Hi DB'ers
Seems like my last thread got locked out (as is common here) so I'm starting again.
My original thread can be found here:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1820891&page=1
Journal - Day 5 of staying dark:
Had a reasonable night last night. Went to bed later, which helped a little. Woke this morning to the 'cheep' of my cellphone signifying that I had a text. Looked at the clock - 06:10hrs, must be H texting me, no-one else is up at that hour and that's 11.10PM in the UK, so it won't be them! When I checked, no text ... how bizarre!! Maybe H was thinking about me and it was just a 'sign'. Yup! You are getting it - I am plain crazy.
Friend coming around for coffee this morning and then I go for counselling #3 this afternoon. Should fill the day quite well.
Feel slightly better about being dark. Almost giggling at what a challenge this could turn in to - "a battle of the wits"!! I'm also trying to figure out what H's response will be, when and if he breaks the silence - I know, I shouldn't care!! Sorry, but I do - I did say that I am TRYING to detach, I didn't say that I was there yet! However, I am not caving.
Even though words of advice to others here may not be in as expert vein as some may have to give, it's kind of empowering to be able to help others now that I have been here a little while. When you do something which MAY help, you feel like you are paying something forward and that usually puts a smile on my face
Hi Nell
Just popped in to say hi. You are one brave girl going dark, I really don't know what I should be doing at the moment.
Let's know how your counselling session goes.
Will check in later.
Hi Oz
I don't know about being brave - it doesn't feel that way and it's hurting like hell. I am trying to be reassured by the fact that people say that it's counter-intuitive process but works for so many and my focus is 'what else have I got right now'? I have to give this my best shot - what other ammunition do I have? The alternative is to roll over and let H call the shots, which would keep me weak, needy and vulnerable?
Being silent and mysterious is going to make H wonder what I am up to (I know my H!) and whilst he might consider that I am playing games, it's also a 180 in that I am giving him the space that he seems to yearn for right now. I am not hassling, not pursuing, not calling/emailing/texting ... you know how this works. His last email to me (yesterday) remains unanswered and his last sentence was that he hopes that the cats and I are OK. Well, no answer, must make him wonder I would have thought - that's an open invite for a return email, as was his new email address. I have not bitten - a good 180, or what? Double-whammy!!
Had my friend around for coffee this morning which was lovely but then she started talking about her H and how loved up they are as a family - it kind of smacks you in the face, even though you don't want to seem churlish - this is their reality, as it was mine just a few weeks back. Hurts though to see other people being happy and living a normal family life. Made me a bit down after she had left :o( Just glad that I am going to see counsellor now this arvo so that I get chance to let out some more inner feelings and have an hour of self-indulgent 'me' time!
Catch you later.
Something that I would love to be able to say to H, if I were not DB'ing like a mad woman would be:
"You know, I accept that we have both had issues in our M and are equally at fault in our separation. Since then, I have done so much research and reading and I believe that I have found the monumental answer that you spoke of! I have learned how we can put right our wrongs, learn to speak each other's love language, get back on track and finally fall back in love and build a successful M - together forever. This does not have to be the end for us - even though you may feel that way right now. Is this something that we can talk about".
If I could get that over to him, I think that I will know in my heart that I could never have done any more than my best to let him know that all is not lost.
How do I do that - and especially now that I have to wait until I go back in to the light??
Hi Nell,
You certainly sound heaps better!
Cas
I don't know what PMA stands for
Hiya Im just catching up with your sitch, you really have come a long way working on yourself, I can totally understand what you want to say to your H I would too and normally my H would have listened, but atm he is chosing to stick to the same old story of atm he doesnt want to try, so I have stopped asking him! x
Thanks Stuck...I know I've read PMA before but I couldn't remember what it stood for and nor could I find that list of abbreviations on the forum. Much appreciated Stuck.
Cas
Nice to see you over this side, Rabbit! Yes, your H and mine sound like alien-clones right now!!
My counsellor asked me today how life would be if H does not ever return and I almost lost it but when I regained my composure, I had to say that life would still go on ... it would be uncertain, unappetising and unappealing and an overwhelming experience for me but I had to admit that in doing what I am currently doing in starting to detach, I have got stronger and so would undoubtedly manage to get by. It's not palatable, of course, but the strong words from Gucci Loafer and the massive support from the ladeez, who are my buddies here have made me realise that what I do, I have to do for myself now - not my H. I just wish that I could have faced up to this before I left it so long and I urge anyone that can, to do so.
Inside, I am still struggling like h*ll and wanting my H to come home, every single minute of every single day. What I have learned though is to take the baby steps and set small mile-markers for myself. If I can make it through one day, I can make it through another.
My big goal at the moment is to remain dark for one month - this is a day by day, week by week process and I am hoping that H will break the silence before then but when and if I do reply, it has to be in a way that tells him that I am holdling the reigns and we will dance to my tune.
If he does not join in, I am already hatching my LRT - Last Resort Technique. Anyhow, more of what we know to be working and stop what we known which is not. Learn a few mantras - they help!
People here become like your family and I find myself sitting in bed sometimes thinking, "I must get up now and see how Oz, JCJ, Cas and Rabbit are doing" ... we get wrapped up in one another and that is a good thing. We are living each others pain in our own unique ways but the bottom line is all the same - we are hurting, our H's mostly have ow (does yours - are you sure?) and we all want to be reconciled with the men that we love. Surely, that's the biggest bond between us and if we can help each other up each rung of this hideously tall ladder, then we will have done something good for woman-kind and we will all reap our rewards, wherever it is that we can enjoy them the most. (Chocolate Heaven sounds OK to me)!!
Thanks mate! It's taking all of my effort right now but Day Six tomorrow ... yay!
How are you doing??
Nell, tram flap is breast recon using tissue from a donor spot most often abdo
My sitch has gotten much better over the past week.
I had reached the point where I had attracted my W back and felt it was time to call her out on her disrespectful attitude. I wrote her a lengthy email to which she didn't verbally respond to, but has been making some changes that I mentioned.
The fact is, if she were to leave tomorrow, I'd be fine. If she stays, I'll be fine. I can live with or without her.
Like I first mentioned to you. You need to command respect from your H. If not, he will continue to walk all over you. Get his attention first and then you will decide if YOU still want him.
Wow Cas - you live and learn. There's me a nursey and didn't even know it was called that!! I'm in OSH/Rehab, so can probably be excused - as well as being a 'new' Aussie citizen so not up with all the lingo, yet!
That's what gets my goat actually when H comes over and tries out some new Aussie phrases - obviously taught to him by ow. It was only time really, I told him - "you've embraced this new life so well you were bound to get yourself a Sheila" - he didn't like that!
Makes me spew that we came here on my qualifications too - he would never have qualified on his own ... something which I wish I could take off him now (citizenship) and for which he says he will be forever indebted to me .... unlike our M then!
Nell, what did your counsellor think of your 'going dark' approach?
Can't call you on that advice Stuck - you are right. I just think that it comes to all of us at different times - right now I am receptive and not reactive but next week I may be different. I feel that this is the difference between Venus and Martians!
I'm glad that your sitch has become better and that you have realised that you will be fine, either outcome. That is empowering, whichever way you look at it.
At the moment, I'm prepared to try going dark for a month and then look at options. Is that timeline reasonable, too long, too short ... comments please?? Don't forget, this is a man who is ADAMANT that our M is over so I don't want to let his leash out too long.
Any other pearls of wisdowm??
"Is that timeline reasonable, too long, too short ... comments please??"
Only you will know when you've had enough. Again this is not a "strategy" per se. Let's put it this way. If he doesn't contact you after a month, what will you plan to do? Or more importantly, what do you plan to do in the month that you are going dark? You still haven't mentioned that.
"I don't want to let his leash out too long."
Here again, you want to have some kind of control over his actions. You can't control him. He doesn't have a leash right now. He's out roaming the neighborhood and may never come back. You have to live with that reality and just detach.
To detach is to live your life the way you want to. Make that your priority. Detachment. There's a saying "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back it was meant to be."
Hey Nell
You are really full steam ahead with the programme and good for you. I on the other hand feel I have gone backwards.
As stuck said what do you plan to do during the month of going dark? Any luck with any jobs yet? I really hope something turns up for you soon it will make a huge difference to your day.
Oz
Hi Cas
Counsellor didn't say too much about me being dark. I guess that yesterday's session was supposed to be about my self-esteem and why it is that I always put people first (typical of a nurse, eh?). She was interested in why I had taken that option and that I responded that, for the time being, this month is about ME and not H. That seemed to satisfy her as she smiled!
I commented that our one hour session goes so fast and she is looking to do a two hour session with me in a few weeks. I find it so liberating to be self-centred for the time that I am there and I like that she challenges me on things that I normally like to push under the rug! I have also started to ask questions of myself and she finds my insight refreshing, I guess. I 'brainstorm' and I take things along to her that I have written - mainly lists.
I don't feel that I am moving very fast with her but I do feel that I am slowly starting to weed my 'own' garden, if that makes sense! I would recommend a good counsellor to anyone right now, however unsure of it one may feel. It's really helping.
It's so tough when your back is agains the wall. Stuck, your comments are spot on but thinking of how to respond is really challenging.
Honestly, I've had enough already. I just want to call him and say "It's total madness that we are both living like this. Come home. I hear so well that you have been unhappy but I know that we can turn this around for both of us. We can sort this out. I just need to be able to tell you my thoughts, what I have learned how we can deal with this, I have learned how to save our M, I have learned that we CAN love one another properly - and start all over again" but of course, I know that it is totally wrong and he would not respond positively at all to that approach.
I have no idea as to what I am going to do in the month of darkness. Just keep on trying to get a job and GAL of some sort, I guess. I'm a week in almost and I feel no differently other than to keep wondering if I am having any impact, which of course is not the right idea behind detaching. In honesty, I feel that I am using it as a strategy and not to 'let go' as I still do not want to. I'm like a kid giving up her doll because I know that it's good to let someone else play with your toys and I will get a reward for it later. Have we all been there?? I know that I have.
Knowing that I want some control over H's actions is all well and good but no, you are right, I don't have any right now. It's not that I want to control him long term, its just that I am scared of what's happening and especially whilst I am dark. I can't bear that he may never come back, although I am feeling thoughts more each day of whether or not I could forgive him for all this hurt that he is putting me through. I can not believe that anyone who has loved me as he has in the past, could TOTALLY abandon me - he knows my inner most strengths and weaknesses, fears and threats and he has flown in the face of all that I have ever confided in him. That's a tough pill to swallow, even when you love someone as much as I do him.
I am familiar with your saying "If you love someone, set them free. If they come back it was meant to be." and I do feel that I have let him go ... he's certainly not 'here' is he? I just feel that he is so lost at the moment and reading over some of his emails recently, I get a sense that he is no better off as he is living with so many unknowns right now. This is not the cut and dried situation that he thought that it would be and I know that, even if he takes no action, there will not be a day that goes by when he does not think of me and the home that he has left behind. That's the kind of man he is.
Hey Oz,
Oh my friend - if you read my response to Stuck, you will realise that my steam is very sporadic at the moment. I have been riding the crest of the wave but I am wondering if I am on the downward slope now. I have woken this morning with doubts of what I am doing and lots of fears for the future.
No luck with jobs - the one that I was to interview for today was a non-starter and I didn't even go for the interview in the end - they were jerking me around and I knew it. I have worked with them before. I am so done with people playing games - I haven't the energy for it.
I shall jump across to your post and see what's the latest with you ...
Hi Nell
Don't give up on the job front, when the right job is there for you it will all work out. It is hard though when you are specially skilled.
We all go down the downward slope, I am at the bottom at the moment, feel like I am drowning, so have to keep swimming so I can get back on the top of the wave.
As you said in an earlier post we are all here for each other even though we are all at varying stages of our R.
Oh well, back to the sorting out, unpacking and cleaning. Will pop back again later.
(((Nell)))
Oz
Good luck with unpacking and cleaning - it seems never ending, doesn't it when you are moving home?
I can feel myself sinking today and there's nothing that I can do to get a grip. I've done all my tasks for the day and it's still only twenty past ten in the morning!
Work has to come soon .. I am giving up the will to live.
Is anyone out there playing the Dream Interpretation game in regard to their current situation?
Just interested as the other night I dreamed that I was cycling with a group of people, came to a bridge crossing a gorge, started to cross it and then froze - even though I wanted to get to the winding tracks that lay ahead - they looked like so much fun and very challenging! Got off the bike (clever old me, that high up and on a knife edge - even though I was afraid of falling over and crashing in the bottom of the gorge!) and then I lay down, clinging tightly to the bridge, petrified to let go, not able to move forward or back. No amount of coaxing could move me.
Interpretations:
Bridges in dreams are symbols of transition, because when we cross them, they lead us to a new location.
1. Transition; crossing from one way of life to another.
2. A rise in the level of consciousness on the part of the dreamer; heightened awareness.
3. To see a long bridge dilapidated, and mysteriously winding into darkness, profound melancholy over the loss of dearest possessions and dismal situations will fall upon you. To the young and those in love, disappointment in the heart's fondest hopes, as the loved one will fall below your ideal.
Last night, I dreamed that I found a dead body dumped in a garbage bin. Can only find something about 'rubbish' on internet:
RUBBISH : Rubbish in dreams links to the word unwanted. It maybe is unwanted emotional problems, unwanted health problems, unwanted people who annoy you or simply the feeling that you are unwanted.
For those following my posts, I am sure that you will see there is meaning for me in these interpretations ... I shall be watching out for this in the near future. I wonder what I shall dream tonight ... ?
Our brains are curious places.
Detaching is sad and scary to me, but better than staying on the roller coaster. You can only take that for so long when you have no control over the choices. You can be sure that he is appreciating the space you are giving him, if nothing else.
I think that these are wise words from Irish - I must keep revisiting them in my bid to be dark.
Hi Nell
I also believe that a dead body in dreams is a sign of new beginnings.
I don't appear to remember any of my dreams of late, I know we do dream each night, but for the past month I cannot remember or recall having any dreams.
Obviously your sub conscious mind is working very hard at night time my friend. If you are really interested in dream interpretation there are a lot of books about it that you would find in the library.
Thanks Oz - I am a firm subscriber in listening to what your body is telling you and whilst I find the subject interesting, I'm not all out for it but I appreciate your kind thought!!
These two dreams are the only ones that I can remember in the past 3 months, since the bomb, and so that may be why they are so interesting to me now.
Just thinking this morning that I should perhaps give up and listen to what H is telling me. He's not interested. There's been nothing from him and I keep thinking of all the warning signs over the years that neither of us paid any heed to.
I can see why he has gone (50-50 blame however - his 50% being the catalyst to my reactivity) and although I have been accusing him of PA, I know that he did nothing about that prior to dropping the bomb. Maybe I should just listen to a man who is desperate and not at all in MLC (??) - maybe I should be just gathering up, moving out (when I have work) and becoming self-sufficient - letting go and let him have the life that he so obviously yearns for.
Maybe he really does not love me any more and I just need to accept that. He's a genuine and honest man - why am I doubting him, his words or his actions???
oh ... and he keeps telling me how lucky we are to have had a successful marriage make it last that long, with statistics being the way that they stand. Who cares?? It's not a successful M in my book when all I am left with is a WAH.
Nell only you can decide if you want to give up or not, but I think if you really want the M to work then you have to give it a bit longer than you have been. Hard I know but at least then you can say you gave it your all.
PS: I am not really a dream person either but I do find those sorts of things interesting.
You are right Oz - I don't want to give up but I am now listening to my body/emotions and wondering if I am not just making things worse for myself by hanging on for something that plain ain't gonna happen. I have faith but it's hiding right now.
When I first met with C, she said that she was hopeful and felt that H and I could make this work. Yesterday, she said "H seems to have made a firm decision" - which just keeps replaying over in my mind.
I feel sad again today. Just broke my favourite colander too so thinking that it's not just my emotional world falling apart but this is the start of everything falling apart, which I know is nonsense, really. Feeling very sorry for myself today and someone's dog has just cr*pped on my garden which I am really angry about having to clean up.
Don't know if you have watched the TV series The Hotel Inspector? They showed a hotel last night that H and I had stayed at back home and when I saw 'our' room and the bed that we slept in, I could have wept. It was on Foxtel and I just put it on live pause and relived the time that we were there ... it was heartbreaking. These are the things that the Martians get away with - these thoughts don't go through their minds as they are logical and not emotional, by and large. Throw in some sentiment for good measure and we crack up. Just as I am now.
Now I am confused again. Just looking around for inspiration and came across this about 180's:
What is a 180.....?
A complete OPPOSITE of
your MORE OF THE SAME behaviors
your partner's stereotype of you
the things that irritate your partner about you
My H always hated that I could go a whole week without the need to speak to him, if we had a fight. I was purely trying out 'going dark' without even knowing it at the time.
This is something that he has called me on since dropping the bomb and so now I don't know what to do - should I stay dark or make some small contact, like acknowledging his email in regard to changing his email address which he sent to me a few days back?
Yes - I am starting to panic Gucci and Stuck but I am not for caving yet ... just asking what people think?
Today I am low, frightened, vulnerable, weak, ready to cave in and RAGING ... man am I RAGING?!! The cats ran for cover as I threw expletives around the kitchen whilst demanding (to who??) why has he done this to me? If he didn't love me and had not done so for as many years as he says, why did he marry me? Where is he now that I need him? Why did he want us to emigrate if he had no intention of staying in the marriage? Why is it OK to give a chance to an ow with baggage but he can't even give me the time of day after all that I have done for him? Oh yes, I'm on the runaway train to a self-hiding today. Two job refusals has done nothing to enamour me, either.
Oh yes folks, Eskimo Nell is falling down an ice hole, fast ....
Stay quiet with him for now Nell. You can do it
Also, you should make it clear to your counsellor that your intentions are to save your marriage. She should not be telling you her opinion, which is just her opinion not set in fact - unless she is able to see into the future.
Thanks ((JCJ)) - I needed that support - it seems to have been very quiet here today - belive me, I have been here all day!!
Yes, I promise that I will hang in there ... and it helps too that I have just literally got an email from H to say that he's gone back to his regular email address, after he had problems 3 days ago! Is this good that he is letting me know - he didn't have to, did he? I have not responded but maybe later tomorrow I can just flick him the response "OK - thanks" and leave it there. How would that be, even though I am supposed to be dark?? I think it's reasonable.
I have just been reading back over some of H's emails from last month and I can't believe how plausible he makes everything sound:
"The thing is I had never planned for any of this. I embarked on our marriage as a plan for life. It really does sadden me that we were not able to make it work. But the signs were there a good time ago. We have both neglected our relationship for far too long and now we have passed the point of no return. I agree, yes, that we both want very different things right now but that should not mean that we should have to torture each other fixing up what needs to be done".
Gotta say, he sounds pretty determined, right?? Well, I shall just keep the pedal to the metal and keep travelling in the same planned direction.
Shall jump over to your post now to see how you have been today! Thanks again for being there ... it means a lot.
Just remember, most of them don't even remember what they said after dropping the bomb on us. My H certainly didn't. Most of it is BS anyway. I wouldn't put yourself through the pain of reading it, you are only hurting yourself.
Hi Nell,
I have been reading about detaching and I am still not sure about totally ignoring. I thought detaching was about GAL as a strong, independent woman who is out and about and having fun and not contacting H. I understaood that LBS would respond to conversation initiated by H in a cool, calm manner without being cold and without showing affection or emotion positive or otherwise. it wouldn't need to be immediate response. I am quite confused now and therefore am reluctant to respond to your thought about replying to H's email.
Chin up!
Cas
You are undoubtedly right, oh wise woman!
It's right what a poster once said here though - and I am sooooo guilty of this. We look at everything and into everything too ... I just noticed that he had signed his email with his 'pet name' and looking back, he hasn't done that for the past 10 emails! I consider that to be quite a coup, even though it's bs on my behalf!!
Gee - talk about the scraps from their tables, eh?
For it all though, I shall go to bed happier this evening knowing that he has been in touch, albeit a one liner.
There was a horrid accident up near where his new apartment is two evenings ago and I was sick with worry. Sense finally prevailed and I knew that the police would have come knocking by now if it had been H. These are yet more of the things that consume me on a daily basis - and does he still record me as his next-of-kin as I am his only family in Australia?
I'm sure he does Nell. My H had a minor op some months ago and he had me as next of kin
Yes! I am sure that he does too ... I feel that he's gone but not quite that far away yet!
Thanks Cas!
I can tell you now from experience Nell, that he won't remember anything that he has said to you and as others have said it is complete BS what they dish out.
My H is a classic example, they don't even seem to remember what you tell them either.
It's funny Nell, you are feeling your mood going down now where I feel mine is on the way up again, so we are riding our waves just at different times and over different issues happening at any given time.
Sorry I haven't been around much today, really wanted to get the house more sorted before I go to work tomorrow, will definitely be online then all day popping in and out. I work in real estate so I am always online the whole day.
I am sure he still has you as next of kin, he wouldn't even have thought about changing any of that.
Sorry Nell I think I have missed a few posts here, will go back and read them now. Should have done that before I started writing.
Silly Oz
(((Nell))
Hi Nell
Hope your day is looking better now! I know what you mean trying to read things into their emails or answer phone messages, I did that last thursday wont make that mistake again as I was so wrong.. Its hard but I think you just have to accept that whilst he is in alien territory he will just put down or say what he wants and it doesnt mean anything, in fact I have just started imagining H as ET not only does it make me laugh but nobody understood ET much either lol. Chin up girl you will make it through this as we all have too whether we successfully turn our own ET's around or not! Lots of hugs Rabbit x
Morning Nell
Thought I would check in and see how you are going, what are your plans for today?
Hi Rabbit - nice of you to drop by.
Yes, your ET imagery made me smile - that was always one of H's favourite films, though when I mentioned it a few months back, he denied that was the case! Ha! Typical of everything we say ... aliens - gotta luv 'em!!
Have left you a longer post on your thread so hope that makes sense in regard to you contacting H and how you handle that.
(((Rabbit)))
Hi Oz
Well, not quite sure how I am travelling today. Not as bad as yesterday, I don't think but don't know what's made that any different as I have been holed up here for the past few days and made no effort to go out or even do anything. I have loafed about in my jim-jams and played Harrod's Doorman to the moggies who are in and out, incessantly - it's their attempt at getting me some exercise, I think!
Despite being on Dark Day Seven, I have decided that to answer H's email is probably a sensible thing, after reading lots of comments about detaching. Will leave it until this afternoon though as it will be almost 48hrs since he let me know he's back on his old email address. I shall just reply "OK - thanks" and leave it at that. The temptation to ask when he is coming around or can we have a phone call is immense but I shall not succomb.
I guess that underneath my tough Cancerian Crabby exterior, I am lurking the thoughts of when it is that H is going for his vacation - I also can't imagine why he told me about it, other than to know that it would get me fired up, as it has, although I have not shown him that. It's a selfish act to tell someone this information when he knows that I don't have two cents to scratch myself with. Still, I have checked and the money that I forwarded toward the mortgage this month has now hit our joint account, so I am hoping that he makes up the difference. If he does not, that's when we could really run in to trouble. H's money is due into the joint account within four days but my persoanl account is now totally cleaned out.
No plans for today - can't be bothered and so will continue to allow myself to mope in an upbeat kind of way! I have refocused for tomorrow though and I shall go out and weed'n'feed the lawns, feed the plants, do a genreal tidy up in the front and side gardens (to enhance what I did earlier in the week) and then go to the accountant in the afternoon to get my tax return lodged. This is the big 180 that H will not be expecting! I'm sure that he is still waiting on the call for me begging him to do it soon, as the end of the month cut off demands and he knows that I was very concerned about.
Last night, I felt that H was not here as he is on an extended work trip and he would be home soon. I found myself telling the cats "don't worry, Daddy will be home in a while - we just need to let him have some space right now - let's all say Goodnight Daddy - we love you" ... and then I sighed at my stupidity. I can only cope for short bursts and then I slide down the greasy pole again ... fast.
It is okay to have a mopey day in your jim jams now again, just don't let it become a habit.
Remember as I told Cas, a very wise lovely lady here told me that you must show control but don't be difficult so yes you should answer the email this afternoon. Your answer is sufficient, to the point and business like.
Definitely go and get your tax done, because you will get your refund in 14 days and you could use the cash. I have to do mine as well but I am always the one that has organised both of our returns at the accountant.
I am a Cancerian too, my birthday is in June.
Wise words Oz ... and so they would be from a fellow Cancerian!! I am July.
Anniversaries are my next big worry ... WA is on 11th and I am already in panic mode in case H does as he did on my birthday and ignores it ... I am quite resolved (as a 180) not to send him any greeting on the day, though it seriously will kill me inside. I'm sure that his parents are also wondering what to do -they have NEVER missed out on sending us a card.
Any thoughts on how to prepare/deal with that, just so that I can start to get myself ready ... anybody?? I have a sneaking suspicion that he will use that weekend to go on his planned trip ... I don't know why I think that but I just do. Paranoia yet again!
OOOOOhh that's a tough question.
I can't answer that one in any way shape or form but will be interested to see what the wise ones here have to say as ours will be coming up in November and I too will be wondering what to do, how to handle it etc etc.
Morning Nell
Thanks for trying to work through all posts this morning I have just left a last one and would appreciate a reply before I make any more faux pas!
As for you well if you are still moping jump up and do something! bearing in mind I havent a clue what time it is in Oz..
Your cats sounds like my little girly, she even expects me to lift the cat flap up for her if Im in the utility room, she is such a little princess! I keep telling her that daddy will come home when he gets a brain again lol.
Will be thinking of you, isnt the internet marvelous even though we are all in different countries in the same boat we can still have friends any where in the world
Chin up Nell
xx
Hi Nell, with regards to your anniversary be prepared for nothing to happen from your h. Michele says to let them go in DR. Why don't you plan something special for yourself that day. Sitting at home on your anniversary would probably be the worst thing you could do! JMO
Good morning to you - and I so hear you, Rabbit! Hope that you have all of my answers now - I did them in batches! As I said, take what you want, throw away the rest but it's all based on stuff that's been said to me by the experts - I am not there yet - far from it.
Thanks for being concerned about me - it's the one thing that even newbies do well here! BTW - where I am in Oz (there are numerous time zones) but here in the Western zone, we are currently 7 hours ahead of you, so it's almost my bed time - yeah sad isn't it - not even 6pm yet!
Oh - LOLz - are our cats related?? My Princess also makes me lift the cat flap for her and like the idiot I am, I do it! Our cat flap is in the fly screen and if she's not in the mood to make herself pass through plastic (far too common) then I have to open the door for her entrance and exit! She's sat on H's computer chair right next to me at the moment. She has been having email lessons recently, after having posted something off that I was working on but she thought was comlete! She also manages to send texts that I am in the middle of by nudging me before I am ready. Needless to say, I don't email or text H when she is around for fear she would not embrace the concept of short, blunt and mysterious!!
Too right - the internet is a magical invention .. had I known you in June, I would have visited when I was home in the UK for a month! We could have had coffee in Oxford. Lovely. Still, here we are and we can make the most of it.
Now, how did you go with my blunt messages??
Hey Nell, It's morning here and I believe you may be in bed by the time I post this. I hope it helps you when you wake ..
“Finish each day and be done with it. You have done what you could. Some blunders and absurdities no doubt crept in, forget them as soon as you can. Tomorrow is a new day, you shall begin it well and serenely...”
Okay now we know what to do about our anniversaries.
Our cat does the same thing with emails as she decides that she is more important, so she sits on the computer to stop you doing anything. But you can't get angry can you they are so full of love for us all you want to do is cuddle them.
I love the internet now, never used to use it much but it has opened up a whole new world of great friends.
Totally agree with you JCJ - I must plan something nice for ME on our 16th Anniversary. I am almost positive that he will let it go by without a word. Isn't it sad?
Just looking in a book to see what the traditional anniversary present is for the 16th year and came across photo's of our Engagement and Wedding ... gee, looking in to H's face, I can not and now DO NOT believe a word that he said in re-writing our history. I just want to get those photo's and smack his face with them, just to remind him how much in love we were!
Hey Shane
No, I'm still up. It's 18.30hrs here ... whatever that makes it with you.
Thank you for the quote (((Shane))) - I know that it was meant for the morning but it equally helps to go to bed on those thoughts. I will read it again in the morning, too. Bless you.
Have the best day that you can have
Yes, JCJ confirmed what I was thinking - make the day about ME alone!
I agree that the internet has opened up the world ... trouble is, it's caused lots of unhappy people too because the world is so readily available in your living room! Good and bad but for us and this purpose, WONDERFUL!
You would have loved it here last night .. left arm cutching old cat, right arm cutching younger cat - me in the middle and all fighting for more room in bed! They know when we are sad and they do the best they can. What more innocent love could you get, than from your pets? They ask for nothing other than food and love - but give back 1,000 fold in my book. Thank God for them.
Forgot to post the interpretation from last nights snowy dream ... can't remember it all in detail but it was there - and this is an amazing coincidence, if such is not to be believed in!
Snow:
1. Dreaming of snow is for the most part a very hopeful symbol. Dreaming of a storm, or of deep snowdrifts, implies that hard work lies ahead, but the rewards will be worth it.
2. Snow in the springtime is an attention-getter, emphasizing that something wonderful and surprising, usually financial gain, is just over the horizon
3. Respectively, snow in summer, autumn, and winter indicate success in business, unexpected happiness, and minor difficulties in a situation that nonetheless ends well.
4. Snow on mountaintops augurs good news - and the relief such news brings.
Snow symbolize chilled and unexpressed emotions or emotions which have been repressed for an extended period of time. The snow in your dream suggests that you or someone else is emotionally cold, unresponsive, and indifferent. Clean, white snow may represent innocence, truth, peace and relaxation. Virgin snow, as you may see it covering a beautiful landscape, may represent new beginnings or a new way of seeing things and dirty snow may represent guilt.
Hi Eskimo,
I havent been around for awhile but was here today and read your post. I just wanted to reply that I did actually say what you hope to say to your STBX. I know he heard me but was not interested in my revelation and it did not appear to provoke any thinking on his part. I felt I said what was on my heart, but wonder if it hurt me in the long run. We are still separated with no glimmer of hope at reconciling at this point. I'm holding on though. It's best for me to stay dark except when we have to talk about the kids. My STBX is a pretty tough nut to crack!
Hi
EN listen to JCJ make the day about you. It was a happy day wasn't it? the fact that the M is on shaky ground shouldn't detract from that.
Make this year's happy day too, but make it about you!
We haven't heard much about you GAL activities or job search. How's it going?
Posted today in the MLC thread... thought this might be helpful. GG is worried about an up-coming significant day, this is JTB's answer.
Any thoughts?
Yeah...
When I was a kid, my parents used to take me and drive out to my grandparents house for a big family bash and picnic, but I guess that's not going to happen this Labor Day....so I guess I could be upset with my parents.
Look Golf, That is 3 days away and it is already making you sad...wait...sorry...YOU are making you sad you are allowing it.
Do SOMETHING. Get your mind off of this 'memory' day. Go someplace new find a new resturant. Hike a mountain, check out the Tea Store in Boulder, or Lucilles for lunch.
Quote:
Okay, so I guess having expectations just means I'll be disappointed when they don't happen?
Partially right.
When your dissappointed or hurt...it is really hard to keep it out of your next interaction with him.
Get rid of your expectations and get rid of your reactions. Like guilt, anger, woe is me sorrow.
And yeah you're also not dissappointed.
This is something you control...so control it.
(((Nell)))
Morning Nell,
I am up extra early this morning, H had to go early and collect his ski from the old house, it will no longer be ours at 11.30am.
I know it will be hard, but yes definitely make the day about yourself, start planning the day now, so you have time to work out what you would like to do, maybe a trip into the city for a really nice lunch and some window shopping, anything that will keep you occupied for a good part of the day. Remember we will all be here for you that day. So dwell on H not being there, look forward to a day of treats for you.
(((Nell)))
Hey Nell... I wrote you a reply on my sitch.
I found a site in which I thought could be of some use to you. It is for me. I've read it several times and I believe it with the many helpful posts on this site we can overcome all obstacles which lay before us. Remember, "We can easily manage if we will only take, each day, the burden appointed to it. But the load will be too heavy for us if we carry yesterday's burden over again today, and then add the burden of the morrow before we are required to bear it."
http://www.midlifecrisismarriageadvocate.com/balancing-love-tightrope.html
Thanks for that Scrappy - maybe best to rethink that plan then!
Good luck with your sitch.
Thanks Bonny - hadn't considered it from that perspective but you are right and so I have just decided that to go have my hair remodelled for the day, might just be the tonic that I will need ... let's have gin with that!!
No GAL'ing, I'm afraid. Not finding anything that rings my bell and the money situation is getting worse by the day. Nothing on the job front, despite casting my net very much wider. The ship is sinking fast and no word from H on my Dark Day 8.
PMA for today ... book the hair appointment, go sort my tax this afternoon, come home and weed'n'feed the garden. Paid $7 yesterday for a real treat ... had my wheely bin cleaned professionally, rather than hose it out for myself! Phew, I'm living the high life here ...
(((JCJ))) - thanks for that. It's kind of what I have been working on and the fact that H ignored my July birthday has kind of already set me up for the disappointment that I know I stand to face on 11th, so in a way, I'm ready for it.
I just think that it will be incredibly sad, whatever ... as the years have gone on, you remember your Special Day but it's never the same as the actual event. However, H has always been here and we look at our piccies and often relive bits of the day ... look back at the guests and say "he's dead now" or "they are D" - never thought that we would be adding to that list. Such is life, I guess. But hey, we are not there yet so why am I even saying that - PMA right??!!
Oh Oz - a tough day for you but not as tough as those you have just come through (((hug))). Just keep thinking, as you posted recently, the townhouse is filled with a better vibe than your old house ... it knew about the bad memories whilst the new place is about to get some great ones thrust in its path!
Think that I have now decided that to get my hair re-modelled may be the way to go ... a new face staring back from the mirror and saying GAL!!!! I have been with this particular coiff for too many years - time for a change!
How true is that, Shane?? Wise words.
Thanks for the link ... I shall go read ....
That's great Nell, I always find that when you have your hair done you instantly feel like a different person, much happier.
I had mine short for many years and have just finished growing it long again. H said he preferred it short, so I kept it long, once I would have cut it to make him happy, but not anymore. New Oz and NEW NELL.
You will find changing your style will give you a real boost to your confidence. When will you get it done?
You will have to tell us what it is like.
(((Nell)))
I think that it's a good idea too! Why have we always pandered to the men on these things?!! New Oz - New Nell indeed.
Just thinking when to get hair done. Was all for on the anniversary a week Friday but may be a bit too long away ... can't decide. Can't decide on much at all right now - even like what time to have my shower this morning! I am in jim-jam mode again but have to get up and about as I have the tax thing to do this arvo.
I just feel like I'm going downward fast in to the vortex that has started to grip me tighter. It's a weird feeling really - the Dark Days have taken away many of my bad thoughts but I am overcome now with this over-whelming sadness and the fact that I feel it's all over ... H is NOT affected by my silence. He didn't respond in any way to my 3 word email yesterday and I guess that now he has had evidence that I am still breathing, that's enough for him.
I can't keep on livnig this way. I'm feeling my isolation more each day and I'm almost not bothered about coming here any more either ... it's literally all that I do ... there is nothing else but it's also how I am living my life ... my problems and other people's problems ... is this the new norm?? I can't let it be that way but I can't break free of it either as I just need something to happen to show me that what I am doing is right.
My positivity (on the times that I have shown it) is all a sham. It's a front. It's not me or how I am feeling. I just want to run to my H and drag him back here, kicking and screaming and make him listen to what I have to say. I know that it would get me nowhere but I feel like I am about to explode. I want to cry and I can't ... the tears refuse to come. This is my brick wall. I know that if I break it down, I will no longer be in any sort of control and yet back to square one. I am here alone, I have to look after myself. I can not fall apart ... yet the pent up emotion is destructive.
Oh Nell,when I first arrived at the site, all I did was sit here every minute of the day constantly refreshing and refreshing the screen. It is just a shame that you appear to be so far from anything in the way of shopping centres and other things as it would help you immensely.
I know it is a pain and the drive is long but have you considered setting aside a couple of days during the week to go into town, even if it is just for coffee and a wander around shops, that way you are out and about around people.
I wouldn't wait to get your hair done, I would do that as soon as you are able and plan some other treats for yourself on that date, treat yourself to lunch and a movie (yes you can go alone, I have done it and I survived).
((((Nell))))
Thanks Oz - I've lifted my funk ... a little.
I'm out of my jimjams and the shower ... best perfume on (secondary to the one that I smashed last week) and I have just put down the phone from making my hair appointment for on my A. I am considering it as H's gift to me ... as I know that there will be nothing else. I have that to look forward to. If he's speaking to me by then, I shall thank him for it!
I am dressed and now going to nip to the supermarket to get some essentials. I may see one of my new friends, as she works there, so that would be a bonus but I hate to bother her when she is at work. (Actually, she always calls me, if she spots me)!
My babies are close by today ... they feel the funk and have abandoned their day at play to be beside me. What more can anyone ask for?
OK - will check in again later but off to do a few things that I have neglected whilst in funk-mode over the past few days.
Thanks for being there!
Good for you Nell, talk later then.
Ha! Talk about what we sow we reap! Just back from the store, met up with the friend and we had coffee as it was her lunch break - yes, she spotted me!
Went back in to the store after that and got my essentials ... cell phone rings and I am told that I have an interview at 10am tomorrow! I'm really laughing at this as yesterday I was so cross with the agent that I told her to withdraw my name - seems that getting tough has got me somewhere! Would that have happened if I had stayed moping around the house? Maybe, but maybe not. So, I learn that if we want things to happen, we have to act ... !
My #2 cat just acted - I went to let #1 cat in from the garden and #2 took her chance to lick the squirty cream from my fresh fruit salad on my desk!! I couldn't be cross with her - she's so cute and that's the first time she has ever done anything bad like that before!! These are the moments I want to ring H and tell him how funny it was .... but of course, I do not. He is missing out.
Bought some product for the lawn but can't go work that magic now as the rain is due any time. Also, not much time before I go see the tax accountant but it will fill my afternoon after I get back from the interview tomorrow.
Interestingly, interview is about 10 minutes drive from H's work and, with it being a Friday, the temptation to ring him to meet for coffee (as we often did) is quite large. Should I hold out or would this be seen as a good move as I am there off the back of an interview? I don't think that I shall though ... if he can't/won't meet with me, that would set me up for an awful weekend. Perhaps I shall remain dark and not undo all of my good work. Temptation is overwhelming though. Any thoughts ... ?
I am so happy for you Nell getting an interview, I will keep my fingers crossed for you, it is fantastic news.
Pets are funny our dog does things like that, as soon as you leave something unattended for even a second, it's gone.
I personally wouldn't undo your good work on being dark but on the other hand it is a good chance to have some contact so he can see how good you look and how well you are.
This is my thoughts but as I am not "dark" I don't know the consequences of making contact first, so will leave this one to the experts.
I understand though how tempting it would be though.
I am so excited for you Nell ((((((Nell))))
Aaaw, thanks Oz! I'm not holding out too much hope and it's apparently a 3 month temp position with a view to being permanent. 30hr/week injury management for Coles.
Would be great if I could get it. May take a load of pressure off me and H ... I wonder how much that would change life, if at all??
Yeah, don't know what to do about contacting him ... kind of in this groove now and I want to make a point. I stand to lose a lot if it backfires and only 3/4hr of 'us' time if I succeed. Maybe on that basis, I shall leave well alone and wait it out - then I may get an evening out of it!! If I get the job, there will be plenty of opportunity in the future ... !
That would be a great job Nell, but just remember it is to take pressure of YOU not your H. We are thinking of Nell now remember, no one else, JUST NELL AND ONLY NELL and of course your princesses.
Hopefully some of the wise ones will advise you on the contacting point later on once they all either get up or get home from work.
I know - you just can't help bringing them in to everything - it's a hard habit to drop.
Just considering flicking H an email about the lawns - he was supposed to be coming up with instructions on the special lawn food which is a bit of a science because of the type of grass that we have. He was keen that it doesn't die as it cost such a heap to put down. Grass is getting more white by the day and I am concerned about it. Do I just flick him his previous email about the lawns and say 'grass is white' or do I just leave well alone .... ? He won't have remembered this and it's a big deal, as far as I am concerned. It's a lot of money to replace ...
Out the door now ... tax calls.
Thanks Stuck ... you know that I am desperately hanging out but seems like the only person I am hurting right now is me. When is this going to end?? Dark Day 8 and nothing ....
Been to the tax accountant and feel good about my refund! Now considering the outcome of that:
1) Do I tell H and declare everything - which I know will really be a bad move as he will make me pay 1/2 the outgoings next month and the month after until all my money is gone
2) Do I go buy myself a new laptop, which would really make ME feel better but I wouldn't be able to import all my stuff from my PC as I don't know how to do it!! Also need to get car serviced.
3) Tuck my money away for a 'rainy day'?
4) Go back to the UK and get the ball rolling on D'ing H ... regardless of how 'disadvantaged' he is due to my actions. (Evidently, don't really want to do this but it may give him the shock of his life - it would be a BIG LRT).
Mmm, as always, I have spent this refund 1000 times over!!
Don't contact. Hold the line here. Bottom line. Chasing a man and pursuing a man who shows they don't want you doesn't work.
What works is to let him come to you and having enough self esteem to hold out until he does.
Hold tight.
Thanks Gucci .... I'm hanging!
Hi Nell
So pleased to hear you dug yourself out of your funk today.. I know how hard it is not ring up and tell H about the funny things the cat did, or how you got an interview (blooming well done hope it goes well) I got to chat to H last night and it was torturous keeping my mouth shut but I managed to stay strong, after all our H's have chosen to go and be where they are right now and chosen not to be in our lives so its basically none of their business. Stay strong Nell you can do this and as someone else said this is now all about you, so enjoy having your hair cut, have something funky, cute and sassy so every time you look in the mirror you think H your loss is my gain.. Off to check my posts but will pop by later..
Nell, do not contact h yet. Honestly 8 days is nothing! And anyway, he has contacted you in that time - the emails about change of address. See you are in his thoughts!
Why don't you surprise h and pay half the bills yourself anyway? H and I always paid half.
OK JCJ - I'm resolved to sticking it out with my silence ... I've got nothing to lose. He has to contact me sooner or later, I guess! Yes, I hadn't considered that he must be thinking about me to let me know about his email addresses ... quite right
Small fries, but fries none the less!!
I have paid more than half the bills in August and what I can afford now for September. That wipes me out. I plan to keep the tax refund quiet as I really HAVE to have a safety net. If he does pull back on his financial support, at least I could use the money to hot foot to the UK as a LAST RESORT.
If I can secure a job in the meanwhile, I would go back to paying 50-50 as we always have. I'm not trying to screw him over but I resent that he is keeping me on a shoe string whilst he is using his excesses to have a holiday with ow and fly interstate to meet up with her. Not quite equitable in my book.
Yeah, I do see your point but so long as the bills are being paid that is the main thing.
So... what's this about a new hairstyle??
Thanks Rabbit ... yes, I'm gonna start looking at some different styles which might suit. Will do that when I get back from interview tomorrow. I just hope that it goes my way this time but it's a hard market to break in to out here ... such is my speciality.
You are right about it being none of their business when they have chosen to walk away. I feel sorry for H that he is not getting to enjoy the cats - he made a big fuss of them last time he was here and played 'ping-pong' balls with them ... they loved it! I really think that they miss him too.
Well done you on keeping your mouth shut last night! As you say, it's torture at times but right now, I would give anything to have the opportunity of practising that skill. Ah well, my day will come. Just can't help that he is moving on with his life as each day ticks past ...
Yes! New style - new me! H ignored my birthday and I know that he will ignore our WA so I have made an appointment for the day and boy oh boy, is he paying that bill!!!!
I love messing with my hair it is so much fun. At the moment it is longish blonde, I am trying to grow it but I am thinking after travelling I might do darker (perhaps maybe redder?) for winter and maybe cut a lot of the length off. My natural is kind of mousey - however my eyebrows and eyelashes are blonde so I always get my eyelashes tinted for extra batting effect
. In fact I am going this lunchtime. I recommend it, it means you don't have to wear make up and your eyes look extra sexy
What are you thinking of doing with yours hair?
I have to say, fussing with my hair has never been a strong point. I'm a bit of a tom boy and so don't go in much for the girlie stuff ... maybe now I should!
Hair is shoulder-length bob-type style currently. Light brown with greys that I mostly get on top of every six weeks or so! Have had my eyelashes tinted in the past but as mine are so dark, it never makes any dramatic effect.
Not sure what to do with my hair this time ... maybe lots of layers, slightly shorter, sassy (as Rabbit says) would be what I am thinking ... has to be age-flattering, easy style and no fuss whatsoever but look stunning as soon as I want it too. Quite like the bed-head look.
Oooh, that sounds really cool, I love it
how exciting. I love the bed head look. Layers are always sassy. What about colour?
I have to say I was a tomboy too but now am really enjoying being girly. It is lots of fun.
See I knew we were meant to be mates, we must have been sisters in another life.. another tomboy here too.. but actually having started taking care of myself a bit more Im starting to enjoy it. H used to moan my night cream stunk, now I slap it on thinking tough Im looking after myself.. My hair is thick and curly and if I let it get too thick I resemble a demented wombat lol. So I have grown it a bit longer and no matter what I use the hair dryer to smooth it out or make it curl properly so it looks nice, dead handy the curls when it needs recolouring as you cant see the tide mark. If your hair is already in a good bob shape maybe get some more layers put in and get flicky bits at the side/front and bottom, that is great for sassy looking, always make sure you look good when you leave the front door you never know who knows who that might report back to H that they saw you "looking good" Also a tip I got from one of the posts was from the flylady website and she said the first thing to do was to get up and make yourself look, as when you feel good it helps combat the down feelings, and when you answer the phone/email/door looking good it will project your feel good attitude to whomever you are connecting with (ooops sorry gone all american) lol Will catch up later have a good day x
Great validation! Colour ... mmm, probably stay as I am. Have experimented over the years and this is about me. It matches my eyebrows too, so that's a bonus!
When does your friend arrive ((JCJ))??
We are all sisters here Rabbit!
I think that as a matter of pure self respect that we should look after ourselves. It's our given right and almost expected by the opposite sex!
I think that flylady is quite right - I have seen her website and I thought it quite a hoot! It does make you feel better to get up and get dressed. I know that when I was staying with my sister I almost felt 'forced' to do so, even though she was quite OK with me holing up in my room for a few days at a time! On the days that I did conform, I felt much better. Once you are up and dressed, you are more likely to go out looking for things to do.
So, on that note, as I am still dressed, I am bidding you all a good night as I have had a last minute invite to a cuppa with a neighbour! Not turning that down so I will check in on you all tomorrow.
For those in the UK, have a great day; those in the US and anywhere else - I guess the same; and those in Australia with me, onya mates,!
Hi Nell
There are some sites if you google them, if you upload your photo you can try different styles.
Stay strong on the no contact I know you can do it.
((((Nell)))
Oz
Thanks Oz! I shall take a look.
Hey Nell,
Keep up the no contact. Don't contact H. Good luck with the interview.
Cas
I've lost my journal for Dark Day Nine - anyone seen it??? I definitely wrote it and I'm sure that I saw it here ... freaky!
Hi Nell
How are you today, I have been away from home a bit today, got my hair done, got rid of the nasty greys that keep coming back.
How was your interview?????
Oz
Nell, just checking in to see how the interview went
Journaling for the second time today, as the last one got lost!
Dark Day Nine
Woke up feeling sick. Not interview nervous sick, just plain sick in my stomach - I've really had more than my fill, enough already - type sick. Think that I was dreaming H had returned home and I got that good old pull on the solar plexus that brought me to concious life from my dream world. "Right, I've had more than enough - he needs to get home now". It's become my mantra, instead of the PMA stuff that I should be reciting.
I'm just at that stage where I don't think that I am getting anywhere and to give up now and LRT him would be a final execution of the rot that is starting to fester within me on a grand scale. All he has to say is "I'm coming home" and I would be back to normal - only the new me that I have found recently, would be here to stay - with my H - we could be a family again ... three little words to change someone's life around ... not much to ask, is it??
My interview, I think, was a bit of a formality. They asked me one question and I was in there for 10 minutes - the most lax interview I have had in many a day. It all sounded like they were ready to offer me the temp post but who knows?? Let the agent figure it out - I have bigger fish to fry. Oh - they have just rung for my references so it's not looking bad! With this kind of news ordinarily, I would now be on the phone to H and he would be saying "well done - fingers crossed now for the next phone call" .... that's what he would be saying if only I could call him.
Came home from my interview and took to the gardens for some physical workout again. The back lawn got some soil wetter granules whilst the front and side lawns were treated to weed'n'feed and then the grass trees had the hair cut that they have been waiting for over the last two years .. both look like pineapples on speed now! As our retic ban is still on, I hand watered the gardens too - that was a BIG job and now my back aches. I'm physically tired ... my hands are aching, I've got 'secater finger' and I just want to fall down to my knees and cry.
Why am I having to do all of this stuff alone whilst H is probably gearing up for a fun weekend of ... well, whatever it is he's got planned. No responsibilities, no house, no pets and no wife to have to deal with ... oh, I really could be very sick. Why can't I cry??? I need to ... oh, so very much. He's getting off scott free and I can't go on like this for much longer. I really am at breaking point.
good news on the job front. Having a job will give you focus and greater independence.
I can so relate to your last paragraph. I definitely went through all of that Nell, especially as H walked away from the kids. The down side for me was that I tried to rescue the situation. That did absolutely nothing for me emotionally. I think eventhough this is incredibly painful right now it is the preferred option. I have invested so much time and emotion and I'm really not any further along!
H just came by the house and was talking to S. I heard his voice but sat quietly in the study.
So, what will you do for you tonight Nell?
Cas
Do you really think so Cas - is this really the lesser of the two evils?? What is wrong with these men that they can treat the women who they have loved so very shabbily?? I could not treat my worst enemy this way ... but in fairness to H, he has never been dumped, never been on his own and can NOT understand why I am as upset as I am ... he doesn't have the first idea of how this feels - or to be alone. Totally and utterly alone.
You did well to stay in the study ... did your H not come speak at all?
Tonight is me time - again! Too tired to think of anything other than falling in to bed with the two babies wrapped up warm and cosily by my side. Going to try to get out a bit on my bike tomorrow - apparently it will rain on Sunday so make the most of it and admire my front garden as I cycle by!
What have you got going on? I doubt if you are feeling like tripping the light fantastic right now, are you?!
Oh Nell, I am certainly hearing you. I spent a lot of time trying to work out how H could love me enough to marry me (and he was the pursuer)and have children with me but then treat me so badly. I thought he must have really hated me but decided later that it was really about him and his quest for happiness. It wasn't about me at all. All he really cared about was himself.
H was at the door but did not come in. He would have thought I was at work anyway. S wouldn't have invited him in anyway! I didn't want to see him either as I'm still in my pyjamas!
I have a bbq tonight at a friend's place and I will pop over for a short visit. The rest of the weekend is free. D has some assignments so I'll help her and take it easy for the rest...try to sleep and rest to get rid of the cough...feels like my insides are popping out!!
Thanks Cas - your words are comforting ... as you know, nothing really 'helps' as no-one can go through this for me, but it does know that my feelings are real and that others have felt the same way. I often think that I am cracking up and I am the only sad sack who feels this way about their abandonment - for that's what I would prefer to call it .. not WAH but ABH (abandoned by husband - interestingly too, actual bodily harm).
Ha! I was just putting my PJ's on and I thought "this is so not the look that I want H to catch me in these days, just in case he popped by (not that he would - he has always been very circumspect in making an appointment to call) - and there's you, in your jimmies when your H drops by! Put a smile on my face if nothing else and no wonder you didn't want to see him!!
BBQ sounds great tonight ... is the weather starting to change over with you? It's perishing here in the night times but the days appear to be getting a little longer, brighter and warmer! Just don't wear yourself out now - but do have a good time!
Talk later Cas ... look after yourself.
Weather here about 22C during the day. Evenings cool but not really cold. Lovely time of year!
But that would make you a victim and you aren't - you're a strong woman, under a lot of emotional pressure yes, but not a victim.
Believe me, you couldn't be a confidant for your h, if you think you feel emotional now you wait till he starts spouting about his woes. I tried it, it doesn't work and the emotional toll on you is too great.
I know it seems counter-intuitive, but this is the best way. I did it the other way (begged, pleaded, bargained, took crumbs for 6 months) and look at the length of time in my position. It doesn't work.
There you go Nell...JCJ and I have painted the same picture ........we tell you from our own experience, it doesn't work. Work on you and you only!
Nice - much the same then!
I hear you JCJ - and I know that you are right. I just want this horrid feeling to be gone away ... now. It's so draining and I do (at the moment) feel like his victim. I'm working on that though, as you all know.
I so agree about hearing his troubles - they are his and he has to deal with them. I can't even think about it. I just want that situation over once and for good. I just can't help thinking that it gets more serious as each day goes on ... when is it going to break up?? I hate thinking that he loves the tramp more as he loves me less .... I'm being forced out so that she can take over. B*tch. How could she even want to be with a cheating husband when H says that's what caused her D in the first place ... her H couldn't keep his pants on. Why would she want to ... she's a low life anyhow - who would leave their kids to fly interstate to be with a loyal wife's H ... what a tramp - and how can my erstwhile wonderful H fall for that cr*p?? It's just not who he is. .
Nell, I hear you, I hear you. I think the same thing. Especially when my h's ow wrote on his FB wall 'back off he's mine'. I just thought really? You didn't have any respect for the fact that he was married to someone else when you got with him. Cheeky cow (because I can't say worse things!)! Also, try not to put your h on a pedestal, it was his choices too.
I know it is hard, but you know that he is having an affair but that is it. You don't know what their relationship is like? Try not to dwell. You don't aren't able to measure his feelings for her or for you. Honestly, it isn't worth your effort trying and feelings change all the time.
That's a fair perspective Julia ... I know that the rose garden has it's fair share of thorns for him but I just wish that they would grow faster!
FB has a lot to answer for, eh? I wonder exactly how many M's it has assisted in breaking up and I'm just waiting to see which of our (American!!) buddies goes to sue the owners of the site, first? Perhaps we ought to lead the way and show that it's not always our American friends who are the tough a$$es that they hold the record for being! I can't believe your H's ow did that - pity we can't really swear here, isn't it? I have some other words for FB the meaning of and they can't be repeated!!!
OK those of you who thought that I was ready to throw the towel in .. here's the thing:
I have just rung my local Uni and re-registered on the distance learning course that I jacked in when I ran back to the UK after the H-bomb dropped! Now I have plenty to do, less to moan about, more to gain and will have a higher qualification (hopefully soon) which will put me on a higher rung of the ladder in terms of career progression. My next groans will all be about too much studying! You hear me, Shane? ... how about I send YOU a plane ticket to come help me study!! Role reversal - or is that a 180?!!!
Morning Nell or should I say Afternoon!
Glad to hear the interview went well and really hope its just a formality for getting the job! Although dont get too upset if you dont hear anything today, nobody gets offered a job on a friday as every one at work is thinking about the weekend and not doing their job!
Thanks for your kind words over on my post, I was expecting a wave but was broadsided by S, going to have let what ever he says sweep over me somehow, or just keep passing like ships in the night as Im so busy GAL.
Every thing that has been said on hear about WAS is so true, my H and I also respected our wedding vows and Im sure they are what kept him here longer, if only he had just talked to me but that is quite often not mens strong points and definately not his. And what makes it all the more painful is finding DB and knowing it could be fixed after its all gone wrong, I so wish I had this book in the two and half months of hell we went through before he left.. yep me too did the "I love you and need you" bit to death unknowingly helping him back his bags mentally.
Have a lovely bath tonight Nell pamper yourself and get rid of the gardening stress, I love gardening and its been a bit help therapeutically cutting and digging out my wayward border, although I did have to get H to dig out the roots for me, but hopefully I can get S to help me with that when he is back. Like you I think Im in for the long haul of not seeing H till the end of September which will be hard but I suppose will not kill me and make me stronger. Anyway off to do something useful will pop back in later x
Yeah, I agree on FB Nell!
Yay! good for you on the course, that is brilliant!
Morning Rabbit - actually, I reckon you could get away with saying Evening to me now ... it's ten to five in the pm here!
I hope that the interview was a formality too ... thing is it's only a temp job until December for maternity cover - but sometimes those ladies don't come back, do they? I hope that would be the case, if I get lucky enough!! I hear you on the Friday thing and the one interviewer actually apologised to me for wearing jeans ... it's 'dress down Friday' in the office!
Glad that you found some kind words in what I posted to you. It's always nice to give a 'gift' to our sisters here because I really do believe that we should tell the truth about the situations - and that often comes with words which are not so nice to deliver. Means there's a good balance then.
The whole point of this board is perspective and support, so it means that we have to tell the truth as we see it and I think that most people are very good in accepting that. Not many are out to deliberately cause pain to others - we are all hurting far too much for that, otherwise we wouldn't be here, right?
Yes, your son's message was a bit out of left field for you and yet, you are now having time to prepare - for what, we don't know but if you prepare for the worst, that should be a help when the next bomb gets exploded.
You say that you wish that you had the book two and a half months before your H left ... I echo this, wholeheartedly. I recommend that all married couples buy one - and 5LL too! Like you, I also wish that my H had had more in depth talks with me before he mentally packed his bags ... he says that he did but I know that he didn't. He may have felt it was so but if it was, why was I so blindsided and devestated at the huge shock that it was?
I would love to have a good long soak in the tub Rabbit but you have evidently never seen the standard Aussie bath!! You would struggle to get a 5 year old in them! The water shortages demand that we all conserve as much water as we possibly can on a routine basis and so baths have evolved over the years in to these tiny little piddly things. You can get in and wash but nothing for a bit of pamper and luxury. For that we have hot tubs/spas but my H in his wisdom turned ours off before he left and it's now stone cold. OK, I could put it back on but it's not any where near half the enjoyment of sitting out in in on your own. I really would feel like Billy No Mates then!!
oooh no no no Nell get that hot tub going again, I cant think of nothing nicer than a whole hot tub to myself with a glass of wine and some relaxing music.. dont know about billy no mates, more a move over mates this is all billy's lol.
I know - I'm such a sook, aren't I??!!! It's a bit creepy in the garden on my own, in the dark ... semi-nekked!!
Next problem - some one please help me with this??
I have paid all the bills that are due up until now - no funds left for any more. H has not yet put any money in to the joint account and I am worried incase he does not. There are a few bills due soon and I don't know what to do now that I am dark?
H has ignored my emails about the bills and other stuff that concerns me to do with the house ... how do I tackle these issues when I am dark and he hasn't responded in over 10 days?? I can not let my bills go unpaid but I'm wondering if this is his new ploy to 'smoke me out' .... out of the darkness and also the house!
Thoughts please - it's starting to weigh heavy.
As above ... and, as I suspected, he has only put in half the money to cover all the mortgage and bills for the month. Now what do I do - I can't stay dark on this one .... ?????
Wait... don't act now. Get more advice first. I take it you cannot afford half?
Just wanted to give you a hug, as I know how sickening it feels to be paying all the bills on your own, even if its with H's money. Im sure that someone with more knowledge will answer soon, but for the minute dont panic, if anything is urgent pay the half you have and phone them and say that you are doing that. From their point of view you have paid your half albeit with H's money so it will be him they will look to for the other half. Chin up I know how its feels I had to tell someone this morning that H doesnt live here any more and to phone him on his mobile..x
It is ok to contact regarding issues like this.
BUT.... BUT.. I hope you are not justifying this as a reason to contact him. It certainly seems like you WANT to find a reason.
Can't you contact the creditors and tell THEM how to get a hold of him? Have you considered that you are enabling him to not be responsible for his part? I would think you could find some creative way to handle this without contact.
If you are bound and determined then do the contact, get to the business at hand and then end the call or email....
You seem to be in a state of panic. Get creative. I will tell you again that chasing and pursuing in any way shape or form will work AGAINST you. It will set you back to square one. Waiting him out this time was very important, but you keep bringing it up again and again. This is no time for weakness.
Your choice, but I would wait it out and find another way or put the creditors on his trail. Tell them that he is supposed to be taking care of this and how to contact him. Enabling him isn't good. Let him step up to the plate without you being his mommy.
Hi Nell
OOOOhhh I so hope you get the job, I am sure by the time December rolls around the position will become permanent and good for you on the further study, I don't have the dedication to do that kind of thing.
Just keep the positive thoughts happening about the job.
(((Nell)))
WOW Nell, what a positive GAL on furthering your studies. I'm not sure how much help I'd be though ... meez hands are a bit full at the moment. I'd sure give it a try though if you needed it .. isn't that what friends are for ..
Sorry to hear about your problems with H. I hope you can work this out with him and keep a level head. It seems you are traveling in the right direction with yourself .. don't let his actions derail that ... K I know it's hard ... you've read my sitch .. but I'm starting to learn that it isn't about my W. It's about me and how I handle the hurdles life throws at me. You will be ok. Just calmly think things thru before you contact him. Follow the others advice and do what is best for Nell. Not your H.
Love Your Friend
Shane
Fantastic news on the study Nell.
Cas
Morning Nell
What are your plans for today?
Oz
Thanks all for your advice ... Gucci, whilst I hear you and yes, I am a bit panicked, I PROMISE that this is not a ploy. I'm so pleased with my own progress (such as it is) over the past days that I really don't want to talk to H and I am so very determined (even though I have wobbles) not to contact him - I don't want to throw 10 Dark Days down the drain! I can't afford to undo all of my good work - I just need the security of him having paid the bills.
I think that I did over-react a bit yesterday. Therefore, I am resolved to wait until Monday or Tuesday and see if any more money goes in to our joint account. Looking back on the previous months, it seems that he is depositing in two sums - I think that his previous advice was that he has to do that, due to the max daily limit he can move out of his account. For all that he has done/is doing, my H is a good person and as I have explained my position, I don't think that he will let me down on this but I am also not naive enough to think that things are 'normal' right now. I guess that is what made me panic. I have to trust that he will come to the party on certain issues - he's not looking after me right now but I have no reason to believe that he would throw away his own investment, such as the house is. I know that he could not live with creditors chasing him, either!
I'm a bit calmer now ... thank you all for helping me to see sense on this one - it's so good having the security blanket wrap around me when I need it most!
Hi JCJ - good advice to wait, which I did! No, I'm not working at all right now and so only have the money which H puts in to the bank.
Hopefully, work will come soon - I have been chasing it for long enough!
Good to hear you are feeling calmer Nell. Now what's the focus for the weekend?
As an addendum to my last - actually, I don't know why I am panicking at all ... the bills are all paid by direct debit from the joint account. If he's not checking the status of the account, he will be as liable as I am and any overdue letters will come here addressed to him, as well as me. (I can't bear paying late payment charges - it's always been a hangup of mine but maybe one that I have to grit my teeth on this time around).
Perhaps I just need to sit this one out and, if the payment does not go in on Monday or Tuesday, I can drop him an email saying "please check balance of account - insufficient funds for bill payments" and leave it at that.
This should not be my issue. I'm dealing with enough of his cr*p right now!
Hey Cas - thanks for checking in.
Not really got any plans for this weekend, other than I could start on my studying!
Weather looks set to rain all weekend, so it's dark and dismal, inside and outside! I think that I shall just fly by the seat of my pants for the next two days ... I did heaps last week and, should I get the job, I may start working next week so I think that I shall just take the opportunity and hit the books!
What are your plans?
Hi Rabbit
Appreciate the hug to wake up to! This current situation is not about paying the bills myself - that's all done through the bank - but rather that H has not put in enough money for the bills to be paid.
My fear was, he threatened that he would only pay half this month and, when I saw only half the expected money deposited, I felt that he had acted out on the threat. I over-reacted and will wait to see if any more is forthcoming on Monday or Tuesday. If it's not then, I will have to rethink my plan.
Sorry that you had to tell someone that H is no longer living with you - that makes you one step further on than me! I have not had to do that yet but I know that I will struggle when that day comes. I guess it's different living in a 'new' country and no one even knows that you are here, never mind your H having left!! I don't think that the neighbours have even noticed.
So hope that you are right Oz!!
Yes, my hopes are positive for good news re the job on Monday or Tuesday. It would be a good thing for me right now and would take some pressure off us both in regard the bills. H is angry at having to pay my half too - but he was doing that when he was here! It is HIS choice to have moved out and to have a secondary lifestyle to support so why does that become my problem all of a sudden?? It's him that needs to get his head around that and stop pressuring me.
What have you got lined up for the weekend - apart from getting ready for the fashion parade?!!
Really bored and lonely today.
Feeling like this is all hopeless and I should just give in.
Despite all my DB'ing efforts, H is behaving like he has already gotten himself a new life and he is long gone. Going dark is having no affect on him, whatsoever. I could be dead for all he knows or cares.
I am just NOT coping.
Feeling like this is all hopeless and I should just give in.
Can you describe specifically what that would entail?
Probably packing up my life here in Australia and going 'home' ... I have nothing here, can't even get a job and no-one to be able to help carry my burden. I'm just not getting stronger ... I'm one step forward and four steps back.
Feeling very sorry for myself today :o(
I am starting to believe that the sooner one does move on and take care of him/her self, the sooner a real resolution is possible.
6 years ago my H left, had a fling and came back 5 weeks later. Of course, I was elated. But, the bug up his butt to leave and lead this other life was never really exorcised and as much as I sometimes wish he'd snap out of it and be my white knight, more realistically, I realize that he has to live this out, whatever it is and have a genuine catharsis if there is any hope.
So, my point is, you need to take care of yourself and your immediate needs first. Time and distance will not stop a reconciliation if it is meant to be (I know that sounds trite but I do believe it).
I'm sorry it is so hard. Believe me, I've been turned inside out and watching my kids suffer on top of it. But, focusing on myself and the life I want to lead has done wonders. You are not a victim. Life is short, what can you do to start feeling that you are truly living and not just a bit player in his warped story.
One of the most helpful things I've read here is the following quote-
“This is a very important lesson. You must never confuse faith that you will prevail in the end — which you can never afford to lose — with the discipline to confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.”
Thanks AAK - I appreciate your support.
I understand that I am just in a down trough at the moment but boy, its a hard one this weekend. I've been on the roller coaster for a while now but this is the bit that has started to become nauseous and I just want to get off. I think that because I have no family and limited 'new' friends here, whom I only see infrequently, it makes life harder. Each of us has that extra burden on top of the situation, which exacerbates it that bit more. For some, they worry about their kids and how they are being affected, for me, it's the worry of my isolation and no job.
I appreciate your stopping by and giving me some words of comfort and reminding me that I must keep the faith.
Well, I've got the kids + no job.
What are you passionate about? Any prospects that excite you career-wise? Or otherwise for that matter?
Time to try to find the silver lining which is that you are about to reinvent yourself and write the rest of your story...
I know it sucks but there can be joy and enthusiasm when you are ready.
I think that you have hit the nail on the head there ... it's all about when people are ready.
I do have a career but my speciality prevents me from working here where my skills are not very recognised. Never been a one to go out exploring things that I can get involved in ... all my passions are BIG and beyond my reach at the moment. I have always wanted to go work with the Polar Bear researchers in Churchill, Manitoba after visiting there a few years back. Love wildlife of any sort but it's not relevant on a day to day basis for 'ordinary' folk.
I just think that this would be a good bit easier if I had social support networks ... I've never needed anyone other than my WAH but now I am really feeling the pinch. Being Dark is not helping ... up until 10 days ago, at least I had some contact with him on a regular basis - now nothing. I think that my reserve tanks have run dry. I am just in pure emotional melt-down.... plus it's the dreaded weekend.
Come Monday, I will force myself back in to something other than this funk.
Oh, come on. Don't wait until Monday...please. You love wildlife? You have time on the weekend and not enough friends? Volunteer...you'll do great work, meet interesting and like-minded people. Please don't wait. Life is short.
Plus, you having a full life is far more attractive to WAH or other people for that matter.
It is so inspiring to read about the interests of people on here...we don't talk about it enough (obviously that is not why we're here) but that is the way out of this hell; cultivate your passions.
I know that you are right! I'm just lacking motivation and enthusiasm right now. I feel like I've been kicked around this week (emotionally) and I'm going through a lot of confusion (aren't we all)?!
Time to lick my wounds and get back up on the horse - waiting on the outcome of a job interview too, so that would really help such a lot.
Just feel like I could be all things to all people right now and WAH would never even see it ... he's gone dark too and each day feels like he's been gone an extra month.
Well, I certainly relate.
He may or may not notice. It sucks but that is the truth. But, in the mean time, you will create a life you love...
Maybe you can make a short list of things you can do this weekend to be productive...I feel so gratified when I knock things off my list.
Again, you are right AAK. I did a heap of stuff yesterday but I think that I overdid it, if anything. I am suffering the effects of my lack of fitness now in all things gardening and I am shuffling around here like an old lady ... complete with stress induced headache and nausea.
I know that H will be around some time soon - it just follows who he is. He won't let my silence go on forever ... we have so much to talk about that he will have to speak eventually and, he sent me a 'fun' video email on Thursday so that's the first 'nice' thing he's done in ages - apart from helping me with my car last week!
It feels like for every nice contact we have (which has only been two lately), he then has to hand out a 'punishment' to punctuate that he still feels the same.
I am suffering the effects of my lack of fitness now
Without exercise, I would have had to have been committed...are you exercising? Getting in shape?
It feels like for every nice contact we have (which has only been two lately), he then has to hand out a 'punishment' to punctuate that he still feels the same.
Yep, trust me, a lot of contact sucks too. H and I are in constant contact and up until just yesterday, any positive contact was followed by negative because he was so committed to his idea of being "done" and the positive interactions confused and pissed him off. The only reason why last night was ok is because I am living my own life and have no expectations. But it felt like a waste of my time.
I lost so much weight and had panic attacks for months. I still wake up so twisted and sweaty...but I get up and do my day and do it with hope and a good attitude. You keep going.
Yes AAK - I too have lost heaps of weight (not a bad thing) - gone down three dress sizes but mostly because I was not eating and just pining away. I am eating again but sensibly and intend to lose some more weight, the healthy way!
I have the treadmill here for rainy days and I have my bike (yet to go) when the sun shines, which it is not forecast to do for the coming week.
It's good to know that WAH's follow similar patterns. Mine got fed up with me having lots of contact - I think that he felt really guilty and he was running out of excuses. I was pursuing and doing all the wrong things ... now I have 180'd and I don't know what he's thinking. Dark Day 11 today.
Will keep on travelling in what I know is the right direction .. it just hurts so much and I am struggling with my isolation, as I said earlier. Even when I do get out and meet people, I still have to come home to this big empty house which was once full of warmth and a homely feel. Now it feels like a furniture storehouse and is a 'cold' environment to be in. If it weren't for my clever and loving cats, I would have gone spare by now.
I know what you are saying about waking up twisted and sweaty .. I am there! I just know that we have to get out of bed each day, get dressed and get on with something ... tomorrow is another day. Today however, I just keep on 'hearing' H's car drive up and I run to the window ... of course, he's not there. I know that he would ring before coming down anyhow, as it's too far but I keep hoping that he may just call by. It still feels like he has gone to the store or is just late coming home from work ... I need more work on detaching.
Hi Nell,
Sorry to hear that this weekend has been a struggle for you. I can readily remember the pain you are struggling with at this early stage. The best part is that you have wonderful support and advice right here. Unfortunately I didn't have that and it was really tough to support my kids and keep my chin up in the confusion of the revelation of H's affair. I tell you this because it really does get better. It all takes time unfortunately and we have to just go with the waves that wash over us.
Once you get your job you'll feel better because you'll have purpose for your every day. Then you can save your money and come visit me!
Thanks for the cough medicine tip. I went out and got some today so I'm ready for tonight. I am really sore today and quite lethargic so I've had a restful day with a roam around the boards, a visit to the library, made some pikelets(a long way off the baking I was going to do)and a cat nap. I have a new book that I'm about to open!
Take care Nell,
Cas
Thanks Cas - it's great when the old buddies drop by too!!
I am riding the waves and I so hope that the job comes off ... it's only a short term cover until December but it may give me all that I need - that 'purpose' that you so rightly speak of. Just having a daytime routine and the fact that it will end these hideously long and lonely days. Yeah, will defo come visiting - maybe even with a view to moving interstate if things don't work out here - a new life indeed!
Glad that you got some medicine. Be careful now that you don't burn on the hot water!! It may make you cough a little more initially as the heat of the water opens up your chest/airways and any muck will be forced out ... this is good!! I hope that it does the trick anyhow.
Sounds like you have had a good day otherwise. What book did you get - I hope that it was non DB related so that you can have some alternate distraction?!
Nell, it's a chicky type novel that I picked up on the discount table at Borders. I bought it as an easy read for hospital but didn't get to it so thought I could enjoy it now...easy read with no effort needed on my part. I often find easy reads then open the door for me to read something a little more serious.
Yes, I certainly think interstate there would be greater job opportunities. Try before you buy! Btw, what made you and H choose Perth if you don't mind me asking? It's a beautiful place but so remote. I haven't been there for a long time but I though it was beautiful when we went there.
I think my neighbours have noticed but no ones been brave enough to ask me yet! althought the PITA that lives next door ask my son if I was ok and he told her "H was just working hard" but I cant hide behind that for much longer. Keeping everything crossed that your H puts the rest of the money in early next week, I know how you feel about H not being normal, Im in the same boat, my heart tells me that my H is a kind and honourable man, but my brain keeps reminding me if he was kind and honourable we wouldnt be separated and him only phoning once a week. Hope you get some studying done Nell, probably best to make sure everything is ready for working Tuesday incase you get a call. Will pop by later x
Nell, for example I have just read pearlharbr who wrote " It was only when I said no more, I'm done did things start to turn around."
Perhaps that's what I will get at the library next week - chick novel to just get some humour (and maybe perspective)!! Hope that you enjoy yours. Sometimes, you just need something other than all this heavy reality that we have locked ourselves in to, eh?
Perth was never on the plan .. we were headed to Palm Cove/Cairns where we spent our 10th WA - idyllic - especially out on Heron & Wilson Islands where we had 10 glorious nights. Our migration agent suggested coming over here to have a look and we liked it .. thought that it might also be easier in terms of acclimatising to the weather, so here we are! H has been encouraging me lately to look at interstate (I think because he now accepts my struggle with work) but I told him that if he thinks that I am making this any easier than it currently is on him, he needs to think again! I am not leaving my home until the last minute that I can legally get away with it. Then I have a lot of choices to make ...
I've considered those words Cas. I even have a note on my fridge notice board which says "book flights for April" - hoping that next time H visits, he will ask me about it. This reminds me that I have choices too and I CAN go home and file, which will make things awkward and disadvantage him, in his own words.
Brave move though - and I don't think that H is anywhere near making that choice ... I think that he feels that he is done and if I agree, that would make the rest of his life PERFECT!
Morning Rabbit.
What's a PITA - sorry, don't know that one?!
I don't think that you have to tell people until you are ready. I was considering what I would tell my neighbour, if she asked, as she was walking by the other day. I don't know if they have noticed or not but it would seem most likely as his car is never here now and he did bring that big removal truck a few weekends ago .. couldn't have missed that!
Thanks for your support on other matters. It helps to have your feelings validated, even when you know that you are out of whack yourself! Good advice to be ready, incase I get the call to work on Tuesday. That's something else I can prepare tomorrow.
We have had hail stones here today. Poor little Cat6 has been holed up all day and now she's sitting here with me - the sun is streaming through the blinds but I think that she is loathe to leave me to go out on her ritual evening wander.
I'll see how I go tomorrow but plan a beachy walk in the morning and then studying when I get back. I am determined not to sit in the house all day again. It's Fathers Day here tomorrow though, which means that it could be dead quiet out and about - or bedlam!
Catch you later ((hugs))
Ha, our last holiday as a couple was at Palm Cove.
I undertsand what you are saying about hanging on in the house until the last minute but I also think that there is something to gain from moving out which must help moving on. I am still the family home and for logistical reasons I will probably stay for another 2 years and then I'm going to find a place for me. Not sure where that will be but it will reflect my needs and not our needs which is what this house does. I like this house and i feel safe here but it's not really 'my place'
btw my neighbours have never said a word about H leaving but I'm more than certain it's been discussed but just not with me present!
Palm Cove ... beautiful. You know, Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt had part of their honeymoon there - in fact, in the hotel next to ours!
I can't move from here right now, not whilst I have no money. Our plan was to sell the house before all of this because of the disappointment that the builders wrecked our dream home. Still, that's another battle.
I lived on my own for years before meeting H and I was always so glad that I would never have to live alone again ... that fear may now be a real possibility (even though I am in our home, it feels a bit different as much of his stuff is still around me).
I admire Oz for doing as she has done with her new home but like her, I have the problem that I wouldn't be able to evidence enough income for the past two years so wouldn't be able to get my own mortgage or be seen as a safe renter. It stinks - these issues are what may force me to go back to the UK and then I would be without my cats for 6 months as they would have to quarantine ... and I really DON'T want to do that to them - or me. Leaving them here with H is not an option ... he does not deserve them for having abandoned them too.
Glad that you feel safe in your place but I guess when things change we all look for something that 'feels' better for many different reasons, not just safety.
Yeah - I wonder about twittering neighbours. I just hope that yours are not being unkind. I don't know many of mine, so that helps!
Hi Nell
I'm going to cut to the chase! Apologies in advance woman style
Everything I am reading is about you waiting for h, doing things so he will notice, hanging around in the hope that h will do something.
This will not help you. This time is about
YOU now not your h - he is off doing his own thing. Stop counting days, this is your game plan for the moment. You aren't going to contact him. Plus if you are going to count days you count from his last contact
- which is 4 or 5?
In Michele's words 'just do it'. Don't wait. If you had the security of knowing that your h would be away for a year but he would be back you'd be playing things very differently in terms of living your life. Act 'as if' that is what is happening. You already said there was nothing you could do and now you are signed up for the course. Didn't it make you feel better once you did it? But I know you probably didn't 'feel' like doing it before...
Don't hang onto the house because you think a house will bring him back. Honey, would you want him back if he was just returning for a house? You could always rent like I am doing? Do what is right
for you.
Only you have the power to help you and YOU are worth it.
(((JCJ))) No apology needed - I want to argue with you but you know that I can't! There's no bluffing the sisterhood and you can see right through me, though I am trying for it to be about me, I'm just still far too in love with H for anything else to matter. I know that I shouldn't but I guess this is about me faking it until I make it ... that's why I'm on this emotional see-saw all the time, isn't it? I know it is but I feel like I just don't want to detach, so why should I?? I feel that he is forcing me to go where I don't want to.
I feel that I don't have any decisions in life with my current situation as it is and it's all about what he is doing that is MAKING me take a different path than the one that I want to be on - with him ... I'm like a schoolkid throwing a tanty and dragging my heels as I go ....
I read the post that you left on Cas's board ... about your night out with H and I so identified with you at that point ... except for how strong you are and how weak I am. I don't know where people get that kind of strength from. I am trying to find it, you know that I am. I am working on myself with the C but I don't know that anything is making any difference.
I have only written that 'OK thanks' note to H in 11 days ... but yes, I see your point about counting! I just feel like everyone else is cottoning on to DB'ing and I am not - try as hard as I might!
No - it wouldn't make me feel better if H came back just for the house but then I know that he wouldn't - he's not that way inclined - none of it is important to him. I am ready to Act As If but again, it's not for me, sadly. I can do all this in front of his face and I am a good actress. It's just that I don't feel strong enough to do this all for me just yet. I am hoping that getting a regular job, some financial security behind me and some more 'stability' will help me get the ingredients to start doing it all for real. Meanwhile, I just have to carry on and try the best that I can ....
Don't beat yourself up Nell, you are a newbie
it comes with that dreaded word... time. Don't you just hate it
think about what I have said though and when you are ready, unlease Nell on the world.
I too have been dragged down this path I have been forced to go down, but it has forced me to grow in ways that I wouldn't have had it not happened.
Right, it is midday and I am still lounging in bed reading and faffing around. Some things never change
Lunch, cleaning and friend coming round for me today. Have a good evening.
(((Nell)))
Hi Nell
The strength you say everyone else has comes but it comes with time Nell.
Yes you still love your H, that is only natural, I still love mine but you must start to love yourself first Nell, I am now starting to love myself and looking at myself in the mirror and telling myself that I am wonderful, attractive, smart, sexy etc. Positive affirmations every day. That is what you need to start doing as well.
Morning Nell
What have you got in mind for today's GAL activities.
Morning Nell, although Im only just crawling into bed as I have been a disgusting stop out, not that I have to answer to anyone but the cat and she said she doesnt mind lol!
Hope you have a good day today, have been thinking of you all day and took you with me for a blast across the park so hope you felt the wind in your face however long distance it is..
Take care will catch up with you later x
Hey Nell I hope you slept well.
Tis a new day .. make the best of it!!
Thanks JCJ - your words were not wasted on me and I spent the whole of last evening thinking about moving interstate! I could do it - I know that I could but it's the same old reason that anchors me here ... fear and 'what if' - what if I can't cope. I will have cut my ties with H and then I shall have not even this shred of 'security' that I have currently. I would literally be starting from scratch - just me and the babies. Too scary in many ways - especially now. Maybe later though.
Still, thought it not too bad an idea to put out on the grapevine that I am thinking about packing up. Hoping that it will get back soon enough and see if or what reaction that brings. Probably none, or will force H's hand and then he will push me again to market the house. This time of silence is very un-nerving. I don't know what he's doing - or plotting.
Afetr reading Dia's inspiring story, I feel slightly better. Just shows that our friend 'time' can help, just as you said too. It's about working out a plan meanwhile and that all feels very threatening to me. I think that I will be able to look at things more clearly if and when I get a job. That's when the real me will return. I just know it.
Thanks Oz - my PMA has taken a bashing and when H was in his 'evil' mode, it did nothing to help, I can tell you!
I really must work on increasing my PMA - for I know that I am a good person and I know that I am worthy of a happy and satisfying life ... with or without H. The more that I have been thinking of what he has done lately, the more I realise that I don't need to put up with this treatment ... but the thoughts soon slip through the holes in the colander when I realise the situation that it has left me in. I am now trying hard to cut the wheat from the chaff in a bid to rescue me and let H live the life that he has chosen for himself.
I do love my H but this is not him right now and I don't like or want to be with this new person. I feel, strangely enough, like I have been widowed. How awful is it to say that, but it's how I feel?
Hey Rabbit .. gee, I must have felt the gallop through the park as I slept so well ... dreaming of a new life for me and the moggies!
So, where did you go last night and did you enjoy?? It's a weird feeling not having to 'answer to anyone' - not that I ever had to but it's weird just coming home to an empty house and no-one (other than the cats) knows that you have been out.
Got up full of vim and vigour. The sun was shining through but it just as quickly hides behind the rain clouds now so its' all a little uncertain in what I am going to do. If I can get out and give the last tree a hair cut, then I shall be fairly pleased!!
Catch you later, when you are up and around.
Thanks Shane ... yes, I slept like a log last night! What about you??
I often feel guilty for wasting the day but it's so difficult to get motivated sometimes. If I can't think of anything better for myself later, I shall make a start on picking up the threads of my studying!!
I'll jump over shortly to see how you are getting along ...
Journaling:
Well, with JCJ having put a shot across my bows yesterday, I had to consider that she was right. I therefore considered how it would be for me to move over East and start my life from scratch. Scary? Yes; do-able? Yes; Do I want to? Yes and No. Still, the seed has been planted and I shall use the next few weeks or months to germinate it ... it may well shrivel up and die but if it lives, what a magnificent plant it could truly be!
I am trying to think of other things than the H situation but living in my silent world does not give me too many opportunities for hearing much else. Even if I do things that distract, like read a book, the thoughts eventually catch up and start to choke me. Distraction is good but it is self-limiting.
OK - today will be about 1) cutting the tree between showers 2) starting my studies again and 3) a little research on job availability in my 'intended' new state. PMA - must look for some of that, too!
Have a good day friends.
Curious now Nell. What's your intended eastern state? Do you have one or is the intended state the one that has the most job prospects?
I'm thinking Brisbane Cas .... but could well end up depending on job situation.
I do know a couple in Bris and that would be a good start. I haven't seen the lady in 3 years and we only know this couple as we met when we were out on Heron. We have had a few phone calls and we are on group email for jokes etc ... I'm sure that they would be disappointed to know that H and I have parted but I also think that they would be supportive, as much as able, if I did move over.
I do hope that you are going to tell me that you are in Brisbane too?!!
Having read what you said yesterday, I wondered why the suggestion of WA for the climate and wondered why they didn't suggest Melbourne or Tasmania?
Yes, I hear that too! Couldn't do either of those now though ... I love the rain but not too much. I have learned to enjoy the sunshine and welcome the benefits of the extra seratonin that it produces ... happy pills in sunny form!
I liked Melbourne the twice I went but not enough ... and I have never yet been to Tas.
I'm on the Gold Coast Nell. We have beautiful sunshiney days but summer has lots of rain.
btw I know some great hospitals from patient experience both here and in Brisbane!!!
I hear that the GC is lovely but rain in the summer? Really surprises me.
Good to know that the hospitals are a good experience over there but my speciality is in Occupational Health/Injury Management so that's what I would be looking out for.
How long does it take to get to Briz, from where you are?
This is a sub tropical climate so there will always be rain in summer and drier in winter. It should take an hour to travel from GC to Bris but there is a lot of traffic in peak hour and both Bris and GC have traffic problems (like all growing cities)
As for your specialty field, i am of absolutely no help whatsoever
Thanks Cas! I really need to do lots of thinking ... I don't feel ready right now to move, is the honest response but I am not dismissing it either - I think that's as fair as I can be upon myself.
Meanwhile, spending every day lurking around on here is not giving me any long (or even short) term solutions. I think that I am going to go fix myself some lunch, grab a cuppa and then get DR and start all over from scratch, trying to work on a plan. I feel like I have jumped in head long, taken a bit of this and a bit of that, advice from DB'ers and, in panic mode, jumped straight in to no contact with H. People who go more slowly appear to have worked out their methodology and appear to be doing much better. I always was an 'act first think later' type person, which is not always right, I learn to my horror now that H has moved out.
I don't know what's going to work best as nothing I have done seems to affect him one iota. 180's are unnoticed, NC - he doesn't care ... positive affirmation, thinks that I am loopy or sucking up to him ... NOTHING works. I feel that this is a dead horse that I am pushing up the mountain.
My anger is resurfacing at times ... I just think "how dare he leave me like this - how dare he take it for granted that I will look after the house and the pets - how dare he escape from his responsibilities leaving it all to me whilst he GAL and I continue to die inside". Of course, I have not said these things to him but I would like too .. all barr the last one, of course!
Hi Nell
When you say you are thinking of packing up and moving do you mean within Oz or back to the UK?
You are right in saying it feels like you are widowed, that is a very accurate way to describe it. Or for me like living with a stranger who pays board to live in my house.
Brisbane, Oz! It's just a thought and it may go as quickly as it came by me. Just reacting a bit to what JCJ said yesterday. Got me to thinking.
Also thinking today that I could already have sold the house and moved to Brisbane but would H have even noticed? Not on your Nellie!
Another thought for my day ... what if I died here after a massive heart attack ... no one would find me for weeks.
We would find you Nell, if you don't answer our posts, we would be there in a flash.
That's good I am glad you would stay here and not go back to the UK. It is a good thought and one that I would keep pondering Nell.
If it is for you and it helps you then thats okay.
Don't contact. Hold the line here. Bottom line. Chasing a man and pursuing a man who shows they don't want you doesn't work.
What works is to let him come to you and having enough self esteem to hold out until he does.
Hold tight.
Hold onto Gucci's words Nell, if you were out dating again you wouldnt chase the one that obviously was a no go area would you? Just imagine H is that man! My H is so far away he cant see me GAL and as I always tell him I just busy and lots of stuff to do he doesnt know from me, but I blowed if Im gonna tell him what Im doing incase the smug rat sits there thinking hes doing the right thing because its obvious Im doing ok! I know how hard it is to GAL when you feel that the one you have and loved has been so cruelly snatched away from you! Keep going Nell it will get better x
I hear you Rabbit!
OK - here's my latest thought. I have just emailed H's friend in the UK to find out his plans for when he visits Hong Kong mid-month. I am planning to go meet him for a weekend!! How about that for GAL??!!
Evidently, this will depend on whether or not I shall be working but even if I am, I could still go for the weekend. Trouble is, if H found out that I had gone, he would be straight on my case in regard finances ... albeit that the money would be coming from my tax refund.
Also, thoughts are that if I did go, I would REALLY want H to know about it - if he can have a holiday with ow, why can't I go meet OUR friend?!! Equitable, I would have thought!!
Rightly or wrongly, it has lifted my mood and I am now looking at flights and waiting on where said friend is going to stay ... I need to be somewhere near where he would be. Considered mentioning that H might like to to come stay for the weekend but best idea is to be independent and put the furries in the kennel. Also means that H can not come around snooping through the house whilst I am gone!
I like this particular aspect of GAL!!!!!
That period of n/c was necessary because I had been pursuing and doing all the pre-DBing things so showed h I was 'safe' and he didn't feel pressured from me. It also helped me to be detached so I was no longer desperate when h did contact. This is why you are n/c at the moment Nell. It is quite important in the early stages.
Hi JCJ - thanks for the above. You reckon then for me to stay nc is the right thing at the moment? Re-working the days (and I have just checked his and my emails) there has been total NC for 4 whole days now!
I'm desperate to ask him about the grass and some financials but I just can't give in!!
How are you going??
Yeah, it also lets them realise what life is like without you. How can they do that if you are still there all the time? It reinforces the view that they need to get away from you if you persue. How long were you dark before he contacted you Nell - 3 days? That's great. Keep going.
I'm good, working up the energy to get up. I love my weekend lie ins
Your plans sound great re Hong Kong and possible move.
If I were you I would start thinking about what the options are if h does only put half the money in this month for the bills.
Good affirmation Julia!
Just thinking how I love a lie in, when I can get one - another thing that H has escaped from is getting up anytime from 5am to let the babies out!! I am trying to retrain them but it's not as easy said as done, especially when I enforce such an early evening curfew on them!
Just wondering if the Hong Kong thing may be a step too far. This money would be my absolute fall-back plan if H doesn't put the rest of the money in. I think that it's so unfair at the moment and I would purely be rebelling if I took the trip. Maybe that's unfair on him - I have to look at this from both sides, despite what he is doing. We haven't really had a sit down chat about the money (or much else!) and I have no idea what he is expecting to put in - or what he thinks I am currently living off. Fresh air is about the size of it.
Purely for logic sake, we need to talk soon!
Nell - Yes I slept great last night thank you. I did have a couple of dreams I could have done without. Thankfully I went right back to sleep after they woke me up. I relapsed on the Rx and have been taking them to help me get to sleep. Right now I need my rest and I've tried to go without them without much luck. Plus, with sleepless nights I'm worthless in class. I will try to start judging my mental state before bedtime and decide whether I need them or not.
I envy you, I can only daydream about moving out of this house. I'm smacked daily by the images of my W hanging on the walls. My IL's speaking about her. Realtives calling to ask about her. Makes detaching all the more harder. I have resigned myself to the fact that this is my sitch as it stands and I will overcome these obstacles.
IMHO, I think it will do you some good to get away for a spell. Again I envy you for having that ability at hand.
I'm taking the kids to a friends today to spend time with the kiddos and enjoy some face to face friendship. It will be a nice break from the normal daily routine. A positive GAL ... right!?!
Hope you sleep well and wake refreshed with the best PMA one can have.
Shane
Hi Nell
Love the plans for HK, regardless of H it will be good for you to have something to plan and look forward to! I'd definately see if you can get someone else to look after the cats too, Im beginning to regret asking H to look after moglet but it had been already agreed so I thought I would continue with that plan, but in hindsight I should have got her a day trip to see where she is going and popped her in for the weekend, because why should H get to spend time with her when he cant be bothered with her for the other goodness knows how many weeks! But maybe I will change my plans and go for plan B as I still have time to sort it out!
Hope you get to hear some good news about work tomorrow, Im with you on days are too long with no work, although I expect we will moan we have to go to work when the time comes lol. Im now sat here at it 4pm that awful time when it would be so easy to catnap but then not be able to get to sleep this evening, ironically a catalogue has just arrived and yes its got xmas stuff in it already I really dont want to face any thoughts of xmas at all yet Im not ready.
Hope you had a good day will catch up with you later x
Nell thank you for the kind words on my post and I will be keeping up with you as well. Have fun in HK.
Morning Nell
I am hoping you have good news about your job today.
I love the idea of you planning a trip for yourself. But make sure you are doing it for you as a very big 180 GAL activity. I am currently considering booking a holiday for both D & I in Januay maybe to Hawaii or Fiji depending on the end cost.
What else do you have planned for today Nell.
Hey Shane
Sorry that the dreams are waking you - I know how sickening that feeling is. If your current Rx isn't working, why not see your doc again and get a change?
What smacks me about your wanting to be out of your current domestic arrangement is that you could do some small things to change the picture! Nothing you can do about W hanging on the walls and I agree that it's hard overall to be living in her parents home - nothing you can do there at this time. However, when the IL's speak of her or relatives call asking about her, you can excuse yourself and say that you have studying to do. Go to your room or the garden, go shopping or find a way that removes you from the scenario which is making you uncomfortable.
It's weird how we can all envy others positions. I envy that you have people around you instead of spending every living minute on my own. This weekend, I have not seen a soul, never mind spoken to one.
You may have seen in my post above to JCJ that I am rethinking the trip to Hong Kong. I wouldn't be able to justify it if H did find out and I don't want to incur his wrath at this point in time. Whether I end up moving interstate too, that's another one that's out there for the universe to sort for me!
I so hope that you have a good time today with the kids and yes, it's very positive GAL'ing on your behalf! Well done - find more to do!!
My PMA has up and left me, I'm afraid. I'm going to counselling today though so let's see what happens later ...
Hi Rabbit
Really having serious doubts about HK - and Brisbane - now that I have slept on both. I guess that it was a nice dream that lasted for 24hrs but realistically, is it fair that I use my money that way? I think that with the threat of H only paying half the bills in the near future, I need to protect my a$$ets a little more than getting me a holiday - even though I could use it!
I think that you should go with plan B Rabbit, in regard the moglet. H has not even enquired about her and so why should he want to look after her? For my money, I would be taking her to kennels ... she will settle down and afterall, it's only a weekend. Just make sure that you are happy there, then she will be too! This would be another great 180 for you!
Nothing heard about work yet and even though I was working a short while ago, the days remained long but it was just full of people. Keep yourself busy - you are right, 4pm is too early to go to sleep! I can believe that the Xmas stuff is all filtering through now ... fortunately, Christmas out here is noth the same deal as back home and for that, this year, I am glad. The previous years, I longed for it to be like Christmas back home. It will be it's own blessing this year, unless you know who has you know what!!
Thanks Twist .. and Oz.
Be lovely for you and D to go to Fiji - that was another I was looking at!
Nothing other than counselling planned for today. Maybe will call in the shop on the way back to pick up some fruit'n'veg. I'm not eating well enough.
Wish I could shake off my impatience and for some spark of something to give me some hope. My candle is flickering.
Well friends, I am back from C and I feel like I've been through the mill.
Despite telling C how I feel and what I am trying to do, she 'senses' that H has put his message across more than clearly and she is concerned that I am killing myself off (my words) in the way that I am currently living and allowing H to control what's going on here. Essentially, she is right but her message is so clear that she thinks that he is not coming back. I know that she has no crystal ball and so can't say this any more certainly than I can say that he will return but I do think that she has the edge on this one :o(
I am now feeling worse than when I went out. In helping to broaden my social network of 2, she gave me the number for a group therapy for mental health folk. Now, I understand where she is going but am I ready for that? I don't know.
I guess what she has made me look at is that I could end up on my own and start to face those fears - haven't I been already? It's so damned scary for me I just don't even want to think about it never mind look at it.
It made me consider pushing H into LRT and start the ball rolling just so that I can get some perspective and stop living in limboland ... but I'm scared to do so as I think, like many of us, we know the answer.
My conclusion ... ? Well, I guess that I'm sticking with the nc for now and see what happens this week. If nothing, I shall look at it again on Monday.
I'm so upside down now - I could so use a hug or words of comfort from my loved ones who are so far away. Physical deprivation is as bad as emotional and I really wish that someone could come out for a visit - it's just not going to happen. None of my folk have been here at all in 4 years even though H's parents and friend have been 3 years on the trot. Irony is, this is the year that my family had intended a surprise visit but when the bomb was dropped, they went to Hawaii instead.
I just want this whole situation to be over and I know how the rest of my life is going to look - preferably with H in it. I am fast losing patience even though I am trying. Please don't be offended people but I also think that if all of this works, what is everyone still doing here year after year???????
Hi Nell
Look not all C's think trying to save an M is a good idea, so that is why you have to be careful about listening to them, they don't all get the ideas behind it.
I am so sorry Nell that you don't have family support in the physical sense to give you hugs I know that must be really hard, we humans do thrive on physical contact.
You are in a low spot at the moment so of course you question whether this all works, but as we know it is no quick fix and can take many months or years, it really depends on the individual and how long they want to stick it out.
There are a lot of success stories, there is a thread somewhere I think but I would have to try and remember where I saw it.
(((((((Nell)))))
I know that you are right Oz, plus, I do believe that my C is marvellous on 'personal insight' issues and so I don't want to bin her off just because she doesn't share the concept of me wanting to save my M.
I've just spoken with an ex-colleague who's W is soon to become WAW and I have tried to get him to sign up here! He's here in Perth and we could be good for supporting one another but I think that he's been too wrapped up in his stuff and me in mine thus far. We are also extreme north and south of the city, which makes it difficult. Will have to see how that pans out.
You are right. I am so low at the moment and I do need to get out of the house more, as C suggested. She has made me promise to do 3 sessions in the garden this week! She's so encouraging and she has even given me a two hour appt for the week after next. It feels churlish not to show her that I have made some progress but I really have not. Not from the C side, anyhow! My changes, if any, are from being here. I just 'enjoy' going to see my C. It's time out and more tangible than being a pseudo-name on an internet site.
Nell you have made progress with yourself, look for the small things hun, this time last week you would have easily sucumb to contacting H, but you have made it this far without doing so! You do need to go out every day somewhere, even if its for a walk in the park, or go to the library every day, some thing so you get to interact with other people and feel normal for a while! Go food shopping every day and pick a till and stick with that person when they are working so the "how are you"? turn into a conversation, preferable a good looking bloke lol.
You know how our councellor sealed my fate with mentioning "trial separation" they dont all think marriages can be fixed. Just think mine thought that H had more sense that he is showing at present. Work on the YOU things with your councellor maybe dont discuss the M side of things for a bit. Nell I wish I was near enough to hug you or had the money to fly out on a big adventure for me and you! Crikey that would be a 180 for me flying to Aus on my own, well you never know do you. Stick at it mate, you will get there. x
Thanks Rabbit - wise words.
What C did say to me was to forget last week and start afresh from tomorrow. That I can live with. I will do my best to get out each and every day this week - that is my public pledge right here, right now (I sound like Fatboy Slim)!! If I can't get out due to the storms which are on their way in, I WILL get on the treadmill every day. How's that? There you go, I have made a contract!
Just told our friend that I won't meet up in HK with him. I could use the break but there's so many con's to the plan and not enough pro's. I have to watch my back legally, as well as everything else.
I think that working on the me with C is a much more sensible option. Was just feeling so down about nc with H and it all came spilling out.
I wish that you were closer too! Big house with pool and spa looking for guests at Christmas - that's unless I've been turfed out on my ear by then. Fed up of living this life in total isolation but determined to see it through and not contact H yet ... hardest thing I have ever done, I'm sure. This is the longest time we have ever been without contact. To him, he probably hasn't even noticed.
Must concentrate more on ME and less on H. Mantra, repeat. Sleep on it.
Hopefully you will be tucked up snoozing away by now Nell. I do hope you have something planned for today, however small it might be its important to bring you out of your shell, it only takes a few moments of Nell feeling her old self again, treasure it and hold it close and try and recreate it once a day! Our H's have built their own brick walls to keep us out and to hide behind, we need to build our own sorta walls to keep us going each day and finally to stand on top off and shout "look at me I didnt need you after all" Look forward to hearing from in the morning, as for me I have had a funny day of sorts but my few moments of Rabbit time have been pleasant and worthwhile..
Morning Nell
I hope you awake refreshed and ready to do something for you today regardless of what it is, it is important that you get out there and do it.
It is a shame that you have shelved the idea of a holiday Nell, it really would have been a good thing for you, I am still contemplating the holiday with D but will have to do something soon as things book out quickly over the holiday or we could rendezvous in Perth if you are still there, that would be cool.
Lots of GALing then.
(((Nell)))
Wise words Rabbit ... I had no purpose when I got up this morning at 06.45hrs to let out the moggles and soon found myself back under the doona! (It's not often that I do that, I might add). I kept thinking about what I would be telling you guys if you were doing the same and so up I got and put on my gardening clothes.
I'm still not out there (having a cuppa) but I will be soon ... today I have a purpose but I will answer all my threads before I tell you what has happened!
I like the analogy of being on top of that brick wall that we have created for ourselves - kind of King of the Castle ...
I will jump over now and see how your day has been.
Hi Oz
Yes, I'm now ready for the day! I will do all my posts first and then give you all the news ...
I am kind of sad about the holiday but I don't think that it would be right at this moment in time to be spending that money. Maybe I shall just treat myself to something a bit smaller and more practical!!
Glad that you are still contemplating your holiday. If you want to come over to Perth (mad fool
) you would be more than welcome and yes, there would be lots and lots of GAL'ing then!!
Hi Nell
I haven't been to Perth since 1984 when I first met H's parents and sister and BIL. I believe it has changed a great deal in that time, they live south of Perth way way down south.
Where's way way down south?!!
They all live in Busselton now.
Oh yes, that one that always gets confused with Bunbury and has for ever after in our household become known as Busslebury! It's where H and ow are going for the holidays apparently - how coincidental!
Well I certainly wouldn't be going there if I did come over H's family never really did like me that much and the feeling was rather mutual.
OK - here's the thing. You guys won't be seeing quite so much of me in the next few months ... I've had to move my counselling to evening appointments instead of Monday lunches AND I have had to remake my Friday hair appointment for Saturday. Why?? ...
... I GOT THE JOB!!!!
Oh ladeeeez (and gents!), I can't tell you what a weight off my shoulders this will be up until December. It's only short term, as we knew, but it gives me immense breathing space.
When I got the call this morning, first thing I wanted to do was call H and tell him. Now I don't know what to do ... I could say nothing and just pay my half share of the bills into the account every month or I could let him know and then he can make the next move. What to do??
I don't want to risk him finding out from the gossips again, as he did last time and yet I don't want him to think that I am telling him just to make contact. I also don't want him to think that I haven't contacted him in the past two weeks as I have been at work and too busy to have done so!
Any suggestions? I'm kind of thinking that it may improve communication between us if he feels less financially pressured and yet I don't want to cave in on my DB technique now that I have struggled for this long. A conundrum, eh??
Thoughts please ... I start work on Thursday!
Oh Nell, I am so happy for you and you must remain positive as it could become permanent after December.
That is so fantastic, it will make such a difference to you each day getting out there with other people.
Of course, it is a great weight off your shoulders, you are now independent Nell again what a 180.
I am not sure of the telling you H, and I am not good on replies as evidenced by me yesterday, so I would hold off a bit until others have been able to give you some guidance, but I know how tempting it must be, you would feel like shouting from the rooftops.
WAY TO GO NELL!!!!
((((((((Nell)))))))
Thanks Oz ... as you can imagine, I am elated! (Imagine how I would be if H were coming home)!!
This is a great 180 and I know that H will be overjoyed for me when he does know - really, he will. He has seen the struggle that I have had since being out of work commencing last February and I know that he realises that it has affected me in every way possible. I so hope that my new 'job' may become permanent for the new year! How wonderful that would be?
Yes, it sounds like it's working within a team, though I will have lots of independence and autonomy because of the nature of the role. I will be meeting people though and that's crucial.
Can't wait to go over to the supermarket this afternoon and tell my friend that I am the new Injury Management person, so she best not go off sick or she will have me to deal with!!!! Funny as ...
The sun is shining in more ways than one today, my friends. I'm going to capitalise ... get changed out of my gardening stuff, go shop for packed lunches (!!) then home, treadmill and gardening, in that order.
Will catch up with you all later and would really appreciate any thoughts on whether or not to tell H at this stage. BTW - I have just put a few more $ into the joint account, to appease the situation! Really down to the last bones of my nest egg now though. Hope that payday is soon!
Decided not to say anything to H at this point. If he asks, when and if he notices money going in to the account, I shall tell him but basic details only.
Until then ... I remain silent and a little bit happier of the new (short term) independence! Still feeling sick over the M problems though :o(
Probably a good idea to stay quiet for the moment, let's see if he does notice and that draws him out.
Of course your M problems still make you feel sick but woo hoo what a great day for you on the job front, that is cause for celebration.
Sure is ... just thinking that the day has gone quite well - and much quicker. This must be how WASs feel most days ... out of sight out of mind, busy, busy and all that.
No wonder it's easier for them than it is for us. We just need to do what they do ... GAL and forget them for a while. I know, easier, much easier, said than done!
Fantastic news Nell I am so pleased for you, new job is certainly a huge 180 and GAL all combined. As for H I would start putting money into the joint account and wait till he notices, then if he makes contact make sure you tell him when you started work so that he doesnt assume about the last two weeks. I am so excited for you and yes this time I am jealous lol! Will catch up later x
Thanks Rabbit ... it's just such a relief after all this time. The contract is worded like these first three months are probationary (as is normal) and goes on to say that future salaries are not yet negotiated, which looks hopeful for extension.
Maybe they are 'try before we buy' and I certainly hope that is the case - unless I hate the job! Then it's a good out to stick purely to the 3 month contract! I really hope that something comes along for you soon too - I know the frustration of being out of work - honestly. I must have applied for 50 jobs recently and that's a big blow to someone who has always 'got' every job applied for in the past.
I think that, pretty much the advice from all, is to put my new salary in the bank and say nothing. If it smokes H out, I can tell him what he needs to be told. Meanwhile, the security of that money, along with my soon to arrive tax refund, sees me sitting pretty for a few months as long as I do not go out on any wild spends. That's a comforting thought and a position of security (temporary, though it is).
Just started reading DR again this afternoon. Took it in to the garden, sat with the mogles around me and smiled as I enjoyed the fruits of my garden labour, my new job and the fact that I am still coping - on my own.
Tomorrow: Lunch date, with Ruth at work where I did my agency shifts for five weeks. Maybe some new 'work clothes' shopping. Two weeks since I last saw H.
Thursday: Work - first day!
Friday: Work - second day, if I can survive the first day!
Saturday - hair cut. Morning tea with Julia.
Sunday - garden work.
Is this GAL'ing or what? Weeeelll, it's a start!!
Just changed my C appointments to fit around my new schedule. Dang thing is that means I can't go for two weeks now. They only have evening appointments on a Tuesday and they are booked until 22nd. Still, I guess that working will make a big difference to how I am feeling, anyhow.
OK - I'm having some supper and then making a fairly early night of it. Back tomorrow!
Good day, afternoon, evening or night to one and all! Sleep well folks and dream positive dreams. Wake with PMA by the bucket load.
Ooooh, ooooh, quick, quick everyone!!!!
Just got an email from H asking when I am available to talk this week - apparently, we urgently need to discuss the finances!! Not sure why that would be - mortgage: paid; bills: paid; ... nothing outstanding except that it leaves fresh air in the joint account but of course, I have two secondary plans for that!!
Evidently, my response will not be ready today as I am still not at home to Mr. Naughty! I think two days to respond should be good enough ... thinking to tell him the weekend would be good for me. Fed up of having 2.5hrs on a week night ... why not a few hours on a weekend?
I want him to come here in daylight hours and see the good job I have been taking of our home and gardens, not that I shall point it out!
Everyone's two cents worth are now requested - PLEASE make this next response that I have with him, count!!
Way to go Nell, if youre still on here pop over and read my thread I need a bit of advice!
I'm also inclined to not answer at all and make like my computer is defunct (God forbid)!!
This is my best draft so far:
Hey (as he addressed me)!
Sorry, not available this week. Could do Saturday after 3pm or Sunday?
Short, blunt, mysterious ... ?? Limited option but options, none the less.
Definitely short blunt and mysterious! Although Im no guru on the subject, just trying to keep my fingers out of the email at the moment!
Morning Nell
Yes you definitely need to be short and to the point and yes mysterious, must be mysterious, worked for me. I wouldn't answer straight away give it a bit of time.
I am glad you look like you have quite a few things on now and with the job that makes GALing so much easier.
Will check back after, have to run and get ready for work.
Very tired this morning.
Morning folks!
Will probably leave it until I get home from work tomorrow evening before I reply - that will be 48hrs. I don't want to ignore the email even though he has ignored mine in the past. I don't want him to think that I am game-playing as that would just incur more anger.
Will just keep it as I have suggested above and that should be OK, I think!
Decided to go buy some new work clothes today - I am ready for another treat!
Yay for Nell, new clothes, I love getting new clothes, it does wonders for you when you come home with all those nice new things to pop in the wardrobe.
Shame they are just work clothes though - not quite the same as a nice black sequined number!
Just thinking back to a post that I saw a while ago (don't know who's it was). Someone suggested that the LBS should reply to a similar email, such:
Sorry, can't do x,y or z night but a,b or c will be fine. Can you let me know what exactly it is that you want to discuss so that I can think it over before you arrive.
What are your thoughts on that?? Does it look like you are buying time to make excuses or does it show a commitment to being solution focused??
Hi Nell
doesn't matter if they are work clothes, they are still new and it means you can go SHOPPING.
Yes I have seen that reply suggested and in fact had been suggested to me a few times. It is good because it contains no real emotion and puts it out there that you are not available whenever the H is ready to make contact. No it doesn't look like you are making excuses.
Thanks Oz - perhaps I shall do that then.
I've come back from town - bought a suit which is nice but as I am in between sizes now, legs and arms are too long whilst body looks good! Needs some adjustment and a blouse/top underneath so that I can get the true picture. Will make a decision on the weekend as to whether it stays or goes back!
Feeling sick this afternoon. Don't know why but it's almost like I see this next contact as a make or break, which I know is silly. I am impatient and I know that this is not going to be the time when he says that he is coming back but I just need a sign that this is worth fighting for right now. It's been so long with nothing.
Whilst I feel in control with H waiting on my answer of when to meet, I know that after the meeting I will be out of control and back to square one all over again. This is a hideous way to feel constantly.
OK - I'm off spider fighting ... they are getting the spray treatment this afternoon! I've had it with them rebuilding their webs as quickly as I can knock them down. The grass has also shot up overnight - seems that all my effort the other day is now wasted!
Hi Nell
I think when you get clothes you have to have a look as a complete outfit especially a suit.
Only natural to feel sick over your next contact as it has been a while, you just need to make sure you have your thoughts straight in your head before you meet and also how you plan to react when you do see your H.
You won't be back out of control Nell and before you even think this you need to wait and see exactly what it is he wants to see you about. I wouldn't waste precious you time thinking about that at the moment.
Good luck with the spiders and I know what you mean by grass growing so quick but now I don't have to worry my new place doesn't have one blade of grass.
For what it's worth, trying to be fair, recognising my own faults that led to distance in our M, understanding why W got angry with me, and making allowances for how she felt all (inadvertantly or not, directly or not) led to her plunging further into an A at that time.
This all scares me - especially when I am thinking of how to deal with H when he arrives to talk about the finances. Why he has chosen now, I don't know. The bills are all up to date and there is currently money in the joint account.
I have drafted my email such:
"Hey (remember, this is how he addressed me)
Sorry, not available this week. Could do Saturday after 3pm or Sunday?
If you let me know exactly what it is that you want to discuss, I can have a think about it before you get here".
Reading it like this, it sounds kind of petty and stand-offish. I also think that he will see this as a ploy to break up his weekend when he may or may not be planning to see ow. He has only been here on a weeknight since he moved all his stuff out. I would just love him to come down on a weekend and it would be a small goal if we could go out for coffee together.
How do I make that happen though?? It's like I've never spoken to him before and now I am nervous for every little contact - have I 'detached' too far?? I think that I am just scared of blowing it.
Nell youre mind reading hun! He's ET remember he dont make sense.. Your email sounds fine, if you want to make it sound a bit less stand offish how about "Can make Saturday after three or Sunday" That sounds a bit more like you are trying to comply a bit. Dunno if thats giving him too much or not!
Suit sounds nice, Im in the same position as you Im in between sizes on some things although Im only 5ft1 I can do petite bottom half but not petite top half, even though normal sizes the arms are always too long..
Good points Rabbit. Yes, I shall change the draft to reflect that. I am trying to mind-read and we know that we can't at this time so thanks for pulling me back on that too!
Still not sure on the suit. Will put it on again over the weekend and get the full regalia going - perhaps it will help me to decide and then if I keep it, I can make sure that I have it on when H comes around! It's a pain when you are 1/2 sized, isn't it?
I am 5' 6" so don't have that problem but most Aussie ladies are much taller - it seems that they are all 5' 8" and above, hence the trousers are all long over here! Ah well, small potatoes in the scheme of things ...
I just have to figure out what I am going to say to H now when he gets here ... I want to be prepared because I don't want to end up flustered and lose my DB'ing confidence.
Hi Nell,
Just sending congratulations on your job. This is great for you on so many levels. Well done!!
Cas
Hi Nell
Don't stress so much about the email not being friendly enough, believe me, my emails were no different and they didn't have a negative effect on my H. You could soften it if you really want with what LR added but I really wouldn't lose sleep over it.
And Nell, no I don't think you have detached too much.
Just for the record I am 5' just scrape it in, so I live in extremely high heels just to get a couple of extra inches oh to be 5'6". Everyone in my family is taller than me, H, S & D.
Thanks Cas - it will bring some long awaited relief - even though it is only until December!
Oh goodness - I never considered myself tall but here I am in amongst you vertically challenged bunch!! <grin>
"Sorry, just got your email. Don't really have time this week.
Just email me what you want to discuss.
THIS is also the time to bring up the bills to him. NOW....
MAKE him come to you. Make him tell you that he WANTS to meet.
Good job. You win the battle of the wills for this round. It was very important.
Thanks Gucci - I have been trying so hard and wanted to get this right. I know that your help will see me on good tracks.
Seems you are always there when the moment is crucial!!
I like your suggestion so much ... !! When I make him WANT to meet me, what next??
Please come back soon .... :o)
Good job. You win the battle of the wills for this round. It was very important.
It's so good to have this positive affirmation after the hard slog that it has been. Puts a smile on my face!
It's now a full week without any contact from me to H and Gucci's words feel like a Gold Medal right now!
Indeed, it's not easy, that's why it's a "battle".
btw, what I posted, that was not meant to affect anyone negatively. I was just saying it as I saw it. I'm sure many on here will relate to the fact that a WAS can and will find fault with just about anything you can do. When there is an OP, they know it's wrong, but the pull is almost impossible to resist.
Justifying it internally is important to them, even if the logic is warped. "validating" them in the wrong way when they are about to cross lines with OP simply adds fuel to the way they want to think - that it is not their fault that you have been so bad/lacking in the M, look what you did to them, what suffering they went through, and how wonderful it is to meet someone who is there for them. When they're looking for excuses, this comes ready-made as an empowerment to take the next step ...
Not all the time of course, but it can happen ... it's such a hard line to straddle at times.
Just giggling and wondering if I should put my full name on my email to H tomorrow ... I have never EVER signed anything other than W or the abbreviated version of my name on anything to him ..
No-one ever uses my full name and I know that it would make him wonder why I have gone formal all of a sudden!! Haven't decided what to do yet, still tittering away to myself .. don't want to thoroughly hack him off though - he may see it as cocking a snoop at him and taking the proverbial.
Thoughts please??
hahaha well if you really want to go that route, use a business like abbreviation (that you might actually use at work), sign off with "Regards" and with contact details too.
(Ok that was just being silly).
Good luck today Nell, you will be fab! Hold that feeling so that you can come back to it when you need too! Thinking of you x
keep the email brief as the others are suggesting. Use the name you would normally use I think though - maybe he'll think ahh it's Eskimo and be pleased. Hold off the kisses though!
It's tempting, Deep!!! Thanks for dropping by
Thanks so much Rabbit ... spent a dreadful night ... things buzzing around my brain obviously kept waking me. I didn't think that I was bothered about getting up and going today but probably am underneath all the other stuff.
Woke twice in the night and been up since 5am - don't have to leave until 7.15 this morning, hence I have had lots of time to drop in before I go!! Just wish that H knew that I was getting out there - he would be so pleased today.
Still, ready to send my email this evening. Was tempted to send it this morning but it may give him a clue if I'm sending email at 5.30am!! He will know that I don't enjoy that time of morning and, even if I was awake, it would be unlikely that I was on my computer! He would know that work was lurking. I want to be the one to tell him so that he gets the full picture of the temporary nature of the job.
Just trying to think of my response when new people start asking friendly things like "where does your husband work" and all that jazz ... have decided that probably to say little is the best at the moment and just answer honestly. I don't have to wash any dirty linen and nor do they need to know that we are S at the moment. H is very private and I am sure that the people in his office only knew because he had taken off his Wedding ring. Can't think about that now though.
So, the day is work and then home to send the email - then await the fall out! Oh - and whether or not to tell H that the job is full time ... he will expect a bigger contribution from me if he knows that. I don't want to be dishonest but I have to hold some back too, don't I?? I'm sure that honesty may well be the best policy though.
Sure bonny - I think that, as you have suggested, my regular name will be what I finish on and no, defo no kisses!!!
I like your 'ahh it's Eskimo' words - just hope that you are right now!
When I see anything from H lately, I just think 'oh, here we go' ... !!
Good luck today Nell, I am sure you will do really really well. Have a great day and we look forward to hearing all about it later on.
(((((Nell))))
Thanks ((Oz))
Thought that I wasn't going to make it a few minutes ago. I stupidly got up on my computer chair to reach something that had fallen from the top of my bookcase ... wheely chair ... you can guess the rest. I have really hurt my leg/hip now and am laughing at my own stupidity. Frightened Cat6 so badly ... !
It's moments like this that amuse and then frighten me. You want to tell H how dull you were and then realise that if the fall had been more serious, what would have happened to me here alone and maybe not able to get to the phone?? Scary this living alone business.
Hi Nell
I hope you had a fabulous first day at work and all went really well.
I hope your leg/hip is okay now. You have to be careful with what you do as far as climbing on chairs go.
Ouch Nell hope its not too sore now, I know exactly what you mean about not doing silly thing too but on the other hand you cant always wait, or rely on someone else to do it. Isnt it sad that when you get to spend time with the one you love that all you can think about is "now what" or like me last night "oh no its H" Anyway hope you have had a fab day at work and are feeling really GAL!
Lucky you didn't do any more damage Nell. And what work field did you say you were in!!????
Hi Nell
Sorry to have not been around for a while. How was your first day? Hope you have recovered now form your fall.
Thanks Ladies - I know, I'm a star, aren't I?!! A good advert for my profession!! *LOL* Fortunately, I don't seem to have done any permanent damage!
Good to have you back JCJ - where have you been? Are you OK? Was getting concerned about you.
I had a GAL of a day at work, thank you all for asking! It's going to do me good - I so know that! It was a long day as I was just reading stuff but I think that it's going to be me. The office is lovely and most of the girls have been welcoming .. two blokes too! (Nah, don't start with me, I was old enough to be their mums)!! Just what the Dr. ordered though.
Just sent off my email to H telling him I can't meet this week and for him to email me his questions. Now waiting .... and I guess I will too. I think that he will see this for what it is and completely ignore me. Ah well ... back to the silence is golden routine.
Have a good day, evening, night .. wherever you are!
If he ignores you.. So be it. That only means that a face to face would have left you dissappointed too.
You did the correct thing. Let him come to you. You waited out the first to contact the other battle. Now wait out this one.
Thanks Gucci - will do as you advise.
Getting stronger even though I am going to bed tonight feeling really blue - sad thoughts of what should have been a Happy 16th Wedding Anniversary tomorrow.
Change the wedding anniversay to "Celebrate Nell" day.. Apart from work which is new, exciting and fresh, and with eye candy to boot lol, make the rest of the day about YOU YOU AND YOU! So glad to hear you had a fab day as well, and wise words from Gucci as always.
Hi Nell
I am so glad your first day went really well. I can tell it has already made a difference to you, just by the tone of your post.
Good work with your H on the NC and the email. I am sure he will be wondering about you.
I agree with LR change the day to CELEBRATE NELL day and you have heaps to celebrate now, you have ahieved a very big GAL step.
((((((Nell)))))
Good to have input from you all but tonight I want to S C R E A M ....
I have struggled all day - glad that I was at work and glad that I only had a load of reading and 'familiarising' to do as I couldn't have coped with anything else. I guess I kept waiting for a message from H and of course, none came. I rushed home, thinking foolishly that there may be an email but again, nothing. It's early yet but I'm not foolish enough to think that he will email later, either - especially today. This hurts like you can only imagine ... in two and a quarter hours, sixteen years ago, I started my walk up the aisle.
I'm trembling with anger, hurt, sadness, upset ... and I am so tempted to ring him but my head won't let my heart do it. I know that I could have been seeing him tonight or over the weekend if I hadn't changed my draft email, but I also know that what I am doing is right. It doesn't stop every ounce of my body from the way I am feeling right now. I just don't think that I can go on for much longer like this ...
I think that we do need to talk soon. It's been almost three weeks now and there are things that need to be said about the house and I need to let him know that, whilst I am coping, I think that he should be doing stuff here too - why am I lumbered with everything and he's getting off scott free? There's an imbalance of EVERYTHING here ... just need to take the weekend to sort out a 'script' for how that conversation is going to go.
Any suggestions??
Sorry to hear about your tough day Nell. Lucky you were at work cos that would have helped you to cope.
The imbalance is very typical, Nell. I think that's partly why they move away...to escape the responsibility.
Try to avoid contact, Nell.
Cas
He gave you the opening to bring up the issues regarding finances... It isn't pursuing when he made the first contact..
Just email him back and say something to the effect of..
"What are you going to do about the house payment being overdue? I am not going to pay your portion and would appreciate it if you would take care of your end without me having to tell you. I am not going to allow this to ruin my credit, so if you don't take care of your responsibility then I am going to take other action. If I don't hear back from you by Sunday night,then Monday morning I will contact the creditor (s)" to see what my options are and help them to deal with you directly.
Enough said....
Gucci, I wondered if you'd be able to give me some input on my thread? I'd really appreciate your thoughts.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1836091#Post1836091
((((Nell)))
I hope your kitties are around you at the moment. You are being really strong. I know it is really hard but you can do this.
Lots of deep breathing Nell, its not easy facing your WA on your own and getting now contact, Im not sure how Im gonna get through next monday, we would have been together twenty nine years, and its gonna cut like a knife it being ignored, but thats what I am expecting to happen, so maybe I will have to start organising a celebrate Rabbit Day now so Im too busy/tired to care.. Hope the moggles are giving you lots of cuddles, love and attention today. What have you planned for tomorrow, something nice I hope cuddle x
Hi Nell
I am so glad you were at work on your WA being at home would have made it so much worse. But guess what Nell, even thought it hurt like hell, you survived, you got through it which is one more bonus point for you, you didn't cave in and ring.
H will contact you, you just need to keep remaining strong and holding fast on your nc.
What's on for the weekend?
Forgot to ask have you had your hair done yet?
Hi everyone and thanks for checking in on me - I certainly felt like checking out yesterday - and that's no joke. I got an email from a friend and a phone call from another friend back home but of course, nothing from H. It was tough. I went to bed really early so that I could end the day as quickly as possible. It was so hard not to ring, text or email H - I was just going to write "bet you are proud of yourself today" or just "Happy Anniversary" but I resisted. Instead, I just replayed my Wedding and the Wedding Breakfast over and over in my head - to the exact timings minus the 7 hour time difference. Torturous but I just couldn't stop it.
I still can't cry and, even though I sat and watched all the 9/11 stuff which always sets me off, I remained dry eyed. Why can't I cry - I REALLY need to - it's been 3.5 months now and nothing ...
"What are you going to do about the house payment being overdue? I am not going to pay your portion and would appreciate it if you would take care of your end without me having to tell you. I am not going to allow this to ruin my credit, so if you don't take care of your responsibility then I am going to take other action. If I don't hear back from you by Sunday night,then Monday morning I will contact the creditor (s)" to see what my options are and help them to deal with you directly.
Thanks for this advice Gucci but the payments worked out for this month, afterall. I managed to put in my half (almost!) afterall even though H carried out his threat of only putting in half. As I now have a 3 month contract, it won't be a concern for the next few months either but I take your point.
I will certainly be telling him that I won't carry debts for him but in fairness, that's not what he is currently doing - he has been supporting me so far but he's just upping the ante now and 'forcing' issues to make me uncomfortable. It stinks and I know that he is being coached to force my hand. Well, that may just backfire on him.
I don't know what it is but something tells me that he's forewarned of all my actions. I just wonder if he is a lurker here but then I don't think that he cares enough to do so.
I also think that, whatever I do and whatever DB technique that I try, NOTHING is working with him - I just don't think that he cares anymore - I'm becoming more disillusioned and I am starting to think that this is on M that won't survive - he's so over me and I don't know what to do next.
I'm sick of my folks telling me that I am so strong ... I am not.
Oz - hair cut is this morning and then J is meeting me for coffee.
Sorry for your pain Nell. Hope today is a better day for you.
Perhaps something is working...you just don't know at this early stage. Hang in there!
(((Nell)))
Cas
Do you really think so Cas? Thanks for your support - it's so great to know that you guys are around when I am feeling so low.
Will be back later to check in on your threads but I'm almost late for my appointment so best dash ... !
Nell- I wish I was like you I can't seem to stop crying. You are a strong woman and you will get through.
Hi Nell
I am sorry you are feeling that way today Nell, but you do have to remember it takes a long long time this DBing stuff, no miracles overnight that's for sure and in your case with little contact it will take that bit longer. Try and stick it out if you can, we are all here for you.
(((((Nell))))
Morning Nell, hope youre feeling more bouyant after a nice hair cut and coffee! ((nell)) Its so hard, we can try to mind read what they are doing and thinking. I can pick up tiny signals from H when he phones but I still cant guarantee that my H radar isnt faulty because of course he is now ET and is already doing stuff way out of his normality.
I certainly find trying to face issues before they come up a big help when I have to deal with them, although its gonna take "b*lls of steel" to not react to the OW if and when she comes up.. But thats just it my 180's are not to fly off the handle and do one, because thats what will bring him up sharp..Its almost like we need a check list of first time whammies to get through and then I think we can stabilise ourselves.
Its far too early to anticipate how much of your new behaviour is affecting/not affecting H, and also keep reminding yourself that whilst he is in the honeymoon period with OW he has rose tinted glasses on still, they might not have had their first serious bust up yet, and we all know that will happen at sometime and thats when you have to be there looking so good that he gets rattled. Keep reminding yourself that to choose the DB route is choosing the long game/haul. Also go read some of the posts where it has turned around but the LBS has finally decided that the crap just isnt worth it anymore, those are the ones that have really healed IMHO.
Will pop in later x
Hey Twist - no, I'm not strong. I have just subconciously built a wall around me and now it's keeping me a prisoner of my own emotions ... it's best to let it out ... let it flow. You will stop when you are ready and you will be better for it.
It's self destructive to not cry. Your body has to release the 'toxicity' somehow and that's why I have developed a lot of physical symptoms instead. I know which I would rather.
Hey Rabbit and Oz ... thanks both for dropping in. I am trying to hang in there and have been today for my sassy new hair cut, which I am very pleased with! GAL then meant shopping at the newly refurbed plaza near home and giong for lunch with J. Didn't get back until 15.30hrs so I did well.
Just been out and done some more gardening and put down the path weed control ... a long overdue job!
When I checked my email, there was an email from H responding to a question I had about my car insurance. H didn't give a straight forward answer but it was 'what do you need to know' - well what does he think that I need to know when I have asked for the details ... simple, straightforward, I would have thought! Playing games, no doubt. Ah well, at least he answered. He has not answered however to the email in regard my last when I said that I had no time to meet to discuss finances. Wonder if that was an 'excuse' on his behalf??
OK - time for early dinner (found a good veggie curry at the supermarket) and then some fun with the moggles, who have been missing their mommy for the past few days!
Catch ya's later.
Hi Nell
OOOhhh I bet you look real sexy with the new haircut.
Glad you had a good day. At least H has answered at least one of your emails that is a start and as we say baby steps. Just remember keep your reply to the point.
Hi Oz
Yes, I reckon that when I get that suit on next week, I shall really look the biz!
Today was good and you kind of get lost in the moment for a few hours when you are doing something nice with a friend. J is from back home and we get on famously - each time we meet, learning more about one another. She's fast becoming a great friend and I am so glad to have her, which I keep on telling her! She told me today that I was so easy to be. As I was driving home, I had a smile on my face which soon disappeared as I realised that I couldn't come home and tell H all about our day together ... and then the nausea starts all over again. He would have been so supportive of this new friendship as he knows how important it is for me to have a girl-friend to share stuff with - laughs, jokes, stuff from 'back home'.
I don't know what H is playing at really. It seems to be a cat and mouse game at the moment. I don't know when this is all going to stop and he is going to be a bit more communicative than he is currently. I just need him to see that I won't be treated with derision - once he starts to treat me better then I can respond better to him. Until then, I maintain my current stance although I'm starting to think that I need to change tack ... this is not working and so I have to think of a new DB technique. More of what works, less of what doesn't etc ... but I am all out of ideas.
Yes, I did keep my answer short and to the point. Nothing more, nothing less than I need to know the policy number and who the insurance is with! As H dealt with it all and the policy was in his admin stuff which I packed and threw out with him, he now needs to find this info and get back to me. He will probably take his own sweet time but if nothing hear by Tuesday, I shall call him at work in my lunch break. I don't intend hanging on forever and waiting at his beck and call. This is not a difficult request, nor will it cost him anything, other than 5 minutes of his time.
Feeling wrung out today but just about coping.
How is everyone else??
Glad you had a great time with your friend. You do need friends to do all that girl time stuff with, it is good for the soul and our wellbeing.
I wouldn't worry about H and when he is going to get a bit more communicative, it will happen but slowly in the meantime, don't spend precious time thinking about it.
Maybe Gucci will have some better idea of where you should head from here if you don't feel the nc is not working for you.
But I am sure he is getting the message he just isn't being drawn in just yet, I don't know, it is a hard one for me to try to help with as I haven't had to do the nc route.
(((((Nell)))))
Hey Nell,
Just a little something to consider......my H and I have had constant contact since he left and in particular over the last 12 months which has included family dinners, a dinner just the two of us and lots of texts and phone convos. I have had nc with him for 3 weeks now aside from his email for furniture. Your H is in the beginnings of his A so could take longer to make contact but it doesn't mean your nc isn't making him think.
Cas
Thanks Oz and Cas ... I am in a quandry and don't know which way to turn next.
I sent a text last night and said that I would appreciate it if he could get the information re the insurance to me ASAP - that was all.
I got up this morning to an email, which he must have sent immediately upon getting the text, to say that he can't do it until Monday. Now, this leaves me with two anxieties.
1) H is evidently interstate visiting ow this weekend, which has just raised my nausea level into overdrive once again. I was coping with not knowing which weeekends he was away but this has shaken me for the day.
2) I want him to stop indicating when he's with ow as it makes me feel so bad. If I tell him to stop, he will know it's getting to me and that will knock me off my 'in control and don't care' perch.
So, how do I move forward from here? I think that to continue nc for a while may be OK as it did flush him out to ask about discussing the finances, which he has not followed up on.
Monday will see him give me the insurance details but I don't know how to answer his email. He followed up by asking "what's up - someone bump you?" ...
He's obviously content enough that I am not hurt and yet doesn't care enough to put himself out any further than that.
Maybe I just don't answer but sit this one out and wait ... when he sends the details, just thank him for having done so. That would be mysterious but is it right ... I don't know?
I just wish that I could get over my intense jealous rages and control my desire to shake the living bones out of him and tell him to grow up and come home to where his REAL love is waiting to get things back on the right tracks. I am so angry and sad all rolled in to one today - and I woke up feeling like I was going to have a good day!
Answers welcome, PLEASE! Gucci, if you are out there .... !
.... and as an after thought, which is even more sickening, this also means that H would have been with ow on our Wedding Anniversary, equally as he was with her on my birthday. I'm getting so enraged and it's about time that I blasted him. It's like he's taking everything that is precious to me/us and tearing it apart in front of my face. His cruel actions are so alien and yet he knows that he will be getting a rise out of me. The worst thing is, I can do nothing to stop him.
He followed up by asking "what's up - someone bump you?" ...
What does that mean?
With regard to getting back to you Monday I know that it hurts that H is with OW but I'm not sure what else he was supposed to answer. It seems like he was being courteous telling you he can't do it until Monday. This might actually be your issue more than his and I can understand why. However, you can't really say anything to him about it because it shows you are rattled and in reality he hasn't said he is with ow, you have presumed it.
You are right Cas - but in your own heart you know, don't you? If he was not away, I know that he would have done this for me straight off.
The quote means "has someone hit your car".
I do hear you in that he was being courteous but it's the whole message which is now eating at me. I'm just not coping well today. I'm so angry and frustrated with the life he is currently living - I'm so fed up of being on my own and I want this whole thing to be over ... I just want my H to come home.
I want him to stop indicating when he's with ow as it makes me feel so bad. If I tell him to stop, he will know it's getting to me and that will knock me off my 'in control and don't care' perch.
Exactly. What the hell do you care? She can have him. Look what kind of a man she's getting.
Maybe I just don't answer but sit this one out and wait ... when he sends the details, just thank him for having done so. That would be mysterious but is it right ... I don't know?
I'm not gucci, but I am a follower. I would think just reply. "No one bumped me. Monday will be fine. Thanks."
I just wish that I could get over my intense jealous rages and control my desire to shake the living bones out of him and tell him to grow up and come home to where his REAL love is waiting to get things back on the right tracks.
Oh well,
his loss Nell. Know your value.
If Answers welcome, PLEASE! Gucci, if you are out there .... !
I've been copying some of my favorite gucci posts. Here's one that might help you:
I think you know how, but don't have the confidence that he will actually chase you if you showed him the attitude of ....
"Who needs this? Not me, find someone else that will let you treat them like crap.. not me, I am not wasting one SECOND more on a man who can't be true and faithful.. ta ta"...
You can't see the strength in that? The reason it makes you MORE attractive?
That if he would let you go, that you really DO NOT need that from a man?
Self esteem and confidence will do wonders for how you think about these things
I'm getting so enraged and it's about time that I blasted him. His cruel actions are so alien and yet he knows that he will be getting a rise out of me.
Do NOT blast him Nell. It makes you look weak and shows you even care. He
thinks he will get a rise out of you. When he can't he will wonder what is going on with you.
Hang in there girl. You can do this!
Nell, another one of my random thoughts. My H loves his kids, there's no doubt about that but he really has minimal contact with them, often just weekly dinner and in the beginning not even that. He's just in this incredibly selfish mode. Now if your H is anything like this you might get some insight into his minimal contact of you.
Just a thought
Thanks Dudess and Cas - your words are comforting and I know that they are so right ...
I have been out and done some more gardening to work off my frustrations. I have to stick this out and not rise to his bait. If I show him that I really don't care, then just MAYBE it will get to him in a while. It's just that my patience is at a low ebb and, the more I try to be patient, the more I feel that he is moving further away - maybe I should just start to accept that it is over.
I was talking to an old neighbour of ours today and he said "it really doesn't sound good" and my heart sank even further.
I'm tired, my body aches from doing all the extra stuff around the home and garden - I'm exhausted emotionally and there's not really anyone that can pick me up, as H always would have at times when I felt this way. I just feel like I'm running out of all my reserves. My self esteem is pretty low.
I do see the value in your Gucci quote, Dudess and I wish that I could truly feel that way in my heart but right now I'm still in fake it mode because, try as I might, I love my husband and I can't (and don't really want to) let go. I only wish that I could because I DO deserve better than he is handing down.
I'm really struggling with how we could be M one day and the next the whole world is tipped upside down and he wants nothing more to do with me - what's that all about? This is a man who said that he wanted us to be friends and do things together ... where's my opportunity to do that then when he doesn't want to speak to me??
I think that we need to clarify lots of things but how to go about that? He has kept me up to date with his email address changing but as I went nc for a while, I don't know how to redress the balance now and start to make 'little goals' ... I don't know whether it's best to stay no/minimal contact but I really don't see anything working here. He's done and moving on ... I don't think that whatever I say or do is going to change that.
Just been making packed lunches and started to look at what's happened that is POSITIVE recently.
1) H threatened to get the house valued many weeks ago - this has not happened
2) H asked to speak with me about finances and, despite I asked him to put his thoughts in an email as I could not meet with him last week, that also has not happened.
We have been in limboland for almost 4 months now. What's happening??
Peronal Positives are:
1) I have two new friends
2) I have a temporary job
3) I have learned how to do some car maintenance
4) I have learned how to work the new lawn mower
5) I have learned how to weed and feed the two different types of lawn - and have done it!
6) I have fertilised the back lawn
7) I have knocked down the spiders webs and put up some spray to prevent more
8) I have cut the grass trees and done pretty well!
9) I have survived living here alone
10) I have managed the finances and risen to the financial challenges that H set for me
11) I have learned to deal with my friends and family and their unsympathetic, hard attitudes
12) I have learned how to maintain the pool - and done it!
13) I have managed BY MYSELF
14) I have learned that I don't have to ask H for everything I want - there are ways of finding out information from other sources
15) I am not so afraid of the night-time by myself
16) Our cats love ME - they no longer miss H!
17) I have lost 3 dress sizes
18) I can wear knee length highheeled boots and not look too old for them!
19) I can wear jeans and look good!
20) I have bought myself 1/4 of a new wardrobe
21) I can get my taxes done for myself
22) I don't NEEED H but I would prefer that he were here to help me.
Hey, I'm doing OK!
Wow, that really is an impressive list Nell and this would be a good exercise for us all. You really have taken on a whole lot. Well done!
Is this the time for me to invite H to dinner one evening next week? He wants to talk to me about finances and I have to tell him about my job. I would also like to get him to agree to do some stuff that is required around the home and gardens that I can't tackle for myself.
How about:
"There is some stuff we need to discuss. Are you able to meet this coming week? I'm happy to catch up nearer to you if it's easier and you would prefer not to come down. Perhaps we could go for some coffee, or even dinner, somewhere?"
I don't know that I am the right person to answer this Nell. Can you cope seeing him again and will you be able to meet without holding out hopes for for than just a finance meeting? I know I wouldn't have been able to do this and still would have difficulty not over analysing it all. Do you have to meet or can it be done via email or phone? Do you have to tell him about your job? I'd be going for email and that would keep it business like. As I said I'm probably not the best in this sitch. You probably need to call in Gucci again or try Stuck or Dudess.
If it has to be in person, perhaps
"There is some stuff we need to discuss. Are you able to meet this coming week? I'm happy to catch up nearer to you if it's easier and you would prefer not to come down. Perhaps we could meet somewhere?" Take out the coffee/dinner and leave him to make a suggestion
Cas
Thanks Cas - and for being so supportive on my Personal (not Peronal) Positives!!
I never know how to get Gucci - he just appears!!
I do think that you are right - I would hold hopes for more conversation than just the financial meeting so perhaps I should hold tight. It may be that H wants now to see me but just won't give in to saying so and is looking for an excuse! Who knows - afterall, he has said that he misses me at times?
I would say that yes, I do have to tell him about my job. I am frightened that he is going to find out and I have been there already, when I did the five weeks locum, recently. He went ape. He thought that I was trying to withold my financial responsiblity by not telling him. Thing is, I have a month to go before I shall get paid and if someone tells him in the meanwhile, I'm toast. It may also be seen as a 180 in that I have found a job and it will take some pressure off him - which should, in turn, take his pressure off me.
I think that what I might do is give him the choice. I will say that we can have our discussion by phone or we can meet - and leave him to decide - whether he wants to come down or for me to go to him, which has not been an option previously. That feels better ... what do you think??
That seems better. With the job, I agree to telling him but think it can be a quick email rather than something you have to do face to face.
OK then - I shall certainly give that some thought. It may be that it would set him up in a better frame of mind for when/if we do meet!
Really appreciate you being here for me today Cas - everyone else seems so quiet ... let's hope that they are all out GAL'ing, eh?!!
Yeah Nell, I have to do something about my GALing. I have tried to have low key weekends to cope with going back to work but the problem is that I am tired and a bit aimless and I don't achieve much except sleeping and lounging around and I am drawn to the pc. Not good. It's a habit I need to break!!!
Oh I am so guilty of that, my friend! What I have found helps me is to get out in to the garden ... I know that you won't be able to do much at the moment but you can take a drink and a book - the weather is changing and so you should enjoy it before it becomes to hot or flysie!
Just sit, read, drink water and let yourself drift. I think that it's a tonic all on it's own and I always feel better when I come back in. The fresh air will do you the world of good and it's great for your skin.
When we feel better, we will GAL ... just takes time after your surgery - and for me, to have a few more like-minded friends, opportunities and money!
Hi Nell
Fantastic list of positives, certainly encouraged me to do my own, although ironically they all look very similar to yours lol!
Im totally with you on the "how can he see me GAL & 180ing" when he is so far away, your one step ahead of me your H has admitted to missing you! thats a biggy means despite what he is getting from his R with OW its still missing something! my H after asking me how I was and my reply was just ok, he stated "some up days and some down days" and I so wanted to say "are you asking me or telling me about you" lol, and every time he has phoned he has been too quick to say "I spose thats my problem" when I never made it to sound like that! No matter how bad they are behaving you can guarantee they are human enough to feel sorrow, loss and guilt exactly like we do! We can only say as I saw in another post..
We are sorry it got into this mess, we take responsibility for our part, but we still want to learn from it and move on! (doing mysteriously as in they dont know if you want to move on with them or move on with someone else)
Honestly I know how hard it is, and Im getting eaten up by the possibility of another woman. Its the one thing for me that rattles my cage, although thankfully he never sees that, and I havent spoken of it all to my S and only slipped up with mother and that sure isnt going to happen again. I not only have to contend with losing my H but knowing that my own family would happily sh*t stir to make it worse..
Like you Im beginning to wonder if a bit more contact would be a good idea but Im sticking it out for a bit longer on the NC front.
Thanks Rabbit - yes, I think that I have also decided to stick it out on the nc for another week and see what happens.
I was going to email him that we could meet in the week and talk about stuff (including my new job) but on reflection, I don't think that it will hurt him to wait ... he's made me wait over enough stuff and I'm really p*ssed with him for spending our anniversary weekend with ow .. as he undoubtedly has. Thinking of that helps my resolve to withdraw my wonderful personality from him - that will teach him a thing or two! (Ha! If only).
What are you still doing here Rabbit? You should be writing that list!! Off you hop ...
So, email now sent:
"OK - thanks.
No, I haven't been bumped".
Short, blunt - mysterious???!!!
OK - well that evidently worked!!
Got an email this morning saying that H would get the info for me today (he already said that last night) and said that the insurance does not expire until December. He then added "why the urgency - I'm curious?"
Do I now ignore this or send back a reply saying "need to upgrade to business insurance" ... which would be polite and giving him the tip off about my job, or do I wait and do nothing until he has come up with the goods?!!
Have a good day, people :o)
Sorry Nell, I have been a bit behind getting around today, been fuming too much over at my thread.
I wouldn't be in a hurry to reply, wait until he gives you what you need, then you can reply.
I wouldn't be telling him you want to upgrade the cover, not just yet anyway, just say you just want to double check the type of coverage you have to make sure it is adequate. Or something like that.
I may be wrong but I just wouldn't give away too much info just yet.
Morning Nell,
Agree with Oz wait till he comes up with the insurance docs, presume he has to get them to you somehow? How ever he asks, just say its on your check list of jobs to know where you stand on these things!
Hope work goes ok today x
Thanks Oz and Rabbit - OK, so we agree on no email response then? I'm fine with that.
Hopefully, H will send that info by email Rabbit - it's only a policy number that I want and, as neighbour said to me yesterday, the company could have pulled the details from my rego. I didn't think of that but I needed to check who the company are, anyhow. I think that I know but I didn't want to get it wrong and look foolish!! It's given H something to think about, whatever the outcome!
Well, my new hair style got a mention at work today so someone noticed - shame it was a lady!
Two good things happened today 1) I got my contract of employment and 2) I got notified officially of the $amount of my tax refund!! The $s are on their way to my bank as we speak so I'm one happppppy ladeeeeee!! This gives me financial stability for quite a few months now and means that I can give H the flick if he comes pestering me about money.
I guess that I also feel better this arvo just for knowing that H must be back in town by now - he had to be at work today. He's not more than 15 minutes drive from me at work and it kills to be so close but yet so very far away.
I won't say that I have had a good day but it certainly ranks as one of the better ones, with less thinking about H and more thinking about work - it's therapeutic to a degree - or until my excess water drinking takes me off to the ladies, when my brain starts whirling again for the few moments that I am there. Just looking in the mirror as I was washing my hands made me think "oh where are you H? You don't know that I am here in this great job and you can't see how well I am coping. You can't see my lovely new hair cut or how smart I look in my new clothes. You would be so proud of me in this fabulous new role and yet .... where are you?"
Next time you look in the mirror Nell, say "your loss H" because you cant see this sassy new haircut, how good I look in this suit, and the sexy underwear thats underneath it, and how fab I am being in my new job which now enables me to tell you to go jump if your nasty about money! and keep saying it till it makes you smile!
Nell your on the way up hun, which direction is H going in "round in circles"
Good perspective Rabbit ... I shall try that one for size in the 'ladies room' tomorrow!!
Reading what Gucci said to Oz this evening, I am also wondering if H is taking any of my apparent 'couldn't care less' attitude in to his field of vision? Probably not but who ever knows what they are thinking?? I have been strong, as far as H sees things, for so long now - you know that I haven't caved.
Just been talking to someone on the phone and they made me think some more ... My H has abandoned me to absolutely NOTHING in this foreign country. How could he do that? What sort of love could he have for me to do that?
I would say none - none at all. This makes me even more determined and, if I can't get him back and I can't get even, then I shall go for it all ... in time - making him sweat on things in the meanwhile.
This worm is turning.
Yeah my little worm, with the sassy hairdo and posh suit! Exactly how I feel today, just found out hes pulled a large sum of money out of our account again, and yes he didnt even mention it.. He so wants to not be told what to do he doesnt care if he hurts me in the process.. Im only cross because my list of to do's isnt going to be that long with no money! and sassy new haircut was definately on the list!
That's the aussie spirit Nell. Don't let your H drag you down with him.
You are better than that, just look at you, you have achieved so much and without your H, we can and do survive.
Make him sweat, that is my new motto as well I think, that's a good one and it is what I intend to do make him sweat big time.
Hi Nell
You are doing great
Looking good definately helps the PMA! How is the job going?
Thanks ladeez - and welcome back ((JCJ)) - I've missed you. You OK? Job is going really well, thank you! They are planning on making me very, very busy soon but I welcome it.
Was all settled down with the furries for yet another early night when I had to see if H has emailed. I got out of bed and then found myself a revelation. H is playing games! As he said that he would provide the insurance info this evening, I reckon that he's withholding until I answer his email:
"If no claim then why the urgency? Does not expire until Dec. Just curious".
As I have not answered, guess what? No insurance details!!
Ah well, I can wait him out ... let the games begin!!
I'm back off to bed - Emmerdale and Coronation Street are waiting on me .... !!
Don't know what my thoughts are today.
Just emailed H in regard his email last week, the one where he asked to discuss finances. My response was for him to email me back with his questions as I didn't have time (as Gucci suggested). I have heard nothing from him so forwarded the email and simply asked "Have you responded to this as I have not received anything? We may need to touch base on some stuff soon".
Of course, still nothing on the insurance info either so I reckon that he's being as stubborn now as I am!
The longer that I don't see him for, the more of a challenge it becomes to hold out.
Gotta go - Cat15 is chasing a frog across the pool and I don't want a soggy moggy!!
Didn't you say you could sort the insurance stuff out without the info now Nell?
Edit: Did you say cat15??? Is that age rather than number of cats?
Yes JCJ - I can sort the insurance without H. There's just a few things cropping up and I need some input from him. You will notice that I said "touch base" rather than "will you come for a visit" - ball is in play and he can do whatever it is that he wants to do! Not that bothered right now. Ready to stay quiet for a while longer ...
Yes!! Cat15 is the age, not how many!! I have two. Cat15 who is a girl but gets called a boy (typical nurse, aren't I?) and Cat6 who is most definitely a Princess!!
You haven't posted much of your own lately??
Good, so long as he isn't holding you up.
Sometimes when you say vague things like 'touch base', 'we need to talk about a few things' etc etc it can throw the WAS into a bit of panic - they expect a relationship talk etc and it puts them back into their cave of non-responsiveness. Much better to use Gucci's wording of a few pages back.
I wouldn't do anything now, or worry about it, just for the future.
I hear that message! Won't do anything else but sit it out and wait ...
I could cheerfully throttle H right now - and lock him in his cave and throw away the key!!
H just emailed. FOUR lines!! Big wow for him!!
Upshot is that he said he had offered to discuss finances last week and I didn't want to. He suggested coming down tomorrow or Thursday.
My response: "I purely said that I didn't have time, which is quite different. Please don't misquote me. I asked that you put your comments in an email - you did not. Tomorrow is too short notice. Thursday will be fine".
Short and blunt?!!
Might I also say that this was the second time that I invited him to put his thoughts in an email but he has not, in favour of wanting a meet.
OK - so here goes now the timer is set until Thursday evening. Sassy hair, sharp suit - what else???!!!
Where's Gucci ... quick, quick!!!!
Oh gosh now youre in a tailspin too lol! I have been doing my best to stop my mind working overdrive all the way to see madam and back, put the radio on and sang as loud as I could to block the thoughts out.. Funny on the way back I thought do you know I dont actually want to see him, my life really isnt that bad as long as he keeps paying money in the account and I finally get a job! I think I need a Gucci visit too, need some sense knocking into me lol!
Hi Nell
Very good, he obviously wants to see you in person rather than communicate via email.
I wouldn't have your suit on I would have something that is dressy casual with a touch of sex appeal to it and add your best Nell smile and relaxed calm manner.
OK - so here goes now the timer is set until Thursday evening. Sassy hair, sharp suit - what else???!!!
I agree with oz about what to wear. Don't want to look like you are trying too hard.
I hope you don't find this too risque . . . but a little "self-pleasuring" just prior to your meeting will help you have that happy, relaxed attitude.
Thanks for comments Oz and Dudess. I was only planning the suit as it would be a good entry into my new work situation and saying "sorry, just got in. Put the kettle on and I shall go get changed" - then he will be wondering, before I come out in yet another new purchase - my moss coloured jeans and a sexy top!! ?????
I also thought that it may mean that H wanted to see me Oz but I have held off on that thought for fear of being let down. H says that "it's too complicated to write in an email" about the finances, so I'm not sure what he's up to, or thinking, right now.
Tonight will be that last minute spring clean of all that's bound to catch his eye. I have reinstated his BBQ back to pride of place from where he abandoned it at the side garden and I have moved the patio furniture around. He will wonder why and I am sure he will question it - two chairs have been deliberately placed in a 'cosy' position overlooking the pool!!
Preparation evening for me, when I get home then!!
Just worried how the conversation will go. Last evening I could only think negatively. Today I must concentrate on affirming his conversation but remaining firm and understanding in my responses. PMA and light attitude but not over-confident, mysterious but not dismissive. ... anything else??
I hope you don't find this too risque . . . but a little "self-pleasuring" just prior to your meeting will help you have that happy, relaxed attitude.
Doesn't sound to risque to me...
Hey Nell, have a great day at work and when you come home to get ready for tonight, remain positive, upbeat and relaxed. Believe me he will notice, my H did. I am sure it will all go well for you.
Will check in again later tonight.
All the best Nell. Think Oz and Dudess are advising beautifully!
Love Dudess comment and no its not risque! Love the change of clothing idea, he will get a double whammy on how good you look, just keep remembering to breathe and even if its not what you want to hear, remind yourself you are still playing the long game even if he isnt.. and youre right H might want to see you, but keep reminding yourself its an alien still visiting. You will be in my thoughts hun x
Thank you ladeeez! I have been having a 'trial run' in my mind all day, thinking of how tomorrow will be. I like the idea more and more of being in my suit, so it's virgin run out will be tomorrow! (Just hope that I don't spill my lunch on it)!!
Will change when H arrives - yes, definitely the double whammy approach!!
Just been out and cleaned the outdoor setting ... a few more bits to 'spruce' around the house and then I am ready ... counting down the next 24hrs.
All this for 2.5hrs of alien talk ... makes me wonder if we are right in the head, either!!
Struggling in work with all the M talk - plus two girls in the office get married within the next 3 weeks so you can just imagine it. I feel like saying "enjoy it whilst it lasts" but I sit there tight lipped and smile through my heartache. It's so palpable sometimes that it's a wonder no-one notices.
May be back later but if not, will drop a line in the morning. Have a good day/evening, wherever you are!
Hi Nell
Well today is your big day. Have a great day at work and try not to let the M talk get you down. I am lucky as I work in an office with only one other woman and she is a lot older than me, everyone else is male so I don't have to deal with M talk.
Thanks Oz - the collywobbles have already started but the house and cats are ready and I shan't be far behind!
Have a great day!
I'll be thinking of you on your big day Nell.
I'll bet you're going to do great!
Just keep remembering to breathe hun! You will be fine (hugs).
Thanks budds!!
Just waiting on H to arrive now ... still booted and suited and waiting for Runway Change #2!!
Feeling a bit sick actually ... don't know how this is going to go at all ... it's 3 weeks since we have seen each other or even had very much contact and it feels strange. Just wonder if he will initiate any 'social' conversation or whether he just wants to do the biz and get out of here. Remains to be seen.
Nervous.
Hi EN
I've been following your sitch. Good luck!
Deep breaths Nell, you'll do just fine
Thanks buddies! Even though I felt you all here with me, I panicked and have screwed up, BIG TIME.
H was lovely when he arrived and we talked like old times - save for the conversation was somewhat very different. He looked at me with a twinkle in his eye and I almost felt that there was a chance for us .... he said that he didn't even want to talk about the finances.
Then, one loose word about money and the whole thing exploded. I felt threatened and said "then put it in writing to me and I shall get my solicitor to look at it" ... of course, that led on to other stuff, I started calling him on how he can afford flights to see ow and entertaining on weekends and it all blew up in my face. H went to the garage, picked up some more of his belongings and his parting words were "I AM having the house valued and you WILL be hearing from my lawyer".
I bade him goodnight and shut the door on him - again. Now I am FUMING mad .... wasted all that great DB'ing and yet again, he goes away thinking that I am the mad cow that he thinks I am and how right he was to have done what he did. Oh, how could I have let myself down so badly after all the preparation I put in.
The evening started so well and with a positive or two (will tell you about it tomorrow) and now I am back to square one - all my own fault. Aaaargh, I could scream.
Sorry to hear it didn't go well. ((hugs)).
At what point would you say you stopped acting like a WAW?
Right breathe, you havent completely screwed up. From what you say there are some good bits, fingers crossed once he has got over his indignation and telling himself he is right that he will start to remember the good bits that happened before it went pearshaped! Make a note of the triggers for the pearshaped bits and work out a better way of dealing with them the next time it comes up. Dont beat yourself up we are all working in the dark during these times and believe me I know exactly how you feel not knowing what is going to hit me tomorrow night. Best get some advice on how to deal with a blow up from some one more qualified. Huge hugs x
I'm pretty confident that H will cool down Dudess. I didn't manage to 'act as if' at all ... it was just easy to be me and H to be H whilst we were talking about other stuff.
The minute he started to talk about a new life - moving interstate, changing jobs and all MLC stuff, I lost it! I evidently got his interest a few times as he told me that he would not discuss stuff if I continued to be 'cryptic'.
I just get so angry when he plays like a lawyer and demands yes or no answers only. He tells me that I have lied - constantly. I have not. I have been merely protecting myself and DB'ing! I haven't lied. He knows that I hate being called such and that's what rises my dander ... from there on in, I can't hold it together.
H twists words very cleverly, then makes out that it's my doing. It's so frustrating.
I thanked him tonight for all the jobs that he did here when we were together and I told him how hard I now realise that it was for him, with me giving him very little help. I really affirmed his position as a H and yet he totally rides roughshod on the sort of W that I have been - he belittles my efforts and even told me tonight that he thought that I was clinically depressed to have behaved the way I have in the past. I called him on that and said "good time to be a WAH then - I thought that our vows were in sickness and health - MINE were".
His usual comment sticks in my guts - "too little, too late - it's irreconcilable - it's dead, over, finished".
What's the point of DB'ing when someone is that done??
Thanks Rabbit. I'm so tired right now - I had a bad night last night, great day as I planned and even the start of the evening went well. With it all hitting the fan in the last going off, I am wrung out. I held it together when he was telling me about moving away and looking for a new job. I even held off exploding when I goaded him in to saying things that I didn't want to know but needed to push him towards. Why can't I just leave things alone and let him miss me? Why? Because I am afraid that he has gone and will never ever be back again.
Will write more tomorrow - I certainly hope that it goes better for you!! Forgive me dashing off. It's late and I have to take this headache and yet again shattered and broken heart to bed.
Have a good sleep and reassess, one thing I keep reminding myself was what H said to me every time I said "I dont want to lose you" he didnt mean to be unkind but his reply was "you cant lose whats already lost" as hard as that might seem its how you have to look at things, youre not losing him, you have lost him, and now you are DBing your ar*e off to get him back. And anyway you dont want back the person you lost (hes not that nice) you want a loving H back, one that doesnt undermine you or make you feel bad! Nell you are a lovely lady, I know that because you have stuck by me thick and thin, and you dont know me from adam! Chin up tomorrow is another day, and Operation DB starts again..
Hi Nell
I am really sorry it don't go as well as planned, but we have all been there and done that, it is unfortunately what happens when emotions get the better of us.
Tomorrow is another day and a chance to pick yourself up and start over again. Don't lose heart Nell.
(((((((Nell)))))
Well followers, last night was a coup, at first!
Sitting here booted and suited ... waiting and waiting. Finally I could take it no more. I blew out the candles and got in the car, racing off before H could arrive and see me! I was FURIOUS that he was so late. It was 18.45hrs when I came back around the corner to find him sitting in the car on the drive - I got out of the car, on the phone naturally (!!) and he unlocked the door for us to come in - listening all the while but not saying a word.
I put the kettle on and asked him to make the tea whilst I got changed in to my (new) jeans.
H - you've changed your hair
Me - mmm - do you like it?
H - it's a lot to get used to - it's a big change
Me - I love it, really happy, makes me feel the sassy girl I am!
H - ah.
Jeans on, tea made, H looking every bit the MLC man with a long sleeve shirt and jeans on, black shoes - totally unco-ordinated, 'don't-know-what-this-man-is-thinking' look about him! Conversation kicks off and no mention of money. He's telling me he's off to Sydney on a work trip, work is becoming mundane, wants to move interstate, change job etc. Will be moving out of his unit in February when lease runs out and then would be a good time to 'change everything'. I made some quip about ow, could have bitten out my tongue and he responded as we can imagine he would.
Settled down, told me I was being cryptic in my responses, accussed me of lying about things over the years (I SWEAR that I have not). Before I knew it, I was breaking every rule to get him to hear me. I get so frustrated when he backs me into a corner and won't hear me out - I just give up and then retaliate later.
Positive conversation commenced and H agreed that he needed to concentrate on some practical aspects around the home and that he would do that very soon, helping out with maintenance etc. He fixed a cupboard door which was working it's way loose at this juncture! He made another cup of tea and asked me if it was OK to take a plastic jug and a whisk from the cupboard. For goodness sakes, how much would that have cost him to replace?!!! I agreed but as we then started arguing, he didn't take said items, nor did he fix the clock on the DVD player for me (I can't work out how to set it)!!
On to finances and H starts to say that he will pay half of necessary bills but not gas, electric, phone, food, Foxtel etc ... my worry now that I have a job. Explained that it was temporary and he said that we would look at things again then but it was too late - the touchpaper had been lit and we were both escalating things to a point from which we knew there would be no return that night. I mouthed off about ow and ... well, I saw the smoke from his heels.
I went to bed with a banging headache, couldn't sleep, felt sick, felt the last few weeks to have all been a waste of good DBing, with nc on my part.
This morning, after having spent a restless night, I felt even more sick. Got in to work and text him saying that I was sad it had all fallen apart again when we were doing so well. I told him that I felt threatened by his conversation and so retaliated. I said that we do need to have the financial conversation and that we should try again. H text straight back and said "OK - I shall email you" - so not sure if that's to make another 'date' or whether he intends to put his suggestions in an email.
Felt better all day and almost like he had agreed to come home, that's how good the conversation was before it went pearshaped - not that he said that he would, because he very definitely did not. It was just that comfortable feeling of being together like old times and the way that he looked at me. He was not saying ILY but his eyes and posture were. I know my H!!
H was really encouraging about the new job and wanted to know where, what, why and when - then started suggesting 'rat runs' to free me from the freeway traffic. I cut him off, laughing, mid-sentence and said "so you don't like my hair then?" *giggling* ... H laughed too for a split second and replied "I didn't say that but then you twist my words on everything, don't you?", so I take it that he does like it but felt that he had almost got sucked into 'normality'.
Overall, I feel a bit better today and even though I know that he went on a one night 'holiday' with ow, I feel good knowing that he has not been interstate since beginning of August. I also feel good knowing that he is alone this weekend - and that he misses the cats so very much!!
So DB'ers ... what's my next move? Do I do more of the nc and risk another 3 empty weeks or more, or do I take the chance of a weekly email .... phone call .... text occasionally - what?? I just don't know which way to go now but I do know that I have to readdress my pulling him so sharply from the cave last night and I have to allow him to go back in there - for a good while.
Oh, funny thing. When I asked him about the insurance stuff, he said that he had called the company and asked for a copy of the policy, which they sent to him at his unit. H rang and explained the situation and they are now sending it out to me BUT he said that he was going to ring them this morning to intercept them sending it out and he would change my insurance for me. I didn't ask him to do this and I am amazed that he just went ahead. I told him that I could do it myself and he said "OK" so I don't know if he has now, or not! Thing is, it was just wonderful that he was going to .... that's a small baby step, is it not??
Its funny but being cryptic/mysterious really bugs them doesnt it, its almost laughable that they dont want us but still want to know what we are doing to apease their guilt, so when we dont play ball they are left in limbo the same as us! I used to tell H everything, infact you know the scenario in the 5LL book about one being a talker and the other a listener well that is H and me, I fill holes with words, well not anymore, I leave holes for him to fill and worry about lol. It seems like things were going well and I like the way you emailed him but didnt apolagise just said it was sad, probably verifying how he feels about the whole thing too. Now I'd wait for the email, you cant move until you know if its more contact or more unpleasantries. I'd go with a little more contact if he's nice, withdraw if he is not. Do you know how to send piccies of the cats doing daft things on your phone.. I know our H's miss the moggies and one thing my H said in passing in the first few weeks was he liked to see piccies of my little girlie. Its contact but non pursuing, just a gentle reminder of who else he has left behind. ooh and keep that hairdo going that definitly rattled him, I hope mine works as well! Will try and report in later but if not wont be till H has gone some time saturday.
Hi Nell,
I wouldn't be contacting him again now, I would wait for him to contact you again, otherwise you will look like you are pursuing again particularly as it all ended the way it did.
He obviously noticed the changes in you which is a good sign but it is this keeping the emotions and impatience in check that is hardest for us.
I know it is hard but try not to dwell on how bad it turned and try to focus on the good points and learn from that. Remember more of what works and less of what doesn't.
I'm laughing Oz - "more of what works ... " Unlike the aliens, I've only got one head of hair to cut and that's the only thing that did appear to work on Thursday *lol* !!!!
Rabbit - I have done the photo of the cats thing previously and he didn't like it one bit! He said that it was emotional blackmail so, whilst I hear you, it didn't work in my case. Talking of such however, I did ask him on Thursday about the video he emailed with a cat and his comment that it was the cutest thing in the world that he had ever seen. I reminded him that his own cats do things 10 times more cute than in the video. H looked sad at that comment, got up, played with Cat15 and then picked him up, hugged him tight and kissed him. He said that he knew that his cats were much lovlier but all he meant was that in the 'internet' scheme of things, it was the cutest he had come across. H does miss the cats and he said that he had been really sad about them last week. He misses them more than he does me, that's for sure - he didn't play with me, pick me up or give me kisses!!
What I did hear from H was that he WANTS it to be all about him just now. I was saying something to him and he retorted sharply saying "see, it's always about you. I said something and you dismissed it just to tell me how that affected YOU. Well, I wasn't talking about you, I was talking about ME". After having said that, he was very concerned about my latest 'injury' which is a very sore finger (sounds pathetic but it's really debilitating)!!
Hearing that H wants it all to be about him, I was mindful of affirming his words (his LL) and when H said that he was tired and looking forward to a good lie in today I decided that I would email him last evening to say that I hoped his weekend was restful. I also put in a few lines about the cats and the frog that has taken up residence on top of the pool blanket but it was light and humorous. That done, I shall now go quiet again ... and wait.
This is the clincher for me though - I have to work on listening and saying more about him. I think that it's all too easy to become embroiled in our own misery and when the WAH is here, they get both barrels instead of seeing the opportunity - I missed the mark totally on Thursday but typing this now, I see what I should have done. Doh! Positive side of this is that I know there will be another opportunity - just don't know when it will be.
Yes Oz, trying not to dwell is the hardest part. I was only thinking yesterday that I wish I had a $ for every moment that I have spent thinking about him since the end of May. Literally, I don't think there's more than 5 minutes in a day where he is not constantly on my mind. I always knew that I loved him but this is so torturously painful, loving someone so damned much and your love being totally unrequited.
Today is library morning with J. We are then going for coffee on the beach front. It's a bit 'samey' but at least we are out and getting some fresh air. Another wet spring day here and I just think what a waste it is that H is rattling around on his own, lonely as I know that he will be, and me here this afternon, rattling around in our big home, lonely too. What's wrong with this picture????!
That's right Nell all they care about at the present is themselves, what they want, it is all me me me me, no one else matters they are in a little world all their own.
At the very least you have worked out what went wrong and how you should have handled it.
Hope you have a great day, coffee on the beach front sounds nice, enjoy.
Thanks Oz - we didn't go for coffee after as it was persisting down with rain! Went back to J's instead and had a cup of tea and a slice of cake. Then went to do some shopping alone as J said that she may come for lunch tomorrow - and I haven't a thing in the house (fresh stuff). I needed to shop so it pushed me to do so.
You know the me, me, me thing even extends past what they want and they then start to get in to blame, blame blame mode. H went in to the garage on Thursday night and, seeing that I had spilled the tiniest drop of garden fluids on the floor he came back in and said "oh, and you have stained the garage floor really badly, too" ... for all he knows, it may well wash off! He hadn't even considered that it may not have been me who had done that (although it was!) but let's not worry about the oil that he tipped a while back and cause a patch twice the size.
Reading other people's threads help to work out what I did wrong and constantly reminding myself of what I should be doing, helped too.
Embarrassing situation at the library this morning when I checked out some new books. The woman shouted out across the desk "you have an overdue book - it's called DB" .... I explained that it was to be rechecked out and that I had it there for her to scan. It was like she was getting some intense pleasure from saying the DB words over and over, loud enough for people in the next state to hear. I wanted to smash her with the book and say, "yeah, and you never know when it will come visiting you so I would shut up right now if you know what's good for you". I guess that's just how touchy I am about the whole subject.
Ah well. That's another day almost over, though I hate seeing my life passing before me in this perspective. I should be enjoying myself but it's too difficult living here in this isolation. What's to become of me, I just don't know.
Hope that the rest of you are all doing OK today.
Hi Nell
Sorry you didn't get to have coffee by the beach, but coffee anywhere is better than at home by yourself.
Never mind about the library incident, no one knows you, but I know it is embarrassing at the time, people really don't think at all do they.
Hugs Nell it would be easier if you weren't in such an isolated spot I know. We are here but I know it isn't the same.
Oh man - that library lady was EVIL! Seriously that is one of my fears about checking out or buying relationship/divorce books from the store and library.
Sounds like you are getting yourself on track. It's so hard to remember to react differently - came close to a slip-up myself last night but think I recovered quickly. Remember that you are making these changes to how you treat him for yourself! Hopefully it will save the marriage...but worse, worse case you will have the tools to have a great next relationship.(Although not something you're likely ready to consider right now.)
Hang in there - change takes time...but this is for YOU so you have forever!
Oh Nell I so would have said what you thought to that library lady, or at least but there by the grace of god go you and hopefully others will be on your side and not make an announcement of it!
Keep at it take stock of what is good and what is bad! Im not so sure that I should have let things go as far, but it felt right in the moment and when I wibble I remember Dia's thread where the DB coach said she just loved it when H's started having an affair with their W.
Thanks Oz, Buttercup and Rabbit for the support.
I'm feeling pretty grotty today. I don't sleep much past 5am and the waking thoughts are always the same.
Stripped the bed as soon as I got out of it this morning (which really hurts my fingers at the moment) and whilst disrobing H's pillow, I thought what a waste it was of even putting a pillow case on it in the first place. That's not the only thing not getting any action these days!
It's another dark and miserable day here - I guess it will brighten later but it doesn't help your mood when all is feeling glum.
I just read Cas's post and the comments from Sanderika REALLY got me to thinking about whether I want to hang on and 'wait and see' or do I take the control back from H and force the situation by telling him that I intend to go back home and file? I think that he would be upset about that as he has already commented on how disadvantaged it would make him.
Next thought is, do I ask to see him so that we can finalise these arrangements on our finances and then drop my own bomb on him? Maybe it would give him something to think about rather than me having to feel so powerless all the time.
I still love my husband but I am so sick of living this way.
Thoughts please??
I haven't read all your story so I don't know what you have done in terms of getting legal advice. Are you sure that you could go back to the UK & file for divorce there?
I would say protect yourself legally and financially first and foremost. Do not use legal action or the threat thereof as an emotional bargaining chip. Telling the other person what legal action you intend to take is often a grave mistake. Take the action, first.
I am reading a good book now called "The Powerful Self" by Steven Stosny,, the same guy who does the abusive relationship work. It has a lot of exercises and it is really helping me move out of those feelings of powerlessness. You might want to check it out.
Hang in there Nell. ((hugs))
Dudess, I appreciate you dropping by and the suggestion of the book. I shall check it out when I go to the library next. (Will ring them and ask them to get it for me, if it's not already in stock).
I have checked my legal position both in the UK and here in Aus. If I file in the UK, it means that it would over-ride if H were to file here in Aus. He hasn't mentioned the D word since June. He's not sure where his life is taking him and I don't think that D is a priority in any case. He says that he would never M again.
H is living his bachelor life-style and that's all that he's concerned about. He's not 100% happy with ow - there's a problem but I can't get to the root of it. I think that it may purely be because the tramp lives interstate and that makes life not quite so easy (and expensive, hence he pushes me on the financial aspect from time to time).
I don't want to take this action at all because I would just love for him to come home. I feel confident that we could work it out but H is adamant that he is done - or is that the aliens just telling him so? I don't know what to do hence I sit here and continue to DB, try to GAL and work through my pain.
Meanwhile, life is ticking by and that's another month gone before I turn around. My DB efforts fall on stony ground all the time - H just does not respond to whatever I try. I see other DB'ers making great progress (even if slow) but I never have anything good to report and I am really starting to feel sorry for myself all over again.
I just don't know what to do next. There was a slight improvement in H's mood when I did the nc thing for 3 weeks and he did speak more freely about our R when he came to see me. Trouble is, it was all said nicely but the message remained negative. I have to start believing that he is done.
Today I was all for emailing and requesting a meeting to tell him that I am done too (I'm so not!) but I have changed my mind and think that nc again is just the way to go. Detaching and hoping that it will do something ... even though I am pretty confident that it will not.
Woe is me :o(
This has led me to more thoughts.
H told me that he has been struggling for years and has been slowly dying in our M. He believes that we have grown apart and I have never heard his cries for us to get help. In my naivety, I never believed that he felt as he evidently did and I never, ever believed that he would leave me.
H never protested very loudly - he just kept his distance as he always did. He loved me at arms length and was never unkind, unreasonable or showed anything that would let anyone (least of all me) know that anything was wrong.
H stated that he was confused as to how come I was so blindsided when he dropped the bomb.
Now I feel that I have woken up to his misery and I hear what he is telling me. I feel cheated as he has not allowed us to work on our M and he has made the choice to walk away with no looking back, no consideration for how I feel and having drawn a line well and truly in the sand. I feel that ow is a symptom of his mlc and purely validation of what he felt he was lacking from me. However, I am getting more worried the longer that it goes on.
How do I go forward with someone who believes that they are done?
Where else do you have to go but forward, Nell?
He is speaking from the same script as they all do, line by line. No matter how unhappy he was, or what terrible things you did to him, or whatever it is, he doesnt get an excuse, an A is never justified. My H actually told me that he didnt think that I would mind!
I had the same feelings when I really realized that he had been unhappy for a long time. But I think that all you can do here is validate what hes saying, but still stay detached enough to not let him cake eat. And dont beat yourself up over it. As your H, it was his responsibility to come to you and tell you what was going on with him. You couldnt make that choice for him any more than you can make this one for him.
Im sorry that your having a hard time right now, it will get better, I promise.
Thanks BR. I agree with you totally - you know the hardest part for me is that H doesn't see himself as having an A as he told me that our M was over before he did anything about it ... and I DO ABSOLUTELY believe him. Makes it all the harder though as he now believes that he is RIGHT to be doing what he is doing and can not understand me when I say that what he is doing is illegal and immoral. He questioned me on it the other evening, when I spat the words at him. He just looks at me with an aliens eyes and says that I am deluding myself.
He keeps telling me not to confuse the two issues. He says that he told me our M was over and then, he admits with poor timing, he was propositioned by the tramp. Fool him accepted and fool me for having allowed myself to be forced out of the country to allow it to happen.
I could kick myself sometimes for having acted as I did. I should have stayed here and toughed it out but he said "if you love me let me go" - and yet I was the stupid one to leave. I'm so glad that I took bmf's advice and came back.
H is actively encouraging me to go and have an A or start dating. Yeuck - the thought sickens me but of course, this would merely assuage his guilt. Not playing that game.
Feeling really wrung out today. Have had gf, her D and GD around for lunch but it took everything out of me. They haven't been to my home before (new gf) and they were saying how lovely it was and what a fool H was to have jumped ship when he has all of this at his finger tips. Just kind of made me feel worse. Now that they are gone, I'm so very alone ......... I'm feeling so broken and fragile at the moment.
It's taking me all that I have not to phone H and say "I want to speak with you - I want to work on this together - I know that you are not happy right now but we CAN be in the future" - all the wrong things, I know - and I won't do it but the temptation is so great. I'm sure that you have all been where I am today.
Lesson: don't drink wine with gf at lunch time!
Right Miss Nell, its boot up the b*m time.. YOU are showing progress whilst H is still going round in circles. Believe me my H said all the same things and made me feel as guilty that I hadnt seen/realise/heard all the pain he was in, and also I dont for one minute think that a good majority of it came from his heart (not just the script) I totally hear you about H's affair, a marriage is not finished until a divorce has been issued and then you can have someone else! Perhaps you need to find a new way to say that when he goads you, make it sound more legally termed that emotionally termed.
Now which second of conversation, set off the unpleasantries, think back on it not in a woe is me mindset but a how do I play the H at his own game mind! Make a list when you have a minute of all the hurtful things H is likely to say and then get your own combat answer! It can be anything from an Hmmm, a dont know, let me think about! and of course if anytime you cant think of an answer if a bit of panic sets in a script answer is always handy. Ooh and dont forget the old chestnut, grasp stomach and profess you need the bathroom urgently and leg it lol!
If you dont mind me saying and believe me this is said with love! Send H to coventry for a week, it wont hurt him to stew a bit and make him think about why when things were going well and he obviously was enjoying a bit of verbal footsie (wink) that one word from him validated his script.. You have another week in your new job, breathe in those confidence moments and remind yourself of them all week. You say now you feel done with him, well start acting done, (you dont have to do it) one of things I said to H at the weekend was that I felt like that sixteen year old schoolgirl again but with a forty years olds knowledge and a wink of course.. I know how hard it is, but you have got to find a way to ignore/stop/avert H's harmful words touching you, and only you know whats the best way to do that.
We are all here to support each other, so make this plan of action week and bounce of all of us your ideas, and start to visulise you acting them out! Just like you had your run through this week. You are right H is struggling the OW if she is pulling all the "I need you" "I miss you" "Cant you come see me" "If you love me you will find the money" stunts his life is gonna be hell. So you do the opposite, dont think of it as funding his affair but more showing him OW is hassle and Nell is easy/fun/comfortable to be with! As my dear mate would say "keep at it chicken, only you know if he is worth it" and Im sorry if I sound like Im nagging x
Good old Rabbit - the kick in the derriere that I probably need! I will read again through your words and try to formulate a plan - there is a lot of sense in there. It's just difficult to take it all in when the fog is upon you!
I know that you are right though and I will do as you say.
Thanks for sticking with me Rabbit ... it's a real see-saw as well as a roller coaster, isn't it?
Just feeling really sick today. I can't believe that he is sat there all on his lonesome and thinking that is better than being with his family here .... how can they WANT to live like this??
Cos hes an ALIEN!
Let the fog drop have a nice Nell evening then lets "go to war" ((NELL))
You have picked this stuff up so quickly Rabbit!!
Reading some other threads and hearing what you are telling me, I have decided to drop the rope for now. I am just going to live out my life - I am now paying more than my own way in regard the bills (H is still paying half mortgage to protect his interests). I am going to see this out and to the dogs with him!
Today is Day Two of being dark (again)!! No wonder I feel so sick - been here before - it's getting like a roundabout!
Just a little positive spin on "Going Dark" shall we rename it "National Nell Week/s"
Let him get on with enjoying his lonely lonely life and you just continue to enjoy all that Nell has that he hasnt! Like his cat for a start! x
True enough my friend!!
Was just emailing new gf and told her that I am the one sitting pretty right now. I am paying more than half of the bills here (my expenses, as H demanded) and he is unable to sell the house without my agreement, so there's nothing else for him to threaten me with.
Who's in control .... ? Ah, that would be me!!!!!!
Thanks (((Rabbit))) - I feel a little better.
I keep reading about setting boundaries and feel that I should maybe look at some of my own. Thing is, how do I do it??
I have asked for the keys for the house - H refuses on the grounds that this is still legally his home even though he chooses not to live in it (I could say that in the same vein, I demand to have my H on my keyring, as we are still legally married)!!
I have asked him not to flounce out if he gets upset when we talk but he says that he will not stay here and be abused (he takes any negative word about himself or ow as abuse).
I just don't think that I am in the position to set down any boundaries really - unless you guys know otherwise ... how can you put boundaries on a WAS who has nothing much to do with you??
You need to set some boundaries. Why can't he give the key back? Do you have keys to his place, can you come and go there as you wish? NO of course you can't, so he shouldn't be able to do that to you. Put it to him like that. Maybe suggest that you wouldn't want him walking in when you were 'entertaining' remember he has to believe that you've moved on. Good luck
Nell whilst I see your point of setting some boundaries, IMHO asking for his keys back is asking for trouble, it is his house after all and he is paying half the mortgage, start small with boundaries, perhaps ask that he only comes into the house when you are there, you could perhaps also ask for a bit more respect about the finances now you are paying and you would like to have information without question and quickly! Also have a rethink on how you can better put your sentance about him "not having a hissy fit and running out" as that could be one too! Hope you have a nice day at work tomorrow and that things look brighter for you.
Nell, if he doesnt want to give the key back, or respect your boundaries change the lock. Most importantly, dont ask him to do something that he wont, dont ask him to respect a boundary that you wont or cant enforce.
I was lucky, I asked my H to please let me know when he was going to be at the house and he complied, but to be honest, I didnt ask for the key back, but he moved across the continent. It was tough because I had the same thought that Rabbit just mentioned, but he chose to not live there anymore, so its not really his home anymore. I think that a big part of it is him trusting you enough to not deny him access if he needs it.
Tried that one Bonny and he just continues to say NO and then walks out. I can't take the key as it's on his keyring which always stays firmly planted in his pocket when he is here.
Legally, I have no rights and he knows that - it's what he's feeding off - he knows that I am powerless over this one. H has said that he won't come in to the house if he knows that I am not here and I do trust that he will not, but I don't see that it's fair. As you say, I'm not even allowed to know where he is living.
I am just appealing to his sense of fairness and aliens don't play that game. I'm stuffed on this one, basically.
Good one, Rabbit. Yes, I do need more respect now that I have proven to H that I am paying my way. I shall put that to him next time.
Gotcha in regards him flouncing out the door. That's down to me really as he says that he will stay and discuss anything but not if I am being abusive! I have to say, I am guilty of that at times but I do have a self-confessed anger management problem when it comes to having ow pushed in my face or my H moving across the continent - who wouldn't, be fair?!!
Guess that I need to get some smart remarks ready for that very sentence next time he tries it out on me.
OK - work beckons so have a good day all and I shall try to catch up later before I am out GAL'ing - aka, coffee at neighbours!
Thanks Bluerain.
I've looked at changing the locks but there are five main entry points to the home and it would cost a heap! I also know H and if I did this, he would take action against me. He's a placid and calm man but if you cross his boundary, he turns BIG TIME!
I hear your message on not asking things that he won't comply with or that I can't enforce ... that's worthy of lots more thought on my behalf and will be my 'topic of the day' to ponder.
I have to say, H has respected his own statement of not entering without me being here and I know that he trusts me to the last - except for telling me where he is living but of course, that has other ramifications. In all other matters, we both maintain the utmost trust in one another, even though mine does have a slight question mark in the background these days!
I keep reading about setting boundaries and feel that I should maybe look at some of my own. Thing is, how do I do it??
I have asked for the keys for the house - H refuses on the grounds that this is still legally his home even though he chooses not to live in it (I could say that in the same vein, I demand to have my H on my keyring, as we are still legally married)!!
I have asked him not to flounce out if he gets upset when we talk but he says that he will not stay here and be abused (he takes any negative word about himself or ow as abuse).
I just don't think that I am in the position to set down any boundaries really - unless you guys know otherwise ... how can you put boundaries on a WAS who has nothing much to do with you??
You don't put boundaries
on anyone, you put them
around yourself. A boundary is not an attempt to control anyone else's behavior. A boundary is the
action you will take to protect yourself.
If you can't win the battle of the keys, don't go there. You can't make him stay and talk with you. All you can do is decide what you are going to take care of Nell.
Hey Nell
If you really want to pursue this lock thing then look into the legal ramifications. You don't want him to turn around and not pay the mortgage or something. Pick your battles.
Plus it is difficult to set boundaries with a WAS. Again, pick your battles. I know it is hard to let go but you can't control him at this time. It is easier to set boundaries, for example, if they are being openly disrespectful to you rather than creating, for want of a better word, trouble.
This time is about you, concentrate on you and your well-being. If you are planning a period of dark again, focus on what you can do yourself to help with detaching and keeping hold of your emotions for your next encounter. If you fill this time with GAL you will find it will help with your next meeting with your h. I know you are limited but check your local library board - mine is full of yoga groups, Tai Chi, Choir etc.
Hi Nell
Sorry I haven't been around much this weekend. I don't think I would be asking for keys or changing locks, I know how you feel but you don't want to look less attractive to him than the OW and doing this could be perceived as just being a plan "b@!*#" which you aren't and you certainly don't want to look like one.
You will really have to work on keeping your emotions in check as hard as it is, it is the one thing that will undo every ounce of good work that you put in. Maybe yoga or something like that is what would be good for you, do you have a community centre or such where you are or one nearby that runs classes such as those.
I know how hard it is to keep a lid on emotions, believe me I have been there and done that.
Have a great day at work Nell. Talk to you later.
Hi Nell,
I've heard nearly everything your H said from my H too.
Re the locks; I didn't ask for the key, just the courtesy of him telling me if and when he was going into the house. He did honour that.
Thanks to all the buddies for above responses. I think that I understand boundaries more now and I see that there are precious few that I can instill, rather insist on maintaining respectful contacts from H toward me.
Coming home to a letter from the real estate agent made me panic. It was addressed in our joint names and looked like an appointment to come value our home. I was really upset as I thought that H had carried out his threat and this was the formal notification. It was purely a mailshot.
It got me to thinking about what I would do, when and if that appointment date comes. If someone turns up at the door unannounced, I shall certainly turn them away. I feel that my favoured option would be to tell the agent that they are wasting their time as I have no intention of selling. This would work, unless H accompanies them to our home. Then I would have to let them proceed.
I have totally gone off the idea of getting the key back off H. I don't want him to pull out of paying the mortgage so will just trust him to honour his word not to come here when I am not. It seems that he is happy to do that, as he waited on the drive on Thursday night so the evidence for trusting him was there.
Periods of panic set in today whilst I was sat in a meeting (I didn't have much involvement so it was easy to let my mind wander). I was thinking about you all being in the same situation at work and wondering if you were concentrating as little on your jobs as I was on mine! I also had a vision of H having taken off his Wedding Ring and to me that speaks volumes. It made me feel so sick. I put up the red stop sign and tried to get involved in the meeting again but I can't help thinking that it is the biggest action of all that tells me he isn't coming home.
I know that things can be reversed but you can't help how you feel at the time.
Off out for coffee with neighbour this evening.
Well done on getting through the RE panic and getting your mind back on track into the meeting! What is it with us girls if an emergency at work came up we wouldnt panic, we'd say we know our job, we are trained, we can do this and we would bounce into action and save the day! Well thats how Im trying to approach all of this, what I was doing didnt work, it chased H out of the house and left me on my own, so now if something comes up which is going to challenge (panic) me I think this is my job (a wife who is repairing her marriage) I need to bounce into action with confidence and a smile, H must have been gobsmacked when I didnt bite on the "Ive only got two weeks to work" all I said "I know youre trying hard to find a new one" The key for me is to go through all the challenge possibilities and think of positive answers.. The more I practise the easier it gets I hope! Hope the rest of your day was good and sorry for waffling on I seem to be on a roll this morning
That's my homework this week ... thinking of challenging questions from H and working on my responses! I'm full of quick smart answers for any other situation - I totally work off the hoof in a lot of situations and it never fazes me. When it comes to H, different kettle of fish.
H knows me all to well. He knows my modus operandi and he knows when I am bluffing ... he also knows that when I cut people off, that's their last. I wonder if he thinks that is what I have done, each time I initiate nc??
Day 3 with nc today. Tomorrow I have to go work visiting in the suburb where he has his 'bachelor pad'. He will be at work for sure but I will be cruising and wondering where his place is ... it's gonna hurt knowing that I'm in his new stomping ground.
Ok can see you spending a lot of time infront of the mirror going over your replies, dont forget to add a slightly naughty
As for tomorrow, your thoughts need reprogramming, youre not visiting his batchelor pad ground.. No no! You are in the area where your slightly delusional alien H lives, and remember that he is not living hunky dory and full of fun and joy, he is getting it in the neck from OW and has no one to cuddle every night! Or your own slightly adapted version lol
Just off for my evening C session. Been flat out like a lizard drinking today - will try to check in later.
Hi Nell
I hope your C session goes well for you tonight. You seem to be coping quite well now and have bounced back after the other night. See now you're up and I am back down again, we all seem to be in cycles as one or two are up there are another two that are down and some that are just stuck in the middle.
Morning Nell
Hope your C session goes well later, and that your drive around H's area isnt too painful! Will pop by later!
Hey Oz
Well, C was OK tonight after almost a two week hiatus with no sessions due to work.
Biggest challenge was that C has gone from believing that H is done to thinking that he may be having a change of heart by the way that he offered to do a few things for me last week (fix the insurance and the cupboard door)!
Anyhow, she suggested that I write him a letter telling him some precious memories that I have and how they are my gift that I will carry from our M through my life. She said that I should not expect an answer and that when I present him with the letter at the end of our next meeting (goodness knows when that will be) I should tell him that it is my gift to him. I kind of know where she was going but I'm not sure that he would accept the letter with good grace. I may just do it as an exercise and to see how much I can muster - she wants me to monitor my feelings as I am writing. What do you guys think of this??
C was saying that she thinks H pulls back at the end of all of our meetings as he is feeling too comfortable and may be frightened that he will give in to his feelings. I don't know.
I'm kind of feeling stuck in the middle right now - not feeling very up as it's Day 4 of n/c and today was really difficult, but that leads me in to answering Rabbit's post.
Well Nell
You C is probably right that he is having a change of heart even a small one. But on the letter idea I don't know, I remember you saying he did not like it when you gave him pictures/updates of your cats. He may view the letter the same way and as a subtle way of pursuing.
But see for my H that would have been a good thing in hindsight but your situation and your H are entirely different. I certainly wouldn't rush into this just yet. Wait and see what others think about this.
Hey Rabbit
Counselling was OK (see reply to Oz) but today was a real rip of the old heart as I drove first past H's old work place and then straight past where his new office is. It was so tempting to turn the corner and drive right by to just see his car, or even call him and say "look out of the window"!! It would have been so much fun at any other time and, as it was lunch time, I would have even asked him to come eat with me. Instead, I drove on.
On the way back, I imagined myself driving there in his car, as I used to if I had the SUV for any reason. Now, it feels like it's a forbidden place for me to go and I stay away like there's barbed wire all around the office building. I was scared, I think, as if his car had not been there I would have panicked. H often goes on a little 'trip' during the day if he has any chance to get out of the four walls but the damage it would have done to me if his car wasn't there was not worth the risk.
After having driven past both office buildings, I then drove through the suburb where he is living. Knowing not exactly where, every unit looked like it could have potential for being 'his'. I had to take this route to get to the place where my afternoon meeting was - there was just no avoiding it.
Feeling like I needed a treat and passing by the opportune lighting shop, I pulled in and attempted to buy a pair of 'touch control' bed lamps. The shop didn't have them in stock but kindly rang a store nearer to me so that I can pick them up tomorrow. My treat to me for almost having finished two weeks at work and having spent nearly all my tax refund on house bills. Who can afford to GAL?!! Not me!
I could almost feel his breath on me, I was that close to him. Now I am 60kms away.
Tonight I drove down the newly opened freeway extension, loving it and thinking of all the conversations that we had about when it opened. It opened on Sunday after we have watched every bit of it being built over the last 18 months.... and then I drive it on my own, for the first time. I felt as lonely as I could ever be and so scared too when a section of it was in complete darkness. They have put a big truck inspection bay in (really unusual for around here) and there are those beautiful "runway blue" lights as road markers. H would have been impressed as we both love that colour of the cat-eyes and I just wanted to come home and email him about it. I know that it's a silly thing but it's something that we would have chatted loosely about - those 'nonsense' topics that mean nothing but kind of finish off something that has been going on for a long time.
So, more dreams last night and equally as diagnostic of my situation as the previous ones were. It's so freaky.
My gf back home also said that she had been to a clairvoyant who told her that a very close friend is having martial difficulties but next year would be a better year. B is absolutely convinced that this was meant for me. How is it going to be better though?? I told her that if I KNEW 100% that H was coming home, I would be GAL'ing like a go-go girl right now. Would any of us really be this heartbroken if we knew that our WAS was coming back?? I think not.
OK - so it's off to bed for me. More out and about tomorrow and then quiet on Thursday when the whole office go on a "planning" day, that I have not been invited to!! Instead, I have been nominated to stay 'home' and take all the office phone calls - the damned cheek of it!! Ergo, Nell plans to stock up on books and do nothing but read her way through the day whilst being in the new role of telephone operator!!
Ciao bella's - catcha's tomorrow.
Nell, I'm a bit concerned that if H is pulling back a little when he gets too comfortable that he may be pressured by the letter. I am only saying this from my own experience which H has reiterated today. He feels pressure from me and it does make him pull back. I'm concerned that the letter may have the same effect. By all means write it and keep it in a drawer until you feel confident that it's the right move.
Huge hugs Nell its certainly sounds like a tough day today! I can see where your councellor is going but as H seems so hesitant even declaring memories that you will cherish could only see the back end of him disappearing in a dust pile, certainly write it and hang onto it as it may have its place later on!
In the first two weeks my H went off on his "test separation" we had agreed not to contact each other and it was before I found my way here, I used to write a letter to him each evening on my laptop, only one was sent to him but it didnt do any good unfortunately all I got was a cold I understand but quite frankly dont care reply!
Hope tomorrow puts a bigger smile on your face!
I agree Oz.
I do think that my H waivers at times but he has made his move so he now considers that he has to see it through. He is resolute at this time.
I feel the same way about the letter - that's why I thought that to do it as an exercise may be good for me but without actually giving it to him.
I may just write it and lock it away somewhere. Will be good to get the thoughts out and may even induce me to cry some. I SO need to cry - I'm like a pressure cooker well over-due to explode.
Exactly Cas - I should have read your post before replying to Oz .. !! Thank you. That really does make sense.
What is it with these men and their pulling back all the time?
Seems like we are all agreed on the letter writing.
I hear you Rabbit. I wrote a huge email to H when I got back to the UK - pouring it all out. It did nothing and infact only incurred his wrath over several points, which he viewed differently to me.
I may have a go at the letter over the weekend but it will be for me only.
The pull back has been a big part with my H and my honest reflection is that I got the pullback whenever he sensed he had let himself come too close and whenever I put too much pressure on him.
Nell, just a thought when you write the letter and you have finished, burn it, don't keep it, just burn it. The thoughts and feelings are out and then gone.
I'm wondering Cas if this is pullback from my H or not - I don't think that he cares enough one way or another. I just think that he is so over all of this and wants me to move out of the house and for our finances to be severed. He knows that I won't play that game right now and his actions are to remain distant and with nc to me unless I initiate, or a problem arises that he has to contact me first. I reckon he could easily walk and never look back otherwise, such is the evidence.
Oz, people say about burning the thoughts but it's never really worked for me, to be honest. I have issues with lots of counselling techniques, even the ones that I have recommended to others - like putting your thoughts in a balloon and letting them fly away! I just think that what is in my head and heart will always stay there - there's no getting rid and even now, years later, I am still haunted by stuff that my first love said and did. Nothing helps me shed this stuff - and I have been with H twice as long as xbf.
Tomorrow will be such a temptation to ring H as I shall be in the office alone for the whole day. It's a week since I have seen him and I am feeling the withdrawal symptoms - badly. I wish that things were different for us. I get a bit jealous of you buds that have contact, LM'ing and other such encounters with your H's. I am beginning to wonder if I should stick around for a bit longer or just give up this whole DB'ing lark now - it's not getting me anywhere other than to eat up a few hours of my time each day.
I'm wondering if there's any substance to it or whether it's just all about making us feel better for the individuals that we are - and then WAS's who do come back do it because they would have in any case. I am starting to feel that it's merely preparation for living life alone ...
I love the company here but I am forlorn when I see other people working their WAS's and there's so little for me to join in with. (Sorry, I sound like the kid who never gets picked for the team)!
I just feel that my H is so done .... and I am feeling so hard done by. Everything is getting on my nerves with the house at the moment - even the cats are being a pain! I need some help and it's all starting to over-burden me again.
Oh - and I am really questioning my nc with H.
The more I think about it, the more I realise that he always hated it when I wouldn't speak to him after an argument. He said that it was something that made him realise how outside of the M he really felt. I wonder if nc is doing the same to him?
It also makes me think that he might feel that I am accepting of the separation and I think that it gives him more of an impetus to think that his A is acceptable, as I have 'accepted' that he has gone.
I think that I have to have a new strategy ... anyone have any ideas??
mmm let me think on this one Nell.
I'd say your biggest problem is that your H seems to be a relative of "muffin the mule" once he has decided something he is too stubborn to admit he is wrong!
Need ways that contact is amicable, non confrontational, and he can feel comfortable accepting.
Have you got any house jobs that need two of you to do, or a mans strength, I know you dont want to look incapable, but the house was bought by both of you and if you were chosing a house on your own you would have chosen one that suited the needs of a single lass.
But if you are going to use this type of contact, say "how about helping me fix blah and blah" now this is going to sound really really harsh sorry, You are going to have to button it and not lose it in any way shape or form, acting "as if" is imperative, maybe even a bit "as if we need to sort this house out to finally sell it".
Using the moth analogy, your H will possible risk burning his wings to help you, but if you send out a flash fire he will get burnt anyway and not return! Will check in later x
You are so right Rabbit ... maybe I should contact him and ask when he is available to do the jobs that he spoke of recently. He also knows that my finger and wrists are really playing up at the moment so maybe a word to ask if he could take a turn of mowing the lawns may be OK?
What do others think??
I am more determined to zip my lip when he is next here. Less talk, more mystery, more affirmation of H and that which he does. Right?
Hi Nell
I understand how you are feeling and only you and you alone will know when it is time to give up and move on. As much as everyone would love you to continue working on your M you are the one living your life no one else.
DBing is not easy on us, it is hard work. It is normal to feel that everything is too much Nell and things do get on our nerves and we feel overwhelmed from time to time because we are the ones carrying the burden of everything that needs to be done.
I don't have an answer for you Nell other than to let you know I know how you feel and can sympathise with you wholeheartedly I have been where you are now and I am sure I will be back there at some point further down the track.
(((((Nell)))))
Oh Oz - but you seem to be streets ahead of me. Your H was there with you and you have managed to do so much to make amends with him. My H doesn't even acknowledge that I exist any more.
Thanks for your support - it's so valuable to know that I have good buddies here.
On days like today, it's so tempting to go be Rabbit's lodger and get some of my old life back, rather than be here alone and wondering what I am doing in this huge country without H .... this was all his idea and now he's abandoned everything that he persuaded me was going to be good for us.
Sorry Nell, I took so long to reply that the discussion changed.
If you do decide to initiate contact as you say he hated it when you didn't talk after a disagreement then you are going to have to choose your words carefully and yes you will have to zip your lip and keep it all nice and calm.
Just make sure that whatever you ask him to come around to do is not phrased in any pursuing needy way.
What would you do differently if you weren't DBing? Or is it that you no longer want to be n/c?
Nell I am not streets ahead of you, remember my situation has changed direction and my whole DB techniques have to change dramatically and I for one feel I am pretty much starting from scratch again.
I don't know that we have made amends apart from the fact he has apologised for derogratory comments made and accusations levelled at me.
OK - I'm going to email H.
"Hi. What happened with the insurance after? I have not heard anything from them and wondered if you had managed to upgrade my policy, or not? I can't really afford to do it this month now due to all the extra money that I have put in to the joint account but I need to get it sorted, if I am still in my temporary job, next month.
Also, as you spoke of doing some jobs around the house, when would you be available to perhaps mow the lawns? As you know, I am having some trouble with my finger and wrists at the moment otherwise I would do it myself. Perhaps you would let me know so that we could agree on a day?".
This will let H know that I have done as he asked in terms of putting the money in to cover my expenditure and yet it also tells him that he is not off the hook in terms of his responsibilty to care for the home.
Suggestions or comments - answers on a postcard, please!
I don't think there is anything wrong with the email, you aren't pursuing, you are being business like and to the point. I think it is okay, but maybe others would be able to refine it a bit.
I know that money is tight for you at the moment but I wonder if you can find a pro marriage counsellor. If you go to the doctor and they write a referral you can get it for free for 6 sessions. Ideally, of course, save for DB coach. With a coach or counsellor you could establish a plan and a specific time frame and talking with a coach keeps you really honest and also gives you honest feedback on your attempts.
Totally agree with Cas you have to have someone who is pro marriage and unfortunately so many aren't. That is where the DB coaches are good and yes they don't just focus on H's behaviour but even ours that can be detrimental to things as well.
Here you go how about this, just a bit softer and inviting whilst still business like!
"Hi H
I havent had any feedback from the car insurance company, did you manage to upgrade my policy? I am a bit tight on money this month after putting the additional money in the joint account, which if Im still in my temporary job next month I will take some time to sort out!
You know you mentioned helping with some of the household jobs, it would be useful if you could mow the lawns as my hands and fingers are troublesome at the moment. Perhaps you would let me know what day would be amenable"
Remember "softly softly catchy monkey"
Thanks Cas and Oz ... I am going through Relationships Australia at the moment and they are supposed to be TOTALLY pro-M!!
Wish that I could afford a DB coach but there's just too much that I have to pay out on now that H has withdrawn even more of his financial support. Will just have to believe in fate, meanwhile and to continue living off other people's valuable experiences, sharing their knowledge.
Wishing you all a peaceful evening and a good sleep.
Mmm, I like your approach - thanks Rabbit!
I shall ponder a while and, in good DB'ing mode, I shall then send the email tomorrow. Being Thursday, it won't bring him near for the weekend but at least he will start to plan ... maybe for the weekend following but I shan't hold my breath. Sometimes I would rather not know that he is 'unable to make it' as it tells me that he is having a visitor, which gives me a more miserable time than doing stuff for myself or not having jobs done at all - know what I mean?
Journal:
Well, I didn't send the email as planned but, being alone in the office all day at work, I got to really being tempted to phone H. Thankfully, I settled on sending a quick email instead - and it worked! Took H only 5 minutes to reply:
Nell: Hi! How's your week panning out?
H: Not good. Got a flu'y thing going on - everyone is dropping like flies. How are you?
Nell: Mmm, need your nursey to come around and mop your brow?!!
Bit of chat then about how I had been past his place this week and a bit more on how I was going to ring and invite him to lunch but thought that he would decline - "maybe another time?" Told him about the cats driving me nuts and that I had to go puchase something large for them, on the way home (he's not going to baulk at the bill for that then!) and then mentioned that my wrists and finger were still really sore, but in an upbeat tone and not sounding needy!!
Also said that I would email from home tonight as one or two things to say ... and then I planned not to remember that I was going to do that, leaving things up in the air, equally as he did when he told me last week that he was going to email me and did not.
Lo and behold, when I got home, the second water bill has arrived (this one is for HIM to pay as I paid the last) and also the date for our tribunal hearing, re the house. So, both letters scanned and about to be sent off to H.
Am really marvelling (short term, I'm sure) at how well the contact versus no contact has worked out today! Small baby steps???!
Sounds really good Nell, especially that he didn't take long to reply to your email. As you say baby steps.
Oh yeah! Mind you, H probably only replied quickly so that he could get some sympathy for his man-flu - so says the cynic in me!!
I've hit him with two big emails tonight - complete with attachments. Feeling that it was a lot when he's feeling unwell, I added some chat on to the end of both emails, "acting as if" ... some banter between friends, so as to lift the 'heavy' message from the financial aspect.
The other email was the buildings tribunal hearing date - that's going to be a half day hearing with 'us' against 'them'. I explained that we need to show a united front, whatever happens. We should arrive and leave together.
It will be interesting to see what happens next from H and it means that I can keep my 'financial' chats up my sleeve for another time.
Kind of thinking that 'more of the same' involves contact - even though I feel that it should be limited. NC gets me nowhere and only allows H to feel that I have gone ... which he delights in.
This really IS a counter-intuitive process ... it all feels wrong and is most confusing. Must mean that I am finally getting it right then??!!
Even if your H did want some sympathy at least he was seeking it from you.
If more contact feels right for you then I say go for it. If it doesn't feel right your gut instincts will tell you that and you know better than anyone how your H reacts if you have nc as opposed to contact.
That's good positive affirmation!
Thanks Oz.
You are right too - if and when the gut instinct feels that things have changed, I can do a pull back too - works both ways.
I think that I may be taking back a bit of control - evidently I don't have much in my favour but I can decide on whether or not I want to communicate with him and that's a small step in the right direction. If I then withdraw from that again, H may start to wonder .... oh, paralysis by analysis, to quote the famous golfers term!!
The one person on here I have the most admiration for is Dia she has adapted her DB'ing to suit the situation, and I do think we have to do that too! So if a bit of polite friendly contact works and draws your H in then do it! As Oz said he wanted sympathy and looked at least to get it from the right place! DB'ing is being strategic and one size doesnt fit all so a bit of tweaking is appropriate and "more of the same" does fit the bill if it works do it! If you will excuse the expression, when we first meet our other halves in the mens case they are "thinking with their credentials" so perhaps bringing them back to that moment even if for a short while gets them engage again so be it.
"We have two ears and one mouth so that we can listen twice as much as we speak".
I saw that you had put this on Oz's thread and it reminded me of something else
LISTEN has the exact same letters as SILENT. Interesting eh? Sends us all a strong message.
I haven't read much of Dia's sitch, Rabbit but maybe I need to address that over the quiet weekend that is approaching (it's also BH here so it's going to stretch on and on and on ... ). It's a real b*gger too as my new friend's H has just returned from his job away, for good. Means that weekends won't be spent with her any longer :o( (how selfish of me - but you know what I mean)!
Cas - that's a good one! I have got this new inspirational book from the library. It's called Now Is The Time by Patrick Lindsay - it's full of all those nice little quotes and I think that, choosen carefully, they have a message for us all.
You can all hold your breath now - there's another 169 quotes of ways to 'seize the moment' if I hold on to the book for that long!!
Thoughts for today:
Getting quite desperate to tell H I want to have M talks, even though I shan't as I know it's wrong! I just don't see how we are ever going to have the opportunity to discuss stuff ... I guess that he knows how I feel but he doesn't know that I want a NEW M, not the old one back. I want to be able to tell him what's in my heart but he's not listening - nor does he want to. I fear that the he is just getting more involved with ow and I am losing ..... fast.
It feels a bit better now that I can get him to email me but it's always in response to something - he never initiates any contact - and nor will he.
I'm so resentful that everyone else is off enjoying the long weekend coming up - sitting in the traffic tonight, they are all there with their partners beside them, loaded up for the weekend camping ... fun. Me - nothing, except a date with lawn mower, if my wrists/finger is up to it.
What I did get when I got home was an email from an ex-colleague who has taken his WAW, S2 and S6 to the airport as they are leaving for the UK - never to return. This is a good H, loving father and it makes me sick that he's here in our boat - sinking fast. I have encouraged him to join us here but I don't think that it's for him. He says that he is doing surprisingly well today and yet something tells me that he is going to bomb out. We all know that feeling. Perhaps I am feeling a bit more sorry for him today than I am for myself.
Those times are coming - when I first arrived here, I felt so sorry for myself and no-one's sitch was worse than mine. Now, even though I still feel like it's the pits of hell, I do see that some are much worse off. Doesn't stop you feeling like hell though, does it??
Got an email at work from H this morning in response to my asking him how he was feeling and would he like me to get anything for him. He ignored that bit - just said "Still very average but a long weekend to relax should help. Will pick up emails over weekend".
Nothing much to reply to there ...
Just sent a text to H as the pool was on the fritz ... he replied within five minutes.
Anything wrong with me - may never get a response!
Woah ... another burst of texts from H but still nothing directed toward me - only the precious pool!!
Oh, I'm liking this being back in touch with him ... even if it is on a practical level!
Gave me chance to ask after his 'flu' - another unexpected 180 from me to him as he always said that I ignored him when he had a cold!
How good is tonight?? More text from H telling me about what is going on at work. His company has had some great business news and H says that this is going to mean big changes.
I took the opportunity to 180 again and show BIG interest, asking him if this is what the meeting in Sydney is for at the end of the month and what the changes meant for him.
After so many texts back and forth, suddenly, without warning or anything .... no reply!
Was tempted to try again but I'm leaving it now. I had planned that my next text was going to say "sorry - would love to stay and chat but have to go" ... so that I was the first to end the conversation. Seems he beat me to it. Still, that's more than I've had with him all week and in text terms, most since July!!
This is a BIG INFANT step for me - not a small baby one! <grin>
Rabbit wants the world to stop so that she can get off but I think that I have beaten her to it and am already two feet over the edge.
Tired and feeling unwell today. Really can't get motivated to anything and have already been back to bed twice this morning, although have to keep on getting up to let out the nagging (but gorgeous) cats. I just want to scream at H to come and take his turn at looking after them for a while! (I can't believe that I am saying that two cats are getting to me but that's how short my fuse feels).
I feel like I have been run over by a steam roller ... so tired and as flat as. No particularly good or bad thoughts - just more nothingness. An empty black, gaping hole. I wonder what I am living for. More of this?? The sun is shining brightly but I am cold and sorrowful. I think that I need to go squirrel up in my bed and stay there and see what tomorrow looks like when it arrives.
I will probably call back later though, just to see what's going on in the world of broken hearted people. Hope that you are all having a much more pleasant day than I.
Sorry you are having a bad day Nell.
Earlier this week, I decided to give myself a day to just wallow in the pain. I stayed in my bathrobe til 3 PM, ate only cheetos and watched a sad romantic movie. It was just what I needed. That day, I cried some long overdue tears. I just needed that day to fully acknowledge the hurt.
Be gentle with yourself. You are going through a hard time. I hope you will cry the tears you need to. It's nature's way of healing us.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Dudess - and it just got a whole lot worse.
Deciding that I needed to shake my funk, I got dressed and went out to mow the lawns. In the process, I note that the water supply outside our property has been damaged and there's water flooding out everywhere - the faucet is broken off and nothing that I can do. I phone H.
H hangs up the phone. I phone again. Line goes dead. I phone once more - goes to voice mail and I tell him to ring me urgently. I send a text - all the wrong things I know but I'm in panic mode here. H phones.
I explain the problem, he tells me he is interstate - after all the woe is me and how he was going to relax over the weekend THE LIAR is with ow and sounded like he was out and about ....
FURIOUS and shaking, I tell him that he had better get home and sort out his responsibilities before living his adulterous lifestyle. He tells me (in a manner of words) "then you should be looking after [censored] stuff". I hung up.
Now waiting on the emergency water guy to call whilst sat here FUMING and with no-one to call on for any kind of sympathy or support.
Carried on with the lawns - lawn mower blew up.
I just feel like telling H to get down here next weekend so that we can get this all over and done with. I hate that he's rubbing my nose in it all the time and I am so over looking after OUR home and HIS mess.
How I wish that I could cry. Even this fury won't allow me to shed the tears and I am like a dam inside - the walls are going to give way soon, I just know it. H has absolutely no concept of how I'm feeling and what he has done. He's never been rejected in his life and wouldn't know how it felt ..... meanwhile, I'm hurting like hell and have no-one to turn to.
I just feel like ending this life. I've had enough.
Need to go dark again - or do I need to tell H to get his a$$ down here next weekend so that we can do some major SERIOUS talking, regarding the house and all the responsibilities that go with it? I don't see why I am sailing this ship alone whilst he is off GAL'ing and I am left holding everything else together - including my broken heart.
It seems to me that when he is here alone, he cake eats by wanting to tell me stuff, spend an evening here on false pretences and upset me before he leaves. Then, whenever he has opportunity to go interstate, he's off in a flash, ignores me for as long as possible and today, was really - and I mean really - rude to me on the phone, using profanities which he probably thinks make him look big and masterful in front of ow. Pathetic, childlike behaviour.
Sorry to rant but I need to .... I managed to shed 3 tears today before the well dried. What's the matter with me - am I emotionally barren or am I just over-protecting myself? Why can't I cry when I so want to ... it's been months now and nothing .... ?????
It's a gorgeous sunny lunch time here but I'm taking a bottle of wine, my precious babies and I am going to bed. I've had enough of today and knowing that H won't be back until Tuesday is eating in to me. He was making off last night like he was so ill and spending some time on his own to recover .... I wish we could use some really choice language here as I could really spit some out right now.
I think that his texts that I was getting so excited about, were a way to kill some time at the airport - no wonder then he didn't reply to my last one.
Oh, I don't know what to do now but my instinct is to go back to nc for a week or three.
H just text to see if I had the water problem sorted. I have ignored him.
Neighbour on way to fix lawn mower.
Me? Bottle of white down and eyes like the proverbial holes in the snow.
It's been really tough for you Nell.
I think the NC is the way to go and don't ask him to help with the household stuff. He's obviously not wanting this type of responsibility at the moment. Sounds like he's a 'fair weather' H.
I agree Cas.
Neighbour started the lawnmower with no problem - seems that I must have just 'flooded' it. He says to ring him whenever I need anything, which is really great but at the moment it feels like he could be here full time with everything else that's going wrong.
He laughed at my water problem .... this is a guy from back home who I worked with and he now lives four doors away! We are good 'friends' but it's not quite the same. Am getting to know his W though so that's a positive.
Off to finish that bottle of white now and drown some more sorrows.
Another time of nc commences ....
Hi Nell,
I go away for a day and so much happens. I am sorry that your H is still being a moron and that you find yourself doing what I did the other night. Remember your advice to me to not drink too much because it is a depressant.
Rise to the challenge Nell, NC and I agree with Cas no more asking to help with the house stuff it obviously aggravates him.
Tomorrow is another day.
Hang in there Nell
(((((((((Nell))))))))
Thanks Oz - yeah, take my own medicine, eh?!! I haven't had a drink for so long and even though I have to swallow my own advice now, I NEEDED something to take the edge off my fury. I didn't quite finish the bottle, but almost!
Was awake at 3am and another early rise for me this morning. I can't get enough sleep, try as I might and it's wearing me down. I won't give in to pills and I don't think that I am quite there yet anyhow.
Today I shall try to cut the lawns again! It's so much effort getting all the equipment out, dragging the bin around with me for the clippings and then to have to start over again today for the aborted attempt that yesterday was.
Still feeling evil about things today. It's better for me when I know that H is spending weekends on his own, too. He is showing no remorse whatsoever about his actions and I just know in my heart and head that this is over ... and I should start to let go. It's so hard though when all the reminders are here and I am just waiting on a full time job to see if I can afford to buy H out of the house. I know that there's still time but I have REALLY had enough of living like this.
I'm so alone and even though I now have a few friends around, it's not the same when they can't be contacted - my family and friends in the UK are so quiet these days and I miss having physical presence of another human. Cuddling up to Cat6 last night, I wondered at how pathetic my life has become to how it was six months ago. This time last year H and I were getting all excited for our trip back home and look at us now ....
I must be a bit stronger though as I still haven't responded to H's text of yesterday. I don't intend to either.
When he asked "did you manage to sort out the water" it was all I could do not to reply "why are you asking - it's not like you care"...
... and there, in that one line, you see my anger, hurt and pain coming out, as it always does. It's why he gets nasty and backs right off. It allows him to behave the way he does and gives me the Platinum entry ticket for the Pity Party.
I have tried so hard to change my responses, do 180's, affirm and validate - nothing works on him. Nothing works.
I've found that each step of detaching makes us a tiny bit stronger along the way. You are also using this time to reflect on your own behaviours as well. This is a big positive. Hope your lawn mowing is successful today. It's good to know that you can resolve your water and lawn issues without H.
I have some stronger times Cas and then I lose it and am back in the hollow for a few days. This is one of those times.
I manageed to finish the lawns today but it was a huge effort, my wrist and finger problems appear to be getting worse and everything is so heavy and awkward for me. Still, it's done and I like the resulting neatness - makes my world feel orderly, even if it's not.
The neighbour opposite was out fixing some stuff and we stopped for a quick chat (don't know them well and don't really want to get involved). I was dreading that she was going to ask where H was and I was not even listening to much of her convo as I was trying to pull together a response. Instead, she was just intent on telling me how the next door neighbour had been burgled last weekend. Another worry for me to now add to my list.
Sat in the garden with the sun shining down on me and took the opportunity to give the furries a good brushing, which they both enjoyed. Sat there, I just can't believe that H is interstate and living it up whilst I am here doing all the work and taking care of what used to be our joint responsibilities. Makes me feel some very, very bad and evil thoughts. I also feel like spilling the beans and telling his parents about his behaviour - I won't of course but the temptation to show people what a louse H is being is huge. He is acting cowardly too, in my view. He's not facing anyone ... and he's getting away with them all thinking that he is the victim in all of this, without them knowing the truth. I won't tell them what's going on here yet I am the one who is being seen as the villain. Not fair.
Now, cooking some lunch, I wonder "when is this over? How do you know when enough is enough?" ....
I'm getting such a clear message from H and yet I still feel that it is such a loss, for us both. Up until 2 months ago, he told me that he would reconsider the whole deal if there was something monumental - but what is he waiting for and meanwhile, he's not exactly doing anything to help us, is he?
Although I hate him right now for his actions and the impact that they are having upon me, I still can't sever the love ties that I have to him. What is in my head and heart continue to conflict - badly.
Hey Nell -
Saw your other post and thought I'd check in - hang in there.
Sounds like you're doing a lot to keep busy, that's good. I'm having some hard days too. But I know we're all going to get through this. Hang in there.
Nell, you're not alone...we all have the stronger times and then the low times. In those times I can recognise that I am just being plain pathetic. However, there are times when I need to be pathetic and to wallow in self pity before I give myself a giant smack and get back into life. I'm sure it's like that for us all. It's a bit like eating everything in sight before deciding enough is enough and embarking on the diet.
Passing by and thought I add a big DITTO to what Cas and Bill said. They don't call it a roller coaster cause its smooth :-)
Thanks Bill - just visited over on your thread.
I was busy this morning and I do try to keep stuff ticking over around the house - it's all I have really - keeps me busy and gives me a sense of pride when it's all looking neat and tickety boo!
I just don't know how much longer I can put up with life like this. I feel that I am dealing with my H issues a good bit better now but I would deal with them heaps more if I had someone to fill the void ... just can't ever see that happening as a) I am still very much in love with H and b) I don't go anywhere to meet people.
I'm really considering whether or not I should pack up and move away but I don't want to sell the house right now. With the market being as it is currently, we stand to just scrape into a small profit, which would not realise all the equity that we put in to the build.
I think that H is playing a very astute game at the moment. He has stopped pushing me on the sale of the house but I guess that, now I am paying more than half of everything, he is happy enough to let it ride as the market picks up. He is winning, whichever way you look at this. He stands to come out of our M with a new life, ow, half of everything that we have and to be rid of me - the noose that he feels is tied around his neck.
I meanwhile, stand to lose my H, my home, my hopes, my livelihood ... my dreams, support, ambition .... my life. It was all wrapped up with him and whilst I hear that I should be drawing my own line in the sand and moving on, I just don't want to.
I want my H back and for me, that precludes me from GALing and doing all the other stuff which is supposed to be so good for you at this time. I'm sure it is but I'm just not ready. I have tried but I'm only fooling myself. I don't feel that way and I can't act that way.
I'm so tired of sailing along, alone.
Hi Nell
Home now but still feeling a bit over whelmed with brain ache, but just wanted to say hi and send cuddles and I will get stuck in and read later tomorrow! Spouses, boy sometimes are they sent to try us! x
((((((((((((Nell)))))))))
You are entitled to your down times Nell, they are a big part of the rollercoaster ride you are on at the moment. But you have to remember and this is what I tried to do each time I was down, that they are for the most part miserable in their own heads even if they don't show it on the outside, they aren't necessarily having fun, in fact it is one thing I have learn't in my conversations this weekend with my H, the exterior is nothing of what is going on inside.
Also you can't let your H's decisions at the moment affect your mood, hard I know, but you have to rise above that and try to find the joy in simple things of life around you and try not to dwell on things too much it isn't healthy for your mind or body.
I wish I could give you a big hug in person Nell because I know how good it makes me feel.
(((((Nell)))))
I have been awol for some time. For that I am sorry. I want to be here for others, it is very hard for me right now. It seems I need to detach from the topic as well as the marriage.
I have just spent my Sunday reading the last 8 or so pages of your last thread and all 44 of this one. You, my dear, are eyeball deep in the life we call "My H has left me and is having a full-blown MLC". In my reading of you over the past month I have to say it is all classic MLC stuff. Everything he is doing or not doing and everything you are doing or not doing and feeling or not feeling emotionally. Do not question any longer if this is a MLC - it is.
I am working on coming to grips with my decision. I want you to know that it doesn't really matter where in time we are in our sitch it is still a rollercoaster of emotions and choices. My days are up and then down. I am struggling to regain the self-esteem, strength, courage and independence that I had before this all started.
I again want to say I am sorry I went awol on ya.......Grab a bottle of wine or a hot pot of tea, this will be a long post.
The things I have learned are simple, take patience and time to absorb and are necessary for you and the DB process. They won't come easy and are hard to instill, nevertheless you must do them. (In some of my earlier posts to you I told you these)
NO CONTACT is absolutely necessary. Do not question your choice.
DO NOT contact H for any reason about the household chores/maintenance or car or bills or the kitties for that matter. Muster on your own....you can survive without his help. He does not want to be there he must learn a consequence. He has to own his choice.
I understand your bill arrangement and from what I can see he has kept his end of the bargain. No need to discuss the finances. With your new job, all will be fine through December. Keep looking for employment in case this job ends - the lady just might want to come back.
If you cannot do a specific chore or task find someone other than H to assist you. You need to prove you are independent without him. He doesn't need to know how you manage. Frankly in his MLC he doesn't care. People will be willing to help you and don't be afraid to tell them you are alone. They will keep an extra watchful eye on you and your place. You need this, don't let pride get in your way.
Take the car to a shop for the maintenance you can't do. You might even get a guy friend to help with some of that too.
If H misses the kitties so be it. His loss. His consequence and another choice he has to own.
I didn't like the advice your C gave you to write H a letter. I would advise you to write...if you feel the need, however DO NOT give it to H. H will not be appreciative, as he will take it as pursueing for sure. I will also go so far as to say.....it will anger him.
For me and others here, DB is not only about YOU and learning to regain your being and life back it is about (hopefully) reconciling with a loved one. A loved one who is so very precious to us. Reconciling a marriage which as a union is also so very precious to us. I, like you, take my marriage very seriously. I married my H and vowed til death do us part, in sickness and in health. I can't just turn my back on H, in his MLC. It is like a sickness. I also feel that our H's do not push D because in some way they too are taking their marriage very seriously. I understand that they can stop their behavior, sometimes I think they have to go through this MLC hell to do the growing up they didn't do as teens and young men. It is nothing that we are at fault for. It was going to happen regardless.
Gucci and Stuck would obviously disagree with my DB techniques. I do not believe they have been in vain. I did not set boundaries for my H. I needed to change and make sure H saw the changes and he has. H enjoys my company. I make sure I always greet and treat him well. I wanted to be the lighthouse in his storm and I have succeeded. They would call it cake-eating. Perhaps it is. My H and I would not be friends at all if I had chosen a different technique. My H is still in his MLC and he just might be one of those who will never come out. Only time will tell.
My goal was to change me. I did and I am happy with me.
My goal was to create a friendship with my H. I did and I am very happy we are friends.
My goal was to reconcile my marriage. I have chosen to accept what is...is and move on. It's not to say we can't someday re-unite. It will be something new. We have to learn what was is gone. Anything we can create from this will be new.
I firmly believe that your H needs to see you in a new comfortable light. He needs to see your changes. Backslides are inevitable. Don't beat yourself up over those. Your H is not completey done yet.
Honey, you do need to get your emotions in check. You must show H over time that he can trust you. He will not entertain the thought to return if he believes nothing has changed. After your last encounter, he was driven right back in the tunnel.
FORGET THE OW EXISTS. Learn to live with it. NEVER, EVER mention her to him. Live "as if" you could give a rats a$$ about her existence. Do not let on that she takes up any space in your world. It is better to ignore her existence on the planet even. Jealousy is ugly.
Good things that are taking place are:
H is putting money on the joint account.
H is not mentioning the house appraisal.
H showed a concern for the household chores even if he never gets to them.
H let his guard down and told you he was flu-ish. A sure sign he wanted comfort from you.
H was telling you of his job, etc.... They don't tell you anything when they are serious about ending the marriage.
H asks how you have been and the kitties, too. Ditto above.
I will take your word for it that the looks and body language were very "comfortable". Another sign that he was/is "thinking".
I frankly would answer all his calls and texts. I would not call him or text him for anything. I can think of no other way to rebuild a friendship. This way you are letting him come to you (Gucci and Stuck will approve) and you have backed off completely. Backing off creates wonder in them. They don't/won't let us get too far away. I think they do still love us they are merely looking for something different and trying to grow up. Contact when initiated by them can't hurt the sitch. I love my H too and for me to turn my back on him when he needs me would be cold and surely end any positive growth towards friendship. We cannot be married if we cannot be friends.
(((((Nell)))) I have been where you are and your sitch is still young. Please give it more time. Time will not have been wasted if you can say you did everything to patch things up with H. You just never know it might be just a matter of time and things will continue to improve. Your H is hurting for sure. Time does heal. You have been at this since May/June....4 short months. Give it the summer and then see what happens.
Try to be the greener grass and DB your little a$$ off. If you have given it a full year and it still looks the same take the next step towards separating for good. I am not an advocate of the amount of time I have spent. It has served me well. My result will still be a D. I am OK. I needed to do this. I own my choice. I spent the past four years coming to grips with a loss of a relationship of 30+ years. Loss of my lover, marriage, family and career. I could not have done it any other way. I needed the time to absorb and accept. I see you in me. You need to take some more time.
(((((Hugs, Nell)))))
Will try to check in more often, I am getting stronger and so will you.
Please take care. Lots of people are here for you.
Sanderika
Hi Rabbit
Good that you are home safe and sound - even though with brain ache! Did you enjoy and, yesterday I was wondering, did you have to take madam with you or did you get a 'rental'?!!
Have been feeling like crap but I have just read Sanderika's post to me and now I have a lot of thinking to do ....
Catcha later - is your b*m sore?!!
Hi Oz
I have tried this weekend to tell myself that this is a down time but I have woken this morning to a huge block on me, pressing down harder than ever. The more that I have examined this, the more I know that I can't put up with it for much longer, but I just don't know what to do to make myself feel any better.
I don't want it to be over but part of me thinks that at least the ties would then be severed for good and I wouldn't have to keep feeling like this, surrounded constantly by all of the memories. I could start to make a new life. I really have started to hate H for what he is doing and yet I cling to the love of my marriage and the life that is past.
The weekends are my worse times and long weekends are my nemesis.
I would just love a hug ((((Oz)))) - the physical touch of another can not be replaced by anything, can it? I long for those nights back when I would drift off in to sleep with H tickling my back - every night that was my prize for being his W and how I loved it.
Hi Nell, This hug is the best we can manage for now. (((((Nell))))). Sorry you are feeling so low. Please know that you are not alone. We've all been there and faced the very same demons you are facing. There is no quick fix. It takes as long as it takes. You can't do anything about it except to accept it as part of your journey and live with the pain and anguish. Nobody can tell you when it's time to give up except you. Grapple with the issues and make a date on your calendar when you will make a decision to keep at it or give up. Perhaps it's 30 days time and then at the end of Oct reassess. You can always add 30 days more if you need it. I think at this stage you need to focus on short term only.
Hi Sanderika
So good to have you back - I must go check your latest thread now that I know that you are around again. How are you doing? It's great to see you here and THANK YOU for your wonderful post - you have totally grasped my situation and I am so grateful for you watching over me.
Getting up this morning, I really needed something to push me down one path or another and I think that you being back has done that - you have renewed my faith - it was almost gone, as you will have detected. I think that, reading your response, I can do something toward regaining my position as a DB'er - even though it will be from a distance. I have to take up the n/c stance now - I know it in my heart and head this time and I am resolved to making him come to me in the future.
I am also encouraged that you say it's still early days for me at 4 months. I feel like it's been forever and, with H carrying on his A and seemingly getting much more serious about his separation from me, I am hitting the skids.
I am pleased that you have diagnosed this as MLC too - I was wondering if he was 'mad or bad' and concluded that this is his choice and so came down on the side of bad. Your explanation of him not having done stuff as a young man, that he now wants to act out, is spot on. I was his first 'real' relationship and I think that he feels that he has to make up for some lost time. I guess that's what MLC is all about, right?
I have tried to work on my issues by seeing the C (and by the way, I agree about the letter - I'm not going to do it). I'm not sure that it's getting me anywhere - I shall review it after the next session and see how it goes - for me initially, it was two hours out of the house and a chance to see if it would work. I really like my C but it feels more like I'm going for a challenging chat with a friend now, than for sorting out my issues. I have to give her an opportunity this week though as she has constantly changed our plotted course as I bring other worries to her at each session.
You are right about the independence thing. I certainly was before I met him and he saw all of that side of me. Owning my own home and sailing my own ship. We have done so many home projects together over the years and had so many challenges ahead of us and I am wondering if it now feels like he is a so-called "empty-nester" - we don't have the kids that have flown but our projects have since we now have a neat and orderly life with nothing to strive for ... it's all done.
I'm glad that you have been able to become friends with your H and I am sure that we can too, however - and this is a big however - I don't feel like I want to be friends with H when he is still having A. How can I do that to myself? Why would I want to be friends with someone who is chopping up my heart? How do you overcome those feelings to become friends? I just want to rip his head off sometimes and shout into his soul "WTF do you think you are doing to me after all that we have been to one another?" I guess that I am just hurting too much still.
As in the spirit of good DB'ing, nothing has seemed to work so far, so I shall try your approach and see if that brings any success. NC resumes from Saturday onward - when he contacts me, which he will soon due to the tribunal notification which I sent to him, I will answer and REALLY try to keep my cool. I did find it much easier to deal with ow when I pretended that it did not exist but when it is flaunted in my face, as was Saturday, I see the red mist descend like a thick fog and it sets my anger off again. I have done heaps to work on my anger management but to no avail.
I think that there's a lot to be said for people being in the right place and time before they can accept what is happening. You say that you are not an advocate of how long you spent but I really don't think that you can lead a horse to water unless he is ready to drink. I know that, for me, I have to go through these gates before I can reach the other side of the field - until I have processed a lot of this stuff, I am not ready to take action. It's why everyone who doesn't understand this stuff tells you, "get over yourself - it's 4 months now - you should be with someone else". Yeah, right.
I have also considered how easy it must be for H to be doing this. He WANTS this to be happening, he is happy with his own company, he enjoys flying interstate, he has a job in which he is comfortable and earns good money. He has a sister who lives over East and parents who support him with whatever he wants to do. No wonder he is in the lap of luxury - and then there's a loving wife who he knows would have him back in a heart beat.
For me - I have no established friends here, no secure job, no family - even back in the UK, only a sister who's contact is minimal to say the least. I have nothing going on in my life - no safety or security blanket and I wonder why that is. Probably because I have made H my entire life - believing in him and needing no-one else. That was a big mistake.
However, I don't feel that I deserve to be left with nothing the way that I have been. Perhaps this is all part of my evolving ... I wonder at why some of have these struggles in life - the misery and heartache. Others have it all and never a day of worry or hardship. What's the deal there? I thought that I was done with misery, when I married my H. I believed in him and our new life together - even starting again in a new country, striving for something even better than we had ... and then within two minutes of the bomb, my whole world was blown apart. Now I have to put those pieces back together and I don't even know where to start.
I only ever needed H - he was my best friend and now he's gone too. No wonder I feel so alone ... but what I have just worked out as I am emptying my thoughts on to this post, is that H is pushing the right button - and time after time I am letting him. The answer is there ... it's my epiphany and now I must disable the button.
As he does when he comes to visit (all except once) he constantly makes an argument before he leaves. In our phone call on Saturday, he said the exact thing that he knew would make me flip - and it did. Why haven't I worked that out before now? Perhaps I had just not been through that gate. In future, when he says something that he thinks will spark an argument, Nell will purely say something disarming. Am I a slow learner, or just a quick reactor?! Well, look out my friend, next week is a whole new way to go.
Sorry folks, I have really hosted my pity party here today but it does feel that a weight has been lifted! Thanks Sanderika - you may just have sparked a vital change in me.
(((hugs)))
Thanks Cas - I think that you are right and, as you may have seen from Sanderika post and my reply, I have made a decision to hang in there.
It's not easy and this weekend has surely not helped. It has been long, lonely and filled with problems. Knowing that H was interstate just exacerbated my whole negativity.
I shall do as you say. Give it October and reassess.
Thanks Cas - I have some good pals here now - just wish that we were all closer and could have our pity party on the café strip!
What are your plans for the day?? You aren't going to be able to top yesterday but hopefully you can find something that brings you a similar joy?
Yes Nell I did read your reply to Sanderika and one thing I wanted to comment on was that well meaning people say, "Get on with it. Forget him. Get somebody else." Those people just don't want to see you hurt. That's our society. We don't want to see hurt and pain, only joy so we encourage others to 'get over it'. It's only when you've walked that path that you realise that it's just not that simple. This is a grieving process.
Today is another beautiful day. I have a doctor's appointment and then D wants to get some things at the shops. An afternoon walk should finish it all nicely.
well meaning people say, "Get on with it. Forget him. Get somebody else." Those people just don't want to see you hurt. That's our society. We don't want to see hurt and pain, only joy so we encourage others to 'get over it'. It's only when you've walked that path that you realise that it's just not that simple.
Too right Cas. Unless someone has been here, they can have no concept of how it feels, or the importance that people attach to salvaging their M.
It's a well known fact that we live in a disposable society and for many WASs, I believe that they look on M as the empty bottle of water which they are carrying around and can't wait to find a trash can to throw it in to.
The fact that my friends back home do not understand, has led to me being all the more detached from society - the less I interact, the less I have to defend myself at a time when I don't feel that I can.
I have stopped trying to defend my emotions and actions to my friends by email. I know that they are purely behaving as you state above, but I can't take their constant disapproval and how they think it's fine for them to say nasty things about my H. They seem to have lost the thread that, even though he is being vile to me right now, I am not being vile back to him and I don't want them to say nasty things about him.
What they don't see is that, although H is hurting me, they are hurting me too by saying those things. I have therefore chosen my silence to them and answer all emails very generically and try not to mention H at all. In turn, they think that I am being off-ish and am trying to cut them out. The communications from home have become less and less as they don't understand, try though I have to explain it to them.
I remember supporting a friend many years ago in her R breakup. She was in a same sex R which was a huge secret - literally no-one except four of us friends knew. I spent eight years supporting her until she dropped the funk. Now that I am having my troubles, I have very little support from her. I have tried to put that down to the fact that it is probably a reminder of what she went through but for goodness sakes - where are all of my friends now that I need them?? Makes me feel quite bitter, I can tell you. Constantly highlights how alone I am in the world - physically and emotionally. If it weren't for the friends here on this board, I would have given up by now.
Nell,
I think I told you this before....here goes again,
My sitch started in August 2005. The 16th to be exact. It was not until January 3rd 2006, that our relationship took a different path. 4+ months!!!
In those 4 months my H went from hating my guts and adamant about a D, having gone to the county to get the papers and had them almost complete and filed, to reconsidering his choice. He stopped the D from going further at that time because he saw the changes I was making and recognized my hard work and could see that I was getting myself back to the person he fell in love with and my home back to the original place he enjoyed being in.
He didn't pursue a D for another 3 years after that. It was only then he did it to shut up the OW. The OW knows nothing of our continued relationship. This is the hard part. I have a hard time with this. She got him to file and he doesn't want to D me. He still can't come home and that is the MLC. His journey isn't over yet. Gucci and Stuck might think I am wacked, I do believe this. My H doesn't want to D me. He has postponed the proceedings three times now and with each passing day our relationship changes still.
I guess I could also say I don't care about the cake-eating. I am a rare bird. It has brought me and H closer. H is now more candid with me and he shares things with me he would have never in that beginning time. The only discussion off topic is the OW. I have told him she isn't human and has no place in my world now or ever. She has no name to me. He knows how I feel. He respects my reasons. I do overlook her, I have had to learn to.
Nell, all of this DB is learned behavior. You learn what works and what doesn't. This can only happen over time. This is unfair and very painful. This is when you muster all the strength and courage and patience you can. And just when you think you have all of it, you will need more. I am not kidding. This is not for the faint of heart. This can only be done when you truly believe standing will bring your H home. By believing so strongly your behaviors will refect your ideas and desires and H will notice the changes. You will live your changes until you become someone else. Not someone new, someone you were. The person H left is not the person you are meant to be. It is a journey for you and a humbling one at that. You will be a much better person after living this situation. Trust me.
H is not happy. H appears happy. Your H is a scared man right now. H does not want to be living this either. He does not fully understand why, he would deny this is a MLC. It's part of the problem. They are trying to figure out what they want. They are afraid to grow old. They are afraid of what they missed out on. They are afraid of responsibility. They are afraid of us. They are afraid of their future without us and the security of marriage. All sounds wierd, it's true. The problems are they can't stop the process. They need to experience the full MLC before they can come out of the fog. It will cause destruction, unfortunately they will not see that part until it is too late. They have to hit bottom before they can come back to the top. This will only happen by experiencing losses and consequences. NC can be viewed as a loss and consequence at the same time.
Your H is living in a selfish world. It is all about him right now. To break into that place of his, you need to be open to him. You need to be willing to be validating and concerned and forgive him his faults everyday. I always remember there is a fine line between love and hate. I love H and hate what he is doing. It won't make sense to everyone. It does to me. I wake everyday and forgive H for what he will do that day. Literally. By accepting his contact you are validating his existence and making him feel accepted in your world. A lot of MLC has to do with his ego and him feeling good.
Sometimes in DB things don't appear to be working and in reality they are. Our sitches are forefront in our H's minds just like in ours. They are thinking out all the possibilities and choices constantly. They are open to changes and are looking for them.
It is my opinion that H starts an argument before he leaves because it makes it easier for him to leave. You apparently feed right into it by offering a comeback to the argument and validating H's reason that he has to leave, therefore next time don't buy into it. Stand quiet and cute and sweet. Leave H with guilt for leaving not proof that he's right.
I have friends and family. I have cut off virtually all contact with family because they do not understand my choice and berate me for it. I have friends and they are supportive and at the same time do not understand this at all. I keep pretty quiet and only come here to talk about it. It is better all around for doing that. I do keep quite a bit bottled up and that is hard. I have a moment everyday that I cry. My decision to end the marriage in December is fine. I have travelled a long way. I was hoping to see some significant changes these past few months and have not. I have come to realize that nothing will change without something more/new. I cannot be H's wife any longer while he entertains OW. The tidbits aren't enough for me anymore. It has nothing to do with my feelings for H. I would take him back if he walked through the door right now. He won't. The choice is about simply accepting what is...is and accepting that there isn't enough room for me and son in H's world anymore. I did give it the good fight and a very honest, fair one at that. No one can argue that fact. I did it with grace and a calm patience that has taught me volumns about life.
Nell, you could very well find yourself in a D like me. I want you to totally understand that there are to be no expectations and your hard work may not bring your H completely home. I can say that it will create a better person in you and that your H will notice and your relationship will be different than it is now, it will be better and better is good. If it's better and good, you never know what can happen. Right now though it needs a great deal of improvement. Get working on improving. Keep the backslides at bay. You do that by being conscious of your every movement and word around H. You can do this. I learned how, so can you.
(((((Hugs)))))
Got to go watch the season premier of Desperate Housewives, it's the only show I follow. Then off to bed. I will try and post more to you. I am struggling like I said. This is rougher than I expected it would be.
Sanderika
Bless you, Sanderika.
You are really giving me some food for thought today and I appeciate you being here and supporting me. You know, in all of this, the advice that has brought the most response from H has come from you and so I intend to keep listening. You told me to wave him off as he left our penultimate meeting, rather than arguing with him, as would be normal. This is the best memory that I have of him in four whole months! I can still see his face in the shadows as he drove away, smiling and waving. Everything since then has blurred out due to more and more pain.
I keep thinking over what he has said in the past. I don't know if it's truth or the MLC speaking. He says that we should never have gotten married - that he realised very early on that he was still in love with his old gf (they were NEVER an item, I have since learned from his friend)! He says that over the years he has enjoyed our life together and he has totally loved me but the past few years have been wrong and he was telling me so but I was just not listening. (You know, all the usual rewriting of history, leaving all the good parts out and concentrating on the negative stuff).
I never heard this. Each time I would bring up the fact that we had difficulties, he would become upset and say that he knew that we were living like brother and sister, didn't know why he did not feel the need for a physical relationship with me other than on the most infrequent of occasions, and how we have got this far is a mystery to him. He says that he has not felt loved and in turn, has been unable to give his love. I have been feeling rejected by him for years and all the while I learn that he was feeling the same. Reading 5 LL has really hammered that home to me. H was speaking Russian and I was speaking French.
Now, he says that he has had enough. He wants to love, be loved, have a life and be happy - all the things that he thinks he can't have with me. He says that we have gone down ever widening parallel paths and there is no turning back - not ever. He seems to be having his needs fulfilled by ow and his only sadness is that the tramp lives interstate and he can't be there or vice versa due to 'barriers' whatever that means ... that's the only sadness I ever see coming from him - NOTHING to do with us or our situation. He has left me in his head and in his heart.
I was reading through some old texts that he sent last night and I can see that his misery is quickly resolved as soon as something with ow happens. (Wish I could get me a pair of those rosey coloured spectacles). It is working for him to be living this new life and he doesn't give a jot about me. He doesn't see this as an A but as a whole new life for himself ... he's not playing and I believe that this is for real. It's why I feel so desperate and that I am not going to win him back, whatever I do.
How do I break in to that?? I can be as friendly as I like but that just makes him feel better and less guilty as he sees that I am coping. If I cope, he has nothing to worry about. In the meanwhile, I am the thorn in his side as I am living in our home and remain here as a constant reminder to him. He hasn't pushed on D or selling the house in a while. All he is doing now is trying to tighten the financial screw on me so that I am the one to crack and admit that the house has to be sold. Again, he would walk away with no blame attached to him for the mess that he will be leaving me in.
H has to always have a clean face - no egg is ever allowed to come near. It's not allowable for him to be seen as the villain - it would kill him. So much so, when he dropped the bomb and I retreated to the UK, some of his final words to me were "it's OK by me if you want to save face and tell everyone that you are binning me". My reply - "oh no, I won't be telling them that. You have to own this shame - this is your doing". He visibly winced.
Just got an email from a friend, asking me how I feel today - how I feel today is like a widow. That sums it up really well - though contact from the dead is probably more usual than contact from my WAH.
On the flip side of that, I tell myself that H is coming home. Watching romantic movies exacerbates the thoughts and I can't see why he doesn't see what the rest of the world sees - it's just a few words, get in the car and drive back ...... voila! H is home - and then I wake up.
It feels like an eternity since our heated exchange on Saturday. I am determined to see the nc thing through again although I know that he will email in the next day or two, as my earlier thread. I am just wondering at my response - or do I even bother to respond? Thing is, our tribunal has a lot riding on it, so you will see that this is not just caving in for contact with H - this is serious stuff.
Morning Nell,
Some wise words from Sanderieka, and good to have a slightly tweaked DB version to digest too! Like I said before the weekend it really has to be slightly adapted to suit some.
My observation from reading all the weekends reports is that you see GAL and DB'ing when is working well for you that H sees it as a green light you are ok and he can move on! Put a spin on it! IMHO I reckon that it might be validating him feeling youre ok and he can move on, but what is 100% is that every time you go PLOT LOST for want of a better word you are validating him leaving twice fold.
If you get to a washing machine/lawn mower disaster, come and rant on here first, a) it will make you feel better b) someone might have an idea what to do c) you will have been sidelined from losing it with H. You are a panicker just like me, and what works for Mr Rabbit is watching when I would normally lose/blow it and I dont, and believe me I know how hard it is not to lose it, I could so easily have just flipped when I got back yesterday, it took everything and twice over to ignore him packing and go tidying myself up and come down looking happy, if I had lost it despite that H obviously looked shattered, worried, he would have cut his nose of to spite his face and driven the three hours home.. I made it ok for him to stay by being ok myself.. Im not blowing my own trumpet at all, just totally empathising the amount of energy it takes to do stuff that your whole body tells you, you cant! Will be around today so feel free to rant away at me..
My observation from reading all the weekends reports is that you see GAL and DB'ing when is working well for you that H sees it as a green light you are ok and he can move on! Put a spin on it! IMHO I reckon that it might be validating him feeling youre ok and he can move on, but what is 100% is that every time you go PLOT LOST for want of a better word you are validating him leaving twice fold.
OK - so I might be under the influence of a glass of white but I have read this three times and am not getting it! Sorry Rabbit ... can you explain again??!!!
You drunken bum Nell lol! Ok will try and explain better as its probably me too!
If you GAL H's feels hes OK to leave you
If you go BUNNY BOILER, he feels he is RIGHT to leave you and enforces it further
The first is amicable and leaves you in a good position holding your own, the second is chasing him further away and leaving you in a worse position.
I hope that makes more sense, to me the first way only does one lot of damage in your eyes and the second two lots of damage..
If it dont make sense dont over analyse its probably me lol! and perhaps tomorrow I can say it in english!
Honestly I think you really need to GAL if H had died on that day, you would have grieved but had to have moved on, so what would you have done, things you wanted to do, get a list and work through them, have your own MLC and be selfish for yourself and the things you want to do, look at it as if/when H comes home you will want to devote time to him, so now you need to get all those things you want to do done first..
Gotcha! Thanks for perservering with me!
Truth be known, GAL has never been big on my agenda and now that I feel a bit forced in to it, it's even less appealing. Due to the isolation of where I live, there's precious here anyhow. Granted that I could find something but I feel that you have to have some drive to do so and I feel to grief stricken right now to get out of my own way. (I know, big pity party).
Added to the insecurities re money and lack of people to do anything with, I am a bit of a sad sack. H and I just used to love going out on picnics and talking .. watching nature, spending time with one another ... there was never any time, or need for anything else.
I have counted the hours this weekend and when I stop and see that H has flown interstate (and will hopefully be on his way back tonight), you have been on your riding course, Cas has been walking on the beach and who knows what Oz has been up to, I feel ashamed that all I have done is sat here (after mowing the lawns) and hopped back and forth between the site and my email accounts - refreshing and refreshing to see who's around. How pathetic and shabby a life is that? Gets me to thinking that I should come home - at least I would have a little more than this but then it's a big move to make as I know that I would not be any happier.
Yes, I would have friends and family but that's it. I would have to uproot the babies (and all the worry of them emigrating again) ship all my stuff, wait until the house were sold - and then end up in a shabby council flat - which I have always vowed that I would die first, before doing.
H is getting off lightly compared to all of this, isn't he? It's his mess. Why am I struggling to clean it all up and why do I have to find a new life for myself when all I want is him?
With you all the way on the last bit hun! and I dont think its time to admit defeat and head home just yet either, as you say you may be in more familiar surroundings, but you are going to still feel the same and with winter coming on, well to retreat to soggy old blighty would be suicidal in my mind! Ok you have to pity party some times, Im vegging today and doing pretty much the same as you, its not a pity party its a ME day, a recovery day before I set out to battle the world again.. STOP thinking you are saving the world from little old grief stricken you, you are funny and good company online and I dont have a clue what you look like even! You love animals, isnt there a blue cross/rspca equivalant around that you could get company and furry cuddles and wont cost you a penny, bet they will be over joyed to see you. How about a OAP home, go and read to some one they will be over joyed and probably a blooming good laugh to boot. How about not GAL but Giving AL to someone. Would the moggles be happy to be bundled into a cage and join a visiting programme like pat pets.. Im in fact Im insisting that you find one thing you can do for free for some one else by the end of this week and believe me Im gonna ask what you have done so :P
OMGoodness - throw down that gauntlet, why don't you?!!
No worries that I will fly the nest back to the UK again - that seemingly was my biggest mistake in June.
Mmm, I might just look at something on the animal front - only good stuff though, not if I had to be involved in lifting corpses and the like - just can't do that, even though I am a Nursey! Like the idea of going to read to some OAP's but again, that's a bit too much like a busman's holiday for me and my career! I'm such a fussy old chook these days - although to do something for someone more needy than I (is there anyone?) would be a wonderful thing.
I considered the Sally Army but I don't want to be converted to religion (no offence to anyone) - they would probably kick me out on my ear if they knew half of the thoughts that I had at the moment, anyhow!
OK - I'm running away now that you have scared me whitless ... getting the furries in from the garden, cuppa and beddie byes for us! Work in the morning and a late night, as it's C straight after work. Then it will be hump day, so that's the week half gone ... again.
Night night Rabbit - have a great 'me' afternoon. I bet you are finding so much more to do now that you have some contentment back in your life?!! I know that I would.
No advice Nell , just wanted to say I feel for you and hope something good happens for you jobwise!
Hello Nell,
I can't be sure where your H is at.
I can tell you that my H said and did all the same things your H has.
I can tell you that my H would avoid me before he left. I didn't know this of course. He would hide out down the road at a parking area with his truck and wait until I had left the office for the day before he came back to the shop. He then would wait it out there hoping that I would be gone to bed by the time he "came home from work". My H and I own a trucking company. I believed everytime he told me he was held up at a jobsite or in traffic when in reality he was taking a snooze to waste time from being in the same place with me.
My H was so hateful to me when he left. He only left when he had found the OW (a place to go). I am quite sure he had been on the look out for a place to go for several months. My bomb came swiftly. He found the OW on August 7th and in the evening on 8/16/05 he told me he was leaving me.
I heard the usual.....I hate you.....I don't love you.....Get used to the idea, we ARE getting a D.....I have known for years we were going to gat a D.....I hate the sight of you.....I hate the sound of your voice.....I could go on and on....I don't need to, you get the idea. The mantra is always the same with the MLC guys.
My H has also said that we are separated and I am not cheating or an adulteror because we are separated. WRONG....WRONG....WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That only served in his brain to validate his guilt and the existence of the OW.
After he left I went into a tailspin and did a 180 in about 30 days. I practiced and changed my moves and attitudes and style until I was genuine and changed forever. I was determined. I was going to win his heart back. H immediately saw the changes but was very reluctant to admit they were real. He accused me of being fake and it was all a ploy to get him back and once he was back I would revert to the Sanderika he despised. He started to come around at 4+ months after bomb. We maintained a relationship of recovery and rebuilding from that point forward.
It was only with time and patience and maintaining my new being that H can now admit I have changed. It has been a long 4+ years of changes and trials and proving myself. I was determined to also prove H wrong. Once I realized he was also watching to see me fall, I felt even more determined to win his heart.
I have made my H very comfortable around me and our home. I have won his friendship and he enjoys me. Our entire 4+ years of separation we maintained a physical relationship, which has only improved with time.
Some of the things H says now are:
I now realize I am a cheater.
I love you and I always will.
I miss you.
I love your cooking, you are the best you know.
I love our talks and communicating with you has always been easy.
I can't communicate with OW and I never could, it's impossible.
I love your butt.
I love to ML with you, it's a blast to be with you.
As I write these you all wonder why I am throwing in the towel. It's simple. H is still with OW and I have witnessed no significant changes in the demise of that relationship. I have come to realize that there is no place for me and son in H's world 100%. I am tired of settling for the tidbits. If I can't have him back 100%, I would rather be alone.
The one thing that is keeping H away at this point is he thinks I am no fun. I am a tired lady with a son to raise, 2 jobs to maintain, a home to care for inside and out, a dog to raise. My burdens are huge, I want to be fun and I know I could be. I don't have the opportunity to do much with all my responsibilities. I do get out and GAL a bit with girlfriends and my son. In my world H was the activity guy, his 2-4-6-10-18 wheeled toys and sense of adventure was always keeping us busy. I do not play with 4+ wheeled toys alone. I would get into trouble for sure and it would not be pretty. The most son and I do together is ride our dirt bikes around the property here at home, can't find too much trouble right here.
In fact one of the last things he said was....You are no fun. You used to be lots of fun with laughs and energy and spunk. I know the OW is free of responsibility and is a huge party girl. I am not going to compete with that right now. She can have her life on her Harley Davidson and bottle of Captain Morgan's.
That brings me to the next comment.....MLC guys are out for fun and lots of it. If we represent "no fun" they will not come back for that reason either. Fun has to be part of our changes. We need to learn to let our hair down and ramp up the party girls in each of us. We need to show our H's that we have not lost that side of us as we have aged and taken on responsibilities. We need to re-invent our fun side. It's just as important as our attitude towards H and our style and appearance.
I have rambled here quite a bit.....
Will go for now.....want to think more on this.
(((((Nell)))))
Sanderika
Thanks (((((Sanderika))))) - you know, so much of that makes sense to me and I realise that it's not me who's going crazy.
"My H has also said that we are separated and I am not cheating or an adulteror because we are separated. WRONG....WRONG....WRONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That only served in his brain to validate his guilt and the existence of the OW."
- I'm so glad for your quote here - I thought that it was only me that felt that way. You have validated that H is wrong and not me. We are legally married - there is no LEGAL separation here. Therefore, he is cheating - and cheaters lie.
"I have made my H very comfortable around me and our home. I have won his friendship and he enjoys me"
- so, how did you get to this point from him hiding away from you and moving out???? I can barely get my H to communicate by email with me.
"The one thing that is keeping H away at this point is he thinks I am no fun"
- and maybe this is where I need to start. I have been so wrapped up in so many traumatic issues for the past few years, including my reactionary thoughts (depression?) to our emigration that I have lost my spunk. I don't think that I even know how to have fun anymore. When we were back home and I had my friends around me, it was easy - I was always laughing and jolly. Here, miserable, nothing to do, no place to go, no friends and a H who has been in the fog for a while seemingly, it was no wonder that I stopped laughing. That's what I need to work on - especially next time H sees me. Why haven't I seen that before now? H's ow is (I imagine) full of responsibility in that the tramp has kids - I don't. I'm free, I'm able to get out and drop anything at the drop of a hat .... perhaps that's my trump card .... now I need to play it ... but how so?? I have to find a way ....
Hi Nell
There is much wisdom in Sanderika's words.
I picked up on her comment regarding us "not being fun". That is one other thing that came up in my discussion with H. He wants to have fun and to share that fun with someone who can have fun and be fun.
For my part, I know how to have fun, I lost it, but I have got it back. I told H so the other night. It is easier for me I don't have little kids holding me back and I have a network of friends to have fun with.
It just raises a very important issue that life is short too short in fact to not have fun.
So Nell, in short if you can be fun and are fun and I can see you are just by our conversations here, show H that side of you, maybe he has just forgotten that Nell can have fun.
Oh and no more Pity Party for Nell.
Very wise words from Sanderika!
Nell you are fun, you have a wicked sense of humour, you can laugh, tease and joke with me someone you have never met, so its not going to be hard to make new friends once you have got over the eek help panic its all new barrier..
Its been the new sexy, sassy, teasing, joking, fun loving and more romantic rabbit that has caught Mr Rabbit's eye.. and the GAL is infectious, it gives you more to talk about, and you just have that isnt life fun glint in your eye, and you know what its like to wink in the mirror at that new sassy haircut of yours well its a wink you carry with you!
Although some folks think that being on here isnt GAL for me it has worked well, I have made fantastic new friends and learnt things about other places divorce procedures that I would never have known lol.. All jokes aside it has been GAL for me in another way.
So get that Anglo Aussie spirit out and start planning, another thought for cheap action, is do they have a riding school of sorts near you as saturdays are always busy and if you dont mind being with sprogs (children) they may be grateful for an adult to help out, supervise and groom/tack ponies. Or even when you get more monetary sorted out the odd riding lesson or hack..
Oh I hear you Oz but it's not quite that easy. How do I show H that I am fun when a) I really can't find anything right now to find fun in b) have no outlet in which to find fun and c) even if I managed a+b, how do I show that to H who is keeping as far away from me as he can muster?
I am so confused and torn now between maintaining nc, which goes against H's LL, and validating him, which is his LL?
I'm really angry with him too - he said that he would answer my emails over the weekend and here we are, Tuesday evening, with nothing. Of course, we know where he has been so let's see if there's a response by the time I get back from C this evening - I doubt it. I'm still waiting on booking a day off for the house tribunal but don't want to if he's going to say that he can't make it.
Gotta dash - don't want to be late for C!! Talk later ...
Good Evening Ladies, it's early morning for me on Tuesday.
I don't have much time this morn,
MLC Men:
Are looking to escape responsibility.
Are out to recapture their youth, a 46 year old man living life as a 17 year old teenager.
Are out to have fun and are having fun, they seek it. They are finding it in OW and in the freedom from us and the marriage.
They lie.
They cheat.
They are confused.
They are incapable of remembering words said to us. Whether it's "I'll call, text, email, see.....you." OR "I'll come by and help out with ( )." OR any trivial (to them) conversation we might have.
At the beginning they see us as an anvil tied to their legs. They are suffering in depression and unhappiness. They HAVE to run away. They run as far and as fast as they can. They convince thenselves and decide they hate us and cannot love us and never will again in order to make leaving easy.
What they don't see is the side of us that doesn't give up on them. They cannot imagine that they will be faced with a wife who won't give up. My H said I sent him into a complete tailspin by the surprise that I changed and maintained the changes. H said I threw him right threw a loop and that is what has kept a D at bay.
I only accomplished the changes with time and determination. H was able to see those changes over time and cannot deny they are real and are permanent. It took time. It took well over 4 years for us to get here. H cannot D me. H loves me. It's really hard to D someone you actually like to be with and love.
There is no overnight fix. It takes knowing your H and knowing what needs to be fixed to make the changes and bring him back in.
I can now get out a bit more and GAL. I want to. My son is now 13 and can stay alone for a few hours. I plan to do just that this season.
For me, when our son was born is when I lost my fun and spunk and spontaneous side. I took on the role of mother and father and did it very seriously. My H drives a truck and spends a lot of time away. I had to and not by choice. When H was home he wanted to play, it was hard with a little one. I made the mistake of not finding sitters. A control freak back then for sure. So, I can pinpoint when it started and now that son is older I have no excuse for getting back out there. I regret my choices of neglecting my H. I let him get away.
You don't see H much, when he is over make it count. Be fun, funny, carefree. Make a suggestion for a picnic. Make a suggestion for a nature walk. Ramp it up....suggest H meet you at a restaurant for a drink and appetizers. Look sexy and smell gorgeous. I know you are in a remote area, there must be something to do regardless.
(((((Nell))))) you have to win him back over to friendship before you can proceed with more. He will be gun shy. Treat him well. Greet him well. Be patient and gentle. Time will turn it around if he finds himself questioning his choice. You have the control to make him question his choice.
I have to run for work....later......
Sanderika
Nell hope youre ok hun, do I need to come bash the IC (((())))))
Hi Nell,
Just checking in on you
Cas
Hi Nell
You have to try and find the fun in even the smallest things. I know you don't see H much but when you do try and have something fun planned for while he is there, as Sanderika said, have a picnic, even if you have one at home, meet him somewhere so he can see you, the sexy sassy fun loving Nell with the big infectious smile arrive, who knows H may notice the admiring looks you get when you arrive from others.
Think of my sitch, the minute H realised others were looking and then thought that hey she could already be seeing someone else, he threw a bit of hissy fit, acted like a teenager again but then came running back.
As LR suggested try to find something in the volunteer line of work for a weekend here and there at an animal shelter, anything. Do you have a community centre at all where you live or near where you live Nell?
...I don't know if it's truth or the MLC speaking. He says that we should never have gotten married - that he realised very early on that he was still in love with his old gf (they were NEVER an item, I have since learned from his friend)! He says that over the years he has enjoyed our life together and he has totally loved me but the past few years have been wrong and he was telling me so but I was just not listening. (You know, all the usual rewriting of history, leaving all the good parts out and concentrating on the negative stuff).
...
Now, he says that he has had enough. He wants to love, be loved, have a life and be happy - all the things that he thinks he can't have with me. He says that we have gone down ever widening parallel paths and there is no turning back - not ever. He seems to be having his needs fulfilled by ow and his only sadness is that the tramp lives interstate and he can't be there or vice versa due to 'barriers' whatever that means ... that's the only sadness I ever see coming from him - NOTHING to do with us or our situation. He has left me in his head and in his heart.
...
... he's not playing and I believe that this is for real. It's why I feel so desperate and that I am not going to win him back, whatever I do.
My W is in her own MLC, but
I went through my own and it's probably not even completely over. But when reality smacked me in the face I came to my senses. I realized I couldn't recapture my youth and I'm learning to appreciate my age. It caused a lot of damage that my family and I are going to suffer through for a long time.
I don't know if my W or your H will get to that point. At least not without doing more permanent damage. And maybe never fully. I waver at times but the real way through this for me is to remember how my W dealt w/ me. She suffered but was strong and supportive. She got a life, took care of our kids and herself. I have to keep remembering that.
Take it from someone who was willing to give it all up, that MLC illusion makes people stupid. History is rewritten, love is thrown under the bus. But I know now that real, deep and vital love is so much more worth it than trying to turn yourself into the teenager/20-something again.
Besides not being able to go back, those times really were harder than we want to believe. I was lonely back then, wishing I would find that person who could "get me." I did and screwed it up.
Take some comfort in that and try not to fall into the regression trap yourself. It's seductive, but very false.
Thanks LR, Cas and Oz
Oh I hear the advice alright and I know that you think that I am blocking it but truly, H is so done that it's difficult to even get him to have more than one cup of tea whilst he is here, never mind a picnic! (He knows how much I love picnics and it was our last trip out, so he would avoid it just to be awkward anyhow). I can't get him to meet me out for coffee - I tried three or four times and he kept refusing, with excuses.
No community activities here yet as it's a new suburb and nothing established.
I've managed to hold off texting H all day. I'm not sure that nc is the way to go, as I have explained before but I am doing it out of the lack of imagination to do anything else. The temptation is to ask him to meet me, at a weekend, so that we can discuss the finances - this time with boundaries in regard to him flouncing out - and then ask if I can use his car to go get some stuff from that I need for the garden (he has a tow hitch and I do not). He may offer to drive me, if the going is good!
OK - so today's conundrum is, do I let him know that there are some electoral papers here for him? This could be a way to introduce the discussion as above or is this pursuit wrapped up (not meaning to be)?
H has still not emailed me, as he said he would, over the weekend. I want to book the day off work for the tribunal but am still waiting on his confirmation that he will be coming along - as it's important, I don't that that it would be pursuing if I approached him (again) in that regard or, as I have already asked him once and he has not responded, would that be 'nagging'? Oh, this is all so difficult to dance around a man who I could say ANYTHING to a few months ago.
In C last night, C asked me to do some homework and write a list of what makes me angry with H - I came home and wrote two pages, straight off! It has made me start to think .... perhaps I am more lonely than just missing him. Perhaps I am more in love with myself than I am with him, perhaps I trust myself more than I do him .... perhaps I deserve more than him. Perhaps I don't NEED him ... I just want him. And I do. I very much do.
Thank you Mark - I hear the message, as well as your pain.
I want to be strong and stick this out in the hope that H will come to his senses. At this time, I don't see that I have much option as my isolation dictates. However, given time - and if H does what he is threatening, to move away - I won't see the point of hanging around here and will look to find a new life for myself elsewhere - though where is the big question.
I am so fearful of my future if it is to be alone.
Hi Nell,
Wish I could loan you some of my new detachment which I seem to have in spades right now! I'm really to the point of keeping up my changes for myself with no expectations of saving the marriage but I see how you are struggling to implement the perception of loving detachment. I don't blame you for wanting to pursue and think up excuses to see or talk to him...but it's not fixing things with H, right? You really are not going to make the situation any worse by trying the NC or very limited NC for awhile, right?
We're all afraid of being alone...but you're right that sometimes we look back and see that it can be so lonely even being in a marriage (if it is broken.) Do you have also some spiritual faith or support to turn to? Although I don't discuss it much with anyone (either here or in my 'real' life) I find that my faith has been my rock through all these horrible times. It's kept me from going crazy in a crazy-making situation! LOL
So, I think that I have just worked something out. I know that we shouldn't second guess and all that but we are talking here about a couple who used to buy the exact same cards for one another and could finish one another's sentences.
So, this is what I think:
H is interstate with ow - and that's why I haven't heard a pip from him. I reckon that he has taken two weeks leave and has gone over there ... we have had no leave since last October (save a week at Christmas) and he must have accumulated some which he now has to use. This makes sense to me in that, as my recent 'find' from the tribunal, he told them that he had 'work commitments' until 6 October so to delay the hearing until after that. All makes sense now.
Therefore, I shall not contact him. It would only upset me further to have my suspicions confirmed but I KNOW in my heart that I am right. It's why he has not responded to my email of last week in which I suggested that we should meet up prior to the tribunal. He knew that he wouldn't be here and he probably hasn't got the backbone to admit it.
What puzzles me though, is when I challenged him on this previously, he just said that he DID have work commitments and 'stuff' going on. Why would he do that? If he considers that he is saving my feelings, why would he bother?
Oh, I am so ready to rail at him BIG TIME but I am trying to think of how I communicate that I know this, whilst at the same time, continue to DB. Anyone got any bright ideas? I don't want him to think that I am a fool and don't know what he's doing but I want some answers to my questions.
Part of me thinks that, if I am right, this may be a testing time - the longest time with ow and the tramps baggage may wake him up to the reality of the grass not being greener .... who knows? Perhaps it will be a blessing in disguise.
When I thought that he had come back West, I was happ(ier) but now, with this new thought, I am paranoid and filled with rage again. Why can't I just let go and be at peace with myself????
Well you might be right on this one but I'd see it as a bonus, two whole weeks of her and did I hear you right she has kids too! Well she wont have been able to keep it together for a whole fortnight so may have done some serious damage who knows!
But bearing in mind that we all last week kept saying to Oz dont panic it could be a good thing, just keep telling yourself that too.
Working on the IC on your rage symptoms seem a very good idea, as certainly this is something which irrates your H and you need to nail for yourself more than anyone to stop it eating away at you.
As for me Happy Rabbit became Silly Rabbit and made a faux pas which hopefully Mr Rabbit wont use as a pull back, so angry with myself as it was easily remedied.
Thanks Buttercup. I appreciate your kind words and empathy.
I have tried nc before and it took 3 weeks to flush H out. It's almost two weeks now, save for my emergency phone call to him at the weekend. I am trying again though, knowing that, failing all else, I shall see him at our home builders tribunal mid-October when we go for our compensation hearing.
Yes, it's lonely. With no friends and family here, it's the pits being totally on my own when I beat myself up knowing that others are all with someone - even if it's not the person that they want with all their heart. I envy the lights in my neighbours windows, knowing that their family units are all intact and cosy. Meanwhile, I'm like an old spinster and take my 2 cats off to bed with me each night, no later than 8pm. How sad is that?
I am afraid that I don't have any spiritual faith to keep me warm and to park my lonely boat against. I do have some personal beliefs but not to the extent that some here will find comfort in. I like to say that I 'hedge my bets' but talk to 'God' and 'pray' for all the sorrowful souls that are on this board - including myself.
I wish that you could send me some of your new detachment too!! Good luck with yours - seems like you are getting through this in your own time and working with your own rules. I shall keep checking in on you ... !
My lights are on but plenty of people would not guess what is really going on. Bet there are other lonely souls on your block.
Who knows Rabbit but it's eating me up. Last week I thought that he wasn't at work as he had't answered an email but a few hours later, a response. I know that it's just so easy to let your brain run away with you but I know him and with the date having been set down a few weeks back, it all becomes clear now. It also makes me realise that the saying of "believe half of what you see and none of what you hear" is true. He is cheating and he did lie - he could have told me that he was going away and he chose not to. Then he tells me that I am the liar for not declaring my earnings to him?!! Helloooooo.
If he is interstate, I hope that the true colours come out and he has lots of time left there to consider what's going on.
Yes, this particular IC exercise has helped a little, just as I was giving up on it all.
Have posted on your thread re your faux pas!
Woke up this morning and felt that there was not much purpose to the day. I don't know what I am getting up and carrying on for any more. I work hard toward the weekend and then, when it arrives, I realise how I'm better off in work. There's nothing to give me purpose at the moment, excepting for the furries. I'm fed up of moaning and whinging and looking in the mirror to an unhappy soul. I have been on my own for four lonely months now and I am starting to bleed out of all that I have in me. I don't feel like I have many reserves left and I don't even get some of the little crumbs that H used to throw at me when this all first kicked off.
I don't know what to do next. I don't think nc is the way but I'm so petrified of doing anything else until at least 6 October. I know it doesn't sound like it's long away but it may as well be years ahead the way that I currently feel.
There surely must be another lonely soul Buttercup - it would be nice to find them and at least we could share a coffee or two!
That's the thing isn't it - no-one knows what goes on behind closed doors and sometimes that's just as well.
I asked my C if there were other people in my situation who might like to meet for a coffee and she said that she would look in to it. They have to be careful evidently due to confidentiality but I suggested that we sign disclaimers which would allow C to pass along phone numbers to those who expressed an interest only. The rest would be up to us. Nothing happened on that yet but it would be good if it did.
I'm thinking that it may be an idea to start up a group on meetup.com for just this purpose. There doesn't seem to be anything interesting for me on that website and it could do me and others some good. Must think more on that as we head toward the weekend.
Nell I'm very sorry to hear your still in that emotional valley.
I find myself sitting here thinking of what it is I can say or do for you that hasn't been said or done already. I have my kids to keep me busy. I can only imagine that which you face everyday when you return home. There must be something single adults do out there ... something to find a friend. What about those you work with? I've found a few friends at school that will listen and give input. No our friendship isn't one to write a book about. However, they are listening and being supportive of me. To be honest that is all I needed to start feeling better about my stitch. Positive reinforcements. Keep looking and don't give up.
Also what are your thoughts concerning you leaving that home to a more populated area? Perhaps I didn't read back far enough and you've already stated such. Nell I hope you can find some peace within yourself. I found that it wasn't the WAW that controlled my emotions. IT WAS ME!! I was the one making me depressed about life in general. It was I who decided I wasn't going to let the chitty thing she has done affect me any longer. Ya see it really isn't about them. I know you know that NELL. You just have to start living it girl.
It took a lot of work on my part to get to where I'm at. Do I think of her? Yes often. Do I let it ruin my day? NO LONGER. Ya see Nell thats it ... PMA. Over and Over and Over until finally you don't have to think about doing it. You just live it because it becomes part of you.
Also I realized I was dying inside thinking about her and what she has done. I sat in bed wondering if she was doing the same thing. They aren't sitting around thinking of us. They are getting on with whatever it is they think they need to find. When I realized that it was a slap in the face. What the hell was I doing in this emotional cesspool?
Nell we can all give the best advice in the world to ya. In the end it is you that must act them out. Lord knows I didn't listen to those who have been there for me. Ask Sandi2, she warned me over and over. I didn't listen and the WAW was allowed to stick her dagger in me once again. I had to learn the hard way and it was then I realized life is too short to wait around for her. I love her, yes, even though she has hurt me horribly. This is why I will move on. Moving on doesn't mean I will forget about her or that I will never have her in my life. It simply means I will no longer sit in the valley waiting. Live for today Nell, live for yourself. I think you know all of this. I just feel it is worth saying again. PMA
With Love
Shane
Finding peace in oneself makes us whole. We can't successfully live with another if we can't live by ourselves. We can't successfully love another if we can't love ourselves. The point isn't whether D is right its that you'll be happy, healthy and strong no matter which path your marriage ultimately follows.
Nell, this quote came from redsoxfan. I really liked it and thought you might like it too and that you might like to keep it for your quote bank.
Cas
Nell I'm very sorry to hear your still in that emotional valley.
I find myself sitting here thinking of what it is I can say or do for you that hasn't been said or done already. I have my kids to keep me busy. I can only imagine that which you face everyday when you return home. There must be something single adults do out there ... something to find a friend. What about those you work with? I've found a few friends at school that will listen and give input. No our friendship isn't one to write a book about. However, they are listening and being supportive of me. To be honest that is all I needed to start feeling better about my stitch. Positive reinforcements. Keep looking and don't give up.
Also what are your thoughts concerning you leaving that home to a more populated area? Perhaps I didn't read back far enough and you've already stated such. Nell I hope you can find some peace within yourself. I found that it wasn't the WAW that controlled my emotions. IT WAS ME!! I was the one making me depressed about life in general. It was I who decided I wasn't going to let the chitty thing she has done affect me any longer. Ya see it really isn't about them. I know you know that NELL. You just have to start living it girl.
It took a lot of work on my part to get to where I'm at. Do I think of her? Yes often. Do I let it ruin my day? NO LONGER. Ya see Nell thats it ... PMA. Over and Over and Over until finally you don't have to think about doing it. You just live it because it becomes part of you.
Also I realized I was dying inside thinking about her and what she has done. I sat in bed wondering if she was doing the same thing. They aren't sitting around thinking of us. They are getting on with whatever it is they think they need to find. When I realized that it was a slap in the face. What the hell was I doing in this emotional cesspool?
Nell we can all give the best advice in the world to ya. In the end it is you that must act them out. Lord knows I didn't listen to those who have been there for me. Ask Sandi2, she warned me over and over. I didn't listen and the WAW was allowed to stick her dagger in me once again. I had to learn the hard way and it was then I realized life is too short to wait around for her. I love her, yes, even though she has hurt me horribly. This is why I will move on. Moving on doesn't mean I will forget about her or that I will never have her in my life. It simply means I will no longer sit in the valley waiting. Live for today Nell, live for yourself. I think you know all of this. I just feel it is worth saying again. PMA
With Love
Shane
Good advice here Nell. Good luck to you. Well said Shane!
Hi Nell
I can't add anything other than to say I agree with what Shane has said it is all so true and I couldn't have said it any better.
I have been sitting here all day trying to think of what to say to you to give some comfort and then along came Shane.
I love that quote Cas.
((((((((((((((((Nell)))))))))))))
Shane is very eloquent and has put it so well! Not a lot can be added. Did you look on the library notice board when you went lots of things are often advertised there?
Hi Shane
You are such a good person, I just know that in my heart. Thank you a million times over for dropping in with your sensible and heartfelt words which have made an impact upon me.
To answer some of your questions: work is a temporary situation for me at the moment. As I have had to hit the ground running, I have not wanted to wear my heart on my sleeve and no-one knows what is going on in my life. If I am to be lucky enough to get my contract extended to a full time position, maybe then will be the opportunity to spill the beans but until then, I have to keep quiet. No-one is going to employ an emotional wreck and, although I made an error at work today (administrative only, fortunately), I was able to clean it up for myself and no harm done. If they had been aware of a) my situation and b) my error, it may have been a different story.
I have thought about leaving here and it's certainly not out of the question. However, until I have given this more time and I know that it is definitely over and the house gets sold, then I am hanging on to the only safety net that I have, whatever the cost - this is my home and I can't leave until I have no other options.
You are so right about who controls your emotions and, you will be proud of me now, but I have just received 3 emails from H and I have controlled myself marvellously! I am practising my PMA and this is the time to start and continue the way forward. I wanted to reply immediately but I have restrained myself. It has taken him almost two weeks to reply so I think that he can wait a few days from me! I do feel that I want to rant a bit over the subject matter but I won't - I shall get that anger out and then sit and write my responses - which will be posted here, first.
You are right I know - it's not about him or us now - it's about me and my cats! I want to start living it Shane, I really do. I just don't know how at the moment but I am trying, honestly I am. Finding PMA is so difficult. Two of the girls in the office are getting M any day now and that's all the talk is ... I was even asked to contribute for the presents today, which I felt a bit miffed about seeing that I don't know the girls and have only been there two weeks. Jealousy was another factor but I swallowed that as I got my wallet out!
I can relate to your feeling of dying inside - and this is where I kind of feel upset for H when he told me that he felt as though he was dying in our M - but he had control over that and he did precious little about it. I have no control over this, even though I am trying to gain control by changing the way I feel.
Today I have been quite good - I have been so busy and stressed over other things that I had little time to think about H, other than when I was driving to my appointments. Now that I am home, it's all flooding back again but I am trying not to be 'in the valley' ... difficult though when I had a GAL activity of meeting my friend around at her daughters this evening, got there and they were out! Geez, was it something that I said??!!
I hear what you are saying about acting out on people's great advice but I also know that you appreciate how hard that is when you have no PMA, feel flat and can only see dark clouds where there should be sunny skies. Throw some of the other problems in to the mix and it's no wonder that I can't get off my starting blocks.
I do promise Shane, I will try to work my way out of this valley and be happier. I don't want to feel this way and I can see that it's physically not good for me - my skin is awful and I look like a wreck now that we are almost at the end of the week. I'm not sleeping properly and I feel ready to pack it all in.
This weekend, I shall go to the library and then take a drive up the new road near us. I want to check it out! Some more gardening to do should help with my PMA and I am going to go through some boxes that are here and have never been unpacked. It will help, if we go or if we stay in this home. It may also feel like a bit of life laundry, so it's all for the good, whichever way I view it!
Thanks again for dropping in and I hope that you will be back soon. I shall visit you at your post later ...
(((Shane)))
So, here's the thing. I have just spent ages answering H's emails and after all the diatribe, decided that to be business like and to the point (which he prefers instead of a long winded email) I have dot pointed the following response:
The water problem got resolved - cost me an arm and a leg for a Bank Holiday weekend call out
The position was exceptionally frustrating - I over-reacted when water was gushing everywhere
I frequently forget that you are no longer available to help me
I was not ranting - I purely said the truth of what was on my mind, which appeared to have upset you
The F word was not called for and I did not deserve it
I fail to see why you are so annoyed with me all the time - please explain to help me understand
I shall also be away for the tribunal hearing - please can you re-schedule
I have not answered his question of how is work or how am I doing. No mention of the cats. His first email was four words long - Water Bill paid today. Second email a bit more chatty but accusative of me ranting at him and third email basically telling me that he would 'gen me up' on what to expect at the tribunal.
So, is my response too blunt and business like and not affirming/validating enough (!!) and, should I do a 180 and go to the tribunal alone, allowing H to 'gen me up' first or do I just cancel and get him to make the alternate appointment? There's a lot riding on the outcome of the tribunal - it's fairly huge and another big cop-out from H. Granted that he has gone on his own to the preliminary hearings (I was unable to due to work) but this should be the final and I am afraid that it's too valuable to screw up. They will make minced meat of a 'mere' female on her own.
Also, what do people think on the timing of the response ... should I just wait a day or two or wait until early next week? Oh - and I am not going away at all, just making that bit which gives the 'mysterious Nell' a trip out of the valley!
ALTERNATIVELY - I could cancel the tribunal myself and stay dark, with no answer to any of the emails. Think that would just P him off however. Answers please!
Big John, Cas, Oz and Rabbit - thanks for comments today. All very useful and supportive - as always.
This evening I shall go to bed a bit happier, knowing that the ball is back in my court and ready for play ... it seems that H is back afterall. Of course, it could be deliberate timing of the emails to throw me off the scent - who knows and right now, do I care? NO, I don't .... oh, darn it! Almost had you fooled then! Yes, sadly I do - weeeeeelll, I have to be truthful now, don't I?
^^ Just read H's emails again and he asks "You going OK"?
What am I supposed to answer to that? I want to say, "WTF do you think? - NO I'M NOT OK - look at how you have left me - totally isolated and with a broken heart - and BTW, the cats are fine, since you didn't bother to ask."
Each time, I am so glad to hear from him but I just want to scream out my responses and sarcasm at him. I so hope that the C can do as she has promised this week - to help me channel that anger and to make my responses work for me.
I am totally going to ignore it as I can't justify it with a diplomatic enough response. My brain feels locked to answering all of these questions in a DB way ... I can think of the answers for everyone else's situation but not my own. What's the deal there?
Just conscious that me venting here will move my previous post ^^ requiring answers further up the board, so will bump and hope for some responses pretty quickly - PLEASE!!!
Nell,
Sweetie........deep breath.......in......out slowly.....
Ok now.
I'm not entirely in the loop here about this tribunal. Can you explain to me what that is about. I've scrolled back some but can't seem to locate it. I'm pretty new to your sitch so a quick catch up might help me help you.
First....don't send anything to H yet. Do his emails warrant a response? Is he asking you questions that need answers or are you just answering to have communication with him?
Nell leave it till tomorrow, I know you want to business like but that sounds too
1) I feel like this
2) YOU made me feel this
3) Im so fffff offfed with YOU I DONT CARE
4) Quite frankly go jump in the lake
5) BTW the cats say HI
He can wait for another twenty four hours, we can go through a response tomorrow hun! Hope by now you will have partaken of your soaps and be snoozing with the moglets.. Huge hugs and Im wishing even more that you wernt twenty four hours away so I could adminster them in person!
So, here's the thing. I have just spent ages answering H's emails and after all the diatribe, decided that to be business like and to the point (which he prefers instead of a long winded email) I have dot pointed the following response:
The water problem got resolved - cost me an arm and a leg for a Bank Holiday weekend call out
The position was exceptionally frustrating - I over-reacted when water was gushing everywhere
I frequently forget that you are no longer available to help me
I was not ranting - I purely said the truth of what was on my mind, which appeared to have upset you
The F word was not called for and I did not deserve it
I fail to see why you are so annoyed with me all the time - please explain to help me understand
I shall also be away for the tribunal hearing - please can you re-schedule
I have not answered his question of how is work or how am I doing. No mention of the cats. His first email was four words long - Water Bill paid today. Second email a bit more chatty but accusative of me ranting at him and third email basically telling me that he would 'gen me up' on what to expect at the tribunal.
So, is my response too blunt and business like and not affirming/validating enough (!!) and, should I do a 180 and go to the tribunal alone, allowing H to 'gen me up' first or do I just cancel and get him to make the alternate appointment? There's a lot riding on the outcome of the tribunal - it's fairly huge and another big cop-out from H. Granted that he has gone on his own to the preliminary hearings (I was unable to due to work) but this should be the final and I am afraid that it's too valuable to screw up. They will make minced meat of a 'mere' female on her own.
Also, what do people think on the timing of the response ... should I just wait a day or two or wait until early next week? Oh - and I am not going away at all, just making that bit which gives the 'mysterious Nell' a trip out of the valley!
ALTERNATIVELY - I could cancel the tribunal myself and stay dark, with no answer to any of the emails. Think that would just P him off however. Answers please!
Your response doesn't sound businesslike to me. The tone is more "You've ruined my life and I hate you"
It might help people give feedback if you are okay with posting what he wrote to you.
You might want to tell him how much the weekend water repair call cost rather than an arm & a leg.
Maybe it wasn't exactly a rant but telling him "he had better get home and sort out his responsibilities before living his adulterous lifestyle", wasn't appropriate. How about something like:
"I apologize for my behavior on the telephone. I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help, I said some things I regret."
Maybe you could say that you wonder if it might be better to reschedule the tribunal. Try to sound confident that you could handle it alone if need be, but raise the possibility that having both of you there for this final one might make your position stronger.
Tell him you are fine. Give some upbeat one liner about the weather or work or something.
I think it would be okay to reply when you get the right tone. There are time constraints on the tribunal issue and the sooner he sees a rational response from you the better I think.
Hi Mishka
Appreciate you dropping by.
I have slept since receiving H's emails and don't intend doing anything about them yet. None of the 3 warrant a response, other than the one about the tribunal and I am trying to make up my mind whether to go alone or not. My sister feels that I should go and take H's offer of him preparing me before I do go. I'm not so sure.
Basically, the builders screwed up on a lot of things when building our home. They have been forced to rectify but some things that they can't - for one reason and another. This is all about how they do rectify, or they pay compensation. It's like a court hearing but a little less formal, apparently. The last date was put off as I was not in a fit state to go, just after the bomb and H was working/away/couldn't be bothered. Can't remember.
My feeling is that I would rather that H change the date but I am wondering too if he is bailing out on this as it is more responsibility which he doesn't want - and would mean that we would have to meet, which would leave him feeling disloyal to ow. It's why we have the most minimal contact these days.
Your input will help, Mishaka. Thanks again!
Nell, when I read your response to H last night I could feel your pain but it came across as very harsh and angry. I slept on it overnight and I'm wondering if you really need to reply at all except for the hearing stuff.
After I posted my dot points Rabbit, I realised that they were wrong. I am starting to get some good responses back, as you see here, and I can wait and do this over the weekend when I am a little less angry.
Thank you for your input too. I also wish you were here for hugs!!
I rang my emotionally unavailable sister (in the UK) last night and we talked for two hours which was just lovely. It was good to hear someone's voice and that the subject matter was not work! Sister said much as Dudess has suggested, regarding the tribunal. That being the case, I really need to get H to action the postponement on Monday as the date for the hearing is 15 Oct.
I feel shaky today and very, very tired. It must be all that climibing that I did last night to show Shane that I am trying to climb out of the valley!
Ditto Cas.
This is what I struggle with, constantly. The pain and anger makes me harsh and, whilst I don't want to feel that way, I understand that it is hampering my DB efforts.
As d/w C, this is holding me back from making forward steps with H and so she says that we will work on that from Tuesday forward.
Meanwhile, I have to keep my lid on it and I think that maybe you are right - only the tribunal stuff warrants a response.
Thanks Dudess - I'm not so good at hiding my feelings, am I?!!
OK - I'm chopping out some stuff that is not relevant but basically H's email/s stated:
"Sorry, but I will be unable to attend this hearing as I will be in Sydney for most of that week. I have to go [removed text]. I'll happily gen you up before the day so you know what to expect. Should be no biggie".
Second email:
"So how did you go with the water problem? I understand you were frustrated at the position you were in but that does not excuse you ranting at me. I probably should not have used the "f" word either but these things happen when you are annoyed. How did you get it resolved?
How's things at work? You going OK"?
You are right too about my being inappropriate in my comments to him and therefore I think that your suggested words are much better! Feels like I am always apologising to him though and I rarely get such from him.
I think that I shall put together my response when I get in from work this evening and post it for comments. I can then send it on Sunday and H will be able to action the postponement on Monday.
Appreciate you all being here and helping me with this. I feel so out of control again and can feel myself tailspinning.
Hey Nell, You might be having a hard time with DBing but it's great that you were able to hold off and post here first about the emails. I know how easy it is to look at other people's situation and think of what to say....but much harder to get perspective on our own stuff - we're so emotional and it's hard to get past the emotions to see what will really be helpful for us to do.
You don't have to follow this or agree but IMHO looking at his emails as a third party, the thing that I think would most 180 & shock him would be to simply reply with one email to all three and have it be short, positive, & breezy along the lines of:
Hi Husband!
Things are fine. Gave it some thought and don't think I'll need your help with the tribrunal but I appreciate the offer of help.
Take Care!
Nell
(It is a major drag going to court on your own but surviving court on your own or with your sis could be a confidence building experience...if he divorces you, you'd have to handle court on your own or with support of your family, right? I kinda use this thought as a double-check for deciding some of my actions..."If he divorced me, would I likely do this action even though I never did when married?" If yes then I give it a try...so far this rule seems to be very helpful for me.)
Good Luck no matter what you decide to do!
Thanks for your Good Luck wishes, Buttercup.
I do think that it's harder to get perspective on your own situation than other people's - and yes, I am one emotional person therefore it's much more difficult for me!
I have indeed decided to answer with just one email .. only in regard the tribunal and nothing else. He always ignores anything that is considered 'superficial' so I'm going to do the same as a 180.
This isn't 'court' as such but it is a formal proceding and court-like. Unfortunately, my sister and family are all in the UK and I don't have anyone here to support me. I am only just making some new pals and even then, I can't see them very often due to their own circumstances - hence me being in Total Isolation.
Have not had too bad a day today - been really busy at work sorting some problem cases and have driven 100's of kilometres!
Now that I am home, it's all come knocking on my door again and the weekend is stretching long and lonely until Monday's return to work.
Decided on an early night (again) to catch up on some sleep and then some serious housework tomorrow as I haven't done much in ages. It doesn't get too dirty here with only me and practically living in my bedroom (and office) at that!
Not spending the evening here. That's a 180 on myself.
Decided to send the email to H this evening (much as Dudess outlined earlier) and then H has the weekend to contemplate the tribunal matters.
OK - I'm outta here. Catch you all tomorrow. Good morning, good evening, good night - iechid da. (Good Health)
OK folks, can't go without posting my intended response to H - comments please (I feel that the tone is right but it may be a bit too long). Also, advice on names - H has started to sign off with his name but has only used mine once. Do I do the same or just nothing ... ?? Also, what's my closing comment ... "talk soon" ??
I have thought about this one overnight and I feel that it might be better to reschedule the tribunal. I could evidently handle it alone but the possibility of having us both there for the 'final hearing' may go in our favour as our position would appear stronger. I would appreciate it if you would contact them on Monday and ask for a postponement. Another factor is that I now have a very heavy caseload at work and am not sure that I would be able to get the day off as my contract has been extended until the end of that week (16 October).
I apologise for my behavior on the telephone. I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help, I said some things that I later regretted.
I am fine thank you and so are the cats.
I hope that you have a good time in Sydney and that the induction goes well. I'm pleased that work appears to be getting a bit more interesting for you - I know how dispondent you have become with your career over the past year or so. Perhaps this will help?
Meanwhile, P is back from Hong Kong - has bought four new 'travelling shirts' and has put a good offer in on a new house. He's keen to pursue it until he wins, working off the "bid big for better" rather than "right price gets something that no-one else wanted" mentality. Can't blame him.
Current news is that we are planning a trip over to see a friend on the Gold Coast for a much needed break - can't wait to ride some of those rollercoasters - I know, that's ME talking!! Not sure about popping in on the Polar Bears though - would love to see that artificial habitat but might ruin a few great memories of the real thing. Still, time to consider ... !
Thats nice Nell,
I'd call it softly business like
Glad you are taking some Nell time out this evening, I know what you mean about the house not taking up so much time when on your own but that can only be a good thing!
Expect you and the moggles are snuggled up watching your soaps by now, babycakes says hi to welsh/aussie mates and thanks them for their concern and she is feeling much better, so much better her mummy is having to make a run for it to get out the front door!
That is a very positive email! Not sure about the name thing...I'd say go with your gut.
Something more like this might be better...
'Hi H
Thank you for your emails. I think, with all things considered, that both of us being at the hearing would put us in a stronger position however I don't think I am now able to make any date before 16th October. If we postpone it till then that should be enough notice for us both to find a free date. Would you be able to call them and find out when the next available date is? Let's hope it is a successful outcome!
Good news on the job front for you, I'm pleased it is going well. The cats and I are good thanks and work is busy (insert an amusing but short cat anecdote here).
The water is now sorted thank goodness although the weekend callout charge was extortionate. I nearly died on the spot (or your own words!) when he told me the cost. I apologise for my behaviour on the phone, I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help, I said some things I regret.
Thanks
Nell
OK folks, can't go without posting my intended response to H - comments please (I feel that the tone is right but it may be a bit too long). Also, advice on names - H has started to sign off with his name but has only used mine once. Do I do the same or just nothing ... ?? Also, what's my closing comment ... "talk soon" ??
I have thought about this one overnight and I feel that it might be better to reschedule the tribunal. I could evidently handle it alone but the possibility of having us both there for the 'final hearing' may go in our favour as our position would appear stronger. I would appreciate it if you would contact them on Monday and ask for a postponement. Another factor is that I now have a very heavy caseload at work and am not sure that I would be able to get the day off as my contract has been extended until the end of that week (16 October).
I apologise for my behavior on the telephone. I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help, I said some things that I later regretted.
I am fine thank you and so are the cats.
I hope that you have a good time in Sydney and that the induction goes well. I'm pleased that work appears to be getting a bit more interesting for you - I know how dispondent you have become with your career over the past year or so. Perhaps this will help?
Meanwhile, P is back from Hong Kong - has bought four new 'travelling shirts' and has put a good offer in on a new house. He's keen to pursue it until he wins, working off the "bid big for better" rather than "right price gets something that no-one else wanted" mentality. Can't blame him.
Current news is that we are planning a trip over to see a friend on the Gold Coast for a much needed break - can't wait to ride some of those rollercoasters - I know, that's ME talking!! Not sure about popping in on the Polar Bears though - would love to see that artificial habitat but might ruin a few great memories of the real thing. Still, time to consider ... !
Very good tone Nell.
On the names question, he has started to sign off with his name so maybe you could do the same. You are being no colder nor warmer than he.
You might want to consider responding to his question re: the water. It is his house too so that could be considered a business issue.
Possibly think about not saying so much about current events. Like about his work just leave it at "I hope that you have a good time in Sydney and that the induction goes well." it's pleasant, but not overly interested.
Do you want to give him that much infor about your upcoming trip? Consider the benefits of a bit more mystery in deciding.
Good job Nell.
Hi Nell, I think the tone is much more pleasant this time but perhaps the content makes you a bit too much like a loving wife .I think you need only the info about the hearing and possibly the water. By giving him the other info you're putting him a very comfortable position and as it's already been said, you are removing the mystery.
And, yes, I would sign off with my name. I actually started using Hi H and finishing with Thanks, W at the beginning when H used no intro or signoff and before long H followed my lead.
Hope your weekend is pleasant
Cas
Thanks all for your comments above.
I have gotten up this morning and pondered this whole situation again. I am considering being absolutely pitch black and postponing the tribunal for myself - not sending any emails to H whatsoever.
Just can't decide what I want to do but am taking another day to think it over.
If I do this, H may start to wonder - he will be angry that I have not answered but he still won't care and it may just add to his dislike of me for daring to ignore him. If I do respond, he will know all is well and nothing changes.
I don't know how to make decisions anymore. Not about this nor anything. I am mostly contemplating whether or not I move home next year and give up the life that was 'our' dream.
I think that the tribunal needs to be postponed whatever I do/do not say to H so I am going to email them today. That will be a 180 on it's own as H always deals with the co-ordinator. I shall merely copy H on the email so that he knows what I have done. He will think that I am throwing a hissy fit at his not going but at the moment, I just don't care.
More time required .... think Nell, think.
OK - done. I have emailed re the tribunal and copied H - not forwarded a copy, just c.c'd the email. That sends a message all of it's own as I normally forward and then add an explanation. This time - nothing. Now I wait to see if that brings a response from H.
I don't consider that his other emails really warrant a response and I feel good that I have taken matters in to my own hands - he's irresponsible right now and I have taken control of the one thing that I can! It's a 180 but one that he won't like.
If I change my mind about wanting to contact him, at least I have the drafted email ready - it makes me feel better that I have taken some action and yet still have a card up my sleeve in readiness to play. It does my PMA a bit of good and will get me through the weekend!
Am I right or wrong to have done this??
The new drafted email, just incase I decide to send it, looks like this - comments once again, please:
H
I thought about the tribunal and felt that it was better to reschedule. I could evidently handle it alone but the possibility of having us both there for the 'final hearing' may go in our favour as our position would appear stronger. A contributing factor in my decision is that I also have a very heavy caseload at work and will now struggle to get the day off. My contract has been extended until the end of that week (16 October).
I regret having over-reacted on the phone. I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help with the emergency. Seems that we both regret our exchange of words.
I am fine, thanks for asking, and so are the babies. Just planning a trip over to see a new friend on the Gold Coast for a much needed break.
I hope that you travel safely to Sydney and that the induction goes well.
W
The new drafted email, just incase I decide to send it, looks like this - comments once again, please:
H
I thought about the tribunal and felt that it was better to reschedule. I could evidently handle it alone but the possibility of having us both there for the 'final hearing' may go in our favour as our position would appear stronger. A contributing factor in my decision is that I also have a very heavy caseload at work and will now struggle to get the day off. My contract has been extended until the end of that week (16 October).
I regret having over-reacted on the phone. I panicked when I saw the water gushing and when I learned you weren't available to help with the emergency. Seems that we both regret our exchange of words.
I am fine, thanks for asking, and so are the babies. Just planning a trip over to see a new friend on the Gold Coast for a much needed break.
I hope that you travel safely to Sydney and that the induction goes well.
W
Love it!
I think it was fine that you made the decision about the tribunal yourself and emailed them. I urge you to send this email as a follow-up. Otherwise, the cc standing alone will likely come across as hostile/I'm not speaking to you, which is not the way you want to go.
Nell, your decision is right whichever way you went. It's your decision and you own it so be happy with it.
Your revised email is conciliatory. My earlier thoughts remain but Good work!
Re moving home.....is that really what's right or could you try somewhere else temporarily just as part of your new life/new chapter? Going home is safe and predictable and home will always be there! Just random thoughts but I want you to consider other options...there's a big world out there.
Hugs Nell,
Cas
Thanks Cas - truth be known, I don't want to do anything - other than to wait out H and be here for him when his fog lifts. Trouble is - and the down side meanwhile - is that I am existing and not having a life, right?
I have heard your story, JCJ's and others - then I ask myself, just how long do you wait? Success, it appears, comes to very few who are here and often those who are starting from a much better standing than I am. I don't want to go home - my knee-jerk in June showed me that but then what am I doing in a country all on my own, either? I've been here for four years and not made any friends - is this what the next four years holds for me too??
I wish that I could make some decisions but right now it's about all I can manage to decide whether I want ketchup or sauce!
Thanks Dudess - I have been considering the same and I agree. I will send H the email now that we are all (relatively) happy with it! Then I go quiet again ... right??
Nell, I'm still here but that's my choice and it still feels right at the moment but as soon as I feel it's all over it will be. How long we wait is dependant on so many things. I know H is still with ow but as she is an employee I guess it's a bit tricky anyway. I'm sure they're great friends but it really seems like a convenience thing to me, They don't live together and if H wants to spend time with me or with us as a family he does,,,,,not too concerned about her it seems.
Thanks for explaining Cas - now I can understand why you have hung on in there.
I just got a photo sent to me by text - of a woman all dressed up but sent to my work cell phone. My head started racing immediately but that's a stupid thought. H knows my work cell number but it is evidently not from him - and why would it be? I only got the phone last week so it must be meant for someone else, surely?? I am not going to start obsessing about this now, although it would be easy to do so! I shall show the picture to the girls at work on Monday and that should lay that one to rest!!
Oh Nell, I change day by day. I certainly know now that nc is really an easier path then being in contact. I have decided to give H some time to issue an invite and then when there's none, I'm going to tell him that the 'friendship' does not suit my needs. Hopefully when the business sells 'she' will disappear.
As for the photo, I'm thinking that since it is a work phone or could have been meant for the person who previously had the phone. You could text back and say sorry you sent it to the wrong number.
How was your day?
Good on you Cas - you are a lot stronger than I am but I guess that you are a good time ahead of me, too!
Yes, I'm sure that is exactly right about the photo. I'm not bothered - just good old paranoia kicking in. In a way, I was kind of hoping that it was a photo of ow as if so, H will be home any day soon - she's a right spanner bag!!
The day has been long and lonely but my own apathy has exacerbated that. I was going to go out but opted for some me time instead. Just watched some TV, hung out here, waited for some emails to come through - from anyone - and played door open/closer to the cats!
I'm off to bed shortly - it's almost 7pm and that's my time!
Catch you tomorrow. Have a good sleep Cas.
Nell, my MIL said on meeting ow, "Well he certainly didn't go for her for her looks!"
Ha, ha!!! You do sometimes wonder what the attraction is, don't you??
I think it's all about availability!
H is run off his feet running a business, taking wife to doctors and treatments, being mum and Dad. ow is caring, loving and helping him in such a difficult time...the rest is history.
And now I wonder if ow is 'the one', wouldn't you just get rid of me from your life completely, especially after 2 years separation?
Perish the thought Cas - I wonder why some of the men are hanging in there ... is it that they can't cut the safety net as they knew that they were on to a good thing with their W?
I fear that I may well be on that same page although the 'availability' in my case is the thing that could make things either work out or fizzle out for H. Evidently, I am hoping for the latter and the sooner the better.
I'm here - no kids, no ties, no binds - just me. H doesn't want that but in comparison he has gone for ow who lives interstate, with an unknown quantity of kids (at least two at home) and from goodness knows how many previous R's. H says that ow D her H because he was sleeping around. Uh hum - so what does the tramp do - why, she encourages my H to do the same ... so how does that work? Like an idiot, my H falls for the tricks and will now be lumbered with all her baggage - expecting me to lose my home and M to pay for it all. THIS STINKS. It is is injust and immoral.
I'm feeling like my bottle of water is slowly pouring down the plughole today. I just want to see H - it's been almost 3 weeks now and only the few emails that I got recently which has kept me going. He's definitely weaning me away from him. Meanwhile, I am here in our home and surrounded by our stuff. I wonder what his thoughts are? I think that he won't act now until after Christmas ... then I'm waiting for him to strike - big time.
I just don't know anymore how to even get him to come here and start any conversation, never mind R talk. I am just sat, waiting for him to come to me .... and I wait ... and wait ... and wait ..... When do I take some action for myself?? I was thinking of calling him to say that I will be in his neighbourhood on Wednesday evening - could we meet after work to discuss some financial matters. Is this a good or bad thing to do?? We do need to talk about stuff still, but now that I'm working it's not as crucial as it was before. I still feel that he's getting off lightly and there are some bills which he has failed to address, leaving me to pay them alone. Nevertheless, I do feel that Gucci would call my actions 'caving' and I don't want to be accused of that, so perhaps had better just let things ride along as they are at the moment??
I am just sat, waiting for him to come to me .... and I wait ... and wait ... and wait ..... When do I take some action for myself?? I was thinking of calling him to say that I will be in his neighbourhood on Wednesday evening - could we meet after work to discuss some financial matters. Is this a good or bad thing to do??
Bad thing. Very bad thing. Leave him alone for now.
Do nothing to move towards him. You have to allow space for him to move towards you.
Nell, from my own perspective I say leave it be. Do not contact him. Eventhough you don't realise it you are becoming stronger through nc. From my own personal perspective I was much stronger and more independent with NC. I probably should have made H work a bit harder to resume contact and I think if he doesn't initiate contact this week I will go quiet again. I've learnt now that it does affect him.
btw did you see that Greg Norman and Chris Evert have split?
I knew that answer before it arrived but you made me laugh Dudess - I love the way that you wrote your first sentence ... I felt like a naughty puppy who had pee'd on the floor!!!!!!! First laugh I have had in ages and put a <grin> on my face!!
I agree though - I should leave well alone. Thanks for confirming.
That also makes a lot of sense to me Cas. I can't fail to see how my H would also remain unaffected by nc with me but I think that he hides it so much better than I do. He's so very much his own man - always has been. Women are different, aren't we?
How sad that Chris and Greg have split up. I was looking at her on the Wall of Fame at Wimbledon when I was there in June. Remember she was once linked with Jimmy Connors?! I thought that they were the luckiest couple around in those days. She must be one rich lady $s wise but equally as poor in her heart now that her R leaves her in the same boat as the rest of us (presuming that she is a LBS)?
I think you're right on the differences between male and female there Nell. That's why I think you'll enjoy 'Why Women Talk....' My H is the same. He'll even go so far as to say things don't bother him but his actions show something else altogether.
If media is correct and Evert and Norman were having an affair to begin I just find it interesting that it really didn't last very long. Supports the theory that affairs don't usually end up happily ever after.
Indeed. Looking forward to my book arriving at the library.
Ah, didn't know that the sportsters were having an A - in that case, go figure that it has not worked!
I think that this uncertainty in the back of the WAS's mind is maybe what allows them to continue to hold on to us as a safety net. It's having the cake but saving it for later scenario!
My H said that, even if ow doesn't work out, he still won't be back. I don't know what to make of that really ... do I DB and wait and find out or do I take him at his word (against the 50/50 rule) and cut his safety net for him?
I'm fed up of him having the locus of control over everything but I think that he is enjoying the new feeling as he always said that it was me that was totally in control. If that were the case, why are we here??
Indeed. My H said that, even if ow doesn't work out, he still won't be back. I don't know what to make of that really ...
Nell, remember that just because H said that it doesn't really mean it's accurate. We've both been told that plenty of times before. I just thought of something to support that...my H has said a few things along the way:
* told me early on that ow was better than I've ever been,(later apologised and told me he said that cos it was the most hurtful thing he could think of at the time)
* told me how much he hated me and never wanted to see me again, (then had to apologise and tell me he didn't really hate me, he would always care for me. That didn't mean he didn't tell me hated me at some other stage yet again. He hates me so much he buys a house 5 mins drive from me, visits me in hospital, has dinner together, goes for walks with me, talks on the phone with me etc, etc)
* told me he was organising the divorce the next day (several times now...still waiting on that)
He would also say that in his attempt to stop you pressuring him. Reality is he probably doesn't know himself yet.
Reality is he probably doesn't know himself yet.
You reckon, Cas?? Well, that gives me renewed hope.
I have just been to the shower, manicured and trimmed all my lady bits ... taken away all that which should not be there and improved all the bits that should! That, this time, was for me and no-one else... and it feels good to look after myself a bit. Smelling of my favourite body wash and oils now, my mood is a little lighter.
I think that the WAS definitely has the same script - to within a word or two! I have heard much of what you said, above. Trouble is, my H has rented an hour away from me, so that's a big issue as I see things, right now.
Just wondering how I go about asking him to come and give the help around the place that he promised to do - maintainence and heavy stuff. I've managed this long but it is getting too much for me out in the garden and then I notice that I have let other stuff slide. I don't want to get in a rut and it's his responsibility too, which he did acknowledge, up until the fiasco that was last weekend! I shall stay away though and try to figure out how I broach it when he next contacts me.
Dia pointed out to me that distance isnt really a problem, if they want to come to you they will, bearing in mind my H had to drive three hours to get to me the other day, although it was on the pretext of babycakes being poorly he knew bc was in the vets so I know he came for me as well.
The only thing I can think of is that part of this MLC/WAS stuff is control issues, so if you threaten their control before they are ready to give some up you get "teenage boy" and "low flying teddies" I have my H twiddled around my finger some of the time but that sense of me pushing just a bit too much and Im gonna achieve a "runaway, teenage, teddy thrower" its horrid he is so near yet so far and the teeniest step wrong will send him packing again..
Use this time wisely Nell as Im sure that if you dont learn the techniques now they come back to bite you on the bum later, Im almost at ok Im making this work but the next bit is gonna be even scarier!
Anyway your time is up now the week is over, what did you find to do?
Hugs and Cuddles Rabbitx
i am very much struggling to find out how it is a person in a marriage can feel controlled.
This is something that eats me at my core.
My W says that i control her too much, but she has been doing everything she wants to do. I have never stopped her from doing anything she ever wanted to do, but still she claims i control her.
i am confused.
Undrdg - I have replied on your thread so that my answer does not get lost for you!
thanks nell. I appreciate your insight.
The controlling factor always seems to accompany the i have lost my identity in this marriage too.
I struggle with that concept, especially when my wife has always been true to who she is, in my opinion.
Hey Rabbit
I know what you are saying ... how can distance be a problem when H is travelling interstate to keep his a alive? He won't even push a button to speak to me at the moment!
I have just posted on undrdg's thread in regard control issues. I got up this morning feeling as flat as ... and yet my brain is working overtime in the Think Dept.! I didn't realise it before but H must be considering that he is now holding the controlling reigns as a 180 on me 'controlling' our lives in the past. I have not deliberately done so but we girls know how we have to get behind the men sometimes and push them along ... is that 'controllling'? If so, charge me, I am guilty.
I reckon there must be some low flying teddies around H's place this morning! He will have picked up my email and text by now (I figure) and he won't be happy that I am asking for this meeting. Thing is, I've worked out that, whilst I am now more than happy to pay my way whilst I am working, I'm not paying H's excess and he is not contributing enough ... we will be in a pickle mid-month if this is not sorted out. As he's going off on his business trip, I need to sort things and soon. I expect that this will be another step too far for him.
I have not forgotten my challenge Rabbit but I have not been very forthcoming in a solution for out and about GAL'ing. What I have decided instead (until I can achieve my goal) is to be productive at home and get my jewellery making going again. It will keep my hands from being idle and I can create some pieces that I can donate to a charity. I rather thought that I could give some to my C venue - I have not been paying for my C as they have assessed my work/home situation and let me off with my fees! As a 'pay back', I reckon that they could get something for my work - even if it is to sell the pieces amongst the staff and put the proceeds in to their coffers. I hope that will suffice until I can think of something else that's 'out there' to get involved with?!!
Hi Nell
Serious apologies for not being here purely because of lack of net at home, but I have been thinking of everyone here, wondering what has been happening and heavens above does a lot happen in a few days.
Have tried catching up on your thread, got a little bit lost but have an idea of what has been happening.
I am glad that you are going to get back into your jewellery making, I can dressmake but in the creative craft dept I am useless and I admire those that can create jewellery.
Now your email has gone off to H, try not to think about what he has thought upon reading it, that is part of the detaching side of things. You have responded, now you just go on with your life and GALing and when he replies then deal with it, but don't let the thoughts of his reaction at this point bother you.
LR is right, you have to learn the techniques or they do come and bite you on the bum, we have all gone through that. If your H is stubborn he will take just that bit longer to get through to and so you are going to have to show an exceptional amount of patience.
Hope work is going well for you Nell.
(((((((((Nell)))))))
Love the idea of making the jewellery for the C Nell I do so think that is GAL after all you will have to go shopping for bits to do it and it will keep you occupied as well. I am getting my mate to teach me to do Xmas cards as its always something I have wanted to do. Thanks for the lovely 2x4 I needed it. I think because it was delayed pull back I didnt see it coming quite so obviously although Im back on rabbit track now! x
Good to hear from you Oz ... yes, plenty happens in a few days, even though much never appears to change!
I'm not so talented with the jewellery - it's only something that I have picked up since I have been here. I do basic stuff but I've had lots of comments and even sold some pieces for charity a while back. Good to try it again!
I have had to email H again this arvo ... in fact about 6 times! I hadn't read all of the emails in regard rescheduling the tribunal and so commented on each one before forwarding to H. He will understand but I would rather have just sent one and been done with. Still no reply from him in regard the finance meeting that I really want to have with him. He's getting off scott free at the moment - another "not fair" from me!
I am working on the techniques, for all the good that it's going to do me. I have visions of him moving away at the moment and not even telling me. My paranoia is in full flow though I have felt a bit better in another way - it's all very bipolar!
So - don't know how I'm feeling today ... a bit ambivalent about everything I guess. I don't know if this is the beginning of true detachment or whether I am just too tired to care right now.
I have had an exhausting day at work and, listening to other people's 'problems' which can't even hold a light to your own, is so frustrating! There they are, weeping and wailing over nothing and I just want to scream, "d'ya wanna swap problems because I would HAPPILY take yours right now". Professionalism over-rules, thank goodness!
Got a really nice compliment from one of my colleagues today and felt so chuffed. I realised that was the first positive thing that someone has verbalised to me in about 6 months. I valued the message and validated her kindness for giving me such lovely feedback. It later became painful as I realised that it took a stranger to make me feel good about myself, instead of it being H, who's job I feel that it is. How sad is that?
Sent a text to H tonight to ask him to reply to my email re finances. No response. Decided to call him ... long connection time and phone tone tells me that he is interstate.
I am FURIOUS. I just want to tell him now that I am done and I want to finalise everything. Of course, it's not how I feel in my calm state but I am so damn mad. I'm on the verge of calling his parents to see if they can get through to him but of course I know that it's wrong to do so. I know that they would be as supportive as they could be but he's still their son so the bias would be more than evident.
I think that this is time for LRT and when he does get back, I will lay things on the line to him. Meanwhile, I am going to arrange a house evaluation at the weekend. I figure that he is hoping that I will get to this stage ... I don't want to do this stuff but I am FED RIGHT UP of him taking me for a fool and behaving this way toward me. Right now, yeah, I HATE YOU CREEP.
Nell, guess what? It's not H's job to make you feel good....it's your job! Don't give anyone the power to ruin your day and certainly don't rely on anyone else for your happiness!
You're angry and upset and fed up but there's a 'fighting spirit' in there. It's the beauty within, ready to live for you.
Nell, I've just read your posts to Rabbit and others along the way and I have to say that you are incredibly insightful and I think you are very generous with your time in replying to others in such a way. Many people on here, myself very much included, appreciate your wisdom.
Your homework Nell is to write down all your positive attributes and then to create your own mantra based on these attributes. Say the mantra as you wake, sleep, in the shower, in the car. Celebrate the beautiful person that you are. Love you and don't give H power to determine your day in any way.
And no, no, no don't contact H's family.
(((((Nell)))))
Just posted to you Nell and then found this on Kalni's thread...thanks to John and unknown author. Some similarities;
The No-“I have to have closure” Rule
Your “closure” is your responsibility. You get closure by doing your work, not by re-engaging and dredging up more stuff. You get closure by keeping yourself safe, being good to yourself and un-attaching from that which you have been attached.
The only closure you can hope for is the closure that comes from inside you. The person who hurt you cannot give you closure, nor should you want them to or expect them to or give them that kind of power. You need to move on from where you are for you.
Closure is part emotional work and part decision. At some point you need to turn the page and decide it’s over. Closure is your deal and yours alone. When you’ve done the grief work, worked through your inventories and made a decision to move on, that is closure. Closure happens for you and inside you. And only you. You get it from within, never from without.
Thank you for your lovely sentiments Cas. It's just always easier for me to help than be helped ... it's my nature - and my vocation in life. It's why I can't help myself and suffer so badly because of it. I help others, not the other way around, that's just the way it always has been for me to be me. That's why it's been so easy for H to walk away - he asked me to let him go if I loved him and so it was easier to bear my pain than to see his.
I fear that my fighting spirit has just given over to the dam bursting and over-flowing by the bucket full. Long overdue. I'm so glad that I see C tomorrow evening. I feel so empty here and crying alone ... I have tried to believe that I have new friends here but now that I need to talk to one of them, it's so easy to find a reason why I shouldn't call them ... and that's not friendship. The only one I would call is in work and excited about her citizenship ceremony tomorrow, so I shall just gather up the babies and do what I always do ... go to bed.
Tomorrow is another day, as Scarlett O'Hara once said.
So what do I do now? Bills are coming in again and I can't cover them all. Can't get H to answer any of my communications.
Seems like his dirty tricks campaign to flush me out of the house is working.
Just realised. H will be on his way home, catching the red eye tonight.
I can imagine that he will be intouch tomorrow or Wednesday. I just have to hold it together until then.
It's going to take all that I have for me to have a decent conversation with him next time. I feel the anger brewing like Vesuvius, already. Perhaps I just agree to a phone call or email exchange, rather than seeing him. I don't know that I want to right now.
If you don't know or are angry, don't act. Think on it. the 24 hour rule.
(((Nell)))
Cas - thanks for Kalni's quote. Makes sense but I cringe at the word closure right now. I think that must mean I am not really done or ready for such. It's like the D word - I can't bear to even read it and so am glad that it's referred to here as just a letter!
JCJ - good to have you pop in again. I am glad that I had the sense to walk away from the computer last night when I was allowing magma to fly from me! I'm also glad that I worked out some timings and figured that H was on his way back to Perth. I guess it's easy to figure out why I feel better that he is here and not interstate, even though he's not home with me!
Mostly, I am glad that I didn't spit venom toward his family. That would be bad. Very, very bad.
Hi Nell
Cas has already said what I was going to say that you can't rely and shouldn't rely on H for your happiness or your compliments. I learn't that and I learn't to accept compliments from strangers and friends, you must too Nell.
I am glad you chose to walk away from the computer and not send any more emails and no don't ring the in-laws, never a good move.
You have proved many times that you have a fighting spirit Nell so use that to your advantage to distance yourself from the negativity coming from your H and use it to empower yourself to love yourself. Remember you have to love and respect yourself first above everything.
((((((((Nell)))))))
Message from H this morning: "This week is rather hectic for me. Maybe the weekend. What do you want to discuss?"
The email must have been sent whilst he was at the airport. The time stamp fits in perfectly with his scheduled flight back. I kind of quite like that as it means that he was keen to get a response to me as soon as he was away from ow. If he was really aggro with me, surely he would have waited until he got back?? Perhaps I am just seeking for comfort in that and I know that I should be reading nothing in to this action. Just one dew drop helps when you have been in the desert for so long, eh?!
Is he DB'ing me?? Let's not forget that I asked him last time 'what do you want to discuss' - same technique!
Now, what do I answer. Is this my time to 'meet for coffee' - would be pushing it for anything more, I reckon. Do I change things completely around and say that I will go to him, rather than him come to the house?? I always feel that there's a bad vibe here after he exits in a storm. A new event is that this is the first time he has suggested a weekend meeting ... normally his weekends are sacrisanct - but only because of the tramp. Do we meet half way or at a 'location' ... can think of a nice park where it would be good to meet and have coffee 'picnic-style'. Mmmm, I'm liking that thought but don't know if he's ready for it yet.
Haven't had time to think much about this but my suggested reponse is:
"Sure, I understand. As in my email, I just need to explain some financial stuff/ask a few financial questions.
This weekend is good for me. Which day were you thinking and where would you like to meet? It would be nice for us to go somewhere which would be conducive to us having a positive conversation - any suggestions?
Is this a step too far, too quickly? I don't want to frighten him off. Also, if he came to the house, he may stay a bit longer and do some more jobs but I have reservations on him coming here this time. I was going to suggest a venue and bringing coffee but that sounds like pursuit, even to me!! Perhaps a beach café may be better and then just see what pans out ...
Thoughts please ... just remember that this is a big opportunity for me and they don't come around any too often so I need it to be GREAT, not just good!! No pressure then!
((((((((Nell)))))))
I responded to your post on my thread.
I hope it helps you somewhat.
If you need anything else, let me know. - PP
Only just coming to Nell, will try and read through later just wanted to say hi!
Went to see C tonight. She's worried about me. So much so that she has given me her email address (with her C hat off, as she told me)!
Said it was unusual to see no progress in someone after 7 sessions and feels that I am sliding backwards, constantly. No sh*t Sherlock! Finally some one is hearing my desperate screams ...
Glad to hear that C has finally realised how much you are struggling Nell! Im beginning to wonder too if it might be worth seeing someone as it seems H has pulled back into alien land big time now. Im sure we feel the same, the fact we have been dropped in the horse poo is bad enough but the fact that no-one other than us on here seems to give a horse poo either is really starting to drain me. Our H's seem to be living the life of riley while we are left to clear up the mess behind them! There really isnt enough explitives for how angry I am getting too, so maybe youre just a bit ahead in the process of this all, is it shock, followed by action, followed by anger, followed by revenge or is resignation first I just dont know.. huge hugs Im along side you hun!
Nothing yet Nell, Im going to put the whole lot in there just quickly for you to double check it!
Bingo mission accomplished!
Jumping to alternate burrow now ... closing down here for the night but catch you over in the other meadow for some carrots before bedtime??!!
Youre gonna have to change your name to Cryptic Cate at this rate lol!
Hi Nell
There is no problem meeting somewhere other than home but just make sure you don't add anything to make it sound like you are pursuing like bringing food or drinks like you are having a picnic. Either way, whether he comes to the house or you meet elsewhere you have to keep control of any anger you have toward him as that will kill it again. As much as you might want to scream at him and strangle him, you have to hold it back and remain calm.
Hi Nell,
Hope today was a better one for you!
Cas
Have a nice day at work will catch up with you later!
Hi Oz
You are going really well!! I bet you feel a million times better, don't you? I know that I would.
Just thinking that I will get to see H at the weekend has put a spring in my step and it was commented upon at work today. My concentration has been that much better and, as I was past his workplace today, it wasn't even that hard to drive by without thoughts of driving past there.
I shan't offer to bring picnic/coffee. I emailed him to choose where and when to meet and let me know. I'm still waiting but he will get to it! I kind of like the beach café so that we can have coffee and then walk, if it feels appropriate.
I spent some time with a friend from back hom last night - she is in the same boat as we are and we chatted 'live' for a while. She's much like you actually Rabbit! I went to bed happier for being able to be more myself than I guess I can be here, even though this is good.
I know that less is sometimes more but there are times when more is definitely necessary! We shared some stuff that neither of us were aware of before and I slept much better and awoke much calmer this morning. It was good to have some 'extra' attention!
I'm doing OK today and wish that I could have more days like this and less like I normally have.
Thanks Cas - much better today.
How have you been?
Good to hear you got a lot out of chatting to your friend last night, I am blessed with several very good friends and none of them think Im mad for wanting my H back or at least they have the good manners not to say so lol!
Hi Nell
I am glad you are feeling brighter in your mood today, being able to vent to another such as you have can do you the world of good.
I am sending you heaps of hugs and good wishes Nell that this coming weekend goes smoothly for you and with some positive outcomes.
You are right, I am doing well and feel so much better, but I am not so naive as to become complacent, I have no intention of letting things slip again.
Hello folks!
Thanks for dropping in Oz and Cas.
Not so happy this evening. H has emailed, supposedly to make plans for when and where to meet at the weekend and all he is demanding is what EXACTLY I want to discuss about the finances as he wants to be prepared.
I replied that I merely wanted to point some things out to him - nothing to prepare for. Last time we met to discuss finances, I had everything prepared - spreadsheets, the works and he wouldn't even look at it. Suddenly he's become very conscientious about this stuff ... go figure!
I told him that if he didn't want to meet, then fine and where would he like me to have his mail sent. I'm getting SO fed up of all this game playing.
I think that it's about time for a very serious letter from me to H.
Think teddy throwing man is just lobbing his teddies again! I do wonder if he is just panicking about what you have instore for him as you did lose it last time and he doesnt want to be in that situation again. Personally I would have given him a few items as appeasement and left it so he couldnt wiggle out of seeing you! Well just wait and see now perhaps the Im done with you mail part will rattle something!
I'm with you Rabbit .. understand that he is probably rattled a bit.
Just responded to his negative email - was polite but business-like and maybe just a tad mysterious. I'm giving up slowly but thought it still worth a try!
I told him that if he didn't want to meet, then fine and where would he like me to have his mail sent. I'm getting SO fed up of all this game playing.
I'm not sure I understand the mail comment. Are you telling him that if he doesn't want to meet with you in person that you will have his mail sent elsewhere?
I think that it's about time for a very serious letter from me to H.
What would be the objective of that letter?
Just responded to his negative email - was polite but business-like and maybe just a tad mysterious.
I think the suggestion to be mysterious is about your
personal life, not financial matters of joint concern.
Hi Dudess
Thanks for your feedback.
My comments are a bit out of whack, reading them back! I was angry and tired last night. Basically, I said to him that if he didn't want to meet in person that was fine. I offered to speak with him by phone. I know that he is expecting a letter that is here and, as he has more mail too and has not collected any of it, I was simply offering to forward it to him. It was not a punitive statement!
The objective of the letter would be to outline where I am sitting in all of this. I am in limbo land whilst he is in bimbo land and I have been left high and dry with no resources, no warning and now facing the reality and burden of sailing the ocean that we chose together, whilst he has abandoned ship.
I can't go on living this way and he has to stop treating me like the enemy - I have done nothing to warrant it and I feel that, if he wants a new life, he should deal with the old one first. He's just basically walked away - but will be holding his hand out the minute - if and when the house is sold.
I was being mysterious about me, not the finances Dudess!! I was business-like about everything and then added that I needed him to make a decision on our meeting or not as I too had things to organise over the weekend!
Nell,
Just popped over to your thread to say thanks for updating me on Oz's sitch. I haven't had a chance to familiarize myself with your sitch yet, but have seen your very wise comments all over the board. You even have secret messages in your posts sometimes, don't you?
Best,
GAG
Hi GAG! Ha, I've been busted!! Yeah, just Rabbit and I 'bonding', I guess!
Thanks for your kind feedback about my comments on the board - when I am calm and feeling strong, I can help others. Mostly I am a blethering wreck and need the help myself ... like this evening.
Mid-morning, H sent me a text to say that he was arranging the house valuers to come out week after next and wants to know when I will be at home for this to occur. Wrong - if he wants them here, he takes care of it. I am not helping him to achieve this goal. I can't stop him but I don't have to help. His timing was perfect ... all engineered to upset my day. Text ignored, by the way.
Then I come home from work to an email ... he 'proposes' to be here at Sunday lunch time to remove more furniture and personal belongings from the home. Says that he can do it when I am out, if I would prefer. Evidently he overlooked the part where we are supposed to be discussing finances but he's evidently being driven by yet another alien force to make him step up the negative action.
The rate he is going, he will have me out of here because I'm sure that his next move will be that if I refuse to sell, he will refuse to pay his half of the mortgage. He's just going to keep upping the ante until he has bled me dry and there's only my bones left to pick over ... I have ignored this email too and will be so busy tomorrow that I don't possibly have time to even consider it.
If he turns up on Sunday, then so be it ... if not, so be that too.
I wouldn't ignore the email/ text Nell, it'll just inflame the situation. It is also kind of passive aggressive.
I would just drop him a quick line saying something like.
'Hi
Got your messages, thanks. I will most likely be out on Sunday but the house will be free for you to come round then. I will be working all of next week so it is probably best if you are here to meet with the valuers and let me know the outcome. I am happy for you to handle all this side of things.
With regards to our meeting about finances I would like to discuss (then list them). I could probably meet Wednesday evening of next week at the coffee shop (or wherever and when ever you are free to meet).
Nell'
I would suggest that you probably be out when he comes to collect his stuff as it will be hard for you to see it all happening and not react. Just my opinion.
Thanks JCJ - that is good advice.
I really do need to see him to discuss the finances and if I am not here on Sunday, I know that he will not make time for me for at least another 3 weeks - that appears to be his pattern over the past few months. I want to remain calm - and this time I think that I can ... I have been practising!
I shall not be here for the valuers - that's a certainty!
How are you getting along?
Oh hun not what you wanted to hear at all.
First off if he wants to end this for once and for all you need to start protecting yourself.
a) Tell him that you will have the house valued in your good time, and you will not be letting any valuers onto the property and certainly enabling him to do so either!
b) Tell him he can remove personal effects from the house but he is not using what you have purchased together as a couple to set up any home for bimbo!
c) You said before you are better to start proceedings from an English point of view rather than Australian, would that scare the crap out of him if you got an English lawyer on board, if so do so!
d Ignore his email he doesn’t warrant a response, you are not to enable his bad behaviour in any way shape or form.
On a more personal note, don’t lose it with him, if he is so alienated that he is going down this route whole heartedly having a go might make you feel better but just prove to him he is all the right to do so!
Thanks Rabbit ... oh, I just don't know what to do. I am in a whirl right now.
Think that I shall hop on over to have a cuppa with the neighbour and see what a good night's sleep tells me, tomorrow.
I'm fast running out of steam ... this is a a hiding to hell and I don't think that any amount of DB'ing is going to fix this. I just wonder if I haven't been wasting my time for all these months by playing DB games .... does this work?
For the very few I would say yes. For the rest of us, we appear to be doomed before we even start. Sorry folks, but that's just how I see it.
No, it isn't a waste of time at all. Michele herself says that not all WAS come home. If you DB consistantly, especially by using the 'doing something different' technique and by getting your emotions under control then you stand a much better chance of reconciling with your spouse than if you carry on doing what was driving your spouse away. And if you employ all the GAL advice etc then whether or not you reconcile you are in a much healthier place. The key word is consistancy.
Out of all the people that have posted to me I know of 6 last summer alone that have reconciled. Two of them have never come aback and posted that they have.
Whether you view yourself as doomed before you start is I guess up to you. Sounds a bit like victim talk to me. But I truly could not have lived with myself if I hadn't tried everything possible to save my marriage and DB gave me the tools with which to do that.
Just my thoughts.
I hear you loud and clear JCJ but isn't there a time when people can't do this any more and, despite all efforts, are 'forced' to give up. You can't keep on knocking your head against a wall when nothing works? It's just where I'm at and H is holding all the cards - he knows it, I know it. He's done and I am getting nowhere despite everything.
I am REALLY going to try this again on Sunday and see what progress (if any) I can make but I think it's gone too far now. I'm exhausted .... and yes, I do feel like a victim because I am a victim ... of his cruel and selfish behaviour.
I was a wife - I had a good life - he took it away from me in one fell swoop and I had no say in the matter.
Nell,
How are you feeling today? The issues you're facing are not easy. Please be kind to yourself.....pamper yourself a bit. I know it is difficult to think about doing the things that Julia suggests. When my DB coach suggested those same things I thought to myself "How can I do that? That is counter to every (survival) instinct I have." But I DID do those things and I think that they led to the best possible outcome that I could have had from the "hand I was dealt". Friends and family who questioned this approach continue to be amazed at how much this approach and the friendship that was cultivated between H and myself helped in the negotiations I had with my H. Within the first few days after the bomb my closest family and friends were advising me to put all of H's belongings out on the curb. But I didn't take that advice. I chose the DB route. Jody (DB coach) told me that if I cooperated with H it would SUPERCHARGE the 180s. This didn't mean that I cooperated fully with H. I just let him take the lead and do the legwork himself.
One year later, after a lot of prayers, karma, and H's generosity, this is where my sitch led me (sorry, long post, but I hope there is something in here that will be useful to you or someone else):
1) 2 months after the bomb H wanted to have our home appraised so that he could enforce the terms of our prenup. Our home had lost ~15-20% of its value because of the recession. It was clear that H was trying to take the house from me because he made more money than me and I didn't have any prospects for making more income, so wouldn't be able to buy the home myself.
2) 1 month later out of the blue (divine intervention I believe) I was offered a full-time job that gave me ~70% more income (more than H) and allowed me to work 25 hr/week less. I could now qualify to buy our home myself!
3) H filed for D 1 month later, 4 months post-bomb (he didn't know that I was considering a job change. I had been advised by attorney to keep this quiet). H began to withhold part of his share of the mortgage and household expenses.
4) 2 weeks later I told H about job offer and that I would work ~25 hr/week less than before (H said he left because I worked too much). His attitude toward me noticeably softened. When I took the new job, H actually spent ~4 hours helping me move out of my old office.
5) Our first and only court date was 1 month later (5 months post-bomb). My lawyer notified H and his attorney that I had first option to buy our home because H had violated our prenup by withholding financial support for our home.
H was shocked. He and his attorney had missed this point in a document attached to the pre-nup. I had done my homework (WORDS OF WISDOM: read everything Nell. Don't trust your attorney to do this for you. He/she will have a lot of clients. You need to know everything about your case and ask your attorney appropriate questions. THEN.....let your attorney be the the BAD guy/gal. That way your H can't be directly upset with you. He will blame it on the attorney. In my case, H became very irritated with HIS attorney after this point. I was annoyed with my attorney too. H and I began to bond over our mutual disdain for our attorneys, so even THAT situation was used as a bonding experience for us.
6) I got a second appraisal for our home. The value of our home had dropped even further. I negotiated a sales price for our home that was even lower than the first appraisal. Five months after the 1st appraisal I was able to turn this situation around to my advantage. H ended up buying a home in a less desirable neighborhood. He now complains that he spent too much for it.
God, the universe, and I had really turned the tables on H. I took every opportunity I had (there haven't been a lot) to show H's friends and colleagues how happy I was that I had changed jobs. Told them "H was right. I really DID work too much. I am much happier now". I left it to his friends/colleagues to draw their own conclusions about why H was doing what he is doing.
7) Over the next 2 months H and I negotiated the terms of our D decree. I made him initiate all meetings. We always talked at our home (where I was living). I DB'ed my ar$e off. I baked fresh olive loaf, served wine, had cinnamon candles burning, and had a fire in the fireplace. The house looked immaculate and I looked great! These meetings gave me the only opportunity I've had to date to see some of H's sadness. He actually admitted that we really HAD had some wonderful times together. These sessions led us into firm friendship territory by 9 months post-bomb.
8) We have been in friendship territory for the past 4 months even though he had a 2 month relationship with a woman during that time. I'm sure she didn't know that he was exchanging a lot of e-mails with me and spending evenings at the house with me from time to time, exchanging warm hugs and chaste kisses during that period.
9) Even though H and I haven't reconciled, over the past year we made many more very nice memories together. We shared laughs and continue to have a warm bond. I prefer this to the feeling of loss (like a death) that I would have if H and I were enemies. That is what I think would have happened if I had been oppositional and not used DB techniques. As they say, "Forgiveness is a gift you give yourself".
Nell, sorry this has been so long. Just wanted to provide an example of how this can play out and give you MORE than you might get from taking an oppositional stance.
GAG
Thank you GAG - that is a wonderful post and much of it gives me hope ... I just have one question (and I'm sure that many others reading this would ask the same). How, when there is an ow involved, can you WANT to be friends with WAH and even if there is no ow, him not wanting you is so hurtful that I just can't see past that ... ?? If my WAH can be so hurtful and deliberately cruel, how can I want to be in a friendship with him? He has wrecked my life ... he knew all that was important to me and has turned it upside down because of what HE wants in life. I can't be his friend when he has an ow and is living a life which he keeps totally secret from me. I just can't do it.
This has got me to thinking ...
I am gathering some strength lately and I feel that it's because I don't spend quite so much time hanging here. I've had a lot on this week with one thing and another so maybe that's done me some good. Maybe my C telling me that I am not progressing, as fast as expected, has also shaken me up a bit.
I'm still scared but I have started to acknowledge the failings of H and acknowledge that he's not deserving of the pedestal I have had him on. I also consider that he's not in MLC but just has narcissistic tendencies, if not an all out narcissistic personality. It's empowering to finally see that in him and start to shake off my funk and stop living in the fog. I think that I may be moving in to the 'next stage' of grieving and that means starting to think about me more and H less. I'm frightened that this inner calm will dissolve and I will be back to square one again.
I know that I am isolated and have few if any friends here but it should not stop me from being me. I am determined next week to prove that to myself and start living again, whatever it is that I can do to achieve that.
Nell, for me it's all about balance. I find that I need to plan my days with tasks so that I can check in here at some stage but not keep hanging here because I have nothing else on. So like today, I'm having a break from my garage sorting and I'll be back at it soon! I'll probably check in after dinner but my goal is to get to bed early.
I agree Cas - it's OK to be here but not all the time. The day has to be filled with other things or you never can get your life back on track.
Well today, my life saw some MAJOR baby steps!! I'm pretty happy with my DB'ing today and H appeared to see it too, when he visited earlier - and stayed longer than he has since he left home.
I can't say any one thing that happened to make me feel so positive but overall, I am happier! In a nutshell:
1) H cleaned and maintained the pool and spa
2) Sat with me on our outdoor furniture and shared tea and biccies
3) H started some R talk, even though it was only to affirm that he does not love me and there is no going back
4) He fed and played with the cats
5) Told me that I had done a good job looking after the lawns and gardens
6) Sat and discussed finances without too much arguing - agreed that he should be paying a little more and he would look in to it
7) Didn't get too mad but was firm and didn't hide his annoyance that his Wii was not here, which was one of the things which he wanted to collect today
9) Agreed to come back and help me with the front garden beds - including taking me to get some sheep manure!
10) Agreed to work on our communication in the future - says that we still have a long way to go and it would be easier if we could communicate better without having to involve a mediator
11) Cracked a joke when I almost fell in the pool and ask what he would do if I had ... he replied "would wait for you to float to the shallow end first [before doing anything]"!
12) H acknowledged that it will be four years this Tuesday that we emigrated - I hadn't even noticed that.
So, overall, not too bad. I remained calm, took several 'take a deep breath' breaks to the bathroom and didn't once raise my voice! I DB'ed where and when I could ... as much as I was able. When I felt that things were slipping a bit, I even managed to bring them around ... H appeared more relaxed and talked more about things that were currently concerning him ... he is stressed about work but mostly about our situation, even though he repeated that he does not love me and there is no going back.
That bit hurt but there were so many positives in today that have just not been there previously. I will probably come crashing down now but I can honestly say that my 5 hours with H today were the best I have had in as many months!!!!
Oh - and though I acknowledge that I should have held off until at least tomorrow or Tuesday, I sent H an email this evening.
H is going on a business trip on Tuesday and he doesn't often check his email much nowadays, so he tells me, so I wanted to acknowledge some things before he went:
1) Thanking him for his assistance today
2) For being reasonable with the financial talks
3) For agreeing to work on our communication strategy
4) That I am looking forward to his help with the house next time around
5) Wishing him a pleasant business trip and I hope that he manages a few beers to help things along!
Nell,
Glad you had a positive interaction with your H! Over the course of 5 hours you had a lot of opportunity to show him the new and improved Nell. Keep showing him this and he won't be able to help but compare you to the OW. In your sitch I don't know how long the OW has been in the picture, but in my experience infatuation begins to fade within 6 months. You know your H and you know best how to do the things he likes. Plus, if I recall correctly you immigrated from the UK, is that correct? I'm guessing OW doesn't have that background. You are in a unique position in that you can appeal to the aspects of both UK and Aussie traditions that H likes.
Regarding your question about having OW or OM in a sitch. I am lucky in a way that my H didn't leave for an OW. But spouses leave, whether its for an OW/OM or some other reason, because they are not having their needs met in a M. As LBSs we hold some culpability in that and need to face what we did --- if not for the current M, then for a future relationship.
The problem with our walk-aways is that many of us felt our spouses didn't communicate the degree of their unhappiness to us. If we had known HOW unhappy they were we would have tried to change. So there is culpability on our spouse's part too. Ultimately, both partners need to move toward the middle ground if reconciliation is going to occur. A book I read stated "Would you rather be right, or be married?" Obviously, those communication issues will need to be worked out if the M is to succeed, but in the early stages we are all just working for the opportunity to get to that phase. So in the interim, "Fake it 'til you make it" is a mantra that has gotten many people to the point of having these discussions with their spouses. In time we realize that these changes are for US and will make us happier regardless of what decision our spouse makes.
GAG
Congratulations on handling the visit so well, Nell. I'm sure it wasn't easy but you did it.
I think you blew it with the follow up email though. Presumably you thanked him for his assistance when he was there. It is not necessary to go on and on about it.
I think he feels the need to keep telling you "I don't love you and it is over" because he can feel your pursuit. That email was pursuit. It seems that every time you make a little progress, you don't continue with what worked and revert back to what didn't work. It can't make you look very desireable in his eyes to have the woman he rejected for another falling all over herself to thank him repeatedly for helping maintain the house.
Well done hun, big step forward keeping your cool, sorta agree with Dudess on the email, but hopefully he will be so shocked you were nice and calm and not "ratty nell" he wont notice, like I said to you dont worry too much about the little things just keep doing the big things!
Thanks GAG ... yes, it was a good visit and got me a good nights sleep last night. Of course, waking this morning was peaceful until I realised, yet again, that H was not here and the bowling ball to the belly was back on line!
Most people's WAS has left for an ow/om but mine did not. He stuck to our pre-M promise of ending things before considering an ow - such was our belief on infidelity, which interestingly, we were both adamant about. It's why he still doesn't consider that he is having an A - in his eyes our M is through and he is free to do what he likes ...
Even though I have called him on this time and time again, I DO believe that he did nothing before he called time on our M. He simply could not have ... ow is 2.5hrs flight away and H was still living here! What I do think is that he was becoming infatuated, so more likely EA but he denies that. I have watched his body language and his facial expression - I would know if he were lying and yet I really don't believe that he is.
All of this, in my view, makes it harder as those who leave for ow under different circumstances I mostly consider are just having a 'fling' and will at some time return. This is different. H was done before he left ... I don't think that there's any going back now - he is a deep thinker and he has made up his mind. Sadly, there will be no turning his ship around - saving a miracle.
Thanks for dropping back, Dudess!
I didn't find the visit too hard to deal with ... I was enjoying myself and H appeared to be reasonably relaxed ...
I was riding high but now I feel that I have been pulled back in to line, which is probably a good thing. I regret having sent the email, after reading your words but was doing it to affirm his actions of the day - that's one of his LL's.
I get so confused with this DB ... no wonder I'm not very successful! Do it, don't do it ... do it now, hold off !!!!!
The biggest thing that I learned yesterday was the Cheeseless Tunnel - he TOLD me what it was and now I have to think of a strategy to get around that.
I agree that he probably keeps affirming that he does not love me as he feels that I still hold out hope. Pursuit. I have to stop that but it's so difficult. When he's here, I feel like I have to get everything that I can across to him for I don't know when - or if - he will be back again. It's panic that makes me behave that way.
No, I didn't thank him when he was here so I don't feel guilty of of that one!! I guess that I realised that I had not thanked him at all after he left and that was another motivator for my email.
Now, I must go quiet again. NC until he does - even though I'm sure that this is pull back time as he will have definitely felt that yesterday was an improvement on recent times too.
Thanks too Rabbit ... will meet you in the burrow!
Hi Nell
Good news that you had a positive experience with your H over the weekend. Yes, you are right, trying not to push or get everything across at once is downright difficult but that is where you have to develop self control to hold stuff back.
Use this positive experience Nell to build your self esteem and to confirm that you are a new woman, in control of your emotions and your own self and your destiny. You are now becoming the new Nell not the old Nell that your H knew.
Depending on what you want to do in the future with regards your M Nell, all this is helping you become a stronger person Nell able to move into the future with confidence with or without your H.
Oh and yes, I think we all put our H's on a pedestal for a long time and then suddenly realise that they aren't perfect and need to earn our respect for a change.
Plenty here for you to digest tonight Nell. Glad to read that you are feeling a little more upbeat.
Cas
Thanks ladies! I do feel better this past few days.
I have gone over yesterday 1,000 times in my mind and have analysed from small to large events - I guess that I'm looking for stuff and second guessing, which I know is wrong. However, it makes me feel better - for ME.
I did note that H was not exuding happiness and he now has physical symptoms which he is going to see a GP about. I gave him my diagnosis and he agreed - he is stressed. I asked him why he thought that was - I was sure that he now had all that he wanted ... he guffawed and said "yeah right - what do you THINK I am stressed about?" Five months down the track, is that good or bad?
He really distressed me with one comment that he made "if I hadn't left, I would have commited suicide" ... I thanked him for making me feel so good about myself - that he would say that to me - that I could make anyone feel that way. It broke my heart - I have no idea of even WHY he has actually left, never mind that he felt this bad. The more I look for an answer to this question, the more he tells me it's a 'cheesless tunnel' (not that he knows that term).
He then went on to say that it was my fault that he had to leave as I was so verbally abusive after the bomb was dropped - ha! go figure. Yes, too right I was - shall we call it anger, hysteria, disbelief, retaliation?? Anyhow, his comment about the suicide has quite literally tipped me upside down as I would NEVER EVER have even thought of that entering my H's head - he's far too sensible, level headed and even egotistical to think such a thing. I can only view this as him trying to punish me even more for what has happened :o(
Despite this, H made a few faux pas which I'm not sure that he even realised. He showed jealousy in one remark that I made about having someone over for dinner. I asked if he would take some meat out of the freezer back with him and he agreed, though looked perplexed, with me being a veggie. When I explained that there were two meat options for dinner and my guest had chosen the other, he refused to take it!! I chuckled about that and can still get a grin from it!! I just wonder what he thought and who he thought my dinner guest was?!! That was certainly short, blunt and mysterious working at it's best - his face was priceless!!
I watched with interest and amusement each time he slipped back into almost being H - and seemingly 'enjoying' it ... yet the pullbacks were immediate as he realised what he was doing.
H goes on his business trip tomorrow so I shan't hear a thing now. I shall remain nc as long as I can ... certainly until next week at the earliest and review the situation then. I know that going dark does not work for either of us.
People at work have commented today how happy I look as we start the new week (they know nothing of our S) and must think that I am normally a right miserable person!! Makes me chuckle but flip the coin and it makes me sick that it is purely crumbs from H that can put a smile back on my face and a spring in my heart.
What is it with the WAS that they dont want us but dont want anyone else to have us either! Nothing wrong with a bit of analysing as long as you dont get to hung up on it, and if seeing their faux pas, and struggling to keep their fascade up gives you a giggle then why not, seems a bit sweet revenge known again knowing its not all roses for them.
I do think his comment about if he had stayed he would have committed suicide is unfair, he has put all the onus on you to make him happy and not himself, if that comment comes up again, dont take credit for his life. What I mean is you were quick to say, how very kind of you to make me feel bad, next time short sentance of "Im not responsible for what you have allowed your life to become" same as I said to my H "Im not clearing up your rubble, you built the wall either do the maintenance or clear up after its fallen down"
Sit back and wait now hun, dont get over enthausiatic hes got a long way to go before you see anything more, indulge in me time as much as you can and enjoy it, I know I have got a bit too caught up in H's is coming every thing must be perfect, but it cant be something you cant keep up for ever otherwise you will be back to square one again!
See you in the burrow later maybe!
Morning Nell
Ignore the comment your H made about suicide, a) he most likely won't even remember having said that to you now and b) he was just trying to shift blame to make himself feel better. It has absolutely nothing to do with you and you must remember that.
Your H will no doubt be realising that his life is now not what he thought it would be away from you, they all do that, you know grass is greener, but find out it isn't because they don't get it that it is no one or anything that makes them unhappy, it is themselves and only themselves. That is why you can't think about your conversation with him too much, don't own any of his insecurities or issues.
Hope you have a good day at work. Thinking of you Nell
GFO,
Thank you for that reminder.
Oz,
Hello. Hope you are having a good day. I'm learning from reading your thread.
GAG
He really distressed me with one comment that he made "if I hadn't left, I would have commited suicide" ... I thanked him for making me feel so good about myself - that he would say that to me - that I could make anyone feel that way. It broke my heart - I have no idea of even WHY he has actually left, never mind that he felt this bad.
It may well be that this is post hoc justification for actions which he feels guilty about. I wonder though, if you might consider viewing his statement as not about
you, that you could make anyone feel that way, but as about
him - about the depth of his pain and/or depression.
He may not have said that to make you feel bad about yourself or to blame you, but to try to convey to you that he did not make the decision to leave lightly.
I wonder what would happen if you simply validated that "you must have been in a great deal of pain." I don't know, but it could be that he would begin to talk a bit about it. (Or he may just be a butthead. Hard to say)
Hey Nell
My h can't remember anything of the hurtful things he said post bomb and when I questioned over a year later and quoted the most hurtful thing back he said it was untrue and he had no idea why he said it. However, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't take a look at your actions. It really helps with your 180s.
Sounds like you did good (((Nell)))
Thanks for your comments ladies. I discussed this with C last evening and she felt that it was probably not so - just more of the need to punish me and articulated as strongly as words could muster.
Thinking about it, H was talking a few months back (pre-bomb) about taking a course in assertiveness. Looking back on his actions, I wonder if his keen desire to achieve has assisted him to attain his goals and why his leaving was apparently done so very quickly ... I don't know how or why he was able to act so swiftly - I always struggled to get him to make important decisions and yet on this, he acted by himself and very, very fast. I also wonder if he did the course - though he never mentioned it, I'm pretty sure it would have been an on-line thing.
I'm also sure that he must have been in a lot of pain, though I can not understand why and I still can't get him to tell me. Evidently the carrot on the stick was the bigger pull but it does nothing for my forward progression or healing my head and heart. How can I resolve this issue in my own mind if I can't get him to verbalise what went wrong for him/us?? It's so frustrating.
I do believe that it's true in that they don't remember stuff that they have said. I have related things to H that he now denies - and then makes out like I have gone off!
I got an email from his folks last evening which I felt that I had to respond to today. I kept it short and sweet, injected no humour as I normally would, but purely answered the most of their questions, other than what was I doing with myself. I feel that it was a 'duty' email from them which they just added some 'love' for good measure as I had emailed them congrats on their anniversary.
A few months back, after I had responded to the in-laws email, H's sister got really upset and told me not to contact the in-laws again as it upset them too much. A big argument ensued and the result was that H backed my corner against his sister - which was really comforting at the time. Therefore, I copied H to my response to them this evening, so that there can be no 'he said, she said' and H knows exactly what I have said to his parents. H knew that they were probably going to email me as he mentioned it on Sunday.
H has no qualms about me being in touch with them and, of course, I deliberately steered away from mentioning H at all, other than to mention that he had been here on Sunday.
Very tired as we are now on hump day. The weekend can't come soon enough, surprised though I am to say it. I'm feeling emotional again today and have been fighting off the tears for much of the day. I'm out tonight helping a neighbour with some tax affairs and certainly am looking forward to my bed when I get home.
I find myself talking to myself in the car now and begging the Universe to send H home to love me again. I feel like I'm losing the plot sometimes.
Not a bad day today. Started off with not one but TWO emails from H - OK, so only two paragraphs but they were upbeat and one of them was almost funny!! He said that he would respond to my previous emails when he gets back as his wifi connection was poor at the hotel.
I was so concerned as to whether or not he was getting back at the weekend and, after having sent something to his work email address, his out of office confirmed that he will be back on Monday so I am now cock-a-hoop knowing that he will not be staying interstate at the weekend! Don't ask me why it makes a difference to me, it just does. I know that it does not change our sitch.
Learned last evening from someone who had seen H with ow, that she has a very bad habit - H can not tolerate it and yet to learn that ow partakes, makes me wonder how long before that is doomed!! It all helps!
Still wondering if H is going through with getting the house valued next week whether I am here or not. Will be setting some traps to see if he has been here in my absence! I can't stop him and he can't force me to sell, so this doesn't mean anything much other than getting an idea of where we currently sit in the marketplace.
Finally got paid today and very nice it was too! I would normally be looking to go and blow the lot but sense has prevailed and I am budgeting well. I have to put some away for savings and future bills but if enough left over, I want to get some furnishings to make me feel better in the house.
So, pretty positive. I'm now off to research for a local Tai Chi class, which I have decided, shall be my new GAL activity!!
Looks like the weekend is set to be pretty warm (33 degrees Poms!!) and so that may put pay to my gardening activities. Instead I may have to open up the pool and think about it ... the water is just 25 at the minute so maybe not quite yet!!
Nice contact from H!! You sound a little more upbeat Nell. Good job!
Thanks Nell, I have has just put a polo neck on and turned the heating on its freezing and drizzly today Im so envious! You do sound more upbeat, look forward to the first Tai Chi report.
Thanks Cas - yes, I was surprised that H had responded. Told myself that he was busy in Sydney and would probably not hear from him until next week as I know he's really under the pump on this new induction course.
I validated his efforts in respect his work and showed much interest - a big 180 from me as far as he will be concerned! I'm wondering if, even though he had limited time, our successful weekend meeting and now me being a bit more positive toward him has helped in him responding so soon. I asked that we work on our communication and, although it's not much, it's certainly an improvement, as you all know! Baby steps.
Hoping to hear from him on the weekend but won't hold my breath and certainly have some things lined up for myself to be involved with, if not.
Is this me getting stronger or the influence of multivitamins which are boosting my ever decreasing diet?!!
Hey Rabbit - don't knock it ... the autumn was always my favourite season back home. Now that I have a foot in both lands and can hop back and forth at my leisure, I still like the autumn here too ... it's not hot but just comfortably warm - like a summers day in the UK.
Don't be envious - just say the word and throw yourself down the Rabbit hole towards the Big Red Country!
However, I am waiting for my bubble to burst again as I feel that I might be riding too high just now. I was even listening to the radio in the car today and I haven't done that since pre-bomb. The bubble bursting may come next week if H goes through with the threat of the valuers coming in.
I also spoke with a very nice Doctor on the phone today - he has called me twice now (purely business) but he sounds mmm, mmmm ..... !! I am visiting with him next week for a case conference! Bet he's ugly, attached and anything but the yum yum he sounds on the blower!! It just lifted my spirits to be confident and breezy during our conversation and when I got off the phone I felt really good about myself. Gave me a lift that I haven't felt in a long while. Even stopped me thinking about H for 15 minutes of the hour long car drive I then had ahead of me!!
Is this the start of my detachment ... ??
Hi Nell, you sound good, has getting back to work helped?
Started off with not one but TWO emails from H - OK, so only two paragraphs but they were upbeat and one of them was almost funny!! He said that he would respond to my previous emails when he gets back as his wifi connection was poor at the hotel.
Wow. That
is progress Nell. Excellent.
Is this me getting stronger or the influence of multivitamins which are boosting my ever decreasing diet?!!
I think you are certainly getting stronger. Look how well you did when H last visited.
Maybe I should start taking some vitamins too.
Hi JCJ
Yes, getting back to work has certainly helped and the good news is that I was told today the job may become permanent!! The person on maternity leave has called to request part time hours but it looks like they won't accommodate her. Seems then that they are lining me up and that would be the answer to one of two major prayers that I have at this time!
Three guesses what the other one is?!!
Glad that you popped by Dudess - yes, it is an improvement but I instinctively know that he will draw back again now. I have sent him some nice emails during the week - he has asked for copies of all the bills so, as they are coming in for the month/quarter, I have taken the opportunity to add some 'happy' remarks to send with them.
It seems to have worked but what's in store next, who knows? Just look what my horoscope had to say today:
"You are trying to maintain a sense of equilibrium, but the complexity of your home life could spill over into the larger picture. Your immediate reaction to a personal issue might be so strong that you should think twice about what you're going to do before letting an adrenaline rush determine your future. If you have any doubts at all, sit with your answer a while and then let it go".
It's so me ....... !!!
Nell, who needs three guesses?
Great news about the job Nell! Wonderful!
Hi there Nell,
Just caught up on your sitch over the past two weeks.....
You did very well on Sunday with H, Kudos!!!!
I want to add that when my H left he was as depressed as I was. We had done it to each other. Our, then current, situation was depressing the he!! out of us both. I would not have called my H suicidal nor myself, but we were both so deep in the well we could not believe there would be daylight ever again.
My H told me he had to leave. I think he was afraid of the consequences if he had stayed. I do believe he left for another woman because he had a place to go. Men don't leave without a place to go. I think you have to realize the possibility that H left for OW. It is possible, even if you don't think so.
Your attention to H is very crucial right now. Use your knowing him as a tool. One way to create friendship is to engage him in his interests and work. I say it's ok to talk to him even if the convo is only about him. Keep it that way until you have re-gained his attention and his comfort level with you returns.
Eventually he will greet you and want to know how you have been getting along and how work is and how this and that is....it will take time and it will happen. You have to allow H the time to trust you again. Your encounters have to become simple and safe and genuine before he reaches to you.
Every new encounter with him will go well if you maintain that same behavior you had last Sunday. Keep analyzing that day, it's ok. Keep the positives front and center in your memory and at the next visit bring it all back. You made H comfortable, look how long he stayed. You also got him to talk. VERY GOOD!!!! I know it was not all positives. It certainly wasn't bad. All our H's have done the same. When they want to talk, you talk. Validate their feelings. Come across as warm, concerned, forgiving and understanding. This is what he needs right now. Good communication will be the key to any success you have with your H. I think you sending him the email to thank him was fine. You gave him a boost. You validated his behavior at the same time and trust me.....he is looking for positive validation for all his moves right now. I looked at as simple kindness for his presence and assistance. If you leave it as one email it is thanks any more will look like persueing.
Leave him to ponder the day (trust me he will and is). You have had a good week. This is baby steps. Have no expectations for more. It's when you least expect it H will come out of the woodwork and make contact.
Another bonus is H did not force the house valuation and have a gritty financial talk. I didn't hear you mention he took stuff with him either. All VERY GOOD!!!!!
Go back to NC and leave him be....
You are doing just fine. Keep in mind this sitch is young. I know the he!! you are in, boy do I. This is all stuff we have seen and lived and I expected the same in your sitch. You have to remember your goal is to bring him back to the marriage. With that in mind, behave in a manner with your every being that will bring that about. It's not an option. It's crucial to reconcile this marriage. You know what it feels like to have a good visit. Make them all good....the results will be surprising for both of you. I say this from experience.
Nell, I can't post much anymore. I will pop in from time to time and play catch up. My mind is busing in accepting "what is.....is". I am tired. I do not mean to back out on you. I don't feel good posting about me in the current state, I know you can understand. I do want to help you all and chime in when I can, so I will.
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
Thanks JCJ - I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the news will be final mid-November.
How are things your end?
Sanderika,
It's great that you managed to pop back and I appreciate it so much - I do understand how tired you must be and how everyone's sitch takes a toll on the rest of us. You are so busy helping people here it's a wonder you have any time for yourself! Do take care (((Sanderika))).
I agree with all that you said about my sitch at this time. Unfortunately, H did take more furniture when he was here last weekend but he did say that I could get it back, in time. I told him that it now held too many bad memories and that I would not be able to accept his offer - unless he came with it (was under my breath)!!
I haven't heard from him so far this weekend (its now Sunday, almost lunch time) and so I don't know if he's home and tired or did go interstate after all.
I called him on leaving for an ow and he remains ADAMANT that he did not. He said that things may have been different if I had stayed and not 'ran away' to the UK. I don't think that they would have, however. He really does believe that he was done with our M before he agreed to meet ow (remember, this was an EA before he had ever met the tramp).
Still, I have been out there and doing stuff for myself this weekend. I have made some great efforts, which H noticed, in the garden and it has encouraged me to keep that going. I shopped yesterday, which was really good as to have some money for myself at long last was a bonus. I bought wine and beers, which I haven't treated myself to for a long time! I even went browsing to upgrade my GPS, thinking that I may give my old one to H if I do get it. Part of me thinks that would be a nice thing to do whilst another part of me says that he doesn't deserve it when he's arguing with me over $2.50!!
Feeling a bit lonely again today - strange as I haven't really felt it in two weeks. Guess that, subconciously, I was waiting on H to contact me and now that he has not, I am pining. I must fill the rest of my day.
The weather is breaking here and it's been really hot. It's good to see people out and about but it does hammer it home all the more that I am on my own ... no GAL friends, no family.
When I am wandering sometimes, I find myself voicing to the Universe "Is this is? Is this all that's left for me for the rest of my days"? I make a cup of tea and then wonder what the next dirty trick H has up his sleeve to confront me with. I'm not over thinking that he will be here some time this week with the valuers but that hurts me less now ... I can manage that one quite well, knowing that he can do nothing about marketing the house until I am in agreement.
After a good last meeting, the see-saw continues to confuse me - nasty, nice; nasty, nice .... I just don't know how to respond any more and so just try to keep my wits about me and honor the positives. What else can I do??
Journaling - or venting?!
My sister phone me late this afternoon from the UK. Says that she thinks its about time I gave in and got some medication to give me the chemical lift that I so evidently need! Thanks Sis - I was doing OK up until that point. Her voice was patient and her words were so evidently carefully chosen - I could hear the deliberation over every word before she spoke it. Bottom line was her message "get over him, look after yourself, move on, stop pining .... " Oh, why is it that even your loved ones can't understand?
I'm so desperate to contact H today. I just want to scream at him "I MISS YOU - COME HOME - I LOVE YOU - WE CAN WORK THIS OUT" but I know that I have to hang on in there and wait this out .... and wait ... and wait ... and wait.
Your sister has no idea Nell! Nobody knows this journey except those of us who are living it. Only you know when it's time to pull the pin. I know I probably would have been your sister, expressing those thoughts only a few years ago.
Glad you vented here instead of contacting H!
Enjoy the working week
Cas
Nell,
Take comfort here....
We all have family who says the same. I do and have ostracized myself from the whole lot of them because of it. I am more at peace without their .02 cents. They probably meant well, but they were hurtful. I have had no real contact with them for almost 2 years. IMO they do not understand and cannot because they have never been in my shoes.
I am sorry I didn't realize H had taken some furnishings. Very interested he said you could get it back in time, hmmmmmm.....
I see what you say about the OW. To me EA or PA is still leaving for OW. They all start out as EA. That's what happened here. He became infatuated with OW and with time grew big enough ba!!s to tell me we were through after 26 years together. The PA part came within 6 months of him leaving me, it was still the same OW he left me for only their relationship grew and ours deteriorated rapidly. It's a very hard pill to swallow, in time I have learned to accept he is with someone else and this is not going to change any time soon.
When I tell people it is easier to DB when they are still home, I mean it. I wish Michelle would write a book just for those of us who have had spouses leave and teach us how to stand and cope with all the BS being dished out. Especially for those of us with a long duration of standing and the wishy-washy spouse who consistantly remains stuck on the highest post on the fence. For a select group, and you are in it along with me and several others, standing doesn't seem to be an option. It is who we are and we cannot change it. I personally see myself as a lifelong stander. I only want to end my marriage because of the pain. I do not want another relationship. For me it will not be possible.
I will love my H for the rest of my days and because of it do not believe I could fully give to another and that would not be fair. I believe the marriage can end and standing can continue. It is a personal choice.
Nell, keep the positives front and center in your mind. Work on those. When you think of trickery on his part and dwell on the bad he has done and hurt he has caused you lose sight of the goal you want. Practice positive behaviors until you cannot be any other way, that is when he will change. It takes time. You have time on your side.
Don't push for a valuation, leave the work to him. If he is not pushing it is a good thing. If he's with you and it is easy and a bit fun and comfortable even, he will have good thoughts. It is possible that he is not sure of his choice. Until that time when he is, DB like no tomorrow. You have nothing to lose. Don't lose sight of your wants and goals......Focus...Focus...Focus...Focus....
For me, I am grateful for the turning from hate to friends. In my sitch that means a mountain moved. It takes time, patience and consistency for a mountain to move.
Concentrate on what worked. Create a new relationship with H on the positives that worked. H is more vulnerable than he wants you to believe. Anything is possible here......promote good thinking and feelings in H. It's all you can do.
I wish I could be a success story for you. It is so hard. I still think the jury is out on my ending.....
I won't stay on top of my current successes if I backslide. I have to maintain at all cost.
The last thing you want thrown in your face is....."I knew it, you haven't changed and you never will. Nothing here is different." This is exactly what you get (even if he doesn't verbalize it) everytime you show him the angry...lashing out...pursueing...Nell.
I hope your weekend ended well. Have a good week. Make it a good week. (((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
(((Nell)))
I know what you mean by family - unforunately, I've stopped talking to much of mind - they're so angry at my W, it's difficult to take. I know they mean well, they're hurt by this too. I think they're mad at me too, for not handling in the same way they would.
It gets lonely.
I know too, about that feeling - I just want to say to W, can this be over now? Please, let's decide together to work on it. The wife I knew would have done anything. It's funny, she says that she worked on it for so long, but I didn't realize what was in her head. But yeah I know that feeling - so used to being a partner, and now don't know what to say or do. Except be patient.
Keep posting, I hope you have a good day Nell -
I think that you are so right Cas - and I ain't ready to pull the pin yet. I think that my sister worries for me, knowing that I am here alone but she also knows that I am not ready to go home, either. I just wonder what I would say to her if the tables were turned.
Thanks for your support ... and keep reading for my next installment, after I have answered the other wonderful posters!
Sanderika,
That's a surprise visit! Didn't think that you would be back so soon - you are looking after yourself, right?
I ostracized myself from the majority of my family many years ago - all excepting my sister. You are right - being at peace with yourself and what you do is more important than anyone else's 2 cents worth, especially when they often have their own agenda.
Yes, I was interested in H's comment about the furniture (no need for an apology btw - our postings are so long and complex sometimes, no wonder people miss things or get confused)!!
I hear you on H leaving. He's so adamant that this was not about ow but I think that is just him trying to cover his guilt, protect the tramp and hammer it home to me that he is done and it's about nothing else - therefore, leaving the door firmly closed and no reason to negotiate forward from. I envy you being able to accept what your H did - I know that if I live to be 350 years old, I will never accept this - I may forgive him but I will never accept it ... if that makes sense. I will always have that scar, however deep I manage to bury it.
I too wish that Michele would write a book just for LBSs - perhaps we should put that to her - it's not like she would be lost for material or case studies, is it?!!
I'm certainly not pushing the valuation - that was him the week before last but I've heard nothing more. I am praying that was yet another bluff but I am ready for him, if not. That doesn't do very much to get my engine revving now as I have worked out the solution to that scenario. I will be cross if he does go through with it but I shan't react, at all. No point when I can totally 'check mate' him! Ah, working again gives me some power back at my finger tips!!
I am certainly keeping the positives front and centre - I have good news to report today ... keep reading but I must first answer Bill's post!!
Take care Sanderika (((hugs))).
Hey (((Bill)))
Thanks for dropping in with your support - I love it when the guys come calling as, with most of us gals, we like the male perspective!!
Ooooh, I hear you! Family and friends become so ante-WAS that it becomes uncomfortable to discuss. ... I have had a few friends from back home who have dropped off the radar now because they can't cope with me defending H to them. If I can cope with the pain of what he's done, you think that they would too and keep their nebs out - I try to live by the theory that "if you have nothing good to say, don't say it" - evidently it's different here as we have to take the rough with the smooth because that's what will get us to doing the right things. However, I could not hurt my friends as they have hurt me - and most of their advice has been so hypocritical.
Too right it gets lonely. I often have a giggle to myself and wonder how many 'matches' Michelle could get if we opened this forum up as a dating board - there are so many good people here who seem to want the same thing out of life - so many who have experienced the same and would NEVER do it to anyone else. I have read so much from folk who seem to be making good relationships here and wonder how different their lives would be if they got it together and dumped the WASs from a great height - wouldn't that be divine retribution and just what many of them deserve??!!!!! LOL
I'm glad that you feel like me in wanting to say "can this be over now and we work it out together" ... I echo your words that your W said that she had worked on it for so long ... but you never knew what was in her head. Ditto for me and my H.
It's weird being alone again after having been a partner for so long, isn't it? You don't have to consider anyone else for anything else - not even down to the dinner you eat (alone) or the time you go to bed (alone) - nor even if anyone has fed the pets. It's all down to you - and you alone.
Hang on in there Bill and I would appreciate your (fast) response to the following, if you are around .... ?!!
Well my friends, the day started curiously, and got even more so. I need some fast answers here so listen in!!
Got to work and started my day. Next thing, H emailed to say thank you for a warning that I had sent him, regarding some stores which have had a real hammering on card fraud.
I replied and asked how the conference in Sydney had panned out and he came back with another polite email saying that it was good but would evidently cause him more work - and lots more travelling. I validated this - especially the travel part as he has always been a bit envious (supportively so) of the opportunities that I have had to travel in my previous roles. He said that he thought the only down side was that he couldn't get Air Miles out of it ... I didn't rise to the bait as I normally would have, just in case he was meaning that the Air Miles would have been useful for visiting ow (I tried not to be overly sensitive here)!! I merely passed over that bit and said that it was good to have a conference which was useful as so often, most are not! I also said that it was awesome that he was getting out and about a bit more, rather than being stuck in the office.
To close, I described a situation last night where the cats had been so cute at play ... I know that he would have loved to have seen their antics and I told him about it - even though short and sweet.
I asked after his health (he was having palpitations) but he ignored that totally and there was no more back and forth emails. I considered that I had probably blown it at the last point. I became so busy with my work and as I was fairly content at what had transpired, I just got on with my day. When I got home I went through my usual routine and then turned on my computer ....
.... only to find that H had emailed again!! This time was to say that he was considering coming down at the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As my regular readers will know, this is a HUGE breakthrough - not only in the amount of emails but that I only saw him the weekend before last. At that time, we had not discussed when he would come again and although I had asked him if he would assist me with some garden shopping at some stage, I never expected that he would remember, that he would really help or that it would be so soon!!!!!!!! I'm blown away.
Of course, all of that is the heart talking so now, the head must speak. Are his actions because:
1) he genuinely wants to help
2) I told him that the spa and lawn mower needed some attention
3) he wants to pick up more stuff from the house
4) he wants to see the cats
5) he wants to see me - well, more surprises have been known!!!!
6) he wants to keep his eye on the place and make sure that all of his efforts now will equate to a better valuation, if and when he carries out that threat?
7) he has more bad news to break to me
8) he knows that I was being SERIOUSLY checked out when driving up the Freeway this morning (!!!!!)
I haven't emailed him back yet in response but I am trying to keep calm and not show any excitement. I almost wanted to say "that's great and why not stop for a BBQ and a beer" but that might scare him right off. Instead, I am thinking:
"That would be really great if you could help out at the weekend" .... and then make sure that I have stuff here ready for a barbie, or, could offer to go out for something to eat, if not - don't want to scare him by having a vegetarians fridge packed with carnivorous produce!!
I REALLY expected pull back from him after the last weekend that he was here and this seems like a dream come true ... well, almost.
So, quick, quick ... what is my response?? H seems much more ready to engage with me these days if I don't "play games" and not answer him for a day (or several) at a time!!
It's crucial that I get this next bit right .... suggestions, PLEASE!!
Nell & Bill I totally get where youre coming from, dont you just want to give them a good slap up the side of the head and shout enough is enough now FGS grow up. I'd certainly have done it with my S(21) a few times its seem silly saying to ones H. They could say dont treat me like a child but its hard not to when they are behaving no worse than a spoilt teenager. Keep your chin up both of you. Hugs
Did H say why he was considering coming over this weekend?
You really want to know Cas? ....
H said "I am considering coming down to get the sheep [manure] sorted out" .... ah, romance, it's never dead is it??!!! LOL
I had asked him to come with his car (he has a tow bolt) to help me shop for sheep sh ... manure!! I need a trailer or else I have to pay delivery charges and it seemed that H was open minded to helping out so here we are ....
If sheep sh*t is a good enough excuse milk it girl lol! Replied to other burrow too!
I'm more than happy to take this sh*t from him!!!!!!!!!
<grinning and giggling>
I think you are on the right track about simply replying to say his help would be great this weekend. You're right about keeping calm and not showing excitement. In your mind you have to say H is doing me a favour and not try to read too much more into it. Perhaps having a bbq might be a bit much because as you don't eat meat it shows you had an expectation that he would stay by having meat on hand. However, I'd have a cold drink on hand and some nibblies which you just happen to keep in the fridge/cupboard. You can always pop out for a bite to eat or to grab some meat if the opportunity arises.
The emails are exciting and a real breakthrough and certainly his visit is a great move. From my own experience don't stuff it up as I so often did by being overly anxious/eager. Be cool and remember no expectations. He's helping you. That's awesome. Take it as a real positive and try not to read ulterior motives into it. Let him feel his way back quietly, slowly and calmly.
Hugs Nell,
Cas
Oh thanks Cas - and I know that you have given good advice.
I'm trying not to run away with myself here but it's hard not to take the crumbs when there has been such a long period of famine!
I am confident that by staying calm and not reacting to H, that's what has allowed him to come a step nearer so much sooner this time. It's worked once and I have to make it work again. I shall employ all the same techniques that I did last time. More of the same.
Of course, I'm no fool and I know that he must also want to pick up his mail, his Wii Sports (which I told him wasn't here and then I had to 'get it back' - even though it was hiding all the time in my cupboard) and generally check out what I am up to.
Oh, btw, I got the Men Walk and Women Talk book on Saturday. I wasn't concentrating on it too much however and so have given it a rest after the first 20 pages were too draining!! I will go back to it again though after all the effort it took to get it in to the Uni library - and of course, your kind recommendation. I need to have finished it before the weekend, right?!!
Hi Nell
Yes, my question would have been the same as Cas's. Why was he coming over. My advice is just keep it simple. Do not make it look as if you are trying too hard or be overly enthusiastic(but perhaps some tight jeans with your wellingtons to show off the fabulous new body wouldn't hurt
).
Also, I would say don't go overboard with the barbie, in my books you can't beat a good bacon sarnie and then start cooking in the evening (veg not meat) and if he wants to stay fine but if he doesn't let him go. NO EXPECTATIONS
And I wanted to point out two bits of great divorce busting.
I didn't rise to the bait as I normally would have, just in case he was meaning that the Air Miles would have been useful for visiting ow (I tried not to be overly sensitive here)!!
I considered that I had probably blown it at the last point. I became so busy with my work and as I was fairly content at what had transpired, I just got on with my day.
I don't recognise the Nell of a few months ago. You are doing really great.
OK Nell,
I mirror Cas' advice.
Send H a quick (very friendly) email: "Hi there H, I would love to have your help this weekend with the sheep sh*t, thank you so much, looking forward to it.....Nell" Any variance of this will work.
Do not pester him about the "what day and time". Be ready for either day and like Cas said don't be disappointed if this ends up a "NO GO". MLC men very often say things and do not carry through. Be happy that he had the thought to help and keep hope that he will re-surface again soon. No pursueing here...
This weekend make sure you are looking and smelling fine, fine, fine....Same goes for the house!!!
Do not have expectations that H will BBQ with you. I agree you have to have a few irresistable yum-yums and frosty chasers around to offer him. Do not over do it here....this can lead to huge disappointment. Been there and done that, you know.....
Now for behavior....remind yourself of the last visit and how well it went. You need to portray that same Nell to H. Make him feel welcome and invited and be warm and friendly, be thoughtful and concerning. Engage H in his favorite topics. Compliment him for something. Don't overdo anything, it will look poured on and phony. Keep calm, cool and collected every minute. Give H a little space while he's there. Don't overdo the attention. It's ok to leave him alone to handle part of this.....he's the man, he's done this before. When it's time for him to go make sure he feels appreciated and validate his assistance in a grateful manner.
Nell, this is all about H being witness to a new and improved Nell and home. This is one of your few opportunities to let H see for himself that things have changed and he is wanted. Wanted is different from Needed. Make H feel Wanted. He needs to be comfortable and unpressured when he visits. He needs to feel appreciated and desired in a way that will make his inner self feel really good.
We have a few days to go til your visit. Let's hear all the ideas....We will all help as best we know how....
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
Hey Nell - just catching up -
Yeah, I agree, keep it simple. Just respond and say, yes, thank you, that would be great.
Don't make it about him when he visits -
This is the time to show him how great you're doing.
You might want to so some decorating - just to show, you're living fine with yourself, making yourself comfortable, investing in your life.
I also agree, it'll be more casual to "pop out for a bite" if the situation lends itself. No pressure, but seems natural once the chores are done.
Time for me to hit the hay, but will check in with you later!
Thanks for all your advice, JCJ, Cas, Sanderika, Bill ... pardon my hurried response tonight but I'm just in from C and called in to get myself a pizza as a BIG treat, on the way home! First one that I've had since the bomb was dropped in May, due to a) not eating a whole lot b) couldn't afford it c) fearful of going out in the night on my own ..... but now, a) I'm eating a little more b) I can afford it since getting a job and c) OK, so it's dark - but there's no big bad wolf over at the shopping precinct where my car is parked right outside the door!!!!!
So, sorry to dash - I REALLY appreciate all the kind and sensible words of advice and will drop in on you all tomorrow!! (((hugs2all)))
Hope the pizza was good, Nell!
Oh boy ... it was yummy. It was Cheapy Tuesday at our brand new Eagle Boys (which I didn't know about) so I ended up with two large veggie delights, garlic bread and a big bottle of coke for just $15.95 (£7 for you Poms and sorry American folk, haven't got a clue in US$)!! I've frozen mostly all the pizza, which is going to keep me going for weeks! Yummy .... anyone from Eagle Boys reading this? All royalties to me, please!!
Journaling:
So, today has been pretty good. Spent most of the day out of the office and being out and about with my sick, lame and lazy clients!! It was good to be in the sunshine at 29 degrees on this beautiful Spring day.
Was at an appointment near H's place and stopped for some lunch as I had time. Realising how close I was, I sent a text to H to ask if he wanted me to drop in a card of his that I am holding. Told him:
Me: I'm in the neighbourhood and haven't got much time but could drop your card in
H: No, all good, I'll pick it up at the weekend if that's OK - busy with clients right now anyhow
Me: Just a thought that was all - didn't mean to impose! (GREAT - confirmation that he's no longer thinking about coming down but actually IS coming)
H: Weekend is fine, thanks.
Me: OK - please let me know what day best suits.
...and then I don't know why but I added "I saw that horrid crash on the freeway last night - two men were killed". It was almost like I wanted to say "life's too short for all this" but knew that it wasn't the time or the place. It is, however, a big fear for me. What if .... I need not complete the sentence for all of those who fear, like me, that they may never have the chance to say "goodbye" at the appropriate time.
... On to less macabre things, I came home and set to play with God's little joke for the LBS ... WEEDS!!!!!!! I'm sure that they were sent to give us something meaningful to do with our time. Why am I always out there wrestling with the little blighters?!!
Anyhow, had mentioned to H on Monday that I would get them all out before he comes along at the weekend with the sheep sh*t and then the beds will be ready to receive said smelly stuff!! Garden all weeded as well as the beds ... looks good - H should be well impressed but overall, I got a sense of achievement and stood back when finished and said to the Universe - as it is my new bezzy friend - "this is for me. I am proud of my home and I am proud of my garden. I am suffering with an aching lower back now and in the morning I know that my fingers will ache too, but I have achieved and will continue to do so. I can put on a front that all is well in my life. No-one outside needs to see the pain inside - and that includes H. My store front is pristine and everything is neat and orderly. I am portraying confidence and that my life is in order. I am content .... but will be even more so at the weekend when I see my H"!!!!!!!
I'm such a sook but it's killed off another evening and I am happy-ish. And so to bed.
Sneaky Nell, nice txting friendly offering assistance but not pursuing! and of course good to know he's coming at the weekend!
Hi Nell,
Your Pizzas, Garlic Bread and Coke would run about $33.00 +/-(American) Ouch!!!!!! Funny, we are used to our prices and pay 'em happily especially for Pizzas, Garlic Bread and Coke....
Keep 'em coming please!!!!
Sounds to me like everything is getting in order for the weekend. Don't forget to get some time in to relax so you are'nt too tightly wound when he shows up. You want to keep your stress at bay. It has to be calm, cool and collected all they way.....
You're doing great......
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
Nell,
If I can be honest I see this as pursuing.
Me: I'm in the neighbourhood and haven't got much time but could drop your card in
H: No, all good, I'll pick it up at the weekend if that's OK - busy with clients right now anyhow
Me: Just a thought that was all - didn't mean to impose! (GREAT - confirmation that he's no longer thinking about coming down but actually IS coming)
H: Weekend is fine, thanks.
Me: OK - please let me know what day best suits.
If you had to text him you should have stopped after he said he was busy with clients but you carried on. 'Didn't mean to impose' is quite loaded also imo. Remember, just be cool. Not in the cold sense of the word
Hi Nell
Sorry I haven't posted in a while but I have been lurking and reading and following along with how things are progressing.
I feel you have a better hold on your emotions now which is so important especially for when you see H on the weekend. Remember what H needs to see is the confident, fun gorgeous Nell that H first met, one who didn't pursue or get angry or anything like that.
Make everything as casual as possible when H arrives, it is hard I know but you need to come across as very relaxed not on edge or uptight. So I agree with what Sanderika said, make sure you take some time out before he arrives to ensure you are in a relaxed easy state of mind - this is very important especially if you feel your emotions might get the better of you.
You mentioned a bit earlier in one of your posts that your H responds better if he doesn't think you are "playing games", that is exactly what my H said to me when he was at his boiling point just before we had our big conversation. He did not like game playing and felt that that was what I was doing, you have to tread a bit more careful with the ones who think like that as I found out the hard way.
In any case Nell I think you are now doing so much better than you were a couple of weeks ago and that in itself will show to your H even if you don't think it will.
(((((((((Nell))))))))
Hey Ladies
Rabbit - yes, I guess it was a bit sneaky but it felt right at the time and I was SO close to his office! Actually, I was in a car park where we would often meet and grab a takeaway lunch. Guess that's what spurred me to SMS him in the first place - that and The Beatles playing on my in-car sounds! I love The Beatles!!
Sanderika - it's all swings and roundabouts price wise, throughout the world. I loved going home to some GREAT bargains last October and June ... don't seem to get any here - except for Pizza, of course!! All the bargains are in Canada, as far as I am concerned!
JCJ - I can't tell a lie - you are spot on, it was pursuing. 'Naughty Nell'!! I knew that I should have stopped but there was something in his second comment (I've abbreviated the texts here for obvious reasons) that made me believe that he thought that I was still going to go to his office and I just wanted to clarify that I was not.
Despite my email on Monday, asking him to let me know by Thursday what day he will be down at the weekend, still nothing. Fair enough, it's only Thursday morning but I get the feeling that he will not respond to that request and may just let me know on Friday to show that he is still in control. I shan't push either way - I have no plans for the weekend anyhow so if he just turns up, so be it. I will be ready. If I do happen to go out, then so be that too and he will have had a wasted journey!
If I do happen to go out, then so be that too and he will have had a wasted journey!
You've got it right I reckon Nell. You're making such great strides!
Nell, I second what JCJ just said, you are learning in leaps and bounds my friend.
Atta girl now you really starting to "play the game" lol! Feeling a bit more perky today so off shopping will catch up with you later x
Thank you ladeeeeeeez!
I may have learned how to DB a bit better but I still haven't brought any control back. H still hasn't emailed what day he is coming down and I'm certainly not going to ask him! It would not surprise me one little bit if he "changes his plans".
Been missing him quite badly today. As we approach the five month marker, I feel that it's a long time and the more water goes under the bridge, the less likely there will be a way back. I really want to say something to him which tells him that I am not ambivalent about our marriage - as I think that he now sees me. I think that he kind of feels that I have accepted that this is over. I've stopped pursuing (mostly!), no shouting, no screaming, no tempter tantrums, no anything ... just 'acceptance' and nothing else. I've given him stuff from the home, I've complied with so much that he wants. I've got a job and I've been financially supportive of him. He thinks that I am done ... I just don't know what to do next .... I don't want him to feel that way because as you know, I'm anything but done.
I know that this is supposed to be counter-intuitive - and it is! - but I feel that it's making my H dig his heels in even further. Yes, he's being nicer now, yes he's doing very slightly more than nothing .... but he's not doing anything terribly positive either when it's all boiled down. I don't want to keep on waiting ... I want to act.
Oh forgot to mention but no C appointments available for next Tuesday which means that I have to wait two weeks to go again. What am I going to do?? It's been a life-line to me this past ten weeks or so. Anyhow, using the opportunity to 'wean' me, C has said that it's a good idea to go 2 weekly now as I am making so much better progress! Only two weeks ago she was really worried about me because I had made no progress!! Ah well, mustn't grumble. I feel like I am starting to sound like a cracked record anyhow and I can't use her service for ever more just to have a sounding board once a week. That's what you guys are for!!
I really want to say something to him which tells him that I am not ambivalent about our marriage - as I think that he now sees me. I think that he kind of feels that I have accepted that this is over. I've stopped pursuing (mostly!), no shouting, no screaming, no tempter tantrums, no anything ... just 'acceptance' and nothing else. I've given him stuff from the home, I've complied with so much that he wants. I've got a job and I've been financially supportive of him. He thinks that I am done ... I just don't know what to do next .... I don't want him to feel that way because as you know, I'm anything but done.
You are lying to yourself. You ARE still pursuing. Have been pursuing.
Was at an appointment near H's place and stopped for some lunch as I had time. Realising how close I was, I sent a text to H to ask if he wanted me to drop in a card of his that I am holding. Told him:
Me: I'm in the neighbourhood and haven't got much time but could drop your card in
Got to work and started my day. Next thing, H emailed to say thank you for a warning that I had sent him, regarding some stores which have had a real hammering on card fraud.
To close, I described a situation last night where the cats had been so cute at play ... I know that he would have loved to have seen their antics and I told him about it - even though short and sweet.
I asked after his health (he was having palpitations) but he ignored that totally and there was no more back and forth emails.
He said that he would respond to my previous emails when he gets back as his wifi connection was poor at the hotel.
I was so concerned as to whether or not he was getting back at the weekend and, after having sent something to his work email address, his out of office confirmed that he will be back on Monday so I am now cock-a-hoop knowing that he will not be staying interstate at the weekend!
This has all been in the last 10 days or so. This is nothing but pursuit. He can FEEL it. Trust me. You have to stop this pursuing and then telling yourself you aren't. It isn't working.
I do trust you Gucci but it's so hard. I can't help what I feel. I am trying - REALLY I am. I'm just hurting so much and yet trying to do the right thing - I'm so scared that this is running away too fast ..... I have no control over what I want to hold on to so dearly.
I honestly thought that I had been doing better and that's why H is prepared to come down again - two weekends out of three.
Nell you have been doing better for you! Maybe take Gucci's words as food for thought! I know exactly how you feel, its as if H is within grasp and you cant resist the urge to just grab him but that WILL send him running, look how fast my H ran when I mentioned the word together lol!
I should be grabbing H by the throat - that's what I should be doing. Gucci is always thought provoking but it has left me feeling flat and empty today and I haven't felt like that in a few weeks.
I believe that things were going much better between H and I - the last visit certainly showed that - the evidence that HE wanted to come over this weekend was a baby step as far as I was concerned. Everyone else thought that was great so why does Gucci feel that it is wrong?? This is not cake-eating coming from H - he's not so much as touched my hand for months now and nor he will until ow is well out of the picture. I know him and I know that for sure.
I'm so confused
The Gucci way seems to say "it's my way or the highway" in any dealings with H .... I know what my H would do if I made it that clear to him and then I've lost him for good. That's not what I want to do. I feel that I can afford to coax him slowly for a little longer ... I know that I have some time and I am not going to blow this, even though I would like results so very much quicker.
Again - I'm so confused
Im with you on this one Nell, its right to set your boundaries, I dont think your H is cake eating, one pleasant visit doesnt constitute cake eating.
Now with me Gucci might have a point and Im not even competing with an OW just a dozy H lol!
Chin up and see what the weekend brings, you know your H better than anyone and as you said to Cas you have to take all the advice juggle it about and use what works "more of the same"
Nell, all Gucci is saying is that you are still pursuing, which in all honestly you are. You are calling it coaxing.
It is good that h is coming at the weekend and there is nothing to stop you looking amazing, being self assured and ultimately fabulous. You are talking about throwing a bbq for the guy etc etc. There is something very attractive about a self-assured, confident woman. Be that woman.
Thanks Rabbit ...
I know that Gucci speaks a lot of sense but I seem to have got more out of H lately by being more communicative and friendly toward him than when I was DB'ing hard and NC.
I appreciate the male perspective here as we gals stand to benefit from knowing what is in the mind of the male folk. However, not all men folk are the same and some have different agenda's. Whilst many WAHs are off with ow for a fling, I believe that some really are done and are serious about moving on with their lives - I think that my WAH is one of the latter. He's not an A person and that's why I think that our situation is now very, very serious.
Hi Nell,
Don't feel flat and empty just yet.
I would keep the upbeat emotions flowing in light of the upcoming weekend, if for no other reason. If you start to feel flat and empty (dwelling on ALL the problems at hand) it will show to others and you MUST be very much the opposite right now.
I agree with Julia, Gucci is simply stating that what you have been doing over the past 10 days or so is pursueing. I agree with him (them).
You need to learn how to DB effectively without pursueing.
Remember my "happy face" earlier this week. Pursueing, Pursueing, Pursueing.....Stupid me!!!!
DB the right way takes time. We, ladies, have been telling you stuff that has worked for us. Gucci, we love him, is telling you stuff that works also. Like Cas said it's all great advice from those of us who have been there and done that....you ultimately need to sort out the good ideas vs. the bad ones based on who you guys are personality wise and the history you share. We will tell you bad ideas if you give us the chance to do so....so keep coming here for advice, it's way better than any other on earth. Like someone else said "We have all been there and/or are there and the advice is priceless for what it costs." We are a family, we want to help.
Jump to me.....to enlighten you. My "happy face" didn't cause too much damage, H called last night and we had a wonderful hour long chat and laughed and had a great time. He is coming around. It's his timing and his comfort level. It's Sanderika being patient and time. Not to mention my personal DB techniques with H.
Nell, none of your DB friends are D yet (I think). We are full of ideas and have been able to bring our marriages to better places than when this all started. I think I am the record holder (in your current circle of DB friends) at 50 + months post-bomb. I brought my marriage FROM "I hate you, we are getting a D" and an H that was running away so fast he was on fire TO last night and a fun, meaningful conversation with H, a call he initiated (H said he wanted to call me right from work). YES, I understand that it has been 50 + months, it was my choice. This takes a lot of work and time. We make a choice DB and give it time and a world of patience.
What I am saying, see what the weekend holds. Let's see what happens, this will tell us where your H is at currently. Believe me, the rollercoaster ride will continue. It will be filled with ups and downs. YOU WILL NOT attract H back if you treat him any other way but kind, concerning, friendly, etc...just the way we all tell you to treat him. So do it!!
I will stay in touch over the weekend to help if I can, got to get ready for work.....(((((Hugs))))) I am a day behind you and I find that a problem. (Keep it in mind)
Sanderika
JCJ - I know that I have pursued ... I can't lie about it but I don't feel that it's as blatant as I once was! I really do feel that there is slight progress from H and that's because I have been more communicative and more in control of myself.
H has just emailed to say that he will be down tomorrow morning. I WILL BE FABULOUS! I may also be a dog, if the situation arises - just read this really funny quote on someone's thread which had me in stitches:
"The grass is always greener on the other side till the neighbors dog shits in it. Be the dog".
Bless you Sanderika. Thanks for clarifying the Gucci advice and yes, I now see what he was saying much more clearly - I am a bit too sensitive sometimes and H was justified in always telling me that!
I feel more upbeat and knowing that H is coming by tomorrow has got me to thinking of all the ways in which I am going to behave. I shan't be acting excited - will keep that feeling inside. I shall ask him if he wants to go alone to pick up the garden stuff ... I have chores to do, afterall !!
I shall treat him as though he is a friend who has come around to do some chores for me.
I hope that work goes well Sanderika. I couldn't find your post but asked Cas and she lead me to you. Have posted there. Have a good day at work - yes, it's difficult for us on different continents and in different time zones too! Still, we are the family that prays and stays together so we will be here today and tomorrow - or whenever we are needed.
Take care.
I just love the dog analogy, but just remember to keep pooing and not be the adoring puppy dog eyes and waggy tail pleased to see you version!
Sanderika if you have a minute would value your opinion on my sitch! TIA LR
Gotcha Rabbit!
Two and a half hours to 'the visit' but I'm still sat here in my PJ's and pondering how I will play this out. Thought that I would be in headless chicken mode but I'm chilled. There's nothing to do which would impress him and I'm not out to do that anyhow. H knows me - H knows our home. I'm putting on no shows.
Just going about my day ... he's here or he's not here ... not a care in the world.
OK - action stations ...........> > > > > !!!!
Oh gee - if ever I needed sobering up, today's horoscope has just pulled me in to shape:
You might choose to follow your feelings today instead of your logic until a close friend or partner reminds you of your obligations. Others may be depending on you now, leaving you little room for mental flights of fancy. Nevertheless, you'll still probably slip away for a few quick daydreams, only to be snapped back to the present moment by a wake-up call from reality. Don't let your fantasies get in the way of what must be done.
((((Nell)))),
I've never posted on your thread before... quite new here. But, started following your sitch a few days ago and wanted you to know I'm keeping you in my prayers this weekend.
Rocked
Hi Nell,
Just wondering how your day has been and whether H has been to visit.
Been thinking of you lots hun, hope the silence is a good one!
It came and it went. Some good things but mostly the bottom line is bad.
My heart is breaking - I'm bleeding out.
Hey ho tho - my garden is full of sheep sh*t and looking good so that's all that matters.
Hey Rocked - so nice of you to drop by. Thank you for your kind words and prayers ...
I'm not up to it this evening (forgive me) but I shall drop by to visit your thread tomorrow. I appreciate having a new buddy around ... the more the merrier.
Just dropped in myself to find some strength before going to bed ... I just want to hide away from the world and lick my newly opened wounds.
Hi Cas - thanks for keeping me in your thoughts.
Yes, H came - and went about 7hrs later - the longest that he has ever stayed. As you may have read above, there were a lot of positives but there were so many negatives to balance it out.
I hear that his heart is not done but his head is.
Where do I go from here??
Hi Nell,
Sending those hugs you so need at this point. Hope you can find peace to ensure you sleep soundly tonight.
Cas
Thanks Rabbit .... I'm hiding in the burrow this evening.
Cas - I'm finding solace in the bottom of a wine bottle right now. Probably not the best idea as neither of us have eaten all day - too busy shovelling shite - of the emotional as well as sheep variety.
You OK? I have read what's going on but will throw in my best tomorrow. Right now I don't think that I am up to forming a thought, never mind an opinion. Sorry.
Thanks for (((hugs))
I'm fine actually, Nell. We'll catch up tomorrow as I'm off to bed now and you need your beauty sleep...(better than that wine)
See you later
(((Nell))) try and get some sleep.
(((((Nell)))))
Just want you to know I am here and thinking of you.
Keep in mind DB is full of disappointment and set-back for all of us. Quite often more of the aforementioned and less of the positive and promising for a very long time in these sitches.
Come to us when you are able and give us the details (good and bad) in as much as you are comfortable with. Let us, your friends, help you sort it out. (It might be better for you than sitting and dwelling in replay for hours.)
Sleep well, my friend.....((((((Nell)))))
Sanderika
Good Morning (((Nell))),
Are you up and feeling ok???
I am worried about you.......
Sanderika
Thank you ladies for your support. I know exactly what I did wrong yesterday and even though it pains me to say it, my desperation made me backslide, backslide and then backslide even further. I broke every rule in the DB book - again.
It all started off well. H picked me up and we went to shop for the sheep manure. Had to hang around a bit waiting on a trailer so decided to drive out for coffee. Long story short, we ended up doing the journey three times in total - two loads and then took the trailer back. This allowed us lots of time in the car - however, 1) I saw ow's hair band in the cup holder 2) screen save came on H's cellphone with the tramps photo. I have never seen bimbo before and it was a bitter blow 3) Hotel brochure in door pocket - all negative. Positive were that there was still stuff of mine in the car ... ??? Couldn't figure that out at all.
With all the driving time we somehow started R talk and I said that it seemed more than obvious that he was done and never now coming home. He said that I was putting words in to his mouth and yet he didn't believe that there was a way forward for us. I believe, he doesn't. He admitted that things in his new world are not right and again he wouldn't say more about it as it's all stuff that he considers that I would not want to hear, naturally so. I said that I wanted him to be happy but not at the expense of our 17 years together. He said that he could not go on the way it was and I admitted that I still don't know why he feels that way - yes we rowed, as do all couples, but I don't know where he has this picture from that he evidently does. He made out that we were rowing longer and more frequently - and that's just not true. He ignores everything that I have said about my feelings of sadness and emigration adjustment. I told him that I felt he had rewritten our history, he says that he has not. He smiled as he said that we have lots of good memories. He used the WE word quite a lot throughout the day.
Got on with preparing the 'beds' and laying the manure. We work so well as a team and H complimented my new found stamina for hard work - and it was. About 7hrs of pulling weeds, pulling out plants, shovelling, brushing and damping down. We were both exhausted. Neither of us had stopped for lunch and so I offered that I could make something for us to eat with a cuppa and he said "a glass of water will be fine" - that's all we both had all day - one coffee, two glasses of water.
Before H left, we sat on the patio and played with the cats. H looked content curled up on the lounger and he talked about work and how he would be spending two out of every four weeks in Sydney, with the new project. He was sad about it as it interfered with every aspect of his life. I intimated that he should get a new job, whatever he could and move nearer to ow if that would make him happy. He said that it would not - there are too many complications, as he put it.
Our talk throughout the day gave away some of his feelings toward me and, whilst I can't say that I know exactly how he is feeling, I can only summarise it in that his head is done but his heart is not - not totally, not completely. He has feelings ... he wants to spend time with me. I asked him why he had offered to help yesterday and he said that he wanted to. I asked him if he missed his home and he said "home ... yes, house no". He went on to say that he felt that I had forced his hand in moving out of our home because my rage was getting worse. I asked him to imagine how he would feel if the bomb had been dropped on him rather than vice versa. He said that he understood but was not prepared to tolerate such.
I said something which touched the usual raw nerve and he got up to leave. I walked out with him and he kept a big distance between us. I asked him why he was leaving this way, again and he said that he won't put up with me abusing him. I had not. I had merely given an opinion (he's allowed to, I'm not). In other words, I got too close - verbally - and he felt uncomfortable. He said that I was still raging and I commented that was just not true - I have not raised my voice once in the past three visits and I am very calm. He agreed that I was but said "your raging inside - I can see it in your eyes" .. huh, windows to the soul, indeed. He reads me so well - but then he is the one person in the world that knows me so well. I walked indoors without a goodbye and he drove away.
I called him almost two hours later but apparently he was in the shower. I had left a voice mail and he sent me a text to say that he was too tired after our hard work, had decided not to go out after all and was headed to bed. He thanked me for thanking him.
Positives of the day were:
1) I found out that he does have feelings - they are just low in his current priorities
2) He initiated this sheep manure day and wants to do it again, working on a different part of the garden
3) We still work really well as a team!
4) I know that he's not happy ... sorry, but that is a positive for me!
5) I got three trips out in the car with him - I haven't even been in his car since June 1st.
6) He said that he has no plans right now but will start to look at what he wants after Christmas
7) He agreed with some of my 'garden plans' and, after they were executed, he said that it was a good thing to have done, even though he was a bit reluctant at first (this showed me that he does have pride in the home, even though we both wanted to sell the house pre-bomb)
8) I was able to pay my way financially for the first time since pre-bomb
9) H's funds are running low as he has had to fund his business trip and await his expenses. I was able to offer him a loan, which he gallantly declined!
10) H stayed for 7hrs yesterday - the longest time since becoming WAH.
Apologies for long post but it was a long day. I'm left feeling a bit numb and daunted but I feel that, in a strange way, I gained something - I just don't know what. Overall, I feel confused in that now I know he still has feelings but just isn't prepared to act on them as he is - in my view - scared. He feels life with ow is a better choice for him and I feel that the water is running out of my tub far too quickly.
I guess that I just sit back now and wait ... right??
Hi Sanderika - yes! I'm up and it's so sweet of you to worry about me, but I am better today. (((Hugs4U))).
I reacted badly last night to the disappointments that the day brought. I should have been looking at the successes and celebrating them for there were some. I had been warned, my horoscope was right!
Guess that I just can't get my head away from H having his heels so firmly dug in to ow territory - but still being relatively kind and quite caring toward me .... go figure??
How has your day been?
Hi Nell,
so sorry to hear that the visit had not been as you had hoped. I don't know how much I can contribute being such a newbie myself, but to me... it sounds a bit encouraging that his heart is not done. My H has been telling me since the bomb that he is "emotionally dead" and he doesn't know if his heart is in this... so devestating. I think if he told me his heart wasn't done, but his head was I would feel like "good... we can work on your head but the heart is harder to change". Just my 2 cents....Hope you are doing ok. Have been known to find solace at the bottom of a wine bottle myself in the past few months. Finally realized that was not helping and have seemed to better with detaching since I stopped all that. Thinking of you...
Hi RW
Just been visiting over at yours!
I hope that my observation of H's heart not being done is right - they were my words and not his. He's a good man and I know that he must have been hurting so badly to have taken this action. We have always abhorred the concept of people who have A's but he felt that he was done BEFORE he moved along to ow and for him, that feels OK. I feel that it is not.
Don't go worrying about me and the wine bottle! That's about the second one I have had in oh ... probably about 18 months!! I can take it or leave it with alcohol and although I like to have some in for visitors and the like, it's a rare thing for me to drink. I just felt that I worked hard enough yesterday to treat myself to one and that one became half a bottle with my disappointment and continuing pain.
Was awake most of the night - guess I've only had about three hours sleep and am now suffering from "Gardeners Back" to add to my misery!!
Doubt if I will hear from H for a while now but I know that I have to keep my distance until he comes to me next.
Hi, Nell. I have been a lurker in our thread for a while now, just never posted. I am in a down moment myself now just because of the reality of it all.
You know your H after 17 y of M, so you are probably right that his heart is not done, which is a good thing. Regardless of if you stay together or not, I believe that life after M is probably better if there is still caring involved, not by experience of course, just a hunch. I do see possibility in that your H is not happy in his current sitch. My advice, thought I can't seem to listen to myself all the time, would be to not bring up the R the next time you see each other and for as long as possible after that. He said he misses "home, not the house," Home means you and the cats. Do your best to let the anger out through hard work while you are alone and to be the most positive you can be while you are in contact with your H. You will feel better about it in the long run, I think.
Take care.
BIM
(((((Nell)))))
I don't really see all that much bad in your day!!!!!!
Since you gave me a lot too digest, this is a bit for now....
I see the relationship talk as bad. Your not supposee to have them, remember!!!! It's way too early to get all nitty-gritty with your H. The context was not all that bad. H told you what he thought was honest. It's not bad, it gives you a place to work from. Knowledge is power.
The positives are as long as H has feelings for you and cares about the home you have lots to build on. Lots, girlfriend. Do you hear me. This is not hopeless.
H has feelings for you, love is hard to deny and leave. His brain can be changed with consistent behavior and time.
He misses the home (the home is you, the kitties, warm and comfortable.....home) The house is a building requiring work and effort and burdens. Make the house free of burdens and bring back the home.....Do I make sense. Change the bad to good.
H WANTED to come over not to just shovel poop but to see you, the kitties and the home. H WANTS to come again. NEXT TIME you be what we have told you to be. I am telling you this because it works.....You have to be what he wants, you have to lose the Nell he can't handle and live with anymore. You have to understand that if you want him back this is all about him. Forget about your needs and opinions for now. Cater to him. He is needy and he needs compassion and care and gentle treatment. Look at him as lost and alone. He is like a little lost lamb, crying out. Treat him well. You will gain a reward.
Sweetie, bury that rage. I understand that you did not portray the imagine front and center. He knows you so well he could still see it. Bury it!!!! I mean it. You need to change absolutely and completely, for good!!!! Please do this!!!
As far as the OW goes....There are big problems there. He isn't infatuated with that at this time. This is huge. He is at a point where the shine is wearing off, that situation isn't looking so rosy and green. H is back in limbo mode and not feeling all that good about his departure or choice.
Don't be so reluctant to shut and lock the door on his life with the OW. If he wants to talk to you about her, let him. Engage him..... absolutely - YES!!! How do you think she was able to get him away from you. She listened with a sympathetic ear every chance she got and another thing she led him away from you with her words against you. She was there to listen and it worked and he turned to her because she was sympathetic and therefore was able to fill a void he thought was left open by you. If you ever have a talk about her....DO NOT talk bad about her....NEVER. It would be best for you to stay quiet and listen. Any negative comment about her will be a bad thing for you.....he will get angry, trust me!!!! He will realize you are mature and respectful being this way about her and it is a big gold star for you.
This is where you can gain some ground if you play this right. When I say that you have to practice a new behavior until you are the new behavior I mean it. This will be your only chance to turn this around.
This is where my H and I are....he turns to me to chat and converse in a meaningful way. It's great!!!!
If you think about most relationships they start by friendly yet meaningful conversing. Given nurturing they grow into something more.
My day was good, thanks for asking, I spent 6+ hours with H here at home. We had lunch and talked and talked. We got out an old truck and played with it a little, tinkering on the engine. It's all about H. I was going to paint the hall, when he rang it was worth skipping. The day ended good. Could it have been better? Sure. It was a good day. I am happy with that. It was full of surprise too, since I didn't expect to hear from him.
Nell, re-group your thoughts. Don't be pursueing. You called him and thanked him. Leave it alone for a few days. Let's see what H will do next.
I want you to say goodbye and be nice when he leaves. Letting him leave being cold and unkind is not good. That is a last memory he has as he drives away. You don't have to be "ga-ga" but be good to him, kindness goes a long way in someone's thoughts.
(((((Nell)))))
Chin-up, you can do this. Remember time and patience and maintain. DB your butt off. No expectations!!!! Recognize the good and nurture it. Bring the Nell back he fell in love with, you will be irresistable.
Sanderika
Hello BIM and thanks for dropping in!
You are so right. I do try not to have the R talk with H but when something crops up and it seems like an ideal moment, it all comes pouring forth. It's rare that I spend time on a weekend with anyone at all and, during the week I am unable to discuss my sitch with anyone as the girls at work do not yet know about it.
Yesterday felt so warm and safe, H working here with me as we always did. H gave it everything in the garden, which told me more than anything so far - he also said "if I didn't care, I wouldn't be here, would I?" ..... that gave me hope, hope made me speak my mind and in doing that, I shot myself in the foot.
My H always encouraged me to talk openly and honestly about my feelings. I never did. I bottled things and would then explode. Now that I am revealing more about the way I feel, he just kicks in to runaway faster mode. It's so frustrating.
I don't know how people even look toward the future. I just know that I don't want a future without my H. I hope that it never becomes my reality. He says that he misses me less as time goes on ... I just don't know how to turn that around.
Hi Nell,
I know what you mean about H being a good man and realizing that he must be hurting and lost to get to this place. That is what I have had to come to realize as well. Like you, H and I had lots of conversations in our 19 years of M about how much we abhorred A's and infidelity... about how we saw it destroy other families, etc. He had always been so reassuring that he knew he could never, ever do that... And here we are. I am still reeling. He swears it has only been an EA not PA, but I don't know what to believe anymore.
I agree with Sanderika... for whatever my opinion is worth... lol. I have noticed consistently that when I am able to take all the pressure off and emphasize the good of our home, our family, our life... we make progress. Any talk of OW or R sets us back big time.
Time and patience... so true.
He doesn't miss you less, he is just getting used to being away from you. If you work really hard on yourself and be very smart in how you deal with it, it is possible to change that. Next time he comes home, give him something to miss. No R talk/ It would be okay to to talk about some history between the two of you probably, good memories I mean. Just try not to let it lead to an R talk. STAY AWAY from that for now as long as you can.
Chin up, you are doing great things for yourself. I don't talk about my M to my friends at work either. I would feel like I could never get away from it if they knew. I have selected only a chosen few friends to confide in, those who can be discreet and will have my back no matter what happens.
Take this time alone to make yourself the best you you can be, Nell!
Oh Sanderika - you are the sweetest and I so value all your kind words (((hugs))).
I trust that what you are telling me is right. I shall REALLY try so hard next time - I must see H as the lost lamb and look after him ... even though that brings harsh words from Gucci.
I WANT to hear what H has to say and about why it is that he's so unhappy ... I do think that he is totally infatuated with ow - tells his family and one of our friends that he loves her. He believes that she is his future and I am not. That's a hard thing for me to hear. I have asked him to talk to me about the 'difficulties' but he continues to say that I won't want to hear it and I guess that I do shut it down as I am fearful for what it is that I will hear. Next time, I shall try to face that - what you have said about the tramp taking my H away is quite true. Yesterday H said that he does not allow anyone to bad mouth me (meaning bimbo, I presume) and he said that in the same light, he will not allow me to bad mouth back. He defends her by saying "there is no such person as bimbo - that's your name that you have attached to her" .... I just could never bring myself to say the real name and I shudder when I hear it, or see it on a name tag on a woman in a store. It makes me want to vomit. (Glad that we all use annonymous names here)!
I wanted to say goodbye properly last evening. H worked so hard and deserved more than the way I left things. I just had to run away from him - if he saw my inner rage (which he did), then he also saw my inner misery, which I did not want him to see. I also wanted to reach out for him but I knew that I would be rejected and that would have been twice as hard to cope with.
I've got a lot of growing still to do Sanderika. I am hopeful that if you can have turned it around with your H, then I can do it too. I hope that when I write stuff here that I am portraying the real facts - I certainly feel that I am. It's so difficult for me to know though as H often sees things differently to when I relate stories. That means that I could be telling you all this and it's not how he sees things at all.
Funnily enough, yesterday when we were buying coffees, he was hanging around the candy stall and showed me several things which seemed to amuse him. I don't know what that was all about, even though I made a saucy face at one of the products and said "I know what I would like to do with that" ... no response.
Later, when we were in the garden and I had the hose to water down the manure (ah, the romance of the story!), I flicked the water toward him, joking that I might have to spray him from head to toe - he just said "don't you dare" but was grinning! In the 'old days' we used to have such fun - he once painted my overalls as we renovated our first home and then we had a plaster fight ... I won't even tell you about the day that he literally boarded me in, under the stairs and then got an electric saw to make a hole to cut me out of my prison!! (Actually, we were boarding under the stairs to make some storage space)! All those things were such good fun.
I said to H that he should have brought a change of clothes and he said that it would have been a good idea. If he does next time, he's definitely getting the hose treatment!!!!
Nell,
I see problems in the sitch with the OW from your words in the previous post. Honest.
He may think he loves her. She comes with baggage and mark my words is controlling and demanding and insecure. She is looking for a meal ticket in your H.
I would bet money that this is beginning to wear thin with your H. Your H is questioning his rash choice. He is testing the water by coming around to see you. Give him the unexpected. If he receives what he dislikes he will not give it second thought to return.
If you treat H right you will gain tons of knowledge about his feelings and current state of mind. If you want this information you can get it if you show H you can be trusted and that you are compassionate and sympathetic to him.
Do not be afraid of what you hear. He is in a MLC. Remember your own advice to Lost Rabbit back at the beginning of her sitch: "believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see". These words are so true it is scary.
When H and I talk of the OW I say "she or her" I never use her name, to me she isn't human and doesn't deserve the respect of a name. Behind the scenes and to everyone else OW is "White Trash B*tch".
Don't be hard on yourself. We have all done what you are. We also all have second guessed our H thoughts, wants and current state of mind regarding the sitch. You won't be able to stop this behavior as long as you are involved in this. Use it wisely instead.
You do get to a place where your behaviors and choices are better for the sitch than when it all started. It is from knowledge and experience and they are valuable tools in dealing with the MLC H.
You have heard the line: "Fake it til you make it" It applies here. This is what we do. You have to learn to bury your pain. You have to learn to bury your rage. You have to learn to bury your unhappiness and misery. You have to learn to bury your depression.
You have to learn to show H the sweet, loving, wonderful, irresistable Nell.
Trust me when I tell you, If I could turn myself around you can. If I can regain a relationship with my H, you can. I have a ways to go here....this will be a work in progress for a long time. It can be done. I truly believe you have reason for hope after reading your post. I would not tell you only what you want to hear. My dear, the work has to be yours.
I am headed off to bed, I will check in with you tomorrow.
Have a good day, keep the PMA going, you have to.....
(((((Hugs)))))
Sanderika
Sanderika, thank you for your advice to Nell... it is very helpful to me as well!
Sanderika - *sobbing*
I'm glad that I just came back to check on my thread as I was all for sending H an email. Now I don't think that it's such a bad idea, it just has to have different content. I need to tell him that I am prepared to listen to his troubles - whatever it costs me emotionally. Behind the scenes, it will be the only way that I can think of to start fighting fire with fire.
That tramp evidently has his ear and I am convinced that he honestly believes it's where he has to be ... he's looking for jobs interstate and when I tell him that he should go, he agrees that it is what will happen but the timing is not yet right "due to circumstance". It's him being short, blunt and mysterious. I need to root around a bit and find out what I am dealing with. I need to know what "due to circumstances" actually means. If you are right about bimbo (and I pray that you are), I probably will have a sporting chance. Now that I know she is in the game of bad mouthing me and he is not putting up with that, that's at least one up to me, eh?!!
Sanderika, my C believes that H is not done and that we have plenty to work off. I believe that too. My friends back in the UK have always commented that we are the 'perfect couple' and yet H now has no belief that we can turn this around. I told him that he would have to want to and he says "that's just it - now you are getting it - I just plain don't want to". I mentioned to him that I had plans to alter his Wedding Ring, which I have, and he said "that's fine - do what you want with it - it doesn't matter to me - it's yours". That cut me deeply. I retaliated with "then I could also take my Wedding Dress to the Salvo's I guess" and he said "likewise - it's not like you will wear it again" and I acknowledged that he was right - I shan't ever get married again. He laughed and said "I think that you might but you would have to have a new dress". My heart was breaking with every word.
Yesterday I mentioned to him that I had invited him previously for coffee/breakfast and that he had declined. He said "you only asked me twice" - I corrected that it was three times actually and told him that 3 times was enough to be refused and so I gave up. Was that him asking for another invite?? I'm wondering now if I should invite him again?
Reading your thoughts, and many others, putting that together with what he said about not making plans until after Christmas and trying to get him to talk to me about ow, I see that as buying me a few weeks more to get his attention. If I can get the convo going with him, and I think that I MAY be able to, that would put me back on the racing grid, would it not? Once I'm back there, I could have a sporting chance, even if it's a slim one. Better to be in the race than on the subs bench or in the Sin Bin, I suppose.
Thank you again - my tears have stopped and I can feel the PMA starting to creep back in.
Hey, I just noticed that I have been crying again lately - this is good! I was the Barney Rubble of the tears department until very recently ... does feel better to be able to let it out - try as I might before, I could not. All cried out? Ha! Annie Lennox, eat your heart out!
Patience, dear Nell. Although it's hard to see through the forest, this process IS changing you, and for the better. Your husband notices. It takes time. Patience!
Tulsa Time - so good of you to drop in. Thank you for your encouragement. It's in the depths of despair that people tend to gather around and I am blessed with all that look out for me here. It's why we must pay it forward when and where we can.
Well, I decided that I was not going to let myself be put down by yesterday evening's events. I sent H a quick text (not pursuing!) to say that I hoped his day was off to a good start with a nice lie in (which he was desperate for) and that his back wasn't as sore as mine is ... that the studying (for his project that we discussed yesterday) was going well.
Back came his response "good lie in - back in half - up to my neck in the studying" .... I left it a while and then replied that the gardens were worth the effort - they look good. Said that I was unable to help with the studying but that I could willingly help with his back - and an emoticon with a wicked grin to follow! Nothing returned but he is up to his ears in studying!
We were debating yesterday on what day we had arrived back from the UK. I just found my last years diary and flicked him an email, not to disturb him again by text. He doesn't pick his emails up daily now, so it's likely to be Wednesday before he gets it in any case. Just let him know the dates that we were away and closed by affirming his almost-suggestion for the breakfast/coffee invite again "Have a good week at work and perhaps we will catch up soon - maybe fourth time lucky on the breakfast/coffee invite? " ... and so it is now left. Firmly in his court. If he doesn't initiate any contact, then I shall not either. Something tells me that he will ... though not for quite a few days.
I'm ready. He's already laid the plans out for doing the sheep sh*te run again ... probably another two days worth of work there and then there's heaps of excuses to visit, if he's truly looking for some. He didn't look at the pool and spa yesterday and, as regular viewers will know, they are his favourites to get sorted! I just have to get a trailer load of this Patience stuff ... I think that it lives next door to PMA .... anybody got an excess that they can sell to me??
As I read through your first posting of yesterday's details I could see so much of my early separation self in your reactions. You are appearing desperate and intense. I think you need to relax and detach but this will only happen with time. Be light and fun, the person H fell in love with all those years ago.
Overall, though I was pleasantly surprised by the day's events. There were plenty of positives from H.
Stay away from those R talks!!
Hugs,
Cas
Thanks Cas - pretty much what Sanderika said too. That's reassuring when lots of people agree!! I am increasing my PMA as the day goes along.
It's so hard not to be desperate and intense when you feel that you are losing the battle. Of course, you are right in that I should be light and fun - he's not going to respond to anything other, is he?
My friend just text me and I realised that I missed a trick yesterday. H said "you should turn the spa temp up" and I said "leaving it off for now, too expensive to run whilst I'm on my own" .... what I should have said was "yeah, crank it up, we will need a good soak tomorrow after all this work and you can sit in there with your books and have a study soak"!! Too late now but it's in my memory bank for next time! I can see so many opportunities to 'act as if' the next time I see him. Yes, I have to stay away from the R talk - I think that I can do that next time. One step at a time.
I'm glad that you heard the positives too ... I needed to know that they were there and not that I had just imagined them.
(((Cas)))
Patience is a virtue - will someone please hurry and make me virtuous?!!
Hi Nell...I hear ya on the trailer load of patience... sounds like the best choice to now leave it in his court. Oh, it is so counter-intuitive isn't it? so hard....
Hang in there, be strong!
It is RW - the most difficult dance steps that I have ever had to learn.
Thanks for all the support!
You're welcome Nell.. thanks for your support too!
One great way to balance it, when their LL is AOS and yet you suspect infidelity (or even if they're just walkaway) and you don't want to "pursue":
Do an AOS -- one that's likely to be important to them -- but NOT the one that they told you to do.
In other words, ACT -- don't RE-act.
Be "leading."
Just find something to do, and DO IT. It doesn't even have to be big. Just something that says "I care for you," and that conveys love to her in HER love language.
Also, if they ARE wayward or walkaway, I wouldn't do this more than maybe once or twice per week
Puppy
Well guys, I've just completed a BIG AOS for my WAH. I'm not sure that AOS is his LL but I'm hedging my bets.
H mentioned yesterday that his expenses were late coming in this month and that he was a bit strapped as mortgage day approaches. I've just transferred his share of the mortgage AND the bills to our joint account from my own account and emailed H such:
"Hi H
FYI, I have transferred $xxxx to the joint account, just to take a bit of time pressure off you until you are paid from your expenses (November payment)".
Hopefully, he will value that and not feel that I am shaming or pursuing him by financial means. We briefly discussed it as an option yesterday but he felt that it would be OK. I said that I would not be comfortable if there was any doubt - I don't want us to be overdrawn. He said that it 'should' be fine.
Seeing Puppy's quote made me decide to act. This is a pure hearted gesture before ANYONE calls me on it! I just hope that H sees it that way too but to be honest, I don't think that he would even care. Money has never been a driver for him.
In doing this, I am assured of my mortgage and bills being paid on time and H knows that the pressure is off him. I hope that it doesn't backfire now!
This is the first big thing that I have struck forward with and yet it also says to H, "I still trust you". Yesterday, I foolishly told him that I didn't, so I hope that this makes up for that faux pas and he sees it for what it is. Genuine.
Crikey I go to sleep and look what you get up too lol! Clocks gone back here too so got an extra lushus hour.
Lots of wise wise words and comfort here, was quite worried about you. (()) Its great you have managed to turn it from the negative to the positive so quickly and I do think the AOS is really sweet and kind and will melt a little corner of his heart. Im really trying to get H to the quiz with me had planned it saturday morning but no go as he was off. Although it does sadden me that I dont really know what his LL's are!
Will catch up with you later x
Oh yes Rabbit - once I strike, I strike fast and furious!!
Glad that you approve of my AOS .. I shall await with baited breath to see the verdict from H ...! It felt good to be able to do it for him as I have been the one that's been so reliant on him for money since giving up my job last February. He must be feeling some sort of pressure release now that I am self-funding again.
Thanks for being so concerned about me - it's what is done here so VERY well - not to mention in the burrow! I have finished off that bottle of wine this afternoon and nursed my aching muscles. Was thinking about H's comment yesterday in asking me what I had planned for today and perhaps I should turn up the spa temp. I reckon that was a hint which I missed. Still, that won't hurt him! Perhaps it was an 'overlooked' 180 and he's now reeling from my rejection of him??!! Crazier things have been known, I'm sure!!
When is the quiz that you wanted your H to come along to? Next time you see him you could have a little quiz of your own and maybe that's how you find out what his LL is?!!
I forgot that the clocks were going back in the UK. My computer shot itself forward an hour here but as we are not doing the Daylight Savings thing in WA, I had to manually put it back to where it should have been - not before having changed most all of the clocks in my house and then feeling a bit of a cuckoo myself, when I realised!!! Had to turn on the TV in the end for Foxtel to finally confirm what time it was here in Perth. Normally H would have spared me all of that - it was just done.
Getting off soon. Been hanging here a bit too much today, as you can tell from my posts. Back to work tomorrow so catch you in the evening if not before, in the burrow :o)
Geez Nell, I'm not sure where to start here... I could sugar-coat it but that would not be doing you any favours as I see it.
STOP!
I am frustrated because I see what you are doing and it reminds me so much of me before I found DBing and I really do believe that the first months when the spouse leaves are the best time in which to reconcile and you are wasting those by doing things that DO NOT WORK over and over.
Your h came round today/ yesterday to test the waters with you, at his instigation. You are looking to place that small seed of doubt in his mind that he is not doing the right thing by walking away. Honestly, do you think your actions yesterday did that or do you think they reinforced his ideas?
This is the time you need to look at your actions and start doing some 180s. Not just in the pursuing stakes but in being really honest with yourself about your actions in the relationship.
I asked him if he missed his home and he said "home ... yes, house no". He went on to say that he felt that I had forced his hand in moving out of our home because my rage was getting worse. I asked him to imagine how he would feel if the bomb had been dropped on him rather than vice versa. He said that he understood but was not prepared to tolerate such.
I am thinking of this in particular. I know that when they are in the midst of an affair they say things to make excuses, however what are the things that may have been small before and he has blown up to justify his leaving. Change those!
Thirdly, you had relationship talks ALL day. Why? You made leading relationship comments all day and you 'tested the waters' constantly. Why? You know that you are not going to like what you hear and that talking about it reinforces their views rather than changes them.
Maybe this rage thing is something to work on with your counsellor?
Lastly, in the 24 hours since he has left you have called him, emailed him and texted him. Now, if he doesn't feel pressure from that then I don't know what.
He feels life with ow is a better choice for him and I feel that the water is running out of my tub far too quickly.
(((Nell))) I know that feeling so well. I used to think of to as grains of sand running through my hand. You know the only thing that stopped those grains was active DBing. Getting a control of myself and realising I could carry on letting my feelings rule my actions and lose my h, or I could start using my head. And as soon as I started using my head and doing WHAT WORKS regardless of my feelings was when I started to get a grip again.
I totally believe you can do this. Do some homework, look with clear eyes at what works and what doesn't work. And you also need to look at your pursuing.
SD_Foundgirl posted this on your thread back in August. just thought ou might find it useful again. Both these ladies saved their marriages.
I'm going to copy a post from Jen_Jam that helped me tremendously when my sitch was fresh. Read and reread it; follow her advice.
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Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 965
Loc: Surrey, UK
OK, also wanted to post what worked for me - most of it will be a rehash of DR, but I thought I'd put it here as a real world example.
JenJam's Top Ten DB Tips:
1. Don't panic. No-one ever made a great decision when in panic. You WILL panic, it's natural, but take NO ACTION when you are in that state. You have to do whatever it takes to calm down before you can tackle ANYTHING.
2. Don't depair. No-one ever got divorced in a week. Divorce, although too easy these days still take time. you DO have time to turn things about.
3. You first step is not to rebuild your R. Of course it's your ultimate aim but it's not going to happen first. Your very first step is to put the seed of doubt in WAS's mind. They have been unhappy and they consider D to be the answer. It's your job to show them that maybe there is an alternative. And I stress show. There is little you can do to talk them out of this beyond sympathising with their unhappiness and saying that IF D will make them happy then you won't stand in their way. If they are receptive to that, you could go further and say something like "we have had many good times together. Please think about this and make sure it really will make you happy. It's a lot to throw away".
4. Once you have said this back off and let them consider it. They need time. Your next step is GAL - no begging, crying or anger AT ALL. Your task is now part 2 of sowing the seeds of doubt about D - SHOWING WAS that things can be different. Now is the time to step back, put aside your ego and all thoughts of how unfair it all is (that just leads to bitterness, which is poison to a M) and REALLY look at yourself and decide if you are worthy of being WAS's spouse. I agree a M breakdown is rarely one sided but at this juncture it's more useful to look at your contribution. Look at yourself. Under a microscope. Decide if you've changed - are you happy with yourself, for you? Make changes. Now is the time for 180's. This stage also takes a long time too.
5. Time, time, time - it really IS on your side. The situation will not resolve as quickly as you hope. Don't compare your situation in terms of time with others'. It's very tempting to say "well, their situation is similar to mine and it took them 6 months so it will take me 6 months". Each situation is unique and needs its own timeframe.
6. Set your goals and decide on your first signs. This part took me a couple of months to really "get". I had to REALLY read chapter 6 of DR from "I'm discouraged" then go and review my goals before I saw any results.
7. Develop a duck's back - water slides off it. Patience + lack of panic = success.
8. Set goals for yourself as well as the R. Decide on what you want to achieve for you alone and reward your success. I know this sounds like step 4 again but it's more a case of making the changes rather than lamenting how awful you are. (I felt awful about myself for some time - bad and guilty. I did me no favours whatsoever, ended up with me feeling resentment. Much better to look forward than back - as Michelle says, look for solutions and take action)
9. Keep in mind that your actions could be frightening to WAS - you are not reacting in the way they wanted. They had this D all mapped out in their head and it's not panning out the way they thought. This has the added benefit that it leads them to think "if this isn't going the way I planned then maybe it isn't right", but it will take them a LONG TIME to come to this conclusion, to let go of their D comfort blanket. You can help them by being consistent with the positive changes. If you revert back to the you they find unacceptable then they feel perfectly justified in continuing with the D.
10. This is going to be tough on you. In the ideal world, couples in crisis would sit down together and negotiate together and accept that change was possible. In reality, you are very unlikely to resolve your problem in this way, almost certianly not in the early stages. You are not giong to have the luxury of a spouse who will listen to you and accept what you say.
You are going to be in extreme pain. You have to find something to soothe this. To have your WAS would work like a shot, but you ain't going to get this in a hurry. Do whatever it takes to comfort yourself - write a diary, see friends, go places, take the kids out if you have them, take exercise - anything. Your aim is to find something which makes you say "well, the rest of my life may be turning to sh*t but at least this part of it's OK". It acts as a time out for you and relieves the stress.
OK - as I said this is what worked for me - if you're reading this then maybe it's different for you. If you're readin this and thinknig your own sitch is impossible think of this - would you give yourself false hope right now? Chances are you wouldn't. So why give yourself false despair? There are layers in a M crisis and you don't get the benefit of seeing them all at once.
_________________________
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married) Sept 07 2005
Seperated Sept and Oct 2005
H moved back Nov 2005, things still bad
May 2006 - found this site
Oct 2006 - H recomitted
April 2007 - I began to feel normal again
---
_________________________
Me: 39
H: 42
H had EA from 2/06-9/06
Bomb 5/06
Piecing since 9/2006
I set clear boundaries and expectations for H: 3/2008
5/2008: Improving
7/2009: Still some boundary crossing, exploring next steps.
OUCH ....... but thanks JCJ. I know that I have let the weekend run away with me and I know that everything that you are saying is right ... glad that you didn't sugar coat it.
I guess that my driver has been his complete silence and then when he does pop up, I feel that I have to use it to my full advantage - which actually turns out to be my disadvantage. I have tried all the DBing that I can muster, it gets me no-where. Yesterday, I guess that I just felt desperate and seeing ow's hairband in the car really set me off. I've spoken to C about the rage and I do now internalise it but the messages come out ... calmy and cool but with the sting in the tail which I am feeling. H has not seen me raging in a long time.
I did test the waters, you are right. I didn't like what I heard. It's panic that makes me do it. I just want this to all go away and I want my H back. I feel like a spoiled brat saying that as I know everyone else here wants the same thing. I guess that H has never denied me anything in the whole time we have been together and now that he has totally got hold of the reigns, I really don't like the control.
Thank you for reminding me of SDF's words. I am going to read and re-read them. I am also going to go totally nc with H for a few days so that things can settle down. I don't want to go dark on him - that definitely does not work and just serves to anger him.
JCJ - I know that you are right and I treasure the fact that you continue to keep coming back, despite my being such a bad student!
OK - tomorrow is a new week and Nell has a lot of homework ahead of her, right?!!
(((JCJ)))
Oh,(((((Nell))))), honey....
Something here I read today bothers me ......
What did you really expect would be H's comments about the wedding band and the dress? You backed him into a corner. His defense was so obvious and strong. Right now he doesn't care about those things, it's all trivia. To the MLC man they are symbols without any meaning at all. He isn't giving them one second of thought. They mean nothing to him.
His biggest problem isn't about a ring or a dress. His biggest problem is the same as yours....what do I want, how do I fix this, do I walk away, can I walk away, help me please.....My guess is he thinks about this a great deal. In fact I know it, my H has admitted it. There are some days he can't think of anything else. Yours is the same....
By you bringing up those in the manner you did, those are fighting words. You were bucking for a fight, as I see it. H gave you words to hurt you because your words hurt him.
You have to figure this out right away. You are into this now 5 months....your H should only be seeing a "new" Nell. You have to get really serious here. Your H is testing the waters...everytime you backslide in his presence you do confirm his choice. Think about it in terms of time as well. You and H are on different time periods. To you 5 months has been a lifetime. To your H 5 months is a bleep in time, he is still seeing the Nell he left, it is like yesterday to him. I know this as true, words from my H again....
I want you to listen to us seriously, I want you to take our advice and really internalize it so that when you are in H's presence you have the tools to get through the visit. Another thing, this has to be permanent. You will not fool your H, he knows you all too well. YOU HAVE TO BE GENUINE AND CHANGED PERMANENTLY.
Nell, think of it as do or die. Think of it as your 1 and only chance to fix this. Tweek your DB techniques. Stop the R talks, unless he instigates them. Stop the pursueing. Stop the rage. Stop picking fights. Stop dredging up past happy times, your H can't hear you right now about that. He can only see the bad.
Your H is searching for his own answers. You can turn this around. You have to change your actions.
I probably sound like a broken record. You need reinforcement.
Everyone here is giving the same advice, words are different. We have been at this something like 16-20 years combined. Look at the experience at your fingertips. Heck, that's as long as you were with H.
I understand that we can only control our own behaviors. Our spouses are of the alien world. Our spouses thoughts and emotions can be changed. If you think about this, seriously, you have so much to still offer H. You have more than anyone. If, your H can be led astray by a trollop with baggage, Nell you CAN get him back with time and patience and consistent positives. Stop the backsliding. Stop losing ground. Stop showing him you haven't learned anything or changed.
I don't hand out 2 x 4's very well. I would love to steer you straight. We all would. Please give this weekend a huge amount of thought. Repair what's broken. You DO know what needs to be fixed.
Sanderika
Oh ((((Nell))))
Everything that is being said to you makes so much sense. It is a wake up call for me too as I keep making the same mistakes over and over. I am re-reading the advice given to you by these others and looking at it in my own sitch. I am cheering you on as I brush myself off and start a new day with determination to get back to and stick to DBing if it kills me! lol I know you can do it... do what you need to maintain PMA. I think that must be part of the trick... figure out what helps you maintain a PMA most of the time and do what works for YOU as well as the R.
Don't panic... time is on our side. That will be my mantra for the day.
take care,
Rocked
Hi Nell
My you have been a busy busy girl and I had a lot of catching up to do.
Nell, I have to say this YOU HAVE TO CHANGE, CHANGE AND CHANGE YOURSELF SOME MORE. Your H doesn't want to see the Nell he doesn't want to be with.
Your H came around to see if there were changes to test exactly as everyone has said he did, don't forget mine kept doing it as well. Your H needs to see permanent positive changes. Work on your rage in particular Nell, you have to bury it or lock it away, anything that removes it, he will see through you if you aren't serious. Your H wants to come back to a loving, calm, fun Nell.
Your old R and M is gone, treat this as a brand new R. How would you attract and draw to you someone you want to spend the rest of your life with Nell????
You have a lot of thoughts to process, take your time, no more pursuing and NO MORE OLD NELL.
((((((((Nell))))))))
Hey Nell,
Wondering how you are? Getting worried.
(((((Hugs))))
Sanderika
Hey there Nell. Hope you're busy out there galing.
Cas
Hi ladies, just to let you know Nell is just having a bit of time out to collect her thoughts, she is fine and sends her best wishes and thanks for all your kind thoughts and dont worry Im keeping my beady eye on her too lol!
Thanks for letting us know. I was getting a bit worried about her. Tell her Dudess sends hugs.
Hi everyone
Thanks for your kind wishes and for thinking of me.
I'm feeling very vulnerable and weak this past few days and I can't be here right now. Can't explain it but just need some time away, even though I am getting myself ready for what I know will be a tough weekend - my thoughts are self destructive at this time and I feel quite battered by everything - of course, all of it to do with H and his behaviour toward me.
I just wish that I was strong enough to tell him to rack off but it's not what I want ... I just don't want to feel like this, either. It's five months to the day and I am just plain running out of steam.
Will be back soon.
Hugs to all, Nell.
hugs and warm wishes Nell. Hope you soon feel at peace again.
Cas
(((((Nell)))))
I know how you feel. Do something nice for yourself today. Pick yourself a flower, eat some chocolate, go to the cinema, cuddle the cats. Look after YOU x
((((((Nell))))))
We know exactly what you are experiencing.
Take good care of yourself while you are away.
You will feel better over time.
Sanderika
Take a good break, Nell. We'll still be here when you're ready.
Best thoughts and prayers headed your way.
Hi Nell
Thinking of you ((((((Nell)))))
(((((Nell)))))
Just want you to know I am thinking of you this weekend.
Sanderika
Hello forum friends!
Just a quick line to say that I am thinking about you all but I'm not yet quite ready to return. I have been lurking around but not spending a huge amount of time here and I think that has done me some good. I had a very successful session with C last night and I have adopted a new strategy that helps ME in dealing with my thoughts. I now write a daily diary .... it's helpful to me and my C.
I have another big weekend coming up - well, Saturday at least. H is coming around for Sheep Sh*t Shopping Mark II. This time, I'm determined to get it right, whatever the cost. He has to see me in control this time - I must not let him or anything else get to me. I am getting stronger, I am finding the New Nell .... !
Peace, love and happiness to us all :o)
((((Nell))))
Thank you for posting.....We were all worried about you.
You sound very strong and full of PMA!!!! Atta Girl!!!!
You CAN keep it going, once on a roll.....it's easy!!!!
Positive Thoughts are being sent your way along with Best Wishes for a wonderful weekend with H!!!
Take care my friend.....
Sanderika
Thank you Sanderika - it's so empowering to know that I have good friends around on here ... it gives me strength.
The PMA is starting to poke it's head through - I just hope that it hangs around!
Painting mental pictures for how things really are is quite helpful to me right now. Imagining my H on a pedestal is all I have ever done - knowing what he is doing to me allows me to take him off that position on high and now it's not quite such an attractive picture any more. That's not to say that the feelings go away, it's just easier to deal with his bad behaviour as it no longer shocks me in quite the same way.
Hugs to all - please don't worry about me! Your energies are needed for all of our sitchs! Be back soon :o)
(((((Nell)))))
That's the best part of this BB, the friends we make. We are from all corners of the world and we have come together to unite. Initially because of the same reasons, friendships are spawned as a result.
Another great part is that we all have the energy to help others, it's paying forward. It feels great!!!
With a lot of posters, the friendship continues off the BB. It's fun reading their threads when the topic is not only about DB!!!
Warm thoughts to you, (((((Nell)))))....
Sanderika
Hello everyone and thanks for sticking around during my little break from the board - I am lurking, however!
Another great part is that we all have the energy to help others, it's paying forward. It feels great!!!
It's great that people pay it forward and, whilst I don't have the energy to do that right now, I wonder what some will make of my latest meeting with H, which happened on Saturday. It was another sheep manure day and he arrived late so by the time we had been and got two trailer loads and returned the trailer, time was marching well in to the afternoon.
Unfortunately, my big mouth ran off with itself again, despite telling myself to shut up. I got to the point where I thought, "he's done so what's the worst that can happen now? He may as well know just how I feel about things" .... and then he can go. However, when we got back and were up to our elbows in weed pulling and manure laying, I goaded him to leave and yet he did not. He stuck around, put up with my calling him on so much and then even told me things as he saw them.
I asked:
Nell: blah, blah, blah and you are having an A so what can you expect?
H: I am not having an A - that's where you are wrong and have been from the start
Nell: No H - you ARE having an A - we are still legally married and that makes you an infidel - you are having an A
H: OK - have it your own way, if it makes you feel better, but I am NOT. I told you our M was over long before I did what I did. (For long, read three weeks).
Later:
Nell: Will you help me with some of my C homework?
H: Of course I will. What is it?
Nell: Well, how will it be for you when this is all over and we never see one another again?
H: Who said that would happen?
Nell: Well, it's what you want, isn't it? You want your own new life and rid of me
H: When did I say that?
Nell: Well, you haven't exactly but it's what you allude to
H: Well don't put words in to my mouth then - I have never said that we won't see each other any more and I am not the evil monster you continue to paint me as.
One of my questions to H was to ask him how he felt if I were to go out with someone else. He replied that he would be happy for me - he had no issue with it. My heart turned to concrete. I have no intention of going out with anyone but it hurts like hell to think that he wouldn't give two hoots if I did. I guess it just counterbalances his actions and then he could call "tit for tat" on it. I shan't give him the satisfaction, however tempting it was to let him know that I was going out on a date (fake it till you make it)!
Another question that I asked of him was why he will only communicate with me electronically. He said that it was because phone calls have gone really badly for us since bomb day and it's a waste of time and money. Rabbit suggested that I leave a happy message on his phone the next time I decide to call ... it will show him that I can have a decent phone call with him ... any other ideas? It's my interim goal, to return to phone calls which are good and don't end up in one or other of us hanging up. I guess, of late, I have only phoned him when I need some urgent advice - like when the water pipe was broken - and then, when he can't or won't help, it's no wonder I blow a gasket! I think that I need to call when I am calm and things are going well.
One of the big positives of the day was that H had removed the two items that ow had left in the car - he knew that it really p'd me off last time he came to pick me up and I felt that it was a small effort on his behalf this time - but at least he was acknowledging why I got angry before. I notice that quite a bit of my stuff remains in the car, even though he removed all the 'obvious' stuff!!!
We had lots of good and bad moments throughout the day, H even cracked a joke a few times. I gave him a bag of goodies (as per Sanderika's advice) on his parting and I waved him a fond farewell as he left. His parting shot was:
H: See you next time then - not that we have anything arranged
Nell: Is that a bad thing?
H: No, not good, not bad, just neutral
I waited until this morning and sent a text to H from work to say thanks again for his help at the weekend, it was nice to see him and that we had worked really hard together, for which payment is a great looking garden! I asked him a question but no response all day. Don't know whether he replied when I left the office early but I will have to wait until tomorrow to see.
Ahh.. the famous "pull back".
Nell, hang in there... People on these boards keep reminding me to not believe any of what I hear and less than half of what H does. When he talks about being fine with you seeing someone else (as my H keeps saying) it is likely that would not be the case if that were to actually happen. WAS apparently don't usually even know what they want, and they just happen to use the "script of the day" that justifies whatever current thoughts or feelings or actions are going on for them.
stay true to what you need to do for you to get stronger and more confident.
i am working very hard on not letting everything hinge on H's actions, responses etc.
take care,
Rocked
OK people (especially for rockedworld, as I promised):
Just back from C and had a most excellent session. Her wisdom really came out at the end and I wanted to get this down before I forget it. I then have to dash off to bed. I really need to sleep on this advice but right now it excites me ..... and as I look back on Saturday, as C made me, I see that it was only when I told H the absolute truth about how I felt the week before - wanting to hiding my rage from him - that I noticed a moment of hesitation in him. This gives me more hope than I have felt in a long while - I am going to share it but you must think about it, as I still have to - it may even be DB'ing in it's broadest term, or it may even contradict it, but it works for me right now:
"Playing games with H tells him one thing. He knows you and that means that he knows who you are - 'faking it' and 'acting out a pretence' tells him that you are being untrue to yourself - if you are not being true to yourself, how are you being true to him? This instils fear in him - he is scared and he will run away. It is not what works.
You may not want him to see your vulnerability, hurt, anger, bitterness or rage but to tell him in a controlled fashion that these emotions are what you are feeling will do far more good than harm. He will understand that you are telling the truth and therefore he will have nothing to fear from your open conversation. Playing games makes him fearful. Pretending makes him fearful. It is not the real you. It is not the true you. It's not where he wants to be, or stay.
The truth is what will bring him closer and show him that you are being genuine. The truth will allow him to want to spend more time with you - maybe. He is afraid of your games and each time you invite him, he declines as he is fearful of who/what you are trying to be.
You don't have to reveal all your thoughts - you don't have to be utterly transparent but you will achieve more in being open about where you are sitting than by all the games that you have been acting out with him to date - and have they worked? The answer is a resounding no".
Just back from C and had a most excellent session. Her wisdom really came out at the end and I wanted to get this down before I forget it. I then have to dash off to bed. I really need to sleep on this advice but right now it excites me ..... and as I look back on Saturday, as C made me, I see that it was only when I told H the absolute truth about how I felt the week before - wanting to hiding my rage from him - that I noticed a moment of hesitation in him.
Did you write about this somewhere? What happened? Did he say something or was this non-verbal? What did you take this to mean?
This gives me more hope than I have felt in a long while - I am going to share it but you must think about it, as I still have to - it may even be DB'ing in it's broadest term, or it may even contradict it, but it works for me right now:
But will it work with him?
"Playing games with H tells him one thing. He knows you and that means that he knows who you are - 'faking it' and 'acting out a pretence' tells him that you are being untrue to yourself - if you are not being true to yourself, how are you being true to him? This instils fear in him - he is scared and he will run away. It is not what works.
"Playing games" is a pejorative term. I prefer to think of it as strategic.
"You may not want him to see your vulnerability, hurt, anger, bitterness or rage but to tell him in a controlled fashion that these emotions are what you are feeling will do far more good than harm. He will understand that you are telling the truth and therefore he will have nothing to fear from your open conversation.
Playing games makes him fearful. Pretending makes him fearful. It is not the real you. It is not the true you. It's not where he wants to be, or stay.
The truth is what will bring him closer and show him that you are being genuine. The truth will allow him to want to spend more time with you - maybe. He is afraid of your games and each time you invite him, he declines as he is fearful of who/what you are trying to be.
Look back at your results Nell. It seems to me that the times he has come closer, stayed longer, is when you have left him alone at least a little bit and have not worn your heart on your sleeve.
You don't have to reveal all your thoughts - you don't have to be utterly transparent but you will achieve more in being open about where you are sitting than by all the games that you have been acting out with him to date - and have they worked? The answer is a resounding no".
All what games? I haven't seen you play the game much. If you had been DBing and giving him the gucci consistently and getting nowhere, then of course try something else.
What I have observed is that you have implemented only a little bit of those strategies and very inconsistently. When you have some small amount of success, you immediately start the pursuit again.
It is nuts to say that DBing hasn't worked, giving him the gucci hasn't worked,
when you haven't been doing it. It's like exercising and eating a low fat diet one day a week, and sitting on your butt eating fried fish and ice cream the other six days and then saying your weight loss plan isn't working.
IMO, there's a time in relationships for vulnerability and honesty, and there's a time for playing the game of love. When your H has left you for another woman, I say let the games begin. (Have you noticed how much men love games of all kinds?) I do think it works better when you actually adopt the mindset yourself, when you really believe that you will be fine without him and you are moving on. Then you aren't pretending.
"Playing games with H tells him one thing. He knows you and that means that he knows who you are - 'faking it' and 'acting out a pretence' tells him that you are being untrue to yourself - if you are not being true to yourself, how are you being true to him? This instils fear in him - he is scared and he will run away. It is not what works.
You may not want him to see your vulnerability, hurt, anger, bitterness or rage but to tell him in a controlled fashion that these emotions are what you are feeling will do far more good than harm. He will understand that you are telling the truth and therefore he will have nothing to fear from your open conversation. Playing games makes him fearful. Pretending makes him fearful. It is not the real you. It is not the true you. It's not where he wants to be, or stay.
The truth is what will bring him closer and show him that you are being genuine. The truth will allow him to want to spend more time with you - maybe. He is afraid of your games and each time you invite him, he declines as he is fearful of who/what you are trying to be.
You don't have to reveal all your thoughts - you don't have to be utterly transparent but you will achieve more in being open about where you are sitting than by all the games that you have been acting out with him to date - and have they worked? The answer is a resounding no".
EK, I think your C is trying to tell you to feel your feelings and if something is bothering you then bring it up. Be authentic, be true to yourself and be courageous. I think alot of people are afraid that we won't be loved if someone else could see into us. We all have fears, doubts, frailities and quirks. We also crave intimacy - physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally. So to get there we need to allow the intimacy (intomesee) to happen.
Cheers
(((((Nell)))))
I believe I have told you this before.....
Your H can "smell a rat", sort to speak. They can see right through a fake and phony facade. They can tell when you are ONLY "playing games", as you put it, as a ploy to get them back. That is because your fear and desperation shine through. It is because In Their Opinion, they left because YOU wanted them to. Your behaviors and actions were unloving and most likely they believed you were pushing them out. This is why they are resistant to trust your changes.
With that being agreed upon.....When I tell you to change YOU, remove the unattractive side of yourself, I am telling you to lose the traits you have that drove him away in the first place.
Strengthen the traits that H loves about you. Practice the positives and ditch the negatives. Practice the positives until they take control of YOU. By doing this, your H will see the woman he loves. He will see the genuine effort you have made to BETTER yourself. He will recognize the changes and accept them as true and lasting. This takes a long time. It is worth the effort, trust me.
These are a couple of examples for you:
I see your rage as a problem.
I see your sense of humor as a positive.
Nell, finish the list for us. List your problems, YOU want to change. List your positives you want to nurture.
During all of this.....DO NOT lose sight of your values, morals, convictions. Remain true to yourself. It is ok to stand up for yourself and uphold your ideals and POV's. It would be unfair for anyone to expect you to crumble and fall and become a puppet through all of this. You are Nell. Your H still loves you. Your H left because HE HAD TO, not necessarily because HE WANTED TO. I am sure this decision to leave was very hard for him. He gave it a great deal of thought and looked at it like this was his only way. I have had this conversation with my H. These words, he has told me.
Nell, come up with the reasons H left. List them out. Work on repairing the problems as he viewed them at the same time you are working on you. I think you will see a correlation between your behaviors and H's actions.
I DO NOT call treating H well, playing games. I have been posting on another's thread and her H has been gone 3 years now. He has just revealed....one of the reasons he wants to return to her is that she has remained a constant friend for him and treated him with kindness and respect. She has never turned her back on him through this entire ordeal. She has DB successfully for herself in the process. My H has mirrored some of the same. He has thanked me for being nice to him. I know he loves me. I know he values our friendship. This is stuff you have to think about.
IMO, your H is not ready to end the marriage with you. Your H would have implemented legal proceedings by now if he was.
OH, your H does not believe he is having an affair because in his eyes and mind he IS NOT WITH YOU anymore. It is still an affair because you are married. This is something they choose to believe because it diminishes their guilt. Do not listen to this cr*p. My H has been quoted as saying the same. It is one of the songs all WAS and MLC dwellers sing. Forget you heard it!!!!
Time is on your side. You must use it wisely and effectively.
Learn how to remedy the sitch. It can be done. It is not game playing if you truthfully want your H and marriage back because they are most important and precious to you.
(((((HUGS)))))
Sanderika
Nell,
I am just catching up with your predicament. I have to agree that it's your motives and goals that make it a 'game' or real. Of course most of us here want to save our marriages. There are many good reasons why we should. But, one thing that DB makes clear is that we have to be in a place that we can give positive contributions to our relationships. Therefore, the GAL and keeping some detachment to get off the roller coaster where our emotions are tied to what our spouse does isn't a game. More like a sine qua non. Without this we are not going to experience the type of personal change that will allow us to have true happiness and build more stable relationships. Now if only I could do this as easy as I spout it.
The thing about WAS with MLC is that somehow we got to the place in our relationships that we didn't recognize the process and we weren't 'safe' enough for our spouse to trust. Granted, their perceptions are warped. That is were I am having trouble deciding what to change. My W has some valid complaints and some of her stuff is clearly hallucinations brought on by middle age crazies. But, which are which? I don't know about you but sometimes it is hard for me to tell. So all I can do is really look at my behaviors in relation to my values and change the behaviors that do not reflect what I want to be. If this makes me more attractive and 'safe' for her to invest her emotions in, great. If not, at least I am more centered.
As you tell me, time is on your side. ((((Eskimo Nell)))). There are a lot of people out here cheering for you and supporting you.
dtlewis
Nell, are you there? I am worried that you haven't posted in a week. Can we do anything to lift you up (other than our continued prayers)?
You are in my thoughts.
DTL
Nell is fine she is just taking a break from the board at the moment! I will pass your wishes on to her.