>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok so as you know I was feeling kind of down today and really wanted to talk to W just to hear her voice but I really had no reason to call her, so what is a 2step to do? Alas, my daughter pulls through.
So D approaches me tonight after I get back from a family Bday party and says "daddy. I would like to talk to you about something very important. All my friends in school have a FB and so do my cousins. Now I know you and W don't like for me to have one because you are scared of who might contact me but I would like for you to make it private, give me a password, and I will only go on when you are home and you can log me in and out and check all my friends and post" After such a logical approach what is a father to do? I told her "D. I appreciate you being logical in your request. Can I sleep on it tonight and give you an answer in the morning?" "OK"
2step, WTH does this have to do with your W? Stick with me....
A few weeks back I was talking to my DB coach and one of my W's problems was the fact she felt excluded from decisions involving D and she also felt that I did not value her opinion or cared; so she suggested on occasion I should contact W and ask her opinion on matters. When W gave it I should say "I really appreciate your feedback, thank you"
So I sent W the following text " W I have something I would like your opinion on, if you have time tonight and you can call I would appreciate it. It will be short"
So I received a text from her that she would call in a short while. She did, we spoke briefly
W "what are you up to"
M "just watching a movie with D"
W "oh your busy would you like me to call you back?"
M "actually yeah if you don't mind."
W "Oh Ok or you can call me later"
M "It will be late this movie is long you might be asleep. I can just ask you now really quick or just call you tomorrow"
W "I will be up late, you can call if you like I am not sleeping anyways or now if you like"
M "I'll call later wait D wants to talk to you"
At this point D and W talked for a few minutes. D has an ear infection and was telling her about it. W got on the phone gave me some detail instructions on what to do. I listened and told her thank you I would call her later, kept it short on purpose.
I finished the movie with D put her to sleep and send W the following text
M "your still up?"
W "yep"
I called asked her opinion on FB, she thought about it for a bit explained why she was against it and explained why I should go ahead and let her. I thank her and told her goodnight, then she began to talk and talk and talk.
We started talking about religion then we started talking about politics then about the debt of Jersey then about work anyways you get the point.
We talked for 2hrs about everything except the R/M or getting back together. Twice I started to cut the convo short and twice she continued to talk, at one point she said "You don't have to go unless you are tired, I am enjoying talking to you"
If I got nothing else from this convo that was worth the post. We also talked about some fun things we had done together NFL game, NBA game, and an NHL game we went to. We even talked about Fantasy Football.
But all good things must come to an end so around 2AM I said
M "well W its been nice talking to you but its late and you have to work tomorrow so i will let you get some rest"
W "she said ok goodnight"
After I got the phone I sent her the song from the movie Tangled "I've got a dream" because I had mentioned it in the convo how she would enjoy the movie and that was my fav song.
That's it no major milestones here just a nice pleasant talk, but it kind of reminded me about something she mentioned in the DB session when the coach asked what about H did you like, her response "we could talk about anything and everything and he listened to me."
That's awesome, 2Step. I've been trying to catch up on your threads and situation, and I think you're walking the walk, and slowly reaping the toils of your labor. I wish my situation could have hope/promise like yours.
After I got the phone I sent her the song from the movie Tangled "I've got a dream" because I had mentioned it in the convo how she would enjoy the movie and that was my fav song.
2x4 Alert.
2step I know well your intentions by doing this but it is pressure and it has to stop.
Every time you do this you communicate your needyness and that you aren't listening to her.
You are not giving her a chance to miss you because you are always reminding her you're still there even when she doesn't want you to be there.
This is the toughest part.
Do better.
Thank you sir can I get another! Another classic rookie mistake!
hi
i am happy for your conversation...i think that's great
you must have slept so much better after
but i do agree with grit, about the song
but you never know, she might have been touched
have a great day
True,
Wait I thought about this a minute. Have you seen the movie? It has nothing to do with me having a dream about us getting back to together or anything like that. It is about the main character having a dream about seeing floating lanterns. The actual song is very funny and it is not romantic at all. YouTube it.
Alamo,
Thanks for joining us, there is plenty of room inside the 2step house of smoke and mirrors. On the surface there appears to be lots to be happy about, but maybe that is just my pessimistic side talking. The truth is these could all be just friendly conversations amounting to a whole lot of nothing as far as the M is concerned but only God knows. If it wasn't for my BITS and all the others who have encouraged me to stay the course I might have been either in the loony house by now for sure with a straight jacket or in total hatred mode for my W. I do feel however that this book has not yet ended.
grr,
Actually I did sleep better. The thing is after these convo's I tend to go through a high that last for a few hours, sometimes days but then I crash again. I tend to post during my highs because that is when I am most clear in thought. About the song, you guys YouTube it and tell me what you think. It is not a romance song.....
Here I will save you the trouble grr and Gritt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_hRsOiTYm8
2step, first - nice!
It's a great feeling when they want to continue to talk and we actually don't. It's nice to be "brought back into the room" when you're ready for the conversation to end.
And, I have to tell you, I don't think the song is a bad thing at all. Is it pursuing? Maybe. BUT I think it shows you caring more and NOT begging for the relationship to come back. She wants to see if you still CAN love her the way she needs to be loved.
It worked for me
NOW is where the hard work - truly hard work - begins. You HAVE to take everything she said at face value. Don't look into ANYTHING positive or negative. Take it as a great conversation and leave it at that.
The ball is still in her court. Let HER contact you. The BEST thing you can do is stay detached yet involved. I'm thinking its a great first step but it can be erased if you push it.
It will go against every molecule in your body to not call her. But RESIST!!! It will pay off.
keep it up and stay strong!!
Bolt,
I agree with you 100% on this. The real hard work is beginning now and this is the time that I am going to need to most support I think. I am not real sure I am on the right road yet but I do agree that the conversations are encouraging.
NOW is where the hard work - truly hard work - begins. You HAVE to take everything she said at face value. Don't look into ANYTHING positive or negative. Take it as a great conversation and leave it at that.
This is going to be hard for me because I am not known for patience so this is surely to test me. Your sitch has inspired me not to give up and continue so please check in often and evaluate my progess and give me good critique, you can start with the update I am going to post after this
Wait I thought about this a minute. Have you seen the movie?
It doesn't matter the content...
Want to know why?
Ask yourself, and be honest, what did you hope to communicate or accomplish by sending it to her?
?
Understand now?
Listen I did the same things. You want to hang on to the connection. You want her to remember what you use to share.
I get it.
Just think about what you are doing.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So I get a text from W a little while ago and this is the following exchange.
W "was D happy when u told her?"
M "When I told her what?"
W "about FB...lol what did us getting back together come to mind...Man do I know u or what....:)"
M "lol didn't even think about it once
Oh yeah she was actually kind of shocked., and stay out of my head, its not safe for u there lol"
W "LOL so I was right on....LOL"
M "Not even close......."
W "Ok so maybe I stand corrected...LOL"
M "what makes u think I would take you back at this point? :)"
W "Touche"
M "lol"
Ok so before I get my head ripped off I will say this. My thought was that of jokin but then again why should she feel that she has all the control of this thing all the time? It was a joke but we will see how she took that. I don't want her thinking that she can just decide my fate at the drop of a hat either because I have worth also. Anyways go ahead let me have it.............
M "what makes u think I would take you back at this point? :)"
Actually I like this even though you didn't mean it entirely.
I hope that you do get to where you feel more like that because that will be the day that you and your W have a shot at piecing back together a successful M.
It is funny I just wrote this on another thread.
This is still all you, you a trying to pull her back in and she is doing none of the work.
Don't get me wrong as LBS we are the ones that have to have the faith and put the energy into the M now because our S isn't right?
I am just saying to put the energy into where is better spent
Not convincing
Not coercing
Not controling
Do for YOU. When you do your W will see it and maybe,
Maybe she will see in you what she wants in her life.
Then you will not have to pull her back.
She will be pulling you back to her.
True,
When I saw you responded and my phone was still loading I was smiling cause I was thinking to myself "great. Gritted is going to rip my a$$ again" so the fact that you approved is a little reassuring what I don't want to do is shut the door the minute she starts to peak inside.
I don't want to do is shut the door the minute she starts to peak inside.
You won't. Believe me.
Don't worry about that part. Have courage and faith that when she is ready to make her way back
You will be there. And you will be a better man that has learned from his mistakes.
In her mind there is no mystery to you. She has said she "knows you" and "what you are up to"
So creating a little doubt in her mind is a good thing.
And the walls came crumbling down...
2Step, seriously, YOU. ARE. AWESOME. Do you feel awesome, because you rock!!!
I think that Truegritter is right on the mark. You need to create some mystery and she cannot feel that if you tell her that she knows you inside out. Now, she might know you inside out, but that isn't the point. The point is that you created doubt in her mind... you are changing and THAT IS EXCITING.
I have very curly hair. My H loves curly hair, but every once in awhile I would go have it straightened. It was unexpected and it would excite my H because he said he felt like he was sleeping with another woman. That's the excitement you are creating.
Holy cow, 2Step, these conversations are going great. Nothing negative at all. That's big. You are being patient and kind. You are thinking things through. So... I know you need to wait a little while so it doesn't all seem fake, but have you thought about the next piece of advice that you are going to ask your W about D?
Did I mention... YOU. ARE. AWESOME.
I'm praying for you! Oh and cheering so loud for you!
LIS
One thing I forgot to mention the other day when W was on the phone with DB coach Jody asked what would it take for you to see some of the changes H is making? W thought for a moment and said
"Time"
I thought I should mention that
TAKE A BOW 2Step!! Nicely done. I need to keep the comment that you made to W in mind for myself. Very nice.
I think that Grit is dead on with the advice he's giving you and me. I know that it is tough. We just have to keep working man.
BITS
Denver
This also had to be very tough on your W. How did she feel about the move to Jersey? Was there a part of her that was somewhat glad to get away from MIL and SIL?
BITS
Denver
At first yes. She was a little relieved that she no longer had to take care of mother she had been doing this since she was 13 after a bad car accident followed by some major sickness left her very poor of health.
After awhile though she felt some guilt for being so far from home. I admit I did not want to go to OK all that much for vacations so we usually went to the Islands or Vegas Disney things like that. I should of done more to go see her family but I almost felt like a hypocrite because I knew they did not like me all that much. They were always very pleasant to me but I knew the truth. Sometimes W would go to OK to see them for a week or so and always came back feeling like crap. It would take W about a week to level out from the visits.
I did offer to bring mother and sister to stay with us in Jersey many times but they always had some excuse not to come. This last summer my W was bummed out that her sister had never been here so I said "you know what. Just buy the damn ticket and she will have no choice but to come" We did and she came. I took her to NYC showed her around took her to nice restaurants Broadway shows treated her like royalty. W was really happy. In August I had talked to her mom secretly and offered to bring her up here for 6 months to stay with us she promised to get back to me. Two months later W left.
Anyways this is your thread man not mine.
Putting this on your thread 2Step. Not bc I care that we were discussing it on mine, but bc I think that it is important to your situation and others may want to weigh in.
Anyway, my though on how you describe you and your W's R with her family is this... I think that we just found the reason that she WILL be wanting to move back to Jersey to be with you WHEN SHE IS READY.
JMO...
BITS
Denver
Denver I never thought of it that way. That is a good point. I think MWD says that sometimes your cheerleading squad can actually help you more than hurt you at times. Let’s hope she is right.
Lost,
I have not thought about the next thing I will ask advice on. I am kind of choosing my reasons for calling very carefully, at this point I might hand back and wait a few days. I get lonely when W doesn't call especially since we are having such great convo's, if I look back at this week alone I think we have spoken or texted every day.
I need to sit back and let her reach out to me next before I come up with some other reason to ask for her advice or opinion on a matter. I believe I am in a very dangerous position right now where W is testing the waters (maybe) or just being typical nice self. I feel like everything is being evaluated right now from my tone of voice all the way down to my goodbyes.
I believe I am in a very dangerous position right now where W is testing the waters (maybe) or just being typical nice self. I feel like everything is being evaluated right now from my tone of voice all the way down to my goodbyes.
Exactly how I feel 2Step.
heck yeah, 2step!
I don't think you were out of line at all. It's obvious that you and her have had a fun relationship in the past. She needs to know that is still there, right?
You played just enough, in my opinion. Didn't push things and actually made fun of the sitch. She played nicely back by saying touche. It actually makes her feel a little comfortable with the sitch. That way when you guys do talk about it, she won't feel as guarded or dreading the talk.
Next step? You're right. Let her do it. Don't avoid her but don't make yourself super available. It's tough because you are seeing forward progress. Just don't forget everything that got you here. I don't think you'll lose her by not reaching out to her. Believe me, she'll reach out again.
Thanks Bolt!
I keep hearing the comment was right on so I will take it and move on. It's allI can do.
I may use that comment tonight if I have this 'face to face' that she has suggested.
BITS
Denver
Hey BITS! I misse dby brothers yesterday!!
2 wow - what an awesome exchange you've had. I feel like I'd be behind the 8 ball if I were to add anything. I mean True, Bolt Denver, LIS - spot on as always.
You seems like you are on your way my friend. WELL DONE!!!
gypsy,
I am in my normal weekend mode of feeling down right now. I went to church with my D and nephew again today and I thought I was doing well but this feeling of emptiness just grabbed a hold of me and I really missed her. It my family is not complete and that was painfully obvious to me at church.
I've no contact since that exchange and since the convo's we have been having have all been nice and friendly I was going to stay dark for a few days and if she does not reach out then maybe I would reach out to her.
See my W can play the image of the strong woman who is king of the world right now but I know behind the charade there is pain and a fear to appear weak. She might not call or reach out to me if she feels like I am shunning her or that I am moving on without her but then again I don't want her to think I am at her beckon call.
I am a little torn right now on what to do. Today I am going to a SB party and hopefully have a good time.
Just give it a day or two 2Step. The similarities between our W's doesn't need to be talked about anymore, but your concerns have been mine ever since my FIL told me that W was telling M that she didn't think that I loved her bc I wasn't doing anything to woo her back.
I think that she will probably reach out to you within a couple of days. And if she doesn't, I don't think that there would be anything wrong with you calling her to see how she's doing. IMO, I don't think that you need to go dark on your W. But you do need to walk that fine line between staying in the friend zone and not letting her think that you are at her beckon call. Let instinct guide you but not fear.
BITS
Denver
Your comment about your W just hit a chord with me Denver.
When I was in OK I told my W jokingly I was looking for a place to live. We kind of laughed it off. Then the next day she said how is your search going, I said I stopped looking she said "oh"
M "Why would I move back here?"
W "I don't know. To sweep your W off her feet again"
of course that was in December.
Also in the DB session when Jody asked what can H do to show changes W said "I don't know. I guess he did show up at my mom’s door step"
Those are two comments that lead me to believe she would like some kind of effort on my part but then that is where the complications come in. What is too much/not enough?
Denver your W would like to see effort, you have at least two examples of this, last nights talk and FIL's comment, where do you draw the line?
gypsy,
I am in my normal weekend mode of feeling down right now. I went to church with my D and nephew again today and I thought I was doing well but this feeling of emptiness just grabbed a hold of me and I really missed her. It my family is not complete and that was painfully obvious to me at church.
I've no contact since that exchange and since the convo's we have been having have all been nice and friendly I was going to stay dark for a few days and if she does not reach out then maybe I would reach out to her.
See my W can play the image of the strong woman who is king of the world right now but I know behind the charade there is pain and a fear to appear weak. She might not call or reach out to me if she feels like I am shunning her or that I am moving on without her but then again I don't want her to think I am at her beckon call.
I am a little torn right now on what to do. Today I am going to a SB party and hopefully have a good time.
2, I know the w/e's are tough for you. I'm dealing with my H 1 year anniv today of leaving. I've been keepin gbusy all day, cleaning and am going invited a cousin of mine over to watch the SB.
I think going dark for a few days is fine. You know the deal that the WAS has try to show they are put together - we know the truth. I think you made baby steps this past week and just keep that in mind. Patience - Patience.
You are in my thoughts - enjoy the party and see you this week. You better not bail!
2step
i think you should go dark for a few days as well
i know it is hard
but think about what you want the outcome of contacting her will be and then think about how you will feel is she doesn't respond in kind
you know?
hope you are having a fun superbowl sunday
i wish i liked baseba - i mean football
I wish that I could tell you 2Step. I've been struggling with this for a couple of weeks now. I really think that you need to apply what you have learned here and in DR/DB, but also use your instincts. Obviously I don't know your W, so take this for what it's worth. But from what I've read, I think that you need to give her a little more time before you do anything but what you currently are.
Remember the bottom line, number one, principle of divorce busting... DO WHAT WORKS!!
BITS
Denver
My instict tells me that if I have another nice convo with W I am going to bring up visiting for a weekend to see what she says. I will mention it in a very careful way I won't just come out and say it.
I went to the SB party a bunch of my friends were there over 30 people and while I had a nice time I felt empty inside. I am getting off for the night because I am feeling a little down and out right now.
Another note.....one of the guys at the party lost 45K on the game. What a dumb a$$! LOL.
hope you feel better tomorrow 2step
i understand that feeling of being alone in a crowd
i am not sure about the weekend thing yet
i have to think about that one
hmmmmmm
ouch... $45k?! Yes, idiot.
I think that mentioning a possible visit is a good idea IF it seems to be the right time. Let your instinct guide you... but not fear.
BITS
Denver
Maybe next weekend, we can all meet on the roof of the Empire State Building - LOL.
Awwww... 2Step, you really are doing so awesome. But please be careful about asking to visit. Go slooooooowly. I don't know why, but I have a really good feeling about your situation, a really good feeling and I want to make sure that you make the best choices possible!
Take care of yourself. I'm praying for you!!!
LIS
geez 2 - if your friend had 45K to just blow on a football game, I wished I had known sooner. I take charity! I'm not ashamed - he could've put that towards the zengypsy foundation!
I know the feeling of just going thru the motions sometimes when you are trying to work on GAL. I still feel that way. I mean I certainly enjoy being with my friends, but I miss having my H to come to. All I have is my dog and he gives me this look sometimes like enough already - so tell someone who gives a
sh!t!!!
Lost,
Thank you. I am glad someone has a good feeling about my sitch because some days I am feeling very confident and other days I think the longer we are apart the more she will see herself just moving on. I will go slowly and will only bring it up if the opportunity presents itself if it does not I will hold back. Seeing all the couples there last night kind of hit a chord with me and I was feeling a little down.
Gypsy,
No sh!t! He was stressing the whole game and when Pitt lost someone threw him a wad of money and he started counting. I asked a buddy of mine “what’s this guy doing” “he is counting to pay his bookie. He just lost 45K on the game” I couldn’t believe it. You know how many DB sessions I can buy with that? Hell I could fly and meet MWD 4 times with that.
2Step,
I knew yesterday was going to be difficult day for a lot of us. But the thing is, we made it through and we all need to be proud of that. I, of course, was in a drug-induced coma because of an out of control migraine, so it was a bit easier for me
These "feelings" that you are getting about things getting better, we need to pay attention to them. We are reminded up and down to be careful and so we are cautious and therefore unwittingly throw off these standoffish vibes. This can be a very bad thing. We do it for good reasons because we are trying to protect ourselves from further hurt. But, in doing so, we do not allow the good things to happen either. There are times to follow the rules, and there are times to follow our instincts. The rules are for when our instincts are not working well because we are depressed. The instincts are for when we are thinking more clearly and not so overwhelmed by our depression.
As far as her being away for too long... there's no such thing. Besides, October is no where near "too long." Play your game, trust your instincts and keep moving forward. I'm praying for you.
LIS
2step - this is the patience part that stinks. You HAVE to stay strong here. You will be there for her WHEN she needs you. This is definitely where the rubber hits the road.
I look at this way. When she gets in contact with you, just listen and keep the comments rather short. If you get the feeling that she's asking a ton, come here and talk to us!
After that, you will know a lot more on whether to start convos with her. I think staying dark right now is the right thing. It's not forever, man. BUT it is important to stay the course.
listen to bolt...it worked for him
this is so hard, but good things come to those who wait, and all that
and i agree with you...it's such a rollercoaster...one day we feel fairly confident and the next so, so down
but relationships are complicated, involved beasts
if they were easy, we would not be here in the first place
stay strong
Bolt, Lost,
Thank you both very much. I will stay the course I just came in to the office so time to get busy and occupy my mind wish my heart would catch up.
Patience is not a virtue I possess but if my M is saved it will be a virtue I would have learned. I guess based on her history with me it is only a matter of time before she reaches out to me.
you are DEAD ON!
See? You know her and know what she will do. Well, guess what? If you continue to do what you are doing (the good things) she WILL do that.
I thought the same thing with my W. I KNEW that if she went out to find herself, she would be disappointed with what was out there. I knew her better than anyone BUT I had to let her find it out on her own. That took a TON of patience.
She found out exactly what I thought and came running back.
The worst thing about patience is that it takes more time than we ever imagine to get. I guess that's the point, right?
you can do it!
How long did your sitch last bolt?
WN - you can check out my thread to see the whole shebang but in a nutshell, it's been going on for about 5 years (only about 18 months to MY knowledge). The hard HARD work has only been about 2 months.
Don't pursue her based on the fact you didn't bomb with that joke. This is what I see happen with a lot of LBH's. One very tiny, tiny bit of encouragement (like having a conversation without her biting your head off) and you think it is a green light. It is a step in progress, but you need to let her continue initiating contact--and certainly giving you some clues.
Don't pursue her based on the fact you didn't bomb with that joke. This is what I see happen with a lot of LBH's. One very tiny, tiny bit of encouragement (like having a conversation without her biting your head off) and you think it is a green light. It is a step in progress, but you need to let her continue initiating contact--and certainly giving you some clues.
That's exactly what I did before we separated. On the one hand it really [censored] to know now what I was doing wrong but all of the baby steps that I took as green lights give me hope that there is plenty there to be rekindled. I just have to start doing things right.
[quote=MichelleLT]It's rough to be around couples. Even after the S, D, and me dating again, I still find it hard to be around married couples. It's such a reminder of what I no longer have.
So, your option is to avoid hanging out with married couples or people who are too couple-y, or to just deal with it. Don't expect it to not hurt though lol.
Does your family know the basics of what is going on? Even if you don't want to talk about it (I didn't for about the first six months) at least letting them know you are S might be a source of support for you. Although definitely be careful how much you tell them because they may frown upon you R with W.
Hope you have bounced back from your funk. All part of this fun roller coaster ride!
Being around couples is the pitts. If I stop hanging around M couples I will be solo because all my friends are M lol. My family knows what is going on, they know everything except how I am doing and how I am taking this D.
hey 2 - just checking in to see how u were doing toaday...
Kind of hard to explain gypsy. You ever have those days when you feel like you can't breathe? Like the shock hits you all over again like it’s the first day? I felt like that all day. This complete feeling of loneliness the kind that sweeps you and almost paralyses you. I felt so much despair and loneliness today I can't really put it into words. I feel a little better right now. How long will it last? Should I still be feeling like this after 3 M?
[quote=2stepboogie]Kind of hard to explain gypsy. You ever have those days when you feel like you can't breathe? Like the shock hits you all over again like it’s the first day? I felt like that all day. This complete feeling of loneliness the kind that sweeps you and almost paralyses you. I felt so much despair and loneliness today I can't really put it into words. I feel a little better right now. How long will it last? Should I still be feeling like this after 3 M?
I'm right with you today 2 - go check out my whiney thread if you dare.
Hope you feel better tommorrow.
At this point I am just going to journal or my head is going to explode. After trying to catch up on all the BITS tonight I realize it is not a good day to be a club member. I am feeling completely deflated I have no idea why. I feel a sick sensation in the pit of my stomach that is painful all the time. I don’t know what in the world is happening or why. It feels like I did back in Dec and Jan. This is some crazy stuff I am feeling.
I was thinking about this earlier and I have never had someone so close to me that I love so much “die” (this is like a death in a way, a death of dream). My dad is 90 still kicking my mom is 70 all my siblings are still alive so I have never felt this way before, these are all new emotions.
Texted W a little bit ago “did you see the pics D put on FB of you?”
W “yeah I saw….:)”
That was it. I spoke to a close friend of mine today and he was really interested in how I was doing. He heard from one of the very few people that know I am in pain and decided to find out if the “Tin Man” was really hurting. After a few minutes I opened up a little bit. He said “man. I had no idea. I thought you were doing great. I have to tell you though that I am very impressed with what I hear. You are always so matter of fact and to the point but I hear real change in your voice. I hear compassion and a very good understanding of how W might of felt. That is good. You know I am always here for you”
I felt as if I was making such good progress last week and then darkness falls. The thing is I know what did it. My comment on that text did it. She got that and said “oh yeah. Ok. We will see” Stubbornness and pride are driving this thing, of that I am sure. She is sweet and very kind but she is also stubborn and she is letting me know right now that the comments rubbed her the wrong way. All this and she probably received the D papers today or even Saturday. I have zero doubt she will turn them in at this point. This is a living walking breathing nightmare.
Man 2Step, I'm sorry to hear that you had a rough day too. I guess it was a bad day for the BITS. Journal away my friend. I read, and am interested, in everything that you and the other BITS put into words. It's not often that you go through such a hard time in life and it is good to know that we all have each other to understand what is happening to us.
Hang in there. Tomorrow is a new day for all of us.
BITS
Denver
2step,
I want you to know that some of your advice on here has been some of the best medicine for my own sitch. So, tonight, take some of your own medicine. Have faith in yourself. You are good at this. Take some time tonight or tomorrow and go read some of the stuff you have posted on my sitch. You were awesome! Listen to yourself from time to time!!!
Come on buddy, pick yourself up, dust yourself off and get back on that horse. You can do it!!!! If you can't find the strength, come here and we will give it to you. That is what the BITS do. Go read my post tonight and tell me that having the BITS around doesn't help. You guys saved me from myself tonight and we don't even know each others real names!!!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
but all of the baby steps that I took as green lights give me hope that there is plenty there to be rekindled.
It's okay to take it as hope. But it is a baby-step when the two of you can have more than one conversation that is relaxed and maybe even a laugh here and there. What I'm saying is not to go over-board just b/c she responded nicely in this one conversation. Women don't usually go from red light to green.......they need a caution light in between.
2, my daily check-in. Today any better for you? Hoping so.
2Step,
First, (((hugs))). It is a living, walking, breathing nightmare, isn’t it???
Listen, I don’t want to lecture you because I have the same feelings you do. One minute I’m ok, the next minute, I’m looking for the tallest building (not quite that bad). I don’t bring it up here much because I know that I will be told that I am not detached enough. I already know that. Just not sure how to pull it off sometimes. There is one thing that does help me tremendously, though, and that is my Bible study. No one can calm me quicker than God.
I am so sorry for what you are going through, but there are no answers. I wish that there were clear answers for us, but that doesn’t exist. You know why? There are no clear answers in our WAS’s heads either. They are just as confused and in some cases (including yours), torn up as we are.
Now, stubbornness and pride are definitely driving things. This is so sad to me because there is no place for those emotions in a marriage, yet they drive many marriages. The thing is, 2Step, you don’t know what is going to happen. I think part of you convinces yourself that she is going to turn in the paperwork because you are preparing yourself. If you are right, then you risk getting hurt less, right? Wrong. You do not. You are going to get hurt either way. I don’t know why we do this. And, by the way, I am famous for doing this so you have company. But we do need to “act as if” because it is important for the relationship. Maybe if you act as if, she turns paperwork in anyway. But if we don’t act as if, we are not giving ourselves the best chance at reconciliation. Your interactions have been great, 2Step. Even you admit that they have been good. So, one thing might have caught her off. If she hands in paperwork as a result of that, what makes you think that there isn’t something that you can do to make her undo this whole divorce non-sense? I mean if she is that impressionable, anything can turn the tide either way. Why because of one comment is everything doomed??
Sweetie, I pray so much for your pain to go away. We all know what that is and I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy. But there are better days ahead. We may not believe that right now, but it is still the truth.
Take care of yourself.
What you are feeling is normal. It will still hit you for quite a while. As time passes though, the ups and downs will be less crazy. You will spend less time bottoming out down and have longer bouts or normalcy in between.
There have been some studies that say it takes up to 2 years to recover from the break-up of a long-term relationship.
It's a process. And it takes time.
Ugh Michelle, this is not very encouraging to me. Two years?! I hate this! I hope it is the same for the WAW!
Lis, Sandi, FOBD, Denver, Gypsy
Thank you all for the kind words. My computer at work is not working right so I have been without you guys for awhile today and it was driving me crazy. Today I must admit I am a little better because I don’t feel out of breath but I feel numb. I have to take my D to the Doctor for an ear infection so I will make this short. I will get on tonight and check up on everyone. In sitch there is nothing new to report……..
oh 2step, i really feel for you
please hang in there
i know exactly what you mean
i was up all night with this sick feeling and all my nerve endings felt raw
i guess we will have our good and our bad, right?
but you are doing so great and have seen progress
just hold your head high and stop texting
at this point you are not going to get the response you are looking for
i should know after 2 days of pleading
it did nothing but push him away
and now i feel horrible
please come here often and talk to us
we are here for you and have got you
xo
2Step?! How you doin man? LIS and grr are doing a group hug over on grr's thread! Come on over!
BITS
Denver
Well gang I feel much better today but it took all day to get here. Even as my M in the dumpster, how lucky am I to have found such a special group of people. I will count this as one of the small victories of my despair.
After thinking about it all day I decided I would reach out to W. I had some good news for her so I texted her.
M “I have some good news for you, if you can call tonight I will share”
W “K”
About 10 minutes later
W “It will be late I am on my way back from OKC now, bringing my mom back from the Dr. Is that ok?”
M “yeah that’s fine. I’ll be studying”
W “OK”
W “or I can call u now”
M “I am little tied up right now. If u get back too late u can call tomorrow”
W “ugh…….ok”
The good news is we have been in tax debt for a little over 5yrs and this was a source of constant irritation for her. It happened as a result of my business and she has mentioned it several times. Today I called the bank and got a loan to pay it off, I figured it would be better to owe the bank than to owe the IRS. She had suggested it in the past but I wanted out of credit card debt before I took on a new loan.
A few minutes ago she called I told her the news. She thanked me for doing it and we spoke for a little over 2 minutes. She said “it sounds like you are busy so I will let you go” I told her I was fine. Then she said “it’s snowing pretty badly and I can’t see the road very well. Let me go so I get home safe”
That was it. Today I am at peace with myself. I, along with all of you, came here to save my M. As I type this, that seems like an impossibility to me but who knows. I know that I like the person I am becoming and I will NEVER make the same mistakes again. I would love for my W to be a part of the journey but what we want and what we get are two different things.
2step, that is the hardest part. You want to make these changes, but you also want them to see the changes. It is sad really that at times we can't just make the changes and be happy that we made them. I have a confession to make. Each day when I am finished working out, I go into the locker room, remove my shirt and wash up a bit in the sink to get rid of all the excess sweat and gym germs before I head home to take a real shower (they don't have showers at my gym). While I am standing there, I notice all the cool changes in my body and how much more tone I look. And, stupidly, I always think to myself, "Boy, she is going to sh*t when she sees what I look like now." This is sad actually. Why? Because I am completely missing the point of going to the gym. It is to make me feel better, look better and make friends in the gym. Not to please her, but to please me. But the thoughts are always there. All I think about is the first time I get to take my shirt off in front of my W. Why do I do that? Right now, there is not much of a chance I will ever get to do that. But, we have these thoughts anyway. We want them back and you can't just turn off that emotion. If we could, we would all be divorced already and not spending hours here each night.
I guess that is why we are still "newcomers" and not experts. We still have to learn that we are not here just to win them back. We are here to prepare ourselves for the worst while hoping for the best. Wow, I am really all over the board here tonight, but I hope you get my point. It is OK to struggle with this. You are only human and you are hurting. Just continue to focus on the good changes and don't get to down when an interaction with her doesn't go to plan. Remember my football analogy. OK, so tonight she got a first down on your defense. Don't sweat it. There is still plenty of football left to be played...
BITS never walk alone!!!
FOBD
2step - I look at that as another baby step and a very positive one at that. Good convo even if it was short and "business" like. The wall comes down from convos like that.
Stay positive and feel good about yourself. I think you're doing great!!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok so W calls back as I am posting so I answer.
W “hey sorry about the way I got off the phone. I hope I didn’t seem rude I just couldn’t see”
M “oh that’s ok I heard the wipers screeching I figured it was better”
W “how are you doing?”
M “I am good. How is your mom doing?”
We talked back and forth for a few minutes she told me about the TV she just bought her mom and about a SB party she went to and about the weather. Small talk nothing important really. I told her about possibly buying a house in the future and the fact that I would be getting promoted at work and that I was thinking about buying a TV to put in the room.
Her response…
W “isn’t that wonderful. You get promoted at work, thinking about buying a house and getting a plasma for your room. Yeah. Wonderful. Life is great for you”
M “Well all in due time. I wouldn’t say wonderful. I mean it’s not great but I am moving along”
W “I am going to need help putting my moms tv on the stand I bought for her. It’s too heavy. I should of just taken yours. I paid for it!.”
M “Anger is a great motivator. As angry as you were you could of probably picked it up and loaded in the truck. Just think of me when you are at your moms and the anger will give you the strength to pick up the TV and place it on the stand lol”
W “I should of tipped your over lol”
We talked for about 30 minutes and then said our goodnights. I came back to post walk around the house for a little bit and decided I was not done for the night. This probably goes against DB rules but my W love language is words of affirmation so I decided I would call her back. She answered the phone and this is how it went.
M “ I just wanted to call you and let you know that I am sorry for the way I have hurt you. You did your part on the M and I failed you. You were a great W and a great friend to me and I stopped being your friend and for that, I am sorry. I would of walked through the gates of hell for you. Never believe you are not a great woman because you are. I hope that I always see you the way I see you today. That is all I wanted to say. I hope you have a good night and a great week”
W “Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I hear you say that but I am a little skeptical. I hope you understand. Why do you feel you understand me so much better now than before, how did you get to that point”
M “Oh man. What time do you have to go to work again? Lol. I tell you W it has been a long and painful journey. It has taken me some time and a lot of grief. I understand why you left. I understand the feeling you felt and know why you felt them. I wouldn’t change anything that has happened up till now. It was necessary, at least for me. I had to go on this journey. When I started all I wanted was to win you back. I had to have you back right now because the pain was too great. What I realize now is that I will be ok with whatever you decide because I have changed the focus from winning you back to saving my sanity. In the process I have experienced growth but I had to suffer to get here. If you would not have left nothing would of changed because I was not listening to you. Once you took the action of leaving I had two choices 1. Continue with the status quo and just say I hate you for leaving. It was all you. 2. Take a hard look at what happened and take the time to learn about you. Choice two was the hard one but it was the one I chose. I am glad I did”
W “I am glad you have done this. I wish you would have done it sooner. Everything I did was wrong. You were every body’s best friend except mine. I told you from day one two things never take me for granted and just tell me things would be ok when I was feeling down. You did neither. We went to the MC and he told us to grade our M and you said A and I said C and you still didn’t get it. I was doing what you needed in the M so you could feel loved but you stopped doing it for me. I lost my best friend you stopped caring about me. All you did was criticize me and put me down and then you even stopped telling me you loved me. You would say it if I said it. Yeah you would go to the MC but that is where your effort ended. Because you were such a man that you did not have to do anything I was the problem”
The whole time I acknowledged and agreed with what she was saying, not just to DB but because it was true, at this point she began to cry.
W “ I am so glad you have made changes. I wish you would have made them sooner. It is so sad that you made those changes now“
M “I know. Me too. I was putting diesel in a gas engine thinking the tank was full. I don’t know how this will end but I am better person for it. I guess I failed to see what a real M was made of and it is a lot of work. This is what those people who are M 30 yrs figured out. I think about if I could have seen this sooner what a great M we could have had with your personality and mine if I would have been just 10% better we would be having this convo in person but you don’t deserve 10% you deserve it all. I would of loved to have this convo in person maybe one day we can. I went it about it all wrong I started from the front backward. I realize I should have gone through my emotions first and worked on myself but I wanted the pain to stop and was blinded”
W “Even when you were here to visit you did not get it. I was telling you and you weren’t getting it. You wanted to hear yourself talk about getting back together and you were not listening to me. I was telling you”
M “I know you are right. I guess I was desperate. Now I see things a little clearer. I understand that whatever happens is going to happen and I can’t do anything about it but I am ok with the outcome because I believe that I have come out of this a better person.”
At this point I told her it was late and started to say goodnight. She talked a few more minutes but then started to tear up and said “yeah its late good night and thank you H for calling back and saying those things”
I know this is a long post but it was a good convo. I hope you guys don’t fall asleep reading it. A lot was said and she did some complaining about me which is ok and I listened and also did a lot of talking but mostly it was reinforcing. I did not defend myself or argue my point of view. At what point she said “I don’t know why you acted that way or said those things” I just responded by saying “I don’t know. My journey was to get to know you. You will begin your journey when you are ready”
I needed that convo this week. I really wanted to get this off my chest. Going dark on my W will serve two purposes one is reinforce the fact that I don’t care and not give her a chance to vent.
Thoughts………………………………….
2step, that is great man. I mean seriously. Really great convo. She said a TON there and I think you did a pretty good thing. I'm betting she went to sleep feeling pretty good about you. She may even be having second thoughts - not to get you too pumped up though:)
Thanks for sharing the entire conversation. Now, don't fall back! Stay the course. You said some deep things there and I think she heard them. She also got a lot of stuff off her chest in a safe environment - I'm telling you man, that will seriously pay off. That's exactly where my W was.
You should definitely be proud!
“Even when you were here to visit you did not get it. I was telling you and you weren’t getting it. You wanted to hear yourself talk about getting back together and you were not listening to me. I was telling you”
This is what you should listen to.
I understand where all you guys are. I really do because I was there.
This is really hard to hear but telling them you have changed and saying how many things in the M you own up to just reinforces why they left.
Do they feel guilt? yup you can see it up there in your convo.
Actions, not words.
Space, not constant contact by you.
I see your W as conflicted right now and that is a good thing.
Let her work it out.
The anger? Man my W told me I was living a fantasy life compared to her.
Very angry.
So is your W.
i think gritter is very wise in his advice (thank you, you just helped me too)
2step you are doing so well
keep it up
and that she is conflicted is a very good thing
she is on the fence and let your actions bring her down on your side
2, Alot of what you said to your W is what I said to my H in that infamous letter. I doubt I will get as good a return as you, but I needed to say those things to him just like you said to your W.
Grit always has great advice. As I have stated, he is a straight shooter and I really like that. No false hope with him. He keeps us on the reality wagaon! I think you have been doing a great job - keep it going. It'll be nice to have at least 1 friend who will make it.
Wow, took me a while to get caught up on all that's gone on in a few days!
I agree with TrueGritter. I think it's great you got the chance to say all that but I think you need to be prepared for the fall out. She said how many times "why couldn't you have done it sooner?" She's going to be angry. You finally get it and you're happy and moving on but she's hurting and grieving the marriage and now you turn into a great guy after she finally got up enough nerve to leave? How dare you! Now, you're making her reconsider everything and you know how WAS' hate that! If she calls again (only if! Don't keep pursuing her!), angry, says that statement again... apologize, a lot. Tell her you're an idiot that it took you so long to figure it out. Tell her that it's the biggest regret of your life not being the H she deserved. Tell her that you hope someday she can forgive you. Let her be angry.
But don't pursue her! Let her make the next move.
Wow. Found you, and did I miss a ton!
Some amazing baby steps there! Some amazing conversations.
Glad you are finally at the anger stage! That's great that she's doing the "too little too late" and "why couldn't you do this before?"!!!!!
It's just a phase. If you play this right, she will move through it and you can continue to build your friendship. Be patient. You are doing amazing work, keep moving forward!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok so W calls back as I am posting so I answer.
W “hey sorry about the way I got off the phone. I hope I didn’t seem rude I just couldn’t see”
M “oh that’s ok I heard the wipers screeching I figured it was better”
W “how are you doing?”
M “I am good. How is your mom doing?”
We talked back and forth for a few minutes she told me about the TV she just bought her mom and about a SB party she went to and about the weather. Small talk nothing important really. I told her about possibly buying a house in the future and the fact that I would be getting promoted at work and that I was thinking about buying a TV to put in the room.
Her response…
W “isn’t that wonderful. You get promoted at work, thinking about buying a house and getting a plasma for your room. Yeah. Wonderful. Life is great for you”
M “Well all in due time. I wouldn’t say wonderful. I mean it’s not great but I am moving along”
W “I am going to need help putting my moms tv on the stand I bought for her. It’s too heavy. I should of just taken yours. I paid for it!.”
M “Anger is a great motivator. As angry as you were you could of probably picked it up and loaded in the truck. Just think of me when you are at your moms and the anger will give you the strength to pick up the TV and place it on the stand lol”
W “I should of tipped your over lol”
We talked for about 30 minutes and then said our goodnights. I came back to post walk around the house for a little bit and decided I was not done for the night. This probably goes against DB rules but my W love language is words of affirmation so I decided I would call her back. She answered the phone and this is how it went.
M “ I just wanted to call you and let you know that I am sorry for the way I have hurt you. You did your part on the M and I failed you. You were a great W and a great friend to me and I stopped being your friend and for that, I am sorry. I would of walked through the gates of hell for you. Never believe you are not a great woman because you are. I hope that I always see you the way I see you today. That is all I wanted to say. I hope you have a good night and a great week”
W “Thank you. I appreciate that very much. I hear you say that but I am a little skeptical. I hope you understand. Why do you feel you understand me so much better now than before, how did you get to that point”
M “Oh man. What time do you have to go to work again? Lol. I tell you W it has been a long and painful journey. It has taken me some time and a lot of grief. I understand why you left. I understand the feeling you felt and know why you felt them. I wouldn’t change anything that has happened up till now. It was necessary, at least for me. I had to go on this journey. When I started all I wanted was to win you back. I had to have you back right now because the pain was too great. What I realize now is that I will be ok with whatever you decide because I have changed the focus from winning you back to saving my sanity. In the process I have experienced growth but I had to suffer to get here. If you would not have left nothing would of changed because I was not listening to you. Once you took the action of leaving I had two choices 1. Continue with the status quo and just say I hate you for leaving. It was all you. 2. Take a hard look at what happened and take the time to learn about you. Choice two was the hard one but it was the one I chose. I am glad I did”
W “I am glad you have done this. I wish you would have done it sooner. Everything I did was wrong. You were every body’s best friend except mine. I told you from day one two things never take me for granted and just tell me things would be ok when I was feeling down. You did neither. We went to the MC and he told us to grade our M and you said A and I said C and you still didn’t get it. I was doing what you needed in the M so you could feel loved but you stopped doing it for me. I lost my best friend you stopped caring about me. All you did was criticize me and put me down and then you even stopped telling me you loved me. You would say it if I said it. Yeah you would go to the MC but that is where your effort ended. Because you were such a man that you did not have to do anything I was the problem”
The whole time I acknowledged and agreed with what she was saying, not just to DB but because it was true, at this point she began to cry.
W “ I am so glad you have made changes. I wish you would have made them sooner. It is so sad that you made those changes now“
M “I know. Me too. I was putting diesel in a gas engine thinking the tank was full. I don’t know how this will end but I am better person for it. I guess I failed to see what a real M was made of and it is a lot of work. This is what those people who are M 30 yrs figured out. I think about if I could have seen this sooner what a great M we could have had with your personality and mine if I would have been just 10% better we would be having this convo in person but you don’t deserve 10% you deserve it all. I would of loved to have this convo in person maybe one day we can. I went it about it all wrong I started from the front backward. I realize I should have gone through my emotions first and worked on myself but I wanted the pain to stop and was blinded”
W “Even when you were here to visit you did not get it. I was telling you and you weren’t getting it. You wanted to hear yourself talk about getting back together and you were not listening to me. I was telling you”
M “I know you are right. I guess I was desperate. Now I see things a little clearer. I understand that whatever happens is going to happen and I can’t do anything about it but I am ok with the outcome because I believe that I have come out of this a better person.”
At this point I told her it was late and started to say goodnight. She talked a few more minutes but then started to tear up and said “yeah its late good night and thank you H for calling back and saying those things”
I know this is a long post but it was a good convo. I hope you guys don’t fall asleep reading it. A lot was said and she did some complaining about me which is ok and I listened and also did a lot of talking but mostly it was reinforcing. I did not defend myself or argue my point of view. At what point she said “I don’t know why you acted that way or said those things” I just responded by saying “I don’t know. My journey was to get to know you. You will begin your journey when you are ready”
I needed that convo this week. I really wanted to get this off my chest. Going dark on my W will serve two purposes one is reinforce the fact that I don’t care and not give her a chance to vent.
Thoughts………………………………….
Man 2Step, just saw this update. That was a GREAT conversation! You did such a wonderful job DBing. And you used the perfect words. You and I are so similar in how we ended up here it just amazes me.
Can I get you to fly out here to Denver, put a mask of me on, and go to dinner with my W tomorrow night? I have a feeling that that conversation is going to be VERY similar. I just hope that I can answer her with the same heart, conviction, and truth that you did with your W.
I'm going to read through this post again before I meet with my W tomorrow.
BITS
Denver
Now THAT is how you validate someone.
I have to say... this sitch is probably the only reason I haven't given up hope. I look back and realize how many opportunities my wife gave me to validate but I was way too defensive. I did own the problems but I always followed with an explanation which came of as not validating. I put myself in a bigger hole but I see you diving out and I know that I can too.
2step,
Maybe you should be the "Captain of the BITS?" That was amazing. I hate to say it, but if I even get to the point where I can say those things to my W, I think I am going to dictate your speech word for word. I don't think it could be said any better. What scares me is that my W doesn't even seem to be anywhere near where your W is right now. But, watching you work gives me hope. I think you should be promoted to "Major" for that effort.
Very nice work and very, very motivating to an individual like myself that has a very long road ahead.
Go to bed proud tonight!!
BITS never walk alone!
FOBD
Mr Bond, Fellow BITS, Michelle, Gritter and Bolt
I have been in the military since I was 17 have seen my fair share of deployments and the things that would keep men awake at night. I however do not suffer from nightmares or guilt I have learned to hide my emotions from a young age. At 7 I left my native country of Cuba while my mother stayed behind. I never thought I would see her again. At the age of 22 I learned that the son I loved was not mine I can go on and on. I have always been quick accuse and slow to show compassion. This has harden me but tonight I logged on and read your words and I had tears in my eyes, not because of my sitch, that chapter is yet to be finished but because people like you exist.
I have never met such a great group of human beings in my life. I have hope for humanity because of you.
I have a new update to post that I will put up shortly and tonight I will visit all my BITS and catch up.
Denver I would fly to meet you anytime, but not to talk to your W for you, but to meet both of you and so that you can meet mine.
Anytime my friend!!
BITS
Denver
>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ok so as I explained yesterday I have been somewhat absent because my laptop was not working so all my updates have been coming from home after my D goes to bed but usually I write from work with my work laptop. So I drove an hour to take it to the IT department to see why it was not working properly.
In reality the laptop was fine but for some reason it could not post on the DB site or check my personal email (which I shouldn’t be doing from laptop anyway) as I approached the base I get this text
W “so much snow…..NO work!”
M “LOL u get snow days…..yaaaaaay go make snow angels!!!!”
W “It’s too cold! Gonna stay warm and toasty”
M “good idea. Curl up with a good book and enjoy the peace and quiet”
Showed up at the IT center and told them about the email problem, 30 min into them getting my computer diagnosed I get a phone call.
W “hey how are you?”
M “I am ok just at the IT shop pc problems”
W “Are you busy I can let you go”
M “Nah. I don’t know what they are doing and they said it could take 6 hours so I can sit here and waste 6 hours of my life or do something productive and talk to you for a few minutes.”
W “I wanted to call and thank you for the call last night. It meant a lot. I am a little annoyed that it took you so long to come around. You have apologized before but last night seemed sincere”
M “I was glad to make it, I know I have called before and I am sure I was sorry before but maybe I was sorry for the wrong reasons. Last night I was in complete peace with letting you know that I was ok with whatever you decide to do.”
W “You know…..it’s funny….well not funny but sad that it came so late. I wish the best for you H I really do. I don’t hate you I am hurt but I don’t hate you. I didn’t leave because I didn’t love you I left because nothing would of changed if I had stayed and because I needed to leave for myself and for D. I know that does not make sense but it was not a healthy environment for her, you or me. I am not a selfish person.”
M “I completely agree with you W, I know you do not hate me and I know you don’t have a mean bone in your body, in a way I thank you for leaving because you saved me and perhaps even saved this M if that is the path we end up in. I wish I had a time machine so that I can go back and talk to myself because I think that is the only way I would of listened.”
W “I was a good mother to D but you didn’t think so. All I wanted was for you to acknowledge me and the things I did. I blame your mother for a lot because for me it is too painful to believe it was you doing these things, I can’t bear the thought that the meanness was coming from you so your mother is the easy target. I know that is not fair. I know it was you. You feed your ego by destroying mine you feed off my weakness and you destroyed me, in turn I stroked your ego and if you would of done it right I would of feed your ego and made you feel special just by being nice to me. I always thought I was a strong person but you made me feel weak because I was walking on egg shells in my own home. This is part of the reason I wanted to go to church because I needed to find some peace because there was no peace in my own M. I’m so glad you are making changes I just wish you would of made them sooner.”
M “I wish I would have made them sooner also. I can never go back and correct the wrong all I can do is to make sure that I never make them again. I we do get a second chance I will spend my life making it up to you, if we don’t I will be better prepared next time around”
W “You know I can’t just decide to leave and then decide to go back like it never happened. This didn’t happen overnight and it can’t be fixed overnight.”
M “Rome was not built in a day. With all the hurt comes an equal amount of healing. I know this will take time but I believe you are worth it and I believe we are worth it but this is only how I feel. If you feel differently I understand”
At this point she began to recount all the things I had done wrong and all the times I had hurt her and made her feel worthless. A few times she stopped to ask “do you understand?” I said “totally, This must have been so difficult for you” then she would continue. This went on for about 2 hours and then my computer was ready so I went into the building. I was getting pretty worn out because I was taking quite a beating but the whole time she was kind and pleasant never mean or vicious. I asked her if I could call her back my PC was ready she agreed.
I called back on my way home and began the conversation
M “You know W I know I have failed you on multiple levels and I see how you could be so hurt. I wish I could change that but I can’t, all I can do is make sure that I do not do it again. The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step and this is mine.”
W “It’s funny…..well sad really…..that me leaving was the only way to get you to start walking towards me.”
At this point we made some more small talk and then she said
W “My sister got me a book”
M “What is it?”
W “what god thinks about divorce”
We both got a good laugh about this and she agreed to read me some verses. The book is basically a collection of bible verses with some personal stories. She ended up reading from each chapter and my 1.5 hr ride home was spent reading to me.
W “Chpt 1,2 ,3 ,4, oh chapter 10……..we will skip this chapter for now”
M “wait a minute…..how can you read all these chapters and leave me hanging on chpt 10? What is the title of chpt 10? What is it about?”
W “reconciliation”
We both got a good laugh
M “well I guess we can skip that one if you like”
W “well let’s see what is says”
She read the chapter and found two quotes from scripture one she liked very much and one I liked even more. I can’t remember were the hers came from but basically it was about when a man M a woman he leaves his mother and father and becomes one with his W. She read it three times.
M “I think there is an echo on my phone I heard that one 3 times LOL”
W “ LOL. Yeah and these are GODS words not mine LOL they are even in parenthesis say they are straight from Gods mouth. How can you argue with that? I was even being spiritual when I wanted your mother out and I didn’t know it.”
M “Can’t argue with the all mighty. When you’re wrong you’re wrong. “
Then she read the next one 1 Corinthians 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails.
M “ I like that one.”
W “I don’t know. I just don’t know.”
M “ I like the part about always hopes and always preservers but I especially like the fact that love never fails”
W “I just don’t know. I guess maybe you are right”
She kept reading and we talked for another 45 minutes. Then she said
W “I hope you know I didn’t leave because I didn’t love you. I left because I wasn’t being loved”
This was one of the hardest things I have heard. Then she asked me this
W “If you loved me so much then why did you say those things that hurt me? Why couldn’t you listen to me? How can you hurt someone so much if you love them as much as you claim to love me? I would never consider you an abusive person at all but emotional scars hurt so much more than actual hitting someone. Those are the scars that last.”
This one stump me but I bought myself some time and I told her I would explain without justifying my actions but I would need some time to think about it. I told her to give me time to think about the answer because it was such a good question I wanted to make sure it was well thought out. She agreed and agreed to call tonight.
How do I answer this without saying “because I was an a$$hole”
Phew long thread. I could make this so much longer but my fingers need rest and your eyes deserve a break.
dude, that made me tear up. I don't have an answer to your question. Please let me know when you come up with one.
For me, the honest answer is...'bc I was an a$$hole"
sad
I think that the answer we all have to this question is that we were ignorant. I know that it hurts for the women to hear that because they were trying to make us understand but pride got in the way of us hearing it. We loved our wives from our perspective but they were in effect telling us that we were loving them wrong and we couldn't hear that. It goes back to what Michele said... we respond to action and when they leave we "see" what they are saying.
I was ate up with tremendous guilt for so long because I reaalized how much growth I was getting out of all of her pain. I wish that it hadn't happened this way but I know that it had to for me to have gotten to the place I am at now.
2step, what happened??
did you talk?
i was was really touched by that post
it sounds like things have turned a corner for you
this is going to work out just the way you want it
i know it
i'm feeling really good about you right now and i'm sending those thoughts to you
xo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>UPDATE ALERT>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So she called as promised and we made small talk for awhile. Then I said
M”I guess you want your answer huh?”
W “yep. I didn’t forget”
M “I guess I was ignorant and I didn’t realize how much a look can hurt and a word can wound. I wish I had deep words for you but other than I was an a$$hole I’ve got nothing”
W “I know that now and I knew that in the beginning but after awhile not listening to me got to me. It put me in a bad place. I tried fighting the feeling I tried being strong and not letting it affected me I tried to remember that it was just you being you but I couldn’t keep doing it.”
M “I am surprised you lasted that long”
W “It’s not that you are this big horrible person H…….the reason it hurt so much is because I loved you so much there was a day when you were my whole world you were my everything. That is why it hurt so much. When someone you love so much says something negative about you all the time it wears you out. Then you start questioning yourself all the time. When you say it over and over I started to believe something was wrong me. You drove me crazy. Does that make sense?”
M “More than you realize that is the real issue here, it isn’t that you left, that part is stinks, but the real struggle for me came when I understood how I hurt you”
W “You honestly didn’t notice the nights I cried myself to sleep?”
M “No sweetheart, I honestly didn’t. I wish I would have I wish I would not have taken you for granted. I know it’s hard to believe how clueless I was, but I was. I know this kind of pain took a lot of time and it will prob take longer to heal but some people make it and some people don’t I still don’t know which category we will fall into, I guess only God and time really knows but in the meantime I enjoy talking to you very much.”
At this point I switched t he subject to a much lighter topic. We talked about weather and tv shows and I told her I was reading a new book and the first chapter was called ‘What happens to love after the wedding’ I told her I was curious in the end we agree to read the book together.
M “I guess we can make it like I am reading you bedtime stories”
W “Ok but not tonight it’s late and I know you have to work tomorrow”
I agreed and just before she hung up she left me with this
W “I enjoy talking to you H but I don’t want you think that we are going to get back together. I don’t know if I can ever give you what you want”
M “I know. Have a good night and I hope you enjoy your day tomorrow”
The entire conversation was about two hours. Ok now I will catch up with everyone because I have been so busy today with a sluggish pc and talking to W that I have neglected my BITS and fellow brethren on the board.
I know that she can't acknowledge the fact that she might go back to you but if you keep spending two hours on the phone each night you are going to be back together either way lol. Just a thousand miles between you but you are closer than you were when you went to bed together everynight.
Next,
Two months ago that comment would taken the wind out of my sails but tonight I shrugg it off. Whatever may be may be my friend. I am going to catch up with your sicth soon I am sorry I am falling behind.
By the way 'Come Back' by Pearl Jam is a song I have listened to since that night 100 times a day. Check out 'Just Breath' by them also
2step - you have the right attitude dude. Keep that going. It sounds like you just may be that guy she's been looking for.
If not, someone else will for sure. Keep it up!
She just doesn't want to admit it yet. Her pride is trying to protect her. But the pint is that she is "with" you every night practically. She is coming back every day.
I'm a pretty huge Pearl jam fan... I love just breath too: )
2step - you have the right attitude dude. Keep that going. It sounds like you just may be that guy she's been looking for.
If not, someone else will for sure. Keep it up!
Thanks Bolt,
Don't know how I will feel tomorrow but tonight I feel good. Actually except Monday I have great all week but I always feel great on Wednesday...
How is your sicth going?
dude that is awesome! One day at a time. It's funny how the positive tide can flow. Just don't let it get too high. Try to keep it just right.
Mine is going pretty well too. Check out the thread.
I think you are making HUGE strides.
Good job, 2step!
As a women who can relate to the way your wife feels, I think it's great that you keep telling her that you think she's great and was a good wife. Us girls need to hear that. I know it's hard to hear her bringing up the things you did to hurt her over and over again. I hope that you can stay patient with her.
I do believe in the long run that you continuing to take responsibility for your part goes a very long way to restoring your M.
DB'ing your butt off is paying off for you!
Rae
Boys,
Not to hijack but guy named Jason3974 could really use y'alls help.
Ms Rae,
thank for visiting, a womans perspective is always welcomed in the 2step haunted house
I am heading over to jason now thank you for pointing it out.
Also where is your thread?
Here are the links
My sitch And Here
2, for some reason I couldn't get on the boards last night and i just got caught up. I AM SOOOOO PROUD OF YOU!! You have said to your W all the words I want to say to my H and I sort-of did in my letter but you did it so much better. Can you call and talk to him for me??!!! I know he feels just like your W does and I feel just like you do.
You are on your way my friend. The lack of trust thing has to be earned and supported by actions. She's right that it doesn't happen over night and I know that you know that as well. You are kicking some DB'g A$$! You are slowly penatrating thru that huge stonewall she has put up.
Your doing a great job of keeping the expectations in check, validating etc. Man oh man - fab, fab, fab.
hi pal
your wife is being guarded right now
that's all
and though she may be considering reconciliation, she is protecting you just in case
that is what we, as women do
two hours on the phone?
sounds great to me
if she didn't want your company she would have been off much quicker
be patient and like zen says, you are doing a great job of keeping your expectations in check
have the best day
Oh yes, this is the good news thread I was looking for!!!!!!
2Step,
I agree with the others. I don't feel that there is any way that I could be more proud of you. But you know what I'm proudest of? When she mentioned about not knowing if she could reconcile and one of the others posted about that, you answer was very, very telling. You said 2 months ago, it would have broken you. Today, you're able to shrug it off. What HUGE growth!!!
So... from a girl who has dumped a few guys (sorry), she is not talking like someone who is about to get divorced. She is talking like someone moving towards reconciliation. You already know this. There are too many things in that conversation that she said that a woman would NEVER SAY if she really wanted out. Emotionally, we're pretty smart that way and know exactly what to do not to encourage a guy. They give classes on this in kindergarten.
Ummm... the book her sister gave her??? She read that to you? grr is right, as usual, she's fighting pride right now. Perhaps she will use God as the "excuse" to come back (the best excuse there is, IMHO). I just love, love, love that whole exchange. From Genesis to Corinthians... so much scripture on why coming back to 2Step is the right thing to do for Mrs. 2Step.
All of this is so encouraging. Tell me, any mention of the paperwork??? You were real concerned about that a couple of days ago. Has she breathed a word?
YOU ROCK 2STEP... WE ARE SO PROUD.
I am praying for you always.
LIS
Bolt,
Keeping the expectations just right is the hard part. Sometimes I catch myself saying "easy killer....you had a nice talk that is all it was don't start reserving the rental truck just yet" I get so pumped that I have to talk myself down. The higher the climb the faster the fall!
Gypsy,
Re-building trust is the single hardest thing I think we can do. We can't do it until we start talking and developing friendship. I guess the part I was missing in the beginning was the fact that every conversation does not have to be about M. Last night for example we talked about vacuums for her mother. I caught myself on the Lowes website checking out vacuums without her knowledge and almost bought one and had it shipped without saying a word to her. I stopped and thought........how would this be perceived.......I am still undecided. She made a comment yesterday that true compassion is giving without expecting anything in return. She is right, but how will it be perceived?
grr,
"and though she may be considering reconciliation, she is protecting you just in case
that is what we, as women do"
This is a very good point! I have not looked at it from that angle at all but it makes sense. At this juncture we just don't know but I do know she has gone from he!! NO to thinking of me in a more positive light.
When we spoke about DVD's yesterday she mentioned she had only taken 8 DVD from out collection and Knocked Up was one of them. She said "that was a very fun date we had, when we went to see that at the movies together" This comment is important simply because it shows that some positives are starting to come back.
So... from a girl who has dumped a few guys (sorry), she is not talking like someone who is about to get divorced.
Lis this is the first time in my life I have been dumped! I am going to call all my previous gf and apologize
. This is the part that I has always baffled me, for a woman who is "done" she sure talks to me a lot. Before though I just didn't get it the whole detachment thing or the give them space comment. My DB coach said something very interesting to me. "I think that your impression is if you are nice and let her go she will leave. If you validate and agree with her decision to leave she will stop calling you. The opposite is true. Don't be scared to let her go. Allow her time and space, that is what she is craving and screaming at you right now" At first that comment scared me. I think I get it now.
Ummm... the book her sister gave her??? She read that to you? grr is right, as usual, she's fighting pride right now. Perhaps she will use God as the "excuse" to come back (the best excuse there is, IMHO). I just love, love, love that whole exchange. From Genesis to Corinthians... so much scripture on why coming back to 2Step is the right thing to do for Mrs. 2Step.
When she first mentioned the book thing I was "thanks SIL you Bi#%%!!" After she began to read it I was like "Thanks SIL, that is a great book" LOL. It was a fun read.
Tell me, any mention of the paperwork??? You were real concerned about that a couple of days ago. Has she breathed a word?
I am soo glad you ask this question LIS because there has been 0 mention of this. I almost slipped a few times and asked if she received the paperwork but I didn't. The closes I came was asking her if mail had resumed because of the snow but it was done in such a way that she did not know my reasoning for asking. I really don't know what to make of this. Is this good? Is this bad? The subject has been completely mute.
Hey Lis I don't know what happened to the quotes. ugh!
W jus texted me a few minutes ago
W "Back at work....ugh...actual temp outside -22"
M "Good god! I tried helping you out and prayed for more snow. I guess God chose another prayer to answer. I guess he figured you needed the money....LOL"
W "LOL thanks for trying lol"
Small victory!
dude - she's thinking about you during the day. That's pretty huge. Feels good, doesn't it?
REMEMBER THAT FEELING! When you guys meet or talk after SHE calls you, tell her that. Say something like, "Thanks for texting me the other day just to say hi; it meant a lot."
Man, that will give you back in spades. You know why? She's trying to reach out even just a little bit. The fact that you are aware of it and mention it will validate her. I'm not sure why we as husbands didn't get that book when we exchanged vows but I'm POSITIVE we wouldn't be where we are if we did.
(that last sentence sounded weird typed but I hope you got it)
REMEMBER! Stay the course. Let her reach out to you. Enjoy the small victories and continue to GAL.
I'm very damn happy for ya!
baby steps, baby steps .... hang in there, 2step!
WOWOWOW!!!!
Great job validating and listening!!!!!!!
Amazing progress!!!!!
You were ignorant. There was a communication breakdown. Instead of trying different ways of getting through to you she just quietly cried herself to sleep.
I can so relate to your position here. My XH acted like everyting was perfectly fine for almost 2 years. He says he was just acting like everything was fine because he was hoping that would make everything go back to normal, but the only person he didn't have fooled was himself. Everyone else, including me, had NO CLUE anything was wrong, until I found out about his PA and then when I confronted him he told me he wanted to S. But it was my fault I wasn't a good enough mind reader to know that he was unhappy.
It's so frustrating. You look back and you see the times they were sad, mad, or grumpy, and wonder why you didn't realize what was going on. In my case, it was because my XH when asked what was wrong would reply, bad day at work, going back to school and dealing with immature selfish kids is horrible, other drivers are horrible, etc etc etc. He never said it was about me or us, even though he now claims that was always the underlying problem.
Anyways, I guess the point of my rambling post is that you can't make it all your fault. Both of you contributed to the mess you are in. Stereotypically, women talk more. When men don't listen, they talk more and/or louder. And hearin gthe same complaint but not having a consequence makes it seem less like a serious complaint. And stereotypically, men don't respond to that, they respond to actions, like her leaving. Now instead of hearing the broken record, an action makes it clear that it really is important, that she really means it.
So don't beat yourself up too much for not seeing it before. Your eyes have been opened now and you won't make that mistake in the future.
You can't change the past, so focus on the future. And you have a bright one in store for you!
Bolt,
Yeah I remember those days well. I hope to relive them. Is this what your sicth looked like in the very beginning?
IronMan,
Baby steps is right!! The hardest part is realizing you are taking them. I see a little opening and I want to start running. Consistency and patience. Two of my flaws are being tested daily.
yay!!!!
2step - i think this is big
enjoy the feeling, but stay calm and steady
xo
Thank you Michelle for sticking with my sicth for so long. I know that if I am not getting a 2x4 from you I must be doing something right. Waiting on my other favorite 2x4 person……where is the Gritter Keep me grounded.
I can so relate to your position here. My XH acted like everyting was perfectly fine for almost 2 years. He says he was just acting like everything was fine because he was hoping that would make everything go back to normal, but the only person he didn't have fooled was himself. Everyone else, including me, had NO CLUE anything was wrong, until I found out about his PA and then when I confronted him he told me he wanted to S. But it was my fault I wasn't a good enough mind reader to know that he was unhappy.
In my case I knew she was upset about certain things I just didn’t realize how upset and how hurt she was. She told me, she screamed at me, she argued with me. One thing she said to me was “I tried telling you every which I could. When I stopped caring I realized it would make you lash out more and I was scared that is why I left so quick.” Some things don’t hurt others cut deep. I never wanted to hurt her.
you can't make it all your fault
Once I get to this point I think the healing will be quicker. I struggle with this because she is such a caring person. When she talks to me it sounds like she knew so much better than I knew her.
You can't change the past, so focus on the future. And you have a bright one in store for you!
For xmas I sent her a present and she sent me one. I sent her a carousel (she collects them) on it was this message engraved “Nobody can go back and start a new beginning, but anyone can start today and make a new ending”
I appreciate your insight very much Michelle I am sure after over 9k post you have seen every sicth under the sun. I am glad you are so upbeat about mine. You have been instrumental and correcting my mistakes and pointing interpreting some of her comments for me. Thank you
Oh holy moley. I had no idea I had that many posts! LMAO I feel old now.
In my case I knew she was upset about certain things I just didn't realize how upset and how hurt she was. She told me, she screamed at me, she argued with me.
Yet she didn't do it in a way that actually communicated what she was trying to communicate. You say she knows you better than you know her...but if she knew you so well wouldn't she have known how to communicate what she needed from you?
There's two sides to every story. Yours, hers, and the truth is always a combination of both.
So listen, validate, work on yourself, learn from the past. But don't put it all on youself either. At some point down the road you guys will hopefully be working through these issues together, and she's got a lot to learn too.
Consistency and patience.
Keep working on it. And keep the M/R talk to a minimum for a while. While it's important to discuss the issues and figure out what went wrong, it's also very important to have light and fun and friendly conversations in between to build the friendship and trust. You need to keep a good ratio of fun stuff to serious stuff and not let the problems overwhelm the good memories you are creating.
Keep up the great work!
There's two sides to every story. Yours, hers, and the truth is always a combination of both.
So listen, validate, work on yourself, learn from the past. But don't put it all on youself either. At some point down the road you guys will hopefully be working through these issues together, and she's got a lot to learn too.
This is very good advice for the two of us 2Step...
BITS
Denver
Michelle,
You are right of course. I suppose my failings were hers as well. In the beginning I blamed myself for everything but I have been a little kinder to myself with the help of you and my fellow BITS.
Patience is something I struggle with very much but I have gotten much better.
I will be starting a new thread tonight but I have to think of a name. Tonight I am also going out with some friends for some food and drink. I will check with you guys later on tonigh
hahahaha... do yourself and your marriage a favor... STAY OFF THE PHONE WITH XGF'S
Have a blast tonight and holy cow, just know you are on the right path and STAY ON IT.
You rock...
Next thread: I'm 2Step and I rock!!! hahahahahaha
Hell, he's moving so fast he ain't doing the traditional 2-step, it's more like triple-two!
Lol michelle and lost I'm going to post something on my new thread I would like your insight on. Also those others who have followed my sitch I'm perplexed by this. It's regarding the D paperwork. On my way out tonight to do my best attempt to GAL but I will check on you guys from time to time as the evening goes