Well, I was just chatting with co worker that is pretty close to my wife.... I know tricky to do because words will get back to her possibly.
Well anyway, she pretty much re assured me that wife is heading for divorce. She kinda acknowledged it without acknowledging it if that makes any sense.
I am really starting to think the wife does have someone else because of all the signs.
She locks her laptop with password
new email accounts that she thinks I do not know about
twitter account that she will nto let me be her friend on
facebook that she deletes posts occasinaly
member of countless "fanfiction story" forums
comments all the time on a friend she used to hang out with before me
foudn out she is moving to texas and that friend will be an hour away from where she is moving
she gets real defensive when I tell her I think she still likes him
ALL......
I am sitting here at work and thinking of how to approach her tonight. Here is what I am thinking of saying to her:
Please read this and let me know fi I should even bother with this crap:
"Unless you can tell me otherwise, it appears you have no desire what so ever to stay or make this work. If you will let me know your true plan then we need to start working on paperwork and plans for separation or divorce, whatever it is you are wanting.
I do not hold a grudge against you for this, it certainly is against my wishes to keep our children together as a family but that is out of my hands."
I do not hold a grudge against you for this, it certainly is against my wishes to keep our children together as a family but that is out of my hands."
I would either reword this sentence or leave it out.
A WAW in an A has to be hit rather hard. You need to make it sound as if it is to your advantage (and the children's) to move ahead without her.
Could you re word it for me Sandi, a suggestion perhaps?
Sandi2,
Should I even bother with this talk? I mean her mind is made up anyway. The only reason for me to do this is to "think" i have some control over the situation, but in reality it will probably just hurt me more again knowing that she is still ready to leave.
Thoughts?
I need to cry soooooo bad
Should I even bother with this talk? I mean her mind is made up anyway. The only reason for me to do this is to "think" i have some control over the situation, but in reality it will probably just hurt me more again knowing that she is still ready to leave.
To be honest, I don't think it would accomplish anything except a fight.
I think I read in your last thread that you had never thought of her having an A until I mentioned it, but if she was you didn't want to know. Don't you feel that you should know the truth? What about the children? Don't they deserve to know the truth? If they are too young to grasp everything right now, they will want to know someday, or else they will think you wanted out as much as the mother.
You have not been able to handle the thoughts of her having an A very well at all. You've been extremely upset, and I understand that, but please don't run from facing the truth...whatever that may be. What if she hasn't made up her mind....like you say she has? What if you are just assuming she has?
If you've decided that you are through with the M, then file. But what about the kids? Would you have a chance at having custody, especially if she has been unfaithful?
If you can get into her email or phone, you need
evidence to know if she's emotionally involved or physcially involved with another man. Yes, she shows
strong signs of being in an A, but
signs are not like solid evidence.
((hugs))
sandi's right.
I wouldn't suggest sending that message either. Talk to her straight and get some answers. Put it in your mind that she is seeing someone and set that fear to rest so if in case she is, you're not going to freak out.
Although if she's like most WAS's, she's liable to deny it.
Oh, yes....knew I was leaving something out. Another reason you need evidence, Scared. Don't just confront her and expect her to be truthful. Some women have reached the stage that they won't try to cover up, but most will deny it......if for nothing more than b/c it's easier at the time.
I already mentioned to you I think that my w denied an OM for over a year. Even when I caught her red handed via text , she still denied it and said it was just words.
Puppy dog tails said it best to me.
Cheaters Lie and they continue to lie.
Know it hurts S2D but as Sandi stated, its better to know the truth.
9
Well I need to sto coming here fir a wile cause you all have me spiraling
Actually this is the time when you need to get advice the most. You're going to need the support now more than ever.
We'll also help you craft a plan of action. You're not the only one who (may) have to deal with OP. Get proof first before you start accusing.
Scared, listen to what everyone is saying. First, no one is saying that your W IS having an A, just that she MAY be having an A. Don't let your imagination start running wild.
If you agree with these opinions and you suspect that she is, you need to find some evidence before confronting her as suggested.
Many of us have gone through the same thing, so you are not alone. So as Bond said, this is an important time to get the support offered here. You may hear stories that frighten you, but remember, those are also not necessarily your story. Just information that may be useful to you.
I know it is hard, but try to stay calm and sane. If you let your emotions control you, you are bound to do something you regret.
Take care.
we talked for a very long time last night and she seems to really think seperation will help out relationship. I do not understand seperation because I think if we cannot resolve issues together, how in the hell can we while being apart.
She said she wants me to treat her as a friend and then things will come with time such as hugs, kisses and so on. She did not say she loves me but it was pretty obvious she is just afraid to let down her guard right now.
I think she is afraid to tell me these things because I will revert back to the old husband she grew to dislike. I pointed out several instances to show how much I have grown and feel better about myself and life in general.
Who knows, I will let you all know how thigs continue to move along.
Okay this is very important...
Did she say you were the problem and blamed either all or the majority of the problems on you? Or did she assume the blame and apologize for her part equally?
If she blamed mostly you, chances are (I'm not saying definitely) that she's seeing another guy.
What type of "separation" is she talking about? If she wants a physical one, dividing accounts, etc. then she's usually wanting to conduct her business in secret.
Honestly we are both understanding of our mistakes and we both admit to them.
Right now she is saying she wants to seperate so that she can have time to regroup without the pressure of worrying about what we might do or say everynight. She is very concerned with the kids and stated she does not want them to keep hearing and seeing our lack of love and caring around the house.
She thinks it would be best for them to live in a house without the stresses.
Also she said that she wants to grow a friendship again and she told me that with that we will regain the physical, emotional feelings over time. She wants to learn to like me as a person.
Make since at all?
Sorry S2D if I have upset you. I was just relaying what has happened to me and many others on this site.
I hope she is not having an affair and it is possible that she is not. Just keep your eyes open okay
Peace
9
9lives,
to be honest an affair would not matter to me, I truly mean that. Of course it would hurt but that would not be where my issue lies. I just want to be loved and I know I cannot make another human being love me. I am going to do my best at just treating her as I would like to be treated and see how that goes.
I am at the point where nothing I say will matter and I might as well enjoy what I have for now.
Seems like a "DUH" moment to others I am sure but it just hits me sometimes. Monday's tend to be my really down days. Not sure why but WOW. They always do.
I even smoked a cigerette yesterday I was so stressed. MY first smoke in like 3 weeks.
to be honest an affair would not matter to me, I truly mean that
Of course it would matter to you! That is why you've been so stressed since the subject first came up. You were going to leave the board b/c we "had you spiraling".
So, you had a R talk with W. Did you choose to do that rather than search for evidence of an A? Anyway, it appears the conversation went the way
she wanted and as a result there is going to be a S. You sound relieved. Relieved that someday she might be friends with you again. As you said, you just want to be loved.
It's not a "duh" moment for any of us, Scared. It always hurts when we see a M fall apart. When a H faces the fact that his W is probably having an A. Although, you still choose not to do that, it's your business and you life.
We've heard the very same conversation, that came from your W, dozens and dozens of times from LBH's here on the board. In fact, I can predict that the two of you will have another argument or something won't go to suit her, the S plan will quickly change to a D. This converstion you had last night was the prep talk.
I hope you will stay here on the board, b/c I believe you will have a change of heart and want our support.
((hugs))
I have absolutely no idea how to find out if she is hav ing an affair. I have no where to start and no where to figure out where to start either.
Last night she asked me why I thought she was having an affair, I told I her I just feel it. She went on to say she has never lied to me and why would she start now.
I know why she wont start now, I am not an idiot but I tend to believe her for what she said.
So how do I turn my naive butt into a man that knows how to find evidence>
Look Scared, i dont want to beat this to death. Puppy and Gucci and Sandi and many of the vets almost had to beat me over the head last year when they kept telling me to be aware of an A.
I had head firmly up butt and questioned her a few times, aske around. Her friends even asked her and she denied everything.
Even swore on just about anything and then got really angry when I asked again at different times.
I would have bet my LIFE on it that there was no affair. Seriously.
When I found the evidence due to her being careless, i felt like I was hit by a sledge hammer. honestly.
I felt soooooo stupid, embarassed etc.
I dont know where to start but I know that questioning them is not the answer.
Sandi is right I think when she says that you do want to know the truth.
Hope and Pray we are wrong but be aware. Its the only way you can make the right choices.
9
9Lives,
where do I even start to search and find things out? follow her during the day?
1) Texting (unusual number of text/picture messages to OP) and cell phone calls.
NOT AT ALL
2) Getting caught in lies
NOT REALLY
3) Spouse getting mad/upset when you ask whereabouts or question any odd behavior.
FREQUENTLY and ANSWER IS ALWAYS GROCERIES
3) Change of routine (in my case H started being gone EVERY Saturday morning)...for "work" or a "bike ride"....
STARTED WORKING OUT AGAIN EVERY MORNING 2 WEEKS AGO
4) Change in grooming habits.
5) Stopped wearing wedding ring and made up an excuse that it was getting tight.
NOT SINCE LAST THURSDAY, I ASKED LAST NIGHT AND IT IS BECAUSE IT WAS GETIING TIGHT
6) If your spouse is dumb enough to call you by accident from a secret cell phone like my H did....SURE SIGN!
NOT YET
FYI,
My wife has not worn her "actual" wedding ring since last year and continues to use the excuse that the band broke. As a result she started wearing a ring that her mother had given her. Well Since I got home last Tuesday after being gone for 2 weeks, she has not worn a ring since Thursday. I mentioned it last night and she told me it was getting tight.
WOW, great rational especially since she has been going to the gym more.
"She locks her laptop with password
new email accounts that she thinks I do not know about
twitter account that she will nto let me be her friend on
facebook that she deletes posts occasinaly
member of countless "fanfiction story" forums
comments all the time on a friend she used to hang out with before me
foudn out she is moving to texas and that friend will be an hour away from where she is moving
she gets real defensive when I tell her I think she still likes him"
UMMM isn't this your proof?
At the very least, she may be in an emotional affair. I heard pretty much the EXACT words your W told you. I swore she was telling the truth, etc. I found out otherwise.
It really is up to you if you wnat to pursue this line of thinking, but more than likely, you're not going to get a shot at your M until her fantasy bubble bursts.
Scared, sorry for the thread jack.
All, I’m tired and this might not come out the way I intend it to. I apologize if this offends.
I have been following this discussion, and one similar came up in my own thread. I did some digging and did not find W was involved with OP. Later after I stopped looking I found out she had begun to pursue an R with OP. Though I have not confirmed this I understand nothing has begun and the OP blocked contact from W through FB. (remarkable an OP with morales) So like Scared I know little.
My questions:
What does this really change?
If we accept our S are involved and this is not cause for us to be done then what action oriented things are suggested?
Does this change the DB principals?
Sadly there are quite a few threads here where S are confirmed to be in an A. I don’t perceive significant differences to what we are all doing beyond the boundary attributed to Truegritter quoted below.
So what am I missing?
W, I've told you before that I still love you and still think that we can have a great life together as both a couple and a family. I've not changed my mind on that. But I understand you are not happy, that you do not feel happy or complete inside.
You need to do what will make you happy. By my side, we live as partners, we share everything and we would do anything to help one another. But that's only if we continue as a team.
I won't stand in your way. But I also will not help you leave this marriage or this family. And I will never accept another person being a part of our life together.
I hope you find the happiness you are looking for. Go do what you need to do. You know where I will be.
Stunned, it is perfectly fine, no stress!
Just hating my life.
I have decided to just let her go. She is just so unhappy with me and that is not ok for me to make her unhappy just so I can feel better about myself.
I see that my feelings are not important when I am pressuring another to try and keep herself and me happy at the same time, not to mention tossing in the 2 children.
Here is the email I just sent her. She deserves mroe than me at thsi point.
"
XXXXX,
I beleive you when you say you are not cheating, I know you are not that kind of person. I do have trust in you, my mental feelings are nto because of you, they are because of me.
Thus I should never push my emotional distress on you when I am down. Last night was a cluster of emotion and honesty.
I see that I will not make you happy and I cannot beg you to stay and put the pressures of keeping the family happy as a unit. You have been doing that YOUR ENTIRE life for everyone. I KNOW THAT.
I will not ask or attempt to force myself upon you any longer. I WILL NOT. I do want to be your best friend but those are HUGE shoes to fill and I know I will probably not get there. However I want to be your friend and right now I am not.
I know I can be that man, but the pressures or you needing to grow without me is too much for me to handle right now. I want you to remain my wife but if you being this unhappy is the result then you deserve more. I love you and I will do my best to not bring up our situation anymore.
You are the most amazing mother, wife and friend anyone could ever ask for, the problem is I never knew what I had until I lost it.
I Love you, XXXX
"
I wish you had posted the letter here before sending it to your W.
Okay, let's get something straight. And it's important for all the other new posters reading this to understand. STOP ACTING LIKE IT'S ALL YOUR FAULT. IT IS NOT.
When a WAS leaves, they are filled with all types of emotions - pain, guilt, shame, depression, etc. The FIRST thing they will do is to transfer much of those feelings into anger to justify their actions and make their spouse the number one bad guy.
Think really hard. I bet your W had many faults also. But now suddenly she's a saint when she wants to leave? BS! I'm not saying that the LBS is not without fault. However, it's always a two way street.
Sending messages like the one you did justifies their action to leave and makes you the scapegoat. They leave satisfied and happy because suddenly it's all because of the LBS.
They act like bullies. BULLIES CUT OTHERS DOWN SO THEY CAN STAND ABOVE THEM. That's why it's important for the LBS to regain their sense of self-worth. You are worth the R. We all are. In fact, the LBS's here are BETTER than the WAS because they are actually taking the time to understand their spouse rather than just leaving.
That's why GALing is so important. It's to help you to get back your self worth that the WAS has destroyed. It is IMPORTANT to get your SELF back and remind yourself that YOU are worth it. Last time I checked, your W isn't perfect. The last person who was, could walk on water. Can your W? No I didn't think so.
Second. It's important to get your confidence back because if in the event there is an OP, you are showing strength and that you are the better choice. Confidence is key. Also, when there is an OP involved, it is NOT your fault for your spouse to cheat. It is their decision. It shows them being weak for not being able to uphold their M vows.
Stop devaluing yourself and putting your W on a pedestal. She's human and has made her fair share of mistakes. I bet there were many times that she disappointed you, yet you were able to forgive them and let them pass. For whatever reason, your W chooses not to do that.
"and that is not ok for me to make her unhappy just so I can feel better about myself."
YOU don't make her feel unhappy. She CHOOSES to not feel happy. Your W makes you feel like crap, yet YOU CHOOSE to be happy. All of that is a choice you make as an individual. No one can make you feel anything that you don't want to. Remember that.
Did you ever see the movie "Cool Runnings" about the Jamaican bobsled team? Watch this and repeat it to yourself until you know it to be true.
http://youtu.be/_Gqwi7Y96sk
Watch this clip from Rocky and remember it! Imagine them talking about your M.
http://youtu.be/_Z5OookwOoY
inspiring clip to say the least. Not sure which character I am at this point.
Mr Bond, Thank you for the post. It is clear, consise, and summerizes much.
Now it is up to us to assimilate and act.
S2D,
You are Rocky and your W is the son. But the message is the same. Take ownership of your own life and problems and stop blaming others. Likewise, stop assuming blame for someone else's life choices. It's their life. It's their choice. NOT YOURS.
Stop beating yourself up and start asserting that you are a man of worth.
S2D,
You are Rocky and your W is the son. But the message is the same. Take ownership of your own life and problems and stop blaming others. Likewise, stop assuming blame for someone else's life choices. It's their life. It's their choice. NOT YOURS.
Stop beating yourself up and start asserting that you are a man of worth.
And WHATEVER you do, DON'T become the side of raw meat, hanging in the meatlocker.
Starsky
Dude,
I have been the slab of meat for years and usually I love that opportunity but lately, I am more like some old beef jerky that is drying out.
Well I have been keeping my mouth shut and things are going ok!
Well, the weekend went well. Except last night in bed I had somewhat of a meltdown. Nothing is changing and I guess that is nothing new either. Another week for me to work on myself.
n0thing new on my front. same ole shizzle different dizzle.
So, are you going to continue to endure that pitiful excuse of a life--or are you going to start living?
Welcome back Sandi2. Good to see that you are helping again. you were missed.
9
Thanks sweetie, I appreciate that. I'm tempted to say a whole lot about that situation but I'm going to try hard to take the higher ground, b/c he's only been around a short time and I have almost four years invested into a board that I give credit for saving my M.
I've been keeping up with your thread. I had not left.....just quietly reading.
((hugs))
Thanks sweetie, I appreciate that. I'm tempted to say a whole lot about that situation but I'm going to try hard to take the higher ground, b/c he's only been around a short time and I have almost four years invested into a board that I give credit for saving my M.
I've been keeping up with your thread. I had not left.....just quietly reading.
((hugs))
I'm a big boy. Sandi..you can say all you want in any thread that I have started. There is no higher ground to take. You got pissy and tried to take your ball and go home because someone had the audacity to challenge you. I thought that's what this place was about. Now talking about taking the higher ground is self-righteous BS and you know it. I'm not afraid to call it like I see it
Harrier, I have read some of your posts and you seem to give good advice and I am glad that you also appear to be on tract to saving your marriage.
If at all possible , lets all let this go. We all have enough pain in our lives and come here for some much needed relief.
As Tina Turner sang, " I dont care whos wrong or right i dont really want to fight no more"
And Tina should have been on this boar years ago, She would have left Ike sooner and had better tools to cope.
Cheers everyone
9
And Sandi, thanks for the hugs. Could always use those.
Last night she gave me the seperation agreement paperwork. I stayed calm, albeit a bit on edge. I ended up going out and drinking, came home and she was sleeping on the couch. I went to the bed.. THE END so far.
She handed me seperation agreement papers last night. She will be leaving in June moving to Texas. She did not tell me she was seeking legal advice and so it was a bombshell. I knew she was going to leave in June, but the way the seperation agreement reads, she is going to file for divorce. It just reads that way!
That being said, I am not signing anything until I get my own lawyer and get this [censored] the way I want it to read.
I am not going to fight over the kids, they want to stay with her and being their Mother, I understand that. Really and I do not hate her because of that. This has been going on for years and we always been off and on nice and mean to each other. In the long run it will be best for all 4 of us, it really will.
I just need time to adjust and move on. The relationship has been rough for both of us and we both need to be happy. Right now we are both happy when the other is not around. Simple and plain. So we are going to do what we need to do for the kids and they DO NOT NEED a dysfunctional love less home, it is a fact.
I love her but it is time for her to fix her life.
This sounds so mature and I want to keep begging but I know the above to be the truth. IN my head anyway, my heart is still bleeding.
9--
1. I hate, to hijack S2D thread like this. Sorry Scared.
2. I am/was more than willing to let bygones be, but Sandi had to make several snide comments in her post. Why don't you tell to also to let it go?
3. Sand2- Put up or shut up. If you aren't willing to say anything to me directly, stopped with the passive aggressive comments to other people.
Again, Sorry Scared.
Wow! I don't even know what the heck you are talking about anymore! You've already given your opinion about my post to nine.......or have you forgotten? I am not discussing you on any threads! And, I didn't see where you were willing to let bygones be! I saw you calling me out. How childish is that? How old are you anyway?
I'm a big boy. Sandi..you can say all you want in any thread that I have started. There is no higher ground to take. You got pissy and tried to take your ball and go home because someone had the audacity to challenge you. I thought that's what this place was about. Now talking about taking the higher ground is self-righteous BS and you know it. I'm not afraid to call it like I see it
You are not
behaving like a "big boy", but more like a school yard bully. Yes, I'll admit that I let what you said hurt my feelings. You've hounded and verbally bashed me every since you arrived. I tried to help and you would have no part of it. I've not read any posts you've made to another member with the attitude you have toward me. Perhaps it is b/c I was a WAW and it's your anger that's lashing out...IDK. That much I could understand, but why continue to try and tear down anything I say. You accuse me of b.s., self-righteousness, and in past times....hypocrisy. You don't know me! All you know is that once upon a time I was a WAW. I doubt you know my stitch, but that's okay. I just want you to put your energy toward helping other members instead of duking it out with me. I would like to be able to do the same. I expected you to give me a hard time if I started posting again, but I didn't think you would just continue to harp.
You are wrong, Harrier,
this is NOT what the board is about.
2. I am/was more than willing to let bygones be, but Sandi had to make several snide comments in her post. Why don't you tell to also to let it go?
3. Sand2- Put up or shut up. If you aren't willing to say anything to me directly, stopped with the passive aggressive comments to other people.
I have not said anything about you on any other thread. So, you must be still referring to the same post you griped about last time. If it makes you that mad every time you read it, stop going back and reading it again...but don't talk like I'm running you down in other posts somewhere.
You really want to let bygones be? Really? Then be a man and stop fussing with me about whatever it is that has a burr under your saddle. This doesn't help people with anything. Let the owner of this thread have it back. Now, move on.
WOW Sandi, just WOW. They say WAW like to re-write history, I didn't think that included strangers on a message board.
First, Scared again I apologize.
1. Sandi - I asked you to respond to me in a thread I created, yet you chose to respond here then have the nerve to say "let the owner of this thread have it back"
2. Normally, I'd brush what you said off. But I'm not going to stand by while you make baseless accusations of me for all to see. The good thing about a forum like this is that people can see for themselves. I just spent 1/2 reading every single one of my posts. My interactions with you were limited and mostly positive. There was NO hounding, NO verbal abuse, Nothing of the sort. Some of the stuff you accuse me of just didn't happen.
It's funny, I''ve been way harsher to other people Heck I told Mr. Bond to F off. I was pretty hard on SBH with the 2x4s.
3. I don't tear down what you say, in fact I've gone out of my way to AGREE with your take on things on several occasions including in SL's thread. We basically had the same point of view...that is what's maddening.
4. I didn't give you a hard time when you started posting after your break. I did make a comment on what you said in this thread. This --- "I appreciate that. I'm tempted to say a whole lot about that situation but I'm going to try hard to take the higher ground." You implied you had more to say about me and implied there was a higher ground to take b/c I took the lower ground.
5. I'm really sorry if what I said hurt your feelings. But I still stand by it. As everyone says there are 3 sides to every story here. The one we get here, the spouse's and the truth. Because of that I take EVERYTHING anyone says with a skeptical eye. It's just the way I am. Call me a negative, half is glass empty kinda guy or just a jerk, I do not care. Remember I'm a lawyer before that a reporter. People give one side of events to me all the time, then I find out the truth later on. That is why I take everything even advice with a gain of salt. It's my problem, sorry I directed it at you in that thread. it was really directed at everyone even JTB who I hold in highest esteem. It goes for my advice to, take with a gain of salt or leave it all together.
6. Lastly, I really thought you had a thicker skin. Heck I've been called 10X worse on here than what I said to you. You are right, you have been here 4 years. I would hope you wouldn't let one comment from one guy, interfere with the help you give here. One of the common complaints is that people who succeed at DBing often just stop posting. I decided long ago, not to do that. I know about 1/100 of what the vets know and my style can be a bit more aggressive. But I really want people to be challenged in their views.
To everyone else. I'm sorry about this. (especially S2D and StillLearning whose threads got hijacked by this nonsense) I never thought my one comment would lead to so much strife. This is why we need a private message function. This is end of discussion for me.
Closing this thread.
Harrier, you are out of line with your treatment of sandi2 from what I can see. Sandi2 has been a longtime respected member of this community and has helped countless people save their marriages with her compassion, wisdom and knowledge of DB techniques.