ok guys just got assaulted with what seems like WW3 what do you suggest i do. i have an email that i have drafted because the talking is now out of the question. i will post the entire encounter and let me know what you think.
This is the message that OM just sent out to the whole Acro troupe:
Sorry since two people teamed up to keep My W and OM from playing i can't even be at the gym while she is there. she works on fridays and its raining....looks like i am out. see you sunday.
This is the message that (friend) just sent out to the whole Acro troupe:
"Hi all, since OM put it out there I'll clear the air. W's husband of 7 years, Rysinmn, filed a complaint with the military because of the affair she told him was on going between her and OM. I didn't know he was filing it nor did I have ANYTHING to do with it. He told me days after the fact. All the "evidence" that Rysinmn gave to the military was the numerous emails & text messages between OM and his wife, both while he was deployed & after his return. Based on the initial review of evidence the Military issued a no contact order to OM. Rysinmn's W is free to attend acro anytime. OM would need to excuse himself if she is in attendance. So if someone wants to say that Rysinmn "conspired" to keep his WIFE & her lover apart then rightly so. He was trying fight for his marriage & the woman he loves. This is what a man in love does. Bottom line: Actions have consequences. To blame others for the consequence your own choices is immaturity."
W recieved that email from someone and i know who it was because she is not on the text distro list. and this is what she sent to me.
I want to thank you, again, for sharing so much of our personal information with the world. I just dont even know what to say anymore. This message says that you still talk to Angel about what is going on between us, that you talked to her after you requested the no contact order. This is exactly why I say I can live like this. For me, this is the ultimate betrayal. Its fine if you think I deserve it, but then tell me that to my face. I just dont know what to say anymore.
M-How did you hear about this I am at a loss. I don't know what to say. So don't blame me. This has nothing to do with me.
W-Where did she get all of this information, Rysinmn? Please dont play games with me.
M-From OM, there is no games. she knows everything because that guy shared everything with her until the day the no contact went into play then he dropped her friendship. That is why she contacted me in the begining worried about you. is that how the convo went down or is there more. And don't play with me where did you get that info to come at me so blindsided.
W-I am so done with all of this and everyone. I am in control of my life and no one else. I am done with people trying to control me, including you and the military and the whole [censored] world. Either drop the no contact order and step out of my life long enough for me to gain some clarity, or I am filing for divorce. I am sorry it has come to this, I never wanted it to be like this between us, but whether you want to admit this or not you got Angel involved in this whole situation and this is the result. Make your choice because I am not putting up with this anymore and not letting anyone influence my life any longer.
now this is what i am going to send to her please tell me what you think. I am completely over this.
M- Oh (friend) knew about me and you from OM long before I knew about you and OM. But you are so blinded that you can't see the truth. So go ahead and blame me for everything, but that man is playing you for a fool and there is nothing anyone else can do or say to make you see the truth. I hope you know what he has been doing since the NC but that is neither here nor there. But if you ever want the truth all you have to do is ask. there are plenty of emails and text messages floating about that you would be tickled pink to read.
You have made this bed and you can sleep in it W. I am not angry with you nor am I resentful of you anymore. Actually I feel bad for you. I see the person you have become and I feel bad. To me you were once a good, sweet, amazing person. But you are right in stating that you are not that person anymore. I have continued to try and be here to support you if you needed it, but all you have done is blame me for everything ignoring the fact that of your actions. I tried to hold onto trust and faith in us for far too long but trust is based on actions that are consistent.
I don't trust you because you have not been consistent and have been lying to me this entire time. In fact I trust you to continue doing the same thing, because you have been lying to me consistently - that's what i can trust. To be able to trust, you have to build trust. Sure I can trust you blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?
I no longer want your cell phone records. I don't want to look at your cell phone text messages and call history, I don't want your email or facebook password, I don't want your voicemail passwords. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need. I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything anymore, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.
From now on I'm moving forward to better myself and make myself happy, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't try to control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore; and you already know that if you're with OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that anymore i'm worth more than you are giving me. If you really want to be with OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that; and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am, and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to myself and that's all that matters - I see that now. If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had a lot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are, what you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for far too long.
I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me. Look, I'm done; i'm not lifting another finger to either do or undo any of the things I've done to try to save this marriage. I've already wasted far too much time on this and I need to start living my life, whatever that holds. I really don't care who you see or you don't see anymore, because you're not with me I was fired as your husband the moment you started the affair. If you ever decide you want to be with me, well . . . my standards and boundaries are pretty clear, aren't they, maybe one day maybe. But You're a grown woman -- go do as you wish. This isn't working for me any more, and I deserve better than this.
Rys -
I'm new to your sitch so excuse me if this isn't accurate but just reading this post ... You sound very angry. Sure you told W you were happy and not resentful but it doesn't sound that way. You could have easily said in a few short sentences what you wrote over and over. Sorry if this comes off as a 2x4 but if I were in an A with OM that message would not come off to me as someone who was moving forward.
I think right now you should sit back. If she responds to that I would leave it be for now and not say anything. I am not a vet though so let's see what they have to say.
i have not sent it yet and yes i am angry. but i am ready to move on.
NO. Good lord, no.
95% too much. "Letting them go" only works if YOU initiate it. You're still reacting to HER.
"I'm sorry you feel that way. Everything I've done, I've done to try to save our marriage. I stand by my actions."
That -- or something similar -- is ALL you should say.
Rysin, been reading your sitch for a while and never knew what to say until now.
Thank you for serving our country and I am truly sorry for your pain. Do not send that letter.
Ok I will not send that. She just sent me an email saying that if I don't lift the NC order she is going to file for D. And then she sent another after I didn't respond that said let me know your decision. I don't plan on responding.
ok guys just got assaulted with what seems like WW3 what do you suggest i do. i have an email that i have drafted because the talking is now out of the question. i will post the entire encounter and let me know what you think.
This is the message that OM just sent out to the whole Acro troupe:
Sorry since two people teamed up to keep My W and OM from playing i can't even be at the gym while she is there. she works on fridays and its raining....looks like i am out. see you sunday.
This is the message that (friend) just sent out to the whole Acro troupe:
"Hi all, since OM put it out there I'll clear the air. W's husband of 7 years, Rysinmn, filed a complaint with the military because of the affair she told him was on going between her and OM. I didn't know he was filing it nor did I have ANYTHING to do with it. He told me days after the fact. All the "evidence" that Rysinmn gave to the military was the numerous emails & text messages between OM and his wife, both while he was deployed & after his return. Based on the initial review of evidence the Military issued a no contact order to OM. Rysinmn's W is free to attend acro anytime. OM would need to excuse himself if she is in attendance. So if someone wants to say that Rysinmn "conspired" to keep his WIFE & her lover apart then rightly so. He was trying fight for his marriage & the woman he loves. This is what a man in love does. Bottom line: Actions have consequences. To blame others for the consequence your own choices is immaturity."
No WAS wants to hear a long drawn out speech. What they respond to is actions and pain.
W recieved that email from someone and i know who it was because she is not on the text distro list. and this is what she sent to me.
I want to thank you, again, for sharing so much of our personal information with the world. I just dont even know what to say anymore. This message says that you still talk to Angel about what is going on between us, that you talked to her after you requested the no contact order. This is exactly why I say I can live like this. For me, this is the ultimate betrayal. Its fine if you think I deserve it, but then tell me that to my face. I just dont know what to say anymore.
M-How did you hear about this I am at a loss. I don't know what to say. So don't blame me. This has nothing to do with me.
W-Where did she get all of this information, Rysinmn? Please dont play games with me.
M-From OM, there is no games. she knows everything because that guy shared everything with her until the day the no contact went into play then he dropped her friendship. That is why she contacted me in the begining worried about you. is that how the convo went down or is there more. And don't play with me where did you get that info to come at me so blindsided.
He was there for the free sex, and once he had to worry about carrying her he dropped it like a hot potatoe.
W-I am so done with all of this and everyone. I am in control of my life and no one else. I am done with people trying to control me, including you and the military and the whole [censored] world. Either drop the no contact order and step out of my life long enough for me to gain some clarity, or I am filing for divorce. I am sorry it has come to this, I never wanted it to be like this between us, but whether you want to admit this or not you got Angel involved in this whole situation and this is the result. Make your choice because I am not putting up with this anymore and not letting anyone influence my life any longer.
now this is what i am going to send to her please tell me what you think. I am completely over this.
You tell her your not putting up with it any longer by not putting up with it any longer. There is really nothing to say.
M- Oh (friend) knew about me and you from OM long before I knew about you and OM. But you are so blinded that you can't see the truth. So go ahead and blame me for everything, but that man is playing you for a fool and there is nothing anyone else can do or say to make you see the truth. I hope you know what he has been doing since the NC but that is neither here nor there. But if you ever want the truth all you have to do is ask. there are plenty of emails and text messages floating about that you would be tickled pink to read.
you don't have to say all of this.
You have made this bed and you can sleep in it W. I am not angry with you nor am I resentful of you anymore. Actually I feel bad for you. I see the person you have become and I feel bad. To me you were once a good, sweet, amazing person. But you are right in stating that you are not that person anymore. I have continued to try and be here to support you if you needed it, but all you have done is blame me for everything ignoring the fact that of your actions. I tried to hold onto trust and faith in us for far too long but trust is based on actions that are consistent.
What you don't realize is she HAS BEEN CONSISTENT. She consistently betrays you and lies to your face. She consistently undermines you and goes behind your back. She has been consistent for a long time and you think this consistency is going to stop over night? I wouldn't even worry about it.
I don't trust you because you have not been consistent and have been lying to me this entire time. In fact I trust you to continue doing the same thing, because you have been lying to me consistently - that's what i can trust. To be able to trust, you have to build trust. Sure I can trust you blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?
Like I said, she HAS BEEN CONSISTENT. She consistently lies to you and cheats on you in various ways.
I no longer want your cell phone records. I don't want to look at your cell phone text messages and call history, I don't want your email or facebook password, I don't want your voicemail passwords. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need. I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything anymore, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.
Just stop looking and use that time on yourself.
From now on I'm moving forward to better myself and make myself happy, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't try to control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore; and you already know that if you're with OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that anymore i'm worth more than you are giving me. If you really want to be with OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that; and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am, and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to myself and that's all that matters - I see that now. If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had a lot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are, what you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for far too long.
You don't have to tell her this even. Move on and enjoy your life. She chose what she is doing over you. There is nothing to fight and nothing to tell her. She won't "get it" until you have well moved on, happy and likely enjoying life with a new lady who fully appreciates the man that you are.
I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me. Look, I'm done; i'm not lifting another finger to either do or undo any of the things I've done to try to save this marriage. I've already wasted far too much time on this and I need to start living my life, whatever that holds. I really don't care who you see or you don't see anymore, because you're not with me I was fired as your husband the moment you started the affair. If you ever decide you want to be with me, well . . . my standards and boundaries are pretty clear, aren't they, maybe one day maybe. But You're a grown woman -- go do as you wish. This isn't working for me any more, and I deserve better than this.
Show her your standards, don't have to tell her. You don't keep taking care of friends who don't take care of you. It's pretty simple.
These "wives" are kinda like long term girlfriends who decided they aren't coming home any more, and sleeping with a nother guy and going over there all the time, wasting your money, setting you up to be robbed, etc. You gotta let them go.
Despite how you feel right now, this isn't urgent.
I LOL'd when I read this one line from W:
For me, this is the ultimate betrayal.
I just LOL'd again, copying and pasting that. I shouldn't have to tell you why I LOL'd. The "ultimate" betrayal, my big ol' white butt ...
Rysin, I haven't had much sleep the past few nights, so I'm not comfortable writing too much to you because it might not be coherent (or wise). I'll also be hit-or-miss tomorrow, but with what's going on in your sitch, I'll be proactive about checking for any updates from you.
Meanwhile, I want you to understand something: you can't fix your M in a day. But you can sure as hell destroy it in one.
SIT STILL RIGHT NOW. If you respond to your W in ANY way - and I'm not convinced you SHOULD until you've regained your center - then respond the way Starsky pitched. No more. No less.
I know you won't understand it when I say this to you, but I'm actually glad your sitch has hit this point. It's better than the limbo you've been in. Your W just fired a shot, and it gives you an opportunity to truly rise and shine. You can handle this like you did the other day (getting sucked into a R talk and falling for W's bullsh!t, hook, line and sinker, which gave/gives her MORE power). Or you can learn from your mistake - which you assured us you did a day or two ago - and kick back and let W twist in the wind while you stay true to your course.
W asked you to handle things like a man. So handle them like a man. Respond the way Starsky proposed, or don't respond at all.
Let her throw her little temper tantrum. Don't anguish over it. Instead, transfer that anguish back on the person who DESERVES it: her.
Let.her.spew. And let her CHOKE on it. Period.
I think at the very least - do nothing - and at the very most, send what Starsky suggests:
"I'm sorry you feel that way. Everything I've done, I've done to try to save our marriage. I stand by my actions."
Become a man of few words, GAL, and let your W and OM live with what just happened.
I have not responded to the email. I like starskys response. BUT I Also Like To Silent action. I don't even feel like that sitch deserves a retort. I'm better than that. That is why I post here first when writing though. You guys are amazing. Emotional writing is hard to control. Especially when your really upset. I am so glad I can lean on you all so heavily.
I would not respond. She is asking permission to file divorce. Doing nothing is the strongest play. By agreeing to drop the NC you betray your core boundary. By saying no she is going to say to herself "he forced me to file". So saying nothing takes both of those away. And not responding goes well with the "let her go" track.
I wokeup this morning, put the new dark sheets on my bed, took all items in the house that are associated with W down and put them in a closet. gotta come up with a plan for the landry thing. i will no longer even do a single item of clothing that is her's. i think after she starts see the cloths build up she will get the point. went for a good bike ride today the weather is outstanding now hanging at starbucks trying to get some homework done. that you everyone for all your help yesterday. That was most deff. a trying time...I still have to realize i do not have to respond to anything that i dont want too and i shouldn't respond to anything at this point. However i am excited about the prospect of my future i know i will make it through this one way or the other and i will not compromise myself or my values.
I agree with your assessment completely. I have decided not to even entertain the idea. She can infer what she wants and make the choice herself. As for me I'm staying true to myself and who I want to be. I know I have made some blunders since Joining this site, but I have also been helped in finding what it is I am willing to accept and what I can't accept.
Oh lol. I caught up on your sitch and read the letter part and I was like "oh shhht" ...I thought you sent that. Thank god you didn't. It sounded way too angry and way too reactive.
Listen to starsky!
Less is more by the way!
It really helped me recently to try to get into W's head and then be like "what would she think now if I'd say this or that"...often I realize it doesn't make any sense/she won't get it or take it serious at all what I plan on saying.
The problem lies in the word SAYING. We said too much but not enough. Actions speak louder than words. And if you need to say something, keep it short!
I might not be great with doing the right thing, but that is why i check in here before doing anything, especially when i am angry or upset at a sitch. I have gone completely dark from her, and i have not responded to the email where she said that she will wait for my answer. And she is never going to get a response from me. well especially for a while.
Today- i woke up this morning missing W very much actually had a feeling of anxiety. but instead of ignoring it i acknowledged how i was feeling and just took a few deep breaths and expressed how i was feeling and i think it helped a bit. i feel a little bit lighter.
Just sth I noticed in your writing:
She will NEVER get an answer. WELL ESPECIALLY FOR A WHILE.
I do the same thing. We say "never" or use other extremes, then we say the opposite or mild it down. So our W's think we are not men of our words, which makes them lose respect for us.
Just something worth working on.
well there is truly no way to NEVER give an answer. i mean sooner or later its going to end right? either in D or piecing. so i will have to talk to her sooner or later. i wasn't meaning the Either dropping the NC or D. she will not get an answer from me for that. but sooner or later i will have to communicate with her there is no way around that, am i right? But for the time being she will not even get a peep from me. I am going to stay dark for some time, i have to for my own sanity!
Correct! Do what works for YOU right now!
I just said what I said to show you that if you have communication with W you have to be a respectable man of your words. I did the same mistakes, a) talking too much b) contradicting myself c) not following up with what I said.
These are the three rules of communicating with WAW. If someone wants to add sth to that list please do so.
We can only say things we mean and we know we can follow up with actions. Our words need meaning in our situation. Which is hard bc all our words lost a lot of meaning for our WAWs. So action speakea louder, but it's tempting bc words are easy spoken, actions need weeks or many months to prove a point.
Just having a thought process here
Think of it this way. In order, from best to worst:
1. You lead with words, they are followed up by consistent action.
2. You say nothing, and do nothing.
3. You lead with words, and then you do NOT follow up by action consistent with those words.
In other words, it would be better to say (and even do) NOTHING, than to make vainglorious "grand pronouncements" and phony boundaries, only to then not follow thru on them.
Starsky
So atm I am at the say nothing do nothing stage, I believe I just need time to sit back and regroup myself. And just look out for me without any outlying stressors. Thanks again everyone.
I have a few questions regarding how i am feeling at this moment and my actions.
is it normal not to want to see my W at all, I am not angry with her, or resentful. I do feel sorry for her in a sympathetic sort of way not sure why either. But i just feel like i want to avoid her at all costs right now. I do miss her more than anything but i still do not want to see her. does that make any sense. Next question W is not moved out of the house, she is staying with a friend but all her things are still at house. This does not allow for a complete seperation in my opinion kinda allows her to keep her eggs in two baskets. Should i be worried about this or should i take steps to have all her things removed from house. its a tough thing because i dont want to talk to her right now, any ideas or should i just let it be?
I do think you should take steps for her to get her things. Or just kindly let her know you've neatly boxed them up for her and have them in secure storage.
I'd welcome others' thoughts on this.
Starsky
I am starting to feel that as well after the ultimatum of either i lift the NC or She will D me, i think that i need to begin taking steps to either find my own place or move her things out, but maybe i am wrong in this thought.
I have a few questions regarding how i am feeling at this moment and my actions.
is it normal not to want to see my W at all, I am not angry with her, or resentful. I do feel sorry for her in a sympathetic sort of way not sure why either. But i just feel like i want to avoid her at all costs right now.
That's^^ normal, imo, b/c at the very least, you'll have a lot less stress.
I do miss her more than anything but i still do not want to see her. does that make any sense.
Next question W is not moved out of the house, she is staying with a friend but all her things are still at house. This does not allow for a complete separation in my opinion kinda allows her to keep her eggs in two baskets.
I feel as if your anger (or passive aggression?) is coming out here^^ b/c it's not as if you are tripping over her things, are you?
Just Hide the photos of you two if you need to, but the idea that you MUST ditch her stuff, seems pretty fast and pretty reactive, doesn't it?
Try your best NOT to be reactive in this situation.
It does NOT strike me as "cake walking" either so before you go down that road, think more. Is her stuff being OUT of her reach really such an advantage to her?
I think it's the opposite. She has things she NEEDS but cannot get to without dealing with you. Plus, there is an underlying feeling of displacement by not having your stuff.
It could be helpful of you, and detached, if you could box up what you believe she would most need but I don't sense that you are authentically there.
Know what I mean? Have you read the Div Busting books b/c I can't tell.
IF NOT please do so asap.
IF SO, then can you tell us what your GAL and 180s are? Other than the deployment, what were the marital issues?
As an Army veteran myself (deployed to Persian Gulf in the first Gulf War) and as the wife of a veteran/reservist (h was deployed in 2012) -
I think I can speak to something your w mentioned that you sort of glossed over.
SHE ASKED you not to go and you did NOT have to go. You volunteered, despite her pleas to the contrary.
You claimed that she came around to the decision you made. But to me, it sounded as if she just gave up, b/c she knew you were going to go no matter what she said or did.
I also think her comments and her fears were, for HER, an SOS she was sending you, to NOT go. Maybe at some level, she feels she warned you...??
Some women, particularly those without children or rewarding careers that occupy their time, JUST cannot make a long term separation work. This is especially true when their h's deploy voluntarily.
I'm NOT defending ^^that, I'm just saying it.
Can you see how SHE might have actually felt hurt by your choice? it does not sound like a "marital decision" but rather, it was something she was forced to deal with and boy, she did not deal with it well.
Should i be worried about this or should i take steps to have all her things removed from house. its a tough thing because i dont want to talk to her right now, any ideas or should i just let it be?
Well, what can you handle? So much depends on that.
Also, the more you challenge her choices, the more you force her to defend them.
The airing of dirty laundry is NOT in keeping with DB (read the books to know why) and I happen to agree with that position.
Starsky feels differently, & so you have different opinions on it.
Can you tell us what your wife would say if SHE were here, talking about the marriage?
What issues might SHE believe you could work on? That will help us to help you, to know what you consider valid for your own work.
Also, as a former JAG Officer, here's a thing about the Code of Military Justice for you...
"Conduct unbecoming" only applies to officers. (No such crime about NCOs exists, even if the film "A Few Good Men" said so).
Adultery is still a crime, but I never saw it prosecuted by itself, in courts martial. It was only charged when it was combined with other acts, like extortion or bribery.
It's not exactly a career enhancer however, (a letter of reprimand is possible) and steps will usually be taken to keep parties apart if they are likely to get violent.
Your command will need to know you can keep it together and thus, compartmentalization becomes mandatory.
Stay strong. Become a man only a fool would leave.
That will always be the best choice for you to make.
25yearsmlc,
There is a lot less stress that is true, as far as the discussion about her things in the house i was just curious how to handle everything i was not implying that i wanted to throw them out maybe i was not clear i appologize for that. She chose OM and i am left in the house. she still comes and goes as she wants with our dogs staying with me. though we do not have many interactions, for a little while things seemed to be getting better as far as just being cordial with one another. I have hid all our pictures and not touched anything else of hers. her closets are still full and i even still do the little bit of laundry she brings by somedays.
since the seperation i have taken up cooking, learning the guitar, finished completing my Advanced Open Water Cert. i'm going to concerts, camping and weightlifting. I stopped helping her fix the vehicle or her scooter, i am taking steps to seperate our finances and cell phones.
When W asked me not to Deploy This was not a Gloss over we talked about it daily for about a month. Where i was before the deployment and where i needed to be could only be achieved through deployment points. She did beg me not to go at first then we started looking at the positives and we decided together though now hind sight 20/20 she just agreed to agree. i see that now and it breaks my heart that i could not see that then. If she would have said anything like i dont think we will make it through this deployment or i'm not strong enough to be here that long without you. i NEVER I REPEAT NEVER WOULD HAVE gone! I believed we were rock solid. Prior my Deployment we had what i thought and everyone else thought was the perfect marriage. She was my best friend, camping buddy, workout partner, everything!
I realized as soon as i got on that plane to fly over the pond, that i should never have sought the deployment. But i was stuck.
I did not want to air her laundry out there, but we were reading a book and trying to follow the plan that was laid out, and i was going to follow it to the T because i didnt know what else to do. Her idea was more fluid she would pick and chose what she wanted to do, work on, what she would give up. Our first plan was for her to cut all ties and contact with OM for a month, she stopped talking to him but did not avoid seeing him on her extra caricular time where they both teach gymnastics.
Plan B was to be completed if plan a could not work. Plan B was for the betrayed spouse to leave and cut all ties with the wayward spouse. instead she said she could no longer stay in the house alone after doing it for 10 months. i understood that and so i stayed she went to stay with a friend and split her time with OM. We have two dogs so she would still come by the house. she asked to make a set time so she could come by but not see me, so i agreed. I thought i was working on Plan B rather well but she read the book too and believes that plan be is for me to just leave her alone to find herself with OM. Kinda like expecting me to give her permission to be with another man while staying married to me.
ATM the Airforce has issued a NC on OM stemming from the emails and texts i submitted to the Airforce IG. W did not take this very well, actually she called it the ultimate betrayal. and said plan be could not be completed if the NC stayed in place on OM. she has really gotten mean and angry on this subject. very hateful and demanding. i have thought about lifting the NC and just telling her this is not working for me anymore either. I do not want a D but i realize that i now have to let her go. The reason i feel sorry for her is that even though she is wayward, it is obvious she is not doing ok, and she is struggling internally, and hurting I still love her and cant just turn that part off. But i know there is nothing that i can do to fix it. She has to find her way out of this with or without me in her life.
At this moment W does not want to work on M actaully resorted to threatening me with D this past saturday if i didnt lift NC on OM, So I am struggling with fact that if i dont lift NC she is going to D me, and i would have forced her hand. But then if i do lift the NC i am not staying true to myself and what i stand for. But can i truly let her go and maintain the NC on OM at the same time?
From what IG explained to me the Airforce has regulations that govern how their NCO's have to conduct themselves and even though they are not punishable under UCMJ the Airman can still get in trouble if he breaks the NC because its a cammand directed order. And that is punishable under UCMJ.
If W was here talking about the sitch she would say that i really hurt us by how i handled the entire sitch from the begining. She believes that i have done everything in the attempt to hurt her and manipulate her into getting what i want. Those words are straight from her mouth. She would say that if i would have stepped back not pursued, snooped, and just let her have her space to think things might have been better. Again hind sight 20/20 i would have reacted far differently than what i did. We are 6 months into this affair. She believes she loves him and our marriage is dead. she says she loves me but too much bad has happened to fix it. I do not believe that but i cannot change her mind. i can only better myself and hope that one day she see's the truth.
Thank you so much for your input and insite it is greatly appreciated. Sorry for such a long response. I do understand that i have blame in this for not acknowledgeing the most important needs of my W, my partner and best friend. Instead i worried about future financial stability. One lesson i wish i would have never had to learn.
She believes that i have done everything in the attempt to hurt her and manipulate her into getting what i want. Those words are straight from her mouth. She would say that if i would have stepped back not pursued, snooped, and just let her have her space to think things might have been better.
Rysin, what would W's complaints about your M have been before she decided to betray you and sleep with another man??
Please allow me to be clear about something: EVERY cheater will rewrite marital history once they're cheating. My H, the first time he cheated, had been "miserable" the entire time we'd been together ... even though he had 18 months of dating me to decide he didn't want to marry me ... and then 18 months of being married to me BEFORE he left me the first time because he was "so miserable" the entire time he'd known me.
He returned to our M after being S for four months. We were together for more than eight years after that. And then he cheated again, claiming he had been "miserable all 10 years of our M." He even looked at my grown daughters and asked: "What? Do you think I should stay miserable for the rest of my life???" (FTR, he came back after only TWO months of S that time and has been back since.)
And I know you were assuming up there what your W might say if she could tell us her complaints of your M - because that's essentially what 25 asked of you - but you said she wouldn't have wanted you to pursue or snoop.
I mean, duh. Of course she didn't want you to snoop. What cheating spouse wants to be busted? Of course she didn't want you to pursue. She'd rather have run off into the sunset with her lover.
I'll ask you to assume, too, but I'm going to ask you to narrow down your assumptions a bit: What are W's marital complaints - PRE-AFFAIR - that sting? Has she offered any?
As for the way to handle separating your belongings, I'm torn because I'm trying to separate my experience from yours.
After I told H to leave our home because he continued to disrespect me in front of our children - and he showed he didn't want to end his A - I packed his belongings (neatly) in boxes, put them on the front porch and let him know he could pick them up at his convenience. If I had it to do all over again? I'd do the same thing.
But if you take more of the "RobX approach" that Starsky posted the other day? I don't know. Like, it's a tougher stance, to be sure. But it's softer in its own right, too. (It's also causing me terrible belly-aching about that NC order once Starsky wrote about the approach ... and how it's different - in some fundamental ways - from what I'd normally think you should do.) And if you embrace THAT approach, I'd have half-a-mind to think the best thing you could do is also drop the NC order.
I am not at all qualified to direct you on that. I'll defer to Starsky; he DID already mention that he'd advise you to keep quiet about it and HOPE that W doesn't mention it in the event you decide to go with that approach.
But I just thought I'd offer that I've really gone back-and-forth about your situation the past week since reading Starsky's thoughts about the different approaches. And even *I* am confused about the best one for you ... and how to handle that NC order if you commit to the one approach.
I think it's something that needs to be talked about and debated THOROUGHLY before you do it. But I have to be honest: it's really been gnawing at me.
Train,
She actually said that she was the happiest woman and luckiest woman in the world pre-deployment. she even said that she was head over heels drop dead in love with me during R&R in June. By august she met him, and by october she felt she loved him. Thought that she must not have loved me as much as she believed. what i just said above is what i found in her emails when i was snooping and it was addressed to herself.
Now she says that she never really let me in during our entire marriage and that she never loved me as much as she thought. She even tried to go so far as to write down things that annoyed her that i did and she wrote one thing. Leaves toilet seat up at night. "I admit i do that sometimes.
, other than that we learned how to communicate very well pre-deployment, arguments actually were constructive, even when a blow up happened we were able to step back take a breath and come back and compromise together. So i really don't know for sure. I know at one time in our relationship i had gained a bit of weight from injury, but for the most part i kept myself fit, i was always attentive to her needs. when asked if i fulfilled her most needed emotional needs she said yes, without a doubt he did. that is why i am so destroyed over this, i thought we were perfect in every way. I do know her two most important needs are intimate conversations and sexual attention. And it is really hard to fulfill those while gone for 10 months. its just a tough spot to ask anyone to be in i know that.
is it bad etiquette to post emails on here. i will of course remove names. but i just received an email from wife and i want a females take on it. and of course anyone else that has a take. from how i read it, it comes across as kinda manipulation because she did not get the result she wanted from me the last few days. i have stopped all como so far. for 4 days straight she has been prodding me to decide if i am going to drop the NC. first its was trying to sway me by saying she wanted to work on me and her, but she needed clarity and as long as she couldnt find clarity she couldn't work on us, then came the D threats if i didnt drop the NC, and now this. please feel free to weigh in everyone.
More later, but it is not "bad etiquette" to post emails. But, yes, remove names or any other identifying information.
Simple but brilliant analogy regarding the psych of a cheater reasoning himself out of the responsibilty by pointing out the flaws in us that they knew long before, but didn't care about them as long as they were in love with us...
Imagine you go buy a car. It has a visible dent. You're like, I want this car, it's awesome. The dealers says, yes it is but it has a big dent right there, other than that it works just fine. You really want it with this dent?
Oh yes, I don't care. I love this car. I don't care about the dent. Ok sign here...
50.000 miles later: oh my god, this car has a dent, wtf. I'll bring it back, this is ridiculous. You go back and want to return it bc of the dent.
Car dealer be like....???????!?!?!?!?!? Wtf is wrong with you? It's been 50k miles, I told you it has a dent when you bought it, it's still the same one...you even signed it....
Little out of context but it's an analogy that really simplifies the emotions in a funny way.
I have a hard time communicating with you lately, so I am going to attempt to tell you how I feel about our situation right now. I remember us both agreeing that no matter what happened with us we did not want to be malicious or mean to each other. I believe I have tried to stick by that and have not done anything to make your life any more difficult right now. I wanted you to stay in the house with the babies (dogs). I wanted you to have company and do whatever you need to do right now. You are free to go where you want with whoever you want at any time. You can have anyone over to the house at any time and do as you please. All I am asking for is the same courtesy. You think that I am free to do what I want but I am not. You keep saying that I can go to acro or gym or whatever I want but I cant. I cant because I refuse to do anything mean-spirited to anyone. I am not that kind of person. You have put me in a difficult situation where it is very hard to enjoy anything in my life. This is why I feel like you and the military are controlling my life. You say you know me so well. You should know that I cannot handle the thought of not being in control of my own life. It makes me feel desperate, like I need to do whatever I can to get control over my life again. I am at a breaking point, Rysinman. This is why I need you to make a decision. I cant live like this. It is literally driving me crazy to feel like I am not in control of my own life. I do not want to make any rash decisions or make any major decisions too soon, but I feel so desperate that it feels like my only option. I want to have the time to try and talk with you when we both calm down. But I cant calm down until I know what your decision is with the no contact order. I know that you have it in your mind your own reason why you think I am asking you for a decision, but the truth is what I have explained above. I need to feel in control of my life and I am at a breaking point. Please tell me what you have decided to do.
This is the email that i received today and i am kinda at a loss. Some of it comes across as sincere but then i know that she has been trying to get me to remove this NC on OM, and she has tried many different approaches from threatening D to trying to insult me to make me angry, to saying in order to work on our marriage i need to let her get clarity and she can only do this with the NC gone. So it comes across as manipulative to me. what do you all think.
I see what you are saying. Some part of it does sound sincere. It's very similar to what my W is doing and all the other WAW.s. They DO tell you the truth about how they feel like but leave details and other truths (eg. feelings for OP), and due to the lacking trust you mistrust them and they get mad at you and validate that the separation is necessary. We then give them all the validation they need/wanted.
In this case you have to take her serious tho I think. Respect what she is saying. It's important. It sounds like she feels humongously pressured from all sides. Which drives her away, far away. It also sounds like she's blaming you a lot...the email is like YOU YOU YOU.
Then she seems to ask you about the NC order but somewhat sneaky between the lines. It sounds like she is putting the pressure back on you now by forcing a decision...warning you with "I'm at a breaking point". She doesn't specify what she means by that. D? Her attempt to blackmail you like this is only between the lines.
I'm not experienced enough to figure out a response to that. But I tell you one thing: DON'T let it get to you too much. Don't overthink. It's a lot of standard script. She is testing you. You have to show her you take her serious, you gotta be calm and reasonable and not piss her off. Be a good listener when you meet with her. You have to set her free, but it can NOT be dependent on the NC order.
You just have to have the right mindset right now. Simplified: Love her (don't tell her), let her go, keep the boundaries you set, don't give in, stay strong.
that is how i have been approached since finding out about the EA/PA and how i reacted. instead of stepping back and letting her just do what she wanted to find her "clarity". i reacted the only way i knew how at the time. snooping, arguing all the script things the betrayed spouse does. her all the while saying these things im doing ar selfish and she just needs space and time to think. and then when i sent the info the Air force and they pressed the NC on OM then everything was without a doubt my fault, "i was doing everything for myself and being selfish." she had even gone so far as to say that i am happy to see where she is at and that she is depressed and unhappy. I dont understand how someone can change so fast and also how they continue not to see they are the ones that are selfish. but anyhow i agree complex i read all those subtle hints about the NC. and then how she went to so far as to say, I can come and go and do what i want with who i want and that she lets me. and that she just wants the same thing....! i almost spit up my water, all i could see as her trying to justify what she wants. kinda like i have fired you as my hubby, i dont care what you do or who you do it with, SO you should not care what i am doing or who i am doing it with. that is how i inferred that statement. gonna let this one sit for a little but i do feel like i have to at least respond sooner or later, with something simple short and to the point!
Rys,
Couple things...FTR this is Not about you being "right", okay? So the defensiveness I'm picking up a Little of, is not needed.
I feel bad for you and as a veteran, I REALLY do empathize with your situation. I think cheating on deployed soldiers is like cheating on pregnant wives; which is to say it's damn hard to deal with.
But, here you are. So, what to do now & "from this day forward"??
I asked you if you have read the DB books and you have not answered. It's essential that you read the books and in my opinion it's essential that you actually USE the advice in them.
Some or all of the folks posting to you, thus far, TO MY KNOWLEDGE are not advocating a specific DB plan.
I suggest you choose an approach and give it a real shot BEFORE mixing them all up b/c I can't tell where you are coming up with "Plan A" or "B" or whatever...It's not DB planning...
They seem like set ups for failure to me. Or tests - or both.
I'm a big fan of Div Busting b/c I feel my m would have ended if it were not for this approach. So I am biased.
But then, THIS SITE is a Db site...not Dobson's, not "tough love" etc.
What do YOU Want, now? Do you want a restored marriage, or for her to just feel really bad and remorseful, but out of your life?
(B/c that's the feeling I'm getting from your behavior and words, but I'm not sure)
Do you get my point?
25yearsmlc,
There is a lot less stress that is true, as far as the discussion about her things in the house i was just curious how to handle everything
i was not implying that i wanted to throw them out maybe i was not clear i apologize for that. No need to apologize.
Here's the bottom line,
Act in accordance with your goals (whatever they are& figure that out asap)
And NOT In accordance w/how you Feel.
Make sense?
She chose OM and i am left in the house.
Oh, I misunderstood. I thought she was still trying to decide.
Regardless, if you want to give her the space to figure this out, so be it. BACK OFF and keep on GAL and doing your 180s (which I am still not clear on).
BUT if you do NOT want to give her that space or if you know you cannot ever even conceive of forgiving her, then see the JAG and be done with this.
The worst choice, atm and in my opinion, is to stay married AND stay miserable.
But forgiveness is Not something I grew up with. So for me, it was a learned skill.
How do you feel about forgiveness, at least as a concept?
she still comes and goes as she wants with our dogs staying with me.
beware of too much "mind reading"^^ here. "Comes and goes as she wants" is not true or accurate, as your own words below & other posts demonstrate.
Second, I'm a dog lover and it would bother me a lot to not see any of them, or to have to check with you to do that (and arrange to be there when you are not, b/c I'm NOT "free to come & go as I want"...
and besides, you are with all her worldly possessions, which means she's got to trust you not to do irate angry things with them...
though we do not have many interactions, for a little while things seemed to be getting better as far as just being cordial with one another.
If you can, try to see the interactions you do have, however infrequent or short lived, as opportunities for her to see you in your best light.
(I'd advise that no matter what else you choose to do, b/c it simply reflects well on you and increases the chances of her second guessing herself, which is usually a goal - even if it is totally over).
Have you ever read the "Five Love Languages", by Chapman? It's a good book (I mean, for all couples, really), but if you know what your wife's love languages is (quality time??)
then you could "speak" in that language more...
IF you want to save the marriage (OR if you are not sure you don't,)
it might be a good idea to figure that love language stuff out.
See those interactions as chances for her to see you in a new way.
By seeing those moments as opportunities for you to demonstrate change,
you won't dread them so much.
In my situation, & with the aid of my Godsent DB coach, MY first goal was to be able to talk on the phone with my h and NOT escalate things into a fight.
That was NOT easy and anger was a constant companion of mine for a long time. I also obsessed about what my h was thinking/doing/planning/feeling, for almost a year of my life that I"ll never get back...
After awhile, that first goal became "have a 15 min conflict free talk" and then it grew from there.
So, Getting BACK to Div Busting basics,
do you have any short term goals vis a vis your w?
Or are you solely in Damage control mode now?
.
since the seperation i have taken up cooking, learning the guitar, finished completing my Advanced Open Water Cert. i'm going to concerts, camping and weightlifting.
Wow, I'm impressed! I really am. Good for you. This is HUGE! 
I stopped helping her fix the vehicle or her scooter, i am taking steps to separate our finances and cell phones.
I assume this^^ is done to protect yourself? And from what? B/C if it is to punish her, then I'd remind you to act in accordance with your goals and NOT your emotions...(which is actually a really smart way to live life anyway.)
So ASK yourself when you are in a dilemma, what your goal is AND whether your proposed act or words will get you closer to the goal(s).
Below, I am feeling some defensiveness in your response. Think about it and see if the highlighted parts might be the most truthful...
When
W asked me not to Deploy This was not a Gloss over we talked about it daily for about a month. Where i was before the deployment and where i needed to be could only be achieved through deployment points.
She did beg me not to go at first then we started looking at the positives and we decided together though now hind sight 20/20
she just agreed to agree. i see that now and it breaks my heart that i could not see that then.
If she would have said anything like i dont think we will make it through this deployment or i'm not strong enough to be here that long without you. i NEVER I REPEAT NEVER WOULD HAVE gone! I believed we were rock solid. Prior my Deployment we had what i thought and everyone else thought was the perfect marriage. She was my best friend, camping buddy, workout partner, everything!
Well...few women would openly admit (even to themselves) that they are "not strong enough" to make it thru a deployment...But in retrospect that is what I suspect she felt...
but then again, given what you say your career needs were, deep down, wouldn't you have resented it - if she had?
(NOTE - That would not make you a jerk. If she married you while you were active duty, it should not have come as a shock to her that you might have to go somewhere "inconvenient")
Also, going forward, is the military going to be your career?
I realized as soon as i got on that plane to fly over the pond, that i should never have sought the deployment. But i was stuck.
WHY did you so quickly regret the deployment? Were there rumblings or musings or just a feeling you had? Were you are attentive as you could be while deployed, given the constraints of that?
I only ask b/c When I was deployed, I was busier than I had ever been in my life, by far. It was like studying for the bar exam all the time but in a horrible physical environment and having the free floating angst of missiles overhed to boot. H said for him, it was a 'feast or famine" type of thing b/c he's an MD and there'd be nothing much to do OR a ton of patients to see all of a sudden...
Point is, I could not bear to talk to home often or I'd end up wanting to cry afterwards (every single time, I cried and then had to "get it together" for work).
It actually seemed easier to me to block it out and hope for the time to go by faster...so in some ways I could have been much better. Just admitting it.
I did not want to air her laundry out there,
but we were reading a book and trying to follow the plan that was laid out, and i was going to follow it to the T because i didnt know what else to do.
Hey, I don't want to belabor the point but this^^^ ALL SOUNDS like a ton of controlling stuff on your end. "The Plan that was laid out" is such a military thing to say and then force upon her, and then...well...
enough said, I hope/think.
Her idea was more fluid
of course it was more fluid, b/c it was about HER choices and HER behavior...not yours.
is this obvious to you now, or do I need to clarify what I mean? In other words, I don't want to belabor this b/c maybe I'm beating a dead horse. Am I? --
Plan B was to be completed if plan a could not work. Plan B was for the betrayed spouse to leave and cut all ties with the wayward spouse.
Wait... 
So YOU were supposed to end it? What? I mean, this is SO NOT a Div Busting plan, I can barely address it. In fact, I'll just repeat my earlier advice to
make a choice about AN approach to take towards your marital crisis.
I'm a fan of THIS SITE'S APPROACH - but you are not following it for the most crucial parts and so, I'm sort of at a loss as to what to advise.
Can you hire a DB coach? I found mine invaluable. I did a lot of things to help my m.
But if I were in that boat again AND If I could only do ONE thing - it'd be to hire that same DB coach again and to follow her sage advice.
It was hard as heck at times (as in "Mother Teresa hard") but dang, she sure steered me right. And it was NOT always what I wanted to do or what I heard from some of my friends/family.
At one point, I had a dear friend urge me to, in effect, kick my h when he confessed a profound remorse to me. I shook my head at her.
But in that moment, I realized also, that it was Div Busting advice I'd gotten from my coach and NOT the justified rage I felt before, that had gotten me to a good place with my h.
ATM the Airforce has issued a NC on OM stemming from the emails and texts i submitted to the Airforce IG. W did not take this very well, actually she called it the ultimate betrayal.
I know.
I read that and don't see why you are surprised by it. Are you not seeing any problems with it? B/C if that is the case, I'd have to ask you one question: what was the goal of your behavior?
See, it was to harm OM's career (and yes, I know you've gotten support for that) and to stop your wife's behavior. But neither goal was achieved. Your w says and you seem to agree, that you are in a worse position based on how you two interact. It surely did not help.
And btw, The NC order is for safety reasons and it came from the command, not you. I'm ONLY saying that to remind you to let go of what You do not control.
And finally, Your wife clearly feels you aired a private matter, which is true.
and said plan be could not be completed if the NC stayed in place on OM. she has really gotten mean and angry on this subject. very hateful and demanding.
i have thought about lifting the NC and just telling her this is not working for me anymore either.
Back to the "control" aspects of this.... Do you see how some of ^^^ this reads?
You need do nothing about the NC order to move on with your life. You can also move on without giving up.
It's pretty important that you grasp this.
I do not want a D but i realize that i now have to let her go. The reason i feel sorry for her is that even though she is wayward, it is obvious she is not doing ok, and she is struggling internally, and hurting I still love her and cant just turn that part off. But i know there is nothing that i can do to fix it. She has to find her way out of this with or without me in her life.
At this moment W does not want to work on M actually resorted to threatening me with D this past saturday if i didnt lift NC on OM, So I am struggling with fact that if i dont lift NC she is going to D me, and i would have forced her hand.
But then if i do lift the NC i am not staying true to myself and what i stand for.
But can i truly let her go and maintain the NC on OM at the same time?
Letting her go is NOT the same as giving up. It means to let go of the illusion of control that you are clinging to.
Focus on becoming a man only a fool would leave.
As for the regulations you were posting and explaining to me, there is no need for that. I'm very familiar with the law in the military but I was simply trying to remind you of the illusion you are busying yourself with, (that you can control her or OM much or for long)
in lieu of working on your life and your 180s.
So, can you mention some of those 180s now?
-
If W was here talking about the sitch she would say that i really hurt us by how i handled the entire sitch from the begining. She believes that i have done everything in the attempt to hurt her and manipulate her into getting what i want. Those words are straight from her mouth.
This^^ is semi script but in your case it's also mostly true. I'd really like to get back to DB basics however...I think this program works if you work the program.
Your wife's issues with you PRIOR to the deployment and affair are clearly what the focus would be on if you were to want to work on yourself, (and your behavior since.)
NOT her behavior...she's not here working on things or trying to save the m.
You are.
She would say that if i would have stepped back not pursued, snooped, and just let her have her space to think things might have been better.
Again hind sight 20/20 i would have reacted far differently than what i did. The tough love or whatever you want to call it, did not work.
Would it be fair to say "more of the same will yield you more of the same"? We are 6 months into this affair. She believes she loves him and our marriage is dead. she says she loves me but
too much bad has happened to fix it. I do not believe that but i cannot change her mind. i can only better myself and hope that one day she see's the truth.
we cannot say for sure what would help or save your m. Mostly, we can tell you what will HARM it and anything done in anger or in attempts to control your spouse will usually do harm.
I will try to quote Starsky here, about exposure (which is NOT something I support) but even he says "it's never to be done in anger" and both of us are in alignment with not lying FOR our spouses to have their affair.
But to me that is a far cry from publicizing anything between them or trying to harm someone's career b/c of it.
Keep in mind when you are acting in anger, that you be less likely to prevail, ultimately.
Imo, which is hardly fool proof, your best shot at getting her to second guess things is by adopting a "You are free to do/love as you please and I wish you well" attitude.
With a resigned sad FOR HER air about you. Not b/c you are losing out so much as that SHE is. It's alright to pity her!
All I can say for sure in MY situation is that I came to a point where I truly believed that my h was losing a lot more than I was, if we divorced. And that belief tends to radiate from within and you just get a sense of confident peace within...
and that is attractive.
The other thing to realize is that a WAS is always at a disadvantage down the road (I mean, absent a big problem within the m)
She'll have 2nd thoughts every time a problem arises in the new R.
Or a song or positive memory of the Marriage comes up (and in time the positives will resurface)
and when she is stuck recalling a close moment she comes to miss...
OR when a financial problem arises that might not have arisen if she'd stayed with you...
OR when a trait you had in common, is revealed as a difference between her and the OM,
OR the things you know about her that make her laugh, or which she so loves
are NOT known by him, she will miss you or rethink her choice;
and b/c familiarity is NOT a bad thing, (b/c it brings comfort and especially so in times of crisis,)
She will think of you; and rethink her choice; and
every time a family member of hers
or close friend of YOURS sees her with OM instead of you, she will wonder.
Every holiday that she once spent with you; she will have second thoughts.
Every time that special place you two shared comes up, she will wonder...
she will look over her shoulder a lot in the coming months and next few years....
and in those moments, those times, you want to be & look your best, so she reaches out to you...FOR Lots of reasons.
But we, the LBS'ers do not have those concerns.
We are just making the best of a bad situation. Our regrets are usually a lot fewer so in truth, I'd rather be in our shoes than the WAS.
I do understand that i have blame in this for
not acknowledgeing the most important needs of my W, my partner and best friend. Instead i worried about future financial stability. One lesson i wish i would have never had to learn.
If you can elaborate on this^^, we could perhaps offer some advice. I'm just not clear on what you mean, specifically, that you wish you had done better.
IF the time comes when you can discuss ^^ those things with your w,
admit fault where it fits IF you want her to know that you "Get it".
A line I like to use if/when that comes up is :
"W, I'm sorry about 'X" b/c I know it hurt you. If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently."
Then drop it. That^^ shows that you do care and you are taking some responsibility for things AND that you are changing.
And it does not escalate things or make you into a doormat.
So why not read the DB book, and see about a DB coach, and or list some short term goals, some 180s and see where to go from there?
Good luck, soldier on and hang in there!
This is the email that i received today and i am kinda at a loss. Some of it comes across as sincere but then i know that she has been trying to get me to remove this NC on OM, and she has tried many different approaches from threatening D to trying to insult me to make me angry, to saying in order to work on our marriage i need to let her get clarity and she can only do this with the NC gone. So it comes across as manipulative to me. what do you all think.
I agree. And I think I told you to expect this.
Starsky
I have a hard time communicating with you lately, so I am going to attempt to tell you how I feel about our situation right now. I remember us both agreeing that no matter what happened with us we did not want to be malicious or mean to each other. I believe I have tried to stick by that and have not done anything to make your life any more difficult right now. I wanted you to stay in the house with the babies (dogs). I wanted you to have company and do whatever you need to do right now. You are free to go where you want with whoever you want at any time. You can have anyone over to the house at any time and do as you please. All I am asking for is the same courtesy. You think that I am free to do what I want but I am not. You keep saying that I can go to acro or gym or whatever I want but I cant. I cant because I refuse to do anything mean-spirited to anyone. I am not that kind of person. You have put me in a difficult situation where it is very hard to enjoy anything in my life. This is why I feel like you and the military are controlling my life. You say you know me so well. You should know that I cannot handle the thought of not being in control of my own life. It makes me feel desperate, like I need to do whatever I can to get control over my life again. I am at a breaking point, Rysinman. This is why I need you to make a decision. I cant live like this. It is literally driving me crazy to feel like I am not in control of my own life. I do not want to make any rash decisions or make any major decisions too soon, but I feel so desperate that it feels like my only option. I want to have the time to try and talk with you when we both calm down. But I cant calm down until I know what your decision is with the no contact order. I know that you have it in your mind your own reason why you think I am asking you for a decision, but the truth is what I have explained above. I need to feel in control of my life and I am at a breaking point. Please tell me what you have decided to do.
This is the email that i received today and i am kinda at a loss. Some of it comes across as sincere but then i know that she has been trying to get me to remove this NC on OM, and she has tried many different approaches from threatening D to trying to insult me to make me angry, to saying in order to work on our marriage i need to let her get clarity and she can only do this with the NC gone. So it comes across as manipulative to me. what do you all think.
I would respond (but not right away) with:
"I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done, I have done to try and fight for our marriage. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for your choices, as you're beginning to learn. I will neither do or un-do anything further, as frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
Rys"
This would be consistent with MWD's "After the Last Resort Technique," and I think it's appropriate for the stage you're in and considering what you've tried so far.
Starsky
"I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done, I have done to try and fight for our marriage. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for your choices, as you're beginning to learn. I will neither do or un-do anything further, as frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
Rys"
I like that. But Rys, you have to be really, really, really sure that you are genuine and authentic about this and *fully prepared* for her to choose OM. The way I look at it - and did, even in my sitch - is that she already has.
At the end, you're left with two possibilities:
1. Your W comes back to you and understands why you fought as hard as you did for her and respects you for it. (And I'm pretty sure you know what I mean by "fight.")
2. Your W is already gone and won't come back, and you are left with respect for yourself.
I'll tell you from where I sit, there's nothing attractive about a man who does, well, NOTHING. Most women I know still want a hero. I consider myself a strong woman, but if I would ever - God forbid - cheat on my H and leave him, I just can't imagine I would ever be re-attracted to him if he appeared to simply move on with his life without setting firm boundaries to show that he loves me and respects HIMSELF and our M vows. I'd probably spew and lash out and make threats in an effort to get my way (which, frankly, is exactly what I think your W's email is). But deep in my gut, I think I'd grow respect for my H. And I *know* I wouldn't LOSE respect for him. But maybe that's just me and my personality.
BUT, even though I typically wouldn't think that writing an email to your W is a good idea, she wrote first, and I think Starsky's response covers perfectly that you are NOT doing this to control her; you're doing it, instead, because you LOVE her and honor your M. I think it's very important, in this case, that you tell her that. Maybe she won't believe you. If she's anything like my H, it'll probably send her off the deep-end a little at first. But just as you can't control her actions, you also can't control her REactions.
I understand this is not about being right I really do. I have both DB and DR books. The plan A and plan B were from "surviving the affair." This was all pre DB. I am no longer trying to work that. If I was to be completely honest and unbiased it would have to admit, that one of the reasons I sent info to the military was based off emotions. I also did it off of principles, for what I believe to be morally right. I never realized that my actions came across so controlling, I have never been that person. I will answer more later as I'm a work. But yes to the books. And thank you for your help
You have options.
You can try Starsky's approach or not. I think the wording needs to be very short and though I usually would not send a message, since she did, it's probably wise to do so.
Realize btw, that whatever you write will always exist, in the legal sense. I also did not see your reply to my question about whether you have sought legal counsel.
Did you? And finally, is the NC order really ALL up to you?
(I worked with commanders who routinely put those in place for the safety/welfare of the unit, NOT specifically at a h's request, and certainly not withdrawing the NC order solely b/c of the h's request)
I'm not sure how much control you have over that now.
It MIGHT be a case of un-ringing the bell. IF it is up to you, yes, I would let go of the NC order and move on in my life...hoping that with the personal work you are doing on yourself,
she might rethink things. BUT You also need to answer the other questions asked.
Are you career military with more deployments likely? That matters...
The 1SG of his unit actually called me. And we spoke about the NC and he said the NC is not up to me so I'm not sure it could be lifted on my request, like you said they saw the info I presented and decided themselves to initiate the NC. I have an appointment for legal counsel so atm no. but next week yes. I am not sure if I will be career, I am almost finished with my associates in pre-nursing and have not decided if I want to stay military to finish BSN. When we were together I was very flexible and wold have left the military if she asked. But now I have to look at this for me. Am I correct in this?
And if I cannot get it lifted how can I express this to her. Because I know she believes I can have it lifted.
The 1SG of his unit actually called me. And we spoke about the NC and he said the NC is not up to me so I'm not sure it could be lifted on my request, like you said they saw the info I presented and decided themselves to initiate the NC.
In that case, I would change my recommended reply, thus:
"I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done, I have done to try and fight for our marriage, and I stand by my decisions. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for the choices you both already made, such as the fact that the NC order is, legally, out of my hands now. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
Rys"
Maybe even keep "now" off the end of that sentence if it has, technically, never been IN your hands, per se.
?
Maybe even keep "now" off the end of that sentence if it has, technically, never been IN your hands, per se.
?
True.
I have allot to think about and I have to make a decision on what "I WANT!" Not use to that. And I know I need to let her go, and at least I know I am not giving up, just letting go of my worries for us. And just focusing on the betterment of me.
There is definitely a difference between "letting go" and "giving up," Rys. It took me awhile to finally get that, and to accept it. For me, it made it easier to give her to GOD, but regardless, you have to come to the full-on realization that YOU CANNOT CONTROL HER, AND YOU SHOULDN'T WANT TO.
That's not easy for us guys, who are by nature fixers/problem-solvers.
Starsky
Starsky,
It is without a doubt the hardset thing to realize and do. Especially knowing how much you still love that person and also because i am a man who likes to solve problems, i am also an NCO and putting out fires and solving problems was what i do best. I have been racking my brain about this entire situation for months now, waffling back and forth about things and how to handle the situation. I think it might be time to just open my arms and let the eagle fly, and see where the winds take her. because as i try to hold on, all im doing is getting cut and scratched and making her resent me more instead of leaving a pleasant memory of who i am she see's me as the Problem and actually seems to dispise me from what her friends have said.
I had a idea it might be radical but it is just an idea. It hit me when i wokeup. I was thinking about the NC and About a possible D. What if when i talked to her i offered a compromise. Now I do not want her to look at me as weak and i do not want to compromise my values, but i also know she is becoming really depressed. so what if i said something to the likes of this. " I will have the command remove the NC if you make a promise to me! Now that promise is this. If i remove NC she Files for D. That way i don't look weak but i am still giving her what she wants. or AM I JUST LOONEY! now this is obviously based on if it is possible to get the Command to drop the NC.
No. You're trying to rescue her (and her OM) from the consequences of their actions. Let Life teach them; it's not your job to rescue her anymore. She fired you from that position.
Ok. It's so hard to see what my thoughts and actions portray.
HINT: Stop worrying about "what they portray," and instead -- in each situation -- strive to do The Right Thing.
And then let the chips fall where they may.
Ok thank you...! I do want right, I don't want malice, or punishment, or anything. I want to do what I feel is truly right, in handling this bad situation.
ok i did not want to steal your entire statement Starsky but what do you think about my little edit. i wanted to write more but i help off. thanks again.
W I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done is because I believe them to be right. I have continued to try and fight for our marriage, and I stand by my decisions. I have realized that this situation is no longer working for me and my wellbeing, I can no longer continue to put myself through this, and I am ready to let go so I can better myself and receive what I deserve in this life. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you or your actions. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for the choices you both have already made; the truth about the NC is that; it is in fact legally, out of my hands. The NC was never my request, OM’s Command made that decision. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
ok i did not want to steal your entire statement Starsky but what do you think about my little edit. i wanted to write more but i help off. thanks again.
W I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done is because I believe them to be right. I have continued to try and fight for our marriage, and I stand by my decisions. I have realized that this situation is no longer working for me and my wellbeing, I can no longer continue to put myself through this, and I am ready to let go so I can better myself and receive what I deserve in this life. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you or your actions. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for the choices you both have already made; the truth about the NC is that; it is in fact legally, out of my hands. The NC was never my request, OM’s Command made that decision. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
You deserve a whole lot better.
What do you think your options are?
Starsky,
It is without a doubt the hardset thing to realize and do. Especially knowing how much you still love that person and also because i am a man who likes to solve problems,
Yes it's hard to let go of what/who we have no control over. But realize this: it's also incredibly freeing
AND you are really just letting go of an illusion; b/c you never had real control over her anyhow.
i am also an NCO and putting out fires and solving problems was what i do best. I have been racking my brain about this entire situation for months now, waffling back and forth about things and how to handle the situation. I think it might be time to just open my arms and let the eagle fly, and see where the winds take her. because as i try to hold on, all I'm doing is getting cut and scratched and making her resent me more
You can keep clinging and getting scratched until she files for Divorce and believes she hates you OR you can overtly let go of her.
To put it another way, you can keep doing what does NOT help you or the situation, or you can do something different.
Doesn't it seem like an obvious choice?
instead of leaving a pleasant memory of who i am she see's me as the Problem and actually seems to dispise me from what her friends have said.
We have an adage around here, "Believe nothing they SAY and only half of what they Do." Pay no attention to that stuff. IF you KNOW in your heart of hearts that you are doing what you believe is best for the both of you, that is all you can hope for and
YOU need to be okay with that...regardless of other's perceptions;
which 1) you cannot know and 2) could change, regardless; and 3) you have no control over anyhow.
I had a idea it might be radical but it is just an idea. It hit me when i wokeup. I was thinking about the NC and About a possible D. What if when i talked to her i offered a compromise.
Um, What if you just let her go? What if you STOP trying to manipulate the outcome?
IF you are a believer, why not turn her/this marriage over to God?
LET HIM CARRY HER...you have to stop the waffling and the deciding when the only real question is
WHEN You are going to let go of the ILLUSION that you ever had control over her?
The sooner you do that, the more intact your self respect will be. AND it so happens that it MIGHT MIGHT be seen as stronger, in your w's eyes.
But it's NOT done FOR That reason.
Now I do not want her to look at me as weak and i do not want to compromise my values, but i also know she is becoming really depressed. so what if i said something to the likes of this. " I will have the command remove the NC if you make a promise to me! Now that promise is this. If i remove NC she Files for D.
I don't understand this "offer" or how it's a compromise. You cannot have the command remove the NC ANYHOW, and she is not likely to keep a promise she's forced to make...(like the "Plan A", etc)
This ^^ really does speak to your need to control. You need to see that.
That way i don't look weak but i am still giving her what she wants. or AM I JUST LOONEY! now this is obviously based on if it is possible to get the Command to drop the NC.
But Even if the command can, so what?
How is this any different than you trying to get her to do something YOU want HER to do?
Stop "negotiating" with her. Let her go. Work on YOU...turn your pain over to God and be the best Rysm you can be.
How are your 180s? And what are your short term goals? Why not make the most of the times she sees you and wish her the best and move forward in your life
and let her start to miss you?
Did you read that LONG post I wrote, about what the WAWs miss?
LET HER MISS YOU...which won't happen if she knows you are "still maneuvering".
Make sense?
For the love of all things holy 25, I am so glad you asked about your earlier long response so I could go and find your reference. I missed previously how much further detail was within the originally posted portion of your post. Valuable, wonderfully thought out, insightful to probably most all of us. Thank you 25 for your time to Rysin, awesome stuff.
I love how blunt you are and i thank you for it. I am trying to figure out how to do things. I do want to let her go but at the same time there is only two options that i see in letting go.
1) is just stop worrying about her, the sitch and just work on me. tell her i cannot lift the NC and just let her make her decisions from there.
2) I can file myself and then she is free to do what she pleases with whomever she wants.
I want to do #1 because i do not want to give up but i do want to let go, i guess i just worry about her holding resentment for my actions regarding the NC, because i did start the process and now no one but his command has control of that sitch. I also interpreted that email as (if the NC is not lifted she is going to believe that i forced her into no other option other than her filing for D.) and i guess that is what worries me because i just dont want to be resented. i do not want to manipulate her or the sitch, i just dont want things to be come malicious.
were you able to read the draft i wrote that i was thinkin of send to W.
as far as my 180's
I really don't have many because we are not really on speaking terms. but one for sure is, when we have had conversations I began to validate and just listen to her feelings instead of trying to express myself.
I stopped checking her emails, texts everything not sure that is a 180.
I began cleaning the entire house without anyhelp.
i always lower to toilet seat as well now that is for sure a 180!
but after that i am kinda confused because we do not live together, rarely ever speak or see one another. How am i suppose to 180 in this situation. I know i can GAL but how do you 180 in that situation?
My short term goals are.
-completing my pre-nursing degree.
-learn how to hanglide.
-run my two miles in 1250
if you mean goals for our relationship.
- i want one conversation to end on a positive note.
- i would like to be civil to one another.
- begin to understand W's feelings and what she is going through.
I did read the long post about WAW begining miss things, and i know that it will happen, i just have to do as you and Starsky said give it over to fate and GOD.
Just came home from gym. Wife is there. I have not gone in, I know I should since it's my house but she is probably waiting to talk with me. What should I do. I think it's too early for commo. If she wants to take just be polite and say I'm not ready?
well I made my choice, I went inside said hello, showered, ca me down started dinner and went to garage to work on harley-davidson. She stayed for an hour. When she started to leave I waved and said bye.
25yr ..whatever you say, it always makes a LOT of sense, not only for the sitch of the person you post it in, but it's also a reminder for everyone else's sitch.
Thank you. You helped me in my sitch earlier on, if you have a few minutes of appreciate your honest opinion on where my own state of mind is right now.
You continuously point out one single thing, that EVERYONE has the most struggle with. Detaching and letting go! I think it's by far the most difficult thing in ones sitch and takes the longest.
Rysin, I feel with you. Duly letting go is a very long and hard process. The thing is the earlier we get this done...truly done, the higher our chances for success. The slim chances of saving our M increase and most importantly that we will be fine/better no matter what!!
I'm slooooowly detavhing more and more, but I feel like a snail. At least it's continuous. And don't underestimate GAL activities in the process of detaching. It's crucial!
Complex, I agree I feel like I am slowly detaching but it feels like a snails pace. But I will continue to push through.
ok i did not want to steal your entire statement Starsky but what do you think about my little edit. i wanted to write more but i help off. thanks again.
W I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done is because I believe them to be right. I have continued to try and fight for our marriage, and I stand by my decisions. I have realized that this situation is no longer working for me and my wellbeing, I can no longer continue to put myself through this, and I am ready to let go so I can better myself and receive what I deserve in this life. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you or your actions. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for the choices you both have already made; the truth about the NC is that; it is in fact legally, out of my hands. The NC was never my request, OM’s Command made that decision. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
I like this even better than my version.
well I made my choice, I went inside said hello, showered, ca me down started dinner and went to garage to work on harley-davidson. She stayed for an hour. When she started to leave I waved and said bye.
GOOD JOB!!
Thanks starsky I had to rewrite like 20 times because I just didn't like how I can across. And I was happy with end result. I was think of saying it face to face.
Face to face is always best. That way, you can personally convey both the firmness, and say it in a calm, loving way. You can always then follow up by email if you feel there's anything you forgot to say, or if you want to clarify something that was said.
Starsky,
thank you i will try and see if i can get a meeting with her in the next few days, I feel i am ready for this next step and i will let you all know how it goes.
Rysm,
I think you handled the interaction really really well. That's great progress.
As for the letter below, definitely IN PERSON is better. The pros and cons of the written word are that you cannot be accused of saying something you did not say if it is in writing BUT yet it can more easily be misconstrued.
Saying things as CALMLY as possible, is extremely important. (I don't think we can over emphasize that...)
In person reduces the risk of something being seen as done or said in anger or sarcasm too. FOR ME, and this might just be a personal preference, I'd make the comments shorter b/c most WAS's tune us out after a few sentences.
It's as if They can't hear us... I'm a lawyer. I recall very specifically thinking, "Wow, if I were arguing my 'case' in front of the Supreme Court, I'd probably 'win', but in front of h, nothing I say matters...he cannot hear me."
Very frustrating to feel you are a "wordsmith" and yet your words are not effective with the partner you chose to spend your life with.
So the shorter, the better is my experience.
Also, the comment about "consequences of your actions" is, imo, unnecessary to say AND critical sounding. It's an obvious reality, but coming from you, will probably sound as if you are lecturing her and saying "You deserve the punishment".
Even if you believe that^^^ to be the truth, why say it? To me, it does not help your cause. And not everything we believe, needs to be said.
At one point when things were turning around for my marriage, I recall a huge negative consequence happening (financially we took a HUGE hit by h's going to Alaska). H said "this was a big mistake". I could have amplified that comment 1000 times, but why? Trust me, it was true and I'd predicted it dozens of times, which h seemed NOT to recall...
yet at that moment, I felt the most loving & healthy thing to say, was nothing.
o- i wanted to write more but i help off. thanks again.
Again, this is a matter of personal preference, but I'd make this (below) a lot shorter. What about just leaving the last part in? No need to defend yourself so much.
Sadly, I think she will tune you out a short way into the "speech" and NOT hear most of what you say, if it's more than a few sentences.
W I understand that you feel I'm doing this to be 'mean,' but I am not. Everything I have done is because I believe them to be right. I have continued to try and fight for our marriage, and I stand by my decisions. I have realized that this situation is no longer working for me and my wellbeing,
I can no longer continue to put myself through this, and I am ready to let go so I can better myself and receive what I deserve in this life. You (and OM) are both free to do whatever you want, you're a grown woman and I have no desire to control you or your actions. You both just need to understand that there are natural consequences for the choices you both have already made; the truth about the NC is that; it is in fact legally, out of my hands. The NC was never my request, OM’s Command made that decision. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I realize now that I deserve better.
Maybe add something optimistic about your future...
(the next comment is just an example, see what Starsky and others think)
"I look forward to finding what I want/need in life & hope the same for you."
As for your 180s, they are NOT all related to your w. In fact, the 180s are things YOU want to work on in yourself regardless of what SHE does/says or thinks.
IF YOU believe you need to, for instance, be more punctual, you set a goal of "arriving early for the next 5 appointments", and then follow thru.
This is for your own personal development, as you become the man you wish to become.
Make sense?
25yearsmlc,
Thank you for your advice i was thinking the same thing about her tuning me out, I can always tell when that switch clicks. I have read the book twice now and i am still confused about 180. the reason being that we do not have much of a interaction and the things i was doing with W i do not do anymore. I.E. aruge, snoop, blame (when we actually talk that is), I now validate. Can you give me an example of how i can 180 in regards to W while we are sep. and not really talking. I am smiling when i see her now, i am now cordial. thank you again.
I love how blunt you are and i thank you for it. I am trying to figure out how to do things. I do want to let her go but at the same time there is only two options that i see in letting go.
1) is just stop worrying about her, the sitch and just work on me. tell her i cannot lift the NC and just let her make her decisions from there.2) I can file myself and then she is free to do what she pleases with whomever she wants.
I want to do #1 because i do not want to give up but i do want to let go,
Personally, I prefer the first option b/c hey, this is "Divorce Busting" and it's rarely in the interest of saving a marriage, to end it.
OTOH, if YOU NEED to file b/c you believe its' the only way to "save yourself", then so be it. No one here would condemn that.
i guess i just worry about her holding resentment for my actions
A HUGE Part of letting go is you NOT worrying about her holding onto resentments. Most women who have affairs, feel justified in them. I know, I'm generalizing but it's based on empirical data.
SOME men can have affairs and sincerely say "meant nothing" but its a rare woman who does. And b/c she has already justified it, the resentments won't fade without TIME (and no actions on your end to increase the resentment).
In other words, you cannot control HOW SHE Feels and so you need to stop spending any energy worrying about it.
Do what you believe to be the right moral thing, and let the cards fall where they will.
regarding the NC, because i did start the process and now no one but his command has control of that sitch. I also interpreted that email as (if the NC is not lifted she is going to believe that i forced her into no other option other than her filing for D.) and
i guess that is what worries me because i just dont want to be resented. i do not want to manipulate her or the sitch, i just dont want things to be come malicious.
Keep it simple, keep it clear in YOUR mind/heart and turn this over to God. Seriously. You'll go nuts and spin your wheels 24/7 if you focus on how YOU think she feels....it's no way to live.were you able to read the draft i wrote that i was thinking of send to W.
Yes, see my earlier post.
as far as my 180's
I really don't have many because we are not really on speaking terms.
Since SHE is NOT relevant to the 180s, this^^ isn't relevant either. Sure, SOME 180s in front of the WAS are nice b/c you want to confuse their negative images of you. It's great when we can CONTRAST & undermine their negative images of us with POSITIVES....
to make their "data" about us, useless. But in the end, 180s are for us.Again
but one for sure is, when we have had conversations
I began to validate and just listen to her feelings instead of trying to express myself.
^^ That's a great listening skill to develop.
I stopped checking her emails, texts everything not sure that is a 180.
I began cleaning the entire house without anyhelp.
i always lower to toilet seat as well now that is for sure a 180!
Those ^^ all are good (on behalf of women everywhere, THANK YOU for lowering the toilet seat.) but after that i am kinda confused because we do not live together, rarely ever speak or see one another. How am i suppose to 180 in this situation. I know i can GAL but
how do you 180 in that situation?
see above comments My short term goals are.
-completing my pre-nursing degree.
-learn how to hanglide.
-run my two miles in 1250
Great goals, (really) but "short term" goals, TO ME, means more like things you can do this month.if you mean goals for our relationship.
- i want one conversation to end on a positive note.
- i would like to be civil to one another.
- begin to understand W's feelings and what she is going through.
Having conversations Not escalate, is a very worthy goal and it IS within your control b/c you can end the conversation if it takes a nosedive.
Say something along the lines of "let's table this discussion for when we are both calm" and or, if you feel attacked, say so.
"W, I feel attacked now. That's not productive so let's table this til we both can speak AND hear each other without attacking." But once you say that, you need to LEAVE the area (unless she apologizes. But don't wait for that).
I did read the long post about WAW beginning miss things, and i know that it will happen, i just have to do as you and Starsky said give it over to fate and GOD.
There were times I'd say (in the shower so the kids didn't think I was nuts)
"God, I turn this anger/pain (OR "Marriage") over to You."
By thinking it, saying it and hearing myself say it, I felt a true calm sweep over me.
SO I began saying it before those times I expected contact from H and it soothed me enough to stay calm in those talks, which led to fewer escalations,
and in time, some more relaxed talks. We built on those (or I did) and my DB coach, (A GODSEND!!!) helped me with that.
I recall one pivotal moment when the electricity was about to be cut off b/c h stopped paying bills for the first time in our m, and omitted telling me that.
(Also that was the day wildfires were approaching our home so I had to evacuate with our 2 ds then, so the timing truly sukked).
I wanted to blast h for the irresponsible even dangerous behavior at the worst possible time. But I had a DB coaching session that day and THEN H called.
Here's what transpired...
ME: "the electricity almost got turned off today b/c the bill had not been paid. I wanted---"
H interrupts: "Well now YOU know what it's like to have to pay all those bills like I have for over 20 years!"
ME: "True, & I want to thank you for that b/c it really can be stressful."
H: (long pause): "you're welcome".
After that, something happened in the both of us. I stopped attacking, and he stopped defending.
Since my real goal (I mean, the noble goal, not the "Blast h" goal) was better communication with h,
this 'moment' was indeed transformational for me. Pivotal for us.
Not sure if that clarifies anything for you, but I thought I'd share that.
Keep on keeping on, Rys. You're a good man and in time that will show.
Good memories will resurface in your w, if you let them. Let her sit with the choices she has made and is making, without you challenging them.
Do you get that? Does it make sense to you?
Good luck.
HINT: Stop worrying about "what they portray," and instead -- in each situation -- strive to do The Right Thing.
And then let the chips fall where they may.
this^^^^
The above comment was meant to edited but i guess i ran out of time. In reading your post it finally clicked. So this the edited version.
25yearsmlc,
Thank you for your advice i was thinking the same thing about her tuning me out, I can always tell when that switch clicks. Ok so GAL are just activities and 180 are true aspects of myself that i would like to change. Correct! If that is true the most important 180 that i want to change is my ability to just listen without interupting and following up with my input all the time. I have worked hard on this for a few years and i actually got really good at it but through this process i seem to have gotten back to my old ways.
Another 180 i would like to work on is trying not to dominate a conversation, i tend to want to talk alot. Not in a dickish way but i tend to do alot of talking.
those are two 180 i would like to change about myself.
I think i do understand and it does make sense. this is what i have infered from all of this. I need to just breath, live for me and not worry about the past. W will resent me whether i want her to or not until she comes to terms with herself. I can only influence me and what i need to do. Self Positive reinforcement can help and work wonders along with giving a good piece of mind. Trying to control any volitile situation is pointless, especially one bubbling with emotions. The hardest but best course of action is to just let go try and focus on myself and see where the chips fall. In the end only she will decide whether she wants to be with me or not. That is my take on this entire thing. I am ready for this, for two days i have continued to tell myself that i deserve to be treated better and i derserve to be loved the right way. I have wokeup two days straight feeling better and lighter then i have in a long time. I will continue to grow and be the man she will miss and wish she still had. but more than that i am going to be the man that is happy with himself and knows who and what he is and This man will one day find someone who is willing to give me what i know i deserve!
Wow, well said.
Keep talking (to yourself that is) about this b/c it helps. And it's true.
DB 101 is "do what works and do none or less of what does Not work." At its' heart its about you being the best YOU that you can be.
That is always a good & worthy goal.
((( )))
after reading DB twice i have started to realize more and more that its all about the things you do for you. Those things will untimately change the sitch and possibly your Spouses outlook as well. I have started reading it a third time. then i will start on DR.
this is my new conversation what do you think. is it still too long?
W I understand that you feel I have done everything to be 'mean, and manipulate you' but it was never my intent. The truth about the NC is that; it is in fact legally, out of my hands. The NC was never my request, OM’s Command made that decision. Frankly I've already wasted too much of my valuable life on this and I know that I deserve better. I look forward to finding what I need and deserve in my life & hope the same for you no matter what that is.
Wow, well said.
Keep talking (to yourself that is) about this b/c it helps. And it's true.
DB 101 is "do what works and do none or less of what does Not work." At its' heart its about you being the best YOU that you can be.
That is always a good & worthy goal.
((( )))
Can I sign that?
You cannot describe DBing shorter and more efficient than this.
Regarding your text Raysin. I don't think it matters is you still shorten it. It won't come down to having a sentence more or less. The key message is in there. It sounds very final but I guess that is the "purpose" or goal of letting truly go.
It sounds very final but I guess that is the "purpose" or goal of letting truly go.
I'll disagree with you, Complex.
It isn't
final, because none of us really knows how it ends.
However, it is very
directional, and that is the goal of letting go -- the point at which we decide for ourselves what our future is -- it doesn't preclude anyone from joining us, and we're not excluding anyone, but by God, we're moving in a direction
we've chosen out of strength not fear, and that feels very, very good.
Agreed. It leaves room for interpretation of the outcome.
I love how you defined detachment.
So does everyone approve of my wording? Because I am going to try and talk to her friday.
woke up feeling pretty good today, as long as i keep talking to myself and giving self reasureance i know that i will continue this upward trend. sure there will be downs but I am excited to see how many ups i have coming my way?
woke up feeling pretty good today, as long as i keep talking to myself and giving self reasureance i know that i will continue this upward trend. sure there will be downs but I am excited to see how many ups i have coming my way?
As long as you make good decisions and treat yourself well you will have many more ups coming up ahead of you.
Part of treating yourself well is not allowing "friends" to take advantage of you, and that includes a wife or husband. It is OK to help a friend, but one who consistently hurts and betrays you and does things hurtful to you, is that a friend anymore?
One of my favorite quotes from Henry Ford
"If you think the can or can't do something you are right"
or something like that
I love it thank you so much! I am gonna use that a lot in the coming months.
Today is the day The Butterfly gets set free. Wish me luck and the strength to stay neutral, compassionate, strong in my convictions and solid as a rock in my values. I am saddened but excited for this new chapter and what life has in store for me. All i know is NEVER say NEVER. But it is time to chose my road and start my journey.
Oops, typo correction. Sorry Henry Ford
"If you think you can or can't do something, you are right"
So is there a suggestion to the time length of this conversation. The one thing i do not want to do is once i have said what i want and let her go, i do not want to give the idea or impression that i am flip flopping. Or should i just say what i want to say and nicely end the conversation.
The latter. If you hover, it looks like you're hanging around for a response, and that what you just said was merely a TACTIC. If you end it and leave not LOOKING for any response, it conveys more that this is how you feel REGARDLESS of if or how she reacts.
Ok that is what i was thinking, so if she still wants to talk after what i have to say what then just kindly tell her "w what i have said is all i came to say, I do not feel continuing this conversation will provide any progress." how does that sound
Ok that is what i was thinking, so if she still wants to talk after what i have to say what then just kindly tell her "w what i have said is all i came to say, I do not feel continuing this conversation will provide any progress." how does that sound
It sounds wordy & unnecessary. Say what you want, then get up to leave,
with a polite "see ya later" gesture. Then go.
IF IF & ONLY IF - SHE wants to tell you something, then you politely listen.
Hear her.
Chances are, you will feel Either 1) hurt/offended OR 2) confused/hopeful -
but for either/both of those circumstances, just say you "need time to process that" and then get moving.
If I had to predict, I'd expect her to say something short & simple, perhaps angry, and that you will only digest much later.
If VERY pressed to say more OR if you feel the need to defend yourself - KEEP IT SHORT. You can always say "If I had it all to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently",
but don't apologize for anything other than what you truly feel YOU did wrong. Remember that you CANNOT control how she views you. Even if you could control it, it could change in a day or month or year...
This is about you letting her go. (IF need be, maybe just say that.)
Thank you so much you always have a good and enlightening way of putting things. i will shorten it up a little bit more, But all in all i have been prepping myself for this moment and i am at peace with this. and i am ready to begin my journey. thank you.
The latter. If you hover, it looks like you're hanging around for a response, and that what you just said was merely a TACTIC. If you end it and leave not LOOKING for any response, it conveys more that this is how you feel REGARDLESS of if or how she reacts.
HEAR THIS^^^...
Waiting for her to say anything, will reveal this "letting go" to be a ruse.
Don't do this at all, if you are not ready for her to accept it at face value and say "good, thanks", AND OR for her to react in anger and blame AND OR with indifference. This is about you letting her go.
You seem to have the need to say it, rather than simply doing it. That's fine.
IF you are ready for the above reactions (or lack of any visible one) and ONLY IF YOU ARE READY for that,
then do this.
[quote=RysinMn]Thank you so much you always have a good and enlightening way of putting things. i will shorten it up a little bit more, But all in all i have been prepping myself for this moment and i am at peace with this. and i am ready to begin my journey. thank you. [/quote
Well okay then! Life will get better, and that's something I'm positive of.
GOOD LUCK!
Thank you... Like i said. I am letting go not giving up! I am putting this into fates hands and i am ready to live for me and better myself and see what comes my way. I love her enough to let her go. and i really am at peace with it. thank you again.
Thank you... Like i said. I am letting go not giving up! I am putting this into fates hands and i am ready to live for me and better myself and see what comes my way. I love her enough to let her go. and i really am at peace with it. thank you again.
What was "wrong" with you in the first place. There may well have been nothing wrong except you put too much stock in her and too little in yourself. Enjoy your life and do things you really want to do. And yes, being cheated on is a great time to go after self improvement efforts.
You might not get your wife back, but with enough self esteem and awareness you may very well receive a woman who appreciates a man like you, and is also good for you.
Thank you... Like i said. I am letting go not giving up! I am putting this into fates hands and i am ready to live for me and better myself and see what comes my way. I love her enough to let her go. and i really am at peace with it. thank you again.
You're very welcome. FTR, if you decide to make the military a career, talk about extended separations with any woman you consider marrying. Along with moving every 2-4 years...it's not for everyone and that's alright. But it's really crucial to know.
Also, your words above, ^^ could be your new mantra. It's close to what I told myself back in 2006-/08.
I'd carry around a few phrases that comforted and guided me, like short prayers & pep talks. Especially right before I thought h would contact me.
And,
I turned it over to God. Yes, sometimes I'd "take it back" from Him the next day, but the next day/hour, I'd force myself to again turn it over.
In the end, if we KNOW we have done our best to become our best, that just has to be enough.
Learning to let go and walk away with your head held high, at peace - regardless of outcome, is an incredible gift to give yourself.
That talk does nothing to emphasize the reality lol. She was a military brat. 26 years dad served
You two are on a roll today. Just reading helps a lot sometimes.
Time for a new thread Rysin!
Never forget too: God does NOT want divorce! He is your greatest supporter of all.
"Learning to let go and walk away with your head held high, at peace - regardless of outcome, is an incredible gift to give yourself."
Isn't it just Rysin, isn't it just? Dealing with that kind of pain and getting to that kind of place are indeed great gifts in life. Good luck to you my friend...((Rysin))
So yesterday was an adventure. I met my W at Starbucks. I said exactly what I planed to say maybe a few extra words but all in all I got the message across. She sat and listened. As I stood up to leave she asked me if I was willing to write a letter to OM's command requesting to drop the NC. I said W I am not going to do anything for or against this marriage, and I am going to look forward for me.
She said well if you are serious about moving on this is what I need from you. And then she says. "just because you say it's over doesn't mean it's over. We still need to be amicable to one another. I responded with "I need space and quietness at the moment and I would appreciate if you respected that.
How did I do?
So yesterday was an adventure. I met my W at Starbucks. I said exactly what I planed to say maybe a few extra words but all in all I got the message across. She sat and listened. As I stood up to leave she asked me if I was willing to write a letter to OM's command requesting to drop the NC.
"Gee wife, one-note-tune much??"
So yesterday was an adventure. I met my W at Starbucks. I said exactly what I planed to say maybe a few extra words but all in all I got the message across. She sat and listened. As I stood up to leave she asked me if I was willing to write a letter to OM's command requesting to drop the NC. I said W I am not going to do anything for or against this marriage, and I am going to look forward for me.
She said well if you are serious about moving on this is what I need from you. And then she says. "just because you say it's over doesn't mean it's over. We still need to be amicable to one another. I responded with "I need space and quietness at the moment and I would appreciate if you respected that.
How did I do?
Right! She didn't want you to be the one to dump her. Now you see how they are. You were the fallback guy, her main supporter. Now you are going to remove your foundation so she can see how she is on her own.
Good job, Rysin.