http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2211642#Post2211642Well time for a new thread. Very little change with W. We are cordial but no emotions towards me. Hard to believe that it happened so fast. One day we were planning our entire summer with lots of fun and next we are in the middle of this? Got an email from my L today and our court date is on March 6th. Now it is all about numbers and who gets what? Hope my D does not get hurt too bad from this. Really very sorry that she has to deal with it. I hate the idea that she will be living elsewhere. I did lots of fancy wood work and painting to her room.
I said something very similar on my thread yesterday-one day you're sharing everything and the next day-POOF! It's like you are little more than cordial strangers.
Maybe I am LRTing too hard? Yesterday barely saw W since I was gone all day. Came home from work Tonite said hi and she said same. as I was getting my shirt and shorts W said ' I have computer class tomorrow and Wednesday'. And next Monday'. I said ok. Not sure what that means other than me driving D to school on those days. We ate dinner and I ate most of what she served but threw some out. Been doing that for a while which is new. I finished eating a few seconds before her thanked for cooking got up and cleaned my dish and utensils. She sat there by her plate while staring at her food or floor not sure. Not sure if I should wait for her to finish but I can not mind read any more been doing it for almost 3 decades. I would do what I thought she wanted me but never saying anything just me assuming.
In about 7 weeks we will be in court. I pray to be dignified And not become vindictive or bitter.
Prayers to you and your D Rick!
I said something very similar on my thread yesterday-one day you're sharing everything and the next day-POOF! It's like you are little more than cordial strangers.
Amen... I was thinking that tonight as I reminisced... just last February I was in Florida on Valentine's Day due to work travel and my W texted me some racy photos of her. Something she had NEVER done before... then in May we were touring a modular home builder looking at floorplans and designs... in June we were planning how to take the kids to Disney World next summer... and in July the wheels started to come off this thing. We're more than cordial strangers at this point I guess... we did have that period though. Now I'd call us "old friends" who happen to have kids together.
What I find both funny and odd at the same time is that because we either a) have been together so long or b) have similar likes/thoughts (or both I suppose) we still routinely find ourselves doing the same thing. Just yesterday my W told my S he was "hot-blooded" and as I walked away and into the dining room I found myself singing "Hot Blooded" by Foreigner. And as I came into the living room there was my W singing the same song and we were at the exact same point...
Got an email from my L that he had emailed my W's L requesting the Case Information due in November. He stated that her L was waiting for W to provide more information but that it was coming. I wonder if she is having 2nd thoughts. Like I said in my other post, W last night behaved strange. As if she wanted to say something. I don't know if I should have a talk about the D and what are her thoughts. Last time I did, it did not go well but I know that W won't tell me if she is having 2nd thoughts or start that convo. My W fired her 1st L because she had failed to file the same info? This is all so very crazy.
While I'm new to the process, I think the orthodoxy answer is to let the walk away spouse initiate that conversation if it's going to happen... though perhaps someone wiser than I could suggest a way to break the ice and ease her into that?
Rick - I know it's hard not to do, but you should avoid the mind reading. Keep moving forward, working on yourself, one day at a time. I would think if your W wanted to throw up the stop sign, she will do so blatently.
I will keep you in my prayers.
P.S. WHG - I now have some Foreigner song going through head with something about a 103 degree fever in it.
Got an email from my L that he had emailed my W's L requesting the Case Information due in November. He stated that her L was waiting for W to provide more information but that it was coming. I wonder if she is having 2nd thoughts. Like I said in my other post, W last night behaved strange. As if she wanted to say something. I don't know if I should have a talk about the D and what are her thoughts. Last time I did, it did not go well but I know that W won't tell me if she is having 2nd thoughts or start that convo. My W fired her 1st L because she had failed to file the same info? This is all so very crazy.
Rick, I think you know that you should not initiate a R discussion. All you can do is set the stage for your W to initiate if/when she is ready. As others have said, don't mind read because it will make you crazy. But, should a R conversation occur, be prepared to validate and respond calmly and in a loving and supportive way.
^^^ bumping your thread since your old one seems to have been resurrected... hope you are doing well, Rick!
In 1930s Italy, a carefree Jewish book keeper named Guido starts a fairy tale life by courting and marrying a lovely woman from a nearby city. Guido and his wife have a son and live happily together until the occupation of Italy by German forces. In an attempt to hold his family together and help his son survive the horrors of a Jewish Concentration Camp, Guido imagines that the Holocaust is a game and that the grand prize for winning is a tank. The Oscar winning movie "Life is Beautiful" portrayed a man who endured the Concentration Camp for his family. Being happy in marriage is a lot about attitude (in the absence of drugs, physical abuse and adultery). Unhappy people are unhappy before marriage, during marriage, and post-divorce. Don't let the tail wag the dog (divorce). Stay married, be happy (it is possible even if you are the only one trying).
I saw this^^^^posted of DB FB thought it was well put.
Rick,
Sounds like you are getting good advice here. Don't really have much to add, accept that I still often think about how in june of last year, my wife picked me up at the airport on june 19th, we went out and bought a new couch for our new place. On june 20th, I left for work that morning, kissed my w goodbye, told her I love her, she told me she loved me. Called her at work that day, ended the conversation with "love you" as I always did, she said the same thing to me. Later on that day, we were out jogging together, we finished up, she came up to me and said " I can't do this anymore" Talk about shock. Guess we all have our own stories, I am still shaking my head!!
greetings rick
very interesting report on W. here is a so called "truism" on relationships: "if you change, she can't not change - it's literally impossible". it could be your taking initiative and doing new things has rubbed off on your W. either way, i see it as only a positive that you are both doing new things. i hope you keep it up. keep her and yourself confused!
i know it's very hard to avoid the parlor game of what W's family phone calls mean. as MWD (michelle weiner-davis) says in one of her books, it's so easy to speculate and be wrong. and sometimes those speculations infuse your interactions in a counter-productive way.
what does help is to look at what you can observe first hand, and that is why interactions with W are so useful to talk about here, especially atypical interactions, even more especially atypical interactions that start showing a trend.
shuffle, turn-over, ventilate, experiment, hone in on some of those things that really feel right. that's what you are doing so it must be part of who you are.
oys2
Thanks oys2
Yesterday I drove D to school and we discussed dinner. W had arranged for me to heat up chicken breast but decided on something else. Baked salmon and swordfish with linguini and white clam sauce. D liked the idea. W came home and barely said hi. She served us dinner and D sat to it with us. Noticed that every time it is my night to cook and I discuss the menu with D she eats with us. I like that very much.
I noticed that W is a bit cold towards my D also. But I dodn't know if she is that way when I am not around?
This morning on my way to work she wished me a good day?
W got a letter from her L last night but she had not opened it when I left this morning. I received a copy from my L as to the discovery that was sent to her L. This thing is moving pretty fast.
Have dentist appointment this afternoon so I should be home early. Will have to play some serious MW3 to get my head out of the fog.
Had a talk with the WAW at work. She found out that her H got a ticket while he was driving her car. So she was really pissed.They 1st separated in April for 4 months and they have been separated now since October.
During this last S she told me she was done with him, couldn't wait to start dating and was seen with a male on her birthday just 2 weeks ago.
Today she tells me "if he showed me some thing, just a change that he will be mature, I would think about it. Yeah I also read a couple of pages online of that book (DR). I would reconsider I do miss him. But I can not go back to the old ways. It would take months of MC".
Guess people due change? When this started she was dead set on a D.
Had a talk with the WAW at work. She found out that her H got a ticket while he was driving her car. So she was really pissed.They 1st separated in April for 4 months and they have been separated now since October.
During this last S she told me she was done with him, couldn't wait to start dating and was seen with a male on her birthday just 2 weeks ago.
Today she tells me "if he showed me some thing, just a change that he will be mature, I would think about it. Yeah I also read a couple of pages online of that book (DR). I would reconsider I do miss him. But I can not go back to the old ways. It would take months of MC".
Guess people due change? When this started she was dead set on a D.
Yeah Rick, I do think it is hard to erase years of shared history. Unless there were years of abuse as opposed to the marriage simply having gone stale, it would seem that there would be an opportunity to restore the M as long as both parties were willing to correct the behaviors that led them to where they are now.
BTW - I meant to comment about something you wrote in one of your pasts a few days ago about the church service you attended last Sunday. The topic at my church was exactly the same as yours, temptation.
I wonder if as a new year starts and people commit to making changes in their lives, if the church recognizes this as ripe terrain for satan to tempt us into changes that could lead to poor decisions, (i.e. infidelity, divorce, etc.).
Anyway, it was a good sermon and a good reminder that satan is always trying to get a hook into our souls.
Rick, it sounds like you get a good perspective from the other side from the WAW at work. I think that helps prove that one person can get the change in the relationship started.
BTW - I meant to comment about something you wrote in one of your pasts a few days ago about the church service you attended last Sunday. The topic at my church was exactly the same as yours, temptation.
I found this interesting. Guess what we're discussing at my Men's group at church?
Yep. Temptation.
We've been discussing dealing with lonliness at my Tuesday night group - and lonliness can also lead to temptation.
Anyway, it was a good sermon and a good reminder that satan is always trying to get a hook into our souls.
Ain't this the truth!
Got an email from L that W submitted her paperwork. Came home early and W was at her pc working and seemed super happy. Feeling a little down right now. But I trully am preparing my brain and heart for singlehood what else can I do
hey rick
you got a very valuable perspective from a WAW today. and there is a whole lot of valuable info in it. one of these days i'll learn to imbed text quotes from other posters here, but for now i'll use old-fashioned reference (if there's any other posters that are good with directions, i'll gladly learn this trick!)
first, you get the "behind the curtains" view that your own W will not share with you at this point, namely that of uncertainty and residual feelings of attachment. i would say this is the true state with many WAWs - although i don't claim all. secondly, and equally importantly, it tells you how important the long-term outlook is. the key thing many WAWs (or WAHs) are looking for is sustainable, long-term change. which is great, because that's the kind we all want for ourselves, too.
today's observation of W may be correct. perhaps she is in a good mood because she feels like she has had the gumption to go through with her plan. and perhaps, at this point, that grass outside the marriage is looking very green. and perhaps it will be. or perhaps it won't be so much. time will tell.
but here is what i don't think your W realizes. human sexual/romantic relationships create a form of attachment that is very hard to extinguish. there are always times in the life cycle of the relationship where frustration with partner seems to override this. and, indeed, sometimes on a permanent basis. yet, whatever this biological thing is that creates attachment, it doesn't really care about the legal status of your relationship! in our heads, in our thinking, we care and make much of it - and i'm not saying we should not. but i am saying that this residual or latent attachment does not necessarily die with the issuance of the divorce decree. and that's probably exactly why your WAW at work would be "re-attracted" to her partner if she had reason to believe in sustainable change.
i cannot and would not say to any one person that this will happen. nor is it my job in any way to steer you away from your own expectations and way you need to manage and survive your situation. sometimes "letting go" or detaching not only helps you protect yourself, but it can also provide a constructive sea change in the energy in a relationship - when it's real. i can, though, talk about something i have experienced myself and observed many times in other people - this tendency for attachment feelings to have a life of their own.
the beauty of a great GAL strategy, though, is you truly win either way. and in that sense, you are winning.
best,
oys2
Some times when I read responses I feel like. I am reading my own obituary?
hey rick,
would you say more about this post? and can you be more specific? is there anything that would be more helpful?
oys2
oys2 I was feeling down last night and just imagening going to court as if it is a slaughter house? And your post are very insightful and helpful. Thanks again
Talked to a good friend on my 2 hr commute home and felt pretty good and understood. When I got home W was cooking dinner, burritos and D was making brownies. There goes the LBS diet
W sounded sick sneezing all over the place. We sat to eat and she could not control her runny nose. I looked at her and she looks disheveled. Frail , this is her 3rd cold since the sitch. She never got sick before. I really feel bad for her. But in the past I would have recommended many remedies she would have gotten annoyed and me pissed. Today I had no urge to say anything just feel bad for her.
While watching the news they played clip about commentators talking about a huge emotional explotio nif Newt became the nominee. Steve Colbert came on and in the German said FUBAR. Really funny and I laughed pretty hard. I don't think W appreciated it.Time for MW3
Rick,
I feel for you - I really do. I don't have much to offer at this time except for - don't lose hope and keep being patient, but try no to have too many expectations right now. You are being kind to your wife and giving her space and that is what she needs.
And in the meantime, you continue going about your life and enjoying your time with your D.
BTW, you sound like a great cook. I am so jealous of your wife! My H never cooked anything except pasta (with jar sauce) and Ramen... But then again, I didn't really cook that often either. But I can say I can definitely follow a recipe and make a killer Jambalaya. I have also won two guacamole tasting contests at two different companies.
(being Hispanic, winning was more a relief for me than anything else, haha!)
OK, that was my attempt to cheer you up - I know you have been down. Hang in there!
Thanks KG I love cooking actually thought W how to.
W is on my AAA plan and need to renew next month. It is for 2 years. Been thinking of just paying for mine and deleting her. What do you think?
W tells me that tonight she and D are going to a horse show award and won't be home for dinner. She than tells me that her brother is having surgery sometime next week. They found a malignant tumor in his colon. I told her I was sorry. He is 51 single and no kids. I knew something was wrong as her aunt has called her numerous time lats week. That is unusual
I may need a 2x4 but could not help myself. She tells me about the horse thing 1st and than drops the BIL thing. I was confused and laughed but caught myself. I hope 2012 is not like 2011. Can't have another year like that, no freaking way.
So sad about the BIL. Hopefully the surgery will be successful.
My grandmother used to say: It never rains but it pours.
Hope so too LA.
My interaction with W today is something for me to remember. First after the BIL news I started to feel guilty and was thinking that playing video games or flying my models would be wrong. This is what happened to me in June when I heard about D failing 4 classes and W's plans for the week. To compete in a horse show the next day.
So I don't know how to define this but I know that this is the stuff that used enrage me. So my conflict is resolved. I will GAL. Video games flying models and. even a little bike ridding is in order. Oh man
W and D left for the horse ceremony thing around quarter to six. Was feeling really rejected and questionned why I want to save this. Thirty minutes later they came home. D changed her mind and wants to eat with me? W went alone.
Rick,
Wow, the rollercoaster never ends.
I am glad that you have some "reserve" GAL activities lined up. That way, when you are down or dejected (like earlier today), you have something to take your mind away from it rather quickly.
The good news is that you didn't need them today. So enjoy this "bonus" time with D!
As for your W, who knows...
(and hopefully you can get to a point of serious detachment where you can also say: and who cares?)
And I almost forgot - sorry about the BIL. I hate receiving those kinds of news.
Just makes me appreciate even more my health, my family and my time with my kids.
Have a great weekend.
Hey Rick, you're doing a great job detaching.
Maybe you're W's odd behaviour had something to do with the news of BIL. Sure, it would be nice to think it was because she was missing you... and also, her being happy at the computer probably had nothing to do with you, either... just sayin'...
Are you still in LRT mode?
Have you considered any 180s recently? If you stay status quo, the sitch will stay status quo...
Hey KD still in LTR mode going on 3 months. I have done many 180 s thinking of some more but can't think of many. I know in the past when W would tell me something that I thought was wague I would go into full interrogation mode. I still struggle with it internally but have stopped completely. When she told me about BIL I would have asked tons of questions instead I said I was sorry to hear that and went about my business. Part of the problem is my work but have shut it down in personal life.
Went church and the young guy sat next to me again. After service we talked for half hour. He wanted to buy me breakfast since I did last time but I had other plans. TBH I did not feel like listening to his problems today. Hope it does not sound cold. I did talked to him again about DBing but he has not bought into it. I have offered him my book directed him To the boards but he is not interest. He TM his W last week breaking the restraining order and was threatened with incarceration. I was a bit direct and told him he did not look
attractive, looks depressed and disheveled. Gave me a blank stare and said that he knew.
I think I needed some alone time today at the bay typing and enjoying the ocean
I think I needed some alone time today at the bay typing and enjoying the ocean
My daughter said something about a guy creeping in the background during a Jersey Shore episode...
Feet in the water, with a laptop , and an Xbox remote...
Was that you ???
: )
LOL nah. They film that show north of me. Not a bad idea tho.
good morning rick
it's interesting to read a series of posts after being gone for a few days. every time i read about someone who is able to change their response pattern in situations i am honestly impressed. even in situations where it seems trivial or unimportant. this is really where the rubber meets the road as they say - and reflects your successful retraining of yourself. and even though it isn't always apparent, it keeps influencing the nature of your relationship - away from the status quo and onto something different.
it's also interesting that it turns out all of those calls to family may have been about BIL's situation (of which we all want the best).
let's pretend i am a genie in a bottle and can grant you three wishes. what would they be?
oys2
"let's pretend i am a genie in a bottle and can grant you three wishes. what would they be?"
Oys2 when I saw your post I had to take a walk. Have not thought of what I want. Hard questions and will try TBH with my answers.
If you could grant me 3 wishes I would want:
1- That my W would be the person she was 5 or 6 years ago. We used to have dreams, plans, and spent time together. That changed a couple of years ago.
2- A time machine so I can go back and respond differently towards W when she did or said things that irked me.
3- Stop the fears that I have about the future.
Good exercise for the brain oys2. Thanks
hmmmm - great question. i want to play!
I would ask for things that I have no control of. After all, aren't genies supposed to grant anything?
1) I'll agree with Rick. I'd like to first go back to the beginning of my marriage with the awareness and insight I now have.
2) To turn on the light bulb within my mom, so she could also start her own journey towards healing and recovery.
3)To let me live long enough to see my own kids well on their way in their own lives.
A fast friend asked me to stop by...
Glad I did, although you are probably going to want to put your walking shoes back on...
After reading your last post, I honestly don't see a very different person than who was posting in August. (Yes, I went back to your first thread).
1. You want your W to be who she was 5 or 6 years ago.
How much has she really changed? Other than finally having enough backbone to not put up with your abusive behavior anymore?
To finally do what you repeatedly asked her to do?
2. A time machine to change your responses...
Hard if you don't really understand what caused those responses in the first place and please don't tell me it was her behavior...
There is/was something inside of you that made it ok with you to allow yourself to respond very badly when you were angry.
Those responses, as recently as last summer, are what has gotten you here.
How has that changed now, other than you not allowing it? Do you still have the instinct to respond badly?
Are you just responding differently because you got the result that you asked for but didn't really want and are feeling guilty?
Or have you really changed the behavior?
3. Stopping fears about the future.
What fears? How can you stop them if you can't even define them?
And what does that say about controlling tendencies?
Rick,
Nothing is set in stone, nothing you can do is going to make the past different than it was and nothing you do is going to make the future so secure that there is nothing to be afraid of.
Those are cold hard facts of life.
So let's try it again.
^^^ true, but yikes!!No kid gloves round here.
"Glad I did, although you are probably going to want to put your walking shoes back on..."
Not at all Cat and glad you stopped by.
"How has that changed now, other than you not allowing it? Do you still have the instinct to respond badly?"
Yes I still have those instincts but we are working them out in IC. It has changed in the fact that I am aware of how wrong it was. And yes I am not allowing the behavior at this point. My understanding is that by been aware of them that they will in time be substituted with new and acceptable behavior. If that makes sense.
"And what does that say about controlling tendencies?"
I agree to being controlling. It really has been a problem for me. I never really paid attention to how much I nagged and critized her to be who I wanted her to be.
"Or have you really changed the behavior?"
I have changed the behavior externally. Meaning I am not criticizing or nagging at home or at work. But it is still in there. It is something that needs more work.
You asked that I start over. So I will.
I would ask the genie these instead:
1- to stop getting angry when I feel disrespected.
2- to stop getting angry when I feel rejected
3- that new and acceptable behaviors become a true part of myself and who I am.
I don't want to leave this out. I had a reaction to your post Cat. My cheeks felt warm. So something that I struggle with is esteem issues.
Rick,
I think all these are things YOU can control, with hard work...
I am with you and I know how you feel, because I HAVE THE SAME ISSUES...
BUT
you first need to be convinced that you can do this!!!
So no need to ask a genie for that.
(See what I am saying?)
Don't dispair!
I have changed the behavior externally. Meaning I am not criticizing or nagging at home or at work. But it is still in there. It is something that needs more work.
Drive for show...putt for dough...
Oh crap, this isn't the Golf forum is it ?
Anyway...same concept....
Yes I still have those instincts but we are working them out in IC. It has changed in the fact that I am aware of how wrong it was. And yes I am not allowing the behavior at this point. My understanding is that by been aware of them that they will in time be substituted with new and acceptable behavior. If that makes sense.
Yes it makes sense.
I am just not sure how much I buy into the idea that simply being aware of something is enough.
My X has a angry streak. He is aware of it. Still, there has been rare occasion where that anger has gotten out of control. Because he has not dealt with the underlying issues for that anger. Until he does, there will continue to be outbursts in his life.
I have changed the behavior externally. Meaning I am not criticizing or nagging at home or at work. But it is still in there. It is something that needs more work.
Changing externally is the first step.
Definately not the last.
I would ask the genie these instead:
1- to stop getting angry when I feel disrespected.
2- to stop getting angry when I feel rejected
3- that new and acceptable behaviors become a true part of myself and who I am.
So since we know that there is no genie, I will ask you this.
1. What sorts of things make you feel disrespected?
2. What sorts of things make you feel rejected?
3. Why do you react with anger when these things happen?
Anger is a masking emotion. For other emotions that are harder to deal with.
When I feel rejected, I feel hurt. Sad. Lonely. Unwanted. Unworthy.
It is easier to wrap all of that up into an angry reaction, be mean and snippy with people than to examine what is really going on. And the anger passes quicker than the pain.
However, the better solution, because I do not like myself when I react with anger, is to understand what it is that is causing me to feel the rejection. If there is some coorelation between the present and the past. And to learn what I need to then give to myself in order for me to feel better.
When I first got into my current R, I would feel rejection when BF had his children or other people around and was giving them the attention that I wanted.
Why did this hurt me so deeply? Because within my M, my X gave attention to other people first. He was much more interested in his friends, his family, his OW, than he was with me. His W. I was always a side thought for him. Similar to the way I was treated by my own parents. The last, least important person.
While this made me a very strong and independent person in many ways, it also left me craving attention, feeling rejection at even the smallest slight, and very angry.
After I found DB, learned unconditional love, forgivness, etc... I thought that I had conquered that. Because I wasn't angry anymore. I was focused on myself, my life, and making me happy.
X was doing his thing and I was really ok with that and whatever outcome our M had (which is one of D, although I would have faced the rejection thing if we had reconciled as well, because rejection is generally something that requires more than one person.)
Until I got into my new R. When I found myself feeling similar feelings, I had to dig deeper, as we say here. To understand the root and figure out how to kill it.
I had bought into those silent messages of rejection. I felt unworthy to myself. I felt unimportant to myself.
I had to learn to undo those internal messages.
I still crave attention within the context of a relationship. I also understand that just because I might not receive it at all times, I am not necessarily being rejected. I have learned what is going on inside of me that might put me in the disposition to feel that way. When I'm tired. When I'm PMSing. When we haven't had enough one on one time. I have learned how to articulate what I DO need, and if I don't receive it (because we can't always get what we want) I have also learned
what I can give to myself (GAL type stuff) so that it really isn't that bad. See how this works?
Brutal honesty. With the most important person first and foremost. Myself.
Simple, not easy, but simple.
Cat you are asking me to look at my upbringing which I have only glanced over and put away. But yes the people who should have loved me unconditionally did not or did not know how. I never talked about it since my experience was different from my siblings. But they stunk at parenting and they were lousy spouses to each other. We moved alot and they fought constantly. They were to busy making eachother miserable to pay attention to us. I kind of raised
myself. Left when I was 18 and never dealt with stuff. Didn't think I needed.
Yes they rejected me and constantly criticized me and put me down. So I guess that is where I learned this. I too feel unloved when I don't get attention. I remember Sandi2 asking early on how I maintain Rs? I really never thought of but now that I have. I can say that I never had. Only long term R with anyone other than my siblings has been my W.
So I guess I have a lifetime of work ahead just know that I am game.
I will answer your 3 questions when I can think better.
Hey Rick,
I applaud you on your honesty and willingness to listen to constructive feedback, many of us could learn a thing or two from your reaction, thanks,
Gunny
"So since we know that there is no genie, I will ask you this."
1. What sorts of things make you feel disrespected?
not being heard, not acknowledging a statement, not valuing my opinion, disregarding a desire or request, ignoring me, valuing someone else over me (these are just some)
2. What sorts of things make you feel rejected?
Not wanting to spend time with me, not including me in plans,not asking for my input, unwanted, that I may not be good enough, smart enough, good looking enough (sounds pretty childish don't it)
3. Why do you react with anger when these things happen?
The one thing that I came up with and bothers me is that I want the person to fear me. Now that is pretty sad because the last thing I would want to do is hurt anyone. But I guess that is it.
The other thought I had is that it is easier to feel angry than to feel anything else, especially fear as to how the other person will respond. If that makes sense
Rough stuff
I am curious...
You said you had a reaction to my initial comments.
Did they make you feel disrespected?
While that was not the intent, I can see how that could have happened, I tend to be a little blunt.
Cat your post threw me off balance. First because it came out of nowhere and secondly because of the content.
My initial reaction was to intellectualize it. I knew you were trying for me to gain insight. But that was drowned by an overwhelming sense of humiliation follow E by some anger. Hence my cheeks getting hot. Best DBing martial arts move ever. So it is a bit clearer how my brain works
I did try and connect the dots of my childhood and my current behavior. And they correlate. Once I have a better grasp of the above I will post my history here so it makes sense to others.
Thanks again hope my answer makes sense
greetings rick
and as an aside, thanks for that last comment cat04. that was kind of you.
in the spirit of divorce busting, i would like to say this: honesty with self and others is indeed a difficult thing. it seems part of the human condition that much of the feedback we receive about ourselves is negative - pointing out what is wrong. and even people who sincerely care about us can do this. sometimes such feedback is accurate, sometimes it is not. sometimes it is helpful, sometimes it is not.
and then there's our self-feedback or self-perception. if it's true that many of us have a hard time seeing our faults, it's equally true that most of us have a hard time seeing our virtues as well.
so what is it we want to grow, both within ourselves or others? if it is our strengths, assets and virtues then i would say that's what we pay attention to and build. the more we build those things, the more the other parts of us, the so called faults and weaknesses, die by extinction and lack of attention. as MWD would say, whatever you want to see more of, pay attention to.
in that spirit, i ask you rick, or any other contributor, to look at what has grown and what has changed for the better. what is it you have done that is demonstrably true because it involves some kind of observable behavior? to use a very simple example, you started going to church, no? or you can now interact with your W in more conscious and proactive ways, no? these are things you are building - like going to a gym.
anger is an impulse, a reaction. understanding where it comes from is not a bad thing if it helps you translate that into a purpose - treating people more kindly for instance. furthermore, i would agree with cat04 that when you work on a GAL strategy and other esteem building activities, it helps build your internal resources and this helps quiet the fears that stimulate anger. and it's also helpful to learn to manage yourself when you do feel angry so that you don't harm self or others. just understand, in my opinion, that anger is an impulse you will experience at times throughout your life if you are human. and to me, the internal feeling of anger is not pathological or wrong per se. its what happens after you experience it that really matters. yes, by all means - for your sake - do anything you can that reduces the experience of anger - your life will no doubt be better for that. but don't drive yourself crazy with self-judgment just because the impulse of anger occurs within you.
so....if you are interested, how about doing an inventory of those things you have done in the last 3 months that reflect progress - as measured by observable behaviors, large and small?
oys2
oys2, I think your point is well-taken. And I didn;t see the previous posts calling for self-judgment but rather self-awareness. Anger is not a "bad" emotion. What can be negative is the way the anger is expressed. Anger is the signal that something is wrong and looking deeper and dealing with those feelings can make for a happier more in control person.
We get in trouble when we ignore what the anger is trying to tell us.
Hi oys2 hope what I said did not come across as too confusing. I was trying to explain my reaction to something and what feelings I felt. Paying attention to me and my behavior at this level is pretty new and it keeps the focus on me and not W.
I agree that anger is normal . I too have normal anger some of the time. But what got me here is the explosive volcano in my heart that erupts from time to time ,that is the issue. That is not normal.
So their intervention helped me understand and hopefully others will understand their anger better. And how that anger manifests itself in their own lives.
I llike the idea of taking inventory. Will think about those things.
Thank you again
Ps the walking shoe thing had to be explained to me. Lol
and as an aside, thanks for that last comment cat04. that was kind of you.
Oys,
While I am not 100% positive what comment you were referring to, I am going to venture a guess that it was my comment about my intention behind my post to Rick.
He was quite right in his assesment that it was crafted in a way to throw him off balance. To elicit a specific response.
Not to be mean spirited, but to make him stop in his tracks and really think about where he was, where he is, and where he wants to go.
In the sprirt of DB, I will disagree with you. Honesty is not a difficult thing if we want to be self aware.
It is the most important part of communication that we too often choose to avoid. Because it often hurts. Because it isn't the "nice" thing to say all of the time. Because it requires us to look at ourselves, it asks us to judge ourselves, and it always asks us if we can do better than we are doing.
It is the lack of honesty with ourselves and our inability to communicate in honest ways (which can be done with kindness) that has gotten a lot of us here.
Based upon my experience with abusive situations, which is extensive, negative qualities do NOT just die by extinction from lack of attention, simply because we focus on our virtues.
They get buried. Waiting, like landmines, for something to detonate them if they are not unearthed and destroyed.
SBT, works well as an initial response to those negative things. It allows us to become aware of them, make changes that isolate the behaviors and begin the external changing, allowing us the time to do the digging and the internal work that will kill them permanently.
Rick, exhibits a learned behavior. That means he has to unlearn it. NOT ignore it. He will have to examine it and learn to find forgivness of himself (not judgement and guilt)(and for the people he learned it from) for doing what he could with the tools he had at the time. Then he can continue to move forward with his new tools, which will require him to do better.
Anger is a reaction. It is an emotion not an impulse. It masks the true emotion and gives us permission to not always behave well, because we are "human."
Yes we will all feel anger at times. It truly is what we do with it and what we learn from it that counts.
If we allow it to control us, then it can and too often does become pathalogical.
That is evidenced daily when we turn on the news, the internet, open a newspaper.
Anger is destructive.
To gloss over it, as if it is not important, is a mistake.
For me, DB and SBT, isn't simply about busting a divorce. It is about becoming a better person. It is about being able to look in the mirror, and either know that I am always giving my best, or being able to face myself and say "you need to do better" and then having the guts and the tools to do so.
"My initial reaction was to intellectualize it. I knew you were trying for me to gain insight. But that was drowned by an overwhelming sense of humiliation followed by some anger."
I have been thinking about this^^^^for the last 2 days. Been having nighmares, maybe I am hitting some REM sleep which is a good thing.
Before the feeling of humiliation something else happened. When Cat brought me back to August and that I was the same person. That trigger an avalanche of thoughts.
This is what I remember hearing/thinking. I heard her say that I was full of crapp, lying, have made no progress, a complete failure. The thought of being a failure is what casued me to feel humiliated. This all happened at record speed. But Cat never said anything of those things?
I think this is the line of progression for me. So there would be 2 reactions for me when the above happened.
1- I would immediatetly react and express my displeasure with what I thought the person meant.
2- Store it away in my angry tank and brush it off.
Makes sense?
no problem rick! i was not confused....i understand your reaction of humiliation. i would have felt shame - so maybe that's the same.
we can all agree that anger - as manifested by behavior - can be harmful to self and others. we can all agree it is worth learning to manage it externally and internally. and if cat04's ideas help you with this, more power to you both! it's a good discussion if it has stimulated something that you find useful or helpful.
you are here, by definition, because you want to save your marriage. and by extension, you want to improve yourself. my main point, which i will try to state very simply, is that self-improvement works best when you feel like you are succeeding. that means you need to make an honest effort, achieve results and then measure yourself with a fair and realistic yardstick. i think you are succeeding, rick. and that's my main point.
oys2
oh, and by the way, i think you are a very good man, too!
oys2
It's one of those fleeting things that comes and goes from my thoughts... stays long enough to make an impact and then disappears and I forget what the "point was...
Every once in a while, I am reminded, and I find someone who might benefit from it:
"
You can't know you've arrived until you've decided where you are going."
I had forgotten what my goals were. I hadn't written them down, likely because I wasn't sure or clear on what they were. Sometimes, my life's like that... I finally stop, look around and go... "oh yeah! This is where I wanted to be." It can be bliss sometimes, living in my brain...
Anyhow, I realized (or remembered) I had two, very certain goals:
+ I wanted to feel like my W wasn't controlling me any more
and conversely
+ I wanted to feel like I was in control of my life
I just checked and noticed that I now have that!
How will you know when you've
arrived, Rick?
@Cat and Mach thanks for the education
@Oys2 thanks for the kind words
@Kaffe I don't have an answer to that great question but hit me up in a few
I must put me aside for a bit. While eating dinner W tells me her brother gets his surgery tomorrow. At the same time MIL calls and W explains to her the prep I went through for my coniscopy she actually says Rick did that. After she hangs up with MIL she begins to ask me tons of questions. My father fought colon cancer since 2004 and died May 24 of last year. I really feel for her and BIL. He is only 49 . I answer as vaguely as I could because I don't know the outcome. I offer to help in anyway and I meant. It. I even reminded her about our 81yo niegbhor who had a colostomy bag and open a restaurant last year and is cancer free. She did not remember. I asked if she spoke to brother she tells she hasn't cause she does not know his number? Come on really???
While she asks me all Of these I just thought that when I was going through it she was not supportive. Or did not felt it. I hope I did this right and I hope he makescit.
I read what I just wrote and sound resentful. I admit it. Give me time
Actually...
It sounds like you handled it beautifully. Be there for her if she needs you.
Keep your lips zipped and be her support.
Show her the new Rick, or at least the softer Rick.
I am sorry to hear about your BIL. Will keep you all in my prayers.
good morning rick
i am thinking about your post of yesterday morning.
sometimes i am able to predict what will meet people's needs. sometimes i am not able to (and i can be so wrong!). it's a lot easier when people give me feedback. then i am not guessing. unfortunately, there is still this defensive part of myself that has strong preferences for the manner in which feedback is given. intellectually, i know that even my worst enemy can tell me valuable things about myself. or someone can go on an angry rant and there may well be some truth in what they say. yet, there are times when it's just hard to see that because i am also an emotional creature that goes into a form of arousal when i feel attacked, judged or criticized. i truly believe i am learning to manage this better and better, yet i would be lying if i said it's always easy.
i also know any relationship i am in is going to work better with feedback, especially constructive two-way feedback. so....here is what i liked about your post. you reported an honest reaction to a previous post, you reported your feelings about it (including vulnerable feelings besides anger), you took ownership of how you interpreted the message by using the phrase "i heard...", you were mature enough to recognize that what you heard and the sender said/meant may not be the same. furthermore, you did not question the good intentions of the sender, you did not attack the sender, you did not blame, you did not deflect responsibility.
as a result, and excuse me for making assumptions here, but i think they are reasonable, a person with good intentions that supports you was able to receive this valuable information.
how has this process worked within your marriage? is there opportunity - even at this stage - to use this type of skill in giving or receiving feedback? perhaps at this stage it's more about you listening and receiving. maybe your W gives feedback in the way we all hope for, maybe she doesn't. it would be interesting to hear some background here.
hope all is well,
oys2
Hi Oys2. I will attempt to answer your question and that of Kaffe's.
The recent realization for me is that I have used anger instead of the other feelings that one can think/feel. As Cat suggested, it is a learned behavior. Some was passed down by our father/mother and reinforced by many other variables that I have just become aware of. It is absolutetly essential especially at this stage of my M to use what I have learned. The truth is that I have felt anger even when there was no love involved. Such as in work but to a lesser extent. So I have to become comfortable when someone says or does something that makes me feel less than. I have to allow myself to feel disappointed about myself. I think the key word is to really allow yourself to feel that feeling and not put it out with anger.
For me I think anger was a more acceptable behavior if someone said I was stupid or something like that. It would not have been ok to just say, I agree I am a dumbass. And anger is less painfull than feeling low or bad about myself.
That is what has been going on in my head latetly. The other realization is that my father (and to some extent my mother) was admired by our social circle. He was viewed as an honorable man. People respected him even tho he had some serious outburst and they were very often. I am now wondering if they were just scared sh!!tless of him? Possibly. When you say you become defensive I think that is the same. Not wanting to feel criticized because it hurts. So you fight back even if they are making sense.
My W rarely gave me feedback or I was just not listening because I was to busy being right. Or she was afraid that I would get angry. All of them might be the case. Maybe all of them were the case. Hope I made some sense. This is very new to me.
@Kaffe
My goal is to no longer feel anger at its current level
I will know that I have arrived when I can automatically allow myself to feel all of the other wonderful feelings. And when my internal feeling extinguisher goes empty.
Hope it makes sense? Still not very clear to me.
The fork in the road that we all come to....
Is to either accept that we were that way, and take an active role in changing that...
Or we can choose to become a victim, and let our past dictate what our future is.
You have chosen to face this head on. And I applaud you for that.
Rick, anger is an emotion. To not experience it, isn't possible.
The bigger thing is ...
How you CHOOSE to deal with anger when it comes your way.
Identifying those triggers, and removing them will allow you to deal with anger in a way that endears you , instead of crucifying you.
You have a great start on that.
I guess my questions would be.....
How do you envision yourself moving past this ?
What steps would you like to see yourself taking ?
How will you know when you get there ?????
@Mach I am not avoiding your questions just thinking about the answers really hard.
Update on BIL
W was to have taken ILs to visit him at hospital around noon time. I called to make sure D was home safe at around 2 pm. W answers the phone and I was stunned. I said sorry just making sure D was home safe. I didn't think you would be home. She tells me that they were told not to come as he would be sedated. I ok thanks and hung up.
Got home from work and as I got my evening attire W says BILs surgery went well. He did not need a colostomy bag as it was far up high. That is a good thing. Than she says that the tumor was 2.5". She asked me if that was too
big? I said if you can't feed a family of four with it it is not too big. (kidding ok)
I said that I did not think so but was not sure. My dad's tumor was 2.5 kilos. She asked some stuff but I really did not know and said so. I just asked if the cancer had spread to other organs. She did not know. We sat to eat and we Said one or two words. They are visiting him tomorrow.
Rick- You posted on 2tp's thread about the fact that you have moved into a new phase of detachment where you are not at all focused or obsessed with your W at all. Can you elaborate a little more on your perspective as I am back and forth on detaching and then obsessing. It's quite frustrating.
Thanks!
@Mach1
I am going to try an anwser the questions you posted. If it makes no sense I'll try again. I have been thinking about it but there is still some confusion in my head.
How do you envision yourself moving past this ?
I think that I need to continue to discover what makes me tick. For example I never knew how afraid I was of my W disapproving of me. Either by what I was doing or whatever. So instead of having a mature discussion about how I felt I would just shut it until I got pissed. Even tho she may not have said or done anything for me to think that way. So I think I do alot of self talk which leads to me to act. I am paying attention to what I tell myself.
What steps would you like to see yourself taking ?
I would like to continue focusing on me and not so much on W or others. I would like to get a handle of when I want to let my anger get to me and have an outburst. Because they way I see it now is that I wanted to be enraged if that makes sense.
How will you know when you get there ?????
I think that I would have arrived at my goal when I can feel angry without really having much of a reaction maybe a red face. Also when I can feel rejected, disappointed, disrespected and so on without having to defend myself. Just be ok with what ever I think or is said to my about me.
For example when I got home W and D had gone to visit BIL. But I was worried because I was not told that D was going. I TM D wondering were she was and she did not answer. So I started worrying, than thinking how eefed up it was that W did not tell me she was taking D and started getting pissed but I stopped myself. Saw the line of progression. So I stopped panicking and played some MW3. D TM me about an hour later saying she was fine. That is when I realized she had gone to the hospital to visit. 1st time alone without W and D. Felt lonely at 1st but I adjusted. They came home after I went to sleep.
This morning W made me breakfast which she has not done in a while. I thanked her. Than she tells me she was going to the barn I just said ok and kept going to where I was going. She did not tell me how the visit with BIL was or how he is doing and I won't ask. Hope I made some sense
Would you say that you are an introverted personality or an extrovert ?
Would you say that your wife is an introvert ? or an extrovert ?
Your Daughter ??
I am an extrovert and W is an introvert. My D is also an introvert with adults but has lots of friends.
Ahhh....
Since we have been talking about communication styles, and triggers for you that leave you in a reactive state ( and not very good at it BTW )
I wanna throw something out to you...Cap'n Therapissed....
My x was an extrovert, very outgoing ( Italian, you know what I mean ). Over the years, I had patterned myself to dealing with myself in terms of communicating with her. I am somewhat an introvert . So the only way I really ever expressed myself, or interpreted myself in the relationship, was what I knew.
I dealt with her like she was an introvert, because that is the way I communicated. I didn't understand the difference in the two. Hell, maybe I would go as far as saying that I didn't know there was a different way.
When we would talk, HER answers were right there. I missed a LOT of them though, because I expected her to communicate with me on my terms. That led to a LOT of unfulfilled conversations from me. It led to frustrations because it was not the way I communicated. My frustration would lead to anger, much the same way you have described.
My partner now, is an introvert. And what I learned (the hard way ) , was the difference between the two communications styles. It wasn't until I met her, that it even occurred to me.
I would ask a question on my time, and expect an answer on my time.
What I learned was, that with communication with an introvert. (especially if you are an extrovert). We can ask questions on our time, although the answers come on their time. Sometimes I wait for days for an answer.
What I was doing with her was....I was asking these questions, and she would feel "pushed" for an answer, because she wasn't ready. And in time, she would feel over run, because the questions would stack up in her brain. One after another, before she could answer the first one....
This also led to some very frustrating times, until I learned to ask one thing...then wait for the answer. I pour a tall glass of STFU, until her answers come to her.
What this did, was allow me to step back, and relieve a lot of frustration on my end, because I was eliminating my expectations.
I removed MY triggers for frustration turning towards anger at her....by simply recognizing and removing those expectations.
Just something to think about.....
I saw that in your post this morning...
^^^^^^^^That is exactly how we communicated. I would ask her a question and would either get a blank stare or a I dunno. And my questions weren't life or death questions. But other times she would answer right away. When she hesitated I felt that she was hiding something and I got frustrated. Goof point.
So the lesson here is "don't marry an Italian"
@Mach gonna make the Cap.n Therapissed my screen name. Lol
Self-Worth
Day 66
On a scale of one to ten, with one being "no confidence in myself whatsoever" and ten being "completely confident in myself," rate your current level of self-worth.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
This number has likely lowered since the divorce process began. Having your self-worth threatened by another individual, especially someone you trusted, can be debilitating. Your mind probably plays tricks on you, and that is Satan's influence
Got this^^^^from the divorce care daily email. Exactly how I am feeling today. Guess I am a 5 today.
There's some food for thought: how is my confidence level? I haven't given it much thought. It's certainly not high, but it isn't very low... but 5 just sounds optimistic to me right now.
Rick - glad you're at least at the water-line!
On a scale of one to ten, with one being "no confidence in myself whatsoever" and ten being "completely confident in myself," rate your current level of self-worth.
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
Life is about perspective buddy....
Look at the bright side...
I'm sure you scored way higher on the "ugly" scale....
: )
Hey Rick,
Just checking in, looks like you are doing pretty well, enjoying this weather?
Not much new to report for me, status quo. Hope all is well,
Lol the ugly scale goes from handsome to super handsome. So I am good either way.
I attended divorce care tonite. The young guy came in tears but said nothing. He sat next to me. They showed a tape about healing. He and the girl next to him sobbed the whole time. Heart breaking. I did not stay for the 2nd half but he followed me outside. Tells me that he met with his L today and maybe D on Wednesday. Too bad he is not open to DBing. I really tried but he is very resistant. I think for those who won't "Drop the gun" this will be more difficult. Don't remember who posted that for me here early on. But I get it now.
Stop defending yourself and listen. Look at patterns of behaviors and see what sounds true. When more than one person tells you that there is something about you that irks them, listen. They are on to something.
In 4 weeks I too will be in court. But I hope to deal with this as a strong, confident and dignified man that I know I can be.
W said happy birth day to me this morning. I said thank you. Came home an hour early just to hang and play some MW3. Needed to clear my head. It than hit me D never came out of her room to hug me and wish me a happy birth day. That really hurt. I may have been a crappy H but father to her never. I am here because I chose to be here. I am tired and don't know what W is saying to her. I am mostly gone working and don't see her all day. The old me would have walked and said ef it. That is how I was treated. But this is who I am today. I don't get it.
Happy Birthday, Rick!
Go knock on your D's door and say, "Hey, what's up? You don't even wish your dear old Dad and happy birthday?" and give her a big hug, tell her you'll take her out for ice cream or something for your birthday. Don't let others ruin your day.
Thinking of you!
Dont take it so personal that your D didnt wish you Happy Bday. She is 15. Even if George Clooney was her dad she would think he was a dork and would forget to tell him Happy Birthday
Happy Birthday Rick!
I want to thank you for suggesting that I read your thread. I can relate so much with you and am learning a lot about my own anger issues.
Thank you for also being so open and candid. Your courage in facing this head-on is a source of inspiration for me as I fight with some of the same demons myself.
Even though it's your birthday, you are giving me a gift.
Happy Birthday Rick, if this years one is tough,take heart that next years b'day will be better. Winston Churchill said, "When you are going through hell, keep going!" You won't be in it forever.
Daughters at that age are hard, she's going through her own pain as well probably. Most people I know that have split up their kids come around and end up being more loving and caring towards both parents than they had before, for now all I would do about your daughter is keep loving her, it will come back to you eventually.
What made yesterday difficult is that many at work asked me several times what W had planeed for me. Most don't know my sitch so I was vague or just walked away. But I survived.
The last couple of days I have been struggling internally. My controlling side has been kicking my ass. I have learned through this that I do not like people telling me what to do or controlling me. Since my W is in total control over the D, and court date is very near, well you can imagine. I am really trying to let go but it is not easy. I am not acting or feeling angry, the opposite, feeling some depression.
Irrational thoughts have also been revolving in my head. I know they are irrational. I know life without W will be fine and maybe even great. But I am not there yet. At least I had a great morning with D. Made her breakfast and drove her to school. She took a pic of her snake, the thing is getting huge.
"I am really trying to let go but it is not easy. I am not acting or feeling angry, the opposite, feeling some depression."I'm right there with you Rick! Feeling the very same emotions as you!
"At least I had a great morning with D. Made her breakfast and drove her to school. She took a pic of her snake, the thing is getting huge."Are you sure your D isn't sneaking some of those fantastic breakfast meals to her snake?
Just got a text from the young man from Divorce Care. He went to court today it said "I'm divorced".I feel pretty bad for him.
Hey Rick,
Happy Birthday. Sorry to hear about your up and down anxiety. This is probably normal as you approach the court date. Pretty soon it will be over and you will deal with the consequences, however it works out. You are a strong guy, this too shall pass, believe me, I have already experienced some of it!
It smells like Geritol in here....you should light a candle or something.
Oh right....It was your BD yesterday....
Slide another bead on your abacus.......??????
What is your number today ?
And not your age, your Self-Worth scale....
Lol you must be talking bout gunny. I am 10 always have and always will.
"I am really trying to let go but it is not easy. I am not acting or feeling angry, the opposite, feeling some depression."
I'm right there with you Rick! Feeling the very same emotions as you!
Maybe it's our time of the month as I have been really struggling these past few days as well. Their is safety in #'s right?
Say we got your back. Yes I think the ups and downs and the questionings are normlal. I am at a stage where what matters most is me. Not fully there yet. But been thinking that if I fell in love again how would I be different? Will she accept my old behaviors? Will I accept her unconditionally? Just full of questions but they do not need to be answered now. I am still trying to wrap my brain around the being happy is a do it yourself job. So the more you post the clear er things will become. Even if they sound trivial to you,
I guess I been down the last few days. Was just not paying attention. Today I'm ok. Really trying to pay attention and take care of me. Doing things that I like. I have even been flurting with females( not to do anything with them) It is something that I never have done. TBH I am very shy with women.
W last night came home from work later than usual due to flurries. She seemed extra angry didn't even say hi. This morning the same super cold. Did not even say bye when she drove D to school. The one thing I noticed is that it bothers me less and less. From a clinical aspect I can see how much energy she must put into maintaining that wall. Must be really hard and alot of work.
Hey Rick, are you sure you aren't Rick1956? (you and my H share the same name) The more I read of your sitch, the more I think we were in the same marriage.
I was depressed, angry and resentful a lot in my M. I could have been a WAW but just kept thinking H would finally "get it" and change. I didn't see that I had the power to change things by changing me. I was too wrapped up in his behavior being the cause of all my troubles.
Yes, it was exhausting maintaining that wall.
I have learned so much here.
Oh no is that you honey????? I knew I was getting dbed. Lol
Rick, have you read the 5LL book? Not knowing the other's LL was a major issue in my R.
See ya after work, dearie and I'll have that wall extra-fortified!
Rick - I've found it's always been a little harder for me this time of year for me to upbeat than it is in some of the other seasons. It sounds like you're turning the corner after the past few days. Can you think of any activities you can do to GAL?
JB weekdays are hard because I'm gone most the day. Weekends I'm good. Well I visited a client this afternoon and the visit ended early. So I headed home. It is kind of early so decided to hit the bay. I am looking at the most awesome sun set. Never paid attention to one. On top there are. 2 other guys in their cars alone doing the same. Wonder if they too are GAling?
W text me for the 1st time in my life just now tells me B home at 7:15 will cook than. I don't know if I should answer?
Doesn't sound to me like there was a question in her text. So, what is there to respond to.
Or... You could text her hot digitty dog! And see what she says?
Lol 2. Seriously even when I thought she liked me she never ever TM and rarely called to talk about the earth going round and round. Hopefully she won't poison my dinner. If I don't post for a while, well.........
Maybe your W and your D cooked you a gourmet meal. A last supper of sorts.....
Will start a new thread tomorrow when I am at my pc.
W just told me that 87 y/o FIL is getting surgery and she was at their Home buying groceries today. she knows how much I love him. I know she is having her own scares latetly. But common how much can we endure? Her world is falling apart as fast as mine did last year. But there is nothing I can do. Told her if there is anything I can do to help to let me know. Really sad right now.
Sorry about your FIL, when it rains it pours.
Only rainbows after rain though!