This thing with the OM...
Has your W really ended things with him, or has she just put him on the back burner?
Thank you so much for checking in on me Cat. I appreciate it more than I can tell you with words
Actually, I'm not going to argue with you very much. I think that your points are very good ones. And I have put lots of thought into each of them. I guess that I don't journal about everything that I think about or that my W and I talk about so some of it gets lost here.
Has my W actually ended things with OM at this point? I would say this... there is not an active PA going on. That I know without a doubt. I also say that any EA is over as well.
I think that what is going on at this point is very similar to how R's end. There is a process. My W believed that she was in a valid R with OM. She felt that our M was done and that she was moving on. She entered into a R with OM.
I believe that W coming around to opening herself up to me and ending things with OM is related to 2 things:
1) The R with OM was not what she had hoped. She has said to me that she is not in love with him, that he gets on her nerves, and that he smothers her. I think #2 below is actually the result of W realizing that she really doesn't like OM all that much ... at least as someone who she'd want to date or be with.
2) Once W realized #1, she was able to begin to think about the good things that I offered and the good things in our M... the fact that she has loved me for 8 years.
My point is that while I don't think that the death certificate for the R with OM has been signed and delivered, I also don't think that W would really want to continue R with OM EVEN IF things didn't work bw us. I really just don't think that that's where she is with this.
So back to the process... W feels badly that OM is being hurt by her ending things with him. She told me in Buffalo that she 'kind of regrets getting to know OM' ... for bringing him into this. I guess he went through a serious bout of depression when a former gf of his left him a couple of years ago. Nearly suicidal... W is concerned about this. I honestly believe that she is trying to let him down gradually rather than take him out to the fields and put him down with a single shot. LOL. My W is way too kind sometimes!
I also think that there was/is an emotional bond bw W and OM that W needs time to break free from.
Lastly, W is not the type of person who can be attached to two men... I see her attachment to me at this point is pretty strong again. So I seriously doubt that it is with OM.
So I think that it is a process... but I do really think that W is done with OM.
She is worried about your comfort level with them working together, however, she doesn't appear too concerned with doing anything about it. She has continued to talk to him about your marital status and situation.
These are HUGE red flags for me.
They are also things that I would want to see changed permanently before I chose to reconcile.
That is something for YOU. I know people are going to scream CONTROLLING behavior, and yes, to a degree, it is controlling...
It is also a statement of your self esteem and how you will and won't let yourself be treated.
Absolutely. And W knows that I feel this way. When W and I first spoke about the possibility of reconciling back on Feb 10th, she volunteered that if we decide to reconcile and work on M that there will be no R with OM whatsoever... including no friendship. That has not changed.
But again, I refer to the process that I spoke about above. W knows how I feel... but I've also told her that I am willing to be patient in moving forward. We have not formally decided to reconcile at this point. When we do, I expect her to hold true to her words about no friendship with OM. I expect that this will occur over the next couple of weeks.
W has continued to talk to OM about our marital status only in terms of making him understand why she is ending things with him. She told me in Buffalo that he has tried to give his opinion on her coming back to me, but that she told him that his opinion is no longer one that she can trust bc of his feelings for her.
W not doing anything about my concerns? The music thing is difficult. My W has no control over who plays in the band that she sings for with this entertainment company. She knows that I'm not comfortable with OM being on gigs with her, even if it is only 5 or 6 times per year. But she has limited control over it. Could I ask her or require her to stop singing with this company? Probably, but that is not something I will do. W's singing career is limited by where we live. There are not a whole lot of opportunities to have the kind of situation that she does now. And her singing career is so important to her that I would never do anything to limit that even more.
I really do believe that this situation is something that will work itself out over time. W will not be comfortable with it herself and from what she tells me, OM won't either.
Finally, as crazy as this might sound, I trust my W 100%. I don't believe that this A was anything that she meant to have happen, and it was sooo out of character for her. Also, I should have seen the signs that I was opening the door to it months and months before my W left, let alone before she had the A. I will be much more aware of any such signs in the future... And I feel that I have the tools now to prevent this from ever getting anywhere close to this again. Tools that I didn't have before.
You do need to own your part in the A. She had an A, because you were not a good H. You were not meeting her needs. You created a situation that allowed her to become vulnerable to that sort of thing. While you didn't force her to get into the bed, you did hold the door wide open for her.
You need to recognize this and figure out a way to make sure that YOU don't do that again.
Something that I've thought A LOT about. I do own my part. My comment in my last post about having a difficult time accepting my role... I don't know... I guess I just meant that I didn't play a role in her choice to allow it to become physical. Did I create the situation? Absolutely. Open the door to it? Absolutely. I was not a good H... I wasn't meeting my W's emotional needs... I created a very lonely M for my W for a very long period of time...
I own all of that. And I have put tons of work into gaining the tools necessary not to allow it to happen again.
And you need to forgive both her and yourself for it. If you don't, I can guarantee that the reconciliation, won't last very long...
Agreed. Absolutely right. I do forgive her even though I struggle with the fact that it happened. Do I forgive myself? I'm not sure yet... something that I am working through.
Your W may be drawing closer to you for now...
There is NO guarantee that she will remain that way though. You seem to want to wait to deal with the issues that are bothering you...
Do you think if you bury them now, and wait to bring them up down the road, that the reception you will receive will be any better?
Honestly, it could be worse. Because you will be feeling more secure and then the apple cart gets tipped over and you feel like crap because you did it this time...
Denver, deal with your issues. Deal with your feelings. Decide, now that the possibility really exists, if you CAN do this.
It is time to know exactly what you want the new R to look like. It is time to look beyond the goal of reconciliation and see what the actual relationship in piecing is going to look like.
What are the boundaries? What are real problems that you had in your M that could use some working out while you are doing all of this?
Is it fair, to either of you, to wait until things seem better to bring these things up?
"Oh, BTW, in the past, you didn't talk to me enough about what you were feeling and I need someone who is willing to talk things through instead of shutting down?"
"Oh, BTW, we didn't have sex as often as I would like to. That is something that I need to be different."
Denver, it is important to know and be able to express what you need in a R, as well as HEAR and give, what your W needs in a R. So that both of you, can make your determination for yourselves, if this is really a workable situation.
If you don't, down the road, these problems will arise and you may very well find yourself back in H*ll.
W and I have had A LOT of talk on how we got to this point and what will have to change in our new M. I don't journal about those things so much here. But we've talked a lot about our sex life, me being emotionally present for she and SS, some of my bad habits, W's responses to me when I screw up, and how all of that created a downward spiral for us. We each have communicated ways in which we can make this much better.
We've also talked about a boundary that we would both like... that being that neither of us will have friends of the opposite sex that are not friends to the M. This was more of an issue for me than it was for W in the past, so she is completely on board.
So these things have been brought up and discussed... and, as you point out, rightfully so.
Each of us knows that we need to do MC. I have found a MC who is solution based pro-M and who basis his program on MWD's material. This is who we plan to see. We have also discussed going to Retrouvaile.
Nothing is set in stone yet. And I am aware of the potential pitfalls. But it is patience, understanding, and 'true giving' that has got me to this point. I don't want to backslide on these things bc I think that they are not only important for continued progress towards reconciliation, but also crucial to my W and I have a successful new M.
Thanks Cat. I don't think that I argued with you much, if at all!!
Every single one of your points were dead on correct. And again, I appreciate you checking in on me.
BITS
Denver
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Sorry!"