Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: wanttobebetter How did I get here? - 09/14/09 03:22 PM
Ok - been reading for awhile and just read DB and DR this weekend.

Me 33, she is 30. 3 kids - the oldest is my stepchild (9), and then we have two (S is 3, D is 5). This is my first marriage, her second.

We married in 2003 and about a year later we had our D. Since that time she quit work and stayed home. I thought we had a great life and marriage. I could tell last year she she was getting antsy. She found a job in banking (what she did before) and starting working again in Aug 2008. We did not need the money it was pretty much for her. She had finished college while at home with the kids.

Since going back to work, we have experienced major changes, starting primarily this spring. She has become very involved in work taking up a lot of any free time we would have and I have felt almost like a single Dad on many occasions. A lot of social activity, going to bars - just a totally different person than before. This caused a lot of friction and fights because my wife is changing dramatically in front of me and I can't understand why. I am a much more communicative and emotional person than my wife and she can't stand this about me. I do admit I was pursuing her and trying to make sense of everything going on. Her Mom and sister even contacted me because they became concerned. Her first marriage ended when she was having an affair when the stepchild at the time was one.

Approximately one month ago, I got the IMILWYBNILWY speech, she is independent, I'm going to do what I want to do, we never do anything fun, I'm 30 and have not accomplished anything, she wants to grow in her career, etc. Classic signs to me of a MLC at 30. Oh, and she got botox a few weeks ago.

She has lied to me on a few occasions about who she has been hanging out with. I honestly do not know this person I am living with.

I consulted with a divorce attorney purely for protection and advice. A couple of weeks ago (we are still living together, even sleeping in the same bad - no contact though)we even discussed how we would separate stuff if we went uncontested. I really felt as if she was wanting me to file as I think, in her mind, this would make it easier for her.

I told her a few days later divorce is not what I want and she would have to file on me.

Since then I have been employing some 180 techniques and going about living my life. I have got the usual "I can see you making some changes but I take it as an act". I do feel a lot better about myself as I have had some dark days.

I took my ring off a few days ago to make a statement that I am living my life and everything does not revolve around her. All of these techniques have produced some + responses as she has had a lot more questions about what I am doing. She even asked me about talking to a Dr. to help her get some stuff straight in her head. Now she has taken her ring off and that is really bothering me...inside. I haven't made notice of it or said anything.


Am I going in the right direction? How much patience do I need? I really do love her but I am scared!!! We have been a vicious circle for months now and I want a better marriage. She has told me I don't know how we could ever get back to where we were but my reply was that we don't. We need to go forward.

Help!!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: How did I get here? - 09/14/09 03:40 PM
Sorry you find yourself here, but this is a great place for help.

Quote:
Am I going in the right direction? How much patience do I need? I really do love her but I am scared!!! We have been a vicious circle for months now and I want a better marriage. She has told me I don't know how we could ever get back to where we were but my reply was that we don't. We need to go forward.


You will need LOTS of patience. Then you'll need some more. This is a long journey.

Why did you take off your ring? Some may have different opinions on that issue, but I would put it back on.

Here is a list of tips I found early on (they are from another poster, but they really helped me):

1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.

2. Don't despair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.

3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".

4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.

5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own time frame.

6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.

7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.

8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)

9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.

10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/14/09 04:28 PM
Great advice.....I have been doing all of the above and have noticed some positive changes coming from her. I really do feel better about myself. I hope it all works out but if it does not, I know I will be ok. I used to do alot of nagging and always wanted to talk, talk, talk....not anymore.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/15/09 08:05 PM
Well she called while I was out of town (1 night for work) and said if we didn't use my attorney and do it uncontested she would get her own and it would cost us alot more. I did slip some and asked her to really consider her decision. I feel like she is throwing everything away and for what? She has no plan for the future for herself. I told her she needed to get moved out then and she said she would when she knew her income (child support). What do I do tonight? Just agree????
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: How did I get here? - 09/15/09 08:42 PM
Quote:
Well she called while I was out of town (1 night for work) and said if we didn't use my attorney and do it uncontested she would get her own and it would cost us alot more. I did slip some and asked her to really consider her decision. I feel like she is throwing everything away and for what? She has no plan for the future for herself. I told her she needed to get moved out then and she said she would when she knew her income (child support). What do I do tonight? Just agree????


Meet with her to talk about it. Let HER do the talking. Then, tell her you need some time to think about it. Go talk to your L about it so you will have an idea of what you are looking at if you have her get her own L.

You don't have to make any decisions tonight.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/15/09 09:58 PM
She is going to see it as me putting off the inevitable. If it has to come to this I would rather do it uncontested. I just wish she would wake up and see herself in the mirror.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/16/09 03:57 PM
Had a talk this morning. She basically she admits she is selfish and feels as if she would rather be alone and is never getting married again. She admits she can push her feelings and emotions away and not deal with them.

She is pretty much letting me have whatever I want in the divorce which is good....not making it about money. But I really want my wife back and to have the family I always thought I would have.
Posted By: overwhelmed35 Re: How did I get here? - 09/16/09 04:07 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Had a talk this morning. She basically she admits she is selfish and feels as if she would rather be alone and is never getting married again. She admits she can push her feelings and emotions away and not deal with them.

She is pretty much letting me have whatever I want in the divorce which is good....not making it about money. But I really want my wife back and to have the family I always thought I would have.


Wow. That sounds exactly like my H. He said he thinks he would be happier alone and for the last few years, when he thinks of the future, he pictures himself alone. He has no vision of a future for us. He also said he wanted me and our D to stay in the house and he'd leave us almost everything.

All this was over 3 months ago and he's still there in the house with us with no apparent plan to move. We're still sleeping in the same bed and have even been intimate. So, employ the DB techniques and maybe things will look up for you too.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: How did I get here? - 09/16/09 05:00 PM
Quote:
She is going to see it as me putting off the inevitable. If it has to come to this I would rather do it uncontested. I just wish she would wake up and see herself in the mirror.


Let that go. It isn't going to happen any time soon. She's in the fog.

Quote:
She basically she admits she is selfish and feels as if she would rather be alone and is never getting married again.


I heard nearly identical comments from my W. My W was certain her feelings would not change - "I am resolute in my decision." She's still here and that was almost 5 months ago. And, we are slowly becoming friends again.

This is a long term process. If you aren't up for it, so be it. If you want to save your M, get ready for a long haul. Oh, and it won't be easy. But, when has anything worthwhile been easy?

Drag your feet for now. So what if she sees you as putting off the inevitable. So what. What do you have to lose? Look at yourself, make changes you need to make, then live them in front of her. Work on detaching as well.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/16/09 10:59 PM
I have made some great changes. And she recognizes that...she will even say it. Of course she has said they are probably just an act. I did it for me..and I can tell I did it for me.

I am up for it....I really feel like my wife is somewhere inside this crazy creature. She is definitely wanting her freedom and to explore anything and everything. I think she sees a marriage as holding her back. She has said she is not marriage material.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/17/09 05:53 PM
No R talk last night. She gave me money this morning for an attorney and she is actively looking for somewhere to live. I can feel that she does not really want to but she is so hard headed you can almost see herself pushing herself to go through with it.

I can't do anything about it and only let it runs it course and see where her head takes here. Very frustrating.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/18/09 04:59 PM
Well she got an apartment this morning. We get along and have good conversations but she just doesn't want to be in our house. she said she didn't even care if we got divorced because she is never getting married again. She told me to go dates even!!!

What do I do now? She asked me to keep the kids away from the house during the first of October while she moves. She doesn't want them to see the moving of stuff out of the house and the new apartment until she has it all set up. I was in a good mood last night but today I'm just down in the dumps. I'm letting her get the best of me...
Posted By: Phoenixdeux Re: How did I get here? - 09/18/09 07:27 PM
You are doing fine. I suspect that going back to work resulted in increased male attention and I hope not an affair, but this stinks of it. Do you have any knowledge of an affair? I wouldn't start saying, "early MLC", that's just a way to excuse away her behavior.

Just read the rest...her walking away without anything really smacks of a cheater. She probably doesn't want the kids to come by cuz she'll be busy cheating. Check the cell phone records and consider a keylogger program if she uses the computer excessively. Just keep letting her see you strong, cool, collected, and being the best possible you.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/18/09 09:53 PM
There is definitely an increased amount of attention she is getting...

I am a new low right now. I was feeling great yesterday but today I physically hurt. I can't imagine anyone feeling like I do right now. I cannot see how I am ever going to feel better.
Posted By: Eskimo Nell Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 01:48 AM
Hi WTBB
I don't know what to say of your situation as I am struggling in my own, right now.

What I do want you to know is that the physical pain that you are feeling is very real ... and felt by many of us here. I have days where I just want to curl in a ball and die ... the pain is so intense.

What I will tell you is that there are better days. None of them (for me so far) are good but they are less awful, if that makes sense. You just have to try to find a distraction for your thoughts.

Posting here is a wonderful outlet for your feelings and I no longer worry about how much I write or vent ... if people want to read your rambling then they will - if not, they will move along. YOU will feel better for having put your thoughts down.

Read A LOT of posts here ... you will realise that other people DO feel the same way as you do and you will learn how they are coping. Follow suit. MAKE yourself get out and about and try to GAL. These are the only things that will lift you out of your funk.

That said, you must also allow yourself to feel the pain sometimes - it is real but so is your situation. You can't bury it - that's not healthy. It's just about how you ease the symptoms and start treating the 'illness' that makes the difference. Go for walks, get physical exercise, spend time by the water or in amongst the trees. The elements are so good for the soul and have physical properties which make us feel a bit more lifted.

Start taking the medicine and move towards your recovery. You will feel better, whatever the outcome. Just be kind to yourself and know that it takes time. This is a long row to hoe.

We are here with you ... good luck.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 01:45 PM
I am just hoping for the future...one she gets out on her own she will see how good we really had it and want to reconcile. But I have to prepare for the worst...that she will never want to.

I do see where other people have similar situations. That helps but at the same time it doesn't. I can tell they are in pain, but I feel mine.

I feel like the future we had together and the security of a good family was stripped out from underneath me. Very vunerable feeling.
Posted By: Buttercup37 Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 01:58 PM
I am so sorry to hear of your situation. The pain part really sucks...the first few weeks after H dropped the bomb, I felt like dying some days. I started looking at my part in it and felt even worse when I truly saw all my mistakes in the marriage. But the positive side of that and following DB recommendations has been that I am feeling better and better about myself week by week. My H's moods and mlc-behavior doesn't have to affect my happiness. It feels awful good to treat him with kindness, lightness, and keeping myself more busy. I really think following DB type principals can help save your sanity! (Not sure yet if it will save my marriage but time will tell.)

I don't know what the future will hold for you but keep yourself busy with the kids...is there any activity you'd always wanted to take them on but W never approved of? (Camping, hiking, sports, museums....etc?)
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 02:11 PM
I'm doing all I can with them but I have always done that. She has even made the comment the kids are always up my butt because I always spend time with them - I did not neglect her though.

Since she went back to work she has just changed. No other way to put it...she admitted this week she was selfish and just pushed all her feelings inside. I know she is scared inside but you would never know it by the way she acts. She keeps pushing herself to act like she is because she is afraid if she stops acting this way she will feel all the guilt.

She is moving into a 3 bedroom apt from a 3500 sq ft house in a perfect neighborhood that is close to school. She has not made a rational decision for a long time. I just don't know who she is and when she will ever, if ever, come out of it. How long do I hold onto this?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 06:30 PM
I had plans to go out with some neighbors tonight and she was going to watch the kids. I just got a text she found a babysitter so after she gets home she is going to go out. I feel like she is trying to 1up me. I didn't even respond.

I really don't want her to move out. I feel like all will be lost once she moves. I am playing it cool around her and not bringing it up, but it is killing me inside!!!! The kids don't even know anything about it.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/19/09 07:08 PM
I have been reading posts forever now...I would love to get some feedback from some of the "experts" on here such as Puppy, Coach, Sandi, etc.

I really want my family back and if she moves out, I'm afraid any chance of that will go along with her.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/20/09 05:57 PM
Last night I went out and bought my D and S new beds because she is going to take their old ones. I really enjoyed this and know when they get delivered they are going to have "new" rooms in the house they are used. The wife was a little less than thrilled about this but I did it for me and the kids, not to spite her. Feel like that is important to remember.

A neighborhood couple (still my friends) asked me to go out with them last night and I could tell that it bothered her. She has pretty much disconnected from everyone she ever knew. She is trying her best to block out her old life. I pray every day she can lift the fog and at least come to some realization. I am just along for the ride.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 01:07 AM
Quote:
The wife was a little less than thrilled about this but I did it for me and the kids, not to spite her. Feel like that is important to remember.


Right. If it was the right thing to do for YOU, then it was the right thing.

Quote:
A neighborhood couple (still my friends) asked me to go out with them last night and I could tell that it bothered her.


It's called GAL'ing and this is what it's supposed to do. That and help you recover and grow your self confidence.

Quote:
She has pretty much disconnected from everyone she ever knew. She is trying her best to block out her old life. I pray every day she can lift the fog and at least come to some realization. I am just along for the ride.


Not unusual at all. Initially, my W cut off anyone who did not validate her decision to D.

Hang in there. You're doing just fine.
Posted By: Changes Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 01:36 AM
WTBB. My W did the same thing. Withdrew from all her friendships. Just remember they were you friends as well. Having fun is such a good thing to do right now. Go see cloudy with a chance of meatballs. You will laugh til you hurt. The kids absolutely loved it and I did too.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 01:22 PM
WTBB - you're in the right place. So many of us can relate to EXACTLY what you are going through. It's hard to believe that anyone else could feel like you do, but that crippling physical pain that comes with all of this is something that I can relate to all too well.

I know you commented on my sitch, so you may have seen that my 30 yr old W decided that for the first time in her life to be an outgoing, barhopping, ultra "strong" person with no value for our previously storybook marriage.

It all feels like a nightmare that I need to wake up from.

Givingitmyall has given you some great advice. Much of it is co counterintuitive and takes more patience and strength than you have probably ever mustered up before. It can work though.

My W is still in my house, but doesn't wear her ring and is shopping for houses so she can move out. I continue to get a life and be positive as much as I can, but it's like there's a big head game at the Bunny Family house. I think there's a lot of MLC stuff in my sitch too.

The "I just feel so selfish, I see the changes you've made, but this just isn't for me, we're just putting off the inevitable with me staying here, blah, blah, blah,: is all just part of the script.

You're not alone.

You need to gage every reaction. You can't let her bait you into arguments. It only gives her reason to justify her actions. It's a lot easier to leave a guy who gets mad at her.

Take my word on this. It can get better, I've seen guys on here succeed. It will take a VERY long time though. I'm coming up on my 1 year ILYBNILWY anniversary.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 01:41 PM
Thanks for everyone's help. I am freaked out right now because she is supposed to sign a lease for an apt tomorrow. I know the advice I'm going to get....if she wants to leave let her. I am torn though because if I let her go, I feel like I am giving up. I REALLY want to talk to her tonight about it but I'm sure that would be considered a big backslide.

I feel so bad for my kids. S3 and D5 are young enough they don't really know what is going on but since we haven't being doing things together as a family as much lately, they can tell, especially D5. I can hear it in the way they ask questions and such.

We were going to go eat for my B-day on Sunday as a family and she even asked if we could go to a furniture store close to there so she can look at furniture for her new apt!!!

Another one..how should I handle this? She doesn't want the kids around when she moves some stuff out. I can understand this but I feel like I am enabling her if I comply with her.

Man some days are so long. I haven't slept good for months.
Posted By: Coach Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 01:58 PM
Do not talk to her about moving out, you won't change her mind.

Quote:
We were going to go eat for my B-day on Sunday as a family and she even asked if we could go to a furniture store close to there so she can look at furniture for her new apt!!!



"I have decided that the kids and I won't go look at furniture." That simple. If she asks why just say, "that's what I have decided." In control, confident and no escalating.

Take the kids out while she moves. Let her be in the house all alone. You go be a great Dad.

Why do think you are giving up?
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 02:13 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
I have been reading posts forever now...I would love to get some feedback from some of the "experts" on here such as Puppy, Coach, Sandi, etc.

I really want my family back and if she moves out, I'm afraid any chance of that will go along with her.


Hi wanttobebetter,

This is not neccessarily true.

My W moved out 2 weeks ago, had a full year lease and refurnished an entire house. We barely spoke for the past 2 weeks. Last night, she told me she would like to go back to MC. Listen to Coach and others about detaching and letting her go. It can work.

Wishing you the best.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 02:19 PM
I have read probably a million posts and have to come really respect what everyone says, especially Coach. If he told me to jump off a cliff to save my marriage, I probably would.

I feel like I am giving up because I am letting her go. I know this isn't true..logic tells me so. But the feelings are different.

I am staying in our house because that is what is best for the kids. It will be a little tight financially but it is best for the kids. I feel a lot of honor in the fact that I am doing what is best for my kids in this. I really do care more about them than anything else. I really do believe I have learned a lot about myself lately. It is amazing what you can get used to and deal with if you have to.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 02:20 PM
Tristan - I am happy things looks to be working out for you. I wish you the best in the future. This gives me some hope but I am preparing for the worst.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 02:22 PM
Another thing - I don't know if she is having a PA but there is very little doubt in my mind there is someone behind the curtain pulling her strings. If this person(s) were not in the picture, I feel like things would have a better chance. Someone is telling her it will be ok. Her parents are furious with her which I have to come to figure out is counter productive.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 02:23 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
This gives me some hope but I am preparing for the worst.


I think that is the right attitude.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 03:13 PM
Thanks. I'm trying to keep it up. This is probably the most emotional time period of my life.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 04:37 PM
Her ex husband is not happy with her either. She is taking their D9, my SD, out of a good stable home by all her friends into a little apt 20 miles away. I have become pretty good friends with him over the years. I feel for the D9.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 06:46 PM
I think there is a lot truth to the saying "you only want what you can't have". I really do want her back, but it makes when it is so 1 sided.

She is so head strong...I really didn't think we would get this far, that her armor would crack before now.
Posted By: Thinker Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 08:14 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter

Another one..how should I handle this? She doesn't want the kids around when she moves some stuff out. I can understand this but I feel like I am enabling her if I comply with her.


This isn't enabling. This is being a good dad and protecting your kids.

This is going to be traumatic for them, so take them out and go do something special and fun while your W moves out so that they don't have to be there watching her pack.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 08:25 PM
I just looked up the apt complex she is moving to. Looks nice but is set up like 21+ party central. I shouldn't have even checked it out but my kids will be staying there when they are with her. My day just went from somewhat ok to how in the hell am I ever going to let go? I'm going to have an anxiety attack.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 09:00 PM
Someone tell me it is going to be ok....

I feel like the life I have lived up to 6 months ago is going to the toilet. I really love my family frown
Posted By: tryingtilDorR Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 09:12 PM
I wish I could tell you that it will be OK. I know your definition of 'OK' is that everything gets back to normal and your W is suddenly happy again and the family stays together. I hope this happens for you, but there is a lot of transition that will need to happen between now and then most likely.

1) Your #1 priority is your children right now - you have to be there for them during this confusing time in their life.
2) Don't cling to your W - let her know that leaving is her decision and that you won't stand in her way, but you won't enable her either.
3) GAL - start defining yourself in terms of yourself and what you value and not as the H of your W. Focus on yourself as much as you can after taking care of (1) and (2). This is the hardest thing and the most unnatural act we have to perform, but after a while you start seeing/feeling the benefits and it gets easier. Also, as part of this process, try to recognize what your contributions to a bad M might have been so you can work on that just in case she decides to R.

As far as #3 is concerned, I look it like metamorphasis of the LBS. We need to go through a transformation like caterpillar to butterfly. Think of yourself as a caterpillar and you are about to go into the transformation stage. At the end of the process, we look back on the person we were at the beginning and realize that we have changed a lot for the better. If the W still chooses to not be with us and to traumatize the family in the process then it is their loss.

<sorry for the hokey analogy, but it kind of feels like that - I am not all the way through myself>
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/21/09 09:28 PM
I am going to talk to her Mom now. She has been wanting to talk to me but has not intiated contact. I know it is not going to do any good but I need some peace and to get to the start of some closure.

Please pray for me. I am a strong man 99% of the time but right now I feel like I have no skin on my body.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 02:19 AM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Someone tell me it is going to be ok....


It will be OK. I too felt like you, everything down to contemplating suicide. Yesterday, 2 weeks into the seperation, I told my sister that it was as bad as I imagined it would be. It still sucks, but it really isn't as bad as I imagined it.

I have 2 pieces of advice:
1. Enjoy the kids when you have them.
2. Enjoy GAL'ing when you don't.

And if you get real lucky, you can do 1 & 2 at the same time smile
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 01:20 PM
The panic's going to come and go.

It's completely normal. You have to try to keep yourself busy. Remind yourself that this is going to take a while.
Read, run, get a project, work on a hobby, hang out with friends, do yard work. Something. Keep yourself busy at these times.

Change your frame of mind. Even though your W may appear to be strong and in charge, she'sobviously going through something horrible. She's not "herself" right now. Deep inside she's hurting and unhappy. Otherwise, she wouldn't be willing to give up everything she has including splitting up her family.

Think of it like this. "I love her enough to give her the time to work through this." Also realize that you need to take the time to address your own issues.

Want to see the panic of someone who threw it away when they were in a fog then came out of it? Here's a new thread.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD

The point is that people can come out of this fog. If you notice though her H didn't beg, plead, explain or any of it. Now she wants him back.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 02:34 PM
EB I read that thread. I did some backsliding this morning but I don't think it was too much damage. Told her how I felt about her moving out and that I would like her to really think about things (she is supposed to sign the lease papers today). She mentioned all the changes I have been making but following the script, indicated she didn't know if they were temporary or the "new me". I told her I was doing it for myself. She said you are hanging out with your friends, you are joining the PTO, etc...Why? I said for me.

It is so weird. It is almost like I can sometimes see the cracks in her shell but she will cover them back up by saying something like "You need to move on" But something will slide out like "let's just see how this separation works".

No more R talk from me. I'm on the high road now. I got out what I was wanting to say this morning and I made it clear to her the decisions she was making were hers and hers alone. She is going to have to live with them and see them everyday our kids are going to want to come back to "their house".
Posted By: JayMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 02:45 PM
You should print out your post, and stick it on your mirror - somewhere where you will see it every day.

Quote:
No more R talk from me. I'm on the high road now. I got out what I was wanting to say this morning and I made it clear to her the decisions she was making were hers and hers alone.


I wish I had a dollar for every time I said this and went back on it - I sincerely believe my family would be together. No use dwelling in the past for me, but I hope that I can help you avoid the same mistake.

When my W moved out, it was all smiles and gumdrops for about 4 months. She had snuck and taken money on the side, and she was living the high life for awhile - then bills started coming in, and she realized that she was completely responsible for everything, including screwups, and all of a sudden the wonderful party/single life wasn't so wonderful.

She was with OM - and that was all grand and glorious, and he was "amazing". Then he started bringing his 3 kids over, and they wrote on her walls, and the thought of raising FIVE kids all of a sudden started ending that honeymoon.

Even after a year in an apartment, and being with OM, and pushing him down our kids' throats, yesterday D9 told her that she wanted us to get back together.

My point is this: I can go back over probably 50 situations, and the ones that worked in my "favor" were the ones where I simply stepped back, and let go. Learn from my mistakes...

I would even recommend that you go a step further, and start pulling back on unnecessary communication if you haven't already. I make sure I have the kids' schedule, and I communicate necessary information like sickness and what not, but NOTHING other than that.

I know where you are - I remember it felt like someone was peeling my skin off to watch the woman I loved leave. But now is the time to hang tough!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 02:49 PM
Jon - Thanks for the post. Great advice. I will be pulling back as I think I got some closure this morning when she told me she was signing her lease no matter what. I know from experience I am not going to be able to change her mind so I need to show her how I am taking the high road, being a great parent and letting her truly be on her own like she wants.

I am at the point where this experience is going to make me better, not worse.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 03:36 PM
This is going to be such a long hard road. The swing of emotions is unbelieveable. I know many others have been through it but until you experience it you have no idea.

There is just too much crap that reminds me of all the good times we used to have.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 03:39 PM
Jon - How do I detach to that point? I mean I know how but I want to be there for her as well. It seems like others have success when they are there for their WAS's when their world finally comes crashing down?

I think there is a fine line.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 04:11 PM
11:00 came and went. That was when she had her appt to sign her lease papers. In the back of my mind I was praying I would get a phone call saying - let's talk about this.

Now I pray for the future.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 04:28 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
until you experience it you have no idea.


Truer words have never been spoken.

Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter

There is just too much crap that reminds me of all the good times we used to have.


Yep. Odds are that you will get to a point where you will only remember the bad times and be really angry with her. Then back again...sometimes within minutes. Knowing what to expect and remembering that these feelings won't last forever may help.

Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
11:00 came and went. That was when she had her appt to sign her lease papers. In the back of my mind I was praying I would get a phone call saying - let's talk about this.

Now I pray for the future.


Sorry Man. Keep praying for the future. I added your family to my prayer list yesterday.
Posted By: JayMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 04:33 PM
It is a fine line - in my case, there is an OM involved, and I set a very clear boundary. I will honor my vows - I don't date, I don't be with other women, I am not antagonistic to W, I support her as a parent. I don't allow the kids to be disrespectful.

I find ways that are appropriate. Whenever I cut off the communication, she always starts pursuing me. I mean, at one time, it got to the point where we were having dinner, going to the pool, spending 4-5 days a week together as a family - and she saw me 3x as much as OM. However, the affair was still there, and she couldn't quite let that slide, and it was so hard, but I had to establish that. I can not operate as a husband when my wife is seeing another man - even though she insists that it is not a PA, they spend the weekend together, and I just have to call bullcrap.

I'll give you an example - her tires were bald, I mean no tread at all. My kids ride in that car, and she called me about it, so I took the time to find a couple of places that were reputable and cost-effective. I didn't change the tires for her, but gave suggestions, and hung up. That's appropriate to be a decent human being.

There are other times where she calls and starts talking about how hard school is, and she's so busy, and has no money, and I listen for a minute, and offer sympathy, then I find a reason to hang up. As I like to say, she lost husband and friend privileges when she chose someone else.

Her world has crashed down around her - the honeymoon is over with the OM, and she is losing her kids. I will be there for her - I am her husband - HOWEVER, it'll be when she decides to be a wife to me and a mother to her kids. Until then, she is treated as an acquaintance. I'm not a jerk - she hurt her back really bad a few weeks back, and I watched the kids for her, and offered to pick up her prescription. However, I had one of the kids run it up. I inquired as to her health once or twice, but when she wanted to have a long conversation I cut it off.

I don't know - some on here do recommend being a good buddy, but I don't see any successes. Again, I do not recommend being a jerk, just like you would treat like your third cousin! smile
Posted By: Startingover2 Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 06:05 PM
I really like that. There is a fine line between being civil for the kids and their buddy...They lost their buddy card when they chose to leave the M.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 06:32 PM
Jon - great advice. Appreciate your thoughts and advice. I hope I never have to deal with OM.

Lost the buddy card...I'll be using that one.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/22/09 09:14 PM
I do dread next week. The build up of her actually moving over a couple of evenings is going to be tough. I am looking forward to being able to sit in my house and breathe a sigh of relief when that is over.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 01:51 PM
Well she bought her furniture last night and is still full steam ahead.

I really don't want to drag this out and feel I am at that point. Since she has already given me the money for her half of an UC divorce, I think I am going to go ahead and just get the process started. I feel like I cannot allow her to do what she is doing and be the man/father I need to be. I feel like I need to see the boundary of her leaving as the one that once she crosses, there is no coming back.

If anyone has any advice on this, would LOVE to hear it.
Posted By: JayMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 02:03 PM
You can start the process - it is not a quick one. Even with an uncontested divorce, I'm guessing the minimum if it absolutely flies through would be 2 months, but it varies.

Just make sure that your boundaries are for you, and not like "I'll show HER." Review your statements like "I cannot allow her to do what she is doing."

You can't stop her from doing anything. Tell me what your reaction will be, not what you'll do to stop her?

For example, my W was incredibly disrespectful to me - and I laid down the law. Obviously, by choosing divorce, she has chosen to give up 50% of her children's lives. Her choice. I still send her pictures of our outings because she misses everything, and pass on anecdotes occasionally. Probably stupid, but I want her to be involved in the kids' lives. I simply told her that if she was ever disrespectful to me again, I would cut her off from every experience. I explained that I could not and would not control what she says, but I was establishing a boundary, and it was her choice to accept the consequences if she chose to cross it. So then, I establish what I will tolerate, but I leave the choice entirely in her hands.

It is a fine line - because when you try to say that they can't do something, it is perceived as an attempt to control - whether you mean it or not.

Start the process. She will have a few glorious months of being free and ready for anything, and on top of the world. It's exciting to feel like you're escaping your problems, but I guarantee it won't last long. What is important at this point is for you to detach, and start building your own new life. The worst case is that you become healthy and happy, the best case is that she realizes she's an idiot, and wants to move back in.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 02:10 PM
I agree with everything you are saying. I can tell already she is worried about money and other things that I always took care she is going to have to do. I have to allow her that experience.

I think I have to do like you said...worst case and best case. I think once I get going on my own even if she did come back, she would really have to make some changes...I would not want to put myself and my family through this again.
Posted By: Startingover2 Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 04:31 PM
Agreed with Jon. Let her go out and eventually things will catch up with her. I briefly skimmed through your thread, but is there an OM?

My new motto is put that smile and happiness on your face. She will wonder what the heck you are doing. She thinks she can snap her fingers and you will take her back. Give her something to think about.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 04:38 PM
I sent her an email this morning defining my boundaries of the house that she is leaving and my plans for the weekend in dealing with our kids. I also let her know I plan on meeting the attorney and filing. I also told her she was being selfish with the comments about the kids will be fine.

That prompted a phone call...actually 3 because I would not answer. She tried to bait me into an argument and I did not let her. She said if I wanted her to fake it for the kids she would. I told her I did not want her to be unhappy and that I wished her well. She said she needs to move out so she can relax. I have no idea how she thinks moving with 3 kids into a 3 BR apt is relaxing but I know I cannot tell her that.

She wants to talk tonight - mainly about what she is taking from the house. I think she is still on the fence about separation vs divorce but I told her I needed to move forward in the proces for me. I also told her once she got out there on her own that to not come crying to me with problems. She fully understands this is her decision but I don't think she is ready to deal with it. I feel lost but somewhat strong. I don't let her bully me anymore like I got used to.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 04:40 PM
I am sure there are OM's out there swarming around her. She is attractive and gets the attention and I know she has talked to some of them. She said she may go on some dates and told me to date as well. So I will. I am not going to allow her to make those types of threats.

I don't have any real good proof other than catching her in lies but I'm sure someone is helping pull her strings along. Bad thing is my kids are caught up in it.

She said she didn't even care if we got divorced. She'll never get married again! (this is 2X for her)
Posted By: Startingover2 Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 04:57 PM
I wouldn't date yet...but make her wonder if you are by being vague. It just messes with your head when you date too soon. I am 14 months since separation and I am just now starting to feel like I want to move on with my life....getting there is the problem.

She is probably on the fence because you opened the cage door and are releasing her. If you haven't read "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson...get it! It talks about opening the cage door and releasing the ws and they all of a sudden don't like it and sometimes rethink. Seriously, its a good read.

Good luck with your meeting tonight!
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 05:40 PM
My sitch is at the same spot. I'm picking up the "Love Must be Tough" book today. Thanks Starting...
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/23/09 06:44 PM
I will pick it up tonight. I know it isn't smart to date yet....I need time alone to pick up the pieces that fall. I want to come out of this better and I think getting involved right away is not the way to do it. Plus I have my kids and my focus is going to be on them right now.

I have no idea what tonight will bring but she is going to get me to argue with her and I'm not doing that. I will let her calmly state what it is she wants to take with her and I'll be taking the high road.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 12:01 PM
I went to Borders and a Barnes & Noble. Neither had it in stock.

Looks like I'll need to order from Amazon.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 02:31 PM
Well we talked some last night. Got a little more into the R talk that I really wanted but I stayed in control for the most part. I heard some of the same stuff....that I deserve better than her, she feels like she is going to have a mental break down if she stays (this is going to happen no matter what), and that it is too late.

She has taken notice of all the positive changes I have made, how I have my confidence back and that I'm not as insecure as I used to be. She notices them but is afraid to acknowledge them. She is having a real tough time with everything and inside I feel sorry for her. I have really detached but I still really love her. I can't imagine her not being in our house.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 03:30 PM
deserve better than her - check
she feels like she is going to have a mental break down if she stays - heard that
it is too late - uh huh
She has taken notice of all the positive changes I have made - been there

All part of the script.

Let it play itself out. Good job staying detached.

Believe it or not, she CAN get past this. Look for stuff that Orich used to post, check Tristan's situation. Have you read what's going on with Dia? All of these guys heard the same thing. All have gotten past it or are well on their way.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 03:31 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
I still really love her. I can't imagine her not being in our house.


I feel your pain buddy. We have a big house that will be REALLY empty when I get home from work soon. Even my dog will be gone!

My W still seems to be under the impression that whe will come back at some point though. No promises though.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 06:46 PM
Mine hasn't really said she will ever come back. I was outside mowing with the kids last night and she was sitting on the steps watching us - just like old times. I can't help but see the wheels turning in her head. I have never, ever met someone who can bury their emotions like her but run herself on emotions.

The hard part for me is walking the fine line when she moves out. I want to be my old person but at the same time be able to let her know I would like to be married to her. This will take some time to figure out and perfect.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 06:48 PM
I feel like she can get past it. She recognizes there is an issue....we talked about getting her counseling last night but she said she just doesn't have the time right now. I told her if her arm was broken you would get it looked at right? Same thing with your head! I put it a little more softly than that!

She cried and I really wish there was a way for me to help her but I know there isn't. She has to figure that out on her own. I wish I had figured that out months ago.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 06:57 PM
You're right. She has to figure this out on her own.

Just be there for her if she comes to you.

They just seem to hate when we try to help. They see it as "fixing."

It is weird when it feels like old times. I've had the same experience mowing the lawn or playing catch with S. Look over and see wife watching. Smiling. I have to fight asking her why she wants to miss out on this. Can't say a word though.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/24/09 09:06 PM
I figure you and I are just about on the same page.

I was supposed to be home today to get the kids but she called and offered to leave work early so I could get more done. I see a lot of baby steps but she is still dead set on moving out. She mentioned packing this weekend then will just drift into another subject like we are talking about the weather. I just ignore it but it eats at my insides.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 01:25 AM
I get it. My W put an offer on a place yesterday. Today she doesn't even mention it. She just says "we need milk & coffee filters if you go to the store."

huh? we're going to play like all is OK?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 04:08 AM
Oh man you have got to be kidding me. I went to a divorce support group meeting tonight. I did it for myself. It was actually a great experience and so glad I went. I really stepped out of my comfort zone but it was great.

Anyways, while I was there she texted me and asked if I cared about stopping at the store because we needed qtips and dishwasher detergent!!

Tell me what happens next??
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 12:15 PM
Here's what happens next...

You have conversations in your head. You play your role and hers. Here's how it goes.

You: Seriously? Q-Tips and Soap? You're freaking leaving me, destroying our family, breaking my heart, and tearing our wedding vows to shreds and you want me to pick up Q-Tips and Dish Soap!?

Her: Fine, I'll go to the store myself and get them myself then if it's too much trouble for you.

You: No you're completely missing the point here. You don't assult a man, treat him like he's a piece of trash, and then say "hey pal, how are ya. Can you stop by the store for me?"
What the hell? How do you turn it on and off like this?

Her: I'm not going to get into this with you again. This is why I am leaving. I hate.....blah, blah, blah.


Then you realize it's a no win situation. She's just so fogged up right now and that her emotional ping pong ball really is just bouncing all over the place. So you stop, don't have the above conversation take place outloud,go get the Q-Tips, laugh at how rediculous the situation is, take them home, and have no expectation for a thank you.

Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 02:20 PM
And that is what I did. Stopped and got them and brought them home. Realized she didn't look close enough and we already had a new box of dishwasher deterget. I told her "Hey we have one back here". She said "I must not have looked close enough...I"ll just take one with me". Ha ha, so funny you cold hearted b****.

My 5 year D is learning how to spell and she goes around and writes MOM and DAD on everything now. It just tears me up to see that and the pain that they are going to be subject to for really nothing other than my wife can't get her head on straight and face life for what it is.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 02:27 PM
Ouch.

The coldness comes and goes at my house. The concept of leaving doesn't really change though.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 02:30 PM
My Bday is coming up this Sunday and at one time we were all going to do something together. Since she has been having such a negative projection lately, I told her I would take the kids to my sister's as she wanted to have a B-day party for me.

It will be interesting to see, if anything, she does for me on Sunday. It doesn't matter one way or the other but I am anxious to see.

A part of me is ready for her to go...a part of me will be very said when she does.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 02:38 PM
We've been through both of our B'days and our 10 year anniversary during this. SUCKS!!!

As for the mixed feelings on her going, I'm right with you. She won't be able to miss you until after she's gone though. It may take a few months. Just make sure that her impression of you from now until then is of someone worth missing.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 03:07 PM
Got that. I need the time for my own self improvement anyways. She has already seen the positive changes I have made. The trick is showing her these changes stick. I like them for myself so who cares anyways? There are times when I feel so good...but then there are times when I get dragged down. I know time will even it out.

She is supposed to pack this weekend so it should be interesting to say the least!!!!
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 03:30 PM
Are you going somewhere or are you going to sit there through it?

I'm not sure how I'm going to work this with my W. I have a feeling she is going to transition little by little instead of make a clean break.
Posted By: Coach Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 03:42 PM
Quote:
I'm not sure how I'm going to work this with my W. I have a feeling she is going to transition little by little instead of make a clean break.


"I know this is hard on all of us. But I have decided that it's best if you move out in one move instead of dragging things out."
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 04:07 PM
Honestly I don't care if she moves out little by little.

What I meant by not knowing how I'll handle it is more of the do I sit in the other room while she packs and hauls her stuff away or will I just make sure to be somewhere else that day.

I'm leaning on being someshere else.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/25/09 04:39 PM
Well I don't know. I'm a little hesitant on giving her free rein on the household items but I really do not want to be there for it. It will SUCK when I come back home and be able to see the gaps of where stuff was. This is going to be a big transition period.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/26/09 07:38 PM
I went out last night and had a good times with friends and did not get home until 11am. She knew I wasn't coming home but I usually get a text or something...nothing. Not a big deal but it seems like she is detached!!!

Got home and she is getting boxes together as well as figuring other stuff out. Can't believe she is going to give it all up to live in an apt. She doesn't want the house, my retirement, she gave me 50/50 custody of the kids and we agreed on a child support #. She is going to be living in a 3 bd room apt, be divorced twice with 3 kids with 2 different dad - all at 30 years old.

Can someone tell me why I would take her back?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/27/09 01:42 PM
Today is my B-day. She had something to do last night so I had the kids and we all had a good time. They always want to sleep with me so us 3 crawled into bed together. When the W got home she had to sleep in one of the kids beds. This morning she crawled into bed with me and wanted to snuggle up. This happened a couple of times as one of us would have to get up and help the kids do something.

One of those times she jokingly told me she hated me and was laughing.

I took the affection, but didn't show how bad I did want it and needed it. I can never guess what this woman is going to say or do next!!!
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: How did I get here? - 09/27/09 01:52 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Today is my B-day. She had something to do last night so I had the kids and we all had a good time. They always want to sleep with me so us 3 crawled into bed together. When the W got home she had to sleep in one of the kids beds. This morning she crawled into bed with me and wanted to snuggle up. This happened a couple of times as one of us would have to get up and help the kids do something.

One of those times she jokingly told me she hated me and was laughing.

I took the affection, but didn't show how bad I did want it and needed it. I can never guess what this woman is going to say or do next!!!


Happy birthday! Hope you have a good one despite the mess.

Keep working on detaching. Was good you didn;t show how badly you needed her attention. Keep being strong. One suggestion - stop worrying about and concerning yourself with what she thinks She probably doesn't even know, so how are you supposed to figure it out?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/27/09 08:44 PM
I took my kids to my parent today and she sent me a text message saying happy bday and then it just said "sorry". I said sorry for what and she said because our family isn't together today. I wrote back that was her call and maybe this is for the best.

I think that is good detaching and I really meant it. Wish she would just being emotionally blind. I can see cracks in the armor...
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/27/09 11:18 PM
HAPPY BIRTHDAY!

Don't you wish you know what was going through her head? I am well aware that mind reading doesn't help, but it's so odd to me how they can love on you one minute and hate you the next.

I've read a little about 'approach-avoidance conflict'. It helped to understand it some.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 01:48 PM
Thank you everyone for the Bday wishes.

Last night we went out as a family to dinner. My sister was supposed to have a b-day get together for me but she was really sick today. When my W found out I didn't end up having a cake she went and bought one for me to have last night. We all ate together and had a good night.

I had bought pumpkins and some Halloween decorations for the kids and put that up when I got home. It looks really good and I know the W sees that. We slept in the same bed last night. I had washed the sheets and everything that morning.

Being honest....I'm trying to show her what all she is going to be missing...our nice big, clean bed, having a house to put decorations out in (can't do that at her apt) and how much fan I was having getting it all set up with the kids. She didn't say a whole lot last night but that is when she is busy thinking. She is supposed to get her apt key on Wednesday. Part of me will hurt if and when she picks that up but I will hold it together and hope for the best long term.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 01:55 PM
That's good that she's thinking about what she's doing. It means she's not running purely on fogged up emotion.

She slept in your bed and bought you a B'day cake. All good signs.

If I were you (and sometimes it seems like I am) I would be prepared to see her go. Even with all of the good signs she may need to move out and lose what she has before she can really see what she had to lose.

You've done a good job of providing her with a life full of things that are worth missing. She just needs to get to a point where she can see that.

Prepare yourself for her to go. If she decides not to, it's a bonus. It seems like she's too committed to it to back out at this point. If for nothing else, she'd probably do it on principle alone.

Look at it like going for now instead of going forever.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 02:01 PM
You are exactly right...she would do it on principle - I prefer to call it being hardheaded with her. She has always been like that.

I appreciate your comment - I have given her a million things that are worth missing. I've really made a lot of good, positive changes that I know she sees. They have been great for my mental health.

I am prepared to see her go. It will be tough but I am ready to face that. I think long term this is the only way for her to really see the outcome. If she decided to stay, it would be a bonus; however, she would not get to see that the grass over there is actually brown.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 02:16 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
If she decided to stay, it would be a bonus; however, she would not get to see that the grass over there is actually brown.


This is freaking great!

Both my W and your are going to have to go check this out for themselves before they can see it.

Have you seen Tristan's thread? His W came back and said something to the effect of "I thought once I got our I thought I would blossom like a butterfly," but just ended up mising her family instead.

I'm not saying that my W or yours is guaranteed to come back, but I think that they are both stubborn enough to feel the need to check out the grass "over there" before they believe that it's not greener.

Too bad it's going to bankrupt me in the process.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 04:59 PM
Originally Posted By: Energizer Bunny
Have you seen Tristan's thread? His W came back and said something to the effect of "I thought once I got our I thought I would blossom like a butterfly," but just ended up mising her family instead.


I will admit my sitch is turning out to be a "best case scenario". I am following both of you and wishing you the best. I think the best advice I received from Robx, Coach, and others was to keep communication to a minimal (about kids only) and to keep it "matter of fact" (business like). Puppy pointed out that she probably missed our friendship as much as anything else. Good luck.

Originally Posted By: Energizer Bunny

Too bad it's going to bankrupt me in the process.



I've thought about this myself. But I just need to keep reminding myself what I was willing to pay to keep my family together at the beginning of this whole thing.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 05:31 PM
Yeah the money will be an issue. I have my end set up where I will be fine either way. It would easy to think of it as money thrown away but if it brings it all back together the cost isn't an issue.

Her Mom emailed me this morning telling me Happy B-day and that my W was by there yesterday and said things and acted like she hasn't for a very long time. She said to keep praying and is holding her breath. I don't know what to take from all of that and don't want to get the hopes up...just keep doing what I am doing.

Either way I am hoping for the best for you and EB.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 06:02 PM
[quote=tristan I think the best advice I received from Robx, Coach, and others was to keep communication to a minimal (about kids only) and to keep it "matter of fact" (business like). [/quote]

I've been through barely talking, regular communication then back again. I think it will be a lot easier to limit communication when we aren't living in the same house. Living together seems to make it harder to communicate minimally. Afterall, we still eat at the same table and watch the same TV. For a few months she had pretty much locked herself in "her" room.

Once she's out I am sure it will be dramatically different.
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 09:13 PM
Hey, wanttobebetter. My sitch is very much like yourse, so I can definately relate to your sitch.

I have to agree with what others are saying here; that the wife moving out can be a blessing. In a way, it gives the W time to miss you and see that maybe the grass is not greener. BUT it takes a LONG time. I pretty sure that if given enough time, my marriage would have worked out, but in my state it only takes two months from when the D is files to when it's final.

There's a lot of things a WAW and LBS may not realize until she
moves out.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 09:55 PM
Yep, gotta let her go. Don't want to but there is no way I can control anything that happens anymore except myself.

She is adamant about moving out when only yesterday I thought I felt the winds of change blowing. I'm telling you...when she is home for a few days like over the weekend, things get better. Yesterday she talked to her Mom and her Mom told me this morning she really thought my W was coming around. But then as soon as she gets back to work I can always expect some kind of power move from her on Monday. A few weeks ago is was get the attorney hired...today it was can you help me with the kids this week because I need to pack my stuff....

Had a little backslide today....I was pissed about this week and maybe I had my hopes up a little over the weekend. I said she should stand and fight with me for our marriage and to quit running away from emotions (she has done this all of her life). She told me it was going to happen regardless. Then she told me not to do this to her right now.

She is a beehive of emotions so I'm just going to stay away from it. I guess she is moving this week after all.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 10:26 PM
It's hard not to get your hopes up. I can't lame you for backsliding every once in a while. Just to bbetter in the future. You're human.

Be the guy that she'll miss when she's not with you every day. I think it was givingmyall that said be the guy that only a fool would leave.

Either she will see it or someone else will. In the end you'll be a better guy for it.
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/28/09 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter

She is a beehive of emotions so I'm just going to stay away from it. I guess she is moving this week after all.


I like to say, "bull in a china shop."

Drop the rope. Let her go. She knows how you feel. Make sure you stick with 180's and GAL's and get some space to breathe. Take the power back!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 12:45 AM
We just had a talk. She said she is scared to death....is worried but said she has to do this for herself. She said "I am a damn good man" and knows she is foolish for leaving. She knows there is a chance nothing will work out for her. But she said she still has to move and has to do this.

I am actually ok with it. I can't have her around like this....but she is a mess. She said she is actually going to talk to a C.

What the hell do I do now? I listened and told her I understood....she is just a conflict away from...I don't know what.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 01:02 AM
Word for word...that's my wife!

Give her time. Love her enough to let her go. It still doesn't mean forever. Sounds like a little MLC stuff to me.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 01:33 AM
MLC is right. She is so messed up with conflict within herself. She can't find herself she said and is willing to risk it all. She had a lease on one apt then changed it yesterday to another. She can't even figure out where to live!!!!

I decorated the house yesterday with the kids. She made mention of it today saying there were years where she couldn't get me into the mood to do it now I do it on my own. I realize that my GAL's are working, but it makes me realize I should have been doing that all along.

The only thing that sucks on this new place is she will have to sign a year lease. It is closer and would be more convenient but there is no chance I can be separated for that long and have much hope of working things out.

Honestly, I know this is tougher on her than it is me...
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 02:12 AM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter

The only thing that sucks on this new place is she will have to sign a year lease.


Don't let this bother you too much. My W signd a year lease and was asking "If I could forgive her less than a month later." Work on GAL'ing; the rest can be worked out when the R is better.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 01:12 PM
Oh I have the GAL thing going on...enough to where she is noticing it.

We had a long talk last night. She said she knows she has issues she needs to work through. I know she wants to stay...but she gets headed in a direction and cannot turn around. She will even tell you this. She said she will talk to a C...she has a history of running from problems and not facing them. I just wish I could be there for her.

I don't know if this is fair or not...but I feel I have the upper hand right now. I know I will be fine one way or the other...I know she is seriously conflicted on what to do and her life is about to get 10X harder.

I told her when we went to bed last night (there was some physical affection - not that much!), I told her I would always be there to talk to her and would not drag it into R talk. She said she appreciated that.

I told her before I left for work this morning to have a positive day today (she gets wrapped up in negative thoughts) and that if things would ever work out for us that I would not hurt her. What I was trying to get across was that if she opened up to me and put herself out there, I wouldn't be there to hurt her.

May not be all technically correct things to say or do, but it felt good and it felt right.

Thanks Tristan and EB for keeping tabs.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 01:21 PM
She also said she is afraid of what a C is going to tell her and want to talk about it. She is full aware she has demons....I can't fathom why she would rather run away than fight them and keep her family???
Posted By: JayMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 01:48 PM
This is pretty normal, wtbb. If the blame and responsibility can be shifted to you, it allows for an eased conscience.

It won't last. My WAW literally said, "I won't go to marriage counseling because I don't want someone to change my mind." She even refused to attend our childrens' counseling, even though I gave her an open invitation.

Understand that there is a huge amount of emotional pressure - the WAS builds their reality and justification around you being the bad guy/girl, and that crumbles when they have to look inward.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 02:08 PM
It is a little bit opposite...she says she is to blame. I mean we both are at fault but she is taking the brunt of it. Said she knows how good she has it and she is a fool for leaving but doesn't know what else to do. She really will tell you she is messed up in the head. This is from a woman who if you met her you would not be able to tell. It's kind of scary! I know my real W is somewhere in there. I really love her but there is nothing more I can do but be patient and be there when and if shoe does come around. At that point, I may have already moved on. We both know this and she is still willing to leave.

What a mess...
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 02:37 PM
Yes. My W said a lot of things that did not make much logical sense. One day it was all my fault, the next it was her who was a piece of s___ . It looks we are getting a lot of it sorted out right now, but it is going to take time.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 02:42 PM
Ditto. It's me..it's you... Then it's me again.

I can't offer much insight, but I can relate.
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 02:49 PM
Yep, all part of the 'roller-coaster.' I just accepted responsibility for what I did or didn't do and left it at that. Then becasue I admitted my mistakes and was working to fix the issues, she lost a lot of her 'blame' ability and had to look at the woman in the morror. Eventually, as her false world lost it's clearity, she sunk into an even deeper fog.

Then she got help, finally.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 04:36 PM
Well at least I am in good company. I've accepted my end of the responsibility...even though she tells me I don't have to. She says she is to blame.

I just want to get off of the roller coaster. Right now I am fighting the battle off whether or not she is really going to move out or not. Once that is done (and I think she will), then I can work on moving on. Right now I feel a little bit of hope because she isn't gone yet.

She admits she is just pushing herself to move because she doesn't have any better ideas and she has already told herself she was going too. If she didn't it would be like giving up in her head.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 04:44 PM
My W texted the movers (kids she hired) at 12:30AM the morning of the move saying she had decided not to move. They never got the text and came over in the morning. And "since they showed up", she decided to move. Sometimes you just need to shake your head and laugh. Just don't do it in front of W.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 05:16 PM
I never realized how crazy some of this can be. Makes me really appreciate the good times that we did have. I'm torn on her moving out.
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 09:05 PM
You can love the person the she was and smile. I still love thast woman I married 7 years ago. She was a wonderful wife and companion. But the reality is that she doesn't exist anymore. The memories we had, I still consider a gift and will always cherish.

The thing is that people change over the years and a marriage must change with it.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/29/09 10:12 PM
Tonight I stopped and bought food to make a dinner tonight....a special one. I don't expect anything in return. She said I was setting myself up for disappointment. I didn't let her see that her saying that hurt. I really want to go throw it all in the garbage but i'm going to make it with a smile.

She said she is still signing her lease tomorrow. This would be so much easier if we didn't the greatest kids....
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 01:06 AM
Well she's packing stuff while I am typing this.....guess she is going through with this and its really over frown

Found out she moving into a 2 BR apt with 3 kids. She must really want out of here.
Posted By: JayMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 01:39 AM
This is a rough time - I remember.

However, I recall that after W moved out, she eventually started hanging out, and we got to the point where we were spending 7-8 hours in a day as a family, and were together probably 5-6 days a week.

Unfortunately, she has severe emotional issues, but in a normal scenario, it would have been at the minimum a great friendship, and the best case, a reconciliation...

Keep your chin up. Stand firm on this separation, it is not all it'll be cracked up to be, and the temptation is to extend helpful hands as a way of "being the nice guy", but don't forget she is giving up "husband privileges".
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 01:39 AM
I'm praying for you. The first few days are very, very, very hard. Keep on the boards and keep track of positives. The negatives lurk around every corner.
Posted By: NoLongerHere Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 01:58 AM
It's not over 'till its over. Continue to take care of yourself. You will get through it.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 02:11 AM
Thanks guys. Wish you were here so I could buy a round for you guys.

Mine has emotional issues....she is just starting to realize it and I hope they don't take her over before she gets help.

I will stand tall on this separation. I prefer to call it that....she will say we are just doing this until we get divorced but I know not to believe everything she says.

Her head is empty and she is running on emotion right now.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 02:13 AM
It gets better....I will see her almost every day. Our youngest D is too young to get on the bus by herself so the W will bring the SD by my (our) house every morning because the W is moving outside of the school boundaries. Then she will have to pick up the SD every day and the D if it is her week. It is actually convenient for both of us.

I really have to find that line between helping her out and not enabling her because this was her decision. Pisses me off that the 3 kids are being shoved into a room together because she wants to "find herself".

I will be back here often...
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 02:18 PM
Hang in there my friend. My XW has mental/ emotional issues as well. The day she left, I remember her saying "it's my turn to be selfish." I felt that all the work I had done for the past year meant nothing to her. But now, all this time since, she sees that I had made the effort to change and it was good. In fact, becuase I had worked on myself and changed, she got the insiration to get help and goto therapy.

In a way, separation may provide the separation your wife needs to get a handle on things and see the situation more clearly. Perhaps even miss you. Stick with GALs!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 02:52 PM
I'm hanging but it is tough. The swings go so far back and forth. I'm hoping it is like a swing and it will eventually become still.

My kids are so, so great. Nothing will change that. But inside I'm really pissed at her for tearing the fabric of a good family apart because she can't "figure herself out". To be fair, I don't know exactly what she is feeling. But to take it out on us is what sucks.

I, for the life of me, cannot figure out how she can shove all of her emotions away. Everything I see or hear brings back some memory....hers is probably a negative perspective.

There is no doubt she is going to miss us being a family..I just don't know when it will be.

I love this site.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 03:31 PM
I could have written this post. Word for word.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 03:45 PM
Originally Posted By: Energizer Bunny
I could have written this post. Word for word.


ditto. I think my W always knew she would miss us as a family. She told me that she wanted to miss me. Sometimes I think she wanted to miss me to prove that we were still "real".

I think the emotional swings are just a part of life. We had them before we were married, before the bomb, after the bomb, and I am sure we will have them on into the future. It is probably best to just roll with them. When times are good, enjoy life. When times are bad, you can still enjoy life. Even when things were darkest, I have some very good memories.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 05:27 PM
My W mentioned that at one time too....she wanted to feel that she missed me. Of course, with everything else coming out of her mouth, I have no idea if she meant it or even remembers saying it.

Once she gets moved out, I am really going dark for a min of a month. Limit everything to a minimum and communicate only for the kids.

I don't know why she would want to do this to herself again (being divorced again, almost same circumstances).
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 05:34 PM
I've heard the "want to see if I miss you" thing too. (God, is there a manuel for being a WAW?)

From what I gathered, if she missed me it would help to show that we're "meant to be." Meant to be? By who I'm not sure. It seemed to make sense to her at the time.

Funny that you mention that she may more remember saying it. In conversations with my W on more than one occasion, W has said "I didn't do/say that" about things that she indeed has done or said. She's even made up things that I supposedly have said which never were uttered!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 05:48 PM
I think it is due from the logic vs emotional disconnect. Emotionally they have said it many times in their head but logically they haven't - or vice versa.

Adds fuel to the line "don't believe anything they say and only 1/2 of what they do".
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 06:35 PM
Energizer, I think there some post here somewhere about listing the WAW script. It's funny how many WAS say the same things. I told my XW one time that she was textbook....she got really pissed! I couldn't help but laugh but I sure got mine.

You know we should totally put together a WAS dictionary/ encylopedia. I know it's serious business, but a little humor in this situation can go a long way.

Wantobebetter: I think you definately got the right idea. Drop the rope, detach. Sometimes the reaction is immediately noticable. WAW's flip when they see things not going according the plans they hashed out long before. And you doing the right things and 'enjoying the new you' are not a part of these plans. Whn I 180'd, my XW lost it. She began trying to hurt me, but it just rolled off and I continued in my happy way. It hurt, but all she saw was a great happy go lucky, responsibile guy. Her behavior got worse, but it also seem to speed up the process and she hit bottom at a faster pace....which was a good thing.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 07:27 PM
My brother in law (maybe former) just called me. My W called him and asked him to help her move on Thursday. He was calling me to tell me he is only helping her because he has to more or less. He does not support or condone anything she is doing and said no one in her family does. He knows her from before her last divorce and cannot believe she is doing this again, now with 3 kids. Doesn't make me feel any better but it is good to hear someone thinks along my lines.

Like here on the boards, he said she was in a fog. He said he thinks the fog is created by her own head and someone else. He thinks someone else has to be in the picture somewhere. I know I cannot do anything about this at this point. She is moving out...what can I do?

He said he is really going to lay into her on tomorrow while helping her. I'm sure this won't help but he said she needs to grow up.

What a mess. I know she will wake up someday...just having the patience to get there sucks....if that day really ever comes.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 07:31 PM
That sucks.

Cool he made a point to call you though.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 08:44 PM
Yeah, well what do you do? It is what it is. I just did some backsliding, I'm not even going to say what it was, but it made me feel better. I'm sure I will regret it at one point or another, but I wanted stand up for myself and my family.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 09/30/09 11:31 PM
Got home...she is already getting some stuff moved out. This is surreal.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 02:06 AM
Dude. So sorry.

Surreal is the only word that I would use here too.

The whole thing is surreal.

That sucks.

How is she acting to you?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 01:31 PM
Well she didn't get home until 10 or so. Then she was mad at me because I moved my stuff out of dresser she was taking into a dresser that I was keeping. I took her stuff out of that dresser and put it into piles just like it came out of the drawers. This made sense to me but she was not happy about it.

This morning, as she was getting ready, she was putting stuff into duffel bags. This morning was it. When I left I told her I loved her and hated her. And I meant it. All she could say was that everything would be fine. No emotion....

This is a sad day for me and my family.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 01:38 PM
She's still running off of anger. Her emotions are probably like a scrambled egg.

My W has been the same way (w/o) emotion so many times. Last night, she was emotional again. They can't fight it forever.

Just like in Tristan's thread. Your W is the one in crisis mode in this case though. And just like us...eventually crisis mode will cease and she will have to deal with everything that she is pushing out right now.

How are you holding up? Are you at work today?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 02:08 PM
I am at work. It is good and bad. I'm preparing for a trial that starts Nov 2nd (I'm in LE, not an attorney!) and it is huge...over 83K pages of evidence. It is a mind numbing task in itself...let alone with everything else going on. My promise to myself was that if I can make it through everything I am dealing with right now I can do anything. I will make it.

I'm holding up as well as to be expected. I am sad but at least I know that is happening instead of when is it going to happen...if that makes any sense.

I hope she has a revelation one day. Either way, I am making myself a better person and moving on. Today is the first day or real detachment so help me stay on track with that. Thanks EB.
Posted By: WalkingMan Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 03:29 PM
Yep, I remember when my XW came home from a month long business trip, packed up and moved into her own apartment. She had her own idea of what it would be like. It's funny how they plan for months but then things don't exactly work out they way they want. For me, every time my XW made a step in a direction, I either made the decision to not react at all or react. A reaction for me would be more detachment, more GAL's and 180's.

Then she would rationalize..."see we're at our best when we're apart." This was total crap. BUt at least she's learning that there are effects for her decisions and I'm no longer there to pick up the pieces and help her through. Just wait....the holidays are coming and that will be the true test for her.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 07:28 PM
I know. I remember when we were first dating the holidays were horrible for her. That was the first Xmas she was divorced. I can only imagine what this one will be for her as she now has 3 kids with two different fathers. Halloween is coming up...I have the kids costumes already and that is my weekend. I know she will want to come to our neighborhood and be with them.

I have to decide how I want to handle that. I want her to be able to enjoy that time with them but this was her decision dammit! There has to be some consequences. The kids will have fun regardless...our neighborhood is great. Probably not so great over at her apt complex smile
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 07:30 PM
I know. I remember when we were first dating the holidays were horrible for her. That was the first Xmas she was divorced. I can only imagine what this one will be for her as she now has 3 kids with two different fathers. Halloween is coming up...I have the kids costumes already and that is my weekend. I know she will want to come to our neighborhood and be with them.

I have to decide how I want to handle that. I want her to be able to enjoy that time with them but this was her decision dammit! There has to be some consequences. The kids will have fun regardless...our neighborhood is great. Probably not so great over at her apt complex smile
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 08:12 PM
I am sorry WTTB. Fortunately, I was not around when my W moved out and she really didn't take much anyway. It was still a hit to see things changed when I got back. Focus on the kids and find friends to be with. It was hard for me to go to many of my old friends (as many of them still do not know that W and I are seperated). But it is important that you do not isolate here.

Hang in there and GAL.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 09:40 PM
I'm getting it. I am getting ready to go home now. There will be some shock but over the next couple of days and this weekend I am going to totally re arrange everything, clean and make it feel like "my home" instead of "our home".
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/01/09 09:42 PM
I would suggest getting out a bit too. Be with people. I used family, friends and strangers.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 02:33 AM
You know, tonight has actually been good. There is lots to around the house and I actually feel like a weight has been lifted off my shoulders. I am sure this a roller coaster but I think I will sleep good tonight. She was the one who actually wanted to hang around before she left. I was ready for her to leave.

I am ready for tomorrow and a great weekend with my kids. I really feel detached right now. Let's see how the ride goes.....
Posted By: Entangled Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 02:51 AM
Good for you! Sorry it's come to this, but great to hear how strong you sound! Try to stay positive, breathe, and focus on the kids.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 03:04 AM
How are the kids doing? Are they handling it OK? Mine have actually handled the seperation quite well. Good to hear you are doing well.
Posted By: shellshockedga Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 01:42 PM
WTTBB, I feel your pain. My house isnt cleaned out, she only took some stuff, but it jsut feels empty. 19.5 years of being together, and it came down to "We will get through this." Whatever.... To be so detached (from the WAS side) that you can look your kids in the eyes and say you are leaving, is as bizarre as it gets. As I watched my wife say it last night to the boys,I jsut sat in awe and wondered how could anyone do this to children. And, of course I know it is the little green alien inside her head running amuck, but still.

Hang in the prayers and my prayers go out to both our familes.
Posted By: Coach Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 02:09 PM
Quote:
And, of course I know it is the little green alien inside her head running amuck, but still.


Nope, the pain of leaving is less than the pain of staying. You have to understand, be compassionate, and empathetic to what she is grappling with. Then you can work on the things that are valid issues while getting back to being the man you were meant to be.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/02/09 07:09 PM
Boy she was angry this morning. She is mad that anyone knows she has left. She feels like everyone thinks she is insane, selfish and heartless (I've known this for awhile now!). I told her there are consequences to go along with every decision and I did not want to bad mouth her to anyone (she is my wife and the mother of the kids). She is under the impression that I am out bashing her every chance that I get and making myself out to be the victim. I think in her head this is what she thinks I feel and wants it to be that way...that is her power. I told her I was not a victim and she made her own decisions. I was going to be a good father and do what I can to make my kids happy. I told her if she calmed down we could talk later, if she wanted.

She has threatened on more than one occasion she is getting her own attorney. We were going to pursue an uncontested divorce at one time. I have been putting that off, hoping she would want to reconcile at some point. If she got her own attorney, she would be at a disadvantage now. She just signed a year lease on a 2BR apt with 3 kids and I live in the family home. I think I would have a good chance at getting temporary custody and eventually full custody.

Just my thoughts....
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/03/09 03:48 AM
She calmed down as the day went on. I'm sure she is having some emotional swings. I actually had a good day. I actually feel better than I thought I would with her being gone. Once the rope is dropped I really don't have that effort of holding on to it!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/03/09 06:05 PM
Today has been good. Been cleaning and organizing things that I want them organized. The independence really helps my mood. I havenot talked to the W since she left on Thursday. She sent me those mad texts on Friday and one last night telling me to tell the kids good night but other then that, no communications. I am really fine with that. I will have to see her tomorrow to make the switch though. Should be fine but we will see what kind of mood she will be in.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 03:23 AM
Anyone who reads this will never guess what just happened....I was just putting my kids to bed wthen the doorbell rang...I opened it up and it was the wife of at least 1 OM. I invited her in and we had a nice little talk. She told me all about how abusive and crazy her husband was and how she knew he and my W had been talking on the phone alot. She didn't have any proof (nor do I) of anything more but she is going through a divorce with him because of his reputation and a whole host of other problems.

She said she is going to subpoena his phone records and knows my W is going to show up all over it.

Here is my question....I'm detached enough to where this doesn't even bother me that much right now. She will freak out when she knows our small town is going to know all about this....

Do I tell her I had nice little visit tonight? I'm thinking just let it go. I would love for her to find out I had talked to her and did not say anything to her about it. Getting detached like this is a good feeling. Make no mistake about it - I still love her but she is just walking all over herself.

NOTHING suprises me anymore.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 04:16 AM
Do not mention anthing to her. Nothing good can come of it.
Posted By: dolphin_05 Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 04:37 AM
I would let it go. She is the one who took the steps and now she faces the consequences of her actions. You are quite detached and do not need to get involved.
Posted By: Eskimo Nell Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 04:43 AM
^^ ditto ^^

You also don't need to be dragged in to any more unpleasantness.

It was the w of the om that came to you ... rest on that knowledge and (even though it's not right) feel a bit of smugness and self-satisfaction that all is not well in the new R your WAW has gotten herself into. May help you to detach even further!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 04:47 AM
I agree....I do get some satisfaction from it. I'll let it go for now.....
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/04/09 11:52 PM
Whoa! I've been away from a computer for a few days (and a bit of a mental mess too)

Miss a day..miss a lot I see.

I'd have a hard time sitting on this one. If you were to say anything you'd have to be really careful how you went about it. Probably best to leave it alone...for now.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 01:23 AM
Well I tried. Tonight was the first night we've seen each other since Thursday. I have not called her, not texted her, anything....she has called and texted me concerning the kids and I knew she wanted to drag it out but I ended the conversations.

She came by tonight while the SD was at bball practice to get a few more things and to see the kids. She tried getting me into the R talk and an argument and I told her I was not going to get into that with her. I could immediately tell the last few days have been hard on her. Anyways, she was pushing my buttons on me having told others we had split up and she is very concerned about how she is being perceived (she should be) and so forth. Accusing me of bashing her and yada yada....so I let her have it. Told her 50% of what I knew (from last night) and how did she think of her perception now that our small town has a pre conceived notion of her - regardless of whether it is true or not. I firmly let her know I had nothing to do with the sitation she has put herself in and that she was going to have to deal with it. She was freaked out. I let her know it in a way that indicated I was telling her for her benefit and that I thought she should at least know what she is potentially in for. Honestly, I would expect the same from her...don't know why.

I am fully detached and she is fully aware of it. She is an emotional wreck right now. She said things like "You don't want anything to do with me anyways" and "You don't want me here", etc.....

She has texted me 3 times since she left. Should be an interesting week...she will pick them up from my house tomorrow after school. Be the start of the first week for them (and her) in their cozy 2BR apt...

Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:18 AM
Oh boy, she just called me. She is really breaking down....saying how sick she is, how she needs help, "How can you forgive the unforgivable?", etc. Never have seen her like this. I mean totally messed up.

I was strong for her and reallly listened..we had to end the call because the kids needed to get to bed. I left the door open for her to call back.....
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:39 AM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
I was strong for her and reallly listened..we had to end the call because the kids needed to get to bed. I left the door open for her to call back.....


Good. Be there for her. Let her know that you understand how she is feeling. Be compassionate. I let my W know that I forgave her, but that is your call.

It sounds like she needs a white knight right now.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 03:21 AM
I agree. Be there for her ...if you can be.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 12:02 PM
I was. She did call back. I had NO idea of the seriousness of her issues. She is facing serious bi-polar issues and all of her effort has been in hiding that. She is really sick....

I let her know I was there for her. I really listened and she told me how right I have been all along. She said she gets the maddest at me when I am right. Last night she really wanted to talk to a C but she is so scared at having to really talk. She also said she knows that by this morning she will have represses everything and probably would not admit to anything she said last night.

can anyone give me advice on what to do next? She is really reaching and I am there for her.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 01:13 PM
I was not aware she was bipolar. Was it mentioned before? Did you know? The reason I ask is my W is diagnosed with the same tendencies. It does change things a bit (actually quite a bit). Has she seen a psych? Find out if it is Bipolar I or Bipolar II. There is a big difference between the manic side of these 2 types.

In the manic phase, bipolars can become impulsive in their decissions. They can become irratable. They can become paranoid. Sound familiar? My suggestion is read up on everything you can about bipolar. This is a difficult illness for both the diagnosed and their spouse. This can be a real emotional rollercoaster, so be ready.

Start keeping track of her moods and ask her to do the same. This will help you find "triggers" that set the mood swings in motion. Try to request that she see a psych fairly regularly. Fortunately, bipolar can be controlled somewhat with meds over a period of time. But as my W and I found, this must be carefully administered or it can do more harm than good. This is a chronic illness that she will be battling for the rest of her life, but it can be controlled.

Good luck.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 01:27 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
can anyone give me advice on what to do next? She is really reaching and I am there for her.


Sorry WTTB. I read too fast in the last post and noticed that she was hiding the bipolar.

As for the current advice, understand that much of what she may have been doing is due to the illness. She has has as little understanding of what is going on in her head as you do. A bipolar once explained it to me as (not exact quote) "Your emotions feel like a candle in a hurricane. You are consumed by them." So be very understanding of her.

Also, she has confided this diagnosis to you. Do not give this info out to anybody; it is hers to give out.

Finally, all you can do is be there for her. Listen to what she is going through. Try to understand her emotions. Praise her when she takes steps to overcome the illness (taking meds, seeing psych, refuting impulsive thoughts, etc.). Consider this diagnosis for both of you. You will both be affected and it will be both of your responsibilities to control it.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:13 PM
One more thing WTBB. If you do not have a IC, you should consider getting one. Choose one that has good knowledge of Bipolar. At first, the IC will help you understand what is going on between your W and you. After you have a good understanding of bipolar, the IC will still be a good outlet for you.

Take care.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:22 PM
This is something that will be kept to us. Last night was the deepest conversation we've had in 7 years of being together. She has not been diagnosed with it, but all the research I've done clearly shows it.

Last night when I got off the phone with her she said today she would be fine. She has already called me this morning and went through the process of getting pre-certified through our insurance program. She still has to follow through with it but she has made some major steps in getting the help she needs.

I do have an IC....he has recommended to me before that she needs help. The last thing my W wanted to hear from me is that she needed help...she needed to come to that conclusion on her own and I knew she would in time. It took her leaving to do it though.

Significant headway has been made in the last 24 hours. I know this is going to be a long, long road but I hope we can at least stay on it.


Thanks for your insight Tristan.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:28 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
This is something that will be kept to us. Last night was the deepest conversation we've had in 7 years of being together. She has not been diagnosed with it, but all the research I've done clearly shows it.


Then you need to request that she see a psych. Meds can help this. Hopefully she will follow through. If she and the psych are willing to let you join her at the session that is good too.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 02:54 PM
She is going to. She really admitted a lot of things last night....how I have been spot on when saying things to her, how she really didn't mean a lot of the things she said but felt she had to say them, how she pushes herself and keeps running away - she even said she will only 'glance back' over her shoulder because she doesn't want to see what she is running from. She even described herself in different 'modes'...the working mode, the Mom mode, how she satisifies each of those....man it was deep. Things I always though I knew but for the first time she admitted them. I know if took A LOT for her to first realize then second admit them to me. This is what I have desired for so long..to be able to communicate. I really made it through to her that I am there to listen, to help her through this and that I am not going to use any of this against her.

No matter what happens between us, she is going to have to address these issues...otherwise she knows she is going to implode.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 03:29 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
She even described herself in different 'modes'.


Actually, I think most working moms struggle with this. However, I will let the ladies chime in.

Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
keeps running away


My W often uses phrases like this. She just wants to run away from everything. I am not all that sure that this is all that abnormal either: "Calgone take me away!" But I think my W may have made impulsive decissions to act on it.


Going to see a psych is a good idea. After reading some of the beginning of your thread; it sounds like she may have entered a hypo-manic phase recently. Has she had long periods of depression in the past? That is the other side of bipolar. Does she have any relatives that have been diagnosed with mental illness (Bipolar, Obsessive-Compulsive, Schizophrenia, Depression, etc.)? There is a genetic component to these illnesses.

In any case, I would be careful of trying to diagnose her too fast. Even professionals can disagree; my wife's psych believes that she is bipolar, but the MC still believes that she has borderline tendencies. Although I don't think he disagrees with the bipolar diagnosis anymore.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 04:21 PM
She does have phases...she has been depressed in the past. Her Mom is somewhat the same way. Impulsive actions w/o little thought about the future.

Last night she kept saying there is no way I could understand...I told her I watched her decide she was going to move out, look for a place, sign a lease, move stuff....I told her I could see in her head she was just pushing herself to take the next step no matter how irrational she was acting. She doesn't want to look back because she is scared about what she is leaving behind. She said I was exactly right.

Her world is falling apart right now. There is a lot of gossip in our small town right now...there is two different people that have said something to her this morning about the whole situation the other night. A lot of it probably is not true...I told her that does not matter because the truth does not always sell...look at tabloids!

She is facing the consequences of all she has done. I hope she can bear it all. I will be there for her but she is finally realizing the world does not revolve around her.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 04:22 PM
I hope she can get in and talk to someone soon. I feel like she has to get in now while she is in this phase of being open. Her guard will be back up soon.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/05/09 09:38 PM
well, things have been interesting. She called me and wanted to talk. She wants to talk with a C really bad. I tell her I will meet her at 2 at home. I get home at 2 and she is already here and has taken 5 1mg xanax. She said she wishes she had taken the whole bottle frown

she was crying uncontrollably until the xanax took effect. She is now sleeping. I checked with the dr (this is my scrip, not hers) and he said this is not enough to hurt but to keep watch on her. I got her an appt tomorrow am to talk with a C and her Mom is coming over soon. I don't know who is going to wake up when she does and I hope she is ok with her Mom being here. I am in one messed up situation.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/06/09 01:29 AM
Hopefully you can get her in to see a psych soon. If it is bipolar, this could be the crash. I am assuming the Dr. told you in what cases something needed to be done; otherwise let her be until she wants something.

Take care.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/06/09 02:03 AM
Wow. Your head must be spinning.

It sounds like she really needs you right now. I commend you for being there for her after all you have gone through.

I wish you luck and will keep you both in my prayers.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/06/09 07:45 PM
well it has been interesting. I am the dr's office right now with her. She confessed everything last night. 4 OM's, all used in some sort of power play game she has been doing. All sexual, no real emotional are. Everything makes sense in some sort of weird way now. The lies, the cover ups, why she has been running away so hard. She fully realizes how many mistakes she has made.

I don't know why, but I told her I am standing by her. What kind of man would I be if I left my wife is she is this sick? She has a bad illness and I am hoping it can be treated with therapy, time and love. I was fully detached but now right back in it.

yeah it hurts but she is hurting worse. We have put an end to all contacting other people and the priority right now is her, not our marriage. I hope I can be strong for her and be there. It takes alot but she needs me. She is worried that I am going to leave her later as we try to fix things...I promised I would not.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/06/09 07:57 PM
Good Luck WTBB. Its good you both recognize it as a illness. I have to commend you on your understanding, that can not be easy to take. Hopefully everything is up from here.

Take care.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/07/09 11:16 PM
Sure has been interesting lately. This is hard to deal with - it really is. We spent the day together today. I am just taking it easy and hoping there is not a serious rebound to all of this. We've been communicating well and spending time together. All of our troubles are stemming from her guilt she had. All of that is out on the table now and hopefully we can deal with it and make a better marriage. Anyone had any advice?
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/07/09 11:36 PM
Take it slow. Go day by day.

How are you? How is your wife? Does she want to work on your M?

You said it's all because of guilt. Something sent her to other men to start with. She may want to figure out how that happened first.

Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 12:46 AM
We are both ok considering the circumstances. She is willing to work on our marriage....she just could not get past the guilt. Now that I know everything and how that guilt affected everything, we can work on some solutions. I don't know where to start, I just want the world to stop spinning for a little while.

EB - the C described the BP condition as one of feeling power and craving attraction.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 03:23 AM
I don't know what to say other than get an appointment with a MC and request she see a psych. This all happened so fast, I am guessing there is a lot more to the rollercoaster of emotions. The more supports you put in place now, the better prepared you will be to handle it.

Take care.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 12:03 PM
How are you holding up this morning?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 02:32 PM
Pretty good. We all stayed here last night. T - we did see a Psych on Tuesday. He diagnosed here with BP and we got started on medicine that night. I understand it will take awhile for the effects to kick in so the next couple of weeks will need to taken easy.

It is almost like I have my old wife back. There is "I love you" talk, I am so grateful for you, you are such a man and father to step up when I need you, etc. Very nice things to hear that I haven't heard for so long. The physical intimacy is coming around as well. I just hope we have hit the low spot (I can't imagine much lower) and we can slowly rebuild our R. We have planned out the next few days/nights. I think her being forgiven (but not forgotten) has made is easier for her to work on reconciling. Me getting to meet with her C while she was there also made a big difference because he explained to me what was going on her head and why she did a lot of stuff she did, w/o any thoughts on what she was doing and the consequences.

I love to write more but it has been a little busy around here smile

Thanks you guys for checking in. I owe a lot to the this board.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 02:52 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Pretty good. We all stayed here last night. T - we did see a Psych on Tuesday. He diagnosed here with BP and we got started on medicine that night. I understand it will take awhile for the effects to kick in so the next couple of weeks will need to taken easy.

It is almost like I have my old wife back. There is "I love you" talk, I am so grateful for you, you are such a man and father to step up when I need you, etc. Very nice things to hear that I haven't heard for so long. The physical intimacy is coming around as well. I just hope we have hit the low spot (I can't imagine much lower) and we can slowly rebuild our R. We have planned out the next few days/nights. I think her being forgiven (but not forgotten) has made is easier for her to work on reconciling. Me getting to meet with her C while she was there also made a big difference because he explained to me what was going on her head and why she did a lot of stuff she did, w/o any thoughts on what she was doing and the consequences.

I love to write more but it has been a little busy around here smile

Thanks you guys for checking in. I owe a lot to the this board.


Excellent. Do you mind me asking what the psych put her on?

I'm interested because my W has tried a few different ADs and a couple of mood stabilizers. And I like to keep track of what people think of the different meds. My W and I noticed small changes in mood stability after about two weeks on a mood stabilizer. But it took W 6 weeks to titrate up to her current dose and I don't believe she has received its full affect yet (we are 2 months into it right now). I have been told it can be 4 months before the full affects can be seen. This is a long process, be patient.

Good to hear things are moving in the right direction.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 03:55 PM
I cannot remember the actual spelling...lictum is phoenetic.

He also put her on a sleep aid called sequetrol (?) that he said also functions as a mood stabilizer but causes drowsiness.

I know about the patience thing......go slow but go in the right direction. I am scared as you can be inside though. I was fully detached and ready to go in my own direction and then all this happens. Wish we could have go help earlier before so much damage was done. Maybe it took hitting bottom to start going up.

I'm also checking your sitch everyday. Wishing the best for you as well.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 04:09 PM
The only ones I know that sound like that are Lithium and Lamictal.

My W was on Lamictal and was doing very well. Unfortunately, she had an allergic reaction to it 4 weeks in that can be life-threatening (rash). So she had to be taken off it immediately. This really screwed with her brain chemistry and is when our M really took a hit. I was much at fault; I didn't understand what was happening and did not react well.

Take care.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/08/09 04:29 PM
Yep, Lamictal. I was advised about the rash....hopefully she does well with it and doesn't have the side effects.

I feel like I have a lot of knowledge about everything right now and to me that gives me confidence. It sure does not help not picturing some images that are in my head. Man I don't want to have to go through what I did again.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/09/09 05:16 PM
We have been talking more and I cqn tell she appreciates me way more than I am used to. In fact, she put her rings back on yesterday and seems to be really committed to making us work. I am still a little nervous though...I guess gunshy would be a better word. I just don't want her to pull back. I have told myself to take it slow, make her want more and to keep up the changes I have made for myself. She also wants to go church together on Sunday which is a big plus. Any thoughts or advice on how to keep the momentum going?
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/09/09 05:35 PM
This is all very good stuff, especially church. Church was one of the first things to go when my W started wandering. If your W is anything like mine, there will be pullbacks. My W syas she is a "feather in the wind" and considers me to be a "rock". Another bipolar friend said "its like a candle in a hurricane". Her moods will swing; this is something that you will have to accept. You will have a desire to fix her moods; understand that you can't. Understand that she does not like the mood swings either, but must accept it too. Take solace that it is cyclical. I am still working on this, it is hard.

I am gunshy too. Its easy to understand why when their moods can swing so far, so fast. You need to be confident in yourself and be the man that your W needs during her hard times. Which may mean just leaving her alone and letting her work it out on her own. Be the "rock".
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/11/09 02:15 PM
Just an update...things have been really good....too good almost. She is really making efforts on her end and still feels a lot of guilt for all she has done and has been really good with the kids lately. Our family unit is really benefitting from this and makes us both feel better. The intimacy is back.....it really is getting easier to be comfortable around her.

Had a good night last night....the neighbors had a party and she was really nervous going due to her ignoring everyone and having moved out...she was worried how everyone would perceive her. I told her if we were going to work this out we would have to get over that....we ended up going together and had a great time. She thanked me later for talking her into going as she feels much better about everything.

So all is good...hope we can keep it up and make it even better!

This would not have been possible w/o prayer and this website.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/12/09 01:28 PM
Good to hear WTBB. My W is nervous to meet my parents again, she is not sure she is ready yet. But D5s birthday is next weekend and I would like for my parents to be there for it. We will see.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 12:05 PM
WTBB - I hope things are still progressing nicely!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 05:05 PM
Still going pretty good. I do not like the feeling of being in limbo though. I have some pretty tough times trying to decide on what to do. I feel like there is another shoe waiting somewhere to drop and we are going every which way now seeing as how we have an apt and a house. She is aware of this and the problems that it causes (kids are always wondering where we are staying??).

I love this woman and really want things to work out but I just do not have the security of a real relationship right now and that is what I really, really want. With all of this going on it makes it tough sometimes to focus on everything else.

While we are a good place in rebuilding our R, the uncertainity of it all is always right there.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 05:06 PM
I will say we have been together every night for a week at one place or another. Tonight may be our first night apart due to logistics...all of my stuff is one place and all of hers is at another.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Still going pretty good. I do not like the feeling of being in limbo though. I have some pretty tough times trying to decide on what to do. I feel like there is another shoe waiting somewhere to drop and we are going every which way now seeing as how we have an apt and a house. She is aware of this and the problems that it causes (kids are always wondering where we are staying??).

I love this woman and really want things to work out but I just do not have the security of a real relationship right now and that is what I really, really want. With all of this going on it makes it tough sometimes to focus on everything else.

While we are a good place in rebuilding our R, the uncertainity of it all is always right there.


It seems you and I are in the exact same place. Uncanny how similiar our sitches are.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 05:47 PM
You actually are in a decent spot as long as you don't push and work on improving yourself and finding the spark that drew you together in the first place.

I've been out five months now, my W says she's 100 percent sure she wants a divorce and would have filed if she had the money.

So there's no togetherness, no waffling, it's now strictly business. My mountain is a lot higher than yours. You should have feelings of hope.
Posted By: notagoodlistener Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 06:23 PM
Good luck with everything. I just read the entire thread and am new. I commend you for sticking this entire thing out so far. The past couple of months must have been tough. I did not understand until last week what it really meant to go through something like this. Last week after my ILYBIANILWU talk I easily had the worst few days of my life. I've never hurt so bad in my life. I'll be watching your thread from now on and keeping you in my thoughts.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/13/09 06:31 PM
NAGL - It has been tough. In all honestly it feels like a blur. You almost lose concept of time and reference points.

The whole process is tough for different reasons. Right now it is the thought of putting myself back into our R when I was ready to let go. It is worth it? Yes. But that does not mean I feel very vunerable and like it could be all taken away from me at any time. I know the ups and downs that go with all of this. I would love to feel "safe" again. I read the word patience on here all the time and I guess that is the only thing I can count on. I have had a lot of positives lately.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/14/09 07:57 PM
We didn't stay together last time purely because she did not have the right stuff at the house last night. She called me before bed, texted me and also sent me a facebook message. I talked to her for a little bit this morning and talked her Mom into watching the kids Fri night. We are going to have a date night that night.

She also went to the C yesterday and he said she appeared to be doing well on Lamictal. He is going to keep her on it and she talks to a therapist next week. This process should be interesting.

Actually the space last night was nice. I feel like she is missing me when I'm not there and this is good. I really like being with her but a little time here and there might do us some good. Just my thoughts.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/16/09 03:11 PM
I have been reading other people's threads and I feel like I am in a good place right now. I have a lot to be hopeful for even though it is a long road.
Posted By: ClingingToHope Re: How did I get here? - 10/16/09 03:13 PM
Yes. At least you are talking and planning dates. The only thing W and I are planning are holidays apart. I'm going to propose a low-cost divorce some time this month.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/16/09 04:19 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
I have been reading other people's threads and I feel like I am in a good place right now. I have a lot to be hopeful for even though it is a long road.


Yes you are in a good place. Be thankful and keep up the good work.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/18/09 11:27 PM
I'm trying...had a good weekend and talked about trying to move back into together in the future. I get anxious sometimes and realize I need to keep it slow...for the both of us.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/19/09 03:19 PM
You know how much easier my life would be if we could have just have just worked this out together instead of getting this far out??? I'm sure just about everyone on this board has said that and honestly, we probably couldn't be trying to work it out if she had not hit bottom.

I'm just saying....
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/19/09 04:09 PM
I've wondered the same thing.

It seems that we have to get to a certain point before we are willing to do things differently though.

It's too bad that it's that way.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/21/09 01:46 AM
Well I am getting the pull back. I knew it was coming I guess. After spending what I thought was quality time together since all this crap happened, the past few days have been her at her apt and me at the house. She is trying to slow things down when I don't necessarily want to. Probably is the right thing but we all know how hard that can be to do.

I feel like when we spend time apart it makes it easier to be apart. We can talk about this and I do not get angry about it but talk calmly. I guess I just don't know what I really want.

I am reading a book I picked up today...can't remember the name but the subject is being addicted to someone. It makes some sense and I wonder it I have some issues with trying to make something work no matter what the cost - regardless of whether or not I get anything out of the relationship.

Until tomorrow...
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/21/09 01:36 PM
Have patience. I know 3 days can seem like an eternity, but it is only 3 days. Are you still conversing?
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/21/09 02:05 PM
How is she when you talk to her? Is she open and telling you that she needs a little space or is she just pulling away?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/21/09 07:37 PM
No she is telling me she wants the space. She is carrying a TON of guilt and says she needs to figure out why she did the things she did and how she can overcome and live with her BP. She wants to date and all those good things....BUT we are now not staying together during the week, her rings are off, she does not call/text during the day like she did...

I can't imagine what is going through her head, only mine....and honestly, I don't like this. I feel like I get pulled back into the fire weeks ago, learned so much, forgave her and we started working on things only to have her say STOP. Maybe it is the right thing but I feel like she has all the control now and I have none. I am going to work on getting myself back together and in control of myself but in the meantime I don't know what to do.
Posted By: Entangled Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 02:47 PM
WTBB,

WOW!!! Just getting cought up on your sitch - been preoccupied with mu own little world.

This is wonderful! At least you know what's going on now, and have made some true progress. Stay strong, and don't forget to keep up with the changes youve made for yourself.

Hang in there!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 03:00 PM
The patience thing is the hardest. I want to jump back in and get to work and she does not. She has really taken some steps back from me and is trying to re-assess her situation. She is adamant she has to "fix herself" before she can work on our relationship. This is 180 degree turn from the previous weeks. I think she got spooked some. she doesn't understand how I can still want to work on our R...she said if the roles were reversed she would have told me to get out.

There are breaks in the clouds....I just have to develop the patience to wait it out.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 03:21 PM
Hi WTBB,

Well, I think you need to respect her wishes for space. Take the time to work on yourself and children. Remember to GAL.

The wedding band thing would be troubling to me too, but don't try to mind read. I would say you need to take a step back and watch what happens. If she isn't slipping back into her old ways I would say that is a great sign. The meds will take a while to have a full affect, so expect her to go through some different stages.

Have patience and hang in there.
Posted By: Entangled Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 05:37 PM
Made my last post before reading about the pull back. Sorry to hear about that, but you said you expected it, and from what I've read here and heard from Laurie, you were right to expect it. Go easy, don't smother her. Be supportive, but not too eager. Continue to GAL, and work on you. patience! Wait for the meds to kick in and help a bit. Time is your friend.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 08:20 PM
It's tough...I haven't talked to her all day and she will be by here around 5 to get the step D.

It's hard to be supportive as I am now doubting myself and what I really want....I am taking a huge leap of faith and trust getting back into this R.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 09:48 PM
We were supposed to go to a Halloween party tomorrow night...that is not happening now.

She emailed me and said she is pulling back because she does not want to give me any false hopes right now and doesn't have any feelings for me right now. She is only concerned with figuring herself out and being with the kids.

Am I at the end of anything happening? Is this where the plug is pulled on everything? I cannot continue on with this...
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/22/09 10:07 PM
This is such a turn around from last week. I guess I ushed things along a little too much. Paying a steep price now.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 12:55 AM
Anyone else experience this kind of pullbackk? What did you do and what can I expect?
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 02:08 AM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
We were supposed to go to a Halloween party tomorrow night...that is not happening now.

She emailed me and said she is pulling back because she does not want to give me any false hopes right now and doesn't have any feelings for me right now. She is only concerned with figuring herself out and being with the kids.

Am I at the end of anything happening? Is this where the plug is pulled on everything? I cannot continue on with this...


I am sorry WTBB, I know this was hard to hear. I heard this type of stuff on and off for a good 8 months. You need to give this at least a couple of months to give the meds a chance to work. The fact that she wants to focus on the kids is good. Respect her wishes for space.

Take the time to GAL. Take care of yourself.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 01:10 PM
I went through this stuff for quite a while. She was all over the place. Hated me and was full of anger. Then sadness. Then, we were OK and she couldn't believe what she put me through. She loved me more than ever and we'll be together forever and ever. Then...she just wasn't sure.

We had weeks on and weeks off. Like I said all over the place. The highs were really deep, loving, soulmate kind of highs. The lows were like dealing with an angry stranger.

Now we're roommates. She pops out the "her" that I remember every once in a while though.

You've got a real advantage here. She has acknowledged that the issues are stemming from her. She is addressing it with meds too.

Taking mind-altering medication could really be a hard thing to deal with.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 03:21 PM
I know you guys have gone through similar times...I lean on you two a lot.

It is hard right now because we have only basic communication and just pass by each other when only a week ago it was the total opposite. This process takes such emotional energy from you it is unreal.

I do think she needs to sort it out in her head...for any long term benefit for us. And I do think therapy and the meds will help her long term. But I don't know where "us" fits into all of that equation. I do know I cannot be with the person she is right now.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 03:32 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
I do know I cannot be with the person she is right now.


When you talk, is she not respectful? Is she still remorseful for the things she has done? Has she stopped the affairs? Is she concerned about the children?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 06:20 PM
Respectful..yes - very remorseful. So much so she cannot understand how I can every forgive her. Yes everything is stopped - as far as I know. Very concerned about the children. She has told me her only concerns right now are her head (she is on the meds and in therapy) and the kids. I understand this, I really do...but there is no R between us at all now where there was the past two weeks.

I feel like a stranger to her now.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/23/09 07:25 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Respectful..yes - very remorseful. So much so she cannot understand how I can every forgive her. Yes everything is stopped - as far as I know. Very concerned about the children.


Are you sure this is a person that you can not be with right now?

Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
She has told me her only concerns right now are her head (she is on the meds and in therapy) and the kids.


Given what she has been through, it sounds like quite a bit to deal with. Should she prioritize your relationship above her own head and the children? Is asking her to do that the loving thing to do? I know it is hard, but I think she needs time to wind down a bit.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/24/09 12:27 AM
Tristan I know you are right but I don't have a lot of hope when I have heard the same variation of "no feelings for me, not in love", etc. So much back and forth just wears a guy down.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/24/09 12:30 AM
Tristan I know you are right but I don't have a lot of hope when I have heard the same variation of "no feelings for me, not in love", etc. So much back and forth just wears a guy down.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/25/09 11:16 PM
Took the kids to a zoo a few hours away this weekend...made it an overnight stay...even took the step D. We had a great time. This is while the wife went to a halloween party. She saw the pics when we got back and I could tell she knew she missed out.

Tonight I am bringing the kids over and she wants me to stay for dinner. I am planning on hanging around for a few then I have other plans.

Weekends are always like this...by Sunday she is sad but once she gets to work on Monday that place turns her into someone else.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/26/09 10:47 AM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
Tristan I know you are right but I don't have a lot of hope when I have heard the same variation of "no feelings for me, not in love", etc. So much back and forth just wears a guy down.


I know. That is why GAL'ing is important, it helps mantain your energy.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/26/09 12:07 PM
Originally Posted By: wanttobebetter
She saw the pics when we got back and I could tell she knew she missed out.


Same thing here. Took S to an event Friday night (school Halloween thing). W seems like she felt like she missed out, but heaven knows she wouldn't say anything.

As for the getting worn down after being told how unloved you are...I totally get it. It kind of plays in your head like a broken record doesn't it? I think that the whole GAL thing really does help though.

"Get a life" seems to be a bit of a broken record on these boards too, but there is something to it. It helps you feel better and makes you more interesting, and makes the W wonder what you're up to smile
Posted By: Day by Day Re: How did I get here? - 10/26/09 12:29 PM
I'll chime in too. I've really been struggling with the rejection from my S. GAL really, really does help! With fall coming, seems much easier to keep busy with the fall festivals and Halloween events. Keep yourself distracted and have fun.

I've been doing all the things my H wouldn't want to do anyway. smile
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/27/09 05:50 PM
How you holding up?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/27/09 08:25 PM
Well staying with GAL is working. Sunday night she basically confessed to me she is jealous of me because I have my life together. I made my changes and are sticking with them. She wants to be with me but she needs to get herself together to where she can look at herself in the mirror because I have everything together and am so strong!

This DB stuff works and works well. You just have to wait it out. I don't know where we will end up but I am better for it.

She was off work yesterday and came back with stuff to stay with and said she is all in with me. When I got home yesterday she had painted one of the kids rooms..on top of having a good therapy session yesterday.

Let's see how the week plays out and we can go from there! My point is to GAL, patience and keeping control of yourself are the most important things I have learned from this board.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 10/27/09 09:04 PM
Excellent! Be ready for more ups and downs, but you are doing great.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 10/28/09 01:52 AM
Thanks Tristan. By now I know how the ride goes so I am more ready for the ride and what to expect. I am more in control of myself and my W is really communicating with me which is what I have been wanting all along.

The people and info on this board are true lifesavers.
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 10/28/09 11:57 AM
It sounds like you are getting along as well as can be expected. Sure, there will be more ups and downs, but you're prepared.

Good for you.
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 11/01/09 02:39 AM
Just an update. Things are going great. We have been doing a lot of talking and this weekend she is moving her stuff back. She also put her resignation in at her job because right now her priority is her family and work is a distraction. Can we do it financiallyN yes, it will be tough but who can put a price on a busted divorce! Things have not been this good between us for years and the future looks good. I will update again in a few days and keep checking in on everyone else who is working hard.
Posted By: tristan Re: How did I get here? - 11/02/09 03:05 PM
WTBB

Good for you. How are you feeling?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 11/03/09 08:22 PM
I'm feling pretty good...everything is going really well but me internally...there is a lot to get over and get through. I feel like I am getting my wife and family back but I know this is a process that will take time to work through. It does look good though!
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 11/04/09 02:45 PM
Good for you guys.

Take it slow.

Best of luck!!!!
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 11/04/09 04:02 PM
I am trying but things are moving fast. I will take what I can get though and do my best!!
Posted By: Energizer Bunny Re: How did I get here? - 11/11/09 06:59 PM
How's it going?
Posted By: wanttobebetter Re: How did I get here? - 11/16/09 10:05 PM
Well it was going good until early last week. Someone contacted me and told me my wife had recently talked to one of the OM's in our sitch. Everything had been going great until I find this out and she is really depressed now because she is frustrated with her actions. It kills me too because whatever we had built back up was just tore down. She crossed a major boundary by having contact, not telling me about it, then minimizing it when confronted by me.

The only thing that got me past this is that she is no longer at her job and she really has been putting a lot of effort towards our relationship.

I am wore out though. I can put on a good face but I find myself asking how much of a sucker can I be? I hope there is a good outcome for all that I have sacrificed for this M.
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