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Posted By: aliveandkicking Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:16 PM
My dream last night was a literal one, you know the rare dream that feels "real" and you wonder "did that happen" when you wake up?

Since H was at a party until past midnight with S9 at the home of friends of his who never really got me (cultural and financial differences)...of course I needed to follow up with a dream of walking into that party to retrieve S9 because it was too damed late. And it was weird and sucked and I felt so alien and people looked at me weird. And certain women looked like they might be someone who might be with him or fancy the possibility of being my sweet son's step-mom. And H was pissy and rude and embarrassing and I went to friend who was having the party and started to explain why I was there to which he responded "I am HIS friend, not sure why you are talking to me"...and there were other people there who I used to know as friends but now felt worse than strangers...

And, of course we argued over S9...in a juvenile way, as H taunted me and delighted in my frustration.

WTF?

Ironically H texted me yesterday asking if S9 could watch a certain movie he knows is inappropriate...then he apologized (we JUST agreed not to text or call unless it is urgent). But, ya, he's really showing me who's in charge now.

S9 called me to tell me they were going out to this party (he should have been getting ready for bed because he had been out late two nights in a row and was exhausted)...so of course it unnerved me (win for H).

And then H texted me at 11ish that I'd have to pick up S9 later this morning because they were still out.

And then H texted me past 12 to tell me about how friend was talking about something he used to make fun of me for (something related to social consciousness) and H pointed out that I was saying that 10 years ago and how ironic it was...

So around we go. AND, S6 reported something to H that was grossly exaggerated and could get me in serious trouble when it comes to custody...I see what he is doing and it frightens me. He is so enamored with his dad and he sees me as the impasse...may as well just tear my heart out and eat it with a nice chianti. cry

Still being productive. Feels like taking a grain of sand off of a giant mound every time I do one little thing and the wind seems to blow in two more grains for every grain I take...but enough with my metaphors.

Dishes
Exercise
Shower
Bank Deposit (woohoo $60)
Work a little if there's time
Pick up the cuties

I have to admit, I am a zombie in motion assuming I will awaken to life if I just stay in it.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:19 PM
Oh, and BTW, my topic is a wish for "dreams of a new normal"...if I could see it, I could move toward it.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:20 PM
And some fava beans, too, I expect.

It's terrible how easily kids can become part of the problem. The Disneyland Dad. A nightmare.

You're going to have to set boundaries on these young children. It may need to go to Lawyer-Land, because the more H gets away with the bigger a "bad guy" you'll be when you finally rope it all in.

Don't forget -- your corner is full of supporters.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:26 PM
Quote:
I have to admit, I am a zombie in motion assuming I will awaken to life if I just stay in it.
exactly! aka "fake it 'til you make it." good technique. just keep moving. you're doing great, actually. I know it doesn't feel that way, but you are.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:48 PM
Remind me not to run into you when you're feasting upon the flesh of we living humans!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 04:51 PM
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
Remind me not to run into you when you're feasting upon the flesh of we living humans!


Ha, that took me a second. I'm a vegetarian zombie... grin
Posted By: mac-ct Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 06:19 PM
Quote:
My dream last night was a literal one, you know the rare dream that feels "real" and you wonder "did that happen" when you wake up?


Alive that is so bizarre! I've just had one of those which I posted in my thread. Hope it's a premonition of things to come......

Nodded off and saw and heard my W so very clearly.
She was walking in through the front door as usual - our little Jack Russell rushed to W who said "hello mommy" as she normally does.

Absolutely bizarre.

Loosing it?

Not on meds BTW!

Mac
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 09:27 PM
Yes, hopefully yours is a premonition. Mine, let's hope not.

When I picked up S9 which was made complicated by H not being where he said he would be, I caught up with them. S looked exhausted. H wanted to know if I had time for a drink. I said no. H told me how nice I looked and wanted to chat and drag it out. H hugged me and accidentally touched the boobs (you know the routine). Then he said he needed to talk to me and S9 was right there and I said I need to go, not with him there and H continued...wow, did that digress fast (money, what the kids are going through, of course what other people think on his "side") and ended with H saying "Look, I was trying to be so nice, hugging you and everything..." I said "I don't want your dirty filthy hugs." Oops, lost it a little.

Picked up S6 from friends' house. He got little sleep and was immediately miserable and complaining about wanting to go to his dad's...so sad. He is just miserable.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 09:37 PM
And now he wants to come work in his office tonight. Aaargh.
Posted By: Sara Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 09:47 PM
I have a cat like that. He meows at the door for me to let him out. So I open the door. Then a few minutes later he meows again and I open the door. He pokes his head and two paws into the house and lies down on the doorjamb. Nope, he's not going anywhere, and you're not closing the door.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 09:55 PM
Thanks for the laugh Sara.

Well, if I tell him he can't work on his computer, I can't very well complain about him not giving me money.

But, I see that until all of our things are physically separated, there will be excuses.

In the narcissist paradigm, H is wounded because of my disapproval and seeks it desperately.

My part, I'm so wounded by my own childhood, I can't seem to close the door on a possible R...and saving the marriage. But, I realize that I need space and boundaries so desperately.

I am super pissed off right now. And he succeeds at making me question, Gee, what's my problem? Kids freaking out, no money, no job, and H constantly reaffirming that it was my fault...why am I not a shiny happy person around him?

Anyway, this is getting old.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 11:40 PM
Oh and why do I listen, absorb, answer his nonsense????

That is the first order of business.
Posted By: kara Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/19/09 11:42 PM
Habit?
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 12:02 AM
A&K,

Teflon.Try it just a little. Even if/when it's getting to you don't let any of 'em, especially the boys, see it.

Why can't you say no to coming by? Will he really hold out on the money if you do that? Are you sure?

AlexEN
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 12:26 AM
He has jobs that need to be done. I gave him a time that he was not happy with but I stuck with it. If the kids see him, it will be mayhem. They are almost normal right now.

So, at least I stuck with A boundary.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 12:27 AM
Originally Posted By: kara
Habit?


Yes. And, I am still invested in getting him to see the "truth" and understand why I don't respond to his glib affection...

Same as it ever was. So, yes, habit.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 03:45 AM
Well, I think I may be working more this week...I can't say I'm crazy about the constraints of shuttling the kids around, racing to work, trying to get it all done...but, welcome to the real world, right?

And, my philosophy right now is DO more. So I am.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 06:08 AM
Well, I was very pleasant with H tonight (anyone see the movie Sybil crazy) but when he suggested leaving his laundry...uh, no. And then he lingered around sifting through things to take, I told him now wasn't the best time for this and then as he persisted, I said "Ok, I think it is time for you to go now" and I went and opened the front door and led him out." All very civil but the feeling of having him casually plucking items just unnerved me so.

I did good.

He called me after to thank me for letting him work here. I thanked him for working. And that was that.

He called again but didn't answer, haven't checked the messages yet.

Tomorrows topic- Is WASness a form of temporary insanity? TBD.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:23 AM
AAK -

Just got caught up on you. Wow. You're dealing with a lot. I can't think right now, as I need to go back to sleep, but my thoughts are with you and the lil' guys!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 04:38 PM
Thanks MB...I appreciate the thoughts.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 06:42 PM
So my topic for today, the WASs temporary insanity, will be postponed...

Going to work tomorrow and the next day.

Had to get some $$ from my dad for food. Ouch.

Found an email I had sent H pre-bomb...was really sad. I was so loving and direct and clear about wanting to hear him and for us to focus on making things better.

I really feel that an OW showed up some time in September.

I know this isn't supposed to matter. It is in the past.

But when and how do you give up on A) getting the truth and B) Getting WAS to see it?

I really do want to understand how people let go of that or if there is some peace in getting the truth.

The last time H left and came back, getting the truth was like a nice warm bath and I felt so weightless...relieved. It really helped to see it clearly and to have H acknowledge it.

Anyway, lots to do because I am going to be working the next couple of days.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 06:56 PM
when and how do you give up on A) getting the truth and B) Getting WAS to see it?

When? When you need to. When you recognize, and can admit you recognize, that A) there is no "truth" and B) WAS ain't gonna see anything WAS doesn't want to see.

How? Any way you can.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 07:17 PM
There is a truth as far as when he met OW and whether that was a factor when H chose to leave and explains why nothing I said or did helped or got through to him.

But I get your point.
Posted By: The Wifey Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 08:34 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


I really feel that an OW showed up some time in September.

I know this isn't supposed to matter. It is in the past.

But when and how do you give up on A) getting the truth and B) Getting WAS to see it?

I really do want to understand how people let go of that or if there is some peace in getting the truth.



A) Who's truth would you get right now? Yours, his or the mailman's?
B) He has to figure out the truth for himself and he can't do it right now.

Peace, the only one holding you back from Peace right now is who? You, my dear. I'm sorry, it hurts, it stinks right out loud, and you want to scream so he can hear you.

Let it go right now. Work on you. Work on you. Work on awesome, one-of-a-kind, wonderful you.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:12 PM
I guess the mailman might be objective...although he's a guy so not sure.

I've decided that I can be pissed off and still do what I need to do.

It is just too much right now.

I am supposed to work but now he is telling me he can't pick up the kids because of his broken limb (which is because he put off dealing with an old injury)...

I am going to have my water and power disconnected if I don't come up with more money than I am able to right now.

F8ck it. I'm disgruntled but I will keep going and I will make sure to stop and smell the roses.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:17 PM
I hate to say this but I think you need to see an atty at once and get some sort of motion filed (not sure how your state works so that might not be the correct term to use) for some immediate financial support from your H.

You have children and right now you are needing to borrow money from your dad to feed them and now your water and power might be shut off. That is not acceptable and your H needs to be a part of this equation.

I would call the water and power company and see if some sort of emergency arrangement can be made. Call legal aid and see what can be done.

I know its hard to take those steps but you need some stability for the basics (food, power, water) and a legal agreement might be the best way to go.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:20 PM
AAK,

I agree with the L consult. Depending on your state, you should be able to have $$$$ released quickly to pay yours and the kids expenses. And that includes $$$ for a L.
Posted By: The Wifey Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:20 PM
I have to say I agree.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:27 PM
I agree too except that he is broke and I want some assistance dealing with the emotional part. I am trying to make some money to pay for therapy so I can handle proceeding with the legal.

If I thought he had any money, I would file immediately but he doesn't.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:29 PM
Call the L right away. In some states support amounts are based right off of formulas and taken right out of paychecks (or bank accounts).
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:45 PM
According to him his account is overdrawn by $600 and I believe him. He has his mom driving him around and taking care of him.

I do need to see L...I just want to know what I want my next move to be.

And dammit, I'm hormonal...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:50 PM
Oh, and his work is freelance.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 09:57 PM
And the piece de resistance of mind f*ckery is...H just told me that he thought I had changed but clearly I hadn't because I am doing the same sh*t I used to do...I had called him and expressed my aggravation with the situation and that I have no way to pay these bills.

Yes, I was bitchy and whiny and naggy and blah blah blah. Ultimately I apologized for going off on him but I want him to try to understand the position I am in and have been for a long time...anyway, this is pathetic. I'm continually trying to get him to understand and I don't know why.

I have to move into the present and stick to the bottom line.

The T that I last spoke with said that my filing would be another narcissistic injury and that maybe I should discuss it with him first...I need to have the emotional support to do this and to figure out how.

And, I need to STOP trying to get him to get it. And, stop being a miserable person just to show him what he's doing...
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:06 PM
I understand wanting the emotional support before you make any legal moves but this is becoming an emergency situation.

I cant say how your state works but if his freelance job(s) dont bring in the income you need for the basics (food, water, power) the judge will tell him awfully quick to get a job doing whatever (fast food, temp work, yard work) to start contributing. And if he fails to comply I would imagine his wages will be garnished.

This is a mean thought but if he has so many rich friends why doesnt he hit them up for money? This is the time to put your pride aside and use any and all resources available to you. Dont be shy about going to a food pantry or any other county resource that can give you some financial assistance or stability.

Quick money ideas: yard sale, short sale on Craiglist... if you have any old or broken gold most all reputable jewerly shops are buying it since gold is at an all time high right now. Also, look on the "gigs" section of Craiglist as there are always people looking for help for a job that may last a day or two.

We are here for you and will give you all the support we can!
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:08 PM
He might be out of bucks right now but maybe not next week. Freelance, seasonal, or whatever, The Man will probably take a look back 6 months to a year, or look at tax returns to figure on average how much he makes and how much he should pay each month for his children.

Don't be afraid. This isn't an anger/getting even thing, this is just what State says is in the best interest of children. W and I had little trouble with this one. We together went to the state website, filled in the blanks, and got the official amounts. We didn't file it (we trust each other on this) but we follow what it says nonetheless.

Take the emotion out of it. Make the call, get it done and you'll have fewer things to worry about (like water and electricity shut offs).

I don't know a lot about Narcissistic Personality Disorder other than what I've read in Wikipedia and the DSM-IV but you're about to get your power shut off. Right now you need to take care of YOU and your children, not let it be all about him.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:10 PM
AAK:

I agree w/the ladies on the legal stuff. He may not HAVE anything, but he'll certainly have to come up with it! Let him sell some of his freakin' souveniors he took out of your home! Let him BEG and BORROW from HIS relatives, hot shot friends, OR he will be held in contempt, and forwarded on to avenues to collect. Seriously, he won't offer help, and you can't live like this. You need to know what's coming in and when, and adjust accordingly.

HUGS TO YOU!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:44 PM
You guys are so awesome. I have asked H to detail what is coming in as far as money...there should be a big check this week. I mentioned today that he should look into getting a job; I will be doing basically manual labor to make a little money. He might need to do the same...I guess he has only looked at how to make money getting paid his exorbitantly high fees.

I would like to get the big check and then go into L to file. Aaaah.

I know that I need to move into a cheaper place with the kids too. Trying to figure out where that will be.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:46 PM
And, not to give him too much credit but he does give me whatever he has...supposedly. It has not been nothing. Ultimately, eventually he has paid enough to eek by.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:57 PM
He is going to deposit some money so I can pay the water and power bill. He said he hustled.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 10:58 PM
I apologize if I'm out of line, but it seems awfully suspicious that he comes up with just enough for you to eke it out. Are you SURE he's turning over all of what he can? As Smiley would attest to, out of all the possible outcomes, for him to coincidentally come up with the barebones minimum and that to be all he has, is mathematically unlikely. But, if he had more than that available, magically he could always come up with the amount that barely covers your needs. Pardon my cynicism. You know him best, but seeing your words in print raised my eyebrows.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:06 PM
Yes, I get it, he told me this morning that his account is overdrawn and he needs to pay that and he will give me the difference which will pay the w&p bill and a couple hundred extra.

I get what you're saying but this is not inconsistent with how things were when we were together. We have been strapped for so long.

My biggest frustration is that now, not only are we struggling as usual, but we are having to pay for two households; which of course is why some people choose not to do this separation thing when they can't afford it!

Anyway, looking at the past months bank statements, it seems on the up and up. I have no reason to suspect he is savvy enough to think I am checking those...

Again, this is how we lived before and it continues. In way over our heads and always struggling to catch up.

I know I need to do something about it. But, like I said, we will have to move.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:07 PM
Oh, and no, AlexN, of course you're not out of line. Bring it on.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:09 PM
Ok, you got that covered and you had a talk with him. Good job. I would still call your L pronto and explain your sitch. Make sure the amount you are getting is what the state says he officially owes and not just what he can eke out at the moment. Take care of business.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:14 PM
Honestly OD, I am getting more than he will have to give me. Our overhead is just too high. I need to figure out where we are going to live and I have a pretty good idea of what I can expect in terms of support.

I can live on a lot less, just have to make the move (which of course is a bit complicated).

I had one visit with L. He is a relative and is tough and will not be much support emotionally, though he is one of the best. I have to be ready and steady and have my emotional support in place so I can manage all of the emotional aspects. Yes, I admit I am stalling. I am really terrified and nothing the Ts have said has appeased me. And, neither of the two I spoke to at length about this thought I should file for D.

The T I want to see is very expensive. I am trying to determine if I should go to one of the others or scrape up + beg my parents to help me pay for the one that is comes the most highly recommended. I admit it, I am really afraid.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:32 PM
Overhead is too high? Why? Need to fix that or you'll drown or slowly bleed to death financially. (I know these things - Take a look at my signature.).

L is best at what? If you need the emotional support then maybe he isn't the best for YOU.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/20/09 11:38 PM
I can understand and relate to being afraid. Can you expand a bit on what is making you feel so frightened and maybe we can help?

One suggestion I have (and this is JMO) is an attny is there to guide you through the legal process, protect you and make sure you get all you are entitled to. While its always a bonus if they are supportive and emotionally available to help with the process, their job is to navigate and practice law. Of course find an attny you are comfortable with but an attny wont be a counselor and if they are, your bill will rack up awfully fast.

I know this is scary. My gosh I know. Trust me, I was so scared I ended up giving myself a panic disorder and I dont say that in jest - I was so terrified I drove myself to a complete mental breakdown but we wont let that happen to you.

Right now I am officially typing out all our agreements for my attny and it feels like poo. I get it.

Can you help us understand why you feel frightened and really break it down? I will stay on the computer for a while if you need to talk!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 12:01 AM
I am driving but I will reply later. Thanks for being here.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 01:25 AM
Ok. Hanging with S9...for anyone who has two kids, you know how yummy it is to hang with just one, especially the older one. So calm. smile

Been thinking a lot about these posts.

I need to trust my instincts more. I think once I am clear and ready, I can propose a settlement that H will likely accept.

My fear is based mostly on being responsible for taking action. Being held responsible. It seems moms are always held accountable and dads rarely (when the kids grow up and make their assessments). I wanted to stay married. I wanted that life for my kids and I get why it cannot be but it is scary to take the initiative. My hope was to be more conscious than my parents were...and now, it feels so similar.

So, my wish has been to get help in separating my sh*t from this situation and make choices that are objective and pertinent to this life and not the life that was so many years ago. I feel that my wounds are opened and unlike H, I want to be more aware of how and where from I am operating. I still feel too in the past and I am afraid to make choices from that place.

Make sense? I want some sense of wholeness before making huge decisions. But, perhaps it is unavoidable and it is the going through it that will facilitate the transformation I am looking for. Or perhaps I just need to accept that I am trying to be super human by attempting to divorce myself from the life that made me who I am.

I know this is heady stuff but it is the truth.

I realize right now, I can't wait for the transformation. I have to keep living and doing and transforming simultaneously. It is like I've wanted to hit pause, deal with my feelings and then come back to real time. As a parent, you don't get to do that, right?

So, I humbly accept that I have to do this now and from where I am however imperfect I may be...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 01:25 AM
25, I would love to connect.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 01:59 AM
AAK,

I am praying for you and keeping you in my thoughts. Tough decisions, and it is not fair to you. But, you have to be strong for your children. Who else will right now?

I wish I had a magic answer for you (and everyone else here). But, I don't.

Just know you are not alone here, even though you probably feel like you are.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 02:04 AM
I'm feeling a bit better. Thanks. The posts here have helped. I have to stop expecting myself to do this "just right."
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 02:11 AM
AAK,

I think all that anyone should expect, including yourself, is just do the best you can.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 03:10 AM
Honestly, maybe I'm a perfectionist but "the best I can" kind of bugs me. It is what H says all the time and while I believe he believes that, I think sometimes we have to be a little more introspective and thoughtful about choices that effect so many people.

I do get it, I do need to give up on finding the "right" way through this but one of us has to put on the old thinking cap.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 03:18 AM
Not suggesting otherwise. Just don't be too hard on yourself.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 03:21 AM
I know. You're a sweetie. I really get that.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 03:27 AM
Nothing wrong with being tough on yourself as long as you trust yourself, too, (and you're no harder on yourself than you are on anyone else)... wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 04:41 AM
Originally Posted By: AlexEN
(and you're no harder on yourself than you are on anyone else)... wink


Yikes, I hope I'm not that hard on others...something to think about.

Feeling good right now. Productive. I have a meeting regarding a project I am excited about and I am working this week. I am also putting pen to paper and coming up with a plan for what I want in a settlement.

Cr*p, work just got canceled. Que sera...hopefully they'll reschedule.

Communication with H is going better though he sent me a totally inappropriate photo of S6...now it is just stupid and thoughtless, not something that would preclude him from seeing his kids. As I told my parents when the reacted with horror, unfortunately, idiots are allowed to have kids.

As for where I wan to live. My dream has been to get out of the city (but still technically within the county so I don't think he can fight it). My qualms have been a) moving kids to a new school on top of everything else and b) distance from my parents and H. Well, S9 (who was my big concern) expressed enthusiasm about the idea (loves nature and the locale) and talked about how he loves making new friends.

So, I just have to consider the distance factor and that my family may be aggravated. In my heart I think it would be a much more peaceful and healthy lifestyle.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 04:55 AM
Here's CityGirl's link to thought-stopping:

Thought-Stopping
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:10 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Overhead is too high? Why? Need to fix that or you'll drown or slowly bleed to death financially. (I know these things - Take a look at my signature.).

L is best at what? If you need the emotional support then maybe he isn't the best for YOU.


Overhead is mostly high rent. H adding another place makes it impossible.

I am looking for places now.

L is a relative and for now is free and one of the "best" in town. May not be the best for me if things get touchy but for now he is a valuable resource.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:11 AM
Ok. I'm just going to say it...25 MLC...I miss you. Was it something I said? Through all of the gobbly guk, I'm getting somewhere here, finally.
Posted By: mac-ct Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:27 AM
AAK,

A very good morning to you. I read your last entry "somewhere else". I'm glad you took your own advice and rather doing something you feel comfortable with.

Maybe there's a moral in your words? wink

Have a great day.

HUGS!

Mac/Ken
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:34 AM
I'm totally lost. smirk I got the "somewhere else" I think but...
Posted By: mac-ct Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:48 AM
Oh poop - I think I lost track with who sent what.

I seem to remember something along the lines of:

I'm having trouble keeping up with all the forms of communication

FB, multiple e-mails, IM, texting etc etc etc.

Forgive the ramblings of someone just waking up and trying to get to work.

Appoliogigies wink


Mac
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 06:03 AM
yes, that was me.

I love the "Oh poop"...way to avoid offending anyone. wink

I just didn't get the moral- oh wait, you mean too much nonsense with H? Or in general?

Good Morning.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:33 PM
AAK - You think you need to see a T? Sounds like you GET IT already! I like to read your though process, as I don't think along those lines at all, and feel I SHOULD! Way to go!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:46 PM
MB- Can you extrapolate a bit? I'm feeling so low and I want to know what it is you think I'm getting right...
Posted By: Kalni Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 05:59 PM
A&K,
I have been reading along. This is the hardest it can get for you, it -very slowly-changes from immense pain to deep sadness and that brings acceptance for a few things (not necessarily the end of your M)- which -acceptance,is not the easiest of all processes eek, BUT trust me, it will be OK in the end.
I digress, just wanted to say, it gets better...
You are strong,
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 06:14 PM
Thank you Kalni. Thank you.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/21/09 11:46 PM
Breathe...
Posted By: mindfull Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 12:12 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
My fear is based mostly on being responsible for taking action. Being held responsible. It seems moms are always held accountable and dads rarely (when the kids grow up and make their assessments). I wanted to stay married. I wanted that life for my kids and I get why it cannot be but it is scary to take the initiative. My hope was to be more conscious than my parents were...and now, it feels so similar.

So, my wish has been to get help in separating my sh*t from this situation and make choices that are objective and pertinent to this life and not the life that was so many years ago. I feel that my wounds are opened and unlike H, I want to be more aware of how and where from I am operating. I still feel too in the past and I am afraid to make choices from that place.

Make sense? I want some sense of wholeness before making huge decisions. But, perhaps it is unavoidable and it is the going through it that will facilitate the transformation I am looking for. Or perhaps I just need to accept that I am trying to be super human by attempting to divorce myself from the life that made me who I am.

I know this is heady stuff but it is the truth.

I realize right now, I can't wait for the transformation. I have to keep living and doing and transforming simultaneously. It is like I've wanted to hit pause, deal with my feelings and then come back to real time. As a parent, you don't get to do that, right?

So, I humbly accept that I have to do this now and from where I am however imperfect I may be...


AAK - The bolded parts are what is good. I see a lot of you in me, or me in you>!?!? From an organized mind/heart perspective... "I will do x, when y, and z are done, accomplished, handled!" To some degree, you won't be able to make decisions based on too many, if any, other variables, ONLY what you have in front of you right now.

You have two darling boys, with a loving, responsible mom, who is in over her head financially, and suffering from a broken heart.

Well, you can't all of a sudden be financially secure, SO, how can you get on that path? And, what can you do WHILE seeking to become financially secure?

AND, you can't raise the boys all alone, without their dad behaving like you would like him to, SO, what can you do to make the situation more acceptable to you? Visit with them at your house? Shorter visitation periods? Etc...

LASTLY, you can't just heal from a broken heart overnight, SO, for now, this is the one thing you'll need to, probably, just give time.

My thoughts for the day!

I should listen to myself!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 06:17 AM
I got a lot out of your post MB.

I'm making lists for each facet of my sitch.

I am in a lot of pain right now as this tearing apart has been so slow and I just feel left over and over again when he comes here and takes more things and leaves. He will not be coming tomorrow because I was a wreck tonight when he left. I have asked him so many times to not take things or linger in the house, that he can schedule a time. Tonight, I just couldn't handle it. And with the kids here, I didn't want to yell or cause a scene.

Big decisions and where will live is top of the list. I am pretty clear, just nervous about being a bit further from my parents and maybe isolated. But, it would be a fresh start.
Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 07:32 AM


Ring any bells A&K???


Here are the Compensatory NPD criteria according to Dave Kelly:

Personality Types proposes Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Disorder as a pervasive pattern of unstable, covert narcissistic behaviours that derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem,
beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by six (or more) of the criteria below.

The basic trait of the Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Type is a pattern of overtly narcissistic behaviours (that) derive from an underlying sense of insecurity and weakness, rather than from genuine feelings of self-confidence and high self-esteem.

The Compensatory Narcissistic Personality Type:

Seeks to create an illusion of superiority and to build up an image of high self-worth [Millon];
Strives for recognition and prestige to compensate for the lack of a feeling of self-worth;
May "acquire a deprecatory attitude in which the achievements of others are ridiculed and degraded" [Millon];
Has persistent aspirations for glory and status [Millon];
Has a tendency to exaggerate and boast [Millon];
Is sensitive to how others react to him, watches and listens carefully for critical judgement, and feels slighted by disapproval [Millon];
"Is prone to feel shamed and humiliated and especially (anxious) and vulnerable to the judgements of others" [Millon];
Covers up a sense of inadequacy and deficiency with pseudo-arrogance and pseudo-grandiosity [Millon];
Has a tendency to periodic hypochondria [Forman];
Alternates between feelings of emptiness and deadness and states of excitement and excess energy [Forman];
Entertains fantasies of greatness, constantly striving for perfection, genius, or stardom [Forman];
Has a history of searching for an idealised partner and has an intense need for affirmation and confirmation in relationships [Forman];
Frequently entertains a wishful, exaggerated and unrealistic concept of himself, which he can't possibly measure up to [Reich];
Produces (too quickly) work not up to the level of his abilities because of an overwhelmingly strong need for the immediate gratification of success [Reich];
Is touchy, quick to take offence at the slightest provocation, continually anticipating attack and danger, reacting with anger and fantasies of revenge when he feels himself frustrated in his need for constant admiration [Reich];
Is self-conscious, due to a dependence on approval from others [Reich];
Suffers regularly from repetitive oscillations of self-esteem [Reich];
Seeks to undo feelings of inadequacy by forcing everyone's attention and admiration upon himself [Reich];
May react with self-contempt and depression to the lack of fulfilment of his grandiose expectations [Riso].
Posted By: Coach Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 02:00 PM
Quote:
I am in a lot of pain right now as this tearing apart has been so slow and I just feel left over and over again when he comes here and takes more things and leaves. He will not be coming tomorrow because I was a wreck tonight when he left. I have asked him so many times to not take things or linger in the house, that he can schedule a time. Tonight, I just couldn't handle it. And with the kids here, I didn't want to yell or cause a scene.


Change the locks. Ask someone to help you with this if needed.

Quote:
Big decisions and where will live is top of the list. I am pretty clear, just nervous about being a bit further from my parents and maybe isolated. But, it would be a fresh start.


Your parents will still see you and be in touch. Isolated - where your moving doesn't have roads, phone service, internet, sidewalks, schools, churches, restaurants, post office, hair salons or people?

You will handle it. Sometimes it was the only way I could keep going was to say it to myself.

Cheers
Coach
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 04:35 PM
Yes. I've read a lot and discussed with Ts.

The real fun starts when you read about divorcing narcissists.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 04:41 PM
Coach- H does not have a key to the house. I let him come work in his office and he did not respect our agreement. Plus, I am obviously too wimpy about it for fear of being accused...and, especially when kids are on the scene, I am really in a tough position. So, I think my energy needs to be on getting my new place.

As for the move, I am pretty comfortable with the distance, just may not get the support I need from my family and will have to make a unilateral decision. Plus, it will put us pretty far from H and make visitation more difficult. I am not saying I should not do it, I am just cognizant of the variables.

But, I think we would be happier there so I am making some calls today.

It is also moving the kids to a new community and new school. It is a lot.

Right now, I am committed to one day at a time. I am very depressed (and hormonal, whoohoo).
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 04:46 PM
H often sends me emails at really odd times...2am, 5am, 7am (telling me he hasn't gone to sleep yet). I feel that it is very provocative and it unnerves me that he seems to never be sleeping. I don't know if it is pertinent but I keep all of the emails anyway.

I know I should not react. I almost want to ask him to please only contact me between the hours of x and y...just so I don't get those buttons pushed. Not sure he'd abide by it anyway.

Does anyone think it is consequential in terms of his mental stability?
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 05:14 PM
Quote:
H often sends me emails at really odd times...2am, 5am, 7am ... almost want to ask him to please only contact me between the hours of x and y

You're totally within your rights to do that. I used to send email to WAW at those times, but that's because that's when I'm at work. But she asked me not to -- because it unnerved her, as it does you -- and I was fine with that.

The other thing you can do is set the iPhone not to fetch but to only collect email manually. That way you'll control when you GET them, even if he sends them in the Dark o' Night.

Quote:
Does anyone think it is consequential in terms of his mental stability?

Does he also send them at "normal" hours? If he's just living La Vida Night Owl, that's one thing; but if he's always awake, always on -- well it wouldn't be the first time in H'wd that someone felt the need, the need for speed.... And that would most assuredly be consequential in terms of the functions of the old brain-pan.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 05:23 PM
Quote:
Does he also send them at "normal" hours? If he's just living La Vida Night Owl, that's one thing; but if he's always awake, always on -- well it wouldn't be the first time in H'wd that someone felt the need, the need for speed.... And that would most assuredly be consequential in terms of the functions of the old brain-pan.


Well, I got a text at around 2am and an email at 5 and he just called so, he seems to be up all the time. He makes a point of letting me know "I only got x hours of sleep..."

S9 told me last week that he was scared when he woke up and went in daddy's room and daddy was shaking and moaning and looked like there was something wrong with him.

I doubt speed because he does not appear to be speedy at all when I see him or talk to him. Plus, he is gaining weight...and he just called again and I have asked him to please email rather than call but I guess he's not so good with boundaries, you think?

Oh and I am not bothered by his communications when I am asleep, it is the time-mark that disturbs me. And seeing as he deliberately points out that he hasn't slept, I feel that it is a cry for help, attention, concern...anything.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 05:46 PM
I hope you're not awake to answer those late-night emails. You and your family need your sleep. Tell him you don't check your email late at night (and don't).

Consequential to his stability?

Hard to say from just a little snapshot but the, "Hey A&K, I'm not sleeping. It's OK to bother you day or night because it's all about me." seems to say something about his possible NPD

Divorce/separation is tough for everyone and some sleep problems are to be expected. However if it's really bad then it might be worth some attention. Sleep hours figure bigtime in mood disorders (that's why I'm required to track mine). Too much or too little indicates something might be changing (depression or hypomania). Likewise too much or too little makes those conditions worse.

O'dog ain't a psy - he's just has spent a lot of money on them. So the takeaway here is talk to your psy or his psy about it if you feel it's excessive.


Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 06:00 PM
Quote:
I hope you're not awake to answer those late-night emails. You and your family need your sleep. Tell him you don't check your email late at night (and don't).


No, like I said, they don't disturb me (wake me up etc), it is just that he is not sleeping that disturbs me (in relation to him caring for kids and even our financial future).

He just texted that the check we should get by friday will not come for 30 more days. I am f*cked.

I have not been this depressed since I was a teenager and my father died.

This is worse. And I am still reeling from the emotional estrangement as well as the reality that he cannot and will not put his family first.

I know I'll get through it somehow but f@#$%^^&&**(()))%##@@k!
Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 06:42 PM
I feel bad for you right now. It's a bad time for this to happen.

I don't know what your own work sitch is but nonetheless you can't be expected to do it all yourself.

Why don't we turn this around here. You're not f'd. He is! You were about to get your utilities turned off and he promised you vital $ by Friday. Now it's not happening for 30 days?! Tell him to step it up, Dad! Get out there and hustle something up. Temp. Shlep boxes. Sell something. Whatever. Get some income now and support your children.

You've got a lot of weight on your shoulders right now. Load some of it off to others so you can stay strong.

Call your L now and tell him/her this situation - you don't have to start a whole D, just tell him/her what's going on. This isn't right. L might be able to help in some way or guide you to resources and assistance.

Ask for help from friends, parents, etc.

You WILL get through it.
Posted By: mac-ct Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 07:05 PM
Hi aak,

orangedog is right. H needs to step up to the mark. This is not right any way you look at it.

I did for my W!
I had the BIGGEST wake up call when I got a call from the maintenance court saying my W was there in tears. She was a WAW with no money. Ahhhh - damn did THAT hurt me! And I felt great helping her - just didn't like the way she did it. I was expecting a talk to discuss.

But I understand why she did it this way - and I forgave her.

Spread the load.

Hang in there honey.

Hugs

Mac
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 07/22/09 08:03 PM
I'm going to vomit. I just spoke to my relative L. He would require a $5K retainer and $400 an hour. That's family.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Falling so fast... - 07/22/09 09:10 PM
All I wanted in my life was to be autonomous and now I have to go back to my parents who will give me help only in exchange for following their advice and subjecting myself to their mandates.

I wanted a different life for my kids than I had and right now, I just see more of the same in the foreseeable future.

I just feel like sh*t.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Falling so fast... - 07/22/09 09:19 PM
That sucks.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/22/09 09:56 PM
I feel that, given my philosophy about life that this is my responsibility and I am having a really tough time forgiving myself.

I don't know what else to say here as I'm just complaining so it is a waste of time.

Hopefully I'll feel better.
Posted By: Coach Re: Falling so fast... - 07/22/09 10:25 PM
Quote:
I feel that, given my philosophy about life that this is my responsibility and I am having a really tough time forgiving myself.


Love yourself first. If you believe you are worth it you will forgive yourself. We all make mistakes. We all sin. Forgiveness is the bridge from fear to love. A year ago I could barely look at myself in the mirror. I was ashamed, scared and lonely. The other part of my "I can handle it" mantra is that I had to look my self in the mirror, touch my chest with my fist and say out loud, "I love you Coach." All of my senses were involved. I needed to love myself first before I could give away my love. So corny but so powerful. It was a gift I gave myself. I just let you in on one of my secrets most people don't know about me. Alive, it's your journey to take, you can handle it.

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 12:43 AM
Cried for a few hours. Then got in touch with someone and got more information about selling something very valuable.

Hoping if I can get that fast enough, I can retain a lawyer. Parents are not really stepping up for that. Ok.

H's check will not be here this week.

I am picking myself back up.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 01:09 AM
hang in there girl. These emotions come and go.

{{{hugs}}}
Posted By: mindfull Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 01:37 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Then got in touch with someone and got more information about selling something very valuable.


Wedding ring? Might make you feel better to get rid of it!!!

AAK, this is really tough. Can you break this down into groups of tasks? Or groups of tasks by date?

Where will I live? Kids in a new school? H upsetting you? Utilities to keep on? Retainer for L? Etc...

Seems to me you need cash. I think that is main goal now, since H is NOT going to be able to provide it.

Oh, and start to heal your tender heart!!!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 01:40 AM
Yep, breaking it down...

Wedding ring was cheap. Engagement ring probably not worth much more but I think I'm making headway on some other things...

The heartache...well, I'm just going to keep moving through it.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 01:42 AM
Good job, friend.

Maybe you need a hot boyfriend half your age? (poke) j/k

Oh wait, I forget, we're the responsible ones!!!

I'm with ya!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 02:51 AM
Yikes, that would make me a cougar. shocked
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 03:22 AM
Grrrrrroowwlll!

One thing to keep in the hip pocket -- since Monsoor has not demonstrated financial stability or reliability in his chosen, er, "profession," a good attorney will be able to have him compelled to be evaluated by an independent vocational counselor -- no sh*t -- whose recommendations will be used by the court to determine whether Le Shmedlap can continue to star-gaze or will actually have to get a straight job.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 04:57 AM
Don't know SP. He makes decent money, not sure what they'll say. Gotta get a lawyer and for that, I gotta get $$ and once H knows my relative is not representing me, that is going to be a huge win for me because he thought I had that covered and was scared in his pants. This is a big loss for me.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:10 AM
H is aggravated that I don't tell him what my plans are with the kids when he asks. I don't ask him and I don't get involved in his plans. The kids tell me what they want to.

I don't like saying I need to pick them up at a certain time and get grilled as to why...

And, the longer the conversations, the more aggravating.

Am I wrong?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:11 AM
I'm so tired.
Posted By: goldeylox Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:19 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Don't know SP. He makes decent money, not sure what they'll say. Gotta get a lawyer and for that, I gotta get $$ and once H knows my relative is not representing me, that is going to be a huge win for me because he thought I had that covered and was scared in his pants. This is a big loss for me.
AAK-hang in there. The retainer thing was tough, I remember. My mom actually suggested I go to the credit union for a loan, can you believe it?!? Well, that's just what I did.
It's overwhelming, I know. One step at a time. God will provide for your every need. It's true. Peace.
p.s. Try not to concern yourself with H's opinion of your L. Your relative is not the only game in town, especially at those rates. Perhaps your R would provide a referral? Who would he/she not like to see across the table?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:58 AM
Thanks. I'm just wiped out.

I am not cut out for this cutthroat crap.

I don't care about stuff. I care about love, family, creation...

I don't want my energy going into this. Maybe I can find a way to do this in a way that doesn't feel sooo negative. Maybe back to my "speak softly but carry a big stick."

I'm just so pissed off at him, especially when I see my kids sad like they were tonight when I had to leave them.

Here's a little ditty-

too much weight
though nothing to see
just trying to sort the him out from me

I run in my sleep from the feeling of gone
wake up to the stillness and up on my toes
so the daggers and prickles wont penetrate my bones

And I hear simple songs
and it all seems so wrong
I spin faster than the earth
and I stay in one spot

little guys with tears
and I can't assuage
I can't make it better
watch the innocence just seeping out
through inquisitive and increasingly cynical eyes

I'm the one who nursed them
kissed the booboos,
appeased them
held them so close

And now as they spiral into an abyss
I do so parallel and toward my own
And watch them as we're falling
and reach for them
But they are just beyond
all i can do is watch and flail about

my babies are falling and i don't know where they'll land...
just hope to get there first extend my arms and pray I can break their falls.

And where is the big HE? The man in this bunch?
Not so eloquent but true, he is out to lunch.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Question... - 07/23/09 04:26 PM
Is it worth it for me to try a mediator?
Posted By: Thinker Re: Question... - 07/23/09 05:09 PM
A mediator is definitely the cheapest way to go.

I think it might be an interesting way for you to go. It would put your H immediately at a decision point - do I want to work on the M or do I want to work on D.

I think the first question out of the Mediators mouth would be "Are you willing to participate in this process to develop an amicable dissolution of your M" (or something similar)

After that, he or she would coach the two of you through a tough and realistic, eyes open decision making process - what are you going to do, where are you each going to live, how much money is needed, how much will be paid, the kids, everything.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:20 PM
"Am I wrong?"

No.

And there mere fact that Monsoor makes "decent" money is irrelevant. The court will look at all assets and liabilities. If Le S can make more money to meet his obligations, then that's what they'll make him do.

As to "win/loss" on the Relative Lawyer -- from my POV perhaps you might consider abandoning this "he wins" "I win" "I lose" frame. For one, it really seems to exacerbate your emotional turmoil. For another, it ain't over until it's over. For a third, it keeps you on the defensive. Remember that discussion a bunch of us were having on my thread about power? When Monsoor complains that you don't tell him your plans, you've got power and he's reacting. Classic narcissist, where it's got to be about him on his timeline when he wants. The more you confound that, the better off you are.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 05:41 PM
Repeat of what Thinker said. Mediation is MUCH cheaper.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
As to "win/loss" on the Relative Lawyer -- from my POV perhaps you might consider abandoning this "he wins" "I win" "I lose" frame. For one, it really seems to exacerbate your emotional turmoil. For another, it ain't over until it's over. For a third, it keeps you on the defensive.


Second this. I've noticed this "he wins/I lose" thing in your posts for awhile, and I don't think it's helping you one little bit. So, what Smiley said.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Falling so fast... - 07/23/09 06:39 PM
Nothing makes me feel worse than the "She wins, I lose" line of thinking.

Seriously, if I start..."she got this, she got that, she doesn't care..." then it's a quick road to anger and sadness.

We can't go there.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Support please... - 07/24/09 12:20 AM
I just called another attorney. I am going in tomorrow. I feel sick about it...enough analyzing or judging myself for my feelings. It is just who I am. To have what I thought was a lifetime partnership devolve into a purely legal and logistical matter...well, you all know how I feel.

S6 was a wreck today. My own dad was nearly in tears seeing how wiped out and sad he was.

Lots came out, particularly (after hours of berating me and screaming) that he misses me when he is with daddy, pause...and he misses daddy when he is with me and he doesn't miss anyone when we are all together.

We were a together family and it shows in the response of my children. That is the real tragedy, despite our times of dysfunction and turmoil our kids always knew we would get through it together...well, they "knew"...

I am ok. So wiped out, hard to have the energy to deal with a raving child. But he is now swimming with a friend and jovial.

He got so much out with me and despite my intermittent urges to drop him off with his dad and let him deal with it, I know that S6 needs to know that I am here and I can "handle it."

I need as much support as I can get moving forward and I consider you all my friends.
Posted By: aliveandkicking 25 MLC...are you out there? - 07/24/09 05:43 PM
Just hoping you'll come back around (and wondering if I put you off). I am taking action here and was hoping to perhaps connect and get your input on some decisions I'm making...

I hope you're well.

AK
Posted By: davidswife Re: 25 MLC...are you out there? - 07/24/09 05:53 PM
AAK,

I've followed your thread, but not commented much. I'm surprised you didn't have any responses yesterday - usually this thread is rocking!

FWIW, I don't think you "put anyone off" -- people do take breaks from the board from time to time. And with it being summer and all - vacations, etc.

Anyway, I'm glad to hear of your progress, and that you were able to connect with your son. Kids do know who can "handle" their stuff and who can't -- it's good that they have you. It'd be tough for your H to relate to your son's pain, being that your H doesn't relate to anything other than himself.

How are you feeling today? Do you have any plans for the weekend?

I'm sure your regulars will be chiming in soon!

Stacy
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Support please... - 07/24/09 06:01 PM
Hey AAK,

I was away from the boards motst of yesterday, and I missed your post.

Part of it breaks my heart:

Quote:
Lots came out, particularly (after hours of berating me and screaming) that he misses me when he is with daddy, pause...and he misses daddy when he is with me and he doesn't miss anyone when we are all together.


And part of it props me back up:

Quote:
I know that S6 needs to know that I am here and I can "handle it."


You are hurting, I know, but you haven't lost sight of what is the top priority - your son. Like you said, you have to be strong for him. Be strong, but feel what you need to (away from S) and get it out. It is a process.

I am glad you are going to see a L (I am one, so no mean jokes). I know it is not what you want to do, but it is what you NEED to do. Your H is being incredibly selfish right now, and you cannot rely on him to do anything one would consider to be the "right" thing.

Hang in there and take it one day at a time for now. It will not be easy, but it WILL get easier.

I am praying for you.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: 25 MLC...are you out there? - 07/24/09 06:02 PM
Thanks. It is just that I am really taking action now, doing things that perhaps I should have done long ago and now is when I need the most support.

I value 25's opinion and experience and she has some knowledge relative to my locale and I was hoping to follow up on our convo regarding connecting in the alt. But, when the time is right. No pressure 25. wink I'm feeling a bit pathetic here...

I am doing better. Caught S6's gaze this morning on the way to camp (lately eye contact has been nearly impossible). I told him basically that I learned something about him yesterday, that he is really able to have his feelings and move forward and that I can be here for him through whatever feelings he's having...he gave me the cutest puppy eyes and said "I know mommy. I love you." And it was the sweetest, most heart felt expression that has come from him in so long. Precious moment and I'm grateful for it.

Off to knock some things off my list.

Thanks for posting Stacy. It is much appreciated.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Support please... - 07/24/09 06:04 PM
thanks givingitmyall.

I've become a tad reliant on the folks here...IRL things are so precarious and others' hearts are invested IYKWIM.
Posted By: orangedog Re: 25 MLC...are you out there? - 07/24/09 06:06 PM
I'm here. Don't stress about the L appt. today.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Alrighty then... - 07/24/09 11:27 PM
Well, this L requires a $7500 retainer. It was pretty grim too. I feel kind of sick.

On the up side, I may be able to get a lot of money for something I trying to sell. And I mean a lot.

The whole thing with the L just had me in tears. Maybe just not the right L...I don't know.

Feel so wiped out but I'm gonna keep going.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 12:21 AM
Having just fired a lawyer and hired a new one, I can assure you that you know if the L isn't right. And btw $7500 retainer is ridiculous - way out of spex for the area.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 01:04 AM
That's a lot of money. And if he/she doesn't have the right vibe then keep lookin'. It's Friday so go have a Margarita.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 01:24 AM
Well, really there is no rush. I am certain I will get less money than I am getting now so I may as well figure out where I am going to go and take the time to find a new lawyer.

Margarita...nope, kid night. But enjoy one for me.
Posted By: Sara Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 02:52 AM
Are these first meetings free? No reason not to keep talking to attorneys if they are free.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 05:07 AM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Are these first meetings free? No reason not to keep talking to attorneys if they are free.


Yes, so far they are free.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 02:27 PM
Man, I am a nervous nilly now. The L told me to document all of our assets, H has thousands of items that would take me forever to go through and there is no way I could do it discreetly. I guess I just do the best I can.

I've got to see another L that can put a more positive twist on this...my relative L was better.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 02:48 PM
I was just looking through bank statements and H's income has gone down drastically since he left...

Mama needs a plan and it probably should not include alcohol.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 02:51 PM
AAK

Quote:
Mama needs a plan and it probably should not include alcohol.


RIGHT. I gave it up on the day the bomb "blowed up." Need to be able to think clearly.

Hang in there. You WILL get through this and emerge on the other side as a MUCH stronger person.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 03:11 PM
I don't even drink much anyway but just saying that I could be driven to it IYKNWIM... smirk
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 11:16 PM
So, spent hours crying and going through things today. Trying to be proactive.

H just texted asking me if I'm doing ok...

and my answer is?
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 11:34 PM
Do you feel you must answer?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 11:45 PM
I have not responded yet. The only reason I would want to respond is if he is actually concerned.

I could just answer "yes"...
Posted By: Sara Re: Alrighty then... - 07/25/09 11:53 PM
Do you think the income really went down, or do you think he has found a way to hide his income from you?
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 12:27 AM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Do you think the income really went down, or do you think he has found a way to hide his income from you?


Sara, you're sounding too much like me now. I thought it all seemed too convenient... Glad I'm not the only paranoid one around here... wink
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 12:29 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I have not responded yet. The only reason I would want to respond is if he is actually concerned.

I could just answer "yes"...




IMO, not responding is a the best response... Unless it invites a phone call to ask the same thing in which case "yes" would suffice... If he calls, I'd cut it short...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 01:00 AM
I think it actually went down. He was chasing rainbows instead of really going where he knew the money was. He was working with almost no equipment. I think that he has a sort of subconscious scorched earth approach to this time in his life...lose everything and then start fresh. I can't be sure. Maybe he's hiding a little but I really don't think so. He is now taking projects he would never have taken before for less money because he is back in "reality." He was traveling and meandering before so it wasn't really registering.

I didn't answer his text before and now he texted asking if I think he should do a particular something with the kids. I'm cool with not having responded to the text about if I'm ok...

BTW- I saw a picture of H with another woman (beautiful young woman) on his computer (I was getting some other things off of there). It was right on the desktop..conspicuously. Hurt like hell because it was one of those oh so newly in love kind of shots...I cried a lot just from the weirdness of it. And still, I wonder why does he want me to see this?

But, I'm pretty clear that my first basic necessity is getting the legal arrangement for how much I will get every month so I know finally what I am working with and in turn, where I can afford to live etc.

Brutal day. Just brutal. But I'm going to go shower it off and got to a friend's birthday party.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 01:01 AM
Oh, and once again, I appreciate you guys being here.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 01:43 AM
Quote:
Brutal day. Just brutal. But I'm going to go shower it off and got to a friend's birthday party.


Have fun. You really need to be good to yourself right now.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 06:45 AM
Had a great time, was a party for an old high school friend who it turns out is on the verge of being a WAW...so, needless to say, we spent some time talking about it. Was interesting. They "aren't compatible". It is just "biological to want to be with other people." And, I didn't feel so judgmental and I remembered feeling so hopeless in my marriage at certain points. I hope I helped.

That photo of H and OW is haunting me tonight...
Posted By: orangedog Re: Alrighty then... - 07/26/09 08:15 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, and once again, I appreciate you guys being here.


We appreciate you here too.
Posted By: aliveandkicking good one - 07/29/09 02:45 AM
Just remembered this, was on our kitchen wall when I was a kid-

"If you are being run out of town, get in front and make it look like a parade."


wink
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: good one - 07/29/09 02:47 AM
AAK,

I have not heard that one before. I like it - it made me smile.

Hope you had a good day.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 07/29/09 02:49 AM
Ha, my day s*cked a** but I'm still AAK...

I don't even want to write about it anymore. crazy

Hope you had a good one. smile
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: good one - 07/29/09 02:52 AM
Sorry about your day. Enough said.

I had some developments that I think are good. But, only time will tell.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 07/29/09 03:03 AM
Cool. I'm just getting through it.

Life is still good.

I'll try to check your thread. Limiting my time here these days...
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: good one - 07/29/09 03:16 AM
It WILL get better. And you will be (and already are) STRONGER.

In this process, I have found strength I would never have known I had otherwise.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: good one - 07/29/09 05:18 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just remembered this, was on our kitchen wall when I was a kid-

"If you are being run out of town, get in front and make it look like a parade."


wink



Love it.
Posted By: orangedog Re: good one - 07/29/09 05:23 AM
A&K, I'm spending less time on the threads too. But I'll keep you in my thoughts.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: good one - 07/29/09 06:42 PM
The door to the universe is you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avf7waFFQBU
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 07/29/09 07:08 PM
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
The door to the universe is you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Avf7waFFQBU


Hey, isn't it against the rules here to link to romantic scenes from movies?
cry wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 07/29/09 11:00 PM
AAAAAHHHHHHHHHH...I'm getting out of dodge for the weekend and H is obsessed with where I'm going...alluding to introducing kids to his new super hot famous GF...wants to trade secrets (he'll tell me about her if I tell him about the nonexistent guy I'm going with)...WACKO.

I need to wrap my brain and my heart in TEFLON!!!!!!
Posted By: Gardener Re: good one - 07/30/09 05:17 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I need to wrap my brain and my heart in TEFLON!!!!!!
Interesting. I've been thinking more....kevlar grin
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: good one - 07/30/09 08:50 PM
Quote:
H is obsessed with where I'm going...alluding to introducing kids to his new super hot famous GF


Sure, I can understand this. After all, it's all about him.

Schmuck. You sooooo need to get detached.
Posted By: orangedog Re: good one - 07/30/09 09:22 PM
Can I buy you some earplugs?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 08/01/09 07:03 AM
Quote:
You sooooo need to get detached.


I'm really getting there.

Finding my way.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: good one - 08/01/09 12:34 PM
AAK

Quote:
Quote:
You sooooo need to get detached.

I'm really getting there.

Finding my way.


You would REALLY benefit and find some stability from detaching. Consciously work on it, then let it happen. It may take some time, but you will know when you get there.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: good one - 08/02/09 06:22 PM
Let us know when the Way becomes clear(er). We all want to cheer.

Remember -- you've got People in your corner.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: good one - 08/02/09 07:28 PM
Honestly, taking some time away from here is helping. smile

I don't have anything specific to impart, just trying to get connected to myself (if that makes sense).
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: good one - 08/02/09 07:29 PM
Makes perfect sense.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Face book - 08/06/09 09:19 PM
LOL, I forgot my password and had set up the account with fake info so I can't get back on...got to let it go for now. smile
Posted By: Gypsy Re: Alrighty then... - 08/06/09 09:42 PM
Hello Ms Alive..

You certainly know how to make life work (going out, pulling away from here as needed) and reaching out as needed. Good for you!

On the legal front, in Connecticut a $7500 retainer is the norm, with an uncontested divorce using lawyers using less then that amount. Mediation is cheaper. Having a lawyer to review your mediation is worth the price to make sure it's fair.

If the lawyer says document everything.. document everything. If your spouse takes those items out of the house and you have no record of it, its value is gone. Taking books on divorce out of your library. They will tell you the in's and out's. A friend gave me "Congratulations on Your Divorce." which I could never open because of the title until just recently. That has a lot of timely info that is helpful in the pre-consideration, initiation, during and post divorce timeline. It's a whole other world.

Be sure to reach out for your true friends who listen and give you rock solid advice, even if a 2x4 is attached to it.

I'm sorry to hear you're going through this pain.. but.. the best is yet to come.

*hugs*
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 04:49 AM
Gypsy- I found that focusing so much on my sitch was making me utterly miserable. Honestly I got kind of dependent and it weirded me out.

When 25MLC disappeared, I took it so personally and was sifting through wondering what the hell I said that was "off" or what made me not worth the energy anymore.

Then I realized how insecure and pathetic it was for me to be relying on complete strangers to make determinations about me and my life and even my value. It really highlighted how little credit I give myself and my ability to cope.

So, I went through a little DB withdrawal and went through some more self-loathing, lonely, overwhelmed depression.

I got away for 5 days and really took some time for myself. Went from near suicidal to reinvigorated and my new outlook is truly that I can handle it. I saw myself 5 or 10 years from now if I keep operated from divorce=worse than death and it was awful.

I feel good. I don't have much attraction for H if any, I don't desire his company or to talk to him or ruminate or analyze, I just want to be sane and happy and functional.

So, in essence, even though much of this gets covered on here, we all must have reverence for each other's process. No one could cultivate this feeling for me. I had to truly hit bottom and see my kids as drug addicts and me in a ditch to digest what is at stake. And I think I'm lucky to have sunk so low because so many here will spend life feeling like something subtle but critical is missing because their spouse is gone. In my case it was so extreme that I can be vigilant about not succumbing.

It is just life. Not better or worse. I just can't do it anymore. The whole "my life would have been great if...but now I'll settle for plan B." It is MY life, the only one I have as far as I know and I am going to enjoy it, love, live, thrive and be my best self.

None of the logistical issues are any more settled than they were before. I just am insisting on breathing deeply, laughing, flirting, playing and exploring no matter what happens. That is my resolution.

wink
Posted By: Sara Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:20 AM
Good for you, AAK. it is really hard to get perspective when you get the wind punched out of you. I guess I was wrong all those times I said that you seemed very self-aware and understood what was going on in your life. That's how it looked from the outside, but you were hiding your deeper feelings.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:33 AM
You weren't wrong. I've always gotten it intellectually. But, deep down, the loss was so unacceptable and disabling.

You don't know you really get it until you do...YKWIM?

I can only hope that this is just a taste of the sweeter life that awaits because I am still in the thick of it and feeling good anyway.
Posted By: Sara Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:42 AM
Yes, IKWYM. I am that way too. I can mouth the words, but my feelings can be totally out of control.

I'm seeing it today in my 18 year old niece, who was in love with a boy from her high school all this year. Now they are both going to college in a couple of weeks, and he dropped her completely. Says really ugly things to her. Claims he never loved her. The same stuff everyone here is dealing with. And she has never had it happen before. She is totally lost. Crying all the time. I tried to tell her that she will learn from this, that she will be stronger, and better off because it happened. But she thinks her aunt is a nutcase. Maybe you could pretend that you are 18 and have your whole life to look forward to, and are about to embark on a great adventure. And maybe you think I'm a nutcase too. But you've got to have hope for a better future. That's what drives all of us to get out of bed in the morning and try again for another day.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:46 AM
Quote:
I just am insisting on breathing deeply, laughing, flirting, playing and exploring no matter what happens. That is my resolution... I can only hope that this is just a taste of the sweeter life that awaits because I am still in the thick of it and feeling good anyway.


smile smile smile

Smiley's Person likes this. Smiley's Person likes this verrrrrrrrrrrrryyyyy much.

Bully for you!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:56 AM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Yes, IKWYM. I am that way too. I can mouth the words, but my feelings can be totally out of control.

I'm seeing it today in my 18 year old niece, who was in love with a boy from her high school all this year. Now they are both going to college in a couple of weeks, and he dropped her completely. Says really ugly things to her. Claims he never loved her. The same stuff everyone here is dealing with. And she has never had it happen before. She is totally lost. Crying all the time. I tried to tell her that she will learn from this, that she will be stronger, and better off because it happened. But she thinks her aunt is a nutcase. Maybe you could pretend that you are 18 and have your whole life to look forward to, and are about to embark on a great adventure. And maybe you think I'm a nutcase too. But you've got to have hope for a better future. That's what drives all of us to get out of bed in the morning and try again for another day.


Obviously you can't tell her...she has to experience it. As a matter of fact, the more you tell her that, the more she thinks she is unique and has defend that it is oh so much worse than you can imagine.

As for me, no pretending here. I'm a balls out, straight up kind of gal. I'd rather face it head on and walk right through...

It isn't even hope anymore because I have no idea when this mess will be sorted out, it is a decision to be happy. That's all.
Posted By: Sara Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 06:01 AM
Quote:
As a matter of fact, the more you tell her that, the more she thinks she is unique and has defend that it is oh so much worse than you can imagine.


Yep. That's exactly what she told me. But with my experience on the DB board, I can imagine some really bad scenarios!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 06:19 AM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Quote:
As a matter of fact, the more you tell her that, the more she thinks she is unique and has defend that it is oh so much worse than you can imagine.


Yep. That's exactly what she told me. But with my experience on the DB board, I can imagine some really bad scenarios!


LOL...ya, we've got some doosies here. Hopefully once she gets through this she'll be able to recall in the future that one does survive heartbreak.

I certainly got that from the beginning, it was the life with kids and divorce that did me in.

Maybe you can suggest that she be grateful she doesn't have kids with that punk a** motherf*cker and she is young enough to meet someone else (probably many someone elses). I think cussing is really effective when relating to youngins. Just tear him up with her, that could be fun. wink
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 11:31 AM
Quote:
I just am insisting on breathing deeply, laughing, flirting, playing and exploring no matter what happens. That is my resolution.


Wonderful. You HAVE found the key that opens the door.
I am proud of you. Stay on this path. It IS the correct one.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 12:35 PM
Quote:
I'm a balls out, straight up kind of gal. I'd rather face it head on and walk right through...

It isn't even hope anymore because I have no idea when this mess will be sorted out, it is a decision to be happy.


Oh, my my my! Smiley's Person likes this, too! Oh, yes, Smiley's Person likes this very, very, very much. Smiley's Person is very, very happy for his friend, aliveandkicking.

You know why you hid in that ditch, Blithe?...You hid it in that ditch because you think there's still hope. But Blithe, the only hope you have is to accept the fact that you're already dead. The sooner you accept that, the sooner you'll be able to function.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
Quote:
I just am insisting on breathing deeply, laughing, flirting, playing and exploring no matter what happens. That is my resolution.


Wonderful. You HAVE found the key that opens the door.
I am proud of you. Stay on this path. It IS the correct one.


Hun, you were right about a lot of things...
Posted By: Coach Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:29 PM
AAK, You matter.

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
AAK, You matter.

Cheers


Likewise!!! And truly means something coming from you.

The beautiful thing about today is that everything is up in the air, no certainty, no money, no clue what my next move is AND, I'm still smiling. smile
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 05:36 PM
Quote:
Hun, you were right about a lot of things...


wink Thanks. Very kind of you.

You ARE perfectly fine just the way you are. grin
Posted By: orangedog Re: Alrighty then... - 08/07/09 06:08 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
The beautiful thing about today is that everything is up in the air, no certainty, no money, no clue what my next move is AND, I'm still smiling. smile


That's how it is with me too. On paper I should be miserable. Recent bout of depression, bankruptcy, divorce, finances still a mess. But I just don't care about those things anymore. I simply appreciate and enjoy what I have at the moment. And yes, I still have other moments where those other things make me angry or sad but I'm getting better about not dwelling on them. Sweep them aside and return to now. I remain present for my children, friends, and family. I owe it to them and I owe it to myself.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Alrighty then... - 08/11/09 05:32 PM
FYI- spaced on my FB password again...so, don't know when I'll be back on there.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Alrighty then... - 08/11/09 05:35 PM
Quote:
FYI- spaced on my FB password again...so, don't know when I'll be back on there.


THAT's a secure password.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Alrighty then... - 08/11/09 05:45 PM
Hint: How to make a great password.

Think of a short phrase you can remember easily such as this one from Shakespeare's Henry the VI.

"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."

Now just write the first letter from each word.

Tftwdlkatl

Total gibberish, difficult to hack, but easy to remember.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Alrighty then... - 08/11/09 05:52 PM
That's a great idea.

But, being a member of the esteemed grin bar, I have to ask if you know what this,

Quote:
"The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers."


...really meant?
Posted By: hopeful_cb Re: Alrighty then... - 08/11/09 06:03 PM
great idea for a password there, I'll have to try that one.

And what does it mean??
Posted By: aliveandkicking S6 Birthday coming up...question... - 08/12/09 05:08 PM
So, how best to handle S6's birthday is on the table. Most of my family has not seen H and wants to rip his nuts off. He also has new friends who S want to invite...

Do I just make sure I have tequila on hand?

How have others handled this?
Posted By: Coach Re: S6 Birthday coming up...question... - 08/12/09 05:55 PM
I would make it low key. Maybe have the party at a park where the expense is low, guests can come and go and it's a neutral site. Instead of ripping them off get a pinata, let H spin everyone and you give your family a Louisville Slugger and a blindfold with holes in it. You can handle it.
Cheers
ps Save the tequila for later.
Alright so, yay for me, I am detached to the extent that I can even see pictures of H with other women and it doesn't bother me. F*cking free at last.

Now, I have made it clear to H that I am moving on and I am. I am open to dating, I am actively pursuing job opportunities, looking for a place to live, reconnecting with friends, doing my thang. I have about a 1-2% window of "what if..." which I am more than comfortable living with...I don't pine for him.

My general feeling is that I don't care to speak to him, see him, interact with him. It is not hostile, just sane IMO. However, the more detached I am, the more he finds reasons to connect with me (re: kids etc), things I really don't need to be involved in or discuss. I rarely take his calls. And, I have been pretty adept at handling his reactions. For example "Oh so you're ignoring my calls, funny." To which I respond, "No H, just busy and email is more convenient for me." But he persists, wants the banter and the contact.

Today he sent a text about someone he wants to hook me up with to help with promoting my biz, someone who is a "good friend" of his. Now, I don't want any drama or enmeshment with him so I didn't answer and was going to come on here first but he texted again about it. So, I said for him to give her my info. He said that she wants to know x,y and z. I said I'd be happy to talk to her and that way he wont be in the middle and "I think that is best, don't you?" He texted "Ok AK," that he is just trying to help and he is not in the middle. I said thanks again and "I think what I said is reasonable" and "all good." I like how I handled it. I am not really in a position to refuse "help" but I will not partake in anything that involves him, I am wary of even doing business with anyone who knows him but he knows EVERYONE so I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face...

Now, on the D front. Not only do I not have money for a lawyer right now, I don't have money to pay the bills and H is bugging ME about getting a job while his income is plummeting as he chases his dream and lives life in Lalaland. I had it out with him last week and really told him what I thought about his lack of awareness and drive to man up and take care of his family (he can make at least 4-5 times what I can because he has built his career with me by his side for 14 years). But, I am done chiding him. If he was that guy who put his family first, we'd still be together. So, I am looking for work and accepting that at some point soon we will make a legal agreement and settle the issue of what he owes me. I am over trying to make it "fair". I made my choices and he made his and as long as I am represented, I will take my allotment and move on.

In the meantime, I don't like him or really respect him. I don't want to know about his life or his happenings or his "opportunities". I want him to "show me the money" or shut the f*ck up (I can be honest here, right?)...

So, what I really want here from you is guidance and support on how to maintain civility and set my boundaries at the same time. I am doing pretty good. But, every once in a while, he throws me off or I feel either too defensive or I feel a tiny bit of that "how should I play this" nonsense (that 1-2% agenda thingy)...in a perfect world we would find a way to step up for each other and love each other BUT that is not even within the realm of possibility at this juncture and I have accepted that I can have an awesome life without him. I don't want to operate with the DB agenda, I want to take care of myself and do what is best for me and my kids. I believe that civility with diligent boundaries are the healthiest choices for my kids (if it were just me, we'd have ZERO contact).

In short (LOL), I am detached and detaching and he wants to win points with me, ingratiate himself to me and the kids, look good to his friends ("see, she's happy and I'm a good guy hooking her up with work")...thoughts on navigation?

I love you guys!

AAK
AAK,

What helped me keep a cordial and respectful relationship with my kids' dad, was what I refer to as "The Cousin Paradigm".

Imagine a cousin that you've known for a long time, part of your family, you care about this cousin and want the best for him. That being said, you're not enmeshed in his life, he can come and go, and that's okay.

So, your STBX is now the main variable in "The Cousin Paradigm". I don't know if this helps you, but it really helped me to be able to "name" the new stage of our relationship.

Also, his renewed interest in you is pure WAS "script". It will get more intense so buckle up.

Hope this helped.

Your friend in Wisconsin.

Stacy

p.s. - So rooting for you!!!
Also, good post on Kevin's thread.

And, not to speak for 25, we all know it's not working for him -- he is unable to help himself.

I'm taking a break from him. My BIL is in the last weeks of his battle with cancer, and I just don't have the energy to spare. Dealing w/his death, and then reading the daily nonsense that Kevin spews -- can't do it.

Stacy
Quote:
Also, his renewed interest in you is pure WAS "script". It will get more intense so buckle up.


Oh ya! That is why I'm here. I see it coming and I want to "handle it". And like I said, I get these truly itty bitty sneaky feelings of "if I handle it right, things might work out." But, I don't want those feelings pulling my strings. I am ultra aware of my level of detachment and when I am vulnerable.

I am ok and I am going to be ok. I have NO idea what is coming next for me but I am ok. Hallelujah!

I sort of see H as a crazy neighbor or Uncle I have to deal with but you and I both know it is a tad trickier and the stakes for the kids are a bit higher...

Yes, you're helping.
Originally Posted By: davidswife
Also, good post on Kevin's thread.

And, not to speak for 25, we all know it's not working for him -- he is unable to help himself.

I'm taking a break from him. My BIL is in the last weeks of his battle with cancer, and I just don't have the energy to spare. Dealing w/his death, and then reading the daily nonsense that Kevin spews -- can't do it.

Stacy



In Kevin's defense, somehow the comfort he is getting out of this is outweighing the negatives. I know this only from my own experience. I was ready to drive off a cliff. Rock f*cking bottom and that is when things shifted. He has to hit his bottom. I don't judge it, I relate to it and feel pity.
Reposting so this hits the next page. Alright so, yay for me, I am detached to the extent that I can even see pictures of H with other women and it doesn't bother me. F*cking free at last.

Now, I have made it clear to H that I am moving on and I am. I am open to dating, I am actively pursuing job opportunities, looking for a place to live, reconnecting with friends, doing my thang. I have about a 1-2% window of "what if..." which I am more than comfortable living with...I don't pine for him.

My general feeling is that I don't care to speak to him, see him, interact with him. It is not hostile, just sane IMO. However, the more detached I am, the more he finds reasons to connect with me (re: kids etc), things I really don't need to be involved in or discuss. I rarely take his calls. And, I have been pretty adept at handling his reactions. For example "Oh so you're ignoring my calls, funny." To which I respond, "No H, just busy and email is more convenient for me." But he persists, wants the banter and the contact.

Today he sent a text about someone he wants to hook me up with to help with promoting my biz, someone who is a "good friend" of his. Now, I don't want any drama or enmeshment with him so I didn't answer and was going to come on here first but he texted again about it. So, I said for him to give her my info. He said that she wants to know x,y and z. I said I'd be happy to talk to her and that way he wont be in the middle and "I think that is best, don't you?" He texted "Ok AK," that he is just trying to help and he is not in the middle. I said thanks again and "I think what I said is reasonable" and "all good." I like how I handled it. I am not really in a position to refuse "help" but I will not partake in anything that involves him, I am wary of even doing business with anyone who knows him but he knows EVERYONE so I don't want to cut off my nose to spite my face...

Now, on the D front. Not only do I not have money for a lawyer right now, I don't have money to pay the bills and H is bugging ME about getting a job while his income is plummeting as he chases his dream and lives life in Lalaland. I had it out with him last week and really told him what I thought about his lack of awareness and drive to man up and take care of his family (he can make at least 4-5 times what I can because he has built his career with me by his side for 14 years). But, I am done chiding him. If he was that guy who put his family first, we'd still be together. So, I am looking for work and accepting that at some point soon we will make a legal agreement and settle the issue of what he owes me. I am over trying to make it "fair". I made my choices and he made his and as long as I am represented, I will take my allotment and move on.

In the meantime, I don't like him or really respect him. I don't want to know about his life or his happenings or his "opportunities". I want him to "show me the money" or shut the f*ck up (I can be honest here, right?)...

So, what I really want here from you is guidance and support on how to maintain civility and set my boundaries at the same time. I am doing pretty good. But, every once in a while, he throws me off or I feel either too defensive or I feel a tiny bit of that "how should I play this" nonsense (that 1-2% agenda thingy)...in a perfect world we would find a way to step up for each other and love each other BUT that is not even within the realm of possibility at this juncture and I have accepted that I can have an awesome life without him. I don't want to operate with the DB agenda, I want to take care of myself and do what is best for me and my kids. I believe that civility with diligent boundaries are the healthiest choices for my kids (if it were just me, we'd have ZERO contact).

In short (LOL), I am detached and detaching and he wants to win points with me, ingratiate himself to me and the kids, look good to his friends ("see, she's happy and I'm a good guy hooking her up with work")...thoughts on navigation?

I love you guys!

AAK
[/quote]

Oh ya! That is why I'm here. I see it coming and I want to "handle it". And like I said, I get these truly itty bitty sneaky feelings of "if I handle it right, things might work out." [/quote]

Trust me, AAK, whatever happens with your marriage -- things WILL work out. You and your kids, sister, you and your kids.

Keep your eye on that prize!!
AAK -

Congratulations!!! I'm really proud of you.

How are the kids doing going back and forth?

I think I'd stick to email/txt for as much contact as you can possibly cover... No emotion, less sparring, etc...

Hope the job situation turns out fabulously!! I've done a ton of launching start-ups in my day. Yell if I can help!
Quote:
How are the kids doing going back and forth?


This sucks a** for my kids. That's the truth but I'm handling it. I'm not clear yet if there is a better way. We don't have enough money for clothes or toys at both places so they lug stuff back and forth. When I have clarity, I will propose an alternative. Until then, this is how it is.

I am just handling the baggage and turmoil that comes with the territory and though it weighs on me because it is traumatic for my kids. But, I really am in an accepting place.

I hope you are well!
Hi A&K,

Glad to see things look like they are looking up for your Mojo, and possibly even for your sitch.

Thanks for your support on my thread.

Thinker
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

This sucks a** for my kids. That's the truth but I'm handling it. I'm not clear yet if there is a better way...

I am just handling the baggage and turmoil that comes with the territory and though it weighs on me because it is traumatic for my kids. But, I really am in an accepting place.


Hey A&K,

Great job on the overall 'tude... And I agree with you, this is the part that $ucks most once you've detached, watching what it does to the kids...

-AlexEN
I keep thinking I can "handle it." Props to Coach!
Well I found you but would not have if it weren't for MY name here...

Alas, my time here has been spent on K4's thread and unlike you, I can't handle him anymore. I swear to God if he wants to discuss Catholicism with me one more time I will screw my head in the ceiling....$%^&!!!

ANyhow, am on my way to do my biz thing tonight so cannot say much except props to YOU AK for getting to this point. The party is Saturday? Who are these "new friends"? Are they your son's or your....H's? (I want to call him something else....later)

I will post more later. Things are good here, but you are on track for more than surviving. LOVE The way you handled the pestering texts. WTH Is wrong with him? Is he in 8th grade? You pull away so he pushes....yeah we got it the first 4 years...

Alright I'll be late for my thing if I get sucked in now. Um, thanks for clarifying the thread title b/c we left town for a few days and when I got back could not find YOUR thread although I found YOUR comments elsewhere....(If you can pick up the slack with k4 have at it but you won't get ANYWHERE on the religion with him...he won't see it. Not can't. WON'T.) He'll deflect his energy and dig himself a hole to hide in and stay there, and feel MORALLY RIGHT!!))

Dang, I am getting sucked into HIS thread now and I'm on YOURS....how weird is that?

Gotta go but will post more later, take care of YOURSELF and young' uns.

J-
Thanks for the post! I'm so insecure, I thought I had said something that put you off.

I have to be done with Kevin's thread...he's got to hit bottom and that is all there is to it.

Birthday party is in the planning stages for next month. Seeing as though I have a mountain of unpaid bills, I don't know what we'll drum up.

Man I hate that I have to co-parent with such a weenie but it is what it is.

The "new friends" are H's (the daughter of the rich person who put him up) and her kids.

Right now, money is the big hurdle...

Congrats on your situation!!! Glad it is working out.
Just tired of dealing with H. The money stuff is so stressful and I am resentful (despite my improved outlook)...

But after texting me about some money issues, he just texted "You doing ok otherwise?"

I want to say, "Oh, you mean other than my kids falling apart, no money to pay the bills, no job prospects, a house full of all of your sh*t and having to start from scratch? Yes, other than that, I'm fine."

But, I guess I should just not answer or say yes.

any thoughts?
smile

Don't answer. If he has to ask, he's an idiot.
Hon, it has been established that he's an idiot. wink

But, it is still hard when he asks...
I know..... I was hoping for a tiny chuckle! smile
I definitely chuckled...

F*ck, I hate the moments when I remember how he would have gone above and beyond to ensure I was happy...sometimes I am endeared by his checking in on me and trying to connect and gain my trust. But, really, once he gets an ounce of gratification, he just takes it and moves on and I am still on my own.

I am okay. Just writing something that makes me nostalgic but it is a project I am excited about...so, it is worth it.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just tired of dealing with H. The money stuff is so stressful and I am resentful (despite my improved outlook)...

But after texting me about some money issues, he just texted "You doing ok otherwise?"

I want to say, "Oh, you mean other than my kids falling apart, no money to pay the bills, no job prospects, a house full of all of your sh*t and having to start from scratch? Yes, other than that, I'm fine."

But, I guess I should just not answer or say yes.

any thoughts?


OK OTHERWISE WHAT??? @#$%^!!!!! (SIGH)


A/K,
I do NOT know if this is right or not. Okay? I mean it, I am not sure...But damn....
I would have to succinctly touch that. Just say,
"Excuse me H, but are you really asking me how I am dealing with ALL Of this? OR did you want a one word answer that shows I acknowledge YOUR generous concern? B/C let's not do the fake act anymore, it's a MASK I don't want to wear when we are not in front of the kids. WE're both adults and you know you have hurt me and US though you will probably never know how much. SO be it.
Let's move forward now without the pretense of things being "just great". I will be fine, b/c of who I AM.....and we will co-parent as best we can. And that's it. I wish the best for you but from now on, please spare me the feigned gestures of gentlmanly, husbandly concern. It's too much to ask of me at this point. As long as you don't act as if I have amnesia, we'll be fine and can go forward with what's left, which is our children and a good past long ago....

I am going with my gut and instinct here. DBing would be shorter. The alternative in the DB world would be something like "Sure I'm okay. I'm MORE Than okay! I'm great. Why wouldn't I be?" That's another option....I would not give a one word answer b/c he wants either that, or an answer that shows YOU think he's being there for you, and I could not stomach that. Sorry.

Your h really bugs me. Can you tell
? shocked
j-
I'd give him a two word answer. First word starts with "F" and rhymes with "duck".


(Of course I'm not it a good position to give advice right now. M ending Monday.)
Originally Posted By: orangedog
I'd give him a two word answer. First word starts with "F" and rhymes with "duck".


(Of course I'm not it a good position to give advice right now. M ending Monday.)



SO sorry to hear that Orange....that sucks...big time. I do have 2 relatives who div and remarried 5 years later, if that helps. Actually telling them that at this time would NOT have helped them. They needed to heal and become who they needed to become. But they had kids like you and they DID co-parent, eventually, well. That bonded them and that grew and the rest is history. It does happen.

But if not, be well...take care of yourself. No one else will today. So you will, and you will be alright, someday. I hope sooner, rather than later.
((( )))
j-
The correct thing to do is......

NOTHING. Do not respond...

It is much more effective to make them wonder what is going on than any words can say....
Well, I had texted "ya"...damn one word answer and then he sent me a text about how depressed he is about money and then "when did life become so stressful for everyone?"

I said, "I guess when people lose sight of what really matters...I'm still trying to have gratitude. I gotta run." It was 11pm.

Just now we had heated discussion about money and at one point he said that he knows I'm angry with him but can't I just talk to him (meaning listen and don't express any disagreement). I finally heard Coach's words in my head and I told H to please stop mind reading. Ha, he said "what?" I said, you're mind reading, you don't know what I feel and you really shouldn't assume and if you want to know, just ask." Now, back to the money...

25- that paragraph you wrote is the most succinct, well articulate message I could have sent. I have said similar in pieces but wow that packs a punch. And, I may just have to use it even as an afterthought...

I feel like an ant moving a rubber tree plant...but I've got "high hopes, high hopes, high apple pie in the sky hopes...oops there goes another rubber tree plant." grin
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
The correct thing to do is......

NOTHING. Do not respond...

It is much more effective to make them wonder what is going on than any words can say....



Dude, at this point, I'd pay you to run this thing for me!!! Except I'm broke.
Also, when I don't respond, he provokes me with "oh, so you don't answer my calls, funny," and/or he'll reel me in with something kid related or "important".

I think that the impression that I am "angry" really disturbs me because it seems like such an easy out for him...me, predictably angry because I am just that person not that I am angry for a f*cking valid reason.

Anyway, putting aside what he thinks or feels, I am mostly concerned with getting my life together and working out some kind of arrangement with him, getting some work and moving to a cheaper place. Right now, I dance with him a little because I don't want him cutting me off...yuck. But, once I am situated, I can be a bit truer to my own desires (like getting him off my facebook page!!!)...
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
The correct thing to do is......

NOTHING. Do not respond...

It is much more effective to make them wonder what is going on than any words can say....



Ha, you are so right. The more I look back. But, it effectively makes him nuts and he starts acting like an idiot...for example when I went away and he was texting me about the guy I was with (I wasn't with one)...

I know it gets to him but then what? How do I handle his acting out (which he eventually drags the kids into by doing things with them that he knows I don't want him to, asking me if it is ok if he does those things, brings up other women he's interested in etc).

waaa, I wish you could do this for me. LOL.
Set a boundary. Tell him you only want to discuss kids and money right now. Everthing else is wasting time and energy you need for yourself. You enforce the boundary by only responding to communication about the kids or money.

Document his behavior. If he is acting reckless with the kids then document the pattern.
Ya, I'm not sure if showing them innapropriate movies or suggesting he might intorduce them to someone he is involved with constitutes recklessness. It is really just juvenile. But, ya, I'll document it.
and maybe if you feel comfortable with that paragraph, use it as a frame of reference for boundary setting in the future as in, "THIS is what IS real and true and this is what I am willing to act like in front of the kids (civil and respectful that he's their father and your co-parent) and nothing else...." tired

Then get your PMA on and groove to the move in your life and the progress and all that jazz.... cool and if you have to, fake it til you make it. There's some truth in there.

talk to you after my weekend.
j-
Quote:
I know it gets to him but then what? How do I handle his acting out (which he eventually drags the kids into by doing things with them that he knows I don't want him to, asking me if it is ok if he does those things, brings up other women he's interested in etc).

waaa, I wish you could do this for me. LOL.


Funny. I wish I could too.

You have to handle him like you would a little child. Children do the same types of things (especially little boys) to get your attention mommy.

The CORRECT answer is agree WITH his views. (he will then want to take the opposit view of that too.


Just HAPPILY agree with what he wants to do with the kids. He will do what he wants to anyway, so disagreeing with him is only feeding his ego. Learn to agree... "I don't care if that is what you want to do with them this weekend. Sounds good to me. Have fun. Anyway, I was just walking out the door. Talk to you later. ta ta."

Regarding other women comments.. "Good for you. She can have you. Hey, I am on the other line and need to go. Talk to you later. ta ta."

And then of course, you need to bring some of your own social interaction into the picture. It is only when you bring your own social interaction into the picture that things will move in YOUR direction. What he does to you will be the very things that drive HIM crazy. No doubt about it.

Other than that. Ignore him. Do not respond. Don't even read his emails. Let him call you 3 or 4 times without returning calls or answering the phone. Let him wonder why he can't get to you anymore. Why you are SO happy to GET OFF the phone. Why you are so busy without him. Why you don't care what he says he is going to do with the kids. Why he can't push your buttons......


Come on. Get on the program. Talkng to him will be a wste of time. Nothing gets accomplished by trying to be the better arguer. Learn to agree happily and stay busy in his eyes.
Actually Gucci, I'm doing pretty good with all that. I usually don't comment on the kid stuff. Only time I really lost it was when he had the kids out so late that S6 was a raving miserable lunatic with me and I let H know that if he is going to keep him out that late he will have to keep him the next day because I can't handle him in that state. But after that convo, I realized that I am just going to have to deal with what I get.

The problem with communication is that we are dealing with so many logistics and money issues right now and that is a perpetual minefield.

I have handled the other woman thing really well. I have made peace with it.

I do want to say that right now thriving without him is my MO. How the hell I could ever trust him or be reconciled with him eludes me. So, my actions need to lead to more sanity and stability for me and my kids and if I have the upper hand with him, great, I can decide at that point but really, I've lost all respect for him at this point.

I want to get your input on a couple specific things. But I have to run.

Thank you!!!!!
a/k,

You are really in a better place than before. You are making SO MUCH progress. I wish you'd somehow become contagious so that others who are stuck could catch your backbone-ishness...
I can't wait to see your life in 18 months (OR LESS)....seriously. I know you wish you could fast forward thru this, but that's not how it goes. But you ARE getting where you need to be. And it seems you are picking up steam. Good.

Stay strong. We are all rooting for you!
J-
Thanks 25. Seriously, you had a lot to do with it...after you stopped posting, I kind of got down on myself and was a bit unnerved by my attachment to this board and all of the obsessing and spinning and time expenditure here. It freaked me out that I was so reliant on it. At that same time, my depression was really kicking in and I tell you, I was rock bottom with fantasies of suicide (not saying I would ever do it, just thought about it a lot). So, I relate to others who can't let go. If you've predetermined that you would sooner die than get divorced, you are more than a tad screwed when your spouse decides that's what's happening. smirk

But, I needed to go there to get to another place.

I got away for a weekend and sort of found myself...felt myself as MY SELF, separate and apart from H and the kids (been a long time coming)...someday over coffee I can tell you about my excursion, was too profound and personal to post on here.

Anyway, I believe that there is no real getting through to someone. You can plant seeds but until they are intrinsically motivated, they wont change, can't really change...it is the nature of our wiring, something has to click. I had feelings and experiences while I was away that I forgot I was capable of having. How do you impart that to someone??? You just can't and for many, only at bottom is there hope for real catharsis.

I am getting better. My pace has been frustrating for many IRL...why am I not divorcing him yet? Why don't I have a job yet? Why...but I am taking actions every day that are leading to small changes which are building up to bigger changes. The prospect of allowing my life to be puppeteered, by my parents or my H or my friends, just doesn't fly with me. I have to find my groove.

Everyday I am learning so much.

Slow and steady...I know that fast-forwarding is not an option.

I'm on FB...would love to connect IRL.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 05:57 AM
So, here we are nice and detached. Had a nice night hanging with a girl friend, trying to explain to her that it is necessary to have sex with her H more than once every six months!!! LOL

So, I get a couple of emails about trivial stuff like H wondering if he can borrow the housekeeper he has forgotten I fired weeks ago due to lack of funds!!! Hello, McFly! Anyway, money is a big problem over here but soon I should be able to get a L to help with that. (cross your fingers, I'm trying to sell something that is worth a lot of money)...

This morning when I dropped the kids off to H, he checked me out and muttered something like "you look nice"...ya, he's noticing (also sent me an email last week telling me how hot I looked on my FB page, wtf??).

So, tonight I get an email with a poem he's written which seems to be reflecting on the demise of our relationship (metaphorically) and then an apology for having sent it.

So, GUCCI, here's a guy who left, was "done", has not really left me alone for the most part, is jealous, probing, juvenile, has pictures of himself with beautiful women looking romantic on his facebook but still has not removed his married status (even though I suggested he should)...sending me a poem.

He comments on my facebook though I never do on his. This is so juvenile but I haven't taken him off my page because I don't want to be provocative right now and he would actually take offense at that...I am too reliant on him for money and it is better if he thinks everything is ok.

But, sometimes, it sickens me that it appears I am in collusion with all of this. I mean that I am "friends" with him and am obviously aware of the pictures on his page...I am trying not to put too much stock in it cuz my MO as I said is to get myself situated and stabilized and avoid drama with him.

Anyway, I really can live without him, don't know how I could live with him at this point or even date him...of course if there was a way, I'd be open to the possibility but for now, not happening. I know I'm repeating myself but what I am looking for is to still feel at the end of all this that I did my best and handled all of this in the most mature and effective manner.

Do you relate to what he is doing? Is it just ego? Possessiveness? Narcissism? I know mind-reading is a no-no but I just don't get it. I feel like maybe I am missing something here, that it is me that rejects him over and over...I don't know. Just looking for the guy perspective and with my own mental well-being in mind (more than DBing) I want to keep myself together.

By the way, dating is not just an option for me at this point, it is a directive I have given myself...I'm not fighting you on that point anymore! grin

Thanks Again!!
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 07:03 AM
That's so weird -- I was just having this conversation last night with my assistant, whose H is not quite at Monsoor's level but very nearly, and who is doing the same thing. Her assessment, which is below under "couple possibilities" seemed pretty spot-on to me.

(Heck, Mrs. SP was sort of doing it as well, trying to come off all "whatevah" and flirty and sassy but "I'm too cool" for you at the same time in the days leading up to the Great European Getaway -- she even made a point of telling me that she de-friended Signore Schmuckatelli on FB (though obviously not on her mental FB, LOL -- come on, he was the Best Evah).

If it 'twere me, I'd de-friend him and FB block him, just to make the point -- but you're right that such a course of action WOULD be provocative.

WAW KNEW that I'd get the "ping" of a new "news" alert when she changed her FB to her maiden name -- and then used the Lionel Ritchie song line "I'm giving you back your name" as her status. She was sort of showing-off to all her FB friends with a big "F-U Smiley's Person" -- the worst of whom immediately thumbs-upped her status and wrote a long series of variations on "you kill me" and "you're so cool" and "LOL." It's just showing-off. Frankly I suspect it's a phony kind of showing-off, fake-it-till-you-make-it style.)


Quote:
don't know how I could live with him at this point or even date him...of course if there was a way, I'd be open to the possibility but for now, not happening.


In the Schnarch book there's this interesting idea -- you don't have to know something until you experience it. In a way, then, that's the answer to these queries. You don't have to know how you could live with him at this point; you don't have to know how you could date him. If you wind up doing so, you'll know how you did it when you experience it.

Quote:
Do you relate to what he is doing? Is it just ego? Possessiveness? Narcissism? I know mind-reading is a no-no but I just don't get it.


Couple possibilities (because I've done that "you look hot" thing with WAW, though that's kind of DB'ing) that my assistant and I came up with last night for this behavior: (A) Obliviousness; (B) it's the only way he knows how to communicate affection; (C) passive-aggressive torment; (D) status-checking (is she still into me?); (E) cake-eating (she's so lame I can bag her AND Hot Rich Actress Lady, bwah-ha-hah! Mon dieu! D'accord! Zoot alors! Smooshmatoes! Peekmanose!); or some combination thereof.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 07:47 AM
Oh crap, that last part made me laugh out loud!!!

I would LOVE for him to try to "bag" me now; that would be some sweet rejection right there.

You're wife's facebook antics surpass H's in a$$holicness! Who airs their dirty laundry on a public forum?? Did u unfriend her? Jesus she sounds like a b$tch though I'm sure she feels justified.

Anyhoo, thanks for the laugh. That shmorgesborg of pseudofrench at the end will give me the giggles for a while.

Bon nuit.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:43 AM
AAK,

Wow - I'm impressed -- you're getting it. No small thing, since some NEVER do (thinking Kevin, here).

Please don't waste even one second of your precious time trying to understand what your H (who seems to have the emotional maturity of a 14 year old boy - seriously) means when he makes some offhand comment about you looking hot. I'm sure you did look hot - and he's 14, and says it. That's it -- you're dealing with a kid.

And thanks for the "help" w/Kevin -- he's exhausting, and I'm about done over there. Glad to see 25 back here -- I know that makes you feel better.

Anyway -- good work.

Toot alors!!

Stacy
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 04:13 PM
Thanks DW.

I am done on Kevin's thread, cuz frankly I think it is a waste of energy and he needs to find his own way...

What the heck is with the poem? I mean, what the f am I supposed to do with that?

Anyway, I've got a pretty good handle on it, just feel that the more I detach, the more provocative he becomes...Gucci??
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 05:00 PM
Well, WAW's seem to love keeping their spouses "hooked". So, they'll be randomly nice -- I think it's to make sure that you're still there. Still waiting, not moving on with your life.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

Detach, detach, detach.

Stacy
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 06:52 PM
Originally Posted By: davidswife
Well, WAW's seem to love keeping their spouses "hooked". So, they'll be randomly nice -- I think it's to make sure that you're still there. Still waiting, not moving on with your life.

Ignore, ignore, ignore.

Detach, detach, detach.

Stacy


AMEN....honey you are doing that thing again where you want to understand him. That's like I was when I met my first truly crazy criminal defendant. I wanted to understand him but you know what? I can't, b/c I am not crazy.

You will NOT understand him EVER. Accept this as it is key to your thriving and moving on and you are wasting time on this endeavor. Seriously. Remember that Mrs.Edwards quote about trying to get back your old life, or what you thought you had, after a big bad event?

You will NEVER be the same person again. Okay fine. You can still be happy and laugh and love. But no, you are not the woman you once were and you will never have the M you wanted to have, with your h. Whether he changes and grows and you forgive, would take years IF it's possible but even then it would not be the same and you would STILL not understand his present behavior. So it really is a waste of energy.

Stay on track.
J=
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 06:59 PM
btw, K4 does not want feedback "unless it's positive"= agreement with him. So unless you support whatever he does in full, don't bother to post. That means even if you think he thinks his w is coming back b/c she's civil to him for a week, or shares HER own happy news about her new car, or is happy for his promotion (which means more money for HER to keep and not pay him in support) he does not want to hear anything, same goes for the d's and whether he's neglectful or self centered....

He only wants help in getting w back. So, I'm guessing I won't have a lot to say to him anymore (or about the preaching which converted/persuaded no one of anything positive). Anyhow, it's best to spend time where you feel it's best used and that goes for all of us IN our lives with the spouses and jobs and children, etc. Don't go to a dry well for water. Find one that will quench your thirst A/K.

Your h has been dry for you for so long. I look forward to you finding and creating your new life. Are you "a/k" on fb? If so, I'll find you.
J-
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 07:06 PM
AK,

I found you on FB, but neglected to put in your friend request my name on here.

So if you have a friend request, and it's from Stacy, last inital B., that's me.

25,

I saw the new phase that Kevin's in. If all he wants is positive, there'll be very little posting there. I worry for his daughters, but what can you do? Nothing.

Stacy
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 08:00 PM
Stacy,

I know. But you can come HERE and other places where you make a difference and don't get mad at your computer screen...

Plus, you have your own family that needs and values your support as do I. And my mil is visiting in 2 weeks and I dread it AND feel guilty b/c she is dying and I'm scared she'll die while here and just with me. And frankly, the timing of the visit could not be personally/professionally worse for me. But bil needs a break and picked that week without really discussing dates and he does deserve a break and I informed h that it sucks THAT week but bil already booked a place. Yeah, it's irritating but in the grand scheme, I have to shut up. She is dying and that's the main thing; being with her and hoping she's alert enough to get something out of it and that the kids can as well. I am doubtful as her cancer is affecting her brain A LOT and I'm literally afraid of her flying even though it's direct and we'll meet her at the gate and h is a doctor, etc. She's not doing well.

So Stacy, I hear you. And I think tomato will post to k4 and other peeps new to his thread or who want to see signs in their own situations, etc. But as for his d's, that is what deeply deeply offends me. All the preaching and arguing (and persuading no one of God's love as he hurls out moral assertions re: his w's behavior...don't get me started...) ALL while ignoring or putting his d's needs on the back burner as long as possible....the hypocrisy.

Spend your money AND your time wisely.

A/K, I'll search later for you. I have to take care of d12 with a HIGH fever now. Can't seem to keep it down for long and it hit 104.8 last night, and on the digital thermometer it went over 105 but she was coherent, and funny and sacastic, etc. (Maybe that's the last thing to go). H is on call at the hospital so until he gets back I just want to get that fever down. We r not that big on ER visits as we know what they involve and she is taking fluids orally...oh well,

ttyl ladies.

Be well.
j-
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 08:03 PM
Quote:
By the way, dating is not just an option for me at this point, it is a directive I have given myself...I'm not fighting you on that point anymore!


Your decision. Even though it is like trying to bake a cake and missing the most important ingredient. You can still call it a cake and you can still try to bake it, but it doesn't come out the right way. You can have all the other ingredients perfect, but missing one of the most important makes the others useless too.

Quote:
This is so juvenile but I haven't taken him off my page because I don't want to be provocative right now and he would actually take offense at that...I am too reliant on him for money and it is better if he thinks everything is ok.


Poor me??? I guess you aren't serious about turning this around or you aren't convinced my advice works. I recommend that you take him of ASAP.Sooner the better. Looks like the cake is missing another ingredient. Turning this around or turning yourself around will take a lot more "who cares what you think" attitude. You aren't there. Sure wish you were.

Quote:
I know I'm repeating myself but what I am looking for is to still feel at the end of all this that I did my best and handled all of this in the most mature and effective manner.


Another area I disagree with you and many others on. There is and has been nothing wrong with you. Nobody is perfect. You would be much further ahead if you would use better self talk such as admitting that you WERE a damn good wife and you have no regrets now. It seems to me it is ALWAYS the person who says "I want to say I did my best or that I tried everything" are always the ones that end up divorce and not reconciled. My take is that you have NOT tried everything (letting go, dating, getting tough with him to name a couple)What most people sound like to me when they say this is "This way hasn't worked,but I don't want to admit it to myself so I will keep trying more and more of what isn't working until there is nothing left to give. How sad for me to observe this.

Quote:
Do you relate to what he is doing? Is it just ego? Possessiveness? Narcissism? I know mind-reading is a no-no but I just don't get it. I feel like maybe I am missing something here, that it is me that rejects him over and over...I don't know. Just looking for the guy perspective and with my own mental well-being in mind (more than DBing) I want to keep myself together.


Don't get caught up in this "mind reading nonsense." It is okay to mind read. That is just more psycho babble. We all do some mind reading. Any man who doesn't learn to try and read what his wife means is foolish. My wife loves it when I can "read her mind" (or as I put it, know her so well that I know when and how to empathize with her feelings without her having to ask or lay it out to me.) Smart men know this and use it to HELP the relationship. The key is learning how to use it as a PLUS in your relationship. The same goes for women. I like it when my wife knows when and how to deal with my moods and such. She isn't always right, but I love her for caring enough to at least trying to be in sinc with me. It shows she loves me and cares about me and wants to do things for me and WANTS to be ONE. I have read her mind even on that last comment. I bet I am right though.

The real answer to your question though is that your husband is acting like a child because you allow it. You have helped to create nothing more than a spoiled brat. He does it because he can.


I love to watch Andy Griffith.
There is some great truths in some of those episodes. The episode that reminds me of you and your husband goes like this.

A new boy moves to Mayberry and befriends Opie. The new boy is spoiled and gets whatever he wants from his parents. One day the new boy comes over with a new bike and is bragging to Opie about his new bike. Little Opie is in awe of the new boy and the new bike. The new boy says to Opie. “Don’t you know how to get what you want from your parents?” Opie is puzzled.

“Well, when they tell me no, I throw a tantrum or hold my breath until my face turns blue. It scares them so much when I do these things, that they then give me whatever I want.”

Well, Opie is amazed. “Is that all there is to it?”
“Yep” says the new boy.

Opie decides he is going to try these things on Andy. He heads down to the courthouse.
“Pa, I want a new bike.”
Andy tells him “no”
Opie falls on the floor and starts kicking and screaming and crying.
Andy has his head down not paying a bit of attention. He keeps his head down mired in his work and says to Opie. “What are you doing?”
Opie says. “I am having a tantrum”
Andy says. “Okay, don’t get your clothes dirty son.”
Opie finally gives that up and then walks up near Andy and breathes in deeply and starts holding his breath.
Andy waits for awhile and then says to Opie. “Now what are you doing?”
Opie says. “Holding my breath until my face turns blue”
Andy says. “Oh, okay. That’s good for your lungs.”

Opie finally gives up and realizes that this stuff isn’t working with Andy…

This reminds me of you. Your husband does these things BECAUSE he can and because YOU allow it. Sorry that this doesn’t contain enough psycho babble or deep thinking terms we can try to coin him. You are making more of this than necessary. Make it simple. He is a spoiled brat and acting like one. I would focus on putting an end to it. I don’t allow people to do these things to me. MY CHOICE.

Anger is the child's way of showing respect. Of course he will get angry when you change your ways and start to get "tough" with him. That is typical of spoiled brats.
My response to it if he does is ..."SO what"


I would ignore him, not answer his calls, not anwer his questions, not respond to his childishness, take him off face book, start dating, and only communicate the most necessary and basic things needed. Business like on the phone and then politely hang up. Over and over and over and over..

I would be thinking to myself and knowing who is the adult and who is the child. It wouldn't be up for negotiation. I may even do some "childish" things of my own. (secretly laughing.)

Sometimes the best way to deal with a child is to think and act like one. wink
Posted By: antlers Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 08:04 PM
You can stagger the doses of Tylenol and Motrin so that she is getting something every 2 hours, even though she is getting Tylenol every 4 hours and Motrin every 4 hours. And keep her drinking fluids.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 08:07 PM
Classic Gucci post.

And he's right -- his method will work.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Gucci...we are on the same page. :) - 08/16/09 08:56 PM
I said-

Quote:
By the way, dating is not just an option for me at this point, it is a directive I have given myself...I'm not fighting you on that point anymore!


Gucci said-

Quote:
Your decision. Even though it is like trying to bake a cake and missing the most important ingredient. You can still call it a cake and you can still try to bake it, but it doesn't come out the right way. You can have all the other ingredients perfect, but missing one of the most important makes the others useless too.


Gucci, darling, you misunderstood me...or I was not clear, dating is absolutely happening and imperative at this point. I got some attention while I was away and I can't argue your rationale anymore because you were RIGHT!!!

I have no qualms, I want to date for a multitude of reasons.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:00 PM
Quote:
A/K, I'll search later for you. I have to take care of d12 with a HIGH fever now. Can't seem to keep it down for long and it hit 104.8 last night, and on the digital thermometer it went over 105 but she was coherent, and funny and sacastic, etc. (Maybe that's the last thing to go). H is on call at the hospital so until he gets back I just want to get that fever down. We r not that big on ER visits as we know what they involve and she is taking fluids orally...oh well,


Oh my, good luck with that and please keep us posted!

I am doing great!

And, I'm so done with Kevin. I feel like a mouse on one of those wheels trying to get through to him.

EDITED - PERSONAL CONTACT INFORMATION is NOT ALLOWED. You must comply with the DivorceBusting.com Board Rules if you would like to continue the privilege of posting here.

Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:08 PM
Quote:
Another area I disagree with you and many others on. There is and has been nothing wrong with you. Nobody is perfect. You would be much further ahead if you would use better self talk such as admitting that you WERE a damn good wife and you have no regrets now. It seems to me it is ALWAYS the person who says "I want to say I did my best or that I tried everything" are always the ones that end up divorce and not reconciled. My take is that you have NOT tried everything (letting go, dating, getting tough with him to name a couple)What most people sound like to me when they say this is "This way hasn't worked,but I don't want to admit it to myself so I will keep trying more and more of what isn't working until there is nothing left to give. How sad for me to observe this.


Listen, I agree with you. I think I was a wonderful wife and I think I am a great woman. He'd be hard pressed to do better. But, when I was acting like most of the WAWs here, I think it was not good. And, really, your criticism of my psycho-babble here can extend to my controlling, neurotic and over-analytical tendencies in the marriage. I don't need to assign blame. The dynamic and H's behavior fueled my anxiety, but I will never look back and think, "ya, he deserved to have me roll my eyes at him or flip him off or tell him I hate him" just like I didn't deserve the sh*t he was pulling on me.

I am cool with changing some things. Letting go of my moral superiority and hard-headedness are part of it, you see? I mean I swore I would not go near another man until we were divorced and by violating that, I actually freed myself and am ultimately lightening up (one of the things I needed to do in my marriage)...I'm sure this is coming off as psycho-babble but, it makes sense to me. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:19 PM
Me-
Quote:

This is so juvenile but I haven't taken him off my page because I don't want to be provocative right now and he would actually take offense at that...I am too reliant on him for money and it is better if he thinks everything is ok.

Gucci-
Quote:
Poor me??? I guess you aren't serious about turning this around or you aren't convinced my advice works. I recommend that you take him of ASAP.Sooner the better. Looks like the cake is missing another ingredient. Turning this around or turning yourself around will take a lot more "who cares what you think" attitude. You aren't there. Sure wish you were.


Stick with me here Gucc, please. My #1 priority right now HAS to be my kids' well being. If and when I take H off, he will be humiliated because all of our mutual friends (other than my good friends) are getting his version of how it is all good with me. Now, I would love to make my point but as I am still completely reliant on him financially, I am reluctant to be provocative. I realize that this sounds silly but his ego can't take it. He'll retaliate. This week I will hopefully find out if I have money for a L.

Today I made what felt like a Kevin style mistake...I agreed to have lunch with H and the kids because he said they wanted to. I couldn't believe I was that easy!!! But, it went well, meaning my kids transitioned soooo much better and are so much more at ease. Normally S6 has a 3 hour tantrum when I get him from H. Today just went so smoothly. I looked good, felt good. Kept it light and the kids seemed to benefit from the experience.

I honestly do not have reconciling as my goal here. If the Gucc can work that miracle, ha, I'll hook you up with some producers and you can have your own reality show!! grin

I'm so much closer than you think I am...but keep on me. I can take it!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:39 PM
Oh, Gucci, 25, Coach...if H tries to connect me with people who can help with my business, how do I deal with that? I mean I would prefer to be completely separate but a) he knows sooo many people and b) I'm destitute and can't really justify turning away opportunities...

The communication when kids are involved is so complicated. I mean, I can stick to business and be "friendly" for their benefit, right?

I exhibit no interest in his life or what he is doing. I skip any emails or phone calls that are personal...

But, I am still in our house with most of his stuff here (annoying but actually beneficial to have assets here)...so there are lots of potential boundary issues. I make sure I am not here if he comes by and I don't extend myself for the most part.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/16/09 09:56 PM
Quote:
I think I am a great woman.

Concur.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled post.
Posted By: goingtofixME Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 01:06 PM
Don't think it. Know it! You have come such a long way in finding out how very strong you are. I applaud you! I do admit that we do need to look at our relationships and see what our mistakes are, but I am of the same opinion that a lot of the people on this site are not the horrible spouses the WAS tries to make us believe we are and we end up trying to accept the blame for their weakness. There is no excuse in my eyes for breaking your marriage vows and having an affair. If you honestly are not happy in your marriage you should either a) be strong enough to let your partner know that something is wrong and look to counseling or b) leave. I read an interesting article on cognitive dissonance and it totally opened my eyes as to what a person's mind does in order to justify doing something morally reprehensible like cheating, doing drugs, and the like. WASs don't want to feel as if what they did is so bad. And it's easier to hurt someone else and believe that the LBSs are the bad people and the LBS made the WAS do this in order to be able to live with themselves and their guilt. It's why WASs act as heinous as they do. It's to alleviate their own feelings about what they are doing and have done.

Right now in my STBXH's eyes, I am a cold calculating beyotch. I did not play nicey nice and roll over and let him have the easy way of getting his citizenship. I have paid a huge price for the lessons I have learned in my life and I will no longer be the person who makes his life any easier. His choice was to leave. It's my choice to let him live with his choices. Is it to be mean to him? No, it's actually so I can live with myself at the end of the day. He lost my friendship when he continued texting my ex bestfriend when I told him it was inappropriate and become more than "just friends" and left me and my children. My friendship included helping him out when he was in need. He chose to stop being my friend and so lost my help.

A&K, you will get here. You will get to this point.

Stacey, I added you on my FB. So if you got a request from a Shawna with the last initial F. That would be moi!

Anyone else can feel free to add me. I don't have too much to say here as I am not trying to save my marriage and I feel as if I am a Debbie Downer! LoL I do wish you all the best of luck!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 03:27 PM
Hi goingtofixME. I'm definitely getting it. Having the two young ones to co-parent requires me to be a bit more conscious of how I handle my relationship and our rapport. If I could just x him out that would be optimal but, I know that in reality, my kids will fare better if we are at least civil. It is just different.

What I really need help with here is the reality of communicating with him not the wishful thinking that I can just make him disappear. It is easy to make general assessments of what I need to do but in reality, there are so many little traps and pitfalls and these little kids in the middle.

Anyway, the most important thing is that I am detached and not pining for him. Above all else, I have my mind and soul back...the rest will work out.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 03:33 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


Today I made what felt like a Kevin style mistake...




AK,

If you start turning into Kevin, I'll kill myself.

These boards cannot take another Kevin.

Stacy
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 03:40 PM
LOL!!!!!!! Not gonna happen!!! And I'm not gonna tell you that H was nice to me and I think there's a chance...

My only MO is care of myself and my kids and the lunch seemed to be positive for my kids. That's it. And FYI, I was more than happy once it was over. I'm not looking for "opportunities to shine"...

OMG...you really gave me a good laugh. And with all due respect, I feel bad making fun because I understand Kevin and he is living according to his beliefs and how he is intrinsically motivated. Regardless of what we think or if we make fun of it, that is his comfort zone. All the power to him, really. Just would NEVER work for me.
Posted By: theroadback Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 05:35 PM
Who is Kevin? don't make me search, I'm lazy right now... what did he do?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 05:43 PM
Originally Posted By: theroadback
Who is Kevin? don't make me search, I'm lazy right now... what did he do?


LOL. In a nutshell, Kevin's religious zealotry has kept him from detaching and focusing on himself. He basically can't detach IMO because he doesn't believe in divorce or that he can ever remarry...it is a church thing. Apologies to Kevin for my oversimplification.

When he makes progress, the slightest gesture of decency from his wife sets his heart aflutter and he seems to live for those moments IMO.

Anyway, whereas, I should not have been available to have lunch with my H, I didn't have the presence of mind to say no...just went in for it. Kevin will rarely miss an opportunity to see his W...it is always a chance to fix it or make a better impression.

I feel kind of cruel referring to him but I do learn so much about what not to do and where I do not want to be emotionally by reading his thread. If it works for him, all the power to him.

He is K4D...I think.
Posted By: K4D Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 05:58 PM
That would be me.

Kevin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 06:04 PM
Good for you, chiming in Kevin. I hope you know that I KNOW that you have to do what you have to do...it is YOUR life.

We do all learn a lot from you.
Posted By: K4D Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 06:15 PM
Glad I can be an educational resource.

Kevin
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 07:43 PM
[quoteJust would NEVER work for me. [/quote]

Um, it's not working for him, either.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 07:44 PM
But I agree, that his sitch is very compelling as far as what not to do.

In fact I've told a couple people to read his thread and then do the opposite.

And then he posted that he agreed. I hope he's getting it!!
Posted By: K4D Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/17/09 07:45 PM
I am. I posted a new post to show I am.

Kevin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 12:34 AM
Today is MILs birthday. H just texted that she would like to have dinner all together...me and the kids included.

I'm no where near up for it and the kids are tired (I was gonna get them to bed early)...

thoughts? I am close with MIL. Not sure why nothing was planned in advance. Oh, probably because when I was in wife mode I would have been planning. Duh...
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 12:38 AM
I'd tell him you can't make it, kids are tired, no notice, etc.

Could you call her and ask her to have lunch with you and the kids??
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 01:04 AM
Great. Thanks.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:26 AM
AAK,

I wanted you to know that I apologized to Kevin on his thread.

Not trying to shred someone here.

Back to regularly scheduled programming - to quote SP.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:30 AM
Ya DW, I thought that was very cool. I don't think you did anything wrong actually, I just could feel for him...
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:31 AM
Me too -- and he was a GREAT sport about it.

He had GREAT potential to turn this around and I sincerely hope he does.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:00 AM
It irks me that H calls almost everyday to grill the kids about what they did that day...I hear S9 saying things like, "yep, it was just with mommy, nope, no one else"...it is not worth addressing right now, he won't admit he is doing it, he'll just say he is interested in the kids.

Anyway, just a minor vent. I will be posting soon regarding the important actions and decisions I need to make and I'm looking forward to input.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:08 AM
Typical -- let it go.

AAK - he's SO textbook!!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:47 PM
H knows I'm a bit sick...texted lasted night "you feeling alright?"

Am I to ignore this? Feels a bit petty.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:52 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H knows I'm a bit sick...texted lasted night "you feeling alright?"

Am I to ignore this? Feels a bit petty.


Yes, and it's not petty...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:54 PM
Seriously, if he was sick with the kids and I asked him, and he ignored me, I'd find it really silly.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 02:59 PM
I obviously need to get clearer on what I'm doing in the communication department. I do ignore most communications but I don't want to convey contempt or hostility or that I'm so distraught I can't even communicate, none of which is true...I am in a much more neutral place.

It just seems pissier than I really feel to ignore certain communications.

Help set me straight here, please.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:08 PM
Just do what my W would have done to me when I sent her such a text -- a 1-word answer: "fine"

It answers the question, fills the requirement to respond, and still leaves him unsatisfied (believe, me, I know laugh ).
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:11 PM
Why would I do what your wife would have done?

I mean, I'm cool with one word but it still seems so pissy.

I think I need to get clear on what I'm doing because in this area it isn't coming naturally. I'm not pissed or hostile right now. I am just living my life.

Plus, I'm not fine, I have a head cold, dammit. wink
Posted By: Thinker Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:13 PM
Depends on what you want. If you want to hook him and keep his mind on you, then use the 1-word answer.

you reply "just a cold"

which is a bit longer and less snippy, but still minimal.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:18 PM
What I want is to have stability and sanity for my kids and myself...hooking him in may or may not contribute to that goal.

Seriously, I want to get out of the mindset of trying to save the M and into the mindset of negotiating effectively and getting what I deserve in our D. If by some miracle a R happened, good, I guess, but I am just not seeing it anymore.

So, my communication should lead to what is going to benefit me and my kids.

And, yes, Gucci if you're checking in, I read your advice. Is the goal hooking him in or moving on with my life? Cuz I want to follow your advice but then I need MAJOR support in dealing with the potential drama...
Posted By: Coach Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:28 PM
Quote:
Cuz I want to follow your advice but then I need MAJOR support in dealing with the potential drama...


You avoid drama by ignoring it. Drama is a way for people to get their way. Drama is not behavior you want to reward.

Quote:
What I want is to have stability and sanity for my kids and myself...


Would that be a drama free place?????????????? confused
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:32 PM
Ok Coach, but please help me here. Ignoring, we obviously know, "hooks" in the other person more than a short response.

I don't get any drama if I am short and set boundaries (I don't respond to personal stuff, or the poem etc) but an inquiry about my health, not sure.

Oh, and I'm harping on this one because I want to get clear and stay on track. Thanks!
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:50 PM
Quote:
Is the goal hooking him in or moving on with my life? Cuz I want to follow your advice but then I need MAJOR support in dealing with the potential drama...



MOVING ON WITH YOUR LIFE...

Hooking him in may be a side bonus..

They don't come back until you let go. Let go...

Time for you to start setting the "rules".... grin

I told you the other day.. He is a drama "queen".. because you have allowed him to be...

Time to start showing him.. NO MORE.

You seem like a very intelligent woman. My take is that you are as addicted to the drama as he is. Drama sometimes keeps us from facing reality or the ho hum of everyday life or from boredom... It seems like you want to be the better arguer or find some great verbal comment that will suddenly wake him up..

Go read Redsoxfan's new thread.... It is the script that I keep pointing out to you and others...

Check out when he "suddenly" decided he couldn't live without his wife. Textbook of what I keep saying...

Your choice... It isn't about anyting but YOU MOVING ON. If he comes back because he senses that you have moved on,then that is a bonus and gives you yet another choice. It will give you negotiating power for him to make necessary changes. If not, it doesn't matter because you have moved on. It is a decision to move on just as it is a decision to love someone.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:52 PM
I'm with Coach on this...

Besides, isn't your health personal, too?

Is it that much different than asking you how you're feeling emotionally?

Is he asking for your sake or for his... to make him feel good because he thought to ask? I know this requires mind-reading, but do you even care if he cares?

Ignoring it isn't pissy, it's detached... Thinking about it so much isn't... ;->

If it really matters to him and you don't answer, he'll ask again... At which point, to stop the drama, perhaps a simple "I'll be just fine" kills two birds with one stone.

But, like you, I'm wondering what Gooch says here...
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:52 PM
Oops... He types faster than I do... grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 03:58 PM
Gucci!!!!!! Wait, please. I get it. But with questions like this, about me being sick etc. should I give a short answer and end it at that? Or nothing at all. I see ignoring as creating more drama IF his communication is reasonable and in this case, I think it is.

What about the work thing and him wanting to connect me with his friend? I told him to go ahead and give her my number but I don't want him in the middle. I would rather not deal with him at all and do it on my own but it does cut me off from a lot of opportunities. I think it is better to just really be separate

Also, we have huge money issues to deal with and may be filing for bankruptcy...lots of communication required in that case.

I'm telling you, I have been doing well at not engaging with him. Actually, it has been great. I just don't need to be provocative unless it will benefit me.

I hope I'm making sense.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:01 PM
Quote:
Ignoring it isn't pissy, it's detached... Thinking about it so much isn't... ;->


I am thinking about it because I want to get on a track and stay on it. So far I have not responded. This is about being methodical, not my former mindset of hoping to hook him in. I care little about what he thinks...I care about the results of my actions.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:11 PM
Don't forget that any actions/reactions on his part function largely based on what is going on inside his celebrity-addled mind. How he reacts will largely depend on what he is emotionally projecting onto your response at any given moment. You don't have as much control as you think you have. That is scary, but also freeing. There is no magic answer ... no magic answer to hook him back, *and* no magic answer to make him an amicable co-parent/financial partner. So give yourself a break and try not to angst so much about how to respond to one-line queries.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:13 PM
Also, as of right now, h is giving me money and I am able to navigate that. I am sure this feeds into my fear in dealings with him. I feel very vulnerable. I am working on finding a way out but it is challenging and is taking time.

Still, I have been able to set boundaries and keep them and I feel good about that; I just know that my dependence influences my perception.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:17 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
Ignoring it isn't pissy, it's detached... Thinking about it so much isn't... ;->


I am thinking about it because I want to get on a track and stay on it. So far I have not responded. This is about being methodical, not my former mindset of hoping to hook him in. I care little about what he thinks...I care about the results of my actions.



Understood. Mostly teasing you. But, as I read the above, I hear most to say that no matter your goal or track, ignoring has its merits.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:23 PM
Quote:
What I want is to have stability and sanity for my kids and myself...hooking him in may or may not contribute to that goal.... want to get out of the mindset of trying to save the M and into the mindset of negotiating effectively and getting what I deserve in our D. If by some miracle a R happened, good, I guess...my communication should lead to what is going to benefit me and my kids.


Alive, my friend. Having survived another grueling day, I'm waiting for a grueling night and thought I'd check in with you. (And by "grueling" I mean "grueling," not "grueling ;-)".

I commend you on your mindset. You've had what I had in my Big Midwestern City moment. And you're absolutely sound in your intuition that communication is now key -- not merely communication, per se, but effective communication, the nature and extent of which can keep you on, or knock you off, Your Path.

The tone. The tenor. The tempo.

(Hey, that could be a chapter in SP's Great American Divorce Book -- "Tone, Tenor, Tempo: Talking To WAS")

Remember the thought balloons. You're Walking Your Path and Rolling Your Way. And one element of that is Class, with a Capital "C." You've got it; Monsoor Le Shmedlap hasn't.

So you reply. Because that's what someone with Class does.

And you say, "Tough head cold but it won't be fatal; thanks for asking." The tone is itself tough -- notice that there's no pronoun "I".

The tenor is cooperative -- you texted me, I texted you, I don't pretend that you don't exist (thought balloon, you heartless scum-sucking pig), and I acknowledge and validate your inquiry into my personal well-being (thought balloon, though I suspect it's totally self-serving).

And the tempo is moderated -- not an obviously snippy "fine" but not a blabby "Oh, gosh, I got this cold, and my nose is so runny, and and and golly what else can I say I'm so desperate to talk with you O Swell One...."

Nuttin' pers'nal -- jus' bidness.

And remember, not every communication has to be "about" DB'ing or D'ing. So not every communication has to be primped, puffed, and perfumed to meet some rather arbitrary test of the DB Kung-fu. In fact, I would argue that Working Your Mojo means doing things that don't contribute to DB'ing, but just get the job done.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:34 PM
Quote:
...
And you say, "Tough head cold but it won't be fatal; thanks for asking." The tone is itself tough -- notice that there's no pronoun "I".

The tenor is cooperative -- you texted me, I texted you, I don't pretend that you don't exist (thought balloon, you heartless scum-sucking pig), and I acknowledge and validate your inquiry into my personal well-being (thought balloon, though I suspect it's totally self-serving).

...Nuttin' pers'nal -- jus' bidness.



I always love Smiley's "thought-balloons"!

Don't know if I agree with the "Thanks for asking"...

But, the last part

Quote:
...Nuttin' pers'nal -- jus' bidness.


...is what it all boils down to... whether or not one is wearing Lederhosen...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:40 PM
Ya, if I was going to respond, I wouldn't thank him for asking...

I am not responding because I just don't feel like it right now.

If he asks again, maybe I'll answer.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:40 PM
Originally Posted By: Kettricken
Don't forget that any actions/reactions on his part function largely based on what is going on inside his celebrity-addled mind. How he reacts will largely depend on what he is emotionally projecting onto your response at any given moment. You don't have as much control as you think you have. That is scary, but also freeing. There is no magic answer ... no magic answer to hook him back, *and* no magic answer to make him an amicable co-parent/financial partner. So give yourself a break and try not to angst so much about how to respond to one-line queries.


Good points.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:43 PM
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:44 PM
You know, Alex my brother, Alive my sister. If the UPS deliverer was delivering a delivery to me, and I sneezed, and deliverer said, "Got a cold?" I'd say, "Yesh, but it isn't too bad, thanks for asking."

Thanks is what those of us -- i.e., we Band of DB'ers -- with manners and decency and the milk of human kindness running through our veins do.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:46 PM
Ya, too bad. He's not the UPS deliverer. grin
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:53 PM
Smiley makes a good point, though. If, on receiving any communication, you recast it as though coming from an acquaintance or relative stranger ... how would you respond? That might take it out of the endless, fruitless, cheeseless "But what does he/she REALLY mean and/or what is he/she trying to sneakily accomplish????" pit of big waste o'mind.
Posted By: Coach Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 04:55 PM
Quote:
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.


I handle referrals this way. Please give me their contact info and let them know I willing be calling them. That way the responsiblity is on you to follow thru.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:03 PM
Yep Coach. Call me paranoid but him hooking me up with a female he describes as one of his closest friends (despite the fact that she has to be part of his new crew) leads me to believe this is just more enmeshment...a potential trap.

I'll let her initiate contact and see how it goes since that is what I told him I would do.

He had asked me for my resume to try to help me find a job and I refused; I just don't want that level of involvement but it is hard to justify when I am jobless.

BUT, I know him and I know that anything that involves him has a potential, a likelihood to lead to future drama. So for now, I'm gonna keep it as clean as possible.

Jeez, I'm longwinded.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:06 PM
Originally Posted By: Kettricken
Smiley makes a good point, though. If, on receiving any communication, you recast it as though coming from an acquaintance or relative stranger ... how would you respond? That might take it out of the endless, fruitless, cheeseless "But what does he/she REALLY mean and/or what is he/she trying to sneakily accomplish????" pit of big waste o'mind.


Well, what I like is that a specific approach.."Treat him as a relative stranger" gives me something I can adhere to easily.

Gucci, Coach...do you agree with this tact?

Or do you think "ignore"?
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:18 PM
"seems pissy"?

A/K come on! Who gives a crap how it "seems" to him?

really. Just ignore it, or let him feel heroic for asking OR get mad at you for not answering him or whatever....but again, you are letting HIS REACTiON to you, or your fear of it, dictate what YOU DO. AT MOST, I'd give a one word answer only b/c he can know that you are well enough to care for the kids -which I'm sure is HIS biggest concern, and not looking good to himself--and you don't need him to come and rescue you to help with the kids (b/c that is SO LIKELY....)?

(( ))
j-
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:27 PM
A/K sweetie,

I just find that this is much ado about nothing...a bit. I mean, I get it. But you have to know that you are allowing yourself to be sucked in with his idiotic drama (from MIDDLE SCHOOL) over a TEXT message!

Just do what you must if this bugs you so much. But keep it short please......(and can't find you on fb by the way, what group?)

and for the record, I thought Gucci's last post was spot on.
j-
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:42 PM
I agree this is silly. It is less about this text and more about getting clear about my approach in general so I don't spend time on it.

Alive Kicking is a fan of DB on FB...

I have to be honest with myself that my fear of losing financially, friends etc is still influencing me.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 05:57 PM
I couldnt agree more with 25yrs. Too much brain wasted over nothing. In the great scheme of things, a text will not bring him back or push him away.

And just for Gucci: H said he wanted back (I was polite friendly to him but completely detached), when I fell in love with a wonderful man. At that time, his A was going downhill but OW was still talking about moving in together so not that bad...
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:04 PM
Ok. I am not trying to get him back. I am trying to communicate in the way that will position me best in negotiating finances and other items until I can retain an attorney.

And it is not about this text, it is about setting boundaries that are clear and reasonable that I stick to.

Other people commented on hooking him in and that is NOT what I want to do.

So the energy spent here is not about bringing him back or pushing him away (very broad concepts) but trying to live the very consequential realities of my sitch.

I hope I am being clearer. I really need help staying on track and "Moving On." I wish moving on meant just packing up and heading for the hills but as it is, moving on requires regular communication and negotiation.

BTW- Kalni, you're a Goddess and don't you forget it!
Posted By: Kalni Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:12 PM
I am at a similar position. And was endangering my position going nuts lately.

BUT, boundaries are set by consistency. By actions. By tone of voice. By choosing your battles wisely. Last time I went thru this, it worked. I am back on the saddle to make it work again.

Regular communication sucks. I was dreading it while I was on vacation. Today, I "switched". He is not allowed to touch me anymore. And if he does, he will never know.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:14 PM
I don't get it. You are acting as if you have some financial security WITH him and you don't.

He is NOT reliable so how do you lose by enforcing boundaries financially? As in getting a legal order for support so you don't have to keep asking him and hoping he pays enough and isn't borrowing money or spending it like a drunken sailor and blah blah blah. ALL THIS POWER TO HIM and yet he is NOT reliable.

What are you losing by enforcing something with him? YES You are letting your financial insecurity dictate and I think it's irrational b/c you think you have $$ security with him, in the face of overwhelming evidence that you do not...that's the thing.
j-

Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:19 PM
And once again, DB fans, 25 hits one out of the park.

Stacy
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:19 PM
Quote:
BUT, boundaries are set by consistency. By actions. By tone of voice. By choosing your battles wisely
.

This issue of consistency is exactly why I chose to bring this text issue to the board. So I can make a clear decision about how I am going to interact with H and stick to it.

I feel like I'm speaking Chinese. I get that I have to set boundaries and be consistent; I am here to define what that will be so I can implement it.

Trust me, I had already detached pretty well but your sitch really drove home that I must take care of me and not make concessions.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 06:27 PM
Originally Posted By: 25yearsmlc
I don't get it. You are acting as if you have some financial security WITH him and you don't.

He is NOT reliable so how do you lose by enforcing boundaries financially? As in getting a legal order for support so you don't have to keep asking him and hoping he pays enough and isn't borrowing money or spending it like a drunken sailor and blah blah blah. ALL THIS POWER TO HIM and yet he is NOT reliable.

What are you losing by enforcing something with him? YES You are letting your financial insecurity dictate and I think it's irrational b/c you think you have $$ security with him, in the face of overwhelming evidence that you do not...that's the thing.
j-




Here me out please. Right now, I can get H to give me what I ask for most of the time. The insecurity comes from me not having a steady income and my dependence on him. Without a good/great lawyer, I will get no where near what I am getting now. He has already given me more than I would get for child support. The alimony needs to be hashed out plus his diminished income and refusal to go get a job (he could easily make 4-5 times what I can) are issues that a great lawyer can address.

Regardless, I am going to meet with H soon to agree on a monthly amount and I will move into a cheaper place (lease is up here soon and it is waaay too expensive). I would love to discuss this with you IRL.

I have a modicum of control with H right now. I am hopefully going to find out this week if something I am selling will garner me enough money to move and hire an attorney.

While I do not have financial security, I do have most of the bills paid.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 07:16 PM
So, putting the text saga to bed. I had to send H an email about $ so I mentioned that I have a head cold but I'm alright, thanks for asking...

That felt comfortable to me as I have asked him to please communicate via email anyway (I prefer to not have those damn text messages springing up willy nilly).

Anyway, I guess I just have to handle things as they come though I would LOVE to be clearer and more consistent.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:25 PM
Lightbulb moment, reading someone else's thread...I forgot that I can "handle it" regardless of what comes up...duh!
Posted By: Coach Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:34 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Lightbulb moment, reading someone else's thread...I forgot that I can "handle it" regardless of what comes up...duh!


how do you know?
Posted By: K4D Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:36 PM
Sounds like you have it under control.

K4D
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:44 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Lightbulb moment, reading someone else's thread...I forgot that I can "handle it" regardless of what comes up...duh!


how do you know?


Trick question?

My best answer? Because I've already done the hardest part and the rest is just logistics. I ain't gonna die...and even if I did, I'd be dead so...

Why fear?
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:47 PM


how do you know? [/quote]



My best answer? Because I've already done the hardest part and the rest is just logistics. I ain't gonna die...and even if I did, I'd be dead so...

Why fear? [/quote]

AAK - you're on your way!!

Yes, yes, yes.

Very proud of you - you've made remarkable gains. Keep the good work going.

Stacy
Posted By: MrBond Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:47 PM
Exactly! now tattoo that on your body somewhere so you remember it. Chant it when the times are the toughest.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:48 PM
Originally Posted By: K4D
Sounds like you have it under control.

K4D


LOL! On the contrary, all I have under control is my commitment to detach and focus on myself and my kids. Everything else is like Mr. Toad's Wild Ride...I'm just watching from the sidelines these days rather than getting on...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:49 PM
Originally Posted By: stuck808
now tattoo that on your body somewhere so you remember it.


Not a bad idea! Seriously, I'm going to consider it. You think the forehead would be overkill?

BTW Stuck, how's your sitch? Tried to find you but couldn't...
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 08:53 PM
If you tattoo it on your forehead, remember to do it so you can read it in the mirror!!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:04 PM
I think I'll get "handle it" tattooed on my a$$ so my next mate knows what my expectations are.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:06 PM
Oh, my.... blush
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:34 PM
Quote:
I think I'll get "handle it" tattooed on my a$$ so my next mate knows what my expectations are.


grin HHHMMM....

If my wife had that tattooed on her a$$ I am sure I would "handle it"..... laugh
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:41 PM
Ha, Gucci, how'd I know you'd get that? wink
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:41 PM
Way to serve it up over the plate, AK.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:49 PM
I can't pretend I know what you mean Kett...
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:52 PM
It was a pretty easy target!
smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:55 PM
At least I know now how to get you all to my thread! LOL

I may be broke and divorcing but I'll have me some fun even on DB...

And this is seriously the first time I've really considered getting a tattoo!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 09:58 PM
Ok I think the plate comment was a baseball reference...duh. I'm sportily impaired.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:09 PM
AAK,

Must be something on the DB forum.

I'm thinking of getting a tattoo, too!!

Stacy
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:11 PM
Where? grin
Posted By: Silver Fox Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:15 PM
Quote:
And this is seriously the first time I've really considered getting a tattoo!


Quote:
I'm thinking of getting a tattoo, too!!


Me three!
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:20 PM
Silver,

What are you thinking of getting?

I teach special needs 3 and 4 year olds, and special education has a "ribbon". I know -- every cause has a ribbon now. But the ribbon is a set of interlocking puzzle pieces. I just love it.

Trying to decide where I would get it placed. I don't want it to be seen by the general public.

Stacy
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:26 PM
Actually, the jigsaw puzzle ribbon is for Autism awareness. But I do love it -- and I always have students on the autism spectrum in my classroom.
Posted By: Silver Fox Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:28 PM
Well,

I teach dance ed. to middle schoolers (talk about MLC!). We don't have a particular "ribbon".

I've been thinking about a blue bird on my shoulder. Get it?
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:34 PM
Yeah, it seems like to have a ribbon, there needs to be some sort of problem - mostly diseases.

And I'm not saying that Autism is a disease -- it's not.

I like your idea, though. Where on your shoulder -- do you care if general people can see it?

Stacy
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:39 PM
Dunno if you'd like my take on this... but here goes...

I know body art is all the rage, but ladies, please don't get a tattoo. In my humble opinion they are tacky and mark a woman as cheap.

Sure it's a symbol of "rebellion" but ask yourselves, what are you rebelling against? Your morals? Your strength?

You don't need a semi-permanent marker on your body. You already know who and what you are.

Just a humble opinion from a guy.
Posted By: Silver Fox Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:40 PM
Probably more on the shoulder blade area so that I can cover it easily enough.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:46 PM
I heard that if you get it in an area w/more fat, it hurts less.
Posted By: Silver Fox Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:50 PM
Are we going to ignore him?!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 10:54 PM
No, I appreciate the input and I doubt I'll go so far as to do it. Just fun to think about. Maybe I'll just get a stamp made and I can stamp it on there when necessary... wink
Posted By: Silver Fox Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 11:32 PM
AK,

Just wanted to say I've been reading and admiring your posts and those of others on this thread. You get some very profound advice and it's helped me immensely as well.

Sorry for the tattoo hijack!
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/18/09 11:33 PM
I used to kind of agree with Gnosis, but I am not as sure any more. I think pretty small is good, and in a place where you can choose invisible, or not. I'd stay away from skulls, though!

My tbx got one around her ankle recently, I kind of like that.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:08 AM
Can someone bring me some chicken noodle soup, please?
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:10 AM
(((((AAK)))))

Might be cold by the time it gets there.... where are you?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:13 AM
L.A...not too bad, I can heat it up.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:22 AM
Almost next door!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:23 AM
I just can't believe I'm sick, not part of my plan. cry

LOL.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:25 AM
It never is, is it? Allergies, maybe?

Drink, drink, drink! No, not that!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 12:36 AM
Na, not allergies. I actually think that I've been in some hyper-immune state all these months and now that I am less stressed, it is hitting me...don't know if that makes sense. I'm a health nut so I know what to do...can usually nip these things pretty fast.

Lots of water of course!
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 01:16 AM
And that chicken soup! smile
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 04:26 PM
And this is seriously the first time I've really considered getting a tattoo!

I'm thinking of getting a tattoo, too!!

Me three!

Me four.
Posted By: hoosiermama Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 04:35 PM
they seem to be like potato chips--can't have just one.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/19/09 05:07 PM
I highly recommend NOT getting a tattoo at this juncture. The likelihood that what we would choose today will match what we want etched on our bodies a year from now is pretty slim.

I can't even decide what I want for lunch, where I want to live, how I want to make a living...I sure as sh*t am not gonna commit to branding something on my bod.

I'm going with the stamp idea instead! Ha, how funny would that be? I can stamp "handle it" on my a** to give future mate a heads up when he's not TCB.

This conversation should stay in jest. Just my two cents.
Posted By: theroadback Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 06:13 PM
well nice to meet ya Kevin.
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 06:33 PM
(((((AAK)))))

I hope you are feeling better this morning!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 07:00 PM
Originally Posted By: theroadback
well nice to meet ya Kevin.


huh?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 07:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Virtually_Handsome
(((((AAK)))))

I hope you are feeling better this morning!


just plowing through it. Thanks!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:11 PM
today is 14 year anniversary of when h and i went from friends to lovers...cute story. we always celebrated this day.

didn't come up when i dropped kids off this morning.

anyhoo... whistle
Posted By: Thinker Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:36 PM
3 days ago was the 12-year Anniversary of our engagement. Neither of us mentioned it...

1001 little reminders...

Keep the PMA up!
Posted By: Dia Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:40 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
today is 14 year anniversary of when h and i went from friends to lovers...


That's Easter for us. We spent three days and nights closeted in my bedroom in my grad-student, 4-roommates house with a sign on the fridge that said, "You have not seen us. You do not know where we are. These are not the droids you're looking for."

And even during the sep. we each get mushy and call or email each other on Easter, V-day and on our anniversary.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:40 PM
Ya, surprisingly, I'm okay...

Our first night together was wonderful. Our wedding was wonderful. So much of our life together was wonderful. And I can think about without crying and wanting to impale myself. I am grateful for the memories.

Of course, there is a little twang of sadness but it is manageable...

And you, you're about to enter the DB big league. grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:43 PM
Quote:
And even during the sep. we each get mushy and call or email each other on Easter, V-day and on our anniversary.


I don't know if that is better or worse...probably better when you're not detached and worse when you are.
Posted By: Dia Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:49 PM
<laughing> I don't know if it's better or worse either, but I'm looking forward to our anniv. this year because of it. laugh
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:58 PM
Ya, despite my glowing detachment, I have had to resist urges to remind H of the date... wink

let it come and go. Here's something I wrote on our actual anniversary (through streaming tears)...so much better now!



anniversary

just a day
no longer momentous
just a day
barely a flicker
just a day
that was once so much more
just a day
a promise
a kiss
just a day
Posted By: theroadback Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 08:59 PM



[
grin [/quote]
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: theroadback
well nice to meet ya Kevin.


huh?


Who is Kevin? don't make me search, I'm lazy right now... what did he do?


That would be me.

Kevin

well nice to meet ya Kevin

I was just trying to be polite ..
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 09:01 PM
Originally Posted By: theroadback



[
grin
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: theroadback
well nice to meet ya Kevin.


huh?


Who is Kevin? don't make me search, I'm lazy right now... what did he do?


That would be me.

Kevin

well nice to meet ya Kevin

I was just trying to be polite ..
[/quote]

Got it. wink
Posted By: theroadback Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 09:05 PM
My anniversary comming up also, I think I'm just just going blow it off.

or what the H@ll maybe I'll get a tatoo myself, ya a phoenix or something.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 09:08 PM
Originally Posted By: theroadback
My anniversary comming up also, I think I'm just just going blow it off.

or what the H@ll maybe I'll get a tatoo myself, ya a phoenix or something.


I don't know why the "what the H@ll" made me LOL...something about you just branding yourself for life on whim...maybe. grin
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 10:09 PM
Do NOT get a tattoo for your anniversary. That's like getting the Mark of the Beast on your body b/c of an idiot WAS. And yeah, I'm a bit of a snob about what tattoos represent, not to mention how MLC they are AND besides, having worked in a hospital with a burn unit, I'll NEVER understand why someone would harm their skin intentionally....might need it for a graft someday...

Anyhow, anniversary---"just a day"...."just a day that lead to the lives of two new people in my world" and now, the departure of a 3rd person who became a parasite...oh well. Plan something for you & nope, you don't have to take your kids to Italy but make sure YOU are happy & busy then. No reminders...

And the "modicum" of financial security you feel with your h, A/K is an illusion.

Find that "good/great lawyer" in YOUR UNCLE (??) and fix your sitch so you don't keep finding excuses to convince yourself you still need all this drama in your life. You don't.

Your h offers NO FINANCIAL SECURITY at all. How you convinced yourself he did, b/c he SOMETIMES pays you more than child support, in THIS state which allows for alimony AND goes by what he is capable of earning not what he is now earning/under-earning, AND the disparity in your ability to earn (IOW a good state for YOU), is beyond me.

But you have to snap out of this. Now. Get with the program....

J-
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 10:55 PM
Ok 25. I am either sucking at communicating or you skimmed cuz,

A) The tattoo thing was in jest and about a page ago I made the same case for why NOT to get a tattoo, especially in the midst of all this.

B) Anniversary day today is no biggie. The poem was from 3 months ago and I know why I felt that way and I feel much better today. I thought I made that clear...that I have gratitude for what it was.

C) My relative L will charge me $5K for a retainer and $495 an hour so without money, it is not happening right now (I am waiting to find out if something I am trying to sell will pan out)

D) With no money and overhead that is too high, as of this exact moment, I am covered by H. It is not "financial security" and I don't see it as that but I need an exit strategy and I need money to cover me in the interim if H pulls back on me. Again, hopefully the item I am selling will come through. I should know soon or on to Plan B (yet to be hashed out).

E) The work, alimony, assets issues are complex and I have gotten very different takes from two different Ls as to what I can expect and it is a toss up. There are also tax ramifications (H has a corp and pays little in taxes, alimony I receive will be taxable plus other issues beyond my scope). And, H wants to declare bankruptcy...it is complicated. I am eager to get representation so I am not flying blind.

I am SO fine today. I am just doing a regular day of working, straightening up and maybe checking out a meditation class tonight. I don't need to fill my day or be distracted because I am fine. I mentioned the anniversary here because I am not mentioning it to him and I actually found it interesting how much easier it is today than it was just a few months ago.

And, the drama is being handled by moi. If H texts or calls, I don't respond. If he emails (kid or biz related), I do. Short but sweet. And he gave me the money I asked him for today with very little question.

By NO means am I suggesting I have this all figured out. And, there may be drama and I may come on here for advice but the circumstances are complex and I am not a hasty person. It is tough to stagnate and I get your frustration but I am not gonna go off half cocked without representation...I just can't right now.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 11:01 PM
I hear ya, but the tattoo comments were also half in jest. I mean I guess I don't really like them But definitely think getting one b/c of THOSE WAS's is a mistake....more like erasing them makes more sense to me.

Sorry your uncle is so expensive. Thank GOD he's family....um, no comment. Okay I will comment. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That's what he'd charge YOU!??
no wonder people tell me L jokes all the time. They're not jokes; they're insults and true stories...
Crap...
j-
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 11:11 PM
Uh, ya, I cried my little eyes out when he told me his rates. He isn't considered a shark for no reason. But, I made peace with it. He's old and an a**hole and he doesn't want to work for less than he's worth. I've accepted it.

I'm with you on the tattoo thing. I made a joke about getting "handle it" tattooed on my a** so my next mate knows what my expectations are and well, it became a conversation. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/19/09 11:12 PM
One thing though, H doesn't know that he will charge me so as of now, I have some leverage there.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 01:03 AM
25,

If you have a minute, check on Shan5665 in NewComer's - he needs some help.

AAK - you might want to check in too.

Sorry for the hi-jack.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 01:23 AM
Quote:
Sorry for the hi-jack.


Never a problem...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 04:37 AM
Went to a guided meditation class today. Wow was that great!
Posted By: MrBond Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 09:26 PM
Great to hear that.

BTW, thanks for asking about my sitch. We went on a family vacation a couple of weeks ago which went great. She opened up more and overall had a good time. Right now she's heading downhill in the emotional roller coaster dept.

She's again seeming down and not taking much pleasure in things with the kids. I really do wish she'd see a doc about it. I've been debating whether or not to talk to her about it.

Last week she asked for my SSN to put me down as a beneficiary for her 401k. Weird for someone who wants me out as a spouse.

I've jumped off the emotional rollercoaster and am just watching her go up and down the curves on her own.

I don't know if you saw this article before, but it kind of gives an idea of what I'm doing in my sitch with her...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/fashion/02love.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

I'm even debating if I should forward this article over to my W to show that she's not alone.

How are things today with you?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:04 PM
Hey Stuck. I read the article a while ago.

I'm doing well. Mostly trying to get clear on what my next moves are...and even though it is slow going, it's going.

I think I am going to go see an accountant to get clear on the tax issues. Maybe if I can iron out most of the details, we can actually get through this without it costing an arm and a leg.

I'm still waiting to hear about this piece I am trying to sell...aargh...it is quite a difference for me if it sells. I am trying to accept that it will work out however it should. So far, I am impressed with my discipline in staying calm and positive.

I cannot believe how well I am dealing with H. It is really wonderful. I am really sticking to my boundaries and still amicable and even today when he called me on something, I apologized and presented a reasonable solution. I am concise and pleasant and it feels great.

That new thread with the guy who wants his wife back kind of got to me. I mean mostly in that I can't even imagine how in the world H and I could ever be together which actually helps.

My heart has been and always will be open...to H or to other men or to whatever life brings me. It feels pretty incredible to say it and mean it.

Doesn't mean I'm never sad or disappointed or don't ever think, "what if...", it just isn't where I spend most of my time.

I want to read up on your sitch but haven't been able to find it...my only concern is that it can linger on and on without some catalyst or intervention. But, I want to read more about what is happening with you.

BTW- Posting to Kevin IS counterproductive at this point. I find it perverse how much attention he gets and I am committing to stopping even though my cackles go up and I'm tempted.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:06 PM
Quote:
I'm even debating if I should forward this article over to my W to show that she's not alone.


I think no on that...if you are taking the DB approach.
Posted By: davidswife Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:10 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


BTW- Posting to Kevin IS counterproductive at this point. I find it perverse how much attention he gets and I am committing to stopping even though my cackles go up and I'm tempted.


AAK,

Totally agree with you about Kevin.

And you're doing great, by the way. Good for you.

Stacy
Posted By: MrBond Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:11 PM
I'll put an update up a little later.

I am sorry to hear how much you've had to put up and give up in your sitch. I am glad to know that you've remembered what it's like to stand on your own two feet.

The thing about O and his sitch is that he really hadn't detached from his W. I was in the place he was and it's not a pretty area to be. She keeps reeling him in with promises of things like Retrovaille, so it's going to be up to him to live and learn.

Kevin's case is an interesting one though isn't it? It really is like watching a car crash in slow motion. We all know he's going to crash and burn, but we still read to see when it actually happens.

I'm still praying for you girl and the others.

{{{stuck}}}
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:16 PM
Oh, I wasn't referring to O, I was referring to RedSox...that sitch really makes me spin...

Quote:
I am sorry to hear how much you've had to put up and give up in your sitch. I am glad to know that you've remembered what it's like to stand on your own two feet.



Ha, I have no memory, this is new territory, a whole new world... wink

Ya, Kevin's a car crash but I don't want to be a part of it anymore, maybe just a lookiloo...

Thanks for the prayers!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Hmmm...Gucci, Coach, 25... - 08/20/09 10:18 PM
Quote:
AAK,

Totally agree with you about Kevin.

And you're doing great, by the way. Good for you.

Stacy


Thanks...feels good!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 12:14 AM
Our accountant is a friend of my H and is doing our taxes. I just remembered that he also has power of attorney..,I think I should undo that asap, yes? And how best do I get this done immediately?
Posted By: antlers Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 01:39 AM
Hey AAK. Just wanna let you know that I've been keeping up with your thread, and I've been sending good thoughts your way. Being here (and doing the kind of work that I do) and reading other peoples threads makes us realize that others have it just as bad, and oftentimes worse, than we do. You're having a tough go of it, and you've been at it a long time. I know you struggle, but you are strong...and you've gotten this way over time. Winston Churchill said "when you're going through hell...keep going!" And that's what I see you, and many others here, doing! Keep going. cool
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 02:50 AM
Thanks Antlers. Anyone got any ideas about the accountant issue? 25? I will be calling my parents' accountant tomorrow.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 03:24 PM
Anyone...?
whistle
Posted By: K4D Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 03:29 PM
I agree. 25 can probably tell you how.

Kevin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 03:35 PM
Thanks Kevin. Glad to read about your D's counseling.
Posted By: K4D Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 03:41 PM
I'm slowly getting things turned around.

Kevin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 05:45 PM
I called two accountants, neither of whom were in today (Fridays off??)...so I guess it'll have to wait till Monday. I find it a little unnerving so any input is appreciated.
Posted By: Coach Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 05:52 PM
The CPA can probably not do anything while you two are healthy with his POA. It most likely is for when you two would be unable to handle your business affairs.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/21/09 05:56 PM
Thanks Coach, I think I signed it so he could deal with a lien we had a long time ago. But this guy is an unstable alcoholic. Good accountant but a little hostile and a friend of H. I just don't want any monkey business...but sounds like I can relax about it for now.

I'm trying to be zen about everything...and it is going very well!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 12:50 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Thanks Antlers. Anyone got any ideas about the accountant issue? 25? I will be calling my parents' accountant tomorrow.


In a hurry this minute but just real quickly, a power of attorney, if given BY YOU, can be revoked by you at any time. Do the revocation in writing, even though that is not legally required, it's stupid and messy otherwise.... and pay a notary and make >two originals so you can mail one to the CPA AND if he registered or used it with any entities- you'd need to notify THEM. I assume he filed one with the IRS when he did your taxes?? IOW, why do you have the CPA?[i] Regardless, whomever he'd be dealing with on YOUR behalf, needs to know the POA has been revoked by you.
[/i]
Go make how ever many originals you need to make based on the number of entities that require notification, and this is NOT expensive --all the notary is doing is verifying your identity and that you don't seem drunk or crazy, (ie that you know what you are signing) and that's that.
Gotta run for now, and am having crappy internet issues lately too.

later though
j-

PS KEEP some originals yourself!!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 03:47 PM
Thanks 25!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 10:02 PM
Okie dokie. Just a little vent here and then going about my day.

Dropped kids off to H. Asked him if he might keep the kids an extra night next weekend. He said we should switch because he wanted to go to a friend's play anyway on his scheduled night. Well, I really wanted to go to same play that night (last night it is happening)...so I said it. He said oh, well maybe we could get the kids covered and go together...I didn't answer but I'm thinking nope, I will just have to miss it. Or there are two showings and I could find out which he is going to and go to the other but probably not worth the drama.

Then H texted that kids mentioned that I am taking them away with me for my upcoming b-day (relatively close trip). I said I am considering it but I will let him know via email what my plan is.

So, Mr. Petty Pants responds with a text about how he'll probably be in Europe with Rock Star and then later in the fall back in Europe and tropical island and he'd love to have the kids with him for at least a week or ten days...with "!!!"

Ok, so, I wanted to tell him to stop using our kids as pawns and just because he feels thwarted or out of control because I am now moving on and making plans for myself for my b-day, he doesn't have to interject his enthusiasm about taking the kids out of the country for over a week (something he knows I am not even amenable to and that is a much bigger deal for me than him as I have been with them almost every flippin day of their lives)...and never mind his bragging about his fabulous lifestyle that may or may not be even happening (while of course, he doesn't have a clue what he'll get paid, blah blah blah)!

Anyway, I skipped that response and just said "I will email you any pertinent info."

He's not stupid so hopefully he got my drift.

I have to say that while I don't miss him and I am being extra social and feeling good, I read about other sitches and still lament that ours is headed so narrowly toward D. I still sometimes wish there was a way...the beautiful thing is that I would have to be as convinced as he would if not more, so I don't feel so victimized or out of control. In all of my "ok-ness" I don't think I will ever be someone who can be glib about the hit my kids are taking...at least once a day some manifestation of their disappointment arises.

Thank heavens for me (and for everyone obviously), one can feel more than one feeling at a time. So, I can feel good and have a great day AND be a bit bummed about the "reality" of my sitch...

Really feeling warm fuzzies for all of the brilliant and generous people here. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 10:02 PM
BTW- 25, Is daughter doing alright???
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 10:46 PM
Quote:
how he'll probably be in Europe with Rock Star and then later in the fall back in Europe and tropical island and he'd love to have the kids with him for at least a week or ten days...with "!!!"


This would be a week or 10 days in the USA, right?

Because -- I'm sure it's not an issue, but it's an issue in the macro sense -- out-of-the-country is a b-a-d idea.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 10:56 PM
Oh no, as I indicated, that was why it was so provocative, because he was referring to out of country...which, he knows is not happening unless I am in tow...which is why it was such a weenie move...

So, it got me and then I remembered that when it comes down to it, he is JUST trying to get me. A) Let's see him get off his a** and get them passports and B) Let's see him figure out how to take them without my permission (not happening).

It was just a petty, feeling left out moment by the frickin' leaver himself...no one tells them they have to be consistent or make sense (check out SP's thread... ;))

Anyhoo, I think I handled it fine. I'm taking this one item at a time and just cuz he projects and tries to drag me into the future doesn't mean I'm going. 9 times out of ten he's just blowing hot air anyway.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Practical advice needed - 08/22/09 11:24 PM
Good move, then, because taking the kids out of the country in the midst of separation and divorce is agin the rules. Sez so right there in the Temporary Restraining Order you get when you file.
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Practical advice needed - 08/23/09 12:08 AM
Be careful Ak, I just went out of country with kids and h, but no one asked for the paperwork that was asked for in 06 when I went alone with the kids ....wth? I mean, I know h was with me this time, but it wasn't always obvious, so I was surprised. Leaving LAX for NYC and then Italy, I was asked for NO paperwork and h was not with us yet. (Met us in NYC). There, in NYC I guess they saw us together but no one asked "hey are you the parents?" that I can recall....just asked d12 if she recalled any of this and she said "no one asked us anything THIS time"... in the eastern bloc, Hungary, THEY ASKED US ONCE for paperwork and then on the night train, at least 4 diff "guards" from out of a bad film, grilled us. Not for kidnapping, more for "you smuggle!" (Which was either a declarative statement OR an accusation OR a question, couldn't tell with the accent....)

But your h is supposed to have your permission to leave IN WRITING NOTARIZED....with your signature of course. And no, I would not give it to him in a million years with things as they are....but if he does it without your permission, when he returns, he'll have lost a lot of credibilty and ground with any judge. Probably would have to have supervised visits forever for "kidnapping" them...seriously that IS a possibility. But does HE know that? Who knows?

Hey, would your h be open to Retrovaille? Are YOU? Just asking!!....don't think you ever mentioned it before come to think of it... and no, don't say it costs too much b/c I know for a fact they do NOT turn people down for lack of funds. They DO ask for an anonymous donation at the end of the weekend and you don't have to give anything. H and I went to it, and when we went, at the end we donated enough to cover us and another couple, and several of us did that if I read them right. Point is, that's how I know other couples paid nothing and I don't mind. Our society makes it hard enough to stay m, we should all do what we can to help those who can, to stay m. So much cynicism. Don't we know?

Oh, and by the way, haven't found you in fb land as I am not on the db fb group but brandnewday or kaini can find me for you if you want. You are not too far from me. Would love you to come hear a few min of my stand up, touching on the topic of m in there....hmmm...

j-

PS--d12 is better now. Scared the crap out of me. Required 24/7 attention and dipping her in the pool and putting ice on her chest, feet head and hands and she allowed it....highest fever I've seen and have older kids. s23 had a perforated eardrum from an ear infection and HIS fever never hit 105'F...so, WTH???

So, "Viral infection of unknown cause", but we had some gross things ruled out, thank God....and she's pretty good now. Yeah, that re-arranged my weekend and week...and I really am still tired from it all I think.

Gotta go, on that note...take care A/K and find me on fb so we can do a rl thingy...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/23/09 12:30 AM
Thanks 25!!!! Well, I had forewarned H that he must have permission to take them out of the country but I don't know that it registered. I have ALL of their documents with me so I doubt he could even get them passports without my assistance. Honestly, I have NO reason to think this will get out of hand but I will be mindful as usual.

Retrouvaille. Funny you mentioned it. I do think about it and feel sad when I see it in other people's sitches. I even called once. A while back I had mentioned it vaguely to H just to say in all honesty that it would be for both of us to know that we did everything we could. He sort of took it in. When brought up again, he said he just couldn't go away with me for a weekend, would be too weird.

Not sure now, I still think that prior to filing it might be wroth suggesting. At this point they might have a harder time with me than him...I just don't know how I could ever trust and feel safe with him again but I would go if he would. It would be just as hard for me, so we'd be in it together. Would be frightening to make myself vulnerable to him again. I mean, with the IMago, I poured my heart out and it felt horrible after to ML and feel so much understanding between us and have him subsequently say that doing those exercises just aren't who he is...it feels to weird, fake...etc. which I actually relate to but sh*t if it works (which it did) I'll suck it up and do it. There have been numerous things that have helped. I think his ego and sense of fulfilling his destiny makes him resent any prospect that stands a likelihood of bringing us together. Sick and sad...he has really dug himself in.

Anyway, it is remarkable to me that you brought it up because I have tried to ward off any thoughts of it in the midst of my detachment. It is hard to walk that tight-rope.

I would LOVE to come see your stand-up!

I'll find you on FB.

Glad your daughter is okay! Scary, right??? Makes you really remember what is important.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/23/09 05:29 PM
Saw a bunch of old friends last night (hadn't seen in 20 years)...wow, was that weird. Kind of put my life in perspective and unfortunately made me a bit nostalgic for when I was "married with two kids"...I don't know if that makes sense but I woke up feeling a bit aimless and lonely...all those years gone by and here I am, starting all over.

I'm not even close to down or depressed...gonna have a great day. Was just a surreal experience and I miss the feeling of relative stability and gratification that came from being an intact family...

Anyhoo, that Retrovaille talk got to me a bit too.

What I love is that I can have these feelings and still deal with the reality of my sitch. Major progress.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Practical advice needed - 08/23/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'll find you on FB.


Yep, she only needs to respond...
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 02:11 AM
I'm out at a play... Gonna need some Gucci help soon. Something's in the water cuz H is starting to pay attention...

More later...
Posted By: davidswife Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 02:12 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Something's in the water cuz H is starting to pay attention...


SCRIPT!!
Posted By: 25yearsmlc Re: Practical advice needed - 08/24/09 06:15 AM
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'll find you on FB.


Yep, she only needs to respond...
K


maybe I'm clueless but I think A/K needs to find me, right? cuz I tried to find her and got some other interesting peeps with that name...but not YOU a/k..

THanks Kaini, as usual!
j-
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Practical advice needed - 08/24/09 07:09 AM
Aaargh, I contacted Kalni on there and asked her to connect me with you. Hey, I'm one of her friends, that should make it easy...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 07:23 AM
Originally Posted By: davidswife
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Something's in the water cuz H is starting to pay attention...


SCRIPT!!


Ya. And...I am not going to handle it the way I have before but this is tough because he tries to bait me any way he can.

Of course now I'm too tired to even recap but I had a great night and handled him just fine...again, I can "handle it." As soon as I get nervous or fearful or feel the hook sinking in, I remind myself that I can "handle it." And I do.

Basically, he is squirming around because I'm going out, he doesn't know where or with whom and I don't engage with him (just friendy when we exchange the kids)...second reference tonight to us maybe going out. Ya, right. And, ultimately, we "need to talk serious stuff." To which I answered basically, "Not right now while you know I'm out and not via text. smile Later. Email."

He answered. "huh?"

I said, "let's talk later." He gave me a juvenile response that referenced being "safe" (as in safe sex)...which I ignored and then he apologized and said he's just "on the edge" which I presume is supposed to compel me to explore what is wrong with him...I did not respond.

Now, I am handling everything so well.

My only real issue is that there's that bitty part of me that would prefer we work it out despite the fact that I can't see how we could ever be together again and I have lost both attraction and desire for him.

I really need to hold my ground as he turns the heat up and tests my resolve.
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 10:15 AM
Yes you are handling it correctly now.

Just one ingredient missing now, but you told me you won't entertain it. I didn't invent what works on a man, but do KNOW for SURE what does. As simple as it sounds and as much as you disagree, some men just need a challenge. I would recommend that you give him just that.

It really is that simple.
Posted By: Steve McQueen Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 02:14 PM
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
As simple as it sounds ... some men just need a challenge.


AMEN!

A/K. just do it.

you do not need to get yourself a male escort. Just get acquainted. Interact. You will be suprised at how quick "they" pick up on the fact that you are not waiting around thinking and pining about them.

You asked for Gucci's advice specifically, so I will not butt in. But I want to add one point: spend some time reading threads from men who have WAW and study what they say their wifes say to them. What is called "Script" on this site. Add it to your vocabulary. Your husband will be the one walking around questioning what is in the water.
SMcQ
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 02:43 PM
Quote:
spend some time reading threads from men who have WAW and study what they say their wifes say to them. What is called "Script" on this site. Add it to your vocabulary.


YEP.. Exactly

It is working on most all the men on this site. If you read the threads from the BS men on here, you will notice a fairly common theme and thread.

Something like this...

"I didn't wake up UNTIL she wanted out".....

Over and over and over.. The men on this site did NOT wake up until the WS started showing signs of walking away and no chance of loving him back anymore...

Again.... So what worked for that woman who is the WS?

It was REJECTING HIM.... Letting go... Finding another man...
ILYBNILWY...


Suddenly that man is on this site... Reading on relationships, begging, crying, changing, doing the laundry after never having done it in his life, offers of foot rubs, suddenly communication is top priority to him after ignoring her for years, suddenly he talks to her with respect, learns to apologize, gets totally involved with the kids, father of the year, husband of the year, is open to counseling after telling her no for years, suddenly shaves, works out. Suddenly his marriage vows mean everything after treating her like a second class citizen for years.... on and on and on..... SUDDENLY.. all AFTER (not during or before) AFTER she shows action of wanting out and being done...



All of those things are what have worked for the WAW to cause the men on this site to be here. Some for 2 years or more that are STILL getting rejected (see how good it works?) and can't let go of HER, now that she has let go...

CHALLENGE.. Some men need a challenge....

Without a doubt. The hardest part for me is getting women to quit questioning it and just follow the advice. It works. Much better than "hanging in there" while he eats his cake and gets the challenge he needs from another source....

That's my opinion and experience. I fail to see it differently from the way men on this site are reacting to women who want out. I certainly don't see the men on here just walking away and giving up. Quite the OPPOSITE.

REALITY.. Follow reality... not what you "wish for" ....
Posted By: Thinker Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 02:57 PM
Completely true!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 05:57 PM
Oh, you silly kids, don't you think I've interacted with another guy already...

I tried to tell you in not so many words. But, ya, I've got my feelers out there and there is someone I've spent some time with (though long distance so not likely BF material and also a bit young wink ).

So there...now I'll finish reading the rest of the thread...just couldn't help but clarify.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 06:20 PM
Ok, so I was a WAW who didn't walk away, thus we just tore the sh*t out of our R. I did reject H and talked about leaving but it lingered on and on and he knew that he had me with my unyielding commitment to marriage. But I did reject him and treat him like crap (alternated with trying to be perfect and loving and sexy and a "good wife")...it was like Limboland for a few years and when one was on in the marriage, the other was off.

Even once I told him that I wanted to separate because he was so miserable (and was clearly hanging out with other women) and he looked at me and said "but you're cute and I love you." That was a month before he left!

I could feel him leaving and was very honest and expressive about my desire to come back together. There was definitely one if not more other women tugging at his zipper by that point.

So,a few weeks ago (post my weekend getaway), he was coming at me with some drama about the past and I fired off the email of the century and articulated that I was moving on. And I meant it and I have followed through. And I have maintained my boundaries and I have a few too many challenges to articulate here that have been from little to big (him wanting x or y, or texting or...) and I have met each challenge effectively. Even last night he resorted to a desperate email accusing me of some drama and I handled it so well. I wrote the long retarded emotional email, threw it out and sent the concise, handling and ending this conversation email instead. His response, "fair enough."

Works for me.

There is no cake eating, there is no hanging out, no phone calls, no seeking time together or lingering or accepting invitations or showing up where I know he is...nada.

By sheer happenstance, he texted that he wanted to come by the house last night to get something he needed for work. And I had to tell him my sister was here with my kids cuz I was out...He said, "I guess I'm f*cked." Yep, he knows if he wants his nuts in tact he shouldn't be showing up with my sis here...then it went on about me being out so much and he was going to invite me to a movie but he thought I wouldn't want to be away from our kids (which was a major issue in M, I didn't go out enough with him)....I let him have his conversation with himself and turned my phone off...then it was that he wanted to talk to the kids (hello, McFly, I'm out)...and then it was we need to have a serious talk...and then the email...

The ONLY tough part is that we have to raise two kids and make some serious logistical and financial decisions with this drama in the middle...it feels very precarious but I am handling it one thing at a time and I am getting very close to hammering out what I want and I will then either file for D if I have the money or sit down with him and see if we can draw up a separation agreement.

No, I am not f*cking around anymore. I married a big baby and I have NO indication whatsoever that he plans on manning up. Actually, this behavior now, while it strokes my ego a tad, is juvenile and annoying and I am glad I'm not living with it anymore. I am a straight up kind of gal and I want a man who can "handle it."

What I would love is help staying on track because sometimes I miss the little traps. But, I doubt you'll give me your cell phone numbers and be on call...so I'll have to rely on my general commitment to move on.
Posted By: Coach Re: Aye caramba... - 08/24/09 06:29 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ok, so I was a WAW who didn't walk away, thus we just tore the sh*t out of our R. I did reject H and talked about leaving but it lingered on and on and he knew that he had me with my unyielding commitment to marriage. But I did reject him and treat him like crap (alternated with trying to be perfect and loving and sexy and a "good wife")...it was like Limboland for a few years and when one was on in the marriage, the other was off.

Even once I told him that I wanted to separate because he was so miserable (and was clearly hanging out with other women) and he looked at me and said "but you're cute and I love you." That was a month before he left!

I could feel him leaving and was very honest and expressive about my desire to come back together. There was definitely one if not more other women tugging at his zipper by that point.

So,a few weeks ago (post my weekend getaway), he was coming at me with some drama about the past and I fired off the email of the century and articulated that I was moving on. And I meant it and I have followed through. And I have maintained my boundaries and I have a few too many challenges to articulate here that have been from little to big (him wanting x or y, or texting or...) and I have met each challenge effectively. Even last night he resorted to a desperate email accusing me of some drama and I handled it so well. I wrote the long retarded emotional email, threw it out and sent the concise, handling and ending this conversation email instead. His response, "fair enough."

Works for me.

There is no cake eating, there is no hanging out, no phone calls, no seeking time together or lingering or accepting invitations or showing up where I know he is...nada.

By sheer happenstance, he texted that he wanted to come by the house last night to get something he needed for work. And I had to tell him my sister was here with my kids cuz I was out...He said, "I guess I'm f*cked." Yep, he knows if he wants his nuts in tact he shouldn't be showing up with my sis here...then it went on about me being out so much and he was going to invite me to a movie but he thought I wouldn't want to be away from our kids (which was a major issue in M, I didn't go out enough with him)....I let him have his conversation with himself and turned my phone off...then it was that he wanted to talk to the kids (hello, McFly, I'm out)...and then it was we need to have a serious talk...and then the email...

The ONLY tough part is that we have to raise two kids and make some serious logistical and financial decisions with this drama in the middle...it feels very precarious but I am handling it one thing at a time and I am getting very close to hammering out what I want and I will then either file for D if I have the money or sit down with him and see if we can draw up a separation agreement.

No, I am not f*cking around anymore. I married a big baby and I have NO indication whatsoever that he plans on manning up. Actually, this behavior now, while it strokes my ego a tad, is juvenile and annoying and I am glad I'm not living with it anymore. I am a straight up kind of gal and I want a man who can "handle it."

What I would love is help staying on track because sometimes I miss the little traps. But, I doubt you'll give me your cell phone numbers and be on call...so I'll have to rely on my general commitment to move on.







What??? Where am I? confused I thought I was on AAK's thread. whistle

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 12:29 AM
Ha, is it that much of a leap?
Posted By: Coach Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 12:54 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ha, is it that much of a leap?


Across the chasm from fear to love.

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 12:58 AM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ha, is it that much of a leap?


Across the chasm from fear to love.

Cheers


Jeezuz, you're good. Lucky Greek.

I am happy today. I am happier than I was before H left. I don't understand it completely but I like it.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 03:48 AM
Quote:
No, I am not f*cking around anymore.


Know something, my dear friend? If this was the 1940s, and we were in a Warner Bros. picture, I'd be looking at you over a shot glass full of bourbon while waiting for my mark to appear so I could keep tailing him, and I'd tip my fedora back, toss down that shot, and tell you you're a Real Dame.

And that would be a good thing. And it is.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 04:13 AM
Ha, dame just means woman so, a "real dame" works for me.

BTW- Do you all think I cuss too much? grin
Posted By: mindfull Re: Aye caramba... - 08/25/09 04:27 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
BTW- Do you all think I cuss too much? grin


AAK - Hahhahhah I was considering naming my new thread something along those lines... Hahahaha
Posted By: aliveandkicking Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/25/09 11:23 PM
Ok, so Miss Sassy Pants master of detachment just got a 3rd invitation to see a movie in the form of text "I was gonna ask if u could get the kids covered"...this following an exasperated text about what if he needed to reach me for a real emergency...which I responded to (not the hostile one that popped in mind) but "LOL. I don't pay much attention to my phone unless the kids are out. Everything alright?"

And then came, I was just gonna ask x an y and if you wanted to see movie with me if kids are covered.

I have not responded.

3rd time. Waz up wit dat?

Or is it more of a "since you were unreachable you missed your chance at precious time with me..."? He does tend to say it after the fact. "I was gonna see if..."

Ha, I'm detached enough, just wondering how to be nice about it. I guess.

He had also suggested we see friends play together Saturday night...which I didn't really respond to..,

so I say what to the wussy invitation-like thing, maybe "if you man up and ask me out on a date I might consider it..."

iPhone retarded typing sorry
Posted By: davidswife Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/25/09 11:26 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


And then came, I was just gonna ask x an y and if you wanted to see movie with me if kids are covered.

I have not responded.

3rd time. Waz up wit dat?


You KNOW waz up wit dat?

Here, kitty, kitty.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/25/09 11:32 PM
Quote:
3rd time. Waz up wit dat?

Or is it more of a "since you were unreachable you missed your chance at precious time with me..."? He does tend to say it after the fact. "I was gonna see if..."


Ho-ho! Naaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh -- that ain't "you missed your chance." That was "I want a chance."

Let caution be your by-word, friend. Been, done, got the t-shirt.
But he's a DOG. LOL

Ooooh, he's saying "here kitty kitty" and I do what?

You toss out your kitty, it finds food a few blocks away...now you want kitty to come take a nip. How do I know I won't be starving and out on my a$$ again in a week???
grin
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/25/09 11:38 PM
Quote:
You toss out your kitty, it finds food a few blocks away...now you want kitty to come take a nip. How do I know I won't be starving and out on my a$$ again in a week???


Exactly. Schnarch: You don't have to believe it until you experience it.

And he's not saying "here kitty kitty." He's running after kitty in his dopey dog-like way. Isn't there some stupid-looking French dog I can hate? Hold on -- clicking over to The Great GaGoogle...
Found it! Voila le chien du Monsoor Le Shmedlap!
Ok peeps. So the Kung Fu AK response is-

a) nothing
b)" ROFL"
c) "I don't think my boyfriend would like that"
d)" too late sucka"
e)" kiss my db'ing my a$$ off butt..."
f)" sure baby and I'll throw in a handjob because I'm so sorry I did you wrong and forced you to abandon your family...why not?"
g)" I'd rather go to the movies with my fat alcoholic neighbor because he's less predictable."
h) "maybe another time when I've got absolutely nothing to do"
i) make up your own..,come on please...
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
Quote:
You toss out your kitty, it finds food a few blocks away...now you want kitty to come take a nip. How do I know I won't be starving and out on my a$$ again in a week???


Exactly. Schnarch: You don't have to believe it until you experience it.

And he's not saying "here kitty kitty." He's running after kitty in his dopey dog-like way. Isn't there some stupid-looking French dog I can hate? Hold on -- clicking over to The Great GaGoogle...
Found it! Voila le chien du Monsoor Le Shmedlap!



Laughed my a$$ off before I even clicked on the picture!

Ok, so he's a dopey dog...IF I wanted to go Gucci on his a$$, how would I do that?

So far, I'm not responding cuz I just don't respond unless I have a purpose.
You are good!

OK, my top two, unless you really want to go (an I think I might just be sensing, not so much!)

Just ignore it. Drive him nuts.
Or,
Sorry, I have plans.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 12:03 AM
If Le Shemdlap were moi, and I were confronted with those choices, I'd pick (f). But that's just me.... whistle
Well that was helpful. grin
Posted By: breakaway Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 01:04 AM
The best reply to a narcissist is nothing at all.
That's exactly what he got.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 05:48 AM
Damn Straight!
OOOOOOOOOO-Dog, how you doing?
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 06:16 AM
I started feeling better as soon as I walked out of that office after signing the papers. Not that I wanted to but I didn't have it hanging over my head.

Went out for drinks afterwards. Everyone was very supportive and upbeat. Long talk with a person afterwards about future plans.

Asked out for drinks again tonight - good conversation.

It's all good when I don't concern myself with what's happening on the other side of the fence.
Cool. I suppose you concur that I should keep movin' on here despite H's invitations (weak-a$$ as they are)...
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 06:38 AM
Well I don't know if I'm the one to ask around here. H needs to "get it" and understand how his behavior affects you and the kids before you move any closer otherwise you're repeating the same sitch again. I know you've spelled it out before but do it again and don't move his direction until you see a sign of change. It might be very difficult to understand for someone who is truly narcisistic as H might be.

You can't keep crashing your head into a brick wall.

How's that?
Ya, pretty much where I'm at. I wake up sad because he was my family, you know?

But, and it is a big but, he does not get it and I can't imagine ever seeing him as the guy who would be here for me come hell or high water...and that is truly what I want.

So, I am moving on and oddly, we are getting along and I just ignore any and all frivolous communication...I let him play with himself.

It is just so odd to be so ok and nice to him while still maintaining my boundaries...

I hope you are able to relish in the done-ness of your sitch...and enjoy your life.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 07:12 AM
Yeah, she was my family too and I miss her but I can't pay attention to her sitch anymore.

ignore the frivolous and angry stuff.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 09:24 AM
I am late (time zones) but a&k, eventhough I f@cked up in my sitch, your sitch seems so clear to me... Your H DEMANDS that you treat him like you have been lately.
Tough "love", boundaries, detachement, "get your sh!t straight mister", no enabling of any kind (incl related to kids), a challenge, everything in that direction...

So, dont doubt yourself, stand firm. Be a loving....bitch, LOL
K
Ya, I know how to do the "bitch" part really well...it is the "loving bitch" that I'm figuring out. wink
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 04:47 PM
AAK

Haven't been keeping up with you in a while but decided to drop in and see where you're at...what a turnaround! Love the kung fu attitude. Keep on taking names and kicking ass! (Or is it the other way around?)
Other way or around but who cares?

Thanks for the props.
Posted By: tristan Re: Gucci, Coach, 25, SP, somebody??? - 08/26/09 09:26 PM
Hi Alive.

Figured I would stop in on your thread and say hi. The thread is long and I have no ability to read it all now, but it looks like you are about to throw in the towel (H not worth it). Am I correct?

-T
Posted By: aliveandkicking PEEPS...help a mother out. - 08/27/09 12:19 AM
Just a sec Tristan, I'll explain...

BUT first. I've been dealing with H so well.

So, of course he just manned up and sent me an email asking me to come out with him Saturday to the play...

thoughts?
Posted By: Virtually_Handsome Re: PEEPS...help a mother out. - 08/27/09 12:34 AM
Well.....
He manned up.
He actually exibited good behavior.
He didn't sulk over you ignoring his bad behavior.
My reaction is to say yes.

Be warned, I am sometimes a softie, but I think he is making a step towards you. It's the kind of thing you'd like to encourage, right?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: PEEPS...help a mother out. - 08/27/09 12:50 AM
Quote:
I think he is making a step towards you. It's the kind of thing you'd like to encourage, right?


Honestly, I don't know if I want him making steps toward me. This is really weird.
Just looking for a little more input...
whistle
Posted By: davidswife Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 01:53 AM
I'd thank him for asking, but tell him you've already made plans.

But that's just me.

Stacy
Quote:
So, of course he just manned up and sent me an email asking me to come out with him Saturday to the play...

thoughts?


Forgive me for saying so, but this doesn't seem so complicated to me.

What do you want to do?

Do you want to go to the play with Monsoor? If the answer is, "yes," then go. It's not the end of the world; it's not the beginning of a New Us. It's a play. You sit; you watch; you chat during intermission; you get up; you put your jacket on; you say, "That was great, thanks; see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya." And off you go.

If you're afraid his hand will wander over to your knee, and you don't want it to, if it wanders delicately pick it up and move it away. If you're afraid YOUR hand will wander over to his knee, either don't go or control yourself.

This isn't a Test. This isn't the thing that will break you up forever and bring you back together. It is a measure of how much you've really detached -- can you occupy the same space without falling back into the Old Patterns?

If, on the other hand, you're not sure; if you're not convinced you're in control of yourself; you're not convinced you won't slip into the Old Patterns, then say "Thanks, but I'm not sure we're ready for that yet."

And go by yourself.
I'm not worried about hanky panky, it isn't happening.

I am not feeling that this will make or break us...what "us" anyway?

I have a tough time picking a response and hitting send.

It is not so much about control as not really liking him right now, I guess.

I mean, I'm on the phone with a new accountant discussing the tax ramifications of child support etc and he's emailing me to come out with him...

I guess I just don't know what the point is.

I try to think of if I would go out with him if he were just one of many "hims" which he is at this point and I figure I'd say "sure, why not?" But seeing as he is the him that has devastated my life (although not so much cuz I'm happier now, maybe I should take him out and thank him) and he sure caused our kids some heartache...I dunno...

Is his ego just so distressed that he needs to know he can get me to go out with him if he tries hard enough?

Oh crappity crap, this doesn't feel like detachment...one point for him.

But, duuuuuuuuude, I have been handling sh*t so well...feels good.

Just this nagging thing of the guy who was but wasn't asking me out on a date...ggrrr...

Maybe I'll take another look at yesterday's list.

I have to admit, I'd really like Gucci's take on this.

Oh and the play is a friend's play...so weirdness there...I mean am I publicly displaying my approval of H's behavior? Does it matter?
Posted By: mindfull Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:20 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

Is his ego just so distressed that he needs to know he can get me to go out with him if he tries hard enough?



Oh and the play is a friend's play...so weirdness there...I mean am I publicly displaying my approval of H's behavior? Does it matter?


AAK - I was thinking both of these things when I read your post a little while ago.

You have been doing so well. You and "we" both know that he is not a classic WAS... This guy is immature, flashy louse. THINK about where you've dug yourself out from. OF COURSE, he wants to go out with you, because you're no longer making yourself available to him , NOT BECAUSE (yet) he knows he screwed up, and wants to make nice.

AND, Gosh, do you want to validate the "okayness" of him, by being actively, publicly FRIENDY! I think not.

Oh, there's poor, AAK, accepting her breadcrumb of attention.

YOU ARE DOING SO GOOD! Your kids need you to continue being the pillar of stability. YOU need you to continue being the pillar of stability.

If there's a vote being taken, NO.

I'm just so impressed with how far you've come. A little glitz and shine your way is not always good.
Ok, so-

a) Thanks but I have other plans

b) Thanks but I don't think we're ready for that

c) Sure. (thought bubble-and then you can drop me again like a bad habit)

whistle
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:20 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm not worried about hanky panky, it isn't happening.

I am not feeling that this will make or break us...what "us" anyway?

I have a tough time picking a response and hitting send.

It is not so much about control as not really liking him right now, I guess.

I mean, I'm on the phone with a new accountant discussing the tax ramifications of child support etc and he's emailing me to come out with him...

I guess I just don't know what the point is.

I try to think of if I would go out with him if he were just one of many "hims" which he is at this point and I figure I'd say "sure, why not?" But seeing as he is the him that has devastated my life (although not so much cuz I'm happier now, maybe I should take him out and thank him) and he sure caused our kids some heartache...I dunno...

Is his ego just so distressed that he needs to know he can get me to go out with him if he tries hard enough?

Oh crappity crap, this doesn't feel like detachment...one point for him.

But, duuuuuuuuude, I have been handling sh*t so well...feels good.

Just this nagging thing of the guy who was but wasn't asking me out on a date...ggrrr...

Maybe I'll take another look at yesterday's list.

I have to admit, I'd really like Gucci's take on this.

Oh and the play is a friend's play...so weirdness there...I mean am I publicly displaying my approval of H's behavior? Does it matter?


So I read through this last thread a couple of times and by the time I finished you seemed to answer your own question. I don't know you or your situation very well at all but 3 things jump out at me.

1) You don't seem detached.
2) You seem like an awesome person and I can't imagine you ever going out with a person that doesn't even ask in a genuine and compelling way.
3) You don't seem detached.

...and no you don't curse too much. Works fine for me smile
Quote:
Oh, there's poor, AAK, accepting her breadcrumb of attention.


Excuse me while I vomit.

This just seems so sadistic...really.

But, I must say that he has changed a lot of his flashy behaviors. Not enough to convince me but a lot.

And, there does not appear to be OW...too much time on his hands, too much contacting me and NO action on facebook. But, anyway, back to not caring I go...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:24 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
a) Thanks but I have other plans

This tells him not this time but to try again

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
b) Thanks but I don't think we're ready for that

This tells him that he's close and that it's OK the way he asked.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
c) Sure.

This tells him that everything is OK.



Posted By: mindfull Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:25 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


b) Thanks but I don't think we're ready for that


Someday I'd love to get to this point, but I'm just not yet. Until I feel I'm ready to share time with you, I'll thank you for the offer, and decline.

PS - But you can buy me a ticket so I can go alone! LOL
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:26 AM
Originally Posted By: mindblank
AAK - I was thinking both of these things when I read your post a little while ago.

You have been doing so well. You and "we" both know that he is not a classic WAS... This guy is immature, flashy louse. THINK about where you've dug yourself out from. OF COURSE, he wants to go out with you, because you're no longer making yourself available to him , NOT BECAUSE (yet) he knows he screwed up, and wants to make nice.

AND, Gosh, do you want to validate the "okayness" of him, by being actively, publicly FRIENDY! I think not.

Oh, there's poor, AAK, accepting her breadcrumb of attention.

YOU ARE DOING SO GOOD! Your kids need you to continue being the pillar of stability. YOU need you to continue being the pillar of stability.

If there's a vote being taken, NO.

I'm just so impressed with how far you've come. A little glitz and shine your way is not always good.


Yes. What MindBlank said.
Quote:
So I read through this last thread a couple of times and by the time I finished you seemed to answer your own question. I don't know you or your situation very well at all but 3 things jump out at me.

1) You don't seem detached.
2) You seem like an awesome person and I can't imagine you ever going out with a person that doesn't even ask in a genuine and compelling way.
3) You don't seem detached.

...and no you don't curse too much. Works fine for me


Ha, ya, I hear you on the detachment BUT, the truth is that I am happy. I am ok without him. I am attracted to other men. I am making plans for my life without him.

I do not foresee my little of window of possibility closing off any time soon. I am just a hopeless romantic and I think how the f do I know where he will be or I will be further down the line? Something like 1/5 of all divorced couples remarry each other...

Of course I would love to ease my childrens' suffering and honor the vision and the vows H and I took...but, I am in reality. Same thing as the quote I just posted on your thread.

I am in a sort of open space of possibilities in every area of my life...career, where I will live, relationships...everything is starting over...so I feel sort of weightless.

But, I am still a living breathing human and I know that I am interacting with another whom I have a great deal of history and connection too (2 kids and not divorced yet) so I spin just a little. grin

It is hard for me to be decisive (can you tell) but like I said, I've handled multiple situations as of recent and done it with no fanfare, no drama...it is awesome.

Anyway, leaning toward, "thanks but I have plans."

Why is this so hard?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:36 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
Oh, there's poor, AAK, accepting her breadcrumb of attention.


Excuse me while I vomit.

This just seems so sadistic...really.

But, I must say that he has changed a lot of his flashy behaviors. Not enough to convince me but a lot.

And, there does not appear to be OW...too much time on his hands, too much contacting me and NO action on facebook. But, anyway, back to not caring I go...

Well, this reminds me of me in some ways. I has some selfish flirts and and half-hearted attempts. But I have to tell you when I really woke up and realized how I felt and what was at stake, I got serious real fast. When OM came into the picture and I knew I might not ever have her back, well that's the worst feeling I've experienced in my life.

I don't know enough about this stuff to even be allowed to post here, but it seems to me that you'd know if H was at the point where he really woke up and got it. If he isn't then Gucci wisdom would prevail, no?
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
a) Thanks but I have other plans

This tells him not this time but to try again

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
b) Thanks but I don't think we're ready for that

This tells him that he's close and that it's OK the way he asked.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
c) Sure.

This tells him that everything is OK.



So, what do you think I should say?

BTW- thanks for stopping by.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Will the real Gucci please stand up? - 08/27/09 02:43 AM
Oh, I want to add that I have also been racking my brain about whether or not to text another him who I like, so this is kind of my style...aargh. I'm just really not good with this gamey stuff.

Meaning, I do feel relatively detached, I am just a bit of a spaz when it comes to communicating with guys, I guess. I do well with straight forward and candid...not the temperature taking and pussy-footing.

maybe that's what I need to stick with, it is after all who I am.

I think Gucci would say to tell H I have other plans (or maybe not even respond)...

round and round I go...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:43 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It is hard for me to be decisive (can you tell) but like I said, I've handled multiple situations as of recent and done it with no fanfare, no drama...it is awesome.

Anyway, leaning toward, "thanks but I have plans."

Why is this so hard?


Hard? The people on this site are doing stuff that I never even imagined possible. To save a marriage by detaching and moving on with your life. Those two things don't naturally go together. It seems almost impossible. But it makes sense!

It seems like you're on a really good path. I'm on a good path. We need to help each other stay on it.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:49 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
So, what do you think I should say?

BTW- thanks for stopping by.


No thank you.

without the "I have plans" Depending on what approach you're taking you either

a) force him to think about it and ask you why not

or

b) you let him figure out why not for himself.
Oh, the thanks for stopping by was to you. smile

Ok, so what is REALLY happening is that I am feeling guilty because I rejected him so much in the marriage and he really tried to get me to come out with him and it is hard to be in that position now.

Not so detached but seriously, not the end of the world either. I am not off my course, just being honest. This only a temporary lapse. And really, it feels so shallow and harmless compared to where I would go before.

Pertinent to know, I did spend a solid few months doing 180s and trying to be a different wife to him post separation and every time we had sex or had a good time together, he'd get flustered and rationalize it in some negative way. So, I stopped and just got very depressed and immobilized and now in a good place with boundaries and while friendy, I do my own thing and don't engage with him.

He sure got me with this though... wink
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 03:12 AM
LOL...I wasn't thanking you back, I was saying that if I were you I would say "No Thank You" to him (see above).

and btw you're very welcome smile
Quote:
I was saying that if I were you I would say "No Thank You" to him


Ya, I got that part. grin
Quote:
But seeing as he is the him that has devastated my life (although not so much cuz I'm happier now, maybe I should take him out and thank him) and he sure caused our kids some heartache...I dunno..

I had to read the post I clipped the above from a couple times, and no matter how many times and how many ways I read it, that sentence above just kept leaping out at me, as if it were in neon.

To me, it's like Prego -- it's in there. Forgive me for projecting a bit, but this is just my reading -- in your eyes, Monsoor is HIM, the guy that visited all this crap on you (frankly, he's that guy in my eyes, too, but my eyes don't really matter here FWIW). As long as that's the case, "companionship" beyond Friendiness just don't seem to be in order, ya know?

We had back-to-school night tonight, and WAW and I went like perfectly Normal People, and even though I'm rather more detached than you are, I totally "get" what you mean by the fear of seeming-to-approve -- a lot of folks over there at the school "know" about Signore and "know" about the D and I had a flash of concern that my being so open and forthcoming and laughing with WAW -- all of which was sincere, BTW -- would be (mis)construed as having accepted what she did (not acceptance in the DB-sense but in the "I'm okay with Signore boning my wife" sense).

But then I just rolled with it the way @Gypsy reminded me was the only way to roll with it -- just as I can't control WAW, I can't control What People Think.

Not that it matters, but I think you're great. You seem to be doing pretty well, getting you sh*t ship-shape and Bristol fashion, and maybe it's just Too Dam Early at this stage for accompanying Monsoor out on the town as Co-Parent. Go to the matinee, go separately and sit in separate sections (depends, of course, on the venue), but I sense that you've already answered the question of going "with" Monsoor yourself.

"I think knowing what you cannot do is more important than knowing what you can do." Lucille Ball
I've done lots of the school related friendy stuff, I do fine, that's old hat. grin

The difference is deliberately going out together on a date...but ya, I need to not care what the heck people think.

We do the friendy family time thing every once in a while.

Quote:
Forgive me for projecting a bit, but this is just my reading -- in your eyes, Monsoor is HIM, the guy that visited all this crap on you (frankly, he's that guy in my eyes, too, but my eyes don't really matter here FWIW). As long as that's the case, "companionship" beyond Friendiness just don't seem to be in order, ya know?


Yes. I know. That is how I feel. But I also feel that within our marriage, I really hurt him. I know it sounds ridiculous and the past is the past but IF we were going to look at each other through a "new lens" as I asked him to do with me...I don't know what would have to happen for me to do so.

Thanks for the support and the kind words. It helps.

I'm actually still feeling good. I sort of experience this like watching a movie...into it but easily over it.
Great. I haven't responded. Now he texted me wanting to know it I'm okay and that I seemed mad at him today. crazy
Posted By: orangedog Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 06:41 AM
A&K

remaining on the sidelines here re: the decision but sending you good vibes.
oh no you don't. you pay your two cents or else. grin
Posted By: MrBond Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 09:03 AM
The answer is simple. Don't respond. Period. Text him tomorrow and say, "I didn't have my phone on. Talk to you later." Then turn the phone off.

Don't relinquish the control and power you have now.
Posted By: Coach Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 02:40 PM
AAK, What you do depends on your goal. Decide what you want. Work backwards from the goal and it helps planning the journey. You can handle it.

Cheers
Posted By: breakaway Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 03:03 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But I also feel that within our marriage, I really hurt him. I know it sounds ridiculous and the past is the past but IF we were going to look at each other through a "new lens" as I asked him to do with me...I don't know what would have to happen for me to do so.


You say you've read a lot about NPD. Seriously...you can't hurt his feelings. He doesn't have any. You can injure his all consuming ego, but that's not the same thing.

If you really have researched NPD...then I know you've read that it's hard-wired NOT to change.
Quote:
The answer is simple. Don't respond. Period. Text him tomorrow and say, "I didn't have my phone on. Talk to you later." Then turn the phone off.


Hey Stuck. You are getting better at this....


Just a fine tune here on what you advised...

Don't respond. Period.


wink Do what works.

Originally Posted By: Coach
AAK, What you do depends on your goal. Decide what you want. Work backwards from the goal and it helps planning the journey. You can handle it.

Cheers



I'm with Coach on this one!

We all have our opinions, but if you're following MWD's advice, you're really the one with the answers.
Originally Posted By: Coach
AAK, What you do depends on your goal. Decide what you want. Work backwards from the goal and it helps planning the journey. You can handle it.

Cheers



Coach, I am so open now to all of the possibilities. I am starting over in every area of my life...career, where I will live, dating, making friends...

Honestly, I am "finding myself"...and I am enjoying it.

But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure. But, I know I do not feel good this morning, so that's a clue.

I responded to the text but not the email invitation.
Originally Posted By: breakaway
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But I also feel that within our marriage, I really hurt him. I know it sounds ridiculous and the past is the past but IF we were going to look at each other through a "new lens" as I asked him to do with me...I don't know what would have to happen for me to do so.


You say you've read a lot about NPD. Seriously...you can't hurt his feelings. He doesn't have any. You can injure his all consuming ego, but that's not the same thing.

If you really have researched NPD...then I know you've read that it's hard-wired NOT to change.



Yes, Breakaway, I have read a lot but I am not a diagnostician and I have found much more happiness and far less fear seeing H as a person and not a "narcissist"...I noticed that the more fearful I got and the more I treated him as some scary monster, the more he fit that bill.

I let what I've read keep me alert but I don't assume I know what is really going on in his head.

Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 05:49 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure. But, I know I do not feel good this morning, so that's a clue.

I responded to the text but not the email invitation.


I'm kind of on the other side of the fence from you AAK. Kind of where your husband is. My hope/wish for W would be that she either decides that she's 100% finished with me or that she decides what criteria might allow her to consider having me back and be diligent about allowing things to evolve and unfold in a way that is safe and fair for everyone.

I get that this is idealistic and unreasonable for me to expect this but that's what I would wish for. Just seems to me that if either or both parties can have a plan it would increase the likelihood of a better outcome.
Originally Posted By: gucci loafer
Quote:
The answer is simple. Don't respond. Period. Text him tomorrow and say, "I didn't have my phone on. Talk to you later." Then turn the phone off.


Hey Stuck. You are getting better at this....


Just a fine tune here on what you advised...

Don't respond. Period.


wink Do what works.




Gucci!!! Thanks for coming by. Is it working? If he is pursuing and it stresses me out so? I find it hard to focus and move on like this.

I have detached to the point that I really doubt I could ever be with him again. I feel that what I'm doing is intriguing to him.

BUT, when I am rude (not responding to an invitation etc), I think it becomes more about him (little boy) trying to make sure I (mommy) isn't mad at him. And, I'm not mad, I just want to live my life.

And of course my inner Cinderella wants it to magically all work out but...I just don't see how that is possible.

Isn't responding just a matter of civility?

Go ahead and set me straight here. I need it. I'm feeling really down now.

I was just telling my friend that as sad as it is, I am happier now than I was with H and low and behold...he rides up on his donkey (or maybe he is the donkey)... grin
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure. But, I know I do not feel good this morning, so that's a clue.

I responded to the text but not the email invitation.


I'm kind of on the other side of the fence from you AAK. Kind of where your husband is. My hope/wish for W would be that she either decides that she's 100% finished with me or that she decides what criteria might allow her to consider having me back and be diligent about allowing things to evolve and unfold in a way that is safe and fair for everyone.

I get that this is idealistic and unreasonable for me to expect this but that's what I would wish for. Just seems to me that if either or both parties can have a plan it would increase the likelihood of a better outcome.


Absolutely, but I had a plan and it failed and I was miserable. I have a very clear understanding of what happened with us. He knows my expectation for a marriage with him would require us to do specific things with me...

I have not gotten ONE word that indicates he wants or is ready to get back together.

All I have is that when I pull away, he comes toward me...that's it.

If he said he wanted to get back together, that might be different.

If he came to me with a plan...that would be hot hot hot.

If he wants to date me, he can treat me like a lady...the invitation was a start.

So, to be clear, you are where my H MAY be eventually, but he has no where near the level of contrition, clarity or understanding that you do.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 06:03 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
If he came to me with a plan...that would be hot hot hot.

If he wants to date me, he can treat me like a lady...the invitation was a start.


To me, it seems like he's need a plan in order to truly treat you like a lady. He needs to 'Get It' first. Isn't that when he'll be able to really treat you like a lady? Does it make sense to date before he gets it? I don't know the answer for sure but my gut tells me no.
The answer is no. Sad as it is...

Oh, and I don't think he is capable of getting it...but we shall see.
Posted By: MrBond Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 06:15 PM
There's the rub with detaching. We (the LBS) get to the point where we detach so much that we find ourselves wondering if we really want this damaged person in our lives. I'm in the same conflict.

In your case, you're not going to get your H to learn to become H of the Year overnight. First he has to show that he wants to be with you and that he'll respect you. Then the work comes after.

I think a part of you still wants to try just for the sake of saying you've tried everything. Maybe approach the sitch with a casual interest. He has to do the work to get you back.

Just keep ignoring him and take care of business. In your sitch, going out and being unreachable would work.

See gucci? I never said your "method" doesn't work. I think it works for certain sitches like AAK's here. Then it becomes a matter if she really wants it or not.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 06:18 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
The answer is no. Sad as it is...

Oh, and I don't think he is capable of getting it...but we shall see.


But maybe it isn't sad. I didn't get it for almost 20 years. OK, that's a little exaggerated but not much. You didn't know me then and don't really know me now but if you did you'd probably be perplexed at the change. I know I am. It's amazing what a little time, a few events, and a couple hard blows can do to a person. Stand firm but don't give up hope. If I'm lucky my W will do the same.
Right but ignoring really triggers him and not in the way I want to. But, I get it and so far I've ignored the email. I ignore any that are not kid/finance related.
Posted By: MrBond Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 07:17 PM
Well that's the thing. You're not "ignoring him" you're just not "encouraging him".

We've been through this DB stuff and reading so many things that the LBS undergoes a period of R growth very quickly. So naturally, we expect our S to react just as quickly. It doesn't work like that especially if they don't want to.

If you still want to take the chance on your M, you'll have to take things one step at a time. Sure you've moved on, so you don't have anything to lose personally.

Encourage the behavior you want and discourage the things you don't. The ball is in your court now.

But since he's been bugging you from Day 1, don't encourage his idea of thinking that you're a "fallback plan" that will always be there.

Then if he REALLY wants to be with you and will change to do so, then he's going to have to prove it to you. Then it'll be up to you if whether or not you really accept it.
Posted By: Coach Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/27/09 07:19 PM
Quote:
Honestly, I am "finding myself"...and I am enjoying it.
But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure.


Sound it sounds to me like you already have other plans for Sat night then. Send regrets to your mutual friend in it and see if he can get a DVD copy for you to watch.

There are other fish to fry after this with your husband. Plus watch his reaction after you are too busy to go with him. You are starting to bloom. Keep it up.
I was able to articulate to a friend who asked me to focus on what I want and not "he's not doing x or y," that basically, I didn't get that feeling of "yes. I want to go with him" and without that certainty and enthusiasm, I wont do it. That is all I've got to go on.

The whole "I have plans thing" is weird because I have my kids that night and I'm happy to have them and that is plans enough for me but it is not as if I have something uber exciting and they tell him flipping everything we do...

He's here now working. Very unnerving...surprise, surprise, he HAD to work on his computer here (which I do believe but interesting timing since I still haven't responded to the invite).

So, I need to focus on our separation agreement/ possible filing

and

getting a new place where there is no reason for him to come around AND I have my own sense of peace and property

work...

and

GAL...

Thank you guys for sticking with me here.
Oh, Coach, do you vote for "I have plans already" or just ignoring the email and seeing if it comes up again?
Quote:
it is not as if I have something uber exciting


Who said your plans have to "Ta-Daa! Pa-laaaaaaannns!"?

Plans is plans is plans is plans. "I'm watching 'Nemo' with a 6-year-old" is waaay better than "I'm going to the Oscars."

Quote:
getting a new place where there is no reason for him to come around AND I have my own sense of peace and property


Hooah!
Well, the moving thing is contingent upon the sep. agreement which is contingent upon having $ for representation which is contingent upon selling item that is taking way longer to sell than anticipated...

H was here and boy did that suck. Was nice for him to come in and make himself a little something (brought his own food at least)...I mentioned that he said he would only be in the office, but, with kids here (and of course soooo excited to have daddy here), I decided not to make a huge stink. But, he got that he was not playing by the rules (probably liked that too).

So, I managed to get the kids out of here to go do whatever...but through tantrums and breakdowns (H here adds emotional weight to a sitch that is already heavy on them, transitioning etc)...

Came back and made dinner...weird...I had a moment where I thought, "dumb a**hole" he could be f*cking his wife right now and getting fed a nice meal. Anyhoo...I guess, he looked kind of cute today...dammit.

But, he was lingering around while leaving, I gave him a barely hug (I had dripping dishwashing gloves on) and then as he took his time, I picked up his things and smiled. "Okay, have a great night." I walked him to the door. He mentioned the email about the play and said "but I guess you don't wanna do that." I answered, "ya, it doesn't really work for me." He said, "it's the closing night." I said, "well maybe I can get it on DVD" (thanks Coach)...and his said, "Ya, friend said it might be extended." I said, "excellent!" And, off he went...

Now, back to MEEEEEE...
Quote:
But, he was lingering around while leaving, I gave him a barely hug (I had dripping dishwashing gloves on) and then as he took his time, I picked up his things and smiled. "Okay, have a great night." I walked him to the door. He mentioned the email about the play and said "but I guess you don't wanna do that." I answered, "ya, it doesn't really work for me." He said, "it's the closing night." I said, "well maybe I can get it on DVD" (thanks Coach)...and his said, "Ya, friend said it might be extended." I said, "excellent!" And, off he went...

Now, back to MEEEEEE...


Great job AAK.
Thanks hun. I'm just glad it's over.
I am sure that wasn't easy. But, I can hear you getting stronger and stronger.
Posted By: MrBond Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/28/09 02:31 AM
Overall you did holding it together.

Except for that "looking cute" part.

So goes another day.
Word up, dawg! Nicely handled.
Originally Posted By: stuck808
Overall you did holding it together.

Except for that "looking cute" part.

So goes another day.


ah, it happens...he didn't look that cute, I just had an alternate version of our life run in my mind while doing the dishes...all fantasy, no reality.

Oh, and I sure as sh*t did not say he looked cute if that was the impression you got. grin
But the kids...aargh, they are still suffering. frown
Posted By: orangedog Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/28/09 03:24 AM
Nice job. Focus on the kids.
Forgot to mention that prior to H coming over I put away anything private (journal, DB book etc).

On my kitchen counter was a card with a name and number and the word mediation. I left it there.

At one point H asked playfully, "Hey, do you know who so and so is?" (the name on the card). I just smiled at him and went on with my business.

So, that is out there...
Perfect on the "having plans" (good advice Coach)

You did good.... wink

I know.. I know... You just can't figure us men out...

Quote:
Is it working? If he is pursuing and it stresses me out so? I find it hard to focus and move on like this.


Seems to be working rather well....
As far as you being stressed? You were stressed before. You seem to have been stressed through this whole process. Stress is YOUR issue. I would recommend to quit blaming him for YOUR stress. He can't make you feel stressed. That is your own doing.

Sorry that what works the best seems like game playing, but I didn't invent the concept. Just observed it and realize it is reality. Follow reality. Some men need a challenge and want the chase. He is picking up the chase. Don't play hard to get BE hard to get.


Stay on this course.
You know Gucci, first of all, I've noticed a real change in your tone here and I see that you are really helping a lot of people so, thanks for that. Second, I woke up feeling like cr*p today and was hoping I'd get knocked back into shape so thanks for showing up.

Quote:
As far as you being stressed? You were stressed before. You seem to have been stressed through this whole process. Stress is YOUR issue. I would recommend to quit blaming him for YOUR stress. He can't make you feel stressed. That is your own doing.


Yep, regardless of the circumstances, my stress is my responsibility and I need to work that out.

I must say that in the moment when he brought up the play..."I don't think it works for me" just flowed out and felt perfect because it meant a few different things...

I think cuz I am about to start the ball rolling on a sep agreement and likely filing (maybe mediation), I feel a little f*cked with...but, really, I need to keep moving forward.

Great post Gucci, really what I needed. Thanks.
Posted By: CityGirl Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/28/09 06:23 PM
I have been thinking of you and trying to read when I can. Things are *very* hectic right now... a sick dog, 3 ill family members and an H that is well, you know. You sound good, strong, centered and focused and I am proud of you!

Keeping you in my thoughts and sending you strength!
Thanks CG! I hope things calm down for you soon.

I think Gucci made an excellent point about my stress...it is mine after all.
Posted By: aliveandkicking A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:29 AM
Had a wonderful day with the kids and some friends. Went somewhere I had memories of having gone with H and the kids in the past...but more profound than the mild sadness was a feeling of gratitude for what was and gratitude for what is now.

Was with a soon to be WAW friend...tough to have her acknowledge how much happier I seem. I feel that is my duty no matter what, to be happier, not a testament to the benefits of divorce. Interesting conversation.

In the car, S9 asked if H and I are still married... crazy and S6 whimpered that he wants daddy to come home...tough stuff. But it is what it is. I honestly don't know what to say.
Posted By: harpo Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 02:45 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


In the car, S9 asked if H and I are still married... crazy and S6 whimpered that he wants daddy to come home...tough stuff. But it is what it is. I honestly don't know what to say.



Just be honest.let them know that Mom and Dad are going through tough times.but no matter what happens you BOTH still love them.I know it's hard and the hurt runs deep.and it really pi$$es me of when they say the kids will be fine.but we have to be above all that and be strong for ourselves and our children.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:11 PM
Thanks Harpo, I handled it alright. I'm getting used to it. It just adds an element of second-guessing as I am dropping the rope.

BTW- H wants to know if we can have brunch together this weekend when I drop off the kids...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:19 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
In the car, S9 asked if H and I are still married... crazy and S6 whimpered that he wants daddy to come home...tough stuff. But it is what it is. I honestly don't know what to say.


Tell them the truth. That Mommy and Daddy are going through some difficult times right now but that you both love them very very much and will always be there mother and father and will always be there for them. Be strong for them and you smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:23 PM
Thanks. I'm sorry that I said I didn't know what to say...I know what to say but I don't know how I feel about the question of are we married...

I'm getting used to handling the topic overall.

And, H wanting brunch together? I guess, no can do.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
And, H wanting brunch together? I guess, no can do.


Well, I'm guessing the experts here are going to say no to the brunch.

I think of brunch or coffee as kind of neutral venues that seem like a great place to have safe conversation.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:44 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Well, I'm guessing the experts here are going to say no to the brunch.


A&K I have to admit that while I was slowly coming around over a 10 month period, it was the OM and fear of losing W forever that put the fear of god in me and lit a fire under me like nothing I've ever experienced. If we had chugged along over those many months having brunch, etc. maybe I wouldn't have had my makeup call!? Seems like there's something to this method.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:45 PM
It is with the kids...I have only one day without the kids until Wednesday so I really should take it for myself.
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:47 PM
Definitely skip brunch and take the me time!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 05:50 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Well, I'm guessing the experts here are going to say no to the brunch.


A&K I have to admit that while I was slowly coming around over a 10 month period, it was the OM and fear of losing W forever that put the fear of god in me and lit a fire under me like nothing I've ever experienced. If we had chugged along over those many months having brunch, etc. maybe I wouldn't have had my makeup call!? Seems like there's something to this method.


Thank you. I have to remember that this M is already dead and that any remote possibility that we could be together would require him to pretty much get where you are. I doubt his ego will allow it...so, onward.
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 06:14 PM
It isn't "no" to brunch...

It is "can't do" brunch... already have plans..
"Maybe some other time."

make sure you have plans before you answer him.
we wouldn't want to lie to him now, would we?

busy busy busy.......
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 06:15 PM
Can plans be laying on my couch watching tv for a change? wink

I have plans tomorrow night but I am spent.

Actually, I will probably tackle my to do list while I don't have the kiddos.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 06:32 PM
Ok, sent email verbatim (per Gucci). Wanted to throw in a "have a great day" but didn't...

whateva...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 07:33 PM
H's answer..."fair enough"...

I figured he'd assume I am cutting him off to make a point.

Or am I misreading?

Is he getting that I'm not f*cking around anymore?

Or, or....ok, off to do my day.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 11:32 PM
Quote:
Is he getting that I'm not f*cking around anymore?


Even the French figure stuff out eventually.... I mean, they didn't try to rebuild the Maginot Line or anything, so that's gotta count for something.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 11:35 PM
So, am I getting what I wanted? crazy
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 11:38 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H's answer..."fair enough"...


I don't know him but "fair enough" suggests assumption of some responsibility on his part, no?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 11:55 PM
Uh, perhaps, you're better than mind-reading than I am. grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/29/09 11:56 PM
Actually, RSF, I'd like to know what you think that means...it is the second time he's said it.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:21 AM
When I say fair enough in a situation like that it means that I didn't get the response I had hoped for but I get the reason behind the decision and more than likely I played a role in the decision ending up the way it did.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:25 AM
Yes, so that was his big fight for me? LOL. And now he's accepted my response. Okie dokey.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:32 AM
When I say "fair enough" to WAW it means, "I hereby validate that that is your POV and won't challenge it." Nothing more than that. More or less "okay, whatevah," but in a nicer way. Don't know if that's what Monsoor means. Could mean he's getting it. Or it could mean "quoi que."
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:33 AM
well, you're right it wasn't much of a fight but it suggests some signs of assuming responsibility for the situation and the answer...as opposed to blaming others. I haven't read your entire thread but it seems like a positive sign if I understand your sitch.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:36 AM
Thanks. What sucks is that I give two sh*ts at this point. I'm supposed to be detached...
whistle
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:02 AM
does that mean that you do care and shouldn't or you don't care and shouldn't?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:14 AM
Ha, hey maybe giving two sh*ts and a total of two sh*ts is just fine...

I meant that I care and I shouldn't, but, looking at it another way, two sh*ts isn't much and I should just give myself a break.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:21 AM
yep. Time to give yourself a break! You've earned it and then some smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:30 AM
Ya, it seems obvious that he doesn't have OW right now, has been testing the waters with me and with my rejection and time on his hands will just fill the gap with someone else...

Yes, I am mind-reading, speculating, wheel spinning etc. and what I want is to focus on moving on with my life...I have those tiny little what ifs that I am NOT acting upon because I know this isn't gonna cut it for me (being the fallback gal) but, it annoys me that I get thrown off so easily.

And, Gucci is right that my stress is my problem. The only thing that is compelling no matter what angle I look at this from, is my kids and what they are going through...keeps me emotionally invested and it probably always will. I just have to handle it.

How's your night going RSF?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:49 AM
Having a good night...hanging with the kids, made homemade pizzas, doing facebook stuff, thinking about how much I wanted to tell W that I loved her when I picked the kids up and how bummed I am that she's at the campground with OM at this memorial thing. It's just always hard and I wonder how long I can hold out being the white night....but all-in-all I'm good. Thanks for asking.

How about you?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 01:54 AM
Hanging with the kids, gonna get them to bed early. Thinking about whether to discuss a settlement agreement with H now or wait until I have the $$ to file (and if that should be D or sep. agreement).

Off to focus on the kiddos.

Trust me, we've all been there with wanting to say ILY...it blows. But, it gets better.

What would not being the white knight be? what are your options? Has divorce come up? Some people find it useful to set a timeline (of course it can always be revised). At least you know that there is some limit for yourself.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 02:01 AM
well, we have an agreement that I would stop hassling her about OM and she would agree to hold off on the disillusion paperwork. Obviously, it takes two to agree on disillusion. If you read the emails that we exchanged during the last 24 hours you can see that she came back to suggesting that we move forward with the disillusion. In fact you must have read her email cuz I think you pulled a quote from it. My gut is that she was frustrated and didn't mean it but I don't know. I'd be curious to know what you think when you have a minute.

Email is on this page:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1820958&page=22
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 02:12 AM
Yes, I read it. I get the threads confused though so wanted to be clear.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 02:13 AM
after kids are asleep, I'll check it out again.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 03:46 AM
H just called and left a message, wanted to make sure everything is ok with me. He's concerned because I mentioned some tests I was having done a few weeks ago (I needed the $ for it but I told him it was no big deal which it isn't). Told me he is going to the play tonight and an old x-friend will be there. And, he apologized if it's annoying me that he is calling.

Anyhoo...
Posted By: Dudess Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 03:52 AM
That's good isn't it? I haven't followed your entire situation but I would think it's a good sign that he is concerned that he is actually annoying you by calling.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 04:00 AM
Well my dear, I'm going Gucci on him (as you say)...it is actually really throwing me off because I can't tell if he is concerned or if his ego is suffering and he is baiting me. I mean, the tests thing I already cleared up weeks ago.

I don't know if and when I give in to him and accept an invitation or conversation...but I do know that I am going to look adorable when I drop my kids off tomorrow.

Bloody hell, I just want to stop giving a sh*t and I was this close.

But, I am still a million times better than before. Just getting too distracted too easily.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 04:43 AM
And now a text that the play has been extended...
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 05:52 AM
Quote:
I don't know if and when I give in to him and accept an invitation or conversation...but I do know that I am going to look adorable when I drop my kids off tomorrow.


Aw, nerts to that! When don't you look adorable? He said fondly.

As for when and if to accept....Schnarch, sports-fan, Schnarch! You'll know it when you know it. It won't require questioning.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 05:58 AM
Quote:
When don't you look adorable?


Well thanks but trust me, I can look like a man's worst nightmare when I'm sleep deprived and pissed.

Quote:
As for when and if to accept....Schnarch, sports-fan, Schnarch! You'll know it when you know it. It won't require questioning.


Aha...right back at ya. Wonderful finale...good night.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 12:20 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H just called and left a message, wanted to make sure everything is ok with me. He's concerned because I mentioned some tests I was having done a few weeks ago (I needed the $ for it but I told him it was no big deal which it isn't). Told me he is going to the play tonight and an old x-friend will be there. And, he apologized if it's annoying me that he is calling.


He's reminding me a bit of me smile Keep holding your line. I'm guessing its hard right now.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 03:47 PM
I'm curious, at what stage is he reminding you of yourself (in months) and how long from that point was till you really "got it"?

I realize you two are very different anyway but I'm just curious.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 10:03 PM
Dropped the kids off to H this morning. He was friendly but clearly agitated. Mentioned something about my not replying to his texts and emails. I said if he asks me anything or if there is anything that requires a response, I answer. I was in a great mood.

He then texted me that kids mentioned something about an event we went to where "mommy's special friend" was there. I responded LOL...he's in his 60's and he and his wife had invited us...H said he figured but he "had to ask"...did he? I chose to answer him because I am holding firm to not having the kids around anyone I am intimate with and I want that clear and hopefully reciprocated.

And then...we need to get together and talk and it seems that I'm avoiding it. I said "sure. email me."

Then..."You look great by the way," to which I have not responded.

Having a great day, busy, but felt like posting...

I am wondering how much of what I should discuss with him...I am totally ready to deal with D, just in limbo waiting to find out if I will have a chunk of $ or not which makes a big difference. I really need to be clear about what I will and will not discuss at our meeting or if I should even have such a meeting without a third party present. Thoughts?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 10:49 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm curious, at what stage is he reminding you of yourself (in months) and how long from that point was till you really "got it"?

He reminds me of me right now. He's saying the same things I've said over the last several weeks. You're the only 0ne who can know if he's sincere or if he really gets it. My W tells me that she believes I've changed, that I love her, that I'm sorry, etc., etc. I can only assume that she really does. I have had a lot of conversational time with her to share my evolution and thought process though....and I'm on this forum which may not prove anything either.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 10:52 PM
Hold on here...he has not told me he loves me or that he wants me back or that he is sorry. He has made no mention at all of regretting or questioning his decision to leave.

He only acts possessive and contacts me a lot and is starting to ask me out and is complimenting me...

Different, don't you think?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 11:19 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Hold on here...he has not told me he loves me or that he wants me back or that he is sorry. He has made no mention at all of regretting or questioning his decision to leave.

He only acts possessive and contacts me a lot and is starting to ask me out and is complimenting me...

Different, don't you think?


Yes. Way, way different.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/30/09 11:31 PM
crazy
Posted By: antlers Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/31/09 12:05 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Hold on here...he has not told me he loves me or that he wants me back or that he is sorry. He has made no mention at all of regretting or questioning his decision to leave.

He only acts possessive and contacts me a lot and is starting to ask me out and is complimenting me...

Different, don't you think?




Maybe he's ready to start contacting you and asking you out and complimenting you BEFORE he is ready to tell you that he loves you and that he wants you back and that he is sorry! He may be ready to have something to do with you again BEFORE he's ready to mention that he regrets and/or questions his decision to leave! There may not be any particular order in which these things happen...I don't know. Yeah...it may be different...but maybe it's a start!
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/31/09 12:28 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Hold on here...he has not told me he loves me or that he wants me back or that he is sorry. He has made no mention at all of regretting or questioning his decision to leave.

He only acts possessive and contacts me a lot and is starting to ask me out and is complimenting me...

Different, don't you think?


Yes, but as I think about it it, everybody is different. Maybe a bigger ego requires a little bit of validation to get to the next step. He may be looking for a response from you to make him feel safe to move to a next step. May bot be the way you want it to happen but it's possible that it's forward movement.
Posted By: newgal Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/31/09 01:22 AM
Hey A&K, I have not read your whole situation. How long has your H been gone? Was he having an A?

Sounds like my sitch is similar to yours in that H asks to do things, etc., but it is only with our son, never just the two of us. He's been gone almost 16 months. He says he doesn't have the "right" feelings for me. As far as I can tell, he is not seriously involved with another woman, but I know he's had at least one EA in the past, possibly two. We both keep hinting that we have to end this marriage, but we don't get very far with those conversations, and meanwhile, we keep hanging out and doing things together, yet we don't seem to get any closer emotionally although we're great friends, and still have a very strong bond due to our 21 year history together and our son, and it really screws with my head, and his head too.

Where is your head with regards to your H?

I read RSF's posts and think that is probably the only way my H would change his mind about his feelings for me, although I don't think he'd ever admit anyway, He'd just let me go.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: A New Normal...getting there. - 08/31/09 05:59 AM
newgal- H left 9 months ago. I believe that he was extremely distracted by one or more other women.

My H is asking me to go to a movie with him or a play...just the two of us but I tried the doormat approach (dating occasionally, listening, validating, having sex) for months and I finally said no more.

Where my head is? I have accepted that divorce is imminent. I am clear that I need to move on...but, I am still heartbroken for my kids and have the tiniest window open to H.
Posted By: aliveandkicking I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:07 AM
So, I received an email about H's travel plans tonight.

And then, an email detailing why he is the way he is and acknowledging how impossible he was in the M, and that he discovered so many emails in which I was so supportive and loving during our M and how beautiful and wonderful I am and what a jerk he is and really in depth analysis about his faults and self-centeredness and unpredictability.

And, just when you think this is a potentially good thing...it is because of his astrological sign and there is nothing he can do about it and he has accepted himself the way he is.

And again, that I am beautiful and a great person and he is glad to see me doing so well and if he were me he would stay away from (his astrological sign).

So, what the F*ck do I do with that????

He followed with a text letting me know he had sent me a "revealing" email...alert the press, I have an email from H that can't wait...
Posted By: Sara Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:21 AM
Let me guess....he is a scorpio. Yes? No?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:24 AM
No. But seriously, this is just so obnoxious and I don't know what to do with it. So self-important. There was admission of guilt and culpability and having skewed the truth to suit his ambitions...but, then, basically, "it isn't my fault because it is written in the stars"...

WTF?

And Sara, I hope you'll give me your take because I think you're a pretty sharp gal.
Posted By: Kalni Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:48 AM
I know I am not a sharp gal, but my take on this is TOUGH LOVE or how ever you guys call it. Dont bother to reply, do not make small talk about this with him. He is far from getting back in the M and he is still very self absorved.

Please, dont let this get you off balance. An email should not make any difference at this point. You are wondering what it means? To me it means that in the middle of his crazy life he had a "weak" moment because he sees you are different now but I doubt he will it follow up with anything else if you fall for it. (I wish for you, he does. I just doubt he will).

My stbxh still says to this day "he wasnt made of family material". Only he figured that out after creating a family...
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 07:02 AM
You certainly are a sharp gal. I have a lot of respect for you. I hope you will recognize that your loyalty to your H was a positive reflection on you and who you are and he was a lying a**hole. I know that isn't what you posted about but you put yourself down! Everyone here really admires you.

Anyway, as for H, ya, I see this as a massive cop-out and even more reflective of why he was so hard to live with..."yes, I did x, y, z but it is not my fault"...but this one takes the cake! I mean "it is written in the stars"...that he has to be a jerk????

...just a bit much, really.
Posted By: Kalni Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 07:22 AM
No, I dont put myself down, I know who I am and what I am worth. I was being "funny" (ie a smart@ss) because of your comment to Sara (Sara, how are you?).

At some point we need to see them for what they are.
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 07:33 AM
Ok, well I guess I missed the humor but I was trying to give you a compliment.

Quote:
At some point we need to see them for what they are.


That is the challenge, I suppose.

Exhausted, going to bed. Good night...or good morning. wink
Posted By: Kalni Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 07:42 AM
Thanks a&k for the compliment, you are kind.
Good night,
K
Posted By: tristan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 12:32 PM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Let me guess....he is a scorpio. Yes? No?


Hey now. All us Scorpios aren't all bad.
Posted By: AlexEN Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 12:35 PM
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: Sara
Let me guess....he is a scorpio. Yes? No?


Hey now. All us Scorpios aren't all bad.


Yeah, what do you have against us Scorpios???

-AlexEN
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 12:42 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
No. But seriously, this is just so obnoxious and I don't know what to do with it. So self-important. There was admission of guilt and culpability and having skewed the truth to suit his ambitions...but, then, basically, "it isn't my fault because it is written in the stars"...


Well, I'm sure not defending this stuff but I feel compelled to share from the other side. I've personally held some views and convinced myself to believe some things that I later discovered were ridiculous. And yes, they're too embarrassing to post here. I'm a data point of one but I know at least one person can change for the better. To me that equals hope. Not suggesting any change in course, just wanted to throw that point in the mix.
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 01:15 PM
Quote:
He followed with a text letting me know he had sent me a "revealing" email...alert the press, I have an email from H that can't wait... ]


laugh

Call a news conference. Stop the presses.....

"We interrupt this thread for this very important announcement"


AAK's husband has texted her that he sent a "revealing" email...



Now back to our regularly scheduled program...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:27 PM
Ha, Gucci, down side to "dating" is when you get blown off by new person...so I'm dealing with that which sure as sh*t isn't gonna kill me because I've got bigger fish to fry but I'm a tad bruised.

For better or worse, I responded to H's email...and I feel I did well. I was brief and essentially clarified..."you are telling me you are a jerk and there is nothing you can do about it because it is written"..."your life your choice"..."I am not who I was nine months ago. I am in the present and I have made peace with myself and our past"..."I think we've pretty much covered everything regarding our R"...

his answer, "right"

DBing aside. I want this to stop. I feel I made myself clear without overindulging him. I am losing my focus and I need to get back on track. Completely ignoring leaves me with a feeling of dread as to what is coming next. I'm done listening to him talk about himself (at least in this way)...
Posted By: Sara Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:28 PM
Nothing against scorpios. I was just guessing. I can't think of another sign that is known for hurting other people. (Scorpios are known for stinging with their tails.) Personally, I am a water sign, and get along quite well with scorpios.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:30 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
No. But seriously, this is just so obnoxious and I don't know what to do with it. So self-important. There was admission of guilt and culpability and having skewed the truth to suit his ambitions...but, then, basically, "it isn't my fault because it is written in the stars"...


Well, I'm sure not defending this stuff but I feel compelled to share from the other side. I've personally held some views and convinced myself to believe some things that I later discovered were ridiculous. And yes, they're too embarrassing to post here. I'm a data point of one but I know at least one person can change for the better. To me that equals hope. Not suggesting any change in course, just wanted to throw that point in the mix.


Yes, I think change is possible but my life can't wait. I hope he does change for his sake and our kids sake because always looking for some cosmic or external (it is not my fault kind of explanation) is a really weak way to live.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:33 PM
Originally Posted By: Sara
Nothing against scorpios. I was just guessing. I can't think of another sign that is known for hurting other people. (Scorpios are known for stinging with their tails.) Personally, I am a water sign, and get along quite well with scorpios.


His sign is not about hurting people...his sign is about impulsiveness and self-indulgence and narcissism...

But this is bull-crap. I can get into astrology here and there but you don't just a) blame your short-comings on your sign and b) resign yourself to basically the most primitive version of yourself based on what you read in a book...

Regardless, fine, so he says this is who he is...I'm not interested. I'm really turned off.
Posted By: Sara Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:40 PM
Damn. Now I really want to know. Of course, there's also the ascendant, and all the planets. Just knowing the sun sign is not really to get much insight at all.

Of course, you are right. It is easy shrugging off of any responsibility for his own actions. And it is kind of "girlish". I can't think of any man who believes in astrology.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 03:45 PM
Well, it is Aries and he'll believe in anything that justifies him doing what he needs to do to get to his destination (super-fantastic-important-celebu-guy-ism)...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 05:25 PM
Just communicating with H about time to pick up kids...H texted that he had the"weirdest f*cking dream ever with me"...

anyhoo whistle
Posted By: Coach Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 05:34 PM
Quote:
Just communicating with H about time to pick up kids...H texted that he had the"weirdest f*cking dream ever with me"...


Don't take the bait. Remember you are living this weirdest f'n reality with him....
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 05:43 PM
LOL...ya Coach, you see a pattern here???

I am going out of town next week, thankfully.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:00 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just communicating with H about time to pick up kids...H texted that he had the"weirdest f*cking dream ever with me"...


LOL (nervous laugh) So a few weeks ago, when I was still in shock and delirious I guess, I had a dream about W, It was partly sexual but not really, partly this feeling of hugging, love and closeness and some white light, etc. (yeah, I know it sounds dorky but it was very real to me). I woke up in a blissful happiness then realized it was a dream. I later told her about it. She wasn't impressed.

As I hear your reaction to all these things your H is doing or has done, I'm starting to feel like I'm effed! Might as well pack it in. I've been sincere but maybe that doesn't matter and maybe I look like an idiot. LOL. or maybe he's my alter ego. Who knows.

Makes me wonder if Hs and Ws ever get crossed up on this forum. That would be a mess.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:08 PM
Listen RSF- the esoteric and dreamy stuff comes off as juvenile but looking your W in the eyes and telling her you love her and want to be with her and that you have worked on yourself and you are sorry...all of that is substantial (and the stuff I get none of)...

No woman in her right mind can consider taking an H back because he has a whim, or had a dream, or saw a psychic...way too shallow.

Actually, it was a dream that prompted H to come back last time. No, we've got to grow up here and make choices, real concrete choices backed by actions.

Cuz, you and I know that one can have a multitude of dreams at any given time...so what?

I don't want some random, fell out of the sky drama, I want a man who knows what he wants and knows he wants me.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:29 PM
I like your strong position on that. I was puking my emotional guts up when I told her about the dream. I'm in much better control now. If I didn't have this forum for an outlet I don't know if I'd be very far along. How long did it take you to get to a clear and confident position on what you want and need? I ask that both from the perspective of wondering about myself and my W.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 06:32 PM
Has taken my whole life. wink

more specifics later. Out and about.
Posted By: Thinker Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 08:43 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan

Makes me wonder if Hs and Ws ever get crossed up on this forum. That would be a mess.


Wonder if it has ever happened - both a WAS and an LBS here and logging at the same time without realizing they were both here...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 08:50 PM
I'm sure they'd end up giving each other advice.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 08:58 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
I like your strong position on that. I was puking my emotional guts up when I told her about the dream. I'm in much better control now. If I didn't have this forum for an outlet I don't know if I'd be very far along. How long did it take you to get to a clear and confident position on what you want and need? I ask that both from the perspective of wondering about myself and my W.


I had a pretty good idea from the get go but the problem has been my unshakeable attachment to marriage itself and keeping my family together. So, I really wasn't dealing with reality...

It was when I was really at my bottom, fantasizing about suicide, in so much pain that I went away for a few days and really turned things around. It became clear that if I didn't change my expectations, I would become more and more depressed and my kids would be more damaged.

I still have moments of "this can't really be happening," but, I know that I will survive and thrive if I allow myself to.

Also, I don't know if I will find the perfect guy... crazy...I just know that I want to feel a peace and joy with whoever I'm with and not this anxiety and constant drama. A LOT of that has to do with me and how I handle myself and what I make space for in my life.

Today at H's, I saw a book about how to hone one's PSYCHIC abilities...he is convinced he is psychic (I know because he has told me many times) and has been watching magic DVDs and practicing tricks...I'm not getting a "stable" vibe from him. eek
Posted By: Thinker Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 08:58 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm sure they'd end up giving each other advice.


Wait! Are you by chance...? wink laugh
Posted By: Coach Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Thinker
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm sure they'd end up giving each other advice.


Wait! Are you by chance...? wink laugh


Cue the "Pina Colada" song. sick sick sick
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:01 PM
No because I no you're not a psychic star-f*cker. grin

But, otherwise, I'm sure I could be...many of the hers here.
Posted By: tristan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:02 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

Today at H's, I saw a book about how to hone one's PSYCHIC abilities...he is convinced he is psychic (I know because he has told me many times) and has been watching magic DVDs and practicing tricks...I'm not getting a "stable" vibe from him. eek



I will admit that even though my W has been diagnosed, I think your husband seems less stable than her.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:06 PM
In all serious, I have noticed that when I see the books about being psychic or read emails like the one about the astrology, a wave of fear comes over me. I get it in check but really, this is classic narcissist stuff...thinking he has supernatural powers and is of ultra-significance to this planet.

I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.

But, I am trying not to fall into the fear and just keep focusing on myself and having my sh*t together.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:10 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Today at H's, I saw a book about how to hone one's PSYCHIC abilities...he is convinced he is psychic (I know because he has told me many times) and has been watching magic DVDs and practicing tricks...I'm not getting a "stable" vibe from him. eek


NO WAY!!!!! I'm psychic too!

OK, not!

But I did just buy a learn to play classical guitar DVD...everybody has their own approach to GAL.

You're a good person and good mom. It's strong people on this forum like you who give me strength to keep going. I hope I can give something back at some point myself.
Posted By: Dia Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:14 PM
I had one of those about H. frown Felt like getting run over by a semi when I realized it wasn't real. Didn't tell H, tho. Sigh.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:15 PM
Very funny.

Guitar is a great GAL.

Honing your psychic abilities? Ok, who am I to judge? confused

Quote:
You're a good person and good mom. It's strong people on this forum like you who give me strength to keep going. I hope I can give something back at some point myself.


Nice! Thanks. You are giving something back already, I've gotten a lot out of your posts.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:15 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But, I am trying not to fall into the fear and just keep focusing on myself and having my sh*t together.


Stay grounded, steady and focused over the long-term and kids will be fine smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Dia
I had one of those about H. frown Felt like getting run over by a semi when I realized it wasn't real. Didn't tell H, tho. Sigh.


The dream? My H didn't tell me what his was about. Just that is was "the weirdest f*cking dream ever"...

I too have had the good dreams where I woke up and it obviously wasn't real... frown
Posted By: robx Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 08/31/09 09:25 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, and BTW, my topic is a wish for "dreams of a new normal"...if I could see it, I could move toward it.


Just reading this small part, it's something that's close to home for me.

Do you need to see to believe or can you believe without seeing it?
Posted By: robx Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 08/31/09 09:30 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Thanks for the laugh Sara.

Well, if I tell him he can't work on his computer, I can't very well complain about him not giving me money.

But, I see that until all of our things are physically separated, there will be excuses.

In the narcissist paradigm, H is wounded because of my disapproval and seeks it desperately.

My part, I'm so wounded by my own childhood, I can't seem to close the door on a possible R...and saving the marriage. But, I realize that I need space and boundaries so desperately.

I am super pissed off right now. And he succeeds at making me question, Gee, what's my problem? Kids freaking out, no money, no job, and H constantly reaffirming that it was my fault...why am I not a shiny happy person around him?

Anyway, this is getting old.


Arguing with someone, anyone is a sign of disrespect.
Something in you doesn't respect him and he argues with you because he doesn't respect you.

How do we fix this?

Who stops fighting first?

Question: if you could have your relationship with your husband and have a great marriage as opposed to it's current state, what would it look like? What would he be like if you could have him be a specific way? What good things would he do when it comes to you? What needs would he be fulfilling that aren't taken care of now? What would he want from you that he currently thinks you don't provide?

I know I'm coming in a little late on this thread so forgive me for asking some questions you've probably answered a million times already. Where are you guys at currently? How long has it been like this? Do you still love him? (remember love is a choice you make, attraction may be involuntary but love is a definite choice)
Posted By: robx Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 08/31/09 09:33 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, I was very pleasant with H tonight (anyone see the movie Sybil crazy) but when he suggested leaving his laundry...uh, no. And then he lingered around sifting through things to take, I told him now wasn't the best time for this and then as he persisted, I said "Ok, I think it is time for you to go now" and I went and opened the front door and led him out." All very civil but the feeling of having him casually plucking items just unnerved me so.

I did good.

He called me after to thank me for letting him work here. I thanked him for working. And that was that.

He called again but didn't answer, haven't checked the messages yet.

Tomorrows topic- Is WASness a form of temporary insanity? TBD.


So in your current situation, your H is the WAS?
Did he have an affair? What was his reason for leaving?

Sometimes we have to recognize the signs of a WAS that wants to come back but doesn't know how or feels really bad about what they've done and feels it's impossible to apologize to atone for what they've done. Why do you think he wanted to linger? To spend more time around you or just to snoop around your stuff?
Posted By: tristan Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 09:35 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.



While we are talking on this. What actually scares me about my W is that to an outsider, she seems perfectly normal and absolutely in control. Robx is right that she knows what she is doing. Right now she seems to be in the mode of get seperated and do it as quickly as possible. Nothing is going to stop her.
Posted By: robx Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/31/09 09:41 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.


Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes. The economy being what it is, if you have the opportunity to work and earn money to support yourself and you choose not to, that may not be something that works out in your favor.
Posted By: robx Re: Guys? Anyone? - 08/31/09 09:46 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I highly recommend NOT getting a tattoo at this juncture. The likelihood that what we would choose today will match what we want etched on our bodies a year from now is pretty slim.

I can't even decide what I want for lunch, where I want to live, how I want to make a living...I sure as sh*t am not gonna commit to branding something on my bod.


seems to me you should re-read your own post and apply it to many other things going on in your life, namely your husband. How many times have we all sold ourselves out of our marriages only to buy ourselves back in at a price we wish was just a little lower (dignity, pride, ego, embarrassment, confusion, etc.).

Are you really committed to ending this marriage with your husband? Is there no way for you to see any possibility of reconciling with him?
Posted By: robx Re: PEEPS...help a mother out, please... - 08/31/09 09:53 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But, the goal...I don't have one anymore other than handling my life with sanity and civility and setting small goals that I can meet.

Where H fits in this, I'm not sure. But, I know I do not feel good this morning, so that's a clue.

I responded to the text but not the email invitation.


I'm kind of on the other side of the fence from you AAK. Kind of where your husband is. My hope/wish for W would be that she either decides that she's 100% finished with me or that she decides what criteria might allow her to consider having me back and be diligent about allowing things to evolve and unfold in a way that is safe and fair for everyone.

I get that this is idealistic and unreasonable for me to expect this but that's what I would wish for. Just seems to me that if either or both parties can have a plan it would increase the likelihood of a better outcome.


Absolutely, but I had a plan and it failed and I was miserable. I have a very clear understanding of what happened with us. He knows my expectation for a marriage with him would require us to do specific things with me...

I have not gotten ONE word that indicates he wants or is ready to get back together.

All I have is that when I pull away, he comes toward me...that's it.

If he said he wanted to get back together, that might be different.

If he came to me with a plan...that would be hot hot hot.

If he wants to date me, he can treat me like a lady...the invitation was a start.

So, to be clear, you are where my H MAY be eventually, but he has no where near the level of contrition, clarity or understanding that you do.


Some people are dense and they require it spelled out for them, it sucks but hey communication between the 2 of you may actually be improved if you told him what you wanted (not needed, there is a difference) from him if ever wanted to make this work.
Posted By: robx Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 10:07 PM
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.



While we are talking on this. What actually scares me about my W is that to an outsider, she seems perfectly normal and absolutely in control. Robx is right that she knows what she is doing. Right now she seems to be in the mode of get seperated and do it as quickly as possible. Nothing is going to stop her.


They have to do it as quickly as possible,
there is a sense of urgency with this, make no mistake about it. The quicker that this is done, there is less time available for people to say things to make them doubt their actions, people like you, parents, friends, co-workers, themselves, etc. Take into account that while all of this is happening, she is feeling guilty but there isn't enough guilt for her to stop doing any of this or maybe the flipside is true, she feels so guilty that she has to leave because of the pain & trouble she is causing you & your family.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 08/31/09 10:14 PM
robx- First of all, thanks for checking out my thread.

It has been almost nine months since H left.

It has taken me almost as long to finally stop f*cking around and move on with my life (I am backsliding a bit even indulging). I am going to answer your questions and then try to recap any details that are missing but pertinent.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a New Normal... - 08/31/09 10:16 PM
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, and BTW, my topic is a wish for "dreams of a new normal"...if I could see it, I could move toward it.


Just reading this small part, it's something that's close to home for me.

Do you need to see to believe or can you believe without seeing it?



I get tastes of it (feeling like I am not trapped in a twilight zone episode).

When I experience it, I believe it more. I know I will get there and I don't have to see it per se. But, when I can imagine the essence of what it will be like, it is easier...

I hope that makes sense.
Quote:
Arguing with someone, anyone is a sign of disrespect.
Something in you doesn't respect him and he argues with you because he doesn't respect you.


There is little to no arguing now. The post you quoted was about dealing with the boundaries of our home with his stuff still here even though he lives elsewhere.

I definitely lost respect for him when he was bragging constantly, obsessing about what others think of him, me, our marriage our kids, comparing me and us to other people, spending money recklessly when we were plunging into debt, being inattentive to what was happening in our home when he was here (making things more chaotic, being impulsive and juvenile)...

Knowing that my H was so immature and so fixated on celebrities and the fantasy life, really felt threatening to me. No excuses, I was tough but I felt that I had to be the one to TCB...I wrote at length about it on another thread...to you actually, I think it was ttrose's thread.


Quote:
How do we fix this?

Who stops fighting first?


It is done. I do not fight with him anymore. Ever. And I absorbed a whole truckload of cr*p when he was leaving.

Quote:
Question: if you could have your relationship with your husband and have a great marriage as opposed to it's current state, what would it look like?


Painful to even visualize as I have worked my a** off to detach and let him go. But I will try, when it feels do-able wink . First, I think context is important.

Quote:
What would he be like if you could have him be a specific way? What good things would he do when it comes to you? What needs would he be fulfilling that aren't taken care of now? What would he want from you that he currently thinks you don't provide?

I know I'm coming in a little late on this thread so forgive me for asking some questions you've probably answered a million times already. Where are you guys at currently? How long has it been like this? Do you still love him? (remember love is a choice you make, attraction may be involuntary but love is a definite choice)


Yes, love is a choice. I do love him. I don't like him right now. I am not "in love" with him. Fortunately.

He left nine months ago (went to sleep at friends' houses and travelled a bunch until finally getting his own place (well,paid for by rich friend) about 2 months ago), tore into me as to how it was my fault. I took the hit. He left town, I lost a bunch of weight, started working out and though I was a frickin disaster inside, I looked good and appeared to be managing well. When he came back and saw me, he flipped out and was angry (oh now you x,y and z) which I now understand is because he had already crossed some threshold (OW perhaps).

Never since he left has he really left me alone. I have stayed out of his business. I have validated, apologized, analyzed, discussed, made myself vulnerable, went on dates with him, had sex with him. It is all documented somewhere on here but it was really awful because no matter what, he felt that his "destiny" was to leave etc. Any positive interaction was deemed negative after the fact because it didn't fit with his decision to leave, so my efforts were futile.

What he wanted was to feel like a "man" to be a big shot in the entertainment biz, to have a girlfriend who could go out with him every night (he doesn't remember telling me this)...he wants to be around important people with fame and money (which he has succeeded in doing)...but, we are broke and in debt.

In our M, I was neurotic, demeaning, critical, withheld sex (not intentionally, I had lost attraction and it was very frustrating and demoralizing for me as well) although, I still spiced it up on occasion and made efforts. Often I was visibly bored and unenthusiastic about sex. I felt objectified and used because our M was cr*p and the s*x became one of the only area he put any effort into.

He has body issues. I fell in love with him with extra weight on him but his self-loathing and lack of connection to his body really affected our sex life and his confidence. I felt I was f*cking a boy not a man.

Toward the end I could feel our M falling apart and I gained some weight and got depressed and was very much like the WAWs here. I looked fine but felt very insecure, especially with him bragging about other women coming on to him, other beautiful, successful, famous women...he says that was a "cry for help"...I felt like a piece of sh*t and started to fantasize about leaving.

But, divorce was totally terrifying to me, I'd almost have preferred death, having experienced both divorce as a child and the subsequent death of a parent, processing the divorce was harder...so, knowing my husband was checked out, I was depressed and I didn't have DB and instead of stepping up my game, I sunk deeper and felt helpless and told him I could see he was so miserable and I didn't know what to do so maybe we should separate. He said, "But you're cute and I love you"...and that was enough for me. I did try to be intimate to reach out to him. I am a very straight forward communicator. I could feel what was happening. I articulated to him what I wanted, a balance, for us to reconnect. That when he looked at me, he didn't see me, that when he touched me he didn't feel me that I loved him and wanted our family but felt I was in purgatory not knowing if I would be married from one day to the next.

If I had to simplify, basically, we were broke with two kids and an unglamorous life of our own creation. He blamed me and us for his lack of success (despite the fact that he is very accomplished and talented, the money has not been what he hoped for)...I was critical and interested in the "reality" of our situation and family life...

I was essentially competing with glamorous people who would a) feed his ego and b) had a lifestyle he wanted but couldn't afford.

I cannot provide a care-free, obligation free life with constant sex and adoration. That seems to be what he wants.

I might add that he was out all the time and I was about as cool a wife as I could be about it because he had left once before and that was a huge issue so I recognized that it was important to him and asked that he just be home a couple of nights a week for dinner (when he stuck to that, things were better).

H has blamed me in the past for just about everything some of it too absurd to even write here. He felt emasculated but as I explained in another post, he was so indecisive that I ended up TCB and I did not feel secure that he had the best interests of our family at heart.

What I could have/should have done in the M- lightened up, procured my own source of income so I wouldn't feel so unstable, cultivated my own interests, had sex more and probably gone into my own therapy to build my self-esteem. I wanted to be a full time mom because a) that is my #1 value and b) with H's crazy lifestyle, I felt it was imperative that my kids have at least one parent who is predictable, available, makes dinner, gets them to bed etc.

Ironically, when I did finally get a job things went down hill fast. I think it was actually threatening to him. I was not readily available to him as I had been from the moment we began dating 14 years ago.

To his credit, he tried to get me to come out with him but with no money for babysitters it was tough. Sadly, instead of busting my a** to try to foray more into his world, I pulled back, felt threatened by all of his "friends" and his preoccupation with them and their money and fabulousness. I was tired of hearing about the fantastic lives of all of these people and being compared to them.

I have clearly apologized for my part and I mean down to the specifics, I have changed so much. I look good, I go out, I have chilled out about the kids (providing utopia is obviously not gonna happen)...he knows from the sex we had that it is possible for us to have it often and good (but not in the cake-eating paradigm). I spent a good deal of time taking an interest in his work, listening like a lover, lauding his work, sharing little of my own life and focusing on him which he seemed to like. But, now he is stuck. He told everyone he knows who knows what to gain their approval and sympathy, he straight out lied to our mutual friend that I was pursuing him for sex and he had to turn me down (was the opposite), that I took my ring off (3 months after he did and had made it clear he was seeing other women), that I never supported him or took and interest in his work (I devoted my life to him and his work), that I called him fat and disgusting while having sex (did not happen)...so, now what? How the heck does he get out of that?

Now, what I want and always wanted was a balance. I wanted one night a week to take a class or do something for myself. He could not commit to that because of his social life which had to take priority (shmoozing), however, if he found a class or something he needed to commit to, he found a way. I wanted him to have dinner home a couple of nights a week. Now, I would want those things AND, I would want he and I to go out together at least twice a week (that's a lot for me but would be worth it).

But, he is still acting like a froot loop with the bragging and self-importance and pre-occupation with what others think...he seems very MLC, desperately trying to lose weight, honing his psychic abilities, glomming on to his rich friends as if they were his family, posting pictures of himself with models on his FB page, new clothes, new image, very poser-like (IYKWIM)...I don't know how I could manage living with all of that insecurity.

What I did propose was that we stay separated and be in the present and look at each other through a new lens. That as long as he insists that any time with me is negative and antithetical to his achieving his destiny, I am not interested. I do not want to discuss his life or other women etc.

When I left town recently, he basically text stalked me..."I hope this guy treated you better than I did"...etc. He tried to bribe me to tell him where I was going by offering to tell me what famous actress came on to him one night I didn't go out with him before he left...twisted.

He is by a couple of therapists accounts likely a clinical narcissist which means that his attention toward me has little or nothing to do with love and everything to do with his ego. I think he would need some serious help to make this work together or even in his own life.

But, I try to just see him as a person because I am not a therapist.

Anyway, that's a start.




Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Any thoughts about the work thing? If your stbx offered to hook you up, would you accept? Feels a tad whorie to me but then so does being nicer to him so he'll give me money.


Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes. The economy being what it is, if you have the opportunity to work and earn money to support yourself and you choose not to, that may not be something that works out in your favor.



The issue is, and I have plenty of documentation, his constant contact and butting into my business. If he has a lead or an opportunity, I will pursue it but I will not have him as a middle man. I think I could easily explain that. My sanity is too important. The offer came when I had not been responding to him and that is the pattern...he finds something I just have to respond to.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: I'm hurting...but okay...help... - 09/01/09 12:28 AM
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm hoping it is just grasping at straws and gravity will bring him down to reality. But, it scares me. And his influencing the kids scares me because I think that mentality is so dangerous.



While we are talking on this. What actually scares me about my W is that to an outsider, she seems perfectly normal and absolutely in control. Robx is right that she knows what she is doing. Right now she seems to be in the mode of get seperated and do it as quickly as possible. Nothing is going to stop her.


They have to do it as quickly as possible,
there is a sense of urgency with this, make no mistake about it. The quicker that this is done, there is less time available for people to say things to make them doubt their actions, people like you, parents, friends, co-workers, themselves, etc. Take into account that while all of this is happening, she is feeling guilty but there isn't enough guilt for her to stop doing any of this or maybe the flipside is true, she feels so guilty that she has to leave because of the pain & trouble she is causing you & your family.


Oh, in my case, H just bailed. I will probably have to file something so that I can get a certain amount and move into my own place and have a clear idea of what my financial situation is. So, he's not rushing to divorce. I think he would prefer to be married and do his thing...less to deal with.
Quote:
Say this gets really ugly in a legal sense between your lawyer and his lawyer should it ever get to that, if you're given job opportunities and you choose not to pursue them for personal reasons, I'm not sure how that's going to put you in a positive light in anyone's eyes.


Nahh. Court won't buy it. Nobody's expected to take job offers from their ex. Conflict-of-interest, don't you know? "Mon dieu! Eef Ah can get zee Ecks a'hoo-ked up wis ze Job, zen Ah doonat have to pay zee alee-moan-eee! Zoot alors! D'accord!"
Quote:
"Mon dieu! Eef Ah can get zee Ecks a'hoo-ked up wis ze Job, zen Ah doonat have to pay zee alee-moan-eee! Zoot alors! D'accord!"


Wow, you sound just like him. wink
Ok robx, what do you have a life or something?
Robx- poured my guts out about a page ago, when you get a chance, please take a look.

Last night H and I discussed our coming discussion about the stuff of which neither of us are willing to just outright discuss ($$, divorce, my moving with the kids)...I got off the phone and called a friend and sobbed which surprised me but was okay. I am so prepared but still my kids are going to be so heart broken because they are hoping H will come back.

So, I cried and then I moved on. I was reminded that even though I am doing well, I'm not going to slide through divorce (or whatever this is) without some pain.

Lick wound, get back up, keep going.
Posted By: tristan Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/01/09 04:02 PM
I'm sorry that it still hurts. It's hard to imagine going through 9 months of this, but I guess I need to prepare for it. Hope the discussion turns out well for you. Good luck.
Thanks. The good news is that I cried and I moved on. I am not tormented.

Like life in general, you really need to be prepared for anything, right?
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Anyway, that's a start.


A&K,

I completely missed this yesterday. I read this and it is uncanny how many things are similar to my sitch. I spent 5 years running my own agency somewhat successful then tanked when the bubble burst. W was there for me without question. Similarities, on and on and on. It makes me sad because I see her in your situation but it also gives me hope for both of us because I know my eyes are open now and if I can do it, so can he. As I watch you processing things I think that someday W may be able to start on a path of reconciliation with me. I know we have to take care of ourselves, detach and move forward but I have hope for both of us even though I cant see exactly what the future will look like.
RSF- The sad part is that my window is still open and my expectations are pretty low. But, he's no where near "there". Although, how the hell do I know where he is? Maybe he's sh*tting his pants as the lease is ending and we have to actually take the next steps.

It is said- "Believe nothing you hear and only half of what you see." I seem to forget this every time I talk to him...
Was it entertainment agency? Lalaland?
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Although, how the hell do I know where he is?


You have *no* idea where he is. No one, including myself, would have believed I could be where I am today. Huge change is possible. I'm proof of that.

Still, timing is everything. So we take care of ourselves, own our part and put the rest in some bigger hands. Right?
You know, there's one other thing that comes to mind. I don't know that much about narcissism but I do know that one thing I'm not completely in touch with yet is how much I have NOT forgiven myself for all the hurt I've caused W. I think that lack of forgiveness gets projected out, can turn into blame, and convincing oneself of all sorts of things like self importance, etc. I think it can also stand in the way of asking for forgiveness from others. I've asked for forgiveness and kind of forgiven myself but not really all the way (this whole deep feelings thing is brand new to me, can you tell?). Anyway, it sure seems like its hard and I can see how so many people may not even be able to see it well enough to figure out how to get past it. Does that make sense?

BTW. What does it say about me when I keep using myself as an example....YIKES...LOL!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Was it entertainment agency? Lalaland?


No. Marketing & Advertising.
Posted By: Dia Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/01/09 05:00 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
You know, there's one other thing that comes to mind. I don't know that much about narcissism but I do know that one thing I'm not completely in touch with yet is how much I have NOT forgiven myself for all the hurt I've caused W. I think that lack of forgiveness gets projected out, can turn into blame, and convincing oneself of all sorts of things like self importance, etc. I think it can also stand in the way of asking for forgiveness from others. I've asked for forgiveness and kind of forgiven myself but not really all the way


This is some good stuff.

I struggled for a long, dark time with being able to forgive myself. First, it takes a brutally honest examination and ownership of your own failings, foibles and general contributions to the marital mess. It takes acknowledging these completely separate and independent from anything your spouse might have done/not done. In fact, I found that when I was in the space of working on forgiving me, I was utterly and completely unconcerned with anything H had done - and I think that was good. It stopped the blame cycle.

When I finally got to a place where I had forgiven myself, I found I had forgiven him, too, and without even trying. It was as if I'd flipped a switch.
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
You know, there's one other thing that comes to mind. I don't know that much about narcissism but I do know that one thing I'm not completely in touch with yet is how much I have NOT forgiven myself for all the hurt I've caused W. I think that lack of forgiveness gets projected out, can turn into blame, and convincing oneself of all sorts of things like self importance, etc. I think it can also stand in the way of asking for forgiveness from others. I've asked for forgiveness and kind of forgiven myself but not really all the way (this whole deep feelings thing is brand new to me, can you tell?). Anyway, it sure seems like its hard and I can see how so many people may not even be able to see it well enough to figure out how to get past it. Does that make sense?

BTW. What does it say about me when I keep using myself as an example....YIKES...LOL!



Yes, this is so common. Often when one is cheating he/she blames the other for pushing them to do it or finds fault with their partner and doesn't even correlate it to the OP...

Also, in my sitch, my H really screwed up when our second son was born (left town even though I begged him not too and missed his birth). I did fine and I forgave him but I think that was truly the beginning of the end because he saw himself as that guy, not the family first guy he had been prior. So, ya, narcissism is very much about creating a false self and that can be motivated by guilt, insecurity, lack of fulfillment...some people wake up to reality if it is an acute case and some just can't let it go. I don't know who the real H is in my sitch. I don't know if the false self was the family guy, devoted husband or if it is the star-chasing self-gratifier...if he is a true narcissist, he is neither, just a lost soul.

You are doing great with the deep feelings and looking at yourself.

Oh, and what it says about you that you are using yourself as an example is that you are willing to own your sh*t and also to give something here. Good stuff.
Quote:
I struggled for a long, dark time with being able to forgive myself. First, it takes a brutally honest examination and ownership of your own failings, foibles and general contributions to the marital mess. It takes acknowledging these completely separate and independent from anything your spouse might have done/not done. In fact, I found that when I was in the space of working on forgiving me, I was utterly and completely unconcerned with anything H had done - and I think that was good. It stopped the blame cycle.

When I finally got to a place where I had forgiven myself, I found I had forgiven him, too, and without even trying. It was as if I'd flipped a switch.


As the LBS, I was able to do this pretty early on. It astounds some people who know me that I take such ownership of my part and forgive (not excuse) H's behavior. It is a very empowering experience. I am not a victim and my life is my responsibility, keeps me from sinking further into the pit of despair to be mindful of that.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It astounds some people who know me that I take such ownership of my part and forgive (not excuse) H's behavior. It is a very empowering experience. I am not a victim and my life is my responsibility, keeps me from sinking further into the pit of despair to be mindful of that.


This is the same thing my W has told me. Almost word for word. She has said she's healed but when we sat and cried toegther I realized how much she wasn't healed and how much hurt is still there. In fact I caused the wound to be reopened when I showed up telling her I loved her and wanted to save our marriage. I have the hardest time reconciling all of the hurt with the fact that she says she's forgiven me. It doesn't feel like she's forgiven me at all. Seems like she just tucked it all inside and and got her life under control.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
You are doing great with the deep feelings and looking at yourself.

Thanks. I feel pretty dorky sometimes.
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It astounds some people who know me that I take such ownership of my part and forgive (not excuse) H's behavior. It is a very empowering experience. I am not a victim and my life is my responsibility, keeps me from sinking further into the pit of despair to be mindful of that.


This is the same thing my W has told me. Almost word for word. She has said she's healed but when we sat and cried toegther I realized how much she wasn't healed and how much hurt is still there. In fact I caused the wound to be reopened when I showed up telling her I loved her and wanted to save our marriage. I have the hardest time reconciling all of the hurt with the fact that she says she's forgiven me. It doesn't feel like she's forgiven me at all. Seems like she just tucked it all inside and and got her life under control.


Yes, you hurt her. But, the hurt is hers. This is heady stuff but early on in my sitch, I realized that the hurt I felt was the same hurt I felt as a child or in other traumatic situations. She has her path and in some way, this experience is her opportunity to process her own pain and evolve, grow and mature as a woman.

She is not a victim just as I am not. H has hurt me and between he and I, there is healing that would need to happen (I think together or apart). But, my own personal healing is my responsibility. She has choices, she wants to be her own person and make her own decisions. She wants to feel whole and okay without you before she could contemplate being with you. The OM is just a spoke in the wheel (IMO)...but, the major theme is that she wants to live her own life on her own terms. If she has the guts to live up to her own expectations, she will likely rid of him. His pressuring her is just one more opportunity for her to woman up and do her own thing. It is all her call. She chose him, he's challenging her and a win for her (IMO) would be to take herself back from him to and be on her own.

That was a giant paragraph of assumptions and projections but maybe some truth there.

Point is, you've got your culpability in your R with her. But, she is a sovereign individual on her own path, obviously. You have served her in some ways (perverse as it seems). It sucks, we hurt those we love, we get in dynamics that we end up regretting (I have my own remorse) but I have faith that H and I are each fully equipped to make what we want out of it. It's not so bad when I look at it that way. We aren't damaged, we have more information, what I do with it is my business and what he does with it is his...

anyhoo...I'm never short on words. grin
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
You are doing great with the deep feelings and looking at yourself.

Thanks. I feel pretty dorky sometimes.


That's really endearing somehow...
Posted By: tristan Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/01/09 06:03 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
She is not a victim just as I am not. H has hurt me and between he and I, there is healing that would need to happen (I think together or apart). But, my own personal healing is my responsibility. She has choices, she wants to be her own person and make her own decisions. She wants to feel whole and okay without you before she could contemplate being with you. The OM is just a spoke in the wheel (IMO)...but, the major theme is that she wants to live her own life on her own terms. If she has the guts to live up to her own expectations, she will likely rid of him. His pressuring her is just one more opportunity for her to woman up and do her own thing. It is all her call. She chose him, he's challenging her and a win for her (IMO) would be to take herself back from him to and be on her own.


I hope this is where my W is right now. Its good to hear someone that has been through it say similiar things to what W is saying. Sometimes it is very hard for me to believe the things she says.
Well, I don't know that I've been there...but I can relate, assume, project. grin
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
She is not a victim just as I am not. H has hurt me and between he and I, there is healing that would need to happen (I think together or apart). But, my own personal healing is my responsibility. She has choices, she wants to be her own person and make her own decisions. She wants to feel whole and okay without you before she could contemplate being with you. The OM is just a spoke in the wheel (IMO)...but, the major theme is that she wants to live her own life on her own terms. If she has the guts to live up to her own expectations, she will likely rid of him. His pressuring her is just one more opportunity for her to woman up and do her own thing. It is all her call. She chose him, he's challenging her and a win for her (IMO) would be to take herself back from him to and be on her own.


A&K, I'm almost speechless. I read this three times. It made me cry (I'm new to that too) and it made me realize again how much I want to support her and root for her and cheer her on to victory for herself. I hope this is where she is, I hope she takes herself back and I hope that there's a place for me when she does.
Aha! You love her, cheer from where you are but she has to do it alone. Really.

Oh and we can't presume to know what is right for her. That is the point.

And this is also why you really are going to need to heal yourself and be okay on your own. Tough stuff.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Aha! You love her, cheer from where you are but she has to do it alone. Really.

Oh and we can't presume to know what is right for her. That is the point.

And this is also why you really are going to need to heal yourself and be okay on your own. Tough stuff.


Boooo. If I think of it too much it feels like I'm on a heal yourself and each other forum and not a DBing forum. I want to fight to save my marriage until it doesn't make sense to continue.

[sorry, didn't realize I was posting this on your thread until it was too late]
Ha, hoping robx will check in since I poured my guts out... grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Too Much Funny... - 09/02/09 05:38 AM
So, I was thinking about the issues of respect and judgement after reading another thread...and I realized that it is true that I judge the crap out of H and don't respect him much. Some here have probably concluded that he doesn't behave in a respectable fashion but I decided tonight that seeing as I have pretty much accepted D and H is not my "better half" anymore, I can really lighten up and stop judging...

First I caught myself kind of grilling about where he might take the kids this weekend (of course the home of a famous person) and I literally said, I am going to crawl out from up your a** now...which he really didn't get so I clarified, "I'm all up in your biznis and I don't need to be. I'm sure you'll fill me in if it is happening."

To which he answered basically no problem and asked if I'd seen the movie yet (the one I ignored his invitation to twice) and he has seen it twice and wants to see it again because it is brilliant.

And I was in my kitchen dancing and feeling light and thought what the hey, nothing to lose, I'll say yes when he asks this time. But, he didn't ask...LOL.

He said he was gonna take the kids to see it (violent inappropriate movie, him trying to f*ck with me)...so I say "I already took them" (me being playful instead of busting his balls)...

and then, nothing...no invitation...

So I've skipped 4 invitations and was finally ready to throw caution to the wind and say okay and it didn't happen. And thank the heavens, I can laugh at the irony...cuz a) this is clearly never over and b) I've already let him go and can barely fathom having him as my husband...so, not much at stake.

Actually, when he told me about the celebs house and taking the kids, I thought of SP and all of this talk about do we even want the WAS back and thought "hell no do I want to be living with and raising my kids with such a star-f*cker." I actually had a moment of really wanting to move the kids out of here and away from all of that and minimize their exposure.

So, interesting that when I let go of him as my husband, it lifts a lot of the judgement and makes it feel safer to play a little and even perhaps spend time with him.

I still have a chance to stay Gucci, I gave H little and can still pull back but I felt like a little banter was healthy...

This is what I was dancing to and could easily be sung from my H's own mouth-

the video sucks but the song is so great...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhW7FLo6peU
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Too Much Funny... - 09/02/09 05:50 AM
Quote:
And I was in my kitchen dancing and feeling light and thought what the hey, nothing to lose, I'll say yes when he asks this time. But, he didn't ask...LOL.


Uhhh, huh-huh-huh - yogurt's cool.

So is aliveandkicking.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Too Much Funny... - 09/02/09 07:01 AM
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
Quote:
And I was in my kitchen dancing and feeling light and thought what the hey, nothing to lose, I'll say yes when he asks this time. But, he didn't ask...LOL.


Uhhh, huh-huh-huh - yogurt's cool.

So is aliveandkicking.


actually watched that whole thing without being stoned...

thanks, I think. smirk
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Too Much Funny... - 09/02/09 02:54 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I decided tonight that seeing as I have pretty much accepted D and H is not my "better half" anymore, I can really lighten up and stop judging...

I don't get why accepting D is a driving force here? What's the right choice for you and does D happening or not happening really have anything to do with it?

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
To which he answered basically no problem and asked if I'd seen the movie yet (the one I ignored his invitation to twice) and he has seen it twice and wants to see it again because it is brilliant.

And I was in my kitchen dancing and feeling light and thought what the hey, nothing to lose, I'll say yes when he asks this time. But, he didn't ask...LOL.

Timing is everything in life. How do we get to a place where we're prepared and ready for whatever happens when it happens as opposed to trying to predict and prepare? It's too easy to miss, to fail and get disappointed with predict and prepare.

Love the music video.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Too Much Funny... - 09/02/09 03:53 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


AAK - LOL Whoa! He's hott!
Posted By: robx Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/02/09 05:40 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ok robx, what do you have a life or something?


LOL YES!
I do have a life, freakin' busy!!!
Work, kids, dealing with "the WIFE" who in the beginning of this separation didn't want to look at me, now can't stop being around me even while arguing as much as she can about anything & everything, it's close to stalking but not there yet. Last month getting 20-30 calls (no joke) per day was a little.... much, and that doesn't include text msg's either.

I'm a systems admin too, so when I'm on call there is way too much work to do and way too few of us to do it. Plus I like to have a bit of personal life, going out, hanging out, gym, shopping, making sure I'm the like the "best dad ever", 24 hours in one day just doesn't cut it, I need more time, I used to think the days went by fast, now it feels like the weeks go by fast. Busy, busy, busy - I can't remember the last time I watched TV LOL! Thank god for smartphones with decent keyboards that can browse the net & check mail, I can't see myself living without this handy device.

Long story Short... I am busy.
I will read (I promise) what I have missed after you have poured your guts out (scoop them back up when you get a chance, you don't want anyone slipping on them and falling and then suing you for the physical harm you caused them).

grin
Quote:
I don't get why accepting D is a driving force here? What's the right choice for you and does D happening or not happening really have anything to do with it?


My acceptance of D is my secret weapon. I was so terrified and it tempered everything I did and my time with my kids and family and friends.

Now, with that as one option, I am free to be in the moment. Be present, be myself, flourish, take the foggy glasses off and see things for what they are NOW, not the past, not some fantasy, not some prerequisite outcome that I many or not ever achieve. Recognizing your lack of control can take you to rock bottom. I went to that place, kicking and screaming and then, I faced it.

Life is better. I am not glib about divorce, I will never extoll the benefits of divorce. I simply know that I will and must thrive and enjoy my short life no matter what.

It is freedom RSF. And it is attractive. Trust me. My H checked me out from head to toe today and it isn't because he's never seen me look good before. It is because I am alive and vibrant and it intrigues him...

That on a guy is irresistibly hot. Man, I feel like if I was a guy I could work this sh*t so well.
Posted By: Coach Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/02/09 06:04 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
I don't get why accepting D is a driving force here? What's the right choice for you and does D happening or not happening really have anything to do with it?


My acceptance of D is my secret weapon. I was so terrified and it tempered everything I did and my time with my kids and family and friends.

Now, with that as one option, I am free to be in the moment. Be present, be myself, flourish, take the foggy glasses off and see things for what they are NOW, not the past, not some fantasy, not some prerequisite outcome that I many or not ever achieve. Recognizing your lack of control can take you to rock bottom. I went to that place, kicking and screaming and then, I faced it.

Life is better. I am not glib about divorce, I will never extoll the benefits of divorce. I simply know that I will and must thrive and enjoy my short life no matter what.

It is freedom RSF. And it is attractive. Trust me. My H checked me out from head to toe today and it isn't because he's never seen me look good before. It is because I am alive and vibrant and it intrigues him...

That on a guy is irresistibly hot. Man, I feel like if I was a guy I could work this sh*t so well.




No seriously guys I think someone kidnapped AAK and is posting posing as her. whistle

Keep handling it.

Cheers
Originally Posted By: Coach
No seriously guys I think someone kidnapped AAK and is posting posing as her. whistle

Keep handling it.


I vote for keeping the imposter ;-)
Quote:
No seriously guys I think someone kidnapped AAK and is posting posing as her.

Keep handling it.

Cheers


It was always me. I just had to go through what I had to go through to really be able to own it.

Lessons are learned through experience, not cerebral gymnastics. I have always talked a good game, been into self help, given great advice. Matters of the heart can challenge and make one question everything, do I know anything?

My life turned upside down and inside out. I had to re-adapt, pull my organs out and put them back in (that is truly what this has felt like). I still recognize a rib in the wrong place now and then. wink

I don't regret hitting the wall. I like where I'm at now.
Posted By: Dia Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/02/09 07:18 PM
AAK - FWIW - I felt like that when I finally kicked OM to the curb. It's a good place to be - so free, so happy, so *alive*.
Originally Posted By: robx
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ok robx, what do you have a life or something?


LOL YES!
I do have a life, freakin' busy!!!
Work, kids, dealing with "the WIFE" who in the beginning of this separation didn't want to look at me, now can't stop being around me even while arguing as much as she can about anything & everything, it's close to stalking but not there yet. Last month getting 20-30 calls (no joke) per day was a little.... much, and that doesn't include text msg's either.

I'm a systems admin too, so when I'm on call there is way too much work to do and way too few of us to do it. Plus I like to have a bit of personal life, going out, hanging out, gym, shopping, making sure I'm the like the "best dad ever", 24 hours in one day just doesn't cut it, I need more time, I used to think the days went by fast, now it feels like the weeks go by fast. Busy, busy, busy - I can't remember the last time I watched TV LOL! Thank god for smartphones with decent keyboards that can browse the net & check mail, I can't see myself living without this handy device.

Long story Short... I am busy.
I will read (I promise) what I have missed after you have poured your guts out (scoop them back up when you get a chance, you don't want anyone slipping on them and falling and then suing you for the physical harm you caused them).

grin



Thanks doll.

H has text stalked me since he left (it is finally tapering off). Problem has been getting him to treat me as a person of equal value and not some sitting duck who will spend time with him in the hopes that he will appreciate me (well actually not such a problem since I've stopped engaging and being available). I suppose it is more of a precondition to my being willing to date him.

I'm doing alright, just typing all that history again was a tad grueling...looking forward to your input which will come when the time is right, I'm sure.
Originally Posted By: Dia
AAK - FWIW - I felt like that when I finally kicked OM to the curb. It's a good place to be - so free, so happy, so *alive*.


Wish H was an OM...eventually, he probably will be.
Posted By: Coach Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/02/09 07:32 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
No seriously guys I think someone kidnapped AAK and is posting posing as her.

Keep handling it.

Cheers


It was always me. I just had to go through what I had to go through to really be able to own it.

Lessons are learned through experience, not cerebral gymnastics. I have always talked a good game, been into self help, given great advice. Matters of the heart can challenge and make one question everything, do I know anything?

My life turned upside down and inside out. I had to re-adapt, pull my organs out and put them back in (that is truly what this has felt like). I still recognize a rib in the wrong place now and then. wink

I don't regret hitting the wall. I like where I'm at now.


Feels good to find your voice again.

The Dark Night of the Soul:
Quote:
In the Christian tradition, one who has developed a strong prayer life and consistent devotion to God suddenly finds traditional prayer extremely difficult and unrewarding for an extended period of time during this "dark night." The individual may feel as though God has suddenly abandoned them or that his or her prayer life has collapsed. In the most pronounced cases, belief is lost in the very existence of God and/or validity of religion, rendering the individual an atheist, even if they continue with the outward expressions of faith.

Rather than resulting in devastation, however, the dark night is perceived by mystics and others to be a blessing in disguise, whereby the individual is stripped (in the dark night of the senses) of the spiritual ecstasy associated with acts of virtue. Although the individual may for a time seem to outwardly decline in their practices of virtue, they in reality become more virtuous, as they are being virtuous less for the spiritual rewards (ecstasies in the cases of the first night) obtained and more out of a true love for God. It is this purgatory, a purgation of the soul, that brings purity and union with God.

Entering this dark night of the soul is commonly referred to in Buddhism as "raising the Great Doubt".

Posted By: aliveandkicking Question for Gucci... - 09/03/09 04:28 PM
So, it seems that in my backing off, H is finally taking that more seriously. Last week, 4 invitations from him, this week zero. As a matter of fact, I almost caved in assuming he was going to invite me again, but he didn't, was actually quite funny.

Yesterday, he checked me out from head to toe and I could see the "what the heck is up with her expression."

Let's just say there is an iota of hope for this M, with my lease ending and major decisions having to made, do you think it is that I get my own place, we make our sep. agreement (possibly file for D depending on which makes more logistical sense), he has his own life and I have mine and somehow it goes full circle and after he really experiences his rock star fantasy (with all the trimmings, both negative and positive) then, and only then, perhaps we reunite?

On the upside, I am ready to move on, I am dating, I am looking for my own place, I am ready to file.

There is still a tiny part of me that looks at the kids and looks at our finances and our 14 years together and thinks, "are we really going to f*cking do this?" I mean this is going to cause some serious damage. So, I am aware that I've got that tiny part that somehow magically wants to save the ship before it sinks...In a way though, I think it is like in our marriage where I was always trying to keep him from hitting rock bottom because I didn't want to go down with him. But, if we separate completely and legally, his plummet is his problem...only caveat is that I am financially dependent and it'll take time to be self sufficient.

Anyway, I think I've answered my own question. We are beginning to settle into a new paradigm. He has gone from constantly texting and being in my business to backing off. It is different than most sitches in that way, so it seems so counterintuitive, kind of pushing him out of the nest, "you say you want to go, then f*cking go," right?

This is an odd space but potentially a middle phase for us or perhaps the end.

He seems very MLC now, losing weight (urgently because he is going to work with rock star again), honing a new hipster look, studying about his psychic abilities, out every single night, hundreds of friends on FB, pictures of him with models (though that has toned down for now)...

Just looking for a sort of pick me up, I guess. Late nights and early mornings are tough when I get that "this can't really be happening feeling" and missing my kids etc. but overall doing awesome, exercising, going out...
Posted By: robx Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/03/09 05:15 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

Yes, love is a choice. I do love him. I don't like him right now. I am not "in love" with him. Fortunately.

He left nine months ago (went to sleep at friends' houses and travelled a bunch until finally getting his own place (well,paid for by rich friend) about 2 months ago), tore into me as to how it was my fault. I took the hit. He left town, I lost a bunch of weight, started working out and though I was a frickin disaster inside, I looked good and appeared to be managing well. When he came back and saw me, he flipped out and was angry (oh now you x,y and z) which I now understand is because he had already crossed some threshold (OW perhaps).

Never since he left has he really left me alone. I have stayed out of his business. I have validated, apologized, analyzed, discussed, made myself vulnerable, went on dates with him, had sex with him. It is all documented somewhere on here but it was really awful because no matter what, he felt that his "destiny" was to leave etc. Any positive interaction was deemed negative after the fact because it didn't fit with his decision to leave, so my efforts were futile.

What he wanted was to feel like a "man" to be a big shot in the entertainment biz, to have a girlfriend who could go out with him every night (he doesn't remember telling me this)...he wants to be around important people with fame and money (which he has succeeded in doing)...but, we are broke and in debt.

In our M, I was neurotic, demeaning, critical, withheld sex (not intentionally, I had lost attraction and it was very frustrating and demoralizing for me as well) although, I still spiced it up on occasion and made efforts. Often I was visibly bored and unenthusiastic about sex. I felt objectified and used because our M was cr*p and the s*x became one of the only area he put any effort into.

He has body issues. I fell in love with him with extra weight on him but his self-loathing and lack of connection to his body really affected our sex life and his confidence. I felt I was f*cking a boy not a man.



Well I'm starting to go through the history you graciously re-posted (thank you).

Couple things stand out and I'm just going to go back & forth a bit to cover those things that stand out the most.

A recurring theme jumps out based on your own descriptions, your husband wanting to feel like a man, a big man. He tends to use you as a crutch, his reason for not succeeding or feeling like a man. Some of it may be warranted but I think alot of it is him not taking responsibility for his own life and there isn't much you can do about that.

You admitted (and kudos to you for admitting the things you've done, I hope you don't take the blame for everything or make up faults on your part to justify his behavior because that's not necessary of you or anyone else for that matter) being neurotic, demeaning, critical, withholding sex and for a man that is having trouble communicating with his wife, that is a killer. I can't speak for him but everytime I looked at my wife, it was like a reminder how much I was the mosted hated person in the world to her but she could be fine & normal to everyone else so everytime I looked at her it reminded me of how much I had "failed" her, I now don't do this to myself anymore, personal happiness is just that, personal happiness, you can't blame someone else for you not being happy, that's alot of pressure and in the end it's just not fair. Don't blame yourself for him being unhappy or immature.

You mentioned being visibly bored and unenthusiastic about sex, that's a kiler for men too when alot of men view that connection as love with their wives, without it, the resentment grows, we start questioning why we're not good enough, what's wrong with us,etc.

Again this isn't all on you, you both did things to kill the attraction between the 2 of you, it isn't just all him and it isn't just all you either.

I read that part about "...I felt I was f*cking a boy not a man." and all I can say .... OUCH! If he ever felt that coming from you, I'm sure that killed his self-esteem and increased his anger & resentment of you. It's that recurring theme of wanting to be a big & powerful man and feeling like a little boy around you and wanting to escape his married life to pursue what he perceived couldn't be attained with his life with you.

The thing about feeling like a man vs. a boy,
I remember feeling like a boy, ineffectual, powerless, never having any control, etc. That's a personal state, as much as my wife contributed to that feeling (and believe me she did), in the end, I got to feeling the way I do currently by doing the work that was necessary and to stop using crutches & excuses in my life. Excuses don't explain, and explanations don't excuse - an old fart taught me that and it's stuck with me for the last 2 years. In a nutshell you are where you are today because you got there yourself and you'll get where you really want to go & be in life by getting there yourself because you own your life, you control your life (you don't control anyone else, trust me) and you are responsible for your own life. Once I finally understood this (really understood it), that's when things started to change.

I'm not living a perfect life now, far from it but it sure is way more enjoyable and there is a great satisfaction knowing that how I currently live my life is largely by my design and no one elses. I'm happy, I have a spring in my step (and it ain't because I use irish spring in the shower, I use axe body wash LOL!), I laugh alot, have a ton of fun and I communicate that in my body language - my friends just smile when they're around me, they're biggest complaint about me now is that they don't see me enough (I'm busy, life is very fast paced) and that's a huge compliment about how I'm living now. The phone used to be quiet, now it's off the !@#$% hook, it's silly sometimes.

I'm going to comment on the rest of your posts, I'll take them apart piece by piece and reply accordingly.

AAK if I have to say anything above & beyond these replies, it's that you seem to have a great PMA, it translates in the way you talk and that's awesome because that means you are heading towards great things in life, with or without your husband. If he doesn't value you or the relationship he had with you, it is his loss, especially when you've taken responsibility for the things you've done (not what he's done, that's on him).
You have a very good sense of the dynamic. I am well aware of how damaging the sexual issues were. I do take responsibility for my part. Early on when he left, I took on too much because I was the one seeing the aftermath, my kids pain, cognizant of the long lasting repercussions and I felt that for a woman who values marriage and family as much as I do (and certainly more than him), I should have found a way to make it work. I understand clearly now that he has/had his own path and often provoked and contributed to getting a certain result to give him the ammunition to leave. Make sense? I could feel it happening with the blame and the judgement coming from him. Towards the end he was literally baiting me and starting fights to get a rise...he wanted to leave and follow his "destiny"...

Anyway, I absolutely owned up, validated and apologized for my part. I don't know if you read here about his recent admission of having a myriad of issues but went on to attribute it to his astrological sign and he has accepted himself the way he is...it was quite a stunning piece work.

If a boy wants to feel like a man, I guess he has to be a man...sadly my H's dad left his mom and I think part of his perception of being a man is leaving. He sees it as standing up for himself but I see being a man as standing up in the marriage. I think it would be hot as a hell to be with him if he was the man of the house...

As for his success or lack there-of, he has had great successes and losses with me. I was an absolute support and partner in his career advancement. After he left, he told me that everything was finally happening for him. It was so hurtful. A) I've been there every step leading up to that point. B) Since then, his income has actually plummeted.

He clearly has to learn his own lessons.

Thanks for being here.
Met with a writer friend last night, feeling very productive. We're developing a project together. He has a GF so it was fun, safe and informative (guy perspective)...

then went to a movie with H whistle

it was odd, so detached. I felt really neutral and relaxed but I think it is sort of like hammering nails in the coffin to be together in that space...I mean, so dispassionate.

I think the tiny part of me that thought maybe he'd sweep in and save us from going all the way (me moving into a new, smaller place with kids and out of our home, filing legal docs etc.), is now pretty much dissolved. But, who knows?

This is a very odd, mature but unromantic place to be. Ahhh, growing up is hard to do.
Keep growing up. But leave room for a little hope too. Have a great weekend smile
Posted By: robx Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 07:24 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Met with a writer friend last night, feeling very productive. We're developing a project together. He has a GF so it was fun, safe and informative (guy perspective)...

then went to a movie with H whistle


it was odd, so detached. I felt really neutral and relaxed but I think it is sort of like hammering nails in the coffin to be together in that space...I mean, so dispassionate.

I think the tiny part of me that thought maybe he'd sweep in and save us from going all the way (me moving into a new, smaller place with kids and out of our home, filing legal docs etc.), is now pretty much dissolved. But, who knows?

This is a very odd, mature but unromantic place to be. Ahhh, growing up is hard to do.




And here I thought you were just looking for the right time & place to dig a hole and bury him in the desert somewhere but you needed a whole bunch of lyme for the job ;-)

I think going out wasn't a bad thing, a movie was probably safe for the 2 of you, you didn't have to talk much, just sit in each other's company, hopefully it wasn't that painful.

I liked hearing that part about you going to the movie with your "H"

i'm sure it was odd & uncomfortable, you're both "guarded" against each other, ready to defend yourselves at a moment's notice from the other person's possible attack so it feels very strange having to sit beside each other and be... quiet.

And guess what... you survived to tell us about it.

It definitely wasn't a bad thing.

If you're expecting sparks, romance and explosions to happen... don't. That's alot of pressure on you, him and right now you both should have zero expectations, that way anything above the zero baseline is a pleasant unexpectant surprise.

No pressure is good.

What movie did you watch?
Posted By: robx Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 07:27 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
You have a very good sense of the dynamic. I am well aware of how damaging the sexual issues were. I do take responsibility for my part. Early on when he left, I took on too much because I was the one seeing the aftermath, my kids pain, cognizant of the long lasting repercussions and I felt that for a woman who values marriage and family as much as I do (and certainly more than him), I should have found a way to make it work. I understand clearly now that he has/had his own path and often provoked and contributed to getting a certain result to give him the ammunition to leave. Make sense? I could feel it happening with the blame and the judgement coming from him. Towards the end he was literally baiting me and starting fights to get a rise...he wanted to leave and follow his "destiny"...

Anyway, I absolutely owned up, validated and apologized for my part. I don't know if you read here about his recent admission of having a myriad of issues but went on to attribute it to his astrological sign and he has accepted himself the way he is...it was quite a stunning piece work.

If a boy wants to feel like a man, I guess he has to be a man...sadly my H's dad left his mom and I think part of his perception of being a man is leaving. He sees it as standing up for himself but I see being a man as standing up in the marriage. I think it would be hot as a hell to be with him if he was the man of the house...

As for his success or lack there-of, he has had great successes and losses with me. I was an absolute support and partner in his career advancement. After he left, he told me that everything was finally happening for him. It was so hurtful. A) I've been there every step leading up to that point. B) Since then, his income has actually plummeted.

He clearly has to learn his own lessons.

Thanks for being here.


Yes has to want to be a man, and he has to realize that him being a man has nothing to do with what you've done to him or what you haven't done for him, it's all on him, that's his responsibility, he can either own it or he can let it go and the consequences he suffers in his life due to this decision are his own, he won't be able to blame you or anyone else. There should be some comfort in that for you, I'm sure you feel he's been using you as a crutch, his reason for why life treated him so poorly.
Posted By: robx Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 07:31 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

My acceptance of D is my secret weapon. I was so terrified and it tempered everything I did and my time with my kids and family and friends.

Now, with that as one option, I am free to be in the moment. Be present, be myself, flourish, take the foggy glasses off and see things for what they are NOW, not the past, not some fantasy, not some prerequisite outcome that I many or not ever achieve. Recognizing your lack of control can take you to rock bottom. I went to that place, kicking and screaming and then, I faced it.

Life is better. I am not glib about divorce, I will never extoll the benefits of divorce. I simply know that I will and must thrive and enjoy my short life no matter what.

It is freedom RSF. And it is attractive. Trust me. My H checked me out from head to toe today and it isn't because he's never seen me look good before. It is because I am alive and vibrant and it intrigues him...

That on a guy is irresistibly hot. Man, I feel like if I was a guy I could work this sh*t so well.


Thank you, at least someone around here finally said it!
Posted By: robx Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 07:38 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
No seriously guys I think someone kidnapped AAK and is posting posing as her.

Keep handling it.

Cheers


It was always me. I just had to go through what I had to go through to really be able to own it.

Lessons are learned through experience, not cerebral gymnastics. I have always talked a good game, been into self help, given great advice. Matters of the heart can challenge and make one question everything, do I know anything?

My life turned upside down and inside out. I had to re-adapt, pull my organs out and put them back in (that is truly what this has felt like). I still recognize a rib in the wrong place now and then. wink

I don't regret hitting the wall. I like where I'm at now.


Has anyone told you how great you are lately?

Seriously, I have said the same things to myself in a million different ways but never this way and yet it's exactly how we feel and that means that we are successful and will continue to be successful and our success isn't measured by the results of our marriage because in the end we can't control our spouses and their respective actions but we can control ourselves and our decisions on how we live life.

You're alright ;-)
Quote:
hopefully it wasn't that painful.


Oddly, I felt closer to indifference. Objectively it was sad, like as if it was watching some other couple and knowing what is at stake and what was lost.

But overall, it was fine, just felt kind of pointless.

I emailed him this morning to thank him for the movie and arrange for kid drop off.

He said "you're welcome. sorry we didn't have much time to talk but that's cool." He is also probably going out of town this weekend to work with rock star (you know that racket) for 2 weeks so there wont be any follow up for us. And we have to make an agreement so I can find a new place to live cuz our lease is ending.

Weird times.

Oh, Inglorious Basterds. Great.
Posted By: tristan Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 07:48 PM
Originally Posted By: robx
yet it's exactly how we feel and that means that we are successful


God I hope to get there. Right now I am still tripping over my intestines.
Posted By: robx Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 08:00 PM
Originally Posted By: tristan
Originally Posted By: robx
yet it's exactly how we feel and that means that we are successful


God I hope to get there. Right now I am still tripping over my intestines.


You will get there, I promise!
Now put those intestines back where they're supposed to be, this isn't "Braveheart" and you're not Mel Gibson ;-)
Posted By: Kalni Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 08:08 PM
The minute I accepted my divorce 14 months ago and was FINE with it, the dynamics in my R with stbx changed. I had a clear picture of what had happened, was aware of my ...surroundings and was living a good life. My kids -as always the barometer of my state- were having a great summer. When I asked for the divorce, my stbxh's "eyes" returned. Funny how that works over and over again...
Alas, we want more than their "eyes" don't we?

Sigh... wink
Posted By: Kalni Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/04/09 08:17 PM
I said "eyes" because his look, his eyes were the first thing to "go" when he started his affair... But yes, I want a lot more than the eyes.
H has the kids all weekend and then wants us to drive him to the airport. Part of me feels, "no, sorry, I'm not that person anymore"...and part of me knows the kids will enjoy sending him off (they've expressed wanting to take him though I think it would not be a big deal to say goodbye and hour sooner)...

It is pretty darned inconvenient to drive him.

Thoughts?
Thinking it is probably better for me to decline and let him figure it out...

Thoughts?

It is not so big of a deal but it feels like it is. smirk
Well, if your airport is anything like my airport post 9/11, there's precious little "sending off" to be done. It's not like you can hang out at the gate until they get on the plane. More a matter of being together in the car, yes?

So .... does that trump serious inconvenience for you?

(Related thought .. I just realized, in planning for a vacation, that aside from my parents, I don't feel comfortable asking anyone who lives close to me to drop us off at the train station. This tells me I need to make some new friends locally, since all our other close friends have moved away. This could be a similar wake-up call for h.; because of his choices, you are no longer a viable taxi service. Something to think about.)
Ya, I told him to find another way. My undetached self cares that he will not see it as a natural consequence but as me messing with him. My detached, healthy self knows I need to do what works for me and his ridiculous expectations are not my problem.
Posted By: tristan Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/05/09 04:38 PM
Do you feel like spending time with him or not? If not, then I would say no. If you do, then are you asking because you would like to see how hard he will persue? If so, then I would say no. If you would like to test that little window of hope that you keep talking about, then maybe. But I would then defer to the experts.
I do not want to be his taxi driver. I did the whole "wifey" thing for months and it worked very nicely for him...

He said he is bummed because S6 told him we would take him (so, I should defer to my 6 year old)...he said he'll have to take a cab.

I said no because I don't feel like doing it (I didn't tell him that was why). For better or worse.


Posted By: Dia Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/05/09 05:21 PM
AAK - if you didn't want to, if it was an inconvenience, I think you did the right thing, IMHO.

So he has to take a cab. Boo f-ing hoo. Big boy pants - get a pair.
Well, last time (a few months ago), I had sex with him and drove him to the airport figuring I'd send him off with something to think about. When I saw the photos of him on fb with models and living it up, I felt like quite the sucker.

Call me jaded.

If something significant has changed, he'll have to make that a lot clearer.
Posted By: Sara Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/05/09 06:05 PM
That sounds like a good reason to not do it again. If he really wants to know why you won't take him to the airport, you should tell him.
Posted By: Coach Re: robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/06/09 01:12 AM
Do not take him to the airport. Men who leave their wife and family do not merit this.

No-brainer.
So, I stuck with no on the ride to the airport.

But, H asked if I wanted to have lunch with him and the kids and I did it...cuz I felt like it. Was relaxed and pleasant. A teeny tiny bit flirty but not much. So odd to spend time like that.

Tonight while I was out with a friend H texted me that a friend/client of his was gathering with some people for drinks (b-day) and I should come if I could. Well, I really wanted to but fortunately, my friend would not entertain it. The birthday friend is someone I actually really miss and like but just too weird a vibe to bring my friend into or subject myself to so..."I can't make it. But tell X Happy Birthday."

This reminds me of SP and his reference to Godfather 3..."Just when I'm out, they pull me back in..."

H will leave for 2 weeks tomorrow...the logistical clock in my sitch is ticking. I am making plans. We will meet when he gets back and by then, I will have a preliminary agreement ready and I may inform him that I am filing...not sure.

Again, those feelings come up regarding my lack of willingness to go out with him when we were together...he wants that so bad...I think IF he is making any move toward any kind of rekindling, he wants to feel like we can have that...meeting late at night somewhere, hanging out, being new to each other, spontaneous. I wont drive him to the airport but can I be a woman who dates him? Seems so risky. Perhaps no riskier than dating anyone else. However, I do have a friend who has been dating her ex for six years so there's that.

I'm still surprised by how relaxed I feel with all of this. It used to torment me. Now, I see it in pretty practical terms...still, questions loom. I guess I'll see him as a prospect. Shockingly, I find other men far more attractive than him. Shame, it seems inevitable that the LBS becomes the WAS...self preservation I guess. But odd none the less.

I am ready for anything but this doesn't feel done.
And he just asked me to bring him something tomorrow from the house. I said ok.

He said, "Thanks you're a doll."

I'd like to say, "Tell me a f*cking 'bout it." But, I wont. grin

Learning a lot here...
Quote:
Has anyone told you how great you are lately?


I was going to answer "no" when I read this, but truth is, yes.

Ok, so it isn't whilst lying in bed getting my feet rubbed and fed grapes but, here and there I'm getting positive feedback.

I actually recognized how vulnerable and insecure I still feel when I read that...

BTW- you're pretty great yourself. I feel that you have really found a way to be more revealing and relate more and thus more able to be received...obviously, you are a smart cookie and have good intentions.
Posted By: robx Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/06/09 10:18 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
Has anyone told you how great you are lately?


I was going to answer "no" when I read this, but truth is, yes.

Ok, so it isn't whilst lying in bed getting my feet rubbed and fed grapes but, here and there I'm getting positive feedback.

I actually recognized how vulnerable and insecure I still feel when I read that...

BTW- you're pretty great yourself. I feel that you have really found a way to be more revealing and relate more and thus more able to be received...obviously, you are a smart cookie and have good intentions.


Maybe you should figure out how to mention this to him
"...Ok, so it isn't whilst lying in bed getting my feet rubbed and fed grapes but, here and there I'm getting positive feedback. "

He might entertain doing this at some point ;-)

At any rate, allow your positive mental attitude to be part of the tool you use to gauge your internal compass on where you're going in your life. You sound like you're doing good and that is a good thing!
Oh crapola.

I went to pick up the kids from H. He told me he had found another ride to the airport...fine.

He gave me a pre-birthday present (a beautiful sun dress) and a bracelet he had picked out a couple of weeks ago...

This feels so odd because he makes such a production out of doing it with the kids and they just think he loves me and is so nice to me...

I don't really understand if these are gifts of affection or just consolation gifts.

When I was trying to get out the door (which he was sort of slowing down), his friend called up. It is a female friend (definitely nothing romantic) but she is someone I always really liked and I'd call her for recipes when planning parties for H, that kind of thing.

I was like a deer in headlights. I really did not want to see her. She is the one person who for months I have wondered what the hell does she make of this? She always told him in the past when he was being a jerk...what the heck has he told her? I couldn't very well run out and miss her and I was totally unable to shake off the emotion that was stirring. I did my best. I was very friendly but so uncomfortable. And the kids were saying goodbye to their dad and there was too much emotional stuff at once. I just felt sooo self-conscious and totally unwilling to be jovial and glib.

So, after I left I felt so heavy and I even cried and my kids wanted to understand and I found a way to explain honestly but not too much information.

I texted H that I have nothing but affection for X but that it was hard to see her on the spot and it was a little awkward and sad. But all good. [that made no sense]...

mojo evaporation right there.

Then, I thanked him for the presents and he said you're welcome...

And now he goes to live it up with rock star for a couple of weeks.


Robx- what do you make of this? I mean, mind reading is no good and thank God, I am still ok with moving toward D, but I wonder as a guy if you relate to him at all.

Anyhoo, as I explained to my kids, being sad and crying is fine. You feel at move on. And so, that's what I'm doing. Hitting the road with kids in a couple of days for a birthday getaway. wink
H just called from the airport. Spoke to the kids and then they handed the phone to me. I was back to my happy relaxed self (genuine, not put on).

He wanted to thank me for taking such good care of the kids. We chatted a little and I was a bit witty and then told him that I had to get them to bed. He asked if I liked the dress and I said yes, that he always had the knack for finding things that I liked...and that isn't easy. Chatted a little more and then I said I really need to get them to bed.

He said that he really wanted me to know that I'm appreciated and he didn't want to not get me anything. I thanked him again and wished him a good flight.

I really like myself like this. I don't know if it is DBing or being too available or going to easy on him. I just like being me, humorous and more easy-going. I still want to fry his nuts on occasion and I fantasize about moving away and never having to deal with him again...but, here I am, coping. And, I'm not doing anything I don't want to do...

I interpret his comment about appreciating me to be his way of saying it but clarifying that it isn't that other romantic kind of appreciating. Doesn't matter...I know I'm mind reading but I know him pretty well. It scares him how cool I've been and how different the dynamic is. Even that we had that weird experience earlier and that I have moved on...it used to be a frickin 5 hour conversation when my feelings were hurt. I like myself like this much more. Him, he is confused and about to go into fantasy land...so, I bank on nothing.
ok, one more lesson...for months and months I wanted to call H's friend (the one from today) and plead my case. I did not and now, 9 months later, she sent me an email about how much she misses me and how nice it was to see me and she was sorry it was so awkward. I can't tell you how good that felt.

So, eventually, it all comes out in the wash I suppose.
Posted By: Sara Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/07/09 04:56 AM
Sounds like you are finding a new equilibrium. That is excellent. I hope you can relax while he is away.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I interpret his comment about appreciating me to be his way of saying it but clarifying that it isn't that other romantic kind of appreciating. Doesn't matter...I know I'm mind reading but I know him pretty well. It scares him how cool I've been and how different the dynamic is. Even that we had that weird experience earlier and that I have moved on...it used to be a frickin 5 hour conversation when my feelings were hurt. I like myself like this much more. Him, he is confused and about to go into fantasy land...so, I bank on nothing.

I like the appreciation comment. That feels very real and meaningful. It's awesome to see you relaxed and in control in your own way. In the recent past I have thought about send W flowers and the most meaningful thing I could think of for the card was: "you are loved and appreciated". I didn't of course and not sending the was the right thing to do.

How will you spend the next two weeks?
Going away for a week with the kids. Then they go back to school and I'll have some me time.

I did something today that was totally inspiring (don't want to extrapolate) but, feeling good.

Got a lot on my mind but have to run and will write more later.
I could really use your persep0cive if you get a minute.

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1820958&page=33
I just checked it out. I will be on the road but checking in...

This is a process...don't forget it. Whatever your spiritual practice is go heavy on it.

When you feel aligned and good about yourself, the individual decisions and challenges are much more manageable and you can act more intuitively and without so much second guessing. When you are off (and you know when you are), you are bound to screw up or think you did. Make sense?

Talking to myself too. We can only get in the best mental and spiritual space possible and act from there. Wont always be perfect but it is better.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I just checked it out. I will be on the road but checking in...

This is a process...don't forget it. Whatever your spiritual practice is go heavy on it.

When you feel aligned and good about yourself, the individual decisions and challenges are much more manageable and you can act more intuitively and without so much second guessing. When you are off (and you know when you are), you are bound to screw up or think you did. Make sense?

Talking to myself too. We can only get in the best mental and spiritual space possible and act from there. Wont always be perfect but it is better.

Thanks smile
Wow. Away with the kids having a really nice time. Today's my bday and I woke up kind of down...I guess it makes sense but I like to think I'm over it.

H called to say happy birthday, and texted and emailed and posted on my fb page.

Anyway, gonna go exploring with the kids and enjoy my day!
Posted By: antlers Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/10/09 03:55 PM
Happy Birthday, AAK!
Happy, happy birthday!
Happy birthday! Funny, today's my H's birthday -

Go out have fun. Celebrate yourself!!!!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Wow. Away with the kids having a really nice time. Today's my bday and I woke up kind of down...I guess it makes sense but I like to think I'm over it.

H called to say happy birthday, and texted and emailed and posted on my fb page.

Anyway, gonna go exploring with the kids and enjoy my day!

Yay!!!!!

Happy B-Day A&K....have an awesome day smile
Posted By: tristan Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/10/09 07:19 PM
Feliz Cumpleannos!
Thanks! Just checking in and nice to see the well wishes.

I certainly have learned and gained more than I could ever have anticipated coming on here!
Posted By: Coach Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/10/09 08:49 PM
Happy Birthday. You have grown quite a bit lately.

Cheers

ps this is the site for the band that we saw on my b-day

polkayoureyeout.com
Well, I would like to say that this all gets easier, and it does, but in some ways it is harder...perhaps it is the disappointment that H is who is and is soooo in it with rock star and just so distracted from any real comprehension of what he is missing.

As I prepare to embark on our new life, school starts, huge decisions to make, H seems blissfully immersed in chasing around rock-star (and for mere pitons compared to what he used to make). He doesn't care. His travel is covered, he stays in nice places, fancy dinners with uber-important people...and why I am I talking about him?????

Because while away on my trip, I had many pangs of sadness, awareness that this little threesome (me and my kids) are my family and of course I had a blast and so did they but I wanted someone to share the moments with, for better or worse, I just did. And the kids missed their dad.

Looking at it realistically, I have done so much of this on my own for quite a while so the feeling was familiar. However, there was a time and were times we were so together and really loved when we went on vacations...I miss that.

So, perhaps I can look at H as if he is sick, he is now fully immersed in the fake and pseudo-fabulous world of rock-stars and special people.

I don't completely understand why he contacts me so much or in the way he does, maybe just keep the connection...I don't know. But, damn I'm still disappointed in him. The public display of his experience on FB is humorous and humiliating (him dressing up in rock star clothes and women posting suggestive remarks)...

On a better note, my kids are so awesome and we had a wonderful time.
Posted By: robx Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/14/09 03:43 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, I would like to say that this all gets easier, and it does, but in some ways it is harder...perhaps it is the disappointment that H is who is and is soooo in it with rock star and just so distracted from any real comprehension of what he is missing.

As I prepare to embark on our new life, school starts, huge decisions to make, H seems blissfully immersed in chasing around rock-star (and for mere pitons compared to what he used to make). He doesn't care. His travel is covered, he stays in nice places, fancy dinners with uber-important people...and why I am I talking about him?????

Because while away on my trip, I had many pangs of sadness, awareness that this little threesome (me and my kids) are my family and of course I had a blast and so did they but I wanted someone to share the moments with, for better or worse, I just did. And the kids missed their dad.

Looking at it realistically, I have done so much of this on my own for quite a while so the feeling was familiar. However, there was a time and were times we were so together and really loved when we went on vacations...I miss that.

So, perhaps I can look at H as if he is sick, he is now fully immersed in the fake and pseudo-fabulous world of rock-stars and special people.

I don't completely understand why he contacts me so much or in the way he does, maybe just keep the connection...I don't know. But, damn I'm still disappointed in him. The public display of his experience on FB is humorous and humiliating (him dressing up in rock star clothes and women posting suggestive remarks)...

On a better note, my kids are so awesome and we had a wonderful time.


We are all complete as individuals yet something inside of us wants us to share our daily experiences with someone else even if that person sometimes is a major source of anxiety, problems, etc.

I think you can look at it that your husband is immersed in a fantasy world right now, sometimes adults want to be kids again, we want to reclaim our youth by living vicariously through others, I don't know if it can be properly explained, I know I look at my kids and wish I was a kid again: being young now a days looks so fun but there are things I wouldn't trade: my new found individuality, the control I exercise in my own life, the positive direction it's going in - there is alot of value in these things.

Him maintaining contact maybe is a way for him to tag you, just to keep you where you are, his safe second backup option just in case the rock star life doesn't work out and if that's the case, you know you have control over that as well. Go dark, no contact, stop replying to msg's, emails, texts, etc.

Either way I hope you had a great birthday, if he missed it, it was his loss, trust me ;-)
Yes, I had a great birthday and a fabulous trip. I have these little mini-battles when I wake up sad, "damn, I'm supposed to be over this by now" and then I accept the feelings and move on.

He did call about 4 times, texted, emailed and posted on my FB page on my birthday but then when we finally spoke (sooner or later I have to let the kids talk to him)...his tone was so distant...

I feel resentful that he is so insulated from the consequences of his actions, that he is so like a kid in that as long as he is stimulated, he is relatively ok. In the mean time, I am navigating my life with the kids and just trying to let the train wreck happen in my peripheral vision. I am shocked that a) this is lasting so long without his bubble bursting and b) our mutual friends aren't telling him that he is acting like a douche-bag, especially posting it all over FB (granted I don't know that they aren't telling him but he is shameless).

Anyway, I have a boatload of things to deal with this week so I better focus.
What you described vis-a-vis your lingering desire for connectedness to Monsoor and Le Shmedlap's obsessive-compulsive attraction to the reflected light of celebutards -- Hey! Monsoor La Teigne! Drawn like a moth to the flame of celebrity -- sounds an awful lot like classic codependency. He's an addict, a fame-junkie. And you're sort of in the Melody Beattie position -- married to a junkie -- though not a junkie yourself (and thank the gods for that!).
Ouch, f*ck, sh*t, aargh. I just spoke to H who comes back from Euro-rock star trip this weekend for our son's birthday. So, this Sunday will be the first time S will wake up on his birthday without me. H offered to let me have the kids that night cuz he "felt bad" (finally!!!) I said that they really miss him and will want to be with him and that I don't want our S6 having to choose. I said that this "comes with the territory and it sucks but I want to do what makes sense for S6." I could tell H felt like sh*t and that is just fine.

He is so excited about the relationship he is cultivating with rock star...I just wanna puke. And no I am not picking him up at the airport...he was really just awed by that...whatever, he can have one of his groupies do it.
Quote:
And you're sort of in the Melody Beattie position -- married to a junkie -- though not a junkie yourself (and thank the gods for that!).


I think the junkie has more fun, just sayin'.

Let's not forget, regarding this whole "lingering desire for connectedness" thing, there are two little peeps in the middle of this or I would be long and very completely gone.
No, I'm not forgetting that. But if you're anything like me -- yes, even Smiley's Person Himself -- there's some rueful regretful wishful "if only" that's independent of the concern for the wee ones.

And I dunno about the junkie. You know, you listen to these old junkies talk and, with the possible exceptions of Hunter S. Thompson and William S. Burroughs, there wasn't much "fun." Think about the Dark Side -- when, o when, will Rock Star contact me again? Why hasn't s/he called? In a sense Monsoor is a like teenage girl -- his entire world is defined by the phone and the latest issue of Tiger Beat.

I always think about that funny scene in "Get Shorty," when Danny Devito shows up at The Ivy, orders the enormous omelette or something that's not even on the menu, and then splits before the food even arrives -- from the POV (now that I'm all Hollywood 'n' sh*t I can use that abbreviation) of someone desperately hanging-on, that can't be an easy way to live.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
As I prepare to embark on our new life, school starts, huge decisions to make, H seems blissfully immersed in chasing around rock-star (and for mere pitons compared to what he used to make). He doesn't care. His travel is covered, he stays in nice places, fancy dinners with uber-important people...and why I am I talking about him?????

Because while away on my trip, I had many pangs of sadness, awareness that this little threesome (me and my kids) are my family and of course I had a blast and so did they but I wanted someone to share the moments with, for better or worse, I just did. And the kids missed their dad.

Looking at it realistically, I have done so much of this on my own for quite a while so the feeling was familiar. However, there was a time and were times we were so together and really loved when we went on vacations...I miss that.

I've been wanting to ask this for a while. Who has changed, evolved, etc. over the last many months as this has unfolded? You? Him? Both? How?
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I think the junkie has more fun, just sayin'.

In the short-term maybe.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
[...] there are two little peeps in the middle of this or I would be long and very completely gone.

Sometimes I wonder!? ....no harsh intended smile
Quote:
I've been wanting to ask this for a while. Who has changed, evolved, etc. over the last many months as this has unfolded? You? Him? Both? How?


Over the last months...I have lightened up, gotten out of his sh*t (don't ask, don't grill, don't share my feelings w/him for the most part), lightened up (not everything has to be organic), lost a bunch of weight and exercise, go out twice a week or more (barely got out before). I have a better sense of humor, am on my own and am much more creative.

H goes out almost every night (started pre-bomb), brags a lot (old behavior just amped up), seems to operate completely based on impulse (eg. he feels like calling so he does but there is no rationale), he has new friends that he considers family and he is very well taken care of...

On the positive side for H, when he is in town, he commits to see the kids at least twice a week and is reliable...for years I had asked him to cover me once a week so I could get out and take a class or something but he couldn't cuz super important somethings would come up...now he is doing it. Bittersweet.
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I think the junkie has more fun, just sayin'.

In the short-term maybe.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
[...] there are two little peeps in the middle of this or I would be long and very completely gone.

Sometimes I wonder!? ....no harsh intended smile


My ego alone would compel me to expel him from my life. I'm not saying it would be easy, I might even move away...but it would have to happen. I am this close now even with the kids. I deserve better than this and I know it.
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
No, I'm not forgetting that. But if you're anything like me -- yes, even Smiley's Person Himself -- there's some rueful regretful wishful "if only" that's independent of the concern for the wee ones.

And I dunno about the junkie. You know, you listen to these old junkies talk and, with the possible exceptions of Hunter S. Thompson and William S. Burroughs, there wasn't much "fun." Think about the Dark Side -- when, o when, will Rock Star contact me again? Why hasn't s/he called? In a sense Monsoor is a like teenage girl -- his entire world is defined by the phone and the latest issue of Tiger Beat.

I always think about that funny scene in "Get Shorty," when Danny Devito shows up at The Ivy, orders the enormous omelette or something that's not even on the menu, and then splits before the food even arrives -- from the POV (now that I'm all Hollywood 'n' sh*t I can use that abbreviation) of someone desperately hanging-on, that can't be an easy way to live.


Yes, yes and yes. The first bold- Yes, we have being human and bombed upon for starters. Regrets...that is evolving into understanding. As life becomes more fulfilling, regrets are revealed to be what they are, a big fat waste of time and predicated on lies and distortions. It can only be what it was because that's what it was...no I'm not tripping.

Which leads to- yes, I have a dear friend who was a junkie...not fun. But, what I observe is that H's distractibility sure seems like an asset at times. I am not saying he is fulfilled or happy...no one would be as overt and self-obsessed as he is if they were doing just great. But, I will handle the tough stuff, and IF he ever has an epiphany as to what he has done here, he will say his mea culpa and he will be forgiven because that is who I am and that is who I assume my children will be...you see this all the time...heartwarming late in the game daddy and grown children reconnecting and it is glorious...barf. But, for my kids, I would want that for them...to not live with hostility and resentment, I want it for myself too.
I could have written the last paragraph, including the barf part. I'm not so sure things would go that easy with my S, however, he would just as soon never deal with his dad again.
Yes, at 19, they're pissed, at 6 and 9, they're pining.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't want to disparage their dad but I want my kids to know better...tough stuff.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yes, at 19, they're pissed, at 6 and 9, they're pining.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't want to disparage their dad but I want my kids to know better...tough stuff.

My parents began having problems and divorced early. It started before I was six. Though I was somewhat sheltered from it at the time, as I look back I know exactly which parent took the high road and which was not there when they should have been.
Ya, I have some faith in that but it is tough to shake these issues as you know. My H was very empathetic and defensive of his mom for many years, it is what made me trusting that the apple had fallen far and now, here he is, in a way bonding with his dad and feeling manly because he finally "understands" him. It is repugnant to witness.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
here he is, in a way bonding with his dad and feeling manly because he finally "understands" him. It is repugnant to witness.

Repugnant...or sad? Understands or found someone to make him feel OK about what he's doing?

It all comes back around sooner or later.
Yes, but the cycle continues and it sucks. That is what is repugnant to me, to see H bonding with his dad and his dad embracing it (sort of "welcome to the dark side")...in the mean time, our kids go through what H went through and they have to process this and reconcile what a man is and does. They idolize their dad.

It makes me want to vomit, that is why I used the word "repugnant"...I said "understands" in quotes because I know it's a cop out but I also know that H is satiating his life-long desire to have his dad's attention and approval and he has it now. It is gross.

Anyway, I can't control it, I just find it confusing. I want to be amicable but then I feel that I appear to be condoning...you know?
And H's dad never got it. He left his second wife with two kids for his mistress too. Maybe he'll get it on his deathbed but I doubt it.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yes, but the cycle continues and it sucks. That is what is repugnant to me, to see H bonding with his dad and his dad embracing it (sort of "welcome to the dark side")...in the mean time, our kids go through what H went through and they have to process this and reconcile what a man is and does. They idolize their dad.

It makes me want to vomit, that is why I used the word "repugnant"...I said "understands" in quotes because I know it's a cop out but I also know that H is satiating his life-long desire to have his dad's attention and approval and he has it now. It is gross.

Anyway, I can't control it, I just find it confusing. I want to be amicable but then I feel that I appear to be condoning...you know?

I totally know. Wow, breaking the cycle. How big is that? Marriage vows, prenups, how about committing to breaking from destructive family patterns and cycles as a goal? You know what's funny? When I was in the process of leaving W I had it all rationalized in my mind. Kids would be fine! Humans aren't meant to be committed forever. Dude, I had myself convinced...effin hilarious that I could rationalize myself into believing such crap.

Good news is, I get it and our family is not yet a statistic. We'll see what happens. We men can be as dumb as hammers A&K but we can change and when we do it can be profound.

As for the condoning, you can be positive about H. You can remind the kids how much he loves them. That doesn't mean you have to condone other behavior. He needs to own that today and in the future.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
And H's dad never got it. He left his second wife with two kids for his mistress too. Maybe he'll get it on his deathbed but I doubt it.

We never know what people think inside their own heads. H's dad may never reveal whether he gets it or not. I think it's a lot harder for second gen (H) to run from the truth. Not saying he can't or won't, I just think it's a lot harder...IMHO ;-)
Ok. I'll buy that.

I fear my H will change but when it is too late or when he settles down with his next family...

We have been through one separation. He had a consciousness of breaking the cycle...we were in counseling, he expressed regret and remorse...there was however a subtle implication that his guilt was pervasive and almost an excuse to give up on really succeeding as a couple. I don't know if that makes sense. I've read it on other threads...some Ss actually saying they themselves had screwed up too much and done irreparable damage etc.

My H has told me that leaving was the most respectful thing he could have done. Whatever. As you said, when one is on a certain track...the justifications are plentiful.

But, I do concede that a) I don't know what he really thinks/feels and b) it is much harder for him to pull this off than it was for his father (whose father had died when he was young)...there will probably be no peace for my H, ever...without some real catharsis. I only hope I and my children can feel whole and peaceful regardless.
Posted By: antlers Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/15/09 02:26 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan


We men can be as dumb as hammers, but we can change and when we do it can be profound.




True that!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
We have been through one separation. He had a consciousness of breaking the cycle...we were in counseling, he expressed regret and remorse...there was however a subtle implication that his guilt was pervasive and almost an excuse to give up on really succeeding as a couple. I don't know if that makes sense. I've read it on other threads...some Ss actually saying they themselves had screwed up too much and done irreparable damage etc.

Yep, if I understand you correctly I've been through all of that with the exception of separation. In hindsight, I think that my own guilt based on my perceived failure as a husband and father had me believing that there was no hope. I was unable to believe in myself and forgive myself. I haven't thought through the rest but perhaps I didn't feel that I deserved to be loved and as a result didn't believe I was loved. I know I didn't feel loved when I left.

But guess what? I get it now smile
I know it is possible. I just hate how the timing seems to work out and my kids are profoundly impacted by H's absence and having to be away from me in order to be with him...

If H felt guilty before, he's got one hell of a hole to dig himself out of now.
Here's an example. If I were to treat H as the slimeball I think he is (right now), I would ask for separate time with the kids on S6's birthday and I would not have a party together with H.

But, as it is, smile, wave and vomit in my mouth occasionally... eek
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Here's an example. If I were to treat H as the slimeball I think he is (right now), I would ask for separate time with the kids on S6's birthday and I would not have a party together with H.

W did party with me for D14 last month. I don't know how she felt about it. She may have been glad that I was there, she may have felt happy for D14 that I was there or she may have been vomiting in her mouth. I do know that I have huge respect for her for inviting me and I know that D14 will look back 20 years from now and see what she did and respect it too.
Wow, H is pretty predictable. I put a picture on facebook that is particularly good (a pro pic) and I get a call from H basically stuttering and wanting to chat and eventually saying "if I could just remove my brain from my head, I'd be a better person." I handled the conversation with levity and patience and I chose to end it after his aforementioned awesomely astute comment. I said, "I think I want to leave it on this note. I find it very amusing. I find you amusing." Which led to his quick reference to Goodfella's which was always our little joke...and I said, "not amusing as in like a clown, more intellectually amusing."

My friend says that I can do better...I'm hanging on that thought.
I am absolutely stumped when it comes to deciding where to move with my kids and where they should go to school and what path I should take for myself (career-wise etc)...nothing feels right or clear.

I need to start moving and all I want to do is stay still.

I'm also PMSing, feeling a bit down and H comes back in a couple of days...then my kids go to him one day and then we spend a whole day together as a family for S6's bday.
Posted By: tristan Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/16/09 06:47 PM
A&K

I have often felt paralyzed recently. I think it is human to not want to make the hard choices. I guess you just have to make them and move on.

Good luck.
Posted By: Coach Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/16/09 06:52 PM
Quote:
I am absolutely stumped when it comes to deciding where to move with my kids and where they should go to school and what path I should take for myself (career-wise etc)...nothing feels right or clear.



Start with the end in mind. Then break it down into pieces. You can handle it. The activity helps create more energy to get moving.

Cheers
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I am absolutely stumped when it comes to deciding where to move with my kids and where they should go to school and what path I should take for myself (career-wise etc)...nothing feels right or clear.

I need to start moving and all I want to do is stay still.

I'm also PMSing, feeling a bit down and H comes back in a couple of days...then my kids go to him one day and then we spend a whole day together as a family for S6's bday.

Interesting that you bring this up right now cuz I'm grappling with similar issues. I find myself going in circles on planning about where to live, etc. because I can't seem to not factor in all the what if we reconcile issues. I end up for weeks now doing nothing. I need to focus on the ideal end-state assuming no reconciliation. So what does one year from now look like for you? Work from home situation in good school district with important amenities nearby and a support network nearby? Simple lifestyle, low maintenance situation to focus on you, kids and work? Now what's the plan. You already know all this stuff...you just need me to come over and kick you in the a$$ to get you going....LOL!!
Quote:
you just need me to come over and kick you in the a$$ to get you going....LOL!!


Well, assuming you're all the way in Boston, that could take a little too long.

But, ya, you hit the nail on the head. My sliver of hope is having a temper tantrum even though, in reality, I could not even consider living with H right away. So, the move is imminent regardless.

I am still waiting to get word about something very valuable I am trying to sell and it is taking waaaaay longer than it was supposed to and it makes a huge difference as to how I will handle my debt and my finances...have to carry on as if it wont happen but it is frustrating.

Career- well, I have considered going back to school. I am also sort of eeking toward a very fantastical old pursuit...the world is my oyster. grin
Posted By: AlexEN Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/16/09 08:02 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
[quote]Career- well, I have considered going back to school. I am also sort of eeking toward a very fantastical old pursuit...the world is my oyster. grin


Not the Tattoo Parlor again!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, assuming you're all the way in Boston, that could take a little too long.

No where near Boston though I did live there briefly in the past. Not on the west coast either though I am out there periodically for business travel.

RSF...who knows how I came up with that!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Career- well, I have considered going back to school. I am also sort of eeking toward a very fantastical old pursuit...the world is my oyster. grin

Sounds like a blast!

We're all different, but for me I'd say keeping things simple for the next year or so feels right. I'm not really afraid of tons of simultaneous change...actually I sometimes thrive on it...but I think I want to leave plenty of room for enjoying kids, life, etc. without too much stress or pressure. Ya know?
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Career- well, I have considered going back to school. I am also sort of eeking toward a very fantastical old pursuit...the world is my oyster. grin

Sounds like a blast!

We're all different, but for me I'd say keeping things simple for the next year or so feels right. I'm not really afraid of tons of simultaneous change...actually I sometimes thrive on it...but I think I want to leave plenty of room for enjoying kids, life, etc. without too much stress or pressure. Ya know?



Ya, I get it. I just have been dependent on H for so long, I am really starting over in every way.

BTW- my grin was a bit sarcastic. I'm trying to look at the positives but I'm pretty nauseated by the ambiguity.
Originally Posted By: AlexEN
[quote=aliveandkicking]
Quote:
Career- well, I have considered going back to school. I am also sort of eeking toward a very fantastical old pursuit...the world is my oyster. grin


Not the Tattoo Parlor again!


No tattoo parlor...and hey, how are you?????
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Career

OK, I'll come clean. I don't really have any marital problems at all. I'm just here doing research for a new Divorce Busting reality TV show I'm working on...want in?

NOT!!
crazy
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
I am absolutely stumped when it comes to deciding where to move with my kids and where they should go to school and what path I should take for myself (career-wise etc)...nothing feels right or clear.



Start with the end in mind. Then break it down into pieces. You can handle it. The activity helps create more energy to get moving.

Cheers


Thanks Coach...I hate to be a whiner but really, nothing feels "right"...I mean I think I know my preference but each choice obviously requires compromise and I'm afraid to make the big choices...waaa, where are my "big girl" panties???
Originally Posted By: Coach
The activity helps create more energy to get moving.

yep

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm afraid to make the big choices...waaa, where are my "big girl" panties???

How big are the choices really? People who make many decisions, quickly, then discard or course correct when they don't work, get much further in life, business, whatever, then people who hesitate, over analyze, exercise too much caution, etc.

How big are the decisions really? Does the world end if you need to course correct? If they're too too huge, maybe you don't make them right now. Decide to decide!!

I think I was talking to myself but maybe that helped you too ;-)
Well, I tend to overanalyze and be very conscientious; sometimes to a fault but with my H being such an impulsive weenie, I have sort of been the voice of reason. I used to be much more spontaneous but I always felt that I could deal with the ramifications because it was my life. Now, my kids are involved and I feel responsible for making more thoughtful decisions.

I realize it isn't the end of the world but here's the deal. The kids school is far from where I live now. I don't love where I live now (have to move cuz the house is too expensive anyway). I don't love the school (a bunch of people are leaving) but it is an alternative arts school and the kids like it- it is moving further away to an area that I am not crazy about (smoggier and more urban) but the kids would be stressed to change schools now...but, better to make the switch now and put down roots somewhere.

The area I want to live in would be much more idyllic but further from extended family and from H (by about 30-45 minutes)...I know some people there but not well but it is a real community so I imagine we'd do alright.

So, I need to decided where we will move and the kids will have to change schools too...unless I move to an area I'm not crazy about to keep them in the school which is going through major upheaval...

This stuff stresses me out because it is about my kids' educations, lifestyle, friends, proximity to family etc.


Oh, and lastly, the place I want to move requires a stroke of luck to find a place and can be pricy.

So, I am looking everywhere and hoping something strikes me as "it"...

Welcome to my brain. crazy
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
This stuff stresses me out because it is about my kids' educations, lifestyle, friends, proximity to family etc.

Dude, I have some much respect for you, you have no idea. My challenges and problems are minuscule comparatively. Seriously, I'm humbled by the strength and bravery I see from so many on this forum. No doubt that sounds like a bunch of corny bullsh*t but its the truth.

So I get your predicament. I definitely agree about your focus on maintaining consistency and stability for the kids wherever possible. What I didn't see enough of in your problem description is an account for your needs. You are the most important piece of consistency and stability in the kids lives. Your happiness, is their happiness. If friends, community, and support are important to you then make sure you're valuing them appropriately. If I were you, and that's a big if, I would do the math and figure out where you want to be and go after it whole a$$. I'm not for the 'cast a wide net and see what you catch' approach.

Either way you're strong and brave and smart and a good mother and I already know you'll be successful and happy.
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
This stuff stresses me out because it is about my kids' educations, lifestyle, friends, proximity to family etc.

Dude, I have some much respect for you, you have no idea. My challenges and problems are minuscule comparatively. Seriously, I'm humbled by the strength and bravery I see from so many on this forum. No doubt that sounds like a bunch of corny bullsh*t but its the truth.

So I get your predicament. I definitely agree about your focus on maintaining consistency and stability for the kids wherever possible. What I didn't see enough of in your problem description is an account for your needs. You are the most important piece of consistency and stability in the kids lives. Your happiness, is their happiness. If friends, community, and support are important to you then make sure you're valuing them appropriately. If I were you, and that's a big if, I would do the math and figure out where you want to be and go after it whole a$$. I'm not for the 'cast a wide net and see what you catch' approach.

Either way you're strong and brave and smart and a good mother and I already know you'll be successful and happy.


Damn that's nice of you. Thanks. When you follow corny bullsh*t with "go after it whole a$$"...it's a good example of what works for women. wink

I have to take responsibility for the fact that I don't really know what will make me happy. I have learned how to be happy no matter what so I am now more attached to the outcome for my children than for myself...I'm not sure if that makes sense but, really, we have moved so many times and things are absolutely contrary to how I envisioned them, we have no real roots, we have friends all over in different areas...my children's well-being and quality of life is of paramount importance to me and is directly correlated to my satisfaction with my life. I don't live through them but being their mom is #1 on my list.

I just had an hour long conversation initiated by S9 crying about his fear of death. It evolved into one of those most memorable events where S9, just before falling asleep, declared that he is so happy to be him, not me, not his brother, not x or y or z but himself...it was so wonderful.

Somewhere in there I asked them what they think is at the top of my list of what I'm grateful for and S6 said "your marriage"...that really floored me and led to a touchy conversation...one of those, I wish H could hear what I'm hearing moments but as I told my kids, things don't always appear to be just how you want them, but they are just how they are meant to be. Sounds trite but we explored the topic more and it was so good.

I have two amazing boys. I am really blessed. I have diverged a bit here but since I can't share this with H, I figured I'd share it here.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I have to take responsibility for the fact that I don't really know what will make me happy. I have learned how to be happy no matter what so I am now more attached to the outcome for my children than for myself...I'm not sure if that makes sense but, really, we have moved so many times and things are absolutely contrary to how I envisioned them, we have no real roots, we have friends all over in different areas...my children's well-being and quality of life is of paramount importance to me and is directly correlated to my satisfaction with my life. I don't live through them but being their mom is #1 on my list.

[Speaking in my gentle, kind and caring voice] To be honest, I just read a series of really well crafted excuses. Excuses written by a person who knows what happiness is, has every right and reason to be happy, is not going to allow it to happen. Taking responsibility for it means allowing it to happen A&K.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I just had an hour long conversation initiated by S9 crying about his fear of death. It evolved into one of those most memorable events where S9, just before falling asleep, declared that he is so happy to be him, not me, not his brother, not x or y or z but himself...it was so wonderful.

Somewhere in there I asked them what they think is at the top of my list of what I'm grateful for and S6 said "your marriage"...that really floored me and led to a touchy conversation...one of those, I wish H could hear what I'm hearing moments but as I told my kids, things don't always appear to be just how you want them, but they are just how they are meant to be. Sounds trite but we explored the topic more and it was so good.

I have two amazing boys. I am really blessed. I have diverged a bit here but since I can't share this with H, I figured I'd share it here.

See this is why I'm so in awe of you and the people on this forum who brave it out through the toughest of circumstances. It's because you really get what this is all about. What's important. I feel so sorry for the WASs who are unable or unwilling to 'get it' and consequently don't get to experience wonderful moments like these.

You are blessed smile
Good Morning Alive,


"The area I want to live in would be much more idyllic but further from extended family and from H (by about 30-45 minutes)...I know some people there but not well but it is a real community so I imagine we'd do alright."



Although it's not quite the same circumstance, since I just changed schools for my 6yr old S, I thought I'd chime in with my HO.

Changing schools is usually met with resistance by most kids & I believe becomes more difficult as they get older.

Going for the area you'd be happier living in will translate into a happier Alive, & more than likely happier children as well.

Living in most parts of L.A. at one time or another, my quality of life was considerably better & less stressed in Santa Monica, for instance, than Hollywood.

From following along here, I have no doubt that you will make a thoughtful decision that'll work for you.

Your children are really fortunate to have a mother like you!

Take Care,

Sunny


Quote:
[Speaking in my gentle, kind and caring voice] To be honest, I just read a series of really well crafted excuses. Excuses written by a person who knows what happiness is, has every right and reason to be happy, is not going to allow it to happen. Taking responsibility for it means allowing it to happen A&K.


Well, my happiest time was when I had the singular focus of caring for my first child and my husband was making a decent living. I felt such simple and clear purposefulness...that is just not duplicatable at this moment.

But, I take from it that I (as many people do) feel more content when I feel purposeful and not spread so thin. I don't have a clear path for that kind of scenario.

I am open to many possibilities as I recognize that everything has it's postives and negatives. This has served me well and helped me pull out of my depression and know that whatever happens, we'll be ok. But, on the flip side, it makes it tough for me to feel passionate about any given path.

I am trying to break it down and I think it needs to start with how much money I will get from H so I know what I'm working with.

And, of course, I concur that it is all "excuses"...I have so much anxiety when I wake up in the morning and I talk myself into a better place, mostly by reminding myself that it will all work out somehow and that my happiness is my choice...but, I've got to take the next step and care enough to make choices.
Originally Posted By: Generosity
Good Morning Alive,


"The area I want to live in would be much more idyllic but further from extended family and from H (by about 30-45 minutes)...I know some people there but not well but it is a real community so I imagine we'd do alright."



Although it's not quite the same circumstance, since I just changed schools for my 6yr old S, I thought I'd chime in with my HO.

Changing schools is usually met with resistance by most kids & I believe becomes more difficult as they get older.

Going for the area you'd be happier living in will translate into a happier Alive, & more than likely happier children as well.

Living in most parts of L.A. at one time or another, my quality of life was considerably better & less stressed in Santa Monica, for instance, than Hollywood.

From following along here, I have no doubt that you will make a thoughtful decision that'll work for you.

Your children are really fortunate to have a mother like you!

Take Care,

Sunny




Thanks, yes, it is basically a beach proximity versus East side dilemma. The anxiety about changing schools is mostly due to the fact that S9 has changed twice already and of course, they are dealing with their dad having left. I have wondered if I should get a cheaper place closer to the current school and let S9 finish elementary and then move but given his age maybe better sooner than later...

I really appreciate your input.
Seems so many sitches are coming to a head around here. Bracing myself for the conversation with H and for likely filing...

Trying to remember that movement is good and healthy and welcome it.

My son just asked me last night again if H and I are "still married"...sooner or later we all need a real answer.

Strength, peace and gratitude.

I remember my friend who died of cancer at 30 leaving behind her 3 year old.

We have our health and our children, must be grateful.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Seems so many sitches are coming to a head around here. Bracing myself for the conversation with H and for likely filing...

Trying to remember that movement is good and healthy and welcome it.

My son just asked me last night again if H and I are "still married"...sooner or later we all need a real answer.

Strength, peace and gratitude.

I remember my friend who died of cancer at 30 leaving behind her 3 year old.

We have our health and our children, must be grateful.

OK, I've written a bunch of different things then deleted them. Anonymous forums are amazing and beautiful and sometimes awkward.

Just know that you're not alone smile
Cryptic.

But I think I get you.

Yes, your sitch and Stuck's and Dia's...getting me ready to take my own advice and woman up.

Then there are sitches in which the actual addressing of D issue brings about real catharsis...so, I am hopeful while dealing with the brutal reality.

Breaking a mild sweat but I guess I'll work out to keep it under control.

This site is a real God send...none of us are alone.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Cryptic.

But I think I get you.

I'm still kinda getting accustomed to the feeling/sharing/emotional stuff and don't want to be awkward smile

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yes, your sitch and Stuck's and Dia's...getting me ready to take my own advice and woman up.

I've found it very easy to read the books, study and give advice. I'm a bit of an academic anyway...but it's way different putting this stuff into practice. If you shared my posts with my colleagues in the workplace they'd never believe this was me.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Then there are sitches in which the actual addressing of D issue brings about real catharsis...so, I am hopeful while dealing with the brutal reality.

Breaking a mild sweat but I guess I'll work out to keep it under control.{/quote]
I see so much hope in your sitch. Funny how that works.

[quote=aliveandkicking]This site is a real God send...none of us are alone.

Social media and tech are a big part of my business and life. Never in my wildest dreams expected or experienced anything like this forum. I feel blessed.

Sorry tonight has been so much about me. I haven't had a chance to spend much time on other threads.
Quote:
Sorry tonight has been so much about me. I haven't had a chance to spend much time on other threads.


You are here for you. You don't owe anyone anything.
Insomnia...ouch.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/18/09 09:48 AM
Work and Budget prep... Double ouch!!!!!

Sorry A&K...
Aaaaah, still got a get the kids outta here and do my day...oh well...sleep, another time.

aaargh. smirk
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Insomnia...ouch.

Strange coincidence. I got out of bed and sat in front of the computer for like 5 minutes at right about this time. One of those nights.
Ya, I think my H coming back into town and knowing that this has to be addressed did a little number on me. Tired, but I'm alright.
Posted By: Coach Re: Robx- here ya go, more blood letting... - 09/18/09 07:01 PM
Take a nap and eat a bowl of Mojo Flakes. You get it now. No fear.
Originally Posted By: Coach
Take a nap and eat a bowl of Mojo Flakes. You get it now. No fear.


Ah, Mojo Flakes, I knew there was something I forgot to pick up yesterday.

Yes, I do get it. grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 08:26 PM
AAK is extremely indecisive and has become so well trained in non-attachment to outcome that I can't seem to connect with mere preferences...

Lack of sleep and no Mojo Flakes makes it worse but sheesh, do I want to end up with the under the gun default option? Or will my "wait till the spirit moves me" position actually eventually lead to a serendipitous "it all just worked out somehow" resolution?

The plot thickens...

Sidenote- at this point I wish H would stay thousands of miles away, much easier.
Posted By: Coach Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 08:34 PM
Go to "youtube" and search for The Codetalkers "Saved By the Same Thing"

it's one of my theme songs, it addresses you question



Love the band too.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 08:52 PM
Cool song...I guess I'll just kick back and let it unfold. grin crazy
Posted By: Coach Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 09:08 PM
Make sure you really listen to it. He phrases some things kinda backwards.

"Success comes from doing,
not from not doing"
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 09:11 PM
Yes, yes, I was being sarcastic. I heard it. wink
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 10:40 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yes, yes, I was being sarcastic. I heard it. wink

It's so damn easy to point out when someone else is not doing the obvious things they need to do for themselves and yet its so hard to actually see it in and do it for ones self....frustrating.

I'm particularly adept at sabotaging my own situations.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 11:25 PM
Well, sometimes it is less about identifying it (I understand myself quite well actually) but honing the tools to do something about it. We are creatures of habit. I waffle...I hesitate...I am ultra conscious of doing the "right" thing...

I used to be a spontaneous, impulsive chic but with the weight of extenuating consequences and kids who depend on me, I became very practical and very deliberate. A lot of this comes from wondering what the f*ck the people who raised me were thinking (answer, they weren't)...so I go a bit overboard and am very cerebral.

Now, time to get used to knowing which to employ when and not throw the fun, alive, spontaneous chic out with the bath water.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Newsflash...not really - 09/18/09 11:36 PM
H just called. He's baaaack...I just don't want to deal with it. Oh well, I married him, I procreated with him, I have to deal with him...

Still looking for those big girl panties, I know they're here somewhere. grin
Posted By: aliveandkicking Giant B*lls! - 09/18/09 11:55 PM
Holy sh*t...H called again so I answered. The set he's got on him...he suggested that he stop by my parents tonight (a dinner he was deliberately not invited to) to say hi to the kids...I was audibly stunned. He said, "well, I guess not." I said "I'm surprised that you would think that would be reasonable. I mean you don't really talk to my mom and..." He said, "I talk to your mom and I've had lunch with your dad, it is your sisters. But I don't care." I said, "well there are other people's feelings involved and I think it would be really uncomfortable. I don't know why you think my dad doesn't have feelings about this." He said I know he does, but I'm ok with it."

If he walked in there, all 30 people would probably be stunned and completely aghast. He was not invited and he knows it. WTF?????

He is in denial or something.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:05 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
If he walked in there, all 30 people would probably be stunned and completely aghast. He was not invited and he knows it. WTF?????

He is in denial or something.

I have really yearned to be connected to my in laws lately. I appreciate them way more than I ever did. I want back in. Being a part of all their lives was a special gift that came from my connection to W.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:08 AM
When you leave your family and parade on facebook with other women, you don't get invited to my dad's house for a dinner party. That's per my dad. I spared telling H that, not sure why.

I am sure he is jealous to that I get along with his mom and siblings and am always invited. Hellooo, I did not leave my family.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:09 AM
I'm sleep deprived and PMSing and RSF, I might just take it out on you if you relate too much to H. Yearning is one thing and can perhaps make one think but assuming that everyone else should suck it up and endure that kind of discomfort is so self centered and crass. IMO.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:11 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
When you leave your family and parade on facebook with other women, you don't get invited to my dad's house for a dinner party. That's per my dad. I spared telling H that, not sure why.

I am sure he is jealous to that I get along with his mom and siblings and am always invited. Hellooo, I did not leave my family.


Amen, sista...you should have told him. I get why I'm out. But I care and want back in. That's all.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:12 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm sleep deprived and PMSing and RSF, I might just take it out on you if you relate too much to H. Yearning is one thing and can perhaps make one think but assuming that everyone else should suck it up and endure that kind of discomfort is so self centered and crass. IMO.


Go on with it girl...I can take a little heat.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:14 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm sleep deprived and PMSing and RSF, I might just take it out on you if you relate too much to H. Yearning is one thing and can perhaps make one think but assuming that everyone else should suck it up and endure that kind of discomfort is so self centered and crass. IMO.


Go on with it girl...I can take a little heat.



blush
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:18 AM
I sent him a text that I would have the kids call him and he could tell them he'll see them in the morning and that I would not get into why, but that is just me.

He said ok. And then, "you're the boss."

This is one of those ignore situations...despite my desire to rip him a new a**hole.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:28 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I sent him a text that I would have the kids call him and he could tell them he'll see them in the morning and that I would not get into why, but that is just me.

He said ok. And then, "you're the boss."

This is one of those ignore situations...despite my desire to rip him a new a**hole.

That's definitely big girl...I thought of 5 things to say back to him in just the instant I read that. High road. You win again. Cha-ching!!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:54 AM
Well he just followed with "sorry, that wasn't for you."

more ignore.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 01:07 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well he just followed with "sorry, that wasn't for you."

more ignore.

yep, but at least he's realizing when he sticks his foot up his own a$$ or is that mouth...whatev ;-)
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 01:08 AM
did you see my response to your fixation question?

and shouldn't you bee at dinner by now?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 01:09 AM
Kids called h and he asked to talk to me. I nipped it nicely. He's feeling left out I presume, however I doubt he finds it fair or atributes it to his actions. Rather, he just thinks it is petty or cruel. Mindreading here but better here than engaging with him.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 01:15 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Kids called h and he asked to talk to me. I nipped it nicely. He's feeling left out I presume, however I doubt he finds it fair or atributes it to his actions. Rather, he just thinks it is petty or cruel. Mindreading here but better here than engaging with him.

Silly question, but do you tell him in a plain calm voice what's going on? I know there's a history here and youve been down many paths and you are where you are for reasons known to you...just curious about the telling him thing.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 01:44 AM
Well, I will want some advice on here on what I should and shouldn't get into when we have our talk next week.

I refuse to get dragged into being mommy and lecturing and spelling it out on an individual basis. I stick to the facts. It works better. I don't take the bait.

On my way to dinner. See ya later.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 12:56 PM
How was the dinner party?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 03:55 PM
Great. Thanks for asking.

I did really miss H. It was a family dinner, the kind we used to always come to together and observe all of the hilarity together...

I drank a wee bit and texted him, just friendly. Not something I think was a great thing to do but certainly not the end of the world. Problem is it is not sticking to my own boundary so it muddies the waters.

But, I want to sit down with him next week and go over money and logistics so I think a lot will change after that.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 04:05 PM
yeah, I can totally see how that would be hard. A drink or a glass of wine always seems to make it harder.

I can't help but think A&K that he needs to feel more of the reality and gravity of the situation. Again, I'm at a distance and only you know, but a little less texting and a little more financial discussion feels like the right mix.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 04:15 PM
Yes! It was one text and then I didn't respond to his response (was nice and clean).

I was hanging with my girlfriend when I sent it. The night was fine, wasn't heavy or particularly hard. I didn't send some drippy emotional text.

Last night would have been hellish six months ago. I had a great time.

Yes, dealing with the finances and impending move and all of that will add to the gravity of what is happening.

I think the hardest part is that I am over trying to make him see or impact his perception so I am very casual. But, it may be counterproductive if I do want him to come back...I just don't know anymore. It is easier to be nice when I have given up. But, I always have a tiny shred of hope.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 04:17 PM
Oh, for some odd reason, I caught adorable, younger family friend (male) staring at me throughout the night...my girl friend noticed it too. I don't sh*t where I eat IYKWIM but the attention was nice. grin
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 05:23 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, for some odd reason, I caught adorable, younger family friend (male) staring at me throughout the night...my girl friend noticed it too. I don't sh*t where I eat IYKWIM but the attention was nice. grin


tssssssst smokin!
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 05:31 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I think the hardest part is that I am over trying to make him see or impact his perception so I am very casual. But, it may be counterproductive if I do want him to come back...I just don't know anymore. It is easier to be nice when I have given up. But, I always have a tiny shred of hope.

So whether you want him to come back or not..or you just don't know...why not have the choice? If that's the case then...

It just seems to me (all usual disclaimers apply here) that you are doing a decent job of distancing, with an occasional reach out to keep him attentive but not actually exposing him to (or maybe even sheltering him from) some of the harder reality that's going to wake him up. Again, I may be missing the whole thing but that's just what it looks like from up here in the bleachers...that's Red Sox baseball humor. I really have to change that user name ;-)
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 07:25 PM
Quote:
It just seems to me (all usual disclaimers apply here) that you are doing a decent job of distancing, with an occasional reach out to keep him attentive but not actually exposing him to (or maybe even sheltering him from) some of the harder reality that's going to wake him up. Again, I may be missing the whole thing but that's just what it looks like from up here in the bleachers...that's Red Sox baseball humor. I really have to change that user name ;-)


This paragraph just opened up a whole can of worms for me...in a good way. I'm going to sort out and then post. Thanks.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/19/09 11:10 PM
So, after reading this, I thought about it and was going to respond that the "harder reality" is not something that will ever hit H but will hit me based on his exhibited priorities and because the losses are of things I value and he doesn't; that basing my decisions on making sure that he feels the loss is a waste of time and that I may as well be amicable, easy and do what works for me.

Then, it hit me how in the process of detaching, I have become very jaded. That to protect myself, I have really erased so much evidence that H cares deeply about his kids, our marriage and our family. There were so many exhibitions of his devotion over the years but over time his sense of hope eroded and he decided he couldn't afford to care anymore. That he had to choose and our crappy marriage wasn't worth more than a potential shot at the big time. Now, this is a real tricky place for me to go mentally and doesn't change much because where we are now matters and I have no evidence whatsoever that H could build a new M with me and that we could recover from all that we have been through. But, I think I have been way off in assuming that he doesn't feel the loss or that he wont.

Today when I dropped off the kids it was really odd that he buzzed us up and then as we approached his apartment, a song about not being able to stay apart (one that he had sent me a video of, work related a few weeks ago), was conspicuously blasting with his door open. Then once we were in, he turned it down. It was so blatant but I had to write it off as nothing cuz it is just too elusive to read into. Then, he gave me a hello hug (tight squeeze) and then some chocolate he brought back for me. He gave the kids some gifts. He invited me to lunch and I told him I couldn't go. He looked surprised and I said that I have very little time and I'm going out tonight so I've got to get some things done. He asked if I was sure. And, I reiterated that I've had the kids non-stop and I need this time. Plus, we are going to be together all day tomorrow for S's bday. Then we agreed to go to an ATM to get me some money to put in my account. It was taking a long time to get out of his place and I realized that he can just put the money in my account without me. When I proposed this, he looked disappointed but couldn't say much.

It was so pleasant and manageable for me but I could tell he was wanting me with them.

I left and then texted regarding the kids because he had mentioned that he was taking them out tonight. I told him that I was sorry that I didn't send them with any clothes for tonight because I thought he would just be hanging with them. He said he was supposed to take them to a dressy dinner.

I offered to try to meet him with some clothes (he's asked me in the past to pack things just in case and I didn't so I figured I would try to be helpful).

He then texted me that he decided to just be with the kids and spend time with them hanging in.

I said, "that's awesome! :)"

So, now, I have to know that he does care and still do my thing anyway.

I have gotten to the point where I just want to live my life, be amicable, set my boundaries but stop completely at trying to woo him back. Ironically though, that could actually be the thing that seals the deal for us, that I am not even invested enough to try to withhold more so that he can feel the loss more.

I think that I will stay on this track and do what feels right. If he doesn't see what he is losing, I just think he is not ever going to see it. I don't know if I'm making sense at all here. I could be punitive. I could consistently ignore, go completely dark, not give him the time of day. But, I am about 95% convinced that he and I are over and I would rather have an amicable divorce than a bitter one so I want to be cool. I am definitely never extending myself beyond what is comfortable and I am living my own life. But I see how this sort of pleasantry could sort of assuage his doubts if he has them. Then again, maybe this is more uncomfortable for him than I know and maybe it is "working"...

I just can't bring myself to strategize in an effort to get him back anymore. Strange.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 12:27 AM
Not strange at all. It's an attitude needed for survival.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 12:30 AM
Feels strange. cool

I've never not cared while caring so much in my life about everything...

and on an esoteric level, I think I (like most) have longed to reconcile the sheer insignificance of little me with the necessary will to live and enjoy life...

and so we grow.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 03:57 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I just can't bring myself to strategize in an effort to get him back anymore. Strange.

No. Not strange at all. smile

I want to be thoughtful in response. Long night doing Oktoberfest with girls. Parlez-vous demain.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 09:13 AM
Ok, but can you speak to me in Italian instead of French? wink
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 12:23 PM
If I could speak Italian I wouldn't be on this forum ;-O
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 02:17 PM
aaaaahhh. Dumb girl alert. I went out last night and got home waay to late and S7 just called for me to come over cuz it is birthday and we're all spending the day together...

I need coffee, Midol and a valium...;)

buongiorno!
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Giant B*lls! - 09/20/09 04:58 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
aaaaahhh. Dumb girl alert. I went out last night and got home waay to late and S7 just called for me to come over cuz it is birthday and we're all spending the day together...

I need coffee, Midol and a valium...;)

buongiorno!

OH NO! I hate when I do that!
Want the ultimate DB challenge?

Spend ALL day with your estranged spouse and children. Breakfast, lunch, dinner, everything in between and bedtime to boot.

Today we spent S7's bday together.

My time with H was like an entire thread here in one day. Signs that he is coming out of his fog (erasing overtly self-absorbed and thoughtless photos from facebook, referencing a feeling of complete disassociation from his experience of living at rich people's house-feels like it wasn't real)...still pretty obsessed with rock star and plans to work with him more (there may actually be money there), comments about getting the whole truth out and inquiries into my personal life (I literally sang "la la la la la la la..." whenever it was crossing a line). I made it clear that we were having such a nice time and certain topics were too uncomfortable, especially with the kids there. Something came up about one of the girls on his face book and he went on to intermittently mention that things aren't always what they seem and other cryptic messages...our rapport went from flirtatious to bantery to totally focused on the kids to married-like. I went from moments of just wanting to touch any part of our bodies to moments of sheer detachment. He played a few songs in the car with lyrics about not giving up on relationships etc. Again, he looked so oblivious and I refuse to indulge in reading between such shallow lines...but the feelings were all over the place.

While there were so many moments that screamed possible reconciliation, there were just as many that screamed it is over...

He made it clear that he wants the relief of full disclosure. That is not really something I want. I let him know that certain topics should be covered more next week when we meet for what he referred to as "the talk"...but, I really don't want to discuss our personal lives.

At the end of the night the kids were so tired and I put them to bed at his place which they loved but was really strange. Then I actually laid on H's bed with him and watched a little tv and then left. I texted him to thank him for the day and for choosing where we went (I like that he led and it was a wonderful time).

I saw all the things I don't like about him and those that I do. It was really bizarre.

We are family. I don't know how to shed that feeling. I don't know if I need to. I don't know what the new normal is supposed to look like, feel like. I don't know if I am being too cool...but, aside from a few moments of really digging us being a family together, digging his humor, feeling wifely (in a good way), overall, I felt like a lifelong friend...no pining, no tingly sensation. wink

I love that I was able to be so different. No bitching at him for things that have no bearing on me anymore. No nitpicking.

I don't know what we are doing. I closed the bathroom door at one point earlier in the day because he was peeing with no consciousness of my presence. He was in his underwear at the end of the night as if that was just so normal.

I dunno. I am looking at a place tomorrow.

I understand what I love about the idea of having my family together because, even with all of the weirdness and ambiguity, we fit today. We laughed, we managed the kids, we kept it positive for the most part and together...

For now, there is no new normal. I am floating in outer space. I don't long for him but I do feel a bit lonely tonight.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
While there were so many moments that screamed possible reconciliation, there were just as many that screamed it is over...

...and wherer was that ration 1, 3 6 months ago?

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
He made it clear that he wants the relief of full disclosure. That is not really something I want. I let him know that certain topics should be covered more next week when we meet for what he referred to as "the talk"...but, I really don't want to discuss our personal lives.

Not sure what you mean here but either way it doesn't seem like the time is right.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
We are family. I don't know how to shed that feeling. I don't know if I need to. I don't know what the new normal is supposed to look like, feel like. I don't know if I am being too cool...but, aside from a few moments of really digging us being a family together, digging his humor, feeling wifely (in a good way), overall, I felt like a lifelong friend...no pining, no tingly sensation. wink

Family, yes and will always be so from the boys perspective so you are.

I have no idea about the cool thing but I'd make a wild guess that you're on 10 or 11 and need to dial back to 9 wink

As for tingly, This is just me but I'd go for the feeling of friendship first. Can't say that I'm sure about that one. Sometimes I wonder if by backing way off I'm just proving to W that the spark is gone.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I love that I was able to be so different. No bitching at him for things that have no bearing on me anymore. No nitpicking.

You're my hero. I really mean that.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I don't know what we are doing. I closed the bathroom door at one point earlier in the day because he was peeing with no consciousness of my presence. He was in his underwear at the end of the night as if that was just so normal.

LOL. Well crafted enticements based on very sophisticated man-logic! Accident...I think not.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I dunno. I am looking at a place tomorrow.

I understand what I love about the idea of having my family together because, even with all of the weirdness and ambiguity, we fit today. We laughed, we managed the kids, we kept it positive for the most part and together...

For now, there is no new normal. I am floating in outer space. I don't long for him but I do feel a bit lonely tonight.

This is beautiful A&K. You're on a path. It's a process. I'm sorry it feels lonely. From where I sit this looks like a pretty amazing day.

I'm guessing you don't want to get your hopes up. Caution and common sense are good. Looking at a place today is good. But do something for yourself today and let yourself feel good about yesterday.
I feel like cr*p. I feel so lonely. A sprinkler head broke at 5am and water was gushing and crashing down hard on the roof. I didn't know what it was at first. I felt so "single mom." I was glad my kids weren't here. I had one of those movie moments of all the weight I'll lift and catastrophes I'll manage on my own.

Yesterday took too much out of me. I think of my kids having this rootless, limbo feeling and it pains me for them. The joy on their little faces when I said I would put them to bed at daddy's just haunts me. They want their family together.

And, I can only be around him, I think, because I can know that the can of worms will never be opened, that I will never have to trust him again, share my body and soul with him again. I can shove all of the pain and torment away and be this other person, knowing that I'm safe because the married "we" is over and now we are something else, something rather shallow to me...
something fun and light and honest to a point but he'll never know how my insides have been turned inside out.

RSF- I'll answer your post a little later. But I will say, I think he peed with the door open just like he passed gas in front of me because he's lazy and it is nice to just let it all hang out. But if that is intended to be enticing, he may want to try another angle.

I'm so sad this morning, crying, and I have to go get the kids from him and take them to school. Fake it... crazy
It's OK. This too shall pass. Some moments are hard, reminding us how strong we are.xxx
K
Originally Posted By: Kalni
It's OK. This too shall pass. Some moments are hard, reminding us how strong we are.xxx
K


Thanks. I know you know.
cry dammit. how is a woman supposed to function like this? smirk
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
RSF- I'll answer your post a little later. But I will say, I think he peed with the door open just like he passed gas in front of me because he's lazy and it is nice to just let it all hang out. But if that is intended to be enticing, he may want to try another angle.

I didn't say it was a winning strategy, or even that it was smart. How about primitive? I still think it's more than just laziness...regardless, probably not that important right now.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm so sad this morning, crying, and I have to go get the kids from him and take them to school. Fake it... crazy

If I were there right now maybe I could belch or fart to cheer you up...huh? ;-)
Oh, stop...you're turning me on just talking about it. LOL

in all seriousness, I don't mind the less savory bodily functions if i'm getting the more desirable stuff too.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, stop...you're turning me on just talking about it. LOL

in all seriousness, I don't mind the less savory bodily functions if I'm getting the more desirable stuff too.

understood smile
S7 had an over the top tantrum this morning at h's. I finally got it under control. H suggested we drop the kids off together and then go have breakfast. I said I need to go to the market to get them lunches and bring them back to the school. H said that shouldn't take too long and told me where he'd be. I said I've got a lot to do. He looked surprised and offended. He even challenged me a little and said "well, you know where I'll be. Or I guess I'll see you later."

I can't tell if something is happening here...

I don't know if we are ready to even talk about it overtly but I would kind of like to ask "what do you want."

I do feel like we're speaking different languages and I'm either misreading or missing something. Or perhaps we are both just ambivilant and giving mixed messages.

Thoughts?
Quote:
I don't know if we are ready to even talk about it overtly but I would kind of like to ask "what do you want."


NO!

Do you really know what you want right now?

Quote:
I said I've got a lot to do. He looked surprised and offended.


Let him think long and hard over his coffee about what he is doing, missing out on and how it effects the kids. You stay busy. Don't rescue him.

Long way from being over. Patience.
Aaah, Coach, you knew that I was summoning you.

I don't know what I want. I do know that at a minimum, if I were going to treat him as a romantic prospect, I would want to know that he was out of his we are done no matter what phase and if we ML it's a "habit" or "mistake", or that I am like slumming for him when he's got so many prospects.

Back to already being dead. It is so hard to just let of of this boil under the surface and not take the lid off. But, even yesterday when he expressed his desire for us to reveal everything, I feared I was being set up because he just can't stand not knowing what I'm up to romantically. I'm not going to pour my guts out just to assuage his angst and satisfy his ego.

Frankly, I don't think if we ever did reconcile that I would even want to go there...just call it a long extended lost weekend. wink

how do I see that look on his face and get a sense that I am potentially missing my chance??? So silly. Mornings are tough. Take a shower. Take care of business. Go look at an apartment...whew...keep going.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Signs that he is coming out of his fog (erasing overtly self-absorbed and thoughtless photos from facebook, referencing a feeling of complete disassociation from his experience of living at rich people's house-feels like it wasn't real)...still pretty obsessed with rock star and plans to work with him more


I've been following your thread for a while A&K. Your H reminds me of mine in so many ways.

Mine is currently living the life of the rich & famous and not at all worried that I don't care how long he stays away. Our relationship had improved a lot this past year, especially in the 6 months before he left on his business trip. It was stunning to me how quickly and completely he detached from me once he was at the "all your ego can eat buffet".

This old country song has been going through my mind lately:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGWT_3NOp5o

"You were mine for just awhile,
Now you're putting on the style,
And you never once looked back,
To your home across the track,

Pick me up on your way down,
When you're blue and all alone,
When their glamour starts to bore you,
Come on back where you belong"



Except this simple, country girl will not be here waiting for him.
Ya, well, now he's posting pictures of me and the kids on his FB page...

Laugh, cry...not sure what to do.

Dudess, are you a West Coaster?

I'm shocked that H has been feasting at the "all your ego can eat buffet" for a while now and is still chasing my tail at all.

What do you make of this sort of turn here (disassociating from the fantasy life and coming down to earth a bit)?
No sugar in his coffee at breakfast.
Originally Posted By: Coach
No sugar in his coffee at breakfast.


Damn Coach. I know I'm supposed to just "get it" but let me guess, he's not getting any action elsewhere? Or do you mean he's not getting the sugar only I can give him?

Important distinction, yes?

Oh, interestingly, H has made NO moves (other than slapping my butt yesterday which I let slide) but even on our movie date, he made no play...
I'm from the Mountain West.

Well . . . did your H leave the buffet voluntarily? Did he have a change of heart while he was there?

I don't think my H forms truly close attachments to people. It can look like it sometimes, but events like I've just seen show otherwise.

My H does not have genuine pride in himself in so many ways, certainly not as a husband and a father. His actions don't merit it. I think he is very dependent on the outside applause to keep him feeling okay. In a marriage, inevitably, there will be some behavior you don't applaud, and that's when the trouble starts.

I think my H craves the stability and security of being married and having a home. It's something he never really had. I don't know if my H will eventually want to come home. If he does, I think gucci is right - people need a crisis to make major changes. That's one of many reasons I won't be here.


Q: Do you mean he's not getting the sugar only I can give him?


A: Ya, well, now he's posting pictures of me and the kids on his FB page...
The Guess Who-

Lonely feeling deep inside
Find a corner where I can hide
Silent footsteps crowding me
Sudden darkness but I can see

No sugar tonight in my coffee
No sugar tonight in my tea
No sugar to stand beside me
No sugar to run with me

(Dat’n-doo-dow-dow-dat’n-doo-dow...)

In the silence of her mind
Quiet movements where I can find
Grabbing for me with her eyes
Now I’m falling from her skies

No sugar tonight in my coffee
No sugar tonight in my tea
No sugar to stand beside me
No sugar to run with me

(Dat’n-doo-dow-dow-dat’n-doo-dow...)

grin
Originally Posted By: Dudess
I'm from the Mountain West.

Well . . . did your H leave the buffet voluntarily? Did he have a change of heart while he was there?

I don't think my H forms truly close attachments to people. It can look like it sometimes, but events like I've just seen show otherwise.

My H does not have genuine pride in himself in so many ways, certainly not as a husband and a father. His actions don't merit it. I think he is very dependent on the outside applause to keep him feeling okay. In a marriage, inevitably, there will be some behavior you don't applaud, and that's when the trouble starts.

I think my H craves the stability and security of being married and having a home. It's something he never really had. I don't know if my H will eventually want to come home. If he does, I think gucci is right - people need a crisis to make major changes. That's one of many reasons I won't be here.


Painfully similar. More later.
Originally Posted By: Coach


Q: Do you mean he's not getting the sugar only I can give him?


A: Ya, well, now he's posting pictures of me and the kids on his FB page...




whistle
Hope you're doing OK smile
Yep, doing ok right now. Thanks. cool
Posted By: aliveandkicking Dudess - 09/22/09 04:28 PM
Originally Posted By: Dudess

Well . . . did your H leave the buffet voluntarily? Did he have a change of heart while he was there?


He's still in it, all access. I have no idea what is in his heart. I see a change but I don't know why. He is still going out and will continue traveling and working with fabulous people.

Maybe it is me that changed. If I had to guess, he is seeing that I could maybe be that kind of person...I can't get into details but I think his curiosity is peeked as to what I'm doing and if I'm getting my own thing going in the biz. But, I am not going to be one of those people. I can be a little fabulous here and there but I'm not gonna be on the cover of a magazine or become a party girl. I don't know how much this is playing into his change.

It is funny, Gucci had referenced how juvenile H is and something about shaking up those roles. Now H is expressing concerns about kid related things that I used to harp on and no longer do...I will never be reckless or abandon my kids but it is kind of cool how if I lighten up and drop the ball a little, he picks it up...

Quote:
I don't think my H forms truly close attachments to people. It can look like it sometimes, but events like I've just seen show otherwise.

My H does not have genuine pride in himself in so many ways, certainly not as a husband and a father. His actions don't merit it. I think he is very dependent on the outside applause to keep him feeling okay. In a marriage, inevitably, there will be some behavior you don't applaud, and that's when the trouble starts.


Man, that is painful to read. Sucks to be them.

Quote:
I think my H craves the stability and security of being married and having a home. It's something he never really had. I don't know if my H will eventually want to come home. If he does, I think gucci is right - people need a crisis to make major changes. That's one of many reasons I won't be here.


Brutal reality. Same in my sitch. Sad.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Dudess - 09/22/09 04:39 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
I don't think my H forms truly close attachments to people. It can look like it sometimes, but events like I've just seen show otherwise.

My H does not have genuine pride in himself in so many ways, certainly not as a husband and a father. His actions don't merit it. I think he is very dependent on the outside applause to keep him feeling okay. In a marriage, inevitably, there will be some behavior you don't applaud, and that's when the trouble starts.


Man, that is painful to read. Sucks to be them.

Quote:
I think my H craves the stability and security of being married and having a home. It's something he never really had. I don't know if my H will eventually want to come home. If he does, I think gucci is right - people need a crisis to make major changes. That's one of many reasons I won't be here.


Brutal reality. Same in my sitch. Sad.

Makes me wonder sometimes what this stuff is all about. I think some of the above kind of describes where I come from. Not all but some. I want to change, I want to overcome but it's so hard. I'm realizing more and more how much the tools I have to manage life define what I am capable of. That doesn't mean I can't change or acquire new tools but just getting to the point of understanding is so so hard. Then making the changes, well, here I am and we see how that's going. Anyway, it's tough to be on either end of this stuff.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dudess - 09/22/09 04:55 PM
Quote:
Makes me wonder sometimes what this stuff is all about. I think some of the above kind of describes where I come from. Not all but some. I want to change, I want to overcome but it's so hard. I'm realizing more and more how much the tools I have to manage life define what I am capable of. That doesn't mean I can't change or acquire new tools but just getting to the point of understanding is so so hard. Then making the changes, well, here I am and we see how that's going. Anyway, it's tough to be on either end of this stuff.


Good stuff RSF...when you see it, you CAN do something about it.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Boys? - 09/22/09 07:36 PM
So, today, H has a picture posted on FB of a beautiful woman who I am pretty sure is just a friend. He wishes her a happy birthday and it is uploaded from his phone, looks like they were at a coffee shop...no I didn't spend long on it.

I feel f*cked with a little. Ya think?

When we have our talk, I think I am going to suggest we "unfriend" each other but it has actually been a cool way to see what is going on or peak interest. So juvenile.

He had attempted to chat with me last night and I saw it this morning.

Focus...AK...focus.
Posted By: Coach Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 07:42 PM
Quote:
So, today, H has a picture posted on FB of a beautiful woman who I am pretty sure is just a friend. He wishes her a happy birthday and it is uploaded from his phone, looks like they were at a coffee shop...no I didn't spend long on it.

I feel f*cked with a little. Ya think?



Don't take the bait.

Maybe you need to put some photos up on your FB page. cool
Posted By: orangedog Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 07:49 PM
FB ugh!!

I remember what a punch in the gut it was when She unfriended me and changed her status to Single (while I was still living there!) and what a hissy fit she had when I unfriended her BFF. Yes so juvenile.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 07:54 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
So, today, H has a picture posted on FB of a beautiful woman who I am pretty sure is just a friend. He wishes her a happy birthday and it is uploaded from his phone, looks like they were at a coffee shop...no I didn't spend long on it.

I feel f*cked with a little. Ya think?



Don't take the bait.



Maybe you need to put some photos up on your FB page. cool



a) my power is in what he doesn't know

b) I have married as my status (as does he) but unlike him, I would be embarrassed to be overt and involve our friends and family by exposing them to OP.

c) I did post a picture...of me. That got me a text, an email and a stuttering phone call followed by a barrage of intermittent inquiries regarding both my personal and professional life...most of which I did not answer.

And yes I was fully clothed. grin


Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 07:57 PM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
FB ugh!!

I remember what a punch in the gut it was when She unfriended me and changed her status to Single (while I was still living there!) and what a hissy fit she had when I unfriended her BFF. Yes so juvenile.




Yep. The only reason I haven't unfriended him is the drama factor. But really, it is silly for him to have "married" on there and pictures of OW and their suggestive comments...stupid stuff. I just hate looking like I condone it by being one of his "friends."

FB has its plusses and minuses.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:07 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
So, today, H has a picture posted on FB of a beautiful woman who I am pretty sure is just a friend. He wishes her a happy birthday and it is uploaded from his phone, looks like they were at a coffee shop...no I didn't spend long on it.

I feel f*cked with a little. Ya think?

When we have our talk, I think I am going to suggest we "unfriend" each other but it has actually been a cool way to see what is going on or peak interest. So juvenile.

He had attempted to chat with me last night and I saw it this morning.

Focus...AK...focus.

Seems stupid to upload a picture taken with someone and wish them a happy birthday so I would assume it's a provocation on his part...but you don't have to bite. My reco would be to not unfriend unless you just can't take it. Keep taking the high road with everything you do and post on fb. It will serve you well in the end. It's a great way to show him how your livin without going over the top...and you know he is watching. Resist the urge to go tit-for-tat or react...but I'm just another schmo smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:15 PM
Yep, I've gotten adept at being subtle and respectful of myself.

I have actually made clear to H that my private life won't be visible on FB. And, it is true. Any funny business is top secret. I believe it is called class. It also is very provocative...he hates not knowing. That's why he suggested we just let it all out.

Anyway, thanks for helping me stay on track. I'm sure I've got way less game than h thinks I do. smirk
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:18 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yep. The only reason I haven't unfriended him is the drama factor. But really, it is silly for him to have "married" on there and pictures of OW and their suggestive comments...stupid stuff. I just hate looking like I condone it by being one of his "friends."

You gotta do whats right for you...but here's my opinion. People who matter will totally get that you're taking the high road, that you're above all of the bs. His actions are transparent...he's dancing on stage in his underwear and doesn't even know it. (IMHO)
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:22 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Yep. The only reason I haven't unfriended him is the drama factor. But really, it is silly for him to have "married" on there and pictures of OW and their suggestive comments...stupid stuff. I just hate looking like I condone it by being one of his "friends."

You gotta do whats right for you...but here's my opinion. People who matter will totally get that you're taking the high road, that you're above all of the bs. His actions are transparent...he's dancing on stage in his underwear and doesn't even know it. (IMHO)


so true! Even his friends have said things to me in that vein. Thanks for the chuckle.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:27 PM
Truth is, I get flustered deep down when we spend family time together. I struggle as we all do with letting it be and not grasping, manipulating, jumping the gun. I am actually very impressed that I can juggle so many balls at once with him.

Ultimately...I need to figure out what I'm going to do now. School? Work? Which path...that is what I need to focus on.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Truth is, I get flustered deep down when we spend family time together. I struggle as we all do with letting it be and not grasping, manipulating, jumping the gun. I am actually very impressed that I can juggle so many balls at once with him.

I'm serious when I say I'm impressed. I'm not just feeding you bs. My sitch is ridiculously simple and I can't make it 24 hours without botching it.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Ultimately...I need to figure out what I'm going to do now. School? Work? Which path...that is what I need to focus on.

OK. I'm actually excited about these options. When you brought up the need to tackle this the other day I was feeling it like a burden or something to put off. Like it was somehow in conflict with other things you're doing. Duh, it's not. You need this...it's a exciting.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 08:49 PM
Quote:
I need to figure out what I'm going to do now. School? Work? Which path...that is what I need to focus on.


Why not ring your professor friend up? Part of the job description, that, and those pointy-heads seem to do it an awful lot.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 09:28 PM
Quote:
OK. I'm actually excited about these options. When you brought up the need to tackle this the other day I was feeling it like a burden or something to put off. Like it was somehow in conflict with other things you're doing. Duh, it's not. You need this...it's a exciting.


Well, I'm glad you're excited! grin I am too but I don't do well with too many options and it is wiiiiiide open. A blessing and a curse.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 09:30 PM
Quote:
I'm serious when I say I'm impressed. I'm not just feeding you bs. My sitch is ridiculously simple and I can't make it 24 hours without botching it.


Thanks. I appreciate it. It has been monumentally difficult. There is no way but straight through. This is what life is about. As for your self-deprecating comments, enough. You'll make it. It is impossible until you have the lightbulb moment and I think you may have had it today. Raise your expectations of yourself. If I can do it, you can.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Boys? - 09/22/09 09:31 PM
Originally Posted By: SmileysPerson
Quote:
I need to figure out what I'm going to do now. School? Work? Which path...that is what I need to focus on.


Why not ring your professor friend up? Part of the job description, that, and those pointy-heads seem to do it an awful lot.


Well helllloooooo friend. Will do.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Gianter Balls! - 09/22/09 11:39 PM
Fo real...I just emailed H specifics about kid pick up tomorrow (his day) and he emailed and said he's really sick and hopes he's better then.

He f*cking posted a picture of that chick he was out with today on FB where he knew I would see it and now he's going to be "too sick"...

ROFL
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 01:47 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Fo real...I just emailed H specifics about kid pick up tomorrow (his day) and he emailed and said he's really sick and hopes he's better then.

He f*cking posted a picture of that chick he was out with today on FB where he knew I would see it and now he's going to be "too sick"...

ROFL

I need to coach him a bit. Seems like he's working with a limited playbook here.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 01:55 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Fo real...I just emailed H specifics about kid pick up tomorrow (his day) and he emailed and said he's really sick and hopes he's better then.

He f*cking posted a picture of that chick he was out with today on FB where he knew I would see it and now he's going to be "too sick"...

ROFL

I need to coach him a bit. Seems like he's working with a limited playbook here.


Oh, he can dig himself into his own hole just fine, I think. wink
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 02:01 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh, he can dig himself into his own hole just fine, I think. wink

LOL...Imagine the whole the two of us could dig together ;-)
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 03:12 PM
Is Private Messaging disabled on this forum??

Sometimes you just need one ear and not many for feedback or to share a laugh.

Bummer if it is:( I couldn't figure out how to do it.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 04:17 PM
Ya, there's no PM.

FB-> DB fans-> Alive Kicking
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 06:32 PM
got it...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 07:37 PM
Text from H last night striking conversation (I didn't answer)...

Text from him today inviting me to lunch. I said I can't but we can plan another day...

I'm still ruminating over what my next step will be for me...school, work, locale etc.
Posted By: Coach Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 07:41 PM
Quote:
I'm still ruminating over what my next step will be for me...school, work, locale etc.


What a incredible opportunity for you.

"you do the world no good by living small."
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 07:48 PM
Hey Coach, want to make the decisions for me? grin
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 08:20 PM
I'll trade you?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 08:55 PM
What? Someone who wont leave you alone but insists that they don't want you and are prancing around with other people??

Naaa, you are getting straight up and honest communication. You have way more to work with than you know. You just need to get a grip.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 09:22 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
What? Someone who wont leave you alone but insists that they don't want you and are prancing around with other people??

Naaa, you are getting straight up and honest communication. You have way more to work with than you know. You just need to get a grip.

I see hints of positive in your sitch, maybe I'm naive.

I have honest communication from a W moving 180 degrees away from me...in the opposite direction with not a hint that I have a chance AND I get to remind myself everyday that's all my fault.

maybe the grass is always greener.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 09:34 PM
Quote:
I have honest communication from a W moving 180 degrees away from me...in the opposite direction with not a hint that I have a chance AND I get to remind myself everyday that's all my fault.


This makes me want to bang my head against a wall but ok. smirk

Quote:
I see hints of positive in your sitch, maybe I'm naive.


Ya, hints. I think there's more hope in yours because she's being straightforward so you can actually meet her needs right now (even though you don't like it), plus, you are working on you.

In my sitch we are both still throwing darts at moving targets.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 09:43 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
In my sitch we are both still throwing darts at moving targets.

Looks straight forward from where I stand. The hints mean that he's paying attention, he's doing all kinds of stupid sh*t along the way, granted, but he's eyeing the bait not swimming in the other direction. Now you go get a place, go back to school or work...doesn't even matter which...just make a solid, confident decision, keep following through and he'll be all over it...then you decide. Thats the play I'd call....just sayin.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/23/09 10:13 PM
Sounds good to me. And, in the meantime? With the invitations, texts etc?

We have to sit down and discuss how much money he is going to give me and what kind of agreement it will be (legal sep, D, verbal)...

The good news is, I'm already prepared to D.
Posted By: mindfull Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 01:07 AM
AAK! I'm coming to Newhall for a company meeting in a few weeks. Are you near there? The meeting is all work week, and I'm the only female in our company. I might need an escape!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 01:31 AM
About half an hour without traffic...could work.

You on FB?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:10 AM
Oh bloody f*cking hell. In a nutshell, I called H's to talk to S7 because he had called me.

H questioned me about why I have S7 sleeping out at his grandparents tomorrow night on a school night. I said because I have something to do. "But on a school night?" I said that I don't have babysitters and I don't usually do that but it is what it is. That if he would like to take them he can but I figured he has plans (which he does of course). He said it is a lot of moving around for them and I said that I don't like it either but they want to sleep there and I have something I need to do. He asked me if I wanted to come to a show tomorrow night. I said that I'm not sure when I will be available, plus, I don't think it would be very comfortable. He said something like "you mean women" and I said "for anyone we know."

We discussed getting together to discuss money and other logistical issues. I suggested Monday. He said tomorrow and I said I'm not sure. He said Friday and I told him I have plans...he commented "wow, you're busier than I am."

I told him I was getting a headache and wanted to get off the phone. This stuff stresses me out and we need to talk about it in a different setting. I wanted to enjoy my evening. He didn't get why and kept roping me back into the conversation (which I allowed) and I got progressively more aggravated. I told him that all I really need is for him to come up with how much he can give me so I know what I am working with and can start looking for a place and make other decisions.

He asked me what I am doing about work and mentioned other people's inquires as to why I am not working more. I told him that none of those people know me or what I have contributed to his career and that he likes to compare me to other people but I'm not interested. I said, I'm sure he'd be fine with me getting a job as a receptionist for $10 an hour and take care of the kids while he runs around with rock star but that I am sending resumes to jobs that either fit in around the kids schedule or pay enough to cover child care and also will potentially lead to some modicum of self sufficiency in the future. I was very calm the whole time but obviously aggravated.

He mentioned what a great time we had on Sunday but then something changed and he doesn't get it. I tried again to explain that this subject matter is too stressful for me to discuss willy nilly.

I told him at one point that I am just glad to be mentally doing well and that is the most important thing and that once I know how much money I'm getting, I can make the next decisions accordingly. He said he is actually shocked by how well I'm doing. I seem to be so much better off...(trap)

He told me he'll always make sure I'm taken care of. I said that while I appreciate the sentiment, I cannot rely on him anymore and I need to know how much I have to work with. He says that now but I have no idea where he'll be four years from now.

I finally got off the phone with a headache and stressed and picking up his mother for dinner (which he knew).

She and I had a decent time. Of course we talked a bit about H who she referred to as like an addict but she just can't help herself, she can't say no when he asks her for something...

Oh, prior to dinner with MIL, I texted him that I would shrug this off and have a good time and that we will figure it all out (I couldn't bear him thinking I let him ruin my night).

He responded that he cares deeply for me and he just doesn't know how to approach certain topics with me that are difficult.

I said we just make a time to discuss them when we are both prepared.

Then he says "Ok. Love always and I do admire how you are taking care of yourself."

After my dinner with his mom, I checked my email and here's the pièce de résistance...a facebook email from a woman (model looking young) searching for H and she goes into this whole weird diatribe about how she met him with rock star and he was showing pictures of his kids and someone was asking about "AK" and she was wondering if that is me because she is trying to find this cool guy she met [H]...it went on but WTF????? I just didn't respond and blocked her but it really made me sick inside and I just want to leave this town and never look back. I can't take anymore. At dinner, we were talking to the couple next to us (one of whom is a recognizable actress) and the guy starts talking about a friend of his and of course it is a close friend of H's and it is all Hollywood BS and I just have had it!!!!!! And of course, I cried all the way home and my head hurts and my heart hurts. Not because I want him but because I want to be able to divorce him in every way and start anew. And this stupid celeb sh*t is just gonna drag more drama and draw more vermin into mine and my kids lives. Aaaargh. As for the email, I was going to forward it to H and say "handle this" but my best friend made me swear I would do nothing and she thought it was very suspicious (it was f*cking weird!!!!). Boy did I have fun imagining how I could respond to this tart but I did nothing.

I think maybe his mom said something about the email (she was with me when I got it).

About 40 minutes ago H texted me asking if I'm ok (at a specific time that has significance for me relating to a friend that died...complicated story)...but really, am I ok?????? I am not answering.

Am I ok?????
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:19 AM
You are better than OK. You are fine.
K

I agree, the email was suspicious...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:26 AM
Thanks. God, I'm so dreadfully lonely right now and I have his text sitting next to me.

This girl was either really exceedingly vapid or put up to this by H or both.

I mean, she said she felt like a detective and had sent messages to the wrong women with my same name but since she had already looked for him and sent him a friend request (that she says he hadn't answered) she could have seen that I was one of his friends. It is just so twisted.

Would he stoop that low? Are girls that stupid and desperate? (I know the answer to the second one)...

I think it was some star struck ditz...
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:32 AM
Well, if he thinks you are detaching and his loosing his grip on you, could he not? This message could mean different things it could very well mean nothing AK. Forget it.

Lonely? What am I doing here? Alone is a fact, lonely is a state of mind as a dear friend of mine told me once.
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:40 AM
It is not the loneliness, really. It is the loneliness of being in subtle connection with someone while still being alone. He's got one little nail dug into me that I can't shake off...you know?

I know you know. I guess, in truth, I am not alone here. smirk
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:48 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It is not the loneliness, really. It is the loneliness of being in subtle connection with someone while still being alone. He's got one little nail dug into me that I can't shake off...you know? smirk


It's the reason why I wanted the Divorce to end asap hoping that it will damage this last connection between us more and make it weak. But, the connection is there and now that stbxH asked for a serious reconcilliation effort, he used exactly that, that we have a very strong bond between us that cant break. Funny, he felt it too but did a good job trying to kill it for the last 3 years.

Anyway, AK, we are humans, I figure years later, we will stil have a tiny weak point for the men we loved and had babies with. That deosnt mean they will have a saying or control over our lives. Stop fighting yourself and ...relax. You need some sleep and optimism. Stop thinking so hard.
K
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 07:54 AM
Quote:
Stop thinking so hard.


LOL. Okay. But you must admit, the email was a bit much.

You are so right.

I read up on your sitch a little. I don't even post cuz I have no clue. But you are an amazing lady and I really believe you will be alright.

Good night. smile
Posted By: tristan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 11:21 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Boy did I have fun imagining how I could respond to this tart but I did nothing. [/b]



Well done.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 11:42 AM
I'm really sorry you had a bad night frown
Posted By: The Wifey Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 02:37 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


He asked me what I am doing about work and mentioned other people's inquires as to why I am not working more.

How about, I don't care what other people ask about and i am none of their business.

Quote:
He mentioned what a great time we had on Sunday but then something changed and he doesn't get it. I tried again to explain that this subject matter is too stressful for me to discuss willy nilly.


He doesn't get it? That is the understatement of the year.

Quote:
I told him at one point that I am just glad to be mentally doing well and that is the most important thing and that once I know how much money I'm getting, I can make the next decisions accordingly. He said he is actually shocked by how well I'm doing. I seem to be so much better off...(trap)


Let him continue to be shocked. Yeah. They all imagine we are going to sink into a heap and not be able to function without them. Granted, most of us did at first - but not any more, baby.

Quote:
He told me he'll always make sure I'm taken care of. I said that while I appreciate the sentiment, I cannot rely on him anymore and I need to know how much I have to work with. He says that now but I have no idea where he'll be four years from now.
Not only that, but didn't you have times when he was off on his little ego trips and you were short on money? More than once, if I remember right.

Quote:
I finally got off the phone with a headache and stressed and picking up his mother for dinner (which he knew).

She and I had a decent time. Of course we talked a bit about H who she referred to as like an addict but she just can't help herself, she can't say no when he asks her for something...

Hmmm, a mother that can't help herself with her adult son? Sounds like a definite pattern. He gets his desires no matter what. Doesn't produce great marriage material, does it, Mom?

Quote:
Oh, prior to dinner with MIL, I texted him that I would shrug this off and have a good time and that we will figure it all out (I couldn't bear him thinking I let him ruin my night).

He responded that he cares deeply for me and he just doesn't know how to approach certain topics with me that are difficult.

I said we just make a time to discuss them when we are both prepared.

Then he says "Ok. Love always and I do admire how you are taking care of yourself."


I hope you didn't respond. You really don't need to worry about what he thought. And you know that.

Quote:
After my dinner with his mom, I checked my email and here's the pièce de résistance...a facebook email from a woman (model looking young) searching for H and she goes into this whole weird diatribe about how she met him with rock star and he was showing pictures of his kids and someone was asking about "AK" and she was wondering if that is me because she is trying to find this cool guy she met [H]...it went on but WTF????? I just didn't respond and blocked her but it really made me sick inside and I just want to leave this town and never look back. I can't take anymore. At dinner, we were talking to the couple next to us (one of whom is a recognizable actress) and the guy starts talking about a friend of his and of course it is a close friend of H's and it is all Hollywood BS and I just have had it!!!!!! And of course, I cried all the way home and my head hurts and my heart hurts. Not because I want him but because I want to be able to divorce him in every way and start anew. And this stupid celeb sh*t is just gonna drag more drama and draw more vermin into mine and my kids lives. Aaaargh. As for the email, I was going to forward it to H and say "handle this" but my best friend made me swear I would do nothing and she thought it was very suspicious (it was f*cking weird!!!!). Boy did I have fun imagining how I could respond to this tart but I did nothing.


I definitely think he made it happen. You don't need the drama. Do not even say anything to him.


Quote:
About 40 minutes ago H texted me asking if I'm ok (at a specific time that has significance for me relating to a friend that died...complicated story)...but really, am I ok?????? I am not answering.

Am I ok?????

No need to respond, hon. Because he knows you are doing ok. And Ok without him. He is still deep, deep in the fog.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 05:37 PM
Well, we just spoke and he pretty much agreed to the amount I am asking for. Obviously, this is the biggest issue on my plate so it is a relief.

Then he asked me to go to lunch and I think I am going to but I told him I need to call him back cuz I have to figure a few things out (me being so busy and all). crazy
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 05:42 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, we just spoke and he pretty much agreed to the amount I am asking for. Obviously, this is the biggest issue on my plate so it is a relief.

Then he asked me to go to lunch and I think I am going to but I told him I need to call him back cuz I have to figure a few things out (me being so busy and all). crazy

NICE! smile
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 05:44 PM
Really? I feel like a nut. If I were reading that, I'd want to slap me. smirk
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 05:51 PM
well, I'm guessing it feels pretty good to have the $ thing off your mind. I don't think anyone should have to sweat their survival like that after dedicating themselves to a relationship and family for such a long time. So maybe that put you in a more receptive mood for lunch...good that you pushed it off. Keep him interested and listening.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 05:58 PM
But I f*cking hate him. grin
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 06:25 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
But I f*cking hate him. grin

That's OK :0
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/24/09 11:18 PM
Weird lunch. Hard to find light conversation under the circumstances. A little flirting, a little banter, a little arm pinch (which I joked was turning me on too much). Lots of references to how good I look.

A friend of H's happened to walk into restaurant and I asked H what he knows. He said he just knows we are not together... crazy

H invited me up to make me some tea...Asked at one point to see my six pack (I don't have one) but I told him he'd have to work a lot harder for that. Asked me for a hug, I gave him a distant one with some back tapping (friend hug) he held on and tried to get closer. After he asked if it was wrong that he liked hugging me. I didn't answer. He said "no, I think it is ok." I just let him spin around a little. He asked me if I can come out later tonight. I said I'm not sure if the timing will work out plus I don't know what I'm walking into (mutual friends etc) and that makes me uncomfortable.

I got a clear agreement regarding the amount of money.

It was an ok afternoon but wow, I am not attracted to him. WTF??

I guess it is good but it feels so sad.

I did tell him while at his place that was is strange to see my kids beds there and their little things...he said he doesn't take that for granted.

So, shooting gallery. I think I know what to do here. But, one thought. He would do just about anything I asked him to right about now. Maybe even Retrouvaille. But, my instinct is to hold off and focus on my life without him (or with him as a peripheral figure).

Retrovaille would be as much to convince me as him that there is any possible chance for us as a married couple.

I feel ok. I'm relieved about the money. It is the first step. Breathe, time to start looking for a place in earnest.


Posted By: Thinker Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 03:26 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

Retrovaille would be as much to convince me as him that there is any possible chance for us as a married couple.


As I understand it, Retro is not about convincing anyone to stay in a M. It is about improving communications and exploring what is there in a R together.

The end result is that most people (in cases where there is no active A etc) who do complete the program do decide to reconcile / stay together, but there is no hard sell during the program.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 06:04 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It is not the loneliness, really. It is the loneliness of being in subtle connection with someone while still being alone. He's got one little nail dug into me that I can't shake off...you know?

I know you know. I guess, in truth, I am not alone here. smirk


It's such a hard thing. O'dog sometimes wishes he could just leave and not have to deal with this again. But with two kids and joint interests it's just not possible. The reminder will always be there.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 06:08 AM
Yes Thinker, I mis-phrased that. I meant that I am probably as hopeless with regard to our M as H is (if not more).

But, I am in a great mood tonight. Finally gaining some clarity.

H texted me about some psycho bimbo contacting him on FB saying that she told his wife everything...and so on. LOL. I am soooo glad I did nothing last night. H called me and this led to an interesting conversation in which he was extremely apologetic and was surprised I hadn't said anything. I told him that we are separated and if I have an issue, I'll deal with it. I don't want drama. He was really freaked out and kept apologizing and acknowledging that he needs to be more careful and explaining. I kept it light but straight forward. He went on to invite me to a show tonight (4th invitation), I told him again that I didn't know if the timing would work and I am also uncomfortable not knowing what I am walking into. He suggested I meet him for a drink after. I just said I didn't know.

He texted me that he is so sorry that I had to deal with that girl and I didn't deserve that. I haven't answered. I am not going to meet him for a drink. My phone died a bit ago and though I am charging it, I don't want to respond to him...oh, he just called...

What the heck is going on?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 06:15 AM
Oh, I meant I'm gaining clarity with regard to school etc.

Not with H... wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 11:49 AM
Ok. I am a total f*cking idiot (feels that way at least). H wanted to chat tonight (computer)...we were flirting and having a good time. He said something about me coming over and getting a massage and I LOL'd...didn't take any of it seriously but he pursued and eventually, when he said something about how strongly he's feeling, I asked, "what are you feeling?" He answered "Just really feeling like having you here now, can't explain more than that" and when I said if I come over I'm wearing padlocked undies. He said "not about that."

And he asked for the "fun AK who would drive over in the middle of the night"...so I surprised him and drove over.

Long story short, he was quite serious about the massage and he gave me one (with a few boundary violations but I reigned him in) and then I gave him a very neutral back massage and then we laid down and he was caressing me and I put my hand on his chest to reciprocate. And then we started to fall asleep until he went for it. And I kept reiterating that I had limits (blah blah blah) and things progressed and we ended up doing the do (can't say ML) and then in the middle of it, he gets weird and sort of distant and I asked what was wrong and he said "I'm just thinking" in a sort of befuddled tone and I wanted to just die. It was awful and I started to cry (yikes) and he felt like crap and then eventually we pulled it together. After, he showered and then I did and when I got into bed, there was a flippin pillow between H and my spot. I laid down and he started talking about business and mundane things and I just couldn't take how lonely I felt. I got up and said I was leaving. And when he asked why, I lost my sh*t. I told him that you don't seduce someone and then decide it is "weird" midway through. He said he didn't think that we'd have sex...and I said that he straight out seduced me, he had no thought that we might have sex??? He said he thought we'd "mess around"...is this f*cking high school? I went off...so a BJ isn't sex? But intercourse is a huge issue? I told him that I think that he wants everything. That it was just a conquest because I haven't been giving him attention. That once he was in, he was satiated. That a one night stand would get treated better. That I felt like a two dollar whore. I don't think I skipped anything. I told him I feel like he wants me to be his friend (he nodded yes) and be here for him and raise his kids with him and know that I'm not f*cking someone else.

What a nightmare. I stepped right into it. He got me with the "fun AK" comment. Me, I'm fun, I can be fun...

He called me as I was driving home (4 am) and he kept saying he didn't mean for that to happen. I said, if this is how you operate you are going to end up with your d*ck accidentally in a lot of people. Finally we agreed to forget it happened.

So, I'm disgusted. I shouldn't have gone over there. I should have stuck to doing my own thing and I feel like utter sh*t right now. Plus, I have to get up in two hours to pick up my kids and take them to school. I scr*wed myself. Aaargh.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 01:21 PM
Okay, slow down keemosabe. You made a call, turns out not to have been a good call, but you made it.

Alert the media: Humans are fallible.

Lesson-learned; now you know: There's a line you can't safely cross. "It" isn't there, whatever the "it" is that was required in that situation.

I agree with the implication of your assessment "it was just a conquest because I haven't been giving him attention" -- it's that power-shift thing I'd written about a couple threads ago and am experiencing now. It has to be about Monsoor, so when it wasn't, he had to take action and turn on the Pepe LePew charm; when it was (i.e., when you were "happily" married and (wo)manning the Home Front), he didn't have to lift a finger and could focus on all the other things that had to be all about Le Shmedlap.

Okay.

So you're a Left-Behind who, in spite of everything, still digs the Wayward. Take a number, right? You know that about yourself now, and you know what it means in terms of all future interactions.

Give yourself two breaks and call someone in the morning.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 04:18 PM
Well, 4 hours of sleep. Woohoo. Got my mom to take my kids to school.

Boy did that suck.

When I look back, I kind of see how H genuinely confuses himself.

I MUST be the grown up here. I wanted to be the fun AK and he isn't even close to man enough to handle his responsibility.

So, I'm dusting myself off and I'll be ok.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 05:03 PM
You are the "fun AK," friend. But that doesn't mean you have to be that for him. You rock; keep on rocking. You got your mojo workin' -- but it don't have to work for him.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 05:13 PM
Thanks SP, always a laugh.

I am actually feeling bad that I tore him a new one. He's clueless. Whatever feelings came up for him are as valid as my feelings. I just was doing something I already felt I didn't want to do, so I have to own that...when he got tentative and weird, I felt completely duped but that was from vantage point.

Bottom line is that I need to draw the line where I want it drawn and stop trying to prove something to him.

Anyway, onward.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 05:26 PM
For better or worse, I sent this to H.

I'm sorry I went off on you. Your feelings were valid, just the timing was very painful. I suppose you don't always know why you're doing what you're doing or want what you want. I felt like a lamb led to slaughter but I'm not. I'm a big girl.

If you want to talk about it, we can or if you want to put it behind us, I'm ready for that. I just want to acknowledge that I see your side.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 06:13 PM
Yes, you will be OK.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/25/09 10:06 PM
Wow, this hangover sucks and I didn't even drink. cry grin

H emailed me back thanking me for my email, saying we should put it behind us and he feels like a shmuck.

My impulse was to fix that but I let it go. I have no control over how he experiences our time together (duh...learn, re-learn)

We spoke because S9 isn't feeling well. I was so normal and amicable, it kind of weirds me out.

Oh well, gonna try to drop down for a nap.

I sure feel like I blew it last night...in so many ways. OMG...that sounds so bad. LOL. At least I have my sense of humor.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 12:32 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I sure feel like I blew it last night...

uh huh! ;-)

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
LOL. At least I have my sense of humor.

You goof up, make mistakes and still find a way to laugh at yourself...sign of very strong character and someone who is comfortable in their skin! smile

Not that you did anything wrong of course :-O
Posted By: mindfull Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 12:45 AM
AAK - LOL! Oh, God! (sorry, laughing WITH you, not AT you!)

I was just thinking, after I read about your little excursion last night... How appropriate your Subject is today! LOL

Hey, in case it makes you feel better. I went out w/girlfriends last night for Chocolate Night at a great restaurant. I decided champaigne sounded superb w/chocolate. I had ONLY two glasses... Ended up telling one of my friends I thought she was too ugly for her husband. (No way to take that sh*t back!)

At least you mess up, and are still NICE!
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 12:51 AM
Originally Posted By: mindfull
Ended up telling one of my friends I thought she was too ugly for her husband. (No way to take that sh*t back!)

That is awesome!! Can't get more mindfull than that...LOL! (with you, not at you)
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 12:57 AM
Ahhh- "MIndful," when we fall, we fall hard.

I didn't even have alcohol to blame my behavior on! But, I get it, all the sweet talking worked...what can I say...even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day as they say...score 1 for H...

we're talking amicably.

i feel like a truck ran over my head.

but it's all good. keeping my PMA... sick mad crazy grin
Posted By: mindfull Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 01:00 AM
RedSox -

Yea, the passing at DROP OFF (at school) this am was interesting.

Feel free to laugh AT me. Maybe I'll learn to shut the he!l up BEFORE I talk mindLESS!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 01:08 AM
Quote:
Yea, the passing at DROP OFF (at school) this am was interesting.


shocked

I call it "foot in mouth disease" and I've got it bad.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 01:27 PM
for me it's a lose connection between my mouth and my brain.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 03:11 PM
Quote:
I sure feel like I blew it last night...in so many ways


Oh suuuuure -- rub it in.

wink

Sounds like you're already regrouping. Which is cool.
Posted By: Coach Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 04:11 PM
Quote:
I didn't even have alcohol to blame my behavior on! But, I get it, all the sweet talking worked...what can I say...even a broken clock gets the time right twice a day as they say...score 1 for H...


My POV. You want this marriage to work. Your husband gave you something you have needed in your marriage for a long time - he gave you some financial security. As soon as he told you that he would give you the support money you asked for you backslid. Make him work, show you and provide, before you give him the milk. A drowning person grasps at straws, a strong confident woman swims.
Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 04:36 PM
I agree Coach. And, as my friend pointed out to me, he's been chipping away at me. She could see it coming...because I had said I wanted him to ask me out and he was asking me out over and over. He said words that implied that he was closer to where I would want him if I was going to have any kind of relationship which would be starting anew and honest. He was saying that he just wanted me there with him and posting pictures of the family and his vibe had changed. But, the sad reality is that our sex life was so jacked up in the M and there was so much damage done, while I have worked so hard and made so many changes that would lead to me experiencing it differently, in the 10 months since he left, he has done nothing that would keep his demons at bay. He hasn't changed. So, to have an intimate experience (despite the fact that I think, "he's a guy, he'll dig this") in reality, he is a child emotionally and he can't handle the intimacy.

So, back to reality. Yes, the money thing gave me a sense of relief mostly because I can start my own process. And, I know full well that he may drop the ball but it is a start. I think it was a factor but not the factor in my caving in. I think I caved because he gave me what I've said I wanted...a lot of attention, a lot of invitations and a very simple honest profession of his desire to be with me. That was huge because up until then, he's tried to be so cool and aloof about his invitations.

Anyway, I am pulling it together. I hate that the old feelings of wanting our family together are bombarding me (especially in my dreams)...but I'm functioning with the brutal reality.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 06:09 PM
Not shockingly, getting a slightly colder shoulder from H.

Only thing worse than no sex for an already deceased relationship is bad, weird sex.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/26/09 09:25 PM
I feel like total sh*t today...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 05:36 AM
Feeling better. Just because I must. smirk

Tonight spent some time alone with S9, I was in a pretty great mood somehow. Perhaps just grateful for some alone time with him. He was a wreck. Wouldn't use the men's room alone in the book store we were at...literally cried. After, we were talking and I asked him what is really going on with him and he told me that he thought he was okay with only seeing daddy sometimes but he's not. That he wants daddy to live with us...aaargh. My poor sweet boy. I tried to work through it with him. And I pointed out that it is great that he is able to connect what is happening inside him with his feelings, that can take a long time for some people. And, I did encourage him to talk to his dad. He is lucky enough to have a dad who will listen and is available to him. I didn't want to pressure him but I did encourage him to talk to him IF he feels comfortable doing so.

Reading Thinker's thread, I really relate to these opposing feelings...I want my family together but H is no longer my leading man. So, as S9 whimpered about wanting his dad back, I wondered what the heck would I do if somehow H wanted back, would I be the one breaking my kids' hearts? I know, I am no where near that point but then again, it is coming very close and H is texting and emailing again and I wonder if knowing that I am looking for a new place for just me and the boys isn't weighing on him.

He texted me from dinner with a mutual friend that said friend and his wife have "already filed" and how weird it is. To be a fly on that wall. Male friend has a WAW and he has lost 18 lbs (already a thin guy) and bought her a $20,000 piece of jewelry and has been grasping to save the marriage (of course MC sealed the deal mad)...so, what was their conversation like? This is a guy who used to subtly come on to me and looked like he wished he had me for a wife. Is he commiserating with H? Or is he telling H he's a flippin' moron and if he had a wife like me who was this loyal and this hot ( grin), he'd be all over it?

Who knows? Time will tell. All I've got is this steel armor around my heart and the mantra that I am "already divorced" but I can feel the dam cracking and wont be surprised by the rushing emotional tide if this goes all the way to D.

My kids are going to be heartbroken. I am ready. I'll feel it but, I can handle it.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 06:53 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I want my family together but H is no longer my leading man. So, as S9 whimpered about wanting his dad back, I wondered what the heck would I do if somehow H wanted back, would I be the one breaking my kids' hearts?

Wow! that is really heavy! I know you have done and will continue to do everything you can. You will look back on this time with pride no matter the outcome. Doesn't make it any easier now though frown
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:06 PM
I'm alright.

I am going to a show tonight with a guy friend. I suspect he is interested in more than friends but, really, as much as I look and flirt and want to put myself out there, my heart is not really in it. I'll still have a good time, just don't want to get to that awkward moment.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:13 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I want my family together but H is no longer my leading man. So, as S9 whimpered about wanting his dad back, I wondered what the heck would I do if somehow H wanted back, would I be the one breaking my kids' hearts?

Wow! that is really heavy! I know you have done and will continue to do everything you can. You will look back on this time with pride no matter the outcome. Doesn't make it any easier now though frown


Last year I gave stxH a chance that he asked for and I was in that position. I felt I couldnt do this to my kids. Again, a year later, I face the same reality, he wants back, and he is more serious about it, but weirdly, during our convos, the kids are not mentioned as much and to be honest, I try to keep them out of my mind. It still sucks...
K
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:15 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm alright.

I am going to a show tonight with a guy friend. I suspect he is interested in more than friends but, really, as much as I look and flirt and want to put myself out there, my heart is not really in it. I'll still have a good time, just don't want to get to that awkward moment.

Yeah, but why get ahead of yourself? Have fun and go with what feels right.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:19 PM
Originally Posted By: Kalni
Last year I gave stxH a chance that he asked for and I was in that position. I felt I couldnt do this to my kids. Again, a year later, I face the same reality, he wants back, and he is more serious about it, but weirdly, during our convos, the kids are not mentioned as much and to be honest, I try to keep them out of my mind. It still sucks...

It's mind-blowing how much burden and pressure falls on the LBS. I'm sorry you're both going through it. frown It helps me though because I can understand a little better what my W has gone through since I tried to reconcile. Not much I can do but it helps to understand. I would have had no idea about so much of this if I hadn't found this forum.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:28 PM
Quote:
I face the same reality, he wants back, and he is more serious about it, but weirdly, during our convos, the kids are not mentioned as much and to be honest, I try to keep them out of my mind. It still sucks...


Yes, when it comes down to it, the kids are not enough to make the M work...and, as much as I wouldn't be able to tolerate a cr*ppy marriage for my kids "benefit," I understand that H has the right to refuse that too. That is what defuses my resentment. If he can't do it with feeling, then he doesn't serve anyone by coming back...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:29 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm alright.

I am going to a show tonight with a guy friend. I suspect he is interested in more than friends but, really, as much as I look and flirt and want to put myself out there, my heart is not really in it. I'll still have a good time, just don't want to get to that awkward moment.

Yeah, but why get ahead of yourself? Have fun and go with what feels right.


It already doesn't feel quite "right". But I'm doing going anyway... wink
Posted By: Kalni Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:33 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

Yes, when it comes down to it, the kids are not enough to make the M work...and, as much as I wouldn't be able to tolerate a cr*ppy marriage for my kids "benefit," I understand that H has the right to refuse that too. That is what defuses my resentment. If he can't do it with feeling, then he doesn't serve anyone by coming back...

My thoughts exactly. For me and him. And after a year of crap, I cant tell you that is true. No use if your heart isnt in it. My kids are worse than how they were last year... frown
K
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/27/09 07:34 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
It already doesn't feel quite "right". But I'm doing going anyway... wink

If I had a dollar for every time I ended up enjoying something that I started out feeling wrong about....
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 07:44 AM
Well, that was fun. A great show at an outdoor venue...no pressure at all from my "date." I think he is actually observant enough to recognize that I'm a world of hurt to get involved with right now. Meaning, great time, great long honest conversation and no kiss...which is sooo good because I was really hoping to avoid that.

H texted that he felt sad that I "couldn't experience this with the boys too"...(they were at a religious event)...I said "Yes. It is sad. Please give them a kiss for me). And then he proceeded to email me photos.

What are we doing here???

What the heck kind of separation is this?

We miss each other. Our kids miss having their family together. What the heck? Is there a super fabulous brilliant MC who can help us here? (SP I hope you'll let me know if you think you've struck such gold)...

I had fun tonight but no way am I ready to move on with another guy. Dating, okay but weird. I mean I don't have a clue how to be fully present with another man while my H and kids are being a family without me. No biggie. I have gotten enough attention to assure myself that I wont be alone forever without H, I don't need to pursue it now.

Tonight, at this show, before it started, what song do they play with lyrics on the screens to sing along? "I will Survive"...boy did I have fun with that.

And I will. I am aching a bit for the reconciliation that seems within reach but recognizing the overwhelming likelihood that it wont happen, I know I will be alright. I just need some hand holding here as I get closer each day to my "new normal"...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 12:17 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, that was fun. A great show at an outdoor venue...no pressure at all from my "date." I think he is actually observant enough to recognize that I'm a world of hurt to get involved with right now. Meaning, great time, great long honest conversation and no kiss...which is sooo good because I was really hoping to avoid that.

Perfect. Now how do you do this next time without worrying about it at all. Just go with it, relax, have fun??

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H texted that he felt sad that I "couldn't experience this with the boys too"...(they were at a religious event)...I said "Yes. It is sad. Please give them a kiss for me). And then he proceeded to email me photos.

What are we doing here???

What the heck kind of separation is this?

We miss each other. Our kids miss having their family together. What the heck? Is there a super fabulous brilliant MC who can help us here? (SP I hope you'll let me know if you think you've struck such gold)...

I had fun tonight but no way am I ready to move on with another guy. Dating, okay but weird. I mean I don't have a clue how to be fully present with another man while my H and kids are being a family without me. No biggie. I have gotten enough attention to assure myself that I wont be alone forever without H, I don't need to pursue it now.

Tonight, at this show, before it started, what song do they play with lyrics on the screens to sing along? "I will Survive"...boy did I have fun with that.

And I will. I am aching a bit for the reconciliation that seems within reach but recognizing the overwhelming likelihood that it wont happen, I know I will be alright. I just need some hand holding here as I get closer each day to my "new normal"...

So I thought I was the one on the extremes with the all or nothing perspective. There is a middle path here A&K. Reconciliation does seem like a very real possibility and something to be cautiously optimistic about right now. I think the challenge is to resist the temptation.

Fishing metaphor (learned this from the Red Sox Manager):

He's nibbling on the bait. If you try to set the hook now you might miss and he's gone for good or you might hook him but not well enough to get him all the way in and in the boat.

Only you can know whats right but from where I sit, I want him to have the religious experience I had when I really finally understood what was important and what my priorities were. If you meet him halfway at the early stages of guilt and sadness he may never get there. He won't have to. I know it means harder work for you in the interim frown But you have the DBizon Network behind you [visual: Verizon commercial with DBing masses standing by to support you ;-)]

* Schmo disclaimer applies
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 05:25 PM
I agree RSF. Problem is, damage is being done. My own clock is ticking. My boys are going to be devastated when we move without daddy. As I immerse myself in my own life and managing the affects of all of this on my kids, I see the space for H in my life diminishing greatly. Granted, I never thought I would speak to him again after seeing the boys in tears when he left many months ago, so who knows what I am capable of forgiving? But, as you know, there is possibly a point of no (or highly problematic) return. My kids' hearts are in the middle here.

And that is perhaps a factor overlooked in your sitch too. At some point, we aren't just seeking closure and emotionally predictability for ourselves but for our children too...
Posted By: JayMan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 05:42 PM
I am with you AaK - I have suspended my life for roughly 3 years watching WAW waffle back and forth, even after starting an A.

Time does heal all wounds, or so I thought. My amazing D9 has fiercely supported her mother, even supporting her affair "I want Mommy to be happy." Then, out of the blue last week, she said, "I wish Mommy wasn't dating. OM has ruined everything. Why do we have to do divorce? I just want everything back."

I was flabbergasted. What do you say to something like that?

I have been doing great emotionally - kids and I have been loving life, and then this!

Not much help, I know, but I can empathize.

I say keep moving forward, and don't stop. If you are going to truly and legitimately reconcile, it'll happen regardless where you are.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 07:10 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I agree RSF. Problem is, damage is being done. My own clock is ticking. My boys are going to be devastated when we move without daddy. As I immerse myself in my own life and managing the affects of all of this on my kids, I see the space for H in my life diminishing greatly. Granted, I never thought I would speak to him again after seeing the boys in tears when he left many months ago, so who knows what I am capable of forgiving? But, as you know, there is possibly a point of no (or highly problematic) return. My kids' hearts are in the middle here.

And that is perhaps a factor overlooked in your sitch too. At some point, we aren't just seeking closure and emotionally predictability for ourselves but for our children too..

So what are you coaching me to do and why? You are essentially coaching your husband. If we truly believe there is hope, what does it look like and how do we leave room for it while still taking care of ourselves and our children??
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 09:43 PM
Quote:
So what are you coaching me to do and why? You are essentially coaching your husband.


It is not really me coaching my husband cuz I don't have OM like your W. Let them fizzle out and then I can coach you.

Quote:
If we truly believe there is hope, what does it look like and how do we leave room for it while still taking care of ourselves and our children??


We do the best we can. sick
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Gianter Balls! - 09/28/09 11:11 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
So what are you coaching me to do and why? You are essentially coaching your husband.


It is not really me coaching my husband cuz I don't have OM like your W. Let them fizzle out and then I can coach you.

Quote:
If we truly believe there is hope, what does it look like and how do we leave room for it while still taking care of ourselves and our children??


We do the best we can. sick


OK, I didn't communicate that well. My sitch isn't that much different from yours. You're telling me there's hope so I'm saying if you believe in what you're saying to me, you have to find a way to take care of yourself and your boys while still leaving room for hope...ya?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 01:50 AM
4 hour convo with H today. He has a GF in Europe as I suspected and do I feel worse? NO. It is all starting to make sense. I'll report more later but I handled the whole thing so well and he is well aware that the stakes are getting higher.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 02:18 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
4 hour convo with H today. He has a GF in Europe as I suspected and do I feel worse? NO. It is all starting to make sense. I'll report more later but I handled the whole thing so well and he is well aware that the stakes are getting higher.

sigh
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 02:27 AM
Oh no. It is goooood. Trust me. It is coming out now for a reason. I have very little hope for this M. But, if there is hope, this is the narrow path that may lead to it.

If not, seriously, I am ready to move one. I'm not saying there will never be tears, but I would way rather be me than him right now. I'm clean, I'm lucid, I've hit the wall and bounced back...he doesn't know which way is up and he has some other chick in the middle of it now.

As far as I'm concerned, it sucks to be him.
Posted By: givingitmyall Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 02:33 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh no. It is goooood. Trust me. It is coming out now for a reason. I have very little hope for this M. But, if there is hope, this is the narrow path that may lead to it.

If not, seriously, I am ready to move one. I'm not saying there will never be tears, but I would way rather be me than him right now. I'm clean, I'm lucid, I've hit the wall and bounced back...he doesn't know which way is up and he has some other chick in the middle of it now.

As far as I'm concerned, it sucks to be him.


Sorry for your news, but you seem to be handling it well. And yes, nothing but down side for him.

Question is what is it you want?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 02:54 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Oh no. It is goooood. Trust me. It is coming out now for a reason. I have very little hope for this M. But, if there is hope, this is the narrow path that may lead to it.

If not, seriously, I am ready to move one. I'm not saying there will never be tears, but I would way rather be me than him right now. I'm clean, I'm lucid, I've hit the wall and bounced back...he doesn't know which way is up and he has some other chick in the middle of it now.

As far as I'm concerned, it sucks to be him.

I'd rather be you too. but that's one long conversation.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 03:38 AM
Quote:
Sorry for your news, but you seem to be handling it well. And yes, nothing but down side for him.


The news is liberating. There was a woman he was "friends" with before he left me. I had expressed my discomfort with his spending time with her and he insisted they were friends and that I was being unreasonable. That was really a rough time and I felt so insecure and crazy. Well, he blew it. He can scream until the cows come home about what a b*tch I was or how I "killed this marriage" but he and I both know full well that his actions led to the ultimate result here...that is emotional freedom for me.

Now, he has a far away lover who he can romanticize indefinitely. He's stuck. He wants me, he misses me, but he has her on his mind and she is so much more exciting than me...beautiful, famous, talented, successful...but somewhere he knows that it is fantasy. He wont have a wife in her and he wont feel the warmth and security that he has with me. Once he and I are over, where will they go with it? He can't live with her there and if she ever came here, well, we know how those relationships go. Talk about disillusionment...the exciting far away secret lover moves in and then what?

I hate that this is my life but I picked this insecure star-f*cker so I've got to face it.

Quote:
Question is what is it you want?


No clue my friend. I know that I am so thrilled that I do not have a boyfriend right now. I want to be about me for a while.

It is funny, with regard to H. I can't know if I want him. I don't know who he is. I don't know what he is or isn't capable of...I don't know what he could do to be my man again.

I feel really good. I said things without fear today. I called him on his sh*t. It may have been 4 hours wasted but, it was a stark reminder that a) I've still got something he can't quite let go of and b) WASs tend to be full of sh*t. I also validated when it was warranted and I just feel really good about how I handled it all.

His last words in our conversation, "I'm just confused." Not bad at all.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 03:57 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
His last words in our conversation, "I'm just confused."

For his sake I hope he gets unconfused quickly....he's going to wake up lonely with no family no wife and no European gf.
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 06:25 AM
Ahh, doesn't it feel good to know that you weren't crazy? Now you know for sure you can and should trust your gut. I think that alone is worth the four hours.
Posted By: Kalni Re: Well, well, f*cking well! - 09/29/09 06:48 AM
Oh dear, sounds so familiar... And your feelings echo my feelings. My stxH SAID that the truth why our family is broken to pieces IS his affair with the woman he was "just friends" with for a year before he moved out and not me being a horrible person and partner...

You are right, if there is any chance to reconcile, the truth had to come out. And the fact that he told you the truth is already a hit to "their" relationship. I think right now, it doenst matter what you really want. If you keep being strong and determined about YOU and your life, he will have to move quickly. THEN you figure out what you want...
K

PS...jerks!!!

Posted By: aliveandkicking Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:42 AM
The sequel included...H brought the kids home tonight (usually I drop them off and get them from him)...he offered to help get them to sleep which they loved. S7 grilled H out of no where about why he and I don't act married or spend time together and on and on (...such timing), I left the room. Once settled in bed I came in and H was laying next to S7 who asked me to lay down next to him on his other side and then wanted a "triple kiss" (the three of us) which we did not oblige...somebody had an agenda.

After the kids went to sleep H and I had another Twilight Zone conversation. I got confirmation that the woman I had guessed was GF earlier today is right on the money. I did cry, not because he has a GF but because of the flashback of me asking him to please not go out with her back then and his unwillingness to give up what he saw as an opportunity (she's related to a famous person) led to this, plus all of the months of mind-f*cking. He said he didn't feel anything for her then (pre-bomb). I said he doesn't know he feels something till his pants are down.

He finally apologized. I asked what he was apologizing for and he said for me being "right." He said he has no idea where that R will end up (sounds ultra complicated). He held me when I cried. I thought I was going to throw up a couple of times. But, we laughed too. He wanted to know what I've done and I refused to discuss my personal life in detail. I did tell him I'm thrilled that I don't have a boyfriend but that I've dated and like getting attention but that I would not want to have to deal with more drama...and that I feel sorry for him seeing him struggle with all of this. He was sort of tickling my legs and telling me how great I look. Then there were things that we addressed from the list of WAS made up memories and he admitted that he has operated from that list and knows it is BS and he apologized again. He spoke of his own narcissism (not a classic narcissistic thing to do)...

I have no clue what is happening. He talked about wanting to leave this town, not for Europe but elsewhere. He admitted he's screwed up. He wishes he believed in therapy (we went through years of it before with no significant catharsis). He spoke of these people he has a sort of surrogate family (the rich ones)...I told him that I hope our kids wont grow up and seek a surrogate family because they don't have their own. We talked about his profound mommy issues and how so much of his bitterness and rage toward me is about her.

When he left, he hugged me and kissed my cheek and then my forehead and then told me that I'm sweet and he likes me. crazy

And then he texted me, "thank you."

There was so much more and I wish I had recorded it. I don't know if it matters. As my best friend just told me, he's a mess and he is not someone I can rely on. But, I do feel for him. Just as a human being, I see how lost he is and I feel for him. What next? I dunno.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 03:29 PM
I feel sick this morning. I hope some of you can check in here for the next couple of days. I "understand" him but I am torn as to whether to give an ultimatum, be cool, or just cut him off completely. I don't want to punish him for his honesty but for this to be my "marriage"...well, it disgusts me.

Thanks for any support. I am at a new juncture and needing a new plan. I am deeply saddened but not in a sad mood. I know I will have a great day anyway.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 03:33 PM
Also, he texted at about 1am asking if I was ok and then called this morning at 7:30 to check on me.

What's happening here?
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 03:46 PM
I would be curious to know how the OW came up/out? Missing some context there. Was it a neanderthal attempt at making you jealous brought up by him? Was it something you teased out in the midst of his confusion and weakness?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 03:50 PM
There have been references over the months but not specifics and I could never tell if he was f*cking with me (he was in a way)...

But yesterday he was stressed out because supposedly someone came up to him while he was with the kids and asked him about his "girlfriend." That really go to him and he wanted to make sure I would tell him if the kids said anything. It was the catalyst for bringing it out. But, really, he outed himself.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 03:57 PM
FYI- He's on the ropes with this woman. She's an eccentric artist with an "ex" boyfriend who is still in the picture...

There are plenty of strategies I could employ here. He's testing the waters. But, I'm just digesting all of this. I mean I captured an iota of our convo here, but in total it was 5 or 6 hours...I'm just sort of numb, for now.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 04:15 PM
IMHO you're already on the right path. Buckle down and focus forward. Don't enable him to stay in limbo. DBing is working. Focus on you. Get out of the trenches, details and valleys. Climb to the top of the hill and sing. Let him look up and see you there.
Posted By: tristan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 04:37 PM
Is there any remorse from him? Is he going to continue the A?
Posted By: Dia Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 04:39 PM
AK - re: your H's mommy issues.

I know an *amazing* IC in the CA desert. She does MC as well, but she says she's better as an IC and she often refers people out to do MC with a diff. C.

I you live in the LA area, this is a drive, but the desert has its own 'hollywood allure' so maybe it would appeal?

Want the referral?
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 04:51 PM
A&K,

I think the most important message to send to the WAS in the things that you do and say is: "I will have a happy life with you or without you. You are not essential to my happiness." It leaves the door unblocked to reconciliation, but it also is a green light for you to move forward without him.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 05:10 PM
Let it ride, sweetie. You have had some actual human-sounding conversations with him, not just spew, and this is a LOT to process. No plan, no decisions for at least 48 hours. Digest.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 05:17 PM
Originally Posted By: Lotus
A&K,

I think the most important message to send to the WAS in the things that you do and say is: "I will have a happy life with you or without you. You are not essential to my happiness." It leaves the door unblocked to reconciliation, but it also is a green light for you to move forward without him.


I think there is one more part to this message: tough love.

"I don't know if we will ever be a couple again, but if you even want to think about trying again you have to break off ALL contact with OW first"

---

You're doing great!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 05:57 PM
Originally Posted By: tristan
Is there any remorse from him? Is he going to continue the A?


Remorse, yes..."I'm sorry I hurt you. I'm sorry I'm an a**hole. I'm so flawed. I'm sorry you were right. Don't cry. It kills me to see you cry. Are you okay? I care about you..."

Will he continue the affair? He didn't say he wouldn't and I certainly didn't ask him not to. He said many times, "it could be over tomorrow"...and he looked confused. He's in it for sure but I think she's got him by the b*lls. He also was desperate for me to tell him what I've done which I couldn't tell was him wanting to make himself feel better or really have it out.

Also, he does NOT consider this an affair.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 05:58 PM
Originally Posted By: Dia
AK - re: your H's mommy issues.

I know an *amazing* IC in the CA desert. She does MC as well, but she says she's better as an IC and she often refers people out to do MC with a diff. C.

I you live in the LA area, this is a drive, but the desert has its own 'hollywood allure' so maybe it would appeal?

Want the referral?



Sure, I'll take the referral (FB), but I have been so mightily disappointed by therapists that I'd have to get a little more info. Thanks.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 06:01 PM
Quote:
A&K,

I think the most important message to send to the WAS in the things that you do and say is: "I will have a happy life with you or without you. You are not essential to my happiness." It leaves the door unblocked to reconciliation, but it also is a green light for you to move forward without him.


Yes, that has been consistently conveyed. However, I will never ever be a good enough actress to pull off that my optimal isn't having my family together. Call me "scr*wed" because I also don't think I can consider reconciling with him either. sick
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 06:05 PM
Quote:
I think there is one more part to this message: tough love.

"I don't know if we will ever be a couple again, but if you even want to think about trying again you have to break off ALL contact with OW first"

---

You're doing great!


Thanks Thinker but in my sitch, there is simply no ground for that ultimatum. I have the information. I have to choose what works for me. There is no marriage, there will be no transparency. He lives elsewhere and I don't trust him and I don't even want to be in the role of enforcing.

The only ultimatum I will consider is that he come to MC with me or we do not communicate beyond kids/money/logistics...I am thinking about it.

I don't even know if he is capable of monogamy and really it isn't even my first concern. His pathology is the biggest issue right now.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 06:06 PM
Quote:
Let it ride, sweetie. You have had some actual human-sounding conversations with him, not just spew, and this is a LOT to process. No plan, no decisions for at least 48 hours. Digest.


Yes, he just called again and I didn't answer. Must digest.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 06:23 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
I think there is one more part to this message: tough love.

"I don't know if we will ever be a couple again, but if you even want to think about trying again you have to break off ALL contact with OW first"

---

You're doing great!


Thanks Thinker but in my sitch, there is simply no ground for that ultimatum. I have the information. I have to choose what works for me. There is no marriage, there will be no transparency. He lives elsewhere and I don't trust him and I don't even want to be in the role of enforcing.

The only ultimatum I will consider is that he come to MC with me or we do not communicate beyond kids/money/logistics...I am thinking about it.

I don't even know if he is capable of monogamy and really it isn't even my first concern. His pathology is the biggest issue right now.



...but...

He is making moves toward reconciliation. At least is is trying to get closer to you - asking you out, etc.

So I don't mean enforcement, or transparency, etc. I am picturing something more like:

H: There's a great show here, do you want to go? (or "can I come over" or "do you want to go to this party" or. )

A&K: Are you still seeing OW?

H: Uhhh, Yes.

A&K: Then, No.

---

It's more of a way of saying "I am fine and happy and moving on without you. I'm not going to compete with her in any way. If you want to court me, then end it with her first"

It's the only way you can be clear whether he is playing you and keeping his options open, or whether he is sincere when he makes moves toward you. It's the only way that you can be sure he faces his own issues and mistakes.

If I am hearing you correctly, the only way you would consider reconciling is if he is sincere, faces his issues, and corrects his mistakes.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 06:47 PM
Just digesting...I hear ya Thinker.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 07:30 PM
He texted and wants to know if I can talk...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 07:49 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
A&K,

I think the most important message to send to the WAS in the things that you do and say is: "I will have a happy life with you or without you. You are not essential to my happiness." It leaves the door unblocked to reconciliation, but it also is a green light for you to move forward without him.


Yes, that has been consistently conveyed. However, I will never ever be a good enough actress to pull off that my optimal isn't having my family together. Call me "scr*wed" because I also don't think I can consider reconciling with him either. sick

Not everyone is a great actor but you can pull it off by living it. I can't imagine too much of the DBing stuff really works when its fake acting. I see people recommend it but if you don't feel it you're not going to fool anyone....

YOU CAN LIVE IT and make it real!!!
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 07:52 PM
Originally Posted By: Kettricken
Let it ride, sweetie. You have had some actual human-sounding conversations with him, not just spew, and this is a LOT to process. No plan, no decisions for at least 48 hours. Digest.

Good advice!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:00 PM
So, can I talk? All I would tell him is that I am digesting it all.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:01 PM
Originally Posted By: Thinker
So I don't mean enforcement, or transparency, etc. I am picturing something more like:

H: There's a great show here, do you want to go? (or "can I come over" or "do you want to go to this party" or. )

A&K: Are you still seeing OW?

H: Uhhh, Yes.

A&K: Then, No.

---

It's more of a way of saying "I am fine and happy and moving on without you. I'm not going to compete with her in any way. If you want to court me, then end it with her first"

It's the only way you can be clear whether he is playing you and keeping his options open, or whether he is sincere when he makes moves toward you. It's the only way that you can be sure he faces his own issues and mistakes.

If I am hearing you correctly, the only way you would consider reconciling is if he is sincere, faces his issues, and corrects his mistakes.

This sounds right to me. It's not an ultimatum and its completely consistent with moving forward while leaving room for potential reconciliation.

I would imagine that you (A&K) are swimming in all sorts of thoughts and emotions right now and have little bandwidth to absorb or process this stuff. It makes sense to try to slow things down if you can. He's probably dieing to get at your reaction but you need to take control of the cadence.
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:04 PM
I would stick to Kettricken's advice on a 48-hour break. Text H and tell him you can't talk today, later in the week is better for you.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:05 PM
Thanks.
Posted By: tristan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:07 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
So, can I talk? All I would tell him is that I am digesting it all.


Personally, I would let it go. It can be hard to stop a conversation after it starts.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:08 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
So, can I talk? All I would tell him is that I am digesting it all.

No
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:16 PM
Don't kill me. I texted, "what's up?" and he said he just wants to see how I'm doing after last night.

My brain is mush at the moment.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:22 PM
Oh, and two messages. WTF? He just wants to know that mommy isn't mad at him???
Posted By: Coach Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:22 PM
Let's see you have gone from saddened, disgusted, numb to mush and you want to know if you should talk to him today?

Survey says "X"
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:29 PM
I'm at devastated right now. I feel like a rat in a cage. I'll be okay but Jeezus.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:35 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm at devastated right now. I feel like a rat in a cage. I'll be okay but Jeezus.

Actually, you're in control. smile
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:38 PM
Ignore him for a while and focus on yourself. Take a day or two to feel and work through things.

I know, easier said than done, but he'll still be there when you are ready.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:42 PM
Why is this so damn hard?
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:43 PM
I don't know, but it is. It really is.
Posted By: antlers Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:43 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Why is this so damn hard?


Because it pretty much involves every aspect of your being!
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:47 PM
It is very hard, I sypathize. Turn off your phone, turn up the music. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 08:50 PM
Good yes. I simply told him that "I honestly don't know what to say."

I'm tired of playing games. I'm worn out and I can't worry about scr*wing up or not DBing or whatever. He's really f*cked up. Our M is so f*cked up.

Back to being already dead...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:25 PM
His answer, "say it anyway"...he's still gaming.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:26 PM
Stop Talking! Don't Answer!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:34 PM
Thanks Thinker. I wish I could just hit the pause button and regroup.

At least I've got the truth (or part of it).
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:39 PM
You can hit the pause button. Stop talking.
Posted By: Coach Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:41 PM
Quote:
I wish I could just hit the pause button and regroup.


Methinks that's what we are trying to tell you.
- take care of yourself: emotionally , physically, spirtually and intellectually
- respond when you are clear-headed, rested, well-fed, and have a vision on where you want to go.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:54 PM
.... random thought, not run through the logic meter ....

Every time you state a definite opinion, goal, emotion, boundary, whatnot .... you have thrown down and given him something to respond to. So then he gets to react to you, he doesn't have to confront himself.

If there is any merit to that thought at all, it might be good to let him stew in his own juices and look in his own mirror for a little while.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:56 PM
He just texted that he'd "love to talk" to me...

Say nothing?
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 09:59 PM
Put down the phone and walk away. Better yet, reread the posts of the last two pages until it sinks in. We all want what's best for you.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 10:05 PM
AK, if he is sincere and serious, letting him twist in the wind for a bit -- not as a "ploy", but for YOU to attain some mental/emotional peace and balance -- will not alter his desire to talk with you in a loving way. You're torturing yourself like someone trying to tread the perfect path through the minefield. Ain't no such thing. Breathe. You don't control the universe. Breathe. Hugs.
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 10:21 PM
this doesn't seem any different than his old "Look at me, pay attention to me!" tactic. Tell him no. You are not here to hold his hand and comfort him while he wrecks your family. No. He wants you to say it is alright. He can do her and come back home and have nicey nicey family time. All him, all the time. Tell him no.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 10:51 PM
True, true, true and thanks for being here. It helps.

Still, Lotus, I don't know what he wants or is thinking. When he came back last time the progression was similar in many ways. However, I don't want a next time...I'm just worn out.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 11:02 PM
And I meant thanks to all of you... wink
Posted By: The Wifey Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 11:51 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
He just texted that he'd "love to talk" to me...

Say nothing?


He would love to talk? That is what HE wants. Not what YOU need or with any consideration even if you need space. He wants you to talk so that translates to you have to talk? I don't think so.

Think about yourself right now. Let him twist.
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 11:51 PM
I really liked Lotus' assessment of the sitch.

Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Still, Lotus, I don't know what he wants or is thinking.


Exactly. And you can't know what he wants. But you can take the time alone to figure out what you want and act accordingly.
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/29/09 11:57 PM
He'd love to talk to you is not the same as he'd talk love to you. Don't get confused.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 12:03 AM
I'm not really confused about that Lotus, I am just exhausted. I don't even think he is capable of what I would want. I just want some time to sort myself out and him contacting me spins me for better or worse. We covered a LOT of ground yesterday. I was not a wilting flower looking for love. I was mostly listening and I also really set him straight on some things. I just need to get some rest and regroup.

Anyway, got some IRL advice from SP...basically be decent but tell him I need the 48 hours to regroup.

I'm at that point where I need to be honest and polite and take care of myself regardless of consequence.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 12:23 AM
I said, "I'm glad we've had honest communication. I just need some time to digest it."

He answered, "Ok. I've been paralyzed all night and all day from your pain, mine, the kids etc. Really..."


confused
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 12:59 AM
That sounds good.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 01:00 AM
grin cry shocked crazy sick mad eek cool
Posted By: JayMan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 01:49 AM
Now TAKE the time! Go get a manicure or a massage or something.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 01:57 AM
Oh, ya, with my monkeys jumping all over the place. wink

Tomorrow night, I'll go out with a GF to a Comedy Club.

And H's text??? Anyone care to explore that? Or is there no chance that anyone is that bored here?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 04:38 AM
H's text- "How are you? I'm sorry to bug you so much"
Posted By: v1olin Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 04:49 AM
Ignore him! I cant wait for my wife to start pursuing me like that- so I can ignore her!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:00 AM
Now he just called and I didn't answer. I am having a really hard time ignoring it.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:02 AM
He just texted me a crying icon.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:03 AM
I would wait a day or two.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:04 AM
Turn your phone off if you are tempted.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:15 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
He just texted me a crying icon.


But what the hell???
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:16 AM
So ... what are you afraid will happen if you don't respond?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:31 AM
Apparently I told my friend that I'm afraid that I'll miss some sort of opportunity (she's on the phone with me)...it is just a feeling, not logical.

Perhaps, I might get more information, more understanding, more connection if I'm here for him now. sick
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:43 AM
Fine, so ask him....are you giving up the girlfriend and rejoining your family? and if the answer is no, then there is nothing to talk about.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 05:49 AM
That isn't how I feel. shocked

He would not be invited to rejoin our family right now.

I think I just have a feeling of wanting to connect with him and I can't really rationalize.
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 06:41 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Apparently I told my friend that I'm afraid that I'll miss some sort of opportunity (she's on the phone with me)...it is just a feeling, not logical.

Perhaps, I might get more information, more understanding, more connection if I'm here for him now. sick



I wondered if it wasn't something like that. You might sit with that emotion for awhile and give yourself permission to not feel that obligation......

Forgive me if I'm out of line, but it sounds like you are weighing your need for some space against his need to keep the emotional hose hooked up to you (I'm trying not to interpret his motives here, but it just kinda sounds like, ".....ping ..... you still there, AK? .... ping .... just checking ..... ping......I made myself a little vulnerable; are you still there .... ping ....") In any event, it sounds like for some reason your heart inclines toward letting his needs trump your needs. Why?

Hell, if you are in a place where you have the emotional fortitude to continue the conversation, go for it. But you sounded a bit fraught earlier, and still kinda do ... so make sure you're doing it for the right reasons, not just because you are responding to a fear that you're going to miss the golden ticket moment if you're not "perfect".
Posted By: Lotus Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 06:53 AM
Reading your story from last night, I had the overall impression that you were still trying to fix him. He is screwed up and has problems, and if he tells them to you, you will be his personal therapist and make him all better. But if you are not going to be his wife, that's not your role anymore. Why fix him for her? Or, if not her, then the next woman.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 12:27 PM
Question and answer time.

Do you want to be available to him, for yourself, regardless of the potential cost to you in terms of the progress you've made?

In other words, do the benefits outweigh the price?

If yes, respond; if no, ignore.

(Thought experiment -- if Rock Star Girlfriend had dumped him or wasn't responding to him in the way he wants, to whom would he turn for that salve his ego so clearly needs?)
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 02:07 PM
I did not respond. I woke up this morning to a text that said "I guess I can understand if you don't want to talk to me."

I answered, perhaps too impulsively, that I was physically and mentally exhausted and that I need to re-calibrate and then we can talk.

What I feel is trapped. I don't have a win situation here. I still, after all of these months, "want my family together," but the brutal reality is miles away from that being even reasonably fathomable. When he left years ago, my DB (without the actual DB influence) was "get him back." It simply cannot be that now and I know it.

So, what do I want? I want to even see what it might entail for keeping my family together to be a reasonable goal...but, that requires considering him and what he is doing and making some requests of him. And that is contrary to me just focusing on myself exclusively.

I hope that makes sense, that is my conflict and the truth.
Posted By: Coach Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 02:42 PM
You are forgetting the other side of the paradox - Hope.

Why do you think considering others and making requests of others is not focusing on yourself? Boundaries, no expectations and detachment keep this healthy.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 02:47 PM
I cannot ignore the evidence. I want to determine what my requirements are/would be to continue any kind of relationship with H. I don't mind making the requests and setting boundaries...I also feel like I'm training an old dog here.

MC, mediator, Retrovaille...my own plan...I'm trying to determine how best to get this R on a healthy track or if it should be on any track at all.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 03:05 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I did not respond. I woke up this morning to a text that said "I guess I can understand if you don't want to talk to me."

I answered, perhaps too impulsively, that I was physically and mentally exhausted and that I need to re-calibrate and then we can talk.

What I feel is trapped. I don't have a win situation here. I still, after all of these months, "want my family together," but the brutal reality is miles away from that being even reasonably fathomable. When he left years ago, my DB (without the actual DB influence) was "get him back." It simply cannot be that now and I know it.

So, what do I want? I want to even see what it might entail for keeping my family together to be a reasonable goal...but, that requires considering him and what he is doing and making some requests of him. And that is contrary to me just focusing on myself exclusively.

I hope that makes sense, that is my conflict and the truth.

I see two parallel journeys that will happen no matter what any of us do.

1) The first one is your journey to peace, health and happiness and that must happen independent of H. Period. You cannot get there until you release yourself from the dependency on him. It doesn't work if you release from him but cling to the family thing. Keeping the family together is so important but we can't be successful partners or participants in our families until we're whole as individuals.

2) The second journey is H's. Its going to happen along side yours. You have no control over it whatsoever.

There are and will be periodic touch points between his journey and yours but you can't let them disrupt your journey. At some point there may be opportunities for reconciliation. At some point you may decide you don't want to regardless. Completing your journey will offer you to access those options. Resist the temptation to feel like you're failing the kids or that you're taking away their shot at a whole family. This is the path that will deliver for them.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 03:15 PM
Very well said RSF...I am absorbing.

It wasn't just a little attention from H. It was a hard right hook with a sweet caress once I was on the ropes.

I'm getting back up.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 06:34 PM

"Hi. I haven't forgotten about you. Just taking a few days to think things over. Talk soon."

---

You can't see the reflection of the moon if the water is moving and full of waves. When the water stills, the image is clear.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 08:15 PM
Ya, the image is clear for about 20 seconds... wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 09/30/09 08:36 PM
In response to my text this morning about just wanting to re-calibrate:

H- Ok. Have a better day today

Then I texted something about the kids.

Then he texted that he's exhausted and "I can't stand this situation hard to sleep although I did sleep" [how f*cking funny is that???]

Then he left me a message inviting me to come to the movies with him and the kids tonight but he knows I probably don't want to.

Then he texted me about some $ stuff.

Then I answered the money text and added, "Have fun with the boys. I'm not gonna make it this time."

He said, "I figured. Totally get it."

What exactly does he think he "gets"???

Anyway, having a good day...just venting here but doing alright.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 12:49 AM
Dammit. It just hit me again. cry

I'm going out tonight with a friend and I'll have fun but why is he contacting me if he has this fabulous girlfriend?

I see no way but out for me. I want to move to another city and start over.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 02:23 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
... but why is he contacting me if he has this fabulous girlfriend?


Because maybe the history with you is more important than he thought...

Because maybe the connection is stronger than he thought...

Because maybe the fabulous girlfriend isn't actually so fabulous...

Because maybe you are F'ing Fabulous yourself...

Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 02:24 AM
Thanks. Apparently he told his mom about his girlfriend yesterday. But he's devastated that he hurt me and he's confused.

I am trying not to have a nervous breakdown.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 03:51 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Thanks. Apparently he told his mom about his girlfriend yesterday. But he's devastated that he hurt me and he's confused.

I am trying not to have a nervous breakdown.

Is there any chance his devastation is cover fire for his outing the news about GF?
Posted By: Kettricken Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 04:06 AM
So let him be devastated and confused. You've already done your time with devastated and confused. You don't have to take any of his on. Yet (and maybe I'm completely wrong here) it still sounds like you feel somehow compelled to. Detach, detach.

Take care of yourself, sweetie. Second only to your kids, that's your biggest responbility right now.
Posted By: Dudess Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 04:37 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
he's devastated that he hurt me and he's confused.


It sounds like he is more concerned with how devastated he is that he hurt you, than how devastated you are that he hurt you.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 06:33 AM
Quote:
Is there any chance his devastation is cover fire for his outing the news about GF?


Yes. Could be that, could be multiple things.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 09:06 AM
Well, went out tonight. Had a great time. Got hit on by an adorable guy who I gave my number to. grin

Of course, more texts from H. I called my mom tonight and told her what's up and that I really want to see a T so I can get my head straight because I'm really struggling. She insisted that she was so impressed with how I'm handling all of this. I told her I really need help.

More texts from H regarding S9 who couldn't sleep tonight because he was scared etc.

H wanted to talk. I said I would try to find a counselor for S9 and we can talk tomorrow. He texted more...how am I doing etc. I finally lost it ( :/)...I called him and I spelled it out for him. He admitted to being selfish and he apologized for not leaving me alone. He said he feels f*cked up and he agreed that he's made a mess but he doesn't know how to get help. HE suggested that maybe we could go in and see someone together. I told him I am going in to see someone myself and if the T is good then maybe H could come in but first I need to deal with me.

I was clear. I am not going to be anyone's second choice. I expressed honestly how perverse it feels that he was playing both of us (me and GF). He finally listened and acknowledged.

We talked about S9 a bit and I said I think he is going through a lot and that even though I think it has much to do with H leaving, it is moot because he is not coming back so we need to just deal with S's issues.

I told H that I cannot have any kind of relationship right now...I have to get myself straightened out.

I do feel better. I am so tired. I'm sad that he's so screwed up. I think he may be help-able based on his willingness to listen and take a little more responsibility (yes, it is just words but even listening has been a struggle for him lately)...I have no illusions about this relationship and its salvageability (or lack there-of).

I hope the guy I met tonight contacts me. Just some attention and stimulating conversation (he's a talented comedic writer).

Thanks for the support here, I need it. Theoretical GF was no where near as gut-wrenchingly painful as real life GF...

But, this is who H is. I can't pin down how this story should end...I can't decide if the prospect of a future with H is better or worse than divorce. I can however digest the truth and love myself a little more...
Posted By: Coach Re: Part f*cking deux... - 10/01/09 02:02 PM
Quote:
love myself a little more...


Let us know how this works. smile

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/01/09 03:58 PM
All flippin night, dreams of H's hot mess.

This is normal. I've been through this before.

It just sucks. Period.

I'll work out and take a shower and do my thing.

The truth hurts. I'm still numb/sick inside but I'm still glad I got it.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 12:41 AM
Back to School Night/Obligatory encounter with H...

I'm good.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 03:08 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Back to School Night/Obligatory encounter with H...

How'd it go?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 06:00 AM
Uh, is it bad that I want to take H's money, buy myself some lingerie, let someone rip it off of me, f*ck the sh*t out of that someone and send a video of it to H??

It went interesting. After he did us the enormous favor of missing a concert (yes this was reiterated multiple times)...after the boring as heck school event, as I prepared to hustle tired youngens home to sleep...H started talking about dinner and where he was gonna go (ooo...daddy, we want to go too, we're starving etc.). So big bad mean mommy decides to oblige and we all hop in H's car to go to dinner (note to self, what the f*ck are you doing?????).

Unfortunately, on the forefront of my mind is a purchase that I saw made by H that, while I can't explain here, clearly screamed (bought this for GF)...but, who knows? May be a coincidence (maybe something he bought for research for a project or something). So, I, being not of sound mind, start inquiring about H's work, you sure there's no other projects?? Kids are with us (I NEVER normally do this kind of nutty stuff)...trying to be covert, thinking for some pathetic reason, no, that's not how he spends his time, searching for things with her name on it...for what? Finally at dinner, you sure you're not doing a ***** ***** project? Lightbulb. He's caught. I can see it. Self-inflicted wound. S7 asks me why I "hate" daddy...yikes.

I must admit in some sick way, I relished in him surrounded by his kids and myself having to stew in it. Mind you, they had NO idea what we were talking about, just that there was tension and weirdness.

So, after dinner, he texted me that he felt caught especially with the kids there and that I didn't violate anything.

And I admitted that I showed a lack of restraint and I shouldn't have come to dinner with that on my mind.

Somehow I thought it wasn't what I thought it was but there it is...he's got quite the romance going with her and it involves special gifts and even apparently a neat project he's making for her...well from what I could gather in code.

My big issue was that it appeared he bought one of the items on the day he was sending me "i feel so bad texts" and "I'm so confused"...seems I was wrong on the dates and he was very preoccupied with pointing that out.

Anyway, I want to run run run away...

cute comedic genius texted me today. I'll tell you, I want it, but it seems the dating thing may just be a whole other world of hurt.

So, I'm great. crazy
Posted By: Dudess Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 06:44 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Uh, is it bad that I want to take H's money, buy myself some lingerie, let someone rip it off of me, f*ck the sh*t out of that someone and send a video of it to H??


Sounds normal to me. I want the same thing. (I mean, I want someone to f*ck me til I can't walk. I want that for you too of course. grin)

In fact, I would be, I mean I will be, happy with that even without the video.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 07:43 AM
Quote:
Sounds normal to me. I want the same thing. (I mean, I want someone to f*ck me til I can't walk. I want that for you too of course. )


LOL...I want to f*ck him by getting f*cked more than I actually want to f*ck (thus why I'm not gonna do it any time soon, so I say)...
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 02:44 PM
Remind me again why all the reasons that a WAW should have an epiphany and shudder in fear at the prospect of divorce are not applicable to the LBW?

I think that has been an impasse for me. "Oh, she'll see how awful it is"..."she'll come crawling back once reality hits"...how is that not my destiny too?

It just seems like we make the case on here as to why marriage is so important and divorce is so bad and they'll see and then we simultaneously try to convince ourselves that it doesn't matter and life will be fine regardless.

I am exhausted walking that line. Why would H wake up? Why would he regret? Why would he work for it? Where is the value?
What is really happening with me? (not that anyone asked :/)...

There is this real OP. H is clearly "in love" with her, inspired by her, excited by her.

I will never be a) 8 years younger b) an exceptionally talented and famous artist and c) the daughter of a famous person.

I feel like sh*t. I was H's wife, the mother of my kids and basically the matriarch of my family...and now, I am...flailing.

How am I back at what is being taken from me?


Posted By: orangedog Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/02/09 06:38 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Remind me again why all the reasons that a WAW should have an epiphany and shudder in fear at the prospect of divorce are not applicable to the LBW?

I think that has been an impasse for me. "Oh, she'll see how awful it is"..."she'll come crawling back once reality hits"...how is that not my destiny too?

It just seems like we make the case on here as to why marriage is so important and divorce is so bad and they'll see and then we simultaneously try to convince ourselves that it doesn't matter and life will be fine regardless.

I am exhausted walking that line. Why would H wake up? Why would he regret? Why would he work for it? Where is the value?



Because you have seen the value in yourself. You are confident. You don't need to beg or plead. Because you will be the better person and lead by example.

H wake up? You said he's been confused lately and sending lots of texts. This OW is a diversion and a way to prop up his ego.
Quote:
I feel like sh*t. I was H's wife, the mother of my kids and basically the matriarch of my family...and now, I am...flailing.

How am I back at what is being taken from me?


You are at the bottom of the roller coaster right now. I was there Wednesday night for some weird reason and unfortunately I think that'll hit me again this weekend.

I was the king of a cool family in a great neighborhood. Money was good. Kids are healthy. Retirement is on track. The future laid in front of us. We just had to walk it together.

Now, I'm thinking about how to handle Thanksgiving and Christmas alone. What it will be like to sit apart when our daughters graduate high school.

One thing that's helped a little when that emotional pain hits is to look at how far you've already come.

Easier said than done.

And remember that at some point the WAW will have to take a hard look at himself/herself. The stats on D aren't good. No one wins and your WAS will have pain.
Originally Posted By: ClingingToHope


I was the king of a cool family in a great neighborhood. Money was good. Kids are healthy. Retirement is on track. The future laid in front of us. We just had to walk it together.

Now, I'm thinking about how to handle Thanksgiving and Christmas alone. What it will be like to sit apart when our daughters graduate high school.



Awwww, made me cry a little.
The killer is that i get okay...but I cave in. And I know from really listening or reading his correspondence that he is in pain, he is hurting.

He turned on me in our recent conversation and I wanted to freak out and I just asked him what hurt? what caused him to lash out like that?

Unfortunately it was basically that he feels like even with his GF, I am being negative (implying she could conceivably break up with him) and I am like his mom and why can't I just not get entangled and enmeshed...

Well, helllooooo stalker man.

anyway, i said that i am willing to talk to him and hear him but I can't hear about her or be compared.

and that I need him to see me as I am (which obviously can't happen while he's got her).

Obviously there was more and it was disturbing and crass and he typed in all caps "I NEED HELP"...and I suggested not discuss our R or his GF or any decisions until he gets that help.

He did many years of therapy with a regular therapist...he needs miracle worker. And so do I (left a message last night).

crazy


Posted By: aliveandkicking Is disgust the final phase? - 10/03/09 05:24 PM
Despite the fact that H called to apologize and calmly acknowledge how twisted his behavior has been, today when he came to pick up the kids I felt disgust. He tried to rub my back and then poked me here and there and I just moved away. He asked me if I was ok. "Fine"...but I really don't want him touching me.
Posted By: pearlharbr Re: Is disgust the final phase? - 10/03/09 05:36 PM
That's understandable. Practice detachment.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Is disgust the final phase? - 10/03/09 05:39 PM
I know!! But I'm so well trained here that I know I'm not apathetic and I know that means I've still got some kinda horse in the race! But ewe, gross...really. Dammit.
Posted By: SmileysPerson Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/04/09 02:28 AM
Quote:
Uh, is it bad that I want to take H's money, buy myself some lingerie, let someone rip it off of me, f*ck the sh*t out of that someone and send a video of it to H??


Smiley's Person channeling his inner Arnold Horschak (@0:06)......
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Dreams of a...nutha woman... - 10/04/09 06:25 PM
Ahhh, nothing like the rantings of a wounded and maniacal scorned woman to create a stir.

AAK + SEX = hot mess
Posted By: antlers Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/05/09 02:00 AM
I am impressed with how strong you are, especially dealing with adultry/infidelity like you have had to do. Has anyone filed for divorce in your situation? If so, how long has it been?
Nope. No filing. And the truth was only revealed a few days ago...up until then it was kind alluded to. Even now, I don't know what is really going on with OW. I mean, he is really struggling to step out of his connection with me and his role within our family.

Honestly, I realized today that I am traumatized (used loosely but literally) and that I probably should not be dating anyone.

However, I am going on a date tonight. Therapist tomorrow. crazy

H says he is messed up and wants help. We shall see. I can't get into the whole story but we had a moment with S9 that was so precious and really melted us together...it is just a sad story of two wounded people who don't know how to feel okay with each other anymore...

I know from reading on here and from watching my friends that the paper divorce means little and the emotional divorce is the hardest part. That is why I don't focus so much on it. The marriage is dead, the connection is not.
[quote=aliveandkicking]I know from reading on here and from watching my friends that the paper divorce means little and the emotional divorce is the hardest part. [/quote
Is that equally true for men and women?? I have a suspicion that men deal with paper (logic) then deal with emotion.
It may very well be different for men than for women however, there are plenty of couples where even post divorce, one or both parties are emotionally invested. I think it can manifest in different ways...anger, pursuit, resentment, sexual relationships...seems both men and women hang on in some way.

Not sure how it break down statistically.
Men are more logic based? hmmm....


DEFINE GENDER {MAN, WOMAN}

If GENDER = MAN then
PROCESS PAPERWORK
PROCESS EMOTION
on CONFUSED then EXIT>
Posted By: Dia Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 12:36 AM
LOL!!!
Now that's funny. I need a little help with some php when you have a minute o'dog
Dating sucks. I'm going to be a spinster.
Posted By: Dudess Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 04:51 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Dating sucks. I'm going to be a spinster.


Sorry to hear. What happened?
That doesn't sound good. Sorry it didn't go well.
Sorry A&K. At least you got out there. O'dog hasn't wanted to try yet.



RedSox, I'll help you with that PHP anytime. Just say the word.
Well, it was awesome...stupid and young and fun and I know 100% that he had a great time...but no text or call today. That is not how I roll. Makin' out and having a great time till ridiculous hours...I want some kind of check-in, feedback, anything.

He is too in the scene anyway but talented, intelligent, politically aligned...not exactly a stable choice given his profession and age (and love of a should be legal substance). But, I am attracted to the creative types.

I just don't like putting myself out there. I am such a straight up person and this is game-town.
The creative types are rarely the stable types. Do a search for "Madness + Creativity" sometime and see what you find.

Nonetheless you deserve a call back
Do guys actually wait on purpose (a la Swingers)?

Oh, and basically I'm in trouble because I love creative types (maybe once I'm more stable I'll find a balance)...right now I'm feeling pretty loopy and equally vulnerable. All the reason not to date, right?


Posted By: Dudess Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 06:02 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Well, it was awesome...stupid and young and fun and I know 100% that he had a great time...but no text or call today. That is not how I roll. Makin' out and having a great time till ridiculous hours...I want some kind of check-in, feedback, anything.

He is too in the scene anyway but talented, intelligent, politically aligned...not exactly a stable choice given his profession and age (and love of a should be legal substance). But, I am attracted to the creative types.

I just don't like putting myself out there. I am such a straight up person and this is game-town.


Sorry AKK. That sucks.

Maybe in the future, less making out, home earlier, on the first date.

Oh, and move somewhere else.

Do you think maybe creative types are also attacted to you?
Posted By: Dudess Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 06:09 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
The creative types are rarely the stable types. Do a search for "Madness + Creativity" sometime and see what you find.


Is there any real data to suggest it must be so? Or do creative types simply use that as a bullsh*t excuse to act as if the rules don't apply to them them? Or . . . do we as a culture in some way expect, and even require, that someone have a dysfunctional lifestyle in order to qualify as a bond fide "creative type".

(My H is an artist. Can you tell?)


Quote:
Sorry AKK. That sucks.


Am I over-reacting? Do guys sometimes wait on purpose?

Quote:
Maybe in the future, less making out, home earlier, on the first date.


Ya, well, I'm impressed at my restraint. There was some serious sexual chemistry from moment one...it was fun. I can live with it.

Quote:
Oh, and move somewhere else.


Yes, contemplating that.

Quote:
Do you think maybe creative types are also attacted to you?



Yes, creative types are attracted to me especially because I am at heart, a creative type myself and I have some kind of crazy vibe I'm giving off right now (gee, I wonder why)...
Originally Posted By: Dudess
Originally Posted By: orangedog
The creative types are rarely the stable types. Do a search for "Madness + Creativity" sometime and see what you find.


Is there any real data to suggest it must be so? Or do creative types simply use that as a bullsh*t excuse to act as if the rules don't apply to them them? Or . . . do we as a culture in some way expect, and even require, that someone have a dysfunctional lifestyle in order to qualify as a bond fide "creative type".

(My H is an artist. Can you tell?)


Of course it is an excuse. I was an impulsive creative type but when I had my kids, I got it together. Creative types tend to be kind of narcissistic if given too many accolades and success...makes sense.

So, I can go out with a struggling broke artist who makes me his muse or get treated like crap...yes, I realize there are other options. grin
Posted By: Dudess Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 06:45 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking

So, I can go out with a struggling broke artist who makes me his muse or get treated like crap...yes, I realize there are other options. grin


Yeah, at least my H was past the struggling/broke stage. I got treated like crap by a successful artist. smirk
Posted By: Dudess Re: I need help, again, but more than ever. - 10/06/09 06:49 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking


Am I over-reacting? Do guys sometimes wait on purpose?


I think some do. They don't want to appear too anxious. Maybe next day call back is only mandatory if they make it to the promised land.

Originally Posted By: AKK
I'm impressed at my restraint. There was some serious sexual chemistry from moment one...it was fun.


Good girl! Did you wear your ugly panties?
It's not just BS. A link between madness and creativity has long been suspected and was discussed even by the ancient Greeks. There is a lot current research on the topic. A good scholarly read on the subject is "Touched by Fire" by Kay Redfeld Jamison. Not all authors & artists have problems - but they seem to have more than fair share.

--
Need to have an alt lifestyle to be creative? Not necessarily. (O'dog anecdotal evidence here) Some of the people I work with and went to school wear boring shirts with buttons (O'dog included). Some really have that alt/bohemian thing going. And some are just posers (too bad it doesn't help their work).


O'dog
(Who has an art degree, works in a creative field, and showers every day).
Quote:
Good girl! Did you wear your ugly panties?


Nope, I actually told him up front that I didn't want it to go there. And even with some drinks in me, I stuck to it.

But we still had quite a good time without him making it down my pants.
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Quote:
Good girl! Did you wear your ugly panties?


Nope, I actually told him up front that I didn't want it to go there. And even with some drinks in me, I stuck to it.

But we still had quite a good time without him making it down my pants.

Sheeesh! How am I supposed to live vicariously through your sitch if you are so restrained. ;-)
Well, it was hot hot hot. And he was happy at the end.

I think I need to take up knitting and keep myself indoors. Maybe get some cats.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 07:51 PM
Ok. So while wallowing in my insecurity today, I have honed in on the nuts and bolts of it.

I have accomplished nothing noteworthy in my life other than raising two exceptional kids who are basically f*cked up now. They are awesome and I love them dearly but I have such a profound feeling of loss (not failure) but having had their well-being and my ability to ensure it stolen. And yes, I realize sh*t happens and yes I know that I cannot attach my identity solely to my children. But, they were my job. It hurts too much to see them struggling like this. I see the damage being done and the insecurities developing. S9 described himself last night as "generally not secure"...wow do I relate to that feeling.

About me. I have so much to say and create and I feel as if I have to do it with a thousand tons of weight piled on me. H is off traveling again next week, living the life, accolades...and me? I have to start from scratch.

I would love to make some money. Trying still to find something that would enable me to be with my kids, create something sustainable and pay decent money.

There's a sense of injustice that plagues me these days. Even with this guy not calling, it is more about decency than what I hoped to get out of a R with him (not a whole lot). I mean, I think I'm feeling like a little woman...

Maybe if I can flip it to some romantic notion of "underdog" and get a fire under my a** that will help.

Every time I feel kick a**, H steps in and burns out my flame (my responsibility, I know)...but he outshines.

Getting blown off just poured some salt on the wound.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 08:43 PM
AAK,

I'm not going to sit here and tell you things are going to get better, or that you're a better person than you what you feel now, etc.

The fact is that we've all been there or are there with you in the trenches. But only you can get yourself out of it. We all get on the pity train more times than we can count, but then at some point, we decide when to get off.

Look at yourself in the mirror. What you see is an able bodied mother and woman who can and will do the things she needs to survive. And that's what this is. It's survival.

Imagine your H dead and gone. That's what he is anyway. What will YOU do to survive? It's like that scene in Gone with the Wind where Scarlett swears she'll never go hungry again. Well, that's what you need to adopt. That attitude.

It's your choice to get on the pain train, and it's also your choice to get off.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 09:10 PM
Quote:
Imagine your H dead and gone.


Okay, if you insist. grin
Posted By: MrBond Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 09:16 PM
Ha! That's the attitude. Since my W's still living with me, I don't see her as dead and gone, just brain damaged!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 09:23 PM
Well my H isn't exactly gone, he's in my face and my brain.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 10:45 PM
Actually he just called and wanted to meet me with the kids cuz he was right by the school, said "I would love to see you guys." I actually saw his car while I was on the phone with him and I said no, that we had to get home. He texted that he was sorry to have bothered me and I seemed annoyed. I don't even want to give him that. I said I just had to get them and get home.

I feel so wrecked and I am blaming him right now...I know that needs to be short-lived. I'm responsible for my own feelings but I'm just really down.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 11:49 PM
No you did right. He's stalking you because he's indecisive. That's the hardest part about all this. They are on the emotional rollercoaster, yet we tend to be the ones being dragged along.

Keep those correspondences with him to a minimum. Don't let his comments about you seeming annoyed, etc. get to you. You notice he always says something about how YOU look angry or annoyed. It deflects the blame away from him and makes you the bad guy.

As hard as it is, don't even respond to those comments. Don't say "no I wasn't annoyed", etc. Hell yeah you were annoyed. But if you say you do, he's going to say "look you are the bad guy here not me." Establish your boundaries and don't let him cross.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/06/09 11:58 PM
I can't believe I set myself up with the comedian guy to deal with another rejection. It was totally predicable.

Next thing you know, I'll be hitting the crack pipe. I don't know how to process this stuff anymore.
Posted By: antlers Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 12:12 AM
Hi AAK.

Do you think you've detatched completely? You said the marriage was dead but the connection is still there. Can't the connection still be there even if one has detatched completely. Doesn't detatchment mean that you completely realiize thay you have NO CONTROL over the other persons thoughts, feelings, and actions...and that you accept that? Have you done that?

I feel for ya'. I really do. You get thrown up and down and left and right and back and forth in this thing! I wonder, if you are completely detatched, and if you're not...maybe it would help if you were.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 12:33 AM
Honestly, I've gotten close. But, my kids are suffering and I have that tiny soft spot and he feels that door closing and comes barging through any way he can.

I have detached enough to feel totally ambivalent. Meaning, logistically, I realize that I may very well be better off without him, I am attached enough to the progress (however elusive it may seem) I am making on my own and I am not holding on to any conscious hope that we will reconcile.

The information about the GF pummeled me (and I met this date guy just an hour and a half after wiping tears from my eyes and breaking down)...I understand objectively what is happening but sometimes it just feels like the most surreal and unnerving experience and it is my life.

So, I take it as it comes. I am going to be in IC and starting a class soon that I am excited about. I am trying.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 12:44 AM
Originally Posted By: antlers

Do you think you've detatched completely? You said the marriage was dead but the connection is still there. Can't the connection still be there even if one has detatched completely. Doesn't detatchment mean that you completely realiize thay you have NO CONTROL over the other persons thoughts, feelings, and actions...and that you accept that? Have you done that?

I feel for ya'. I really do. You get thrown up and down and left and right and back and forth in this thing! I wonder, if you are completely detatched, and if you're not...maybe it would help if you were.



You're doin' OK A&K. It's really hard.

I think detachment is an ideal that with lots of work and lots of time you can approach, but I don't think one ever really gets there. I think some people confuse detaching with distancing. It is easier to distance oneself - you cut off contact, don't see the person regularly, and soon you stop really thinking about them.

I think detaching, on the other hand, is when you can still be with them - be around them and see them regularly, care about them, and STILL be objective and not let them influence you. THAT is REALLY hard to do.

And unfortunately, since your H is still a big part of your life and is still forcing himself in THAT is what you are stuck doing.

Believe me, you are not crazy or weak or not trying hard enough. It IS really hard.

Take care of yourself. I can see huge changes from where you were a couple of months ago. You ARE doing it.

Thinker
Posted By: orangedog Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 12:50 AM
Hugs A&K.

I'll spill what I'm thinking and feeling on detachment. Maybe you can relate to some of it.


Detachment is not a one-time thing but a process that happens in stages. It's like the lines at DisneyLand; as soon as you think you're done you turn the corner and bam...another long wait. There's another process to work thru.

This post-sep/div-coparent stage is not easy. With kids there is no clean break. There is no true divorce. O'dog guesses this stage of detachment will take the longest and will never be 100%.

O'dog doesn't want to care about the She but has interactions, conversations, comments, complaints, and complements and it's hard to blow them off. It's hard not to feel something (sadness, anger, etc.) no matter how hard one tries. We build those walls thick and high but there's always a window that we cannot close.

O'dog will mind-read a little and propose the She is probably thinking and feeling something similar. "I went to all this trouble and I still can't get rid of him. I hate talking about money, coats for the kids, or who's turn it is to pay the dentist. But what can I do? I've already divorced him."

Sometimes the O'dog wishes he could just move outta' here and not have to deal with the sitch and the She. Besides, it harsh in the winter and not great for the O'dog mood. But what's a dog to do? Leave the pups behind?

So while many prop up the O'dog with comments like "It's a whole new life. You can do whatever you want", they fail to see the strings (ropes, chains) attached. It's not freedom. It's parole.

Don't know anyway around it. Just have to go thru it. Just keep working on myself and not get distracted by the She Sideshow.
Posted By: antlers Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 01:02 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Honestly, I've gotten close. But, my kids are suffering and I have that tiny soft spot and he feels that door closing and comes barging through any way he can.

I have detached enough to feel totally ambivalent. Meaning, logistically, I realize that I may very well be better off without him, I am attached enough to the progress (however elusive it may seem) I am making on my own and I am not holding on to any conscious hope that we will reconcile.

The information about the GF pummeled me (and I met this date guy just an hour and a half after wiping tears from my eyes and breaking down)...I understand objectively what is happening but sometimes it just feels like the most surreal and unnerving experience and it is my life.

So, I take it as it comes. I am going to be in IC and starting a class soon that I am excited about. I am trying.



Damn. If I had any tears left, your post would cause me to give up some more.
I think you're doing good AAK, especially under these crazy circumstances.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 01:03 AM
You're welcome to tell O'dog to shove it if you wish but be careful you don't rebound. When you're wiping the tears from your eyes then going out with someone an hour and a half later then you could be setting yourself up. You know yourself best Ok.

I dunno. Maybe I'm just too dog-tired to date right now.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 01:09 AM
Quote:
When you're wiping the tears from your eyes then going out with someone an hour and a half later then you could be setting yourself up.


Ya, that's what I did. It is called self inflicted rubbing of salt in wounds. I don't recommend it.

But, hey, going out that night was big and I was ripe for some uber-talented shmuck to charm the pants off of me (ha, at least I kept my pants on!!!!!)...

He was sweeeeet talkin' and I'm really too good for him (given the juvenile lifestyle, pot-smoking etc), but, he got the upper hand the second he saw me blush.

Anyway, water under the bridge.
Posted By: antlers Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 02:05 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Hugs A&K.

I'll spill what I'm thinking and feeling on detachment. Maybe you can relate to some of it.


Detachment is not a one-time thing but a process that happens in stages. It's like the lines at DisneyLand; as soon as you think you're done you turn the corner and bam...another long wait. There's another process to work thru.

This post-sep/div-coparent stage is not easy. With kids there is no clean break. There is no true divorce. O'dog guesses this stage of detachment will take the longest and will never be 100%.

O'dog doesn't want to care about the She but has interactions, conversations, comments, complaints, and complements and it's hard to blow them off. It's hard not to feel something (sadness, anger, etc.) no matter how hard one tries. We build those walls thick and high but there's always a window that we cannot close.

O'dog will mind-read a little and propose the She is probably thinking and feeling something similar. "I went to all this trouble and I still can't get rid of him. I hate talking about money, coats for the kids, or who's turn it is to pay the dentist. But what can I do? I've already divorced him."

Sometimes the O'dog wishes he could just move outta' here and not have to deal with the sitch and the She. Besides, it harsh in the winter and not great for the O'dog mood. But what's a dog to do? Leave the pups behind?

So while many prop up the O'dog with comments like "It's a whole new life. You can do whatever you want", they fail to see the strings (ropes, chains) attached. It's not freedom. It's parole.

Don't know anyway around it. Just have to go thru it. Just keep working on myself and not get distracted by the She Sideshow.


You are very insightful my man!
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 02:18 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Hugs A&K.

I'll spill what I'm thinking and feeling on detachment. Maybe you can relate to some of it.


Detachment is not a one-time thing but a process that happens in stages. It's like the lines at DisneyLand; as soon as you think you're done you turn the corner and bam...another long wait. There's another process to work thru.

This post-sep/div-coparent stage is not easy. With kids there is no clean break. There is no true divorce. O'dog guesses this stage of detachment will take the longest and will never be 100%.

O'dog doesn't want to care about the She but has interactions, conversations, comments, complaints, and complements and it's hard to blow them off. It's hard not to feel something (sadness, anger, etc.) no matter how hard one tries. We build those walls thick and high but there's always a window that we cannot close.

O'dog will mind-read a little and propose the She is probably thinking and feeling something similar. "I went to all this trouble and I still can't get rid of him. I hate talking about money, coats for the kids, or who's turn it is to pay the dentist. But what can I do? I've already divorced him."

Sometimes the O'dog wishes he could just move outta' here and not have to deal with the sitch and the She. Besides, it harsh in the winter and not great for the O'dog mood. But what's a dog to do? Leave the pups behind?

So while many prop up the O'dog with comments like "It's a whole new life. You can do whatever you want", they fail to see the strings (ropes, chains) attached. It's not freedom. It's parole.

Don't know anyway around it. Just have to go thru it. Just keep working on myself and not get distracted by the She Sideshow.



Where and when was that posted?

It's frankly not very inspiring. Honest and yes I relate but parole? No can do. Can't push through this much pain for parole. I have to think there is something better.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 02:42 AM
Oopsy, I missed quite a bit there, have to go back.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 03:23 AM
I'm sorry. I guess it is a discouraging post. It's currently where and how O'dog is stuck. I don't know how many other sepd/div'd go through it but there has to be some common elements. It's what I'm trying to push through.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
I'm sorry. I guess it is a discouraging post. It's currently where and how O'dog is stuck. I don't know how many other sepd/div'd go through it but there has to be some common elements. It's what I'm trying to push through.


Of course. I do think this is normal. I just can't project that it will stay this way.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 03:35 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Hugs A&K.

I'll spill what I'm thinking and feeling on detachment. Maybe you can relate to some of it.


Detachment is not a one-time thing but a process that happens in stages. It's like the lines at DisneyLand; as soon as you think you're done you turn the corner and bam...another long wait. There's another process to work thru.

This post-sep/div-coparent stage is not easy. With kids there is no clean break. There is no true divorce. O'dog guesses this stage of detachment will take the longest and will never be 100%.

O'dog doesn't want to care about the She but has interactions, conversations, comments, complaints, and complements and it's hard to blow them off. It's hard not to feel something (sadness, anger, etc.) no matter how hard one tries. We build those walls thick and high but there's always a window that we cannot close.

O'dog will mind-read a little and propose the She is probably thinking and feeling something similar. "I went to all this trouble and I still can't get rid of him. I hate talking about money, coats for the kids, or who's turn it is to pay the dentist. But what can I do? I've already divorced him."

Sometimes the O'dog wishes he could just move outta' here and not have to deal with the sitch and the She. Besides, it harsh in the winter and not great for the O'dog mood. But what's a dog to do? Leave the pups behind?

So while many prop up the O'dog with comments like "It's a whole new life. You can do whatever you want", they fail to see the strings (ropes, chains) attached. It's not freedom. It's parole.

Don't know anyway around it. Just have to go thru it. Just keep working on myself and not get distracted by the She Sideshow.



Where and when was that posted?

It's frankly not very inspiring. Honest and yes I relate but parole? No can do. Can't push through this much pain for parole. I have to think there is something better.

Well it may not be completely inspiring but it is real as he!!. Staring it straight in the eye is going to get all of us to health and happiness a lot faster than if we deny it.

People are on this forum because they're thoughtful, caring people. While some days I wish I were a thoughtless, selfish, oblivious person, most days I realize that I am blessed to be aware and to care. Awareness in our situations comes with some pain and being aware means we have to tackle it head on. In the end I have to believe that I, and all of you on here with me, will be better for it someday!!
Posted By: Coach Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 02:32 PM
Quote:
I can't believe I set myself up with the comedian guy to deal with another rejection. It was totally predicable.


Quit looking externally to be validated.

There is nothing wrong with you. You are not alone but it is your journey. Learn what it means to love yourself. You know you want it.

Cheers
Posted By: antlers Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 04:46 PM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Hugs A&K.

I'll spill what I'm thinking and feeling on detachment. Maybe you can relate to some of it.


Detachment is not a one-time thing but a process that happens in stages. It's like the lines at DisneyLand; as soon as you think you're done you turn the corner and bam...another long wait. There's another process to work thru.

This post-sep/div-coparent stage is not easy. With kids there is no clean break. There is no true divorce. O'dog guesses this stage of detachment will take the longest and will never be 100%.

O'dog doesn't want to care about the She but has interactions, conversations, comments, complaints, and complements and it's hard to blow them off. It's hard not to feel something (sadness, anger, etc.) no matter how hard one tries. We build those walls thick and high but there's always a window that we cannot close.

O'dog will mind-read a little and propose the She is probably thinking and feeling something similar. "I went to all this trouble and I still can't get rid of him. I hate talking about money, coats for the kids, or who's turn it is to pay the dentist. But what can I do? I've already divorced him."

Sometimes the O'dog wishes he could just move outta' here and not have to deal with the sitch and the She. Besides, it harsh in the winter and not great for the O'dog mood. But what's a dog to do? Leave the pups behind?

So while many prop up the O'dog with comments like "It's a whole new life. You can do whatever you want", they fail to see the strings (ropes, chains) attached. It's not freedom. It's parole.

Don't know anyway around it. Just have to go thru it. Just keep working on myself and not get distracted by the She Sideshow.



Where and when was that posted?

It's frankly not very inspiring. Honest and yes I relate but parole? No can do. Can't push through this much pain for parole. I have to think there is something better.

Well it may not be completely inspiring but it is real as he!!. Staring it straight in the eye is going to get all of us to health and happiness a lot faster than if we deny it.

People are on this forum because they're thoughtful, caring people. While some days I wish I were a thoughtless, selfish, oblivious person, most days I realize that I am blessed to be aware and to care. Awareness in our situations comes with some pain and being aware means we have to tackle it head on. In the end I have to believe that I, and all of you on here with me, will be better for it someday!!


It's Coach's Stockdale Principle!

RSF...that's a good post buddy! You are insightful, and I go along with what you're saying here.
Posted By: Dia Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:17 PM
O'dog - I might have said this before, but for the winter blues (SAD), try some combination of Vitamin D3 (label should say cholecalciferol), St. John's Wort, 5-HTP (an amino acid) and sub-lingual B12.

Exercise, too, even if the weather sucks. Music. And GAL.

These are what work for me.

Hang in there!

Dia

Caveat: If you are already taking pharmaceutical ADs, do not mess with St. John's or 5-HTP. The Vits D3 and B-12 are fine, tho. smile

P.S. Sorry for the threadjack, AK. I shoulda posted that in O'dog's thread.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:18 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quote:
I can't believe I set myself up with the comedian guy to deal with another rejection. It was totally predicable.


Quit looking externally to be validated.

There is nothing wrong with you. You are not alone but it is your journey. Learn what it means to love yourself. You know you want it.

Cheers


I feel this is really clouding my vision.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:21 PM
Quote:
Well it may not be completely inspiring but it is real as he!!. Staring it straight in the eye is going to get all of us to health and happiness a lot faster than if we deny it.


There is no denying it. I am living it but if I thought my future would feel like "getting through it" indefinitely, I'd give up.

Again, It can and must be better than that.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:23 PM
"If you are going through Hell, keep going!"

- Winston Churchill
Posted By: orangedog Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:46 PM
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quit looking externally to be validated.


You want some external validation?

You are beautiful woman. Your children are fortunate to have a mother who places such high importance on their wellbeing. You are a dealing with a difficult sitch but with hard work you will emerge just fine.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 05:47 PM
Thanks Dia

will post detailed response in my thread.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/07/09 06:34 PM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Originally Posted By: Coach
Quit looking externally to be validated.


You want some external validation?

You are beautiful woman. Your children are fortunate to have a mother who places such high importance on their wellbeing. You are a dealing with a difficult sitch but with hard work you will emerge just fine.


See, that and a cuddle is all I need. smirk
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 02:32 AM
Just emailed H that we are not taking him to the airport this weekend. We'll see how that flies.

Support needed here. Thx.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 02:55 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just emailed H that we are not taking him to the airport this weekend. We'll see how that flies.

Support needed here. Thx.

Good call. We're with you smile
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 03:02 AM
A&K, I know this stuff is hard. Your sitch is way tougher than anything I'm going through. You're amazing for your courage, perseverance and determination.

I keep going around and around about the complexity and variables and details and issues you're dealing with and I keep coming back to the same place. Are there some big decisions, plans or guiding principles you can put in place for yourself to simplify things a bit? I feel like you're just fighting endless battles and its just impossible to do that without killing yourself.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 03:08 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just emailed H that we are not taking him to the airport this weekend. We'll see how that flies.

Support needed here. Thx.

Good call. We're with you smile


Shocking. He no likey. Oh well.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 03:12 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
A&K, I know this stuff is hard. Your sitch is way tougher than anything I'm going through. You're amazing for your courage, perseverance and determination.

I keep going around and around about the complexity and variables and details and issues you're dealing with and I keep coming back to the same place. Are there some big decisions, plans or guiding principles you can put in place for yourself to simplify things a bit? I feel like you're just fighting endless battles and its just impossible to do that without killing yourself.


Well, I'm getting some things going. Staying in current house for a while because landlord reduced the rent. Not optimal in all ways but better for kiddos and gives me more time to assess what I want.

Have a meeting Friday about starting a class that will be immersive, creative and have me surrounded by artists who all have their sh*t together (hoping they'll make an exception for me grin)

Writing a LOT...which feels awesome.

Gotta make some money but hoping that will manifest soon.

H is looking like he'll be booking some big gigs soon so that'll mean more por moi and seeing as he's kept the hanky panky going and his married status I'll be entitled. So maybe limbo will serve me in one positive way.

Can't over think...just staying afloat.
Posted By: antlers Re: Me. Who the heck am I? - 10/08/09 03:23 AM
Originally Posted By: RedSoxFan
You're amazing for your courage, perseverance and determination.


I concur.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 03:23 AM
S7 just left me a message crying hysterically that he doesn't feel safe and wants to come home.

How the f do I handle it?

He doesn't mean safe as in physically (H is great with them)...he means insecure.
Posted By: antlers Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 03:25 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
S7 just left me a message crying hysterically that he doesn't feel safe and wants to come home.

How the f do I handle it?

He doesn't mean safe as in physically (H is great with them)...he means insecure.


Call over there and talk to your son. Base any further actions on your conversation with him.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 03:26 AM
Call your H. Tell him S7 has said he does not feel safe and would like to come home. Can you come and pick him up?

Just a pick up. Just logistics. No big deal.

Keep it to that.
I do not believe that the kids should dictate where they are when. However, I hate having to say no.

I'll call him.
Originally Posted By: Thinker
Call your H. Tell him S7 has said he does not feel safe and would like to come home. Can you come and pick him up?

Just a pick up. Just logistics. No big deal.

Keep it to that.



H was with him when he called. I don't think I should pick him up. It will likely get out of hand and have very little time and H is leaving town for 10 days.
Great, I overheard H telling the kids that I couldn't come because I need to go out and party.

what a f*cker.
He apologized for being an idiot.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 10:24 AM
Apology or not. What have you been doing to take care of yourself to build up your self-esteem?

He's an @$$ plain and simple. Your kids know better. If he's going to play an idiot and put you in a bad light in front of your kids, then you need to put him in his place and get the courts involved if need be.

He's acting like an immature brat. So what do you do to immature brats? You give them a dose of discipline. Show him you ARE stronger than him. Don't let your kids learn from a bad example. I don't care how great a father YOU say he is. If he said that type of thing about you to your kids, he's a bad father plain and simple. He's fooling around, yet presents you as the bad guy.

DO NOT justify his actions. They are what they are. Put on your big girl panties and protect your brood, mom!
Posted By: robx Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 01:12 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
He apologized for being an idiot.


- he is an idiot but he acted that way because he was hurt,
apparently he is still human (somewhat) ;-)

Interesting don't you think that some of your actions still affect him a certain way, ever wonder why?

I think you did the right thing by not being there for him and not bringing him to the airport, you're too darn reliable, time to show him that you're not going to be reliable for him anymore, maybe someone else who APPRECIATES it but why waste this gift on him.


Quote:
- he is an idiot but he acted that way because he was hurt,
apparently he is still human (somewhat) ;-)

Interesting don't you think that some of your actions still affect him a certain way, ever wonder why?


Yes, I understand why. He was hurt that whereas once I would have dropped everything for him and my kids, now other things take precedence and it because of his actions. I'm not saying it is conscious. But, he took for granted that I used to come home on a dime if the kids needed me. I would forgo anything and everything for him and them. They are safe with him and I am witness to their pain and carry the load 99% of the time. He had to deal with it last night and the know somewhere that he is the one who has killed that dynamic.

He still looks at me as a mommy figure, I'm telling you. He wants my approval. He wants me to hold his hand and tell him I understand whether it is his need to leave us or his running to OW or whatever...he has expressed self-loathing and needing help. I am too tired and too beaten down to help him. I'm sure it is beyond my scope anyway, though I do understand him and how he got where he is. I empathize.

But, I see that H=pain. Since I've let him back in recently I have spiraled down. I have just been so depressed. So for my own self-preservation, I have to get away from him (sad irony there).

As for someone who appreciates it, I am feeling a little doubtful at this point that those values are a) sustainable (given the load I need to carry) and b) the town I'm in. But, I am working on shifting my perspective. I am terrified of being hurt...just walked right into an emotional slap with the comedian (predictable as it was).

So, H texted asking if I'm ok.

And emailed complimenting me on something I'm working on.
I want to sit him down and give him an ultimatum. I'm not saying I will but I want to propose that we go in and see someone (he had suggested it himself). I want to just say, "you're all over me like a fly on sh*t, you want some kind of relationship? Let's work on it. Let's make it healthy. Otherwise, leave me the f*ck alone."
Posted By: Lotus Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 06:07 PM
I like that. It's succinct and to the point.
Well, he's leaving town for ten days so I think I'll sit on it.

He just posted some longwinded profundity on my FB page. He sure wants attention.
Posted By: Lotus Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 06:11 PM
or go to Retrouvaille. But they will ask if there is a third party. And they will say that he has to get rid of her first. Of course, that's not so bad either.
I don't think he is ready to admit that our R is worth going to Retrouvaille. But, you never know. He also really needs individual help. We have done Imago and all kinds of things that really clearly demonstrated why we are together and how we could heal together. It just did not fit with his image. Well, it is more than that, he is also hurt and scared that it would go back to how it was (me making him feel like sh*t) but, the behavior that everyone gets cuckoo about here now (comments to the kids etc) were happening in the M and I would react so I'm not sure how the heck that was supposed to be managed. He would act like a weenie and eventually I would call him on it and then he felt like crap. Kind of like now. Anyway, you have to DO the things that work.

The girl...she's thousands of miles away and looking back, not only has he been with me (barf), he has dated other women that he subsequently threw in my face. So, I don't think she is quite as significant as he makes her. I mean I think it is more of an ego macho European thing...I have my wife, I have my GF, I'm a stud...

Jesus, I don't know how I could ever be with him again...
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/08/09 08:36 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
...you want some kind of relationship? Let's work on it. Let's make it healthy. Otherwise, leave me the f*ck alone."


"And tell the GF to get lost!"

Yep. That's all you have to say.
Well, he came by today to do some work on his computer. I was about to leave and was not warm and fuzzy. He asked me what was wrong. I said I didn't want to get into it. I was fine. He insisted that something had changed...I finally went off on him about the comment he made to the kids last night. Then he went into how I'm out every night, blah blah blah...it was awful and I lost it and I was crying and I just told him that I need him out of my life that he equals pain and he sees me ok and he just doesn't stop until I turn into an overemotional psycho bitch. It devolved and I can't even get into all of it. I left. He emailed me that he promises he is going to get help this time and he can't stand hurting me just cuz he is out of control.

Later, when I came home, he was still here. I asked him if he has even contemplated clearing all of the bullshit and trying to deal with the hurt and the feelings between us. It was a lot of ya but and it is complicated and he has this girl and he knows it could end up being nothing but he feels so strongly and blah blah blah. And I finally told him to just go all the way. He has his friends and his new life so he can just leave me alone.

There was more but now, I have put it out there and I told him it is very generous for me to even offer putting any energy into this R given how I have been treated, that I have no illusions that we will be together, I just think it could be worth healing the dynamic between us.

Really, it disgusts me. The whole thing. I had to basically shove him out of here. I did suggest that when he gets back from his trip, he takes his computer out of here and whatever else he needs because I don't want him coming here acting like this is his place.

And the other guy isn't calling which is fine but would be nice to have a little buffer here.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 01:25 AM
Wow!
You said what needed to be said. Things will get better.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 01:28 AM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Wow!
You said what needed to be said. Things will get better.

Agreed. Now start marching forward!!
I think my financial dependence really plays into my insecurities and fear. He threw it in my face today. I am trying to have faith that my baby steps will lead to opportunities...I even told him that I think without that tether he would be at a loss, meaning that he gets so much out of that feeling of superiority and control.

I am doing and moving forward. Slowly.
Posted By: Lotus Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 02:43 AM
He can throw it in your face all he wants. The law says that half his income is yours.
Thank you for reminding me. I was ranting that he is not here for me when he was grilling me to divulge my feelings and he responded mockingly, "Oh can you put some money in my account? I'm not here for you, pfew."

I said "well, that is your legal obligation. Emotionally, you are not here for me. I am a single mom, I am on my own."

I was kind of wigging out but it is the truth. He just takes takes takes and he is desperate to know who I've been with and he just exhausts me emotionally.

God, he sounds like a pr*ck. I'm sure there are some redeeming things I'm leaving out.
Quote:
I think my financial dependence really plays into my insecurities and fear. He threw it in my face today. I am trying to have faith that my baby steps will lead to opportunities...I even told him that I think without that tether he would be at a loss, meaning that he gets so much out of that feeling of superiority and control.

I feel much better today after confirming a lot of what I thought about a financial settlement. I'm not going to end up in the poorhouse.

The superiority and control is a big issue. In my case, I think my W has felt I had the control and superior position in our marriage until she started making D threats. That's most likely right. I was a self-centered *ss who had unrealistic expectations about the marriage and treated her like a pop machine, here's a couple of quarters now take off your clothes.

So I don't blame her that we are here. Now, though, she's using the D threat to control my life. The only way things will get back to even in our dealings will be filing for D. Then everything will be on the table.
I just read MWD's article on how hard divorce is on women, more so than for men...

depressing.
H not happy about me refusing to take him to the airport...I don't know why it scares me to tell him that I do not want to do it. Not just that I have plans but that I simply do not want to.
Posted By: Coach Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 04:46 PM
Quote:
I don't know why it scares me to tell him that I do not want to do it. Not just that I have plans but that I simply do not want to.


So think thru it. What are you really afraid of? What are the reasons you don't want to take him? Are your fears and reasons valid? Would you let someone else treat you like this and still be going out of your way to do a favor? Think don't react. Understand and be solid about your actions.
I actually articulated to him that I have softened and made myself vulnerable to him and it has brought me only pain and mistreatment, that I need space between us to take care of myself.

I am fearful of taking a hardline because of the money and not wanting to deal with his hostility once we are truly separated. I am trying to just take steps to build up my self-esteem and support network so I am not so fearful (including IC and small career decisions.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 05:28 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H not happy about me refusing to take him to the airport...I don't know why it scares me to tell him that I do not want to do it. Not just that I have plans but that I simply do not want to.

A&K he has a GF. He doesn't live with you. You are not his chauffeur. Are you concerned that he might abandon you further? Cut you off financially? This is no way to treat yourself.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 05:29 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I actually articulated to him that I have softened and made myself vulnerable to him and it has brought me only pain and mistreatment, that I need space between us to take care of myself.

I am fearful of taking a hardline because of the money and not wanting to deal with his hostility once we are truly separated. I am trying to just take steps to build up my self-esteem and support network so I am not so fearful (including IC and small career decisions.



Disregard my question. You just answered it.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 06:46 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I just read MWD's article on how hard divorce is on women, more so than for men...

depressing.


It's hard for everybody.

Even in situations where both parents work there is going to be loss. The divorce itself is expensive. There are two households to pay. Insurance. Childcare. Yuk..
Posted By: Coach Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 07:03 PM
Quote:
I am fearful of taking a hardline because of the money


That's what the courts and attorneys are for if he won't do the right thing.

Quote:
and not wanting to deal with his hostility once we are truly separated.


That's what boundaries are for. If he escalates beyond that you get a RO if needed.

You have to believe that you and the kids are worth looking out for. It's not selfish to protect yourself - financially, legally, emotionally or physically. Handle it.

Cheers
Well I stuck to not taking him. Just tough. I will try to explain more succinctly later. On iPhone.
Posted By: MrBond Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 07:17 PM
AAK,

I understand that feeling of fear, having gone through that again. We let them put that fear on us and we have to shake it off and get rid of that control they have over us.

For example, I have a wedding coming up for a mutual friend of ours. But I'm actually scared to ask her to come with me. Don't know why, just comes up. Is it fear of further rejection? Probably. Is it fear of the constant wounding or cake-eating on your H's part where you give and give and he doesn't return anything? Probably.

You said no and that's that. Let him throw his tantrum.
Quote:
For example, I have a wedding coming up for a mutual friend of ours. But I'm actually scared to ask her to come with me. Don't know why, just comes up. Is it fear of further rejection?

Most likely she'll go because I've learned the married couples are the world's best actors. We were like that. We always put on a good front at events and then would ride home in silence.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 09:23 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
H not happy about me refusing to take him to the airport...I don't know why it scares me to tell him that I do not want to do it. Not just that I have plans but that I simply do not want to.


Of course it's scary. But it should be scarier for him. You told him what's what. If he doesn't want to work on the R and dump the GF then there will be more of the same.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/09/09 09:24 PM
Or in the words of Tallahasse, tell him to "Nut up or shut up."
I have to quit talking and start walking...
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/10/09 02:04 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I have to quit talking and start walking...

smile
Posted By: orangedog Re: Help please...kid related...please - 10/14/09 05:56 AM
A&K, are you out there?
Posted By: aliveandkicking checking in - 10/14/09 05:17 PM
I'm here. Just been living. Not that it's been easy but H is out of town so that helps in its own way.

Last night I had a dream that S7 was drowning and it is what too dark to see...I saw bubbles and then nothing. I couldn't get to him. cry

Then I had a totally separate dream where H and I were standing in the kitchen and he embraced me and told me very gently that is sorry and that this is everything to him...I can't remember exactly what he said because I think my real life inner voice was screaming "Noooooo...you can't dream about that!"

Anyway. I'll post when I have something succinct to say. Could take a while. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Oh Lawdy... - 10/24/09 04:07 PM
Well, basically have spent the time away trying to recover from the smack-down of the revelation of GF and having felt duped by H. He went back on the road, again I've been left with not enough money to pay the bills, kids really struggling with their dad being gone and processing the separation. It's been quite overwhelming. Been trying to focus on a believable plan to get out of this muck and stay out of victim-mode...gonna go work for my mom (which is close to cruel and unusual punishment) and it wont even scratch the surface. Working on tightening up my resume and seeking more lucrative work, also throwing time into my creative ventures (long-shots as far as $). Been trying to get back to brass tacks with H regarding the #1 priority being providing for our children above all else. He is living the dream and I still get emails and updates regularly. I don't respond.

Last night, he called late at night. I was really thinking about him and still have this damn wish that he's gonna "get it." Well, seeing as my life is a movie at this point, true to plot, he was calling to inform me that rock star wants him to work with him for next two years and will rent him a house on tropical isle and have him on salary. This is a "quagmire" for H for he realizes that the kids are suffering not having their dad, especially in light of our situation. Perhaps I would be willing to come out with them and school them there and...well, I said that we would need to discuss when he gets back as given the dynamic between us, I would not know what I was walking into, every time we're alone we're all over each other...I don't think I could go without clarifying what is going on between us. Plus, and of paramount importance, regardless of how much money he makes, we must address our finances and make an agreement, living like this is intolerable. I brought up GF, he got quiet, she's still an issue. It's "complicated" he keeps saying, not sure if I should pursue wtf that means...is she pregnant? He seems so ambivalent about her in some ways, even seems to be dating other women, does it matter?

This was our dream together and yes I told him, we always told the kids we were going to go away together...we talked about our R a little bit, and about what's at stake and for all of his admissions of f*cked upness, is he gonna do something about it or make huge life altering decisions while on the run?

I'm trying to look at the upside here. If he is out of town for most of the next two years and away most of the time, I get some financial stability and him out of my hair OR, if he does want to give "us" a chance, perhaps I take the leap and go to tropical isle and write and have an adventure with my children and we give it a shot...it is still not a full head on confrontation with "reality" but that may never happen.

As his world turns, who knows what he'll throw at me next? For now, I'm gonna proceed as if nothing is different, cuz for now it isn't, I still have not enough money for bills and my kids to care for on my own. Boy did I pick a "winner."

Thoughts? I'm ducking.
Posted By: RedSoxFan Re: Oh Lawdy... - 10/26/09 02:30 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
I'm trying to look at the upside here. If he is out of town for most of the next two years and away most of the time, I get some financial stability and him out of my hair OR, if he does want to give "us" a chance, perhaps I take the leap and go to tropical isle and write and have an adventure with my children and we give it a shot...it is still not a full head on confrontation with "reality" but that may never happen.

If you join him in the fog, what do you gain and what do you lose?
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Oh Lawdy... - 10/26/09 06:11 PM
Wouldn't know what was gained or lost until after the fact.

Best case, I get the experience of being on an island with my kids and writing, reconnecting with H in a low stress environment...

What I likely lose is starting my long journey toward self-sufficiency and a "new" life (though I could be writing/studying).

I'm sure it is as much a trap for me as it is for him...tempting as it is...and, more importantly, the offer has not been presented only alluded to and without any reference to our together-ness. So, for now, no.

To be continued.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Oh Lawdy... - 10/26/09 06:31 PM
Nice to hear from you.

(Sorry if I came off a little nutty last week.)
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Oh Lawdy... - 10/27/09 02:06 AM
I didn't notice the nutty. wink
Posted By: aliveandkicking Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 04:49 AM
Well, not too much new except that slowly H is telling the truth and acknowledging his dysfunction and fessing up. I've been naughty and given in to a few dates and intimacy. Problem (one of many) is he's got this faraway GF on his mind. He acknowledges that it is fantasy and he seems to be testing to see if the feelings are there with me.

Aside from the individual issues we each are battling (which I have a much clearer picture of), I think we both really struggle to envision and/or believe in a healthy and gratifying version of "us."

H requested that before he leaves for another extended trip (this time getting paid handsomely) he comes in to my therapist with me. I have no idea and did not ask what his agenda is. That meeting will be first thing tomorrow morning. I am nervous because no therapist worth more than a nickel would allow us to continue on like this; meaning, this has to come to a head. We have two very confused kids and we have to grow the f*ck up. I see his initiating the therapy as a positive step in the direction of that growth. That does not mean we will be together.

I am more and more okay with it going either way. Strange how when I feel the possibility of reconciliation looming, I am haunted by what I've been through and I am really attracted to other men and appreciative of my solitude and privacy and potential for growth without him. This is a bizarre and unpredictable existence. In my youth I swore I would never settle for a mundane, white picket fence life; as an adult that was all I wanted and now...it's a toss up.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 05:31 AM
Missed you!

I think the last time I saw you was on that convoluted thread of SP's. Bygones.

You both sound like you're committed to understanding and making improvements in your own selves and your situation. So good to hear.

[quote]This is a bizarre and unpredictable existence. In my youth I swore I would never settle for a mundane, white picket fence life; as an adult that was all I wanted and now...it's a toss up.[quote]

That's what happens when everything in life is pulled up by the roots. It's been a time of reevaluation for me. Keep doing the work and no matter what outcome of the toss up you choose, you will thrive.

My thread is now on "Surviving the Big D" but I stop by here to see the 'ol gang.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 05:52 AM
Hey there! I have found less time posting here works better for me.

Quote:
I think the last time I saw you was on that convoluted thread of SP's. Bygones.


There was a point to be made, I just don't think I was adept enough to make it...

Quote:
You both sound like you're committed to understanding and making improvements in your own selves and your situation. So good to hear.


Ha, we'll see about that...I'll report back.

I hope you are doing well, I'll check your thread. wink
Posted By: Thinker Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 04:52 PM
Hey, so you are "Alive and Kicking" after all smile
Posted By: MrBond Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 06:33 PM
AAK,

Glad to hear you're still around!

I totally understand your conflict. I'm getting close to a friend of mine who I would like to continue in terms of intimacy, but am torn about wanting to R with my W.

Right now my W is like your H in terms of not wanting to deal with me. She really hasn't said anything and continues to be emotionally distant.

I told my friend we could just play it by ear and when the time comes to make a decision, we'll do it then.

Never imagined in a million years that I'd be in this sitch either.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/18/09 11:43 PM
Hey Stuck, I'm sure we can relate but my sitch is quite different. H left 11 months ago but has never really left me alone. I was more like your wife before H left (though I was clear I wanted to make our M work).

Therapy today was a trip. He was really honest. My therapist was great. Basically, she called him out (gently but directly on his cake eating)...I'm going to go in to see her again and really try to hone in on what I want. He's struggling with what he wants and seems to understand that he's in a fantasy world. I'm the only woman he can really trust (despite his involvement with other women). Interesting stuff. I was pretty clear that I feel devalued and that he doesn't see me and my experience as of equal importance to his...I don't know if that can ever change, just listening to him go on and on about his desires and confusion, other women, critical importance on this planet etc. was turning me off but, he was there and owned up to a lot.

We'll see. He asked for a referral for a male therapist for when he gets back (he's got a long stretch of being gone, leaving tonight). I'm glad he wants to work on himself. In the meantime, we need to figure out what our boundaries are and how we can create some security for our kids (I guess that's pretty much on me since he'll be gone).

On the money front, he has gone to great lengths to ensure that he is earning enough to cover our overhead, risked losing a huge opportunity by insisting on a guarantee of hefty compensation.

So, things are moving along.

I really wish MWD would write more or dedicate a book to how the heck we are supposed to deal with the kids when in "limbo"...they must be the first concern.
Posted By: Thinker Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/19/09 12:52 AM
Limboland: When the WAS is outspokenly not committed to the R, but at the same time is not leaving either.

There seem to be whole lot of us living in exactly this place, but you are right. Though it get's talked about a fair amount here on the boards, it is never directly addressed in any book that I have read.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/19/09 06:00 AM
Oh my. Kids had the melt down of the century saying goodbye to their dad tonight. Finally all of the sadness and hostility came out directed toward him and he had a real tough time absorbing it.

I later updated him on how they were doing and he texted, "Thank you. That broke my heart. Love all of you"

Hmmm...that was not an accident including me. It is a mere breadcrumb and means little in terms of where we will end up but, with the money situation out of dire mode and the two of us really talking honestly, I am hopeful that things are looking up...I have a great stretch of time on my own now with the kids and it is a real opportunity to hone my detachment, work on myself and see what evolves. Patience has been the most elusive trait in this process. But, despite so many urgings from others to divorce that MF, as of now, I am glad that I have waited. I am so much more equipped to deal with the next phase be it coming closer together or drifting apart.

Wow. This life is a trip.
Posted By: orangedog Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 11/19/09 06:52 AM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
... I am glad that I have waited. I am so much more equipped to deal with the next phase be it coming closer together or drifting apart.


I think you're better equipped too. I've noticed in your recent posts you seem calmer. In the earlier days there were times where you were so angry and sad and you let it out. While it needed to be done, it wasn't the best state for making decisions. It's like you've taken a deep breath and have really looked inside. And dare I say it seems he is making baby steps in that direction too. Stay strong.
Posted By: Coach Re: Still Alive & Kicking! - 12/03/09 05:15 PM
Quote:
I'm digging being with myself...woohoo!

I finally feel in charge of myself and my experience of my life and that is a LOT different than being in charge of circumstances or other people...as you well know. Life is great, imperfections and all.



Glad to hear it.

Coach world is pretty good not without some struggles but nothing I and the Greek together can't handle.
Posted By: aliveandkicking 2010...a beautiful new beginning... - 01/01/10 01:49 AM
Just stopping in to say Happy New Year! Whatever your circumstances or the state of your marriage, please see this new year as the opportunity it is...find joy and peace in your own heart...I wish this for myself and everyone here.


Posted By: antlers Re: 2010...a beautiful new beginning... - 01/01/10 03:31 AM
Hi AAK.

"Please see this new year as the opportunity it is...find joy and peace in your own heart...I wish this for myself and everyone here." - AAK

Thank You, and back at ya'!
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Just stopping in to say Happy New Year! Whatever your circumstances or the state of your marriage, please see this new year as the opportunity it is...find joy and peace in your own heart...I wish this for myself and everyone here.




Thanks AAK. To you too.

Hope you are doing well despite where your M is.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 02:07 AM
Interesting. Spent the holidays with H and the kids on tropical island (where he's working). Came home and got pretty clear that as great as it was, it was too confusing and we need to sh*t or get off the pot. Laid down the law that I will not be married to someone who has a girlfriend and that we need to get divorced. Now, he has broken up with her, wants to go into therapy and is heading heavy handed in my direction...it is not just about what you say, it is about when you say it and if you mean it. He knew/knows I meant/mean it. Now for the tricky part. I am not prepared to settle or gratefully accept what we had before. I was miserable. So, we'll see if we can create a new healthy paradigm. If not, I have been through the abyss. It will hurt but I will let him go and move on.

This also marks the one year anniversary of when he announced he was "done," wanted a divorce and was "not in love with [me] anymore."
Posted By: orangedog Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 04:08 AM
Hi A&K.

I think you will do fine no matter what your decision.

My bomb anniversary is next month on Feb 14th (thanks for ruining that holiday). I don't care about her or the marriage anymore but I don't look forward to remembering the day and the devastating feelings.
Posted By: Lotus Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 05:54 AM
Hi AAK,

Good to hear from you. Nice to see the shoe on the other foot for a change. Just wanted to remind you that Retrouvaille is a good resource if you choose to work on the marriage together. It makes a great turning point, and leads you step by step to a better way of interacting. The website is www.helpourmarriage.org or www.retrouvaille.org.
Posted By: Coach Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 02:49 PM
Quote:
Interesting. Spent the holidays with H and the kids on tropical island (where he's working). Came home and got pretty clear that as great as it was, it was too confusing and we need to sh*t or get off the pot. Laid down the law that I will not be married to someone who has a girlfriend and that we need to get divorced. Now, he has broken up with her, wants to go into therapy and is heading heavy handed in my direction...it is not just about what you say, it is about when you say it and if you mean it. He knew/knows I meant/mean it. Now for the tricky part. I am not prepared to settle or gratefully accept what we had before. I was miserable. So, we'll see if we can create a new healthy paradigm. If not, I have been through the abyss. It will hurt but I will let him go and move on.



So what changed with you???

I am glad for you AAK.

Cheers
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 03:24 PM
Thanks Lotus. I firmly believe this is currently about our individual issues more than our relationship. It is scary but worth the risk for us to focus on ourselves rather than diverting to our relationship, DYKWIM? If/When we are two relatively whole sound minded people, I will look into Retrovaille for sure.

Coach, I think I knew when I went to see him with the kids that that would be our last bout of family life together. It was wonderful. But, it was blatantly confusing to my kids and for us...sometimes the limbo implodes itself. I think coming up to the anniversary of our separation and recognizing how little had changed/been dealt with really hit me. And, I also really faced the truth for me which is that I will not be married to a man who has a girlfriend. I cannot date while married. I do not want to share my life with a quarter of a person. It became clear that he was willing to go on like this indefinitely. He told me outright that would be his ideal...and, once it was spoken that he was in love with her, something snapped. And it is not that I believe it, it is just that if he is there emotionally then he needs to go physically. I realize though, that my setting a boundary forced him to make a choice but he hasn't changed. He has no clue what is reasonable to share and expose me to. He is still very much about him in a way that I think is pathological. He is doing and saying a lot of the right things and is going to start therapy. I hope it works. I hope he grows up and finds some self-control and some stability in his life. Ideally it will be together but it is not something I hold tightly to.

Also, it looks like he's hit a bottom and breaking up with his girlfriend and having to make a decision has plunged him into depression and anxiety...I know that on the other side of that can be progress because I've lived it, I hope that works out for him.

I suppose the main factor in my evolution has been committing to a creative outlet for myself. I am inspired. This has really altered my energy and the whole situation. So, I think turning on your own life is the best thing one can do.

If divorce is the path we go down, it will suck. I know that, but now that I've already been dead...I KNOW I'll get through it.

Thanks Coach!!!! xo
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 03:42 PM
Originally Posted By: orangedog
Hi A&K.

I think you will do fine no matter what your decision.

My bomb anniversary is next month on Feb 14th (thanks for ruining that holiday). I don't care about her or the marriage anymore but I don't look forward to remembering the day and the devastating feelings.


O-Dog, my bomb anniversary wasn't so bad for me, just brought with it a stark realization. For you, that can be a kind of freedom. Even if you're alone this Valentines day, you KNOW things you didn't know a year ago. You are better in so many ways. Celebrate yourself. I know it sounds trite but, clarity is such a gift that so many don't have (especially here in DB land)...your marriage is over, that sucks...what is next for you? I'm not diminishing the pain. Still, I think you are better off than so many who are stuck..
Posted By: orangedog Re: 2010...update - 01/26/10 07:13 PM
Originally Posted By: aliveandkicking
Still, I think you are better off than so many who are stuck.


True.

Thanks A&K.
Posted By: aliveandkicking So close, yet so far away... - 02/01/10 06:04 AM
I don't feel ready to go over to piecing...H has dropped GF, has altered plans and involved me and been spending lots of time (while he is briefly in town). He has started IC...no proclamation of wanting to officially get back together but we've had some heated talks about some of the ramifications of him having villainized me with his close friends (creating a real chasm for such a social guy)...and there have been references to his "stupidity" (his word)...

I just don't know how to navigate this. I see a very self-centered admittedly insecure and immature man. But this is the man I married and made my kids with. If we can stay married, that seems to be optimal but it also seems I'm settling for the same sh*t that I was unbearably miserable living with before.

Unconditional love is beautiful in theory but unconditional marriage is really a challenge. I was a "controlling, nagging, difficult" wife before, how do I get reasonable needs and necessities met and dealt with without hitting that nerve with him? (I'm not to keen on wearing the pants anyway)...

I'm really more the WAW at this point than the LBS (except of course that I have now been left twice by him)...but when push comes to shove, it is me who is willing to seal the deal and end this if need be. Oh, Limbo, such a mediocre place to be...no "I love you[s]," no promises of a life spent together no matter what...and frankly I wouldn't believe those words if I heard them unless/until some major work was done on his part.

Yes, I have changed, I have worked on myself, I have carried some major weight with relative grace...so now how does the new me fit with the old he? To be determined...
Posted By: Lotus Re: So close, yet so far away... - 02/01/10 06:11 AM
Yes, how to get equal work and understanding out of both partners....? Chances are good that if you wander around in the dark long enough, you will just get tired and give up. Face it, to get to a hoped for destination, the best way is to use a map. Follow the paths created by the footsteps of those who have gone before. Here's the website, www.helpourmarriage.org.
Posted By: aliveandkicking Re: So close, yet so far away... - 02/01/10 06:56 AM
I've been thinking about Retrovaille...Do you think it matters that he is having significant anxiety and emotional issues that he is just now going to start addressing in therapy (he's had these issues to some extent his whole life). Part of me feels that he needs to figure his own [censored] out. He will be gone for at least a month so we have time in our own corners...
Posted By: Lotus Re: So close, yet so far away... - 02/01/10 07:37 AM
That is a good question. Retrouvaille is very much a meditative and contemplative weekend. There is a lot of self-analysis. Much more, I think, than relationship analysis. Retrouvaille is not a complete solution. It is a turning point. If it works, it gives the spouses motivation to make themselves better and to be nicer to each other. From there they go home and the real work begins. The Post sessions help to keep you directed.

I think it could all dove-tail nicely with IC. For us, Retrouvaille helped to rekindle the spark that made us want to be nice to each other, and to let go of the mountain of hurts that we both were nurturing.

I'm sure different people get different results. And, it is only offered 4 times a year, so chances are good you won't be able to schedule it right away.
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