I do not even know where to start. My soon to be ex husband (I guess not really sure what he is thinking), stopped talking to me just after x-mas, after 8 weeks of trying to figure it out and trying to get him to talk, he decided it was easier to move out, he has now been gone 12 weeks. We have been together 16 years, married for 11. The fact that he moved out floored me, we have 2 kids and I did not even know we were having problems prior to him not talking. Now he is not the best communicator and apparently this is the problem, he has kept stuff bottled up for a long time and he is now so angry he cannot even see us working on this. He will not go to marriage counselling and will not even talk about the situation. He has gone from I want a divorce, to there is hope, then to I do not want a divorce but I do not know if I will ever come home. He has encouraged me to buy a new place and move on and if he decides to come back in the future hopefully I will take him back but he just cannot deal with it right now. As of last week I gave him a letter cutting off all contact, we have spoken a bit since but I have told him again today to stop contacting me. Our son last night told him that since he has decided to not ever come home how about he just stay away from now on. As a father how can you hear that and not care enough to try and save a marriage that really had no big issues. We were best friends, rarely argued and just generally were happy, apparently though we put our kids first to many times and he feels like he does not love me anymore. I am not sure what I am looking for by posting this but basically just some thoughts, I am having a very hard time with having lost not only my spouse but my best friend and I just cannot seem to move on.
HMom,
sorry your here, but the folks here ae helpful. Although everyones sitch is different the basics behind them are similiar.
Now he is not the best communicator and apparently this is the problem, he has kept stuff bottled up for a long time and he is now so angry he cannot even see us working on this
We were best friends, rarely argued and just generally were happy, apparently though we put our kids first to many times and he feels like he does not love me anymore.
I can relate to these staements. I was not a very good communicator but thought I was a good listener, my W thought she was a good communicator however she wasn't.
We rarely argued, she would tell me this and that and I said I'll change those things. I did for a little while but reverted back.
I never complained about her faults, I accepted them. I should have been more vocal with my feelings.
So what I'm saying is that not arguing is not a sign of happiness. Arguements are good if they are approach the right way.
Now he is not the best communicator and apparently this is the problem
Remember it take two to communicate, so think about how you communicated to him. Was your thoughts and feelings really registering? Just giving you a different perspective.
Are there any other outside influences here?
Other Woman(OW)?
Joblessness?
Depression?
MLC?
PLease tell us more about it.
It is very hard for you now, I have been there. I understand you want the family to remain intacted. As did I.
Right now, try to find a sitch that relates to you and follow it. Get the the book DR if you don't have it and start reading.
Don't let H know about the book either.
Words means NOTHING right now. It's all about your actions.
Focus on yourself. You are going to need all the strength you have to get through this.
TTYS Gr8
I'm sorry, but it sounds to me like he's chemically affected, either by clinical depression, or another woman.
I suggest you take some steps to confirm, so you'll know what you're dealing with.
Puppy
Hi Hockeymom,
I can relate to some of your story as well. It's a very difficult thing to be put in limbo situation and feel in the dark about what's going on with the other person. I will reiterate what gr8 has said - the reality is that you can't crawl inside someone's head. The only thing you can do is become intimately familiar with your own process and try to figure out how you can find peace within yourself and create a better life regardless of what your spouse does. I think this is one of the most difficult challenges (aside from serious illness) that a person can tackle but I also believe it is likely the most rewarding. Try to hang in there and find all of the places where you can get support and reminders to keep doing what is in your (and your children's) best interest.
A
There is no ow, this has been confirmed over and over. He is not a good liar and a very good friend of ours who is a marriage counsellor has asked him and he would not lie to him for sure, even to save face. He is not like that and I have to believe him when he says this is not what it is about. I agree that arguments are good and I should probably clarify something I would argue but he would never argue back, he would just walk away and let me think everything was fine, when it wasn't. I always communicated with him and truly believed that we were on the same page. He has admitted that if he had been able to open up sooner we would not be where we are now and is taking the full blame for that. I know that actions speak volumes and that words mean nothing as words have not gotten through to him, but my actions have not either. I am going to counselling to work on my issues as he requested, I have worked very hard on my faults and while it will take longer than 12 weeks to totally change my bad habits, he does not even see the small changes I have done. It is like he does not want to see them for fear that he will have to take the full blame for the breakup of our marriage instead of blaming it on me.
There is no ow, this has been confirmed over and over. He is not a good liar and a very good friend of ours who is a marriage counsellor has asked him and he would not lie to him for sure, even to save face. He is not like that and I have to believe him when he says this is not what it is about.
You're being naive.
If there is no other woman, he'll say there is no other woman.
If there IS another woman, he'll say there is no other woman.
ALL CHEATERS LIE -- PERIOD.Now, I'm not saying he is or he isn't. All I'm saying, is:
1. He's displaying a lot of classic warning flags, and it would explain a LOT; and
2. You should verify it, and you DON'T verify it by ASKING THEM, because they will only lie to you.
People lie to their own counselors all the time. Please, BE CAREFUL.
Puppy
How do I verify it? I have access to his email and cell phone and there is nothing. I know he is no longer in my house and I cannot verify his whereabouts anymore but prior he did not have time for an affair, we travelled to work together as we work at the same university, we would always be with one kid or the other running them around, there truly was no time. We would talk on the phone all the time, so while there might be someone now there wasn't before the break up of our marriage. Believe me if this is the case I want to know, I am not being naive, I just cannot find any signs of it.
Does he KNOW you have access to his cellphone and e-mail?
Usually, there is a cellphone #2 (usually prepaid), and an e-mail #2 (usually web-based, like gmail or yahoo).
Do you know if he's ever asked a physician's opinion on whether or not he's clinically depressed?
Hmom,
I always communicated with him and truly believed that we were on the same page.
This is a powerful word. This is your perspective on the interaction.
My W and I fit this to a tee, however she was the one who decided to leave.
When I recieved my bomb I thought and asked her if there was someone else. She said no, and I her mom and friend told me the same thing. I do remeber her telling me that she was receiving a lot of attention when she went out but always came home to me.
IMO altough there mey not be signs of OW there may be thoughts about OW, especially if he is unhappy and is receiving attention from someone.
My W says she didn't want to cheat on me while M. Her moving out and saying it's over justified her thoughts about the M being over, thus making her OK to se OM.
I am just giving you things to think about.
Puppy is so very good so please listen to him.
I have been here 8 months and seen and learned a lot too.
You said you both worh together so he has a job. Is he Depressed? Going through MLC?
Unless he has a side job there is no way for him to have another cell phone, his current one is through work and since I still have all the access to his finances and I know what he is taking out of our account (believe me it is not alot) I would not know how he is paying for it, as for email I am aware that he could have other accounts and maybe he does but I will not know that until he comes clean. And no he does not have anothe bank account, I have always done our finances and his cheque goes into our joint account and every penny is accounted for, the joy of living paycheque to paycheque. He has not spoken to his physician that I know of, he would never accept this diagnosis. His theory would be that if his counsellor has not suggested this than he is fine. At this point he is just angry and wants out. I would not even be able to get him to see his physician at this point.
I think he is going through a MLC, however he might be a bit young for that. He laughs when I say this but I truly believe it. I would not be surprised if he was depressed as it does run in his family however getting him to admit it would be impossible.
I appreciate all of the responses.
Hmom,
could you enter the data about yourself that appears at the bottom of each post?
Here's a 2x4 with love.
you say he's too young to be going through a MLC. HOW young is too young?
You need to be more specific! I have known you for 2 minutes and see problems with your communication.
We are here to help and will be brutally honest in our assessments.
Now this is from my personal experience:
How has your intimatacy been up to the point when he said he was done?
How old are you're kids?
[b]What would your husband say if someone asked him:
" What has it been like living with you W for the past year?"[/b]
No one like to admit they have a problem. Don't expect him to.
Our intimacy was better than it had ever been. It stopped when he stopped talking to me because I felt attacked. He would say that I have been very angry and not happy. That is probably true but he should have voiced it to me before he got to the point of needing to leave. I am not communicating everything on here because I do not know what I am all suppose to put, so do not judge my communication skills.
M-34
W-33
D-15
S-10
T-16 years
m-11 years
Bomb-02/24
It stopped when he stopped talking to me because I felt attacked
so do not judge my communication skills.
I am not judging your skills. I am trying to understand you.
Did you feel attacked when I made that comment? Please be specific when telling us information.
We/I want to help you through this.
My W is 34 too and I considered she was having a MLC. I also thought she was suffering from post pardum depression.
34 is not too young to feel like your life isn't going in the right direction.
Gr8
I do appreciate your advice and I appreciate the time you are taking to write on my post, as you can probably tell I am just very sensitive right now, I am tired of crying and being on the edge. He says he stopped talking because he did not know what to say, he truly has never been a big communicator and realizes that he struggles with this, so it was easier for him to stop talking then deal with his feelings, he is still doing this to this day. I felt attacked because instead of talking about his feelings and what was going on in his head he blamed me and how I was, he was constantly telling me what I needed to do to fix the problem but he had nothing to fix. I also felt attacked and maybe that is the wrong word because I could not believe it was so easy for him to pull away.
I am not sure what other information to share, this is all so new to me. I also do not have internet access at home so if I do not respond I am just not at work.
Thanks,
Sorry to see you here ... have a read through my sitch, I see some similarities.
I would highly recommend that you read 'Divorce Remedy' and 'How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It' (you'll learn a lot about communication - I thought I was a good communicator too).
It's not easy, but you need to take a deep breath and step back and start to see the big picture. As hurt and angry as you are right now, those emotions will not help you ... take care of yourself, eat properly, sleep, breathe, mediate, exercise, enjoy your kids and LEARN. Learn about MLC, about communication, about partnership, about YOURSELF.
(((((hm12)))))
PEI
hmom,
your situation sounds like mine except my W was the one to leave.
I WAS like your husband in that I often kept my feeling to myself. I didn't agrue with W and agreed to her view point to stop the tension between us. I was not a good communicator.
But the difference is that your H decided to leave. This is why I think there may be depression or MLC going on.
Have you ever suggested to him to see a doctor?
Until he accepts the fact there may be something wrong there's nothing you can do. Suggested once and leave it alone.
Take care of yourself-----you will hear this over and over .
Question:
Looking at your interaction W him, would you say HE thinks you nagged him?
If so get the book PEI MOM suggest by Pat LOve, it will give you a better understanding about the way men and women perceive things.
I am going away for the weekend so I won't be around until MOnday.
Wo
While my marriage is 100% over and there is nothing I can do about it. He informed me this weekend that our marriage was horrible and he can not believe I did not know this. I really didn't, I mean I knew that I got angry and stuff and showed it but I loved him so much and really thought we would always be together. He informed me that he has not loved me for a long time and now that he is gone it is easier to stay away instead of working on it. Last week he agreed to read divorce busters and I asked him why he agreed to this if he was so set on never working this out and he said that he just wants to keep an open mind on things but that he will never come back. So needless to say today is not a good day.
Gr8, did I nag him? I would honestly say no, I did not have to nag him for any reason, he was always helpful around the house, with the kids and so on, we were true partners, yes there were things about him that would irritate me as there always is but I never nagged him about them, maybe it would have been better if I had.
I do not know how I can work on this when we are not speaking at all and he refuses to go to counselling.
hockeymom,
There are a lot of similarities in our situation. I have one question for you - do you think you have issues with rage? What exactly do you think your contribution has been to your marital discord? What specific things have you done to address the things that will ultimately make you a happier person despite your husband's actions? Not trying to barrage you with questions but trying to understand if perhaps I have any personal experience that might be of value to you.
A
Hmom, let me give you a big hug. Then, take a deep breath, and let it out slowly.
First, your marriage is not over until it is really over....as in divorce final. Then it might not be totally over. You don't have to let go, until you want to.
I suggest that you read the Divorce Busting book, immediately. It is a wonderful tool, for YOU. Not your Husband. Do not insist that he read Divorce Busting because you will be giving away all of your tools and tactics.
I am an old timer on this site, long enough to tell you that Puppy's advise is usually correct. My H began to behave much like yours has. He denied and denied an OW. He and our life turned crazy! And a year later I found out it was an OW. He had lied to everyone...and I still have a hard time believing that.
Anyway, after many months of hard work and the support of wonderful people here, we made it. Lots of tears and more than a few crazy nights...but I finally have my best friend back.
I would suggest that you read everything that you can find about MLC and Infideliety on this board. There are many here with very good advice. You have found a bery supportive and save haven.
Fudwoman,
Do I think I have a problem with rage, yes..I see that now, if I would get upset I would snap on him, the kids whoever. I am now working very hard to fix this and have only had 3 episodes in 7 weeks, which for me is great, I would have them almost everyday. Stress is my trigger and even though I am going through the most stress of my life right now I am aware of my problem and keeping it in check, not to say I am healed, I am not but I am working on it. I think my anger was what I contributed to my marriage falling apart, He says that for years he just put his head in the sand and he cannot do that anymore, so he is speaking up by leaving. I have stopped my kids from being my whole life, that is what I am doing. Our lives were wrapped up in our kids, running them around 7 days a week to the various sports they played and so on, we always put them first, finacially and emotionally, and while they will always be my number 1 priority I am making sure to take time for myself and they are very supportive of this.
If you have anything to share with me I would appreciate it.
1hope,
Thank you for your positive post, I needed that. I am losing hope so fast it is not even funny. I have lost my best friend and I am so lonely. I realize that everyone says not to give up but it seems like most people on here are at least communicating with their spouses, mine will not even entertain the idea, he is done and has shut down. I had hoped that leaving him alone and giving him time would help but it has just proven to him that he is better off without me.
I am not an expert on depression or MLC, but it would seem to me that if these were the case, he'd be WAFFLING more. His certainty, combined with his aggressive re-writing of marital history, suggests to me that there is OW.
In fact, I'd be STUNNED if there weren't.
Puppy
Puppy,
The problem is he is still waffling, this weekend he was having a bad time and this was his response, but everytime he is having a good day and we talk he waffles. This is what I am having trouble with. I know this probably does not make any sense since I started today with it is over and you are right, it probably is an OW, but until I can prove it I cannot get an answer on it. When he is having a good day and I ask him questions like is it over for sure, or do you want me to start the seperation process and he can't answer me, yet on a bad day he very clearly tells me what he is feeling, I am just not sure which personality to believe.
Hi Hockey,
I completely understand about stress triggering blow-ups and about completely neglecting the M because of all of the kid activities (btw - two of mine play hockey as well). The one key helpful tip I received on here which really resonated with me came from Bridgestone who suggested I look at the work of Dr. Steven Stosny. As soon as I read his stuff I knew he was talking about me. Google him and see what you think. He does have a focus on marriage but I'm looking it for myself more in terms of how I can get past my rage issues. Of course the stress of kids and married life and work often trigger anger but I know I have been downright abusive and that if I am honest with myself these patterns extend beyond my marriage. This may not be true for you but for me I am hoping that Dr. Stosny's approach will help me. I pray my marriage will come back stronger than ever but right now that is just an unknown.
Not sure if any of this was helpful but I hope so and my heart goes out to you!
A
So I am having a hard time right now not contacting him. I know it is the right thing to do but all I want to do is call him. So instead I am writing on here....I will never understand how someone can rip their family apart and not even care about the ramifications of this.
When he is having a good day and I ask him questions like is it over for sure, or do you want me to start the seperation process and he can't answer me, yet on a bad day he very clearly tells me what he is feeling, I am just not sure which personality to believe.
I'm not a vet ... but I'm learning fast (have a look at my sitch) and one of the first things you need to do is STOP ASKING QUESTIONS! Think like a lawyer - don't ask questions you don't know the answer to, and don't ask questions if you know the answer but don't want to hear it!
The best advice I could give you right now is: if it pops into your head as what you want to do ... just DON'T! What is going to work is counter-intuitive so it will require conscious effort on your part. The other tip that has helped me a LOT in the last few weeks especially is "only believe 1/2 of what you see and none of what you hear!" ... this has gotten me through many a day!
Right now, you need to focus on you ... eat well, exercise, breathe, meditate, laugh (youtube and America's funniest home videos is good for this!) and love your kids!
I realize that everyone says not to give up but it seems like most people on here are at least communicating with their spouses, mine will not even entertain the idea, he is done and has shut down. I had hoped that leaving him alone and giving him time would help but it has just proven to him that he is better off without me.
same thing happened with my W - zero communication worked and she was only happy when i left her alone.
I am not an expert on depression or MLC, but it would seem to me that if these were the case, he'd be WAFFLING more. His certainty, combined with his aggressive re-writing of marital history, suggests to me that there is OW.
have to say one of the first things i saw as well in your thread - trust your gut and listen to puppy, sadly the man has seen too many of these situations and been right.
Oh yeah ... and the book is called "How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It" by Pat Love and Steven Stosney ... a great read - I even found it useful for dealing with S4!
Another hard day, not sure how I can stay positive at all when he is so closed off. I know that everyone says just give him time but will that really work or do I have to give up?
Just wondering if anyone of you and I am sure there are many have done the one on one couselling through this website. I am pretty strapped for cash so before I go ahead and do this I wondered if it was really worth it. I would do anything to save my marriage but before I invest a bunch of money I would like to hear some feedback.
Thanks,
Hi HM, It sort of seems cliche or fashionable around here to say, "It's an affair." but I'm gonna vote with Puppy on this one. This stinks of affair. If I had to put money down, he is seeing someone at work and he has a pre-paid cell phone. After being around these boards for a few years now, the patterns are amazingly predictable. Even your responses to Puppy's posts are standard issue.
The wife (or husband) is always the last to know as they seem armed with some kind of blinders that keep them from seeing it.
If he is wafffling, you are NOT 100% done. It would be most useful to your situation to absolutely know what you are dealing with.
He has encouraged me to buy a new place and move on and if he decides to come back in the future hopefully I will take him back but he just cannot deal with it right now.
This is something woman seem to say more than men, but interpreted with a bullsh!t filter applied, this means, "I'll be home if the affair doesn't turn out to be all I had thought it would be. Hopefully you'll be waiting around for me."
My husband is asking for time alone with the kids overnight, he wants me to leave the house and he stays there with them. The kids are not excited about this but I am looking for advice on how to handle this situation.
BTW, I've spoken to coach Cheryl and she is fantastic ...
I would say absolutely not. Boundaries are a popular buzz word around here lately...You do not have to be nasty but HE moved out. He does NOT live there any more. Why in gods earth would you leave YOUR house and sleep somewhere else overnight. He left you, now he wants you to make his leaving convenient for him? NO NO NO and NO!!!
He will absolutely be angry about this but if you allow this, it will be the first step in him learning he can come and go as he pleases. Limbo like that can go on for years.
He will tell you, you are keeping him from his kids. He should of thought of that before he left his kids. Do not cave in to guilt or manipulation.
Feeling consequences for his actions will get him thinking. The longer he is out of the house, the better chance you have of getting the house in any settlement. Tell him NO and did I mention tell him NO!
Down,
Thank you so much! My counsellor just told me the same thing and wow did you nail it on the head. He has already done the manipulation thing and telling me that his relationship with the kids is so bad right now because he is not around enough and does not get to send them off to school and such. And of course this is all my fault. He is tired of everyone telling him that he left and these are his consequences but the truth hurts. I have even gotten a second job to ensure I am out of the house at least 2 nights a week and 2 weekends a month so that he can spend time with the kids (as they will not go anywhere with him) so I think I have done my duty, he just made me feel really guilty the other day and that was why I was waivering. So thank you very much.
He is tired of everyone telling him that he left and these are his consequences
Amazing ain't it?
You have more than accommodated him. You have done more than I would and more then he deserves. Feel no guilt.
So I just found out that my husband has just opened a new bank account and I guess it is only a matter of time before he takes away his money and then I have no idea how I am going to pay for anything. I knew this was going to happen but for some reason it has made me start to panic and I do not know how to handle that. I realize that he has to give me support but I need his entire cheque to cover all of our expenses, I guess this step just makes me realize he really is done and is moving on.
Have you met with an attorney yet???
Puppy
I have about 6 weeks ago and techinically he only owes me child support, however then we will lose the house which will only screw him over when he tries to buy a new one. He swears he is not taking his money away anytime soon but I cannot trust that. He may just end up giving me enough to cover the mortgage and that is all which does not help with the rest of the debt we accumulated together!
This is what I came into work to, I am so devastated.
I am e-mailing you with something that you will find very difficult. I went to see my lawyer to start the Separation proceedings, on Tuesday. I would have preferred to discuss this in person with you, however with our latest interaction on Saturday; I believe it would not be in either of our best interests to discuss this that way. Of recent I have been very frustrated about my visitation with the kids, the house sale and our finances. I understand that this is very hurtful topic for you, as well as myself and I am sure you think I am moving too fast on this. However, from our conversation on Saturday I realized certain things will never happen for me if I do not start in this direction. If I am ever going to purchase a house or rent in St.Adolphe, so S10 can attend school there, I have to get things in place that are fair to both of us. I realize that you are not in as much of a rush to sell the house, because you do not have a place to move to or your new home is not ready till October. But I do not want to live with family for the next year and not be able to have a home ( rent or buy )that D15 or S10 can stay with me at.
I would like to be as fair and understanding as possible. I would like to have a Separation Agreement drafted up between you, me and our lawyers. I believe this would be less confrontational of the two options we have and be the less of a financial hit. If you could have a lawyer within the next couple of weeks so that we can set up a meeting time.
My lawyer advised me to discuss with you a time of separation. I would like to suggest that it be December 31, 2009 as this would make more sense during the tax filing time. However it can be the day that I moved out as well.
In no way is this a retaliation attempt to hurt you or to cause you more stress for the weekend, but I feel that I need to move forward. I am hoping that with this we can come to an understanding on a price for the house to hasten the sale, whether it is the options I proposed earlier or just reducing the price. An understanding and dates we share custody of the kids. As well as our finances.
(((HMom)))).
That is a horrible way to start any day.
I know you are extremely upset. You need to gain your composure. You know now the mind set of your H.
, from our conversation on Saturday I realized certain things will never happen for me if I do not start in this direction
He is saying he needs to do this for him.
I think you need to agree with H. Tell him you think it is a great idea to have time apart from each other so you could both work on yourselves.
Hang in there and keep posting
So is it to late for signing up for Divorce busters, should I just let him go.
Sorry to just keep posting nothing but I am really having a hard time right now and any advice would be greatly appreciated.
The one key helpful tip I received on here which really resonated with me came from Bridgestone who suggested I look at the work of Dr. Steven Stosny.
Hi HM,
I want to echo the words above because Stonsy is fantastic. He wrote a book with Dr. Pat Love (yes, that is her real name) called, How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It. It has some significant insights into what make both men and women tick which might be helpful in your situation.
Another thought that came to mind as I was reading through your sitch is that it important to take your mind off the "why" of your situation to the "action" challenge. Meaning, why your husband is behaving as though an alien has landed in his body is less relevant than what you can do do save the marriage. Hopefully, you will get insight on the "why" on down the road, but this might take years. Spinning your wheels on that matter right now takes away valuable time and energy from your true desire: getting him back.
If you haven't already picked up Michele's book, Divorce Remedy, I highly recommend that you do. Furthermore, skip right to page 124, the Last Resort Technique. (it is in chapter 6). This section will give you numerous HELPFUL actions that you can be taking, right now, to give your marriage a chance.
My heart goes out to you and I would love to hear more!
So is it to late for signing up for Divorce busters, should I just let him go.
If you ahve the means to call a coach would suggest doing so.
Until you can honestly let him go you will not be able to handle this process. You we hear this again and again: validate his feelings. Agree to the separation. Give him what he wants right now as long as it does cross our boundaries.
Be pleasent around him and when you talk. Act as If this is the best thing for you two.
I know this is easier said then done.
Breathe and
mentally prepare yourself for the interaction with H.
So is it to late for signing up for Divorce busters, should I just let him go.
Here's what took me a while to 'get':
If you love him unconditionally you have to let him go.
That doesn't mean it's too late to 'divorce bust' ... it just means that this is what HE needs and any attempt to control or manipulate the situation is just that, control and manipulation. By not agreeing you are also not validating his feeling that he needs to do this for himself.
Girlfriend, it is time to turn it inwards and GAL! You can not control him or his decisions or his feelings. You can, however, control you and your life and your choices. Divorce Busting is about personal growth and reflection, becoming the best person you can, for YOURSELF! It may, or may not, save your marriage ... but right now you need to save yourself.
I've discovered that my H is on a journey and I can't speed it up or help him out - but I can slow it down! I need to take care of ME ... and so do you! You need for you to be strong and so do your children! Read through my sitch if you haven't already, and I think you'll see the progression ... pay particular attention to the advice I'm getting from the vets ... like everyone says, it's counter-intuitive but it works!
This is hard! No one said it would be easy, but it sounds to me like you have some reading to do, you've got a ways to go yet before you 'get it', and the fastest way there is through reading and introspection. You are in the right place ... keep reading ...
Breathe .... (((hm12)))
Peace
PEI
SEE YOUR LAWYER BEFORE YOU AGREE TO ANYTHING, Hockeymom. I don't trust your husband (the note is all about him, and what HE needs), and the "back-dating the date of separation" thing sends of a huge red flag to me.
I'm very sorry, I know this is like a blow to your gut. But this thing is FAR from over (unless YOU want it to be). Still lots of cards to play.
Puppy
I echo Puppy. You are in the first stage which is SHOCK. During this phase you do not make any important decisions without getting 3rd party help. Find a good attorney and start protecting yourself. These threats are empty. Your WAH has no clue what he is getting into. His attorney on the other hand does this for a living and deals w this everyday. They make money dragging this process out.
If you don't agree to anything then it will take at least 2 years depending on where you live. The first thing a judge will
do is have you both figure out a custody/co-parenting agreement. The court is really only concerned about the kids for the first part.
So talk to an attorney you like and trust. Dont move out. DOnt believe anything your WAH says and only half of what he does.
Just tell him that you are sorry this is happening and that he feels that way, BUT you dont believe in tearing apart your family and will do what you have to do to protect it. Then tell him to do what he NEEDS to do.
Use this time to figure out what you need to work on. If you feel you have an anger problem then get help. Use this time to work on you.
As mentioned above, no matter what you can't stop your H from doing what he wants but you can protect yourself and not rollover.
This is a long process and it can go as fast or as slow as you want.
Stay strong. PMA
And I absolutely agree ... if he's got a lawyer then you NEED one too! Protect yourself and your children ... let him go emotionally, but do not agree to anything without counsel ...
(((hugs)))
Thanks for the advice everyone. I will look into the books that were suggested.
Sending you strength, Hockeymom. I think the advice you have been given is very good. You will be ok and you can handle this.
((hugs))
Even though I am surrounded by family this weekend all I can think about is my H, I miss him so much and today all I want to do is curl up and cry, I have not spoken to him since Friday and neither have our kids, they do not want to contact him at all. I cannot believe this happening to me and I just want him to come home. I started to read DR and while it makes complete sense to me, I just do not see how I am ever going to get him to try. Does leaving them alone really work because I just do not see that, in my case it seems to reinforce him leaving.
Just wondering if anyone has any words or advice or encouragement on my last post, sorry to be so needy I just cannot help it I am very lonely.
Hi Hockeymom,
I'm right there sitting in that boat with you. I completely understand what you're saying and I too am having a tough time envisioning how everything I'm doing could possibly result in a shift in our M. What I am trying to keep in mind is that I'm making the changes I'm making for me and for my kids. Regardless of what happens with my marriage - I need to grow in this way. That said - there is nothing wrong with being sad - the situation we find ourselves in IS sad. The key is to realize that emotions come and go - they change - they constantly change. Sadness and loneliness always feels like it's going to last forever but it doesn't. Try your best to just watch it but not be consumed by it. Do whatever you can to remind yourself of what I'm going to call core truths - Here's a a link to a great video that makes me weep but also rings true inside and somehow makes me have faith in the wisdom of whatever is true in this moment even if it doesn't feel good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVx6H68SiwwHugs to you!
A
I just do not see how I am ever going to get him to try. Does leaving them alone really work because I just do not see that, in my case it seems to
If feels awkward to you, it is most likely the right thing to do.
I'm going to tell you there is nothing you can say to make him open his eyes. You need to show him you are OK with this decision and that he's the one losing you.
Being curled up in a ball doesn't sound attractive to me.
Live eac day for you.
I know it's hard I have been where you are now.
I can honestly say life is so much better when you get pass this point.
I came acroos this nugget of wisdom today by Ben Franklin:
"You win only if you aren't afraid to lose"Right now you are afraid.
gr8
Does leaving them alone really work because I just do not see that, in my case it seems to reinforce him leaving.
Hi HM, I am so pleased that you picked up DR!! I think it will be an excellent playbook for you and will give you hope in the dark times.
I can completely understand why giving your H space seems like it will reinforce him leaving. Backing away when the one we love so dearly is utterly counter-intuitive. However, it does increase your odds of restoring the relationship.
Let me quote one section for you. I have found this to be true time and time again with my own clients:
"One of the things that happens when you chase your spouse is that you take the focus off your failing marriage and crumbling family and put the spotlight right on you. Your spouse gets so annoyed at your that getting rid of you is the only thing he thinks about. Your persistence is robbing your spouse of the opportunity to reflect on what is really happening in your lives right now. Because anger is the only emotion your spouse is feeling, it prevents him from having feelings of sadness, grief, guilt, remorse or other emotions that help your cause."
I encourage you to keep reading, keep trying the principles, and keep your chin up!
erynfaye,
Thanks for your post and the quote, I have not gotten to that part yet. I am going to follow this practice, I am just so concerned that it is too late, for 15 weeks I have pushed and done everything wrong and now I just do not see how this can change his mind when he is so far away and so angry, but I guess I have nothing else left to try and nothing else worked so why the heck not!
Sorry for the long post!
So I wonder why people play mind games!!! I have asked for no contact from my stbxh unless it is in regards to the kids and urgent. He was following this pretty good and I did not have to see him. Until last night, our s10 had baseball and did not want his father to take him so I was going to. My H asked me when I would be leaving and when I would be back, as this is our arrangement, he is only at the house visiting our d15 if I am not there. However yesterday he shows up a half hour early and takes me completely off guard. I do not react and just act normal around him. I then leave with my son thinking well he will be gone when I get back so I made it through seeing him and did not beg for his return. However I get home 20 minutes later than I initially told him and he is still there. Now granted he is trying to repair his relationship with our son, however he knows I do not want to see him and there was no reason for him to stick around. I went about doing laundry and stuff in our basement, he comes downstairs and just starts talking about stuff in general, things I needed to know but not right then or face to face. He then goes upstairs and I tell him to throw down my housecoat (I was going to throw what I was wearing in the washing machine). He does not do this so I ask him again, from the bottom of the stairs as I obviously cannot walk upstairs if he is there in just my underwear. My son then runs down the stairs before my H and instead of just throwing my housecoat down he starts to come downstairs!!! My son stops him and says you do not get to come down here. Now I am fully covered so it is not inappropriate for my son to see me but not necessarily the man who left me! Not sure what he was thinking. We then went back upstairs and I sat at the table looking at photo albums that my daughter was using for a project. I commented on how young he looked and he responded so do you, he then said good night to all of us and left, I said good night but was laughing and acting like it did not bother me at all that he was leaving. I was so proud of myself and felt so good, I did not even cry after he was gone.
About 10 minutes after this I was on the phone with my cousin and my daughter comes in to the room and says Dad texted me and wants you to call him, while I was busy and not about to jump to his request so I kept talking. 5 minutes later she comes back and says Dad just called and got very angry that you were on the phone and not calling him back as well he was questioning who I was talking to. At this point I ended up calling him back and just acted like he had not just freaked out on our daughter and he just had a simple question that did not need to be answered, so I am not sure why he was in such a panic for me to get back to him, but I did not comment, I answered his question and said good night and hung up.
So what the heck is going through his mind, I am not naive enough to think he is waivering or that anything he did last night had to do with me but it was just very strange, especially since we have not seen each other in a bit and I have not indicated to him that he was welcome back in the house whenever he felt like it. Was he just testing me to see if I would freak out so that he can justify that him leaving is the right thing to do?
Hi HM ... here's the thing ... you can't read his mind and there is no way to know wat was going through his head. Even if he COULD tell you he WOULDN'T. There are so many possible scenarios and over-analysing his every move and thought will drive you crazy! Have you read the detachement info yet? Here is the link:
Detachment. Read and reread it ...
This sucks. I know. But it gets easier and the faster you wrap your head around concepts like Detachment, the faster it gets easier.
((((hugs))))
PEI
I am not naive enough to think he is waivering or that anything he did last night had to do with me but it was just very strange, especially since we have not seen each other in a bit and I have not indicated to him that he was welcome back in the house whenever he felt like it. Was he just testing me to see if I would freak out so that he can justify that him leaving is the right thing to do?
HM. WAS will always try to justify there action because of the way you act.
They expect you to respond a ceratin way and when you don't, it confuses them.
This is why is was probably angry.
Now he's wondering who you are talking to. Nice. Sounds like he's panicking a bit.
Stay strong.
Gr8
So another confusing night in my household and I really do not even know how to describe it but I will try. I had to meet H at the mall so he could take our s10 home while I went to an appt with our d15, this could have been a simple exchange of meeting him outside and really having no contact at all, however he decided to come into the mall and meet us on our way out. So I acted normal and like nothing was wrong and then just left with our d15 when we got to our vehicles, he seemed fine during this time.
Once I returned home he was still there, so I went into the house and changed into my walking clothes, I grabbed my ipod and water and started to head out, during this time we had a quick conversation about our d15's ball schedule. I could tell something was bothering him, as I was leaving to go for my walk he left at the same time, I said to him are you okay today and he said he was just tired so I told him to have a good night and I put my music on and started to walk. He then pulled up beside me and this is when it started, at first he started yelling at me for something my dad had done, this upset me because my parent's have been very supportive and all that I have as support during this time and he did not need to attack my dad like that, during this I stayed somewhat calm and refused to start yelling and prove to him that I am not changing. So after he had his say I put my headphones and and started to walk again, however as he drove away I was so frustrated that I raised my arms in frustration and this caused him to stop his truck and yell at me are you F****** kidding me, I walked up to him and said in a somewhat calm voice that he was not aware of all the facts in regards to my Dad and that he needed to stop being so sensitive, during this exchange he got teary eyed. I then asked him if he liked taking out his stress on me, I had not done anything to provoke him tonight, I had left him alone, no questions and was trying to be nice to him even though I did not want any contact with him. He then went into another complaint because I had spent money on the kids for clothes and this upset him off because he has no spending money, cannot put gas in his vehicle or eat, at this point I said can I say something to you and he responded, yes I know I left so it is all my fault, to which I replied, no what I was going to say is that the kids still need items and I will not apologize for buying those, however what he needs to realize is that we could not afford to drive 2 vehicles every where we go when we were together, this is why we carpooled, so what does he think would be different now that he has left. During this exchange he was crying. This seemed to hit him as if he had never thought of it that way. After this he calmed down and I touched his face and said have a good night, he smiled and said you too. I put my music on again and started walking away.
I think the fact that he sees that I am okay without him might be getting to him, not that he is regretting his decision or anything but that he does not understand what is going on.
Is it weird to feel like maybe I am better off without him or is this just another stage?
had spent money on the kids for clothes and this upset him off because he has no spending money, cannot put gas in his vehicle or eat, at this point I said
This is where he needs to step up and do something for himself.
IMO, say to him: You have a choice to continue down this road you're on or step up and do something to change the situation.
It really comes down to that. Ask questions such as, would you like to provide more for your kids?? Him-yes. What are you doing to achieve this?
If you feel comfortable saying this put it out there in a loving concerned fashion.
Is it weird to feel like maybe I am better off without him or is this just another stage?
You will feel this quite often. It's part of detaching.
Your happiness is self fulfilling.
I remember saying to my W during one of our chats:
"You don't need me and I don't need you."
Keep up the good work!
f your H is tearing up during convos that's a good sign.
It shows he does feel that he's losing you.
Thanks Gr8, I truly appreciate you posting on my situation.
So yesterday I had my first session with a DB counsellor, it was awesome, she just reinforced what I was already starting to do and gave me some pointers on how to not be dragged into a fight with H when he tries to provoke me. I had limited contact with H yesterday but it is funny, we communicate through emails and then he call me to reiterate what he has told me in the email, not sure why he does this but maybe just his way of still connecting. He wanted a real estate agent to come out to the house on Saturday and I told him that I was not sure I could get the house in tip top shape by then and his response was, well get the kids to help you, you have all night tonight, to which I replied no I actually don't I am going out tonight, he did not say anything after that! So I went out with friends last night and had a great time.
I replied no I actually don't I am going out tonight, he did not say anything after that! So I went out with friends last night and had a great time
YES, YES, YES! Good stuff!
Go with the flow and don't let things about the house and realtor bother you.
You're doing well.
So tonight is not an easy night, I had some contact with H, he was in a really bad mood and trying to instigate fights again, not as bad as the other night but just little comments. I did not react, answered positively and then left the room. I still do not know why he is showing up when I am at the house as I have asked him not to but I refuse to comment on it. I then went to work and he left with the kids. So I am now back from work and H has s10 for the night and d15 is at a friends. So I am a bit lonely and stuck cleaning the house for the realtor that is coming tomorrow as H did very little before he left for the night. So just thought I would come on here, voice how I am feeling and then get on with my night!
Ss last nights anxiety ran into today. I was doing so good and then the sight of H today set me into a panic. I miss him and love him so much. The good part is that I did not show my panic, I stayed upbeat, happy and we generally had good conversations while he was at the house. He then sent me a text in the afternoon questioning the charge on our CC for DB sessions. This upset me since his biggest frustration right now is money, I was hoping he wouldn't see it since he does not get the bills but I guess he is checking them online now. I just told him it was something I needed and would pay it off with my money not our joint money, he left it but I was in a panic about how angry he was so I called him!!! I know the wrong thing but I did not bring this up at all, all I asked him was when he was going to be at the house the next day, he asked why and if I needed something which gave me an excuse for why I phoned him so he did not think I was worried about his text I told him that yes I needed a few groceries and since he is in the city (and I am not) it would great if he could pick them up and he said yes. That was the end of our contact for today. Hopefully tomorrow will be better.
So today was a better day. H showed up 20 minutes earlier than he said he was going to, not trying to read into this but by doing this we saw each other. He brought the groceries so I thanked him nicely and we had very good 20 minutes together, just talking about nothing. When it was time for me to leave I said goodbye to him on the go and told him to have a nice time at his parent's as well I told him I would see him the next day at our daughter's sporting event. I took the time to say goodbye to the kids and left. H then called me at work as someone wanted to come see the house ASAP and he was not there, so I ran home quickly cleaned and went back to work. When H and the kids got back from his parent's they were locked out of the house (my fault) I thought he would be livid but he wasn't at all. He then called me at work again later on and said hi this is your husband (he has not said this since he left, he always uses his name), I did not react as I am not sure it means anything I just said hi, he then passed the phone to my son who was not happy to be with his father and wanted me to deal with their conflict. I did not get in the middle just told my son to go to bed if he wanted to be left alone.
So after a few positive things happen I am back down into believing it is totally over. I walk into work and have an email from him asking who our RRSP's are through and he would only need to do this if he is starting legal action. I know he told me he was going to do this but then we talked and he said he would wait and we would work it out together, however he has not brought it up again and I will not as this is his issue to push. So is he going behind my back once again. I answered his question but asked him why he needed to know and all he said was I just wanted to know. So I guess I am in for some more bad news. I think I am better off just giving up. I try so hard to be nice to him and it does not matter to him. I do not know how long I can do this.
Here I am again documenting my day and the things that have happened, now I realize it may seem like I am using this site as more of a journal but that is not the case, I am documenting the things that happen so I can go back and see the positives and negatives but I am also hoping for feedback from the Vets because I am not sure if I am just wanting to see improvement so much that I am imagining it. Anyways here was my day. After the above post H and I had some other email contact in regards to the house and kids, no phone contact at all. Our D15 had a ringette game so we were going to see each other there but no matter what I was not going to approach him, so I made sure I was sitting in the stands with the other parents before he even got there. I saw him come in and stand across the arena from us and I figured that was where he was going to stay. However much to my suprise he came over to where we were sitting and actually sat beside me! I was shocked, we had been at our son's hockey games in the last few weeks and he would not even stand anywhere near me. I did not react to him sitting beside me, I just said hi and we had some nice conversation about our house, he told me about this fight with our S10 the previous night, as well we talked about his work. When the game ended he left first and when I walked into the lobby I sat away from him, within a couple of minutes he was standing across from me and a mutual friend stood beside him, the 3 of us talked a bit, and I was also talking to a mother beside me, but one time when I looked over at him I caught him watching me, he quickly looked away. So while I do not want to read into this too much, it could just be that we will have a good "divorced" relationship I am hopeful that in time he will remember the good parts of our marriage.
Does anyone have any feedback on my posts? Just looking for some advice, is he playing games or can I trust that it might be working?
Hey Hmom.
Try not to read too much into his actions. It's good that you can be friendly at functions about your kids. Take that for what it's worth.
This will be a gradual transition if and when it happens. Working on being friends first, that's the first step.
I know you feel like giving up but don't. Keep working on yourself and you will feel better regardless of the outcome.
Be strong and positive.
I find myself smiling more now-a-days., it puts me in a good mood.
try it.
So yesterday I had no contact with H all day, I try and leave the first contact each day to him and he usually does at least send me an email but yesterday there was nothing, he then only showed up at the house to pick up S10 at the last possible minute he could have, we did not talk more than 20 words to each other but I stayed upbeat, did not ask him how he was doing (it was obvious he was having a bad day) and just left for work without even saying goodbye. 2 steps forward, 1 step back.
2 steps forward, 1 step back.
This is still progress!
You sensed he was having a bad day so I'm sure he wasn't in the mood for chit chat.
Stay upbeat!
So today was much like yesterday, I had to email H about the kids and did not get a response. I ended up calling him as we got some disapointing news about our house and I wanted to know what our plan was, he seemed upbeat and was very nice, so I made sure I did not talk long, stuck to the point for my call and was very upbeat as well. He ended up telling me in this conversation the answer to my question in my email I sent him. He then ended ujp calling me a bit later to ask what time our daughter needed to be at ball and to confirm what time I worked, he knew the answers to these questions so I find it funny that he still relies on me to ensure he needs to know where he has to be and when. Fast forward to later on this evening and I do not know what happened but he was back to being distant. Any contact we had was brief and tense on his end. Apparently his night with the kids ended with him yelling at our son because of the attitude he is getting from him. He does not seem to understand that the kid is hurt and angry and this is how he is showing it. Our S10 does not act this way towards anyone else but my H does not see it.
I went to a MC for the first time today and basically was given the same advice as DR so I will continue doing what I am doing and not worry so much about how my H is acting. He needs to work through his stuff on his own. I just have to stay upbeat, keep care of my kids and take care of myself.
Can anyone tell me how to change the title of my thread? Do I need to start a new one? If so how do I add what I have previously written?
Thanks,
Can someone tell me if I am doing something wrong on here? I started off getting alot of responses and advice and I just wondered if there is a reason this has stopped? Not trying to be needy and I appreciate the people who are responding I just want to make sure I am doing everything the right way.
I hate the days when you get that feeling in your stomach, when you feel like crying all the time and the panic, it is taking all of my strength not to contact him and say I love him and want him back, I wish these days would go away forever.
Hi HM
I've been reading along & you have been getting good advice & seem to have been "doing" the things you should.
"Feeling" as you do is normal (crying, desiring things back, etc).. how you act on it right now with a WAH is to GAL, journal, act as if, etc.
As far as getting more responses.. read other people's threads, find ones that resonate with you, contribute support & encouragement.. find some 'friends', and hang out & help them out, and you will get what you are seeking too.
You tend to get what you put into it.
Peace
Bridge
HM, stay strong and remember to continue to do what works.
Many posts on this forum, so sometimes people may take more time to respond to you.
Take care of your kids and yourself.
I have found by participating in other threads it helps gain a tremendous amount of perspective to your own situation.
It can be overwhelming, I know. One day at at time and take care of you!
I give up, I am sorry I just cannot do this anymore, I get hope and then H crushes it. Yesterday we had 2 phone conversations and a text conversation and he seemed fine, I then walk in to work this morning and go to the bank account to find that he has removed his money, (he has talked about this but we never finalized anything) So I wait until I calm down and ask him to call me, when he does he is rude and stand offish, acting like I knew this was coming, to which I replied, we talked about it but you said we would meet face to face and you never approached the subject again so I was blindsided. I stayed calm but I was crying. He just kept pushing me that I was asking for too much money from him and why did I need that much. I tried to explain it but he just does not want to even hear it, he just does not want to be responsible anymore. I then told him that I would like to remove him from our joint account since I cannot see what he is doing then I do not think he should be able to see what I am spending my money on, he said he would not agree for this to happen. At this point I stopped what I was doing told him that I was done having the conversation as it was not going in a positive direction and I told him to have a great day and ended the conversation. He then sent me an email telling me he had transferred the funds.
So I have had a couple of conversations with H today, the drama of the morning is gone, I still have no hope but at least we are talking nicely to each other. I told him that this is what I wanted, to just get along, I did not say I love him or ask for him back, I just said that I liked the way we had been getting along and did not want that to stop, he agreed.
So tonight went well, I made a few errors but I am trying. I went for a walk when I got home from work and H showed up at the house to cut the grass, when I got back I asked him if he wanted pizza with us and he said sure. He was going to take S10 to his parent's for the weekend so he was in a bit of a rush to get the grass cut and head out. He was in and out of the house and things were good, somewhat normal. There was a problem with our order and he called to complain, when he was done (here is where I screw up) I laughed at his reaction and gave him a kiss on the cheek and told him he was funny. He just shook his head. Our son's plans ended up getting cancelled so H ended up just hanging out at the kitchen table with me and we just talked. Not about anything to do with our relationship but just general stuff. He ended up staying for an extra half hour at least and then he got up to leave. I just said goodbye and let him go. I ended up having to call him to ask how to boost our sons quad, he helped me through it patiently and was quite nice the entire evening. I do not take this as hope but at least we are getting along better.
So today H did not come to D15 baseball as he had the flu. We had some conversation via text message and one phone call to discuss what was going to happen with our s10 as I was to be going out and before H got sick he was going to take him. He told me that he would be at our place for 4:30 to pick up S10. He then called again at 4:00 to say this again, I just said okay but I will be sleeping, if you want to peak your head in to say hi that is fine. I did not think he would at all. He ended up doing this and for some reason I woke up so we talked for a few minutes about D15 baseball and how he was feeling. I told him to take care of himself (he has been sick more times than I can count since he left). He then sent me a text to tell me that his phone was dying and since he was at his parent's he did not have his charger but he would be charging his phone later on when he got back to his brother's (where he is staying) I found this odd because he does not tell me things like this anymore and while I was suppose to contact him about baseball game times for tomorrow I would have only sent a text and not expected a response.
So I am going to take this as a positive, while he is not going to come home at least we are getting along better and in the long run maybe it will pay off.
So I broke one of the rules today and cried in front of H. He showed up at baseball today and we sat in the same area and joked and talked. After baseball I went grocery shopping and he took the kids home as he had to cut the grass. I came home and started cleaning the house and just him being around got me in a panic. I managed to keep it under control and keep my emotions in check until he went to leave. He said good bye to the kids and was not lingering at all today. He did however come into the kitchen to tell me he was leaving and I said that I would follow him out because I needed to give him the MC's card. Outside he started talking about our week and what was going to happen. Our son has a baseball game on Wednesday and technically it is H's night. I asked him that if I could catch a ride with a friend of ours if he minded if I was at the game, he said sure and I can drive you home, I said I could catch a ride both ways, he then said you can come with us both ways as well. At this point I was crying a bit but managed to get it under control, we started talking about other things and then he brought up Wednesday again and said I could go with them. I said that I did not want to intrude with his time with our son and that I was sure he did not want to spend all that time with me. He laughed and said it was fine, he was totally fine with me going with them. At this time I really started to cry and ended up hugging him quickly and kissing him on the cheek. It was a very quick hug but he did put his arm around me. I then said okay you have to go now and have a great night and went into the house. So while I did show emotion I did not beg him to talk about our relationship or tell him I love him, I guess that is something? Also can I please get some advice on if I should go with him on Wednesday? This would be more time together I just do not know if it is smart.
So another curve ball, I come into work to an email from H asking if I can call him, I do and leave him a message. He gets back to me an hour later, he says that he cannot get into the bank account online, this is because I got a new bank card, so I give him the information he needs, and here is the curve ball he then asks if he can start staying at the house every second weeekend with the kids, he then throws at me that if he is going to be paying for stuff still he is entitled to this and that if he wanted to throw my stuff on the front porch and lock the doors he could and it would be a fight for me to get back in, he would not do this he says he is just trying to prove a point. I was very taken aback but did not react angrily. I asked him if this was coming from his lawyer or him and he said him. He cannot go on living like he is and not seeing his kids. He wants to spend quality time with them without me around, he does not want to chit chat with me and does not want the kids to get false hope that we will get back together because that is never going to happen. I have no idea what to do. I was quite shocked because yesterday was a really good day, it almost seems like after a good day he gets freaked out and has to do something to push me. I mean I want to be accomodating however our kids do not want him to spend the night and I do not want to leave my kids but I would rather not use lawyers at this point!
So I had an emergency session with my coach today as I was just feeling helpless. She helped me realize that H is acting predictable and is doing things for a certain reason. I can only hope that H falls into the category that eventually realizes they made a mistake and he decides to work on it. She gave me some great suggestions on how to deal with the above situation, which I followed and the situation has completely been diffused. We have agreed to talk to a counsellor and ensure we do this the right way. I think he is starting to think that maybe this was the wrong path but his stubborness will not allow him to admit that in even the smallest way. I guess we will see how tonight goes.
I wonder when H will realize that he is the one initiating contact with me all the time and what he would do if I just stopped answering. Maybe I should try it. Last night I asked my D15 to get H's credit card number as I needed to order something for her. He then called me to ask if he could get it to me today, I said sure just email it to me, to which he replied while call me in the morning and I will email it to you then. Why did I need to call him, the only reason would be to have contact. So I did not I just emailed him and asked for it, not 5 minutes later he called to ask how S10 was as he was ill yesterday. I am maintaining contact with him as this is what my coach suggests but I think I am going to start being selective on when I answer.
I just opened my own bank account, sent my lawyer a deposit and here we go I guess, I just did not appreciate being threatened on Monday with my stuff being thrown out of the house if I do not allow him to spend weekends with the kids while I stay somewhere else. Why does he not realize that these are the consequences of him leaving and that I am not being vindictive or stubborn, I just do not see why I have to be put out to make his life better.
If anyone has any advice on how to handle my next post that would be great.
I got home last night and H was right behind me, we were suppose to go to ball together but I had decided that was not a good idea. He kept asking why I wasn't going with him and I just said we can talk about it later. So later on I was in my room when he came back, he came in and said do you want to talk to me, to which I replied no I do not have anything to say other than thank you for the offer to drive me to ball I just did not fell up to it tonight. At this point he says have you given any more thought to me spending every second weekend here with the kids, I said no I want to talk to my lawyer and counsellor first. This is where is all goes to hell, he then gets upset that I will not give him anything and he deserve stuff and he has a seperation agreement written up and wants me to sign it. I tell him I am not ready for this, I am not ready to give up on our marriage. As he is leaving I ask him for a hug and he holds on so tight, I then ask him the OW question again and he says since we have split up I have been on 2 dates with 2 different women, one for 45 minutes and coffee and the other one out for drinks, while my son hears this and goes ballistic after his father leaves but that is a different story. At this point I remain calm but tell him I am hurt by this. I do not beg for him back at any point in this conversation but I do tell him I love him as he is leaving and he turns around as if he wants to say something but does not. Before this whole conversation he accidently called me honey.
So we fast forward to today and he calls me and we end up on this topic again, he wants the kids, they do not want to see him alone and I am the witch who is keeping him away from them and turning them against him. I inform him that our son heard him the night before to which he replies for crying out loud I am not seeing anyone I went on 2 akwards dates and realized I am not ready for that yet. At this point he goes on to say that since I am not open to signing the seperation agreement he is not open to going to the MC anymore, why should he give me something if I will not give on anything. At this point I reply so this is a test, if I give on some stuff you will say I am changing but if I don't then you are done? He replies no, there is even a clause that if we get back together then the seperation agreement is null and void, I cannot even say what is going to happen with us, we might get back together.
So what I need advice on is how do I handle this, I know I have to take the agreement to my lawyer and I will be doing that but do I ask him to at least work on our marriage or do I continue with the 180 and just act like it is not bothering me. I am also having a hard time with leaving the house, the kids do not want me to and I do not get why I have to be put out for him.
Thanks for reading.
I cannot keep up with the mood swings. So after this morning he tries to get a hold of me and I do not answer, he finally leaves a voice mail and it says that he is planning on taking the kids out for dinner and wants to invite me to join them!!! What the heck??? This is after he tells me that he needs to spend time with the kids alone and does not want to see or talk to me anymore. I call him back and leave a message thanking him for the invite but telling him that I have running around to do after work so to enjoy his time with the kids. He then calls me back to talk about nothing at all, I cannot even remember the conversation.
As well I still do not have the separation papers, he has not emailed them to me as I requested.
Do not ask your H for hugs or tell him ILU, both are pursuit.
Do not ask H for separation papers. He will send them when he wants to.
Thanks City girl, I am waiting on the papers, I did not request them initially just after him hounding me to read them I told him to send them and he has not.
I also understand the hugging and saying I love you and that was the first time I did it in over 2.5 weeks and last night when I saw him I did not do it, I am back on track!
Last night he dropped off our son and left very quickly, he kept looking at me like he expected me to say something or ask for something but I did not. He then said to our S10 that he had to go because he was meeting someone, my son was like oh right, H then looked at me and then back at our son and said remember I am meeting and then he names a male friend of his, almost like he had to clarify to me that he was not going on a date or anything like that, all I said was good bye and have a great time. He then ran out of the house very quickly.
We should not have any contact until Sunday as the kids are away this weekend and there is no reason for him to call me.
So today H contacted me at 3:30, he asked me if I had my son with me, I found this funny for 2 reasons, one technically I should have still been at work, however maybe he actually remembered that our D15 had a hair appt, I doubt it but maybe, the second reason this was funny is because he knew our son was leaving for the weekend straight from school, so he had no reason to contact me at all. He then goes on to say don't forget about the open house on Sunday, to which I reply, yeah I like how I have to clean the house all by myself, he then says get the kids to help you, they however are gone all weekend and I work and I am stuck cleaning as well.
Tonight I have no kids and it would have been a great date night so I am finding it a little tough but I have no desire to call him and talk to him or cry so I guess I have managed to get to another level in this process.
So I contacted H last night to ask him to come to the house early to finish up some stuff for the open house that I was not going to be able to get to, of course he did not answer, so I just left a quick message asking him if he would be able to do what I asked and then told him to text me his answer. I never heard from him so 45 minutes later I checked his voicemail and my message was not on there. I assumed he was waiting for me to keep trying to contact him as that is what I would have done in the past when I did not hear from him but I did not do this. Then this morning I was at work and H shows up at my work, he asks me when I called him as he did not get my message until this morning, I tell him when and drop the subject, I am not sure what to believe, maybe his cell phone did act up but I do not think so. Anyways he goes on to talk about other stuff and then leaves to go to the house.
When I get home I just go into my room to change so that I can go for a walk, he doesn't want me around when he is here so I thought I would leave again. He catches me in the kitchen and starts talking about the open house and this and that, after 5 minutes I leave the house and as I am leaving he yells out good bye, so I replied back to him good bye. As I was walking he pulls up beside me and proceeds to talk about stuff that he did not need to talk to me about right away, I find it funny for someone who does not want to chit chat with me how he initiates it all the time. After a couple of minutes I put my headphones back on and say good bye and walk away.
So I managed to not break any rules today but I am having another crying day. He keeps asking our D15 to move in with him and this upsets me and then apparently he is calling me his ex-wife to everyone who came to the house today, both of these hit me like a ton of bricks.
So Monday night I come home and H is there (this was planned) everything seemed fine, he was in a good mood and I just went about getting ready to go to baseball. I then asked him if he was planning on going to a party that we had on Saturday for our d15's ringette team, he replied no, that was fine, I then said will you be keeping our s10? He hesitated and then said yes, about 10 minutes later he said that he actually had plans on Saturday and what time would I be home, this set me off, not because he had plans but because he whines and cries that he never sees his kids yet when he can he is busy. After about 10 mintes of arguing about this he tells me that I need to plan stuff better to which I reply, you knew about this party and if you were not going you knew our son was not going either and that one of us had to be with him. He said that this is why he wants set days to have the kids so that he can plan stuff on the days he does not have them. I told him I was tired of his mixed messages (meaning I want the kids but then does not take them when he can) He took this as mixed messages about us getting back together and said if I do not elaborate on answers to you I am a jerk but if I am nice then we are getting back together. I finally left because it was better than staying and getting stomped on and blamed for everything as well as reacting in the wrong way.
About an hour later after a long walk I ended up at the ball game and he was there, as I was getting my stuff from my vehicle he left his truck. I stopped him and said the following. I said I just wanted to apologize for getting angry earlier, that was not my intention, I am obviously having trouble with the seperate parenting thing, I assumed we would continue to divide and conquer when it came to our kids since we always did this when we were together and it worked and the kids schedules have not changed so there is a need for both of us to still be available for the kids. He accepted my apology and then I said when you insulted my planning skills that really hurt, since I am great at planning our schedule, he said he did not mean it the way it came out and that yes he was aware of the party but thought that even if he went he could still go out, he then started to explain where he was going, I stopped him and said that is none of my business and I do not need to know I just did not expect you to pick plans over your kids as this is not how it has worked in the past. He realized this and apologized again. I then went into what I meant about the mixed messages, I said I am fully aware that we are not getting back together but I want to have a good relationship as I am tired of fighting, I think this took him by surprise. He then went on to say that he was still going to go to the MC as he wanted to meet with him, I said that is great, I think he can really help you out with somethings you are working on and I understand that he is not going to the MC for us, to which he replied that he was going for us as well as other reasons.
So yesterday I had no contact with him at all and he did not contact the kids either.
Today he called me right in the morning to discuss the plan for tomorrow night (who takes which kid) I told him it was up to him as it did not matter where I went, he was in a very good mood. I then ended the conversation saying goodbye and I will talk to you tomorrow. Just leaving him with the impression that I do not expect to talk to him all the time anymore.
I forgot to mention that he asked me when I was going to my lawyer since I had said I was going to go see her this week, I replied while you said alot of things to, I meant this in regards to the separation agreement but did not want to ask him for it. He figured out I meant the separation agreement and said I have it I can send it to you, to which I replied I do not want it, but there is no point in going to my lawyer without the agreement. He still has not sent it to me.
So last night H showed up at 5:00, I did not leave my room until 5:30 and then it was to just get ready for work. He seemed a bit upset about something but he said he was fine. He had gone to the MC that day so I am sure he was thinking hard about some choices he has made. The only thing he shared with me was some advice he was given on how to deal with our S10 as there is alot of anger there. I did not ask how it went but he did say he was going back in 2 weeks. The 20 minutes we were around each other were good, nice and light, friendly and no major conversation.
Yesterday H called me in the morning to discuss his sister's upcoming visit. He wanted to know how much he could have the kids and such. I told him he could have the kids whenever he wanted as they do not get to see his sister and her kids often. I think he was surprised by this. Also again I found it funny that he called me about this as we were going to see each other that evening and he could have just waited until then to discuss this.
Last night H came to the house to pick up our D15 for her sporting event, he asked our S10 to go with him and then asked me if this was ok, I said sure, I told him to go with you. He then goes onto explain that when he gets back he will just have to drop the kids off and run as he is going out with a friend, he even told me who. I replied thanks for letting me know I appreciate it but you do not have to explain yourself to me. He looked confused by my statment.
So now on to today, I have had no contact with H as of yet however he still has not transferred the money he is suppose to transfer to me on payday so this is where I need advice, I am sure he is doing this so I have to call and ask him but I really do not want to, should I or just wait until Monday and figure it out then?
So I just heard from H and his first comment was so you opened your own bank account, I replied yes. So he said while how much do I have to give you, I told him (he knows this!) He said okay but you keep paying the visa then, I replied that was always my plan you are the one who said you would pay it.
He then says I know you do not want to talk about this at work but can I send you the separation agreement? I said that is up to you, he said well that way you have it and can give it to your lawyer. He is really wanting to stay at the house every second weekend on his own and I will not allow this so I guess he thinks if he sends me the agreement than I have to agree to it.
You know what though, him bringing up the separation agreement did not upset me as much as it has in the past.
So I have gotten the separation papers and while I did cry I did not cry as much as I thought I would when I got these. I sent H my changes to the document and have not heard back from him as of yet.
I think this may be my last post on here. It does not appear to be working for my situation and while it has helped my stbxh and I get along it will not work to fix our marriage. We had a huge talk last night about everything and he has not loved me for years and just cannot ever see getting past it. He is not open to falling back in love with me at all he would rather be alone.
So I thank everyone who helped me on here and wish you all the best.
Hmom.
I have lost all hope too but still come around here. Remember just b/c M wasn't saved doesn't mean you are not successful(see my tagline). Come back and continue to journal. I said the same thing 3 months ago.
Gr8
So I am completly devastated today, I do not know why I cannot stop crying. I was doing so good and then it all fell apart when I realized he really is not coming back ever. He is dating all the time now and does not see himself with me ever again and this just kills me. Why can't I just move on.
I am still sick to my stomach about the thought of him with this other woman, why is he doing this to me and better yet why is she, yes we were not close friends but I would not even do this to an aquaintance, are there not suppose to be rules. I am so tired of crying and being hurt. He does not even deserve me anymore.
Please help.