Nice take on Love 2step. Just when there is sometimes little hope left you throw that out there.
Its a good thing i guess but sometimes you get tired of spinning your wheels while she tests the future with someone else.
I sometimes wonder if this is just a hiccup for us or the beginning for her and OM.
Time as always will tell.
9
hi 2step
can't wait to hear the wisdom
hope you are doing well
Mr. 2step good to hear from you. Hope all is well.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok so as promised i will begin this thread with highlights with my DB couch. Did I mention she was awesome?
I spent 27 minutes of the convo just catching her up on the all that has happened since last we spoke. Here is some of the points DB couch made............
1. Don't go dark on W. Reach out to her on occasion just to say hello, contact her more often.
2. Her comment of always saying "I don't want to give you false hope" steams a lot from her making sure I am paying attention. For a long time she did not feel valued or listened to in the M so now that she knows she has my attention she wants to keep it.
3. Generally no R talk but don't necessarily avoid it if she goes into it.
4. Start replacing negative memories with positive memories.
Those are some of the key points.
So based on that information I went ahead and called W yesterday evening. I wanted to talk to her about taxes and this is how that exchange went.
W: Hey you called?
M: Yeah guess what I got in the mail today?
W: Whats that?
M: I got a letter from the IRS saying we are debt free
W: Really? That is great
M: I am very happy right now
W: Isn't that better than owing the IRS money
M: For sure
W: Now that we got rid of that debt I have to figure out how to get rid of the other 15k I owe in CC debt
M: Well one 15k at a time
W: Oh what you want get a loan and get rid of that debt for me?
M: I don't think so, but thank you for asking
W: LOL Can't blame a girl for trying
M: You sure can't. I appreciate you asking
W: You will get a big fat thank you from me. You might even get one of those big cards that requires extra postage
M: Well now you are sweating the pot...........no the answer is still no. It is the thought that counts though
W: LOL yeah only you did not think about it
M: LOL nope. I sure didn't
W: You seem to be very chipper today
M: I am in deed
W: You must of had a good weekend
M: hmmm
W: hmmm huh? LOL well that’s good. Good for you deserve a good weekend
M: It was pretty good
W: Well good. I am glad. You reached a milestone
M: What is that?
W: Now you can dish out also. Thats good
M: LOL Yeah I guess so what are you up to
W: Getting ready to go do laundry. I was just sitting at home with my fan on and all the windows open reading a book
M: Sounds very nice your own little piece of heaven
W: Yup. I love it
The whole convo which lasted a total of 12 min went like that. It was light and fun and some sarcasm thrown in both directions.
I walked away from it a little uneasy I will try my best to explain why.
A lot of what we do say and hear we analyzes. Sometimes we are wrong and sometimes we are right. This convo while light was kind of revealing for me.
She mentioned the weekend not knowing what i had done all weekend. She did not ask any further and was perfectly content with anything I would have done. She was ok and seemed actually happy I would have gone out and had a good time. Not typical.
She seemed detached in the convo. After 5 months of phone convo's I can tell the difference. I have mentioned this about my last 2 convo's with her.
I believe my W is at a cross rd right now. She is detaching from me and is doing a pretty good job of it. When I call she begins to doubt and question. Periods of no contact only help with the detachment.
If you look at my history you will notice that contact has been 80/20 her. She has reached out to me. I am under the impression that is changing and she will not be doing her typical reaching out. She might call here and there but she is by no means doing the heavy thinking she was doing before.
This does not work in my favor.
I think that was a great convo! I don't want to beat a dead horse, but this is the exact thing I was talking about in your other thread. Convos like this, IMO, will help soften her. No pressure for her to pull back from. I think it will start decreasing her anger and take away the anxiety she might feel when you guys speak.
BUT. I think 2step also feels that she is detaching for real and may be the next step for this being a permanent separation. That is the toughest thing to try and balance. Going dark may mean out of site out of mind and lets move on, permanently.
Sounded like a good conversation but that may mean the beginning to the end. One never really knows. Maybe she doesnt even know for sure.
Thats why this is all so convuluted. There are no blueprints to navigate , its all speculation.
Hope you are taking the positives 2step.
9
BUT. I think 2step also feels that she is detaching for real and may be the next step for this being a permanent separation. That is the toughest thing to try and balance. Going dark may mean out of site out of mind and lets move on, permanently.
Sounded like a good conversation but that may mean the beginning to the end. One never really knows. Maybe she doesnt even know for sure.
Thats why this is all so convuluted. There are no blueprints to navigate , its all speculation.
Hope you are taking the positives 2step.
9
Exactly!
Country I get your point. Don't think I don't. One thing that I am is stubborn some of the people who have been with me since the beginning will tell you.
I do get the no R/M talk, although back in Jan I did not.
The voice, the tone, the reaction are much more important than the words.
Scary part is I feel close to the same.
All the good stuff happens when I am trying to sleep off a respiratory infection! Sheesh!
As was pointed out to you like a week or two ago, she's in the anger phase. She has to get through this, so this might not be a good time to try and move things forward. The anger is good. It means she's noticed the changes, that she's peeved that you made them after she left and not before.
Her comment about how you never argue with her...that's GREAT! Keep it up! That's really making an impression on her!
The WASs LOVE IT when they can get under your skin. When you argue with them, it validates why they left. You are refusing to play into her hands!
And whoever said don't answer the next 3 times when she calls then tell her you don't want to give her false hope...yes yes and yes! LMAO. The sentiment is dead on. It's good to give the WAS a scare every once in a while, act as if you are more detached than you are and make them realize what they might be letting go, that they might be losing you.
Michelle when you go dark on me I panic. LOL sorry to hear you were feeling sick. I hope you feel better soon.
That part in bold is coming, sooner than you think. When I do it though it will not be a ploy to get her attention. It will be for real.
BUT. I think 2step also feels that she is detaching for real and may be the next step for this being a permanent separation. That is the toughest thing to try and balance. Going dark may mean out of site out of mind and lets move on, permanently.
Sounded like a good conversation but that may mean the beginning to the end. One never really knows. Maybe she doesnt even know for sure.
Thats why this is all so convuluted. There are no blueprints to navigate , its all speculation.
Hope you are taking the positives 2step.
9
I'd guess she probably doesn't even know herself. Keep doing what you're doing 2step. You never can tell with these WAW's.
You know its funny. I wish we could sit down and talk to our waw's and have them really, really think this through.
I have talked to some divorced people where there were affairs and almost to the person they wish they would have handled things differently and stayed with their spouses.
Unless there was abuse or alcholism or gambling problems, for the most part, things could have been worked out without going down this road.
I fully believe my W will fee this way in a few years. One of my collegues said that I should just let her go and if she is LUCKY enough to realize what she had is still available, then she can make things work out.
But many of these WAW's dont get that chance because the LBS eventually gets stronger and then moves on.
SAD
9
LITB
My W is at a crossroads, I feel it. Which direction she will go is anybody's guess. I know in which direction she is looking though; or at least I am pretty sure.
I hope she takes the road back to 2step. As I continually read on these forums, patience, patience and more patience.
You know its funny. I wish we could sit down and talk to our waw's and have them really, really think this through.
I have talked to some divorced people where there were affairs and almost to the person they wish they would have handled things differently and stayed with their spouses.
Unless there was abuse or alcholism or gambling problems, for the most part, things could have been worked out without going down this road.
I fully believe my W will fee this way in a few years. One of my collegues said that I should just let her go and if she is LUCKY enough to realize what she had is still available, then she can make things work out.
But many of these WAW's dont get that chance because the LBS eventually gets stronger and then moves on.
SAD
9
Holy Smokes 9 - this is SO spot on what you wrote. I have heard MANY of the same storyline. Interesting huh?!
It is interesting and sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo sad at the same time. Especially when children are involved. Also, if the two people involved where not arguing all the time or abusive to each other , it doesnt make sense.
My kids NEVER knew there was a problem between us.
Time will tell all. I mentioned at one time that I wish I had a PVR to see how this plays out. The suspense is killing me.
9
Hope we are not hijacking your thread too much 2step
2, as always you handled yourself well and in true DB'g fashion. I do believe that your W is at a crossroads as well. Maybe time to reel her in a bit and gage where she's at or not at. IMHO, you have enough knowledge from all that you have learned to handle it w/o being pushy or having her feel pressured. Nice job!
9 no worries. The truth of the matter is that it is very sad. In the end we live for ourselves hoping to save our M but realizing that we might not.
We come here looking for some secret sauce or phrase and realize we can only work on us. That is ok. I have seen some people make it from the ashes just in my short time here. I have seen some people leave and some people stay.
Sometimes even if you do all the right things you still won't make it.
It is reality.
My obstacle has always been the distance. I am not waving my white flag yet. I am just acknowledging that it is a possibility
Thanks all for this thread. I am still fairly new to this. I just want to take my WAW and shake her and ask her if she really knows what in the world she's doing. However, I've learned enough at this point that would be highly ineffective DB'ing and would be counterproductive.
Country I get your point. Don't think I don't. One thing that I am is stubborn some of the people who have been with me since the beginning will tell you.
I do get the no R/M talk, although back in Jan I did not.
The voice, the tone, the reaction are much more important than the words.
Scary part is I feel close to the same.
I don't think we are very far apart here at all. I am not suggesting going dark, just keeping things upbeat and light. I guess I don’t understand the fear of her becoming detached, I think all of these W’s who left are already detached. That was done most likely before they even left.
I just don’t see what positive can come from R talk at this point. Hope to change her mind?
All I am suggesting is baby steps. I think the first thing should be addressing her anger, and I think conversations like the one you had will help that much more than any R talk at this point.
Keep truckin’ man. This is a tough road and there are no easy answers. You do know your W best so use that knowledge.
just keeping things upbeat and light
This is always the plan.
I guess I don’t understand the fear of her becoming detached, I think all of these W’s who left are already detached. That was done most likely before they even left.
A point I have made to new comers over and over and over again. It is very real that the WAW detached before leaving. It is no secret that she is much further along than I am. I understand all that. Indifference is a dangerous emotion when we are dealing with our sitch. We each handle detachment differently. I know where I am and I think I see where she is going.
I just don’t see what positive can come from R talk at this point. Hope to change her mind?
None. You missunderstand me country. I am not looking for a R talk. After 5 months of talking on the phone you learn to pick up certain vibes from the voice. That's all
I think the first thing should be addressing her anger, and I think conversations like the one you had will help that much more than any R talk at this point.
Agreed. I've had these convo's before. Light and chipper, but not like this. There is a difference in the voice.
I am not going anywhere. I am still here. I am kind of a pest that way. Just can't take no for an answer
Thanks all for this thread. I am still fairly new to this. I just want to take my WAW and shake her and ask her if she really knows what in the world she's doing. However, I've learned enough at this point that would be highly ineffective DB'ing and would be counterproductive.
jbnati welcome to the thread and the boards I hope that you find peace and wisdom in what you read. It has helped me a great deal and I hope that it helps you
As I look back on the life I have lived so far, do I have any feeling of regret or do I wish that I made different choices and decisions. I have to admit that life is full of tough choices and somewhere along the way we make mistakes. There is not a single person who hasn't encountered problems and hardships in life. The sufferings of every person though differ and some may be heavier compared to others.
I would be a hypocrite to say that I don't have any regrets in life. I have a lot of them and there are really times when I am at my lowest and I feel like I have no inspiration and strength to move on. I suppose the regrets that I have are the opportunities that I have foregone and the "what ifs" that were never answered. I still have a long journey to go and I am not even halfway in reaching my destination. Despite this though, life has been hard but has been full of learning experiences. There were times in my life when I made decisions based on what others dictated upon me and not on what I really wanted. These were some of the circumstances that I as well regretted upon.
In making life's decisions, making them yourself would be to your benefit. Do not let your parents, your partner or your friends make them for you. In order to learn how to go through life and its difficulties, you need to make your own choices and your own judgment. While at times it is true that listening to others advice can help us avoid undesirable results, making your own decisions would lead you to only blaming your own self and not others. It is in these wrong decisions that we draw learning experiences and we draw the strength to do better next time. The events in our lives mold us into stronger individuals.
When there are times that you feel that you can't go on just hold on and you will see a rainbow after every storm. Always try to see the good in every situation instead of the bad. Learn to get up when you stumble. As you were learning how to walk when you were a toddler, you had fallen several times. Life is just like that. We stumble and we may even bruise ourselves but the wound heals and life goes on.
A message to my
BITS
Great post 2step. All of it so true. I hope that you are doing well.
BITS
Denver
For every situation in life there is a Willie song to go with it....
Nothing I Can Do About It Now
I've got a long list of real good reasons
For all the things I've done
I've got a picture in the back of my mind
Of what I've lost and what I've won
I've survived every situation
Knowing when to freeze and when to run
And regret is just a memory written on my brow
And there's nothing I can do about it now
I've got a wild and a restless spirit
I've held my price through every deal
I've seen the fire of a woman scorned
Turn her heart of gold to steel
I've got the song of the voice inside me
Set to the rhythm of the wheel
And I been dreaming like a child
Since the cradle broke the bough
And there's nothing I can do about it now
Running through the changes going through the stages
Coming round the corners in my life
Leaving doubt to fate staying out too late
Waiting for the moon to say goodniiiigh-hi-hi-hite
And I could cry for the time I've wasted
But that's a waste of time and tears
And I know just what I'd change
If I went back in time somehow
But there's nothing I can do about it now
OMG that is some of the saddest lyrics I've ever read.
Hey 2 step. Dealing with training at work, haven't had steady internet access.
I agree you are at a bit of a cross-roads. But because the tone of conversation has changed a little does not commit her to one path or the other. She may just be handling her anger, or processing it, or rationalizing it away.
Don't let that get to you.
Keep focusing on what's worked.
Keep the good memories coming. Don't ASS-U-ME too much. Let her actions speak louder than her words. She didn't have to talk to you, she wanted to.
And be patient.
It is very true that it is normally the LBS who decides when to close the door on R. And it is also the norm that the WAS regrets their actions later.
Don't be normal!!!!
Michelle,
I hope the training is going good. Thank you for checking up on me as always. She is healing and she is getting stronger, its only natural the same as I am. We will see where this rd takes us both but I know things are turning I just feel it.
5 months into I am not sure which direction to go. I think the convo’s have run their course I am contemplating my next step.
"When there are times that you feel that you can't go on just hold on and you will see a rainbow after every storm. Always try to see the good in every situation instead of the bad."
-2Step
Lis:
How nice to see you back on the boards again. You have been missed.
"When there are times that you feel that you can't go on just hold on and you will see a rainbow after every storm. Always try to see the good in every situation instead of the bad."
-2Step
Yes!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So it’s been awhile since I posted any updates W and I have spoken very little in the past two weeks. We spoke on Friday for a few minutes but it was like 6. Today I had to call her about taxes so I did and this exchange went unlike I was expecting
H: Hey how are you
W: I am good and you?
H: I am good. Hey did you file already?
W: Yeah I filed. Those are the papers you signed remember.
H: I mean the taxes.
W: Oh LOL. No I have not filed the taxes yet.
H: My accountant would like to know blah blah
W: Ok well I am filing blah blah
H: how is work going?
W: It’s going did I tell you I have an interview Wed?
M: nope with whom
W: blah blah I don’t think I will take it though. It’s less money than I am making now.
M: oh D is cooking dinner for me tomorrow night. I am eating peanut butter and jelly sandwich and a hardboiled egg that is all she can make. She made me a hardboiled egg already and she was a typical woman. I had to tell her 20 times it was great and she kept saying yeah right you don’t like it.
W: LOL yeah you have to tell her as soon as you eat it that you like it. Don’t wait for her to ask you if not she feels like you don’t like it.
We spoke for about 45 minutes about D and school. Then I started venting about work a little bit and she gave me some suggestions as to how to handle my current dilemma. I thanked her and told her I would take her suggestions and appreciated her input. Then it turned for her
W: Well at least you are getting promoted next month.
M: I hope so
W: I am still trying to figure out a job I like. At this rate it will take me 30yrs to get out of debt. Well I know what I have to do but I am dreading doing it. That is to get two jobs and I will have no life, even less than what I have now. Working on this resume is proving to be really hard. I can only use the library computer and my work hours and library hours don’t mesh. I am tired of being my S and M overdraft protection also. My mom I understand she is on a fixed income but my sister has a H and she can’t manage her finances.
M: Why doesn’t her H help her out
W: Cause he makes her feel like sh!t every time she ask puts her down and lowers her self esteem. I know she makes good money and he does not help at all. He just makes her feel worse.
H: I see. Sounds like you are driving around you are not going home?
W: Looking for a place to eat. I eat out mostly which tears my stomach up but buying groceries has become so expensive so I am just driving around my town in circles. Some days I am like yay look at me I am making it on my own and other days not so much. It’s not fair H because I was a good W I was good to your D I was good to your mom I was good to your family and a lot of good that did me.
M: You were good. The best. You are a good woman all around
W: Yeah I know and now look at my life almost 30yrs not a pot to pi$$ in living in an apartment with stuff that does not belong to me. I can land a better job outside of this town but then again I can’t afford to move so I can’t look elsewhere. I thought maybe I would buy a house but that was just wishful thinking.
M: Have you been to the restaurant where I proposed again since you went with friend?
W: He!! No
M: Well who knows maybe one day I will invite you back there
W: Maybe
The convo was very somber and she was depressed we spoke for about two hours and the following was the last 5-10 minutes.
W: I don’t know why we did not work out H and I am sorry it turned out this way for you and for me
I was quiet.
W: When we talk I think that what u want me to say is for me to say I want to try again
H: I know you don’t want that I just enjoy talking to you. You are a good friend to me and your voice is soothing to me
I was quiet again
W: Why do I get the feeling you want to say more
M: There is a lot I would say but not today
W: Anything you have not said before?
M: Oh I don’t know. I still might have some stuff to say that I have not said
W: You want to give me the cliff version?
M: No cause then I would get the cliff answer
W: Oh so it’s a question
M: No more of a statement
W: and you don’t want to make it?
M: No not at this time. You are tired and I have kept you on the phone long enough.
W: Ok H we will talk again have a good night
That was it. Again I edit some because I am not going to post of the small talk we made for 2 hours. This was the first time we have spoken in almost two weeks. She sounded very somber and very depressed and I did feel bad for her at one point she said
W: I am not telling you this for you to feel sorry for me or to get your pity
M: I know
That was it. Anyways………………………………………………………………….
2......
It wasn't a horrible conversation and it wasn't a confetti throwing conversation. It sounded to me that she believes what she has done is the right thing to do in her head, but her heart is telling her something else but she is still extremely guarded. And, she is still not ready to even shed a brick from that wall she has built. Control, control, control.
Without looking into it too deeply, do you think there is any merit to what she hinted at with the filing?
I think it's a total mind F* how we let a piece of paper define us; married or divorce - it's just a damn piece of paper.
Hang in 2 - my prayers are with you.
2Step -
I think you're going to save it. Overall, I think she realizes now she made a major mistake and I think she's ready to listen. I think you're going to save it.
LIS
I dont know 2 step. She sounds depressed about her current state of affairs and may be hinting that you come rescue her in the future if it doesnt work out.
I dont think she really knows what she wants at this stage. She may be thinking that all things considered, she was better off back with you but does that mean that she loves you and wants you back for you. Not for her bad sitch.
And this is what you will have to struggle with and what she I think is struggling with.
If only she could understand that the old marriage is dead and to start fresh.
It does sound somewhat encouraging but also, she sounds a little desperate and we should NEVER rescue them because they have failed.
9
If only she could understand that the old marriage is dead and to start fresh.
It does sound somewhat encouraging but also, she sounds a little desperate and we should NEVER rescue them because they have failed.
9
I wish all our WAS's would realize that the old M is dead and to give us LBS's another try.
I agree we should never rescue them when they have failed. We have failed them too and that's why maybe they felt they had to leave.
W: When we talk I think that what u want me to say is for me to say I want to try again
Maybe because....
M: Have you been to the restaurant where I proposed again since you went with friend?
W: He!! No
M: Well who knows maybe one day I will invite you back there
W: Maybe
IDK, maybe this will work for you, but I think the best thing is for her to feel more and more comfortable with you. Someone she can just talk to right now. Let her vent about her problems, I think that is good for you. But IMO ANY pressure will only have her back away right now.
Hope you're doing well man. I know this is one of the wildest rides any of us have ever been on.
It is interesting that your W was the one that transitioned the convo to R talk. It seems that this is the case most of the time too.
Are you reporting that accurately? If so, I think that it is good.
I think that this shows that she thinks about M/R with you A LOT...
Maybe Gypsy is right... her head is convinced that she is doing the right thing, but her heart disagrees...
In any case, Country is most definitely right... your place right now is to be there for her... be her friend...
Her BEST friend.
BITS
Denver
Well, it wasn't a horrible convo, and it wasn't all sunshine either.
Good to see that she's realizing the single life isn't all she hoped for lol.
H: I am good. Hey did you file already?
W: Yeah I filed. Those are the papers you signed remember.
H: I mean the taxes.
W: Oh LOL. No I have not filed the taxes yet.
Great job on not taking the bait and getting into a heavy R convo here!!!
Great job on listening to her advice and thanking her and all. That's good stuff.
There's a lot of good in this. Look below the surface and keep focused on the positives.
W: Why do I get the feeling you want to say more
M: There is a lot I would say but not today
W: Anything you have not said before?
M: Oh I don’t know. I still might have some stuff to say that I have not said
W: You want to give me the cliff version?
M: No cause then I would get the cliff answer
W: Oh so it’s a question
M: No more of a statement
W: and you don’t want to make it?
M: No not at this time. You are tired and I have kept you on the phone long enough.
W: Ok H we will talk again have a good night
This part of the convo seems very positive to me....seems like she is looking for you to say something to her...and I don't think she's trying to provoke something negative that she can turn back on you. Stay patient and positive 2step...become the saint.
zen:
This convo was sad to me because I felt she had a lot of weight and was really feeling the separation. Almost some regret I would dare guess. I am not mind reading but I do know my W and sometimes she is having a good day and sometimes not so good. Yesterday was not a good day.
Lis:
From your mouth to Gods ears. You have said that since the beginning.
9:
I agree with this sentiment very much. Nothing I can do for her at this point. Sad really.
Denver:
I expected to talk about taxes for about 5 min and then hang up. I did not expect the convo to turn into R but as it does sometimes it did. And yes most of the time she talks about it.
Country:\
The comment about the restaurant was actually not a stand alone comment it was part of the overall convo. I have to edit the post or no one would read it. It was not intented as pressure at all she did not take it as such.
Navy:
Glad to see you are still visiting the boards. I know you must be busy patching things up in your own R so I appreciate you taking the time. As far as what you pointed out I have to agree with you. That part of the convo seemed very positive to me also.
Well, it wasn't a horrible convo, and it wasn't all sunshine either.
Good to see that she's realizing the single life isn't all she hoped for lol.
H: I am good. Hey did you file already?
W: Yeah I filed. Those are the papers you signed remember.
H: I mean the taxes.
W: Oh LOL. No I have not filed the taxes yet.
Great job on not taking the bait and getting into a heavy R convo here!!!
Great job on listening to her advice and thanking her and all. That's good stuff.
There's a lot of good in this. Look below the surface and keep focused on the positives.
Michelle are you back from training yet? I agree this convo was actually very positive for me, now I have been here long enough that one day can be like a year when it comes to emotions so I don't expect much today. Although she has texted me a few times already today.
Getting her input is important to me, it always has been but now I let her know that I am listening to her which is a big difference.
1 step then 2 then 3 then 4
I am back for the moment. My wonderful new CO decided to throw me on another exercise without asking me. So I leave Saturday for two weeks. Be back April 17th. Not sure what kind of facilities there will be (i.e. no clue if I'll have internet), not even actually sure where I'll be except somewhere in Florida.
I need your CO's number Michelle because you leaving for 2 weeks is unsat!! What am I suppose to do without you for 2 weeks. Well check in if you can ok.
I will be posting an update in a little bit
Don't worry 2step, I'll still be here to give you crap. What? Not the same?
Haha. You are telling me! I hope I have internet there!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So I am driving to work tomorrow morning and I get the following text
W: Hi...I have to pay in to the IRS since M filing separate is the highest tax bracket and I have no deductions...I'm so upset
M: I am sooo sorry W. How much do u have to pay?
W: And I am sorry but this makes me a little angry with you....But whatever it is I don't have it
M: Would you like to have &^%$ look at the taxes? You know we are filing for last yr we could file M and split it right down the middle if that is ok with you. I would hate to for you to take an IRS hit. He won't charge you
W: I'll think about it
A few minutes later
W: No offense but I don't have complete trust in u when it comes to taxes
Anyone who has been aroud for awhile will understand that last comment.
No response from me about ten min later
W: Now u would hate for me to take an IRS hit?
M: Everything can be checked by you if you don't like the way it looks you can change it. I understand if you feel uncomfortable though it's just an option
W: I will think about it
The day passes and about 6PM I get the phone call I have been waiting for all day
W: Hey I have to pay over $300 bucks
M: Man that [censored]. Well my offer stands I am already paying the accountant to do my taxes adding you will not cost any more money. You can check everything before we submit and if you don't like it then back out and have your accountant do the taxes
W: yeah but it's freaking BS H. Why should I trust you to begin with regarding taxes? You got us in the damn mess to begin with. I don't have that money. NO! I would rather borrow the money and pay it myself I don't trust you with the taxes. I can do it myself. I just don't get why I gotta pay in.
M: Ok not really sure why the loyalty to your accountant
W: Why the loyalty?? Because she is not going to screw me because she was doing my taxes before you during you and after you. She is not going to screw me like you did. SHe is going to take care of me. That was your job but you were too damn selfish to do it. You always wanted to weezel your way out of paying the taxes. Always looking for a break. Why couldn't you just do it the honest way like everyone else. No doing your finance company always looking for a deductions. You wanted to not pay taxes that is why we always owed money.
M: I am just saying that accountant left us owing every year. The new guy we used last year was good. Buddy and his wife always get money back
W: That's your freaking problem. Always worried about what this person is doing and what that person is saying. if you brother told you to jump off a bridge you would do it no questions asked. If your Bro, your Sis your Mom Your buddy anyone but your W. You listen to everyone but your W. Because I was soooo stupid. I did not know what I was talking about. I never knew what I was talking about. It is not fair. I was a good W. I was good to you. I was good to your D. I was good to your mother. I was good to your family. I was good to your nephews. All I ever wanted was 5 minutes of your time and that was too much for you. And what did I get in return my F^%$#@ life is crap right now. You were too busy being prideful when your business was going down to go out and get a job. I had to work 50hrs a week to keep us afloat. The only reason you are at the job you are now is because I had to bluff you by threating to leave in order for you to get off your a$$ if not you would still be holding on to that business. Worried about yourself and only you. Not me and not your family. Sorry Jody prob warned you about this I get off on one thing and it leads to a bunch of other things.
I was quiet this whole time
W: and your silence tells me I am right. You know I am right.
M: I agree I made you feel that way W. I am sorry about that. I can't go back and change any of it. I made mistakes along the way but I have learned from those mistakes. Everything I have ever done has been for you and for D and I understand how you felt like you do. I know the IRS was a big problem but that is why I took the debt off of you and put it on me. I was my debt so I took it
W: It was your debt and you took it because it was the right thing to do. I should never have been put in that position. But no stupid W keeping her mouth shut when I knew it was wrong. My biggest problem is I was too scared of confrontation. WAS being the key word in that statement.
M: Well nothing I can do about that now. In hindsight yes I should prob had left the company sooner. Sorry I did not. I took the debt because it was right for me to. I learned my lessons on that stuff. W hates me and I owe 15K
W: I don't freaking hate you
M: well that is good so i guess I still owe the IRS 15K.
W: I am in such and such place and my sister just pulled up I gotta go
M: Ok. Well the offer stands if you like please let me know
W: I will think about it
Convo was about 30 minutes and I think I covered it all. Overall I am not upset or depressed just her lashing out. I will give her till Friday to decide about the taxes. In reality it works in both our favors to do it this way.
From the house of the 2step that's all
Wow. Simply wow.
She's quite the entitled princess, isn't she?
Starsky
Is there some reason her accountant can't do the taxes so you can file M joint?
So I am driving to work tomorrow morning and I get the following text
You have been sitting on a time machine all the while and didn't let us use? Come on!
Is there some reason her accountant can't do the taxes so you can file M joint?
This seems like a very logical solution. File jointly but use her CPA. win win?
Is there some reason her accountant can't do the taxes so you can file M joint?
NO WAY. Every year her CPA did our taxes I owed money. I am not sure why all I know is that for the first time in 4 yrs we used a different CPA last year and we had no problems. She was in OK for 2 months prior to the year ending and she owes the state of OK money???? WTH!! I would not let that lady balance the change in my car let alone my taxes.
I will pay the accountant.
I will split the return.
She can check everything before it is submitted and still pull out if she wants. As it is I stand to get money and she stands to pay. Really I think my offer is the better option here
You have been sitting on a time machine all the while and didn't let us use? Come on!
Dude I never spell check LOL my bad. If I had a time machine you guys would all be invited
W: Why the loyalty?? Because she is not going to screw me because she was doing my taxes before you during you and after you. She is not going to screw me like you did. She is going to take care of me. That was your job but you were too damn selfish to do it. You always wanted to weasel your way out of paying the taxes. Always looking for a break. Why couldn't you just do it the honest way like everyone else. No doing your finance company always looking for a deductions. You wanted to not pay taxes that is why we always owed money.
Weird how you and her have such totally different perspectives on this CPA. Why do you think that is?
I will pay the accountant.
I will split the return.
She can check everything before it is submitted and still pull out if she wants. As it is I stand to get money and she stands to pay. Really I think my offer is the better option here
But her opinion is going to be the one that matters here. In order to file MFJ you have to have her cooperation.
So what are you going to do if she doesn't think it is the better option? Because she is right, married filing separately is the worst filing status you can have. Is MFS going to be better than letting her CPA do the taxes?
Why do you think that is?
Her accountant is also her sister's MIL. I am sure she is a great accountant but anytime I use her I pay.
So what are you going to do if she doesn't think it is the better option? Because she is right, married filing separately is the worst filing status you can have.
I know she is right that MFS is the worse way to file, however I am getting a return filing this way. She is the one paying.
Is MFS going to be better than letting her CPA do the taxes?
Her CPA is NOT touching my taxes. I will be paying off a loan for the next 4 yrs thanks to her great advice. I am OK filing this way. I am getting money back for the first time in a decade. As you know michelle we only get taxed on straight pay but 70% of our income is non taxable. So I am ok. I am extending an olive branch to her giving up my return so that she does not have to pay and can walk away with some cash.
Very cool that you are getting a return filing MFS!
[censored] that she would have to pay with MFS, but that is her choice.
That is much clearer to me now. Sorry if I missed any details the first time around.
Ultimately the choice is hers. That was nice of you to offer to file MFJ to help her out. Guess we'll see whether pride keeps her from accepting your offer lol.
Holy Smokes 2....where was the popcorn when I needed it?!
She is still harboring ALOT of anger at everyone and everything. It's everyone else's fault she is in the position she is in. How come the WAS's never see their part in all of it? Or maybe she is starting to see the reprecussions of her decision to leave. Pride and Stuborness - what a combo!
And with my sitch, I know that MFS IS in fact the worse way you could file. Thankfully at least my H realized that with our taxes. She will see that MFJ is the better way to go as well.
I think you done good! You kept in DB mode when you could've REALLY gone off. You stayed the course. The new and improved 2 shined through. Great job!
2step
You are falling on your sword on this one.
Don't.
You made a mistake in the past.
Say you're sorry.
If she brings it up again.
Say I'm sorry.
If she brings it up again.
Say I'm sorry.
You get the point she wants a diiferent answer and you gave her one.
You feel guilty so you're going to sacrifice yourself for her entitlement.
Tell her you undertand how she feels and that you will be filing separately.
Done.
She can't spew at you much more than she has so just go ahead and take the arrow and then pull it out and move on.
It can't get much simpler than M filing separate. She takes her hit and you take yours.
You're not going to win this one.
She is p!ssed so let her deal with it.
Nothing you can do.
Gritter
The offered was made so I can't go back on it now. However it will have an expiration date. If she would like to continue to be stubborn and not take me up on that offer that's fine with me.
She has till Monday to make up her mind.
Filing MJ is much better for the both of us.
Either way I am going to be fine.
In the future we will not be having long conversation that attack my character unless she has new material.
I have understood.
I have asked for forgiveness
I have forgiven myself for not being perfect.
I am not mad at her AT ALL but I don't see how sitting on the phone while she rants about her tax situation is a benefit to either saving or not saving my M.
2Step -
Be impeccable with your word as you have always been. Do not go back on your offer at this point. Ride it out. You're doing great.
LIS
Look man I am not saying be mean about it.
I am trying to get you to see
She made a choice.
That choice means certain things.
She filed for D right?
Now she is making it your fault that it didn't happen by the end of the tax year?
And you offer to rescue her.
Nice gesture BUT is it good?
For you?
We're having 4 days of straight rain here. I think it might be YOUR fault.
Damn you 2step!
Believe me I understand. I offered to pay for my W's health insurance. So she could keep seeing her therapist.
Nice guy?
Yeah I am.
BUT
If I am honest I was saving her from the cosnequences of her choices.
There is nice and then there is enabling. Or sacrificing yourself for the M.
Which one is this?
You need to figure that out my friend.
Somewhere in there is 2step. The new and improved 2step.
What does he do?
And which guy will she stop unloading on?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Well today brings a very special update W called a few minutes ago
W: hey what are you doing
M: Driving whats up
W: I tried calling you last night but you did not answer
M: yeah my cell phone is acting up. For some reason at home I am not getting any calls. I am not really sure what is going on. You should have called the house. What are you doing?
W: I had some stuff to do this morning. I know it's April Fools day but there is something I have to tell you. I have been debating for several days on how to tell you but I have to tell you. I just don't want to do it while you are driving.
M: Ok. I am fine what is it
W: I just feel like I have to tell you H. The judged signed the D today. You will be getting the paperwork in the mail. I am sorry. I don't want to hurt you.
M: Wow. Did not expect that.
W: What did you think was going to happen here. What were your expectations? You signed the paperwork what did you think I was going to do?
M: I guess I should not be surprised. I just did not expect it to be this quick. I signed them because I respected what you wanted but I did not want this. This is what you wanted. I guess now you have it
W: I did not want this for us. I needed this. I needed to do this.
I was quiet
W: Silence......
M: I don't know what to say
W: Ok. I am sorry I hurt you
M: Have a good day at work W
I hung up. A few minutes later she called again
W: I am sorry about the other day also. I did not mean to take it out on you.
M: That's ok
W: Say something. Anything.
M: what is there left to say?
W: ok.
M: I'll talk to you
W: ok
So there you have it. No more speculation. No more wondering. No more..................
Now before everyone jumps on and says it's only over if you want it to, don't give up. Every man and women has to decide when to move on. Every person on this board reaches a point that they are not willing to go past. Reality is reality and we each must face it on our own time.
I am enternally grafeful for the support and love I have received on this board. You people, who I will never meet, have been my closest friends throughout my darkess hour.
It has been a long road. I have learned lessons that I will carry with me for ever.
Today I am numb. I am shattered. I am heartbroken. I have zero Hope. Today is my darkess hour.
I know the sun will come out tomorrow. I know I will recover. I know I am a better person.
But
Today I see no light in my world. I see no future no past no present, time is not moving. I am in suspended animation.
A thief came and stole my soul my heart and I don't know that I will ever fully recover.
What am I scared of?
Me? I am scared of everything. I am scared of who I am, what has happened, what I feel, but most of all I am scared of waking up tomorrow and never feeling for the rest of my life the way I felt for my W.
I am here again, in a familiar place feeling something I've felt before, wondering why it's still here, why I didn't deal with it more fully before, BUT I know that if I need a second chance at it I will get it. I also know that if it comes up again, I'll recognize it sooner and deal with it more readily. This is growt, AND, I am happy to be alive.
I can't talk to her anymore, it's not that I am mad at her it is just then when I talk to her I realize how much I love her, and when I realize how much I love her I realize I can't have her and that makes me love her even more.
So BITS and Friends. There you have it.
I am numb
This is 2step signing out...................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................
Thinking about you and praying for you, as always.
You're such a special person, 2step.
Hi 2Step. I am so sorry man.
Last time you said that you signed the release waiver and sent it off. Is this what the Judge signed? or is it the divorce decree?
Either way man, sometimes i guess a WAS needs that finality to realize what they are throwing away. I think your wife will too.
my dearest 2.....
my heart feels your sadness and pain. There are no words that can really offer any comfort during this time. Please know that I am sending you a BIG hug and saying prayers for you and D.
You have been a great friend to me and have offered me inspiration. I will never forget your kindness.
You are an example that we can change even when we are tested to the max. You never waivered. Don't let this define who you've become.
I have no words of wisdom rigt now. Just want you to know you have another person out there who cares and knows what you're going through.
We are here for you 2step. Give yourself a week before you make any decisions though. I am so sorry this happened to you.
I am really sorry it has gotten to this point, 2step.
My thoughts are with you 2step. I hope and pray that life blesses you with the happiness you deserve.
Man, that really s*cks, 2step. I'm so sorry, dude.
I know this sound INCREDIBLY trite, but it really WILL get better. I promise.
C'mon, cheer up, and we'll go get liquored up, you and me, and cruise for chicks in my Gran Torino. Whaddayasay??
Starsky
I am so sorry 2Step. You and I have been together on this over the past few months. I am still here for you, man. I do want to say that Brian is right, take a few days, hell, a few weeks, before you make any decisions on how you want to move forward. This does NOT need to be the end unless that is what YOU decide.
BITS
Denver
2step, 2step
you are right about this: tomorrow the sun will shine"
you will make it through this
one foot in front of the other
you can do this
i do feel your pain and please lean on your BITS whenever you need to
we are all here for you
anytime
2step,
Buddy, there is nothing that I can say about your sitch that you have not already heard. So, instead of talking about your sitch, I want to talk about you. I want to talk about the man I have come to know as 2step. 2step is a leader. 2step is a thinker. 2step is an innovator and a protector of his friends and his marriage. Every group needs a "sergeant-at-arms" who looks out for the best interest of all involved. A person who serves as a "rock" when the bullets begin to fly. You are that person to the BITS, 2. You have been our wisdom, our support, our foundation. Now, go be that person for yourself. Be that rock for 2step. Yes, take a couple of days, regroup and decide what is best for you. Then go after it. Whatever you choose, we will be here for you and will support you all the way. You are a giant among men. Hold your head high, buddy. She can't do anything to you that you can get up from. NOTHING!!!
FOBD
Dear 2Step
I am so sorry and I wish there was something to take away the pain.
I imagine that you would rather break a bone. I know I would.
I have only a prayer to offer for you, and my deepest sympathy, and these words:
"The deeper that sorrow carves into your being, the more joy you can contain." Kahlil Gibran
2 step...I am so sorry.
It is a very good sign that she called you and cared about your feelings. I imagine it doesn't feel that way, though.
Hang in there, it WILL be ok.
2Step
I guess you really did sign out huh?
Hey man I am not here to convince you to stick this out but you knew the clock was ticking.
It happened the day it happened. What if it happened sooner? Or later?
And you were still here.
Digging it out.
Why?
Only you can say and only you can say when you're done.
I might suggest that with the courage and strength you have shown us here in the face of adversity...
It should not be because someone banged a gavel.
You decide when this is over.
YOU.
2Step:
Look at the responses you received on this post. Look at how many people care about you and actually genuinely care about 2 step the man. FOBD stated some really nice things about you and although I havent gotten to know you on the level as some of the bits; you have always given me sage advice and helped me through.
Its too bad that your Wife cant look at this board and see how much you have changed and how people look forward to you responses. How could she seriously walk away from that.
As True gritter says, its only over when you want it to be. She will come out of whatever she is going through and I have talked to some people that have gone through divorce and they sometimes really regret it.
If I was laying Vegas odds on this, I would bet alot of money that your wife WILL regret this someday. Will she be LUCKY enough to have you interested enough to giver her another chance when that happens.
I pray that whatever happens, it will be the best for 2step.
All the best buddy.
9
2step-
I am thinking about you and praying for you.
You really handled yourself well and be proud of yourself for that.
We will be here for you to help you through this.
You are not alone.
2step
Take a deep breath. Then another. Then another.
I know it hurts. I know you feel hopeless right now.
But it's not. Take a deep breath and just give yourself some time.
First and foremost I would like to thank everyone for their continued support. I am still breahething and I am still alive.
I had bought a ticket to go to OK a few weeks before I got the news on Friday. After the initial shock I decided to stick to my trip and visit my sister and niece who also live in a nearby town.
I had not spoken to W since that convo on Friday and did not plan to speak to her again. While on the phone with my final session with Jody W texted
W: Would it be ok if I call you tonight? If u say no I understand
No response from me a few minutes later i get this
W: Ok I won't be calling until u say its ok
My response about an hour later
M: Please give me a few days XW. Maybe around Wed after work if you would like to call
W: Understood. You call me when or if ur ready. I am sorry H
For a long time she had been complaining about the fact that I did not allow her to take the PC when she left and instead gave her a laptop that did not work. She was having a hard time with doing her resume because of it. So the week before my trip I ordered a laptop from Bes Buy and sent it to her. She received it on Monday which is the reason for the text.
Let me be clear. I bought the computer because she was struggling. I know it is not my problem. I bought the laptop because I gave her unconditional love and did not expect a phone call from her or anything. I did it because it was right.
Did I regret it after I got the news? No.
I arrived in OK on Wed. Spent a few hours with some friends and family. I sent her a text
M: What time do you get off today?
W: I'm off but at dinner with sister and BIL
M: I was going to call tonight but I guess I will call tomorrow night. What time do u get off tomorrow night?
W: What time tonight?
No response from me. I was busy.
W: I get off at 7 tomorrow
No response from me again
W: So what time tonight did u plan on calling
M: When you are free
W: I'll let you know
About an hour later
W: I am free
I was busy chatting with some friends so about 30 minutes later I called
M: Hi
W: Hi
M: You get a package?
W: I did thank you. You did not have to do that.
M: I know.
W: I wanted to talk to you
M: Good. You want to talk tonight or tomorrow over dinner
W: What? How? You are in town?
M: Yep
W: Why? Why did you come? Why do you keep doing this? I told you not to come unannounced. It's not fair.
M: You don't have to see while I am here. As you know my sister and nephews live here. So does my BF so I will be spending time with them. If you want to see me ok if not ok
W: No that's fine you are prob half way here anyways.
M: Nope. I am driving but I can turn the car around just as easily.
W: No just come by.
I met with her at her place and we went for a drive. We spent talking three hours. She was upset at first then kind of depressed. Some topics to point out
W: Why don't you just ask what you want to ask right off the bat so we can move past this
M: What is it that I want to ask?
W: If there someone esle?
M: Did not cross my mind. Do you think I would be here if I thought that? But since you brought it up. Is there?
W: No. There is no one else. I am not interested in that all. I know you might have thought that because I went through with the D but that is something I needed to do for closure for me. It was my fresh start and I was tired of being in limbo
M: Did you get the closure you were looking for?
W: No.I am still in shock. I know changing my last name bothered you but I would of kept it if your XW would not have kept it.
M: I am ok with that.
We spoke for a few hours I cleared some things up regarding her rewriting of history. We kissed several times. We ended up back at her apartment. She asked me to come up. We sat on the couch and talked. I hugged her and she fell asleep on my chest. I feel asleep also.
Around 4AM she woke me up. Asked me if I was ok to drive or if I wanted to stay on the couch. I told her I had better leave. It was a very nice evening.
Next day Thursday was a different story.
She called during lunch and basically was very upset
W: You expect to show up here and me cancel all my plans to see you. I tried like hell to save our M and now you are too late. You should have tried when we were together. Now you want to come up here and I am suppose to drop everything I am doing and see you. It is not fair."
I won't post the whole convo because it is nothing new.
M: Like I said you don't have to see me while I am here.
W: I am just tired of having the conversation over and over again. I am exhausted and it is not fair.
M: Your tired of having the convo over and over? Good. Because I am tired of saying the same thing over and over.
She called twice during lunch. Said she would call that evening after work.
Around 9 she called again
W: What are you doing
M: Buddies house
W: Well here is the deal take it or leave it
M: Didn't know I was buying a car. Ok.
W: I can't see you on Sat because it is my sisters Bday. I can't see you on Sunday because I've had plans with my mom. I will see you on Monday and Tuesday after work. If you would like to come by tonight I will see you.
M: Do you want to see me or no. Like I said. You owe me nothing and you don't have to see me.
W: No you can come over to tonight if you want
M: Not the question I asked
W: Yes come by tonight
So I did. The very first thing she said when I got there after I had taken my jacket off and put on her couch and sat down was
W: I don't know what your expectation are. I don't know that I will ever want to work things out with you. You want some crystal ball telling me how I am going to feel in a month in 6 months in a year or two. I don't know. You keep showing up here and it is not fair that you do this to me. So I am not sure what you expect out of this visit. I am not moving back.
M: Sounds pretty clear to me. What I need to do is let you go.
I grab my jacket and keys and was prepared to leave. I have done my part. Time for me to live for me.
W: You are leaving?
M: I think you have been cleared. I don't want to exhaust you anymore.
W: You can stay. I deal with things by talking I have to talk about them.
M: I know that.
W: You have said nothing new so I don't know what there is to talk about
M: I suppose nothing.
W: Why did you not listen to me when I was there? I would have given anything to hear those words while I was there. It took me leaving for you to see it.
M: You made a choice. You could have moved in Jersey. Let me ask you a question. Do you think we would have been back together if you would have stayed in Jersey?
W: Prob. But nothing would have changed
M: Maybe not. Maybe this is what we needed. Everything I did I did for you. Maybe I went about it wrong. But NEVER in our Ten yrs did I do anything thinking about my needs before yours or D. Name me 1 thing just one that you wanted from me that I never did. One thing.
W: Your mom moving out
M: Ok I wanted her out 3 times I did not want her in the first place. You talked me into moving her in and you talked me into keeping her in.
W: You moved her to Jersey two weeks after we got D.
M: Ok I moved her to Jersey for her to get an apt in a different town because we could not afford to pay the 120 a week for day care. You wanted to quit your job? No. We could not afford it. She was suppose to get an apt and take care of her after school. Did I knew her H would leave? NO. Neither did you. Ok. YOu asked her to come stay with us. You know why she stayed with us. Because she thought our M was the most secure. You made her feel safe. When she asked if she was causing M problems you told her no. The problem was not her it was us.
W: You always criticized me as a mother. I never did anything right.
M: I told you how great of a mother you were. Not enough I know.How much of our fights were about D and how many were because of the stress you were under with the mom living with us.
W: Prob most of it.
M: Exactly. It was not what you were doing with D it was the stress that we were both living in. So remove that where is our problem.
W: So what happens when she moves back in 6 months
M: Not just my mother but anyone would ever live with me again. 5 months separated now divorced you feel better? You have healed?
W: No. I think I feel a little better but my life is not great. It is not happy. I have sh!t to my name.
M: 5 months later we realized the world did not collapse and the world did not end. This is all a choice just a choice. We choose to make it work or we choose to be like every other stat and make new mistakes with someone new.
W: I am not even thinking about someone new. I will never get re-married. I don't know how or when but you seem to have passed me in the healing process. I am just not where you are right now. I am still angry and still have some resentment.
M: You think I am not scared? You think it was not scary for me to get on that plane? You broke my heart not once but twice. You took the breathe right out of my lungs on Friday. But I am still here. I am still here for the woman I M and for the woman I love. I am choosing to. How long I don't know.
W: I know you are hurting and I am sorry I hurt you.
M: Let me ask you a simple question W. Do you love me?
W: Yes...............but I don't want to kick you while you are down.
M: I am not down. What? You are not "in love" with me?
W: I don't know
M: Yeah well wecome to the club. I don't know either. I do know I love you. I do know it is hard work. I think what you fail to realize is that I have as much to be angry with you about as you do with me. I have chosen to forgive you.
W: What you want is for me to forgive and forget. I am not ready for that yet
M: No. Forgive yes. You can choose to forgive anytime you wish. Forget? Never!!! We forget let's not talk anymore because we have accomplished nothing. We can never forget.
W: I just don't know how it would work. How can it
M: Because together we can accomplish anything. YOu and I. Commitment is key. Why do you think I am here. The Divorced could of stopped me from coming. I could of not gone to the airport I could of just stayed home. I came. Because a judge does not determine how I feel about you. I can love you all I want. No one determines that not even you. Whether you love me back or not is up to you.
W: What if we go back to the same thing again. What if you do the same things you did before. No one has ever made me feel as bad about myself as you did.
M: I screwed up. I have owned it. I have apologized. My changes have not been for you. They were never about you. They are about me and only me that is why I know we will never make the same mistakes again. Will we have problems? Sure. If and when we ever decide to start again and we M 30yrs I will break your heart many times along the way because I will never be perfect. What we do with that is what determines who we are. The better comes afer the worse.
W: Well it doesn't get much worse than this. I am not the same woman either H. I am not. I have also changed
M: God I hope not because if you were the same woman why in the world would I want you back. We have to be better and we CAN do it. Getting back together is as scary to me as losing you. My future without you is dark. I will survive and I will live on. So will you. I want to live on with you. I want to grow old with you. I am a better person when I am with you. You were my sunrise and sunset. I choose to still stand but I will be fine either way but never complete.
W: Getting back together does not scare me like it does you. I think that would be the easy part. My life really [censored] right now. I think just coming back because my life [censored] is the easy way out. That part does not scare me. I just don't know how.
M: If you would get back together with me I would not want you back.
W: I guess if things go back I can always leave again. I had the strengh once I guess I could have the strengh again.
M: Well hold up there. I never question your strengh but I would consider getting back together if we are in it for the long haul, not with the mentality that you can leave. Of course if I fail you, you are free to go, but if you come in with the mentality that you can leave at anytime then don't bother.
W: I would never do that H. You know that. That is what scares me. I have a lot to process.
W: But I think about so many things what about Thanksgiving or Xmas when we have family get to togethers. I coould not be in the same room as your mother right now.
M: Anger will fade and you and I would need some time to get to know each other again
W: What about my family. I can't go back to seeing them once a year. I can't do it and I won't. All vacations were always were you wanted to go.
M: I will commit to you that we would makea greater effort to see your family more. i will come with you and they can come see us. Your family broke my heart when they wanted us apart in 08' instead of cheering for us to make it they cheered against us. As much anger as you have towards my mom I have towards your Family. But I am willing to move forward and do my part.
By this time In the convo I was rubbing her feet. I was prepared to say my goodbye for the evening and she stood close to me looking into my eyes.
M: You know I could stay the night
W: LOL you want to spend the night
M: I'd keep my clothe on and we can just cuddled haven't done that in 5 months
W: LOL I haven't either
M: I know. Watta ya say
Long pause. Looking into my eyes smiling
W: It's only day two. I won't see you again till Monday not tonight. I don't think so. I have a lot to think about. I have to process a lot.
M: I understand. Gave her a kiss goodnight and a hug.
That was all the main points. I am prepared to leave Wed and move on with my life. What more can I do. Will I still be here 1 yr 2 yr from now. I don't think so. I have done some growth throughout this the judge does not determine how I feel. Friday came and not contact Sat a tornadoe came through town. No comms from her. I sent her a text
M: Don't know if you know but a tornado came through this town I don't know if it hit your town but I hope you are ok.
W: I am thank you
Kind of irritated about that. Drove around today and looked at the damage and it was pretty bad. I am upset that even though we agreed not to see each other a simple text or call to make sure I did not die would of been thoughtful.
Next time I expect to see her will be on Monday. Her mood when I see her is a wild guess but I will not affect me. I am here till Wed and when I leave I leave knowing I have done everything to try and save my M.
One final note.
Before I left I asked if she would speak to Jody again. She said she would.
I told her I would do it if she would agree to having 3 sessions not just one.
She agreed again.
Friedns I am sorry for my absense but I have needed this time to think. I will catch up with all of your sitch but please be patient.
Michelle glad to see you back on.
All I can say is WOW! And thats about it. Dont know whether to congratualate you or feel bad for you.
9
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................
holy carp! 2step... like 9... I don't know what to say except that's about as bottom as it gets. Not looking forward to it.
Positive, baby steps. Prayers to you.
Like 9 said....WOW
Heavy stuff 2step. Life, full of craziness.......
ZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz..................
Oh Starsky I am sorry you find my sitch so f&^%$# boring that it puts you to sleep. I believe there are a little over 300K different post on this site you can follow, SO feel free to find someone else to follow along.
As I see it you have provided zero input, support, or adivice on both your post I doubt you would be missed.
Be Sound
2step...
Lots of positives in that story...I need to save some of your quotes for when my W and I start talking about things. Try to stay patient...I know it is extremely hard.
It sounds like she is just starting her journey...it sounds like the ball is in your court to decide if you want to wait for her or not.
2step...
Try to stay patient...I know it is extremely hard.
It sounds like she is just starting her journey...it sounds like the ball is in your court to decide if you want to wait for her or not.
Ditto Navyguy!
Wow 2Step. First off great to hear back from you.
And wow, reading your entire convo, i could have easily replaced your name with mine and your W's with my wife. My wife too has no EA, PA. She too hates my mom and tells me that was a big reason for our situation. She too has lots of resentment and anger as to how i treated her. And yup, it looks like my inlaws too are very much for our D and not against it.
Reading your convo, i have these thoughts.
1: Hope you guys get back together. Seems like your wife is still torn. But she does seem to have feelings for you. Who knows.
2: Seems like my sitch might go the same way. Now i know how to approach my wife once the D gets through
Good luck man!
I wish you the best of luck in your sitch.
Hope things go well for you this week 2step. You must be on pins and needles but stay true to your word.
you will be ok one way or another.
I am a little concerned she may come back for the wrong reasons.
SECURITY.
Hope she comes back cause she missed you and loves you.
9
Guys and gals as you can imagine I have been extremely busy this week. I will be meeting with her sometime tonight. I was suppose to meet with her earlier but when she called I was busy and did not call her back for an hour. She got stuck babysitting because she did not think I would call her back. So now she is waiting on her sister to pick up her niece before I head out. Now I am about to eat dinner. Without all of you I would have never made it this far.
The convo when I finally called her back went like this
M: Hey was up you called
W: yeah i called you when i got off work and texted you but you did not answer. Did not know if you would be free tonight or not so now I am stuck babysitting for now.
M: Well you want to get some dinner or no
W: Well I was hungry so I am eating now. You sound disappointed
M: Nah I am good
W: If it is too late for you we can hang out tomorrow night instead of tonight
M: Up to you does not really matter either way is fine
W: Trying to figure you out
M: LOL Why? I am not that hard. I am not an alien.
W: Yeah you kind are. At least now you are
M: Well am I like the aliens from the movie Cacoon who are nice and friendly or the ones from the scary movie Alien?
W: I don't know yet still trying to figure it out
M: Well I think I am the friendly ones
W: It is like putting a puzzle together
M: LOL well you like puzzles so this should be fun for you.
W: I like the 10 piece puzzles not the 2000 piece puzzles
M: I am like the 7-10 age group puzzles so it should be pretty easy for you.
W: Yeah I am still thinking. Niece is spending time with me so I will call you when she leaves.
M: Ok cool.
I just got a text from her
W: Sister called she is gonna be a little late.
M: Ok your call I'm good either way. I would like to see u but totally up to you
W: Ok I'll let u know.... U can't stay the night tho
M: LOL I'm not that cheap of a date
W: Yes you are LOL
M: I Have self control!! Do You??
W: Yes
M: Booo
Very nice 2Step... very nice.
BITS
Denver
2Step : I am looking to you to get some tips on how to court my wife once the divorce is finalized.
I could be wrong here, but i would have been less friendly than you are. I'd do that so that (1) my wife would know that what she did(divorce) was wrong and (2) So that she knows that i am no longer a puppy dog for her and (3)This time around, make her follow me.
I am trying to understand, is there a reason why you are making yourself so available to her? Is it because it was the other way around before?
2Step : I am looking to you to get some tips on how to court my wife once the divorce is finalized.
I could be wrong here, but i would have been less friendly than you are. I'd do that so that (1) my wife would know that what she did(divorce) was wrong and (2) So that she knows that i am no longer a puppy dog for her and (3)This time around, make her follow me.
I am trying to understand, is there a reason why you are making yourself so available to her? Is it because it was the other way around before?
Karma I am on my way to meet my XW in a little bit but wanted to take a moment to answer your question.
For a long time my XW felt unimportant, not listened to, ignored, like she did not matter, like I could hit the delete button at anytime regarding her and her emotions, and like I took advantage of her kindness by being mean.
Of course none of those things were my intentions I loved her the best way I knew how, but it was not the way she needed.
To turn a cold shoulder, to ignore her call, to be mean will only reinforce her opinion of me.
I make myself available because that is who I have become.
I do care
I do love her still
I do want to comfort if I can
What changed?
I did.
I am OK now and last night I decided not to go see her like we had planned. I was not playing hard to get and I was not doing some secret DB trick. She was upset and I will get into that at a later date because I am short on time. Point I decided not to go because I did not need to go. Two months ago I would never had made that decision. I would have gone and I would have seen her. Yesterday I decided against it.
At this point I am already divorced I am not trying to court my XW back to me. I am not trying to sweep her off her feet. I will get on my plane tomorrow go back to Jersey and move on with my life.
I will always love her. I will always have a special place in my heart for her.
I will not wait.
I will not chase.
I will not beg.
She will travel this journey alone the same as I have. I have been lucky, I have you guys. I hope and pray she finds the same type of support.
I have done all I can do. NOT for her but for myself.
I know what I have become. I know what I am worth.
I also know she is worth it, at least to me. She was a better wife than I was a H at times but we all have to choose what is right for us at any given time.
If she calls in a month or two I will take her call. Not because I want to hear let's try again, But because she deserves it.
I guess the point of all this, is that it doesn't matter how well you "DB" or how well you follow the steps. It means nothing unless you live it because that is who you have become.
She has agreed to talk to Jody 3 times. Great for her. I expect nothing from those phonecalls. I hope they halp her process some of this craziness. If she has those phonecalls and get's off the phone and calls me and says " I don't want to try again" that is perfectly OK with me. Either way I hope it helps her.
I no longer expect to stop the D, that has already happened. I no longer want to talk her into doing anything, now I just live it.
One thing is clear, and I hope that all of you who read this hear me, the WAS's life is
NOT great. They are hurting and they are also thinking. There is
nothing you can do about that, nothing.
They will take their journey on their timetable and come up with whatever results they come up with.
Change for YOU.
Because you have too
Because you want to
Because it is the right thing to do
So you DO NOT repeat those mistakes again with your spouse or without them.
I told her I loved her.
I told her that I did not want the D but I would respect her wishes
I told her I would love her even if she did D me.
I told her I would always be there for her.
Now that the D happened I am going to stop?
Then my words were hallow and meant nothing and all I did was a trick to get her back.
I spoke them.
I meant them.
AND
Now I live them.
Keeping setting expectations for yourself and you will continue to disappoint yourself.
Keep expecting that GAL will get her attention and you will be disappointed
Keep telling yourself you are doing a 180 so she/he can notice, and you are only fooling yourself.
Keep detaching because you think it is what you are SUPPOSE to do and you will hurt more.
When you get to the point that you have faced reality and really live what you have learned...................well my friend you are on your way.
My final gift to my XW is the 3 sessions with Jody. For her!!! NOT for me!!! She is hurting and has no support. I hope that her sessions will help her deal with her anger regardless of what she decides.
Well I lie.
My final gift to her will be the 5 Love Languages because I believe that regardless of which direction her life takes her she will learn a lot from it the same as I did.
I hope this asnwers your question I know it is long.
By the way in true 2step fashion no spell check I don't have time.
Best wishes to all I will catch up when I am back in jersey..
9, country, Michelle, Gritter, Mach, Cat, sandi,Navy, BITS and all others who have fallowed me along, supported me, hit me with 2x4's and have lifting me up when I have been down.
Thank you.
"See" you guys when I get back. I will prob read up tonight but will post when I get back home.
As always, 2step, you are a leader of men. Fine work. I only hope I can do the same...
FOBD
Very nicely said 2step. You are spot with your post.
I think all of us here can hang our hats on the fact that we did not run. We stood tall in our darkest moments to fight the good fight. To fight for what we believe is the right thing to do. To take the road that is less traveled. To pick ourselves off the ground to continue our journeys no matter the outcome in our M, but to become the best people we possibly can.
I wish you nothing but the best 2step.
2Step I really appreciate your taking time to write up your post. All i can say is i am sorry that it has the way it has for you.
Human emotions and relationships are complicated. Logically it does not make any sense that WAS know lil bit on what they can expect after D. They get a lil insight into their spouses new behaviors. Then why not give it another shot?
I don't have much to say, 2step. Sounds like you are doing things right and have arrived where you need to be. Your life is going to be great. She, is her problem now.
Back home in Jersey after a week in OK. Lot's to talk about but since this thread is about to be locked I will begin with a new thread and prob my last.
I will still post for others but I will prob not post a whole lot for myself.
I will still post updates and such but I imagine they will become less and less frequent as time goes on.
No 2, please don't go!! We need you on these boards.
I have enjoyed your insight ...you will be missed.
You have to do what you gotta do 2step. I personally feel honoured to have met someone like you. Your wife has NO idea what she is giving up but call me the eternal optomist.
I see in your future a phone call from OK.
H: This is XW, (cut to the chase) I effed up, if you still want me, can I come back?
I pray I will see this some day 2 step.
All the best.
9