My wife and i have been married for 17 1/2 years. We have two beautiful daughters age 14 and 4. Last April my wife began to become distant towards me. In May she informed me that friends of our had told her they had noticed us treating each other different. We seemed to be more rude to one another and bickered more. She also told me that people were complaining about my sarcasm, and didn't want to be around me. She was very angry at me for this, and blamed me for our friends no longer wanting to come around. At first I was very defensive when she told me this, but I started to think about it and wanted to change my ways. I began working on myself, and even started going to counseling. However, she remained distant and in her shell unable to forgive me.
In June I was asked to deploy to Afghanistan. I asked my wife how she felt about this, and she thought it would be a good idea because it would give us time apart. I agreed to go on the deployment to give her space. Things were ok, but she was still in her shell. In August I left for training and everything seemed ok. I came back for two weeks in September, and she pretty much acted like I wasn't even there. In October I left for three more weeks of training. The previous two weeks weighed heavily on my mind, and we argued on the phone most of that time. Prior to leaving for Afghanistan I went home for a week. This week at home was fantastic. We did things together, wen't to lunch and dinner, movies, talked, and were intimate all week.
Then I left for Afghanistan. As you can imagine being away from your family is difficult. I missed them very much and called and expressed that often. I'm a very insecure person who leans on his wife allot for support. I had the capability to call her anytime I wanted to, but she requested I call Wednesday, and web cam on Sunday. At first this was very difficult to follow. She was still very supportive to me even when I called out of cycle. Eventually she would get angry when I called and would even ignore me if it wasn't on our agreed days.
Sometime in December I questioned the fact that she had stopped saying she loved me anymore. At that time she informed me of some frustrations and changes she wanted me to make, and that she would consider leaving me if I didn't make them. I immediately stared making changes. I began talking to the chaplain regularly, reading self help books, web sites, forums, you name it i did it. My years of negativity turned positive.
things were going really well. I was talking only positive things to her, and i was sticking to her phone arrangement. One Wednesday after our conversation she commented how nice of a conversation it was, so we talked for another hour. Sunday after we did web cam, she told me she had something to tell me, and she dropped the bomb. She acknowledged the positive changes i had made, but she said she was tired of trying for 17+ years.
I was absolutely devastated and blindsided. She also told me that she had gone to see an attorney in June about getting a divorce, and he told her she was undecided and needed to go home. I did everything she asked me to do, and yet she still decided she wants out. However she's agreed to marriage counseling when I return, but she doesn't want me living in the house while we do it because of the tension it may cause for the kids.
We have had a very good marriage, with flaws of course, but she never expressed the majority of the complaints she's coming up with now. She is a woman and has a great memory, so she's going back to the beginning and picking every negative thing I've done. I can't seem to do anything right in her mind right now, and unfortunately I'm 8000 miles away and can't do a thing.
My wife is a wonderful woman. I love her with all my heart. However she's always had the ability to be very nice or very cold. She's stubborn as all get out, and is unable to forgive. She harps on past issues, and will never let you live it down even after you think the issue is dead. she also said she let me go to Afghanistan to give her time to think, and because absence makes the heart grow fonder, but she doesn't miss me and she doesn't look forward to me coming home like she did after my last deployment.
I myself am very insecure and require allot of attention. I can totally understand her being tired. I've never been controlling, but my trust and jealousy issues have kept her from doing some of the things she wanted to do. Things i never knew about because she never told me. we have always been each others best friend and told each other everything. Now she says she's tired of me always using her as my crutch.
I'm trying to hang on to the strand of hope that she's willing to do counseling. I also hope that the reality of me being in Afghanistan in a war zone has helped do this to her. Hopefully once she sees me and can see the changes first hand, we'll be able to begin the marriage repair. Being over here and having to go through this is the absolute most difficult thing I've ever been through.
Sorry this has been such a long topic, but theres allot to share. I have more to add, but this is a good start. I still hope we can repair this. we still converse on Wednesday's and Sunday, but we don't really discuss the situation, except for where I'm going to stay when I get back.
tbart01,
First I want to say THANK YOU! Thank you for serving our country!
I am so sorry that you find yourself here - I found myself here not too long ago when my H told me he was not "in love with me anymore" after 20 years of M and 3 kids.
Suggest that you continue to read though this website and get some advise from folks that have been here awhile. There are some postings in regards to being deployed that I have seen. I know being so far away you have feelings of hopelessness. My H is only 2 miles away and it feels like he is 8000 miles away. You have to hope and focus on what you can change about yourself. Keep changing - and this is the hardest thing I am doing now - detaching. If she expects you to call on Wednesday keep the conversion in regards to your children make it short - be up beat! Change your mindset about yourself -- you ARE a strong person - a weak person could not do what you are doing in Afghanistan!
Hang in there and there is A LOT of support here.
you're going to stay at home when you get back and sleep in your bed, that will be your first order of business.
The next time you talk with her, you agree with everything she says, even if she attacks you, don't defend yourself for now, it will be hard to do but just go with it and agree,
example "you weren't a good husband to me"
you reply "you're right, I was probably the worst husband I could possibly be"
"you were never there for me"
"you're right I agree, I wasn't there for you and I should have been there, I've messed up everything"
"we should split up and stop living together"
"I agree when I get back, I will help you look for a new place and help you pack your things if you want that help"
"I want you to move out, not me"
"I can see how you would feel like that but since you don't want to be married to me maybe it's best you get a fresh start and move out, I like my home and you still living there will probably just remind you of me and the horrible things i've done as a husband"
Get in the habit of using what they say, agreeing with it and their feelings (which are against you) and don't defend yourself. It takes alot of practice so start now but by not defending yourself in the argument, she has nothing to fight against, if anything when you say you were the worst husband, she'll probably say something like "you weren't THE WORST husband, you just did things that hurt me" and again you reply "you're right, I can see how that would bother you so much"
And don't offer to fix anything.
Let go of being insecure and needy, it's what has gotten you here and time to turn that around.
robx I t's so much easier said than done. I still hopes of fixing this thing because the issues are repairable. I have been owning up and agreeing with all she says. She has agreed I can stay in the house, but she'll stay somewhere else. She never said I couldn't stay there, just not with her. I agreed to stay somewhere else because I've been gone for the past 6 months, and i feel if we tag out it will be best for the children. the friend I'll be staying with lives right around the corner, so I'll be near my kids. Remember, she has at least agreed to marriage counseling, so there's still some hope. I know I haven't been perfect, no one is, but I also know I've been a pretty good husband.
And don't offer to fix anything.
Let go of being insecure and needy, it's what has gotten you here and time to turn that around.
Thank you for your service!!
Rob knows what he's talking about- if you follow his advice you are sure to not make things any worse...keep posting here and give us updates.
robx I t's so much easier said than done. I still hopes of fixing this thing because the issues are repairable. I have been owning up and agreeing with all she says. She has agreed I can stay in the house, but she'll stay somewhere else. She never said I couldn't stay there, just not with her. I agreed to stay somewhere else because I've been gone for the past 6 months, and i feel if we tag out it will be best for the children. the friend I'll be staying with lives right around the corner, so I'll be near my kids. Remember, she has at least agreed to marriage counseling, so there's still some hope. I know I haven't been perfect, no one is, but I also know I've been a pretty good husband.
you want something she doesn't want,
she doesn't want to be with you anymore but you continue to communicate that you want different, you want her, you want your marriage, so all she is hearing is "me, me, me, selfish me"
Of course it's easier said than done, everything in life is easier said than done.
Stop following your feelings and what you feel is right and start following reality and doing what's right.
It's counter intuitive but until you get it through your thick skull, you'll keep dancin' the "limbo" dance.
Sorry bro, have to be honest with you plain & simple.
You're pursuing your wife while she is trying to get away from you and the marriage and that's the quickest way to chase her away.
robx I t's so much easier said than done. I still hopes of fixing this thing because the issues are repairable. I have been owning up and agreeing with all she says. She has agreed I can stay in the house, but she'll stay somewhere else. She never said I couldn't stay there, just not with her. I agreed to stay somewhere else because I've been gone for the past 6 months, and i feel if we tag out it will be best for the children. the friend I'll be staying with lives right around the corner, so I'll be near my kids. Remember, she has at least agreed to marriage counseling, so there's still some hope. I know I haven't been perfect, no one is, but I also know I've been a pretty good husband.
smarten up, being kicked out of your home is the first thing that shows her you're not a strong man.
Stay in your home, it's ok. You're allowed.
Nearly every guy on this site moves out hoping that it's the "right thing" to do, you are using your feelings to dictate your moves, instead of following reality.
Counter-intuitive, I would rather you not repeat the same mistake most everyone else makes but if you feel better go ahead, learn from others and save yourself time and effort or learn from your own experience and waste time & effort and everything else that goes with that process.
I know the right thing to do is to stay in the house, and make her leave. Her suggestion was for her to stay in the house during the weekends and could stay during the week, and occasionally swap. I need to stick to what you say, but is that fair to the kids? Remember, I've been gone and they're used to their mom.
I'm afraid that if I go to the house and she leaves then it will ruin any chance of reconciliation. I'm afraid if I play the mean card then she'll not want to do marriage counseling. I still have hopes of being able to repair this marriage, and that's what makes it so hard to make the living arrangement decision.
I'm afraid that if I go to the house and she leaves then it will ruin any chance of reconciliation. I'm afraid if I play the mean card then she'll not want to do marriage counseling. I still have hopes of being able to repair this marriage, and that's what makes it so hard to make the living arrangement decision.
Tbart ~
Stop being afraid of what she'll do or won't do. She is divorcing you. Take that head on. If you want any shot at saving your M, stop being afraid of her and do what works.
First of all - listen to Robx (unless he tells you to go on a date - haha!).
Second - doing what FEELS right in this case will actually BE wrong. The measures you will have to take at this time are counter-intuitive, but effective.
Third - you write that your W is a wonderful woman. And I believe she is. But she is divorcing you and divorce is not nice or wonderful. If you continue to operate in the nice world, she will - not MAY - WILL run all over you. She's already trying to call the shots. Really - she's going to tell you when you can and cannot live in YOUR home?
Push back and claim your manhood. You won't believe this but ... she wants you to do that.
"W, I know that you want a D. I don't. You need to know that I will do everything I can to protect myself and my family while you pursue this."
Interview attorneys for yourself. She has. You would be CRAZY not to.
Is she having an A?
Greek
Greek said it right- you cannot be afraid.
As for W and M, they are lost right now- it is just you. You cannot be meek or sheepish- it's your house, she wants out, not you- so you go in and she can leave if that's what she want.
If she doesn't want to, she can take the spare bedroom or couch.
It does boil down to respect at this point.
Robx is dead on with his points, blame will be coming your way, so acknowledge it in the fashion as Robx has said.
I agree on staying in the HOME, even a lawyer will tell you don't move out. Use the term Family Home, it is a place for your family not just a house.
It is not meant to be mean, it is just distant and dark. It is a line that can be crossed easily, I know I have. So, you withdraw and you dettach. Think about you getting a life, act as if she is no longer in your life.
Easy, hell no! But as people have said, it is for you.
Got to ask the A question as well? It seems like in a very large percentage of sitchs there is OP.
Forgot, I appreciate your service. I can't even fathom going through this at such a huge geographic distance. Hopefully, you have a ton of stuff to keep you busy.
The more I think about it everyone is right. i have found a place to stay, but home is where I belong. I've been in the desert for six months living in a box. I'm going home, not to a friends house, but to my house. If she feels she can't be under the same roof as me, that's on her. I never asked her to leave. I deserve to stay in my house and see my daughters.
I know we all say it, but I don't suspect an A. The signs haven't really pointed to that. I have conformation she's always at home.
The more I think about it everyone is right. i have found a place to stay, but home is where I belong. I've been in the desert for six months living in a box. I'm going home, not to a friends house, but to my house. If she feels she can't be under the same roof as me, that's on her. I never asked her to leave. I deserve to stay in my house and see my daughters.
I know we all say it, but I don't suspect an A. The signs haven't really pointed to that. I have conformation she's always at home.
Does your W work?
And TBart ~ she doesn't have to go ANYWHERE to have an EA. You need to be sure about this. It makes a big difference in how you should proceed.
Greek
Yes she works, but I'll be able to find out more when I go home in 3 weeks.
[quote] Remember, I've been gone and they're used to their mom/quote]
You are looking at this wrong. This is your chance to establish stronger bonds with your kids than you have ever had before. That is one good thing that has come from my sitch which has many, many similarities to yours. You don't move out, you learn how to be the single parent, it will be so rewarding and it will keep you motivated!
I know the right thing to do is to stay in the house, and make her leave. Her suggestion was for her to stay in the house during the weekends and could stay during the week, and occasionally swap. I need to stick to what you say, but is that fair to the kids? Remember, I've been gone and they're used to their mom.
feelings..... nothing more than feeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeelllllllllllllliiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnngggggggggggggssss................
I'm planning on telling her that I'm going home, and when i say home I mean my house. i have no problem with her staying, if she decides to leave that's on her. we'll see what comes out of counseling, because I plan to start that right away. we either see if we can fix this or if we need to move on.
your wife is planning to leave you,
and break up your family in the process and I don't think how that will affect your kids is impacting her decision, follow reality, let it be, it's ok, the kids are resilient and you need to show them that their father is strong, secure, confident, self assured and is going to be their rock during all of this.
Your position needs to be "W, if you want to leave this M, go. Put your Big Girl Panties and live your choices." Then you will begin to see the depth (or lack of) her commitment to the D and the M.
And she may actually walk out of the door. That's not even close to the end, TBart. I left and filed. We never D ~~~ we reconciled. So it can happen!
You do need to get the A questions answered. And I don't mean from her b/c from what I've read on here, most folks deny when asked. I mean you must gather intel - cell phone records, look at her computer, that kind of thing. It is possible for a W to leave without OM to go to. And since she has her own income, that may be. But you still need to know b/c if there is OM, you MUST bust that thing FIRST. Nothing else will work until that soft landing of hers is removed/exposed.
Greek
I'm planning on telling her that I'm going home, and when i say home I mean my house. i have no problem with her staying, if she decides to leave that's on her. we'll see what comes out of counseling, because I plan to start that right away. we either see if we can fix this or if we need to move on.
When you tell her this you are actually seeking her approval, another thing that a strong confident man doesn't need to do. You make a decision for what's best for you and your kids and that means going home and being home and living at home, that's what is best for you and your kids. Allow your wife to do what she wants to do, she isn't asking for your approval to do what she's doing, you don't need to ask her or tell her what you will be doing, YOU JUST NEED TO DO IT.
Make a decision, and follow through, very attractive, very assertive, very masculine and very much the opposite from you based on the vibe I'm getting.
When you get home you just live at home, you don't ask for permission. If she asks what your plans are, then you can tell her this:
"I've decided I'm not moving out, this is my home. If you have a problem with this and feel you need to leave, I won't stand in your way and I won't beg you to stay. Being home and living in my home is what's best for me & my kids regardless of what happens between you and me."
When you tell her this you are actually seeking her approval, another thing that a strong confident man doesn't need to do. You make a decision for what's best for you and your kids and that means going home and being home and living at home, that's what is best for you and your kids. Allow your wife to do what she wants to do, she isn't asking for your approval to do what she's doing, you don't need to ask her or tell her what you will be doing, YOU JUST NEED TO DO IT.
Make a decision, and follow through, very attractive, very assertive, very masculine and very much the opposite from you based on the vibe I'm getting.
When you get home you just live at home, you don't ask for permission. If she asks what your plans are, then you can tell her this:
"I've decided I'm not moving out, this is my home. If you have a problem with this and feel you need to leave, I won't stand in your way and I won't beg you to stay. Being home and living in my home is what's best for me & my kids regardless of what happens between you and me."
And when you do this and say this, TBart, she is going to spin so far up you won't know what hits you! She will be mad. She will call you 'controlling'. She will fly all over every flaw you have and blame you for all of her misery.
None of this show of emotion on her part requires a matching show from you. Your calm, confident and strong disposition will HIGHLIGHT her loose ends. You put yourself on the rational end of the spectrum BY YOUR ACTIONS and she puts herself on the other end by her REACTIONS to your strength. This is how you want it. You have to chip away at what she thinks is her conviction and commitment to D. One thing I know for sure is that the WAW is almost never as SURE of what she is doing as she appears. You can expose this.
Greek
I think it's enough to go home and say that it's your home and you have no desire to leave.
You don't need to tell her to leave. If she says that the two of you cannot be in the same house, it's ok to disagree with her, then just reassert that you plan to live in your home.
Don't make this a case of you coming back being a jerk. Firmness and strength can often easily turn into being an a$$hole. There is no need for that.
Your position is that you will live in your home. Your position is that you do not want a divorce and that you are willing to work on the marital issues - is she?
The tone of some of this is just too harsh and controlling.
You have to find a way to sift through our advice and implement things in a way that stands up for yourself, without coming across as controlling or punishing.
A tough task...
Blessings,
Bill
it is all in how it's done. Calmn and Confident
i just called to talk to my older daughter, and my wife answered. She told me that she had told my daughter when i was coming home, and that I'd be staying somewhere else. I told her I was going to talk to her about it later, but I'm coming home. She didn't understand, and I told her I was going home to my house. She really didn't have a response, i shocked her. Her whole tone changed, and we had a short conversation about normal things. i actually put my foot down for the first time since she told me this, and it felt pretty good.
In June I was asked to deploy to Afghanistan. I asked my wife how she felt about this, and she thought it would be a good idea because it would give us time apart. I agreed to go on the deployment to give her space. Things were ok, but she was still in her shell. In August I left for training and everything seemed ok. I came back for two weeks in September, and she pretty much acted like I wasn't even there. In October I left for three more weeks of training. The previous two weeks weighed heavily on my mind, and we argued on the phone most of that time. Prior to leaving for Afghanistan I went home for a week. This week at home was fantastic. We did things together, wen't to lunch and dinner, movies, talked, and were intimate all week.
So she recommends YOU go to a WAR ZONE/THIRD WORLD COUNTRY...so she can have space? Ice cold.
Then I left for Afghanistan. As you can imagine being away from your family is difficult. I missed them very much and called and expressed that often. I'm a very insecure person who leans on his wife allot for support. I had the capability to call her anytime I wanted to, but she requested I call Wednesday, and web cam on Sunday. At first this was very difficult to follow. She was still very supportive to me even when I called out of cycle. Eventually she would get angry when I called and would even ignore me if it wasn't on our agreed days.
More ice, TBart. What's with all the control??
Sometime in December I questioned the fact that she had stopped saying she loved me anymore. At that time she informed me of some frustrations and changes she wanted me to make, and that she would consider leaving me if I didn't make them. I immediately stared making changes. I began talking to the chaplain regularly, reading self help books, web sites, forums, you name it i did it. My years of negativity turned positive.
Goodness. You heard her. Validated. Executed on changes. Good on you.
I did everything she asked me to do, and yet she still decided she wants out.
Hmmmmm.
she doesn't want me living in the house while we do it because of the tension it may cause for the kids.
Tension for HER.
Not unable ~ unwilling. This is a choice.
Now she says she's tired of me always using her as my crutch.
Well, that can change. You will GAL, be your own man and offer her PARTNERSHIP in the M.
I also hope that the reality of me being in Afghanistan in a war zone has helped do this to her. Hopefully once she sees me and can see the changes first hand, we'll be able to begin the marriage repair.
Don't believe in magic, Tbart. She won't magically "see". You will have to make the changes for yourself, be the man you want to be and let her "see" that and maybe she'll choose you again. You don't need to 'repair' your M. You need a New M.
Greek
i just called to talk to my older daughter, and my wife answered. She told me that she had told my daughter when i was coming home, and that I'd be staying somewhere else. I told her I was going to talk to her about it later, but I'm coming home. She didn't understand, and I told her I was going home to my house. She really didn't have a response, i shocked her. Her whole tone changed, and we had a short conversation about normal things. i actually put my foot down for the first time since she told me this, and it felt pretty good.
Good work.
You see how she is choreographing things for you. Do not allow this. She should not be telling the children anything about this without YOUR agreement. These are not just HER children - they are YOUR children,too. She overstepped a boundary IMO by telling the child anything about this. Call her on it.
Greek
When you speak of your changes and hoping she will see those and then be willing to work on the M, are you talking about changes you are making for her? What specific changes are you doing?
BTW, there has been some folks to try the "parent swap" route with their kids and for the life of me, I don't see how that could be good for the children. How many years could that last with a set-up like that? You would get "burn-out" so quickly and that's no way to live life. I agree in going back home, but be prepared to stand up to her.
Don't expect her to be the person you M b/c she's going through something right now that is causing her to act like a total stranger, and I doubt that is going to change any time soon. It will take a lot of strength to deal with the stitch after you get home. Start now in making changes to become the man "you" like and that will be a wonder example for your children when they start to pick their life partners.
You won't be able to please your W with your changes. Don't even try to work at making her happy with you, b/c she is hell bent on not being happy, so keep that in mind and don't be depressed when it is played out for you to see. Just keep doing what you know is the right thing to do and aim at being the best person you can be.
Unfortunately sandi2 is right. I'm making changes for me, changes I've needed to make for a long time. i feel really good about the person I am becoming. She is still dead set on divorce, but she has finally talked to someone close. Until now she had been going at this alone. the fact that she finally spoke to someone close has made her realize she needs individual therapy, and she plans to start that before i get home. Things still look grim, but at least she's finally realizing something isn't right with her, and she needs to get help. i promise you this situation doesn't warrant a divorce, but in her mind it does. In the mean time, all I can do is continue to work on me, and be strong for my children. Right now the older daughter is playing both of us, and that's really hard for me being so far away. Any time they argue, my wife sees me and blames it on me.
Things still look grim, but at least she's finally realizing something isn't right with her, and she needs to get help.
This is huge! There have been several LBH's who cannot get their WAW to see a doctor or IC. So, I believe that is a very positive sign.
I just hope she sticks to the plan of individual therapy. When I get home I'll do individual therapy, and then when the time is right we'll do co-counseling. I need to realize this didn't happen overnight, and neither will the repair. I need to give it time,and hope that we can begin to repair and rebuild one day. Sooner rather than later I hope. I didn't invest 17 1/2 years in this marriage to just let it go like that. This has been a very frustrating and sad process, and it's only just begun.
In June I was asked to deploy to Afghanistan.
Prior to this, June, how much / often were you away from your home? As in the past year or two, have you been spending months at a time away from your wife with the military?
No I haven't been gone since 2007, but this is my first time in a combat zone. She really feels like she's lost herself, and she's starting to get some of that back.
We have a mobile home that we rent out. The tenants have moved out. Following is an email she sent: "That is a great thing. I am already going to do some trade out work for to purchase new vinyl and carpet for the trailer. I am going up this week or next to sign paperwork for the lot rent and I will cancel the renters insurance with State Farm. We have to pay for it anyway, so I will stay up there while you have your 4 weeks off. I will get the trailer in habitable living conditions for me and the girls and take a few pieces of furniture. I will take the futon and the wooden entertainment center and the tv from our bedroom. Sheets and bedding for the futon is all I need for now. I want you to stay at the house so we don’t uproot the kids at this point. You need to rest from the sand and be able to come back to your house. I will be busy with work and getting the trailer fixed up. Anyway, I think it is good news and it gives us options as to where to stay. I will talk to you tonight."
This sounded bad to me at first, but it does give us some options. Gives her a chance to continue with her individual counseling and work on herself. She also says that we have to pay for it anyway, so why not fix it up. She want's to do the work for her confidence and stay there while she does it. She also mentioned that we may rent it out again one day, and the work needs to be done first.
I now see this as a potential positive. No marriage is going to be fixed over night. It's going to take time, and this affords us the time. maybe after the 4 weeks we can start co-counseling and see where it takes us. She has a counseling session scheduled for next week, and she's really excited.
I look forward to her getting the help she needs, and me to whenever I finally get home. The reality is that we're obviously going to separate when I get home. Only time will tell how long that's going to be. I will keep doing what I need to do to make sure we have an opportunity for repair, and that I give her the required space. Our talks have bben short, but good. I can't wait to get home and start this process. It's so hard being so far away.
I really have nothing new to add. I was hoping to be going back from my deployment in three weeks, but it looks like I have two more months. I can't do anything but think about the sitch. I have a hard time focusing on my task at hand here. I've had bouts of depression, sadness, and pretty much everything but happiness. I just want to get home and start the process of her going to IC and me going to IC. I really need to see my daughters to help ease the pain.
I'm trying to vision my life without her just in case, and it's really hard to do. Being so far away and not seeing and living the sitch makes it very hard to seem like reality. It was hard to hear her talk about moving out, but she left the door cracked when she mentioned renting the place out later.
I just don't know what to think anymore. Her and my teenage daughter haven't been getting along, because my daughter is mad at her for wanting to do this. She hears my wife talk about divorce and me talking about working things out, and she says she's confused. I just tell my daughter that that's my intention, but it's going to take time. i asked her to please be patient and wait until I get home. She's grounded from the computer and her cell phone, so we're unable to communicate as freely as we used to.
i just feel bad about the entire situation and the fact that I'm not home to be there for my girls. I keep thinking about them staying with just me when I get back, and I look forward to the challenge. I also keep thinking about all the things I want to do with them that doesn't involve their mother. It will be strange to my wife seeing me do all that with just them. Hopefully positive to the girls that dad is strong, and we'll see what my W thinks.
Update:
It appears that the rental is in such bad shape that she's talking about trading it in on a new one. I asked if she planned to do this in her name only, and she told me no. She still want's the trailer as a place for us to rotate out of while we're working this out.
She said that if we work this out then my older daughter can live there and pay for it when she goes to college. When she said if we work this out i was rather surprised as all talk before was about nothing but divorce. i know these words were small, however it did leave a window cracked so to speak.
I just need to keep working on me and allow her to work on herself. When the time is right, we'll start to work on us.
My W and I have been talking allot lately, her calling me, and she keeps cracking the window open a little more. She told me the reason she doesn't want us living together when I return is because she's afraid I'm going to talk her into leaving things the way they were. She has started counseling and wants me to do the same when I get home. She told me she still loves me, but wants us to work on ourselves and then us. That's been my plan the entire time, that's just the first time she's shared her plan with me.
What it boils down to is she's lost herself, and she needs to get herself back. She wants to be able to make a decision without having to analyze and worry about the outcome. I may not completely understand, but I respect that it's her feeling. I'm slowly developing patience, and will wait for her because I love her, but I won't wait forever.
She's very up and down, but she doesn't seem as divorce minded as she once did. I really don't know how to take all this. W says she doesn't know exactly what's going to happen when I get home, which isn't neceseraly good or bad, she is just obviously confused. This is the first time in months that she even mentioned the fact that she still loves me.
I need some help from some of you with experience. I had mentioned previously that my wife had started counseling finally. She says she needs to fix her before she can work on a relationship. I can completely understand that, but she sent me this in an email the other day.
"I want you to continue to work on yourself. I have a long way to go and you have even further because you have never traveled this road with a professional before. It is hard and takes time. Things cannot be fixed in a matter of weeks or months. Especially since you are dealing with issues from your childhood. It is a long journey but one that is well worth it in the end. You will be amazed at the progress you make when you come back".
I agree with most of this, but i disagree with the fact that it's going to be a longer road for me. I have worked on allot of stuff while deployed, and feel better about myself than I have in years. i agree I have flaws and deep rooted childhood issues that contribute to my trust and jealousy issues. that I definitely need professional counseling for. However, I don't feel broken, lost, or depressed like my wife says she feels. i haven't relayed this to her, but should I worry that she thinks I need so much help.
Obviously since I'm not home yet, she really doesn't know how far I've come. I still have a long way to go, but I'm well on the way.
Our conversations have gone well, nothing bad, nothing good. She seems to be over the angry stage, and has been more positive and supportive of things.
wow...your sitch is so so so similar to my own, difference is that my H is the deployed and he is the one that wants a divorce. I have the same feelings of hope that when he comes home he will get back to reality and realize that he is making a mistake.... but I know that is just wishful thinking and the chances of that happening are a million to one. People on here told you that you should reclaim your house and you stay in your bedroom, etc, and be the MAN of the house type thing... does that same strategy work in my case? I was thinking about letting my H take the bedroom when he came home since he has been gone to the desert for 7 months... but now I think that I should take the bedroom myself and let him take the couch?
My H has said some similar things to me as your W said. He felt that he "lost himself" and wanted to make decisions for his life without worrying about who they were affecting. He has said he loves me but is not in love with me, etc. He also mentioned to me one time that we could go to counseling when he came home, but then stopped talking to me after he said that. I havent heard from him in weeks. He comes home in a week and a half.
I see how difficult it is to be the LBS on this side, I can only imagine what i must feel like to be the LBS on the deployed side of it.
meghunny it's definately difficult being the LBS while I'm not even there to face it. Luckily my wife and I still talk to one another, just not that often.
I used to think that me returning homw would give some magic spark that would change things. However, as things progress I see that it may not occur. Her attitude has gone from anger and meaness to neautrality.
I tried to follow the advice of taking the house back, and it backfired on me. It sent her into such a downward spiral. It was after I backed off and agreed to our previous plan that her attitude began to change.
Even from a distance I had to let her go and give her space. I told her I wouldn't take the house over, and I would only call her once a week like she had asked. When I started to give her this space she started calling me, and even became willing to talk to me when I would call to speak to my kids.
She also started to speak about the future, she started IC, she even told me she stillloved me, but didn't want me to live in the house withher because she was afraid I'd talk her into things being the way they were. The truth is I don't want things to be the way they were, that's unacceptable even to me. I didn't realize this fact until my stch.
She even mentioned she didn't know what would happen once i got ome, that could be bad or good. The reality is, I don't know how she's going to accept my return nor do you know how your H is going to accept his return. You and I are both in unknown territorry. We just need to be patient and understanding of how they feel once they return. All we can do is wonder and speculate how things will be, and it's a very difficult spot to be in.
I've taken this time to work on the things I know I need to work on, and that's what you need to do as well. We can only improve ourselves, because unfortunatley we can't change them or the way they feel. This is something I've had to learn throughout this process.
Repairing my marriage is going to be a long hard journey, but first we need to fix ourselves. The marriage will come secnd and naturally. That doesn't mean it will be repaired, but hopefully we will have tried all that can possibly tried.
yes... you do sound like you are in a little bit better position than I am in for the fact that she is at least speaking to you. I dont know what happened to my H in that regard... he was talking to me very regularly... but I think he felt bombarded, and he knows he HAS to deal with it when he gets back so he is just keeping to himself and avoiding the drama right now. which sucks for me... but what can i do.
I do need to get with the program as far as understanding that I need to make changes for myself, I know a few of the things that werent working for him and I fully accept and acknowledge that they require change. But I still have the mindset that I am trying to change for him and for our marriage. I feel sometimes like why should I have to go thru so much pain and so much one sided effort just to stay married to him?? But I WANT nothing more than to be married to him and work on this. I know that marriage is work and its not something to just walk away from when things are not happy.... but how do you work with that if your spouse doesnt seem to want to try? My H did say he would go to counseling in the last email he wrote me.....but judging by his behavior since then, I kinda dont see that happening.
I am going to do my best to just be understanding of what he is feeling, and try to work on myself in the meantime.... its weird for us though, because we are currently stationed on an overseas base already, so he could have me sent back to the States when gets home, or he could stay at the house, or he could move into the dorms (which he has mentioned)
I just pray that the outcome of all this is that we have a healthier, happier, and stronger marriage because of this and our efforts made all the difference in the world.....
You are overanylizing things like I was and still do. Unfortunately the situation is what it is, and all we can do right now is be respectful of how their feeling. We may not understand, but the more we try to get them to open up the more we will push them away. I found that when I respected my wifes desire for space (only calling once a week), she then seemed to be a little more cooperative.
This has taken me months to realize, and I'm still no where near where I need to be. It will become somewhat clearer and easier to deal with once we're reunited. This isn't going to be repaired with magic, it's going to take time, understanding and patience.
It's definitaley difficult for us to deal with this because it happened while I was away, and while you were alone. We will never understand why or how thay came about there decision and the timing.
I look back on things and wish I could change certain events and behaviors, but I can't. All we can control is ourselves and the present. Just work to make yourself a better person for you. I'm still struggling with the changes being only for me. It takes lots of time and effort, but you need to want to change for you. The result of the change can be a repaired marriage, but the reason. However, this is the 2 X 4 that smacked me in the face and caused the reasoning for change. It's very unfortunate, but I like who I am today allot more than the guy I was 6 months ago.
I need some opinions on a thought I just had. I'm deployed and I'm doing the NC or limited contact with my wife unless she contacts me, or she tells me to call. Would you consider this a form of seperation?
Since I've began doing this, we've had more conversations. We rarely talk about the stich, just the kids and other things going on. Since I started giving her more space, she seems to be more cooperative. She's stopped being mean and agry, and started to be more neautral.
I was just wondering if I could sort of count this as part of the seperation?
It could be that she needs more freedom and trust from you, and by giving her her space she feels better. Do you think you can continue to give her space when you are back with her? More than likely that need will not change. Are you prepared to handle that with grace and set aside any insecurities you might have during those times?
Also that time gives her time to miss you, and may explain why she is more compelled to call. She's wondering why you're not disrespecting her request (a prime example of a successful 180). So it makes her curious about you and what you're doing. Just take it slow and easy and try not to get too excited about it working.
Yes, I have no problem continuing to give her the space she needs. I have learned allot through this ordeal and with the time away. I know that in order to ever reconcile, then giving her the required space is a must. I'm prepared to do allot of things differently that I wasn't aware of until recently.
Unfortunately, I will be living away from her when I get back, so she will get the space. It hurts to know i won't be going home to her, but I will if that what she needs.
This process is making me so numb I don't know how to get angry anymore. I constantly walk around in a fog and I'm consumed with the situation. It frustrates me that I'm unable to speak to my wife about how I feel. I can't tell her when I realize something we did or didn't do throughout our marriage.
We spoke for a bit this morning. I told her I got people from work that are willing to help her with repairs to the mobile home. For some reason she yelled at me, because she didn't feel they had experience in what needed to be done. I'm trying to get her help to alleviate the stress of repairing the trailer. I just can't seem to do anything right for her at this time.
She is busy repairing herself, and says she doesn't have time to work on relationship issues. However, when I return home she said we will talk about our personal problems. I'm pretty sure I'm beginning to slip into a full blown depression.
I'm getting frustrated whenever I hear people over here talking crap to each other or others. I don't have the ability to handle these types of behaviors.
This is the most difficult thing I've ever had to go throuh in my entire life. I lost my father when I was 10 and my mother when I was 14, and this is much harder for me to handle.
I know it's early but sometimes i feel like giving up, and I haven't even returned home yet. I know this will take time, but not being home, and not being able to talk about things with her is really draining me emotionaly.
I don't know what to do anymore. My hands are so tied right now.
This is why DB recommends GALing. When you're alone with your thoughts and feelings, it's so easy to slip into depression. Or allow the sitch to consume you. And then you're left only feeling worthless, unloved, and lonely. I wish I had some advice to offer on that front... maybe watch a few funny movies and zone out for a bit? It's hard when you're hurting, I know, but just keep trying different distractions until you can forget for just a little while. Playing a game of cards with friends, maybe a little drinking... most people say this is a no, but as long as you're in good company, I don't see the harm in a drink or two. In fact, in some cases, it has been one of my best distractions - on game nights it makes time fly and the night is shorter to try and sleep through.
When she got angry about the trailer, it's because she lost control of the situation. She was expecting you to offer sympathy, understanding, and then *ask* if she wanted these people from work to help, because they'd be willing. And the asking has to be delicate. Remember: in her mind, she's in control and has you right where she wants you. Then you came along and gave her exactly what she needed (which wasn't what she wanted - she wanted the sympathy and understanding of her situation, after all she's at such a disadvantage!), so she got upset that things didn't play out the way they were *supposed* to. Don't react to the anger. At all. Either way, you're kind of screwed: if you apologize and say you were only offering some help, she feels dumb because then she has to realize that's what she asked for. If you get angry back, well, we all know that leads to a power struggle and hurt feelings on both sides. But knowing that you can't do anything right is a good sign - it shows you something you need to work on. If I could stake a guess: she's feeling unheard - she wants sympathy and understanding from you, and instead you're trying to fix the problem, rather than listening to her. And being that you're a man, and therefore a natural "fixer", I'm willing to guess that this has been going on for a while. The best thing to do, next time you're presented with this kind of situation (Complaining about the trailer, or complaining about something else that requires her to take action alone) is ask "Is there anything you would like me to do?" then go silent. Make her really think about it. She may fess up and say that she just needs someone to listen, or she might even get angry because she doesn't know how to handle your inquiry - how dare you ask her to think for herself! If the former is the case, LISTEN. Just be quiet and listen. If the latter is true, again, just be quiet. It'll be hard to listen to her chew your head off, but once she's done screaming, simply say "Well, if you think of a way I can help, let me know, okay?" That's so powerful because now she's seeing that you're willing to be leaned on, when she's ready. There may be many screamings in the road ahead, just be consistent with how you respond and she'll probably soften up.
I know what you mean about being frustrated about other people's attitudes. Through this whole event (I'm now divorced, been DBing off and on, screwed up big), I've been offering better advice than I'm taking. In some way, it makes me feel better to fix others' relationships since I keep screwing up my own. I just can identify with nearly every emotion that my guy friends complain about their womenfolk having because I've been all over that spectrum myself, from the logical to the looney. So I just hope that I get it exactly right to help them along. I don't see any reason for a R to fail, and I want to "save" people before they get to where I am.
cautious, those were all great things you had to say. I guess i never really looked at it that way, about trying to fix things. I just know shes overwhelmed, and i thought she could use some help. I told her that the people I work with are willing to help if she wants it. I never told her that they had to help her, i just gave here their number and told her to call if she wanted the help. She eventually came around and said she would probably get their help this weekend.
It's really tough dealing with all this from Afghanistan, it's tough enough as it is. i feel helpless not being home and able to work on this. Unfortunately, I get frustrated with happy people right now. I haven't been able to be happy in months dealing with this.
I'm trying really hard, and i never get angry back at her. I'm trying to keep the peace while I'm away, and i want her to see that I'm not getting angry at everything. To be honest, I'm so drained from this I don't have the energy to get angry at her. it's almost like I'm being somewhat of a doormat, but in the past i would always get defensive, so in a sense this is a 180 for me.
i had asked earlier if I should consider this time away somewhat of a separation? i guess I'm trying to gauge the timing of things to see when i should try this or that, if I should consider when I get home the beginning of the separation? It seems logical to count this time apart, but I could be wrong.
Man... I am so on your same page of emotions! It is so frustrating sometimes to read people situations and the similarities and listen to each of us realize what we were doing wrong in our M and it just makes me want to shake these spouses like wake up!!! we get it ok?? now lets fix it and be happy again!!
We are in such a tough position though... we know what this situation is like for us apart but we have that state of unknowing of what it is going to be like when we are together again... that is a scary feeling.
I feel the same way about either people who are happy or people who arent... I envy the people who are and the I pity the people who arent. My friend has been complaining to me about her husband and their issues and it drives me insane listening to it, I have said to her well you better figure out how to fix it or you will end up like me. Or I see some miserable couple with all sorts of issues and I just think if they can stay together what is our problem???!!
I hope you can find somethings to GAL over there, Im sure that is REALLY difficult being there. Maybe play some sports or volunteer for something. Its hard to have the motivation at all to want to do those things, but they say its what we should be doing....
meghunny it's something that's out of both our hands. it's like I said before we need to take this time to work on us. it sounds like we both know what we contributed or what may have failed in our marriage. Unfortunately, we don't fully understand what our spouse is thinking. We won't know until we're reunited with them.
we need to stay on course with our changes, feel better about us, and see what happens. I'm the one deployed and I wish I could call my wife, but I can't because I'm trying to not appear needy. i too made the beginning mistakes, and occasionally slip. It's been almost 3 months since the bomb was dropped on me. we've made baby steps, but it's clear the road ahead is long and rocky.
I truly feel for you, because like you I'm alone and away,s o I know how it feels. As far as the GAL's all i can really do is the gym. I've lost 30 pounds over here and have put on more muscle than I've had in years. I've also been reading self help books and web sites. I truly feel great about the changes I've made. I really like the person I am for the first time in years, possibly ever.
i just hope for the both of us that we get a chance to renew our marriages.
I hope so too... I am glad that you feel very positive about your changes, that is good. At least you have that... that is yours and nobody can take that from you. I wouldnt even tell your wife about the progress you are making on your body... I would just shock her with that change when you get back.
Anyone have any advice on my previous question
I had asked earlier if I should consider this time away somewhat of a separation? I guess I'm trying to gauge the timing of things to see when I should try this or that, if I should consider when I get home the beginning of the separation? It seems logical to count this time apart, but I could be wrong.
i dont think i would count this as part of separation... only because you both know that at some point you ARE coming home and things will be dealt with in that regard.
I understand we will face new things once i'm actually home, but technically we've been separated. She has had her time and space, and you see where thats gotten us. Some improvement, and I hope it will be easier once I return. Like i said before, i know we won't be living together. However, i will get to interact with my children and be the better person I know I've become.
Obviously i won't know when the right time to ask her out for coffee or something simple. I just don't know exactly what things will be like, and when to start dating her and what not.
well I think some things will be easier when you do come home...cause right now your options of things you can do to help your marriage are VERY limited, so it will open up different avenues, but I think emotionally it might be more difficult (which what I am anticipating) because her rejection will be in person... but you know that. But it will help you get past just that state of unknowing, right now you just DONT know what it will be like when you come home and my counselor told me thats what i need to hang on to, that the only thing I DO know is that i DONT know what it will be like when i get home, so I need to take it day by day with how it is and not torture myself with the fear of life after my H gets back. I think that could help you as well, cope while you are still away. Everyday that you are still married is a good day
yesterday I sent her an email asking her to send me cell phone and charger so i had a way to contact people when I returned to the states in 5 weeks. I asked her to let me know if this would be ok or if she disagreed. i woke up expecting a response from her, and had nothing.
I called to talk to my daughter, and during the conversatio my wife returned home from her counseling appointment. I had my daughter as her if she got my email. She responded yes, but said she couldn't answert the question because she had to put my younger daughter to bed. After she put the yonger daughter to bed i had my daughter ask her one more time before i got off the phone. She got a little angry and said she just got hoeme, and would talk to me tommorrow about it.
Is this something I'm reading too much into or is there something to her response? It was an innocent question, because i don't have much time here and if she's going to send it to me she needs to do it soon. Any advice would help. Things have been going pretty well until now. i don't know what has happened to cause this type of response.
My daughter also told me that my wife has a manila envelope with all th emails I've sent her since I've been over here. There's nothing bad in any of them, but it has me concerned. As far as I know she hasn't been to an attorney. I don't know if it's to help her in IC, to help me when i start IC, or if it's to be used against me. I guess I'm just starting to read into everything.
I know it seems like I'm talkingto myself here, but I'm confused. Today I called my wife for our weekly scheduled phone call. She asked me how much time I hd and she put my D4 to bed. She asked why I called D14 on Tuesday, and I told her I always call her on Tuesday. She asked if I could call a different night because that's the night she has IC and isn't home. She want's D14 to concentrate on D4. I agreed and chose another day.
I was very calm on the telephone. She had emailed me from work and said she wanted to talk to me beacause she was angry about the night before. Me calling while D14 was watching D4. I stuck to the points, listened and agreed when needed, and compromised like readjusting the day. We finished the conversation with small talk, and then I got off to go to work. I feel doing and saying all the right things, but the truth is when we meet up face to face.
Towards the end of the conversation she asked about how things would be when I came home. W asked me if I wanted the first few days with the kids when I got home. I replied yes absolutely because I miss them and they miss me. W said she would pick me up form the airport, take us home then she would leave for her friends house. I asked if she literally meant she would drop us off, tag off to me, and leave. She repilied with yes, how did you think it was going to be. I told her I thought we would visit for a little while.
I realize she doesn't want to be with me right now, and I realize she wants to feel things out when I get home. I just have a hard time with the fact i left 6 months ago with what apeared to be a wife that loves me, and I'm going home to one that apears not to. I look forward to getting home and seeing my girls, but I'm not looking forward to what lies ahead.
Anybody have anything to add to this.
I know it seems like I'm talkingto myself here, but I'm confused. Today I called my wife for our weekly scheduled phone call. She asked me how much time I hd and she put my D4 to bed. She asked why I called D14 on Tuesday, and I told her I always call her on Tuesday. She asked if I could call a different night because that's the night she has IC and isn't home. She want's D14 to concentrate on D4. I agreed and chose another day.
I was very calm on the telephone. She had emailed me from work and said she wanted to talk to me beacause she was angry about the night before. Me calling while D14 was watching D4. I stuck to the points, listened and agreed when needed, and compromised like readjusting the day. We finished the conversation with small talk, and then I got off to go to work. I feel doing and saying all the right things, but the truth is when we meet up face to face.
Towards the end of the conversation she asked about how things would be when I came home. W asked me if I wanted the first few days with the kids when I got home. I replied yes absolutely because I miss them and they miss me. W said she would pick me up form the airport, take us home then she would leave for her friends house. I asked if she literally meant she would drop us off, tag off to me, and leave. She repilied with yes, how did you think it was going to be. I told her I thought we would visit for a little while.
I realize she doesn't want to be with me right now, and I realize she wants to feel things out when I get home. I just have a hard time with the fact i left 6 months ago with what apeared to be a wife that loves me, and I'm going home to one that apears not to. I look forward to getting home and seeing my girls, but I'm not looking forward to what lies ahead.
Does anyone really know how the mind of the WAS works. Four weeks ago she was telling me she was miserable also, then she wa cold, then she still loved me and wanted us to go to C and we'll take it from there, to being back to the way she is now.
Hmm... do you have any way you could call a DB coach from over there? Its hard for you because you are the one that has to do the contacting, if not only for the sake of talking to your children. I wasnt seeing any results from my H either until i talked to a coach and then I got an immediate result, I am not sure that what my coach told me would be advised for you, but they would have something to tell you and make you feel better about having a "game plan". I obviously dont have a ton of good advise as I am in the same sort of situation, but I have noticed that I only seem to get responses if I am posting on other pages, it keeps my name out there, if you have time to check out some other stories and post a little bit I think you would get some more help.
Forgive me I haven't read your entire sitch but your W is clearly upset and impatient- I can see lots of behaviors I saw in my WAW...you need to stick to business, if you call to speak to your D then just keep it at that...
Your job here is to not add to the stress- I know that's extremely difficult b/c of the uncertainty- but your actions will likely dictate her actions or at least influence them greatly.
I'm gonna start from the beginning and will post more later...
Hey Tbart, I've been lurking your thread since u got here. I'm sorry you haven't been getting a lot of responses lately; I know what that's like. Remember that many more people are reading your thread than post on it.
I'll offer my thoughts, just to give you some support.
First:
Does anyone really know how the mind of the WAS works. Four weeks ago she was telling me she was miserable also, then she wa cold, then she still loved me and wanted us to go to C and we'll take it from there, to being back to the way she is now.
Sandi and Greek both have great insight into the mind of the WAS, since they both were WAW's. They have both posted useful things here in your thread, and I really suggest you go back and re-read what they had to say. It's important.
You shouldn't try to mind read your W. First, you can't know what is going on with her, and second it distracts you from the GAL activities you need to be pursuing. Thinking about W makes you think about pursing her, and about saving your M.
I told her I thought we would visit for a little while.
this is what I'm talking about. This is straight out pursuit, and it's a db mistake! I'm not saying you should be cold to her, but you do need to avoid any pursuing behaviors.
I stuck to the points, listened and agreed when needed, and compromised like readjusting the day.
If this was as smooth as you make it sound, then great job. I've always had a hard time with these kind of conversations, and even when I thought I had been validating and cooperative, I've discovered later that my very manner of speech betrayed my true thoughts. When you said "like readjusting the day", I worry that your W saw through you. You have to change the very manner of your communication.
I had my daughter ask her if she got my email.
Man, I think this is a bad idea: communicating through your kids. It may make you look weak and manipulative. It's like a veiled accusation, letting your kids in on the idea that your wife is not responsive to you. Your W knows this. It's also not good for the kids IMHO. I'm not suggesting you hide the realities of what is going on from them. kids see and understand. But I don't think they should be in the middle of your conversations. It's gotta be tough on you, being on the otherside of the world (I can't imagine). If your W is communicating through your kids, its a good chance for some boundary setting; which is good for you.
Tbart, you've been on my watch list, but I simply haven't felt like I had anything to say. All our stichs are difficult, and I hardly feel qualified to offer advice. Take it with a big grain of sand (if you haven't had enough of sand!)Know we are out here thinking of you. Of course, thanks for your service. I'm anxious for you to get home and see what happens for you. I know you are worried, but it's gonna be great for you to see your kids again. It sounds like they really need you now. I also think you need to sort out the question of OM/EA, ect.
hang in there.
Unfortunately Awoken my D14 already knows what's going on. My W made the mistake of telling her just over a month ago, even though we agreed we wouldn't until I got home. Ever since then my D has been over supportive of me and not of her mother. Yes the conversation was as smooth as I described.
After talking to someone close to the situation I've decided to let W go so t speak. I emailed her and told we needed to discuss our financial plan and to set up a time convenient for her. We have set up a phone conversation to discuss what we plan to do with our finances next Wed. The person close to the situation said the reality is she doesn't want to be with me and we're separated right now. No sense trying to kid myself. Why try to stay with someone that doesn't want me. I deserve to be loved and wanted.
I still have hope for the future, but the situation is what it is right now. She had said she wanted me to continue to call her on Thursday's, but I'm going to discontinue that. This will be very difficult, but I have to let her go if she's to ever come back. Once I get home I will GAL (hard to do from here).
Meghunny I would live to do DB coaching, but I just can't afford it having to now support two households. I know it would be helpful and I could use it, but I just can't.
I'm in a Afghanistan unable to sleep and unable to keep my mind off of the situation at home. This isn't anything I ever wanted to go through or that ever want to go through again.
I know it seems like I'm talkingto myself here, but I'm confused. Today I called my wife for our weekly scheduled phone call. She asked me how much time I hd and she put my D4 to bed. She asked why I called D14 on Tuesday, and I told her I always call her on Tuesday. She asked if I could call a different night because that's the night she has IC and isn't home. She want's D14 to concentrate on D4. I agreed and chose another day.
I was very calm on the telephone. She had emailed me from work and said she wanted to talk to me beacause she was angry about the night before. Me calling while D14 was watching D4. I stuck to the points, listened and agreed when needed, and compromised like readjusting the day. We finished the conversation with small talk, and then I got off to go to work. I feel doing and saying all the right things, but the truth is when we meet up face to face.
Towards the end of the conversation she asked about how things would be when I came home. W asked me if I wanted the first few days with the kids when I got home. I replied yes absolutely because I miss them and they miss me. W said she would pick me up form the airport, take us home then she would leave for her friends house. I asked if she literally meant she would drop us off, tag off to me, and leave. She repilied with yes, how did you think it was going to be. I told her I thought we would visit for a little while.
I realize she doesn't want to be with me right now, and I realize she wants to feel things out when I get home. I just have a hard time with the fact i left 6 months ago with what apeared to be a wife that loves me, and I'm going home to one that apears not to. I look forward to getting home and seeing my girls, but I'm not looking forward to what lies ahead.
I haven't read the entire thread yet,
has anyone suggested the possibility of another man?
Seriously, she is getting mad at you for calling your older daughter at home who is watching your younger daughter while your wife is at her "counsellor's" appointment? Why, what would possibly happen while you're on the phone with your daughter, if anything you ask her to bring your younger daughter in the same room as her and all 3 of you could talk on the phone.
You're in Afghanistan, literally a war zone but she says that she's going to pick you up from the airport, drop you off at home so that you can be with the kids and she isn't going to spend anytime talking to you, listening to any new stories/developments, talking about the kids, what's happened while you've been away, maybe share a meal with you and the kids when you return home.
Doesn't this strike anyone else as being extremely cold hearted?
What is at this "friends" house that is so important.
Look I'm not trying to stir up the pot but I follow my intuition and lately I'm just on a hot streak, the WAW behavior is way too predictable once you get you used to spotting the signs.
You said it yourself, you left 6 months ago with what appeared to be a wife that loved you and now you have a wife that doesn't love you. Something doesn't add up, what particular signals this for me is the abrupt, cold, cruel and angry behavior she is exhibiting - what is causing this inside of her.
I'm going to tell you now, you don't have to support 2 households, she's a big girl, if she wants to leave because you're coming home and living in the same house, let her but you don't have to pay her way at another place. You're being too nice and she knows you're afraid to lose her and she uses this and as long as you continue to be too nice she'll get angrier, colder, spiteful and more cruel and I hate telling you this because you're wondering what you have to look forward to when you come home.
Here's your 180 if you want my advice, when you get home, ignore her, when she drops you off at home, just say "yup thanks" and go hang out with the kids. When you get home, have a plan, prepare to go out with the kids, restaurant, somewhere kid friendly & fun, go do something, you've definitely earned it and stop worrying about your wife's actions.
Stop worrying about supporting 2 households, you only have to support the one household you live in, don't make any assumptions yet as to what you owe her, you already have this defeatist attitude which is super unattractive. If she wants to go let her, but you don't have to expect that you have to finance her "waywardness".
Your attitude is this,
let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. The sooner you adopt this mental attitude, the better you will be and the quicker things will turn around.
Something has sparked her new attitude, I guarantee it.
But... I don't want you to start making accusations. You do this the smart way. You do some investigating, speak with friends that you can trust that have been around while you weren't, someone has noticed something peculiar, someone always does, no matter how well people cover their tracks, there is always some loose end that wasn't considered. Watch her attitude, if she's cold, abrasive, angry, almost seems like she's pushing you around and calling the shots, I can tell you that kind of attitude usually gets generated when a spouse is in an affair and they feel like they're angry with you because when they look at you it reminds them that what they're doing isn't necessarily the right thing, they don't like feeling guilty, your image reminds them of this but instead of feeling sad & remorseful, they feel angry because you're in the way of that happiness. My suggestion, let her have her "happiness" but don't finance her new place, let her do the work when it comes to her filing, getting a lawyer and all that stuff. Your attitude will be "you can do all of that just don't expect me to help you do that because I don't have to", plain & simple.
I wish I could offer something different tbart but for now, that's where it stands. Be safe where you are, come home safe for your kids, that's your priority, stay focused on your tasks while you're over there, no one needs to concentrate on this bull$hit when they have such a dangerous occupation.
Be safe!
robx I have looked into that possibility, and there's nothing to it. I've gotten with trusted friends, and it's not the problem. She was acting cold and distant before I left, but I never thought it would turn to this. If you read through my entire post, you'll see this.
I have a plan for when I get home, and it involves the children. Everything is joint and in both names, so until we can be able to split things, which will be awhile, it's like supporting two households. We have an alternate living plan, which I've talked about in here.
In talking to people close to her, these are feelings she harbored and suppressed for years. For some reason they came out after I left because the tension was gone.
My 180 is to let her go and break off all contact. I knew we would be staying at different places when I got home, but i just didn't think it would be right after she dropped me off.
robx I have looked into that possibility, and there's nothing to it. I've gotten with trusted friends, and it's not the problem. She was acting cold and distant before I left, but I never thought it would turn to this. If you read through my entire post, you'll see this.
I have a plan for when I get home, and it involves the children. Everything is joint and in both names, so until we can be able to split things, which will be awhile, it's like supporting two households. We have an alternate living plan, which I've talked about in here.
In talking to people close to her, these are feelings she harbored and suppressed for years. For some reason they came out after I left because the tension was gone.
My 180 is to let her go and break off all contact. I knew we would be staying at different places when I got home, but i just didn't think it would be right after she dropped me off.
STOP!
No one is expected to support 2 households, get this mindset of yours to change. If your wife really wants to leave, she can and you can't do anything about that. But you don't have to pay for another house or apartment, where did you read that this is a requirement for you? She can get a job, she's an adult. Look if she can make the decision to leave you, there are alot of things that happen because of that. She can't expect that you'll pay for her way in life when you're not with her. You can separate your finances, in fact, you can start doing that when you get home or speaking to a bank before that and getting a new chequings/saving account somewhere else and when you get home, start depositing your pay in there.
as for your wife, look if she's been faithful than I'm happy for you that at least she's been loyal enough to do this but her behaviors, specifically the recent ones don't add up. There are umpteen threads where the LBS said the same thing, they were sure that their WAS wasn't involved in any affair whatsoever and then later they find out that their spouse had found someone new.
tbart I recommend you read
SoldierDad's thread. He too was like you. He is about to return home in a day or two.
I agree with Rob's advice. Additionally:
1) Go see a Lawyer ASAP. Don't argue with me, JUST DO IT. Find out EXACTLY what your legal rights are and work accordingly.
2) Separate your finances IMMEDIATELY. She wants to live alone and make a go of it then you should honor her wish. It's called living in reality. Give her a FULL dose of it.
3) Get yourself to independent counseling ASAP. You've been in a warzone. You're going to need some kind of wind-down.
4) Step up and take care of your family. That means you make sure your kids are provided for with shelter, love and support. Be there for them.
My W has worked our entire marriage. She has the financial means to take care of herself, but we have allot to get rid of before we can live separately.
I plan to see an Attorney as soon as I get home as well as counseling. I was in counseling before I came over here.
I will always make sure that I provide for my children. They are my absolute number one priority, and everything I do is for them.
I don't want to take off in a rant like I've seen others do, but is it wrong to start feeling angry? I know these are her feelings and I can't do anything about it. However, I can't help but to start thinking that she's being selfish. i guess from I've read about the WAS there is some selfishness involved.
I've spent so much time feeling sad and depressed, which i still do, but now I'm starting to get pissed. The things she's said to me since she dropped the bomb is so dam hurtful and wrong. I know I haven't been perfect, but you show me a marriage that's perfect, and I'll pull a monkey out of my butt. I know I've been a good man, husband and father, but what i need to realize is this is about her not me.
My ex-wife is engaged, and she told me it took her 17 1/2 years to find someone after we divorced. she said hes the first person in 17 1/2 years that treats her as good as I did, and does the things for her I did. I guess i bring this up because I've spent all this time bashing myself, and I'm really not a bad person. I definitely have some issues to work on, but I'm a good person.
Has anybody given you Sandi2 list of don'ts?? Even if they have here it is again as a reminder, it helps to read this over and over:
1.Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or implore! This turns the spouse completely off!
2. No frequent phone calls to spouse.......let him/her be the one to call you. Then don't try to hang on to your spouse through conversation.....instead, you say good-bye first.
3. Do not point out good points in marriage or try to get him/her to read marriage books, look at your M pictures, etc. Especially, do not get him/her to read the DB/DR book. That is for you only!
4. Do not follow your spouse around the house like a puppy dog trying to get his/her time and attention.
5. Do not encourage talk about the future. They don't want to think about a future with you at the moment, so stay clear of that subject.
6. Do not ask for help from family members or friends. Don't discuss private matters with them that would upset your spouse.
7. Do not ask for reassurances (That is showing neediness and
being clingy.) Show self-respect and self confidence.
8. Do not buy gifts to make "brownie points". (Can't buy his/her love and affection.)
9. Do not schedule dates together at this point. (That is pursuing.) Save for later when the R is much better.
10.Do not spy on spouse by checking emails, phone bills, etc. (Not good for you and will make matters worse.)
11.Do not say "I Love You" (It is being "pushy" and trying to
make your spouse say it back to you......he/she will despise you for it.)
12.Act "as if" you are moving on with your life with or without them and that you are going to be okay. Keep a good attitude.
13.Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive at all times! In other words, be the best you can be and look the best you can look at all times. Even when wearing jeans and T-shirt, wear good cologne, b/c it does cause the spouse to take notice.
14.Don't sit around waiting on your spouse to see what kind of mood he/she is in or what he/she is going to do or say – get busy, think of things to do. Go to church, go out with friends, etc. in order to get a life for yourself without waiting on your wife/husband.....but it is okay to invite them, just don't act as if it will change your plans if they do or don't go.
15.When at home with your spouse, (if you usually start the conversation---then don't, wait for him/her) then, be rather scarce or with your words, but don't sound rude or too short like you are mad. If your spouse asks what's wrong....just say "nothing" and have a pleasant expression on your face. Keep it short and simple. Don't get into an argument! Stay polite and don’ t act like you are pouting. Use poise and class. This does not mean to act like you aren’t speaking, but don’t be overly talkative.
16.If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his/her
whereabouts, ASK THEM NOTHING!! No matter what time he/she comes home! You are giving them space and asking no questions! You enjoy your time with your kids, friends, etc. Remember, you are getting a life, also.
17.You need to make your partner think that you have had an
awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you are going to
move on with your life, with or without your spouse.
18.Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull back and wait
to see if spouse notices and, more important, realize what he/she will be missing. (But never ask him/her if he/she has noticed any changes!!) This is important! If you do, then you have blown it.
19.No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show your spouse happiness and contentment. This can confuse some of them b/c it is not what they expected. Show your spouse someone he/she would want to be around all the time, somebody that can be attractive and fun to be with. That somebody is you! Don't overkill in your attempts to outshine another person your spouse may be having an A with (if there is OP in the picture) to the point of looking like your attempts are "fake" b/c your spouse will see through all of that.
20.All questions about marriage should be put on hold, until
your spouse wants to talk about it (which may be a while)so this takes patient on your behalf.
21.Never lose your cool! Don't let your spouse trap you into a fight. Don't take her/his bait.....leave the room or the house for a while, if you have to, in order to avoid a fight.
22.Don't be overly enthusiastic, don't over-kill; in anything you do b/c it will come across as fake.
23.Do not argue about how your spouse feels about something (it only makes his/her feelings more negative.) Only they know how they feel!
24.Be patient......very, very patient. Give your spouse space and time. When you pull back, it will draw them towards you. It feels opposite of what you want to do, but it works!
25.Listen carefully to what your spouse is really saying to you. Look them in the eyes when they talk to you. Do not interrupt them when they are speaking and stop what you may be working on to look at them when they talk. This shows them that you really care about what they are saying.
26.Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you want to
speak out (or scream and yell).
27.Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh & focus on all
the other parts of your life that are not in turmoil). This is for your health's sake.
28.Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly. Read self
help books, inspirational books or listen to tapes. They are for you only.
29.Know that if you can do 180's, your smallest CONSISTENT
actions will be noticed much more than any words you can say
or write.
30.Do not be openly show that you are "desperate" or "needy" even when you are hurting more than ever and truly feel desperate and needy. This is a large turn-off for your spouse.
31.Do not focus on yourself when communicating with your spouse, instead, focus on them.
32.Do not believe any of what you hear and less than 50% of what
you see. Your spouse will speak in absolute negatives because
he/she is hurting and scared.
33.Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad you feel.
34.Do not ask your spouse if he/she has noticed your changes. Those changes are for you and for the rest of your life...with or without your spouse. If it is just to get your spouse back...they won't last and the same problems will return.
35.Do not send several TM's or emails throughout the day unless absolutely necessary.
36. It is best to stay away from the bar scenes where other problems easily arise.
37. Do not backslide from your hard earned changes.
meghunny I was wanting to find out what kind of stuff they told you to put in your release letter since our stich's are somewhat alike. Unfortunately, private messaging is disabled or else i would have tried to contact you that way. If you can't or won't divulge that's completely understandable.
oh sorry... Ok so the DB coach asked me a whole slew of questions about our marriage and the problems and what sorts of things my husband has told me are problems for him, now i didnt get a whole lot of answers from my H about the problems, i heard it second hand from people that he told it to, like his mother.
So the DB coach told me that i should send him a letter of release (i hadnt wrote him anything in many days and my previous emails to him were just the begging, pleading type) so in my letter, which was only two and half paragraphs long (anything too long, they wont read it) just validating EVERYTHING that I know he does not like or is not happy about. For us that is mostly fighting, him feeling like i dont respect him, and me not trusting him.
So I started off by saying H, I am writing you this letter, not to try to change your mind or your feelings, but to just let you know that I understand where you are coming from and that I get it. We have fought entirely too much over the last 2 years. This marriage has not turned out the way that either of us expected it to. Etc... basically agreeing with everything i know he has said about why he isnt happy. I said I know that you do not want to be in a failing marriage and I do not want that either. Then i said you have given me a huge wake up call and i am glad that you did... i have been doing a ton of self assessing and there are alot of things I need to work on...briefing discusses the respect, trust issues... and i said regardless of what happens with us, i want to change these things, and many other things about myself. I ended it by saying that I would agree with you that whether we stay together or not, i will not regret the last 2 years we had together. SO, i am "releasing" him in a sense... letting him know that I understand why he feels this way, who can argue with a feeling?? Validating his feelings, not holding them against him or making him feel like yeah we had problems but they werent THAT bad... cause to him they are that bad.
SO I sent that letter, and he responded after hearing nothing from him for 3 weeks! he said it was good hearing from me, made some small talk... ended it by saying that he still thinks he made the right decision, "but we well see what happens".... so that was his first sign of softening...but not too much, and that is ok.
if you decide to do this... i would do it later, when you have had time to NOT be begging or pleading... so she can see that you actually took time to think and come to this realization. If you do it too soon, I dont think she will take it seriously. And after my H wrote me, i took a little while to respond to him, and I ONLY answered his questions that he asked me in his email... I didnt say it was good to hear from you too, or anything, just answered questions that he asked like about his mothers health, about the earthquake here in Turkey, etc... and just ended it with "talk to you later". I have learned to stop saying I love you in my emails... too much pressure on him.
I have pretty much done the same thing to no response. We have talked since then obviously, but we're still where we're at. I hope things work out for you, been keeping watch on you. Unfortunately, I have 5 more long weeks to agonize over all this before I get to go home. it's been tough, and i only anticipate it getting tougher. You see my emotions are starting to change. if it wasn't for my two beautiful girls i don't know what would hold me together.
i made the mistake of sending a few emails last week that sounded a little like begging. i didn't mean to have them sound that way, but as i look back on them they sort of were. I guess that's why I'm going to NC, it will be easier for me as well. The last few times we talked i stayed business like. I haven't said or typed i love you to her in quite along time. She knows i love her still, so theres no need to tell her.
If i do write her anything, you're correct about waiting. I don't really understand or get it yet, but it is the way she feels. I can't control how she feels, so all I can do is make it easier instead of harder.
She knows
yeah, as you know, its very important to stay consistant... that is one of the hardest things to do... and im sure it will get alot more difficult for me here in a few days when he is home... but necessary.
Dont feel like you need to make it "easier" for her...dont be a doormat either... really take heed to that list of dont's... did you say you have read the books? I would really advise you to order divorce remedy... I ordered mine from this website and it got here in less than a week and I am overseas too. That would give you 5 weeks to read it and equip yourself with a game plan for when you get home.
As strange as it may sound, my ex wife bought me DR and it's on the way. I know I said I'm letting her go, but I'm not giving up by any means.
Right now at this time I have to treat it like this because can't take the emotional roller coaster she's put me on.
The hardest thing to do is picking a happy medium between doormat and no doormat. At this point anything i so or do to her is the wrong thing. I'm just not good enough at this point it seems. However, I absolutely don't feel that way.
One more quick question. Tuesday is her birthday and i don't want to come off as a jerk. Do you think it would be ok to at least send an email saying happy Birthday?
ex wife as in a wife before this wife? that is kinda funny. Um, birthday birthday...... I think you could send her an email and JUST say Happy Birthday, have a good one....nothing more. You know, kinda informal but still said. The key is to be nice, but a little distant... not pushy. Maybe since you shouldnt call the wife so much, but you still have kids and you dont want to neglect them, you should send them mail, like snail mail... then it could be directly to them with no interaction to your wife? what do you think of that?
i know it's a little strange, but my wife and ex wife are now friends. we all knew each other in high school. the ex was the high school girlfriend, and the current wife was the fling on the side. Funny how things turn out isn't it?
That was what i was thinking of doing, nothing over the top just a quick happy Birthday note. I call my daughter on her cell phone all the time, so we communicate often. when my D4 is awake my D14 will let me talk to her on her cell phone. we also web cam every Sunday.
Does this seem like an adequate release letter. Please all advice would be welcomed.
Obviously I’ve been doing allot of thinking and allot of individual growing. I’ve had time to reflect on me, you, us, and everything else. I never in a million years imagined that you and I would be going down this road. I truly thought that you and I were forever and could work through anything thrown our way. I still hope that with time you and I will be together again one day.
I am writing you this letter, not to try to change your mind or your feelings, but to just let you know that I understand where you’re coming from and that I get it. I know things haven’t been right for some time now. Our marriage and life hasn’t turned out the way that either of us expected it to. I know we haven’t discussed all the issues yet, but the bottom line is you’re not happy in our marriage and because of that neither am I. Neither of us wants to be in a failing marriage. I want us both to be happy whether we’re together or not.
You have given a huge wake up call and I’m thankful that you did. I’ve been doing allot of self assessing and realized there are many things I need to work on. I now know allot of things I could have done differently. I have learned so much about myself, others, and relationships in general. I have made allot of personal growth through all of this, but I know I still have a long way to go. I still need to address and get help with the trust and jealousy issues. I never wanted you to feel isolated, or smothered in any way. I’m sorry you were my crutch for so many years. However, as I said before I welcome these changes and I acknowledge these things and accept the challenge to try and fix them.
Regardless of what happens with us, I still want to make these changes for me and make these changes permanent. I will support any decision made regarding whether or not we remain together. I will not in any way regret the past 17 ½ years we had together. I will remember and cherish them for the rest of my life. I feel truly blessed to have been able to spend those years with you, and I thank you so much for the two beautiful daughters.
I want nothing but success and happiness for you now and in the future.
it's too early in this process for any of this to sound sincere,
she expects you to pursue her and this letter is pursuing regardless if you think it's you "letting go"
- no letters, not yet.
She would just crumple up the paper and throw it out, either that or keep it and file it away and make it look like your some kind of stalker or something.
No letters!
I don't have the intention of sending it now. This is what I have written and ready to go when the time is right. Is a good letter, and when is the time right?
I have been doing a pretty good job with the NC. She emailed me the other day to tell me she had shipped my cell phone to me. Usually I would respond, but I didn't this time. I haven't called her, but I have called my D14 regularly instead.
This morning I woke up to a missed call from her. After breakfast I called back to see what she needed. W wanted to tell me who from my work had volunteered to help with the trailer. Some she didn't like the idea, and another she liked the idea. I mainly listened to what she had to say, and only gave her my impressions if she asked me a specific question.
I cut the conversation short and told her I had to get to work, and to hug and kiss my D4 for me. We stuill have a phone call planned for next Thursday to discuss the financial plan. I will keep it business like, and won't call or email her between now and then.
Its an ok letter... but you need to completely remove the first paragraph anything apologetic... all you want to do is point out, yes these were problems in our marriage. and dont say you will support her decision to stay or not. it is still too nice and a little too pushy
I was thinking the same thing about the first paragraph. What should be worded differently that makes it ok?
why do you have to discuss the financial plan over the phone while you're overseas serving? Why can't it wait the 4 or 5 weeks until you get back, aren't you allowed to concentrate on the task you have at hand without having to add insult to injury. It's ok, you can say it's not convenient for you, it gets your mind out of focus and you need to be focused while you're out there. I would do this, it's simple, I've been thinking about this and my head isn't in the right place to discuss financials with you while I'm serving in Afghanistan, too many things going on over here for me to give this discussion the kind of attention it needs.
Unfortunately it's been very difficult to concentrate on my task at hand. I wish I wasn't taking it like this, but I'm absolutely consumed with what's going on.
It was my idea to discuss the financial plan, because it's been ignored. there's some things we need to make happen in order for us to be able to do this. I know she's talking about ending this, but I still need to inform her of some of the ideas I have to free up some funds. Unfortunately it involves me dipping into my retirement, selling our boat, and trading in my truck for a cheaper one. Everything is in our name, so it needs to be hashed out.
The way she makes it sound, we won't have the opportunity to discuss anything when I get home. For some reason she's afraid to see me. You saw where she wants to drop me off and go. She doesn't want me to talk her out of anything. I'm way beyond that at this point. i don't contact her unless she contacts me, and I've removed my wedding ring.
The way she makes it sound, we won't have the opportunity to discuss anything when I get home. For some reason she's afraid to see me. You saw where she wants to drop me off and go. She doesn't want me to talk her out of anything. I'm way beyond that at this point. i don't contact her unless she contacts me, and I've removed my wedding ring.
Here's the deal, you are letting her lead the show here and you're just going along with it and it's something pretty much all LBH's do. You feel that if you just let go of the need to lead, to set the direction, that your WAW's will be more receptive, loving, caring and change their minds because of this new change in you but it is the wrong thing to do.
If she wants to leave you, fine.
That's should be your attitude.
But she's going to have to see you eventually and spend some time talking about certain matters in person.
I would call or text her and tell her this,
"I've changed my mind, I just can't find the time or mental focus to discuss the financial matters while I'm over here. I have to be honest that I can't think about this the right way while I have so much going on over here, this will unfortunately have to wait until I get back."
Honestly I really don't understand the need you both have to discuss the financial matters such as dipping into your retirement (don't do it), selling the boat (sure maybe but probably a bad idea in this economic environment) and trading in your truck for a cheaper one (cool). Seriously what would be the use? What will this achieve by being discussed over the phone? Why can't this be discussed when you get home? Heck you want to talk about all of this over the phone when you get back, knock yourselves out!
Or is this an excuse you have just to talk to her for an extended period of time? Again I'm just saying that I don't see why it makes any difference, why can't you just leave it till you get back home?
You will have the opportunity to discuss this and many things when you get back home - because that's YOUR call, it can't just be about what's convenient for her, get that out of your mind.
That part about her being afraid to see you, what's up with that? You've been gone for several months and she doesn't even want to see you at all? Seriously, something's going on - either with her or with you, something isn't adding up properly here.
i really want to wait until I get home to have this conversation, but i was thinking of doing some of these things before i leave. I was actually having this conversation as a final talk. I haven't been, nor do i plan to call her between now and the time i get home. i really don't like extended talks with her right now, that's why I don't even bother to call.
I was actually given the advice to call and set up this conversation by a close friend going through the same thing. the difference is the person giving me the advice is the WAW in her relationship. I keep getting advice from all different directions and that's what makes it hard.
I don't quite understand the point of not seeing me right away either. She said some time ago she's afraid of me changing her mind. I'm really confused by this as well. I know what you're thinking, and I've explored that avenue. I have confirmation from multiple sources that's not the situation.
I may wait to have this talk, I'm not sure it's difficult to decide. Like I said there's a few things I wanted to get the ball rolling on before I get home.
I was recently talking to someone that's been playing neutral in this. I had told her that it bothers me that my wife and i have a marriage issue that can be repaired. The friend responded by telling me that the marriage situation wasn't repairable at this time because only one of us wants to repair it. I gave this some thought and realized she's correct.
it was at hat point that I realized I had to go NC and in a sense let my wife go. The friend is also the one that told me i shouldn't go home and want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me, and that I deserved better than that. None of this makes me feel any better, it takes all hope I had away.
My daughter phoned me this morning and said how sad she was. She said she misses me and wants me home, but she knows things won't be the same when I return. I tried to calm her by telling her that we don't know how things will be when I return, but that we will be together. D14 said my W was telling someone that it's not official, but her and I may be getting a divorce. Mt D14 has asked her to not talk about these things in her presence, but she still does. My W tells my D14 that her and my D4 are her top concerns. How is this possible if this is how she acts, and the fact that she's concrete in this decision?
I've got people telling me that I need to contact my wife and ask her to please not be doing this in my D14 presence. I know she'll justt tell me mt D14 is just playing us, which is true to an extent, but my D14 is really upset. My W is thinking of no one but herself right now. I'm also afraid if I call my wife and ask her to not do this in front of my daughter it will come as demanding and controlling. How do I approach this situation,or do I just continue to comfort D14 and ignore W?
you really need to read DR.... it tells you very clearly in there that you cannot listen to friends and family. They do not want to see you hurt and they cannot understand the situation and they will more often than not tell you things like your friend told you. Of course that is discouraging. Only you know when you should give up and nobody else knows that. In fact, you can read the first chapter of the book where it talks about this on this website, go to the open forums page and you should see Divorce Remedy and in there it has the first chapter. I suggest that you have no contact and wait to get the book, read it, and then proceed with a plan. I think that even though you dont feel like your actions are pursuing, you still have a little bit of pursuing tendencies in you. I know that this whole thing consumes you every day all day, it consumes me as well. But I think once you get your hands on that book you will understand this a little better and feel more confident that you CAN turn this around.
Thank you meghunny, still waiting for the book to arrive. Other than getting rid of the first paragraph, what otheer improvements should I make to my letter. and when is it not to early? Her and I have been dealing with this for two months now. If i send it now, would it be considered pursuing or too early? So much confusion it's killing me.
Ok the whole first paragraph has to go, if I were to re-write your letter I would say something like this:
I am writing you this letter, not to try to change your mind or your feelings, but to just let you know that I understand where you’re coming from and that I get it. I know things haven’t been right for some time now. Our marriage and life hasn’t turned out the way that either of us expected it to. I know we haven’t discussed all the issues yet, but the bottom line is neither of us wants to be in a failing marriage. I want us both to be happy whether we’re together or not.
You have given me a huge wake up call and I’m thankful that you did. I’ve been doing alot of self assessing and realized there are many things I need to work on. I understand that I have trust and jealousy issues and regardless of what happens with us, I want to make these changes for me and make these changes permanent. I do not want to continue having those issues in any relationship, now or in the future. Whether we stay together or not, I will not in any way regret the past 17 ½ years we had together and I am very thankful for our two beautiful daughters.
Thats all I would say. If you have any further insight as to other problems she has in the M maybe you could throw those in there just to cover all the issues that you do know she has. But your previous version still sounded too clingy and desperate. It just has to be about validating that yes there are problems, yes you are right there are problems. Because what we tend to try to do is make it seem like yes there are problems BUT they arent that bad or yes there are problems BUT they arent that big of a deal, etc... and even though that is how we feel about the problems that is clearly not how they feel, so in our desperate attempts to get them to stay with us we try to change their mind and THAT pushes them further away, like we just dont get it. So all you want to express is that you DO get it. As soon as I did that, i think it made my H more comfortable to talk to me and now he tells people instead of yes I am divorcing her, he now says, now i dont know what im going to do... thats a big turn around, obviously its not there yet and i still have alot more work to do... but its progress none the less. It might make you feel like you are saying yup you know what this marriage sucked, and that would make them agree and want to leave even more, but it doesnt have that effect. They want to be heard and understood, not convinced that what they are feeling is wrong. I would wait and send your letter in a week or so after having no contact.
tbart, sorry this is happening...
why do you feel the need to write the letter? You've told her this already haven't you?
I would wait on it...I've only skimmed your sitch so forgive me if I missed why the letter is important.
I agree w/ Rob, the financial stuff will need to wait. If she has questions she can e-mail you...good job on the NC...it's a better place to be...i'm right there w/ you.
W moves out today, I slept like 2 hours and not feeling very PMA...
All will be Ok
meghunny thank you for the assistance on the letter. I can't help but to write things that appear clingy, because obviously I'm still trying to hang on a bit.
I have told her these things maynard2121, but I've also followed up with the wrong things to say. I have appeared clingy at times. I wan't her to realize that I'm willing to move on with this, and not hold her back on her decision. I've heard that she feels I'm not going to be cooperative and make this difficult.
Maybe the letter isn't important, but it's not like me to write the things that are in the letter meghunny suggested. It's more like me to apologize, agree to change, and give hope for the future. At this point I really don't know what to do. My gut and heart are saying twio totally different things.
I want her to know I ackowlege issues in the marriage. However, in all reality I still don't agree they're divorce warranted, but the rality is she feels that way. I thought the letter would give her some comfort in knowing I won't make this difficult.
No I don't want the divorce or the seperation, but the reality is what it is. I can't change her feelings without changing the behaviors and attitudes she feels is wrong. As we all know these are very confusing situations for us all.
I understand...what I'm afraid of is it could be further pursuit.
I know what you mean about the 180 and doing something you used to not do...and if it is indeed a Release Letter, just be sure to NEVER mention what it says again.
I've had the problem and I found that I turned into a broken record...a big no-no
I wasnt shooting you down, I was just curious
Wish you the best
No i completely understand what you mean. I feared it would come across as pursuing as well, that's why I asked for opinions. I haven't said any of those things to her before, so it would be a new one for me. However, not so sure she would believe i mean it, but at this point I'm so frustrated by her I mean it.
She just called me to let me talk to my D4. i haven't been calling her, but this is twice in 4 days she's called me. I keep it short when her and I speak.
I was recently talking to someone that's been playing neutral in this. I had told her that it bothers me that my wife and i have a marriage issue that can be repaired. The friend responded by telling me that the marriage situation wasn't repairable at this time because only one of us wants to repair it. I gave this some thought and realized she's correct.
it was at hat point that I realized I had to go NC and in a sense let my wife go. The friend is also the one that told me i shouldn't go home and want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with me, and that I deserved better than that. None of this makes me feel any better, it takes all hope I had away.
My daughter phoned me this morning and said how sad she was. She said she misses me and wants me home, but she knows things won't be the same when I return. I tried to calm her by telling her that we don't know how things will be when I return, but that we will be together. D14 said my W was telling someone that it's not official, but her and I may be getting a divorce. Mt D14 has asked her to not talk about these things in her presence, but she still does. My W tells my D14 that her and my D4 are her top concerns. How is this possible if this is how she acts, and the fact that she's concrete in this decision?
I've got people telling me that I need to contact my wife and ask her to please not be doing this in my D14 presence. I know she'll justt tell me mt D14 is just playing us, which is true to an extent, but my D14 is really upset. My W is thinking of no one but herself right now. I'm also afraid if I call my wife and ask her to not do this in front of my daughter it will come as demanding and controlling. How do I approach this situation,or do I just continue to comfort D14 and ignore W?
OK I'm going to give this to you straight because you're still discussing release letter nonsense - NO LETTERS.
You are way too early in all of this to be writing letters and WAWs will not read anything in this letter and snap out of their fog. They're also not going to see that you're being understanding about all of this. They're in a state where they don't care, none of your words, no matter how well intentioned will reach them in the way that you intend them. You want to release her? Detach without writing a letter, let her be. Let her go.
As for your wife and how's she talking.
I said it before that maybe there's another man in the picture, if there isn't, I think she's prepping for it. Going around announcing publicly that she's maybe getting divorced so that everyone knows she's going to be single, this a WAW reflex. But regardless of her intentions here, you need to focus on something more important. Her discussing divorce openly & publicly and in front of your kids without you being there. That's a huge boundary violation - how dare she discuss this matter with your kids without you being there, that's horrible and very disrespectful and look whats happening, she making her kids feel bad because of it. That's an announcement that should have been made by both of you together in the same room with your children so that they could hear it from both of you, be reassured that you both love them regardless of this and to answer any questions they have. If her daughters are her main concerns, she would be openly discussing in front of them & others that you two are going to get a divorce, she needs to smarten up and YOU need to tell her that. Your daughter isn't playing you and I'll tell you why, she didn't have to know about the divorce at all until you got back home, what was the use of telling her before you got back? This is another indicator that she's in her WAW fog and something's up, when they start putting their own needs ahead of their kids to the point where they disregard the impact of certain discussions in front of their children.
So scrap this letter idea, it was a bad idea to begin with. Get on the horn with the wife, tell her that regardless if she wants a divorce or not, it wasn't the correct thing to discuss in front of the kids without you being there. Stand up for yourself, you're allowed, you don't have to be an a$$hole or a prick but you do have to stand up for yourself, she's expecting you to be weak and docile and allow her to walk all over you during this time, it's a reflex they have when they go through this, they feel stronger than you, so much so that they start disrespecting you openly in front of you & others. No more divorce talk in front of the kids until you get back and then you will discuss it in person together with the kids!
I have tore into her for telling my daughter before came home. She realizes it was mistake and regrets telling her. It was an emotional reaction when I told her I was coming home and I planned to stay in my house. My daughter has beenn leaning on me for support, and I'll always be there for her. My two daughters are what's most important and keeping me sane.
i agree with the release letter not being given to her. i sent an email along those lines, but with more pursuing in it and it did nothing for her. I have stopped the contact, and now she's been contacting me. Like I said I keep it short and business like.
there's an organization that offers free wilderness expeditions to Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans. I Facebooke'd my daughter the link and asked her what she thought of the trip I wanted to go on. My wife called this morning to let me talk to D4. When she talked to me she asked about the trip I wanted to go on and how much it was. I told her it was all expense paid. The point is my D14 never told her about it. The only way she could have found out was to check out my daughters Text messages because she has Facebook going to her phone.
Now my D14 and I know my wife is looking. I know she's been checking my D14's stuff even before our stitch, but now she's questioning private stuff between my daughter and I.
good job scrapping the letter- like I said, I've written books of letters like a moron, till I started reading and posting here.
I'm still consumed and torn up inside over this, but I've been different the last couple of days. My friends deployed here with me have noticed a little bit of my old self coming out. They've caught me smiling, laughing, and joking around. Being my old humorous fun to be around self. My W has stripped these abilities from me with the state she's put me in.
My W emailed me this morning to tell me my daughter is sick and she's taking her to the doctors today. she also told me about some mail she received that i had been expecting, and for me t let her know when I receive the package she sent over for me (some spray gel and my cell phone). Keep in mind I haven't called her in a week. She's called twice and emailed once.
I'm fortunate to be deployed somewhere in Afghanistan with some amenities. I actually went and got a massage to relieve all this tension. For the first time in awhile I did something I wanted to do for me. I feel quite a bit more relaxed than I have in some time.
I just logged on to facebook to send my W a happy birthday message. i saw an old friend/boyfriend send her a message that said happy Birthday thank you for the post card. I'm freaking out, and I'm ready to ask her about it.
I had no choice but to call and ask her about this. She said he had sent her a post card when he was in Hawaii, so she sent him one from New Orleans. He was never really a boyfriend of hers, just a good friend when she needed it years ago. I'm probably reading too much into this, and I truly hope I am. I really hope I haven't sent things backwards by calling her on this. I wasn't mean or anything I just asked the question and left it at that.
tbart01,
You wrote "My W has stripped these abilities from me with the state she's put me in."
She didn't strip you of anything. You're actually stripping yourself of these things, which is understandable under the conditions you find yourself in. The desperation, hopelessness and powerlessness are all part of the process we go through. You need to understand you are giving her the power over you. Our suffering comes from playing the victim as if someone else actually has power over us.
You made a mistake calling her about the Facebook message. Ask yourself this - Why did you need to know? Would it actually change anything in the situation by knowing the answer? You think the worst, she gives you an answer that is not the worst case scenario, but I'll wager good money your mind is now in the loop wondering if she is actually telling the truth. This will now swirl in your head like the question you had before you called her. You can't escape this mental masturbation by chasing down every detail of her life.
I understand the compulsion to know - it's a control mechanism. We somehow believe if we know the "total truth" then and only then can we fix it. You can't fix anything except yourself.
The hardest thing someone needs to do (I know this from my own situation) is to detach. Detachment has a mind of its own, but until it hits you, you have to fake it. Keep her out of your head - easier said than done but it's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO!
I can't say this enough, and it was drilled into my head on a daily basis on these boards.
DETACH
DETACH
DETACH
The last thing a WAS wants is to be questioned about their lives, their motives, their thoughts, their feelings, etc... It pushes them away because they get the same feelings that put you two in this position.
You have no control. You have to let her be and 'let her go' so to speak. Focus on you and let her do her thing. Don't read into anything.
I know this all easier said then done, but it's necessary and you're only hope of changing the 'seemingly apparent' course you are on.
Sometimes backwards is forward.
I agree with everyone who said don't send the letter. I've been there/done that. It only pushes them further away.
robx made a good point about standing up for yourself.
Think assertive. It's firm in a neutral POV. Take the emotions out and stand up for yourself. No attack or defense.
As robx points out, the balance of power totally shifts to them. My W took that power and actually wielded it like a sword...lol. I think back at how freaking spineless I was and this is again another mistake we all make in the name of 'not rocking the boat'. But pick your battles wisely.
They all run a script. And reading your back story here and things like, "she's only thinking about herself", can't she see this marriage is repairable (no she can't. Somehow they've gotten hold of a crystal ball and can predict the future), etc..This all the same behaviors they all show. Think of her as a robot who is running a program, then remember she can't help doing what she's doing, jump off the roller coaster and watch her go up and down.
DETACH
i know you're correct, but you also know harder said than done. In my sitch is even more difficult because I'm not even there to deal with it. Unfortunately i have yet to be able to face the music so to speak because i haven't even arrived home.
i didn't want this to bother me, nor did i want to call her. My emotions and wandering mind are getting the best of me.
I screwed up with this one. I called and apologized for making a big deal out of this. She said she was angry and wasn't going to get over it because I seem to be apologizing for the same crap.
Why do i keep doing this stuff? I have been doing so good lately, but this one just struck me to where I had to call and ask. Then I made it worse by calling and apologizing. I knew I was wrong on both fronts, but I just couldn't stop myself.
I hope I can still make things right with time. I hope I haven't set things so far back I just screwed myself.
I feel like such a dang jack ass. It's her birthday and I just ruined it for her. I really have a long ways to go in fixing myself. I want these insecurities to go away so bad. I can't wait to get home and get the C I so badly need.
you're insecure because your wife's leaving you,
acknowledge this fear and the emotions attached to it, you're not going to be able to detach until this is done, cry in the shower if you have to but let it out, if you have to, do this a few times and then that's it! You're sounding really needy, insecure and trust me, it ain't helping with your WAW situation so stop it!
Man robx how correct you are. I have been spending this entire time knowing I had flaws, but not understanding why my wife would want to leave me. Today for the first time i understand. My jealousy has caused her to back off from having friends. After seeing how I acted this morning, i see it as clearly as I ever have.
Since I've been deployed it's allowed her to talk to people she felt she couldn't talk to because of my jealousy. She's been going to friends and hanging out with friends. This woman has never given me a reason to not trust her, and this is what i put her through.
i have been making improvements in myself, but I really need to work on not being so jealous. i don't want to be needy, but right now i am because of what I'm going through and where i am. At the same time i truly feel for my W.
i want so badly to shed these insecurities. i want to be trusting. these things will make me a better person to anyone. i don't blame her for feeling isolated. i may not have come out and told her not to do these things, by my actions and reactions have showed her otherwise.
I fear my actions of today have solidified our fate before i even get home. I was feeling really good about myself until i slipped up big time today. i don't feel sorry for myself, but i sure am angry as hell at myself.
The only good to come out of this latest set back is the fact that I now realize some things I didn't clearly see before. I know what I need to tackle first thing for self improvement.
Since I've been deployed I've trusted her with everything she's done. She's gone on mini vacations and gone out with friends with no hassle from me. However, she knows I've always had issue with this one individual.
She said she sent post cards to other people as well, but the difference is they didn't post to Facebook. I wish these stupid little things didn't bother me like they do, and it kills me to see her upset over it.
Is it wrong of me to feel like a jack ass right now, or am i beating myself up too much?
Does anyone else see me as screwed as I think I am?
We just spoke briefly,and she acted fine with me. I wished her a happy Birthday (since I screwed up this morning), and she said thank you. She told me about her day and that my D4 and D14 had printed up happy birthday pictures, colored them, and hung them all over my wifes bathroom. She said that made her day, I asked my D14 to do something like that for her this morning.
At least she ended up having a good day even though it started out bad. I'm thankful to my daughters for doing that for her.
I will chalk this up as another lesson learned (unfortunately the hard way), and use it to improve myself. I have a long road ahead, but that's why we're at these forums right?
Any comments or advice at this point would be greatly welcome. I have 4 more weeks and then I go home to face the music so to speak.
When I go back in three weeks, how do I act? My W will be picking me up at the airport with my children and taking me home and then she's leaving. At least that's the plan How do I act when i first see her? Remember it's her that doesn't want me. This is an unusual situation being that I've been gone for this entire process. I'm just wondering whatthe proper way to act around her should be?
I'm starting to go a little crazy. My mind is startingto wander the closer i get to going home. It's difficult to process the fact that the woman I left will not be the woman I'm returning to. It's also difficult to know there will be no physical contact between her and I.
I obviously still love her, and I'm still physically attracted to her. I've been away for six months, and this isn't the reunion I had envisioned. it's really starting to get me down to know she won't have any interest in me when I return.
i feel your pain tbart.... my H comes home tomorrow and I am scared to death about all those same things. This homecoming was supposed to be VERY different than what it is going to be. I cant imagine sharing this house with a person who doesnt love me and doesnt want to be with me. I am not sure if he will try to be intimate with me, but I am scared for him to do that if all he is going to do is still leave me afterwards. Or have him completely reject me and want to be nowhere near me... it scares me to death. The only thing that even kind of helps me is to try to mentally detach from him... try to act as if this D is really definitly going to happen (which it prob is) and try to tell myself that I dont want to be with this person he has turned into... even if I do end up being with him, its all i can do to stay sane right now is to talk myself into feeling that I dont want this, i dont deserve this, and i do not like this person he is now. WHich is true, I dont. Of course I still love him... of course i still pray for a miracle... maybe you can take comfort in knowing that God will take care of this for you, if it is going to be it will be, even if its a long bumpy road to get there, and if its not meant to be, and there is someone else that needs you more than your W does... well you can take comfort in the fact that a day will come when you ARE happy again. I know its easier said than done, but just give it a try.
meg this is definitely a difficult situation for the both of us. It's hard enough to deal with when you're there with them, but we've had to do this while not being with them. I have already come to the conclusion that I'm returning home a separated man. It's not what i had envisioned for my return, but that's the reality.
I hope you're able to remain strong, and withhold any returns if he makes advances. What he did needs to be dealt with and not rewarded. he has hurt you, and you don't need to feel played.
i wish it could be like magic, and everything will return to normal once i return home. This however isn't reality, but I will carry on. I know I will be better and stronger for going through this.
I know that when I return home, the two most important ladies in my life will be there waiting for me. That is something that can never be taken away from me.
You have been jealous why? What is the root of jealousy? I imagine based on my own experience is because we want to limit their contact with other people who could 'steal' them away from us. Perhaps you are afraid you really aren't enough and you have to control (that's right, jealousy is a a control issue)the people and your environment to make it 'safe' so you don't have to experience you're fears - ie: Her leaving you for another man.
I would imagine this is the root of your jealousy. Jealousy is a symptom not a cause.
The ironic thing is this: The thing we fear and try to avoid - the behavior that we think we need to avoid realizing that fear is the very thing that creates the situation to actually happen.
You are afraid you will lose something you think is yours. So in order to avoid that from happening you need to control the person and environment to keep it her away from anything that may want to 'steal' her. Whenever she is close to someone or in an environmental condition that threatens you, you get jealous. You push this jealousy into her as if she's doing something wrong. She feels this and pulls away. The more she pulls away, the more you feel your fear coming to fruition, the more jealous you get, etc... The situation becomes a self perpetuating machine.
Calling her to apologize was a mistake - but you already know this. Next time, before you call, post it here and get some feedback. If you had, I'll bet you wouldn't have made that call.
I know exactly how you feel. I was there too. The only difference is I have the gift of hindsight. There are hundreds of people like me who can sit here and give you advice. I can't tell you how many people gave me great advice here. I made mistakes, I fell down, got up and dusted off - and if I couldn't get up, someone here stepped up and picked me up.
You want to know how you should act when you come home. Act like nothing is going on. Act like what is happening is having absolutely no impact on you whatsoever. Act like it's just another event in your life. Will you be able to do this? I doubt it...at least I couldn't when I was in your position. I can do it now, because frankly, I don't really give a [censored] anymore. I've been detached for quite some time now.
But you must do it to the best of your ability for where you are right now.
ANY EFFORT TO RECONCILE, APOLOGIZE, EXPLAIN, CONVINCE, ARGUE, BEING NICE, BEING AN ASS - anything at all, will push her further away. Let me repeat, IT WILL PUSH HER FURTHER AWAY.
The sad thing is you can't make detachment happen. It happens when it does - no sooner or later. You can only do your best. In time that best will better than it was.
I see a lot of projection in your posts. The future is going to be such and such... You need to get rid of this. It's a control issue. You have absolutely no idea what is going to happen. You're basing in what you think you know of what's going on right now. But you don't even have a clear picture of what is going on right now, never mind the future.
How do you know she won't be at the airport to pick you up, a bag hits her in the head and everything changes? How do you know she doesn't glance around and see something that points her in a different direction? You don't. So stop trying to guess.
This is what I think you need to do:
Be upbeat. No crying, puppy dog looks, feeling sorry for yourself, hoping, wanting, wishing, regret, etc...if you're thinking it, she'll feel it.
Do not under any circumstances:
Talk about relationship, marriage, future, etc.. If she brings it up be careful because you will probably go into one of the modes you don't want to be in because it will push her away.
Argue or defend or justify or negate her feelings. This is a no brainer but sometimes difficult to do. If you find yourself in this position politely excuse yourself from the conversation and go somewhere and do something physical. Or post it here if you can.
Do not be overly nice or overly polite or overly giving. No matter what you do she will think you are only doing it because you want her back. That's how I started off that way when I first came here. But after a while that all changed. It turned into saving myself and not saving my marriage as the focus point. And that made all the difference.
I think that's enough for now. Digest all the posts that are here from all these people who in a similar situation.
Oh, one last thing:
DETACH DETACH DETACH
And just because I said it's easier said than done, don't use that as an excuse for not doing it. Your mind should be focused on detaching. Use it as a mantra, repeating it over and over again in your head or out loud when no one is around.
I know I will be better and stronger for going through this.
If you follow the advice you get here and in Michelle's book:
You have no idea how true your words are.
I look back now and see that what I went through has turned me into the man I wanted to be instead of the man I had become. Perhaps this was the only way I could have gotten to where I am.
Something I forgot to add above:
There are two tracks running right now. Her track and your track. They are completely different tracks. You need to keep your eye on yours, and keep them off of hers.
If she talks to you about anything to do with the R just validate her feelings...even if you think they are 'wrong'. She will re-write the past, embellish events, say things that didn't happen, etc... it's a script. Don't buy into any of it..they are just words. Do not try to defend, justify or somehow try to convince her that what she believes, thinks and feels is somehow wrong. It's her experience, let her have it.
Steady thank you for the advice. My jealousy is a deep rooted issue from my childhood. i was attending counseling for it before i had to deploy, and will continue to do so when I return home.
I know I need to detach, and I have done a fairly decent job at it. However, it's difficult when you have children to talk to and you're deployed. I only talk to her when she calls me, except for my slip up the other day.
I have had revelations the last few days on what I need to work on with myself. I've fixed allot of my flaws, but some take more time than others.
I really do look forward to going home and standing on my own two feet. it's not something I planned or wanted to do, but I have no choice but to do so. I know I can do it, but I've never had to, and I invite the challenge.
I will take the time to read those posts and your sitch. I'm still waiting for my copy of DR to arrive, and I will read it more than once.
Steady i just re-read everything you wrote to me, and I must say it's all wonderful advice. I just hope I can adhere to it. Like I said before, it doesn't really become a reality until I get home and live it. I just hope that when i get home I will be able to do all things I've been told here, and what I will learn from DR once it finally arrives.
tbart, what branch of the military are you in? And how long have you been in?
When I have more time I will respond so some of your earlier posts. You've gotten awesome advice by a lot of people here and it's easy to not go back. I'd suggest you go back to page 1 and SLOWLY read through until you get to this post. You'll see all the advice and posts from a different perspective.
You have a lot to absorb in a short period of time. Put yourself in war mode. Now war against your W, but war against yourself - gear up. You can do this. If you can stand in the battle zone, you certainly can do what you need to do to fight this battle.
You're not allowing your training to come through. Now we'll integrate that training you got and apply it to the sitch you're in.
I've been in the Air Force for 20 years.
Today I recieved a Facebook message from a friend of ours who said she s done with my W. She says she has several times over the last couple weeks e-mailed her, facebooked her and texted her about getting together for lunch, dinner, drinks, coffee, anything just to catch up and W has ignored. She says the issues between the W and I started before I deployed.
The part I don't like is when the friend said she has kept her mouth shut because she doesn't want to get involved with what is going on with us because she cares about us both. She says she's pissed off that there is so much she want's to tell me but she doesn't want to be the bad guy and possibly ruin our progress. She also thinks my W can be a vindictave bitch, and if things are working out between us than thats great and she doesn't want to add fuel to the fire. She says maybe she will tell me everything in good time.
I'm really not sure how to take this message and what I should do about it. Naturally I want to know and obviously I'm thinking the worse. I can't handle any more than I already know until I get home.
This is already starting to bring me down. I had to go see a doctor because things just weren't right with me. I was shaking, upset stomach, constant headaches. The stress and emotions have just been all the place for me. He did a complete work up and I was healthy. Unfortunately, their now sending me over to mental health to be evaluated.
I just don't know what to do right now.
do I go ahead and let the friend tell me what she knows. It me something i already know, but it could also be new information I really can't handle right now. i am confused as ever, and really could have gone without the message, as i was already not holding up very good.
yes but be prepared for the worst,
remember what we've discussed already.
And just because you have information, doesn't mean that when you get home, this info is a loaded gun and you start shooting your mouth off about everything. Intelligence is everything, gather your facts, find out whatever needs to be found out and if you hear back before going back home, post your findings here and we'll help you through this.
In the end, anticipation and fear of whatever thoughts you have in your head are worse than whatever you will actually find out, trust me, been there, done that, you will survive.
I spoke to the friend and it wasn't as bad as I thought, but it's still not good.
I was told that she wanted me to deploy so she could work on getting prepared for this divorce. She told the friend that she was hoping it was for a year, because she knows the law in our state requires you to not be living under the same roof for 1 year before a divorce can be final.
She used to tell the friend that she was going to put the house up for sale and get herself a little house to rent, and that they would have to go shopping to decorate it.
She already knows how much she's going to get for child support, and that she gets half my retirement. Even though my D14 wan't to live with me she won't let her.
She was talking about getting a restraining order against me when I return because she doesn't know how I'm going to react. She wanted someone to come with her when she picks me up from the airport. She's kept all the emails I've sent her since I've been here to use with her lawyer if i give her any problems when I get home.
Basically what I got from the friend is that my W has been planning this since before Ii deployed, which I've known. However, allot of this has changed because she never followed through with some of her plans.
Allot of this does have to do with money like I had mentioned in earlier posts. She blames me for us not being where she thinks we should be financially. She mentioned that if shes going to be broke and married she might as well be single and married.
It really does hurt me to know that the entire time I've been deployed, she's been planning our divorce. I know however that her behavior and the things she's said to other people have shown that she's confused about everything.
It's almost like she puts on this tough exterior, but inside she's confused. I know the reality is she thinks she wants a D most of the time, but sometimes she's not sure.
This all just reinforces the fact that I need to go home and move on. I need to plan on life without her, and whatever happens will happen.
This new information isn't a total shock, but i was surprised to hear how deep her plan has been. She was planning this the entire time I was gone.
I really don't know what to do with this new information. Should i confront her on some of these things or just let it go? It's going to eat me up inside I know that. these were thoughts she had 3 months ago, and the friend doesn't know what she's doing now. They really don't speak that much anymore.
i really don't know what to do with this new bit of information, and if this changes anything.
Do I ask her about any of it?
nope, you don't confront her about any of this yet, you would just make her more angry because now you've been snooping and gathering intel, there's more still to come, wait & see, one thing I notice is that you're in reaction mode: she does something and you react, get out of that routine asap it doesn't help your sitch at all
It's difficult to not want to react because I'm still 8000 miles away with my hands tied behind my back. I wouldn't say any of this to her now. Actually, I'm not really sure this changes anything because it's nothing I didn't already know. With this not being a total surprise, it doesn't change my course or path.
I just don't understand how someone you could love and care about so much turn on you. It's difficult to fathom that she would want me to deploy to a combat zone so she could plan our divorce.
She had mentioned to this friend the possibility of getting a restraining order against me when returned, and to have someone with her when she picked me up at the airport. I have never in all our marriage given her a reason to fear me or think that I would hurt her.
I just want to go home, see my girls and move on. I in no way would want to remain married to her the way she is currently acting. I'm going to go home and get on with myself. If she doesn't change and decide to work on this, that's on her. All I can do is worry about me and my girls.
I'm not saying I've been the perfect H, but I certainly haven't done anything to deserve this. She had mentioned to the friend that she wanted this to be for a year, but when I asked her a few months back if she wanted me to extend it for a year she said no.
She cried to friends and family once she found out where I was going. She wanted me to deploy, just not to a combat zone. She even went through rough emotional times about me being here since I've been here.
This woman is all over the map emotionally. Unfortunately, it's got me all over the map in a place i need my total focus. I don't want to over analyze everything she says or does, but it's difficult to not do that right now.
I know her plan hasn't materialized like she imagined. I'm sure from her actions and words to others and myself that she's confused as well. I won't really know how far she's gone until I get home. This is going to be 3 1/2 very long weeks.
I'll need your guys help more than ever in the coming days. Just please keep watch on me, and help me not to do something stupid.
You wrote "My W has stripped these abilities from me with the state she's put me in."
She didn't strip you of anything. You're actually stripping yourself of these things, which is understandable under the conditions you find yourself in. The desperation, hopelessness and powerlessness are all part of the process we go through. You need to understand you are giving her the power over you. Our suffering comes from playing the victim as if someone else actually has power over us.
You made a mistake calling her about the Facebook message. Ask yourself this - Why did you need to know? Would it actually change anything in the situation by knowing the answer? You think the worst, she gives you an answer that is not the worst case scenario, but I'll wager good money your mind is now in the loop wondering if she is actually telling the truth. This will now swirl in your head like the question you had before you called her. You can't escape this mental masturbation by chasing down every detail of her life.
I understand the compulsion to know - it's a control mechanism. We somehow believe if we know the "total truth" then and only then can we fix it. You can't fix anything except yourself.
The hardest thing someone needs to do (I know this from my own situation) is to detach. Detachment has a mind of its own, but until it hits you, you have to fake it. Keep her out of your head - easier said than done but it's THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU CAN DO!
I can't say this enough, and it was drilled into my head on a daily basis on these boards.
DETACH
DETACH
DETACH
The last thing a WAS wants is to be questioned about their lives, their motives, their thoughts, their feelings, etc... It pushes them away because they get the same feelings that put you two in this position.
You have no control. You have to let her be and 'let her go' so to speak. Focus on you and let her do her thing. Don't read into anything.
I know this all easier said then done, but it's necessary and you're only hope of changing the 'seemingly apparent' course you are on.
Sometimes backwards is forward.
The above is a quote from a couple days ago from Steady..
Hi tbart, I've been off these boards a long long time but wanted to tell you that you need to reread what Steady said above and let it REALLY sink in. My sitch is kind of opposite of yours...I'm the one that wants out and I can assure you that the detachment is what you NEED to do for yourself. Different circumstances - since I'm not sure why your W wants out, but I will try to give you the opposite perspective. My main goal right now is to reiterate what Steady has said above. You need to accept what may happen and work on being ok with either outcome BEFORE you return home. It's excellent advice. It's hard to detach. I've been living in my turmoil for over 3 years and I couldn't honestly say I detached until a few months ago. Its a process and you need to start practicing.
It's difficult to not want to react because I'm still 8000 miles away with my hands tied behind my back. I wouldn't say any of this to her now. Actually, I'm not really sure this changes anything because it's nothing I didn't already know. With this not being a total surprise, it doesn't change my course or path.
You're right, it doesn't change anything. The past is dead so don't ponder it. My W told me she had planning a D for years. We moved from VA to NY and she told me one of the reasons she wanted to do that was because it was better for her to get D in NY and she wanted to be near her family for support. I have no idea how much of this is true because she re-wrote so much of the past that I don't trust anything that comes through her lips. It doesn't matter how long she's been planning it.
IT IS AT IS. Things are exactly as they are RIGHT NOW. That's the only thing you can deal with. Forget the future because you have no idea how any of this is going to work out until you get there.
I just don't understand how someone you could love and care about so much turn on you. It's difficult to fathom that she would want me to deploy to a combat zone so she could plan our divorce.
Dude, I feel you here. You don't understand because you aren't her. I can't understand how my W could possibly be fighting me on 50/50 physical custody of my kids. But the fact is she is and that's the only thing I can deal with. I don't need to understand why or how she can do this in order to take actions to protect myself and try to get what I feel is rightfully mine.
She had mentioned to this friend the possibility of getting a restraining order against me when returned, and to have someone with her when she picked me up at the airport. I have never in all our marriage given her a reason to fear me or think that I would hurt her.
My W attempted to do the same thing. I don't know what state you're in but in NY they won't issue an order unless their is past evidence of behavior that is in line with violence or abuse. I was deeply hurt that she even tried to get one. It was a major thing that she could possibly think I would ever hurt her.
I just want to go home, see my girls and move on. I in no way would want to remain married to her the way she is currently acting. I'm going to go home and get on with myself. If she doesn't change and decide to work on this, that's on her. All I can do is worry about me and my girls.
Yes, keep the focus on yourself and your girls. Move on. Build yourself a life you want. It doesn't mean things won't work out but you need to move forward and show her you are willing to do that.
And yes, if she doesn't decide to work on it that is hers to deal with. I found they don't always think rationally. My W did all kinds of things that backfired on her.
I'm not saying I've been the perfect H, but I certainly haven't done anything to deserve this. She had mentioned to the friend that she wanted this to be for a year, but when I asked her a few months back if she wanted me to extend it for a year she said no.
Whether you deserve it or not is not the issue. The fact is that you have it deserving or not. Don't ponder this, just accept it's the situation you are in and make decisions accordingly.
She cried to friends and family once she found out where I was going. She wanted me to deploy, just not to a combat zone. She even went through rough emotional times about me being here since I've been here.
It's a roller coaster and it's hers. Stay off of it. She will be all over the place.
This woman is all over the map emotionally. Unfortunately, it's got me all over the map in a place i need my total focus. I don't want to over analyze everything she says or does, but it's difficult to not do that right now.
Again her being all over the map is her roller coaster and not yours unless you jump on with her. Take everything she says and does as an event, don't follow her lead. There are many things my W said she was going to do and never did. There are things she did that she never mentioned she would do. I know it's difficult, but just remember it's her demons she is dealing with. You have your own. Let her take care of her business and you take care of yours.
And stay out of her head. You can't read her mind so you won't know what she's thinking. Even if she told you, you could never know if it's the truth. She'll feel one way this second then the opposite in the next.
I know her plan hasn't materialized like she imagined. I'm sure from her actions and words to others and myself that she's confused as well. I won't really know how far she's gone until I get home. This is going to be 3 1/2 very long weeks.
My W thought I'd be out of the house in two months after she said she wanted a D. She thought she would get the house and the kids and I'd be out. It's been 14 months now and none of these issues have been resolved, so I can say it didn't go according to her plan.
Confused doesn't even scratch the surface.
I'll need your guys help more than ever in the coming days. Just please keep watch on me, and help me not to do something stupid.
They only way you're going to do something stupid is if you do something without coming here first and getting feedback. It's the only time I did something stupid. Keep your mouth shut, breath, take time before you act. We all are in the habit of reacting to them and their behavior, but I challenge you to act rather than react.
peace2u, thank you for stopping by and giving your input. Please stop back ,because your perspective will help greatly.
Steady I'm 12 hours ahead of the states. i typed all this in the morning. Luckily I was able to go through the entire day without it bringing me down or making me do something stupid.
Unlike last time, i made the post and waited for someone to come along with advice. i also have people here that are willing to let me talk to them. i was able to call my best friend back home and talk to him as well.
Everything you guys are telling me is true and I know it. I'm trying to keep the right attitude and mental state. However, time sometimes gets the best of me. when we're not working we have allot of free time, and I do allot of thinking.
She emailed me this morning just to let me know that she was getting the carpets cleaned today for when I get home. She told me about something my D14 had done.
I got my copy of DR remedy today and will start to read it.
Talking this out helps, and I will offer my perspective as much as you need. It helped me alot on these boards earlier - getting a perspective from people similar to my H....so I know what you mean.
Try, try, try to take all the focus off her. Focus on the Right Here, and NOW. That's all you've got, that's all anyone has. All the mental mumbling/what-ifs going on in your brain will take you off course.
No matter what - you'll come out of this a stronger person - and we're here to help you thru it.
the mental what-ifs are whats causing the most difficulty right now. I realize I'm the one causing myself all this grief, but it can be very difficult. She's up and down, and for some reason I can't help but to let it get me up and down.
Sometimes she seems like the person I remember, and at other times she's someone else completely.
I'm trying very hard, and have made great progress the past few months. Unfortunately we do tend to step backwards at times.
tbart01 I still don't recognize my W as the person I once knew. She also went back and forth. Friendly one day very distant the next. It's all part of the play.
You can't sit there with free time. You'll just ruminate on the sitch and get stuck in mental masturbation. I know you read this stuff and it makes perfect mental sense, but that doesn't really mean anything until it gets integrated into your being. It's a process.
When you have down time you really need to keep busy. Physically busy is the best thing. I'm sure that you aren't really feeling like doing much of anything but you have to force yourself. Take a walk, take a shower, workout, play some cards, do something so you aren't sitting alone just running loops in your head. Take up meditation...anything. I made the mistake of not doing much of this and it cost me.
Also, when you post just be patient. Someone will come around to help. Sometimes it takes time.
Two steps forward one step back, one forward two back, it's normal. Don't get down about it just keep trying to move forward.
peace2u I've always liked your posts. It's nice to run into you again. I've just came back a few days ago after not being here since September.
Mental what-ifs aka projection
I've seen it defined as:
"A little man in a dark room producing negatives."
Keep away from past and future thinking. Keep it now.
I have been a workout freak since I've been here. That's the only vice i have. I lift weights and run every day. I've lost 30 pounds and 3 inches off my waist. I'm in the best shape I've been in years.
believe it or not, I think more about the sitch when I'm working than I do during my down time.
It's good that you are doing stuff for yourself. I used to think about the sitch no matter what I was doing...even had dreams...lol. Couldn't even get a respite while sleeping.
I posted a reply to you on the detachment thread.
I'd like you to post the exact thoughts that are running through your head. It's an exercise I used to do. They are very different on paper than when they're only swirling around in your head. I found out I basically had a few dozen of the same thoughts playing over and over in my head...and none of them were positive.
Write down as many as you can and post them here.
Just to recap:
Detaching isn't not caring. It isn't walking away from your marriage or your family.
Its getting you untwined from the dysfunctional mental and emotional attachment to your W.
I'll give you an example:
In the past I would snoop a bit to find out what was going in her life. Today, I have absolutely no desire to find out. It doesn't mean I don't care, it just means I'm not attached to it. I am my own person.
When she says stupid crap to me I just look at her and don't let it set me off into an argument. Sometimes I'll say, "Ok, so you feel that way." It doesn't have an impact on me because it's hers and not mine.
When she tries to push my buttons it doesn't affect me. I've removed the buttons because I've detached. It pisses her off because she's left holding the sh*t sandwich she was trying to feed me. One of my favorite quotes concerning this is:
"If someone gives you a gift and you refuse it, who does the gift belong to?"
When she used to go out with her friends I would ruminate on what she was doing, who she was talking to, etc... After detaching I wasn't concerned anymore. I realized I had no control over it nor did I want any control over it. I kept the focus off of her and kept it on me.
All this doesn't mean I don't care about her - I do. It just means I'm no longer letting her actions and words dictate how I'm going to feel. I'll decide that myself. I don't need her validation for me to feel like a valuable person. I am. It needs no validation except from me.
Does that make it clearer?
Don't know if you read this but I think I linked it earlier:
I thought what I wrote above was flying in the face of the advice of doing 180's, but in reality it's not.
180's are doing things for yourself which you typically don't do. If we do them for the purpose of changing our sitch's they could easily backfire and put the final nail in the coffin. If that happens, how do you think you'll feel when you realize you did it to illicit a response only to get opposite what you wanted?
It's the 'if I do this, then that will happen' mentality. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I see now I put way too much energy into thinking about it. My shite often backfired...lol. Go figure.
The only 180 you need to do is this - WORK ON IMPROVING YOURSELF.
If you keep on improving yourself you'll have a natural 180. You will be constantly changing and improving and you'll be damn moving target. As you improve yourself:
You get more confident
Your communication skills go up
You learn to shut up and listen - really listen
You learn to put yourself in the other persons position so that you can really understand where they're coming from
Your self worth and self esteem goes up
You start doing things you always wanted to do but didn't
You start taking care of yourself physically
You start a new hobby
You go outside your safety zone and start doing different things (I'm gonna go jump out of a farkin airplane)
You start to embrace your life (go watch Yes Man)
( Notice the things on that list have nothing to do with your spouse or your situation. I didn't do alot of these things - so learn from my mistakes. Keep your damn eyes off your spouse and your situation...and stick them on you)
Of course this list goes on and on....you pick the things you want to work on...but don't do it based on some 'effect'.
As you do these things, your happiness will go up. If they aint happening for you, well that's the map for what you need to work on. Constant 180's, made for you without intending them to 'change' your situation. You go for the ride, if they hop on then more power to you.
If they don't, well they just missed the best train they could have taken. Don't worry though, there are other stations ahead.
Remember this - 'Control is an Illusion'
And this - I could be wrong about all of it. Use it at your own risk or throw it into the shite pile with the rest of the cr@p.
This is from a post on one of my threads. I thought it might help at least one person here:
You're right nds. Detachment is the key. In hindsight I know what I did wrong.
1. Didn't GAL
2. Didn't detach enough. Fooled myself into thinking that I was.
3. Pushed too hard for her to work on her issues. Even confronted her a few times when they came out in all their glory.
4. Backslid too many times based on her inappropriate behavior that I called her on
5. Was way too clingy/desperate when the bomb dropped. This is one of the biggest ones that hurt my chances. Alot of damage was done in that first month and a half.
So for any newbies - DETACH like you will die if you don't. It's kind of a catch 22 though. I didn't know what detaching really was until recently - and it took my W saying she wanted a D to actually get me to the point where I actually understood what detachment really meant.
To me (now) detachment means:
1. To not care what the outcome will be. And I mean really not care - not just lip service because it's not heading south. When my sitch was heading north, it was easy to convince myself I was detached because the horizon looked good. It was a false sense of detachment, it was actually comfortability disguised as detachment - because it looked like it was going to work out the way I wanted it to.
When you invest yourself into the outcome you will try to force things in that direction. I'm not saying you don't want things to work out, I'm saying want what you want but don't attach yourself to a particular outcome. If you do then anything that looks like it's in line with your goal will bring you up, and anything that doesn't will bring you down. You have no idea where it's all going to land. I didn't, and still don't. I can tell you one thing for sure, a year or two ago I never imagined I would be where I'm at now.
The only way you'll know that you're really detached is that no matter which way the situation seems to be headed you will feel the same way - no rollercoaster ride. If you get there, then you're really detached.
If my sitch makes it to a D, fine. If it doesn't, fine. I'm in alignment with either outcome. It will land as it lands. It doesn't mean I wouldn't want to work it out if I could. I would. But that's not my reality right now. It doesn't mean I don't care it just means I'm not attached to any particular outcome.
2. To detach from your own feelings about the situation. Don't let your feelings dictate how you are going to feel/act or what you're going to say. As a LBS our feelings are often attached to our spouse in such an unhealthy way that we are focused more on interpreting their actions, guessing their thoughts and feelings, trying to control their thoughts/feelings/actions by what we do/say.
I'm sure you can relate to this paragraph. You'll probably be walking on eggshells worried you might do or say something that will push everything right over the edge. Everything she does has an impact on you and you try to analyze it over and over.
I see it so much in my behavior over the last 9 months since the bomb dropped. I used WAY TOO MUCH energy thinking about things that I couldn't control, thinking about the future by doing negative projection, trying to take the temperature of the sitch, trying to guess what my W was thinking/feeling, interpreting her behaviors and trying to establish a connection between her actions and her thoughts/feelings. I have to say, I never guessed right. So put an end to it RIGHT NOW.
Again, I'm sure you know this paragraph well.
3. To detach from your spouse. And I mean really detach. When you: Aren't thinking about what she may be thinking, aren't concerned about what she is doing, aren't snooping to find out information, aren't trying to gauge which direction she is heading in relation to your sitch, aren't adjusting your actions to have an 'effect' on your W, aren't doing things to elicit a response, aren't focused on her issues, aren't focused on her behavior, aren't gauging your self-worth based on what you perceive to be her feelings about you - then you'll know you have detached from her.
When you get a life for yourself. Do the things you like to do without any thought of how it will in some way 'improve' your chances of reconciliation. When you stand up and keep your head high no matter what is going on around you. When you not only believe, but you actually KNOW that you will be fine no matter what the outcome. Then you will have detached.
Anything else is a false sense of detachment. It will be many things disguised as detachment. So be wary of when you think you are detached. If things head south, then you'll really know if you are or not.
As you see, none of this is about my W. It's about how I act and react to the situation in my life. It's about where I am and how secure I am about being me. It's about taking the control back that I gave away to someone else. Why would I want to give control of my emotions/thoughts/actions over to another person? Do you want that for yourself?
I never once said I didn't love or care about my W. It's not about that.
Control is an illusion.
man oh man, tbart, I hope you realize you've hit the paydirt motherload of exceptional advice.
I hope you can read what Steady has said and it rings true with you and you follow his words.
I WILL tell you this. If my H could have detached years ago, for REAL (giving me space, but staying attached like a leech is NOT the same)... there would have been hope for us. He has not, and it has driven me away, completely. Even though you are thousands of miles away - she will be able to tell if the focus is off her...and she will be able to breathe.
This advice is vital - and it will change your life in ALL perspectives, not just with your wife.
Take care.
peace2u so many things make sense in hindsight. It really is a shame though. The execution of the 'right' thing didn't really integrate into me until after she said she wanted a D. Even then it took a little while. So much damage is done until that point is reached.
I'm sorry to hear about the situation you are in. I'm sure it's hard for the WAS also. I understand that.
My W and I are rotating in and out of the house since the end of January and we have minimal contact. Our information exchange about the kids is done mostly through texting and emails. Face to face happens rarely as do phone calls. I'll be honest and say it's given me breathing room too.
By the time we were to start rotating in and out of the house I was actually the one pushing to get it rolling. I had more than I could take by that point.
I'm pulling for tbart. In a way this place depresses me, but I have been given so much from this place that I want to see if I can pass on what was given to me in the hopes someone will grab it earlier than I did.
Peace2u are you still with your H or did you guys separate?
I'm still in the house. I wouldn't call it WITH my H...but we live in the same house. But as I've said, my H has been incapable of detachment - he's still swimming in the pool of constant mental misery...no change at ALL for years. Too complicated and I might start another thread...not ready yet, tho.
This place depresses me too - and I haven't been able to be here until lately.
I'm pulling for tbart too. I think there should be a whole entire social revolution on what we've been talking about today. The world would be a better place, for sure.
I have avoided contacting her for quite awhile now. i only call when i have a missed call from her. I only email when she emails back. i initiate no contact with her, and that's very out of norm for me.
When I arrive home we won't be living under the same roof, so that will make it a little easier. She has her space now that I haven't given her in the past.
ok tbart apparently something has transpired and it's easy to read by what you wrote and the tone.
It may be out of the norm for you but that's what you need to do. Let her have her space and breathing room....THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT AT THIS STAGE.
Most of us have made the mistake of relentless pursuit - including basically following them around the house like a puppy, buying gifts, flowers, cards, being overly nice and doting over them...they want none of this and it actually has the reverse effect of pushing them further away.
I'm sure peace2u can attest to this.
Maybe peace2u can give you more specific instructions on what is being nice and pursuing.
I would do as you are doing. Let her initiate everything. Anything you initiate right now will be seen by her as pursuing and will push her away.
You have a few weeks to get yourself straight. That will be easier to do while you still have no physical contact right now.
Now please be detailed in your next post. Include what has transpired and your thoughts and feelings. Without this we can give you any feedback.
Also, please define what quite a while is..when was the last time you initiated?
tbart, I can't stress this enough:
THIS STAGE IS CRITICAL. I screwed up at this stage and it had a major negative impact on my sitch. I would love to see you not make the same mistakes I made.
Again, this first stage is critical, more critical than you can imagine.
One correction in your last post:
Now she has the space that SHE hasn't given herself in the past.
You can't give or take her space away. That's her responsibility.
Nothing new has transpired. I was letting her make all the contact for about a month now. I back pedaled on her birthday when I called and questioned her about the post card. Other than that day, and since then, I have left all the contact up to her.
Again it's been only a month, but that's a huge step for me. I just keeping thinking about the fact that she had ths divorce plan in place before I left. That's what has gotten my tone different.
For the first time since this began, I contacted attornies yesterday. I emailed 7 attornies and told them the sitch and what my rights were. Up until yesterday I didn't want to contact an attorny until I got home.
Although my preference would be to avoid a D, I still need to make sure I'm covered. I did find out that her plan of my 6 months over here counting as part of our separation doesn't count. Under the sailors and soldiers act my deployment time doesn't count towards separation.
I'm trying so hard to detach, and have gotten much better at it. However I'm still consumed by the sitch. I keep it all to myself and talk to others. i do not email or call her about anything.
For the first time in 17 1/2 years I'm ok with not talking to my W everyday. It took me some time, but not contacting her has become very easy. i still like it when she calls or emails, but I won't be the one to initiate it.
Are you at the point of reconciliation? When you are both on the path of reconciliation things are different.
It was and is about letting go and moving FORWARD. Tell me, what are you holding onto? A woman who is moving away from you. You'll just get dragged and she'll see you as an anchor.
It only seems counterproductive because it is counterproductive to what you think it should be. But what you think is what got you into the situation you are in.
Did you read Michelle's book? She addresses how this process seems counterproductive.
Did begging, pleading, pulling out wedding albums, writing letters, cards or poems, buying flowers, doing more housework, etc... work?
Steady in answering your question on the other post. She asked me to call only twice a week when I first got over here, and I didn't. She asked me not to email her all the time, and I didn't. SHe asked for space before I even knew there was something wrong, and I didn't give it. So yes she did tell me early on.
i really don't want to have a relationship with the woman she is right now. I guess I'm hanging on to who she was and what we had. I'm trying not to let what she says or does get me spinning. Sometimes they do, but I keep it to myself or talk it out instead of talking to her.
I have been treating her more like a friend when we talk on the phone.
Anything else you need me to add that would help you help me let me know.
Don't know how the last post got there. Must have accidentaly pasted it.
Steady in answering your question on the other post. She asked me to call only twice a week when I first got over here, and I didn't. She asked me not to email her all the time, and I didn't. SHe asked for space before I even knew there was something wrong, and I didn't give it. So yes she did tell me early on.
i really don't want to have a relationship with the woman she is right now. I guess I'm hanging on to who she was and what we had. I'm trying not to let what she says or does get me spinning. Sometimes they do, but I keep it to myself or talk it out instead of talking to her.
I have been treating her more like a friend when we talk on the phone.
Anything else you need me to add that would help you help me let me know.
You're absolutely correct about walking on eggshells. There is so much advice to absorb, and I'm afraid of doing something wrong. I know I have, and probably will do it again.
It's very difficult to not think about my W and what she's thinking. I know I can't control her thoughts, but i also can't stop thinking about them. It makes it more difficult that I haven't even seen her since the bomb was dropped.
I'm trying to prepare for how things will be when I get home. That has also got my mind spinning. i really don't know who or what to expect when it comes to her. I hate that there will be nothing physical between us. this isn't what you expect after being away for 6 months.
If she's at the airport do I give her a hug, and what do I say? Once I get home she's dropping me off and it's just me and the kids. How long before we talk? What will I say? What shouldn't I say? Things like this are bouncing through my head.
try not to walk on eggshells. my H is still doing that dance and it makes things so uneasy for me and the kids. it builds a tension that doesn't need to be there.
Difference between being nice and persuing? hmmmmm... the thought process behind it. I know when my H is doing something just to get a certain response from the action.
Just by being genuine in all actions/thoughts/words....she will know the difference. Do NOTHING with the intention of getting a certain response from her. Just be real. I'll try to think of more specific examples.
Tbart...my latest thread was called Super Close - 3...I'm SURE I posted specific examples of his pursuits. Its been a while back tho. I'll post more when I have more time.
My thoughts were with you so I had to pop in real fast today...that's something I missed from not being here so long...You have people pulling for you.
If she's at the airport do I give her a hug, and what do I say? Once I get home she's dropping me off and it's just me and the kids. How long before we talk? What will I say? What shouldn't I say? Things like this are bouncing through my head.
The paragraph above is a prime example of projection. ALL is out of your control - so don't waste the energy of allowing those thoughts to have time in your brain.
When i do get home peace2u, would it be wrong to initiate a hug. In her state of mind, how would this come across. Remember I haven't seen her in 6 months.
It's difficult to not think about these things, because like I mentioned before I've been away for this entire process. i have yet to be face to face with the woman that's doing this. I'm in a very difficult situation as you can see.
You know so many things run through my mind these days. I really wish I could stop that happening but I can't. My w has said so many different things that I don't know which ones to believe. I know that they say to believe none of what a WAW says, and 50% of what they do.
peace2u, maybe you can help me with some of this. She tells people that I made the decision to come over here. i wish I had the email she sent telling me the reasons I should go. She was crying to friends and family about me going to Afghanistan. She had breakdowns while I was over here.
However, I recently found out her plan was to have me come over here and make some money and give her the time to prepare leaving me. She told me things she thought I needed to work on about myself. I started making those changes and she drew further away.
For a time things got better between here and I. Again the more things I did to make positive change within myself, and the better we did when speaking, the further she backed away. When she dropped the bomb, things were going really well with us.
She has said some really hurtful things to me since I've been here. One of which is about the last week we spent together before I came here. We went to lunch, dinner, movies, talked and talked, she initiated intimacy every night. I had asked her about that week when all this came about, and she told me it was all forced. Can you really force something like that? She also tells others that all we did was fight that week. Absolutely a false statement. It was one of the best weeks we've spent together in a long while.
I'm not a stupid guy, and at no time did I ever think our M was in jeopardy. I look back now and see how distant she had been for the past year. We had issues about ourselves as individuals, that i sought counseling for. However, she chose to work on her issues herself.
She has made mention of the possibility of us fixing this, she tells me she still loves me, she brings up things that indicate a future. Then she'll go cold and distant.
She had mentioned to me that she was afraid of us living under the same roof when I get home because she thought I would talk her into things being the way they were. I now know that she knows the law about being separated for 1 year prior to being able to D. I feel that's why she doesn't want us to live under the same roof.
I really don't know what to believe anymore. I feel good when we have a conversation that includes no negativity on her part. To me that alone is positive.
Once she started counseling she said she still loved me, wanted me to get counseling when I got home, and then we would co-counsel when the time was right, and we would see what happens. She said she didn't know how things were going to be between her and I when I got home. It's things like this that have made me go NC unless she initiated. Too many ups and downs.
I'm still trying to think of how things will be when I get home, and until I get there I won't know.
Should I ever at any time bring up the fact that I know she was preparing to leave me before and during this deployment. I don't mean now, but at any time after I get home?
One thing that made me feel good was the fact that everybody that I've talked to has noticed I haven't said anything bad about her. Even though she's doing this to me I still refuse to bad mouth her to others. In all honesty, where would that get me? It doesn't mean I don't think these things, actually i write them down on paper.
I have remained calm and cool throughout this entire process. I have not and will not argue with her no matter how much she wants to. She at one point commented that I'm not arguing with her because i want to be the better person. Yes, to an extent that's true, but I have no desire to argue about this.
On another positive note. I took some pictures of myself today and posted them on Facebook. I had told friends and family about the weight I've lost and they wanted to see pictures. i didn't realize how good i was looking until I took those pictures and actually saw myself. I'm proud of me for the progress I'm making physically, and about me as whole person.
Like what someone mentioned earlier. I will be a better person for me and my D's, and she just may end up missing the train. I don't want my M to end, but if it does, I know I'm a better person and have done everything I needed to do.
peace2u I've been reading through your post, and I really wish my W was on this forum. You got some really harsh responses that made you see things from a different perspective.
You at least had the foresight to come to a forum like this. I'm not sure my W feels she wants to save M at this point. I don't ask or snoop so I don't know what shes doing.
She brings up smothering and isolation all the time lately. At no point in our M did she communicate any of this to me. I have never been an absent H, our M has always been us and the kids. That's whats now coming out as part of the problem. There was too much us together and not enough us separately.
I would have gladly tried to change these things in our M if she would have communicated it to me. She waits until this point in our M to tell me everything shes led me to believe was ok, was in fact not.
Why is it the WAW waits until it's too late to communicate these things? I'm working so hard to improve myself and I'm enjoying it. However, I wish she would have talked to me and made me aware of my flaws. It would be up to me at that point whether or not I wanted to fix those flaws. Of course I would have, I never wanted her to be unhappy.
I have relied on my W allot throughout the years. She allowed me to do that, and I allowed her to do the same. Again, I know i haven't been perfect, but neither has she. I have always told her my complaints, but she has always had a knack for being cold and distant. She has the ability to bottle up her feelings, where I let them out.
Peace, I get a little discouraged when I read your thread. I'm willing to do what I need to do to become a better person and to improve what I KNOW needs improvement. My W waited until it was too late in her mind to tell me. Now that she's finally communicated it to me, and I'm making a whole hearted effort, she won't give me the time.
You and the other WAW's that gave you advice sought help. You hadn't totally given up or else you wouldn't have been here. To my knowledge my W doesn't care to save the M. I could be completely wrong, but that's the impression I have.
My W has a H who is willing to listen to what she's saying. My W has a H who is willing to do what it takes. I've made great discoveries and strides in improving me since I've been over here dealing with my sitch. I will without a doubt go home feeling better about myself, and will continue to improve me.
However, I won't go home feeling any better about my sitch. My W and I will be separated from the moment I get home. I will be different, and she may or not notice or care. Unfortunately, only time will tell exactly what she's going to do. I know what I'm going to do.
I'm going to go home and spend as much time with two girls that love me. I'm going to continue to stay physically and mentally fit. I don't know what, but I'm going to find something I like to occupy time.
If she doesn't like what she sees, than thats on her. I just need to do my best to focus on me. Being away right now has me to focused on her, because of the unknowns of when I return
If she doesn't like what she sees, than thats on her. I just need to do my best to focus on me. Being away right now has me to focused on her, because of the unknowns of when I return
I completely get that. It HAS to be hard on you since you're so far away.
I wish your wife were on here too. My H needed to be here, as well.
BUT-nothing you or I can do about that. Yes I got harsh responses...and thank God. It brought me out of being-the-victim mode and forced me to work on ME.
I don't know your W or her sitch...but my sitch was at least similar in the way that I never voiced my opinion. Up until a year ago, I was pretty unaware I even HAD a voice....I played the doormat pretty well.
I'm pulling for you. If you can work on muting the what-if voices in your head - you will be SO much ahead of the game when you return home....BTW...when DO you get to go home?
I'll check in on you later...gotta go get my kid.
Peace
OH!!! and holy moly - don't get discouraged reading my post. my H has done nothing to help our sitch.
And you ARE!!! There's hope...always is.
Yeah I got that from reading your post that he doesn't get it. I kept thinking what an idiot. My wife was pretty much in the same sitch as you. However, i never meant to treat her or make her feel that way. She just spent years not communicating it to me.
I have no problem working on myself or our sitch. my whole thing is just tell me, and now that you have just give me the time. i to wish she could find this sight and see other perspectives. I'm working really hard to make improvements.
I have 3 more long weeks left to go. I'm starting to get rally nervous because I don't know what I'm going to encounter when get home. I sure am looking forward to seeing my daughters, and spending time with them like I always have.
You're absolutely correct about walking on eggshells. There is so much advice to absorb, and I'm afraid of doing something wrong. I know I have, and probably will do it again.
There is no such thing as doing something wrong..imo. I thought the same thing but it doesn't take a single episode (typically) to make or break a sitch either way. Now there are some things that would but they are not the norm - smacking her around, yelling and screaming at her, etc..
The other back-peddling are things to learn from so you don't keep repeating them.
As peace2u has said; try not to walk on eggshells thinking you're going to do or say something to push it over the edge. Be genuine, stay away from any R, M or future talks. The ideal mindset to have is one where you accept what is, know that you'll be fine no matter which way things go, be totally accepting of whatever the outcome might be, don't be a doormat or mousy...be a mature, sensible, caring friend to her.
It's very difficult to not think about my W and what she's thinking. I know I can't control her thoughts, but i also can't stop thinking about them. It makes it more difficult that I haven't even seen her since the bomb was dropped.
Yes, this is VERY difficult to stop. Rationally you know you can't read her mind, you can't control her thoughts/emotions/actions etc...BUT, and it's a big but, it doesn't make a bit of difference until that knowing sinks into your being.The constant mental repeating of the fact you have no control will help you override the emotional attachment you have.
I'm trying to prepare for how things will be when I get home. That has also got my mind spinning. i really don't know who or what to expect when it comes to her. I hate that there will be nothing physical between us. this isn't what you expect after being away for 6 months.
It's hard to prepare for something you have no idea about. You don't know what is going to transpire. Ideal mindset - have no expectations either positive or negative. Believe me,she's going to be very nervous seeing you. Make a non-intimidating environment as you can. Best mindset - Come off the plane as if nothing about this sitch is affecting you. As if you've completely accepted it and are ok with it.
If she's at the airport do I give her a hug, and what do I say? Once I get home she's dropping me off and it's just me and the kids. How long before we talk? What will I say? What shouldn't I say? Things like this are bouncing through my head.
Would you typically give her a hug? If she were a friend picking you up would you give a hug (or family member)? (that one might not be a good example) If you give her a hug, make it short - and short means ALOT shorter than you think is short. You let go before she does. A brief hug it best. They will know if you are holding on out of some form of needing. Don't be needy. Don't squeezer her tightly. No attempt to give her a kiss. If she makes the move to hug you or kiss you go with it and make it brief. If she hugs you and holds on, hug briefly then let your arms go and make the motion to pull away- she will break the hug when she feels that (hopefully). Otherwise she will feel awkward holding onto you like a limp fish
Say hi. Then immediately focus on the kids. Feel the joy in your body towards them and let that come out completely. Let your kids feel ALL of your love - including the love you want to express to your W. Ask them what they've been up to. Tell them you missed them, you love them and you're so glad to be with them. Hug them with all the love you have.
Don't tell your W that you missed her. Absolutely not. She will feel guilty or have some other negative reaction. You might think she wants reassurance that you love her, care for her, missed her, but this is the last thing she wants in the mindset she is in. Believe me, I made all these mistakes.
What do you say to her when she drops you and the kids off? Thank her for picking you up at the airport. Tell her you appreciate it. Exchange and information you might have to discuss about the kids. Don't linger in or around the car.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SAY ANYTHING THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THE SITUATION OR YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
This includes having a sad face, feeling pity for yourself, longing for her to hug you or say something nice. She may do any one of those but just put it in your head they are actions either out of guilt or some idea of obligation. Read nothing into what she says or does.
If she brings up anything about the situation, relationship, apologizing for the way things are, etc... Just look at her and tell her you'd rather not discuss any of that right now because you've had a very long and tiring 6 months overseas and you are drained from that. Say you are tired and in no mindset to have any deep discussions. This is drawing a strong boundary for yourself and shows you are not so desperate to fix or change anything right now. You are allowed to say no. It will also have the effect of her seeing you as a strong man who can and will draw boundaries about what is acceptable for YOU.
Once you guys are done exchanging information say goodbye and walk into the house. If you feel like crying, wait till you're inside when you have time away from the kids, then let it out.
Be the first one to break from the conversation. When you walk away don't look back. Go into the house and do not look out the window or the door etc.. DO NOT LINGER.
Let peace2u read what I wrote before you take it in. Her perspective and input will be very valuable. She'll tell you what she would need in this situation.
.......She brings up smothering and isolation all the time lately. At no point in our M did she communicate any of this to me. I have never been an absent H, our M has always been us and the kids. That's whats now coming out as part of the problem. There was too much us together and not enough us separately.
Take this very seriously. It doesn't matter if you think her thinking or emotions are valid. To her, they are very valid and it's what she's thinking and feeling. If she ever brings up any issues about what she's thinking and feeling, just respond with, I understand you are thinking/feeling that way. I understand why you think/feel that way. If you can honestly see how your action helped create the situation that she is feeling negatively about, express that in a way that validates her feeling. ie: I understand when I did _____ you felt _____. DO NOT DEFEND, ATTACK, EXPLAIN etc... Just validate and leave it at that. Under no circumstances are you to engage or get baited into an argument.
I would have gladly tried to change these things in our M if she would have communicated it to me. She waits until this point in our M to tell me everything shes led me to believe was ok, was in fact not.
All of this doesn't matter. Don't say this to her. Just accept things are as they are. She will bring up many, many things to justify why she is doing what she is doing. I'm sure she is harboring a tremendous amount of guilt for what she is doing. She will try to lessen that guilt be trying to get you to do things that will reinforce her position. If you argue or try to show her that she is rewriting the past it will only solidify her rationalization because she will then process it as you not getting her, or minimizing her feelings, etc..
Why is it the WAW waits until it's too late to communicate these things? I'm working so hard to improve myself and I'm enjoying it. However, I wish she would have talked to me and made me aware of my flaws. It would be up to me at that point whether or not I wanted to fix those flaws. Of course I would have, I never wanted her to be unhappy.
Again all of this doesn't matter. She did what she did because she couldn't do it any other way. Think of this - why did you do what you did? Why didn't you change all of the things you are working on now much earlier? It took a bomb for you to see it and have the motivation to start changing it. No one can tell you what it will take for your W to see it.
It's just you wanting to point out what she did wrong. It's her issue she didn't tell you these things sooner, not yours. This issue of hers is part of the things she needs to work out for herself. Just like you had a part to play in the destruction in the M, she played a part also. Don't expect her to take responsibility for her part in it. My W still hasn't. No real progress can be made until both parties accept their part and take responsibility in changing themselves. I'm sure peace2u can attest to that - I imagine her H isn't taking responsibility for his part. I know my W certainly hasn't. She blames me for the whole thing.
I have relied on my W allot throughout the years. She allowed me to do that, and I allowed her to do the same. Again, I know i haven't been perfect, but neither has she. I have always told her my complaints, but she has always had a knack for being cold and distant. She has the ability to bottle up her feelings, where I let them out.
Ok, so you've identified issues you both had. Let hers go. Remember them because they are her part of creating the mess. The ones you see about yourself - work on them. Change them. Understand you will improve and either your W will jump on the train and reap the benefits of what you have to offer, or, you will offer the better you to someone else down the road. Make the changes because you want to be a better person than you were/are right now. It has to be for this reason and not for getting the M back. We all come here to save our marriages, over time we come to realize it's about saving ourselves and if the M is saved then it's a bonus.
As far as the separation when you get home. This may sound retarded or even backa$$wards:
But I wish my W and I had separated a long time ago (after the bomb dropped, not a long time ago in the relationship).
The separation creates space you both need
It creates an environment where she can feel the impact of her decision. ie: She won't just be able to feel anger which she would constantly have by seeing you in her space. When they do that it takes the focus off them and their feelings and doesn't give them any opportunity to reflect on their part in the whole mess.
You won't be physically around to remind her of her 'anger' and bitter feelings toward you
She won't feel you walking on eggshells all the time which will create tension and negative feelings inside her - which in turn she will use as further reasoning why she can't be with you. She will think being around you feels negative and she needs to get rid of the source of that negativity.(you - it's really not you, but she'll see it that way)
It will give you breathing space to be able to look at the whole sitch from a more distant perspective.
It will create a vacuum. An empty space between you. She will feel it. Perhaps it's a vacuum that will draw her closer. Perhaps it won't.
There are many other positives that will come from it.
Trust me, the space between my W and I has done wonders for me. I'm hoping it will have the same positive impact on you. I know you can't possibly imagine what I'm saying as true or being somehow beneficial to you - I would never have been able to see it that way early in my sitch.
It is at is. Make the best of what you have - you didn't make the decision to physically separate, she did. Therefore you have absolutely no control over it. Work your a$$ off to accept it and deal with it accordingly and in a way that will have a positive impact on you and your kids.
I have 3 more long weeks left to go. I'm starting to get rally nervous because I don't know what I'm going to encounter when get home. I sure am looking forward to seeing my daughters, and spending time with them like I always have.
Those 3 weeks can be miserable or fun. The choice is yours. You don't know what you're going to encounter when you get home - but I'll bet good money your imagining it has nothing positive and contains all the worst case scenarios your mind can drum up.
What if you knew when you saw her at the airport you would find out she changed her mind and completely changed course? How would you feel then?
You're feelings follow your thoughts. If you think this is all catastrophic, you'll feel completely defeated.
All things are really neutral. It's how we perceive their effect on us which make them 'good' or 'bad'. If you need me to elaborate on this last sentence I will be more than happy to.
I'm tired and I need to get some sleep.
One other thing - what if all this has to transpire in order to get both you and your W into a position where you will both be ready to create a R beyond both of your wildest dreams? Maybe this is the only way that would create that. As far fetched as that might seem...how can you really know if this is true or not?
If you could really accept it as the only way, then you'll be WAY ahead of the game.
steady you once again gave fabulous advice. I think back before i even knew of her intentions, and I realize the mistakes i made.
When I first got to Afghanistan she asked me to call once a week and web cam once a week. I didn't understand her request, so I called outside of the window and would email. She had set a boundary that I crossed. She wanted me to give her space then and I didn't which pushed her away.
I kept going down this road for about the first month and a half I was here. I f she wasn't home I would panic and call her on her cell phone to see where she was which pushed her away.
Just before Christmas she expressed to me that she had thought about leaving me and didn't know what she was going to do. She then gave me the list of complaints and things I needed to work on. i did the normal trying to defend myself, explain myself, begging, pleading.
I immediately went to work trying to make these changes. i visited the Chaplain once a week, read self help books, and browsed the internet for self help. As I made discoveries i would email her with what i was finding out. She told me to stop telling her these things, but I still did it and still called when I wasn't supposed to. Further pushing her away.
I then started to get it and tried to wait for her to contact me. if she didn't after a certain of days i would call her. Eventually I would stop doing this and she started to call me. We would have great conversations and bad conversations. she would talk R and I would go along. If I said anything that was different than what she said, whether I was calm or not, she would accuse us of arguing. However, I was never arguing, but in her eyes I was. Further pushing her away.
After awhile i receiving good emails and would have good talks, some that turned to R, but they were good. She would even comment that they were very good conversations and she enjoyed them. then all of a sudden she tells me she thinks she wants a D.
I was bewildered and asked why. i again tried to reason with the changes I was making, and the positives between us. She was angry that I was making these changes after so many years of her wanting me to make them. According to her she had been trying for years, and now I was finally ready to climb aboard but she was done.
Things were rocky for awhile, but I tried my best to not pester her. Eventually it got to where she was no longer angry, but actually friendly. i misread this as a step in the positive direction. I started to send her emails telling her how much i appreciated her, that I still wear my wedding ring proudly (no longer wear it), and I would say things like when we fix things, or I hope to get a second chance.
After reading DR and listening to all your advice, I now see that i to made the common mistakes. They even started before I knew there was something wrong. Here we are 4 months later and I'm finally starting to get it. I have been doing better the past month and i hope to continue to do so.
I have been letting her initiate contact. it's really difficult to do sometimes, but I'm doing it. I still think about her and I all the time, but my focus has been my kids. i make sure to call D14 every few days, and talk to D4 when she's awake.
i just hope I didn't make too many mistakes early on because I was uneducated. I accept my role in this, and just hope to get the opportunity one day to practice what i have learned and continue to learn. This has been very humbling and educational at the same time.
I don't want to dwell on the past, but she is. i want to move from this point forward in a positive direction. i hope that involves my W, I really do, but if not I will be armed with a better understanding of what to do in the future.
Don't tell her about the changes you've made, show her by your actions.
She's going to hold onto the past. How else do you think she can justify what she is doing? My W is doing the same thing. But as my therapist once told me - when time passes and the 'past' (which she's rewritten so much of it) becomes a fading memory for her, she will look back and wonder what was so bad that she had to break up her family. Whether this will happen or not I don't know. What I do know is it's becoming less and less important to me for her to do that.
Don't try to correct her 'recollection' of the past and what happened. Of course you have a list of your own about changes she must make. Right now she's only focused on you and looking for any 'mistakes' you make to reinforce her decision. My W didn't really acknowledge the positive changes I made. She still looks at me and in her mind only 'sees' how I used to be. Again, she needs to do this in order to do what she is doing. She can't 'see' or seriously acknowledge me in the present.
Don't expect your W to put much stock in your positive changes. Of course she will minimize it saying it's too late, etc... That's also her reinforcing her position. What would happen if she was to seriously acknowledge your positive changes? She would have to sit there and ask herself why she is leaving a man who is treating her the way she wants to be treated.
And you are totally right - she drew a boundary she needed and you didn't respect that. In the future don't do this. But you already know that.
If you see anything from her that seems like an indication things are heading in a 'positive' direction just look at it as an event in your life. Don't put any stock in it and keep acting as you are. She will be all over the map sending all kinds of mixed signals. This is just a reflection of what's going on inside her. If you react to the positive and negative signals you will have jumped on her roller coaster for a ride up and down. As Mike from Tennessee used to say - stay off the coaster and wave to her as she goes up and down. Smile and wave boys, smile and wave.
Just be upbeat and positive whenever you're around her. Express any emotions - anger, frustration, jealousy, etc.. here on the boards.
All the things you've listed above happened to me also. It's a script they run. I can't tell you how many times I've heard some crazy shite coming from her mouth. We talked, and she would say we are arguing, and it wasn't normal relationship to have 'all' that arguing; my friends don't treat me like this; my friends all have 'wonderful' marriages (forgetting not long ago she listed how her friends were not too happy with their husbands)...etc.
Work on your mindset. It isn't the end of the world no matter which way your sitch goes. Don't believe anything that exits her mouth. She will say all kinds of things.
Keep the focus on you and your kids. Keep your focus off her and what she is/isn't, should/shouldn't be doing or saying.
If you read through my sitch you will see all of the things you listed above in there. I used to say it's like my W has been possessed and she is but a shadow of the woman I married.
Hang in there. Work you a$$ off on your mindset. You need to get it straight.
Be genuine, stay away from any R, M or future talks. The ideal mindset to have is one where you accept what is, know that you'll be fine no matter which way things go, be totally accepting of whatever the outcome might be, don't be a doormat or mousy...be a mature, sensible, caring friend to her.
BINGO. Bite your tongue if you need to. NO R talk. I could absolutely repeat my H's R talk verbatim. It pushed me away just a little further every single time it was brought up. And if you read my thread - you know just how bleepin often that was.
Best mindset - Come off the plane as if nothing about this sitch is affecting you. As if you've completely accepted it and are ok with it.
Don't be needy. Don't squeezer her tightly. No attempt to give her a kiss. If she makes the move to hug you or kiss you go with it and make it brief.
ABSOLUTELY..This is a time to show her the man you are...anything less than that will not be good. I know it has GOT to be eating you up - but try try try to come to peace with EITHER outcome before you get home.
Then immediately focus on the kids. Feel the joy in your body towards them and let that come out completely. Let your kids feel ALL of your love - including the love you want to express to your W. Ask them what they've been up to. Tell them you missed them, you love them and you're so glad to be with them. Hug them with all the love you have.
YES!! Big positive being a good daddy. HUGE positive.
DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES SAY ANYTHING THAT EVEN COMES CLOSE TO THE SITUATION OR YOUR RELATIONSHIP.
This includes having a sad face, feeling pity for yourself, longing for her to hug you or say something nice.
This is HUMONGOUS!!! No sad face. No pity. She's going to probably seem confusing to you - she's going thru her crap, too....so read NOTHING into it. Show no pity...hold it in til you're alone and cry your eyes out, if you need to...or get online and vent to us. But don't let her see it.
I take 50% of the blame for the years prior to the pursuing mode. Since I did not voice my concerns/opinions - nothing changed. I expected H to know my needs and fulfill them. That was half my fault. But since the pursuing phase began - I have completely lost all respect for my H and once someone loses respect....not much is remaining.
So remember that, if any thought of persuing enters your brain. Come to US or your friends to vent and cry. Do not persue her. I have come to really hate that p word.
peace, if your H had pulled his head out of his a$$ and made the changes and realizations some of us had would it have changed anything early on? It's kind of irrelevant, but as I read your sitch I kept wanting to hit you H in the head.
I agree about needing to into the mindset of either outcome. However, as you can imagine it's even harder in my situation because i haven't even seen her yet. that makes it all even more confusing. Our sitch has been all telephone.
You keep hearing not to talk about the R. What if the W brings up the R, do you talk about it then? I never bring up the sitch or r talk. She called last week and asked when I wanted to talk about finances and I told her when I get home. we've only talked for about 1 minute since then.
I found out today that I'll be going home 9 April, and I'm nervous as he!!. I will continue to update and ask for advice. You all have been very helpful, i just pray I can do what i need to do.
tb were you really that bad a person to begin with?
were you a bad provider?
a bad father?
a horrible husband?
a bad soldier?
a discredit to your uniform and your country?
Was your wife perfect in every way?
Did she always satisfy your every request & desire?
peace, if your H had pulled his head out of his a$$ and made the changes and realizations some of us had would it have changed anything early on? It's kind of irrelevant, but as I read your sitch I kept wanting to hit you H in the head.
pretty funny
I know I'd wouldn't have lost my respect for him if he would have woken up.
BUT - then I wouldn't have done the enormous amount of growing myself, if he had.
Nobody's perfect. Everyone has their garbage/issues. But what I hope comes out of this for you, is your realization of the opportunity for personal growth. And it'd be icing on the cake if your M was saved along the way.
If she brings up the R talk - then take that moment as it comes. And keep the tips in your brain that we've given you and remember what you've read in Michelle's book. We all backslide. After years of this - I still backslide and fall on my butt...then I kick myself and move on.
And I hope you don't ever think that I think you're the bad guy in all this.
I don't even know your issues, your wife's issues - or what your M was like.
No judgement from me.
But you're here, on this board...and if you can learn from all of our downfalls....all the better.
well tburt, if its anything like it has been for me... the homecoming will be VERY awkward and difficult.... i felt like things were going ok and improving but he was telling people, including OW, that its so awkward and he cant wait for it to be over..... i get mixed signals ALL the time.... i did alot of things complete opposite of how I should have for DBing, and I prob really messed this up myself, but i am starting to get to a point where i feel like he isnt the man i have loved and have been married to... so do I even want this marriage? my stress has gone way down... i feel like i am in a little more control of the situation cause now i can decide if i even want it
robx absolutely no on every question. like i said before I have my flaws, but I know I'm not all things my says i am now. I'm proud of who i am and what I've achieved. I'm proud of the progress I've made in a few months, and I hope to continue to do so.
peace I don't feel you're judging me at all. I value your opinion because your on the opposite side of this. i have improved myself in a short time, and will continue to do so. It really sucks that it took something like this to make me look at myself, but you can't fix what your unaware people see as a problem.
Meg I already feel like this isn't the woman i married, and honestly i don't want to be with this person right now. She has said some very hurtful and mean things to me, and I value myself too much to accept that. i know it will be awkward and very difficult. The difference in my situation is i know I'm going home separated.
I for the first time in my life like the person i look at in the mirror. i took pictures of myself and posted them on Facebook to show how good I look after losing the weigh and putting on muscle. i keep staring at the pictures because i can't believe it.
Thanks to all the advice and the stuff i have read I know I'm already on the road to being a better person. I accept all the blame when this first happened, but I no longer do. However, I do accept my part in it. I have insecurity issues that I will continue to work on with IC when I return home.
Even now i feel that my W will be missing out on a good thing. I'm not being blind, I know I'm not perfect, but I'm a H most woman would love to have (not saying I'm already moving on).
I certainly hope in the end to save my M, or else i wouldn't be here. However, if I don't I know I will have done everything that I knew I needed to do. I will be stronger and much improved when this is over whatever the outcome.
Another question I just thought of that gives me a little bit of a disadvantage. People talk about doing things to let the other one know what life is without the other. Well, I've been gone for six months and she's been living life without me. Obviously she prefers it that way or she wouldn't be doing what she's doing.
I'm not sure if this even means anything or not. I was just reading someones post where they were telling them to stop doing what they usually do and show the other what it's like to not have them. I just feel that me being gone has shown her exactly that.
I could just be doing the mind wandering thing again, but these are the things I think of. I keep them to myself, but now I have you guys to share them with.
Another question I just thought of that gives me a little bit of a disadvantage. People talk about doing things to let the other one know what life is without the other. Well, I've been gone for six months and she's been living life without me. Obviously she prefers it that way or she wouldn't be doing what she's doing.
I'm not sure if this even means anything or not. I was just reading someones post where they were telling them to stop doing what they usually do and show the other what it's like to not have them. I just feel that me being gone has shown her exactly that.
I could just be doing the mind wandering thing again, but these are the things I think of. I keep them to myself, but now I have you guys to share them with.
You are doing the mind wandering thing. You have no idea what is going through her mind. You aint gonna know either. My W was busy trying to get out of the M. She was making plans, fantasizing about what life will be like without me, doing stupid crap that started a bunch of drama...plenty of stuff to keep her busy.
Eventually it will all come to an end. She won't be busy trying to plan to get out of the sitch because she will be out and all the logistics will be done. Then she'll be sitting there with no boogey man to focus on.
Of course they are going to be relieved and happy. They're getting what they want (or at least what they think they want). There will always be a sense of relief and happiness because they have arrived. It's like buying a new car. Anticipation on getting it, getting it smelling that new car smell, feeling how tight the suspension is, etc... after a while it becomes just another vehicle.
For the WAS those focus points will fade. Then the reality that life isn't much different for them because all they are doing is switching seats on the Titanic. They think changing external circumstances will change how they feel. It won't. They need to change internally, like you and I are doing. If they don't do that they'll just repeat the same cycles over and over again.
Stop trying to guess the future. Just assume she is happy with her 'new' life right now. Just accept it and do what you need to do for yourself and your kids. When you see your mind wandering over to her, just laugh at it then bring it back onto you.
What she's doing or feeling is her business and not yours. Your stuff is yours, her stuff is hers. Work on it.
You keep hearing not to talk about the R. What if the W brings up the R, do you talk about it then?
If she wants to talk about R or D or anything for that matter just let her talk. Validate what she is saying. If she wants to make plans concerning the D...such as, I called a lawyer, or this is what we need to do for the separation, etc... then just go with it. It's going to give you a giant basketball in the pit of your stomach and that anxiety will kick in, but do your best to just hold that inside. No faces, no poor me, no hurt expression. Just go with it as if you are in total agreement with it.
Don't initiate and D stuff, don't fight it, don't stop it or interfere with it. That's what I was told. Let her initiate it and do anything that has to do with it.
If she brings up R or M talk your first instinct will be to defend yourself, point out her flaws, tell her you think she's making it worse than it really is, tell her she's re-writing the past, etc... You need to allow that stuff to run through your mind but DO NOT express them to her. Come here to vent.
The best piece of advice I can give you - don't talk without thinking. Pause and allow what she says to sink in without knee jerk responding to it. We have a tendency to not listen and to be sitting there thinking about some kind of rebuttal.
Listen. Wait. Think. Then speak. Make it a slow rhythm on your part. Talk slowly because we tend to get excited because of the anxiousness and move too quickly to speak.
Look into her eyes. I don't mean stare at her. We also have the tendency to look away when we are getting words that we don't want to hear.
Above all else, do not argue under any circumstance. If you feel you are getting heated up or the conversation begins to move into argument mode, just excuse yourself. Just say you need some time to get your head together. Then do it. It's drawing a boundary.
You can even say, "This is turning into an argument and I don't want to argue. I need some time to get myself centered" or something to that effect.
All this advice is great, and I hope I can remeber it and practice it. I know this is about me and the girls now. It still doesn't make it any easier, but I know my focus needs to shift.
I wish things weren't the way they are, but they are and I have to accept it. This woman has hurt me like no other the past few months, yet I still hope for a future together. Hopefully that doesn't make me weak. I just value my M, and still intend for it to be forever. However, she would have to make changes herself because the person she is now isn't my W.
I now have my itenerary in hand and know exactly when I'm getting home. It really makes me nervous, and I'm sure when I tell her it will have the same effect.
meghunny, I'm not sure where you are in Turkey, but I'll be passing through Adana on my return home. I hope you are doing well in your sitch.
I am at Incirlik AB which is in the city of Adana. My sitch is real crazy right now... we have a counseling appt today so we will see how that goes, but I dont have high expectations. Its difficult, because I had decided to leave here and go home and give up, which i can tell he isnt ready for, but he is still far from ready to keep this M together...so I have to make the painful decision for myself... I am playing it all by ear at this point.
Incirlik is where I'm stopping for a few hours. i had a brain fart and couldn't remember the name of the base.
Unfortunately we all have a difficult decision to make when it comes to our sitch. It appears as though it never gets easy.
Now that I know when I'm going home I have all kinds of thoughts swirling through my head. you always envision you return from a deployment being a certain way, and mine won't be that way. it kind of crushes a guys spirit.
detaching has to be the most difficult thing someone can do in a situation like this. i find it difficult to detach from someone I haven't even seen yet. There's so many different thoughts and scenarios going through my head. I just hope and pray that it's easier than what I'm imagining.
today my W emailed me to tell me how my D14 had lied and is now grounded. I responded to her that i hope we can get that under wraps very soon, or else she'll be spending her high school years grounded. She's been talked to by you and by me. I guess the freedom she once enjoyed is going to have to be earned once again.
after that I told her when i would be coming home, which is 9 April, right around the corner. She responded K sounds good. Very short, and obviously doesn't sound good to her. I'm pretty sure she's very panicky now. Probably just as nervous as me.
she had mentioned to me and others that she was worried i was going to come home crazy from Afghanistan. I went to mental health and got interviewed today. They said no depression, no combat stress, no PTSD, fit for full duty. I now have it in writing on paper from two doctors that I'm good to go. I did that in case she starts something, and to ease her mind.
They said all the feelings I'm going through over here are completely normal for someone in my situation. The Doctor said I'm acting like everyone else he's seen go through this in his 35 years of practicing.
That and how I'm feeling physically are really starting to turn my attitude around. I still hate whats happening, but I'm feeling great about me.
My w just sent me another email. my best friend had called and spoke to her last week. She emailed me this:
Look. I know that you have spoken to friend and he has probably told you a lot of his opinion of how the conversation went. One thing is for certain that he said. I am angry. I have been angry for a long time. We have a lot of issues that have to be addressed. I don't know when a good time to address those issues will be. I do know that I am very unhappy and have been for a while. I am unhappy with myself and with you.
This was my response:
friend has said very little to me, nor have I asked. That conversation was between you and him, it wasn't for me I understand how you feel. We will address those issues when we are ready to do so. You have my full cooperation on anything and everything.
How was my response? Do you think the reality of me coming home is starting to hit her?
Sounds like it is hitting her hard from her email.
Let it simmer in her mind. But do not give her anything for her to be fearfull of. Be the rock. Stable, strong, independant and detached from her.
Your response could not have been better IMHO.
Deal with the issues when you are ready and stay out of her way as others have suggested.
That is one thing I could never do and is probably why Im divorced now.
Good luck tbart.
bart, that response was fine. Don't take any of what she wrote as meaning anything. One thing you could have added was you understand that she is angry and you understand why she is very angry. That's validating.
I think the best time to address those issues is after a cooling off period for the both of you. To go head first into them as soon as you get home in my opinion would be a mistake. Don't initiate it. If she does, just validate her feelings.
One other thing...don't go into a list of the things you know you've done wrong. Just address the issues she brings up. For every thing you bring up you will be bringing them back up in her mind. You might also add things she isn't even thinking about and that will add more fuel to the fire.
Don't talk about your changes. That will backfire. Just keep doing the positive things and she will see the changes. Believe me, her eyes are on you right now. Don't tell her, show her.
The hardest thing you're going to have to do is to act as if you are detached and ok with the whole thing.
Don't try to convince her of anything. Stay away from your urge to defend or explain yourself. Never mind trying to point out any of her flaws.
My opinion, and you'll find this hard to see, is the physical separation will be good for both of you.
Remember - DO NOT PURSUE. She can't chase someone who isn't moving away or at least not following her.
You need to dig deep for what you need to do. I'm sure you've dug deep many times before. Find it inside yourself and do it. There is no maybe, I'll try or I can't....there's only DO.
My w just sent me another email. my best friend had called and spoke to her last week. She emailed me this:
Look. I know that you have spoken to friend and he has probably told you a lot of his opinion of how the conversation went. One thing is for certain that he said. I am angry. I have been angry for a long time. We have a lot of issues that have to be addressed. I don't know when a good time to address those issues will be. I do know that I am very unhappy and have been for a while. I am unhappy with myself and with you.
This was my response:
friend has said very little to me, nor have I asked. That conversation was between you and him, it wasn't for me I understand how you feel. We will address those issues when we are ready to do so. You have my full cooperation on anything and everything.
How was my response? Do you think the reality of me coming home is starting to hit her?
that last line was a little much but I liked the overall tone of your message, you were direct, didn't back down, instead of saying "I understand how you feel" because honestly you don't, you can say "I understand that this might make you feel uncomfortable". I liked the part that you told her that you would address the issues when you're ready - you weren't pushing for a discussion as soon as you got off the plane, you weren't sucking up to her, you were being direct and saying it like it is and that they need to be discussed.
So far so good.
Sounds like I'm starting to understand. I just need to stay on the right track. She hadn't said much to me in quite some time, so this email came out of the blue. It made me realize that she now sees I'm going to come home.
Once we do have the convo I have all kinds of answers running through my head, some right and some wrong. I would never bring up anything to give her additional ammo, but do I say I'm angry and unhappy about these things to. I realize these things and that's why I'm making sure hey don't happen again in any relationship. You see where I'm trying to go with this? Not sure which direction to go.
I guess what i'm trying to ask is when I get home and we finally have this converstation, how do I respond? She's going to rain down fire and I'm going to validate. Where do I go with the rest of the convesation? I have my own complaints and hurts that have surfaced since this started, but I will not do there or bring that stuff up.
I can't just validate what she says and leave it at that. Don't I have to have a moving forward from the validation point? I will not argue or be defensive about anything, but I have to say something about something don't I?
tbart you bring a really interesting point. Sometimes I wish I had stood up more and called her on some of her B.S. But then I look and see she actually buys her twisting and embellishing of the truth as being reality - so I would have just knocked her further back in or would I have? I can't answer this question.
In the beginning of my sitch I would have just said validate and don't push back. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe peace2u will chime in and give you her perspective.
I can't just validate what she says and leave it at that. Don't I have to have a moving forward from the validation point? I will not argue or be defensive about anything, but I have to say something about something don't I?
Sure you can just validate and leave it at that. It's not up to you to move it forward at this point. Do you think she wants to move it forward in the same direction that you consider forward? I imagine she may rain down on you, but then what? What could she possibly do after that? Either she will leave everything neutral, move toward separation or move toward reconciliation. What other choices are there?
Those are all valid points steady, but I guess i don't to validate and just let her think she's right and I'm moving on. I guess that's the whole point of what I am supposed to do, but I'm also taking action to better myself and make sure I don't make the same mistakes in this relationship or future relationships.
You know as well as I do that this is touchy. She views me as weak, unable to stand on my own two feet, controlling, jealous, and clingy. Moving on would definitely show change in me, and it would show myself that I can do these things. The controlling has to do with my jealousy because she feels she hasn't been able to do certain things.
I just don't want to come off as weak little pansey. At the same time I don't want to be defensive and confrontational because that's how I would have acted in the past.
Yes it is touchy I think.
For some reason I just had the thought. I wish I had said this to my W in the beginning:
"You know, I understand you're very angry and confused. We both made mistakes in this marriage and that put us in the position we are in now. I'm taking responsibility for the mistakes I've made and am working very hard at becoming the man I really wanted to be - not the man I ended up being.
I know you need time and space to think about what you want to do. I know I don't want a divorce and I prefer we work through our issues and build a fantastic relationship.
While you take the time and space you need to decide, I will be moving forward improving myself and my life. Now if you'd excuse me, I have a life to live."
And then leave it at that. I would have allowed her to tell me all her complaints one time without me walking away - not over and over and over again. (I'd have to think about this one)
The point is, I wish I had:
1. Agreed I had mistakes and included her in the mistake making by using the word we in we made mistakes
2. Acknowledged the mistakes (one time) and worked on them
3. Let her know I wasn't a doormat to be beat up over and over with the same complaints about the past.
4. Shown her I wanted to save my M but I was also moving forward with my life. Not moving on, but moving forward.
5. Not gotten sucked in emotionally to any of our conversations - have the ability to calmly in a very balanced way communicate with her.
tbart I know it's very confusing and you'll sometimes get opposite viewpoints. In hindsight I wish I had played things differently. I'm not so sure I agree with the constant validate and be nice theory - I accept it as something good when they first rain down hell, but after that it's just her complaining over and over again - basically continually smashing you in the head with a frying pan.
Not very sexy or attractive to a woman if a man allows themselves to be a doormat.
You pretty much just sent me exactly what I was thinking. Those are the types of things i was thinking needed to be added. it doesn't seem as though you can continue to validate and get anywhere.
Validate - her feelings
"I feel like you didn't listen to me."
"I understand how you can see things that way."
Call out BS - facts, values
"You never listened to me."
"I can understand there are times I failed to listen. To characterise it as never is not true and I will not let you position me that way. I have listened and helped you on numerous occasions, (give examples.....)"
Don't let her tell you that you never or always act a certain way. Don't let her tell you how you feel or think.
Validate her but stand up for yourself.
Again, sort of what i was thinking. It didn't make sense to think you had to sit there and just take it. However, I know not to come across as argumentative or as an a$$. I'll be more than happy to own up to my mistakes, but i will not take the blame for everything.
omg....i JUST had this episode with my H while all you guys were writing this.
I'm at work, mind you - and he starts an R talk on the phone....
And the whole time he's talking...I'm thinking everything you guys mentioned above. Am I supposed to let him get his words out? Am I supposed to validate his feelings even though they are DEAD wrong? Am I supposed to take charge and hang up on him?
Don't know..I ended up letting him talk while repeatedly giving him the strong hint that I needed to get my work done???... But he's an ALL together different story.
But, as for you, tbart...showing your W that you have yourself under control, without retaliating would be the best course of action. Get out of defensive mode - like try not to even go there. I get stuck there alot.
I agree with Coach and Steady, on how to handle it.
Thanks peace I was waiting for you lend some advice. I don't ever bring up R talk, and I don't plan to be the one to do so.
I know how you feel. The question was just entering my brain as H was talking to me this morning.
Am I giving him power by letting him get all his words out and me just sitting here taking it?
I couldn't have retaliated, if I wanted to, since I'm at work...
R talk is pointless. Use my H as a "WHAT NOT TO DO" example.
Yesterday, I found a note I wrote to him well over a year ago on his dresser. I read it and it deeply saddened me that absolutely nothing had changed. nothing except me being a stronger person, and my reaction to his schtuff....
dunno... I hope that's not the case for you. I hope that things will progress quickly in the best way for you.
It's just weird that all this happened today at the exact time you were all typing about the same subject. Coincidence? I think not.
Am I giving him power by letting him get all his words out and me just sitting here taking it?
Just as long as he doesn't cross any boundaries it's great. All of this has been bottled up and needs to be released. Be glad it is being released on you, it shows he still is emotionally involved with you. How many women complain that their husband doesn't talk to them? Focus on really listening. Empathise and validate when appropriate. It might not seem like it but it's good to have these kind of dialouges. Make sure you are engaged and responding, setting healthy boundaries and not allowing any mindreading.
If you have learned new tools for improving relationships then you are modeling good behavior for him. He is watching you more than you realise. You can handle it.
Cheers
Validate - her feelings
"I feel like you didn't listen to me."
"I understand how you can see things that way."
Call out BS - facts, values
"You never listened to me."
"I can understand there are times I failed to listen. To characterise it as never is not true and I will not let you position me that way. I have listened and helped you on numerous occasions, (give examples.....)"
Don't let her tell you that you never or always act a certain way. Don't let her tell you how you feel or think.
Validate her but stand up for yourself.
This is why I love you coach...in a friendly kind of way...lol
It wasn't until I actually detached and saw I had nothing to lose that I really started to stand up to her cr@p. I can't explain the unbelievably positive feeling it gave me but I can say I was finally free inside. It was in me the whole time and I was just holding it back - holding back the power that follows and expression of yourself. I let it loose, and instead of it being destructive, it rebuilt me.
I could be me and not worry about anything. No eggshells. If I didn't agree, I said that. If I thought I was being abused I drew a boundary.
Just last week W and I had a disagreement. She was trying to tell me I didn't remember an episode with my S (she wasn't even there), I disagreed and she rolled her eyes.
The kids were there so I couldn't say what I wanted at that time. We parted ways and she had the kids. A very short time later I texted her:
"I'd appreciate it if you didn't tell me I don't remember something when I know for a fact I do remember. Also, please don't roll your eyes at me when we disagree - it's very disrespectful.
I'm drawing boundaries and standing up for myself. I'm not going to be disrespected or abused and take it.
Does she respect me for taking a stand. Who knows..the point is I don't care if she does or not. I respect myself. And that's the whole point of where I'm at - I don't need her validation or the validation of others. I can finally self-validate. I believe a woman will find that very attractive. (It's not that I don't care about other people's opinions, but the bottom line is I will decide where I am)
She had pulled the never and always cr@p. That's one of the few things I'd call her on when it happened.
I'm drawing boundaries and standing up for myself. I'm not going to be disrespected or abused and take it.
That's something I need to work on, big time. But alot of the times I don't catch the abuse until later..in hindsight...since I've become sickly used to it.
robX posted this on another thread and I thought it would be helpful here. It's along the same lines as what we've been talking about:
Let's get you started with some new points for you to consider going forward:
- you don't need to pursue your wife, create some space, move in the opposite direction. Human nature dictates we pursue what we want and don't have but it also dictates that we run away from things that pursue us
- you don't need to convince your wife that you're worth her approval, doing so communicates the opposite
- you don't have to be worried about rocking the boat, afraid to upset your wife, rock the f!@#$* boat, it's OK, you won't drown
- it's ok to mess up, don't worry about having alot to lose, technically you've lost it already but you're still worried about losing it, this is your anxiety talking and it translates in your body language and your actions towards your wife (a$$ kissing, supplicating, being overly nice, etc.)
- if she rejects you it will be the most important event of your life and the end of the world..... no it won't.
- you had better impress your wife as often as you can..... no you don't have to and it works against you if you try to do this
- you should let your wife be in control of the entire situation you're in.... no you don't have to do that, it's ok to stand up for yourself if you feel she is taking advantage of you or using or abusing you, remember you have self-respect (and if you don't have self-respect put it on your to do list of most important things to do)
- if your wife isn't interested in you, it must be your fault.... yeah partially but if another man is in the picture, there isn't much you can do about this except focus on living a great life for yourself and moving on, if she doesn't value you or the relationship she has with you, it's her loss, not yours, get into that mindset
- "Nice guys" finish first and you had better be "nice" to your wife.... well I can agree you can be nice but don't be a "nice guy" who lets her walk all over you, being a doormat is extremely unattractive
peace I became very used to it also. You can still address it later on. It's best when it's in the moment, but you can take care of it later on.
I couldn't address that specific episode until later on because my kids were there. I still addressed it and didn't sweep it under the rug.
It's just weird that all this happened today at the exact time you were all typing about the same subject. Coincidence? I think not.
Synchronicity baby. Just tells me we're on the right track at this given moment. It's a beautiful thing.
I talked to my W yesterday for about 30 minutes. It was nothing significant, just about the kids, my health, her health, and small talk. It was nice to speak to her after a week.
I was looking through my Facebook and cleaning out old posts. I saw messages from thanksgiving and yesterday with her saying she loved and missed me. It was right after that the bottom fell out. I wish things could be like they used to be, but I know they can't.
I wish there was some kind of magic that would make her actually enjoy seeing me when I get off the airplane. Why does this have to be so painful? I just want the family that I left back.
Sorry, this is just me being sad. It happens from time to time, and with me so close to going home it's even worse.
Well this is the place to vent your feelings. We've ALL been there, trust me.
I'm STILL there at times.
This is the time when you'll be mourning the loss of what you thought you had. Let yourself feel all the emotions.
(HUGS)
tbart you're not alone. I had one of those this morning. It happens.
I'm sitting here alone in my room, in Afghanistan, just waiting for her to email me or something. I know it won't happen, but I like it when she does. It doesn't even have to be anything significant, but just to have her acknowledge me is nice.
Just got done shedding a few tears and I feel more coming on. The next two weeks waiting to go home is going to be so hard. I just hope once I'm home with my daughters it will be easier.
Had to have a little minor surgery yesterday, so I'm unable to go to the gym and work this out. Seems like I have more difficult days when I can't work out. I pray for strength and patience.
I'm sitting here alone in my room, in Afghanistan, just waiting for her to email me or something. I know it won't happen, but I like it when she does. It doesn't even have to be anything significant, but just to have her acknowledge me is nice.
Tbart, Happiness is a inside job. Learn to acknowledge yourself. The military is great at extrinsic motivation, learn how to do intrinsic motivation. Take care of yourself, validate your accomplishments, list your goals, plan for yourself and be grateful for what you do have.
Change your thoughts. What do you have control over? What are your goals? How will you achieve and measure them? What are you going to do for yourself today? Who will you help? What will you learn?
You can handle it.
Strength and Honor.
Coach
I was writing in my journal and decided to write it her so my DB friends can see.
Nothing has changed in my sitch other than we communicate less. I've been holding myself together fairly well for the most part, but of course i have bad days.
I still analyze what the W doing and what she is thinking or feeling. I know what I come up with may or may not be wrong. i still feel she hates me, doesn't miss me at all, and may even possibly have someone else waiting in the wings. For example, her email the other day. Was she trying to reaffirm her anger and unhappiness? Should I at least be happy that she wants to address these things?
I've also had time to analyze myself. I had thought I was the man I wanted to be, but I don't feel i am. I'm making steps to improve myself, but i find that as i improve some things, I'm also losing who i am. I'm no longer the fun loving, laughing, joking, fun to be around guy that I was. I know this all has to do with the way I'm handling things, and that's my doing.
I'm obviously not happy knowing my life as I knew it is over. I now have to re-prioritize and focus on new and different things.
I badly want things to work out between my w and i , but I have to somehow prepare for if they don't. I still love my W very much, but i don't like who she is right now. She seems to have completely detached from me, and I guess that's good for her.
It seems as though she no longer includes me in her life, and it still boggles my mind that she can s easily start treating me like this.
It also bothers me that she was capable of faking our last week together before i left. How much more of our marriage was faked by her? Did she even really fake that week, or is she once again just trying to hurt me?
I go home in two weeks and i have no idea what to expect. I'm happy, anxious, nervous, and sad. I'm feeling so many different emotions at the same time. I definitely want my W back, but not who she is now. Actually, I really don't mind the person she is now, just not the way she's acting towards me.
She's starting to act with a little more confidence and mojo, and i think it's great. That is the person I married, but she's never acted so hateful towards me.
I know just how you feel tbart... and now more than ever i realize why they advise us here on this board to figure out how to detach ourselves. There is an article floating around here somewhere on detachment, i will have to try to find it. When i read it, it helps me. The purpose of it is a few different reasons: one being that while we are so ATTACHED it does nothing to help our situation, only makes it worse, only pushes our spouse further away.... and two, it helps us maintain our sanity, its phycially and mentally exhausting to be so attached to someone that is not reciprocating our feelings. And three, it will be one step closer for you to heal if things dont end up working out...so its a win/win. It doesnt mean that we act cold or harsh or mean... it just means that we stop depending on our spouse for our own happiness and allow them to figure this thing out on their own. It is toxic to be so attached to someone when they are not attached to us in the same way... it hurts you and it pushes them.... it is easy to do...NO...but it is necessary. Its a mental thing, it doesnt mean you have to start neglecting her and being a jerk... its hard to explain, i gotta find that article.
I have detached as much as I possibly can being that I'm not home. I only call the one time a week when she asks me to. I make no other contact unless in response to something she initiated.
Emotionally I haven't been able to detach. Yes I'm trying to prepare myself for what the possibilities may be. However, it's difficult to emotionally detach when all i have is thoughts and memories to go off of.
It's hard enough to go through something like this, but it's even harder when you're now even there to face it. I so much want this time away to be beneficial to her, but I'm afraid that it will be just beginning when i return home.
I don't know what my return is going to be like, nor does she. I hope for good communication and interaction when I return home, but I just don't know. I know I can do it, but I'm not so sure if she can do it. This isn't the same woman that said good bye to me almost six months ago.
Yes I know, its crazy hard... and I havent detached either... but I do mean it in a mental way, not just no calls or what not...its like getting to a point where you dont care what happens either way...not that you dont care cause of course you do...but that you can deal with it either way...and you can step outside of this and look at it from a new perspective, not as the victim, but see that while yes you do love your W and you want your M... it does not make or break YOU as a person... love your W, but love yourself more... when i get home i can find the article.
Ok, so I think you are correct, when you get home will be only the beginning... right now there is no way to know what that will be like. How it played out for me was this: building up to him coming home i was just like you are now, its the constant fear of the unknown, but also that extra glimmer of hope because you dont know... my anxiety was much worse building up to him returning that it has been since he has been here. So thats a plus... it was like i had been waiting and waiting for him to get here to see... and then he was here, and that anxiety escaped...and then i had a new set of things to deal with, life now that he is here. Once he got home, it was all about what actually was happening, not what COULD happen... so its a little bit easier in that sense... but honestly, i can see that i went wrong with not following the DB rules... i pushed a little too much too soon and expected too much... and it backfired for sure... so you HAVE to detach emotionally or you will do it too
Thanks for the response meg. It all makes allot of sense. i know it will be the end of the unknown, but the beginning of the next chapter. I'm sure my W is going through the same thing because she doesn't know how I'll be.
I do know that this won't break me or stop my life. However, it will cause me to change direction in life. the easier piece will be the fact that I'll be with my two beautiful daughters. Nothing will beat the feeling I'll have when I see those two again.
Things aren't going to get better overnight and I know that. I've already called and I have counseling set up for myself as soon as I get home. I don't want to wait on getting myself moving forward.
A view from a AWAW
I still analyze what the W doing and what she is thinking or feeling. I know what I come up with may or may not be wrong. i still feel she hates me, doesn't miss me at all, and may even possibly have someone else waiting in the wings. For example, her email the other day. Was she trying to reaffirm her anger and unhappiness? Should I at least be happy that she wants to address these things?
I've also had time to analyze myself. I had thought I was the man I wanted to be, but I don't feel i am. I'm making steps to improve myself, but i find that as i improve some things, I'm also losing who i am. I'm no longer the fun loving, laughing, joking, fun to be around guy that I was. I know this all has to do with the way I'm handling things, and that's my doing.
It seems as though she no longer includes me in her life, and it still boggles my mind that she can s easily start treating me like this.
It also bothers me that she was capable of faking our last week together before i left. How much more of our marriage was faked by her? Did she even really fake that week, or is she once again just trying to hurt me?
I definitely want my W back, but not who she is now. Actually, I really don't mind the person she is now, just not the way she's acting towards me.
She's starting to act with a little more confidence and mojo, and i think it's great. That is the person I married, but she's never acted so hateful towards me.
The above could have been written by my H. These are things he says to me all the time. PROJECTIONS
It is great that you journal it here, that's what you should do....but PLEASE do not say it to your W.
You're putting words in her mouth and are assuming her thoughts. Her thoughts are really none of your business. Anybody's thoughts about you are none of your business.
Like I've said before, I have NO idea why she's wanting out, what brought her to that point. But remember and keep this in your head...she is going through her crap, too.
You don't know if she 'faked' the last week with you. It's possible for her to still care for you.
I know you have to be hurting, and if she is a good person - she's not enjoying hurting you. Her opinion and feelings are still worth valuing.
just read that you have counseling set up..
Awesome! Really - you have progressed a LOT just since I've started reading this thread. And it's great that you are willing to continue working on you and work through everything that is heading your way.
Peace i would never say those things to my W, that's why I wrote them here. I'm not stupid, I know better than to say things like this to her. I'm smart enough to write these things here, in my journal, or say them to someone other than my W.
Those were just some random thoughts that I had to write down so I could get them out of my head. Being that I still haven't been home to hear the reasons for this, all I can do is analyze.
I know my W still cares about me and loves me, but to what extent I don't know. I'm in Afghanistan and I rarely hear from her anymore unless the kids have done something. If she gets an uplifting email at work she sends them to me. i just don't know what to think.
I know I need to move on and make improvements, so I figured why wait until I get home to line up counseling. The sooner I start the sooner I'll be able to move forward.
tbart,
I know exactly how you feel about her faking it. In my sitch me and my XW took a two week vacation together and even made love. I thought for sure that our marriage would last a lifetime, especially after spending some quality time with her during our vacation.
Well guess what? She drops an A-Bomb on me two weeks later. Asked her why she ML to me and went on vacation with me and she said out right that she faked it because she thought it was what I wanted. WOW! It must have been traumatic for her to have spent time with me and f*** me! (Sarcasm).
Anyway, It is good that your W wants to bring up issues. I actually envy you because of this. With my XW she just rolled over one morning and said she wanted out of the marriage with zero discussion or argument etc. Been divorced since Feb and I'm still clueless as to why she left me. Never told me anything other than IDLYA. If your wife wants to talk about issues this is FANTASTIC. All her hatefullness aside, It means she may want to work things out. Why else?
Listen to MH about detachment. Some of us will never completely detach. After being with the woman 23 years how can I? But detachment is the key here. It is a healing process and it has helped me greatly. Detach Detach Detach. It's the only way your going to be able do deal with all this and keep your sanity.
Wishing you the best.
didn't mean to go off on you tbart - it just struck a cord with me because my H IS actually stupid enough to say them outloud to me over and over and over for 3 years - even up to a couple days ago.
I know you're not stupid. You're here - keep journaling....its good for the soul.
peace i meant nothing by it. trust me you cant offend me by anything you say to me. I was just responding bluntly, that's just the way I roll.
I just want to get home, let the fire rain down on me, and get moving forward.
Maybe your H could take a few cues from me on not what to do.
She's starting to act with a little more confidence and mojo, and i think it's great. That is the person I married, but she's never acted so hateful towards me.
tbart, keep an eye on this. My W got confidence and mojo but it kept intensifying to the point where she was abusing me and walking over me. I didn't draw boundaries when it first started happening and that was a mistake I made.
When they have that power and see the can wield it - especially when we're walking on eggshells and not wanting to 'rock the boat', like a child, they will push to see where the boundaries are.
My W started wielding hers like a sword. Just keep an eye on it and make sure it doesn't get into abuse territory.
Steady I will definately not allow her to walk over me. We really haven't talked enough lately for her to do that, but when I get home I'll watch out for it.
I don't like calling home to speak with my daughter and all my daughter does is tell me how much she hates mom. She keeps telling me that she doesn't like how my W has changed and how mean she's been. I keep trying to calm the situation and get her to see things differently but it doesn't seem to work.
Here's another question. When I get home and we finally have our talk, she's going to bring up finances. She's going to blame me for the fact that we're not where she'd like to be financialy. We live well, have allot of things, but savings is scarce.
She's brought up money to others and she blames me. Last time I checked everything we have is in both our names, so obviously we both bought the stuff. Unfortunately, things have come up that we've had to use savings for. Her self employment went under, she's been fired three times.
Obviously where we're at or not at financialy isn't all my fault. My question would be, how do you validate that one when she brings it up?
Someone please try to answer my previous question, but I need to vent for a moment.
I was doing pretty good today until a song came on the radio that my W had told me back in December reminded her of us. It's from Theory of a Deadman, and it's called "Not Meant To Be". Now I can't get the dang song out of my head and I'm pi$$ed.
She's so dang selfish she's got my D wanting to leave home. I called my house, W answered, I said how are you, is D there, she said yes, want to speak to her, and I said yes. That was it.
All my D could do was tell me how much she hates her mother, the house, and the neighborhood. She said she doesn't like the way mom is being and she hates her.
I tried to calm my D, but it didn't work. I told her that her mom was a good mom, but she's going through something right now. You need to give your mom love and respect. My D said that my W doesn't respect her. Conversation went on like this for awhile.
I told her she can't dislike the house and the neighborhood, because that's where were going to live. I said besides I'll be home in two weeks. She said she'll like the house and neighborhood when I return.
My W is being so dang selfish. She has absolutely no idea what the he!! she's doing to the children and this family. It absolutely crushes me to hear my D say the things she's saying, but my W is causing it. I'm trying to stand by my W and defend her, but it's getting harder. My D isn't stupid, she knows how she feels.
My D said she can see that I have and am continuing to change. I'm really starting to get mad as he!! the more I think about what my W is doing. Of course I won't express any of this to her, that's why I'm here.
I just want to get home and have this conversation. I want to hear what she has to say, then I want my turn. I know everything she's going to say is total B.S, but of course I can't tell her that.
I then want to tell her that the cards were stacked against me along time ago. I want to tell her I know her chicken sh!t a$$ sent me to a combat zone so she could plan to leave me while I was here in danger at all times (of course I won't).
I'm going to validate what I can, then tell her that my intentions were never to marry her and make her unhappy. I'll tell her that I haven't become the man I wanted to be. I don't want to D or S, but you do what you have to do. However, I'm going to move forward and continue to make steps to become the man I want to be.
I really don't know what to think or how to feel anymore. I haven't even gotten home to speak to my W and I'm ready to give up. This is draining as he!!. I've been in a combat zone dealing with this crap since just after Thanksgiving. I guess I'm not as weak as I thought, I'm still here doing my job aren't I? This is the single most chicken sh!t, selfish thing anyone could do.
Sorry about all of this, but I'm angry right now. Listening to Iron Maiden and Ozzy probably isn't helping me, but I needed to get that song out of my head.
I just don't know how to handle this anymore.
Here's another question. When I get home and we finally have our talk, she's going to bring up finances. She's going to blame me for the fact that we're not where she'd like to be financialy. We live well, have allot of things, but savings is scarce.
She's brought up money to others and she blames me. Last time I checked everything we have is in both our names, so obviously we both bought the stuff. Unfortunately, things have come up that we've had to use savings for. Her self employment went under, she's been fired three times.
Obviously where we're at or not at financialy isn't all my fault. My question would be, how do you validate that one when she brings it up?
uggg!!!
you are still applying logic to her emotional feelings,
this is her emotions talking right now.
She's an adult, it's 2010, are you saying she wasn't capable of contributing to your financial status? She made choices as well as you did. She's complaining about money only because there is nothing for her to take so that she can start her new life, are you seriously that blind, give your head a shake. When she blames you, tell her to take those fingers and point them at herself as well and ask her what she did to help with your current financial situation, was she part of the problem or solution? Don't always take it on as your responsibility, you have your answer.
and in case you were wondering, the answer is you don't have to validate that argument, it's silly, just ask her what she did to help with the situation and then take the discussion from there. If she starts an argument just tell her, I'm not here to argue with you, I asked you a question, if you can't answer it, then don't think I'm going to sit here and listen to you blame me for our financial situation, you're an adult just like me, you could have helped with this just as much as i did but as it stands you're just complaining and that won't help so this discussion is over until you're ready to talk like an adult.
robx this crap is hard as he!!. I wan't to argue back just like you say, but all the advice we get on here says not to. I get the impression we're supposed to treat the WAW with kid gloves. I don't wan't to sit there and take the blame for something that isn't all my fault.
All I keep hearing is validate, validate, validate. doesn't that mean sit there like a little b!tch and take the blame for everything? We don't have to leave our spines behind while we have this talk with them?
I know almost everything she throws is going to have a very valid rebuttal, but where do i draw the line?
Do I even bring up the fact that I know she was planning this before I left? I know I'm going to want to mention this at some point, but will it set me back.
I was chatting with my D14 last night and she mentioned that my W had told her at one point that our problems were not fixable. How do you tell a 14 year old that.
My D14 sees that I'm trying, but she's telling me not to carry on with this if it's so painfull. How can my D really want me to give up. She sees how hard I'm trying to do the right things, and she respects me for that.
This crap really hurts.
OK, I am in no possition to give advice. I sometimes dont even follow my own advice. But damn the torpedos I will anyway.
I would show your daughter that you are stronger than her mother. Reasure her that no matter what happens, things will be OK. And let her know you are not giving up. At the same time though, do not show your D any disrespect towards her mother. That will make you look weak and petty. Be the better person.
Let both your W and D know that you plan on fighting for your marriage because for you it's the right thing to do. And that you feel that anything can be fixed. It's never too late. Follow your own concience.
Remember, your W needs to find some justification for her actions and she may actually start believing all the BS she is spewing out even just to make herself feel better and aleviate her own guilt.
With that said, do not argue or yell. Take your time. Dont be aggressive but be firm and in control of yourself. Let both of them see that part of you. Think about what you are going to say before you say it.
Show your W that you can deal with the issues in a civil way. Keep yourself approachable to her and open to discussion. If she gets disrespecfull then walk away and tell her that you will not talk to her if she is going to be disrepectful or baiting. Validate her feelings but do not take blame for everythig she throws at you as being your fault. Just validate how you can "understand how she feels that way."
You havent gotten a response in a while so figured I would throw that at you. Night shifts are a bit boring at times.
Just remember, sometimes free advice is worth what you pay for it.
Here's another question. When I get home and we finally have our talk, she's going to bring up finances. She's going to blame me for the fact that we're not where she'd like to be financialy.
Yup. You can pretty much count on her blaming you for everything. Including how long the winter lasted and the amount of rain that came down. But it will only be bad things you get to be blamed for.
We live well, have allot of things, but savings is scarce.
She's brought up money to others and she blames me. Last time I checked everything we have is in both our names, so obviously we both bought the stuff. Unfortunately, things have come up that we've had to use savings for. Her self employment went under, she's been fired three times.
Obviously where we're at or not at financialy isn't all my fault. My question would be, how do you validate that one when she brings it up?
You don't validate it just as robx has said. You don't validate bullshite when it doesn't match the facts. The thing you validate are things that are perspectives that can be seen from their point of view. Here's an example:
I feel like you were never here for me - "Yes. There were times I wasn't there for you. I feel bad about that and I'm working on being a better me."
You spent $5,000 in the past month. (you didn't) - "No I didn't. Can you show me where that number came from"
The reason we have no money is your fault. - Can you show me how you think it's my fault?
The thing is, you can't prove or disprove someone else's feelings. Feelings aren't facts, they're just feelings. Whether they are justifiable or not is a different story. So it makes no sense to argue with a feeling. This you validate. Validation doesn't mean you believe it. It just means you see they believe it.
If you see what they are feeling is true, then you apologize, you change yourself, you move on.
You need to pick and choose the battles. But don't let her feed you bs without calling her on it. Believe me, I made that mistake for too long...and it didn't help me at all.
Do I even bring up the fact that I know she was planning this before I left? I know I'm going to want to mention this at some point, but will it set me back.
What's your intention for doing this? I say it's a 'rub your face into shite' kind of move? What would it benefit you or your family?
I was chatting with my D14 last night and she mentioned that my W had told her at one point that our problems were not fixable. How do you tell a 14 year old that.
Don't believe anything they say. She will say all kinds of shite. What would you think she would say? Oh, our problems are fixable, but I don't want to stay. (Wow that makes me look a selfish, callous, biatch. I guess I can't even entertain that thought at all lest I be called a homewrecker)
My W looked into her crystal ball and told me, "I know we could never have a husband/wife kind of relationship." lol Of course not. The wife half isn't there anymore...lmao.
She tells your daughter that to assuage her guilt. They don't care who they step on to feel better. She tells your daughter that in an attempt to convince your daughter things are not fixable. If she can get everyone to believe that, then they will agree with her - obviously if it ain't fixable, then it needs to be thrown out. So if everyone believes that, then no one will question her, they will all be behind her and she won't have to experience any guilt.
They build up a fantasy where their knight in shining armor swoops in and puts them on the white horse. They get to keep the house and the money, both families get along better than they ever did, you and her become best buddies, and she finds a relationship with absolutely no problems....LMAO.
Chase that rainbow. Just make sure you top off the tank first.
My D14 sees that I'm trying, but she's telling me not to carry on with this if it's so painful. How can my D really want me to give up. She sees how hard I'm trying to do the right things, and she respects me for that.
This crap really hurts.
Now slap yourself in the face. One more time. Yes it hurts, yes it sucks. Feel it, then let it go. Your daughter is only 14 and she's going to be very confused. She's going to say things off the cuff, things she doesn't mean but she feels in this moment. Just reassure her you will always be there for her.
Validate her too. Most of the time kids just want to know you understand what they are feeling and why they are feeling it.
Like it was mentioned before - don't slam your spouse to your D. Your W will likely do it to you. Don't use them as pawns or as a means to 'slip' some information to your W.
I'm just going through a really tough period right now. I see what I need to do more clearly now as far as the conversation. I now know the difference between validate and stand up for myself. i will in no way lay there like a door mat. i will call the B.S firmly and without anger. I have not at any point during this lost my cool
One thing my D can attest to is the fact that I have not once said anything negative to her about my W. I have let my D know on multiple occasions that I'm always going to be there for her. the problem is I'm not there right now, and that's killing me.
I have made it very clear to my D that I intend to fight for this marriage. It is very fixable, but it will eventually take both of us. Right now there's just one that wants to save it, and that's why my D worries about me. I know that I can do the right thing.
I just want to get this dang deployment over with, so I can stop wondering what is going on. i want to be able to face this crap for real.
This is by far the most difficult thing I've ever had to go through. Going through marriage problems isn't something I recommend in a combat zone.
I'm really trying to keep it together right now, but it's becoming very difficult.
robx this crap is hard as he!!. I wan't to argue back just like you say, but all the advice we get on here says not to. I get the impression we're supposed to treat the WAW with kid gloves. I don't wan't to sit there and take the blame for something that isn't all my fault.
All I keep hearing is validate, validate, validate. doesn't that mean sit there like a little b!tch and take the blame for everything? We don't have to leave our spines behind while we have this talk with them?
I know almost everything she throws is going to have a very valid rebuttal, but where do i draw the line?
actually tbart, I told you that you DON'T have to argue with her, you can still make your point but leave it at that.
robx this crap is hard as he!!. I wan't to argue back just like you say, but all the advice we get on here says not to. I get the impression we're supposed to treat the WAW with kid gloves. I don't wan't to sit there and take the blame for something that isn't all my fault.
All I keep hearing is validate, validate, validate. doesn't that mean sit there like a little b!tch and take the blame for everything? We don't have to leave our spines behind while we have this talk with them?
I know almost everything she throws is going to have a very valid rebuttal, but where do i draw the line?
I'm not a big fan of this validating idea.
And no it doesn't mean sit there like a little bitch and take the blame for everything, that would suck and your human and you could only keep that up for so long until you exploded and unloaded back on her twice as much as she gave you.
You could say "yeah I agree with you, financially it would be great to be in a better position but I'm only one person and couldn't do it all by myself, I needed help, everyone does, you're an adult, you were with me the whole time, you could have helped, you could have been more on top of this just as much as I could have been, I won't take 100% of the blame for this, just like our relationship, there is a dual responsibility involved here, not just single."
Do I even bring up the fact that I know she was planning this before I left? I know I'm going to want to mention this at some point, but will it set me back.
I was chatting with my D14 last night and she mentioned that my W had told her at one point that our problems were not fixable. How do you tell a 14 year old that.
My D14 sees that I'm trying, but she's telling me not to carry on with this if it's so painfull. How can my D really want me to give up. She sees how hard I'm trying to do the right things, and she respects me for that.
This crap really hurts.
You speak to your wife and tell her that you are documenting all this crap that she talks to your daughters about, your relationship problems are between you & your wife, she is causing them unnecessary pain & damage by giving them these kinds of details, tell her it's disrespectful to talk about the marriage issues with the kids when you're not there and she needs to stop.
robx, you are one of the few that disagree with the validate everything route. I agree I should validate what is true and except my part, but you have to be able to stand up for yourself. I'm not talking about being a d!ck, but be firm.
I have talked to her about saying these things to my D, and she has stopped. My D says the two of them are on good terms but they don't really talk anymore. This was from a conversation from a few months back.
Ever since I told her I was coming home, she's stop contacting me like she used to. She would send me emails or call every now and then. Now there's nothing. I call and speak to my D and chat on Facebook with her, but nothing between W and I.
Like I said before, I just can't wait to get home and see my girls. Relax a few days, and then start the conversation and go from there. Until I get home, there's too much still unclear.
I was fine when she still initiating contact, but now that she's not it's gotten tough.
my wife called and we talked for almost an hour. It was a very civil conversation.
She talked about all the work she had been doing on our mobile home than we plan to both live in while we're not at the house. She said it was boosting her self-esteem, and to be honest she sounded great. I also told her that I could see that and i was both surprised and proud of her for what she was doing at the trailer.
She mentioned a couple times about how the old W was starting to come back. Her and her cousin got into an argument, and my wife stood toe to toe. her cousin said that was great because that was more like my W.
She also said she had an aha moment the other day. My d is grounded and she kept calling her trying to get ungrounded. My d asked for a compromise, and my w said no. Her aha moment was that she wasn't going to compromise anymore.
The reality is that she didn't always compromise. She said that was her feeling and no one was going to change that. I told her I would never try to change her feeling. I did ask why it seemed she kept trying to tell me the old w was back. She said she wasn't trying to, but that she was just noticing. I told I had noticed as well and that I thought it was great.
She mentioned something about us having our talk, and how she thought there would be some arguing. I told her she would be pleasantly surprised at the fact that there will be no arguing. i told her i would get up and walk away before I let that happen. she was very pleased to hear that and she said she was glad.
I also told her i had scheduled a mountain climbing trip for myself in Sep. She asked why i scheduled it so late and i told her i didn't want to be gone during the summer. She said we wouldn't be doing anything anyway. told her i didn't want to be away from the kids again so soon and that they were my priority. She told me she was very glad too hear that.
she's going to have the close family member that I've been talking to during all this visiting the weekend I get home. She's going to have her come help paint the trailer. The family member is going through a D and has self-esteem problems herself. She'll now have someone with her when I get home, and I'll be at the house with the girls for the first week and a half when I get home.
it was a good conversation, by far the best we've had in quite awhile. I could definitely tell the difference in her tone that she is starting to come out of her funk. That can only be good for everyone.
She talked about me helping at the trailer when I got back, and also around the house. I get to spend quality time with my girls, and she'll get a much needed break. Since I've been gone for 6 months it's been all her. She was also thrilled to hear i have already talked to a C.
It was a good conversation that was mostly positive. It was friendly, which is a good first step. She can see the difference in me and I can see the difference in her. It's a long road ahead, but hopefully we can continue to keep things civil and friendly.
i just wanted to give everyone an update. i don't read anything into this, but positive is always better than negative. I kept my composure and stayed firm when I needed to be. i was also supportive when it was warranted.
any comments on this conversation?
Yeah, keep up the PMA.
Sounds almost too good to be true from your other posts.
Made me feel like I wish I were in your shoes at this point.
Now Im not saying to be defensive but keep your guard up and your situational awareness up in April. It just sounded too good to me. But then again my divorce has made me even more cynical than I was when I was married.
tbart, it's good you are seeing the difference between validate and doormat. It took me too long to learn the difference and I was confusing validate with submitting. It's not about submission at all.
The fact is you can't argue with feelings. It's impossible. If I tell you I feel you were never there for me, you can give me every single example of when you were - it doesn't matter because I still feel that way based on my perception (valid or not).
Validating doesn't mean you agree with her either. It's just you acknowledging you heard her position. 'I see you feel that way' in no way translates into - 'and I feel the same exact way'.
Don't fall into the trap of 'future talk'. Future talk is just that - words. Don't put any value on them. Believe me, I know first hand. Also, don't put any value on talk of separating, divorcing, past, future, what she wants to do, how long she's been thinking about it, etc...
Thank you guys. She made it very clear at that particular point that was her feeling and no one could change her feelings. At that point I knew where I was so I told her I would never try to do that.
It was nice to talk to her for so long, and her change in attitude and confidence is probably why we were able to do so.
Like I said I read nothing into this, but it is a much better step than in the recent past. I will keep my gaurd up, and think before I speak.
I'm trying not to, but I'm finding myself reading into this. Both good and bad, but I need to just take it for what it was.
Steps forward are always better than steps backwards.
i don't read anything into this, but positive is always better than negative. I kept my composure and stayed firm when I needed to be. i was also supportive when it was warranted.
You are reading into it. You can't help it. You're reading into it as a positive thing. Your BEST position, is to really not read anything into it at all...positive or negative.
What if a crystal ball appeared and you could see the separation was the only way you guys could actually work through your issues and get back together? What if you could see that it can only be this way?If you could see that it all works out in the future what would you be feeling right now?
All events are ultimately neutral. The meaning is assigned by us relative to whether they seemingly get us closer (good) to our goal or further (bad) from our goal.
The bottom line is this - How do you know if something is bringing you toward or away? My W and I had sex a month before she told me she wanted to D. You can imagine which direction I thought we were heading after the sex...lol. It wasn't the direction it really moved in.
My point is this - You can't assign good or bad to anything. You can in hindsight, but you can't in real time.
The conversation was an event. You did what you had to do as it unfolded in the moment. It's gone now...nothing but a memory. The only life it has is in your mind. Leave it in the past and keep your eyes right in front of you.
tbart you appear to be doing fine. Just keep dropping your expectations, assumptions and attempts to guess the future.
steady you're very correct in what you say. It's harder to do than it is to say.
I truthfully don't see it as a positive or negative step. It was what you said, just an event. It was a conversation unlike any we've had in a long time.
I'm trying not to read into this, but of course we all get caught in that.
Of course I want things to work out a certain way, but nothing has given me any indication either way. I'm just happy I'm doing the right things at this time. It shows how far I have come.
Steps forward are always better than steps backwards.
Sometimes forward is backward.
Sometimes backward is forward.
Sometimes they are exactly what they seem to be.
You never can know whether it is truly moving backward or forward.
I'm trying not to read into this, but of course we all get caught in that.
Yes. And when we see you get caught in that net, we reach in to pull you out.
Of course I want things to work out a certain way, but nothing has given me any indication either way.
Yes it has. You mentioned it earlier. You said you are thinking about the conversation as good and bad. Of course. She gave you mixed messages. You see her as strong and like it on the one hand, then on the same stroke you see her strength may be used against you in the sitch.
You see her talking to you for an hour as a good thing, but then a lot of the conversation wasn't really in the direction you wanted it to. So you focus on the good things..this gives you hope.
Then your mind, in all it's beautiful glory, starts to wander to the parts of the conversation we didn't like. So that takes away hope.
Then you remember you need to detach. So you start doing the mental override thing. It works a little bit. Then you wander back over to the conversation in your mind.
Wash, rinse, repeat.
I've been there. I know the cycle well. Don't worry about it. It's normal. Just keep working on balancing out and finding YOUR center.
I'm just happy I'm doing the right things at this time. It shows how far I have come.
Yes you have. Sometime, go back and read your posts when you first got here. Don't stop moving, don't stop working, don't get fooled into jumping off the path you are on.
Steady, you want to be my C.....lol
lmao tbart.... you'll be fine. It's a hard line to toe. I can see in hindsight where the most important things were with me and my sitch.
The WAS runs a script and so do the LBS.
Just keep bringing your mind back to the present. Just keep bringing it back. And bringing it back.
You'll see it wanders all the time. Just laugh and bring it back. After a while you'll probably stop because you think it's not working because it keeps wandering, and after all, you don't really feel better.
But you do feel better when you get out of your head and back into your body.
Just keep coming back...
tbart...PLEASE heed this advice... do NOT push M talk and R talk when you get home... i KNOW i ruined my chances by not following the DB methods. Read DR again before you get home and REMEMBER it, get right into the last resort technique if you feel its necessary... but do not push your wife away by taking small baby steps too far and getting over excited about little things and talking talking talking like i did. Just be the man that you know she wants you to be and nothing else. Im so serious, dont make my same mistakes.
meg I was wondering where you've been. I hope you're holding up, I've been thinking about you. I'll think about you when I'm there next week.
Meg I really do know not to do that. I will let here initiate that conversation. If you read my post a few days ago, she had asked about addressing the issues and I told her when we're ready.
we are a long ways away if ever from being anywhere near going down that path. I took nothing out of our conversation yesterday other than it was civil and friendly. We have many hurdles ahead.
As a matter of fact, if I went home today and she changed her mind, I wouldn't be ready. She has said too much to try and hurt me for me to allow myself to go through that. i want this to work out in the end, but I have things I need to sort through now.
i love her with all my heart, and I'm grateful she's becoming stronger and more positive. Grateful for her, because she doesn't sound so down and out of energy anymore. However, she's not someone i want to have a relationship with right now. I respect myself too much to let myself be hurt and fooled.
i will re-read DR again before i get home, and I'll continue down that path. Only time and dedication to myself can change my sitch.
Question for my DB friends. If you remember my W asked last week about addressing our issues and I told when were ready.
My question is if you guys think it would be a bad idea to tell her that I obviously don't want to talk about it as soon as I get home, but I don't want to wait forever.
I would like to have this conversation shortly after I get home, so I know what the issues are. I also would like to know so I can use it during my IC.
Suggestions please
I'm not seeing a problem with this, but I need to make sure what you guys think. I'm not telling her i want to do it right away, because don't. However, I want her to know I want to do it after I've acclamaited and settled in. I'm talking about a week or two.
Good question. I never pushed for any R or M talks. I might wait for her to bring it up. You'll have plenty to talk about during IC session without having the conversation.
What is it you need to hear? Why do you need to have the conversation. Also I wouldn't bring it up beforehand. If she brings it up too soon for you, just tell her that. Tell her you'd like to put the conversation off until you get settled back in.
m friend steady, always there for me. i don't want to rush the talk but i want t have it. I really want to hear what she has to say. I'm not initiating the talk, I'm just letting her know i still want to have it, but after I feel acclimated.
just caught up on your weekend tbart and checkin in on ya...
nothing to add right now...steady's given you good words.
you have the 'talk' when you know you're head's on right for the moment.
peace nice to see you stopping by again. My intention is to definitely have the talk when I'm ready. i just don't want to get home and have it linger. I want to spend some time with my daughters and then do it. I just want to let her know I don't want to do as soon as i get home, but i also don't want to wait much after that.
I was sitting on the computer trying to find the end of the internet here in Afghanistan, and I get a phone call over Skype. It was my W for the second day in a row. Not earth shattering by any means.
She was kind enough to tell me that she had to take my D4 back to the doctors. Third round of antibiotics for strep throat. My poor little princess.
We talked about that and some other little things. We discussed the talk. I told her my first priority was the girls, but after I get to spend what I feel is adequate time with them we could speak. She appreciated the fact that the girls were my priority and she agreed.
Another civil friendly conversation. I'm not reading into this I promise. It's just nice to be nice and get nice in return.
where are all my DB friends?
She came up with an excuse and managed to call me again. When I get home would it be wrong of me to ACCIDENTLY leave my DR book laying around or would that let her know my tactics?
I just think the first few chapters would be a great read for her.
Also, just to give you an idea of how her mind is working right now. She keeps calling me to tell me that the kids are sick. I told her that I hope she doesn't get sick. She said i will, I'm always taking care of the kids and I always get what they get.
Wow, that couldn't have been further from the truth. In reality I'm the one that ALWAYS takes time from work to take them to the doctors and stay home with D4 when she can't go to daycare. I didn't call her out on that one, but I will when we speak.
Just wanted to give you guys an idea of where her mind is at. This talk is going to be so much fun. She hasn't been mean at all, I've just been pickingup on her little comments and making a mental note.
Well tbart, some of us have to sleep and you are in a different time zone LOL.
Luckily I work night shift (midnight right now) but I really do not know what to tell you.
It sounds like she really either wants to hear something from you or wants to tell you something and is hesitating but again, DO NOT read into all this. May be nothing at all.
Most likely she is eager to guage your mood and mental state so she can prepare for you being face 2 face with her. That's just my gut feeling and wild guess.
Just be careful man. Don't get sucked into false hope. Pray for the best but prepare for the worst. Seriously.
She came up with an excuse and managed to call me again. When I get home would it be wrong of me to ACCIDENTLY leave my DR book laying around or would that let her know my tactics?
I just think the first few chapters would be a great read for her.
ABSOLUTELY NOT. Leave nothing 'laying' around the house. She'll know you left it and she'll resent you for it. If she asks you about what you're reading that would be a different story.
Just remember. If she reads DR she will look at it as you setting up a strategy to manipulate her into coming back. That's all she'll see in it so I would never show it to a spouse.
I catch myself still trying to do small things to control and manipulate in the fashion you just asked. It's control and it's an illusion. I find most of my control attempts end up backfiring on me.
bart, you are getting sucked into hope. Get out. It's hard and I know it's hard. But going in with hope will lead to expectations. Expectations will lead to you gauging every single word that is said to see if they meet your expectations.
Those words or sentences that don't reflect your expectation will cause an emotional reaction in you - even if you don't 'show' it, it will come out and she will pick up on it.
You will become deflated, disappointed, fearful, projecting negative, you'll become needy and clingy....
Let go. Let go of the event of your phone call. It meant nothing. Just a neutral event.
Push that into your brain. If you have no expectations, you will not react to anything that happens. If you don't react to anything that happens you will be in a position to accept fully whatever direction it moves in.
When you can embrace fully any course it takes, you will be detached from the outcome.
Want what you want, but do not be attached to a certain outcome.
Wow, that couldn't have been further from the truth. In reality I'm the one that ALWAYS takes time from work to take them to the doctors and stay home with D4 when she can't go to daycare. I didn't call her out on that one, but I will when we speak.
Just wanted to give you guys an idea of where her mind is at. This talk is going to be so much fun. She hasn't been mean at all, I've just been pickingup on her little comments and making a mental note.
I'm well versed in WAS speak. Get used to it. Call her on it if you want to, but don't make it a steady diet. If you call her on all of it, you'll be doing nothing all day but that. It will certainly push her away.
My W did EVERYTHING and I did nothing but sit on the couch...lol. I never sat on the couch except with her to watch a movie or play with my kids. And I was only there about 10% of the time..oh i could spend hours on the rewritten stuff.
I knew it wouldn't be a good idea to leave DR laying around, but it sure would be nice if she could read the first few chapters.
I'm not putting any hope into these conversations. I'm just telling you guys that she's come up with an excuse to call me for the past three days. Legitimate yes, but not something she would usually go out of her way to call me for.
She probably doesn't even realize she said that about watching the kids, but I certainly picked up on it.This is nothing other than she's communicating with me, where that hadn't been occuring previuosly.
You guys need to stay up 24/7 so I have you guys when I need you....lol. Seriously though I post something before I go to bed (daytime in the states), and I wake up hoping to find a reply. That's cool, I just get lonely.......kidding
There's always someone online to help.
Thank you MrBond, that's why I come here. Sometimes we impatiently need answers before we can get them. However, I've learned to wait until I hear back before i do or say something wrong.
You guys need to stay up 24/7 so I have you guys when I need you....lol. Seriously though I post something before I go to bed (daytime in the states), and I wake up hoping to find a reply. That's cool, I just get lonely.......kidding
I remember in the deep deep depths of my turmoil - I swear I hit the refresh button on this page a million times a day waiting for a response from someone.
About your W reading the DR book. I actually asked my H to read the book and he says he did..and look where that got me.
NO expectations..expect nothing and go with the flow, and stay in the present moment. It's hard to learn. It takes practice.
I find myself on this page all the time these days. I wouldn't have really left DR for the wife to find, but when I re-read it I just wish she could read the first few chapters, i would never ask her to read the book, because it's for me. I can't let her in on all my DB secrets.
I would like to say I have no expectations, but obviously there are some. I know once I get home I will be able to quickly read the reality of the sitch, and move from there.
My hopes aren't up, but they're also not down. I have to keep some hope until I know all hope is gone. Don't misunderstand me, I'm also very realistic. I'm just not feeling as down and out as I once was. I just can't let myself get like that again.
In 10 days I'll be reunited with the two most important girls in my life. That's why I have to remain strong. That will make me feel a million times better. When I'm with them I'll feel invincible. They're what my life has been all about.
I just signed up for a 5 day Sierra Nevada backpacking and rock climbing trip for when I get back. It's an all expense paid trip sponsored by Outward Bound for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans. i feel I deserve this, and have definitely earned it.
I know once I get home I will be able to quickly read the reality of the sitch, and move from there.
I think I am clear on what your intention about this. Just remember, the 'reality' of your sitch will sometimes change second by second, minute by minute, day by day. The sitch doesn't really change, your W will - like a roller coaster.
If you stay steady, the sitch will not change for you - work on yourself, have no expectations, stay in the moment, take care of yourself and the girls, stay out of your W's head, don't project, accept any outcome/consequence/change, etc...
I just signed up for a 5 day Sierra Nevada backpacking and rock climbing trip for when I get back. It's an all expense paid trip sponsored by Outward Bound for Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans. i feel I deserve this, and have definitely earned it.
Now this is awesome. When you go, leave all the rest of the 'stuff' at home as best you can.
You're absolutely correct once again steady. I just haven't been able to face it for real like I've mentioned before. I'm completely expecting the worse. Unfortunately I've had two bad dreams and one decent one about the sitch for the past 3 nights.
I have been back to my normal joking, funny, laughing self the past few days, and it's felt pretty good. It's a side of me people are to have back, it's been quite a long time.
I just hope I'm able to keep it going for the next 9 days. Thinking about going home since it'e so close makes for very long days.
That's all understandable tbart. The dreams will come and go. I remember all those mornings waking up and the first thing that came into my head was my sitch. I remember the sinking feeling every time I re-realized it was really happening - and not just a bad dream.
Keep focusing on you and being now and those joking, funny, laughing self days will be there. The more you can keep your head out of your sitch and more on your task at hand the better you will do. The least amount of control you try to exercise, the better your chances of everything working out positively.
Unfortunately this has already affected my career to a certain extent. All those days I was consumed with the sitch over here caused me to not be recognized for my performance.
It will now be more difficult for me to make my next rank. I never stopped doing my job, but my commander assumed differntly even though he had only seen and talked to me once.
Now I not only have my M to worry about, but now my career has been affected. To think I volunteered to go to Afghanistan, and all I got out of it was a tarnished career and a potential D.
My joking funny self has just become very angry. My 17 1/2 year marriage is damaged, and now my stellar 20 year career is in question. I'm considering retirement, and that's the part of my career that is in question. I don't like how the Air Force has treated during this time.
I brought this up to my W some time back and she said she didn't want me to retire. last time I checked she no longer has a say in this. I hope she's happy at what she's done. She's successfully ruined a family and a career.
I just want to get my a$$ back to the states. This knocks my uplifted attitude back down. The dreams certainly haven't helped me. I hate waking up and realizing this is all really happening.
I hate waking up and realizing this is all really happening.
I could have written this line.
couldnt we all have written that line... man is life crazy or what?! I gotta make a new profile tbart, my H has apparently been reading my blog... i will try to let u know its me somehow
i read about that meg. hope you find me so we can follow each others sitch. Sometimes i wish my W would find this site.
I have been doing good for about four days now. I'm starting to fall into a funk again, and it's to close to going home.
NOOO u dont want her to know ANYTHING about this.. trust me, i learned the hard way... dont ask her to read the book at all, its tempting, i had H read just a small portion... didnt resignate with him at ALL and now he knows my sources... I think you are doing good, you will have ups and downs... but its so important to bite your tongue when you get home and not start getting into M talks and getting all sad and sappy... its hard to stop it but you gotta do it
tbart,
You are going into a funk for a few reasons:
1. You are resisting what already is. Fighting against something that already exists.
2. You think you know how this is all going to play out. Intellectually you know you don't know, but inside you, you see the future like an unraveling ball of yarn - where your life just implodes and crushes you. Depression is our emotional reaction to how we interpret our lives will be affected by what is happening now.
I just heard a great quote in a movie:
"Sometimes in life, the hardest choice is knowing which bridge to cross and which bridge to burn"
I'm not sure if you know the 5 stages of death and dying by Kubler Ross. These are the stages people go through when they are experiencing a loss.
* Denial (this isn't happening to me!)
* Anger (why is this happening to me?)
* Bargaining (I promise I'll be a better person if...)
* Depression (I don't care anymore)
* Acceptance (I'm ready for whatever comes)
I cycled through them...sometimes rapidly. Sometimes slowly. I still move through them but at a much slower pace. Sitting in acceptance most of the time.
You will go through this. Feel fine for a few days, then a rough day or few days, sometimes an hour good an hour bad, etc...
It's normal. When they hit just be aware it's just a cycle and it will pass onto something else. I also know what it's like to be stuck on that merry go round and not be able to get off. It's a difficult position to be in.
This too shall pass.
once again Steady thank you. This merry go round really sucks. I d have good stretches and then bad stretches. It just sucks right now because I'm so close to going home yet it seems so far away. I have cycled through all these stages, and I keep cycling.
Also, my dream yesterday involved something bad happening to my D14, so that has me down. Anything can potentialy set off the cycle...I'm tired of it.
Back after 4 1/2 years of working of saving my marriage. But to no avail. We still live in the same house. She cheated on me before I went to Iraq in 2005 and I was sure she was still doing so since I got back in 2006. Three weeks ago I found out for sure that she was having an affair with the next door neighbor. Two days later she sent me an email stating she wanted us to meet with her lawyer to start divorce proceedings. Now she is hounding me to move out of the house. Need some advice.
M - 48
w - 44
M - 24 years
D - 19
D- 12
wow mud that wasn't a good story to hear at all. Sorry about that man.
Surviving like I said before I would never suggest this book to her, or even tell her have it. I just think the first few chapters say allot to the one wanting the D. However, where there mind is they wouldn't see or believe anything they read.
Before I knew there was anything wrong I emailed some stuff home regarding the deployed member and the spouse. It was describing the different feelings, and she replied with "are you kidding, this doesn't apply in todays age". I knew I was on my own at that point.
ok surviving is me...i didnt realize they would change my name so quickly...
but yes you are right, they wont see it... H def didnt see it.. i felt like i wanted to shake him like H look at this!! see, its ok you feel this way...its textbook! but they make excuses like how that doesnt apply to them
I think you will be ok... you know there will be ups and downs, so when they come, you know its normal... just keep it together better than i did...
I truly feel I will be ok as well. Like I've mentioned many times before, it's not being home yet that's made it so difficult.
I'm like you and my friend steady, in that I don't like the person my W has been through this. If she changed her mind as soon as I got home, I wouldn't be able to do it. I need to get over what has been said by her throughout this.
They get so wrapped up in how they feel they can't see anything else. My W has convinced herself that these things are truth, and there's absolutely no way to make them see it any other way. On top of that, I still don't know all of what's going through her mind. I get it in little bits and pieces.
I'm trying to hang in there until I'm able to get home. I wish we were all part of some support group where we could all hook up and talk.
Today my W is having tubes put in her ear. I wish I was home to be the one taking care of her. Right now she would say that I've never taken care of her when she was sick, there have been times, but I've been taking care of her our entire marriage. She's been back and forth to the hospital our entire marriage, deathly ill at one point, and I've always been there for her.
This is that merry go round my friend steady was talking about. i keep thinking what it will be like when I go home. I have no hope of anything spectacular. I'm actually terrified that she won't even care that I'm home. However, she's said to myself and others that she really wants me out of "This God Forsaken Country". She also wants me to be able to sleep in my bed and be in my house. I once told her my bed is the one where she's next to me, so it isn't my bed. That was some time ago.
She wants me to call her tonight to see how her procedure went. She's always asking about me as well. The mind will wander won't it?
...This is that merry go round my friend steady was talking about. i keep thinking what it will be like when I go home. I have no hope of anything spectacular. I'm actually terrified that she won't even care that I'm home. However, she's said to myself and others that she really wants me out of "This God Forsaken Country". She also wants me to be able to sleep in my bed and be in my house. I once told her my bed is the one where she's next to me, so it isn't my bed. That was some time ago.
She wants me to call her tonight to see how her procedure went. She's always asking about me as well. The mind will wander won't it?
You need to stop thinking stuff like that,
you only make your situation worse,
you're in a war zone but you are "terrified" about the fact she won't even care when you're home, do you see how this situation is affecting your perception of reality?
You are still to attached to be able to DB effectively, focus on letting go, stop caring so much, just make sure you're healthy and alive and focus on your kids - GET A GRIP!!!
I'm doing and saying all the right DB techniques to her, but I'm not always feeling them. It's difficult to not care so much until I get home. I feel it's not reality until I get there and face it. I don't expect anyone to understand that.
I do know that at this time I'm my own minds worst enemy. I know I'm in a war zone, but I've been in the military for 20 years and this is what I do. This M problem is absolutely new to me.
I have been focusing on my kids 100% until recently. It was all about them, and it still is, but I still wander over to thoughts of my W.
I will say robx you take the gloves off when you advise. I appreciate it though. I've actually been doing much better than I have been in months. It will be different for me once i return home. I'm not saying it will be easier, just different. Being with my kids will make me feel a ton better.
However, where there mind is they wouldn't see or believe anything they read.
This is so true. If you watch they will quickly reject any information or person who has information contrary to the direction they are heading.
My W once told me the Catholic Church has provisions for divorce in instances of mental illness. (I've been diagnosed Bi-Polar and am on meds).. I was like WTF?? You're not even Catholic.
Anything that seems to bolster their position is what they will cling to.
They can read the first few chapters of the DB book and the only thing they'll really say is true is if there is any line that says - "And some marriages can't be saved because there is just too much damage between them." or any version of this theme.
I'm actually terrified that she won't even care that I'm home.
tbart this is catastrophizing. You are thinking it's the end of the world or your life if she won't care that you're home.
Just take that as a given - that she won't care that you're home. Even better, take it as she will resent that you are home because now you'll be in her face reminding her constantly of where she is at.
So if you take this as a given, what happens to you? Do you disappear? Does your life come to a screeching halt?
How about trying this on for size:
It would hurt if she didn't care I was home. I would feel some pain and sorrow. I will feel rejected and that would suck. I can survive it and my life will be fine. I can feel the pain without having to cause myself to suffer.
steady that was pretty funny. It's pretty sad how far gone their grip on what they think is reality is gone. It's scary, and that's what makes DB so difficult and takes so much time.
I have no idea what type of things she's going to come up with when we speak, or if anything I say will make a difference. More than likely what I say will not register and only some of what I do.
That's why I know I have a long painful journey ahead.
It would hurt if she didn't care I was home. I would feel some pain and sorrow. I will feel rejected and that would suck. I can survive it and my life will be fine. I can feel the pain without having to cause myself to suffer.
Tbart,
I know this feeling all to well. There are days I come home from work and I sit in the car just dreading walking into the house as I know that when I do it will be like walking into a tomb.
But I am slowly getting over it and getting on with my life, and now that some warmer weather is coming it, Im hoping it will be easier.
Keep taking care of yourself and try to smooth out the rollercoaster ride and the rest should start falling into place.
if it really comes down to that for me wired, I just hope I'll be able to stomach it.
i sort of wen't through it for a time when i was home for two weeks in September. During those two weeks she acted like I wasn't even there. This was before i even knew what she was thinking. Those were until now the two most difficult weeks of my life.
Now I'll be going home and we won't even be in the same house together. Not seeing her ignore me every day, should be easier than her ignoring me while we're not together.
I really don't know what it's going to be like to be honest. Everything is a bunch of whats and wonders for me right now. i left for Afghanistan and i thought she cared, now I return and I know she doesn't care.
You don't know if or how much she cares tbart. Mindreading.
I know how it feels to feel like a leper in your own house. My W's parents were living with us temporarily while this was going on and the three of them would sit in the front room watching TV and drinking wine every night.
And then there was me...lol.
It sucked.
tbart, you need to be in the mindset of leaving her alone when you get back. You guys will be living separately so use that as an opportunity to stay away from her. With you not constantly in her face to focus on, she'll have to deal her emotions and thoughts and not just her anger at you.
You're absolutely correct that I don't know how she will feel. I can only speculate at this time, and that's what I'm doing.
I will leave her alone when I get home. Obviously, living apart will make it allot easier.
I'm expecting all the worse, and yes life will go no matter what happens.
Hey my friends, I'm feeling pretty good about me. Today we had to do an official physical fitness test before i leave, and I went from a 36 inch waist to a 32 inch waist since I've been here. Busted out 89 push ups in a minute and I'm getting ready to blaze through my mile and half run. feeling pretty good abot me.
Called to talk to my D14 today. She somehow how brought up the way W is acting different. She said W is all about being a strong person because she thinks she used to be weak. Even my D14 said W has always been very strong, which is true.
D14 said that W is starting to use it on her. last time my D14 got grounded my W said she wasn't going to compromise because she always has compromised, and once she makes a decision now that's going to be it. We both believe W is trying way too hard.
I explained to my D14 that it's just the way she's feeling and we have to accept it. I also told her that you need some compromise for a successful relationship. No matter if it's with a friend, mother, father, brother, sister, whoever. The truth is my W and I have always compromised with one another. However, she feels that she always compromised. Wha can you do? Nothing.
Anyway on a good note, I still feel pretty good about me, and I'll be with my kids in a week. I continue to pray for strenghth and patience in this.
good job on your PT test! thats awesome! keep it up... you sound like today is decent day and thats good.
Thanks surviving for the congrats. Just got my first excellent score ever. I am feeling pretty good today despite the circumstances.
We all know I can't control what's going on, but I can controll that there's two beautiful girls that can't wait to see their dad and that their dad can't wait to see.
the situation will work itself out one way or the other. All I can control is me and how i make it through this.
89 push ups?!? Wow!
I can sqeeze out maybe 8 if I try really hard LOL.
On a side note, my friend calls me this AM and tells me she is pregnant. Asked her how far along she was and she said 11 months LOL. Even then I didn't get the fact that it was April 1st.
I guess there is a reason they us D.A.M. LOL.
I was pretty impressed with the amount of push ups myself, but I'm more impressed with someone being 11 months pregnant.
D14 said that W is starting to use it on her. last time my D14 got grounded my W said she wasn't going to compromise because she always has compromised, and once she makes a decision now that's going to be it. We both believe W is trying way too hard.
One thing I've learned is when people change because they see something that is dysfunctional for them, they will swing way over the other way. Like a pendulum swinging.
They will swing back and forth in order to find the center point. So if someone has been a people pleaser they will swing way over and become very selfish and self-centered. When they see that's not working, they will swing the other way.
Sometimes those swings can happen in days, months or even years. It depends on the context of the change.
She has always been a people pleaser, and now she's going the other way.
I liked that she was going to IC, but this I believe is something she talked her C into. She's really going hard with this one. That is why she brought up to me "this is the old W coming back" in our conversation last weekend.
Poor thing, she doesn't even realize that this has never been her. This is something she's talked herself into thinking she needs to be. My D has mentioned that W has always been strong and more the mean one between the two of us. Unfortunately, that's absolutely true.
She's trying to hard to be something she's not or has never been. it's really sad to see our W be so lost and confused.
My XW has also always been people friendly and a people pleaser. In her case she still is.
The only person she has swung away from in that regard is me sadly.
I feel you on that one g450. I haven't been there yet to see interact with others, but she's definitely swung that way with me and her own children.
When she first came to this decision she claimed it was all about the children. The reality of it is that it's not about the children. If it was about the children I assure she wouldn't be doing this. This is 100% about her, and her only.
I have a question that I really don't understand.
How can someone just starting being so mean and hateful. My W has been talking to all her old friends from before we were married. She's been talking, texting, and Facebooking comments to these people. It's almost like she's in high school again.
Her H is in Afghanistan and she can't call, email or post anything on Facebook to me. How can she just reject me like this. How do they lose there mind like this?
I'm finding myself rejected and neglected, like most of us do at this point. I don't want to let this bother me like it is, but I can't help it. I haven't hurt this woman to cause this, but in her mind I've done something.
There's one person in particular to that she's talking to that I want to ask her about. The person that she sen't the post card to a few weeks back. I still wonder what her intentions are with this. I really want to question her about this relationship. Can I?
I wouldnt question it yet... you dont have anything to back you up that its an inappropriate relationship, so you have to wait... you will just seem nosey and controlling if you question it now. TRUST ME! lol Just keep an eye on it but do not say anything...
I like where you said a few post back: Poor thing, she doesn't even realize that this has never been her. This is something she's talked herself into thinking she needs to be.... I feel you on this one, I feel the same way about H and the person he feels he needs to be now to find his "happiness".
Read DR again before you go home, and as difficult as things will get when you get home, remember it! I was the worst DBer ever! And it certainly did nothing for me but help my H feel more and more reassured that he was making the right decision to divorce.
Take comfort in knowing that the anxiety you will feel when you get home is much different than the anxiety over the unknown right now, but it wont be a better kind of anxiety necessarily. Stay strong... stay smart... stay focused... wait, whats the Air Force thing: Fit, Focused, and Fighting for what's right... Do that! lol
Question for anyone?
How do you handle your w having pa with the next door neighbor and making no effort to hide it from you. She is over there everyday for one reason or another. Even the kids wonder why she is always over there. I guess she isn't trying to hide it to rub salt in the wound. And he is just as bad. Makes me want to go over there and kick his a**. Should I say something to either one or just swallow my pride and go on like nothing is happening?
mudpuppy - No you don't swallow your pride. You out her. You go to the neighbor and you confront him. First make sure you have evidence to back it up.
Even without any evidence I would go over and confront the neighbor. I'd ask him to clarify why my W is coming over his house on a daily basis.
Obviously if your W is having a PA with your neighbor and making no efforts to hide if from you, then she has completely lost respect for you.
Throw her out of the house. Show her you won't stand to be disrespected that way.
At least you'll hold onto your dignity and self respect.
Sorry, but another question.
Paperwork for D has been started. She wants me to get an apartment/house now and get out before anything is final. Should I ever consider doing this. Or just tell her that this is my house too and I am staying until the end.
M 48
W 44
M 24 years
D 19
D 12
I have a question that I really don't understand.
How can someone just starting being so mean and hateful. My W has been talking to all her old friends from before we were married. She's been talking, texting, and Facebooking comments to these people. It's almost like she's in high school again.
My W did the same thing. It's like she reverted and is reaching back to capture something from her youth. That's why I think there's an MLC in my sitch also.
Her H is in Afghanistan and she can't call, email or post anything on Facebook to me. How can she just reject me like this. How do they lose there mind like this?
I'm not sure there's an answer to why. I would guess they feel lost and are trying to find some semblance of balance.
I'm finding myself rejected and neglected, like most of us do at this point. I don't want to let this bother me like it is, but I can't help it. I haven't hurt this woman to cause this, but in her mind I've done something.
You better take another look at this - I haven't hurt this woman to cause this...
Obviously in her mind you have done something. I'm sure she's done things to you to help with the deterioration of the marriage. You can't do anything about her taking responsibility for her share, but you can take responsibility for your share and fix that.
There's one person in particular to that she's talking to that I want to ask her about. The person that she sen't the post card to a few weeks back. I still wonder what her intentions are with this. I really want to question her about this relationship. Can I?
Don't confront unless you have some evidence of inappropriate behavior which you have decided on a boundary with. Also, she will just lie to you if her intentions are less than honorable, so confronting her without any evidence will really do nothing for you.
Sorry, but another question.
Paperwork for D has been started. She wants me to get an apartment/house now and get out before anything is final. Should I ever consider doing this. Or just tell her that this is my house too and I am staying until the end.
Talk to a lawyer. My lawyer advised me to stay in the house until there was a written agreement in place. That's what I did. Often when you move out they can get you for abandonment and end up causing all kinds of grief for you.
My W would continually tell me to leave. I would just look at her and say, "This is my house and these are my children too. If you want out, then you leave."
I'd seek legal counsel on this before I made any move. Also, I would tell her to leave because she's the one that is wanting a D.
I'm glad some of you are still awake to talk me off the ledge.
i just got done talking to a friend that's over here with me, and he also suggested I ask nothing. If I want to show a different side of me then I need to not ask. The truth is she's talking to allot of people, both male and female. It just seems like she's sparking up all her old friendships since I've been gone.
For the most part she's abandoned some of our co-friends and she just communicates with her friends. She's abandoned our co=friends that she knows have shown me support. These friends are all 2000 miles away, so there's nothing to it other than phone conversations.
It's just me playing mind games with myself again. Anything out of the ordinary makes me want to question it. However, that's what she would expect me to do, so I probably shouldn't.
She's trying really hard to do and be something she either has never been or hasn't done for 17 years. This is sort of sad to watch how lost this woman is. She thinks she's found herself, but she's really trying to hard to be something else.
Exactly! To be honest... you kind of have to let her feel that out for a little while... she will never be able to come out of her fog until she can explore that a little bit... you could be in a really good position right now to start doing 180's and not questioning her and her conversations with other people.. and detaching in a way to seem as though you have had an awakening and you will be fine with or without her.. just focus on your children, on yourself, and let her figure herself out. No pressure from you... thats the only thing that will get her to ever come back to you and your M
I've been doing tons of 180's since I've been going through this. I've had no choice but to do so. She's so deep into her fog i doubt she would even notice when i don't do something, but she certainly would notice if i did. That's the reason not saying anything about this would be the smart way to go for me.
SV3 you know as well as i do how hard is to detach from someone you haven't seen. I'm still physically attached, because know what I want. You know what's expected after returning from a long deployment. I know that won't be happening.
There's obviously some emotional attachment as well, but I find that shrinking by the day. I'm attached to the person I left, but not the person that's there right now. i desire what i can't have, and that's her the way she was and what i thought I would be coming home to.
I've been doing tons of 180's since I've been going through this. I've had no choice but to do so. She's so deep into her fog i doubt she would even notice when i don't do something, but she certainly would notice if i did. That's the reason not saying anything about this would be the smart way to go for me.
SV3 you know as well as i do how hard it is to detach from someone you haven't seen. I'm still physically attached, because I know what I want. You know what's expected after returning from a long deployment. I know that won't be happening.
There's obviously some emotional attachment as well, but I find that shrinking by the day. I'm attached to the person I left, but not the person that's there right now. I desire what I can't have, and that's her the way she was and what/who I thought I would be coming home to.
Steady - Thanks for the advice. As far as proof of a PA I do have that. As for confronting the neighbor I will soon. I am afraid if I do so now I will do something I will regret because my anger level is so high. I will take your advice and stay in the house until its over and tell her she can leave if she wants to.
mud you're a better man than me, because I'd have already been over there and it wouldn't be pretty. I know from personal experience that it would only make it worse.
As hard as it might be you need to handle it peacefully and calmly. Anything other than that will only make it worse for you and your kids.
I'm not sure what you want for your marriage, but if you approach this wrong all will be doomed. It will only push them further away, trust me on this one I know.
Collect yourself, and let the anger die down. You need to approach this, you absolutely can't let this go on. However, please approach this the way I described.
tbart01 - I am by no means a better man than you. I want to do exactly what you did. But I was a police officer for 15 years and I saw first hand what happens when you do something like that. If I did what I wanted I would lose my job and I can't do that with everything else going on.
As for what I want for my marriage I am not sure anymore. Ask me that a month ago and I would have said I would do anything to save it. But now I don't know. This isn't the first time she has done this. I have proof of one other time 6 years ago for sure and suspect a couple of others in between the first one and this latest one.
Call me crazy or stupid but deep down I think I want thigs to work out so we can salvage what was once a great marriage.
mud, you need to stop putting yourself through this. You can't let yourself be disrespected like that.
You need to stand up for yourself and be strong. If this hasn't been the first time this has happened, then how could you ever trust her? It probably won't be the last time, but of course i don't know that for sure.
Don't be an enabler to her behavior. Put a stop to it at least for yourself.
i don't really want to ask my W about what's going on, but i want to tell her I like the little exchange between her and him. Just to let her know that I know. it's on Facebook, and i didn't have to go looking for it. The person that started the post is a friend of both of ours.
it's just bugging me right now.
tbart01 - i know you are right, but it is easier said than done. And I know I could never trust her again after all this has happened. And you are right about it probably happening again. Once a cheat always a cheat. If she cheated on me with him, she will end up cheating on him with someone else.
I know I need to put myself out of my misery and walk away, but damn it is harder that I ever thought it would be. Too many what ifs floating around in my thoughts.
So I guess I should just suck it up, move on and don't look back.
It's her loss if I have to say so myself.
dont do it tbart.. dont do it... its tempting, Lord knows that I know how tempting it is! But dont do it... having her think that you dont even know she is typing that person is better than you saying something about it.. you just have to let go of that temptation... in fact, I would highly recommend that you just stop looking at her FB all together for awhile, i know i said keep an eye on it before, and you can if you want to and you prob will cause its hard to stop, but if its the only way that you can get yourself to not have the urge to say something about it then do it... it will drive you crazy if you keep looking and keep thinking about it, cause thats exactly what i did and it just reaffirmed for my H that I was a snoop and I didnt trust him no matter how small or insignificant the FB postings actually were... it was clear I was snooping, let me be your example... just stop getting on FB all together... it is quite possibly the root of all evil
This is what was put on Facebook that set me off:
Her friend put on facebook,
I kissed a BANANA SLUG~~~~, and I liked it!! For those who have, I hope it brings back great memories!
W responded to her: Are you serious? I kissed guy i despise years ago...does that count? Or is it not in the same league?
Friend i despise responded: OH HELL NO!!! WELL???? LOL
I replied with; nice, very nice indeed
Innocent exchange, or am I reading too much into my wifes new world?
Also, is it normal for a WAS to spark up old friendships? I just want to make sure I'm not dealing with a little bit of MLC. I don't think she's really displayed anything to support an MLC except for old friendships.
One of her complaints was that she had to give up friends because of me. Well, she chose to marry a military man and moved right away. She wanted that, and said she would always go where I went.
When we first got married she would spend hours talking on the phone. I complained at times, but never told her to stop.
well...don't know if i should butt in here...
but if you want an AWAW's viewpoint: here goes.
Yes it is normal for W to seek out old friendships or new ones if she's felt kept away from that for years. This does not necessarily mean that there is any wrongdoing.
I'm not saying this is how your W was, but in my initial fog of marriage and my doormat stage I was kept away from friends for a long time. I now see my best girlfriend for lunch and we make it a regular thing when possible. And I realize that it is CRUCIAL to my well-being to do that.
I guess I'm just trying to say...don't assume the worst here. And if you approach her about the Facebook thing...it won't be good.
Thank you peace, and you're always welcome to butt in on my thread. As a matter of fact I've been wondering where you have been. I have absolutely no problem with her talking to old friends. I never asked her to stop doing it in the first place. It's something she did on her own.
I maintained my composure and said nothing about the post. I know it won't do anything but make me look bad. For me to say something would be childish. One thing I've learned through all of this is to maintain my cool.
I don't want to be a snoop, and that wasn't what i was trying to do. I just stumbled across it by accident. I agree that Facebook is evil, but I can't get rid of it. To many family and friends communicate with me through it.
I'm proud that i posted here and didn't crack. I don't want to make stupid mistakes anymore.
tbart I posted this in reply to you on my thread. I thought it would be better here on yours:
Steady I'm glad to see that you're still human, and make mistakes. I agree with your previous post about wanting a miracle rather than needing one. that's a good place to be, but it doesn't make wanting it any easier does it?
lol..of course I make mistakes. Plenty of them too. It actually does make the wanting easier. It actually makes it go away.
The thing that makes the wanting hard is if there is a 'needing' attached to it. Imagine you want a new car, but you don't need one. When you think about that car it isn't hard at all to want it but knowing you don't have it. It has no impact on you at all - because you want it, you don't need it, so if you get it or not doesn't really make much of a difference.
That's the difference between owning your wants and not needing it to work out any particular way, and wanting with the flavor of needing.
i used to think i needed my M to be fixed, but I know I don't. However, i desperately want it to be fixed. Someone other than me would have to make some serious changes for that to happen.
I'll call you out on this and say you aren't at that point yet. If you really felt that way you wouldn't write - 'desperately' in the next sentence.
Desperate implies needing, a desperate person is like a person dying of dehydration desperately needing some water. The desperation is the neediness you need to get rid of. That's a component of detaching.
Think about this question:
If you could see the future, and it shows you:
1. You and your W going through this whole process that you are in, and getting back together after you both have grown and improved. You then have a relationship beyond your wildest dreams.
2. You and your W go through this whole process and end up not getting back together. You've changed but your W hasn't. Over some time you meet a woman who turns out to be a much better match for you because you have improved and therefore attracted a more healthy woman. It ends up being a relationship beyond your wildest dreams.
Knowing either one of these as your future, how would you be acting right now? Would you be desperate? Would you be detached knowing that you are destined to be happier than you ever were?
Think about that. Think some more. Imagine it. Close your eyes and see them both. Make it as real as you can in your mind - see, taste, touch, smell. Take your time.
Then come back and answer it.
She's abandoned our co=friends that she knows have shown me support.
This is typical. They build themselves a team of people and information which will support their position. Anything which presents something counter to what they want is rejected and ejected.
That's why I said she would see the DR book as a reason to leave you. She will find the parts in the book that she can twist to support her position, and she won't even see the other parts.
When I say she won't be able to see it, I mean literally see it. She would read the words but they wouldn't register in her mind.
They rationalize all kinds of things.
tbart, things like this will make you wonder. It will make you feel. You will see her treating everyone else better than she is treating you.
You have to let it hit you and deflect off. If that can't be then absorb it and dump it here.
The less reaction you show her to what she is doing (short of standing up to disrespectful or inappropriate behavior) the better off you are going to be.
Best case - she sees a strong man who is already moving forward. He is not desperate to have her in any way shape of form. He has his life and friends and is building himself a very good life. He is positive about his future and confident his life will be awesome.
He wants his M to work out, but does not need it to. He wants to be with his W, but he doesn't need to. He shows no reaction to her talking to other people, going out with friends, changing her clothing or her going out habits (unless they impact the family in a negative way).
I don't want to be a snoop, and that wasn't what i was trying to do. I just stumbled across it by accident.
Do you really want us to believe this? You said you don't want to be a snoop, not you aren't a snoop. So you snoop. We all did or still do. I gave it up. I don't care what she is doing. It's her life and her path. I have my own to worry about.
By accident? lol.
No response necessary on this tbart. Only you know your intention. If it's what you wrote then good, my mistake. If not, look at it and own it.
Own what's yours. Own it all.
steady in my mind i feel that i don't need my W, but my heart will tell me differently at times. I wen't back to the post and deleted the response I put, so she doesn't even know that i know.
In regards to you're question. I've given thought to that exact question allot lately. I would be happy with either outcome. however, it would naturally take me some time to fathom the possibility of someone else for me.
I know that I was a good person before this, and I know that I'm an even better person now. If my W decides to skip this train, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind or heart that someone else will benefit.
I'm not lost right now, confused yes, but not lost. My W on the other hand is lost. Obviously not in her mind, but she really is. I know who am, and I have benefited greatly from this.
had i not come here and had to deal with this, it may have not gone down like this.
We could have gone on the way we were, or we could have still ended up down the D road, but I had i been there i may have handled it differently.
I truly believe I would have done more of the wrong things and may have possibly never found this web site.
I honestly believe there's a reason it happened when it did and how it did. Someone upstairs has always looked out for me, and I know that will continue.
I've held it together pretty well for being where I'm at, going through what I have. I really have improved my outlook on things and the way I handle them.
My best friend told me tonight that the difference in me is night and day from how I was 1 year ago today. He said he really looks up to me and respects me.
He went through a D and made all the wrong moves. He has commended me for my attitude and my composure, and said he's learning allot from me. I haven't said one bad thing about my W to him or anyone else, but she has about me. I can hold my head up high, because i know I'm handling myself correctly.
My sitch may really suck, but I have made a positive impact on so many people through this. I've had to talk to all my friends over here about this, and I've touched allot of people with what I'm going through and how I'm handling it.
Being in Afghanistan isn't easy, and it's no easier having to deal with M problems. i never really knew just how strong I could be until all of this. The fact that I've remained strong for my kids speaks volumes as well.
I hope the rest of my journey goes well. I know there will be rocky roads ahead, but i know I'll make through to the other side.
Sorry, i didn't mean to make it all sound corny, but i trully believe these things.
I feel where you're coming from tbart. I had thought about the fact you aren't present with her going through this. I think in a way it makes it harder for you to mess up and really be clingy and needy. Oftentimes it's the initial behavior that causes a lot of damage which the WAS really focuses on.
So in that sense I think it was good you were away for the time you have been.
What you said wasn't corny at all. It's a good perspective to have.
Just keep focusing on you and put one foot in front of the other. No matter which way things go, you're a better person for it.
In regards to you're question. I've given thought to that exact question allot lately. I would be happy with either outcome. however, it would naturally take me some time to fathom the possibility of someone else for me.
I didn't ask you if you would be happy. I just assumed you would be happy at either outcome.
What I did ask is how would it change how you are acting/thinking/feeling
right now? Would you be desperate? Would you be detached knowing that you are destined to be happier than you ever were?
It's a very different question.
she filed for legal S today. How do I take this.
After she told me abot filing for legal S, she continued to have one of thebetter talks we've had. She claimed she's been telling me for a long time that she wasn't happy. I told her she may have, but not as clearly as I neede to hear it.
She said I've made changes ion the past to apease her and then I would revert back. i validated this, and told her she had no reason to believe my changes were real. I told her that only time will tell.
I let her know thatthis isn't what i want, but she needs to do what she needs to do. I told her I still value our M and will continue to fight. I told her I will move forward, not move on, and she understood the difference.
I told her that I no longer neede us, but I still wanted us. At one point she started top argue, and I told her i refused to argue, and would get off the phone if that's what she wanted to do. She calmed down and we had a good talk.
I told her that when I returned home to not be afraid to lean on me or ask for help on anything. She said she absolutely would do that, because she has no one else.
By the end of the conversation she said that we'll see how the separation goes and we'll see what happens. She obviously needs to see that the new me is for real. She said it will be nice to see me again and that she wanted to make me dinner when I got home.
It was a difficult conversation, but a good one. I was hoping the S could wait until I got home or that we wouldn't even need to go the legal S route. This gives her peace and that's fine with me i guess. She said we would talk about all the specifics when i get home, and come up with mutual decisions.
Sounds like you handled it just fine. Don't worry about what seems to be a rushing on her part. When my W told me she wanted a D she had an appraiser at the house the next week...imagine how messed up that felt. Probably the same as how you are feeling after this news.
So nothing's changed. Just a move to make a piece of paper. It doesn't change anything at all. It only appears to be a change. I think what you wrote was textbook on how you should act (notice I didn't say react). Kudos on not arguing and drawing the boundary that you would get off the phone instead of argue.
tbart, these situations are always 'lets see what happens'. It really can't be any other way.
You did great. Be proud of yourself. Now don't let your mind start zooming around looking for reasons behind her wanting a legal S. It is what it is. Accept it and make your decisions inside of that reality.
Steady you answered the question I was going to ask. I was wondering if the fact that she wanted a legal S changes anything. I knew we were going to be S when we got home, just not legaly.
She said she told me now because she didn't want me to be surprised once I returned. I personally think this should have waited. I only a week left, and now I have to have this on my mind.
She was much nicer than she's been, and I don't understand. Remember before she was going to drop me off and leave, now she wants to make me dinner. She also said that we'll see how things go with the separation. That cracked a window didn't it?
I'm just not understanding why a legal S is necessary. Couldn't we just have done a S?
You're correct, I didn't react I acted. I know I said all the right things, and I told her i didn't want to say anything that would push her away. She said that I wasn't.
She told me I said and did all the things to push her away months ago. I agreed with her, but told her that was before I knew there was anything wrong, and that it was before I was educated.
This new information really isn't any different than before, but it just seems more official. I'm trying not to take this hard, but you know I am. I can't help but to feel it's over now.
I just keep hearing that it will be nice to see you, and that she want's to make me dinner. She asked me what I wanted her to make, and I said anything would be fine.
She said we will get together and make joint decisions. She said we're both adults and we can work things out. I told her that she knows how I feel about her, and I don't need to tell her.
you did AWESOME tbart!!! you get this! dont even worry about the legal S... just keep on your same path. It is just a piece of paper, it isnt over til its over and even then... it may not be over. I like your line, you will move forward, not move on. I am going to adopt that for myself
This just made it seem harder to reconcile. I may be looking too much into the piece of paper. Allot of good things came out of the conversation except for the S
I'm proud of myself for handling things the way that I did. I realize now what I need to do, and I'm glad that I know I can do it.
I truly hope this doesn't mean that all my efforts have been for nothing. Somehow she's making all these decisions before I even get home, or before we get the chance to discuss anything.
I'm not really sure how to take this new information, or if I should even be sweating it.
I told her that for the first time in my life, I truly like the person that I am. I know I have come a long way. I just hope I can keep moving in the right direction.
I know my words can't change the way she feels, but I hope my actions and positive change will show her.
I don't want this to change what I've been doing, or cause me to give up hope. I don't know that the door is completely closed, nor does she.
She finally commented on my weight loss. Before she told me the pictures I posted on Facebook looked wierd. Now she said I look really thin, almost to thin. She's acknowleging me in a different way than she has been.
I still hear her telling me it's going to be nice to see me. her tone has changed about just dropping me off and leaving. Now she want's to make me dinner my first night back. Maybe she feels some kind of peace now that she's filed, and that she see's I'm not fighting her like she thought I would. maybe I have no idea why anything is the way it is.
Only time will tell what exactly is going to happen.
when my friends wake up, give me a shout.
I want to thank all you guys and DR. I have a long road ahead and I know it, but baby steps have already been made.
My W and I spoke again this morning, and she had allot of honest things to say to me. It appears that last night when we got off the phone she thought all night about how I acted and didn't react to her news. She said she was very surprised and happy about it. I passed my first test.
Since I acted on her words she felt more comfortable talking to me. She spoke to me for an hour about R stuff. She is absolutely looking forward to seeing me, but is still sceptical. I validated her once again, but made it clear to her that this is the new me. i told her she has no reason to believe it just because i said it.
She really wants to make me dinner my first night, and she looks forward to us being able to talk. She said that yesterday was very nice because she didn't think she could talk to me like that. I told her that I was pretty confident that the old defensive, over reacting me was gone.
When the topic of legal S came up and why she was doing it, she said she was giving me a year. She said I had time to show her whether or not my changes were permanent. She actually brought up stuff about the future.
Just by listening to you guys and what I've learned from the book, I may have had a positive impact on our future. Of course only the future will tell.
I do know it's way to early to get too positive, but this is a great step in the right direction. I was put to my very first test, and I passed it.
i guess you guys are correct in saying that it's only a piece of paper. She still plans on MC in our future as well. She really liked the new way we were communicating and listening to one another. I've known for months I could do it, but she finally let her guard down a little.
tbart, I want you to notice something before I address any of the stuff you've written:
In the first post in this series, after you spoke to her and she reiterated the legal S. You were shaken and the rug was pulled from underneath you.
Your last post you have a totally different and more hopeful outlook.
It's your roller coaster based on what she is saying and doing.
Don't get me wrong, you are handling things exactly the way you need to handle them and I'm really proud of you. You're nailing it. Just don't get cocky and keep doing what you're doing. Remember, as you can see, things can switch on a dime.
Back to my original subject. This is what I mean when I say you have no idea where things are going. After the first conv you thought things were going south, as it 'appeared' to be. Your demeanor went south with it. Then she thought a lot about what you said and how you acted, talked to you again, and some of what she said (MC, postive indicators, happy about how you guys can talk, etc..) has shown the sitch 'appears' to be heading north.
This sitch will go all over the place. You are doing fantastic. When your heart drops or your stomach fills with that nauseous feeling do not react, act, then come here and dump. It's what you are doing, so keep doing it.
I'm not one to say how things look anymore when it comes to a sitch. But I will tell you I think you are doing a great job. Time will tell where it ends up. Don't worry about the outcome, just keep your eye on the present now.
Steady, thank you. I did take the news really hard, and all of you said it was just a piece of paper. i always think the worst right off the bat. you are absolutely correct when you tell me I have no idea where things are going. I see that finally, and that's why I now say one day at a time.
I know things will be up and down, but this is the most positive outlook I've been able to have in months.
I'm proud of myself because I'm sticking to what I've learned for the first time. The advice I've been given from you guys is already paying off.
I'm not trying to get cocky, but I'm proud of myself. i was put to the test twice in two days and I passed it. i would not have passed it a few months back.
I'm not saying things are instantly repaired, but a baby step has been made in the right direction. Until now everything was either a backwards step or status quo.
I have been biting my tongue and coming to you guys before i react. If I had called her out on the Facebook post i would have set everything back. You guys talked me off the ledge, I listened, and here i am today. if I hadn't listened, no baby step.
I have a question that I really don't understand.
How can someone just starting being so mean and hateful. My W has been talking to all her old friends from before we were married. She's been talking, texting, and Facebooking comments to these people. It's almost like she's in high school again.
Her H is in Afghanistan and she can't call, email or post anything on Facebook to me. How can she just reject me like this. How do they lose there mind like this?
I'm finding myself rejected and neglected, like most of us do at this point. I don't want to let this bother me like it is, but I can't help it. I haven't hurt this woman to cause this, but in her mind I've done something.
There's one person in particular to that she's talking to that I want to ask her about. The person that she sen't the post card to a few weeks back. I still wonder what her intentions are with this. I really want to question her about this relationship. Can I?
My ex wife did the same exact crap to me. And she kicked me off her facebook page as well. Hell, she even kicked her own son off her facebook so he could not see what she was up to I guess.
I would not beat my brain up about it. Sometimes they do this just to be vindictive and to pull your chain.
I have been divorced now for two months and she still wants to play games like this.
Well looks like Im late to the party.
Good news indeed. Take that year she is giving you and show her what she wants to see but also BE that guy she wants to see for the rest of your life. Do it for yourself, not just for her.
I only wish my XW gave me a chance like that. My own life has swung all the way to the bitter side of things but it is starting to come back to the sweeter end slowly but surly.
Your ship out date is coming up soon. Ill say a prayer for you.
Sorry to hear that g450. I'm not out of the woods by a long shot, but there's at least a cracked door.
I feel real good about me, and those that know me well have noticed the changes, and they like it. I hope they're permanent changes, but only time will tell. I feel they're permanent, and I most definitely made them for me.
I used to be panicked about going home, but I'm not anymore. yes I'm still nervous about what the future may hold, but I know that I'll be fine either way.
I so badly want to see my daughters and that's what matters. Whatever happens between my W and I will take care of itself. In the end I will either be thankful we're back together, or I'll feel better about me for the person I've become.
tbart, how about you take that year and see if you want to stay with her...
I'm sure that will be something I'll be doing while she's doing whatever it is she's doing.
After time I'm sure I'll be realizing allot of things about myself and her. Part of that will be whether or not I want to be with the person she is.
Only time will tell which direction either of us are going to go with our M.
You just keep working on you and improving you. Become the man you always wanted to be - instead of the man you became.
You are the prize. Remember that. It's not about doing what you think she wants you to do, but rather doing what you want to do. Don't ever look at it as if you have to somehow prove something to her, or have to impress her, or anything to become what she wants. If that interests her, then she'll want to be with you. If it doesn't, then you're not the man for her.
The sooner you see this, the stronger you will be. I've discovered it's where we end up anyway if we do the right work. It would be nice to see you get there a lot earlier than I did.
I hear what you're saying steady. It's not going to be an easy journey, but I'm sure I'll be able to evaluate the sitch allot better once i return home.
She's been talking to me openly and honestly the past few days. i know it means very little, but it's been nice. we haven't talked like this in a long time. Most of it is her talking and me listening.
I told her that as much as it sucked, it was better she told me while I was gone. I told her it allowed me to handle it a way I may not have had I been home. I told her it allowed me to take a real good look inside me and start to become someone I want to be. I let her know that if there was any guilt for telling me over here to let it go, because I'm over it.
I'm headed down the road of becoming someone I wish I was years ago. maybe she see it and take the road with me, and maybe she wont. She noticed, so that means I must be doing something right for myself.
Nobody knows what the future will hold, but the future will be good one way or the other.
Also, I'm starting my trip home tomorow and I'm nervous as he!!.
Who wouldn't be nervous. Have a safe trip tbart. See you back on here soon.
I'll keep in touch as I can.
Wow tbart, you are traveling tomorrow! that seemed to go by fast... safe travels, read DR again on your flight!
Just when you think things couldn't get any worse they do.
i woke up this morning to find out that my D is in Juvy for stealing my W car. My W found her at the McDonalds parking lot and she fled. She turned up hours later and my W pressed charges and had her go to Juvy.
One of our friends that my W had cast aside showed up to help her. The friend told her at least I'll be home in a week and she wont have to go through this alone. My W told her that i was the reason for the this because i never did anything before. What a crock of B.S.
My W called and spoke to me and said we went wrong somewhere. i didn't have the heart to tell her what she is doing caused this. everything was fine with my D until my W told her about us. they fought and fought and now this. However, she has the balls to blame me.
We talked again later and i asked her to do me favor and not try to blame me. She acted completely surprised and asked me what I was talking about. i told her that i was informed that she was trying to blame me for this. i said pointing fingers at anyone isn't going to change what she has done, but we can together change what she does from here.
I also found out that my W tried to blame my downfall over here on our friend. After my W told me she wanted a D i got depressed over here. Some time later a friend called and told me to cover my a$$ because my W was. i never told my wife I was told this, but she told the friend the other day that she caused me to go downhill for saying this to me.
My W doesn't know how to accept blame for anything she's doing. She keeps pointing fingers at me or everyone else. the only people that believe her are the ones that only have her side of the story and don't really know me. She's obviously feeding her C a load of crap as well.
i have so much to look forward to when i get home don't I. They really meant it when they said to believe nothing they say and 50 % of what they do.
Right now feel like the M stuff can take a back seat. that will work itself out one way or the other. My #1 priority is absolutely my D.
I hope my W is happy. She's so detached from reality that this is no doubt a consequence of that. This is how well she's done with me gone and out of the picture.
My children need me more than ever, and I don't plan to leave them once I return home. She can go if she has to, but I can't let anything like this happen again. This is what her selfishness has caused, and I won't stand for it.
Unfortunately, I'm leaving tonight but it's only to Kyrgistan. I'll be sitting there until Friday when i leave for the states. It's going to be a long 3 days ahead for me and my family.
keep us in your thoughts and prayers.
We definitly will! Keep your head up... you have the right idea in your last post.. keep that frame of mind, its exactly what you need to deal with this.
I agree with Surviving03...focus on the task at hand(your D.)
Safe travels and sending good thoughts your way!
My W doesn't know how to accept blame for anything she's doing. She keeps pointing fingers at me or everyone else. the only people that believe her are the ones that only have her side of the story and don't really know me. She's obviously feeding her C a load of crap as well.
My W has been doing the same thing since the bomb dropped. I get the blame for absolutely everything. She has convinced her family and friends I am the spawn of Satan. It's just crazy.
Understand this is only a reflection of who she is and has nothing to do with you.
I know things are pressing in tightly. They have gone very tight in my sitch too ans sometimes is hard to keep your head above water. You're doing well so keep it up.
There's nothing I can say right now which isn't a repeat of something said already.
Keep your chin up.
Well it looks like the end of my M is almost here. My W just gave me a copy od the D papers to look over. Said she wanted me to look them over and then wanted to set a date with her attorney to sign them and get them filed. If she gets her way it will all be over in a little over 1 month. She is basically trying to get everything. She even wants me to sign over the house to her without her paying me 1/2 of the equity. Said that she couldn't afford it now. But when she sells the house in a couple of years she would give it to me then. Has she lost her damn mind or what.
M 48
W 44
M 24 yrs
D 19
D 12
Bomb dropped 3/8/10
M t rying to figure out what the truck looked liked that just ran over my a**
If it wasn't for bad luck these days I wouldn't have any. Who would have thought that I'd get to Kyrgyzstan and there govmt would get overthrown.
I'm stuck here for a few days longer. yes I'm out of Afghanistan, but I'm still stuck and not going home.
My D is home from juvy, but my W said she wants t talk to me about my D pessimistic attitude before I get home.
I hope I get to go home soon, and that my W has the same priority as I do, my D. The M issues can take a back seat for now, but she is selfish these days.
What are the odds that the day i get to Kyrgyzstan there govmnt gets overthrown. I'm stuck here for the time being until i can get a flight home.
Talked to my w today and she's still stuck in her selfish world. My daughter is out of Juvy and my W still wants to pick me up and drop me off and leave. I thought she would actually make my D the priority, my mistake.
when she said she wanted to make me dinner, she meant it would be ready in the crock pot for me. However, the house is clean and the sheets on the bed are clean. Wasn't that sweet of her to clean the house and give me clean sheets?
She really enjoyed our last convo, likes the changes, but still needs to drop and roll when I get home. you'd think I just spent 6 months in a combat zone and she might like to see me some.
Oh well, I'll just keep plugging away at MY life, and take care of my daughters.
tbart,
I know how hard it is to be going through what you are. Papers are only papers. That's it.
If you look at it nothing has changed. I know this doesn't make sense because it seems like it's moving faster than you had expected. But you're position is still the same - you have no idea what the future holds for you. Your W is still on the same path as she has been. But believe me, she's emotionally moving around also.
She's trying to push this thing through as fast as she can because she's running on impulse energy. She's built up a head of steam in this direction and she's pushing it. My W did the same thing. Less than a week after she told me she wanted a D she had an appraiser as the house. It's now 15 months later and we still have the house. She did this in many areas.
DO NOT GIVE HER EVERYTHING! My initial response was to be nice and to roll over and give my W what she wanted in the hopes of being a nice guy would help my chances to reconcile. My family did a great job of convincing me to fight for my children and my rights.
I'm not sure how the laws are in your state, but you must go see a lawyer and find out what's legally yours.
As far as her paying you down the road for half the house - if you end up agreeing to this make sure it's done legally and on paper, with a lawyer.
Question - Why does she get the house? Why not you? How about you keep the house and you pay her half later on down the road? My W thought I would be out of the house by that Easter, she would get the house, she would get the kids, I'd pay her full child support, she would keep the kids, and she actually offered me every other weekend and one overnight a week..maybe an after school also. How generous of her...lol.
They turn into nutballs wanting everything as if you owe it to them.
I can't stress this enough - GET LEGAL COUNCIL. No if ands or buts - PERIOD. You'll be glad you did.
Steady I know it's just a piece of paper, but it's a little more than that. When you get a legal S it's just like getting a D. Most of the time if the S turns into a D, the terms agreed upon during the S becomes the D agreement.
If that's the case then I will get the house because i make considerably more than her and she couldn't afford the house. we'll have to agree on everything just like were getting D. I'm not sure how much research she's done on it, but I've done plenty.
She say's we'll see how the separation goes in regards to us reconciling. The only problem is with all we have to do for a legal S, it will be hard to turn back or turn things to a M.
Also, as long as I can make it home in time, I have an appointment set up with an attorney next week.
It seems like I'll never be going home. Now there moving us from Kyrgyzstan to Kuwait. The civil unrest won't allow them to get us out of here to get home. Oh well that's my luck these days.
called the W to let her know about the change. While we were talking she called me hun (accidental I'm sure), she knows she did it and didn't correct herself. I know it was an accident, but it was good to hear. When I accidentally called her sweetheart a few weeks back i immediately corrected myself.
Hope to get home soon and have some updates for you guys.
Well I'm finally home, and it's allot harder than i ever imagined. She picked me up at the airport looking absolutely gorgeous. My daughters were there, and my D4 sprinted for me. I grabbed her and held and kissed her forever.
It was wonderful to be with my daughters, but it was hard to watch my W leave. She went into the room with me, gave me a giant hug and told me it was really nice to see me, and then she left. I told her she looked really good, and she should have not looked so good to come pick me up.
It's so weird being in my house and not having her here. I keep waiting for he garage door to open,and for her to walk in. Everywhere I go in the house it saddens me because I know she's not her.
My D14 is really sad because I'm here and my W isn't. My D4 is confused because my W is gone now that I'm not here.
I'm not so sure I'm going to be able to do this. I know it's only the first day, but it's killing me to be in this house without her. I miss her more now that I've seen her and touched her.
How am I going to do this?
Take it one day at a time. Keep GALing for yourself and your kids.
Ouch. Sounds like she is trying to torture you.
I feel for you man. Just hang in there and remember what I posted earlier. No matter what happens, good or bad, things will get better in time.
Hell I just went on my first real date. Imagine that.
I knew it would be hard once I saw her, but I didn't realize it would be this hard.
I just realized that in reality what she did today was walk out on her family. I know she left the kids with me, but she still just walked away. She turned and walked away from them.
My D14 was so upset that my W wasn't her that she had to call her. My D14 sat in the backyard talking to my W while crying because mom wasn't here. That would have to speak to even the coldest of hearts wouldn't it?
I'm just at a loss for words. I have no idea how I'm going to sleep in this house tonight, let alone in our bed. I'm literally sickened by all of this.
I know that feeling. First night I got zero sleep. And this is after working all night (night shift).
Sleeping pills can be your friend but just do not get hooked on them.
hey tbart... glad you made it back safely...
The first few days for you are going to be HELL... no sugar coating that... this might start to feel like a bomb all over again dealing with this all now in this new environment... but all of this stress and hurt will pass, take it one day or even one moment at a time...
HIDE that hurt though in front of your wife though tbart... always remember your DB skills... its hard to do.. and you will slip up sometimes but the sooner you can get in the routine the better...
Focus on your girls and yourself and remember this : Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional
Obviously I didn't do much sleeping last night. I think that was the loneliest night of my life. It just doesn't feel right being in this house without her or being in the bed without her next to me.
It just boggles the mind how she could do this to the kids. My D4 is confused and D14 is beside herself. I'm doing my best to comfort her, but she's old enough to understand.
This hurts like hell, and I'm letting myself suffer for it. I want her back in the house with us where she belongs.
yup... you are right, it is where she belongs... you know it, your girls know it... but W doesnt know it... not yet anyways.
Tbart... keep your head up... know that your wife does not make or break you... know that she does not have the power to make you sad and miserable... I know that you realizing this fully will come at your own pace, but the sooner you can start believing these things the better... TRUST ME. Let me tell you something.. as everyone has addressed here already, a woman needs a strong, powerful man... there is no dignity in begging for someone who doesnt want to be with you... there IS dignity in wanting to save your marriage, but PLEASE dont let your emotions take over your DB skills and show in front of wife...or even in front of the girls for that matter... they can report things back to wife. Now, there is a fine line between looking like you just dont care, and looking like you are strong enough to handle this and you are going to be fine. Find that balance... and own it. It really is the best thing you can do to GAL and focus on you and your daughters and let wife worry about the divorce... it will save your sanity... and it just might be what it takes to bring W back to you...
I know you know all these things... but I know it takes reminding sometimes when you are feeling real low... dont give up hope
Welcome HOME!!! Glad you made it home safely.
I'm sorry its rough right now.
I can't imagine leaving like your W did. It would break my heart...which is prob. the #1 reason I'm still in my house.
But Surviving is right on....don't let her see you sweat. It's going to be really hard...but don't. Take any and all focus off her right now.
If you need to meltdown or show emotion...leave the house or shut yourself in the bathroom til you gain composure, and vent to us.
Move forward with you and your girls. I have a D14 too...I can relate how hard it must be. Give it a few days and re-evaluate the sitch.
Thinkin of ya.
My W came over today to bring me my phone charger. Somehow as we were staring at each other not knowing what to say we got on the conversation of the R.
I was wanting to make some financial decisions that she didn't want me to do yet. Then I told her I didn't want to do this. She asked me if I understand why she wanted to it. I told her I realized the way she felt but didn't completely understand.
She spent allot of time crying, and we went back and forth on how we each felt. After I while I told her that I wanted to be her strength and shoulder to lean on. She told me she didn't need strength just someone to talk to. I told her I was here go ahead and talk.
She talked to me for a good long while just talking about her other than R issues. I never offered any advice, just listened and gave response when warranted.
After more crying by her I asked her if she wanted a hug and she shook her head yes. I went over and held her for about 5 minutes while she continued to talk to me.
She was again happy to see that we weren't arguing. I told her that I had already assured her I wouldn't argue. By the end of our talk she said that maybe if we continue to talk like that she'll be able to trust me. I assume she meant trusted that I'm for real and not fake.
My children still don't understand why mom isn't home, but I'm just trying to be there for them. I had a very long talk with my D to try and get her to open up and talk about things. It was a very good talk, and she knows she can talk to me.
I still hold on to hope,but we all know how these things can turn. I just need to continue doing what I'm doing and see what the future holds. For now, I'm really enjoying being with my daughters. We're having fun together and D14 is being very helpful. I still wish the house wasn't missing someone.
tbart01,
I've been following your sitch. Thank you for your service and welcome home!
Sounds like your W needed and got a lot off of her shoulders today. It was probably a relief for her. I think you did a great job of just listening to her. Not always easy for us guys, we want to fix the problem. The fact that you listened seems to have meant a lot to your W. She told you she was happy by your actions and that this could lead to more trust. Yes, I agree with you that she meant trust that your are real and not fake.
Today's conversation with your W could be the beginning to more open communication. As they say, slow and steady.
Just wanted to let you know that I'm pulling for you.
Best,
mza8
It just boggles the mind how she could do this to the kids. My D4 is confused and D14 is beside herself. I'm doing my best to comfort her, but she's old enough to understand.
This hurts like hell, and I'm letting myself suffer for it. I want her back in the house with us where she belongs.
Look I mentioned this before and I say it again,
when a WAW starts rationalizing her actions and leaves the kids behind and starts acting poorly and making poor decisions with regards to the well being of her children but focuses on her appearance and making sure she looks good (priorities are out of whack), this signals to me that there is another man. I know you've told me there isn't or that you don't know that there is but think about it. Shows up looking like little Miss Hottie to the airport, drops you off afterwards, her actions appear to be illogical and harmful when it comes to talking to the kids and caring for them, if she went to the airport dressed to kill but not for you, who for then? Do you really believe she got all dressed up like that just so that she could spend 5 minutes with you at the airport and then drop you off without spending anytime with you? Where did she have to go that she couldn't spend any quality time with her husband that just came back from a tour of duty where his life may possibly have been in danger?
Yes I know, there is no other man.... until you find out about him and then you'll be posting on here telling us how "it boggles the mind that could do this to you & the kids".
The warning signs are there, take it for what it is, maybe time for you to gather some intel.
Where is she staying right now?
Robx let me explain looking good. My W is a very attractive woman. She didn't dress or look any different than she ever has. I hadn't seen her for 6 months, so as you can imagine she looks extremely good to me right now.
Well I'm finally home, and it's allot harder than i ever imagined. She picked me up at the airport looking absolutely gorgeous. My daughters were there, and my D4 sprinted for me. I grabbed her and held and kissed her forever.
It was wonderful to be with my daughters, but it was hard to watch my W leave. She went into the room with me, gave me a giant hug and told me it was really nice to see me, and then she left. I told her she looked really good, and she should have not looked so good to come pick me up.
It's so weird being in my house and not having her here. I keep waiting for he garage door to open,and for her to walk in. Everywhere I go in the house it saddens me because I know she's not her.
My D14 is really sad because I'm here and my W isn't. My D4 is confused because my W is gone now that I'm not here.
I'm not so sure I'm going to be able to do this. I know it's only the first day, but it's killing me to be in this house without her. I miss her more now that I've seen her and touched her.
How am I going to do this?
hard to tell when you post like this,
you made it sound like it was on purpose,
I'll still stick to my original assessment until I hear enough info to make me think differently.
You haven't abused her, you haven't treated her like $hit, and she's willing to leave you and the kids without even considering some heavy duty marriage counselling - what's motivating her to move so fast?
Well, W wants to pick up D4 from daycare today and come over for dinner. She's been calling and talking to me every day since I've been home. Of course it's about D14 and other things, but it's still communication.
Hopefully it won't be to awkward having her over to the house. It will be the first time we've all spent any time together since I've been home.
Would it be wrong of me to ask for sex (I think I'm kidding)? Remember I've been away for six months, and last time I checked I was still a man. How difficult things are at times let me tell you.
Robx. there's absolutely no chance of a PA, but there's no way I could rule out an EA. All indications point to no A at all, but I'm not stupid and my eyes and ears are open.
Ok tbart, I didn't want to say anything to you earlier on with your posts. It's actually easier to detach when you are not physically in their presence. It comes as no surprise you are having a harder time now than you did when you were overseas.
But don't fret. It's all good. You can make it through all of this.
I'm a little confused on your arrangement with her. Is it she just moves out and you take full responsibility of the kids and she gets to pick and choose when she comes in and out of your lives?
You need to explain this as best as you can. There may be some boundaries you need to set concerning this.
Ask her if she wants a hug - not sure about this one. Remember, she's leaving you guys. I'm not so sure I would reward this behavior. I drew a line and told my W I'm not comfortable hugging a woman who's walking away from me and her family unit.
Ask her for sex? Are you a beggar? Do you need to just pick up the crumbs she may leave on the floor for you? Be careful the ground you are walking. Then tendency at this point is to not rock the boat. But rocking it is what you may need to do.
tbart, you aren't a puppy dog who hangs around the table hoping to get some scraps thrown your way. You need to show her a strong man, who has boundaries, who calls bullsh*t when you see it. Someone who doesn't have to wait for handouts. Someone who can handle a woman who doesn't want to be with him - because after all, who wants to be with someone who doesn't want to be with them?
Compliments? Pursuing. Let them go. She needs to see you moving forward, not pining over her as if she is the last woman you can ever be with.
I know your mind and heart will pull you in the other direction. It's counter-intuitive what I'm telling you. You're letting her have the control. She's basically saying - if you continue to behave like this, I might trust you. I might want to work on us. But as long as you keep behaving the way I want you to behave. Guess what? That hoop you are jumping through will move. When you jump through one hoop, there will be another. Then another, and another, etc... trust me, I've been there.
Screw the hoops. Do what's right for you. Don't wait for crumbs or handouts. You're worth more than that. You're in placate mode. I can see it by what you write.
You'll see yourself walking on eggshells...measuring everything you say and do - wondering what effect it will have on her. It's thin ice.
There's a fine line you have to walk. Almost like a razor's edge. You'll only know it when you fall off.
She needs to see you moving forward - not necessarily moving on, but moving forward.
When you compliment her, there is a needy flavor that comes with it. When you are detached, it will be matter of fact - as if you're saying it to a co-worker. That's what you're shooting for.
She can't chase something that isn't moving away. DO NOT CHASE HER. No matter what things seem to be...DO NOT PURSUE. If she turns to you, you may have to push away a little. She will test you. Do not let her walk on you. If she loses respect (she has lost some already..no idea how much) for you, they leave.
If you won't respect yourself by drawing boundaries across inappropriate behavior then she won't respect you. Think about this deeply.
I am not a big fan of laying down and letting them do their thing and accepting everything without boundaries.
Robx. there's absolutely no chance of a PA, but there's no way I could rule out an EA. All indications point to no A at all, but I'm not stupid and my eyes and ears are open.
Don't say absolutely no chance. Even the busiest of people have time. They take lunch, that's enough time. Where is she staying now?
I still have no idea if my W had OM. I haven't seen any evidence at all, but I never rule it out. Behaviors point to it, but I haven't been able to find anything.
At this point in my sitch it doesn't matter. But the beginning of a sitch it does. Keep your eyes open. If you snoop, prepare for the worst, and DON'T GET CAUGHT. If you find something, come here first with it. Do not confront her till you get feedback here.
tb you were away for 6 months or more,
anything could have happened during this time,
isn't your daughter 14 years old, isn't it possible your wife left your daughter home to watch your youngest while your wife went out to the store or somewhere else? People having an affair make time to have an affair.
Look you're right, there may be no affair whatsoever, but she sure is acting poorly and irrationally towards you while you've literally been away working in a war zone, pretty cruel behavior on her part, regardless if there is an affair going on or not.
I know your mind and heart will pull you in the other direction. It's counter-intuitive what I'm telling you. You're letting her have the control. She's basically saying - if you continue to behave like this, I might trust you. I might want to work on us. But as long as you keep behaving the way I want you to behave. Guess what? That hoop you are jumping through will move. When you jump through one hoop, there will be another. Then another, and another, etc... trust me, I've been there.
Screw the hoops. Do what's right for you. Don't wait for crumbs or handouts. You're worth more than that. You're in placate mode. I can see it by what you write.
You'll see yourself walking on eggshells...measuring everything you say and do - wondering what effect it will have on her. It's thin ice.
There's a fine line you have to walk. Almost like a razor's edge. You'll only know it when you fall off.
She needs to see you moving forward - not necessarily moving on, but moving forward.
When you compliment her, there is a needy flavor that comes with it. When you are detached, it will be matter of fact - as if you're saying it to a co-worker. That's what you're shooting for.
She can't chase something that isn't moving away. DO NOT CHASE HER. No matter what things seem to be...DO NOT PURSUE. If she turns to you, you may have to push away a little. She will test you. Do not let her walk on you. If she loses respect (she has lost some already..no idea how much) for you, they leave.
If you won't respect yourself by drawing boundaries across inappropriate behavior then she won't respect you. Think about this deeply.
I am not a big fan of laying down and letting them do their thing and accepting everything without boundaries.
Read Steady's post over & over again,
there's gold in that post, it's as good as anything I've read on these forums.
I hear everything you're saying. For the record these changes are for me, and I like the way I am now.
She's staying at her girlfriends house and she left 10 minutes after dropping me off. She claims she needs a break and is just worn out. She plans to stay away from home for two weeks. She calls everyday, and only comes over to see the girls after she asks me. I won't stop her from seeing them.
A far as the previous behavior that I said I displayed. Some of it I should have avoided, but the majority of it is completely opposite of what she was expecting.
Know it's killing her that I'm not the way she assumed I was going to be. My D14 described to me how my W said I was going to come home and act. I have yet to do or be any of it. This picture she painted in her mind of how I would be is now void.
I'm at the house alone taking care of my daughters, which is something that for some reason she didn't think I could do. I'm maintaining my composure and my control.
Does the WAW sort of pass a point of no return in there mind? The way she expected t be and act has already backfired. You can tell she wants to come home, but she can't or wont. She doesn't sleep and her stomach is a wreck. All things that she's causing to herself.
Everyone we know is confused at her actions, and angry as well. Do I call her out on walking out on her family? Where do I draw the line on what I can question or call her on? Others have asked her if she has someone else, do I ask?
Do I ask her what she's doing, because I still don't know? We've touched on things, but we still haven't really talked. Do I ask where this thing is headed and what her plans are? I still have no idea what she THINKS the plans are. Apparently she knows when she's coming home, but does she plan on me leaving at that point? Do I ask all these things or what?
I won't stop her from seeing them.
Of course not. Encourage the kids to be with their mom. This is good parenting.
Know it's killing her that I'm not the way she assumed I was going to be.{/quote]
Don't bank on this. They have a very strong way of rationalizing their behavior. You may do or say something and she'll warp it as if it's the old you coming back and you haven't changed at all. Been there, experienced that.
[quote=tbart01]This picture she painted in her mind of how I would be is now void.
It's not void. Believe me, it's alive and kicking. If it was void she wouldn't be acting the way she is. Again, they have an uncanny way of rationalizing, re-writing, exaggerating, embellishing. Anything to support their decision and direction.
I'm at the house alone taking care of my daughters, which is something that for some reason she didn't think I could do. I'm maintaining my composure and my control.
lol. I probably wrote that first line multiple times in my threads. They will think you are helpless and worth very little with taking care of business at home. Keep doing what you're doing with your D's. But do it because you want to be the best dad you can be, and a responsible parent. The kids need one parent to be the rock they cling to. That's YOU.
Does the WAW sort of pass a point of no return in there mind?
Some do, some don't. No one can predict it. Just know this, she will be past it, then she won't. Her feelings and behavior will move all over the map. You're job is not to get caught up in her erratic motion.
The way she expected t be and act has already backfired.
It only backfires when you become solidly the man you want to be. Even then, she might not even validate it. My W couldn't see me for the person I changed into. She still doesn't. It's almost like I'm invisible. Near the end of the sitch she had nothing that was less than a year old to throw in my face. Now that stuff is two years old. But you see, if she acknowledged the changes how could she possible rationalize the path she has taken? She still sees me as the old me. Granted, she has her own issues she won't deal with. But that's her cr@p and has nothing to do with me. My job is ME. Her job is her.
You can tell she wants to come home, but she can't or wont.
Even if she tells you this you can't be 100% sure. Take your mind off it. This is hers and not yours to deal with.
She doesn't sleep and her stomach is a wreck. All things that she's causing to herself.
Good. One of the good things about being physically separated is the WAS isn't constantly looking at you and running her BS through her head about how 'bad' you are. There comes a point where their own stuff comes to the forefront and they either deal with it or they don't.
Everyone we know is confused at her actions, and angry as well. Do I call her out on walking out on her family?
I wouldn't call her out on this...yet. She has told you two weeks. See where it goes. See if she wants to extend it. She won't be very receptive to you telling her. You are the last person she wants criticism from. Hopefully there are people in her life that will call her on it. She'd be more receptive to that.
Where do I draw the line on what I can question or call her on? Others have asked her if she has someone else, do I ask?
You don't ask if she has someone. One of the things you need to show her is you are a strong man and you aren't concerned with what she is doing. If you find STRONG evidence, and notice I emphasized strong, then you call her on it. But you cannot be vague or have gut feeling, or weak evidence. It will backfire.
The line for questioning or calling her on it - only things that are inappropriate. If she disrespects you, you call her on it. Your boundaries are important. Keep your dignity and self respect. Work on that.
If she keeps pushing off her time away, then you may want to call her on that. But you'll cross that bridge if you get to it.
I would give her the space she is asking for. Sometimes if you give them enough rope.....
One thing I like to remember:
Sometimes you get what you want and find out it isn't really what you wanted. Sometimes you get what you don't want, but find out it's exactly what you needed.
Do I ask her what she's doing, because I still don't know? We've touched on things, but we still haven't really talked. Do I ask where this thing is headed and what her plans are? I still have no idea what she THINKS the plans are. Apparently she knows when she's coming home, but does she plan on me leaving at that point? Do I ask all these things or what?
Don't bring it up. At all! She doesn't know what she's doing and if you ask, she'll give you the answer that's in her head at that moment. Two seconds later she'll have a different plan. Again, that's her life, that's her stuff to deal with. Stay out of her mind. YOU DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, and leave her out of your equation.
You are separate individuals. Break those dysfunctional threads and make sure you remember the sharp break between you two...meaning: there's you and there's her. They are not overlapping as much as you think or act. Healthy couples have a definite sense of TWO individuals who are self sufficient, healthy and fully functioning on their own.
If she plans on you leaving what are you going to do? What's acceptable for you? If it were me, I'd tell her she can leave and you are staying put. She's the one choosing this path. Let her sleep in the bed she is making. Hold your ground.
My W said many times, "Why don't you just leave?" My response was - "I'm not going anywhere. You're the one that wants out, you leave." PERIOD. End of story and conversation.
Notice the line I drew there was about me, not her. I was standing up and doing what was right for me and didn't include her in my formula. This is a healthy boundary.
All very well put Steady. One of the conclusions I've come to is that I don't want to leave my house when her time is up. I've been away from my daughters for six months, and I'm not going to be ready to not see them every day anytime soon.
I don't plan to leave, and it's going to be up to her what she does from there. She can continue to not sleep and wreck her health or she can bring her a$$ home to her children.
Right on...
She's obviously got stuff to work thru. Give her the space.
Reread everything Steady said. Bravo Steady...could not have been said better.
(just in case you were wondering what an AWAW would think)
Today we met for lunch to talk about my D14 and how we were going to punish her.
At the end of our convo my W said she didn't know what to do. I asked what to do about what? She replied, "about us".. She said she was thinking about it on the way over and for the past couple of days.
She said that we needed to talk to work things out. She also asked what I thought about MC, because she didn't think we could work it out ourselves.
I agreed about the working it out ourselves and to do MC at some point. I asked her if she wanted to have it with one of our IC or get a separate MC. She said she wanted a separate one so they wouldn't be biased. That's what I was hoping to hear, and I agreed.
We'll see when this takes place. No hurry on my part yet, but the talk will be soon to air some things out.
tbart,
Her bringing up MC is great. A very positive sign. She is showing a willingness to at least try. Reading your post I got a little confused. You agree you can't work it out on your own? I wouldn't make the MC something 'at some point'. I would start actively looking for one and strike while the iron is hot. I'd first ask my IC to see if they have any recommendations. Tell them you want an MC who is forward looking..not too focused on past stuff except the issues you guys need to get past in order to heal your R. (see below)
I have only one piece of advice if you go into MC.
Get a counselor who will focus on moving forward and not spending time focusing on the past. I've seen it happen too many times - too much focusing on the past just rehashes the disappointment and anger the WAS has. Make sure it's forward looking - What can we do to move forward and heal our R. What exercises, recommendations, etc... Date nights, time together, time apart, etc...
I can't stress this enough.
Remember, don't get high on the MC suggestion. Take it as matter of fact. Stay grounded. Don't get cocky. Don't push. Keep the focus on you. Own your issues and work on them.
Period.
Steady that was the exact kind of marriage counselor I had in mind. I didn't mean that I wanted to wait for a long time. I want to get this thing started as soon as possible.
I was happy to hear it myself, but it isn't going to be a magic fix all. Tomorrow we're going to finally have the us talk. Any advice will be greatly appreciated.
Also I didn't mean to say we couldn't work it out on our own. I believe we can, but she doesn't. If MC will make her feel more comfortable, then I'm willing to give it a go.
As I mentioned before we're going to have our R talk tomorrow. I know she's going to bring it on, but I want to make sure I don't feed her fire. I'm pretty sure I shouldn't bring up any gripes I have correct?
There's allot of things she's done throughout this that has bothered me, to include leaving. My D14 says she feels my W has abandoned them. That's her feeling not something I've implanted. I've tried to tell her that mom just needs some time to herself and not something she's done.
I suppose I need to remember to validate things, but stay firm and call B.S. Should I leave my issues with her to myself? I'm looking forward to this because things will finally be in the open, but this is where it will all begin.
Any other advice I should keep in mind? Also we haven't settled on a place to do this. Should we choose a place she can yell if necessary or make sure she can't? She will also need somewhere to cry if need be as well. Any help would be great.
Anyone have anything I'm may be forgetting before my R talk?
tbart I just got home from being away overnight without computer access.
Just remember this - I can see how you feel that way. Because remember, whether you agree or not with what she is saying, she BELIEVES it. So her feelings are valid for her. Don't negate them. Just because you validate her feelings doesn't mean you agree with them or feel the same way yourself.
Place. Make it as neutral as possible without being surrounded by reminders of the past. In other words, if you guys argued a lot in the bedroom, don't do it there.
Leave your gripes at the door. There is nothing wrong with saying WE - as in, we did damage to our relationship. But don't correct her with a WE.
Own what's yours. Talk about YOU, the issues you have, the mistakes you made, the things you are working on.
Be open to criticism on things you may not even see about you which need work.
If you can't answer a question then state that - "I really don't have an answer to that. I'll need some time to think about it and I'll get back to you." Nothing wrong with that.
If she becomes abusive just say, "I want to have this talk with you, but I don't want it to contain disrespect, so maybe we should take a break." "i understand you're angry and you feel the way you feel. But I care about myself enough to not allow anyone to disrespect me or abuse me." etc....
Draw boundaries if you need to. The paragraph above is drawing boundaries. Notice, I didn't say she was abusing...the focus is totally on you and what is acceptable to you or not. Using the "I won't allow anyone...." does not put the blame on her, but draws a distinct line of a boundary you have with everyone. If you say, I won't allow you to disrespect me, her defenses will go up and the battle will begin. How can she argue with you saying you won't allow ANYONE to treat you like _______ fill in the blank. After all, she can't deny she feels the same way.
Hope this isn't reaching you too late.
We're not even going to do it at the house. We don't want to have the conversation in front of the kids. I have no idea where we're going to go. She's at the movies with D14, and when she gets back we're going somewhere.
We've been getting along really well when we're together. Today we went and looked at the condition of our rental today. At one point we were standing outside looking at the roof, and she stood there with her arm around me while we looked.
She sees us getting along every time we're together, we even laugh and joke. When we talk about things we don't fight, but she still won't come home yet.
Oh well, I'll know more after we talk this evening. I'll let you guys (Steady) know how it goes.
Well we had our conversation. We wen't down to the river and sat in the car and talked.
It went very well with both of us just talking and no one losing there cool. It was a very open and honest conversation.
She said she part of her wants to come home and put this behind her, while the other part still holds resentment. She's afraid that if she comes home now she'll go back into her shell. She doesn't trust me enough yet that I would not let her go into her shell.
We still have more talking to do over time, but progress is made each time we speak. This isn't going to get fixed over night, and I just need to give her time.
I told her that when she's ready t come home I won't be ready to not see my daughters everyday. She completely understood, and has been thinking about that. Not quite sure what she meant by that.
With all that has gone on with her and I, my D14 and juvy, and some things with her mom, she doesn't feel she can come home and be a good mom. She just needs a little time to gather herself.
She's still pondering the idea of coming home and letting me stay in the spare room. Not sure if she'll give in to that one, but we'll see.
It was a good talk, and we'll see what future talks hold for us. Also, there's still MC in our future.
Sounds positive. At least you guys have a line of communication open about the whole sitch.
My W and I had none. She only wanted to do what she wanted to do, beat on me in MC, and had no desire to work on anything. Your position appears to be good.
Don't drop your guard. Keep doing what you've been doing. Like you said, it's going to take time.
[quote=tbart01]
She's still pondering the idea of coming home and letting me stay in the spare room. Not sure if she'll give in to that one, but we'll see.[quote]
what the heck?!
are you trying to bribe her to come back home by telling her that if she does, you'll move out of the master bedroom and stay in the guest room while she stays in the master bedroom?
Haven't you read anything on this forum?
You don't move out of the master bedroom, ever!
If she wants to come back, she can sleep on the couch, she can sleep in the guest room, in fact, it's you who should be telling her, you're not sure you want her sleeping in the master bedroom yet, it doesn't feel right for you considering all that's happened and you would like to maintain things the way they are and since you just got home, it's best for you to stay in the master bedroom which is normal and familiar for you and it's what you want after being away from home for so long.
You have been warned, do not move out of the master bedroom if she offers to come back home. It's your bed.
You aren't doing any favors to her by supplicating her WAW behavior. TB how long have you been on these forums and you still think like this?!
"...and letting me stay in the spare room.
read that part over and over again and let me know when it actually makes sense to you that she "lets you stay" in the spare bedroom or the master bedroom. Why do you need her permission? Why are you seeking her approval? Acting like this kills attraction between men & women and you need to smarten up!
I never really told her that I would be sleeping in the other room. I just said that we could stay in separate rooms.
We have a ways to go, but I feel that when we do end up in the house together it won't be in separate rooms. Right now she's afraid that MC will cause too much tension between us, so she's afraid to be in the house together after a session.
We both agreed that digging up the past won't help with MC, and we need solution oriented to help us move forward. She's still confused with all that's going on, not just R. However, things appear more positive than gloom like before.
tbart01,
Looks at OfficerInNeed post. He has a list of 20 bullet items to be handled. There is no focus on handling old arguments, but rather addressing the issues today:
Like:
1. Sleep in the same bed
2. Wife wears wedding ring
3. Regular sex life and intimacy
4. Cold attitude gone and working together on most issues
5. Delegated responsibilities
6. Better communication
7. Better management of anger
8. Rules on discussion of sensitive issues (IE: don't discuss in front of kids )
9. Attend Retrauville and sessions
10. Several dates per month
11. Wife also initiates intimacy and sex life
Something like that. I have about 30 issues that I could address in my sitch and I'd be a pretty happy camper.
"We both agreed that digging up the past won't help with MC, and we need solution oriented to help us move forward."
I believe you're wrong here. You need to figure out what happened in the past that might have caused this current sitch. Look on these boards. Too many people are back here again because they swept their original problems under the rug. Too many.
Address your past issues now so they don't resurface. Not saying that a specific event in the past caused your current problems, but it's usually a culmination of many "little" resentments.
MrBond I think what he means is to not keep going over the past in MC. That happened to me. My W kept talking about past issues over an over and each time she relived it in her mind. She also kept changing to make it worse and worst.
I agree they have to find out what went tangent and what each of their issues are. But I think that only needs to be done one time.
I think tbart has identified many of his issues as well has his wives. I think what they need to do is express those in MC, then come up with something similar to the bullets listed above.
The past is in the past. I think what happens a lot here is the WAS won't find it in their heart to forgive and move forward. Too much staring into the rear-view mirror causes a crash.
Just my two cents.
Steady you know me too well now. That's exactly the thing, we know the issues there's just no need to dwell on them.
I have already corrected most of the flaws I know I needed to fix. I can't change whatever has been done nor can she. All we can do is make sure we don't fall into it again.
I'm further along in the repair phase than my W is. She's going to get back to me later this week on MC. She has also admitted to having problems forgiving which hinders her ability to trust. This isn't anything new, it just never applied to me before.
You all bring up good points, but Steady's explanation is spot on. We have positive steps being made here, and I hope we can keep going forward. The communication has been incredible, she just needs to sort her head out.
I'm being patient and giving her the time and space she requires. You also need to remember that I've been gone for six months and she was left with all the responsibilities. A military spouse is the hardest job there is, and she's held up very well until now. She's a bit overwhelmed, and I need to clear that up first.
Just enjoying being a dad right now.
"We both agreed that digging up the past won't help with MC, and we need solution oriented to help us move forward."
I believe you're wrong here. You need to figure out what happened in the past that might have caused this current sitch. Look on these boards. Too many people are back here again because they swept their original problems under the rug. Too many.
Address your past issues now so they don't resurface. Not saying that a specific event in the past caused your current problems, but it's usually a culmination of many "little" resentments.
Bond,
Are we saying while it may be good to address the large milestones, that there may be some fundamental reasons why things would get so bad in the first place. Perhaps these fundamental flaws, personality issues or mis-communications could be dealt with or managed as to eliminate issues in the future.
Basically everything comes down to mis-communication. What one person might perceive as a "joke" another might take it seriously. I think when we are in a long-term R, that line tends to get blurred and we forget that.
If the two of you haven't been to MC yet, then that is where you need to bring up your past issues. Not together. I found out that you really need that third party to kind of sort through the egos and get to the real problems. What you might think is a "problem" might just be a symptom of a larger issue.
Of course you're not going to dwell on it, but you want to cut out the cancer rather than just tossing a band-aid on it.
Just my 2 cents.
Just to add. I think that's why alot of people end up back here. They believe they've resolved their issues, when in actuality all they do is sweep things under the rug. Doesn't work.
Bond that's fair enough and understandable. I'm sure that's exactly what will happen if we make it to that point.
Today she came over and as she was leaving she asked if she could come home on Friday. I asked her what she expected me to do, and she actually expected me to stay somewhere else. I told her that I wasn't leaving. I said I'd been gone for six months and I wasn't ready to leave.
She drove away, and I was beside myself. I asked her to come back and stay with the kids because I needed to go collect myself. I left and went to some friends house to talk.
When I came back my W was in her pajamas in the bed with my D4. She got up and came out back to talk to me. I told her that I deserved to stay in this house just as much as she did. I said she's more than welcome to stay here anytime, no one is telling her she has to go.
She said how much she missed the girls, and I told her to imagine doing that for six months like I did. Now understand why I'm not ready to leave. At one point she was going to go where she was staying to get her stuff and come back. She said she would sacrifice herself for the sake of her children ( whatever). I told her I didn't want her staying for reasons like that and to come home when she was ready.
She asked me what I was expecting from her after only a week. I told her wasn't expecting her to come home yet, but that the children took precedence over her right now.
I asked her if she afraid of me changing or that the changes I've made weren't permanent. She said she didn't trust that the changes were real. I told her that was fair enough and understandable, but that I know myself pretty good and I know their for real.
After she left she called and asked if I would make a deal with her. She wanted to know if she could be with the kids on the weekend ad I could have them back on Monday and that would give us another week to figure out what to do long term. I told her she was asking an awful lot from me, and that I wasn't sure so let me think about it.
Way to stand up for yourself. I personally think her request is reasonable. I would give her my hand but not my arm.
It would show her that you care about the her as well as the kids IMHO.
Stand up to her and tell her no. You haven't seen them in months. Start establishing your boundaries.
Well it seems that the end has arrived. I am signing the divorce papers this week and moving into an apartment. Like I read somewhere on this site, I am moving foreward, not moving on. But before I leave I was going to send her this note that I wrote asking her to explain something to me. But I wanted to run it by people here to see if I should or not. So here goes:
I think after almost 27 years together I deserve an explanation as to why this has happened. The only thing you have ever said was that you weren't happy. You have never said why you didn't come to me and tell me that you were unhappy or why you were unhappy. So why?
I never abused you, never treated you like crap, didn't drink, do drugs or have an affair. Yet for whatever reason once you became unhappy you just decided to throw it all away without putting any effort to trying to save our marriage. I know that I wasn't without fault in our marriage. I know that a lot of times I couldn't or wouldn't admit that I was wrong and I know that I didn't always communicate the way I should or could have and in doing these things I helped create a situation where you didn't think you could talk to me. And that was wrong on my part. I stopped being you best friend when you needed one. I take full responsibility for that and I am forever sorry I let that happen. I know that I was 50% responsible for the relationship problems. But you were 100% responsible for the affair, and there was no reason for you to have an affair. You chose that route all on your own. You knew that is was wrong, but you chose to do it anyway. And by chosing to have the affair you became selfish and self serving and unwilling to address the issues that were affecting our marriage and work on the problem because you were to busy with the other man in your life. You wanted what you wanted and to hell with everything and everybody else. And still to this day you haven't ever shown an ounce of regret for the hurt you caused or the chaoss you created. And now look at what that has cost us and our daughters. A broken family.
tbart...are you two proceeding on with finding an MC?
As I read it tbart she's asking you for them THIS weekend only. Is that correct? If so, then I would do it. It does show you empathize with her position. I imagine it's hard for her to be away from the kids - but if this is hard for her, she's in for a rude awakening if she decided to separate.
This is why you need an MC. Although the communication channel is open there's a lot of confusion. I think there is also expectations from both sides that are not really being expressed. ie: She's asking you what you expect after only one week. She has her expectations and you have yours. The confusion is mixed in there. It's very difficult to untangle the issues and miscommunication because they are so inter-twined; it will take a third party to help separate them out so they can be seen and dealt with one by one.
I agree with your boundary. If she wants, she can stay somewhere else and come in and out of the house as she wishes. But you stay put!
Don't flinch when she throws the victim card out there - as in "I'll sacrifice myself for the needs of the kids".. it's just drama.
Did you ask her what she expected after only one week?
mudpuppy, do you have your own thread? If you do please point me to it. If you don't have one, then start one and post your post above on it. It's much easier for people to respond and help you when you have your own thread. Otherwise we'll be bouncing all over the place.
I'd hold off on the note for now until you can get some feedback. Your own thread will help because people will see it on the main beginners page rather than buried in this thread.
I'll will address your post when I have more time later on.
Bond that's fair enough and understandable. I'm sure that's exactly what will happen if we make it to that point.
Today she came over and as she was leaving she asked if she could come home on Friday. I asked her what she expected me to do, and she actually expected me to stay somewhere else. I told her that I wasn't leaving. I said I'd been gone for six months and I wasn't ready to leave.
She drove away, and I was beside myself. I asked her to come back and stay with the kids because I needed to go collect myself. I left and went to some friends house to talk.
When I came back my W was in her pajamas in the bed with my D4. She got up and came out back to talk to me. I told her that I deserved to stay in this house just as much as she did. I said she's more than welcome to stay here anytime, no one is telling her she has to go.
She said how much she missed the girls, and I told her to imagine doing that for six months like I did. Now understand why I'm not ready to leave. At one point she was going to go where she was staying to get her stuff and come back. She said she would sacrifice herself for the sake of her children ( whatever). I told her I didn't want her staying for reasons like that and to come home when she was ready.
She asked me what I was expecting from her after only a week. I told her wasn't expecting her to come home yet, but that the children took precedence over her right now.
I asked her if she afraid of me changing or that the changes I've made weren't permanent. She said she didn't trust that the changes were real. I told her that was fair enough and understandable, but that I know myself pretty good and I know their for real.
After she left she called and asked if I would make a deal with her. She wanted to know if she could be with the kids on the weekend ad I could have them back on Monday and that would give us another week to figure out what to do long term. I told her she was asking an awful lot from me, and that I wasn't sure so let me think about it.
how long have you been back, a week, maybe 2 at the most and she wants to take the kids away?
Listen, just tell her, look it's been 6 months since I've seen the kids and I really want to soak up as much time as I can with them. If you want to join us as we have plans for this weekend you're welcome to otherwise maybe you can pick them up on monday and take them for a few days and bring them back tuesday evening or wednesday morning.
You don't have to bend over backwards for her, in fact since she wants to leave and not live at the home anymore, you really have to focus on you and the kids, what she does is her business.
Stop asking her about the changes you've made, seriously, how could any changes you think you've made be classified as permanent and long lasting, you're fooling yourself and her if you think they are - what changes have you made? Also trying to convince someone of the changes you've made communicates the opposite to that person.
If you've made real changes, live them, your actions will be far more powerful and visible than any words used to convince someone of that. Stop talking about your changes, in fact, you should be thinking about changes she's made, is she perfect? Probably not. Did she do things to harm the relationship and not take care of things you wanted? Probably.
Don't make this one sided, when you do, you give that person too much power, she's already sending out feelers to see if she can get you to move out, to stay in the guest room, this that, that this, etc.
I agree with your boundary. If she wants, she can stay somewhere else and come in and out of the house as she wishes. But you stay put!
Yes stay put but I'm not sure how much I agree on coming & going as she pleases, I would tell her, if you're going to come by, please call before just to see if we're home first.
Because if you allow coming & going as she pleases, you'll get that x 100.
Yes stay put but I'm not sure how much I agree on coming & going as she pleases, I would tell her, if you're going to come by, please call before just to see if we're home first.Because if you allow coming & going as she pleases, you'll get that x 100.
100% right, here. I even had advance notice/approval/my presence clause put in separation agreement. Ultimate boundary!
I told her it may still be 1/2 your asset,
but it's my home!
I should have been more clear about that sentence. My underlying message was for him to stay put.
The other guys clarified what I meant but didn't write about her coming and going.
To be honest, I would still give her the one weekend. As long as it's ONE. I don't think it's an unreasonable request IMHO. Others may see it differently.
I think the only reason you wouldn't do it is to spite her. But if you can deny her the weekend for some valid reason where it's not to 'teach her a lesson' then denying may be a better choice for you.
I'm not a big fan of controlling people or situations to punish someone. I find that always seems to backfire on me like a freakin boomerang - and it always feels bigger and heavier when it hits me than it did when I threw it. Again, my two cents.
Absolutely stand your ground about you staying put in the house!
I totally agree with robx on the changes talk. Just assume she doesn't believe your changes. They never do. It does send opposite message when you raise the 'changed' flag and start shouting to she notices.
Improve for you. If she sees it fine, if she doesn't fine. If she likes them, fine, if she doesn't, fine. Remember those changes are for you not for her.
tell you what, tell her this weekend you've already made plans like I mentioned but she can have them next weekend, I don't think this is unfair at all, you've been away so long and you want to spend time with your kids, you're not being controlling, just tell her you made plans already but that next weekend after this one is free and if she wants to take them for the weekend she can, it's ok to be selfish in alot of situations, not selfish to be punitive to her but selfish to enjoy your family. You were in a warzone for 6+ months and now you're back, something horrible could have happened while you were out there and you may never have seen your family again, you're home now and you want to take in every second of your family because you know what it's like not to get to see them everyday.
Listen after a few weeks or months, if things don't improve, you guys are going to have work out a custody schedule anyways and although it's nothing to look forward to, it's not something to be afraid of either, its the reality of the situation and it's not just reality for you, it's for her too.
For the record she brought up the changes, not me. She likes the changes, but she doesn't trust they're real. I told her that was fair enough.
Peace we still plan to do MC, but she hasn't given me a go as of yet. She has her IC tonight and I have mine tomorrow.
I'll probably let her have the weekend with them. I'm just proud that I stood my ground and made it clear she's welcome to come home but I'm not going to leave.
I'm also proud because she was going to come home last night for the wrong reasons and I told her no. If and when she comes home I want it to be because she wants to. we don't need added tension in the home. It has been and peaceful with just me and my daughters.
She's miserable staying away, but that's a choice she's making. I told her she could have the spare bedroom if she wanted it.
Ok. So you've made a decision. Good. Better than waffling about with it. Just don't let her make it a steady diet of taking them for the weekends.
Remember, this is her choice, not yours. They need to feel the repercussions of her decisions. Like robx said above - if down the road you end up with a custody plan, she'll be away from the kids then too. So if she doesn't like it now, she better change course or she'll be dieting more on what she doesn't like.
You did good standing your ground and telling her you didn't want her home under the 'reasons' she gave. (If you can even call it that)
Steady, I was on here 5 years ago and now I am back again. My first post back was on 3/31 and can be found on page 29 on this thread.
mudpuppy,
If you want people to comment to you, you need to start your own thread. Right now this is tbart's.
Yes. mudpuppy make your own thread and put the post you posted above regarding your letter in it. You'll get the feeback you are looking for.
Well no real updates. My W and I have been getting along really well with open communication. Still don't understand why she can't stay in the spare room, but hey.
She said she wants to take things slow, and get to know each other again. She envisions us dating again.
I'm letting her stay here with the girls this weekend. It doesn't make much sense because we'll be together during the day. She wants us to spend the day together working on the trailer, then go shopping for pajamas for D4 and then dinner.
This situation really sucks. I like that we get along and enjoy it when we're together, but I don't understand the not sleeping in the same house. It's not like I asked her to sleep in the same bed as me. Maybe she's afraid she'll rape me..............lol
Anyway, I'll let you guys know how the weekend goes. I know I'm going to a friends house tomorrow for a crawfish boil.
Just checking up on you. Nothing to add. Have a nice time and enjoy each others company. Start planning some dates. Court her all over again.
Well the weekend is over and I'm back home with the kids, and confused as hell.
We hung out all weekend as a family and it was her idea. Things were great and even she text and commented to me how well things went. However, at the end of every day we went our separate ways. We can spend the days together, but not the night.
She said sher needs a chance to process how well the weekend went, and she might not be able to do it this week. She wants to come over after work tonight so her and I can do bills, and then Wednesday during my C appointment.
She told me that everytime we talk it makes her feel better and she likes the progress. She told me the other day that she wants to just kiss me sometimes or come home and put things behind us. She also said that the time frame for us to be under the same roof or date isn't as long as I'm envisioning. She said it could be tomorrow or weeks.
I told her that I thought our old marriage was dead, and that the only for us to be together again is to rebuild and make things better than they were before. I told her I wanted pieces of our old marriage, but I want it improved.
She says she doesn't want to rush things, but I feel that they are going in slow motion. She wants to get to know each other again. I told her that we know each other, 17 1/2 years together will do that, but that we've both made changes that we need to get to know.
All in all we're making baby steps in the right direction, but it's still frustrating the heck out of me. If things are going so well then why can't we stay in our home together, separate bedrooms of course?
She also told me that she wants me to pick a MC for us in the next two weeks.
lol tbart. Don't throw a damn wrench into the works. I mean, remember where you were not too long ago?
Impatience is one of the number one killers on this board. Why the rush? You've gotten more than you bargained for at this point. I mean, you were overseas complaining how your marriage was over.
Well it aint over is it? You're getting positive signs yet you want to get behind the cart and push the crap out of it. I totally understand, it happens all the time here. But if you push too fast, you'll actually make everything go backwards. Don't bring it up. Just focus on yourself and what you need to do to find your own individual happiness. Keep making the changes you need to make.
You guys are on different paths with different thoughts and different emotions. Allow her to find her own way without you having to steer it. That's control.
The lesson here for you - allow life to unfold. Let go of control. Keep your eyes on you.
Remember where you were not that long ago. It won't be hard - just re-read your threads from the beginning.
And don't stay away from the boards so long..lol. I thought you sank yourself in some quicksand or something.
Steady your correct, but I guess I was just surprised at how well things were going because of how hopeless things seemed.
I expected her to look at things the same way I guess. We have good times together, but seem to always end up on the R talk.
Yesterday was frustrating for me because I had spent the weekend away, and she was once again leaving. She came over after work and sensed the frustration and negativity, so she left. However before she could leave we had the R talk in the driveway.
She's tire of having these talks and wouldn't speak to me for the rest of the night. I had asked her to set one day a week for a specific time to have the R talk and she liked the idea. We have MC set up for next week, and that's when we're going to do this.
I don't want to keep having these talks. I actually want a chance to keep spending time together and rebuilding not rehashing.
I know there are going to be hiccups, and yesterday was a hiccup, but she sees it as the same old me even though it wasn't. I need to be patient and stop trying to rush things, but the results were so good so fast that I started to get ahead of myself.
There's times I just want to give up and move o because it's so frustrating, but I can't do that. The fact that shes willing to work on this speaks volumes.
I need to get back to the basics and realize what i did to make things go well. I veared of the path and need to get back on it.
You think maybe it goes hand in hand with you taking a sabbatical from these boards for a few days?
Actually I've been busy and away from the computer, so I'm sure it may have. Also, I made the mistake of reading things being one way, when she still felt another. She keeps sending me mixed signals and it's confusing.
I've now slipped into the no matter what I do right it's wrong stage. It's amazing how quickly things can be turned around on you.
tbart she's sending you mixed signals because she's mixed up. It's the roller coaster ride. Best case scenario - no matter which signal she gives you, you take them the same way. As if they are nothing. You keep steady while she sends all these signals.
If it's a positive signal - you think: ok, this is a signal at the exact point in time. It means nothing.
If it's a negative signal - you think: ok, this is a signal at this exact point in time. It means nothing.
When you see a 'signal' we start to project that into the future as if it will stay. When it switches to the other side we start to project that into the future as if it will stay like that.
It's our projecting into the future that is the problem, not the mixed signals. This is where the confusion comes from.
We see an 'apparently' good signal, we go up in hope and feel good. We see an 'apparently' bad signal, we go down and feel bad.
Get it?
Here's a good story for you:
We'll See...
There is a Taoist story of an old farmer who had worked his crops for many years. One day his horse ran away. Upon hearing the news, his neighbors came to visit.
"Such bad luck," they said sympathetically.
"We'll see," the farmer replied.
The next morning the horse returned, bringing with it three other wild horses.
"How wonderful," the neighbors exclaimed.
"We'll see," replied the old man.
The following day, his son tried to ride one of the untamed horses, was thrown, and broke his leg. The neighbors again came to offer their sympathy on his misfortune.
"We'll see," answered the farmer.
The day after, military officials came to the village to draft young men into the army. Seeing that the son's leg was broken, they passed him by. The neighbors congratulated the farmer on how well things had turned out.
"We'll see" said the farmer.
------------------------------------------------------
tbart, be this farmer.
Steady, I'm actually trying to see things this way. I can't be reading into anything positive or negative. It's difficult especially since everything was negative before I got home.
Now she has us spending time together, which I never imagined would be possible again. She's coming over tonight to see the girls while I go to C, then we're all going to dinner tomorrow. We're also going to dinner and a movie Saturday night for my D14 birthday.
We star MC this Friday, so we'll see how that goes.
I wish you the very best.
it's hard to NOT get excited or think that our loved one's changing but you need to keep DBing and just keep moving forward.
HUGS!
Steady:
Your advice to tbart is wonderful, and is very important to me in my current situation. These are words of wisdom. Thank you so much.
yes great story about the Farmer, I love it. How is it going today tbart? I dont know if you have still been keeping up on my sitch, but H and I are working on reconciling, its been about a week and a half now, so far so good.
I havent read what his most currently going on with you... but I will tell you, I had a couple of false reconciliations with H before this time, two other times to be exact, and both of those lasted all of 24 hours. And I can say now that looking back, I could see he wasnt really serious at those times... but this time, I honestly believe he is genuine. You will know too... But just be careful right now, since its not necessarily a reconciliation for you two to be spending time together, just be careful I think to not give her too much opportunity for cake eating... I would just hate for her to think that things between you two can just be this cordial all the time and she still doesnt have to be married to you, you know what I mean?
Good luck with the MC!
SV3 I saw that you and your H were reconciling and I'm happy for you. I truly hope it works out for you guys.
I've been busy remodeling our rental since I've returned so I haven't been on here as much as I need to. Tomorrow is our first MC session so we'll see how that goes.
I'm very confused and frustrated by my situation. After being together so much last week and this weekend she's scaled it back a bit. I have no idea what's going through her head nor do I want to try and figure it out.
It seems like the better things go the more withdrawn she becomes. She says she envisions us dating, but unless it's lunch she turns down everything else I suggest.
She came to stay with the girls while I went to my C session. Before she left i asked her for a hug which shes given me before. I know I shouldn't have, but I did, she extended her hand for a shake instead. I was floored , but let it go and walked on. This morning I received a text from her thanking me for not pressuring her for a hug. She said she's happy to know I'm not pressuring her.
It's very difficult to see her as much as I do and not have things progress better than they are. I'm not pressuring her, I'm letting things fall as they may, but it's very difficult. I try not to read her because I almost always misread.
Things are going well, but I don't want to be her friend. I have plenty of friends and I don't need her to be one of them. I've been waiting for her to show some form of affection, and sometimes she gets up in my face like she wants to kiss me but she doesn't.
I told her that I would probably wait forever for her, but I don't want to have to do that. She said she would never do that to me, and she knows that it's not fair to me the way she's been. She wanted things to go according to her timetable, but they aren't. I almost think she's afraid that things have gone so well so fast.
I know these things take time, but including the 6 months I was away it's already been a long time. i just want things t be over one way or the other, but I have to make sure I've done everything I can first.
Stop asking her for hugs. You see how that can turn out.
Stop asking her on dates.
Stop telling her you'll wait forever. That's not true and it's pressure on her.
Stop telling her you love her.
Stop looking for affection from her.
Stop wondering what she's doing. It bleeds out through you whether you believe it or not. She can feel it.
Stop being desperate and needy.
Steady that was the first time I asked her for a hug, she asked the other time.
I've asked her for coffee on two occasions.
I don't tell her I'll wait forever for her, but yes I did say once that I probably would but don't want to have to do that.
I haven't told her that I love her months.
I haven't been wondering what shes doing believe it or not. That's strange even for me to do, but it's a good feeling.
I live my life everyday with my girls. I don't call her or ask for anything. I f she comes over it's because she's asked if she could. If we do something together it's because she asked or suggested it.
Ok good. It was just a quick smack if you needed it. Apparently you don't.
This line - "She says she envisions us dating, but unless it's lunch she turns down everything else I suggest." - suggested it was more than two times for coffee.
This line - "I almost think she's afraid that things have gone so well so fast." - seemed to indicate to me that you are trying to read her mind and are wondering what she is doing (doing to me includes thinking/acting/emoting, etc...)
When you wrote this - "I told her that I would probably wait forever for her, but I don't want to have to do that." - I interpreted that as something you did recently.
And then this - "I've been waiting for her to show some form of affection, and sometimes she gets up in my face like she wants to kiss me but she doesn't." - this looked to me that you are waiting for her to give you some affection. Waiting is needing, needing is desperate, desperate oozes out of us like sweat... If she got up in my face I might say, "You want to kiss me don't you?" with a big grin on my face..like a teasing grin. But only you can read it.
I empathize with you tbart. I know exactly how it feels to be in the position you are in. I lived it, and it sucks. Detaching is the hardest part. I think patience comes in a close second.
Yes unfortunately I'm waiting for her to show me some warmth or affection. It sucks, but I've been apart from her for 7 months now and haven't had the ability to detach.
We had MC tonight and it wasn't good or bad it was MC. I know she left my presence in a hurry and said she'd see me in the morning. She's coming over to take D14 clothes shopping.
I do know one thing, I don't know what our outcome will be. I just thought I'd throw that in, because none of us would have come here if we knew our outcome.
By the way Steady left the date invitation open ended, so it's not something I continue to ask about. I asked her yesterday if she wanted to get together tonight after MC if things went well. You see where that went.
Well imagine that, I just found out that I pissed my W off at MC yesterday.
In the beginning I told the C that my W appears to not be contacting or seeing the children as much this week. My W immediately called me out on the accusation, I thought about it, and I retracted the accusation. In reality its me she's been more distant to, not hem, but it seemed like it was all of us.
This isn't going to be easy that's for sure. Unfortunately, she's already having trouble forgiving me for things and this isn't going to help. It doesn't matter how much I apologize for something, it never has,she will hold it against me forever.
I thought MC went pretty well, but obviously I was incorrect. She's still unable to talk to me about how she feels. She's always bottled things up and thrown them at me at a later time. She only told me about her anger because I forewarned her that I was sad, confused and frustrated today.
I forewarned her because of the negative attitude I projected earlier in the week because of my frustration. I only knew of two times I came across wrong in MC yesterday, so that's how I knew what had angered her. However, she never told me that i had done something to anger her.
Patience has got to be one of the toughest things to do. I'm not sure for how long I'm going to be able to do this.
She came over to the house yesterday morning. We sat and drank coffee and talked. Cleared up the anger issues from counseling. She took my D14 shopping and I went to the trailer.
When I got back she came outside and we talked for a bit. I asked her at one point if there something I hadn't thought of that would bring her back home. Her answer was time and consistency. I told her I had no problem with the consistence part, but I wasn't sure how I would do on the time.
It was a constructive talk, but at one point she surprised me. She said there were times when she felt like a piece of meat to me because i would grope her. Now I know I have come out and said what I wanted to do to her, our touch her butt. However, I never groped her.
As time goes on, little pieces of what's going through her head are coming out. We need to deal with them she says, but she knows we can't change them.
We also talked about our view on finances and saving money. She was relieved to hear that we were both on the same page. That has allot to do with how she's feeling, so this was a positive in resolving the financial issues with her she said.
We then took D14 out to dinner and a movie for her birthday. It was awkward because we took two vehicles and went our separate ways after the movie but we all had fun together.
She asked if she could stay at the house next weekend since it's mothers day. She wants to take D4 to the zoo while I take D14 out on the boat. I really don't like leaving the house so I don't know what I'm going to do.
I have absolutely no idea what's going on or what to do. She came to the house yesterday and brought all her stuff in and told D14 she was here to stay.
Th previous night we took D14 to dinner and a movie for her birthday. My insisted on taking separate vehicles which set the tone of the night. After my W left my D14 said that she thought W was having fun staying where she is and just visiting us. She had said prior that she also felt W had abandoned them, which she shared with W.
I text my W yesterday to let her know the things that were going through my D head. She text me back that it was my job to man up and stand by her side and tell my D that it is more difficult on my W than she could imagine. It is has more to do with my attitude than my W actions.
I was floored by this and text her back that I've done nothing but defend her from the beginning with everyone. I said I was tired of standing up for her and it was time she owned up to the fact hat it was her actions not my attitude that was making my D feel the way she does.
Some hours later my W pulls up in the driveway and starts bringing her stuff in. I went to see what she was doing and she told me not to talk to her, so I let her be. Like I said she told my D14 that she was here to stay. My D14 picked up on my W hinting that I wouldn't let her see the kids enough so she had to do this.
My D14 has always told her that my W had a choice and staying away was hers. She would always tell D14 when she got off the phone to kiss and hug D4 for her. My D would get off the phone and tell me she hates it when she says that because she could just come and do it herself. In a nutshell, my daughter isn't stupid and she gets it more than my W thinks.
She was fake with the kids all night and made for a very uncomfortable environment. This was a very peaceful household with just the girls and I, and they enjoyed being with me. She's causing more harm than she is good.
When she went to bed last night she closed and locked our bedroom door. I knocked on the door and told her she didn't need to lock me out of my room. I grabbed some stuff and I told her that if this is how she's going to act I don't want her to come back tomorrow night.
She then tried to blame this on me by telling me I wasn't saying the right things to D14. I told her that she needed to go take a look in the mirror and stop trying to cast the blame on me. I was very firm, but not angry or argumentative. I told her not to accuse me of putting my D14 in the middle because that was the pot calling the kettle black.
If you recall she pulled my D14 in the middle when she decided to tell her months before I got home from Afghanistan. She has been bad mouthing me to D14 since last April and continues to do so till this day. I have yet to say anything negative about my W to my D14 yet.
She closed the door and locked it and I went off to the spare room. Before she closed the door she told me that I wanted her living under the same roof as me and now I have it. I told her this isn't what I wanted and that's why I didn't let her come home two weeks ago when she was going to for this same reason.
This morning before she left I asked her if she was going to keep ignoring me and she said she hadn't decided yet. She she was sacrificing part of herself in order to spend time with her children. Keep in mind she has never been shunned from the house, the invitation has been open daily.
I really don't know what to do about this new situation. It's very uncomfortable and counterproductive. We got along well and had very productive conversations. Now we don't speak, so how are we ever going to fix anything?
She's going to start forcing my hand, and I don't know what to do. She is obviously very confused, lost and detached from reality. it's amazing how she can take her own actions or inactions and put blame on others. She obviously feels guilt for something or else she wouldn't be here..
I'm glad she's here for the children, but they know something is wrong. At least before there was peace and no tension when she was around. Now all she's doing is creating tension. MC is going to be pretty interesting this week.
"It was a constructive talk, but at one point she surprised me. She said there were times when she felt like a piece of meat to me because i would grope her. Now I know I have come out and said what I wanted to do to her, our touch her butt. However, I never groped her."
You think you didn't grope her. Your point of view is yours. The important thing to remember is SHE thinks what you did was groping. Granted, they'll rewrite history to back up their position - I know my W did it hundreds of times. (and that's no exaggeration)
Ignoring you is passive aggressive. It's her trying to hurt you because she's doing something she doesn't want to do and she's blaming you for 'putting' her in that position. It's very disrespectful behavior. You didn't put a gun to her head and force her to come home.
It seems like she may be reacting to what happened in MC. Perhaps what you said about her not spending enough time with the kids hit her in her guilt spot. But she'll find some way to blame you.
"She <said> she was sacrificing part of herself in order to spend time with her children. "
Poor woman. Having to make a sacrifice in order to see her children. What is it a burden to see them? I know what she means about 'having' to move back to the house 'against her will'. But it's ridiculous.
"I really don't know what to do about this new situation. It's very uncomfortable and counterproductive. We got along well and had very productive conversations. Now we don't speak, so how are we ever going to fix anything?"
This is why being separated physically can be a good thing. It keeps this kind of tension away.
"She's going to start forcing my hand, and I don't know what to do. She is obviously very confused, lost and detached from reality. it's amazing how she can take her own actions or inactions and put blame on others. She obviously feels guilt for something or else she wouldn't be here.."
tbart, remember she can't FORCE your hand. Only you can move your hand. She can try to put pressure on you but it doesn't mean you have to react to it. I can't tell you how many times my W said, "Why don't you just leave" to me. Each time I answered, this is my house and my children too. You want out, why don't you just leave.
We lived together for a full year after she told me she wanted a D. The tension only grew and grew. The tension was from her side and not mine, but it was there nonetheless.
What should you do? Act as if her behavior doesn't bother you. She's trying to push your buttons and every time you react to it you are giving her what she wants. If she disrespects you call her on it. Other than that, ignore her behavior and continue to live your life with your kids.
If you don't absorb her negativity or react to it, she'll eat the shite sandwich she's trying to feed you.
Here's another Zen story that fits this perfectly:
The Gift of Insults
There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.
One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.
Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.
Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?"
"If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"
Should I act normal and try to speak to her or do I play the ignore game as well?
I don't think I can continue to do this. She is cordial and will speak to me when the kids are awake, but as soon as they go bed she acts like a kid and ignores me. This is pointless, and we'll never fix anything like this. She even closes and locks the bedroom door for some reason.
I'm thinking of telling her she won. It's obvious she has no desire to work on us at this time. She either needs to leave or do whatever she needs to d, because I don't deserve to be treated like this or to live like this.
I told her this morning that we needed a few minutes to speak sooner rather than later because she had one. I got into the shower and she came and asked me what I meant. I told her I wasn't going to live like this.
I said it was clear she didn't want to be with me nor did she have any intentions of fixing this. I told her I didn't like her closing the bedroom door and locking it like I was some kind of monster.
I told her she either needed to leave or do what she feels she has to do because I have too much respect for myself to live this way.
She told me I forced her to do something she wasn't ready for. I told her I never forced her to do anything. Keep in mind that I never asked her to come home, she did so from her own guilt. She told me it was up to me to shut my D15 down when she said the things she said.
i told her that's what I have been doing, but she's old enough and she's not stupid. I told her that D15 feelings were from what she sees not what she hears.
I don't know what her expectations are from me, but I'm better than to live like this. It's not fair to anyone to have her be fake. It's making me very uncomfortable, and at this point I'm ready to move in a different direction. I'm not saying I want a D, but I can't be treated like this that's for dang sure.
I know one thing, I won't be leaving. I will not have my kids see me as the one abandoning them. I welcome her back into the home, but when she's ready not when she's acting like this. It's great for D4 to have her here, but even D15 is uncomfortable.
Good tbart. You drew your boundary. Now stick to it.
It's not your job to shut your D down. Your D has a mind of her own and is allowed to express that as long as it isn't disrespectful to you or your W. If there's friction between your D and your W it's your wife's job to address it - not yours. I'm not saying you don't address it with D, but it isn't your responsibility. That lies on the shoulders of your W.
My W moved into the spare room 3 months before she told me she wanted a D. She used to treat me the same as your W. When the kids were there we were polite and cordial, but as soon as they went to bed she would retire to her room and stay in there.
Don't ignore her but don't pursue her. Act like she's a quiet roommate when you're around her. If you ignore her you're stooping to her level and giving her fuel for her fire. Be polite and cordial but don't make any attempts to engage her. You have to get to a mindset where what she's doing doesn't bother you. She'll eat her own negativity that way.
You're right on target when you say you don't deserve to be treated the way she is treating you. It's passive aggressive behavior and it's there to 'punish' you for 'making' her do something she didn't want to do. Call her on it like you did if she continues.
Keep us posted.
This boundary I drew caused her to pause and think about things. She actually took the afternoon off just to come up to our rental property I'm remodeling to talk.
She for the first time told me she doesn't want a D. Wow, where did that come from. I told her I felt unloved, unappreciated, and disrespected due to the way she's been treating me around the house.
She said she knows she's been acting inappropriately, but she was doing it because she felt I forced her back before she was ready. We cleared the air on that (I think). She said that she would stop acting like she has been. She also said she wanted to go for coffee after MC this week.
The only weird thing was that she had envisioned us dating. What she envisioned was me picking her up at the house and us going out, almost like being boyfriend and girlfriend. This is good and all, but to follow through with what she envisions, she still see's us rotating in and out of the rental property.
She has this vision so entrenched in her brain that after moving back to the house, she still wants us to live separately while we date. I find this strange since she's already back in the home. Anyway, this could change over time, but we'll see.
Hopefully things will start to be good again. It was nice to hear her finally say she doesn't want a D. That means she's backed off of her previous stance. The stance she had before I got home and we actually started talking and working on issues.
Hopefully we can continue to move in a forward direction, but I know we will hit snags along the way.
thats great tbart, sometimes they have to be slapped in the face with the reality that we dont need to tolerate this behavior.
Having said that... dont get your hopes too high up. It was advised to me to continue DBing for a little while and see where their intentions really are. I think some vets need to give you advise from this situation but I know it is so nice to hear them say they dont want a D.
Wow, where did that come from.
I'll take a stab at that question - you drew a firm boundary that had everything to do with your own self respect and it had nothing to do with anyone else. When we do this the other person can only respect that at some level. My psychiatrist once told me, when a person stops respecting you that's when they leave. Her parents were living with us at the time and he told me to throw them out. I said if I do that it will put a final nail in the coffin. He said it very well may, but at least she'll respect you.
You also showed how you had enough respect for yourself that you wouldn't tolerate being disrespected. You were willing to walk away from her because you respected yourself.
I told her I felt unloved, unappreciated, and disrespected due to the way she's been treating me around the house.
Bingo!
She also said she wanted to go for coffee after MC this week.
Wow...she just gave you what you said in a previous post you were hoping for.
The only weird thing was that she had envisioned us dating. What she envisioned was me picking her up at the house and us going out, almost like being boyfriend and girlfriend. This is good and all, but to follow through with what she envisions, she still see's us rotating in and out of the rental property.
Take it with a grain of salt. Let it go and cross that bridge if it comes. She was talking about D until yesterday telling you she didn't want one. So far, that bridge hasn't appeared.
She has this vision so entrenched in her brain that after moving back to the house, she still wants us to live separately while we date. I find this strange since she's already back in the home. Anyway, this could change over time, but we'll see.
Sounds like that Zen story I posted earlier in your thread. Go read it again.
A few posts back you were approaching 'the end' of your M, and now it has all flipped around. What seems bad might be good, and what seems good, might be bad. We can never know except with hindsight.
Keep DB'ing.
This DB stuff really works. It definitely seems counterproductive on the surface, but it can produce results.
This isn't repaired by a long shot, but my actions have caused things to head in the right direction. I took a stand, wasn't a jerk, and stood up for myself.
My W admitted to having control problems, which we knew already, and that was one of the things she was trying to work on with her C.
That's currently one of the things that's been holding this thing back. She had her mental timeline and the events she envisioned. When her timeline got screwed up, that screwed her up.
I just need to keep doing what I'm doing and hope for positive results in the end.
The only weird thing was that she had envisioned us dating.
It's weird to you, I know I got the same line. She moved out, filed for D then she wants to date
WTF Over?
This is truly a gift. She wants the emotional connection, some tension, some chasing on her part, she wants to be wooed and she wants to want you.
Tell her to meet you at x restaurant at x time. Then show up "on." You arrive second, looking good, new clothes, haircut and smelling great. Lead the conversation, really listen, talk about your day and look in her eyes. Walk her to her car and be the one who ends the conversation. Leave her wanting more. Be interesting,interested and mysterious.
You can handle it.
Cheers
I completely get the date part. It's the fact that she's already back in the house and want's to separate just so we can date. That's what I find I weird, but that has to do with the OCD controlling behavior.
Even a married couple needs to consistently date. If you think about it, the real problem is the 'dating' stopped and life became generic and mundane. Almost like Groundhog day. Then the drift happens. Then the frustration. Then the fighting because both people know something isn't right but they don't have the necessary tools to work through the problems. The issues come out, the friction continues to get worse, the parties withdraw into their own little worlds; one finally stands up and says it's done.
We fell in love by the things we did together. It didn't just happen automatically. If you stop doing those things and fertilizing the M, it's gonna turn into all weeds. At some point in time, you can't save the lawn so you opt on killing the whole thing off and planting new seeds.
The source of ALL my problems is me. No one else has control over my internal world. Period. I am responsible for it, and I'm responsible to fix the parts of myself that created it in the first place.
If things don't change inside each of those people they will end up with the same weeds again and again. Too many people look outside of themselves as the source of their problems.They think changing their external world will cure their internal strife, but the problem with a geographic is wherever you go there you are.
"You can switch seats on the Titanic, but you're still going down."
After a while those same people realize nothing really changed. Nothing changed except the scenery.
That's the problem with WAS's who think there is some golden life out there. It doesn't exist. The life is inside of us and our unhappiness is inside of us. If you don't find a way to be happy regardless of circumstances, you'll never be happy. Circumstances change from 'good' to 'bad' constantly (and I use good and bad loosely). Who wants their internal world to be controlled by outside forces?
I certainly don't. But I lived that way for so long and watched those around me do it that I thought it was a normal way to live. It's highly dysfunctional.
My world rests on my shoulders. I am my own Atlas. And you....yours.
That was deep Steady. Seriously, that is all 100% correct. That's one of the things my W and I were talking about yesterday. Her control issues led us to not do much together anymore because she didn't trust anyone with our kids.
This something she and her C are trying to work on. She's obviously let go and allowed someone other than her to watch the girls.
Steady, you were correct about the separation being easier when you're physically separated. I love that she's here, and I love that we're getting along. I hate that she says good night and goes into the other room and closes the door.
It's never easy, and may even get harder. It makes me want to go live somewhere else sometimes, but I don't want to leave my children. I don't see how this can appear to be so easy for her, because inside it's frustrating as heck for me.
This DB stuff really works. It definitely seems counterproductive on the surface, but it can produce results.
This isn't repaired by a long shot, but my actions have caused things to head in the right direction. I took a stand, wasn't a jerk, and stood up for myself.
I think there were a few things which seemed unfavorable which actually worked to your advantage. The first one was being away for a few months after it started. Although it was hard on you there wasn't daily physical interactions with your W. There's a difference between communicating through email and phone than there is in person.
The emotions can be filtered better on the phone and through email. There is more time to process before responding.
The second thing is you found this place while you were 'separated' physically. By the time you came home to the physical presence you had learned enough DB stuff to put it into play, rather than trying to do it on the fly and creating all kinds of damage.
My W admitted to having control problems, which we knew already, and that was one of the things she was trying to work on with her C.
This is good. Recognizing and owning an issue is the first step required in order to change it. This is very positive.
I just need to keep doing what I'm doing and hope for positive results in the end.
Just keep doing what you're doing and accept the result in the end knowing you did everything you could do. You have the ability to somewhat control yourself (I mean that as a general statement for every human being) but you have no control over where it all lands. There are too many variable which are completely outside of your control.
It all sounds positive. Just keep on moving forward.
I don't see how this can appear to be so easy for her, because inside it's frustrating as heck for me.
You answered yourself in this statement. The key word is APPEAR. Perhaps she is thinking it is so easy for you because it appears that way.
When we compare ourselves to someone, we are matching our INSIDES with their OUTSIDES.
Don't be fooled by appearances.
You got me again on that last one Steady. By the way, you're correct about knowing I did everything I could no matter what the outcome.
My C and I were talking about that last week. I have changed so much and feel so good about me that I know I'll be ok. Of course my desire is to repair and rebuild my M, but if I can't I will feel good about everything I've done.
I know I'm a better person today than i was before this started. Everyday I get tested by my W or some other situation. I see how much differently I handle it, and I feel pretty good. Like setting down boundaries with my W the past few days. before I would have just been an ass and not gotten my point across the right way.
Everyday brings a new test and a new challenge. I accept it and I'm always ready for it. I'll just continue to grow and improve. I hope she finds her way soon, not just for me and the kids, but for her most importantly. I've got the kids well taken care of, but they need their mom emotionally stable.
I don't plan to veer off the path. Too much positive on my part has happened for me to change course.
As far as the date thing goes. Should I wait for her to ask since it obviously needs to be on her time table?
I'm not clear about what are asking about the 'date thing'.
If you mean about you guys having date nights, I might try this:
<insert wife's name here>, I know we've talked about going on dates and I think it's a great idea. I think it will give us the opportunity to rediscover each other outside of the every day existence of being parents, workers, etc...
I imagine it would be a way to focus on us and to re-ignite our relationship by focusing on us as a couple only. I just want you to know I really want to do it, but I'm going to leave it up to you when we start. I won't initiate anything or ask you out on a date until you begin. I'll leave it up to you for the first few dates and then I'd like to be able to ask you out on dates."
This is making your wants clear. It's drawing a boundary that is clear that you want her to initiate. It also sets the tone for you then initiating after she does it a few times first.
Maybe some other feedback by others would help us in this...
Yeah that's what I meant,and that was a good answer. We had our weekly MC session today, it went well but I left frustrated. She kept her end of the bargain and we met for coffee afterward.
I told her that I no longer feared losing her because i felt that I had already done that. I said what I feared was her losing me because I felt the process already starting. I'm beginning to detach and not worry so much about her and I. We talked for a good while, but it seemed to frustrate me more, so I told her it was time for me to go.
When we got home I had to go out for a walk because I was actually pissed. I came back and told her that we needed to have the floors put in the rental next week so that I could go live there. I let her know that I could not live under the same roof with someone that doesn't want to be with me.
While I was telling her this I looked down at my phone and noticed she had text me while I was out. She said "My marriage is shattered, I put my daughter in jail. I don't know how to deal with any of it and I am ruining my whole world".
She was in the backyard balling her eyes out. She was telling me that she never expected me to come back such a changed person, and that I've done so well since I've been back. She said she's loved me for 17 1/2 years and she can't just stop.
She got the vibe from our conversation that I may cut and run. She said that no matter what I planned to do she will always care about me. She said she was broken and trying to put herself back together so we can work this out, but needed to give her time.
I told her I was trying to remain positive about us, but that I had to take everything with a grain of salt. I let her know that I can't get my hopes up too much, because she's put me on a emotional roller coaster before.
It would appear that she still loves and cares about me, but is too lost and broken herself. She really want's us to rebuild, but needs me to give her time.
I'm just unable to do it while living in the same house together. It's difficult to not be with her, but it's even harder being with her and not being with her at the same time.
It's nice to hear her tell me how she feels, but it's also sad to see her broken like this. hate this, but I'm strong enough to deal with this right now. It doesn't mean it isn't frustrating as hell, but I can deal with this and take care of life.
It was kind of interesting to hear one thing from her. For years she seemed to never be jealous or worried about me cheating on her. When she told her friends how I was acting early on, they all said it sounded like I was cheating on her. For the record I never have nor would I ever do that.
She said she started thinking about it and wondered if I have. She went to co-workers and people I was deployed with last time and asked if I had or was. Of course they told her no, and she said she felt stupid for listening to others and even more stupid for asking about it.
I just found that one interesting because she has never appeared to worry about that one with me. It was kind of nice that she did in fact feel jealousy towards me.
All positive signs tbart. You stuck reality in her face and she actually looked at it. You're doing great man. I'd love to see you become one of the few people who actually save their marriage here. That would definitely make my day.
Now sit back and see what happens. Don't put any more pressure on her. It's obvious she knows where she is - broken and confused - and she sees what she is/has done.
It's great she is struggling that she loves you so much. It takes a lot of time for them to balance out in something like this. How old are you two? Do you think it's a midlife crisis mixed in here?
Just keep doing what you're doing. Stand up and take care of yourself. Keep DB'ing.
To answer your question I'm 38 and she's 37. There could be a little bit of MLC mixed in there. She doesn't really question things she wants to do, but she has brought up that she expected we'd further along at this point in our marriage.
My w called before she came home and asked what I was doing tonight? I had planned on taking myself to a movie, but i asked what she had in mind. She asked if I was interested in going out for a few drinks and shoot some pool after D4 went to bed.
She said I had done nothing but remodel the rental and take care of the girls since I've been home and deserved to go out for some drinks.
I was really surprised and happy about this at the same time. So we're going out together tonight for the first step in this long get to know each other process. I'll let you know how it goes.
We went out together and had a really good time. Nothing out of the ordinary, just had a good time with each other.
The goof ball just text me from the other room while we're trying to go to sleep that if she wasn't so tired we could have stayed longer. She said it was a good night and coffee in the morning. Remember we're in the same house, but separate rooms and she's texting me this. She said I deserved a night out.
Today I took D15 and a few of her friends out on the boat. It was nice to see her have a good time, and it was fun and relaxing for me. My W took D4 to the zoo. D4 had a good time, but preferred to go boating.
After dinner I took myself to the movies. I'm pretty sure that's the first time since we've been married that I went off and went to the movies alone.
So it was a relaxing fun filled day for me. Spent it with my daughter and with myself.
Good for you tbart. The texting from the other room is flirting. Let the process move at its own pace. Don't push it. Pretend you guys just first met. When it was then I bet you weren't pushing anything along, but rather taking the ride and enjoying it. You have to let go of the fact you guys have a history together and put your mindframe on one of just meeting someone and dating/courting.
Good you're having fun. Enjoy the ride. You never know when the ride will end and you'll be in a pine box. So each day counts in and of itself.
Steady, I'm having a problem forgetting that her and I had a history together. Every time I see her, I see the woman I love and am madly attracted to. It's making it impossible to live in the same house as her.
All I wanted to do yesterday whenever I saw her was touch her, and it was hard as hell not to. It's getting so frustrated that I told her I would be out by the weekend. I just can't live under the same roof with someone who doesn't feel the same as I do.
We're both uncomfortable for different reasons. She's uncomfortable because she doesn't want me. I'm uncomfortable because I unfortunately still want her. The only way for me to move forward and detach from her is to be away from her. I cant pretend to be a family when we aren't.
I like the way things have been going, but there's still something preventing us from moving any farther forward. I've been home for a month, and she says she hasn't had a chance to think about and process things with us.
It's already been a month and she hasn't had a chance? I even let her stay away for 3 weeks. How is she possibly going to find the time now that she's back home? It's nice to see how much of a priority our M is to her.
It's all a bit confusing to me as well as it is to her. i want this to work out, and I'm trying to be patient. The 6 months I was away counts for me, but it doesn't count for her.
All I wanted to do yesterday whenever I saw her was touch her, and it was hard as hell not to. It's getting so frustrated that I told her I would be out by the weekend. I just can't live under the same roof with someone who doesn't feel the same as I do.
I know the feeling man. My sitch has turned for the worse and I still feel this way. I see her and I want to touch her or hug her. But the things she has done to me keep me from doing it. What do you do when there is absolutely nothing you can do, to make it better?
You never know what is going on in her head, she may say one thing like I haven't been able to process our situation but she might just be doing that all the time and is confused. Unfortunately nothing will ever be clear cut. You sound like you are doing good though Tbart, keep your head up, i'm praying for you.
Aces
Someone please stop me if you think I'm not thinking clearly.
Yes, my W and I have been getting along well since I've been home, but I'm very angry, frustrated and confused. I leave the house every morning the last few days wanting to pummel something because of these feelings.
We've had productive MC and talks, but sometimes we stop the talk because she's tired and wants to resume later. Sometimes later never comes or it's way later. She has expressed her desire to not D, but I don't know if it's the concept she doesn't want or if it's because she still wants to be with me.
It's obviously been very hard living under the same roof during this process because I still want her, but it appears she doesn't want me. She keeps telling me she hasn't had time to think about or process us. I've been home for 4 weeks, 3 of which she was at her friends. You think she would have thought about us during that time, but I guess we're not a priority.
She keeps telling me that she has a full plate. I was thinking of letting her go to lessen that full plate. I was going to tell her I'm going to move out (for now) so I can get a life and detach from her ( I cant do it living with her).
After that time we can split the bills and she can move and see what life on her own is really like. I really need to be on my own for a few weeks to clear my mind. I just can't keep doing this to myself.
I feel like I'm complicating matters for her by hanging on to something that just isn't there.
Is this just frustration talking or am I on to something that I really need?
tbart,
I've been following you thread. I'm not sure what the best thing for you to do as far as moving out. It seems like the advice given by people here is to remain in your house. I understand if you think that you need time away for yourself.
I wanted to make a comment about what your W told you that she hasn't had time to think about the two of you yet. I don't buy that at all. I think she's just telling you this so that you don't smother her wanting to talk more about your M. I think this is her way of giving herself space so that you're not breathing down her neck about it. I would have to believe that she has been thinking about the M. I know the LBS thinks about the M a lot and I think the WAS also thinks about the M more than they lead on or want you to know. Just my 2 cents.
I'm very angry, frustrated and confused.
Very understandable. The first phase in reconciliation is getting rid of all the negative feelings. Women are very in tune with feelings and I bet your W feels your tension.
Why are you so angry and frustrated? Is it because you are ready for things to get moving? If so, then let it go - no expectations.
We've had productive MC and talks, but sometimes we stop the talk because she's tired and wants to resume later. Sometimes later never comes or it's way later. She has expressed her desire to not D, but I don't know if it's the concept she doesn't want or if it's because she still wants to be with me.
If something is bothering you it is your responsibility to bring it up.
She keeps telling me that she has a full plate.
Ask her, "How can I help you with that?"
Exercise (GAL activity) is a great way to lessen the stress in your life.
Cheers
Coach,
Can you check back with my thread? I had posted a question to you.
Thanks. Sorry for the hijack tbart.
I'm angry and frustrated because she seems to say one thing and acts another. It's not like she's mean to me or anything. We get along quite well, but it just seems like there should be more. What more I really don't know.
It should be easy for her to concentrate on her or us. I have taken on all responsibilities since I've been home. I've been remodeling the rental property and taking on all things dealing with the kids.
I ask her all the time what I can do to help her. She always says time and consistency as the answer.
She always says time and consistency as the answer.
Hey tbart, you are are very much alike. I too had/still have a problem with having zero expectations and feeling like my H should be doing more... it's very frustrating, I know. I also see you have alot of anger and resentment. In order for you to move past this and have a real shot at this M, you need to allow yourself to feel those feelings and let go of those feelings in order to move on with your M.
What your W said is right, she needs time (she, I'm sure is still very confused) and she needs consistency, she needs to be sure that this is for real and that you're going to go back to where you were before.
Hugs to you. I know how stressful this is. Go out there and GAL and find a way to keep yourself and your mind occupied.
TBart
Sorry to butt in on this as I don't know your whole sitch. I can tell you this from mine, though, and I have witnessed slow but positive results.
I can put it best like this. When she says time and consistency (if she's like my W)she means that SHE needs time and YOU need consistency. Also (again if anything like my W) from her perspective this will be measured in months, not weeks.
Patience (and consistency).
Also (again if anything like my W) from her perspective this will be measured in months, not weeks.
And dog years to you.
Coach...you hit the nail on the head with that analogy! It does seem like dog years.
I know it will take longer than I want it too. I just see things going so well so soon and I guess I expected different results.
i have not and will not waver on the consistency. That's not a problem because this is who I am now, but the time part is very difficult.
I hope by leaving the house and the situation for awhile, I'll have an easier time giving her what she needs.
All the progress that's been made since I've returned home now appears gone. Last night we had a talk, and all the I don't want a D from my W has turned back into she's undecided.
We both agree it's been awkward living in the same house together, and that we've both been waling on egg shells. Neither of us want to live that way because it's far too uncomfortable.
The MC had asked us to put a time frame on living apart. She's unable to do that because she doesn't know how long it will be or if we will even be together again.
When we got on the subject of communication she said something that really confused me. She said there were times in our marriage that I would do things a certain way thinking that's what she wanted. She told me that she actually wanted me to do something else, or do what I was doing differently. I asked her why she never told me she wanted it differently. She said that I should have asked her.
If I'm doing something and not receiving a negative response, shouldn't I then feel what I'm doing is correct. Why would I ask about something that appears to be pleasing to her? As you can see I I'm fighting an uphill battle with her.
There was a co-friend of ours that my W was confiding in throughout this entire process while I was gone. My W would tell her what her plans were. She would bash me and do all sorts of negative things. Towards the end the friend had enough and let me in on some things.
We spoke very little, but it was towards the end of my deployment. My W has said that me and this person were talking the entire time and that I was being filled on things. I told her we weren't talking. Well I left my Facebook open and my W read my messages. She saw on exchange between me and the friend, so now I'm a liar.
How does 4 weeks of progress back pedal so quickly? On top of that I asked her yesterday if she had planned on us dating other people during this process. She said she absolutely would not, but I could if I wanted to. This floored me because I was expecting her to say no about either of us.
I have no intentions of dating anyone other than her, and that's what I told her. The fact that she's now willing to let me date other people really sends me a negative signal. She would never share me with anyone else before.
I made it very clear that if either of us dated it was a deal breaker, she told me not to do it then, but she never said she doesn't want me to date.
All the progress was in a forward direction, now I feel like we're back at square one again.
tbart the problem is you're pushing and she's moving back. I understand the frustrations you are having. But your relentless thinking about how things should be further along is what is pushing her away from you.
This desire to accelerate things is creating a needy projection from you and she feels that. I imagine it's also making her feel smothered.
You have to level out with that. You have to let go of her and your expectations.
Steady you're 100% correct on that one. As a matter of fact I told her that same thing this morning and asked her if I was correct. She agreed that mt expectations and reality are two different things.
Since she had been commenting so much how well things had been going or good of a time we had together that I expected different things.
We have in fact been making progress, and I hope we will be able to make progress again once I back off.
I go back to work Monday finally, so hopefully that will occupy my time. Also the rental property is ready, so I guess we'll start our rotation. i really don't want to live apart, but it's clear that is the only way we can fix this. Living under the same roof is just too uncomfortable for the two of us.
This morning during our conversation that the MC told us to have twice a week, I got the impression things have truly regressed.
I had asked her if we were getting a D and she said she was undecided but she talked like we were. I later asked her if we were rebuilding and she said yes. Not sure which one it is at this point.
Things have been going the same, but there has been some miscommunication going on. Allot of assuming being done on each others part.
She also told me that she filed for a legal separation, which I had told you guys before. However when I spoke to an attorney he told me there was no such thing in Louisiana. When I told my W that this morning, she said well I guess I filed for a D then.
I was absolutely floored by this because I had no idea this entire time. The MC even stated the other night that at least nothing had been filed yet, and my W didn't say otherwise.
On top of that I asked her why I hadn't been served, and she said that she thought I had. As a matter of fact our first court date is supposed to be this month.
I realize she filed before I returned home, but how do you not know you filed for a D instead of a S? I really have no idea where this is headed at this point. She says things are going well except our conversations seem to go round and round. We never seem to get the other ones point.
She continuously acknowledges the incredible changes or corrections that I've made with myself. She also says that's the reason for her indecision and confusion, but she still doesn't feel they're real.
She says she feels she needs to continue to be distant and cold,or hold the D paperwork over my head to keep the changes going.
Man it sounds like she does not know what she wants.
Havent been here for a while (had my own problems LOL) so Im not up in your sitch. Thought things were going well when you came home.
I would just leave her alone to figure out what she wants. Ball is in her court. Let her decide what she wants to do with it.
Unfortunately the ball is all in her court. The two choices I have are to leave the house and be able to pick up my children from daycare and see them everyday or she leaves the house and the children go with her.
The court hearing this month that I just found out about is to discuss custody and child support. She wants joint and will get it because I can't afford an attorney.
She told me tonight her objective is to go through with the D, since she already paid and filed, but still try to reconcile. In Louisiana it's 1 year before a D is final,so there's still time. However, I'm so angry and hurt right now that she would have to prove allot to me for me to want to stay with her.
I'm really confused because things have really been going well. I unfortunately will probably start to act like a jerk towards her because I'm so pissed right now.
She's holding absolutely every one of the cards right now, and I have no choice but to do what she wants.
too much relationship talk,
too much pursuing on your part,
too much neediness and insecurity being displayed on your part,
too much letting her call the shots ("are we getting a divorce?", you ask the question "we" but only one of you is deciding, do you notice that?)
- let her leave the house,
she wants joint custody,
that means you'll have the kid half of the time,
let her live with the reality of her decisions,
stop trying to prove your worth to her,
I'm sure I told you that a long time ago,
it actually does the opposite and look at the great results you've achieved thus far (I'm kidding, things obviously don't sound too great)
Chin up bro, you can handle this, by getting a handle on you.
Don't turn into a jerk, or a prick or an a$$hole,
you're better than that - but you don't have to kiss her a$$ either, have some respect for yourself.
Cat Toy. LOL
If you want to be a "cat toy" you need to act like a "cat toy."
happy, go-lucky, happy-go-lucky, every thing's great, whatever you want dear, I will be fine in fact I will THRIVE. good. good. good.
RELATIONSHIP TALK. right off the top. bad idea. nothing good comes out of relationship talk. never has. never will. even if you walk away feeling good from one, how do you know they weren't lying to shut you up. Two different ways of looking at it: I'm in a relationship. Good? Bad? Doesn't matter. It is what it is and people are different and people change. And I am happy.
Or, Relationship? What relationship? oh, the bad news, the arguing, the nit-picking, the not getting along. Yeah. I really don't need to think about it. It brings me down and I need to concentrate on myself for a while. There are other ways of looking at relationships, I guess, but when things are working you never talk about them. Why make matters worse by hashing out past hurts and disagreeing.
ANGER. Anger is a trait of the desperate. If you ever get a chance to watch people fight, study the person who is losing. Watch when they are beat. Typically they get angry, and get hit hard again, then they become desperate. They start making bad decisions, acting outside of their norm and ultimately lose. Relationships are they same way. Just breathe, relax, be light, float and know yourself.
BE HAPPY. People are attracted to happy, care-free, confident and interesting people. Even your wife. If you are depressed, angry, talking about things that disinterest and depress the other person, they leave. They will walk right out on you. Who wants to be in that situation? It a big wild interesting world out there. If its not working for you, you don't need to confine yourself to a hole. Don't.
Now on being a cat toy. Robs a cat toy. lmao. I enjoy being a cat toy too. Watch kittens play. Happy, care-free, nothings tying them down, climbing the curtains, chasing balls or a feather, attracting other cats. As soon as one is having a good time, they all seem to wake up from under the sunlight blasting through the window, and frolic. And all it took was having a good time. People are the same way.
Now on being a cat toy. Robs a cat toy. lmao. I enjoy being a cat toy too. Watch kittens play. Happy, care-free, nothings tying them down, climbing the curtains, chasing balls or a feather, attracting other cats. As soon as one is having a good time, they all seem to wake up from under the sunlight blasting through the window, and frolic. And all it took was having a good time. People are the same way.
Maybe I should change my name to cat toy "X"?
I still haven't decided if I'm the drug free version cat toy or the "dangerous" one loaded with cat nip ;-)
Either, I will not be "chasing balls" anytime soon, thank you very much Mr.McQueen!
I did not initiate this R talk, she did. I have been positive and happy and then she threw the curve ball at me.
I tried to call an attorney today, which she doesn't feel we need because she thinks we'll mutually agree on all of this. There's like 9 million D attorney's in the phone book, and the first on I call can't talk to me because she already has.
When we spoke on the phone I asked her who else she contacted so I knew who to avoid. She told me to sit back and think about this before I do anything. She says I'm just angry and hurt and I don't need to do something unnecessary. WOW!
She said we can work this out. I asked her what she meant that we could work out, the D conditions or the M? She said both, she said she wanted to try and repair the M, but wanted to keep the D proceedings in place just in case we can't reconcile.
She said all she's asked for is time and consistency and she doesn't feel we can do that physically living together. I agree 100%, but I told her I never asked her to come home. She made the decision to come back based on the kids. Now she's going to leave them again.
This woman is confusing the crap out of me, and I don't know how much of this I can handle. I'm beginning to sway to the side of undecided.
chasing mice.
but i havent seen a mouse in my house, so it didnt cross my mind...
maybe the cat is eating them in the middle of the night,
cat toy! http://www.gallery-of-art-galleries.com/Dream%20of%20Picasso%27s%20Cat.htm
"Pablo Picasso was never called an ahole"
that pic is f_cked up!
I did not initiate this R talk, she did. I have been positive and happy and then she threw the curve ball at me.
I tried to call an attorney today, which she doesn't feel we need because she thinks we'll mutually agree on all of this. There's like 9 million D attorney's in the phone book, and the first on I call can't talk to me because she already has.
When we spoke on the phone I asked her who else she contacted so I knew who to avoid. She told me to sit back and think about this before I do anything. She says I'm just angry and hurt and I don't need to do something unnecessary. WOW!
She said we can work this out. I asked her what she meant that we could work out, the D conditions or the M? She said both, she said she wanted to try and repair the M, but wanted to keep the D proceedings in place just in case we can't reconcile.
She said all she's asked for is time and consistency and she doesn't feel we can do that physically living together. I agree 100%, but I told her I never asked her to come home. She made the decision to come back based on the kids. Now she's going to leave them again.
This woman is confusing the crap out of me, and I don't know how much of this I can handle. I'm beginning to sway to the side of undecided.
that pic is f_cked up!
I did not initiate this R talk, she did. I have been positive and happy and then she threw the curve ball at me.
I tried to call an attorney today, which she doesn't feel we need because she thinks we'll mutually agree on all of this. There's like 9 million D attorney's in the phone book, and the first on I call can't talk to me because she already has.
When we spoke on the phone I asked her who else she contacted so I knew who to avoid. She told me to sit back and think about this before I do anything. She says I'm just angry and hurt and I don't need to do something unnecessary. WOW!
She's getting prepared for a divorce and taking care of herself but she feels that you don't need to take care of yourself. Maybe she should have sat back and thought about this before she did anything because it only makes sense for you to talk to a lawyer if she has done so already, considering that she's filed for divorce, I would think it would be a necessity at this point.
She said we can work this out. I asked her what she meant that we could work out, the D conditions or the M? She said both, she said she wanted to try and repair the M, but wanted to keep the D proceedings in place just in case we can't reconcile.
Actions speak louder than words.
There is nothing wrong with you being honest, it's hard to trust her considering the legal action she has taken, someone who wants to work on their marriage, doesn't file for divorce first. They file for divorce after attempting to work on the marriage and failing. She's putting the cart before the horse and it doesn't make sense so don't feel bad that she's confusing you. Tell her, "wife, you are confusing me with your actions, you said that you want to work on repairing the marriage but you have filed for divorce already, this does not make sense to me or anyone else I've spoken to. If you want to work on the marriage, put the divorce on hold, there is no stopping you from speaking to your lawyer and getting him to stop what you've done so far. That would convince me that you are serious about working on the marriage otherwise all I can assume is that you are serious about getting a divorce because that is the action you have taken and shown and if that's what you want, I'll respect your wishes and won't stop you from filing and moving on with your life and I'll do the same at my end."
She said all she's asked for is time and consistency and she doesn't feel we can do that physically living together. I agree 100%, but I told her I never asked her to come home. She made the decision to come back based on the kids. Now she's going to leave them again.
This woman is confusing the crap out of me, and I don't know how much of this I can handle. I'm beginning to sway to the side of undecided.
Time and consistency are things that you BOTH need, not just her, please remember that. Consistency like coming home and then leaving again and then wanting to come home again another time possibly. Respect her wishes to not live at the home, tell her you don't want her to be somewhere she doesn't want to be. As for the lawyer, you just want to protect your interests and prepare for a possible divorce. If a divorce has been filed, you will be served with papers eventually, you will need a lawyer to read the papers and know what to expect. This is the fair and responsible thing to do for you and also for your children.
Her actions thus far don't inspire any trust.
When the onus of responsibility is on you for every action and effort in repairing this marriage, you will fail eventually and not because everything is your fault, just because that is a lot of responsibility for one person to shoulder on their own. Every move you make is being scrutinized by your wife, you're under the microscope, did you do this ok today? how about tomorrow? and what happens dare you screw up and possibly fart in her general direction? It's not a good life walking on eggshells around a spouse that is determined to leave you and making sure you are perfect - no one is perfect. You accept that she is not perfect and she should accept that you are not perfect, there is always room for improvement from everyone, including your wife. I just notice that she is dictating every move and every outcome currently in your situation, feeling powerless to do anything will make you frustrated, scared, cornered, unprotected, etc. In that environment even when you do the right thing you will do the wrong thing if you understand what I mean.
This won't be fun.
What changes have you requested her to make?
You're allowed to ask.
Don't be afraid.
I'm sure she has mentioned what you have done wrong and where you have failed in your relationship together. Have you asked her what changes she will be working on?
Well you could always make her choose:
1 Either work on repairing the marriage.
2.Go through with the divorce.
Her crap makes no sense. It's kind of like - Look I know I'm dating this other guy. But I want to repair our marriage. I'm going to keep dating this other guy just in case it doesn't work out between us. WTF??
I say F that. Stand up. Make her choose. How the hell are you going to work on a M while you're going through a D? I mean come on.
Either she's playing you because she thinks she has to somehow soothe you as she goes through this divorce, or she really has something loose inside her head. The first feeling I get is the day my W told me she didn't want to do this anymore.
She said she saw a lawyer and she wants to get legally separated. Then she added - it doesn't mean we're going to get divorced. My L said a lot of people get back together.
Our MC looked at her and said - don't jerk his chain. If you want to leave this marriage be straight up about it. Don't play him as if it's something else. At that point my W said, I don't want to be married to you anymore.
As scary as it is in your position, with what I know now, I would make her choose. Tell her you have enough self respect not to play what you think is a game.
Maybe others will chime in here.
By the way - GET AN ATTORNEY.
My W wanted to take me to the cleaners and I almost did it - until I saw a lawyer. Then it all changed.
tbart, if you don't need a L, why does she have one?
By the way - GET AN ATTORNEY.
My W wanted to take me to the cleaners and I almost did it - until I saw a lawyer. Then it all changed.
tbart, if you don't need a L, why does she have one?
I was asking myself the same question.
I went and spoke to an attorney today. he pulled up the file and she isn't asking for anything other than joint custody and child support, so no surprises.
He's inexpensive as long as we keep this uncontested which I believe we can if we go through with this.
Last night we were talking about custody options. I had asked about selling the house sometime during our conversation. She said no because what if two months from now we decide to get back together? If that happens we need our home for all of us to live in. When I asked about the 2 months, she said it was just a number she threw out. It could be less, it could be more.
I can't wait until we physically S again, because I'm tired of talking about this. Once we S, she will get her time and space she's been asking for. This will give me a chance to GAL, and for her to decide what she wants to do.
She said if should decide to date or have sex with someone else to please not tell her. I'm not sure where that came from, but I let her know my plan was to wait until we have made a decision before that would occur.
A positive step in the right direction. She handed me a copy of the D papers because I still haven't been served.
I told her that me and my attorney had already obtained a copy and seen it. I told her we had three options to go from here.
One is to proceed with what she filed. Two is to drop the D all together, and three is to keep the D filed but drop the custody hearing from the docket until we decide for sure we're going to get a D.
To my amazement she agreed to drop the custody and child support hearing from the docket. She will give us a certain number of months to see what we can do.
We plan to physically separate with me going to the rental 4 days and her 3, the following week we'll go 3for me and 4 for her. That way it gives us a chance to have the weekend for ourselves every other week. I get to pick up my D4 from daycare everyday, so I 'll get to see my girls daily. If it doesn't become too uncomfortable, I can even wait until D4 goes to bed before I leave.
She also plans to schedule a date night once a week minimum for us to get to know each other again. After an undetermined amount of time we'll see how things have or haven't progressed and go from there.
This is all I could have asked for at this point. Us not physically living under the same roof should alleviate the tension and allow us to focus on other things.
Does this sound to good to be true or is it really a positive step? There have been too many ups and downs,and I'm sure there will be many more before this is over.
She repeated once again that she was 100% D until I got home and she saw how much I had changed. She said she wanted to let me know that this was a positive thing. Again, she just doesn't trust that the changes are real which is fair.
I truly believe that it will be easier and our future will become much clearer once we physically separate. We seem to talk about the R too much living together. When she was living out of the house for those 3 weeks things were much better.
tbart, just my opinion but I think it's a positive step. I see three positives that jump out. One is she agreed to drop the custody part. Two, it was HER idea to schedule a date night. That's very good. Three, she has acknowledged changes in you. Seems to me like she just needs to know your changes are real and consistent. You have a great opportunity here. Make the most of it. Good luck!
Either I don't have much updates or all my DB friends have gone.
Once we came to the decision on the D proceedings things have calmed down. We're back to getting along and talking (casual chit chat).
Yesterday we had another productive MC session, and then went to dinner together afterwards. My W was also very happy that the two of us we're able to agree on something. The agreeing was the S arrangement and how we're going to handle the kids. We seemed to really enjoy each others company.
My IC told me that she commended us both for doing what we've doing. To both be going to IC and MC is a big deal. She also told me that even though we seem to talk about the R an awful lot, it's wonderful that we're talking. She likes the fact that we're able to talk.
Today we're going up to put some of the finishing touches on our rental property. After that we'll start our rotation process and give each other some much needed space.
That's where my situation is right now.
Sorry tbart. I've not been here in a few days - definitely didn't forget about you. I had the kids this weekend and didn't fire up my computer at all.
Now my take on it all...
Drop all notions and guessing about what's positive and what's negative. This is how we get all wrapped around the axle.
Just re-read your thread from the beginning and you'll see what I'm talking about. When things 'appear' (and I use appear very loosely because it's our interpretation of how now will affect the future that creates the appearance) to be going our way we get up. When they 'appear' to be going opposite of where we think it should go, then we go down.
Read the Zen story I posted a bit back in this thread. You have to keep that in the forefront of your mind.
Otherwise, she will say or do something which you'll interpret as a backslide or reversal and start to panic. Again, just read back and count how many times you were upset that things appeared to be going poorly.
Now look where you are.
We are always deceived by appearances. Embrace anything that happens with the full knowledge you have no idea where anything is going. It's our need to control people and our environment which cause us to compulsively try to guess the future. It's impossible. I've never met anyone who could do it. They may have guessed correctly sometimes, but I'll bet good money they were wrong most of the time.
Now, with that being said. Focus on you and the kids. Your mind will start to wonder what she's doing and thinking while she is in the rental and you are at home. You will have a desire to snoop or to sit and ruminate trying to figure out where everything is going.
It's going where it's going, and you won't know what that is until you get there.
Keep doing what you're doing .... except for anything you may be doing 'wrong'...
(That last line was a joke)
I've been pretty busy, and no real changes to the situation. This was my weekend at the house with my daughters, so I've been making the best of it.
We went to a crawfish boil Saturday and spent the day on the river with good friends. This is the first time since I've returned that I've been able to spend time with friends and forget about everything, and it was great.
I'm actually enjoying myself these days. I'm also better able to see life without my w if it should come to that. When she's gone, like she has been for the entire 4 day weekend, it doesn't bother me.
I'm not saying I don't want things to work out, but I'm finally for the first time truly starting to detach. I find that it's definitely much easier when you can finally do that.
I have realized that my W really isn't the same person right now. it seems she's lost and I'm not. She used t be allot of fun to be around, and she's really not anymore. I realized that throughout this weekend.
I truly hope she can find her way out if this fog she has herself in, but I know with 100% certainty that I'll be fine no matter what the outcome.
I truly hope she can find her way out if this fog she has herself in, but I know with 100% certainty that I'll be fine no matter what the outcome.
You will be further along detaching when you stop worrying about what she does or doesn't do. Everybody has to find their own path, and while you can empathize with people who are stuggling more than others to find the path, we are all finding our own path in life.
Find your own path.
I want her to find her way out the fog for herself. It's not for me anymore, because I truly am moving forward.
tbart, you hit the nail on the head. They aren't the same person. They are lost in their own world trying to make sense.
I spoke to a friend of mine the other evening and he asked, "What happened to the woman you married? She used to be sweet and kind and a lot of fun." I told him I didn't even recognize her anymore. She has become those things I don't want in a R and it's sad.
But like Timeheals has said, they have their own path to walk. We can wish them the best, but ultimately they have to find their own way on the road they are on.
One other thing on detaching - I just realized our anniversary would have been on the 25th and it didn't come to me till this morning. I laughed because in the past I would have known the day without a doubt. Today, didn't even remember it - so I know I'm detaching even more.
Glad to hear you're doing ok.
well she came home last Monday and completely brought the vibe down. I did fall pretty bad while i was wakeboarding and ended up with a concussion and whiplash. she came in heard I was hurt, and asked if anything happened to the girls. She didn't come in and say hi how are you or anything, and then went straight into tearing into me over finances.
I was already starting to feel detachment as I explained earlier, so this obviously didn't help things. She went through her rant and after awhile we went outside and talked.
Keep in mind she had been staying at the rental all weekend and it's been just me and the girls. The weekend was very fun and peaceful. I obviously wasn't to thrilled with the behavior she was exhibiting.
We went outside and talked and I let her know what i had been thinking since I've moved. I let her know that I was starting to not care how this ended. If we stay together that's great, but if we don't I'm fine with that also.
I told her that for the first time I could actually see my life without her. I let her know that i knew i would live a long and happy life if this didn't work out, and that I thought she would one day regret it.
I told her that I was done being treated like crap by her and that i didn't deserve the way she was treating me because I wasn't treating her that way.
She sat there and listened to me while she cried, and she said she didn't want to miss out on an opportunity (meaning me). However, she still didn't know what she wanted to do.
As I was leaving to go back to where i was staying she grabbed me and hugged me. she cried while she was hugging me and said she was sorry for not knowing what she wanted. i told her she needed to figure it out.
the next day i started receiving emails from her at work. she was telling me how sorry she was for treating me the way she does. She said that the way she's been treating me is one of the reasons she's wanted divorce. she also want's me to come to the house Saturday so we can talk about things. She says we can talk while she cleans so she can use the chemicals as an excuse for her crying.
She sent me another email saying she wanted to get together with me Friday for a date. she wanted to come up to my place bring some food and watch a movie. she's also been nice to me all week, and has initiated a hug everytime I've left.
She came by my place yesterday for our date night. It was nice, nothing spectacular. We ate, played cards, chatted for a bit and then she left. I would have liked more, but at this point don't expect anything. I guess Friday's are going to be our regular date night now.
I'd like to be excited about these date nights, but it's like going out with a friend. now I'm getting ready to go down to the house and do laundry and have our talk.
I'm just tired of this roller coaster ride. just as I'm starting to detach she sucks me back in. However, unlike times in the past I have no expectations. I just don't how to feel about this anymore, nor do I know how long I can do this.
My C asked me the other night how do I know when to give up, and I really don't know the answer. I told the MC that I was frustrated and just wanted to throw my arms up and give up. I told my W she was giving me nothing to hang on to. That's when the hugging and stuff started to happen.
i just don't want her to keep making me feel like I'm just a friend, even though that's basically all I am. i know I deserve better than this, and right now she's not making me happy. I almost feel uncomfortable around her. Things seem more forced than natural.
she said that the way she's been treating me is one of the reasons she's wanted divorce
Does this make sense on some other planet? She is treating you like crap because she wants a divorce and doesn't respect you. It's not the other way around.
The sheer audacity of folks who rationalize such behavior is a miracle to behold.
She said if I should decide to date or have sex with someone else to please not tell her. I'm not sure where that came from, but I let her know my plan was to wait until we have made a decision before that would occur.
I'll tell you where that came from but you're not going to like hearing my answer, sorry bro, she's projecting her own thoughts on to you to make herself feel less guilty about what she's done. This happens too many times in every other situation on these boards for it to be coincidental.
Now you know.
We plan to physically separate with me going to the rental 4 days and her 3, the following week we'll go 3for me and 4 for her. That way it gives us a chance to have the weekend for ourselves every other week. I get to pick up my D4 from daycare everyday, so I 'll get to see my girls daily. If it doesn't become too uncomfortable, I can even wait until D4 goes to bed before I leave.
Why?
Why can't you just live at the home and she continues to live at the rental?
In the end, if you guys do end up divorcing, you won't be swapping living locations, it's really an inefficient, childish, immature thing to do, swap living locations - this is being done for what reason?
You are making things to easy on her.
There are consequences for the decisions we make.
She has consequences for the decisions she chose to make.
Your job isn't to make life easier for her when she makes that decision. You were still committed to her, you didn't want your marriage to end, she did. Making that decision, she has to deal with what happens as a result of that decision.
Think about this before proceeding with the living arrangements swap.
Does this sound to good to be true or is it really a positive step? There have been too many ups and downs,and I'm sure there will be many more before this is over.
She repeated once again that she was 100% D until I got home and she saw how much I had changed. She said she wanted to let me know that this was a positive thing. Again, she just doesn't trust that the changes are real which is fair.
I truly believe that it will be easier and our future will become much clearer once we physically separate. We seem to talk about the R too much living together. When she was living out of the house for those 3 weeks things were much better.
It is too good to be true.
I've been pretty busy, and no real changes to the situation. This was my weekend at the house with my daughters, so I've been making the best of it.
We went to a crawfish boil Saturday and spent the day on the river with good friends. This is the first time since I've returned that I've been able to spend time with friends and forget about everything, and it was great.
I'm actually enjoying myself these days. I'm also better able to see life without my w if it should come to that. When she's gone, like she has been for the entire 4 day weekend, it doesn't bother me.
I'm not saying I don't want things to work out, but I'm finally for the first time truly starting to detach. I find that it's definitely much easier when you can finally do that.
I have realized that my W really isn't the same person right now. it seems she's lost and I'm not. She used t be allot of fun to be around, and she's really not anymore. I realized that throughout this weekend.
I truly hope she can find her way out if this fog she has herself in, but I know with 100% certainty that I'll be fine no matter what the outcome.
Getting a life,
detaching,
positive mental attitude,
keep it up, these are all good things.
well she came home last Monday and completely brought the vibe down. I did fall pretty bad while i was wakeboarding and ended up with a concussion and whiplash. she came in heard I was hurt, and asked if anything happened to the girls. She didn't come in and say hi how are you or anything, and then went straight into tearing into me over finances.
She crossed a boundary and you let her.
Tell her that while you guys are separated she should call before coming over unannounced. Second, you were physically hurt and instead of asking how you were she was more concerned about the finances - this is your red flag on the play, she doesn't care anymore bro: she filed for divorce, didn't want you to get lawyers involved because she wants to run the show and take you to the cleaners, first lawyer you call is someone she spoke to already, she doesn't want to live with you, she doesn't try very hard, she argues, she tells you that if you do start dating not to tell her about it (that should tell you that she's already done something) she harasses you on the finances, doesn't care about your physical well-being either now while you're at home or while you were serving your country, makes you jump through every f@#king hoop there is and you do it hopefully waiting for the day that she finally accepts you into her heart again because now you're "perfect".
Wake up.
as for the date on friday which I'm assuming was yesterday,
next time she picks a day for the date, you tell her that you had already planned to go out that night and that she could pick another night.
Anything that is too easy has no value attached to it (ie. YOU)
as for your "DB friends leaving you", we were always here,
for myself, I just couldn't keep responding with the same advice if you were going to keep ignoring it to do your own thing.
You needed time to open up your eyes and see what was really happening.
I'm not so sure he's ignoring the advice he's being given.
He's doing the best he can under the circumstances he finds himself under. I think standing up like you did the other day and speaking your mind about how her treatment of you is unacceptable was a strong statement.
Take a look at the dynamics. You pull away and she follows. Like I read somewhere here, a person can't chase something that's not moving away.
You've been doing the chasing. Maybe now it's time for you to do more of the 'leaving'. But you can't keep 'leaving' just to solicit a certain response from your W. That's an attempt at control and manipulation and I find that it usually backfires. Just keep getting a life for yourself, don't get pulled back in just because she's trying to tug you back with hugs and kisses. Look at them as tools she is using to keep you on her hip.
Whether she had/has someone else isn't an issue unless there's some evidence of it. You do for you and your daughters.
Keep detaching. Also keep in mind that all of the 'signals' you are getting mean nothing - put no value on them and keep on moving forward.
If you want to be too busy on a Friday night then be too busy. I wonder what her reaction would be if you actually canceled a date night she wanted...
robx is right - something easy to get has less value to a person. Making yourself less accessible and not at her beckon call is always a good thing. Just remember, there's a fine line there.
You need to snatch control back. Your talk with her the other day did just that. Now you need more of it - but not in an a$$hole kind of way.
Also, when they are in 'leaving' mode, they will find all kinds of stupid cr@p to pick a fight or spin it negatively on you. It's their way of rationalizing their desire to leave. Just shrug it off. Stand up for yourself - you're not a doormat.
Well it's another week down, and another week of status quo. The good part I guess is that there's no changes for the negative, but we still remain the same.
Last weekend she was telling me that she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me, but she also didn't want anyone else to be with me. I guess that's a natural feeling, but it also got me thinking she could let this thing go on like it is just because of that.
At this time all we're really doing is building a friendship, which I find frustrating. We went to the MC and her the C both think there's nothing wrong with that.
I told the MC that the two of had never dated and had a friendship, so this seems backwards. My W and I have had a mutual desire and attraction fr 23 years, so this new getting to know each other is a little weird to me.
I told them that I felt this decision was ultimately going to come down to me because my W will never let her guard down enough to let me completely in. She keeps commenting on how she notices this change and that change and how I've been walking the walk.
She needs time to make sure the changes are enough. She needs to make sure I'm someone she wants to be with. The frustrating part is I'm expected to just give her as much time as she needs to make up her mind.
When I brought up in MC that I thought I would need to make a decision at some point because I can't do this forever, I kind of got bombarded. Are the LBS really expected to wait around forever?
I'm moving forward living my life, but the more I do that, the harder it gets to want to stick around for her to decide. It just seems like an unfair thing to have to do. guess we're going to reassess after two months on where we're at. That's 5 more weeks from now
On another note, yesterday she asked about her going to Las Vegas for her friends wedding in September. She's been complaining about money allot, and may lose her job later this month. I told her that I didn't think we Vegas type money, and that her asking about this trip made me wonder where we would be.
I asked this, because this is a mutual friend of ours, but the talk is of her going not us. She never responded on the money part, but she said she couldn't see that far ahead as far as our relationship.
This is an incredibly frustrating situation to have to go through that's for sure. I'm just not sure I have the patience she's asking for to continue to go through this. It's absolutely draining me emotionally let me tell you.
This is an incredibly frustrating situation to have to go through that's for sure. I'm just not sure I have the patience she's asking for to continue to go through this. It's absolutely draining me emotionally let me tell you.
Yes it is draining. Not only that,but it does NOT work to wait around for a woman to make a decision. If you do wait around I can tell you for certain that it will be a very very very long time and in the end you will get the answer you don't want to hear...
You are making this more complicated than it is. When a woman WANTS to be with you they will do ANYTHING to be with you.. When they do NOT want to be with you they do what your WS is doing. It is the man who lets her go and moves on without her that wins the woman back. The nice guy who keeps hanging in there ends up without the woman and to top it off has wasted all that time to find out what I can tell you right now. She will not come back totally into you UNTIL you show her you don't want HER anymore and that you have moved on down the road. You will also at that time feel much better about yourself because you have taken the bull by the horns and made the decision FOR HER. You may bery well find her chasing you then...
I'd take a good look at gucci's words tbart. Recently you moved apart from her and she chased you by initiating hugs and such. I have found the more you move away, the more they chase...or not. If they don't want you at all, they won't chase. If there's part of them that still does, they'll chase.
It's the mindset you have of waiting that's the problem. That's the frustrating part. If you decide in your mind that you're not going to 'wait' for her, then the time frame disappears. No more wondering, worrying, thinking.
If you weren't 'waiting' what would you be doing differently than you are now?
Take some time and think about it.
[quote]
You are making this more complicated than it is. When a woman WANTS to be with you they will do ANYTHING to be with you.. When they do NOT want to be with you they do what your WS is doing. It is the man who lets her go and moves on without her that wins the woman back. The nice guy who keeps hanging in there ends up without the woman and to top it off has wasted all that time to find out what I can tell you right now. She will not come back totally into you UNTIL you show her you don't want HER anymore and that you have moved on down the road. You will also at that time feel much better about yourself because you have taken the bull by the horns and made the decision FOR HER. You may bery well find her chasing you then...
How to do this without moving out or filing?
Unfortunately we got a little heated with one another yesterday and in the end agreed to get a D.
I took the daughters out boating Sunday and my D15 hit hear head wakeboarding causing me to take her to the doctors Monday morning. I called her as soon as I knew we were going to the doctors. However, she came down on me for not letting her know that she fell initially.
Memorial day weekend she came down on me hard for me getting hurt while I was boating with the kids. When we had MC she brought it up, and the MC told her she seemed to be controlling. In light of her coming down on mw I chose not to tell her my D15 had fallen because it wasn't anything serious.
I wasn't trying to withhold anything from her, just trying to avoid conflict. Looking back on it I should have let her know and not worried about how she reacted. i have appologized for not letting her know that she had gotten hurt.
It was my weekend at the house with the girls. She text me and said she was at home with D15 and that she would pick up D4. She also said that there was no need for me to come by the house. I pick up my D4 from daycare everyday and take her home. On top of that all my stuff was still over there that I neede to pick up.
we also had a meeting scheduled to discuss how we were going to split the finances. i called and told her I was coming over. She asked me not to because we were both angry. If I didn't have clothes over there I wouldn't have gone over.
Anyway I went over to the house. She put down the budget spreadsheet and i told her lets finalize this. in her mind we were finalizing the divorce not the bill split, so the entire conversation turned to D. We pretty much agreed to D while she cried the entire time.
We talked again later that evening, and I really don't know where we stand. She said she doesn't know if it's her not putting her gaurd down to let mein or if tit's my resentment of her asking for a D that's holding us back. i believe it's a combination of the two.
I let her know that my desire was still to rebuild and that i 100% preferred to not get a D. However, if she could say with 100% certainty that she wants a D then I will go down that path with her.
I know we stil have time on our side, and i hope we don't let one incident like this take away what we've been working to improve. I will still continue to move forward with my life. part of me feels that the only way she'll ever come around is if we actually proceed with the D.
This entire process has too dang many ups and downs. No one ever said it would be easy, but D is absolutely not the answer.
Hi tbart. I'm a little confused - did you guys agree on a D or is it still open? You kind of said both in your last post.
Maybe it's time for you to lay down the direction. I'm assuming you want to work on your marriage. How about this:
Tell her you are in it 100% to repair your marriage. You want both of you to commit to one year with divorce not being an option at all during that time. You need her to fully commit - this includes marriage counseling, individual counseling and whatever else might help you guys. Maybe a Retrouville retreat weekend. Google it if you never heard of it.
Also tell her she has two weeks to decide if she's onboard with this plan. If she isn't then you want to proceed with the D. If she won't commit, and jump in with both feet (it is a leap of faith) then what's the point of going through the motions of looking like you are working on the marriage.
Maybe some other people can chime in on this.
Again, it's only an idea. Nothing's etched in stone.
last we spoke it was about getting a D and what steps we were going to take next to ensure this happened. She then said she needed time to process what exactly went down yesterday
I made it very clear to her last night that I was 1005 against getting a D, but if she was 100% for a D then that's the path we would go down.
we have each been doing IC and MC for the two months I've been back. we also see each other every day, but we seem to be stagnating. we have progressed since I've returned, but we're just not progressing.
we have an arangement to meet sometime later this week to discuss whethere or not we're truly throwing in the towel. Neither of us really want to D, but we all know how difficult it can be to rebuild.
Neither of us really want to D, but we all know how difficult it can be to rebuild.
Honestly, I don't know that it is that hard to rebuild.
It's hard for people to change sometimes, and things like improving communication, doing the the right thing, and just letting yourself be happy in the context of two people, when neither or one is unwilling to change is next to impossible however.
Rebuilding would take time. Starting over takes time.
I say that from the perspective, I must admit, of somebody whose marriage is dead and soon to be officially pronounced dead, but the rebuiding I don't think is any harder than anything else.
It's just as difficult to rebuild as it is to get a D according to my W. She sees tham both as just as draining and hard on everyone involved. I absolutely disagree with her rational.
Although it is difficult at times to rebuild a failing M, it can be very rewarding. D however is painfull to go through and has lasting effects on everyone involved. that has been my theory, but my W doesn't see it that way.
I myself have changed incredibly since the bomb was dropped. This change is what has made my W reconsider our D and come up with the idea for Mc and weekly date nights. her inability to drop her gaurd and let me in her circle is what's preventing us from moving forward.
We have definately progressed soince this first started, but we have not been progressing. What hasn't helped the situation is the conflict she's created with D15. we seem to have to deal with that too much, not allowing us to work on the relationship.
Believe me, D sucks and it's a total drain on energy and money.
So far, in the past year and a half we've spent about $15,000 and god knows how many hours of time, emotional turmoil, colateral damage, extra hardship on the kids, and countless other 'costs'.
I sometimes imagine what we could have done with all those resources if we had actually aimed them at rebuilding our marriage. I did all I could. But what a waste of life.
You're wife has to take a leap of faith. She has to just let go and trust the process. If she doesn't show up to the field, you guys will never have a chance to rebuild.
My W never showed back up. She claims she tried - all I'll give her is she tried to try. But she never came back in.
She just told me that she was out. She wanted to let me know that before I went to my C appointment tonight. She said it wasn't because of anything I've done in the past, but because of what I've done snce I've been home.
I have done nothing to warrant this since I've been home except for what happened the other day. If she's going to base it off of one incident, then she wasn't really in it to begin with.
It's really sad that this is the course she's decided to take, but she obviously won't know the true answer until she does it. i won't play this like a game, so if she want's to press forwardthen we'll do it for real.
We were supposed to get together to discuss whether or not we were going to proceed or try to fix things still. I guess I now have my answer.
Our next conversation will be about how we're going to divide our assets, and start the next step in the D process. It appears as though this M will not be DB, but is on the way out.
You have GOT to stop telling her this isn't what you want.
That isn't working.
Consult with a lawyer before you start making any agreements. I almost gave her everything because I was ignorant of the laws and the actual legal stuff. Once I saw my lawyer the whole game changed. Of course she wasn't happy about it, but at least I didn't bury myself out of stupidity.
My W did the same thing. She said her decision was based on my behavior once she dropped the bomb. The whole begging/pleading/cards/flowers, etc... stage.
Personally, they're both full of Sh#t. But they need some rationalization to justify their decisions to break up a family.
I can't stand quitters.
They take the path with least resistance, but it's the harder path to crawl. Then one day they look around and see they built the same pile of sh#t on a bed of sand. Wash, rinse, repeat.
And yes, as Gucci has said - agree with her decision. Tell her it's the best way. That you want to keep moving forward with your life.
Maybe Gucci can give you some advice on the actual mindset and wording.
She said her decision was based on my behavior once she dropped the bomb. The whole begging/pleading/cards/flowers, etc... stage.
I can see this point of view. Especially from a woman's standpoint, some guy they had a relationship with, either a short on or a long one, that they lost attraction for, that they now blow off, treat like crap, maybe cheated on, who tries winning them back by crying, professing their love, getting emotional when they don't or won't show love back, is not an example of strength, and confidence, and self respect that are very attractive qualities to someone of the opposite sex.
Take that one step further, and get depressed over the situation, and I can fully understand why a woman or a man would quit that situation. Unhappy people bring the party down. Confident, happy people, doing interesting and "new" things, attract others who want to enjoy the excitement?
Life is short. Why fight the resistance? Is it not more fun to throw up the spinnaker and sail down wind?
So she blew you out, and says she lost attraction for you because she blew you out. Most people are going to be affected from getting cheated on. Most of us on this board did not figure it out till we learned how the wayward looks at things.
Without the information, you are dealing with something that hurts and takes a lot of positive emotion out of you.
Why should the wayward be rewarded anyway?
She just told me that she was out. She wanted to let me know that before I went to my C appointment tonight. She said it wasn't because of anything I've done in the past, but because of what I've done snce I've been home.
I have done nothing to warrant this since I've been home except for what happened the other day. If she's going to base it off of one incident, then she wasn't really in it to begin with.
It's really sad that this is the course she's decided to take, but she obviously won't know the true answer until she does it. i won't play this like a game, so if she want's to press forwardthen we'll do it for real.
We were supposed to get together to discuss whether or not we were going to proceed or try to fix things still. I guess I now have my answer.
Our next conversation will be about how we're going to divide our assets, and start the next step in the D process. It appears as though this M will not be DB, but is on the way out.
I said it before,
just because you couldn't find evidence of another man doesn't mean he doesn't exist, even if it's just an emotional affair right now where she may just be talking to him every now & then.
Your wife sounds like someone who wants to be with someone else and definitely doesn't want to be with you.
But you... you keep fighting for this marriage, telling her it's not what you want and you want to keep your family together and work on the marriage and the relationship and she keeps telling you she doesn't want any of this but you keep telling her it's what you want so you keep disagreeing with her feelings and she keeps pushing you further away.
I would stop communicating with her altogether unless she contacts you and I would also stop this house swapping nonsense if you guys are still doing that.
If she really wants to go, give her what she wants.
If you guys split up and divorce, you won't be house swapping, let her have what she wants and let her start getting used to the details of the entire process.
She's calling all of the shots right now, when you do you finally let her go and start enjoying your life. If she wants the divorce, let her file for the divorce. If she gets a lawyer, you get one too and you don't do anything like splitting up assets and swapping homes, etc. until all the paperwork is filed and tells each of you what you are responsible for.
Let her go, she really wants to go and you keep fighting it, just let her go.
wow what i wrote stunk.
begging/pleading/cards/flowers jewelery letters that profess your love and dedication don't do it.
if it worked once, you used up your chances.
Life is short. Why fight the resistance? Is it not more fun to throw up the spinnaker and sail down wind? or are you more main and jib...
I didn't do any begging or pleading at any point. I've made it very clear from the beginning that i didn't want a D, but I would support whatever she wanted to do.
She said she wanted to follow through with the D, and I told her I would go down that path with her. In the end she wasn't a strong enough person to stick this out. She wasn't giving me what i needed to see as indicators of progress and in turn wasn't able to give her what she needed to rebuild this.
She has asked me for nothing but the children and child support. I'm keeping the house and most of the assets. I'm in the military and she isn't going after my retirement.
I still wish there was some way this could all be avoided, but I don't think so. She hinted at a possible future reconcile, but I told her once we have the July 8 court date to discuss custody and child support, that was a boundary crossed and that was it.
It appears as though 17 1/2 years of a good marriage has been tossed out the window. I really wish she was strong enough to go through this. She feels that D is easier than reconciliation.
Reconciliation can be a difficult process to go through, but can be very rewarding in the end. D is also a difficult process, but effects everyone involved for the rest of there lives.
I will never understand this, and I hope that no one else would have to experience this. I truly thought that we were on the road to recovery, but I was obviously wrong.
Reconciliation can be a difficult process to go through, but can be very rewarding in the end. D is also a difficult process, but effects everyone involved for the rest of there lives.
Meh... reconcillation just takes time and two people willing to change. Now, people tend not to change unless they are forced to change or become desperate enough to want to change, but that's the only place where "difficult" works itself into the equation.
I think some folks think that divorce is easier because then they will be forced to change some things (i.e. no more spouse, new living arrangements, and so on), but... if the character/communication flaws that lead to the divorce aren't addressed, then what's important doesn't change.
@ Steve McQueen. I can say what you wrote now and I can hand out that advice all day long - the same way it was handed out to me when I first got here.
Let me ask you this - Do you think if I was capable of "more fun to throw up the spinnaker and sail down wind?" that I would have ended up here at this board?
And if you just threw it all up in the air and went with the flow how come you're here?
I wouldn't have needed this board if I knew then what I know now. Great advice, but there aren't may people who walk into this place in shock and reeling from an atomic bomb going off in their ass who can just throw the switch and implement the proper mindset.
I'm in a totally different place now than I was then, I have thrown the spinnaker up and am sailing downwind - I'm going to court Thurs for a Temp Order of Protection my W took out with totally fabricated lies. Am I freaking out? Nope. Going with the flow and doing all the work I need to do in order to protect myself.
Just remember where these people are at when they first walk in here. Remember where you were at. I sure remember where I was at.
And I don't give a cr@p about how people 'feel' and if they're actually 'interested' in their spouse. A marriage is a marriage. To walk away from it without even attempting to revive is it completely irresponsible and selfish. And it's even more despicable when there are children (especially young children) in the mix.
There's no one here or anywhere else who is going to present a point of view that will sway me from this belief. (Physical abuse, active alcoholism or drug use doesn't count - that's a no-brainer to walk away from)
Reconciliation can be a difficult process to go through, but can be very rewarding in the end. D is also a difficult process, but effects everyone involved for the rest of there lives.
Meh... reconcillation just takes time and two people willing to change. Now, people tend not to change unless they are forced to change or become desperate enough to want to change, but that's the only place where "difficult" works itself into the equation.
I think some folks think that divorce is easier because then they will be forced to change some things (i.e. no more spouse, new living arrangements, and so on), but... if the character/communication flaws that lead to the divorce aren't addressed, then what's important doesn't change.
I couldn't agree more. I've changed unbelievably. My W has regressed. I mean she has gotten really sick and vindictive because she's not getting what she wants in this path to D.
Not only hasn't she changed she's actually moved so far backwards that I don't see any of the woman I married in this shell of a person she is now.
In her mind, if she gets rid of me she'll be happy and all good. I have a very different opinion - and time will tell which one of us are right.
@And I don't give a cr@p about how people 'feel' and if they're actually 'interested' in their spouse. A marriage is a marriage. To walk away from it without even attempting to revive is it completely irresponsible and selfish. And it's even more despicable when there are children (especially young children) in the mix.
There's no one here or anywhere else who is going to present a point of view that will sway me from this belief. (Physical abuse, active alcoholism or drug use doesn't count - that's a no-brainer to walk away from)
Amen to that. I can see there being a million reasons for unhappiness in a marriage, expressed or unexpressed, but to walk out and think it'll all go away -- especially, as you said, if children are involved -- is delusional. When children are involved it will NEVER all go away, no matter what the WAS thinks.
It truly pisses me off as well to know someone could just throw something away as precious as an entire family.
She told me the other day that she sees no other choice because of the way it's affecting the children. My D15 is pissed as hell for her tearing the family apart and for some reason my W thinks that by making a decision me D15 will be cool with it.
we're civil and getting along. She actually had me over for dinner on fathers day and she gave me gifts from the children. It was a really nice and surprising gesture. I told the children thank you and that I'm not used to getting gifts for fathers day. My W said she always gets me something for Fathers Day. It was and incorrect statement, but she believes it.
When we were talking the other day she said she may change her mind one day. it could be in a few months or 6 months who knows. She also said she realizes it could be too late by the point. I know for sure she will probably regret it and it probably will be too late.
I refuse to wait around for her to change her mind now that she has filed and made this decision. it was completely different when we were actively working to save our marriage. Now the dynamic of things has changed drastically.
I think this really sucks and is very unfortunate, but I know for sure that I'm going to be just fine.
I feel the same way you do about my W throwing away my family too. It is very selfish for the WASs to do this. The dynamics do change once they have filed for D. It is like something goes through your head, and it is time to move on and let go.
You will be fine, and focuse on the kids and you.
Let me ask you this - Do you think if I was capable of "more fun to throw up the spinnaker and sail down wind?" that I would have ended up here at this board?
Excellent Steady. But this is a question I cannot answer for you. You need to ask it to yourself. Excellent question though.
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I tried to answer your other questions but everything i wrote is irrelvant to me right now
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received a phone call from my wife a little bit ago that a life long friend of mine and brother in law just blew his brains out. since this is still up and im really sad, i will tell you, he and his wife went through an awful divorce, as messed up as many on this site, and he could never move on. the more he tried the worse it got.
i wrote what i saw a couple time on here before. I remember him begging and pleading and coming over to our house trying to talk to us as family hoping we could help convince his wife to give him a yet another chance. I remember him crying alot. he tried so hard in all the wrong ways. and she wanted nothing to do with him any longer.
he was one of the reason i said what i did above and over and over before on this site. i told him the same thing as a brother. he didnt listen. i really dont know what matters
love? whatever.
Steve I agree with the things you've said. I have no issue with any of it. But I didn't really 'get it' until it was too late.(whatever that means)
I'm sure you would agree with this - if we could give everyone a pill that would immediately detach them completely emotionally and mentally from their sitch there would be a much larger success ratio.
The problem I see is that I had to go through what I went through to get to the point I needed to be at when I walked in here..lol. A giant catch 22.
But like Mike from Tennessee used to say - it's not about the marriage, it's about saving yourself.
And I do agree with you on the statements you made on how unattractive it is to watch the person you lost interest in unravel and become even less attractive.
But it begs the question - If my spouse gains 100 lbs, or is injured and paralyzed, or any other situation you can think of - well it cause me to 'lose interest' in them, but is that a green light to walk away?
I think the idea of marriage is now obsolete. It's more like... I do, until I change my mind. And that change in mind usually comes when the marriage hits the 'for worse' part. Who knows. Maybe there will be a day when no one gets married. Seems like it doesn't really mean much anymore.
My STBX went to court last Wed and got a Temp Order of Protection. I signed for it on Thurs and when I read it I was totally dumbfounded. She totally fabricated some events and lied about other things that can be easily checked with some phone/text msg subpoena's.
The funny thing is this, I don't care. It really cut out the last piece of me that was interested in her in some way. I can see now how desperate she is to get what she wants. She is now stooping to outright fabrication. Before it was only embellishment and exaggerating, but now it's down to outright lying.
I really feel sorry for her. It's a hell of a way to have to live and I wouldn't want to live 3 seconds in her skin.
tbart, detach. I would leave the 'friendly' [censored] out at the curb and start calling her on any sh#t she throws out there.
I have my sails full up, going with the wind and hugging anything that I see on the river on the way. I love my life, I love my kids, I love my family.
All the rest of life doesn't really mean anything when it comes right down to it.
I do agree with you on the statements you made on how unattractive it is to watch the person you lost interest in unravel and become even less attractive.
But it begs the question - If my spouse gains 100 lbs, or is injured and paralyzed, or any other situation you can think of - well it cause me to 'lose interest' in them, but is that a green light to walk away?
So well said, steady. The vows say "For better or for worse," and I might not be very religious, but I'm not a quitter. Walking away from a relationship for whatever reason (short of abuse or violence, of course) is QUITTING. It's not "moving on with your life," "starting over," "creating a clean slate." It's QUITTING. And I find that particularly reprehensible when there are young children involved ... because what's the message that's sent to them?
Amen.
There is nothing to add. Go in peace.
All the rest of life doesn't really mean anything when it comes right down to it.
wow. to me it means everything.
I hear what you're saying. I want to walk away and not think twice, but it's pretty difficult.
I'm still confused by this entire decision. We have a M worth saving and that can be saved, but she throws in the towel. We get along great.
She told me that she may think differently down the road, and she knows it will possibly be too late because i will have moved on.
It's completely sad that she just doesn't get it. My D4 asked me last night if i was sleeping at the house, when I told her no she said she doesn't like it when i leave. made me sad as hell.
Remember though, she's doing what's best for the kids. Whatever, it's 100% all about her in this situation. My D15 doesn't even like being around her because of what she's doing.
Anyway, i guess it all doesn't really matter anymore. I know that I made great changes and putt full effort into it. i was unable to give her the time and space she needed, and that's why this failed.
Hold on, T.
Your last line makes no sense. It's incorrect.
Always remember who "didn't" change. You acted to change. She chose not to. And it clearly us 100% about her. Completely self-centered.
Your sitch will likely be how mine plays out as well. The most important thing is that YOU will detach from the situation and
be able to focus and you and your D's.
AND IT DOES MATTER. You didn't quit. You have to remember that. Your D's will.
I'm not Puppy, or Greek, or Allen or Coach. I'm just a dad like you living the worst case scenario. But the ring I proudly wear on my finger is MY commitment to my family. And WE come first. She makes the decision to leave. And if she does figure it out and it is too late (because you and your D's have moved on), SHE gets to think about that forever.
Excellent. I cant believe the number of people I know that are almost best friends with their EX's and the times I have heard, "We are such great friends we just didnt make a very good married couple" or "I dont know why we didnt get along this good when we were married." Some of them I think still fool around with each other because they never did drive the stake through the heart in all of their arguments.
Just an observation. Steve.
All the rest of life doesn't really mean anything when it comes right down to it.
wow. to me it means everything.
I have my sails full up, going with the wind and hugging anything that I see on the river on the way. I love my life, I love my kids, I love my family.
All the rest of life doesn't really mean anything when it comes right down to it.
When you quote someoene you probably should grab the whole context of where the statement came from.
Well when I'm on my deathbed I don't think I'll be so concerned with how many times I stubbed my toe, how many trips to europe I took, and petty arguments....etc.
I would like to imagine the things I'd be thinking about would be if I did a good job raising my kids, did I do the best I could in the relationships I had, the great memories of times I had with friends and family,etc...
Like I said, to me, all the rest of life doesn't mean a damn thing when you get right down to it. One day this stuff I'm going through is only going to look like a speed bump in my rear-view mirror. So at the end of it all, how important is it really?
Amen Steady, i have to agree. it doesn't make it any easier while we go through it, but it's the truth.
To clarify the getting along thing. We always have, and still are despite what we're going through is what I meant.
She told me yesterday that she see's D as the only option at this point, but that even after the d is final we may still find ourselves back together. She said she will never close that door.
I must say i really don't understand this logic at all. The other option is to work on this thing and know for sure we've gone down every avenue.
i will say that it's much easier being together when we're not forcibly trying to work on us. it was difficult when we had pre scheduled date nights and other time together.
now we have nothing to lose so to speak so we go with the flow. She still wants to spend time together, we're just not actively working on us.
i hired my attorney yesterday, and we're proceeding until something changes. i have no choice at this point but to now move on rather than forward.
She told me yesterday that she see's D as the only option at this point, but that even after the d is final we may still find ourselves back together. She said she will never close that door.
I must say i really don't understand this logic at all. The other option is to work on this thing and know for sure we've gone down every avenue.
I watched my W use such illogical 'logic'. It doesn't make sense because there is no sense to it. Has she ever explained to you why she thinks a D is the only option??
I like you, we get along really well, we've been married all these years, we have kids together, I want to spend time with you, we may get back together down the road....but I see D as the only option.
I'm not sure what universe that makes sense in, but it doesn't seem to be the one I live in.
She's bailing - for what? There has to be something. Another person, a mid life crisis...something.
Next time she says - I see D as the only option, ask her what the other options are. Let her list them out without your help...lol. I'm curious to know what she sees as 'the other options' that are no good.
You know we've been doing really well lately with all the pressure off. We have had very open conversations the past few days.
She said she needed to be honest with me, she knows she gave me a 2 X 4 across the head causing me to make changes. she feels that she can't stop because it will cause me either revert back or stop making changes.
The other she told me she was uncomfortable with me having a male roomate being that I have a teenage D. I asked her if she wanted me to get a female roomate, and she said absolutely not.
We have our first court dtae on 8 July do discuss child support and custody. i asked her today if july 8 is going to happen for sure. She responded by saying "Is that was this is about? A big push to get me to drop everything? Is that why you have wanted to talk about things so much? I thought it was because you have thought about our last meeting with the counselor".
Now she thinks that everything I say or do has a motive to get her to do something. That has never been me and isn't me now. Again, when we seem to make some progress, we seem to get knocked back down.
I had mention during MC last time that once we had that court dat it was a boundary crossed for me. It will have been a big negative in our situation, and money spent on an attorney that didn't need to be spent.
She sent me another email asking me "So what happens when July 8th does come and go? You still have it set in your mind that is a magical date"?
It appears as though she feels she needs to proceed with the court date, but still wants to hang on to the possibility of us reconciling. I'm not saying that it's not possible for us to reconcile during the D process, but the logic on her part just doesn't seem logical.
She talked to me again last night and told me she doesn't think that I have a motive behind my actions.
She also sat down on my lap and said she was a broken person and doesn't feel she can give me 100% of herself. She said that's one of the things she's been working on in counseling.
She said she has made great strides, but asked me to give her time to repair herself.
She talked to me again last night and told me she doesn't think that I have a motive behind my actions.
She also sat down on my lap and said she was a broken person and doesn't feel she can give me 100% of herself. She said that's one of the things she's been working on in counseling.
She said she has made great strides, but asked me to give her time to repair herself.
This is the part I don't understand. Just because a person can't give their spouse 100% at any given time in the M doesn't mean they need to get a D. That's part of marriage - each spouse will go up and down in life, it's part of life. Sometimes one spouse is more invested in the R than the other and vise-versa.
On your last sentence, Give her more time? I'm not sure what she's thinking, but time is decreasing every day that D date comes up. If a person wants more time, which is what you guys have a lot of (because there is no impending reason to rush for a D), then take the time limiting factors out of the equation and leave time open ended.
You said above she needs the date there because she's afraid you won't keep your changes. Well that seems to be backwards. If the date comes and goes, you keep the changes but decided the date is a point of no return, then she's out of luck.
On the other hand, if the date disappears, then she'll know if your changes start to diminish as time passes.
It appears as though she feels she needs to proceed with the court date, but still wants to hang on to the possibility of us reconciling. I'm not saying that it's not possible for us to reconcile during the D process, but the logic on her part just doesn't seem logical.
I haven't chimed in for a while because you were happy enough to continue doing what you had always been doing without listening to the advice.
Observe reality.
She isn't logical.
Who said she was?!
You are applying your male logic to her female emotions, that never works, I'm sure I mentioned this to you before.
Hold on to the date.
That date works for you too now.
How long have you been at this?
Once that date happens, you pull back, you let go, you detach. You are mean, punitive, angry or resentful, you just let go.
No more switching homes or any other such nonsense, once custody and all the details are worked out, you tell her you will be living in that home and she will be living where she is living and the kids will just have to get used to going back & forth between the two locations, just something they need to get used to doing when you guys eventually divorce.
If she gets angry at you and claims you're negating all your changes and hard work you tell her that she has admitted to you that she isn't 100% herself, a relationship has to be mutually beneficial, you can't just put in 100% effort and expect nothing from her, you would resent her eventually because she hasn't done anything, even if you say you won't resent her now, trust me, you would, its human nature, no one does something for nothing forever, we want to be rewarded for our efforts, without reward you will quit doing what you're doing.
You'll start limiting contact with her, you will let her take care of herself and the kids when she has them, you'll stop yourself from rescuing her or feeling bad for her, time to be put on her BGP's as Greek would say (big girl panties) and let her deal with the consequences of her actions & decisions.
Someone who admits that they aren't 100% but is still willing to make decisions that adversely affect your life as well as the lives of your children can't be reasoned with, they're in their world, a place I like to call "Planet Fruitopia" and you can't get them to come back to Earth/Reality any sooner, it's up to them. Let her go, she doesn't have your best interested at heart, she isn't committed 110% wholeheartedly to fixing your relationship and she isn't working hard like you are working yet she holds you to this high standard that she can't hold herself to, that's a double standard and that isn't fair.
Let her go, stop fighting, stop everything, the next time she sits on your lap, you will do something counter-intuitive, you will ask her to get up, you don't feel comfortable with her sitting on your lap considering everything that's been going on, you've been doing some thinking and you've decided that you don't know how you feel about all of this anymore either, life is short, life is precious and you are wasting a lot of time in this process. You don't want to be with someone that doesn't want to be with you and you have a lot more thinking to do, again, you're not sure if you want any of this anymore.
Time to call game over,
she want know what she had until she's lost it.
It's all very confusing on her part as we all know. Unfortunately it makes it confusing to us the LBS as well.
Steady, you're right it makes no sense that she thinks she can't come back right now because she can't give 100%. I told her the only way we'll ever know for sure whether or not it can work is to give it a try. I would hate for her to just walk away from something because she doesn't feel she can give it her all.
Robx I also agree with you. it's been my feeling for quite some time that the only way she's going to feel any of this is to start her new living arrangement. I haven't forced the issue because i don't want my daughters to leave there home, but the time is approaching.
Once the date comes and I have to start to paying child support, she'll have to move. Unfortunately, I'll also have to sell the family home and find a place for me.
It will be sad to have her come to her senses (if that ever happens), and all that we had is gone. I also won't be waiting around for her to fix herself once she follows through with the court date.
It will be very hard for me to return to her with all the resentment I will have because she kept the court date intact.
Hey, tbart.
I have been following along quietly. You are getting great advice as we all are.
You seem to be having some trouble implementing some of the advice out of uncertainty or fear of what will or might happen. I'm right there with you.
it's been my feeling for quite some time that the only way she's going to feel any of this is to start her new living arrangement. I haven't forced the issue because i don't want my daughters to leave there home, but the time is approaching.
I don't want this to happen to my four kids. I can't change her mind for her, though. I have to stop fighting her and giver her what she wants. Like you, mine won't leave.
Once the date comes and I have to start to paying child support, she'll have to move. Unfortunately, I'll also have to sell the family home and find a place for me.
I think it will take the same action to get my W to leave. I may be able to keep the house, we'll just have to see.
Anyway, listen to everyone, as hard as it is, and let go. Sounds easy, I know. Again, I'm right there with you.
Good luck.
You know what's really funny....since my W tried to get a second restraining order, yep, her second attempt in 16 months, I've done all my texting and emailing through my brother. Part of the temp order is that I can't text or email her unless it has to do with the kids. She lied and said I was texting/calling/emailing her all night and all day...lol.
(you can read all about it on my thread)
She even said I had conversations with her regarding where she's been even though she's didn't tell me where she was, so she is afraid I am or I have someone following her...lol. I couldn't believe I actually read those words on her affidavit. I couldn't give a sh$t what she's doing. Never mind wasting my time following her.
Anyway, I have not talked/texted/emailed/called her directly in two weeks. I don't care. I took what she wanted and gave it a push in the direction she was sending it...it's a fundamental Jiu Jitsu move.
Now she's reeling. Trying to contact me directly when I told her through my brother that I don't want her direct contact. I only want her to contact my brother who would then forward the message to me, then I would do the same.
Well now I'm getting the thank you's, her actual name written at the bottom of her emails, and tonight in one of her emails I get, I hope you and the kids have a great time on your trip. lol
I'm taking the kids to Colorado for a family reunion for a week. We're leaving on Thurs.
I don't care if I ever talk to her for the rest of my life. I just don't care at all. She's the last person I even want to see. The Friday after we get back I have the kids until 4:00. She wants to take them earlier that Friday and it's her weekend. I'd like to go to work that day because I need the hours.
So I had my brother send her an email saying she can have the kids in the afternoon and I'm going to work...but I added I wanted the switch to happen at my brother's house or in a public place. I need to protect myself. Hell, if I had it my way, I'd be doing any switches through a third person so I wouldn't have to see her at all...ever.
tbart, look at what's really going on. Look at how you're being treated. It's almost like some sort of perverse game. Let me tell you I want a D, let me sit on your lap and tell you I'm broken, let me tell you I think I need to hold this date over your head otherwise you'll change back, let me tell you I want you to give me more time - but in the meantime I'm going to press forward with the D, which is the time cutoff, but I think we may get back together later, maybe, probably, I'm not sure, but it's the best thing, compared to...uh, um, oh, compared to something I think I saw in the crystal ball I have hidden in my room, or was that in the attic? Wait we don't have an attic...what was that you asked me?
Want to ride bikes? It's your fault. Is that what this is all about? Trying to push me into reconsidering the D? I mean, come on now.... I've only changed my mind 50 times since you've been back...that's not a lot!
She tells me that she doesn't see the court date as anything other than a step in the process, it's not an end all. What frign process other than D is this the next step in?
What she fails to realize is the next step after that is her moving and me selling the house. She said once child support is set up at the court date that she's going to give me the money back so we can pay the mortgage.
If she doesn't see this as an end all, but she's not actively working on us, then why do it at all? If she plans to give the money back, then why?
I believe she expects us to go to court and continue to do what we're doing. If she's proceeding, then i have to proceed with the D. Proceeding means her moving, me moving, and the family home going for sale.
It also means she wont be seeing and hanging out with me like she has been. her continuing with the hearing is a non commitment from her, so what's the point in us doing things together?
Two more days until our first court date. That's where we discuss custody and child support. She still doesn't see this as an end all, but another step in the process.
We spoke last night and agreed to the stipulations. i told her i gave all my financial information to my attorney and he will give a number to her attorney. She claims she won't contest whatever he proposes.
She wouldn't close the door on us, but she wouldn't open it either. the one thing she did agree to is to give me money to cover half the mortgage so we don't have top sell the house (just in case we get back together). She also wants to leave all my D4 outside toys there so she can play in her neighborhood.
I told her I wasn't in a hurry in the past to have her move because I didn't want the girls to leave their house. However, I told her that after the court hearing that she needed to move si that she could experience the way that I've been living. Also, i told her that I needed to take her security blanket away from (me and my money).
We both agreed that the only way she'll be able to get her time and space was for us to make the living arangement swap and for her to see what it's like without me. She said she could possibly go to the other home and start thinking about things and want to start the process of coming back.
I really couldn't figure out what to do with the house, because I'd want to keep it if we got back together. I asked her if she was completely closing the door or not. That's when she agrred to help me pay the mortgage so we can keep it.
We went out together Saturday night, spent the 4th together, and then went boating all day yesterday. She commented that things felt like normal to her, but she isn't ready for us to live together because she doesn't want to shell up again.
I agree, we couldn't live together successfully in her current state. She needs to finish working on fixing herself. Out of knowhere she tells me I can date, but she doesn't want to know, doesn't want the kids to meet them, and for me to not have sex until the D is final.
She also said to make sure that if i date, to do it on the weekends she has the kids so that she doesn't run into me. She said she would be jeleous, but she didn't want to dictate what I do.
....Out of nowhere she tells me I can date, but she doesn't want to know, doesn't want the kids to meet them, and for me to not have sex until the D is final.
She also said to make sure that if i date, to do it on the weekends she has the kids so that she doesn't run into me. She said she would be jealous, but she didn't want to dictate what I do.
Listen I'm going to say it again just because you like to not hear this at all. She's telling you it's ok for you to date because she has someone in mind already, possibly someone she is dating already that you don't know about.
Do you see how she says it's ok for you to date, she is giving you permission so that she doesn't feel so guilty about what she's doing because she does feel guilty about the secrets she's keeping, the sneaking around, the lying, etc.
My answer would have been "OK, sounds good to me, I think it's a pretty good idea", agree with her 110% and then do it. Don't keep it a secret either, move on, let her go, date other women and then see what happens.
Just because you don't know about the guy she's been seeing/interested in doesn't mean he doesn't exist.
You've been warned.
One thing I'll add is her giving you permission to date and when you can you date (only on weekends, etc.), think about the mindset involved at this point, look at the amount of control she exerts over you:
- you are allowed to date, she is giving you permission
- if you date, you are only allowed to date on the weekends
- she is telling you when you guys can sell the house
- she started the d process
- she didn't close the door on your marriage but didn't open the door either, the decision is up to her, you have no control in any of this
I will give you some props,
you told her that she had to move,
you won't be house swapping,
she needs to live without your security blanket,
you moving on, detaching and dating other women will show her you're for real.
"She isn't ready" for you to live together, again this is her running the show.
Your position should probably be:
"I'm not sure about us anymore, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, you giving me permission to date other women only gives me insight into our current relationship problems, if you're willing to entertain the possibility of sharing me with other women, maybe it's safe to assume you've started dating other men, why would anyone give their spouse permission to date other people? I hope you're happy with whoever this person is, you should be with him, I won't stand in your way anymore. Good luck with him."
Smile and walk away and do just that,
move on, detach, let go of her, date other women,
she's been in control for so long, what happens to her when you actually take her up on the offer and find a great woman who actually wants to be with you, guess what, she loses control of you and the situation she's created and that's when this dynamic changes.
robx I do see your point. I'm not saying I'm truly convinced that there isn't someone else either emotionally or physically. I have no proof or anything that would lead me to believe it's happening.
I have questioned and asked her about this. That's all I can do at this point. I'm not sure it really matters at this point, other than it would give me some clarity.
I think it will be much easier to detach once she moves and we're not spending so much time together. She won't feel the sting until she really lives without me.
She thinks it will be like when I was deployed. However, it wont be because she will not be living in her house or have access to my paycheck. All things she still had when i was deployed.
Reality will soon smack her right in the face. I have already begun to move on, and know for a fact that there are others that appreciate me and would want to be with me.
Great advice as always, robx.
My D and I were talking and she told me my w was texting someone named xxxx, and last night my W said she was talking to her female cousin but it was a male voice on the other end.
I asked my W about it, she explained what it was, may or may not be true. To be honest I don't care at this point. She acuused me of accusing her, and got angry at me because she knew i wouldn't be able to accept that this was actually about her and I only and not someone else.
After a some text messages back and forth, she called and said she was going home to tear into my D for trying to cause problems. I was in a doctors appointment, and walked out to run home and head her off.
I got there before her and tried to stop her from going in and tearing into my D. She went in and did it anyway. After awhile she started telling my D everything that was going on between us. she told her about the court date and that we were getting D for sure. Up until now, my D thought we were working on things.
As the conversation went on all my W was doing was saying bad things about me to my D, and trying to hurt me. Most of it backfired in her face, and even my D called her out on stuff. Unfortunately, the stuff my W said is actually what she believes to be reality.
At the end of it all we agreed that the door was closed on us. She had been mean and hurtful for the last time to me. I told her the only interaction we would have is to discuss issues with our daughters. No more doing things together or trying to act like a family.
Even my D told her to to get over the past. My W told my D that one of the reasons we're divorcing is because we can't see eye to eye. I told my D that no one in a relationship see's everything eye to eye. You do sometimes, but you work through what you can't
My W is very much detached from reality, and is the reason we will never be able to move forward together. All we can do at this point is move on separately. At this point it will be a miracle if we ever get back together. i told her that she didn't deserve me. I know I'm a good husband and father and don't deserve this treatment.
My D and I were talking and she told me my w was texting someone named xxxx, and last night my W said she was talking to her female cousin but it was a male voice on the other end.
I asked my W about it, she explained what it was, may or may not be true. To be honest I don't care at this point. She accused me of accusing her, and got angry at me because she knew i wouldn't be able to accept that this was actually about her and I only and not someone else.
After a some text messages back and forth, she called and said she was going home to tear into my D for trying to cause problems. I was in a doctors appointment, and walked out to run home and head her off.
I got there before her and tried to stop her from going in and tearing into my D. She went in and did it anyway. After awhile she started telling my D everything that was going on between us. she told her about the court date and that we were getting D for sure. Up until now, my D thought we were working on things.
As the conversation went on all my W was doing was saying bad things about me to my D, and trying to hurt me. Most of it backfired in her face, and even my D called her out on stuff. Unfortunately, the stuff my W said is actually what she believes to be reality.
At the end of it all we agreed that the door was closed on us. She had been mean and hurtful for the last time to me. I told her the only interaction we would have is to discuss issues with our daughters. No more doing things together or trying to act like a family.
Even my D told her to to get over the past. My W told my D that one of the reasons we're divorcing is because we can't see eye to eye. I told my D that no one in a relationship see's everything eye to eye. You do sometimes, but you work through what you can't
My W is very much detached from reality, and is the reason we will never be able to move forward together. All we can do at this point is move on separately. At this point it will be a miracle if we ever get back together. i told her that she didn't deserve me. I know I'm a good husband and father and don't deserve this treatment.
I'll hold you to that last part,
let's see if you can make it stick ;-)
I'm sorry bro,
I didn't want to be right about this, I really didn't but your wife really had no good reason not to want to fix the relationship with you if someone else wasn't in the picture.
What would she have to lose by working things out with you if no one else was involved?
But she had plans already with someone else.
She got angry at you for accusing her,
she gave you permission to date (thank you wife, I appreciate that, you're allowing me to date while you've been seeing someone already, glad you're being fair about this LOL)
- she wants to give you false hope by going through the divorce procedure but letting you know that things might work out in the end (in case things don't work out with the other guy, you're the safe fallback option, the backup plan should planet fruitopia spontaneously explode when it collides with reality here on planet earth)
- she got angry at your daughter for siding with you because as much as she is enjoying the attention of another man, she doesn't like the feeling of being guilty about it and being judged for what she's doing.
You can handle it, I'm confident you'll get through this.
Time to take her up on her offer and start some social interactions with members of the opposite sex.
Regardless of how angry she appears right now, wait until she hears that you've gone out on a few dates. This is all very similar to the analogy of the new toy/old toy issue with a child, they want both if they can keep both and have a hard time making a decision on what they want, the new toy is exciting and new but the old toy has always been there, there is a feeling of security and history attached to it, the child wants to play with the new toy most of the time because it's new and exciting but doesn't want to let go of the old one just in case the new toy doesn't work out.
Sucks to be an old toy.
But.... I think you can turn this around,
first and foremost, you need a break from all of this.
A break from this problem, even a break from this site, take a few days/few weeks, relax/recuperate/regroup and start with a fresh relaxed mind and a clearer view of all of this. Focus on being a great person for yourself and a great parent for your kids.
Let your wife have her new toy as long as she knows that you aren't waiting around for her to come back.
Went to court today and it was rather quick. The attorney's told the judge we agreed upon everything and presented it to him. My attorney is still waiting for W financials, so child support is still unknown. Both attorneys were very surprised to see we still talk and get along. They told the judge that we seem to agree on everything, so they didn't see a problem with the holiday schedule we need to come up with.
Afterward D15 had mentioned that W was telling her last night that I wasn't capable of being a primary parent, so I called mt W. I told her to immediately stop talking bad about me to my D or anyone else. She said she didn't say those things, but that she would from this point forward stop bashing me (we'll see).
She then asked if I wanted to go to lunch with her so we could discuss further. We both realize that D for some reason is pitting me against my W. We're somehow going to try and get a handle on that to at least prevent blow ups like yesterday from happening. She admitted that how she reacted yesterday was completely wrong, and would try not to let that happen again.
All in all it was a little emotional, but not as bad as I thought. My W left without saying anything to me, but we sat together in the court room. It still sucks, and cut's like a knife, but I'll rise above and conquer.
Went to court today and it was rather quick. The attorney's told the judge we agreed upon everything and presented it to him. My attorney is still waiting for W financials, so child support is still unknown. Both attorneys were very surprised to see we still talk and get along. They told the judge that we seem to agree on everything, so they didn't see a problem with the holiday schedule we need to come up with.
Afterward D15 had mentioned that W was telling her last night that I wasn't capable of being a primary parent, so I called mt W. I told her to immediately stop talking bad about me to my D or anyone else. She said she didn't say those things, but that she would from this point forward stop bashing me (we'll see).
She then asked if I wanted to go to lunch with her so we could discuss further. We both realize that D for some reason is pitting me against my W. We're somehow going to try and get a handle on that to at least prevent blow ups like yesterday from happening. She admitted that how she reacted yesterday was completely wrong, and would try not to let that happen again.
All in all it was a little emotional, but not as bad as I thought. My W left without saying anything to me, but we sat together in the court room. It still sucks, and cut's like a knife, but I'll rise above and conquer.
"Primary parent" is a bit of a technical term,
interesting your daughter would mention that out of the blue, you think she came up with that herself? I don't, I think she may have overheard your wife talking to her lawyer about child custody, etc.
Your wife has bad mouthed you in front of the children before, you've mentioned as much in previous posts. So it comes as no surprise that she continues to do this. Your wife needs to be careful about this, it can actually look very negatively on her character in a court of law, openly talking poorly about the other spouse/parent to your children is a NO NO. Document how many times this is happening and let your lawyer know about it. Document the arguments that involve her and her daughter, at this point, it's a necessary evil.
As far as pitting you against your wife, I don't see it that way. I think your daughter is angry at your mom, she isn't pitting you against her, you guys have responsibility for the existing situation, she is however angry at your wife, it's possible she has seen or heard too much of what your wife may have been doing while you were away, possibly late night interactions on the phone or computer with another man.
As for going out to lunch, I would say coffee instead of lunch, make it more casual and again this becomes your decision as to the venue and keeps it more focused on what needs to be discussed instead of blurring it with friendly chit chat over lunch. Like you said, she left without saying a word to you, no need to reward that behavior with a lunch with you, just my 0.02 cents.
You can handle it.
Just go ahead and do it, date! I did and you know what I feel very good about it. My STBXW is dating too, oh well. I know some people are saying wait until the dust settles? I dunno, i had a real fun weekend with a very nice woman, and I DIDNT THINK ABOUT STBXW, just do it. ROBX and Gucci all the way : )
and look how confident knightinneed sounds now,
amazing how a change of scenery can do that,
listen to his attitude, he's a champ, a world beater because he finally had the guts to step out of his "comfort" zone to realize that where he was originally wasn't all that comfortable to begin with.
And you can thank Gucci for that inspiration because that's where I got most of mine ;-)
I've already got a plan in place. Someone has already been interested in me, and there's nothing to stop me at this point.
take it easy there soldier LOL!
I'm not advocating that you hump the first skirt you come in contact with, just go out and enjoy some social interaction, remember what it used to feel like, boost your confidence and self-esteem a bit to where it needs to be during all of this.
I've just been hanging on to this sinking ship for so long that it's time to lift myself up.
I really need to detach and set her free for myself first. i still very much love her, but I dodn't like who she is right now. She can be nice, but she tries to talk negatively about me too much.
I don't really have any advice for you right now. I think robx has given you plenty of good stuff. Whether or not your W has someone else is kind of irrelevant at this point. It would make some things make more sense but in reality it's her thing and has nothing to do with you.
I wouldn't even bother with a lunch or coffee. Maybe there's a more impersonal way to handle the stuff you would do over a face to face. I've found texting and emailing as a perfect way to share information about the kids. That way I don't even have to deal with her and crap that comes up in face to face interactions.
When my W told me she wanted to separate during one of our MC sessions, she basically said she wanted to do a legal separation. She then added "It doesn't mean we're going to D, my L said that a lot of people stay M and get back together. I just want to do it legally so everything is spelled out." When I got up to go to the bathroom, our MC told my W that she better not be playing a game with me. She told her if she wants out of the marriage she needs to say that and not play some game about 'legal separation, maybe get back together.' She told my W I deserved the straight truth and not some BS.
When I got back my W said she didn't want to be married anymore.
It makes me wonder if your W is trying to play the same game. I'd agree with robx about you being some kind of cushion to fall back on - whether there is someone else or not.
I imagine my W has had someone in the wings because most women don't take the leap without a parachute - it's very rare. I have no proof, but I would take a good guess that there is. At this point I don't care. That's her thing and has nothing to do with my life.
The same advice holds true. Take care of yourself and your D. Keep building your life. Don't let her dictate terms of you dating - I'd actually go opposite of what she suggests as part of her control attempt.
I would highly recommend this:
Your position should probably be:
"I'm not sure about us anymore, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me, you giving me permission to date other women only gives me insight into our current relationship problems, if you're willing to entertain the possibility of sharing me with other women, maybe it's safe to assume you've started dating other men, why would anyone give their spouse permission to date other people? I hope you're happy with whoever this person is, you should be with him, I won't stand in your way anymore. Good luck with him."
Smile and walk away and do just that, move on, detach, let go of her, date other women, she's been in control for so long, what happens to her when you actually take her up on the offer and find a great woman who actually wants to be with you, guess what, she loses control of you and the situation she's created and that's when this dynamic changes.
Find a way to put it into one of your interactions. But make sure you mean it when you say it.
I've detached from my W to the point where I have no interest in even interacting with her at all. Of course I have to for information about the kids but that's it. That all gets done through text and email - and now I even do that through a third party.
It may change some of the dynamics, but it really doesn't matter to me. I'm not doing it to create some 'change', I'm doing it because it's right for ME. I could care less what impact it has on her. That makes all the difference.
...I imagine my W has had someone in the wings because most women don't take the leap without a parachute - it's very rare. I have no proof, but I would take a good guess that there is. At this point I don't care. That's her thing and has nothing to do with my life.
I've heard it put other ways but this is just as good if not better, this is very true a lot of the time, not 100% of the time but a lot!
Re: She Say's She Want's Out Of The Marriage
You're correct, there really isn't any more advice you can give that hasn't already been given. Also, it really doesn't matter at this point, because I really don't care.
It's very unfortunate that she's chosen to cash in, but it's her mistake that she will possibly one day regret. All I'm trying to do right now is enjoy every moment spent with my daughters, and moving on for my own sanity.
Work has kept me from having my weekend with the girls for almost a month. I'm off and have them this weekend, and it's been the happiest I've been in awhile.
I don't like knowing that this is really happening, but I'm doing allot better than I thought I would. It's really sad to see her act like she does, but what can I do? All I do is blow it off and move on. She doesn't get the rise out of me she wants.
It's very hard to go down this road, but I'll be ok and I honestly believe that. I'm just concentrating on moving on to save myself, and to make sure I'm there for my daughters.
She doesn't get the rise out of me she wants
u should be getting the rise
SM, what I meant was she isn't getting the reaction out of me she wants or is expecting.
She tells me and my D15 how proud she's been of me for making all these changes, then the other day she goes on her rant and say's I haven't changed at all.
This is the first time since she first dropped the bomb that she's starting to become mean again. I'm maintaining my cool and actually looking forward to moving on. It's unfortunate but necessary at this point.
Like I stated before I'm hanging on to a sinking ship. I need to move on before I let myself sink with it. I love her still, but I would never be with this woman as she is now.
Her and my daughters will be moving out in the next week and the house will be rented out. I'll find myself something else to rent or buy, and move on.
Hopefully this will finally bring me some sort of peace and closure.
I am sure it will bring you a little closure. I still live in our old house. I don't know if I should move. I thought about it. She got all of her stuff out so it looks different. I still just can't believe this happened. When does the shock go away and is there something worse behind the shock?
SM, what I meant was she isn't getting the reaction out of me she wants or is expecting.
This pisses them off more than anything. They need to push the buttons and get negative reactions in order to keep feeding their rationalizations of why they are doing what they are doing.
She tells me and my D15 how proud she's been of me for making all these changes, then the other day she goes on her rant and say's I haven't changed at all.
Happened to me Thanksgiving of '08. Told me how grateful she was that I was there, how proud she and her family was of me, how her mom wished her father would change..blah, blah, blah. Two months later, she bails. Wait till time passes and they can't keep switching up the shells. It may be interesting.
This is the first time since she first dropped the bomb that she's starting to become mean again. I'm maintaining my cool and actually looking forward to moving on. It's unfortunate but necessary at this point.
Her meanness is just to get the reaction she wants so she can feel better about what she's doing.
I love her still, but I would never be with this woman as she is now.
I can totally relate to this.
Her and my daughters will be moving out in the next week and the house will be rented out. I'll find myself something else to rent or buy, and move on.
Hopefully this will finally bring me some sort of peace and closure.
It will bring you change. Closure depends on what you do with it. If you keep moving forward it will help with closure.
When does the shock go away and is there something worse behind the shock?
The shock goes away. Behind it are the smaller after shocks. They grow weaker and further between until they disappear.
They say divorce is as bad emotionally as a death. Make sure you take your time and move on. It's going to take time and how long depends on you. You really need to continue the changes now for you. Soon, you will realize and revel in your new freedom. freedom from the rollercoaster, freedom from the XW's control, freedom from limbo.
This morning my W came by the house because it was my weekend and my D4 was sick.
While she was here she was here I told I had rented the house out. She asked me to hold off because she wanted us to see a financial planner to make sure it was the right decision. I reminded her that it was the only decision at this point because the house is worth just as much as we owe since we just refinanced.
Then she was up set when she found out I was looking to buy something for myself. She started to cry a little and asked if I would help her move this weekend. I told her no because it was my weekend and I planned to use it for me. She has always found a reason for me to come over on my weekends, well that will be no more.
She then called me later this afternoon and asked me where I was getting the money for the down payment on my new place. She also didn't like where I was looking to move because it wasn't where she wanted me to move.
She told me that I had to think about my D15 and how she would get home from school. Wow, I have to think about all of this? That's pretty funny since this was all her decision.
As a matter of fact, last time I checked she no longer had a say in anything I do. Through all of this she's still trying to control me.
This morning my W came by the house because it was my weekend and my D4 was sick.
While she was here she was here I told I had rented the house out. She asked me to hold off because she wanted us to see a financial planner to make sure it was the right decision. I reminded her that it was the only decision at this point because the house is worth just as much as we owe since we just refinanced.
Then she was up set when she found out I was looking to buy something for myself. She started to cry a little and asked if I would help her move this weekend. I told her no because it was my weekend and I planned to use it for me. She has always found a reason for me to come over on my weekends, well that will be no more.
She then called me later this afternoon and asked me where I was getting the money for the down payment on my new place. She also didn't like where I was looking to move because it wasn't where she wanted me to move.
She told me that I had to think about my D15 and how she would get home from school. Wow, I have to think about all of this? That's pretty funny since this was all her decision.
As a matter of fact, last time I checked she no longer had a say in anything I do. Through all of this she's still trying to control me.
Just tell her that she has to trust the decisions you will be making now because you've had to go along with all of the decisions she has made recently that affected you and your family.
No need to be mean or punitive.
I haven't, nor will I be mean about anything. It's to the point now that if I wonder about something I don't even bother to bring it up. I just figure at this point it doesn't matter.
I know she's stressed about something because she's been very quiet and she cleaned when she came home. She cleans for no reason when she's stressed.
This morning my W came by the house because it was my weekend and my D4 was sick.
While she was here she was here I told I had rented the house out. She asked me to hold off because she wanted us to see a financial planner to make sure it was the right decision. I reminded her that it was the only decision at this point because the house is worth just as much as we owe since we just refinanced.
Good for you. Hold your ground. If it's the best decision then stick with it.
Then she was up set when she found out I was looking to buy something for myself.
Did she tell you why she was getting upset?
She started to cry a little and asked if I would help her move this weekend. I told her no because it was my weekend and I planned to use it for me. She has always found a reason for me to come over on my weekends, well that will be no more.
Good. A boundary. Stick to it. I had bought luggage for my trip last week with my kids. My W is taking a cruise with her entire family, except our kids. I thought about offering her my new luggage to use. But I rethought it. She's treating me like a mat, lying and fabricating events and attempting to get a court order. I think I'll keep the luggage to myself.
She then called me later this afternoon and asked me where I was getting the money for the down payment on my new place. She also didn't like where I was looking to move because it wasn't where she wanted me to move.
To tell or not to tell about where you were getting the money depends. Is it money she would be getting half of? Perhaps her inquiry is based on the fact she is looking at a life of not owning a home right now and she doesn't want you to. Misery loves company. Maybe it's something else.
She told me that I had to think about my D15 and how she would get home from school. Wow, I have to think about all of this? That's pretty funny since this was all her decision.
Just assure her you have your daughters best interest at heart.
As a matter of fact, last time I checked she no longer had a say in anything I do. Through all of this she's still trying to control me.
The only say she has is something that affects your ability to co-parent, decisions you make regarding your D which are joint decisions, anything that directly impacts your W.
I'll give you a great example of my W's moves. I had my S Sat night. It's my W's weekend, but we had a minor league ballgame to go to for the cub scouts. The plan was for my S to sleep at my brother's house - that's where I stay when my W has the kids. So we stayed only for a few innings because he got bored. He's still adjusting to the time zone change since we got back on Thu. He was up late Sat night and woke up late on Sun. About 15 min after she picked him up I get a text asking what time he went to bed and what time he woke. My W said she was asking because she wanted to know where he was at in his sleep pattern because he was starting summer camp Mon (today) and she had to get him up by 7.
I know my W. It was irrelevent where he is in his sleep pattern. He told her we watched two episodes of Star Wars, he woke up late. We're in the middle of a custody battle and she is constantly trying to find things to hold against me. So rather than give her the times, I suggested she not let him nap, put him to bed on time, wake him up at 7am on Mon. If he is tired he will fall asleep on time on Mon night.
Well she didn't like that answer. She texted a few more times asking for the specific times. I ignored them. An hour later I get a text and she tells me my S has a Dr. appointment Mon at 4:40. Well I have both my kids at that time. I sent a text telling her she needs to consult with me before she schedules anything for my kids when it's my time to have them.
I told her I made plans after they get home. If she wanted to take hiim during the day she could. If not, she can handle it when she has him, or I'll handle it when I have him. I said it wasn't urgent and it's something we saw the Dr for 3 weeks ago. A minor skin condition which had cleared up on one part of his body but now showed up on another. Most likely poison ivy. My W is like Chicken Little.
Of course I get no text back. She won't address the fact she needs to talk to me before making any appointments during my time with my kids.
This morning I get a text asking me if I stopped giving my S his medication for his anxiety. I sent her a text back telling her I followed the plan we made with my S psychiatrist where we would taper him off every two weeks and get him off the meds for the summer.
My W then sends a text to my SIL telling her how mad she is at me for not telling her I took him off the meds... blah, blah, blah. My SIL called me and asked, "Why the hell is she calling me? I don't care about her complaints. She acts like I'm one of her girlfriends..." I laughed. I did exactly what we had agreed to do, and still that warranted some kind of complaint.
So you see tbart, you're not the only one who is being peppered with control stuff from the spouse. I sat there wondering if I have to deal with this kind of crap for the next 14 years till my D is 18. I really hope not.
stressed?
well that's an easy one,
she made decisions regarding everyone's future (including her own) without fulling weighing the consequences of those decisions, it was easy when she only visualized the positive results of her decisions but when she starts to encounter the possible negative side effects, all of a sudden it's not as great an idea.
Fantasy is great until it finally collides with Reality, when it does "fantasyland" aka "planet fruitopia" disappears pretty damn quick!
lol robx. I like the way you put that.
It's a bit of shock when the WAS realizes the amazing fantasy life they imagined isn't reality. When it hits them head on it does have a bit of a shocking impact. My W just drinks her shocks away. But that's just a numbing...the stuff is still in there even though the alcohol is keeping it from rising to the surface.
My SIL said to me yesterday - "It will be interesting to see how this all pans out for her."
Only time will tell. We are still battling over crap, so there isn't a real finality to any of it yet. She has a battle she can fight; a reason to claim victim-hood; someone to complain about and blame for everything (yours truly); a mother who jumps on the bandwagon with her; friends and family that won't call her on her BS.
What will happen when all of that finally disappears?
Who knows, if ever. My X-inlaws dont even know the half of it and partly because they dont want to get involved or bury thier heads in the sand. Meanwhile, the Xw complains about having bad karma and continues to beleive that she is not responsible for her decisions.
End the end, it does not matter. It is now about you, and the world no longer revolves around the WAS.
Sounds like you guys are in a much better place than me. What I am saying is that I wish I were you. You guys sound much healthier, like you have just about gotten control of your life, your own life with out codependancy of another person to give them happiness. Way to go. Jeff
Jeff,
Be careful when you compare you're insides to someone else's outsides. It just doesn't work.
A friend once said to me:
If everyone took your life crap and put in a bag, then threw it in a big pile in the middle of the room, and everyone got to see it all, you'd be scrambling to get your bag back.
Unfortunately the W and kids will be moving out this weekend. This was a step I had known was coming. but I was hoping could still be avoided.
It just kills me to know that everything I worked for to ensure my children would have was for the most part for nothing. They still have me and always will, but there family home and life as they knew it has been stripped.
It's very sad how the WS gets so selfish and destroys everyone in there family. I'm hanging in there as best as i can, but it still hurts like hell.
I definitely don't show any emotion about this in front of my W. She has the power to turn this insanity off, but lacks the ability. This isn't where I envisioned my life going, but then again I'm sure none of us ever did.
I'm assuming you have joint custody and didn't settle for being a weekend dad, you will adapt and your kids will too ;-)
I will still get to see them everyday, except for two weekends a month. That was most important to me.
you mean you will have primary custody of your kids?
No, it's joint custody with her as domicilary. I get to pick up D4 from daycare everyday and take her to my house. My D15 will come to my house after school. When my W gets off work she'll come pick up the kids. Thankfully, she also thinks that it's important for me and the kids to see each ther often.
tbart I'm not sure what state you live in, but here in NY there are two terms for custody. One is legal custody and the other is physical custody. Most often joint custody is awarded for legal custody. That's the decision making process for different issues regarding the children - both parents have to come to an agreement on these things before they can be done. The other custody is physical custody. That's the one which is visitation and dictates who pays child support to the other party.
Did you get any overnights during the week with your D's? I'm fighting for actual 50/50 physical custody, or close to it. After the psych evaluation, the rotation the psychologist suggested as a guideline basically gave me a little over 40% during the school year and 50% during the summer and all their school breaks.
I was just wondering if you're giving her too much in the physical custody department. Also, in NY a 15 year old has a lot of power in deciding who she wants to live with, how often they want to see each parent, etc...
I know it really sucks man. But I just want to make sure you don't make a mistake I nearly made early in this separation/divorce process. I almost rolled over and gave her what she wanted in the hopes of not rocking the boat and killing any last chance of reconciliation.
I'm glad I listened to the family and friends I have who slammed me with 2x4's and woke me up to fight for myself and my rights concerning my children.
We have joint legal custody where we make mutual decisions on everything involving the children.
Yesterday my W comes home and asks me if I want to go to the store with her. On our way to the store she turns off my radio and tells me that she's thinking lately about the two of us getting back together.
I'm absolutely floored and caught off gaurd about this. She starts talking about finances, and says how she's worried that we wont be on the same page about spending/saving money.
She said she's been thinking about what I said way back about us not knowing if we could make it unless we live together and try. She says that she thinks that this may be true.
We talked at great detail about things. I still don't know what to make of this. It still isn't something set in stone, but the fact that she's even considering it amazes me.
I was ready to move on, and was making all the steps to do so. Now i don't know what's going to happen. I'm sure we will press on with the direction we've been going because she's obviously still unsure. However just last week she didn't give us a chance.
She claims this has to do with the time and sapce she's been asking for. She may not acknowlege or think about what I say at the moment, but she says she does eventually digest and process.
I just really don't know what to do or think at this point.
you tell her:
"I'm not sure anymore, after going through this entire process, I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you or us as a couple, I've had to get used to the idea of not being with you and not being married because that's all you've wanted for the last several months and honestly I've lost some trust in you since you were willing to split us and our family apart I've had a lot of thinking to do on my part, you feel like considering the two of us getting back together again now but your feelings unfortunately seem to change regularly, and they may change again and that's something I have to consider and I would need to be able to trust you and your commitment to us, I don't want someone to stay with me just because of money, I want something better for me and the person I'm with. That's just me being honest, I hope you can understand that."
You've been pursuing her for so long,
now you turn it around,
you reject her indirectly,
you've had an awakening now,
you've been doing some thinking,
maybe this is for the best,
you don't want someone who is flakey and changes their mind every other day about the relationship they have with you,
you want better,
you're worth better.
It's counter-intuitive and it works, regardless of her initial reaction to you saying this. It's a soft rejection, you're not turning down the idea but you are taking her side on this issue where for the longest time you were on the opposite side of her on this issue. You adopt her thought and mindset on this when she didn't want to be married. This enables her to pursue you, this gives you higher value, this is what she wants, she wants to pursue you (or another man) that she can't have, give her what she wants (indirectly).
The idea is, YOU need time to think about this, it's your decision now, don't just jump at the offer she's giving you, you will get slammed down again. Make her work for it, make her show you she is committed to you and your family and not just because of money security issues.
The real question is, can you pull it off?
The real question is,
can you pull it off?
I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
you tell her:
"I'm not sure anymore, after going through this entire process, I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you or us as a couple, I've had to get used to the idea of not being with you and not being married because that's all you've wanted for the last several months and honestly I've lost some trust in you since you were willing to split us and our family apart I've had a lot of thinking to do on my part, you feel like considering the two of us getting back together again now but your feelings unfortunately seem to change regularly, and they may change again and that's something I have to consider and I would need to be able to trust you and your commitment to us, I don't want someone to stay with me just because of money, I want something better for me and the person I'm with. That's just me being honest, I hope you can understand that."
and she responds:
Wait, you lost me. Back in the beginning, before of the whale hunt. And who was Queequeg? Or was that the boat? No, the boat was the Pequod. Peleg, Bildad, Starbucks. All these names. It so confusing. Pip goes insane but Gabriel was insane... ahhhhh, nevermind. Lets back up, you said something about money.
i might say:
Why don't we just take it slow. Wanna go for a beer.
Now we go to lunch together, and she tells me that she's going to pack and her and the girls are going to move.
She reminds me that she said she was only telling me that she was considering it, but never said she would do it.
She told me that she's tired of drama, and thinks it would be easier to just move out. She says something is always going to come up and she doesn't think she can deal with it.
Once again, I'm being jerked in two different directions. I know these things take time, but damn. this roller coaster is no fun at all.
you aren't being jerked around,
you are being tested,
and despite what she says about being tired of the drama,
she loves it,
she generates 99% of it herself,
use the script I provided,
I knew she was going to flip flop like this,
which is why I provided you with the script,
she is going to bring it up again, I guarantee it,
you aren't giving her anything to chase so she gets bored quickly, you're there standing by ready to say "YES! YES! YES!" and that's way too easy for her, let her work for it, display your value, otherwise continue complaining about being jerked in two different directions - lead in your direction and let her follow you otherwise let the "jerking" continue.
;-)
"Why don't we just take it slow. Wanna go for a beer."
just one?!
you tell her:
"I'm not sure anymore, after going through this entire process, I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you or us as a couple, I've had to get used to the idea of not being with you and not being married because that's all you've wanted for the last several months and honestly I've lost some trust in you since you were willing to split us and our family apart I've had a lot of thinking to do on my part, you feel like considering the two of us getting back together again now but your feelings unfortunately seem to change regularly, and they may change again and that's something I have to consider and I would need to be able to trust you and your commitment to us, I don't want someone to stay with me just because of money, I want something better for me and the person I'm with. That's just me being honest, I hope you can understand that."
you aren't being jerked around,
you are being tested,
and despite what she says about being tired of the drama,
she loves it,
she generates 99% of it herself,
use the script I provided,
I knew she was going to flip flop like this,
which is why I provided you with the script,
she is going to bring it up again, I guarantee it,
you aren't giving her anything to chase so she gets bored quickly, you're there standing by ready to say "YES! YES! YES!" and that's way too easy for her, let her work for it, display your value, otherwise continue complaining about being jerked in two different directions - lead in your direction and let her follow you otherwise let the "jerking" continue.
robx is dead on right with this. Two months ago I was right where you are, even further, as my W was saying she DID want to get back together, and consistently maintained that stance for over a month. I made it too easy for her, and now she's back to "wondering" about it. Listen to robx, follow his advice. I wish I had two months ago!
And yes, no matter what they say, they LOVE the drama. My W was oscillating between despair and elation all last year, and now she says "All I want is peace in my life." BS!
Really, so when she came back did you just lay down and lose all your dignity or what? You made it to easy to come back? What exactly did you do wrong. I thought when they came back that you were supppose to be this changed nicer person. Sounds like you did that and they bored. Relationships might be just to hard for me to handle. To complex.
This morning when I came to pick up my boat she starts going over the budget with me. She explains all the different scenarios going through her head.
She's still wants badly to try and get back together, but she's afraid to sacrifice herself. She want's me to hold off on getting the rental leese signed for our house until Monday.
She wants to think this all through, because she may want to keep the house and have me move back in. Her other scenario is for us to continue to sell the house, and have us move to our rental property. It's no where as nice a place or in as nice of a place, but it's allot cheaper.
This gets more dang confusing by the day let me tell you. I don't want to make the wrong move, but I would entertain the option of us giving it another go.
Since I moved out and we stopped actively trying to work on the R the pressure has been off. We communicate better and do things together more freely than when we were trying and forcing things.
you keep wanting different results but you keep doing the same things, you keep asking the same questions and we keep giving you advice but you want to do things your way, something that is less frightening because you're afraid to lose her but continue to ask the same questions when you keep getting the same results.
We communicate better and do things together more freely than when we were trying and forcing things.
Do you really believe that?
Your recent posts would suggest something different, are you trying to convince us or yourself?
Robx, comment on my thread, par4me, i read your stuff all the time.
You are being jerked around.
Take it slow, let her take it easy
have some fun without her rather than being jerked around by her
tbart, when I read your post from yesterday at 12:45 the first thing that popped into my head was this - Keep doing what you're doing and keep moving in the direction you are moving...detaching and moving forward without her.
robx and the others gave you awesome advice as I read through the rest of the posts.
Read robx's script over and over and over till it's burned into your brain. It's a move I wish I had made two years ago. Take the ball out of her hands - it's not like it isn't the truth.
The truth is this: You've posted over and over again how you aren't sure you even want to be with the person she has become. She gives you the impression she is closer than ever about moving back in and working on it, then the next day she's home packing her stuff to move out.
SHE tells you to hold off on signing the lease until Monday. I would go ahead and get the lease signed when you were planning on getting it signed and stop letting her control when things get done.
You have stated over and over that you are ready to move forward, you are moving forward, you have serious doubts about wanting to even be with her now, you deserve someone who wants to be with you etc....
But then, every time she drops a change on you, you're ready to drop all of this and jump right back in. Can you see the incongruence? She is testing you - whether it's on a conscious or unconscious level.
You said above -
I don't want to make the wrong move, but
Take some time and answer this question - How do you know if a move is the right or wrong one? How could you possibly know? You have no idea how anything will play out no matter which decision you make. The only way you can know what is the right move is to have some kind of set and fixed point where you make your decisions from. That's the easy part, and this is what I've learned -
You make the best decision on what is right for YOU. That's really the only indicator you can have. Even then we make mistakes and then we need to own the mistakes and make a different decision. If you keep making decisions based on how you think another person will react to your decision you're setting yourself up for constant disappointment. Not only that, but it wouldn't be YOUR life you're living. You'll be living a life that's completely based on other people.
I know it can be interpreted as being selfish, but in reality it isn't. Your wife will respect you drawing boundaries, making decisions, following through with decisions based on YOUR OWN values - regardless of the opinions of others. It's taken me 45 years to figure this out, and I'm still new to it, but you know what? I've regained my masculine power. I have regained the power that will flow through you as a man when you are lined up with, making decisions and taking action from YOUR point of power.
It can be a very hard concept to wrap your head around, but it's the solution you, me, and a ton of other people in this place need to grasp and implement.
You take the bull by the horns. You tell her you're going to lease the house out because you can't sit there and base that decision on her waffling emotions and constantly changing mind. You tell her if things will move where they move and you will take control of what is in YOUR life and no one else's.
Tell her you are unsure of the two of you. You have grown un-trusting of her position because it seems to change day to day. You know who you are and what you stand for. You aren't sure if her current state fits into the picture of your life. You need time to think, organize and make decisions about the direction you want your life to move in. Stop allowing your decisions to waffle like hers are - hers are waffling due to her own internal strife, yours are waffling due to HER decisions waffling. She's actually controlling yours. Snatch the control back.
There's nothing wrong with saying: The other day you were talking about possibly getting back together and moving back in. The next day you were packing stuff to leave. I am no longer going to allow my decisions to waffle with your day to day changing of your mind. I will make my decisions based on the fact we are separating. You can change your mind all you want, but I will continue to move in that direction regardless of your ever changing emotions. When you land 100%, without a doubt, on the direction you are totally sure you want to take, then let me know. Even then I'll keep moving this way until I feel totally assured it's the direction you want and it isn't going to change over and over. It will be up to you to find the way to convince me because I'm growing tired and weary of living like this.
Tell her the demons she is struggling with are hers to figure out. You can't help her with that because you are busy figuring your own life out.
Now that is you drawing boundaries, taking a firm stand to be true to yourself, it communicates you are tired of being jerked around from one direction to another, etc....
About the same post as mine. She is a liar. She tells you one thing and does something else. Let her go is what I am doing. I wouldn't take that idiot back if she begged. She did beg me back i accepted and forgave. Three days later she denied it all. I say to screw them. If they dont want the r with you then find someone else or be happy alone. It is better than the misery that all this is going to put you through. The waiting and hoping to get lied to and betrayed.
I just want t make sure I'm clear on what you guys are all saying. Are you suggesting to balk at the opportunity to get back together at this time and continue to move on?
well what I am saying is that anytime she brings up talk of possibly getting back together again, you tell her that it sounds like a good idea but she got you used to living apart and this whole divorce idea so you're not sure anymore if this is the right thing to do right now, you're not sure how you feel about you or her, being married, etc. you've gotten accustomed to the idea of a single life and being a single parent and you've adjusted and you've maintained a decent attitude throughout all of it and maybe you need some space and time to think about things.
It's a soft rejection, since she flip flops on her own idea several times, you start doing the same and watch her push the idea of getting back together with you even stronger than before.
Let her come up with the reasons why you should be together and work it out.
The real question is,
can you pull it off?
I know what you're thinking. "Did he fire six shots or only five?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement I kind of lost track myself. But being as this is a .44 Magnum, the most powerful handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?
Sweetness.........
you tell her:
"I'm not sure anymore, after going through this entire process, I'm not sure how I feel anymore about you or us as a couple, I've had to get used to the idea of not being with you and not being married because that's all you've wanted for the last several months and honestly I've lost some trust in you since you were willing to split us and our family apart I've had a lot of thinking to do on my part, you feel like considering the two of us getting back together again now but your feelings unfortunately seem to change regularly, and they may change again and that's something I have to consider and I would need to be able to trust you and your commitment to us, I don't want someone to stay with me just because of money, I want something better for me and the person I'm with. That's just me being honest, I hope you can understand that."
You've been pursuing her for so long,
now you turn it around,
you reject her indirectly,
you've had an awakening now,
you've been doing some thinking,
maybe this is for the best,
you don't want someone who is flakey and changes their mind every other day about the relationship they have with you,
you want better,
you're worth better.
It's counter-intuitive and it works, regardless of her initial reaction to you saying this. It's a soft rejection, you're not turning down the idea but you are taking her side on this issue where for the longest time you were on the opposite side of her on this issue. You adopt her thought and mindset on this when she didn't want to be married. This enables her to pursue you, this gives you higher value, this is what she wants, she wants to pursue you (or another man) that she can't have, give her what she wants (indirectly).
The idea is, YOU need time to think about this, it's your decision now, don't just jump at the offer she's giving you, you will get slammed down again. Make her work for it, make her show you she is committed to you and your family and not just because of money security issues.
The real question is, can you pull it off?
Saved for my future reference, Thanx Robx, you KNOW this is how it works and I'm waiting for my turn. I can feel it coming.
Do it Tbart!
What robx said.
tbart, I know it sounds very counter-intuitive. But look at the track record:
Every time you pulled away she chased. Whenever she started to come back, you started to act like a kid who was getting what he wanted, some reason came up in you that it wasn't going fast enough, far enough, etc...(pursuing behavior), you guys got into a fight, she ran straight to D talk.
She says lets get back together, you say, ok. Then you, not intentionally or blatantly, start to do the 'happy dance' inside yourself. You change from the tbart moving away and moving forward, to the tbart who desperately wants to keep his family and R together. Then she waffles.
Look, you have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Take stock of where you REALLY ARE RIGHT NOW. Where are you internally? Where are your emotions? Where on the scale is your desire to be with this woman? Be brutally honest. Lay your insides right in front of yourself.
No one here is saying don't take an opportunity to fix your marriage. We're saying don't jump every time she shows signs of going that way. Next time take a more laid back approach.
If you read the words robx has written as a 'script' you'll see there is no rejection of getting back together. I think you'll also see it's really where you are at inside yourself. You have doubts, and every time she pulls some crap or waffles back and forth about working on the M, your doubt grows.
It's the only way to get her to pursue you and for you to take back control of the situation.
I saw it perfectly written at this place:
The person who cares least about the relationship controls the relationship.
And also:
How can a person chase something that isn't moving away?
Digest this page of posts. Really take a good hard look at it. I can tell you are confused by the last question you posted. This method isn't an extreme, it's not even close to one.
Also, I think it was Coach who wrote somewhere in a post that when his W showed signs of reconciliation he just went ahead with his life as he was doing. He wanted to make sure she was really committed to it and he knew if she really was, she would keep pursuing the issue. He made her work to have him.
The more they work at trying to reconcile the more investment they have in doing it. Plus it will show her real desire - if they don't want you they won't come looking. If they want you, nothing can stop them from working hard to get it.
I get what you guys are saying. I stayed away all weekend boating, and she was sending me random text messages. That's not something she normaly does, so I knew she was just trying to see if I would respond. I actually ignored the messages and replied back the next morning.
When I went to the house to drop my boat off she told me that she hadn't yet made a decision. I told her that it's pretty simple. Either she wanted to be with me or she didn't, and if she really wanted to be with me she's make that decision. I told her that since she cant' then we need to continue doing what we're doing and I'll move on.
She said that she agreed to give me her decision by Monday and to wait. I let her know that I didn't expect her decision to change and that I will continue doing what I'm doing.
Last week she agreed that I would leave once she got home from work. Up until now, I was staying at the house for dinner. Yesterday my D4 asked if I was staying for dinner tomorrow, and before I could say anything my W told her yes.
This woman is very confused and loses control when she doesn't have the control.
I'm still pressing forward until this woman can show she's ready to commit to me and the R.
I think you're missing the point. Why are you letting it be her decision? Can't you see by doing that you are giving away all your POWER and LEVERAGE?
Hold the line. Let her know what YOU have decided.
PMA
This woman is very confused and loses control when she doesn't have the control.
Never mind her, I'm confused.
Which house is this?
Isn't she in the rental and you're in the house?
No, I moved out a few months back while her and the kids stayed at the house. Now her and the kids will be moving into the rental permantly. My W can't afford the mortgage on the house.
On the weekends I have the kids she goes to the renatl and I stay at the house. The idea was to leave the children in there house and neighborhood with there friends.
Now that she's made the decision to proceed with the D, I told her that she had to move so that we can each start our new lives.
I just want t make sure I'm clear on what you guys are all saying. Are you suggesting to balk at the opportunity to get back together at this time and continue to move on?
that you asked this question tells me you do not really know yourself. never mind that she is confused herself, but if you do not completely understand yourself as an individual how would define your part of collective or in a collaborative sense/relationship?
I get what you guys are saying.
No you don't. Not yet. But I think you're teetering right on the edge of getting it. You just need a bit of nudging by us to get you to drop off the edge into what you think is a bottomless abyss.
I stayed away all weekend boating, and she was sending me random text messages. That's not something she normaly does, so I knew she was just trying to see if I would respond. I actually ignored the messages and replied back the next morning.
Sounds like when you move away she chases.
When I went to the house to drop my boat off she told me that she hadn't yet made a decision.
I'm a little confused here. Decision about what? The marriage, the divorce, selling the house, moving into the rental...???
I told her that it's pretty simple. Either she wanted to be with me or she didn't, and if she really wanted to be with me she's make that decision. I told her that since she cant' then we need to continue doing what we're doing and I'll move on.
Ok, this tells me you still don't get what you're being told here. That's ok. It can be a bit paradoxical and scary. You're basically telling her if SHE wanted to be with you SHE would decide to do that. You're going to move forward because you don't see HER changing her mind. Go read robx's 'soft rejection' script again.
She said that she agreed to give me her decision by Monday and to wait.
This one is interesting. I'm assuming she's going to give you a decision whether she wants to work on the marriage or not. Is there some magic wand that's going to wave in front of her on between now and Sunday that's going to give her that answer? I'm not sure how someone can put a definitive time limit on something as complex yet as simple as the decision she is going to make.
I let her know that I didn't expect her decision to change and that I will continue doing what I'm doing.
Here you are still putting the decision in her hands.
You're saying, "Look, I'm here willing to work on the marriage. You're telling me you are going to give me an answer by Mon. I don't expect you to change directions because after all, you're in charge of where this relationship heads, not me. (you keep delivering the power into her hands) I'll just keep moving forward (although I'm really not because I'm still allowing you to decide whether we'll be together or not). But I will instantly change direction if you make a different decision(In other words, when you jerk the chain, I follow the pull).
Last week she agreed that I would leave once she got home from work. Up until now, I was staying at the house for dinner. Yesterday my D4 asked if I was staying for dinner tomorrow, and before I could say anything my W told her yes.
And why didn't you say, "Well actually I'm not. I have some very important things to attend to." (You snatching control back. The decision was made where you were going to leave once she got home from work - you allowed HER to control whether that was going to happen). It seems counter-intuitive, but your W would have had a definite reaction had you done that. You would snatch back control of your life. YOU decide what YOU are going to do...not HER. This was a perfect opportunity to gain back some control - it presents very little risk (in your mind; in my mind, I see no risk at all) with a big payoff.
This woman is very confused and loses control when she doesn't have the control.
Yes she is. And you're following the bouncing ball right along side of her.
I'm still pressing forward until this woman can show she's ready to commit to me and the R.
How about pressing forward until you decide you are ready to commit to the R?
I asked you some pretty tough questions a few posts back. Take the time to post your answers.
tbart, I really feel for you man. This concept is so simple, yet it appears to be invisible when someone is in your position. It was invisible to me when I was there. If you can grasp it, you'll go ah ha.
What do YOU want tbart?
tbart,
ragman is a user on this forum that can benefit from the experience and perspective you gained from situation when returning home from your service overseas.
I'm hoping you login every now & then, maybe you can give us an update and post a comment on his thread as well.
thinking of you bro, hope you're doing good, enjoying your summer vacation time with the kids ;-)
Sorry I'v been away and haven't given any updates. I had moved away completely and started to get my personal afairs in order. I was rarely around a computer long enough to post.
What I found as I did this was my W and I started to interact differently with all the pressure off. We still had bad moments, but there were little breakthroughs alomg the way.
As a result my W sent me a text message the other morning telling me that she wanted to drop the D. If you recall I made it very clear that we would not get back together unless she could committ 100% to me. Also, I told her that having the D hanging over my head wasn't fair either.
She says that she has missed me, and listed specifics. She said that she wants to be with me and go all in. She told me that she would completely understand if I decided to follow through with the D.
She doesn't need to make a decision today, tomorrow, or a month from now. She just wants me to think the entire thing through.
She's wanting to comply with I told her 2 months ago it would take for me to want her back. we have discussed many issues and what our expectations would be at great lengh.
I have a hard time not wanting to give our 18 year M another chance. She has finally come around to what I had asked of her. Yet I still struggle to jump in.
I feel I want to give this another chance, and I feel that I will. This is a rare opportunity for a couple that was so close to being divorced. This could be very rewarding based upon the knowledge we're now armed with.
We have opened up and talked about what has bothered us for so long. We have a btter understanding of what the other wants and needs. We have learned to communicate openly and honestly with one another.
This is where my situation is. It appears as though we have come full circle.
Wow, tbart!!
This sounds fantastic. A "good news" story for a change.
You still have a decision to make. But it's your decision.
And this is still about "TIME"
I'm too new at this to weigh in with advice but it sure is good to see something about D-bombs being "recalled" and "WAS looking back to the M"
Well my W isn't wavering from her stance to reconcile. She even initiates hugs and touches. She doesn't tell me that she loves me, but she does tell me that she still loves me.
We continue to talk things over, and we've planned to get together this weekend to discuss our expectations from one another once I move back in.
We're both scared of how things wil be, but we both want to see us back together. That's why we're taking our time and talking these things through.
I'm still floored that she has decided to drop the D. This speaks volumes compared to before when she wanted to keep the D going while we tried to work it out. That scenario was doomed to fail from the beginning, and it did.
She's trying to come back under the terms I had set forth months ago. She made it clear she needed time to see my consistency, and to make sure she could come back at 100%. If she was unable to come back at 100%, then we both agreed she wouldn't come back.
This is and will remain a work in progress. We both know that we have a long tough road ahead of us, but it's a road we're both willing to go down now.
T-Bart
I am so happy to read about the change in your situation!!!!
Please learn from my mistake. Almost 5 years ago, I "busted" our divorce and thought I had saved my marriage. Over a period of time, I allowed myself to go back to old habits and now we are separated and there is little hope of reconciling this time.
So...learn from me and no matter how good things feel some day, remember your lowest point and continue your efforts forever. You deserve to enjoy the greatest marriage possible. Enjoy, but always remember where you were.
That's our biggest concern is that we'll revert back. We're getting together this weekend to discuss what each of us expects from the other. We both agree that if we can't make it past that part, then it will impossible.
I think that getting together to discuss these things is a huge first step. At least we'll have a clear understanding of what the other wants and needs. this will allow us to ecide if we can do it, and to try and give what the other needs.
Good luck Tbart! I'll be rooting (and praying) for you two!
I should be excited that my W wants to get back together, but I'm not. I keep thinking about things, and the thought is difficult.
I'm glad we're going to give it another try, but I still fear she wont be able to fully come around. She say's she's in this all the way, but I still have reservations.
I know that I can give 100%, but I question wether or not she can. She still maintains the same stance she did the day she told me. That in itself is amazing, being that she was unable to maintain for a day before.
I guess I'm still skepticle until we have our scheduled conversation on Saturday. We have it for Staurday because we don't want to have to take time away from the kids.
I'm still grateful that this opportunity has been presented to me, but I'm just more nervous than I thought i would be.
tbart,
haven't followed your sitch since the beginning, I will read more.
I might be in the same boat with you as far as W wanting to work on M.
Not sure but could be a possiblity.
I am confused whether or not if I want to work on M.
Good luck and may you find what your looking for.
gr8
Good to see you back. Quick piece of advice, if you're away from the boards for a little while and then come back, find the people who were following your thread and let them know.
I should be excited that my W wants to get back together, but I'm not. I keep thinking about things, and the thought is difficult.
tbart, this is
absolutelynormal. We spend all this energy and time trying to change ourselves and REVERSE the direction that when it does reverse, we start to feel our own resentments, fears, complaints, etc...
Moving back in - I would re-consider this if I was you. At least to think about not jumping right back in. Maybe some vets can chime in here but often the separation is the catalyst that makes things reverse. That space got her to miss you and want you back; it showed her what she actually missed about you.
There is some discussion about this in the DR book.
I would definitely advise you to seek out some feedback from people who have had experience in piecing.
I'll see if I can get Coach to come over and give you some feedback.
Now for what I see as positive - the very fact she was being specific about what she missed is positive.
Now for the work. This is what I would do.
Both of you make a list of the things you didn't like about the marriage. Be very specific with specific examples of it. You have to do this with your ego's on the side. You need to be able to do this without either one getting all wrapped around the axle.
No 2 - Make a list of your fears about moving forward. Have her do it also.
Take those lists and bring them here. There are so many people here who can help you guys address them and point you to resources you can use.
Again, that's what I would do. This place has helped you get this far, it can help you go forward from here. A lot of people get to the point you're at and then disappear, only to show up later on.
One more piece of advice for you. If you guys successfully reconcile make sure YOU KEEP COMING BACK HERE on a regular basis. This place will keep it green for you and will put you in a great position not to fall back and repeat only to be here in a couple of years.
Take note of what BeTheMan wrote. There's a reason he posted that to you. It's not a coincidence.
tbart, I gave Coach and Puppy Dog a heads up to come over here. They both have experience with piecing a M back together. hopefully they'll get my message and come on over.
This is a critical and crucial junction. Your goal is to keep any mistakes to a minimum. Nothing better than getting advice from people who have already been where you are at and possibly going.
Steady
Thanks for the enlightening post. I may be on verge of W coming around and I too, like tbart, have apprehensiveness.
The suggestions you made were great blue print to work on piecing.
I totally agree with not moving back in too soon. It could do more harm than good.
Good point recommending to keep posting here after R.
I think that's where a lot of people go wrong.
This site is more than stopping D, it's teachs the dynamics of human behavior and relationships.
I'll be following along here.
gr8
My advice would be to "Never accept the first offer."
You are skeptical? Be honest, and SHARE THOSE FEELINGS with your wife. Your position should be "I just don't know anymore."
SLOW AND STEADY.
When you meet, it's "GIVE nothing; EXPECT nothing."
oh, and did I say "SLOW AND STEADY"???
This is a great position to be in, tBart. Don't jump too fast!
Puppy
We're getting together this weekend to discuss what each of us expects from the other.
What does partnership mean to you?
What makes you feel loved?
What are your concerns?
How can you help each other?
What makes you feel respected?
What will it take for trust to be restored?
What do yo need to do better?
What makes you feel like you matter to each other?
Be aware of your marriage. What works,causes connection and attraction. Become aware of what doesn't work.
Don't take things personally. Let her talk and get it out. Show confidence and strength. Reconcile because you decide it's best for you.
Cheers
Thank you guys for chiming in. I thought if this day ever came it would be easy. I'm finding out that this is actually the hardest part besides the initial bomb.
This is actually her third offer for this to happen. I turned her down the other times because I felt it wasn't genuine or for the right reasons.
I see and hear sincerity on her part this time. Ee just want to make sure we do this right. We both agree we need to discuss the things Coach posted. That's what Saturday is all about.
I never thought this day wouold ever come. It seemed like we were too far down the D road. This is now where the work really begins.
tBart ~
She's as scared and skeptical as you are. You don't have to give her an award for that or anything :), but consider it. Let it inform your compassion - this is a difficult decision/move for her to make. Her stomach flip-flopped and dropped before she finally got the nerve to send the tm about dropping the D. She lost sleep. She second guessed. She gulped and sent the tm. Then she wondered if she had done the right thing.
Been there.
You are absolutely correct about the potential for a new marriage. Two people who go through what y'all have been through, learn what you've learned about yourselves and each other, have such an exciting potential for a phenomenal partnership. Much to be hopeful about.
Greek
Coach and Puppy and Greek, thanks for coming over.
By the way tbart, I'm not sure if you know this but Coach and Greek are married. Greek has been where your W is and Coach has been where you are.
Coach and Greek, hope you don't mind pointing that out to him. I think it's important he sees two people who been on both sides that have gone through this and successfully come together.
I'm not sure if you know this but Coach and Greek are married. Greek has been where your W is and Coach has been where you are.
WOW. I didn't know this. I value Coach and Greeks advice too...I can't believe I didn't know this. LOL
Well I learned today that when things are too good to be true, they really are. I got sucked back in, and now I'm too emotionally for anything.
Monday my W wanted to drop the D and go all in. By Saturday she still wanted to drop the D, but she no longer wanted to go all in. Since I mentioned to her my D15 worried we'd create another tension filled environment, she questioned her decision.
Now she wants to get back together, but she wants to take our time and work things out first. We already tried the time and marriage counseling thing. We've been living apart. What more can we do.
Am I reading too much into this? She still want's to work on us, but she doesn't want us to rush back in like she wanted to do Monday.
This is a huge set back for me emotionally. She said the ball was in my court and it was my decision. I made the decision, and she changed the time line.
I can't continue to pretend to be a family and then leave every night.
tbart
piecing is a big step. I haven't but from reading other posts here is the piecing forum they say it is very difficult.
If you jump right into it they say it will fail.
This is a slow process. Read some posts in the pieceing forum if you haven't already.
Now she wants to get back together, but she wants to take our time and work things out first.
Is this all in?
Is this what you want?
When Coach and I talked about putting it back together, we were definitely on the same page about what that meant. No, we didn't know how we were going to accomplish that exactly, but we both agreed that the D would be dropped, I would move back home and we would do the work.
"take our time" may mean "let's agree to be patient with each other b/c neither of us knows what this will take." That's fine.
"work things out" may mean "let's do the work, find help..." Seems fine, too.
I guess it just doesn't seem clear where y'all left it. Can you add more to it?
I understand that she is apprehensive. She probably fears that she is signing up for what she had before - and really neither of you wants that - and neither of you know exactly how to completely eliminate that possibility. That is why "all in" matters so much. Both of you have to fully commit to a new beginning, using all of your new tools and skills, committing not just to each other but to yourselves.
Greek
By Saturday she still wanted to drop the D, but she no longer wanted to go all in. Since I mentioned to her my D15 worried we'd create another tension filled environment, she questioned her decision.
Now she wants to get back together, but she wants to take our time and work things out first.
tbart,
This is awfully vague. Can you be more specific about what she's saying this weekend, so we can better help you?
Puppy
Well we spent all week acting like a married couple, but I still went to my place. Things have been going well and we hadn't talked about anything until our scheduled Saturday talk.
I only agreed to be sucked back in because she agreed to drop the D and go all in. Naturally I had a little apprehension because she seemed to change her mind so fast, so I asked questions. These questions made her question her decision to go all in.
Yesterday we had our talk, and she basically started out with yes she wants us to be back together, yes she wants us to live together, but she wants to take it slow. She's still afraid to let me back in just in case it doesn't work out.
She's afraid that if we do this,she's afraid she'll be unable to give all of her to me. She is what ifing this thing to death. She still wants to work it out, but she's changed the terms.
if I had known it was going to be something other than all in, I would not be where I am right now. I would still be out living my life. Now I have no idea what to do.
So Coach and I are sitting here remembering how we took those first reconciliation steps. And what I told him - and am sharing with you b/c I think it's very relevant - when I started making noises about wanting to come back to the marriage, I knew (b/c Coach made it clear) that dropping the D was a must, that moving home was a must. We talked about MC but that was not one of our conditions. And this is key - I had a strong sense at that time that Coach was not going to (pardon my French) dick around with me on this. I knew that he was not going to let me put one toe in to test the water before I took the plunge. He recognized that it was a big and difficult decision for me. He validated on that point. At the same time, he made it clear that WE had to be all in or all out. I didn't dare test that with him - I could see the strength in him and I showed the proper respect for our decision.
I think you should talk to her about it. Validate her reservations and concerns. But also communicate your position that it's all in or just stay out.
I want to repeat that this is a difficult decision for both of you. I hope she recognizes that you are taking a leap of trust with this, too.
Greek
Greek, so basically if she really wants to be with me she'll respect my all in or all out stance? If she's willing to take a chance and test the waters on this, then she probably didn't really want to work it out?
I told her this morning that I can only do all in. I can't have a D hanging over my head and still be living away. We will never know unless we try. Even if we take the time to work things out, we'll still "what if" moving back in together.
I shared with her some of the things u and coach shared with me. I told her that u were two people talking from experience. I don't want to lose this chance, but it must b all in or I wont survive it.
Greek, so basically if she really wants to be with me she'll respect my all in or all out stance? If she's willing to take a chance and test the waters on this, then she probably didn't really want to work it out?
Not necessarily. It is likely she is afraid, like I said earlier, of signing up for the same thing she LEFT. She may feel like she needs to SEE more of who you are now to know if the new marriage is a possibility. Important for you to continue to practice what you've learned so far. Don't tell her you've changed - show her - and this is a perfect opp. Navigate this part of the path in a strong, decisive way (women like this) staying balanced with the partnership - validate, listen, compassion.
I told her this morning that I can only do all in. I can't have a D hanging over my head and still be living away. We will never know unless we try. Even if we take the time to work things out, we'll still "what if" moving back in together.
I shared with her some of the things u and coach shared with me. I told her that u were two people talking from experience. I don't want to lose this chance, but it must b all in or I wont survive it.
I believe you are correct in this.
Greek
but it must b all in or I wont survive it.
tbart this is weak. Drop it. You will survive anything. This is catastrophizing and predicting the future.
I think you both need to define what 'all in' means. I have a good hunch you both have different definitions of what this means.
You act surprised she is having reservations. We already knew this. YOU posted above that YOU have reservations also. This is normal.
You both have to take a LEAP OF FAITH. You can what if it to death.
What if it doesn't work out - what if it does?
What if we can't get those feelings back - what if you do?
One day my W and I were sitting in MC and she said, "What if 30 years go by and I made a mistake staying and not getting out when I could?"
The MC looked at her and said, "What if you figure out he is the man you could have spent the next 30 years with?"
The point is for every predicted scenario, we can also guess the complete opposite. It is impossible to know.
But I will tell you this - and I believe this is a fact - whatever the two of you aim at is what you will get.
My definition of all in - I will do what it takes to get this to work. I will exhaust every option I have to work this out.
If you both don't get past your individual issues - the issues each of you brought into the marriage - you will end up building the same relationship. What does that mean and how do you do it?
That's for you two to explore.
MC, Retrouville, etc... I can't answer that question for you.
Are you both taking responsibility for your issues? Can you each specifically identify them? Can you see how to get past them?
Are you both willing to do the work?
I would still be out living my life. Now I have no idea what to do.
And why would you ever stop living your life? You both need individual lives as well as a life together. Having individual lives makes sure neither of you loses your individual identity (which I'll bet good money happened to you both); it will give you guys something to talk about; it will also make your time together mean more than the 'old shoe' your marriage probably became.
You both have to define what the boundaries are.
Live in the same house? Stay apart for now?
Date? How many date nights a week?
MC? IC?
Without clarity you're both probably on different pages thinking you know what each other's pages are.
Steady, I know I would survive, but I wouldn't want to put myself or the kids through that again.
I wouldn't stop living my life, but the life I was living has been put on hold.
She now refuses to drop the D and go all in, so the reconciliation is off.
By Saturday she still wanted to drop the D, but she no longer wanted to go all in.
She even reversed course on dropping the D?
This is why you don't bite at their first attempt to reconcile. Jeez. tbart I really feel for you man.
I think she'll still drop the D, but she can't even give me an idea of what she wants or needs.
I don't know what to do. I guess if she dropped the D it would show me she's committed but afraid.
I told her that I understood that she was afraid and that I was too. I comforted her and reassured her that it was ok to be scared. I just can't fix a marriage while I'm getting divorced.
She wants to know you can handle it. Keeping the D open is her lifeboat. She's afraid to get on board. She needs to see your confidence in yourself, she wants to see your plan, she's testing you right now. You need to lead.
Be very firm about what the deal is. She wants to see if you are serious.
Finish this sentence: "I have decided that what is best for me is _________________________________________." Think thru it.
If she would drop the D, I could probably give a little on the all in. Just like she needed to see, not hear my changes. I need to see her commitment, not just her words saying she wants us back.
She knows she can't go all 100% at this time and I can. That's what has her scared. She also said that the fact she wasn't excited when she told me all in had her worried. She felt she should feel some excitement or relief, and she felt no change.
I have validated all of her fears, told her I shared the same fears. It eased her mind, yet she was still willing to let me walk without an answer.
How long do I give her to give me an answer Coach. if she says no now, is that it? Once again, we're back to her time line and control of things.
I feel her wanting to come back is sincere, I just don't like the new terms.
She also said that the fact she wasn't excited when she told me all in had her worried. She felt she should feel some excitement or relief, and she felt no change.
There is your answer. See she is worried because she is not attracted to you. You don't want her back then. Let her go, she will repspect that. Doesn't mean you don't have a chance but your W is not ready yet.
So because it didn't change her attitude it mean she's not attracted to me? I'm not sure I completely follow you on that one, but it's a possibility at this point.
She cried for two days telling me how much she misses me and wants us back together. Yet, for some reason she's unable to take a leap of faith.
I dodn't want to blow an oportunity for us, but I can't wait forever. We have been down the lets take it slow and work things out path before. All it did was cause us to drift further away.
So because it didn't change her attitude it mean she's not attracted to me? I'm not sure I completely follow you on that one, but it's a possibility at this point.
Follow her actions. How did she act when you first were dating, whne things were good in the M?
She cried for two days telling me how much she misses me and wants us back together. Yet, for some reason she's unable to take a leap of faith
Yet she can't go back to the M you currently have. What is she really telling you? She wants to feel excitement, she wants to feel attraction.
tbart to W: "While I understand and share your concerns, I have decided that time will not build a stronger partnership for us - only committing to make the necessary changes will do that. You are clearly unwilling to do that so I have decided to move forward with making a life apart from you."
You could tell her in person, but don't linger. You have to be somewhere so you can't stay. Say it and go. Don't take calls, don't answer texts unless there is a question about kids or money. Do you have L? If not, get one. Start driving this bus.
She doesn't think you will. She may be thinking that she has more Time. Absent a deadline, she may never know what she wants. Give her today as the drop dead date. Best case scenario - she moves in your direction. Worst case - well, what could be worse than where you are now?
Greek
I hate to hear it but Greek you're probably right. She is unwilling to commit to us after telling me she could.
She's willing to test the waters and see if I'm all out. I'm so important to her that she's willing to let me go instead of taking a chance.
This is unfair to me to be expected to wait around for her. She has already shown that she's flighty. She can't make a decision even after making one.
I though this was it for sure. this was different than the other time she said she wanted me back. All she had to do this time was show me she was commited and drop the D.
It's not like I came to her and gave her these demands. She came to me and presented these actions. Now she's telling me that she feels like I'm pressuring her by telling her all in or all out. I believe it was her that said she was all in.
If she lets me walk away, which it apears she is, then I won't be so willing to come back again. This was a huge let down on her part. She told me what she wanted to do and did none of it.
I got sucked in and I feel like a fool. She had me be part of the family for a week. She fooled me and the kids.
If she lets me walk away, which it apears she is, then I won't be so willing to come back again. This was a huge let down on her part. She told me what she wanted to do and did none of it.
I got sucked in and I feel like a fool. She had me be part of the family for a week. She fooled me and the kids.
The way I look at it, you really don't know WHAT she will do when you tell her you've had enough of having a sword hanging over her head. You have not delivered that speech or followed through on it before or yet so you don't know what she will do. But you have to mean it when you say it, b/c she'll test it and doubt it and swat at your resolve b/c she's seen you waiver before. Not this time. This time is different and she needs to FEEL THE IMPACT of how different this moment in time is.
Greek
Well we both agreed to disagree. Seems she won't give what I want, and I won't give what she wants, so the D is on as scheduled.
She just wants to keep "what ifing" and over analyzing everything. She feels that it's too important to keep the D over my head and I feel it's too important to drop it.
I made it very clear that if this was her stance that was it. I would not be coming back the next time she changes her mind. She seems to change it too much and too soon. I can't trust that she really means what she says anymore.
This is unfortunate because she made me think my family was back together. We lived it and did great the past week, yet she still remains the same. I just have to accept that things have gone too far for us to turn back.
I hate to hear it but Greek you're probably right. She is unwilling to commit to us after telling me she could.
Saying something and doing it are two different things. Seems she had an expectation of how she should feel after she told you she was 'all in'. After that expectation wasn't met she got cold feet.
I wonder if she panicked because she felt you moving away and did the only thing she could think of doing to get a hold on you.
She's willing to test the waters and see if I'm all out. I'm so important to her that she's willing to let me go instead of taking a chance.
Perhaps her fear is that great. Some people freeze in the face of fear.
This is unfair to me to be expected to wait around for her.
Of all the posts I've read here never did I see someone say that a person should 'wait around' for their spouse. Don't wait around tbart. If she can't make up her mind, you go keep building the life you want. Build it with the expectation she will not be in your life.
She has already shown that she's flighty. She can't make a decision even after making one.
I'll tell ya...if I only had a nickle every time I read this or experienced it with my WAS....
I though this was it for sure. this was different than the other time she said she wanted me back. All she had to do this time was show me she was committed and drop the D.
In a way it was different. She put more than her pinkie toe in the water. Some people start with looking, then the end of their toe, the pinkie toe, two toes, a foot, then take it out and stand there deciding if they really want to go into that pool. Most people don't just jump right in...like I do most of the time..
It's not like I came to her and gave her these demands. She came to me and presented these actions. Now she's telling me that she feels like I'm pressuring her by telling her all in or all out.
To you it's not pressure because you want to go ALL IN. To her it IS pressure because she is so unsure of what 'the right thing' to do is.
Remember, there's two perspectives here. Yours and hers. For you it's easy to think of all in because you're in the position you're in. If you were in her position, it's possible you wouldn't be able to really stomach all in.
I believe it was her that said she was all in.
Ok. Certainty and believe are two different things. If she said all in then she said it, if she didn't, then how can you possibly hold her to it?
If she lets me walk away, which it apears she is, then I won't be so willing to come back again. This was a huge let down on her part. She told me what she wanted to do and did none of it.
I got sucked in and I feel like a fool. She had me be part of the family for a week. She fooled me and the kids.
tbart don't look at it so much as her fooling you. This implies something that is purposefully done and premeditated.
If you read a few posts into when you 'came back here', you'll notice a few people told you not to bite on the first piece of bait she throws your way.
I think it was Coach (forgive me if I'm wrong Coach)who said something along those lines. When his spouse said she wanted to come back he just kept doing what he was doing. He made her work for it to show how willing and committed she was.
"You know W, I see how unsure you are and how you are flip-flopping in your decision making. Tell you what, you go over there and think about. Figure out what you want to do. In the meantime I'll be heading that way (the direction of your choosing). I make no promises of where I may be if you decide you want to really commit to this, but I do know I'm not going to be sitting here just waiting around."
Re-read what Coach said about attraction.
We mistakenly believe our spouse 'falls out of love' with us, when I'm really starting to understand they just lose their attraction to us. I never believed in the whole 'I fell out of love' stuff so the attraction angle makes so much more sense to me.
you aren't being jerked around,
you are being tested,
and despite what she says about being tired of the drama,
she loves it,
she generates 99% of it herself,
use the script I provided,
I knew she was going to flip flop like this,
which is why I provided you with the script,
she is going to bring it up again, I guarantee it,
you aren't giving her anything to chase so she gets bored quickly, you're there standing by ready to say "YES! YES! YES!" and that's way too easy for her, let her work for it, display your value, otherwise continue complaining about being jerked in two different directions - lead in your direction and let her follow you otherwise let the "jerking" continue.
Go back and read Rob's script again.
How are you going to move the WAW into coming home? A object at rest stays at rest, what will be the force that causes her to move forward? How long did it take her to make the decision to leave, what did she weigh out in her mind? What has caused her to express interest now? What worked on you? You are being watched.
Cheers
If you read a few posts into when you 'came back here', you'll notice a few people told you not to bite on the first piece of bait she throws your way.
My advice would be to "Never accept the first offer."
You are skeptical? Be honest, and SHARE THOSE FEELINGS with your wife. Your position should be "I just don't know anymore."
SLOW AND STEADY.
When you meet, it's "GIVE nothing; EXPECT nothing."
oh, and did I say "SLOW AND STEADY"???
This is a great position to be in, tBart. Don't jump too fast!
Puppy
Hello everyone, I'm back with an update. Things have been really weird since the bottom fell out last time.
After my w changed her mind I felt that this was it. Some months ago I developed a friendship with a female and we talked everyday on the phone. I let my W know about this, and at first she had no issue.
However, the more she thought about it the more she began to dig and prod. I kept trying to hide specifics, but my w would keep catching me in lies.
Even though she was continuing to D me, she acted like I had done her wrong by having a relationship. Keep in mind my W and I have been separated for almost a year now.
We went back and forth for weeks about this. My W even called the girl and asked her to stop talking to me. Me and the friend stopped communicating. Then one day out of nowhere my cell phone rang while my W was standing over my shoulder. My W absolutely flipped out.
This started a huge fight that lasted for days. My W and kids had been staying with me because their mobile home was being moved. She decided she couldn't stay with me, so she went to her friends for a few days.
It got weird on our anniversary. I received a text that morning by her to come unlock my door. I opened the door and she was standing there. I laid down on the couch and she came and laid down next to me and put my arms around her.
This behavior went on everyday for the week. She would hug me, touch me, and kiss me. We even made love for the first time in almost a year.
She said afterwards that she felt like the other woman because I hadn't ended the friendship. I ended the friendship the next day,and I haven't spoke to the other woman since.
That day my W dropped the D, and told me she wants to take it slow. We still discuss the other relationship and live separate. I'm in no hurry to move back in, but it's all still so confusing.
It's puzzling how she can go from acting like she hates me, to laying down with me and dropping the D. We see each other everyday and things seem to be going well.
I have no idea how this will turn out, but it's a bigger step than any other we've had.
tbart thanks for the update,
I know it's been quite a process for you but you did prove that fear of loss/crisis (ie. moving on, letting go of your WAS, finding someone else, etc.) will usually bring a spouse back.
But... she may have dropped the divorce and you guys are taking it slow but that just means you're still living in limbo. No divorce and you don't get to interact with that other woman so your wife doesn't divorce you but keeps you at a distance and you get to continue living separately in this non-relationship marriage relationship you have.
I give you major points for moving on or at least attempting to.
You will soon find out if it's worth waiting for your wife to wake up or of it's time for you to continue moving on and no longer play games with your marriage. After a while a person gets tired of the one foot in/one foot out business, you're either all in or you're all out, no more toleration for in between / limbo status.
Have a nice weekend bro!
I hope John reads this thread and sees what happens. Funny how seeing your spouse dating brings such a strong reaction from the WAS...
Good luck!
It's puzzling how she can go from acting like she hates me, to laying down with me and dropping the D. We see each other everyday and things seem to be going well.
It's not puzzling. Like tbart said, she saw you moving away so she chased. It's really that simple.
Like robx said you have to be careful. Sometimes they will chase until they think they have you again then they go back to status quo. Is she still hugging you, making love, cuddling, etc... since you stopped communicating with the other woman?
I don't think I would have dropped the other woman until I was very convinced my W was committed to working on our M. I would have told her we needed to date and I would have continued to date the other woman. Make my W compete with someone.
But it's easy to armchair quaterback from a distance and not being in the sitch. For all I know I would have done the same thing as you.
But there's no question in my mind, the OW was a catalyst. She took a back seat and she even told you she felt like the 'other woman'.
Just wanted to let everyone know that the reconciliation is still on track. My w and I seem to be able to talk through things that used to derail us in the past.
Even when stuff comes up about the other R, she talks it out with me. She continues to go out of her way to hug me, kiss me, cuddle with me, and hold my hand.
She keeps telling me how much she wants us to remain a couple. She hasn't let anything get in our way. Things that seemed to get in the way before no longer does.
I must say, she seems allot clearer than at any other point during this process. She used to say and do things that made me say WTF, but not anymore.
I'm still being cautious about things. I'm watching her and evaluated things she says and does. We still live separately, and I'm in no hurry to move back together. She has me over everyday, and we're just taking things one day at a time.
Good for you tbart!
Definitely proceed with caution. Continue to moderate her actions.
I am in the beginning phase where my W knows I was dating and now she wants my back.
Stay strong and keep us posted.
That's fantastic,TBart!!
Really happy for you!
Well we might be able to work this thing out. Things have been going very well between my W and I. We even started t make love again. However, she still had doubts and questions about the R I had while we were separated. I had never told my W the truth, even getting caught in lies.
Yesterday I broke down and told her the full extent of my R. She was hurt and shocked, but she still wants to work things out. She needs time to heal from the shock and hurt, but she understands and acknowledges what she's done to get me to that point.
She keeps telling me how much she handled this wrong. How she went about this incorrectly and wishes she wouldn't have done it. She needed time to see that I had really changed. She realizes there were things she should have said to me rather than make me think she hated me. She claims that was just her way of dealing with the situation.
Either way, if we can work through this, I'm pretty sure we can work through anything. I just felt that the only way to move forward was to tell her the truth. It's better she hear it from me, than to find out from someone else.
Hi tbart,
Your thread is very large...please start a new one.
Thanks,
sg-