Hello everyone,
Like many of you I am right smack in the middle of a very long bizarre and terrible journey. I guess I should start at the beginning. I’m going to try and condense and consolidate this as much as I can, but because I‘ve been married for less than a year the background here is very important. My wife and I are both 26 years old. We have known each other for almost a decade. Became friends in high school. Dated casually after high school. Tried to maintain a casual long distance romance which did not work out for various reasons our first year of college, and through all of that became very close friends. We stayed in touch throughout college, got together whenever I was in town, tried to date again a few times on and off; but there was usually some other guy in her life who was more involved with her than I was. It was upsetting, but it was never damaging to our friendship. I knew I was two hours away at school and we didn’t see each other nearly enough to have a real relationship. We were young, and perhaps other opportunities would arise. Still in a way I pined for her in the back of my heart. I did date some other girls here and there, but it was never quite the same.
When I returned from college, my wife was one of the few friends I had around me while I was in a transition phase in my life. Both of us had graduated college, were living with our parents, and having trouble finding a job and moving on to independence. At this time we began to spend a lot of time together as friends and become involved in community theater productions. My wife was now dating another man. Their relationship had been sour for some time, and I did not respect him very much. They had intense fights, and he lead his life very irresponsibly. I am very ashamed of myself now, but at the time it made so much sense for me to try and seduce her away from this man. We had a mostly emotional affair towards the end of her relationship with this person, and that transitioned into a 3 year relationship, a more than one year long engagement, and marriage.
I would describe our dating during these four years (which eventually lead into marriage) as without question the happiest time of my entire life. Neither one of us was perfect, but I feel like we had a very healthy, honest, open relationship and we complimented each other beautifully. I could go on about the highs and lows of dating/engagement and why I consider this a time of discovery, in which we did not have a perfect relationship (as nobody truly does), but suffice to say we did have shared goals and a responsible sincere love for one another that had seemingly endless promise and potential.
Late in our engagement (a few months before the wedding which was now all planned out with invitations sent), my wife began to experience doubts. Cold feet as I thought it was. As much as she sincerely appreciated all that I had done for her and with her, and as much as she felt she wanted to be with me for the rest of her life, she was now grappling with the practicality of being with one person for the rest of her life. External influences on these thoughts were not one, but TWO other men who had confessed an infatuation to her. My wife is an extremely attractive, caring, honest, fun person and I certainly can see why men become attracted to her. And at this time, she was very faithful to me. She saw their advances for what they were and blocked them. But she did indicate to me that she wasn’t so sure she was the marrying type anymore. When asked point blank how I would feel about calling off or postponing the wedding, naturally I told her that I thought it would be a huge step backwards, a big disappointment and embarrassment, and that the long term result of this I couldn’t honestly know. I did indicate that I might not want to stay with her if we didn’t get married. After a brief phase of this uncertainty, during which time I admit I was in a kind of denial about the fact that the wedding might not proceed, she did confide to me that she loved me very much, could see herself spending the rest of her life with me, and sincerely wanted to get married.
The wedding came and went. We were both very happy and in love, and I believe incredibly sincere about our vows and this transition. But a mere 8 months into our marriage we both began to experience doldrums. I thought it would be a passing phase, but for her there was an emotional disconnection that was becoming more and more serious. She was propositioned again by one of the men who had become infatuated with her. They began to spend more and more time together and I began to notice startling changes in her behavior. Immaturity, selfishness, and distance went through the roof. I gradually picked up on the fact that she was having an affair, but by the time I confronted her about it, she was pretty far gone. She resurrected her doubts about the concept of marriage. She told me that she was angry at me for having “given her an ultimatum”. She felt I had threatened to leave her if we didn’t get married and forced her into it, but I really feel like I was just being honest about how I might react. Worst of all she sincerely believed that she was deeply in love and had found some kind of soul mate in her affair partner. To make things worse, this person was a mutual friend and I knew a thing or two about him, the way their friendship worked, the kind of person he was, the kind of mistakes he made, and the way he seduced her. He was a “yes man” to her, a valiant defender, and a hopeless romantic who encouraged and propagated all her fantasies in their minds. As a husband and a partner I always tried to be a loving realist, someone who encouraged her but also strived to give her practical advice about her life and career goals. She had started to resent me and only think negatively about me, while only positively about him.
My wife had been seeing a therapist on her own for a month or so, trying to figure all of this out without informing me of what was happening. After my discovery, we went through a tumultuous but abbreviated period living together with her still seeing this man. It ended with me kicking her out of the apartment for thinking she could see him, spend the night with him, come home to me and have the nerve to be angry at me for making her feel guilty. She was like a completely different person; a cold, uncaring, pleasure-seeker who didn’t care who she hurt or what she destroyed to have a good time. But prior to my having kicked her out she received what I consider to be very questionable advice from her therapist. My wife was told that she should move out, continue to date her affair partner, and see me “at least once a week” to figure things out. I find it very strange that she was told to separate after having been married for less than a year. And I find it impossible for any professional to think that I could be “given a chance” under those conditions. Naturally, she liked this advice. She grabbed it and ran. She could move out, have some freedom and “independence”. Pursue her passion for her affair partner, and see me very little. In fact in the three months since the separation started… she has seen me three times. One of those times was obligatory. The other two were very short encounters that added up to a few hours. We have kept in touch on the phone and through Email as well to an extent. But she does not make an effort to spend time with me.
I’ve been seeing my own therapist since this started, and have been working very hard to figure all of this out, self-reflect, and determine whether or not I should even be with my wife and whether or not she is capable of change. I have determined for myself that yes she is worth it, and yes she does have what it takes to make our marriage work. But my wife spent the first few months of the separation enjoying herself, and sharing her life with her affair partner in a blissful sort of fantasy world. I spent a day trip with her driving to an acting gig I had gotten her long ago, and we had a long productive talk in the car. After that I felt like she was ready to hear some things from me. I had composed several intense, loving, positive, honest letters to her that I had been holding onto. After that week I felt that I finally broke through the bubble of her fantasy life and made her realize what she had done. She began to feel incredible stress and sadness, alternating with the same dizzyingly blissful highs of her now highly sexual relationship with her affair partner. We both began to understand that there was something chemical and addictive about her relationship with him. But on it went. She is experiencing more clarity now, but is so busy and stressed working on a play (with her affair partner as her assistant director!) I don’t believe she will have the time to really give herself the peace of mind to reflect on this until this play is over which is very frustrating to me. The play ends on October 24th (The day before our one year wedding anniversary if this isn’t set up dramatically enough.) And I feel I have to wait this out at least until November to give her the opportunity to settle down.
Recently there was a very eye opening and powerful incident in the saga. My wife was feeling very stressed and overwhelmed about a variety of things including her personal life. She called her affair partner for emotional support. Instead they fought. She told him she was feeling suicidal and had taken sleeping pills with alcohol. He became irritated and hung up on her multiple times. Low and behold I am then awoken at 2AM by a hysterical phone call from her. I was very sympathetic, understanding, and angry at this man who shunned her at a time of such serious crisis. I went over to her new apartment and sat up with her for a while until I felt that she was okay. Over the next week we had very sincere conversations about the reality of the man she was now with vs. the fantasy of what she thought she was going after. But even so, I tried very hard to remind myself that this was far from over. That she would likely continue to see him as they continued to work together. That she would probably slip back into the chemical high for a while even if it was alternating with devastating lows. Naturally that's what happened. After having made a lot of progress and self discovery, I finally had a new devastating moment when I realized they were continuing on. Even though I had tried to prepare myself for it.
Now I'm feeling like I just can't watch this happening anymore. I love her way too much to watch her degrade herself by being with this person. She is a strong, intelligent, compassionate young human being. And she is wasting her time addicted to a forty year old, unemployed, living with his mother, unmotivated grown up child. My wife is the third married woman this man has dated. He doesn't seem to learn from any of his mistakes and he doesn't seem to want to live in reality. And he's perfectly content dragging my wife into fantasy land with him. Granted it was ultimately her choice, so I am just fed up with both of them. I want to give her a chance, but her actions are speaking much louder than her words. I'm beginning to feel very stupid for hanging on and I desperately need to distract myself more. I feel like what I need to do is focus on reacting to her if/when she comes to me, and stop reaching out to her. I just keep setting myself up for disappointment.
That's the story so far. I feel like there are hundreds of solutions out there for us to make our marriage work, but I'm helpless to use them without her. I don't know how long to wait, but I know I could wait for her much longer if she was not dating another man. There are many, many, oddities and interesting details about our situation which I can go into in later posts perhaps. But for now I guess that's it.
Thanks for reading if you got this far!
I guess I'm kind of wondering if there's anyone with a similar situation to mine? I know my first post was a small novel, but basically I'm very discouraged that my wife could do this within the first year of marraige. I know we both contributed to dissatisfaction but I feel like she hasn't really tried at all.
Well, I read the whole thing! You write very well, btw . . . I NEVER read posts that are that long, but you had me pretty riveted.
Your wife sounds, I'm sorry, very immature and a woman who is easily given in to her passions, as opposed to having strong moral character. With no kids involved, are you sure this is what you want? I can't help but feel that she probably just sees you as her fall-back position, and you're going to have nothing but trouble until SHE realizes her issues, and goes thru some serious self-reflection. Unfortunately, it usually takes a crisis to be the catalyst for that.
Do you WANT children? Is this the woman you want teaching your potential future daughters' character?
Puppy
I know we both contributed to dissatisfaction but I feel like she hasn't really tried at all.
Because she
hasn't.
Puppy
Thank you for your thoughts. You are right that she has shown a staggering immaturity throughout all of this. But I've been trying to separate this behavior from who she was before her life was turned upside down.
I think she has had a few wake up calls, but she's finding it too painful to face the reality of how much she's hurt me, and many of our friends and family.
I have done a lot of reflection, and feel very confident that it would be best to get back together with her and make things work. I really don't want any regrets. We've known each other for a decade and been best friends most of that time. Plus I'm certainly not ready to date other women, so I guess the best thing to do now is try and build a fulfilling social life as a single person and let her know I'm still here. Just having a hard time finding things to fill the void.
Plus I'm certainly not ready to date other women, so I guess the best thing to do now is try and build a fulfilling social life as a single person and let her know I'm still here.
I disagree in only one slight -- but very important -- way:
The best thing to do now is to try and build a fulfilling social life as a single person,
and to let her know that you're not sure WHAT you want anymore, and that maybe she was right when she said (fill in her standard relationship complaint HERE).It is the "knowing that you're still here" that is precisely your problem. As long as she knows that you are, she isn't forced to confront her own issues. Let's face it: us humans are pretty much path-of-least-resistance creatures, are we not??
Puppy
True. I don't want her to think I'm the fallback man. But I have already made it clear to her that I won't wait around forever. Her "trial seperation" is supposed to last until January, and I've told her that how long I wait is entirely dependant on her actions. If she's not making an effort by the end of the year, I might not be signing divorce papers yet. But I will probably quit my job and move somewhere exciting and new without regard to whatever she's up to.
I also agree with Puppy on all his points.
If you told her you will wait until January then be prepared for her to continue on status quo until New Year's Eve. Then, maybe, she will come to you and say she's willing to work on things but she needs more time... Get the picture?
You need to start moving forward with your life right now. I'm not advocating that you up and move immediately, but start living the life you want. Make yourself happy. Only when she sees that you will be fine without her will she stop to reconsider what she's doing.
I read the whole novel too and appreciate your writing skills. Your maturity level seems to surpass your W by far. I would heed Puppy's advice if you want to have children: think long and hard about having children with someone who clearly still has a lot of growing up to do.
Thanks. It's nice to have my behavior validated by objective people. We had both always been on the same page that we were in no hurry to have children (we're both 26), but you better believe if we get together I will be VERY careful about conceiving with her until I notice a substantial shift in her emotional maturity.
Posted a minor update in the
other thread I started, and thought I'd pop in here too. I'm trying to sublimate my frustrations a little by posting here more.
Basically I sent her an Email explaining to her why I thought we had a SSM. She finally responded with some gratitude that I was working so hard to figure all of this out. I responded briefly that I agreed with her and tried to give a casual impression that I had "stuff" going on in my own life, and was doing fine.
This weekend I'm going to try and keep very busy with friends, but I don't have any concrete plans yet.
Another update...
Thank you so much to everyone who has given me advice but especially to those who suggested I stop calling/waiting by the phone and GAL.
For about two weeks my contact with W has been very minimal. I've only replied to her Emails (concisely)and have avoided the topic of our relationship. I'm coming to terms with the fact that (for now) our relationship is non existant.
I saw that she had been calling me on the ground line, but did NOT call her back. She left a message and again I let it go. She's been saying that she misses me. Finally she called Sunday night after midnight. I figured it's late so I should answer in case there was an emergency. It was obvious that she is HEAVILY affected by my sudden loss of interest. She misses me, is impressed by how I've started to move on, and is extremely depressed.
But now it's tricky again. She called me again the following night (in tears), complaining about OM (who she can't seem to make happy, surpirse surprise.) But the conversation was very brief and I got the impression that he had called her back or come back to her apartment becasue she quickly ended our call and apologized for dragging me into her problem.
The next day I decided to be safe I'd send a quick "how are you?" Email. I found out she's miserable and behaving in self-destructive ways. She's devastated by her guilt over what she's done to me, and by the fact that the OM is not satisfied by her, and her self-esteem has taken a major blow. I replied, trying to give her the advice I'd give a relative or a friend telling her that OM is selfish and immature and if he's not happy that's his problem. That she is very accomplished and should feel good about herself and not let her mistakes define her. But I tried to leave our marriage out of the equation and make my advice objective.
I decided last night to break my no innitiating contact rule and give her a call out of concern but she didn't answer or call back. Now I'm mostly just concerned for her mental health, but I don't want to seem like I'm pursuing her too much.
My instincts are telling me to continue on my course and just wait until she contacts me even if it takes a week or so. What do you guys think???
I think you were doing great (and it worked), and then you blew it by pursuing.
GO BACK TO WHAT YOU WERE DOING THAT WAS WORKING.
Also, I'm a little shocked that it's considered kosher for her to talk about OM to you? And you give her LOVE ADVICE???? Isn't that emasculating?????
Puppy
You're right Puppy. The problem is, I'd rather blow it a little bit than have her hurting herself. Although at the same time she's not really my responsiblity right now.
And yeah, how odd that she comes to me with OM problems? But at the same time I'm not going to discourage because it confirms for me that things are going sour for them.
My policy has been (starting just over two weeks ago) bare minimal contact. Let her innitiate all contact. Don't call her back right away. Try not to reply to Emails right away, be concise in emails and casually suggest to her that I'm having fun and doing well without seeming like I'm rubbing it in.
I feel like if she's coming to me in a moment of crisis however I want to respond WITHOUT commenting on myself or our Relationship. Just so she knows I care about her well being, but am generally disinterested in how it applies to me personally.
Someone on these boards gave me GAL advice to "be there" but not at beck and call so to speak. Don't drop my plans for her, which I haven't done. She knows I'm around and am not indifferent to her well being; but as far as needing her, I don't. I want to believe I can strike that balance.
Your WORDS, the description you just gave, strike that balance.
Your ACTION -- of initiating a "how are you?" text message -- say otherwise.
I think you're rationalizing, but that's just my opinion. Even if YOU don't mind her talking about her boyfriend to you, I would bet that SHE loses respect (and therefore LOVE) for you when you allow her to do it.
Puppy
Maybe. It's tough not to at least acknowledge what she's saying to me if I'm trying to keep a cool demanor. I have a feeling if I just flipped out and said I refuse to discuss this it would make me look like a jerk to her. I want her to know she can come to me with problems when I'm available.
In my defense the most I commented about her "relationship" this time was to say, "If you don't make him happy that's his problem. He's already proven to be immature, disrespectful, and unreasonable." Then immediately moved on to say she needs to focus on taking better care of herself.
In the past I've tried to go farther to disprove him worth, but I've already told her I no longer care to discuss him with her multiple times and want him to be a non issue in my life.
But yeah I'm probably trying to justify this too much. The first "everything okay?" email was probably fine. The second message was overkill. Her move.
I'm not saying to run him down -- that would be counterproductive. But a polite (but firm) "I'm sorry, but I really don't appreciate it when you talk to me about your boyfriend. It's very disrespectful to our marriage" would be MUCH more appropriate.
If you disagree, why not start a separate thread called "Is It OK to Discuss Affair Partner with Wayward Spouse?", and see what kind of responses you get.
Puppy
You know, I think I do agree for the most part. But since he exists in the situation still I feel I'll have to acknowledge him here and there and he may factor into advice I give her.
But I think a polite, "I'd really rather not discuss your relationship" would be on the money. Going forward I'll try to not so subtly steer the conversation away from him and focus on the problems she can solve without him. Thanks again for the input!
I guess the good news here is that this strategy is working and if she's coming to me like this then she is UNHAPPY. Push will hopefully come to shove, but I'm still counting on it taking at least another month or two.
Michael,
Why are you walking on eggs around your wife about her affair?
This man is, by definition, a PREDATOR, and he's trying to destroy your marriage. He is NOT your moral equal.
Puppy
Oh and just for fun. Here's the advice I was referencing earlier given to me by BrokenTrust in my other threat. This really spoke to me as being the way to specifically handle my W. I feel like I can play the role of "advisor" for her and it will make me attractive, AS LONG as I'm not a a doormatt.
____________________________________________________________
"She will soon be coming down off that high... and you can be available for her to talk to when not GALing. GALing is very important at this time... going out and having fun... finding yourself again and growing your confidence back as you become the person you want to and need to be.
Nothing is more attractive than a confident person who likes their own company.
So... be willing to be there... (hint hint) but not when you have plans.
Sound confusing yet? That is kind of the point, you need to confuse her, to be mysterious... she needs to work for your attention... she needs to be the one to beg you for your advice and when she does you need to be nice and supportive and give her advice you would want in her situation. Do not bring up your own R in the advice... simply tell her to do what you would tell your sister to do in her place, and if she comes back with "you are telling me this because you want me back" answer with "no, I just want you to be happy wherever you are". That will probably hit her like a ton of bricks because it will be the last thing she will expect.
As for waiting for her to come to her senses... stop waiting by the phone and by the door and get out there and start GALing. Change your hair style... change colognes... change the way you dress... remake yourself into the person you want to be. There something you used to like to do? Go out and do it... There something you have always wanted to do... whats stopping you?"
And the context of this advice was for you to "be available for her to talk" about her OM???
simply tell her to do what you would tell your sister to do in her place
So what would you tell your sister that was having a affair about how to deal with her lover?
I feel like I can play the role of "advisor"
Woman aren't looking for advisors when it comes to finding a husband.
and it will make me attractive
Ask around to the women here if being your wife's advisor in her affair is attractive. You are not her hairdresser.
Telling your wife you want her to be happy is fine. But being her confidant in her affair????!!!!
These are not healthy dynamics in a relationship.
Okay. I definately do not walk on Eggshells about the OM. In fact I feel like I've EXHAUSTED all the reasons why he is terrible and a predator. I'm not sure it does me much good to do anything at this point but plainly state he's no good for her and she knows why. Then tell her to pick herself up and make some good decisions about her life.
I think available to talk about the mess she made is more the way I would describe it. The OM helped her make the mess unfortunately.
Trust me I'm quick to remind her she's making a big mistake every day she chooses to remain unfaithful. And aside from that she's making a big mistake being with this guy EVEN if she was single.
I think people are misunderstanding. I'm not giving her LOVE advice about her affair. I'm encouraging her to make healthy decisions in her life.
I think available to talk about the mess she made is more the way I would describe it. The OM helped her make the mess unfortunately.
What I was taught to say and do was to say to my wife
"This is your mess; you get to clean it up." Not to take any ownership of her poor decisions, nor to instruct her on what to do (which she would only see as "controlling" anyway.
A betrayed spouse shouldn't get involved with helping solve a wayward spouse's problems that are directly a result of their infidelity.I guess we'll just have to disagree about this one, Michael.
Puppy
That's a good point... I've certainly already said MORE than my fair share about her mistakes. I've also done a LOT more of my fair share of research as to what the problems were in our relationship and how we can overcome them.
But I do think it's important that if SHE seeks ME out about something serious (like hurting herself), I shouldn't blow her off. If she's just calling to say hi, I can blow her off.
I agree with that. And I have no problem with you "being there" for her for any and every other topic BESIDES OM.
Oh and to be clear if she's just calling to say "OM and I are having problems" but she's otherwise behaving in a healthy mannor. Again, happy to blow her off. That's never happened.
I could be wrong, but you seem to want to RESCUE her, Michael. Do you have any past history of being attracted to this type of woman?
Puppy, I think we're on the same page now.
Yeah I think that's a fair way to describe my impulses. I think OM is so despicable and it does drive me nuts to see her (who I think NORMALLY is quite wonderful) despondant over him (who is not worth her time.) On a primary level I would just like to see her happy, THEN worry about whether or not we can reunite.
Oddly enough that's pretty much the way OM operated too. He's kind of a Yesman, and I feel like he won her over by valiantly defending her and validating everything she felt.
Meanwhile as her husband I was giving her logical advice which is just no fun.
I was giving her logical advice
This comes across as judgemental, controlling, parent-child dynamic, and dictorial. That's how guys talk to each other, you got a problem here's how you fix it. Validating, listening, letting her problems be her problems, and creating a emotional connection is what you are striving for.
I hear you coach. Validating her is something I failed at. I wish I knew all the stuff I'm leaning now then, but at least I know now.
Trust me I'm quick to remind her she's making a big mistake every day she chooses to remain unfaithful.
I don't think I would do that. Sounds patronizing. She's a big girl that's made a BIG mess that only she can sort through. Until she sees it and KNOWS it (hits bottom maybe), everything you say is going to be seen as pursuit.
Just my 2.
Haha, this is all so confusing.
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I've told her many times that every day she chooses to continue this lifestyle she continues to disrespect me, which I can and do take personally.
Even so, going forward trying NOT to talk about the relationship as much as I can, not innitiating contact unless I feel there's an emergency, and GALing.
Trust me I'm quick to remind her she's making a big mistake every day she chooses to remain unfaithful.
Maybe it would be more accurate to say that I've told her many times that every day she chooses to continue this lifestyle she continues to disrespect me, which I can and do take personally.
So which is it? There is a huge difference. The first is controlling and condemning, the second is maintaining boundaries (but I would take out the part about it taking it personally).
IMO, listening to her complaints and offering her advice on OM is degrading and wussy, not at all worthy of respect. You're relegating yourself to the role of a girlfriend.
Pearlharbr,
First I was telling her one, then the other, now I'm more or less breaking off contact. I agree, I want to be maintaining boundaries, respecting myself, and stop judging her. I've done enough of that and it gets you nowhere.
To be clear again. I'm not gabbing on the phone with her about OM like a gal pal. He rarely comes up, but has come up when she had a suicide attempt and breifly came up after what I learned was a 2nd self destructive episode. I fear he is becoming an emotional abuser and it makes me VERY angry at him. (ie Puppy's astute observation that I'm driven to rescue her) Not that she doesn't deserve to feel bad, but he's criticizing her about things she should feel good about.
I do kind of feel like I'm doing my best in the face of these very serious incidents. But I do see the value in everyone's reaction to the very idea of discussing OM with her. I'm going to keep working on how to handle her because I feel like if I keep ignoring, she's going to call again and probably not in a happy healthy frame of mind. Maybe I should start a thread about suicidal walk away spouses? But I'm not 100% sure how seriously to take this because I'm not seeing her to asses the damage? How do you deal with a mentally unstable spouse who needs help and comes to you (the person they've disrespected so much) in a time of need? I don't feel like I can turn her away.
If she is truly suicidal and not just trying to manipulate you then I would recommend you inform her family and have them step in to monitor her.
The OM may very well be verbally abusing her, but this is not your problem. She chose her actions, she chose the consequences. If you continue to protect her she will continue to cake eat, having OM and you to run to when he treats her poorly.
Good advice. Thanks pearlharbr. I feel a little bad running to her mother with this information. But we do have a very trustworthy mutual friend who I think I will consult.
Oddly enough that's pretty much the way OM operated too. He's kind of a Yesman, and I feel like he won her over by valiantly defending her and validating everything she felt.
Meanwhile as her husband I was giving her logical advice which is just no fun.
Yep. thats a pretty good way to steal someones unhappy wife.
Okay. I definately do not walk on Eggshells about the OM. In fact I feel like I've EXHAUSTED all the reasons why he is terrible and a predator. I'm not sure it does me much good to do anything at this point but plainly state he's no good for her and she knows why. Then tell her to pick herself up and make some good decisions about her life.
I think available to talk about the mess she made is more the way I would describe it. The OM helped her make the mess unfortunately.
Trust me I'm quick to remind her she's making a big mistake every day she chooses to remain unfaithful. And aside from that she's making a big mistake being with this guy EVEN if she was single.
And you are still doing it after he has stolen her.
You - honey, you have made a mess of your life you are making mistakes.
Him - wow, your a$$ looks great in that skirt. i love the way the line runs up the back of your stockings, no dont take 'em off. leave 'em on.
BIG DIFFERENCE VERY BIG DIFFERENCEOh and to be clear if she's just calling to say "OM and I are having problems" but she's otherwise behaving in a healthy mannor. Again, happy to blow her off. That's never happened.
I dont know. its been said but i am going to say it again. i dont see how listening to the "OM and I are having problems" makes you the more attractive option in the long run, honestly, it you may be viewed by her more like youre a gay friend listening to her boy friend dilemmas. is that something she is going to want to come back too? in the back of her mind she will be thinking he actually listened to me crying about my other relationships he must not really be attracted to me.
NOW. on the otherhand. why do you need to assess the damage? is she really coming to you in a time a need, or at a time when there is noone else to listen (big difference). why do you feel like you cannot turn her away? she has turned away from you.
what if you gave her 30 days of no contact. went out and started dating. let her assess the damage she has caused. wait till she comes to you wanting to be exclusive and work on your relationship. Work on yourself and your confidence to demand respect.
explain this a little more:
In our relationship she would often lay there and refuse me if the foreplay and the role playing wasn't just so.
what kind of roleplaying was she demanding?
What she tells me now is that she's learned that her affair partner has some uncontrollable ethereal "something" she cant put into words that makes her crazy about him sexually.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
when she told you this what did you do?
and after she told you this. you continued to listen to "problems" with the other man?
explain this a little more:
In our relationship she would often lay there and refuse me if the foreplay and the role playing wasn't just so.
what kind of roleplaying was she demanding?
What she tells me now is that she's learned that her affair partner has some uncontrollable ethereal "something" she cant put into words that makes her crazy about him sexually.
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
when she told you this what did you do?
and after she told you this. you continued to listen to "problems" with the other man?
Hi Steve, Thanks for your thoughts.
Suffice to say, she was very particular about how sex should be innitiated. She enjoyed role play, I was open minded but I didn't take it seriously enough for her I guess. Gradually, getting her in the mood became a complete mystery and she stopped being very cooperative about it. I've read SSM and I think I have a good handle on how that happened and have ideas on how to overcome this, but it would require her to compromise which is sort of moot with the current sitch. I certainly take my share of responsibility for the emotional disconnection which impacted our sex life.
When she told me that about her attraction to OM I honestly don't remember what I said. She told me that was the ONLY thing about our marriage she thought might be beyond repair. I think it was over the phone and I just sort of told her that was a horrible thing to tell me and told her I didn't believe sex was an insurmountable issue for us. But yeah that was devastating to hear. I LATER shared with her in writing that I felt she was confusing the newness of her relationship with him with something that would last. And again later in writing explained some of the issues I uncovered through reading. That time (this was more recent) she replied to say that she was glad I had worked so hard to figure out what happened and seemed to agree with me. But she didn't explicitly say whether or not she'd changed her mind about our sex potential. Not surpising because I think she's trying to keep all her cards hidden and her options open even if she's starting to see the sense I've made.
Again I think the "listening to her problems about OM" angle is getting overblown. She's only mentioned problems with him twice to me during late night hysterical phone calls, during which I had reason to believe she was a danger to herself.
so there is the possibility she is not low drive afterall?
I go into this in the other thread I started under "sexual issues" a lot more. But basically I feel like she was/is low desire but her emotional affair kicked her sex drive into high gear again. She and I enjoyed a very good sex life earlier in our relationship.
I think theoretically if I left her life, and she continued on with OM she would level out again. For all I know she may already have started to?
Hello everyone,
Like many of you I am right smack in the middle of a very long bizarre and terrible journey. I guess I should start at the beginning. I’m going to try and condense and consolidate this as much as I can, but because I‘ve been married for less than a year the background here is very important. My wife and I are both 26 years old. We have known each other for almost a decade. Became friends in high school. Dated casually after high school. Tried to maintain a casual long distance romance which did not work out for various reasons our first year of college, and through all of that became very close friends. We stayed in touch throughout college, got together whenever I was in town, tried to date again a few times on and off; but there was usually some other guy in her life who was more involved with her than I was. It was upsetting, but it was never damaging to our friendship. I knew I was two hours away at school and we didn’t see each other nearly enough to have a real relationship. We were young, and perhaps other opportunities would arise. Still in a way I pined for her in the back of my heart. I did date some other girls here and there, but it was never quite the same.
When I returned from college, my wife was one of the few friends I had around me while I was in a transition phase in my life. Both of us had graduated college, were living with our parents, and having trouble finding a job and moving on to independence. At this time we began to spend a lot of time together as friends and become involved in community theater productions. My wife was now dating another man. Their relationship had been sour for some time, and I did not respect him very much. They had intense fights, and he lead his life very irresponsibly. I am very ashamed of myself now, but at the time it made so much sense for me to try and seduce her away from this man. We had a mostly emotional affair towards the end of her relationship with this person, and that transitioned into a 3 year relationship, a more than one year long engagement, and marriage.
I would describe our dating during these four years (which eventually lead into marriage) as without question the happiest time of my entire life. Neither one of us was perfect, but I feel like we had a very healthy, honest, open relationship and we complimented each other beautifully. I could go on about the highs and lows of dating/engagement and why I consider this a time of discovery, in which we did not have a perfect relationship (as nobody truly does), but suffice to say we did have shared goals and a responsible sincere love for one another that had seemingly endless promise and potential.
Late in our engagement (a few months before the wedding which was now all planned out with invitations sent), my wife began to experience doubts. Cold feet as I thought it was. As much as she sincerely appreciated all that I had done for her and with her, and as much as she felt she wanted to be with me for the rest of her life, she was now grappling with the practicality of being with one person for the rest of her life. External influences on these thoughts were not one, but TWO other men who had confessed an infatuation to her. My wife is an extremely attractive, caring, honest, fun person and I certainly can see why men become attracted to her. And at this time, she was very faithful to me. She saw their advances for what they were and blocked them. But she did indicate to me that she wasn’t so sure she was the marrying type anymore. When asked point blank how I would feel about calling off or postponing the wedding, naturally I told her that I thought it would be a huge step backwards, a big disappointment and embarrassment, and that the long term result of this I couldn’t honestly know. I did indicate that I might not want to stay with her if we didn’t get married. After a brief phase of this uncertainty, during which time I admit I was in a kind of denial about the fact that the wedding might not proceed, she did confide to me that she loved me very much, could see herself spending the rest of her life with me, and sincerely wanted to get married.
The wedding came and went. We were both very happy and in love, and I believe incredibly sincere about our vows and this transition. But a mere 8 months into our marriage we both began to experience doldrums. I thought it would be a passing phase, but for her there was an emotional disconnection that was becoming more and more serious. She was propositioned again by one of the men who had become infatuated with her. They began to spend more and more time together and I began to notice startling changes in her behavior. Immaturity, selfishness, and distance went through the roof. I gradually picked up on the fact that she was having an affair, but by the time I confronted her about it, she was pretty far gone. She resurrected her doubts about the concept of marriage. She told me that she was angry at me for having “given her an ultimatum”. She felt I had threatened to leave her if we didn’t get married and forced her into it, but I really feel like I was just being honest about how I might react. Worst of all she sincerely believed that she was deeply in love and had found some kind of soul mate in her affair partner. To make things worse, this person was a mutual friend and I knew a thing or two about him, the way their friendship worked, the kind of person he was, the kind of mistakes he made, and the way he seduced her. He was a “yes man” to her, a valiant defender, and a hopeless romantic who encouraged and propagated all her fantasies in their minds. As a husband and a partner I always tried to be a loving realist, someone who encouraged her but also strived to give her practical advice about her life and career goals. She had started to resent me and only think negatively about me, while only positively about him.
My wife had been seeing a therapist on her own for a month or so, trying to figure all of this out without informing me of what was happening. After my discovery, we went through a tumultuous but abbreviated period living together with her still seeing this man. It ended with me kicking her out of the apartment for thinking she could see him, spend the night with him, come home to me and have the nerve to be angry at me for making her feel guilty. She was like a completely different person; a cold, uncaring, pleasure-seeker who didn’t care who she hurt or what she destroyed to have a good time. But prior to my having kicked her out she received what I consider to be very questionable advice from her therapist. My wife was told that she should move out, continue to date her affair partner, and see me “at least once a week” to figure things out. I find it very strange that she was told to separate after having been married for less than a year. And I find it impossible for any professional to think that I could be “given a chance” under those conditions. Naturally, she liked this advice. She grabbed it and ran. She could move out, have some freedom and “independence”. Pursue her passion for her affair partner, and see me very little. In fact in the three months since the separation started… she has seen me three times. One of those times was obligatory. The other two were very short encounters that added up to a few hours. We have kept in touch on the phone and through Email as well to an extent. But she does not make an effort to spend time with me.
I’ve been seeing my own therapist since this started, and have been working very hard to figure all of this out, self-reflect, and determine whether or not I should even be with my wife and whether or not she is capable of change. I have determined for myself that yes she is worth it, and yes she does have what it takes to make our marriage work. But my wife spent the first few months of the separation enjoying herself, and sharing her life with her affair partner in a blissful sort of fantasy world. I spent a day trip with her driving to an acting gig I had gotten her long ago, and we had a long productive talk in the car. After that I felt like she was ready to hear some things from me. I had composed several intense, loving, positive, honest letters to her that I had been holding onto. After that week I felt that I finally broke through the bubble of her fantasy life and made her realize what she had done. She began to feel incredible stress and sadness, alternating with the same dizzyingly blissful highs of her now highly sexual relationship with her affair partner. We both began to understand that there was something chemical and addictive about her relationship with him. But on it went. She is experiencing more clarity now, but is so busy and stressed working on a play (with her affair partner as her assistant director!) I don’t believe she will have the time to really give herself the peace of mind to reflect on this until this play is over which is very frustrating to me. The play ends on October 24th (The day before our one year wedding anniversary if this isn’t set up dramatically enough.) And I feel I have to wait this out at least until November to give her the opportunity to settle down.
Recently there was a very eye opening and powerful incident in the saga. My wife was feeling very stressed and overwhelmed about a variety of things including her personal life. She called her affair partner for emotional support. Instead they fought. She told him she was feeling suicidal and had taken sleeping pills with alcohol. He became irritated and hung up on her multiple times. Low and behold I am then awoken at 2AM by a hysterical phone call from her. I was very sympathetic, understanding, and angry at this man who shunned her at a time of such serious crisis. I went over to her new apartment and sat up with her for a while until I felt that she was okay. Over the next week we had very sincere conversations about the reality of the man she was now with vs. the fantasy of what she thought she was going after. But even so, I tried very hard to remind myself that this was far from over. That she would likely continue to see him as they continued to work together. That she would probably slip back into the chemical high for a while even if it was alternating with devastating lows. Naturally that's what happened. After having made a lot of progress and self discovery, I finally had a new devastating moment when I realized they were continuing on. Even though I had tried to prepare myself for it.
Now I'm feeling like I just can't watch this happening anymore. I love her way too much to watch her degrade herself by being with this person. She is a strong, intelligent, compassionate young human being. And she is wasting her time addicted to a forty year old, unemployed, living with his mother, unmotivated grown up child. My wife is the third married woman this man has dated. He doesn't seem to learn from any of his mistakes and he doesn't seem to want to live in reality. And he's perfectly content dragging my wife into fantasy land with him. Granted it was ultimately her choice, so I am just fed up with both of them. I want to give her a chance, but her actions are speaking much louder than her words. I'm beginning to feel very stupid for hanging on and I desperately need to distract myself more. I feel like what I need to do is focus on reacting to her if/when she comes to me, and stop reaching out to her. I just keep setting myself up for disappointment.
That's the story so far. I feel like there are hundreds of solutions out there for us to make our marriage work, but I'm helpless to use them without her. I don't know how long to wait, but I know I could wait for her much longer if she was not dating another man. There are many, many, oddities and interesting details about our situation which I can go into in later posts perhaps. But for now I guess that's it.
Thanks for reading if you got this far!
No kids All this drama
Send her packing & move on she told you she wasn't sure & you were able to get her from another guy
What did you think was going to happen???
So are you still trying to convince her how she's wrong and you're right, if she just does X, Y, and Z the marriage will be all better?
None of that is attractive or effective.
On a different topic, just because you don't have children does not mean it's easier to move on or that you should just throw in the towel. You won't have to deal with your ex forever as co-parents, but it doesn't mean your R is worth any less or the pain of a breakup is any less.
So are you still trying to convince her how she's wrong and you're right, if she just does X, Y, and Z the marriage will be all better?
None of that is attractive or effective.
On a different topic, just because you don't have children does not mean it's easier to move on or that you should just throw in the towel. You won't have to deal with your ex forever as co-parents, but it doesn't mean your R is worth any less or the pain of a breakup is any less.
Pearlharbr,
For the past 3 weeks, I have not tried to convince her of ANYTHING regarding our relationship. I am GALing, enjoying it, and it has started to get her attention.
I agree that my situation is less complicated because there are no kids. But that doesn't make it quite that simple that I should just drop everything. I have known her for almost a decade. We are very good friends, we've done a lot of growing up together, and she has been there for me and with me through hard times and good times. We have a lot of history and I love her and care for her like I would any other member of my family. In fact she meant all that and more to me, and as I'm sure you all can see I'm still DEEPLY troubled for her well being in spite of all my anger towards her. Before I give her up I want to make sure I've tried EVERYTHING.
I know the ingredients for reconciliation and repair are there, I know I can do the hard work, she just needs to step up. Not happening any time soon but if I can ride this out until the end of the year she might. If not I may get sick of it and move on before then. I'm not in a rush, and I don't want to make rash decisions I might regret.
Also as a final update before the weekend starts (going out of town with friends :)), I did get in touch with our mutual friend about the suicidal tendencies issue. She confirmed for me that she was worried about W's mental state right now. But it sounds like for now she's stable. My friend told me she was going to continue to check in on W and not to worry about it, she would let me know if there was an emergency that called for any action on my part.
Thanks for eveyrone's thoughts, I might be sparse until Sunday.
Frosty Michael
Read this carefully
YOU CANNOT SAVE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT WANT TO BE SAVED
Just like no one can stop there WAS from leaving
You have to let her do what she thinks is the right thing to do even if you feel it's the wrong thing
Based on how we were raised, the influential people in our life, the morals that was passed down to us as children and our own pain that we have been through in our lives make us who we are and guides us in our decision making & we are right in all our choices no matter how flawed others make think it is
Ever get lost don’t ask directions drive around for a hour then realize the place you were going was right across the street? During the time you were lost you were so focus that no one could persuade you could they? You literary had to bump into the place for you to realize how close you were
During that time no one could save you, you were so focused on what you believed were right that’s the same mindset she has right now!
alexjadams,
Thanks. I do need to keep telling myself that I can't help someone who isn't helping themself. I hope and pray she steps up and makes some good choices in the next month.
I had a nice weekend out of town with friends, but did have an encounter with W Friday night before I left. She showed up randomly at my door and I politely invited her in. No R talk, no innitiating of touching/affection on my end. I told her I was leaving to go out of town soon and that the visit would be short.
I can tell she is an emotional trainwreck now. She showed me some nasty scars on her arms confirming my fears and that was devestating to see but I did not break down in any way. I simply told her that she needs to take care of herself and she can call me or another trustworthy person before she resorts to that kind of behavior.
We were sitting on the couch and she moved close to me and cried on my shoulder, reaching for me. At that point I thought it was okay to hold her. She told me she wanted to kiss me and innitiated it before she left.
On some (I would think subconscious) level maybe she's trying to manipulate me into paying more attention to her but I haven't faltered in my no contact GALing attempts. I am haunted by the scars on her arms, but I keep telling myself there is nothing I need to do and nothing I can do but wait and see what she brings to me.
On some (I would think subconscious) level maybe she's trying to manipulate me into paying more attention to her
There's nothing subconscious about it, that's exactly what she
is doing.
She's an actor so I would assume she's prone to be melodramatic (I say this as an amateur actor myself). She knows how to push your buttons. Stop giving her the reaction she's looking for--that would be a good 180.
Right. She just emailed me this afternoon to say she cut herself AGAIN last night and she really wants to talk to me. How many times can I just say "Take care of yourself, call someone before you hurt yourself."??? I haven't responded yet.
Trying really hard to walk that fine line between respecting myself by GALing and not pursuing her, without crossing over into the territory of cruelty.
I did respond to her email doing exactly what I said in my last post "Please don't resort to that behavior, call your therapist, me, or <5 specific other trustworthy poeple> before picking up a knife. If you don't get the first person you call try the next."
I know logically I'm doing everything I can/should do, but it's driving me crazy not to give her a phone call just to leave a message saying call if you need to. Voicemails sound sincere. Emails sound cold. But I can't help it if she decides to interpret it as insincerity. Maybe it'll even work in my favor if she does?
But I only want to reply or pick up the phone if she innitiates. And only reply if it's serious sounding. I'm afraid she's in the midst of a full on mental breakdown and all I can really do is go about my business until I hear from her or worse, someone else with bad news about her.
She is telling me she wants to talk to me. But she's also so stressed and busy that I know I'll just get the Voice Mail. I told her she can call me late at night if it's serious, so what more can I do? I know... nothing.
In spite of it I feel no guilt that I've been relaxing and enjoying myself a lot. Went to a nearby coffee shop last night to read, went late night grocery shopping, watched some new DVDs. Tonight I'm going out to eat, meeting up with a friend. The opportunities to hook up with old female friends are popping up here and there and I'm not sure I'm ready to go there yet, but it's tempting. I know my W is very unreasonably jealous (she gets worked up when she sees me comment on a Facebook message for a woman she doesn't know), but if and when I go on a date I want it to be sincere not just to get W worked up.
Michael,
Trust me, she will learn to MAKE it "serious-sounding" if at first her non-serious-sounding voicemails to you aren't returned, and promptly.
She will continue to push your buttons. There's nothing cruel about not indulging crap behavior. In fact, one could make the case that it's cruel TO enable it, as it does neither ONE of you any favors.
Puppy
Well whatever her motives may be I have seen the scars on her arms. So I do have to take her seriously if she calls for help. But I don't have to do anything but carefully try to talk her out of destructive behavoir. I'm just going to be very careful about how I present myself to her as I offer my support about this problem.
How does one tell when it's time to stop ignoring in general? She's already telling me how horrifically guilty she is. She's taking it out on herself. She's let me know that OM is unhappy with her.
Obviously until she says "I want to save our relationship and OM is gone, let's start joint therapy", there's nothing for me to do but react carefully.
After her play is over I think she'll probably start trying to see me again (already acting like she wants to). My instinct is that's fine as long as I'm not dropping plans to be with her, I'm not innitiating contact, and as long as the main focus of my life is still myself and not her. I'm trying not to think about it too much and just keep plowing ahead with my own life. I am enjoying myself after all.
How does one tell when it's time to stop ignoring in general? She's already telling me how horrifically guilty she is. She's taking it out on herself. She's let me know that OM is unhappy with her.
When she ends all contact with him --
100% -- and agrees to full transparency. Until then, her promises are meaningless at best, and lies at worst.
Puppy
Okay... W shows up randomly last night. I was out to dinner, out with a friend and came home to find she had been trying to call me and showed up at my house desperately missing me.
She certainly took my lack of contact personally! Tried to put words into my mouth that I was done waiting for her and it was over. (Even though I've responded to every urgent call and email over the past few weeks.) I kept my cool, almost took the bait for some nasty fights but caught myself before I got too worked up, and she essentially sat before me worn and broken looking, scars all up and down her arms, begging to be held and comforted.
She's sending mixed messages. But she's TRYING to get me to "hang on" for the next few weeks until her play is over SUGGESTING that at that time she can dump the OM. At the same time makes no promise that this will happen. I have told her I don't care to discuss OM, that he has become a non issue for me and I can only take her seriously if she can prove I can trust her.
I did hold her. I understand that people in as dark a place as her do need some serious emotional support and she wasn't getting it anywhere else. It looks like she's been through hell and is crawling back to me, but not saying it in plain English. One thing lead to another and she wanted to lie down with me. We actually slept the night together in our bed for the first time since the beginning of July. And it was her choice. I LOVED it of course but I'm trying to think of it as a nice thing that happened and not read any more or less into it than I have to.
I have to admitt this is a HUGE step for her, and I'm tempted to come out of the dark a little, but I don't want to pursue or lose my cool confident demeanor that I've kept up the past 3 weeks.
I still agree that she must give up OM 100%, and give me full transparency. But I'm feeling like I can bend my rules a little until she very clearly passes on that option. (Two weeks). Until then I still don't want to actively pursue, but i think my ignoring made a point and was starting to go extreme and do dammage. Going to talk to the therapist tonight about how I can feel my way through this phase of things. The changes I made ARE affecting her so I want to be attentive to how she's changing and feel like I probably need to stop treating her like she's living her life EXACTLY the same way she was July-August. She is doing and understanding things differently.
Wow that's great news! You're right in saying that she has to be the one to put in the work. She has to be the one to start initiating and not just use you as a crutch.
Hope it continues to improve from here.
I still agree that she must give up OM 100%, and give me full transparency. But I'm feeling like I can bend my rules a little until she very clearly passes on that option. (Two weeks). Until then I still don't want to actively pursue, but i think my ignoring made a point and was starting to go extreme and do dammage. Going to talk to the therapist tonight about how I can feel my way through this phase of things. The changes I made ARE affecting her so I want to be attentive to how she's changing and feel like I probably need to stop treating her like she's living her life EXACTLY the same way she was July-August. She is doing and understanding things differently.
I know I always seem to be the resident Wet Blanket, but how, exactly, is she "doing and understanding things differently," other than throwing you whatever bone she needs to throw you to keep you at her beckon call? "I'm going to end all contact with OM" is like the federal government saying "I'm GOING to cut waste, fraud and abuse" -- they never really get around to it, and if they can do it later, why aren't they doing it NOW???
Excuse me if this is too personal, Michael, but did you guys ML? Just please be careful -- emotionally and physically, okay?
Puppy
I have to admitt this is a HUGE step for her, and I'm tempted to come out of the dark a little,
too soon. this is just an initial response to her noticing you may be walking away. SCRIPT!
whats with the two weeks? hanging on until her play is over? whats that all about?
No ML. My intention is not to do that again unless shes gives up OM and gets herself tested for STDs. OM ha ONLY dated women who are taken. I have to admit halfway through last night I realized that this policy might prove harder to enforce than I thought! I felt like were were about as intimate as can be witout any of the stuff assiciated with ML.
I'm definately trying to be careful. I know there's still lots of backslide potential.
The Play/2 Weeks situation is like this: My W and OM met as actors. OM was all set to be her assistant director in another production right before the Affair happened. I tried to warn her early on that this was going to be a big mistake but she was so gung ho, me and OM work so well together everything is going to be swell. Surprise surprise here we are, opening night is next weekend and she fully admits that having him as her A.D. was a HUGE mistake. Now there are social situations that "obligate" them both to see the project through.
I agree, it sure would go a long way to redeem her if she could say OM is fired and the show goes on without him. It's not like he's an actor and they'd have to find someone to replace him and learn all his lines. But I KNOW that's not happening. She doesn't have it in her. I'm interested to see what she does have in her by the end of October.
The optimistic way of looking at this is at least unlike an office romance, there is a clear and impending END to thier working relationship and they will have a conscious choice to work together again.
Sounds like they're both sick of each other, but how can I know for sure.
Still plenty of room for lots of GALing because she's going to be VERY busy with her show, so I'm going to try focusing on having fun and relaxing rather than playing a waiting game. Having lived through some truly awful Tech Weeks of shows I know if they're relationship is strained now, next week will be an atomic bomb. If they survive that I really ought to consider that D.
No ML. My intention is not to do that again unless shes gives up OM and gets herself tested for STDs.
Very good. Sorry for prying, but there's more than one horror story on this forum about STDs, or even worse. It's actually more common in affair situations than most people think.
Puppy
I can imagine! I sure hope she doesn't have anything for her sake.
Wrong choice of words....
I'm interested to see what she does have in her by the end of October.
the end of october is a long time away. The only thing I see her socially obligated to do is work on your marriage. Are you afraid to put your foot down about her having an affair partner or are you taking this month to decide whether you even want her back?
Ha, woah I walked right into that one didn't I!
The thing is we're separated so it's not like I can put my foot down in any normal sense. All I can really do is suggest to her with my actions that I don't need her, and hope she thinks twice about throwing our M away.
Of course she's MORE obligated by her marriage than anything else, but I don't want to be completely black and white about it. Life goes on married or separated and this is one of her obligations just like getting up and going to work. I do fully support her pursuit of theater on the whole. It's just unfortunate (for her mostly at this point) that she had to get OM wrapped up in this project.
I'm not in any hurry just yet to decide I want a divorce, but I have told myself that November is the time to do a serious re-evaluation of her and what she is doing to make me think she's worth putting divorce (Or up and leaving) off any longer.
I actually kind of feel like the end of October is right around the corner in the grand scheme of this whole nasty business. Just not sure how much MORE of this I'd have to put up with to save my M.
Frosty, one suggestion: do NOT communicate your November deadline to her. Have that be "hidden in your heart," as it were. All she needs to know is that your patience isn't without its limits, no more.
If you communicate a deadline of November X, she will keep doing what she's doing until November X-1, at which point she'll promise you the moon and the stars not to kick her to the curb.
Puppy
Just not sure how much MORE of this I'd have to put up with to save my M.
Without a boundary you will continue to put up with it. Boundarys are healthy and good for your marriage. She will respect you when you stand up for yourself. Put yourself in her shoes and look at your position towards her. Being a Nice Guy doesn't work, we know here because we were just like that.
Cheers
Been almost a week since that little overnight episode and I'm journaling a little bit to focus on minimizing my contact with her.
Talking to my therapist she assured me that it was probably okay if I "check in" with a call or Email just to say "is everything okay" regarding her depression and her recent self-destructive behavior. Aside from last Wednesday, the day after she slept over at my place, I haven't actually done that. I'm very hesitant to place these kinds of calls (or emails) in the event that she's doing better. And I feel that if she's not doing better she's going to end up at my door or calling me or something anyway. She'll try to use it against me again maybe, but there's nothing I can do about it. I'm living my life and have told her many times that if she desperately needs to talk to me I would listen.
This Saturday I'm attending W's play. I guess that seems contradictary to my 180, but I think as long as it's something I want to do and not something I'm doing to win her over it's okay. We have a mutual out of town friend coming in to see it and I figure this way I can be supportive of the theater (which I WAS a part of and would like to be again some day) and have some good moral support there with me.
I definately want to see the show because it sounds like it's going to be really good, and having gone over this issue several times I do think it would be stupid to not attend because of OM's involvement. If he has half a brain he's going to stay far far away from me. If not I think I can handle acting like he doesn't exist (already been in that sitch once.) I think I've got a lot going for me walking into this event...
-Lots of theater friends will be around I haven't seen in a while who I can catch up with (several of whom hate OM and know what's happened to me)
-A very good supportive friend coming from out of town to see the show with me who I can catch up with (and have a convenient excuse to go my seperate ways with after the show ends and old theater buddies not in the know might ask me to go out to eat with the cast).
-W's mother is attending and she's been very good and understanding towards me.
-Added Bonus, my going might make OM nervous, depressed, or angry. Not the reason I'm going but if it happens, great.
I am trying to think about the potential pit falls of this outing. I tried to get a small army of my very good friends to come with me but they all turned me down (gave excuses but I think they just don't want to have to talk to my W yet. Understandable.) I think I need to focus on talking to my out of town friend, catch up with select theater friends who I miss, enjoy the show, and keep my contact with W very minimal unless she seems very eager to converse with me. Also planned a little cocktail party at my apartment afterwards as an excuse to congratulate her on her show and zip home. Not sure how many people are attending that, but even if it's just 3 people it'll be fun.
This week I'm going to work on some artistic things of my own, go out for coffee and read, maybe meet up with friends one weeknight, and try to get some sleep (feel a throat thing coming on!) I think I might carve a Jack-O-Lantern. I wonder if I'll miss all this freedom of choice and not having to schedule or coordinate things with anyone if I do get back with my W?
In spite of it, the temptation to give her a quick check in is there. I just have to keep reminding myself that for ME it's unnecessary to changing things, and so she should probably continue to be the primary innitiator of contact until I have something significant to present to her. At the current rate the next thing I have to bring to the table would probably be steps further apart, so I hope she's getting that impression...
I guess my continued patience is paying off. W finally called again last night, woke me up at midnight to talk because she was lonely and missed me. Said she missed being around "warm" people and that I was a very "warm" person.
She did start to complain about OM, but not in a relationship context, in a work/theater context. In general sounds like he doesn't respect her as a director and an authority figure (kindof already knew that he didn't respect people in general.) I acted generally disinterested in that with "Oh... interesting..." and didn't take the bait to bash him or pursue a discussion about him.
She innitiatied R talk. She seems paranoid that I'm getting ready to leave her or date someone new. I laid it all out how it really is: I want to work on our marriage, am willing to start doing that if she can do it, and in order for that to begin she must give up OM. Once again she didn't promise me anything, but tried to insinuate that after her show is over (again Oct. 25th) things could start moving in that direction. I plainly explained to her that I'm taking care of myself and my life is moving on one way or another and I do love her and hope she decides to work on things with me.
I feel like I'm handling things pretty well, but I feel like I'm stuck at a critical juncture for the next two weeks and am going to have to maintain a balancing act of non pursuit without seeming cold or uncaring.
I'm starting to think about how I'm going to present myself after this play is over? I'm okay with reuniting one step at a time, and almost feel like it's in both our best interests to remain separated a little while longer and ease back into things with joint therapy. But I will need her to give up OM 100% for any of this to get started and how do I go about monitoring that if we're not living together??? How does one enforce transparancy without shooting thier spouse's privacy to hell even if you are living together???
I don't want to be Mr. Drastic Ultimatum but I feel like I should have something in response to her inevitable "I don't know if I can do that." Maybe tell her that I can't talk to her until she can give him up 100%? My hope is that things are going badly enough between them that they'll both want to end it, but that's probably hoping for too much.
I don't want to be Mr. Drastic Ultimatum but I feel like I should have something in response to her inevitable "I don't know if I can do that." Maybe tell her that I can't talk to her until she can give him up 100%? My hope is that things are going badly enough between them that they'll both want to end it, but that's probably hoping for too much.
That's not drastic at all. You can't force her, but you can specify the relationship you want. You shouldn't have to share your W, emotionally or physically. I have no idea how to tell anyone this without making it worse. But you deserve better. I'm sure someone here can give you advice on how to do that.
I'm starting to think about how I'm going to present myself after this play is over? I'm okay with reuniting one step at a time, and almost feel like it's in both our best interests to remain separated a little while longer and ease back into things with joint therapy. But I will need her to give up OM 100% for any of this to get started and how do I go about monitoring that if we're not living together??? How does one enforce transparancy without shooting thier spouse's privacy to hell even if you are living together???
In situations where trust has been violated, privacy goes out the window if a person wants to make up for that. She will have to give it up. You want to respect her and give her freedom but that transparency is vital and you need to demand it if there is a reconciliation. And it works both ways.
Slow is better, especially after trust has been lost. I know from experience that jumping right back in can be just as devastating as a bad breakup.
You're right, Mark.
I think I'm preparing myself for the worst here and I'm probably right to do so. It's very likely that if I ask her for complete transparancy she will find that to be so unreaonable because she will feel like she's capable of controlling herself (even though she's proven that she's not.)
I want things to start getting better but I feel like I'm probably heading for a much nastier stalemate than where we are now.
Any good advice about Transparancy folks? What specific things do you do to start getting the trust mojo working again? And how do you go about suggesting them. I was thinking about compiling a list of things she could do and presenting it to her as third party advice that made sense to me. I know some couples trade phones, share Email accounts etc. But even with those things if we don't move back in right away what stops her from starting a new secret Email address? I just don't feel like I can enforce any of this and I don't want to HAVE to. I want her to regularly let me know what's going on.
I guess first though I just want her to tell me she can give him up 100%. If she can't even promise that there's no point having trust building tactics lined up.
Michael,
You can't present Transparency until she comes to you, fully broken and remorseful, with some sort of an "I'll do anything -- tell me what I have to do, I want to help save our marriage" talk.
Puppy
I know I've been a bit of a ghost around here for the past month, but thought I'd update. I hope anyone still reading this is doing well under thier respective circumstances.
Without chronicling the entire past month of events, I would say that some things have improved. W has made some important discoveries about herself and mistakes she's made in her IC which she has been more diligent about attending weekly. Our communication has been hit or miss since I went from dark to dim, but in the past few weeks has improved a lot. I've established a boundary of never ever wanting her to discuss OM or her problems with OM with me and she's begun to respect that. Most promising of all she agreed to meet with me tonight in front of her counselor. I don't expect miracles to come out of this one therapy session but until now she has not been willing to even attempt this. When we spend days together (about once a week) she has become much more intimate with me (snuggling etc.), this may or may not be good if it's cake eating.
However the situation is still fundamentally the same. She has yet to take any very noteworthy actions to move towards a real reconcilliation. I assume OM is still very much a part of her life until I hear otherwise (even though she has admitted on many occassions that he is bad for her and they don't have a future.) In fact due to her fragile emotional state (cutting herself, thoughts of suicide see above), W's therapist has actually advised her NOT to make any life altering decisions. That bothers me because she's being told to keep living her life like this which, as far as I'm concerned, will ultimately result in the decisions being made for her, rather than by her.
I've prepared a one page letter to read in front of the therapist to make sure I get all of my most important concerns voiced (in a non threatening, informative way.) I want to tell her basically that...
1: I'm very concerned about her mental health and would like to do what I can to support her in a difficult time, BUT the situation prevents me from being able to be a good listener when OM is the problem so I'm open to suggestions about how she would like me to show my support.
2: I feel angry when she brings up my past failings to throw in my face, since I have already apologized for and recognized them, but under the circumstances am unable to make up for them yet.
3: I have been very patient, resillient, and as understanding as any LBS can be, but it's too painful to live one's life like this and I won't be able to wait forever.
She already knows that I am resigning from my Job Nov 30th to thoroughly explore the alternatives to our marriage (moving to a new city, finding a new carreer etc. All things that would make me happy and help ease the pain of my loss.) I hope to get a better sense of where this is all going from her tonight, or at least gain some valuable insight and get a chance to communicate honestly with her with a mediator to keep us focused.
Well having met with my wife in front of her therapist I'm still left feeling uncertain and conflicted. Which I guess doesn't surprise me.
It's clear that W is far from ready to make any comittments. But she's willing and eager to schedule more therapy together, which is good. Her therapist seems to be on the ball about a lot of things and conducted our session well. But she also seems to enable W with some kind of "nobody makes mistakes there are only differences" philosophy. Like I was ready for marriage and W wasn't so it's not anyone's fault that the marriage didn't work. I guess I'd rather say it was both our faults but let's get solution oriented and not beat ourselves up. How is having an affair with an emotionally abusive SOB not a mistake?! How is continuing to date him while concurrently saying you love your husband and really need time to yourself to "figure things out" not a mistake? How is getting yourself into a situation where you're so mixed up your cutting yourself not a mistake? Sorry venting a little. W needs to give herself a kick in the face and wake up to the world she's living in.
I'm feeling pretty devastated right now. I don't know where else to go from here. I've quit my job, and I need to move out of our old Apt. to save money but I'm not up to the task. Half of me wants to move somewhere new and date new people, but I'm afraid when January comes I won't be able to let go. All my hopes and dreams about the future revolved around us being together. She's been my best friend for 9 years and I'll probably never know what we could have had working together. I'm ashamed and embarrasssed about this joke of a marriage. In less than one year the best part of my life turned into the worst. I'm having a hard time focusing on the positives about my life, I know they're there but they just don't seem to matter right now. Even though I know this isn't really my fault I can't help but feel like this is the biggest failure of my life.
Her therapist seems to be on the ball about a lot of things and conducted our session well. But she also seems to enable W with some kind of "nobody makes mistakes there are only differences" philosophy. Like I was ready for marriage and W wasn't so it's not anyone's fault that the marriage didn't work. I guess I'd rather say it was both our faults but let's get solution oriented and not beat ourselves up. How is having an affair with an emotionally abusive SOB not a mistake?! How is continuing to date him while concurrently saying you love your husband and really need time to yourself to "figure things out" not a mistake? How is getting yourself into a situation where you're so mixed up your cutting yourself not a mistake?
What a bunch o' crap. That therapist isn't doing your wife any favors, and that kind of enabling is only going to allow your wife to continue in her immature outlook on her world.
Why did you quit your job?
Puppy
Quitting my job was a tough decision. It's a decent job, but it's not in a field I feel any passion for nor to I have any future aspirations for moving up in the world of banking.
I went to school for English and Creative Writing. Since I graduated I've written 2 novels, numerous short stories, several screenplays, and helmed an online web series. That's the stuff I feel passionate about. But naturally it's not where the money is, unless/until you get a big break. Needless to say I was content to have job security and income during the current Economic pits.
But now, my 9-5 day in day out daily grind is just another source of dissatisfaction for me. I've been working a job I get no joy out of. My wife has expressed that even if we did get back together, she would NOT want to live in my apartment. It was where we moved in when we got married, and she has always had an aversion to it because her grandmother died there. I agree, the place is full of bad memories now more than ever.
I want to get a breather, explore all my options and be ready to up and move somewhere new and exciting if in the coming months I realize I have to get out of this situation. Quitting my job was not only a way of letter her know I'm serious, but it also frees up my time to visit new cities and explore. And I'm hoping it permits me to spend at least a few months enjoying life a little more.
I'm very lucky that I've diligently saved over the years and can afford to do this. I'll probably store my things and live with my parents for a short while to cut my living expenses. I'm also lucky that I don't have any children with her to support and consider. I'm really only looking out for #1. Not by choice, but I might as well enjoy the freedom it grants me.
Yikes just comparing my last two posts I'm either going through some wild ups and downs or I'm learning to bounce back from bad experiences much more quickly.
Quitting my job was a tough decision. It's a decent job, but it's not in a field I feel any passion for nor to I have any future aspirations for moving up in the world of banking.
I went to school for English and Creative Writing. Since I graduated I've written 2 novels, numerous short stories, several screenplays, and helmed an online web series. That's the stuff I feel passionate about. But naturally it's not where the money is, unless/until you get a big break. Needless to say I was content to have job security and income during the current Economic pits.
But now, my 9-5 day in day out daily grind is just another source of dissatisfaction for me. I've been working a job I get no joy out of. My wife has expressed that even if we did get back together, she would NOT want to live in my apartment. It was where we moved in when we got married, and she has always had an aversion to it because her grandmother died there. I agree, the place is full of bad memories now more than ever.
I want to get a breather, explore all my options and be ready to up and move somewhere new and exciting if in the coming months I realize I have to get out of this situation. Quitting my job was not only a way of letter her know I'm serious, but it also frees up my time to visit new cities and explore. And I'm hoping it permits me to spend at least a few months enjoying life a little more.
I'm very lucky that I've diligently saved over the years and can afford to do this. I'll probably store my things and live with my parents for a short while to cut my living expenses. I'm also lucky that I don't have any children with her to support and consider. I'm really only looking out for #1. Not by choice, but I might as well enjoy the freedom it grants me.
Gotcha. I was just wondering, since you had said something about "doing it cheaper," or "saving money" or something, so it had appeared irresponsible. But it sounds like you've prepared for it, and have a good plan.
I agree, we do best when we do what we are passionate about!
Puppy
Right, I guess to be clear that dilemma is do I...
A: Stay in my nice apartment with my affectionate loving Cat, my clean comforatable setup, and my privacy for one more month.
or
B: Scramble to move out to save a cool 1,000 bucks of living expenses and find myself back at home depressed with no Cat (my mom's allergic), no nice amenities, minimized privacy, and parents potentially getting on my nerves.
It's also depressing to think that I had worked very hard to make our apartment such a nice place for us both to live and this is the circumstance that I'm leaving it under.
Puppy, I love how you are able to boil down these "tough" choices to thier obvious simplistic solutions.
You're right, staying put for the rest of 2009 would probably take a load off my mind and keep me moving at a pace I'm comforatable with. Financially I may regret it if I end up in NYC or LA scraping the bottom of my bank account. But I guess one more month of staying put is still playing it safe and leaving myself room to be financially prepared. I know I've had friends move to these places with next to no money to fall back on so maybe I should relax a little and just treat life like a holiday for one month.
I admit it makes me feel irresponsible but stepping back I have to ask irresponsbile to whom? My wife who's dating Joe Schmuck Face? My non existant kids?
As long as I'm not fooling myself and I know that by January I'm probably making the move.
I suppose I can take it as a sign that work just asked me if I'd mind sticking around the first two weeks of Dec. to train my replacement.
Hard to complain about money when I have the option of getting a little extra.
Journalling to think about how I'm going to handle the next few months. I'm trying to think about what has/hasn't worked since this whole thing began and how I can reorganize my life and improve those tactics...
-GALing was going GREAT! I was feeling better about myself, having fun, and W was calling me more, missing me more, and spontaneously showing up at my door "wanting to kiss me." From mid September through the end of October I was soaring. Wife's mental problems (cutting herself) got my attention big time and she accused me of not caring so I tried to rotate some attention to her out of pure concern for her health and safety. She got me. I've been emailing and calling her too much to check up since then. I need to let her call me and not answer the first few times. Getting back to her a day or two later sometimes with an Email. (Drives her nuts, but I'm sure she doesn't realize this is how she treats me!) I also need to continue to find new activities to get involved in and meet new people. That's been VERY challenging. All my socially active "fun" friends wound up in W's camp. That means I have responsible dependable people to lean on, but they aren't helping me meet new friends. I need to find opportunities to meet new poeple or at least shake things up and reconnect with people I don't normally see.
-Setting Boundaries. I have clearly communicated to W that she should NEVER bring up OM to me in conversation ever. She has respected that and hasn't done it in some time except when we spoke in front of her therapist (which I can allow depending on the reason he's brought up.) I need to think about what other critical boundaries I can set without resorting to giving an ultimatum I'm not quite ready to follow through on. I know W depends on me for emotional support and closeness and she shouldn't get that while dating someone else. This is tricky because she doesn't deserve it right now, but I feel like one of my failings in our marriage was emotional distance. I guess I'd rather hold and reassure her about the things she deserves reassurance for to show her it's a plus of our relationship. OM won her by fanning her ego and connecting with her emotionally and now she's not getting that from him so why not let her get it from me (for now) under certain circumstances? If she's not talking about OM problems I feel like that can be a positive way for us to interact.
-W and I talked in front of her Therapist! I count this as a victory. W and I were both pleased with the session, and everyone is willing to do it again. My IC is also willing to rotate some sessions with both of us in so that we can each continue to get individual therapy while improving communication. It certainly couldn't hurt. W's therapist was emphasizing that W has a lot of work to do on herself before she needs to give up OM or reconsider our marriage. That was very discouraging. BUT maybe I can use that to my advantage. If I detach more and GAL effectively again, and W tries to accuse me of not caring or calling her enough I can blame it on advice that I got from HER therapist. "We've been told we can't work on our marraige right now. So I'm not. No pressure whenever you're ready. Always happy to talk about where things are going (when I'm not busy.)"
-She likes to threaten me by accusing me of not wanting to be married whenever she feels I'm not caring about her in a way that makes her feel good. I need to let that roll off of me, shrug and say "that's not true." That's a very effective way she has gotten me to fight with her and pay more attention to her. More tough love, less caving.
-Holidays are depressing. This is the most depressing year of my entire life. BUT again maybe I can turn this to my advantage. I like Christmas and New Years, and my Birthday is also in December. So i probably won't be spending them with my W? That's too bad, but the first 22 years of my life I celebrated holidays without her. I have a HUGE family and there are plenty of things going on this month that can and should be fun. I shouldn't need her to celebrate things I can celebrate with lots of other loved ones. She has a fractured relationship with her mother (due to her affair) and a very shallow unstable boyfriend. If one of us is going to be unhappy and miss the other, I can play my cards so that it's going to be her. No warm family gatherings. No husband showering her with gifts and affection. I think she needs another taste of life without me, and I need to NOT feel bad about letting her have it.
-Last time I GALed I think I came accross as cold and uncaring. I'd like to develop a slightly different approach this time. One that's more "Feel free to innitiate affection with me, but I'll be fine whether or not you do," or "I'm not craving your attention but I like it." I want to conduct myself with her as someone who truly wants his marriage back, but is following the advice of her therapy and not forcing something that she "can't" give yet.
These are the best solutions I can come up with for my situation right now.
Journaling because there have been no significant developments and I want to maintain awareness of this situation.
I've been GALing and ignoring W for the most part, and she seems to be doing an even better job of ignoring me. I guess I'll take that as a sign of some mental stablity on her part.
I did leave her a very brief courtesy Happy Thanksgiving message to which she did not respond, and I Emailed her last night because I noticed/remembered that there are some very odd pictures on her Facebook of her, myself, and OM from a play we all did together when we were friends. I asked her to remove/delete them and she respectfully replied today to say that she had and that she would give me a call soon (apparatnly she's been sick which could account for quietness on her front.)
Last night I also dug out our wedding pictures and shredded any and all pictures of OM (he was an usher!) I'll have to get the proofs from my mother in law and do the same. I figure if our marriage works out, I'll NEVER want to see his face in our wedding album, and if it doesn't I don't want those pictures to exist or resurface in this modern world of facebook and myspace. If/when she finds out that I've done this I have a feeling she'll be understanding. But if she has a problem with my destroying her pictures I could care less under the circumstances. I was worried it would be upsetting to dig through the albums, but it was actually a lot of fun to rip out the pictures and calmly run threm through the paper shredder! There were a few shots of three I was able to cut him out and keep me and a friend, or W and a friend in tact. If she can rewrite history so I!
In talking to W's mother apparantly W still talks about moving back in with me as something that could likely happen, which is a little surprising to me considering how minimal her effort to communicate/spend time with me has been. I guess I still feel like the outcome of this situation is going to be 50/50, either she does, or she doesn't.
The Seperation was supposed to last until January and I just don't expect her to have made up her mind about anything by then. She doesn't seem to be trying very hard to figure her life out, at least not in any way that I can concretely observe.
Next weekend I'm taking a trip to Los Angeles to visit friends and explore the city. I'm contemplating moving to a new city if my marriage fully fails, and it's on my list of potentials. On Dec. 11th I have my new last day of work, and I'm going to set up a creative writing regiment and plan lots of fun Holiday acitivities to enjoy the extra time! Maybe I'll even start walking/losing weight again!
If you were paying a professional to advise you not to make decisions, you'd have a hard time being decisive, too. Sheesh.
You're doing well with a horrible situation.
Haha! Very good point! Thanks for your feedback. I feel like I've gotten some pretty thick skin these past six months. Hopefully patience will keep paying off even if it's very slowly.
Okay,
Well two weeks of hardly any contact at all with W. Today she finally decides to innitiate a polite conversational Email wishing me a safe enjoyable trip to L.A., telling me she'll check in on our cat while I'm gone, relating a strange dream she had, and telling me again how sick she's been with a bad cold. She also says "call me if you want", which makes me feel like a game is being played. If she wants to talk can't she just call me?
This is much more friendly and inviting than her last Email. Wondering if that's my greenlight to be friendly and conversational back or if I should give her a quick polite "Thanks, I hope you feel better".
The whole concept of DBing is getting murky for me, because our M is NOT on the mend yet, OM is still in the picture I assume, but our interactions have become astronomically healthier. Don't know if I want to do a 180 when a 90 or 145 might make me more attractive to her. I'm just sitting on the Email for now.
I guess I'm feeling like friendly Email conversation is probably good as long as I'm rarely the innitiator of it, and I'm not doing any of the following:
-trying to make plans to get together
-pushing for more therapy together
-talking about the R
-talking about the M
-tolerating any mention of OM
-Expecting/fishing for another reply from her
In a lot of ways I'm feeling like things we did/discussed when we first became friends have started returning (talking about dreams we had, her showing an interest in my writing/listing to me read things I wrote).
If I reply later today addressing some of the things she mentioned in a friendly/humorous way but try to keep it short I think that'll be good.
Took a trip out to L.A. this weekend to check it out as a possible destination for a post divorce fresh start.
It's my last night out of town and I had a really good time, but I'm not really feeling ready to make a move or completely give up on my marriage.
I feel like I still have so much anger towards her, but she's also given me cause to think she sincerely doesn't know what she wants. I believe that she loves me, but I don't know if she'll be willing to recommit. But she doesn't either. So I think I'm definately going to keep DBing for another couple of months and then reevaluate. Maybe I'll do some more solo traveling in early 2010. Maybe other local opportunities will arise in the meantime as well.
Not going to tell W I'm lukewarm about the idea of moving though. I want to make sure she knows she has no hold on me whatsoever unless she can give me a serious committment. And I want her to know that divorce without trying to save our marriage will mean I withdraw 100% from her life.
Still very few developments. Journaling here instead of writing to or calling W.
Tomorrow is my last day of work. I definately have started to feel very valuable and appreciated there, but I'm glad I'm leaving because I know banking is NOT what I want to do with my life and sitting still working 9-5 just doesn't make any sense right now if my W isn't ready to show any sign that we'll get back together and I have no financial responsibilities to anyone but myself.
One of our mutual friends will be coming into town for the holidays and I'm throwing a small party for her. I asked if she wanted me to invite my W, to which she said yes so I did include W on the email. W replied thanking me for the invitation and apologizing that she had not spoken to me in so long. Apparently one of her other friends is dealing with a tough family situation right now that she's been supportive of, which does account for not hearing from her this week.
Still I can't accept many excuses for her inattentiveness to our situation or me. Last time we physically spoke or saw each other in person (about three weeks ago!) she acted like we would make joint therapy something we could rotate into our lives. Not sure what happened to that idea????
I am silently counting these past three weeks of her disinterest and lack of communication against her, but will try to keep my interactions with her positive and optimistic and give her the impression I'm having a blast and have lots of great plans for the future (which I do).
Okay, minor update...
Last night had a bunch of good friends over for my birthday. Still after a month I've gotten nothing but these short sporatic Emails from wife. Haven't heard her voice or seen her since mid November. So I was curious if she would acknowledge my birthday.
Finally around 9:00 I get a text message: "Happy birthday. You're probably busy celebrating and I don't want to interrupt. But give me a call if you want to. I'll be home all night. I have gifts for you."
I was busy celebrating, so I did not give her a call. She's very hard to figure out. I still don't know if the dead air right now is good bad or nothing. Certainly that last little blip from her wasn't bad. I guess if I'm going to use DBing I should be waiting for her to contact me again. Just feel rude or weird when someone wishes me happy birthday and says they bought me gifts and I'm ignoring them.
I'm hitting a bit of a crossroads with 2010 and am finding myself flooded with many options on how to proceed with my life. I quit my job so that I have the option of moving to a new city, but I'm feeling unsure if I'm emotionally ready to completely turn my back on my marriage yet. So I've made this outline for myself. I'm going to take it to my therapist this week and think about it...
2010 OPTIONS:
I. Get a Divorce:
PROS: Will no longer have to deal with or worry about W. Will be able to date others free of guilt. Can move to an exciting new place.
CONS: Will be very painful and expensive. Could be rushing a huge decision. Likely would end all possibility of a future with W. A drastic solution to what may yet be a temporary situation. IF you divorce and later reconcile it will have been big hassle and a questionable expense.
THEN WHAT?
A. Move to New York,
1. PROS: Exciting. Have a good friend there who will help you meet new people. Close to the world of publishing. Very exciting and adventurous. Wonderful public transportation. LOTS to do all the time! Will get lots of exercise as a pedestrian.
2. CONS: Expensive. Far from loved ones. Nasty Weather. Public transportation has limitations. Cannot just get up and go. A hassle to permanently move, would have to be extremely invested in staying there for years.
B. Move to L.A.
1. PROS: Two friends there (not as close) can help you meet new people. Lots of people to collaborate with for film projects. Beautiful weather. More possible to “try it out” without a permanent move.
2. CONS: Bad traffic. Spread out. Known bad job market. Would need a car. Also Expensive plus gas and car expenses.
C. Stay in Chicago (see possibilities below). Look for a new job in Chicago and date new people.
1. PROS: Chicago is a great city. Everyone you love will still be here. Lots of new people to meet right here.
2. CONS: Too close to the pain of the divorce. Less adventurous.
II. Don’t Get a Divorce:
PROS: Still love W very much and would prefer not to divorce her. My first choice would be to continue my marriage IF my W offered me that. Buys more time to decide, and allow W to possibly reconsider our marriage. Ball stays in her court. May not yet be emotionally ready to abandon the situation so completely. Would certainly stay close to Chicago so family and friends would remain a strong presence. Can still travel and explore freely as long as I am careful about expenses. Time could reveal more clarity and better options. Healing from infidelity is a long delicate “zig zag” process, and W may yet continue to show signs of progress.
CONS: No dating. W may be encouraged to think she has me “on hold” and enabled to keep living her life the way she has been. Staying still and being indecisive could mean burning through savings faster. Will eventually feel greater pressure to get a new job or move. If I stay still too long I may not financially be able to move. W may very well NEVER want to try and work things out.
THEN WHAT?
A. Live at parent's home. Store things at family friend's house.
1. PROS: A certain level of comfort of being at home. More financial support from parents for food, bills, lodging. Can stay with friends to escape pressure from parents.
2. CONS: Parents are more likely to pry and pressure me into decisions about career and divorce. Mother has already begun to do so. Limited Privacy. Cat could NOT live with me. Alcoholic father gets on my nerves, in spite of being a very well intentioed and wise man.
B. Live at Best Friend's house.
1. PROS: They have offered me the same deal as my parents (no rent or bills). Could have my own space and probably keep my couch, bed, TV, and have my own décor. Might feel homier. Friend and Wife are less likely to pressure me about divorce or job hunting. They are fun to be around. Would be “new” and “different”, and feel less “regressive” than living with parents again. A new community theater group is nearby. Cat COULD live with me. Can still travel often and have parents home be a second home. A writer to workshop with (friend's wife), and a buddy to have fun with (friend). They seem to WANT me to stay with them for now, but like me around and would be happy to have me watch the dog during the day and help with home projects. I could help them maintain and improve their home as a way to repay them and keep myself busy. Could be fun and exciting. Might still meet new people (Through theater?). I have lived with my friend as a roommate before and know we are mostly compatible as roommates (but this was before he was married.)
2. CONS: Thier privacy might be compromised (They are newlyweds). They have three cats and a dog, might be too many animals around. Guilt over not helping with their bills. I tend to drink a lot when I hang out with them, would have to be careful about forming bad habits. There could be other unforeseen incompatibilities with living there.
C. Stay in current apartment.
1. PROS: Easier. Wonderful mother in law across the hall. Close to therapy. Places to walk to. Convenience of the train to downtown. Complete and total privacy. Keep cat for sure.
2. CONS: W NEVER wants to live here again. It’s depressing. It’s FAR to expensive having quit my job. Too much isolation can become depressing.
OTHER FACTS TO CONSIDER:
-EVEN if W wants to reconcile it will be important to reintegrate yourself into her life very carefully. If you stay in Chicagoland to work on your relationship with her it will be important not to rush back into living together. You will still need a “Home Base”.
-It’s feasible to have multiple “homes” for a while and be nomadic.
-You can TRAVEL without MOVING.
-Staying in Chicagoland for now will be better for current film project, and will probably make writing more prolific.
-Moving is a BIG expense.
-You have almost $20,000.00 to your name. Without bills, rent, and reduced food expenses this will last a LONG time. Living in a new city unable to find a job, not as long.
-Make time your friend.
-Writing and trying to get published FULL TIME, might be just as adventurous as moving to a new city.
Frosty Michael:
Wow! Way to go on organizing your thoughts! If only if were so easy to pick one way or the other, huh?
Depending on your decision re: divorce, MY vote is CA!
I'm in your area, and this weather is for the birds!
A writer in the entertainment industry, huh? Nice! I'm jealous. I've always wanted to write. I continue to sell for a living in the biotech industry. It's good, too, but it's not nearly as creative!
Good luck w/your decisions. It appears you have done your homework!
Thanks, Mindfull. I found it very helpful to do that. It forced me to realize what sounded most positive to me for now.
DISCLAIMER- ABOUT TO VENT...
Unfortunately It's late at night and I'm finding myself sitting on a great big pile of anger. One of W's friends posted another photo album of W out on the town with OM on facebook for EVERYONE to see. That coupled with the EXTREME disinterest W has shown our relationship (even if you think of it as just a frienship) has got be boiling over right now. Purely to blow off steam I drafted this letter. I have no intention of sharing it with her...
_______________________
Dear W:
I have very patiently waited for six months to see what you have in you, what you have to offer my life, and what positive steps you are taking to heal your own life. I have felt tremendous love and respect for you for the past ten years and know that you have unlimited potential to be a good, honest, hard working, compassionate person in all areas of your life. Unfortunately you have stopped showing me any of these qualities. Through your actions and inactions you have suggested to me that you are disinterested in exploring your own potential for decency and emotional responsibility. Your cold, inconsiderate disregard for me, our history, our relationship, my life, my humanity, and the horrible pain and disrespect you have brought to me and my entire family astounds me. You have proved to be a vapid, self-centered, inconsiderate, childish brat over and over again. Not only do you not understand how to maintain and nurture adult friendships and relationships, but you seem to have no drive to figure it out and improve yourself. I hope that some day you learn that you are not the center of the universe and that leading your life as a selfish inconsiderate pleasure seeking child will leave you feeling incredibly unfulfilled and make you a miserable person for others to deal with.
I have worked tirelessly to wrestle with the issues that your selfishness and lust have inflicted me with. I feel that I have courageously overcome one of the greatest obstacles of my life, and I am proud of all the hard work that I have put into understanding what has happened. I know that some day I will use what I have learned from trying to save our relationship to build a truly wonderful meaningful one with someone else. I have held forgiveness, patience, and understanding for you that you have taken for granted. I have been violated in one of the worst ways a human being can be by both you and your empty sex-toy-man-child. It takes a tremendous amount of strength and courage to move on from being a victim of this incredibly heinous crime, and I am proud to be emerging as a better person than I ever was before whether or not you will ever truly understand that. I have heard you speak of yourself as being “courageous” for being “open” about your lifestyle and “surviving” this transition. Whether or not you’ll agree, I know there is nothing courageous about violating other people. Nothing courageous about quitting and abandoning a loved one. And nothing courageous about demeaning yourself by associating with degenerates. Even people who have shotgun weddings have the decency to try it for a year before throwing thier hands up in the air and shrugging thier shoulders. It is so extremely sad that you married your best friend who you had a four year relationship with, and could not find it in you to make it past eight months. You’re better than that. Your family is better than that. Your actions are shameful to the intelligent, wonderful woman you have every right be. Your actions are shameful to the wonderful mother and grandparents who raised you. There are no excuses for being that shallow. For someone who is so vocal about her resentment about being abandoned by her father, you were awfully quick to imitate him.
I’m certain that you understand my bitterness towards our marriage and our relationship which you have abandoned without putting any sincere effort into saving or understanding. You have used me as an emotional crutch for years with no intention of returning the unconditional support I offered. You embarrassed and humiliated me in front of all my loved ones by proceeding with an incredibly expensive farce of a wedding. You callously ripped out my heart and smeared it on the ground by repeatedly flaunting your relationship in public, and sharing horrific details of your shameful and sickening lust for a dirty washed up old man. But I also want you to know that you have taken our friendship and treated it like a house plant that you put in a closet and deprived of water and sunlight for months. In order to be loved, respected, and appreciated, any relationship is give and take. When you do not return phone calls, show any compassion, concern or appreciation for people who care about you, you not only lose their respect and their love, but you also make them think very lowly of you as so many people, myself included, now do. You are a grown woman. It’s time to stop acting like a thirteen year old who thinks the world revolves around her. Absolutely everyone has issues. Everyone deals with grief. Not just you. Many people cope with them on a daily basis, have healthy happy relationships, and overcome them though hard emotional work and sincere reflection. It disgusts me that you hide behind issues of abandonment and loss to justify living irresponsibility. I am becoming truly convinced that all you do is go through the motions and wait for valuable insight and epiphanies to “happen”. They won’t. You could attend weekly therapy for the rest of your life and bitch about your childhood or the pressures of modern society, but as long as you keep living your life like an immature, inconsiderate brat you will never be happy.
It is with great pleasure that I end this relationship and move on to much better things to come. I am thrilled to close this chapter of my life and only regret that I have wasted a decade caring so deeply and selflessly about someone who had no reverence for the love I gave her. Only babies deserve unconditional love. Adults who expect it are emotional and social parasites. I take some small amount of pleasure that you have paired yourself off with someone much more shallow and childish than yourself. Perhaps some day that will motivate you to change.
With Scathing Hatred,
H
____________________________
I must repeat... I'm NOT SENDING this letter to my W. I refuse to become so vindicitve. But the fact that I was angry enough that that came out of me really makes me wonder why I would wait any longer for her??? I'm not sure what I'm doing here folks. I don't want to give up on my W as a human being but I guess my resentment has grown more than I realized. She really makes me want to vomit right now.
too much thinking and writing.
find yourself a female friend to take your mind off your wayward wife
I seriously don't know any 26 year olds that talk or write like that, I'm glad you got it off your chest, don't ever write a letter like that to your wife and give it to her, in her state, she will just laugh at you.
Start dating, start seeing other women, not for the purpose of getting into a relationship but solely to boost your confidence, pump up your self esteem & self-value and take your mind off of your wife.
I seriously don't know any 26 year olds that talk or write like that, I'm glad you got it off your chest, don't ever write a letter like that to your wife and give it to her, in her state, she will just laugh at you.
Start dating, start seeing other women, not for the purpose of getting into a relationship but solely to boost your confidence, pump up your self esteem & self-value and take your mind off of your wife.
Well I am actually 27 now
And I know not to give it to her like I said in my post. Nothing good will come of it. But I actually don't believe We're at a point where she would laugh at me. I think it would tear her to shreds and be incredibly cruel. I don't want to be the person who does that to her.
As far as getting a "lady friend" goes, I just don't believe in dating while I'm married. Not because I don't know there are plenty of better women to choose from right now. Not because of any loyalty I feel for my unfaithful spouse. But it just plain strikes me as unfair to the OW to be involved with a married man. Not sure how to go about finding a nice girl who I would WANT to be with who is only looking for a good time. I guess that makes me as bad as her. Using people as emotional crutches with no serious intention to commit to them. I'd rather get a divorce and then date, but I think I'd regret that. Still feeling pretty angry this morning.
Well, if one on one "dating" isn't what you feel is best what about going out in groups and meeting new people? No harm in that, right? That is what I started doing about a year ago and it was just what I needed... interesting new people, new things to do and it was a nice way to ease back in the "single life".
My neighbor is a super good friend of mine and has been for 10 years. He has had a rough couple of years as well due to health issues, a job loss, a long stretch of unemployment and the death of his mom. He and I decided to make a pact for 2010 and take turns coming up with something new and different to do each month. So far we decided to take a Latin dancing class in Jan. once he gets home from a trip he is taking and in Feb. we are going to go to an indoor rock climbing facility and climb the wall! There is nothing romantic going on between us and it's nice to try new things with a good friend!
I agree with that suggestion CityGirl, thanks. I've been trying to find writers groups and such but haven't had a lot of luck. I'll try harder in 2010 to up the social life.
It's a big transition to change your social habits when you are used to having to consider your spouse or have a close group of friends that you and your spouse hang around with.
My dear friend went through a horrid breakup this year. Her and her BF were not married but had been together for a very long time. One thing she did that I loved (and had a great time at) was she hosted a party and for every person that she invited they had to bring a new friend to the party. It was lots of fun!
I have also met some very cool people while volunteering.
Thanks CityGirl. Those are all good ideas. I've been trying hard to meet new people but I have felt like I'm in a bit of a social rut. Many good friends but they don't help me branch out to new ones. Volunteering, community theater, and traveling could be the immediate ways to start rectifying this. And I STILL want to find a good writer's group.
Moving out and the increasing likliness of divorce are starting to hit me like a ton of bricks. I feel like a wreck tonight. I've been keeping pretty busy but it feels like any time I stop for a moment I feel devestated. None of the possiblities for my future are appealing to me at the moment. All my friends blew me off tonight. I know I need to GAL more and I'm usually all about that, but this week It's just not happening. Trying to vent in healthy ways...
My counselor taught me a little trick. For every negative thought I have I MUST counter it with a positive thought. And it doesn't necessarily have to be a positive thought about my H or the situation we are in but ANY positive thought.
I actually had to "train" myself to do this and did so by writing down the negative thought I had and what positive thought I came up with to balance it all out.
The good thing about that? When you feel like dog doo you really have to think hard about the positive thought and all that thinking sort of helps you back burner the negative thought. At the very least it helps your mind move in a better direction. When I first started doing this sometimes it would take me an hour to think of one positive thing but it's better than focusing on the negative.
Thanks again CityGirl. I'd been doing very well for a long time and just this week the reality of moving is scaring me. I didn't get to sleep last night until 7AM. Cried a few times, but I also worked on my novel, watched favorite movies, didn't reach for any alchohol, didn't call or write to my W, and didn't do anything self-destructive or counter-productive to my sitch overall. I'm hitting a rough spot, but I'm hoping this is just the bumpy ride getting bumpy again.
Some developments as I'm moving out of my Apt. I contacted my W regarding our cat and she had a semi-interesting response. Our Email Chain below...
________________________________
W,
Regarding (cat). I am able to take her with me for the foreseeable future. I'm happy to discuss the idea of you taking her for a while, but I'm a little concerned that I might never get to see her since you have been very unreceptive to the idea of spending time together or even talking on the phone for well over a month now.
Let me know how you feel about this. I don't plan to abscond with (cat) never for you to see her again while things are still up in the air.
Love,
H
______________________________
Hi H,
Are you moving in with your parents or (friends)? I'd like to know what kind of environment (cat) would be living in. I would still like to discuss the possibility of a joint custody arrangement although I'm also fine with you continuing to care for her the majority of the time (as long as she's in a good environment) as the two of you have bonded so much over the past months.
I wanted to let you know why I haven't made much of an effort to reach out to you this past month. First of all, I feel that neither of us has made much of an effort besides the occasional phone call and/or email. So I felt that perhaps you were trying to pull away from me and I didn't want to interfere with whatever you needed to do for your own well being.
The main reason I have avoided contact is for the very simple reason that whenever I feel emotionally unstable my first instinct is to run to you or call on you for emotional support. I don't think that that is fair to either of us but especially not to you. If I expect you to be my main form of emotional support then I should also make you my go to person for social interactions, sexual interactions, etc.
I feel that I've been continuing to make progress in therapy as far as learning why I've done a lot of things I've done and made the choices I've made. I have been working on a short story of sorts (although it's subject matter is probably not very interesting except to those involved) detailing my thoughts and feelings leading up to and during our marriage in the hopes to give you some insight into them and open up some dialogue.
I'll admit it's very daunting for me to see you and speak with you because I am terrified that I will want to hold you and have you take care of me and again, that is not fair. I'm trying very hard to be strong and figure out who I am and what I need. Maybe if I had a clearer idea of that when we got married, none of this would have happened.
Anyway, now I'm babbling. I hope you're doing okay and that you don't hate me too much for my lack of contact this past month.
I do love you and want what's best for both of us.
Love,
W
-------------------------------------------------------------
Since this Email, I've thanked her for being honest, told her I'm glad she's making progress in IC, and clarified for her that I'm not trying to pull away that I'm merely not putting pressure on her and focusing on other things. That I've put my feelers out to see how interested she is in communicating and that she hasn't appeared interested. I told her that I'd be happy to talk about her taking the cat on the phone or in person, but would want to be able to visit semi-regularly if she had the cat. I tried to throw it out there that we can have social "catching up" visits where we don't have to talk about marriage or relationships and I can see the cat once a week or once every two weeks. And that I don't feel the need to discuss M and R without a mediator. She hasn't responded to that yet.
Also in more discouraging news I found out from mother in law W's now involved in TWO different shows. One involving OM and one not involving him. Sounds like she's overloading herself with theater responsiblities again and not giving herself time to deal with her issues like she said she would. Makes me kind of regret having made that show of good faith about the cat.
UPDATE...
I'm all moved out and living with good frieinds. I have our cat which makes me very happy and have a very comforatable living space with my bed, TV, couch, and other comforts. I'm trying out for a play, have a partime job I can do from home lined up to get me through this transition, am writing a lot, and all considered things are going great.
HOWEVER, got an urgent sounding E-Mail from a good friend yesterday. Sounds like W has had a major nervous breakdown and there may have been a suicide attempt Sunday night. She's in the care of her mother right now and being evaluated at a hospital today to determine if she'll need in patient or out patient care.
I've witnessed her through some wild ups and downs the past six months, and every time she crashes it gets worse. I kind of wish I knew what was going on. I did talk to my W briefly. She was crying and sounded glad to hear from me, but we didn't really talk long. I talked to her mother for a while too and it just sounds like all the responsibilties she's piled on herself are crushing her, plus all of her unresolved issues that she's ignored and swept under the rug rising to the surface.
It stinks that my W is having a breakdown and I can't be with her. I want to comfort her so badly, but I know there's that chance I could do that and help her through the most difficult time of her life and she'd just reject me again. Not sure how to handle this. I've told her and her mother that I'm available to talk and help however I can. Not sure what else I can do. And I'm not sure what I should do.
Okay, another update. I spoke with my Mother In Law and found out that my W is in a psychiatric ward. It could just be overnight, or it could be as long as two weeks. OM was there with them when she was admitted which makes me feel horrible and very angry at him. He leads her down this path of self destructive behavior then gets to also play knight in shining armor when she gets to this point??? He's sick. I really hope no matter what happens to our marriage that she can see that.
I gave a letter to my MIL to give to W saying that I'm proud of her for getting the help she needs and admire her courage. I told her that I'm happy to talk or visit her if it's something she wants, but I also have no problem maintaining distance if she thinks seeing me will be bad for her. Basically I don't want to put any pressure on her. I have a feeling she did this for herself because she feels she needs to isolate herself from everything and everyone in her life and figure stuff out.
It defiantely hurts though. I want to be there for her in sickness and health etc. I know she's the one who has destroyed our marriage and rejected my support but I still feel terrible. I think I would have an easier time keeping distance if I knew more about what was going on.
This situation is very hard. I feel like it's eating away at me a little. I've been pretty good at distracting myself and accepting that I can only do so much.
My MIL gave W my letter but she's been very occupied by what sounds like round the clock group therapy sessions etc. It makes me livid to think that OM visits her and is probably acting in a supportive role while I'm squeezed out.
There are payphones there where I can get in touch with her but it's very difficult to get through. I've tried a couple times and nobody picks up. And even if they do she might be in therapy, (which is actually good!)
I know calling her is pursuit, but given the situation I feel I can adjust my DBing. It would be wrong in this situation to feel so much compassion and not express it to her, as long as I maintain my boundary about never discussing OM or her relationship with OM and don't put ANY pressure on her about our M.
I am so sorry to hear about all of this. It is a very delicate situation and I am not sure there is a correct way to deal with it. I understand how frightened you must be and I am glad your MIL is able to give you updates (about your W's health I mean).
I think in situations like this compassion is just right. Nobody wants to learn somebody they care about is in so much distress they need to be hospitalized. I know when I was hospitalized my H did come and I was able to tolerate it (even though I asked him not to come) but it made my sister and brother in law very angry which made me more stressed. I later learned my H sat in the parking lot in his car all night. I am not sure there is a right or wrong thing you can do right now.
Let us know how you are doing. I wish I had some great advice to offer you.
Thanks for your support CityGirl.
I did manage to get through to W on one of the pay phones just a few minutes ago. She sounded very bitter and cold. She said she wasn't doing well and hadn't read my letter yet. I told her that I wanted to support her in any way that I could, whether that was by visiting and talking, or by giving her space. She merely said "okay" not indicating if she even wanted one or the other. Just from her attitude I feel like she doesn't want much to do with me right now, but she could just be masking her pain with anger which she often does. She got off the phone very quickly saying she had to call her mother and that she "wasn't getting out of there any time soon."
I did not expect something like this to happen. It's driving me a little nuts, but I think I handled the conversation as well as I could have. I guess I shouldn't call her again for now. I went out for a morning drive, got groceries etc and am going to make myself a nice dinner later. I have a cartoon I'm working on which hopefully will distract me today. I also found out last night that I got a lead in the play I tried out for which made me happy and excited. I have a lot to feel good about for myself, but my heart is just aching for this awful situation.
I guess I'm just going to have to feel the pain, keep life going, and keep an eye on my W's situation. I really hope this is a turning point for her. Even if we still get divorced she deserves a happier healthier life than the one she's been living these past six months.
I think when people are hospitalized for psychiatric care it is generally a very overwhelming experience. There are group therapies that are not optional, everything is very structured, you are meeting new dr's and you are surrounded by people that are in dire straights. New medications are being introduced and I can imagine it's pretty frightening an awful lot to process.
I think you handled things very well. All we can do for another human being in such medical distress is let them know we are available if they so desire.
I am very glad to hear you have some GREAT distractions (new work, the play). It might help to sort of throw yourself in to a new project.
Thanks again. It does sound very much like what you described where she is. I'm trying not to take her coldness personally. I'm sure she's very distressed and probably coming accross as angry to everyone who's reaching out to her. She's probably going to be there until Monday at least. She may not have the time and energy to even think about whether or not she wants to see me right now.
I've taken some time to just sit and be sad, my beautiful little while cat came up to me and laid down on my chest with me. She's such a comfort. I feel like I need to just eat something and focus on a project, just like you said.
I have never had the experience myself but a very good friend of mine recently did. She was trying to deal with so much in her life (both of her parents died really suddenly within 6 months of each other, she has very serious marriage problems, her H has been out of work forever and she has three small children). She had so pressure on her and she just sort of broke down.
I know everybody has a different experience but she said all she wanted to do was rest and cry but she had to stick to a very rigid program (therapy and such) and it was exhausting. I guess, from what I understood, routine is very important.
I am glad you have your cat - pets are so great! Yes, do make yourself some food and focus on work or a project for a while. Give yourself a little break from all this worry and stress. Be well!
Hi FM!
I just wanted to see how you were doing today? Did you get to work on your new cartoon or anything for the play? How is your cat?
Hi CityGirl!
I did spend most of yesterday afternoon and evening working on my cartoon. Talked to MIL and a good mutual friend of W and myself, and got some good feedback that I'm doing all I can and handling things well.
I have an appointment today with my IC so I'm going to try to make the most of that.
And the cat is good! She's having a bit of a stressful time I think because we've moved into a friend's house where there were already 3 other cats and a dog! She's used to being an only child. So far there's only been one high speed cat chase!
Glad to read your last post - lots of good things!
My sister had a dog then she rescued two cats. I think the cats hid in her bedroom for two weeks before the ventured out. When the cats tangle with each other or the dog my sister gets out her spray bottle and gives them a squirt. They go running.
I always laugh when I watch all three of her animals interact. You can almost see the cats plotting against the poor dog and the dog falls for it EVERY time.
Found out W was released from the hospital. She's staying with her mother and will be continuing to recieve outpatient psychiatric care for a little while.
UPDATE: W is still receiving outpatient care and has taken a leave of absence from work. Over the weekend I finally got some insight from her mouth directly into my ear for a change. She called me Friday night sounding very upset and distraught. She said she had cut her thigh. I stayed on the phone and talked to her until she started falling asleep.
Saturday night she invited me over to her place. We had a very nice conversation, laughed a lot, caught up, and I ended up spending the night with her. No love making, just emotionally supportive. There were indeed some nasty cuts on her thigh, and the door of her bathroom had been broken in and was hanging on one hinge. He place tells the story of a very sad situation, and it makes me wish there were more cautionary examples in our society about infidelity.
I've been good about maintaining my boundary of not caring to discuss OM. He did come up a few times only for her to say that most of what was upsetting her was things "I didn't want to hear about". She also let a few things slip about him that I did not respond to or pursue in conversation.
After cross examining the tidbits I heard from W with more solid info from our mutual friend, I've learned that OM is trying to make her mental breakdown about him. The two of them have had a few big fights and he's berated her for her behavior telling her things like "if you keep this up you'll go into the psyche ward and never come out!" He has also aledgedly quit her theater over a dispute about a playbill or something. Again, I'm not sure how seriously to take that. Knowing my W, quitting the theater could be the nail in the coffin of thier relationship (sad that his emotional abuse wasn't enough on its own.)
I've Emailed W and the director of the show going up next weekend and casually let them know that if they needed extra help I'd be happy to do tickets or concessions or something, but only if OM has really quit the theater. I know for a fact that without him they're short handed and his absence would make me and probably a few other people happy to help out. It's simple math to me, lose one lunatic and gain a handful of helpful responsible people. We'll see how that equation works out for my W...
I'm going to wear my pessimism goggles about this theater business though. My expectation is that OM, being unstable and immature will reverse his "I've quit the theater" drama and continue to aggravate things rather than offer real support and love for my W.
The good thing is the darkness and the distance between myself and W has lifted for now. She and I talked last night as well. A good casual conversation about this and that. I'm finding it easy to be supportive without having to say anything or react in any way to her dysfunctional relationship with OM and feel like my role as a good friend is exactly where I should be given her recent crisis.
In other news they play I'm involved in is going very well and my life continues to be quite pleasant.
Wow. You are handling yourself very well in all this.
Thanks Andabelle.
I definately think having taken the time to reevaluate and reorganize my life put me in a very good position to handle this situation. I no longer have the stresses of my 9-5 job. I'm occupying myself with things I have a passion for. My monthly expenses are way down. And I'll soon have money coming in that will keep me from depleting my savings even if it will be a fraction of what I used to make. I'm in good shape to sit tight and see how this plays out for a bit longer.
That's not to say it might not get worse before it gets better, but for now I'm okay. No matter what I always have the option of moving and divorcing. I definately feel for her situation, and I do still love her so I'm going to just sit tight and be her friend. If it's meant to be that will really mean something to her when all is said and done.