Well, it's been several years since I was on the DB boards. I successfully moved on and survived my first marriage's demise, and met my second wife about 1 year later. After dating for about 1.5 years, I broke up with her after feeling taken advantage of and unappreciated. We were apart for about 9 months during which time she had an intimate R with the guy across the street.
She ended it with him despite calling him her "best friend" and then we started dating again, and married about 5 months later.
During our 1.5 year marriage, her spending went crazy, she poured about $ 24k of my money into her home that she co-owned with her mother, and I ended up having to declare bankruptcy. The separation occured 6 months ago, and there have been brief moments of promise followed by rough times. She attended 2 MC sessions with me before quitting, while I attended 3 more before opting out as well (my thought was what is the use, as it takes two to tango).
I've chased, I've bought her gifts, I've continued to provide $ support. I stumbled upon an active email line through my work (she must have logged onto my old work computer prior to our separation). Low and behold, she had multiple emails all from the prior two weeks back and forth with this former lover.
I confronted her about it, she called me controlling, said I'd never been her best friend, and said that he was, and that she couldn't take it any more and wanted a divorce.
Truthfully, I am beat. I feel exhausted, humiliated, and confused. I used to have such a high reverence for marriage, and tried so hard to do the right thing to save my first marriage, but I feel almost numb now.
Any advice?
No advice, I failed at saving my 1st M even though I DB'd for 2 years. Now 8 yrs later back with my 2nd M, though I am honestly not DBing a 10th of what I did the first time. DB did save me the first time around. So just wanted to say, youre not alone and welcome back though I know youd rather not be here.
Hi Hope2011,
Thank you for your response. I also am here to try my best at saving "me" as there is a lot of mistruth and false portrayals being used right now that really mess with my head. While W covers her tracks with this OM or just shows apathy, I'm labeling as "mean" or "controlling" for wanting time with her or for keeping up effort.
I think I jumped right into the tail end of my marital pattern. It seems like I am close to having to "drop the rope" in order to keep some semblance of sanity.
FL, gee-sus man, that sux.
Couple questions... understanding that we are hearing your side...
What might you have "overlooked" having become M to someone who spent $24K, causing you to go bankrupt?
How is this M the same as your 1st M?
How is this M different than your 1st M?
And finally... what do you want?
Welcome back to the board... I think...
Do what you have to do, we're here to support you.
Thanks Kaffe Diem. I knew it would be wise to go back to the DB site to be challenged.
She didn't cause me to go bankrupt, truthfully. We married, both upside down in our houses, she went unemployed, then her XH stopped paying CS on their 3 children, and I ended up working 3 jobs to try to make it, but we still sunk.
She has Bipolar D, but it was getting managed pretty well with meds. Impulsive behavior was present before - she was arrested for redirecting meds as a nurse, impulsive sexuality. Things were quieted. I knew of these vulnerabilities, but went ahead thinking we could work it out.
How are the 2 Ms the same? My W1 was mildly borderline, with great drama and need for attention. W2 also tends to be erratic with less consistent behavior. Same theme of some unpredictability when I came home. Same theme of less nurturant women. Same level of neediness developed over time on my part - neglecting my own self-care or GAL behavior.
It was a different M in that W2 was so much more devouted as a mother. To a fault, as in neglecting the M, but that was a sharp contrast.
All in all, I want love, I want to be in a R that feeds me, that helps me to grow as a person. W2 and I are different, and this sitch especially this past year has sucked, but I want her back and I want my M with her. If it doesn't work, then I want her and I to be in healthy better places.
Thank you!
Oh sweetie:
I knew of these vulnerabilities, but went ahead thinking we could work it out.
Here's your problem, right here.
You had a woman with a serious mental disorder, past evidence of drug abuse and inappropriate sexual behavior, who you broke up with one, and you married her after only 5 months back together??????? And you are asking us how to get her back, when you SHOULD be asking us to help you figure out what's wrong with you that you made such a BAD choice?
REally - don't you think you're worth having a SANE woman?
kml!!
Can't sleep - head racing, stomach churning. Is love ever rational?
I know - I'm heading back to do some individual work in counseling with a therapist who really challenges me. I am worth a sane woman, and I thought she was that.
I do still have hope for her, but I am very curious about why I'm in this sitch again... I'm 44yo now, times ticking by, and I would love to be in a loving R. Perhaps that same desparation or fear about being alone led me to jump to M with W2 instead of giving us enough time to truly discern what was right for us/me.
All in all, I want love, I want to be in a R that feeds me, that helps me to grow as a person.
And are you willing to sell yourself , in order to get that ???
If it doesn't work, then I want her and I to be in healthy better places.
I fixed that for you....
How long has it been since you were in a healthy, emotional place ?
Fiat, you have been around here a long time brother....
What would YOU tell another poster to do if you read that ???
It sux, I'm sorry, blah blah blah....
I would suggest that you take some time, and go back to DB 101 basics right now.
Read DB and DR again
Take some time to sit back and evaluate what YOU want in your life. Envision what you want YOUR future to look like.
What are the things about you, that you "sold off" to get where you are now ???
Find your mojo , and honestly assess if this situation really feeds your soul...
Thanks Mach1
I was here for a while much earlier, years ago - and I obviously forget about what worked for me.
It was an amazingly intense chaotic 1.5 years - my son broke his arm severely, wife and I had surgeries, building debt leading to current foreclosures and bankruptcies. I had to put my son's beloved dog down after it bit a neighbor child.
I'm horrified at where I am and how quickly I got here.
Truthfully, there isn't much more distance til bottom, and I do want to move back upward to break the surface and breathe again...
You're right - it would be good to reread those texts again. Even with stress the way it is, I'm sure there are things I could put into play to get back on my feet.
I have to add that I do think there is hope. When R was fine and balanced, there was a major positive effect on both W and me. Now that it is distressed, there is a major negative effect from it on both of us.
KML, I see your point about chronic issues, but I also have seen her at her best. I don't think it wise to pigeon-hole or limit her based on a diagnosis. I think we are all a bit flawed and all have great strengths as well.
Thx
G
You have been given great advice! as you know you would
I love the going back to DB 101 basics, GREAT plan!
Personally I feel you need to concentrate more on getting yourself back up,find your center, not sure exactly what that expression means, but I do know when i'm in it and when i'm not!
You work on what you feel you need to and let her work on her, I am sure she must know she needs to look at herself and her issues as well.
I know the pressure of making a second marriage work is prob more intense, it crosses my mind a lot- what if it happens again,,,,, but more important you need to feel its worth saving , you say you see positives, then that may be just what you need to gather the strength you need.
You can do this, you got up and dusted yourself off before, I saw you!
you can do it again, you know what you need to do this time.
Good luck friend xx
Perhaps that same desparation or fear about being alone led me to jump to M with W2 instead of giving us enough time to truly discern what was right for us/me.
Bingo
winner, winner, chicken dinner!
Thanks Karen, I agree. Right now, I am reeling. I clocked 2-3 hrs sleep last night, mixed amid waves of stress and racing thoughts. I have forgotten how this feels - yuck! I'm without my main tool for stress management - running - so I have to improvise quickly.
I went out and bought copies of DB, as well as codependency books. I remember giving away my DB books to others 2 years ago - confident that I was "done" with them. I am a fool.
Yes, the self-work is next. I need to perk up and get that going strong.
Was out to dinner with a friend, but was pulled away to do a TV interview. Young attractive reporter interviewing me in my office (I returned to work) but I felt no real rise. But I reminded myself that it was good to go through the motion, as it probably is not what I'd do in the M - I'd have raced back home to be by her side. Before this marriage, I would have worked to enjoy the moment.
I guess part of the lesson is that I'm responsible for my own happiness. I can't expect that from another person.
Just S12 and I together this weekend. Have to be okay with being uncomfortable with this marital distress.
Completely [censored] that you're going through this again, Fiat. You've reminded me how important it is to not let books like DB and DR gather dust even during the quiet times.
By the way, God does indeed heal the broken-hearted. Stay strong, man.
Thanks Alamo. I do believe in miracles, and boy have I been humbled lately.
KML, I get you. I rushed things, overlooked some likely problems, and settled all too easily.
What concerns me is how quickly I forgot my DB lessons. Looking back to that time, I remember a rough dating experience - nothing major, just infatuation followed by rejection. Merely did not work out, but then a few weeks later, W santered back into my life and I fell quickly AND didn't keep my self-work going.
I can recall some work-related stressors - especially the departure of a good male friend. That may be a big issue for me - I've experienced the departure of good male friends over the past 3-4 years (moves due to jobs/family) and slumped into a bit of a withdrawal pattern (e.g., why bother making new friends when they just leave?). Childish, I know.
I think good male friendships are important for a man to keep perspective on himself.
I forgot what I wrote that warranted a [CENSORED]. Sorry. I do not know it wasn't a bad word.
Starts with an s and a u - I keep forgetting and using it too!
In the future, I'll use 'vacuum' as a substitute.
Ha ha - that vacuums! Love it~!
Set up guitar and surf lessons. Various contact via telephone or fax shows her cold or angry toward me. W seems to think either that everything is my fault or that I'm blaming things on her mental health issues.
I tried to explain how I believe we've both made mistakes via our choices. But she seems unable to hear.
I am remembering this feeling and thinking that I need to cut off contact for awhile. Does dropping the rope sound like a reasonable idea at this time (Sep for 5 months, D talked about more frequently, W contacting X-BF).
A real-life friend has been strongly encouraging me to drop the rope and to start moving toward D. Without wanting to accept the need for a D, I have been trying to make less contact with W, yet still am doing so inconsistently - about every 2-3 days.
Been very close to throwing in the towel, just quitting on the M in the hope of stopping the pain. But that seems wimpy. And I doubt the pain would go away so easily.
Saw her on Wed to pick up mail - met at a university library - no allowance for convo, but still reved the racing thoughts. She looked rough, as I'm sure I did as well. But I told her that she looked hot, and handed her some facial products I'd ordered for her ~ 1 mo ago, when things were going better, and her D resolve wasn't so strong.
Made mistake of calling her on Sat 2/11 and left VM. She called back 30 min later and we talked for ~ 30 min, sharing about her horse-riding and some drama in her life. I merely empathetized, tried to keep it light, but messed up I think by telling her that I loved her. She got uncomfortable, talked about not wanting to get into it, that it hurt her head, so we said goodnight.
I went out to a bar to meet with 3 other folks. One woman was definitely interested, wanting to go home with me. I had a few drinks and left by myself. I remember clearly thinking "to thine own self be true." There will be many opportunities like that, but there is no need to add confusion to a confusing situation.
When I worry about the R, I notice a weird stress response - both arms going numb/tingly, nausea. The D diet has led to 17 lb loss so far. I need to get to the gym to make such change healthy and to ride the momentum of getting trimmer toward getting stronger.
Im terms of other GAL work, during guitar lessons or while practicing this week, playing has a nice way of taking my attention off things. Off to exercise to do more of the same. Other possible change may include a change in hairstyle and updating my clothes a bit.
Okay, a brief update.
I separated W and my cell phone services and a few other small bills. My thinking here was to keep our phone info separate (no temptations to snoop on my part) and to allow us each to taste the reality of being on our own.
Much less contact after a few heated texts/emails about splitting our possessions in a D process. She seemed very angry that I'd want some of the things I brought into the M back. Later she sent an apology email about demanding I give her more $ for phone bill and has not mentioned D again.
Last Tueday, W sent me an email that noted: "I feel the best thing for us is distance. I can't be swayed by your being loving, kind and giving to me. I fall for it every time. That is the man I love."
On Wed, she said she had mail for me. Instead of wanting to meet at a neutral site, she offered to come to my apartment when I noted I was home. Prior to her arrival, my adrenaline had been raised by my XW arriving with our son, her brother and her dog (I'd agreed to watch S12 and her dog while she went to an out-of-town funeral). They left, and I asked S12 to shower and read in his room.
W arrived, dropped my mail on the counter and raced to my master bathroom, walking thru my bedroom to get there. A GF later said W was obviously seeing what I was up to. I goofed by telling her she looked great, hugging her from the rear and smelling her hair. I asked her for a kiss, but she asked me to back up and left. Big goof - I know. PMA went south.
I sent text thanking her for bringing mail. Her response: whatever.
I noted that she looked hot. Her reply: Stop flirting w me.
I joked - Sorry, stiff upper lip, all professional here.
On Thur, I stupidly replied to her Tues email about wanting distance and noting her love for me, asking if she merely wanted to stay separated but distant or if she still wanted to meet with a D mediator soon. Her reply: Really
On Facebook, she hid her R status (from M), and deleted my S12 as one of her kids, as well as all pics of me. Gotta stop looking at her profile...
Still doing GAL work - able to run again now that knee is better, working out in gym, enjoyin guitar lessons, and work is going well. On Fri, started sleep meds (was only sleeping 2-3 hrs/night) and new antidepressant to lighten mood (had quit last summer durin a truly rough time). As GAL work, real-world GFs say I need to get out with other women and do things like dinners, convo, and dance lessons.
Any advice? It seems like things are speeding up or that at least some change is occuring. I get the feel that she is doing the "ILYBNILWU" thing, with a D still being pressed, but truthfully I have no idea what is going on in her head.
FL
Printed out the 37 rules and placed them on fridge and bathroom mirror for my review.
No contact for 3 days. Keep fighting myself to not follow dumb reasons to text or email.
At Mass today, I received communion on the very spot we were married. I prayed for a miracle, asked for God's will to be done, and avoided texting her that I was praying for us (did so twice in the Fall, with her communicating appreciation, but I'm almost 100% sure it'd just trigger anger/resentment now).
Guys, it may look like I have been here ages. I was on DB years ago for my 1st marriage, but have been away for 6 years or so.
This time is about my 2nd marriage. I'm feeling rather clueless and could use your help, please.
FL
Had my first DB phone session today - very helpful.
There is hope - but only if I give W exactly what she wants and I carry on with my life with genuine GAL.
I miss female companionship, and its only been about 5 weeks. Ugh!
Been reading and rereading the 37 rules...
I just noticed that she removed her surname (my last name) from her email signature/stamp. Now she's just identified by her first name.
PMA lowered. Need to run or work out after work...
Fiat...
slow down
let yourself process what is happening
and remember who you are, on the inside...what makes you YOU
that is what you need to get back to
that core
le
Thanks le,
I do indeed need to focus on me...and yes, I've forgotten a lot of who I am during these past wild 2 years - especially at the core. Not funny how much I changed to be the man for W. I was not true to myself. When I tried to be, I was conflictual or "controlling" in her eyes.
Need to figure out a compromise or to realize that perhaps it wouldn't have worked with her in the long run... I hope the latter is not true.
FL
Been feeling the need to make amends lately.
Finally sent off a letter of apology to a couple whose D was bit by my dog prior to W asking me to move out. No excuses, but I delayed my apology due to fear/not having the right words/my own Depression....til now. No matter what their response, I believe I've finally done the right thing. Tonight I go to apologize to my renters who have had to leave my house due to foreclosure. They are collateral damage from my M's financial consequences, but I'll be handing back their deposit to move forward with their lives. I just want both parties to hear my sincere apology.
This is part of my working on returning to my true self.
The crazy-maker worries about my sitch are quieting, thanks to improved sleep and GAL work. Best techniques so far are playing guitar and running.
I met a man today who divorced and remarried his wife - twice.
Interesting thing was that each divorce involved them taking turns being the WAS. He noted that the M was almost easy now that they'd worked through pretty much everything.
I'd expected to hear about several children (ties that bind), but they didn't have any.
In my sitch, my W and I broke off an engagement after 4 yrs together, now she wants a D after asking for a S for 8 months. Based on her anger and coldness and likelihood of OM, I think it's likely to happen. But she was involved w him before, broke it off and came back to me prior to our M.
Not sure if any of this means any more than a hill of beans.
It remains my hope to keep my positive changes going and to make the most of my life regardless.
Was on TV this morning for a news interview. When we were broken up before, it annoyed her when I was on TV, as folks would mention it to her.
My father is coming into town this weekend to look at homes. It'll be great to have my parents in town (if it works out). Family is a wonderful support system.
FL
You do things over and over that you know you shouldn't, contacting her, asking for a kiss, hugging her, etc.
Why?
Also you talk about random women you meet being attracted to you?
What's that about?
You ended one marriage only to get into another very quickly. It seems you might need time to focus on yourself and figure that out.
What do you think?
Hi Labug,
I think I've figured out that there's no quick fix to my sitch, no new person who can end my pain, that I merely need to be patient and focus on me. Hence the guitar lessons and workout/running efforts.
There were roughly 5 years between my 1st D and 2nd M. I can see how you might think that is quick, but it seems like a reasonable amount of time to wait for me. I firmly sat on the shelf after the first D, not dating for 1 year prior to dipping my toe into the dating pool again.
You're right it is is best for me to wait things out and focus on just me - my personal growth, my financial recovery, my son.
Reaching out for her - hugs, asking for a kiss, etc... iniitially, it was hard for me to adjust to how quickly things became negative. But now it is clear she wants nothing to do with me.
No real contact in 2 weeks (1 text about mail).
There were roughly 5 years between my 1st D and 2nd M.
Sorry, I missed that detail. Thanks for correcting me.
This is very difficult stuff. I am not usually very patient but this is teaching me that virtue.
No worries - I appreciate your comments - thank you. Patience is hard for me as well.