I am afraid that my first thread is about to lock up so I guess I will start a new one.
Here is a link to my first thread
First Thread Update:
This weekend has been pretty good. W is gone to KC with kids and her parents and they seem to be having a good time. I have talked and texted her some and we were both pleasant. I went to see my Hogs beat Florida in baseball yesterday and had a great time there. Spent the rest of the day just hanging out at home and alternating between looking at this site, reading, playing PS3 and watching a movie. Today, I woke up and went to church. This is a big deal for me, as I would have NEVER gotten up on my own and gone to church by myself. Sad I know, but true. W called me while I was there about 15 minutes before service started and I think she was surprised that I was there. Spent the rest of the day just hanging out again, then went home and my BIL and SIL were there (live next door) so BIL and I ended up playing ping pong for a while until I left and went to play basketball with a bunch of friends. I think that I did a great job of GAL this weekend. Also, I think I have done well with the not pursuing but being loving and nice when she called or texted. Hopefully this is a start to a good week.
I started my Celexa and hopefully this will also start to take the edge off. Everytime I feel myself getting anxious and/or mad I just tell myself "STOP!" And then I try to think of something else. It is working right now. Everyone, please stay with me!
LonelyRzr
LonelyRzr
Just caught drift of your sitch...
25years has given some great pointers to you...not least:-
"If I knew I wanted to work on the M, I'd spare myself that pain and work on ME"
I've been there - 2 years ago...i have no advice - merely reflections on what i wish I had done...
I would have not have snooped - or if I had I would have challenged straight away
I would have acted As If!!!
I would have sorted out a whole load of 180s
I would have looked into the concept of "love busters" via marriagebuilders
This is a really difficult thing to deal with...your anger is "nothing" its not productive - clearly its not...it doesn't have to be part of you - in the same was as procrastination doesn't have to be part of me!!!
What do you achieve by being angry? For me procrastination was a form of control i think..."I just need to think about that"
Anger I think may be an extreme expression of that - perhaps you can offer something more?
But - hey LonelyRzr - things could be ok...
And you know what - you have found the best place!
As i'm sure you realise - GFI
GFI,
Thanks for posting in my last thread!
I do want to work on my marriage. Its the most important thing to me in my life. And I know that I need to quit snooping, and hopefully I will stop that from now on, but there are no guarantees
I am trying like heck to act "as if" and GAL and 180's
I need to check out "love busters" and also check out marriagebuilders.
I also know the anger does nothing productive and I am trying to stop it and I have done a pretty good job this weekend.
I will keep it up and thanks again for stopping by and giving me your words of encouragement.
LonelyRzr
Small Update:
Just waiting on my kids to get home from KC. I really miss them and should be going over there in a bit. I will be good, loving, and detached from W while there. Wish me luck.
25,
But if you think that there's a chance you'd want to work things out with her, then why? Why put yourself through that, when in fact she might be working her way back to you? Why torture yourself...or is it so you can hold it over her head the rest of her life? ASK YOURSELF what your motives are and what you'll do with the information you get. And how much energy you want to spend on constantly obsessing and speculating and suspecting, instead of working on the M itself, or you.
You are exactly right. I know I would/will work on anything to get her back even if she had a PA. So, that being said, I have to quit snooping and I will. It really isn't worth it. I wish I didn't know what I do already, but the good is that its out in the open and she can't continue it. I am starting to get it and will continue to do so.
LZR,
glad you are making real progress. When my dad died suddenly, some years ago, I started an AD after about 6 weeks of just not getting any better. You know, lots of "What if's?" that were driving me crazy and my thoughts would go around in the loop without taking the exit ramp, so to speak. So I said yes to the AD's. But I kid you not, out of nowhere, in 48-72 hours I felt a difference. That fast for me! Not huge, at first, but noticeable. Then 2 weeks later as I was driving to work I recall singing out loud or tapping on the wheel to a song on the radio, and I suddenly thought "wth? I'm feeling better!!" So yeah, it was a friggin' miracle. Also had some sleep aids for awhile. So for short term (or long??) I am a huge believer in them. Why'd I go see a doc for this? The trigger point for me was my d4 seeing me sad and h telling her I would not be reading to them that night, again, b/c I was sad. Then my sweet loving 4 y/o asked me, "Are you going to be sad all the days?" She wasn't complaining, she just wanted to know...OUCH!! so that day I made an appointment b/c no way was I going to show my kids that sadness is forever. Someday they'll face our demise and we have to show them you do go on. (Same for this sitch!!)
Lots of hopeful signs in your situation. As you have heard, we don't know what things your wife will need to wake up, or feel the same or "get it'. or come back, etc. But We often know what will NOT work though. And you are really getting somewhere with those tasks and not doing them, so now your focus will be to figure out what does work, WHEN the time comes....the time for monitoring results is clearly not here yet. But it will be in a few months. Try maybe 90 days?
So you're GAL, and being upbeat but not pursuing, doing some 180s, ALL great goals to do and achieve. This is a good week I think. (Oh, sometimes good weeks are not all smooth, but you'll know the diff.)
She'll need some real time to trust these changes. Give that to her and you. Keep the stop signs going in your head when you need to, ask your doc for anti-anxiety stuff or sleep stuff if that keeps you from wailing or hitting on "OM" (can I call him the "?O?M?" instead b/c honestly, I CAN actually imagine them having an R without anything really physical. A kiss? Maybe, sure. But if she says nothing physical AND he says that too, AND they aren't parading around or professing their love, etc. then it is possible you got there in time....so let it go. Let God handle that, while you handle you.
Take care and keep us posted!
(( j ))
25,
Once again, you say the right things to keep me grounded and keep on track. I know this is out of my hands and I have handed it all to God and asked him to carry the load so I can work on me.
Update:
Didn't end up going home last night. S was carsick from ride home and D went to eat with IL's. W called me at 8:45 and said S was feeling better but D wasn't home yet so I told her that I would just come by tomorrow after work. I think she sounded kind of disappointed and I said that it was getting too late and not sure when D would be home so I will come after work and spend the whole night with the kids. W's birthday is Saturday and I will take the kids out tonight to pick out bday present and cards for her from them. I already got her something but not sure if I will give it to her. What are your thoughts on this? I normally get her something nice (which I did this time) and get her 2 cards, one romantic that I add to with words of my own and one sexy and fun. I am not sure that I will get a card this year, again thoughts? And this is not a revenge thing or back at ya, but she didn't get me a card for Christmas, my bday, or vday and I gave her 2 for each (not my bday
Anyway, still going strong and going to make this week good, day by day!
LonelyRzr
Lonely,
You are really rocking this out. I am so proud of you. I'm so glad one of us isn't having massive backslides!
As for the gift.....that is tricky. I would give her the gift as is. Make it not a big deal "Hope you like it, if not, you can return it, I promise, no hurt feelings." And then, get her the perfect friend card, find one you would give to your female cousin. And then when you get back together, for her next birthday you can give her the other cards and even let her know when you bought them. That's going to be an awesome story.
Your weekend sounded awesome actually. Good you time.
Still,
Im not sure how much I am rocking it out, but I am trying. You keep up your PMA and hang in there. I keep going back and forth on the gift and cards. I know for sure though that I am not giving the romantic and sexy cards. Thanks for your input on it and I will continue to think this through. A lot of time until Saturday. Hopefully tonight will be a good night. W has texted me a couple of times and been really nice and thoughtful asking how may night was and hoping I had a great day and I returned the wishes. Time to get back to actual work
Update:
Well I backslid a little bit, but not too bad as we had a decent discussion about sex
I told her that I know I should say this but I wanted to really bad and that surely she was thinking of it too since its been 4 months. She said she didn't want to hurt me but couldn't do it right now and hoped I understood. I told her that I did and wasn't hurt or mad and that I should not have said that. She told me that I shouldn't be sorry and it was ok I said it and that she even liked knowing it but right now it wasn't right. I told her that I appreciated her talking straight with me about it and I understood and also really appreciated how nice she has been to me since Friday.
We then lightened everything up and started talking about a tooth implant she is having soon. Anyway, I did backslide, but it wasn't me going into temper tantrum mode like I have been known to do in the past. She even texted me afterward and thanked me for being nice about it and not blowing up. So maybe I earned some points
who knows.
Going to the house tonight to be with the kids and maybe her to. I have to remember to be nice, loving, and detach!
Yeah!! I don't know that it was an official back slide, at least not like I've been having lately.
I think it was a legitimate question and she should be happy you asked her and didn't go to some bar to pick up some random person.
And it also sounded like she did appreciate you asking and not just trying to entice her physically, like "Hey Chick-e-ba-bee!"
I hate the dentist.
Tonight be nice and completely not upset that she's not quite ready for the lovin'. You are rocking it out.
Neither one of you is ready, truth be told. It would confuse the heck out of you and you'd obssess about it endlessly, if you're really honest with yourself.
But It is a MAJOR dilemma for most of us in this process. When h would visit, if he slept in the guest room the kids would notice and comment to me in private. If not, who knows what they thought? And just b/c we shared a bed...anyhow, it's a dicey personal thing. I got some good DB coach advice (& highly recommend getting it for you) and remembered that for me and my sitch, I felt that I'd do what came naturally, as long as I felt I could handle it. Meaning, I would not if I suspected that later on I'd feel used, etc. Besides, h was gone a lot and there was no ow, so it's not as if he came and went as he pleased. But since she is the semi-WAS with mixed feelings, it's your heart that is most at risk.
One well meaning friend told me "NO way!! How can you?? I would never let myself get used that way...blah blah blah"--- but that particular friend had issues of her own. She and her h had not slept together in YEARS so I was not about to listen to that Expert, you know?
DB coach said "Do what feels natural, loving AND that you can handle..."
I thought it was something we were "good at" and it brought us closer and the more distance you get from there, the harder it is to recall. And I wondered if any man returned to a woman b/c of the great sex they NEVER had...
But it is a very personal issue. I say you aren't ready b/c of the confusion I think it would create in you. Could be wrong. If you confined its' meaning, who knows?
Your "backslide" has one advantage, which is that she knows you desire her. Every woman wants to know that. Not in a vulgar "anyone would do , but since you're in front of me..." but that you want her, specifically, and no one else.
Someday that may need to change so that she fears losing you, etc. (Meaning if you have to go dark, etc) But for now, aren't your changes mainly aimed at demonstrating your loving nature and romantic side and the less critical parts of you? I ask this b/c it's easy to confuse other posters here with those who overly pursue, and or those who had drinking as their issue, or tempers...and as I recall, you have some temper/critical/jealous/impatience issues to combat, correct? So, if that's accurate, then maybe it wasn't such a backslide anyhow b/c of the follow up comments you made.
Make sense? As for the gifts, since she'll know the "kid's gifts" came from you anyhow, why make it so hard and complicated? I mean, she WILL know it's really from you, correct? So Make at least one gift a nice personal one, like jewelry or perfume she likes (Only perfume SHE likes, not just any, and same goes for jewelry, ). As for the card, sign the kids card with a nice note about the coming year being one of "growth, learning," or that you hope she finds peace and joy in her life and that she knows she's valued and loved by her famly...I'm throwing this out and I'm feeling pretty good about it LZR, but have others say their thoughts and figure out what seems natural. I KNOW I would not go overboard but let me ask you this:
What would your wife tell a stranger is happening in your m right now?
Would she say you are separated? Trial sep? Taking a time out? Aiming for div? What do you think she would call it, not what you hope, but what realistically is her description of this situation?
That will tell us a lot about how to proceed.
Good luck,
(( j ))
I got so many mixed messages from friends I recall one frid
25,
Neither one of you is ready, truth be told. It would confuse the heck out of you and you'd obssess about it endlessly, if you're really honest with yourself.
You are probably right about that. I know she isn't and knowing me, I would obsess about it.
Your "backslide" has one advantage, which is that she knows you desire her. Every woman wants to know that. Not in a vulgar "anyone would do , but since you're in front of me..." but that you want her, specifically, and no one else.
I knows that she knows I want her and only her. That has NEVER been a question in our M. I'm not sure why I let that come out, but I did and I actually am glad that I did. I do want her to know that even after everything, I still love her and want only her.
and as I recall, you have some temper/critical/jealous/impatience issues to combat, correct? So, if that's accurate, then maybe it wasn't such a backslide anyhow b/c of the follow up comments you made.
Your recollection is correct. I did and still do have temper/jealous(now)/impatience issues but am working on them and doing better in all phases. I do think that me not blowing up and acting like a child who didn't get what they wanted was a good thing for her to see. Afterall, she has said numerous times including to our MC that I say I am changing but my actions don't reflect it. I think that I did more good in her eyes with this small little thing than I have in months.
Make sense? As for the gifts, since she'll know the "kid's gifts" came from you anyhow, why make it so hard and complicated? I mean, she WILL know it's really from you, correct? So Make at least one gift a nice personal one, like jewelry or perfume she likes (Only perfume SHE likes, not just any, and same goes for jewelry, ). As for the card, sign the kids card with a nice note about the coming year being one of "growth, learning," or that you hope she finds peace and joy in her life and that she knows she's valued and loved by her famly...I'm throwing this out and I'm feeling pretty good about it LZR, but have others say their thoughts and figure out what seems natural.
Thanks for the advice on the gifts and card. I will definitely do the card with a note. Nothing romantic.
What would your wife tell a stranger is happening in your m right now?
Would she say you are separated? Trial sep? Taking a time out? Aiming for div? What do you think she would call it, not what you hope, but what realistically is her description of this situation?
I really do believe that she would say we are going through a difficult time in our marriage and trying to deal with our problems. I do not think she would say we are seperated or aiming for D. I may be wrong, but I honestly do not believe that. I think that she would be acting a lot different if she was really going to go forward with a D. I think she is confused and that it is very difficult for her. I also still think she may miss what OM was giving to her emotionally but I do think that is over now. I think it will take time for her to come back to me, but if I make the changes necessary for me to be more calm, easy going, less anger, less temper, more of a leader in the family, then she will come back. I have to be patient and take my time to do this for myself regardless, but I do think she will come around if I don't continue to push her out the door.
Anyway, thanks for continuing to help me.
Another little update. She just texted me and asked if I wanted to eat dinner at home with her instead of me just taking the kids out to dinner. She is grilling hotdogs and making rotel. Sounds good and weather here is gorgeous. 76 and sunny. Can't wait to get home!!
LonelyRzr
well YAY!...take it easy and slow. I don't think anyone here has failed at reconciling for that, but God knows they do for taking it too fast.
180's + time...= change she can believe in...
(( j ))
Well tonight was mixed. She did invite me home for dinner which I accepted. I got home and she was in the bathroom talking to her sister. My SIL told me Sunday that she watched Fireproof and asked if I had seen it and I told her yes and that I thought it was really good but wasn't sure if W would watch it with me or even if it was good to do right now. Anyway, I overheard W asking questions about movie when I walked in and I know SIL was asking her to watch it with me. Kids attacked me and wanted me to come outside to put on a dance for me that they had been practicing. So I went outside and watch their performance and then W started getting dinner ready. I went in and asked if I could help and everything was light and easy.
Then she said that she needed to ask me something but didn't want to make me mad. I said you can ask me anything and she said well maybe not mad but hurt your feelings. I said to just tell me and she said that she really wanted to go out and shop instead of hanging with us because she had been with the kids since Friday and needed a break. I was disappointed inside, but I totally understand where she was coming from and went over to her and touched her shoulder and told her that it was ok that she went out and I understand where she needed a break and take all the time she needed. The kids and I would have a great time. Also told her that she doesn't need to worry about hurting my feelings or whatever and that I will be just fine. Hopefully I handled that right and we went on to have a good dinner and then watched the kids do a couple of more dances for us.
She left and kids and I rode bikes, played bball, went to get smoothies and watched AI before bed. W got home and was nice but still a little distant. I put D to bed and then went down to kiss S goodnight and told W bye and I had fun with them tonight and would do again soon.
I guess I wanted to do something more as a family tonight but I understand she needed a break and was more than willing to accommodate that. I know I need to take it slow and will do so, but sometimes I get anxious. But no harm done tonight, I was nice, calm, loving and thats all I can be.
Like you said -
180's + time...= change she can believe in...
Handled like a true champion of DBing. And it sounds like you had a blast with the kids. I bet the dances were perfect.
Thanks Still,
I am having a hard time today. Can't get her out of my head. Just sitting at my desk at work doing nothing. This is a hard day for some reason. Texted back and forth a bit with W about our homework from MC and needed to get it done before next appt (30th). I don't know what's going on, but really down today and can't snap out. Someone hit me with a 2x4 to wake me up or something.
Hey LR,
Must be something in the air then because I am feeling your pain and angst too today. I'm going dark, or as dark as I can since we have a child together.
I've been letting things into my brain that I need to shut out.
So this is what we are going to do. We are going to snap out of it together.
I want you to tell me about an event in your life....anything you want....but I would prefer fun or silly or stupid or embarassing.
Here's mine:
I was in college.
It's an ironic story really.
I was the designated driver that Thursday evening and it was pretty cold where I went to school. (At my college the Greek system set up dd's for every Thursday-Saturday night. We would all be on a rotation and had to stay sober that night, next to a phone to pick up the drunkards as they called to get home safely)
I went out to pick up some of my sisters, and they were annoying drunks, not fun ones, not mean ones, not cute, just ANNOYING.
As we were on the last stretch of the trip back to the house, I was yelling at one of them not to puke in the car, which was not mine.
I'm looking over my shoulder and COMPLETELY miss a sharp turn into Greek row. The drunk sister in the front seat is actually coherent enough to say "Oh bleep, this is going to be an awesome story...." At that point, I am turning my head back around....but it's alreayd too late. My heart drops and I miss the turn, hit a small hill that launches the car into the air.
I estimate we were airborne for at least 5 seconds. In my horrified-I'm-going-to-kill-these-people-that-I-actually-really-like-state of mind it felt like we were in the air for at least five minutes.
Of course the drunks are either laughing or semi sleeping.
Fortunately, we hit the ground and even though it was grass it sounded like we hit concrete. The car was old enough to not have air bags, which was probably a good thing because I have to believe they would have deployed.
I was so shaken up, I couldn't move. The sister in the front seat got out, screaming "Did you see that??? Did you bleeping see that??? That was bleeping awesome!!!" That's about when I noticed a huge crowd of fraternity guys outside of their house drinking and cheering.
I was so happy to be alive, I didnt' bother to be embarassed.
But from that point on I was called Fly-Girl.
I was also taken off the rotation.
No one was hurt amazingly. Just me with some bruises.
The university wanted to know who had been driving on the grass. I left some HUGE divets in the grass.
There was a reward offered for $50.
Not one person turned me in.
alright, give me something....
Still,
That was funny, you guys are lucky you didn't get hurt or least in trouble by the university
I have one from back in high school. I was on vacation in bahamas and we did a day pass to club med. We spent the day swimming, playing games and then decided at last minute to stay for dinner. I had to run back to the boat and get a change of clothes for me and 4 girls and makeup, hair stuff, ect. I remembered everything to the last detail, except for underwear for me
Everyone is making fun of me once I let them in on my mistake.
So I realize it after shower and can't go back to the boat to get some so I go free
and we have a nice dinner and after dinner they have a game of musical chairs for a nice bottle of champagne. So everyone finally talks me into playing and at first I didn't want to be there, but once the game started my competitive juices started flowing and I was going to win!
It got down to one chair and me and a 30ish german guy and we are walking around the chair when the music stops I am about to sit in it and the dude yanks the chair out from under me and I fall. I was extremely embarrassed and stood up and felt my left pinky feel weird so I look down at it and the top joint was sticking out to the left. I think oh crap and then turn over my hand and the rest of the bone was sticking out of the bottom. I just about passed out seeing that and my gf (now my W) ran over to me and sees the bone and blood and FREAKS out.
Anyway, now getting to the funny part. Ambulance comes and this really pretty nurse is taking care of me and says that she has to give me a shot in the rear. They have already bandaged up my finger and stabilized it and I start to unzip my shorts and she grabs them and says she will help
I push her hand away and do it myself and pull down my pants a little for the shot. She was probably thinking I was some perve. Everyone was rolling with laughter as they witnessed the whole thing and my expression when she grabbed my pants.
LMAO!!
For a second there, I didn't think you understood what we are doing here! Sorry about your finger!! What did the German guy say/do? That's the most competitve game of musical chairs I've ever heard of!
I went to a different university my freshman year out of state and then transfer to an in state school. Mainly because of financial reasons and partly because of this story.
I met a girl freshman year from Jersey. Total Jersey girl with the accent, cigarettes and hair spray. LOVED HER. One day I get back to the dorm from class and she's got two pair of roller blades. One pair for her chain smoking butt and the other for me of course.
Keep in mind, I've only seen these things, these roller blades. She's been skating on them all of her life with her older brother who loved ice hockey and roller blading.
We go out. I'm a complete mess. And I have no helmet, no pads, nothing protective at all.
All is going ok, then we find a small hill. Before I know it, I get on this small hill and I'm gaining speed. She starts yelling Slow Down! Watch Out! I'm just trying to keep my balance, arms going crazy.
I see some grass (at this point she's cackling like a witch and I sort of hate her) and I think "That will slow me down!" I veer toward it.
I hit the grass.
Three feet into the grass, I hit a chain link fence.
It makes this amazing BOING noise.
I hit the grass.
I hear amazingly loud laughter. I look up and I realize I've hit the fence that surrounds the sports fields. There are TONS of guys (and at that moment, in my complete mortification all of them are gorgeous) bent over, pointing, laughing. One finally comes over and with a country twang, "Are you all right?" Of course he says this between laughing. I said Yes. Thanks.
At this point my friend gets there. She helps me up and looks at me. Then she and this guy I don't know start laughing harder. She laughed so hard back to the dorms she couldn't tell me what was so funny, but it was me she was laughing at. I became very concerned as people were staring at us. Or me I should say. I had taken off the stupid roller blades and walked back to our dorm.
I finally get to a mirror and see.
I had chain link fence shaped marking all across my face. Eventually, across my forehead and part of the right side of my fence, a chain link fence shaped bruise developed for about two days.
I will never forget the sound that fence made when I hit it. Even I laugh about that.
That fence story is one of the funniest things I have heard in a while. I am sorry for you, but to have the fence markings on your forehead is funny
I ended up get 7 stitches in the pinky and had to goto the hospital in Nassau and had a foreign doctor that pointed at pinky and touched it in different places and just said "hurt?" I knew I was in trouble
The rest of the trip was ruined for me because I couldn't swim or fish or anything because I couldn't get the finger wet.
The german guy was a big jerk (was drunk), never said he was sorry and his gf or w ended up giving us the bird. But we did get the bottle of champaign but I wasn't old enough to partake in any of it
WOW, I just had a weird experience. I sent my MIL a text earlier asking if I could help with W's party on Sat and also told her that I hoped mess with M didn't hurt our R. Never received anything but their car pulls up and FIL comes into office and asks if I have a min to come out and sit in car with them.
I went out there and we talked for about an hour about everything. They went into the OM thing and how they overreacted a bit on her but they are over it now and don't think things were as bad as they were lead to believe? Not sure if that was a jab at me or not, but oh well. They went on to talk about how they have enabled us by giving us the $$ they have and that would stop. I said that it was ok and I was fine with that. They also said they were pissed and were holding it against me when I left to go to Dallas a few weeks ago and that they had to watch the kids while SIL was planning a big baby shower with W and it was a bad weekend for me to up and leave. They also said they are pissed that I am going to FL next week and didn't take my kids on a spring break vacation. I get that part, I dropped the ball by not planning something with them, but it would have had to be just the 3 of us due to my sitch right now. I owned that with them and said I was probably being selfish about the FL trip. He also said that he at one time had a problem with me telling them I was doing everything in my power to make the M work or repair it and I wasn't at the time going to IC or MC. I told him that I am now going to both and that I WAS doing everything to make this work. He acknowledged that now and said that he realizes that W isn't trying at this time but he was hopeful she would. I told him that I was also hopeful and that I would never give up and I would never abandon her or the kids. They did say that it was very difficult for them to know what to do and how to walk the fine line of helping/coaching and meddling. I sat there and was very respectful, compassionate, validating, ect. Geesh, I felt like I was having to be how I need to be with W
Anyway, this was weird but it ended good. They care, but they are too involved. Maybe it is best that they are taking things from us, this way if we end up reconciling, we can do this on our own and not worry about them.
Weird, terrible day. The only good today has been the stories you have told me Still. Thanks for that!
Man, W is still pulling me along on this roller coaster and I guess that I am willing to ride it. I know not too, but I can't seem to stop it to get off. Today she is in a bad mood. Today went from bad to worse. I am miserable today. I realized that I forgot to take my celexa this morning, not sure if that has to do with my mood or not. Anyway, I texted W to see if I could take her and the kids out to dinner tomorrow night for her birthday. She sent back "um, yeah i guess". I responded upbeat and said good, I will plan it. Later she called and asked if I just wanted to do it tonight and I already had plans so I said no tomorrow would be better. I then asked if she already had plans tomorrow and said no, but I don't have to take her as she doesn't care either way. This pissed me off, but I didn't act like it and just said that we didn't have to go if she didn't want to. Then told her I would talk to her later about it and said bye. I then texted her and said that I was sorry, but just trying to do something nice for her birthday but that she didn't sound too thrilled about it. She responded saying again that it doesn't matter to her if we go or not, she wouldn't be mad if we didn't but would love to go.
I am going to take it at face value and plan the evening tomorrow night with her and the kids. I just wish she would figure this out and quit being so up and down. This is killing me. I need to regroup and just go to bed and end this day!!!!!
Well you handled that GREAT!!
And I was told recently--a very very good piece of advice--do NOT give them a negative option.
My H pissed me off Saturday when he came home all weird after an amazing few days before, including a great Saturday morning when he left to go play golf. He came home weird and I got irritated and said "Alright, I'm going to leave, ok?" I wanted him to say "No no stay." But because the way I said it and because I gave him a negative option, he took it.
You did the right thing, tried to let her off the hook nicely and she said "Nooooo, I'll go."
So, plan it. Make it good.
And if for some reason she backs out, smile and say "Hope you're ok, we're outta here." And take the kids to dinner or whatever you have planned.
I think she is throwing you attitude because she's liking you right now and "How can that be....??? She wants a divorce...?? What the hell is going on here????"
She so wants to be with you all tomorrow night. Ignore her attitude and outshine it with your PMA.
Tomorrow is going to be a blast.
Thanks Still, your outlook to so good for me. You are helping more than you can imagine. I am ready to go to bed and end this day, but I can't sleep more than 5 hours so I would be up at 1 or 2, I may double up on the ambien tonight.
Tomorrow will be better I hope!
Also, how are things going now with your sitch, I looked on your thread but haven't seen an update on how things are going.
Definitely go with Still's approach,
have FUN and only a fool would want to miss the evening planned. Stuff that makes the kids laugh but that wife likes. And the in laws are smart to do and say what they wanted and needed to say. Why can't you change your Florida plans? What are they? Why should they have to care for your kids? Just asking...Don't be too sure that your explanations satisfied them but the point about being with them the way you are supposed to be with your wife is interesting....OF COURSE it is. It's how we are supposed to be with people. We are not supposed to bludgeon them with our desires and opinions....
You did well. Be happy (or fake it 'til you make it). Be a man only a fool would leave. Have a good RELAXED NO R talk evening with your w. Say some general things in the card about her having a year of "discovery or joy rediscovered," etc
(( j ))
You really are doing a great job. I think you are making the decision to leave a very stupid one. She's more confused now that ever before. I think it was Eisenhower who said "If you can't convince them, confuse them." And that's where you and I are right now. I figure if we're confused, they deserve to be too!
As far as her birthday goes, just have a blast. No R talks.
What have you decided about the gift and cards?
good morning!
I'm glad I "met" you too LR. It's been a less bumpy ride with all the support from you and my DBing family.
Things are ok with us. I'm up and down just like you.
I told H on Monday, I'm sort of sick of you and I don't like you very much right now, so I need a break. And he's given me one. I've not had any contact with him for the last couple of days except for when we exchange S. It's possible though that I won't see or talk to him until Sunday night for dinner. Then he has S again on Monday and Wednesday nights, plus the next two weekends.
I feel good that I've been able to cut off contact with him and go dark, but I will also admit, it's been easier because I knew I was going to see him when he dropped S back off with me. But for the rest of the weekend, I think it's very possible, we aren't going to speak, call, text or email. This is going to be tough.
I just keep wondering: What if he likes it without me?
But today has been an ok day so far.
Still,
I don't understand this
You really are doing a great job. I think you are making the decision to leave a very stupid one.
I haven't made a decision to leave, so I am confused on this?
About the card/present. I am going to give her the present I bought tonight at dinner. I went and got a nice friendly card and will put something in it as 25 suggested. Also, I know about no R talks tonight, its all about fun and celebrating her bday. Thanks for the support.
Also, Hang in there in your sitch. I don't think he will like it without you. Just keep what you are doing and get re-energized and then get back into it. You can do it.
LonelyRzr
"You really are doing a great job. I think you are making the decision to leave a very stupid one."
Not you Silly! You are making her decision to leave a very stupid one, meaning, you are giving her no reason to leave. As a matter of fact, you are giving her very good reasons to stay. I just think of all us newbies, you might be doing the best in terms of control and really getting the DBing down.
I hope he misses me and us as a family.
I am feeling re-engergized......good word.
I think the little party is going to be a lot of fun for all of you.
If she brings up relationship talks for some reason, what are youg going to say to deflect it?
Oh, ok - I am dumb I guess? Its all about me
I really don't think I am doing the best by any means. I was a freakin mess yesterday, but today I am better.
I bet he does miss you! You keep doing what your doing.
I hope tonight goes well, I am really wanting it to be good. I don't think she will bring up R talk. It is usually me when we talk about it. Plus we will be with the kids and she won't bring it up around them.
I think for tonight, starting now, you need to get into the Acting As If mode. Act As If everything is how it should be and just enjoy yourself. See you and your family from a by standers perspective, which should be a normal and happy and satisfied family out for one person's birthday.
And your freakin mess is not anywhere close to my freakin mess.
And your wife is more confused now than ever before! Good job LR!
I will start getting into "as if" mode now. I hope her being confused, if she is, is a good thing. I feel like she is more distant now? We will see how tonight goes. I am ready for the day to end and I have 4 more hours. Crap!
Since hearing from AJ and Kassie, I've been trying to put myself in their shoes. (Our spouses, I mean, not AJ and Kassie.) I try to think like them and figure out how I would act and what I would say. It's actually been better for me these last couple of days to do this instead of trying to analyze every little eye flutter or smile or frown or whatever.
I think if I were your wife, and I told you I wanted out AND then you started to give me doubts about leaving with your actions, I think I might be distant too. I think I would act this way because A.) I'm confused now.....maybe I don't want to leave and B.) I'm confused but want to believe leaving is the best thing so I'm trying to be a distant and sort of mean, but you are making it hard to be mean, so I can do distant.....
Know what I mean? I think this is all good stuff for you.
Just have a great time.
Maybe try to treat her like a really good, long time friend who you know, needs to relax a bit and deserves some extra TLC from her friends and family.
My db coach said that when h would call, I should "Listen like a lover" (depending on your sitch that might mean "a friend" but you get the point) and to contrast the negative images they use to justify their actions, with positives...which is another reason for 180s...Don't fuel the negative images, so if there were temper problems, LOSE THE ANGER, at least in front of her... This was huge for me, b/c h infuriated me with selfishness and deceit. But the more I complained...the less he wanted to hear it. And remember to have fun together--laugh. it helps the bonding, and their negative recall of the M won't withstand all the positives and pleasant moments you can create.
Just food for thought. Try Laughing a lot!
(( j ))
Update:
Had a GREAT night but started a little rough. I left work early to take a shower and get cleaned up and then went to buy her a small cake (she LOVES cake). When I got home she was asleep, so I let her sleep for about 20 minutes and then went to wake her up. She got ready and then said that she need to clean out her backseat if we were taking her car. So I was being thoughtful and went to do it for her and I saw a receipt on top from a bunch of clothes she got. She said something like "I am not keeping all of that" and I replied I sure hope not (it was like $1600 worth). She kind of shook her head and sighed real loud. I started to get ticked off but didn't and stayed calm. Then I asked her why she was acting mad and she said that she wasn't but just frustrated. Anyway, that all got over with quick and but it was a rough start to the night.
We went to pick up the kids at the movies with their aunt so we could head to dinner. I took them out to our favorite restaurant and we had a great meal. Lots of talk and laughing. Seemed like old times for sure. I gave her the cards, one from the kids and one from me. She loved them and especially loved the card I got her. I was not a wife card or loving card, but a your a special person card. I then wrote something like 25 told me to and put I know this hasn't been the easiest or best year but I hope you are able to learn and grow and find peace and joy in the year to come. And to know that you are valued, respected and loved by me. When she read it, she got a happy/sad look on her face and her eyes watered and just said thank you very sweetly. I also gave her the present which she loved too. It was an outfit I saw in Dallas on my trip and she tried it on when she got home.
Speaking of which, I put the kids to bed and then went downstairs to leave and tell her bye. I told her that I had a great time tonight and she stood up and told me that she loved the night, the meal, card, presents and gave me a hug. It was the first hug she has initiated in months
I can't read too much into it because she was probably just being nice and thanking me, but I have to say that I liked it.
On the way home, I texted her to say again that I had a good time and she thanked me again and said how nice everything was. Anyway, it was a good night. Hopefully more to come. I really do miss her and having a night like this as a family just makes me want it so much more and makes me that much more determined to never give up hope.
I am THRILLED for you!!
You and your family really deserved that.
And it sounds like she loved the gift and the card was perfect.
So keep the momentum going. How are you going to do that? Any game plan?
My suggestion would be to nicely pull back a bit because she's probably expecting you to want to push forward with the momentum, so if you pull back, that would be a shock and unexpected.
Keep us posted.
I am pulling back. The kids are having a sleep over with me tonight and she is going out with the friend that I don't like. She texted me this morning to see how my men's bible study group went. Then texted me back to tell me she loved the cake and cards again. So good start to the day.
I have an IC appt today too. So that will be good as well.
Why don't you like these friends?
I wouldn't worry about them too much. The reality is this: Think about how much say and influence your friends have over you now....Mine are great and so wonderful, I love them dearly, but they have no influence over me anymore. If I ask them "Does this make my butt look big?" that's me asking an opinion. And of course, they always say "No, you look hot!"
But if they were trying to put their nose in my life to help "run" it, I would back off of them as friends.
Still,
Its just one friend in particular who we knew in high school and were never close. Now all of the sudden since Sep08, they are best friends, long lost friends. She is divorced and married way up in a prestigious family in the area. Her and her ex are great friends still. I believe that she is talking up D to W and making things look rosy. Anyway, I don't know this for a fact, but I do have bad feelings about it. And I know that no one can force their opinions on you, but I am sane right now. W is still a little off in WASland. So I think she is susceptible to friend making things look glamorous.
W texted me and asked what plans were for tomorrow and if I would like to meet her for lunch. So hopefully that is a good sign. She could have just said to drop the kids off.
Geez LZR,
be happy!! You had a great night with W and stop the negative imaging about what the HS Friend is saying...just b/c she left her M and "married UP" (wth??? you mean married someone with more money? What is it with you men always saying women 'marry up' b/c the new guy earns more....I don't think that many of us are that way...)
But you have zero control over it anyhow and as Still says, so what? I have LOTS of friends who's advice is almost useless to me in this arena. I always consider the source. If your w is in la la land, she'll still have to come to grips with the fact that she was happy last night...oh yeah...
As for the receipts and clothes...ouch! Did you HAVE to say anything, and right then on her birthday?? Really?? I can see how that could bug her & come up again. If you are having financial problems, she already knows...she knows...she's an adult and doesn't want to feel like a "kid getting caught by her parents".
You could have said nothing, (& let her see you saying nothing,) and then maybe she'd feel bad about it if there are money issues... BUT b/c you blurted out the "I sure hope so!" now she gets to feel defensive, which will probably lead to resentment. Sometimes silence is more powerful...
But back to the happy times. You can't undo the sentence and the evening progressed anyway...so focus on those moments and have a good c session. You are making progress...so be glad for that. There are lots of good signs here.
(( j ))
25,
I am happy. I had an awesome time last night and had a great feeling about it. Probably read too much into it, but nevertheless, it was good and I was/am happy.
I know that I have zero control, it still makes me defensive about the friend. I have to work and deal with that internally. I have not let on to W that it upsets me, just venting to you guys.
I also know that I should not have said anything about the invoice. I wasn't going to say anything when I first saw it and she saw me with the stack of papers and that on top and got defensive about not keeping it all. I let it out before I even knew what I said. Again, it came out and didn't effect our evening as we still had a great time.
I know progress is being made, I am still working on patience and doing better in that area. Just finished reading The Four Agreements and now reading the Power of Patience. I hope and pray that things continue to improve.
LonellyRr
Hiya
What is the Four Agreements about?
You are doing great and concentrate on being happy now. You've made huge huge strides, keep it friendly and maybe try to be a little unavailable, but very apologetic about it. Let's keep her on her toes!!
And really, don't worry about the friend. You could be completely wrong. She could be miserable and missing her ex and telling your wife this.
You are really doing so well, I'm so proud of you.
And yes, keep stressing here and venting to us.
Its by Miguel Ruiz and the four agreements are:
1. Be impeccable with your words
2. Don't take anything personal
3. Don't make assumptions
4. Always do your best
It was a pretty enlightening little book.
I just got back from my IC and it went well. He was very surprised at the new things going on. Very pleasantly surprised. We talked about how to accomplish my goals for myself and talked about the April 22 (which is the 8 weeks I was supposed to be out of the house) and how I approach going back or based on new developments, to take it slow and not make a huge stand on that since I did just make a big stand on the boundaries and since that time she was softened? What do you guys think? Do I move back in come hell or high water on the 22nd or take it slow?
First of all, what do YOU want to do?
My vote is to not go home just yet. You've made so much progress out of the house. And it's not like the door or window is going to slam shut forever on the 23rd. So maybe wait and see how things are going. You never know, on the 20th she may say "Do you have all the boxes you need to move your stuff back? Can I help in anyway?" And then you are 100% the man with the ball in his court. So, more than anything, I don't think you need to decide that right now.
Just keep doing your thing, which frankly is quite amazing to read about and I'm so proud of you!!
Still,
Hope you are having a good "me" night tonight. I am having a blast with the kids. W is out with friend while kids spend the night with me. I am not doing anything or worrying about going home just yet. It just came up in IC today and just wanted everyone's opinion on it. I will play it by ear and see how things are closer to the 22nd. A lot can happen in a month for sure. I am just going to keep hanging in there and keep DBin my butt off. Also still trying to detach and work on me. You do the same!
Rzr, it's hard to say either way. Being out of the house gives you both a chance to breath and to look at the relationship from more of a distance than you will be able to see when you guys are together all the time in a house.
Also, you not being around allows your W the chance to take the focus off of you and put it on the feelings and thoughts she is having. My W was focused on me and the past negatives, etc...
When you make room between the two of you it gives space for things to grow.
The thing is this - you can't make the decision based on getting some kind of 'reaction' or 'outcome' for the sitch as a whole. If you try to control it in this manner it will most likely backfire. If you aren't in a rush to get back home I would say wait until you feel the pull to go back.
It's really a hard call. No one can tell you what to do one way or the other. But I would suggest make the decision that YOU are comfortable with, and again, don't make it based on what you think will happen to your R whichever way you decide.
I know it's hard to leave the 'big picture' out of the decision, but you can't even see the big picture so there's no sense in trying to figure it out - you need one of those crystal balls for that. And last I checked they were all sold out...lol
My gut tells me that it's riskier to move too fast than moving slower...and it'd be such a 180 for you to say, "no, we're not ready yet," unless something big changes in the next month. And you've only been at this one month, right? So, really we are all just speculating...
Who knows? What does the IC say and what about a DB coach? Have you tried one? They're excellent and I say that as someone who also loved her t as well. But DB is so specific for things like this...anyhow...keep up the good work and do what works and stop doing what doesn't. It's not complicated, but it IS hard...
(( j ))
Hi LonelyRzr, sorry I have been out of touch lately. But hopefully I can get back in the groove again. I'll try to catch up on your thread, but just wanted you to know I had not been ignoring you.
Take care,
Sandi2
Hey,
I made it to the Keys and having a blast so far. Haven't thought about W or sitch much since I got here. Just what I needed. Not much of an update tonight, getting up early for fishing in morning, but will update tomorrow. Yesterday wasn't so good.
I hope you are having a blast in the Keys. I went there for spring break once and LOVED it, and I knew I would live in Florida one day. I didn't understand how I wasn't living here already to be honest.
let us know what's going on when you get the chance.
Hey Rzr,
Just checking in with you buddy. Let us know how that B I G one got away.
Hey everyone,
Been having a great time. Caught ALOT of fish including a 5ft long Lemon Shark yesterday and caught on ultralight rod, that WAS FUN!! We just got back from fishing again today and had fun again. It has been a weird trip in that I have been on and off with thinking about W and sitch. Sometimes not at all and other times, I can't STOP thinking about it. I haven't really called or texted W except a few times and none today, but she hasn't me either, which sux. I kind of hoped she would miss me but I don't think that is the case.
We had a backslide on Saturday before I left and it was my fault. I don't remember all of the details, but I was kind of mad that day for some reason and don't really know why. We had her bday party and her parents kept dropping hints all night how I had planned everything and gotten the cake, ect. It was obvious to me, so I am sure it was to her also. Anyway, when we got home I played with the kids and then said I was leaving. She said why don't you stay for a while and I was mad (for some unknown reason) and said no that I was leaving. She then got mad and came over to my car and was saying how she was being nice and I was doing this and I said that I know and I would talk to her later and then left. Big stupid me. I don't know why I did that, but I did. I called her later to apologize and tell her goodnight and that went ok, but I wish that I would have stayed.
We head back to Miami tomorrow night and then I come back home on Thursday. I will check in again probably later tonight and then again tomorrow. I haven't had a chance to check on everyone's thread, so I hope all of you are doing ok.
LonelyRzr
I understand. Sometimes, you just have what I like to call a "nutty". And I think you were irritated by her parents. But I think what you and I need to remember is that your W's and my H's reactions to something are not going to be the same as our reactions. And apparently, the in-laws dropping hints like that seemed to have a great impact on her because she asked you to stay.
Leaving was not a bad move. I think that is a 180 and threw her off, which is good at this point. Make her wonder "Who is this guy? I don't know him, but I'd like to! He's sexy!"
And sometimes, I can be completely in my "no thinking about H" zone and other times, I can't shake H out of my mind. That does suck and it's so arbitary as to when it's going to happen.
Glad you had a blast, you deserved it.
And her not calling you.....doesn't mean at all that she doesn't miss you. I think with the situation the way it is, it's a good sign. She's trying to be tough guy.
Not understanding why you were feeling irritated on her birthday and not knowing the reason behind the emotions you were feeling.......can that help you in some small way to see how mixed up her emotions are also? I may have told you already, but there were days that my feeling changed up and down so drastic until I hardly was certain who I was......in fact, I was questioning that.....who was I any more.
Just wanted to point that out since I was an AWAW and the terrible mixed up feelings you have and try to find the reasons and don't know why and it is so easy to point your finger and say that it is all the H's fault. I'm not taking up for her bad behavior.....just trying to help you maybe understand her a bit.
Take care,
Sandi2
Ahhh, insightful....that helps me a lot.
Thanks Sandi2!
Sandi,
Definitely insightful! I never thought of it like that. I know she is going through the ringer trying to figure out what to do. She is lost and has told as much.
I am back home now from my trip and anxious to see my kids. Just talked to W and asked what their plans were for the night as I wanted to see them. She told me that D is spending night with a friend and W is going out with a friend so that leaves me and little man, which is fine as we will have fun, but kind of disappointed that we are not all gonna be together..... oh well, can't have it all.
W told me that she went to our MC today alone as scheduled and we are going together on Monday. Nothing much else to report, but I am glad to be home and will be checking in here more often.
That is one reason I keep on saying to try not to focus and put so much "meaning" behind here mood swings. Don't obsess over what she says or doesn't say b/c more than likely, it will change almost hourly. I would be shocked at myself to see how quickly my emotions or mindset would turn over. That was a small part of my feeling like there were days that I was having a nervous break-down b/c I could not get "control" of myself or my stitch.
Sandi
LzR,
I echo those sentiments. The whole mind reading rarely helps us but it sure can beat us up. Plus the idea that her NOT calling means she was NOT thinking of you or missing you, is just not realistic. Who knows what she felt or thought? Who really cares? I mean the minute by minute stuff does NOT matter. Yeah, too bad she invited you and you said no. But then again it was a 180, right?
Heck, truth be told, there are days my moods change hourly and I KNOW the feminist in my hates admitting that....so I just don't make calls at those times. She's confused.. That's all you "know", and by the way, so are you...
Oh well. You really are making progress so keep your eye on the big picture and enjoy your moments with the kids...
the universe will throw some good things your way so be ready for that to happen.
((( j )))
Update:
It looks like the OM deal is definitely over and was just an EA at best, my mind seemed to run away with me on what it actually was. Right now, my M is still the same. W is very confused about the future (as am I) but she tells me that she she wants to "want our M to get better" but she isn't sure how to go about it right now. She tells me that she loves me and cares about me and wants our R to improve no matter in what capacity. I want that too, but I want more. I guess I backslid some in getting into this discussion, but it was not a fight. We were just discussing and doing it calmly. She wasn't baiting me or being mean, just being honest and confused and I respect that.
Right now, I am the one that is keeping things from healing and getting better. I keep getting my feelings hurt and then do stupid things. My up and downs are keeping her confused and me from being attactive enough and safe enough to come back to. I honestly think if I could just let go of everything and focus on 180, GAL, ect instead of constantly reading too much into every little word or action, I will defeat this disaster. She wants to come back to me, she doesn't know how and I am making it worse.
The mind is so crazy. I know what to do and I know that things are ok and then my mind runs with something and then I react to fiction instead of fact when I KNOW ITS FICTION!?!
Okay, here comes a 2x4, so brace yourself. You better get this and get it straight. I have been there, brother, and if you don't get your act together real quick (like today) she will be out that door! Is that what you want? Then straighten the hell up. What is wrong with you? She said she wanted to work on the M? Do you realize how lucky you are? I sure as heck did not want to work on my M! I grieved over the OM for months on end and fantisised about him every night when I went to bed and wanted to call him, email him, etc. Don't you dare consider it being "just" and EA b/c you have no idea how strong and powerful an EA is for a woman who is unhappy in her M. Right now, she is very, very fragile and she doesn't need an a$$ for a H. She needs a man that will be patient and give her gentleness and forgiveness and most of all don't press her with your "needs" right now b/c she is doing all she can do. Give her credit for that and for making the right choice to stay with you. Don't mess up now for gosh sakes!
I got to tell you that this will not be over in a week or two.....even with her trying hard to get over OM and to work on the M. Don't press her about sex or being overly romantic and smothering her. Take things slow and ease back into the R.
I want that too, but I want more.
I'm sure you do want more, but again I have to tell you that you have no idea how blessed you are that she even told you that she loved you and cared for you and wanted to work at your M. Can't you see that? Are you so wrapped up in what you want right this minute that you can't be grateful for what she has decided to do and give her some time to make that transition? I can tell you up front that I certainly did not give my H any of that "hope" that your W gave you. I told him that I did not know if I would ever have any feelings for him again and I had no desire to work at the M, but I had to stay under the same roof with him. So, how would you have like to hear that from your wife? Do you see what I am saying here? I see her giving you hope for a future together, but it doesn't seem to be enough b/c you want "more". Well, all I can say is you are going to mess it up if you aren't careful. You better get your head together and start thinking DBing and stop that back sliding if you don't want to lose her.
Sandi
Sandi,
Thanks for the 2x4, I did need that. I do want to clarify one thing though, I didn't say "just" and EA. I was said at "best" an EA and I meant that it wasn't a PA and she still claims adamantly that it was just a close friendship that went a little too far? I do realize how lucky I am to have her say those things. I guess right now that I feel like she is saying more that she wants to do all she can to make sure relationship is ok after marriage instead of actually working on marriage. Maybe I reading more into it again
I am about to head to MC with W in a few minutes so i will update after the meeting.
Sandi,
Another thing that I want to clear up as it wasn't clear after I just reread it. The "I want more" statement was referring to her statement on improving the R no matter what the capacity. I took that as a negative (wrong I know) in that she was resigning herself to just being friends and not married. "I want more" was in regards to that in that I want our M to improve not just the R and being friends.
Update from MC:
It was a tough day. We got right into the meat of things and W brought out the I want to want to try but I just don't have it right now. Also said the deal again about making the R stronger no matter in what capacity. I told the MC that I have begun to lose hope and that I know it is probably me just grasping to the negative in her comments, but they were discouraging for me. MC understood and W validated my comments. She did say that things may be too far gone to repair. MC said that she didn't believe that and that she saw real hope in out sitch. She told us that we made vows and commitments to each other and that we need to at least give all we have and more to make things work. We haven't lost anything if we do that, but if we don't then we will never know if it could work.
Those are the words I have been saying for over about 5 months now and maybe W heard and understood them coming from C instead of me. I think she did based on her reaction. Later in session, W said that what if I make the changes and become H of the year and it still isn't enough for her. C said that it is a risk, but it is a risk worth taking.
We worked on through some things about OM and my faults in our M. I think that was productive and all in all, I believe the session was very productive today. I went in there with little hope and came out with some. I think W is going to start trying to work on M. Maybe I am crazy, but I do think she wants to come back to me deep down, but she is scared that I will still be a jerk and I haven't given her reasons to believe otherwise.
I have fallen off the DB horse and I will hop back on. I am calling today to get a coach to help me. I had taken about a 2 week break from everything. I will start today getting back to GAL, 180, ect. Thanks again for your and everyone else's continued support.
thank GOD Sandi2 is here to tell you everything she just said....seriously....
nothing to add except if you have to get meds, so you can stop the looping around in your head and blurting out your neediness...then get them. Don't blow this.
Get help, get the DB coaching, asap...what's money for if not this?
(( j ))
Hey there!
I've been out of the loop lately. Sorry about that.
You are doing great in that you realize what you have to do and are admitting, you aren't doing it.
I back slide ALL the time. I hate it. I even know I'm back sliding as I open my mouth and talk about whatever.
99% of my back slides are related to ex-OW from his EA. Last nigth he told me if I bring it up he's leaving, throwing me out of the house or hanging up on me. Even my girlfriend told me to SHUT UP!!!!!!!!!
It's hard though. You are just SO MAD about that stupid other person!!! What the heck does that stupid other person have that we don't???? What did our spouses get out of that relationship with OP?
I understand the questions running around in your head....would they have really left us for that OP?????
But we both have to let it go. We both have to move forward and be our happy selves.
You are doing great LR, just hang in there.
I think she does want to come back to you but wants to see the new you first and wants to know for sure the new you will be the permanent regular you.
Understandable.
I hope my H is doing the same thing.
Think of the power you give to OP when you refuse to let go of them...
Forgiveness is the way out of hell (Marianne Williamson) and your hell is self imposed...that means LETTING GO....and not pickin it up again. Turn it over to GOD and don't take it back!
Let the worthless OPs go, drop them. Give them no more of your life's energy and btw, you'll look so much healthier to your spouses. One WAH friend of ours told ME that he wanted to go back to his w & make it work, but knew "she'd put me through hell and won't ever let me forget it" and given the pain and anger his w feels (and she is my friend) I think he is right....SORRY but HE IS RIGHT. The lbs-er won't let it go and has sentenced them both to hell, (or he can move on in his life and start over.)
He really was remorseful, repentant and I believed him when he said his A was over. I really believe they could have made it. But my friend (his w) could not let it go. 6 months of this and he's out the door for good this weekend unless she shuts the hell up. Any suggestions?
Anything you can learn from this? Hope so.
(( j ))
This is for Stillloveshimso.........honey you are so obsessed with the OW until you talk about it in your posts to other people. What I mean is that you started out to try to tell this man on his thread to hang in there, but that is as far as you got b/c it was all about you and the OW and how you can't stop talking about her. That is obvious. You don't stop talking about her! But, you have a choice here and you better make it quickly......you
CAN stop talking about the OW and remove her from your mind and your life or lose your H for good b/c you are running him away as fast as your mouth will talk. Now, that is as plain as I know how to make it. You keep saying it's hard (and it is) and you keep saying you can't stop talking about her......but you CAN. You can do whatever you chose to do, but it is how badly you want to get rid of this OW once and for all. Do you know how to do that? No, I'm not talking about hiring a hit man!
I mean to act as if she does not exist. You.......
YOU, are the one that is keeping her alive in your H's mind (and in your mind as well). Why allow her to live in your mind and in his? You are doing much more
FOR HER than
she ever could. Is that the route you want to take? Why not just hand your H over to her on a silver platter?
"Every woman has the M she wants to have". I can't remember who said that, but I remember I did not like it when I read it! (lol) But, I do think we women have a lot of "power" but we must be wise in how we use it. We can make it work
for us or we can use it to distory what we really want. I can tell you that the more you b*tch about this OW, the more you are losing your H, so it is up to you. You can become what you need to be and woo him back, or you can become a nag that he can't stand........and right now, that is exactly what you are being.
Sandi
LonelyRzr, thanks for clearing some things up.
I do want to say something about her trying to reach that place where she wants to work on the M. (May not be her exact wording.) You see, I know what she means by that b/c I actually told my H that I had to reach the point where I was willing "to be willing". Does that make sense? She is trying to do this out of her "will" and not necessarily by "feelings" and I know that stings you, but it is what it is. She realizes that she just does not feel willing, but that she needs to do work toward a M with you. She has a long way to go and she needs to see a lot of changes in you. She just can't find a lot of hope right now b/c her feeling are pretty low where the M is concerned. You want more b/c you want the sex and the whole thing right away. Most men do b/c it is normal for them, however, she is trying to see if the two of you can make a go of being friends, first, and if you can't even be friends, then she is thinking that you can forget being lovers (IMHO). It goes against the grain for a man b/c he doesn't want to wait. His "needs" causes him to be very impatient. I had been M a long time when I had an EA. I did not want to stay in my M, and it took a very long time for me to really get to the point of wanting to be with my H. It was baby steps like you wouldn't believe. Don't ask me how long it took b/c it was so slow, I don't even know. And, I wasn't looking at the calendar.
So, are you willing to go the distance if it means waiting and working to become close again, b/c it is not going to happen in just a few weeks and maybe even months. This is not to discourage you, but to be frank and honest so you will have an idea of what you are facing. I do hope you will talk to a DB coach.
Take care,
Sandi
Hi, I don't really have any sound advice for you, I'm sorry.
The thing is you are one lucky guy she is even considering coming back, take that opportunity if you can.
Sandi2, I would love it if you could check out my sitch. You seem to be a real straight shooter. I really need that right now in my life. You have a great deal of insight and I am not getting enough of the female perspective right now. PLEASE HELP ME OUT!
Hi Sandi--
Sorry to hijack here--but you are right. I am sick of her. I don't know if you read about this, but ex-OW and her crazy ex-BF have been screwing with me via text messages and emails. It's was crazy. Her ex sent me her CRIMINAL RECORD. Not sure why. I think he wanted me to give it to her boss, whom I'm close to, so she would be fired. I did not. I hit delete!!! Then someone sent me some emails H wrote to her. Very hard to read and I hope they were written during a time when things were very very bad for me and H, which would have been around Christmas. But there's no way to tell, no dates on the messages.
A girlfriend and I had a little funeral for her. Funny yet sad for me at the same time because this person even exists is hurtful and is still something I'm dealing with. One of the emails said something that made me wonder if they were saying "I love you" to each other.
Lots to think about in terms of my boundaries.
But yes, you are right. She needs to really go away as it relates to me--in my mind and life.
I know.
I do want to say something about her trying to reach that place where she wants to work on the M. (May not be her exact wording.) You see, I know what she means by that b/c I actually told my H that I had to reach the point where I was willing "to be willing". Does that make sense? She is trying to do this out of her "will" and not necessarily by "feelings" and I know that stings you, but it is what it is. She realizes that she just does not feel willing, but that she needs to do work toward a M with you. She has a long way to go and she needs to see a lot of changes in you. She just can't find a lot of hope right now b/c her feeling are pretty low where the M is concerned. You want more b/c you want the sex and the whole thing right away. Most men do b/c it is normal for them, however, she is trying to see if the two of you can make a go of being friends, first, and if you can't even be friends, then she is thinking that you can forget being lovers (IMHO). It goes against the grain for a man b/c he doesn't want to wait. His "needs" causes him to be very impatient. I had been M a long time when I had an EA. I did not want to stay in my M, and it took a very long time for me to really get to the point of wanting to be with my H. It was baby steps like you wouldn't believe. Don't ask me how long it took b/c it was so slow, I don't even know. And, I wasn't looking at the calendar.
So, are you willing to go the distance if it means waiting and working to become close again, b/c it is not going to happen in just a few weeks and maybe even months. This is not to discourage you, but to be frank and honest so you will have an idea of what you are facing. I do hope you will talk to a DB coach.
Sandi,
Thanks for the advice. It does sting a lot to know that our M has fallen so far that she has to muster the energy to work on our M, but I do get it. I understand "why" we are where we are. I own my faults and my actions that caused us to get here and I understand hers as well. We are both at fault. I want to get things back and I think she does but she is still fighting it. She is very confused. She gives good signals and bad signals. Today was bad. She wasn't hopeful at all. She told me that things probably won't work. I told her that is ok, I just hope she doesn't give up without trying. I told her this morning that we need to stop all R talk except in MC and that we just needed to work on being friends. I told her that I still considered her my best friend and that hasn't changed throughout all of this. She told me that she couldn't say the same for me. That stung too. She later texted me and said that we haven't been acting like best friends for a long time and that is why she said that. Still stings, but I understand and told her that I did. I said that I want to continue being nice to each other and try to work on things as friends and and see if we can build from there. But NO R TALK PERIOD, and that was mainly a message for me from me.
I am impatient, we all already know that. I do want things to get better and would rather it be sooner than later, but I also understand that IF anything is going to improve, it will be a long time. I am willing to wait and go the distance. I have been pretty needy lately and that has set us back. I was needing validation that she was going to try to work on things and when she couldn't or wouldn't give it, my feelings would get hurt and then we would go into a tailspin. That has been fixed today and we will move on from here. But I am willing to go through whatever hell is out there to make this marriage work and be better than ever before.
I am going to call and set something up today with the coach.
Stillloveshim......wow, they sound like the entire bunch is loony tunes! I know for me, it would be very hard to hit the delete key without reading what it had to say, but honey, if you will take this old woman's advise......you will be healing yourself if you can do that b/c they are screwing with your mind....absolutely! But, seriously, from what you say about her BF, it sounds like some crazy people you don't need to even acknowledge exists.
I understand it is hard, and I have learned from talking and reading LBS's threads how obsessed they become with the OP, but it is the most unhealthy thing you can do to yourself. Nobody is important in this R but you and your H. For a while, only YOU have to be important.....if you know what I mean. I need to catch up on your thread b/c I really don't know if the two of you are back together or not. But, I was seeing other posts from you and I could see this OW was eating you up alive.
Hope you are much stronger by now and things are showing some improvement.
Take care,
Sandi
LonelyRzr, good for you about contacting a DB coach.
I want to say that you are being a big person to admit your faults in the M. My H never admitted to anything he did wrong, and in fact, had the nerve to say he hadn't done anything wrong! He may have been referring to me having an EA and he had never done anything like that, but that is not what he said! That was a hard mountain for me to climb in trying to get to the point of being willing to "be willing". Every time I looked at him, I saw a self-righteous man who thought he was so "good" and I was the "sinner". It would make me so angry and turned off toward him. I said some very hard and cruel things to him. He never tried to get help and he would not even consider going to MC with me. So, you might say that I had to get where I am by reaching out for help on my own. That is why I was here so much on this board. It was my therapy. It taught me a lot. It saved my M.
Anyway, you have made the right decision to contact a DB coach. I do respect the fact that you can admit where you failed b/c I think in most M's, it is some failure on both sides. Nobody is perfect. I do know some cases where it appeared that one person was about perfect and the other one strayed, so there may be exceptions.......but in most cases I think there is fault on both sides.
Take care,
Sandi
Just got back "home" from weekend with S while W and D were off at dance competition. Went to D bball game tonight when they got back and then all went to eat after game. W was distant but so was I. It was a nice dinner, nothing bad happened which was good. I met them back at the house and got the kids in the shower and then when W got back from store I ended up going back to my place. As I was leaving, she told me thank you for coming to eat with us and I said that I had a fun time.
While I was at the house this weekend SIL came over and started asking me how things were going. I told her they were fine and just the same as always and didn't go into anything with her as I didn't want to talk about this with her. She told me that her parents and her both think I should move on and leave her. I was like WTH, not sure where that came from, but she said that it would serve her right if I did. I was trying to improve myself in all areas and they all could see that and she was dumb not to notice and come back. Again, I didn't get into anything with her but I couldn't believe she told me to leave her sister. I did say that I wasn't going to do that and I was going to continue to do everything in my power to improve my life and if that makes her come back then that was great and if not, then I still have improved my life. She was happy for me and said she could definitely see differences in me. That made me feel good!
Anyway, nothing new on the M front. Still hanging in there. We will see what this week brings.
Some family support is good.....when it is of love and being there for you. However, there are some that are always ready to offer their advice and as you saw, this SIL's advice was one of revenge or spite. However, it is not her life.....it is yours, so I would not listen to negative talk like that and tell them up front that you don't need to hear that, but just need understanding from the family. The fact that your in-laws would not want to cast you out from them is a sign they like you and probably do support you, but may not know how to show it properly.
Continue to take good care of yourself. It is important to do that.
Sandi
Hey Sandi
You are right and I have taken steps to get rid of these people, get them out of my life.
I have changed my email and I have blocked my cell phone from those people from being able to contact me.
It has been too much and it has made me crazy.
I told H a few days ago "I am 33 years old. I have a child, the most important thing to me. I have a degree, I have a career and solid reputation in this town. Treat me like it. I'm number one or I'm nothing in you life." He said nothing but told me "Ok. I understand."
Who knows?
But you are 100% right. NO more OW or her crazy entourage.
It sounds to me like the family supports you and are pissed at her. Good for you. Not that it's a competition to win people over, but it's better they seem to support you as opposed to telling her "Leave him!!" Hopefully if SIL is saying that to you, she's telling her sister "You're crazy to even think about leaving this guy."
You have been doing very well.
And it was awesome she thanked you for coming to dinner and your response was perfect.
I need to learn to be like you and 2BA, I need to learn to shut up and walk away from the fights.
So proud of you!!
Stillloveshim.......good for you!!! I promise if you will stand up for yourself and make him work to have you, he will appreciate you much more than if you are clingy and needy. Of course, he wants respect from you as well, but I don't really think that was the problem here. As long as you value your own worth, then he will too......but if he doesn't......then, he doesn't deserve to have you. As a woman, I can understand how we can get so obsessed thinking about another female, but I think you are realizing how you were ruining your own chances with your H as well as ruining your entire life by doing that. It may have been a little tough that first time, but now that you've made your move.....stick with it and make him respect you. People treat you the way you teach them to treat you. You do have a lot to be proud of. You have accomplished a lot and should feel great about yourself and deserve every ounce of his respect.
Know what really.....really ticks me off at married people? When they treat strangers with more respect than their own spouse! So.....you go girl.....and keep on going. Did great!
Sandi
Had a bad day all around. Didn't fight with W or backslide or anything like that. Just felt terrible and depressed all day. Couldn't get problems out of my head. Miss my W terribly and to top it off, went to D's bball game tonight and W looked so good. I miss her so much and there is nothing I can do. I will chalk this up to just one of those days and hopefully tomorrow will be better. I did go out to a watch party tonight with some friends at work and it was alot of fun and then before I left the OM showed up. I just can't get away without something reminding me of everything.
I just need to go to bed and maybe get some sleep tonight. Does anyone know if you can get addicted to ambien? I can't seem to sleep more than 3-4 hours without it. I tend to take one about 3-4 nights in a row and then try to go a 2-3 without it. This really sucks!
Had a bad day all around. Didn't fight with W or backslide or anything like that. Just felt terrible and depressed all day. Couldn't get problems out of my head. Miss my W terribly and to top it off, went to D's bball game tonight and W looked so good. I miss her so much and there is nothing I can do. I will chalk this up to just one of those days and hopefully tomorrow will be better. I did go out to a watch party tonight with some friends at work and it was alot of fun and then before I left the OM showed up. I just can't get away without something reminding me of everything.
I just need to go to bed and maybe get some sleep tonight. Does anyone know if you can get addicted to ambien? I can't seem to sleep more than 3-4 hours without it. I tend to take one about 3-4 nights in a row and then try to go a 2-3 without it. This really sucks!
I've been in those moods. Just find something to keep you occupied, working out, new hobby, cleaning. Those are three good things. Taking your kids to do something like a zoo, aquarium, museum, etc. Lots of things you can do in order to have a good time.
I know spending time with my kids on the weekends helps dull the pain. Sunday was a bad day for me, but things have been fine this week.
Keeping up with your situation even when I'm not replying. Good luck man.
Hey LonelyRzr
I hope today has been better.
Yes, those days spent in your own head can be devestating. And it's crazy that in your own head you aren't completely safe.
Here's my advice: When you see that idiot, you act as you should, which is better than him. I know it's crappy to be judgemental but you are better than him. When he is in the room with you, just know, he's more afraid of you than you will ever understand. If you were to confront--which you should NOT do--he has nothing to stand on. So, forget him. He's nothing.
I've come to realize my H's EA wasn't so much that he really wanted that person as much as it was something different. She stroked his ego and he made her feel good about herself too. H and I were arguing. A lot. And sometimes, it was incredibly ugly. So ugly sometimes, I was embarrassed as it was going on. But too late to change that now. It is what it is. And for me, it's in the past.
Your W doesn't want this guy either. For some reason, she just needs her ego stroked. She needs someone to talk to because she can't talk to you right now. But she will get back on track IF you can stay the course. Sooner or later she is going to realize this kid is just a kid and really has nothing to offer her.
Look at it this way: When you need spiritual guidance, you go to church. When you need help with your golf swing, you go to a golf pro. When you need help with the stress in life, you go to a counselor. When you need help with picking out a the perfect gift for your beautiful wife, you go to her friends. You get it, etc.....For some reason she is using him as a sounding board. Just let it play out, stop asking her about it. You've let her know you don't like that relationship and why. And keep in mind, I think you are 100% right in asking that to end. But if you leave it alone, it will implode on its own.
You are doing great. You have so much support and you are wonderful wonderful wonderful!!
Thanks SLH,
Yesterday was non-eventful except we did get into one discussion about what to do next and I asked her what she wanted to do and she said to keep going to MC and see what we can do to fix things. Sounded good to me and thats exactly what we are going to do. Have our next appointment in an hour and I'll give an update afterwards. Hopefully things go good.
Today was a long draining day. She had IC and I was sort of a mess again today. But the night ended well. I was nice and so was she. We didn't go out together but I picked up the kids for dinner and she went shopping for easter stuff for the kids. I got the kids to bed and went downstairs to say goodnight. She was on the computer and I told her goodnight and leaned in to kiss her forehead and she leaned into me too:) I told her sorry for my part in her hard day and we talked light for a minute and then I told her goodnight and she did the same.
I am encouraged by how our night ended and know we will have up and downs but right now I believe we will make it someday! I talked with my friend today and he just found out this morning that his wife was having an EA. Wow, small world! I know exactly what he is going through and we talked for a while and he is actually coming to stay with me for the weekend since money is tight right now and he doesn't want to stay home. He is not sure he wants to stay in the marriage now but hopefully he will find peace no matter what his decision is. I am going to encourage him to come here for support.
Tomorrow, I will not be seeing W but will see her on Sat and Sun. Hopefully, this will be a good weekend. I will try to do my part in making that happen!
Well things sound awesome and that you are doing well. Why aren't you going to see her today?
She sounds like she is warming up....so I would just keep doing what you're doing and not add any new tricks just yet. Hold the line.
The reason I am not going to see her tonight is my friend that I mentioned in last post is coming to stay with me tonight. Plus I will be with her and the kids for the rest of the weekend. Today we have both been very cordial to each other and I have been in a good mood when we talked. Trying to break my habit of being down around her as it is draining her and so far so good today!
Yea, for you realizing that being in a negative mood is draining. It is for
you and everyone around you. That is why DB teaches us to act as if we are in a better mood than what we may actually feel. It is like meeting your perspective in-laws for the first time and putting your best foot forward......lol. Hummm.......I'll have to remember that anology!
Seriously, it took me a long time, but I did learn that I was capable of putting on my best face and my best foot forward, and uusually the rest followed....lol. We find out that we can do more than we often give ourselves credit for. We've all been somewhere when we had to be on our best behavior and maybe did not feel so hot on the inside.....so it proves the point, doesn't it? I read a long time ago that if we pretended to be like the person we wanted to be--that one day...we would become that person. Learning not to allow my bad moods to control my behavior was a hard lesson, but I found out I could do it if I wanted to badly enough. I also did an expierment many years ago after ready yet another book
and took a situation that would have normally made me very angry and I would have ruined everyone's visit and made my H miserable.......and "chose" to make the best of it and I was fun and relaxed and everyone had a great time....including "me"! The added bonus was that my H came to me later and told me how proud he was of me. I could tell he was quite surprised. So, we have the power to do pretty much what we choose to do. Don't know how encouraging that is or isn't, but for whatever it's worth.....there it is...
Take care,
Sandi
Another good day
I was very pleasant today and in a good mood all day and night. Took the kids to see Hannah Montana Movie today while W got things ready for Easter lunch tomorrow. Didn't really spend much time as a family today due to other things but the time we did have was good if not great. S had baseball practice today which I coach and afterward we both went to dinner and happened to run into my in-laws. S and I ate with them and had a good meal and conversation. Then went home to do eggs with kids and had fun. After getting kids to bed, W came downstairs as I was leaving and we hugged and I left. Its amazing how nice and responsive she is when I am not in a bad or down mood. Sandi you are definitely right!!! Thank you for keeping up with me and giving me your insights. Excited about tomorrow and spending the day with W and kids!
I'm with SLH...I think the sil saying your w is crazy and that they all notice your changes is great, and her comment about you "moving on" was not to punish the wife, but to wake her up.
Just a thought.
Good luck,
(( j ))
We had another great day! We all went to eat as a family with SIL and her family and W's parents and grandparents. W wore the dress I bought her for Christmas for the first time and wore her wedding ring for the first time in a while. I was VERY happy to see those things and she was absolutely stunning in the dress. We had a good day all around and sorry to see it over. My neighbors are looking likely to go through a divorce and it is hitting my W pretty hard and it may be waking her up a bit. My SIL told me today that W told MIL that this has really made her think twice about this and especially with how nice and great I have been being overall since she dropped the bomb. Even though we had a great day, I could tell she was a little distant like she was deep in thought. I will continue my "as if" tomorrow and continue to be the compassionate H and friend.
25, thanks for catching up with me again.
LonelyRzr
Well, all sounds very very well at your ranch! Keep it up and keep up with the PMA.
The dress and the ring need to go in your journal as triumphs for sure!
Another good day. Nothing special, but nothing bad and no back sliding for 4 consecutive days!!! I know that doesn't sound like much, but it is definitely a change for us lately and is very encouraging to me. W has been very pleasant to me and we have talked some today and then more at D's bball game tonight. We are both stuck (me more so) in our neighbors impending divorce and it is very stressful for us both but I think we are learning a lot from it. I hope this helps to wake her up and I think it may just do that. I feel really bad for my friends but I don't see any way for them to come out of it.
I am continuing to work on me and have read some books recently and am almost done with "Love without Hurt" and it is very enlightening. My next read will be "Hold onto your Nutts". Still working on my patience and continue to get better in that regard each day. I have been happier and more easy going, especially the last 4 days as I made up my mind that enough is enough with the pity party!
Ready for tomorrow to make it 5 in a row!
You sound good. You know what I was thinking while reading your stitch? All the different posts where you mentioned how you felt that day or you referred to it as a good or bad day. You aren't alone doing that b/c so many people on the board measures their day based on how well they think the DBing went or how the spouse acted toward them. I was just thinking........I can't remember the last time I thought that I was in a bad mood or my H didn't act like I wanted him to, or it was a crappy day b/c of my H's mood, etc. So, you will get to that place where you don't think about all of that stuff all the time. However, if you could make a concious effort to no be "moody" and try to maintain the same mood (at least on the front)it will help train you to not let your emotions dictate to you how your day is going to be. I am saying this from experience, btw. When I was a lot younger, I thought the world should revolve around "my" mood....
But one day at work I noticed that nobody was paying one bit of attention to my "mood". Of course, I wasn't thinking of it being a mood, as I recall, I thought I had a serious concern.....lol. However, it was discovering that those people I worked with could care less about my moods or whatever was going on at my house. I begin to take notice of people who seemed very grounded were the same every day. They did not show wide mood swings like I was doing......and you know what? I really admired those people who could do that and I began right then and there trying to work on myself to be more the same each day. Of course, there are times of sadness, troubles, or great happiness, etc. But everyone has these things in life. As I said, that was many years ago and when you do learn not to allow bad emotions to dictate your behavior, then you can say you have truly grown as a person b/c it is not an easy thing to accomplish.
You asked about the sleeping medication and you probably just need to talk to your doctor about it. Most prescription meds for sleep is addictive, but your sleep is very important and if you aren't getting more than 3 or 4 hours a night, then there's no wonder you are moody. You need to get your sleep or you will have other problems to arise with your health and you don't need that right now. You can deal with tappering off after all this is over. I went for a long, long time on very little sleep every night and I can promise you that it is bad on the body! You reach a place that you can't "deal" with anything and I personally think that is one reason you are having some of your mood problems. I hope you will think about it. You want to do what you need to but you aren't feeling well. You are worn out and I think it has a lot to do with not getting the proper rest you need.
So, take care,
Sandi
Hate to sound Pro-drug and all...but for once, I have to take issue with the whole "addicted"thing. It's important. But sleep deprivation is really underrated as a problem and it leads to SO many other health issues and R issues at a time when you can least afford it. And We are not discussing taking a med to "feel high"....
I definitely found taking certain sleep aids helped me so much I finally looked forward to sleeping, intead of fearing the nightmares. And I wasn't groggy in the mornings which I was when I didn't get sleep. Not to mention the whole mood thing...and not functioning well at work, ETC ETC Frankly, I'd rather go through withdrawal from ambien (if there is one--and from what I read, withdrawal consists of "rebound insomnia" which is what I already had!), than never sleep well again in the next year...
That's my two cents...
(( j )0
Sandi, this is going against the grain of your last post and I will get there eventually but I am still counting the days and had another good one. Still pretty uneventful but we were there for each other today. It seems there must be something in the stinking water where I live because we have 2 other couples that we hang with and found out today that they are now looking at separating or divorce. Also, the friend of my W that I don't really approve of just called her today and said her marriage is on the rocks (big surprise there), not to mention our neighbors I have already mentioned. That means that every friend that we have that we are close to is now in the same boat as us.
This really sucks and makes me question if we have a chance on one hand but then also makes me think that we might learn from all of these other couples and come back together?
Sandi, to go along with what you said earlier, my "mood" has evened out. It is probably a combination of the celexa, my growing, my faith, me seeing my neighbor and his abusive anger and me not wanting to be that way, and many other factors, but the thing is it has gotten better. And our relationship has improved more in the last week than in the last 6 months combined.
Im staying patient and acting "as if" and hoping for the best.
Also, to both Sandi and 25 - I agree with both of you and I am still taking the ambien and will deal with any withdrawal symptoms later, but I need my sleep now.
LonelyRzr
Another update:
Looks like my string of good days end and its no fault of mine. My *&^!$#$# in-laws are all over my W again. They are causing so many problems. I watched the kids last night and W left to supposedly go to the hospital to see her aunt and to another hospital to see her cousin who was in labor. Apparently she didn't go to either place and her parents are questioning her on this but NOT TO HER? They are asking me, asking her sister, asking everyone but her and its ridiculous. They are so manipulative and underhanded. They always try to catch you in a lie or doing something wrong instead of just being straight. I have not said a word and think it may have just been a misunderstanding, but part of me thinks she may be lying. Regardless, I never said anything about it and stayed my new persona - calm, nice and even tempered. I was compassionate to her in letting her vent about her parents and how I got them involved. Never complained or defended just validated.
W is hurt by all of this and she even said to me today that if they don't stop she is going to move away. I told her that I wouldn't let her move away and she said I couldn't stop her and I said you will not move our kids away from me. Her parents will not tell her what they are mad about. My MIL is crazy! She is bi-polar and if she ever gets stressed, there is hell to pay and its usually my W that gets it.
Not sure what to do. W and parents are meeting tomorrow with my W's IC to mediate this problem. This is absolutely crazy! I am sorry that I am rambling but it is so frustrating to actually see progress and then her parents move in and beat her down emotionally again. I really think that if we make it through this and W comes back, we need to separate ourselves from this family and move away. We will sacrifice a lot financially but the stress and hurt they put out is not worth any amount of money.
Hopefully, this counseling tomorrow will help them come to some sort of resolution, but I just don't know what to think. Her parents are hurting our chances at reconciling because they won't just let her heal. They keep bringing up OM and will not just let it die.
I'd support the moving away or your w going to some sort of intensive workshop to learn to break her addiction to the drug of her toxic family. I personally prefer workshops (no cults please...) b/c whenever I made progress in C, I'd make a breakthrough and then have to go back to work or home or whatever...but instead, I went to a workshop for 4 days and by the end of it, I had made a lot of breakthroughs and had a PLAN and ways to move forward.
Only after that, was I able to disconnect from some toxic relationships b/c I had enough uninterrupted time and space to work through it...
Barring that, get her out of there. SO instead of telling her you won't "let her go" with the kids (I know why you said that, but think of how it sounds to HER), tell her
that you'd support her leaving, together and getting the kids away from that too. REgardless of what happens to the M....(besides, maybe your inlaws could back off a bit too when they learn of the intent to move. They're NOT well).
(( j ))
25,
Thanks for the input. They are in still in the session now so its been going on 2 hours. Not sure how things are going, but I hope they are ok. Another development today which will probably bring down hell onto me is my FIL and BIL are firing the OM today.
Barring that, get her out of there. SO instead of telling her you won't "let her go" with the kids (I know why you said that, but think of how it sounds to HER), tell her
that you'd support her leaving, together and getting the kids away from that too. REgardless of what happens to the M....(besides, maybe your inlaws could back off a bit too when they learn of the intent to move. They're NOT well).
I agree with this statement. I know that what I said didn't sound good to her, but when I said that she backed off and said that she would never take them from me. So we weren't fighting and she was frustrated and I definitely understand that now is the time that we remove ourselves from this situation. I just hope that we can do it together.
Well, I tried to give the parents the benefit of the doubt, but I think they have gone way too far now. Who ever heard of a woman who was 36 years old having her parents go with her to her IC to get this problem settled? You are right; it is crazy. Your wife is an adult and they are treating her like a child. It is as if she has nothing to say in the matter. I don’t blame her for wanting to move away from them. In fact, their controling ways may be the root of her problem in the MR. With her mother being the way she is.....there is not telling what kind of influence she has had on your wife.
“W is hurt by all of this and she even said to me today that if they don't stop she is going to move away. I told her that I wouldn't let her move away and she said I couldn't stop her and I said you will not move our kids away from me. Her parents will not tell her what they are mad about. My MIL is crazy! She is bi-polar and if she ever gets stressed, there is hell to pay and its usually my W that gets it.”
Let me talk about something here. It is good, as I said before, that your in-laws support
you, but it is not good that they are placing you in the middle of them and your wife. That is a lose-lose situation. Now, I know you did not realize how that above statement you made to your wife sounded. I know the first thing that popped into your mind was the thought of her trying to move off with your kids. But……what
she “heard” from you was you siding with the enemy (her parents). She felt hurt and betrayed by you......who should be protecting her. Yes, it is good when the in-laws support you, and at first I thought that was what they were doing, but now, I think it is plain control. If I'm not getting my stitches confused, didn't they even decide to pull back on the money? That is treating you like children. That is why is is hard working for relatives.
I don’t know if this is the wisest advice in the world or not, but it comes from a gal that suffered at the hands of a MIL that ruled her children and
their families after they married. I truly believe with all my heart that if we would have moved off away from her where she couldn’t call or come by to see us every day, and keep close tabs on our business--that our M would have been much more successful. Her interference caused me very much misery.
In your W’s case, she feels that her own family is down on her instead of giving her support. This is just my opinion but if you
could get a job away in another area where your little family would far enough away from her family bossing you and her like you two were little kids, it would make a huge difference. Right now, I even think she would see you as her Knight in Shinning Armor that has recued her from them and the misery they represent to her. She has already threathened to do it without you, but in her heart she is hoping you will take the bull by the horns and lead the way.
Her family may mean well and don’t realize how controlling they are, but I can testify to the fact it will ruin a good R between a couple. I hope you will not allow that to happen. Maybe it was b/c of her mother (or the rest of her family) that played a part in making her feel like she did toward you and the M and to turn to another person. She is miserable and she wants to be whisked away and ride off into the sunset with her knight so they can live happily ever after. Okay, so we know it isn’t that simple. But, I think that is what she wants never-the-less. The good thing is that she is wanting to make this work
with you. Her feelings are confused and maybe she is numbed by all the other crap going on……but I believe she still loves you very much. I think she is hoping that you will be her hero.
As far your friends that are going through M problems, separating, divorcing, etc. I really hate that, but let me say this regarding being around them and, as you said, “learning from them”. I am afraid for you to do that. The reason is that you have all you can carry on your plate right now and you need to just focus on you and your wife…….not your friends problems as well. I know that that sounds terribly selfish, but it isn’t that you are being selfish, but it is your survival plan. You must put your M first, even before your friends. It is like trying to save a drowning man and he is fighting you and ends up drowning both of you. So, as hard as it may be…….I really think that you and your W do not need to be around all that
negative atmosphere. If you are around your buddy and he is down and out over his wife and M……do you honestly think that is going to pick you up and make you feel better? No, you are going to put his problems on the plate with yours. The two of you will start talking about women and how crazy they are.....you don't need that! If everything else was okay, then fine……that is what you would need to do, but I think you need to explain to your friends that it breaks your heart that this is happening to them, but you have to pour all of your time, energy, attention and work into trying to save
your M first……and the fact is that they need to do the same thing. It is different with your personal friends than it is here on the DB board. B/c even though we care about each other, etc., it is just not the same as with the people you hang out with, etc. I’m not suggesting you never see them again! I just don’t think it would be a good idea to form some type of “group therapy” with each other at this time. All of you need to be in different IC or MC for help b/c you all know each other and the spouses too well and it gets too personal (if you know what I mean). Anyway, that is my take on it and even though I did not explain it very well, I have a strong gut feeling about that. You really need to find new friends at Church or other positive places that takes your mind off of your M problems instead of focusing it on them all the time. Being at Church may cause you to focus on it, but it would be in a growing productive way.
Well, I feel that I am the one that has rambled again. But I hope you see what I’m trying to explain. You are having a difficult time keeping your moods and emotions on an even keel and I think being around others that are in a negative mood and upset is not going to be a good thing. Hope you stay “balanced” with that piece of advice, okay?
Back to your R with your W and her parents. If you work for your FIL, it probably makes him and the MIL feel as though they have a free ticket to tell you two how to live, how to raise your kids, and about everything else. They may be fine people………but fine people fall into the habit of doing this to their adult children. Before she M you, her parents were suppose to protect her. But
now, it is your duty to protect her………even if it is from her own family members. The hardest thing for you to do will be to lay down some boundaries for “them”. Such as, no asking “you” things they should be asking her. Nothing that puts you in the middle. Or else tell them not to be asking her those types of questions...period. I think she feels weak at this time and wants desperately to lean on her H for his strength. There were times when I would be turned inside out and upside down emotionally and all I wanted was to be held and to know that I was secure, safe, protected, and loved. Not judged, not scolded, not questioned, but just held in strong loving arms that would keep me that way as long as I needed.
Well, hope you have a good weekend. Keep doing what works. I hope you will think about what I have said.
Sandi
Dude,
I have no idea how you can do it but the In-laws REALLY need to butt out. They are going to be more trouble in the future.
Also fwiw, my h and I found that in general, we were MUCH better off being around couples who get along b/c what we need are NOT MORE NEGATIVE ROLE MODELS BUT MORE POSITIVE ONES... we all grew up with negative stuff we thought we'd avoid. But in times of stress we revert to what we know. And so, make it something good.
Get some happy couples and hang out with THEM...
(( j ))
It is hard not to take "sides" with our friends. Which in turn, could cause more problems between you and your wife unless it is not a "foursome" type of friendship. But, as it has already been pointed out, you need to be around those who are good role models and who offer hope and encouragement. I have learned from personal experience that when you are with a negative friend that you share a common interest........it does NOT help your feelings at all! It only ends with both of you (or more) pulled down and depressed about the situations. So, I hope you can distant yourself from those who have the same problems as you for now and work at staying positive.
Take care,
Sandi
I cannot echo Sandi2 enough. Please learn from our mistakes. Even couples with horrible M's that are much worse than yours, do not end up making you think you are sooo much better off. In the end, you'll find SOMETHING in your spouse that is also in common with the spouse you don't like of the other couple. It's human nature to find patterns.
Plus it teaches you NOTHING about how to interact lovingly. So find happier couples or go to some marriage encounters --we loved 90% of those and the ones we didn't find helpful were usually too elementary or basic, so they NEVER harmed our R in any way.
In one instance, I'd say a particular workshop was a turning point in our M. It was NOT "for married couples" so much as for individuals, but like DB says, if you change one person in the R, the R changes too. In fact, though it was 20 years ago, I think if things continue to go well at this end, I'd like to go back to that workshop this August, for our 28th anniversary and maybe have a renewal of our vows!!. (Have NOT discussed this with H, but if it happens, I will surely let YOU ALL KNOW....cross your fingers) And if we don't get all the way back there by then, as long as we are on the road, towards a full renewal, I'll shut the heck up and be grateful. I'm already luckier than many. But look at my timeline, PLEASE...don't think this happens fast enough for any of us.
(( j ))
25, Sandi, and SLH,
Thanks for the input. I had a GREAT weekend and it had nothing to do with W or M. My daughter and I went to OKC for her dance competition and we had a blast! It was one of the best times we have had in a long time. We laughed, joked, and had fun all weekend. She also won first overall in her solo and duet performances in her age group 9-11. I was the only dad there and all of her teammates hung out with me and we had a blast. The last night after her comp. we went to a fondue restaurant and had a great meal and just talked. It was a really good ending to a really good weekend!
W told me today that D couldn't stop talking about our weekend all night last night and told her every detail. That made me very happy inside
Not really sure what is going on with W and her family. Her sister has called me to tell me that she doesn't believe the OM is over and I don't know what to think except that I am going to DB and not worry about what I can't control. Its been 5 months now since this mess started and we are still in it with no end in sight. I know a lot of you have been at it way longer, so you know that it is tough. I will stick with it and we have another counseling session tomorrow. Our MC gave us both a book to read called "Boundaries" by Dr. Henry Cloud & Dr. John Townsend. Our homework assignment was the 1st three chapters by tomorrow and I have read two and they are really pretty good. I could see a lot of what is going on in our lives in these first couple of chapters.
I am really just journaling and updating. I feel better and more relaxed, especially last week. But today I have felt very nervous and uneasy and it may have to do with my uncle just died and my W's aunt is about to die. I have to go to his funeral on Wednesday and I don't think my W is going to go. It's a 3.5 hour drive and I am not sure she wants to do that right now, but I am just assuming.
About our friends, it is a really tough spot. They are asking for our help and it is hard to turn your back on them. Sandi, the problem we have is ALL of our friends are having problems and we never do anything together anyway. Its just her and her friends and my close friends live away, so I don't really go out with anyone.
I am rambling now so I will go read instead. Thanks for keeping up with me and I really appreciate the advice.
LonelyRzr
I am soooo glad you had a great weekend with your D. Nothing helps like having a good time to lift your spirits. Your D going back home and telling your W how much fun you were, etc., helps too!
About your uncle and the funeral......I am so sorry that you have to face this unhappy event. I would, however, not make your W feel that she should make an appearance. If she knows about it or asks anything, I would tell her when you plan to go, etc. You might even tell her that if she should decide she wants to go that she is invited to go with you but if she had rather not, you certainly understand. It is kind of hard to know how to "word" some of these things. I just know she probably does not want any type of pressure, but it also may depend on how close she felt to your uncle.
Your friends that are having problems in their M and are asking for your help.......the very best thing you can do for them is to be honest with them and say that you cannot help them b/c you can't even help yourself. You are having to go to a C and you would advise them to do the same. I say this as strongly as I know how......DO NOT GET INVOLVED WITH THEIR PROBLEMS!! You will be sorry.
Take care,
Sandi
Update:
Just got back from the funeral. W didn't go and that was fine. I told her that I would tell everyone she said hi and she was sorry she couldn't come and she appreciated it. The funeral was sad, but it was nice to see all of them. I got to see my sister again and we had a good time together before we left.
My SIL called me on the way home and cried that she is so sorry this is happening and that no matter what happens, I am welcome at all family functions and will be apart of her and her kids' lives. That touched me and told her that I appreciated it but I am not giving up hope. But that no matter what happens I will make sure that I am a part of their lives.
As far as the friends go, I am staying out of everything but my W can't say no and I am not sure I can either, but I am not making myself available right now. She is right in the middle of the new friends problems and comforting her friend. It is ironic that she is comforting her friend who is in the same position I am while W is the same as friend's husband. He wasn't getting enough attention and emotion from her so he had an EA and then dropped the bomb and left. Same sitch as us reversed, however W is seeing it from her friend through her (or my) eyes. Maybe this good? I don't know. She told me last night that she can believe the H isn't even willing to try to work on the marriage? Again, good sign or no?
W told me a couple of times that she had been talking to OM again about him losing his job. I texted him today and asked him to not contact W anymore and he said ok. W called me pissed that I did this. I was probably stupid. 2x4 coming from 25 and Sandi
Before that little mishap, I have been doing really good. I guess the 3 hour drive home today was more than I could handle. Anyway, we have another MC tomorrow so it should be interesting as MC wants to talk about OM. Not sure what is going to happen, but I am not sure if it will be good.
I'll update tomorrow after the MC.
LonelyRzr
Update:
Had the MC and all in all it was good. We both put our feelings on the table and I think for the first time, understood each other. MC was very encouraged by what she saw and told us that. We have "homework" this weekend to spend some quality time alone together. Last night, I spent time with the kids and we had a great time at dinner and the park. Got them to bed and since W was already in bed, just told her good night and went home.
Today after work I am going out with a friend and tomorrow hanging with the kids and maybe doing our "homework". After yesterday, I feel more at peace about the OM situation. It was the first time we talked about it in a safe setting with no agendas or getting mad/yelling, etc. MC said that is the only way to heal is to get it out and talk about it and not keep anything inside. I think we did this yesterday and I think it will be the start of something new for me. Don't know if it will help the M or not, but I do believe it will help me finally start getting over the anger and the hurt of this.
I am keeping up with the GAL, doing things with friends, going to sporting events, working out, playing basketball, etc. Still working on the "acting as if" as I have ups and downs there, but I keep plugging along. Looking forward to the weekend and having some fun.
Hey there
Here's what I've learned about the OW: I hate to say it, but it's my fault she's still around. If I had just ignored it, it would have died on its own. But I questioned and snooped and she's still around. And really, a little defense for me, she does work right next to him. So until she quits (please help me wish this true) she's going to be a part of his life. But she would be a much smaller part if I ignored it.
I think you and I have similarities with our OW and OM: They are both young and stupid. If we both let it go (and believe me, I know how hard it is, how much it hurts) they will go the way of the dodo bird on their own, and much faster than if we keep them alive.
When it comes to that crap, I'm an idiot. So I feel your pain.
We'll do it together.
“My SIL called me on the way home and cried that she is so sorry this is happening and that no matter what happens, I am welcome at all family functions and will be apart of her and her kids' lives. That touched me and told her that I appreciated it but I am not giving up hope. But that no matter what happens I will make sure that I am a part of their lives.”
Be careful! Why is your SIL so ……..involved with
you in this stitch? Anyway, what I meant by “be careful” is that it is not a good idea to make promises to your W’s family/relatives about being around for family functions or part of their lives, etc. B/c if you and W were to D and she remarried, trust me…….she would not want her XH attending family functions. What did SIL mean by you would always be a part of “her” life? Oh, I know she added the boys, but why “her” life? Does she have a husband? If so, why didn't she add his name in the pot? You said something in another post that gave me a funny feeling about her but I didn't say anything. Maybe I am getting to where I'm not as trusting as I once was but she seems like she is showing an awful lot of "concern" for you. Like I said.....be careful.
“Same stitch as us reversed, however W is seeing it from her friend through her (or my) eyes. Maybe this good? I don't know. She told me last night that she can believe the H isn't even willing to try to work on the marriage? Again, good sign or no?”
Nope! B/c she is blind to her own waywardness and does not see it in her own M like she can in her friends. So, don’t get all hoped up about it.
“W told me a couple of times that she had been talking to OM again about him losing his job. I texted him today and asked him to not contact W anymore and he said ok. W called me pissed that I did this. I was probably stupid.”
See what I mean about getting hoped up by what she said about her friends? And, yeah, texting OM was pretty stupid. One thing, you cannot control the OM and he is probably laughing at you thinking that you are showing how desperate you are b/c you can’t control your wife so now you are trying to get
him to cooperate by not contacting her again. If they work side by side……….you KNOW that is not going to happen! Were you surprised to find your W pissed off? That means that the OM went straight to her and told her about your text......unless you were crazy enough to tell her yourself.....but if you didn't then it just go to show he is contacting her.....and which proves my point about her being blind to yours and her stitch compared to the friends. That’s why you can’t get your hopes up over something she says or does. DB rule is don’t believe what they say and only about half of what they do.
Otherwise, GAL and the other things sounds good. But you need to forget about OM not contacting your W b/c I can promise you he is getting
some type of benefit out of that R with her! Otherwise, he would have put a stop to without anyone telling him. He is not an honorable man and therefore don’t expect him to honor your request about staying away from your wife. Besides, if she continues to pursue him……………well.......
How does your W feel about these homework assignments the MC gives you to do?
Sandi
Geez Lazr,
Couple things...Good for you with the daughters activities. REALLY HUGE...she will always remember this...kudos to you for this.
And Glad to see you wrote that no matter what happens in the M, you're still doing some of these assignments b/c
you'll be a better man. Also I liked the Boundaries book more in the later chapters as I felt the religious parts turned H off at the time... but as the book progresses and gives more examples of inappropriate behavior, it helps more. At least for US.
I don't necessarily agree with Sandi about the SIL comments. (I Don't know HER situation.)
But I liked that she said you'd be included and for the record, I said the same thing to my bil when my sister divorced him, but I said it ONE TIME...and later on, when troubles were brewing with my h, I told HIS family that they'd have access to the kids and I'd never block that and I think it helped them. (
Sure made it easier to reconcile...don't burn bridges there). As for the friends with marital troubles, why not suggest DBing?
Seriously, give them names of MC's and books you thought were good and move on to a diff topic. If your w says an off the wall comment that shows NO insight and you are baffled at how blind she is, you might say "you're kidding right? I mean, when you say 'h' won't even give the m a chance and you tell ME this, are you being sarcastic or serious?"
I found that If you say this with a sincerely hurt looking face, it may get through to her and not anger her. I did it to H when he saw something "backwards" and I pointed out, gently, that I assumed he was kidding b/c in the sitch my h was referring to, He was in the SAME position as someone he was criticizing and I asked him if he was teasing me or being serious and he asked me to explain. I replied as non-judgmentally as possible, something like "no offense and I don't want to argue, but I thought you were being sarcastic b/c...well, can you see how
what you are doing looks a lot like the same thing to me & the kids as what 'x' is doing to His family?" And I followed that with a comment showing I did not expect a reply & I left the room before he could answer. He didn't answer or if he did, it was to say something like "No I had not thought of it that way..." He said something about a month ago that suggests the comment got through.
(And at least I called him on it without a fight ensuing...sometimes that has to suffice or you'll feel too cowardly for letting a crazy ass BS "Insight" from THEM pass un-noted).Next--Um, if you wanted to "register" your feelings about w texting OM,
why not tell HER?She probably thinks she was "being honest" with you...but as Sandi pointed out, the OM apparently went and told her so he did the opposite. (Gee, he sure keeps his word. Why didn't he get some balls and say "I love your w and will talk to her all I want" OR, "No, I won't promise that"?? B/C he is a coward and a liar...let HER find out for herself...)
But I have said the opposite of this to others
when OM calls the h and "asks permission" then I say to at least once say "HELL NO!" so he cannot ever claim you knew and didn't care enough about your w to try and fight for her, blah blah blah. But he did NOT ask or call you nor did he admit anything was happening and doesn't she still deny it too? And isn't it possible she's having an EA with him anyhow?
Listen to SLH and learn from her on that one...
FYI I am/we are going to Europe to see d20 perform and our house sitter arrives Monday night. Telling you this so if I don't post for awhile you'll know it's not personal AND ALSO I WANT EVERYONE TO ENVY ME... plus remind you that yes, H will be with me and ALL our children to watch d20 so it'll be the first vacation as a full family in...A LONG TIME...since maybe 2003?
For point of reference, in 2006 for my 25th wedding anniversary, I took MY KIDS to Europe, and had no h. (Was definitely the Best money I ever spent then as it did wonders for PMA AND showed kids that we were still a family and could have a blast with or without h/dad).
So yes, this trip is a big deal on many fronts. I recall posting here about the trip too...seems like so long ago in some ways and so recent in others.
MIL has terminal cancer (h is with her now) and I am praying she remains stable for this time period...As selfish as it sounds I really don't want her to die right before or during this trip so H can enjoy himself without that in the back of his mind. It's already got to be draining him. If you have some extra prayers to send, please send them our way for MIL and thanks.
Sorry for the hijack, take care, and listen to these posters!! You have good ones!
"Ciao!" (yeah, eat your hearts out but hey, we EARNED this...so will you..)
(( j ))
Thanks to whoever has been keeping up with me, but the ride is over. My W is done and so am I.
Man! Ain't that a kick in the head?
I kept coming back to check, hoping I would see where he had come back to post......but nothing. I hate when this happens!!
Sandi,
I am still here. I check the boards every day. I just haven't been posting. I went and reread my earlier posts and I sound like a whiny baby. I am really confused and don't know what to do. My W is done with me I think and I really don't want that, but I have to accept it. She hasn't filed but I think she is close.
I just can't get past my insecurities with this EA and I keep bringing things up or stay mad deep down and it affects my mood. I think I said earlier that I just can't get past myself on this thing and it has happened again. Today was a horrible day. Rainy, miserable and we had a big fight today. She told me she is done. I am not done, but I may have to be.
Again, I appreciate your help and sticking with me. I have been reading everyone else's threads to try to give me perspective and advice while I haven't been posting.
LonelyRzr
So.......I brought you out, huh? Well, good. I think that is the first time I have ever use the red, mad face....
Well, I don't mean to sound stupid when your heart is breaking. But, I'll be honest......I want to
shake you until your teeth rattles. I think you know how you are screwing up, but you just keep doing it anyway! Do you honestly blame her for wanting to give up and leave you when you act like a jerk all the time? You are doing completely opposite from what you NEED to be doing. So, she's having an EA! It could be worse. It
could be a PA....and if you don't straighten up and "man-up", like in the next 60 seconds, you can expect her to do exactly that! Will that make you feel more justified when she has a PA? Will you go around and tell your friends how wrong she has done you and how hard "you" tried to make it work? If you do, then you will lie b/c you haven't tried hard enough.
Why would she want to stay with you? I wouldn't! All you are doing is feeling sorry for yourself. Your ego is hurt! Well, big deal. Get over it and fight to save your marriage!! Do you think going around acting like an over-grown, immature, self-centered little boy is making you more attractive to her? I think not! But that is how you appear to her. Listen to me. I have been in her shoes and I am telling you that if she leaves......IT IS YOUR FAULT b/c you have not applied the DB techniques like you have been told. You said it yourself.....YOU CAN'T GET PAST IT. Okay, well then just chunk your marriage out the door if you can't get over it. Why can't you get over it? B/c you can't see past your own nose, that is why!
I am really disappointed that you could not pull this together. I know an EA is strong and I know it hurts the M badly. I know all of that. I also know that a M can survive an EA! But you are the one that is going to have to change first in order for it to happen. Are you willing to do that? You don't seem to be. You are ready to throw in the towell b/c it is just too hard. Your wife is through with you. Does that mean you are through with her as well?
I really did expect more from you. Somehow, I think deep down you expect more of yourself or you would not still be hanging around reading the board.
Please don't give up the fight for your marriage. It can be saved.
Sandi
I have to agree, it's not over until you determine it's over. She may have the power, but you have time. Keep on fighting Razr, I mean, isn't that what a real Razr would do?
Sandi and Song,
Thanks for the wake up call. I am not a quitter, I just had a really low point I was going through. I woke up today with a new attitude. I will begin DBing again and doing it the right way. I am calling to get a DB Coach appointment as soon as I am finished writing this note.
We have another MC on Wednesday and as of now I think she is going. I am going to lay low and stop pressuring her. She is at the breaking point. Time to back off and give her space. Time to get back to working on me.
ALRIGHT!! I knew you had it in you all the time! That is a wonderful move....to get a DB counselor. I have read several posts from those who only had one or more sessions and felt a world of difference.
I am proud of you. I knew you were not a quitter! You do have what it takes and yes, I understand those low points. Sometimes we do have to have a wake-up call to get up and dust off and go at it again.
Your M is a valuable union and I believe you will work hard to do what you need to do to control your anger and to try to get past her EA. Ask the DB coach how to do that and how you are to stop from throwing that in your W's face. Every time you get mad at her and bring up the EA, you lose the ground that has been gained. Try to remember that. What happened can't be undone and as I said before....it could get worse if she is continually pushed in the wrong direction.
But, you know what? I have seen a few times when things could take a big turn around. I don't say that to "set you up" for disappointment, but hopefully to encourage you to hang in there.
Take care,
Sandi
I signed up for DB coaching just now. Does anyone out there have any recommendations on the coach?
I liked Jody.
Hang in there. When you say things to upset her or bring up her mistakes, of course she's going to say it's over. Who wants to be around someone who's going to point out their flaws, their mistakes?
So, stop it. That EA is probably more over than you realize. She probably has as much connection to it as you do to Sandi2 or me, which is to say, her relationship with that person is one of support, like we support you.
So, stop it. Let it go.
SLH,
I'm glad to hear from you again! I am about to leave for our MC session today and I am really nervous about the outcome. I am afraid she finished like she said this weekend. She hasn't called me or texted me like normal and to my credit I haven't either as much. I have sent some asking how she is doing, ect. But nothing at all today.
I have paid for my 3 sessions with a coach, I just haven't called to schedule yet. I think I do so later today.
How are things going with you? Your thread locked up and I didn't know how to get in touch with you. Hope you are doing better than me!
LonelyRzr
Lonely,
You are doing great. Remember, when you say things that remind her of her screw ups or mistakes, she's going to say things like that. Again, who wants to be around the person that is going to point that crap out to them? So to help with that, stop bringing it up. That EA, if it's even still viable will die. Relationships based on lying and deceit don't have the umph to make it. And she had to lie to you and go behind your back. It's a relationship started on dishonesty--let it go. It will die if it hasn't already.
In the meantime, just be the best spouse you can be. Be the guy everyone women will tell your W, "You're crazy to leave him. But by the way, if you do, can I have his number?"
Work on you, you're doing great. Get out of your head.
Yeah Razr!
Way to get back on that horse that threw you. I've worked with Leni and Chuck and they are both very good. Leni is like talking to your wise Aunt that gives you great practical advice, and Chuck is a real upbeat motivator that will really help with getting your PMA back in check. I think all the coaches have a certain area of strength, if neither of these sound like what you need, call the DB center and tell them what areas you are looking to work on and I'm sure they will refer you to the right person. They did for me, twice.
SLH,
How are you doing? Haven't heard from you in a while about your sitch?
Mine is about the same. I still haven't called to make my appointment with the coach yet, but will do so this week. I keep putting it off for some reason? I have already paid for it, but just haven't set it up. I actually went on a small date with W tonight. Our counselor said that we need to start doing this and start off small. So I asked her to go play mini-golf after dinner with the kids. We let the kids go next door and we went to play. It was light and fun, but I had a really good fun time with her. And she told me that she had fun and glad I went too.
I definitely want more, but this is a good start. Also, I have been doing a VERY good job of not pursuing and not being needy. I also have been being in a better mood and more pleasant. The one area where I have fallen off is my weight. I seem to be gaining it back. I haven't been working out like I did at first and I talked to my doctor friend and he said the AD that I am on are definitely a factor. He said that Celexa can and will cause you to gain weight especially if you are not being disciplined and I don't think I have been lately.
I have planned the first vacation ever without my W. Its just me and the kids and we are going cruising in July! They have never been and this will be the first one for me since my honeymoon almost 14 years ago. We are all very excited. It is pretty bittersweet for me, b/c I would love nothing more than for her to be with us but I am excited about doing this with my kids.
Oh well, things overall are going pretty good. We have MC again on Wednesday and that is usually good. Also, I need to get the DB coach going this week.
LonelyRzr
Haven't posted in about a week, but here it goes. I had an awesome memorial day weekend with the kidos. We went to my sister's cabin for the weekend and hung out with her family. We rode 4 wheelers, cooked out, had a fish fry, played games, ect. We had a great time with family and I will always remember it.
Nothing new on my sitch, still going to MC and have one tomorrow. We will see what that brings.
Hope everyone's holiday weekend was good and I will try to get caught up on everything now that I am back to civilization
hey lonely
I just got back from vaca! Much needed.
Moved back home a couple of days before the vacation. H stayed there but I didn't ask what he was going to do when I got home from vacation. He is still there, said we were playing house because of the economy. I left the house to relax and breathe.
He sent an email that explained he was sorry about everything, and that he would "live like a gypsy". He asked me about it today when I was talking to him because he was surprised that I was "talking to him after that email." I said what email? I acted as if I never received it. And not that I'm really crazy about lying about it but I figured if I "didn't get the email" then he never "said" he was going to move out and therefore doesn't have to right now.
We'll see.
All crazy, all the time!
SLH,
Welcome back! Hang in there and glad to see you are back home. Hopefully, your little not getting that email will work for a while and you guys can work on M. Keep up the fight and never give up! That is what I am trying to do, although I am not always good at it.
We had a tough MC today. Our C is very good and compassionate and very pro-M. She is really pulling for "us" and trying to keep the "hope" alive. I am still reading books, working on getting me right. Have to get better on the weight, but it is slowly but surely coming.
Well the little fib helped but we are still having our issues.
I just need to learn to table everything and walk away and act as if....but you know it's hard. It sucks really.
I wish my H would go to MC. You are very fortunate.
As unfortunate as we all are to be here and in this whole mess, I know that I am fortunate because she is willing to go to MC and at least act like she is willing to try. Not sure her heart is in it now, but at least she is going.
She had surgery again on her mouth today and I took care of her. The kids and I had fun tonight while she slept and then I just left to come to my place to do laundry. Looking forward to next week and the big D. That is the same week the W is taking to kids to our family vacation spot without me, but I will be GALing my butt off. I am staying in a nice hotel all week and will relax and do me things. Hopefully I can hook up with Kev and Jag and go to dinner one night. It will be nice to put a face to the some of the people I keep up with here.
Looking forward to the big D?????? What does that mean?
opps, that can mean different things here
Heading to Dallas next week while W and kids are going on a trip.
Ohhh, I see. Don't scare me like that!
I am back from mini vacation. Going to pick up my kids and W at the airport in about an hour. I spent a week doing nothing but relaxing, playing golf, hanging out with family and reading. I also met up with Kevin4Dallas for dinner and we had a good time.
I spent a lot of time thinking on my situation while they were gone and I am rejuvenated in many ways but just as confused in others. I am still hurt by the betrayal of trust with the EA/ possible PA, but am still willing to move past it. It is very hard to do but I am getting there. I know that I am fortunate that my W is willing to go to MC together and does spend some time with me. Maybe this week apart of zero contact and really almost zero communication will help? Who knows. We have another MC tomorrow and I guess I will see where things stand. It has been over 6 months since the bomb dropped and anything physical and over 3 months since we have been separated. I know that is a short time compared to a lot of people on here, but it is so hard.
I just wanted to post a small update since it had been awhile and to see if anyone had any words of wisdom for me?
Hey there,
I enjoyed meeting you. How are things going now? Any progress since you have been back? I know its hard. Keep hanging in there.
What are you doing for yourself now that you are back?
Kevin
Kev,
I enjoyed our night out too. I have been away from the board for a while, but to answer you question, things couldn't be worse. We have gone backwards and I believe it is now over. She told me today that it was over and she couldn't live like this anymore. I am hoping it was the stress and her not feeling well, but I don't think my hoping will help. I know that I have pushed her to this. We went to MC today and during the session she broke down and said she couldn't do this anymore there also. But things got a little better and she said at the end that she wanted to continue with our MC next week.
Then when she got home, D went into a fit and got her very stressed out and then she called and yelled at me. Told me that she couldn't do this. I then went home to get the kids and she again said that she couldn't do this. I asked her if she wanted a D and she said no, but there was no other choice.
I really don't know what to do. Going dark is not going to help here, I did that and she was really wanting me to pursue and try to make things in the R better (told C that today) and that I wasn't doing that? I am afraid it is too late. Someone please help!
Hey LR1,
I'm sorry things are not going as you had hoped. Fill us in since this last post. I will post more being as how it has almost been a month. I know there are new developments although not good ones.
Kevin
It has been a while since I have posted and a lot has happened, some good, some bad. I went on a wonderful vacation with my kids and we had an unforgettable time together. That has definitely been the highlight of this year for sure! When I got back, I moved out of my dad's house and moved into an apartment. Living with my dad was fine but I didn't feel good about myself by doing it. I needed my own place so i made the decision to leave there and rent an apartment. It was when I moved into the apartment that things became more real for me. All along while living with my dad, I thought, subconsciously almost, that this was temporary and that it wouldn't last. Once I signed the lease (year) it instantly became more real and more finalized.
Pretty much most of June was bad. I was a mess and very up and down emotionally and wasn't GAL, acting as if or anything productive. I just was feeling sorry for myself and worried about me. As you can imagine, this was not good for me or the marriage. This finally came to a head on Father's day and she was done and it was over according to her.
I finally snapped out of it on that Tuesday after all heck broke loose on Sunday. I made up my mind that I wasn't going to let this get me down and that I was going to fight for my marriage, but more importantly was going to fight for myself. We went to MC the next day and she had softened a bit and we continued to work at this. I left with the kids on July 4 and took them on their first cruise and we got back on 7/11. I have continued being good, nice, lovingly detached, working on me ever since Father's day.
W continues to acknowledge the changes in me to our MC and me. She is still very confused and not ready to commit back to me. She still says that she can't make herself love me if its not there.
Yesterday was our 14th anniversary and I got her the prettiest flowers ever and then we went out to dinner last night to celebrate. The night started out ify but progressed nicely and we had a great dinner and great conversation. We exchanged cards and she was visibly moved by the card I got her. It was probably too much, but it is definitely how I feel and I think at least by how she reacted, she liked it. On the drive home, I told her that I really hope she knows how true that card is and how much I care for her. She told me that she knew, but that she can't make herself feel what she doesn't feel. She then went into talking about R and I tried to stop and change subjects but she kept on talking. Anyway, we didn't fight, but it put a damper on a good night for us. It also made me realize that she is probably done. I hope not, but that is my overwhelming feeling.
Today, I have pretty down all day. But I am continuing to be nice and caring to W. I just need some support.
Thanks,
LR1
LR1,
There are good things here and bad things. The good things first. Your W IMO still seems to be at odds. The fact that she celebrated the anniversary with you is huge. Whether or not she is saying she can't make herself love you, she still has feelings or she would not have celebrated that with you. I would not write it off yet.
Now the bad, your W wants you to pursue her you said last month. However, DBing says not to do that. GAL should make you more attractive to her. Being strong and independent should be a real plus in your favor.
Are you cheerful when you are around her? I think if she wants to talk about the R, then let her. Let her get it off her chest. It doesn't mean you have to agree inside with her. But let her talk about it.
To some extent, validate her feelings about some things. Don't validate a D. But if she points out certain things that made her or make her unhappy, agree with her and work to change those things whatever they may be.
Are you getting a life now? If so, what does that entail? How are you doing now that you are off the meds? Do you need to go back on them or are you hanging in there emotionally ok? Are you able to focus at work? I remember why you got off them. I know there are others that work well also that don't cause the same problem as why you got off them.
I think you are actually in a better position than you think. As far as I can tell, she hasn't filed yet right? That is always a good position to be in. And even if she does, it can still take a long time and plenty can change during that.
She may be saying it is over, but her actions reflect otherwise IMO.
I'm glad you and your kids had a good vacation. Those will always be special for them.
Are you working out and still playing golf?
It is easy to feel sorry for yourself in this type of situation. I don't know many people that don't at some point in this process. I would still say do not give up and do not lose hope. You still have time on your side. The fact that she is seeing changes in you is only to your benefit. Keep them up.
Keep working on you and focusing on being the absolute bed dad you can. She will see all of this.
I am so amazed that she went out with you for your anniversary. That is so great. I could only wish to be that lucky as mine is next Sunday and there is no way my W will have anything to do with ours. It says that your W doesn't completely resent you.
I will post more later. I have to get ready to head on out and get my kids.
Kevin
Kev,
I am very impressed with the way you have changed in the past few months. I know the people on this thread keep criticizing you for not changing, so I am making a point of coming by and saying that I hear a completely changed Kevin when I read your posts. I was particularly impressed with the advice that you gave Orich concerning his sitch. You have really come a long way in a short time.
Thanks Kev,
I just finished playing a round of golf. My apartment complex has a golf course on it so I can play whenever I want. I met a nice man that I played with and then the complex was having a cookout so I went and hung out and met a few people.
I am working out, or should I say just started back up:) I really appreciate what you are saying about everything. I definitely was NOT cheerful around her in June but after Fathers Day, I have been a new man everywhere and especially around her and she has noticed.
I am still off the meds and I really feel great minus today. I am also not having to take sleeping pills anymore to sleep. I did take one last night but that is the first time since probably June 25. So I think that is going a lot better for me. As far as getting a life, I am not sure how great at that I am doing outside of my family, but I am doing a lot with my kids and have played some golf, but mainly have been getting my apartment together. My W seems to be really impressed with what I have done with the apartment and has even helped me pick out a few things, but I have mainly done it myself.
And as far as her saying its over, she hasn't said that in those words. Just little things like this is wearing her out and she doesn't know what to do. Those were my words in thinking she is done. I told her last night that I haven't given up and had she, and her answer was "Im trying not to". I don't know what she is thinking and sometimes my mind gets the best of me. I know I can't change her so i am not sure why I stress over it, but I guess its just human nature.
I REALLY appreciate you talking things through with me. I need this, I don't really have anyone here to talk to about anything so I try to get that here. Thank you again!
LR1
Thank you Sara,
That means a lot to me. I feel like I am making changes. I backslide at times. But over all I feel like I am farther ahead mentally and emotionally than I used to be.
LR1,
Thats awesome that you have a golf course part of your complex. That helps out. I am also glad that I was able to pick up that your W is not done then. That is good to hear. You are right in that you can't control her. All you can do is be the best you can be and let the rest fall where they may. Have faith in God and he can fix this for you if you do your part.
I'm glad to see you getting involved socially to like the cook out. You might also try going to some classes at the church you attend and go to meetup.com and join some social groups there. There are good resources out there to be part of. Any time you are in Dallas you are more than welcomed to let me know and we can get together. FaithfulH will be here soon and we can all 3 get together. We are going to start a prayer group that meets for dinner and prayers once a month once he gets down here and if you can get away and want to come, you are always welcomed.
I am glad you don't need the meds anymore. Thats a sign of very good progress.
Good job with doing up the apartment and its great that she even liked it. She sees you stepping up in that area. I think overall just stay out of depression mode, make some friends and keep doing what you are doing on top of being cheerful around her at all times and you will come out of this with your W back in your arms.
Kevin
I REALLY appreciate you talking things through with me. I need this, I don't really have anyone here to talk to about anything so I try to get that here. Thank you again!
Its not a problem. We all need support here. I am happy to support and help any way I can.
Kevin
Try to post at least once a day so we can keep up with what is going on and give the best advice we can each day to you.
Kevin
What do you have planned for the weekend? Anything fun?
Kevin
Yeah, the kids are staying with me this weekend. My D has a bball tournament all day tomorrow and Sunday and then we are having a swimming party for the team afterwards on Sunday at our home.
Sounds like a great weekend. Make the most of it with your kids. Laugh and play with them. I'm looking forward to hearing how it goes.
Keep going to God for help with your M. He won't let you down if you pray with faith and stay faithful to him and don't doubt him. Remember, it is not in our timing but his. I have to remember that to.
Kevin
Thanks Kev,
I just picked up my son and we are gonna play guitar hero until my D's bball practice is over. You hang in there today, I know you have had a tough one. Yesterday was mine.
I am hanging in there. Tell me how your Saturday was today?
Kevin
How is the weekend going?
Kevin
Weekend was pretty much a disaster. I think my W is done, all of her words and actions point to that. Also, I don't believe the OM is out of the picture as I thought and hoped. We have MC on Wednesday and I fully expect that to be the last one that she will be willing to do to as far as work on marriage goes.
I'm sorry to hear that. Try and not talk about OM to her. Let that fantasy run its course. In the mean time be the most awesome dad you can be and focus in on your hobbies that you have been doing. How is the apartment looking now? Are you having your kids put in some ideas for it? DavidsWife suggested that one to me and the kids love it.
Don't lose hope. You are probably in for a bit of a stretch. I still say the fact that she went to dinner with you for the anniversary was a positive sign.
Are there any arguements going on? Are you giving her all of her space? If this might be the last MC session, go in their calm and cool and project confidence and cheerfulness the best you can. In other words, don't get into a heated discussion with her. Give her a reason to want to keep going and don't help in her decision to quit by being confrontational.
Kevin
Also make sure to validate your W's feelings in the MC session. Not about D and not about OM. But about feelings she may have of things you need to work on or things you may have done that she is upset about.
Try at the your best possible to not show any frusturation or disbelief. That may not be easy, but try anyways.
Kevin
"Weekend was pretty much a disaster. I think my W is done, all of her words and actions point to that. Also, I don't believe the OM is out of the picture as I thought and hoped."
So what happened and why don't you think OM is out?
I guess I think it was a disaster b/c W is saying that she is through and can't take the limbo any longer. I hate the limbo too, but I am willing to wait and continue to try to rebuild things. She told me that she wants to want to try and has wanted to get it back, but hasn't.
I could not sleep Friday night and I got up about 5am and looked at phone records and saw she had been talking and texting him again. Then I started going crazy and found invoice where OM paid for phone for W while she was on a trip and they talked almost 6 hours in a week.
This is crazy what all of us are having to endure. I know that my actions brought alot of this on, but dang this is just hard to believe this is happening. Sorry to rant!
Feel free to rant. Better to rant here than at your W.
Yes it is crazy, and yes we brought most of it on ourselves. Probably the best thing for you to do is to not look at any phone records. I have to stop doing that to. It doesn't do anything other than drive you further insane. You already know there is an OM. Let it go unless you want to confront him or her or both about the situation. I would recommend you talk to Puppy first before doing so or FaithfulH. FaithfulH is posting on Orich's thread so you can certainly leave him a note on that thread if you want him to help advise you.
Are you part of a gym? I only ask because I am looking at joining one. I find the more I work out, the better mentally I feel.
Kevin
I am not part of a gym, but my apartment complex has a very nice workout area and am going to start using that 3-4 times per week. I agree that working out helps you feel better and I need that desperately.
You are also right about checking the records and I went for over a month without even thinking about it, but then with Friday and Saturdays events, I became weak and looked and then got pissed and looked more. I haven't looked since then and I am going to start over on not looking at things.
We had a very hard MC today. It was very back and forth and lots of crying and sadness. Basically W said that her mind is telling her to stay but her heart/feelings are telling to quit. C said this is a good thing in that her mind is telling her to stay? I don't know, it seems very bad to me overall. After all of that, C said that since we are both willing to try, lets say for the next three months, there are no questions about who's trying or if we are going to try, and get down and dirty. Me pursue her, her pursue me, do the things we are asked to do in counseling, ect. W agreed to this, albeit reluctantly, but she did agree. C said that at the end of three months if there is no progress or backwards, then we might want to look at stopping this, but she believes if we both do this, we will see improvement? I don't know, maybe. I am going to continue to work on me and marriage and I hope that W will do so also. After the session was over, W didn't want to talk to me in the parking lot and has been very short with me when we talked for a minute later in the day.
Not sure what all of this means, but it doesn't change anything for me as far as me trying to better myself. If anyone would like to jump in here with opinions, advice, ect. I would greatly appreciate it!
I think that is your W is willing to give it a go for the 3 months, that is good. Just leave her alone for now until the coldness dies down some and do what the C suggests. Also, yes. Keep working on bettering yourself. That will only make you more attractive to her in the long run.
It appears to me that there is an internal struggle going on with your W. That is good. That means there is still hope. Pray that the good takes over within her.
Kevin
I think the bad won. She opted not to go to our first MC session after the 3 month commitment. I went and C is not as hopeful now as she once was, but she told me not to give up. W is supposedly going by herself on Thu, but who knows? My friend who is also going through this told me today that he looked at his W's phone and my W texted her that "we mutually decided it was over????!!" I guess it may be. Nothing is getting through to her, she is falling further and further away from me. I can't believe that the love is this far gone. I went and read some old cards she wrote me and it is crazy to think so much has changed.
Enough journaling, back to work
These are current circumstances. My W was telling someone on the phone that we are divorced and have been for a while. D11 over heard her saying it to someone and told me. I was like what?? There is not even a D pending since it was dismissed.
Who knows what goes on in their minds. But we have to be patient and give it time and work on us in the mean time. They won't stay like this forever. It is a temporary thing, but who knows for how long. Just gotta keep the faith. Be a stander. Stand in the gap for your prodigal spouse and your family.
Kevin
Have you even started trying to detach? I get the feeling that you're giving off a really needy vibe. She knows you want the M and likewise you have to understand that she doesn't.
So detach and get your feelings out if it as best you can. Only by detaching can you give her the space she needs.
I have started trying to detach, but obviously haven't done a good job of it yet. I am sure that I am giving off the needy vibe. I will continue to work on it, but I am just having the hardest time with it. I can't get her off my mind, can't get my kids off my mind, its just very hard.
Another update: On Wed I told her that I didn't want D to play on the bball team that OM coaches anymore. MC has been saying this needed to happen and in the last session W agreed to it but said that it would not change our sitch. I agree, but it would definitely end the communication between them in the name of bball instead of what I really believe it to be. After we agreed that this needed to happen, she texted me its over and she was telling MC the next day (thu) as she went to her for IC. I later found out that day that she had told this to two of our mutual friends as well, so I am thinking it is really done. After her IC yesterday, I email C and ask if it was as bad as I thought and her response was "no, W scheduled another MC session next week, hang in there" WTH, I am glad that she scheduled this, but don't understand?
Update on the weekend. Had big family wedding this weekend and had formal things to do Thu, Fri, and Sat nights. It was more of the same, W pretty much ignored me and was very cold. On Thur night, I was nice and friendly to her but hung out with friends at the party. Fri night was different at the rehearsal dinner which was formal and we sat together and I didn't have a chance to go out and be with other people. At the wedding Sat night, kind of the same deal. I did go out and have fun with friends but also had to be with W alot which was difficult due to her attitude. I am starting to wonder at times why I am even doing this and trying to save the marriage. Her attitude and behaviors toward me are awful and then she expects me to take it and be nice to her? I do try to do that, but sometimes I get fed up! Enough of the rant, I would appreciate some feedback, advice or something. Please!
I would suggest posting on other people's threads. They will come post on yours.
Kevin
This is the first time I've been able to find your thread Lr1.
I'll try to read the thread so I can say something helpful, other than hang in there. I have been thru the family wedding things in rough times and it MAY sink in more than you realize, but she can't/won't show it now. Guilt, if any, will be aimed outward towards you for now. Doesn't mean nothing happened inwardly but do not look for signs now. She's in a deep denial at this time of year (weddings) b/c of the guilt associated with ending an intact family so she will vilify you to justify her actions. The angrier you get, the easier it'll be for her to justify. Do not fuel her anger. But since I don't know your sitch, I cannot comment more b/c I don't know what a 180 would be for you.
That's it for now, but check out Citygirl's thread and ask her for some advice, and Was2sad is a GREAT resource with a lot of experience as is iansofaraway.
(SP?)
J-
WOOHOO!!!
25 is here. LR1. She is a gift. She might suggest you read Blue Like Jazz. I am going to pick it up this week myself. Nothing is hopeless. DB, DB, DB. And listen to 25 and act on it.
Kevin
Also read FaithfulH's thread. Another great inspiration.
Kevin