Hi Everyone
This is my first post.
H told me 2 weeks ago we were dead as a couple, didn't love each other, were no longer friends, didn't have any intimacy, he had lost hope, etcetcetc, that he wanted to split up. We have been married 14 years, trouble off and on, mostly never learning how to respect each other, fighting the same old battles over and over. ME being angry ALOT. Add in stepdaughter and his family issues to the existing problems and it's quite a boiling kettle of woe.
When H dropped the bomb, I pleaded, cried, begged, yelled. I could see that H just got more set in his decision, and became colder. I felt shamed and weak that I reacted that way and the next morning decided to woman up and get busy changing myself and how I responded to this whole situation.
I found DB and it really helps. It helps us to calmly approach what is happening so we can recognize our own behaviors. Until we do this we cannot either repair the damage to our marriages or end up divorced with dignity.THIS is important. Please don't ever lose sight that one must always preserve their dignity.
I have seen H show some positive signs to my changes-I am being calm, happy, positive, asking NO questions, smiling, etc.
Not sure of my future, still believe we will separate, then divorce at some point as H is is a retired engineer and once engineers make up their minds about something, they usually don't change course.
I am taking things one day at a time.It's hard, and some days I feel hopeless, other days I feel like I am conquering the world!
Thanks everyone, I have been reading the posts and they are very helpful.
Me -55
H-62
S- Welcome. And ((((hugs)))) to you. We're all in this boat together and it does suck. I've been DBing since Feb/March but as you can see from my thread I'm losing hope of reconciliation and don't know if I even want to anymore. We're still living together, which is hard, but also somewhat comforting b/c it's a transition of sorts.
Please tell us more when you're ready- there are some great vets on here with lots of experience.
take care--
S-
I'm really sorry you ended up here. I myself have been on here for a few months and where my outlook doesn't look good I can tell you I'm a much stronger and healthier person because of this site/forum. I've taken the advise of so many and it's helped me out so much.
I've learned to work on my issues that contributed to the downfall of my M. I've also started taking my life back which has been therapy in itself. Stay strong and keep an open mind.
Susan,
Sorry you're here. It sucks. But the best thing about this is that there's a tremendous number of really kind people who will try to help you through this.
Hi NB,
I read many of your posts and I am so sorry you are going through this "hell on Earth". We all need the support we can provide each other-I am here for you.
Thank you for the support. The timetable for my move out of the house, ( H owns house), per H is November, after Thanksgiving.I am having surgery end of Sept and H says I should be healed and ready to leave by November.My usual reaction would have been "I'll leave when I'm darn well ready". Now, since using the DB methods, I am agreeable with everything. I make my case when I need to in our bi-weekly "meetings", but I am calm, pleasant, SAFE to talk to. The way I see it, alot can happen between now and November. Time is our ally.
With that said, I agree with you- it is hard to be in limbo, but it gives us time to become wiser, stronger and healthier emotionally before we separate or D. In the event we all do get to the D stage, we will be able to know we really really tried to save our marriages. Time allows us to discover who we really are underneath all the anger, fear, neediness, etc. We will be better people because of DB techniques. While in limboland, I feel we just need to do the DB every day, pat ourselves on the back for staying calm and focused, and move forward, wherever that takes us. It is scary, and I feel scared and afraid several times each day of what the future holds for me. BUT at least since I have been doing DB, I do feel more in control of MY destiny and that is so powerful!
One not so great thing is that I was laid off from my job in April this year!! I am just taking it one step at a time.
Please just remember not to focus on what you did "wrong", but rather focus on what you are doing "right".
Take care and be good to yourself every day, you deserve it.
Hi Fighting,
I am so sorry you are having marital problems. You sound very focused and strong to me, keep it going!!
Thank you for the wise words- I am keeping an open mind. Some days I feel "weak", other days I feel somewhat stronger.
I agree with you- we all become much stronger once we start admitting our "flaws", take responsibility for them, incorporate DB into our lives and move forward.
I am aware and have admitted to myself that I am responsible for half the cause of my martial woes. I am no longer angry at myself, I have forgiven myself and my H for the way we destroyed our marriage. It does take two, but one spouse certainly can set a negative tone. Over the years my H and I did everything we could to destroy love and respect, because we never learned how to be friends. Look at how we treat our friends- do we treat our spouses that way? No, we don't- we think we are right, make our points, state our spouse is wrong, our needs come first, rather than doing what strengthens the marriage. I wish I would have found DB 14 years ago. I think it should be read by all couples before they marry. This is my second marriage and I didn't learn a thing the first time around about handling myself in a marriage.
At this point, I am just trying to be the best friend I can, to myself and my H.
H is noticing that I have begun changing- he mentioned that I seem happier.He did ask if I was pretending to be happy or was I in denial we were splitting. I smiled and said I am just thinking about things. H had a puzzled look on his face.I then steered the conversation to neutral ground. DB works.
Keep fighting, in a constructive way of course, and continue to be brave every day. Please keep me posted on how you are doing.
One thing I feel is very important for everyone doing DB. If you aren't doing it already, please be sure to keep all DB books, journals, etc, hidden so spouse cannot see them. At this point you don't want spouse to know you are doing DB. I believe they will see it as a trap or ?
Take care
Hi Pinhead,
Thanks!
Yes, so many people here and so supportive.
In a perfect world, the forums would be empty..Hopefully the more DB gets out there, the D rate will drop.
Take care and be strong
Hi NB,
How are you?
I wanted to add a few more things about myself since you kindly asked me to when you responded to my first posting.
Second marriage for both H and I. 14 years M. No kids for me, H has a 38 year old daughter, one 4 year old granddaughter. Daughter and granddaughter are apples of H's eye.
Problems with stepdaughter, has H wrapped around finger.Bone of contention for me. I made matters worse last time she visited (July 2010) and spilled hot cereal on my new leather recliner I paid for. I told her how she needed to act in my house, calmly.H didn't approve and didn't support me in this. H told me years ago if I get between he and his daughter or family I'd lose..then a few days after SD visit he dropped the bomb.
We live in his home, I have no financial claim on his home. So I will be moving out in November if all goes according to H timetable. I do feel the spouse who stays in the home has it easier in a split, as they are around comforting and usual surroundings. I guess those of us who will be moving out to a new place will just have to find comfort in knowing we finally arrived at the end of the guessing and waiting. Being in Limboland is not easy, but as I said in previous reply, it does give us time to use DB and see where that takes us.
If anyone out there is an engineer , please give me some insight into how you think! My H is a retired aerospace engineer and is very rigid in his thinking.No emotions show.
Take care
S -
First, I'm an engineer, so hopefully I will give you some insight.
You're right that engineers make up their mind about something and then they go to do it. In your H's mind, everything right now are things you have done. He probably doesn't think he's a contributor to the M problems. Therefore, he's decided that in order to get rid of these problems, he has to get rid of you.
This is where you can start working - stop doing those things that brought you to this unhappy place. Nagging, yelling, telling SD what to do, all of those things that might be problem areas for him. Start doing a 180 NOW.
It's my opinion as an engineer that we don't fix things that aren't broken. If they are working and functioning as they should, we don't go looking for problems with them. We won't re-engineer the wheel.
If you start doing 180's he'll see that slowly you're "fixed" and he might be inclined to resume some form of relationship, friendship at first, maybe M later down the road.
The thing is, engineers don't question themselves at any point after they've made a decision unless they see clear indications that they've made a bad decision. Then they'll explore that alternative decision with caution, still thinking they're original was the right one.
Just some experience from someone who is an engineer, and my father was an engineer too. We're VERY logical thinkers. If something logical is thrown our way (hey - she's nice, fun, likes being around me...) we will entertain it.
You have one good thing going for you here - you're in the same house. Steady DB will keep you there.
Hi John28,
Thank you for the reply. All very insightful. Reading what you wrote made me very scared too.
You are right. Logical thinking IS an engineers thing. H tells me that all the time.My dad was an engineer too, you'd think I 'd know how to communicate positively with H since I grew up with this type of person.
I agree with you- H thinks this is all my "fault", and his solution is for me to be gone. He told me when he dropped the bomb, that he doesn't want to talk about who did what, and discuss blame. H stated he wants to stay on a path that leads to splitting up.
I am doing the last resort, the 180. I am being calm, pleasant, not talking much, being positive, not being angry, not being emotional, being agreeable, etc. I am doing everything opposite from what I had been doing. I believe all this has H thinking, " we can split as friends". But, with that said, DB will help me keep it together, no matter the outcome.
I can see H has noticed the changes in me and is curious. H asked me if I wanted to make breakfast with him today. Usually we go our separate ways for meals in the house. In spite of a bit of softening on H's part, I am not allowing myself to get hopeful. I firmly believe H and I are done, in his eyes for sure. I am keeping an open mind.
H's daughter will be here over Christmas so H will surely want me gone before then unless a miracle happens.
H is putting together financial spreadsheets, etc. All very businesslike. No emotions that I see, but maybe underneath that aloof, cold exterior there are deep emotions. How do engineers deal with their emotions??
Thanks for your help.
Take care
S1S,
I am also an engineer. While many of the attributes you and John28
mention are usual for engineers, especially senior engineers, there are others that work in your favor.
Ordinarrilly, we tend to be highly creative and are accostomed to thinking out of the box (assuming he was good at engineering). We are naturally inquisitive and are usually more interested in the how's and why's than most people. Also, it's been my experience that when presented by either evidence or a logical argument that our intended course is not going to be the BEST solution, we are typically quicker and more willing to adapt than the other proffesionals we work with.
Furthermore, our vanities tend to be tied to what we can accomplish with our minds and in the scope of our knowlege. I.e. We love to be asked to fix things. Especially when there's a tough problem to overcome.
Now, as to feelings, I am not a typical engineer. I don't hide mine behind a wall. And like John28, am a decent communicator. If your H is not gifted in these ways it might make it tougher to judge your progress. But that doesn't mean it's Impossible.
If you can get him interested in overcoming obsticles together, however mundane, it will probably piqué his interest. This is probably why he's noticing your changes and is curious about them. Keep working and stay open to different things. Be prepered to keep him guessing and playing mental gymnastics. He might start enjoying the challenge offiguring the new you out.
Don't get me wrong, it might not go the way you want, but there's a chance that you become more attractive to him by keeping his mind active and little by little, he loses his interest in D because there is a better solution right in front of him. At least, in the mean time, you are working on you and either way, you end up better and stronger for it.
Good luck.
Hi S - I have been going down the Divorce Remedy road a few weeks now. I've seen very positive results from my H. If you find my thread, you'll see he actually hired a lawyer and had them send me a little (with no warning) that he wanted to end the M. At first I argued, cried, reasoned and none of it helped. My H is an engineer too (liked the posts from the guys btw). THen I found DR and this wonderful site. REad the quotes threads - they helped me tremendously. Within 10 days of doing 180s, detaching respectfully, agreeing, validating, apologizing (even though obviously it takes two to mess up a M) I saw some positive signs. Not out of the woods as the lawyer is still lurking and I have had a couple days where I've had to dig deep and decide if this is in fact what I want after years of rockiness, detachment, etc.
THe best thing about DR is you will start feeling better about YOU. You will find YOU again and not the angry, annoyed person your M created.
I told my H and I meant it that I didn't want to go back to the way things were either, so either we work hard to make it better or we end it. BUt at least at the end of the road I will know I did everything I could and was the best I could be.
Hi A_Goodman,
Thanks for the reply and valuable insight.
H was a very good senior engineer, retired now for 4 years.H likes intellectual conversations and lately we have been having some of these.
Yesterday was H's birthday-I did nothing but say HB. H told me no gifts ( I hadn't planned on getting him one anyway), and so I only said HB. Yesterday, he asked me if I wanted to go to lunch or early dinner.I was surprised to say the least.Lunch went well.
I still feel His relieved we are more like friends as he will have easier time splitting up. I don't think he is changing his mind about splitting up. I realize second guessing is not positive so I shall not dwell on that scenario.
I can see H is very wary of my changes. I keep on doing the 180 no matter what. In the end I will benefit from this even if H and I split as scheduled in November. H will be bringing up seeing a lawyer tomorrow , we have weekly meetings, at his request.
H is pretty closed emotionally, however this might be due to my old way of pursuing , looking for responses, etc.
Honestly I think H and I have never really been the real us since we married!
Anyway, thanks for the advice. I will take all you said to heart, I will keep doing the 180 and hope for the best.
Hope you have a great day
Hi LRT Land,
What a helpful message you gave me. Thank you.
It helps to hear from engineers and women married to them. Engineers are a different breed!
I am glad things are moving forward for you.
I realize my mistakes in the M. I am owning them and am taking steps to be the best Susan I can be no matter what the outcome.
H is skeptical of my changes- I have not said anything about changing to me, I am just changing. H is a show me type, actions not words. I am just reading DB, and doing the 180. If I were H, I would be wary too. I have said so many times over the years I will change, etc, as has H. I realize now, I never really knew what I was talking about or how to actually change until DB came along.
You raised a good point-some days I think I would be better off split from H. I still struggle with anger towards him as he (I am assuming here which isn't good) still blames me for all the M mess. Then I flipflop and think we never really had a chance to have a good M until I found DB, that implementing what I have now learned into our M could "save" us and we could grow and flourish as people and as a couple.
Am I just being wishful????
Anyway, have a great day and thanks so much for your support.
S1S,
We're all here because we're wishful. That doesn't mean we're wrong, hope is always present in even the direst circumstances.
Keep doing your GAL, your 180s, and the LRT.
Susan - to get past the anger you have to forgive your H. Not for him but for you. Let go of the past. Concentrate on now and see how the future unfolds. Be the best you can be NOW.
My DD is 5, and I didn't want her world torn apart. I didn't want my family torn apart. As distant and as detached as we were, I knew we hadn't tried our best. H admitted he hadn't been trying. Neither had I. He has slowly started to meet my needs. We aren't having discussions yet about the M, the lawyer, the future, but I am okay with focusing on today. I am encouraged by the R that has developed since I started using the Divorce Remedy tools.
Being single is hard (did that for a long time). Being married is hard. There are advantages to each. Some days I think my problems are caused because my H still feels a struggle at times between wanting that carefree, minimal responsibility life v. being married with kids and limited freedom and lots of responsibility.
Can you guess how badly I want to ask what he's going to do about the lawyer??! I am holding out as long as I can - and then holding out longer. It helps to focus on my goal - which is to find out if the best this R can be is good enough.
S1S, Even though your H is a engineer this is a battle over how he
feels. You need to change how he feels about you. What will he be losing?
H will be bringing up seeing a lawyer tomorrow
Agree with him, he needs to see a lawyer because you have been doing some thinking and
Honestly I think H and I have never really been the real us since we married!
This just isn't working for you either. You respect him and yourself enough to be your true selves. Then let him know you are going to go see a lawyer if he does to protect yourself. Be calm, cool and collected. He can't argue if you agree with him.
Now just imagine how is he going to
feel after that conversation? Put yourself in his shoes. It's kind of sexy isn't it?
You can handle it.
Cheers
Hi Coach,
Thank you for the insight. I have been reading alot of your posts. You are very insightful and helpful to us struggling souls.
A battle over how H feels? Yes, it is that. Although H doesn't "appear " to "feel" much, appears to be in the very cut and dried engineer mindset. H is and always has been, a very aloof man, doesn't show his feelings easily. Very self contained. Rarely gets angry, just becomes colder. Not sure how he is feeling, sad somewhat I can tell. H is curious about my "happy face" and positivity. I can tell H is relieved too. No fighting means to him we can split as friends- if we split as friends, there won't be the messiness this time like he had in previous end of first M.
Your point, "What will H be losing". Hmmmm... I need to continue to show him the "real" me, the one who isn't angry, upset, yelling, argumentative, hurt, etc. The DB and 180 is helping me do that. I am very afraid of saying the wrong thing so I keep to myself alot while H and I are home together. Any tips on what I can do to sort of bridge that ? I know it will take time before I trust myself to behave "well" all the time.
Good advice- I already am prepared to agree to the lawyer appointment H brings up tomorrow.I will tell H that I have been thinking and a split is best for us, etc.
H mentioned in last Saturday's meeting (we meet Wednesday's and Saturday's to discuss the path to splitting we are on), we "will need to see a lawyer regarding splitting assets, discussing legal sep, D", etc. H suggested we keep costs down by seeing ONE lawyer together. H's first M ended in D and he said ex took him to the proverbial cleaners, so he is quite nervous of costs this time around. What is your take on H suggesting ONE lawyer?
I agree, if I do as you suggest, it IS rather sexy and mysterious and all that. needy spouses are never sexy! Good advice Coach!
Thanks again, have a great day~
Hi Pinhead,
Yes, we are here because we know in our hearts and heads,(most importantly, our heads), we need to stop doing what isn't working.
A big step for me was taking all emotion out of the equation. H always told me I was way too emotional. H isn't emotional.My emotional behavior scared him. It scared me too.
You know, thinking about the path we are on with DB, and our 180's, sounds like such an easy solution. But owning up to and then breaking the negative behaviors and habits isn't easy. I will say, though, that I feel more at peace with myself the last few weeks, than I have in a long time. I actually am starting to forgive myself for who I was before DB. I still get that "angry feeling" here and there, and have to tell myself STOP IT.
Thanks for your support. Have a wonderful day~
S1S,
Making changes in yourself can be really hard, especially when you don't see any corresponding changes in your spouse. That's why it's so important to make changes that are good for you, regardless if your spouse stays/returns.
Hi LRT Land,
You are right, thank you for reminding me I need to forgive H.I guess my being angry here and there is reverting back to the past and that blame game nonsense. Yes, I need to be the best I can be NOW while I am in still in the M home.
I sure hope things work out for you.It sounds like things are in a cooling off stage-allows for some of the intensity to wane.
I agree- M and being single are both hard, each has its own challenges. When I was single ( for 5 years post divorce), I was happy. At times I was lonely. I do remember being very happy when I remarried. The first few years were good.
I can imagine how hard it is not asking your spouse if has seen a lawyer. The fear of the unknown is a tough situation to stay calm about. Our heads tend to focus on the "what ifs". It sounds like you are doing remarkably well though.
It sounds as if you are re-thinking your R and if it meets your needs.I have been doing that also.I think it is important we are clear to ourselves we are doing DB and 180's for the right reason, not just out of fear.
Having goals is a must for us during these stressful times. I keep a journal, it helps me focus on my goals.
Take care ~
Hi Pinhead,
So true.
I feel better about myself now (realize I am not a "bad" person, just lost myself there for awhile), and know no matter what happens with M, I will be okay and a wiser person.
I no longer am in denial that I did some pretty rotten things in the M. No infidelity, but negative behaviors that cut H probably as much as an affair would.
The things we do to the people we profess to love! Crazy isn't it. A wise woman recently reminded me many spouses treat strangers better than they do their spouses. Sad, but true.
Thanks for the great support~
I am an Engineer too. I have to say that it's a part of my own problems. Like many here before me wonderfully outlined the Engineer's thinking I will not try to outdo that.
In my case my W also is a logical and rational person (when not drunk). That fact completely disabled us to talk about our feelings for 13 long years. Had that happened I won't be in a mess that I am in right now.
We thought that when two minds are alike, there is no need of verbal communication. WRONG!!!
Should have picked an Architect for a partner.
Hi Pookie69,
Thanks for the response.
Sorry you are here after 13 years M.
Can you flesh out what you meant "I have to say that it's( being engineer), a part of my own problems"??? What part of being an engineer and having an engineers mindset create conflict in your M? Don't mean to pry, so if you'd rather not answer, it's A-okay.
My father is a retired engineer-I have really started noticing how my mother relates to my dad's often controlling, bossy, analytical, logical mindset. She doesn't sweat the small stuff. Too bad I wouldn't have noticed this years ago. I do now though.
You mentioned W drinking.That is another layer on a troubled M.
I hope things get better for you.
Take care
Not to be political but like Winston Churchill once said "if you are not liberal at the age of 20 you have no heart. If you are not conservative at the age of 40 you have no brain. "
What I mean by that in here is that logic and rationale always dominated my thinking and I despised people who used their feelings to express themselves. They always arrived at wrong conclusions. At least in my world.
When I met my W I felt connection immediately because of the clear thinking and no drama with emotions. Sure we felt love but it was a calculated and logical result of our own mutual attraction towards each other.
Now looking back that logic has driven us apart. The destruction of our R is nothing but irrational.
I don't know if that's what you asked for.
There are deep feelings in logical people. They may not be in the surface but they're there. If you are not one of those people and your H is you need to try to think like he does to penetrate through that shield. It has to be a logical path that he would understand.
I'm typing from the phone so forgive me misspellings.
Hi pookie69,
You are very astute. I like your quotes.
I can see how two people being logical in a M could cause a problem, just as one person being logical and one being emotional causes problems. Balance must be the answer. R's sure are complicated.
My H seems to despise people who are emotional. All during our M, I was very emotional, H is not wired that way. Very logical and analytical. H always noted my emotional side and said nothing good comes from being emotional. I won't apologize for being emotional, just wish I would have controlled and expressed my feelings in a more positive way.
Speaking of emotions, since the bomb dropped and with doing DB/180, I am not allowing much emotion to seep in these days. I am sort of numb I guess- afraid to feel much these days.I am trying to be businesslike in my communications with H. He seems to like that style. Is safer for him.
Tomorrow H is going to bring up seeing a lawyer, so I have to detach and handle myself in an emotionless manner. I refer to not being emotional as "divorcing" myself from my feelings. Right or wrong, that is my method right now.
Thanks for the insight.I hope all works out for you.
Hi NB,
I read many of your posts and I am so sorry you are going through this "hell on Earth". We all need the support we can provide each other-I am here for you.
Thank you! Sorry I missed this- I usually don't look for messages to me on other people's threads and clearly forgot to put a notify tag on your thread so I lost track of it!
Thank you for the support. The timetable for my move out of the house, ( H owns house), per H is November, after Thanksgiving.I am having surgery end of Sept and H says I should be healed and ready to leave by November.My usual reaction would have been "I'll leave when I'm darn well ready". Now, since using the DB methods, I am agreeable with everything. I make my case when I need to in our bi-weekly "meetings", but I am calm, pleasant, SAFE to talk to. The way I see it, alot can happen between now and November. Time is our ally.
Interesting, we have a similarity in that I need to move out by around then, too. I certainly hope you'll be able to be on your own by then physically- is there anyone you can stay with if you need to at that point?
With that said, I agree with you- it is hard to be in limbo, but it gives us time to become wiser, stronger and healthier emotionally before we separate or D. In the event we all do get to the D stage, we will be able to know we really really tried to save our marriages. Time allows us to discover who we really are underneath all the anger, fear, neediness, etc. We will be better people because of DB techniques. While in limboland, I feel we just need to do the DB every day, pat ourselves on the back for staying calm and focused, and move forward, wherever that takes us. It is scary, and I feel scared and afraid several times each day of what the future holds for me. BUT at least since I have been doing DB, I do feel more in control of MY destiny and that is so powerful!
One not so great thing is that I was laid off from my job in April this year!! I am just taking it one step at a time.
I'm sorry about the job but that's wonderful to hear that DB is empowering you! So are you financially dependant on H now? How's the job outlook? I agree with you that in a way, the limbo time can be useful- to gather records, take steps towards being on our own, consult the Ls as needed, etc. I'm both benefitting from and dying a little each day with it as my hope fades. Not even sure I'm DBing anymore, more like moving towards acceptance and trying to face my fears.
Please just remember not to focus on what you did "wrong", but rather focus on what you are doing "right".
Take care and be good to yourself every day, you deserve it.
Thank you again. You too. One thing I can definitively say is that, while I've always known I was tough, I had NO IDEA how strong I really am until this thing hit me. I have discovered I can weather a lot, take a LOT, withstand torrants of ranting and anger and calmly walk away and (mostly) shake it off. At first that sounds "weak", but it's not- I have the power over him when I just sit there and observe and let the stuff deflect off of me. It makes me feel stronger to be able to say I didn't sink to his level. Keeping my goals in sight helps me immensely in this- to protect and help DD thrive and feel loved, to not let him beat me down, to come out of this with my integrity intact and hold my head high, doing what's best for me and D. If an action doesn't involve doing one of those things then I try not to do it. I've learned to compartmentalize- something I've never been able to do before but which is now essential to survival.
Hanging in there. Had a nasty week last week and am frustrated I can't post as many details as I want here. Are you on the alt? If you feel comfortable, please post what your name is there so I can find you. I post MUCH more there in the way of details!
I wanted to add a few more things about myself since you kindly asked me to when you responded to my first posting.
Second marriage for both H and I. 14 years M. No kids for me, H has a 38 year old daughter, one 4 year old granddaughter. Daughter and granddaughter are apples of H's eye.
Problems with stepdaughter, has H wrapped around finger.Bone of contention for me. I made matters worse last time she visited (July 2010) and spilled hot cereal on my new leather recliner I paid for. I told her how she needed to act in my house, calmly.H didn't approve and didn't support me in this. H told me years ago if I get between he and his daughter or family I'd lose..then a few days after SD visit he dropped the bomb.
Wow. I have no experience with blended families, but I imagine it's tough. It seems like in our our 1st M's we transfer our allegiance from our family of origin to our spouses, then kids, if we have them. But in a 2nd M can you ever choose/be loyal to your spouse over your previous family? That's a tough one and I'm sorry there was even an issue over it.
We live in his home, I have no financial claim on his home. So I will be moving out in November if all goes according to H timetable. I do feel the spouse who stays in the home has it easier in a split, as they are around comforting and usual surroundings. I guess those of us who will be moving out to a new place will just have to find comfort in knowing we finally arrived at the end of the guessing and waiting. Being in Limboland is not easy, but as I said in previous reply, it does give us time to use DB and see where that takes us.
Very similar to me. At first I was resentful about the house (we have a bizarre and seemingly unfair situation I won't go into - logically it should be half mine...), but I decided to try to let it go. D will still get to live there some of the time. I will get to choose how I decorate, not clean up after anyone but D and myself in my new place, etc. The end of the guessing and waiting will be a relief almost at this point.
I've got no advice on the engineer- it's probably less an engineer thing and more of his is the type of personality that is attracted to things like engineering, but that's not very helpful either, is it?
I still don't have a good grasp of the details- but maybe there aren't many more- I mean, did he ever try to work through any of the issues with you? Go to MC?
You can always visit me over on my thread too
- linked below.
take care-
My H seems to despise people who are emotional. All during our M, I was very emotional, H is not wired that way. Very logical and analytical. H always noted my emotional side and said nothing good comes from being emotional. I won't apologize for being emotional, just wish I would have controlled and expressed my feelings in a more positive way.
So there you go. You understand perfectly how he's wired. Now do 180 as you suggested, put aside your emotions and act logically. He will notice that.
Hi NB,
How are you today?
We DO have alot of similarities.
Is there someone you can stay with also when you move in November?Do you know why your H picked November?
Yes, I could stay with my parents or oldest brother. I am hesitant to do that as I really don't want them involved, plus I'd still be in limbo. As you pointed out, that is very hard. H is suggesting either I rent an apt or possibly buy a condo with my separate/saved cash.I really don't know yet what I will do.
H is very curious about my 180. Twice he has said he notices I am calm, positive and appear happy. H asked me today "how" was feeling.I said I really didn't want to get into discussing emotions. H was surprised by this reply. I did tell him this M wasn't working for me either and that we both need to be free to be our true selves. H said yes, when we blame each other we aren't our real selves and if we are angry we cannot ever have a new good life. I worry that by saying these types of things, I am giving H signal I want out. Agreeing with H is the right thing to do, but it is scary too.
Our meeting today was all business. It's hard, but I got through it.I was businesslike also. H is not emotional and is all about making lists.I realize this is how H controls his emotions. H's emotions are carefully controlled. I have been seeing a bit of a crack in the tough, cold veneer.
I am financially dependent on H at this time. I receive unemployment but it isn't much compared to my real salary when working. If only I were working it would be much easier!! I am 55 and was thinking before the bomb dropped, of retiring. The job hunt hasn't turned up much. I will keep on looking and something WILL pop.I have hip replacement surgery Sept 27th, so really cannot start working anyway (this is why I am still in the house with H, he is allowing me to have surgery on his medical ins. before I move out), until I am healed and have moved.
I was thinking yesterday, that this has been quite a year!!
1.Lost job in April
2.Bomb dropped July 20th. "Separated" but still at home
3.Moving in November unless H wants me to stay and I agree
I like what you said about being strong, NB. WE are sure that, my friend.We never really know how tough our crust is until these types of experiences test us.We both has risen to the challenges. I am very proud of you!!!!!
It is so healthy for you that you remain calm when H yells, and rants. YOU will always have your self respect.
What is the "alt " you mentioned???
Yes, H and I did the old type of MC.It only made things worse. Have you tried MC?? I think SBT is the answer- if a M can indeed be saved, this is how it will be.
I hope I answered some of your questions.
Please write when you can. I enjoy keeping in touch with another woman warrior!! Let's both focus on ourselves and you, of course, your DD.
Thanks so much for your insight.
Make it a great day~
Whatever you do don't involve the family members. You could stay with them but don't talk about yout R. That's never good. They have their best intentions at heart but they are self serving. They will give you wrong advice.
Make your OWN decisions how to proceed. If you haven't read DR go ahead and do it. If you have, read it again.
Hi pookie69,
I acted logically today during our "meeting. I was not emotional (haven't been for weeks now), while in meeting or even after it was over. In fact, H asked how I was feeling. I said I didn't wish to discuss emotions.
H stated he noticed I no longer blame or say much, that I am correct, that by being positive and not arguing, we will be able to be happy in our separate futures, neither spouse blaming the other. H said I was right in my thinking, become our true selves before we became miserable in M.
H is seeing my changes, twice he has asked about them. I may have given him the impression today, I too wanted out of M. I said I respect him and that M wasn't working for me either and that we both needed to be free to be our real selves. I wanted to state something along those lines, but maybe not quite that way. But maybe it's a good thing I said what I said- both H and I deserve to be happy. I still think we could stay together, but I H is still committed to the "end".
Thanks for the support.
Hi pookie69,
I agree. Family should not be involved in R issues. I only make decisions based on what I want, not from input extended family or friends.
None of my friends know anything about my M problems. Only my oldest brother is aware of my status right now. This is only because he is having R problems with his live in girlfriend. Family usually "takes" our side no matter what. I don't want any part of that. I know what I did in the M, the real truth.
Not the time to have my head buried in the sand.
I have read both Divorce Busting and Divorce Remedy, twice each. I am doing the 180. This is the last resort. H wants out of M.
Thanks for the advice.
I would take an advantage of opportunities like that. You are DONE with the CURRENT R. That is not to say that you don't want a NEW R that may involve him.
It's the way you word things to him. When you say that M is not working for you either, you mean that the current M is not working.
When you say that we need to be true to ourselves first, that means not being true made you miserable in your M before. Now there is an opportunity to prove otherwise.
Leave out words that directly hint that you agree that it's all over. He may not catch that right away. But if he turns around later (I hope he does), he will be wondering what you meant all this time and may say that he thought you wanted M to be over too. You can proudly add that you never actually said that. You wanted to close an old miserable chapter and start the new clean one.
I don't know If this makes sense but that's how I feel about my own sitch. Yes, I said "feel".
None of my friends know anything about my M problems. Only my oldest brother is aware of my status right now. This is only because he is having R problems with his live in girlfriend. Family usually "takes" our side no matter what. I don't want any part of that. I know what I did in the M, the real truth.
That's exactly the problem. They take sides and even though they may take your side they hate to see you suffer and push you to leave your H for the sake of your own sanity. They think they are helping but actually causing the breakup. They are miserable themselves to watch you being hurt.
It has an adverse effect and they won't even know they're doing it.
Hi Pookie69,
Thanks for the insight.I guess that is what I meant by what I said, free to be our true selves in a R/M. H still is most likley thinking I agree with him, ending M is best. H is very literal , so what I said this morning, he will take as my full agreement that M should be over.
Yes, your wisdom makes sense.
I hope things turn around for you also.
I just am not feeling good about what I said this morning, the being free part. I think I implied we should part ways. I am doing some hand wringing over it, thought I was past all that. It's making me nervous. Should I say anything to H to clarify? HELP!!! lol
Hi pookie69,
You are right again. Best to focus on resolving our own R problems.
Less is more theory works every time.
I don't think clarifying what you said right now is a good idea. He heard what he wanted to hear anyway. One extra or one less word does not mean anything to him right now.
It's like when my W threw a fit the other night and wanted me to move out again. After she calmed down she finally asked "What do you want?" I almost fell into that trap. I would have loved to explain how I want our M to survive, etc, etc.
But what she really meant was "What does it take to get you out of my life? House, pets, money, what?"
That's the state of mind WAW is right now. Misunderstanding that question would have been a mistake. It would have made me look pursuing and weak.
I have a long way to go if I ever get there.
Hi pookie69,
Okay, you are right.AGAIN!! lol Thanks...
I do think my H asking how I feel was looking for me to say I want the M to work. You know, testing to see if the old Susan is in there beneath the now "new" Susan. I am glad I didn't do say anything like that. H also said "we are separated even though we are still in house together". Really, so why should I fret over a word I said. Thanks for taking the 2x4 upside my head!!!
I am glad you didn't fall into the trap your WAW set up for you either. Good for you for being strong. Let her rant and rave, you stay cool, calm, collected.
I think the WAS should be the one to leave. Unfortunately my H owns this house.
Sorry you are in this rocky M situation.
Make it as great a day as you can~
Susan,
I am in the same sitch when it comes to the house. She took over the mortgage years ago. It's all hers now.
I agree that the one who breaks the family should leave, but it does not always work that way.
If I end up moving at least the door will stay open. We have 4 dogs and a cat that I will be visiting. She won't be able to shut me out of her life completely. At least I can maintain contact and see if DB works.
On the other hand if she leaves she would be out of her comfort zone and may turn around sooner. Then again, she may just sever all the ties.
The bottom line is that the detachment has to happen within the same house or not. That's the only way to break the misery.
Hang in there.
Susan - I told my H that I didn't want to hurt him anymore so I would look for a lawyer, but that wasn't what I wanted - that I wanted to work on the M. I said I didn't want the old M either but I thought we owed it to ourselves to see if we could make things better and then if not we'd at least know we gave it our all.
A month later and I am seeing some real movement from him. Dare I say, he even seems happy to be around me!
Hi pookie69.
That's too bad about your W owning house.I think it makes things more "scary". Staying where we are would be easier, at least we would be in familiar surroundings, with all our "stuff". Since we don't own any part of the homes we live in, I believe we are legally considered tenants.
Your take on leaving is good, and makes sense.You will be visiting your pets and will see W, so maybe she will miss you and be open to working on R.
Are you legally separating, separating, or D..if you don't mind my asking.
I have a desert tortoise, Ernie, (he's my "kid") that I will have to leave at the house. H and I built a new large and very nice enclosure for him a few months ago and I don't wish to uproot the tortoise from his comfort zone. I will hate not seeing Ernie every day. I am a huge animal lover and need that contact.
Misery is right. I am sorry to sound so down and negative today- it has been a very bad day for me. Meeting days to discuss our "path" between H and I always stir up emotions. I feel some of the old anger creeping back in. Guess I "resent" H staying put and having a beautiful home to live in that I helped create.I know its backsliding thinking that way. H's list stating all the jointly owned furniture and pricing, annoyed me. Almost all furn. was placed into his column, and he will pay me half for anything I don't take. An example- I spent $1700.00 on two leather recliners. Per H, if I leave them here, he pays me $850. H gets two chairs for $850.00. I am sure it all makes sense, but as I said I am not having a good day.
Tomorrow is a new day, and another chance to shine.
Hang in
Hi LRT Land,
Amazing!! I am so happy for you.
Today...I am convinced my H won't change his mind. I feel H believes he is on the right path and that path is without me. As I said to another poster, I am having a "bad" day!
I just have to take each day as it comes and start making concrete plans for a new life.
Thanks for writing.
Hang in there and good luck!
Eh, so so. It's been a rough 10 days or so for me.
We DO have alot of similarities.
Is there someone you can stay with also when you move in November?Do you know why your H picked November?
It was picked for him due to other circumstances I can't go into here. Btw, the "alt" is Facebook and if you have an account for your DB self only, you can interact with a lot of us there, too. If you create a DB account there, send me your user name and I'll hook up with you and be able to share more details.
I went into more detail on my thread (I think), but I'll be moving into an apartment before the drop dead date. Just need to figure out custody of my child first.
Yes, I could stay with my parents or oldest brother. I am hesitant to do that as I really don't want them involved, plus I'd still be in limbo. As you pointed out, that is very hard. H is suggesting either I rent an apt or possibly buy a condo with my separate/saved cash.I really don't know yet what I will do.
H is very curious about my 180. Twice he has said he notices I am calm, positive and appear happy. H asked me today "how" was feeling.I said I really didn't want to get into discussing emotions. H was surprised by this reply. I did tell him this M wasn't working for me either and that we both need to be free to be our true selves. H said yes, when we blame each other we aren't our real selves and if we are angry we cannot ever have a new good life. I worry that by saying these types of things, I am giving H signal I want out. Agreeing with H is the right thing to do, but it is scary too.
There are various opinions on this, but it's being discussed a little in the "Setting them free" thread if you want to go check it out. Myself and a friend who's also here on the boards felt like you do and didn't want to be mis-perceived by agreeing with them. I believe that by DBing I was kind of mis-perceived anyway and let him to believe I didn't care that he wanted a D (may be less due to DB than to his personality- I'll never know). But he noticed my changes too and for awhile the changes made ME feel better, which is the most important thing. It was also an important symbol to do the 180s b/c it makes them question: if they're convinced we have certain traits/behaviors and that those are things they can't live with anymore and they know we'll never change... then they have their reason for D. If they see that in other areas we are perfectly capable of happily making changes... it makes them question- could she change this other thing, the thing that I'm running away from- too??
What I and my friend decided to do about the "how will he know if I really still want to work things out if I agree w/him?" dilemma was, in our own way, to say "I do not want to be doing this, but I will respect your wishes to end the M" a few times. I see some wise advice to you above that contradicts this and it's totally valid- you have to decide what you can live with. For me, it was worse to imagine that if I DIDN'T make it clear, I would always wonder if I had, if it would've made a difference, than it was to risk pushing him away by repeating it a few times over the course of months. In the end, he has still claimed he thought I didn't care, but I also don't think that means he was ever going to change his mind.
Our meeting today was all business. It's hard, but I got through it.I was businesslike also. H is not emotional and is all about making lists.I realize this is how H controls his emotions. H's emotions are carefully controlled. I have been seeing a bit of a crack in the tough, cold veneer.
I am financially dependent on H at this time. I receive unemployment but it isn't much compared to my real salary when working. If only I were working it would be much easier!! I am 55 and was thinking before the bomb dropped, of retiring. The job hunt hasn't turned up much. I will keep on looking and something WILL pop.I have hip replacement surgery Sept 27th, so really cannot start working anyway (this is why I am still in the house with H, he is allowing me to have surgery on his medical ins. before I move out), until I am healed and have moved.
I was thinking yesterday, that this has been quite a year!!
1.Lost job in April
2.Bomb dropped July 20th. "Separated" but still at home
3.Moving in November unless H wants me to stay and I agree
We could compare notes on crappy years- but only in the alt.
I'm so sorry for your terrible year. Maybe 2011 will be our year, you think?
I like what you said about being strong, NB. WE are sure that, my friend.We never really know how tough our crust is until these types of experiences test us.We both has risen to the challenges. I am very proud of you!!!!!
It is so healthy for you that you remain calm when H yells, and rants. YOU will always have your self respect.[quote]
I was never a fiery person to begin with, more of a conflict-avoidant, but it's hard not to argue back when someone's attacking you. However, I'm finding it easier and easier to just observe and think how silly he sounds.
[quote]Yes, H and I did the old type of MC.It only made things worse. Have you tried MC?? I think SBT is the answer- if a M can indeed be saved, this is how it will be.
What's SBT? Yes, many therapies we tried. It is only as good as the 2 participants and if 1 isn't willing to examine their own actions and contributions AND do something to change, it will never help. I couldn't do it all by myself.
You take care--
Hi NB,
Sorry it's been a rough 10 days or so for you.
2011 will arrive and we will be settled and happy once again.
I used to have a Facebook acct, but dropped it.I may start it up again.If I do,I will certainly send you my username.
So..you are leaving before the drop dead date? I am thinking of doing this myself. Being in La La Limboland is too hard. Some may say I might be not letting enough time go by to see if DB can work to stop the split, but signs are H won't change his mind. Yes, there have been a few good signs, but I do believe today, the die has been cast. After all, H is a logical engineer and I am not sure I can be logical enough to change his mind! Plus, part of our problems are lack of a physical R and H says I am post menopausal and not interested in that.H says he needs and wants that. It's not true I don't. How can a W wish to be close to her H when she feels she doesn't like her or love her? H doesn't get that part.
I may see if I can move up my surgery date. If so, I can be out when I decide to be out. Not really comfortable with having H dictate how all should progress.
H has been whistling a happy tune all day. Is driving me nutty. Gee, do ya think that is H's purpose? lol.
Yes, I also think that way- the 180 makes them think of us as we were prior to all the crap. I was just worried I gave the wrong message to H this morning, but another poster said my H heard what he wanted to hear anyway and one or two words really won't make a difference to my H. The poster is right.
Personally, I really am uncomfortable being an invisible W.H told me we are separated right now. I am starting to feel as if I need to move on. I think maybe you and I will feel stronger if we leave at a date of our choosing. Do you feel that way, NB??
SBT is solution based therapy- it's what the DB and DR books teach.
Hang in there and do what feels right for you .
I just want the tightness in my chest to go away! Feels like a 500 pound elephant is sitting there! Anxiety, she is a silent, but heavy partner now. LOL
Susan - you will have good days and bad. That's human nature even when things are going well. My H spent a week telling me what a horrible W I had been, that I was a b*tch, sxless b*tch, that he couldn't wait to have sx with other women. If I tried to refute what he said he'd tell me I was lying. It was awful. He said his mind was made up - he was done.
It's never over 'til its over, and even then it might not be over.
COnsider this time as a window of opportunity. Be your best and see if your H wants the same kind of R that you do. If not, you'll be in a better place for the next one.
Hi LRT Land,
You are right. Thanks for the 2x4!
Sorry you had to endure the rants, cruel and hurtful at that, from your H.
Doing the DB/180 really helps handling that type of behavior.
I am going to work even harder at being patient and positive. These are two areas I am focused on changing. I used to react to H emotionally, but don't anymore.
Again, thanks for the support and you hang in there.
You are doing great Susan. If the M ends up in divorce, think of it as unraveling a business partnership - take the emotion out. And remember, divorce proceedings can go as quickly or slowly as you want - just advise your lawyer. Hopefully you won't get to that point and your H will feel drawn to the kinder, softer, less dramatic you. Are we twins btw?
Susan,
I am not actually legally married but it makes no difference. We always considered ourselves as married couple.
Here is my thread if you're interested.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2049306#Post2049306
After all, H is a logical engineer and I am not sure I can be logical enough to change his mind! Plus, part of our problems are lack of a physical R
Where is the logic in that?
H says he needs and wants that.
He feels invisible to you.
How come he doesn't know it? It's a hunger he has that is very powerful, the problem with hunger is that it appears numerous times throughout everyday.
He wants to feel loved, wanted and desired by his woman. Stop calling him logical. He is a man first, engineer second.
He wants to feel loved, wanted and desired by his woman. Stop calling him logical. He is a man first, engineer second.
This is very true. We'd had a SSM for a long, long time. It was not all my fault but blame was dumped on me - just as our bad R was dumped on me. I acknowledged my role in these things, validated H's actions, agreed I didn't want to continue the old R, and after he had softened a big - for ex he didn't pull away if I touched his shoulder) - I intiated sx. The first couple times it was all about him. I can now say it has become very mutual. It was a turning point for H I believe.
Though we both felt unloved, unwanted, unappreciated, my self esteem is much better than his so it affected me differently. I owned my issues and have tried to correct them and I'm seeing results. H was not able/willing to make any changes and went to a lawyer out of a desperate need to stop hurting. I get that.
Hi Coach,
Thanks for the 2x4.My head is getting sore from all of the knocks. You'd think I'd get it.
Okay..H is a man first, engineer second. We didn't discuss the lack of phy. R much at all. We just swept topic under the rug. Maybe H was /is getting phy needs met elsewhere, I don't know.
H told me when he dropped the bomb that I just didn't want any part of phy R..I didn't correct him, as was trying NOT to fight what he said.
How (or should) I let him know I have the hunger too? Is it not wise to go that route? May seem like manipulation.
Okay, I was being illogical. As I stated, H is logical, I struggle with being logical. It's not as much FUN being logical as being illogical. Again, the 2x4 up side the head.
Thanks Coach.
Actions speak louder than words.
Hi LRT Land,
That's great it worked out for you, the sx broke the ice.
Might work for me, but not sure how to approach it or if I should.H may see as manipulation. H side steps so he stays far far away from me as possible when we are in the same room. I guess I am still a toxic bomb to him. lol
Thanks for the help. Have a great day~
Hi LRT Land,
Thanks for the encouragement.I need it!
Unraveling a business partership is a great way to look at things.Not emotional, but taking care of business.I like that a lot. Will help me, thanks.
Neither H or I have a lawyer yet. A few meetings ago, H mentioned seeing only one L to save $$$$. I am not sure I am comfortable with that. My goal is to never get to that stage.
Hopefully, H WILL start feeling drawn to the softer, kinder me. Coach mentioned in a post that H feels invisible to me. I haven't looked at all this from that perspective. How sad all these R troubles are....
Take care~~~
Hi LRT Land,
Okay..IF I do an action regarding phy contact, how should I handle it???
Geez, you'd think a 55 yr old woman would know..lol
Thx
Susan - once he realizes you aren't going to fight with him, that you've told him you don't want to hurt him anymore (it seems to be helpful to say this) and you continue to be kind - that's the first step. Second, compliment him or his appearance. When you feel the tension ease, take it a step further - touch his arm, shoulder, head. Then, sit by him while he's watching tv or in bed or whatever feels easiest for you (for me it was TV - my H loves TV). I didn't talk about what I was going to do, I basically just laid down next to him on the couch and grabbed the goods!
I wouldn't worry about him thinking you are being manipulative. I suspect he is feeling very unloved and hurt at this point, and by showing him physical attention you will get a reaction. I don't think these guys (sorry guys for the generalization) think about it past the physical release. But if you get that, then you get closer to what emotional things they can offer you, and then it becomes a win-win.
Hope that helps.
I don't think these guys (sorry guys for the generalization) think about it past the physical release.
A man doesn't need a woman then. Don't be naive.
coach - I don't think anyone has ever called me naive. You obviously didn't understand my intent.
Hi LRT Land,
I would be quite nervous doing as you suggested.In my case, I believe H would be suspicious.I know I would be- after after almost 4 months of no phy contact, all of a sudden I try to "warm" up to H. I feel at this point H would reject me.
I need to analyze this..
I appreciate the advice!!
Hi Coach...
Saw your post to LRT.
Guess the comments all three of us are making show the drastic difference between how men/women think of phy side of R.
I think doing what LRT suggested is an attempt for us to break the ice , to show we still care about H and showing we still wish to be close. But in my case doing that may cause a bigger divide.I just don't know.......
I believe we were going on 6 or 7 mos of no sx or contact. Separate bedrooms. Complete detachment.
Susan - as long as you are sincere, it will be well-received. Put on your "sxy hat" and remember that you are a woman first and a W/employee/etc second. Change your dress - change your hair - wear perfume - do things differently.
I'm only 10 yrs behind you in age and I couldn't have imagined doing any of this, until I realized I really needed to know if my M could work.
H told me when he dropped the bomb that I just didn't want any part of phy R..I
You validate his feelings. Then you let him know that he doesn't know what you think/feel/believe (mind reading.)
"I can understand how you could see it that way. Please don't tell me what I am thinking about our M by saying I don't want a physical R. What I really think about our R is___________________."
For a so-called logical man he sure does use his feelings a lot?
The pain of staying outweighs the pain of leaving. Stop his feelings of pain. Create some emotional connection. Flirt with him, be mysterious, let him come to you.
Hi LRT Land,
Your path sounds like it has been a hard one. I really admire your strength. I am hoping things work out for you as you want them do.
The separate bedroom thing lasted one night here.I couldn't sleep in the guest room.Advised H if he wanted to move in there, go ahead, but I couldn't sleep there, that I needed to be in my comfort zone as much as possible. We are still sleeping in same bed.But no contact of course.I want to have some phy contact, but making the first move sure is scary- if I make an attempt, and H rejects me, I'd feel pretty awful and stupid then. I don't wish to do anything manipulative. I'd only try to get phy with H if I thought it would let him know that side of me isn't dead as he told me it was, that I still desire him, etcetc....
Okay, I will see if I can initiate something phy.
Trying to get phy might backfire though, so I had best be prepared for that.H may get angry.
I have a coaching session on Monday, I may run this all by Laurie first.
I am wearing my hair differently...I make sure I am perfumed and wearing nice clothes every day.I wear makeup every day, and try to look my best. I do this for myself, as well as H.
Take care, my friend~
Hi Coach,
Okay, I will do as you suggest!!!!!
Well, H used his feelings when describing how we are dead as a couple, I am dead sexually, etc. Your point about H's feelings is well taken.
I will let you know what happens..I like your suggestion of flirting.I will try THAT tonight.
Thanks
If the flirting thing works for you that's great. My H would not have gotten it. He needs a 2x4. You should do whatever feels comfortable and that will come across as sincere. Maybe start with the flirtation and graduate to a more direct approach if that is not getting a reaction.
And remember in DR, the book talks about testing the waters and if you get a negative response then retreat and give it more time.
Trying to respond to everything you posted since yesterday. On advice of a friend I'll take a risk to be more detailed and hope he doesn't find it this time.
So..you are leaving before the drop dead date? I am thinking of doing this myself. Being in La La Limboland is too hard. Some may say I might be not letting enough time go by to see if DB can work to stop the split, but signs are H won't change his mind. Yes, there have been a few good signs, but I do believe today, the die has been cast. After all, H is a logical engineer and I am not sure I can be logical enough to change his mind! Plus, part of our problems are lack of a physical R and H says I am post menopausal and not interested in that.H says he needs and wants that. It's not true I don't. How can a W wish to be close to her H when she feels she doesn't like her or love her? H doesn't get that part.
Some people think that the LBS leaving actually can spark a change. I don't know. But yes, I have to leave before then b/c if I wait til that date, I can't live here anymore. Long story. And apartments in my price range close to H's house are very hard to find so I found one and put a deposit down. Am scared out of my mind about it. I never wanted this.
Wow, you and I are very similar. Have you read the actual Sex Starved Marriage book? It was very enlightening to me- I am LD too (at least that's how H perceives me). Check out my friend Alice's post here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2005954&page=1 .
I will tell you that after it seemed totally hopeless, she had sex with her H again, many times, after this. It was kind of a fluke at first, but she tried dressing up and going out (w/out him), which piqued his interest, went to some sex toy parties and let him know she bought stuff, appeared in her lingerie one morning that she'd slept in (used to sleep in sweats and bought some prettier, sexier stuff to sleep in and just let him notice - e.g., this stuff was all for her but could benefit him too, she hinted, but didn't say. And it made her feel more attractive too). Eventually he made some comments and she let him know she was interested in sex with NO expectations from him about the R. Pursuaded him that she had "needs" too, which he didn't believe at first, but he had felt so rejected and unloved that eventually he didn't question it anymore, just did it. If she can bring him back to bed, so can you. It seemed impossible at the time. They're in limbo now too, but that was a step that didn't seem like it would ever work. She had fears about him thinking she was manipulative too, but it didn't end up meaning much after awhile.
I may see if I can move up my surgery date. If so, I can be out when I decide to be out. Not really comfortable with having H dictate how all should progress.
That could be a good idea unless there's another reason to wait? If you need time to find a place to live, tell him you're keeping the Nov date, having surgery early, and when recouperated, going apartment hunting and will leave earlier than Nov if you can.
Personally, I really am uncomfortable being an invisible W.H told me we are separated right now. I am starting to feel as if I need to move on. I think maybe you and I will feel stronger if we leave at a date of our choosing. Do you feel that way, NB??
Somewhat, yes. And my H is going out, I don't know what he's doing or who he's with but he considers us separated in a lot of ways too, so he'd probably think it wasn't cheating to hook up with someone now, whereas I cannot live with him anymore if he does that. So I'm scared to make the move, but think I will do it- yes on my own schedule. Partly b/c of apt availability here and partly b/c it's getting harder to live with him and his passive-aggressiveness.
Btw on the L- please go consult some on your own now. Most charge either a nominal fee or nothing for 30-60 min. Make sure you've got all your tax returns, financial records, etc (ask them what you should bring). You do not need to tell H you're doing this- but you do need to protect yourself. He might've done it already and not told you. I would not use the same L unless you think mediation is going to work for you but even then, you need your own L to run the final agreement by before you sign anything. This is becoming a business deal, remember? You'd never agree to divide up a corporation by using the same L or not consulting someone who only has YOUR interests in mind.
Hi LRT Land,
Yes, you are right.DB does suggest testing the waters.I haven't done any of that, but will start tonight.I don't have anything to "lose" by testing...
Thanks for the help!!
Hi NB,
How is today going for you?
It appears your H found your DB blog, thus your caution.I understand that.I am careful to shut my PC down after using, ( I put a password on it, H cannot get into my email, etc), I lock all my books, journal, notes, etc in my file cabinet.
I think it's good you found an apt near your current home and in a price range that's good too. Those are hard to come by.I have driven by a few apts. Saw one I could absolutely live in..has a garage too.
It might be true , the LBS 's leaving may indeed trigger a wake up call in WAH. With that said, you are right, it's all scary and moving out when it is not what we want, just doesn't feel right. I think it's a healthy step, but only we can know if it is time.
Yes, there are many things in your M and mine that are the same... Seems amazing to me any of us can have sx less marriages. After all, when we are first dating, things are crazy good in that area. As my H said, we LET everything die.
I will check out Alice's post for sure.I like what she did! I will try a few things.
The only reason to move up my surgery date is to shorten the time spent in Limbo Land. Being in this house like this is hard. It feels like a prison. I can "do the hard work" and stay until my move out date, but I am questioning whether it's good for my health.
I don't think the WAH or any WAW should engage in sx with another until their spouse has moved out of the home. Even then, I believe people need a year to get their heads back on straight.In my way of thinking it just adds one more complication to an already difficult situation.
If my H did become phy involved with someone, I truly think I might stop trying to save M. I don't know for sure- these days, there aren't any absolutes for me in some areas.
Thanks for the L info.I was already planning on doing that. Unless I dig through H's files, I will have to ask him for copies of all tax papers, etc. I won't tell him why I need them, but am sure he will know. Yes, this is a business deal. No, I am a careful person, so I wouldn't wish to use only one L. H has said he feels we won't wish to "screw " each other financially. I don't want to be naive and fully trust H.
Take care of yourself, NB.
Hi Coach,
Well, I tried flirting. While we were speaking and H was doing a mild teasing about something I said, I touched H's chest. H seemed a bit taken aback.
Later after H returned from a meeting in the evening, I was dressed in a skimpy nightgown. I had a candle burning in bedroom...H saw me, the candle and left the room, after we talked about his meeting. I approached him in the living room, said how about if you come into bedroom and watch the movie with me? H said no,but I'll turn it on in here for us. So, we watched the rest of the movie...and then I went to sleep.
I am getting frustrated with the DB and 180 and all that, but I know it's the right way to approach this. I may speak openly to H in tomorrow's meeting about path to our split. I will just let H know (what you suggested in earlier post), the way I really feel about the phy R .
I realize I need to be patient. Not my best suit.
Have a good day~
Susan - your post sounds discouraged. Don't be. To me, your H is not quite there yet. The candle probably tipped it in the wrong direction. Just act natural. Yes - wear the slinky nightgown - but watch tv where you would always watch tv.
Rather than tell your H in the mtg how you feel about anything, try to do more listening. He doesn't care how you feel right now. He cares about his pain. You can tell him you're sorry you hurt him. You can tell him you're sorry he's hurting and don't want to cause any more pain. You can say a split isn't what you want but you don't want to hurt him anymore.
That's the approach I would take. He's in a silo right now. You need to let it come down. Then he'll start being receptive to you - but that won't happen until he believes you're on his side.
Hi LRT Land,
How are YOU today? How is your sitch?
I am discouraged.I feel myself backsliding and getting angry again too. I am letting myself feel rejected. I need to let that go right now and get back on track.
I know that by doing the DB and 180, I am holding in a lot of emotions. I feel I need to go somewhere away from everyone and just scream!!! You know that is a good idea. Maybe I will rent a cabin in the mountains for a few days and take some long walks and do some screaming in the woods. lol
I agree with your words of advice.I will do that in tomorrows meeting. Should I not say anything about the phy R ? I do want H to know that I still want that in my life.
Thanks for your valuable support.It really helps.
Take care of yourself.
The hardest thing, to me, about DR is that in a strong sense you have to go against your natural instincts.
As for mentioning the phys R, don't be surprised if he says "you're lying." If he does, don't say anymore about it.
Attack and retreat - or something like that.
It's ok to be discouraged - just don't show that at home. Let him see that you are handling it all just fine. Hang in there -
Hi LRT Land,
I agree- I feel the DB and 180 seem sort of "artificial", and it all does go against my natural instincts. My usual and natural instincts are to tell H to go to the warmer clime below, but I was already so full of anger in the M, (caused problems of course), that I do feel a 180 is best for me. I need to be calm, cool and focused.
I know doing the DB and 180, helps me cope and it helps ME look at things about MYSELF I need to change. THAT is always a positive thing no matter what happens. If H is happy "as is" then so be it. It is not my problem.
I may not bring up the phy R issue tomorrow. I agree with you that H may say I am "lying". I don't lie, but if I were H, I'd think it odd that for 3 months I never wanted anything phy and now I make the point I do. A physical hunger just gets buried under all the anger. It is still there nonetheless.
Thanks and take care
Hi LRT Land,
I decided during H's and I's meeting this morning, I am done trying to change myself so H changes his mind. I finally am resolved the M is over.I will
continue the changes for myself, and only for myself.
H is so cut and dried, and cold- acts like the whole M meant nothing. Anyway, I cannot keep "trying" when all indications are H is done. The logical engineer in H showed in an ugly form this morning. H said once I am out, I will need to call before I visit my pet. Basically implied he will have someone at the house. That is, of course going to happen (dating for H as soon as he can do it, not high on my list), but how about NOT rubbing my nose in it.
I need to retain my self respect and I won't be doing any more to try to convince H through my "positive actions" that he's making a mistake ending M. H wants OUT of the M, so that is what he will get. H's mind is set and that is that.
I still have two phone coaching sessions, but will use these for helping myself cope.
Hang in there, I hope all works out for you and your H!
Take care
. H said once I am out, I will need to call before I visit my pet. Basically implied he will have someone at the house. That is, of course going to happen (dating for H as soon as he can do it, not high on my list), but how about NOT rubbing my nose in it.
So how did you arrive at that conclusion?
Mind-reading is counterproductive and unattractive. Your H is not attracted to you, do you understand why? He feels like you don't want him, his positive emotions are turned off towards you.
Google Martin Seligman and Learned Optimism. You have a pessimistic style of thinking. How you think causes you to feel defeated. Change your thinking and you change your feelings. Whether you you save your M or not your next relationship will follow the same dynamics until you become aware of how you "see" the world. I promise Seligman will help you if you do the work.
Cheers
Hi Coach,
I arrived at that conclusion because H and I have a sx less M. H stated he needs that in his life, in order to be happy, his words. So, I assumed, because I am hurting, he'd have other women here, asap. I based that on his past, that is what H does. H replaces women quickly, easily.
I realize it's none of my business what H does after I leave, and is counterproductive to think along those lines. Things are just very raw for me. It hasn't been a month since the bomb dropped. I am still adjusting.
You are right, I know I am a pessimist. I realize that and I am working on making changes. Obviously I am far from there yet. I will Google Seligman.
When H said all he said, I took at face value, H meant it. I have lived with H for almost 15 years, he carefully picks his words and only says what he means. I don't always mean what I say. Another thing I need to change.
H doesn't think I want him? I told him this morning splitting up is not what I want. H stated there is NO hope we can stay a couple. Why shouldn't I believe him.
Most likely the subtle nuances of this roller coaster ride are passing me by.I am struggling with the DB/180, as I feel it is giving me a false sense of hope.
I told H I was sorry I hurt him and didn't wish to hurt him anymore.
I know, all new relationships will fail if we don't do an autopsy on why the last one failed.
Thanks for the advice.
I'd have to agree with the Martin Seligman learned optimisim as being a very good read. This with a few others I've came accross, as they might not help me with my stich but my friends and coworkers all have noticed the changes I've been able to apply because of the insight I've gained from changing my views and attitude on a lot of things in life.
I will look into that.I need it.
Glad it's working for you!
Hi LRT Land,
What should my answer be when H asks me out to dinner?
One mimute it's "we will be getting a leg sep, M is over", and the next it's "would you like to out for an early dinner". I had already eaten so I thanked H and said no. H looked "sad", and surprised. An hour later when I walked into living room freshly showered, with make up on and nicely dressed, H looked "shocked".
You engineers out there- do you ever really say one thing, and mean another?It hasn't been my experience with my H.
I am confused~
Most likely the subtle nuances of this roller coaster ride are passing me by.I am struggling with the DB/180, as I feel it is giving me a false sense of hope.
Hi Susan!
If you feel this way then you are doing it wrong. Your 180's are for YOU not him. YOU have to be doing them for you and YOU only. I understand what you are saying about "false hope" and it's okay to do this with the expectations that it will save your marriage, BUT you do the 180's because of you first...marriage is your byproduct.
Do you understand what I'm saying?
As far as your last post goes...you are mind reading. I'm not an expert, but mind reading makes me insane. YOU can't focus on his thoughts, okay? You are going to, but stop yourself and ask what do "I WANT".
Hi FaithnAK,
You are right.I am mindreading..I need to detach.
I thought the purpose of DB /180 is to change the negative so we get our spouses back??!! lol
I am in this for ME now.
Thanks for the 2x4.
Trust me. I just got the hang of this a few days ago and I still screw up.
Please be truthful to YOURSELF. Identify what made the marriage go wrong on your part(NOT His), fix what you need to be happy with YOURSELF about that. You can't do his part, but you for you can. Once YOU are happy... then everything else will fall in place whether marriage ends or begins anew or you move on. This is NOT what anyone wants to hear, but it's truth.
2x4's are good, but they are only to make YOU think clearly and rationally about YOUR reality.
Have you read?
http://www.livestrong.com/article/14712-developing-detachment/Somebody told me to read it every day...I didn't at first, but it works...now I read it daily
Hi FaithnAK,
You are right. I can only own MY part of the M screw up, which I do.I own it, I analyze it, I am learning from it.
The painful part of this whole M mess is that I still think it's fixable, H doesn't.
Yes, I have read the detaching info.I printed it out and I read it several times a day. Very good advice, hard to do without slipping up and regressing here and there. It's nose to grindstone time.
Thanks~ keep hanging in there.
Susan,
I know others have said not to think this way, but remember, your husband is a man first, an engineer second. Trust me on this. No matter what, he thinks with the little guy first, and the sliderule second. When he sees you walk out all dolled up looking good, he's curious as hell. Shocked as you say.
I know holding on to hope is hard, but stranger things have happened. Do the things for you, keep a small amount of hope, and don't slam the door. You never know what might happen.
These forums are full of some of the saddest, heartbreaking stories I've ever read, but also full of personal redemption, and sometimes even love and reconciliation.
Susan,
I know holding on to hope is hard, but stranger things have happened. Do the things for you, keep a small amount of hope, and don't slam the door. You never know what might happen.
Yes. Don't slam the door. Hope is in everyone of us, just put you first.
Hi Pinhead,
I know you are right, but it is painful being in this house, waiting and watching and hoping.
I hope the "little guy" makes a move ..lol. I think IF that were to happen, maybe, just maybe, things might turn around. I keep thinking about physically going after my H, but I am afraid to-I couldn't take the rejection.
I will continue to make keep myself looking good, ( H always used to say "if you weren't so cute I would have killed you long ago" lol), and hope things work out.
The problem is that being here is getting way too hard.I find myself avoiding H.
I agree-reading some of the stories is difficult. So much pain- I hate knowing people are suffering. I think WHY can't we just FIX it??!!!
Thanks as always~
Hi FaithnAK,
I agree with you and Pinhead. I am putting myself first.
Slamming the door is to admit defeat. But having HOPE is getting harder every day. As I said, the days H and I have our meetings, is the low point for me. Everything hits home and the harshness of reality of the future sinks in.I keep imagining myself moving out and living in a small apt, when I have been used to a large home and property. I need to reconcile within myself it's all about being happy first and foremost.
Thanks again!!! YOU hang in there too~~~~
Hi NB,
It appears your H found your DB blog, thus your caution.I understand that.I am careful to shut my PC down after using, ( I put a password on it, H cannot get into my email, etc), I lock all my books, journal, notes, etc in my file cabinet.
Bingo. And I've been unable to post for myself here since April. It was really hard, but the alt helps. Be aware though, that's not how he found me- he paid attention to when I was doing all my furious typing every night and googled things like "divorce prevention" and stumbled on the site. Since threads get bumped up in the queue right after someone posts, he figured out which could be mine, then, as I'd copied many emails from him verbatim, he recognized his own words. So, it's not always enough to protect your computer and p/w.
It might be true , the LBS 's leaving may indeed trigger a wake up call in WAH. With that said, you are right, it's all scary and moving out when it is not what we want, just doesn't feel right. I think it's a healthy step, but only we can know if it is time.
I don't ever think I'll feel it's the right time or I'm ready. I just have to get as close as I can and then... leap.
Yes, there are many things in your M and mine that are the same... Seems amazing to me any of us can have sx less marriages. After all, when we are first dating, things are crazy good in that area. As my H said, we LET everything die.
I will check out Alice's post for sure.I like what she did! I will try a few things.
The only reason to move up my surgery date is to shorten the time spent in Limbo Land. Being in this house like this is hard. It feels like a prison. I can "do the hard work" and stay until my move out date, but I am questioning whether it's good for my health.
It is taxing my mental health and spiritual strength for sure. so, this is legitimate- pay attention to it and how it's affecting you. A lot of people DB from separate residences and claim it can still have an effect- and remember it's for you
Thanks for the L info.I was already planning on doing that. Unless I dig through H's files, I will have to ask him for copies of all tax papers, etc. I won't tell him why I need them, but am sure he will know. Yes, this is a business deal. No, I am a careful person, so I wouldn't wish to use only one L.
Dig through the files and make copies of everything before he moves them. Seriously. Women, listen up- you all need to know what's going on with your finances and $ records- if you haven't been, get your own copies NOW, before they're no longer accessible!
H has said he feels we won't wish to "screw " each other financially. I don't want to be naive and fully trust H.
Yes, please don't. Mine made noises for weeks about how he wanted us to be "collaborative" and "cooperative" while being the worst passive-aggressive I've ever seen, writing subtly threatening emails (that were certainly not cooperative), etc. Remember an alien has possessed him and you can't trust anything or assume anything based on what he used to be like. I've seen too many times here someone acts based on the person they thought their spouse to be, only to get totally screwed. And I think it's funny b/c it sounds like it's his house and he's supporting YOU. So how, exactly would it be a "we" thing to mutually screw each other? Honey, he is projecting on you and is afraid you'll try for half of everything and doesn't want that to interfere with his new, better life without you. It sounds really nice, but watch out (sounds like you are already being cautious- but seriously, get those copies when he's not around).
Susan- just wanted to drop in and say hi. Did you read my thing that Nikita linked to? Can't say it worked miracles, but I learned that more was possible than I thought. Hang in there, you're getting the hang of this!
-A
Hi Alice444,
Yes, I did and you really took the bull by the horns. lol.I am impressed!
I tried the sexy lingerie the other night- lit a candle, was in bed reading when H arrived home from a meeting. H came into the room and looked at me, but clearly wasn't interested.I tried, (I was too obvious, I know.NB said candle was too much, she's right), to get him to watch TV in bed, but he said no, he'd watch with me in living room.
Tonight I wore sexy lingerie, sat in living room reading and H came into room.I noticed he looked at me, but that is all.
H walks a wide berth around me-acts like I am toxic,and that if he accidently brushed against me, he'd melt or something. lol
I'll keep trying...for now
Thanks Alice..
Hi NB,
Sorry your H read some of your posts.
You are right, a password isn't enough. I am spending alot of time on PC. I am sure H notices.
I too, won't ever feel right about moving- we just need to be strong.
So true..our mental and physical health suffers during a crisis like this.I feel so tired all the time now.
No worries..I will get the files copied! I am being very very careful with any financial issues.I won't be agreeable to anything I feel is unfair.I can tell H resents he has to give me money, sarcasm creeps in sometimes.
Take care of yourself!!!
Susan - it sounds like you are getting a reaction, maybe not the one you were hoping for, but it's good that he's noticing.
I agree with others that H is a man first and engineer second. Keep being nice, dressing sexy and behaving how you would like to be in a happy R. You will make in roads. Too little too late (as my H was fond of saying)? You can't control your H, but you can put your best self forward and know, whichever fork in the road you end up taking, you did your best.
As for the movie, DR says accepts some invitations but not all, so I think you are doing fine. Maybe you could invite him now to one of his favorite places? I think that was the night my H and I first had sx. We went to his favorite italian restaurant and I plied him with sangria.
Hi LRT Land,
Yes, H is a man first. A very self controlled and unemotional one. he's hurting, I know that. This isn't all about me, I also know that.
We talked this morning about things. Didn't discuss our R, but talked about Alpha dog issues. I cried a bit, I am overtired as I never slept last night. H said he cries too, just not where anyone can see.
Your suggestion about inviting H to his favorite place sounds good. I'll try that.
Thanks~~~
Take good care~~~~
Susan- you usually post a lot more- is everything ok?
No, things are going as H planned. H told me yesterday he was thinking if there was any other way out of this M mess, but he still felt that legally separating is best plan.H said too many hurts and he cannot remember any good times. I said a few things, which I shouldn't have, fell into R talk trap. I said maybe a new M is possible. Made H mad.
H has drafted a legal separation agreement. H will take it to a lawyer. He said that I should take it to a lawyer first, but I told him since he initiated the separation, he should have a lawyer review first.
I knew it was coming, but it's very very sad. I had hoped H would change his mind.
I have to be out of H's home no later than Dec 1st, 2010.
I am trying to cope. it's very hard.
My W talked about a legal S once. I filled for D instead. Now she is talking legal S again. If I am not mistaken, a legal S is less than a full D. So now what I hated to hear ( a legal S) sounds pretty good. I'm not backing down. I've told W that my L is trying to speed up the D so she can be on her way. She looked concerned. But that is just mind reading. If your going to let them go then do it with a bang.
No more R talks. Help them with what they want...to get out. Even if it's not what you want it's the only way that has a chance of success.
Hi Chuck66,
I like your spunk! Sounds like you are coping well, good for you!
Yes, a legal sep is less than a divorce, but it's a pathway to the big D. Makes it all easier if one spouse decides down the road to pursue D. My H is doing leg sep so I can stay on his insurance, (his idea, not mine, H said we could do the D if I "want"), as I recently lost my job in April. A leg sep splits all assets, just like a D, but still married.
I agree, enough is enough. If they want out of the M, so be it. It seems to be the only way for them to fully understand what they want.
60% of WAS's regret their decisions, did you know that? My DB coach told me that. Amazing...
H owns the house to I will be the one "getting out". The get out date is Dec 1.
I'm coping ok. I can fake it when I'm not.
There is nothing to stop your H from filing. I did not like that feeling of always wanting to know when a sheriff was going to knock at my door and hand me papers.
I took back control when I filed.
Just because your H suggested it doesn't mean it's right for you. Go get a job and get your own insurance. You are going to need both no matter what happens to the M.
A legal S is half in and half out. Sounds too much like limbo to me. It's different for each of us. I needed for my spouse to take a crap or get off the pot. You can only live in limbo land for so long and my tolerance was only 4 weeks!!! Some do it for years. No way for me.
It's not the % that is important about WAS' regretting their decision. It's more important when they regret it. If they regretted it soon enough we wouldn't be in this sitch. I think most regret it far too late and too much water has passed under the bridge.
Plan early and plan often for the 1 Dec date. Any job is better than no job.
I wish you all the luck in the world!
Coping okay and faking it is good enough for now.
I know, H could file for a D at any time, and so could I during leg sep. There is somewhat of a limbo sitch in a leg sep, but maybe, in my case, that's what H and I need. I don't have that answer. If I did, I'd hire myself out as a counselor.
I feel all will be more clear once I don't see H on a daily basis anymore.
After I see a lawyer and discuss the leg sep doc with her, I may change course regarding what is pursued. I don't know and I am not making any hasty decisions. H may be wishing to stay leg married for tax purposes or for some other reason that I don't yet know about.H told me it was because I don't have a job/med insurance. I don't know what the truth is and until I take the final doc to my lawyer, I won't know what the "real" deal is.
You are right, if the WAS's could "regret" sooner before lives were broken apart, then we all wouldn't be here!
But we are and we will be okay, no matter what.
Take your time with the legal stuff. Someone one here had only 5 minutes to decide something legal then regretted his decision. That doesn't sound right. Go slow and know what you want to do. Heck tell them you want to take a day or two to think about any documents.
Maybe that's why my wife wants a legal S, because the D was going to take until Jan and she doesn't like living like this.
Who does?
Maybe your W got cold feet about a D-a leg sep is just rescinded if couple wants to get back together. I don't know WTH the differences mean to a WAS.
I absolutely will take my time as whatever I agree to in the leg sep, holds if we progress to D. That's awful for the person on this site who made a hasty legal decision.
H may want the door left open since his first wife filed a D after he moved out to "figure out what he wanted". Only he knows. I know I want the pain to stop.
Yep, tremendous gut wrenching crap.
Hang in there~
Definitely don't let him rush you into anything. He has to respect it when you say "I need some time to think about this and talk it over with my lawyer." Delay can only work in your favor.
Did you determine if he's having an A? Because that changes everything. Do you think he wants the sep to go live some wild single life? I'm hoping this isn't a MLC for him as from what I've read those can take years to resolve, but have you read any of those threads on that forum?
I think the difference between a D and a legal S is the amount of time it takes to get it done. The legal S can happen sooner and then out the door they go. It's for legal reasons only that we are still in the same home.
Oh, H isn't. We both agree limbo land isn't healthy.I already told him I need time. How much do I need in reality? H is done.Is only a matter of getting the leg sep document written up and signed. Why delay, no point in it. H is done and there isn't anything I can do to change it.I let go.
I will be moving out Dec 1st. No reason to delay it.We will see L's soon and once get the sep doc signed, I have surgery and heal, then out I go.If H changes his mind, he could do that. We discussed that this morning. Highly unlikely he would change his mind.
A leg sep is not what I wanted to happen, but I have to RESPECT H is done. H said it would hurt more to stay in this unhappy M than the pain splitting up causes. Someone else on this site said "let go with love". This is what I plan to do. I may not be able to be "loving" all the time through the next very difficult 3-4 months, but I will give it my all to do that. It's better for ME if I let go with some dignity. I will feel better for having done that.
I do not believe there is an affair. Makes no difference if there was, done is done. H said 14 years of pain needs to end. H told me it was hard to say it was over- I believe him because we almost ended it 3 times before. I was able to talk him out of splitting before, not this time. H's decision isn't based on an affair or a whim.
It's useless to fight a WAS's wishes once they are mentally done.
Hope things are okay with you.
You are right. Once the leg things are handled we are free to go on our way, yet still are legally M. Since this is a second M for both of us, doubtful we'd ever wish to remarry, so this type of agreement works for us.
My H said he is doing leg sep vs D so I can stay on his med insurance. Plus there are tax benefits if we jointly file income tax etc.My L will tell me the whole story.
No matter how we slice it, done is done.
I forgot to add- MLC is not it.H is 62...he wants to find some happiness before he dies. Nothing wrong with that.
Hi NB,
How are things going with you? Have you moved out yet?
Please let me know how you are...
I stayed two nights at my brother's this week. Monday, I told H I was going away for a few days. I did not tell H were I was going. (Sunday H said I should go to a retreat to "get my head" wrapped about things, that I was in denial M is dead, which I had been. I didn't leave for the two days because H suggested it. I left for ME. H asked for an emergency number, said "shouldn't we talk before you leave, let me know where are you going, so I don't worry". I said you can call my cell if emergency arises. I had my bag packed when he came into the house after his walk. H looked surprised.
I felt better being away from H and his "all business persona". Not being at "home", I didn't have to look at all that is/was near and dear.I am getting less and less "emotional" and more businesslike about the stuff /things in H's house. I consider this 100% H's house now. The cold way he acts is off putting and I will never let him see me upset.
H told me when I arrived back home today, nothing has changed, leg sep still on. I told him I wouldn't choose a leg sep, but he has, so let's get it done!!
I will be moving in with my brother before December 1st, which is my "vacate" H's home date.
H and I see a lawyer on Wednesday for a free consult re: leg sep. H is saying we might be able to use one lawyer( H wants all handled as cheaply as poss!!!), if we are agreeable with all included in leg sep doc. I told H I am not sure about that, but that getting a few questions answered in a free consult is okay for now.
The fast time frame is a concern for me, but H insists it's the "limboland " issue that drives that.
For me, it helped me stabilize my emotions by staying with my brother for a few days. It was a "sneak peek" into how it will be when H and I actually part ways for good.
Take care, pls post!
Hi NB,
How are things going with you? Have you moved out yet?
Please let me know how you are...
Hi Susan- I'm doing ok. I'll post an update today on my thread (link below) and that's the best place to check up on me- this space is for YOU (but it's really nice of you to ask)
.
No, earliest move out would be mid-Sept but I'll probably do it in stages as I buy furniture etc. I don't even have a bed for me or D yet, so we won't go right away.
I stayed two nights at my brother's this week. Monday, I told H I was going away for a few days. I did not tell H were I was going. (Sunday H said I should go to a retreat to "get my head" wrapped about things, that I was in denial M is dead, which I had been. I didn't leave for the two days because H suggested it. I left for ME. H asked for an emergency number, said "shouldn't we talk before you leave, let me know where are you going, so I don't worry". I said you can call my cell if emergency arises. I had my bag packed when he came into the house after his walk. H looked surprised.
I felt better being away from H and his "all business persona". Not being at "home", I didn't have to look at all that is/was near and dear.I am getting less and less "emotional" and more businesslike about the stuff /things in H's house. I consider this 100% H's house now. The cold way he acts is off putting and I will never let him see me upset.
I'm glad you got an emotional break and change of scenery. It's funny that we've got these big fears about separating (which are legitimate), but also end up appreciating how it feels to spend time away from them given how they're treating us now, right? I file those thoughts and feelings away to remind myself that the future isn't all bad- it will be a relief in some ways to not be under the same roof.
H told me when I arrived back home today, nothing has changed, leg sep still on. I told him I wouldn't choose a leg sep, but he has, so let's get it done!!
I will be moving in with my brother before December 1st, which is my "vacate" H's home date.
H and I see a lawyer on Wednesday for a free consult re: leg sep. H is saying we might be able to use one lawyer( H wants all handled as cheaply as poss!!!), if we are agreeable with all included in leg sep doc. I told H I am not sure about that, but that getting a few questions answered in a free consult is okay for now.
The fast time frame is a concern for me, but H insists it's the "limboland " issue that drives that.
This can't go any faster than you want it to, b/c he needs you to participate. If it's going too fast then tell him look, I need time to consult my own L and get this surgery behind me. Yes, I'm still moving out and yes we're proceeding with D, but I have other priorities I need to deal with so we'll get to the paperwork when both of us have the time and all the info we need.
You MUST see an L by yourself, the sooner the better. Can you call a few this week to set up consultations? It's often free or cheap. Only use a mediator/1 L if you are 100% sure you know your rights, etc. Even then, please still consult your own L before signing anything to make sure you're getting what is due to you, etc.
So when are you moving in with your brother? How long can you stay with him?
Hi NB,
So good to hear from you. I am glad you are okay.
Taking your time so you can get a few furniture items here and there is a good plan. Slow but steady. Will help keep your stress level down.
The emotional break was good for me. My brother and his darling pugs made me laugh.I am going to a pool party with my brother and his girlfriend this Thursday, should be FUN.
I agree- there is the fear of leaving , but there is also a sense of relief when we are apart from our H's too. A stranger has taken over their body, and it feels better not being around them.
The future most likely won't be "bad" for us. It will be different for awhile until we settle into our new routines and deal with the emotional losses.
Are you working? I think that is my biggest fear. Can I find a good job and make enough to support myself as I did before I was laid off.
I will absolutely see my own L. I will NOT sign anything until she reviews. The meeting tomorrow is a free consult H set up. We both can ask questions. H is aware my L ( I haven't hired her yet, but I will, not a worry), will review any and all docs. I am taking my time. I already told H that I am hoping to be healed well enough to leave early November, however, moving involves lifting and I will not jeopardize my new bionic hip, by leaving too soon. When we discussed the leg sep time frame, H admitted if I am still here end of Dec his darling daughter cannot stay here.So there you have it- truth of H's time line.
I am happily going about my business every day. H and I don't go anywhere together.He leaves and returns, no questions asked. H does ask me some questions about my appointments, etc. I am always vague.
I am keeping busy. I am getting moving van quotes, storage unit quotes, arranging staying with my brother as long as I need to, no time limit there. I am sending my resume out, making lists of everything I wish to take.
As I have stated on these boards, I get it, my M is over. But if need be I will say this to H and his L, " I do not like where this is going. I need time to think about this".
Hang in there. I'm looking forward to reading more of your posts.
Be well ~
NB,
Today is lawyer day.H is wanting to keep everything all warm and fuzzy- and said this morning since I agreed to leg sep it means I AGREE with it (like it was both our ideas) and his guilt alleviates somewhat. My reply was-
I do not agree with leg sep, however the M is dead and you have stated you want out, I want you to be happy, so let's get it done.
I'll post more after the meeting.
NB and anyone else, if you have any advise for a sitch like mine (WAH pushing a leg sep) pls write me.
Thanks and Take Care~
NB,
Today is lawyer day.H is wanting to keep everything all warm and fuzzy- and said this morning since I agreed to leg sep it means I AGREE with it (like it was both our ideas) and his guilt alleviates somewhat. My reply was-
I do not agree with leg sep, however the M is dead and you have stated you want out, I want you to be happy, so let's get it done.
S- how did it go? When do you have an appt. with your own L scheduled?
I'll post more after the meeting.
NB and anyone else, if you have any advise for a sitch like mine (WAH pushing a leg sep) pls write me.
Thanks and Take Care~
The advice I got when I was still hanging on was to drag it out as long as possible. But starting to do that made him mad. However, telling him fine, I'll go along with it, made him less mad and he still- 6 months later- has not filed anything. Just interesting to note. If you post more on other people's threads- e.g., mine and others who've replied to you, you'll start getting more traffic, and also if you post more regularly like you were doing before. I can't type too much these days but am reading along here
.
Hi Susan. Just wanted to stop in your thread and give you a hello. Sorry I haven't contributed more, but you are a sweet person and I wish you the best.
Hi NB,
Hope you are okay.
The lawyer appt went okay, was stressful for me. The lawyer we saw would act as an impartial lawyer. Does not take a side. This is where my own lawyer comes in-she reviews doc and lets me know if all is good for me. Until I have the leg sep document for my lawyer to review I can't make an appt. I will also make an appt with a CPA since H may wish to pay me a lump sum of his pension verses monthly payment. Might not be in MY best interest tax wise. So, for now just putting finishing touches on our asset list and furniture lists.
H has called a meeting for this morning so I need to so what is up with that.
I am keeping busy, doing the DB, GALing,etc.No doubt these are the hardest times I have even gone through.
I'll try to post more on other posts too.~
Thanks~
Hi FaithnAk,
Thanks for the nice comment~
How is your sitch going?
H gave me papers this morning detailing 4 different scenarios for each component of the leg sep doc. H is all business as am I.
I will of course consult the proper experts before I sign anything.The leg doc may take longer to complete than H originally thought. Also court is backed up too.
One thing on H's list, is that he may "insist" I pay rent if I do not leave by the "get out of his home" date. I told him I wish to leave asap, but will not compromise my hip replacement (surgery next month) just because his daughter is coming end of Dec. H's daughter comes first-one of our many problems.
Anyway, daily life is odd for sure.But I know that soon this chapter in my life will be closing and I will have happy times again.
Everyone needs to stay calm, focused and poised at ALL times when discussing legal issues with their WAS.Believe me, they are looking for cracks in our demeanor. I notice my H watches me very closely- he makes it a point to act cold, aloof and nonchalant.
Take care
Hi FaithnAk,
Thanks for the nice comment~
How is your sitch going?
Wish I could say great! But not happening...Slowly getting better sounds more truthful. I fluctuate between angry and not giving a crap. I go 3-4 days without contact with W and then she texts me "Good Morning" or asks "How I'm doing" and "How are the dogs?". Just tiny expressions of her attempts to "care", but without wanting to be around me/see me at all. It's like being in prison and you receive a letter now and then. I'm hoping my feeling of "Not giving a crap" starts taking over more each day. I really grasp the "why" pursue someone when they don't even want to be around you or be a part of your life, I'm just having trouble on deciding if these texts she sends are a form of cake eating. Still struggle with the whole "Neglect" issue if I don't respond. Just overall, still screwed up but recovering. LOL
Anyway, daily life is odd for sure.But I know that soon this chapter in my life will be closing and I will have happy times again.
That's a good attitude and I'm right there with you! Eventually every thing always get better. We just have to take it one day at a time and focus on what makes us happy, right.
Hi FaithnAK,
Slowly getting better is a positive step towards getting 100% better.We have to start at the bottom and work our way out of the emotional hole we find ourselves in. I think you are doing great!
I understand the emotional roller coaster issue.I too, am mad one minute, then sad the next.
The texts from your W- in my layman's opinion, it's just a way of retaining control-to test, to see if you still "'care".
I really believe ( I have seen it with my H) that some of the WAS are so screwed up that they get a kick out of the pain they are causing. Harsh and may be not true in some cases, but in mine it is. If our WAS's "cared" wouldn't we be together to work on the M? I believe alot of the texts and phone calls are driven by guilt. My H wanted me to say to everyone I agreed to leg sep to alleviate his guilt. I told him he owns that guilt.
DB and GAL is still important to do even after the D or in my case, legal sep is filed.We have to project happiness and let them see our lives didn't end with them walking away from the M.
It's one day at at time.My challenges are just beginning. The lawyers and documents and all that is just starting. H is covering all bases for his best interests. The "hatred" shows and it is sad.
You hang in there and do what your gut tells you about the texts from your W. Please don't let your emotions be toyed with. I plan to go dark once I move.
Take care~
Agreed.
Never underestimate the power of guilt to motivate anyone, nevermind the WAS.
Hi FaithnAK,
The texts from your W- in my layman's opinion, it's just a way of retaining control-to test, to see if you still "'care".
I really believe ( I have seen it with my H) that some of the WAS are so screwed up that they get a kick out of the pain they are causing. Harsh and may be not true in some cases, but in mine it is. If our WAS's "cared" wouldn't we be together to work on the M? I believe alot of the texts and phone calls are driven by guilt. My H wanted me to say to everyone I agreed to leg sep to alleviate his guilt. I told him he owns that guilt.
Hiya Susan. I'm glad you are doing such a good job with how you are handling things. I'm no expert or anything, so I'm reluctant to give advice sometimes. Instead, I'll just give you praise and support that you're not alone : )
I agree with the testing, my gut tells me that. My gut also tells me I'm "handling" it correctly, but what my gut doesn't tell me is how to proceed any other way.
When I receive a text from my W first thing in the morning, that's when I know she's genuinely thinking of me...afterwork and it's the "gremlin". She's absolutely in a bad mood after work, so anything at that point is "Do not believe what you are seeing/hearing"
And yes if they "cared" enough they would come back to work on our M's.
Please just continue to vent here. I will try and respond more to support you as best I can.
Hi FaithnAK,
I appreciate that.
I am not one for giving much advice, (too new here), I really just want to pass along what is working for me and share some of my thoughts.
I am coping as best as I can under the circumstances. It is hard to really understand what motivates the WAS. I think you are handling things well.
We just need to nurture ourselves in any way we can, and consider the WAS as a second priority. It's all about US now.
Thanks for being there and just keep doing what works for you.
All the Best~
Agreed.
Different types of guilt.
I found when I dropped the rope, my guilt lessened and I was able to more clearly see H's part as well as mine, in the death of M.
Continued support for your sitch~~~~
Hi FaithnAK,
I appreciate that.
I am not one for giving much advice, (too new here), I really just want to pass along what is working for me and share some of my thoughts.
I am coping as best as I can under the circumstances. It is hard to really understand what motivates the WAS. I think you are handling things well.
We just need to nurture ourselves in any way we can, and consider the WAS as a second priority. It's all about US now.
Thanks for being there and just keep doing what works for you.
All the Best~
Yeah trying to figure out their minds will drive you nuts.
I'm pretty new too, I really value everyone's threads though, some get it and do it, others fight it, and some just are "naturals". I lurk all over the place here. Like Robx said there are many good people here with a lot of experience, "you need to soak up the knowledge like a sponge". No one has the EXACT same sitch, but the knowledge here can apply to ALL.
You are one of the people who gets it, but everyone gets weak with dealing with this crap over and over. You are on the right path, just be the BEST Susan you can be....and when you can't, come here and get a 2x4 lol
Hi FaithnAK,
I think you get it too. It's just that every day brings different emotions, and concerns for us to handle. It will take all of us some time to process our emotions and return to a stable life. But it will happen.
I find myself fixating on certain aspects of my future. Thinking of the financial aspects, looking for a job, being alone, etc. Some days I get that panicked feeling, washes over me like a wave! I bring out the 2x4 when that happens and give myself a good whack. You're right, be the best Susan I can be and when I cannot give myself a 2x 4, come to this site and get several! lol
You are right- trying to figure out a WAS is pointless. That's why we have to just keep doing the DB for ourselves, in addition to reading some of the other great books mentioned on this forum.
Just reading everyone's threads is a huge help.We can pick and choose the advice that best fits our sitch.
You are not alone, we all are in this together.
Take care~
Hi pinhead,
Hope things are going okay for you~
Things are a bit different in my sitch the past few days.I am trying not to let my head run and let what has happened give me false hope, but thought it would be a good idea to run what transpired by you.
Big discussion on Saturday with WAH about what's to be in leg sep doc.Went well, but I did tell H I would contest a few items.No arguing.
Later that day, towards evening, he asked me if I wanted to play cards.I agreed. We had fun, we flirted alot, I made a sexual comment, H smiled.
We went to bed and I could "sense" he was waiting for me to make a move. Which I did. H said " I have to admit I miss your touch", I said same to him.
This morning he asked if I wanted to go mountain biking.Of course I went! we had a great time.
I don't want to get my hopes up that anything has changed in H's mind about leg sep, but signs seem to indicate he is getting a bit closer to me.I do know he is lonely, he has told me he is.
Anyway, I enjoyed feeling close to him even if it's not going to change anything.
Thanks for any input you have.
Take care
Susan,
You sound like you've had a good weekend. Not sure if the physical stuff with your H is a good idea, seems like it might be cake eating, but it's hard to know what to do in those situations, and everyone has their own needs/boundaries. I know that in my situation, I would see that as a huge turnaround for my wife, but with your husband, it could be purely a physical thing, not emotional.
Hi Pinhead,
You are probably right.I know some of the women on these posts pull out the heavy sx artillery in order to "soften" their WAH's. My H is a tough person who does not wear his emotions on his sleeves, so this approach is harder for me. For weeks H wouldn't get anywhere near me, walked a wide path. Now we stand closer together, accidently brush each others arm , etc and he doesn't cringe.
I was a bit surprised by H's comment " I admit I miss your touch". That sounds more emotional than sexual doesn't it?
I know, it all could be H's primal male desire and I just happened to be on hand so to speak. But as others have said on these posts my H is a man first, an engineer second, so I decided to give sx contact a try.
Thanks for your wisdom.I see from your posts you seem to be feeling better about things.I am happy for you. Hang in~
Hard to speak for your husband, but I know for me, I've really missed my W's touch, not just the sex, but everything. Ironically, we weren't touchy feely throughout our relationship, but now it's very important to me. Maybe it's just a case of wanting what you can't have.
His comment is interesting though. Might be some softening, depends on how he views things.
Physical touch is so important in a M. I can understand how you feel.
My H and I were always touchy feely up until about 5 years ago. I miss it all too.
Hopefully something clicks in our spouses when they see us as being "different" on a consistent basis and things will improve.
But if they don't, we are better now for us.
H's comment was unusual for him.
Take care~
I've been listening for a "click" sound so long, instead of listening to myself...
The clicking is a clock telling us time is wasting, but we don't react until it's too late to save our M.
H just told me that while I napped, he re-did some of the leg sep papers.
So, the events of the past few days were nothing more than "events".
I have to re-drop that rope.
You were right, cake eating.....
Hang in ~
The clicking is a clock telling us time is wasting, but we don't react until it's too late to save our M.
H just told me that while I napped, he re-did some of the leg sep papers.
So, the events of the past few days were nothing more than "events".
I have to re-drop that rope.
You were right, cake eating.....
Hang in ~
Hi Susan,
You know what? You had a piece of that cake too and you enjoyed it. Look at this as an opportunity that you are satisfied with what took place and the next time any type of situation happens, TURN HIM DOWN. No cards, no flirting, and just leave if you have to. Make him wonder what your thinking, this is a good time to all of a sudden become "mysterious". It's kinda like gaining the upper hand you know what I mean?
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you?
You are right, I did have the cake and enjoyed it too. The difference between me and H is that it most likely meant nothing to him, hence re-dropping that rope.
I will do as you suggest next time if there is one.
I just took it to mean H was softening, didn't think I was being played.
Live and learn.
Thanks for being there!!
Take care of yourself!
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you?
You are right, I did have the cake and enjoyed it too. The difference between me and H is that it most likely meant nothing to him, hence re-dropping that rope.
I will do as you suggest next time if there is one.
I just took it to mean H was softening, didn't think I was being played.
Live and learn.
Thanks for being there!!
Take care of yourself!
I'm good today. Thank you.
I don't think you were played and I don't think he softened either. It was just a thing that happened, however to truly drop that rope YOU can't let that "THING" happen again. You need to make him work for it. It happened because you wanted it too and if you want it to mean more or something else, then you will need to do the opposite of what YOU want to happen. You have to make him work for it next time.
Your on the right path, just want you to think about your self respect first.
If my W came in the house and dropped her panties in front of me and started loving on me, I can't say I wouldn't "partake", but if afterward...I saw the same crappy attitude. I'd want someone to tell me the same thing. lol Not trying to be crude
We're all only human. Even Robx for a long time was intimate with his W while separated.
Hi FaithnAK,
You are right..I don't think I was played now that I have reviewed the "event" again. I was the one, after all, that "put it out there". I think we just both felt needy.
The interesting thing is that a month ago, H would not have agreed to anything physical.
But, I won't initiate anything again physical again- H will have to, but there will have to be boundaries attached.
You weren't being crude at all- I get your point. In my sitch, I just thought if I could break down the ice barrier, I could soften my H's logical resolve. I am not 100% convinced H IS as closed emotionally as I though he was. Wishful thinking, maybe!
Anyway, the rope is dropped again, and life goes on.
I am making plans for my move in November.
Thanks for being "out there" .I appreciate your wise insight and support. It means alot to me.
Take care~
The human factor. The wanting to get close to the person who has pushed us away. You said it best- we want what we cannot have!
I am glad to know Robx did this too. At least I won't get my ears boxed on these boards. lol
2x4 time. But with that said I do not regret my move on H last night. It was what it was. I knew it in my heart it wouldn't change anything, but in my gut I felt I had to try to reach my logical thinking H on a physical level which is a large part of his reason for wanting a leg sep. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the input~
Take care~
The human factor. The wanting to get close to the person who has pushed us away. You said it best- we want what we cannot have!
I am glad to know Robx did this too. At least I won't get my ears boxed on these boards. lol
2x4 time. But with that said I do not regret my move on H last night. It was what it was. I knew it in my heart it wouldn't change anything, but in my gut I felt I had to try to reach my logical thinking H on a physical level which is a large part of his reason for wanting a leg sep. Does that make sense?
Thanks for the input~
Take care~
No 2x4 needed. And TBH what you are doing is working. It really is, but as for how the other night went, if your H "misses" that, then he needs to feel that he misses that. That's why next time (hopefully there is one), you can turn him down in a loving way (Boundary) and make him want it even more. Be hopeful, but don't settle for anything less than him pursuing you. Go to my post and read what CD Bear and I recently chatted about. The squirrel analogy is priceless. I'll link it so you don't have to dig (WAW wants to be Alone)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...866#Post2065866
" I admit I miss your touch".
This coming from the guy who doesn't wear his heart on his sleeve. That's all emotion.
You should be all over that. Make sure he feels your hair against his skin, something silky brushing up on him, jump in the shower with him, that is unless you still believe this man is all logic.
Hi FaithnAK,
I get and really like the squirrel analogy.
But if there is a next time and H initiates (he playfully swatted my rear end this morning), and I decline, what do I say? H seems to be softening some- or it's an act. H said this morning he's trying not to be sad about the leg sep.
Testing me isn't he..........
Thanks for the help, I sure need it.
Hang in~
Ooooh no, this man is not all about logic at this moment. I see now the inner struggle. Logic verses silky soft blonde hair, green eyes, laughter, soft touch....
So, YOU think it's okay for me to continue the seduction? I get advice from others saying not to do it. The squirrel factor~
Help!
Ooooh no, this man is not all about logic at this moment. I see now the inner struggle. Logic verses silky soft blonde hair, green eyes, laughter, soft touch....
So, YOU think it's okay for me to continue the seduction? I get advice from others saying not to do it. The squirrel factor~
Help!
Don't pursue - lure. Attraction that he can't withstand. He's a dog, show him a bone and see if he come's barking. Dogs are stupid when it comes to bones and easy to train once they know what's in store for them. Be a cat and hunt him down.
Let the hunt begin!
Okay, so I'll wear that sexy nightgown, be sure to watch TV with H while wearing. I can lie and stretch out on the floor like a cat. lol
I can jump into shower with H- oops, that's pursuing.
Tips please.I don't want to close H off. I see a slight crack in his tough veneer.
If H is re-thinking his plan of leg sep, do you think he'd say or would his pride be too great?
Thanks Coach!
Hi FaithnAK,
I get and really like the squirrel analogy.
But if there is a next time and H initiates (he playfully swatted my rear end this morning), and I decline, what do I say? H seems to be softening some- or it's an act. H said this morning he's trying not to be sad about the leg sep.
Testing me isn't he..........
Thanks for the help, I sure need it.
Hang in~
Wow. All I know is this, if you play hard to get = Him wanting you more. Tease him, do what Coach says, leave him so wanting you that he does something stupid to get you. Enjoy every freaking minute of it too.
LOL I can't tell a Woman what to say right now, but I can tell you what would work on me and probably 90% of the guys out there. Do your thing Girl. Make him want you. Maybe, you have plans...
You need Sandi2 and Greek in on this post right now lol
Yes, I need all the help I can get right now!
So what would work on 90% of the men out there? lol
Thanks for the advice!!
Take care~
Hi all,
Been lurking here a couple of days. So much good advice, and all around good thoughts. I read DB, what's NMMNG? H left 7/9, today is our 25th anniversary, we have one S 21,left me with all the bills to pay,and house to take care of. I told him I didn't want the house, too much upkeep, and I could do better in an apartment. I didn't tell him that angrily either, just stated the fact, he thought all along I would change my mind. I think he will be somewhat taken aback when he goes to the house and it's all different. I moved Saturday, and it has been better in some ways. New place, he hasn't ever been here, doesn't know where I am etc. Felt right, and still does. Anywho...he calls me about once a week, 3-5 minutes is all, very impersonal. He called last week to tell me he had been to a lawyer was proceeding with that. I mistakenly asked if it was too soon...He did call again on Saturday to see how the move went, but was not really interested I felt. He was also visiting his Mom, once a month trip, and that's the only time he calls on weekends, or evenings. He called from there last visit also, maybe he thinks o f me there, since it's a trip we have made together many times. Or not? Otherwise it's during work.
I like the squirrel analogy also, but I have never been a patient person. I am re-learning so many things! I guess I'm just rambling here. OW, since 5/09, although he denied until about 3 weeks ago, then it was like he couldn't tell enough people that he had her! He did ask S if he wanted to meet her, S was shocked, since H had told him we were having problems with our M. S is almost 22, but says H led him to believe that we would get back together. Oh, the dishonesty! I think that bothers me more than anything. That and him proudly telling all he has a girlfriend, not sure what that means? He is very proud of himself obviously, I say he should wait till the D is final before being too proud. OW is also M, but has in the last week or so separated also. She has a 9 year old D.
When he left, he wouldn't tell me where he was, like I was going to chase him down...LOL. I have since found out that he is living within a mile of OW. And I still haven't chased him down, and won't, too degrading. He told me he needs my address for D, I called post office, they will forward certified letter once, that's all I need. Don't think he needs to know where I am living. He was upset about that. He is still angry at times when he talks to me, like when he doesn't get his way. I have seen him 3 times since he left, and the phone calls were pretty much daily when he left, then have decreased. I think I may be wasting my time, and have really set my mind to making my own plans for the future. I only signed a 6 month lease, and will see where my life is at that time. Want to reconcile? Yes, think it's possible, some times, hope, not much H is very stubborn!
Just sharing, it's all still pretty crazy, but from what I have read, this is going to go on for a very long time. Good thing I have lots of supportive friends, and a very faithful dog and cat:) Thanks for reading, and any suggestions would be helpful and well taken!
_________________________
Yes, I need all the help I can get right now!
So what would work on 90% of the men out there? lol
Thanks for the advice!!
Take care~
Confidence in yourself that you have what you know he wants!
You're hot and you know it! Come across in a way your not pursuing rather just doing what you are going to do from now on to show value in yourself and what someone else is going to have if he doesn't get his head out of his ass.
I don't know what else to say on this. LOL. I'm sure someone out there will add more.
That helps!! Thanks for the "hot" part too ! lol
I will be a mysterious, sexy cat !
Take care~
Hi babh,
First, sorry you are here. You will find a strong support group here. There are some very helpful pros on this site. Seek out Coach, sandi2, Greek, pinhead.
It sounds like your H is having a mid life crisis.
Please read the forums explaining how to deal with that.
It sounds like you have taken steps to heal. Keep doing those things and place yourself first. Protect yourself emotionally as well as in every other way.
Please let me know how you are doing and try to get support from the others I mentioned- they have been on these boards for quite awhile and their advice is amazing.
Take care of yourself~
Hi FaithnAk,
How are you today?
I didn't do any of the "cat" things last night....
H put our wedding picture away this morning. The picture was on top of his armoire. I looked for picture, found it on a shelf in his office closet.
I am taking that as a big sign H isn't entertaining any thoughts of dropping leg sep.
I am bummed out today.
Thanks~
Take care
Hi FaithnAk,
How are you today?
I didn't do any of the "cat" things last night....
H put our wedding picture away this morning. The picture was on top of his armoire. I looked for picture, found it on a shelf in his office closet.
I am taking that as a big sign H isn't entertaining any thoughts of dropping leg sep.
I am bummed out today.
Thanks~
Take care
Hi Susan,
Last night I had a breakdown, but thanks to CD Bear I'm ok today.
I understand how that would bum you out.
Just keep moving forward though, chances are he's just trying to pull away from how he feels for you and also could be a test to see if you react. It's very important that you use the other night as momentum for YOU. Just work your magic and let him come to you, don't act like the other night made a difference in you either way.
In fact get fancied up and go out for awhile, maybe to a movie alone or with a friend and let him see this. Be nice if he asks, but be vague, mysterious. Cat's going out for a walk. Meow
Hi FaithnAk,
I am sorry you broke down, and especially glad CD Bear helped you through it. Thank goodness for the kind hearted people on this site~
Hang in there and know we all are here for you and care about you.
H found out that his ex-employer ( H retired) doesn't allow spouse to receive medical benefits if legally separated. So, H may push for D now.He brought up our M, I didn't. H said we absolutely are not staying together, M dead and we need to be apart... then he says later on, after things settle down, we could see each other if we both agree. Cake eating~
Try to hang in there.
We are in your corner~
Hi FaithnAk,
H found out that his ex-employer ( H retired) doesn't allow spouse to receive medical benefits if legally separated. So, H may push for D now.He brought up our M, I didn't. H said we absolutely are not staying together, M dead and we need to be apart... then he says later on, after things settle down, we could see each other if we both agree. Cake eating~
What made him bring this up again?
Hi FaithnAK,
I don't know- he seemed angry today as he will have to pay me more a month due to the med insurance snafu.
Maybe H got scared as we seemed to be getting a bit closer and getting along well. H talked alot-mentioned that " a few days of getting along well won't last and doesn't mean we should stay together and try again". I never brought it up. H said he is adamant we cannot stay married, but that he knows I think the M could be saved. My position all along was old M dead. All I ever advocated after bomb was dropped was trying to build a new M.
H putting the wedding picture away today was very telling.I think he was getting scared he wouldn't go through with leg sep or D. Mind reading, I know.
H very angry, told me I never appreciated the fact he put me through school, that I always took credit for everything I have, than he gave me advantages I never had before, etc. I don't understand the "attack".
The cat is going to stay away from the prey.
Hang in there~
Yes, I need all the help I can get right now!
So what would work on 90% of the men out there? lol
Thanks for the advice!!
Take care~
Be a tease, play along but intiate nothing. You don't play until he does, don't allow it to get to physical. Think of this as you're starting a new relationship. You don't give it up on the first date do you? Or even the second, right? You make him wait, and if he respects you and wants to be with you, he will wait.
Hi KellBell,
Thanks for the advice, I agree with it. But if you'll read my posts of today, you'll see things have changed with H.
He's very angry right now, and I won't do anything except GAL, DB, etc for myself.
How's your sitch going?
Thanks for writing~
Ah yes, I was just catching up. Sorry for the turn in events but hopefully you'll see improvement. My sitch is still mostly the same, H and OW, me states away, and I'm dark/NC.
Hi KellBell,
Yes, things took an ugly turn today. Don't know exactly why.It started with H putting our wedding pic away.
How are you coping being states away?
I haven't followed your sitch, sorry.
If you care to, please fill me in.
Sorry you are here. We sure have alot of excellent support and that is a life saver~
Hang in~
Being states away is very hard.
Basic rundown on my sitch is that H is military. He deployed to Afghanistan in July 09. We were fine, except one fight in late Dec-early Jan, but we bounced back and things were fine again. In May he said ILY one night and the next time we talked he was brief, didn't say ILY, the next day he said he felt divorce was best for us. At first I agreed, mainly out of fear, him being over there, having a history of depression and what not. I didn't want him to get mad over me saying no then do something drastic. Over the next few months we talked, but very little, he just didn't seem to want to talk to me. He came home in July, me, D and his family went to NY to welcome him home. We spent like 8 days up there and it was pretty good. We dropped D talk and I thought maybe we were going to try and work. He came home on leave in August and filed D papers without saying anything to me. He pretty much refused to see me, only saw D 3 times out of 15 days here. A few days ago I got confirmation on there being an OW and confronted him about his lies. He's lied to me about everything, and i mean everything, he denied but has talked to me once since and didn't make anymore attempts to deny or explain.
As of right now I don't know where OW is, if she's still here in my hometown (in TN) or in NY with H. H also has a TBI (diagonosed while he was still deployed and we were still ok) and an IC I'm seeing also says it sounds as though he has PTSD on top of it.
Sorry for the not so brief fill in, haha.
Hi KellBell,
I am sorry to hear how things turned out for you.
It sounds like you are doing pretty well in spite of H's lies and the distance, OW and new medical problems H has. Sounds like H is certainly going through some sort of life crisis. Freezing you and D out of his life as he did is erratic behavior. You mention PTSD. That could be causing H's odd behavior. I knew someone (actually the person worked for me) who suffered from PTSD. Fear and nothing but fear, he made irrational decisions.I hope your H gets some help, he will need alot of it.
You have alot on your plate, my friend.I am always so proud of how people on these posts hang in and hang on. We are a pretty amazing bunch!
You take care of yourself and your D.Do things for the two of you.
You will be in my thoughts and prayers~
The lies ar
Thank you Susan! I'm trying to just do 180's, GAL, and all that. In my gut I think he still cares very much for me, but is caught up in all of this. I knew H well enough to know when he just wanted it to be over and when there would've still been hope. But I said the other day, after finding his lies, that I can't trust or believe him anymore, he's not the same man that left a year ago.
We are an amazing bunch! I never thought I could find a group that was this great and informative.
You are in my thoughts too, thank you
Hi FaithnAK,
I don't know- he seemed angry today as he will have to pay me more a month due to the med insurance snafu.
Maybe H got scared as we seemed to be getting a bit closer and getting along well. H talked alot-mentioned that " a few days of getting along well won't last and doesn't mean we should stay together and try again". I never brought it up. H said he is adamant we cannot stay married, but that he knows I think the M could be saved. My position all along was old M dead. All I ever advocated after bomb was dropped was trying to build a new M.
H putting the wedding picture away today was very telling.I think he was getting scared he wouldn't go through with leg sep or D. Mind reading, I know.
H very angry, told me I never appreciated the fact he put me through school, that I always took credit for everything I have, than he gave me advantages I never had before, etc. I don't understand the "attack".
The cat is going to stay away from the prey.
Hang in there~
Did you just listen or say anything to him? Did you validate him and his feelings?
Here is the perfect opportunity for you to "tease" him. Get dressed up and go out and make sure he sees it. Show him that you are moving on with or without him.
You know him best, but at the same time you don't. Most of it is mind reading. However, one thing that pops out to me is he doesn't think the changes, whatever is working, will stick. SHOW him you mean business, don't tell him.
Hi FaithnAK,
You're right..H did say he doesn't think the good days like we had will last.
I did validate his feelings.
H asked me what he did that bothered me the most.I said I didn't feel validated. H told me that what he hates about me is that I am negative and complain. (true)
I will get dressed up one night this week and will go out- good idea.
Thanks!
I hope you are feeling better. Hang in there. We're all in this together~
Hi KellBell,
Doing the DB and GAL is a gift for ourselves. I admit, some days I don't do much for myself, I get caught up in the mess that is my life right now. I do, however, keep inspired by these wonderful threads-they give me hope.
I am sorry about the lies your H told you-it's hard to forgive someone who does that. It can be done, but takes time.
You sound like a strong person and you will be okay no matter what ends up happening with your H.
Take care~
Hi FaithnAK,
You're right..H did say he doesn't think the good days like we had will last.
I did validate his feelings.
H asked me what he did that bothered me the most.I said I didn't feel validated. H told me that what he hates about me is that I am negative and complain. (true)
I will get dressed up one night this week and will go out- good idea.
Thanks!
I hope you are feeling better. Hang in there. We're all in this together~
Hi Susan1,
How are you doing? At the least I hope you're still not bummed out.
How have you been on your negativity around him? Have you done a good job at finding positivity in things?
YES! Be Beautiful, but not like you're on the make either. Even if you have to just drive around for a few hours, I think you will really make him think about things and you'll like feeling like a sexy cat
Hi FaithnAK,
How are YOU?
No, I 'm not bummed out anymore...more lawyer appts arranged, but that is the path we are on...
I made a huge attempt to say lots of positive things today.I just think it may be too late.
H is moving forward with either leg sep or D.
I was the cat on the floor purring tonight...then H and I were intimate.He seems to regret it afterwards.
I will get dressed up Friday night and go out as you suggested.Even if I only drive to the mall or the nearest parking lot. lol.
Thanks for the help~
Take care
Hi FaithnAK,
How are YOU?
No, I 'm not bummed out anymore...more lawyer appts arranged, but that is the path we are on...
I made a huge attempt to say lots of positive things today.I just think it may be too late.
H is moving forward with either leg sep or D.
I was the cat on the floor purring tonight...then H and I were intimate.He seems to regret it afterwards.
I will get dressed up Friday night and go out as you suggested.Even if I only drive to the mall or the nearest parking lot. lol.
Thanks for the help~
Take care
I'm glad you're not bummed. Keep working on you. LOOK for the positives and feel it, don't be fake. You need to find positives.
He's going to regret it, you're humbling his "Feelings". You are doing something correctly, but you HAVE TO CHANGE it up. If you want intimacy, fine. If you want your M, you need to become elusive. Cat wants a new toy! However, you have to be a better person for YOURSELF to let this catch your H's eyes.
Keep purring, but DONT let him take it so easily. He knows what you are trying to do. Again, let him taste IT, but now, pull away and MAKE him miss it. You don't have to be mean to pull this off. ITS WORKING.
I'm good tonight. I had to take a break from here last night. It's a day by day thang.
Thank you for asking
Hi FaithnAK,
You're right. I plan on backing off now. I will do the dressing up and going out, GAL, DB, go apt hunting, keep my lawyer appts, say several positive things every day, etc. I plan to keep my distance now that I have planted the "seed". Time to sit back and let H see what he will be missing!
Hope you are having a good day and are feeling better about things.
Thanks for your great advice!
Take care, my friend~
Hi FaithnAK,
I am glad you are okay. And you will be okay no matter what. I truly feel many of us on these boards are the strongest people in the world, even if there are days we don't feel that strength.
I agree, taking a break from these boards is a good idea. Sometimes it can get depressing reading the sitchs.
I take each day as it comes- I find one day I feel "okay" about everything,(the " I can do it" speech), then the next day I have a feeling of fear and dread that grips my chest so tightly I feel as if I cannot breathe.
Take care my friend~
I read your post to John28. I'm proud of you in how you are handling your sitch. Good Job!
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you? Are you okay? I read some of your posts about finding out your W had an affair. I am so sorry. Sounds like you are getting stronger every day! Good for YOU~
Thanks so much for the positive words, means alot to me. I am doing so much better now than I did when bomb dropped in July. It almost seems as if I am a different person, but in my heart I know I am just a person who is understanding the reality of my sitch and moving forward. That doesn't mean my heart isn't broken, but I am coping and moving forward. Once I got it through my head my M was over, I started to do better, I finally got the concept of "letting go" everyone talks about, which is so vital and yet so hard to do. But once done, it frees us to starting living again.
Take care my friend.
I know life will be good for you again very very soon!
Hi Susan,
Yesterday, I wasn't good.
Today I'm actually feeling pretty good. The no contact thing is really empowering. She needs to know that a Boundary was crossed and I'm no longer available to her. She can go to loverboy now. No more pursuing, no more sitting around hoping, and no more enabling her to have both worlds. It's going to hurt off and on, but knowing the truth sets you free. I'm just so glad I don't feel like I'm neglecting her cheating a$$ anymore.
I'm so happy with your attitude Susan, no one is going to heal without time, but the more you put yourself first the better you will be. You deserve so much better. Stay strong and you take care too. If it ever get's too much, just post how you feel here. It's therapy.
Hi FaithnAK,
(((((FaithnAK)))))) I am sorry yesterday wasn't a good day for you. I understand. There will be the better and not so good days for all of us.
But today you are doing well, and that is a huge positive.
I am so proud you set that boundary and let your W go and set yourself free. And the words you used, "her cheating a$$", tells me that you truly are sticking up for yourself and are a bit angry.
Controlled anger can be used to our advantage.
You deserve better than someone who cheats on you. Anyone who chooses cheating over trying to repair M issues has a serious lack of character problem. I went through that in my first M, and it left me scarred.
Thank you for the kind words, FaithnAK. I appreciate them so much. I will stay strong as much as I can. I know once I have actually moved out of the house, the pain will be great, but I also know the healing will then begin.
I am proud of you and how you are handling a very painful and difficult sitch.
You are a decent, honest person who deserves a secure, trusting and loving R which you will find once you are ready.
I certainly will post as needed-you are right, it is wonderful therapy. I learn something I can use every time I read others sitches and replies to my posts~
Take good care of yourself~
Thanks so much for being "out there".
Hey there!
I'm better today, but it's getting weird I think. I'm almost to the point of abandoning ship. lol
I do deserve better and you do too! Life is too short to be with people that have no respect for us.
How long til you can move? Any potential living places?
Least we will turn out better than the ones we married.
Least we will turn out better than the ones we married.
That is exactally what I keep telling myself. When all is said and done, who is going to look back and be proud of the person they have become? It's not going to be him, that is for sure!
Hey ((((FaithnAK)))) !
Feeling like abandoning the ship tells me you are ready to move on and that is good for YOUR well being.
That's right, we do deserve better and we will have it when we are ready. Life is too short to settle for less. Even though I have a "dread" of "starting over" at 56, I know I can do it. Same as you can. We have strength of character and strength of will.
I looked at a few apts (rent is ridiculously high in CA), and a few condos for sale. My oldest brother has offered me his home for as long as I need it.So, I might stay with him and store my furniture.
I was laid off in April this year, and haven't found a job yet- I still have hip replacement surgery in 2 weeks, so alot on the proverbial "plate" .
I most likely will be out of H's house by end of November, or early December. I did tell H and it's in rough draft of leg sep doc, that I will leave when I am fully healed and can safely pack and lift moving boxes!!
H had put into leg sep draft that he was charging me $1750
rent for every extra month I stayed past Nov, but I told him that needed to be removed from leg sep draft, it was an insult and I would NEVER pay it. It was removed as well as a move out date. That date is to be determined by me and how fast I heal post surgery.
I am holding my own, I have my own lawyer.
Life will be good again for all of us except the WAS's. They will realize too late that what they had was pretty damn good after all.
Have a great day and remember there are many people here to help us at all times.
Take care~
Hi (((I havehope))),
I couldn't agree with you more.
Our lives will be better because-
1. WE didn't walk away from the M
2. WE wanted to work M through counseling
3. WE didn't lie, cheat or steal
I don't know much about your sitch, but always know we are here for you.
Take care~
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you?
I had a very bad day~
H and I got into a huge blow up about alimony.H's anger showed through-all along he's been pushing for mediation, but clearly he's been suppressing tremendous anger. Talked to me like I was scum under his feet. The "let's try to be friends" routine has all been an act.H is so resentful he has to give me a penny.I told him during the heat of battle that freedom is not FREE!
Anyway, I told him we could go into litigation any time.
I am considering canceling my surgery and moving out asap.
I don't deserve this s --t
Hope you are coping okay.Stay strong my friend~
.
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you?
I had a very bad day~
H and I got into a huge blow up about alimony.H's anger showed through-all along he's been pushing for mediation, but clearly he's been suppressing tremendous anger. Talked to me like I was scum under his feet. The "let's try to be friends" routine has all been an act.H is so resentful he has to give me a penny.I told him during the heat of battle that freedom is not FREE!
Anyway, I told him we could go into litigation any time.
I am considering canceling my surgery and moving out asap.
I don't deserve this s --t
Hope you are coping okay.Stay strong my friend~
I'm sorry Susan. You're right freedom is not free. You shouldn't have to put up with any of that crap. Do you have anybody that you could move in with while you recover from surgery? Maybe, that could be an option? If not, I think you might want to wait because I'd hate to see you having to rest, try to heal, and have to put up with disrespect. That would be one miserable sitch.
My day is equally sh!tty. Trying to be productive in getting out of this hell by packing her stuff up, but I find 2 used packages of the Morning After pill, which were used way before W moved out. So basically confirms again that she's been cheating for awhile. Now I'm freaked out about my health. Hope she didn't give me an STD. Pissed off because I have to deal with everything while she's out getting it on with no responsibility. Thank goodness I have my dogs.
It's just unbelievable how F'd up these WAS's can be.
Hang in there Susan. Try to get something set up so you can still have your surgery. Thanks for checking in.
Hi (((FaithnAK))),
Sorry you are having a shi!!y day.
That would greatly upset me too, to find sx related medications, etc. I am sorry you have to pack W's things and find such disrespectful items amongst her belongings. Odd she didn't take-it seems as maybe she wanted you to find the pills. How about tossing them out . It would take her power away if you act as if "here are your things" and smile when you had them to her, or better yet, leave the box on the porch for her, no contact.
Maybe I am naive, but I don't think it's all fun and games for most of the WAS's having affairs. How can their children respect them? How can they respect themselves? Or are they so selfish and lacking morals they justify everything? I believe once the excitement wears off with the OM, your W will start feeling guilty, and have emotional meltdowns. Just don't let her suck you back into a R with her until you truly can unemotionally look at the sitch and she gets counseling and stays out of the house until she is truly sorry and repairs herself so she is a trustworthy, whole person. Don't ever settle because of an emotional attachment with spouse.
I am fighting that demon right now. Still finding myself getting emotional about sitch.
I am glad you have your dogs- pets are a huge comfort. Always love us no matter what. What breed are your furkids?
The STD is a concern.My first husband gave me that gift.I didn't find out until after we were divorced.I had to have a surgical procedure because of it. So , please get yourself checked out as you plan to do. Wise decision.
My brother keeps telling me to come to his home and recuperate from the surgery. He has stairs though, so may not work. I will have to decide if I am going through with surgery as pre-op appts start this Tuesday.
The decisions I have to make are many and I am trying to calmly make them.
Yes, these WAS's are f----d up.
It's been miserable being here under these circumstances, but at least H and I were seemingly "friends". That was smoke and mirrors on his part.As long as I agreed to everything for settlement, he was friendly. No longer the case. Discussed the finances again this morning and same thing happened. Anger and resentment from H as I try to make a better deal for myself (H owns a million dollar home free and clear, has assets out the wazoo), which H resents. I again reminded H, that he is the one leaving the M, that sacrifices will be made on both our parts, that I feel I am making more sacrifices, which H says he does NOT care about since I ruined M too. I keep reminding him when he plays that card that HE is choosing to leave M, not ME and H is causing the financial split of assets. Useless to go down that road.I will let my lawyer review doc and proceed from there. We have another mediation lawyer appt tomorrow.
Thanks for writing and pls continue to keep in touch. You will come out of this okay.
Hi Susan,
Yeah, I'm just lost at words right now. All I know is she will get what is coming to her, one way or another. No way I'm taking her back at this point. I agree she needs help, rather cut my loss now and find someone better. Isn't that why I worked on my issues in the first place?
Going to focus 100% from here on, on me. No more crap. There is better people out there.
My furkids are Beagle and Springer
Beagle is old and drives me nuts but she's my bedtime snuggler. Springer is my all purpose good dog.
You know, even though your Brother has stairs least you can be in peace. Obviously you need your surgery, so maybe you should get out and go there. Seriously. What act is more for putting yourself first, than that? Might not be ideal but it will benefit you. Put you first and avoid what your H is making you feel you have or might have to do. Look it as home and physical therapy at the same time
Just let your L do the talking, and set his A$$ free. No need to try anymore.
Hang in there, look forward to hearing your decision.
Hi FaithnAK,
I understand being lost for words right now. All the pain, shock, sadness, anger, good/bad memories and fear of the future is swirling inside your head.
Yes, your WAW will get what's coming to her, (affairs don't generally last and who wants to stay with a cheater, it's a negative way to start a R),
but please try not to focus on that. It's a negative and will drain your energy. Focus on getting to that happy place for yourself.
As you said, you are working on your issues 100% right now for yourself and that is a gift to yourself. Yes, we all start DB in the first place so we can be better.
Your furkids sound sweet-having a bedtime snuggler like Beagle is a big comfort. I bet Springer likes long walks?
Yes, the stair issue at my brother's can be resolved.I can stay in the den downstairs, but he'd have to remove alot of stuff from the room. I wish to minimize the stress I place on him as he suffers from Multiple Sclerosis and has alot of pain. He's my oldest brother and I love him dearly, we have always been very very close.
Today, I still am planning on the surgery and will see how it goes when I return to H's home for the recuperation portion. If things deteriorate, then I will have my brother's girlfriend pick me up and will stay at my brother's until I can return to H's to pack and get my things out.
H is showing his true colors.It's quite interesting how he went from "friend" to "foe" in a matter of seconds when I questioned the finances. I am not surprised.
Believe me, the gloves are off and I am up for whatever H tosses my way.I am a fighter and once I make up my mind to do something there isn't any way it won't be done.I redid my monthly budget , it's higher now. H is
H's a$$ wants to be free, so that is what he will get, BUT not without a price. I need to have enough $$ to support myself until I get a new job. It's all nuts and bolts things that H as an engineer should understand.
Has nothing to do with "taking him to cleaners" as he likes to say.
Hang in there, walk your doggies and cuddle with them, and receive their positive energy and love. Pets are a huge comfort, we need them more than ever now.
You are in my thoughts and prayers~
Hi Susan,
I'm glad you are going through with your Surgery. Your health is very important. Regardless of H actions, you can't put that off. Hopefully, you will not have to move in with your Brother, but least you have a plan.
Yes, you sound like quite a fighter. You are definitely not a quitter.
Sounds like your H has a little boy acting out in him. Just stay calm and don't reward him him. L's can do your talking. Focus on healing.
My sanity will prevail. I haven't really felt anything at all today, just a little anger at my past actions.
Beagle wouldn't sleep with me last night, I think I was killing someone in my sleep. LOL All my Springer lives for is to catch her frisbee. Loves it. Wears her out too. Eyes are all bloodshot when we get home and she snores. Cracks me up.
I'll put you in my prayers too. Thank you.
Talk to ya soon
Hi FaithnAK,
Yes, your sanity WILL prevail. The anger is all a normal part of the "grieving" and coming to terms with reality of sitch process.
Thanks..I believe I made the right decision too. I need that "new right hip" and will go into hosp. 09/27 for the new bionic parts. LOL. Once surgery is complete, I will have a matching set of "artificial hips".
I had a hip replacement on the left side in 2004. I have a genetic bone disease given to me by my mom-she feels guilty about that, but I tell her just don't give me your breast cancer too!!
I think H will be an okay caregiver as long as we don't argue. The first surgery he took a week off work to take care of me, but I told him after 3 days to go back to work. I could tell he hated being a caregiver. THAT was a red flag.
We are in mediation for the Leg sep or D ( most likely D), and the second appt was rough due to alimony issues. H started getting VERY angry, (little boy temper tantrum/been D already once and mad as hell he has to pay another W alimony.Too bad since he doesn't want to stay married), and mediator told him to calm down. H said some really insulting things. I stayed calm, but firm with my position. Mediation isn't a cake walk either, but it beats the heck out of paying $25 grand for litigation in a contested D.
I recommend mediation- good luck if you go that route.I read your post stating you might do that?
Sounds like Beagle got scared last night with the "killing" you were doing in your sleep!!! Just keep the "killing" confined to your dreams, okay!! I have had some bizarre dreams since the whole bomb sitch started.
I pegged Springer as the running/ jumping type. Too cute about how she gets worn out and snores from frisbee chasing. As I said, pets are such a comfort.Just watching them makes me smile. Their antics are often hilarious. My brother has two pugs, Molly (is a puppy) and Leila, who is three. I will greatly enjoy playing with them and also walking them while I live with my brother temporarily.
I will say a prayer for you nightly, FaithnAK. I care.
I am glad you are hanging in there.I read some of your posts from yesterday and I know you are struggling. It will get easier in time.
Thanks..I believe I made the right decision too. I need that "new right hip" and will go into hosp. 09/27 for the new bionic parts. LOL. Once surgery is complete, I will have a matching set of "artificial hips".
I had a hip replacement on the left side in 2004. I have a genetic bone disease given to me by my mom-she feels guilty about that, but I tell her just don't give me your breast cancer too!!
GOOD GRIEF! No wonder you're such a good fighter! How bad is the disease? Does it go elsewhere or just your hips? I truly hope your request about the cancer goes thru. LOL. Not funny really.
Just out of curiosity what did he say? It must have been bad if L asked him to calm down.
My W pulled her deposit. She's in full run mode now. I guess. Oh well, I actually laughed. I want mediation but maybe sending a message to her will be required. I can't break up her "Love Feelings" but when they die off I can make her remember the loss. At this point I can't play fair, but I want to send the biggest message in the cheapest way. LOL
Too bad, this crap has to happen. Oh well, I'll at the least be able to live with myself. I truly think I've let go, but detaching is the issue that might be unfolding. Not much I can do til her freedom is complete.
Dogs made me so MAD last night. It's funny today though. Beagle all of a sudden remembered she likes to bury her bones. However, she remembered after a muddy rainfall! Came in house and left MUD EVERYWHERE. I dreamed about skinning her that night :P It's funny today though. Dogs were chasing each other round the yard and I was grateful I had the opportunity to watch them.
Keep praying for me and I will return the favor.
Hope you can post after surgery (Laptop?)!
Have a good night.
Hi (((FaithnAK))),
How are you?
Yes, the humor helps a bit with the fact my bones are "bad". I have "bad" bones pretty much everywhere, but the hips are the worst.I take very heavy duty non steroidal meds for the pain and I do pretty well for everything except the the hip joint, which need replacing as it's a bone on bone sitch. Pretty painful, I must admit, but I am sure it could be worse so I deal with it.And once I am fully Bionic, no more hip pain!!! The non steroidal meds are terrible for liver/kidney function.We all have our crosses to bear right??!! Could be worse.I am lucky I do believe.I truly feel my mom will keep her breast cancer to herself-so far so good on those nasty to get mammograms!!! .lol
What H said at L meeting was that I am changing the budget daily, that I am milking him for every nickle , that I could live with a lesbian or F--k buddy and get financial help which meant he should pay less money. L was not pleased. I think she handled it all very well.She told H, "well you can go to litigation and pay 25 K or you can agree to pay Susan the alimony she NEEDS to live on". L also said when we were discussing alimony when my H got mad, she said what did you hear Susan say? My H said she wants to take me for as much as possible" The L said, no I heard her say she's scared she won't have enough money to live on.
Basically H just got very angry and his true colors showed.It was quite interesting. This am we had another fight about alimony, this time here at home.I left for the day after that "discussion". H said the D is ALL my fault. Typical WAS comment.
Your W pulled her deposit on ?? Yes, send her the message in the cheapest way. There do need to be boundaries.
You are right, too bad this crap has to happen, but as long as you can live with yourself, you are doing great.
Oh my, mud everywhere!!! Sounds cute and funny but bet it wasn't for you at the time!! Gotta love those pets though. it's healthy for you to watch them play~
Yes, I will post after I return home from surgery. I should be home on the 29th!! Only two nights in hosp. YAY!!! I have a laptop too.
The prayers will continue, my friend.
Hang in there~
Hi FaithnAK,
Are you okay???
Pls post. I am worried about you~
Hi Susan,
How are you? Your H sounds like a serious A-Hole.
TBH I'm on a Roller Coaster and can't get off.
All the contact W and I had last week just made me realize that she's gone and there is no more trusting her. So no more communication to her from now on regarding ANYTHING, today I'm working on getting mediator so all messages and financial issues can be discussed 3rd party. I made up my mind that's the best for me. No more lies, no more trying to decipher her mind, or hear anymore of her provoking comments. I'm just done setting myself up for disappointment and enabling her.
Now I just hope the hurt of this situation dies off as fast as possible. I'm just want to move on.
Hi (((FaithnAK))),
Thanks for writing.I was worried about you.
Today, I am okay. It's different each day. Some days I do okay, then others, I am a wreck.
I cry, let it all out (in private), give myself a positive self talk lecture, pick myself up and try moving forward again. This is the hardest time of my life for sure.
Thanks for asking. You are right- my H is an (angry) a$$hole. His only goals now are keeping as much of our money away from me as possible, reminding me the failed M is all my fault and reminding me of what I will be missing once I leave (beautiful house, security, traveling, etc), and getting rid of me by Dec 1st, so his D38 can visit in December and they can have the house to themselves with me, the evil stepmama and W not around. lol.
I am sorry you are hurting so much. But the decisions you have made are the best ones for you and your sitch. Your WAW cannot be allowed to jerk you around anymore.
We have to take their power away and we do that by dropping the rope, letting them go. Doing this is the way we begin to feel good about ourselves and move closer towards that good life that awaits us.
With that being said, it's not easy- it's two steps forward, three back , until we become strong enough to take only forward steps.
H and I see mediation L again tomorrow. Meeting will be interesting as H has taken the previous alimony amount off table and replaced the numbers with some new ones that at first glance seem to benefit him.I have to work the numbers. I wish H would keep the money and work on the M, but he refuses. So we are lawyered up and off to fight in the ring.I prefer not to fight, but H isn't being "fair".
Hang in there- keep hugging those furkids for comfort and know all of us on these boards care about you~
Hi Susan,
I just want to wish you the best tomorrow! You better post the minute you wake up
Even if it looks like this...
ahuxdyhsduwuygdaygyyawg
Take care and I'll be thinking of you. Let us know how you are.
Hi, Susan.
Just waiting to hear an update.
Hope you are doing well.
Please let us know.
(((Susan)))
Susan, just thinking of you. Figure I'd bump your post up.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Hope we get to hear from ya soon!
Hi FaithnAK,
How are YOU doing? Are things getting better? I sure hope so (((Faith))).
I came home from the hospital last Wed, the 09/29. Hip replacement surgery went well, I am now 100% bionic hip wise! lol
I am recovering nicely, doing all my rehab exercises, and some of them are a b***h to do because of the pain they cause. But no pain, no gain, right!
I should be able to drive in a few weeks.
My sitch is the same. H dropped more papers at the mediators office yesterday, so we are still on the path to the big D.
H hasn't always been very helpful or kind during my recovery. His true colors (hatred of me), are showing. it's a sad sitch, but my brother is waiting for me to move in with he and his girlfriend, so I will get to it as soon as healed up enough to pack and move.
Hope your dogs are well and bringing you some much needed love and comfort.
You take care and thanks so much for checking in with me, I really appreciate your concern~
Hi ((( idontunderstand))),
How are YOU? How's your sitch going?
Thanks for asking- I am doing pretty well. I seem to be healing pretty quickly and looking forward to resuming a normal life again, whatever that is. These bionic hips are awesome!
Take care of yourself~
YAY! You are ok!
Oh I feel for ya on the rehab. It's like they should give you anesthesia for that process alone. LOL
I'm so glad your ok and that you will be moving to your Brothers. Hang in there and get better before you deal with him.
I'll be posting my recent "experience" later tonight. Either in Infidelity or MLC. Kinda want to avoid Infedelity since they locked my thread.
Yay, you're on the board! Hi !!!!!!
Yes, I am hanging in and I am okay.
A nice extra extra extra large Margarita would be great before doing my rehab, but sadly, that isn't allowed-YET! Yep, rehab is tough.
Thank goodness for pain meds!
The therapists really work you. Of course I work myself harder than they ever could-I am impatient to be my "old" self again.
Have a wonderful evening and take good care of yourself.I'll look forward to reading your latest news in the other forum.
Many hugs~
WORK THOSE HIPS!
So when I went thru my Knee rehab at first...they gave me a rubber "ball" to chew on when they had to "force" ROM. Not sure what is involved with a hip...anything like that? I mean a knee is a knee...but you have the whole damn leg to move with a hip.
Hope you are doing ok.
Hi, Susan.
I also want to wish you a speedy recovery! I have had three knee surgeries, all old sports related injuries, and they were bad enough. I'm sure the "bionic hips" will be great for you in the near future. Too bad they can't just put them in and you are ready to go as soon as you wake up. You'll get there soon enough.
Try not to hate your PT too much! He or she are only doing their jobs!
Take care.
Hi FaithnAK,
How are you today?
Did you have a knee replacement or injury? I have heard knee replacements are much more complicated than hips.Hope your knee is good now! Biting down on a ball during ROM exercises sounds like your PT was rough!!
I am doing well.Hip replacements make all the muscles weak in the hip area. At first the leg is so weak cannot lift it much. I have made tremendous progress in just a week. The only "complaint" is lots of nerve pain, which I hope goes away. Every day brings more progress, yay!
I hope you are ok and are holding your own.Take care~
Susan,
A friend of mine in FLA is a physical therapist. She deals with hips/knees, all the fun stuff. And she says that all the men are wimps compared to the women! Says they cry and moan, while the women just grit their teeth and press on.
Hi idontunderstand,
Thanks for the well wishes. I am doing fine~
Three knee surgeries, my goodness. Are you okay now?
I don't despise the PT too much..lol.I know she is only doing what is best for me! Both PT's are quite nice and tell me I am doing very well. I guess if they see that you want to heal fast they aren't tougher.
Time heals all, thank goodness.
Take care of youself~
Hey Pinhead,
How are you doing? Well, I hope.
I heard the same thing! One of my PT's while in hosp said she had a 36 male THR patient who refused to get out of bed after surgery, refused to do any rehab. The hosp had to send him to a rehab facility.
We have to committ to working hard to regain strength-it hurts, but there is no other way. Gotta bite the bullet and say Geronimo! lol
I am sure your PT friend has seen it all!
Thanks for writing and take GOOD care of yourself~
Hi!
Your thread is very large. Please start a new one. Large threads slow down the mechanics of the board.
Thanks,
sg
Hi sgctxok,
I need to leave the Newcomers forum anyway, and go to the Divorced forum, but don't know how to do that or move my old threads to that site. If you'll kindly explain how to do, I will gladly start a new thread.
Thanks much~
You sure better keep lurking in Newcomers, Susan...
Hi Pinhead,
How are you ?
I'd love to keep lurking in Newcomers, but my sitch has taken the path to the big D,so I think the Divorce forum is where I should be posting.
H wants a D. He is going to file - we have already seen lawyers, etc. H turned in more paperwork to our mediator this past Monday.H has a deadline for me to "vacate " his home BY Dec 1. I just had surgery, so I will go when I am healed.
I tried DB, 180, and continue to do so, but nothing will change H's mind. You know from my thread that H is an engineer and he is extremely logical and feels the D is the right path. Many times he has told me the D is MY fault.I know the WAS says lots of things, but I know my H well enough to know that this is his belief. H barely speaks to me- he is already rearranging things in the house.Not so subtle is my STBXH???!!!!!
So I am focusing on myself, getting stronger day by day and will meet head on what is to come in the next few months.
Take care of yourself. I see from your sitch things are not going well.So sorry~
Well, you don't have to leave, Susan...but if you want to...just start your thread....and I will 'link' your old threads (They don't really get moved).
Hi sgctxok,
I think I 'll stay put- I am known as a newcomer and I like it here. lol.It beats the D forum, even though that is where I am at in my sitch.
Thanks
Susan,
Hope the hips are feeling better!
Hey Pinhead,
Hope your sitch is going okay~
The newly operated right hip is healing quite nicely, thank you! I am faithfully doing all my PT exercises and I am ready to kick some H butt!
Can't hold us bionic babes down for long. A "D" doesn't define me.
I hope you have a great day and are taking care of yourself.THAT is the most important thing.
Hi, Susan -
Glad to hear you are on the mend.
Very wise words.
Take care.
Hey Pinhead,
Hope your sitch is going okay~
The newly operated right hip is healing quite nicely, thank you! I am faithfully doing all my PT exercises and I am ready to kick some H butt!
Can't hold us bionic babes down for long. A "D" doesn't define me.
I hope you have a great day and are taking care of yourself.THAT is the most important thing.
Glad to hear!
You're right, no one thing defines you!
Hi idontunderstand,
How are YOU? Okay I hope~
Yes, I am on the mend. Thank you very much for the well wishes.Wonderful support on this forum!
I still walk like a duck, as the muscles are still sore.
Thanks- yes, many things define me and a D isn't one of them.My H is hung up on being a "two timer loser" regarding our "failed" M and subsequent D. The D is HIS choice and so is HIS negative viewpoint.
Take care of yourself~
Hi Pinhead!
How's your sitch?
Thanks, I AM on the mend, doing nicely.I must say this right total hip replacement went much more smoothly than the left one did!
Thanks for writing, I hope you and your darling children are okay.
Take care~
My sitch is ok. I'm learning patience! We spent a lot of time damaging our relationship, it's going to take a lot of time to repair it. And I'm impulsive by nature, so trying to 180 that.
My girls are great. Youngest has a stutter, but the school is having their speech pathologist check her out. Hopefully it's something easily correctable. My oldest and I are trying to work out our "control and listening" issues. She's 8 going on 18, and is as stubborn as I am. So learning to communicate is a work in progress.
I got a big chunk finished on my book, so now I'm stewing over the next chapter. Good to be making tangible progress on it.
My biggest problem is time! Not enough time this week for working out, sleeping, writing, reading, spending quality time with the girls, and finally spending quality time with the W. She's beat, I'm running down too, and I haven't done as much prep for my upcoming 5K. Waking up at 5am isn't too appealing! But it might be the only way I can get back on my running routine. I really enjoyed running right after I got home from work, but that was eating into dinner/homework/family time too much. UGH!
Hi Pinhead,
It sounds like you are doing great with your sitch!
I agree- we do so many hurtful things in our M and it takes a long time to forget, forgive and start being nice to each other again- like when we first met our spouses. Takes a lot of patience, but you will get there. You have identified that you need to work on having patience (my area of work too), and that means you are on the path to correct that part of yourself. We all want a quick fix and there isn't any- it takes a lot of time, hard work, breaking bad habits and forgiving the other person for their faults and weaknesses. I applaud you (and your W) , for working so hard on saving your M and I wish you much success!
I am so happy your girls are great. Stuttering can be a nervous disorder- I say that because my sister stuttered as a young girl and does now even at 60, when she gets nervous. Your daughter may outgrow the stuttering. Sounds like you have your hands full with D8, control issues and all. A struggle for power is never easy! I can relate to the stubborness!
I am thrilled to hear you are writing a book. What genre? I always wanted to write a novel, but just never got started.
Having enough time is a huge problem for most people.Sounds like you and your family need a time out to recuperate and just let things settle.A lot of emotions are still in the air and that is tiring day after day. Plus your upcoming 5k. Sounds like a whirlwind of activity! please S L O W D O W N !!
Take care, my forum friend.All will be as it should be.I am a firm believer that everything happens for a reason.
D8 is a redhead, and definitely fits the stereotype. I wouldn't change a bit about her though, as I think I'm the one who needs to change the relationship.
Book is fiction, murder/action genre. Had the idea stewing around for at least three years, never felt I could actually pull it off. Going to find out...
Life other than the R is going great. Work is going much better now that I'm not a basket case, I'm healthy and productive, and much more involved with life. Wish the W was enjoying the ride as much as I, but she'll get there.
Hey Pin,
I stuttered some when I was a kid. There are different causes of it, but for me, it did involve anxiety because it was more common in public situations (like raising hand and answering question) or in other situations when I felt anxious. They taught me some sort of compensatory skills to get unstuck when the stutter stick would happen and I think just general increase in self-confidence and managing anxiety also helped. I bet she'll lick it =)
She sure doesn't lack for confidence! This kid will get involved with anything, stand up in front of church, you name it. I just hope it doesn't become something she grows self-conscious of.
I can relate to the redhead thing. My nephew had a 5 year old daughter who is a redhead- she is headstrong and very bright,same as your daughter sounds like she is.I think it just takes a bit more finesse dealing with a redhead~ You will get there.
Your book sounds amazing and is the genre I love to read. When published all of us DBer's will buy copies.
You seem more in control now and stronger than when I first started reading your thread. I am sure it shows at work and at home. Your W will most likely arrive at the same place you are at in time. Everyone is so vastly different, we need to be patient (I am not patient!) and let the spouse come to us when they are ready.
My H has walked away from me in every way except physically since we are still sharing his home.In my heart, I feel he will regret the D, but maybe that is just some left over wishful thinking on my part. I am doing great now though and I am ready to face the end of H and I's M when we part in December 2010.
Take care and have a wonderful Thursday~
I am sure your daughter will be just fine~
Hello Susan!
How are you doing?
Hi ((( FaithnAK)))!
So nice to hear from you!
More importantly than me, how are YOU? How is your sitch going and are you taking care of yourself?
Thanks so much for checking in on me- I am doing very well. My right hip is healing quickly. I only use the cane when I go out in public. I feel almost "normal" again and I have to caution myself not to overdo.
I tend to go full bore and think I am healed even though I am less than three weeks out of hospital.
The other day, I drove H's truck (easier to get in and out of than my SKY), around the block while he supervised. I can drive, yay!!!! The freedom just to drive myself somewhere is liberating.
How are your dogs? Are they taking good care of you?
You hang in there and always remember I am in your corner~
That's awesome Susan. You sound like you're going to be running all over the place very soon.
I don't know why but I hear "Chariots of fire" playing and the sounds of the bionic woman at the same time.
Thanks for being in my corner Susan. I will be fine. Everything takes time and I have a great support group. I'm finally focused on ME instead of her or the M. Just gotta be me again.
Dogs are ok, but I've got to run there butts hard this weekend. They have had a few days of no walks and their tearin through the house playing.
How are you and your H getting along? Has he settled down from the anger 101 show he put on?
Hope you have a good weekend.
Hi (((FaithnAK))),
Yes, you need to be who you are without boundaries. Love who you are, no matter what you hear from WAW. You will be okay again, it just takes "time".
I am glad you are "holding your own". I know it's hard, and I empathize. I truly feel you will find soon that your courage and strength will pay off. We have to focus on ourselves only and not let the WAS define us. This is very important.
I am doing well with my recovery. I drove myself to several stores today. I needed things for when I move and I purchased them, and I feel great! I am stiff and sore, and move like I am 100 years old, but I am doing great. I do feel it's all mind over matter, my friend!
I have found throughout this whole D process that I have a strong sense of survival mode after all. I didn't think so in July when the "bomb" dropped. I feel I have my "mojo" back and I am okay.
Run your dogs butts hard this weekend, they will love you for it! lol
H is "H". He still has resentment and anger issues.I don't play along. He helps me when necessary, but I rarely if ever ask him for help.
A male friend (nothing but platonic) took me to lunch today..H was seemed "surprised" and went to take a take a nap before this person picked me up.
Have a good weekend, YOU deserve it.
Hang in there- of course I am thinking of you and I AM in your corner! Always~
Hi Susan,
Your thread is very large. Please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg
Didn't we go through this before? lol