Part 1: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2209361&page=1
Part 2:http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2209442&nt=11&page=1A brief overview of my current sitch: so you don't have to click all the way through the old ones...although there is some interesting stuff in there
My H has decided that he has feelings for my BFF (now known as OW). I have ended my friendship with her. I have expressed anger to both of them (I know, not productive.) They aren't currently dating because OW is recently divorced too and she says she's not ready to date yet, but can see a future R with H. (I've actually thrown up several times thinking about this possibility) I am currently struggling to deal with this second bomb, and I'm contemplating going away for a few weeks.
H has said that he "deserves to be happy", "I don't want to be alone, and I don't have to be", "I care about you, but I don't need your permission to date."
Is this ^^^ when I'm supposed to 'ignore what they say, and only 50% of what they do'?? So I guess when they actually start dating, I'm not supposed to believe that either??
This is a new realm for me to be in- having to deal with OW (who was supposed to be my BFF).
I'm not sure I have the strength to sit around and watch this happen- more power to all of you who have witnessed OW/OM in your WAS lives. It makes me sick (literally) to know that on his nights off, he will be at her house- with her kids. And on the nights that H has our boys, he will also be at her house- with her kids. I have expressed my upmost concern/un-acceptance for my boys getting confused about what their 'family' is.
(Up until now, our two families have done A LOT together and we've mixed and match kids based on things she and I needed to do- everyone gets along like a family.)It has been suggested to me that I take some time, but don't completely leave my house (like I originally wanted to do) and I need to control my anger so they can't see it.
How do you do this??? How do I hold my tongue from telling them how much they are killing me with no apparent remorse???
Any people who have had success with dealing with an OW/OM in your life- I could really use some suggestions!
here are some posts to get you started...on detachment and if I can find it, a post by MrBond on how he dealt with OM (he was above OM and knew OM was a symptom of the marital crisis, and that's extra true in your sitch b/c your h is doing the minimal amount of work needed to "date" by grabbing literally the first single woman he knows and does not have to "get to know" b/c it has been done for him....)
so yes she is a symptom and that makes your personal work all the more important to do. No matter what you want to hold your head high and behave with dignity so that when your wakes up or snaps out of it
or sees her for who she is, and then realizes YOU have made CHANGES and since you are the mother is his only kids,
he's going to prefer working it out with you...so make sure when he looks your way, that you will be the better choice.
consistent change + sufficient time = change they can believe in...
This was originally posted by Peanut.
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II. Detachment
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship. Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to those actions that will undermine our very best chances of accomplishing our goals. We can not control the actions of another. We are, however, responsible for our own actions. We are responsible for our own happiness. If we are detached from the actions of another, we can meet anger or indifference with love. Met with love we are in a position to diffuse the situation and transform it in a way that will be in alignment with our goals. On the flipside, detachment allows us to play it cool when we do get a positive reaction from our spouse. It is a way to break the distance/pursuer cycle.
Detachment is not withdrawal. It is not the mind saying, ‘I am not getting what I want so I must pull back.’ It is the natural acceptance that I am alone responsible for how I act. I can not control another person, but I can control how I respond to them."
______________
the next post has some applicable parts but it's from a WAW to her LBSer h...so reverse the roles and see which parts apply...
as hurt as you are right now, I think your h may have felt the way this wife felt, for some time...give it some thought.
FROM A WAW TO A LBS HUSBAND WHO HAS CHANGED AND WONDERS WHY HIS WAW HAS NOT COME HOME YET, & HOW SHE CAN BE AT ALL INTERESTED IN OM…
When I read your interactions with your wife, I could so easily identify with your wife's feelings/words/sentiments. I have been in her position in my M. I was the ignored, the devalued, the one who was treated as less than. I even got chills when she talked about the FB issues, because I've been there and done that, bought the t-shirt Of course, my H went a step further and cheated, then left, adding an extra crunchy layer of goodness to my sitch.
One of the things that I have tried my hardest not to do, is not to engage with another man. Not just because of my marriage vows, but because I knew that when I truly engaged in any type of R with another man, it would make it that much harder to ever reconcile with my H. Because being treated differently (better) than the way he treated me would lessen him so much in my eyes.
So, I can see where your W is coming from. When you've been mistreated to the point where you actually let go of your R enough to let another person into your heart or bed or whatever, it takes a boatload of work to get back on a page where you're recommitted to being with your Spouse - and those uncertainties that she's expressed to you, I don't know if you truly, truly fathom how deep they run.
Six months of getting back on a page where you treat her the way that any wife should be treated does not even scratch the surface of the years, the intrinsic devaluing that occurs when you're systematically mistreated for such a stretch of time.
And I promise you that while you have recommitted and worked for 6 months, your W has simply been trying to get to a point where she can even buy into the changes, where she can even think that you might have changed and not scoff at the thought.
Because when you build up hope again and again and again in your H and he crushes it again and again and again, you develop a thick skin, a protective doubt, a conditioned response to even the slightest, grainiest seed of hope. You are taught that when you hope, you will be disappointed. When you try, you will fail. You are taught that you will never be what he wants and it is hard to shake what you have come to believe is reality.
And for the changes that you've made to have come only when she walked away and OM became competition, I can definitely see how she can doubly doubt that you truly want to be in a M with her, and not just to win.
Even you today say that you are not sure that you don't just want to win.
Step 1 - figure that sh!t out ASAP. Because if you actually do manage to convince her that you really do want her and really have recommitted to her and you actually just want to win, you'll put her through hell.
________
thanks 25, detaching has been the hardest thing so far... I wasn't even completely detached when this new bomb was dropped. I know that it would be the best thing to do so I can't get hurt by their words/actions... but how do you actually *DO* it?? Is there a special phrase that you can chant to your self until your detached? are there evil thoughts I should think about them?
I have been plagued by insomnia and all the negative thoughts come rushing in. I over analyze, re-play every interaction, and play out the future for myself. I logically know that none of this is helpful or productive- how am I supposed to stop this??? I am really sad that I don't have someone who misses me, I don't belong to someone, no one is sitting at home worried about me when I go out for the night. Every relationship I had before H, cheated on me. When I moved away from our other duty stations, only 1 friend from each place bothered to keep up communications with me- everyone else ignored my emails/phone calls. ..... makes me really wonder what's wrong with me?? Why does everyone leave me??
I sound like a pathetic, self-conscience person right now- who would want to be with that?! But this is how I feel. I don't know how to 'rise above' those feelings and act 'as-if' I'm fine and happy.
I really feel hopeless. I would like to say that they will be each other's rebound and this will crash and burn.... but I don't think so. Since they already know each other so well, the intimacies will be easier to jump into. They are both cowards. They both don't know how to be alone to focus on themselves before jumping into a new relationship.
He leaves for AFG in June. It makes no sense to me for either of them to start a R before he leaves. And it makes me sick to know that 'absence makes the heart grow fonder' will be applied to *her* not *me*. He'll come back in a year and be ready to jump into their R and leave me in the dust. (I know, projecting into the future is wrong- I don't know how to turn it off.)
I know that rebounds usually fizzle out after a few months.... but H and I were each other's rebounds after each of us broke off 3 year relationships...so we *married* our rebounds- this doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about them.
She knows all my deep, dark feelings about H. How the he!! could she betray our 'friendship' like this?? I have come to realize that she was never a true friend- which makes all of her 'love and support' meaningless over the past few years.
Even if I want to take some time away to calm down and collect my strength, I can't leave for another 2 weeks because of medical appointments. H says he will still be there for all of them, especially my 2 heart surgeries.... I really want someone there who will hold me hand when I'm scared, or make me laugh to distract me, and be my advocate to the doctors when I can't speak. H used to be all these things (and so was my friend), but I'm so angry with them, I think it would cause more stress on me to have them there rather than not. Sadly, I don't have any family members who can take time to come up to be with me.... I'm starting to realize how *alone* I really am.
I know that I am my own worst enemy. Dwelling on negatives, projections and assumptions are all not productive for *me* let alone any chance to save my M. I am truly at a loss for how to actually *DO* the things that need to be done: detach, control my anger, don't let negative thoughts take over my brain.
(((Purg))) Negative thoughts are things you tell yourself some are on automatic some are more conscious. There are rational and irrational negative beliefs. Focus on the irrational ones. For examPle you maybe telling yourself that you will never ever again be in a R.
You have to dspute those irrational beliefs. What are the chances that you will never again be in a R? Practice this and see if it helps.
As for the detaching use whatever trick helps to get you there. After a while what they do or say does not hurt as much. Hang in there
Emotion is clouding your thoughts. And I understand that but it's not helping you. Think about what has really changed. Other than the dippy-opportunist girl, nothing. You still want your marriage, you still have your children, he's still going to AFG, he still wants to separate. Even tho he told dip-op about his "feelings" she has not taken him up on his offer.
I know you hate to hear this but control what you can control. Let them sort themselves out. As 25 said, you are giving away your power to those two. You know as well as I do that all the ruminating in the world will not change anything, all the yelling, screaming, begging and pleading in the world will not change anything. I'm not saying don't do it but give yourself 15 minutes everyday to just let it all out and then be done with it.
I asked before but I don;t know that you answered: Do you have an IC?
busto has a post on this thread that might be helpful to you.
bustorama Hope you get outside, both your head and your house, and do something for you today.
I just got caught up on your latest sitch. I am SO sorry. I am more angry with her (for you) than him actually).
It's all the more devastating because you were an open book to her about this situation and you have a valid fear that she will use that against you, trying to build her relationship with him.
And I agree with you, a real friend, would say... "never, nope, not in a million years would I go with you because my friendship with Pur is more important".
I have the dedication to friends and expect the same from them. But lots of women don't.
Question: was her EX military as well?
I am just thinking, over a year of long distance is a loooooong time. I just can't see this working out for them and for her to hold her arms open for him for that long.
I think that also it will be your situation he thinks of at night, when there are rockets over head and sleep is far.
He may not think of good things right away but I bet with some distance, clarity will come.
And I wonder for you too, this long year ahead of you both, if this will give you the time for clarity of your own. YOU may decide that his actions are NOT something you're willing to tolerate.
Who knows.
But I do HEAR you about feeling alone. About feeling like everyone drops you in your life. I feel the same way A LOT. And if I sit and wallow in it, it takes over. I wish SO MUCH we were in the same area, because I would come and hold your hand through it all.
I am not of much help here. My R is over. Instead of looking forward to our reunion in 5 weeks, I am dreading it.
I just wanted to know that I'm hear to listen and empathize.
111
* Here for you .... sorry for my typos
Thanks everyone. I feel awful because I haven't contributed to other's threads in a while, I just don't want to be a negative presence for everyone else right now.
Rick- thanks for suggesting to focus on the irrational ones, I'll really try. Thanks for not making me feel horrible for having the negative thoughts- I hope I'm not the only one who does this.
labug- yes, I do have an IC. We meet on mondays, and I haven't seen her since before Xmas because of holidays and she was sick... really suxx. We also have a MC that we check in with as needed... I'm thinking she might like to hear about this new development.
You bring up a good point- nothing has *changed* except 'dip-op' is now in the picture (btw- I LOVE that nickname!). To me- this seems like the rules have changed- because now I have 'competition' in a way. I realize that it shouldn't affect any changes that I have already done, and should continue to do... I just now find it really hard to keep my mouth shut from the snippy, smart @ss comments that flow through my head. Even though I know there is nothing good that came come from it (and in fact all it does is make me look bad) I need to get them out of my head.
Over the past few days (since H told me about his feelings for her), he's been more vocal about his hurts when he initiates R talk. These are the things I hear:
* You really hurt me. I can't get past that.
* Why did it take me walking away for you to do anything about it?
* I always told you what I needed, and you didn't do anything.
* I've felt lonely for 6 years, and I'm done being lonely.
* I've come to realize that I still really care about you, and I want to be there for you [medically and emotionally] but at the level I'm comfortable with.
* I don't want you out of my life, I've just changed your role. As my friend, you can't hurt me- you don't have to do the things a lover does and I can't get hurt by you.
Is it positive that he's unloading all this on me? Is he rationalizing his choice to move onto my friend? Is he telling me the things that she does, that I didn't do? What do I do with this new insight from him?
I'm silly to ask so many questions, but H has never been this forthcoming about his pain. I've only ever heard: "You hurt me more than anyone and I can't live like that anymore."
I'm a mess. I wish I could crawl under the covers for a few days... but I've got the kids today (an arranged schedule with H) so I've got to find some kind of strength to get through the day. I wish I had a 'silver lining' to put a positive focus for my day.
Do you think he might be opening up because moving out at the end of the week is going to be closing a door/starting a new chapter and he is unsure?
But you know what, analyzing his actions over and over is only going to drive you nuts.
How do his revelations make YOU feel? Do you feel a little better now that you're getting armed with valuable knowledge?
Honestly, I think this could be your silver lining Pur.
And also, may I add, your children are your silver lining. When I was down and didn't get out of bed or eat for days, I didn't have any reason in the world to do otherwise, I often wished I had.
Your kids are your silver lining! They love you unconditionally and you want that to continue. Be there for them today. Forget whatever else, chores, etc, you might think you need to accomplish today and be with them. Do whatever silly things they want to do. Roll around on the floor, make blanket forts, watch whatever movies they want (even tho you've seen them a million times). H will do what H will do, but he can't take away the relationship you have with your kids.
((((P))))
Def. A BIG GROUP ((((((((( PUR )))))))))
Hey Purg - Feeling the anger and frustration for you and with you. So sorry for all this. You've got some great advice from people here. It will take time for it to sink in because your emotions are fighting against your reasoning. You're going to have to make a choice on which one leads your decisions. Keep focus on which route makes you a better you.
IMHO, your focus really needs to be on yourself right now and not the M. You're hurt and reeling and feel a strong need for "justice" against the H and OW for how they've treated you. That's called being human. The hard part is you don't have a way to bring justice and accomplish what you want.
Its kind of like those movies where the guy goes out to seek vengence but when he does, he's still not happy.
Follow up with your IC and increase the meetings if you need to. That may be your best source of support right now. Not sure if a church is an option for you but you may be able to find one with divorce support groups or something like that so you can make some new (and more real) friends.
A few other things. Regardless of how quaint it sounds, absence does NOT make the hard grow fonder. If anything it takes even more work to stay connected so try not to worry too much about H and OW relationship - there's a strong chance it will fade on its own soon enough.
You said...
Over the past few days (since H told me about his feelings for her), he's been more vocal about his hurts when he initiates R talk. These are the things I hear:
* You really hurt me. I can't get past that.
* Why did it take me walking away for you to do anything about it?
* I always told you what I needed, and you didn't do anything.
* I've felt lonely for 6 years, and I'm done being lonely.
* I've come to realize that I still really care about you, and I want to be there for you [medically and emotionally] but at the level I'm comfortable with.
* I don't want you out of my life, I've just changed your role. As my friend, you can't hurt me- you don't have to do the things a lover does and I can't get hurt by you.
Is it positive that he's unloading all this on me? Is he rationalizing his choice to move onto my friend? Is he telling me the things that she does, that I didn't do? What do I do with this new insight from him?
From the book, this can be a good thing. He's opening up, but it is also critical in how YOU respond.
My W said many of the same things. It hurts and I use to argue with her and defend my actions. That did not help. It didn't get me to my goal. So rather than feeling sorry for myself I started listening and validating her feelings. They are her feelings and there is no way to tell a person that's not how they are feeling.
Its rough because he wants to keep you around but not in the way you want. You can't control him. But if you want to work on your M, then him wanting to keep you around creates an opportunity. But you will have to work hard to take advantage of it and work on yourself and not the M. Make you the goal and there is better hope for the M.
A friend of mine posted this as their status on FB today. I think its fitting... Hang on. You have the strength for this but it will be the fight of your life...(((((Purg)))))
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
"I hope I'm not the only one who does this."
Nope you are not the only one in fact everyone does especially when going through a crisis such as ours. It is the basis of cognitive therapy so if you catch yourself thinking in all or nothing terms stop yurself because life lives in the gray. Hang in there.
sorry - that's "heart grow fonder" not "hard"
111- I hope you didn't think I was ignoring you in my previous post... We apparently were posting at the same time, and I never saw it.
Yes, her ex was military (that's how we met in the first place, through our H's at work) When we found out that her H was abusive to her and starting in on her kids, H and I stepped up for her (he and I hadn't stepped into our troubles yet.) She knows how to do the long distance stuff- I cross my fingers that they won't develop a strong bond enough that it keeps both their arms open that long. Because with *her* H, they had a life, history and kids to lean on- there was a reason to keep arms open... but with a new R with my H, it makes me sick to think that they will be discussing the 'longing' and 'can't wait to see you again'... vomit!!!
I do hope that when he's alone and life is scary, that it's me and our kids that pop in his mind.
I too wish you were closer- I would love to have a coffee with someone who 'gets it'. Because of my military lifestyle, I've only managed to keep a few close friends, and they are in other states- so phone/email are my only connections now.
I've read your sitch, and my heart goes out to you for the anxiety you must be feeling for the upcoming homecoming. ((((111))))
CES: Thanks for checking on on me. I'm always surprised when people take their time to give me some attention, it's a comforting feeling.
I'm going through the same craziness I felt when H dropped the bomb over a month ago... I know that there will come a time when my logic can overtake my emotions (because I've done it before), I'm really fighting it right now.
I DO have a feeling of justice needing to be applied here. But you are exactly right, there's no way to accomplish that without making me look foolish and the bad guy. I wish I could put a 'scarlet letter' on them both and parade them through town.
I logically know, that anything I attempt to do against this- will only create a unity between them and push them closer sooner.... but I can't stop my evil brain from making plans. For now, I have a short leash on it- I would rather kill it all together.
In regards to how I'm reacting to his comments- I'm listening and validating. I do not defend, or make excuses. (in fact, H made a passing comment that I "didn't used to be so willing to listen"- so he notices.) I'm presenting the image I want to him- but I'm dying inside. I can't process all the emotions and thoughts that come up. That's where the lack of friends comes into play, and I get lower and lower.
I do have a few plans lined up next week to try some new things and meet new people... This week is H's week off, so I can GAL because of the kids.
I can't tell you how much it means to know that there are strangers out there who care and understand my pain. Thank you all from the bottom of my broken heart.
CES: Thanks for checking on on me. I'm always surprised when people take their time to give me some attention, it's a comforting feeling.
Embrace the embrace you get here^^, and remember that in the grand scheme of things, most people are good at heart.
I'm going through the same craziness I felt when H dropped the bomb over a month ago... I know that there will come a time when my logic can overtake my emotions (because I've done it before), I'm really fighting it right now.
A lot of what you think is a rational fear is mostly just a fear. Fear based choices are never good ones.
There are some behavioral tips I'll post here that helped me when my mind was on the freeway and couldn't "take the damn exit ramp"...
you will need to take the exit soon so you can get to the "scenic overlook", take stock and NOT REACT - but make a "campaign plan" and implement it...
DB coaches are great for that, and if your IC isn't, ask her to be. You need "instructions" more or less.
I DO have a feeling of justice needing to be applied here. But you are exactly right, there's no way to accomplish that without making me look foolish and the bad guy. I wish I could put a 'scarlet letter' on them both and parade them through town.
Purg, First, be brave & strong now or you won't learn what you have to learn in order to make it....but look at this with all the honesty and insight you can, if only just for a minute...take a breath
& see how your h sees most of the past 6 years...and check your first post if you need to, but
if you want to get a scorecard out for justices/injustices in the marriage, would you really come out far ahead?
In his eyes, he has the high ground for now. [i]And for now, maybe he does. How can you change that? Change YOU...
[/i]
Per my Godsent DB coach
Hard lesson #1--it is NOT the spouses job to show their WAS the "consequences of their actions" or "teach them a lesson".
Aside from it looking punitive (which it is, and which you already know AND which backfires big time every time)
LIFE does this for us!
The WAS will learn the hard way if they choose a bad path & stay on it. They will face numerous explanations for how they met, and the KIDS WILL KNOW forever...and their r's w/their own children will never be what they could have been. YOU cannot be the one to tell them this, or predict it to your h, or you will be vilified and seen as the cause..whereas
instead, if you behave like the dignified woman who has been punched in the stomach but STILL picks herself up, dusts herself off, & puts her kids ahead of her pride without losing her self respect, YOU will prevail over time.
I logically know, that anything I attempt to do against this- will only create a unity between them and push them closer sooner.... but I can't stop my evil brain from making plans. For now, I have a short leash on it- I would rather kill it all together.
TIPS for congitive behavior therapy (aka 25's "mind control" secrets)
1) stop sign for evil thoughts....Put it in your head that you have to STOP this, and be discplined enough to stop it, if only for a few minutes at a time.
Enough repetition of that will eventually get you to avoid those thoughts altogether, or to rid yourself of them faster. It's almost like an OCD pattern and it can be changed or broken. Create a new one if you have to...(See below)
The evil thoughts of revenge do not help your cause. Granted, there are LBSers who LOVE exploring their anger & they would say, "it's the JUSTICE of it all!" and "but I'm RIGHT and they are wrong!!..."
but they forget that this is not about being right. It's about being happy
Revenge won't help your cause or even give you peace. It only appeals to your anger and that's NOT helping you, your body, your children or your m.
2) Every day in the shower or wherever you can gain some privacy, say out loud "God, I turn my pain and anger over to you. I lay this marriage in your hands"...
Some days, I said this literally 100 times, esp right before h would call. It helped calm me and thinking it, saying it and hearing it somehow make it sink in...
3) come up with other helpful mantras and do them as well. Such as
"I only control now and 'from this day forward'. Help me be my best NOW"...
I'd put some self help books or some of Marianne Williamson's books on my IPOD and would go on LONG walks (aka "25's Fury Marches") b/c she has written a lot on "Handling Fear & Anger" and though she's new agey for some, for ME she helped with this exact issue. HOW to let go and begin healing and forgiving...
And she had had her heart broken by a man who didn't really get how much he'd hurt her so in some ways it was weirder, you know?
Also had playlists for grief so sometimes I could let go and cry hard about it but only in a safe place. Often I'd get sick & tired of being sick & tired and I'd snap out of it if only for awhile. Most of us can only tolerate so much misery at a time. ( If this does not help you or if you immerse yourself in it for too long, or get too dark with it, then do NOT do it.)
In regards to how I'm reacting to his comments- I'm listening and validating. I do not defend, or make excuses. (in fact, H made a passing comment that I "didn't used to be so willing to listen"- so he notices.) I'm presenting the image I want to him- but I'm dying inside. I can't process all the emotions and thoughts that come up.
First of all- it IS mostly a positive that he's sharing these things, overrall, as much as it sukks to hear. Second, your reaction MATTERS so don't lose it or rant. I LOVE that he has noticed.
Adopt the two phrases that validate, without escalating, and which show change on YOUR End...
If he revises too much or you have no idea what he's referrring to-- don't blurt that out! I once thought my h was simply LYING about an event, but before I could say that out loud, my kids validated HIS version!
Thank God I stayed quiet in that moment b/c it was one of the few comments made in front of them--
plus - no offense--but your memory is either conveniently self serving when it comes to forgetting your outbursts AND OR
you had some untreated diagnosis that YOU WILL GET treatment for, so it will NOT keep happening, and he can trust that will change your behavior & it will be credible....make sense?
1) so for the marital revisions that surprise you, you say
"H, I don't recall it that way (or at all) but I'm so sorry you were hurt/upset."
2) for the memories he brings up that are valid, the fights or the times he was hurt that you recall or believe, or concede are possible, say
"Sorry H, if I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
Both responses validate, and honor his views, without making you a doormat and both show that you have insight and are able to change.
That's where the lack of friends comes into play, and I get lower and lower.
GAL and reaching out are the cures to this^^^....make it so. I know that's not always easy but it is simple; not complex. IT will also absolutely help with the cognitive work you want to do so you can stop cycling in anger and despair. I think there is on post support for you there and clubs to join and people to meet. Try not to be alone so much so you don't spiral negatively.
I do have a few plans lined up next week to try some new things and meet new people... This week is H's week off, so I can GAL because of the kids.
I can't tell you how much it means to know that there are strangers out there who care and understand my pain. Thank you all from the bottom of my broken heart.
You are very welcome. I had the vital help of some peeps on this board who remain here btw, from time to time. THey guided me through this and gave me hope.
Why do I believe there is hope in your sitch? (yes I do believe that)
B/c as the mother of his children, the choice to be with OW (or "DIP OP" or aka POS bf) means that he must justify it often.
IF your changes are real and lasting, and not merely tactics to get him back,
that gets to be VERY difficult to sustain. Essentially he'll have to tell himself
"So what if she's great and all I ever wanted her to be, now,
and so what if the kids miss her and she misses them and I broke up my family? I deserve HAPPINESS!!" --
and that gets harder to say out loud to others and to yourself...it just does. It begins to sound hollow and shallow and pretty damn selfish.
But know that just as that WAW felt about her h's "new outlook", for now, he does not believe your changes are lasting, but that they are tactics.
Only consistent change + sufficient time = Him believing the changes are real.
Whenever you lash out at him or rant, you confirm that it's just a tactic.
When you disparage Dip Op, you put him in the position of having to defend her. Bad idea.
I would probably never mention her...seriously, I would not at this time, view her as anything but a "less than me, not worthy of mentioning"-- she's a wishy washy opportunist who does NOT have the stomach for a long distance r with a new guy without a guaranteed return.
I don't see her having the fortitude of being newly single and not exploring other men...
(heck, in her shoes - there's no way I would not date if I just got my freedom back.) She's thinking "yeah you're a great guy but um, you want me to wait around for you for a YEAR while you are sep from your family--and w who seems to be all groovy and calm now--b/c you SAY you are sure you want out, & you think you want to have a real r with me later on - but in the meantime
I get to be lonely b/c I just lost my fake bff and now I can't date?? Gee that sounds appealing. (And with her "character", I think he'll be surprised at how bad betrayal feels...)
Plus, when he contacts you and the kids, while I'd be scarce at first, b/c it's easier to notice changes when there is some space/time apart (as opposed to daily contact which I happen to think is a slower way to show changes b/c it's harder to create mystery)
then I'd reveal the new you in pieces.
Part of that is going to be the "UBER ZEN Purg" who does NOT lose her cool or lash out b/c hey, she's different now...
she has evolved, and changed. She has all the great attractive traits that he fell in love with, but with a maturity and compassion and serenity she may have lacked at times before.
And I'd create mystery big time...if he brings up working to support yourself, you act as if you assumed that all along and you are looking forward to getting back out there and meeting NEW PEOPLE...
don't assume for a minute that he won't have regrets if he thinks, "Hey purg is all calm and appealing now and i went thru hell with her, just so she can NOW be all I wanted with some other guy?" But if you rant/rave, he'll feel relief to be gone and totally validated in his choice to leave.
I'm assuming you are getting an ablation of an arrythmia? IF so, they don't sukk as much as they sound like they will--just a guess on my end.
But I'd use the illness or health scare for added credibility for your changes & so it's not all about HIM, (which appears more tactical than lasting)
I'd use the health scares as another reason for the introspection and new found perspective on life.
And LIFE IS SHORT...how do you want to spend yours?
Finally, I love this analogy.
Say someone asked you "What if your life were a novel? Who is writing yours? How do you want the next chapter to go?"
What are your answers? So, be the author of your life. Don't let someone else write in your book with their actions or words. Don't give away your power.
PS I don't know where you are assigned but look up Essential Experience in Philadelphia and see if you can attend one of their workshops. They are life changing and profound. For someone in your shoes they'd be particularly useful. And they're not weird or culty.
For now, and "from this day forward", be your best self.
I think there's a good reason those words are in our marriage vows.
PS
if your h died overseas, God forbid, and enough time had passed that your grief had largely dissipated....b/c we know you would not curl up in the fetal position forever...you have kids and a spine...so
what would a happy life for you look like? Envision that with details...
What can you create of that, now?
(mouth dropped open)
I am at a loss for words at this moment, I will need to read and re-read this AMAZING post, before I can respond.
I am overwhelmed at the care you chose to take by giving me such sound advice.I can't express how appreciative I am right now.
A quick response:
I live in Virginia, so PA isn't too far away, maybe I could go to that workshop on my weekend off. At least it's something to look into.
In regards to my health: I have a right to left ASD in my heart (common) with an enlarged right side pressures (uncommon). In addition, I my oxygen decrease to 80% whenever my heart rate reaches over 140 (and my resting rate is 110, so it's doesn't take much). With this chronic hypoxia, they are concerned about blood clots, and extra concerned that the blood clot could go across the hole and back into the blood stream, before being filtered by the lungs- and possibly cause a stroke. They are currently testing to discover the cause of the enlarged right side- 2 different pulmonologists think that it's 'pulmonary hypertension'. Unusual for my age, but non the less... apparently, the valve off the right side going to the lungs starts to close up for some reason (the triggers vary and aren't specific) so then the right side of the heart has to pump extra hard to get blood to flow to the lungs. It's degenerative, no cure- treated with steroids. Life expectancy (depending on drug effectiveness) is 10-20 years. I have a heart catheterization coming up to officially diagnose and another surgery to close the hole... then who knows what type of treatments/meds. I will need if I am officially diagnosed.
I do have a few things in my favor:
* my age. They say that the meds will probably be more effective on someone my age instead of the 'normal' patient whose in their 50's or 60's. One of my doctors even said he would love to write a piece on me (if I'm diagnosed) because of my unusual circumstances: age and ASD... that could be cool!
* the leading doctor for this disease- who discovered and named it 30 years ago- is at Duke Univ., only a 3.5 hour drive from me.
[probably more than you needed to know, but I felt the need to explain/clarify. And I apologize to any medical people out there if I butchered the explanation- it's my layman's terms so I can understand what's happening to me.]
My personal sitch has affected my health lately because of all the crying. I hyperventilate, which causes the oxygen to decrease and then I pass out. H has found me a few times (after a panic attack) lying on the floor. It doesn't take long before I'm awake and functioning again... but scary if no one is around. I would hate for my S6 to be the one who finds mommy on the floor. I can't wait to get this taken care of so I don't have to worry about not being there for my kids- especially with H leaving for a year.
I'm need to find my inner strength to not react to H and OW, to not speak what is on my mind, control my temper and filter it out somewhere else.... not only for my sanity but for my health too.
What really helped me make it through the hardest times at the beginning, was just telling myself to act. Pretending I was in a movie.
Now that I have been in it a few months my calmness is genuine (that took months) but it the beginning I would just fake it. In my mind I keep repeating that I dont want to give him any satisfaction of thinking he is right that I do lose my cool
Thanks Bklyn. I was really getting good at 'acting' around Christmas time- hadn't mastered it, but was getting better.
I know that I need to get back there, and I think I can do it quicker.... but this new "bomb" feels like I'm going through a second D.
Let me know what y'all think about this gem:
(a little background) OW's 16 year old D is my goddaughter (OW is my boys' godM too- I'm seriously questioning the values she will be displaying to my kids and hers.) She and I would spend 1:1 time at least once a week, if not more. My H had stepped up as the guy in her life when her dad starting the abuse on her. She always said we are her second parents- a closeness I have come to regret. But in any case, I still love and care about her as if she was my own- and it kills me to not be around her right now.
I texted D16 tonight to apologize for not being around lately. She said: "My mom told me what [H] said to her and that she hasn't made a decision. I understand why you can't be around right now"
WHY WOULD OW TELL HER DAUGHTER THIS??? I was disgusted that she chose to involve her D into this new sitch, and not even having a clear decision or path to take. Can we say confusing for her D??? I simply responded: "I'm sorry you had to find out. I love you sweetie. Please call/or text me if you ever need to talk." I could smack OW right now for being so childish as to use her 16 year old as a 'friend' to lean on- selfish much???
I can only imagine all the confusion that is about to come from all of our kids if H and OW decide to pursue this. I can't be there to ease the blow for her kids, but I can do it for my boys.
This whole thing makes me sick. I can't believe these 2 selfish, self-centered people are the same ones that I have loved and cared about for so many years.
I know that H is in crisis and OW is the easiest transition (a fact that 25 has helped me to realize) because she's a known entity. She's been a close friend and source of comfort through our troubles- so of course he's experienced things with her that he was missing with me. I really think its' cowardly of both of them to pick the path of least resistance.
I have had the bad thoughts that this could last for a long time because they already know each other and won't have to waste time with intimacies. But then I'm reminded, that neither of them have *lived* with each other- where the *true* person comes out. They've really only experienced the 'event' person: going to the beach, fishing, thanksgiving dinners, game nights... not the person who's cranky in the am and lays around on the couch not cleaning up after himself; and she's the one who is a jealous/untrusting person- who follows around like a puppy and doesn't speak her mind. Thinking about both of their 'negatives' gives me 'positive' thoughts about their R... a little evil of me, but it works.
Sometimes I'm shocked that I still want a M with this guy. But then I remember- that I don't love this 'alien' whose in crisis and being mean just because he can... i love the H that would make me a dozen origami roses for Valentines each year (partly because we were always broke early on, AND because he said they lasted forever- just like his love). I've actually thought about making one and leaving it somewhere for him to find this valentines... as a small reminder of the man he used to be (it could end up biting me in the @ss though.) I love the H that wore the T-shirt he proposed to me in, every year on our anniversary. I love the H that didn't sleep or eat during either of my labors- because: "if you have to suffer this much to bring my child in the world, I can suffer a little too." I love the H that took and entire week off of work to isolate me and be my nursemaid when I had swineflu while pregnant with our second son. He did and showed his love for me in so many different ways- I kick myself in the butt for not being able to step up to the plate when he told me he wasn't happy.
I really appreciate having this board to get out all the crazy thoughts- so that I don't loose my cool and take it out on either of them. I think I can keep my mouth shut more often in front of H (because I don't plan on ever seeing her again) as long as I can get them out somewhere... so sorry guys, you are the victims of my ranting and raving for now. I apologize in advance if I start to sound like a broken record.
Thanks for being my lifeline.
you don't sound like a broken record (yet) and your reply to your Godchild was...in a word, Godly.
Good for you. It's exactly what I would have said.
Don't expect the d to openly turn against her mom, and tell YOU
but she may confide in a friend, and say "WTF?!!"
Heck YES she'd be confused. And sooo disappointed in her mom. (I can't imagine) Oh, and considering what her father sounded like, she's batting 0 for 2 w/parents...real nice role models...
You could probably maintain contact with her in some FB or private way and never ever bring up POS or h. [i]But that may have to wait awhile.
[/i]
Hey sidenote--my h is an MD and says he's done the ASD surgeries (that is he does anesthesia for the surgeries,) and feels your odds are much better than you are hearing. Just saying that the modern surgeries for patch placement or defect repair is a lot safer than before. Maybe your info is old. Don't be hopeless about that please. You have plenty of years left here.
Get 2nd opinions if you need to - and yes you can do that in the military.
Take care of yourself, make new friends, GAL and hold your head high.
I wanted to respond to this great post from 25, she gave me some insights and a little hope. Her original post is in red, my responses are purple.
There are some behavioral tips I'll post here that helped me when my mind was on the freeway and couldn't "take the damn exit ramp"...
you will need to take the exit soon so you can get to the "scenic overlook", take stock and NOT REACT - but make a "campaign plan" and implement it...
DB coaches are great for that, and if your IC isn't, ask her to be. You need "instructions" more or less.
My IC is pretty good about giving me a 'task list'... I have a rough time always sticking to it. I fall back into old habits and this makes me mad because those *habits* are what led to the break-up in the first place, so really don't need to give H anymore ammunition with our current sitch.
Purg, First, be brave & strong now or you won't learn what you have to learn in order to make it....but look at this with all the honesty and insight you can, if only just for a minute...take a breath & see how your h sees most of the past 6 years...and check your first post if you need to, but if you want to get a scorecard out for justices/injustices in the marriage, would you really come out far ahead? In his eyes, he has the high ground for now. [i]And for now, maybe he does. How can you change that? Change YOU...[/i]
[color:#6600CC]Nope. I have more negatives that positives right now. I never thought about the idea of him thinking he has the 'high ground'- through that filter, a lot of his words make more sense.
Per my Godsent DB coach
Hard lesson #1--it is NOT the spouses job to show their WAS the "consequences of their actions" or "teach them a lesson".
I've been guilty of thinking this ^^^. I wish I could afford to call a DB coach right now.
Aside from it looking punitive (which it is, and which you already know AND which backfires big time every time)
LIFE does this for us!
The WAS will learn the hard way if they choose a bad path & stay on it. They will face numerous explanations for how they met, and the KIDS WILL KNOW forever...and their r's w/their own children will never be what they could have been. YOU cannot be the one to tell them this, or predict it to your h, or you will be vilified and seen as the cause.
I really hope you're right about this. I have not been able to convince my self that he will ever feel guilty about explaining his choices.
instead, if you behave like the dignified woman who has been punched in the stomach but STILL picks herself up, dusts herself off, & puts her kids ahead of her pride without losing her self respect, YOU will prevail over time.
I wish I could accept how LONG of time this will actually take. In another post (the WAW to LBS) She said how "6 months of changes and being a better you, doesn't make up for all the years of rejections and hurt." I think I fall into this category- I expect that he will be pleased that I made such a quick turn around and take me back... not gonna happen.
TIPS for congitive behavior therapy (aka 25's "mind control" secrets)
1) stop sign for evil thoughts....Put it in your head that you have to STOP this, and be discplined enough to stop it, if only for a few minutes at a time.I try to do this when I have a task/moment with the kids. AS soon as I'm not distracted, the thoughts creep back in... I want to be able to stop it for longer periods of time.
The evil thoughts of revenge do not help your cause. Granted, there are LBSers who LOVE exploring their anger & they would say, "it's the JUSTICE of it all!" and "but I'm RIGHT and they are wrong!!..." but they forget that this is not about being right. It's about being happy Revenge won't help your cause or even give you peace. It only appeals to your anger and that's NOT helping you, your body, your children or your m.
I will need to read this paragraph over and over until it's tattooed on my brain.
2) Every day in the shower or wherever you can gain some privacy, say out loud "God, I turn my pain and anger over to you. I lay this marriage in your hands"...
Some days, I said this literally 100 times, esp right before h would call. It helped calm me and thinking it, saying it and hearing it somehow make it sink in...
The shower has been my only solace. It's the only place that no one bothers me and I can block out the sounds of my house. I usually try to get all my crying out in there, so H can't hear me and I won't have the evidence of mascara running down my face.
3) come up with other helpful mantras and do them as well. Such as"I only control now and 'from this day forward'. Help me be my best NOW"... I'd put some self help books or some of Marianne Williamson's books on my IPOD and would go on LONG walks (aka "25's Fury Marches") b/c she has written a lot on "Handling Fear & Anger" and though she's new agey for some, for ME she helped with this exact issue. HOW to let go and begin healing and forgiving...
I'll look her up and give it a try- I'm willing to try ANYTHING at this point!
Also had playlists for grief so sometimes I could let go and cry hard about it but only in a safe place.
I have that same kind of playlist too... I listen to it in the shower.
First of all- it IS mostly a positive that he's sharing these things, overrall, as much as it sukks to hear. Second, your reaction MATTERS so don't lose it or rant. I LOVE that he has noticed.
[color:#6600CC]He's mentioned and noticed a lot of my changes. He's even said: "I like this [purg] much better." I said: "I like her too." It kills me inside to know that even with all of his recognition, it doesn't change his mind.
Adopt the two phrases that validate, without escalating, and which show change on YOUR End...
plus - no offense--but your memory is either conveniently self serving when it comes to forgetting your outbursts AND OR
you had some untreated diagnosis that YOU WILL GET treatment for, so it will NOT keep happening, and he can trust that will change your behavior & it will be credible....make sense?
Makes complete sense. I have not forgotten what I did to get into this sitch, in fact, I've never tried to justify or make excuses when he brings things up. I've only recently become aware of my fugue states (and they haven't happened in a long time and will be fixed with my heart/lung issues. My doctor's and C have worked together to identify and help me.) I have come to accept that his version of our history, is different that my version... but it's *his* that I need to address.
1) so for the marital revisions that surprise you, you say
"H, I don't recall it that way (or at all) but I'm so sorry you were hurt/upset."
2) for the memories he brings up that are valid, the fights or the times he was hurt that you recall or believe, or concede are possible, say
"Sorry H, if I could do it all over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
I've said similar things to him, but I do good when I have a 'script' to follow- I will try to learn these phrases and use them.
You are very welcome. I had the vital help of some peeps on this board who remain here btw, from time to time. THey guided me through this and gave me hope.
Why do I believe there is hope in your sitch? (yes I do believe that)
WHAT?? REALLY?? I'm surprised that you can see this 'working out'... I'll lean on your hopes for now.
B/c as the mother of his children, the choice to be with OW (or "DIP OP" or aka POS bf) means that he must justify it often.
Is this what he's doing when he brings up things like:"I've felt alone for 6 years, I'm done with that." "If I don't have to be alone, I won't be" "I can't get past all the hurt, and there is no way we will ever be more than friends." ???
IF your changes are real and lasting, and not merely tactics to get him back,[/b]
that gets to be VERY difficult to sustain. Essentially he'll have to tell himself
"So what if she's great and all I ever wanted her to be, now, and so what if the kids miss her and she misses them and I broke up my family? I deserve HAPPINESS!!" --and that gets harder to say out loud to others and to yourself...it just does.
I really hope it does. I can't ever imagine H having a hard time saying these things to himself or others.... think it will take years? Months? Will there be anyway that being in AFG (away from me and OW) will help to clarify things for him? I feel that he'll just miss her because of the 'fantasy' that he will be able to create in his mind about their R.
It begins to sound hollow and shallow and pretty damn selfish.
But know that just as that WAW felt about her h's "new outlook", for now, he does not believe your changes are lasting, but that they are tactics.
Only consistent change + sufficient time = Him believing the changes are real.
I wish we could put some numbers in that ^^^^ equation. But I know that no one has the crystal ball to know exactly how long this will take.
Whenever you lash out at him or rant, you confirm that it's just a tactic. When you disparage Dip Op, you put him in the position of having to defend her. Bad idea.
I did that the day I found out about her feelings. And yes he did defend her... which made me even more angry. It was a backslide that I immediately regretted. Can I recover his impression?
I would probably never mention her...seriously, I would not at this time, view her as anything but a "less than me, not worthy of mentioning"
I LOVE this! Yes! She isn't worth the breath that it would take to talk about her.
I don't see her having the fortitude of being newly single and not exploring other men...(heck, in her shoes - there's no way I would not date if I just got my freedom back.)
I think that's why she said: "I don't want to date right now, but in the future I could see that with [H]." She's a coward who can't even try to learn someone new- she has to jump to the easy target who she's already gotten to know as a friend. Coward! It's pathetic how the first guy who says he has an interest in her, she jumps on it. She needs to be validated ALL THE TIME and H said the 'magic words' to her.
She's thinking "yeah you're a great guy but um, you want me to wait around for you for a YEAR while you are sep from your family--and w who seems to be all groovy and calm now--b/c you SAY you are sure you want out, & you think you want to have a real r with me later on - but in the meantime I get to be lonely b/c I just lost my fake bff and now I can't date?? Gee that sounds appealing.
(And with her "character", I think he'll be surprised at how bad betrayal feels...)
OW is very insecure. She's never stood on her own two feet- always had a man to take care of her. She went from her family home, into a M at 19 with her H and has never worked outside the home. I'm afraid that she would sit around waiting for him, instead of putting herself out into the dating world- because she's needy. I really hope I'm wrong. But in his absence, I won't be there to be a friend to spend time with.... hopefully she will feel lonely.
Plus, when he contacts you and the kids, while I'd be scarce at first, b/c it's easier to notice changes when there is some space/time apart (as opposed to daily contact which I happen to think is a slower way to show changes b/c it's harder to create mystery) then I'd reveal the new you in pieces.
How do I 'reveal' over emails, phone or skype??
Part of that is going to be the "UBER ZEN Purg" who does NOT lose her cool or lash out b/c hey, she's different now...she has evolved, and changed. She has all the great attractive traits that he fell in love with, but with a maturity and compassion and serenity she may have lacked at times before.I REALLY WANT to be this person again. When he met me, I was top of my class in college, had a huge social life... he had to pursue me for 3 weeks before I even agreed to have a date! I don't know which magic combination of traits 'grabbed' him.... but I want to be that person again- because I felt REALLY GOOD about myself back then.
And I'd create mystery big time...if he brings up working to support yourself, you act as if you assumed that all along and you are looking forward to getting back out there and meeting NEW PEOPLE...
I have a job interview today! When I mentioned it to H, he was surprised because he didn't even know I had put in an application.
don't assume for a minute that he won't have regrets if he thinks, "Hey purg is all calm and appealing now and i went thru hell with her, just so she can NOW be all I wanted with some other guy?" But if you rant/rave, he'll feel relief to be gone and totally validated in his choice to leave.
I have a hard time seeing that he would ever think this, but hey, I'll take your word because you've been there before. He's actually said: "I'm glad you've made changes so the next guy won't have to go through what I did." (It was like a slap across my face!)
Finally, I love this analogy.
Say someone asked you "What if your life were a novel? Who is writing yours? How do you want the next chapter to go?"
What are your answers? So, be the author of your life. Don't let someone else write in your book with their actions or words. Don't give away your power.
A great analogy to keep in mind for the whole DB process!
For now, and "from this day forward", be your best self.
I think there's a good reason those words are in our marriage vows.
I wish that H would think about some of those other vows: for better or worse
How do I 'reveal' over emails, phone or skype??
----------------------
You CAN do this! I did!! When we first returned from our horrible trip, I was DBing like no-ones business and it was all in this manner. Minus phone calls actually as P stopped phoning me a long time ago.
Make your emails shorter, use less explanations, be busy (or pretend to be if need be - this is EASY long distance!) If you're FB users, make sure to update your page with happy news BEFORE you tell him. IE: a simple status update of "GOT THE JOB!!!" and then wait for him to see it and then ask about it. No sappy emails, no wistful emails. Skype, WHEN you're available (don't always be!! Keep your Skype OFF!) make sure to look good, (not street walker good, but GOOD!) Make sure to update him on stuff you did on your own that you NORMALLY would have sought his help/opinion for. IE: something around the house, a decision about the kids. And make sure to give him an update like... XYZ happened, I did ABC to fix it. It turned out great! And only tell him about it once solved. DOn't try and stay bonded by asking his opinion on stuff (super tempting... I know!!!) Emails, phone calls, Skype, don't always be available. When receiving contact from him, if possible, fully digest what he says and don't respond for a while. And in the case (if there is the case..) that he sends you an email that has no open-ended questions to you. DON'T ANSWER AT ALL. Leave the ball in his court. Make sure you're super nice, but not overly, and smile alot. Re: Skype. Try to get it so that he approaches you for a Skype 'date' rather than just being online.
The above was working REALLY well for me. I blew it by finding all the online dating activities and ruining all my DBing success. DON'T falter!
One thing I've noticed, when you're long distance, the smallest amount of contact kind of 'fills your tank' and makes you feel good, validated. Well when DBing long distance, I found (in my case) that the more contact I received, the EASIER it was to stay semi-detached. Kind of like working out, once you start seeing the results, your WAY more motivated to work out more!
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I really hope it does. I can't ever imagine H having a hard time saying these things to himself or others.... think it will take years? Months? Will there be anyway that being in AFG (away from me and OW) will help to clarify things for him? I feel that he'll just miss her because of the 'fantasy' that he will be able to create in his mind about their R.
------
I don't know your H, but I think it will be quite the opposite. He may fantasize but A-Stan will most likely bring reality crashing down over his head like a good 2x4 should, at an much quicker pace.
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He's actually said: "I'm glad you've made changes so the next guy won't have to go through what I did." (It was like a slap across my face!)
----
Ugg... Mine did too. And he also said he was so relieved I we were breaking up amicably (back in Thailand when I told him I didn't want to continue as we were). Me at this point having no idea he was on dating sites and had already mentally checked-out of our R.
I told MY h that I was glad he was finally going to be a great h...for his next w.
I meant it but I was also resentful of it. So, there's that.
Can't give you a timeline but they say a month of consistent change for every year of marriage so by the time he leaves, your job is to have shown consistent change in YOU and how you react to upsetting news--for him to believe that maybe your changes are real.
And Something WILL be upsetting between now and then, like finding out his assignment on an email--(don't know if this was your sitch or one11's, but you cannot make an issue of something like that.) Prepare yourself for some Mother Teresa patience...
oh and here are other DB tips I got from my Godsent coach.
1)
Lose the anger, at least in front of him
2)
Keep the Road Home, Paved & Smooth
don't make it harder for him to come home than it already would be...
3)
Applaud loudly for the 1% of positives he does...
(sometimes this is hard, like Mother Teresa hard - but it SO helps)
4) GAL and learn to DetachSmack yourself in the head BEFORE you lose your temper in front of this man or POS OP...just lose the anger--put it somewhere else if you can't "lose it".
Here's something that helped me in a lot of ways.
H was due to leave in May to go to the tundra without US so to me that would end the marriage...period.
But he had a conference in Feb in Palm Springs and asked us all to go. I balked. I thought it would be awkward and weird and that
it would somehow reward him for leaving soon by pretending all was well.
No way!! I was against it.
Thankfully my DB coach slapped me sober with this question--"if it's the last vacation you'll have together, why not make it wonderful for your kids AND give him something to miss?"
Oh...that...
So for four days, I decided to shelve all my pain and anger (said my mantras hourly)
and NOT be negative.
For FOUR DAYS I would not view ANYTHING H did in a negative light.
I'd switch it to positive or at worst, neutralize it.
This meant that Instead of seeing h as a nerd who monopolizes conversation in the car ride, I chose to see him as a well educated dad teaching his kids.
Sounds simple and it is but we rarely do this. INstead we focus on a negative spin and then want to correct it. Lesson learned. That's not loving. (Also not fun)
There were times bad fears or anger would creep or jump back in, but I'd tell myself "25, you can be angry LATER!" and I'm sorry to admit that thought comforted me...
at least it kept my anger hidden or shelved. Like I said, I just had to do it for four days...that's about 100 hours, and some of that is sleeping. It is doable.
It was not easy at first, and I did the "Stop Sign" a lot.
But we were in a new place and there were no reminders of our situation and somehow it kind of worked partially Within 30 hours. The new me behaved for a day and a half UBER ZEN LIKE and h began to noticably relax. He touched my hand more and complimented me. We both smiled as did the kids.
We went horseback riding and I could tell the girls were SO relieved there was no tension.
I knew that at the very least, they'd have good memories. WORTH IT!!
I determined by the 2nd day that there was NO WAY I'd be the one to blow it and I'd go the whole time. You could have called me Mother Teresa 25 for those 4 days. Saw comedies, went hiking, hugged the kids more and listened for their wishes about what to do next, etc.
Had a blast....and h was kinder and more attentive to all of us.
I think I had gotten a glimpse of what forgiveness looks like.
I wanted his last memories of us to be good ones no matter what else, and I wanted the girls to remember us as once being a happy family.
I figured h had to miss something - and no one misses an angry shrew, so I contrasted those images he had of my "disappointed wife" face, with the "new 25"...and it helped us a lot.
Hope this helps.
111- Thanks for the tips!
I will HAVE to skype with hims for the kids, but I can make myself 'unavailable' and step aside while he talks with the kids.
I do have one concern about one of your suggestions: Making choices on my own and just telling him about it. *This* was a symptom of our break-up: I was *too* independent (while he was home and deployed.) He always said that he felt like I didn't need him at all in my life because I never asked his opinion nor asked for help. I totally understand your reasoning for these actions- but I think it would be another reminder to my H of why he left me. I will not be completely needy of him, but I do want to show him that I value his opinion and he is still needed in my life for our kids and our house- this is a 180 for me.
I also don't want to run the risk of OW being the 'needy' one (since she already is.)
H thrives on being a problem solver- I don't want her to be the only one asking him for help... because that just encourages his decision to leave me.
[I KNOW that I shouldn't allow projections/assumptions about them to drive my actions]
I agree-180s vary for the couple.
Sounds as if you need to let him feel he is the leader of the family and you are his helpmate...reliable and strong, but that he is in a position of honor in your eyes...
not "above" you but cherished BY you..
make sense?
What really helped me make it through the hardest times at the beginning, was just telling myself to act. Pretending I was in a movie.
Now that I have been in it a few months my calmness is genuine (that took months) but it the beginning I would just fake it. In my mind I keep repeating that I dont want to give him any satisfaction of thinking he is right that I do lose my cool
There should be an Academy Awards Night for DBers...but then again, some of the WASs would win
for only seeming to be happy and "acting happy" but secretly "being miserable FOR YEARS" and never showing it...amazing. So many of them missed their calling.
111- Thanks for the tips!
I will HAVE to skype with hims for the kids, but I can make myself 'unavailable' and step aside while he talks with the kids.
I do have one concern about one of your suggestions: Making choices on my own and just telling him about it. *This* was a symptom of our break-up: I was *too* independent (while he was home and deployed.) He always said that he felt like I didn't need him at all in my life because I never asked his opinion nor asked for help. I totally understand your reasoning for these actions- but I think it would be another reminder to my H of why he left me. I will not be completely needy of him, but I do want to show him that I value his opinion and he is still needed in my life for our kids and our house- this is a 180 for me.
I also don't want to run the risk of OW being the 'needy' one (since she already is.)
H thrives on being a problem solver- I don't want her to be the only one asking him for help... because that just encourages his decision to leave me.
[I KNOW that I shouldn't allow projections/assumptions about them to drive my actions]
25- HELPS BIG TIME!!
Your example of how you 'survived' 4 days, is a comfort and gives me some ideas to start trying now. I especially like how you chose to 'spin' the negatives into positives. *It's always bothered me how I come home after running errands or something- and the house is a disaster (even though it wasn't when I left) I used to say: "This house didn't look like this when I left, why does it now?" (really b!tchy, huh?!) so I just don't say anything anymore... Maybe I could 'spin' it like this in my head: My H was so busy playing and being a great dad, that cleaning up doesn't matter. And actually never say anything about it? Is that what you were talking about- look at things through "love colored glasses", instead of our normal irritated reactions?
H has mentioned that he will want to spend some time with just me and the kids before he leaves... that's 4 more months away, so we'll see if he still feels that way.
========
Today:
Really proud of myself, but I feel icky. H sent me an email about a few scheduling things this week, but he also included: 'Hope last night was better with [S18mth] and GOOD LUCK on your interview today!'
I only responded to the scheduling questions, and didn't fill in any details about my night or the job. (this is not what I would normally do) H never sent another email. That makes me feel icky, but I realize that if I had given a story or asked any questions, that would have been pursuing because I would have been trying to keep up the communications. It's driving me nuts not to just send him a 'how's your day going' text... but I need to detach for my own sanity.
Others have said that when they detached, their WAS started to pull back on them.... I'm highly skeptical that H will do this. But I'm counting this as day one on my *uber* detaching efforts.
Yay!
One small step...
Listening to the radio while I try to distract myself by cleaning the kitchen (not my favorite form of distraction, but it needs to be done)
Anyways....
These 3 songs came on back to back:
Katy Perry: "The one that got away" (In another life, I would make you stay...)
Gavin DeGraw: "Not over you" (I would lie and say you're not on my mind... and finally Im forced to face the truth: no matter what I say, I'm not over you..)
Radiohead: "Creep" (I want you to notice when I'm not around... what the he!! am I doing here, I don't belong here...")
Is this cruel or what?! What is the universe saying to me???
25- HELPS BIG TIME!!
Your example of how you 'survived' 4 days, is a comfort and gives me some ideas to start trying now. I especially like how you chose to 'spin' the negatives into positives. *It's always bothered me how I come home after running errands or something- and the house is a disaster (even though it wasn't when I left) I used to say: "This house didn't look like this when I left, why does it now?" (really b!tchy, huh?!) so I just don't say anything anymore... Maybe I could 'spin' it like this in my head: My H was so busy playing and being a great dad, that cleaning up doesn't matter. And actually never say anything about it? Is that what you were talking about- look at things through "love colored glasses", instead of our normal irritated reactions?
Yes and no. Yes to the positive spin love colored glasses (playing seemed more important to me anyhow) but "no" to the silence about the mess -
b/c instead, recall the rule about "applauding loudly for the 1% positives"...so you insert, and THANK Him for playing with the kids...
(um-yes I told you it can be hard)
EXAMPLE-
H had left to join his heroes on the "Last Frontier", but he had always paid ALL our bills for 20+ years, ahead of time,
(NOTE: in truth he didn't seem happy while doing it. Selfishly, I ignored that or gave it no thought).
So a few weeks after he left, I found the power guy here to turn our electricity off for non payment. Oh gee, too bad h forgot to tell me h wasnt' paying the bills anymore...AND so out of character for H --
which screamed "MLC" which = "so selfish and doesn't even think of us at all, and blah blah blah -he's an evil monster!'
So I wrote a huge check to the power guy, and then paged h so I could blast him -
BUT I had a DB session scheduled for then, which was right before he called back, thank GOD...
So when he called, I mentioned the electricity almost getting cut off (and the wildfires getting closer to us-and NO h did not come down to help but suggested instead, that we "Come up" there...sure, that's a sane idea....)
SO the first thing he said when I told him the power fill didn't get paid was, "Hope it doesn't hurt MY credit..." which was amazing in it's pure self centeredness.
I chose to see that as a joke b/c: 1) maybe it was?? and 2) acting like he was joking made the same point as bitching would have, but was less confrontational or adversarial.
Anyhow, I told him it was a "surprise" that he had not paid it and he interrupted me to blurt out in an angry loud tone--
"Now YOU see what it's like to have to pay the bills all these years like I've been doing for 23 years!!!"
Only Because I'd had a great DB session minutes before,
I was able to say
"And I want to THANK YOU for that h, b/c now I know how stressful it can be."
I could not SEE his jaw drop, but I know a long silent time followed...at least 10 seconds - but maybe 30? Then he said "you're welcome" in a soft shocked voice.
He was so expecting me to rant and rave, which I would have done in my Pre-DB self, that he was taken aback.
As small an interchange as that was, for ME it was a new way of seeing him AND a new way of interacting with him, that a light bulb went off in my head,
and for HIM i know it was a shock...and a new way of hearing me.
H has mentioned that he will want to spend some time with just me and the kids before he leaves... that's 4 more months away, so we'll see if he still feels that way.
This^^^ is GOOD news!!! But what's with the "wait to see" test? YOU can plan something fun. Talk about a 180.
Can you do a one day thing first, like an amusement park or picnic or fishing, then an overnight and then a weekend?
This way you can Do the "Mother Teresa Does Not Anger NOW" exercises and build up your saintly endurance.
Each positive memory you create, is a gift for your children & you, and another page in the marriage book of THIS NEW chapter....
It'll be these final memories that will be freshest in your h's mind when he deploys...Not a bad strategy.
========
Today:
Really proud of myself, but I feel icky. H sent me an email about a few scheduling things this week, but he also included: 'Hope last night was better with [S18mth] and GOOD LUCK on your interview today!'
I only responded to the scheduling questions, and didn't fill in any details about my night or the job. (this is not what I would normally do)
I don't get why you don't see this^^^ as JUST a positive sign of interest on his part and then leave it alone. No more examining for a way to spin it negatively.
Please understand the intrinsic value of assuming the best about our spouse's and their intentions.
Until if and when they prove otherwise, it only helps your m, and your peace of mind, AND it gives them something to live UP to rather than fulfilling negative expectations. There's no downside to thinking well of him at this point, given the givens.
H never sent another email. That makes me feel icky,
why? b/c he didn't follow up on the questions you chose to ignore?
Maybe he figured you did not want to talk about them, b/c maybe it did not go well. That's how I would have taken your silence.
Don't set him up for failure or test him...esp if you're seeing him negatively. I think you'll be much happier once you have Worked on this.
but I realize that if I had given a story or asked any questions, that would have been pursuing because I would have been trying to keep up the communications. It's driving me nuts not to just send him a 'how's your day going' text... but I need to detach for my own sanity.
did you read those posts on detachment? (I did send them to YOU, right? Geez, I am posting here so much recently that I can't keep my threads straight)...
Others have said that when they detached, their WAS started to pull back on them.... I'm highly skeptical that H will do this. But I'm counting this as day one on my *uber* detaching efforts.
Detachment is first and foremost for YOU...here's a relevant piece to remember
Detachment is critical to the process of altering and repairing a relationship.
Attached, we take personally all that is said, not said, done and not done. Our ego gets wounded and we are more inclined to do things that will undermine our very best chances of accomplishing our goals.by detaching, the first positive result is that YOU DO NOT take all that is said, unsaid, etc personally and
YOU do NOT GET WOUNDED b/c you don't attach your self esteem to what he does thinks or plans OR what you fear he is doing planning or thinking....you DETACH.
To me the one sentence, that reduces it, but helps ME to prepare me for detachment is:
"Be your best, do your best, and leave the results up to God."So you first detach for self protection.
That gives you the space to think more clearly (I really hope you go to EE before he goes...I think there's one in April??-but nonetheless it'll help you at any stage of this process. I just figure the sooner the better)
when you think more clearly b/c you are not so attached to the immediate outcome-
then you act and behave more rationally and clearly. That's a 180 for you too.
((( )))
Listening to the radio while I try to distract myself by cleaning the kitchen (not my favorite form of distraction, but it needs to be done)
Anyways....
These 3 songs came on back to back:
Katy Perry: "The one that got away" (In another life, I would make you stay...)
Gavin DeGraw: "Not over you" (I would lie and say you're not on my mind... and finally Im forced to face the truth: no matter what I say, I'm not over you..)
Radiohead: "Creep" (I want you to notice when I'm not around... what the he!! am I doing here, I don't belong here...")
Is this cruel or what?! What is the universe saying to me???
"Dear Purgatory...
This is the Universe saying "You need to GAL more, so you don't pay attention to songs that are NOT connected, lyrically or situationally, to you, Nor are they aimed at you. Go be happy."
Love, the Universe
ps
go put a positive sounding OPTIMISTIC playlist on your radio and create a good musical ambience
OR
put on "The Power of Now" by Echart Tolle b/c his voice is soothing and somehow the book made more sense when he reads it to you or some other self help book
OR go outside and stop the "noise" from getting in you.
or sign up for EE b/c you will save yourself for sure
and you May save your m.
((( )))
Dear Purgatory,
I am caught up on your thread. Wow, we have a lot in common. I am sorry you are going through all this.
I am loving all the great advise you are being given.
Your hear condition sounds scary. I have minor heart failure myself. Not related to any blockage, but from having had a heart attack at some point and not knowing about it.
I spent years telling docs the internet said it was my heart. Ha, the internet was right. I got pretty sick before they finally did the right tests. I am now on medicine, weigh less, am in better shape and doing well.
My husband acts like it is something I play up. (I do not.) I had tried to tell him how different my life is now that I have it under control. Now I know just not to talk to him because he is hearing everything thru his "ME" filter.
Do you think your heart condition has anything to do with your situation? Is your husband scared, a little? A lot?
I'm going to go back and re-read all your thread. There was a lot to absorb.
Aloha,
Wendy
not to talk for purg but an ASD is a congenital defect in the heart so he did not "cause" it.
Sorry for your sitch wen, but I can't find your orig thread. What's it called?
25 said: "This way you can Do the "Mother Teresa Does Not Anger NOW" exercises and build up your saintly endurance."
This made me Laugh out Loud!! My dog even looked at me funny. I read it in a caveman's voice... but you are so right!! In thinking about it, I usually left H to make plans for vacations- because we usually had to schedule around his job, but H would always tell me that he felt like I didn't want to spend time with him because I never too the initiative. I *should* plan a day trip for the family and build up to a weekend away.... that's now added to my goals list
Wendy: I've read your thread too, and I know that your BFF became the OW too... any ideas you can give me to deal with this emotional blow would be greatly appreciated! My heart/lung condition did not *cause* my problems in the M, but in hindsight, my post-partum psychosis combined with my low oxygen, led to some VERY irrational behaviors and also led to lapses in my memories of those extreme instances. My H remembers them all, unfortunately. I have recently come to accept that our versions of history are different.
H is concerned about my health. He won't say much more than that- but he has always been someone who keeps things that scare him, close to his chest. So if he's really scared of losing me in anyway- he's never expressed it. I think deep down he care a lot because he dropped everything at work and came to my last set of tests (even though I never told him to come) after I mentioned that I was a little nervous... and he's planning on coming to my next 2 tests this week. He told me: "I will be in that waiting room even if you tell me not to come."
Today's GAL efforts:
I had a job interview! It won't pay as much as I hoped (in fact, the owner said she couldn't afford what I'm worth- very flattering) but, it will be something to get me out of the house and do something that I'm good at. I should know by the end of the week! I don't want to jinx it, so I'm not going to describe what/where it is
I also got invited to go to a new church tomorrow night (and Wednesdays are my nights off from the kids!) I haven't been to church in over 2 years, not that I'm against it- just never found the right one. So, I'm looking forward to meeting new people and hopefully lifting my spirits. H doesn't know about this, so I plan on just leaving the house- dressed nice- and saying: "thanks for babysitting the boys."
Purg is slowly coming out from under the rock.... one finger at a time.
[/quote]
"Dear Purgatory...
This is the Universe saying "You need to GAL more, so you don't pay attention to songs that are NOT connected, lyrically or situationally, to you, Nor are they aimed at you. Go be happy."
Love, the Universe
[/quote]
Like ^^^^^
"Dear Purgatory...
This is the Universe saying "You need to GAL more, so you don't pay attention to songs that are NOT connected, lyrically or situationally, to you, Nor are they aimed at you. Go be happy."
Love, the Universe Trying this again, LIKE^^^
Hey Purgatory and 25!
I am so darn bad with words. I wasn't thinking her H caused the heart condition. I was thinking maybe her H is so scared, in addition to having a MLC, that he just can't deal with the seriousness of something like that. It is more like half a thought. My half a thought is caused by how my H is so dismissive of my problem. And by how darn surreal it was when my doctor told me I had "minor heart failure". He looked so stricken.
As to how to deal with the emotional blow of the BFF becoming the OW I am still working on that. I hate it because I still worry about her. We were only friends about 6 months before the 'body snatch'.
And she told me the first time we went to lunch I was going to be sorry I became her friend. I though it was just her strange sense of humor. Not her psychopath side.
But I felt sorry for her, because of how lonely she was, how she claimed all the other wives hated her because of the age difference between her and her husband. She also lied to me about her age. I thought she looked old for the age she claimed, but figured maybe she had just sun-worshipped too much.
Anyway, I try to just remember I have true friends, who support me now. I know that what comes around goes around.
I think your situation is tougher, God-parents!
@ 25 My first thread is here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...379#Post2198379Aloha,
Wendy
How old is the symptom (OW)?
Symptom- that made me laugh. Here's some background on her- maybe more than you need to know (kinda long) but it gives a better understanding of the extent of the sitch:
She is 33 and just filed for D from her H of 16 years because of abuse (never been with another man in her whole life). Her H has been deployed since July '11. He won't return until June this year, but not to our state- he has orders to go to Hawaii (a fact that we used to view as a relief so he can't 'just show up' at their house) She has 3 girls: 6,10 and 16 (the oldest is my GodD.)
The 4 of us (dip-op, her H, me and my H) did EVERYTHING together- and we were never aware of any abuse until he left this past July, and dip-op revealed all the years of abuse. She said she was never going to do anything until the girls were out of the house- but when she saw H starting to do the same things to D16, she knew she had to do something. My H and I (we were still fine) stepped up to give her advice and strength to talk to a lawyer and start the process. It made the 3 of us closer... H and I paid for groceries and birthday parties because her H cut her off completely- until her lawyer stepped in. She's never had a job outside the home, she was cut off from any friends and her family all live 22 hours away... her H made sure that she was isolated from the rest of the world so he could hide who he really was behind closed doors.
So know that she has "a little freedom from her H" she's scared and confused about what to do. My H and I have been helping her learn how to pay bills on-line, order things on-line and encouraging her to GAL. She is the type of person that has never known anything other than being a housewife and mom- so GAL is scary for her because she doesn't trust anyone to babysit her girls. She and I were doing things a few times a week, while my H watched all our kids. She never could quite enjoy herself while we were out- she would call and check on the girls every hour. She and I spoke everyday about 8 times a day, if not more. She comforted me when H dropped the bomb, she calmed me down when I was hyperventilating... it makes me sick to think of all the deep feelings I shared with her.
I'm an only child- she was like my sister. In fact, we were able to 'fake' being actual sisters when she became very sick and I had to take her to the hospital.... I already knew her entire medical history and I was able to give the doctors a timeline of her issues- she and I look similar, so they never questioned that I wasn't her sister and they let me stay in the hospital with her (since her H was deployed.) I know this woman better than she knows herself and we were as close as two people could ever be.... how can she say to me: "but H is my friend too"... as if his friendship is more valuable than mine so she 'has a choice to make'????? This is what hurts the most!!
She's insecure, has major trust issues and low-confidence.... she when my H showed a little interest- it probably made her feel special, and she is desperate for attention. She views my H as the knight in shining armor that cares for her and her girls (apparently she forgets all the times that *I* stepped up more than him!) Even though I can understand why she was flattered.... it doesn't excuse her taking advantage of the first man who comes along- especially because he's my H!
I really hope that her insecurities become more prevalent to H (because he's not really experienced that side of her- and as a GF, she would be untrusting and jealous.) The other problem I have is that H never felt like *my* knight in shining armor- mostly my fault because I never let him help or 'save' me.... so he gets BIG ego boost from her through all her 'problems'.... I can see this lasting for a while because he's been desperate to feel needed and gain his self-confidence back.
Can you see why I'm really nervous that this could last for a while? They give each other what they've been lacking in their individual Ms.....
How do I compete with that? H won't let me *need* him anymore. I can't boost his self confidence by telling him 'how great he is' 'how good he looks'... but he gets that from her.
I'm still a mess over this sh!t. OW hasn't talked to me in 2 days- apparently her bishop at church told her to back away from me and H (but I found this out through H so she's *still* talking to him!) I haven't talked to her at all, and I haven't mentioned this sitch to H since Monday evening, when he said: "are we going to have to talk about this every time I see you?"... so I took the hint and have zipped my mouth (which I why you guys get all the stupid details and venting!) I've been able to go dim with H- and it doesn't feel good.
I want to be the 'bigger' person and show the confident, independent person that is opposite of her (the type of person that H always said he admired in me and why he fell in love with me)... but right now, I want to crawl under the covers and scream and cry for days!
I really hope that her insecurities become more prevalent to H (because he's not really experienced that side of her- and as a GF, she would be untrusting and jealous.) The other problem I have is that H never felt like *my* knight in shining armor- mostly my fault because I never let him help or 'save' me.... so he gets BIG ego boost from her through all her 'problems'.... I can see this lasting for a while because he's been desperate to feel needed and gain his self-confidence back.
---------
I'm betting thats gonna get oooooollldddd faaaasst when he is a kazillion miles away, in a hell-hole, pretty much helpless to assist.
In a way, it may even push him the exact opposite way as he will prob feel frustrated he can't help.
AND if it does go this way is most def in your favor since he will probably appreciate that you're a woman who is strong, capable, and knows how to stand on her own two feet.
And I wonder if going dim is going to feel better as you go along? For me, I've been NC since Sunday (ya ya I know... three WHOLE days!! lol) and I feel FANTASTIC! I felt like a walking piece of poo on the weekend when I told him I missed him. I hope it does get easier for you Pur!!
Dear Purgatory,
You said:
it makes me sick to think of all the deep feelings I shared with her.
And that is my biggest problem with dealing with OW and H. She has told my husband things I told her, greatly blown up I'm sure. She got inside my head and for awhile had me thinking I was the rotten one. My suspicions about my H acting different she tried to tell me it was because out oldest son and his family had moved out.
I tried to forgive her and my H. The first time he said we would work it out. But that 'we can just be friends' stuff is crap once they have entered A.
I hope you just keep being strong and doing the best you can.
I have added you to my prayers.
Aloha,
Wendy
OMG!! What do I do?!?!?
I just caught H in a lie!! He's never lied to me before!!!
He said he was taking the kids to the gym with him...when I called about something house related- I heard kids in the background (which I assumed were mine) but then it went silent as he was talking to me. I made a comment how the gym was really quiet- and he said "yeah." We got off the phone... then I drove by the gym (I know bad on my part) and his truck wasn't there!!
He's at OW house and the kids were mine and hers in the background!!! He probably walked out of the room so I wouldn't hear them.
I want to call him out on it and make him admit that he lied, ( I realize this isn't that big of a lie- BUT there's a lot behind this particular issue). Because it involves my kids, am I allowed to??
I know that the WAS has a tendency to lie- but I never thought mine would fall victim to this because he' always making a huge fuss about lies (especially little ones)
Please tell me what to do before pick up the phone and b!tch him out! Help!
You know what not to do.
How about this scenario-you call and b!tch him out and in his mind he's thinking "I knew she wouldn't change. We're separated and she's still trying to control me! I'm better off without that drama"
Be the new, calm and in control Purg-you can do this. And you really don't know where he was. Yes, maybe he lied but remember your last conversation with him about dip-op?
((()))
Just don't do anything right now. He will use it against you. Stay cool.
Let's think about this... But don't do anything until we have a plan.
You know what not to do.
How about this scenario-you call and b!tch him out and in his mind he's thinking "I knew she wouldn't change. We're separated and she's still trying to control me! I'm better off without that drama"
Be the new, calm and in control Purg-you can do this. And you really don't know where he was. Yes, maybe he lied but remember your last conversation with him about dip-op?
((()))
he knows he has limited time with her before he deploys and he MAY want to know her better before he ditches the mother of his kids--who CANNOT rant at him now...
But you can say, "hey I drove by her house and saw the car. You don't have to lie to me h, that just adds insult to injury. You're better than this,"
and leave it at that.Anything else that comes up--IF he asks for an answer you say you need to reflect and process before answering
These are two huge 180s....and THIS is when it matters!
Stay strong!
Thanks so much ladies!!!!
I knew in m head that it was best to keep quiet, but I need some affirmations..... I don't like questioning myself, but since I know I'm functioning from an emotional place, I can't really trust my choices. I'm glad I have 'sane' minds to help me see the light!
25- I would love to say this to him, but she lives 20 minutes away do he would know I went out of my way to catch him.
Maybe it's better just to let him feel guilty for knowing that he lied and that I believed him? He's always been a BIG believer in telling the truth (to friends, family, strangers) so this is not like him at all!! We used to have a joke that if he ever cheayed on me, he would probably call me in the middle of ot because of the guilt!
Do WAS ever feel guilty??
For now, I'm GAL tonight be going to a new church with a friend (whose only been a 'bus stop' mom friend till now). Then I might go to a movie... I like trying to stay out as late as possible on his nights, so he wonders what I'm doing
Ugg! So sorry. Being lied to is just plain awful.
I am worried even if you confronted him even gently, he would come out fighting in response.
Sometimes don't you wish you were none the wiser to lies?
So sorry and have fun at Church and your movie
Just had a lightbulb moment! H is probably choosing to lie to avoid a blow up, since that's how I usually would react... and since he made the comment 2 days ago: "are we going to talk about this every time Im around?"....
I think that by not saying anything- might give him the impression that I *won't* over react anymore....although, he probably thinks he's smart enough to hide it and that I would never find out.
But how can I *prove* this to him if he never presents me with the opportunity to do so- ad chooses to just keep lying to avoid confrontation??
he provided you with the opportunity to "confront" without losing it, by lying.
You can say, "you're right I do TEND to know when you are lying, so I drove by POS's (okay say her name or just say "her")
house and your car was there...Please don't lie to me again, b/c it adds insult to injury and you're better than this, and I deserve better."
THIS IS THE 180 Proof and it's the only reason I support saying anything--to show him that. OTherwise I'm all about just being the better woman/choice.
Don't assume he feels guilt at this point and don't confuse his concern with getting caught (kids blabbing) with guilt either. Remember in HIS mind he is still the primary long suffering victim...
But once you say this--leave the room and
THEN Go out as you planned
and if he asks YOU questions
You COULD say "I don't want to lie so how about I not answer? But I won't be out all night."
or just be vague
Does he expect your kids to lie to you as well?
Wasn't it you Purg w/ the 24 hour rule? Or perhaps it was Perseverance?? Anyhow, no matter what you do, sit on it for at least a day so you have a clearer head in how you want to handle things.
I am in the camp of not saying anything. But, what about if you are hanging out w/ the kids or having dinner all together and ask the kids how the gym was in front of him? "uh what gym mom?" I know this is being slightly manipulative but it should get the cat out of the bag if that is something you truly feel you need.
Say: It was *me* with the 24 hours rule.... I'm really forcing myself to sleep on it.
bklyn- I'm not he's thought that far in advance, which will work to my advantage
When they were leaving, S6 was complaining that he didn't want to go to the gym... so it wouldn't be unusual for to ask: "So, did you have fun at the gym even though you didn't want to go?" I'm not sure if I can coordinate this while H is in the house, but I'm gonna try
***Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle OW (I made a long post about her earlier today, but it got overlooked by 'his lie' post.) I want to know how I can aim his eyes back at me, even with all the flattery he gets from her- and obviously feels the need to lie about being around her for some reason (guilt? shame? avoid conflict?)
Tonight:
I went to a great church with a new 'friend' (she's a mom that I've talked to every morning at the bus stop and we've gotten closer.) It was uplifting! Guess what the sermon was on: identity and responsibility crisis in Marriage!! Can we say that I *meant* to go tonight?! I saw a lot of the wrongs I did in the sermon, and I saw the wrongs he's doing now. It was a good lesson that I needed to hear..... Now what to do with it? Not sure. I got put on a list for a woman's group- something I NEVER would have done before. But, I need to get some new faces in my life and this seemed like a good place to start.
Purg, Please get your mind focused back on you. If you make the OW a big deal, she will become more of a big deal. You can do this.
Also, think twice about involving your son in this. What if S says they didn't go to the gym, and H reacts and then S feels like he's done something wrong....
I agree with Labug. Either say nothing or say it in private. Keep the kids out of it OR ask them in private and later on mention it to h (I assume you don't want him to know you snooped?) But Asking the kids does not guarantee truth-
Keep in mind that some WASs DO tell their kids not to mention OPs "b/c it'll just upset mommy and you don't want her to be sad, do you?"
Yes I have seen that. And at the time they do it, the WAS convinces himself he's protecting the LBSer...
The point of ALL this is that you want to show him you CAN be trusted with truth b/c you won't go batchit on him, AND that you are capable of change. So do this
OR
show change another way (but I'd expect more of the lying,) sorry.
Finally, forget out ow...
You cannot attract his attention to you, by criticizing her. That gets the focus on HER again...
your plan is to show that marriage to you can be better and different.
Reveal that through your behavior.
***Does anyone have any ideas on how to handle OW (I made a long post about her earlier today, but it got overlooked by 'his lie' post.) I want to know how I can aim his eyes back at me, even with all the flattery he gets from her- and obviously feels the need to lie about being around her for some reason (guilt? shame? avoid conflict?)
I don't have an fabulous ideas for you but to sort of echo what others have said, its probably best 'not handled' by you at all.
I have a funny feeling that this woman's flattery will soon prove suffocating when your H is overwhelmed by her neediness and his impending deployment.
I know you've been through deployments before, (and this one I'm going through is only my first and I failed miserably so what the h3ll do I know! lol) but from what I hear from my ex, as well as my friend's H who have gone, as well as my co-workers, they don't *want* to have to focus on others needs as much as they are preparing mentally to go over there. And I would think the last thing they want is to have someone who they are constantly worried about back home.
I could be totally off base but if this woman has never truly been on her own before, she will become too much for him pretty quickly (given your special circumstances).
And one of the things I have been taught in T when dealing with a lying SO is to ask yourself, in the grand scheme of things, putting aside [for a moment] the sting of being lied to, does the actual lie really and truly change anything? I don't mean for one second that lying is OKAY in any manner, but right now, with what your trying to accomplish, I think it would be easier on YOU if you could take this little nugget of info and fold the piece of paper and put it in a box in your underwear drawer. Don't forget it, just keep it locked away. Let it be a tool that you use to keep yourself eyes-open and sharp but I don't think it's really a massive deal.
I hope I make sense there, it's early here for me! lol
Have an awesome day!
I am sad.
I didn't even have to ask S6 about last night- he opened up and was excited about not going to the gym... he told me the whole story at breakfast. (got that sickening feeling in my stomach again)
I called H, he had just gotten to the office. I said what 25 suggested: "S6 was excited to tell me about last night, you didn't need to lie to me, it just adds insult to injury."
H: "I didn't lie. I never specifically told you that I was going to the gym with the kids. You know that my plans have always been to drop them off with (her) on wednesdays and thursdays while I'm at the gym."
M: "You're right. You never directly said 'I'm taking the kids to the gym with me', but you implied it and even continued the story when we were on the phone briefly last night."
H: "Ok, I'll give you that. I didn't lie, but I definitely avoided the subject. I don't like that I feel pressured to tell you what I'm doing, and if I had told you my plans- you would have lost it on me (like you're doing now) and harassed me all night with calls/texts because that's what you always do. You even reacted like that this weekend."
M: "This weekend was a shock to my system. And yes, I used to always act like that. Do you really feel attacked right now?"
H: "I guess not, but I don't know how you're going to react anymore. You're really upset about this whole situation, and I care about you so I didn't want to add to it."
M: "I can't predict what you're going to do anymore either- your words and actions lately are things I never thought possible from you. Did you think you were protecting me in some way?!"
H: "I guess. I could have handled the sitch better, sorry. I will not try to imply or hide things from you if you can tell me that you won't go off on me."
M: "All I can tell you is that I will do my best not to."
==============
(stupid me took over) I asked why was she ignoring me, but not him? He said that I made it very clear that if she continued a friendship with him, that I wouldn't be her friend. (I really wanted to clarify this statement- because THAT IS NOT WAHT I SAID.... but I kept quiet.) He asked why I hadn't reached out to her in some way- REALLY?!?!? Are they both stupid?!
I simply said: "I have been punched in the gut. Why would I reach out to the one who did it, looking for some kind of apology. She is the one who has made it very clear that your friendship is more valuable to her- because she has chosen not to cut off communication with you- but she has done so with me. She is telling me that the friendship she and I had is not worth fighting for. I told her what my reaction would be if this happened, and instead of making a choice that would protect our friendship, she chose to roll over and do nothing."
He said: "I can't disagree with you there."
I know that I shouldn't have told him any of that. I know that I was opening myself up too much, couldn't help it. I never yelled, or even raised my voice... in fact I was mostly on the verge of tears (but I think I hid that from him)
Not only have I lost my H, and I have to accept that he's wanting to date my friend.... I had to loose my friend through all of this. I'm mad that she's the other woman. I am also incredibly hurt that I wasn't important enough to her. If the OW was a stranger, I could deal with just being the 'bigger/better' person a lot easier (I think.) It would still hurt, but only from him.
I'm reeling from hurt from both of them, and she doesn't even have the guts to try and reach out to me to apologize or try to rectify this in some way (not that I would change my mind) but at least I would know that I was worth the fight.
I feel really unimportant right now.
(((Purg))) Sorry you are feeling so down. I think you can take some positives from that initial discussion that you quoted above. You guys communicated well and their are some things in there that your H voiced for you to really take to heart and work on.
A lot of us on here don't have much communication with our WAW and don't know what they are thinking and what annoys them or triggers them so I would write down his complaints/concerns and try to work on those issues as best as you can.
You realize that you should of cut it off after you said you will do your best which is a great sign. Don't beat yourself up over it. This obviously is extremely difficult but keep moving forward in trying to be the best person you can be. It will get better with time and it will begin to snowball if you can start to focus less on OW and more on you.
Wishing you the Best!!!
First of all your H and this OW are jerks!! They are pathetic. I am going to call your H John Edwards from now on.
Anyway, they are going to do anything to justify there position. ANything you say will be used as proof that you are crazy and hard to deal with.
Sounds like you backslide only slightly. You should be very proud of yourself. Keeping your cool under these circumstances is nearly impossible.
I do not think you should call or text the OW. Maybe start a letter to her and at some point in the future you could send. But I think however you do end up communicating with OW, you should not open up to her in an honest way. You should kill her with kindness.
You have an opportunity now that its out in the open to continue to act chill.
I know I have asked you before but a family member cant come stay with you for a few days or you and kids go visit someone?? I feel like you are putting too much pressure on yourself to be there for your kids, this is a traumatic event and you need someone to help take care of you.
Purg
first let me just say...O U C H!! AND--- WTF??
okay that's out..now, to talk more constructively!!
I don't think the talks went badly.
You got him to revise two things off the bat when he said
" I can't disagree with that" AND apologizing for hiding stuff & promising to change IF you stay calm. I loved your question "Do you feel attacked now?"
that was a perfect way of defending yourself WITHOUT escalating...and if he'd said yes, you could ask him how he would like you to express things...what tone helps HIM to take in the content of what you say...not sarcastically but with sincere curiousity b/c I think he's still holding the past over your head
so
given the givens, realistically the call went as well as it could have. Do you see that?
Your h doesn't know the awakenings you have had yet, though he senses them and they confuse him, b/c he THOUGHT he had this figured out.
The goal of the lbser at the start, is to undermine their predictions about how badly you'll react and
to counter their negatives with positives...
So Now, keep up the new way of handling things.
As for the POS OW??
Nothing you say will make a difference in your favor.
Silence is doing a good job making the point without making you lose it in front of her.
I can't imagine that you are ready, YET, to face her and NOT get emotional. So I think a one on one would set you back, ---at this time---that could change
but for now, silence is your ally.I believe talking with her and not being perfectly saintly (saintliness takes time. Just Ask us Catholics why Mother Teresa is still just a "great gal" and not a saint...yet)
and I can assume it would somehow be used either against you or to help her feel like a victim -- as she faces loss, she's not brave enough to own it. She'll tell herself & maybe her d-
w/ "I didn't DO anything wrong...Purg is just an angry woman....see???"
that does not help your case. The cost of losing your friendship is only starting to seep into her....let it...
You are not the only one facing a loss.
Not to twist the knife but your h was a victim too--but unfortunately you didn't get the wake up call you needed, til now--and
what's done is done.
Now he inflicts pain on you and indirectly they have caused pain in each other. Neither of them can feel great about how they met no matter what fantasy they might want to live in. And the kids know far more than either your h or POS OW realize...
the natural consequence of their r has not been felt yet. (YOU can't inflict it or that backfires--just to remind you)
Believe me, the kids will tarnish any fantasy they have IF and when the time comes...and do her kids hate their bio dad? If not, that also helps your sitch.
But let's not borrow trouble from tomorrow.
Stay in the present. Be here now. Show up for your kids (the better mother he sees in you, the more that helps you, NOT to mention it's nice for the kids)
and silence re: her, in the face of betrayal like this, is about as dignified as you can get under the circumstances.
If he tells her what you said, which I'm not positive he'll do, great.
If not, so?
What is there to say? Why would YOU need to reach out to her?
SHE can contact you if she's so torn up...
your job is changing how you react to things and showing that change.
Don't make it harder on yourself than it already is, by thinking you can change her mind with words.
IF she misses you that much, and she will at some point,
she knows what to do to regain your friendship (I mean, let HER wonder if it's possible to regain it)
...we both know you'll never feel the same about her...and that's something to mourn too.
but not in front of him...not til he's gone...
Shelve her & that pain for now...she's not worth the time and energy you need for keeping it together and facing your h for the next few months with your Mother Teresa behaviors.That stuff takes energy-trust me, If I'd had an OW POS in my face near me or who was my "friend"...not sure how long I'd have lasted...then again I had 2 years--just shows how slow a learner I am
what some people don't know in my sitch is that I had a d in high school and keeping things stable for her for 2 years, was my goal. NOT moving or selling the house, etc. So I didn't have to "decide" anything til then as I knew h either did not want a divorce b/c he never filed OR he wanted to wait for her to graduate as well. I think it also helped him around his heroes up on the tundra to act as if the reason I and the kids were down here was b/c of her high school situation...whatever. ----I had some time.
I figured if h and I were not back together OR some great OM had not swept me off my feet before, then after her graduation, then I'd be done.
A few months before she finished, he began verbalizing things I needed to hear and showing me some changes. And the rest is history, yada yada
So I had a goal in mind for how long I could last AND in a way you do too.
Once your h is deployed-in some ways this will get easier.
So for now, focus on the few months you have left before he goes, and make it count.
Insert as many images of the new calm serene but Fun-YOU, as possible.
Replace the negatives he's using to justify his choices...w/positive memories he'll carry w/him.
AND PLEASE...
shelve the anger and pain, and turn it over to God.
Become the best woman you know how--
(and you know the real you-the woman he fell in love with, is in there)
and then leave the results up to God...
(((( ))))
I am brought to tears by the support I receive on this board. I'm at my lowest point since the original bomb was dropped, and knowing that there are 'strangers' who care enough to take time out for me- is overwhelming. Thank you all so much.
I think God is trying to reach me... examples:
* out of the blue, by neighbor invited me to her church last night, I went. The sermon was on 'identity and responsibility crisis' in marriage (odd topic since the majority of the members at the late service are high school and college students.) I got the distinct feeling that I was *supposed* to be there on that night.
* After I became aware of the lie last night, and all the revival of feelings for H and OW- I already had an appointment with my L. My L said that I was free to take some time away, if I needed it. She suggested that I get an agreement notarized between me and H, just so he can't use it against me somewhere down the line.
* I also had an appointment with my IC (scheduled last week) and boy did I need it!! I vented/released for my whole hour, and my IC listened and interjected very little. The few pieces of advice she did give me- were things I've already found on this site: focus on me, not on her; don't dwell on the negatives, be the bigger person by keeping my mouth shut. I wasn't mad that she was telling me things I already knew- just reassured. She's only about 5 years older than me, so it's easy to open up and say exactly what I want to say (curse words and all!)
--------------------------
bklyn- 'john edwards' made me laugh! I think it's appropriate
25- I've been allowing myself to 'feel' only in the shower (a safe place) and really focusing on 'shelving the OW'.
I would like to say that I've been renewed today, finding my footsteps again... but I'm still at a loss of what do do with myself and where to go. I really want to get back to the place of peace and calmness that I was finding around the holidays.
I feel the need to take care of myself, and yet my responsibilities/expectations of daily life are making me feel guilty for wanting to do that. I thought I would relax and catch up on my DVR shows- I decided to watch GLEE because it's normally good for a smile or a laugh (laugh all you want, I was a theater nerd in HS and I really like the show.)spoiler alert: It started out great with a GREASE song (for those of you who read around xmas time, I LOVE musicals and GREASE is my all time fav!) but then it was sprinkled with love songs and ended with a big proposal.... guess what I did? Cried my eyes out thinking about my proposal and wedding. Right around that time, S6 asked me to play a video game with him- I gladly took the offer of a distraction, and had some great 1:1 time with him.
I planned on going to a movie tonight. Out of the blue, I get a text from a friend I haven't talked to in a while. She knows a little about my sitch, and was 'just checking on me'. I invited her to come with me, and she did. We ended up hanging out in her car (cause it was 38 degrees outside) after the movie and I got her 'caught up' on everything. She knows OW and my H through our gym. She said that everyone around the gym was shocked when H left me, and if/when they find out about OW, they will probably flip out- and even turn against him.
[The gym we belong to is small and the members are all like a family- everyone knows everyone's business. My H is in charge of new clients, so all the members have worked with him at some point and know him very well. I worked out briefly and got OW to come with me, then found out I was pregnant with second son, but I would hang out there and support the members and OW continued to work out- so everyone knows me and her as well. After the baby, I did a few months- but then had so many problems with endurance, which led to discovering my heart/lung issues... so I don't even go there anymore.]I want to say that I don't care what he's doing every night; that I don't wonder if that was a lie he just told me; that I don't think about OW and him possibly together (he's still claiming that nothing has changed between them); that I've accepted that my M is over- I know it in my head, but not in my heart; and that I can visualize a life without H.... not been able to conquer any of those.
I wish I was more positive on here tonight. I don't like being 'debbie downer' (my name is NOT debbie btw.) I do appreciate that this board is a safe place to say all the things that I wish I could say to H and OW, without the fear of rejection or judgement.
This site is my lifesaver right now- please don't let go of the rope.
we're here and sending you support and prayers all the way to you in Virginia, (my home state...)
((( )))
I want to say that I don't care what he's doing every night; that I don't wonder if that was a lie he just told me; that I don't think about OW and him possibly together (he's still claiming that nothing has changed between them); that I've accepted that my M is over- I know it in my head, but not in my heart; and that I can visualize a life without H.... not been able to conquer any of those.
I wish I was more positive on here tonight. I don't like being 'debbie downer' (my name is NOT debbie btw.) I do appreciate that this board is a safe place to say all the things that I wish I could say to H and OW, without the fear of rejection or judgement.
This site is my lifesaver right now- please don't let go of the rope.
where the head goes, the heart will follow...if we let it.
Keep your head on straight Purg, and you WILL get to the other side of this.
(((( ))))
purg - wouldn't it be nice if we could GAL together? we could have sleepovers for the kids.. go wall climbing.. have coffee.. get makeovers..
i'm hanging on to the rope!!!
I feel like a zombie today. I'm just going through the motions, but I'm not really *here*. It's 1:30 in the afternoon and the only things I've accomplished are:
* a shower
* breakfast and lunch for the boys
that's it.
I've been wandering around the house and picking up a little clutter here and there, then I find myself sitting on the couch clicking through the internet- and I always end up here.
I've been having panic attacks sitting still- that's a first for me. My heartbeat has spiked a few times. It's scary to think that if something really scary happened, I don't have someone to call. I used to call OW first and she would call H to meet me at the hospital, while she would drive me.... can't do either of those anymore. Part of me doesn't even want to call H to let him know.
Anyone have suggestions on what to do with family photos on the walls? We have a TON and most are various combinations of all of us. It's really painful to look at the ones of all 4 of us. My thinking has been to keep them all up for the sake of the boys- but at the same time, H has said that 'he's moving out' (not really because all of his cr@p will continue to be here and he will be here 2x per week) so technically this is *my* house... shouldn't I get to choose what pictures I have to look at? On the other hand, I don't want H to feel completely alienated here as if he never existed (keep the road home paved smooth?)
I'm all over the place today. Anger, sad, lonely. I've come to recognize how isolated I had made myself with H and OW being my only friends.... No one calls me anymore. My thoughts keep going to him and her and how they probably are talking all the time, and how he wants to be over there and not here.... I am getting better about shelving them quickly, but they still pop up.
I'm really considering a 2-3 week get away. I would love to visit all of my family, but I'm really drawn to visiting my MIL (she has been a BIG comfort to me, even though it's *her* son that causing this. She is appalled at his confession about OW.) She is a park ranger and lives in a state park- I could spend my days wandering through trails and forests or even volunteer with her in the park. I'm not sure what my plans will be, but that's just one thing floating around in my head.
you and i are on the same timeline.
i was thinking the same thing on my drive back from dropping off S at school. i feel like an empty shell of my former self. i was trying to figure out how i fill up that shell again?
i understand the panic attacks. i have them too. my antidepressants have not yet kicked in. i'm trying to keep myself busy but it's not easy. hang in there.
as for the family photos.. you don't have to deal with them right away. unless you feel ready to do so. in the next few weeks, i'm going to try and make small changes around the home to make me feel more comfortable. just enough to make me know that life goes on. putting up pictures i've been meaning to.. maybe painting a few rooms.. we'll see.
if you can get away.. go see your family. i know you said you feel drawn towards your MIL but i suspect it's because you want to feel a connection to H. sometimes i feel the same. as though i want to contact them because then i would still be the DIL and maybe they will talk some sense into H etc. but, i am leaving it as is. don't want H to be able to use it against me that i am forcing myself into his life through his family. go be with the people you know will love and support you.
keep posting!
BF- Thanks for the company on this shaky bridge trying to get to the other side
Thanks for helping me keep my thoughts in check and stay focused on what I really need to do right now. I'm not ready to take the photos down- I just felt like I *should* to make a statement to H. I really don't want him to take everything out of the house- at least he has a reason to still come over and gives me a chance to show off my DB skills- pathetic attempts, huh?
I never thought about want wanting to visit MIL because of a connection to H- maybe that's a sub conscience thought...but thanks for making me thing about it.
In reference to your earlier post- YES! I would LOVE to GAL with you and the kids
If you want to show off your DB skills -take the pictures down. It took me a while but eventually I did as well.
I believe one day I will put them back up!!
I hated looking at pictures of my H smiling next to me. Also I think it would help your sitch and H would feel like you are moving on.
Every time your H sees the pictures he will feel pressure. We need to take the pressure off.
Just think of it as temporary redecorating.
Go to an ALanon Meeting! It doesnt matter that alcohol is not the issue here. You will meet so many wonderful woman and it will be easier to share with them because they are not acting like their lives are perfect (Like our neighbors)
I have really distanced myself from causal neighbors who I am not sharing with and have found a whole group of wonderful supportive woman who I can have play dates with.
bklyn- thanks so much for the photos support! I took down 1 or 2 a few days ago- I didn't think H would notice.... but he did. He saw them laying on the hall table, and gave me a sad look as he picked them up. I simply said: "they hurt too much." (probably not my best DB answer, but I was compelled to be honest in that moment)
I'm working up my nerve to re-do my whole display in the living room (about 26 frames.) I'd like to do it quickly, without leaving the wall blank for a while- so S6 doesn't notice.
=============
I want to crawl out of my skin!! I can't get my heart to stop racing (I took of my monitor because it wouldn't shut up!)
I had to meet H at the AT&T store to fix something on our account. He came right from work- in his uniform (I've always been a sucker for him in uniform- it was cruel!) At the store for only about 15 minutes- he never stopped texting and barely said 2 words to me. He walked the kids out to my car. [today is the first day of our new custody arrangement- it's his weekend off from the kids, and as scheduled- he won't see them until Wednesday night. We have been trying to figure out our 'family' event for the weekend because he said he didn't want to go 5 days without seeing them.] I asked if he had confirmed his plans for the weekend (he had mentioned that he wanted to take the boys to a new friend's house)- he said not yet.
(this is tedious, but important)
We agreed to do a family breakfast on Sat. He suggested he comes over at 9, I pointed out that the boys wake up at 6 and it would be hard not to feed them for 3 hours. I suggested 8. (here's where it got strange)...
H said: "Fine. Why don't you just make the plan and tell me what it is because I suggested a time and you have to go off and point out all thats wrong with it. It's really frustrating!" (his voice was raised and he had anger in his eyes.)
I said: "Is there something else bothering you? That seemed like an extreme response for this conversation. I didn't mean to upset you, I was trying to point out that an earlier time would be better for the boys."
H said: "Fine. Whatever. I'll be there at 8." and walked to his truck and left.
Does this seem extreme?? I probably shouldn't have made my comment about his reaction.... but I was really surprised. Nothing happened at work today that would have put him in a bad mood- so this reaction was all about what I said.
He got off work early today- that's why we were able to meet at the store. I know that he doesn't go to the gym until 6 (3 hours from now), so maybe he was irritated because I was keeping him from *her* (which makes me want to throw up! Instead of choosing to spend some time with his boys, he's running over to her house to hang with her kids and her! (I could be projecting, but it seems like a likely action)
I'm so pissed I could spit nails!!! He has taken my boys to her house the last 2 nights, while he went to the gym- what kind of "in charge for the night' is that?!?!? And now that he had a chance to be with them 1:1, he runs away!
He said one time, that he doesn't want to be in *this* house with the boys. He would rather take them over to hers so they can have friends to play with AND because he would rather be over *there*.
Is this typical WAS actions?? This is new for my H. It seems as though he's pulling away more now that he's confessed his feelings for OW.
I don't like feeling so out of control with my emotions!! I really feel that I need to get away so I can collect myself back to a place where I can *enjoy* my daily life again. I want to laugh and smile again. I've been very impatient and short tempered with the kids- and that's not fair to them at all.
"Dear Purgatory...
This is the Universe saying "You need to GAL more, so you don't pay attention to songs that are NOT connected, lyrically or situationally, to you, Nor are they aimed at you. Go be happy."
Love, the Universe
This was for me too! Purg, just joined the DB site and I am reading your story. You guys (25 - you are HILARIOUS) are keeping me from being on the edge of the ledge!
It should make you feel better that he is acting so odd. It shows you that he is sick right now. This is his disease.
My H did similar things. Said how much he wanted to see the kids but then choose guy things instead. This is some form of a mid life crisis, and they want to be juvenile kids.
You can not point out to them that they are acting childish you need to support them. I know it crazy!! But OW is telling him how great he is. She is telling him is super to go to the gym vs. spend time one on one with his kids. You just need to fake that its a good idea.
My H went to Florida for the 3rd time in 6 months this weekend to paddle board. Meanwhile we are now paying two rents. It is insane. But I told him that he it was so cool that he knew how to paddle board.
Regarding his reaction to breakfast - he is looking for ways to say that you are controlling. Yes he was over reacting but you need to try your best to get him not to over react. He needs to justify his behavior and is grabbing at straws. dont give him any.
My H wanted to take us for breakfast one morning at 10A. I hesitated for a second but then I said "sounds great". I feed the kids a good breakfast at 6:30 and then they ate crap with H at 10a.
You need to tell H everything he does is great because OW is telling him that.
I know it makes no sense.
Hang in there. Kill 'em with kindness, for your boys
purg
Please re-read that post I wrote to you a few days ago--the one with the DB coach's advice about "Applauding loudly for th 1% positives" they do
and losing the anger.
As you can see already, your anger is hurting YOU AND YOUR kids...NOT him or OW...
the angrier you are - the more validated they are. So work on that my friend...
Get those reassuring calming mantras down pat and SAY them...til you believe them. Then let that inner belief radiate from you. It's healthy, and attractive.
I'd see your own family for a trip home and maybe some old high school peeps. It does wonders to see friends who have known you since you were 5 and still like you and automatically support YOU...very warm and fuzzy.
If you want to keep in touch with his mom-hey she is the kids' grandma...but don't become her bff at this point in time. Looks way too much like manipulation and goes against a lot of the "rules"...
you need to GAL so you don't obsess. Get anti-anxiety meds if you need them---do not call your h for your panic attacks. No way...
What can you JOIN or ATTEND this weekend that is for you?
Also do NOT make the mistake of assuming all of your h's interactions with OW are positive and lovely. I doubt her kids think this is all groovy. Her 16 y/o must be reeling...where's HER dad? They are only now entering the reality phase and with that, comes some ugly stuff...give it time.
okay back to YOU...so, how are you going to be busy this weekend or take care of you?
And as for the control issues and your h's anger, I think your tone has to be almost SEDATE when talking to him, b/c they hear yelling when we merely change our intonation...they don't even hear the content.
Get back on the Mother Teresa Uber Calm Zen Purgatory...and
think about changing that screen name of yours to something a tad more uplifting than eternity in limbo...and go to EE in Philadelphia, and get healthy and...
okay...that's enough for now
(((( ))))
Purg,
Just wanted to let you know that your H is saying almost the exact same things as mine.
E.g.:
H said: "Fine. Why don't you just make the plan and tell me what it is because I suggested a time and you have to go off and point out all thats wrong with it. It's really frustrating!" (his voice was raised and he had anger in his eyes.)
I get this if I mention ANYTHING, at all, that does not involve absolute agreement with what he says. He is primed to be furious.
Sometimes he even reacts this way to general chitchat from me.
E.g., once, while out driving, I said "Gee look at that!", referring to the car in front of us that had a huge canoe perched precariously on its roof.
H responded with "Don't worry, I'm not going to hit it. I wish you would stop criticising my driving; it really pisses me off".
Also, my H has gone through phases where he says that he doesn't want to be in *this* house.
At one point a few weeks ago, he took to sitting out on the front wall of the porch rather than coming inside when he came to see the kids. It's as if he can't cross the threshold without some strange effect taking hold of him. He has said that the house is not his (I owned it before we met) and he doesn't want to be in it.
Anyway, please know that your H's behaviours are running to script in these regards.
My new mantra for dealing with this is LAV: Listen, Accept, Validate (suggested by BM) and I keep reminding myself NOT TO ENGAGE IN DISCUSSION when I think things need to be disputed or thrashed out.
I'm with BM on this - kill 'em with kindness, because they're angry and they've checked out, and nothing in the way of resistance will do any good at all.
NLW I can't cut and paste cause I am on my phone but the canoe story made me laugh out loud while W just looked at me thanks
Ok- I got the hints
My H wanted to take us for breakfast one morning at 10A. I hesitated for a second but then I said "sounds great". I feed the kids a good breakfast at 6:30 and then they ate crap with H at 10a.
You need to tell H everything he does is great because OW is telling him that.
I know it makes no sense.
Hang in there. Kill 'em with kindness, for your boys
This made me laugh! It's crazy how they forget that the kids wake up at the crack of dawn- and usually want food dumped in their mouths right away! I REALLY DO need to remember to agree with things he suggests to prevent him from getting defensive and angry, thanks for the reminder.
okay back to YOU...so, how are you going to be busy this weekend or take care of you?
And as for the control issues and your h's anger, I think your tone has to be almost SEDATE when talking to him, b/c they hear yelling when we merely change our intonation...they don't even hear the content.
Get back on the Mother Teresa Uber Calm Zen Purgatory...and
think about changing that screen name of yours to something a tad more uplifting than eternity in limbo...and go to EE in Philadelphia, and get healthy and...
This is my weekend with the kids, so GAL is a little challenging. S6 is staying the night at a friend's house, so I just have the baby with me- I'm really enjoying having some 1:1 time with him (since S6 is usually fighting for my attention.) I made pigs in a blanket and we're sharing ice cream
I'm going to take them to the Y tomorrow, and swim with S6. It's a challenge to find activities that both boys can participate in, and it's 42 degrees outside- so the park is out of the question.
Yes. I do need to channel my best 'mother theresa' act. I know that my anger is always just under the surface- I hope to bury it deeper while on my 'vacation' so I can come back and "be a duck": let things just roll off my back.
Is it normal to be 'calm' in front of him, and then feel the adrenaline running through me as I drive away? I hope that once I am able to detach, the adrenaline won't be as bad.
Anyway, please know that your H's behaviours are running to script in these regards.
My new mantra for dealing with this is LAV: Listen, Accept, Validate (suggested by BM) and I keep reminding myself NOT TO ENGAGE IN DISCUSSION when I think things need to be disputed or thrashed out.
I'm with BM on this - kill 'em with kindness, because they're angry and they've checked out, and nothing in the way of resistance will do any good at all.
Your canoe story made me laugh! Its a perfect example of how they automatically assume we are criticizing instead of just making a comment. I'm glad mine is following the process- it's comforting (in a way) to know that I don't have a sitch that hasn't been experienced before- so I can get guidance from people that have been-there-done-that.
Question: after you kill them with kindness and , how do you process away the anger/hurt?
I know I keep coming back to the same topics, thanks for not calling me silly. I accept that I am functioning in my emotional brain still- so I really appreciate the advice to keep me focused and help me get back into my rational brain. I'll get there, eventually... I can't tell you how much it means to me for you guys to continue to show care and concern for me
Would this hurt my DB efforts?OW's B-day is next week. I had already gotten her a present before Xmas, and decided to hold onto it for her b-day. (Its a handmade piece of pottery that I made and had her girls help me paint. I really have no need for it in my house -and it's personalized with their names.) I want to give it to her- but just leave it on her porch. She would know that it's from me because it's signed on the bottom.
Should I give it to her? Why? Why Not?
Hey Purg, you're sounding better all the time.
how do you process away the anger/hurt?
I don't think you really can process it away, I think it's a function of time and action. Keeping your brain occupied with other things should help.
Keep it up!
Hey Purgatory!
I don't know what to tell you about the gift. My son, the potter, takes pots he thinks aren't perfect and throws them at a rock wall behind our house. I get really mad about that because my friends would love his "imperfect" pots! But when you said pottery, I could see an instance where the rock wall smashing might feel good.....
Okay, really, why not give it to her? Because you might come across as trying to manipulate? Because no matter what you do it will be wrong?
Will her girls remember that they painted it with you? Will they ask where it is? I have a rule about not letting little kids down. Any promise I make to a little kid I KEEP!
So I guess that is my 2 cents worth!
Aloha,
Wendy
maybe ask your goddaughter if she would like to give it to her mom seeing as they helped paint it? i don't know if there's a right or wrong answer. just whatever you're comfortable with. if you prefer to get rid of it.. no one can fault you.. if you decide to give it to her because of the girls.. it's not wrong either. hahaha.. can i be more vague??
OMG!! I screwed up!! Please Help!!!!
This morning was supposed to be our first 'family' breakfast time. H called early to tell me that he had to cancel because OW youngest was going to the doctor and at the same tim, D16 had an interview for a special art school..... He was canceling so he could take D16 to the interview. I offered for me to take her so he could still see the boys (and I ahven't seen D16 in over 3 weeks).... but I guess that offer was never expressed/ or denied by OW because she called another friend to take D16. [I KNEW that there were other options for her, but OW first and only options was to call H to solve the problem even though she knew that he alrteady had plans with his kids!]
I lost it. I didn't yell, but I said: "no way, no how. I won't let you put someone else's kids above yours"
It went downhill from there and he said he completly disagreed with me and he didn't understand why our breakfast couldn't just be moved to Sunday.
I have never experienced so much hurt/anger at one time!
H 'gave in' (his words) and came over, but he is miserable. He said I'm acting out of jealousy and I said: "no. I don't want you anymore. You are no the man I fell in love with 10 years ago, I don't know who you are. I don't want you so how can I be jealous?"
(def not my best moment. I totally let all DB knowledge out the window)
I came back later and said I handled the sitch wrong and I wish it hadn't come to this- because now everyone is miserable.
HOW DO I FIX THIS??!!!! I COMEPLETLY BLEW A CHANCE TO ACT CALM!!
It is okay. It is so okay. Its really hard what we are doing and to act calm when there is hurricane katrina at the door is so so hard. Your reaction was normal. Any mother/woman/wife would react as you did.
Now you just have to act calm. You have all day today, tomorrow, next week and the future to be calm and you can do it even through this hurricane.
Dont beat yourself up. Beating yourself up is the old way. You did it its over now move on and be chill. Be the new Purg and dont worry about it.
Even recognizing that you over reacted is a huge step in the right direction.
PS Why do you even want John Edwards?? What a jerk! Hang in there for your kids and for her kids, they all deserve better.
LOVE YOU!!
Shouldn't you be OKAY to express yourself (within reason) when your H is being a D-head? Which he is. I think you have every right.
The fact that he can't see that putting her kids over his own is wrong all by himself sickens me.
You shouldn't have even HAD to tell him that.
The point is... what would have been better, for you to pretend that it's okay?
He said the jealousy stuff to deflect the guilt off him and to put it on you. But he is acting like a child.
Purg it is ok. What u are going through is hard and painful stuff. So rinse lather and repeat. Learn from this and grow. We are pulling for you
You know, each time he does these 'alien' things, it makes it easier to detach.
Bklyn, I've been having the 'why do I want him' thoughts a lot. I can say that I don't want *this* man, but the man that I know he can be.... But who's to say that the one I know will ever come back?
I called D16 to wish her luck, and she cried saying how she missed me and loved me- that was really hard! I told her how much I wish I could be with her today (yet another heartbreak caused by H and OW!)
I need to have a civil R with him as we move on into coparenting for the next 18ish years, so it's important that we don't burn any bridges. I think the fact that this is all still so fresh for me, is why I still long for our M. Who knows when that will change.
Thank you all for coming to my rescue this morning! These are the times I really wish some of y'all were just a phone call away instead of waiting for online responses.... But I'll take it!!
We aren't supposed to see H until Wednesday, that's what I have to plan for... Even though he says he'll come by before then- we'll see
Pur, I wish I could add you on the Alt if you're on there.
Purg,
I agree, don't beat yourself up. It's so hard to watch H be a jerk and act selfish and childish. We get especially sensitive and protective when it comes to our kids. I'm glad you have a few days before you see H again. It gives you a chance to calm down and hopefully it gives your H a chance to realize that the way he acted was wrong (though don't count on it).
It must be so hard for OW's D16 to deal with this. Does she know what's going on? I can't even imagine how you must feel about your R with OW's kids. They are innocent, too, yet have to be victims of your H and OW's selfish choices.
Hang in there! (((purg)))
Don't project that you are destined to be co-parents forever. It took me so long not to project into the future. I told myself if I didn't project I wasn't excepting reality but there is an in between.
Just focus on each day or each hour or each second and enjoy all you are blessed with.
If you h and ow actually want to move forward together they are going to face huge hurdles including d16 & all the other kids. Don't let them unite against you.
Kill 'em with kindness.
yes. very hard not to project! deep breath. one day at a time.
purg - you are still human. i think i would have felt all those things as well. natural instinct to protect your own.
so now what? what choice do we have but to continue on and just do the best we can.
you and i need to take bklyn's advice about not projecting because the thought that kept running through my mind was that i had to create a happy life for kids and I w/out H. now i am focusing more on slowing things down and taking baby steps.
we're all here for you!!
I just thought about something....
Now that my BFF has made herself the OW, I look at her differently. The things that I might have once defended or excused in her because she was my friend and i loved her.... are now the things that I focus on about her. Her negative traits are magnified and I find myself criticizing her previous and present actions. I can't even get myself to hate her- as much as I would be justified in feeling that way! I am disgusted by her actions and have a new impression of her, but not hate.
Even today, her youngest is in the hospital with unexplained violent symptoms- it's my instinct to go be with her or at least to call and keep her calm... but I can't bring myself to give her the satisfaction. I AM concerned about D6- I've known her since birth! She was like the little girl I never had... I can't seem to separate the hurt/anger I feel for her form the care/concern I feel for D6.
Should I be the bigger person and reach out to her only out of concern for D6? (Maybe it will remind her of the great friend I *really* am and make her feel a little guilty about what she's doing, can't say that I wouldn't mind if that happened)
Isn't this what happens with our WAS? They start to *see* and become more focused on the bad things about us (things they would have normally just accepted and dealt with out of love)... but then they reach their breaking point and all of a sudden- we are viewed through a different lens (whatever the opposite of love is)- even though our actions might not have changed too much.
I think I have an understanding of what my H has been seeing/feeling with me. It also gives me a new understanding of why he can't show me care/concern when I'm at the hospital- he says it's so I don't get the wrong idea, but I think it's also to protect himself from 'loving' me again.
Hey Purg, you're sounding better all the time.
how do you process away the anger/hurt?
Keeping your brain occupied with other things should help.
Keep it up!
the anger and hurt DO fade and seem less and less relevant with time. Especially when the WAS makes changes, you begin to say "from this day forward" & letting go of the past...
and don't forget,
you are asking that of HIM too....but yes, in time...
maybe ask your goddaughter if she would like to give it to her mom seeing as they helped paint it? i don't know if there's a right or wrong answer. just whatever you're comfortable with. if you prefer to get rid of it.. no one can fault you.. if you decide to give it to her because of the girls.. it's not wrong either. hahaha.. can i be more vague??
what is your real goal in giving it to her? There are ONLY TWO ways SHE will take it, imho.
Either it's an olive branch from you (is it? Really?)
or
it's to guilt her w/feigned kindness....(kinda yes??)
I'd let her kids give it to her,
at most...not to sound punitive but your options are limited here. Things have changed since you made it, wouldn't you say?
you could ask h, via text, how her kid is doing. Or ask the Godchild.
As for what you told your h, it's not the content so much as the tone.
I think if you'd said' "wow that sure looks like you're putting her kids above yours" that MIGHT have worked---
except your kids were only having breakfast with him, and her kids had a higher need and one was sick. Where the heck is HER ex h??
(Do you still believe she was "abused"??)
So in a way, you may have looked unreasonable, Not him.
I'm NOT sure your answer about not wanting him now anyhow, was so bad.
In that moment, it's how you felt. Don't keep apologizing or at least not more than once...and remind him that this is all VERY NEW & RAW for you...
unlike him, you have not had weeks or months of pondering internally,
AND
you were under the mistaken belief she was YOUR bff
and HE was YOUR h...
so he's going to have to bare with you as you learn to create a new, happy and fulfilling life for yourself--which you WILL DO---and have begun--
and face a health challenge as well.
(I would NOT mention that health issue ever, unless you have a real need for help and ONLY he can be there for you.
Seriously, let him stew in the fact that as you face it, you ask nothing of him...
he's not a monster yet. He'll squirm...same goes for her if she has any decency left in her)...and if not, what's the point of sharing it with either of them?
Don't seek pity b/c it's very close to contempt. Many LBSers don't get that.
I feel for the Godchild, but if they vilify YOU, you will be blamed for the pain and "not accepting that the marriage was over and THEN they decided to date"
which is the story they'll put out there.
By being the calm uber zen Purg you are becoming, that will be harder to keep telling themselves...oh and don't forget, SHE HAS FLAWS and they'll start to show soon...is she a perfect mother? Thought not...
and as for your Mother Teresa progress, hey it's not linear growth.
we all take 2 steps forward, or 5, and then a few backwards...
but on the whole, there IS progress...and you're getting there.
Get yourself to that wacky workshop I told you about. I swear to God you will be levels higher in your happiness and contentment and your road to life, will be clearer to you.
Stay on your "Campaign message" and give yourself the pep talks we'd all need in your shoes. You would not believe the playlists I had on my Ipod...my "optimistic future w/new OM" playlist...which always made my workouts better
or my "optimistic w/H" workouts which got hard to do at times...but easy to run harder b/c I was mad...
the grief playlists if I wanted to wallow b/c I tended to tire myself of it and snap out of it faster IN TIME
or my "happy single mama", travelling around and living where SHE wants to live- for the first time in decades, (so long Army!!!)
(((( ))))
the anger and hurt DO fade and seem less and less relevant with time. Especially when the WAS makes changes, you begin to say "from this day forward" & letting go of the past...and don't forget,
you are asking that of HIM too....
but yes, in time...
Really, really important messages bolded above!
All who have been at this for a long time, those who have Xs or their current spouse becomes an X...
We have a choice... We can create and rationalize reasons why we are not meant to be with our spouse, how we aren't a match, how we don't like their behaviours... and few would challenge us on that... and while it can certainly be argued it's not... it actually is a form of denial, anger, and bitterness... and it keeps us stuck...
Whereas, we can be positive in the "from this day forward" (in the manner of keeping the road home paved and smooth)... engaging them when they ARE pleasant... and disengaging them when they are not...
Sandi2 posted recently in another thread if we would be "friendly" and do for our spouses as we would for our friends, if our friends were treating us poorly... and the answer should be a resounding "no"...
And I feel it's very important to treat everyone with respect and dignity
during the times they are positive...
It falls under that category of doing to others as we would have them to do... or said other ways... setting boundaries or leading by example...
Encourage the good behaviours "from this day forward" and discourage the bad behaviours "from this day forward"... be positive and friendly when you are with them and stay away from them when you are down or in a bad mood...
If we share bad with them, then they will feel it's OK or justified to share bad with us... in the same way that if they are mean to us, we might feel justified then, to be mean to them...
you could ask h, via text, how her kid is doing. Or ask the Godchild.
I asked H via text.... I got a response from her instead (from her phone). Not sure how that came about, but she said she appreciated me being concerned about D6.
As for what you told your h, it's not the content so much as the tone.
I think if you'd said' "wow that sure looks like you're putting her kids above yours" that MIGHT have worked---
I'm sure H would have turned it around on me somehow- he's always had a problem with me presenting a 'challenge' to any decision he makes, says it makes him feel like I have no faith in his abilities... esp towards the end- he always told me that I was just trying to start an argument.
except your kids were only having breakfast with him, and her kids had a higher need and one was sick. Where the heck is HER ex h??
Her soon-to-be-ex is deployed to Guam until June this year. (he's been gone since april '11) My H kept saying that he didn't understand why the breakfast couldn't just be move to sunday.... I don't really have a problem with this- but in that moment, I couldn't see past the fact that *her* kids were coming before *ours*.
(Do you still believe she was "abused"??)
Mental/sexual abuse-yes. When she started D proceedings, ex-h started the mental abuse on D16... I had a few choice words with him one night, and he now calls me: 'a retched excuse of a human.' Can we say he's a guy who doesn't like a woman to stand up to him?! He actually wanted to get an order in their papers that said I couldn't be around any of the kids, OW told him that he would have to explain the specifics of that to the judge- go ahead, air out your dirty laundry. He said he didn't want all that info to come out in public... a true coward.
I'm NOT sure your answer about not wanting him now anyhow, was so bad.
It made me almost throw up saying it to him. He looked me right in the eye, furrowed his eyebrows, didn't say a word and walked away. I'm not sure how it made him feel.
In that moment, it's how you felt. Don't keep apologizing or at least not more than once...and remind him that this is all VERY NEW & RAW for you...
unlike him, you have not had weeks or months of pondering internally,
AND
you were under the mistaken belief she was YOUR bff and HE was YOUR h...
so he's going to have to bare with you as you learn to create a new, happy and fulfilling life for yourself--which you WILL DO---and have begun--
Is there any way to get him to *see* this? Not make an excuse for my behavior, but how can I get him to give me a break? Or does this fall under the "I can't teach him what the consequences will be?"
and face a health challenge as well.
(I would NOT mention that health issue ever, unless you have a real need for help and ONLY he can be there for you. Seriously, let him stew in the fact that as you face it, you ask nothing of him... he's not a monster yet. He'll squirm... same goes for her if she has any decency left in her)...and if not, what's the point of sharing it with either of them?
Don't seek pity b/c it's very close to contempt. Many LBSers don't get that.
I can see where he may have viewed some of my health issues as trying to get pity, that wasn't my intention. I really wish I had someone to share this with me, so I could have a shoulder to cry on when needed. If I don't involve him, do I run the risk of pushing him too far away?
I feel for the Godchild, but if they vilify YOU, you will be blamed for the pain and "not accepting that the marriage was over and THEN they decided to date"
which is the story they'll put out there.
I'm really scared that this will be the story that gets shared with mutual friends. I think that D16 understood my feelings with H and our separation, so she won't buy it.
By being the calm uber zen Purg you are becoming, that will be harder to keep telling themselves...oh and don't forget, SHE HAS FLAWS and they'll start to show soon...is she a perfect mother? Thought not...
He knows of her flaws, but that doesn't seem to stop him. I really hope that her flaws as a 'GF' outweigh her flaws as a 'friend'... cause as a 'friend' she's not jealous, possessive, or needy.
and as for your Mother Teresa progress, hey it's not linear growth.
we all take 2 steps forward, or 5, and then a few backwards...
but on the whole, there IS progress...and you're getting there.
Thanks for the encouragement. I do tend to get hard on myself when I don't pick up a new skill right away (in all aspects of life)... but with emotions, there's not a standard to follow so it's more of a grey area.
Get yourself to that wacky workshop I told you about. I swear to God you will be levels higher in your happiness and contentment and your road to life, will be clearer to you.
I looked it up online- it looks really amazing! There's a workshop in April, I"m starting to save $$ for it now.
Stay on your "Campaign message" and give yourself the pep talks we'd all need in your shoes. You would not believe the playlists I had on my Ipod...my "optimistic future w/new OM" playlist...which always made my workouts better
or my "optimistic w/H" workouts which got hard to do at times...but easy to run harder b/c I was mad...
the grief playlists if I wanted to wallow b/c I tended to tire myself of it and snap out of it faster IN TIME
or my "happy single mama", travelling around and living where SHE wants to live- for the first time in decades, (so long Army!!!)
Right now, I have a 'happy', 'cry', 'angry', 'motivated' playlists. Some songs are in multiple lists, but they help to get me in the right mood.... Esp when I have 15 minutes in the shower and I need to get all my tears out- the 'sad' playlist is perfect to get it over with quickly!
(((( ))))
Let me know what you think.....
[Many people on here have said to look for the positives, and applaud the 1% they do.]
The baby is sick today. I text H after he left this morning to let him know about his fever. We both became concerned that he might be getting sick from whatever D6 has a the hospital today (since they've spent the last few days together.) H kept texting/asking how our baby was doing, I responded with temperature readings and symptoms. He was communicating back and forth with OW and me to compare symptoms of the kids.
I told H that the baby would only drink apple juice, and we had run out. I didn't ask him to bring any, but he offered and came over soon after (1%?) We made a plan for taking the baby to the hospital if his fever got worse.
[I was on my computer the whole time, playing on these boards- trying to seem occupied] H stood opposite of the desk and looked sad. I asked what's gong on and he unloaded (not angry) with how he was frustrated that he didn't get to do what he planned today- "but you can't help when kids get sick". He also made a point of telling me what his plans were for the rest of the weekend (non of which involved OW and her kids)... opening up for a reason?? He lingered for a little bit, then walked to the door- I never got up from my computer.... and actually started this post as I was listening to him.
I said: "good bye" from my desk
H said: "bye babe"
I don't want to overanalyze (too late, already doing it) but was this a good thing that he shared without me questioning? Why do they do this? I know, I know... have no expectations.
Let me know what you think.....
[Many people on here have said to look for the positives, and applaud the 1% they do.]
The baby is sick today. I text H after he left this morning to let him know about his fever. We both became concerned that he might be getting sick from whatever D6 has a the hospital today (since they've spent the last few days together.) H kept texting/asking how our baby was doing, I responded with temperature readings and symptoms.
this^^^ is positive
He was communicating back and forth with OW and me to compare symptoms of the kids.
I told H that the baby would only drink apple juice, and we had run out. I didn't ask him to bring any, but he offered and came over soon after (1%?) We made a plan for taking the baby to the hospital if his fever got worse.
this^^^ is positive
[I was on my computer the whole time, playing on these boards- trying to seem occupied] H stood opposite of the desk and looked sad. I asked what's gong on and he unloaded (not angry) with how he was frustrated that he didn't get to do what he planned today- "but you can't help when kids get sick".
he shared and you can validate...or not...whatever...but the sharing is a positive too. And it's good you didn't say "well, ,DUH" when he finished with the blindingly insightful comment that one "can't help when kids get sick"...he has an adult in there...
He also made a point of telling me what his plans were for the rest of the weekend (non of which involved OW and her kids)... opening up for a reason?? He lingered for a little bit, then walked to the door-
all^^^ positives...
I never got up from my computer....
why not? What was the goal here? To look busy? Okay I get that...BUT
how about making full eye contact when he speaks to you, listening without arguing or dismissing but just HEARING him, so you show you really value everything he says? Just food for thought...
and actually started this post as I was listening to him.
I said: "good bye" from my desk
H said: "bye babe"
Not negative...but read nothing into the use of the word "babe" b/c he used it with you the same day or week he dropped both bombs...sorry.
But like I said, it's not a negative...
I don't want to overanalyze (too late, already doing it) but was this a good thing that he shared without me questioning? Why do they do this? I know, I know... have no expectations.
yes, you know...no expectations...but be warm and receptive and pleasant b/c you are a fun loving, life living woman with a lot going on for her and in her future...
IF & When he brings up the Div or the OW, then you say "whoah h, I only just learned that you wanted out AND that a woman I considered my bff is actually your interest...
so I am behind you on the "acceptance" continuum and need a lot more time to process things..."you can use that last line to delay any decisions he wants if you are not ready. You have a right not to be ready....for awhile. Then you need to get your ducks in order. I'd see a L when you can--they're free for activie duty so see the JAG officer on base and get their counsel. I was a JAG officer and in most states we cannot represent the party in court but we can advise about the military aspects and what if anything you'd be entitled to.
You have a valid health insurance issue...but now I can't recall how long you've been married...and was he military the whole time?
as for OW? I don't reflect on her...not worth the energy AND not within your control...
anything that's not in your control, really needs to be let go of asap...
crucial step to detachment AND a happier life in general anyhow
so did you thank him for bringing the juice over?
That's the applause part...not easy but not complicated. And it works.
I think you might have done well!! You 'freaked out' on a situation where it was perfectly justified, but you didn't "freak out".
You showed strength and a bit of ... dare I say it, distain?
I can't help but think that it's got his cogs churning.
Yay! I feel like this is a huge deal!
Now let this carry you forward, with your GALing, with your detachment, etc.
And not responding to him only helped this situation in my opinion.
Yay yay yay!
I've been having the 'why do I want him' thoughts a lot. I can say that I don't want *this* man, but the man that I know he can be.... But who's to say that the one I know will ever come back?
Been having the same thoughts about my wife lately too. Even her family, who's reached out to me, seems to think I've put up with more than is reasonable. She's basically cleaned out our account twice this month so I had to take her off - all afternoon she's been texting quite angrily. And hatefully.
25- Yes, I did thank him for bringing the juice.
And I didn't make it clear, but when I was at my desk and he was telling me about his plans, I did stop what I was doing and look him in the eye. I validated his plans by saying: "sounds like you're going to have fun with the guys!" (they are building a cabinet and going to a gun show- TOTAL guy stuff)
When he left for the door, I watched him, but he never looked back.
I've been talking to a L for 2 weeks- so far she's just helping me understand what I'm entitled to and reviewing the papers that H and I have been drafting. He has yet to settle on a L (he's had consults with 3 so far). I've already paid a retainer for mine- so I'm a little farther along than him. He has said that he's excited that I'm taking this seriously (drives the knife in a little more)
In regards to health insurance- we have been discussing the possibility of staying 'separated' indefinitely- for insurance, taxes, married BAS and BAH. He said: "I can't see anything wring with that." He was commissioned 1 year after we got married (2 days before our 1st anniv.)
Thanks for validating my sitch- so I can avoid analyzing and picking apart the conversations
111- I really hope it's gotten something churning in him.... He seemed a little shocked then I said that I didn't want him anymore.... maybe the reality of not having me is sinking in. Up until now, I believe he felt that I would still be there waiting for him.... maybe I should 'stage a date'? A friend of mine has a brother whose a little younger than me, but he might play along
Kolja- It's a harsh reality to think that you might *not want* them back. You and I both came here around the same time, so it's only been a couple months of DBing, but maybe these feelings we've been having, are the first steps to true detachment? I've heard people say that when they finally accept that the M is really over and approach every interaction in a detached way- that the WAS gets a little nervous.
I can feel a change of acceptance coming over me... it feels strange, but I'm ok.
so I'm a little farther along than him. He has said that he's excited that I'm taking this seriously (drives the knife in a little more)
Ugg.. :eek
25- Yes, I did thank him for bringing the juice.
And I didn't make it clear, but when I was at my desk and he was telling me about his plans, I did stop what I was doing and look him in the eye. I validated his plans by saying: "sounds like you're going to have fun with the guys!" (they are building a cabinet and going to a gun show- TOTAL guy stuff)
When he left for the door, I watched him, but he never looked back.
I've been talking to a L for 2 weeks- so far she's just helping me understand what I'm entitled to and reviewing the papers that H and I have been drafting. He has yet to settle on a L (he's had consults with 3 so far). I've already paid a retainer for mine- so I'm a little farther along than him. He has said that he's excited that I'm taking this seriously (drives the knife in a little more)
In regards to health insurance- we have been discussing the possibility of staying 'separated' indefinitely- for insurance, taxes, married BAS and BAH. He said: "I can't see anything wring with that." He was commissioned 1 year after we got married (2 days before our 1st anniv.)
Thanks for validating my sitch- so I can avoid analyzing and picking apart the conversations
his financial and medical reasons for staying married ARE sound if you can handle the "limbo" part of it but I'm guessing his suggestion SOUNDS more like a "for your sake pretense"...and for now I say "take it!"
If you are married, I think over 10 (ask the JAG) you'll get some of his retirement. My sister was m to a pilot for 13 years, no kids and she never worked...though they had wacky assignments, I did feel she should have contributed something to the marriage financially or done volunteer work or gone to grad school or something...
but she gained 80lbs instead and was shocked when her h left her...she really was. He left her for his 1st cousin, w/whom my sister had confided in and had a "close friendship"....if that makes you feel any better. (it's only legal in half the states--I checked)
but anyhow, she gets 1/3 of his retirement forever, regardless of whether she remarries...
in contrast, my older sister was m for 22 years, 3 kids, and ALWAYS worked full time, Even put her h thru law school. She gets NO alimony and they split the house. Different states...different results.
But i guess when I really truly want to focus on FAIRNESS....
I go check
AFRICA!! and shut the heck up...
point is,
I can see value in staying m, even if only in name, for practical reasons
IF YOU can handle it emotionally and not feel it holds you back from moving forward.Especially if you think, down deep, it's only b/c you hope he'll change his mind.
OTOH, it does make the road home paved & smoother, doesn't it?
Glad you talked to a L but I'd keep those cards close to my chest for now. And I'm extra glad he's seen
three L's...
Maybe he doesn't love the answers he's getting..