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Posted By: jlove New trying to DB-Help! - 01/25/12 11:25 PM
How to begin...been with W for 22 yrs, lived together since she just started college at 18. Married when she was 25, I'm 4 yrs older. We have a D (14), and 2 S's (9,8). She has been LD even since kids, but used to be very active. She orgasms when we ML and likes it, but tells me she doesn't. We started with no $ at beginning of marriage and thru my career used to have a very comfortable lifestyle,but that has been gone for the last 5 yrs. She has never really cared about $, and still says she doesn't, but I don't know what to believe about anything anymore!
So, a few months ago, she started coming home very late, often drunk, and I got suspicious. She works nights, and often very late too, so that part was sort of normal, but not as late as she was getting in. I asked her if their was another man, but she always denied. Turns out she was having a EA (says they never had sex) with a separated man very well off $ wise and younger. She came home very, very late one night and the next day I checked her phone and I discovered the affair. They had been texting almost daily for about 3 weeks, so I think the EA was new, but she's known him for a long time as he's in her business often. Anyway, she admitted it all, blew up and said she wanted to separate, but couldn't now then calmed down and said we'd do MC. She said it was over, and told me OM had been cheated on by his W who he is divorcing and said he told himself he'd never be that man! Anyway, I forgave her and thought we were moving on. We ML about 1 per week, was was move than usual and were patching things up, or so I thought, though she never wanted to do MC. Said she felt bad, etc (we are religious). Anyway, last weekend she didn't come home, it was after 2 am and I couldn't reach her phone, but I found her in a bar at 3 am talking to OM. I got her and we went home, but I blew up in the parking lot and told her I was confronting him to stay away from my wife. I didn't, but when we got home, she told me she was leaving and yes, it was over with him, as he wasn't going to get involved with her because she was married and they were just friends and she had been hanging out with her other friends who were also there not really taking to him all night. I don't believe that, but don't know. Anyway, at this time, she cannot move, but says she has to get out as soon as she can, and she never should have married me (15 yrs ago), hasn't loved me for many years, and cannot stand to even be touched by me (hasn't for years) and her being out late and everything else is a symptom of that. We ML just 3 days prior to that and she orgasmed and enjoyed it??? Anyway, I begged her to stay, and was clingy as I had been ever since the affair was 1st discovered, and she told me she needs space. 2 days ago, I found DB and am using the technique. We haven't touched or kissed in 3 days, but we sleep in same bed, share routines, etc. I haven't told her I love her, etc in the last 2 days. she gave a peck on the cheek today as she was going to work, and that's the most.
I love her and want to get the love back, but she says she cannot and has never wanted to be with me, so we both deserve better, etc. She admits being selfish here, and says it will be better for our kids to be around parents that show love (but not if I am the H). So, she is wanting to move out, and share custody by the week, but cannot financially at this time. we are barely getting by financially as is together. She says it's been going on for years, but just now is too much. Says it's nothing to do with OM either and he's not waiting for her to D. She turns 40 in 1 month, so there's a lot at play here, I know. Any advice is appreciated as I've rambled on for long enough now. Thanks
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/26/12 12:22 PM
Bump
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/27/12 10:51 PM
So, after this I saw a facebook message from OM (they aren't friends anymore on FB) saying I think about u all the time and am praying for u, etc. I confronted her and she acted confused? I asked her if she wanted to stay in this house after today, she had to tell him never to contact her again. She did shortly thereafter then he replied that he would always have feelings for her, hope and prayed WE worked our M out, and would honor her request, but SHE sent him a FB message 1st??? She got a blank look on her face and said she didn't remember sending him a message (she was drunk last night), so now I'm more confused. I know all this runs counter to DB, but for my own sanity, I told her if we are to live together, all contact with him had to stop. She keeps saying D is way ahead of everything and we have to live together for $ reasons, etc, but just wants to S. What should I be doing? Thanks!


Originally Posted By: jlove
How to begin...been with W for 22 yrs, lived together since she just started college at 18. Married when she was 25, I'm 4 yrs older. We have a D (14), and 2 S's (9,8). She has been LD even since kids, but used to be very active. She orgasms when we ML and likes it, but tells me she doesn't. We started with no $ at beginning of marriage and thru my career used to have a very comfortable lifestyle,but that has been gone for the last 5 yrs. She has never really cared about $, and still says she doesn't, but I don't know what to believe about anything anymore!
So, a few months ago, she started coming home very late, often drunk, and I got suspicious. She works nights, and often very late too, so that part was sort of normal, but not as late as she was getting in. I asked her if their was another man, but she always denied. Turns out she was having a EA (says they never had sex) with a separated man very well off $ wise and younger. She came home very, very late one night and the next day I checked her phone and I discovered the affair. They had been texting almost daily for about 3 weeks, so I think the EA was new, but she's known him for a long time as he's in her business often. Anyway, she admitted it all, blew up and said she wanted to separate, but couldn't now then calmed down and said we'd do MC. She said it was over, and told me OM had been cheated on by his W who he is divorcing and said he told himself he'd never be that man! Anyway, I forgave her and thought we were moving on. We ML about 1 per week, was was move than usual and were patching things up, or so I thought, though she never wanted to do MC. Said she felt bad, etc (we are religious). Anyway, last weekend she didn't come home, it was after 2 am and I couldn't reach her phone, but I found her in a bar at 3 am talking to OM. I got her and we went home, but I blew up in the parking lot and told her I was confronting him to stay away from my wife. I didn't, but when we got home, she told me she was leaving and yes, it was over with him, as he wasn't going to get involved with her because she was married and they were just friends and she had been hanging out with her other friends who were also there not really taking to him all night. I don't believe that, but don't know. Anyway, at this time, she cannot move, but says she has to get out as soon as she can, and she never should have married me (15 yrs ago), hasn't loved me for many years, and cannot stand to even be touched by me (hasn't for years) and her being out late and everything else is a symptom of that. We ML just 3 days prior to that and she orgasmed and enjoyed it??? Anyway, I begged her to stay, and was clingy as I had been ever since the affair was 1st discovered, and she told me she needs space. 2 days ago, I found DB and am using the technique. We haven't touched or kissed in 3 days, but we sleep in same bed, share routines, etc. I haven't told her I love her, etc in the last 2 days. she gave a peck on the cheek today as she was going to work, and that's the most.
I love her and want to get the love back, but she says she cannot and has never wanted to be with me, so we both deserve better, etc. She admits being selfish here, and says it will be better for our kids to be around parents that show love (but not if I am the H). So, she is wanting to move out, and share custody by the week, but cannot financially at this time. we are barely getting by financially as is together. She says it's been going on for years, but just now is too much. Says it's nothing to do with OM either and he's not waiting for her to D. She turns 40 in 1 month, so there's a lot at play here, I know. Any advice is appreciated as I've rambled on for long enough now. Thanks
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/28/12 04:59 PM
Hanging in there, our D's b day is today and we're putting on our game face, but it's really hard. I'm so frustrated and sad right now, I don't know what to do as I feel like I'm the only one of the 2 of us that cares about us. She will not be honest about OM, and I think it's her that's been chasing, and she knows she's in the wrong and hurting me deeply, but is in such a fog that she cannot see the trees for the forest to confuse to metaphors. Thanks for listening.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 01:52 AM
Hi jlove. Welcome to the forum which is the best, worst place to be.

Thanks for being patient while waiting for your thread to be picked up and responded to. While you are getting started, it may take a while to get off moderation, so DO keep journaling.

Be patient, this work is a marathon, not a sprint. And it does get easier and it does get better... DBing works to at least give us a better future, even if our M's don't survive.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 02:06 AM
Thanks KD, feel like a man on an island right now and ANY encouragement/wisdom is a blessing right now!!! Taking it day by day right now.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 02:25 AM
In the last 2 months have gone from "I haven't loved you in 5 years, to I love you, to I don't love you that way, to I loved you when I was 18, to I cannot stand it when you touch me, etc." I've lost a ton of weight and exercise regularly, which has gotten noticed, but "it's me and I can't fix that, not you now, I just need to be happy." Fell like if there wasn't OM situation described above, it wouldn't be so confusing, but here I am lost in my thoughts and confusions as W doesn't want to talk about it. Trying my best to wait it out until she does and keep calm for our sake and my 3 kids. I think we can work it out, but I cannot alone.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 02:35 AM
ok, first... you are getting the standard script. I'm sure you've been browsing this board and may have noticed some of it.

Regarding the OM as you talked about in the first post, understand that it probably has nothing to do with money. Also, unless you really know this guy, he could have been lying to your W about his own "marital problems". Finally, good you didn't confront him. It might have felt better in the moment, but it could end up a really bad thing.

It's time for you to really get down and do the work on yourself. The A is just a symptom of something else that's not working in your M and that is due to TWO people, not just your W and not just you.

You've let your W know in no uncertain terms how you feel about her R with OM. Having let her know, it is time to stop that. It is unlikely that she will forget or that you were unclear. Beating that horse will not help and may do more harm.

If you are going to do the "tough love" with your W over the A, then you need to enforce your boundaries and dish out the consequences. If the boundaries have no bite, then they are useless. But DBing isn't about controlling our spouses...

Most of the resources on DBing is strewn about this forum, but I do not see that you indicate you've picked up the books. We recommend getting the DR book for sure which is the more recent one that really puts a lot of this into a functional style of how to DB. The first book is great as well, of course.

What do you know about LRT? And how about GAL and 180s?

As the A is a symptom of a deeper M problem, what are some of the things that your W complained about, BEFORE the A and the bomb?

When do you feel things started going downhill in the M, prior to the A? What were some of the things going on? Stresses, family issues, etc???
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 03:01 PM
Thanks KD. Yes, I've read DB and got DR yesterday. I just found out about DB and this site a week ago, as I thought we were on the path to reconciliation until I found them together in bar last Sat night. Maybe we sort of were, but that started the EA all over. I really do think the OM is going thru D and his W had a PA, because my wife is best friends with many of their mutual close friends. It's a mess and I wish she'd quit that job to detach. She's looking, so maybe hope there, but I'm trying not to hope for much at this time after all the mixed messages and dissapointment.

She wants to tell D (14) about our S, should I let her? Then, my D will be very mad at her for cheating on me and I may have an ally in trying to talk sense into her? I don't want to get kids, family or anyone else involved, but am grasping and don't want to hurt kids. I don't think she realized that they will take my side over not trying to stay and reconcile.

I am an alcoholic who has been sober 3 months since all this happened and I am at least 50% responsible for all that has happened (more on this later), but I want to work to pick up pieces. I cannot talk and hang out with friends now, because they are all heavy drinkers and I'm avoiding temptation and working out obcessively right now. All for now, thanks for all the help!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/29/12 03:33 PM
Real important thing to understand here, about the A. This is pure DB and about doing things that YOU can control, which is you and your choices and actions.

Doing this from a point of view that you are on your way to becoming an even greater person than you already are, now is the time to do everything you can to improve yourself, that has nothing to do with your W or your M.

Very important to understand that you are not in a direct competition with the OM.

IOW, if he makes more money, don't think you have to make more money. If he is buff, don't think you have to bench press more than him.

Rather, if you want to make more money or be more buff, do it because you want to and feel that you will personally benefit from those things. And, you are not doing these things for your W, as mentioned above. But... she WILL notice... and she might become more curious and attracted to you... and if that is the side benefit of becoming a better person... so be it...

Does that make sense? We don't do things to manipulate (control) people. But we can become people that only a fool would leave... and if our spouses are fools... then we have the possibility these benefits will lead us to being able to create fantastic relationships in the future...

Does your W have any date planned for her departure? If not, what benefit does she feel telling your D14 that she doesn't want to be M and she will be moving out. This is for you, not to tell her, but... kids are smart... D14 most likely knows something is wrong... there's no need to tell her anything more, especially NOT about the OM at this point (she doesn't need to be told that). IF your W has everything in order to move out, that would be when that conversation takes place...

This is not about you being right and your W being wrong, but your approach to this is good. Try not to assume that anyone will take your side, BTW. Kids do not like taking sides and are likely to rebel against BOTH parents. And our family of origin are likely to take our personal sides and friends... well... I think people use that term too loosely, sometimes... I'd say you will be finding out who your real friends are, real soon, through this process... and they aren't necessarily the ones that show support to you...

Again, work on you. Stay sober and check yourself. Where you find you have things that are due for upgrades... work on those... become a better you...

It gets easier and it gets better... focus on you and how your changes can change the M...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/30/12 03:18 PM
She has no move out date nor any plans to move out at this time. Neither of us can afford it by FAR. She says she doesn't want to hurt the kids, just needs her own space. just the fantasy that all will be well if we live apart and share custody 50/50. Then nobody will be hurt in the long run and the kids will have both parents. It's a fantasy, but it's not mine, so I dunno but know it won't work out that way. I know if she could just get out of the affair fog, which i think was lifting till they had contact again, we could begin to heal and piece. If they contact each other, it all starts over again, I know. We spend a ton of time together, but we rarely talk about our relationship or A etc. i'm done asking about OM, and trying my best not to spy, etc. That's the hardest part for me now, as i know her closest friends want them to be a couple so they can all party together more. That's part of the poison right now, that IMO needs to be broken. As they these friends work with her (not OM, but he's tight with them), if she gets new job, that mat help us there, but that's a ways off...
Posted By: sandi2 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/30/12 11:53 PM
Quote:
She has been LD even since kids, but used to be very active. She orgasms when we ML and likes it, but tells me she doesn't
.

I am trying to figure out why you would put this in the first paragraph of your thread but not mention you were an alcoholic until a later post. Can you help me see what's going on here?

Quote:
I am an alcoholic who has been sober 3 months since all this happened


Why did it take this to sober up? How many times has your drinking been an issue in the MR?

She said she hasn't loved you the last five years. What happened?

Quote:
We ML just 3 days prior to that and she orgasmed and enjoyed it???


Does a man have to feel in love to reach a climax? Neither does a woman.

So beside how many times per week you had sex, and pleasured her.....tell us what kind of H you've been to her.

What did the two of you like about each other when you M? What changed in the R?
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/31/12 04:00 PM
I'm torn and confused. Just ranting at times here. I fully understand that I'm at LEAST 50% responsible for these issues and have let W know this many times in last 3 months. I was just listing this out of confusion.

My drinking has been an issue in our R for 22 years, so it's been a constant. been trying to quit for at least 5 years on and off. I guess sometimes when faced with rock bottom, people sober up? I don't want to lose W and family, so in a sick way, all of this has been good for me health wise as I'm now in the best shape I've been in in almost 30 years.

Thanks for giving me perspective on the sex issue, good point. I was just in the mindset that my wife has said for years once a month was good for her, and we were ML at least weekly the last couple of months, so to go there and then find out EA is rekindled threw me.

I have been a poor husband/father for years due to my drinking and mental issues therein. I cannot change the past, but am working on the future now, if for no other reason, than myself and being a better father to my 3 kids.

We used to go out a lot, camping, hiking, outdoor activities, exercise, etc. Then came kids and our last son is disabled at birth, so that slowed us down the last 8 years somewhat. He has been one of the greatest blessings in our lives, but there will always be challenges there, so that may be a factor in R too. Although, he will always have to live with us, or if we split, one of us for the rest of his life and he's only 8 now. That's all for now. Thanks for the insight Sandi2!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 01/31/12 11:45 PM
Journal. Today was a pretty good day. As i'm recovering from alcohol, I told her this am that I apologize from the bottom of my heart for my drinking behavior the last 22 years. sandi2 got me thinking about this yesterday and i was going to then, but ended up giving her a 30 min massage at bedtime and didn't want to harm the tranquility of that moment and her drifting to sleep. My apology is a step i need to take for me anyway regardless of the future of us, i was a crappy hubby at times for years and i have to deal with that and make sure i break that. i walked away after i told her that, but i think she thought i was bringing up A or R again and i surprised her, i think. she told me no apology needed but it was accepted and then we had a good day. she is my workout partner for over an hour a day, so at least we share that right now. All for now, later
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/01/12 08:42 PM
So far today has been pretty good after an awful night. When she got home from work, she barely said 4 words to me before bed and I was having anxiety attacks all thru the night and hardly slept. I was crawling out of my skin in bed all night, but didn't say a peep. She slept soundly thru the night and am as I got the kids ready for school and then couldn't believe she never heard youngest son thruout the night when I was up with him. She is saying "we" and talking of the future together some today and I am in my 180 not addressing any M issues or chasing, but I'm still so confused and think she's a stranger to me in many ways right now and I cannot fathom what she's really thinking. She seems to be trying to build up some level of trust in me by talking about texts and emails/FB posting from friends that's she's reading, but after being let down by EA and finding them talking and messaging on FB last week, I don't have a clue about that stuff. I am beginning to come to terms with the fact that I cannot control her contacting OM, and this is one of the hardest things I'm dealing with, as if she would stop, I thin the fog may lift slowly and help us. All I can focus on now is me I guess and that's hard when you've been living with someone for 22 years! Like many of you here know. All for now, time to help with homework.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/02/12 10:50 AM
What type of support system are you in to help you with the drinking problem?

I'm sure you realize that your W will probably see your decision not to drink as some last ditch attempt to get her to R. If I had stayed 22 yrs with an alcoholic, I would be waiting for the other shoe to hit the floor at any time. If she's thinking you'll pick the bottle up again, then that's going to be extra pressure on you. That's another reason you'll need a strong support system, b/c she may not give you the encouragement you need, for fear it might mislead you to think she's changing her mind about the M and OM, etc.

You've passed on part, and that's knowing you can't control her talking with OM. Just as she couldn't control your drinking. So, now you have to focus on you and what you can control about yourself.

I've read other stories where men came to the same point you face, and they laid it down. You can do it.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/02/12 12:56 PM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
What type of support system are you in to help you with the drinking problem?

I have been thru AA before, so working the steps. I can quit the drinking.
I think her A has gone underground now via FB messaging and limited face to face. if she is still in contact w OM, I don't see how our M is going to work and that's my main issue with my M. On "talk about marriage" site, everyone says I need to lay down final ultimatum, "give up all contact, give me passwords, etc or leave NOW." they talk about 180's and stuff, what does everyone think about this approach? She knows this is how I feel, but is this a good idea. I'm quitting drinking and changing for ME and my kids at this point, but I don't want to be a lied to fool, here to cook, clean and babysit while she carries on A and all behind my back.
Posted By: sandi2 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/03/12 12:09 PM
Here's the deal with ultimatums; if you give it then you better be prepared to back it up. Don't "use" an ultimatum as a "tool". There is a very strong chance she will not choose you over the OM. So, if you've given an ultimatum and you don't carry it through....what does that prove to her?

Don't throw threats around thinking it will shake her up and she'll find her senses.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/03/12 03:07 PM
I told her yesterday very calmly that in order for her to stay here with me and the kids, the A has to stop or she has to leave and I will tell friends and family that she was having an A and I asked her to leave. I'm willing to work on our relationship and myself, but I am starting to respect myself too much to have her use me now for a babysitter, etc... She then says that there is no A and she never cheated on my, so I guess she's moved to denial. As far as an ultimatum, I'm willing to make my stand there. The OM's D is supposedly on hold due to his ex "dragging," so if she wants to move in with him and that, so be it. She cannot stand her mother who lives an hour away, so she really doesn't have anywhere to go. I love her dearly, but am starting to realize that she may be making me a better partner for someone else down the line if she remains blinded by the fog. I'm going to talk to my minister today to pray with me over this. he won't take sides and i can confide in him. So confused. Thanks for the advice Sandi2
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/06/12 07:22 PM
Update,

Our D found out everything over the weekend listening to us talk at night and yesterday was tough. I hate seeing her in pain over this too. I think it was eye-opening for my W to see that this will affect more in our family than just me (instead of me just saying it) and I think it devastated her. She had a long talk with D (as did I) and obviously D went thru the range of emotions. D told her if she ever left us for another man, then she'd never talk to her again. Our D has always talked of friends parent's who've been thru this and the girls always seem to side with the betrayed spouse. Well, it is still the beginning of trying to piece it together, but I am doing my GAL and 180's, just trying to support W when she asks for it, But, she told D and I that A is very much over, so if the fog will clear, then is a chance we can work it out
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/08/12 02:38 PM
D is doing better. I think W is serious about her no contact with OM after she sent him via FB. She did apologize to me and said it was over and kissed me on the lips for the 1st time in over 2 weeks. I know not to trust anything she says and 1/2 I see right now and vacillate between hope and dispair daily, so we'll see. We do have a valentines dinner planned next week that has been set for over a month and she still wants to go, so I think I'll just go and let her talk to me and carry the conversation and I'm doing all I can to have no expectations of outcome of dinner. D actually brought it up that we should go out for Vday and W said we were.
We have a week carribean trip for the 2 of us which is already paid for next month that we're going on and other events every month following that are still planned, so life goes on in a strange way. Still doing my best not to pursue and just going along and letting her have all the space I can, but it's awkward at times when we spend so much time together alone. Sometimes I just want to grab her and give her a hug or kiss and tell her I love her (but have to remind myself that she knows that and not ready to tell me yet). If her fantasy fog will lift I think we could work at R, but I have to wait it out. Hard when I cannot fully trust her about OM, etc...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/10/12 01:05 AM
Still working on me and my 180's but since we're around each other so often, it's still hard keeping from telling her I love her or hugging, kissing, etc. Hard to act normal around kids to when my heart is torn this way. Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman. Especially want to tell his separated W everything I know. I don't know her, but know who she is. That's my tough part at times too, now as another site recommends going nuclear and telling everyone about A to expose and start the healing and get rid of her fog. So far only our D knows and I can't really talk to her about it, nor is it fair to her to get her into this deeper.
I just have to keep on focusing on me and my kids and wait for her to come around. She's noticing 180's (weight loss, no drinking, more time with kids, etc) so I still have hope for us and that she'll want to deal with this in counseling some day! Dinner next week should be interesting and God only knows about our week in the Carribean next month. FIL, MIL, SIL, BIL will be there too at the resort, so who knows what to expect on my end here...Keep on keeping on...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/10/12 03:18 PM
Bump for any advice...
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/10/12 09:19 PM
Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman.


I didn't read your whole thread so forgive me but I am confused.

Does she want to repair the M?

If so then she should understand your not trusting her because of her actions and be contrite about her A.

As far as trusting her I say trust but verify. Meaning if she is contrite she will be willing for some time to help you trust her again by being forthright and giving you assurance that she means what she says.

Remember though there will be a time of her mourning the loss of the OM.

I know it won't feel good to live with that but if you want your M then you will have to swallow some things.

BUT

What worries me most is your statement that she doesn't give a Sh!t about you.

Why do you think that?

What made her feel that way?

What are her complaints against you?

Keep yout children out of this. Period.

As far as exposure of the A there are different schools of thought.

To me it comes down to what kind of person your W is and what kind of man you are.

Is your W a taker? I mean are you the one always bending or sacrificing for the sake of the M?

Or

Is that you? Are you the taker. If its you then you probably don't know it's you because to me if you do that then you have an inability to see outside of your own wants/needs. A certain lack of empathy.

Somewhere in the middle is the healthy relationship but if you're here someone is behaving badly. Or both.

The first thing you have to know is you are part of the problem.

Why am asking this?

Because you don't control your W and if you have tried or are in the habit of controlling her by holding her emotionally hostage your efforts to expose her A will be met with hostility and a sense of entitlement. For her to make that choice(having an affair) in reaction to your treatment of her took a long time to make.

If you are the former, meaning you were the one being taken advantage of then it is time to maybe ask yourself:

"Would I treat someone the way I am being treated?"

Either way you can't control your W only YOU.

So ultimately the question is what do you hope to accomplish by blowing this whole mess up in front of the world?

Will it make you a better man to drag your W and OM out into the open?

What does it serve? Your anger? Your frustration? Your vanity?

Stop looking to your W for answers and you will find your own.

She had an A.

She is either willing to give it up and ask for forgiveness or not.

I submit to you that you will be a victim of her choice unless you look at this a different way.

Do not place your self worth in the hands of someone who does not deserve it. Who has not valued it. Who has not earned it.

If you do not value yourself more than that then it is time to ask yourself why?

Why when you look in the mirror do you not see someone you admire and aspire to be looking back you?

As long as she sees the same man she left behind, you are destined to be that man.

My advice is to start focusing on yourself.

Make the changes for you not for her.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/10/12 11:14 PM
Wisdom^^^
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/11/12 03:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes I feel like bailing out and finding someone who gives a *(!@ about me, but I love my family too much for that. Still wondering if she has ended EA and want to tell everyone what pond scum he is for still being married (I know, she is in that too) and continuing to chase a married woman.


I didn't read your whole thread so forgive me but I am confused.

Does she want to repair the M?

[/color]
Yes, at times, no at other times. She says she wants to be on her own, but realizes that it's not a possibility at this time due to our financial sit. She hasn't said she wants a D, just a S. I think she wanted to eat her cake until D found out about OM and she realized the hurt her A would have on the rest of our family.


BUT

What worries me most is your statement that she doesn't give a Sh!t about you.

Why do you think that?
[color:#FF0000]

Just the fact that there's hardly any physical contact now and she doesn't want to deal with any of our R issues at this time.

What made her feel that way?[/color]
Living with my drinking for 21 years

What are her complaints against you?
[color:#FF0000]

Right now, she just says she doesn't love me or want to be with me except for our kids sake. She wishes we never married 15 years ago, etc...She really doesn't want to talk about anything except telling me if I want her back, I have to let her go.




Is that you? Are you the taker. If its you then you probably don't know it's you because to me if you do that then you have an inability to see outside of your own wants/needs. A certain lack of empathy.
[/color]
You are spot on here, I have to admit I've sucked all the oxygen out of our R for a lot of the 22 years. I am working on me now for me, and hope I can salvage this, because I really do love her. I let her go for a few months 17 years ago and we still lived together, but lived as roommates like we do now for a while and she told everyone she was leaving me, but I changed for a while and she came back then we got married about a year later. This is why maybe she's waiting out to see if I am really making changes, because her primary LL is acts of service, so words are cheap to her, especially after I've not lived up to them in the past. The thing is, and this is my fault, after I'll quit drinking a while, we'll go out and she says, "i don't care if you drink," and I do, then it becomes a problem for me again. I cannot do that anymore for me, regardless because it's my issue, not hers.



Because you don't control your W and if you have tried or are in the habit of controlling her by holding her emotionally hostage your efforts to expose her A will be met with hostility and a sense of entitlement. For her to make that choice(having an affair) in reaction to your treatment of her took a long time to make.[color:#FF0000]

This is me to a T so maybe I shouldn't expose to the world. She promised me and D last week it was over with OM and I read her NC letter to him, so maybe I should lay low there for now.


Either way you can't control your W only YOU.
[/color]
true!

So ultimately the question is what do you hope to accomplish by blowing this whole mess up in front of the world?

Will it make you a better man to drag your W and OM out into the open?


If you do not value yourself more than that then it is time to ask yourself why?
[color:#FF0000]
Right now, I do suffer from low self worth issues and she has I need to "get a sense of self."

Why when you look in the mirror do you not see someone you admire and aspire to be looking back you?
[/color] sometimes, yes, sometimes no.

As long as she sees the same man she left behind, you are destined to be that man.
[color:#FF0000]

I'm not that man anymore, but it's a work in progress and I hope she realizes it before it's too late!

My advice is to start focusing on yourself.

Make the changes for you not for her.

Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/11/12 10:38 PM
jlove

you touched on a few things I think you might want to give some thought to.

in an unbalanced relationship, an unhealthy one, one person is unwilling or able to surrender fully to the relationship. They just don't or won't.

Only you know if your drinking is one of those things.

But it sounds to me like it is.

Have you ever considered going completely sober?

Getting help for that?

Would that be a 180 or a change that you might consider a step toward becoming a man you want to be?

The flip side to living with someone with drinking problem (I was the fixer to my W's drinking and substance abuse)is that the sober person ultimately becomes angry and resentful.

Is that where your W is?

Then next step is realizing she can't do anything about it and that means detaching from you.

So what is your M worth to you? It seems to me you know what needs to be done or at least part of it.

Do you have the will, the courage and the commitment to do it?

Maybe if she sees that guy take control she might be willing to join someone with such courage in the fight to save your M.

Your choice.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/11/12 11:43 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
jlove

you touched on a few things I think you might want to give some thought to.

in an unbalanced relationship, an unhealthy one, one person is unwilling or able to surrender fully to the relationship. They just don't or won't.

Only you know if your drinking is one of those things.

But it sounds to me like it is.

Have you ever considered going completely sober?

Getting help for that?

Would that be a 180 or a change that you might consider a step toward becoming a man you want to be?

The flip side to living with someone with drinking problem (I was the fixer to my W's drinking and substance abuse)is that the sober person ultimately becomes angry and resentful.

Is that where your W is?

Then next step is realizing she can't do anything about it and that means detaching from you.

So what is your M worth to you? It seems to me you know what needs to be done or at least part of it.

Do you have the will, the courage and the commitment to do it?

Maybe if she sees that guy take control she might be willing to join someone with such courage in the fight to save your M.

Your choice.


[color:#FF0000][/color] I have given up drinking since D day #1 3 months ago. I'm finally committed to staying sober and will go to AA if I feel like a drink, but I have turned into an exercise freak since this, so haven't even wanted a drink.
She says she believes my 180's are permanent, but cannot see the love coming back for me that way. She's torn because financially she cannot move out, and doesn't want to because of the kids, but yet doesn't want to be with me either. She swears up and down that OM is over and not many feelings left there anyway, it's just she should have left me 16 yrs ago before we got married.
She says she is trying every day to do the best she can and I believe her there.
I took what you told me yesterday to heart today Truegritter and I have been holding her emotions hostage for 22 yrs now and have to stop. I told her this today and she agreed.I guess I'm luck she stayed as long as she did. This is hard for me to deal with and I may have to let her go this time for real, and deal with the possibility it may be over for ever.
Today, I had a TOTAL MELTDOWN BACKSLIDE. Her sister is getting M this summer and W is the matron of honor and was showing her the dress and talking about their wedding and all the future family plans together and I started crying. THEN, we went to MIL for lunch and I tried to bail due to my emotions but couldn't get out of it. During lunch they were talking about wedding, plans and future events and how everyone should wait until after 30 to marry, etc (W was 25) and MIL never thought we should have and told W that she needed to be with other boys/men when she was 18-24 (we got together after she graduated HS) and I lost it at the dinner table. I got up and left the house for an hour. During that time, I told myself that I was the failure to my W and kids, and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me. I'm a really touchy, huggy, person, and my W told me a month ago that she has "cringed" for years when I touch her, so I may have gotten one hug and a few kisses from her in the last month. I'm in purgatory right now and I deserve it, but I have to get out. I put on my "game face" and went back in for my kids. Tough to do.
Anyway, when we got home, I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now. She said again it was over with OM, she loves me, just doesn't want to be married to me and wants space. I get that, it's not how I feel but I need to know that there is hope because I'm the only one of us that wants us to work out. She says she's trying day by day and that's the best she can do. Doesn't want counseling because she wants out of our relationship. still doesn't talk D, just S if she could. I love her and will wait and have hope that if we do retrouvaille, or counseling we may be able to save it. So, I'm still in purgatory as she can't leave, I can't live a fake marriage with her, and she doesn't want to see us try to make it work. I have nowhere else to go either, so we are stuck here both unhappy for different reasons. That's why I got so emotional today, because I feel like just getting it over with and moving on if she doesn't even want to try. What a mess I've caused, and I accept my part in it all.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 12:15 AM
Originally Posted By: jlove
and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.


How about we turn that statment around and say you respect the fact that she doesn't want to be with you right now.

You are not the victim here. Only if you choose to be.

It is not the fact that you failed. It is how you decide to recover from that failure.

So I see you walking out on the discussion because that stings for you. The complaints from your W and her family about you or how they thought you should not have gotten married sting.

WHY?

Originally Posted By: jlove
I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now.


She is right you are playing war. You are not getting and/or hearing what you want so you are thrwing a tantrum.

More of the same old jlove?

I have to go J more later....
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 12:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
and I have to let her go because of my past, and I have to respect myself enough to NOT be with someone who doesn't want to be with me.


How about we turn that statment around and say you respect the fact that she doesn't want to be with you right now.

You are not the victim here. Only if you choose to be.

It is not the fact that you failed. It is how you decide to recover from that failure.[/color] I know, I did this to myself and that is what's killing me right now. That and that when I finally "get it" it was too late for us. Maybe some other woman down the line will benefit, and of course my kids and myself will, but I'm not ready to quit on my marriage yet. It's the living in purgatory with no love in return that is eating away at me. I deserve it after all these years, but it still hurts and is harder than anything I've ever done. I do want to die sometimes and was in the process of killing myself before all of this sparked an interest in life again, so that and my improved physical health is a positive from this in an sick self-centered way. I guess I've been crying out for help, but too much of a wimp to actually ask for it.

So I see you walking out on the discussion because that stings for you. The complaints from your W and her family about you or how they thought you should not have gotten married sting.

WHY?
[color:#FF0000]
The MIL wasn't directly talking about us and W wasn't saying anything, though my W has told me over the years that she told her that advice back when she was 18 as her mother did the same thing, then left her husband a few years later to never remarry. No she's old and all alone in the world, struggling to make ends meet, but that's another story.

Originally Posted By: jlove
I told W she should leave and I couldn't fake this anymore and be with someone who no longer loves me or wants to be with me. She said she understood but I was playing emotional war again her and for many reasons she can't and didn't want to leave right now.


She is right you are playing war. You are not getting and/or hearing what you want so you are thrwing a tantrum.

More of the same old jlove?
[color:#FF0000][/color] Yes, this is the old me, but is it wrong for me to want love? I am impatient, and can wait but I'm missing the little signs from her along the way to tell me that the 180 is working and we have hope. I know DB can be done by one person, and there are no guarantees, I just feel like I've been busting A+_ for 3 months and have gotten nowhere. I thought we'd recovered until a month ago, when she told me she couldn't live here anymore with me and had been faking everything for years. Now, I have to fake it until we maybe make it. I get it and it's worth waiting for, just don't know how long I can do it. A week vacation with all inlaws next month with no kids is going to be brutal. i really don't even want to go, but it's paid for and I think maybe we can bond more in that week without the kids around 24/7. Plus I feel like if I don't go, OM will happily take my place even though none of them know about it and she says that was a mistake, is sorry, and I can trust her that it's over with him. She understands my roller coaster rides and I really think she's more than I deserve right now, so I'm a mess and really see why she'd want out. That's hard to deal with with all the other baggage hanging around. I need to find ME, and I get that. Thanks for your help, TG!!!

I have to go J more later....
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 02:53 PM
Originally Posted By: Jlove
That and that when I finally "get it" it was too late for us.


Who says?

Can you also give me the winning numbers for the powerball?

Originally Posted By: Jlove
but I'm not ready to quit on my marriage yet.


Ok then. When will you be ready? When she gives you this:

Originally Posted By: jlove
It's the living in purgatory with no love in return that is eating away at me.


?????

Originally Posted By: jlove
I deserve it after all these years, but it still hurts and is harder than anything I've ever done.


Self indulgent self pity? An excuse for not trying?

Originally Posted By: jlove
I do want to die sometimes and was in the process of killing myself before all of this sparked an interest in life again, so that and my improved physical health is a positive from this in an sick self-centered way.


J Don't mess around with this ok? You have made some mistakes and this will be a hard road for a while so please PLEASE keep regular meetings with your dr. and any meds he/she has prescribed.

I have heard that the grief associated with being an LBS is worse than having both your parents die at once.

I believe cause I lived it.

It is hard. I am trying to get you to stop looking at your W and understand that success here depends on you if you choose to see this differently.

Differently?

Means if you don't want your M to be over than decide that it is up to you when it is over. She has the right to divorce you so that is not what I am talking about.

I am saying that you can stand up for what you believe. You can take your lumps. And move on and show your W and the world that you are someone with the courage to do that.

But that is up to you. I can only say that when I came here I was whiny, pissed off mess.

My decision to stand in the face of all the adversity in my M made me someone I am proud to see in the mirror.

You can find that in yourself. I believe everyone can.

It only takes YOU and only you deciding to do it.

My thread is over in MLC and it is long and it is all there if you want to know. Let me know if you can't find it.

Originally Posted By: jlove
but is it wrong for me to want love?


What does that mean for you? I mean when you said your vows you said you would love and honor her all the days of your life right?

Did that mean ONLY when she is showing you she loves you?

Did that mean ONLY when she is calm and peaceful and not confused about life?

Did that mean ONLY when she is not scared?

How would you want to be loved? Are you giving that to her? Have you in the past?

J what is success for you here?

Me?

It was living what i believed and living my core values not for if/and/or/but of what my W chose, chooses, or might chose

BUT

In spite of it.

And along the way you find YOUR own truth. And the answers you seek.

Originally Posted By: jlove
I need to find ME, and I get that.


I think you have already taken some steps toward that. Your dr., your physical excercise.

The mirror work is the toughest because that is where you can make excuses and beat yourself up.

"I would be a better man BUT _______"

Kill the BUTs in your life. There is no one to blame but YOU for you not succeeding.

Not your W, not your MIL or your cousins by the dozens.

YOU.
Posted By: angel61 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 03:10 PM
It took time to get to where you are now - as you said, 21 years of drinking.... it will take time to reverse it. I have read somewher that it takes at least a month for every year that you were together - I think thats true, it took 16 years for my sitch to turn around from bomb day, and we have been together for that long.....

Work on yourself. Make yourself the an your W will fall in love with again. The OM is just a band aid, a symptom of what was wrong in our M. I think your W is a good woman, and she knows what is right and wrong, but is confused right now. But sometimes, this kinds of situations have a way of happening for a reason, and maybe in your case, it is to make you realize that you have to stop your drinking.

Just because your W doesn't feel love for you now doesn't mean to say that she will be like that forever. If you change and be the man she once loved, it could come back. And I have the feeling in your case it is very possible.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 05:16 PM
[/color]
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: Jlove
That and that when I finally "get it" it was too late for us.


Who says?
[color:#FF0000] me at times, it seems. I'm mindreading I know

Can you also give me the winning numbers for the powerball?

Originally Posted By: Jlove
but I'm not ready to quit on my marriage yet.


Ok then. When will you be ready? When she gives you this:

Originally Posted By: jlove
It's the living in purgatory with no love in return that is eating away at me.

[/color] this is where we are now. I vacillate between not being able to take it anymore and getting better.

?????

Originally Posted By: jlove
I deserve it after all these years, but it still hurts and is harder than anything I've ever done.


Self indulgent self pity? An excuse for not trying?
[color:#FF0000]

Yes, I know it doesn't serve me. I'm trying as hard as I can, but I am the ONLY one of us trying,

Originally Posted By: jlove
I do want to die sometimes and was in the process of killing myself before all of this sparked an interest in life again, so that and my improved physical health is a positive from this in an sick self-centered way.


J Don't mess around with this ok? You have made some mistakes and this will be a hard road for a while so please PLEASE keep regular meetings with your dr. and any meds he/she has prescribed.

I have heard that the grief associated with being an LBS is worse than having both your parents die at once.

I believe cause I lived it.

It is hard. I am trying to get you to stop looking at your W and understand that success here depends on you if you choose to see this differently.

Differently?

Means if you don't want your M to be over than decide that it is up to you when it is over. She has the right to divorce you so that is not what I am talking about.

I am saying that you can stand up for what you believe. You can take your lumps. And move on and show your W and the world that you are someone with the courage to do that.

But that is up to you. I can only say that when I came here I was whiny, pissed off mess.

My decision to stand in the face of all the adversity in my M made me someone I am proud to see in the mirror.

You can find that in yourself. I believe everyone can.

It only takes YOU and only you deciding to do it.

My thread is over in MLC and it is long and it is all there if you want to know. Let me know if you can't find it.

Originally Posted By: jlove
but is it wrong for me to want love?


What does that mean for you? I mean when you said your vows you said you would love and honor her all the days of your life right?

Did that mean ONLY when she is showing you she loves you?

Did that mean ONLY when she is calm and peaceful and not confused about life?

Did that mean ONLY when she is not scared?

How would you want to be loved? Are you giving that to her? Have you in the past?
[color:#CC0000][/color] I want to be held and told everything's going to be ok. I want the love like she gives our kids, unconditional and I have to give that to her to. What you said here is powerful and correct. i did vow to love her regardless of her, and I need to go there now, and pray that she'll follow. It's true, for better or worse.

J what is success for you here?

Me?

It was living what i believed and living my core values not for if/and/or/but of what my W chose, chooses, or might chose

BUT

In spite of it.

And along the way you find YOUR own truth. And the answers you seek.

Originally Posted By: jlove
I need to find ME, and I get that.


I think you have already taken some steps toward that. Your dr., your physical excercise.

The mirror work is the toughest because that is where you can make excuses and beat yourself up.

"I would be a better man BUT _______"

Kill the BUTs in your life. There is no one to blame but YOU for you not succeeding.

Not your W, not your MIL or your cousins by the dozens.

YOU.

Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 05:21 PM
Originally Posted By: angel61
It took time to get to where you are now - as you said, 21 years of drinking.... it will take time to reverse it. I have read somewher that it takes at least a month for every year that you were together - I think thats true, it took 16 years for my sitch to turn around from bomb day, and we have been together for that long.....

Work on yourself. Make yourself the an your W will fall in love with again. The OM is just a band aid, a symptom of what was wrong in our M. I think your W is a good woman, and she knows what is right and wrong, but is confused right now. But sometimes, this kinds of situations have a way of happening for a reason, and maybe in your case, it is to make you realize that you have to stop your drinking.

Just because your W doesn't feel love for you now doesn't mean to say that she will be like that forever. If you change and be the man she once loved, it could come back. And I have the feeling in your case it is very possible.




[color:#FF0000][/color] Thank you A61, I needed this and you are my Angel today. I need hope at the end of this tunnel. I need possibility, I think it'll work, but she doesn't even want to consider "us" at this time beyond co-parents/roommates/whatever. She has been accountable and promised to tell me immediately if contact w OM, so I see tiny improvements, but I will probably have to lose her to get her back, and that thought scares me for me and my kids. My D told me last night she wants to go live elsewhere till W and I resolve this, but W doesn't know that. i don't want to tell her because I think it'll make her freak and say it's all her fault and she has to leave. I told D we won't discuss this anymore and just to pray that we'll work it out. She saw me reading DR and i had to tell her about it and I was committed to doing all I can to save M. Sad for all of us.
Posted By: angel61 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/12/12 06:02 PM
Jlove, I've been through this and back! My H had a year long EA with a colleague from another country, he denied having an A because he said "nothing happened", but the emotional component, the texting, FB and calls really hurt. But I was able to get through all that, forgive, love unconditionally (still learning !) but now we are in piecing.

I just saw your post about what happened to your D, and I know the feeling, what my H did also affected our D so badly she got depressed, even cut herself. But it did wake up my H to how it affected not only me but the whole family.

Anything is possible! It is not that easy to dissolve a marriage, or destroy a family. My H was so "done" and initially we even talked about just staying together till D was done with middle school. It did take time, but ultimately my H saw that love is not a feeling but a decision. This was with the help of Retrouvaille.

Read the threads of people here. There are many different scenarios, but what you will find out is that you are not alone. Learn from others mistakes, and apply it to your sitch. Keep posting - and especially if you have a question, want to do something and are not sure. And also, do not make sudden impulsive moves or decisions.

Hang in there!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/13/12 02:44 PM
From Angel, I am starting to realize that I choose to love W and that's my choice and hers now what to do with my love. In the end, I guess that will work out. that was my wedding vow and I have to uphold it here. maybe she'll read that as my act of service to her (her primary LL) and realize that we can try to work it out. She told D she just needs to think for a month or two, so I have to give that space, hard as it is for me being around her all the time, until she's ready. This is my challenge. I'm doing a GAL today buying myself some nice weights to work out with I've wanted for a long time and just told her, didn't ask, and she smiled and said she saw that email. I just have to keep my insecure demons at bay. She's gotten better at telling me where she is and with who, to relieve my OM anxiety, so i am getting little crumbs here and there I have to remind myself. LAter....
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/13/12 03:54 PM
Hey TG -I have got to say that your post here is in my top five all-time favorites. You nailed it my friend!! cool

Jlove, this is good stuff - read it and read it again, again, again...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/13/12 07:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky
Hey TG -I have got to say that your post here is in my top five all-time favorites. You nailed it my friend!! cool

Jlove, this is good stuff - read it and read it again, again, again...


yes, i've been taking all of this advice to heart. Thanks to all and I welcome input. I'm taking more than giving, right now, but i'll pay it back when I get some more gas in my tank! J
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/14/12 02:37 PM
today is kinds tough. Just finished workout w W. This is about the most I'll see her till dinner tonight. I left a card out for her early this am and she had one for me. It was sweet, but kinda strange feeling. It wasn't a H card, but said that I was special in her life and made her life special (could be worse I know). I know I cannot read much into it, but it's tough. Feel like today maybe a bid trigger day (ya think???) Anyway, we have a really nice new place we're eating at tonite and it's a surprise to her alothough she's mentioned it for a while. Just have to keep off all R talk, gonna need my strength. I have a wristband to pull when I go off the deep end to focus. I'll survive, I just want my W back. Hard to be with her so often and not hardly touch, etc. she did kiss me on the lips last night for the 1st time in weeks, so who knows. I have to quit trying to read her mind. focus on me and kids. Later...J
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/14/12 03:22 PM
Wow, I cannot read too much into this, I know, but when W she came up to me and gave me a big kiss and hug and thanked me for the flowers and said that was a very sweet surprise. She then told me she was sorry she had to work today. I know, I cannot mind read hear, but I have been focusing on her LL of Acts of Service and am trying as my 180 to fulfill them. I suppose taking Angels advice a while ago and learning to love her unconditionally and without demands would be an act of service too. I just need to make it thru today without a backslide!
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/15/12 12:44 PM
Originally Posted By: jlove
Wow, I cannot read too much into this


I am not saying this to burst your bubble but you can't read ANYTHING into this.

You will burn yourself out if you let yourself do it.

You will see little glimpses of her coming and going closer and further away from you.

The trick is not to scare the squirrel who is coming closer to take a the nut from your hand.

No sudden moves.

See what is working and keep doing it.

No begging or checking her temperature by asking questions about how she is feeling.

Originally Posted By: jlove
so who knows. I have to quit trying to read her mind. focus on me and kids.


You gave yourself good advice here J. Follow it.

BTW recognize your acts of service at this point MAY be pursuing behavior.

True it is something you haven't done and is a 180 but just be mindful of her reaction to it.

Really 180's to me are about you, not about focusing on the other person. Changes for you.

Else they won't stick.

Also focusing on your W too much can take you off task which is reaching goals for the better man you want to be.

Which are what for you? Goals for you? That are measured by your actions not your W's reaction?
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/15/12 03:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
Wow, I cannot read too much into this


I am not saying this to burst your bubble but you can't read ANYTHING into this.

You will burn yourself out if you let yourself do it.

You will see little glimpses of her coming and going closer and further away from you.

The trick is not to scare the squirrel who is coming closer to take a the nut from your hand.

No sudden moves.

See what is working and keep doing it.

No begging or checking her temperature by asking questions about how she is feeling.

Originally Posted By: jlove
so who knows. I have to quit trying to read her mind. focus on me and kids.


You gave yourself good advice here J. Follow it.

BTW recognize your acts of service at this point MAY be pursuing behavior.

True it is something you haven't done and is a 180 but just be mindful of her reaction to it.

Really 180's to me are about you, not about focusing on the other person. Changes for you.

Else they won't stick.

Also focusing on your W too much can take you off task which is reaching goals for the better man you want to be.

Which are what for you? Goals for you? That are measured by your actions not your W's reaction?


I am letting her come to me at this point and trying not to initiate anything. We still share so much together and there are still so many future plans for us as a family it's hard not to ever mention things though. I.E. out trip to Carribean together next month.

my goals are to remain sober and become a lean mean exercise machine and compete in a triathlon within the next year. Also, to be there for my 3 kids when they need me and support them. to be a more attentive father, not the one who was checked out for the last 14 years of parenthood at times. to learn to love unconditionally and live it, and let all the chips fall where they may. I think W is realizing that if she doesn't come back, someone else will want the new me (just my sense and hope, but either way that is a positive for ME). People are constantly telling me how good I look now and say they hardly recognize me. Even my priest said I was an inspiration to exercise more, so that makes me feel good, even if it's validation thru others. I need to work on self-validation in the process.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 01:46 PM
Last couple of days uneventful. We had a good V-Day dinner, no R talk, but talked about our future jobs, etc. seems like W is in plans for our future as a family, but still distant at times. Then this am she started talking about FB IPO and stuff and I had to blurt out "I hate FB, it causes divorces." She said she couldn't believe I said it so loud, especially with D upstairs listening. I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming. Especially after I caught her and OM FB messaging 3 weeks ago even though they aren't friends anymore. I do hate FB, but need to keep some thoughts to myself. W said she wasn't mad at me, but it's still a backslide. Arghh. I need to focus on me, just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb. So hard living together as a family, but acting as if nothing's wrong with us. Seems fake and makes it hard. Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids? They need to know better. especially don't want D to grow up thinking affairs are an ok way to end a M. Wow, what a screwed up situation. I guess at least W is here to see my 180's up close. Later, J
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 03:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming.


There is a reason but and butt sound exactly the same.

BUT is an excuse you give yourself.

as in

I would be the man I want to be BUT

Originally Posted By: jlove
just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb.


so I can't.

This is about YOU not her.

What if she never throws you a crumb? What if she never wants you back?

Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids?


Tell them what happened. That you would have tried to save your M BUT their mom made you choose to move on.

What do YOU want J?
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 05:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I know, it was dumb, but sometimes the hurt is overwhelming.


There is a reason but and butt sound exactly the same.

BUT is an excuse you give yourself.

as in

I would be the man I want to be BUT[/color]
Yes, I know. I need your sage advice, Truegrit. I'm becoming the man I want to be. I've decided to start a career I've always wanted in IT and am going to school soon to get certified. My W supports this decision, but it's for ME (and my kids) to do what I want in life.

Originally Posted By: jlove
just wish at times WAW would throw me a crumb.


so I can't.

This is about YOU not her.

What if she never throws you a crumb? What if she never wants you back?[color:#FF0000]

Well, I'm prepared to give this my all and wait out her indecision, but when I'm in the place to move on (after school and start of new job) if she's not on board then I leave. That's a ways out though, so the meantime will be tough slogging. I've heard for a month of every year together, so maybe 22 months is a fair timeline. Also, I am a VERY high sexual man, so waiting until I'm 45 to have sex again is something I think about all the time. Have to be honest with myself there, although I refuse to break my marriage vows, just never though of myself as celibate.

Originally Posted By: jlove
Sometimes feels like maybe I should move on, but then, what would that tell my kids?


Tell them what happened. That you would have tried to save your M BUT their mom made you choose to move on.
[/color]
yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...

What do YOU want J?

[color:#FF0000]
I want someone who loves me for me and wants to be with me and share their life in every aspect. I want someone who loves my children unconditionally too, so if it doesn't work out w/ W, that will be my impediment of starting with someone new if it comes to that. Of course, that will be her issue to, but that wouldn't be my problem then. I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered. I want to travel and have fun again by competing in triathlons around the country/world. I want to live for me for a change and show my kids what that means. I want my kids to respect me when they grow up as a role model (and a positive one at that!) I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now. It's also a strain on our kids as neither of us is focused enough on them (I know I can only worry about me and I'm trying). I want to try to save this, even though I know I am only responsible for me. I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now. Thanks TrueGrit!
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: J
yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...


I guess you missed my sarcasm in pointing out the fact you are letting your W make your choices for you.

DO you want to tell your children that?

DO you want to tell yourself that?

Does it let you off the hook for making a harder choice?

So you can blame her for the demise of your M?

Originally Posted By: J
I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered.


How about loving her that way?

This is the sad times right now J. So how would you want to be loved if you were having a difficult time? If you were confused? If you were scared?

If you felt so scared you didn't know how to show your W or want to show your W that you care.

So much that you couldn't even throw her a crumb?

If you had stumbled and needed forgiveness?

Originally Posted By: jlove
I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now.


Then don't feel that way. It is YOUR choice how to react to her. I am not talking about feelings. Those spontaneous impulses that react to stimulus. We can't control feelings and emotions by their very definition.

To quote a poster who used to be here named Coach:

"The prisons are full of people who acted on their feelings and emotions."

A stronger man controls his.

A man with courage and integrity chooses not based on what someone is doing or not doing to him or for him.

He chooses from his values. from his core of who he chooses to be.

So which would you rather your children be witness to?

this

Originally Posted By: J
I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now.


Why is it NOT in your best interest right now?

This is the ultimate opportunity for you. You're best interest is staring you in the face.

How is making a choice to act and choose from your own values not in YOUR best interest?

If you leave this up to her you'll be the victim of HER choice.

What is YOUR choice. No buts. No leaving it to timelines or lack of sex, or a day on the calendar:

And especially not to your confused beloved W.

YOU?

WHAT DO YOU WANT J?
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 08:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: J
yes, I'll have to cross that bridge if I get to it...


I guess you missed my sarcasm in pointing out the fact you are letting your W make your choices for you.

DO you want to tell your children that?

No. I truly want to try to work it out with her. When/IF I decide to quit, I'll deal with that. right now, I want to work it out, just have thoughts about down the line.

DO you want to tell yourself that?
No, if I leave it'll be my choice at the end of the day.

Does it let you off the hook for making a harder choice?
No, no matter what, I'm 50% here, so i cannot play a victim.

So you can blame her for the demise of your M?
No, if I'm honest it's 50/50 whatever happens to us.

Originally Posted By: J
I want someone to hold and share both fun times and sad. I want someone I can trust again after having my trust in W shattered.


How about loving her that way?
She doesn't want that from me now. I'd love to, but my form of love has to be giving her space unconditionally. Because of my primary LL it's hard as hell! I'll be in that space someday, I believe though.

This is the sad times right now J. So how would you want to be loved if you were having a difficult time? If you were confused? If you were scared?

Unconditional love/ \support would be what I'd want and time to figure it out, which I guess is what's she's asking for from me now. Space.

If you felt so scared you didn't know how to show your W or want to show your W that you care.

I'd want to hold her and just hold her. Don't get the feeling she's there (holding/comfort from me) yet though.

So much that you couldn't even throw her a crumb?

i'd pray for strength.

If you had stumbled and needed forgiveness?

I'd try to show that I was worthy of it though my actions.



Originally Posted By: jlove
I want not to feel this constant pain and anguish that my WAW is causing me right now due to her being "done" with us right now.


Then don't feel that way. It is YOUR choice how to react to her. I am not talking about feelings. Those spontaneous impulses that react to stimulus. We can't control feelings and emotions by their very definition.

To quote a poster who used to be here named Coach:

"The prisons are full of people who acted on their feelings and emotions."

A stronger man controls his.

A man with courage and integrity chooses not based on what someone is doing or not doing to him or for him.

He chooses from his values. from his core of who he chooses to be.

This, my friend is what I pray and hope I can do and be.

So which would you rather your children be witness to?

this

Originally Posted By: J
I want to stick it out, even if it isn't in my best interest right now. that's enough for now.


Why is it NOT in your best interest right now?

It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.

This is the ultimate opportunity for you. You're best interest is staring you in the face.

How is making a choice to act and choose from your own values not in YOUR best interest?

If you leave this up to her you'll be the victim of HER choice.

What is YOUR choice. No buts. No leaving it to timelines or lack of sex, or a day on the calendar:

And especially not to your confused beloved W.

YOU?

WHAT DO YOU WANT J?

Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 09:13 PM
Originally Posted By: jlove
It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.


You may not get any love you can measure for long time or ever.

You're getting there J.

I might borrow your love measurement gauge so I can re-calibrate it.

You are measuring love by what your W gives back to you?

Is there another way maybe to look at it?

Maybe not even to try to measure it or value it?

How would you begin to measure it anyway?

Time?

Words?

Money?

Her responding to you?

________ Fill in the blank?

Your own LL maybe?

You talk about unconditional then you use the word measure?

How do those two concepts mesh together for you?
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/17/12 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: jlove
It's in my best interest. I'm just not getting any love in return I can measure at this time, but it takes me back to my unconditional love I must give at this time, eh? Because that is the man I want to be.


You may not get any love you can measure for long time or ever.

You're getting there J.

I might borrow your love measurement gauge so I can re-calibrate it.
Sure, I'll loan it to you anytime.

You are measuring love by what your W gives back to you?

What I perceive as her love for me as in the past behavior.

Is there another way maybe to look at it?
The fact that she is still here? that's what she says is proof she's trying her best right now. maybe if I give her the love she needs, I won't have to worry about measuring her return love?

Maybe not even to try to measure it or value it?
Yes, but if I go there, isn't it all a one way street. Then maybe we reversed our R. I'm the giver and she's the taker now? Didn't work too well with roles reversed.

How would you begin to measure it anyway?
More words of encouragement and physical bonding (hugging, kissing, etc.)

Time?
Time with me, which we send a good bit now, but not talking about us or R.

Words?
words are important as one of my LL.

Money?
No, don't want that from her.

Her responding to you?
Holding me, kissing me, hugging me, cuddling with me, acting like she's excited and happy to be with me.

________ Fill in the blank?

Your own LL maybe?

Yes, Words of Affirmation and Physical Touch

You talk about unconditional then you use the word measure?

How do those two concepts mesh together for you?


They don't really. I cannot love unconditionally then have conditions can I? I want to love her unconditionally but am not there yet obviously. If I were, I wouldn't ask for anything in return.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/18/12 09:41 PM
W just left for work and knows I have anxiety attacks when she works Sat nights as we've had lots of EA issues with OM hanging out there Saturday nights. She told before she left me her planned time to leave and what to expect and that she wasn't expecting OM tonight (she told me and D that's over and I think there's been no contact for 2 weeks). Said she may stay for a drink to unwind, but that's it and did I think that was reasonable. This was all unprompted by me, so I just thanked her for thinking of my feelings and checking in. I didn't approve or complain, just told her thanks for letting me know. I can't read anything into this, I know, but at least she's thinking about it and seems like she's trying to work with me there. She's been texting me when she stays asking me if I mind, but I just tell her thanks for letting me know. Oh well, at least I don't feel like she's acting out at me in spite anymore. Progress on my part of letting her go.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/19/12 06:04 AM
Originally Posted By: J
did I think that was reasonable.


Well that was nice. really.

Just keep your cool like we have been telling you.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/19/12 02:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: J
did I think that was reasonable.


Well that was nice. really.

Just keep your cool like we have been telling you.


TG, I never know if it;s your sarcasm or not w/ me. I worked for 6 hours last night cleaning out home office out and she told me this morning, "wow, it looks great" She is noticing these Acts of Service.
I'm working on me harder than anything I've done before so I'll come out of this on top whatever happens!
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/19/12 04:30 PM
I was being serious. It was nice that she is noticing
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/19/12 05:22 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
I was being serious. It was nice that she is noticing


Thought so, thanks again for all your sage advice. Somehow, although I have my moments, it gets a little better each day.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/19/12 10:17 PM
Been doing early spring cleaning all weekend and after Church today I dove right in. I've been throwing a ton of old stuff out and took out lots of trash a vacuumed a ton too. I was wrapping up and washing my hands and realized my wedding band fell off!! I got that put in my stomach like oh no, this cannot be a good sign thinking I'd have to search thru tons of trash bags, etc. I reached into my pockets by chance 1st and sure enough there it was in one of my pockets. I for sure didn't take it off and put it there! I've lost so much weight like all of us, it slips off at times. I guess providence is on my side here.
I've been thinking lately that God will not let my family go and wants to see us together. My W is very religious too, and I know she is praying often, I just have to keep telling myself that she's battling her own issues too here and in her heart of hearts doesn't want to give up either. I just have to be the rock in our R right now to see us thru, I think. I know she's been the rock before in our family, so I guess turnabout is fair play.
Posted By: Lotus Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/20/12 08:04 AM
Put that ring in a safe place until you can get it sized to fit. I am traveling and checking in on my phone so I didnt read your whole thread. It sounds to me like you might be able to get her to agree to go to Retrouvaille with you. They work wonders in just a weekend. Look it up online and check for weekend dates near you. Be sure to read about the 4 stages of love.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/20/12 12:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Lotus
Put that ring in a safe place until you can get it sized to fit. I am traveling and checking in on my phone so I didnt read your whole thread. It sounds to me like you might be able to get her to agree to go to Retrouvaille with you. They work wonders in just a weekend. Look it up online and check for weekend dates near you. Be sure to read about the 4 stages of love.


there's one in April. we've talked about it a little, but she has said she needs a little time before she can commit to Retrouvaille. i don't bring it up or counseling anymore. She told D14 who told her to go that she's going though.
Posted By: Lotus Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/21/12 07:25 AM
That sounds good. It's good to get the registration in early as you know there are a lot of couples who need help. No matter what happens at Retrovaille, it will help you communicate with each other. Which is a skill you will need for the rest of your lives since you share the same children. Retrouvaille saved my marriage. And at least half of the couples who attended when we did. It improved our lives and our children's lives.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/21/12 01:02 PM
Yes, I know but I don't want to pressure her and there's no point in me registering before she is ready to commit to it. She has been a lot warmer towards me lately so she may be starting to move a little, but I don't want to do anything at this point to chase her away. It's hard, but I know I have to be the strong one for me and my family right now. I'd go ahead and register us, but I know she'd think I was pushing her and slide back some...
Posted By: labug Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/21/12 01:45 PM
Good plan jlove, let her make decisions for her.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/21/12 07:23 PM
Originally Posted By: labug
Good plan jlove, let her make decisions for her.


That's my plan and I'm sticking to it, hardest thing I've ever done! Hope it works!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/21/12 10:43 PM
So the W and I are driving somewhere today and she starts talking about vacation we're taking next month and says "WE'RE" going again next year? today she's talking about all of these future plans for US (family too) and I just listen and agree with most. Now things have been warmer lately, but we still haven't talked about R our Retrouvaille or been too close, just warmer and she's considering my feelings about things. I don't want to chase, etc, but it leaves me in a state of confusion to say the least!!! I know W is also dealing with WAW issues and maybe this is her way?
The Vets here have been giving me great advice (Angel61, Sandi2, Truegritter, et al. thank you!) and I'm trying my best not to blow this. Hard to NOT talk about things when so much is planned and discussed and everything else seems on hold.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/23/12 12:40 AM
At 1st Bomb, I begged, pleaded, threatened, cried, etc and I thought it worked and brought W back. She lived a fake lie with me for about 2 months pretending all was well.
After "I can't take it anymore, you make me cringe speech," I got DB and DR and started my 180's and giving her space. Since then, we have had some coldness issues, but little physical contact and me not chasing seems to be working. I'm focusing on myself and my future with family, and now W is starting to bring up all these events in the future and OUR future together. I often wonder if she is just still faking it till she makes it, or sincere, but a lot of what she's doing she doesn't have to (checking in with me, etc.) and I don't ask, so it is foreign to me. Also, not having told her I love her in over a month is weird or holding her much. I really wish she'd bring up registering for Retrouvaille as she hasn't forgotten about it, but we haven't discussed it and I'm not going there. We have all these other plans around that date filling up, and I think it'd benefit us, but I have to be patient!
Posted By: MrBond Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/23/12 12:54 AM
"I begged, pleaded, threatened, cried, etc and I thought it worked and brought W back. She lived a fake lie with me for about 2 months pretending all was well. "

You know she could very well have been trying and it was real. But she either felt guilty or smothered by you and had to leave again.

You don't need to be patient but compassionate as well. Try and see things from her POV.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/23/12 01:02 AM
Originally Posted By: MrBond
"I begged, pleaded, threatened, cried, etc and I thought it worked and brought W back. She lived a fake lie with me for about 2 months pretending all was well. "

You know she could very well have been trying and it was real. But she either felt guilty or smothered by you and had to leave again.

You don't need to be patient but compassionate as well. Try and see things from her POV.


Yes, I agree she could have been for real too. She kept telling me I was smothering her during that period. Always bringing up EA, crying, huggy, needy, tm all the time, etc. Classic desperado. I'm sure it helped drive her away (even though she still lives and sleeps in same bed, but it's still not here with me).
Yes, I am trying to see everything from her point of view and am doing ok, but there are times that I want to lose it. have to keep my cool.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/24/12 02:15 PM
Things seem to be getting better. Tough night last night as she came home wasted, almost falling down drunk. I just asked her how her night was and said she should have called me for a ride. She said she was fine but "things are falling in my way tonight."
Anyway, I think she was just hanging out after work and had two too many, but it's her life to live. We just cannot afford a DUI or her to wreck and hurt someone or herself.
I keep praying for God to make me the rock in the family right now, and for him to just lift her up to see what she's doing to herself and those that love her. Ironic that me, the alcoholic in the family may end up needing to go to Al-Anon to deal with my W. I keep wondering if there may also be MLC with her at play here too.
Day by day, I get stronger and more firm in what I want to be/do. In the end, I think she may be begging/chasing me to reconcile. I guess things could be worse. Later, J
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/25/12 01:34 PM
today is youngest S B-day. Busy day today with our family and that is a good thing. We have so many events as a couple/family planned the next few months, it's almost like a dream/nightmare that we're even going through all of this at times. We seem to act like NOTHING is going on with our R most of the time, except much physical closeness. A kiss here and there, but that's about it for the last month or so. It's strange and often has me wondering if we'll ever get romance back in the R.
I'm not pursuing, I really think she'll come around soon. I just want to deal with all the R issues in Retrouvaille or counseling before we really get started back sexually. This will be tough for me to deal with as my drive is high and it's been so long now. Something for me to consider the pros/cons.
i'm starting to think about a lifetime, rather than just the next short while, etc. so I need to keep all of that in perspective here too.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/27/12 02:33 PM
We had a peaceful weekend. Still strange not dealing with any R issues and being together all the time planning for future together. Guess it could be worse, but my personality is to deal with the tough stuff and get it over with, and W would rather bury issues. She does seem to be thinking about how I feel though, so that is an improvement.
Sermon at church yesterday was on temptation and how the devil will always be out there tempting us, but never anything we cannot cope with and how we can avoid tempting situations. Spoke to me deeply, like staying out of bars and liquor stores so I don't drink. Kept wondering what W was thinking (know I cannot mind read) about her temptations, but I couldn't even look her way during sermon...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/27/12 09:41 PM
Talked about Retrouvaille today. She asked me if I would rather do that or the Dr. Stanley DVD/CD series. I would rather do Retrouvaille, but WE need something. I told her I'd do what she wants. Living in limbo land is tough.
She said she'd think about it, but just wants to do one thing "and not be in therapy forever?" It's a step in the right direction, for sure, but this isn't going to be easy or short I'm sure. I told her Retrouvaille is forward thinking, and she told me she has a hard time getting her head around the future or thinking about it. She told me right now it's still "day to day" and she doesn't know what she wants to do, but doesn't want to hurt me. I told her I understood that and I knew, because she is a good person and left it at that...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/28/12 02:02 AM
I feel like I'm being tested to see what my breaking point is. Both by my W and myself at times. How long can I take this? I'm not patient at all and it's only 3 months. I know with God, I can do longer, and this is the man I want my kids to see at the end of all this, regardless how it turns out. it is like a slow band-aid pull off over and over. I miss an idea of my wife and wonder if I miss a wife that really never was there, or never will be that wife. Oh, I got a feeling this will all end with ME, just hope I can act with patience, grace and compassion.
I'm better at setting boundaries with W and she listens now, but our relationship is just plain strange. if I had any extra $ I need to take a long trip by myself to sort out myself. Me being the primary childcarer for the last 3 years hasn't given me enough time for me. Raising 3 kids almost on my own has been rewarding in many ways though, and they know me better than her now and often come to dad with problems, that's rewarding and is priceless!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/28/12 02:44 PM
major backslide last night and this morning. She came home early from work for her and it still seemed late to me and I asked her to just go ahead and leave. She has been warm at times and ice at times, and I'm having a tough time dealing with it. This morning after the kids went to school, I snapped and started yelling that I cannot take the constant pain and she needed to just go on and leave if she wanted to, or stay and work on it, but decide and move on either way. It took years to get here, I know, and it'll take a long time to resolve IF we do.
Ended up making her mad of course, and she really has no place to go, and we'd lose all we have if she did, so it's a moot point right now in many ways. I just need to see movement that I can measure, I guess, and that's what I told her after I calmed down. She said she's too angry with me now to respond, but she's still here because it's the "right thing to do even if she's no longer in love with me."
God grant me the strength to deal with this, as I really don't think I want to go on much longer in this R. I'm quickly falling out of love with her and loving only an idea of her and doing this only for my kids sake at this point. I almost wish she'd leave so I could go on with my life and find someone else who wants to be with me. She's not worth all of this misery I let her put me in. She wants to hang out in the bar scene with alcoholics all hours of the night at 40 years old, while I take care of the kids. Not going to do this much longer. I know I'm not supposed to give ultimatums, BUT I do need to protect myself and my kids. I'm starting to realize that I'M better than that and I don't want that life. It's passive/aggressive behavior on my part I realize, but up till now, it's been her that wants the marriage to end. She may get what she wants after all.
I just left it at setting my boundaries of no secrets, affairs, etc. and if that couldn't happen, then let's go on and tell the family and D. She agreed to that and said she'd get back to me on everything once she got over her anger.
Now I feel bad about my actions in one part, but respect myself for standing up for myself and feel good about being able to let her go. Almost cathartic. I really am starting to detach and see how maybe it wasn't just me that borked this R. For the 1st time in 3 months I feel ok with whatever happens and know that I'll survive and be better for it. Just need to step up for my kids as they're suffering because of OUR R issues here. That [censored].
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/28/12 07:12 PM
Well my GAL is coming thru as I got the grants I need to go back to school FOR ME to do what I want to do. Had a great workout after I got the news. I called W just to let her know, then thought to myself after, WHY? I'm not doing anything for her anymore until she decides she wants an US. I will uphold my vows to the end, and treat her with respect, and she says she will too and honor that, but I have doubts if we really will work it out giver her checked out state. I know it takes time to get over the WAW, but I also know sometimes it just might not happen. Giver her family's history with relationships, it's doubtful. I cannot be the only one that wants to go to retrouvaille, etc forever.
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/28/12 08:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I'm quickly falling out of love with her and loving only an idea of her and doing this only for my kids sake at this point.


So your choice to love her is dependent on how much she conforms to how you think she should treat you? How she acts? What she does or chooses right now?

Wow is that what you said to her when you married her?

"I will love you all the days of my life except when you don't do what I want."

Is that how you want to be loved?

Originally Posted By: Jlove
Not going to do this much longer. I know I'm not supposed to give ultimatums, BUT I do need to protect myself and my kids.


ANd how is giving an ultimatum protecting you? Seems to me it is a thinly diguised way to force your agenda on your time frame which is fine if your goal is to show her you are still THAT guy and you want to get Divorced.

If you don't then do better.

Boundaries are for your protection not to punish her or coerce her.

They should be communicated and have consequences when they are crossed.

I understand that you don't like her choice to go to bars. The destructive bad behavior here may be that she drives home drunk putting herself and others in danger.

It could be that when she interacts with your kids she is being destructive and setting a bad example.

A boundary may be that she agrees not to do this. If she does then you owe it to yourself and your children to remove yourself and your children from that situation of destruction.

BUT

There is fine line between protecting yourself and demanding your own agenda.

The above example is pretty clear.

Originally Posted By: jlove
Now I feel bad about my actions in one part, but respect myself for standing up for myself and feel good about being able to let her go.


You are not letting her go you are reacting to her behavior which means you are not detached.

Look man this is all up to you. No one says you have to put up with this crap.

Why would you want to?

Why are you here?

If I told you that if you did X Y and Z and you could save your M would you do it?

The character and courage part comes when you don't know the outcome.

When you are not guaranteed anything.

Not only that your W is behaving badly right now and asking you to swallow it.

Is the fact she is doing that driving your decision?

If you're going to walk away do it your own terms J.

You will set a good example for your kids and most of all you will be an example for yourself.

It is your choice to be a victim here or to walk your own path regardless of her choices.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 02/28/12 08:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I'm quickly falling out of love with her and loving only an idea of her and doing this only for my kids sake at this point.


So your choice to love her is dependent on how much she conforms to how you think she should treat you? How she acts? What she does or chooses right now?

Wow is that what you said to her when you married her?

"I will love you all the days of my life except when you don't do what I want."

Is that how you want to be loved?

Originally Posted By: Jlove
Not going to do this much longer. I know I'm not supposed to give ultimatums, BUT I do need to protect myself and my kids.


ANd how is giving an ultimatum protecting you? Seems to me it is a thinly diguised way to force your agenda on your time frame which is fine if your goal is to show her you are still THAT guy and you want to get Divorced.

If you don't then do better.

Boundaries are for your protection not to punish her or coerce her.

They should be communicated and have consequences when they are crossed.

I understand that you don't like her choice to go to bars. The destructive bad behavior here may be that she drives home drunk putting herself and others in danger.

It could be that when she interacts with your kids she is being destructive and setting a bad example.

A boundary may be that she agrees not to do this. If she does then you owe it to yourself and your children to remove yourself and your children from that situation of destruction.

BUT

There is fine line between protecting yourself and demanding your own agenda.

The above example is pretty clear.

Originally Posted By: jlove
Now I feel bad about my actions in one part, but respect myself for standing up for myself and feel good about being able to let her go.


You are not letting her go you are reacting to her behavior which means you are not detached.

Look man this is all up to you. No one says you have to put up with this crap.

Why would you want to?

Why are you here?

If I told you that if you did X Y and Z and you could save your M would you do it?

The character and courage part comes when you don't know the outcome.

When you are not guaranteed anything.

Not only that your W is behaving badly right now and asking you to swallow it.

Is the fact she is doing that driving your decision?

If you're going to walk away do it your own terms J.

You will set a good example for your kids and most of all you will be an example for yourself.

It is your choice to be a victim here or to walk your own path regardless of her choices.



I knew you'd hit me in the head with a 2x4 soon TG.

No, my vow was for better or worse. Now is the worse. I wouldn't want to be loved only when I was happy.

I don't really want a divorce, I shouldn't give her timelines and ultimatums. I want to turn this ship around and get the satisfaction that I didn't quit in the face of adversity, when all the cards were down. The ship is me, and she can sail on it if she wants. I am here to vent and to gain perspective from others, such as yourself.

I pray for strength to me the man I need to be. If I walk, it'll be on my terms. There are no guarantees of anything except I have to live with myself and my decisions. Of course, my kids will have to live with them too. I am doing this for them and the hope that they will learn a life lesson someday from this pain.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/02/12 12:45 AM
been a better 2 days since my backslide. still focusing on compassion and GAL. Kids have been great the last few days and we've spent lots of time as a family
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/03/12 11:23 PM
Still pretty well since backslide the other day. Today we went shopping as a family to redo one of the kids bathrooms and W keeps talking about the future of us as a family? Really trying my best not to read into anything. She's been kissing me on the lips more often which she quit for a while, but I let her instigate all contact like that.
We go on week Caribbean trip next week with her family with out the kids, so I'm still very nervous about that! i don't know what she's told anyone in her family about our R, but I don't think too much other than maybe we were having problems a few months ago.
Her father has been married 3 times and his father 4 times and her uncle several to, so God only knows what he'll say if they get talking about over drinks. We get along well, so I have no clue. We go as a group, but spend a lot of time as couples alone and usually only get together as a group in the evening for dinner. Normally I be excited to go, but not this year due to the precarious nature of R right now. My gut tells me W really wants to try to make it work. She has just told herself for so long she was leaving and to finally tell me that, and then not go thru with it, especially after she started EA with OM then cut it off, that she's waiting it out to see how it will all play out. But what do I know, that's just my impression. i think initially she expected ME to file D when I found out about OM and she wanted out and when I didn't I threw her for a loop. Again, who knows and I guess as long as we are both taking day to day, it doesn't matter much...
Posted By: sandi2 Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/03/12 11:56 PM
Quote:
We go on week Caribbean trip next week with her family with out the kids, so I'm still very nervous about that! i don't know what she's told anyone in her family about our R, but I don't think too much other than maybe we were having problems a few months ago.


That could be her reason for you going with the family. In any case, once you are on the trip...be the most charming man alive without any expectations about the trip changing your W's feelings. Even if she puts on a front for her parents, it may not be so much when behind closed doors.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/04/12 01:17 AM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
We go on week Caribbean trip next week with her family with out the kids, so I'm still very nervous about that! i don't know what she's told anyone in her family about our R, but I don't think too much other than maybe we were having problems a few months ago.


That could be her reason for you going with the family. In any case, once you are on the trip...be the most charming man alive without any expectations about the trip changing your W's feelings. Even if she puts on a front for her parents, it may not be so much when behind closed doors.





This is an annual trip we do with them and has been planned/payed for for almost a year, so I don't think/hope that's her plan. She's not too close to her family, and doesn't like to talk about our family issues with them at any time. I just think she mentioned some stuff to her brother one time because she told me he gave her the Dr. Stanley CD's and "Love is not a Decision" a while ago.
We are also all going to her sister's wedding in a few months, so I don't think she'd do something like this on this trip. Hope I'm wrong, but regardless...
Thanks for the great advice to be the most charming man of my life on this trip!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/04/12 01:24 AM
Originally Posted By: sandi2
Quote:
We go on week Caribbean trip next week with her family with out the kids, so I'm still very nervous about that! i don't know what she's told anyone in her family about our R, but I don't think too much other than maybe we were having problems a few months ago.


That could be her reason for you going with the family. In any case, once you are on the trip...be the most charming man alive without any expectations about the trip changing your W's feelings. Even if she puts on a front for her parents, it may not be so much when behind closed doors.





This is an annual trip we do with them and has been planned/payed for for almost a year, so I don't think/hope that's her plan. She's not too close to her family, and doesn't like to talk about our family issues with them at any time. I just think she mentioned some stuff to her brother one time because she told me he gave her the Dr. Stanley CD's and "Love is not a Decision" a while ago.
We are also all going to her sister's wedding in a few months, so I don't think she'd do something like this on this trip. Hope I'm wrong, but regardless...
Thanks for the great advice to be the most charming man of my life on this trip!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/04/12 10:07 PM
Good day for me today. At church I was listening to the sermon on Abraham and how he put his trust in God regardless of how much it could hurt him.
Got me to thinking that this is what I need to do, God has my plan worked out, I just don't know what it is yet. He doesn't work on my timeframe, but He always works. I have to have faith in Him and trust Him that He will take care of me and my family. That gives me peace and I need to draw on this when I'm feeling down and insecure.
I am getting stronger everyday and my prayer lately has just been to be strong and the rock for my family through this difficult period.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/05/12 03:08 PM
Getting stronger by the day. Last night she texted me that she was going for a drink with a g'friend that just got back into town, and I just replied "ok." When she got home, just asked her if she had a good night, she said yes and kissed me.
I am pretty much resigned to let God take over and what He wants for me will be. I cannot control anything but me. Since I have giver her space, I think she's inching back. Just need to keep on and not read anything into her actions/words. Hard, but keeps me focused better.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/07/12 01:07 AM
4 More days till week long trip alone w/ W and in-laws. nervous, but feeling better about it. I'm just going to be the H that anyone would be in love with. Then, a week after we get back from that, I'm the host for her 40th bash with all family (all in-laws)and friends all night. This is a busy month for us, then we move on to several friends and family's weddings coming up and summer vacay with the kids.
It's kind of surreal that we are in la-la land as a couple and all these activities going on. D finding out and freaking out about OM and W having to deal with someone other than me and my pain over it, I think was a different shock to W that she hadn't thought of and maybe the fog is lifting. She swore to both of us that it was over, so I think she's trying. She told me she's daily "trying to do the right thing." i think she is on her level, and i have to have compassion for her there.
I have been doing many GAL activities with kids and on my own, and we talk about most everything EXCEPT R, so it's kinda peaceful here, just odd that all these activities going on and were not physically close except for a couple of kisses a day.
I think we'll eventually work the R out, and now I think I'm more realistic on timeframe and lack thereof. I assumed after 1st bomb we'd be on the outs for a couple of weeks, and we did get physical about a week after, but a couple of months past that, we went to where we are now.
All I know, is that God has a plan, and however it ends up, I'll be ok. That is what I keep reminding myself when I doubt.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/07/12 10:41 PM
I do feel better almost every day. I'm trying my best to focus on me and my kids and just seem happy and pleasant around W. She still seems to be trying in her way, and I guess that's the best I can hope for now.
Working on unconditional love, it's just that living in limbo land is frustrating to say the least. I will not S or D, so that is in her court, IF she wants to go that route, I just know that being with her and close it's hard not to be physical beyond a kiss here and there. THAT, seems like a waste to me. Not that I'd even consider any other R right now, but I do have human needs there and this is the longest I've been without for over 25 years. Also, all the working out makes me even more wanting sexual relations, so that is tough. I know monks and such go a lifetime, but that's not me. This physical need, not just sex, but hugging, etc., is my toughest struggle right now, in all honesty.
Meeting with my minister tomorrow to pray about our upcoming vacay in 3 days and for spiritual advice...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/18/12 12:31 PM
Well, shouldn't have gone on trip. Went ok after a fight 1st night and she asked me to stay and signed up for Retrouvaile. But now we are getting D. W is filing tomorrow and I will not contest. I'm ok with her D just sad for 3 kids. I have come to realize that I need to be with someone that loves and wants to be with me and I deserve better than her MLC crap. I am missing love by way too much. You all on this board are stronger than me.

I tried, not hard enough I admit, but I feel free now. In 31 days from tomorrow, this chapter will be over and i can pick up my life with my kids and really begin detaching from her. I will focus on me and start to date slowly after I heal more and am capable of giving a woman what she deserves.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/18/12 02:40 PM
I'm sorry about the latest JL. It's all your perspective, perhaps you are stronger in being able to let go and envision a bright future for yourself w/o your W. My w moved out 8 months ago and I struggle to see myself in the future w/ someone else.

How did you go from signing up for Retrouvaille to filing for D so abrubtly?
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/18/12 05:05 PM
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I tried, not hard enough I admit, but I feel free now. In 31 days from tomorrow, this chapter will be over and i can pick up my life with my kids and really begin detaching from her.


BUT is an excuse not to do what you know you should or what you want.

OK I am not here to convince you to contest your D. Actually that means nothing. Your D.

Really it doesn't. yes you do deserve to have someone who loves you but what does that mean J?

Your W may not be showing you what you think love is right now.

I may have said this before to you cause I say it a lot because it is important that you understand and that you not use your W as excuse for not trying...

use your W as an excuse to be victim of her choices instead of making your own.

You want off the hook?

sure go ahead no one will blame you. This is hard but you are missing something if you head for the exit.

The show isn't over. Hers maybe but not yours because you are writing it.

So when you said your vows did you say:

"I will love and honor you all the days of my life, for better or worse

BUT

If you stop showing me love the way I need to see it.

If you are scared and confused. If you are so scared you run away from me and can't see your way

THEN I won't."

As that what you meant to say that day?

I know it is hard to see right now J but you even said up there you haven't detached yet.

Detachment is a necessary step to seeing what you need to see to find YOUR way.

Not her way. Yours. If you are attached, then you make choices from your emotions and that will leave a scar on you my friend.

THAT will hurt you and keep hurting you. There is a difference between moving on and moving FORWARD.

This is not about her unless you let it be about her. It is not about her choices

It is how react to those choices that will make all the difference J.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/18/12 08:44 PM
Originally Posted By: sayitaintso
I'm sorry about the latest JL. It's all your perspective, perhaps you are stronger in being able to let go and envision a bright future for yourself w/o your W. My w moved out 8 months ago and I struggle to see myself in the future w/ someone else.

How did you go from signing up for Retrouvaille to filing for D so abrubtly?


W said she was filing after she came home after 2 am last night again and we got in an argument. Now, she says she will go and if the weekend doesn't work, then maybe it's over. who knows...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/18/12 08:47 PM
Originally Posted By: Truegritter
Originally Posted By: Jlove
I tried, not hard enough I admit, but I feel free now. In 31 days from tomorrow, this chapter will be over and i can pick up my life with my kids and really begin detaching from her.


BUT is an excuse not to do what you know you should or what you want.

OK I am not here to convince you to contest your D. Actually that means nothing. Your D.

Really it doesn't. yes you do deserve to have someone who loves you but what does that mean J?

Your W may not be showing you what you think love is right now.

I may have said this before to you cause I say it a lot because it is important that you understand and that you not use your W as excuse for not trying...

use your W as an excuse to be victim of her choices instead of making your own.

You want off the hook?

sure go ahead no one will blame you. This is hard but you are missing something if you head for the exit.

The show isn't over. Hers maybe but not yours because you are writing it.

So when you said your vows did you say:

"I will love and honor you all the days of my life, for better or worse

BUT

If you stop showing me love the way I need to see it.

If you are scared and confused. If you are so scared you run away from me and can't see your way

THEN I won't."

As that what you meant to say that day?

I know it is hard to see right now J but you even said up there you haven't detached yet.

Detachment is a necessary step to seeing what you need to see to find YOUR way.

Not her way. Yours. If you are attached, then you make choices from your emotions and that will leave a scar on you my friend.

THAT will hurt you and keep hurting you. There is a difference between moving on and moving FORWARD.

This is not about her unless you let it be about her. It is not about her choices

It is how react to those choices that will make all the difference J.





Thanks for the advice TG. I have to stop operating out of pain and out of love. I'm just at my wits end and I don't want my kids to see this. it's a slow train wreck and I just want the pain to go away.

You are right, those were my vows, for better and worse. This is worse, so i still have to love. She can file after Retrouvaille if she wants to and I won't try to stop her. i'll let her go if I need to at this point.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/19/12 12:38 AM
Now she says it's me that wants D and I've told her that ball is in her court, at least for now. We are back on to Retrouvaille next month and then see where we go from there. I am REALLY trying to give her space and just love, regardless of what I get/perceive coming from her.

This morning she hates me and is leaving tomorrow/filing D to later she cannot commit to me, but doesn't want to hurt the kids, to is back to "trying my best." This is a roller coaster like no other and I am really trying not to get on. I do love her, not her actions.

I just hope we can learn some things that will help us next month at Retrouvaille as I don't really think she wants to go, but is looking at it as a last ditch, "see I tried it and it didn't work," type thing. I cannot control that I just don't understand. I know that it has a high success rate and of course should have no expectations, but does anyone have any input on weather it helps with a spouse that doesn't really want to try, but doesn't really want to leave also. So confused.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/20/12 12:12 PM
Since sunday it's been calm around the house. W came home early and is kissing me and hasn't filed D. I really think if it's going to happen, I'll have to file. She told D that she wants us to stay together as a family. Oh confusion...And her BIG 40 is this week so I know there's a tom of MLC going on with her.

Curious about how Retrouvaille will help us in 3 weeks??? due to our schedules, the followup weeks will be hard to make more than a few.

I just need to constantly focus on being at peace with me and being the man that I want to be and I'll be ok.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/21/12 02:15 PM
I guess I have to understand that W kissing me and telling me where she is and what she's doing and accounting for time is a positive step that she's trying her own way.

I love her and do spend a lot of time alone with her, never really discussing our R. I am honestly very sexually frustrated and I think it's adding to my stress. It's not an excuse for any behavior, just the fact that it's the longest I've been without sex since I was 15 years old. I get that she's "not there yet," and I guess there's nothing I can do because I'm not considering an affair or anything (I have purposely avoided all women since this because I know I am weak there right now, and NO I have never cheated on my W).

I know I'm not alone here, so what have some of you who have gone wayyy longer than me done here. I think it may be a while longer before we reach that point and I want to save my marriage, so I'm asking for advice. I work out over 10 hours a week and that actually INCREASES my libido dramatically, so i need other avenues. Thanks. J
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 03/23/12 09:24 PM
Backslid a little today. I picked her up after going out with girlfriends last night and she was drunk and acting strange. Didn't say anything and we just went to bed when we got home.

This am I picked up her phone and noticed she had a FB IM from OM (they aren't friends anymore on FB). "I miss u, etc..."

After she woke up after sleeping it off, I confessed that I saw it and asked her about it. She was shocked and said they haven't had any contact in 2 months or so and she didn't know about it. I told her I was sorry for snooping and shouldn't have and asked her what we should do about it. She said she'd ignore it and I should too.

I said ok and I'd move on but that it was my fault and it opened old wounds again. It is my fault for snooping, but she didn't act mad and I told her I loved her and would let it go and she told me she loved me back which she hadn't done in a long time.

Even though I backslid, I finally handled it rationally rather then flipping out and causing another fight over that jacka"@
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/02/12 12:54 PM
OM was in her workplace again the other night. She said "you have nothing to worry about," and left it at that. I know she shouldn't be around him, but there's no way to stop from seeing im at times in the workplace. Sure this is common in other situations, I just have to trust her and move on there. She told me, I have to forget about that.

Retrouvaille is next weekend and I hope we have a breakthru there. Still keeping hope alive and most things seem better, but "when life looks like easy street, there is danger at your door."
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/09/12 07:19 PM
We're going to Retrouvaille this weekend. I'm praying it helps and we make some progress here. It will be nice to just focus on R for 48 hours without distractions. We'll see.

I definately need love and physical contact back in my life and I told her the other night that I do and will not wait forever for it and that I deserved more and better. Kinda left it at that then all she really said was she couldn't fake it and thanks for being patient. My hormones have been screaming lately...
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/11/12 12:11 PM
We got the confirmation calls from Retrouvaille the other night. She told the lady she was going to work on M and seems to be trying, so I guess that's good for now.

We went out last night and she was bragging to her friends about my abs and muscles that I've been busting my a(! for the last 5 months building and making me show them. That got me looking at other women and staring to think about what if I was single and stuff....just thinking, but as we've said before here, what happens when LBS decides to actually move on too. After a while of treading h2o, I guess those thoughts start to come.

Not there yet, by any stretch, but just had some of those thoughts. One thing for sure, I will never break my vows or get involved with anyone that's still M after this crap.
Posted By: 2thepoint Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/11/12 01:57 PM
J - I'm pulling for you and your W and hope that your upcoming weekend with RTRV will provide the tools you two need to get on track and stay there.

I totally understand the sexual frustration you are dealing with. I'm in that same boat; 8 months now!! Just do your best to find other things to keep you mind occupied and your eye on the prize (restoration of your M).

I was looking back over your past several posts and see that OM is still attempting contact via FB. If your RTRV weekend proves successful, you may want to consider discussing with your W that in order to rebuild trust between the two of you that she must be completely transparent AND that she must cut off all contact with OM. This would include sending a letter or calling OM in your presence and demanding that he never contact her again. This is of course your call, but it would seem like a necessary next step if you are to get your R back to a healthy place.

Best of luck to you!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/11/12 03:47 PM
Originally Posted By: 2thepoint

I was looking back over your past several posts and see that OM is still attempting contact via FB. If your RTRV weekend proves successful, you may want to consider discussing with your W that in order to rebuild trust between the two of you that she must be completely transparent AND that she must cut off all contact with OM. This would include sending a letter or calling OM in your presence and demanding that he never contact her again. This is of course your call, but it would seem like a necessary next step if you are to get your R back to a healthy place.

Best of luck to you!


Thanks for the kind thoughts!!! She is not friends with OM on FB anymore, but he just sends her a message from time to time. I have discussed it with her before and she says she has not instigated them or returned them. 3 months ago, she sent him a reply that I read that she was working on M and for him to not contact her any further. He responded that he would honor her wishes, blah, blah, blah. But, he has sent her at least one more "I miss u, etc." since then. She claims it was the only one.

I agree, NO CONTACT is in order, and I had planned to ask her if Retrouvaille is successful to permanently block him from messages on FB, so if he does send her one, she'll never see it. I think she's trying her best. He does go into her restaurant from time to time, so that contact I don't know how to avoid but want to get to the place where she can tell me about it and tell him that it's over between them and to find someone else. i cannot force that, and for us to rebuild this, i will have to trust her and she will have to make those moves on her own.

She is looking for other work, so hopefully that'll end that. She is a Christian, and she knows what she did was wrong, so I think I have to let her walk those steps on her own, if that makes sense?

Thanks again!!!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/12/12 09:01 PM
Well, tomorrow we go to Retrouvaille! I think my W is more nervous than me. She's been acting ok, just a little funny. I'm projecting I know, but I think she is actually a little scared it will work as she knows God can provide miracles.

I think in her mind when she had been selling herself on leaving, that she could justify it to our family that she had to be happy and they'd come around, but when she saw the hurt she caused D when she found out about OM, etc, she realized she fooled herself.

I think she's in a limbo land right now where she can't/doesn't want to leave or D, but was so far checked out on us and going back to us is a big step for her. I get that, and I may be mind reading, but I have known her for most of her life.

I don't really know what to expect at Retrouvaille this weekend, but just us 1 on 1 talking about us should be a huge step. We'll see.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/13/12 12:10 AM
Retrovaille is a good thing, a really good thing.

But keep the focus on what YOU can do to be a better partner and h and try not to stare at her for her reactions

don't take the temperature of the marriage either. First off it won't sink in til later anyhow and please make sure you do the follow up programs....

but don't stress those to your w atm, just get her there and she'll hear other couples who are happy together but have been to hell and back...let her hear it without you constantly checking in...okay?

So get what YOU can out of it for YOU and the work you do as a couple will be important listening work, and communicating in new, safer healthier ways.

I wish you luck and joy and am cautiously optimistic for you...
Posted By: Truegritter Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/13/12 06:52 AM
J

Retro is tough.

Just to warn you.

But it is great and weeds out the weak in a relationship.

I mean it takes effort and you'll figure out who wants to do it

which is why some say do it at the right time

if you have someone not commited they will be out of there like a dog running from a flying hand at its rump.

don't put stock in it if it ain't the right time is my point ok?

get what you can out of it. YOU.
Posted By: BFloat Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/13/12 06:42 PM
hi jlove. i haven't been following your sitch but someone posted to me that you were attending RV this weekend and wondered if we might be attending the same one!

good luck to you! i will be waiting to read about your experience. i am going in with an open mind and realizing that i can only do the work for myself. whether H decides to do any work is entirely up to him. ahhh.. so much easier said than done!

take care.
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/13/12 07:26 PM
Prayers out to you BF! Good luck to you too!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/16/12 09:19 PM
well, let us know how it went.

Fingers crossed!
Posted By: jlove Re: New trying to DB-Help! - 04/17/12 12:28 AM
the thread moved to here 25. Thanks for the thoughts!!!

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