Previous threads:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2207756&page=1http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2211588#Post2211588Synopsis of my sitch so far: A week before my partner of almost 9 years dropped the bomb on me, he told me he was confused about how he felt for me. He said he didn't feel as intensely for me, but was still in love with me and wasn't leaving. It freaked me out, to say the least. We'd been having problems, but that was the first time he sat me down to tell me anything like that. After that I tried to make things better, but felt no response from him. 1 week later he tells me he's not in love with me and wants to have his own life. He told me this on the night we got our Christmas tree. Lovely memories, eh?
I asked him to move out 3 days later. He stays in a spare bedroom at his mom's. Tomorrow marks 7 weeks since the bomb drop. Gradually he has come to tell me that he never fell out of love with me, he was just 'numb' when he told me that. I found out he lied up until the end of our relationship. I was depressed and controlling and he would lie to me. I found out he started texting and hanging out with other women very soon after leaving me. We've slept together 3 times during the split. Not going to happen anymore. He's told me he's still in love with me and feels we owe it to each other to lead our own life, and if we come back together naturally, then we're meant to be.
I decided (finally) to not let him cake eat anymore, and to not share my personal life with him. He FREAKED about it the other day. Begging and pleading me to tell him if I've kissed/slept with someone else. He seems to have gone temporarily (hopefully its temporary) insane. He told me that this new person I'm becoming is more and more appealing by the day.
BUT he's not back home. I think maybe he doesn't want me, but doesn't want anyone else to have me
I think he said all of that because he assumed I'm seeing someone and I didn't correct him. And I won't. It's not his business, and he needs to face that I will see others it he doesn't wake up and come back to his family.
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He called me at 3:30 this morning. It rang once. What the heck? A friend of mine thinks he was making sure I wasn't in bed with someone else. Maybe it's because I keep reminding him to text me instead of call, and he's not liking having lost the control.
Dealing with a cake eater has me feeling like I need to work in reverse. I'm making him feel the effects of NOT having me. He's not liking it. He has reached out to me more since I quit sharing with him. But it still doesn't mean that he'll come home. I know I will be ok if he doesn't. I've learned to recognize my self-worth and I'm learning to love myself and become independent. It feels great.
We're meeting at the bank this afternoon to take me off of our joint account.
Wow! You have come leaps and bounds in such a short time! I'm envious of you
I still fight with the fact that I *logically* know what I need to do and putting Ito action....
I think it's awesome that he's freaking out! Lol!! It just proves how much of a cake eater he was really being.... And now that he's living the reality of his decision, he doesn't like it. I need to read your posts everyday to remind myself that even though they get angry and upset- pulling away from them really can work!
I hope the bank goes smoothly!
Ya, your sitch *really* doesn't sound permanant to me. He really sounded like he was ... testing you with all this (for lack of a better description).
I think you're doing fantastic and hope it all works out.
I'm not sure how to feel right now
We met at the bank to close our going account and open m up a new one. While there, a teller was flirting with me. As we went to sit down, J said, "That guy is looking for an ass whooping." Lol! I was kind of dressed up and looking good. I was very detached with J at the bank. As we left it was raining. I was getting S in the car and J asked to sit in my car to talk with me. I started to protest, but gave in. We talked for about an hour. He was very vulnerable. He asked me if I ever think of him and getting back together, because he does. He asked AGAIN if I slept with someone, but I stayed firm and told him we shouldn't talk about our personal lives. He said he can see himself happy with the person that I'm becoming, but feels we aren't ready to be back together yet. He said in the past few days he realized that he lost his best friend.
I had been doing SO WELL with the detaching. But that conversation messed me up. I called him a bit later and we talked for 2 hours. I needed straight answers. He said he was trying to let me go and move on, but that he really wants to get to know the person that I'm becoming. I got him to admit that he still wants to see what wise is out there. He said there are some interesting people, but none of them are me. He's missing ME as a person now, rather than missing the habits of being in a relationship. He said he realizes that he has a lot of changes to make. He said he has realized that the lying goes deeper than a reaction to my controlling behavior and that he can't blame me for it.
He said a lot of what he's been saying for weeks now. I told him that I'm starting the process of moving on and that this is a huge gamble to make. He said he doesn't feel ready for us to be together right now, that if he comes back he wants it to be when he's in the right frame of mind. I agree with that. He said he hopes we get to that place.
I just don't know what to be feeling right now! We're going back to the boundaries set in place. He said he won't talk about the R anymore unless I initiate (which I won't).
In the car I looked him in the eye and said, "I don't want to sleep with you anymore. At all." He started crying and said that hearing that hurt, but he understands.
We're meeting somewhere tomorrow to fill out the joint custody/child support forms.
What should I be doing?!
I guess I feel like he's testing his feelings for me. He wonders if he could be happy with someone else. That makes me mad
I just can't talk to him about the R at all anymore. Each time he gets closer to saying he wants to come home, but still doesn't.
I wouldn't want him to come home right now, so I'm also dealing with those conflicting feelings. I would want him to if he wholeheartedly wanted to. I asked him why he brought all of that up if he knew he wasn't ready to come back s d he said he misses me and feels more like we could be together if we both 'get our sh!t together'. I feel frustrated. Help! He said my detaching made him feel like there was no hope. I made it very clear that I'm not waiting around for him and he said he doesn't want me to wait. I told him I feel I'm starting to move on and he said he understands. I don't get it! If he gets all emotional and thinks of coming home and freaks at the thought of me with someone else, how can he let me go? He seems very infatuated with the woman I'm becoming. I stupidly asked him if he'd want to date me and he said yes. I'm not open to that unless it would be exclusive, which it wouldn't be. Why is he testing us like this? It's so unfair.
Oh, he said he feels like this is getting harder for him while it's getting easier for me. By the end of our convo, he said the thought of me with someone else doesn't hurt him as much and he doesn't really want to know. I feel like an idiot. I feel like I am helping him to get over me! What am I doing?! This is not unrecoverable, right? Yeesh, I haven't felt this vulnerable and uncertain in a while now.
Would going dim/dark and mysterious again be the best course of action?
Keep doing what you are doing
Here's just some comments from the peanut gallery.
He's depressed, and this is killing his determination, and ambition. He is stuck so deep in his own pit of self pity that he can't see himself succeeding at work, school, or even his personal relationships.
This is something only he can affect. He has to hit rock bottom, and then from there decide he wants things to improve. Sounds like he is still to content with just getting by or worse watch everything he's ever wanted slip away.
I suspect at some point you subconciously realized this, and started nagging him in the hopes to get him moving. (I infer this from his complaint that you were too controlling.)
At the same time you were too afraid to leave, and rather than improve without him you chose stagnation for yourself too. It soothed his own inadequacies, while providing an excuse for you to not outpace him and be disapointed in him.
Now that you are improving himself it is proving his inner fears that he is not good enough for you, and was probably a hinderence all along.
Expect him to get worse the better you get.
He needs to get to the point where he says:
"I deserve good grades"
"I deserve a good job"
"I deserve Jenna"
"I WILL fight for all these things"
If becoming a strong man is his end goal, then he needs to start on his journey.
You can't drag him along, and must continue on yours. If you decide to get off the path to cheer him on you'll find that he may never get on it. He has no reason to, you are already there with him.
If you continue on the path and he sees himself left behind then he may finally get the motivation to get up of his feet and chase you down the path.
Keep in mind that there is a chance he decides to never take the journey, or once you get going he may never catch up, and you may not want to slow down for him
Just keep going, shoot for straight A's!!
Thanks so much for saying all of that, GB. He is starting to realize that he needs to change. He even said he agrees that counseling would be a must for us in order to get back together. HUGE 180 for him. He said he'd want to do it right and give us the best chance. He also said he feels he'd drag me down at this point, and he needs to do some of his own changes on his own before he can think of worrying about healing our R.
Wow. Do you think he really could be being honest when he says he doesn't feel like he's grown as much as me and that he needs to catch up to where I am if we have a chance of making it together? He said he doesn't want to mess up my growth and he worries that he would sink the relationship at this point.
So, I guess I just go back to being my happy self around him (funny, it's no longer an act, around him or not!). I need to stay firm with the boundaries. He needs to learn to respect me. He said that to me today. I need to look cute around him
He told me that I looked so pretty today.
Anyone else have any input? I'd really appreciate it!
I bawled on my way to my mom's to pick up the kids last night. There was a detour and I had to drive right by his work. I saw his car. If we were together, I would have stopped in and surprised him.
S and I are meeting him in a couple of hours. J didn't like my new boundary of not coming inside my house, but understands.
I think a big part of me worries he is just wanting what he can't have. He knows I wouldn't take him back unless he wanted to come home more than anything, and he doesn't feel ready for that yet. He seemed so scared and sad yesterday when he was asking me if he's the only one that thinks about our relationship. I told him I feel like he keeps checking me to make sure I haven't moved on. He said he isn't, but that he's having a very hard time letting me go. I think he wants to let the *old* me go, not the new me. Wishful thinking. I wasn't making much eye contact with him yesterday. He asked me if I'm having a hard time looking at him. I'm not, I just don't want that connection, if that makes sense. I'm stronger when I feel detached from him. He has said many times that he feels it's unfair that he spent almost 9 years with a shell of who I really am and that it took him leaving for me to blossom. I was the first to say I felt like a shell of a person for so long, and that really stuck with him. I said that soon after he left. He said he feels he doesn't really know me. He's intrigued by the new me and says its so great to see me changing, but it hurts him at the same time.
The big 180 for him yesterday was him focusing on his issues for once. He said he's done a lot of thinking and realized his lying issues stem from before he even met me and they aren't a result of anything I did. That was just how he'd rationalize it. He said he doesn't feel like he really knows himself. He was too immersed in our relationship as well to have his own identity. That surprised me to hear. He was gung-ho about counseling! That was a trip. He has always been so against it. He seemed almost excited to think of us being together again...someday, not now.
He keeps asking me where I am in my menstrual cycle. A part of me wonders if he is secretly hoping I am pregnant with his baby. He said he'd definitely come home if I were. I'm not pregnant, and I don't want to be. I don't know, it's just his tone when he brings it up that makes me think that on some level, he wants me to be pregnant so that he has a pressing reason to come back, because he's scared to make the choice to on his own. He said in many different ways yesterday that he doesn't feel like he's good enough for me right now and that he needs to become a stronger, more confident person...a person that I deserve.
I just know that I can't make the mistake of talking to him about the R anymore unless he wants to come home. I feel like I gave him tips on how to let me go! I didn't mean to. I'm having a hard time articulating my thoughts. I just don't want to do/say anything to help him to move on. He says he doesn't want to hold me back from living my life throughout all of this and he doesn't want me waiting for him...but when I tell him that I won't be sleeping with him again unless we're in a committed R, I don't want the person that he is right now, I am starting to move on...he panics. It all comes back to me feeling like he's testing us. I feel like he won't come back until he has experienced an R with someone else. He says no, he won't be comparing me to anyone else, but then he says other things that show otherwise (like when he said he's met some interesting people, but they aren't me). He said he wants to be the man that I deserve and he'd love to be with me forever, but he isn't ready.
He also said the 3am call was a total accident, and he canceled it when he realized he tapped on my name instead of his buddy's. That would explain why it only rang once or twice. Kinda bummed me out to hear that. I was hoping that he was missing me and called because of that. Oh well.
It's always a bit strange and awkward to go back to detaching and speaking to him about official business only after connecting with him and talking about the old R and possible future R.
I don't want to negatively project, but I don't feel like we'll ever reconcile
"He also said the 3am call was a total accident, and he canceled it when he realized he tapped on my name instead of his buddy's. That would explain why it only rang once or twice. Kinda bummed me out to hear that. I was hoping that he was missing me and called because of that. Oh well. "
Don't think about things like this. Although I can tell you he probably called you on purpose and hung up.
Keep doing what you're doing. You notice he's still blaming you and the marriage for HIS issues? Don't take anything he says seriously unless he actually apologizes and takes responsibility for his actions. His idea of "growth" is BS. It's called maturity. You take responsibility for your own actions and everything that happens as a result of them.
The fact that he says he wants to see what's out there shows he doesn't respect your feelings. It's all about him. It's not until he actually says that he will do the work that things will change. He's not willing to do the work.
Continue to look and smell hot around him. Go out and do things for yourself.
I can tell how confused you are by his new words/actions.... made me think of something that I read in DR the other night- and I copied it down because I wanted to remember it for my own sitch
Now, even though your 'h' isn't the age to be considered having a MLC, I think it applies to y'all because you were so young when 'adult life' started.... in a way, he's reached the same level of anxiety other men reach in their 30's and 40's.
From DR: Limbo Land Chapter
"If your H decides to come home, although you'll be relieved, you'll also be flooded with many other intense emotions.... you will need to change, but your h will need to change too. He'll need to show that he wants to invest his heart into your relationship. He needs to show empathy for what you've been through all these months. But these will not happen immediately, you need to continue to remain patient. ....
If your H had an affair, and decided to end it... he will probably be feeling a sense of with drawl just as if someone were giving up a drug. He might feel sad, depressed or irritable.... he will come out of this funk if you give him 'permission' to feel this way..."This part made me think about your 'h'.... not exactly what he's doing- but the essence. Here me out: Your 'h' made a decision to leave- for whatever reason he wants to say or justify, but the fact remains- he left. He shut down those emotions to you (well,yours at least he tried to convince himself that he did), so to have those emotions come flooding back is very confusing. If he's anything like most guys (no offense to those on this board :)) they don't like to admit when they've made mistakes, and therefore fight really hard to stick to their choices. Your h is fighting his earlier choice, with wanting to take it back. The other thing this excerpt made me think about is this: although you haven't confirmed that there was an affair or OW, at least in his mind- he was thinking about finding one. He opened himself up to the idea that someone else could be out there for him (just like an affair). So he has to also battle the 'loss' of that 'fantasy affair' if he chooses to come back to you... this seems like where his crying, confusion, and erratic behavior comes from. I think your h is at the bottom of his fall, and he's questioning not only his original choice, but also choosing to give up the 'fantasy affair'.
Probably more that you wanted, but that's what I thought about when I read what he's been doing. As far as him wanting you to be preggo- that makes his decision easy, it's no brainer.... BUT if he chooses to come back for his own reasons- he knows that there is A LOT of hard work for him to do, and that's scary for him. Being preggo let's him be lazy.
Even though all of it- Im sooooo proud of you for sticking to your guns and keeping your boundaries in tact! It's good that you can still cry, you should always let yourself feel your emotions because they will process faster, as opposed to if you try to keep them inside.
The fact that he is so torn is a direct reflection on all the efforts you've done. I think you have the potential to be one of the LBS who decided that *they* don't want the WAS back because they've discovered a new self who is better off without the WAS. I know that for the sake of you kids, you won't make such an important decision without giving it a lot of thought.
Always thinking about you!! I had a passing thought today: wouldn't it be great if we could do a DB cruise?! All of us on here get together for a weekend getaway!!
Jenna - I had lost your thread and now just found it again. It's been a few weeks since I last read and you have come so far! Good for you. Despite the pain you really have it together...that's great.
Guys, thanks for taking the time to respond!
MB- The more time that passes by, the more he starts taking responsibility for his choices and actions. He recognizes that he has a lot of growing to do. I hope he starts taking steps towards growth, mostly for his own sake. As for your last sentence, he could not take his eyes off of me today. He took my wrist and sniffed it and said I smell amazing (lemon essential oil).
Pur- OMG, I could just kiss you right now! That loss of fantasy is exactly what is happening here, I'm convinced! I could not figure out how to phrase it. That's it. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. I hope he will come to realize that fantasy is never as good as reality, and I'm as real as it gets! He KNOWS he could be happy with me now, and that makes him feel worse in a way because he still longs for the fantasy of someone else. I'm sure it's because he's just never had an R (not even a very short, non-serious one) with ANYONE else. Ever. Not even a silly 1-week-long 'relationship' in high school. I'm it. Now, he did have a short fling (slept with her twice) 4 months after I left him back at the end of '06, but he had zero feelings for her. It wasn't an R at all.
Rick- Thanks for stopping by!
We met at Burger King this morning to fill out the joint custody/visitation agreement. We were there for over 3 hours! That was a huge stack of paperwork. He was entranced by me the whole time. I caught him staring at me at least a dozen times. Every time I smiled, laughed, or cracked a joke he would smile, sigh, and I swear I could see those animated hearts floating above his head! He looks like a lovestruck teenager around me, and acts like one. I love it, and I HATE it at the same time
It's so confusing for me. Hurtful that he wants some fantasy so much. At least now he fully realizes what he'll be losing if he doesn't choose me.
Ahh, anyway, of course he brought up the R. He always says he won't, but does anyway. I can understand this time, considering we were filling out the first papers that solidify the choice he made. We weren't married (though we were in a long term relationship for almost 9 years, which is longer than a lot of marriages last, especially for people our age), so there haven't been separation or divorce papers. Do you want to know what he asked me?! He tried to make it sound hypothetical, but his voice cracked while he asked. He asked if all of this can be stopped if the couple decides to reconcile. I said yes, for sure it can be! It was hard for both of us to figure out who is going to have the kids for what holiday. The only time I teared up throughout the whole 3+ hours was when I told him we'd alternate for Halloween (we're alternating for almost every holiday). I said I couldn't imagine not taking my kids trick-or-treating. Want to know what he did? He teared up and wrote on the paper that I would get them every single Halloween. He agreed to let me have the kids every Thanksgiving night. That's the big one in my family. He expressed sadness that he won't be having Thanksgiving with my grandparents anymore. But every time he says something like that, I get the feeling that he doesn't feel we may still be in this situation by then. Who knows. He misses my grandparents terribly. My grams is pretty upset with him. My papa isn't, but J said he doesn't feel ready to face them yet.
He told me he's been going through our text messages from before he left. I sent him a topless photo of me less than a month before the bomb drop
I grabbed his phone and playfully said I was going to delete it. He got serious and said please don't delete it. I told him he can look at all of the boobs he wants now, why the desire to look at mine? He just stared at me. Oy! He tried to play footsie with me and I'd move my feet and eventually asked him to stop. He tried brushing up against me and tried to 'fix' my hair, etc. I moved away each time. He teared up a few times and said he wishes we could go back and fix us so this wouldn't be happening. He said he's so sorry I felt so depressed and alone, and he wishes he would have gotten me the help that I asked for. Another HUGE 180 for him! I think he's finally starting to face reality and start the growing process. He told me that our conversation yesterday really helped him. He said he's letting go of what he cannot control, and he's going to focus on what he can control (himself). He has repeatedly said that he knows this had to happen in order for me to find myself. Perhaps he's right. Maybe I could have snapped out of the codependency with counseling. We'll never know now.
We had to come to my house after Burger King (and after picking up D from school) because I needed the kids' SSNs. He isn't to come into the house anymore, but he did come in to use the restroom. He only stayed a few minutes while we finished the paperwork. He lingered at the door when it was time for him to leave, just staring at me and tearing up. I blurted out "You are so in love with me still." He said, "It's pretty pitiful, isn't it?" He called me a couple of minutes after he left and asked me why I said that. I told him that it's frustrating to have 2 people who are in love with each other that aren't together. He quietly agreed and in a choked up voice told me to have a good night and that he'd see me tomorrow morning at 9am when he comes to get the kids for the day.
"The more time that passes by, the more he starts taking responsibility for his choices and actions."
Unless he actually seeks help or tries to figure out how to set things right rather than running away he is not taking responsibility. Taking responsibility is taking action.
"He took my wrist and sniffed it and said I smell amazing (lemon essential oil)."
Kind of weird.
IMHO, I would suggest to him that you deserve much more and that you totally agree with the breakup and that he does have alot to grow. And that you are not going to wait for him since he has shown no sign of actually doing so. Try being a little less 'nice' and throw in some attitude.
The thing is that you want him to want to do the work to make things better. But regardless of that, you keep getting yourself strong.
LOL! I was smelling my own wrist first because I caught a whiff of it when fixing my hair and just absolutely love the smell of lemon. He was curious and wanted to smell. He didn't just grab it out of nowhere. That would be kind of weird.
As for what you said I should say, that's pretty much what I said yesterday in the car
I agreed with him when he said this needed to happen. He said in so many different ways that I deserve better than what he could give me right now. My 'attitude' about all of it is what had/has him freaked out about truly losing me and I believe is what has kick-started what seems to be the start of his growing period.
I feel pretty strong
I'm GAL this weekend while he has the kids (they'll be staying the nights with me, as always, because he works until midnight usually). Well, I'll be studying most of Sunday, but I'm taking my BFF to lunch tomorrow for her birthday.
Great job! Then I would also add the idea that you AND the kids deserve better. If he thinks you being with another guy is bad, the idea that another guy is going to be playing with his kids is going to drive him through the roof.
He just texted me a horrible picture of me that my S took today. He had his dad's phone and was giggling away, snapping pictures of us filling out the joint custody agreement. He must have taken a hundred pictures. J sent it to me and said "I thought you'd want that lol."
That's the first time he's texted me not on official business since he left.
I swear sometimes he sounds like he is the LBS, and you're the WAW.
Keep it up.
GB- That same thought has passed through my mind a few times lately. It is starting to feel that way. The stronger I get, the more I realize that I deserve better, and he knows it and wants to BE better. We'll just have to see what happens.
He'll be here to get the kids in a little over an hour.
He just left with the kids. We exchanged in the driveway, so he didn't come inside at all. He stared at me the whole time and commented on how gorgeous I am, lol.
He was over a half hour late getting here. He said his alarm didn't go off. I made it clear to him that he needs to get here on time. He has seats for the kids, at least.
Ugh. I'm choked up right now. I wish I could hang out with him and the kids
I miss our family time so much. We've talked so much the past couple of days and I've seen him quite a bit, so it's hard to go back to only seeing him a few minutes each day. That's all it'll be now that he doesn't come into the house anymore and it's not like it's warm outside so we can stand around and chat. We shouldn't be anyway, I know. I just miss him so much, and I know he feels the same way about me.
I still have 2 hours before lunch with my BFF.
Ugh, I am emotional. Convince me that I should not suggest we all go to the kid museum together tomorrow! They were going to go today, but are going tomorrow instead. At this point there is no way my suggesting we spend time together would be seen as pursuing in a negative way to him. He'd be thrilled. Convince me as to WHY we need space.
I never know when it's going to hit me like this.
"The more time that passes by, the more he starts taking responsibility for his choices and actions."
Unless he actually seeks help or tries to figure out how to set things right rather than running away he is not taking responsibility. Taking responsibility is taking action.
"He took my wrist and sniffed it and said I smell amazing (lemon essential oil)."
I agree with Mr Bond Jenna. You just need to fine tune this a little bit and you will be better off. I think with a kick in the a$$ he will grow up. He sounds like what he is, a young guy needing to grow up.
Kind of weird.
IMHO, I would suggest to him that you deserve much more and that you totally agree with the breakup and that he does have alot to grow. And that you are not going to wait for him since he has shown no sign of actually doing so. Try being a little less 'nice' and throw in some attitude.
The thing is that you want him to want to do the work to make things better. But regardless of that, you keep getting yourself strong.
I agree with Mr Bond Jenna. You just need to fine tune this a little bit and you will be better off. I think with a kick in the a$$ he will grow up. He sounds like what he is, a young guy needing to grow up.
Ugh, I am emotional. Convince me that I should not suggest we all go to the kid museum together tomorrow! They were going to go today, but are going tomorrow instead. At this point there is no way my suggesting we spend time together would be seen as pursuing in a negative way to him. He'd be thrilled. Convince me as to WHY we need space.
I never know when it's going to hit me like this.
I'm not sure you need space if you are in the type of realtionship you want (duh), but what I mean is, if he's going to be wildly in love with you but want to have a few hookups because he never lived that world before, then you can't let that happen. If he's going to "f" around then he can't have you and son. You may not agree but I'd hate to see you sell yourself short.
We both needed a kick in the ass to change. Hopefully he'll change and want to come back to our family, but it not, at least he'll be a better father to the kids. We both need to work on our parenting. We aren't bad parents by any means, but there could definitely be improvements made.
I had a nice time at lunch with my BFF
Then I bought myself a pretty top for only $10 and got a few things at the grocery store. I now need a size S in tops, so I'm building up my wardrobe little by little.
Kids will be home in an hour.
I need to remember to have PATIENCE. The seeds of change have been planted. Now they need time to grow. Maybe a lot more time than I'm anticipating. I did not expect to change this dramatically in only 7 weeks. He may need a lot longer.
Rick, I understand what you're saying. I'm done selling myself short. I told him flat out that I deserve more than that and that he has to want ALL of me. He said he does. He said its hard because he doesn't want the 'old' me, but the 'new' me is what he hoped I'd turn into our whole relationship. He's in the process of letting go of the old me.
I feel like I'm going through withdrawal
This is why I can't hang out with him and talk to him. I feel so sad and miss him so much in the days afterward when we go back to not seeing/talking to each other much. I want to call him and talk to him so much, but I won't.
Jenna - you are right, the seeds are planted and loving patience is what helps them grow. Check out on YouTube "Lessons of the Chinese Bamboo" I sent to my W and it really helped her. You really are doing great. !!!!!!!!!!
Jenna
Please don't take this the wrong way.
Get off the boards and GAL!!!
Trust me I used to impulsively check these boards every hour it seemed. So I know how you feel. This place sometimes it's the last sanctuary we get.
The point I'm trying to make is to stop thinking about the sitch so much. Become strong enough you can focus on other things like school, friends, and your son.
I can tell this is eating you away. Not good if you're starting school.
I know. It's easy to check the boards on my phone. Lately it feels like it's eating at me because he has pretty much said he wants to be with me, but needs to do growing of his own first. It's so much to take in. And I probably shouldn't believe anything he says
School is going great! It almost feels like a sanctuary for me there.
You've been in such a strong state of mind, don't let his actions start to make you get shaky again. If you can stay detached, you won't question everything so much (I seem to recall you giving me similar advice not too long ago)
I am totally guilty of over thinking all of H's words and actions.... And it's like my own mental prison.
Get some more of that yummy ice cream, find a good movie and be happy abou the woman you're becoming! That's the woman that has him all tangled up inside!!
The mental prison is what I meant.
Try to break free.
Even if it means only checking the forums once or twice.
The conversations with him need to stop. I don't know why we keep torturing ourselves by taking advantage of our natural chemistry and feelings. It is not helping us right now. Well, it's not helping me. He said it's putting things into perspective for him, and it tells him a lot that he's missing me so much. He told me he almost texted me the other night when I'd be driving by his work after getting out of school.
At one point I broke down and started crying. I told him firmly that this is messing with my head because it's obvious that he loves me and misses me, but he seems torn between me and the idea of someone new. He said, "No, it's more that I'm torn between the ideas of being with you and being without you." He said he has a lot of growing to do, and he can't wait until he's done the majority of the growing. He said he hopes we both come to the conclusion that we can work things out. He seems to be focusing all on himself and his growing and his issues rather than mine lately. He would always find a way to blame me for everything for over a month after he left. Lately, though, whenever he talks about changes and blame, he is only talking about himself. He said honesty is his biggest one, and that he has no other option than to tell the truth, because lying strips the person he's lying to of their rights, and I told him that it also does an injustice to himself by wearing down his integrity. He's also working on letting go a lot of the very negative aspects of his childhood.
He told me I look like a goddess. I've just started dressing more womanly since he left. Before I would honestly stay in my pajamas all day if I had nowhere to go, which usually I'd only have to drop D off at school and then I'd stay home all day with S. Now I get dressed every day. Not only that, I like to look nice. Today I'm wearing leggings with a knit cowl neck fitted top with a belt around the waist, and my tall boots. I feel better knowing that I look nice every day.
Since I made him aware that the long exchanges between us only make it harder on me after he's gone, he said he'll make sure they are 'short and sweet' now. I know it's not all his fault. I could easily walk in the house and say see ya later. It's SO hard to do that, though, when all I want to do is to stand around and talk to him
I need to keep in mind at all times how much it hurts later on.
He probably shouldn't be making such comments about my appearance, huh? It is a dramatic change from when we were together, though. Even if he didn't verbally say anything, his staring says it all for him, LOL. It does get on my nerves in a way, though. I told him, "This would probably be easier for you if you didn't like the way that I look so much." He said, "No, I've always thought you were gorgeous. I see YOU as a person when I look at you." I probably shouldn't have said it, but I said, "You weren't sad to leave me." He said he was, but he was just so fed up and numb. I was fed up, too, but of course I wasn't in the right frame of mind to focus on that at the time.
He brought up a bunch of good memories from our time together. When Lili was a baby and we'd go to the park, put down a blanket, bring a picnic and read books together. When we'd get the big tubs of popcorn from Blockbuster and watch movies together. He teared up while saying that he could always bring up any topic with me and I would 'get it' and would never make him feel bad/weird for bringing it up (he can be quite random).
I do see the beginnings of change in him. He isn't convincing himself that all of our good times were tainted anymore.
I just need to DETACH and not focus on it. It's incredibly hard.
Well, I just made myself some popcorn (yeah, had it on the mind after he brought it up) and I'm going to go do homework/study and put The Time Machine on
It's going to be harder to detach now that he's saying all the right things.... But it's more important that you detach now! You already know this, I'm just reaffirming it
He's very confused right now, which means that you need to be more focused than ever- if both of you start giving into confusion... Who knows what will happen.
I'm super proud of you for not walking down (too far) memory lane with him, he still needs to know that you are moving on... Even though I can imagine how many emotions came flooding back for you hearing him reminisce.... I would give anything to hear good memories from my H.
Times like these, I really wish we were all closer together so we could escape for a moment and GAL together
I am losing the mystery. I find myself to be too chatty around him since he told me he is starting to lean towards us being together again when we're ready.
The mystery is GOOD. I can see him now getting comfortable with our current dynamic again. He got comfortable before when I'd allow him to stomp all over the boundaries and would sleep with him every couple of weeks. Then I shocked him into reality when I refused to answer his pruning questions about my personal life and he started seeing that he WILL lose me if he doesn't get to work on himself. Now when he sees me, he's sure to tell me that he's changing for himself, which means they'll be real changes.
But we're talking too much. Flirting too much. I don't want to settle back into that dynamic again. He snapped out of it a bit when I stopped chatting and flirting. I'm not helping anyone or anything by giving in to what feels natural. Begging and pleading felt natural, after all, and they were the wrong things to be doing.
Probing questions, not pruning. Thank you autocorrect
Jenna - you're doing the right things and I think you are both going in the right direction as individuals and as a M. However, and I say this because I'm living it too, is that its harder to detach when you start the process of rebuilding. It's so hard to not just cave into the immedite good feeling. Unfortunately the burden is on you to control how much you need to detach for his own and your own good vs keeping the road open for him to come back.
It's a shitload to handle at your age and as a Mom with two kids. I think you're doing really well and respect you for it. You can do this the right way...you're strong.
Thanks Rick. I wouldn't even consider this rebuilding since we're still open to see others
I'm feeling stronger and like I can detach again and not chat/flirt with him. I did a good job of it today
He noticed. He sent me a text after we switch off the kids and I got back on the road to drive to school. He said "Have fun at school." Remember, he had not sent me ANY texts not regarding official business until a few days ago. Baby steps. He's started changing once he realized that I'm not going to give him back his cake!
I need you to drill this 'NO CAKE' idea into my head!!
I'm so impressed that you are getting him to take notice... and it makes me want to do it too
Way to go Jenna!!!
Do it, Pur! What do you have to lose, ya know? Spark his curiosity and in the process, cultivate your strength.
It's coming up on 2 weeks since we last ML. I will not give in. I will not give in. I will not give in...
It's very difficult! I'm relieved that the new boundaries make it hard for that opportunity to even arise. Before it was too easy, with him coming into the house and lingering.
It's a physical ache that I feel for him
I want to kiss and hold him. I know he feels the same way about me. I hope not letting him eat his cake anymore will cause him to snap out of it even further. The last time we really talked (yesterday morning when he came to get the kids), he brought up our amazing chemistry and said we didn't tap into it as much as we should have while we were together. He's realizing more and more how different things would be simply because of MY changes. He just has to make his own now. I'm still living my life as though he's not coming back.
It's coming up on 2 weeks since we last ML. I will not give in. I will not give in. I will not give in...
It's very difficult! I'm relieved that the new boundaries make it hard for that opportunity to even arise. Before it was too easy, with him coming into the house and lingering.
It's a physical ache that I feel for him
I want to kiss and hold him. I know he feels the same way about me. I hope not letting him eat his cake anymore will cause him to snap out of it even further. The last time we really talked (yesterday morning when he came to get the kids), he brought up our amazing chemistry and said we didn't tap into it as much as we should have while we were together. He's realizing more and more how different things would be simply because of MY changes. He just has to make his own now. I'm still living my life as though he's not coming back.
I'm so ... proud of you if I can say that about a stranger. You're doing fantastic! And that chemistry is not going *anywhere*!! This distance you're creating is feeding that chemistry and making it even more pronounced. It's just what the DR ordered. Good for you chiquita!!!
That's good Jenna...baby steps
Thanks, guys
I stayed upstairs while he dropped off S after dropping off D at school about a half hour ago. We talked, but I stayed out of sight (I'm in my pajamas a look a mess!). He wanted me to come down and talk, but I said no. We chatted about the kids and school. Man, we even have a blast just chatting about math homework. He mentioned what he made the kids for dinner and I let it slip that I miss his cooking. He said, "I'd be happy to cook for you sometime." He brought up my changes and said that I'm turning out to be so amazing. He also brought me donuts. We used to have fun picking out donuts for each other as a treat sometimes.
It's so much to take in, you know? I have to let these conversations roll off my back.
He'll be back to pick up S in a couple of hours, after class. I need to shower and get started on homework and studying.
I can only imagine the temptation you're facing...it would.be so easy to slip back into ML with him...but I'm super proud that you are sticking to your boundaries!! You know.that it will have the greatest impact in the long run.
I would give anything to hear my H say that he misses me- he!!, id even settle.for.him wanting to fool around.with me at this.point!! I'm with you on the physical ache....even a kiss right now.I think could.send me.over the.edge!
(Please excuse all the typos- I'm on my kindle :/)
You are.doing an amazing.job keeping.your head focused and.not.crossing those boundaries!!!!
The temptation is very hard to resist! But I remember very well how I feel after giving into it, and I'd rather take the ache and face that we may never be together again than to feel that way again. I know I'm worth more than that. Even if he isn't consciously realizing it, he's using me and we're manipulating each other. When it happens it doesn't feel like I'm taking steps backwards, it feels like I'm ting off running in the wrong direction. I will NOT make that mistake again. It feels right, but it isn't. Doing what feels natural does NOT work.
It really sounded like a date invite, the way he worded cooking for me, didn't it? If we decided to try again I would absolutely want us to start off as dating. How fun and exciting! Getting to know each other all over again. BUT, at this point, it would not be exclusive and I know that, and there's no way I could date him if we weren't exclusive and working on rebuilding our R. So, his words can't affect me anymore. Not if they aren't backed by true growth on his end.
And Pur, he has to have the opportunity to miss you first. I was so very against 'H' not being around as much, but once he saw that he wasn't welcome to come and go as he pleased, he started realizing what he was really throwing away by leaving me.
Well, I did it. Followed your lead.... He is no longer going to eat cake at my house.
It didn't come about the way I had hoped (read tonight's post for the nasty details), but I made it clear that he has to consider himself a guest in this house because he's made it clear that he doesn't want *this* life.... he actually said he was "fine with that." No emotion, no negotiating.
I don't have any expectations that this will cause some kind of reflection in him, he appears to be getting exactly what he wants.... this suxx!
Purg--
My H made it clear when he walked out that he was done. Almost 7 months later, we are trying to work things out.
Have faith.
I live in florida. We should get together and paint the town.
Jenna--
I am very proud of you. Keep up the good work.
(jenna sorry for the hijack)
Hope- thanks for the "hope" ( you live up to your name!) In 4 months he will be in AFG, so I have to hope that DB efforts make an impression before he leaves.
I'm going to be in Orlando/Sebring area for super bowl weekend, then Pensacola at my parents. I'm up for a good time since I will be without H and kids
I am an hour away from Orlando on the east coast. And I will be without my D.
(((Pur))) I'm reading through your update. I am so proud of you!
Well, I have a whopper of an update! I need advice! And quick. He'll be back here in a little over an hour.
Yesterday afternoon when he came to pick up S after he got out of class, he ended up helping me with a few things around the house. I move in a couple of weeks and we're in the process of fixing up the house. After a while, I walked away from him and told him it made me feel a bit uncomfortable to be chatting with him and to be so close to him. This struck him, and he followed me to the couch to talk with me. I explained that his presence doesn't make me uncomfortable (quite the opposite, actually), but that the dynamic between us shouldn't be so relaxed, and that there should be a wall up in between us. We talked for a while, he made some food for himself (my idea, because I knew if he left it would be a mistake...I just knew we needed this talk) and I put on P.S. I Love You. We watched it together for a while and eventually held hands. I looked over at him and he was tearing up. He leaned over and tried to kiss me a couple of times, and I turned away. He told me it seems like I'm already moving on, and that that scares him because he knows we could be so great together. We talked about the changes we're making/need to make and how different things could really be between us. I had it in my head that I would NOT ML to him anymore. Oy. I threw it out the window. We were just talking and at one point he told me he was so sorry I had to put up with his lies for so long and that he ruined so much of our relationship. Emotions just overcame me. To hear him take responsibility for his own actions and not blame me for them, and not only to hear it, but to know that he believes it. I grabbed him and kissed him...and we ML. It was extremely emotional...but in a way it really felt like a goodbye to me. I felt like I would be ok if he were to never come back. I told him it felt like a goodbye, and he started all out bawling. He told me he loves me and knows we need time for our changes to take hold, but that we really could be amazing together. He even told me he's starting to feel that he could absolutely see himself marrying me. That is ENORMOUS for him. I had to leave for class and they had to meet his mom at Olive Garden for dinner, so we didn't have a chance to talk afterward.
I texted him when I got to school. I asked him if he was ok. That was the first time I've texted him not regarding official business since he left. He started texting me once in a while last week. This is part of our convo:
M: Are you ok?
J: Yeah I guess. Why are you asking, though?
M: Because I care about you, goof!
J: Well Jenna thanks. It makes me happy to know that even after all my BS you still care, albeit les than before but still, it's something.
M: I'll always care about you.
J: And I'll always care about you
And then I took a chance. I invited him on a date with me last night. I don't know what my thought processes were. I guess I just felt like we were both feeling and saying the right things...I just wanted to push it to the next level. I know I'm the LBS and that I probably should have waited for him to make that move, but my pursuing him is a 180 for me when it comes to the dynamic in our relationship, so it makes sense to me. He accepted! We met at my house after I got off from school. He was so lovey with me. It was so obvious how excited he was to be taking me out
I honestly wanted to show him how changed I am when it comes to being out in public. I have been socially awkward my entire life...to the point where I would make our date nights miserable because I would complain about the drinks, the company, etc. I was a giant drag. I feel like a weight has been lifted off of me, and that weight was fear. I guess I just wanted to show him how another aspect of our lives together could be like if we were to get back together.
We had an absolute blast! Not much was going on on a Tuesday night, so we went to a casino and sat at a bar, drank, gambled a little, made out, and talked and laughed for a couple of hours. I was bordering on drunk. I never get drunk! I'm not obnoxious or anything when I drink, so that's a plus
He always wanted us to be able to drink together, but I would always find something to complain about. He was very pleasantly surprised at how last night went. At one point he said he is loving getting to know me again, and I told him I feel the same way about him. We ended up picking up the kids and putting them in their own beds at my house, and he stayed the night. We ML again, and cuddled together all night. This morning he told me even more than ML to me he loves cuddling me and just being close to me.
So...we have done a ton of talking since yesterday! It's hard to remember everything now. This morning we talked a little about where we are right now and what we think is going to happen. Oh! Last night he said he's leaning much more toward yes than no when it comes to us getting back together. Back to this morning (sorry, my mind is all jumbled up this morning). He asked me how I'd feel about us dating each other and getting to know each other again. I brought up how I don't feel it would really work unless we were exclusive. I asked him if he could handle going out with me and then me going out with someone else. He admitted that no, he couldn't. He knows that I'm going out with my BFF this Friday night and I mentioned wanting to 'let loose' and how even that affected him. We fell back to sleep for a while, and then right as he was getting ready to leave for class, he brought up where we are again. I asked him how he felt about us taking this slow and getting to know each other again. He asked how I feel about us not seeing other people. I said I would be willing to date him if we decided not to involve other people. He said, "I'm not really worried about other people right now." I know he's having a hard time letting go of the fantasy of someone new, but he does not want to lose me, and he's starting to see that it's not worth it to drop me for the possibility of something new. What we have is so real and so wonderful.
So, he's going to come back here after class and we're going to discuss where we are. I'm trying not to get my hopes up! It really sounds like he was leaning towards saying we should start dating each other and getting to know each other again. He cuddled me and said, "I really want to get to know you. I had such an amazing time with you last night." He's so happy that I've broken free of the chains I put on myself and kept there for so long. It's like I'm blossoming before his eyes
Any advice? I'm trying to have no expectations. I'm worrying that he will come here and say he thought about it and feels we're rushing things by deciding to cut out other people and that we should work on ourselves separately...all of the things he's been saying for a while now.
He just called. He asked if I have garlic here. When I asked why, he said you'll see
Aww, he's going to cook for me.
Play it cool. I know it all sounds great and wonderful, but he has to feel like he has to make himself worthy of you. Not the other way around.
There are alot of false starts to reconciliation because of the high of all the emotions. Once those start to fade and the "real" relationship takes hold, that's where the real work begins.
If he decides that rebuilding us is more important than seeing other people, we will be taking it slow, for sure. And we'd get into counseling.
Good. Make sure you don't forget that. Good luck! Sounds very promising.
Wow, Jenna! That is a lot to process all at once! I really hope that he is genuine about what he says to you, but I can't help but smile for you!
Thank you! I'm a bit nervous. Tomorrow marks 8 weeks since he left. It feels like it's been so much longer. He should be here in about 10 minutes.
What I find to be promising is that he wants a healthy, functional relationship, and that he sees issues within himself that contributed to our downfall that he wants to change. He also wants to change for himself
My changes are real and lasting because I changed for myself. My changes inspired him.
Our relationship was riddled with large issues literally from the start. If we start rebuilding, we'll be in a better place than we've even been in. It would be very hard, but everything that is worth it takes hard work.
Breathe, stay calm. There's a lot going in all at once, and it's alldap exciting. I really hope he's genuine and honest about his intentions.....
Make sure you have a great day with him!!! (and just know that the rest of us LBS are a little jealous
.
But really happy for you
Jenna - listen to Mr Bond!!!!!!!!!!!! Keep your head about you too!
He's in the bathroom...I just have to update!
We're exclusive! OMG! We're 'trial dating'. We're getting to know each other again. We're going to go on a date every Wednesday night
I am so excited! He misunderstood me while we were talking and thought I said I didn't want to date him, and he was pretty crushed. He really wants this
So do I.
Good show Jenna! Keep it up.
Thank you so much! We both agree that jumping back into a relationship would likely mean death to the R itself, but we both pretty much know we'll make it through this
We'll still be living apart and just letting things fall into place naturally.
He was actually the one that brought up wanting to be exclusive.
Jenna - so it's true, hope can come true. Dont forget the lessons here and tread lightly!
hip hip hooray!
Take it slow
We're still going through with filing child support and I'm still moving into my apartment and he won't be moving with. Does that make sense? We feel that stopping child support especially will put pressure on us to be fully back together, which is the opposite of what we want right now. We want to take this sloooow.
The issue with the child support doesn't make sense. Once you enter money into the equation there's going to be much more stress. IMHO.
Not filing makes it seem like we're together, though, which we aren't. And it needs to be filed if I am to get public assistance, which I honestly will need to be able to survive on my own until I'm on my feet.
We're filing ourselves, so there won't be court involved. He'll be giving me money directly, which is what he's been doing since he left.
So, I'm feeling like we should start counseling soon. If he cares about the future of our R, he should agree, right? He said last week he wouldn't be against it. But we're only dating right now. I still feel compelled to have us start ASAP.
I have many friends making me feel like a total idiot for deciding to date him
That he hasn't changed enough and the fact that we aren't official but we are exclusive is his way of controlling me.
Friends and family can often give the worst M advise. If you play this out and don't betray the boundaries you have set you will be okay.
I'm not sure what the boundaries should be for piecing.
The counseling is a must. Right now he's relying on his emotional high. Once that wears off, he's going to leave again because he hasn't LEARNED anything about why he feels the way he does. With awareness comes stability. The C should be a dealbreaker for you.
Right now you're in the driver's seat. Get him to agree to it or else you're gone. Ask nicely, but firmly.
I'll ask him today.
I'm scared that I'm truly done
I don't feel happy about this dating deal. I started feeling iffy last night, and it's only gotten worse. I've grown so much that I see that I deserve better than what he has to offer me right now. I still don't trust him.
I've grown so much that I see that I deserve better than what he has to offer me right now.
This thought has crossed my mind a few times. I feel like we're doing so much to look deep inside ourselves, better ourselves, and think about what WE want. And if/when the WAS/WAW "comes out of it" and decides to re-commit to the R, they will likely go back to their "old" selves. They didn't go through the "enlightening" process that we're going through. I feel like in the end we end up at different levels and have 2 choices: accept who they are and only apply our new things in the R, or we will have these "new" ideas of what we want from a R, but they may not agree or be willing to make the changes that they need to make (let's face it - they aren't perfect and need some learning, too). I guess I'm getting ahead of myself and will have to face it when time comes. Need to focus on TODAY.
Yes this is the Piecing trap. You've grown so much that you know what a relationship COULD be. The problem is that even if you went into another relationship, the new person would probably not have the same knowledge you do either and will end up disappointing you also.
Counseling should help to bring you and your partner to a level playing field. Getting rid of expectations is the first thing to let go of.
Jenna - take if from another who is living this too. The road back for your spouse will not be a smooth upward progression to a new relationship. It will be a series of ups and downs but overall you hope it will get better.
He is showing signs of getting it together, although be careful its not just an immature kid getting off on the high of the emotion.
If you love him and your M, and you know your boundaries, and he is doing the work to rebuild himself and the M then maybe its worth letting this playout.
I understand your thought process about how you deserve better. I wrestle with this too. You do deserve better, but maybe that "better" is with a H who has grown. Maybe give this a chance?
Thanks guys. You're right. Here's an update...
When he came over yesterday, we talked. I felt numb all day yesterday. I was so confused and freaked out by how I felt. I said some pretty final things to him. I told him I didn't think I could do this, I can't trust him, all of it didn't feel right to me. He was blindsided. He told me he hadn't felt that happy in a very long time...since long before he left me. He had told all of his friends and even his brother, who were all supportive and happy for him. He was bawling. He wondered how all of it could have changed overnight. He said he thought we were taking it slow, like we said we were, so why was I making this rash decision? Anyway, he was totally crushed. He told me he'd go to counseling with me. I sat there, numb, not showing emotion while he cried. We couldn't finish our talk. I had to rush out of the door for school.
I talked to a friend on the way to school about it and did a lot of thinking while there. J and I met after school and work to talk. I realized that one of the main reasons I was so freaked out was because I let myself slip back into the person I used to be. I felt so much anxiety and fear yesterday. I hadn't felt that since before I started improving myself. It had more to do with me than it did with J.
During the talk that afternoon, he said he felt like we were on such a great path. We would still be living apart and finding our independence and happiness within ourselves, and when we'd be around each other, we'd get to know each other and grow in love. He said he was so happy to have me back, that he's sorry for everything he's put me through, and that he is well on his way to making positive changes for himself and the kids. He was talking about being a better parent and a better man.
We're going to start counseling ASAP. I feel like I'm ready to give this a shot. It's exciting because he is serious about this, especially if he already told everyone. We're going to do this right. I'm going to call about counseling today.
I'm going with my head and my heart. We're taking it slow. We won't be seeing each other often. I'll still be doing my own thing I'm driving the kids up to my grandparents' house this afternoon. I'll hang out for a while, then I'm driving back down for the night. My gparents invited them up for the monthly soup night in their little town
I'm going out with my BFF. Maybe bowling or a movie or something. She's known J and I for over 10 years. She's happy for us
Though we're taking this slow, J says he wants me back for good. He's serious about it. I feel relieved and more relaxed about this because I know we'll be going to counseling. We're getting to know each other again.
Oh, and he said he'd tell the female coworker he'd been texting with (he was interested in her when he left me) not to text him anymore. He said he was weirded out by me asking him to the night before because nothing happened between them and they didn't text often.
We have a counseling appointment set for Tuesday, February 21st
That's the soonest they had.
It's odd trying to figure out how often we should see each other, should we still switch off weekends when it comes to the kids, etc. He said maybe next weekend we'll do one day separate, and one day all together. To ease into all of this and take it slow. He's worried I'll 'change my mind' again.
So glad that you were able to reflect on your anxiety and realize that it was coming from you, not him. You have put a lot of effort into discovering the new you and taking steps to repair things you didn't like about yourself... He needs to bring the same amount of respect and effort to the the R.
I think it's a positive step that he's willing to go to therapy, don't ever mention that he never wanted to go before- only appreciate his attendance now.
(In a way, he's pursuing you and willing to jump through hoops to be with you.... Like a LBS.) you can understand his desperation right now, don't take advantage of it. BUT, just like we've all been trying to prove for our WAS- make sure that his actions aren't just tactics to 'keep you'.
I think you have such potential for a wonderful R!! (whether you ever get M or not)
Enjoy this new development with him, just as if you were dating some one new... Well, he kinda *is* new- the new and improved him!
Thanks Pur
You're right in that he is behaving a bit like a LBS. I think that's because in the end I started actually moving on and wasn't just waiting for him to come back. I had to choose to go into this with him, it wasn't just a given that I would. He keeps asking me if I'm sure I want this. He's told me he's scared I'm settling for him and that he doesn't want to hold me back.
I went out last night with my brother, BFF, and BFF's new boyfriend. We had a good time. J went out as well, and I received a few texts from him. These are the texts he sent me
"How's your night baby?" I told him it was going great and asked how his night was going.
"It's fun, just making the rounds haha. Damn I love you"
"Haha, I only smile when I think about you :)"
"I'm sorry, you're always in my mind, your legs must be tired from all the running ;)" He was drunk when he sent me that last one, haha.
He's asleep right next to me right now. We're hanging out for a few hours before my grandparents drop the kids off. We talked for a bit. I asked him if he was sorry for the pain he caused me and he said yes. He said he's so sorry he hurt me like that, and that he knows just saying that doesn't make it up to me. I told him we're making it up by becoming the best we can be and giving us another chance
I guess I'm just feeling the need to help him realize what I went through when he left and that coming back together won't be seamless. I started to feel comfortable on my own. I love having him back, but I'm not used to it yet. I'm finding myself struggling internally with emotions I didn't expect to be feeling.
Yesterday he told me I've always had this power over him, and he can't help but want to do everything for me and be whatever I want him to be. He smiles when he says it, but I think he fears how strongly he's always felt for me. He really lost himself in me, and I lost myself in him. I used to take advantage of the power he let me have over him. I told him yesterday that I don't want us to have power struggles anymore. I don't want to have power over him, or vice-versa. It's a delicate situation. He feels very vulnerable when it comes to me, and I need to be careful to not take advantage of him because of it. That makes me sound terrible, I know, but I have had control issues for a long time. He made himself look weak around me for most of our R because he wouldn't stand up for himself to me. I want him to speak up, to not take crap from anyone. And I don't want to give him crap to take.
I'm so glad we're going to counseling! I've been wanting to for years.
We listened to For The First Time by The Scipt together. I wanted him to hear it because it reminds me of what we're going through. I started crying and he held me and told me he loves me and that we'll make it through this.
We did a lot of great talking today. We were both miserable with the control, trust, and codependency issues on both sides in the old R. I am excited to work on creating a wonderful relationship with trust, independence, respect, LOVE
J is feeling the same way. We talked today about what he needs to change and what we both feel we need and want from ourselves and out of our new relationship. It was a very productive talk
He told me he wants to become more responsible, more calm with the kids, trustworthy. From the relationship we both want pretty much the same things.
I'm still in shock that he's back. I actually burst into tears over it earlier today while I was cleaning. I truly opened my heart to him after that talk 2 days ago. He's had his heart opened to me since we decided to date each other exclusively. I explained to him today that I need reassurance from him that he won't be leaving, that he really wants this, and that he will work on himself. He is ready and actually very excited to embark on this path with me
The trust is the hardest part. He doesn't fully trust me, either. I've done my share to break his trust in me. The fact that he agreed to counseling shows me that he's started changing
I believe it will only get better from here!
Our mushy texts from earlier:
Me: "I feel so happy and full of promise and hope <3 I just wanted you to know that, sweetheart. I love you!"
J: "Aww baby, I feel the same way, and look forward to us growing together
I love you too"
I sent him that because he also needs reassurance from me that this is what I want. He hasn't been convinced since I pretty much told him I couldn't do it a couple days ago. Time will help, as will space and loving communication and respect.
Sounds like you guys are getting comfortable again... Enjoy this new relationship!!
(don't leave us now that things are turing positive for you... I know that I still need some sound advice and a reality check!)
So happy for you, sweetie!!!
Thanks, Pur
I won't be leaving. I want to see you through your sitch!
J and I texted a bunch late last night. The excitement just seeps through our words
This feels like a dream come true. I need to keep my feet firmly planted in reality! He told me he can't wait to become the man he's always wanted to be but never thought he could be.
He's going to stay over tonight. I told him it's fun having him over sometimes. He said it reminds him of when we were teens and he used to sneak in to be with me when my mom was out of town. Ha! This dating thing is fun
My D is at her first official play date at a classmate's house. She's been looking forward to this for days
S and I are at the park. I tried studying but the darn wind is blowing my papers around. I think we may go get lunch soon
You certainly are full of good news...I want to get those kind of text messages too!
I'm struggling on and off with anxiety. It's hard to try to come back together after he left me and hurt me to such a degree. Trusting that he won't leave again and that he does mean what he's saying will just come with time and consistency, I suppose. I wish our counseling appointment was sooner than the 21st.
Things are going very well. We're planning on moving in together in maybe a couple of months. He's going to not get his own place. He's going to stay at his mom's to save money, then move into the apartment with the kids and I. We're not going through with legal child support. We're pretty positive we'll be back together for good before long.
It's just so much, so fast, kwim? He had been pondering coming home since a few weeks after he left, and I did see signs of that, but I tried to tell myself that it wasn't going to happen and he just wanted to cake eat. He was confused and didn't want to come back until he was sure things would be different and he truly wanted it.
I just need to take some deep breaths. He IS happy to be with me. He DOES want this. He even talked to me about Valentine's Day. He's always made me truffles every year. He was excitedly talking about what we could get each other that day. We were mostly joking about trading sexual favors
He told me he loves me, he loves being with me and talking to me...he said all of this feels so right.
I just need to take deep breaths, let it all sink in, and trust that he means all of it. It's like I know he does, but I'm scared. I don't want to be scared. Fear held me back my entire life. I need to trust that he wants this as much as I do (I think he thinks he wants it more) and that we'll do everything we can to become happy people who when together, only amplify each other's happiness
His words.
My .02.
"I sent him that because he also needs reassurance from me that this is what I want."
YOU aren't the one who needs to give reassurance. HE does. He left and so he knows (even in the back of his mind) that he has a way out. He has to be able to make you feel reassured.
All that talk about how you're amazing, etc. Isn't reassurance. It's riding the wave of emotion which will wear out. I've seen it time and time again and it's de-railed many people's reconciliations.
How has he reassured you? That's the only way to get your anxiety level down. You don't trust him and he needs to figure out how he can earn your trust again.
He's reassuring me by agreeing to go to counseling, which is something he never would do before. Also by the way he's talking. I can tell he believes in himself and in me in a way that he never had before.
Jenna - I think you two will succeed together if you can both allow each other to go within yourselves as needed. Just remember the honeymmon always ends. I don't mean that in a negative way. I mean that euphoria passes and then you need to live by the new foundation the two of you have built. If you have time read The Five Love Languages. Its an easy read but well worth it for both of you to read, and its' not a bad read for a guy either. It's not gay or anything. You may have to tell him that first.
Please go to my thread for today "DB'ing is sooooo hard (part 3) and read the things Mach1 said to me. I think this will help you with your fear, and your desire to not be a slave to it.
We took the love languages test a year or two ago, but haven't read the book. I don't remember the wording of it all, but I do know how we show love and feel loved. He shows love by giving gifts and caretaking. He feels loved through affection (physical and verbal) and being taken care of the way he's always enjoyed taking care of me. The way I want to show love has changed. It's not surprising, considering how many changes I've made within myself in the past 8 weeks
I find myself wanting to gift give and caretake. Probably because I never reciprocated before, and I want to show him how good it feels.
I had a great conversation with my dad yesterday about my anxiety through this reconciliation process so far. He told me that if I don't take that step (leap!) and trust J to make his own choices, and to make the appropriate and smart ones, I'll never be giving the relationship a chance at all. I'd be dooming it from the start. It's so true. For so long I held on to my fear and anxiety because I felt it protected me from what I knew would end up hurting me. In reality I was only hurting myself and damaging our R by not doing my part. If I knew I was not trusted no matter what I did, I'm not sure it would be great motivation to live up to impossible standards. Now, he never should have lied, and he knows that. I'm only saying that I never took the chance to trust him. I'm going to do it now. It won't come overnight by any means, but I'm starting the process now.
J had the kids last night, like he does every Mon and Tues nights. After I got out of class he texted me to ask how it went. Then he called after I got home. We talked for an hour
We chatted about his programming homework and my medical terminology exam. When I told him I had to get to bed, he teased me by pouting about how I must not want to talk to him anymore. It reminded me of when we'd talk all night on the phone together as teens. "No, you hang up first!" LOL.
Taking it slow is fun, but odd sometimes. We're never sure if we should say I love you when parting, but the pause for it is always there and we know we're both thinking it. I know we both fear rushing this. I've gotten close to asking him to just move in with us when the kids and I move in less than 2 weeks. I won't, though.
Ohhh medical terminology exams! I remember when I had my final. I worked in a nightclub at the time. From 9-11 pm when the club was slow, I had my co-bartenders quizz me from cue-cards I made up. I broke it all down to prefix, suffix and combining forms.
I took Veterinary Medical terminology though.
And yes, take it slooooooowww! Do not move in until you've had some sucessful MC!
Let that stuff work for you guys and change the dynamics even more so you are less likely to fall into any old bad habits with one another!
I'm really happy for you guys and while I do admit, I'm a tad jealous, (:S) I am over the moon you two are on the road of a new R~~
I agree with 111, I wouldn't think about moving in until after that MC appointment. It will force you guys to take it slow if you give yourself a specific date to "check-in" with your status, ie: at the MC appointment.
Don't you love how dad's always seem to have the right thing to say?? It's great they he is supporting you through this challenging stage
It must be fun to feel like teenagers again- not wanting to get off the phone
I wouldn't shy away from little things like that- after all, weren't those types of interactions a part of your original courtship? I think we should put ourselves back into a "newbie's" mindset and do the things that connected us in first place. Was there a song that you two called "your song"? Maybe a restaurant that you always associate with each other (or some other location)? Maybe try to recreate your first date for Valentines- I would even go as far as to try and find a similar outfit as the one you wore so that it really takes the two of you back to when your love was just beginning....
Good lord, I'm a sap. Or a hopeless romantic.... maybe I'm just trying to live vicariously through you since my H wants nothing to do with me...
Really happy to see that you are still being aware of the need to take it slow- if you ever forget that, you could rush back into dangerous territory.
111- Yeah, I had J quiz me in the car
He drove me to school for the first time today. I got a 93 on my exam yesterday.
Pur- We have so many special 'us' things
We're both hopeless romantics.
I'm sorry, ladies. I'd be jealous, too
Big hugs!
J has been making little comments about a surprise for me for V-Day. He also makes little comments about us doing this or that for next summer, Christmas, etc. It reassures me that he's thinking into the future in that way, and that I'm in it with him as a partner
Excited to go on our date tomorrow night! Sounds like it'll be burritos and teaching me to drive a stick shift in an empty parking lot, lol. We won't be able to get out until around 11, when he's off work and I'm off school.
This afternoon as we were leaving, he dropped a necklace that my grandma gave me when I was a kid. It's a turquoise pendant. J had had it hanging up on his rear view mirror while we were together (it's not girly looking). I asked him to give it back to me a couple of weeks ago. Well, today I handed it back to him and told him he could put it back on his mirror. He was touched and asked me if I was sure. I guess it's symbolic
He dropped it and it broke in half. See, the old me would have exploded. I would have told him he was clumsy and freaked because that necklace is special to me. Did I freak today? Nope. He apologized profusely and I smiled and told him it was ok, it can be fixed, just like us
He smiled and kissed me.
Cheesy story over!
Stay centered Jenna. Be open to this great opportunity you have but stay in tough with your own inner journey through this...and keep talking to your Dad!
Thanks, Rick
J texted me a sweet song lyric earlier and told me he's looking forward to tonight. 5 hours of class, then a date night!
Well, it's our 9th anniversary today
I had gotten to the point where I didn't think I'd be celebrating this day ever again.
I'm no longer the LBS. We had a tough conversation the other night that led to J telling me that the ball is in my court. He said he's made his decision, that he's in this 100%, and he will be here whether I feel the same way or not. I'm in this 100%. For a while I wasn't sure, but I've made up my mind. Our interactions have been really great. We don't treat each other the way we used to. I only see it getting better from here.
J told me he read an article on detachment in a magazine a couple of weeks ago and it's helped him. I think it's amazing that he came across that on his own. Detachment is always talked about here on this forum, and practicing it has helped me. J really has needed to detach. He told me he doesn't obsesss about what I'm doing or feel the need to constantly talk to me anymore. Detaching is letting go in a healthy way. We focus on our individual lives, and when we're together, the time spent is just that much better.
He's staying over tonight. We're going to have Chinese food and wine. I may go crazy and bake some cookies
If I can give any advice here, it would definitely be to focus on detaching and acting as if! J told me once he started seeing me turn into this unstoppable, amazing force, he saw a future with us together and he couldn't let it go, no matter how hard he tried to.
He sent me these texts yesterday:
"You know Jen, that's exactly how I feel. I can't wait to live my life with you by my side doing all the things we've always wanted. Your're doing so great and I'm on my way too. I love you kid, don't forget it."
"I'm soo proud of you Jenna, you're making me want to live up to the person you're becoming."
He also said that though he did have an interest in others when he left, he started seeing them as substitutions for me, and that they didn't compare
Enjoy your anniversary!!!
You must be on cloud 9 with those compliments in his texts!!!
So happy for you, got a little ready eyes reading your posts. Never thought I could have an emotional reaction... to a post... from a stranger. This website is pretty awesome, thanks for keeping up with my sitch (I need all the help I can get!)
We are struggling a bit, though. I'm struggling with believing his reasons for coming back. The girl he was interested in was not interested back. I'm feeling a bit like the next best thing. He says nothing happened and there's no way one person's reaction to him would cause him to make a life-changing decision like this. He says it's pointless to talk about it right now because it only causes us to fight and we get nowhere. He wants to wait until counseling to talk about it. He said he would have come back anyway because he's been in love with me and he couldn't deny it any longer.
I just don't want this to happen again! I hope I can learn to trust him. I know I shouldn't phrase it like that. I should say I will make the choice to trust him. Right now.