I thought I would start my new thread off by posting the poem "IF" by Rudyard Kipling. The poem was originally written for men, but has been, and can be modified for use by women, children etc. After having read many posts on this board by people who sometimes become discouraged or ambivalent about DBing, in the sense that they are doing all for naught, or being taken advantage of, my perspective is that we do what we do because it is the right thing to do, becauSe we eventually want to be able to look ourselves in the mirror and say we have given our all, and have fought the good fight. We can find peace and solace in this fact, so...
IF
IF YOU CAN KEEP YOUR HEAD WHEN ALL ABOUT YOU
ARE LOSING THEIRS AND BLAMING IT ON YOU
IF YOU CAN TRUST YOURSELVES, WHEN ALL MEN DOUBT YOU,
BUT MAKE ALLOWANCE FOR THEIR DOUBING TOO
IF YOU CAN WAIT, AND NOT BE TIRED BY WAITING
OR BEING LIED ABOUT, DONT DEAL IN LIES
OR BEING HATED, DONT GIVE WAY TO HATING
AND YET DONT LOOK TOO GOOD NOR TALK TOO WISE
IF YOU CAN DREAM, AND NOT MAKE DREAMS YOUR MASTER
IF YOU CAN THINK, AND NOT MAKE THOUGHTS YOUR AIM
IF YOU CAN MEET WITH TRIUMPH AND DISASTER
AND TREAT THOSE TWO IMPOSTERS JUST THE SAME
IF YOU CAN BEAR TO HEAR THE TRUTH YOUVE SPOKEN
TWISTED BY KNAVES TO MAKE A TRAP FOR FOOLS
OR WATCH THE THINGS YOU GAVE YOUR LIFE TO BROKEN
AND STOOP, AND BUILD THEM UP WITH WORN OUT TOOLS
IF YOU CAN MAKE ONE HEAP OF ALL YOUR EARNINGS
AND RISK IT ON ONE TURN OF PITCH AND TOSS
AND LOSE, AND START AGAIN AT YOUR BEGINNINGS
AND NEVER BREATHE A WORD ABOUT YOUR LOSS
IF YOU CAN FORCE YOUR HEART AND NERVE AND SINEW
TO SERVE YOUR TURN LONG AFTER THEY ARE GONE
AND SO HOLD ON WHEN THERE IS NOTHING IN YOU
EXCEPT THE WILL WHICH SAYS TO THEM "HOLD ON"
IF YOU CAN WALK WITH CROWDS AND KEEP YOUR VIRTUE
OR WALK WITH KINGS-NOR LOSE THE COMMON TOUCH
IF NEITHER FOES NOR LOVING FRIENDS CAN HURT YOU
IF ALL MEN COUNT WITH YOU, BUT NONE TOO MUCH
IF YOU CAN FILL THE UNFORGIVING MINUTE
WITH SIXTY SECONDS WORTH OF DISTANCE RUN
YOURS IS THE EARTH, AND EVERYTHING THATS IN IT
AND-WHICH IS MORE-YOU WILL BE A MAN MY SON!
Nice positive post, Gunny!
Like it Gunny hope you are well my friend
Thanks for this Gunny, spoke right to my need of the moment. Being put through the ringer at the moment, words twisted and thrown at me, 15 year old mistakes tossed out as if they happened today and I was thinking it was time to throw in the towel.....but you reminded me that its not about what she does.... its about me doing what I know is right so not only can I look in the mirror but I can look my kids in the eyes and know that I didn't quit on their family, that I did all that was in my power to do to create a new and improved M with their mother. Thank You!
Dear Gunny!
Absolutely great timing!
I hope all is well with you. I have been ssleeping better. I have been sticking with my NO CAFFINE AFTER 2 PM rule, in addition to all my other rules. It sure helps.
I also am getting to be pretty good at meditation. Ramps my overactive brain down!
I think I will print that poem out in a nice font and replace something on my wall with it. I think I have some parchment paper in my stash!
Aloha,
Wendy
Thanks for this Gunny, spoke right to my need of the moment. Being put through the ringer at the moment, words twisted and thrown at me, 15 year old mistakes tossed out as if they happened today and I was thinking it was time to throw in the towel.....but you reminded me that its not about what she does.... its about me doing what I know is right so not only can I look in the mirror but I can look my kids in the eyes and know that I didn't quit on their family, that I did all that was in my power to do to create a new and improved M with their mother. Thank You!
Ditto.(Mr. Mr you took the words right out of my mouth.)
Thanks Gunny.
Gunny, wanted to check in with you. Hope you're doing well. I may have come within 5 miles or less or your W yesterday on my road trip with my S.
Hi Gunny, was wondering about you.
Thanks for posting the poem. Much needed inspiration.
Hello all, thank you for the kind comments, hope you all are doing well.
Quick update, w called me at work yesterday to tell me our dogs operation went well and they did not find any cancer, both tumors were benign. Great relief! She has done a great job taking care of him, and I appreciated her letting me know the second she found out.
No r talk, actually, I never talked to her, she left a message and I emailed her back.
Sunny and cold today, beautiful day!
I'm so happy for you that your dog is cancer free!
Sunny and warmish here!
Congrats on your pup, Gunny. Every ray of sunshine helps!
Good news about the dog. Our Lab has a huge growth on her chest but the vet said it was nothing.
We got some snow here by the ocean yuk. Hope you have great weekend buddy
Morning rick,
Glad to hear the lab is ok. I was up in the mountains of PA this weekend, about 6 inches there, 0 degree temps, great weather for cutting wood. Had a great time.
Enjoying your posts, you are in a much better place right now than you have been for a while, that comes from your working hard, congrats!
Gunny saw you checked in on me. How are you doing my friend? You have not been posting alot latetly. Is there any communication with your W?
Hope you have a great day it is pretty nice out there. It is time for my walk.
Hey rick,
Kind of in the lurking mode. Started back to school last night, first class for credit in 21 years. Last time was in 1991, finishing my masters in urban planning, when the war started, half way through my last class, the dean said that the law on the books(which hadnt changed since the korean war, which was the last time reserves in huge numbers were mobilized) gave me the option of taking the grade that I had in the class at the time of mobilization, or coming back after the war to finish the class. Needless to say, I took the grade.
What a shock last night. All assignments are done on line and submitted to the prof on line. Everything is on the computer, the kids all have their ipods and cell phones going during class, they are fidgety, almost all are there because they are required to be, etc, etc.
I am there for sh%ts and giggles, taking classes for fun, edification, learning. Like being dipped in ice cold water, a wake up call.lol! But I enjoyed it. Will keep you posted!
Thanks for checking in
Gunny, glad to hear you're doing OK. Taking classes sounds like a good GAL activity!
Gunny, just checking in. I hope you're busy with class.
Hi Gunny you have been quiet. Hope you are well my friend.
Yes, gunny, hope your absence from us means you are busy GALing!
Hello everyone,
Thanks for the checkins, yes, I have been real busy with the classes, work, church,support groups, brother being deployed to AFgan, etc. No excuses though. I try to get on here every other day or so, but sometimes I dont get a chance to keep up.
Nothing really new on my front, w emailed me today to see if I watched the game, and to tell me her address had changed, she is renting the house next to her sister, and she has a new nephew born on the 25th. We are discussing tax issues. I will be moving to a new apartment on the 25th of this month in the same town that I am presently living.
Hope you all are doing well, I follow all of your sitch's with great interest and am always thinking about you all, again, thanks for checking in.
Thanks for the update gunny. I'm glad to hear you're keeping busy and you're spending time around other people. Hang in there, man.
Hello everyone, hope all is well with everyone on the board. Have been checking out everyones posts, seems like a lot of us are slowing down on our entries, could be the mid winter doldrums.
Update on my sitch. Had two pretty pleasant interactions with my w via email last week, talking about things in general, taxes, our dog, the winter weather, etc. She let me know that she had rented a house next door to her sister, and that she liked having a house. We had spent our whole marriage living in a condo, less maintenance, etc.
The tone of her messages were more friendly than they have been since she left. I think she is feeling pretty good about life, she has a new job, new house, possibly new boyfriend, etc.
I have been very upbeat lately, but have had some very slight anxiety over the last two weeks, I am preparing to move to a smaller, less expensive place and have been going through all of our things(she left the bulk of her belongings behind, cheaper than renting a uhaul. I have had to face old memories, looking at items that we got throughout our whole marriage, little trinkets, dodad, etc. Furniture, bed, dishes, etc that I will have no room for and she said she no longer wanted. Only one way to describe it, sad, sad, sad.
I dont begrude her wanting to be happy, its just that I
Sorry to hear thatGunny..But you do not really know how she is feeing. She is communicating so keep hope alive.
Oh gunny, that's too bad. But maybe going through those things will help you put the past to rest.
(((G)))
sorry, got cut off there, Happy Valentines Day to all, keep up the good thoughts, enjoy everyone!
Hang in there, Gunny. We don't know what the future holds! Be strong.
Just curious, how was Valentines Day for everyone? Did you think a great deal about your spouse, or was it basically just another day?
Half expected I might hear from w, but never did. Actually, I would have been really surprised, after all, why would she want to think about the day after being the one to walk away.
Anyway, hope everyones day was good!!
Hey Gunny. It has always been a low key day for us. It was the same this time, unremarkable. Just bought my D some chocolates and a coffee mug. You sound down my friend? Did you start divorce care groups again?
Gunny you just saw my post about the WAW at work. She was 100% done, she even told me during the summer that she could not wait to date other guys. She took H off her insurance and filed for child support. So there is hope my friend. Just be patient and keep the focus on you.
Hello everyone, time for a little journaling.
Moved out of my condo yesterday into a much smaller structure that can best be described as a bungalow. The rent is much more reasonable, about half of what I was paying for my old place.
In june of 2011, my w and I finally sold our one bedroom condo that we had lived in for 13 years. I had bought it in 1998 right before we met, and using the equity from it I was able to purchase outright a cabin in the Pennsy woods, plus buy back my active duty time with the Marines (most gov pension systems allow you to do that, and I am a county employee). I bought it at the bottom of the market and had enough equity left over at the sale that I was able to realize a small profit. After all the years that she wanted to move into a bigger place, we finally moved into a two bedroom place in June of 2011. It was two weeks later that she dropped the bomb.
So, now she is living in Ohio, renting a house next to her sister, and seemingly very happy. I, on the other hand, have been forced to downsize to a bungalow, which reminds me of 30 years ago, when I was a struggling graduate student living in cramped quarters in a not so nice part of town. Even though everyone who visits the place say it is "charming" I cant help being a little angry in that it seems I have gotten the worse end of the deal.
Oh well, guess weve all been there, just ranting.
On a happier note, got a nice birthday card from w yesterday. Unexpected but nice.
Hope you all are doing well, am continuing to follow your sitchs with great interest!
Good to hear from you Gunny. New surroundings bring new opportunities. 1/2 the rent means more money in your pocket to do things that you might not otherwise have been able to do before.
Live it up a little!
Oh, and Happy Birthday!
Happy belated bday buddy. How far are you from your last place? Oh yes and the canal?
thanks 2 for the wishes, I will have a cold one with you in mind, hope you are well.
Rick, thanks for the bd wishes. New place is only 3 miles from the old one, 3 miles closer to work, 3 miles farther from canal. Not too bad. How are things with you?
Thanks for chiming in all,
Gunny
Happy belated Birthday MARINE.
Awww gunny, your wife and that move to Ohio. Who does that? (I moved away as soon as I could...sorry jb)
Great news on being able to buy back your time. We of a certain age understand the importance of that.
Happy Birthday!
Happy belated birthday, gunny!!
(I moved away as soon as I could...sorry jb)
No need to apologize maybe I just can't get away.
Happy Belated Birthday Gunny.
Maybe your w is happier.. maybe not. Who knows? Who cares?
Your feelings of anger make sense and it seems like you aren't planning on staying focused on them.
Good for you!
Keep on Keeping on!
Thanks everyone for the BD wishes. My best to all!
hello everyone,
Not too much new here. Hard to beleive we are already in March of this year. Just wondering, how have you all dealt with the urge to start dating? I still love my w, but, am at the point where I would enjoy the company of a female, not so much for sex, but more for companionship. What have been some of your experiences?
Gunny
I didnt do it, but in my case my W was only gone for 2 weeks.
I have seen 2 different outcomes:
1. This happened to a relative: He posted an ad online, as soon as his now ex found out she sped to the D.
2. Another poster about a year ago. (I'm trying to remember his name). Started dating as soon as his W found out something clicked in her head and she dumped OM and ran back to him.
Ultimately every case is different. I think the biggest factor here is that it may give your W the last excuse she needs to truly let go. For me the risk was not worth it. Of course your circumstances are different. It has been a while.
While I wouldnt be surprised if your W ran to you after you start dating, I wouldn't count on it, and if you are doing it for that reason. Well you'll most likely be disappointed.
Gunny greenblue is correct. It is too soon my friend. I know the loneliness is though but embrace the singlehood for now. Cherished the good memories of your M. God will bring you a new W when he thinks you are ready. Have a great one.
Just me but, if I get to the point that I want to date, that would be a signal that I'm done.
Hello all,
Thanks for the feedback. If my s was still in the area, and I had any kind of interaction with her besides ocassional emails, things would be different. Since, chances are I will not see my s for sometime, if ever, it becomes very difficult to return night after night to an empty house.
I have always had a number of female friends, and have always felt more comfortable around women than men. I know the bottom line is I will know when I'm ready, but I also beleive that it is probably important not to shut myself off from potential relationships. I guess I feel that if my m is meant to be, than it will survive. Any new r would be for companionship, really not interested at this point in anything more, too complicated.
Oh well, just venting. As we know, sometimes it just gets very frustrating. The tone and tenor of my w recent emails has been very friendly, asking how the weather is here, how do I like my new place, etc, etc. Don't know if this is because she is content in her new life and it is reflected in her emails, or she is interested in at least developing a decent email correspondance. I tend to think it is alittle of both, either way, life goes on.
GAL activities are going strong, college classes are going well, meetings are keeping me busy, and work is good.
Hope you are all doing well, I always enjoy hearing from you all!!
Hey gunny, I guess you would go into the dating R with your expectations spelled out.
Gunny,
I have been separated for just a little longer than you and I understand.
Make sure you are not dating someone just to fill a void. If you dating to avoid an empty house, then you are not looking for companionship, you are looking for a relationship. In companionship, you still go home to an empty house, if sex is involved that just makes things more complicated and you are then in a relationship.
Enjoy your time alone. No one to gripe at you for doing this or not doing that. Work on you.
Fill the void with friends and family.
Just my 2 cents.
Gunny
This is not something I say to newbies, but I think your W may be gone long enough that you may be dealing with an indecisive WAW.
She may not want to be married to you, she may not want to divorce you. She could have a myriad of reasons.
Bottomline she hasn't ran back to you, or ran to divorce court.
The biggest loser here is of course the LBS, since you have been stuck in limbo.
So do you have a time limit, and an escape plan?
It doesn't have to be set in stone, but at least consider how long you will live like this. It also doesn't mean you will walk at an arbitrary calendar day.
It might be as simple as asking yourself every 30 days if you are ready to move on.
Hello Lady, Tested Metal(I like that one),Green Blue,
Thank you for your feedback. I am very conflicted. I realize that it would be unfair to me, and to anyone else to enter into a friendship/relationship with undefined boundries, but sometimes things are not cut and dried. You may enter into one with clear expectations of only being friends, but then you get used to having someone around, and you like their company. and then, well before you know it you are in a r. Tough stuff this being left behind.
So, I dont really have a time limit, as I said, I will just take each day as it comes, if my s decides somewhere down the road that she wants to begin at least a friendship then I will take it as it comes.
Thanks again for all your input, time to get back on the rollercoaster, or scrambler, or whatever it is!
So, heres my old man goes back to college story,
I am taking two classes this semester using the GI Bill. I am there for the fun of it, no pressure for grades, etc. I am really enjoying the classes and spend alot of the time looking at the students and listening to the professor ask students for the umpteenth time to put down their cell phone, I pad, etc. The last time I took classes 21 years ago, cell phones didnt exist, what a shock my first day of class.
Anyway, last tues we had a midterm. The professor passes out the test, and egads, its one of those fill in the ovals. Well, of course, I forgot to bring my reading glasses, so I have to hold the test about 4 feet away from my face to read the question, and then hold the answer sheet far enough away to pick out the right row and oval, then I have to use a sheet of paper to act as a ruler to keep the rows lined up so i dont fill in the wrong oval. Nightmarish! The other students must have gotten a good laugh, oh well, this getting older stuff is for the birds. lol!
Hi gunny,
I think you'll do the what's right for you about dating. You've been at this for a long time.
Hey Gunny. I saw a post regarding dating while going through this. A very wise poster answered it this way or I think. When you are trully ready to say good bye to your famiy, W and M you are ready. But if you have an ounce of hesitation and hope to return to theR. You are not.
Gunny, just checking in on you. I think you'll do the right thing and you'll know when it's the right time to date. I think when that angst about dating goes away, you're getting pretty close to the right time.
Hey Gunny!
I was pondering the dating question myself. And since we are the same age I will ask the tough question: How young is too young? I had a 26 year old good looking guy ask me out. (I think he might have forgotten his glasses, too.) I was flabergasted! I brushed him off, but am pretty sure he was just looking for a booty call.
I am not ready to date. But I can say I'm looking at the world around me differently now. I never used to check out if a guy was wearing a wedding band. Now I do look. Maybe I am just practicing my situational awareness more? Maybe I am wondering what the future holds. I certainly will have a whole different check list of what I consider acceptable should I fail at this DB.
Many on here write about not needing someone, liking to be alone. So I have been thinking about that. And I guess I just enjoy having a friend to hang around with.
So anyway, back to how young is too young...... I heard the formula is half your age plus 7. Of course I hear this from my H.
Aloha,
Wendy
Gunny, I am not ready. For now I am getting out more, practicing being friendly and making an effort to smile. I attempt to engage strangers and get a smile or a bit of friendly conversation. It is unfamiliar ground for me to traverse alone. Baby steps.
Digression: I will speak to my ophthalmologist to see if Lasik will help; for the other day I added laser grips to a weapons purchase simply to compensate.
Imagine my consternation when I sighted through the iron sights only to realize I could see the target clearly, but the front and rear sights were a total blur.
Semper Fidelis
Hey JB,
Welcome back. Saw that your trip went well. Thanks for the input, I think your words are right on.
Thanks Lady, I think you are right, although I have been out of the dating thing(like most of us), for a long time. Just going out with a female friend after my wife left was a way different experience
Hey Stunned, good to hear from you. Hate when that happens!
My brother just deployed to Bagram this week. Dropped him off at Dix last Monday. The amount of gear he was taking was amazing, much more then we ever had. The body armor they are wearing now is mind boggling, way, way more sophisticated then the plain old flack jackets we had!
Continue to lean forward my friend!
Semper Fidelis!
Hello Weniki,
Good question on the age thing. I have always dated women who were younger than me, usually by 6-10 years, but that was before I got married. For me, all things beging equal, I probably would not date anyone younger than 35, mostly because I dont know what we would talk about, they probably wouldnt know any of the old movie stars, music, or even history. Hiking and running can only take you so far, at the end of the day, they have to be able to carry on a conversation.
But I agree, it would be nice to have a 26 year old ask me out!!
Can't see it happening though, but you never know.
Hope you are well,
Gunny
So anyway, back to how young is too young...... I heard the formula is half your age plus 7. Of course I hear this from my H.
I just did the math. For me that comes out to be 29. Sweet!
I'm with you gunny - I don't know how practical that would be. Maybe starting a new family would be easier than merging two families? Oh well, it's not where I'm at right now. Just nice to think about when I'm at a low point.
JB 29 really? I think that formula is wrong. I would say half your age times7. Like that u make sure they went through the MLC.
I don't think it's half my age times 7, because that comes out to be 154.
I just Googled it. It is half your age plus 7. So for you Rick, that's 31.5!
you guys are right, have to get that mlc potential out of the way, but then, these days, that includes anyone from 25-60. We're doomed! What do we do?
Move to mars. It's our only hope!
More going back to school/old man stories, went to class last night, last week was midterm. Got an 89, happy with that. As I walk into class, this very vocal student asks everyone what they got, normally, in the real world, people are put off when asked these kinds of questions, but, in the world of the student this is par for the course. So, I say an 89, the group of them, maybe 6 or so, who, it turns out got f's and d's, ask me "how did you do it man, how did you study, I studied the study guide and none of the questions were on the test" they didnt like the format, the questions were too hard, etc, etc.
I said to them, newsflash, I did this really novel thing, I READ THE BOOK AND TOOK NOTES IN CLASS! HOW ABOUT THAT! Of course I didnt say it like that, but I did say that I read the book, and the questions came right out of the book.
Another story from the continuing adventures of going back to school at the age of 52. We hear it all the time, but, its true, students these days are much different, the study and work ethic is much different, they seemed genuinely flabbergasted that by reading the book you could actually do well on the test!
Oh, well, all in good fun, the experience is definately a good diversion for me at this period in my life. I will keep you all updated with more funny adventures.
Good thought, but I hear those Martian women live to be 200 years old , and their MLC'S can last decades instead of years! Plus they refuse to relocate!
Good thought, but I hear those Martian women live to be 200 years old , and their MLC'S can last decades instead of years! Plus they refuse to relocate!
That's pretty damn funny, Gunny!
Really? 26 for me... hmm... that seems a little young. I guess as I've considered it here and there 28 has been my cutoff so 26 isn't that crazy. But even 28 I've struggled with. 28 would be 10 years my junior and 10 seems a good cutoff to me.
Not that I'm anywhere near wanting or needing to worry about it, but that is an interesting formula.
Of course if you take that out a ways you get 47 for an 80 year old so I'm thinking that math falls apart somewhere
Trust me, when that 26 year old was hitting on me the other night I was really thinking the math and the universe had imploded.
In retrospect I blame my sister. She told me to wear a certain blouse, certain jeans, a certain pair of earrings, my cowgirl belt that is 29 years old and my roper boots. That young man who hit on me is from Texas, I dare say he didn't stand a chance.
I was just trying to make sure I looked good enough to sell some stuff and hand out flyers for the boat to be chartered. I also got one charter that night. They already went sailing and gave my son a great tip in addition to the decent charter fee!
Anyway Gunny, it sounds like you are having fun and learning in school. I remember when I went through my aircraft maintenance officer course. All the prior service guys would ace the tests, then sit there and get questions thrown out until all of us dunces they liked passed the test.
I think with age comes a greater capicity to learn. Sorry if you have already said, But what is your long term college goal?
Aloha,
Wendy
PS Yes it is past my sleep hygine bedtime!
Hello Wendy,
Thanks for popping in. No long term goal, just taking classes for the fun of it. I'm using whats called the Post 9-11 GI bill, which is an enhanced version of the old GI Bill. It is open to anyone who served after September 11th, and will pay for your tuition, books, and also a monthly housing stipend. I served 22 years in the Marines and never was able to use any of the education benefits, so when this one came along, at this transitional time in my life, I decided to take advantage.
I already have a Masters in Urban Planning, and have no interest or desire to study for anymore advanced degree. I am now just taking courses that interest me, like history, cooking, nutrition and health, and maybe sociology and psychology(figure maybe that might help me to try to figure out my w, lol!)
Anyway, I cant tell you how much more fun it is to be able to take a class and not worry about getting a great grade. I look around at the students in the class and I listen to their stories of how stressed they are about life in general,(at 19, 20, etc), and I thank God that I am past that stage of my life. You could not pay me to be that age again, and have to go through all the heartache and experiences of the last 30+ years.
How is your sitch, anything new? I will catch up on your story, enjoy the day!!
Hey Gunny!
I went to a today meeting at the state capitol about Act 54(?) which was interesting, but my friend was hating it so we left. Hey, she has cancer, so this year she gets what she wants.... Asking me to go as part of AARP is pushing the friendship limits, though!
It was about urban planning and something was said about a guy who wrote a book with the word blue in the title. Bike lanes and stuff. Okay we walked there, I skipped lunch and just came away with, I need to learn more about that!
My H ened up with 3 masters degrees, the military sure likes those degrees. Urban planning sounds interesting. I went to visit my old home town and that place was a disaster. A fine example of how to not let a town grow!
I also wouldn't want to go back to being 19. Oh the heartbreak of my true love and I breaking up, how I thought my world would never be the same. Now I can't even remember his middle name or his birthday. Funny.
My youngest son was doing very well in college, but quit after he got his associates. You can lead a horse to water.....
I think it would be fun to take classes just for the fun of it. I guess that is what I do now, only they are all quilting related classes!
My drama continues. I just keep plugging along. Some days are better than others. It has been raining cats and dogs here in Hawaii for the past 3 weeks. Really puts a damper on my mood. Oh well, no rain, no rainbow.
Aloha,
Wendy
PS Please recommend one book about urban planning, maybe entry level stuff? Thanks!
Hi Wendy
Thanks for popping in. The AARP thing, yes, I remember the shock when I got my card in the mail(unsolicited) when I turned 50!
I would think the worst day in Hawaii with rain is better than the best day anywhere else without rain! Except maybe Alaska! LOL.
Try "Edge City" about the growth of the exurban area in the U.S.
Let us know if you have anymore 26 year olds striking up a conversation, guess you wont find many at AARP gatherings! HA HA
Hello everyone, havent posted in a while, sort of in that netherworld between sep/div. I generally receive at least one email a week from w, generally about business stuff, i.e. sale of house, taxes, etc. I recently finished moving into a one bedroom bungalow and had to sort through all the personal items we had accumulated over the last 14 years together, since when she moved out of state she took only the bare essentials. It was left to me to deal with the furniture, landlord, etc.
I am passed that phase now, she emailed me last week to thank me for meeting with our accountant to work out the taxes. Gathering the info for the taxes was both emotional and time consuming. She said she realizes I have been left with her leftovers to clean up and she is appreciative.
At the end of her last email, she basically said I know you have been busy with things, but that she really feels it is time for us to move forward on the D. I fully expected this to come, and was not too shocked.
We are not using lawyers or mediators, and will be filing on our own. She is asking me to file, since for her to file in her state would require both of us to appear in court, and she will not be able to file in NJ because she has to have been a resident for 12 consecutive months.
I am probably going to reluctantly agree to file here, even though I did not want the d, only to enable both of us to get on with our lives. I dont see any prospect for a reconciliation, she seems hellbent on getting the D. I have pretty much accepted this.
It strange, after she sent me the email, the next day she sent me a great picture of our dog sitting in the grass looking very kingly.Its almost as if she felt bad about our last exchange and was trying to change the subject.
Got a call from my SIL (bros wife) who is close to my w, she said my w has a new photo up on facebook, she is sitting on a motorcycle with a leather jacket on and a helmet. She is by herself. I have never known my w to ride a bike, but then, she has been doing some very uncharacteristic things over the last 9 mos. It is almost as if she is rebelling against who she was for the last 12 years of our m. She told me more than once that she feels like she lost herself in our m. I find myself constanly asking myself now, "who was my wife really? anyone else have this experience during and after the D? Could my w have supressed who she really was for 14 years? Seems like it would be impossible to me, any thoughts folks?
Hope you all are doing okay, really could use some insights from the pros on here, thanks all
Hi Gunny. I think it is possible for her to have suppressed things. Maybe she is having a MLC. I don't know about you filling. My understanding is the WAS should do all the work but mybe I'm wrong. Do you want to file? If not than I think she should do it. IMO but maybe others can chime in
Have a great on my friend
Gunny
sorry for your pain. But don't waste time wondering if she suppressed herself or if this is an MLC or not
It does not change YOUR course of action (GAL/180s, etc) and it is a waste of time wondering these things.
Besides, people do change. We grow and evolve and some of our growth is not linear. Some of our changes are good, but not all. Sometimes we take 3 steps forward and 4 back and maybe make it up later.
I have thought of getting a motorbike too. I won't til our d is out of the house or I have more life insurance. And maybe I won't get it.
I DID get my pilot's license but I don't own a plane. Just always wanted to do it, and go skydiving. Did that twice and will again. LOVED the freedom I felt.
But in some ways yes I have felt repressed. It's not my h's fault, it's our own choice and society's expectations, etc.
I never got a grip about what your w wanted that she did not get in the marriage. Any new insights there?
I know you didn't have kids. Did she regret that do you think? is she near her family now?
Anyhow, give yourself some more time to reflect. I don't know the logistics of divorcing in your situation or how harmful it'd be financially.
But I DO understand that at some point, everyone has a breaking point. Not "breaking down"
but breaking off with the past and wanting to move forward...I get it.
But you don't have to DO anything, today....
keep talking here and see if we can help you navigate
Gunny, I am not a vet here and with my own D looming I question my perspective.
I do not give one whit about your W or for making this easy for her, she abandoned, she quit. I do give a sh1t about your readiness to move on, to go forth again.
What do you want? Are you ready to move on? Do you wish to make this easy?
Ohio has a 6 month residency requirement. Certainly she has met that by now. I do not know if you would have to appear. I am reasonably certain lawyers would have to be involved across state lines.
IMHO
Letting the LBS do all the work is really more of a shortly post bomb strategy. What it does is that it buys you time during the period that the WAS is most resolute. It also gives them time to cool off and look at things objectively.
Finally it gives reality some time to kick in.
As to how long you should wait? Hard to say, you know every case is different.
I think once the WAS seems content with living in limbo that you should move towards pulling the plug. I believe that for many after the initial resolve wears away, they may not be sure they are ready to return, and they are not sure they want to divorce. So they ride limbo afraid to make a decision. Some stories here ride on for months if not years of misery on both sides since the WAS is too afraid or too proud to make a decision.
In these cases I recommend just slowly letting go. Tell her you contacted a lawyer for advice, send him his info. Ask if she wants to contact him. Give her time.
Get the forms, send them, give her time to fill it.
In other words move with her, but continue to let her set the pace. Slowly amp the ante. Think of each movement as a toll gate. Slowly start moving towards it so she has time to think about it but knows that she may loose you if she doesn't make up her mind
It's the whole you don't know what you have onto you lose it.
(((gunny))), so sorry, even tho we all expect it, I'm sure it's so difficult to actually take that step.
I have no advice other than move at the pace you're comfortable with.
From my meditation book for March 25th: What if we knew for certain that everything we're worried about today will work out fine?...What if we knew the future was going to be good and we would have an abundance of resources and guidance to handle whatever comes our way?
...What if we knew everything was OK and we didn't have to worry about a thing? What would we do then?
We'd be free to let go and enjoy life.
Enjoy life, my friend
thanks everyone for your good words, I will reflect on them and get back with my thoughts, hope you are all doing well today!
gunny, I am going to agree with a lot of what has been previously said here.
If you're ready to move on, then you go ahead and agree to file. However, if it's not what you want, let your W go ahead and file and do the heavy lifting. Do what you need to do to protect yourself. If you don't know, sit on it until you can determine where you are.
IOW, do what's right for you.
If you need to come to Ohio, you have a place to stay.
Good morning all, back to do some journaling. Taxes are done, we ended up owing, which is the norm since I underwithold every year to put the money to good use throughout the year. Suggested to w to we divide the figure she immediately agreed, no problem.
Our correspondance continues to be super friendly, she called me here at work last week, first time I have talked to her on the phone for months. She wanted to go over the figures for the taxes, final tabulation of my move(leftover security money), how our dog was doing, and how the sale of our vacation cabin was going. Very friendly conversation. She asked me if I would like to take my dog for a couple of weeks in the summer when she goes on vacation. I immediately said yes, she could have asked her sister to watch him, but she said she thought I would like the opportunity.
At the same time, she is adamant about wanting to press forward on the d, I contacted the Divorce Center(a service here that will complete and file your d app for total of $650 (only works if d is amicable) they will be sending me the first part of the app, She has said she will be paying the full costs.
As I have read here on the boards, it seems that the WAS must have the d in order to move forward in their lives, whereever that may be. As the months have gone on, our correspondance has become progressively more comfortable and friendly. I know this can change in a heartbeat, and I am not reading into it, but it does give me a measure of comfort in knowing that at least we are still friendly, which is a far cry from the stories I hear when I go to my divorce support meetings.
Thanks for listening all, hope you are all hanging in their if not thriving,!!
why are YOU filing if SHE wants the divorce?
Hello Tonibertha,
Even though I initially did not want the d, the fact that she has moved to another state has pretty much made the point moot. If she filed in her state, I would have to appear, which in the totality of things (me being left behind to deal with taxes, moving issues, landlord issues, selling of vacation cabin, the emotional baggage of being the lbs, etc etc,)has made we realize that the easiest thing to do to expedite thingss the process is for me to file in my state and end the process relatively quickly. It is clear to me that is what she wants, i could fight it, but to what end?
As they say, sometimes discretion is the better part of valor.
Thanks for asking, I will have to read up on your situation, have a good day!
You are not supposed to fight it. But you don't have to help, or hinder. i wish you luck in your situation
Gunny:
I have been dark for a while, and it is good hear you are moving forward. Given your situation, I think filing is just fine. As with me, it is obvious the D is a check box for your W, needed for her to move forward wherever she is going. Like you, I did the D for her. Perhaps some day they will recognize how much we really do care.
I am now 2 months into the D/LS. My W went dark immediately after, taking refuge with an old boyfriend. Now she has realized that is not what she wants, and she is back in her house solo, trying to figure out how to move forward. Obviously still fighting depression. She has contacted me twice in the past couple of weeks for the first time. I am trying to figure out if I should contact her occassionally, or just stay dark. Not sure what to do.
I am glad spring is here, and GAL activities can ratchet up. Hang in there, and be strong.
Hey gunny, I understand the melancholy you might be feeling. But brighter days are ahead, now you can start to live a new and different life.
None of us knows what the future holds, it's just our job to get up and live the best life we can, every day.
Best to you!
Do it because it's something you need Gunny. Don't take care of her... even if this is something she wants that doesn't mean it's your job.
If you want to end the uncertainty, avoid the difficulties of divorcing in another state, legally protect yourself... then do it. Those are all valid reasons. Heck, just saying your done with this cr*p and it's time to move on is valid too. We all have our limits.
But she's not an invalid... if her highest priority really was divorcing then she would have. Clearly it's not her highest priority. This is not the same as saying she doesn't want it... she may still want it, it's just not high enough on the to do list. Perhaps it's financial. Or she's fine with things they way they are. Maybe she likes having her marriage as a safety net... after all if it all falls apart she is still married, right? Or maybe setting up a new life is really hard and crazy, and she just hasn't had time or is overwhelmed. Who the heck knows?
But if you feel like it brings you to a better spot then you should feel free to do it. It's just a transitory state... only when you really move on and completely close the book is it over. Divorce is just a legal step.
Hello folks,
All good comments. Thanks for taking the time to respond. Yes, living in limbo for me is not a good place to be, I find myself wanting closure. Getting a d for me is bittersweet, in that I am glad we are both able to work this out without even having to use a mediator(we did consult one), because of all the horror stories I have heard about protracted battles with lawyers.
On the other hand, it is sad to think that a 12 year m can be ended in 8 weeks for 650 dollars, wham, bam, thank you maam. Guess its a case of having my cake and eating it too, but I would like to think our marriage meant more than just a legal form.
Oh well, off to the mountains for the holiday, hope everyone has a safe and happy holiday!
good to hear from you ac, glad you seem to be moving into a bettr place emotionally, good luck with staying in contact with her.
Hey Gunny glad that you are feeling strong. Enjoy the weekend buddy
Thanks Gunny. Enjoy the weekend. Let's connect next week.
Hello 25,
Sorry it has taken me so long to get back with thoughts on your questions,
I have had alot of time to reflect on what my w did not get in the m. She said, and I beleive, that she was looking for a connection, and she felt connected to Ohio, where she grew up. She is now living next door to her sister, who she is very close to. We are slowly starting to talk a little more substantially even while the paperwork is in progress. I believe she may have shaped her personality and lifestyle to conform to what she though I wanted, because she is a classic people pleaser and I can have a strong personality sometimes(not mean or aggressive, just strong willed). But really have not changed a great deal from when we were first married, We talked about not having kids befoe we got married, and she agreed that kids were not in her plans, but I think that changed as she approached her early forties, I think she regretted not having them.
Its almost as if she was in a deep freeze during our marriage, and as the years went along she started to defrost, and ever so slowly her real base self emeerged. For whatever reason, she believed that this person was incompatible with our marriage, It must have been exhausting for her, living a charade. I can perfectly understand where she was coming from, I only wish that I had been given the chance to work on our perceived issues. Its a shame to throw away 14 good years, and someone, (me), who literally would have given their life for their spouse. In the course of our lives, how often can we say this about anyone?
I thought I was her best friend, and I believe we are truly blessed if we have one truly best friend in our lives. Are we that rich in friends that we can afford to discard them awhen times get a little tough?
Thanks for listening, hope this has offered some insight, not sure that it is not me just venting!
Gunny:
As per usual, our situations are quite similar. Is it possible that your W, who was in a deep freeze as you say, is in the process of a 'deep thaw'? I have no idea what is happening with my xW, but I do not that she has been contacting me more, leaning on me for help/advice, and actually called my mother on Easter. WTF? I am helping her with an upcoming job interview for a 6 month gig, which seems to be exactly what she needs. After that, who knows where her head will be at?
I think 'throwing away' is just not right. You have not thrown her away, nor have I. While I am not paralyzed waiting for her to change her mind, I am also in this for the long haul. Even if she never returns, which she probably will not, the love and devotion I have always felt with her will remain. I don't think you can throw something like that away.
Hang in there.
Gunny, if your W is such a people pleaser, she's just going to go through this all over again with someone else if she can't work through it with you. Her relief is going to be temporary.
I do hope these are the signs of some "re-building" blocks for you.
Are we that rich in friends that we can afford to discard them awhen times get a little tough?
I hear you on this one, buddy. I'd say the answer to this is probably not. It may take discarding some good friends to learn that you have good friends, though. I would say by doing so, she's not being a very good friend to you.
PS - thought of you this weekend when I saw a truck parked out in the street with a special Marines license plate personalized with "GUN E".
Hang in there, buddy.
Got an email from w this afternoon, hoping that I had a good Easter and giving me her brothers email. I asked for it because I wanted to thank him for inviting me over for thanksgiving last year, now that I feel much more in control of myself I wanted to write him a composed letter.
Thats it for today, thanks all!
Journaling/venting.
Just received email from w.
Hi Gunny,
Just wanted to let you know that I sent the check for $ and you should get it by thursday.
Have you gotten to the Divorce Center yet? You said you were going to try to make it over there a couple of weeks ago and I was wondering what the status was.
Thanks Gunny
WIFE
I thought about it for a while, here is my response.
Hi Wife
Thanks for sending the check, I appreciate it. Did you take traveler(our dog) to the vet for a followup, if so how did it go?
I went to the Divorce Center last week, they sent me the preliminary paperwork, I filled it out and sent it back yesterday. I will keep you updated as to the progress.
Wife, please know that this is a VERY distateful chore. Please try to put yourself in my shoes and know that everytime you ask me about the my blood pressure goes up. Please let the system work.
You have done a great job in keeping me informed about traveler and I really appreciate that. You have continued to stay friendly and amicable and I appreciate that also. Trust me, I will continue to keep you informed,
Thanks Wife
Gunny
Any comments? All are welcome, thanks everyone
Gunny, you probably could have left out the part where you were stating your opinion on the distastefulness of the chore. I'm right there with you, brother. However, your W probably doesn't give a rip right now about how you feel about it.
I agree with JB. I wont go as far as saying she doesn't care at all about your feelings... she just cares about hers more.
Either say thanks or don't reply. You can't stop her from nagging.. but if you don't want to talk about it.. it's ok.
Honestly, if she wants it so bad, she can take care of it.
That's my .02
Thanks all. Since I am now in the phase where the paperwork is starting to flow, I will be asking for advice on how I should proceed and how I should answer some of her emails, keeping in mind that she has been very cooperative and flexible throughout this whole ordeal. For instance, here is her response to my response of yesterday:
Hi Gunny,
Yes, I took Traveler back to the vet, and he is healing fine. She saw no signs of the ulcer in his eye when she put stain in it.
I'm sorry to have to keep asking, but yes, you said you would keep me informed. If you had told me that 1) you contacted the center and received preliminary paperwork and/or 2) sent it out yesterday, I would not have asked you today. Before I left, we discussed the timing of everything and I thought we agreed that we would file,(meaning me)at the beginning of 2012. That didnt happen due to various reasons, which I understand. I'm sorry this raises your blood pressure... it raises mine too. But as long as you keep me informed, I wont have to ask. And I do feel like I am being understanding of your situation. Believe me, I'm not trying to do anything other than move this process along in a timely manner.
I'll talk to you soon,
Wife
My first reaction to this was a bit of anger. She has been as i said understanding and flexible througout this ordeal, but she seems to have a difficult time understanding why I could be a little sensitive about the subject, esp since she deserted me. She decided to leave, would not go to counseling, decided to move out of state, took my dog(we both agreed on this), left all of her furniture that she could not fit in her car behind, left me to deal with our landlord who was we thought a friend of hers, left me to list and clean out our vacation home, left me to gather all the paperwork for taxes(which has always been my job), and is now thin skinned when I dont inform her of every little step in the D process, which is very painful for me to have to undertake.
Well, kind of just venting, I am frustrated, I am not trying to stand in her way, just asking for a little human understanding. Any advice from you sage wisepeople on how to respond to this, if at all? I was thinking of just saying :Hello W, I have sent you copies of the preliminary paperwork which did not requrie you to do anything. I will also be enclosing your bible which I found in Julieannes garage when I move our stuff out last week. I will continue to keep you informed as things move along, have a good day,
Gunny.
Any thoughts folks.
As always, thank you all for your time and interest, it really does help,
Gunny
Don't let it push your buttons.
Yes, I sense the anger and defensiveness in her response, almost like she's talking to a kid. I recognize it because I've sent similar emails I'm ashamed to say.
Drop that rope. Do what you need to do when you need to do it. I know you won't drag this out unnecessarily. If you get a similar email, just answer with the facts. "It was filed on Fri." or whatever.
She could have done this divorce in a couple of different ways. She chose to put the burden on you. She must deal with that.
(((g)))
^^^ I agree.
Gunny, I didn't see where a response was required, so I wouldn't respond at all. Just my suggestion. Keep your responses to any inquiries all business and to the facts.
Hang in there, man.
agree with LaBug completely.
If you have read my sitch, my W acts exactly the same way.
Do things at your own pace at what your heart can handle.
but keep yourself in check as well.
It's a fine line... but you're strong enough to walk it!
((( )))