Doing my best, I think - DivorceBusting.com

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Quick Update,

Things have ben going good for me. Pretty much status quo on the R front. We are getting along, talking, doing work around the house but nothing really emotional or physical.

I have been working my a** off at work and my W has been sick for almost 2 weeks so that makes it hard to do anything for us.

We had MC last night and she sent us home with some things to do. Since it has been forever since we hugged or kissed she said that we should start doing that when we get home from work. She told us it would be very awkward which both of us knew but I think my W is willing to try and so am I.

Second we are to come up with ideas of things to do together that are different then we have been doing which is basically dinner, movies and watching tv. We told her we take walks when it is warm and she said that was good. She asked if we talked and enjoyed each others copmpany and we both said that we did.

Lastly she wants us to write down two things over the next weeks of things that the other person does that you either like or dislike that you wanted to tell them about but did not. My W and I do not tell each other when something upsets us or when we want something from the other person. We sort of ignore it and it builds up and festers inside. Its a major problem with our R and the MC said we need to work though it but it will take time.

It was a light session but we are both very apprehensive of doing some of it. We are in a rut and like all things its hard to change but I am hoping that we both put forth the effort and that it will become easier over time. I look at it as I did when I first started to address my issues. It was difficult at first but once they become part of me it was very easy to continue.

Mike, I hope all is well in your life and that your dad and girlfriends mom are getting better.

Bridge, Ken, WT and NDS, I hope all of you are doing well also.

Take care,

Tim

First off..excellant post..I think your MC may just be the bomb..he/she sounds like a really good one and it's nice to see that your W seems receptive to doing the exercises and going..

My life is good..I could use more money

of course..

dad is doing great but as uyou know there is no cure for his brain cancer..so it will be a matter of time...Michele's mom is taking radiation treatments and is doing Ok..time will tell with her..

carry on brother..maintain...I'm liking what I read..

Good to hear from you Mike,

Our MC does seem to be good and when I meet with her alone a couple of weeks ago she said that her and my W seemed to hit it off so that is good also.

I think if we just put forth a real effort and not just go through the motions we might just be able to move this R forward. Time will tell but I need to just stay in the here and now and work from there.

Hope your enjoying the nicer weather and getting out for some golf. I did ok with my first round a couple of friday's ago but I need to get out more because I am rusty.

it rains like hell here lately..I've played golf 3x since my Febuary golf trip...GF and Caleigh taske up a lot of my time..now dad...I'll be glad when it warms up..

Hi Tim <waving hello>

I like what your MC is doing. My MC was really good but didn't focus enough on the actual doing part like yours is. Although she did tell us to start dating when my W moved out of the room - but my W never got around to the dating part...lol.

At least your W looks like she is going to do the 'homework' with you.

Ken,

Good to hear from you.

Our MC did give us "homework" but so far it is undone. I did ask her for a hug before she went away on Monday and we snuggled for a while in bed on Sunday morning but that has been about it. We seem to be on cruse control and its hard to change a habit that is so ingrained in our routine.

We are getting along well but its just very awkward at times and I need to find a way to ignore the tension that creeps in every now and again. Also my W is having a bad time at work and that of course adds to the stressfulness of the sitch. Its never easy, its always one thing after another. That just makes it hard to connect and stay connected and how if your not constantly working on your R that we end up where we are at. Nobodys fault, just ignorance and life, I guess.

Anyways,

I am going to my brothers this weekend for some much needed rest and time away from work and all the chitt at home. He has tickets to the NASCAR race in Richmond so it should be a good time. I am leaving on Thursday night to make it a long weekend.

I was going to give you a call on the way down to bs for a little bit if your avaliable around 7:30-8:00. If we don't get to talk have a great weekend.

Take care,

Tim

Ah, there you are....

Sounds like you need this coming weekend, hope you have a good time.

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We seem to be on cruse control and its hard to change a habit that is so ingrained in our routine.

Really? Maybe she's still not ready. I think there are times when we all think something sounds like a great idea until it comes time to implement. Then we find out if we are really ready.

Going to MC, to me, says that you are both ready for a change. Are you both on the same page or still trying to find that out?

I feel like there's more you'd like to say, but you're not. But I could be wrong (but also understand that you may not want to say it here and are talking offline).

WT

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I feel like there's more you'd like to say, but you're not. But I could be wrong (but also understand that you may not want to say it here and are talking offline).

hells bells...tell it all brother..tell it all...

Ahh Nascar in Richmond...nothing like a relaxing weekend amoungst drunk rednecks...

just kidding....

you know what they say..Virginia is for Lovers... and I'll be in SW Virginia this weekend..

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

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We seem to be on cruse control and its hard to change a habit that is so ingrained in our routine.

Really? Maybe she's still not ready. I think there are times when we all think something sounds like a great idea until it comes time to implement. Then we find out if we are really ready.

Going to MC, to me, says that you are both ready for a change. Are you both on the same page or still trying to find that out?

I feel like there's more you'd like to say, but you're not. But I could be wrong (but also understand that you may not want to say it here and are talking offline).

WT

Not sure if she is not ready or it just feels awkward because we have not be intimate outside the bedroom in a long time. I know how it feels for me but I cannot speak for her. I want to be more physical but don't because it feels like I am putting pressure on her.

And I hope your right about going to MC. She still makes off hand remarks but the MC told me to ignore them as long as she comes that is what is important. That is what I try and do.

I think we are on the same page most of the time. I just need to keep giving her space as I have been doing and not try to force any issues.

You are right about having more to say but just not sure how to write it exactly. I kinda need to just either think it through or talk about it more than anything. If you understand what I mean.

Good to hear from you WT and I soooooooo need this weekend to just unwind and forget about work and home. Putting in 11 to 12 hours a day for the past three weeks is starting to wear on me a little. Couple that with my W having problems at her work and it makes for a bad situation if we don't both find a way to relax. Getting away from each other might be the best thing right now.

How you doing? Hope your enjoying the great weather we have been having. I had a great weekend with my son. We went to a RR museum on Saturday and he go a RR merit badge. Then on Sunday we stained the deck together so it was good father son time.

Take care,

im

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

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I feel like there's more you'd like to say, but you're not. But I could be wrong (but also understand that you may not want to say it here and are talking offline).

hells bells...tell it all brother..tell it all...

Ahh Nascar in Richmond...nothing like a relaxing weekend amoungst drunk rednecks...

just kidding....

you know what they say..Virginia is for Lovers... and I'll be in SW Virginia this weekend..

Telling as much as I feel is important Mike. The rest is mostly randon thoughts and questions that have no answers and I need to just put them aside and do what needs done.

And a day with loud cars, drunk rednecks and my brother is just what the DR. ordered for me. Plan on having a great time.

You have a great time in VA also with your GF.

How is your dad doing? I hope all is well with him.

Me? Life is good. I've come upon a very peaceful place in my life and it's great to finally be here.

Take care of you, Tim.

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I want to be more physical but don't because it feels like I am putting pressure on her.

You're doing the right thing here. Although it is your homework from the MC, yes? Maybe it needs to be discussed further as to who initiates this (I'm thinking putting that ball in her court would remove the questions from your mind as to when it's welcome) and it would make it clearer for both of you.

I'm not sure if writing what's going on in your head is going to help settle it down. Talk to someone, get immediate feedback, find peace with it, let it go. You and your W have lots going on right now, keeping your thoughts clear and in the present moment will give you strength.

Are you doing your best? Turn that 'I think' in the thread's title into 'I know I'm doing my best'. For you. The only thing you can control right now (and ever) are your choices. Live in the moment.

WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Are you doing your best? Turn that 'I think' in the thread's title into 'I know I'm doing my best'. For you. The only thing you can control right now (and ever) are your choices. Live in the moment.

Most of the time I'm pretty sure I am doing the best that I can. It's those times that I am mentally exhausted like I am now that doubt creeps in and looking at the positives gets harder. I want to lean on someone but cannot and that is the part that sucks in all of this. M but alone what a lousy place to be in.

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M but alone what a lousy place to be in.

Yeah, I hear you on that one.

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I want to lean on someone but cannot

I hear that one too.

I had times when 'status quo' was moving backwards. For me things were not acceptable so staying the same felt like things were getting worse.

Your time away this weekend will give you time to think. Don't let feelings that you're being selfish chase you away from what you need to do. Hope that makes sense, I have a feeling it will.

WT

Hi Tim. I'll be around. Between 7-8:30 I'm usually putting the kids to bed. But you can call and I'll let you know if I can talk or I'll call you back.

I feel for you man in limbo land. But remember, sometimes going nowhere or even backwards is actually going forward. Don't be fooled by the 'apparent' direction that seems to be. I think you'll understand what I mean. If not, I'll clarify.

Also, Hi WT and MfT. <waving>

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And a day with loud cars, drunk rednecks and my brother is just what the DR. ordered for me. Plan on having a great time.

Nascar is cool..Bristol is a cool place and within 30 miles of me..I went this past spring..

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You have a great time in VA also with your GF.

that time will be what it will be...that's my life now I'm afraid, my mantra..it is what it is..lol

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How is your dad doing? I hope all is well with him.

dad is cool at the moment, doing good..no issues..starts radiation and chemo soon...in a week or so..

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Most of the time I'm pretty sure I am doing the best that I can. It's those times that I am mentally exhausted like I am now that doubt creeps in and looking at the positives gets harder. I want to lean on someone but cannot and that is the part that sucks in all of this. M but alone what a lousy place to be in.

Hey Tim...just stopped in to catch up on you and Steady...don't get here much lately.

Your words ring a bell with me. Married, but alone...it's those missing pieces. So much is good...but so much needs fixing. I see your wife as trying and wanting it..IMO. After a year, mine would never admit to that, or do anything that shows she wants to.

Hang in there.

Hey, I screwed things up on alt univ and have been trying to put everyone back in...I had you on there, no??

(the other)Tim

Thanks for stopping by Tim. I know you understand how I feel and what I am going thru. I hope she is trying. I can only assume she is, cpncentrate on the positive and continue to move forward

Yes, you had me in the alternate universe. Have not been there lately but you can find me there.

Tim

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I hope she is trying. I can only assume she is, cpncentrate on the positive and continue to move forward

Yours or mine??...lol.

I honestly think yours is...maybe we can convince each other?

I am pretty sure mine has just settled into a comfort zone that allows her to be OK with her decision, yet enjoy what we have rebuilt over the past year. Waiting for me to finally give up, or for herself to have enough balls to ask me to leave..or go out on her own.

My mistake has been letting her have her cake and eat it...afraid to rock the boat.

You need to remember that your wife has openly told you that she wants the feelings back...she wants things to improve...she is going to MC and IC. At the very least, no matter what happens, you have the satisfaction of knowing that you both tried.

I am going at this alone...beating my head against a wall for a year now, and dumb enough to keep riding the coaster with her.

Sorry..don't mean to spout here on your thread. If I go to mine it's just going to end up being a page of..waaaa...waaa..waaaa...I could go back 6 months and just copy and paste..it would be the same thing...lol.

Take care, Buddy.

Originally Posted By: ndsmhelp

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I hope she is trying. I can only assume she is, cpncentrate on the positive and continue to move forward

Yours or mine??...lol.

I honestly think yours is...maybe we can convince each other?

Both I hope. Its hard to say when your in the middle of it and so emotionally invested in it.

Her and I seem so unsure how to proceed even with the MC telling us what we need to do. I want to take that first step but its hard to try and get closer to someone that has told you many times that they are not in love with you. Everytime I want to approach her or initiate some sort of physical contact I question if she wants me to do it.

Strange how it has come to this point. Strange how I could live with someone for so many years and know so much about them but still not know how and when I can be close to them.

You and I are going through the same BS. Something is preventing them from taking that step, that leap of faith that we have change that we want them to be happy and that we won't stop being who we are now once they recommit.

We were talking last night about her problems at work and why her boss has been being a bitch to her lately. I told her to try and talk to her find out what happened to piss her boss off that now she is nit picking everything she does. I told her people get upset at you for doing stuff and don't tell you what it is and then stay mad at you and you have no idea why.

If they would just tell you what you did so you can applogize and then move on it would be so much easier and we would not have to be mind readers.

As I am saying this I am directing it at her also. Trying to let her know that you cannot fix a problem if you do not know one exist or if you do but can't figure out exactly what the problem is how can the person you are upset with correct it. She does this chitt to me all the time. Sucks to be on the other end of it.

Told her that both of them need to be adults and talk it out. Find the root of the problem and solve it. I was thinking "Just as I am trying to do."

Hang in there Tim. Time is on your side. She is still living there for a reason and you are still intimate which is alot more than I can say about my R. We are in MC which I hope rebuilds our trust in each other and that the emotional connection will follow along with the physical which I so want to return.

Take care,

Tim

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Everytime I want to approach her or initiate some sort of physical contact I question if she wants me to do it.

You won't know unless you try. Why do you continue to try to read her mind? You're overthinking this. You try, you get shot down, then you talk about it in MC. Right now by avoiding your MC homework, you won't move forward - you're allowing this situation to stay stuck.

Your MC is being clear, your W is saying she wants to work on things and do the homework - then do it. Seems she's going to MC for an hour or so, then everything goes back to 'normal'. So how is this healthy?

Maybe I'm off the mark, but I feel you're still tiptoeing around. Not that you need to be brutal about this but it's going to get a little more uncomfortable before it gets better - you both are crossing some sensitive bridges.

WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

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Everytime I want to approach her or initiate some sort of physical contact I question if she wants me to do it.

You won't know unless you try. Why do you continue to try to read her mind? You're overthinking this. You try, you get shot down, then you talk about it in MC. Right now by avoiding your MC homework, you won't move forward - you're allowing this situation to stay stuck.

Your MC is being clear, your W is saying she wants to work on things and do the homework - then do it. Seems she's going to MC for an hour or so, then everything goes back to 'normal'. So how is this healthy?

Maybe I'm off the mark, but I feel you're still tiptoeing around. Not that you need to be brutal about this but it's going to get a little more uncomfortable before it gets better - you both are crossing some sensitive bridges.

WT

Keep beating me and maybe I will listen.

I tell myself on the way home that I am just going to do it, then I get there and I don't. I need to just stop all this overthinking and wondering and just step up to the plate and be a man about it. The worst that can happen is she pushes me away and how is that any different than where we are now, right.

Thanks WT

I'm gonna be honest Tim...straight up and to the point.first off what ever I tried..I'd make damn sure you keep your emotions out of it..I've seen too many here get some and get all emotionally tied up in the actions/intimacy/ML and think that things are all better when the WAW does not feel the same way...I'd make it just about the act/or play/or something..I guess I'm saying don't get all GAaa ga....I'm with WT..hell you might get slapped...but I would get myself worked up on the way home one day when I knew the kids were not a factor...and I'd attempt something and she would know that I was worked up and she would either participate or not...but I would not let it effect me one way or the other...in other words..treat it as homework..like WT says..

and I'm not saying rape her..I'm saying try something...I'm saying make it playful.if she is not into it then talk about it at MC....if your rejected just LET IT GO and continue on as you have been until MC..don't get pissed if she rejects the effort.....cop a feel

I think both of you are scared to death to make a move on each other..I'd try touchy feeley...huggy.wuggy....in the name of MC homework..hell..in the name of science...lol

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Keep beating me and maybe I will listen.

I tell myself on the way home that I am just going to do it, then I get there and I don't. I need to just stop all this overthinking and wondering and just step up to the plate and be a man about it. The worst that can happen is she pushes me away and how is that any different than where we are now, right.

Are you flirting with your wife? A wink goes a long way...and gives her the chance to flirt back. Which to me is a green light to go a step further. Be playful.

I do agree with Mike, stay a bit detached with this. Otherwise you'll be getting your feelings hurt all over the place. Then we'll really have to slap you around.

When is the next MC appointment?

WT

Our next MC session is tomorrow.

I am not looking to do much more than get a hug or kiss out of her. I know anything more than that is not even an option at this point.

We do flirt a little bit. A smile here, a touch there but I am just very tenative about it. I just made sure that while I was away this weekend that I called each day. I also called when I arrived so she knew I got there safely. Normally I did not bother.

On the way down she text me which I did not hear come in so she called to check to see why I had not responded. I told her I was driving and did know know she had sent me one. We talked for a while and then said good by.

When I got there I read her text and then responded to it telling her that I had arrived. So that is an improvment over the last time I went away and there was almost no communication between us.

And as far as emotions not getting into it, like always I do the best that I can but its difficult because being total unemotional is hard for me its not part of who I am. Always working on that though.

Keep swinging Mike and WT a little slap upside the head now and again lets me know I'm still alive.

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We do flirt a little bit. A smile here, a touch there but I am just very tenative about it.

Be confident and mysterious. Make her want to know why you have a sly smile on your face.

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Our next MC session is tomorrow.

Right, so have you thought about what you're going to bring up about this homework not getting done? It needs to get sorted now.

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A smile here, a touch there but I am just very tenative about it.

Why? Are you not confident about any contact? Due to her response or lack of? I'm such a hard a$$ that I struggle to sometimes be kind here....maybe she needs to initiate the touching, kissing, homework. Is it possible to discuss this in MC? Sometimes I wonder if she's just not going to dig her heels in and live like this until the kids are grown. (did I say that out loud?)

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And as far as emotions not getting into it, like always I do the best that I can but its difficult because being total unemotional is hard for me its not part of who I am. Always working on that though.

I will fully admit that in my prior post I asked you to do something that I have not done before. Stay in an R and detach. Just thought I'd confess that.

WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

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Our next MC session is tomorrow.

Right, so have you thought about what you're going to bring up about this homework not getting done? It needs to get sorted now.

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A smile here, a touch there but I am just very tenative about it.

Why? Are you not confident about any contact? Due to her response or lack of? I'm such a hard a$$ that I struggle to sometimes be kind here....maybe she needs to initiate the touching, kissing, homework. Is it possible to discuss this in MC? Sometimes I wonder if she's just not going to dig her heels in and live like this until the kids are grown. (did I say that out loud?)

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And as far as emotions not getting into it, like always I do the best that I can but its difficult because being total unemotional is hard for me its not part of who I am. Always working on that though.

I will fully admit that in my prior post I asked you to do something that I have not done before. Stay in an R and detach. Just thought I'd confess that.

WT

Yes, I have thought about what I am going to say at MC about our homework not being done. I want to see how the MC handels it first and what my W says and then discuss it from there. But I do know what I want to say.

Is she waiting for the kids to graduate, maybe, that crosses my mind and I have posted it here also but I cannot do anything about that. I need to stay in the here and now and let whatever she may or may not do in the future to her. It's out of my control and if that is what she is planning then she will have to live with it and her choices.

All I know is that I am trying to do the best that I can and that is all I can do.

I'd flirt like hell..

what's she gonna do..

Divorce you??

and if she does you'll survive..

hell If I can TWICE..then anybody can...

some playful activity might re-ignite something...

"just do it"

you guys remind me of the old teenage days...each one wanting to grope each other and neither one knowing where to begin

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

you guys remind me of the old teenage days...each one wanting to grope each other and neither one knowing where to begin

That is exactly how I feel. Its a should I, should I not kind of thing. The MC said that I should ask her for a hug and that she could either say yes or no. She also said that it is going to take time for it to feel comfortable and that we both need to put in the effort to make it happen.

All in all it was a good session and we had to write down two things that we wanted to say to each other but did not. It could either be something negative or positive. My W went first and she told me how appreciative she was of me for listning and being there for her when she had a melt down at work a couple of weeks ago. She said that it was nice of me to just listen and be there for her.

Her second one was that I dropped my 16 year old daughter off at the dentist without going in and she got a call saying that she needed to be accompanied by an adult and she was not happy with me about it. I was going to defend my actions but the MC said that was how my W felt and I should just listen. Validate I know, I know.

My two were that I wanted to give her a hug when I got home after her melt down at work and comfort her but I did not because I felt it would be unwelcomed. The other one was about her going against a decision I made. I told my son that he was helping me stain the deck as a boy scout good deed and she told him that I should pay him. I did not say anything figuring we would get in a argument in front of him and she would pay him anyways.

But it was all done in a very unemotional way and we both listen to each other. The MC told us to continue with that assigment and to work on the hugging thing. We have three weeks till our next session so we will see how it goes from there.

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The MC told us to continue with that assigment and to work on the hugging thing.

I'm sorry Tim..but I'm sitting here laughing my assss off...I find the way you typed that to be funny as hell for some reason...

MC said to work on the "hugging thing"...that's so funny to me

When an LBS refers to a getting a hug from a WAS as a "hugging thing" then IMO it must show true detachment..LOL..hopefully that "hugging thing" will work its way into a "groping thing" which will turn into you two doing the "wild thing"...

Always nice to spread a little laughter to someone in the morning.

Groping and doing the "wild thing" would be awesome but I do not even think along those lines. I would settle for more snuggling and physical contact right now.

Hi Tim,

Just checking in to see how you're doing.

Hopefully you're not working too hard and life is treating you well.

WT

Hi WT been very busy lately and have not been on in a while.

I am doing well. This last weekend I went camping with my son and the boy scouts and had a really good time. It is so enjoyable to watch them try and learn new things and plus have the older scouts lead and teach the younger scouts. The weather held out till late Saturday and it was a very relaxing weekend for me.

Before I left I gave my W a hug and we texed friday night, Saturday during the day and then she called me on the way home on Sunday. We have never done that when I went on trips before so it was a big change for us.

The last two nights her and I took walks and took advantage of the time to talk and enjoy each others company. The conversation did not feel forced and the time together felt very relax and comfortable if you know what I mean.

Last week I got tan bark to do my landscape and she helped my spread it which was the first time I can remember her doing that. We did not get it all done and she finished it up on Saturday while I was camping. She told me that its harder than it looks. I just smile and thanked her for finishing it for me.

All in all things are moving along, not sure where it is going but I don't have time to dwell on that. Trying to live each day and not project into the future because it does me no good.

Other than that I am busy at work and have lots of stuff to do around my house so that keeps me busy and grounded. The rest is everyday boring stuff a with no real excitement. Basically life.

How are you doing. Enjoying the nicer weather I hope.

Take care,

Tim

it's all about balance and you got it..onward and upward..

I am staying as balanced as possible. Thanks for stopping by Mike. I hope all is well in your life.

Tim

peachy..just peachy...and busy...

Hi Tim. Just wanted to say it's nice that you at least had some little changes in your sitch. The hug, the texting, the phone call, the outdoor yard work. All small things but BIG things at the same time. I really think it's those small things which are really the biggest things. We sometimes look for only the big events (wild and crazy sex) that we miss the smaller things which are really the foundation a relationship is built on.

I know it's tough to be in the position you are in, and I know it takes a ton of patience, but like we've talked about, keep moving forward.

You're doing the best you can do, and you can't do any better than that. Keep your head high my friend. Life will unfold itself.

Hi Tim,

Two gorgeous weekends in a row in these parts. Are we spoiled or what?

WT

Good morning everyone,

Have not been around much lately. I was in Toronto, Canada the last couple of days doing a job up there. Was nice to get away and walk around the city and see all the sights.

Things are going well between my W and I. Its not great but we are talking more, taking walks, we have been texting each other more and while I was in Canada we emailed each other so it has been nice.

Other than that it is typical stuff, work, yard work, kids swimmming, boy scouts and cook outs. The last two weekends we had family outings and played croquet. We all had alot of fun and it was some really nice days.

Hope all of you have been enjoying the nice weather.

Have a great week,

Tim

no mention of MC..where does that stand??

all the other sounds good..

what about physical contact??

We missed last weeks MC appointment. We both had the time wrong. I rescheduled for Thursday of next week.

As far as physical contact the hugging is hit and miss but we have had more in bed, not sexual but more holding. I gave her a hug before I left for Canada but the nightly one does not always happen.

I feel that we seem to be more open and comfortable with each other and want to spend time together. Again I am just going with the flow for right now, seems to be my motto but the MC told me patience two months ago and that is what I am doing.

How's everything with you Mike? How is your dad doing?

good on you Tim..good on you..

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How's everything with you Mike? How is your dad doing?

I'm good...adjusting to a pay cut about a month ago..running da roads hard..keeping myself happy..being there for michele and her daughters when needed..some golf, getting along with Kim..enjoying Caleigh...we are potty training..WOOO HOOOO...well Caleigh is potty training... not me..

Dad is doing OK..a day of real weakness last week..and showing some symptoms of the tumor either coming back or some brain swelling going on..they had taken him off steriods when he started radiation/chemo but decided to put him back on after this last episode..so now he is back to normal for a soon to be 84 year old man...

a hijack here Tim...WT--he is showing no real signs of any side effects of the Rad/chemo pill...he is loosing some hair but it's slow....he is complaining of some vision problems so we are figuring that some of the tumor fingers are progressing into the vision center of his brain which may lead to decreased or total vision loss at some time...the neuro had said that some of the tumor had moved into that area...he goes for Rad. every day at 1:10 and has not missed a treatment..then he and mom go eat sometimes..he gets out about 2 times a week with the local guys at a restaurant to sit and bullchitt...he's on a walker now which is a little different but I think it makes him feel really safe..he has a fear of falling now..

I think he's in really good shape now with the prognosis he has...I think my sisters beg to differ at times..but from where I am things look good with him...I figure he could be in a bed..but he's up, mobile, in pretty good spirits...he talks a lot about heaven, the bible and religious stuff which is very unusual for him and out of character..but maybe in the end that's what we will all do??

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

...we are potty training..WOOO HOOOO...well Caleigh is potty training... not me..

For a second there I thought that maybe you might learn how to use the potty. But then again you are from Tennseess and indoor plumbing hasn't made it up into the hills yet.

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Dad is doing OK..a day of real weakness last week..and showing some symptoms of the tumor either coming back or some brain swelling going on..they had taken him off steriods when he started radiation/chemo but decided to put him back on after this last episode..so now he is back to normal for a soon to be 84 year old man...

a hijack here Tim...WT--he is showing no real signs of any side effects of the Rad/chemo pill...he is loosing some hair but it's slow....he is complaining of some vision problems so we are figuring that some of the tumor fingers are progressing into the vision center of his brain which may lead to decreased or total vision loss at some time...the neuro had said that some of the tumor had moved into that area...he goes for Rad. every day at 1:10 and has not missed a treatment..then he and mom go eat sometimes..he gets out about 2 times a week with the local guys at a restaurant to sit and bullchitt...he's on a walker now which is a little different but I think it makes him feel really safe..he has a fear of falling now..

I think he's in really good shape now with the prognosis he has...I think my sisters beg to differ at times..but from where I am things look good with him...I figure he could be in a bed..but he's up, mobile, in pretty good spirits...he talks a lot about heaven, the bible and religious stuff which is very unusual for him and out of character..but maybe in the end that's what we will all do??

As long as he is up and about, going out to get something to eat that is great for anyone that is 84 let alone someone with brain cancer. Glad all is well with you.

Tim

Quote:

For a second there I thought that maybe you might learn how to use the potty. But then again you are from Tennseess and indoor plumbing hasn't made it up into the hills yet.

nah..not me..I'm a hillbilly and a heathen..indoor plumbing is for yankee's and dignified folk

dad is doing ok..thanks for asking..

Hi Tim, MfT, WT. Nice to see you all. Tim, update please on what's going on. I haven't been around much. Dealing with the all the stuff on my plate right now and I've been taking care of the kids a lot because my W keeps deciding to either go out or spend time sleeping over her mom's. Works for me because I love being with them.

Hope you're doing well Tim. Have a nice weekend.

Ken,

Things are going ok with me. On Friday my W texed me at work and invited me out to lunch and then we went out to dinner that night also. On Saturday we went to an auction and after that she went out shopping with her mom while I did work around the house.

On Saturday evening ms S, W and I drove around our comunity and took pictures for his Boy Scout merit badge and then spent the rest of the evening hanging out at the neighbors house. Yesterday we went over to a friends house and went swimming and had a cookout.

We are getting along well and talking, texting and emailing each other. Its better that it ever has been but its still missing the physical end of the relationship. That feeling of being close, of being a couple, of being in love if you understand what I am saying. She is still distant in that area and it wears on you after a while.

I take it as it comes and that is all I can do at this point. I try and stay focused on the good and not overthink things too much.

Tim

Don't overthink or overanalyze. You say it's better than it ever has been - just remember it happens in baby steps. Sometimes it's two steps forward one step back. I know it wears on you Tim but you know what to do so I can't add anything. I'm glad you're doing well.

I'm sort of just journaling.

We had MC last night and it was a pretty relaxed session. My W and I have been getting along well texting, emailing, doing stuff around the house and taking walks together.

She said that it is nice and that things are getting better. The problem I have is that she still has no desire to advance the physical contact. When asked about this my W said that the "homework assignment" felt like a chore and not something that felt natural. The MC said that maybe you are not ready to proceed further with this R.

My W said that she likes where it is and that it is better than it was. The MC said that maybe we moved a little to fast and should slow down. She asked if I was alright with this and I said most of the time but I would be lying if I said I totally accepted it. (Most of the time I am fine with it but man there are those times like the past week or so that its not.)

My W said that she knows that I do not want to be this way and that I do not want to be here 6 months from now in the same position. The MC said that I needed to be patient, as if that is not a staple in my life, and not to put time frames on things. (Patient, patience?, as if 2years is not having a lot of patience.)

I told them that I stopped putting time frames on things a long time ago because they are unrealistic. Here is the killer part. My W says that she is still unsure about me and that she has lived this way for so many years its hard to get over it. Damn, its like a broken record, move the fu** on already. I am so tired of this damn comment, its a cop out, get over it uuuuuggggggggggghhhhhhhhhh.

Anyways I smiled, looked at her, validated that I understand and yes it was bad there for many years but it was irritating me inside.

The MC then asked my W if there were some underlying issues that she wants to bring up and get out in the open but my W said that there were not any.

The MC asked me if I thought that there were and I said yes but since I cannot read her mind I do not know what they are. The MC said that we cannot force her to reveal them. I agreed.

I told the MC that I apologized for how I treated her in the past and that I was not happy with how I was and that I worked hard to change the things I did not like and most of those were things that I knew she did not like also. The MC asked if I was where I wanted to be and I said yes.

I told her that most of the time I just smile or laugh at the things that use to piss me off. There are time I am driving and someone does something and I just back off and think if they would have done that 2 years ago I would have done something really stupid and been all jacked off.

She said so you have your anger under control and I said yes. But the only bad part is now I can never get mad even when it is called for because I know how my W will react. She looked at my W and she said that she can't remember the last time she felt that way and that I am a much more relaxed and pleasant person to be around. She said that I use to go off and rant and rave about something and then just storm out of the room and that I do not do that anymore.

Then she said that I was the one that was the heavy hand for the kids. I said that is true but I felt that she was way too easy on them and that the more she let them get away with the more strict I was and the stricter I was the easier she was on them. It was a never ending pattern.

My W said that now she has been getting more strict with them and that Tim is the one that talks to them after I get upset. She said that it takes a lot to set her off but the kids know they went too far when she does. She said that the other day our S got me very upset, to the point that I just walked away and I heard Tim downstairs telling him that what he did was wrong and that he needs to apologize to his mother and do what she said. My W said that I was not mean or angry but just told him in a calm way what he needed to do.

The MC said that what you are saying is that it is evening out and that you are backing each other. I said that is how it is suppose to be and its much nicer for me now because I just let my W handle her issues with the kids and I handle mine. So yes its much better this way.

That is pretty much it in a nut shell but it still seems like it was all about me and what I did wrong and her getting over my stuff to move the R forward. It�s like what about the things you did to contribute to our problems and how about an apology for the things she has said and done. Sometimes I feel that it is so one sided and its all about me but it took two to get us here and she had a hand in how all this went down and lets not forget the ex a**hole in all of this. Sorry a little rant to end it. Just needed to get that off my chest and out of my head.

June is a tough month for me, my birthday, Fathers Day and our Anniversary are all within the same week and it�s a little bit of a trigger for me that�s all. I am working my way through it but sometimes I feel a little overwhelmed. Plus what is happening to NDS has me a little upset and makes me questions things in my sitch even though they are not the same and really unrelated but nonetheless it does effect me.

Thanks for listening and have a great weekend.

Tim

Quote:

That is pretty much it in a nut shell but it still seems like it was all about me and what I did wrong and her getting over my stuff to move the R forward. It�s like what about the things you did to contribute to our problems and how about an apology for the things she has said and done. Sometimes I feel that it is so one sided and its all about me but it took two to get us here and she had a hand in how all this went down and lets not forget the ex a**hole in all of this. Sorry a little rant to end it. Just needed to get that off my chest and out of my head.

When are you going to forgive yourself? I sense you are still walking on eggshells a bit, catering to your wife. As long as you allow her to continue to talk ONLY about your contribution to all this, that's all you're going to talk about. It feels, to me that you're both going to MC so she can 'get fixed'. And I'm not denying for one minute that you are where you need to be - I know that MC is a safe place for you both to be able to discuss things. But it doesn't sound like things are moving forward. Where does she want to be in 6 months? Where does she want to be when the kids are out of the house?

If this stuff about her Ex is still bothering you, why aren't you bringing that up when you have a session? Because you're concerned she'll stop going?

Good to see you Tim. And Happy Birthday!
WT

I have not asked her where she wants to be in 6 months and maybe you are right that I need to start shifting the focus from me onto her. Asking her what she wants out of this R, where she sees us being in 6 months and what are her thoughts on intimacy. I was thinking sort of the same thing while I was writting my post this morning.

As for the ex, I don't feel the need to discuss him, in my opinion he is not worth wasting anymore energy on his sorry ass than I already have but an apology from her for their inappropriate R would be nice and an acknowledgement that she has done wrong and hurt me would also be nice.

And its not that I have not forgiven myself it is her that continues to carry it around and use it as a shield or a defense mechanism and that is what irritates me and wants me to just say "get the fu** over it already." But the MC says to give her more time and I will. The MC says she sees progress so I will use more patience and continue on for the time being.

Thanks fo the birthday wish WT, its not till the 22 so I still have a week or so before I'm a year older.

Tim, Just tweek your mindest for yourself. You are doing the work, making positive changes, acknowledging your role, and being a better man. It looks to me that you have a expectation that your W will start coming around which causes pressure. Just love her the best you can because you are so strong and confident in who you are that it just a gift to her while she sorts things out. I think it is a matter of trust, she wants to come to you but is scared. Just be the best you can standing and holding out this gift you have for her until she comes to you to open it. You can handle it.

Cheers

Quote:

And its not that I have not forgiven myself it is her that continues to carry it around and use it as a shield or a defense mechanism and that is what irritates me and wants me to just say "get the fu** over it already."

I agree with the shield analogy. Let me see if I can express this correctly - the fact that she can still get a reaction out of you is why I said forgive yourself. You have made great positive changes that are now who you are (I think you became the man you always were, the changes were to lose the negativity). Anyways, what I'm suggesting is that you have confidence in YOU - no need to tiptoe around. I know my 'sight' is very limited in this situation, but I still feel like you handle her with kid gloves.

Ah, a cancer....now it makes sense....

WT

Originally Posted By: Coach

Tim, Just tweek your mindest for yourself. You are doing the work, making positive changes, acknowledging your role, and being a better man. It looks to me that you have a expectation that your W will start coming around which causes pressure. Just love her the best you can because you are so strong and confident in who you are that it just a gift to her while she sorts things out. I think it is a matter of trust, she wants to come to you but is scared. Just be the best you can standing and holding out this gift you have for her until she comes to you to open it. You can handle it.

Cheers

Thanks Coach,

Most of the time I am good at having no expectations and giving her the time to sort things out but I have my moments of frustration and doubt and that is what causes me to be impatient and want to push the issue. I know I can handle it its just sometimes I need to vent and get it out of my head and off my chest and let my friends here slap me upside the head so I can see things straight and to give me a little advice and guidance.

I appriciate your advice,

Tim

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Quote:

And its not that I have not forgiven myself it is her that continues to carry it around and use it as a shield or a defense mechanism and that is what irritates me and wants me to just say "get the fu** over it already."

I agree with the shield analogy. Let me see if I can express this correctly - the fact that she can still get a reaction out of you is why I said forgive yourself. You have made great positive changes that are now who you are (I think you became the man you always were, the changes were to lose the negativity). Anyways, what I'm suggesting is that you have confidence in YOU - no need to tiptoe around. I know my 'sight' is very limited in this situation, but I still feel like you handle her with kid gloves.

Ah, a cancer....now it makes sense....

WT

I see your point and I am sure there is a small part of me that may still not have forgiven myself so I will work on that.

And yes I am a Cancer and not only that I am on the cusp couple that with my W that is a Leo and she is on the cusp also and you have a great pair.

Originally Posted By: distressed67

And its not that I have not forgiven myself it is her that continues to carry it around and use it as a shield or a defense mechanism and that is what irritates me and wants me to just say "get the fu** over it already." But the MC says to give her more time and I will. The MC says she sees progress so I will use more patience and continue on for the time being.

Tim I totally relate to this. This came up in a conversation I had with my W the other day. It's a waste of my breath to point out she still hasn't taken any responsibility for what happened to our R. Now she's starting to lie and embelish stuff about interactions we've had and my behavior - and writing it down I would guess to present to the psychologist. I refuse to follow suit, but her behavior amazes me. I would never have guessed she would stoop to such levels.

As far as taking responsibility - I believe it is totally necessary for the R to actually move forward to where it needs to be but I have no idea what would trigger your W to actually embrace it. I think the constant focus on us and our past behavior gives them the out of not looking at themselves. My W is still doing it today - I am her focus point. Maybe when we physically seperate she will have herself to look at. Who knows... I don't waste much time thinking about it. I suggest you do the same.

Keep eyes on you and off her. I would talk to the MC if I were you and find out if there was a way to start focusing on what will actually REPAIR the marriage rather then spending so much time looking in the rearview mirror.

Staring at the past and rehashing the behavior just reinforces the fear in your W. It's like making them relive it over and over every time it comes up. This is the mistake my MC made in our sessions. In hindsight I wish we would have been talking about - this is what is needed to move it forward. It came about at the end, but by then my W had already checked out.

Hey WT you got time to stop off over at my thread? I miss seeing you there.

So, I had to dig back to page 4 to find this thread. What's up with that?

Hope all is well. It's bloody cold!

WT

I know WT. It's been what, 6 days since he's said boo in here.

I have an update but I am in Toronto again. Its hard to type on a Blackberry.

I will try and get something posted on my way home today.

Thanks for stopping by WT. Here is a quick update about what happened Thursday morning. You may get to swing that 2x4 yet today.

I had to go back to Toronto and Wednesday night I was thinking my W would come to bed early since we have been getting along better. She did not and I was irritaded and ended up sleeping on the couch.(Yea I know no expectations)

The next morning after I got a shower she asked why I did that. Told her I could not sleep. Then she asked me if I was going to give her a hug which I gruggingly did. Then she asked if I was mad at her and I said no.

She asked again why I sleep on the couch and I said its nothing don't worry about it. At which she said fine.

I went down stairs and got ready and decided to tell her what was really bothering me. I went back upstairs and asked her if she wanted to know why I slept on the couch and she said yes.

I told her I am tired of going to bed alone, I am tired of not having any physical contact and I keep telling you this.She said I thought we were doing better, getting along better. I said we are but I am frustrated that's all. I told you when we started MC that I feel love different than you. You see it as acts of kindness and words of affection and not that I don't like the time we have been spending together but I need physical contact.

All that stuff is nice but how would you feel if I did not talk to you for three weeks. She said she would not like that. I said that is how I feel when we go weeks without toiuching.

She said why didn't you ask me.last night? I said I feel like I am invading your space and I don't want you to think it is a chore. I asked you back in October and even before that that I wanted you to come to bed earlier sometimes to be with me and I sound like a wuss or needy to continue to ask you.

She said that it does not make you sound like a wuss.

I also said I don't want to put undo pressure onto you but we have been in MC for 6 months now and I don't know anymore now than I did then. I need to know where you think we are going and what you expect out of our R. I know there is something you are not telling me and I think the MC knows because she keeps preaching patience and its been a long time and all I ever get is that its getting better and its been this way a long time.

She said all I told the MC is that I am not ready yet nothing more.

We sat in silence for a minute and she said I will try harder.

Heard that before abd have done this convo before but maybe just maybe she will get it this time.

Swing away boys and girls.

Have a great weekend.

Tim

One thing I should mention is that last weekend we spent a lot of time together. We took a walk on friday night. Saturday we went out to dinner, shopping and would of played mini golf but it started to rain. Sunday we hung out, made dinner for her family and when I went to bed. She came up and we talked for a while and she said she had a really nice weekend.

That is what got my expectations up. Not good but I felt really close to her and that makes me want to be physically close to her.

Just wanted everyone to see where some of expectations came from.

Quote:

I had to go back to Toronto and Wednesday night I was thinking my W would come to bed early since we have been getting along better. She did not and I was irritaded and ended up sleeping on the couch.(Yea I know no expectations)

one word

DAM

Quote:

The next morning after I got a shower she asked why I did that. Told her I could not sleep. Then she asked me if I was going to give her a hug which I gruggingly did. Then she asked if I was mad at her and I said no.

that was followed up with

a lie

then you acted like an azz

then you lied again

Quote:

She asked again why I sleep on the couch and I said its nothing don't worry about it. At which she said fine.

\

then you lied again, then she lied

I would have slept in that bed..do not go to the couch anymore.

Quote:

I went down stairs and got ready and decided to tell her what was really bothering me. I went back upstairs and asked her if she wanted to know why I slept on the couch and she said yes.

by this time it was to late..it was all damage control then..you were being a DAM..and i bet she saw "Old Tim" when you did that..

Quote:

I told her I am tired of going to bed alone, I am tired of not having any physical contact and I keep telling you this.She said I thought we were doing better, getting along better. I said we are but I am frustrated that's all. I told you when we started MC that I feel love different than you. You see it as acts of kindness and words of affection and not that I don't like the time we have been spending together but I need physical contact.

All that stuff is nice but how would you feel if I did not talk to you for three weeks. She said she would not like that. I said that is how I feel when we go weeks without toiuching.

and this is the conversation you should have had from the get go instead of letting it fester all night....

was the couch comfortable??

Quote:

She said why didn't you ask me.last night?

and why did you not ask her?? so what if she turned you down..you should be detached enough that it would not have bothered you if she did..

Quote:

I sound like a wuss or needy to continue to ask you.

She said that it does not make you sound like a wuss.

I don't think asking her makes you sound like a wuss..I think not asking her makes you sound "chicken chitt"

letting your fears control you will doom you to failure..

so what if she turned you down..

alright..I'm done..quit being a DAM

you're way past that..

I couldn't put my finger on what was bugging me the most about your post Tim. Thanks to MFT, I get it now.

If you want her to open up and be honest, you need to open up and be honest. 100% of the time (or as close to that number as you can get) I agree with MFT, she's seeing a bit of the old you coming through. You didn't get your way, so you go off in a huff.

I understand it is frustrating. But for posts and posts you paint this like you are completely contented with how things are going - spending time together, get along, etc. I'm saying this because I'm getting confused. Is there no middle? It's either going well or you hit a brick wall. I mentioned before about tiptoe-ing around and this is what I meant. You tiptoe until it doesn't get you what you want.

How long can you go on like this Tim? Yeah, the MC is saying have patience, but how much do you have?

WT

I knew MFT would beat me over the head for what I did and yes it is some of the old me coming through and yes I know better and yes it was a DAM move.

I talked to Ken on Friday and he hit me also and helped me to see things differently. He also gave me some ideas on what I should do and how to proceed from here.

WT, not sure how much patience I have left. Most of the time I have alot and feel I can wait till she is ready. But then there are those time that I can't. Its not often but it does happen.

It confuses me sometimes. I know what I want but its hard to know how hard to push for it and where I should sit back and wait. Its knowing how fast to push somethings and to go slow with other things.

I FU the other night but I did talk to her and I do think she understands better now where I am coming from and things went well this weekend after I got back from toronto.

Also we did text and email each other while I was driving to and from Toronto and while I was in Toronto. The emotional connection is getting stronger and I am glad about that but I still need the physical connection. I went about it wrong and do need to be more open in telling her that and that is something else Ken told me.

My W did call me today and invited me out to lunch for my birthday and that has not happened in I could not tell you how many years if ever. And that tells me alot.

I can't change the past but I will learn from it.

Thanks all

Tim

Quote:

I talked to Ken on Friday and he hit me also and helped me to see things differently. He also gave me some ideas on what I should do and how to proceed from here.

what you should do?? I don't get that sorry but I don't...that sounds like some plan to save your M?? What's up wid dat??

what you should do is "man up"....stop walking on eggshells..

if I wanted her in bed I'd ask her..if i wanted a hug I'd get it...

I'd be normal...I can imagine what it's like there now....

Quote:

The emotional connection is getting stronger and I am glad about that but I still need the physical connection.

for who?? you or her?? Are you assuming that it is for her?? Don't u think that if it was for her then something would be happening on the physical front..

what do you think WT??? you're a woman..give me your perspective here...if they are emotionally connected then I think you will be "getting it like you ought to be getting it"

fear will control you only if you let it...

I used to be afraid..especailly after the first failure..I'm not now..nor have I been with thesecond.....

Hell...I'm a survivor..

Quote:

what do you think WT??? you're a woman..give me your perspective here...if they are emotionally connected then I think you will be "getting it like you ought to be getting it"

I agree. If I'm emotionally connected to a man, he's getting laid. However, if it's a friends/sibling emotional connection, that would be a no. Is there an attraction? Maybe that's a question that needs be asked.

WT

Dayummmm straight....

emotionally connected for a women means "it's on like Donkey Kong"

I think they both walk around like there are 1 million broken eggs and they are trying to keep the yolk off their feet..

it's the same old song and dance...

Quote:

I think they both walk around like there are 1 million broken eggs

I think you are right. But Tim gets tired of walking on the eggs. He knows he is a good, loving man without doing that, but he feels he has to handle her gently until her confidence is built up. But I think she's happy with the way things are right now. And maybe for a long time.

To move forward a few eggshells may have to be broken.

Is the authentic Tim the one walking on the eggshells?

WT

I'm saying in a sitch like you described yesterday..where you left the bed..

I'm saying aask her..for what you need..I'm not saying ask her to bed you..but if I wanted a hug I'd go give her a hug and see what happened..if I would like her to come to bed early then I'd tell her..I'm going on a trip..can you come to bed early so we can spend some time together??

and you said things were better emotionally...and i ask for who??

if you are reading her mind then good for you..has she said things are better emotionally? are you assuming, or are you talking about your emotional state..

I'm looking for clarification??

and it's true.if a woman is connected emotionally then she is putting it on me...for sure...

and I have not said to disregard your MC's advice..I thgink you need to be patient also..and clearly you were not the other night..

Quote:

See now this is where I am confused. Your saying in one sentence to just do it but in the next you are saying I would be having sex if she was emotionally connected to me. How do you persue physical contact with a woman if she is not emotionally connected to me in that way?

To persue a woman physically start going around the bases. Just like high school. I don't think anyone is saying go straight to penetration. I see snuggling and cuddling. Is there any exchange of bodily fluids? (Kissing is what I mean, but I mean kissing) What's the next physical step beyond where you are today? Or maybe you need to work on consistent hugging as the MC suggested. Until you get consistency in your physical interactions you're going to circle the drain. MHO.

WT

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Quote:

I talked to Ken on Friday and he hit me also and helped me to see things differently. He also gave me some ideas on what I should do and how to proceed from here.

what you should do?? I don't get that sorry but I don't...that sounds like some plan to save your M?? What's up wid dat??

what you should do is "man up"....stop walking on eggshells..

if I wanted her in bed I'd ask her..if i wanted a hug I'd get it...

I'd be normal...I can imagine what it's like there now....

No nothing like that. he said if I want to hold her hand then do it. If I want to more physical contact from her then ask. Sort of what you are saying.

Quote:

The emotional connection is getting stronger and I am glad about that but I still need the physical connection.

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

for who?? you or her?? Are you assuming that it is for her?? Don't u think that if it was for her then something would be happening on the physical front..

what do you think WT??? you're a woman..give me your perspective here...if they are emotionally connected then I think you will be "getting it like you ought to be getting it"

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

I agree. If I'm emotionally connected to a man, he's getting laid. However, if it's a friends/sibling emotional connection, that would be a no. Is there an attraction? Maybe that's a question that needs be asked.

Apparently for me only in a husband/ wife way because I'm getting nothing.

See now this is where I am confused. Your saying in one sentence to just do it but in the next you are saying I would be having more physical contact and sex if she was emotionally connected to me. How do you persue physical contact with a woman if she is not emotionally connected to me in that way? Because without it we are just room mates and I don't want that.

Ok, let me clear a few things up.

Yes, she is happy where things are at right now. She pretty much said that in MC. Also she has said to me many times that things are getting better and that she likes spending time with me and talking to me. But as far as the emotional connection or how strong it is that I do not know, only she knows.

The talking, texting, emailing and like today the going out to lunch has improved immensely but the more that improves and the more connected I feel towards her the more I want to be physically close to her and that is the touchy part of our R at this point. It�s problematic for me because I want more and I am not sure exactly where she stands on it.

I can�t not try and pursue it because than I know nothing will happen and we will sit in limbo but I can�t push it too hard because then things could take a step backwards if she is not ready. Which I don�t think she knows whether she is or not IMO.

I asked her on Thursday morning where she sees our R going but did not get an answer. Hopefully in MC next Tuesday I will be able to get one from her because that would be a really big help to me.

I appreciate all that the both you have said and I needed to hear it. It makes me think and helps me to return the focus to me and not her or us.

How about 'flirty' talk.. suggestive talk that you did (right?) when dating & in the early years?

I agree with WT... if I'm emotionally connected to my man (healthy or not)... he's getting laid. He's being pursued... flirted with, bantered with, etc. My BoB & I are sooo close these days, he's so plugged into to my needs... but I digress!

Try priming the banter pump (no pun intended)... flirt with her... help her remember how to feel 'sexy' & connected to you.

Try some flirty, dirty talk with a twinkle & a smirk...let her respond (hopefully) and then just walk away...

let her know that is safe to be there (flirting with you) and YOU ARE OK WITH NOT GETTING SEX

she needs reassurance that just because she flirted with you & you don't get laid, that you're not going back to 'old tim'.... baby steps..

patience.. you're doing great.
Peace
Bridge

PS>. happy birthday

Thanks Bridge,

Long time since I have heard from you. Hope you are doing well.

I understand what Mike, WT and you are saying to me and I will be working on being more assertive. I guess I have been waiting for something from her that lets me know that she is comfotable with our R and is ready to move forward but what it seems everyone is saying is that how will I know unless I keep testing the water. And I need to do it without any expectations or without getting offended if the response is negative.

The other night we went to the movies and I placed my hand on her leg and she did not move away. Its something I need to do more of while we are watching tv or taking walks as others have suggested.

As for the sex part. Its not that I want her to jump my bones I would like her to just come to bed and be with me. Just laying there snuggling with me is fine. I have told he that on many occasions that I do not expect sex from her at all until she is ready.

Take care and have a great weekend Bridge,

Tim

Hey photon queen....if your around how bout stopping in over in Batchittcrazyville?? I need your experience over there...and it ain't about divorce..

Hey Tim,

What's up?

The weather has been gorgeous so I'm sure you are busy hanging out in it.

Check in, please,

WT

Hi WT,

Not much really going on here. Been out and played golf the last two weekends. Had a reaaly good time. Was nice to get away from everything and just enjoy the day.

On the 4th we had a cook out at the neighbors house. We were having a good time when we noticed that the dogs were not around. My W had left the gate open and one of our friends dog got lost. It took us over an hour to find her. My W was so upset that she went home and did not come back.

Our friends kept asking me what was up and I told them she was upset about leaving the gate open and the dog getting lost. A couple of them went over to my house to tell her it was alright but she did not come back.

I told them that it was her decision and I stayed and finished out the evening there and the kids and I watched as other people put on some really good fireworks.

Went home talk to my W and we watch a little tv then went to bed.

Other than that all is pretty calm on the home front. I am taking off on the 22th to take my son and his friend to Hershey Park and then we are all going to DC for the rest of the week and weekend to visit my mom and brother and tour the museums.

Then on the 7th I am taking my daughter back to DC because her and my mom are going to Egypt. My son and I are going to spend the weekend at my brothers and go tubing down the Potomic.

So between swimming and all that stuff I have a very busy couple of weeks ahead but it should be fun.

How are you doing WT. Any fun plans for the rest of the summer?

Hey!

Thanks for posting an update. Was wondering what you were up to.

I LOVE Hershey! That sounds like a good time...and your mom and D going to Egypt. Awesome. I'm jealous! Sounds like you're going to be doing lots of traveling up and down 95/83.

I'm trying to talk a friend or 2 into going to Atlantic city. That's about as exciting as it's going to get for me. I just started taking classes, my teaching starts in August - those 2 things take up all my free time.

Your W is awfully hard on herself. A shame, but her choice and her gig. Does she know why she does this (childhood stuff?)?

We're all hard on ourselves, I know. But I don't have the attention span to stay mad at me! Or maybe that's old age.

WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

...and your mom and D going to Egypt. Awesome. I'm jealous!

You and me both, they also went to Alaska last year. My mom loves to travel and my D makes the perfect companion. They both love to read, my mom does not need to entertain her and my D does not go out drinking and partying.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Your W is awfully hard on herself. A shame, but her choice and her gig. Does she know why she does this (childhood stuff?)?

Don't know, tried to talk her into coming back over but she made a laim excuse of having a headache because of the margareta's she had been drinking. Whatever her loss in my opinion.

Quote:

Don't know, tried to talk her into coming back over but she made a laim excuse of having a headache because of the margareta's she had been drinking. Whatever her loss in my opinion.

I agree. But it does shed light (at least for me) on how your W reacts to situations. I guess I'd always thought that she was afraid of you and you only. But it seems this fear extends beyond that - this is the first situation that you've shared that has made me think that. Sorry if I'm behind in getting that.

Have you been going to MC? Are you as detached as you sound? And I mean that in a good way - I know you're still working on this but you sound very balanced.

Rain this weekend! But it has been a beautiful week!

WT

Yes, we are still going to MC.

I am pretty balanced right now. I just want more physical contact as I have been saying for awhile. Last Tuesday I brought this up in MC. Asked my W where she sees us in 3 to 6 months, if she was still attacted to me both physically and sexually.

She did not answer it directly but with some questions by the C she did admit that there are times she feels attacted to me but does not know how to act on it. She brought up something that happened a couple of weeks earlier. We were playing croquet with her family and something happened and I gave her a little hug and kiss on the head. She said she thought about going more with it but did not.

I thought it was interesting because I had completely forgot about it but for some reason it stuck with her. The MC asked her to not think about it next time and just go with it when something like that happens. Its little baby steps that we need to take she said. She also told me not to try and get more than my W is willing to give.

I told her I would try but understand that I want more out if this R than we have right now. But I know that she is not ready and will not push anything or force her to do anything she does not want to do. I told her about what happened the other morning and I appologized to my W for handeling it the wrong way and also told her how I should of handeled it. But that she needs to know that I feel love different than her and mine is the physical side of love.

My W said that she knows this and will try and work on it and that she understand my POV.

As for my W and not wanting to face things head on that is her. She is fine till things come to a head or she thinks someone is upset with her and she either shuts down as she does with me or walks away as she did on Saturday. Don't think I ever mentioned that before.

Have a great weekend anyway WT even if it rains.

Tim

I'm loving this weather, hard to believe it's July....

Quote:

She did not answer it directly but with some questions by the C she did admit that there are times she feels attacted to me but does not know how to act on it.

Is this because she feels that any physical contact she gives you will result in ML? Bloody shame because you've shown her that you will be patient. It's hard to take a first step in any situation, I understand. And even harder to take the first step if you realize that step will result in more steps and it's those steps you're not sure of.

Sounds like until she's ready to ML, she won't do the physical stuff. IMHO.

You're doing well, Tim. Hope things continue to go well for you.

WT

*poke*

Just checkin.

WT

Double *poke*

Just stoppin' by - I'm stalking whiskey.tango and since she came over here I figured I'd at least take a dump (and I mean a hello dump)...

Quote:

I'm stalking whiskey.tango

You make me feel special!!! Stalk me any time!

Wait! Look at how quickly I responded! Maybe I'm actually stalking you!

WT

Do you two want to get a room?

Hope you both had a great weekend I know I had one.

Oops. Was only kidding...

Weekends are always good.

WT

I needed to link my post so you read the right one first.

how goes it tim?

by the way..lost you in the alternate..look me back up please..

bump....you still alive and kicking?

I am still alive not sure about kicking. I have not been on here in a while not a whole lot to report. Life is moving along alot faster than my R but that is to be expected.

Been spending most of my time working and enjoying the summer. Went canoeing with my son, tubing with my brother and to the beach with the family for a weekend.

Most of the time it is good. W and I spend time together and get along well. We still go to MC even though she is not that into it. She told the MC last time we were there that we are good friends and that we get along well but she does not have those feelings of being in love. She said that she thought that they would have come back by now but they had not.

I asked her if she had thought about what she wanted out of this R. Where she thought we would be in a couple of years. Does she see us as friends, roomates, lovers or what. She said that some times she thinks we will be together and other times she does not. Same old same old but her actions just don't back that up.

It irritated me for a day or two but then I realized that she is where she is at and there is noting I can do about it. I need to just redirect that focus from her and back to me and let what will happen happen. I did that and got myself recentered.

That was last week, this week she invited me out to lunch yesterday, signed us up for a cooking class and checked out a date to go to a Mystery Weekend getaway. My mom last Christmas said that she would pay for a Mystery Weekend for us as a gift. I checked out dates back in February but she really never seemed all that interested in going so I dropped it. Its not like my mom payed for it and I figured since I asked twice that that was enough.

So that is it in a nut shell. You seem to be doing well. Check out your FB page just to keep up with you.

Take care Mike.

Tim

Hey,

How's things going? This year has flown by....

I'm hoping the weather predictions are off - it could be an interesting weekend!

Have a great Christmas!
WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Hey,

How's things going? This year has flown by....

I'm hoping the weather predictions are off - it could be an interesting weekend!

Have a great Christmas!
WT

Things are going ok. Its a very slow process and most times it seems better and then there are times that it does not but they are few and far inbetween.

This weekend was fun. We got abot 12 inches of snow and it really put a damper on our Christmas festivaties. We were suppose to go to DC this weekend and have Christmas with my mom and all my brothers, sister and neices and nephews but that did not happen. Spent all day Saturday shoveling snow and watching movies. All in all it was a relaxing weekend for me.

How are things with you? Hopefully you were able to dig yourself out.

Have a great Christmas also.

Tim

Hi Tim,
Glad hings are 'progressing' even slowly...

Blessings and well wishes to your family during this special time of year.

Peace
Bridge

Originally Posted By: Bridgestone

Hi Tim,
Glad hings are 'progressing' even slowly...

Blessings and well wishes to your family during this special time of year.

Peace
Bridge

Thanks Bridge,

Sorry to see where yours is progressing to hopefully the both of you can work together and not have to battle the whole way through.

Have a very Merry Christmas and drive safely if you are going back home to be with your family.

Tim

*poke*

Ooops! Wrong universe.....

How are you?

WT

Sorry got kicked of the internet in the middle of posting.

I'm Fine but the relationship is stagnate. Not sure where to proceed to at the moment. She says that things are much better between us and that she is much more connected to me than she has been in a long time but she does not have "those" feelings for me. I asked her if she meant that she "loved me but was not in love with me still" and she said yes.

I asked her if she thought that she could get "those" feelings back and she said at the moment no. She told me that she is trying but they are not there. I told her that if she is waiting for that newness spark to occur that its not going to happen that we have been together for a long time and have been though a lot. She said that I just don�t think it should be this hard. So I said that maybe we should think about a trial separation and me moving out for a while.

She did not take that very well. She asked my why I wanted to do that? I told her I did not want to do that, I do not want to leave my kids nor everything I have worked for but I feel sometimes that my being here puts added pressure on you and that its hard for me to be around you and be this emotionally connected to you and yet not be able to express it in a physical way such as kissing, hugging, snuggling and of course sex.

I asked her why she does not want me to leave, why do you want me here? She said that I enjoy your company and your friendship. I thanked her for saying that.

There was more said but it all boils down to this, is my being there or me leaving the right choice for me at the moment. As I look back on it all its been a long three years for me and I can see pro�s and con�s for both arguments. I am too close to the situation and maybe time away is good however time apart could really hurt all that we have gained in the last year.

I talked to Ken this weekend and his points are very valid that whatever I do it must be without expectations for an end result and must be what is best for me. I�m not sure what to do just that what we are doing is making us good friends but not a married couple.

That�s my story.

How you doing WT. The weather is much nicer this week and spring is just a couple of months away.

Thanks for asking, not sure you wanted to hear all that.

Tim

Tim,

I asked because I did want to hear all that. Glad you talked to Ken. It helps to hear yourself say things rather than leave it rolling around in your head. Helps to set it free.

So, you told her you would move out, then told her you didn't want to? To me, that says, if you don't start treating me better, I'm going to leave. If you feel like you're putting pressure on her, then stop it. From what you've written here, she regards you as a room mate. Good company, good friend. That may be where you are right now. My guess is you are getting along great. As long as it stays friends.

If you are going to move out, do so with the intent that you may not be coming back. Move out for personal reasons, not just because things aren't going your way. And I agree, you can't do work on this R if you're not there. What's going to get better if you leave? You're still not going to get laid ( at least by your W) and you'll miss your kids. Will you be able to accept her choices if you're gone? Because this would be a separation, right?

Check in with your intentions. Try not to do something just to get a reaction. What's the next step? She's been honest and open, so have you. The cards are on the table. Are you needs so great that this is becoming a dealbreaker?

Is winter over or are we going to get more of the white stuff? Today was gorgeous. Despite that little dump of snow, I feel like spring is here. I'm not putting away the winter clothes yet, though.

WT

I see what you are saying WT but my statement though seeming to be a contradiction is not really. I do not want to move out, leave my kids, my house, my W. However a non physical roommate relationship with the woman I love is most definitely a deal breaker for me.

It�s not about "getting laid" as my W has told me it�s about having the complete emotional/ physical relationship that constitutes a marriage. It�s that feeling of oneness that you get only from the person that you are in love with. As I have told her or at least tried to explain to her. If I just wanted sex strictly for the sake of having sex I would have done it a long time ago but it would not meet my needs. Maybe in the short run but it would only be a temporary fix.

I suggested the trial separation not as a threat or a way to manipulate but as a way maybe to give us both space and time to think. Our emotion connection has grown in the last year, as she has said also, but my desire to be physical has also and hers has not. In the last month we have argued twice over it to the point that she has started to pull away.

I don't want that but I also cannot pretend that it does not bother me that I feel physically attracted to her but she does not to me. Like I said three years is a long time and as the emotional connection grows so does my frustration over the non physical aspect. That is where the pressure comes from. It�s not intentional but it�s there none the less.

She knows how I feel, she knows what I want but I am just not sure how to back off physically without backing off emotionally. It�s one in the same for me now when it comes to her. I did for a long time, there was no physical or emotional connection. I did it in order to work on myself, I needed to be unconnected to her. But as time went on and especially this last year we have gotten really close and now with having that emotional connection I desire the physical more than ever. It�s a catch 22 and it sucks.

I don�t want to hurt her or abandon her or anything like that but I also don�t want to keep fighting over it nor do I want to keep fighting my own feeling and desires. How do I balance that and not put pressure on her? That is really what it all boils down to. My inner turmoil over her wants and my wants at this particular moment not being the same.

AAHHH a shrink would have a field day with me.

Hopefully that clears it up. Doesn�t solve anything though but your post does make me think, as always.

Keep the winter caots and hats out I am sure old man winter will hit us atleast one more time before spring comes.

Tim

I'm not suggesting you're shallow (getting laid), that's just my way of expressing myself. I apologize for being insensitive. I know it's about the whole package for you. I'm one of those crazies that like that complete emotional/physical connection too. I'm getting old and jaded.

It may have not been your intention to threaten, but that's how it sounded to me. Your conversation sounded like it could be applying pressure. Again, not your intention, but it could have sounded like that to her.

Quote:

I don�t want to hurt her or abandon her or anything like that but I also don�t want to keep fighting over it nor do I want to keep fighting my own feeling and desires. How do I balance that and not put pressure on her? That is really what it all boils down to. My inner turmoil over her wants and my wants at this particular moment not being the same.

I completely understand this. To me, she continues to have control over this situation. She sets the tempo for your R. You cannot balance it without her input - how can one side balance a situation? IMHO, surrendering to the situation for a while is a possible solution. Doing nothing. What can you do? You're up against a situation that's not going to move until she decides it will. And your frustration? Will have to be tabled for now.

Has she given any indication where the disconnect is within her? Until a problem is acknowledged, it can't be fixed.

A shrink would not have a field day with you. You think too much. A man's job is to fix things. You're just doing your job.

I wish I had better advice.
WT

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

I'm not suggesting you're shallow (getting laid), that's just my way of expressing myself. I apologize for being insensitive. I know it's about the whole package for you. I'm one of those crazies that like that complete emotional/physical connection too. I'm getting old and jaded.

I know you did not mean it that way but my W has said it that way in the past. I am not very good at explaining it to her she just sees it as me wanting sex and only sex. It might be different now but I�m not a mind reader.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

It may have not been your intention to threaten, but that's how it sounded to me. Your conversation sounded like it could be applying pressure. Again, not your intention, but it could have sounded like that to her.

Your right, always two ways of looking at things.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Quote:

I don�t want to hurt her or abandon her or anything like that but I also don�t want to keep fighting over it nor do I want to keep fighting my own feeling and desires. How do I balance that and not put pressure on her? That is really what it all boils down to. My inner turmoil over her wants and my wants at this particular moment not being the same.

I completely understand this. To me, she continues to have control over this situation. She sets the tempo for your R. You cannot balance it without her input - how can one side balance a situation? IMHO, surrendering to the situation for a while is a possible solution. Doing nothing. What can you do? You're up against a situation that's not going to move until she decides it will. And your frustration? Will have to be tabled for now.

It always ends up back here doesn�t it? I feel like I keep surrendering to the situation. Allowing her to control the pace. It works for a while, I shelve my desires for a couple of months and go with the flow. We get closer more connected but that just brings me back to wanting the physical again. Round and round and round.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

Has she given any indication where the disconnect is within her? Until a problem is acknowledged, it can't be fixed.

Yes and no, she has said that she did not like me for a long time and that it has been a long time since she has had those feeling for me and she is not sure how to get them back. She has admitted that she thought she was �in love� with him because she wanted someone to pay attention to her. But she has also said that she did not tell me when I did something that upset her nor did she communicate her needs to me even when I asked her. I also think she now understand how much it hurt me when I would try and talk to her about improving our R when the kids were very young and she would say �I get everything I need from the kids� how that made me feel unwanted and an outsider in her life. How that contributed to me emotionally distancing myself from her.

This is stuff I have gathered over our last six months of talking and getting closer. Not sure she has put it all together or not but just from the things she has said I think my side of the story is becoming clearer to her. She just knew I was an angry miserable person that did not pay attention to her but she never saw how she contributed to how I was.

So yes I think she has an idea what the disconnection within her is but no I don�t think she knows exactly what it is nor whether she wants to fix it or not.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

A man's job is to fix things. You're just doing your job.

Yea, can�t break myself of that habit either.

Originally Posted By: whiskey.tango

I wish I had better advice.
WT

Not sure any advice can really help. Just nice to here other peoples prospective.

Quote:

It always ends up back here doesn�t it? I feel like I keep surrendering to the situation. Allowing her to control the pace. It works for a while, I shelve my desires for a couple of months and go with the flow. We get closer more connected but that just brings me back to wanting the physical again. Round and round and round

As I was typing that reply last night, I thought the exact same thing. I know you and I have had this same conversation more than once. What's going to break the cycle?

WT

Our MC told me that she will never get what sex means to me, so quit trying to explain it to her, she will never get it.

That really hit me hard and somehow relieved me. Is this a hormone thing with her, does she not have needs in that area? Sex therapist, being suggested? I will go back and read some of your Sitch, so you do not have to reply on things you have probablly gone over adnauseum.

Good luck,

Burt

Yes we have had this convo before. Which brings me right back to the trial seperation and me moving out. Not a threat, not meant to hurt or force her hand or any of that stuff. Just a way to maybe break this cycle and give us both a different persective.

Will we miss each other, will we not? Will it bring us closer or move us further apart? Is it the right thing to do or not? Trust me I have debated it many times and did nothing about it until this weekend. Its the sh** or get off the pot deal.

It also brings me back to what Ken said. Do it without any expectations of how it will play out and do it for the right reasons. That being because it is the best thing for me at the moment and not to force her to miss me/ want me back.

But as in all these choices it is figuring out what is the true reason for doing it and only I can answer that one. I did not make the suggestion lightly nor on the spare of the moment. I'm trying to keep emotions out of it but thats hard to do. I'm pretty easy to read I wear them on my sleeve and that's a bad thing sometimes.

Tim

Originally Posted By: dburt

Our MC told me that she will never get what sex means to me, so quit trying to explain it to her, she will never get it.

That really hit me hard and somehow relieved me. Is this a hormone thing with her, does she not have needs in that area? Sex therapist, being suggested? I will go back and read some of your Sitch, so you do not have to reply on things you have probablly gone over adnauseum.

Good luck,

Burt

I stopped expecting her to get it a while ago. The issue with her is that she is not "in love" with me and thus does not have a desire to be physical with me. Whether its emotional or physical is hard to tell. If she was "in love" with me and did not have a desire than I would say it was a hormone thing. I know she does not want it or need it as much as I do that I have learned to live with but the not at all is what I cannot live with. Its part of a healthy R and a loving M and I don't think I should settle for less than that.

Thanks for your input Burt.

Tim

Well its official we will be working on a trial seperation. After discussion this morning it is clear that this will be the best for both of us. She does not have those feelings for me and after a year of nothing really changing that living together is not improving our situation.

I told her that I need a wife who loves me and wants to be with me and I think that my being here is forcing you to try and get those feelings back for me and not because you want them back. She did not disagree with that assesment.

Not sure how to proceed from here but I have looked at stuff on the internet and I have a place I can move into for a while. What I have read is that we should put a time frame on how long we should live apart and of course arraingments for seeing the kids and financial stuff. Really worried about telling my kids. Did not want to put them through what I went through and maybe that is why I have fough so hard for so long.

Not sure if I am all that sad at the moment, not sure what I really feel. Sort of numb but then again sort of knew this was likely to be the outcome all along.

well hell....interesting..

I'll ask...Have you run out of patience? Or is this an effort on your part to "get her to see what she will be missing?"

When we begin this path then you must be prepared to stay the course no matter what IMO...

Like I said in my emails to you a week or so ago...

I believe it's physical.....hormonal or a chemical imbalance...

Quote:

I believe it's physical.....hormonal or a chemical imbalance...

MFT - why do you think it's physical? (chemical or hormonal)

I agree, from what Tim has written here it seems like this all started once the kids were born, but that stuff usually straightens out. From a female perspective, I think it's emotional which directly influences the physical.

Sorry if I'm butting in on a conversation you guys had privately, and if it's already been discussed to death then pass this by.

WT

well it appears to me that if Tim has been on the up and up with us from the beginning and he realized he was once an ass and treated her bad but has changed for the better and their relationship has been good over the last year or so...and they appear to have drawn closer.....she has even said she wants his company..seeks him out and it sounds like he is her BFF...then

I think she/he needs to look elsewhere for the reason for her lack of sexual desire for Tim...she's either at the age (40's) or approaching the age where some stranghe things are taking place for a woman..

Of course I'm not a doctor..but I am staying at a Holiday Inn when I go out of town this weekend!!

I said to her this morning that we are closer than we have been in the last 10 years and she asked me if I reeally beleived that. I said yes and then asked her if it was not true for her. She said that our communication is better but as far as the emotional connection I would say no.

That to me says that I have been feeling something different from her and she has been saying something different to me. It says her lack of desire is not hormones but emotional. Meaning she is not in love with me at all.

I have to agree, even a woman (no offense) eventually has to get some every now and then, it is hormonal, it is nature at its highest degree.

My question is, has this been discussed with your wife at all.

If the separation is being done stragically to get that spark back, I understand.

Burt

This cycle continues to go round and round and round. And yes Mike I believe I have ran out of patience. I have tried to be understanding and accepting but sometimes I feel that deep down this is what she wants and maybe what she wanted all along for me to leave. For me to make the decision and take the guilt of breaking us up off of her. It may just be my heartbreak talking but I don't think I am totally off base here.

Something needs to change. Doing the same thing over and over is not working for me and I have to stop and take care of me.

Originally Posted By: dburt

My question is, has this been discussed with your wife at all.

If the separation is being done stragically to get that spark back, I understand.

Burt

You talking about the seperation? Yes we are in the begining stages of that. Alot of details to work out first.

Have I thought this might cause a sprark in her , yes, I would be lying if I had not but its not why I am doing this. I truely believe that with me continuing to live in the same house with her and sleeping in the same bed with her its going to produce more of the same. Nothing, and that is not acceptable to me any more.

Quote:

Meaning she is not in love with me at all.

so she chooses not to love you

I mean we all know that that "spark" we feel when we first meet "the one" is not something that just naturally lasts. You have to continually feed that...so she chooses not to feed that spark any more...

well then...looks like you have no other options if she is fine physically.....

You need to do what you feel you need to do...I would caution you against the following

some people hold on forever...some here hold on forever...at some point you must move forward...3 years is a long time..I admire you for that...

but..LOL...not too many here are gonna convince me that a lot of these issues in some of these 40 something women..are not hormonal...JMHO..

Your right she chooses not to have feelings for me. Why? I do not know don't think she really knows. But I have stuck it out a long time as you know, much longer than I thought I would.

This time alone may give me the chance to explore my feeling and maybe they are not as strong for her as I think they are. It may just be that we have been together for 22 years and it is a comfort thing for me. Maybe I'm a little scared of being alone after all this time. I'm not sure but I guess I will find out and I need to use this time to really do some hard looking at what I want and what I need and go from there.

This song keeps going through my head, "I poured it on and I poured it out. I tried to show you just how much I care. I'm tired of word and I'm to horse to shout but you've been cold to me so long I'm crying icicles instead of tears."

It sums up where I am. I'm tired of fighting for my M alone. I just don't seem to have it in me anymore.

well it sucks Tim....22 years wow...

I guess the ones who can put their own chitt aside are the ones who last forever..the ones who can't...well, they're f**kin' selfish in my opinion...

you'll be good..I have confidence that you will..

I hope your right Mike,

My insides are in notts right now. Trying to concentrate on work. Not doing a very good job at it though.

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

It may just be that we have been together for 22 years and it is a comfort thing for me. Maybe I'm a little scared of being alone after all this time.

No doubt, that's a part of it. 22 years ia long time, Distressed.

Quote:

My insides are in notts right now

well...no reason for knots yet...IMO..you'r just spearating..I'm actually wondering how separated you'll actually be if she really truly enjoys you around like she says she does..

an old cold bed may do her wonders..

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Quote:

My insides are in notts right now

well...no reason for knots yet...IMO..you'r just spearating..

Yea just seperating but still a very big step for me.

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

I'm actually wondering how separated you'll actually be if she really truly enjoys you around like she says she does..

I guess that's the right question, how much does she like me being around? Only the Shadow knows.

I'm new to this stuff not sure how much communication we should have? Been looking at articals on the internet trying to get an idea how to set this all up and make sure everything is taken care up finacially and logistically for the kids.

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

an old cold bed may do her wonders..

I love you Mike, you always make me laugh.

Just got done telling my mom that I was going to be moving into the apartment she keeps for when she use to come up here for meetings but no longer uses it. She had been looking for someone to sub-lease it. That was one of the hardest things I have had to do. She had no ides we were having such problems. Guess I'm a pretty good actor also.

Really did not want to do that to her over the phone but I knew she has been trying to get out of the lease and didn't want my place to stay to vanish. Now its trying to figure out if I should inform the rest of my family expecially my dad. He will be the worst of all to tell. He's alot like me wears his emotions on his sleeve and really will take it hard.

Originally Posted By: soleil

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

It may just be that we have been together for 22 years and it is a comfort thing for me. Maybe I'm a little scared of being alone after all this time.

No doubt, that's a part of it. 22 years ia long time, Distressed.

22 years with the same woman and 17 years with my kids. Never been away from them for more than 4-5 days. Wow this will take some getting use to.

Thanks for dropping in Soleil

Worry is wasted energy.

"Worrying is carrying tomorrow's load with today's strength- carrying two days at once. It is moving into tomorrow ahead of time. Worrying doesn't empty tomorrow of its sorrow, it empties today of its strength."
� Corrie Ten Boom

If you are going ahead with the seperation then make the most of it. CRISIS = RISK + Opportunity. She is scared as well. She's watching you to see how you handle this. This is a opportunity for her to feel attracted to you again. Strength, confidence, honor, poise, and purpose will help you and attract women. It will hurt at times but it's how you bounce back that matters. You can handle it.

Cheers

Quote:

I love you Mike, you always make me laugh.

I told Racefan via text this morning, "love ya man, mean it" then I followed that up with..."that could be gay"..so in that spirit i shall say to you.."that could be gay"

anyway..I don't know if there are any set rules..you two sit down and hash it out..

you'll be alright..BTW..Racefan's divorce was set for today...it was postponed due to bad weather..Imagine that...

I'm gonna say a prayer for you and put you/wife and family on the prayer list at church if that's ok Tim....I'm not a real religious guy but try to go to church every once in a while...One of the many things I've learned through all this is how to pray..

Thanks Coach,

I understand what you are saying. Worring about something that has not happened is useless. Thanks for reminding me to focus on today and what I am doing now.

As for the fact that she is watching me that is an interesting thought. She said to me this morning that she did not want me to be mean to her because of this. I told her that I would never be mean to her, I might get or be upset or hurt but I will not be mean to you.

Thats the old me the person I was. The person who I will never be again. I will do my best to be as strong and confident as possible through all of this.

Tim

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Quote:

I love you Mike, you always make me laugh.

I told Racefan via text this morning, "love ya man, mean it" then I followed that up with..."that could be gay"..so in that spirit i shall say to you.."that could be gay"

anyway..I don't know if there are any set rules..you two sit down and hash it out..

you'll be alright..BTW..Racefan's divorce was set for today...it was postponed due to bad weather..Imagine that...

I'm gonna say a prayer for you and put you/wife and family on the prayer list at church if that's ok Tim....I'm not a real religious guy but try to go to church every once in a while...One of the many things I've learned through all this is how to pray..

Mike,

I would be very happy if you put us on your church's prayer list. I'm not overly religious myself nor do I get to church as often as I should. But knowing that people are out there praying for me may give me some more streangth to get though this.

Tim

ps. its that southern drawl that make you so irresistible.

cool...let me kniow if you move over to Separated..it's hard to keep up witht ghe old crew..there are so many here now..

Good Morning..

How was your weekend? How are you?

WT

WT,

I'm doing fine I had a nice relaxing weekend. W and I talked on Sunday morning as you can read below but it was civil and informative of what she is kind of thinking. She is teetering back and forth mixed feelings I understand that. Not much I can do about where I am or where all this is headed at the moment.

How was your weekend? Did you get that storm last night. Windy as he11 and we lost power this morning which sucks.

On Sunday I asked my W if she had thought about the trial separation and she said a little. She asked me if I had and I said that I had thought a lot about it and looked up stuff on the internet. She said that she had looked up a little too.

She asked me what I had found. I told her that I read articles on setting up agreements on who should move out, how long the separation should last before a decision is made to allow each person time to decide what they want.

She said that she looked up articles on the best way to tell the kids. She asked if I had thought about the pros and cons of doing this and I said that I had but I did not write them down. I told her that we should both do that.

She seemed to be very apprehensive to have this conversation but I persisted. I told her that I do not want to live this way for the rest of my life and she agreed. I told her that I was happy with myself but she does not seem to know what she wants or what will make her happy. I said that I want both of us to be happy either together of separate. She agreed.

She said that this would be so much easier if we did not like each other. (I feel it is easier because we get along well otherwise we would be fighting about every little thing and we would not be able to do this like mature adults.) I told her I felt that we had grown much closer in the last year but you are very reluctant or unable to get over all that has happened between us in the past. I told her that I think being this close could be preventing us from figuring out what each of us wants.

I suggested to her that she really needs to go talk to a professional and to be open and honest about how you feel. She said that she is an honest person. (yes, I let that one slide no sense in arguing over a difference of opinions on whether she was honest or not) I told her what I meant was she needs to be honest with herself about how she feels and what she wants. That she needs to stop worrying about what other people think about her and to stop trying to please everyone and telling people what they want to hear.

She said that she does do that and that she is a people pleaser. I told her I know that but its time to figure out what you want and what will make you happy because I cannot do that and until you figure it out you will never be happy.

This has been the sticking point since the beginning. She just refuses to open up to anybody and until she works out her issues our relationship issues will never get resolved. And until she looks deep inside herself and is truly honest with herself about how she feels and what she wants she will never know how to be happy with me or anybody else. (Just like her mother)

I am going to continue working on my end of the separation agreement. Basically it�s about how we will handle the finances, my visitation with the kids, time we might spend together and of course that there be nobody else brought into the mix. This is time for each of us to step back and re-evaluate ourselves and figure out what we want. It�s not a time to complicate this mess with other people. It�s not fair to either one of us nor the person that gets dragged into it.

She hates change and this would be a major one for her but staying �comfortably unhappy� as someone stated to me is unacceptable. I cannot continue on the same course I have been for the last year and expect different results. I�m not happy with the current status of our relationship. We are still just roommates, we just get along better. I feel without change, without me doing something different that it will just continue as is and I deserve more than that.

Tim

Reality is a cold heartless bitch sometimes.

On Sunday I decided to talk to my W again about our trial separation. You would think this was the first time I brought it up. She had those deer in the headlights look.

I asked her if she has thought about it this week. She said no. (WHAT!!!???)

She asked me if I had and I said yes I have a lot. I made a list of the pros and cons of me staying and moving out. She asked if there were more pros than cons and I said yes, a lot more. The biggest con of me leaving, besides the kids of course, is the loss of connection that we have gained over the last 12 to 16 months. Also I don�t want to abandon you again emotionally as I did way back when.

But there are some pros also. I feel that I am putting too much pressure on you and I don�t know how to not do that in the same house. I feel my wants are trumping yours at the moment and that is not right. I think that by me moving out it will give you time and space to hopefully figure out what you want and what will make you happy.

She said she does not know what will make her happy and I said exactly. She brought up IC for herself again. I told her that would be a huge help and asked if she made an appointment? (I knew the answer already before I asked) No, she said but I really need to do that. (Do ya think?)

I said yes you do, for yourself and you need to really be open and honest with them. I know that it�s difficult I went though it when I first started but I�m happy now. I�m happy with everything in my life. She said except me. I said no, I�m unhappy with our R not you. It�s totally different. I care about you I told her and I want you to be happy with or with out me I really do.

She said it was easier for me because we were in the same house. I said we were physically in the same house but both of us were gone. I told her it took a lot of work on my part to change. I changed for me then I started to work on our R. I read books and found that you see and feel things different than I do. I learned how you perceive love and I focused on those things because we tend to give other people the type of love we want and not what they really need.

She said you never offered me any books. I said yes I did I told you a while back that I have some really great books. There in my night stand feel free to get one. There is one about the Love Languages that explains what I have told you many times better than I can. There is one about healing from an abusive relationship and there is an excellent one about learning how to communicate and improve your R.

I told her I was planning on moving out at the end of February. I figured we could get through swim season. Give ourselves time to plan how this is going to work and the biggest hurtle is telling the kids. She asked me what things we needed to figure out.

I told her I have some articles that say we need to figure out how long this separation should last till we make a decision, if we should date and how often that should be. How often should we communicate, if we should go to a MC, each persons responsibilities and of course the finances of the whole thing.

She said this is real isn�t it? (No fu**ing chitt I wanted to say, it dosen�t get any more real than this.) I just said Yea. She asked how this works? How often do we talk and stuff. I said I don�t know but I like talking, texting and meeting you for lunch I would like that to continue. I also think we should date. I have a paper upstairs that I started to list the things I want out of this but I need your input. She sort of just nodded.

Now for the tough part we moved onto the kids. I told her that I need to spend time with the kids. I know my job is very demanding so I am not asking for a 50/50 split. Plus they are older, 14 & 17 so they don�t need to be taken care of like small children. I was thinking every other weekend I stay at the house and every third week I stay here with them. That will give you time away to not have the responsibility of the house and kids and to do things you want to do. Its not fair for you to not have time away and me not to be with them.

She said I can�t live without them for a whole week, how can you for two. I got a little choked up here I�ve never been separated from them before. I told her I don�t know if I can but we all have cell phones we can call them when we are not here and if either they or one of us needs to see them then I have no problem with one of us picking them up during the week and taking them to dinner or whatever to be with them.

I would never deprive you of seeing your kids ever. This is not about them and I would never hurt you or them by doing that. Again this is just my thoughts you need to think of what you want out of this.

Lastly I said we will need to tell the kids. This is going to be the hardest thing either one of us will ever have to do. Told her, been there done that, fu**ing hated it when I was on their end and it sucks even more to be on this end of it. I debated this for a long time but if we did not have kids would you care if I left. She said no probably not. I like having you here and being with you but its been so long since��. (yea, yea)

We sort of slowly worked our way out of that conversation to watching tv to me starting to make dinner. She got on the computer to look up things and I went to pick up our D.

She did not sleep well last night and this morning and I could tell when I got up she had been thinking about it all night. She texed me this morning and said she got some books out of my night stand and my papers on trial separation. Hopefully she reads them and goes to IC but that are her issues and choices to make. I�ve made peace with my mistakes, faults and contributions to this failed M.

It was not pretty nor fun but I would not change a thing that I have done these past 3 years except to do them 5 years earlier.

That�s it in a nut shell. If you made it all the way here you must be tired of reading or gluttons for punishment.

Take care and thanks for reading, texting, calling and emailing to support me throughout all of this. You know who you are and I really appreciate every one of you.

Tim

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

but I would not change a thing that I have done these past 3 years except to do them 5 years earlier.

And that is what will let you sleep at night, trust me on this one
It is also what I hope everyone who is on this site can look back on their time here & say.

I wish you well my friend.
Godspeed & Peace
Bridge

I had breakfast with my mom this morning she was in for a meeting and wanted to talk to me about moving out. Amazing how perceptive she is. She said she knew my W and I were having problems several years ago because of how we interacted but the last couple of months or so we seemed to be doing so much better she figured we worked it out.

I told her the condensed version of the last 6-7 years of our marriage leading up to today. She did not need to know all the gory details but having gone through two failed marriages herself she understood exactly what I was saying.

She was more concerned how I was going to handle it. She did not want me to be bitter over this and hold a grudge for the next 30 years as my dad has done. I told her that 3 years ago I probably would have but I am so different now that I could never do that.

She of course like most people did not believe what an a** I was. I told her it was true. I was unhappy, I hated my job, my relationship with my w and I blamed her for everything. I know different now I also know that she is just as much at fault as I am so I don't take all the blame. We fed off each other till I broke the cycle. Now were now in another cycle and I need to do what is best for me and move out to give us both space to think.

I told her I was not doing this to make my W do something. I was doing it fo me. I thought about the other but its not the reason.

I want nothing but the best for my W and I trully do want her to be happy. Life is what it is and being misrable over this hurts noone but me and the kids. I will not do that to them. I hated having family get togethers with the tension so thick you could cut it with a knife.

Been there also done that won't do it.

Funny thing is she told me She felt better after talking with me. You would think it should be the other way around but I am doing ok right now. 28 days from now I may not be but I can deal with that in 28 days.

She also told me that she cares about my W. 22 years is a long time and thinks of her as a daughter and hopes that it's all right with me. She said the mom of my step dad was wonderful when they D and that is how she would be if ours came to that also.

She is the most amazing, wonderful person I ever met. Never giving out advice, there to listen, always understanding and never speaks badly about anybody even when one of her kids is hurt by them. She knows it's just life and things like this happen. I love her very much.

Quote:

I want nothing but the best for my W and I trully do want her to be happy. Life is what it is and being misrable over this hurts noone but me and the kids. I will not do that to them.

Is your wife unhappy? I know you've mentioned that she's not sure if she can get her feelings back for you, but has she told you she's unhappy?

You've mentioned that you feel like you're pressuring her. Has she ever said that?

I'm hearing sometimes that you have lots of conversations with yourself. She doesn't say anything, so you have to play a guessing game. I know you can't get blood from a stone, but until she speaks up, you can't know what she's thinking. I wouldn't assume anything. Go on what information she gives you - you're giving her an excuse not to express herself.

If I'm out of line, I apologize in advance.
WT

Yes she has told me that she is unhappy and does not know how to make herself happy or what will make her happy. And your right I can only go off what she says and that is very little. I gather my information over time compiling the little stuff that she does tell me.

She has not come out and said that I am pressuring her and maybe I am persuming that but none the less her feelings have not change. I don't see them changing in the forseeable future so either I choose to live in the same house this way or I choose to move out.

I need to reavaluate my feelings in all of this also and I feel moving out will give me a different prospective on our R. Plus I get frustrated living with someone that does not love me or want to be with me. I have lost patience with the current situation and its time to do want I need to do.

Your never out of line. Keep firing the questions it keeps me in line and helps me make sure I am doing things for the right reasons.

Tim

Originally Posted By: Bridgestone

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

but I would not change a thing that I have done these past 3 years except to do them 5 years earlier.

And that is what will let you sleep at night, trust me on this one
It is also what I hope everyone who is on this site can look back on their time here & say.

I wish you well my friend.
Godspeed & Peace
Bridge

Thanks Bridge,

I know I have done all I could to right this ship and I can look in the mirror and know I gave it everything I had.

Always a pleasure to hear from you.

Tim

A few more comments/questions about this post and I'll let it go. Promise.

Quote:

She said it was easier for me because we were in the same house.

I'm not sure I understand this.

Quote:

She said you never offered me any books.

So she hasn't been listening or really checked in. But I think you knew this - she's been doing what ever it takes to keep this neutral.

Quote:

She said I can�t live without them for a whole week, how can you for two.

Very powerful statement. And very judgemental on her part. And as much as I want to be brutally honest here, I just can't. But what I will say is I wish she would just be honest.

Quote:

I was thinking every other weekend I stay at the house and every third week I stay here with them. That will give you time away to not have the responsibility of the house and kids and to do things you want to do. Its not fair for you to not have time away and me not to be with them.

You're thinking for her. Laying this plan all out. Think about YOU and what YOU need. Yes think about the kids. But don't 'give her time away'. "It's not fair for you to not have time away". No the truth is "me not to be with them". Don't worry about what she needs or what you can give her. It's up to her to speak up.

I know you want to be kind, fair and for her to be happy. Please consider backing off a little. You're making all the decisions, laying out all the plans for both of you. I got no problem with you informing her of YOUR plans. She's choosen to input very little over the past year - what makes you think she'll step up to the plate now? As a last effort to save you both from separation? Believe me, I was hoping she would and still hold out hope. It may not be before you leave, but I'm hoping this separation will wake her ass up. And then I have that thought in the back of my mind that thinks she may like this just fine. Not much is going to change for her, really....

I worry about being to harsh here. I want to support you, but I worry.

WT

well hell..I'm not bashfull...I'll be the harsh one..

Tim-stop making this easy for her...a separation should not be easy for her..if anything it should light a fire under her ass...you should not have to do all the work..you should not have to list all the pros and cons..you should not take all the responsibility or accountability...

and

letting her take care of some things and stand on her own two feet..does not mean you need to go back to be an ass..

sometimes I think this site does more harm than good....

she needs to put her big girl panties on..

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

well hell..I'm not bashfull...

really? Damn.. just blew my virtual image of you..

Originally Posted By: distressed67

letting her take care of some things and stand on her own two feet..does not mean you need to go back to be an ass..

agreed..

in fact.. you being 'all good' while she is learning to find a 'new normal' of standing on her own two feet might be the impetus she needs to reevaulate those 'dead feelings'.

so go be 'all good'- not as Tim- Mrs. Tim's new & improved husband, provider & protector. you've shown her that..

show her confident, GAL'ing, moving foward as Tim a single dad, show her that.. 'be' that.

and please reconsider only have the kids minimal time. She needs to understand.. truly understand the emptiness of a house without the presence of family, for extended periods of time.

Peace
Bridge

Tim:
Something Lodo posted to me when I was making hard choices this time last year.

Maybe it will speak to you..

The Journey by mary oliver

One day you finally knew
what you had to do, and began,
though the voices around you
kept shouting
their bad advice--
though the whole house
began to tremble
and you felt the old tug
at your ankles.
"Mend my life!"
each voice cried.
But you didn't stop.
You knew what you had to do,
though the wind pried
with its stiff fingers
at the very foundations,
though their melancholy
was terrible.
It was already late
enough, and a wild night,
and the road full of fallen
branches and stones.
But little by little,
as you left their voices behind,
the stars began to burn
through the sheets of clouds,
and there was a new voice
which you slowly
recognized as your own,
that kept you company
as you strode deeper and deeper
into the world,
determined to do
the only thing you could do--
determined to save
the only life you could save.

The ball is now in her court Mike. I had to get the ball rolling because I knew she would just sit back and allow the days to pass without doing anything. By me initiating this process it has forced her to start thinking about the trial separation and hopefully add to the agreement that I started. I need her input so we can have a working agreement before I move out.

As I stated I don�t think she thought I was serious. Our talk on Sunday was an eye opener for her. What she does from here is not my concern I hope that she seeks help for her issues and continues to read the books she took from my night stand but I cannot make her do any of that.

I plan on talking to her again this weekend about the separation agreement. And Bridge I understand what you are saying about time with the kids and her dealing with an empty house but I must think of their best interest in this aspect. Unfortunately there is only two of us in this office to make it run and getting in late to get the kids off to school and home early to get them dinner, help with homework and off to sports every other week I don�t think will be feasible. I already talked to my partner that every 3rd week will require some adjustment to get the work done so I can take care of the kids. I may change my mind plus I plan on seeing them atleast once or twice each week that I am not there.

WT,
I understand what you are saying. I did tell her that I had to see the kids and spend time with them I just missed that in my post. And I don�t know how to get her to step up to the plate. This needs to get done and again if I don�t start it and push it nothing will happen. I hope as you do that she will wake up but right now I cannot wait for that. I plan on moving out the end of this month so time is of the essence.

Also don�t worry about being harsh I need that to stop being overprotective and trying to make it easier on her. Its my nature so bear with me on this.

Tim

ps. Thanks for the poem Bridge I need to read it a couple of time but I get your meaning.

Ok, a couple of questions:

1) Communications we text each other everyday now to ask about each others days or if she is bored she text me whatever. Do I continue this after I move out or let her initiate all communications?

2) We have been meeting for lunch about once every two to three weeks do I keep this up?

3) What about problems at the house do I go over and handle it or tell her to deal with it and I will check it out when I have my weekend/week at the house.

I know anything with the kids gets dealt with right away but its the other incidentals I'm talking about.

There are some fine lines here so those of you that have done this hopefully can give me some pointers. I want to continue to be the great guy I am but I don't want to be her push over either. Also if you know of some other pit falls that would be helpful also.

Tim

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

Ok, a couple of questions:

1) Communications we text each other everyday now to ask about each others days or if she is bored she text me whatever. Do I continue this after I move out or let her initiate all communications?

2) We have been meeting for lunch about once every two to three weeks do I keep this up?

3) What about problems at the house do I go over and handle it or tell her to deal with it and I will check it out when I have my weekend/week at the house.

I know anything with the kids gets dealt with right away but its the other incidentals I'm talking about.

There are some fine lines here so those of you that have done this hopefully can give me some pointers. I want to continue to be the great guy I am but I don't want to be her push over either. Also if you know of some other pit falls that would be helpful also.

Tim

You're getting ahead of yourself. You're not even out the door yet, dear friend. All of these things will depend on how you feel once you walk out the door. How she reacts once you walk out the door.

This action (leaving) is significant. Please do not treat it like nothing has changed. Much will change.

What you've been doing isn't working, or you wouldn't be moving out. I'm not saying you should discontinue contact. But, it's going to be different and it's hard to see right now.

Be open to communication, but not obligated. Without a formal separation agreement, you are still married - therefore anything she does affects you and you her. So upkeep of the house is in both your best interests. Issues with the kids you may want to handle on a case by case basis.

You do need to set boundaries. One thing I've learned from reading your posts is you've been carrying her across puddles for a long time. Stop it. You're over thinking this. Stop it. Let go. It's your choice, it's a good choice for you and you will be fine.

WT

Quote:

One thing I've learned from reading your posts is you've been carrying her across puddles for a long time. Stop it. You're over thinking this. Stop it. Let go. It's your choice, it's a good choice for you and you will be fine

I like the harsher WT

Men(including myself) have to be so damn detail oriented..we have to have a plan in place before we can take a crap..

and that sometimes comes across as controlling..cause we damn sure can't verbalize what we are thinking..

so..my suggestion...don't have a plan(for her) or for the unimportant things...

flying by the seat of your pants can free your mind sometimes..I went from detail oriented with everything to finally figuring out that if I'm 10 minutes late for church that they don't kick you out, lock the doors or stare at you..

bottom line Tim...you're dealing with a woman(no offense ladies)and they are not wired to "detailed plans" of men..

I'd go with it..I'd decide what you want and need..and that's what you should do..

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Quote:

One thing I've learned from reading your posts is you've been carrying her across puddles for a long time. Stop it. You're over thinking this. Stop it. Let go. It's your choice, it's a good choice for you and you will be fine

I like the harsher WT

Yea me too, I think.

Thanks WT I needed to hear that. Keep beating me with that stick it will get through someday. And yes it is the right choice for me at this time, it needs to be done for my own peace of mind.

Quote:

I like the harsher WT

Quote:

flying by the seat of your pants can free your mind sometimes

And a sign of confidence within yourself. Amid the confusion, it's hard to feel stable - but sometimes you gotta trust - blind faith. You'll know what battles to fight. And if you don't, you'll post here and MFT and I will tell you.

No offense taken regarding dealing with women - we don't get into too much detail - it's wasted brain time 'cause we just might change our mind.

Tim, you got a support system. You're going to be snowed in the whole weekend, clear your mind.

The beatings await you - you know where to find us.
WT

Originally Posted By: M from Tennessee

Quote:

One thing I've learned from reading your posts is you've been carrying her across puddles for a long time. Stop it. You're over thinking this. Stop it. Let go. It's your choice, it's a good choice for you and you will be fine

I like the harsher WT

Men(including myself) have to be so damn detail oriented..we have to have a plan in place before we can take a crap..

and that sometimes comes across as controlling..cause we damn sure can't verbalize what we are thinking..

so..my suggestion...don't have a plan(for her) or for the unimportant things...

flying by the seat of your pants can free your mind sometimes..I went from detail oriented with everything to finally figuring out that if I'm 10 minutes late for church that they don't kick you out, lock the doors or stare at you..

bottom line Tim...you're dealing with a woman(no offense ladies)and they are not wired to "detailed plans" of men..

I'd go with it..I'd decide what you want and need..and that's what you should do..

Flying by the seat of my pants is not what I do very well. I think, I plan and then I do. Another thing I need to work on. Good thing I have some time alone coming up to do that.

Hey Tim,

just because I say I fly by the seat of my pants does not mean it does not get to me sometimes..as a matter of fact it still bothers me on occasion...it still pisses me off on occasion..hell i'm a man..I'm wired that way..

I've learned not to sweat the small stuff and you are going to run into a lot of unimportant stuff through all this...but when you first run into it, or hear it from her, it will look really big..really important...you'll look back on it after a time and decide, "well, that was not as important as i thought"
I've learned alot about being around all the Estrogen I'm around

...sometimes you just have to go with it..sometimes it does not go as planned...sometimes you just have to let it go..

and the best part of all that..... you still get to keep your pecker.

.your still a good man..

.and sometimes that makes you even more of a man than the average "joe"

Quote:

and the best part of all that..... you still get to keep your pecker. .your still a good man.. .and sometimes that makes you even more of a man than the average "joe"

Agreed!

Originally Posted By: Distressed67

Ok, a couple of questions:

1) Communications we text each other everyday now to ask about each others days or if she is bored she text me whatever. Do I continue this after I move out or let her initiate all communications?

how's that been working for you??

Originally Posted By: distressed67

2) We have been meeting for lunch about once every two to three weeks do I keep this up?

how's that been working for you??

quit chasing cheeseless tunnels

Originally Posted By: distressed

3) What about problems at the house do I go over and handle it or tell her to deal with it and I will check it out when I have my weekend/week at the house.

if it's a request that she has & it is not immediately affecting the value of the house (it is burning down or the toilet is running water all over the floor) get to it on your timeline WHEN IT"s GOOD for YOU. Let her miss you and learn to deal with a "tim-less" life.

You said in a later post that it would be difficult to have the kids more...because of only 2 of you in the office.
I think this is where I would concentrate my time & energy... find ANYWAY you can to juggle both so it is as close to 50/50 split as you can make it.

I have no doubt it will be hard & hard choices will have to be made between work, kids, possibly hiring a sitter/nanny for a few hours a week, but show her YOU CAN DO IT WITHOUT HER.

If you are texting her, taking her to lunch, fixing things at the house, she gets the kids 75% of the time.... what is she missing & how are things changing other than she now has more closet & bathroom counter space?

If you are leaving & separating.. then do it. One thing I wish I would have done sooner, was really 'left' him instead of taking pity on him & my co-depednecy kicking in and 'taking care' of things even from 20 miles away.

It's just within the past 4 months I've seen him heard him finally 'understand the consequences of both his actions & inactions'.

You can plan things out to the n-th degree (I do, I have, I will continue to.. it's not just a guy thing)

I've come to realize that 90% of what I worry about wouldn't have happened anyways.. despite my planning.. I am deluding myself that 'planning' makes good things happen & keeps bad things from happening. The ONLY thing I can control is me.

As WT said.. you have the support system... this separation is a hard, and sad choice to make on one hand...

on the other you are saving yourself, that is a celebration.
Frame your thoughts about it as you need to... feelings & actions will follow.

Peace
Bridge

Good Morning,

So I went back in the archives to find your thread and know where I found it? I didn't. It's been SO LONG since you updated that you fell off the archives.

How are you?

WT

WT,

I don't come here very often anymore. Things are still heading towards seperation. My W is still dragging her feet but I think I have finally got it through her head that we need to get this done. She told me this weekend that she saw an IC but of course did not like her. The IC told her she needs to talk about her feelings and get it out in the open. Until she does she will never be able to deal with her issues.

My W is reluctant to do that. I feel bad for her on that end because she will never be happy nor figure out what she wants until she does.

She also told me that she just cannot open back up to me and let me in. I told her "I know that. I know you keep me at a distance but I just can't continue to live here with you and still be all alone."

I am heading to Vegas Thursday morning with my brothers and cousins and I told her we need to get this resolved when I get back. We need to inform the kids and I need to move out.

She told me she is scared. Unfortunatley I cannot do anything about that. I have done all that I could for the last 2 years to prevent this. I am burned out and tired. I just wish that two innocent lives were not involved. That really breaks my heart.

Thats it in a nutshell. I need the vacation and time to talk to my two brothers to let them know what is happening. Not sure when I will tell my sister and dad but plenty of time to deal with that later.

Thanks for checking in on me.

Tim