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Posted By: GoBison NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 07:38 PM
Previous Thread


Above is my previous thread which was in We're Separated but I decided to post over here as there is a lot more activity.

One week ago my wife moved into her own apartment. Which I helped her move into. Since that time I sent her a short text on Sunday saying happy anniversary as it was our 6th anniversary. Other than that I have not made any attempt to contact her and she has not made any attempt to contact me.

Do I continue to go with no contact until she tries to contact me? If she does? Or do try to make some contact with her and if so how long do I wait? We do not have any kids so that limits the amount of contact that we could have right now.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 07:57 PM
Hi GB
What do you know about the EA? How much do you know about the OM?
It does sound very sudden.
What does she do for a living?
How about you?
Where did dyou meet? How long did you date before you got married?
What's going on with her family that it's impacting your relationship?
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 07:57 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
Do I continue to go with no contact until she tries to contact me?
YES

Quote:
We do not have any kids so that limits the amount of contact that we could have right now.
Keep working on YOU. It is very important to get to HAPPY WITHOUT HER. People are attracted to happy people. This is your best method of getting her back.....It is counter intuitive, but has worked for many on here.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 08:13 PM
All I know about the OM is that it is someone that she works with. When I asked her about it she said all they were was friends and that he has a GF for three years. As far as I can tell it has only been going on for 2 months. Right when things started to go bad. We both have good jobs and make quite a bit of money however she is in the medical field and makes almost twice what I do. We met in college and have been together for 10 years. She was 18 and I was 21. We dated for four years.

When she was in High School her dad was an alcoholic. He was always strict with the kids and jealous with his W. He recently started drinking again and two weeks before she started to get weird on me her mom called her and was complaining about her dad. Her mom had gone away for a convention and her dad was drunk trying to call her and couldn't get a hold of her. He left voicemails for her and called the other kids and said that their mom was out doing some guys. Her mom called and complained to her about the whole thing and told her "I know that you would never put up with such a thing". Well lo and behold a couple of weeks later she starts to act weird. I try to ask her what is wrong and she won't say anything for awhile and then says that I am being jealous of her.

Recently I told her that she really needs to talk to her dad about the stuff that is going on with her mom. She said that it had nothing to do with us and that their problem was theirs and this was all about us and how jealous I am. I only mentioned it once and left it at that.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 08:20 PM
Ok.
Good info.
I think you need to find out some more about OM. I think he's a bigger deal than you realize. Don't snoop, but try to find out what you can from her.
Have you asked about MC?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 08:24 PM
Yeah I asked about MC and Retrauville and she would not consider either. I went to IC a couple of times. OM may be a big deal right now but what can I actually do about it. She does not live at home and she will do whatever shes wants. If I push anything about OM on her right now it will just push her to him.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/15/09 11:00 PM
Unfortunately, this is true.
One of the things Michelle says is that you have to find out what OM is doing for her that you are not. So you are faced with a difficulty here.
BUT he may not be anything. They may just vent to each other, but it's weird he was ok with out of work contact when she was obviously married.
There are two schools of thought and you have to decide what is best for you.....keep up with the no contact or contact on occasion to keep you in her head.....your call.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 12:16 AM
Thanks for the reply adb. I plan to keep the no contact until at least next week. She is very stubborn and I am sure that she will not contact me. Maybe this will give her a little time to cool down and won't be blaming me for everything that is wrong in her life. She works with a lot of people that are younger than her and they like to go out and drink a lot. While she is not old at 28 everyone else is 23-25 so they do go out a lot more. She also moved to the same apartment floor as one of her co-workers. She also likes to drink a lot and helped her to decide to move out. She had previously broken off her engagement.

I have not been in contact with her folks since this all happened and I do not plan to contact them about us. I did send her mom a text that told them they were still welcome at my brothers wedding next month even though W will not go. Not sure if it was a DB thing to do but wanted to make sure that knew they are still welcome. It will be a large wedding 500+ and no one in my family knows outside of my immediate family so they won't be uncomfortable.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 01:44 PM
I think a good rule is to be respectful but don't talk about the problems in the marriage. If they bring it up just say the most simple thing you can think of....."We'll figure it out" is pretty simple and vague.

Stubborn....lots of the WAS are exactly that.....
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 01:48 PM
Alright had another night of no contact with W. Nights aren't too bad but the mornings are a little bit rougher. I did get a reply back from MIL on the wedding. It wasn't a very nice text and they will not be coming. That was kind of a downer as I have always had a good relationship with them and never a harsh word. Do not know what W has told them but I am sure that she played it up real good and fed right into what her Mom is going through. Oh well it does not change my plan to work on my M. Continue on with NC and try and GAL. After the text last night and reading through some other threads I may want to extend the NC time out for more than the rest of the week.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 02:00 PM
GB,

It sounds like your wife is having an emotional affair (EA), at a minimum. If you don't have kids together, I'd suggest staying COMPLETELY dark on her, and just work on getting a life (GAL). I'm not sure how close you are with your MIL, but out of respect, I think you should send her a letter and tell her the truth about what's going on. I'm 100% sure that your wife lied to her.

I agree, the more you know about OM, the more you'll be able to know what you're dealing with. Prior to her "changes," what were her primary marital complaints, if any?

Puppy
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 02:28 PM
I thought about sending her MIL a letter but I know that she will tell W about it and that will only put more pressure on W. Her mother believes anything that she says to be the gospel.

There was really no M complaints. The only complaint that she really has ever had in 6 years of M is that she says that I am jealous. This has happened a couple of times and is usually when she is acting strange (ie starts hiding her phone or hiding the computer when I am near) This has happened probably 3x since we have been married and yes each time it there was an OM that she was talking too. One of them went almost this far a couple of years ago. She has a hard time not handling situations and when something comes up in her life she tends to find outside sources to relieve her tense. While none of these turned into anything major (at least the previous two) she can not deal with it in a mature way or in keep from going outside the M.

At times I do find it hard to trust her especially when she is doing things like this. She does not see anything wrong with talking to other guys for hours on end. It was my fault that after the first time that this happened that I did not set boundaries in our M when she finally decided to work on the M. That just set us up for more of the same. Right now she truly believes that everything that is wrong is my fault.

Things that I should have done is to set boundaries when I had the chance and not let her have her way all the time. I should have realized how sensitive she was with the stuff she is dealing with her parents.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 02:38 PM
Quote:

I thought about sending her MIL a letter but I know that she will tell W about it and that will only put more pressure on W.


Um, that's kinda the idea. cool To have key people in her life, that you feel would be supportive of the marriage, bring some pressure to bear to try and talk some sense into her.

Quote:
There was really no M complaints. The only complaint that she really has ever had in 6 years of M is that she says that I am jealous. This has happened a couple of times and is usually when she is acting strange (ie starts hiding her phone or hiding the computer when I am near) This has happened probably 3x since we have been married and yes each time it there was an OM that she was talking too. One of them went almost this far a couple of years ago. She has a hard time not handling situations and when something comes up in her life she tends to find outside sources to relieve her tense. While none of these turned into anything major (at least the previous two) she can not deal with it in a mature way or in keep from going outside the M.

At times I do find it hard to trust her especially when she is doing things like this.


Sounds like you don't have any good REASON to trust her, from all of the above?? She doesn't sound trustWORTHY.

Quote:

Things that I should have done is to set boundaries when I had the chance and not let her have her way all the time. I should have realized how sensitive she was with the stuff she is dealing with her parents.


I agree. There will be another chance if you play your cards right, to rectify that. Right now, I'd just focus on going dark and strongly considering exposing her affair. Until they get some help (good counseling), serial adulterers don't just suddenly "come to their senses," barring some religious conversion.

Puppy
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 03:58 PM
Thanks for the reply Puppy.

I think that I may hold off on the letter to MIL for now. Trying to let things cool down for a bit. And maybe let MIL cool down a little as well as she only heard of anything wrong in our M in the last couple of weeks. It is something that I will keep in mind though. And will do someday no matter what the outcome if only to help my W in the future.

Isn't talking to family members and friends a no-no as far as DBing goes. I have also seen it on the list that Sandi2 has posted. Just not sure at what point this would be considered DB'ing.

For now stay dark and pray for the Lord's blessing.
Posted By: robx Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 04:19 PM
no contact,
never contact her every now & then to keep you in her head.

You've been with her for a few years, there's no chance of you ever being out of her head, trust me on this.

Everything you have to do right now is counter intuitive.

You want to contact her: DON'T!

Contacting her family: probably wasn't the greatest idea.
Remember that no matter what she does and even if she is at fault, they will always support her over you any day of the week, she is their kid and you are just the son in law. I know you said they are good people and you can continue with that knowledge just don't think that they're going to side with you on this at least not yet.

No contact.

After 4 weeks of no contact, you should consider dating other women, another counter-intuitive idea but here's the thing: your wife has her own place, there is a reason for that, she needs her space, individual space so that she can possibly invite the OM over to spend time with and you won't be in that environment.

It sucks to hear this but this is usually the case with the WAW's. Space & separation usually equal time to spread my wings and sow my wild oats.

No contact for 4 weeks, work on improving you, go to the gym, get some personal counselling, work on personal development, regain your individuality, spend time with your friends, get out there and live life and be happy without her.

If you're sitting at home, wallowing in self-pity, being sad, begging, pleading for her to come back it won't work.
Posted By: beepee Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 04:30 PM
GOBISON:

sorry that you're hear and sorry that you have to go through this. i know how painful it is, we all do but this is a great place for you to get support and advice and help you heal.

i havent seen or spoke to my H since he walked out on me over a month ago. havent had any contact with him for almost a week now and it is very tough. i understand what you mean about the mornings being a lot rougher. thats exactly how i feel too. going to sleep is ok because youre slipping away from reality for a bit and then when you wake up, its another tough day to get thru and a harsh reality that you have to face. i understand it all too well.

i also have the same experience with the MIL. my H's mom was so good to me, never ever had anything bad to say to me, treated me like i was one of her own and then when H left, she was so mean. told me i ruined his life and he's gotten nowhere in life ever since he's been with me. it was horrible and i didnt expect any of it at all because she was this sweet old woman but what can you do, of course theyre going to take sides and be biased about the whole situation which is unfair but you just have to forget about what they say and think and be the better person in all of this.

im trying to keep up with the NC thing but its really hard. but im sure you can do it!! if i can do it for a week, so can you! and if im gonna make it thru another week, ill have a party!! you'll get thru this tho. we're all here for you. smile
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 04:40 PM
Thanks Rob & Beepee for checking in.

I am pretty sure that I can go a month without contacting her. Also no contact with her MIL. I maintain a friendly relationship with her brothers and have never talked about any of this. And will continue to not talk about us.

Robx - as far as dating I won't be going that route. I may go out socializing with women but not dating. From what I have seen you are a big advocate of getting out there for both PMA and for the spouse to see. But as long as I am still married whether or not my wife is at home or has even filed for D I will not be dating. Just my personal choice on this. I have seen where it has worked for others on here.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 06:11 PM
GB,

There's a difference between "contacting her family," haphazardly, and a planned, comprehensive intervention/exposure. But you're correct -- DB is anti-exposure. I happen to disagree with that, for a variety of reasons. I"d suggest getting the pro's and con's and making your own decisions.

I'd advise to either do it, thoroughly and the right way, or don't do anything at all. Informing the other family isn't something you want to dabble in.

Puppy
Posted By: robx Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 06:36 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
Thanks Rob & Beepee for checking in.

I am pretty sure that I can go a month without contacting her. Also no contact with her MIL. I maintain a friendly relationship with her brothers and have never talked about any of this. And will continue to not talk about us.

Robx - as far as dating I won't be going that route. I may go out socializing with women but not dating. From what I have seen you are a big advocate of getting out there for both PMA and for the spouse to see. But as long as I am still married whether or not my wife is at home or has even filed for D I will not be dating. Just my personal choice on this. I have seen where it has worked for others on here.


If you have seen where it works yet choose not to do something that works you are in the end choosing to continue doing something that doesn't work.

One of the DB principles is to stop doing things that don't work.

You want your wife back.
You see that she may be interested in other men or at least one other man.
This creates a fear of loss in you.
That's why you want her back more now than before.

Generating a fear of loss in her is what gets her to question if what she has been doing is the right thing.

If she has left you and is seeing another man, she has already justified and rationalized in her head that other men are better than you are, they have higher value.

If she gets wind of the fact that other women are interested in you, what do you think that does for her perception of your value? It bumps it up. The thought registers in her head what did I let go of that others find attractive & valuable? Did I make a mistake?

Human beings and probably most living things operate on some type of principle of efficiency. They don't do things unless they have to. Expecting your wife to come to her senses one day while she is out having fun with other men and enjoying a single life while you play faithful husband at home isn't going to bring her back.

It sounds like she has lost attraction for you and has found attraction to other men, you have to do things that generate attraction and flip those switches in her to be attracted to you.

One of things that killed attraction was you being jealous or acting jealous: jealousy translates to insecurity and insecurity kills attraction.

We can't force you to do what we tell you to do or give you advice on, you have to learn for yourself.

Everything about this process is counter-intuitive,
it's like when most left behind husbands think "...maybe I should buy her gifts, dinners, flowers, expensive presents and maybe she'll like me again"..... nope that will just translate to I'm weak, ineffectual, unattractive and have poor genes and need to do all that other stuff to get you to be with me because I don't have enough personal value as is to get you back.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/16/09 08:16 PM
Robx you make a very compelling arguement. Right now I have to work on me and not other women. Maybe after the month of NC I may look at things different and there is a lot of things that will happen between now and then to make that determination.

Thanks for the insight.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 01:03 AM
Well GB....ultimately all of this is your call.
I agree, a vow is a vow no matter what your spouse might be doing now. I am with you on that. The other thing I have with dating right now.....it's sort of mean.....if you think about it, your wife calls you and says let's work on it....what do you tell this other person....?? I would hate to be that other person who may really like you. I will say, in a few cases, dating someone else has worked. But MWD advises against it for a list of reasons and I tend to feel that way too.
Your call though.

Contacting her family....Puppy and I disagree on this one for the most part. I would say that I guess it could work if her family is a big part of her life AND her family would sit her down without judgment or embarrassment and help her feel better about working on the marriage. If they aren't going to help you then LEAVE IT ALONE.
Your call though.

As far as the no contact....I left my H alone for the first two almost three months of this hell when he was not around I did NOT call him, esp. at night. In the end, and he even said it recently, that was the worst thing I could have done. It just let him feel free to call OW as much as he wanted without one thought about me or one concern about having to hang up with OW because the mother of his child, and yes, his wife was calling. And this is just my experience with it all....again, your call.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 05:01 AM
Thanks for reply ABD.

Yeah in the end it is my call. Knowing what the right thing to do is the hardest part. I know that she will be contacting me sometime next week as there are some things at the house that she needs next week. I will see how it goes with her at that time to see if I should stay dark. If there really is OM and something is going on I don't think that it will stop her from doing what she is doing as she can ignore the call anyhow. If there is OM she will have to play that out on her end with out anything that I can do about it at this point.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 11:54 AM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
Thanks for reply ABD.

Yeah in the end it is my call. Knowing what the right thing to do is the hardest part. I know that she will be contacting me sometime next week as there are some things at the house that she needs next week. I will see how it goes with her at that time to see if I should stay dark.


Is there a way to use a 3rd party to help facilitate her access to the house? I'd STRONGLY recommend STAYING DARK with her at this point.

Puppy
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 02:00 PM
I am not sure if we need a 3rd person she will just be picking up concert tickets that I got her for her B-Day in April, sleeping bag and tent. I probably won't even see her. I am sure she will just call or text that she is stopping over while I am at work. So no real contact.

I have been looking back through the old threads is staying focused on Going Dark. I am not sure why but it seems that most of those that are on there it did not work for them. At least not to save their M.

While I have only been looking through the threads for about a month I am just questioning the success of such a method. Detaching is a good thing but staying completely dark for extended periods of time I am questioning.

Now those fews threads on there may not be a good indicator of how it actually works and there maybe some out here who have had seen more success in that tool. Just curious.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 02:08 PM
Based on your observation, which method(s) seem to have worked the BEST???

Puppy
Posted By: mac-ct Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 02:14 PM
Hi GB,

Don't know if this'll help but I used a third person to get something to my W last week.

The result? "Tell Ken that we need to work this out between us. Not involving any one else".

That's after no contact for quite a while. Don't know what triggered it.
The results have been great - texting, talking even meeting (will be doing that tonight).

Don't know if this applies to you or not. My 2c worth.

The going dark bit is for someone far more experienced than me. I was totally confused, flapping like a fish out of water and tried it (gunshot method - no idea WHAT I was doing).

I sure got everybody's attention. Friends were calling other friends to find out where the heck I was, what I was doing etc. But I got a huge wake up from one or two of the guys here saying going dark was just more of the same treatment I'd been giving W for years. I immediately dropped it and all of a sardine - "Houston we have contact".

Puppy has been round for a while (no disrespect Puppy) and I'd value his advise greatly.

Keep well.

CT
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 02:25 PM
From what I have seen is being detached and not pursuing with limited contact (Quality over Quantity). Most of the time it is with the kids that have made this contact necessary. Not sure if I am right on this or not. In going through the "Going Dark" threads those that are out there just did not seem to work very often.

I am not saying that it is not the right appraoch as every sitch is different. Just something that I noticed over there. Not talking in over the last week has been good for me as I have been able to step back on everything. Her on the other hand I know that it will take longer than a week to think things through and stop blaming me for everything. Trying to pursue her or push her in anyway will only extend that.

Time will tell it may not be 4 weeks of NC and this doesn't matter anyhow.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/17/09 02:41 PM
I haven't really looked all the posts to compare "going dark" notes and success or failure. I may do that...interesting research.....

I know for me, I left my H alone for more than two months as much as possible. After 5:00pm I would not call him. And we were only dealing with logistical things when we did talk or text before that time of day. I admit, it might have been easier for me to do this because I saw him often because we have a child.

But it was a mistake in the end...I really just gave him a schedule as to when he knew he could contact OW on the phone without having to worry about interruptions from me. And in that time is when the EA really flourished.

I stopped calling him at work. I used to call twice or so everyday to check in. Rarely was it important. It would be maybe 3 minute long conversations about nada or something funny, etc. Maybe logistical, but whatever. The point is I stopped it to give him his space. Later I learned that also gave him the green light to do whatever at work, without feeling guilty for flirting or talking with her at work. He didn't have to think about me in anyway shape or form because I stopped contact.

Basically, going dark, there are two ways to see it: Absence makes the heart grow fonder OR Out of sight, out of mind.

When H had his EA going at work and on the phone after work, when I was completely leaving him alone, I was out of sight, out of mind.

Recently, in the last 6 weeks to 8 weeks it's been more Absence makes the heart grow fonder.....but I'll be honest here because it really really matters.....that's about the same time the EA really really came to an end.

I think when there's an EA or OP involved, going dark just opens up the door to let them go do whatever with little to no thought of you.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/19/09 11:41 PM
So, what's the verdict? What is the plan?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/19/09 11:46 PM
The plan right now is to stay dark.

I received a TM from her today asking if she had any mail for her from work. She has never received anything from work at our house so not sure what she was looking for.

I just TM her back which was 6 hours after I received her message and said "Nope". Other than that no contact.

Staying dark is the plan for now. Maybe some of Robx or Gucci's social interaction later on. Social interaction just shy of dating.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/20/09 12:12 AM
Do you have a joint checking account with direct deposit? If you do and she's changed it, the first check before she can open her own new account has to be mailed, then rerouted with the next check....happened to me when my H separated our accounts....and then proceed to bounce three payments. LOL!

Ok. If you are confident in this plan then own it and do it up!
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/20/09 12:19 AM
She said that before she left that she was going to set up her own account and then give me a money back for the mortgage payment and other bills. It could have something to do with that but I doubt it as she is paid every two weeks and will not be paid agian until late next week. I am ok with her not setting up a separate account as she makes more than I do and that means that I have money in the account for the mortgage and everything else.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/20/09 08:19 PM
What's the latest?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/20/09 08:27 PM
The latest is nothing. Haven't contacted W and she has not contacted me. With staying in the dark things may be slow for a while. I expect to hear from her later this week to get some stuff. Probably only be a TM saying she is going to stop at home. I think that I will make some changes to the house before she decides to come over. Maybe paint a room or something to show her that if this is how she wants things then she will have no say in what happens at the house.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 03:44 PM
Well nothing new has happened with W. It has now been two weeks since she has moved out. The only contact between us has been whether or not she has gotten any mail which was on Sunday through a text message. I expect her to contact me in the next day or so to get some concert tickets from my house. I am sure that it will be a text saying that she is stopping over. When she does stop to get them I do not plan to be around the place.

I am sure that she still thinks of me from time to time. Just not sure how much and wonder how long she will hold onto the negative feelings. In the last two weeks I have been thinking about things and reallized that yeah I was contributed to the problems but she has a lot of work to do to make things work in our M. And I believe that we can make a good M but she has to do her part as well. For a long time it seems that I have been always walking on egg-shells trying to please her and not rock the boat as it seemed like she could up and go at anytime. Well that is not the M that I want to be in. I want to be in a M that I don't have to constantly be worried that W maybe out looking for greener pastures or in one that she isn't completely honest with me. Which has been a problem with her for a long time but being the "Nice Guy" that I am let is slide way too much in fear of upsetting her.

I really don't understand how so many people here can go on for years or months of this stuff. While I am doing my own thing and am happy with what is going on in my life I still think of her constantly and wonder when she is going to snap out of it. At this point I don't think that I am one to just wait on her indefinetly to see what she wants to do with her life and if there is an OM wait for her to choose.

I will continue to keep not initiating any contact at this point. I have also cut off contact with one of our mutual friends as she would ask her what I have been up to trying to get information.

I have also been doing some reading on some of Gucci's posts. While I am still realtively new to this separation and about one month post bomb, I do think that he has some really good points. And will be working in that direction in the next couple of weeks.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 05:36 PM
Here's what you have to ask youself: Am I willing to carry the majority of this on my shoulders for now? Yeah, we all want our spouses to want to work on it....but the problem is that they don't want to right now. So if you are saying you don't want to do that, then you're done. If you are ok with that and willing to put in the effort and the high majority if not all of it is on you for now.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 06:51 PM
Alright well I did have contact with W today. I went home for lunch and she had been there to take some things. I sent her a text "I thought that you were going to call before you stopped". She called back 5 minutes later and left a vm. She made some excuse that she did not have time to call as she switched work schedules and she was busy. Then she went on to say that she still pays on the mortgage and it is her house as well. I called back 45 minutes later and left her a vm saying that I did not care if she stopped over but that we agreed she would call before she came over.

A couple of minutes lates she calls back so I answer.

W: I need you to bring me a friends sleeping bag to my work

M: I have already given that to him

M: I don't care that you stop by the house as you also pay the mortgage but we agreed that you would let me know if you were stopping by

W: Why does it matter you weren't there anyhow and it is still my house.

M: It matters because we agreed on you letting me know when you were going to stop by.

W: Ok but I really don't see what this difference is if you don't care if I stop by.

M: Because it was what was agreed upon. So that is all. So have a good time at the concert and I will talk to you later.

W: Wait can't you talk to me.

M: Sure what do you need.

W: I have talked to a L this week to talk about D.

M: OK so now what?

W: Well you wanted me to let you know if I talked to a L.

M: Ok so what is going on did you file papers or what.

W: No I just talked to him about what the options are with the house and everything. And how this would get done. What do you want to do with the house?

M: I don't know what are you thinking.

W: Well I think that we should sell it and then keep paying on the loan.

M: It does not work that way once you sell the house you have to pay off the loan as they don't have collateral anymore.

W: So what do you want to do?

M: Well we can sell it but would have to sell our retirement accounts off to payoff the rest of the loan since the market is down. Or I could continue living there and you would pay a portion of the mortgage.

W: Well I don't care

M: Did you file papers or what is going on?

W: No I haven't yet. What do you want to do get your own L or what.

M: Yeah I will be getting my own L and you know what I want to do and that is not get a D.

W: Well what do you want to do stay Separated forever. Cuz I am not moving back into that house.

M: No I think that we should be separated for a while and see how things are once things cool down some. But I can't stop you from getting a D and if that is what you want to do then go ahead.

W: How long is a little while?

M: I was thinking a couple of months.

W: I was thinking I would file in a month after your brothers wedding.

M: I can't stop you if that is what you want to do.

W: Well it just makes no sense to me why not as I am not moving back to that house.

M: Alright well I am going to be gone for 11 days at my brothers wedding are you going to be able to watch the dogs.

W: No I will be out of town going to another concert that weekend with (Enabling Friend).

M: Well I guess that I can just kennel them for 11 days then.

W: Yeah just do that.

M: Ok well I will talk to you later then.

Well that is pretty much the entire conversation that I had with W. This is the first time that we have spoken in two weeks. I remained calm the entire time and did not get angry or beg her to change her mind. So I really don't know where to go from here. I just can't believe that she would call a L this quick and get things going. I know look at the bright side she has not filed yet. Only a matter of time though. She is still very angry and has a lot of hostility built up. Gucci, Robx, Sandi2, Puppy could use some insight here. Thanks


And yes ADB I am willing to put in the effort to make this work.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 09:40 PM
Well, I think the lack of contact is a bad idea for you for now. You are def. out of sight, out of mind.

Time to get back in her head and maybe her heart.

I told my H I would protest the D on the grounds we never sought professional help. He was mad at the time and at some points was begging me to just sign....he never did get the papers drawn up. But we both had (have) lawyers. Neither of us have talked to our lawyers in awhile and things APPEAR to be on the mend.

I think it's time for a different tact....going dark is not working.

What does your gut say right now that you should be doing?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 09:43 PM
Drinking large quantities of beer is what my gut is saying.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 09:51 PM
I really don't know what I should do at this point.

I am still thinking going dark as she is still extremely upset and I know trying to talk to her will just lead to R talks. And she really wants nothing to do with me. She is gone this weekend and I will be gone for 10 days the next weekend. When I get back is when she wants to file. That is about 3 weeks. I can contest the divorce on no counseling until the end of the year if I choose. Going to ponder that for now and wait those 3 weeks.

Right now I really don't think I have any other choice than to go dark.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 10:46 PM
Just thinking out loud here. This may have worked better. (Of course hindsight is 20/20) End conversations first. Avoid D talk like the plague. Become mysterious......

Quote:
W: Wait can't you talk to me.

Quote:
Not right now. Have a great day! (All said with a very happy tone).


Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 10:51 PM
Yeah probably should have but at least I know now what is going on. Or at least that she is still moving toward D. As I did not know what she wanted and I was trying to be somewhat caring of her I went with what she had to say. Would it have made a difference to her probably not as she already talked to a L. Does it make a difference to me yeah probably helps me detach more.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 10:59 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
I really don't know what I should do at this point.
Always do your best. Make a choice with all the information you know and you will have no regrets.

Quote:
I am still thinking going dark as she is still extremely upset and I know trying to talk to her will just lead to R talks.
It sounds like you know what to do.


Quote:
And she really wants nothing to do with me.
If you love something, set it free. If this is what she wants, why stand in her way.....

Quote:
She is gone this weekend and I will be gone for 10 days the next weekend. When I get back is when she wants to file. That is about 3 weeks.
Good time to work on you. What books do you plan on reading? What GAL will you do? What 180's will you do for YOU?

Quote:
I can contest the divorce on no counseling until the end of the year if I choose. Going to ponder that for now and wait those 3 weeks.


Quote:
Right now I really don't think I have any other choice than to go dark.
You have lots of choices. What is the best choice for you? It sounds like going dark is.

Here is a question to ask yourself:

Is it better to go dark and have her wondering about you, or to have you in her space and reminding her that she wants out?



Making permanent changes to YOU is what is important right now. Keep projecting happy, confident, strong, cool, empathetic...
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 11:04 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
Yeah probably should have but at least I know now what is going on. Or at least that she is still moving toward D. As I did not know what she wanted and I was trying to be somewhat caring of her I went with what she had to say. Would it have made a difference to her probably not as she already talked to a L. Does it make a difference to me yeah probably helps me detach more.
Information is good. I saw that you made a decision to end the call, then she manipulated you and kept you hanging on......
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/22/09 11:11 PM
Not too sure about what books I will be reading this weekend but I plan to go to a little outdoor gathering. Drink a little too much beer and talk to some women. Probably go workout somewhere in there and stay away from the house. The 180 that I need to work on is worrying about a possible D and what wife may or may not do in the future or is doing now.
Posted By: Eye of the Tiger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/23/09 12:44 AM
GoBison,
I'm just curios about what you said on contesting divorce on grounds of no counseling.What is that about?
Posted By: Eye of the Tiger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/23/09 02:08 AM
Actually I have heard about judges ordering counseling for a pre set time before going back.Is this what you were refering to?
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/23/09 03:00 AM
I think he may have been answering me.

I told my H I would contest the divorce on the grounds we never sought professional help. In this state, it's no fault so he would get his divorce, but his lawyer did confirm to him what mine told me.....because we have a child esp. if the judge knows one person wants to save it, and not every rock has been over turned there's a very very good chance the judge would say Go to MC. And then if that happens the judge may even selected the MC and set an amount of time or sessions we have to go to.

H wanted nothing to do with that. So he started an at home marriage fitness program at home with me as a compromise....not bad.....he doesn't want to do it anymore, but he still making an effort now.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/23/09 03:47 AM
I am from MN and it is also a no fault state. If you live apart for less than 180 days you can contest the D and they can not file until 180 days is up.
Posted By: Eye of the Tiger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/23/09 04:22 AM
I am from a fault state.Probably the only one.You need grounds or a legal sep. for a year to file.She has no grounds against me.So I could get it dismissed on no grounds but it could get expensive.It would eventually end up back in court.I was curious more about the counseling part.Having a rough night so far as you can see in my thread.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/27/09 03:10 AM
Well I spent a fabulous night looking at divorce lawyers online. Not exactly what would have preferred to do. Seeing as my W has already talked to a lawyer and plans to file in the next month figured that it would be best to start looking. On the bright side she is going to wait a couple of weeks and then she actually has to go through with it.

I am just amazed at where we have come in the past three months. Going from planning on having kids and moving to a new state to looking for divorce lawyers.

I have spoken to my W one time since she moved out nearly three weeks ago. Just praying for a change of heart for her and continuing with NC.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/27/09 06:10 PM
I have to say it now GB....I don't think the NC is working.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/27/09 08:28 PM
How long does one try NC to see if it is actually working or not? Do I stick with it? She spoke with a lawyer less than two weeks after moving out but did not file. She says that she will file in the coming weeks. Do initiate some contact before she files? Just to lighten the mood. Do I keep with NC and see if she actually does file? In the nearly 3 weeks that she has been gone we have had one conversation and one TM back and forth.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/28/09 05:41 PM
Again there are two schools of thought here: No contact....absence makes the heart grow fonder. Or Contact because you don't want to be out of sight, out of mind.

You've been very good about NC. How do you think it's going? I think the idea behind no contact works if they start to contact you. It seems to me she's been very content NOT hearing from you or she's trying to hold out longer than you. Which do you think it is?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/28/09 07:56 PM
I think that she is trying to hold out longer than I am. She is extremely stubborn. I am going to wait it out a while longer and see what happens to see if she will contact me. It has been 6 days since we have spoken. All be it not the greatest conversation ever. But from that conversation I could tell she is still hostile. Staying in NC land for now.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/29/09 01:41 PM
Well just journaling. Nothing new to report here. Have not talked to my wife for one week now and was the only time that we have spoken since she moved out three weeks ago. I will be leaving town on Friday and will be gone for ten days at my brothers wedding. It will be a tough time with everyone asking where W is. I was also thinking back to the week before she started to act distant. We had talked about starting to get pregnant after the wedding which would have been in a week in a half. Also she was complaining that we worked so far apart and that she only had a 1/2 hour lunch so we could not meet during the day to do lunch. She was also upset because when I call her at work she was only able to talk to me for a couple of minutes all the time because she was so busy and she felt bad about that. Just wondering how one can go from all that to wanting a D in a week or so. This stuff is so confusing.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/29/09 07:33 PM
she may have been saying that stuff and trying to make plans in hopes to talk herself back into the marriage. she may have been feeling this way for a long time...but trying hard to mask it with hopes it would go away.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/29/09 07:52 PM
Yeah that may be the case. Not being able to read her mind I thought things were going well even in her actions and with what she was saying. I am sure that she is still confused as to what to do.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 05:55 AM
journaling. Maybe my W is right. We may not have had the problems that a lot of couples do are only real issue is that she says that I am jealous which is enough. I am sure that some of the things that came across as jealousy to her. Maybe issues with her family just increased her sensitivity to this. Maybe we weren't meant to be together. I more than likely royally screwed up and for the last time. I can make excuses to myself all day about I only really "asked who she was texting when we were together" or "would ask why are you always texting or talking to a certain guy". Maybe we just have a different view on M in dealing with relationships outside of the M.

I don't believe that her trying to test me over the past two years to see if I would be jealous of her was right. She actually said this while giving the bomb. She was testing me to see because she was waiting to see if we should have kids. And I did pass however before she got pregnant she changed her opinion of me being jealous. I failed the last time because I asked what she was talking about with some guy on the phone. In actuality the only reason that I asked what they were talking about was because it was her b-day and he knew what I was getting her for her b-day and was wondering if he told her. Of course she said nothing about me being jealous at the time and held it in for two months until the bomb. At which time no explaining could get me out of it.

Pretty much just rambling on to myself and having a pity party. As it was another wonderful night. Have not spoken to W in 8 days now. I am still at work trying to get stuff done before I leave next week to go home and face the family without my W at my brothers wedding and have to answer the same question over and over again where is W. Also tonight I work in a bank and the cleaning lady left and turned on the motion sensors. So when I got up to walk around I set them off. So I had to explain to the police department what I was doing here as they searched the building.

I could have been out of here a long time ago but spent a lot of time searching on the internet about D and what maybe in store for me. I really don't want a D but more than likely in a couple of weeks W will file and that will be the beginning to the end of something that should have been so much more. And could still be so much more. Do I blame my W for what is going on now? Somedays I do somedays I blame myself. Today I am blaming myself. Somedays I blame her for not wanting to see a C or not talking to me before it got to the point of leaving. I blame myself for being this wuss of a man that can't stand up to his W and is afraid to speak my mind for fear of her walking out. I blame myself for being insecure about myself. I blame myself acting like this and seeing why in the world would my W even want to be with a man like this when I was so much more before.

I don't believe in D and do not want it. But I can see that my W felt that she was trapped in a M that she did not want to be in & only saw one way out. Maybe it is the lack of contact with my W or the fact that she is planning to file but I do feel that I have already lost. I will keep up the NC with and will continue to work on myself and pray to God that she will reconsider. Other than that there really isn't anything that I can do at this point. I also need to leave the BB for a while as I spend way too much time on here and there are way to many depressing stories.

I miss my W a lot tonight and wish that I could go home and she would be there.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 03:19 PM
Have you made it clear to W that you will not go along with the D? I don't mean start a war but make it clear to her that you do not feel as if all has been done to reconcile including therapy and on those grounds you are going to protest.....so with that, maybe now is not the best time to waste time and money on lawyers and such until you've really made an attempt to reconcile.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 03:36 PM
I have told her that it is not what I want. I have an appointment with a L when I return. I am not going to get into it with her over trying to contest it right now. Expecially since I haven't spoken with a L about things and not sure how much she can push it. If we end up spending money on L's not a big deal its just money.

Right now is probably not a good time to talk to her anyhow as I am having really bad PMA the last couple of days and am starting to think what the heck is the point of her being married to me if she truly is that unhappy.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 05:17 PM
Here's a great quote "I think more people would still be married if they realize that better comes after the worse."

That's why she needs to fight it out with you and work on this. Because (as childish as it may sound) you didn't make this promise alone.

Life is freaking hard. Why should marriage be any different when it's really the biggest part of your life along with children? People who say "It should be this hard, it should be this much work" are cowards. There are days when it's effortless.....there are more days when it's effort.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 07:22 PM
I totally agree with you ADB. Alright feeling better and ready to go on. Thanks for sticking with me.

How about you call my W and tell her what you wrote there? LOL
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 07/31/09 07:23 PM
Give me her number.

And of course I'm sticking it out with you. Lots of people stuck it out with me when I was ready to quit and to just start screaming, running through the streets.
Posted By: Stronger Re: NC with wife for one week - 08/03/09 08:17 PM
How are you?
How are things with your family?
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 08/07/09 04:59 AM
I am still here. Things are going ok. I have a lot of explaining to do to my family as to why she is not around as she has always been in the past. If Gucci is around I am totally on board with his approach to handle this. I am really getting pissed at her for not being there. I have never missed a family event of hers. I don't want a divorce but this her acting totally selfish and seeking instant gratification is totally ridiculous and I am really pissed at her. So I questioned her on sleeping her on sleeping with her cell phone under her pillow and taking her phone with her to the shower with her but come on that is just not right. And I deserve more than someone that is a little bit more honest than that. I am really pissed right now want to let her know right now what I think about her.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 08/13/09 03:48 AM
AMDB or stronger is what I think you go by now. I am still hanging in there I haven't contacted my W at all and it has been 3 weeks since we have talked to each other. She was planning on filing this week or next but haven't heard a word from her or haven't gotten served. I am really unsure as to what to do though. I would like to contact her and tell her this whole thing is crazy but am thinking that it is not the right thing to do. I love my wife but right now she is totally insane.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 08/19/09 08:48 PM
Well as of yet have not heard from my W. It has been 4 weeks now that I have spoken with her. As of yet she still has not gone ahead with serving papers. She did open her own checking account so it appears that she is still moving in that direction. It just feels like I am waiting for her to serve me right now. I have been getting out and getting a life as well as social interacting. The plan so far is to keep going with NC and see where it will end up. I really don't know what else to do on this. I would think that she would call to at least work on D papers instead of going straight through a L but who knows she is in her own world. The way that W is acting and nnot taking a mature way to handle things makes it harder and harder not too take the social interacting too far. It has been 10 years since I have been in the dating world and it is weird but there are plenty of fish in the sea and plenty that are willing to go for a swim.
Posted By: GoBison Re: NC with wife for one week - 08/21/09 09:47 PM
So I heard from my W yesterday after 30 days of nothing.

TM "Im gonna use the wii and take a digital pic frame"

She sent this and picked it up while I was at work. I did not respond to her. So maybe in another month she will come and pick up some more stuff. Other than that no change here. Besides the going dark stuff sucks as I have no idea if she is planning to file or what is going on. Oh well at maybe Favre will get hurt tonight so I don't have to hear about him anymore.
Posted By: GoBison Working on NC - 08/27/09 12:01 AM
I have not spoken with my W in 5 weeks now. She sent a text a week ago and that was the only time in the past 30+ days. I did not respond. I really don't know how long this is going to go on. She has not filed or said anything about it. I have no clue what she is doing and really don't care. I do care about busting up this D and not sure if what I am doing is the right thing as she does not seem to be wavering at all and calling me. Any thoughts on how to stop this silence or just keep with the NC for a while?

I have been GAL and social interacting and all that however I still want to bust this up and seem to be getting no where. She has not filed for D or anything yet as she said she would as she spoke to a L 5 weeks ago.

I will not call her this week at least give her another weekend to think about things. Jimmy Buffet this weekend for some social interaction.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/27/09 01:41 PM
Puppy, Gucci, Robx any thoughts
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/27/09 06:22 PM
Alright anyone have any ideas on whether or not to contact W. It has been 7 weeks since she moved out. One phone convo 5 weeks ago saying she spoke with L. And one text from her last week taking stuff from the home. Other than that notta thing.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/27/09 09:37 PM
Just bumping this up for some advice.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/30/09 06:14 PM
Well I heard from my W yesterday through text messages:

W: Can we meet up today 2 go over some stuff?

M: What stuff?

W: Money the house etc

M: I' out of town today.

W: Who's watching the dogs?

M: X


I really was out of town about 5 hours away actually. I guess right now is to let her get ahold of me again set up a time to meet. My time not hers. Also when I go be strong and confident.

I live in the house and she moved to an apartment. I am sure that she is going to want to discuss selling the house. Do I list the house or tell her to get it going with a realtor. There are no papers filed or anything and I am sure that she wants to get rid of the house so that the D will go faster.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/31/09 03:44 PM
I text W back today and told her that we could go over stuff on thursday. I have not heard back from her.

I think that she maybe going into the L today to file papers as she logged onto bank accounts and mortgage online yesterday and it is the 1st time that she has ever done that.

How long does one try things before they don't work. W seems to be still moving in direction of getting D. I have been completely and totally dark for nearly two months. Time to switch things around but how without it seeming like I am pursuing? Especially if she does file papers today or this week.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Working on NC - 08/31/09 06:32 PM
So i heard back from W in a text message:

I can't thursday.


So still unsure of what to do. Going dark does not seem to have an affect. What to do next?
Posted By: GoBison Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 08/31/09 07:48 PM
I have been going back and forth with W on when to meet. All through texts as I have only spoken with her once in the past two months.

I suggested Thursday - She can't make it. She says she wants to meet tonight. I told her I was busy. So I am thinking that we are going to meet sometime this week. She wants to discuss Money, Selling the house and I am sure filing for D. I do not want to have any part in filing but she maybe asking me to file jointly so that we can cut down on the L and all. Need help on what to say to her.

1) Tell her this is silly and that we really need to work this out.

2) Tell her that I think that this is the best thing as it was completely disrespectful of her the way that she treated me and her being not happy and immediately wanting a divorce is disrespectful and I do not know why I tolerated it for so long. I was a good husband and do not deserve to be treated such a way that everytime my wife is unhappy she goes looking elsewhere to be happy. And that I will not let my next wife disrespect me like that.

3) Any suggestions.

Thx
Posted By: undrdg Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 08/31/09 08:02 PM
HI gobison
I personally do not like text messages, if she wants to contact you then she should call you.
IF she wants to go over stuff let her initiate.
If you are wanting to contact her, are you confident that she will want to talk to you?
Going dark is always the hardest part of DB because it is implied that you are going Dark so you can GAL, but if she doesn't want to do anything with you how does she know you gal?
I guess the answer lies in the fact that now she has to make time for you cuz you are too busy with your own stuff to bother about her, right?

Do not go into #2 unless you are confident that she won't clam up and go dark herself.

My wife said something very interesting to me the other day, she said that we need to work on trust. I didn't quite understand what she meant at first, but then it dawned on me. She doesn't trust that when we argue my tone won't be condascending so she is always on the defensive from the get go. Comprende?
So basically your W has to trust you not to do trigger her emotions and vice versa.

You basically have to rebuild from scratch. ITs hard but not impossible.
You already know her and already have a foundation.

Does that help?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 08/31/09 08:10 PM
Well she pretty much has gone dark since I have only heard from her twice until this week in the past two months. Not sure how much darker she can be. The only time that I initiated contact in the past two months is when I told her that she needs to let me know when she was going to stop by the house.

Maybe something more along the lines of just acting like her going through with the divorce doesn't bother me. And she is free to do whatever she wants. I don't want to push things along any faster but I don't want to give her the sense that she is in control over my me either. #2 is more along the lines of what Gucci posted to BJ.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 08/31/09 10:18 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
... She wants to discuss Money, Selling the house and I am sure filing for D.
What you believe will be your truth. You create your own reality. You believe she will discuss D.... Guess what? What do you want from the meeting?

How about enjoying being in the presence of your W (no matter how she is acting or what she is say)? Look into her eyes and think about how beautiful they are. Look at her lips and think about kissing them. Listen to every word like it is an interesting story. Validate what she says. Do not agree to things you do not agree with. Ya ya ya, easy for me to say. Hard for me to do....It took me awhile to do that. MsR2C believes I am a dumbass. Yes I understand that. I validate her feelings. I listen to her story. That does not mean it is true, but I do understand her POV.



Quote:

1) Tell her this is silly and that we really need to work this out.
This completely invalidates what she believes. Validate.

Quote:

2) Tell her that I think that this is the best thing as it was completely disrespectful of her the way that she treated me and her being not happy and immediately wanting a divorce is disrespectful and I do not know why I tolerated it for so long. I was a good husband and do not deserve to be treated such a way that everytime my wife is unhappy she goes looking elsewhere to be happy. And that I will not let my next wife disrespect me like that.
I feel this is full of blame.

express feelings without defending.
hold your boundaries.
Project confidence and happiness.
Tough love. - Empathy, natural consequences

Less words the better. Listen, validate, understand. Compassion.

"I feel we can be happy together, but if D is what you truly want, than I will not stand in your way"

I can spontaneously smile (at any time) by thinking about a very pleasurable moment in my life (that occurred many months ago). Practice this before the meeting. If you start getting sucked into the fear of D, Think your positive thought and smile. And enjoy look at your W.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 02:57 AM
Well not sure when we are going to meet.

Whole conversation by text of course since she can't call

Me: How bout we meet Thursday?

W: I cant thursday

W: What bout 2nite?

Me: Can't 2nite

Me: Tomorrow Nite?

W: I work nites this week. Tonites the only nite I can do it. Y can't u meet tonite?

Me: I have plans 4 2nite. U aroung this weekend?

W: No

W: What time u done with ur stuff tonite? Can u do it b4 or after?

Me: I can't tonite

W: Can u tom morning? Or b4 one?

Me: No


I waited several hours before sending the last one. I mean come on she wants to meet now to discuss all this and she has to meet ASAP. It has been two months of no talk what so ever and now she has to meet immediately. I am not going to change my plans or take off work because she switched shifts with someone else for whatever reason. By the way it would be the first time since she has worked there that she actually worked on a Tuesday or Wednesday night. I'm not buying the I work nites all week thing. And if she so happens to work nights this week not my problem. I don't need to take off work to go around her schedule.

If we do end up talking I just going to try to stick with the business aspect of things and no R talk. If she brings up D or R talk I am just going to say ok. If that is what you want I won't stop you.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 05:38 PM
Well I will be meeting W on thursday after all. Seems she was able to switch her shift at work as to fit me in. I am nervous about meeting with her. It has been two months since I have seen her and 3 months since the bomb. We are meeting at a local coffee place. It is really weird feeling nervous about meeting my W. I am just scared that I will fall out of DBing ways. It was almost easier with No Contact as I knew that as long as I didn't call her I wouldn't screw up.

I need to go in there being strong and confident and thinking well whatever she says I will be fine and there are a lot of women out there.

All she stated before was that she wanted to talk about: Money The house etc

Not sure what etc is and I am thinking that she is wanting to sell the house.

When she talks of selling the house do I let her set it up with the realtor and everything or do I handle that since I still live in the house?

Also do I tell her that I do not agree with the D but say I won't stop her?

Other than that I will let her do the talking and validate her concerns if they come up. Trying to stay out of too much R/D talk.
Posted By: undrdg Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 06:07 PM
I would put the burden on her.
If she wants to sell the house then she can get all the paperwork to do it.
IF she wants to get a D she will have to do all the work.
You should not aide her in that endeavor.

DB principles are there for you to feel good about yourself. If you are confident about talking about the R then do it without sounding desperate or clingy.

YOu def have to go in there and be a confident man. First thing is first, you have to put her at ease about the whole situation.

Make her laugh.
Make her see that you are easy going and that no matter what she says you can take it.

Don't act indifferent. Act concerned but understanding. Empathize and validate.

Its the hardest thing to do.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 07:10 PM
Originally Posted By: undrdg
I would put the burden on her.
If she wants to sell the house then she can get all the paperwork to do it.
IF she wants to get a D she will have to do all the work.
You should not aide her in that endeavor.
I agree. Tough love. She wants the D, let her do all the work. DO NOT FIGHT IT, BUT DO NOT SUPPORT IT. Do not fight her, show empathy and understanding for her. VALIDATE HER FEELINGS. She is hurting.

"I understand why you feel D is the only option. I would prefer to work on our marriage, but will not stand in your way if D is what you truly want"

Quote:
DB principles are there for you to feel good about yourself. If you are confident about talking about the R then do it without sounding desperate or clingy. You def have to go in there and be a confident man.
Project cool, calm, confident, understanding. Spend time grooming. Hair, teeth, shave, cologne. New shoes, shirt, pants and belt. This is "first date". Time to shine with all the new 180's. LISTENING, VALIDATION, Picking up the tab, getting the reservations set etc.......

Quote:
First thing is first, you have to put her at ease about the whole situation.
Make her laugh.
Make her see that you are easy going and that no matter what she says you can take it.
Funny and charming.


Quote:
Don't act indifferent. Act concerned but understanding. Empathize and validate. Its the hardest thing to do.
BE CONCERNED AND UNDERSTANDING. She is unhappy. You want her to BE HAPPY. You can not MAKE her happy. She is projecting all her unhappiness at you. Don't take it personal. Just realize this is her POV. Listen to her story. Do not argue about her POV or her feelings.


Originally Posted By: GoBison
Well I will be meeting W on thursday after all. Seems she was able to switch her shift at work as to fit me in.
GOOD! You have 2 days to "DO WORK" and be prepared.

Quote:
I am nervous about meeting with her.
DO NOT LET FEAR CONTROL YOU. Face your fears. The more one tries to avoid something, the more likely it will become reality.

Quote:
It has been two months since I have seen her and 3 months since the bomb.
Perfect! Get this thought into your head "I am excited to see her! Expect her to be excited to see you". "I will not react to any negativity from her. I will just understand that she is hurting.

Quote:
We are meeting at a local coffee place.
Great! Can you get there early and get W's favorite drink as well as your own?

Quote:
It is really weird feeling nervous about meeting my W.
Yes. There is a lot at stake. Respect your feelings and channel the energy into positive action.

Quote:
I am just scared that I will fall out of DBing ways.
FACE YOUR FEARS. Put all your thoughts, words and actions into "what you want".

Quote:
It was almost easier with No Contact as I knew that as long as I didn't call her I wouldn't screw up.
We all make many choices a day that affect us the rest of our life. Do your best, do not beat yourself up. Go in prepared. You will do fine. We all make mistakes, but that is part of life. Each on is an opportunity to learn.

Quote:
I need to go in there being strong and confident and thinking well whatever she says I will be fine and there are a lot of women out there.
Go in with the this thought "This is the most beautiful, interesting woman in the world" I am going to enjoy her beauty. I am going to study her eyes and her lips. I am going to listen to every word she has to say with my full attention. I will remember every detail she says so that I can understand her better.

Quote:
Other than that I will let her do the talking and validate her concerns if they come up. Trying to stay out of too much R/D talk.
Avoid R talk like the plague. She her you have changes by your actions, behaviors and the way you look and treat her.....

GOOD LUCK! We are your in your corner. You are a good person. Everything will be fine.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 07:22 PM
Thanks for the feedback. Tomorrow night is time for some shopping and a few cold ones with some buddies or maybe some social interaction to up the PMA.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/01/09 08:09 PM
Quote:
Go in with the this thought "This is the most beautiful, interesting woman in the world" I am going to enjoy her beauty. I am going to study her eyes and her lips. I am going to listen to every word she has to say with my full attention. I will remember every detail she says so that I can understand her better.


This is one thing that I am not sure about. If I go in thinking she is the most beautiful, interesting woman in the world how that will help. I will be friendly with her validate and throw out some mojo but going this far will allow her to have too much power over me. Is it not best to think yeah I want her to be my W but she isn't the only one out there and there may even be better.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/02/09 05:04 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
This is one thing that I am not sure about. If I go in thinking she is the most beautiful, interesting woman in the world how that will help.
It will change your body language. Subconscious signals will be sent to her. If you really want to save your M, you need to do this. It also works for everyone else. Your body sends out signals about what you are REALLY THINKING. Trust me on this. Start practicing now. Your W may not change her mind, but all you can do is work on you and how you interact with her.

I do this all the time. I am practicing with everyone I meet. Everyone I interact with is very interesting. Each one has beauty I can admire. Guess what....I have lots of new friends.

It is only a matter of time till I can do this with MsR2C. She avoids me like the plague, so I am patient and forgiving.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/02/09 09:52 PM
R2C thanks for the reply. I will be looking up some body language skills and other verbal/non-verbal sites on the internet to come across more cool and confident.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/03/09 04:39 PM
Check out my book list on the first post of my thread. "Teach yourself flirting" is a good read.

Tonight, do your best, to not take anything wife says personally, don't make assumptions and be impeccable with your word.

Originally Posted By: KungFuPandaOogway
Quit, don't quit? Noodles, don't noodles? You are too concerned about what was and what will be. There is a saying: yesterday is history, tomorrow is a mystery, but today is a gift. That is why it is called the "present.
IE forgive W for all the past. Stay in the present tonight and DO NOT FEAR the future.......

Remember, you will be OK.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci, Robx, Puppy - 09/04/09 03:23 AM
Well had talk with W tonight. Pretty much where I thought it would go. She is still dead set on selling the house. Had divorce papers with and wanted me to fill the out with her as she did not know what all to fill out. Told her not to even bother taking them out of her bag because I would have no part in filling them out. She kept after on what to do with the house and that I should sell it. Told her I don't know would have to talk to a lawyer. I don't even know what can be filled out on those things as far as the house. Her lawyer told her she should get her name off the house. Well duh it is under water in this market. Either I talk to a lawyer next week and decide on what to do with the house then she can send it in or she will just have me served the way it is.

When she asked what I wanted to do with everything I said well nothing that you want as it is work on the M and said but if you want to go through with D then I can't stop you and I am fine to move on this my life no problem. She asked a couple of times and we were sort of laughing and she was getting teary eyed each time.

Then the last 45 minutes we sat around and BS'd like nothing was wrong just sat there talking like life was good. Laughed. She cried when I told her that I would probably have to get rid of the dogs without a house. She wondered if my sister was upset at her. Told her she really doesn't know too much but it really didn't matter as she will probably never see her again or me for that matter once it is done. She got teary eyed again and oh year I will see everyone around.

So now it is time to take her off my credit cards. Pay them off and wait for the papers. I will probably just tell her next week to send them to me and my lawyer will look at them. She actually wanted me to go over them with her so that we could file a joint petition and save money on lawyers. Oh no I don't think so miss spoiled brat not everything is going your way.

She did not think that it was fair that she would have to keep paying on the mortgage while it is up for sale. Wanted to right me a check for her half that was under water yeah that would work as money hasn't been split yet. She makes 2x what I do so didn't mention the possibility of alimony. So tomorrow I am off to get a new cell phone take her off the joint credit card.

She pretty figures we can get this wrapped up in the next 6 weeks as long as I don't argue over too much and everything will be over. I didn't say much just let her know the lawyer would worry about that stuff. I know it won't be as I can already tell from what she was saying that she is wrong with stuff.

So I am at a loss of what to do next. Sit back and let everything roll and the next time I see her it will be to split out things in the house.

It was probably the most relaxed and best talk we have had in a long time even talking about the D papers I had her laughing. I have been dark for two months and no change from her. I don't know what will work if anything.
Posted By: GoBison LRT did not work - 09/04/09 08:33 AM
Is there anything beyond the last resort technique?

Besides to tell my STBX to go jump off a cliff.
Posted By: GoBison Re: LRT did not work - 09/04/09 03:24 PM
Guess I must have had my expectations up last night when I talked to W because today feels almost like I got kicked in the gut again. I pretty much knew what was going to happen but hearing that she actually filled out the paperwork and will be sending to lawyer soon was tough.

Didn't sleep much last night either. Maybe an hour. Removed her from friend on facebook, removed her from credit card and changed passwords on bank accounts. Going to get new cell phone plan over lunch.

The whole frickin thing is dumb. One month she is happy (in her words while giving the bomb) trying to have a kid the next month she is not happy and wants a divorce. WTF

The glimmer of hope left in our M is fading fast. I have given her zero pressure during the entire process and it has not seemed to work at all. I have been holding my family back on talking to her and I have not talked to her family about it. I almost want to just let them call her and give her all the pressure in the world. But then what is the use if she doesn't want to be in a M then it will never work.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: LRT did not work - 09/04/09 04:47 PM
Hey GB!

It sounds to me like you did a great job. You had her laughing and talking.

I know that feeling of getting kicked in the gut. Projecting a strong confident happy man in her presence is key. Vent out all the negative stuff away from her.....It is important to get it out, just not to her......

Sorry you did not sleep well. The thoughts and stress that keep us awake are crazy. Sleep is very important. It helps us stay clear. I still have my prescription sleeping pills and take them as needed.

W does not know how to be happy. She is trying to figure that out. Setting her free to figure this out is a gesture of love.

It is also your opportunity to find your happiness without putting it into her (or another's) hands.

I have a good relationship with MsR2C's family based on no R talk with them. My father tried R talking with her. That made things worse. My goal is civil R with her. I believe it is important to keep them out of your R.

I focus on making positive changes in me and that alone is hard. Any reason I think I can change MsR2C? I can just control my thoughts, words and actions. I ask myself this question "Is what I am about to do going to make things better or worse?"
Posted By: GoBison Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/04/09 06:03 PM
Thanks for the reply R2C.

I am actually thinking of going a different direction now. Things went ok last night but just being nice and having a decent time really didn't do anything and don't think that it will. So I am thinking of sending her a text.

"Thx 4 talking last nite after not seeing you for for 2 months & then talking to you last nite I realized I don't want to be married to u or even friends"

This is all complete BS and she is a whack job. I am sorry to see my M go down the crapper but she is just not worth it anymore. I have put up with way too much crap and gotten little back. Some people are just purely selfish and that would be my W.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/04/09 08:03 PM
^
Posted By: Stronger Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/04/09 08:54 PM
Reach out to Gucci and Puppy.
Posted By: gucci loafer Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/04/09 10:28 PM
Quote:
I am sorry to see my M go down the crapper but she is just not worth it anymore. I have put up with way too much crap and gotten little back.


Correct....

Quote:
But then what is the use if she doesn't want to be in a M then it will never work.


Correct again...



Ok. Now that we have that settled....

I would recommend this..
Quote:
Tomorrow night is time for some shopping and a few cold ones with some buddies or maybe some social interaction to up the PMA.


She wants the other man. (at least for now)
If it were me, I would go out and start having the time of my life. Wouldn't be long I would be meeting some fine fine ladies that would love a funny, confident, guy like me. I would have some fun with them and see what happens and what developes..

Regarding the divorce?

Get tough and get a good lawyer and take charge. Negotiate YOUR best deal now while she is acting flexible. The best time to get your best deal is when they want out and have their mind on someone else. They will give you much more because they feel like they just want it over with... GET YOUR BEST DEAL NOW...

It will actually be an advantage for you in the long run. IF she comes back, part of the reason is that reality hit that she left with nothing. It won't effect whether she comes back or not if you get tough with the negotiations. Not a bit. It will actually get you some respect.

If she starts trying to talk to you about the divorce, tell her it is in your lawyer's hands and out of yours. Let the lawyer get you the best deal possible. Think of YOU.


Let her go. You seem to know this. I encourage you. The sooner you let go, the sooner they come back. It will hit her later what she has done. Many couples reconcile AFTER the divorce or just befor the divorce. You are going through the emotional divorce now, she isn't. That very well may hit her AFTER the divore. She will have to go through it at some point,but at her pace and not your pace.

Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/05/09 12:02 AM
Thanks for the feedback gucci. As long as I am not totally screwing it up I can roll with it. And I do like the female attention. Have 3 waiting out the divorce and they aren't cheering for d bust.
Posted By: futureunknown Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/05/09 12:05 AM
Gucci, that is awesome advice. Unfortunately, I didn't have it after my W left to pursue OM, but looking back, all the RIGHT things I did were right out of your book. All the WRONG things I did were contrary. GoBison, listen to what he's saying. In 6-12 months, you'll be so glad you did, regardless of what happens.

Right now, my W's relationship with OM is apparently dying, and she is pursuing me more. After reading what's going on in AFWAW's and others' threads using Gucci's advice, I know I need to seriously pull away from her. I changed posture and went on the offensive regarding our legal separation. She was surprised, and she made an excuse to delay it.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/08/09 10:12 PM
Not much going on in my Sitch. Had a few beers over the weekend with some friends. Met some new people nothing too exciting.

Other than that cancelled W's credit card de-friended her from FB. Got new phone plan and moving more towards being D'd. Few text messages from W on some stuff over credit card and phone. Wanting to know why I cancelled her CC so soon and how she was to return junk. Another text on asking if I went to an individual account instead of a joint account when I got new phone number and stuff. Well duh.

Other than that no contact from W over the weekend. Should be receiving D papers this week or next. I will have to go out and find a L sometime soon. Still holding off on it as it makes it seem like the end is closer.

The big question right now is if I wasted too many years on her or if there is a chance that we can actually work things out. Right now it's out of my control as far as working things out.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/09/09 04:00 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
....The big question right now is if I wasted too many years on her...
No. you spent the exact right amount of time.

Quote:
or if there is a chance that we can actually work things out.
There is a chance. You work on YOU and your issues. Become the best YOU that you can.

Quote:
Right now it's out of my control as far as working things out.
Own your 1/2 of the relationship. Be a man that only a fool would leave....
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/11/09 06:03 PM
Not a lot going on between W and myself. I am not sure if there is OM there could be or there could not be either way right now my path is the same. Dark as dark can be.

I may have some more insight on what W maybe going through though. Back when the bomb was initially dropped we had just started to try to have kids. Everything was good between and the best it had been in quite sometime. She even said so during the bomb that everythig was great just a month or two before. What happened during that time. Well the fights between her folks intensified and her mom called her to complain about her dad. Bomb and post-bomb W would say things that I did but where actually things that her dad had said to her mom. I tried to point out that it wasn't me and that this has to do with her folks didn't go over well. I worked on me, she moved out and no change, no contact, no softening. Why because she is still dealing with her folks and putting the blame on me. Found out yesterday that after her last sibling went off to college her folks have decided to get a divorce.

So instead of W looking at me for support which she has done for the past 10 years on everything she looks at me as well he is similar to my dad. If we have kids and things end up like my folks we will just get divorced when the kids move out of the home in 20 years.

I am sure that she is hurting from our M as well as her folks M. As much as I would like to reach out to her and be there for her I know that I can't. She needs to figure things out on her own and me keeping my distance will hopefully allow her to see that her anger is not with me.

Not saying that there is not things that I can do to be a better husband there is and those are the things that I have worked on and will continue to do in the future. Looking at her folks I can see how her mom beat down her dad and pushed him around. The same things happened in our M and I did not stand up were I needed to as I thought it best to go with the flow. If and thats a big if right now she does decide to work on our M things will be different and I will come out of this stronger, more assertive and with more confidence than a few months ago.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/11/09 09:10 PM
Any plans for the weekend?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/11/09 09:17 PM
Going out to the bar tonight with a buddy. Then going to some snowmobile drag races on the grass. Not exactly sure how that will be but there will be lots of beer and a lot of guys running around having a heck of a time. Should be good people watching. Then Sunday will be football, football and some more football.

How about yourself?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/13/09 10:41 PM
Well still no word from the W. I really want to call her and tell we don't have to end up like her folks and get divorced in 25 years. That if we actually talk about things we can work it out now and not be in that position later. I have let it go to God and haven't broke down and called her. Just over two months now since she moved out and very little movement on her end in this. Probably just feeling sorry for myself as I know we wouldn't be in this position if it wasn't for her folks.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/17/09 08:33 PM
Hey buddy!

I had a great weekend with friends.

How was the snowmobile drags on the grass?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/18/09 03:49 AM
It was interesting to say the least especially the people that were there.

Glad to hear that you had a good weekend. Just got back from playing poker at the bar with a buddy. Not to sure whats going on this weekend. Street dance tomorrow then I do t know. Might be one of the last nice weekends around here so good time to get out and enjoy. And or a last weekend to watch the girls our there. Really need to get back to working out but been too busy with other stuff.

Have a good weekend R2C.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/18/09 08:17 PM
Hope your weekend is full of good times!
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/20/09 04:43 PM
Well I just got served divorce papers
Posted By: GoBison Re: Gucci Fans need some insight - 09/20/09 06:14 PM
I texted my W this morning she had some bills at the house. Did not hear from her found out two hours later why when a guy showed up at the door. I texted W back after he left told her that I will mail her the bills since I just got served and have her address.
Posted By: GoBison Final countdown - papers are here - 09/20/09 09:05 PM
Looking at the papers the W put the dumbest things in it. Christmas decorations the wii she have me shared custody on the dogs. Have to go talk to a lawyer but looking at the state law the severing of papers was illegal as it was on a Sunday and the case will be automatically dismissed and we will have to go through it again. I really thought that she would snap out of it. Guess not so in less than two months it should be over
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 12:08 AM
As much as I knew this was going to happen I still wasn't ready for it. Just doesn't seem right or even real. I can't believe how rude and unemotional that she is. It's tough to even face people and talk about it. 6 weeks and it could be done 10 years of my life and then nothing. It is so ridiculous how easy it is to get divorced.
Posted By: Gnosis Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 12:25 AM
GoBison,

I just wantd to say, "I feel for you man." The more I read about how cold she is, the more I'm convinced that there is an OM involved. Its the only thing that seems to create a reason for her behavior.

Just wanted to let you know you aren't "talking to the wall" here.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 12:52 AM
Having been through this for the last 6 months I would say there is atleast an emotional affair between your wife and someone else. Because when there is someone else she wants to be with then you are only an obstacle to be gotten out of the way. Sorry to be so blunt.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 12:56 AM
There very well could be and there probably is. Not sure if it matters all that much anymore.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 01:38 AM
Sorry man, But here in indiana getting a divorce seems too easy also. That has not stopped me from dragging this out:) We will be at the 6 month mark at the end of this month. If it was up to her we would have been divorced in May and I would have nothing. I did get a lawyer who is more than OK with procrastination!
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 01:56 PM
I texted W this morning letting her know that her bill that I had at the house is for car insurance but that I contacted the insurance agent (which is her cousin) to let him know of the divorce and that we needed to be on separate accounts and to get a new price without multi-car discount.

Also texted her to let her know that when the house is sold we will lose around $100M with penalties on the retirement accounts and such but the lawyers would take care of everything as far as that goes.

Other than that doing alright and right now I just want to get it over with and never see her again. Got a name of a lawyer from a guy at work. So will be meeting with him sometime soon.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 02:06 PM
That's $100K on the house. M is a banking term for $1,000's.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 05:35 PM
Hey GB,

Sorry to hear about the papers.

How many dogs? Do you want one or more of the dogs? Dogs are personal property. I left both my dogs with Msr2c. She bought one more. I do miss the dogs but get to see them here and there.

Anyway, Good time to think about what you DO want and DO NOT want. I decided I was not paying lawyers to argue over personal property. I listed out what I WANTED. I left all the things I DID NOT WANT. I started over in new house, new dishes, new whatever. felt good to pick out what I WANTED.

I keep working on ME. Compassion, Forgiveness, Patience, Understanding are very good tools to heal the pain. I have no control over MsR2C. I have full control of how I react to her. I am manifesting my dreams while she is going down her path without me. I "set her free". I focus on my own happiness without putting it into someone elses hands. If I get lonely, I go out and interact with people.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 05:35 PM
I heard back from insurance guy and he is willing to leave it as is until house is sold.

I texted W "X is going to leave the insurance the asme until the house sells to save money. I will mail you the bill."

I have not heard a thing back from the W on any of the texts that I have sent her in the past two days. Nothing really to reply back but not even any recognition.

I used to go over lunch to church everyday and pray for my M and my W on my lunch hour but I don't have the motivation to do that anymore at least not today. I am not even sure anymore as to why I want to save my M. Probably all that is left is the loss of what could have been or what should have been. That and going home to no one and not being able to share my life with my W.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 05:40 PM
There are two dogs. She lives in an apartment and won't be able to take the dogs. It's tough to split them up as one of them goes crazy once he is away from the other. The other stuff I really don't care about. There really isn't much value in any of it anyhow. What makes me mad is that she just goes and lists everything that she wants including stuff that she gave me as a gift and I get what ever is leftover. The only reason that I would fight for anything is so that it will gain some respect.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 05:45 PM
The best advise I can give is "fake it till you make it." I am in charge of my own happiness. I enjoy every minute of every day. IE- I wake up in the morning. I take two really deep breaths and enjoy the feeling of breathing. I notice how nice the sheets feel. If I don't like the feeling, I go buy sheets that feel and look good to me! Nice artwork in my bedroom to enjoy. The rituals I have in place bring me happiness. Showering in the morning is great. I enjoy the hot water running over my body. I have multiple shampoo's that smell nice to me! Taking time to enjoy all the small things in my life is an amazing shift from dwelling on the things that are lacking......I enjoy interacting with everyone I encounter. I even enjoy MsR2C even though she does not speak to me. I understand she is in pain. I don't take it personally. It has to take a lot of unhappiness to break a family in half. I hope she finds her happiness.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 05:56 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
There are two dogs. She lives in an apartment and won't be able to take the dogs.
What about YOU? Do you want them? Are they worth a fight? Give them to her if you don't want them. State that you want them if you do.

Quote:
It's tough to split them up as one of them goes crazy once he is away from the other.
Let her have the one that goes crazy then...Keep the well behaved one LOL

Quote:
The other stuff I really don't care about. There really isn't much value in any of it anyhow.


Quote:
What makes me mad
It is OK to me angry. Channel the anger into productive activity.

Quote:
is that she just goes and lists everything that she wants including stuff that she gave me as a gift and I get what ever is leftover.
Ask for what YOU want. I sorted our things into three groups. I use/like it much more frequently than her - IE mine. She uses/likes it much more frequently than me - IE hers. Things we both use about the same. - ours.

Quote:
The only reason that I would fight for anything is so that it will gain some respect.
I just manned up and said "I want you to be happy. If this is what you want, I will not stand in your way."
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/21/09 08:48 PM
Thanks R2C. I will have to think about the stuff. I really don't care all that much.

In as little as two weeks it could be all over. As long as everything is agreed upon it could be over in that short of time. 10 years no real talk about the M or anything just end it. So much for our families, so much about our future just done. Wow the legal system is really great for things that matter.

I have been in pretty much no contact mode the last two months that she has been off in her fantasy land. I really want to contact her now and try and reason with her. Not sure if it would make a difference but what do I really have to lose.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/22/09 03:06 PM
Spoke with lawyer today and he said that it will ne a pretty easy case. We can probably be done with it all two weeks after I respond. I have until oct 21 to respond. So I need to find a way for W to file for extension drop the case or go to retro. Chances are getting pretty slim at this point. She doesn't even respond to business type stuff anymore. I have a db coaching session in an hour so I will see how that goes.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/22/09 05:38 PM
Let us know how the session went.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/22/09 08:07 PM
He says it the bottom of the ninth and not much time left. Told me to invite her to take the dogs to the dog park, discuss separation of things and give her what she wants as long as it's nothing too important. I texted her and said I was going to thedig park tonight if she wanted to go. No response.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/22/09 09:20 PM
I agree with everything he said, except that there is not much time left. I believe you have plenty of time (IE patience). What do you think?

I feel that "WE" need to "Set our spouses free" and work on our own issues. Our spouses "held up a mirror" and let us know what we need to change.

Text her again- "I would like to discuss how we divide our things. I would like to do this tonight while I walk the dogs. If that does not work for you, when would be a good time for you?"

This shows you are supporting her decision without trying to control her. You will be able to listen and validate her during the discussion. You will not have to agree to anything tonight, but have the opportunity to validate her.


Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/22/09 11:31 PM
She did reply back on taking the dogs to the park just saying that she hasto work tonight. So up for any other opinions. May ask her later in the week to talk about splitting things up. I am also going to be out of town in 3 weeks for a week I may ask her to watch the dogs. When get back to town the d should be final.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 02:20 PM
I text W this morning and let her know that I will be meeting again with L and will get back with a response and that there should not be any major changes so we could have it all wrapped up by the end of October. Also told her to let me know when would be a good time to meet and get her the things that she wants. I also told her that I would meet with her brother to give him her boat.

I got a text back "k".
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 04:18 PM
Would it hurt things to ask my W to either postpone the divorce proceedings for a couple of weeks to attend Retrauville or it may be possible to get into one this weekend. I had asked her to attend several months ago and she would not go. She will probably say no to going.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 04:24 PM
In my state I have the option to respond with a request for court ordered counseling, or an extension with the express purpose to see if we could reconcile.
Is anything like that available to you?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 04:26 PM
It can only be filed by her as the petitioner.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 05:06 PM
I emailed one of the local retro groups to see if they have an opening for this weekend if not the next one will be after the time the divorce would be final. I was thinkng of writing her and telling her

"We both know that our old marriage is over and neither of us want to go back to that marriage. However this is the biggest change that either of us will make in our lives and I would like to see if there is a chance to make a new and better marriage between us before we take this step. There is a weekend retro conference this weekend in xx. If we can not make that one the next one is in xy on 11/6. This weekend could help the both of is with some kind of closure as we will know that we made an attempt to work things out. I do not look at this weekend as a way to magically make things between us better but to give us a way to better communicateeven if that is just to split things up and taking care of the dogs. The weekend is put on by the church and a priest is present but it is presented by couples who have been where we are and tell their stories with no preaching on the churches stance. I will pay for the wekend out of proceeds from my share of things when they are split up. Let me know of yours thought."
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 05:27 PM
There is an opening for this weekend to Retro but need to get back with them as soon as possible.

Any thoughts on the above request to W.
Posted By: volleydog Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 05:56 PM
I'm not sure this is the best advice but what do you have to lose by sending it? I think it is pretty well written and is to the point.

Quote:
This weekend could help the both of is with some kind of closure as we will know that we made an attempt to work things out.


I might take out this since she may already think she's made enough of an attempt.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:00 PM
I have not sent it yet but have taken out "as we will know that we made an attempt to work things out" I left the rest of the sentence in there.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:00 PM
GB
What state are you in?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:00 PM
Minnesota
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:14 PM
GB this is from your state's maintained Web site:

Subd. 2.Dispute over irretrievable breakdown.If one of the parties has denied under oath or affirmation that the marriage is irretrievably broken, the court shall consider all relevant factors, including the circumstances that gave rise to the commencement of the proceeding and the prospect of reconciliation, and shall make a finding whether the marriage is irretrievably broken.

A finding of irretrievable breakdown under this subdivision is a determination that there is no reasonable prospect of reconciliation. The finding must be supported by evidence that (i) the parties have lived separate and apart for a period of not less than 180 days immediately preceding the commencement of the proceeding, or (ii) there is serious marital discord adversely affecting the attitude of one or both of the parties toward the marriage.

Based on number one, you could deny the marriage is irretrievably broken and request the court send you to marriage counseling and you pay for it, not the courts or your wife. Most courts believe it or not, will lean toward reconciliation. If you had children, you'd get it easy. But since you don't, this is a shot in the dark. Take it. Deny the marriage is broken and ask for the counseling.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:20 PM
I will try to do this. I have seen this but the lawyer does not look at this as a very viable option. Of course he is a lawyer and his job is to get it through the courts and paid as soon as possible.

Stronger what are your thoughts on sending that to my W.

Also if I push for the separation until the end of 6 months will this not just piss off my W.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:27 PM
I emailed L back to see what the chances are again of having this contested and if he has had any luck with it.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 06:56 PM
Stronger,

L called and said that with the OR statement in there is nothing that I can do besides taking it to trial which would push it out about 8 months until the next available date. In doing this she would have to disagree with just about everything that I put in my response and would cost a lot more in legal fees. So that is an option if I want to push things on that end of it.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 08:05 PM
Well I sent it. God willing she will say yes. It maybe a backslide from giving her time and space but I have done that the last two months with no pressure at all and she has pushed for divorce. So time to change things up a little at least.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/23/09 11:54 PM
I think you should have sent the email, yes. So good job there. Really what do you have to lose? And fight the divorce. Legal fees may be worth it. It would be for me.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 12:09 AM
I am thinking about it. I do think it is the right thing to do.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 05:16 AM
So I called W tonight after not hearing from her on the text. Well she is a no go on the retro weekend not a big surprise. She was mad at me though for not calling over the past two months and not trying to contact her and going out and having fun. That is why she filed. We talked for two hours mostly me telling her how things could be and how we could be better than we have been in the past. She is still set on going through with things and doesn't want to date or anything. I am pretty sure that she does not have another guy right now. And just wants to be on her own. I did ask her if it would be alright if I called her and she was fine with that as long as it wasn't 15 times a day. She said some real harsh things about not ever missing me or didn't care about me at all but I pretty sure she was just saying those things otherwise age wouldn't have been on the phone for two hours.

So I think the thing is to slightly apply a little pressure and give her a call every few days. No relationship talk just some bs and see where things go.

Things weren't real promising but they could have been worse.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 12:11 PM
GB,
I don't know if you remember this, but I told you a while back...some DBers need to go dark. Some shouldn't. I thought in your case, going dark was a bad idea. I don't know why but I got the impression she left to see if you gave a crap. Going dark was an indication to her that you didn't.

So yes, try to make some relaxing and calm contact and keep it LOW KEY.

Fight the D. That's what I am doing and advise anyone here to do the same.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 02:19 PM
Yeah I am going to fight the D as much as I can. She has known that I do care about her but maybe she just wanted to see how much. I let her know last night that I do care and that I always have. I wanted to call her but I was giving her the space she wanted. She was mad because I was going out and not sitting at home pining over her.

She said several times that I could go find someone better than her. I said yeah you are right I could go out and find someone that I could get along with pretty easily and so could she. But I made a vow to her and I intend to keep it no matter how much I have to fight for it.

I told her that between 5-7 years of marriage is really tough and top of the fact that we moved to a new city and had virtually no friends here it made things tough between us. And that I had thought about leaving as well but knew that we could work through it and probably should have gone to talk to someone.

I laid into her a couple of times when she started to come up with BS. Tried to tell me that it was over a year ago when she wanted to have kids and stuff let her know that was completely wrong and it was only 4 months ago. Tried to say that I was controlling because of the city we used to live in was where I wanted to be. Called BS again because be are now in the city she has always wanted to live in. I also told her it was BS that when she gets mad at me she won't say anything and just assumes that I am jealous and then she starts flirting with some guy at work. Tries to say it was nothing.

Says she gave me hints in October that she wasn't happy. I said well maybe you should talk to me on stuff like that. I pointed out to her that she told me only 3 months ago that she was happy all spring but things just changed quickly. She said she doesn't remember saying that. This from the woman how can remember every word that I have ever said to her.

She did not agree to extending the filing date or anything but I did stand up to her and let her know I was not going to just roll over and let her change all are history around.

Maybe it made things better maybe it made things worse I don't know. But she knows where I stand on everything. And that I have changed over the past two months and am no longer just going to take her crap.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 05:05 PM
Hey GB,



Yes, I know you are hurt. Yes, I know this is not fair. Your personal growth during this difficult time is key to saving the R. Do you want to fight with her, or support her during this difficult time in her life? How compassionate and understanding were you during your conversation? Did you validate her? How was your tone?

No matter how crazy or wrong her statements are, it is KEY to validate her. That does not mean you agree. Listen, then reply in a calm, cool and relaxed tone:


"Yes, I understand"
"MMMM"
"I can see why you think XYZ"
"It must be hard to feel XYZ"

"Yes, I can see why you felt it was over when we could not agree on having a baby"
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 05:15 PM
GB
Ready2Change is on the money here.
If you do talk to her again, maybe validate this time? Again, it's not giving into her, it's just letting her know you do understand her and really don't we all just want someone to "get" us?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 05:41 PM
I did validate how she felt. I even agreed with her on things and that felt the same way at times. However when she stated things that were not true I did call her on them. Things that were not her feeling just actual events. For the most part I was calm. There was a few times that I did get a little louder but calmed back down quickly. Yeah I am hurt and let her know a few things were she has hurt me but did not dwell on them. For the most part we have never had a talk like that. It was always just her telling me what I have done wrong and nothing else. Maybe it was a big backslide I don't know. The plan is not to talk about R or D things too much and to actually talk like normal people.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 05:46 PM
I did call her today and left vm telling her that I was going to run to the dog park tonight to see if she wants to go. If I don't hear anyhting from her today I will try to give her a call on sat or sun to see how her weekend at work was.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 06:49 PM
So,

What are her major complaints about you? Would you mind listing them here for us?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 07:35 PM
The only complaints that she has ever had was that I was jealous and controlling.

I am not sure how she sees me as controlling. Everything that we did was her idea. Moved to new city, held off on kids, she bought her car without me even seeing it, she went out with friends whenever.

Jealousy - I told her that I understand that she thinks that I am jealous and sometimes it may come across that I am that I really am not and that I know she would never cheat on me. Right after the bomb my IC told me to tell her that yes I was jealous and tell her things that she would perceive as jealous and tell her that I was jealous. She brought those things up last night and I told her that I really am not and that it was advice from my IC to tell you that I was and specifically for one person. I should have just agreed with her and said yes and I am working on that. Probably my biggest mistake from last night. But for some reason I felt that I had to defend my real perspective as she seemed clinging to that. I did ask her when she thought that I was being jealous and she came all she could really come up with is a time in February when we were on vacation and I seemed jealous for about 5 minutes one night when she was talking to some guy. I told her that I could have been acting like a jerk and could have been but I don't remember the event.

I also told her last night that before I feared losing her before and it made me insecure about myself. I told her that while I want her to be my wife and for us to work on the marriage I no longer felt the need for her to be. That I am more secure in myself and have made great improvements in myself in the past two months.

I know that I could have validated her even more than I did. The biggest problem I see in our M is lack of respect. Standing up for myself last night was probably the first time that I have done that in our M in a long time. While I could have stood up for myself with more validation I did not. Maybe I was all wrong with talking to her last night I have been replaying things in my head all day and trying to figure out where I screwed up and what I actually did right. It can't be undone what is done. I guess I will just have to see what happens in the future and try harder to validate her feelings more if or when the time comes.

I told her that I know that right now she does not feel like she cares about our M and that she does not care about me. I also told her that I do not feel that we should not throw away ten years of lives just like that when there could be a chance that things could be better.

She asked if I am going to fight things because of religion. I told that was part of the reason. I told her that God did not intend for us to have a bad marriage and that we can have a good M. I told her that I do pray everyday that our M will be made to be better and that I truly believe that it can. And that neither of us want to go back to the way things were.

Talking to her last night got a lot of things out. Mainly on my side which may have been wrong. Maybe I royally screwed things up last night. I don't know. It was left with no I don't want to extend out the papers to work on things but yes you can call just to talk.

R2C - Stronger - go ahead with the 2x4's
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 07:53 PM
I also told her that our biggest problem in our M is how we communicate with each other. That when one of us sees and issue or does not like is going on neither of us tell the other person and just keep it inside.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/24/09 10:33 PM
I have not one 2X4 for you. It's crunch time. Conversations have to be had.
Fight the divorce.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/25/09 06:52 PM
Ok Stronger since I am trying to make contact instead of staying dark with obviously did not work and was much easier. How do I do it without seeming like I am pursuing and without too much pressure.

Yesterday I called her and left her a vm seeing if she wanted to meet at dog park if she did not have to work. - No answer

Today I text her "have a good night at work and it seems like it might be a good weekend to work with the rain." - No answer

I hate texting but really didn't want to call and leave another vm. So do I wait a couple of days then call again. Or do I go total pursuit on her and send the flowers, signing clown, dancing monkeys. I really don't want to wait a real long time to send stuff as I have about 3 weeks before I have to respond to filing. Of course it will have to be a completely off the wall response so that it gets extended out for months. Without some movement on her side it is all I have left.
Posted By: K4D Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/25/09 07:28 PM
Wouldn't we all like to know the answer to that.

Kevin
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/28/09 01:15 PM
Well now W does not seem to answer phone calls. I called her on Thursday to see if she wanted to go to dog park. Sent her a text on Friday to have a good weekend at work. Then called her last night and left her a vm about having to sign something at the gym. So when I talked to her had wanted me to call before and said that it was ok to talk. Now when I do call she doesn't answer or call back.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/28/09 08:41 PM
I understand the communication issue O SO WELL.
I practice all my new found skills with everyone else. Everyone else is very easy. MsR2C has huge walls up still.

Sooo.....
Quote:
Sent her a text on Friday to have a good weekend at work.
Do you you think W wants to be told what to do? Keep the texts to "Business only". -- "I have your mail, would you prefer me to "Choice A" or "Choice B"?

Be sure you are willing to live with either choice, but give her two options, she will feel she is making a choice and not being told what to do.

Next time you see her, maybe a "How are you?" and just listen. She may say "Fine". Use your senses and see if she will open up more. Choices for your response "You sound sad", "You sound angry", "You sound XYZ", "You look tired"

Quote:
...So when I talked to her had wanted me to call before and said that it was ok to talk. Now when I do call she doesn't answer or call back.
Just remember she is hurt and confused. Patience, forgiveness and understanding.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/28/09 09:19 PM
Thanks for checking up R2C. I will let her be for a few days and then try to get ahold of her later this week to wish her luck on her race. 10 mile

I am trying to be patient and I have been the whole time. It is just getting really frustrating with her not even making any attempt at anything. I don't call she gets mad. I try to call she doesn't answer. Everything that I do is wrong in her eyes. Even if we have problems she shouldn't be acting like this and not want to try anything. Yeah I know I read the whole WAW article.

If she would have said that I was controlling and I was well that is something that I could work on. The house we bought I didn't even see until I pulled up in the Uhaul. She thinks that I am jealous and I don't call or bother her for 2 months. If I was controlling or jealous wouldn't I have. It's just frustrating and I am venting. Yeah she is spoiled and I am to blame in that. We held off having kids for 6 years because she wasn't ready still wanted to party. In the mean time I did everything she wanted waiting around for her. Then when she is ready she walks out the door.

I am in a town where I know very little people because she wanted to move here. My entire retirement is going to be wiped out on a house that she wanted to buy. I turned down a better job so she could move here. She makes twice as much as me and I will get nothing in the divorce. I am pretty much going to have to start all over in my life because she was unhappy for a couple of months and doesn't want to talk about it. And I am the one who wants to save my M. There must be something wrong with me.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/28/09 09:55 PM
I can relate to the "knowing very little people". I have a whole new circle of friends now (mostly women smile ). I just keep working on me. I pass out what I want to receive. Smiles, friendly conversations,honest compliments, etc....The women in my life find it easy to open up to me. I listen and validate. I offer support when appropriate......Can I do it with MsR2C? Not while she is not talking to me.....I just keep practicing.


SOOOO, She is MAD. She is projecting all her anger at YOU. She does not know why she is mad, but has focused all her anger at YOU. DO NOT PULL THE ROPE!!!! She is confused. She believes that you do not understand her. Do you want her to miss you when you are away, or do you want to give her more contact so she can blame you for her unhappiness?

She feels like she has given all she has to the relationship. She has given up. That is why she is not trying right now. She believes she does not want a relationship with you. This is a time for self reflection and change (IE GROWTH). We grow during the difficult times in our lives. (I have committed to personal growth from now on...)

Enough of my 2x4's. I know this whole situation sucks. It is out of our control. All we can do is control our thoughts, actions and words. We can focus on making positive changes in our lives. We can focus on all the positive things in our lives and let the negatives fade away.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/29/09 02:01 PM
Ok R2C I am feeling better today. Yesterday was a rough day and so was last night at least for a while. I really thought about things between us and let the anger go. I started listening to the first part of Susan Page book and really thought about it. We were both going in a circle in the way we treated each other. I don't think that we were intentionally hurting each other we just both did it. We probably thought he the other is doing this on purpose. At least I did. My LL would be physical touch. When she would get home from work she would sit on the opposite couch and go to the computer yet would want to talk. It would frustrate me as it would happen every night. Her love language is quality time. Nevertheless I wuold get frustrated and seemed upset that all she wanted to do was sit over on the computer. She would get frustrated and when it was time to go to bed she would stay up later watching tv. Thus S once a month or longer was not uncommon. Which frustrated me even more and made things worse between us. It just kept going in a circle and neither of us would break out of it. I am sure that the things I was doing would seem to be jealous to her as I seemed upset at her. Her thinking it was because she was on the computer and me thinking that it was because she did not show any affection. The two of us being together all the time did not help matters as we could not break out of our patterns.

I know that we could be good together and that if we would have just realized this things could have been really great. But when it seems like the other person is intentionally withholding or trying to hurt you. What is the point of making the effort. We both also let it fester inside of us and did not say things that we should have. When one did say things after things built up for a while it did not help matters because the other was feeling upset at why should I do anything when she/he's not. And just kept the circle going.

The main principle behind DB is to do what works not to just leave the other person alone. Sure don't overly pursue and puts tons of pressure on that person. But if my W's main LL is quality time and that is how she connects then how do I connect with her and let her know that I do love her and that things can be better without doing this. I know that my W is hurting and maybe she does want me to reach out to her. Maybe she wants me to be the one that steps up and leads us back together. Not contacting her has only made things worse as she then filed for D. Even though she does not answer my calls now what it that is what she is wanting for me to try but thinks that if she talks too much right now she will want to come back and not contacting her and trying to talk is easier for her to let go.

While I think that your advice is good for the most people on not contacting their S. I don't think it is the right advice for me. I do believe that my W wants me to be there for her and to show her that I do care and can do it without being upset with her. I want to tell her of the things that kept us going in a circle and by some of the things that she said the other night I can tell that she was starting to think along the same lines. That is also what helped me to realize what was going on. Her also saying things to me to push me back also tells me that if she does continue to be around me she won't be able to continue on her path.

I did not contact my W yesterday as I was in a bad place myself and did not want things to get worse. I may try to call her again tomorrow and see if she wants to do something this weekend. (there will be a 2x4 coming from R2C on that one) I have to try something different and if it is what works then I will continue to do it. NC did not work. As far as telling her where we went wrong and the things that I think that can make it better I will hold off on that for a while. Who knows with God's help she may consider going to counseling once or twice before we get divorced. If I really push for things on the D and it takes longer than the month that she has planned then she may go just to make things go faster. That would be a much better time to tell her.

Will we make it. That is not up to me. That is up to her and God. Will I change. Yep. Will things be a lot better between us if we do try to make a go of it. Yep as long as we don't go back to our old patterns and really talk about things. Stupid communication thing.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/29/09 06:09 PM
I think she is still super pissed at you. Patience and time is all you have to work with now, so use them wisely.
Ultimately, this is still your wife. Don't be afraid to contact her but don't be annoying. I think you are doing fine with the little bits of contact you've made.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/29/09 07:35 PM
I am not pushing things I am just trying to make some contact. She text me to let me know that she was taking money out of our checking to put in her's. I just text back K thanks for letting me know. It's just a minor thing but it is still another step the other way. But then again she did let me know which she didn't originally when she opened the account and put some money in there.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/29/09 07:57 PM
Quote:
I do believe that my W wants me to be there for her and to show her that I do care and can do it without being upset with her.
Great! Are you to the point where you can love her unconditionally and take all her garbage without taking it personally?

Quote:
I want to tell her of the things that kept us going in a circle and by some of the things that she said the other night I can tell that she was starting to think along the same lines.
I feel it is more important for you to SHOW her. I have a hard enough time changing my behavior, let alone explaining to someone else that they need to change and actually have them listen, especially MsR2C.

Quote:
That is also what helped me to realize what was going on.
As long as one person can step out of the box and change the interactions, that is all that matters. The relationship has to change. WE have the responsibility to make our personal changes because we can SEE the negative effects of our subconscious behavior and WE know that we need to stop doing what does not work.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 09/29/09 08:32 PM
Quote:
Great! Are you to the point where you can love her unconditionally and take all her garbage without taking it personally?


As long as I continue to look at it as I am already done what do I have to lose. If things start to get better that is when I really have to watch it as I will be less detached.

Quote:
I feel it is more important for you to SHOW her. I have a hard enough time changing my behavior, let alone explaining to someone else that they need to change and actually have them listen, especially MsR2C.


I will show and wait for a better time to say something to her. Time is running low is the only problem.

Quote:
As long as one person can step out of the box and change the interactions, that is all that matters. The relationship has to change. WE have the responsibility to make our personal changes because we can SEE the negative effects of our subconscious behavior and WE know that we need to stop doing what does not work.


Yeah we can make the changes which I have to keep in mind is for myself and not for her otherwise there will be resentment towards her.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/01/09 03:42 PM
I haven't tried to get a hold of my W the last couple of days. I just haven't felt up to it. As I know it would turn into me begging her not to do this. I am really feeling down about the whole sitch and just want to give up and not fight her on the D. If I don't fight her it will be over for good. Pretty much just feeling bad for myself and the loss of what should be something good.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/02/09 07:41 PM
Hey,

Quote:
I haven't tried to get a hold of my W the last couple of days....it would turn into me begging her not to do this.
First, good job on "letting her be". Let her miss you.

Quote:
... just want to give up and not fight her on the D. If I don't fight her it will be over for good.
"What you resist, persists."-- Any reason to fight her? She does not want to be controlled.

Quote:
Pretty much just feeling bad for myself and the loss of what should be something good.
It is OK to feel these feelings and morn the loss of the R. Just do it away from her. Crying is a great release. Feeling the pain allows you to feel happy. When around her and others project happiness, confidence, and all those other characteristics that people find attractive. Show her what she will be losing by continuing down her path.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/02/09 07:59 PM
Quote:
Quote:
I haven't tried to get a hold of my W the last couple of days....it would turn into me begging her not to do this.
First, good job on "letting her be". Let her miss you.


Well I slipped on that one. Yesterday I sent her a good luck text on her 10 mile race this weekend. And today I sent her a text telling how our crazy neighbor came over to tell me that I don't play fetch enough with my dogs.

Other than that nothing. It wasn't pressuring just trying to make some contact. I didn't hear back on either one.

Quote:
"What you resist, persists."-- Any reason to fight her? She does not want to be controlled


All I really can do to fight her is over material things. I will put in my response what I think is right and she will have to accept or decline. There really is no way for me to fight it. So when I meet with L this week we will discuss what is fair. May just take us into mediation later or end up in court or she can just sign away if she wants it over in a hurry. Of course I don't think she is going to like paying me alimony.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/02/09 08:11 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
... Yesterday I sent her a good luck text on her 10 mile race this weekend. And today I sent her a text telling how our crazy neighbor came over to tell me that I don't play fetch enough with my dogs....
Are these 180's?

I never complimented my W. I thought she knew. If I say "Hi gorgeous", that is a 180 for me. All the women in my life eat this up. How will MsR2C react? I will do and watch her reaction.....
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/02/09 08:27 PM
Quote:
All I really can do to fight her is over material things. I will put in my response what I think is right and she will have to accept or decline. There really is no way for me to fight it. So when I meet with L this week we will discuss what is fair. May just take us into mediation later or end up in court or she can just sign away if she wants it over in a hurry.
One of my areas of personal growth- Choosing my words carefully. This is a good place to practice. I know that people interchange Fighting/Arguing/Negotiating. What word we pick is important. The divorce is a process of negotiating that may lead to arguments that may proceed to fights.

Anyway, setting intentions is important. "I intend to have a XYZ relationship with MsR2C". XYZ can be civil, loving, etc....The solutions in DR keep us moving in the proper direction to reach our goals.....
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/02/09 08:41 PM
Are they 180s? Maybe. She thinks of me as more serious so it wasn't Anything to do with us and was pretty laid back. It is definetly a 180 from the past two months as I have been completely dark. So will it change things I don't know. That is all up to her how much she wants me to be around. Will it confuse her decision if I do say nice lighthearted things to her every so often I think so. Just as long as it is only every so often.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/05/09 04:11 PM
How was the weekend?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/05/09 04:31 PM
Ok thanks for checking.
Posted By: Stronger Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/06/09 11:37 PM
How are things going? Is she being any more responsive?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/06/09 11:57 PM
No word from her. Meet with my lawyer tomorrow.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/07/09 03:36 PM
Just let us know how we can support you.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/07/09 04:00 PM
R2C thanks. I'm not sure right now.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/12/09 02:11 AM
No contact from w other than a text saying she wants to come get some things this week. I have to fill out the response to her petition this week and then I will be gone for a week. When I get back we will most likely be going to mediation.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/15/09 06:33 PM
W still hasn't stopped by for her things. I sent her a text asking if she wanted to stay at the house when I am gone. No word from her on that either. To me she is completely insane but in her world she is absolutely right in everything she is doing and that it is all my fault.

Tomorrow morning I meet with L to finalize my response to petition which will probably send us to mediation. After that I will be camping in the Rockies for 8 days. When I get back it will be time to go to through L's and whatever else I need to do.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/15/09 08:32 PM
Where are you camping in the Rockies (I live in the Rockies)?
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/15/09 08:55 PM
North of Fruita. Elk hunting.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final countdown - papers are here - 10/15/09 09:42 PM
Elk hunting is always a good time. Have a great trip and good luck!
Posted By: GoBison Final days - 10/26/09 02:55 AM
Well made it back from the mountains. Had a good hunt 5 elk and a bear. W stopped by the house while I was gone. She must have thought that I was going to be around this week as she sent a text a couple hours before she stopped and then a vm when she must have been in the driveway. Only thing on the vm was a sigh. She stopped by to get some winter coats. The guy that was staying at our house let her in. Surprisingly she only took some of her clothes and jackets thought she would cleat out as much as possible. I replied back to the petition before I left so I am sure that she got it before she stopped here. She called me tonight I didn't answer and she left vm. I haven't called her back as I really don't want to maybe I will on a day or two. I am sure she is now trying to be nice to settle this asap and get out of alimony and make it easy on her.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final days - 10/26/09 06:11 PM
Sounds like a good vacation.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 10/26/09 09:58 PM
Yeah it was a good trip.

I really didn't want to come home. I just want to call up my W and ask her to cancel the filing and to move home. I am sure that it won't help things. I get out do things all the time but it just feels empty and doesn't feel right to not have her around. When I sat at home last night after I got back I really missed my W and not having her there to tell about the trip.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final days - 10/26/09 11:05 PM
Yes, I know it hurts. We just need to understand that we can not control others. The only thing we have control of is US. Our thoughts, words and actions.

Changes in OUR BEHAVIOR is our best chance of drawing our wayward partners back to us (NOT WORDS). Setting them free. Finding our internal happiness. Project a changed person to them. I still have a hard time interacting with MsR2C. I fall back on old habits.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 10/27/09 11:43 PM
Yeah I know that I can't control others. I just sucks. One month we are planning to have kids the next she wants s divorce and then moves out in 3 weeks. Just makes no sense and is really frustrating.
Posted By: robx Re: Final days - 10/28/09 12:14 AM
Has she mentioned another man by chance?
Is it possible?
Sorry I haven't read the entire thread yet.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 10/28/09 12:28 AM
No she's never mentioned anything about another guy. I am sure that it is a very good possibility especially after 4 months of her being gone. I don't think there is a whole lot to do in my sitch other than just doing my own thing and letting the l's play things out. I have barely spoken with her at all in the past 4 months and not much has changed. If she doesn't want to work on things then it won't happen. Just waiting it out. And yeah I have gone out and socially interacted and have been getting a life but just not the same and not what I wanted in life. Just have to keep on keeping on praying that she will have a change of heart. And if not I will just have to see where life takes me.

Robx I will give you a quick run down on sitch. I was typical nice guy and did it all for my W so much that everything I did was all about her and how to help her to be happy. Little to do with what I wanted and just about her. Resentment and insecurities on my part and disrespect & a not caring or trying on her part. Worked/ing on my issues and still hoping that she will have the opportunity to notice and change her mind.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 11/02/09 04:11 PM
Well no contact with W again this past weekend. I text her on Wednesday to see what was up since she called last Sunday and left vm. I also called her and left her a voicemail on Friday. Have not heard from her.

Since then I learned that she has requested a court date for the D. Which will probably be next summer. She has never said anything about mediation it was just here is what I want with a list of items on the petition. I responded back and it was not what she was asking for so she must figure she needs to go to court. The only time she sat down to even try to talk about filing and what was what is one time she told me she wanted to talk over finances. When I got there she had a joint petition filled out and wanted me to sign. That was 1.5 months ago. I would not sign then as I needed to talk to a lawyer. So she filed away hoping that I would just give in. 10 years and she can't even talk through this without getting everything her way.

We have been in minimal to no contact for 4 months now. I go back and forth between should I try to initiate contact with her or do I keep on with no/minimal contact in hopes that she wakes up. I am sure that the census here on the board would be to stay no contact as I can't talk her into anything this is something that she has to go through on her own. It just seems like sitting here doing nothing in the way of saving my marriage outside of GAL is not busting my D.
Posted By: Ready2Change Re: Final days - 11/02/09 05:30 PM
So a big 180 for me that is working:

I DO NOT TRY TO PLEASE MSR2C!

Yes it is not logical. But it works, so I am going to keep doing it. It has opened up communication. Of course I have kids that will tie us together forever......
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 11/09/09 03:26 PM
Not much new to report. Saw W yesterday for the second time since she left in July. She stopped over at the house to get her snow tires for her car. I helped her load them and gave her her mail. She petted the dogs for a couple of minutes and then took off. No R or D talk. She said thanks and headed out the door.

She had been there two weeks ago and got some coats but did not pick up her tires at that time. I was out of town that week and she did not know that I was. Last night she mentioned that she needed a vacuum as she hasn't had one since she moved out. I said ok take the spare one it is in the basement. She hesitated and said she would just get it later.

She hasn't stopped by the house for 3 months and then stops by twice in two weeks and plans to stop back again sometime to get a vacuum. Whatever.

When she stopped by the house was spotless, I was dressed to head out on the town and did not mention anything but small talk. Friendly but nothing more.

On the D front. Her L seems to not know what he is doing. He is a criminal lawyer and not a Family L. He forgot to file the papers until after I sent my response in. When my L talked with him he did not know of any mediators and really didn't see it as an option. My L sent over a list of mediators last week. Still not sure when we can go to mediation or what will happen. I would rather not go to mediation since that would mean that I would have to sign off on the D. I truly don't believe in D and not sure if it is something that I can or will do. I accept the fact that my M is over and my W is not coming back but signing D papers to finalize is still something that I am not sure I can do. If we don't go to mediation court date will probably be in July or August of next year. One thing if I do wait until court I get to stay in the house for at least the next year with her paying half the mortgage. Her lawyer also mistakenly put in the papers that the house would not go on the market until one month after D is final. Since we can afford to have both places it really isn't a problem there.

As far as her beleiving that I am done with her and that wakes her up. I don't think that will ever happen. She knows of my religious stance on D and knows I won't change. I was wearing my wedding ring last night when she came. She may or may not have noticed doesn't really matter. She knows I am not for the D.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 11/21/09 05:42 PM
Well still nothing from the wife. No talk of mediation nothing. Per my db coach he said to ask her to do something every once in awhile. I asked her twice if she wanted to go to the dog park and yesterday if she wanted to see a movie this weekend. First time i asked her to dog park she replied she had to work last two times no response back. The only time she responds is if she wants something. So guess it is back to complete NC. Probably talked to her 5 times in the last 4 months and seen her twice. Hope she wakes up soon because she is really starting to chap my arse.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/03/09 09:30 PM
Well still very limited contact from W. Talked to her last week for maybe two minutes on bills. Then sent her an email detailing all the bills so that she could send money for the mortgage. Then yesterday we go through the following:

W: I'm going to come to the house tonight and get some Christmas stuff

M: I'm not going to be home tonight or tomorrow night

W: Can I still go there and get some stuff....just Christmas stuff

M: No we need to go through it and split it up

W: I'm not gonna keep it.... I don't have anywhere to store it...I'm gonna use it and bring it back.

M: Does Saturday morning at 10 work for you?

W: No I'm working... I can only do it tonight..I'm not gonna take anything for good..in fact I'm gonna bring the totes back right away cuz I have no room for them

W: I'm not gonna steal them...

M:I can't do it tonight. We will have to go through it another night when it works for both of us.


Not a big conversation by any means but most we have had in a couple of months. Having troubles with not being a nice guy yet not being a jerk. I think that I handled it ok but then again it is only a few bulbs and lights. She also does not have access to the house so in order for her to get in I would have to give her the code. Not to mention the fact the last time she came to the house alone she took somethings that she said she would return and now claims that she will keep them.

No mention of mediation from her and it has been over a month since my lawyer sent her the list of mediators.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Final days - 12/03/09 10:34 PM
Well-handled.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/04/09 03:54 PM
Thanks for the reply Puppy. While it is only a small interaction it is one of the few that we have had. Also being a "Nice Guy" it is still a transistion of me thinking what I said was out of line or mean when it is actually more of the way I should be handling people in my life expecially my W. And it is often tough coming here and bothering others with my minor conversation. That and kind of wussy.

Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Final days - 12/04/09 10:35 PM
Always good to come here and read others' examples, and also to run things past the other folks who can give some guidance on how to word/phrase things.

No shame in that!

Puppy
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/07/09 11:00 PM
W is going to come over tonight to get some of the Christmas things. I have not talked to her since last week when she wanted to come over. So an hour before I was to get off work she sends me this text

W - "Can I get my xmas stuff tonight then?"

M - "Yeah I shud be home around 7 then we can go through and split it up"


Should be an interesting evening. This will be the third whole time she has blessed me with her presence since July. Complete entitlement mentality on her part. "my xmas stuff" "then". Not like I was trying to keep anything from her just wanted to split things up. Whenever she wants something it is now and no asking if it will work for me.

I will get through the hour she is there without telling her what a complete selfish beyatch she is acting like.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/08/09 04:52 AM
Wife came over tonight and picked up Christmas things. She was upset because of how miserable I am making her in not signing her petition and she just wants it over as soon as possible. We talked for two hours mostly her trying to convince me that we should just do it with out lawyers now. I think she is afraid she will have to pay alimony.

She said that she wished she had a boyfriend so that she had a good reason to do what she is doing but she just doesn't love me anymore and she never will. If we go to court she will just end up hating me. I told her that if we went to retrovaille and nothing changed then we would sit down split things up. She said that there was no way she would go to the weekend and she did not feel comfortable staying in a hotel with me. I said ok but I can't with good conscience sign off on divorce without trying to work on marriage. So we left it at that and I told her we would go to mediation sometime after the end of the year. She shed a few tears but I think it had more to do with the money she could lose.

Ten minutes after she left she called and said she would go to retrovaille if I would agree not to use lawyers after the weekend. So January 8th we are going to go if we can get in.

I know it is against db practice to let her know that I am still interested in saving the M but she knows that with being Catholic I will never sign off on a divorce. 5 months of being dark and no change. Will retrovaile help? Probably not but going dark did nothing and time for some action either way.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/23/09 03:11 PM
Well spoke with wife again yesterday over text. We have little communication and each time it doesn't seem to go well. I was little too hard on her in my last reply and let emotions get in the way. But I was sick of her crap behavior and said what I did. I have not spoken to her since then. She is my niece's godmother but has not spoken to or seen her since April. So she has missed her (2nd)b-day and seening her as flowergirl in wedding. She also has not been in the house without me there since June the locks are changed.



W: I'm gonna drop niece's gift by the house and give the doggies a treat b4 work today...is that ok?


M: I'd rather you stopped at my place when I am home. You shud prolly just return the gift for niece. My sister wud rather you didn't give her anything.


W: Ok that's fine. I won't give it to her then...if that's how she wants it to be


M: She didn't say it to be mean. She just said that niece doesn't remember you and it wud confuse her since she will never see you again.


W: No I understand...its fine...I'm not mad.


M: For once why don't you say how you really feel instead of letting it fester. If you want a relationship with niece I'm not stopping you talk to my sister see my niece give her the gift. It is your choice how you want to handle it with her don't put me in between you and her and then be upset about it. I am done with this passive agressive crap say what you mean for once. This isn't how my sister WANTS it this is what you have chosen


W:I'm not mad! Wow!


As things sit right now we are going to mediation. We could probably just do it ourselves and save the money as she wants to do it. I am talking to L this afternoon to get somethings lined up for mediation and a timeline. I don't think that we will be going to Retro as she agreed to previously. She decided that now she will only go if I sign the divorce papers before we go. So she was just trying to manipulate me into signing and then not going at all.
Posted By: nutfarmer Re: Final days - 12/23/09 04:08 PM
Originally Posted By: GoBison
As things sit right now we are going to mediation. We could probably just do it ourselves and save the money as she wants to do it. I am talking to L this afternoon to get somethings lined up for mediation and a timeline. I don't think that we will be going to Retro as she agreed to previously. She decided that now she will only go if I sign the divorce papers before we go. So she was just trying to manipulate me into signing and then not going at all.
Get...an...attorney. You are playing with fire if you don't.
Posted By: hhh Re: Final days - 12/23/09 04:14 PM
GB - well it sounds like you and I are almost in Exactly the same situation. I got papers this past Saturday and H wanted me to just sign on the spot, without lawyers. We have nothing shared so it wouldn't be complicated but I'm still not signing on the spot. I also tried Retro one last time in Jan so that we could end things civil-ly. He just wants to be done and every talk we have even now about ending it seems to get nasty. Sometimes I wonder if it's better to just move on, but I know that's the last things either of us want to do.

I know this is hard right before Xmas. I went to church on Monday and just cried for about an hour. It's so hard, I hear you... my friend told me to just try to look for one good thing in every day..that's what I've been trying to focus on. I started reading Mars and Venus starting over but it just made me more sad. Have you read any helpful books or gone to IC?

Wishing you peace during this season.
-hhh
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 12/23/09 04:33 PM
I have a L. I was served in September and we have yet to set up a time for mediation. The meeting with the L this afternoon is just to fill out paperwork on the mediation or something. I am letting the L's handle things. She is pushing to just get it over with and do it ourselves.

Self-help books read plenty of them. And I have talked to DB Coach and MC individually in the past.



The thing that I do have trouble with is setting boundaries on her rude behavior without coming across as an a$$. As I posted above in the text I tried to set a boundary but not sure where the line is and feel that I was being an a$$. Next time I will have to use Coach's line on boundaries "I feel __ when __..."
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 01/06/10 02:33 PM
I received an email from wife last night. I had asked her to go to Retro prior to finishing up paperwork and going to mediation. Below is her response to that request and my reply. Part of the reason that I want to go is so that we can start to get past somethings when we do D. Which I think will happen and will also help if reconcilation after the D is to take place. I have also tried to not be angry with her during this but I have almost no respect left for her. What I said to her was probably anti-DB but it was all true. I also had to be careful in wording what I said to her since she is trying to go to the judge to tell them I am dragging things out. To her me dragging things out is not signing what she wants. I am still waiting for mediation to be scheduled with the lawyers.


Quote:
Sorry I haven't responded....been very very busy at work.
But I am not going to do the retreat this weekend based on the
disagreements and the overall reason that I am going. I do want
things to get done quickly and respectfully and I do know that this
would not help me in any aspect of my decisions. I am also not
trying to be a jerk...I really do want to be civil about this and
get this done as quickly and as smooth as possible. If you want to
sit down and talk about the seperation of things, I am willing to do
that and get it over with sooner. In addition, I think we should
start thinking about what we want to do with the house and realtors,
etc. Lastly, when you cancel your membership at Gym, please
have them call me so they can swithch it to my card. I tried to do
this already, but because your the main name on the account I was
unable to do this. Any problems with Gym give me a call.


My reply:

Quote:
The reason for the weekend was so that we could move beyond our
disagreements and work everything out respectfully and move on with
our lives without resentment. Half of the people that are going don't
want to be there. I have asked very little from you during this whole
thing. I do not feel at this point that we can sit down and get rid of
everything without some sort of harsh feelings. The weekend is not a
miracle "cure" or anything it just allows us to communicate better and
to move on with our lives. There will be things and times after the
divorce is final that we will still have to work together and see each
other. I would rather get the bad feelings behind us now instead of
carrying them with us. Like I said before 98% of the people that
divorced after this weekend were still glad they went so that they
both could heal from this. The weekend is not to blame each other and
there is no pressure either way on to divorce or not. I truly believe
that after the weekend we will be able to discuss everything with a
lot less hostility and emotional baggage. I believe that at that point
we will be able sit down and discuss things respectfully.

If you are unwilling to go that is fine. But I believe what is best
for me and my future is to work through my lawyer.

I will let you know what they say at Gym.
Posted By: Lotus Re: Final days - 01/06/10 03:06 PM
You explain it all well. I'm sorry she won't consider it.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 01/06/10 03:13 PM
Thanks Lotus
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final days - 01/06/10 03:34 PM
I thought it was well written also but forget the gym thing. If she did not pay for the gym and you did then I would just cancel it and let her buy her own membership.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 01/06/10 03:40 PM
The gym membership is not a big deal. We have a family membership and she has been paying half of it every month. The only thing would be that she does not have to pay for another initiation fee. She will switch it to her own credit card. If I go and just cancel it, it will seem more vindictive than anything.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Final days - 01/06/10 03:42 PM
I agree with the others. Well said, and don't pay for her gym membership.

Puppy
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final days - 01/06/10 04:04 PM
Vindictive? How about this, "if you want to be divorced and on your own then get your own membership." It is a "family" membership right? She does not want to be a family. Maybe someone else can word it better than I can.
Posted By: Puppy Dog Tails Re: Final days - 01/06/10 04:06 PM
I would simply say "considering where we are at, I think it would be wisest if we began to separate our finances, and each pay for our own things."
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 01/06/10 04:19 PM
Everything we have outside of the mortgage, student loans and gym membership are separated. She pays me monthly for half of the mortgage, her portion of the student loans and her half of the gym membership. She has tried in the past to change the gym membership to her name only but was told she can't as I am the main account holder and need to make the changes. All I would be doing is when I call the gym to cancel my membership is to tell them that she will be calling in to set up on different credit card so that she does not have to pay another enrollment fee.

I have her pay me for the mortgage and the student loans as they are in both our names and I don't trust that she will actually pay them on time.

I do not pay for anything for her.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 01/19/10 05:40 PM
No word from my Wife on anything. Not even sure I am doing the right thing in trying to save my marriage or even if I should be trying to save my marriage. I have been almost completely dark for 6 months now. Times seen each other 3. Talked on phone maybe another 3-4, emailed a couple more than that. She is still all about getting the D over.

Is there someone else I don't know I am sure there probably is. Without going back I had little to no chance of ever finding out. Went from bomb being dropped to her having her own place in 3 weeks.

Only reason for her doing this "She just doesn't feel that love she should". Mostly just venting here I guess. I think that I have done everything that I possibly could have to try to get her to at least work on our M. GAL, complete darkness, prayed yet not even a slight waver in my wife.

I don't want my M over but maybe I should just meet with her and split everything up and not go to mediation. Make it quick and get it over with. Just a bunch of BS as I was a good husband to her and this never should have happened. Really sucks having to go to my family and let everyone know what happened. Large Catholic family in a small town and divorce isn't even a word around there.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/09/10 06:10 PM
On thursday we have Financial Neutral Evaluation (not exactly sure what that is). I am meeting with my L in a couple of hours to discuss how things will go and I will know more of the process then. So if there is an agreement on thursday the D should be finalized whenever judge signs off.

Not sure what else I could have done to stop the D. I let my wife go and she decided that this is what was best for her. The last I heard from her was on 1/5. It has been 8 mos post bomb and 7 mos since separation. Since then I have seen her 3 times and have had email/text/phone contact with her maybe 10 times in the past 7 mos.

Just so you know I am listening PDT I cancelled the gym membership without letting her sign up for her own.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/09/10 08:51 PM
Met with L. Financial Early Neutral Evaluation (FENE) in MN is a new way to resolve D before filing. Couples meet with a retired judge or lawyer that handles the cases. They present him with their financials, history, case etc. The evaluator simply states what he thinks the judge would decide if the case would go to court. This is done most of the time before either party files and then they joint file or file with what the judge recommends. A way for the state to push through cases in a hurry.

My W's L is not a family L and has not done a D since 2006. So he has never even heard of a FENE and my L had to help explain to his secretary what it was. If she would have had a family L we would have done this several months ago instead my W is pissed at me for not settling directly with her and going this route. After the FENE is when parties go to mediation with a better understanding of what is possible. We have not done this FENE or even talked about mediation but her L is making me look like an arse because all I am doing is dragging it out. I have not done a thing to drag it out unless consulting a L and taking his advice (who is a family lawyer) is dragging it out.

As her L does not know anything about this new process they did not have any financials statements submitted which were due last week. So we are going in with no idea of their claims or her current financial status.

She also needs to make a claim personally to start out the process as she is the petitioner. I highly doubt that her L has told her that she needs to speak as he has no clue what is going on himself. So I am sure that I will be the cause of that and it will not make her happy.
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final days - 02/09/10 09:55 PM
Who cares if she is unhappy with you, right? Do what is best for YOU. Did she have anything to say about the gym membership? Your wife sounds about as tough to crack as mine.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/09/10 10:13 PM
Nope no word on the gym membership or anything at all. I am trying to do as Puppy says in dragging my feet but not being a horse's arse. Which I am but her L is telling her I am being a horse's arse.

It doesn't matter what she thinks of me at this point she would have to do a lot to get back in the M. But going into this without her L knowing what is going on or her doesn't really help when it comes time to compromise on things.

And she is quite the princess her way or no way.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/11/10 02:49 PM
45 mins before mediation just waiting to meet with my lawyer. Please pray that I am doing the right thing for my marriage and myself.
Posted By: jasper67 Re: Final days - 02/11/10 04:35 PM
thoughts and prayers are w/ you
Posted By: NoLongerHere Re: Final days - 02/11/10 04:37 PM
Good luck GB, hope it's going well.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/11/10 06:05 PM
Over with nothing too painful. Financially I did ok she pays for first $15k loss on the house and 2/3rds after that. She pays all income taxes this year. Everything else as is. One thing I found out is that once student loans are consolidated they stay that way forever. So for the next 20 years we both have to make the payment. We had some time together alone in the hall and just bs'd about family and such. Whole thing went pretty smooth. I was calm and collected the whole time. At least until I got to my truck and cried like a little girl. All that is left is to sign the final papers and the judge
will sign off. Officially divorced in 3 weeks
Posted By: cesco Re: Final days - 02/11/10 06:19 PM
GB... that doesnt mean "the end" ?
You can still fight for her... I am pulling for you..
At the same time, GAL!!.. it will brng a smile to your face and people around you will notice...
Posted By: v1olin Re: Final days - 02/11/10 08:21 PM
You are in the same boat as I am. Just waiting on the document to sign off on. You will be OK Bison.
Posted By: GoBison Re: Final days - 02/12/10 03:50 PM
Yesterday was somewhat of a relief. After 8 mos of this I at least know how everything will be divided. Today is a little tougher as now I know that it is only a matter of time and things will be over.

Thanks to all that posted to me through this. Especailly PDT, R2C and Stronger.
Posted By: hhh Re: Final days - 03/01/10 12:29 PM
GB - I know you are somewhat in the same boat that I am, so just wanted to check in and say hello. I thought of your sitch and a lot of others' on this site when I was in church yesterday. How are you doing? What is new with you?
hugs,
hhh
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