Starting a new thread since I reached 100. Here's the link to the first thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2208942#Post2208942Small signs of hope continue. After my last venting session, I'll start this post with some things that seem positive:
W is finally decorating the house (she's refused since the move because she didn't want to be here)
W initiated 2 separate conversations over the weekend. Just daily stuff but she hasn't done that in weeks.
W actually asked what I wanted to drink for dinner a few times this week. This seem silly but usually she'll get her's and the kids and never bother to ask me.
W actually thanked me for going to the store - she hasn't thanked me for much of anything in a long time.
W at least put one picture of me with family in the collage frame along with all her other pictures.
W has not taken down the few pictures of us that are in the house.
W has started making the grocery list again instead of refusing.
W has shown an interest in going to a church where she has been avoideing going for some time now.
W has never stopped wearing her wedding rings in the 18 months since the bomb.
Its still a very long road and I probably will continue some degree of detachment just to keep myself sane with the roller coaster of emotionss that I am dealing with almost daily.
At this point, the M seems to be in limbo as W works on herself and her life but I am only included as a financial necessity. But at least I can tell she is working on herself.
I continue my own path to live a life without fear and one that I can feel good about. Working to make myself a better listener (when the opportunity arises) and standing up for what I believe is the best for the family and not just doing whatever for fear of disappointing my W. All with the caviet of being compassionate and supportive.
Also taking Cat04's advice to review the MLC information to see if that's what I'm really living through at the moment. More later.
"W at least put one picture of me with family in the collage frame along with all her other pictures."
Good to see that you now view this ^^^^ as a positive. The other day you were in a completely different place.
"Its still a very long road and I probably will continue some degree of detachment just to keep myself sane with the roller coaster of emotionss that I am dealing with almost daily.
At this point, the M seems to be in limbo as W works on herself and her life but I am only included as a financial necessity. But at least I can tell she is working on herself.
I continue my own path to live a life without fear and one that I can feel good about. Working to make myself a better listener (when the opportunity arises) and standing up for what I believe is the best for the family and not just doing whatever for fear of disappointing my W. All with the caviet of being compassionate and supportive."
Your detachment and GAL are going to be key to maintaining your sanity over the long haul. You do realize it is going to be a long haul, right?
My W dropped the bomb back in September, we've been separated since November and we seem to be in some sort of limbo. It gets tiring and I often question myself whether it is worth hanging on. But then I see my W make a declaration that her "days of being a hermit are over" and I think, hmmm maybe she is starting to figure things out some.
But, as long as we see growth in ourselves and our spouses, it helps to continue to carry on. Wouldn't you agree?
Good on you, for listing the positives.
Focus on that. Stay motivated. It sounds like things are turning around for you, actually. From what I know about dealing with a WAS, I'd say be ready for a disappointment and don't let it get you down, because over all you are moving in the right direction.
Maybe you should set yourself some small goals and see if you can work toward those?
It sounds like W to church is one of those for you. What else?
2TP - Yes, trying to view the picture from a better place. Personally, I believe it is more for appearances and the kids than anything so its pretty easy not to get my hopes up.
And yes, very aware of the long haul. Its been 18 months since the bomb and she's been sleeping in another room for at least 5 months now. I think the realization of that and the emotional exhaustion was a big reason for my venting session on my last thread.
I believe that my W and I were in love when we married. Young and stupid about a lot of things but in love. I believe that somewhere inside my W is a beautiful caring woman. I see it in how she interacts with others. That's part of the pain. She is willing to show it other places but withholds all that from me. But I still believe she is worth fighting for and the promise I made on our wedding day is still valid in my heart and is not excused based upon her current choices.
Things happen for reasons which we may never know. I've certainly learned a lot about myself during this time. Things that have helped me face the ugliness of me. (listed in the former posts but I'll be glad to share my junk if anyone needs to hear it)
My IC talked to me about "temper" a while back. He spoke of temper in terms of "even-tempered", "good-tempered", "ill-tempered" etc. But he also explained how "temper" refers to the strength of steel.
Most often when steel is weak, it is not the steel itself but rather the amount of imperfections within the steel that will make it weak and cause it to break. When this happens, the steel can be reforged. To do this, it must be placed in the fire to burn away the imperfections so that the remaining steel can become stronger.
It hit home with me in how this "fire" is drawing out my imperfections so that I can work on them. Not that I'll ever be perfect (or even close) but feel I will be stronger.
AT - you're correct. Church is one of those goals. I've grown up going to church but looking over the past few years, I can see where my believes have turned from "religious" to a "relationship" with Christ. This is the core of my values. Part of DB says to look back at the happiest times of our marriages. When I look back, my W was an active servant and leader in many ministries. She had energy, joy and purpose. Along with the DB activities (which I just started 2 months ago) I've been able to hang on and at least manage through Christ-based beliefs of what love is.
Christ hung on a cross in pain and said "forgive them, they don't know what they're doing". Well, that's a pretty straight-forward example for me. Just like DB says, don't believe 1/2 of what you see or any of what you hear (I always get that mixed up). Then my W doesn't know what she's doing right now.
Ok, I got preachy. Sorry about that. I figure if David can go from wailing & compaining from one Psalm to praising God in the next, then I can go from a venting post to a "gotta get my act together" post.
OK, so some advice would be appreciated here...
As mentioned in previous thread, I had to cancel all of W's credit cards where she was an authorized signer on my accountsdue to excessive spending. We have already had to consolidate debt to manage the expenses and could not afford going deeper into debt. We'd talked multiple times but it did not curb her spending (trips, shopping, going out w/ friends etc.) This debt is still a major weight on our family and one that we struggle to deal with.
W did have one card in her name only that I did not touch. We didn't use it and it had a zero balance before Christmas. W needed to use it for gas on her travel to Christmas so I expected a few hundred to show up on it. Long story short, the balance on the credit card is well above what it should be. Last month there were many charges to Target and other stores along with a charge for W to get her hair done ($130 which I hear is somewhat normal for ladies?)
This month, W placed the credit card bill in the folder of bills I pay but removed the page that showed where the purchases were made. There were even more charges on the card and now it seems she expects me to just pay the bill for it.
I feel this needs to be addressed somehow. If not, I'm just being a doormat and covering her spending money however she wants and allowing more debit to impact the family.
***So any suggestions on the best way to approach this? I can't imagine the conversation will go well but it needs to happen and I want to at least minimize the damages.
W tutors some kids as well as her new job with her BFF (husband of former OM & EA). So she's got money coming in and I have not seen any of it used to help the family get out of debt. I still pay ALL bills & family expenses & entertainment.
Since that CC is in her name, she should be expected to pay it. The conversation WILL NOT go well because in her mind: 'this is the way things have always been, so what's changed?' the simple fact that she took out the itemized purchases page shows that she is aware that she did something wrong.
It very passive aggressive for her to just slip the bill in with other bills, as I'd you wouldn't notice.
I'm not an expert, but this is what I would say: "honey (or whatever else sweet name you call her), it seems your bill got mixed in with the others by mistake, here ya go" (hand it back to her). This isn't an attack, so she can't get defensive. She might get angry and demand that you pay it: "but you always pay all the bills!"
You have put yourself in the position to now make it clear to her that SHE is responsible for her own debt, and that she can't take advantage of you like this: "that CC is in your name, and only has charges from your spending. I will continue to pay bills that are family charges, but you are responsible for your own debt." (almost like explaining it to a teenager- so be prepared for a tantrum.)
Just my 2 cents. And btw- $130 is typical for a cut and color hair appointment
Even if the card is in her name, if you are in a community property state, I believe it's still a marital debt.
I wouldn't talk to her at all about it before you talk with a lawyer. It seems you were looking into that a while back.
I looked into one. Couldn't find one less than $200 for a consultation and just don't have the extra cash.
Also, not sure I want to go that route just yet. I think a conversation needs to happen between us before I go the lawyer route. "D" has not been discussed in quite a while and I'd rather not be the one to open the door the topic. I think a lawyer would definitely do that.
Purg - W has not paid any bills and we've not been in a situation like this in a while so I'm just going to have to be kind but direct on this. I will just ask her what her expectations are in regard to the additional debt she is creating and how she is using the money she is now making from her part-time job.....Should be a fun weekend....
First of all consulting with a L doesn't necessarily have to involve your W. You are just looking for advice and ideas on how to protect yourself and move forward without getting a D. There is nothing wrong with that.
Here's an idea about the $$ needed. Do you have anything laying around the house that you don't need or use; old video games or gaming systems, maybe a treadmill or something like that? You can sell the items on Craigslist, collect your cash and go get the consultation.
Just something to consider.
I met with a L for the first time yesterdy. I had a boat-load of trepidation before the consultation. I left feeling very good. He did not charge me a dime and W has no idea I did this.
Keep looking for a free consult. You will be glad you did this. BTW - I totally understand why you are hesitant, I was there too.
Thanks 2TP. I wasn't planning to involve my W in the lawyer discussions. I guess I was thinking that to force any type of arrangement of money could result in some type of legal process. Maybe not.
This feels like a no-win situation. If I do something to manage the money, I drive a deeper wedge in our relationship. If I don't do anything our finances get worse.
Maybe that's how I'll explain it to my W. Neither prospect is good but I can honestly say that my action is not trying to make our M worse but actually trying to remove other stresses that continue to plague us.
I'm already thinking its going to be a bad weekend and I need to not think that way. Thanks for all the suggestions.
Did you check with you EAP?
If your W is spending money that belongs to both of you irresponsibly and you try to protect yourself and your children, that's setting a boundary. Those who are used to busting boundaries usually don't like them but that's their problem.
For you labug!!
"So do what you think is best and let your [W] deal with [her]own emotions. Its all you can do." (message to myself!)
Did you check with you EAP?
I did check our EAP website. It only offered articles and links to state specific info. Somewhat helpful but no referral info to a lawyer that I coud see. I'll keep checking though. Thanks for staying on me.
quick journal entry:
Had to work late tonight & got home about 11pm. Found out both kids were spending the night at friend's houses. W was upstairs watching a movie (laptop close by as always). We exchanged a few general pleasantries and then I said good night as I am exhausted.
Its just a bit sad that this is the first night in maybe a year that the 2 of us are alone in the house for an evening. I wanted to bad to talk to her and figure things out. But I held back. It needs to be when she wants to. Hopefully that day will be soon.
I'm really trying to be calm. W finished the picture collage. I was trying to be positive that I made the frame at all.
But I just noticed that she put a picture of the OM in there too!!!!! Its a picture of Him in a pool with my D, his D and 2 other girls my D use to danced with.
Really? She has the nerve to post his picture in our house so I have to look at it? Ok, this just seems like a new level of heartless.
Do I say something? Don't I have the right to not have this guy's picture in my house?
OK, W is sick with fever & other messy stuff. Not bringing it up tonight. I may wait until I get back. That way its not me laying into a difficult topic and then running away.
Also for some reason I'm kind of at a peace with it. Not completely but I'm certainly not traumatized like I was when I found the other pic of her & him.
Also, this OM's wife is coming in 2 weeks for a visit just by herself. What gives with this? She talks to this lady EVERY day and still holds a thing for her husband? I just don't get it.
But the good news is. I don't have to get it. I can just live my life.
I'm really trying to be calm. W finished the picture collage. I was trying to be positive that I made the frame at all.
But I just noticed that she put a picture of the OM in there too!!!!! Its a picture of Him in a pool with my D, his D and 2 other girls my D use to danced with.
Really? She has the nerve to post his picture in our house so I have to look at it? Ok, this just seems like a new level of heartless.
Do I say something? Don't I have the right to not have this guy's picture in my house?
Hey CES, does your W know you know about the OM? Are you positive there is a R with the OM?
If the answer is yes, then here is
my opinion.. and it is only my opinion.You need to set a boundary. In a calm, non-confrontational way, explain to your W that it is offensive to you to have a picture of the OM in the house that you two share. That you find it upsetting to have to look at it every day and that you'd like her to please remove the picture of the OM from the collage.
If she refuses, then you need to be prepared for that and know what your next move will be.
What do you think might be your next move if things don't play out as you would want them to?
"But the good news is. I don't have to get it. I can just live my life."That is correct. Just live your life!!
Thanks 2TP, there was definitely an EA. I found notes my W had hidden (back in my snooping days). The notes listed dates they had texted back and forth, and also chat sessions. The notes start with "locking eyes" right before my family moved her (I'd already moved for my job). The chats & texts lasted for a couple months then it wrapped up with something about a blow up, and not contacting the other for a very long time. Not sure if the OM said it or my W.
Then this past October I found a picture she had hidden of the two of them. It was printed in black and white on printer paper so it wasn't an actual photograph. She must have printed it from online somewhere.
I confronted her about that. She said it was only an old infatuation and that she knew the "grass wasn't greener". Then she went on to tell me how self I am and how awful her life has been with me. It was one of the few times I've ever really lost my temper. I actually yelled and told her to stop talking. It was a very bad night. Also, she was sick when I confronted her so that wasn't too nice of me. But I actually kept very calm when I brought it up. I didn't loose it until she started going off telling me how selfish I was.
Since then I have pulled back been found the DB book. I've seen some good things (listed at beginning of post).
But seeing that she openly put this guys picture up in our house and its hanging right as I go into the bedroom (that she no longer chooses to share with me).
I agree with your boundaries. She is sick again tonight so I don't plan to repeat that episode. I leave on Monday to go see my mom and go to her doctor appointment. Rather than bring it up and then run off, I'm going to wait until I get back.
This OM's wife is coming for a visit the week of the 20th. I can hardly believe she has a picture of her "best friend" husband by himself (not with his wife) in a collage of pictures that have only our kids and her "girl friends" (and of course the token family picture).
Is a boundary I will set. and I will mention the perception could give her friend while she's here.
Oh yeah, and I get to tell her about not paying her credit card for her. fun fun. Something tells me these conversations will not "make the path home smooth" but I truly feel they need to happen.
I will not force or require her to do anything. I will only tell her how the picture makes me feel and that I am unable to pay her credit card debts for her. Then I will do my best not to let it escalate.
At this point my marriage is only a facade so maybe things need to be shaken up a bit.
forgive all the typos. a little to frustrated to proof-read...
Thanks for the quick synopsis.
"Oh yeah, and I get to tell her about not paying her credit card for her. fun fun. Something tells me these conversations will not "make the path home smooth" but I truly feel they need to happen.
I will not force or require her to do anything. I will only tell her how the picture makes me feel and that I am unable to pay her credit card debts for her. Then I will do my best not to let it escalate.
At this point my marriage is only a facade so maybe things need to be shaken up a bit."
Uh, I think you may want to handle the two issues as separate conversations. Taken together, she might assume that you are being vindictive or retaliatory, (i.e. I don't like how the picture makes me feel oh and BTW I'm not paying your CC bill).
Man, that is a tough one to deal with but again I think they should be addressed separately.
You're right on that. Thanks for pointing it out.
Just trying to look out for you, Brother!
Thanks 2TP. Its greatly appreciated.
journal entry:
Last night was rough. I felt that old feeling of despair and misery like when the bomb was first dropped. I handled it much better but the feelings are still heavy. Took a long time to fall asleep because of the thoughts and scenarios running through my head.
Even when I woke up, these same thoughts were the first thing to come rushing into my head. I don't want to be like this. It doesn't help and I know it. At least I know I can work myself out of it faster than I use to. So what are my actions from here?
Today: Get laundry and pack for my trip. Finish up grocery shopping. Take the kids to buy cards & a gift for my W b-day on Tuesday.
Monday: Work and drive to my nephews to spend the night.
Tuesday: Coffee with a college buddy and then drive the rest of the way to my parents house.
Wed thru Friday - Spend time with family & friends and support my mom as she finds out about here cancer & treatment.
Sat - drive back home.
So that's the functional stuff. Now I need to figure out how to deal with the thoughts/emotions running through my head & heart. I'm running out of energy for all this. Even though I love my W, how do I keep living in the same home with her when I am constantly rejected and cast aside? Its taking its toll on me.
I also thought about the lawyer thing. I'm sure if I asked my brother, he would loan me the money for a consultation. That would at least get me prepared for how to move forward with a "D" if necessary. Sometimes I think a separation may be the shock W needs.
Ces I know how hard it is to be under the same roof but separated. Going on 8 months. Once you stop feeling rejected it will become easier on you. So detach and moving out is not a good idea. Initial L consults are usually free?
Good luck with mom.
Priority One - the kids - they'll be grown and one gone before you can blink. Make their childhood memories the best you can.
Focus, focus, focus!
I am doing the roommates thing too. But I have bounderies and agreements.
1 - she moves out when D18 graduates,(make some kind of schedule, even if it's only tentative) It'll give you some forward looking dates.
2 - No dating if you're in the same house. My XW's OP lives in another state (he's married) and she makes a trip about once a month (although it's been a couple months now - hmmm?)
Look, everyone here knows the toughest part of every sitch is dealing with the emotions. You have to "detach" your emotions from your W and the sitch. I know, it's hard and crazy and seems impossible, but I did it, and it won't kill you. However things turn out, look forward to either possibility, and have faith that you'll find happiness again no matter what. Your happiness does not depend on someone else.
"Where there is fear, there is no faith. Where there is faith, there is no fear." (St John Vianny)
"
Hey CES... I've been thinking about you all morning. I'm just now able to get to my computer to post this.
Currently I'm working on my 7th thread since I started posting on this forum. However, my 5th thread has so much good stuff contained within that I thought you might benefit from checking it out. Here is the
LINK: In a span of 9 days we had over 100 posts, so it was an incredibly active thread full of amazing insight and wise counsel. In this particular thread we covered topics including why men seem more likely to reengage a failing marriage vs. women, depression and the use of anti-depressants, detachment and being a doormat, taking inventory of our own past transgressions, the last resort technique, the length of time before things may turn for the better, GAL and guilt, and a ton of other really good stuff in between.
Check it out and see if there isn't something in there for you to put to use now.
Wishing you well! Hang in there!
Thanks for all the support. It truly helps. 2TP, I'll be at my parents for the next week so I'll have plenty of time to read through those threads.
OK, this came to me today and I want to see what you all think. Now, keep in mind, one of my issues has been conflict avoidance...
Should I even acknowledge the picture at all? If I am truly detaching, should I bother to give it a 2nd thought? The idea occured to me that I shouldn't even acknowledge this guy as competition. His picture being there should mean nothing to me. The kids won't think a thing about it. My W is looking for a reaction most likely so maybe I just GAL and let her wonder?
Today she's been really trying to push my buttons. At lunch she said she was going for the Giants because 1) there is a guy on the Giants who played HS ball with my nephews and 2) the Giant QB was cuter than the Pats QB to her.
Later on in front of me she starts telling our S that the HS drum group that played at half-time is instructed by her friend (The OM) and wasn't that so cool that he was part of that and how it was the best part of the show....
I ignored it all and let it roll off my back. If she wants to be that spiteful and mean then that is her choice and I don't have to be powerless against it.
2TP, I read your signature every time I see your post. I've been picking the load up way too much lately. The words "Father forgive them because they don't know what they're doing" washed over me earlier today. My W really doesn't know what she's doing. Sure in her mind, she's clear as a bell about whatever it is she's trying to do, but its not the woman I married.
I'm gonna miss my kids this week but it will be good to be with family who cares about me. And this week is about mom. She has her follow up appt on Thursday.
Ces, it might appear to you that she's rubbing your face in it,
But you cannot really know that for sure. For your own emotional health, try not to let it get under your skin.
My XW went to visit OM once back in the early days of the sitch and came back with a team shirt from a game they went to, even brought one home for S13. It would bother me at first when she wore it, but I just ignored it and didnt react. Now I rarely if ever see that shirt and S13 never wears his.
The point I am trying to make is the irritation may be all over nothing. She may or may not realize if certain things bother you. Who cares? This is all part of detaching and it's for your own good. Not only will you begin to feel less pain, you will gain confidence and peace of soul, and that will make you look more attractive too.
Hang in there man; this sh!t doesn't go on forever.
Rick Said: Initial L consults are usually free?
Unfortunately, I've not found one of those around where I live. The hourly rate seems to apply to the initial meeting for the few I've check out.
IAP Said: The point I am trying to make is the irritation may be all over nothing. She may or may not realize if certain things bother you. Who cares? This is all part of detaching and it's for your own good. Not only will you begin to feel less pain, you will gain confidence and peace of soul, and that will make you look more attractive too
And its a good point. I think my approach to not mention it at all or react is actually paying off. I saw the same "cycle" today that I have referenced before. This is the cycle where my W will be rude for a few days and then turn around and do or say something nice.
She called me today and told me she didn't know why but it didn't dawn on her last night when I said "good night" that I would be gone for a week. So she was calling to tell me to drive safe and have a good visit with my family. She also asked that I let her know when I got into my nephews tonight so she would know I made it Ok.
So regardless of how she acts, I will continue to detach and work on being who I choose to be.
Made it up north and even got a little snow. Wonderful reminder of why I moved south!
Journal stuff:
Good trip. Was able to visit with 2 nephews who are in college. One even let me stay at his house. Standard college house shared by 5 guys. I opted to not take a shower there and just wanted until I got to my parent's house.
Spent an hour Tuesday morning having coffee with a college buddy. He's one of those friends you can just pick up with after long periods of time. He lost his W to ALS this past summer. We share similar struggles for different reasons.
Yesterday was W's b-day. She went to lunch with a friend. Then D got sick at school so they spent the rest of the day at home. Got a txt from W thanking me for the present. I didn't directly get her anything. We've not exchanged gifts for a year now. But I fund what the kids want to get. My D knows her mom very well and picked out a silver ring my W had been talking to others about.
I was surprised she thanked me. Replied that she was welcomed and that our D had picked it out.
I sent txt to W this morning asking if D was feeling better. She actually called back. D stayed home again and W had had a conference with one of D's teachers. Standard stuff, no issues. The nice part was that she called to tell me about it.
I am feeling good about not brining up the pick of OM. In other situations I would have felt anxiety because I wasn't dealing with something. This time, I feel that I am rising above something that doesn't warrant my attention and it feels pretty good.
More family time tonight with parents & siblings which is very nice.
Journal entry:
Very thankful I was able to take the week off to be with my parents. Mom is holding up pretty well after her appointment and she was very grateful all her kids were there with her (I'm the only one that's not in the same town).
Continue to talk with W and kids each day and keep W up to date on the happenings here. W even offered some questions to ask the doctor regaarding Mom's cancer.
Yesterday, I had breakfast with a friend from here. W and I use to do a LOT with him & his W. Our Ws were actually best of friends. Since my W's changes they have grown apart. I know very little of why and most is through my friend the H.
My friend is good to ask about us but his advice is typical stuff like I've been too kind, I need to lay down the law with W and that he wouldn't have offered the patience I have to W. Needless to say, I don't share a lot with this guy, but I do know he cares.
Did say that even though we are not working actively on our marriage, there are positive signs and I shared a few items from when I started this post.
Well, this guy decides to write W a note saying he was praying for her and our marriage. It was meant to be nice but W got very upset by it. Wanted to know what we talked about and why this guy would reach out when "they have written her out of their lives..."
I stayed calm. I told her I was with my parents but we could talk later. I then turned the conversation to my son's basketball game and what my parents were doing for the kid's valentines. This was my "as if" 180.
Thanks to DB/DR, it dawned on me that W's relationship with these people is not my problem and I have honestly not been part of what drove them apart. I started to question what I had told my friend but honestly, I have the right to talk about what goes on in my life and I did not bad-mouth my W. I did explain the honest situation but that was it. Honestly, my friend did most of the talking as he and his W are both losing their jobs due to gov't cut backs (both in the defense contrating world).
I also realizied I started to go into "fix it" mode and contacted my friend. Just said I knew his intentions were good but to check with me before sending things as they can sometimes cause more stress in our relationship. Of course, I then realized this was stepping into managing her relationships as well. Geesh, this stuff gets ingrained sometimes. Oh well. I can't change what I did. I'll learn as I go but I'm tired of beating myself up. Its done me no good.
I also called W again a little later while I was in the store to confirm the candy the kids like for my parents. The conversation was normal and civil.
I drive home tomorrow. As far as Valentines go, I don't think I'll even get W a card this year. Seems pointless.
Its been a good visit. My brother & sister make me laugh like no one else. Even got a few games of scrabble in with my pop. (he likes to make up words...)
Never know how life with be with W but whatever happens, I'll deal with it when I get there. W's friend, the one she works for, is coming in the week of the 20th. Need to mentally prepare myself for that one. I've never spent much time around this lady so should be interesting. She's nice enough and I'm trying not to think of what all my W has said to her about our issues.
Off to enjoy the last evening with my family for a while.
Good for you- not bad mouthing your W to the mutual friend. I have shared my sitch with a few friends... never more than just telling the truth... but H still thinks that I'm telling everyone what a horrible person he is. My thought is: "well, if telling the truth paints you in a bad light- that's not my fault."
I know you didn't like playing damage control with the note that was sent to your W- but like you said, she's now responsible for her relationships with other people. It's funny how things we used to do out of respect and 'having each other's backs' for our S, are no longer our job- and can be seen as a bad thing from the WAS.
Really sorry your mom is having to go through this- it's great that you can be with her and your family to support each other. Enjoy some fun times with your siblings!!
Great job, ces!
One friend of mine kept telling me my H was going to think D was a breeze because I was going too easy on everything. Well, D hasn't been filed. I see no reason to do things out of anger just because that's the way most people handle this sitch.
I don't see her much anymore.
Back home. The reception was typical. W said "hi" without really looking at me. Son gave me a hug as he was running around with a buddy and D9 was busy watching a movie with W so she barely acknowledged me when I hugged her.
But I'm ok. I had no expectations of W coming home (except maybe bad stuff so it wasn't hard to deal with what I got). As far as D9 goes, I think this is really harder for her than we know and this is how she's having to deal with it. I know not to pressure her or make a big deal of anything. Later on she came and sat next to me as we watched some of the grammy's.
W had been busy while I was gone. I had suggested we set aside some money from tax return to finish painting the house. Well, she took it to heart and bought a few color samples and had painted them in 3 different rooms. We talked some about the colors and I encouraged her choices and let her know which ones I liked. She also hung the valences in our bonus room and D9's closet (traded a closet door for a sheer curtain and hanging beads...very cool stuff for our D9).
Later in the evening I addressed the issue with our friend contacting her. She had asked what we had talked about that would prompt this guy to contact her. I told her I said the following:
No change in our marriage and we are not really working on it right now.
We function ok with the kids
W is active in organizing and decorating the house
W has asked to visit other churches
And I left it at that. W tried to act as if it didn't matter but she's really hurting. She feels her friend and her H who I had breakfast with, have written her out of their lives. In a way, they have but not because they don't love her but because of how W has treated her friend. Unfortunately W can't see this. I ended the conversation by saying that her friend really did miss her. W said she didn't believe it. W is seeing life though a lense of misery and anger, but that is her issue to deal with.
The H of the couple mentioned that my W had actually sent a letter to her friend recently but after reading it he said it was very sad because she showed no accountability for how she is acting or treating them. Its very sad to see how W's relationships are changing and she's losing the ones that were close to her and narrowing in on the couple friends from back in our last home whom she came to know just in the year before the move.
I really want to help somehow but have no idea how to do that or even if I should. Most likely she has to deal with her own relationships and the consequences of how she handles them. I hurt for her but this isn't mine to fix.
For me, I keep going back to the quote from MLK, Jr.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that."
This is my best chance to support my W and also move to being the best person I can be.
On another positive note. I've been praying that my W would have some positive friendships enter her life. The friend who helped with the paint is the lady who sparked W to visit their church. This lady & her husband also host a home bible study group for their church. I'm hoping that this is an answer to prayer and that she will be a positive influence for W. But again, long, slow road...
I really want to help somehow but have no idea how to do that or even if I should. Most likely she has to deal with her own relationships and the consequences of how she handles them. I hurt for her but this isn't mine to fix.
Asked and answered, by YOU! Great job.
Thanks lb, its a constant thing to remind myself. It really is retraining my brain how to think and respond. Tough stuff but kind of cool at the same time...
journal stuff,
No realy drama since coming home. Yeah. That also means our "marriage limbo" continues. Feels like we've been in a holding pattern for too long and we need some type of catalyst to move us along. Gotta admit, when I think about it, it worries me what that catalyst might be. So back to brain-training and not thinking about it.
Little success item...S13 had a b-ball game last night. We all went and watched. D9 sat between me and W and actually leaned her head on me most of the time and played games with my phone. I was very thankful to see her comfortable to show attention towards me with W around. That doesn't happen a lot so I just filed it away mentally as a something to be thankful for.
W called this me this morning after I got to work. A guy is coming to the house today to check our roof. She asked me if I had any concerns that she needed to bring up. Amazing that she asked my opinion. I mentioned a couple things and thanked her for taking care of it.
Feel like there is very little to update as there is very little change in the sitch. We function on daily stuff, speak when necessary and don't talk about our M. I continue to struggle between being patient and looking for that catalyst I mentioned before.
Kids wanted to make V-Day cards for us so I didn't have to take them to the store. Also, did not get W a card or anything. I don't expect one either. I think we'll just let this day roll by like the rest.
Other stuff. My mom starts chemo today. Great way to spend V-day, eh? Already spoke with her this morning than txted my brother to thank him for being there (I have an AWESOME big brother). Will have the kids call her tonight to check on her and thank them for the V-day stuff she sent them.
ces, remind me what you're doing for yourself.
What helps make ces feel like ces?
Happy V-Day to an awesome dad and a beautiful soul!
I'm renaming it Victory-Day for all us LBsers!!!
Thanks Purg - Happy "Victory" Day to you too! Except for my kids, I'm ignoring that other "V" holiday thats going on today.
lb - I'd say the things that I am doing for myself are far more internal than external. There are some changes in what I'm doing externally but its being driven by internal stuff.
I've been shown God my whole life. My relationship with Him is the core of what makes ces, ces.
Its extremely frustrating to realize that struggles often are what make us grow rather than easy living. (its one of those "once I'm in heaven" conversations that I'm sure God will finally articulate to me clearly why it works this way).
I work to keep myself centered in the fact that God can use this sitch to help me be better and also that he's walking with my W down a path that she needs to go.
When I really look at who God is, its more clear who He wants me to be. Throughout history, God tells us he wants our hearts and from our hearts our actions will be sound. King David even said that God doesn't want our physical sacrifices but our hearts.
So when I think what my heart needs to be, I remember the story of the prodigal son. He wanted his own way, his own money and he wanted it now. The son made his choice and he went off. Eventually he wasted it all and was left with nothing and no one to support him. At this point he finally decided he'd go be a servant for his dad, not even claiming to be his son but just to work for him and get a paycheck.
Here's the picture... The father "sees the son at a distance and runs to him". The father allows his son to make his own choices but is diligently watching for his return as he lives his life. Then when the choice to return is made, he welcomes his son home and throws a party! And the son is amazed and thankful beyond belief...
That's who I want to be. The father had the strength to live his life AND forgive and restore a relationship very important to him.
And I have to throw this in as well. There's another son. He's not so happy about his brother's return. The whole "party" thing ticks him off and he goes off and pouts. He wants justice. He wants his brother to pay. He wants his dad to show everyone that he's the rightful favorite.
My struggle is I find myself being the brother sometimes. I want vengence. I want people to see me as "right" and as the one who was treated unfairly. But that feeling never brings me happiness and I don't feel like what ces is or can be.
So how does this play out...
When W is bitter and cutting with her words, I choose to respond with kindness because I am kind.
When W is thoughtless and inconsiderate, I try to be considerate because its who I want to be.
When my W tells me all the awful things I am, I remember I have a God who made me for a reason and sees me as "good". I choose to believe the creator of the Universe instead of a hurting and wounded soul.
Being more at peace with myself, I am now more open to new relationships and making friends because I value myself rather than see myself as a failure and someone people wouldn't want to spend time with.
I talk to my kids about as many things as I can and am so thankful that my S13 even tells me about the tough sex and drug topics that come up at school with his friends.
I make a point to check in with friends and see how they are doing, more aware than ever that we all are dealing with crap.
I don't do any of these perfectly and in some cases, I have a long way to go. But these are things that make ces be at peace with ces. thanks for making me ask the question of myself, labug.
I'd love to hear what you're doing as well....
journal entry:
Here's an example of the brain-training.
Son had questions about his data usage last night. So I went online today to check how its been based upon some things he's using his phone for. No issue.
So, here's where I got myself into trouble. Yes, I did it. I checked my W's phone for calls & txt msg activity. Found that W has started txting OM again. Now, this may be no big deal as she now works part-time for her friend and OM (friend's H). She organizes stuff for them and does basic computer input. So its not uncommon that they have to communicate. Also, these txt messages started after she started working for them. No phone calls.
The brain-training here is stopping myself from going down a path of creative stories and thinking I'm being played the fool. This may still be what is happening but it does not change who I am.
So now, instead of driving my own thoughts down into the valley of death, I am making a conscious effort to redirect my thinking to what is fact and fact only. I also am working to accept what I can control and remind myself that her choices do not define me or my value. Another thought is that if I act as if she is trustworthy, will she live up to that expectation or take advantage of me? She has to live with her choice. It won't change me.
This is just some hard stuff but I'm getting better at it. But this is also an example of where I struggle between patience and seeking a catalyst. Should my 180 be confronting my concerns given that I seldom did that in the past? There is such a big part of me that wants to tell W's friend about the picture I found in October and the notes about their online chats back in summer of 2010. But I feel that is seeking justice more than healing. So I don't as my motive is more selfish.
OM's wife is coming Monday to spend the week with us. Not really looking forward to that at all. Very curious to see if this lady notices her husband's pic in the collage frame my W put together and what her response may be.
Wonder what the evening will be like as we celebrate V-Day with kids but not with each other....
Journal entry:
OK, gotta admit I'm a little surprised. Got home this evening and W had prepared steak, sweet potatoes and veggies for dinner. I grilled the steak 7 potatoes for us and we had a nice dinner.
She did a great job getting the kids some fun things for V-day. The funniest was a lighter in the shape of an AK-47 for my son. (miniature of course). It was hilarious and awesome. just want my son would think was cool. She got my D these dry-erase markers that work on glass & mirrors. She'll have a blast with these. I made sure to say how cool these items where and point out that their mom had done it.
The surprising part was that W got me a goodie bag as well. It had mints, chocolates w/ caramel (my favorite) and big bag of peanut m&ms. (another favorite).
She also made cards for all 3 of us. she cut out a heart shape on card stock, did a water color on one side and wrote a note on the other. For mine she wrote "Thanks for all you do for us. Happy V-day".
For a brief moment I felt guilty for not getting here anything but I let it pass. I thanked her sincerely for the card & gift and left it at that.
I cleaned up the kitchen for everyone and once they were settled to watch their TV show, I went for a run.
Its odd, I see what she did as a very nice gesture, but I am not in the least feeling like its an action of reconciliation from her. Maybe that's my detachment working. I was focused so hard this afternoon to get beyond her texting OM, that I was in a good place coming home.
The road is still long and I still need a lot of training.
CES - That was a very nice gesture on the part of your W. Could it be that your W's love language is Acts of Service or Gifts? People often speak to others in their own love language instead of the language of the person they love.
So, if your W's love language is Acts of Service, is there something you could do for her that would speak her language? Could you do this in a way that wouldn't be perceived as pursuit by your W but allow you to fill her love tank?
Don't know if you've read the 5 Love Languages but there is a lot of good insight in the book. Check it out, if you haven't done so already.
Thanks 2tp, It may be. My W has always been the type of person who walks into a room and looks to see what needs done.
Its interesting though that she has complained since the bomb that she has "done all these things" and feels disappointed that God has not made her life better. As such, she has stopped these acts of service in a large way.
I have read the book and struggled reading it as it was hard for me to pinpoint what my W's love language is. If I'm guessing, I would say its getting gifts.
Her birthday was last week and while I didn't directly get her a gift, I did help the kids buy her a nice ring she had picked out. She had listed "money for ring" on the b-day list she e-mailed outt to the family. I just had to talk to my D9 to help me pick the right one out. I think she was pleasantly surprised by it and part of me feels this V-day gift is in response to that.
So if getting gifts is her love language, any suggestions on what I could due that wouldn't be pursuing? I'm a little stuck on that one. I'll pull the book off the shelf and brush up.
Again, I acknowledged her efforts both for my gift and what a great job she did for the kids. But I don't want to blow this out of proportion and scare her off. Still feel ike the main area we need to see some progress is just having conversations.
Well you definitely would not want to over do it. And gifts can be tricky. I would definitely make sure that gifts was her love language though because what you described sounds more like acts of service to me.
Acts of service are easier to achieve on the down low because it can be something as simple as bringing in the groceries, running an errand, completing a honey-do, etc. And the more of these you can do while still GAL and detaching, the better. You would be kind of filling her love tank by stealth.
The next holiday where a gift would be warranted in mothers day in May. That is several months off. Maybe if you worked through your children as you did for V day then perhaps you could get her another gift.
Anyway just some thoughts that struck me after reading your most recent post.
Good luck!
Acts of service can be easier to achieve, without being too pursuing. Like he ^^^^ said, mothers day is coming up- there's LOTS of opportunities for service gifts. The first thing I thought of- was hiring a professional cleaning service to come in a do a 'spring cleaning'. I know I would love to have my house deep cleaned for me, so all I would have to do is the 'maintaining cleaning'. Massages, mani/pedi's are also good... But if her LL is acts of service, doing something for her so she doesn't have to do it- would speak much louder to her.
(I did a LL seminar with H last summer before the bomb, and something that has stuck with me is the fact that if we use our partner's LL in a negative way- it is like draining their love tank. For example: mine is Words of Affirmation. When my H says: "wow, dinner is great", it makes me feel really good (such a simple statement that usually gets overlooked) but when he says: "uh, next time- can you put more salt in this"- I take it as personally offensive and get really upset, even though he probably intended it as just a simple suggestion. Knowing the LL is important so you can do the things that fill their love tank and AVOID the things that drain it. Just some thoughts I wanted to share
)
Thanks 2 & P. I had mentioned earlier that W has recentlys shown an interest in decorating and painting. Now that she's picked the colors, I think a big thing will be getting the painting done. Our entry way is an open 2-story area so that's going to be a little tricky to paint due to height and stairs. I think that will be a good service act. Another is we both hate the tile backsplash in out kitchen. Some of the tiles have little flower pots painted on them. Its just not a look we like. W has said she'd prefer just plain white tiles.
That will be a bit of a messy project to get into and once I do, I'll need to move fast so we can keep using the kitchen. But that's another opportunity.
And more current, our kitchen faucet is leaking so I'll be replacing that this weekend.
I actually had a list of "to do's" from when we first moved and I got through all of those. But at the time, W didn't care much and anything I did would irritate her. Maybe that's changed.
journal entry:
dinners are so weird. All 4 of us sit at the table, same spots we've sat at for years. W sits across from me and avoids eye contact. I make it a point now to talk to the kids about their day and try and pull as much info out of them as possible - in a fun way. We have laughs and do pretty well.
I can't rememeber who on the board first mentioned the "shark eyes". I've definitely seen those when its just us. But at dinner time, they are extremely distant and somewhat vacant in appearance. Not sure where W is going off to mentally but she's going off somewhere. No since in speculating because I have no idea and the stuff I'd come up with wouldn't help me much anyway.
I've seen many fellow LBSers here who have a big challenge of how their S has abandoned their kids. I can be fortunate in that is not my sitch. My W is extremely involved with the kids. Sometimes it appears to the point of a competition.
It often feels like W arranges time so that the activities are just the kids and her and I'm not included. Example was last night she was making dinner and assigned tasks to the dinner so both D9 and S13 were helping her. In a way, this is great, good learning opportunity for the kids. But I'm not included. Later, I see W posts on facebook how she and the kids were having "mongolian beef" for dinner. Even though I was there, to her, its seems I wasn't.
Guess this is yet another opportunity to detach and move on. She will do what she will do. But right now, the pain still hits. Maybe not as bad, but it still hits.
One thing that did catch W's attention. D9 has a school dance this Friday. W is a chaperone. D9 mentioned that the 2 of them are going to dinner afterwards with a friend and her mom. W had not mentioned this.
S13 has a buddy who is having a b-day party. I asked S13 at dinner if it would be Friday or Saturday night. He wasn't sure. W kind of butted into the conversation saying they didn't have details yet and that she'd take care of it.
I responded saying that was fine but if W & D9 are going to dinner and S13 is at a party the same night then I was going to make plans to do something myself.
She didn't say anything but it seemed to catch her off guard. In the past, I didn't do much outside of family so this is a change for her. I have to admit I enjoyed the surprised expression from her, however brief it was.
4 days until W's buddy gets into town. Still not quite sure how to mentally prepare for this. I've spent very little time with this lady. She's not been to our house before to visit and the longest I've ever been with here was a group dinner with the parents of the dance group my D9 was with. That was about 3 weeks before the bomb. It was our 18th anniversary and W still acted very happy to be with me. Ah memories...
"She didn't say anything but it seemed to catch her off guard. In the past, I didn't do much outside of family so this is a change for her. I have to admit I enjoyed the surprised expression from her, however brief it was."Good for you! Keep her guessing, and wondering, and guessing, and wondering......
ohhh.. i know the vacant eyes. my H use to have that look all the time when he was here. physically he was with us but emotionally.. definitely checked out. it was painful to be around him. i haven't seen that look in a while because now that he's gone.. he doesn't get to see the kids everyday so when he does see them.. he just hugs them really tight and tells them how much he misses them.
yes! make plans for yourself! what do you think you'll do?
Thanks 2 - I've got to figure out some different things to keep her guessing.
Hey bf, you're right. It is painful. I'm thankful she's still in the house, but the daily indifference can be exhausting. Some days I think I'm detaching ok but then others it just drains me.
The party my son is going to is on Saturday so he and I will go out and see a movie together tonight. We'll have fun.
On other matters, I went online yesterday and found several Al Anon meetings that occur in my area. That should give me a few to try out. I probably won't start attending until March at this point due to a busy schedule.
Because of my job, I'll have to go in the evenings. So my question is, Do I tell my W what I'm doing? I don't want to tell her much but at least that I'm going to a meeting that my IC recommended.
Last night at dinner after we prayed W said she wanted to talk to the kids. She talked to them about needing their help. She explained she was working 2 to 4 hours a day now at home helping her friend and she didn't have time to ask them multiple times to do things. She ended by saying she was not their personal servant.
There was absolutely nothing wrong with what she told the kids and I support what she said. Its just that before these would be issues we'd discuss and then talk with the kids. I'd be part of the plan.
Later on, I asked if there was anything I could do to help? She said no and went on to say she was not asking too much of the kids. I agreed with her and just wanted to make sure there wasn't something I could do to help. Again the answer is "no" without looking at me.
W also talked to S13 about some bad grades he'd received. I wasn't aware of these. Typically he's an honor student. The kids school also has an website where we can keep up with our kids grades. The sign on changed for this school year and at the beginning of the term, I'd asked my W several times for the sign on info. She'd forgotten it and I'd got tired of asking.
Last night as I was cleaning the dishes I asked her if she had the sign on info. She said yes and so I pulled out my phone to type in the info so I'd remember (my memory is not the best so I write things down to make sure I don't forget). Well, while I'm getting to the app I need, W blurts our the sign on info. I apologized and said I what I was doing and asked her to tell me again. At this, she got all irritated and told one of the kids "hold on, I've got to repeat myself for your father again. If you'd just listen the first time..."
I remained calm. I'm sure my face showed frustration but luckily she wasn't looking at me, as usual. Then later on is when I asked about assisting with things for her time.
This has been going on for 20 months now. I've seen others finally put a time-frame around their lives on when they will need to move on. Maybe I need to do the same. I still hate the idea of this. I can still look at my wife and feel compassion and think of her as a beautiful woman who is hurting.
But as selfish as this sounds, my 'love tank' has been empty a long time too and she's just shooting holes in it all the time so when it gets anything in there, it seems to leak out quickly.
As I struggle with these feelings, I remember that this isn't who I want to be. I feel good and better about myself when I choose to be strong and stay my course. But some days, that just seems much harder to do. I'm still hoping for some type of catalyst, a change from limbo. I think I'm Ok with whatever direction that catalyst may lead, restoration or separation.
I also need to update my life priorities and figure out what actions I am doing to support these priorities (or am I working against them?) I need to make sure I'm living a life of integrity.
Ok, a little long but I guess that's what happens when you start your day at Starbuck's and a Venti, bold....
Hope everyone in DB land has a great weekend.
Never imagined I'd be at a point in life where the weekends seemed longer than the weeks!
Had a good Friday night w/ S13. Took him and a friend to see Safe House. Good intense, guy movie.
Today has been blah. Took S13 to a band solo competition (he' plays sax). That was fine. Just me and him. When we got home both kids had friends houses to go to for parties and again both ended up as sleep overs.
I spent the evening doing grocery shopping while W stayed home and did sewing. She's making bibs for our new neice and pillow cases. She plugged in the "Twilight" movies to watch as she sewed. Even when I went up to tell her good night around 11:30, she was watching another one upstairs.
I found several Al Anon meetings that take place in my area so I'm planning to go either this week or next. Also looked into Retrouville. First session available in my area isn't until September. There was one this coming weekend but we already have our D 10th b-day party planned for that weekend. I looked at other towns but since there are 6 follow up sessions we need to go someplace close.
I honestly can't imagine W being willing to go, but maybe if I mention it now and its not until September, it will give her time to actually consider it. I was thinking of framing it up as a way to improve our communication which needs to happen regardless of whether or not we stay together. But I also know that I have to accept the fact that she may turn it down completely.
Still feel like I'm struggling with fear way too much. I don't want to bring up conversations with W because of fear of more set backs. Big topics are finances and church. She's making some money now but contributing nothing to our financial mess.
W continues to avoid going to church and its impacting how I feel the kids should be getting to go more.
Too tired to think much this evening.
(((( ))))
about retrouvaille.. what's the worse that could happen? she could say no. but if you never ask, she definitely won't say yes. if you mention it now.. don't bring it up again for a while. i asked my H to go a while ago.. he agreed and the session isn't until april. now i'm just laying low so that we don't have a fall out before then. i also presented it as a communication tool.
glad you had fun at the movies. thinking of seeing safe house too.
do you have plans for tomorrow?
Thanks BF. Very glad to hear your husband agreed to go! And you're right. I've faced enough rejection over the course of the marriage, another "no" won't really make a difference at this point!
Today I'm doing the husband/dad thing. I'll go to church this morning (W is actually in the shower now - surprise surprise).
My S has an essay that he needs to write so we'll work on that together. My W's friend gets into town tomorrow so I'll be helping clean the house and get things ready before she gets here. That's about it for today.
Safe House was good. It was also somewhat a "rite of passage" for my & my son. Its the first time I've ever agreed to take him to an "R" movie. I checked out all the reasons for the rating before going though. No raunch humor, nudity or sex. Just a few words (less than he hears at school most likely) and the action/violence was more realistic than the big explosion movies S is use to. It also gave us an opportunity to talk about the ratings and why we were seeing this one as opposed to othter R movies. Gotta take those learning opportunities when they come.
Have a good day. Whats the GAL look like for you today?
OK, so I'm a cleaning machine today. If "acts of service" is my W's love language, I hope today had an impact. If not, I still did the things I want to do.
Cleaned all the bathrooms in the house (and I can clean a bathroom!) Vacuumed the stairs (W's least favorite chore). Cleared the leaves off the patio, vacuumed off the couch that the kids do everything on and also vacuumed another large room as W was finishing up stuff.
Next I noticed where light bulbs were out in the house and the bathroom that her friend would be using so I went to the store so the bathroom was well lit for our guest.
Also, this week, I'm taking the kids to their drum show on Tuesday so W can go out with her friend. The kids also have a second show on Wednesday. We were planning to eat out before the show with all of us. I told W that I would skip out so she could just go with her friend and the kids and I'd meet them at the show. (The show is closer to my office and I live 33 miles from work so it would be extra driving anyway). I'm even considering skipping the show only because I've seen each one (at least 2 more than my W). And with the way they provide tickets I'd be sitting by myself anyway. The kids are performing at half-time a the hometown college basketball game.
So, keeping busy seems to be helping the detachment at least today.
Since you're on such a good role.... You can come do my house too!!
Her love tank should start to fill up (hopefully) with more days like this!! Keep it up!
Please come over to my place, two little girls made my house look like it was hit by a tornado
hey, if it keeps my busy, occupied and feeling needed, why not!
How much do you charge per hour? I could use some help around the house too!
Hmmmm. Maybe this is a new business opportunity! I'll have to think about this a bit.
Lol!! You could call it:
"Acts of Service"
Or:
"Rent a Hubby" (for home maintence, NOT *those* kinds of hubby duties!)
I hope you have a great week!
Interesting observation. My W has this t-shirt that she keeps in the bathroom. She typically uses it to wrap her wet hair after a shower. The t-shirt has the logo of OM's drum team that he helps with.
The interesting thing is now that OM's wife is coming to visit this week, this t-shirt is no longer hanging in the bathroom.
However, the OM's picture is still in the collage and I'm really hoping her friend notices it and that it plants a seed of concern.
Still working on my detaching and activities for the week to stay away from W and her friend as much as possible. Maybe this is a good week to start Al Anon??
This is a great time to go to Al Anon. I go to 2-3 meetings a week and whats great is you dont need to be on time, you dont need to stay for the whole meeting, you can share if you feel like it, you can sit and cry if you feel like it. Al anon can be whatever you make of it. They suggest going to 6 different meetings before deciding if Al anon is right for you.
Definitely check it out
Well first night of "friend invasion" has gone OK. I got home and W & friend were in the kitchen working on dinner. I said hi and even gave her a hug. I made friendly conversation and then went an changed clothes.
Dinner was fine. I was pretty up beat and the conversation flowed smoothly. S and I had to eat quick to get him to bball practice. So that helped keep my occupied. Once home I chatted with W and friend a little about the kids activities for the week and said "good night".
Now I'm just catching up on the threads on this board. I think the big difference for me this today was that I contacted about every guy I know who's been supporting me in this and asked for extra prayers to get me through this week. So far, I'm feeling pretty good. The next 2 days should be fairly easy as the evening activities will keep me away from W & friend so I don't have to deal with them.
But when I do, its upbeat, cheery and pleasant (Yep, going for the DB oscar!)
My prayers are with you this week. Keep positive and maybe your W's friend will wonder what the heck your W could possibly be thinking since you seem to be the most awesome CES only a fool would leave!
Thanks 2. It was kind of funny actually. Maybe it was my own imagination but it seemed like W's friend would look at me odd as I had friendly conversation like she was wondering when the alien was going to explode out of my stomach and attack everyone.
That just made me smile more!
ces, it would be a good time to go to some Alanon mtgs. I think you will enjoy the fellowship. Many towns/cities have men's mtgs.
OK, made it through day 2 of the "friend invasion". Saw W & friend very little yesterday, only about 30 minutes. I got home and W & friend left soon after for their evening out. Again had some simple and friendly conversation with W about my job and my mom (who is doing well so far with her chemo).
While I've been leaning on God a lot through this, I've decided to take an extremely focused prayer effort towards my own trust in God and my W's heart for healing. When I started this, I expected that challenges would come to throw me off and I wasn't disappointed...
While visiting my mom, I had breakfast with a friend who he & wife know my M struggles. He asked if there might be an OM involved. I gave him a brief recap of the picture I found back in Oct of W and OM and how I'm dealing with it. Well, my friend told his wife, who had lunch with my SIL, who told my brother who then contacted me last night all worried.
I've dealt with the possibility of this EA W is having and this just stirred up all those emotions again. Didn't sleep much at all last night. However, I do seem to be working out of those emotions much faster.
My brother actually had a PA several years ago and he and his W were able to save their M and are doing great now. Both say, they hate how they got to where they are but the have the marriage they always wanted.
But, from his experience he has often said he sees his own issues in my W and worries what she may be doing. I have to remember that regardless of what W chooses to do, it does not change who I am and what my path needs to be. (Hate cannot drive out hate, only Love can).
I also texted my friend to tell him that my M issues were not to be topics of conversation and explained how fast the word spread. He felt bad about it (rightly so). But I also know he meant no harm.
All these things feel like a spiritual attack to distract me from my goal and purpose and to push me back into a feeling of dread and fear. That place is no good for me so I'm fighting to stay away from it.
Tonight W & friend are taking the kids to dinner and then to the kids' drum performance at the hometown college bball game. I left W a note last night saying I was going to pass on attending and to have fun.
If an EA is still going on, I feel really bad for W's friend. You can tell this friend enjoys spending time w my W. My W can be a great and loyal friend to have. If something is going on between my W and the OM, its going to crush this friend and cause so much damage beyond what my W can realize. But these are W's choices and if so, then W will have to live with the hurt she inflicts. There is so much of me that wants to spare her that but I have to realize my efforts would only be seen in the negative.
Sometimes, I just really think too much....
I was thinking of how much I would have liked a button or pill or magic charm that would allow me to, after I have decided how to handle a situation, stop thinking about it. It's so easy to obsess over an OM or EA.
I apologize if I've already plugged this, but I'm reading a book called "Mindfulness: Finding peace in a frantic world". The book teaches techniques to allow thoughts like those you were having to pass by instead of derailing your whole day. I've found it really helpful. You can read about it here:
http://franticworld.com/ or here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._Mark_G._WilliamsThe techniques used in the book have several benefits including decreasing the likelihood of depression, allowing you to be more focused and effective, being able to enjoy the moment you are in instead of focusing on the past or future, and improving memory and a bunch of other weird stuff.
Maybe I've already mentioned it... sorry.
Thanks AT,
Right now I just ordered "No More Mr. Nice Guy". I've mentioned earlier that it feels like I need a catalyst to move things along. Maybe I'm suppose to be the catalyst and just don't know how.
I mentioned earlier that my brother found out from a friend about the pic of W and OM. We talked today. Now I'll first say my brother is my best friend and would do absolutely anything for me. But he was upset, not so much at me but for how he sees my W treating me and how he feels I'm letting it happen. Maybe he's right.
Sandi2 even asked earlier about my confusion between DB techniques and being a doormat. I think I'm really struggling to understand how my normal habits of non-confrontation are contributing to my issues.
My W did put away the t-shirt she normally keeps in the bathroom. This is the one from the OM's drum corp (friend's H). Now we'll see if she gets it back out after her friend leaves.
It also dawned on me that W talked about getting this job with friend and OM to help out. But so far all she's done is spend it on herself and has not helped at all with our bills.
Feeling a little lost for direction this evening. I trust I will be OK, but still feels like I need to do something different and I just can't figure out what that is.
It also occurred to me while talking to my brother, how uncomfortable I am when people are angry with me. I know my brother loves me but it still made me so uncomfortable to listen to him be upset. When I can take emotion out of things, I do very well (work). But with this stuff, I just feel paralyzed to know what to do. Feel like a major wimp admitting that but may as well put it out there so I can deal with it.
"It also occurred to me while talking to my brother, how uncomfortable I am when people are angry with me. I know my brother loves me but it still made me so uncomfortable to listen to him be upset. When I can take emotion out of things, I do very well (work). But with this stuff, I just feel paralyzed to know what to do. Feel like a major wimp admitting that but may as well put it out there so I can deal with it."
I don't remember CES, but are you seeing a C? If not you muight wnat to consider doing so. They can help you understand and manage your conflict avoidance issues. It might also help out in other areas of your life.
BTW, I don't think conflict avoidance makes you a wimp.
Something else to also think about. If conflict avoidance is a problem for you, where might the emotions come out in other areas of your life? I mean, if you put a lot of energy in one area it usually mean that another area is being neglected. Conversely, if you don't put energy in an area that might otherwise require it, where is that energy going instead.
Hmmmm
You're not a wimp, you just learned coping behaviors that served you well at one time but are not useful any more. You can learn to handle conflict well but it takes work. Learning these techniques is a good thing for all involved in the conflict.
If I can do it, anyone can.
[b]
Something else to also think about. If conflict avoidance is a problem for you, where might the emotions come out in other areas of your life? I mean, if you put a lot of energy in one area it usually mean that another area is being neglected. Conversely, if you don't put energy in an area that might otherwise require it, where is that energy going instead.
Hmmmm
This ^^^^^^ is a great insight!
I was the opposite of you ces. I would almost go looking for a fight- didn't matter who or what. The whole family (in-laws included) were afraid to make me mad because of the 'attack' that was sure to come. In my therapy, I explored possible reasons and underlying motivations for such anger/aggression. We discovered that throughout my life, if I was kind, open and vulnerable with friends- I would be taken advantage of. So I developed the idea (un-known to my conscience brain) that if I could keep people at arm's length and never let them get too close- I could avoid being hurt (see, I avoided too.) Sadly, I brought this same approach into my M- with the one person who would never exploit my vulnerabilities.
Sorry to hijack- but 2TP's comment struck something in me.
I'm glad you ordered the Nice Guy book. It covers exactly the area you are describing. Like Labug said, these are old coping behaviors that won't work for you any more and you can un-learn.
some quotes from the book:
More than anything, Jason wanted to be liked. He saw himself as a very generous, giving person. He prided himself on not having many ups and downs and for never losing his temper. He revealed that he liked to make people happy and that he hated conflict. To avoid rocking the boat with his wife, he tended to hold back his feelings and tried to do everything "right."
For Nice Guys, these survival mechanisms took the form of the following life paradigm:
● IF I can hide my flaws and become what I think others want me to be
● THEN I will be loved, get my needs met, and have a problem-free life.
It is this paradigm, formed in childhood, that guides and controls everything Nice Guys do in their adult lives. Even though it is based on faulty interpretations of childhood events, it is the only road map these men have. Nice Guys believe this map is accurate, and if they follow it correctly, they should arrive at their desired location — a smooth, happy life. Even though this life script is often highly ineffective, Nice Guys frequently just keep trying harder, doing more of the same, hoping for different results.
Thanks all,
2 - I do see a counselor but not on a regular basis. I did call yesterday and have an appointment monday morning. You're right in that human nature typically shows that if we hold stuff in, it will eventually come out in other ways that are less healthy. For me, early in my M the lack of conflict came out in melancholy type behaviors. I wasn't pleased so my moping behavior was how I expressed it. Looking back that was probably very passive-aggressive of me and may be where my W felt controlled.
I think the struggle still exists to some degree in my current sitch. But given that I know my W doesn't really care about how I feel, I work to just GAL and show a happy ces. I will definitely be talking to my IC about this.
Labug - I went to a men's retreat back in October where a lot of these same issues came up for me. At that retreat they said the very same thing you did. My behavior was a way to cope that worked for a while and now it doesn't and I have to find a healthier way to cope. Still learning what that looks like though. Thanks for the encouragement.
P - yep, different coping mechanism, same result - keeping people at a distance. Its interesting, the way you describe how your in-laws felt towards you is how I have felt towards my W and also how my family nows feels towards her. She hasn't always been as angry as she is now, but I have certainly lived with the criticism. This goes back to what 2 was saying and I need to spend some more time diving into that topic.
AT - I read the first few pages of the book online and definitely saw myself. The quote you listed above:
"To avoid rocking the boat with his wife, he tended to hold back his feeelings and tried to do everything 'right.'"
That fits me to a T. I kept trying to get it right and when the criticism and unhappiness kept coming from my W then I just felt like a failure and withdrew even more. I often felt more valued and appreciated at work than I ever did at home and while I didn't live at the office, I certainly applied myself there more.
Only 1 more day of the friend invastion. My interactions with the friend have been good but there still seem to be times when she looks like she expecting me to go off or act crazy or something. W actually talked a little with me about the kids show last night. Friend wasn't even around to see it.
My brother is very frustrated because he doesn't understand what I am trying to accomplish with the DB tactics. I also have to continue questioning if I am using them effectively or am I mis-applying them to fit my conflict avoidance ways. As I've said, I've seen small signs of hope but overall, but still no actual efforts towards our marriage. Our joint MC stopped back in September of last year and the limbo continues.
Ces yes it is a marathon. Sometimes I just want to say ef it. But I still have hopes that it will work out. My brother stopped telling me to give up since he knows where I stand and he is supportive now. People have DBed for years before anything positive happened. I am sorry to tell you but we are very new to this. We are at the beggining stages. So there is a long road ahead. I too do not like conflict the difference is that after a while I would blow up. Keep posting it really helps to look at what you write and get a picture of who you are. Have a great one
It makes me sad that people act like you're from another planet for trying so hard to fix a marriage rather than give in to your hurt pride.
Most people got married for a reason. Figure it out and get back there. It makes me really sad for the kids involved that people are too self-centered to work through their problems.
I think its like the book describes. These are people that care about us and are more concerned about "ending our pain" so to speak as opposed to restoring our marriage. Intentions are good but the benefit is rather short-term related to the ongoing challenges of a divorce.
I did get a little more information from a "legal consultant" by calling my company EAP group (vs. the website I looked at).
It certainly wasn't an optimistic outlook if I end up going the D route. All the more reason to deal with the financial and M issues now.
Well, I went to my first Al Anon meeting tonight. It was OK. Very nice people. Felt a little out of place given that I'm not married to an alcoholic. However, both her parents were alcholics. The F was abusive, angry and ran off on the family and the M pretty much gave up on life and check out as a mom for the most part and drinking herself to an early death. W has a picture of her sitting in a run down kitchen drinking with one of W's older sisters. W has 4 biological siblings that she's always stayed away from due to their own substance & anger issues.
We've always stayed away from alcohol because of W's background. At least for the first 18 years of our M. Then she decided she should try it to prove to herself that she wouldn't become her parents. Well, she may not be an alcoholic but she's turned into her parents by checking out, being angry and escaping through "good times" rather than deal with any issues.
So working on me. I've got to figure out my conflict/anger avoidance issues and how its impacting my interactions with W. We've had no R conversations and I may need to start some. Will have an IC meeting on Monday.
Side note - I can hear my W in the kitchen now fixing she and her friend marguaritas. Its just so frustrating. I never had an issue with having a drink but all her behavior changes started when she started drinking and hanging with these ladies so I have some personal frustrations that I need to work through.
OK, I also contacted a fincial consulting group based from a christian organization to help me organize a plan to get my finances back in check. I have that appointment next week.
Mentioned in an earlier post today that I did speak with a "legal consultant" through work EAP and got basic news that I'd be hard pressed to get primary custody of kids and I'll most likely end up with the brunt of the financial burden. All the more reason to deal with it now.
An elder at my church has been wonderful and we're having lunch again soon. He also offered some counseling to me through the church that I may take him up on. This is the elder who recommended the DB book based upon this counselor using the book.
Not sure what else to write tonight. The roller coaster is on the frustrating twists & turns. I've got to figure out how to direct it to better places for myself.
Hang in there CES. If I were you, I'd take advantage of any C I could get my hands on, whether it be through your church or elsewhere. The more support you have, the better!
When you have a minute, go check out my post to you and Rick over on his thread.
Thanks 2. just read it and responded there. I plan on picking up that book next. I know I have to work on my attitude at home and have done so. Its not great, but its defintely better. Thanks for taking the time to read & respond.
Tomorrow's my morning coffee day so I'll be catching up on yours & other's threads in the morning.
Journal stuff:
D9's b-day party went great. Had 11 girls total and 9 spend the night. 7 stayed long enough for breakfast today.
W & D had arranged "minute to win it" games for the girls and they had lots of fun. Then D wanted them to have their own talent show so the broke up into groups and make their shows. Of course with it being all girls, the only guy in the house (me) made it a little akward for them so I gladly occupied myself in another room.
Kept up the "acts of service" as well. Party started at 8 and W had to take her friend to the airport. While she was gone I saw several things that needed done and just got them done. W even called to ask if I could do "x" and I was able to tell her I already had it done. She seemed a bit surprised but I never got a "thank you". Good thing is, I don't expect that any more anyway.
W is the night owl so she stayed up LATE with the girls and slept very little. I got up early because 2 girls have to leave before everyone else. So I was able to get them out the door and fix breakfast for the 7 remaining girls while W slept some. (homemade pancakes, bacon & sausage).
D's birthday is actually tomorrow. W always does the shopping so I asked about what she's gotten D and she showed me the stuff.
I cleaned up the kitchen and visited with the parent as they came to get their girls. Overall fun evening.
Also have to give credit to W. She did this for our S too. On the 10th b-days. When the kids have their friend parties, instead of bringing gifts, we have our kids pick out a charity to help. So both kids picked animal shelters. W contacts these gorups to see what they need and then the guests bring stuff for the charity. Then we take our kids there to drop off the goodies. My W has very cool ideas like this.
W even mentioned going to church tomorrow and then taking D out to lunch for her b-day. I still have to talk about our finances with her tomorrow so a little anxious on how that will go
When the kids have their friend parties, instead of bringing gifts, we have our kids pick out a charity to help. So both kids picked animal shelters. W contacts these gorups to see what they need and then the guests bring stuff for the charity. Then we take our kids there to drop off the goodies. My W has very cool ideas like this.
What a great idea!
"Also have to give credit to W. She did this for our S too. On the 10th b-days. When the kids have their friend parties, instead of bringing gifts, we have our kids pick out a charity to help. So both kids picked animal shelters. W contacts these gorups to see what they need and then the guests bring stuff for the charity. Then we take our kids there to drop off the goodies. My W has very cool ideas like this."
Just curious... have you considered telling your W something like:
W, I don't know if I ever told you this but I really admire you for being so thoughtful with the kids and showing them compassion towards others like how you do the charity gift giving thing. It is just so cool and I really think the example you set is like planting seeds for the future. I just wanted you to know that I admire you for that.
And then smiling, walk away.....
Not quite those words but I did make a point to tell her this morning that she & D did a great job with the party and that she always does such a good job with all these types of things. Then I just went on with cleaning up the kitchen.
I still make it a point to praise her when possible and even compliment her in front of people when the opportunity exists.
I try not to over do it. Her lack of response seems to indicate that this is not her "love language".
It may not be, but words of affirmation are always welcomed. So what is her LL? Any idea?
I really think it is "gifts". She LOVES her birthday. She once told me she would like if I shopped for her and brought home several items of clothes for her to try and then she could take back what she didn't want. I've done that a few times in the past but not enough. We have always struggled financially through our marriage. We've made it but its been tight as we've chosen to raise a family on just my income.
Now things are even worse financially because of our sitch. I do look for little things to do and try to do them very casually. But I probably need to ramp this up a bit.
I think a secondary may be "acts of service" which as we talked about area a little easier to find and do. I've focused more on this since I can typically do this despite our limited cashflow.
You know gifts are tough but can be combined with Acts of service. Here's an example; I've covered it on my thread but will share again.
My W's LL is Acts of Service and it is a very pronounced. For Valentines day I made her a home made V card from the kids. Just something I pulled off the internet and then I printed up some pictures of the boys that I had on my phone and glued them on the cards.
It took just a few minutes and cost next to nothing. But, it was HUGE for my W. I essentially killed two birds with one stone - Gifts and Acts of Service.
Mothers Day is coming up in a few months. What if you were to get a can of spray paint and something like a painters canvas and have your kids help make a Mothers Day collage of hand prints on a heart or something like that.
It could be a joint project with you and the kids and your W would be the recipient.
Tell me she wouldn't appreciate that little gesture!! Go ahead, tell me. I dare you!
hmmmm.. i love gifts too (not my primary love language but i do like it) but, it's not the actual gift that i like. it's the fact that someone took the time to try and think about what i would like and gave it to me.
one of the best gifts i received was for my first mother's day. H had made a photo book of S for me. i was so touched that he had spent so much time gathering the photos and writing comments w/ it...
maybe one day you could make her a cd w/ songs you use to love to listen to together. just a thought. hahaha.. i think i'm projecting. i just want someone to make me an awesome cd!
Thanks 2 & BF, I'll come up with something.
Here's something a little more challenging and I'd like your thoughts.
March 9th is the anniversary of my W's mom's death. W as 16 at the time. Her dad had already run off. This is always an emotional time for her. I've always gotten her cards or something to let her know that I feel for her loss.
Any suggestions on how to handle this one? What could I do that would come across as caring without pursuing?
Well, I brought up the money topic today. I tried to be kind about it and open it up for discussion but she threw it back at me. I'm sure my facial expressions weren't the best but I did not allow myself to go off or blame.
Me: This next pay is going to be very tight with some of the bills that are due. Now that you've got your part time job, I'd like to move some of the money that's going into the joint account for you to the other account to help get the credit cards paid down.
W: That's fine. Whatever.(Sarcastic smile and shaking her head)
Me: What are you thinking?
W: Nothing. It doesn't matter do whatever you want.
Me: It does matter I'd like to know what your thinking.
W: Why, you're just going to do what you want to do anyway.
Me: I'd like to have a conversation about what we think will work.
So it went on from there. She basically said I started this by treating her like a 17yr old. This is in reference to stopping the credit cards after she' nearly maxed out 3 with travel, eating, entertaining & shopping with her friends. I also set up my own checking account to pay the bills. I apologized to her if I went to far with the checking account but I still would like to work together.
She gave the typical "I don't know" response. I asked her to think about it so we could talk later. She said she didn't know what there was to talk about. I asked her to just think of a way we could work together on the finances that she might be able to live with. She said she'd think about it. I left it at that.
Even after taking her off my credit cards, I know that she's already spent nearly $2000 in the last 2 months on her own credit card. I did not bring it up. I did not blame. The one thing I did that slipped out was state that she is unwilling to talk with with me or work with me on the money so I have little choice but to make decisions and take action on my own.
I'll give it a few days and lay out the current status of our finances to her later this week. I'll also let her know that I am meeting with a financial consultant to figure out a plan to get out of debt.
Its at the point that this has to be addresses regardless of our marriage. Our inability to deal with our finances is impacting our kids and will continue to impact them. My S will leave for college in 5 years. I don't want him stuck with all kinds of student loans like I was.
Wow, she is cold as ice isn't she?
"The one thing I did that slipped out was state that she is unwilling to talk with with me or work with me on the money so I have little choice but to make decisions and take action on my own."
I don't view this as a slip. It is reality and she needs to own up to reality. You know something that might help her understand what is going on with the finances, is to see if you can demonstrate an escalation in the spending since the bomb.
Assuming your income hasn't changed but spending has increased it should be a fairly easy picture to paint for her to understand.
There is nothing like facts and data to help bring people back to reality!
You knew that conversation wasn't going to be easy, I think you handled it with as much sensitivity as could have. She says you treate her like a 17 year old... So does that mean that she accepts that she's been *acting* like a teenager?? Instead of her seeing that the two adults need to have a mature and important conversation about finances... She made herself the 'kid' (b/c kids don't have to take responsibility for their actions)
I think you are doing what needs to be done to ensure your family's survival- there's nothing wrong with that. And I commend you for taking steps now for S college, seems like your W is content to only think of the here and now.
You're doing good things, keep doing them!!!
Hi Ces67,
You are doing the right thing by trying your best to address the financial situation. Keep offering to communicate with her about the debt. My W ran up the cards as well, but I do believe she was doing her best. It was my fault for saddling her with the task of bill-paying while I worked. More to the point, she also experienced both anger and embarassment about the debt accrued. I believe that is "her work" and that of your W - to accept the consequences of her choices (the impact on the family).
I think you handling it as best you can is the way of showing your strength as a man, with no punishment or shaming in your efforts.
On my part, we eventually had to declare bankruptcy - separately (her choice). I face months to years to prove my viability as a provider again, while you can do so in a manner that is much quicker.
Leave your concerns about your son's college debt for another time. He is young and strong, and this is a different time in history then when we went to college.
Keep your M in central focus.
Thanks all. Hopefully I left the door open for further conversations. Also, my meeting with the financial consultant is this Wednesday. I hope that after that meeting I can lay out the reality of our situation to W. Even if W continues to complain that I am treating her like a child, I hope the results show that I'm providing for my family and she'll have to deal with her own actions.
I do ger frustrated with her actions and lack of responsibility but I am working to forgive her daily so we can just move forward. Trouble is, I don't think she's ready to face her own issues or even forgive herself just yet.
ces, you may have mentioned this before but have you sat down with her and shown her the actual figures, pay stubs, bank statements, the whole nine yards?
Also, have you heard of Financial Peace University?
what is financial peace university?
financial stress is such a hindrance. the sooner you can get it under control, the sooner you can move on and focus on other things.
it's unfortunate that your wife seems so defensive at the moment but hopefully in time she'll appreciate that you stepped up.
FPU is a Dave Ramsey program (google if you're not familiar) which teaches you how to take control of your finances. Being the control (this for you BF
) person I am, I used some DR techniques to pay off debt and keep our debt down.
It's basically common sense but sometimes you need support and coaching to stay on the right path.
Sorta like DBing.
ces, you may have mentioned this before but have you sat down with her and shown her the actual figures, pay stubs, bank statements, the whole nine yards?
Also, have you heard of Financial Peace University?
Hey Labug, yes, W and I have gone over all our bills and cash flow. We actually started that at the beginning of what little MC we did last year (a little under a year ago). At that point, my W wasn't happy with how I was documenting things so she set up a folder for each pay period so that each payment could be documented. Its well organized. I always kept the bills paid but did not document it each pay period. My W never really wanted to be part of the process as it stressed her out (her words).
While she made some critical comments about my poor origanization, I followed her process because I wanted to cooperate and also because it was a good process. Since then she has had little or nothing to do with the process. On occasion she will write down a bill that is due.
I've offered to go over this multiple times and to look at better ways to work together. Her response is typically what I got yesterday. She blames, makes excuses and in the end avoids taking part.
I'm familiar with Dave Ramsey and have looked at some of his stuff. The group I'm meeting with this week is Crown Financial. I found them on the "Focus on the Family" website. I'm taking steps to get out of the hole we're in. I want to leave the door open for my W to take part but no idea if she will or not.
Well, not sure if it was our talk yesterday but something has impacted my W for the day.
W called me on my way home and asked me to get dinner started. She had run our D's science fair project to the the country show. S13 had bball practice so dinner needed to get started. Not a big deal. Actually thankful she asked for my help. (OK, she told me I needed to do this but that's pretty much always been her way of asking).
I get home and house is far from orderly. There was nothing on the calendar for the day so as far as I know W had no where to be. The clean dishes were still in the washer from last night. All the day's dishes including the kid's breakfast stuff is all over the kitchen counters. No laundry was done (W usually starts this on Mondays). All the presents and gift bags from my D's birthday were still scattered on the floor in the living room untouched from yesterday.
W gets home and its obvious she has cleaned up for the day. Typically she's at least put on some makeup and jewelry. She had no make up and only her single wedding band with no other jewelry on.
She was a bit snippy with me a few times which I ignored. This is usually what I would find when W has spend the day in bed being depressed.
Not sure if it had to do with our money talk yesterday or something else. But something is definitely bothering her a lot more than usual. In the past I've asked if she wants to talk and the answer has always been "no" so I didn't even bother this evening.
Just give her space, CES. It is the best thing you can do for her and for you at this time. Live your life and give her space.
Ces- it took me a couple days to read your thread. I have 2 lil ones...
First- great!!! U went to al anon! It works if you work it! H isn't an alcoholic but a child of an alcoholic, like myself. Still helps a lot!
W coldness - keep working on yourself for YOU!! Remember not to expect anything. Treat her as a friend.
GAL - spending time w ur kids is a great GAL. They need to know you both love them.
There r so many other things u brought up that I want to address but lil time. Ur bros negativity (and anyone else's) will bring down your efforts. Continue to stay away from the topic. It will help you in the long run.
Also, work on your own demons. They will help you regardless of the outcome!