http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536529#Post2536529Had to start a new thread, as my last was over the limit. Tough couple days at the house. Aparently she's leaving to go to her cousins with the kids for the weekend. Nothing spoken between us for the past two days, other than. "What are your plans today, the fridge is bare and I have to go out grocery shopping"...she's out now. I'm hoping she brings my work money back with her (as its been going into her account for past 6 months). I'd like to go out today once her and the kids are gone, buy some new clothes for dance class, buy some cologne, some razors (I used shave my head to the wood when we met), and think about some things I can do to 180 this situation.
I was talking to some of the divorced women at work yesterday. They told me the exact same thing you all are. Not too worry about it - she'll seem happy, pissed, hurt..whatever she decides to portray...but she'll be thinking about what's happening.
I havent' been too successful with following my plan. I've been moneyless, so, it's been difficult to just "go out". I have a firm plan for this coming week. I'll be at the gym whenever I want, I start dancing Thursday (and will look awesome and smell great, shave, ect. before I leave the house). And, I've decided I will have no fear of being in the same room as her so I can play with my kids. Just have to pretend she's not there, and put on a strong face.
Inside? Yup, still [censored] bad. Hurts like hell.
I'm hoping she brings my work money back with her (as its been going into her account for past 6 months).
You're kidding.
Well, I read through your threads. I heard a lot of she she she, her her her, and wife this and wife that. Still don't know your plan. Do you?
Nope, no joke, all my money has been going into her account since August. She thought I spent frivolously. Have some today. Plan, well, detach and GAL. Apparently not going to cousins, Aunt is busy. Sooo. Since she'll be home, I'm going to go out. Actually, I got half of the money I'm owed, so I'm going shopping for clothes and my cologne, ect. for an hour or two. I'll come home, whip something up for the kids for dinner, and I think I may just go out to see a movie. I dont want to, but, I dont want to be here, sitting around with my thoughts either.
She mentioned taking the kids to "Frosty Fest" (whatever that is) on Sunday.
Well, went out. Didn't get home until almost 1am. I heard she was awake moving around, but surprisingly she didnt confront me on my whereabouts like she did before. Maybe it doesnt bother her. Maybe it does, but she wont say anything. Can't tell, she doesnt really look at me anymore.
Hi Mac
Forgive me for not looking back in your sitch to check this, but I presume you'll be making early arrangements to re-route that income into your own account. Presumably then you could just transfer funds needed for bills, food etc into an account your W can use?
Ya, she has control until my next pay period, in two weeks, then, it will go into my account. Unsure of the situation though. I dont think she's filing (who knows, maybe she is), as I haven't seen any lawyer stuff up on the net history. She seems pretty set on staying in the house, and advised by my lawyer not to leave. Pretty well, walk on eggshells environment. Kids are spending more time with me downstairs, she's upstairs watching TV (when not on the phone). Dying to go up and be in the same room, but must detach.
Nothing seems to phase her.
Started some 180's today. I stopped doing dishes LONG ago, or making supper for everyone. Today I'm doing both, and will continue unless she has planned on cooking something for herself or the kids. Not much else I can think of when it comes to 180's. Dying to see a change. But, she heads upstairs to use that bloody phone whenever she can.
Not much else I can think of when it comes to 180's.
All you can think to do is wash dishes and cook?
Gee Mac, if she spends all her time upstairs, what did you and the kids use to do for dinner?
While you are thinking about 180's, I suggest you begin searching for something you truly enjoy. Preferably, something that gets you away from the house. Try something new. Getting a life for "you" is critical b/c it improves your outlook, energy level, confidence, social skills, makes you more interesting, etc. It especially helps with detaching. It puts some space between you and the place where you feel you have to work on egg shells.
Consider what you can do to be a better father. What can you do with your kids to enrich your R with them?
What are some ways you need to improve as a man? Anything? Personality, behavior, habits, grooming, relationships?
Do you have any goals for yourself? Goals in home projects, work, places to see, etc.?
Think about some of this to get your wheels spinning into some personal plan for "you" and then we can talk about a plan for the MR.
Oh, and have you read Divorce Remedy?
Dying to see a change. But, she heads upstairs to use that bloody phone whenever she can.
Are you talking about seeing a change in "her"? Forget it. Not going to happen as long as her H tiptoes around on egg shells while she's carrying on an A via electronic devices.
Mac, you can't sit around hoping she will change. You have to take the bull by the horns.
I meant not actually much more I can do when IN the house. The kids usually ate upstairs in front of the TV, I tried to get everyone to sit at a table, but, because they fussed, it was canned the kids went back to the TV. I have things I can do, absolutely, but its like -30 out right now, or I'd be gone to the gym. We only have the 1 vehic, and its pretty far. Warms up tomorrow. I'd like to get out, absolutely.
As far as the kids, I'm spending more time with them. Their coming down the basement tonight to watch a movie. I'll make the popcorn, get the blankets, ect. No vehicle puts me at a disadvantage for going far. I'd LOVE to be able to take off, but alas, two feet and a heartbeat.
I feel guilty too, when I have been leaving, as I feel like if I'm not around the kids, that too could be used against me.
Haven't read it, only ordered it a few days ago on Starky's advice. Can't wait though. I want to wake up, smile, and think "It's gonna be an awesome day" and carry on. As far as home projects, not realy. I've been on the computer alot doing my practice exams for the Police Department I'd like to apply to.
Yeah, talking about seeing change in her. I'know, not until I'm not here as often as I have been
Ahh, only -20 tomorrow, balmy 8). I'll be hitting the gym, maybe spark up a conversation with whoever's around. Work 11-8 Tues and Wed. Gym each night after that too. Will be gone from the house at least 13hrs each night. Dancing Thursday night, work late Friday (till 12).
My son told me last night before I went out to the movies, that "mom" asked him where I was going. He was up there telling her as I was ready to go out the door, "daddy's leaving mommy" and gone I was. It was nice to know she asked tho'
Please mac don't forget about yourself. It really sounds like you are highly dependent on W. Which is very unhealthy, for any kind of relationship.
You have to learn how to respect and love yourself first, before you can truly live someone else and have a healthy relationship.
In your words I'm also missing a heatlhy does of "anger"..Don't get me wrong, anger is not good!!!! But you are allowed and should be healthyly angry towards her for what she is doing. I hope no one gets me wrong here, and please don't tell her about being angry. But inside yourself you need to protect yourself, defend yourself, create boundaries for yourself for what is acceptable for you and what not. So maybe I shouldn't call it a anger, but it's a human reaction too. Do you feel any of this of how would you describe your feelings right now?
All this is not about her anymore! It's about YOU
Had a brief exchange while I made dinner for the kids (ya, she had her share too). I was in the kitchen, she came in stared at me while my back was turned (saw her out of the corner of my eye). She asked what I was making. I told her Steak, asparagus, pan fried mushrooms, corn, potatoes and brocoli. I said I was going to make it yesterday, she asked "why didnt you?" (sorta didn't like her tone). I said, I was out, when I came back in, you already had something in the oven. She noticed I have new clothes...she asked "do you need to be dressed up to make supper?" hmm..she noticed. I can't wait till tomorrow to just bugger off and go to the gym. Pretty sure she's also checking my texts. Sent one to a boss today, usually phone blinks when i have a txt. No blinking, then I find I have two replies. I'm honestly surprised she noticed the clothes.
Want to watch a movie with the kids upstairs, but she's lounging on the couch. That [censored]. Shouldn't be around her.
Anger? Oh hell no, I'm friggin pissed. I want to call that A-hole, or grab the phone from her when I know he's on it. I'm not exactly all chuckles over her right now, all smug and up and down the stairs from the living room to the bedroom to chat on the phone. The fact that I sleep on the floor in the basement while she's upstairs.
I've read some posts, I've almost contemplated going up as she hangs on the couch late at night watching tv, and just go to bed up there like I used to. Sure, she'd bitch, but at least I could tell her it was my bed too, and she can feel free to sleep on the couch. It would be a REALLY big fight though, that would push her sooo far.
I wouldn't really say I'm reliant. I guess Complex, I just miss the wife I had 4 weeks ago. SO not her, so not our house. I ain't rich, I dont drive (a car, I have a motorcycle), I make ends meet with just above min wage. Detaching would be awesome, If I didn't feel guilty everytime I leave the house and my kids are here; or, if I had the money to go somewhere. Im squirelling it away, "just in case" I get hit with something unexpected. Not only that, but winter here. For instance, she mentioned I was dressed up while I made dinner today...would've been perfect to say, that yes, I have plans to head out...but, it's -30 right now, I'd freeeeze outside walking anywhere close enough to spend any amount of time in. Playing pool, the gym, coffee, running at the track..ect. I just can't believe she can do this [censored], without any regard for the past 6yrs, and yet EVERYONE can see her fantasy's a pipe dream. I've usually just cut and run when I get a nutter (high school, ect.) But this is my wife. I can't do that..hell, I don't even "know" why. I just feel that I have to, she was all I had (not speaking of a life, just...special.
So ya, I'm angry. Pisses me off I see nothing in her though. Today the clothes, a few days ago pissed I went out and thought I lied....geez, even last night I left at 930 until almost 1am...not even a question as to why, or where I went. I know she was awake, I heard her upstairs, but I liken it to probably on the phone with A-hole.
Mac,I feel your anger, your pain. I delicately relate to the guilt for leaving the kids when you are normally the one doing the work.
You HAVE to enforce some of your boundaries. Otherwise she will lose any respect for you, if she didn't already. Of course there is s danger it'll pull her far away. Yes it will...temporarily. And it'll hurt you. But down the road, believe me, you won't regret making her angry. She's the one who is doing this, NOT YOU. So she has to feel some consequences too.
If the bed thing is an issue. Don't just go up there and sleep. Tell her that this is your bed too. If necessary and helping avoiding a big fight compromise with her. That's what I did. A week her in the bed, a week you. That's what I'm doing right now. Solved a potential huge discussion, enforces at least some boundary.
Read as much as you possibly can on this forum. It'll help!!! You need the knowledge to control yourself, deal with your situation and to become a better person. You are here for a reason, are you?
...Well that's just a kick in the nuts. Tabby came down, told the kids if they wanted to go, then it was time to go (to a festival downtown-"Frosty Fest". Didn't even ask if I'd like to come.
The boundaries I'd like to enforce, such as, not talking to this idiot in our house, take it outside...I've told her. I can't "enforce" that. She does what she likes anyway. Will be putting the kids to bed tonight, and going out.
Boundaries are sth for yourself. What you allow for yourself. Not for other people. Enforcing them would mean for example if she is lying to you and you KNOW you could tell her I know you are lying, I can't talk to you like this. And then leave the room/house. That's a boundary.
Rough situation for you. Who is paying the rent and the bills?
Could you get some local help, like free Christian counseling, marriage support groups? Anything? Going out for drinks is also not a good idea. You have to focus. Did you read Michelle's book?
I was wrong. And, surprised. About 5 mins after I posted she was heading out with the kids, she came downstairs and said "you know you can come if you want". So I agreed, she asked how long it would take till I'm ready "5 mins" was the answer. I mentioned 'revamping' the basement, she didn't know what I meant.
I have alot of boxes with military gear, junk, ect in them in the basement (its not exactly 'nice' looking). Told her I was planning on making it nice, cleaning it up. I know she doesn't believe me, I've been saying it for at least 6 months. I'm going to do it (she'll be surprised..one of her complaints was that I say something, but don't follow through, this time, I will. All and all the outing was short, only and hour. She talked (maybe to herself?) ..can't find parking here, car isn't heating up fast enough..ect. ect. I said nothing. I was the best with the kids though, cotton candy, ect...it was nice. Hardest part was being out with her, when she wasn't looking, I couldn't help but to think of how lucky I am/was. She's gorgeoius. She mentioned that next year, its a festival 'we' should avoid. Of course, 'we' can be her and the kids. Called around, there are a few bars open tonight. Though she hated my driking, i'm going to go out...even for a few hours. For me. Well, honestly two fold...I want to see if there will be a reaction again. Shower, cologne, and out the door. Play some pool I suppose. It was wierd...though were out as a 'family' it felt 'normal'. sorta.
Complex, your boundaries post above hits home. Mac00, I hate that feeling of feeling almost guilty for leaving the kids at home to go out and do something for yourself. Can't wait for the weather to get nicer when free things outside can be enjoyed. Hang in there sir.
I was wrong. And, surprised. About 5 mins after I posted she was heading out with the kids, she came downstairs and said "you know you can come if you want". So I agreed, she asked how long it would take till I'm ready "5 mins" was the answer. I mentioned 'revamping' the basement, she didn't know what I meant.
I have alot of boxes with military gear, junk, ect in them in the basement (its not exactly 'nice' looking). Told her I was planning on making it nice, cleaning it up. I know she doesn't believe me, I've been saying it for at least 6 months. I'm going to do it (she'll be surprised..one of her complaints was that I say something, but don't follow through, this time, I will. All and all the outing was short, only and hour. She talked (maybe to herself?) ..can't find parking here, car isn't heating up fast enough..ect. ect. I said nothing. I was the best with the kids though, cotton candy, ect...it was nice. Hardest part was being out with her, when she wasn't looking, I couldn't help but to think of how lucky I am/was. She's gorgeoius. She mentioned that next year, its a festival 'we' should avoid. Of course, 'we' can be her and the kids. Called around, there are a few bars open tonight. Though she hated my driking, i'm going to go out...even for a few hours. For me. Well, honestly two fold...I want to see if there will be a reaction again. Shower, cologne, and out the door. Play some pool I suppose. It was wierd...though were out as a 'family' it felt 'normal'. sorta.
It be best if you stopped looking for "reactions". That's the danger of posting and keeping up with the sitches on these boards. I'd wait several weeks for positive change of any kind and a true A to recovery might be over several years of time.
Go out, drink, do what you want because it feels good for you.
Yes sir...I hate leaving the kids. First and foremost, an admission. I've spent my time away from them. Same house, but in the basement. I've been wanting to join a police department for so long, that I've spent every waking hour I can practicing the exams, reading, finishing highschool, getting my drivers license...I honestly haven't been that great of a father.
Sure, when we were all together, it was nothing, I loved it...but at home, I was always in front of this bloody computer, foresaking her, and the kids. I get troubled, for GAL involves me not being here still...meaning, perhaps in her mind, I'm doing the same, and it [censored]. Today when we were out, I was attentive, especially to my little 3yr old..not because I 'had' to, to show her what I can be like, but because I wanted to. Love em' to pieces. A great father is an attractive thing, they say...well, a great father I want to be. Not for 'her'..but for me. No matter what happens, I'll surpass the father I had as a kid, and will be missed if/when I'm out of the picture. Hoping it doesn't get there, but thats not for me to decide.
I'll be putting them to bed, grabbing a shower right afterwards, and getting out of this house. I need it.
Sitting in the house is mind-numbing. I can sit here and 'think' about the phone ringing for her, or her texts, or I can not be here and perhaps actually have a good time. I chose the latter. Time for the big boy pants
Oh, and yes, though drinking was brought up, and has been an issue for her, I'm going to head there anyway. I have no intention of getting trashed, or even 'feeling good'. I'm going to have a beer, maybe two, and play pool. There's not much else I can do to get out and GAL in this fridgid cold. But its better not to be here as much as I am. I understand that I could invite stupidity by going overboard...or by inviting 'relations' with someone else from the bar. I'm not interested. Just want to go, have a beer, maybe two, watch some TV (I dont do that anymore) and play some pool/snooker. I plan on returning around 1130pm. She heads off to bed then, and I have work in the a.m.
Gotta ask again: did you read DB or DR yet?
It's important!
Hang in there. Focus on YOURSELF. Not on W. I know it's hard. You have to go through the jungle of emotions but self reflect a lot too. It's all about you now.
The books aren't here yet.
GAL is more than just going out. There are so many other things you can do. Take up a new hobby, read a good book, etc. That will make you a much stronger person inside and out.
New hobby starts Thursday, Dancing. (YAY) Always wanted to learn how to Tango!
New hobby starts Thursday, Dancing. (YAY) Always wanted to learn how to Tango!
Your going to have a blast. And if you are in a WAW situation, you are going to feel a whole lot better having that body contact from a responsive and conducive female.
I've been reading a lot on here for 6 months. From what I have gathered is you need to get back in YOUR bed. Get out of the basement. It is she who should be leaving the bed to conduct her A. She should be the one hiding in the basement with her A.
Also, do you pay for her phone? If you do I would consider ending that. You should not facilitate the affair by paying for it to continue. I don't mean to grab the phone and smash it (I did that, oops), just if she wants to continue that activity she has to pay for it herself and not with money you earn for the family. I would think it completely appropriate to stop paying for things with family money that is bad for the family.
Thoughts? When I exposed her EA to everyone I could, one of the recipients was my mother in law. I sent out the private emails on Feb. 7th. Apparently, it was read on the 10th by her mom. Her mom, I can now confirm, called my mom most likely to talk about what's going on. My mom never returned the call, as she couldn't confirm the number. Its my impression, that Tabby (because I know for fact she lies to my face) most likely isn't confiding the truth to her mom when they talk and text. And I'm guessing its almost daily.
I noticed in a text, her mom is taking interest in how things at the house are going. I made a nice dinner on the 15th. Happened to wear some new clothes, and admittedly, looked pretty good. It was passed on to her mother, as, last night, she asked Tabby via text "how was last night?". Tabby replied " what was last night?", her mother replied "Aaron made dinner..." No further response was made. Here's my question. Now that I know it WAS her mom that called mine (probably to verify my account off what was happening in our marriage was real), should I have my mom return the call? My mom was a shrink for many years until she retired, and honestly, is pretty good with figuring out others and their motives. She's a straight shooter, pull no punches person. I don't want Tabby's family offering one-sided support if they are unaware of what went on in the house..and I really don't want it to appear that my mother couldn't care enough to return a call.
Two days until dance class...SWEET!
You are trying to control everything again. First off, you shouldn't have exposed to everyone like that. Since you already have, you can talk about it to your mom and let decide on what to do from there.
I thought I was doing the right thing by exposing the affair. Trying to end it by exposing it.
You really need to read the books when you get them. You will find out real fast that it may not work the way you expected it to. By exposing it to EVERYONE, you embarrass your W and they will all look at her in a different light. Why would she want to come back to you if you embarrassed her?
Dancing in less than 24hrs! Looking forward to it. Last night, she checked my phone (again), I havent said anything. Was flashing with a msg when I left it in the kitchen, hr later, no longer flashing. Since she has control of the money, I had to ask for 40 today. I plan onl going out after I go dancing, and having a bite to eat.
She was upset today, when she gave me the money...sent me home from work 5hr early as they didnt' want me to go into overtime for the week...absolutely surprised, she was. I sent a txt to her asking if she would get me 40 out...dint mention for what. Wehn I got home, she brought it to the basesmnt....looked pissy... like she knows I'll use it to go out again. GAL is tough. Read the first chapter of DB...sooo unsure what to do. Went to check her email today, pw changed. Now have keylogging software installled.
Question: Now that I have the kelogging, ect. installed, if I find something on my computer to someone else, do I "lock" her out with a PW and leave a note saying I'm not enabling the behavoiur, or do I say nothinjg?
If you in any way let her know you spied (for example, by locking her out)
1) she will be furious, not that that is your primary concern, but she will be,
2) she (and a L) may school you on the legality of key loggers
3) she will go deeper underground so you don't see what she's doing, so you will effectively lose your intel source for ever after.
4) It is highly improbable that you telling her you "know something" is going to have any positive impact.
You have to be very, very careful in handling anything you learn.
You should really use what you learn only to protect yourself. (financially, legally). Intel is mainly to prevent you from being blindsided. It is useless for pretty much anything else.
And you should realize what you said there... "I'm not enabling the behavior." The thing is, you aren't enabling the behavior, and you can't and shouldn't try to control her behavior. Changing a password is trying to control her. That move will get you nowhere fast; to her, it will justify whatever she is doing because you are such a parental, overbearing so and so.
Gotchya. I'm concerned though. After "I" decided to say, no, you can move, and after "I" got legal counsel, I've noticed nothing. Nothing online in the history regarding lawyers or legal proceedings. I was 'told' that she had contacted 'legal aid' here in Ontario, almost a week ago to get paperwork (whatever that is). But nothing. She looked at housing twice in the last well, 3 weeks alltogether, and it was WAY overpriced. She looked at jobs (something she hasn't had 'no belittlement here') in 6yrs, other than waitress in a bar, and home daycare (which she is good at). Other than that, it's like she's just planning on living in the same house for as long as possible...honestly, it's driving me crazy. I see nothing at all. I cant really say I'm SO surprised, as she doesnt follow through with much (and I dont mean that to be sarcastic or rude). First she was going to be a cop, then an insurance agent, then dropped that after spending hundreds on books, then a real estate agent, then back to insurance, now back to cop. It's tedious. I play with the kids when Im not owrking, even talk to them/interact alot more than I ever have (and I regretted that), but, I dont know what to expect. In detaching, I go out, try to have a good time, meet new people..ect. But I come home, and it's like she's all comfy on a couch and says NOTHING at all. I get so bloody frustrated.
Sorry, just seems like anything I do is for naught.
@#$%$% up though. Tonight I mentioned my phone. Not angry, nice an calm...How it had stopped blinking last night, when it was left ont he table. She said she didn't check...she was calm, ect. Mentioned maybe the kids took it, but she knows when I came home they were in bed. She knows that "I" know she looked, but, surprisingly calm.
Unsure if things are getting to her. With the checking of my phone (the day we had a blowout about who's moving out, and again the night before last), I've noticed she went shopping last night and picked up a bunch of books to read. She doesn't read all that much, normally is a play games on the phone or crossword puzzles sort of person. Hoping reading the (Twighligh) books is for her to keep her mind occupied. Asked my older son if he'd be interested in karate..he's only 5, but wants to learn. Something I'll look into for us to do together. Unsure about conversations with OM. Admittedly haven't heard them chatting early in the morning as of late, perhaps she's just being more careful
Hers a quick question: what's the point of a was deleting her texts and incoming/outgoing calls if she's been caught, knows I know it continues, and knows I have the evidence I needed to be certain?
Shame is the answer Mac00 IMO
Just because you know, doesn't mean WAW wants you reading her personal love story.
Thanks. At least its AN emotion. She's been like a status for days.
Not that she's trying to save the M, but when reading your last several posts, it sounds as if she is DBing you. You come in after GAL and it doesn't phase her. She stays all cool and calm, and giving vague answers.
You are the one who is living in frustration, Mac. Don't you think it needs to be reversed? It sounds as if she has chosen Starsky's # 1. She seems perfectly content.
Ok, here's a cap of whats transpired in the past number of days. Approx. 5 days ago, I checked her phone. I found ALL kinds of sexual stuff on it between her and the OM. BUT, I also noticed something change in Tabby. She had told me that hadn't had her emotional needs met...one of the msgs she sent to him, said something along the lines of "..y'know there's more to this than just the sexting" and mentioned actual feelings. His response? Something like "you know I gotta feed the ego."....She also mentioned that she was feeling ignored (as I can only assume the two hadn't been talking for awhile, and he didn't answer her texts. I knew in all eventuality, that he would distance himself from any "relationship" talk, as, he's there to (as he said himself) "feed his ego".
Regardless, seeing the texts, I was pissed, and I confronted Tabby. I wasn't mean, or angry, I just told her that I had wished she could've shared herself like that with me in this marriage.
Of course, it turned into an arguement. I eventually, after telling her 'yes, this is how I feel' - that if she's going to continue, than she can get the paperwork, and file for the divorce she wants so bad. She said, "dont you think I've talked to a lawyer?" Of course not, she's been lying to my face. And shortly afterwards, she admitted she had not. I called mine in front of her right there and then, made an appointment, and told him (in front of her) that we should be expecting paperwork with her filing.
She began mentioning my GAL. I've been dressing nice, going out, talking with and meeting new people, ect. I've been going to the gym, dancing, playing pool, ect. She lost it on me. Told me NO ONE ever gets dressed the way I do, shaves, polishes shoes, and goes out, unless there's someone on the side. She was livid. I explained that I'm going out for me, and moving on with my life, as she mentioned many times "we're done", and that she is in an affair. I told her I was preparing myself for her departure.
She immediately got on the phone, called her mom. She told her mom that I was being an a$$hole, and the OM had been ignoring her. She reiterated to her mom, that I was going out, and of course, it had to be with someone else (which has never happened). Her mother subsequently, posted on my Facebook account. Her mother stated "do your friends and mom know where you go at night and with who? Be honest with yourself. She then stated I am a horrible person to treat her daughter and the kids the way I am, by wanting my wife to move out. The third and final thing she said, was that if I had a heart, and ever found it, that I'd realize that deep down, tabby was unhappy in the marriage a long time ago, and that her wanting someone else didn't cause this.
I defended myself of course, but realized later, that was a mistake. Being innocent of anything, I should be happy with just that. By engaging with her mom, I just bring more resentment and fuel a crappy situation.
Tabby and I talked again two days ago. We actually 'talked' without yelling. I reiterated that I fully accept the fact that I had appeared distant to her. I explained again the way men and women communicate, and what I've learned from MWD books and videos (he says this, she 'hears' this and vice versa). For the first time in SO long, she spoke by telling me exactly what she wanted and exactly what she felt bringing up different situations. And by her being open, I told her, "That, I can understand", "That, I hear" and that "That, is exactly how we're meant to talk". It was the most pleasant we've spoken since this all happened at the beginning of the month. I mentioned her mother's involvement, Tabby said her mother was just angry, and that, I can understand. She's confused, as she hears all the negative justification from Tabby about "what he's doing when out, ect.
Tabby also said, 'When you go out, dressed to the 9's, what am "I" SUPPOSED to think. Thing is folks, she 'left' the marriage and is tuned out. She should be happy in her new 'relationship', but just how happy is she? She mentioned she's not sleeping much, because of the situation - she should be fine! My mom (the shrink), thinks that things are probably not going to well with her OM. She also believes that Tabby is in a "waffling" mind right now...that things are becoming a little more "real" for her. I'm going out, I'm leaving the house, I'm being secretive (Tabbys words). And, I'm actually in a far better mood, I feel like my old pre-marriage self! And I thinks it's being felt.
I'm being a man again. Lets put it in perspective abit. I have a drivers license (well, temp one for car/van). On my motorcycle I'm fine, love it. But an actual car? I HATE driving. It scares the crap out of me, I just get nervous. Two days ago, she asked if I'd take my smallest S to the dentist office. It was -20 out, but its only a 6min walk away to the plaza. I said sure, she asked if I wanted to drive (she knows I'm nervouse about driving) and re-assured me that it's so close I wouldnt be on the road for long.
I manned up, and plunged in (I think to her surprise). I was at the dentist for 10 mins.....and then I did something I'd never done. I went out shopping...multiple places, all over the city. I think that shocked the hell out of her. I then came home, dropped off groceries, ect.....and left again, to the school to get my oldest. And through the city again I drove; to the mall to shop for things I had missed.
That night, I went upstairs, watched some tv, her on the other end of the couch, and said nothing. When it was time to go back downstairs, I said 'have a good night, thanks for the use of the van" and that was it.
Next morning (dad who didn't do too much) got up before everyone, made my kids breakfast, and was back in the van, driving my kid to school - again, I think she was shocked.
I know she hates my going out, my dressing up, my happy demeanor, my (now) being more responsible doing things (like actually driving)..it's showing I'm moving on, and I'll be fine without her.
Today, she was gone after dropping off my son at school, for an extra 40 mins. I was choked, I thought she had gone to see a lawyer. So, I called mine, to make an appoint for next week, when she returned. She knew it was him on the phone, but, I have to be prepared for what may come. I asked today if she had spoken to one, thus far, she has not.
Half and hour ago, I was on the couch, playing with my smallest, and her daycare kids (which is WAY out of what I'd normally do), and she began to mention putting the kids in swim programs. Not sure whats going on, but it even FEELS like something's changing...she's leaving her phone accessible more often (not sure if its because she's deleting txts, and doesnt care if I look (I dont anymore), or, if she's just testing me. I've caught her looking my direction a little, here and there as well. Still lost as to what to think, hoping she's being torn up inside, even though she hasn't until recently expressed any concern. Just hoping my GAL doesnt push her OUT the door...being accused of going out to 'be' with someone else was a hard pill to swallow..hearing her tell her mom the same, was even harder!
It WAS fantastic...thought about my wife ONCE. The second I took hold of my assigned partner. And that was it. The rest of the time, I thought of absolutely nothing.
Back tomorrow night, can't wait!
Also noticed a few more things. Today when I was playing with the kids in the living room, she came to the threshold of the kitchen and was watching the interaction. I watched all the kids look up at her, I didn't have to look to know she was there.
There has been a little more eye contact as well. For instance, I was making everyone dinner the other night (the note we actually talked), not only was there eye contact during the whole conversation, there were times the kids interrupted, and she chased them out of the room, or shoo'd them away, AND came back to the room to continue the convo. As if she was truly interested to actively listen and engage. I ended the convo on my own accord. As she walked to the other room, she turned to just look at me...its been a VERY long time since she'd done that.
No longer walking on eggshells either. Feel empowered knowing my GAL DOES bother her!
Of quick note. I asked her at the end of our convo.."do you realize this is the most we've talked since all of this started"..she said she does, she then asked "do you realize how you spend time in the basement has neglected our intimacy?" (As I'm still in the basement if I'm not out, I asked "now?(at present)..she said " for the past 6yrs (it hasn't been though).
Question. Do I begin 'removing myself from the basement more often to spend the time in the same room, or continue the way I have been, and wait for HER to initiate a convo?
Note 2: When we're in the same room and I'm playing with the kids, not always, but I'm noticing, that every once in a while, I'll see her smile-not a huge white teeth bared chompers smile, but a smile all the same.
I don't know the full situation as to why you were in the basement in the first place but if it were me I would be in my bed. W can go somewhere else if it were a problem.
And maybe that was part of the problem you had with her. Not being together like that was a problem with me and my W. I had a back pain and could not be in bed for many months. It gave her the space and lack of emotional maintenance for her EA to begin.
I was in the basement all the time, as that's where all my stuff, and the computer is. It hurt her feelings, and in so, she felt neglected, and unloved. I'm in the basement now, as I have to detach, while I GAL...problem is, I'm unsure if maybe I should be spending time upstairs with her when we have been having, it seems, more communication, or at least, a better 'feel' between the two of us. I know what gave her much of that 'loss of intimacy' feel..I just don't know if I'm supposed to 180 that previous behavior now, or if it would be pushing her boundaries, as, I don't know what they are.
Incidently, I had a call from the landlord today, about rent. Told him Tabby was already there this a.m. to pay it. He said he checked his receipts, and she wasn't there. I wasn't angry, usually I would've assumed she just lied to me again...instead, I sent a text to her letting her know we'd been in contact, and I wanted to know if she was being honest with me. She called, very angry with me.she said she felt I went behind her back, checking up on her. After the call, first thing I did was call the guy back...and SURPRISE, he made a mistake. There goes ANYTHING that had been deposited in her love bank this week. Unbelievable!
If she were not there what would you do different? Move the computer upstairs somewhere? Put it where YOU want it. Say it's so you can be around the kids more if you have to.
Another update.
No idea where things stand...
For the past few days, much has happened. I came home this weekend, and asked Tabby for all her financial information, for a lawyer appointment I had on the Monday. She got upset, told me she thought I was full of [censored] about having an appointment. She stormed upstairs, got on the bed, and cried for quite awhile. She came down, face all puffy, and admitted everything was her fault.
The next day, after my appointment, I approached her about getting a joint account (my lawyer's idea). The purpose behind which, to facilitate trust between her and I. I have no idea where themoney goes, and she thinks I'm terrible with money. Again, she stormed off upstairs, and cried in bed. I followed her, and we talked as she cried. She told me OM is ignoring her again. That he says he can't forgive her for making him her plan B, and has been trying to make her feel guilty. That night, while I was in bed with her (yup, three days now back in the bed), the phone rang just after midnight. It was him. She ignored it. 10 mins later, it rang again. Him again. I told her to answer it, as I got out of bed, and headed for the door. She asked where I was going, as I left, and when I said I was going downstairs, she asked why...it almost felt like she didn't want me to leave.
The next day, we sat down. She told me he called until 5am, and she didn't sleep much. She told me she called him back and he laid a guilt trip and was in her opinion drinking, and then she told me she was ending it.
She mentioned that tho she was ending it, her EA wasn't a catalyst for our marriage to die...that she has been unhappy for years, at my neglectingvspending time with her and the kids. She mentioned that though she's noticed my changes in committing to daily housework, and the kids, ect., that she, and her mom have to wonder (based on her perception of our past), if I truly want to be in the marriage. (This was brought up in the bed the previous day as well, she said she was 'alone'..and when I told her as her husband 'I' was there, she mentioned I was only there for the kids. And, she said she still thinks that we should be separate, as we're better parents apart, as well as live more 'productive' and fulfilling lives.
I'm completely lost. Its been obvious to me the OM has been ignoring her, and that SOMETHING had happened between them to ruin their EA
Now she's been crying twice in 3 days, and feeling guilt and, I believe, remorse. I'm not certain she's cut it off yet, and if not, I'm sure its coming very soon. I've told her she can expect to feel anger and depression once the decision is made, for the EA will feel like lost love. Thus far, we talk a little more, not much, I've even felt her close to me in bed (though most likely because she's rolled over).
As mentioned in previous posts, she has always been really weak in following thru with her aspirations, but surprise, she's diving wholeheartedly back into an insurance carrier, (a third time), spending her days watching her daycare kids, and reading insurance manuals.
SO, question, is any of this script, as to what happens when an EA fizzles? Should I expect her to 'meltdown' and cry in bed a few more times? (I read somewhere she may enter into depression once it's "truly over" between them. The jumping back to the books and looking feverishly for a job..-a further "escape" from reality?,:and, should I still not believe anything she tells me?
Just find it interesting that since this has all transpired in 4 weeks, every row we get into, MY commitment and actions (GAL) are brought up...doesn't make sense to me for an "I'm finished in our marriage" person, to bring up MY actions and committal, if she truly was on the path, and wants, independance.
Anyone that has been through this and successfully saved their marriage, PLEASE feel free to chime in.
As it stands, we will be getting a joint account, and she has the intention of staying until the end of May/summer.
Thanks all, wee bit of stress and indecisiveness I'm feeling
Is she willing to go full no-contact with her OM (sending him a letter, the content of which is approved by you and you mail it as well) and become fully transparent with you, and work on the marriage for some defined period of time (no less than six months)?
I would ask her, for two reasons:
1) test her sincerity, or are these just "crocodile tears" over her OM dumping her or pulling away from her;
2) it's the ONLY way you should be willing to work on the marriage with her anyway, as -- without it -- infidelity has an EXTREMELY high recidivism rate.
Starsky
So far, all I've gained is this:1. she is pissed, and said she's finished, that its ending. 2. She 'thinks' its best for us to be seaparate, as both her/mother think my GAL, and our past (my independance in a computer room) displays my disinterest in the marriage, 3. my current 180's may/will slide back to old habits that will hurt her again if she were to try 4. She feels we should maybe have never been married as 'I filled her head with romantic overtones she thought she wanted...
Problem is, she questions MY committal, every time. I'm only there 4 the kids, not her. Often she's been telling me my 'actions speak louder than words.
Unfortunately, when I was young, I too 'played' the field, would tell someone anything they'd want to hear to get what I wanted, and then I'd be done. I knew this would happen with her and him...its been about 3 days. I'll be in bed tonight again...eventually, he'll call or text when I'm there. I'm going to bring the NC up as soon as he does. I'll tell her its okay to respond with me there, if she really wants to end it, and will mention a letter.
Didn't say anything about working on the marriage. I said to her, "Look, I can't prove you right or wrong when it comes to what you believe has or hasn't happened in this marriage. You said you wanted to stay until summer and the oldest is out of school. Take that time to realize the changes I'm making for me, not you, are real and permanent, then decide what you plan on doin. She didn't say anything,cjust a bunch of I think we should be apart awhile, I think we'd be better off..., ect.
I'm just wondering if because I'm pretty sure, that she hasn't 'cut' the cord, or begun to experience the " loss", whether she's still in some fog.
For being so bloody determined to end it 4 weeks ago, I'm surprised MY committal is constantly brought up
Think you may be on to something tho. It could be the 'poor me' reaction to her "soulmate" turning out to be a douche, and her husband apparently moving happily (not really, but GAL is bloody effective) on...hence a lot of the questions regarding my commitment (perhaps). All guesswork at this point.
" . . . You said you wanted to stay until summer and the oldest is out of school. . . "
I would only accept that arrangement if she did the NC and full transparency. Otherwise, you're signing on for four more months of LIMBO, CAKE-EATING and the kind of emotional DRAMA just laid out in your posts.
Unfortunately, she doesn't have the money to go. When I returned from the lawyer, I looked her right in the face and told her, she wants to go, then get the @#$% out, as I'm tired of the BS
I'll be laying that on the table though. NC, transparency...for MY piece of mind.
It's as simple as saying "Look, you are welcome to stay here, but if you choose to, here are my boundaries." And then enforcing them.
"Simple," yes, but notice I didn't say "easy." It will require an entirely new set of skills for you, and you'll have to be STRONG and CONSISTENT.
Starsky
I was just shocked I'm back in the bed, and there was no fight. She told me "I never told you you had to go"
SURE, you can cheat while I'm laying hear..OMG
Yeah, well, they say nothing good comes easy. New skills, Jesus, I'm not really good at the old ones...ding, ding, ding, round two.
Did you go through this sort of stuff in your sitch Starsk..the questions over your commitment/loyalty, ect. Once your spouse's A began to crumble? I was expecting her to all of the sudden head into a marriage repair mode
No, not really. By the time her affair was snuffed out (first by my aggressive confrontation, exposure, and strong financial and legal stance and then by her OM going psycho on her) she was ready to return to the marriage and didn't question my commitment.
I think it was a combination of all of the self-improvements I had made, coupled with her very easily seeing just how hard I fought for her. Sure, half of those things PISSED HER OFF at the moment, but she certainly didn't question how committed I was.
Starsky
K. Thought I'd ask. I think she's still in a fog or, at the very least a haze. Think she actually has convinced herself while reinventing the marriage, that her distorted reality is truth.
Of course she has. It's very much SCRIPT.
K. Thought I'd ask. I think she's still in a fog or, at the very least a haze. Think she actually has convinced herself while reinventing the marriage, that her distorted reality is truth.
Hoping that lifts quick and in a hurray after she goes NC (IF she follows thru. Noticed she's back to maiden name on FB
Hoping that lifts quick and in a hurray after she goes NC (IF she follows thru.. . .
It's usually NOT quick. Hard withdrawal can last from 1-3 weeks and total withdrawal can take up to 6 months or more, depending on how long -- and how deeply -- she's been involved with her OM.
How long has she been involved with this guy?
In total, just over 4 weeks...about 37 days max. They were bed buddies 7yrs ago. This is the second EA with him, first was 4yrs ago when she 'had a dream' about him and contacted him via FB.I found out, she begged and pleaded, but I requested, and we separated a year, back then.
This time, same thing, she contacted him, all conversation at first sexual..she mentioned she loved him for past 7yrs, he said he always loved her, she mentioned commitment, he ignored her a few days. Few days later, they chatted, he ignored her again (so twice now in just about week and a half.) Yesterday she said she knows he's all fantasy but 'needs time to sort out her feelings for him'.mentioned he's an idiot, said she's done with him next they talk...we'll see. We're 5000km away from him. He has no intent on coming here, and legally, she can't be with him and take the kids. Shitty situation, but this was all his and her doing. Vthink she realizes that, but is so far deep in a hole is afraid what to do next.
Of course, I understand he'll contact her (again), only to ignore her later (again). And, she'll be hurt (again)...wonder how long this BS goes on till she "gets" it. Or, how long the horrendous and lonley marriage she's determined to believe in her head, brings her back down to reality. I'm sure eventually she'll see thru her own BS..fingers crossed.
If she has indeed been pining for him all these years -- and WITH him for the past month -- you're in for a very long withdrawal period I'm afraid, even IF she goes 100% stone-cold no-contact. And each new contact will reset her withdrawal "clock" to 0:00:00.
Sorry to be so pessimistic, but I'd rather you know what you're up against.
No, you're right absolutely. Thing is, she's happy, then this..knowing they can't, and won't be together (he likes his multiple sexual partners and wants to be free from monogomous, she can't go to him with the kids by relocating, and she wants a monogamous loyal commitment. Hell, its in their past texts..she mentions commitment and 'feelings', and he's ignoring her..cruelly calling days later 'sorry, didn't mean to, was a pocket dial..'...stringing her along to satisfy his ego.
I'm going to see if he calls tonight while I'm in bed. If so, she won't answer..BUT. If and when he does, I'm asking her right there in bed.."are you seriously done with him?" If she says yes, I'll ask her to answer and tell him.."I" will then ask for the phone, verify he heard her say she's done, and then let him know that if he contactsvher/us via phone, email,text, or bloody telekenisis, I'll contact police and press charges for harassment, and hang up. I will then tell her if she contacts him, I'll make certain she leaves the house, money or not, post haste. I'll mention transparency, and be back off to bed. A NC being drawn up and sent in the morning.
Try to make her understand that the NC and transparency is as much for HER as it is for YOU. Its purpose is to give her body and her emotions the separation that they need in order to begin to heal, to "get over him." You can even say "Whether or not you then want to fully commit to ME, is a totally different topic and I understand that will have as much to do with me as it will with you. But you owe it to YOURSELF to completely cut it off with this guy, and maybe even get some individual counseling to figure out just what it is you want out of life. Just know that I can't stay in an open marriage, so I'll understand if you can't agree with this."
Or something similar that's your words.
That's how I began to pitch it yesterday when she said she was done with him..from her perspective, no mention of a 'gain' for me. And, honestly it IS better for her, AND the only way she can really see the reality that has been so badly tainted, with the respect to our marriage. I evenvwmpathized by mentioning how "I" saw 'us' when she did this the first time, and I became part of an EA..how I too believed SHE wasnt for me, and that I distorted, and truly believed, what I 'thought' was real, even tho it wasn't.
The only reason I'm holdin' on, are her questions about my upbeat mood, about how I look fine and am moving on (GAL), and the usual references to my committal, and my "love" for her.
But 7yrs, two kids, 3,6...I'm sure its eating at her...now that's she's crying 'its all my fault, I've hurt so many people"
Certainly, the greener grass doesn't look so green now.
Last few days have been a little better.
I've continued to spend more time (most) out of the basement, and play with my kids SO much more. (My little guy is starting to read, and enjoy it-his teacher told me he was falling behind, an though Tabby tried one night, he didn't respond to well to it). Tabby's being more talkative with me as well...asks if I have plans, and if not, asks if I'd like to go out with her and the boys (shopping, ect.)
She's NC with OM still, instead focusing on career aspirations at the moment.
I've been reading a @#%& load of stuff online as well..Love Bank, deposits, withdrawals, ect., his needs/her needs, and trying to implement what I'm learning. Last night was..different. First time we've gone to bed and honestly, cuddled in probably 6-8 months.
First time in over a month I truly slept. Though, I get tempted to jump right in head first, I realize I must be CAUTIOUSLY optimistic. I think she reached out in her own way the other day. She went grocery shopping, and was gone 3hrs. She texted me an hr and a half after she left, stuck in a lineup at a car wash (verified) to let me know where she was and she'd be longer than anticipated. Was shocked, she hasn't done that since we dated (it felt good). Said she was going to Walmart (where I work as loss prevention) when wash was done. Sure enough, (verified) when I saw the video next day.
Also found the paperwork from a lawyer at Legal Aid dated 3 Feb. Said "fill out and return by ..." Was never filled out or returned. Not sure what to expect, but will continue to loosely "trust" but verify. Just odd..she has been more responsive when I attempt (slowly and honestly) to address her emotional needs as well. She HATED me 3 weeks ago.
I'm so confused. I don't know if we're 'piecing', on the way to piecing, or what the hells going on.
Has she come to you and asked "what would it take to make this marriage work?"
Has she gone NC and have you asked for transparency?
You need these things before you can piece your marriage back together.
Has she come to you and asked "what would it take to make this marriage work?"
Has she gone NC and have you asked for transparency?
You need these things before you can piece your marriage back together.
x 2.
Thanks guys, but no, she hasn't done that. I asked for transparency, all she does is leave her phone out, email hasn't been provided. And between last night and this a.m., it got much worse (or a little better) depending on the perspective I take when I step back from the switch.
As mentioned, originally she wanted the entire FAM to move back to BC. But live separate lives, so she could be 'comfortable' back "home" with her parents. I believe, its because OM lives there. I was in the military for 13yrs there, and its well known to all, I will not go back to BC. While there hasn't been contact with OM, and I was under the impression (her acceptance of affection, and more communication between us in the past few days) that things were getting a little, I (we) suffered a blow over the past 12hrs.
Last night I returned from dancing, one of my GAL activities. She stated that she wanted to talk with me, so, we sat on the couch and I listened. She told me, that her mom sent information to her that Walmart Loss Prevention job opened in BC (what I do as work in Ontario currently), and that I could transfer to the BC store, and we could all move back home, and I would just need to find a place to live, and she and the kids could stay indefinitely with her mom. My response:absolutely not. Well, you can imagine how well it went from there. Total bloody chaos. She was told SHE can go, I'll not try to stop her, but, the kids will not go. She was reminded that the switch, and all of her issues were hers to deal with, as her, and the OM caused the issues we're facing. I also mentioned that the input her mother is giving her is detrimental to our situation, that she's 35yrs old, has to put her BGP on, and suck it up. Suffice to say, it wasn't a fantastic chat, and she moved herself into the kids room for the note.
This a.m., I left a note upstairs requesting her lawyer information, so as I can have mine send correspondance regarding finances to him (my wife receives approx. 900.00 a month from the gov't as "baby bonus"). The night before, she said she wasn't leaving the house, as I have no intent, she was told that I should get half of that money to support the kids as well, as, I have legal obligations.
I found the paper ripped up in the trash, so, I asked her for the info and she gave me an ear full. I again told her if she wants to go, fantastic, get a separate agreement, or file the D paperwork. She said " we can live forever separated, I don't have the money for a 4000.00 retainer." I told her that wasn't my problem. I told her that I have zero issues with her wanting separation as I'm okay with myself and my new found freedom and life I've reconnected with, but she'd have to leave. She said no, and I can't make her get out. She then began to melt down.
She sat on the couch crying, telling me everything's her fault, and that yes she made mistakes, but OM and their texting during the month had nothing to do with her wanting to be free from the marriage. She mentioned the arguments, and the stress she feels when I tell her to get out. Said she feels all alone and unsupported by me with regards to her trying to find a career, ect..
I brought up the fact that I've been accused of cheating, not loving her for"a long time" never being emotionally available to her..and asked her "why bring any of this up? You've said 'your done, only to beat me with a stick when I'm out with myself or others enjoying myself?' She couldn't answer. I also asked y she's been accepting of my affection (as I truly do believe I was depositing " love units") I was told she's been accepting, because she wants things to be amiable in the house for the sake of the kids (makes zero sense to me). At the end of the conversation this a.m., she was told a few things. 1. I'm not giving up on this marriage, 2. Not to accept any affection from me "just because", but ONLY if she truly wants to be close, 3. Not to lie to me, be radically honest.
She mentioned before I left for work that she was willing to continue dialogue, however she didn't want me expressing anger when she says things (I assume, don't love u, want out of M,ect.)I may not want to hear. I agreed, and told her that as long as we're in the same house, I will continue to fight for my M, and I didn't want her expressing anger at my efforts, to which she agreed.
There's more regarding her feelings inside her I haven't put in, and, a few more things she said which I believe may cemetery ntvmy belief she may not REALLy want out..but is instead, very deeply troubled.
Couple of facts:
1. She doesn't have a lawyer, only talked to one.
2. She's stated we could do our own set agreement and sign it, nagating a lawyer, and could live "separated" the rest of our lives instead of divorcing. ( I don't think so!)
3. She intended to stay in the house until June, now wants to stay indefinitely (as I understand).
4. She is consistently mentioning things about "me" ie: she doesn't believe the changes I'm making are real, she doesn't feel supported in her career aspirations by me, she thinks I only"there" for the kids, not her. That I haven't "wanted her in a long time. Even past outings how it felt like I never wanted to be there (wherever we were) with her.
Dunno, but to me it seems not so much as she's " done", but completely torn over her actions with respect to the relationship she's devastated, and with the emotional baggage filling her head regarding how she perceived our marriage (albeit "reinvented no doubt during her brief EA).
I know when I'm "done" with something. I'm done. I don't care about what someone is doing, where their going or with who, because its unimportant. And even though she said again today she wants out, I maintain a degree of belief, that perhaps this isn't so clearly the case.
Of course, maybe, she is done, and just doesn't have the funds to go.
Doesn't take that long to save 1st and last months rent to move on.
Hmm. Read a past by MRbond to someone else, makes me feel a bit better. Much like my switch, the original writer wrote: (paraphrasing here)
."..a wife will not leave a coasting marriage if they don't have the financial means to support themselves."
To which MRbond responded.
"Wrong. If they want to leave, they leave."
Stepping back a little, she DOES make money with home daycare. And she does receive 900.00 as govt. "Baby bonus". So really she COULD move well before my son is out of school in June.
..maybe there is hope. Either way, going out tonight once kids are in bed to give my brain a rest methinks
Mac, you were doing really well until you got to this:
At the end of the conversation this a.m., she was told a few things. 1. I'm not giving up on this marriage, 2. Not to accept any affection from me "just because", but ONLY if she truly wants to be close, 3. Not to lie to me, be radically honest.
1. You should have set "I'm letting you go";
2. You should have said that you cannot give your affection to someone who is having an affair; and
3. You shouldn't be expecting someone in an affair to be honest with you. CHEATERS LIE -- PERIOD.
Your wife sure knows how to pull all your strings! You're getting much better at standing up to her, but as long as she knows the #1 above thing -- "I still want this marriage" -- she has no credible fear of losing you, and therefore no incentive to take the difficult steps necessary for her to end her affair.
STarsky
Dunno, but to me it seems not so much as she's " done", but completely torn over her actions with respect to the relationship she's devastated, and with the emotional baggage filling her head regarding how she perceived our marriage (albeit "reinvented no doubt during her brief EA).
MINDREADING. It could simply mean that she's trying desperately to hang on to her fantasy -- being with OM, and you playing dutiful husband/"Plan B" in case it doesn't work out with him. Your recent stronger stances have thrown off her power equilibrium, and I see her spinning and trying to get it back.
My take.
Starsky
Hmm. Read a past by MRbond to someone else, makes me feel a bit better. Much like my switch, the original writer wrote: (paraphrasing here)
."..a wife will not leave a coasting marriage if they don't have the financial means to support themselves."
To which MRbond responded.
"Wrong. If they want to leave, they leave."
I sorta disagree with Bond here. It HAS been my experience and observation that a wayward woman, especially, will not leave the financial stability of the marriage unless she is either:
a) set up sufficiently financially, through either her own financial independence or support from her OM; or
b) SO fed up with the home atmosphere and relationship with her husband that it trumps the lack of "a".
It's CLEAR that the particular version of the fantasy that your wife had all planned out in her head did NOT involve her even beginning to put on her BGPs. So it stands to reason now that you've begun to remove yourself as her fall-back option and stand up to her, that she is spinning about her lack of potential financial security.
Starsky
Man, appreciate it, been dying to see you on as of late. In all honesty, I did slow down my leaving the house and going out. Last time I was out was (other than dancing last night (Thurs), Friday night. So 'detachment" was put aside to see if I could implement "love bank" ideas. I realize she's a "needs affection" and "quality time" person, so I thought I'd attempt affection as I spent time with her, and, though it wasn't reciprocated, it wasn't denied either..and it truly appeared to make a dif.
Even today as she sobbed, I caressed her arm, and back as I told her listened and validated her thoughts (yup yet right, yet fault- wanted to say that, but didn't). Then to get hit with the, "I let you tochvme for the sake of the kids BS'.
As I mentioned the purpose of my affections towards her,she was told it wasn't a game, or a ploy, or an attempt by me to get her in the sack, even a trick, she actually visually looked me in the eyes, and I believe understood I was being honest to her. (Any affection I used to give was predominately so I could get her in the mood). I explained it was non-sexual affection based on a want to be close, not a want to satisfy an urge.
She had appeared " normal" since her last meltdown almost 2 weeks ago. I remember believing she was just ice cold and repressed all the shame guilt and anger. Didn't know how she could do that. After this a.m., I know she hasn't, that stoic, strong exterior was a facade (again). And sadly, part of me felt good to see her so troubled, and make some of the statements regarding my past actions, and her present thoughts. It means that at least the gerbil isn't dead, and she's making comparisons between the 'now' me, and the 'old me'.
Now the issue from my perspective is this. If her OM's gone, her prospects to go home are gone, and I continue (again) to detach and GAL, how can I be sure of myself...let me put it another way. I want to detach, to take myself out of the picture so her resentment, anger, shame,and any indecisiveness isn't put on me. However, I want to continue to meet her emotional need for affection and quality time at the same time to deposit units in her bank. Is that possible.
Zero issues meeting all other emotional needs (other than sexual connection of course), such as family, domestic, and when she asks, recreational needs. Being a great dad, no problem.
Tough, I focus on me, absolutely. But I'm trying to find a means to provide her with the "oh, these changes ARE real".. As she mentioned she noticed I changed (the same way I am now ) 4 yes ago when we got back together after 1yr step. Its y she said she gave our R a shot again, but ended up disappointed when they didn't stick.
Patience is the answer I would think. Whole switch only 6weeks old tomorrow. Ya, has to be patience.
Oh, your right. Crystal clear this wasn't planned. The more she argues when we talk, and complains when I show her the reality, only cements the fact that she never planned on any of this happening.
I can't do it for her, but if I could 'steer' her a bit I would. Its been 2 weeks NC OM, I should still expect he's still amongst her thoughts, and she's still lost in the fog, no matter how clear she thinks the atmosphere is.
Still wants out of the marriage and contact with OM had nothing to do with it..- it's tough, but I'm still holding on to that olive branch. Don't believe anything she says. The words she says though, just like sticks and stones!
I'm trying buddy. When she went to waterworks this morning, I died a little. I'll do better. (And still get my marriage back 8) )
Oh, the affair. They haven't chatted two weeks now. She doesn't provide email, but I check using a kelogger her FB and Outlook, NC as of yet. I expect it will eventually happen (history repeats right?) Which is y I stay in the marital bed,(to make it harder). When contact happens, I'll know..and, of course, I also understand it'll stagnate again shortly after, hurting her again (hence I'll continue detach/GAL so as she has less or no string to pull during next relapse. You're right, she needs the fear of goodbye.
Just got paid. Feels like a good week to say, goodbye whoever Tabby has become, and hello new, fun, fascinating life!
There are so many ways cheaters can and will communicate. I would be cautious my friend.
Mac,
Let me ask you something. At any point through all of this, do you think your wife has honestly felt she might be losing you? Might have gone too far? Does your intel reveal any such doubts?
I've never yet seen one of these sitches turn around unless and until the wayward spouse credibly feels like they may be losing their betrayed spouse.
Starsky
Mac, I'm so sorry to hijack.
Starsky, if you get chance to visit my thread, I'd really welcome your sage advice....
A few times.... first time was three days after I posted that I was going to a movie alone. It was the day she cried in bed, and told me how she feels I'm out with someone else, that I must be...I was in new clothes, new cologne, shaved before I left....she balled as she told me I was "dressed to the 9's " and I MUST be out with someone else.
The second time, was the day I came back from seeing a lawyer and she pretended she didn't know I actually went. When I told her that yes, that is where I was, he suggested this, this and that. She was up the stairs in 20seconds, back on the bed, bawling. Telling me everything was her fault, she's hurt so many people, ect.
And, I somewhat felt it today when she was again on the couch crying.
Unfortunately, I cannot allow myself to believe any of it anymore, for I have learned that she can (though for a short time) be an actress, and use my feelings to her advantage - pulling my on a string.
And, shitty as it is, and as scared as I am, I have to let go of the one I love in order to have chance to get her back, and to see just what really happened, and the why behind it. I love my wife, more than I've ever loved any one thing in the world, so I have to let her go. Only by becoming the man I was, the man I need to be, can I truly become her husband. Until them, I'm just a memory she'd rather not relive.
Absolutely.
What it is they say? "trust but verify?".
Think for me right now, I'll just try to verify what I can,
my trust is gone. The only consistency I see when she talks, is that she'll consistently lie...and I don't need that.
Well, another argument, this time, completely her.
Bought my kids pizza last night. I was heading up to the kitchen and found a slice on the carpet on the basement floor. So, pick it up, and head upstairs to see which one of them just left it there...once in the kitchen, I heard my kids and tabby upstairs, so, pizza in hand, I head up the steps. Tabby comes out into the upstairs hall way, on the phone, looks at me and says "eavesdropping? I'm allowed to vent on the phone to my mom!" In a pissy tone. Held up the pizza, explained I was trying to find out who left it on the floor, that was all.
Headed back to the basement. Tabby comes down to do laundry, still on the phone, so, I ask her to please go upstairs to vent, as I did not wish to be accused of eavesdropping in another section of the house.
After her call, she came to the basement and (loosely) apologized. As she headed back upstairs, I followed. I asked her about the joint bank account idea my lawyer thought about to give us both piece of mind regarding where the money being made is going. She said she's not doing it, as it doesn't make sense to her (I really don't see how it couldn't). She sat on the couch. I mentioned her wanting to leave the marriage. I told her I'll give her 5000.00 to find herself a place, pay first and last months rent, plus to months, giving her essentially 3 months rent free in her own place.
She has said "we're better apart as both her and I are more productive when apart and better parents" in the past. So, I told her that if she took this 3 months rent paid opportunity, she should have NO problem getting a job, as she's so much more productive and happier alone. I told her with the shared custody, the opportunity for her to flourish, and enrich her life when she does not have the kids should be so very easy -she'll be alone and as she's so driven now, and so determined, and with horrible me out of the pic, she should be at her peak in terms of self fulfillment.
Currently doing child daycare out of our home, she said again, no. That she makes her money here at the house. I mentioned that all parents bring their kids in vehicles, 5 or 10 more minutes to ferry their kids to my wife's new place shouldn't be an issue at all. Again met with a defiant no.
And then (of course) it happens. The words come out of her mouth. "I'm confused. You say you want to work on/save the marriage, but you're trying to get me out".. Aaaaand the tears.
So, I calmly told her. " You have SO much going on in your head. You have no idea what to think or do (she agreed). I have to give you that time. I'm letting you go, I have to be me, the me I was before we met, and I have to do it for me, I need to be happy. I'm going to live my life. (She knows it means I'll be going out, meeting people again - and that I've done it before and was quite happy, and I know, it drove her nuts, and that was DURING the time she and OM were chatting everyday..if they truly aren't now, its probably going to make things a little harder on her).
She said "..we can still talk". I stood up, said " this will be the last time I do this" and gave her a kiss on the forehead and went to bed.
Interesting though, the fight to stay in the home when the reality is she could be in her own place rent free for months, and easily have her daycare kids (her money) come to a new address.
Second thing I found interesting..the "you say you want to work on/save the marriage but.." Comment I'm getting so used to hearing.
Of course, she brought up me moving out. I told her it wasn't an option, as legally, it can be seen as 'abandoning' your children. She mentioned at this point she had gone to a lawyer and I could call our babysitter to confirm that, and the lawyer she went to said that wasn't the case.
I told her that the thousands of lawyers online, from our province with their own websites must all be wrong. Including mine. She mentioned my lawyer is only looking out for my own interests. I told her she was wrong. I told her exactly what my lawyer told me. "You two are too young for this, you two have a chance, the marriage is young, and you need to focus on it, work on it, before doing this to each other" (exactly what he said)
Just read all the posts from Vet DB'ers. Realized I've been making some mistakes. Have to set a few goals to implement starting today.
I've been telling her she has to leave the house, effectively telling her I don't want her in my life..and yet I've been telling her I want to work on the marriage - my words are confusing her, placing more stress on an already stressed out woman.
Goal#1. Not to mention lawyers, moving, or participating in any argumentative behavior.
She's lost some of her daycare kids this week, dramatically reducing her pay, therefore she's very concerned about her finances, thus
Goal#2. I will not mention amalgamating funds, nor question where and how she spends money (including Gov't baby bonus), and will take an active role in assisting her with some of her expenses (she owns the vehicle and I drive it once in awhile, so I'll spend money to fill the tank when I notice its low, and make certain routine maintenance is done).
I didn't spend enough time with the kids pre BDay, though I am spending time more so than before, she doesn't always see it as we play games in the basement.
Goal#3. I will actively pursue outside activities with the kids; swimming, the park, ect.
Txt'd me today to ask when I'd be home from work so she would know how much money she should leave for me to pay the babysitter (she started volunteering awhile back, before the switch happened, every saturday. Now only twice a month (think it was dropped by half due to the stress after BDay). I didn't tell her what time I was done, but mentioned I had already considered the cost, and will pay the sitter myself. *hopefully implying that I understand her financial stress and have no problem stepping in to help.
She also texted back that she will be a little late tonight as she's going grocery shopping after volunteering. With the switch and arguing the way its been, she 'may' have expected me to question that (and I do get paro about it depending on occasion). Instead, I told her it wasn't a problem, thanked her for letting me know, and let her know that I appreciated it.
Wow, second time she's informed me that she'll be later than expected. Maybe she DOES understand that my faith in her is gone, and, even after the recent fighting, is taking her own steps.
Either way, I actually smiled when she sent it.
A few times.... first time was three days after I posted that I was going to a movie alone. It was the day she cried in bed, and told me how she feels I'm out with someone else, that I must be...I was in new clothes, new cologne, shaved before I left....she balled as she told me I was "dressed to the 9's " and I MUST be out with someone else.
The second time, was the day I came back from seeing a lawyer and she pretended she didn't know I actually went. When I told her that yes, that is where I was, he suggested this, this and that. She was up the stairs in 20seconds, back on the bed, bawling. Telling me everything was her fault, she's hurt so many people, ect.
And, I somewhat felt it today when she was again on the couch crying.
Unfortunately, I cannot allow myself to believe any of it anymore, for I have learned that she can (though for a short time) be an actress, and use my feelings to her advantage - pulling my on a string.
And, shitty as it is, and as scared as I am, I have to let go of the one I love in order to have chance to get her back, and to see just what really happened, and the why behind it. I love my wife, more than I've ever loved any one thing in the world, so I have to let her go. Only by becoming the man I was, the man I need to be, can I truly become her husband. Until them, I'm just a memory she'd rather not relive.
So, in each one of those times, how long did you allow her to CONTINUE to feel like she may lose you, before you rescued her??
Do you see a pattern here Mac?
Starsky
In all honesty, I didn't allow any time. I rescued her that second, the second the tears flowed. I was weak. I said it to my mother, WTF did I do?. I coddled her and told her everything will eventually cam be alright.
What I should've done, if anything at all, should've been: "I'm sorry you're upset in dealing with the decisions you have made. You're a smart woman, I'm sure you'll figure it out." ..and left the room. But I coddled.
Today (after last nights fiasco) I told her that I will no longer tell her she has to go. No tears, nothing, but I admitted I was wrong to "confuse" her with my words. "Stay, and work, or go"
I left it at that. So, no more BS, no more "if only", no more "I love you, and i think...." nothing. I'll walk the walk that I've talked.
I WANT to be there when she opens up, but, if she does, I cannot accept much of what she says. Even today, when I told her I appologized for giving her mixed signals (I want to work on the marriage/get out), she didn't say anything stupid. In fact, she said, "regardless of whatever happens, we can't be enemies".
I took solice in the "regardless of what happens..." part...only because she could've said "when we're separated/done......" but she didn't.
[censored] it's tough, but I'll keep plodding along.
If she decides, perhaps it's better to stay, I'm sure I'll see it.
Yup, the pattern? She's hurting, I run to fix it. Realize I should just let her hurt! Why not, I do!
The pattern. See what you're saying. "TRYING" to be the white night. Dumb. Have to be the one who walks, and is happy doing so.
(Think that's what you mean)