I'm new to this so I'm not good with the lingo just yet. I've set up my first coaching phone call for tomorrow morning (Sat, July 9th) with Leni but I wanted to solicit the board also. Here's my story:
I recently turned 27 on May 30th. My wife is 26 and will turn 27 in September. We've been together since college (2004) - roughly about 7 years total - where I played football and she ran track while we were student-athletes at a big time D1 college. Since that time, she has gone on to be a professional track and field athlete that is very successful. She ran in the 2008 Olympics and placed very well in her event and is currently one of the fastest women in the world this year as well. I just work full time and support her in all of her athletic endeavors from managing her website to helping book travel and even going to meets with her. In May 2008 I proposed and in October 2009 we were married and have been married since that time. We've been together for 7 years total but only married for about 21 months as of July.
We had issues prior to and during our marriage but nothing I thought couldn't me resolved or worked through. One of her biggest issues was me having contact with several female friends and she not always knowing about the interaction (strictly through phone conversation or text, never meeting up with them or anything physically inappropriate). I'm not at all excusing my behavior but they were almost all prior to our marriage and my answer was to cut ties with the women all together. Her response was always they would think SHE was insecure and so in turn, she has actually befriended several of these women. My main issue was the fact that our sexual activity seemed so forced when we do have sex, we didn't have sex often at all after getting married and that she fails to communicate with me on issues and expect me to just figure them out. She still holds on to anything that was an issue for her prior to our marriage but has buried them and internalized them to the point where she has bitterness, anger and a loss of respect for me. She will not agree to counseling individually or separate because she thinks she's being judged and that she will be told how she feels or what she is doing is wrong.
We had some serious discussion at the end of last summer and I knew we were in trouble then but she led me to believe that in the months that followed she was past the issues as I made changes and that we were in a good place now. As recently as January 24th she sent me a heart felt video to my email address one morning saying she was happy with the direction of our marriage. On April 10th we sat in my mother's living room jokingly arguing about what we'd name our children. We have no children yet. Everything seemed fine and then all hell broke loose.
On or around April 11th or 12th of this year she became involved with OM who is a player in the NFL, initially through phone conversation and then she started visiting him. I had no idea for about the first week but quickly caught on. One of the women who was a bridesmaid in our wedding (that I've known since 3rd grade and introduced my wife to in college) actually is the one who provided the OM with my wife's contact info and that's how this started. Another woman in our wedding actually drove my wife to the airport to go see the OM one time during this ordeal. My W stopped wearing her wedding rings about 2 weeks into this ordeal but would travel with them everywhere by keeping them in a box in her purse. Right around that same time he told her that he loves her and she told him the same. OM has 6 children by several different women but is not married. I know several people who know him personally and they all say this is what he does but she doesn't see that because he's introduced her to some of his family and kids.
Since April she has visited him at his home in Florida at least 5 different weekends, has spent time with him at one of her track meets one weekend in Philadelphia, another weekend in New York, another in Vegas and even spent time with him in Ft. Worth for a few days (we live in Dallas so he was basically in our "backyard"). She has not been at home on the weekend for 13 straight weekends since this began. She either is competing or with him in Florida.
She filed for divorce on May 11th and then eventually hired a lawyer on June 11th after she found out I took money out of one of our accounts (when I realized she was starting to close other accounts and cut me off from access to them and when she had the locks changed at our house, I panicked and took money out of an account just in case it got even worse...and it eventually did...had I not done so, I wouldn't have been able to hire a lawyer after she did). We had a hearing in court on June 30th and are currently scheduled to meet with a mediator in September to discuss terms of the dissolving of our marriage and dividing of our estate.
During this time she has also been communicating with ANOTHER OM (OM#2) that is in the NFL and she even told him that she loved him and he responded saying he loved her too. They have not spent time together other than when they met in Las Vegas and even then that time was somewhat limited because she was in Vegas with 2 girlfriends. She and OM#2 communicate via phone and skype only. She has indicated that she's confused and feels lost and has no peace and says she just wants to be happy and loved the way she deserves to be loved and that shes created a mess. She says she doesnt want to hurt anyone but realizes she is and is just all mixed up. She feels like since she didn't speak up on her feelings before, now that she has she has to carry the divorce all the way through. She says too many people know, too many things have happened and that she's not the same person anymore, isn't in love with me anymore and just doesn't want this situation. She even uses me taking the money as a reason for why she can't turn back now.
I've been doing everything I can to fight it and from reading through some of the online forums on the site, some things I've done wrong and some I've done right. I've attempted to confront her both passively and aggressively, I've told her parents and sister of what was going on and even some friends in a flat out cry for help but to no avail. I've become consumed with this. I've tried doing nothing at times. I've tried flowers and cooking dinner. I was staying else where for a period of time, I've stayed at home for periods of time. We haven't had sex together since March 13th. She only admits to having sex with him once but will not speak on any of the details beyond that one time (which was basically 10 days after they got involved). I have her passwords (she doesn't know that) and so I was checking phone records and emails and facebook and twitter and everything looking to see what she is doing up until about two days ago when I discovered this site. She's indicated she feels backed into a corner and that I told too many people and she believes my reasoning for doing so was to hurt her and make her look bad. In reality, all I did was try to understand what was going on because two of the women who were in our wedding actually helped facilitate some of what she has been doing with the OM...basically one thing after another is what I perceive to be a "reason" why she says she can't come back. She's indicated she loves him and he loves her and during this process has occasionally given me the impression she is considering us reconciling (to the point where last Thursday after our court hearing we had a long talk and she actually said "it would be great if when we get to the mediator we were able to say thanks for coming but we don't need you all anymore") but then snatches that hope away by other actions. She is now in Europe until August (she left on July 6th) competing and then will be home for 10 days before going right back around August 17th. We communicate by phone and text and things have been more pleasant but this entire thing has consumed me and I never know what to expect next.
I've lost almost 30 pounds during these 3 months, have trouble eating and sleeping, can't find pleasure in many everyday things because we did so much together all the time and have basically been a complete wreck. I am going to Bible Study on Wednesdays, a professional counselor at church on Thursdays and church on Sundays in an effort to get further rooted in my relationship with God so that no matter what, I will be ok.
I know I've written a lot but that is only the cliff notes version. I've always been a person of faith but have gotten much, much closer to God during this ordeal so it is very important to me that I adhere to what His word says.
I know that I wasn't always the best husband but after reading the 5 Love Languages and studying a great deal in the Bible I have a much better insight as to how we can do things the right way. I don't take the full blame and I don't place it all on her either. That being said, nothing excuses how she's handled this. Essentially, she never wanted to address the issues she held inside and just felt like getting married would fix them. We prayed individually but not always together and so there are many things that I didn't do on my end to uphold the "head of the household" role a man is supposed to be.
But as I said before I am a man of faith and in my vows I said for better or for worse. For richer or for poorer. Not only did I commit to my wife but I also entered a covenant with God and I KNOW that we can overcome this but I also know she has to be willing to do so as well. I'm not sure how much hope there is in my situation but I am still going to "fight" until the end. I just need help. My faith leads me to hold on but my mind (and even others) tell me to move on. I just can't yet. I will not be the one to give in to a divorce. Is there hope? Am I completely at a loss here?
Hi mgm,
Welcome to divorcebusting.com. I'm so sorry that you have this pain and heartachage right now. I'm glad you have some support -- that's really helpful in being able to take care of yourself, and taking care of yourself is extremely important.
While you are in a very good place to be supported in your faith and saving your marriage, you will have to meet/love your wife 'where she is at'. In other words, she is obviously not on the same page as you, and that is going to be challenging, and you will have to be careful how you 'fight'. If your wife is preached to or made to feel condemned/judged while you work through this, it may not work out.
There are folks on this board who have navigated similar waters and they may be able to share their experience with you in a way that will help you.
Hang in there, people here are ready to offer their support and help.
I recommend Divorce Remedy, and that you begin with the chapters on The Last Resort Technique and Midlife Crisis and Infidelity.
Hang in there, there IS hope.
Thank you dbmod.
I've done exactly that. I've started reading Divorce Remedy and before you even made the suggestion, the Last Resort Technique and the Infidelity sections are the ones I read first.
It's difficult to put some of them into practice since she is in Europe for the remainder of the month so I guess what I struggle with is how and/or when should I attempt to contact her. For example, I've found myself sending her a scripture and/or a prayer with some commentary via text once a day. She has been receptive to it and thanks me for it and has even asked me to continue to pray for her.
Monday evening (July 11th) she messaged me out of the blue with this in a text message:
Can I be honest with you about something? I get frustrated with all of this because I can see you've made a change. And it frustrates me because that's all I ever wanted and now everything seems to passed due. I hate it.. From the weight loss, to closeness to God, to the genuine love I've always wanted. I don't know what I'm trying to say... I just get mad and frustrated about how things play out. Guess that's life.
I basically responded by saying I didn't want to undermine her feelings because I respect them and didn't want her to take any offense to my comments. She said she didn't mind me commenting on what she'd said.
I responded with this in a long text:
There's so much I'd like to discuss with you and pick your brain on but I understand your position. Just like I told you before, I think we both made too many emotionally charged decisions in this whole thing without thinking through their long term impact. And I won't even say you b/c I can't tell you why you've made decisions you have. I can only speak for me. I reacted out of fear throughout this whole thing. I do believe that those decisions aren't ones that can't be overcome but that's just the way I view it b/c I genuinely could care less what anyone thinks. Our lawyers, parents, friends or family. If we're good, the rest will fall into place. I actually keep having this vision of us heading up a marriage ministry at church (or being big parts of it) and having a testimony from all this b/c I just have a vision for how great things can be. Bet we could even write a book and get paid! Lol. The one thing I think I can probably say is that God had to get my attention b/c I was just floating through life. I just sent out my sermon notes from yesterday and there's a part where he talked about getting people out of your ear to hear him and I felt like he was shooting right at me. I think that's what had to happen for me. I listened to so much background noise over the years I lost sight of how things are supposed to be. So he took it all from me. Your website, traveling the world, talking track online, always being on the scene, desires I no longer have (clubbing, drinking, female convos, etc.). Rock bottom so I'd look up. And I did.
In the process of me sending that, she was finding out that the airlines lost her bags so she didn't ever respond to what I said. We went on kinda joking around about her travel situation and just casual small talk that was completely unrelated to our situation. She stopped responding all together eventually so I assumed she was sleep or something. I sent her a message saying I hoped she made it ok to her hotel.
Yesterday morning (Tues, July 12th), she responded saying she got to her hotel and went to sleep right away the night before. That was around 9am my time and I didn't hear from her again all day. Around 5pm my time I realized she was probably getting ready for bed where she is (they are 7 hours ahead of us) and so I thought about one of the things she mentioned she was struggling with and that was motivation. I decided I'd try to give her some comfort in that area but not as it pertained to us but rather to her athletic career. I told her I recognized she put her body through the paces training each day and that by her successes of this season she seemed to be on her way and to know that she was capable of achieving those goals. I sent her a couple scriptures about motivation and some that pertained directly to running.
She thanked me for sending it to her and sent me a smiley face. I told her she didn't have to thank me but that she was welcome all the same. She then responded:
I'm happy to still have my friend. Good night.
I didn't really want to address the friend part because although I'm happy we're somewhat speaking much more pleasantly and we are at least communicating, I didn't want to give confirmation to any idea that I only want us to be friends. I just responded
Good night. Sleep well and peaceful.
That was yesterday around 5pm and I haven't heard from her since.
I'm conflicted because in some ways I see some signs of life there but I also know I can't get too up or too down. I've stopped the "snooping" and I think that has helped my mind be a bit at ease but I guess I just don't know "what to do next." I want to just sit and see if she reaches out to me but it seems like I rarely get communication from her now and when I do, it is typically just short responses to what I've sent her.
So I don't really know how I should operate. In the DR it talks about when you say "I love you" it is counterproductive because your S doesn't respond or gets mad. Well the times I've said it, she responds "I love you too." It's hard to show her I'm GAL when she can't see me. She said she notices changes but that the changes frustrate her. I didn't really full on take the bait and say "well let's be together then!" but I did let her know that I am here and I am understanding of how she feels. Not sure what to do in this instance. Since I'm not checking up on her phone records and things of that sort I don't know if she's communicating with the OM while she is overseas.
Thoughts?
^ (Because of moderation my post is buried on page 6 or something)
I've now had my second phone coaching session with Leni and it went pretty well I think.
I'm trying to assess things that have worked and things that have not to this point.
I am looking for the small victories in belief that they'll lead to the larger ones. Since my wife is still in Europe until August, I've only been able to communicate with her via text.
She admitted that she's noticed the changes I've made so I consider that a small victory (even though she says those changes now frustrate her).
She also confided in me about some pain she was feeling due to a death of a high school friend this past Friday.
I had a friend suggest I watch the movie Fireproof since my faith is extremely important to me so while also incorporating the DR methods, I've also been trying to incorporate some of the principles from Fireproof and the Love Dare that it centered around.
I tried to do something kind for her on Sunday and basically all that amounted to was trying to make her laugh. I know she has been stressed during all of this as well so I just texted her an inside joke that we share and she responded with laughter. Later in the evening I checked on her to see how her day was going and she indicated she was in bed. I told her to have a nice evening and said to her "I love you more." She thanked me for wishing her well and said "I love you too."
I haven't heard from her since and so I guess I'm partially struggling with whether or not I should be reaching out to her or if I should just go stagnant and let her come to me. She has seemed responsive, even if our communication is relatively short but maybe I'll go a day or two and see if she contacts me. Thoughts?
Struggling with not reaching out to her via text. Saw she was logged on skype for an extended period of time today after telling me the internet was bad where she was. She never contacted me....
Still journaling some.
I woke up with a heavy heart. I prayed and listened to some gospel music in my office trying to clear my head some. I called and talk to my parents in hopes of finding some comfort. I was wrestling with whether or not I should contact her because I knew she had a race today but wasn't sure what time or anything because she had not contacted me at all yesterday and I didn't contact her either. I finally decided it was best that I stay true to myself and reach out to her via text. Our conversation went as follows:
Me: I think you compete today but I'm not really sure. I'm praying for you and your health and want you to know I believe in you. I know you'll do great. No response to my message is requested or required. I know you've expressed concern over some things on the track but just do your part. That's all you can ever do. Galatians 6:9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Deuteronomy 31:6 Be strong and courageous. Do not be afraid or terrified because of them, for the Lord your God goes with you; he will never leave you nor forsake you. Have a wonderful day.
Vet: I've been a little nervous about the race..But I decided before bed last night to let go. And OWN IT!
Me: I can see how you would be nervous but I think you have the right attitude about it.
Vet: Yea
Me: Don't forget that you've been here and done that. You got this.
Vet: And had a rough practice the other day. But its all good.That's before I let go.
Me: Right. That's practice. That's what it is for.
Vet: Yep
Me: I didn't want to keep or distract you. Like I said, you didn't have to respond. Just wanted you to have some encouragement, both from me and the word and know I'm behind you 110%
I've been avoiding "snooping" so I haven't been checking phone records, emails, twitter or facebook lately so that I wouldn't find anything I didn't want to see. Unfortunately, a mutual friend of ours quoted something that the OM said and it popped up on my Twitter timeline...he was basically wishing my W and the mutual friend well in their race today. The mutual friend quoted what OM said and thanked him. I don't think she knows about the A. The only way OM could know to wish them well is by my W and OM having convo still and my W mentioning that she was running today...so I guess it's safe to assume they still are in contact.
I have not brought up OM to W since she's been gone (she left for Europe on July 6th) and don't intend to now either. In June, W mentioned OM was asking about coming to Europe to see her at a meet and with OM being in the NFL, I guess it would be nothing for him to pay for a flight. Supposedly that was going to be this coming weekend but W and I never discussed it again.
It's just tough because even when I make it a point to avoid all of that stuff intentionally for my own sanity, it finds me somehow. Now I'm back wondering if I should have ever contacted her in the first place or if I should continue to just control me and not worry about everything else. I am leaning heavily on my faith here so I pray continually for the restoration but just have trouble making sense of it all. I doubt I'm going to message her anymore today unless she reaches back out to me but I just don't know what to do.
mgm32,
The snooping isn't going to serve any purpose except twist you up further. You already know the worst, so its basically masochistic if you keep doing it.
Can you save your marriage?
Short answer? Yes.
Get Divorce Remedy and read it.
Fireproof?
The movie, not something I'd recommend watching with the wife.
It's touching and sweet and if your life WAS a movie, it might work.
Basically, you have seen her react positively toward you, what were you doing when those things happened?
Patterns, find patterns between your actions and her reactions.
I HOPE more people start dropping by, as for moderation...
DB can you unmod him?
Click notify and ask her. : )
Jack,
Thanks for responding. I've stopped snooping for some time now so I definitely am on the same page with you there. I've read Divorce Remedy and I think I'm about to start it again. I watched Fireproof alone. W is in Europe and won't be back until August (and even then will only be here for about 10 days before going to Korea to compete in the World Championships). I haven't mentioned anything to her about Fireproof and don't intend to.
As far as when she reacts positively, it's usually after I send her a scripture and/or pray for her. Before she left for Europe on the 6th, she would say to me every now and then "who are you?" in reference to the "new" me. That being said, I don't want to just continue to over extend myself so I try to kind of contact her every other day and not a whole lot.
After she ran I messaged her to ask how it went. She was on a relay and they didn't do well so we discussed it via text. It was strictly track talk...until I felt the need to ask her something.
ME: Can I ask you something?
W: Yes
ME: Am I doing too much? I feel like I'm contacting you and I have trouble reading whether or not its welcomed or just tolerated, if that makes sense.
W: I mean.. Its just conversation. I don't know what to say to that.
ME: I guess I'm saying it doesn't seem like you're too interested in the conversations. So it may totally be on me, but I feel like I'm stepping on your toes and maybe you're just appeasing me because you never contact me wanting to talk. And if that's the case, I'm ok with that. I guess I'm just trying to understand better what you need from me. If that ends up being to just give you complete space and radio silence I can do that. Or if you'd rather just contact me if you feel like it that works too. I just find myself always wondering if I "messed up" when I message you.
W: I've just been trying to focus that's al. Its a lot on my plate..
ME: Our convos are all through text, very short and mainly just a thanks here and there for me checking on you or something I sent...if that's too much or unwelcomed, that's ok too...I just don't wanna be smothering you...that's all. If they're short and few and far between because that's how you want it, I just need to know that so that I can do what is best for you and your feelings.
W: Haven't been feeling the greatest. Been so tired.. And I have to perform. So I'm just trying to make it
ME: Well I did mean it when I said you're my best friend. And if I can help you in anyway, I'd like to. That being said, if I'm contributing to you not feeling so hot, I'd like to reverse that and if that means backing off, cool. I send you scriptures and prayers in hopes they are able to say and speak to your feelings in ways I can't but if those are adding to your plate, I'm just saying I'm willing to take them off.
W: The communication we have is fine
ME: Basically, I won't stop praying and supporting you no matter what so if me reaching out and checking on you makes it tougher for you to focus, I have no problem in stopping whatever it is I may be causing. I just don't really know what you're thinking so I find myself guessing at ways I can be there for you and help you in the way you ACTUALLY need and not the way I THINK you need.
W: Everything is fine. Stop reading into stuff so much. If I didn't want to talk when I do.. I wouldn't.
ME: I understand. I was actually trying to keep from reading too much into anything...that's why I asked instead of speculating. But I see how I came off the way I asked. Wasn't my intention.
W: Its ok
We then started talking about what she was up to (she said checking her email but I saw she was logged in to Skype...she still hasn't called me since the 9th). The conversation shifted to her sister who is pregnant and I mentioned I wanted a child and wondered what kind of father I'd be. She said I'd be a great dad. We joked around for a bit after that. I told her I'd have to adopt and so we kind of had some fun with that. I mentioned wanting to visit Africa some day and she said "Yea I think I'll want to go there one day."
Then our convo ended like this:
W: Sorry so short. Dosing off a bit
ME: Its cool. Before you go, is there anything on this end I can do for you? Anything you need me to check on or help with?
W: Not that I can think of. Not in the right frame of mind to think now anyway. Feel like a zombie
ME: Well I won't be responsible for zombiness anymore than I already have been. We know how you get when hungry or sleepy. Don't drool too much and cut back on the snoring if you have a roommate. Sweet dreams.
W: Lol! I'll try. Night!
So there's positives there I think. Haven't pushed any R or M talk. Nothing too heavy. Light hearted to an extent. But now I'm kind of back where I always end up. When do I contact her next....or DO I contact her next. She said she was ok with our communication but it's so sporadic and is pretty much based on me starting the conversation. After reading DR, one of my goals is for her to want to and actually contact me. Kind of open up about something, ANYTHING, without me having the be the one to initiate.
(What do you mean by notify? I tried to send a PM but it wouldn't let me)
I'm posting this at 8:47pm CST. My guess it it won't show until sometime around lunch tomorrow and by that time it'll be pushed to page 2-4 (not complaining with any kind of tone...just frustrating when looking to get some guidance about "where I am")
mgm... Eventually the crew will get over here and start chatting with you about your sitch.
You've posted a lot and sometimes that can overwhelm people.
I get that we need to vent and get stuff out and that's great. Once you've settled in, posting smaller threads, smaller paragraphs, simple thoughts, one at a time...
This is a slow process, so things can be worked through a thought at a time... It's called a marathon because most often, the only friend you have at the start is time...
mgm - I am going to agree with KD. You may get more responses if you can break it down into smaller, more manageable chunks.
This is a slow process, so things can be worked through a thought at a time... It's called a marathon because most often, the only friend you have at the start is time...
This is true. I didn't believe it at first. My W was on the fast track to D. She was hoping to done in a couple months. 5 months later, I'm still here.
It's kind of like a sinister marathon. One without mile markers, course map, and with multiple finish lines.
I read through your situation. One positive I've noticed is she is noticing your changes. I think it's OK for her to be frustrated by them. There's also the possibility she hasn't had enough time to trust them yet.
I know early on in my situation, I would pray for and with my W as well. I am still not sure how receptive she really was to it. I think there was a mixture of appreciation, conviction, and resentment. I saw the comment from dbmod, and you may want to be a little careful that she doesn't feel pressure from you pushing your faith on her.
KD and jbnati - Thank you both. Sorry for the overload. It's just been a lot at once and I was trying to give as much info as possible to help folks maybe assess the situation. I'll do my best to start condensing.
I agree about trying to not push my faith on her. It's tough but I know it is necessary.
Today she is traveling and didn't bother to message me before taking off or letting me know where she's headed. I saw her BBM (BlackBerry Messenger) status saying she was headed to Monaco. It also said "Reunited and it feels so good!" Of course this could be her just being excited about being back in Monaco but my mind is wondering if OM is going there since he asked her about it a month ago.
The other tough part is she and I went there together last summer so there are the memories.
I think I'm going to do my best to refrain from contacting her today. I definitely don't want to pressure her but it is extremely tough for me to just remain silent. Is there harm in me continuing the every-other-day contact if it's just in the form of "How are you doing?" and not R or M talk? She's been receptive thus far but the toughest part is while that kind of sparse communication is OK for her, it really isn't for me. I just feel like I'm sending out a questionnaire repeatedly and she's filling it in with responses but there is no depth to the convos unless I provide it. I'm also going to start re-reading DR today and see if I can get some more perspective from it.
I agree about trying to not push my faith on her. It's tough but I know it is necessary.
Yes, I know it's tough. You know that if she were to have that foundation in place, the chances that everything else will come around are a lot greater.
Of course this could be her just being excited about being back in Monaco but my mind is wondering if OM is going there since he asked her about it a month ago.
For YOU, you can't focus on this.
The other tough part is she and I went there together last summer so there are the memories.
I can empathize with you on this one. I just took the family vacation a month ago without my W to the exact same place, condo, and bed that we stayed in last year. It's likely tough for her, too. She will probably never show you this though.
Is there harm in me continuing the every-other-day contact if it's just in the form of "How are you doing?" and not R or M talk? She's been receptive thus far but the toughest part is while that kind of sparse communication is OK for her, it really isn't for me. I just feel like I'm sending out a questionnaire repeatedly and she's filling it in with responses but there is no depth to the convos unless I provide it.
It sounds like the contact is for you. You need to your own needs aside right now. You don't want to appear needy to her - it's unattractive. She needs the opportunity to miss you. Since she has filed for D, you're in LRT territory. You may benefit from taking a step back. JMO
I think about my situation way too often. The GAL'ing seems to help tremendously though. I also think about a lot of the good times we've had and I long for those times again - sometimes. I know I don't want to go back to the old M.
This is where I struggle the most jb. I haven't been able to go through all your old threads but how do you stop focusing on it?
I want to GAL but so many things that I enjoy(ed) we did together or somehow my sitch has stolen some of that joy. For example, I LOVE football but the OM is in the NFL so now football is disgusting to me. I like to jetski but W and I jetski together usually and on one of her trips to see OM, they went jetskiing.
What do you think has been the key for you to start and continue to GAL? It may be different since I have no kids but I WANT to desperately, I just have a tough time with it.
I think it's hardest to get started. Brainstorm about things that either you haven't done in awhile and would like to pick up again or things you've always wanted to try but never have. I think it tends to build on itself and gather momentum as time goes along. One thing I've is I signed up for just about everything I thought I could do through my church. All healthy activities, even if they're outside of my comfort zone. Plus, I am building new, heatlthy relationships with people.
I definitely am trying to find more church activities to get into. My biggest issue right now is that I'm in graduate school so I have night class 8-10pm Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was in a men's group that met every Wed night until summer started. Luckily I'll get to get back into that on August 3rd. I'm involved in Big Brothers Big Sisters but even that has been difficult because my Little often asks about W. We joined as a Big Couple. I don't want to let my Little down so I continue trying to be there for him even though W hasn't contacted him in months now.
I've found myself also questioning whether or not I'm just masking by activities. I had a stretch where the last 3 weekends I went somewhere every weekend. Once to DC, once to Houston and another time to visit family in Austin. I found myself feeling like I was running from my problems and the dreaded thought of being in a big empty house alone. That's what it feels like now. A house, not a home.
I'm actually staying upstairs in a guest bedroom even though she is gone. Staying in the master just doesn't feel right and she took down all of our wedding pictures and replaced them with a picture of her grandparents and her HS diploma.
I've found myself also questioning whether or not I'm just masking by activities. I had a stretch where the last 3 weekends I went somewhere every weekend. Once to DC, once to Houston and another time to visit family in Austin. I found myself feeling like I was running from my problems and the dreaded thought of being in a big empty house alone. That's what it feels like now. A house, not a home.
I think part if it is "faking" it, at first - of course you don't want to do stuff. I don't. I want to sit home and eat ice cream and cry. But the more you do, the less you dwell on it, and the less you dwell on it the more you do and .. it gets better and easier.
Or at least, that's what I hear. I haven't actually gotten to that stage yet. I'm still in the 'crying, ice cream' stage.
I definitely am trying to find more church activities to get into. My biggest issue right now is that I'm in graduate school so I have night class 8-10pm Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was in a men's group that met every Wed night until summer started. Luckily I'll get to get back into that on August 3rd. I'm involved in Big Brothers Big Sisters but even that has been difficult because my Little often asks about W. We joined as a Big Couple. I don't want to let my Little down so I continue trying to be there for him even though W hasn't contacted him in months now.
Sounds like you have a good start. I would count the grad school as GAL'ing - you're getting out of the house. Stick with the BBBS thing. Proabably the worst thing you can do right now is stay alone in an empty house.
mgm, man, I feel for you, I really do.
You need to back WAY off.
You're head is spinning, and it will continue to for as long as you try to control the situation.
What is your true motivation behind sending her all the scriptures?
Do you think it will "awaken" her?
I know how hard it is, and I know it will take many times before it sinks in. Just keep getting bits at a time.
For now, until you pull yourself out of the funk, until you start being the man you want to be, it will be extremely painful.
Do whatever you can to treat yourself well right now. Get yourself healthy.
Sounds like you have a good start. I would count the grad school as GAL'ing - you're getting out of the house. Stick with the BBBS thing. Proabably the worst thing you can do right now is stay alone in an empty house.
The reason grad school doesn't feel like GAL'ing is because I'm still so consumed with it in my thoughts. I literally can be sitting in accounting or marketing and start thinking of her. I somehow made a 99 on my marketing exam and the first person I wanted to share it with was her but then I also knew I "couldn't."
Yeah, I hear ya. Been there. Congratulations on the 99, BTW! It's kind of like GAL'ing, but it's really not much different than going to work.
Ha! Well get this! I WORK in the undergraduate department of the College of Business at the University I'm doing my MBA in. So I literally advise undergrads all day, close the door to my office, change clothes, sometimes nap or work on schoolwork (or here lately, read) and then go to class. I'm on campus (which is my place of work) from 8am until 10:15pm Monday through Thursday.
Like you said. Not much different from work.
mgm, man, I feel for you, I really do.
You need to back WAY off.
You're head is spinning, and it will continue to for as long as you try to control the situation.
What is your true motivation behind sending her all the scriptures?
Do you think it will "awaken" her?
I know how hard it is, and I know it will take many times before it sinks in. Just keep getting bits at a time.
For now, until you pull yourself out of the funk, until you start being the man you want to be, it will be extremely painful.
Do whatever you can to treat yourself well right now. Get yourself healthy.
Country,
Thanks for your words. I struggle with the answer to the question you asked me internally. On one hand I feel like it is still my duty as a husband to be a spiritual covering for my wife. On another hand, subconsciously I want her to see my deepened faith and either be "awakened" by it or notice the change within me. I know the latter of those two motivations is definitely not the right way to go about it but I have to be honest and recognize that is partially why I had been doing it. The reason I truly want to always be the case is that I want to provide her encouragement as well during this...if she says her hamstring is sore, I try to find something that will give her some comfort other than the old version of me telling her everything she needs to do to prevent it (one of my flaws: I'm a fixer)...and maybe that is where I'm failing. I still think so much about her feelings because in a sense, I feel like that is my obligation as a husband (at least according to my faith).
It's interesting because I just got back from bible study at my church during my lunch and I came to the realization that spiritually, I haven't truly given my situation to God because I keep on trying to change it. I've said all the right things and my heart is in the right place but I've kept my "hands" on the sitch through my actions. In truth, I thinking "letting go and letting God" is basically LRT. Backing off, not only for my piece of mind but also so that God can actually handle the sitch. I'm not sure how much religious talk is "allowed" on the boards so I don't mean to step on any toes but in all honesty my faith is more important to me than anything now so it is hard for me to NOT speak from that basis.
So I'm now committing to trying to pull myself out of the funk. I plan to use this to kind of vent when I want to reach out and maybe even digitally journal the progression of things but listening to all of your stories and words of wisdom is encouragement that no matter what, I'll be ok. Obviously I want to be ok with my wife but I guess it's just coming to grips with the fact that it simply will not be on my time.
Pulling just ONE thing out of the above...
Being a fixer is not necessarily a flaw...
It's just... you can't "fix" your W... understand...?
You can "fix" the toilet, you can "fix" the car, you can "fix" the books... well, don't do that, it's probably illegal...
You can "fix" you... but only in the context of you...
So be a fixer... and fix things... make that part of your GAL that has absolutely NOTHING to do with your W or your M...
I guess I understand what you mean KD. I meant to say the flaw is me trying to "fix" my W. That's what I know I need to focus on is me but that's also my biggest struggle is realizing I can't change my W and being "ok" with that.
Sure, I get what you mean by it being a flaw... let me put it to you another way...
Wanting to "fix" your wife is not a flaw. You love her... You want her to be well, and happy, and all those things that we all want for our spouses... that's human... and of course, you want to "fix" her so that she'll decide to stay with you... that's normal, as well.
While it's semantics, wanting your W to be happy and stay with you is natural.
Here's the thing, because it could be seen and done in a manipulative way, and that is not so good.
The two of you liked each other, once. She fell in love with you... Leopards don't change their spots, although they might fade over time a bit...
Who were you back when you met your W? When you were courting her? How have you "changed"? (You may need to dig to figure that out) And what can you do to be that person again and then be so much more...?
Make sense?
Makes perfect sense. And in a sense I can't go back to some of those things I was when we met because at the time I was just an immature 19 year old kid in college but I get what you're saying.
I've done some internal digging and tried to get back to the root of some of who "I am." In other regards, I'm also just at a different phase in life where many of the superficial things that once mattered to me don't anymore.
But I think I understand fully what you're saying. I definitely don't want to come off as manipulative and that is certainly not my intent. There are changes I've made and want to continue to make, not just to "get her back" but because they are the right thing to do and they will make me a better person.
The one thing I'm pretty confident of is that the people that actually have her ear are probably trying to convince her that these "changes" are temporary. It is always good to have sound counsel around you and I just can say she has that right now...her family included. She's "living the life" right now so to speak and with her being so far away and basically not giving a damn about what is going on in my world, it's hard for her to "see" for herself on a daily basis and be able to actual judge the situation.
Nice. So when following your journey (unexpected, but a journey for you, nonetheless), these would be GAL and 180s which will be for your benefit...
And if the secondary benefit is your W finds that attractive and wants to take another look at staying M... then at least you can make that choice if it happens and you still want it...
And yes, the WAS will see our changes as temporary, for any number of reasons. Which is why it's so important that these changes "stick", rather than "trick". They are for us and for real and permanent.
And here's what's cool...
she might be "
living the life"...
but you are...
Living Life...
two VERY different things...
So I'm now committing to trying to pull myself out of the funk. I plan to use this to kind of vent when I want to reach out and maybe even digitally journal the progression of things but listening to all of your stories and words of wisdom is encouragement that no matter what, I'll be ok.
Sounds like a plan.
Let her go.
Work on yourself.
Don't worry at all right now if she sees the changes. One, it is too early for her to care, and two, you're not ready. Just keep doing the work for now. It should be plenty to keep you busy.
If you feel like contacting her. Post here.
If you feel angry. Post here.
If you feel sad. Post here.
Not doing too well tonight. I feel silly sometimes because I'm nowhere near as far along in my process as many of the DBers on the board. I feel like I'm just complaining. It's hard for me to understand how my W has been able to just keep on trucking along and smiling for pictures to update on her statuses and stuff and here I am in complete shambles. My ego is hurt too because I know she's just telling people who ask about us that we're going through a divorce and of course she leaves the part out about what she's doing out.
I talked to a friend the other day who was wondering what was going on and he was honest with me that he really felt at first glance that I had done something. It just [censored] that people that have been apart of our lives will be looking at me as if I did something. She chooses to leave as many people in the dark with this whole thing as possible. I think she honestly thought it was just going to be a quick process to get me out of her life and she'd just get to keep it moving. Now it's like she expects me to keep her secret or something and when bits of the situation starts to come out, she blames me for people knowing.
I find myself looking back on this process and wondering if I messed up talking to anyone about it (initially I was just trying to find help from anyone that could send it my way) and she even has me wondering if I made a mistake taking money from one of our accounts when I realized she was shutting me off from them. I guess I'm just hearing her voice in my head telling me "every time I got ready to or thought about coming back...." - essentially she blames me for the reason why she can't turn around. First it was me talking to people. Then it was because I wrote a letter trying to draw a line in the sand. Then it was the money. It's always one thing after the next.
I guess I had a small victory today though. I refrained from messaging her. Gotta start somewhere I guess.
Are there any successful stories of H's who had W's have an affair, file for D and the H was able to successfully DB? Preferably I'm trying to find some stories with no kids. The reason I say this is as tough as I'm sure it is, it seems like the people with kids still HAVE to have some interaction with their S and as a result, the S is able to see what they're missing at times and have some involvement. In my sitch, no kids means no real reason for her to contact me. And she doesn't. Just trying to figure out how to DB while thousands of miles away and only communicating via text.
It's hard for me to understand how my W has been able to just keep on trucking along and smiling for pictures to update on her statuses and stuff and here I am in complete shambles.
It's highly unlikely this is not affecting her like she's portraying on the outside.
It sounds like you're spending too much time worrying about what she is doing ot not doing. You can't control what she does. You can only control yourself.
Don't second guess yourself either. What's done is done. You have an opportunity every day now to make the right decisions. You won't be perfect. None of are. We all make mistakes along the way.
You're formulating a good game plan. Stick with it.
I guess I had a small victory today though. I refrained from messaging her. Gotta start somewhere I guess.
Good job. I know that was difficult for you.
I feel silly sometimes because I'm nowhere near as far along in my process as many of the DBers on the board
You just started! Look at the timelines on this board. This takes TIME.
Understandable. So, don't identify yourself with your ego.
people that have been apart of our lives will be looking at me as if I did something.
You are not your ego, and you are also not what people think of you.
I find myself looking back on this process and wondering
The past only has the power we give it. It has no power of it's own.
I guess I'm just hearing her voice in my head telling me "every time I got ready to or thought about coming back...." - essentially she blames me for the reason why she can't turn around. First it was me talking to people. Then it was because I wrote a letter trying to draw a line in the sand. Then it was the money. It's always one thing after the next.
It is bad enough to listen to our own voice in our head. Don't listen to hers.
I guess I had a small victory today though. I refrained from messaging her. Gotta start somewhere I guess.
Good start.
Look, this is only my opinion. And I admit, it has changed a lot over the course of my own journey.
You cannot even really begin this process until you really let yourself accept the facts, and then let yourself look at them for what they are.
Don't "dwell," but understand. Accept what is.
Then, you are in a position to act with sound mind.
To be more blunt for a minute, the texts, the friendliness, the telling her this, telling her that, it will not help. She in an active A. That just is. That is acceptance.
Let me ask you this, if you were having an active A, and your W knew. How would you perceive your actions if the roles were reversed?
What would you consider to be strong and confident?
True love can be shown in many different ways. Trying to change her mind through 'antics' does not show true love. It shows insecurity, lack of acceptance, lack of confidence, etc, etc.
I believe you do really love this women, that is why I think most of us are here. What we often learn though, is a very different way in expressing it.
There is a powerful part in DR, and I am going to paraphrase and I am sure butcher it, but here I go.
The part talks about becoming ourselves again. That this depression, this sorrow, this insecurity, this is NOT us. This is reacting to a situation. This is because we are attached to the situation, but it is not US.
So, I guess to summarize this post that I never expected to be so long.
Find yourself again. That is the first step. You can not improve YOU. Until you find YOU.
Following on from what country posted, I posted something like below on johnnie1 thread, hope it can help
DETATCH, DETATCH, DETATCH
Bloody hard, but you MUST DO IT, or work to it. Do not try to do it, do it....... Trying presupposes failure, so as Yoda says, "no, try not, do or do not, there is no try"
Let go of what you have no control over, you control YOU. Ask yourself these questions (these are some of the ones I asked myself)
1) Who is mgm?
What I mean by this is not the person you had became, not the person you were at the end of the marriage, and not the person you portray now, but who is the real mgm, what wonderful traits did you have when you first met W, what makes you tick. Think who you really are. You are a lot more confident deep down aren’t you.
2) Acceptance (this is just the start of this one!)
Recognise your faults, how you contributed to the failure of the marriage. Acknowledge them, accept them and own them. Learn from them, but don't dwell on them. Only then will you be able to forgive yourself and others and move forward.
3) What do you want? (Different to need, but some may be the same)
You only get one chance at life, and most experts say one major f up/mistake. What do you want out of life? What makes you happy? Where do you want to be? What vision do you have for this? How will you get to this vision?
4) GAL
How can you enjoy life, think of activities on your own, with friends etc etc etc
Do what works, do not do what does not work, like the books and good peps here say
Say to yourself over and over to start believing it, “no matter what happens I can handle it”
[quote]Let me ask you this, if you were having an active A, and your W knew. How would you perceive your actions if the roles were reversed?
What would you consider to be strong and confident?
True love can be shown in many different ways. Trying to change her mind through 'antics' does not show true love. It shows insecurity, lack of acceptance, lack of confidence, etc, etc.
I try to ask myself that and I guess it is so difficult for me because despite my own faults I just truly can not picture myself putting her through what she is putting me through. That being said, for the sake of role playing, I'd probably be wondering what was my W thinking and surely she had to be a fool...but I think I would only be thinking that way because I was "that far gone" and in a pretty bad place myself.
And I suppose the last portion is what I'm starting to get...at least I think. I'm showing her that I'll take her back no matter what. That I'm here. That I NEED her. While OM is probably able to show a persona that is much less "needy." As a result, she doesn't respect me and thinks I'm a begger and who wants to be with someone that is like that.
So I get what you're saying Country. I have to get back to being a confident person in myself. Being true to myself...somewhat independent of her. My sitch, despite how long it may progress, is only temporary. The pain, the depression, the sadness...that stuff doesn't define me so I can't operate like it does.
Do what works, do not do what does not work, like the books and good peps here say
Say to yourself over and over to start believing it, “no matter what happens I can handle it”
Real sound info all around. I especially like the last part. For whatever reason, I just continue to beat up on myself and I have got to stop doing that. My mom used to tell me there are enough people who will kick you in life when you're down, no use in kicking yourself.
I've been through things in the past that, at the time, I felt were the hardest thing I'd ever been through and yet I came out on the other side of it and I'm still here. This thing won't break me.
Ok...so there's a development and I'm not quite sure what to do with it. My grandfather and my W always had a great relationship and it has pained him that she hasn't reached out to him during this process. It is natural that she wouldn't IMO. She doesn't want to deal with the guilt.
Well yesterday, my grandfather (we, including my W, call him PawPaw) tells me he called and left her a voicemail. He told me he said to her "Hey W, I hope you're doing well. This is PawPaw. Just wanted you to know that whatever happens with this thing you'll always have a special place in my heart and you'll always be my #1 granddaughter-in-law. Take care. Love you." Now the irony in this is that my W is his ONLY granddaughter-in-law but you get my point. I wasn't upset or anything when he told me because he's grown and he can do as he pleases and I didn't really see anything wrong with the message. I didn't instruct him to do it (although I could see how she might perceive it that way). Anyways...here's the development part.
This morning (about 30 minutes ago) she just text messaged me:
"Your PawPaw called me at some point yesterday. Left me a voicemail. I appreciate he and your mom reaching out."
Now earlier in the process (back in May), I know my mom reached out to her via text in similar fashion. I guess I just don't know if I should respond and if I do, how.
Part of me wants to let her know I didn't ask them to do that because I didn't. Part of me wants to ask what was said (even though I think I know what my grandfather said). I don't know. This is the first time she has contacted me on her own and not just been responding to something I've sent but it's about something in particular. Should I respond and if so, how?
. This is the first time she has contacted me on her own and not just been responding to something I've sent but it's about something in particular.
This may be partially a result of you not reaching out to her yesterday.
IMO, and some others may disagree and/or have some better ideas, you can go ahead and respond, but keep it simple - just express your surprise and let her know you will tell them she appreciated it.
That's kind of what I was thinking jb. Initially I wanted to just respond "I'll let them know" but I thought that would come off as being an a**. I still have yet to respond and I think she called me (I have a missed call from an unknown number and when she calls from skype, that is how it shows up) and she also messaged me again saying "Hello" since I've yet to respond to her first message.
mgm,
I know you want hope, and specific hope, like are there success stories about a guy who is working on his degree while his wife is a...professional athlete who is having an affair with another professional athlete, and they don't have kids...
Look, you were an athlete yourself I'm thinking big team sport, well this is more like wrestling. You'll get alot of support from the bench, but it's you alone on that mat.
Be your own hero.
Become that success story others look for.
Don't look at the odds, you KNOW what it takes to have a winner's mind set.
FWIW, I saw an analogy here once between the wayward spouse and a little kid / parent situation. When a little kid runs for their parents and the parent chases them, it is fun. However, when the parent stops the chase, the kid will come back to the parent.
It sounds like you are getting fairly quick results from laying off the contact.
Keep an eye on the situation, though. One of the core points of DB'ing is "Do what works. Don't do what doesn't work".
Jack,
You're right...I was a team sport guy...football and we even won a national championship...so I love the team work around here on these forums...but I also had teammates and coaches who would sometimes slap me on the helmet and say I had to get it together...and in a sense I feel like that's what you're helping me do.
It's not all going to be wrapped up in a box with a nice little outline for me to follow. I need to realize there's no sitch exactly the same as mine. I'm hoping...no...I'm confident I'll build my own success story.
I decided to go ahead and respond. This is what I sent her:
"Honestly that's pretty surprising to me. I wasn't aware of that. I hope whatever he said didn't cause you frustration or distraction. I'll let him know you got his message." She responded "Not at all...Made me teary eyed... Both of them."
Now this is where I may have gone further than I initially planned but I said "Both? I assumed when you said my mom you meant back when she messaged you in May."
She said my mom actually texted her yesterday. I told her I had no clue again and that my mom hadn't shared that with me.
She sent me the message my mother sent her:
"Hello W, how are you? I literally woke up last night with you very much on my mind. I wanted to check on you then but decided I should not. But since I still feel this way I'm taking a chance. I hope that it is ok to contact you. This has been difficult for me because it is like you vanished. My love for you is as a daughter and it just doesn't work to act as if you don't exist. By the way I did not share with anyone that I contacted you."
My mother and W had a very close relationship so this has been very trying on her...particularly because I haven't given my mother details on anything...she has no idea about the EA and PA. I apologized to my W if my mother's text made her uncomfortable and told her I don't share details with her or my grandfather and that is likely why they reached out on their own. My grandfather is visiting my mother in Austin right now so I'm guessing they must have talked yesterday and then both ended up reaching out.
W responded to my "apology" on my mom's behalf (which I probably shouldn't have done but oh well now) by saying "Its really not a problem. Just didn't want to not tell you."
I responded "Ok. Hope you're well. Have a good day." She said "I'm doing ok. I hope all is well with you as well. Sorry to bother you." Then she cracked a joke about something she saw on tv. I told her she wasn't a bother. That I'd just got back from church and lunch and then I followed up on her joke. Convo ended by her laughing at my last remark in reference to the joke.
So it seems not reaching out "worked." When I didn't respond to her right away this morning she got anxious and messaged me to see if I got her first message. When I attempted to end the convo by saying have a good day, she felt the need to say "sorry to bother you." I took the bait a bit and told her she was no bother...I suppose I could have just not said anything to that. A light hearted convo followed to which I didn't keep going by asking more questions (even though I want to know how her training is going and when she runs again). I'm going to stick with this and see how it goes. It seems my mom and grandpa reaching out impacted her some kind of way and so it's hard to tell if she would have messaged me today had they not contacted her but all the same, with the weekend coming I'm finding a few projects I want to work on anyways in hopes of keeping me busy and I'm going to a DivorceCare group at church on Sunday.
And jb...I like what you said and it helps the sanity. I've got to stop chasing.
Went to get a massage at 5pm today. I'd left my computer on and signed in to skype...when I came back at around 6:15pm tonight my W had sent me a message (timestamp was 5:11pm) that said nothing more than "Hi."
I responded around 6:20pm and said "Hi" but she was probably sleep by then. Not sure what to make of that. She's messaged me on her own fruition twice today. That's a first...in a long time. Gotta keep pressing forward though. Still so early in my process (only 3 months in since it began) that I don't want to get too up or too down over these kinds of things.
I don't want to get too up or too down over these kinds of things
Good realization.
This may be a tough one for a while.
Along with this is the 'what does this mean?'
It means she sent a message that said 'hi'
Now it would be the pot calling the kettle black if I were to say I don't have a problem over analyzing things.
But realize it serves no purpose.
If she decides to make a move back towards the M, you'll know.
Sorry this post is going to be a little long. The last 24 hours or so have been interesting. Last night I decided to go out. I went out with some friends and had a pretty good time. Before going out I got a message from my W.
W: Hope I didn't cause an issue with u, ur mom and your paw paw. Sorry if I did. Night.
Me: No issue. Night. I didn't bring it up to my mom or PawPaw so there's no issue.
About 4am she messages me (it's 11am where she is in Europe).
W: Thanks for being my friend.. I really need a real one these days."
I woke up at around 730am and responded.
Me: You're welcome...but as I told you before...I'm here. You could "use" me more than you do.
W: Lol "use"
Me: Just saying I'm here and you can talk to me when you need to. I've become a much better listener believe it or not.
W: I believe it
So we didn't talk for the rest of the day and I got so busy I didn't really think much about her. That being said, I looked at the calendar and realized we had some legal things looming. On August 5th I'm supposed to move out of the house as laid out in the HEaring we attended on June 30th. Not worth trying to explain but she bought the house before we were married so it is only in her name.
Before she left for Europe we talked on the phone and she basically told me that since we are doing ok and being cordial and having positive convos and not knock down drag out ones, that she didn't have a problem with me staying in the house through August since she wouldn't be here for the majority of the time during August. I didn't push the issue anymore and haven't brought it up since. Well August is right around the corner so I messaged her this evening:
Me: I know it was extremely brief but when we actually talked before you left the states but on the phone you mentioned you thought it would be ok for me to stay in the house past August 5th as long as things were "ok" with us. So I guess the question here is a) is that still ok with you for me to stay in the house until I can actually get into my apt? b) if so, can you communicate that to your lawyer so we can get it in writing? I trust you but I don't want to violate a court order. And since I'd be staying in the house I wouldn't need to cash the $2k check you wrote. I'll just tear it up. I just don't wanna get hit with trespassing. I contacted the apt complex and they said I can be in the apt on Sept 15th (that's a Thurs) so if its ok for me to be out by the night of Sept 17th (a Sat) then I'd use Fri and Sat to move my stuff out (since I have work and class). Also since I'd be in the house for half of Sept we could redo whatever they said the Sept check "had" to be for. If any of this makes you uncomfortable and you'd just prefer to have me out I understand...I'll just have to figure out where to keep my stuff and where to stay for a month and a half. I'll stay out of your hair, I assure you. Just trying to avoid spending money I don't have and you being forced to spend money by the court when we can both save a little. I'm not trying to guilt you in anyway so I hope you don't feel like I am in anyway. Its just August is right around the corner and I gotta start trying to figure things out logistically.
W: That's a lot... Wow. I guess no matter where I go in the world.. There is no escaping the reality of what is going on. That's nothing personal towards you...
Me: I'm sorry. I wanted to wait until after today's meet because I wasn't sure if you were there in Monaco or running or whatever but I had to bring it up. I hope you understand the "new/updated" me has nothing to do with any of what I just asked you. When I sent all that it struck me that that may have crossed your mind. "Oh that's why he's acting this way." But its not. I'm just trying to be a better person and man so it really is authentic. This is Marcus. Some old mixed with some updates. I guess you don't have to answer the house ish today cuz we have til August 5th technically (the court move out date). But I had to bring it up and I'm sorry if I took you from a place of being able to escape it. Wasn't my intent. Maybe you let me know by August 1st? That's a Monday.
W: Sorry at this dinner...I'll respond in a bit
Me: Ok.
On top of that, my friend that runs track just came back from overseas. They were at a meet together and had to do a team building exercise. He told me that he whispered to her that he, his wife and baby missed her in their lives. He said my W basically responded and said "I know," then teared up and had to walk away before breaking down right in front of him.
I know I probably made some mistakes in my convos with her the past 24 hours but I tried to stay as neutral as possible and not put too much feeling into things. I've tried to end convos first and I've tried to end them in such a way that she would have to follow up with me to initiate more contact. I'm just not really sure what to make of this stuff. I haven't heard back from her so I guess she's at the dinner still. I'm watching a movie and may go meet up with some friends for dinner. Just kind of confused in the moment.
mgm32,
The snooping isn't going to serve any purpose except twist you up further. You already know the worst, so its basically masochistic if you keep doing it.
Can you save your marriage?
Short answer? Yes.
Get Divorce Remedy and read it.
Fireproof?
The movie, not something I'd recommend watching with the wife.
It's touching and sweet and if your life WAS a movie, it might work.
Basically, you have seen her react positively toward you, what were you doing when those things happened?
Patterns, find patterns between your actions and her reactions.
I HOPE more people start dropping by, as for moderation...
DB can you unmod him?
Click notify and ask her. : )
Yeah, I tried to unmod him (and a couple of others) a few days ago, but my internet kept going out when I clicked.
It worked. I'm unmodded now. Thanks.
If you guys and gals could check my last 2 posts from page 5 I'd appreciate it. Interested in your thoughts.
It's a LOT of words man.
Oh, and one sure way for them to be hesitant of your changes is for you to tell her you changed.
I sense that you got pretty excited about her initiating a little more contact and you overreacted. Pushed too much.
You can see by her reaction that you overwhelmed her.
All that said, never dwell in the past. Don't waste time worrying and analyzing every word. Think about it, and learn for the future.
You played college ball and won a national championship? That must take a LOT of confidence to play at that level.
(I secretly want to guess what team, I'm a football nut)
How did you see yourself when you were playing football?
How do you see yourself now?
Find the football player.
Oh, and one sure way for them to be hesitant of your changes is for you to tell her you changed.
This is very true. Just show her the changes. I know you're not in the same place with her, but you can show her just through interactions. Just do it, don't talk about it.
I sense that you got pretty excited about her initiating a little more contact and you overreacted. Pushed too much.
You can see by her reaction that you overwhelmed her.
Yes, I agree with CS. It seemed like she opened the door a bit and you just came right at her. It seemed like she started backing off toward the end of the conversation because she may have been overwhelmed.
You can do this, mgm. Slow and steady though. It's a marathon, not a sprint. Or 1st & 25 - you don't have to get all the yards back on this down - you have a couple more.
What, he got hit with a personal foul on 1st down?
Come on, I think 1st and 10 is enough.
Why not? Heck, I have days where I feel like I'm 4th & 40 and down by 3 touchdowns with 3 minutes left in the game.
Punt.
Yea I think you're both right. I did get a little excited as I saw her responding some. I have to stay a little more mellow. And it must've have been just that because I haven't heard a word from her since she was supposed to contact me after the dinner. So maybe I set things back some.
All the same, I've got to march forward. I went to dinner with a friend and his fiance this evening and we had a good time talking. I'm planning on finding some stuff to get into tomorrow just to continue to try my GAL process.
Country - I'll give you a hint...I was in college from 2002-2006 (I redshirted so I was there for 5 seasons). I don't know if you picked up on the locations I mentioned in earlier posts but that's a hint as well because I still live in the state where I grew up and went to college....
I tried punting on this thing...feel like I was just given a roughing the kicker penalty because the other team tried to take me out and now I'm back to 1st down again. But I'm going to progress and in much healthier ways.
One quick hitter - Do I attempt to reach back out and ask again about the house situation or just wait closer until August to bring it up if she doesn't mention it to me? I kind of feel like I should wait until I hear from her again because I may have overwhelmed her and don't want to add fuel to the fire.
I kind of feel like I should wait until I hear from her again because I may have overwhelmed her and don't want to add fuel to the fire.
See, you know already.
Your last convo ended with her saying she'd get back to you. Respect that, and let her. You did throw a lot at her, so give her some time.
Oh, figured it out BTW. Can't believe you played in THAT game. I remember it well (I'm a fan of the team you beat!
)
Do I attempt to reach back out and ask again about the house situation or just wait closer until August to bring it up if she doesn't mention it to me? I kind of feel like I should wait until I hear from her again because I may have overwhelmed her and don't want to add fuel to the fire.
Yes, sounds like you have the right idea. I going to go with CS on this one. Let it be for now. She needs time to process all of this. Don't reach out to her - not doing so appeared to be working well for you.
More interesting behavior from my W.
I'm watching some movies at home around 1am this morning and get a string of texts from her:
W: I'm so angry right now.
Me: ?
W: I feel like it will be easier for both of us if you weren't there when I get home. I don't want anyone around me. No man. I can't take it anymore
Me: What are you upset about?
W: I don't want to talk about it... I'm just over everything. I have to focus on me. I'm done. I can't anymore. I cannot and will not ever put myself in a situation to be let down or hurt anymore. I hate the feeling. I give up.
Me: I can understand how that can be a frightening feeling and constantly unsettling.
W: I'm tired
Me: Sleep
W: Emotionally, and physically. I'm so angry and frustrated with myself
Me: I think we're all our own worst enemy. My mom used to tell me when I was younger, enough people will kick you when you're down so there's no use in kicking yourself. Its always easier said than done of course but I think I its abnormally normal for us as humans to feel what you feel.
W: I want to finally do things the right way in my life.
Me: I'm confident that when you are determined to do something, she will do it. So whatever that entails know that I'm behind whatever that means for you in terms of support. I believe in you. Try to rest.
W: I can't
Me: Makes you feel any better you're not alone. I'm up myself. Watching some movies. Try to get some rest. Have a good night.
Didn't hear from her anymore at that point. My guess? OM did something or she found something out about OM. Maybe she was just hurt/frustrated in the moment. I'll readress the house situation on August 1st if she doesn't bring it back up. I look at it with some positivity but don't want to look too far into it because like CS once said, if she's really changed, I'll know. Right now I think maybe she just feels bad about some specific situation...isn't really at a stage of repentance and R. Then this morning she actually sent ME two Bible verses via text before she went to practice. I told her to have a great day and I hoped she was feeling a little better.
She responded she was at practice and had to get it done despite how she feels. I didn't respond. That's the last I've heard from her today.
mgm... the longer you are in this, the more you will come to see some of these... "things" that are pretty standard in WAS scenarios...
Your W started a conversation with you, that she then told you she didn't want to talk about... so... why did she contact you then?
That's rhetorical.
You engaged her and offered some level of support... that's natural... you care about her and want her to be happy...
The point is, while the convo went OK, the longer we engage in conversation with the WAS, the more opportunity for things to go south. You might find this out the hard way, soon enough.
It's not to say do NOT have convo with them. Rather, be very aware to validate and then get out.
For example:
W: I'm so angry right now.
Me: I understand what that's like. Good night.
It's OK to think there is some reason. Chances are just as good you're wrong of the reason, than you're right of the reason...
In these situations where the WAS is contacting the LBS, I've heard that responding to only half or a third of them can be helpful.
mgm,
There is a chance this is a positive for you. OM could of f'd up bad, which could be good for you.
Of course, she could have also stubbed her toe, got in a fight with the guy at the hotdog stand, or maybe she had too much to drink and was just acting stupid.
The point is, just acknowledge it for what it is. Don't make assumptions and don't create expectations.
Now, reading you texts, you found some times to validate her feelings, and you missed some opportunities.
Instead of me pointing them out, read it back over and I am sure you will see them.
One thing not to ignore, she made a request that you not be in the house when she gets home.
When is this? Does it shorten your original time to Aug. 5th?
There is a balance here between standing your ground and putting up a fight just to fight.
So if you have a reasonable place to stay, and you are comfortable with it, it may be wise you respect her request and not be there when she returns. You are in a tough stop on this one since it is her house, and you have already agreed to leave per court order.
Typically it is recommended for the LBS NOT to leave the house, but...
Your call.
But regardless, either physically or emotionally, give her some space to work through whatever she is dealing with right now. I think KD mentioned it, the chances of you f'n something up are greater than helping right now.
Then this morning she actually sent ME two Bible verses via text before she went to practice. I told her to have a great day and I hoped she was feeling a little better.
She responded she was at practice and had to get it done despite how she feels. I didn't respond. That's the last I've heard from her today.
This was good.
A really tough thing through this is not getting too worked up over these types of things.
I have seen all of the different forms of contact.
Random friendly.
Random upset.
Just random.
Be strong.
KD,
Thanks for those point. I'm going to try to respond on only have of her "advances" and see how that goes for me.
CS,
She comes home on August 7th but then leaves AGAIN to go to Korea for the World Championships on August 17th and won't be back until sometime in early September. The only reason I brought any of this up in the first place to her yesterday was the fact that she said I could stay beyond August 5th when we talked prior to her leaving for Europe. Since that wasn't in writing, I felt it needed to be addressed. If she insists on me leaving, I won't fight it. I really don't have a place to stay but I'll have to figure something out if necessary. I never really agreed to it...I really had no choice...basically the only one who can make it to where it is "ok" for me to stay is her.
I feel like she was having a real emotional moment because immediately after telling me she felt it best for me not to be here, she went down the path of not wanting to be around anyone and specifically said "no man" and not just me...but as you said and as I'm realizing, I can't make too much of that because I really have no idea what it is that she is doing. I prayed for her and I'm going to go hang out with a friend tonight and then church tomorrow so we'll see what's next. I don't really expect to hear from her for the next few days and I don't plan on messaging her myself either.
I was just gut punched again. My W started messaging frantically saying she needed to talk at about 1:30am my time. She kept saying she needed me and wanted to know if she could call me.
She called and for 10 minutes she proceeded to cry to me about OM. Telling me how he'd promised to fly to Monaco and now was able to because the flight was too expensive and how she couldn't be let down anymore. That she told him how it made her feel...like he'd let her down. She said if that made him be done then so be it but she couldn't not tell him how she felt. She ranted for minutes as if she was talking about her husband...ME...but it was all about him. She said she had no one else she could talk to or call. She finally stopped long enough to say "I'm sorry I just didn't have anyone else to call."
At that point, I tried to remain as calm as possible but I was crushed. Next thing I knew I said "So you decided to call me? Do you realize you haven't called me once since you've been gone and yet when you do, you want to talk to me about your boyfriend?" She's sobbing and saying she's sorry. I hung up.
She then messages saying "I'm sorry. I won't contact you anymore."
I sent this back to her: I am your friend. I love you. I'm also your husband. I tried to warn you about him months ago. You don't have to lie in any bed but you choose to. I love you but I can't help you with this. Do you realize the position you just put me in? How would you feel if I called you about a woman because we're having problems? I'm "ok" W. I'm going to be "ok." Somehow. Some way. I want to be "ok" with you but I can't help you with this. You have to understand that.
You guys were right. I was getting to hopeful over nothing. She was crying because she probably feels stupid in one sense but on the other hand, she's really attached to OM. I was out with a friend when this all happened and he tried to talk to me about it on the way home but I just cried. I cried and cried and cried while I drove to the point where I had a headache. I just don't understand. How you can you treat someone this way? I feel so stupid. I can't believe I let this happen to me again. Just when I was started to build up some confidence. Gut punched again. I feel like such a fool.
She told you she had no one else to call. She chose you because she felt safe with you. I understand why you turned her away from an emotional perspective but if you'd stayed on the line and listened and validated...... Females need to talk things through and to be heard. They will know who they feel safe to share with and who really listens to them and comforts them according to their needs.
You guys were right. I was getting to hopeful over nothing. She was crying because she probably feels stupid in one sense but on the other hand, she's really attached to OM. I was out with a friend when this all happened and he tried to talk to me about it on the way home but I just cried. I cried and cried and cried while I drove to the point where I had a headache. I just don't understand. How you can you treat someone this way? I feel so stupid. I can't believe I let this happen to me again. Just when I was started to build up some confidence. Gut punched again. I feel like such a fool.
mgm,
You may feel like a fool, but you handled the situation extremely well. I think you said EXACTLY the right things to her, and that they needed to be said. You told her that you are both a husband and a friend, but for her to discuss OM with you is what I would call a "boundary of personal integrity" that you cannot live with. To go there, you then get into "gay boyfriend" mode in her mind, and while she'll appreciate the friendship, she will LOSE ATTRACTION toward you in my opinion.
It's not your job to rescue her from her bad decisions. Well done.
Starsky
She told you she had no one else to call. She chose you because she felt safe with you. I understand why you turned her away from an emotional perspective but if you'd stayed on the line and listened and validated...... Females need to talk things through and to be heard. They will know who they feel safe to share with and who really listens to them and comforts them according to their needs.
Stayed and listened and validated...another man? I'm sorry...I just don't see how that in any way aids in R or M talks. I would basically be helping her get through and find ways to cope with and work things out with OM. I can't do that. I've tried to talk to her about him in the past. I told her exact things I knew about him and what he was doing with others while he was claiming to love her. That all backfired and just led her to asking him questions to which of course he lied his way out of. Others that know him personally tried to warn her. And now when she finds something out for herself she doesn't call me apologizing and seeking R but rather to have someone be there for her to support her and her EA and PA? That person CAN NOT and WILL NOT be me.
She just messaged me right now saying "Like I said...I'm sorry. I see I put you in a bad place to need to call on God for help. It will never happen again."
I'm not even going to respond. I can't believe her.
I was suggesting validating her feelings, not her boyfriend.
This is the example I was thinking of when I posted.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/a_while_spouse_decides.htm
And she finishes it off with "I will not reach out again... You don't have to respond either." Again...I have no words for her. I'm so hurt.
She just messaged me right now saying "Like I said...I'm sorry. I see I put you in a bad place to need to call on God for help. It will never happen again."
I'm not even going to respond. I can't believe her.
Good call.
And she finishes it off with "I will not reach out again... You don't have to respond either." Again...I have no words for her. I'm so hurt.
Best to just ignore these; you said your peace.
I realized I put her name in my post on page 7. I need a mod to remove it. I'm unable to edit it so I need that post deleted or preferably for her name to be edited to W. I don't want it to pop up as searchable through Google...and I'm unable to edit the post. It was in the second to last paragraph of post #2170803 - Today at 04:24 AM
mgm,
Go to that post, and hit the "Notify" button.
I've personally never seen this approach work. Not here, not elsewhere. And while it appears on a DB website, I'm not even sure it follows DB principles. I'd love to see MWD herself publicly comment on this article sometime, because it comes up here from time to time, but from my reading, it flies in the face of much of what is written in my DR book.
And she finishes it off with "I will not reach out again... You don't have to respond either." Again...I have no words for her. I'm so hurt.
Hurt is fine. That is understandable.
The pitfall is fear from this. Fear that she will never contact you again so you try and hold on.
It is an unreasonable fear.
I agree with Startsky.
You did well.
Let her process all of this. Your words would only interrupt that process.
You need to process it as well.
W called this morning after I left my DivorceCare group. Relatively pleasant conversation. She began by apologizing for calling me about OM. Said she didn't think it through and was very sorry for the predicament it put me in and promised it would not happen again in the future. Spoke candidly about her feelings. Said she realizes she is messed up and has not handled any of this properly. Said she wants to try and fix things with me but knows she can't the way she is currently and really needs to take time to isolate herself and work on her. I listened and she asked me what things have I done to try to work on me. I shared with her that at some point if she truly wants help she should seek some form of counseling...that it has greatly deal with my issues involving her and even the ones that have nothing to do with her....if she didn't feel comfortable going to our church she could go to another and that there were plenty of resources available.
We went back and forth on how difficult this was for us both but the thing I stressed was that as much as I want to be there for her, I can NOT be there for her about OM in any shape, form or fashion. She said she understood. I was very honest with her about how things made me feel and that I still desired to be with her but I made it very clear that I will be ok either way. That I am still praying and hoping but am not just sitting at home in the dark. Let her know that I was making plans for my future and while if those plans included her, that would be great but if not, I will move on. She was very receptive and responsive and opened up much more than she has since she has been gone. Something happened with our connection so she ended up having to go after about 20 minutes of talking or so.
She texted me a few hours later:
W: It was so great talking to you and being able to be completely honest about how I feel...it felt really good.
Me: I'm glad you were able to express yourself freely.
W: Thanks for opening up to me like that. That's all I've ever wanted. How is school going? I saw where you were taking tests. I've been praying for you. You'll do great. It will be over soon. Is there anything I can do?
Me: Beyond the prayers, I don't think so. I appreciate it.
She then called me about 5 minutes later. We talked about track. I asked about the dogs (apparently a neighbor has been keeping them). She asked if I'd like to keep them. I told her I would starting next week (this week is my last week of summer classes). We talked for a while about random stuff...I mainly just let her speak and I somewhat responded to the things she said.
I'm not really sure the purpose of any of this but it seems as if she is at the very least attempting to begin to sort through some of her own feelings and actions and process them. I too am attempting to process them as well and make sure that I don't attach any unfounded R hope to what could be just her being disappointed about things with OM. She made it a point to tell me she hadn't talked to him in the past couple days to which I really didn't have much to say. She told me she's wanted to call me but felt like she would never have "enough answers" for me and so she felt it was better for her to just not call...until today basically.
mgm, sounds like some steps in the right direction. Just be patient and don't try to run too fast. I am keeping you in my prayers.
We went back and forth on how difficult this was for us both but the thing I stressed was that as much as I want to be there for her, I can NOT be there for her about OM in any shape, form or fashion. She said she understood. I was very honest with her about how things made me feel and that I still desired to be with her but I made it very clear that I will be ok either way. That I am still praying and hoping but am not just sitting at home in the dark. Let her know that I was making plans for my future and while if those plans included her, that would be great but if not, I will move on.
Now THAT'S how it's done, ladies and gentlemen!!!
Man, I agree.
I made it very clear that I will be ok either way
And this is why.
I won't even ask if you truly believe it right now.
If you can convey it, great start.
Either way.
Good luck and well done.
mgm, I have a little time now so I just wanted to mention something.
It has nothing to do with what you did, just something I want you not to do.
The idea of being OK without her. Being strong and confident. Being a man.
All good things.
What I want to make sure is clear is this is not confused with being a d!ck. Being arrogant. Being cocky. Being angry.
Being strong and confident is the absence of all of those things.
You become angry, mean, etc not from detachment, but from attachment. Attachment that you're right and she is wrong. Having to prove you are right, because those thoughts are not just ideas, but what you now associate yourself as being.
So like I said. I say this not from what you have done, just what I want to keep you from doing.
I guess the reason I say this, is I can see the slippery slope.
You stand up for yourself, and it leads to a thought of superiority.
"I'm right and she is wrong!"
I know you are a man of faith. So remember those words as you stand strong.
Peace.
CS,
I completely understand what you mean and I've been very conscious of avoiding the arrogance and anger. Coincidentally enough, I started a DivorceCare group today at a local church and the topic was....anger! LOL.
I paraphrased how I conveyed "move on" to her. I was a little more detailed with her. Let her know that I am still praying for and hoping for reconciliation but that I am also taking the proper steps to make sure I'm able to move out by the 5th if that is what she desires. That I've been looking at new job opportunities. Etc, etc.
I've been extremely careful not to allow my emotions to get me to the point where I attack her verbally or in anyway become disrespectful. I explained to her the reason I hung up on her last night was I felt myself getting angry and that I didn't want to say anything I didn't mean in the moment. She actually told me she understood completely and that I didn't have to explain it to her or apologize.
The one thing I am very proud of is throughout all of this, I've made it very clear to her that I am not trying to point the finger (and I think I've been able to best do this because of my faith). I told her I've done my best to stop focusing on her and OM and try to focus on things that I know I can improve, both inside and outside of our relationship because with or without her, I desire to continue to become a better person. It's been a pretty interesting past few days since I switched my approach from continually reaching out to her so I guess I'm finding what works for me and I'll try to continue down that path.
Thank you all for the continued encouragement...especially CS, jb, Starsky and KD. Your words of wisdom have been a blessing and helped me remain calm in the middle of the storm. Marathon...not a sprint. Got it.
mgm, I have a little time now so I just wanted to mention something.
It has nothing to do with what you did, just something I want you not to do.
The idea of being OK without her. Being strong and confident. Being a man.
All good things.
What I want to make sure is clear is this is not confused with being a d!ck. Being arrogant. Being cocky. Being angry.
Being strong and confident is the absence of all of those things.
You become angry, mean, etc not from detachment, but from attachment. Attachment that you're right and she is wrong. Having to prove you are right, because those thoughts are not just ideas, but what you now associate yourself as being.
So like I said. I say this not from what you have done, just what I want to keep you from doing.
I guess the reason I say this, is I can see the slippery slope.
You stand up for yourself, and it leads to a thought of superiority.
"I'm right and she is wrong!"
I know you are a man of faith. So remember those words as you stand strong.
Peace.
Great points, Country -- completely agree!
Starsky
mgm,
Because you are a believer, and you mentioned "storm," I wanted to send this link to you. This song really got me thru some tough times in my life:
Casting Crowns -- "Praise You in this Storm" Starsky
That is a great song Starsky.
I'm conflicted on whether or not to reach out to her today. Our conversations went well yesterday and she even indicated that it hadn't bothered her when I was previously being the one to contact her...in some regards I assume this is because she liked the pursued feeling so I don't know if that is something I want to return to. She played this song for me while we were on the phone yesterday and said she listens to it while she is in the shower each day:
Anthony Hamilton - Her Heart I tried not to think too much into it but the lyrics are pretty strong.
I let you down a thousand times
Broken promises
It's like I ran away from you
My career was my excuse
Until I saw you about to drown in your own tears
And as you cried in my arms
You woke up my heart
And I saw again what I found in you
Cuz her heart, her heart wont let me lose her
No matter how I try
I just cant say goodbye and lose her
When all the folks were said and done
You were there to welcome me home
I was convicted cuz your love never wavered
I know you love me more than me
And you vowed to love through anything
I never had a kind of love that was forever
And as you cried in my arms
You woke up my heart
And I saw again what I found in you
Cuz her love, her love wont let me lose her
No matter how I try
I just cant say goodbye and lose her
I know it's kind of cheesy and in some regards...really many regards...pointless to try to analyze it but it's almost like she's telling me she knows my love for her is unwavering and that she really doesn't want to let go of us. It kind of lined up with her telling me that she knows deep down inside that she wants to work things out with me but just can't as the person she currently is...one that is "messed up" as she described herself. She even said she knew for the longest what I was saying about the OM was true...that she was using him to try to replace me...she was crying when she said it and said "but he doesn't know me...not at all...and definitely not like you."
She saw my blackberry status said "Can't sleep" last night and she called me at 2am...said she just wanted to make sure I was ok and that she'd had trouble sleeping that night also. We had a short 5 minute conversation before she ended it by kind of saying "well I just wanted to make sure you're ok..." I basically said I was ok and that I hope she's able to get some rest herself and thanks for checking on me.
Haven't heard from her today and I gotta be honest that I am getting an itch to shoot her a message. Just not sure if I should or not.
Haven't heard from her today and I gotta be honest that I am getting an itch to shoot her a message. Just not sure if I should or not.
Nooooooo!!!!!
This is what we call "going all melty-man" on her, and it's a natural reaction when you finally get some spark in return from them. But the #1 MISTAKE PEOPLE MAKE IN DBing, is letting the walkaway/wayward spouse back in too quickly . . . too easily.
GO SLOW, it's good for BOTH of you. SHE has issues she needs to work on, that caused her to make the awful decision to try to leave her family in the first place, and YOU have things that YOU need to work on, that helped to create the marital dysfunction to begin with, right?
STOP PURSUING, and stop doing the "melty-man" thing would be my best advice. Be kind, but GO SLOW.
Starsky
Melty-man?
I think that's a new in for me
I agree.
Stay strong. Keep yourself busy.
Uggghhhh...LOL.
Fine. I'll stick my nose back in a book, work out, go to class tonight and keep on trucking. Just needed a little bit of that "don't do it" reinforcement. LOL.
You're doing great! Remember, your instincts are not always correct in this case - keep the "don't pursue" rule in mind, and if you get an urge you know you shouldn't, come here so we can talk you out of it!
I definitely am trying to find more church activities to get into. My biggest issue right now is that I'm in graduate school so I have night class 8-10pm Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. I was in a men's group that met every Wed night until summer started. Luckily I'll get to get back into that on August 3rd. I'm involved in Big Brothers Big Sisters but even that has been difficult because my Little often asks about W. We joined as a Big Couple. I don't want to let my Little down so I continue trying to be there for him even though W hasn't contacted him in months now.
mgm, this is great stuff.
The Big Brother thing is awesome.
Anything else out there you have been wanting to do?
Have you kept football in your life since college?
Do you think you would enjoy coaching a youth league or something similar?
This is a great time to really think about what you like, and want to do in your life, regardless of what happens in your M.
Often we get so wrapped up in the R, we put other things on the back burner.
In M life or single life, having activities we enjoy are important.
I've found myself also questioning whether or not I'm just masking by activities.
Not at all. While I do agree part of the GAL is you take your mind off of things, it serves another purpose.
It reminds us we are an individual. That we have our own interests and talents.
Hope all is well.
a girl - Thanks for the encouragement.
CS - I kind of want to take some cooking classes believe it or not. I've always enjoyed cooking and wanted to take some classes at a local Whole Foods or something just for the fun of it. Gonna work on smoking some different foods too this weekend maybe.
I've kept football in my life but I'm pretty conflicted about football now given the OM is in the NFL. I was actually a huge fan OM prior to all of this and even enjoyed rooting on his team because a couple of my college teammates play with him but I'd be lying if I said my entire mood is kind of soured to the game now. It honest to God has been tough for me to watch ESPN...and as a man that loves the game and sports in general, that's tough for me but I'm trying to get back into it. Especially now that the lockout has ended. I want to find a flag football league to get involved with maybe.
Today was interesting in that I've been thinking all along our next court date is September 12th when we meet with the mediator - I was wrong. We meet on October 19th. I guess that's a good thing because it "buys me more time" to see how this thing continues to play out. That being said the August 5th move out date still looms and she hasn't circled back to say whether or not she's ok with me staying longer.
She didn't contact me today and I didn't contact her but I did find out an interesting tidbit. I have a good friend of mine who also runs track. I'm in his wedding in November and he said last night he messaged my W and asked her if she wanted her maiden name on her invitation to the wedding. He said she responded this morning and said "No. Leave it as my married name. I think I'll still be my married name." Or it went something like that. I know...I know. Don't read too much into it. It could just meant she didn't expect it to be D by the time she receives the invitation. My friend (who knows the details of our sitch) just said he found her response to be interesting.
I guess I'll just go ahead and try to get some rest. Here lately I haven't been sleeping well...really the past 2 or 3 nights because her recent behavior has my mind racing. Trying to remain strong and holdout from messaging her until she contacts me. Tough because she's traveling from one country to another and I typically like to wish her well or send her a prayer but I suppose I can pray for her to myself just as easily as I could with her knowing/participating/allowing me to pray for her.
The cooking and flag football sound great.
This is the perfect time to pursue the "I've always wanted to" stuff.
It will help you find yourself again. Your confidence. Your happiness. Your passion for life.
I understand not rooting for OM. No way I am going to ask you to do that!
But don't let him take the game from you, or your love of sports in general.
That gives him power, and takes it from you.
Give yourself the power.
W messaged me at 1:30am to let me know about her travel itinerary. She was about to take off and had a connecting flight before her final destination.
Me: Thanks for telling me. I appreciate you doing that. Hope you travel safe (and your bags too) and I hope you're feeling better than you were the other day.
W: I hope so too. I'm ok. Just taking my time.
Me: Take all the time you need.
She messaged me when she took off, landed at her connection and then again at her final destination.
Me: Glad to hear that. Doing well I hope.
W: I'm ok. Thanks.
And here's where I may have regressed and gone too "melty man."
Me: There are a couple of bills that came that I am going to try to research for you. Maybe Monday we can go over them but I just wanted you to know I'll help you make sure things are in order. Just want you to be able to focus on your meet. I also want you to know that I appreciate you W. I read this this morning and thought of you. Believe in yourself b/c He is in you and working in you and for you. I hope I haven't disrupted your day and hopefully your bags made it safely. I pray you have a great day. #BeEncouraged Philippians 2:13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.
I mentioned the bills thing because she gets very stressed about them since she is not home. I used to control and take care of everything but with her closing the accounts, I don't have the access to the funds that I used to. She read my message and never responded. Could be because she had just landed and is getting her bags and stuff. Could be because I overwhelmed her. Feel kind of like I took a step back in a sense but I was trying to address some of her concerns and give her a little comfort...maybe I just laid it on too thick...or maybe I'm completely over analyzing. I'm not sure.
W messaged me at 1:30am to let me know about her travel itinerary. She was about to take off and had a connecting flight before her final destination.
Me: Thanks for telling me. I appreciate you doing that. Hope you travel safe (and your bags too) and I hope you're feeling better than you were the other day.
W: I hope so too. I'm ok. Just taking my time.
Me: Take all the time you need.
She messaged me when she took off, landed at her connection and then again at her final destination.
Me: Glad to hear that. Doing well I hope.
W: I'm ok. Thanks.
And here's where I may have regressed and gone too "melty man." . . .
That's funny, cuz I thought the part you already WROTE there was the part where you'd gone too "melty man."
Sorry, but I don't think yer gettin' it so far, mgm. Maybe someone else can try to explain it better, but your wife needs to see some AUTHENTICITY from you, some "Middle ground" between her perceived bad-marital-you and this new "Nice Passive Guy" that she's suddenly seeing.
I mentioned the bills thing because she gets very stressed about them since she is not home. I used to control and take care of everything but with her closing the accounts, I don't have the access to the funds that I used to. She read my message and never responded. Could be because she had just landed and is getting her bags and stuff. Could be because I overwhelmed her. Feel kind of like I took a step back in a sense but I was trying to address some of her concerns and give her a little comfort...maybe I just laid it on too thick...or maybe I'm completely over analyzing. I'm not sure.
Most likely, she sees this as coming across as "pursuing," "pressure," and "holier-than-thou." Not that that's FAIR, but I guaran-damn-tee you that she's perceiving it that way.
STOP SMOTHERING HER.Starsky
Sorry, but I don't think yer gettin' it so far, mgm. Maybe someone else can try to explain it better
Oh come on Starsky, you know this [censored] takes time.
How long did you put up with me?
I think you even said "I give up" at one point.
But you didn't.
I mentioned the bills thing because she gets very stressed about them since she is not home. I used to control and take care of everything but with her closing the accounts, I don't have the access to the funds that I used to. She read my message and never responded. Could be because she had just landed and is getting her bags and stuff. Could be because I overwhelmed her. Feel kind of like I took a step back in a sense but I was trying to address some of her concerns and give her a little comfort...maybe I just laid it on too thick...or maybe I'm completely over analyzing. I'm not sure.
Most likely, she sees this as coming across as "pursuing," "pressure," and "holier-than-thou." Not that that's FAIR, but I guaran-damn-tee you that she's perceiving it that way.
STOP SMOTHERING HER.Starsky
So me not being the one to reach out to HER since last Thursday (I know that's not "long" but it's a start for me) and this being the only real thing I've said that is "pursuing" since then is me smothering her? Hell she's been the one reaching out to me...I think this is just the first time I've actually responded in that kind of detail...and that's why I posted it here...to see if what I perceived could've been my flaw in a moment of "weakness" was in fact something that I need to avoid going forward...or even to establish how I can potentially gain some ground back from this course of action that I took.
I like to see successful outcomes, Country. The longer he waits to at least START implementing some of these very basic first steps, the less chance he's going to have.
Let's face it, there are VERY few (any, currently?) success stories around here. That's not a knock on DB/DR, it's simply because most people's marriages are already deep in crisis -- and often involve infidelity -- by the time people land here to try to get help. When you argue with the advice that you get, and instead try to go with your "gut" -- when your gut instincts are usually what landed your marriage in the soup to begin with -- you're only making it harder on yourself.
So that's part of it. The other part is STYLE; I know mine can be brusque. It's not for everyone, and maybe others can help him more, by explaining it better or differently.
Starsky
I mentioned the bills thing because she gets very stressed about them since she is not home. I used to control and take care of everything but with her closing the accounts, I don't have the access to the funds that I used to. She read my message and never responded. Could be because she had just landed and is getting her bags and stuff. Could be because I overwhelmed her. Feel kind of like I took a step back in a sense but I was trying to address some of her concerns and give her a little comfort...maybe I just laid it on too thick...or maybe I'm completely over analyzing. I'm not sure.
Most likely, she sees this as coming across as "pursuing," "pressure," and "holier-than-thou." Not that that's FAIR, but I guaran-damn-tee you that she's perceiving it that way.
STOP SMOTHERING HER.Starsky
So me not being the one to reach out to HER since last Thursday (I know that's not "long" but it's a start for me) and this being the only real thing I've said that is "pursuing" since then is me smothering her? Hell she's been the one reaching out to me...I think this is just the first time I've actually responded in that kind of detail...and that's why I posted it here...to see if what I perceived could've been my flaw in a moment of "weakness" was in fact something that I need to avoid going forward...or even to establish how I can potentially gain some ground back from this course of action that I took.
I was thinking mostly of your late-nite text exchange with her three days ago, mgm.
Starsky
Oh, I know. Oh, do I know.
Just dialing down the expectations bit, you know?
Sorry, but I don't think yer gettin' it so far, mgm. Maybe someone else can try to explain it better, but your wife needs to see some AUTHENTICITY from you, some "Middle ground" between her perceived bad-marital-you and this new "Nice Passive Guy" that she's suddenly seeing.
mgm,
You have turned from a frog into a prince. With no middle ground here. Would YOU trust the bully who had gone from beating you up and taking your lunch money every day to the guy carrying your books and wanting you to come over and play the xbox with him?
She doesn't trust you.
Sad to say its, easy to make a change, easier to say you have, and far far far harder to live them out.
Point in fact, I don't believe you have changed yet, despite your desire, not until time has passed, not until you no longer call this a change, but instead this is who mgm is now.
Something like that Starsky?
Starsky,
I didn't see myself as arguing...I was just trying to understand where the blasting came from. I can handle style...I've been dog cussed by coaches for the majority of my life so that doesn't bother me.
Jack,
I guess that's maybe where I miss some of this...when you talk about frog to prince are we talking in her perception? Because I was NOT the bully...I had some very common flaws and I have focused intently on improving upon them but I didn't force all of this...sure I contributed along the way as anyone does but I didn't make her decide to do what she has done.
That being said, I understand what you are all saying and I truly respect it. I don't believe in too late so if I'm guilty of retaining hope then so be it. But I am becoming a better person and man each and every day. I'm finding myself in ways I hadn't been able to before. I just use this place as a sounding board of sorts and to communicate with people who have been there. That being said, I'm human. So if Starsky or any of you feel like I'm a "waste of time" in a sense because I haven't done everything to the T the way I'm "supposed" to do it, I fully understand and respect that. I say that with no tone or anger or disrespect...but as much as I'm searching for guidance I am my own man and will ultimately have to make decisions on my own. I sometimes just like to talk through them, before or after, to be able to see vantage points that I maybe hadn't considered.
Maybe I'm early in my marathon but it doesn't make the intensity any less just because I haven't been "in it" as long as some.
Something like that Starsky?
No, you f'd it up royally.
Ok, bad joke out of the way
Just a follow up.
And since I like to pat myself on the back, I'll quote something I just said. TBH, it is actually based on the quote from Bworl I posted here in Newcomers recently.
Everyone starts right away in this process claiming "I've changed!"
And in a since they have. But what it is they are scared shitless.
This fear causes them to say different things. Act differently. Think differently.
So, it is "change" in it's basic sense.
But this is not the change we are going for.
The goal is
real change.
Life long, self improved, change.
This does unfortunately take some time.
That is why now is not the time to "show her you changed"
Although that's what everyone seems to want to do.
What your showing now is the "fear based change"
She WILL SEE the
real change when it happens.
And you will not feel the need to
show it to her.
Peace
The bully was an analogy. Used so you could draw an example between her not trusting your immediate changes.
You are very literal. : )
What happened to you to give you that...martyr complex thing. The "whole waste of time". I guarentee no one here said that. That came from you. Its almost a defense mechanism.
No one gets it to a T. Too much conflicting ideas and to be honest, you could do everything perfectly by the book and all that does is gives you a chance, not a guarenteee.
If my tone, in anyway comes across as aggresive? Or mean-spirited? Or anything like that...that simply is not the case.
Challenging? God I hope so. But it serves no purpose to get you so upset you don't want to be here.
I WANT you and your wife to find out that your marriage is worth it and can become something so much better than either of you have every thought possible.
So does Starsky.
The early defintion of success, they one you want when you first come here? The people who made it through and are married? That's Starsky as well.
However, I view Starsky as a success NOT because he is married. But because he grew strong from this, he rebuilt himself into a better, father, friend, husband, brother, and son.
We cannot fix other people. We can however fix ourself.
1 more thing.
DBmod is going to come around and either lock this thread up or ask you to make a new one.
: )
I'll start a new thread and respond.
Sorry, but I don't think yer gettin' it so far, mgm. Maybe someone else can try to explain it better, but your wife needs to see some AUTHENTICITY from you, some "Middle ground" between her perceived bad-marital-you and this new "Nice Passive Guy" that she's suddenly seeing.
mgm,
You have turned from a frog into a prince. With no middle ground here. Would YOU trust the bully who had gone from beating you up and taking your lunch money every day to the guy carrying your books and wanting you to come over and play the xbox with him?
She doesn't trust you.
Sad to say its, easy to make a change, easier to say you have, and far far far harder to live them out.
Point in fact, I don't believe you have changed yet, despite your desire, not until time has passed, not until you no longer call this a change, but instead this is who mgm is now.
Something like that Starsky?
As usual, you said it waaayyy better than I did, Jack.
Yeah . . . something like that.
Starsky
Created a new thread and responded to CS, Jack and Starsky.
New Thread: Feels Like I'm in Two-A-Daysdbmod can lock this one up.