WHG: And Alice goes down the rabbit hole...

Time to start a new thread... here's the last one:
WHG's last thread
To bring things up to current:

W and kids move out in 15 days
W has everything she needs, paperwork and agreement wise, to file for D
Kids have been told and we're all working through it

I guess not a lot to say right now...

@Figg: I am grateful I can have an R with SS and SD. I need to remind myself of this though when I get depressed. I also need to remind myself it is a positive. Back in August the R between SS and myself hit an all-time low point. Shortly thereafter came the bomb, then the reading of DR, then self-realization, and then a lot of work to repair my R with SS and SD (but particularly SS). I see SS's drive to join my youth volunteer group as a huge validation of those efforts. I also see my W's support of him and her willingness to have me in their lives as a positive. I don't know that, six months ago, this would have been the case.

And a little journaling...
W is freaking out right now about whether her employer will pay for her schooling this summer. Her whole plan is predicated on this happening. If she can't go back to school then she can't keep her student loans in deferral. If her loans aren't deferred then she's in some serious financial straights. She is not one who deals with anxiety well... so it's going to be a stressful time (as if it isn't already) around here until she gets the news.

S is struggling this week with the D. We're starting to see the sad/frowny/unhappy drawings... they break my heart. The irrational fears are also coming up now... "will the house have furniture?" "I'm scared that mommy won't have money for food for us." "I'm scared there will be big rats in the house." It's just hard to hear your child so scared of something that they shouldn't have to experience in the first place. Right now S is seeing the school counselor every so often for some play therapy.

SD is really struggling but won't talk about it. She's just mad most days and lashing out at people. She refuses to see a counselor but may end up with one anyway, time will tell.

For me... well, I don't know. Good days and bad ones. Can run from happy to devastated in very short time frames. Lots of boxes around the house with stuff getting packed make it hard. Lots of memories being divvied up is hard too.

My W... well, she is what she is and will do what she will do. I have noticed the last few days she keeps wanting to draw me closer. Perhaps the thing I find most ironic is that each of the past three days she's felt the need to tell me her Facebook post at some point in the day. Mind you... she's blocked me from seeing her Facebook updates. So what is the point of blocking someone and then just telling them anyway. I really don't get her.

In all honesty I'm really very sad about the coming move. I still can't quite believe it's happening I guess. I can't believe that I'll wake up on a regular basis without my S in the house, or that SS and SD will effectively no longer live here. There are times I wish it was just done already. That the house was mine and the schedule was in place and all that. But that's the "need for routine and safe space" me talking. The other part of me is still very, very sad.

I need to get back to exercising. I need to find my center again. Since W moved to the basement I've lost my morning exercise routine and it's killing me. I'm looking forward to getting that back. GAL tomorrow night, GAL Saturday... maybe some GAL on Sunday too.

W is freaking out right now about whether her employer will pay for her schooling this summer. Her whole plan is predicated on this happening. If she can't go back to school then she can't keep her student loans in deferral. If her loans aren't deferred then she's in some serious financial straights. She is not one who deals with anxiety well... so it's going to be a stressful time (as if it isn't already) around here until she gets the news.

It seems the your W is often making choices that require some other person or entity to make it happen for her. Wasn't there something about a loan for her deposit on the house she's moving to? And then she expected you to help her move.

Forever the damsel in distress awaiting the knight to ride in and save the day. She may someday appreciate you allowing her to grow-up.

Yes LA... many of her plans to require an external actor. I have to admit it takes all of my strength not to problem-solve for her, but I am resisting. She admitted her back-up plan, should the funding not come through, is that she will have to work a lot of overtime. This would essentially mean she'd have to work pretty much every weekend.

I wanted to say that this isn't necessary. I wanted to point out that the last six months that with what we've been savings/retiring debt we certainly would have enough to pay for her education. That really, the additional housing costs alone would pay most of her tuition.

But I didn't. I just shut up. I simply said that she did her best on the interview and that's all anyone can do. That I was proud of her for trying and going after it, no matter what the outcome. And that if it doesn't happen, that she'll be able to figure out the next steps. And then I went upstairs and left her to herself.

Realized this morning that it's two weeks now until move out. I am taking son to a two-night overnight at a waterpark resort about an hour away the weekend she's moving. I don't want to be anywhere around and I know I will need something to distract me that weekend so I don't dwell on it. But my head keeps running through that when my W leaves for work that Friday that'll be the last time she "lives" in the house. Once we leave for the waterpark I'll come home to an empty house.

And yes, I know, my W hasn't been "living" in our house for a long time now. But my kids have been. And they won't be. And that hurts.

Just popping in... it was a busy weekend. It's so hard right now to not say something, do something towards my W. To just keep being part of the process and not screaming to stop. But I'm not. I do believe I need to be more positive in my attitude towards the move, though I will admit that is hard to do.

GAL'd Friday night with friends from church. Haven't had the courage yet to tell them about things. Took S to his wrestling tournament on Saturday. He got a trophy and was so proud. It made me sad though when we got home and he was crestfallen that his mom wasn't home nor made the tourney. I had thought maybe she would make it, she had been asking questions about the drive and times, but in the end she got home too late/early in the morning to get up and get there and keep her commitments to her friends.

I've been keeping my distance for the most part from my W. As part of the agreement on splitting assets I am providing her money for her half of what she's leaving in the house. I don't have the cash so I'm buying things as she asks on lines of credit I have. Already she is running out of our agreed upon amount. Last night she started hinting that she would need more. I calmly reminded her of our agreement, gave her the updated spreadsheet, and said I would do what we agreed on.

W went all weekend without so much as a call or text to me. Yet today she is sick so I get three texts and two calls because she wanted to know if I could come home early so she didn't have to take care of the kids after school. Yet, she was supposed to work today so that's already set up to happen. I simply texted her back that child care was already arranged since it is "my day" due to her working, and I hope she felt better.

I've also noticed twice in the past two weeks I've saved her from being late for work. I haven't meant to... I've simply confirmed something for the next day to which her reply is "I don't work at X time, I work at Y time." I tell her I got my times from the schedule she gave me... she goes and looks and realizes she had her schedule down wrong. I wonder how this will work when she's alone. I'm not intending to save her from herself... it just happens.

Last night I got a good night from her. When she has been around she's being very friendly. We had this weird word usage thing where she called the rental house, "our house", I mean "yours and mine"... I mean "my house"... that was strange. But all in all these are observations. I'm not hanging on them. Over the weekend I let my son call my W once, after the tourney, because he wanted to tell her about his trophy. I didn't send her pics, videos or anything. I posted them to Facebook and later told her they were there if she wanted to see them.

And she keeps telling me about her Facebook posts. I just don't understand her. But I'm having more fun at least. And I still don't want the move to happen, but part of me wants it just happen already so I can get my house back without boxes and stuff everywhere.

WHG, I think you're doing reasonably well, all things considered.

It's sad to hear your W didn't make it for your S's tournament.

I understand the part about her moving out - it does cut both ways unfortunately.

I'm glad to see you're GAL'ing and having fun. That's very important!

Before my W moved out, I had a few days where I was ready for her to go. Then on the day of, I cracked in a bad way. It was a pretty ugly emotional scene. My C suggested that I not be there when she left, and I heeded that, but it didn't make leaving any easier.

At first, the empty house really bothered me, but it was kind of cathartic in a way - I could do what I want and not have to wonder what sort of reaction or lack there of I'd get (or not). I may be romanticizing it, in retrospect.

When she moved back in, I was happy to have my family under one roof again, but it also threw a wrench in my GAL'ing because S was now around all the time instead of just half the time. Like JB says, it cuts both ways. There are pros and cons to both sides, just do your best to MAKE the best of it.

Good luck, WHG. Been following you for a while, my heart goes out to you and this rabbit hole.

Originally Posted By: tenbusrider

I could do what I want and not have to wonder what sort of reaction or lack there of I'd get (or not).

I've actually allowed myself to look forward to this silver lining, and the time apart to grow. And also to restore some measure of black ink ot the balance books after her 7-9 month spending spree.

That being said, I do hope she'll be back!!

Quote:

Before my W moved out, I had a few days where I was ready for her to go

I have that moment at least three to four times a day. I know nothing will change in the immediate, so let's just get this over with, won't we? The boxes, the packing, the conversations between my W and the kids about what color to paint a room and so on is very wearing. I am ready for that part to be over with.

Quote:

Then on the day of, I cracked in a bad way. It was a pretty ugly emotional scene.

I am worried about this, I'll be honest. Not this coming Friday, but the next one will be the last time she "lives" here. She'll leave for work that morning and I'll be home with kids since they don't have school that day. When she leaves for work... that'll be it. When S and I get back from our weekend trip I'll drop him off at the rental house and he'll spend his first night there. And I'll come home to an empty house. I have the next day off from work. My plan is to have breakfast with S at his school, spend some time in his classroom and then go home and start picking up and cleaning the house from the aftermath of the move.

As much as I'd like to say I haven't played that Friday morning through in my head... I have. I want to be strong and confident and stolid. I want to simply tell her good luck in the new place, see you Sunday and do it without a tear or a sniffle. But I can't even type it without that so I don't know how I will do it. And lord help me if she starts crying at all...

Quote:

I've actually allowed myself to look forward to this silver lining

I am too. I'm tired of the eggshells. Tired of constantly feeling like she is judging my words on the assumption I'm trying to guilt her or pursue her. And I'm tired of being disappointed in her. I know... that's judgmental and I'm trying not to me. But it is hard. Last night for example... she comes home from work early. She texts me to let me know. I tell the kids. They get excited. Then she calls me a few minutes later to say she's not sticking around... she's going to another town to meet her BFF and her family for dinner. Kids are crushed. She pops in for 10 minutes to change clothes. While walking around the house she tells me, "I figured I was supposed to work late anyway so the kids wouldn't have seen me, so they're not really out anything." Except for the part where the kids heard that and now feel like crap. It's those moments... and while they are less than they were they are still frequent enough, that make me very disappointed in her. And no, I don't suspect she'll be much better on her own, but at least I won't have to see it or act like it doesn't bother me.

Tonight I got home and my W looks like hell. She is clearly extremely ill right now... so much that I am actually worried about her. I have never seen her look this bad before, and that's not hyperbole. She is running a fever, has terrible cramps and pain. I even cancelled my GAL tonight and told her to go to sleep. I know... I'm caretaking. I'm conscious I shouldn't have done it, but she was having trouble even standing on her own. Would I do this once we are apart? I don't know... maybe... if she was this sick... man is she sick.

My GAL tonight wasn't going to start until 9:30 anyway and I have some early meetings tomorrow morning. I was going to sacrifice for it, but I'll get them next time.

On my phone, so I can't typecast long response, but you need to create good memories for her to remember. Be there for her. No matter what, makebthe last time she sees you not be you a crying,kneeling,sobbing wreck.

Clarification :not exactly good memories, but positive ones. Take steps to protect yourself as well.

Thanks Ten. I'm planning to focus on this is just another step in the process. This is a marathon and while I feel like I've already gone 25 miles the fact is I haven't even hit the first water table.

It won't be the last time she sees me. Heck, on Sunday I'll drop S off. On Tuesday I'll be over there once all the kids are done at my place and is bedtime. And then again on Wed and on Thu. But I need to be positive and happy. I need to embrace this new chapter and live it, not simply put life on hold.

And I do have a lot to be thankful for, even amidst this. In a given week I will,spend more time with my s than my w will and almost as much time with SS and SD as she will. That's not meant to be competitive... Just a demonstration of things. I know lots of guys in similar sitches don't get half of what I am getting.

Hey bro...

I think you need to go easy on yourself here. This is hard stuff.

That Friday morning, you hold your head up high, and you do what NEEDS to be done. Not necessarily what you WANT to do, rather what NEEDS to happen.

We , as the LBS, will never understand fully the "whys" of this. We may never understand how this affects our spouse either. Then again, that isn't part of OUR journey.

I remember that Friday morning too. I had tried to prepare myself for it, and be ready for it. In theory ? It all sounded good. In reality ? It never pans out the way we think it should.

What I had been told was to expect the unexpected as far as what I would feel , and how I would react. It could be far more than I had prepared for, and it could be far less than I had built it up as being.

The advice I got, was to treat this as everything I had learned DBing. To have zero expectations of how I would react. To live in that moment, to FEEL everything around me, and let those emotions wash over me fully, so I could deal with them then, and then release them.

I had words I needed to live up to. IF I really meant what I said, and my words were to really match my actions, then I was to love her enough to let her go.

I can tell you that these things rarely go as "planned". I can tell you that this doesn't mean the end of anything, unless you say it is.

Sometimes, this is the space that the WAS needs in order to think clearly. Sometimes this is what HAS to happen in order to move forward.

When you walk out the door that morning. Try to think about the possibility of what you can gain by this, rather than what is lost.

When you walk back in Sunday, take the time to FEEL every emotion that washes over you. Use that emotion to fuel your energy tank, for down the road.

Make sense ???

Anyone want to take a stab at helping me interpret my W?

Ok.. I know, if I can't make sense of her no one else will... and really this post is just me venting a bit. I'm not truly seeking interpretation because ultimately it doesn't matter. She is what she is and will do what she does. But here is what has me... not upset, not angry... frustrated is maybe the right word.

Some quick background... My W and I inventoried most everything in the house and came to an agreement of the value of those items. Those things that are staying with the house I agreed I would "pay" her 50% of the agreed upon value. Example: five year old couch is $250 so she gets $125. I was pretty liberal with this approach and didn't demand half the value of things she was taking. Why? Eh... it might be $700 or $800 I'd get and not really worth it to me right now. Ok, so, since I don't have the actual cash I agreed to pay for things on my lines of credit which I will pay off in the coming months. Granted we're still married so these are her lines too, but that's a risk she has to take to make this work. Ok, with me so far? So I've been purchasing things she's identified. Why? because I didn't really want to give her my credit passwords or physical cards. I don't think she'd just run up a bill, but I'm not a complete sucker either. And these are lines in my name only... they are only joint because we are in a community property state. But if you run credit reports they only show up on my report.

Ok... so today I pick up a few things she identified. I emailed her to tell her it was done and to tell her some things had arrived. We agreed I'd let her know these things. Here is the email I get back:

"Wow�thanks! ... I appreciate the help immensely and can�t tell you how thankful I am that you are such a wonderful person! So again, thank you."

Really? I haven't done anything with her response. I don't know if I should ignore it, acknowledge it and move on or what. I'm such a wonderful person... aw shucks, thanks. Part of me is glad she said that and part of me really doesn't give much care. And another, darker, part of me says to file this in the "don't listen to most of what they say" because she's just trying to manipulate me by being nice. I hate seeing shadows where shadows may not exist.

"And another, darker, part of me says to file this in the "don't listen to most of what they say" because she's just trying to manipulate me by being nice."

Much ado about nothin! Ignore it!

Yeah... I started typing a response this afternoon and then deleted it. I don't know if I believe she's sincere. And if she is it changes nothing. It does reflect the interactions we've had of late... I think she remains surprised that I am as supportive of the move as I am. And while I really am not supportive of it, there isn't another option really. I could be mopey, sad, angry guy... but that's no fun for anyone including me and especially for the kids. I don't want the kids to fear or feel bad about the move and I can constantly see my S looking to me for cues on how to handle this whole thing. So hold my head up high and keep moving on.

There are fun moments though too... I told W to take the family computer with her. It's old and slow, but certainly good enough for the demands of elementary and middle school research and email. But now I need a desktop for home... so it meant time to go computer shopping. I'm pretty excited waiting for my new Dell beast of a machine to arrive in a couple days. And once the W is out I'm going to redo the game room into the arrangement I've always wanted. So there are some ups in all this.

Wh is it that some days the emotions just sneak up and overwhelm you? I've really been doing pretty good I think of late. Volunteered in S's class this morning and had breakfast with him at school. Stopped at a store to pick up a new suitcoat as my old one is way too big now. Stopped in housewares to look at cookware as I'll need new next week and just lost it. I just wish I could better understand the triggers. Was it spending time at school with S? Shopping alone? The last time I was at this store w and I were buying ourselves an anniversary gift? W's email yesterday? Having to drive past the rental house this morning and seeing her car out front? Maybe it's just all of it... Probably the most down I've been in a long, long time.

Hey WHG, I get it.

I've been S almost a year

and haven't laid eyes on my H since Thanksgiving and I still expect to see his truck in its parking spot when I come home or if a drive by places of significance, I miss him. But, the pain is so much less at this point.

Hang in there, it does get better.

It was a busy weekend. W had to work so I spent the weekend with the kids. It was "her weekend" but this is the last weekend before they move so I was fine with being with the kids, actually I was more than fine I was very happy.

SS is really enjoying the youth group, he's so excited and it really gives us a common ground which is great. I had to leave him at our most recent meeting so I could take a search team in the field (he's not experienced enough yet for the search team). I was worried he'd be turned off by being "stranded" with the other cadets, but just the opposite, he had a blast and is making new friends.

Yesterday I had the kids tag a long to a groundbreaking for a new apartment complex I'm developing. It was also a ribbon-cutting for the village's community kitchen. Great food for free and SD and S spent hours at the craft table. Kids had a blast.

W and I have been negotiating the disposition of lots of little stuff... that gets old but I suppose has to get done. For example her stepdad gave us half a cow for Christmas. That's a lot of meat and when you split houses you have to divvy that up. It suxx.

Everyone is feeling the pressure now. I am... S always asks me to give him a swedish massage after his tubby. Last night he wanted to give me one so I let him do his best

It's crazy how tense I am right now. Kids are all over the map... they're surviving but it doesn't take much to spin them up. W has a hair trigger right now. The landlord hasn't done a list of things he said he would and she's furious. She's also running out of money and panicking.

I'm generally sad right now. It comes and goes, but it's never too far below the surface. This too shall pass. I want this week to hurry up and be over with... I want my house back and boxes not to be everywhere. And then I don't want any of this all at the same time.

S is very excited about the waterpark trip this weekend. SS and SD want to go too... I told them they are welcome but it their weekend with their dad so it's his call. Unfortunately since W filed for increasing his CS by 600% last Friday, and he'll get that news today or tomorrow, I don't think he's going to be big on doing anything nice. But I'm taking them with on Friday since there's no school and then can spend most of the day there with S and I... better than nothing.

Pretty sure it's going to be an emotional moment when I drop them off at their dad's on Friday. That'll be the last time they "live with me" unless something happens long down the road from now.

W admitted two nights ago that she's pretty scared and nervous. SS has told her he's not sure he's going to like this new arrangement. S is sad about missing his dog, and last night asked me to make up a story about a king and queen who get a divorce but the brave night saves them from the dragon, and then they all live happily ever after. Try to do that without tearing up, I dare you.

Most of this week I'm busy during the evenings which will be good. I really don't want to be around as W is stressing out and trying to pack.

On the upside my new computer should arrive tomorrow... my own Valentine's gift to myself.

Just trying to focus on the kids and what they need. I laughed yesterday because W sent me an email with some questions. In it she apologized if she has been rude or curt the past few days, she's just under a lot of stress right now. I wanted to email back that she's not really the only one... and maybe if she looked around she'd notice that everyone is hurting and stressed, but I didn't. I just answered the question.

I have started telling more people now. It's amazing the support I am getting. Granted these folks only see my side, but I try to relay that we both got here. But particularly it's the women who tell me my W is crazy. I tell them she is doing what she feels she needs to do... it's not my place to judge. That's partly what got us here.

On Saturday the kids and I were grocery shopping. I ran down an aisle and when I came back to the cart a woman was talking to the kids. I came up to the cart and it was my W's best friend. This friend has been helping her paint and clean the rental house. As soon as I realized who it was I felt weird... this friend has largely avoided me since the start of things. But she turned and saw me. She gave me a massive and long hug. Then she asked how I was doing and I said I was doing ok. Then she said she's sorry and wishes she knew what [my W] was thinking. I said thanks, but she's doing what she feels she has to. I guess that's become my line now. But I was pretty shocked to get that from her.

Running down the rabbit hole some more.

No it wouldn't be for the right reasons... I know. She needs to do this. I need her to do this at this point. If she stopped now it would be out of fear or panic that she can't do it by herself, that she needs me to save her. That's part of why we're here. She's wanted/needed saving and I'm a rescuer.

I thought it was telling this morning when she was recounting a story to me. Last night she picked up a microwave from a friend. She was telling the friend about how hard this week will be, and how she's most fearful of XH's reaction to the child support issue. As she's recounting the story she says, "and I told [her friend] I'm really scared of [XH's] reaction. After making [me] pay for MY kids for the past six years I finally grew up and I am making him pay his fair share." The emphasis is hers and I thought the words were somewhat telling.

As far as the story... I didn't give him his story. I did have the brave knight [S's] name ride in (on his turtle) and save Queen Mommy from the dragon. But, it turns out, that Queen Mommy kind of liked the dragon's lair without the dragon so she decided to stay there with Princess SD and Prince SS. But the brave night still rode his turtle to Queen Mommy and King Daddy. And sometimes King Daddy visited the lair and sometimes Queen Mommy came to the castle. And that while they lived in two places they still were friends and still ruled their lands fairly and wisely. And most of all the people, and the brave knight, were happy. The End.

Woke up this morning about 3:30 and couldn't fall back asleep... finally did around 4:15. Then had one of those incredibly realistic dreams where you wake up and swear whatever your dreamed happened and it takes a little bit to process that you're in bed and obviously it didn't. The dream was that W and I were in our kitchen. W comes up to me and says she's sorry for everything that's happening. That really this has been a test to see if I could change. That she likes the changes but still has to move out for her own good right now. Then she gives me a long hug and a kiss. S walks in and sees it and gets confused and we explain it all over again to him. I was pretty happy in my dream. And then I woke up.

I guess that's the payback for actually being able to fall back asleep and getting another two hours. Totally threw off my morning though.

However, W did come upstairs this morning and had an unusual conversation. W and I share a love of heart-shaped Gobstoppers. You can keep your round ones, but the heart shaped ones... they're where it's at! But finding them is near impossible. W mentioned that a friend told her they had some at a store about 30 minutes from us. Yesterday I was in that town for work and stopped in. I bought four bags. I got home and told her if she wanted two of the bags she was welcome to them. She was giddy. Then she went over to her girlfriend's house.

So this morning she comes upstairs and we're discussing the kids' schedule today. She tells me that her friend told her she needs to tell me that she is thankful for buying the candy and really, just for having me. That soon to be XH's don't do nice things like that nor do they treat their wives the way I am treating my W. They don't give them space, they don't simply let them leave without a fight, and they don't try to make it as vicious and nasty as possible.

So that's what my W came up to say. That if she hasn't said it, she is thankful. "I told [her friend] that while T and I may never be in love again he's probably always going to be my greatest friend."

Of course I really don't want to be her greatest friend... I'd like to her H someday again. And I don't know if I'm ok with simply being a great friend. At the same time I'm pretty sure the kids do better if we good friends than if we're "typical ex's".

Yesterday W got a call from her XH after he got his notice of the child support revision hearing. That's the example of the other way the ex relationship can go. Maybe that's what triggered this convo... I don't know.

I told her that I am her friend and consider her my friend, and that in the end I just want us to do what's right by the kids most of all. That I'm keeping my focus on them first and foremost.

Tough day. Started off with coming across some information that leads me to believe W's been sleeping around with a number of different guys. No one OM... not even an R... just random sex or FWB type thing. I feel detached but it still hurt. Had random images pop up in my head all day and had to work to banish them to a far corner. Better now. Frankly if I was in her shoes I don't that I wouldn't do the same. Don't feel married, don't feel attached... haven't ML in months... yeah, I can see it.

Tonight it the last night SS and SD will "live" here. No school Friday so they are going to their dad's tomorrow night and spending the weekend there. Come Sunday they'll go to W's house. They'll still come over here but won't live here. That's been extremely hard. Just cried the whole way back from the city tonight. S caught me crying and told me he is sorry I'm sad. Then he asked if I could make him his "calendars".

When we broke the news to the kids I had made up a color-coded calendar with mom days and dad days on it so he had a visual reference. I told him when the time came I'd make a real one for him... and he's holding me to it

So that just brought on more sorrow.

Got home and SS and SD got back from dinner with their dad. Got our new computer set up (using it now.. it's sweet!). Set up user accounts on it... one for me, one for SS, one for SD, one for S... guess W will have to use the "Guest" account. She doesn't live here any more.

Came time to put SD and S to bed. I went to sing to SD and she started crying really hard. She told me she doesn't want to move, she doesn't want to leave. She's going to miss me and miss her house. I just held her... I cried a little too I'll admit. I told her I loved her and always will. Things will change but I'll still be here. Then I just held her until she calmed down. I gave her a kiss goodnight and told her I loved her.

Went to my room and had a good cry after that. I'm going to miss them so much

Afterwards went downstairs and helped SS prep for his first test for our youth group. He passed and was pretty proud of himself.

And W just got home. I'm sad she's moving but I'm glad too. Just seeing her now brings back all those mental images... and I just don't want that every day anymore.

I'll posit more after the weekend on where I feel things are at. Where things were and have come to. The good and the bad. I'm struggling to be honest. I don't want her back right now. But I'm quite sure much of that is just anger and pain talking.

WHG - so sorry things are as tough as they are for you and the kids. But you know that you are doing the right thing by being there for them. In time, they will come to appreciate it and you for being an important part of their lives.

Your sadness made me think of the song from the musical Annie:

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
Bet your bottom dollar
That tomorrow
There'll be sun!

Just thinkin' about
Tomorrow
Clears away the cobwebs,
And the sorrow
'Til there's none!

When I'm stuck a day
That's gray,
And lonely,
I just stick out my chin
And Grin,
And Say,
Oh!

The sun'll come out
Tomorrow
So ya gotta hang on
'Til tomorrow
Come what may
Tomorrow! Tomorrow!
I love ya Tomorrow!
You're always
A day
A way!

Keep your chin up, WHG. The sun WILL come out tomorrow!!

Head Up my friend I know where your at and where your going, take care of yourself and your kids, they will need it. I just found out my wife is having a EA today, nice huh!

Just sent SS and SD off to school for the last time. Feels like my heart just got ripped out of my chest. This is by far worse than the bomb day, OM Discovery day, or any of the others. Maybe only eclipsed by the day my Dad passed away. And it's far worse than I thought it would be. Not quite sure how I'll function today.

Feeling for you whg, I know its extremely tough right now.

I feel only time is going to help. When my w moved out and I had to take my kids to her house for the 1st time i thought my heart was going to explode and had thoughts that I wouldn't be able to do certain things with or for my kids again. (I realize your referring to your step-kids)

You may or may not be able to send them off to school again but you will have other and different opportunities with them. It's up to you to figure out and define what those things will be but you are a great person and I know you will find a way to stay in their lives however you are able.

Best!!

Well... she's pretty much out. W is staying at her new house tonight. I don't suspect she'll spend another night here barring some reconciliation.

I feel lost. I feel relieved I guess, but lost too. I keep seeing headlights go by and expect them to be her pulling in. I know they're not, just programmed I guess.

I ended up seeing her and her friends tonight. I came home after my board meeting. I assumed she was done for the day but no... they came back to get another load. That was awkward but not terrible. I like the two friends who were with. We actually all talked and joked. S is at grandma's tonight so it's just me here alone tonight. That's pretty uncool on the first night... should've planned that better. At the same time at least there's no one here to see the tears.

Just suxx. I know good things have come of this process. I just wish we could've gotten there without this.

Tomorrow I take S to a hotel and waterpark for two days. That will be good. I need to get away from here for a bit.

It does feel more like my house now, even though there are still lots of boxes and stuff here. By Sunday that will be gone.

Guess it's time to turn in. I'm exhausted and not tired all at the same time. I wish her luck. I wish me luck too.

Get some rest bro. Wishing you all the luck in the world...

It does get better. You may be surprised after the initial shock wears off at just how much better you feel. A lot of the tension will be gone and you can really work on you.

Been reading your thread, and wanted to say my thoughts are with you WHG. You've been so strong... and you've handled this with such respect and strength..

Hi WHG, been thinking about you and praying for you! I think you are handling your sitch remarkably well.

Those kids are really lucky to have you!

((()))

And so it goes... pretty heartbroken right now. W just picked up S for his first overnight at her house. Barely kept it together saying good bye him. Got inside the house and just collapsed on the stairs and wept for a long time.

I know I have to validate this for my W's needs. Give her space. Let her do her thing. If it is meant to be she'll come back. And I KNOW that, but right now it just all seems to damn stupid. I'm so angry and bitter right now, but I just keep hiding it. PMA when she sees me, right? Tomorrow morning I'm busy at my son's school volunteering (it's a surprise for him). W will be here cleaning up the post-move out mess. I mean really...? That was her offer, not my request. And considering she left enough mess I'm not inclined to say no, but who does that? Maybe it's just her guilt and this is a way to assuage that... I don't know.

I feel like half of me is missing. I've almost forgotten how to not be married. I still love her and that makes all this that much harder.

Went all weekend with out communicating with her except for S calling her to say goodnight, and then I had him dial and hang up. I won't be here tomorrow. I need to move on with my life, but it will be hard. I miss her, the stepkids, my S sooo much.

I think part of this pain comes from a part of me seeing/hoping all this is temporary. That some day she'll find her way back. But moments like this drive home the reality and it just hurts.

This isn't to say that DR is failure. Good things have come from this. I remember how my W and I were interacting when she first dropped the bomb. Things are infinitely better now than then. We talk, we can laugh, we still communicate and share stories. We are still friends. That wasn't where we were six months ago.

And the self-realization that came with DR helped me save my R with my SS. That relationship is so much better than it was. I don't know that I would've had the wake-up call without DR, and frankly the added stress and anger of this may have completely destroyed anything with SS had I not had a realization.

My circle of friends has gotten better... though still a long, long way to go there.

My relationship with my S has also grown, but that's more due to GAL. We get out now and do things... this wasn't happening before DR/the bomb. On Friday we stopped into a pottery shop to pick up some things all the kids made for the new house. When we walked in there was his teacher with her family. She told him they were there because he told her all about it. All weekend he talked about how proud he was that his teacher went there and to another place on his recommendation.

So those are all good things. I just wish it hadn't gone down this way. I wish wasn't sitting in this big house all alone. I wish my heart was shredded right now.

Hey man, I know you are hurting and I'm sorry. the initial sting will pass after a few days and then you can really get down to DB'ng like crazy. See you can create all kinds of mystery through your GAL and don't for a second think that your W won't be interest, cause she will.

Sad as your sitch is, there was some good that has come out of it as you mention, (i.e. improved relationship with SS and strengthening relationship with the other kids, S and SD). Those are all positives. And they will only get better with time as the kids begin to contrast life with Dad vs. life with Mom.

Hang in there! Looking forward to you getting back to the boards after your self imposed hiatus.

So sorry for your pain, WHG. Sometimes to feel deeply succks but imagine that same depth of emotion, only it's love. You can have that.

There's a poem by Mary Oliver that I often turn to, it's called The Journey. It's easily found through google.

(((((WHG)))))

Sorry for your pain. I'd suggest going dark. Your focus needs to be on YOU and taking care of yourself.

Doing better in increments... still suxx a lot but adjusting.

To catch things up... (and soften the 2x4 that I'm sure someone is going to want to deliver) the weekend was good. Took S to a waterpark resort and had a lot of fun. He was one tired boy every night

And having just him I was free to do more. We hit the buffet, the craft room, the toy store, and of course the waterpark. I had originally set a goal of not thinking about W moving out at all while with my S. That turned out to be unrealistic. So I settled for working hard to be in the present and going with the flow. It worked... I found myself sad and crying a few times, but very limited. The drive home Sunday though was tough.

Sunday was hard. Came home to a empty house and lots of missing stuff. SD's room was completely empty which was crushing. W stopped by and picked up S. SS and SD asked to come inside and give me a hug and say hi so we all hung out for a little bit. Then they left and I was really, really crushed. Cleaned a little, surfed the net, cried a lot and went to bed.

This morning I got up and couldn't start my car... so I walked over to S's school to surprise him. That didn't work out quite as hoped because I hadn't packed S's hat and gloves so W called and so forth. Anyway, that got worked out and I had breakfast with S at school and then volunteered in his classroom for most of the morning. That was a lot of fun and S loves it.

Now we're progressing towards the 2x4 part... I know, go dark. I suck at it so far. W called and wanted to stop at the house. She still has some stuff here and wanted to clean up from the aftermath of the move. I was halfway to the gas station (car wouldn't start as it was out of gas... first time that's ever happened to me... guess my head's not quite in the game). She offered to come pick me up. I told her no and that I was fine. She came anyway (we're a small town... there's only two gas stations and one was burned down last month). So I got in and she ran me back.

(Nope.. not at 2x4 land yet). Now... a few weeks back W asked if I would install a new faucet and ceiling fan in her rental house if she bought them. I said yes. Why? I have no idea. But I did so when she asked me again I felt obligated to follow-through. Again, did I have to? No. I'm a sucker, I'll admit it.

So I spent the afternoon over at her house, with her, installing the faucet and ceiling fan. As has been the story things were fine. We talked, laughed, and enjoyed each other. We got finished just in time for S to go to wrestling so I took him. Got back with him and W asked if I wanted to have dinner with them. I said sure. Then by the time dinner was done it was bedtime for S and SD, so W asked if I wanted to stick around and tuck them in. Again I said yes.

So that's where I quite sure I erred. I really don't need to be over there doing that. I had committed to it, and lord knows it doesn't create mystery. There were odd moments too. At one point I was really wrestling with the fan install and she came and helped. We got done and I put my hand out (for the screwdriver) and she put her hand in mind and we held hands for a little bit. Then she posted this on my Facebook wall (so everyone can see it if they look):

Quote:

Thank you soooo much for the work you did today. We're thankful to have you! It means the world to us! <me>-1 ceiling fan-0....ceiling fan blades may have a point on you though;)

There was even some sexual/suggestive inside jokes from her and back and forth. Then she launched into how absolutely horrible the weekend was with her crappy landlord, no one showing up to help with the move other than her stepdad, and all the money it takes to set things up in a new house. After I sang songs to SD and S, I took off.

So yes... that's the opposite of going dark, I know. I need to go dark, but I guess that will need to start tomorrow because today certainly wasn't a dark day.

Tomorrow I have all the kids after school until she gets home from work at 9:30. My plan is to simply give her "report" on the kids when she gets home and then walk out. Not listen about her day, not listen about her stress or how she feels. Just get out. We'll see if I actually can do that I guess.

WHG I tear up when I read your post when they left. No 2x4 from me. I dunno but would she drive u to a doctors appointment if u needed it? I think so. Going dark detaching I think are for u to protect yourself from further hurt. That is how I see it. I still pay all the bills. Should I get W off the phone bills internet health care AAA? What will she learn from that. Life is a better teacher than I am. Until I am told to stop I will continue. Do the kiddos benefit from a new faucet? If u guys don't reconcile there will be a time when u are no longer available and she will have care on her own.

Hey WHG - I think you need to cut yourself some slack. This is a transition and if your actions make life just a little more bearable for you, your W and the kids, then do it. You don't have to be perfect at this...yet

That will come with time.

In the meantime, might I suggest you take a look at this thread: Successful Divorce Buster

There are 9 pages initially and then a link to the next thread in the series. You should book mark it and read a few pages each day until you get to the punch line. There is so much good information in there about how this person eventually and successfully busted his D.

Good luck, WHG! We're all in this together and will support you on this next leg of your journey.

Do what works.

Journaling... Today was better than yesterday, but I guess that's the norm. Funny how one thing can just throw it all crazy though. At one point today I was looking in the closets for some bedding and found the plaster cast we made of my wife's belly when she was pregnant with our S. It got left behind in the move, though I'm guessing that wasn't intentional as it was stored up high. Finding it brought back all the pain and tears. Later an email from my S's teacher had me sideways as S asked to talk to her today and told her he doesn't like the divorce and misses daddy when he's at mommy's house and misses mommy when he's at daddy's house. But all in all it was a better day.

Tonight I had all the kids at my house from after school to bedtime. Our dog had to go to the vet today as well, thankfully it turned out to be a minor problem easy fixed. I don't particularly like our dog but found myself emotional when alone in the vet's office. All I could think of was that if something happened to the dog it would be just one more failure for my kids.

Kids and I had fun tonight. We made supper together and did homework. Kids loved my spaghetti sauce. I make it from just a tomato puree base and go from there. W never liked it so I stopped making it. But she doesn't live here anymore so it's back. SS asked why we hadn't had it in so long... so I told him mom never cared for it so out of respect for her I stopped making it. But she's not here and we all love it, so it's back!

A little bit before bedtime we all went over to my W's house. I put SD and S to bed and hung out with SS while he read. Once SS went to bed I read and surfed the net. I will admit that it was a bit surreal sitting in my W's living room all by myself after SS went to bed. Like a guest in one's own house sort of...

I think I did ok tonight. Before heading over to W's house I changed out of my scrubby clothes and put on something nice and made sure to have cologne on. She got home and I gathered my things. Met her in the kitchen and gave her the list of updates and info she needed from the day and about tomorrow. She started talking about work and a challenging patient. I listened for a little bit then said that I had to leave. I told her goodbye and walked out the door.

I didn't even cry walking out or once in the van. I drove home, fixed my dryer, did some laundry, boxed up her and the kids' clothes from the laundry and now I'm on here.

Before I go... one highlight from tonight was that SS asked me if I would be willing to take him and some of his friends to the opening of Hunger Games when it comes out next month. I asked my W tonight if that would be ok (it would be on her weekend). She was stunned. First she was surprised that SS wanted to go with his friends. Then she was floored that he asked me and not her to take him. And it was cute how he asked me... he built up all this courage but tried to play it cool. I told him I'd love to take him and his buddies to the opening. I don't know if it affected my W at all, but I do know she was very surprised by him asking me. And lord knows that seven months ago that is the last thing my SS would've been asking of me.

Wow, the invitation from the SS is huge.

And you glossed over your S going to the teacher. I know it hurt but it is so great that he knows what he's feeling and is reaching out to people for help and understanding. A lot of that comes from your actions and examples. I know you will continue to nurture that.

2TP, thanks for the link to Busto's thread. I haven't gotten through all of it but it's a good read.

Spent today replacing stuff that was taken out of the house. New bed for SD, new headboard, dresser, nightstand. It's a guest room and her room at the same time. It's where she'll sleep on nights she's here between bedtime and mom getting them.

Drama today with W's XH. He's mad that the kids are spending time with me and not him on nights that W works. He wants to watch them when she works. That arrangement would make me pretty sad, but I don't have much say in the matter. We'll see if it happens though. XH says that he wants to get them, though overnight wouldn't really work, but then tonight he tells the kids that there may not be many more Wednesday visits because he's not going to be able to afford the gas when he has to pay more child support. SS and SD both came home upset by that. If he wants to watch them he'll have to make that trip three to four times a week. Really? He's complaining about one for goodness sake. All I could do was tell them I'm sorry for how they are feeling, and that things will work out.

Helped W out today by going over to her place to receive her new washing machine. Turns out the supply faucets both leak. Simply told her about the issue and left it, no advice or guidance. She asked me if I could fix it and I told her it's beyond my plumbing pay grade (which is a very low grade) and something I'm not comfortable doing. She'll either have to live with the very slow leak or get the landlord to replace. She's managed to piss off the landlord already so she's afraid to go that route.

SD was touched that I put so much effort into fixing up a spot for her in my house. That felt good.

W just picked up the kids. We talked for a little bit about the XH and kids thing. I cried when they left. I love seeing the kids so much, but separating every day is really hard. I don't know if this arrangement is the right decision, but it's also very early to decide anything.

Over the past few months I've told myself that I would wait a year before trying to date anyone, etc... but that seems so damn long to me right now. Not that I'm eager to get out of the gate right now, but a year seems really long. So I've decided I'll wait three months and then re-evaluate how I feel. That doesn't mean in three months I'm back in... it just means in three months I'll take my temperature. It allows me to stop fixating on it right now. I know that right now it's fear of being alone for the rest of my life that's driving these thoughts. So 90 days I'll take a look and see. Who knows what the world will look like. If you'd asked me in June of last year I never would've said my marriage would be falling apart come September.

don't rush into dating

enjoy the alone time

get to know yourself

get to know your new role in your own life

you have to be content and happy alone before you begin to think about being with someone else

and you have to be ready to say goodbye to your family forever in order to be ready to date anyone else

Thanks Figg... especially that last sentence, I hadn't thought of it that way.

Well today really sucked. I'm not good at this dark thing. I still feel completely lost at sea, striking out in any direction I can.

Worst part of the day was an unsuspected curveball from W's XH. W had filed for increasing his CS by $500/month. In her defense it is his legally prescribed share that he's never paid. Though she figured he'd be mad but just pay it and be an a$$. Nope. He came at her today with a proposal that they share the kids 50/50, and he doesn't pay her any child support. So now he'll have SS and SD on the nights I have my S.

This means instead of seeing SS and SD 5-6 afternoons/evening out of every 14, I'll see them 2-3. I'll still see SS at least every other Saturday for our volunteer group. But overall I'm pretty heartbroken. I had to leave the conference I was at today for a while because I simply broke down when I got the news via email. At one point I needed to apologize to my W for the tone of my email... I'm just so hurt and angry right now. I'm odd man out... and best I can tell I'm the only one who seems to have the fundamental interests of the kids at the root of my actions. W is pulling them all over because "she needs to do this." XH is doing this to avoid paying child support. Yes, I'm sure part of my motivation is to assuage my own guilt over how this is affecting them, but it is also because I love them and they love me too. But since I have no real standing I get to sit on the sideline. W promised that she will do whatever she has to so I see them at least twice a week. Great. That's an awesome consolation prize.

So that made the day suck. This morning W called me as I was on my way to work. I don't know why I even answered other than I'm programmed to answer when my W calls. I didn't even think about it... it's just automatic. I had gotten much better at not answering near the end of her time in the house, so I'm not sure why I've suddenly regressed so badly. This marks the third morning in a row she's called me (in my defense the first morning I thought it was my son calling and yesterday morning I was asleep when she called and I can't see jack without my glasses). While the last two morning calls came under a pretext of some kid issue (and then went on to a longer discussion about how hard it is to get three kids ready for school) this morning's call was simply to vent about her XH. She even said that... "I'm just calling because I need to vent". Ummm, ok. Since I had already answered I listened and validated. Then after a bit I excused myself and ended the call.

A little later today she emailed me and asked me if I could take the kids on her next weekend with them. Her friends are hosting a music festival at their new restaurant and she wants to go. I'm sure "crush guy" will be there plus some of her FWB guys. And even if they weren't, it's her weekend. Thankfully I didn't have to decide - I had already committed to an out-of-town overnight event so it was very easy to say no. In fact SS is going with me to the event. Then my W asked if my mom could do it... I didn't even check, I just told my W that my mom couldn't either. She was curt and grumpy saying that she'll have to figure something out I guess. Guess you will.

So it was a hard day. This going dark thing is hard. Especially as raw as I am right now. I keep expecting W to call and say she was crazy, that she wants to come home. I know that won't happen but it's the crazy voice that sits in my head.

W just left after picking up SS and SD after work from my house. She asked if I could get kids from school tomorrow as she has to get a bikini wax done. Nope. Seriously? Then as she was leaving she said she'd be home in the evening and that I could call her and "we could talk about things." I don't think I'll be making that call. She's welcome to call me... though not sure if I'll answer.

Heart-breaking moment from today came as my SS and I were discussing the new arrangements where he will be at his dad's more. SS's observations was this... "[Me] do you think he's doing this because he wants to see us more, or because he just doesn't want to pay mom child support?"

Darn observant kids. I could only reply that answering that question requires me to know what his dad is thinking and I don't. That usually there isn't one answer to a question, but lots of answers that all play a role.

But what it must feel like to be a child support avoidance strategy. And it's all so frustratin, but it's the dance we're doing.

WHG - I think as bad as things are, you are doing the best you can, all things considered. Going dark is probably going to be the hardest. But it will get easier as time goes on.

When you talk about your W calling you to vent and asking for favors and other ridiculous stuff so she can do selfish things (i.e. party's and bikini waxes) I can't help but remember something you wrote several weeks ago abut your W's former H.

Something about when her car broke down, how he came to help her because he was in denial about the demise of their R and how your W sort of laughed at his desperation.

Don't let your W trap you into that type of behavior. Your W needs to realize that she has made her bed and needs to lie in it.

I am actually feeling anger towards your W's behavior! Is that rational?

Anyway, keep reading through Busto's thread and see the tactic he deployed when it came to managing his W's cake eating and how he set certain boundaries that ultimately led them to reconcile.

Originally Posted By: workinghardguy

She asked if I could get kids from school tomorrow as she has to get a bikini wax done. Nope. Seriously?

Good. You are not the on call babysitter, you're their father.

Quote:

Then as she was leaving she said she'd be home in the evening and that I could call her and "we could talk about things." I don't think I'll be making that call. She's welcome to call me... though not sure if I'll answer.

Start making more choices like this, making things with her on your terms. Be busy, busy, busy. I know it's hard to go completely dark with children involved, but, you can still do it. You can ask her to contact you ONLY if it is about the kids or an emergency. Tell her you are super busy, that you have things to do! Go dark and see what happens. She's very reliant upon you and seems to have some things worked out to her advantage.

Forgot to mention, my H didn't truly respond to me until I projected myself as busy, very preoccupied, happy, uninterested in him, and gone often. Become unavailable and often.

S is struggling with all this right now. This morning he asked to talk to mom before school and to talk to his big brother. So I taught him how to use he phone to call mom so he could do it without my involvement.

Last night as I was tucking him in he may have said the most accurate statement ever..., "Daddy, divorces are no fun at all.".

Last night I was mulling over asking my W if she would be ok with me providing cell phones to SS and SD. I would pick up the cost and plans. But it's about the only way I can think of maintaining frequent contact with them, even if by text message, especially now that they'll be at their dad's place half of the time

Normally I wouldn't seek my w's permission, but since they're not my kids I feel it's appropriate to ask first.

I wouldn't...kids that young can't be expected to be super responsible with cellphones and neither your wife nor her ex husband can be trusted with them

maybe good old fashioned snail mail pre-addressed postcards with stamps and you make a point of sending one a week to them at their moms...get some made up that are pictures of you all having a good time or places you have been or places you want to go or things they like or funny animals etc...then they can decorate their rooms with them too

we did this with Cori's daughter when she moved back in with her mom...we made one of those corkboard things that are covered with fabric and then send her letters every week. We also bought her her own stationary (which she thought was pretty cool) and encouraged her to send us letters etc (all pre-stamped)

I also would not encourage your son to call his mom etc on nights he is with you...

I understand it is new but it also smacks of wallowing
and
the longer that sentiment lasts, the longer it feels that way

it is sad but there are also fun and good things and it is OK to focus on those too...

let her miss him those nights...she chose that

you are not the babysitter
your mom is not her babysitter

she has to find those on her own now

Thanks for the idea Figg... it actually jarred loose an idea I had in my head a while back about actually writing the kids letters and mailing them. I think it was around Valentine's Day when I saw how excited they were to get cards in the mail from my mom and at the same time heard a report on the demise of postal mail and old fashioned letter writing. I'm just a tech guy so my first thought goes to that. But I like the letter idea better (and it's way cheaper!

)

I don't encourage my S to call. I only have him call if he asks to, at least for now. I suspect as he adapts that will trail off. Most nights she calls, and I don't feel I should impede that.

I know I'm not her babysitter, nor is my mom. The pact I've made with myself is that I will only take the kids on my terms. For example, I'm going out of town for a week-long work trip on Monday. This weekend is S's weekend with my W. I asked my W if it would be ok if I took all the kids for a while on mid-afternoon Sunday until bedtime. We're going to go swimming, go out to dinner, and then S will spend the night at my house so I can take him to school in the morning. She was agreeable to it. She then said I could take them Saturday and Sunday if I wanted so she could unpack more. Nope... I have plans Saturday. Well, how about take S with you and he can spend time with grandma when you and SS go to our volunteer group? Nope. Told my mom it's not my weekend so she made other plans.

I'll tell you what will drive you crazy... sitting here trying not to think about what your family is doing. Wondering if your W is starting to feel your absence. Knowing full well you feel hers. Wanting to do something to trigger her thoughts of you so you know she will feel it.

And knowing that you can't and shouldn't do anything about it except live your own life.

It's like you know what you should do even though it's not fun to do it. I'm sure it gets better. Right now though it just plain suxx.

...but you know it is going to get better as you make a life for yourself independent of your WAS. And as you are doing this, the dynamic of your R will change and maybe, just maybe......

but no guarantees....

I don't quite know how to word this, without it coming across wrong.

What would your W do, if you suddenly said... "Hey, got a change in plan, I have to be at xyz, tomorrow night, therefore, can't take the kiddos, see them on my next scheduled time."

What I'm trying to say here is, she has every thing worked out to her advantage. She has her nights out set, her times, her life all planned out because she CAN.

She is in constant contact with you, and knows that she can be when she wants to be. She's comfortable, and riding this on her terms. It seems that your terms, connect with and surround her terms. I realize you guys must work together for the kids, I'm just talking about things outside of this.

I hope I didn't come across as rude, I'm just saying this from what I observe. I know that only a percentage of things that go on, go in a post around here, so I'm sorry if I'm wrong. I've BTDT with my first XH. It was really tough.

2thepoint, I guess that is what I was trying to say. She needs to see him as an autonomous, independent, free guy out there who is embracing his new life and enjoying it. Act as if. I'm not saying this is simple, it is not. This is how DB-ing worked for me, in the sense that I started to act as if, i'm free, i'm independent, i'm coming and going on my terms, I don't schedule everything around my H's schedule.....I can be happy without him, I can go on. I said "Act as if" because inside I was totally a wreck and in the worst pain ever. He started to miss me, when I made myself unavailable.

The key word being unavailable. Unavailable to text, to email, to anything that did not concern our child we have together. I did not set my schedule, to necessarily make his life easy either. I popped up a few times here and there challenging his "alone times". The way I saw it is this.... if he was planning on leaving me, he'd have to make time for his D anyway, may as well get on with it and let me go on with my life. I don't know if that makes sense but all of these tactics of being unavailable and the feeling that I was shaking loose from him, made him start to open his eyes.

WHG,

Do everything you possibly can to give W more space than she wants. You made excuses not to do it while she was still at home. The best thing you can do for yourself and your son is to start doing it now.

Well the weekend has been pretty hard to be honest. On Friday I finally had another IC appointment. It was good... we discussed a lot. I'm struggling right now because so much of who I am is tied up in being a father and a husband. And I know, "I'm always a father" but when your kids are somewhere else that's like saying a baseball player is a baseball player in the off-season. Sure he is, but he's not playing.

I miss my kids so much it's terrible. Friday night I called my W's house to talk to them. It's frustrating because I want to give my W space, but then she doesn't let me. I called the "house phone" which she specifically set up so I could call the kids without bothering her. Who answers? My W. All the kids were right there. She could've had them answer it, she's done it in the past. But no she answers.. I wasn't actually prepared for a convo with her. She asked if I wanted to talk to the kids (um.. yes, hence I'm calling their phone) and that she had to go do something but it would only take a few minutes and then we could talk when I'm done with kids.

So I talk to the kids. Get done and she's not back. SS asks me if he should go find her and I say no, tell him I love him and will see him in the morning and then hang up. Then I got guilty (this is where I still suck at this)... so I text my W saying I had to go but was it something important about the kids that she wanted to discuss. She texts back no, and so I don't respond or call back.

Yesterday I picked up SS for our volunteer thing. Saw W briefly as I went in to help SS put on his uniform for the first time. Gave me a chance to give SD and S some hugs and kisses briefly. S gave me so many while telling me, "Wait Daddy I have to give you extra because I miss giving you them so much!" Have I mentioned how much I hate this sitch?

Took SS to our volunteer gig and dropped him off back home. Didn't go in or see W, just dropped him off and left. He had a great time and got to go on a two-hour airplane flight so he was pretty happy

Spent the rest of yesterday trying to put my house back together. Buying furniture and supplies, etc... Last night I really wanted to call and talk to the kids, but I'm not sure it's good to do every night, so I didn't, especially considering how it went Friday night. I can't give my W space if I'm calling her every day. But I'll be honest that I feel terribly guilty about not calling. Guess we'll see the reaction from the kids.

This morning is church, and this afternoon I pick all the kids up to spend the afternoon and dinner with them, and then have S overnight with me. I'm going out of town for a week so I asked to have some time with them today.

The "Act as if" advice is the part I'm struggling with. I'm not happy, in fact I'm still devastated. I haven't been this depressed in a very long time, if ever. Even when my dad passed it was more of a final relief to a long degenerative illness so while sad there was relief too.

Quote:

..but you know it is going to get better as you make a life for yourself independent of your WAS. And as you are doing this, the dynamic of your R will change and maybe, just maybe......

That's the struggle right now. I really don't want this life. It's like the consolation prize. Academically I know it's my only real option. I can lead and build a worthy life without her since I don't get to decide whether she's part of it or not. But I don't want to emotionally. I don't know when that feeling changes or turns, I just hope it's soon. I'll tell you, I'm so tired of feeling like this.

CT - We have a fairly defined and agreed upon schedule. I'm not sure I want to just violate that agreement without good reason. I know things will never be perfect. This week W is taking S an extra night because I'm out of town. I don't have to do the kids while she's working thing, but then I give up almost any real time with SS and SD. So it's a trade off.

So for now I have to keep "act as if" in the front of my mind. Except for kid-stuff I haven't contacted or talked with W since Thursday. And I don't feel that I've used the limited kid-stuff as a reason to make contact that wasn't necessary.

One item I'd really like some thoughts on....
My brother is having a hard go of it. He got divorced last year. He's been living with his ex-BIL (from his first marriage). His ex-BIL has been separated from his W as well, but now the W is planning to move back in. This leaves my brother without a place to live. He's thinking about moving this way (across the state) towards my mom and his daughter (who lives with our mom and goes to college).

He'd like to room with me in my house. Now... I know that many will say, what's the question? Understand my brother and I are close but not "brotherly close". He was the first foster child my parents took in and eventually adopted. So we don't have the "traditional brotherly" R.

With that said, my first instincts were to welcome him in. Lord knows I have the room and could use some help with the house payment. It would also be a good chance to reconnect with him and get closer. Plus it would be nice to have someone else living here besides just S and I. And he's a good guy, just down on his luck right now.

My first instinct is to say yes to him living here. But I worry what message that sends to my W about coming back. Then I think about why the heck do I care what she thinks? I guess just don't trust my internal voice right now... any input or thoughts are appreciated.

Originally Posted By: workinghardguy

With that said, my first instincts were to welcome him in. Lord knows I have the room and could use some help with the house payment. It would also be a good chance to reconnect with him and get closer. Plus it would be nice to have someone else living here besides just S and I. And he's a good guy, just down on his luck right now.

My first instinct is to say yes to him living here. But I worry what message that sends to my W about coming back. Then I think about why the heck do I care what she thinks? I guess just don't trust my internal voice right now... any input or thoughts are appreciated.

I think you answered your own question

But I completely understand not trusting your own instinct during this sitch. I sometimes feel like I need advice on whether I should wear the black shirt or the pink one (just an example of something silly) b/c I question everything I do lately!! If you let your brother move in- and I think you SHOULD- your W may see this as you creating a life without her, and possible make her stop and think... but she also might not care.

You have to make a decision that is best for *you* and only you. Do you hope that she will have a reaction to this? You probably hope that in some way, she will think "well, I can't come home now b/c he has his brother living with him." But that thought is giving into the assumption that she *wants* to come back, which you haven't had any indication of (I'm sorry if that was painful to read, I didn't like writing it.) If you live with no assumptions and no expectations, than I think your choice is easy. Having your brother around will be good for both of you, you'll have company in the house, a new person to GAL with and a chance to develop that 'brotherly bond' that you said was lacking.

Not sure of your faith/beliefs, but I am a believer that your higher power puts people in our path to help guide up to the next curve in the road... you may not know it when it happens, but down the road you will probably look back and realize it was for the best. I know that there are many examples of this currently in my life and my sitch. Having this opportunity come to you, could be because you both need healing and for what ever reason, you too have the capacity to help each other right now to get onto the next step in your life.

Heck, if he moves in and someday your W mentions 'not being able to move back in' than at least you'll know that she's considered it! Just b/c he moves in now, doesn't mean it's permanent. Perhaps he just needs a few months to get his feet back under him.... and since you area wise DBer, you can share this information with him to get him there.

Perhaps you'll find your answer in a song or message today at church

Quote:

Do you hope that she will have a reaction to this?

Nope. That actually hadn't entered my mind. My first thought was that family helps family. Second was that we're both BITSs (literally!) so it might be good for both of us. Third was it would be good for my GAL. Only after all that did I think about would it send a message I don't want sent to my W.

Quote:

But that thought is giving into the assumption that she *wants* to come back, which you haven't had any indication of

Wasn't hard to read, in fact it was good. I think that's one of the things I'm struggling with right now. Earlier in the week (Mon, Tue) we had a lot of interaction. During those times I listened to a lot of unhappiness from her:

Moving was "absolutely horrible". No one showed up to help except her stepdad.
She hates renting and her landlord doesn't like her and vice versa.
Stuff keeps breaking and she doesn't have the money to replace or fix.
At night when the kids are gone or asleep she feels so alone and lonely. It's hard in a big, quiet house with just herself and her thoughts.
Getting three kids ready for school is nuts all by yourself.

Now me... if I don't like something I change it. And all week I've had running in my head that if you're so unhappy then why are we doing this? Why not just come back?

But of course, as your statement said, none of those said she wants to come back, only that she's dissatisfied with how things are for her. But dissatisfaction with her current state does not equal wanting to be with me. And all week that's been where my head is at. So thank you for pointing that out.

Just an update from today because I think it's funny and hopefully others will too...

W and I discussed last week that I would not take S to church today and instead pick him up in the afternoon and keep him overnight since I'm gone all week next week. Then I asked to expand that to include SS and SD for the afternoon and evening (I'd have them overnight but don't have beds for them.. they're ordered but not here yet).

So this morning I get a text, a call, and a second call asking about picking S up for church (I missed the first text and call). I remind her of what we agreed and she remembers. I tell her it'll be around 2:30 or 3:00 that I get there. Earlier in the week she said I could have them as much as I want this weekend because she's trying to get her house set up and cleaned. While I'd like to get them earlier I specifically am not because making life easy on her is not my job.

So just now I get a text from her "Kids will be ready by 1. They are driving me crazy so the sooner you can get them the better for all of us. They aren't helping me at all and its starting to chap my a$$".

I reply with what they will need and that I will be there around 2:30 or 3:00. Here's the reply I get, "Ok, so later... awesome. That's a lot of help. I'll have them ready" (understand that this is absolutely cynical and her tone is that she's very pissed).

What the heck does she think? It's her weekend. Welcome to single mom with three kids land. And yes, it is taking all of my willpower not to drop everything and run over there to save her. My excuse would be that I'm "doing it for the kids" so that they don't have to deal with stressed out/angry mom, but it would really be to save her. To fill my role as fixer/caretaker again. To get that "high" from having her say thank you to me.

And as I sit here and type this I'm getting a little pissed off actually... she knows full well that this type of reply triggers my guilt and angst. That in the past I would fold like a deck of cards and do whatever to avoid her anger. She's manipulating me. I don't know if it's conscious or unconscious, but now that I'm conscious of it... well, it ticks me off.

WHG,

I'd talk to your IC about your brother. I agree the choice should not be contingent on W's possible reactions.

But, you are at an incredibly difficult moment in your life. Sharing a house with someone other than my spouse and child is a huge stress for me. Other people might find a sibling comforting. I love my sibs, but living with them would be difficult. So, I'm just suggesting that you carefully consider whether having brother with you would be a comfort and support, or stressful, or a mixture.

It is important that you take very good care of yourself right now. It is OK to do what is best for you right now. You need it and it is best for the kids.

Be gentle and compassionate toward WHG, then decide.

Ignore her darts. Really, totally ignore them. She'll stop throwing them if they don't hit the target.

Focus on the kids, being excited to get them, have a great time with them.

If she tries to start in on you when you get them, look at her like she's crazy and give her a buzzer noise with a smile. Then shoo the kids out into the car and say "see ya."

WHG - I posted this on your thread the other day but want to re-post again as I think it is very important for you to remember:

"When you talk about your W calling you to vent and asking for favors and other ridiculous stuff so she can do selfish things (i.e. party's and bikini waxes) I can't help but remember something you wrote several weeks ago abut your W's former H.

Something about when her car broke down, how he came to help her because he was in denial about the demise of their R and how your W sort of laughed at his desperation.

Don't let your W trap you into that type of behavior. Your W needs to realize that she has made her bed and needs to lie in it."

@Gabby... yes, I know we're both co-dependent, in fact it's one of the reasons I'm reading Co-Dependent No More right now. I'm a fixer and enjoy fixing and she enjoys being fixed... a match made in heaven.

It's funny you should mention the moving back in scenario. It's something both my IC and my mom have challenged me on. I'm not lying, it would be hard, but I don't believe I would allow her to move back at this point, not without conditions and a plan. There would have to be conditions which include IC for her and MC for us. And we would need to start over and work towards co-habitation again. I know it sounds fine on paper... would I be able to execute? I think so. As hard as this is, I don't want to just rush back together should it come to that only to do this waltz again. If nothing else the sanity and health of the kids would drive me. I might be ok with the revolving door thing, but doing that to them isn't acceptable.

@2TP... yes, I remember that. I've actually had that front in my mind since you posted it. Even today when I got the pissy text from her I thought of it.

WGH,
Hang in there re surviving the D process and focusing on ur R with your S5. The rest is out of ur hands for now.

I can relate regarding the intrusive XH on one's sitch. Have had a really manipulative, needy one in mine, still calls W for every health scare, etc... On my part, I let it get to me too much and didn't stay the bigger man - made me look weak and jealous in her eyes. Do what you can to stay focused on what's best for her and keep portraying urself as strong.

My motto for this year?: You can't keep a good man down!

FL

Kids and I had a great time tonight. They really had a blast swimming. Afterward we went to the Chinese buffet and they ate like kings. Then we came back to my place so they could see our dog and chill. SS played XBox which he was missing desperately. SD played some too, and then her and S did crafts. They made love cards for my W. Not my idea, but that's what they wanted to do and I didn't think it was my place to redirect them and I helped out as needed.

W was ok when I got kids. Actually about 2pm she texted me and asked curtly if 2:30 to 3 meant 2:30 or 3. I simply replied I was busy with a bunch of projects and it meant whenever I got done, but if she wanted to bring them over and drop them off that was fine with me and save me the trip there. I get this dramatic reply about how she hasn't left the house at all today and is pretty depressed right now so she didn't have the energy to leave the house to drive them here (8 blocks away). I didn't reply. Got over there about 2:45 and got the kids. She certainly looked and acted very depressed.

Actually she reminded me of how she was back in October. This was when she was terribly depressed and talking in fatalistic terms. Back then she was so depressed "because she felt trapped in the house with me and can't stand it here but has no choice." So she would run to her friend's house regularly to "escape" our house and me. Hmmm... well, that certainly ain't it this time! She did give me a bag of photos. Some where mine from my high school/college years, but about half were photos of us, our wedding, trips, etc... Not sure where they came from but I took them and said thanks. No tears, etc... whatever.

One very freeing part of this current sitch is that I don't feel beholden to her depression. In the past I would've responded to her mood/behavior tonight with desperate attempts to make her happy. Instead of engaging and finding out the problem I would've made the world saccharine sweet for her based on the belief/feeling that I was part of the core reason for her unhappiness.

It's freeing because clearly there's nothing I could've done that caused today. Maybe something I did or did not do had a second or third order effect, or perhaps it's something from a while past that is affecting her (though highly doubtful). But I don't feel on the hook or responsible for her mood/behavior/condition. She's on her own and her depression remains very much as it was before. So much for her theory that removing herself from me would solve her depression.

..and the truth shall set you free.

She is depressed because the reality of her decisions are starting to set in. She needs to deal with that.

Well... actually I think she's depressed because she's simply depressed. I don't know if the reality is sinking in or not yet. I'm sure it partly is, but one of the fundamental pieces in this is her untreated depression.

She was taking Wellbutrin but stopped that against medical advice about six weeks ago. The Wellbutrin was not actually for depression, it was for smoking cessation, but that's was just her screen. She originally went in to the doc to get Wellbutrin and used her smoking as the reason. In reality she didn't want to have to go see a therapist and have a mental health workup done.

So yes. Part of this is her reality sinking in. But her narrative leading up to the bomb was that she's known for years "things weren't right". That having to "act like a wife when she doesn't feel like one" is what has caused her depression. That "living in a marriage where I'm not in passionate love with my partner" makes her depressed.

Well... you're not living in that marriage anymore nor do you have to act like a wife anymore. Yet you're still depressed. More depressed than before actually. The reality is her depression stems from years of unaddressed issues and abuse and until she deals with that... she'll be depressed. Heck, she might be depressed after dealing with it, but it sure isn't going to get better on its own.

And then add the fact that it's time for her to start cycling down into a depressive state. She's been running her full-steam manicness for the past few weeks. I actually started calendering her cycles (for my own sanity) about three months ago. They're never exactly perfect but I have been able to see trends and patterns emerge.

I think it's not the wife part, it's the grown-up part she doesn't like. She wants to be a teenager but just can't quite swing that without the help of others.

It's good that she finally has the opportunity to grow up. That would be great for the kids.

GM23,
What you posted really resonated with me. My W is bipolar, and is in great need of learning from life experience. I believe she has done so, and seems to be needing our S (and possible D) to stand on her own again.

If anything, the "Mr Fix-it", helpful, stable-male behaviors can be seen as negative, controlling, and stifling (from her perspective).

Hard to balance the natural loving concern with the requested need to have space to learn and grow (and make mistakes).

FL

@Gabby... yes, it sounds eerily familiar unfortunately. There is a rampant history of bi-polar in my W's family. Her dad is bi-polar. Her grandpa was as well I would guess based on stories I've been told. Her grandpa on her mom's side was as well.

Thanks for sharing that story. That could have been my life up to now, except replace "Atlantic City" with "binge drinking". Nothing was ever enough and I could never make her happy. Again, this isn't to say I didn't screw up too. In fact, perhaps my biggest mistake was not to "step in the puddle" with her and confront her on her behavior. Demand that she get help and then support her. Instead I tried to make the world perfect for her, got angry at her for all the hoops I jumped through to do this, and then locked her out because I was angry and took my anger out on others.

I think the past week has been much about me wanting what I can't have. Not wanting HER so much as wanting US back. I can't have it so I want it.

Last night a really pretty minor event happened that made me realize I don't want her back. Not like she is. I guess it wasn't one event, it was a combination of things. First, she gave me a stack of old photos. I looked through them. It was painful but it was good too. They were from years ago. Holidays at my mom's house, trips we took before our S was born, family time when S was one or two. I saw all the happiness we had. Happiness she denies. I see us cuddling, embracing, touching, kissing, and being together. All things she said we've never had. Candid photos of us lying on a couch holding each other. It made me remember the days when she would do things for me. Things to make me happy just out of the blue. The way people who care for each other do. It also reminded me who my W was once upon a time.

Then my mom called last night. She wanted to know what was up with my W. My W had posted to Facebook that she was tired of being taken for granted. Based on the convo her and I had when I got the kids I believe this was directed at them (not that they'll see it... kids aren't on FB). She was angry, furious really, that she worked all day on setting up the new house. Hanging photos, cleaning, organizing, etc... and the kids didn't help much at all. They laid around, watched TV, etc... in short they were kids. The most helpful was S and of course he was... he's five and helping is still cool

But that FB comment made me realize how incredibly self-focused my W is right now. How ungrateful those children are. Don't they realize how hard she is working? Really? C'mon. You just tore apart their world, made them move, and disrupted their lives... and you want them to be grateful to you? Be glad they aren't throwing things at you.

Now... this isn't a change for my W. But when we were still under the same roof I didn't acknowledge it. I guess I kept hoping she wouldn't move out, so I didn't want to admit these things to myself. If I did then I would have to deal with me and wonder why the heck I still want someone like that in my house. It was easier to ignore and overlook (which is what I've done for YEARS) and simply accomodate and placate. I'm pretty sure this is what Oldtimer was trying to tell me for months, but I wouldn't listen.

Gabby... you asked if I would let her back in now if she asked. No, I wouldn't. I am confident of that. Not that the FB post is really a big deal, but it's what it represents. That rather than saying thanks for taking the kids, feeding them, and having them over for a few hours... instead I get why aren't you taking them more. Instead of being empathetic to the three little lives you've just lobbed a hand grenade at... we get, woe is me and how undervalued I am.

Enough. She needs to live her life now. She needs to be with herself and learn who she is. I need to do the same. I really don't know if we can ever find a path back. That's not meant to be defeatist... it's meant to just be observational. A year ago I wouldn't have guessed we'd be here. And in the same vein I can't predict what we will be like a year from now. But clearly there have to be conditions if she does ever want to return. And those conditions may make a return impossbile. But there's no point focusing on that right now since it's not a reality... instead just live in the now.

Just some journaling... things definitely don't occur with as much frequency or alacrity now that W has moved out. I was out of town all week for work. It made being dark a lot easier, I'll tell you that. W and I had precious few interactions. I called her on Tuesday so I could talk to the kids. She offered to talk at the end of the call, but I didn't really want to. I was out at dinner with friends so when she came back on the line I excused myself and hung up.

Wednesday she had only our S (SS and SD were with XH). I called my S in the evening and talked to him. This time she specifically asked to talk to me after I was done with S. So I waited and we talked a bit. She wanted to tell me S was very down and sad this week. He told his teacher, my mom, and my W that he doesn't like the divorce and it makes him very sad. W felt that my being out of town was the source of his sadness. I said that neither of us know... that I'm sure it's more impacting because I've been gone for a while now, but that it's also the second full week of living in two houses. The bloom is off the rose now and he doesn't appear to like it. I suggested we simply listen to him and what he's telling us and go from there. After the convo about S, W started telling me a little about her week. It's so easy to slip into that pattern. I told her about how I had run into a former co-worker that morning in the office of one of our senators (talk about a weird coincidence). She then told me about some gossip she'd heard about his wife... and that was when I realized I was falling back into old habits. So I quickly cut her off, told her I had to get back to dinner with Nicole and her friends and hung up. Nicole is a colleague from another part of the state.

Thursday morning I got a panicked text from my W asking if my mom could get SS and SD after school. XH and W had yet to figure out the "what happens to SS and SD after school" piece... oops. I debated for quite a while on this. After all my mom was already picking up my S after school, so it wouldn't be anything to get SS and SD, plus my mom loves them and misses them terribly. At the same time, is this how it works? You can't plan for your kids so you ask your STBX to do it? In the end I asked my mom if she would mind, she didn't, so my mom got them. I don't think I like how I resolved it. W did say thanks at least.

Then Friday was a bit humorous... at least to me. In the morning it occurred to me that W would need my mom to get SS and SD again after school. However, her messages the day before had been very specific about only Thursday... no mention of Friday. My first thought was to text her to see if she needed help. But then I stopped... not my job. Let her figure it out.

Sure enough... when I got home from travelling my mom tells me that she got a panicked phone call from my W at 3pm asking if my mom could pick up SS and SD and take them to my house until XH picked them up. SS and SD were pretty miffed that mom forgot about them... SS's words to my mom were, "I'm guessing mom forgot about us again?" According to my mom she replied that it's just going to take a little time for everyone to get used to their new roles... and for my W one of those roles is managing a family calendar (that's something I used to do).

Nothing really has changed much, though I know not to expect it. Like I said contact has been very minimal. I do know that W is very depressed based on the little bit of contact I've had and that some mutual friends have had. I'm worried for her, but largely powerless to affect it. One thing I have noticed is that W is now following my Facebook updates again. For a long time she had my feeds blocked to her news feed. I never quite understood why... I didn't do the "messages via quotes" thing or anything like that. But now any time I post something that's positive or that involves the kids she's one of the first to "like" it or comment. Just this morning some random lady in front at the drive-thru paid for my Starbucks (random act of kindness) and my W was the first to "like" my post.

So things are ok. I wish S was doing better. He's sad and hurting. I do miss my W, but at the same time like not coming home to the stress. Just tonight I caught myself looking at the clock and thinking, "crap, only three hours until she comes home"... then I realized she wasn't coming home. At that moment I felt this odd mix of grief/loss and relief.

Tomorrow is church for S and I. I told the church last week of my separation and received a lot of hugs and support. This morning was volunteer stuff with an award presentation for three of my cadets and our local Congressman. Other than that lying low trying to get my house and life back in order after being gone for a full week.

Had an interesting set of email exchanges with my W today. She emailed early this morning to tell me of her work schedule for mid-month. In there was a request to have the kids overnight for one or two nights as she has been given a few night shifts.

I immediately started tapping out a reply, in church no less. What is wrong with me? I put away my phone and decided she could wait for goodness sake. So when I got home and got caught up on things I responded, about four hours later.

I told her the overnights were fine. I rarely get my SS and SD overnight. That triggered quite a few back and forth emails, mostly logistics stuff. One update that I was happy to see is that the on/off arrangement with XH may be no more. She's going to ask the judge to have XH pay CS and keep the old schedule. That would mean more time I would get with SS and SD. Unfortunately it means the R between SS, SD, and XH will probably become worse. But, frankly, I don't think it's healthy for the kids to be moving between two houses that are 60 miles apart during the school week. It means no park and rec, sports, etc... they don't have a "home". I had not shared those thoughts with my W because she didn't ask and it's not my place any more. So I was glad to see she got there on her own.

Anyway, during the exchanges she asked how I was doing. Told her great. She replied that it's hard. That she hates being alone in the house and struggles. That she misses being able to come home and tell someone about her day.

Of course that doesn't mean she misses me... it wasn't that she missed telling me about her day, just telling someone. Then she says this,

Quote:

As for living my life...yes, I'm more trying to figure out myself first and then try to find things I enjoy doing that I have not done for a long time. I'm a hot mess and hope to try and fix that to be a better me, better mom and better at being alone

So not sure where I take that... but it's fits her mantra so far. And I do hope all those things come true for her. I'd like her to be a better her and a better mom.

So then we discuss a little more business. Some payment arrangements on some stuff and whatnot. We discuss our S's pending birthday party and what we're going to do about that (we're going to have a joint party that we split the cost on). That was a big change for me... in the past I would've paid for everything and set everything up. Today I simply told her what S says he wants, what the estimated cost would be, and that I would pay half. She agreed. Ok, so during all of this my tone is fairly business-like and restrained. I'm trying to not be emotional or mopey, etc... Then I send her email about something I forgot to say in my "last email."

I get this panicked reply... she's apologizing if she made me angry or hurt me. That she needs to do this and knows it's horrible on everyone. That she hopes this wasn't my last email to her ever to her. That if it is she hopes I'll reconsider and explain why I feel the need to just stop communicating like that.

WTF? Umm.. I just meant my "last email" as in the email I just sent... no, not the last email that I will ever send you. Somehow I think that email will have far more fanfare and dramatics involved. But her reaction really surprised me. I have no idea what it means, but it did surprise me.

So tomorrow it's back to the office after being gone for a full week on work travel. Tomorrow night I see W for the first time in over a week. Feeling ok. Lots of support at church today and had a good weekend with S. Get to see all three kids tomorrow and spend the evening with them and put them to bed.

Doing better I guess. Still miss my family. Still miss my W. Still tired of finding things missing and having to replace them (today it was my favorite measuring cups). But one step at a time.

Though I did go out and buy a new stylish overcoat (I've worn the same winter coat for 13 years... those Columbia's hold up well) and new underwear. Every "single guy" website says buy new underwear so I did... and I didn't even go cheap

Finally exercised again this morning... first time in almost two months, man it felt good. Got to bed later than planned last night due to convo with W. Woke up this morning and said, screw it, I'll just go to work early, I'll exercise tomorrow. And then that just seemed sad and depressing so I decided to go back to sleep... and then I thought if I do this today (a day without my S or kids in the house) I will do this every day I'm alone. So I forced my butt out of bed, put on my workout clothes and went for a two mile run. Not JB-level workout, but a good step in the right direction.

Had all the kids last night. It's still melancholy for me. The house is so alive and vibrant when they're all there. I started a new effort... asking each of them "What did you do today to make the world a better place?" It was neat to hear their answers. I got the idea after meeting Mark Schriever (son of Sargent Schriever) this past week in DC. I asked him how his dad, who was such a force for good in American life, also managed to create five amazing kids. He said every day his dad would ask him what he did today to make the world a better place, and he would expect an answer. I thought it was great so I'm trying it out.

W got home and we talked some. First time I'd seen her in a week. She is looking pretty harried and tired, then again she had worked 60 hours in five days. We figured out S's birthday plans and discussed some financial stuff. Then the topic turned to how things are going. She told me she worries about me. I told her not to, things are good. I told her I worry about her and asked if she was ok. She said she's really depressed and not eating. Said that she woke up the other morning and "felt too thin" and got scared. She has a history of anorexia so I'm worried for her, but nothing I can really do.

We discussed her court date this week with XH. She wants to ask the judge to nix the new arrangement and have SS and SD with her all week during the school year (as it has been for the past 8 years). I just listened and validated. At one point she asked me what I thought she should do. I told her she should listen to herself. She's their mother and knows what's best for kids.

I will admit it was damn hard to listen to her rail on how selfish and self-centered her XH is. How this is all about him and his needs. How he doesn't really worry about the kids or how all this will effect them. It was so hard to not make a comment or throw it back in her face. The lack of self-awareness is remarkable. She again asked my thoughts and I replied that I've learned it's best to keep it about the kids and their needs.

At one point she mentioned that her friend (who she either has or had feelings for) is coming to stay, with his son, at her place this weekend. She's farmed SD and S out to her mom and SS will be with me learning cold weather survival skills. Her friends have a music festival and this one friend is coming up for that. She was very adamant in telling me he is sleeping on the pull-out couch with his son. Umm... ok. You're a grown woman living on your own, do what you will. I won't deny that it hurt a little to hear, but it really is her life now.

The convos ended with her inviting me to go shopping with her on Wednesday to buy presents for S's birthday. I said yes. Seemed like a low-impact sort of thing.

Only cried a little bit when I left the house and headed to my place. Only cried a little when I got home. A lot less than the last time I did that routine.

I still miss SD and SS a lot. Once or twice a week suxx. Looking forward to hanging out with SS all weekend, even if we will be camping out in the snow

Tonight is Parent-Teacher conference for S. We are both attending together, and then I'm taking SS, SD, and S out for ice cream while W goes to SS's conference (with her XH).

Had P/T conferences today. S is doing great in school and very smart. W was late for the conference. Somehow she didn't process that SS and SD get done with school at the same time as S's conference so she calls me all in a tizzy about not being able to be in two places at once. I wanted to ask her how the heck she didn't figure this out until five minutes before the conference but instead let it go. The funny part is this morning I was going to call/text my W and ask her how she was going to manage the kids getting out of school and getting to the conference. But I didn't because that's her problem to figure out. Guess she didn't really figure that out.

Took SD, S, and my niece out for ice cream while W went to SS's conference. Then had a work meeting tonight. Had to stop by her house on the way home to drop off backpacks and bags that had accidentally not been taken out of my van.

W tells me about SS's conference. Went pretty badly and SS is struggling greatly in school. This after being on honor roll from Sept - Dec. From Dec - Feb he's getting Ds and Cs. Hmmm... what happened around then? Wish I could figure it out. W posited tonight that maybe the breakup is affecting his academics... you think?

Went home after dropping stuff off and talking about SS. Getting some stuff done around here and getting to bed so I can get up and exercise in the morning.

A good day I guess. Morning started out with a call from W while I was out for my run. I answered since it's unusual to get a call at 6:30 in the morning. S was feeling ill but we mutually decided to send him to school.

Around noon W texts me that she's ready whenever to go birthday shopping for S. I have to admit I was nervous as hell. This is the first time W and I have done something together, without the kids, in... well, a really long time. Maybe since we went to dinner the day after the bomb? So yes, I was very nervous. How would it go? What would we talk about? Can I actually "act as if" the whole time? So I text her back that I'll be over in 20-30 minutes and had her wait the full 30.

I pick her up and we head out. She asks if I've eaten lunch yet and I hadn't so she suggests we go out for lunch before shopping. Sure. It's funny... I really have no expectations. So really it was pretty easy. I know her, I know what makes her laugh and what her interests are. It wasn't a date... but it's like going on a first date almost with someone who you have this whole dossier worked up on. It felt strange.

Anyway, it wasn't a date, just two friends or a mom and a dad having lunch, whatever you want to call it. Afterward we went shopping. We had a fun time. Again, it was easier due to the lack of expectations. I haven't felt that free around my W in so long. I didn't fret about her being happy or unhappy, I was just me. We teased each other like we used to do. Made some inside jokes and shared some memories.

My S wants a remote control tarantula for his birthday. My W hates spiders and is deathly afraid of them. She's told my S that he can have the spider but it stays at my house. I told her that's fine. She didn't believe me. She kept joking that I'd find a way to sneak it back to her house. I told her I just might... she tells me she better not... I reply, or what? You're going to divorce me? not have sex anymore? Oh wait...

She smiled and laughed... good point she says... guess I'll expect to see a large hairy spider in my house and we both laughed.

But I realized at that point how much control I've let her have over the years, both in the fear that if I didn't make her absolutely happy she would either not have sex with me or she would divorce me. With both of those essentially on the table I was free to be me.

We got back and I went and picked up S from school. Tonight was very quiet as S seemed fine but completely passed out tonight. He fell asleep before dinner and never woke up. I finally had to carry him up to his bedroom and he slept through the whole thing. Poor little guy.

W has texted and called a few times tonight to check on S. I guess I'll put today in the "good" column. W suggested we should do this again for SD's birthday and I agreed. She then suggested we should do this for Christmas too... then she backtracked as she's afraid there will be too much disparity between what I have to spend at Christmas and what she does. I told her let's just take it a day at a time and see where things are come Christmas-time.

I exercised again this morning and felt pretty good most of the day. It was a work from home day so those are hard still. I also spent some time today going through photos for a class project S has and to get photos to decorate my walls. That was pretty hard. Lots of happy times, vacations, pics of W and I at happier moments. I let myself feel it but tried not to dwell.

WHG --

*more space than she wants* not *exactly as much space as she wants*

...

I agree ^ she needs to feel you gone. Your absence, your unavailability. Make new plans, or make them up. Change up the schedule and take a scheduled night with the kids and make last minute change by saying you have something to do. Go dark, act as if you have something going on for you. Then do plan something, and if you don't make it up.

absolutely DO NOT mess with your scheduled time with the kids

bad move

but do be less available to be "her buddy"

It is nice to be buddies but she has to feel like you a hot commodity (because you are)
that she made a mistake in taking you for granted (which she did)
and that she might not be able to crook her finger to get you back (I hope not)

remind yourself of how great you are and what an awesome person you are and who you want to surround yourself with...what kinds of people do you want in your life...then make that happen for you

let her sit outside that circle for bit because honestly
she doesn't deserve to be in the inner circle right now

Let me clarify, because I don't think he should mess up the entire schedule with his children, every week, or every so often. I'm simply saying, calling one night and saying you can't come that night, not an entire week or weekend. I'll be blunt here. I think she uses him as her baby sitter, and plans her entire life around this. As a former single parent, you have to be responsible and take that responsibility and not treat your children's father like a sitter.

She does not feel him gone. It is not revenge, it is showing the WAS that you are not there to fall back on 100%, that you have a life now too and that you are out there living it. She cannot know what it feels like to sit outside the circle, when she knows he is a sure thing, every time, 100% of the time.

Build mystery, create mystery.

"Why did he call and cancel his day/night with the kids? What is it that he is doing that is so important".

I guarantee you, she'll run to check his facebook to try and figure this out.

One night does not destroy a relationship with father and child. It might however get the WAS to sit up and take notice......

"Hey, he has a life now...... and I'm ....not....in.....it"

When you are there 100%, there is no mystery, she does not feel him gone, and she knows she can 100% rely on him when she needs him to be there.

Of course, I'm not saying cancel important appointments, or promised things with the kids. Just an regular night where nothing super special was planned out.

I could be be totally wrong here, but then maybe not.

Oh, and I definitely block the WAS that has moved away from seeing facebook posts. Build the mystery.

Journaling now because later I don't know I'll be conscious

It was a good weekend. SS and I spent all weekend together at a winter survival training. We camped out overnight in shelters that we built using whatever was in our gear (no tents allowed). It was his first "big" event with our group and he had a great time. While the event was Sat/Sun we ended up spending all weekend together because he slept over at my house Friday night. We spent much of Friday getting him equipped with his gear. We had fun and he was so appreciative of everything.

It did make me feel bad in a way though... I bought him new winter boots and a new winter jacket. His dad is supposed to buy that stuff but when he finally does he does it on the uber-cheap. I've always groused about it with my W, but we've never rectified it. My W was always going to be damned before she spent our money on stuff XH is supposed to buy. Now, without W having a say in how I spend my money, I went out and got him equipped. He told me, "Wow... this is the nicest jacket anyone has ever bought me!" Well, if you're going to sleep outside in the winter you have to have the right equipment or things go bad. And everything was on insane clearance due to the end of winter.

Friday was odd though too... W had court with XH on Friday. She called me after court but I let it go to voice mail. Then she called again and I ignored it. Then I get a 911 text so I called her back. She starts venting about how court went, how they have to go mediation, and how the current system has to stay in effect until that's done. She is ranting about how angry she is, how selfish her XH is. Finally I cut her off. I tell her I am in a meeting and that I can't talk. When I picked SS up she is still fuming and starts to vent again. Then she makes a point of telling me her friend (i.e. "crush guy") can't stay overnight after all and is going home instead of staying at her place. All the time I'm trying to get SS to hurry up and get his stuff so we can leave. It's crazy I tell ya. I validated as best I could and focused on getting SS ready.

Today I dropped him off. Saw the kids briefly and talked to W briefly. Updated her on a few things and then left. She tried to engage me by asking if I was ok, because on the phone I seemed sad or depressed. I told her I was just exhausted (which was the truth) and that I was great.

Broke down a little after leaving the house. I still miss the kids and my W. I know I'm extra emotional as I'm working on two nights of very short sleep. But today is one of those days I'd love to come home and be able to just crash and sit with my W. Maybe get a backrub since my back is screwed up from humping a rucksack over hill and dale. But that's not in the cards.

@Gabby... when I said "sit with my W" I actually meant just sitting with whomever I'm married to (or in a LTR with). I didn't actually mean my current W. No, sitting with her would not be relaxing at all. It would just be nice to come home after a very long weekend of hard training and have someone backing you up and who has your back.

As far as the message/call... we talked about that on Friday. That was the "issues" we discussed. I explained that I didn't like how she handled it and felt manipulated. Her counter was that she thought I would want to know the results of court since they were so counter to what we she thought would happen. And I do have an investment in the court outcome... if she prevails I get to see my SS and SD two to three times a week, otherwise it's the one, maybe two, times I get now. Anyway, I calmly explained what a 911 text meant to me and that if she really needed to talk to just say that in her text. I may respond, I may not, but that should be my choice.

As far as validating... that's a tough call for me. In our marriage it was one of my greatest shortcomings. When she had an emotionally charged issue I'd let her deal with it and wouldn't "step in the puddle" with her. Or if I did it was all about fixing the problem and telling her what to do. It's part of how we got here... if she's going to deal with her problems on her own then she might as well be actually alone. At the same time she's chosen to go it alone.

Typically these exchanges aren't very long. The phone call for example was three minutes before I ended it and half of that was her describing the court outcome to me.

Now... whether it makes me uncomfortable... it doesn't really. Sometimes it hurts a bit, but less now. What I have found is that since I've started listening (and stopped trying to find solutions which requires not listening since you're thinking) I have learned a lot more about my W. I understand her much more than in the years we were together. I can hear what's important to her. I would guess that this past week her total "venting" time to me was 15 minutes. What usually gets me down that road though is that an innocuous question/conversation about our kids, schedules, etc... quickly sidetracks into one of these venting sessions. And by the time I realize where we've gone we're into it and then I feel the need to listen for at least a bit before ending the convo.

I stand behind not messing with your scheduled time with the kids

I was a single parent for a long time too and it isn't about babysitting it is about responsibility

just as she would have to find a sitter if she couldn't watch them on her scheduled day, so would he or he would be using her as a "babysitter"

she should be able to feel the loss in other ways

don't use the kids as pawns or weapons to prove a point

and if you have to lie to create mystery then it isn't real anyway

getting a life is about just that

getting a life

she will know or she won't know but it isn't about making her wonder...it is about WHO YOU ARE

don't play games with anyone

just live the way you were meant to live all along

Originally Posted By: figgeroni

Let's put it this way, WHG's W reminds me of how my ex behaved with our child. He used our child to keep himself entangled into my life, and manipulated me with a tight schedule. He had a hold on my every movement, because of that tight schedule. And yes, he treated me like I was the baby sitter, setting up a schedule that would be pertinent to his nights out with buddies. I'm sorry, but I put an end to this, as I was not our daughter's baby sitter, but her mother.

I db-ed my marriage and saved it, not by playing games, but by being gone and his feeling my being gone, and moving on and not allowing myself to be controlled.

Oh yes, an experienced member on this forum told me, when I first started to GAL, and I had no one to really go out with, told me "fake it till you make it". In the beginning I had no one to go with, so I went to the library until I found buddies to go out with.

When you create mystery, you are making it real when you break out and engage in things and not allow yourself to be manipulated. It's real when you do that for yourself.

His life is no longer her business, and if he wants to go out instead of take his children, it doesn't make him a horrible person either.

It's not about using the children as weapons, that's far from where I was going.

I understand what you're saying CT. I think my W does like to use me as a babysitter, but whether she can do that or not is entirely in my control.

With that said I don't know, at least at this point, if I'm comfortable with the short-notice change of plans just to create mystery. I love my time with my son and my SS and SD too much. And in the case of SS/SD there's so little of it in the first place.

I've also spent the past six years being the one who usually was with SS/SD when their dad would cancel on short notice or just not show up for a scheduled night. I've seen, repeatedly, what that experience is like for the kids. I've spent too many nights piecing SS/SD back together again because their dad didn't show. I don't think SS/SD would have a huge issue if I cancelled, but my S absolutely would. I guess, for me, if it comes down to that's what I need to do to put my M back together then that's a bridge too far for me. It's not that it's right or wrong, but it's a personal choice I don't know that I can make.

Last week at one point W mentioned that there are some weekends this summer that she already knows she has things going on where she has the kids. She didn't have the list of dates but said there are three our four of them. She casually mentioned that maybe we could switch up some weekends. Of course that's not possible since she works her weekends without the kids. I know her well enough that this is her way of "easing" me into taking them for her while she goes off to a big party, music festival, etc...

After that convo I thought about it for a while. I am planning on making sure I have something going on those weekends, and if I don't I'll find something. I don't feel that's manipulative because I'm not reneging on a commitment I've already made. There may be one weekend I'm willing to take the kids since I would like to take all of them on a four or five day vacation somewhere. But the others it's up to her.

As far as Facebook there's been lots of different advice. Go dark, post constantly, post sparingly. The thing is, I haven't changed my approach or frequency of posting stuff to Facebook. I also don't post stuff for her benefit. I post it so my mom, my friends, my niece, etc... can see what the kids are up to. I usually only post kids' stuff anyway. Though last week when I was in DC I was posting me stuff and it allowed me to reconnect with some old friends who are stationed at Dover AFB and I hadn't realized that. So my thoughts on FB are that I'm doing it for me. I'm not going to change my behavior just to accommodate her or, again, try to artificially create something. I'm living my life. I don't know that the little window that FB gives into that life really does much as far as mystery goes.

WHG,

I agree that it would not be a good thing to jerk the kids around. No need for it.

But, you persist in maximizing contact, and keeping the space between you as little as possible.

You, as a person, need your own space, you need to consciously choose your own boundaries here and enforce them. W pulling the 911 stunt was inexcusable. A voicemail, text, or email would have easily relayed the relevant info. Perhaps you should stop all voice calls for awhile so you can better manage yourself.

As for any weekends this summer, there's no reason to make up stuff. Simply say, "sorry, that doesn't work for me." As for her oversharing her dating life with you, simply ask her to stop: "W, really, please stop with the oversharing. It is really inappropriate. If you are introducing someone into S's life, then please let me know. But, if it doesn't concern the kids, I'm not your man."

Do you remember a few months ago when you were talking about being a strong leader? You need to be a strong leader in your own life. Right now, you are pushed this way and that, you bend this way and the other. You need your own form. Right now you are merely that which is left after W shapes you. Where are YOU??

"And, FWIW, I think it is insane to have W on your FB page. She is not your friend, not your lover, and effectively not your W. Why would you want that intrusion? (And it is BS if you say you don't think about what W will think about your posts.)"

Was sick all day today, caught whatever bug S had last week. Had all the kids tonight which was fun. Granted I spent the weekend with SS, but missed SD terribly as I hadn't seen her for more than a few minutes in about a week. Missed my S too, but I'd seen him as recently as Friday.

S had his final wrestling practice tonight. His birthday is tomorrow. We are having some food, cake, and presents tomorrow night at W's house with her family and my family. I'm honestly not sure what to think. Part of me thinks this is more "together" than W and I should have right now. At the same time having mom and dad together for his birthday party is what my S wants and what his school counselor and my C recommend. I won't stay super-long though anyway as I have a board meeting to get to.

The handoff tonight went well. I was able to keep it much shorter than the past few. Simply shared some logistics about the kids, confirmed things for tomorrow's birthday stuff, and left. Maybe three minutes tops... as I went to the door I got "oh, you have to leave right away?" Yep... I don't believe she really wanted me to stay except that she wanted to be able to talk about some stuff that's bothering her and the day she had.

@Oldtimer... just curious, above you said this,

Quote:

She is not your friend,

why isn't she my friend? and/or why can't she be?

Excluding DB concepts... and the need for mystery, etc... why can't someone's XW/XH be a friend? I'm not saying right now it's necessarily healthy to be friends, but what excludes that from happening?

WHG, hope you don't take offense to the 2x4's I laid out in my previous posts.

A very wise person on this forum told me about creating mystery, and getting a life, even if I didn't have one at the beginning, to create that mystery, to foster it and soon enough.... it would be there. They were right. There is nothing artificial about making plans and following through.

I shut my open book up to my H, and managed to go dark, even with him here. I excluded him off my facebook, I began living my life as if he was my daughter's father, not my partner. I stopped responding to messages, unless it had something to do with our child and that is it. I created enough distance and mystery, without being unkind to him.

Now when he came to me and wanted to discuss our R, then I opened up. But if it was about anything else, I remained distant. I'm sorry, you want to pack up and leave me in the dust, but you want me to sit down and listen to how the cards did today? Nope.

I realize that what works for one person, won't work for another, or even feel right.

But what I've learned in saving my marriage is this.... that pulling back, creating distance, and not dancing to my H's tunes any more, is what actually brought him back.

It was not a game, not artificial.... because believe me his threats to vacate were on a near daily basis sometimes. I had to learn to move forward as if I were going to live without him and I did.

He has told me a few times, that it was my pulling back that scared him, and made him rethink his life without me.

I stopped being there for him on certain levels. I also stopped being his buddy.

I wish you the best in how this goes for you... and hope you did not take me the wrong way.

And I agree with Oldtimer, I'm sorry but no way would I allow my X on my facebook. No more open books for people who walk out. That information in my life is mine. If they want back in that circle, then maybe they can be included again.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted By: workinghardguy

@Oldtimer... just curious, above you said this,

Quote:

She is not your friend,

Why do you need her as a friend? And is she a friend?

Think about how she treats her friends vs. how she treats you.

Friends do not consistently lie to each other about things that *are* the other person's business. Does she lie to her friends about her boyfriends? Does she manipulate them into babysitting so she can party?

Think about how you feel when you interact with your friends vs. how you feel when you interact with her.

Do you feel respected and cared about? Do your friends take an interest in your welfare?

Think about how you treat your friends?

Do you scoff at what they think is important in their lives? Do you judge and resent them? Do you look down at them?

She is not your friend. I have no idea if she can or will be. I will say that the "we'll always be friends" stuff that happens with separating and D people is generally just a stage of denial on one or both people's parts. Neither of you wanted a friend when you got together. But who knows...

I am sorry Ctflr, I assumed, wrongly it appears, that you meant messing with scheduled times and dates you had already set up

absolutely do NOT be her beck and call boy

and

OT is right...she is not your friend

my friends don't treat me like a pile
and if they did
they would no longer be my friend

get her off your facebook

Thanks everyone. I do realize she's not my friend I was just curious what the thoughts out there were. She is my acquaintance right now, and also the mother of my son. So that adds a layer to the acquaintance role.

I'm going to have to ponder the Facebook thing. As far as it being BS whether I think about her when I post or not... think what you want. But for months she never commented or responded to any post I made. I assumed she had me blocked, and perhaps she did. So I grew accustomed to simply living my life as I did. Then suddenly one day she started following and commenting on posts. I don't know what changed or why she started doing it. I can't remember if it was before or after the move either. However I pretty much only post stuff about my kids to Facebook. Other than when I was in DC I can't remember the last time I posted "me" stuff on there.

I think it's civility and being dark I'm struggling with finding the right balance between. Going dark seems to require some level of incivility, doesn't it?

I also think that I may have painted a darker picture of my W that's somewhat unfair to her. Some of OT's questions/comments made me realize this. Though in fairness to OT he only knows her through my comments and observations.

She has not manipulated me so she can go party. When she asks me to watch the kids she is honest about it. And when I say no she does get a little testy but accepts it. As far as her dating life, I also believe she's been honest so far. Friends who were at the music thing say the same thing she has said. Yes, some will say I'm being blind and stupid, but it's impossible to impart all the detail that goes into life in board posts so I won't even try.

She can be manipulative I realize that. Particularly when something in her life is going wrong she reaches out to me to vent and complain. The issue between her and her XH at court are a perfect example. I need to find a way to discern those moments from communication about the kids moments. More specifically I have to be better at stopping her from going down those roads while we're having a conversation about the kids.

Something else OT said... whether she shows me consideration... she does. Not a lot, but more than I expect quite frankly. She volunteered last weekend to come over and let the dog out while I was gone all weekend. Last week when I was dropping off the kids she asked if I was doing okay, and I believe she was honestly asking. She has been very adamant about paying for her half of any related cost where she wouldn't have to and could easily stick me with the bill.

No... she's not acting like my W. Yes, my friends are people who don't only call me when they need something or want to vent about something, and who take my calls when I need to vent or complain about something. At the same time I don't know that she wouldn't do that... I haven't tested that nor do I plan to.

So it brings me back to finding the point between dark and civility where they meet. Where I can live with myself and yet do the right thing... and I don't know that those two things are congruent quite frankly.

Tonight was interesting... we had S's sixth birthday "party". It was W's night with our S so we had it at her house. We did a joint thing. Back to my civility vs. dark post above. I did a joint party because that's what my S wanted and that's what his counselor recommended. Is it the right DB strategy? Probably not. Or maybe it is... I don't know. I tried to walk a finer line tonight.

It did go fine. I did my best to not be around my W, thankfully her house is big enough for that. I prepared a dish for the event as did she and as did each family member. My mom and niece came, her family came as well. It was surprisingly unawkward during the whole thing. I just treated it like what it was... a party for my S and let that be the focus. I said hello to my in-laws and talked with them. Played with my W's niece and talked with family, both mine and hers. She did the same. We had potluck then cake and presents. S had a great time. I do have to admit it was nice not having "mom presents" and "dad presents". S had an absolute blast and that was really the goal after all.

I arrived 30 minutes before it started to help get things set up as we had agreed on. I did my best to work on stuff separate from my W. I then had to leave right after presents for a board meeting. I stopped by after my board meeting to pick up my stuff (my S had asked me to bring over the XBox and I had bowls and stuff there). I was surprised to see that she had packaged up some of the leftover food for me to take home. I had assumed she'd keep it all. I told her thank you for hosting and left.

Oh I forgot to say... my goal now is to not have contact with her for the rest of the week/weekend. I can't foresee a reason to need it.

So this morning after sleeping on it I logged into Facebook and figured out how to create a "custom" privacy option. I added my W to an exclusion list so now she won't see my updates unless I specifically choose to make an update "public" or "all friends". The default however will be the customized approach.

In reality this is the same level of exclusion W has had applied to me on Facebook for quite a while now. I see her comments on mutual friend's posts and whatnot, but nothing she posts. And so it will be for her. Seems fair to me... what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Not sure why it was so hard to do though, but it was. But now it's done and I won't undo it. Heck... I'll probably forget about it soon enough.

I would be far less concerned about what is the "DB" thing to do and more concerned with what is right for YOU and your son

take your wife out of the equation for now

what is best for you and your kiddos

go from there

This is the crux of my quandry/confusion/angst/dilemma...

I view it as not only what is best for me and for my son, but also what is best for my SD and SS. BUT, I have no avenue to them other than through my W. Her XH certainly isn't going to play ball with me to give me access to them.

So I can cut her off completely except for logistical communication regarding our S. But then if I want access to SS and SD I have to make contact again. And now the only purpose for my contact with her is that. In essence I have become her... I only contact when I want something for myself.

Now... granted that's a bit of hyperbole I will admit. She contacts me when she wants something like an ear to listen or shoulder to cry on. Or when she wants someone to watch the kids while she goes out. I would be contacting her when I want to spend time with two kids who aren't technically mine because I love them, miss them, and want to still play a role in their lives. So yes... the motivations are different.

And yes... I've contemplated just giving up on having any access to SS and SD except the random stuff that may come about. It would make this so much easier. It would make it much cleaner and far less heartbreaking for me. It would get the heartbreak of losing them over all at once, instead of this weekly heartbreak I go through each time I see them and then have to say, "guess I'll see you next Tuesday" (when it's Tuesday that I'm talking to them).

But I can't bring myself to do it... I love those two kids too much. So I feel trapped that if I don't play ball to some degree I lose access to them. Though in her defense my W has never threatened that.

Kind of down today.. not sure why. I actually feel like I'm sort of used to coming home to my house. I do like the independence and the quiet, but still miss my kids a ton. Had my S last night and tonight again, but miss SD and SS something fierce. I've been meaning to start writing them letters/postcards as someone on here suggested, maybe tonight I'll start that. Seems more constructive than wallowing in missing them.

Yesterday W emailed me while I was at work to say that, now that S's birthday is past, she'd like to refocus on getting the D filed. She wants to meet this week and finalize things. I emailed her back, not sure why. She emailed me back. Then I started to email her back and decided I didn't want or have to deal with that right now. She can wait. So those emails are still waiting.

She didn't like that I said I couldn't meet this week. Sorry, my schedule doesn't allow it and I don't owe you an explanation.

Thinking it's the D talk though that is eating at me. It really shouldn't... it's another step. Maybe some part of me hoped it wouldn't actually happen but the bigger part of me knows it will and has to.

Last night S was asking about the D, his brother and sister, and our family. I'm happy that he still refers to our family as all of us. But then in the course of conversation it occurred to him that someday W might remarry. He asked me, with horror in his voice, "Will I have a new daddy?" That was kind of hard. I told him no, I'll always be his daddy just as mom will always be his mommy. Even if mommy or I someday have someone else in our lives we will still be your mommy and daddy. "Oh... then I'll have a stepdad or a stepmom just like SS and SD do." Yes, just like that.

And as a bit of suggestion to folks... if you're feeling a bit down over your sitch, don't visit Kohl's (or any other department store) "home accent" section. I stopped by tonight to pick up some photo frames and decorations for S's room. Good gracious... the amount of "Love is the key to happiness" and assorted love, family, etc... photo frames and accent pieces is ridiculous. Certainly put me in a great mood.

Sorry your feeling down WHG. D talk can definitely do that. I still get an instant pit in my stomach when my w mentions it.

Will your W allow you to take SD & SS out for dinner or somewhere w/ your S? Have you asked and would you hesitate to ask? Letters/Postcards are a great idea. Maybe if you see something they are interested in snap a picture and include it.

Do they use email or have cell phone u can text or have you agreed not to do these things?

I feel you about the love/family items. I think they may have always been there but now they have such a different meaning and we are more aware.

Be Well WHG!!

I get to see them about once a week right now... SS a bit more because he belong to volunteer organization like I do. W doesn't keep them from me, we have good and open comms about that. It's just a scheduling thing really.

When W went after XH for more CS after she moved out of my house he came back with sharing the kids 50/50 instead of paying much, much more in support. Foolishly my W agreed to that instead of digging in a fighting him. Now she regrets that decision very much. When she told me about it I thought she was nuts, but kept my mouth shut. Not my place now. So now her XH has them two nights a week one week and five nights a week the next. Of the two weeknights my W has them I usually have them one night anyway because W works until late in the evening.

The last weekend my W had them I was out of town all weekend (with SS) and this next weekend it's the same thing (again though with SS). So it's just really that there's only so much time in a given week.

Down the road W is scheduled to go to mediation with XH. I'm fairly certain that's not going to bear any fruit so then they'll have to go the Guardian Ad Litem route. Once all of that is done I'm pretty confident that SS and SD will end up with W during the week and every other weekend. XH lives almost an hour away and every morning he is driving them in to town and dropping them off with my W. That suxx for the kids. Plus they have no real chance to be in sports, co-curriculars, clubs, etc... since they have to leave town by 4pm two to three nights a week to get to his house for supper, etc.. It's just stupid.

But I'm odd man out in this conversation so I have to wait and watch, and try to send them my love whenever I get the chance.

They don't have cell phones at their dad's but do at mom's. Then again 50% of the time when they're at mom's they're with me. SD doesn't use email yet since she's only 9.

Just frustrating.

The logistics sound pretty frustrating and out of your control for now.

I've read your sitch from the beginning and know about xh and from what you've stated of past history I imagine that SD & SS will be w/ mom almost full time in the near future.

Perhaps then you will be able to spend more time with them.

I hate it when I don't see my kids for a day or two at a time and empathize with you, it SUC*S!!

Keep Plowing!!