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Posted By: Autumn Leaves Feeling like I am changing - 01/05/12 03:23 PM
So I have been doing a lot of reflecting and introspection. After I had the conversation with H last week, not much has really changed around here. It felt like some lip service, and I guess I am so drained that I don't feel like I care. That or I am truly detached. Some days I wonder if I can truly let go of the detachment, I think I like it.

In addition to the sitch with my H, my teenage boys seem to be more angry and taking it out on me. They are talking down to me, and imitating H. I feel uncomfortable in my own home. I don't feel like I want to be here. Three separate people taking me for granted.

So in the past week, I have gone to the movies with a friend and just planned a fun day of indoor rock climbing with another friend. I dream about getting in my car and just going.

This morning H asked me about it and I told him about how the boys have been treating me. He emailed me when he got to work, and said "I need to step up as a parent, you need a break. Let me drive for a while. Do what you need for you, and I support you"

I am taking it! I need the break and the kids prefer him right now anyway. I am taking the time to truly work on me, because I feel like a stranger in my own home these days. After years of trying to keep things happy and giving to all of them, they have officially drained me. Even when filling my own tank, they drain it faster than I can fill it back up.

It's time for me!
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/06/12 12:59 AM
"I need to step up as a parent, you need a break. Let me drive for a while. Do what you need for you, and I support you"

Go for it!

I know what you mean about the sons. I think S19 blames me for dad leaving so we tangle quite often. But I must admit, he's a lot like his dad so I may also be reacting to that. It's all so complicated.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/06/12 05:58 PM
Exactly labug, sometimes I wonder how much of it is normal teenage attitude and how much is the crazy household we currently live in.

I went out with a friend last night and had a great time. I actually stayed out later than I normally would on a work night but was having a good time.

When I got home I thought everyone was asleep but H was awake and waiting for me, lightly sleeping to hear me come in. He wanted to tell me that he had a good conversation with the boys and they were all going to do their part. He said the boys were nodding along and really wanted to help out more, just simple chores around the house and less attitude will go a long way.

This morning I got up to see them off to school and they were both different, and I am so thankful for that. My relationship with my boys is not a part of this, and I refuse to have that affected.

H left for work and mid morning I got an email to see how I am feeling. I responded "good, looking forward to the weekend"
He responded that he feels better that he is doing this with the kids and feels good about taking back some control"

I responded that I am glad to hear it and that the boys really crave it. They needed me more when they were little, nurturing, etc. Now they need to learn to become men and this will be good for all 3 of them.

So for this I am very thankful for my kids!!

I have a friend who is going through a divorce with her H and we have been hanging out quite a bit. Going to the movies, etc. Turns out we have so much in common, both like the same things, places to visit, etc. We both put that part of ourselves aside because our H's didn't like those places (same places ironically).

So I am really looking forward to some GAL activities with my friend and doing some things I have been missing.
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/06/12 06:20 PM
Sounds like you are making progress!

Keep up the good work.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/06/12 06:22 PM
My friends H asked me if I was having a MLC! Hahaha I almost fell out of my chair. Nobody really knows out sitch, other than a few close friends that each of us have confided in.

So over the past few weeks/months my friends and I have used facebook at times for GAL activities, whether to plan them or share photos, etc.

So yesterday a small group of us were discussing rock climbing and getting super excited. The group grew thanks to the public discussioin..the more the merrier.

My friends H got on and said "is someone having a MLC...talking to you Autumn"

I didn't respond at all, just moved along. Doing something fun and healthy, after sitting in this house waiting (not sure for what) is not like I went out and got an OM, motorcylce, hot rod.

It rubbed me the wrong way though
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/06/12 11:56 PM
Hi Autumn! Where's my invite to Rick climb?!?! smile

I've been reading along, w/not much to add.

I'm glad your husband is taking the leaf w/the boys for a bit. I certainly can relate to feeling like its overwhelming.

Funny you should mention a situation w/the boys...

My xH is a complete KID, flies off the handle swearing at the top of a hat, and is really a piss poor example for my boys. He has visitation that he can "handle", and that's good for the boys, but it does present a lot of teaching moments.

I do a lot of explaining to them what behaviors/reactions are appropriate. I try really hard to spin it into not sounding like a Dad bashing. So far so good. Just never lose the opportunity to continuously teach them what is right.

Off to a bball game!
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/07/12 02:21 AM
Good for you for getting out there and rock climbing. That seems like something even your teenage boys might think was cool too.

I have been hanging with some divorced friends as well and it sometimes gets me nervous cause I dont want to be divorced like them but hanging out with married friends is just too weird most of the time.

I feel isolated from my married friends cause its so hard to talk to them about the sitch. Many think I should just tell H to take a hike and they think I'm being naive that H can return to M and it be okay.

Hang in there, glad you H talk to the boys is having positive results:)
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/10/12 07:03 AM
Hey Autumn!

That is in the Midlife Crisis for Dummies......

You will get skinny and have people will think you are the one having a MLC!

Just keep having fun!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/10/12 05:24 PM
Of course you are invited to rock climb mindfull smile

I am glad he is taking the lead too. It is actually a 180 for me to step back and let him. It will ultimately be best for the boys and I can see that.

In the past week he has really done a great job, getting involved more, having them come to him first on some things, and even getting up at 2am when S17 was vomiting last night. Told me to stay put unless they need me, and I did just that. Had to sit on my hands a bit but I did it haha

Another 180 is to thank him, and tell him that he is doing a great job with them. I apologized for not saying it earlier, and he said "you did" but I think he was just saying that.

Funny you mentioned that Brklyn, I am actually planning to take the boys. When they found out that I was going they were so proud of me, and slightly surprised. I realized it may be a good thing to do with them as well. Make it a challenge. They have such busy schedules that I will have to work it in.

Too funny Weniki, at least it is common and not just my situation. I'll have to check out that book sometime. I am ordering a book and CD by Marianne Williamson and continuing to work on me. Looking forward to it!

Had a doctor appt this morning and he was happy to see my weight loss especially over the holiday. Seemed happy with the mild AD's I am taking and just checking to see how things are overall. He asked if H would come in to see him, and I said "i doubt it but thank you" I told him that H has asked for marriage counseling and he said "it is a good start, maybe then they can discuss IC with him as well"

Some very good news! My S15 made the high school basketball team. He was already doing a travel and rec league but the HS team is a huge accomplishment. He just found out yesterday that he is starting. I am so very proud and can't wait to go to the first game next week. I am so thankful to have a flexible work schedule to be able to do this.

Through all of this I want the boys to be ok, well I want all of us to be ok but you know what I mean.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 02:22 AM
Lots of good news!
Posted By: purgatory Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 02:51 AM
I think it's great that you can do something empowering for yourself. It's kind of like a metaphor for DB:

Each obstacle you come you: you have to determine the *strongest* hold, which direction to go, sometimes you have to stop completely and step back a little to see the bigger picture, move slowly forward/upward, you get really tired along the way- but when you overcome one of the obstacles, you feel strong and ready to tackle more.

Looks like things are moving up for you smile
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 04:43 AM
Hey Autumn!

Midlife Crisis was a spoof thread. You can read it here:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=960393&page=1

Warning, no drinking liquids while reading, or you will spit on computer!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 07:00 PM
So some solid 180's this week that I am quite proud of, and feel like I am making some progress (for myself not necessarily for my M, that has yet to be seen)

After hearing a glowing recommendation from someone who went through it and found it life changing, I signed up for a 4 day workshop. I think this sentence from the description excites me the most "The Workshop marks the beginning of a new, more positive phase of life, a phase of greater awareness, connection, confidence, accomplishment and joy.

The timing was not coincidental I think, I really feel like I need this right now. So I checked with H to see if he can keep the kids and house running while I am gone and he said yes. I think he is under the impression that it is a work conference, and I am not intentionally keeping it from him but if he doesn't ask..I won't offer. I feel like that would be too pursuing, like I need him to know that I am working on myself. I don't need him to know that.

My wedding anniversary is at the end of February and that is actually when things really started to go badly for us, an event that happened on my actual anniversary triggered a lot.

This morning via IM he mentioned that our neighors sons bachelor party falls on that weekend. He said that it is on the Friday, and its an overnighter. So I simply responded "oh ok, have fun" and tried to end the conversation by saying "thank you for checking your calendar for my workshop, I am going to book it now. Talk to you later"

He came back with "hey, don't worry. Our anniversary comes first. I will figure this out"

I said "ok, we can talk later"

Not freaking out was a 180 for me. Does it hurt that the bachelor party is still on the table at all, sure it does. But under the circumstances I can't be surprised.

I do think he was expecting me to freak out when he mentioned the date of the bachelor party. He did seem surprised at my reaction or lack thereof. It was real, it was not an act by any stretch.

One of his biggest issues with me is that he feels like I control. So who am I to tell him what to do with his weekend. Honestly, if I have to tell him to spend our anniversary together, than do I really want to? It certainly wouldn't mean much if it is forced.

His reaction was also surprising to me. Telling me that the anniversary comes first is nice. We will see what comes of it.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 07:20 PM
Thanks so much purgatory and Wenitiki. Can't wait to read that thread smile
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/11/12 09:53 PM
Hi Autumn...

I like your 180 w/not reacting to the anniversary/bachelor party conflict.

I have to share.

I learned something very important, throughout my separation, and eventual divorce.

There will be all kinds of conflicts, especially, as we share children, so I've had to "let go" of the "celebrating on the actual day" A LOT.

If anyone is worth anything to you, it doesn't matter if there's a conflict... So long as you celebrate together (near the timing of the event) at a time that works, w/no grudges.

The conference sounds like work, and fantastic!!!

My Salmost15 plays bball in high school, too. He's playing Freshman bball, which is a big change for him. He is an outstanding athlete, and bball is like his fifth sport. He Varsity lettered in Football (kicker) and Soccer in the Fall. He wasn't sure about bball, but it's my favorite. So, I told him that I wouldn't drive him to soccer (this winter) if he didn't play bball. LoL He's loving it, and it's really good for him to be 6th or 7th man in. He's improving a ton, and outside his comfort zone. (He's usually using his foot on a ball!) My S12 plays bball, too. I'm in heaven right now. I just LOVE the sport. Oh, and love to watch the Wisconsin Badgers and Illinois, TOO! Wait, I love Marquette, as well. Oh, and the Tar Heels.

HAHA

I'm so glad for your son!!!!! Have fun, cheering. My only complaint about bball is that my voice carries too much in the gym! It's no secret whose mom is helping coach from the other side!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/12/12 09:40 PM
I've been trying very hard to keep on the right path, and it is tough when we have the push and pull.

When H got home from work he asked me what the workshop was about, and I guess I wasn't really prepared to answer. I guess I should have thought it through, or possibly I just want this for me for right now. I don't want him to have the opportunity to turn this or use it against me.

I simply said "its tough to explain" and he looked quizzical, said "Ok" and dropped it.

I think I needed to do this for me, and consider it a 180. In the past I would have felt the need to share every detail and get approval.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/12/12 10:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I've been trying very hard to keep on the right path, and it is tough when we have the push and pull.

When H got home from work he asked me what the workshop was about, and I guess I wasn't really prepared to answer. I guess I should have thought it through, or possibly I just want this for me for right now. I don't want him to have the opportunity to turn this or use it against me.

I simply said "its tough to explain" and he looked quizzical, said "Ok" and dropped it.

I think I needed to do this for me, and consider it a 180. In the past I would have felt the need to share every detail and get approval.


Just tell him "It's a self-improvement thing, and it's personal," and then either leave or change the subject.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/13/12 05:23 PM
Journaling

Nothing really new to report. H took S15 to basketball last night and I was watching a show that only I enjoy when they got home, so I left the main tv for them. H grabbed a glass of wine and came out to sit with me, although he was feeling tired he said "i wanted to spend a little time with you" Just had some small talk and he went to bed.

I enjoyed some time with the boys watching a show with them.

The weekends always bring a new challenge because we are all at home. I've got a few things planned which will be nice, and I plan to pick up a new book as well.

Organizing some of the clutter this weekend may feel good. Just to feel productive.

I've also been setting some goals for myself, some are related to marriage and some not.

1. To be less fearful-change happens and I need to learn how to roll with it and grow from it. I need to stop getting trapped in my own fear.

2. Challenge myself - I want to do things that I have previously held myself back from (for various reasons). If I have the chance to try something new or something I've always wanted to do, I will make an attempt to do it.

3. Meeting new people - we have so many friends in common, and I feel like I need to enjoy a group of friends that are not common friends. Maybe join a class of some type?

So there it is, in writing so that I can hold myself accountable.
Posted By: WenikiTiki Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/13/12 07:16 PM
Hey Autumn!

25 mentioned Meetup.com. It is for groups of people setting up activities for folks to get together. You can put in something you want to do: like hike, take photos, concert. Then it tells you when someone has planed an activity. It isn't a dating site.

I haven't gone to anything yet, but plan to!

One of the groups I was too old to join had an activity that was attending the art/flea sale I am pert of. That made me smile, because I met so many nice folks there!

I also really like your goal to be less fearful. I was thinking in bed this morning and realized that I shouldn't be so afraid of change. Thanks for reinforcing that!

Have a good weekend!

Wendy
Posted By: BklynMom Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/13/12 07:46 PM
"To be less fearful-change happens and I need to learn how to roll with it and grow from it. I need to stop getting trapped in my own fear."

Love this goal!

You sound like you are in a really good place. Keep it up. And give us all the details after the conference.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/13/12 08:00 PM
Autumn... It sounds like you need to get Autumn back.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/16/12 03:14 PM
Thanks Wendy and Bklyn!! Hope you both had a great weekend. That is what I love about this place, so many times I will read a post that really resonates with me. I'm glad that goal was helpful to both of you as well! I need to see things in writing sometimes, it helps.

I will check out Meetup.com, that is a great idea. I've heard of it but never thought of it.

Weekend was nice, spent some time with the kids at their games and also got some good alone time. I did get around to organizing some but never did get the book. I hope to get it today after work.

Kids are off for MLK day today so I will only work half day, and try to spend some time with them as well. I really enjoy their company. D17 is having car issues, so I will try to help him get that sorted out.

Tomorrow H and I are taking S17 to college of choice to meet with admissions. No expectations but glad we are doing this together. It is a big day for S17.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/16/12 03:16 PM
mindfull, somehow I didn't see your post until mine showed up. I'm glad I did! That is exactly what I am hoping to do. I don't know if I ever completely knew Autumn. I dated H and married very young. I think I have a lot to learn and entering my 40th year is a good time to find that out. I couldn't agree with you more. I think the workshop is going to be great for this!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 03:20 PM
Not much to report the past few days. Just work as usual and fighting cold, which is really slowing me down. Better now so that I am feeling better for the workshop. Getting excited as it gets closer.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 04:00 PM
Hey, Autumn!!!

Can't wait to hear about the workshop.

How is H doing handling the boys?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 04:35 PM
So far so good, it is not natural for either of us but we are learning. Typically with me being sick, I would still be taking care of 100% and he has stepped up in some ways and I have let him. It is odd for the boys, because they are used to coming to me, but I ultimately think it is good for them to know that they can and should go to H.

Very sad that I will miss D15's first HS game today (other than a scrimmage the other day). It is an away game and I am not feeling up to it. Will still play it by ear as it gets closer, but have a ton of work to get caught up on too. There will be others.

How is basketball going for your crew, mf?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 06:24 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
Not much to report the past few days. Just work as usual and fighting cold, which is really slowing me down. Better now so that I am feeling better for the workshop. Getting excited as it gets closer.


I am excited for you.


By all means, get your immunity boosts NOW and bring them with you-esp purell, those huge fizzie tablets with immunity boosts you can buy, Vit C, etc... and tylenol and decongestants and whatever makes you feel better!

I brought a back support -thank GOD - b/c I was pregnant when I went, and already in pain from a disc injury. Is your first name in your screename? If you want to connect in an alt universe to talk about it, let me know your first name here or alt univ-fb-and i'll figure out a way to connect, if u like.

Of all things though, Finally, remember I said this: trust their process. They know what they are doing.

You may be very uncomfortable with some of your insights, esp the first night. You may not understand it all, but as I said, TRUST the process and it IS a process. You WILL eventually "get it"...there's a lot of thought that goes into this workshop and at the end, You'll leave knowing what you need.

The more you put into it, the more you'll get out of it. (Gee, kind of Like DBing, and Life!)

I'm so happy for you and I'm so proud of your guts & trust.

((((( )))))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 06:51 PM
Thanks so much 25, it is thanks to your posts that I had the courage to sign up. I made my final payment today so it is all set. Just another week!!

Hmm I would love to connect in alt univ to talk about it. My name is so painfully common that it may be difficult. First name is Michelle, but last name is just as common. I can't edit this if I post my alt univ name, can I?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/18/12 11:44 PM
I can get it with EE...and figure it out from there...IN TIME!!

((( )))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/19/12 12:14 AM
Perfect!!! When you look for it, it lists my maiden name and last name on alt. maiden name starts with S. It will help with common last name.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/19/12 06:19 PM
Hey, Autumn...

Good Luck at the conference!!!

I'm headed out to S14's Championship Final Game for a tournament tonight.. Not sure how they made it this far after seeing them play last night! Oy! They ALL looked like dorks!

Thinking of you...

A bunch of us are in the alt, too... under DeeBee(DB Screenname). I probably "Liked" Divorce Busting... easy to find.

Then you can put a face to a name!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/20/12 05:20 PM
Journaling

So happy that the weekend is finally here. I am ready for it. Have a hair appointment tomorrow but we are expecting some snow so we will see. I am hoping to get there and do something nice for myself.

Both boys have basketball which is always fun! Looking forward to a home game this afternoon.

MF, how did the tournament go? Hope it was good!

Had a happy hour for a friend last night. She is starting a new job and coworkers were sending her off in style smile
Was a lot of fun! Wasn't out late, can't handle that on a work night anymore but some good stories and good laughs.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/24/12 03:04 PM
It's been a few days. The weekend was good and uneventful, which is also nice. Lots of games for the boys, no wins sadly.


So as the workshop is getting closer, H seems more interested. I really don't want to share too much with him just yet. I want to see what its all about and what I get out of it, for me. I gave him the address of course, and there is an emergency number in case he needs to reach me (emergency only). Other than that, he knows that it is a skill building workshop. No real details.

Last night, when he came home he said "i know that I don't say it enough but I will really miss you while you are away at this workshop. Not for the things you do around here, but for this" and pointed between himself and I. I thanked him. I am actually quite excited for this time away, but didn't want to make a big deal.

He asked me if we can go out to dinner as a family on Wednesday night to send me off.

Our anniversary is coming up next month and falls right between a bachelor party he is attending and a business trip he will take with his boss. He said he wanted to go somewhere overnight for our anniversary. On my last call with my DB coach she said that I should let him plan it and go along.

So last night he was hinting that I should find a place. When I didn't say anything, he said "you know what, I will plan it. I will handle it"

My biggest 180's lately have been giving up control in the home and with the kids, and letting him step up to do things. He has thanked me many times for this, and said he was feeling like a failure as a parent before this. For the kids, this will be good as well.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/24/12 03:22 PM
Wow Autumn, This^^^^^ is great! Your DB'ing, GAL, and 180's seem to really be working great. Be proud and re-read what you just posted.

Best!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/24/12 03:58 PM
Hey Autumn, you sound like you're doing very well. You will get a lot out of the conference with that attitude.

I want to offer a word of caution for you. There is a workshop that I really like that I've attended over the past 15 years. I hope to take the next step this year. It has been amazing and I have grown so much.

A few years ago, I went to a conference with my W, a business partner and her H. My business partner and her H got a lot out of it and grew individually and as a couple in amazing ways. My W... not so much...

I would submit it is likely ONE trigger that has led to the sitch we find ourselves in, now. I believe it brought up so much repressed issues that she couldn't deal with. She never opened up to me about it, simply indicated that she would talk to me later about it. Never did. And then for a long time would make negative remarks about using the tools as well as the cost of the workshop.

So the point is, keep your expectations low for your H and high for yourself. YOU will get a tremendous amount of value from this, if you are open to accepting it. Your H COULD get a tremendous value from it, if he is open to it. But try not to expect him to. It will be his own experience and let him work through it, how ever much or little it appears to be, to you. Even the smallest amount of growth can be hugely traumatic.

In no way do I blame my sitch on the workshop nor any other trigger. I am fully aware that my W's journey is her own and I only want the best for her and for her to grow, every moment and every opportunity she can, with or without me. It hurt when her path diverged from mine, but so be it. I got through it and my W will, also.

It is an exciting time for you! Enjoy it!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/24/12 06:06 PM
Thank you so much SIAS!

And thanks for the feedback about your conference too KD. It is actually just me attending but your point made me consider that what I get from it could potentially affect H (negatively or positively) based on what I get out of it, and what I bring home with me.

I fully intend to get the most out of this. Something you said really resonates with me, I am only responsible for my own path and and H for his. I can want the best for him but not do it for him.

Thanks so much for your post, I will absolutely keep that in mind.
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/24/12 06:16 PM
np, Autumn. Yes, these conferences really are about take. They are completely "safe" and our take is completely limited by us. As soon as we go into resistance (which is an internal indicator that we have work to do in that area) and we close ourselves off to the opportunity to grow, we loose out and only hurt ourselves.

I misread and thought your H was going, as well. No matter your take, and you may be instructed this way, please do not "push" your experience on your H. He will get everything he needs by experiencing your own personal growth from the experience. And that by itself, will be able to help nudge your own sitch in a positive direction.

Cheers!
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/26/12 12:16 AM
Hey, Autumn!

Aren't you leaving tomorrow!?! If so, the very best of luck, and personal growth.

Just another nugget of advice/wisdom, etc... You KNOW just because you have a H that has had an affair in the past, and/or acts suspect, is unhappy now, or sporadically... It doesn't mean there's something wrong with you, or that you NEED to do work. Sometimes, it is truly just them.

With that said... Don't go looking for issues/traits to fix. But, be open to improving what YOU want to...

I see that come up on here a lot. It bothers me. None of us are perfect, but good, good spouses get dumped on for no reason sometimes. It can just be a selfish WAS projecting, too.

Just don't lose yourself.

You know where to find me!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/26/12 01:58 PM
Thanks so much KD!! Great advice!

Hi MF!

Actually I am going into this focused on things that I know I need to work on that have nothing to do with my H. To become the best me that I can, or at least begin to do the work. I am pretty excited about it.

I completely get where you are coming from and I appreciate it very much.

I will check in soon. Hope your weekend is good, and hope you are feeling better.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/26/12 02:57 PM
I'm looking forward to hearing about your experience!

Good luck.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/26/12 03:06 PM
Thanks labug!! I really appreciate the support. I think I am most excited about the few days away LOL

Thankfully my boys are older and can really help around the house, with chores and the dog. I don't worry that they will do without anything. H will be here in the evenings but they can fend for themselves for the most part.

A few nights in a hotel is such a blessing to me right now. No responsibility, just focused on me. I don't think I have EVER done that.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/26/12 03:40 PM
I looked at the schedule for the workshop and it seems they keep you quite busy.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 04:30 PM
Ok, Girlfriend... Where's the update?!?!?!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 06:51 PM
I got back from the workshop late last night and I am exhausted to say the least. It is very busy but AMAZING!!! I highly recommend it to anyone who can do it.

So I don't have much of an update because I haven't been home in 4 days. But I have had some amazing personal growth and for that I am very thankful. I have a lot to process!!

I am working to read and catch up on some other sitch's too!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 07:12 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I got back from the workshop late last night and I am exhausted to say the least. It is very busy but AMAZING!!! I highly recommend it to anyone who can do it.

So I don't have much of an update because I haven't been home in 4 days. But I have had some amazing personal growth and for that I am very thankful. I have a lot to process!!

I am working to read and catch up on some other sitch's too!




That is great news...I didn't tell them who you were so as not to bias anything. Very glad you got from it what I thought you might. You were/are so ready for change, and now you have started it with a guide map and confidence to boot.

YAY!...

cool
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 07:14 PM
25 I mentioned that I knew someone who went through and they wanted to know who. Had to explain not only do I not know them personally, I don't even know her real name. They were trying to guess and are pretty sure they know, but I told the conductors that they can connect us smile Graduation was phenomenal!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 07:19 PM
Hard to overstate its' value, eh?

SO glad you went....dang I am smiling now.

laugh
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 07:29 PM
I can't thank you enough for telling me about it. I know that it is truly life changing and the ongoing support that I have now is truly a gift. It is compltely indescribable.

I am smiling right along with ya!!
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 09:24 PM
Can't wait to hear more! I might need to work a few extra shifts to go.
Posted By: purgatory Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/30/12 09:41 PM
25 told me about the workshop too.... I've been saving up to go in April!!!

I would love to eat more about your experience so I know what to expect...
Glad it was as wonderful a you had hoped!!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 12:35 PM
well dang, if ya'll are going I may as well go back and do "Team" again...

but then I think, "nah, they need to go and get the full "anonymous" dealio".

What do you think Autumn?

I went and my sil (whom I was/am close to) did Team, but she told me for a few of the exercises, that she'd be stepping out or doing dinner, so I could feel zero inhibitions, etc.

I knew she wanted me to be comfortable about ANYTHING - including family issues, and on the chance that I might be inhibited, she removed herself as an obstacle.

There were a few minutes I felt better about her stepping out, but in general, I really loved having someone there who knew me and had done it and thought I'd get something out of it...I trusted her and she was SO right... So I was glad when she stepped back into the room. And I have not, in 20 years, heard someone reveal something inappropriate about another person.

It's nice when people recognize the value of keeping their commitments and are not just whining about the "Costs" and hassles of it.

so, what's your take on it Autumn? Were you worried someone from DB (moi??)
was there, or anything like that? Would you have been as comfy with a semi friend from the virtual world?

When I went as a participant, for ME, it was the safest place to "get it all out" that I ever felt. And someone there knew me, but like I said, I trusted her --enough to spend money we did not then have, to go and get my head screwed on a bit straighter.

Autumn, I can call Eric if you want, and I can your # from him or visa versa. Would love to hear more about the experiences in a way that's comfortable and appropriate.

Peeps, understand that b/c it's "experiential" (as opposed to lectures, readings, etc) Autumn can't go on & on about it specifically, or tell you everything (But don't worry. It's not a weirdo cult.


Retrovaille also suggests we not share details of our experience with others for similar reasons.


And like Retrovaille, which I also attended --some of it has to "hit you for the first time THERE" so you can't BS yourself with a "nice sounding" answer.

I used to internally rehearse my answers for mc. I didn't see anything wrong or unhealthy about it. Thought I was preparing...But I had no idea what I was also repressing.

So, hence the approach.

Gosh I'm glad you went! laugh

xoxo
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:05 PM
25 I was actually sad that you weren't there for my workshop! It wouldn't have changed my experience and I still would have been just as open to get my full experience.

I hope to be able to serve on a team in the future too.

Yes please do call Eric. He is aware of the situation and will definitely give you my contact info. I originally told Joanne and ended up speaking with Eric and Barb as well, about how I can to find them but not knowing your real name. I know that he will help us to connect. I will be seeing everyone on Sunday, thankfully.

25 is right, I can't really get into specifics. It truly is an experience and different for each person. Outside of the Q&A on the site, there are no firm answers that will be helpful. I highly recommend it!

So going in, I didn't tell my H what it was specifically. I was thankful that he didn't press because I wanted to be in the right frame of mind.

When I got home he asked more questions. I showed him the site and told him that I would answer any questions that I could.

He said it looked great and he was happy that it made me happy. But at one point he felt like it may have been all about him, and an H bashing session. I tried to explain that this was all about me and my growth and happiness, and not focused on him.

He said "you are different since you came back from there". He said it negatively, but inside I smiled. I replied "you are right, I am different"

In the course of the conversation, I said "we have been dancing around each other for months, pretending on the surface to keep from arguing but I can't keep going like this. I need MC and need you to make your decision"

He was angry at first and said "you are making an ultimatum" and I nodded. This may be anti DB but I am sick of swimming upstream with no results or happiness.

At the end of the conversation he said "fine we will go to MC and find a way to do this or end it"

We had some alone time and later he asked me to join him, offered an apology and peace offering. He was affectionate, arm around me with no talking.

He briefly mentioned MC again and I said "if you prefer, you can attend EE in place of MC for now because I think you really would benefit from it. But its your call"

He didn't say yes but didn't say no.

This morning he was affectionate again, just rubbed my arm and hair.

I think that conversation was scary but needed to happen. I followed up with "I really do want my marriage and hope that MC is going to help with that" Hearing him say "work it out or end it" was nothing new to me but hard to hear.

What I have learned is, no matter what happens I am strong, resilient and I will be ok. I have a very strong support system in place now and I feel like I will make it to the other side, no matter what that may be.

So that is where I am today....one step at a time.
Posted By: nhmom Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:16 PM
AL -

Your workshop sounds interesting!

I also wanted to say that you were brave to bring up MC to your H. And it's a positive thing that he agreed! I wish my H would agree, I don't know if he ever will. And the fact that he said "work it out or end it" is also positive. Yes, it's hard to hear, but the fact that he seems open to "working it out" is amazing! Of course, the next big thing is finding the "right" MC. Unless you have someone in mind already, try out a couple of different ones.

You are very strong and resilient, and you WILL be ok!!
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:18 PM
Wow, Autumn, just Wow. I think I'm in a very similar place with my H and our current almost non-situation.

I wasn't wanting specifics, just general impressions. I would guess this is the type of event that will take you a long time to process.

I appreciate that 25 keeps reminding that it's not a "cult" type experience. I have zero interest in finding a guru. I went to something with friends last fall and spent a lot of money I really didn't have at the time and was so disappointed as it seemed to me to be a marketing event for this young guy who would like to be a guru. You could even spend money to have personal time with him. The whole thing made me feel icky.

If I went it wouldn't be until later in the year, not April.
Posted By: Oneeleven Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:24 PM
Wow encore A.L! Even across the net you sound.... refreshed. Congrats on the milestone
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:30 PM
labug, my general impression was very good. Not at all a cult like experience or guru of any type. I never felt icky in any way, and I am an extremely reserved person. I'm really sorry to hear that you had that experience with the event you attended. You took your chances and it doesn't sound good.

You are right, it is definitely going to take some time to process. I am ok with that, actually.

I'm sorry that you and H are in a similar sitch, sometimes the not knowing is difficult. H admits to not wanting to talk and wanting to shove everything under the rug. I guess admitting it is a good thing.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:36 PM
Baby steps and little improvements are all we can hope for!

Even tho the experience was generally not good, I got to spend some time in a nice hotel room by myself, reading, watching movies, surfing the net. Some of the workshops (this was a 4-day thing)were good. And I did learn some things about myself, so it wasn't a total loss.
Posted By: sayitaintso Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves
I said "we have been dancing around each other for months, pretending on the surface to keep from arguing but I can't keep going like this. I need MC and need you to make your decision"

He was angry at first and said "you are making an ultimatum" and I nodded. This may be anti DB but I am sick of swimming upstream with no results or happiness.

he said "fine we will go to MC and find a way to do this or end it"



This ^^^ is great Autumn. You seem so confident in expressing this to your H. You have come a long way, way to go. Now of course you may be starting a new phase or journey so keep fousing on you as you move forward.

Best!!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 02:54 PM
Thank you!!

OneEleven I do feel refreshed, which is so fantastic!! I may need that new found energy.

I love that it is even coming across the net. Too cool!!

Thank you SIAS! I think that is the part that I am most excited about, the working on me...for probably the first time ever.

During our conversation, H was trying to say "we need to keep it even, you went away so I get one now" It was bizarre. I said "i've not stopped you from doing anything you want to do, go right ahead"

He is angry that I am getting together with some friends from the workshop this weekend and actually counted that as "going away". We are having brunch for a few hours on Sunday.

Even as I am typing this, I am shaking my head. Bizarre.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 04:07 PM
Autumn...

You are doing amazing.

You are being you for you, and leading your family right now.

Your boys have a superb role model!
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 04:23 PM
It is disappointing when these types of workshops need to be described as non-cult, yet that is often a misconception.

EE and the one that I attend is no more a cult than that famous "motivational speaker" that pretty much everyone in the world has heard about. Or like saying that MC is cult like... grin

Anyhow, no big deal but did want to say that. Everyone gets to make up their mind and unfortunately, like your experience @bug... not all organizations are so benign...

Glad you had a great experience, AL! Do you end with any bold, personal declarations?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 05:31 PM
Thank you MF!!

I understand what you are saying KD. I feel guilty qualifying with that, but more than a few people in my group were nervous about just that, so it sadly does need the qualifier sometimes. But I agree, that is disappointing.

Yes we did actually end with a bold, personal declaration. I am very proud of mine and have it on my fridge, in my office, in my wallet...as a reminder. I am very proud of mine and it took a few revisions to get it to where it is. It is my commitment to myself smile

It's clear that you are very familiar with this type of experience, workshop. smile
Posted By: ~ kd ~ Re: Feeling like I am changing - 01/31/12 05:56 PM
lol... Yes... I am VERY familiar with this type of exp/workshops... grin 15 years experienced... lol!

Staffed an advanced last May and plan to immerse into a next one either April or October this year. Time to adjust my paradigm, again... cool

Be proud of yourself and proud of your declaration! You deserve it! You ARE worthy!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 03:53 AM
Autumn,

I will be out of contact/town for a bit but wanted to say that I think my h MAY have wondered if He was an issue before I went to EE. But he wasn't. I was 29 y/o and happy in the m but lacked clarity and became a new mom/lawyer the same month, was struggling with that, realizing my dad/alcoholic stuff, ETC

so there was all that baggage that kept affecting my choices or pushing buttons. I got rid of those buttons which was NICE...and after awhile

H chose to go himself. I sooo hope your h will.

it wasmuch faster than MC for us-when we finally went, b/c we'd make breakthroughs and then have to go back to work or get the kids...

and start all over the next week. Besides, there is so much more in our lives than our m's only. Yet that ends up getting all the focus but when we free ourselves to GAL for real

and when we see ourselves in the best light and become that version--dang powerful--HAPPY--

So the value of it lies in the changes your h sees in you and how you react to him. Keep up the new ways.

He may see it as selfish at first--my brothers did when I refused to get into debates BETWEEN my parents. (Almost choreographed arguments that they had for DECADES..."no thanks, been there, done that. Would like to live MY life now" etc)
AND
Not MY sandbox!

Geez, talk about detachment!
That confused my brothers and bugged them but it freed ME.

Autumn- in closing, here is my free bossy advice for you---which you are free to ignore-- cool


Make those follow up support meets, a priority.
And I'll call eric next week when I get back.

Okay brave one! ttys

((( )))
Posted By: tested metal Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 04:07 AM
Curious, what does EE mean?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 02:46 PM
Thank you 25, you are so right. There is so much more than just M. I was thankful to have a chance to focus on other things, old things, new things.

I do plan on attending all of the support meetings, I'm actually looking forward to them. We haven't been assigned yet, but hopefully next week.

Have a fantastic trip, and looking forward to talking with you soon.

TM, EE is a workshop in Philadelphia. The full name is Essential Experience, you can google it to see what its about. I recently went through it and 25 did it a few years ago. Fantastic program!
Posted By: purgatory Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 02:49 PM
25 encouraged me to go through the workshop... I'm saving up for the one in April!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 02:53 PM
This makes me so happy purgatory!! I am so excited for you!! I know that you will be so glad you did. It really is life changing for so many. In fact I have yet to meet anyone who didn't use similar words.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 04:19 PM
Journal

The past few days have been somewhat quiet since the talk the other day re: MC. Last night H asked me to watch a movie and we were on the couch. S15 and S17 were in the kitchen with H as we were getting ready to start the movie.

S15 made a very inappropriate chauvinistic joke and as he said the punchline, I made a comment to him about how awful that was and was about to state that my feelings were hurt.

At this point H was sitting next to me and completely lost it on S15, who proceeded to shut him out. H called S15 a nasty name, and after apologized. It was out of line and inappropriate. H couldn't shake it, and got up to apologize again.

I know that I should leave it between them but I was really worried about S15. I went to the back of the house and told him that it was wrong and the reason was because it hurt my feelings so much. S15 apologized to me for hurting my feelings.

Later in the evening, after the movie, I got up to go to the kitchen. When I came back, H was fiddling with his phone and I asked (i know) what he was doing. He said he was wiping it off, there was something on it. I may have made a face, because he then shoved it under my face and said "look at it, go ahead look at it" I said that I didn't want to or need to.

He then said "you are right, we need MC and I shouldn't have put it off for this long"

He then proceeded to say "you are the one always on your phone"

I guess in recent times that may be true, when he wasn't talking to me or acknowledging my presence in the room, I was on my phone. Many times I was on this site, just trying to get a grip.

He was getting heated, so I ended the conversation and went to my bedroom. He stayed on the couch.

When I went to get a glass of water, he hugged me and said "i really do love you and I really want our M"

...where is the brake on this thing???

I am looking for a MC today, trying very hard to find one solution based that is also in my network. Most of them are out of network it seems.
Posted By: Rick1963 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 04:24 PM
Autum call the ones in network and ask if the are solution oriented. if not ask if they are willing to. my2cs
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 04:30 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves

I know that I should leave it between them but I was really worried about S15. I went to the back of the house and told him that it was wrong and the reason was because it hurt my feelings so much. S15 apologized to me for hurting my feelings.



Just to clarify, I meant that I told S15 that what H said to him was wrong. He had no right to call him the name that he called him. He tends to lash out when angry, He has done it with me and both S's. I felt I needed S15 to hear that it was inappropriate.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 06:20 PM
Autumn...

I feel like I could have been reading parts of my history...

But...

I'd like you to deliver a message to H...

He'd better put a really, good honest effort in to this M... Because, as my xH can tell you, especially now...

IT WOULD HAVE BEEN CHEAPER TO KEEP HER!

(Okay, that was meant for a laugh... But, sadly true this week!)
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 06:23 PM
Seriously, WTG in how you're dealing w/your sons.

I never stood up to my Mr. Explosive, until I was "done". I have to tell you... He didn't know what to do with it! The big bully!

Keep making sure your boys know what are appropriate boundaries, actions, and MAN-like behavior, even if Dad's not living it.

Also, don't be too offended by their jokes. They (including my S15 in this), but they act old, and like they know everything, but they really don't fully understand. And, if they do, then they deserve a good tongue lashing from Mom!
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/02/12 07:21 PM
LOL I knew where you were coming from MF, it is funny and true.

I agree with you about the boys, this one was particularly offensive. But thankfully after talking to both of them privately, they don't really think that way. It was a tasteless joke that he regrets now that he knows my feelings were hurt.

For the most part I let it roll off, roll my eyes and move on.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 03:23 PM
Autumn...

I'm off to sunny San Diego tonight, for the weekend! Love that! I'm in Illinois, btw... What a great change of scenery!

I'm actually working. I hate trade shows, but I always volunteer for this one, as it is usually in Palm Springs in January... This year, San Diego in February! Not bad... Not bad... Plus, I get to leave on Monday, when the work really begins, as my S15's bball team starts Sectionals! YAY!

Anyways, have a really good weekend... And, keep the goodness flowing!

How's the search for a MC?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 03:53 PM
MF have a wonderful trip!! That sounds perfect. Good time to get out of the cold and have a nice warm weekend. I work a few trade shows a year but never in a great place like San Diego. Go you!!

I have a weekend full of basketball games, 6 by Monday. Yikes! I am looking forward to it though.

Have a great weekend. I hope to have a MC by early next week. Nothing yet. I am taking Rick's advice and just calling the number on my card, starting from there.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 06:10 PM
Made some wonderful plans with some girlfriends for tomorrow. Heading out to lunch and some window shopping, most importantly spending time together.

On Sunday I was supposed to have my reunion for the workshop I did last weekend, but I won't be able to attend. My father, his wife and my youngest brother are coming to town to see S15's basketball game. It is the first time they will be visiting in 8 years and I need to be there, so I cancelled my reunion. I am glad they are coming.

It will be a nice mixture of friends and family this weekend.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 08:15 PM
OK so it is very possible that I am just interacting too much, and I really do want feedback from Vets if possible.

I don't know what to do when H flips the script on me. I get sucked in and feel like I need to explain or apologize. I drive myself nuts. It is possible I just need to stop talking and walk away.

So an example of what I am talking about is, H has been making plans for work trips. This is a new project but he is so excited to travel. It always bothered him if people would ask him about my job or work travel, he would shut down (never noticed this til recently

So he is making these plans and travels with his boss (male). When I was commenting on a conference with a work colleague via Facebook, he came home irate. All I said to the colleague was "I'd love to hear more about it" and he literally went off o me for a while.

He proceeded to say that its not "equal"..um ok??? and now he is due to go on another one. I proceeded to explain that i was only asking for information, and found it odd that he was watching my facebook like that.

The conversation was way too long and too destructive, and I told him that it was extremely juvenile.

Shocking that we need MC isn't it? Our communication skills are stellar.

Walking away may be best in a situation such as this, don't you think? I don't think he would be any more p!ssed than he already was.
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 08:36 PM
Ugh I re-read it and see it for what it is...utterly ridiculous. Answer is right in front of me...
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 09:10 PM
Autumn,
You are making great progress.
I'm no vet.. but here are a few questions to get some thoughts flowing.

Why do you feel the need to apologize and explain all the time?

What do you feel would happen if you walked away from a destructive conversation?

What do you feel would happen if in the midst of seeing the conversation escalate, you call attention to it?

Do you fear "pissing" him off even more?
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/03/12 09:58 PM
I agree with Valeska.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/06/12 04:47 PM
Val and LABug are making some clear points
but you already know the answer, as you "know"...

I'm bummed you missed the reunion -so important to keep it going and not fall back into the "world" and old dynamics. But I know you had your family reasons.

Maybe your h will go "for communication" purposes...or maybe you can find a mc through EE. There are a ton of therapists who attended when I went.


Anyhow I love seeing your changes or that you notice the unhealthy dynamics faster now. I had a few of those after I returned and if it weren't for the follow up I might not have known how to keep working my own personal contract.


Anyhow, good to seeing doing your work.

(((( ))))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/06/12 08:45 PM
Thanks Val, Labug and 25!

Yes till now I have been afraid of making him angrier or escalating. He would also use my words against me or twist the argument until I was confused. I do know that walking away from it is best. I think having a plan is absolutely best. Knowing how I will handle it in advance may be a good idea for me.

You and I are on the same track, 25. I was planning to see if I can find a MC through EE. I thought Eric may have a suggestion.
I agree, learning how to communicate is a good enough reason and I think he will be good with that.

I've been in daily contact with the group, both team and participants, which really helps me. There are a few upcoming activities that I will attend too.

I absolutely can see things much differently now, which in itself is a blessing.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/07/12 10:36 PM
Autumn...

So, what is the dynamic w/the work travel attitude...?

Is he jealous of your success?

Or, is this more of a tug of war over who can get away more? (coming from him)

That's odd.

Shouldn't he be proud that you have occasion to go away, and do something different, more successful, etc...?

It's not like your boys are super young, and hard...

Weird.

If you find he's reading so closely on your fb, tell him that you're flattered he's so darn interested in your every movement and word!

(Aren't I helpful? LoL)
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/21/12 02:38 PM
Hey, Autumn, what's up?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/23/12 05:31 PM
I realized that its been a while since I've been here and thought I should check in and see how everyone is doing.

I've been busy, mostly just GAL which I have really been enjoying. I have a new found bounce in my step, and really believe it comes from the workshop. I have learned so much and continue daily. I feel so wonderful and really am nicer to myself (may sound simple but its true)

H has noticed a huge difference and has mentioned it regularly. After I talk to someone from EE or come back from a gathering, he says "you seem so happy". He said "I can tell that this is good for you and I am really glad you are doing it"

We have been getting along, but my focus has really been on my growth and boundaries. I haven't lost that but it is nice to get along too.

Last week he mentioned that he feels different and thinks that it is due to my changes, he is getting something out of my changes as well. He said that he is tired of being angry all of the time and won't waste any more time being angry.

I am still going to counseling weekly and getting a lot out of it. MC is still on the table but we haven't scheduled it yet. I think it is important, and necessary if we plan to do this right.

So I am hopeful that things seem to be headed in the right direction.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Feeling like I am changing - 02/23/12 05:45 PM
"the value of the workshop lies in the changes others see in You

AND how your life improves, gaining clarity and intent..."

that was what the late Laura Bowles said at my workshop & I still recall those words. I love those words. And my changes were what got my h to go and triggere changes in HIM and our m....

grin
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 08:54 PM
It's been a while since I've been here and honestly I don't know where to start.

I've been doing my work and things have been good for the most part. He compliments me on my work, and weight loss. We communicate better than ever or so I thought.

I feel like I just got hit by a truck. I just got some information that knocked me on my rear. I don't know if he has done anything just yet but some very ugly information was just dropped in my lap. He is trying to start something up with someone, and I saw the written proof. It was disgusting. This is just days after our anniversary getaway that he planned.

I don't understand how someone can lie straight to my face like that and be convincing.

I am such an idiot.

I don't know what to do just yet. We have a family wedding tomorrow night and the kids are coming. I have to figure out my next steps. I think a call to a lawyer on Monday to find our my rights is in my cards.

Please be gentle with the 2x4, I am really in a fragile state at the moment. I can't stop shaking and feel like I am going to be sick.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 09:01 PM
Oh Autumn, I'm so sorry.

Repeat after me, I am not an idiot!

You were acting in good faith, someone else wasn't. Do what you have to do to get through today.

(((Autumn)))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 09:06 PM
Thank you labug, that means a lot. I can't seem to stop crying. I really hate that he is doing this to my family. I don't think I can ever trust him again, which means the end for us. Fool me once, shame on you..fool me twice..

I am trying to stay strong and keep it together when the kids get home.

This is going to be a tough road...again
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 09:09 PM
But you are stronger now. Use the skills you have learned to focus on you and your kids. Gain strength from wherever you can.
Posted By: Grmpy_Mnky Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 09:38 PM
I don't understand how someone can lie straight to my face like that and be convincing.

I am such an idiot.


So not true! You love the guy. Based on all the information and interaction you had, you made the right choices. Now things are changing. Keep going and keep doing things for you. Its going to be alright - but you already know this.. wink
Posted By: Cadet Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 09:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves

Please be gentle with the 2x4, I am really in a fragile state at the moment. I can't stop shaking and feel like I am going to be sick.

What you are feeling is perfectly normal for getting hit by a truck.

The best thing to do is to get out of the road, dragging yourself along the pavement, so no more trucks can hit you.

Sorry this is hard stuff.
I wish I had a way to make it better.
But the best I can offer is a ((((HUG)))).

Please be gentle to yourself and just work on simple things to take care of yourself.

Eat , Sleep and breathe.

The rest you can put off for another day.

OK?
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 10:01 PM
Autumn,

I'm so sorry . . . I was afraid of this. Try not to make ANY decisions (and CERTAINLY no ultimatums, one way or another!) this weekend. It's going to be difficult, but do you think you can fake it until you've had a chance to do some decision-making?

Try to hang in there. It sounds stupid, but MAKE SURE YOU EAT (you won't want to). Breathe. Go out with a friend. And, if you're so inclined . . . PRAY.

It all helps.

I'm sorry.


Starsky
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 10:32 PM
AL,

If trying to save your M and build trust with your H make you an idiot, then this whole forum is full of idiots.

This will be a hard weekend for certain. Don't make any decisions based on emotion.

Get some exercise along with a healthy diet.

Eat, pray and (self) love for now.

hugs
gr8
Posted By: Fergie Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 10:37 PM
Autumn,

I really need to go back and read your situation, but I know Mindfull has been giving you some advice.

Just know many of us have been where you are now, and we survived, if not thrived once past the lowest of the low.

She has been in a very similar situation, so her advice is sound.

Just know that this isn't the end. This will pass.

Hang in there.

Fergie
Posted By: mishka422 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/09/12 10:44 PM
Peace and hugs to you. I have nothing more in the way of advice to offer than anyone just gave you. I will suggest that you do as everyone said and pull yourself through this weekend. Give yourself time to absorb the shock and think before you act.
Posted By: Dr LOve Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/10/12 12:52 AM
Autumn,

It has been a loooooooooooooooog time since I visited this board. But someone said I should come here and look ya up.

If I still have a thread here I was/ am Dr. Love...
You are NOT an Idiot. Trust is hard to come by.
I don't know your whole sitch, was there an Affair?
"I don't know if he has done anything just yet but some very ugly information was just dropped in my lap. He is trying to start something up with someone, and I saw the written proof."

Are you sure of this information?
Posted By: nhmom Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/10/12 02:07 AM
Autumn -

So sorry you're getting hit with the new information. You didn't mention where you got it.

You are NOT an idiot! The way the WAS can do things and and lie straight to our faces is amazing.

Please take good care of yourself! Sleep on it, calm down, and then you can re-group and think about the next steps you'd like to take.

(((Autumn)))
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/10/12 03:03 AM
Autumn.

I'm so glad you reached out today on the alt.

We'll be in touch tomorrow.

I really hope you can hold it together this weekend. You'd be wise to not let H know what you've uncovered.

You need a plan. And, not one driven by your emotions from shock/hurt. Easy for me/us to say... Huh? During a wedding? Ugh.

Thinking of you.

You have some of the best of the best here to support you and guide...

Starsky. Gr8. And.... Of course, Ferg...!
Posted By: Valeska19 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/10/12 05:11 AM
(((Autumn)))

I echo what everyone else is saying.

We can have all the proof in the world sometimes and yet when we our WAS hurts us.. we are shocked at their lack of respect or love for us....

.... we cannot ever imagine that they would hurt us that way.

But they do and yes.. you will survive. The kind of wound created today was very deep for you.. one that will take awhile to heal....

...but it will.

And I really want to emphasize not acting on your feelings. When I found out in July about my w dating already.. I thought... "she could not hurt me anymore than this".....

...but in this year.. I have realized that although that action hurt like he!!.. it didn't compare to the lack of respect she shows me.

In the moment.. in July... I thought it was a deal breaker.. but now..after many months of personal growth and reflection.. I have learned what my deal breakers really are.

You will too.

(((( ))))
Posted By: mindfull Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/11/12 01:30 PM
Autumn? smile
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/11/12 02:15 PM
What's going on over there, Autumn? Hoping you're okay.


Starsky
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/11/12 02:52 PM
AL.
How this going for you:
Quote:
1. To be less fearful-change happens and I need to learn how to roll with it and grow from it. I need to stop getting trapped in my own fear.

2. Challenge myself - I want to do things that I have previously held myself back from (for various reasons). If I have the chance to try something new or something I've always wanted to do, I will make an attempt to do it.

3. Meeting new people - we have so many friends in common, and I feel like I need to enjoy a group of friends that are not common friends. Maybe join a class of some type?


I have gone back and read the past 10 pages and noticed each time YOU pulled away, He chased you.
Posted By: gr8 day 2B alive Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/11/12 02:53 PM
How can you use this information to benefit you?
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 01:49 PM
Thank you all. I am doing my best to comprehend what you are writing, and I know I will need to re-read the posts again. I just want you to know how much it helps to not feel so alone when I really feel alone in this home.

The weekend was rough to say the least. I confronted him on Friday night, only because he kept asking me what was wrong. I told him what I knew and he didn't deny it. He admitted it. He swears that it was only an EA and not a PA. I obviously don't believe him. I told him this, and he said I don't blame you.

We had a family wedding to attend on Saturday night. I did my best to have fun, but I cried through the vows silently. It was so hard to hear the promises that were all just broken in my marriage. He put his hand on my knee of few times when he saw me crying but I didn't react.

He has apologized and cried, he said he needs help and that he doesn't know what would posess him to do this to me. He said I don't deserve this treatment and that he knows that I don't believe him but he does love me. I didn't respond to any of it. He feels shame and remorse, and said that he doesn't deserve me and that he never has deserved me.

I am going to stay with my father for a few days, to get a breather. I just need to be out of this house. I need to try to quiet the noise in my head.

I promise to come back and re-read everything here because you are a wonderful sounding board. There is nobody in my day to day that I can trust with this information right now. I am calling a therapist today to set up a meeting. He claims that he is too, but I am only focusing on me and the kids right now.

He told me this morning that he deserves whatever the outcome may be. Not sure what that means. It was one of the last things he said before I am leaving for a few days.
Posted By: cat04 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 01:59 PM
Autumn,

Don't feel badly about needing time for you.

You did well this weekend and you will be ok no matter what.

Take this time to figure out what you want, what you would need to see from him (ie him actually calling the counselor and going, ending the A, etc...) to try to work on things.

As far as his comment, he is expressing the guilt that he feels inside. I like that he acknowledges that this is his problem instead of putting all of the blame onto you, but please don't take it too personally if that changes for a while.

(((hugs)))
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:04 PM
Thank you cat! I think that is what this is about for me, trying to figure out what I need and how I will proceed. He doesn't get to make that call for me any longer. I have some serious thinking/praying to do.

Thankfully with this nice weather, my kids think I am just taking a photo outing at the beach. Partially true, and I will have the photos to share with them. I feel the need to hold them closer than ever.

I know that I need to figure out my next steps, what I want, etc. I am just so darn scared today. I feel very alone and change will be tough. But change will happen here, one way or another. I guess I should be excited for that. Hopefully I will feel it sooner rather than later.

Thanks again to all of you. I feel just a little less alone thanks to you all
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:07 PM
Autumn,

If he truly is sincere and remorseful (I'm pretty sure he's SORRY, but still hard to tell from this end whether or not he's just sorry HE GOT CAUGHT, sorry HE HURT YOU, or sorry that he DID THE WRONG THING AND IS WILLING TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT -- three distinctly different things), then he should be willing to send the woman a no-contact letter, and enter into full transparency with you and go to a good MC/FT who specializes in infidelity.

Is he?

Use this time away to think about what YOUR hard boundaries -- your short list of "Boundaries of Personal Integrity" -- are. They might be something like:

1. Absolutely end all contact with OW, including sending her a no-contact letter, the copy of which is to be approved by YOU and the letter is to be mailed/delivered by you.

2. Full and complete transparency with you, including new cellphone # for him and detailed billing to come to YOU, new e-mail address(es) with YOU having copies of the passwords, exchange daily schedules, etc., etc.

3. Full-panel STD test, a copy of which is to be provided to YOU. (I'm sorry, I know this is intensely painful, but it's highly likely that he's lying about the "only and EA" thing. Most cheaters will cop to one level LESS than what they've done, from what I've seen. Besides, your own medical health is the utmost importance here).

4. Perhaps a Retrouvaille weekend, followed by ongoing MC/FT with a counselor specifically trained to deal with infidelity.

These are just suggestions; the items need to be YOURS and reflect your own values and morals.

In the meantime, I would advise you to ignore your husband's calls and texts, other than ONE time saying "I need some time to think, get some counsel from some people I trust, and to make some decisions. I'm not sure what I'm going to do."

and then go DARK. If he is sincere about his remorse, he will continue to purusue you. If he's NOT sincere . . . well, then you'll have your answer.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:15 PM
Morning Starsky!! I agree with you, that it is difficult to know which reason he is sorry. I asked him if he meant "sorry you were caught" and he said "I am sorry I did this to you, to hurt you like this. But I can understand why you don't believe me"

I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth right now.

Your suggestions are all good ones, and I think I will have the time to really reflect while at my fathers. I am leaving right after work today and plan to work remotely from there a little bit, but also have some down time to recuperate a bit.

I do plan to go DARK while at my fathers. I can call each of my boys on their own cell phones, never a need to call the house at all.

I would imagine he expects it becuase he said "call if you want to talk anytime, I would love to hear from you but will understand if you don't call at all"
Posted By: nhmom Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:30 PM
Autumn -

Glad you made it through the weekend. The wedding must have been very difficult to sit through, especially the vows part. Sometimes I feel that it's so hard to be happy for someone when you're not doing well yourself.

There is a German proverb that is similar to: "A fault confessed is half redressed."

You're a few steps ahead than many people on this board in that he's not blaming YOU, he's admitting to his wrongdoing, and he's showing signs of remorse. He says that he needs help, but what is he going to do about? Actions speak louder than words. I think you should consider Starsy's suggestions above.

Hang in there, Autumn. You're not alone.
Posted By: labug Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:40 PM
Glad you're getting away.

Long walks along the shore and enjoying the beauty of things that are permanent, the ocean, the shore, the birds, I think are always helpful in putting out issues in perspective.

Have you ever read A Year by the Sea? Might not be the right thing for this trip but sometime later you might appreciate it.

Take care.
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:41 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves


I don't believe anything that comes out of his mouth right now.


This ^ is wise.

It won't always be this way, but for now . . . this is wise.


Starsky
Posted By: Autumn Leaves Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:46 PM
It is what is keeping me sane Starksy smile

I am bringing my laptop with me, so I will be checking in here for sure.

Thanks labug, I haven't read that and will have to look for it soon. I am taking a book with me in case I can't sleep well, don't want to keep anyone else up smile Just something light and upbeat.

I just talked to my insurance provider and narrowing down a doctor. Will make an appt today and get the authorization I need ASAP. Time to take my life back!!
Posted By: Starsky309 Re: Feeling like I am changing - 03/12/12 02:48 PM
Originally Posted By: Autumn Leaves


I do plan to go DARK while at my fathers. I can call each of my boys on their own cell phones, never a need to call the house at all.


I would suggest proactively sending him a short e-mail stating what I said above, almost word-for-word. It lets him know that you are seeking advice, and "not sure what you're going to do," and the wording is designed to throw him off-center.

You should also ask him to respect your privacy at this time, and NOT badger him, and since you've set up a way for the boys to be able to reach you, there should be no reason for him to.

Short, business-like, civil. Don't convey "wounded" or "hurt" or -- god forbid -- anything mushy.

In my opinion, he needs to begin to feel that he may have lost you.


Starsky
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