as the title says, im not perfect. most threads i read on here are of all the wrongs the other spouse does to the one posting... well ive gone and flipped it around, i have not been a good husband to my wife, and i want to change and keep her from leaving me.
a few highlights of her and i, going to be as honest and not biased as i can, yes i am looking for support, but also want brutal honest in what might work to keep my marriage from going bye bye.
feb 2010 the 14th... wife and i have a physical incident, im 4 months into my DV classes and they have revealed me to be someone who was isolated, jealous, controlling and mean. while this is a big deal, specially more so i feel cause of the mental abuse, i have asked for forgiveness and gotten it from my wife for this incident. so im really adding it hear cause of the controlling nature and habits i still need to kick to the curb.
mar 17th 2010 - wife says she can no longer be married to me, asks for divorce, i fight for her, but limited by a protection order. not making excuses i didnt fight for her the right way at all, basically just threatened her with kids (we have 3) and money and house, still all forms of control to get her to HAVE to stay with me.
may 2010 - i have found and am dating another person now, treating her the way i should have treated my wife, going out more, not being such a computer gaming geek, more respect less jealousy from me... better.
aug 2010 - other girl and i break up. (she hung up on me one day and that was that would not talk to me again) she will be back later on...
oct 2010 wife and i have a conversation very deep, she is breaking down basically saying she cant believe its over, and that it should have been a forever thing, we start dating. not just get to know each other, but jump back in full ML and everything. however PO scares me to never leaving her house or mine, so basically it just sort of becomes a physical relationship... still not able to show her much change from what i learned from ex gf.
@@@@ sorry if im skipping some of the past stuff that might seem big, it probably is but its a bit more in the past@@@
Jan 2011 - relationship not going well, fell back into controlling habits (texting too much, trying to tell her who she can talk to and see and what not) snooped phone records... she is texting a guy 8-12 hours a day, all day. i am freaking out more at this point, trying to beg and plead with her to work on us and drop him.
Jan 2011 26th - dropping kids off, he is at the house, i melt down, crying, begging, pleading for her not to leave me, cops get called by him, PO still in place, jail i go again. she doesnt say its over at this point but, obviously its damn close.
jan 2011 27th thru feb 7th - scared to go to jail again, treat each other coldly, not much contact at all, when there is its with a 3rd party.
feb 2011 12th or so - she is now in a relationship with this other person, basically i pushed her right into it by being jealous and controlling all over again.
march 2011 - find out she is pregnant from new bf and he is now living in the house with her... i move on myself and am now dating girl from last summer.
may 2011 2nd - this is the meat... i had been dumped my gf a week prior, and wife is having issues with bf as well, during exchanges leading up to this date we had kind of lingered a bit more, talking a bit more each time, she said something like, 'before its too late' based on the fact that for over a year neither of us have filed, or did anything really about divorce, and i have started DV classes and found out just how messed up i had been acting pretty much my whole life, i have a very open and honest discussion about me being controlling and the incident from a year ago, and well, the big bomb for her, multiple AFFAIRS on my side. i didnt have to tell her, no one would have ever known, but i thought to really give this marriage a chance i had to be open and honest about it all. she figures something like that happened, but never knew, she basically feels stupid now that our whole relationship was a sham. its a good discussion, she kicks bf out and we have agreed to work on our marriage to see why neither of us have filed and to make sure we want to be done with each other.
May 4th til now ish -
-lost house to forclosure, tried to keep 2 house for as long as i could but she only had part time job of like 15 hours a week. no excuses though, i did let it go more when he moved in to my house i was paying for but not living in.
-po gets modified so i can see wife anytime June 2nd, her ex calls cops on us same day. didnt go to jail...
- no physical contact this time round. hold hands at one point but thats gone again.
- she stopped saying i love you about mid june
- lot of stress packing and her not having a place to move too, i have a 3 kids and renting 4 bedroom house. at first this is the option but we cant build on anything to have her feel comfortable moving in with me.
- baby daddy helps her almost every day pack and move. causes lots of fight as basically she wants him round and not me to help.
**** main reason she doesnt want to be around me... i cant drop the rope... every day i discuss relationship with her, basically trying to control her again and wear her down to jump back in and work on things again with me.
- we have a few dates, they go well, but i end up talking R again and ruining any good vibes or progress.
- no one she knows, or i know think we should be together. people on my side think she is not giving me anything to work with, people are her side, well you saw about pick any reason or several.
&&&&
ok sorry i feel all over the place and like im leaving so much out. so here is where this is currently... she watches kids at my house, then goes elsewhere to sleep, comes back in the morning. she feels like she can see this great person im trying to be, and have been with gf from the summer, but i dont show it to her. she is still not sure she can get past affairs i have had, and for summer GF living her life.
last week, i finally get that im pushing her away by always talking R, yes i read the books several times, but the thought of losing her and all the stuff i know im not supposed to do, i do.
we argued sat night i come home from work, oldest kid has been throwing a fit for last 4 hours, wife is stressed and just done, i pick up her frustration and stress right away, i help get oldest calmed down, but almost accuse her of not letting me help her by begging her what i should be doing to help her de-stress. oldest throws another fit when punishment is doled out, prevents her from leaving for a bit longer, i take that time to fight a little more with her about not wanting to see me on her days off when she made time to see baby daddy twice while i was working. basically i turned her anger from our son to me.
-sunday she spend all day sleeping, we text a little, i tell her im stuck a bit, she ignores it most of the day. we start talking about what my issue is that night be she falls asleep. issue i was having was feeling unloved, and not even liked. she will spend time with someone she is not trying to save a marriage with but not me.
- monday smaller fight, she does say sorry for falling asleep. fight about baby daddy again, and she tells me again that her and i are not in a relationship. that we cant even get along without fighting. she again brings up the fact that i was some great guy with summer GF. i try to tell her that i dont feel wanted by my wife, and that makes all the difference.
tues thru today go pretty well. no fights, trying to drop the rope, she wants to go out Sat night with her brother, but needs to leave tonight as soon as i get home so she can sleep. hard to not be a little upset but didnt show it yet.
the gist of why im here... i have read a lot of stories, and while my situation is me basically being the big time bad guy, i have changed and want to continue to change for the better and be the husband she deserves or the next person... i want to change for me, i dont want to be a controlling jerk and more, i dont want to disrespect her and walk all over her needs and wants. to be open to her so she can hurt me, not be controlling so i dont get hurt.
i know i have done her a lot of wrongs, i just need support as best it can be given to stay on a path for changes in myself so that i can hopefully save my marriage. she seems like she wants it to work, i know it will take WAY more time than i want to fix it, just hard doing it alone, since no one i talk to supports me. (a goal of mine is to find better friends and support)
my goals... STOP discussing R.
STOP asking/talking/anything about baby daddy.
STOP smothering her and let her have time to think things thru
work on myself, being happy without her.
being happy with my kids
that was probably clear as mud... and so much info not too big on some details im sure...
sorry!
I'm sorry if this is a stupid question, but what does DV mean?
Welcome to the group. You certainly have been through a lot and I am sure it took a lot of guts to post your story and be as honest about it as you are. That's the thing though, if you know what the problem is, then you can fix it.
The first thing I would suggest besides counseling, is anger management. From one control freak to another, I know how hard that behavior is to stop, but you have to.
You can only control yourself, your actions, and your decisions. Trying to control a situation you can't is exhausting, isn't it?
It takes 2 to make a marriage work, and while it is good that you acknowledge your part in this, don't take all the blame.
Your W having a child by another man would be very hard to deal with emotionally. I can understand your struggle there. I hope you don't take it out on the child, (s)he is innocent in all of this.
Keep posting, I know you'll find some great advice.
let me re-cap...and get a helmet on b/c you're going to get what we call a 2x4 to wake you up.
I see it this way--
You had no boundaries with your w. You criticized & belittled her and cheated on her, were incredibly controlling and manipulative and dishonest with her.
Lots of great husband behavior here...
She was hurt and angry and used the few tools she had, to fight back. You had no tools for handling negative feedback so you freaked.
You hit her. For MANY women, like most, that would end it for good. Period. NO discussion. That's it...for me, that's the truth.
.....You were forced to attend DV class (probably would not have gone on your own??) There, you realized you were an admitted "controlling jerk".
But you love your w. You want more for your life and more of yourself.
But You date OW...You change nothing in your dynamic with your w.
Um...okay...no inconsistency there...
OW breaks up with you. We don't know why b/c you don't say.
You renew your interest in your w. (Shocker).
You or both of you, blow it again. This is b/c you repeat the same old same old, somehow thinking "THIS TIME" it'll be different.
Somehow, You learn or you use zero conflict resolution skills.
You have learned Nothing about filtering your words, calming yourself down
or not being a controlling nut...and so, you repeat your mistakes.
You push & push no matter what your w tells you. She says not to bring up R talk. You do it anyhow.
She says she wants space. You refuse to give it to her.
You don't control your own behavior.
You change partners, but you don't change YOU.
Of course it's easier to be nicer to gf, (and make the w jealous?? It proves nothing b/c everyone knows it is easier to START fresh...just won't last b/c it won't always be fresh...
you don't have the history or shame or issues with OW...yet...(but trust me, you will) Why do I say that?
B/c YOU have not changed YOU.
And History repeats itself.
I think it was Einstein who said "The definition of insanity is doing the same behavior, but expecting a different result."
We humans do that often...til we've hurt ourselves and our loved ones enough to actually CHANGE...but we can change.
Something in you wants and expects more of yourself...so
Then you posted this at the end of your thread...
i know i have done her a lot of wrongs, i just need support as best it can be given to stay on a path for changes in myself so that i can hopefully save my marriage. (SAVE YOURSELF FIRST, MARRIAGE SECOND..YOU CANNOT DO THE LATTER WITHOUT DOING THE FORMER.)
she seems like she wants it to work, i know it will take WAY more time than i want to fix it, just hard doing it alone, since no one i talk to supports me. (a goal of mine is to find better friends and support)
WE ALL NEED THIS^^^. SOMETIMES THIS SITE IS THE ONLY PLACE TO GET IT...
my goals... STOP discussing R.
STOP asking/talking/anything about baby daddy.
STOP smothering her and let her have time to think things thru
work on myself, being happy without her.
being happy with my kids
that was probably clear as mud... and so much info not too big on some details im sure...
sorry!
Alrighty....
I realize Having a baby in the house, of another man is a tough pill to swallow, though you seem fair enough to realize it's not as if she cheated on you, or had an affair exactly.
It simply resulted from the natural behavior of a dating single woman.
It's unfortunate for the baby if he/she feels unwelcome in your w's life or in yours if you are with your w.
Is this something you can see handling? I mean, do you KNOW you won't take it out on the child down the road?
If you don't KNOW this, get more help and don't bother with your w til you do.
[b]
The child's welfare is more important than your hurt feelings.
Do you agree with that^^ statement? Do you know what I mean??
Honestly, some of your posts are surprisingly immature for a man.
The justification of the multiple affairs is astounding...you didn't feel special or loved enough?
You sound so insecure and ironically, YOU were the biggest problem in your m, not her.
I can't recall any of my high school boyfriends behaving this way...no ffenses but you don't seem to get how OUT of the bell curve of normal behavior, your behavior is. So I'm sorry but tbh, I didn't date guys with so little self control. For a man, a father of 3 to behave this way & for this long...you have to change my man.
[/b]
You are lucky your if your w will even give you a chance. Don't blow it.
I think you need to work on YOU and you alone (with some space). Get out of the house or apartment, get some real help.
Do not move in together any time soon. Forget OW. She is a bandaid that prevents you from looking at yourself & fixing you.
Be available to your w as needed WHEN and ONLY WHEN you have some tools you presently lack AND if & when she asks.
I mean, don't show up if you don't have it in you to actually help or manage.
Are you the type of guy who MUST have a woman with him at all times?? How needy are you?
(I'm guessing pretty darn needy.)
You have no control over your w so don't fight a losing battle pretending you do...
and get some basic conflict resolution skills, and anger management too.
Women are attracted to strong men. Strong men are in control of themselves, not others.
Your DV c may be able to refer you to someone who can help with this concept.
Your anger is a HUGE issue today...not just yesterday or long ago (most people don't think of things less than 3 years ago as long)
Your anger caused you to lose the house, (being punitive/not paying the bills b/c of baby daddy being there was cutting your nose to spite your face).
and
your anger is why you hit your w in the first place.
Your anger has been your master.
You have been its' dog. Do you want to be your anger's beyotch?
It got you where you are today. So Master your anger.
Sounds great in theory.
SO...what are you going to DO (not say or wish, but DO)
to achieve your goals?
In one of your previous threads, you were asked if your W was ever abusive to you, physically, verbally, etc...
And you didn't answer...
The only person that you can change is YOU...
but it does not help if your W is emotionally volatile...
Before anything positive can happen, the cycle MUST stop... and YOU need to be the one to stop it.
You talk about the PO a few times and not wanting to go back to jail.
If you are concerned that could happen... either by some new 'incident' or simply as a false claim... then you may want to remove yourself from a possible volatile situation and really figure stuff out for you, before attempting to work on the M.
just my $0.07
My wife is not abusive, i know all i can change is myself.
the PO is gone for the most part, so there is no worries of it happening again.
the baby is innocent, and i see it as something she did when we were not together, just like if i were to date someone new who had kids. he wants to be involved and since its a baby there will be some complications and things that have to be handled slower and with a more delicate touch than if kid was older, but it is still my wives kid so i will do what i can to raise it and not treat her (its a girl) like one of my own kids, since my other 3 kids will see it as a full sister, we wont call her half sister.
25 - i put your post in a notepad to go thru it some more, i see some very valid points you make, im not going to deny most of it, i know i have not been a great person. the DV classes were forced, but i was doing my own IC before them cause i knew i had a problem.
last night -
got home, kids were mostly calm, we ran out of dish soap for the dishwasher so she was washing dishes by hand, i grabbed a towel and started helping. she stayed about an hour in total, kids were still up and put some music on and were dancing, her being 6 months pregnant as we were sitting there i offered a foot massage and she accepted, it was nice. my big issue is always talking R with her, i think i made one comment but nothing that turned into a disscussion last night.
this morning -
nothing too exciting, kids were already up, and she didnt sleep well so going to be a long day for her ( i work 12 hours) and then she was going out with her brother tonight. i have only said that should be fun. even though on the inside im disappointed she doesnt want to spend time with me, and always makes excuses that she is tired and will not hang out with me and she will end up staying out with him til 2-3 in the morning most likely.
next few days - she has her own photography business and is planning on sleeping in sunday and then working on pictures the rest of the day. i have asked if she would like breakfast or lunch with me and the kids, no answer yet. monday we have a couple of appts we are going to do then after school going to have a family date day/night since money is tight and no family can watch out 3 kids so her and i can go out alone. tuesday is another day she is claiming to work and i will not see her at all.
we basically still run a custody of 50/50 and she does have a job she makes money at yet, so she has 3-4 days off a week to do nothing. i work 3-4 days 12 hour shifts and my days off i watch and take kids to school. so i know i have some changes i need to do, just little time to do them! i can make the time though, just has to be with 3 kids in tow.
so i know i have some changes i need to do, just little time to do them
Why
little time to make changes?
If you see that talking to her about the R is actually hurting the situation, then don't you think it would be rather dense to keep doing it? I mean, how's that working for you?
yes i do realize just how dense i am by talking R to her. its just hard to do when i actually get around her. i know its my nature to be controlling, and for this to work i have to let that part of me go and let her choose what she wants. i can see it, i know it, im working hard to actually DO IT. which is why i finally posted here, so maybe i could talk a bit more about it to other people and not to her.
the little time is that she is 6 months pregnant... and i guess for my kids sake as well, i wanted us to figure out if we are trying to work this out or moving on before the baby is born.
Coming here to post might ease some stress for you. For sure, you will meet some great people who are willing to give of their time and experience to help others.
I think I understand a little about the control and trying to fix the R by talking about the issues. I was like that for the biggest part of my life. At least you realize what you are doing wrong. When we don't know where we're failing then how will we know what to change?
Talking was the only way I knew how to communicate with another person. My H, on the other hand, did not talk with me. It was the most frustrating ordeal for a person like me.
Focus on the things you need to improve about yourself. I mean as a man, first, and then as a husband, and a father. Set yourself daily goals. Talk to us about it. Don't talk to your W about it, okay? Very important not to discuss how you want to change or asking her if she's noticed any difference in you, etc. She will notice, but the hardest thing for her to believe....is you staying changed. Anybody can be better for a few weeks, even months.....but what about years? You can look under the Newcomers forum and see two or three stories from former members who DBed and got their S to stay in the M.....only to stop the changes and to fall back into their old habits/ways. So, it has to be life-long improvements and it has to be for yourself, first.
Instead of looking at this stitch like the two of you are going to see if things can be worked out or not.....you need to decide that the M you had is dead. The man you use to be is dead. In fact, the girl you M is dead. Refresh yourself with that part of Michele's DR book that discusses a beginner's mind. B/c that is how you need to enter in this part of your life. It will be so tempting to tell your W to do that also.....but don't. It's just for you.
We call DBing the game play, or the toolbox. It's just for you to use, and not her.
Do you feel that the DV classes and the IC has helped you to a great degree? Is there a limitation to how many DV classes you can attend? I believe you can see how you must be able to channel your tempter in a different manner. I have a male family member who struggles with his temper. He has one of those long boxing bags hanging up in his garage. When he first gets home from work each day, he give that old bag the hardest punches he can give, and does it as long as it takes for him to get the built up stress out of his system.
If you know that the only way to make this MR work is for you to change, not her, then I believe it has a very good chance of making it. Don't expect her to make any self-improvements. Don't expect any response from her toward your improvements. That's why you can't put her actions or attitude under a magnified glass, just stay focused on you. That's not to say she doesn't need to make any changes herself, but you are the one here and it's you that we will be trying to help. This works when you do it right!
yes i have been reading posts for the last month or so, following as many people's situation as i can, specially the ones that seem close to mine, it helped for sure seeing that things can get better, just thought i might need a bit more since her not having a place to sleep and me with an extra room and her not willing to stay under the same roof that i better get myself under control more/faster/better.
ill do my best to not try and get tempature checks from her, but its hard to not be like look at all these things im doing differently... i found a great post that talked about change, and how it will take her a while to feel like its real. i know she thinks its fake still. every day in the last 3 months of so up until about 2 weeks ago, we would hang out, have a good time and then BAM i would start talking R and ruin it.
i still have a good 4-5 months of DV classes left, so im half way there, i am very active in my group, i know its the best thing that could have come out of all of this, and being controlling does have a few roots in my childhood, though not all. i was selfish, i wanted what i wanted and i didnt want to be hurt or vulnerable to anyone. the classes do help, they show me some tools that i need to use, very simular to DB'ing. GAL for sure, not being so isolated, not having her be more than 20% of my happiness. only i can make myself happy, not someone else. not to always point out what she ISNT doing and to celbrate the things she can do and handle at this stage.
its hard to stop begging her if we just could jump back in i know it would work. it seems so logical. but i realize its not about me, its about her and the time and space she needs to sort out a lot of stuff. meanwhile i need to make myself look more attractive to her. so ill be working on some goals in the next few days that im off.
**update on today, we met for lunch, she brought 3 kids with her, i blew it for a good 15 minutes of my hour lunch. im not her friend on facebook, and she is very guarded with her phone, so i of course start accusing her of trying to hide baby daddy and their relationship from me. it turned into a fight for a few minutes til i got myself under control, and dropped the rope and asked to have a good rest of the lunch, even though i was the one that ruined it to start. i really shot myself in the foot when she does see me, then i jump on her verbally like that, why would she want to plan to see me again when that happens every time!!!! sheez. and i KNOW not to do it!!!
*** tonight she is going out with brother, i knew this and planned on making swap with kids go quickly... just got text from her...
wife: brother wants to meet 8 815 if you can get home quickly, i know youll probably be upset cuz im running out the door, but i did tell you i had plans....
i didnt respond yet, but obviously past interactions show up big in how she is assuming im going to be. going to do my best to make sure she meets him at 8!!
wish me luck!
isn't it sad (but useful) when you hear a comment that reveals how SHE sees YOU? She's expecting you to be upset by a small thing. And she's got reason for that expectation...(SIGH)
So, respond quickly, with a normal, healthy man's response, like "No problem. I'll do my best to get there!"
and recognize some of your behavior is simply the behavior of a bully.
Do you want to be that guy?
The fact that you are here, suggests you do not.
DBing can only help you improve your life.
But yes, you DO have to DO it.
No talking about it. The more you talk about your changes, the more they'll appear to be tactics.
Plus, some of them are simply "non bullying" behaviors. Don't expect applause.
But hey, the more she's with you, the more you need to "hear" loud clapping and know you do have an audience watching you.
IMO, she WANTS to believe you'll change for real, permanently. She wants to be able to trust you and to feel safe with you.
She doesn't have amnesia.
She has a lot of images/memories to cope with, and to erase from her mind/heart.
You have to help her do that by proving yourself worthy and changed.
Keep at it. Come HERE to vent...
i did respond to her text with something like, im not upset, you did tell me and ill make sure to be home as quickly as i can and get you out the door so you have enough time with your brother.
she responded with something like... its not like im going to be able to stay up past 9 anyway. she has been very tired and she has always been one that needed more sleep. i basically said well i dont want to be the one that gets blamed for holding you up!
i called her on the way home to work out some logistics for sunday and monday.... she is basically wanting sunday to spend sleeping and resting at her moms house. i do offer to make her breakfast or lunch when she gets up, and she is considering it still. made a comment that ill just be mad if she says no and ends up staying at her moms all day. i will be disappointed but will try not to show it to her. asked about switching cars and she said she will for sure be over monday morning to take kids to school then we have some combined errands and sort of a family date day (no sitters
) after we get oldest from school.
** any ideas that dont cost a lot for a family of 5 to do that seems a bit thoughtful and romantic? i live in denver, so i thought about a drive to the mts maybe? she likes walks and hiking but 6 months pregnant and she has a dentist thing monday to pull a tooth... so probably anything physical is out! lol
i get home, we talk for maybe 10 minutes total, and she gets out the door and drives off about 740? a big win for me, no guilt to her about leaving, or grilling her about what she is doing, nothing. i do say she cant go see harry potter 7... since its something her and i plan to do, but its kind of fun banter about it and something a bit different than how i was in the past. before i might have said shes only 'allowed' to see just this 1 or 2 movie, the rest she has to 'save' to watch with me... yeah such a nice guy i am eh?
i get one text about gas mileage and i text her back she has a lead foot, and off she goes. i spend the next 2 hours playing with kids, feeding them, and trying to get the house back in shape from her spending all day with my kids in it. 3 kids in a house all day can do some damage, and she is not as attentive as i think she should be, but its something i cant ask her about, and ultimately something i need to figure out if i can live with. she blames me for being this way, as in the past i was not very helpful around the house, and basically just said, ah their kids let them play. so since last feb i have changed completely and now keep my house cleaned up daily, and her watching kids in my house and sort of trashing it every day is a little weird. so house is sort of cleaned up... lol
was playing with middle kid, and he tells me to lay down with him, and i of course... fall asleep! haha i miss a text from wife saying "thank you for tonight!!! " all the better i missed it but makes me pretty happy. obviously i wake up sometime later and get on here to post update and get kids put into the right beds for the night. lol
so all in all a good night of being different. we will see how tomorrow goes and if i can keep it up. and as it was said... the old R is dead, who i used to be? dead, or soon to be i hope. that guy was horrible and he wasnt happy even though he tried to control everything and everyone around him. yuck.
she texted me first this morning so thats good, no conversation about seeing her today or anything, trying to just respond after she texts me, and not right away when i do.
im really hoping what they say is true about 3 weeks to make a habit.
cause if its not a habit i fear i may just not care much about her, she went out last night, dont know where, or how long, and well... i dont care i have not asked, its not really bothering me, its just some alien person i dont know.
one thing that i need to get out... im a very touchy feely person. and since all of this, we have not done anything like that at all. yesterday i walked up behind her and gave her a hug while feeling her belly (6 months preg) and she thought i was over stepping bounderies. i know it needs to be on her timeline, just [censored]. at one point we were holding hands in the last 3 months but i talked my way out of that with pushing R talk every day... we really could have been there already if i was not so hung up on talking about it all the time. how do people NOT talk about stuff? just seems so weird and not right to me, but i guess everyone is different and i better get on board with how she thinks and wants to do this... lol
and i totally failed today when she did come over for lunch. ended up being lunch and 1 1/2 discussion... again.
and a little bit more back and forth in text since then. she even texted me i had been doing good what happened?
im going back thru my thoughts and trying to figure it out, i was doing good. i didnt feel that bad about what i was doing, it didnt seem natural but it didnt seem that out of place.
biggest thing i can think of is i was expecting results. and instead of really looking and seeing that i was getting results, i looked for results i WANTED TO SEE. i wanted to see more contact, more loving gestures. what she was doing, and of course i see them now, was talking to me more, not always being mad when we talked, answering the phone if i call... but i didnt see it as enough.
she just sent me a text that said.... 'reset!!!!' i just sent one back saying "done"
hopefully i didnt ruin tomorrow as thats our errand day we had planned. she did say what i fear, she took a risk coming to have lunch with me, and i turned it into a 2 hour discussion/fight. why do i know i cant do this but yet i still do?!?! sheez. need someone standing next to me with a 2x4!
the other thing a therapist told me, and its true... when you rob a bank and have a gun... if things go bad and you shoot someone... its not like you intended to shoot anyone, but you did... why have the gun? why rob the bank... i gotta stop going into the bank. and armed no less!
You backslid. Thats fine. You recognize it. You recognize the difference between what you were doing and what you did.
You're new at this stuff, and you are trying to make changes.
It almost never comes in a linear fashion. It's about how you deal with your failures that will determine how successful you are in the long run.
i didnt feel that bad about what i was doing, it didnt seem natural but it didnt seem that out of place.
I think this is what doing something differently than what you've always done typically feels like. Its going to take a while for this to become habitual for you - and new habits take more energy than old ones. You experienced this firsthand today.
You get a lot of credit from me for making an effort and reflecting on what triggered your old behaviors - you were looking for results from someone else though, and this is where I suspect you started to get very anxious. You can't look outside of yourself for the changes you are trying to make.
The changes are for you - and they will benefit your R. Not just with your W, but with other people in your life as well.
One useful technique is to 'preload' your decision making. This means, you can anticipate where you are likely to drop the ball, and make a decision about what you are going to do when that happens. This kind of practice is very useful in 'programming' yourself to make a better decision under stress.
For example:
IF I find my heart starting to beat faster in my conversation with W, THEN I will take a deep breath and relax my muscles, and look for a way to defuse the situation.
IF I find myself having a discussion that I know is going to blow up on me, THEN I will directly acknowledge it and suggest we talk about something else.
You can do this - it takes work, but you can do it. You probably know what it feels like when you start a discussion thats going to spiral out of control. It's okay to not keep having it.
our monday went ok. we did a lot of stuff together, stuff i never ever used to do. we ended up talking, i thought it was ok, but it turns out any sort of talking is too much for her i guess. well at least any kind of what happened in the past, what to expect for our future.
she is 27 weeks pregnant and still has no plan where to live.
she did 2 things yesterday that dont have anything to do with R stuff or anything else that i have to decide if we get back in a R if i can put up with.
she still said a couple of times she not sure who she should pick??? it was a big blow i truly thought she had already picked me and thats why we were trying to work things out. she is very hesitant to get in a R with me, 1 big reason is the baby daddy would not longer be an option, and she doesnt want to regret it???
i took her out for dinner for her b-day, i let her take a nap before we went and she was uber blah and cranky. i did a good job at dinner leaving her alone and having fun with my kids.
at one point she did say... she was just getting used to talking to me and not worrying that i would turn it into a discussion, well i kinda ruined that and am back to square 1. i did try to ask her to set a time to talk to me about it, but no dice. i also said (and she should not HAVE to do this) but why dont you tell me your uncomfortable with the conversation and tell me at the time. she said she should not have to. i should just know. FYI this is also true of whats romantic, i should just KNOW what she likes and wants and needs.
so today i didnt text her, its a 'work' day. she is trying to start her own business so she takes days like today to work. she texted me once, reminded me of some bill, and thats been all i have heard from her today.
i sent her one back, and then another a little bit later just kinda of being funny about my day so far, she had always complained in the past i never would share the small things about my day.
one thing else she did say...
she is kind of waiting for a big sign thats says.... TAKE HIM BACK. i dont think all the small signs are out weighing the bad ones.
i sent her a text with a list of things... just things i did yesterday, that were different than how i used to be, and these were just the things i did in 1 day.
so im not going to try and talk to her til she reaches for me, but DAMN its hard. so posting here, and trying to keep busy with me kids.
had a good DV group. they called me out on some stuff i thought i was doing well over the last week or two, basically saying i was not doing the changes for me yet. ive been a jerk for 12 years its hard not to want to be a better H for her. if she chooses me. i so need to back off and not talk R. she was just getting to the point where she thought me a friend again and could talk.
i did do one thing right today, she texted me a total of 3 times. i didnt get mad at her for that, she ended up spending most of it in the hospital with an uncle who had a baby be airlifted to the local hospital since it wasnt breathing. and she being 6 months along im sure this hit home big time for her. so i know she had a long day. just wish i wasnt such a jerk in the past about how she feels so that she would be able to open up and talk to me, without fearing i would turn it into something she isnt doing for me...
i know i cant make her decide to be with me, but i better get it together so that she WANTS to. actions actions actions... hard to do. need to make daily goals like i see on other posts and then come back and see if i met them. once i get into work tomorrow will make goals for the day. first goal for tomorrow when she comes to watch kids,
listen!!
be empathtic and no talk of any issues i have
dont push for hugs, touches
smile, and thank her for watching our kids
rest after i get to work, haha
so bit of a set back. but have not told her i know yet. found a receipt from her birthday on Aug 1st. to her favorite restaraunt. this was a day she would not hang out with me and told me she needed to be alone. aug 1st. basically baby daddy took her out that day and she didnt tell me.
big blow cause i thought she was being honest about when she see's him. he left the receipt in her car in pretty plain sight, and ive been driving her car last few days.
it hurts she went with him to the place i always took her for her birthday, and it explains why she didnt want to go there when i took her out a few nights ago.
and while she didnt lie to me per say, she was not honest about her contact with him, and so now i wonder when else she has seen him and not told me.
and if i should even ask her about it, im sure she will turn it on me for somehow snooping, but i feel like a level of trust has just been broken and now i dont know what i can trust her about
so bit of a set back. but have not told her i know yet. found a receipt from her birthday on Aug 1st. to her favorite restaraunt. this was a day she would not hang out with me and told me she needed to be alone. aug 1st. basically baby daddy took her out that day and she didnt tell me.
big blow cause i thought she was being honest about when she see's him. he left the receipt in her car in pretty plain sight, and ive been driving her car last few days. it hurts she went with him to the place i always took her for her birthday, and it explains why she didnt want to go there when i took her out a few nights ago.
and while she didnt lie to me per say, she was not honest about her contact with him, and so now i wonder when else she has seen him and not told me.
Maybe she thought you'd over react to the information, as you do so often. And when that happens, it creates the "need to lie" in the spouse,
and then the one with the wacky temper (that would be YOU) wonders why they don't get honesty back...
My guess is that she knows you can't handle this information.
She has NOT decided if she can tolerate your frequent temper problems and your controlling nature.
You still harbor many criticisms here about her. You mention that you are deciding IF YOU can tolerate her less than perfect housekeeping. What??
You also admit that they are YOUR kids making the mess (while she watches them) but you want HER to do the housework (and YOU have NOT helped in the past!!!)
yet you are the one with housekeeping standards higher than hers, but you are basically you are dumping your expectations on HER, without you helping...it's a lose lose for her.
And btw, she's pretty pregnant...remember? So for you to expect much childcare from her AND housework...is a set up for failure.
And she's got a job too? That's a lot for any woman to deal with.
Just do the housework yourself and be grateful she's giving your presence a chance. Those would be 180s of significance.
and if i should even ask her about it, im sure she will turn it on me for somehow snooping, but i feel like a level of trust has just been broken and now i dont know what i can trust her about
Leave it alone. She never said she was done with OM. She never said you were in piecing.
You KNOW you will push her into his arms by arguing about this.
Why would you even consider doing that? This is like the armed robbery example your t mentioned, again...
learning from past mistakes means NOT REPEATING them...
I do harbor too many criticisms of her, you are correct. I wont go into too much detail, but I used to not help at all. Her standards used to be higher than mine but she blames me for making hers lower. I do need to lower what I think she can do based on being pregnant. She doesn’t work though, well kind of but it’s a job she is working on starting to make money on her own. I have been cleaning up the house each night after she leaves so she can start fresh with the kids in the morning. Even vacuuming and I never ever vacuum lol
As far as the temper, I don’t fly off the handle mad, but your right, I still react in a way that’s controlling and accusing, so even though I didn’t see it as being all over the place, I am.
She has stated that she is not seeing him or dating him til her and I figure out our issues and if we are going to try and stay together or not, so we are not piecing, but she is committed to me enough to where she is not going to date or be with anyone else til then.
Yes it’s a lose discussion for me for sure. And will push her closer to him and further from me. Just hard finding out your wife didn’t feel safe seeing me on her birthday, then seeing him and at a place I have always taken her.
I sent her a text saying nothing significant. Hopefully not repeating mistakes… lol
I do harbor too many criticisms of her, you are correct. I wont go into too much detail, but I used to not help at all. Her standards used to be higher than mine but she blames me for making hers lower. I do need to lower what I think she can do based on being pregnant.
She doesn’t work though, well kind of but it’s a job she is working on starting to make money on her own. I have been cleaning up the house each night after she leaves so she can start fresh with the kids in the morning. Even vacuuming and I never ever vacuum lol
Yes it’s a lose discussion for me for sure. And will push her closer to him and further from me. Just hard finding out your wife didn’t feel safe seeing me on her birthday, then seeing him and at a place I have always taken her.
I sent her a text saying nothing significant. Hopefully not repeating mistakes… lol
2 questions for you, and I honestly don't mean to quibble here, but I'm curious.
Why do you post "lol" in the places you posted above^^ here? Were you making a joke? What's the joke?
OR
Are you undermining what you just said by following it with "lol", or highlighting it, or what? IOW, What's it mean?
2nd, your other comments are highlighted in the hopes you can see the controlling and critical pattern of yours.
BTW--She IS working. She is trying to start a business. That's called work, to most people. Don't put it down or make light of it. It's disrespectful, (as are nearly all of your comments about her housework.)
And that will get you nowhere fast. Ever wonder how OM treats her?
I don't want you to go nuts with that question
but just ask yourself if there aren't a bunch of reasons your w felt so unloved.
Being criticized feels a lot like being disliked and disrepected. It hurts.
So next time you want to make a remark about what she didn't do right or enough of, (especially things you never did yourself before now...)
you might want to ask if it's worth losing your w and family for.
Mostly, it's not.
Just my .02
the LOL is not meant to be a joke or anything, its something i have always done. i think its mostly to laugh at myself for never doing something before or to take some of the seriousness out of what i say? im not 100% sure to be honest i dont realize im doing it most times.
as far as her job and control, its my belief system that is holding me up being more supportive. not saying my belief is right at all, but when she spends so much time away from the family, we have 3 kids S7,S5,D3 and her having another on the way to add to our family, and doesnt bring back anything for all of the work put in, i see it as not as valuable. again, a belief system i have that if your working its helping to support the family, something i know i have to change.
and as far as critisizing what she doesnt do... i know thats a HUGE issue for me. ive never been good at telling her good job, or celebrating the small things, instead always picking at why she didnt do more, or think about calling me when she got home and was so tired she passed out... i have been working really hard to not do those things to her, and bring them more here, yes i have done a lot of bad things to her and i was not helpful... and i no longer want to keep score, i can be who i am, hopefully working towards a person i can be proud of, that someone would be wanting and willing to be in a relationship with.
i know i need to do a better job in my expectations, of myself and her.
i literally am not strong enough for this. i made it one day and discussion came up and away i ran with it. again. i could see her check out. but instead of stopping i think if i keep talking ill get myself out of this.
i do not think im good enough to do this. i have no self control or patience and i will lose her before i gain them. broke down and cried.
she said one thing to me, that was a blessing and a curse. she thinks i can change, just not with her. im used to bulldozing over her feelings too much and i cant change for her.
what if shes right? why do i feel like i can do this but not when her and i get together? i really did fail again. how many more times can i keep reseting before shes gone.
i keep re-reading advice in these posts and other situations.
i re-read the book last night. one part hit home, the story in DR about the wife who wanted a trial separation, and it turned into a full by his pursuing. thats total me. how do i STOP.
i get to talking, see it went bad then talk some more to try and get myself out of it... its soooo horrible.
do i really not care about her enough to stop? am i too set in my ways to change? is it truly that i cant control her and this is the last thing i have left is talking? just trying to figure myself out before its too late.
any books to try or advice? i know im making a choice here, and its the wrong one. why do i have no respect for her boundries?
so one issue i could not let go with my wife was that she still had a picture of her and baby daddy as a couple on her facebook page. i asked her to take it down nicely a few times, and sort of fought about it last night...
well she took it down, and all the pictures of her and i. guess i got what i wanted and pushed her away from me even more. im a rock star.
time is not my friend, cause patience is what i have to show her, and i cant do that in 1 day. how to learn patience. /sigh
I understand how hard it is, but you MUST stop pursuing and you do need to practice patience. Like you, I am a very impatient person and this has been a very humbling experience for me.
Remember, these problems did not occur overnight, and they won't be fixed overnight either.
If you cannot handle speaking with her without going into R talk, then don't speak to her.
You are pushing her further and further to the door.
i did ok for 10 of 14 days, then its been like every other day now... still not good enough.
i asked her... i know this was a discussion topic... but i said, if i really stopped discussions all the time, would you work on this with me... and she said yes. not getting my hopes up, cause its an easy way to end a start of a discussion, but i have my marching orders.
marching orders that i knew, and everyone here knows and reminds me of daily. SHUT UP BRAD! lol need to tape it to my forhead or something
i did a good job not talking to her as she left last night so she could try and get a little more sleep.
she has been having braxton Hicks type contractions the last few days, and our 3 kid was born on week 31, she is 28 weeks along now. i know i cant talk too much about anything to her, but it feels pretty scary she doesnt have a plan still on where to live. if the baby comes out now what will she do? if the doctor orders bed rest? i know all of these things are not my issue, and nothing i can do about it except let her make her own choices, just hard to stand by and know im partly the cause of all of this and her not feeling comfortable.
i did ask her about retrouvaille as there is one coming up near us in mid Oct
we did briefly go back thru the last week, and rated the days 1-10 (1 being bad for her, 10 being a good day) for me discussing stuff, we marked them on a calendar. few things that were helpful for me on that... its either all or nothing for her, i ended up with 2 10's 1 9, 2 3's and a 2. so in the last 6 days 3 good 3 bad.
goals:
i know these need to be more specific but rough idea so far
-no talking about baby daddy (fastest path to discussion)
-aim for 3 consecutive 9 or 10 score days.
-temper expectation, and notice any changes!! not just the ones i want to see!
-show patience and understanding in any decision she makes, even if i dont agree.
-compliment her for doing something, dont be critical how it was done or what she didnt do.
goals for myself:
-study for certification 2 hours each day i work
-get out of the house with kids, park/friends/family/anything
-use the big red stop sign when my thoughts wander (i think waaaay to much, have a lot of time on my hands even with kids home it seems)
-get the dryer moved into basement
-get kids clothes hung up
can you please get a c or a DB coach?
Don't say you cannot afford a therapist or counselor or db coach b/c trust me
divorce costs more...a lot more.
You need help. That's alright. I did too. You do too. Get it. ASAP...maybe there's a chance.
At least you know she needs a place to stay. SHE knows this too. Trust me, SHE is wondering about it.
It's your battle to lose b/c you offer her a place WITH her other children and a home...
so don't blow this. You have material advantages but personal disadvantages.
You control those. (OR you should)
so make the call for help today
the above post did scare and worry me a little. its not that i can afford a C, i just thought i was using the DV classes to help me out, and had been picking up a lot of book knowledge and tools that i could use.
do i use these tools yet, not its not habit yet to actively listen, and to reflect my wifes feelings back to her, ive been selfish and controlling for my whole life, so as much as i want, the behaviors dont change over night just cause i want them too, i have to work on it and use self discipline and control which i have never really worried about before.
one of the things my class had us do this week was write a letter to ourselves as if we were the spouse. my wife read this and thought i was in her head is was so close to accurate that she was a little upset that i knew all of these things about her, yet i still didnt really know her by the actions i still show her.
im going to re-read all the advice in my thread, make sure im not missing something, but if anyone is still seeing some behavior jumping out at them that im still showing and doing in my updates, please tell me, im not here to win. i want to be happy.
the above post did scare and worry me a little. its not that i can afford a C, i just thought i was using the DV classes to help me out, and had been picking up a lot of book knowledge and tools that i could use.
do i use these tools yet, not its not habit yet to actively listen, and to reflect my wifes feelings back to her, ive been selfish and controlling for my whole life, so as much as i want, the behaviors dont change over night just cause i want them too, i have to work on it and use self discipline and control which i have never really worried about before.
This^^^ is why I suggest getting a c.
one of the things my class had us do this week was write a letter to ourselves as if we were the spouse. my wife read this and thought i was in her head is was so close to accurate that she was a little upset that i knew all of these things about her, yet i still didnt really know her by the actions i still show her.
im going to re-read all the advice in my thread, make sure im not missing something, but if anyone is still seeing some behavior jumping out at them that im still showing and doing in my updates, please tell me, im not here to win. i want to be happy.
Sounds good. But don't resist the idea of getting one on one help. Like I said, I did. Most people here have at one point or another.
Like you said, life long habits are hard to break. But the stakes are high.
Why not increase your chances for success as much as possible?
doing a good job today keeping things light, and i dont feel freaked out or worried. i think its a bit of self control, and trying to keep that red stop sign up to stop me from thinking about things too much.
one thing she told me last night was i dont tell her much about me and whats going on with me day, but always want to the letter details of her day. i never meant for it to feel like an interogation, it was just something i would ask a lot of questions, maybe for the wrong reasons. so i have tried to keep her up to speed on my day, even though its kind of boring at work, and she has responded in kind, its nice. even if she didnt respond i would do my best to tell her about my day and not have any expectation of her telling me about her's.
self control. this is really the root of all my evil. looking at a couple books to get... hold onto your N.U.T.s and the 40 day love dare.
i have to blow away my old belief system reguarding relationships. a beginners mind.
i can do this, i am strong enough.
hey,
let things lighten up a bit. You don't literally have to entertain her with a fascinating story of the day. My h is a doctor who literally saves lives and for several years my law job was boring as hell, comparatively. So I let HIM talk OR we spoke of current events, our hobbies, etc.
Are you interestED and interestING? It's part of GAL and you can talk about those things too.
Rent some comedies (laughter is a great bonder, a turn on for some)
and or rent some chick flicks (YOU CAN HANDLE IT!!).
OR go OUT and see a live show (they require full focus when you attend live shows/plays.)
but if money is tight, rent something fun.
Good luck
so she wanted me to pretty much grab kids and go again tonight. this has been a theme for a while. different excuses usually. i said that was find, and for the most part did just that.
kids say things that cut without trying. i guess baby daddy was over to hang out with them a few times. i didnt ask to know, i kind of dont want to cause it just causes conflict, but when she doesnt tell me it goes back to feeling like she is hiding things.
i was not allowed to have a night out this week, her family thought i was pushing too hard for a night without kids and jumped to the conclusion that i was sleeping with someone. i guess its still to be expected, but before she lost the house i had 3 nights week without kids. so for that to be the reason why i cant go out now seems silly?
we parted on good terms, she seemed happy and we joked around a bit, i thought it was in good fun and she sounded like she was going to text me later.
no text yet. ah well.
got the kids in bed and playing around on the computer a little, making some cd's from my itunes so i can play some music tomorrow and work in the garage.
going to my families house for lunch dinner so that should be fun, and have the next 4 days off. i have nothing planned with my wife, and asked her if she would like to do something with me and she already started tossing excuses at me, so i kind of let it go. not as nicely as i wanted to, so im sure she thought i was mad about it
so all in all a good day. yeah bothered a bit by baby daddy being around, and never really making or wanting to do anything with me, but its getting easier to not worry about it. not perfect yet and things still hurt and sting, but for the most part im trying to act like she is gone at this point, which is sad. but of my own doing.
this is hard. i know a lot of this situation is my fault, and karma coming back around on me. but wow it [censored] and is hard!!
have not heard from her since got the kids last night. now im going over the exchange a bit more trying to figure out if i upset her or what. i read way too many things from little things. i just want to call and text her right now but i cant. so i popped in to post here.
i dont feel like in the past where i would be kind of freaking out not talking to her, im pretty calm, just find it crappy we are not talking is all. all the little things even in the past 3 months she used to do that doesnt do now, all the advice from her family to bail on me.
anyway, props to all of you that stay the course. its hard!
had a good day at my parents yesterday, made a point of not talking about wife so that i could enjoy myself, and frankly it felt good. got one text from her about stuff she might like to get for a garage sale, didnt really respond cause didnt know what to say. i have sent her 1 text couple hours before, just kinda of telling her a bit about my morning.
got 1 more texts later on in the evening basically asking how my day went and a you never responded to my message.
then a second bout 30 minutes later asking if i was ignoring her on purpose she had not heard back from me all day. and then went thru what she had for dinner and goodnight.
i was at my parents so i really didnt see them, i didnt mean to ignore them, but it was kind of a 180 for me as i almost obsesivly check my phone. by the time i saw the messages later on i figure she would have been asleep.
so ill send her something her soon, maybe not too much detail, but i dont want to be rude. anyway getting kids ready for school. 1 of the 4 days passed already and she really has not tried to do too much. guess i get a 10 for yesterday since we didnt dicuss or fight. didnt even really talk at all.
have not updated here in a couple days... because of me cheating on her she wanted to know about this site, so i dont feel i can post my thoughts as much now.
thought i was doing with the days i wasnt disscusing... til yesterday where i we ended up doing it for far too long. ill start again today but after yesterday it feels like there will be no point.
so i have DV classes i go to every week. i have 3 kids. wife watches kids for me so i can go to class. this week she was late and i missed the class. i dont know what the consequences are for missing it, we will see. but she has been late almost every morning to watch kids as well so i can go to work.
so ended up talking and discussing the night i missed class. several times i thought she was going to tell me it was over and be done. i think i almost told her the same thing a few times. i dont know where we are going from here.
she thinks i have never showed her any value, that i could replace her at any point. i dont know how to convince her otherwise.
on a side note, these tools do work. when you use them. i do feel better about myself, and i have seen some changes, im just not good enough to stick too them long enough to have them become the change i need. i am better, but still far from where i would like to be.
the part that im super stuck at, is that things have been better, are they perfect yet? no but damn there have been so many signs that things are better, and with support from her they would continue to get better, and we both know so much more now that we will never fall back into the old habits that was our old relationship. this is what i told her and it just leads me down more cheeseless tunnels and basically a mouse is smarter than me.
she did say that im not following the advice here, so i need to re-read it and follow it. as its good.
im sure no one will be surprised by this update but i once again had a discussion with my wife.
kids have been at my house last 2 weeks every night, so i asked if i could have a night without kids, i was planning on seeing a movie or trying to talk some of the guys from work to go out for a bit, or at worst go hang out with my mom and dad.
she was driving kids back to my house, and when i asked if she could either stay here with them or take them to her moms friday night she got mad. i had thought i had asked her several times earlier in the week, she thought i had not. she stated that she was getting up early doing a yard sale on saturday, and she still would have to come back and pick up kids sat morning as i work, so i thought, hey they would already be there, easy peazy. guess not.
we have been doing 50/50 with the kids for a while, we argue some about how she has helped me when i needed, i state the same saying i have helped her...
i had asked her to stay sat night and watch a movie, she said she didnt know, now she says i have an answer. no.
i dont think im mad at this point, not really upset, just kind of feel numb, i ask her what she wants from me, she says... i dont want anything from you.
im not using good I statements, im not using any conflict resloution. earlier in the day we talked about kids dinner time and bed time, she always thinks i make all the decisions, we are about a half hour off in what we both want for a bed time. i ask for her input, she makes some comments about how i didnt start being a dad til the last year and a half, and now i act all high and mighty about how my way is best for our kids. now i know i could have done more with my kids, but it hurts me a lot to have her tell me i wasnt even a good father, growing up, my belief system was the guy goes and makes the money, the girl stays home, its what my mom and any other family i can remember did. so to me, i thought i was a pretty good dad, i worked and made the money for the house. could i have done more around the house when i was off, absolutely!! but i thought i was at least doing close to my share. and on a second note, my oldest is 7, so a year and a half of doing the right thing with them, is a really big chunk of their lives. so to finish about the bed times and dinner, i suggest i can move up my dinner times, if she would push back her bedtimes a little bit. i was looking for 8 or so for the youngest, as i get home anywhere from 730-8, i could then see all my kids each day and help put them in bed when i get home. the answer i got for that suggestion of comprimise was, 'fine'. i even state, im not trying to steamroll you here, if you have any other thoughts or suggestions, or reasons why we should do it differently... still the same 'fine' response.
i know i always forget bits, we truly do talk or discuss too much. 2 last trains of thoughts...
somehow i get into asking for her to 'jump in' on this with me, and telling her i have changed a lot, i know i have more work, but if i could get some support from her it would help us grow together and to tackle all of these issues, she basically said she doesnt want to be my lap dog again. that is she were to try and support me, that she would just have to fall back into doing everything for me and nothing for herself. i try to explain that we both know we dont want to fall back into that, so we could stop it from happening, i know im beating a dead horse here, she doesnt see any change. heck maybe i dont show her change, i mean here we are talking... again.
last thought, we end up talking about what she needs or wants from me, she started in on how she barely has a car that works, no place to live, and started to get upset...
well i picked up the rope here big time, she has always blamed me for everything, even if i call her and her cell, she will blame me for the kids tearing up the house while talking to me, or well pretty much anything. and she is right, i played a huge part in how our life is right now.
either way, i said... "sounds like you are playing the victim still, i have offered you a house, we are exchanging cars, you have 3 wonderful kids that love you, a husband who does everything he can to support you"
well i had to text most of that since after i called her a victim, she told me F- you and hung up.
so thats where im at. she knows i hate being hung up on, and she has not answered my call last night or this morning.
i know i have not posted a lot here, but her and i have been playing this game for a 1 1/2. as much as i dont want to admit it, maybe i cant change for her, and she would be better off with baby daddy... i want her to be happy. would rather it be with me, but i dont know if she can see herself happy with me. i dont think i have enough time, specially since i still do not have control of my own self yet...
still nothing from her today. doing my best to let her be and not pursue. pretty much feel like i cant win at this point. i feel like i have tried to help her with so many things. house/car/money/kids...
she was seeing baby daddy today too. the one who is still chasing her and just waiting for me to mess up. do i have awesome timing or what?
im pretty stuck.
she has not tried to get a hold of me all day. i have sent 1 text telling her about a bill...
i just kept pushing til i buried myself didnt i? if i could have just loved and respected her enough to do what she wanted.
You've got to stop being co-dependent on her. You are so needy, and that is not attractive to a WAW. Back off, get out and get a life without her.
so she wanted me to pretty much grab kids and go again tonight. this has been a theme for a while. different excuses usually. i said that was find, and for the most part did just that.
kids say things that cut without trying. i guess baby daddy was over to hang out with them a few times. i didnt ask to know, i kind of dont want to cause it just causes conflict, but when she doesnt tell me it goes back to feeling like she is hiding things.
i was
not allowed to have a night out this week, her family thought i was pushing too hard for a night without kids and jumped to the conclusion that i was sleeping with someone. i guess its still to be expected, but before she lost the house i had 3 nights week without kids. so for that to be the reason why i cant go out now seems silly? What? She sounds silly? Um reality check. YOU sound Like a 15 y/o boy. You are a FATHER to 3 kids. Not a part time uncle or a single dude. I know exactly 0 men with kids, who go out 3 nights a week.
I don't even know ANY married men with NO kids- who go out that much. It's about time you stayed home. Ever wonder why your w was lonely? Stop whining.
we parted on good terms, she seemed happy and we joked around a bit, i thought it was in good fun and
she sounded like she was going to text me later.
no text yet. ah well.
SIGH...stop the expectations.
got the kids in bed and playing around on the computer a little, making some cd's from my itunes so i can play some music tomorrow and work in the garage.
going to my families house for lunch dinner so that should be fun, and have the next 4 days off. i have nothing planned with my wife, and asked her if she would like to do something with me and she already started tossing excuses at me, so i kind of let it go.
not as nicely as i wanted to, so im sure she thought i was mad about it
&weren't you mad? You sound mad here. You "kind of let it go"...given your past, don't you think you ought to just -LET- IT- GO?
so all in all a good day. yeah bothered a bit by baby daddy being around, and never really making or wanting to do anything with me, but its getting easier to not worry about it. not perfect yet and things still hurt and sting, but for the most part im trying to act like she is gone at this point, which is sad. but of my own doing.
Keep doing your own work. When you focus your energy on what she is doing, or not doing or what you THINK she is doing or not doing...
you steal that energy from where it belongs, which is working on YOUR CHANGES...
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Your consistent changes + time = Her believing in the changes.
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ps
what's with saying "before SHE lost the house"...?
Were you part of that financial scheme or not?
Were you working? Earning much money? Paying bills with it, or going out 3 nights a week?
Why is it solely due to HER?
If you do reconcile, lose the concept of married parents going out on their own, more than one DATE with each other...per week.
Sheesh...enough of the college antics. It got you in trouble. Learn from it.
thank you for the input, it does help.
we split the kids 50/50 so what i meant was before the kids were staying in the house, i had 3 nights week without kids. i didnt go out, usually i would watch a movie or study or sleep.
as far as the house, it should read more this way ' before the house was lost, she... '
i tried to keep the house, didnt work out with just my income and 2 houses to support with the kids 50% of the time.
still have not heard from her. all i can do is act as if when she does contact me, and not ask R questions or OM questions. i cant pick up the rope, no more tug of war.
trying to preload some thoughts for after work tonight. found a list the 25 had put in someone elses thread about all the rules, 37 of them. reading that a few times before tonight.
i have not heard from my wife since thurs night, usually tonight i pick up my kids after work, so i may or may not see her, she might tell me to get them from her mom and not be there.
i need to buckle down for the worst but not let it show. i may have already pushed her back into the OM arm's, or she might just need space and time away from me to think things over. assuming anything never is good, so i need to be able to be calm, and happy and not bring up any relationship talk, or ask her what she has been doing the last 2 days, nothing. just be happy to see my kids and to have the next few days with them.
to have no expectation that she will want to talk to or see me on my days off. and love her still no matter what. to stop putting conditions on my love i give to her. i want her to be happy.
time to re-read list! need to have it committed to memory!
i know not a lot of people are on right now, need advice quickly...
wife texted 'kids are at moms house'
so she is not going to be there...
last time we were cold and not talking she ended up with the OM. i dont want her to think im being cold again, but i dont know how to respond with a text telling her so...
was thinking something along the lines of...
""ok. im not done im not giving up, i know you need your time and space away from me right now. enjoy you evening. ""
enough? too much? am i stressing too much about OM and its not going to matter what i say?
Yuck.
""ok. im not done im not giving up, i know you need your time and space away from me right now. Sounds good! Enjoy your evening. ""
Maybe ^^^ fits a little bit better.
yeah i said ok, have a good evening.
the last time we didnt talk for a week and did these sorts of things... she ended up with him. so wanted to kind of convey im still trying i guess. lol ah well. ill send it worry about myself, she is going to do what she needs to do to make her happy. and i will enjoy an evening with my kids!
You can't hold yourself accountable for her decisions.
I'm sure she knows you are trying - and I'm sure a part of her appreciates that - so just keep moving forward and with your choices and actions show her that not only are you trying, you are doing.
Like that Yoda quote: "Do or Do Not, there is no Try"
Take care of yourself, love your kids, and keep growing.
he was there.
i pursued her for a conversation.
went horrible. obviously.
i did this to myself, but i need to start now. right now. if it is too late, my own fault, but i can no longer not have self control.
i need to change, and now. i need to leave the old brad to die. i wont miss you brad, you caused me too much pain.
hello new brad. nice to meet you!
wow im severely stuck today. very little communication going on between us. she didnt say it was over, but him being there when i was picking up kids felt like a big sign, so i have only been responding to her texts, not sending any to her.
over the last 3 days i worked on the house and getting some stuff done around there, hung out with my mom and spent 4 hours with 2 kids at the dealership for an oil change...
while dropping kids off, i briefly asked if her and he were a thing now, she said no. like she would be honest though. i know i should not have asked, and my answer is in her actions anyway, so i just need to keep working on me. the rest of the brief conversation was fine, told her about the car and a few finances since we are super tight with money right now.
so issue this morning...
she is staying at her moms house, and after last week when she got pretty mad at me and hung up, she has been staying there now with the kids on days that i work.
last night, grandpa got a little crazy and sounded like he was yelling and screaming and being pretty mean to my wife and kids, he even bumped my wife a few times and she called the police on him. he ended up leaving his house, and the kids and her and grandma stayed the night, once grandma left he was back and yelling again this morning, so my wife got her and the kids out of there.
ok so this is where im stuck... i dont know what to do. before she got angry at me last week the kids were staying with me every night and she was the only one sleeping at her moms and then coming back to them in the morning. when i saw him hiding when i went to pick up kids sat night i did ask her for the key back to my house. she had not used it the last 2 days anyway, but still.
i dont want to save her, or think im trying to, or her only option or whatever you want to call it. how do i offer her a solution for where her and the kids can stay so they feel safe. or at least the kids again after last night.
one thing she got super made at me for, was me telling her she always acts like the victim. and i want to help her, but how?
the other wrinkle is the OM has offered to pay for a place for her to live, this seems like something that would be sort of the death nell to our marriage to me having my wife live somewhere being paid for by a guy that is still chasing after her...
bottom line, i want to help her, but i want her to be able to stand on her own 2 feet as well, i dont want her to feel like i saved her, that will just have her feel more resentment towards me and push her further away.
and the kicker does feel like if i dont save her, he will.
sorry if this is not making sense or if im not getting how i feel across properly
any advise would be helpful, all i have responded with is
"im sorry you had to go through all of that"
If the living conditions for your w and kids, you need to change that.
Take your w out of the equation for a second. What is best for your kids??
It's not about helping her, it's about helping your children now.
Make sense?
So, how can I help you, wife, in making sure you and the kids are safe?
this is what i sent. we will see. i feel like im botching this whole thing.
So,
Stop asking her anything that's not essential, and most things are NOT essential. Text or email if you can. Reduce contact with her until you are ready to not blow it. That means at least a few weeks...at least. Plus the less contact you have, the more that your changes, if you make them, will be noticeable after you are apart awhile.
You said you have to stop blowing this, and I agree. So stop asking and pursuing like she told you to do. That's what you said you would begig doing "now"...
the very NEXT time you saw her, you asked her about OM...what?? that has to be a record for shortest lived "DB Change"...
Be disciplined and take the advice we are all hurling your way (and take your own advice)--Or don't, and live with regrets the rest of your life.
This is not easy, but it is simple. It's hard but just not that complicated.
She said she wants space...so give it to her. No brainer.
She said "no" to your question. Of course it's an inappropriate question
and of course she could lie, but she could also tell the truth...
what if you let that possible lie, comfort you enough so you don't keep probing and ripping the scab off? What if you at least pretend you believe her, just so it keeps you from blowing it more? Food for thought...
Do you get this?^^^
If you are trying to get her to see what m to you could be like, "from this day forward", which means letting go of the past and embracing a new loving future together (which I hope is the goal)
then start by shutting up about the OM. Otherwise, that constant breaking of your promises and pursuing her when she wants space,
and nagging and needing and obsessing, is what she'll expect of more of with marriage to you. She won't want that. Frankly, who would?
So, what's the solution to this complex issue? Oh, so simple...
Being quiet, being still...working on you and you only. For real.
Be the best man you can be, and leave the rest of it - up to God. HE knows and He gets it. Trust Him. Let Him change you. It's okay that you can't do this by yourself but you do have to do it...period.
Good luck
thanks, i really have stopped texting and calling, responded to things that she asks but not pursuing her with those methods. and i was doing fine with the conversation until my oldest asked about the OM and when he was going to see him next, and that he promised he was going to buy something for my oldest. i was not expecting that, and yes it caused me to blow it for a few minutes. it didnt turn into a huge discussion or long, but your right, i did ask about him, again.
and yes i dont think she would lie to me, so i will stop ripping the scab off and be more prepared for my kids to mention him and then not have to ask myself about him as well.
i go over the tools and the notes i take in classes once a day at least, and printed out the 37 things not to do. i feel stronger and better, just not 100% there yet.
okay then...
refer your children's questions about OM to your w. And don't listen for the answer, leave it alone.
how are YOU with the kids now? Remember that thing about being the best dad you can be?
it's so important, now more than ever. No mother is untouched by it --but make sure you are there FOR your kids, as opposed to having them around to comfort You...make sense?
Learn from the mistakes and don't repeat them. If you can do THIS, you'll be surprised at how far your progress will take you. If you stay stuck and repeat the same mistakes, a lot, it cements her choice to bolt.
You get that, right? I mean, you don't have to feel okay about it but you understand why this wuold be the case, right?
So, you're human and you fell but you got back up again. Believe her about the OM
b/c until something proving otherwise is tossed into your lap (do NOT snoop)
it'll keep you from freaking again. Freaking out, or 'losing it", is a serious backslide that will do m more to sabotage your DB efforts than aything else.
Keep it together. Be a good dad, do your 180s, DETACH and GAL.
I'm glad you printed out the "rules"...I sure had to. I cut the paper in half to make it small enough to fit into my purse, and I even put them on my Ipod by talking into it so I could hear them too...
I had to. I had to keep it together. So do you.
(( ))
so the last 2 days and today i have stopped talking R or really talking to her at all. i respond when she texts but its few and far between now, and its usually cold and right to the point about kids/money or car. lot of car issues this week.
so we have 2 vans, (3kids) and we had been switching then between days to help save on fuel, one is in a little better shape so hopefully better gas mileage. we didnt switch this week, and yesterday i got a text from her saying hey, car is overheating what should i do? i asked if the coolant is low or gone and then she texts back, coolant is full, nevermind. (im soooo not a car person) so me being the good DB'er i throw out one more thing it could be (check oil level) and i dont say any more.
fast forward to today, get a text... starts out, "i know you dont feel its your problem by my car is overheating every time i drive it now. and now i have a strange noise coming out of the dashboard"
i ask what she would like me to do. at this point no answer i have is going to work, wages were garnished for a medical bill, and we have no money til the 15th, 2 car payments behind on the other car, no tags for either, like i said before im not a car person so i cant just look at it and fix it myself. i dont know what im supposed to do or respond???
and just got back 'since my safety is never of any consequence to you, just letting you know kids might not get to school, as that effect is the only one that will matter to you'
i feel like this is a great time for a 180 somehow, but i dont have any solutions.
i can switch cars with her again, but if i cant get to work even bigger issue (30 mile drive)
i could have her drive me to work and pick me up, though this option will not appeal to her
have a friend/family member look at car?
im really stuck. i dont know what i can or should say to not dig myself further away from her, and push her away. sadly OM will probably step in and save her yet again. ah to be single and living with you parents. makes it easy to be the hero.
so nothing further ased or talked about with the car for now...
i did send one text back and said something like 'im guessing by my actions in the past make it seem like i dont care about your safety, i do truly care and will do all that i can to make you feel safe'
hope thats not pursuing too much and still lets her make a choice about using me for anything to help.
on the other issue about our kids, she asked yesterday or said... she needed me to watch them friday night if that was ok, i said that it was and until just a minute ago thought thats what we were doing. got another text that basically said she has found arrangements for the kids tonight, she no longer needs me but thank you anyway.
im truly not out to win, but it feels like by me leaving her alone she is just moving even further away from me. yes im mind reading a bit, and i know i cannot change her, so i will not try, just venting a bit here cause yeah its a little bit scary not knowing, and since knowing everything is how i controlled her in the past.
i was getting a bit nervous about seeing her tonight anyway so this puts that off til tomorrow. the in person contact is where im still pretty bad. ive been pre loading how to react to, and to expect anything!
so i have another evening to GAL tonight, a few hours at least. lets see if i can find something fun to do!
i did send one text back and said something like 'im guessing by my actions in the past make it seem like i dont care about your safety, i do truly care and will do all that i can to make you feel safe'
sorry i said help you feel safe, not make in the text, just checked. make implies a whole different thing, and is part of the wording im trying to avoid using with her, or anyone for that matter.
re-read some previous posts to my situation... wow. i have a long time to go here, this is not a quick fix anymore like i keep hoping. 25 said above... 2 weeks. be quiet, be still for 2 weeks. its been 2 days and i am seeing some cracks.
thanks all for posting your situations as well, i read through most of them and they do help, wishing you all the best of luck even if i dont post on your forum.
this is a personality change i needed to be more patient, and well i need to be patient to change so its rough. ill keep venting here to hold off talking to her. we will see how it goes!
So did you try to help with the van?
You could have given her all the options you listed above and let her decide which one to choose.
Otherwise you're letting her handle the crappy stuff and throwing up your hands. What was SHE supposed to do?
Can you get a 2nd job or a part time weekend one, b/c money is way too stressful for you guys and you maybe you could do it at night if the kids are with her anyhow. Does she have a job? I don't recall the ages of the kids. If they are all in school can she get work of some type?
Focus on fixing the money issues. Every woman/mother wants to know their kids are going to be alright. Fair or not, it's seen as a man's job to help provide. Can you do more? Not skimping on all things but getting a grip on finances and seeing a financial counselor or something to turn this around.
Just sounds like you don't really have a financial PLAN...
hang in there. One thing at a time, one day at a time.