Hi folks, I'm new to the site, haven't even had the chance to post my story (at work, but will as soon as I get home as I really have a lot of questions and need your help). The bomb was dropped on me 8 days ago. My lead-up to the question...I understand a little about the processes from reading posts here, and, I've been attempting to detatch and improve me for me. I signed up for Ballroom dancing (which she likes, and we only tried once years ago) to have fun and enjoy myself, and I've been going out for walks and coffee with others, joined a gym again, ect. Problem is this...from what I understand "if something doesn't benefit the situation, don't do it". My wife is / has been giving me the third degree. She's asking where I am, who I was with, and, if she doesn't believe my answers, leaves the short question period briefly only to return again to ask a second time about where I REALLY am. She's been caught for a second time in an EA with a guy 5000km away, and now wants out for good (of course has nothing to do with him). First off, her questioning. Any hypothesis. My judgment is so clouded I can't think straight, I mean really, she wants out, than what gives right? And secondly. My going out to have fun and improve myself makes her angry, so, if its not " helping the situation" would this new trend for me (other than going to the gym regularly a few yes back) be causing more of a problem? I dont want her thinking IM having an affair.
Mac,
I am no expert but let me say that your W asking where you have been, who you are with, etc. is a good sign. She wants you to pine away for her and wallow in your own pity. But you are not doing that. You are GALing. Congratulations to you. That is awesome.
DBing is very counter productive to what you would think would work. She is the one that asked for the D. She is the one that is looking to leave. Getting her wondering about you is a good thing.
You're making the common mistake of "defining what 'works'" as "what makes her act NICE towards me." 'Nice' isn't necessarily what you're going for at this stage.
Your wife is noticing that you're being mysterious, and she's perhaps questioning her own actions and thinking "Oh cr*p, did I go too far? Did I lose ol' Mac? Why I was just trying to SCARE him, and keep him as my Plan B right now!"
A wayward will also very often project their own moral shortcomings onto their betrayed spouse, and accuse them of doing the very thing that THEY are doing. Very much SCRIPT.
Have you read DB or DR yet? Sandi's 37 Rules?
Welcome.
Starsky
Wow, appreciate the quick response. I thought her reaction projected exactly what you've said. Personally, it hasn't been going on long..we were out for dinner theater, looking for a new house, ext. only 3 1/2 weeks ago. I got up one morning and she wasn't 'herself' she was off. Found out within 4 days why. Honestly believe she'd be acting business as usual if she hadn't been caught, just to ride out the EA and see where it would go, but, she was caught, and is stuck. My problem is how I'm suppose to answer her questions. For instance, I haven't been to the movies for 3yrs. I work this Friday until 830pm right next to the theater. Movie starts at 10pm until Midnight...it'll take me 40 mins to go home, 40 mins to come back to the theater if I went home after work first. So, to me it just makes sense to hang out at work (Loss Prevention in a Walmart) do some clothes shopping for my new dance classes, and go to the show. Problem is, what will happen if I stay...see, she already questioned my coffee last night. Seeing a movie after my shift will mean I'm not home until 4.5hrs after my normal return home. She's either going to be awake, waiting in the kitchen to confront me the second I walk in the door, or, (and I can see this happening) she'll be laying in her bed 'stewing' in the dark until she hears me come in and come storming into the basement to start the fight, either way she's going to be pissed. I have no problem telling her where I was, but have no idea how to answer the 'why',where, or with who. I know she won't think I'd actually go by myself, as I've never gone to a movie alone before, so I'm nervous about the responses I offer.
I have read the rules and trying to follow to the letter. I haven't found the books at the library (can't afford to buy them) but continue to look. I believe it is script for her. She got caught 3yrs ago, and begged, pleaded, ect. This time tho, she's in my face telling me the 'no matter what you do,say,try we're done. Alas, hoping it really is a question of not believing everything I hear and only half of what I see. Of course, she hasn't mentioned a lawyer yet, she wants to keep co-habitating at least until June when my oldest is finished school (so far as I still understand), so I do have a lot of time to turn things around. The only positive is that this guy is so far away.
You say "Really? You seriously think I owe you those answers at this point?? Wow. "
That's it.
Wow. That's blunt. I like it. Something she really wouldn't expect either...and nice and calm. That just has a powerful air to it.
"I haven't found the books at the library (can't afford to buy them) but continue to look."
The books are under $4 on ebay. Buy them. If you can't afford $4, how are you going to afford a divorce? You have to do the work rather than having us spoon feed you answers that you don't understand.
Were you having marital issues prior to the first time she cheated? How about now? We need a rundown of your marital history to see what's really going on.
Just tell her you have been getting a life. (GAL)
If that leads to more drilling from her, you might say (in a calm tone of voice) something like, "Considering the situation, I don't see why it matters". And then move on and get busy with something and don't answer any more questions.
If she wants out, then yes, she shouldn't have the right..but wayward wives believe in a double standard.
Books ordered. I'll do a full story writeup so you can all put your 2cents in. Should be up next couple hours once she's sleeping. (She's snooped' through my FB/Hotmail and internet browser history and I want to put it up when she can't catch me doing so). Want her to know nothing of DB. Thanks all.
I made the biggest mistake I could have made last night. I'll fill you all in...here is my (our) story.
My wife Tabby and I have been married 6yrs. We have 2 small sons, S3 and S6. Tabby and I began dating, and had had a small hiccup during the first few months. She would spend alot of time on the phone texting the man who introduced us. I knew who he was, as he had introduced us. He was a cheat, constantly sleeping around with the people he worked with (in a bar). I mentioned my concern, and she stopped the communication. The first year of our marriage was awesome, yet a little difficult. I was in the military and deployed around SE Asia for most of that first year. We lived together in a small house we rented. Tabby became pregnant with our first son while in that house. We became married shortly after, and moved to a second house. My career was coming to an end (my choice) as I was moving towards law enforcement. Our first son was born, and I took up late night security work. During that second year of marriage, I was under the impression everything was fine between us. There was a little stress, I wasn't making as much money in my new job, and living in British Columbia on the island was very expensive. At one point, I had the sensation that something wasn't right. Before I went to work one evening, I put a keylogger/spyware on my computer. The next morning, I came home. Everyone asleep, I checked the computer to find all her passwords (facebook, ect) and followed a gut feeling. I found emails from Tabby to the man that had introduced us, the one she promised not to contact again. I was devestated. The emails talked about how she wanted him inside her again, and what it would be like if they were together. I left the Facebook page up, shut off the monitor, and waited until she woke up to find it. When she woke up, she was devestated, she was caught. She said she had had a dream, and felt she had to reach out to him. She begged, pleaded for me not to be upset, that we could discuss it, work things out, and move forward. I couldn't, not yet, it was too much. I continued to go to work, emotionally messed up, and began to talk to a fellow guard, a woman, who was understanding and kind. I began to develop feeling for her, we spent time together for a few months. Everything felt new to me again, like I was falling for her. After two months of not knowing what to do, and thinking of my wife with another man, I talked to Tabby and told her I thought it was best if she took my son and stayed with her mom up the island, approx. 3hrs away. She did, she left for 6-8 months. During this time, I continued to work. I still spent time with this woman, and Tabby would come to the house to visit every week or every other week. She'd stay for a few days, we'd talk, we'd make the best love we'd ever made. I started to feel guilty the more time we'd spend together. I thought I was falling for this other woman at work, but when I'd see my wife and we'd make love, I'd realize just how much I was missing her. She became pregnant. I was lost in what and where I would go next. I think the woman from work began to see me change. Began to "see" me missing my wife. She detached and grew distant, I chased and pushed her further and further away. My second son was born, and Tabby decided she was moving back to our city so our visits together could be easier, and got her own place. I began spending more time with her and my sons. I was over at the house on and off, and my visits became more frequent. We grew closer. At the end of March 2013, we packed our belongings, rented a Uhaul, and moved to Ontario, where I was born. I flew in a week before she arrived. She drove with my kids and her mom from BC to Ontario. I had no job prospects, but knew they were more abundant in this province, so there was hope. All four of us lived with my mom from April 2013 December 2013 in her basement. I looked for work, Tabby tried to seek out a new career. It was tough, that 8 months in my mothers basement. December 2014 we moved to where we are now. I had small menial jobs, Tabby fluctuated between Insurance and Real Estate, but ended up working a home daycare. I managed to get a job at the local Walmart working Loss Prevention. I spent alot of time in the basement; were I write from now. Detached already I suppose, as I'm not where I wished I would be at this point in my life. I hadn't spent too much time with her, or my kids. I toiled downstairs practicing online for my police exams, and playing games...anything to take my mind off my situation when it came to our family lifestyle...I had wanted more, and didn't have it. Tabby would come downstairs, and tell me I spent too much time here...I didnt' understand she was reaching out for something, anything from me. I thought she was nagging at me. When once I used to do all the cooking, cleaning, ect. she found she was carrying most of the family load. I tried to change my pattern, spend time, but the day was out of the question. She had 4 daycare kids running around upstairs, plus my youngest son, she she's busy, and quite frankly, the kids don't like me a whole heck of alot. In the evening, I would often wait until our kids were in bed, when I would spent time with her, (if I wasnt working, most shifts are 2pm-11pm) usually on the couch watching a movie, not really talking. We had been excited though, looking for a place, a new home, and recently talking about spending more time together, going out as a couple. We managed to go out 3 weeks ago to a Midieval Times dinner show, and we both had a blast, we talked about travelling to Florida, summer time road trips, visiting restaurants featured on TV....even sex, the last time we had it mid-Jan, was the best we had had in so long. I started feeling like we were connecting again, yet, for 4 days leading up to Dday, she changed, 4 days of "not her" in the house...until Feb 2. Feb 2 I came home at 11pm. Everyone was in bed, so down to the basement I go, as per usual. At approx. 2am I went upstairs to go to bed, to find Tabby on the phone with another man, THE man from back in BC. I asked who it was, she said it was "nobody" I asked again, same response. I asked what was going on, she said it wasn't a good time to talk, I kept bugging, insistant. She got up, we went downstairs, and she told me she wasn't happy, didn't want to be in the relationship anymore, that she hadn't been happy in a long time. I mentioned "Ian" (his name) and she said she still had unresolved feelings for him, said she wanted to know if when they slept together it was #$@&*G, or if it was making love, and that she had to know what he thought. She said long ago, I didn't give her the opportunity to find closure. I asked why she hadn't told me she was unhappy, she first told me that she can't talk to me, and then said, there hadn't been time. I asked what she intended to do. She told me it was her plan to have me quit my job here in Ontario, move all of us back to BC, I would find a new job and separate housing from her and the kids, so I could visit my kids. I told her it was ridiculous, that it took me almost a year to get the stable job I had, and that I would not go to BC so she could "see" what a relationship with him would be like, and of course, she was pissed. She said he had nothing to do with her decision. She said she wanted full custody, that she wanted a divorce...and I mentioned getting a lawyer. I also did what you all say I shouldn't do...I pled my case to stay together, she didn't buy it. She didn't care. She told me a woman should be with her kids as she stormed upstairs to the bedroom. That's it, go call your boyfriend, was the last thing I said to her that night, and back to my basement hole I went. That was 9 days ago. These past 9 days I've tried to focus, tried to improve things. On day 1, Feb. 3, I found Michelle's videos on youtube.com while looking for answers, and I watched, and learned. I learned things I didn't know at all. That the nagging I had heard, the bitching about my time downstairs, were her cries for help, and affection. I learned that my communication with her was just as misunderstood, and how the things I said to her were interpreted very different from what they were really suppose to mean. I found this site and forum, and I read, and I read. For nine days I've tried to do well, tried to cope without begging, which isn't really that difficult, as we hardly talk. I learned abit about the 180, and detaching. I started to do dishes again, and reluctantly go upstairs when I know she's done daycare, just to sit in the same room and see what happens. I spent more time with the kids. And I started to go out. Out of the last 9 days, I've been upstairs on 3 occasions, to watch a movie with her, but once I say goodnight, she's upstairs in bed, and again to the basement I go. Four days ago, I couldn't take all the pressure I'm feeling. I hear her on the phone at 530am, talking to him, laughing, though I had asked her to stop while she's in the house. It's been so frustrating. I decided to try to stop the contact. I exposed the emotional affair she had all over my facebook, to her parents, friends and family that morning. I of course, am the bad guy, and I am hated by all for it. But it was all I could do to save the marriage I didnt know I loved so much. The night I exposed the affair, I came home after work. She was livid, I expected that and accept it. She stormed into the basement. Told me that no matter what I did, said, tried or thought, she was "done". I asked her to spend one hour with me when the kids went to bed, one hour to let me show her things. She calmed down, and agreed. When she returned, I told her I understood why she spoke to this man again. I told her I understood that she was feeling emotionally abandoned, she agreed. I sat her down to watch each of Michelles videos on the net. I explained to her that I now understood her nagging, was really a plea for my time, I showed her that my desire for sex was my way of trying to "connect" with her. She said she understood a little. I told her how I felt, that I loved her, that I missed her. I told her things between us could be better than before, if we took one more shot at this marriage, if we worked not for our kids sake, but for us, that I think she'd be surprised at how far this could go together. She said she'd sleep on it. Before she left to go upstairs, I asked her to please not reach out to the OM until she's had time to think for herself...6hrs later, 5am in the morning, she's on the phone again...so much for hope. Two days ago, I tried to detach again. I went out. I didn't say where I was going, I just left for two hours. When I got home, it took 5mins for her to be down in the basement and she pleasantly asked where I was, so I was honest and told her coffee. She seemed content and left. 10 minutes later she was back, angry, arms crossed glaring at me. "So do you want to tell me where you REALLY were" was her question the second time, my answer remained the same. Yesterday, I put up my first few posts. I came home to write this story last night, but found some things. I found she has been in my facebook, reading my messages..I snooped, and found she signed up for match.com. I "had" to know. I was dying inside. Last night I went up and said something. I was calm, I was trying to be in control. I asked if she had been in my facebook. She said it may have accidentally popped up when she tried to log into her own. I told her that wasn't possible, and, that a female contact(s) had been looked up and msgs read. She admitted she looked. I asked her why, and she said it was just to see if I had written any more stuff about her to publish publicly. (which I dont believe, as all she would've had to do was look at my profile from her own to see any posts I've made). I asked her about the match.com confirmation of acceptance...she stated it was an advertisement. (I dont believe, as it was a "confirmation" of a profile and was found under her "ebay orders" folder.) I talked to her for approx. 1hr last night after this. She told me she's not interested in dating anyone, she said she wasn't planning to move out of the house, that she wasn't going anywhere for a very long time. (We had new windows put in yesterday, she even mentioned that we should ask the landlord for new front ones, so we can open them in the summer) I told her again how I felt, how I know she needs emotional and physical affection, how she needs to talk and be heard, and how it IS truly possible that what's happening between us can actually be better than anything it ever was. I told her I want to be close to her, that I miss being in the same bed, cuddling, ect. I asked her what I'm to do..I have no intent on leaving, nor does she, that living the way we are is a perfect chance to give it one more shot. She said she didn't think there was anything I could do, she said she didn't think she could feel anything happen again to change her outlook. I told her "I" knew it could work, if I was only afforded a crack in the wall she had up..that I couldn't do anything by myself, that I needed her help. But I needed to know where I stood if I were to attempt to show affection. I told her I yearn to be back in the same bed, to be close, that maybe her hardened heart over time would soften..as mine did when I was spending alot of time with the security woman years ago, and would see my wife. I compared it. (Basically, I was in an EA, allowed myself to open up to my wife during our visits, and got caught up in being in love with my wife again). She told me it would be wierd between us if I made advances, and she stopped it. I was hurt, but didnt say it. She went to bed, phone blinking in her pocket with a msg from him...and again, Im back in the basement. Alone.
Thats my story. I @!#$%% up last night. Bad. But, I learned a few things to.
1.) My going out the other day, really bothered her, even though she said she didn't "care"
2.) She has no plan to leave; at least, not for quite some time.
3.) I can now start the process. FOR REAL. She is fully aware
of how I feel. There's no need to say it again.
4.) There's some sort of "need to know" on her part. She's
snooped my email, facebook, and internet history.
5.) Separation/Divorce was not mentioned. Perhaps because
its because the EA (I'm sure it continues) isn't as great
or is fizzling out, or realization is kicking in, or though
its not expressed, she hasn't given "us" up yet, but can't
fathom what to do.
I dont know guys and girls. All I do know, is that my being in this state, unsure what I'm suppose to do. I understand GAL. I've signed up for Dance, I go out for coffee, joined a gym. Its the home time I'm having difficulty with. I'm trying to 180...do things around the house I hadn't done in forever...but when it comes to the overall "feel" here, I'm uncertain what to do. I spend most of my time (when I'm not out or at work) in the basement...a MAJOR issue for her (I now see). But I dont know how or what I'm suppose to do to change that pattern without it looking like I'm "trying to hard".
That all I can write for now. After last night, I'm honestly emotionally spent. See. Even now, Im downstairs doing this, and she's upstairs with all her daycare kids watching tv on the couch. Im such a wreck, I'm trying to figure out what to do when I get home tonight after 11. I know she'll be up there alone, watching tv...but do I man up, sit on the couch and try to make up for that time saying nothing, just "being".
Lost.
I made the biggest mistake I could have made last night. I'll fill you all in...here is my (our) story.
My wife Tabby and I have been married 6yrs. We have 2 small sons, S3 and S6. Tabby and I began dating, and had had a small hiccup during the first few months. She would spend alot of time on the phone texting the man who introduced us. I knew who he was, as he had introduced us. He was a cheat, constantly sleeping around with the people he worked with (in a bar). I mentioned my concern, and she stopped the communication. The first year of our marriage was awesome, yet a little difficult. I was in the military and deployed around SE Asia for most of that first year. We lived together in a small house we rented. Tabby became pregnant with our first son while in that house. We became married shortly after, and moved to a second house. My career was coming to an end (my choice) as I was moving towards law enforcement. Our first son was born, and I took up late night security work. During that second year of marriage, I was under the impression everything was fine between us. There was a little stress, I wasn't making as much money in my new job, and living in British Columbia on the island was very expensive. At one point, I had the sensation that something wasn't right. Before I went to work one evening, I put a keylogger/spyware on my computer. The next morning, I came home. Everyone asleep, I checked the computer to find all her passwords (facebook, ect) and followed a gut feeling. I found emails from Tabby to the man that had introduced us, the one she promised not to contact again. I was devestated. The emails talked about how she wanted him inside her again, and what it would be like if they were together. I left the Facebook page up, shut off the monitor, and waited until she woke up to find it. When she woke up, she was devestated, she was caught. She said she had had a dream, and felt she had to reach out to him. She begged, pleaded for me not to be upset, that we could discuss it, work things out, and move forward. I couldn't, not yet, it was too much. I continued to go to work, emotionally messed up, and began to talk to a fellow guard, a woman, who was understanding and kind. I began to develop feeling for her, we spent time together for a few months. Everything felt new to me again, like I was falling for her. After two months of not knowing what to do, and thinking of my wife with another man, I talked to Tabby and told her I thought it was best if she took my son and stayed with her mom up the island, approx. 3hrs away. She did, she left for 6-8 months. During this time, I continued to work. I still spent time with this woman, and Tabby would come to the house to visit every week or every other week. She'd stay for a few days, we'd talk, we'd make the best love we'd ever made. I started to feel guilty the more time we'd spend together. I thought I was falling for this other woman at work, but when I'd see my wife and we'd make love, I'd realize just how much I was missing her. She became pregnant. I was lost in what and where I would go next. I think the woman from work began to see me change. Began to "see" me missing my wife. She detached and grew distant, I chased and pushed her further and further away. My second son was born, and Tabby decided she was moving back to our city so our visits together could be easier, and got her own place. I began spending more time with her and my sons. I was over at the house on and off, and my visits became more frequent. We grew closer. At the end of March 2013, we packed our belongings, rented a Uhaul, and moved to Ontario, where I was born. I flew in a week before she arrived. She drove with my kids and her mom from BC to Ontario. I had no job prospects, but knew they were more abundant in this province, so there was hope. All four of us lived with my mom from April 2013 December 2013 in her basement. I looked for work, Tabby tried to seek out a new career. It was tough, that 8 months in my mothers basement. December 2014 we moved to where we are now. I had small menial jobs, Tabby fluctuated between Insurance and Real Estate, but ended up working a home daycare. I managed to get a job at the local Walmart working Loss Prevention. I spent alot of time in the basement; were I write from now. Detached already I suppose, as I'm not where I wished I would be at this point in my life. I hadn't spent too much time with her, or my kids. I toiled downstairs practicing online for my police exams, and playing games...anything to take my mind off my situation when it came to our family lifestyle...I had wanted more, and didn't have it. Tabby would come downstairs, and tell me I spent too much time here...I didnt' understand she was reaching out for something, anything from me. I thought she was nagging at me. When once I used to do all the cooking, cleaning, ect. she found she was carrying most of the family load. I tried to change my pattern, spend time, but the day was out of the question. She had 4 daycare kids running around upstairs, plus my youngest son, she she's busy, and quite frankly, the kids don't like me a whole heck of alot. In the evening, I would often wait until our kids were in bed, when I would spent time with her, (if I wasnt working, most shifts are 2pm-11pm) usually on the couch watching a movie, not really talking. We had been excited though, looking for a place, a new home, and recently talking about spending more time together, going out as a couple. We managed to go out 3 weeks ago to a Midieval Times dinner show, and we both had a blast, we talked about travelling to Florida, summer time road trips, visiting restaurants featured on TV....even sex, the last time we had it mid-Jan, was the best we had had in so long. I started feeling like we were connecting again, yet, for 4 days leading up to Dday, she changed, 4 days of "not her" in the house...until Feb 2. Feb 2 I came home at 11pm. Everyone was in bed, so down to the basement I go, as per usual. At approx. 2am I went upstairs to go to bed, to find Tabby on the phone with another man, THE man from back in BC. I asked who it was, she said it was "nobody" I asked again, same response. I asked what was going on, she said it wasn't a good time to talk, I kept bugging, insistant. She got up, we went downstairs, and she told me she wasn't happy, didn't want to be in the relationship anymore, that she hadn't been happy in a long time. I mentioned "Ian" (his name) and she said she still had unresolved feelings for him, said she wanted to know if when they slept together it was #$@&*G, or if it was making love, and that she had to know what he thought. She said long ago, I didn't give her the opportunity to find closure. I asked why she hadn't told me she was unhappy, she first told me that she can't talk to me, and then said, there hadn't been time. I asked what she intended to do. She told me it was her plan to have me quit my job here in Ontario, move all of us back to BC, I would find a new job and separate housing from her and the kids, so I could visit my kids. I told her it was ridiculous, that it took me almost a year to get the stable job I had, and that I would not go to BC so she could "see" what a relationship with him would be like, and of course, she was pissed. She said he had nothing to do with her decision. She said she wanted full custody, that she wanted a divorce...and I mentioned getting a lawyer. I also did what you all say I shouldn't do...I pled my case to stay together, she didn't buy it. She didn't care. She told me a woman should be with her kids as she stormed upstairs to the bedroom. That's it, go call your boyfriend, was the last thing I said to her that night, and back to my basement hole I went. That was 9 days ago. These past 9 days I've tried to focus, tried to improve things. On day 1, Feb. 3, I found Michelle's videos on youtube.com while looking for answers, and I watched, and learned. I learned things I didn't know at all. That the nagging I had heard, the bitching about my time downstairs, were her cries for help, and affection. I learned that my communication with her was just as misunderstood, and how the things I said to her were interpreted very different from what they were really suppose to mean. I found this site and forum, and I read, and I read. For nine days I've tried to do well, tried to cope without begging, which isn't really that difficult, as we hardly talk. I learned abit about the 180, and detaching. I started to do dishes again, and reluctantly go upstairs when I know she's done daycare, just to sit in the same room and see what happens. I spent more time with the kids. And I started to go out. Out of the last 9 days, I've been upstairs on 3 occasions, to watch a movie with her, but once I say goodnight, she's upstairs in bed, and again to the basement I go. Four days ago, I couldn't take all the pressure I'm feeling. I hear her on the phone at 530am, talking to him, laughing, though I had asked her to stop while she's in the house. It's been so frustrating. I decided to try to stop the contact. I exposed the emotional affair she had all over my facebook, to her parents, friends and family that morning. I of course, am the bad guy, and I am hated by all for it. But it was all I could do to save the marriage I didnt know I loved so much. The night I exposed the affair, I came home after work. She was livid, I expected that and accept it. She stormed into the basement. Told me that no matter what I did, said, tried or thought, she was "done". I asked her to spend one hour with me when the kids went to bed, one hour to let me show her things. She calmed down, and agreed. When she returned, I told her I understood why she spoke to this man again. I told her I understood that she was feeling emotionally abandoned, she agreed. I sat her down to watch each of Michelles videos on the net. I explained to her that I now understood her nagging, was really a plea for my time, I showed her that my desire for sex was my way of trying to "connect" with her. She said she understood a little. I told her how I felt, that I loved her, that I missed her. I told her things between us could be better than before, if we took one more shot at this marriage, if we worked not for our kids sake, but for us, that I think she'd be surprised at how far this could go together. She said she'd sleep on it. Before she left to go upstairs, I asked her to please not reach out to the OM until she's had time to think for herself...6hrs later, 5am in the morning, she's on the phone again...so much for hope. Two days ago, I tried to detach again. I went out. I didn't say where I was going, I just left for two hours. When I got home, it took 5mins for her to be down in the basement and she pleasantly asked where I was, so I was honest and told her coffee. She seemed content and left. 10 minutes later she was back, angry, arms crossed glaring at me. "So do you want to tell me where you REALLY were" was her question the second time, my answer remained the same. Yesterday, I put up my first few posts. I came home to write this story last night, but found some things. I found she has been in my facebook, reading my messages..I snooped, and found she signed up for match.com. I "had" to know. I was dying inside. Last night I went up and said something. I was calm, I was trying to be in control. I asked if she had been in my facebook. She said it may have accidentally popped up when she tried to log into her own. I told her that wasn't possible, and, that a female contact(s) had been looked up and msgs read. She admitted she looked. I asked her why, and she said it was just to see if I had written any more stuff about her to publish publicly. (which I dont believe, as all she would've had to do was look at my profile from her own to see any posts I've made). I asked her about the match.com confirmation of acceptance...she stated it was an advertisement. (I dont believe, as it was a "confirmation" of a profile and was found under her "ebay orders" folder.) I talked to her for approx. 1hr last night after this. She told me she's not interested in dating anyone, she said she wasn't planning to move out of the house, that she wasn't going anywhere for a very long time. (We had new windows put in yesterday, she even mentioned that we should ask the landlord for new front ones, so we can open them in the summer) I told her again how I felt, how I know she needs emotional and physical affection, how she needs to talk and be heard, and how it IS truly possible that what's happening between us can actually be better than anything it ever was. I told her I want to be close to her, that I miss being in the same bed, cuddling, ect. I asked her what I'm to do..I have no intent on leaving, nor does she, that living the way we are is a perfect chance to give it one more shot. She said she didn't think there was anything I could do, she said she didn't think she could feel anything happen again to change her outlook. I told her "I" knew it could work, if I was only afforded a crack in the wall she had up..that I couldn't do anything by myself, that I needed her help. But I needed to know where I stood if I were to attempt to show affection. I told her I yearn to be back in the same bed, to be close, that maybe her hardened heart over time would soften..as mine did when I was spending alot of time with the security woman years ago, and would see my wife. I compared it. (Basically, I was in an EA, allowed myself to open up to my wife during our visits, and got caught up in being in love with my wife again). She told me it would be wierd between us if I made advances, and she stopped it. I was hurt, but didnt say it. She went to bed, phone blinking in her pocket with a msg from him...and again, Im back in the basement. Alone.
Thats my story. I @!#$%% up last night. Bad. But, I learned a few things to.
1.) My going out the other day, really bothered her, even though she said she didn't "care"
2.) She has no plan to leave; at least, not for quite some time.
3.) I can now start the process. FOR REAL. She is fully aware
of how I feel. There's no need to say it again.
4.) There's some sort of "need to know" on her part. She's
snooped my email, facebook, and internet history.
5.) Separation/Divorce was not mentioned. Perhaps because
its because the EA (I'm sure it continues) isn't as great
or is fizzling out, or realization is kicking in, or though
its not expressed, she hasn't given "us" up yet, but can't
fathom what to do.
I dont know guys and girls. All I do know, is that my being in this state, unsure what I'm suppose to do. I understand GAL. I've signed up for Dance, I go out for coffee, joined a gym. Its the home time I'm having difficulty with. I'm trying to 180...do things around the house I hadn't done in forever...but when it comes to the overall "feel" here, I'm uncertain what to do. I spend most of my time (when I'm not out or at work) in the basement...a MAJOR issue for her (I now see). But I dont know how or what I'm suppose to do to change that pattern without it looking like I'm "trying to hard".
That all I can write for now. After last night, I'm honestly emotionally spent. See. Even now, Im downstairs doing this, and she's upstairs with all her daycare kids watching tv on the couch. Im such a wreck, I'm trying to figure out what to do when I get home tonight after 11. I know she'll be up there alone, watching tv...but do I man up, sit on the couch and try to make up for that time saying nothing, just "being".
Lost.
Two words: PARAGRAPH BREAKS.
This is unreadable. You'll get much better response if you break this up into shorter posts, and paragraphs.
Appologies. Once I started, I just typed. I have no idea how to edit it at all
just copy and paste it into Word, break it up into paragraphs, and re-post. Voila!
I made the biggest mistake I could have made last night. I'll fill you all in...here is my (our) story.
My wife Tabby and I have been married 6yrs. We have 2 small sons, S3 and S6. Tabby and I began dating, and had had a small hiccup during the first few months. She would spend alot of time on the phone texting the man who introduced us. I knew who he was, as he had introduced us. He was a cheat, constantly sleeping around with the people he worked with (in a bar). I mentioned my concern, and she stopped the communication.
The first year of our marriage was awesome, yet a little difficult. I was in the military and deployed around SE Asia for most of that first year. We lived together in a small house we rented. Tabby became pregnant with our first son while in that house. We became married shortly after, and moved to a second house. My career was coming to an end (my choice) as I was moving towards law enforcement. Our first son was born, and I took up late night security work.
During that second year of marriage, I was under the impression everything was fine between us. There was a little stress, I wasn't making as much money in my new job, and living in British Columbia on the island was very expensive. At one point, I had the sensation that something wasn't right. Before I went to work one evening, I put a keylogger/spyware on my computer. The next morning, I came home. Everyone asleep, I checked the computer to find all her passwords (facebook, ect) and followed a gut feeling. I found emails from Tabby to the man that had introduced us, the one she promised not to contact again. I was devestated. The emails talked about how she wanted him inside her again, and what it would be like if they were together. I left the Facebook page up, shut off the monitor, and waited until she woke up to find it. When she woke up, she was devestated, she was caught. She said she had had a dream, and felt she had to reach out to him. She begged, pleaded for me not to be upset, that we could discuss it, work things out, and move forward. I couldn't, not yet, it was too much. I continued to go to work, emotionally messed up, and began to talk to a fellow guard, a woman, who was understanding and kind.
I began to develop feeling for her, we spent time together for a few months. Everything felt new to me again, like I was falling for her. After two months of not knowing what to do, and thinking of my wife with another man, I talked to Tabby and told her I thought it was best if she took my son and stayed with her mom up the island, approx. 3hrs away. She did, she left for 6-8 months. During this time, I continued to work. I still spent time with this woman, and Tabby would come to the house to visit every week or every other week. She'd stay for a few days, we'd talk, we'd make the best love we'd ever made. I started to feel guilty the more time we'd spend together. I thought I was falling for this other woman at work, but when I'd see my wife and we'd make love, I'd realize just how much I was missing her. She became pregnant. I was lost in what and where I would go next. I think the woman from work began to see me change. Began to "see" me missing my wife. She detached and grew distant, I chased and pushed her further and further away.
My second son was born, and Tabby decided she was moving back to our city so our visits together could be easier, and got her own place. I began spending more time with her and my sons. I was over at the house on and off, and my visits became more frequent. We grew closer.
At the end of March 2013, we packed our belongings, rented a Uhaul, and moved to Ontario, where I was born. I flew in a week before she arrived. She drove with my kids and her mom from BC to Ontario. I had no job prospects, but knew they were more abundant in this province, so there was hope. All four of us lived with my mom from April 2013 December 2013 in her basement. I looked for work, Tabby tried to seek out a new career. It was tough, that 8 months in my mothers basement. December 2014 we moved to where we are now.
I had small menial jobs, Tabby fluctuated between Insurance and Real Estate, but ended up working a home daycare. I managed to get a job at the local Walmart working Loss Prevention. I spent alot of time in the basement; were I write from now. Detached already I suppose, as I'm not where I wished I would be at this point in my life. I hadn't spent too much time with her, or my kids. I toiled downstairs practicing online for my police exams, and playing games...anything to take my mind off my situation when it came to our family lifestyle...I had wanted more, and didn't have it.
Tabby would come downstairs, and tell me I spent too much time here...I didnt' understand she was reaching out for something, anything from me. I thought she was nagging at me. When once I used to do all the cooking, cleaning, ect. she found she was carrying most of the family load. I tried to change my pattern, spend time, but the day was out of the question. She had 4 daycare kids running around upstairs, plus my youngest son, she she's busy, and quite frankly, the kids don't like me a whole heck of alot.
In the evening, I would often wait until our kids were in bed, when I would spent time with her, (if I wasnt working, most shifts are 2pm-11pm) usually on the couch watching a movie, not really talking. We had been excited though, looking for a place, a new home, and recently talking about spending more time together, going out as a couple. We managed to go out 3 weeks ago to a Midieval Times dinner show, and we both had a blast, we talked about travelling to Florida, summer time road trips, visiting restaurants featured on TV....even sex, the last time we had it mid-Jan, was the best we had had in so long. I started feeling like we were connecting again, yet, for 4 days leading up to Dday, she changed, 4 days of "not her" in the house...until Feb 2.
Feb 2 I came home at 11pm. Everyone was in bed, so down to the basement I go, as per usual. At approx. 2am I went upstairs to go to bed, to find Tabby on the phone with another man, THE man from back in BC. I asked who it was, she said it was "nobody" I asked again, same response. I asked what was going on, she said it wasn't a good time to talk, I kept bugging, insistant. She got up, we went downstairs, and she told me she wasn't happy, didn't want to be in the relationship anymore, that she hadn't been happy in a long time. I mentioned "Ian" (his name) and she said she still had unresolved feelings for him, said she wanted to know if when they slept together it was #$@&*G, or if it was making love, and that she had to know what he thought. She said long ago, I didn't give her the opportunity to find closure.
I asked why she hadn't told me she was unhappy, she first told me that she can't talk to me, and then said, there hadn't been time. I asked what she intended to do. She told me it was her plan to have me quit my job here in Ontario, move all of us back to BC, I would find a new job and separate housing from her and the kids, so I could visit my kids. I told her it was ridiculous, that it took me almost a year to get the stable job I had, and that I would not go to BC so she could "see" what a relationship with him would be like, and of course, she was pissed. She said he had nothing to do with her decision. She said she wanted full custody, that she wanted a divorce...and I mentioned getting a lawyer. I also did what you all say I shouldn't do...I pled my case to stay together, she didn't buy it. She didn't care. She told me a woman should be with her kids as she stormed upstairs to the bedroom. That's it, go call your boyfriend, was the last thing I said to her that night, and back to my basement hole I went.
That was 9 days ago. These past 9 days I've tried to focus, tried to improve things. On day 1, Feb. 3, I found Michelle's videos on youtube.com while looking for answers, and I watched, and learned. I learned things I didn't know at all. That the nagging I had heard, the bitching about my time downstairs, were her cries for help, and affection. I learned that my communication with her was just as misunderstood, and how the things I said to her were interpreted very different from what they were really suppose to mean. I found this site and forum, and I read, and I read.
For nine days I've tried to do well, tried to cope without begging, which isn't really that difficult, as we hardly talk. I learned abit about the 180, and detaching. I started to do dishes again, and reluctantly go upstairs when I know she's done daycare, just to sit in the same room and see what happens. I spent more time with the kids. And I started to go out. Out of the last 9 days, I've been upstairs on 3 occasions, to watch a movie with her, but once I say goodnight, she's upstairs in bed, and again to the basement I go.
Four days ago, I couldn't take all the pressure I'm feeling. I hear her on the phone at 530am, talking to him, laughing, though I had asked her to stop while she's in the house. It's been so frustrating. I decided to try to stop the contact. I exposed the emotional affair she had all over my facebook, to her parents, friends and family that morning. I of course, am the bad guy, and I am hated by all for it. But it was all I could do to save the marriage I didnt know I loved so much.
The night I exposed the affair, I came home after work. She was livid, I expected that and accept it. She stormed into the basement. Told me that no matter what I did, said, tried or thought, she was "done". I asked her to spend one hour with me when the kids went to bed, one hour to let me show her things. She calmed down, and agreed. When she returned, I told her I understood why she spoke to this man again. I told her I understood that she was feeling emotionally abandoned, she agreed. I sat her down to watch each of Michelles videos on the net. I explained to her that I now understood her nagging, was really a plea for my time, I showed her that my desire for sex was my way of trying to "connect" with her. She said she understood a little. I told her how I felt, that I loved her, that I missed her. I told her things between us could be better than before, if we took one more shot at this marriage, if we worked not for our kids sake, but for us, that I think she'd be surprised at how far this could go together. She said she'd sleep on it.
Before she left to go upstairs, I asked her to please not reach out to the OM until she's had time to think for herself...6hrs later, 5am in the morning, she's on the phone again...so much for hope.
Two days ago, I tried to detach again. I went out. I didn't say where I was going, I just left for two hours. When I got home, it took 5mins for her to be down in the basement and she pleasantly asked where I was, so I was honest and told her coffee. She seemed content and left. 10 minutes later she was back, angry, arms crossed glaring at me. "So do you want to tell me where you REALLY were" was her question the second time, my answer remained the same.
Yesterday, I put up my first few posts. I came home to write this story last night, but found some things. I found she has been in my facebook, reading my messages..I snooped, and found she signed up for match.com. I "had" to know. I was dying inside.
Last night I went up and said something. I was calm, I was trying to be in control. I asked if she had been in my facebook. She said it may have accidentally popped up when she tried to log into her own. I told her that wasn't possible, and, that a female contact(s) had been looked up and msgs read. She admitted she looked. I asked her why, and she said it was just to see if I had written any more stuff about her to publish publicly. (which I dont believe, as all she would've had to do was look at my profile from her own to see any posts I've made). I asked her about the match.com confirmation of acceptance...she stated it was an advertisement. (I dont believe, as it was a "confirmation" of a profile and was found under her "ebay orders" folder.)
I talked to her for approx. 1hr last night after this. She told me she's not interested in dating anyone, she said she wasn't planning to move out of the house, that she wasn't going anywhere for a very long time. (We had new windows put in yesterday, she even mentioned that we should ask the landlord for new front ones, so we can open them in the summer) I told her again how I felt, how I know she needs emotional and physical affection, how she needs to talk and be heard, and how it IS truly possible that what's happening between us can actually be better than anything it ever was.
I told her I want to be close to her, that I miss being in the same bed, cuddling, ect. I asked her what I'm to do..I have no intent on leaving, nor does she, that living the way we are is a perfect chance to give it one more shot. She said she didn't think there was anything I could do, she said she didn't think she could feel anything happen again to change her outlook. I told her "I" knew it could work, if I was only afforded a crack in the wall she had up..that I couldn't do anything by myself, that I needed her help. But I needed to know where I stood if I were to attempt to show affection.
I told her I yearn to be back in the same bed, to be close, that maybe her hardened heart over time would soften..as mine did when I was spending alot of time with the security woman years ago, and would see my wife. I compared it. (Basically, I was in an EA, allowed myself to open up to my wife during our visits, and got caught up in being in love with my wife again). She told me it would be wierd between us if I made advances, and she stopped it. I was hurt, but didnt say it. She went to bed, phone blinking in her pocket with a msg from him...and again, Im back in the basement. Alone.
Thats my story. I @!#$%% up last night. Bad. But, I learned a few things to.
1.) My going out the other day, really bothered her, even though she said she didn't "care"
2.) She has no plan to leave; at least, not for quite some time.
3.) I can now start the process. FOR REAL. She is fully aware
of how I feel. There's no need to say it again.
4.) There's some sort of "need to know" on her part. She's
snooped my email, facebook, and internet history.
5.) Separation/Divorce was not mentioned. Perhaps because
its because the EA (I'm sure it continues) isn't as great
or is fizzling out, or realization is kicking in, or though
its not expressed, she hasn't given "us" up yet, but can't
fathom what to do.
I dont know guys and girls. All I do know, is that my being in this state, unsure what I'm suppose to do. I understand GAL. I've signed up for Dance, I go out for coffee, joined a gym. Its the home time I'm having difficulty with. I'm trying to 180...do things around the house I hadn't done in forever...but when it comes to the overall "feel" here, I'm uncertain what to do. I spend most of my time (when I'm not out or at work) in the basement...a MAJOR issue for her (I now see). But I dont know how or what I'm suppose to do to change that pattern without it looking like I'm "trying to hard".
That all I can write for now. After last night, I'm honestly emotionally spent. See. Even now, Im downstairs doing this, and she's upstairs with all her daycare kids watching tv on the couch. Im such a wreck, I'm trying to figure out what to do when I get home tonight after 11. I know she'll be up there alone, watching tv...but do I man up, sit on the couch and try to make up for that time saying nothing, just "being".
Lost.
Just a quick add. I also noticed when she spoke about staying for such an extended time she said "we", a time or two. "We" might be able to open up new windows if they install them in the front of the house. The change in her "intent" if I may call it that was evident as well. On Bday, she was "done", the day I exposed the affair publicly she was "done". Then I go out, BAM questions with genuine anger. And the convo last night? Wasn't "done" it was more I dont "think" this and I dont "think" that...there wasn't the same steadfast "know I'm done" type of air to responses to what I said. I'm still going out Friday night for me, yes. But after last night, I'm interested to see what that response will be. And no Starsk 8) I dont care if its nice, I just care that it has an affect.
I asked before I left the conversation what SHE thinks I should do, she said she didn't know and couldn't tell me. So, I asked "are we suppose to see other people?"..interesting how she became a little, almost irritated when she answered "Do you really want to find another girlfriend right now?" Hmm.
Thanks guys, sorry for the vent and babble. I keep remembering things that have been said, and the reactions I noticed.
So, I asked "are we suppose to see other people?"..interesting how she became a little, almost irritated when she answered "Do you really want to find another girlfriend right now?" Hmm.
Mac, considering your own past infidelity, do you REALLY think that's the card you wanted to lead with there?
Starsky
No, it wasn't, and your right. I'm frustrated, and I was trying to get her to tell me what it is I'm suppose to do from her perspective, while trying to keep calm. I fell into the same trap a lot of others seem to at the beginning of a similar situation. I wanted answers now. And I wanted to know how far was too far with my wife. I'm ancy. Just the small bits of information I've come to understand from watching MW's videos gives me some perspective on the how and why my wife feels the way she does. Admittedly, now there's a part of me that wants to give my wife what she needs.
I apologize Starsk. I've never been this afraid to make mistakes
Once we hugged, I was, well, an idiot. It was a mistake to even ask her about her snooping. It was in some way, some reassurance that she's still thinking about me on some level, and instead of being happy with that, I screwed up. That, I understand.
I was trying to get her to tell me what it is I'm suppose to do from her perspective . . .
Why? That's not LEADING.
You don't want the one who does NOT have the marriage's best interests at heart right now to do the leading. YOU should be leading. Even if you two weren't on the rocks right now, women generally find this unattractive (it's the whole "Where do you want to go out for dinner tonite?" and us guys say "I don't care, anywhere you wanna go." WOMEN HATE THAT!!)
Still trying to get thru your entire post (it's LOOONG!), but that just jumped out at me.
Starsky
Absolutely, it wasnt leading..and that dinner question analogy, that's been me. Man the things I've done wrong. In the military, it was so much easier to lead. In this relationship though, so hard to know what to do for dear of making a mistake.
I appreciate the time and patience you're having with me though. Not too many people that willingly listen to a 41 year old man spill his guts
Start with this: LOSE THE FEAR. Until you do that, you'll get nowhere.
Are you familiar with the "you're already dead" scene in Band of Brothers? THAT is the mindset you need to adapt, pronto.
And you're welcome; I'm happy to help. Since this forum helped me save my own marriage, I like to come on here and "pay it forward," as it were.
Starsky
This is what I'm thinking. @#$% it, you aren't really here anyway. When I'm home, I will be on the couch watching TV, spending time, even if there's no talking, even just to be THERE. I will be upbeat, and play with the kids, be the best dad possible. I will do things around the house like a responsible adult in a good marriage, I WILL take the kids out and ASK her to come along, if she comes great, if not, no bother. When I come home if she's there great, if not I WONT ask where she was. And I WILL go to dance class, the gym, and out with other people. (?)
After all. The way I figure it. If she wanted to be gone completely (not just on an emotional level) she'd find/have found a way to do so, instead of remaining in the same house; especially for what is at least until June/July (?). Maybe grasping at straws here.
3.) I can now start the process. FOR REAL. She is fully aware
of how I feel. There's no need to say it again.
Good, glad to see you say that. Cuz you two sure TALK a lot!!!
Also, now that you've stated your case, you need to STOP ALL PURSUIT. I see a TON of pursuit in that long exchange there, and I know you know that as well when you step back and look at it. This is going to take a lot of SELF-DISCIPLINE on your part, and your wife cannot feel like you're just sitting there, waiting to be her "Plan B" at this point.
You've told her that you "get it," you understand where you fell short. Now it's time for ACTIONS, not more words. You can either hard-core affair-bust here (my normal recommendation), or do something almost completely different and give her the ol' RobX "let her go" speech. Are you familiar with that one?
Starsky
After all. The way I figure it. If she wanted to be gone completely (not just on an emotional level) she'd find/have found a way to do so, instead of remaining in the same house; especially for what is at least until June/July (?).
Well of course. There's a reason they call it "cake-eating"; she wants her cake
and eat it too. She wants both of you on her string. The key is to REMOVE YOURSELF from her equation.
Starsky
I don't know the hard core affair bust, the Robx sounds like giving an ultimatum.
It's actually quite the opposite. From my own personal archives:
"Puppy's Short Version, All-Inclusive Advice" for Waylayed Spouses Who Just Got Bombed"1. Get proof (of whether or not there's OM/OW). Hint: There almost always is.
2. Do either:
2a. Aggressive affair-busting (see Allen A's posts over in Infidelity)
Allen A's Posts ; or
2b. "Set Them Free" (Robx/Gucci approach)
"Setting Them Free" Those are the only two things I've seen work. If #1 turns up nothing, then proceed to #2b. And in the meantime, GAL your ass off, and become the better option. Best case, you'll attract them back, and at a minimum you'll become a better person that will be more attractive to SOMEBODY in your next relationship.
And removing myself from the equation. THATS my problem there. I don't know how. Meaning when I'm actually IN the house what do I do. See, I don't want to resort to being in the basement, that irked the hell out of her. But, I don't want to make it worse by being 'available' to her or 'in her face' sitting silently on the couch (silently, because you are right, there's been a lot of comma from my end...want to watch a movie, did you record anything, how was your day, how were the kids, ect.). Its difficult to just go out, she had issues with me controlling the finances and the money I make at work has been going into her account the past 6months so, if I want money, I've had to 'ask'. I corrected it a few days ago, it'll take two weeks from now, but it'll be going into my account. That's why yesterday, I said I couldn't afford the books.
(NOTE: I think you would need to adjust this and directly confront and acknowledge your own prior EA, to be fair and credible here)
RobX’s approach:
Sit her down and have a discussion with her.
No need to be mad, angry, a$$hole, prick on anything,
keep it calm, light but straight forward, direct to the point, etc. Don't make it last more than a few minutes.
You tell her trust is based on actions that are consistent.
You don't trust her because she hasn't been consistent.
You don't trust her because she's been lying to you, in fact you tell her that is what you trust her to continue doing, because she has been lying to your consistently - that's what you can trust.
For you to be able to trust her, she has to build trust.
Sure you can trust her blindly and have faith and all that good stuff but honestly how well has that worked up to this point?
Don't ask for for full disclosure.
Do the opposite.
Tell her this:
"... I don't want your cell phone records, I don't want to look at your cell phone text msg's and call history, I don't want your email or fb password, I don't want your voicemail pw. If I have to monitor you 24/7 to force you to be consistent, that won't work for me because that's not what I want or need.
I wanted you to be trustworthy but I don't need you to be anything, truth be told, I'll be just fine without you, I see that now.
From now on I'm moving in this direction, if you want to come along, go ahead, I won't control you and tell you that can or can't come but I can't wait for you anymore and you already know that if you're with the OM, you aren't with me, I'm not settling for anything less than that.
If you really want to be with the OM, I really can't say or do anything to stop that and you should be with him if you're willing to lie so much to me, if you can't be true to me that means he's more important to you than I am and you know what... I'm ok with that because I'm more important to me and that's all that matters - I see that now.
If you wanted to be with me, you knew that you had alot of trust to rebuild and that's only through consistent action and I'm through with pressuring you to be my wife, I don't want to be with someone who doesn't want to be with me and that's pretty much what it looks like to me so let's stop playing games: you go and be with the OM, I'm ok with that, in fact I'm better than OK, I'm awesome because I'm finally being honest with myself about all of this and that includes being honest about who you are and where you are right now. I know what I'm worth and I've been settling for less for too long.
I can't wait for you anymore, I've spent enough time waiting for you to do the right thing and I know that doesn't work because I would probably have to wait forever and still not get what I wanted. So you can do what you want, be with the OM, I hope he makes you happy and I'm going to start wanting something better for me."
No being mean, spiteful, vindictive, you let her go.
No more discussions, arguments, no more talks about lies, no more sneaking around behind your back, she can do what she wants but you are letting her go to do what she wants to do but at the same time, you are now allowing yourself to be free of this crappy limbo place you've been living in for so long.
Bro, if she wants to be with you, she'll be with you, no amount of a$$ kissing, sneaking, snooping, being mean, angry, standing tall, etc. is going to change that.
You be the best gosh darn example of a MAN for you and for you only. If she wants this great MAN that you are in her life, she'll pursue you and do what it takes to be a part of that.
You need to respect yourself first, that's the first step and letting go of your wife her untrustworthy ways to establish that your self-respect, dignity and integrity are the most important things in your life is what you NEED and WANT to do. You know what you're worth, go out and get what you're worth and let go of the things that are worthy of you - starting feeling your personal value, know it, resonate with it, live it. You are worth better than what she is giving you right now, if you don't set that boundary, you'll allow her to do this to you forever and who could respect that?
Otherwise continue playing this game and you'll be playing this chase & pursue game, pushing & pulling for the rest of your life.
Time to get off the merry go round, this ride isn't that fun anymore.
That's what I want to do, like everyone says, detach, let her want to snoop, want to see what she can find out, let her spend more energy facilitating answers to where I am, who I'm with, what I've been doing. God, going outs going to cost me a fortune 8)
I agree. Its been 9 days, and from the phone records its been a total conversation between them for maybe 17 days. She's (to me) obviously torn, (this one or that one)in her head, or she'd be gone, not just emotionally, but physically.. and she wouldn't have reacted at ALL the way she did the very first time I was gone for only two hours, just two days ago if her EA was as solid as I thought it was. GAL my ass off, go out, wherever and whenever I want, no "I'm going here or there" just gone. Let her stew, her worry about what's going on. Is he with someone, he left his phone, so I can't call. Buy new clothes and wear them when I go out. Wear cologne. Let her see me genuinely happy when I leave and come back. Spend time with the kids, and let her see I'm an awesome dad...I'm going for #1 before #2 approach. And I am going to get my marriage back.
Ah, just read the Robx, had an epiphany. I'm still THERE when I sit her down. I'm still THERE after the Talkings done. AND, though in the same house I'm "gone"! Free.
You seem a little manic, bro. Relax. THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. You have NO IDEA how firm (or not) her EA is -- totaL MINDREADING.
Slow and steady, wins the race.
Starsky
Just scared. The changes in my life (the GAL) is so different for me than the norm. All the things I'll be doing will be things I've wanted to do with my wife. Though necessary for the survival of my marriage. Doing what needs to be done for me, is on some level or other going to end up hurting my wife. Let me ask you something. When you were at home, not out GAL'ing to save yours, how did you do it? How did you cope with the mere sight of her and the flood of emotion you must have undoubtedly felt, and appear content. How did you sit in the same room and not crumble?
I avoided her. Tried to minimize my time in the house when I knew she would be there (while still making sure my kids were taken care of), and then when we DID have to both be there, trying to be in separate rooms as much as possible (without making such a big deal out of it so as to make the kids uncomfortable).
Cuz when I had to interact with her, it would usually send me spinning.
Roger that. My being isolated in the basement prior to this all happening, bothered her a lot. Last night, when I spewed, she mentioned she thought I had been being cold to her lately. That's why I ask so much about 'how' I should be. I remember reading about the 180's..so I thought a 180 for me would be to do the exact opposite, so as not to continue the behavior she hated so much. I didn't/don't want to be seen as "not changing" that behavior by continuing to do it. But, I suppose, the more I'm around her physically, the less she can miss me, the less effective my now imminent detachment will affect her, and, let's face it...in the grand scheme of things, its the detachment, and wondering of where the hell I am and who the hell I may be with, that will turn this cart around.
Your right my man, this is going to be tough. My mom was a shrink. She figures my wife has no idea what she's doing, didn't expect any of this to happen when she reached out to him the first time (this time). She figures my wife isn't gone, because she never intended to leave, but is stuck somewhere in her head. She swims in the fantasy, but knows there's a reality, hence, if I'm out, she's upset. Mom believes it may not take too long for the emotional attachment between them to end..she figures my wife will continue to talk about the things going on at home, downgrade me, our marriage only for so long, until he gets tired of hearing it. Told my mom about all of you here online, supporting those of us needing a life-vest now. She told me how you're all very smart, told me to shut up and do what I'm told.
She believes that my wife absolutely has feelings for me, even if I can't see them. If she didn't, shed already be out the door. Ma said that once I start this detachment process, to expect anger from my wife first, as a precursor to fear, ifshefeepoinrmmm drifting away. She also told me to keep focused, as at this point my wife may crash if she thinks I'm finished, and be ready to pick up the pieces and be there for her.
Your right my man, this is going to be tough. My mom was a shrink. She figures my wife has no idea what she's doing, didn't expect any of this to happen when she reached out to him the first time (this time). She figures my wife isn't gone, because she never intended to leave, but is stuck somewhere in her head. She swims in the fantasy, but knows there's a reality, hence, if I'm out, she's upset. Mom believes it may not take too long for the emotional attachment between them to end..she figures my wife will continue to talk about the things going on at home, downgrade me, our marriage only for so long, until he gets tired of hearing it. Told my mom about all of you here online, supporting those of us needing a life-vest now. She told me how you're all very smart, told me to shut up and do what I'm told.
She believes that my wife absolutely has feelings for me, even if I can't see them. If she didn't, shed already be out the door. Ma said that once I start this detachment process, to expect anger from my wife first, as a precursor to fear, ifshefeepoinrmmm drifting away. She also told me to keep focused, as at this point my wife may crash if she thinks I'm finished, and be ready to pick up the pieces and be there for her.
Her feelings on you may restore if the feelings for the "OM" flip. However most of us who have gone through the scenario understand it may take even more than one near death experience to awaken a WAS to who they were before, a lot of time they have new friends and support structures in these affairs, and they will not cast them out.
The good advice here, is to be detached. And you know that means not worrying about what she is doing, it should have no affect on you. Your buddy decided to party with your enemies for a while, and thinks he's having the time of his life. That's how it is.
Also over time, their attachement to the affair partner grows stronger. If you have shown an unusual amount of integrity over the process, over time they will remember that. But it would take years of them moving on into a BS situation, realizing their ex had so much integrity and care for them and no one else really would... They will have feelings then.
Be strong. We all have been through the scenario and some of us more than once.
I avoided her. Tried to minimize my time in the house when I knew she would be there (while still making sure my kids were taken care of), and then when we DID have to both be there, trying to be in separate rooms as much as possible (without making such a big deal out of it so as to make the kids uncomfortable).
Cuz when I had to interact with her, it would usually send me spinning.
The interaction with the WAS would weaken or anger you. And you knew the interactions were a LIE, because as long as she had OM it was a LIE. I agree it is best to minimize communication with a WAS active in an affair.
If your name is on the lease or your splitting payment you can either have them move out, you move out and stop paying your part. Have her support herself fully or OM to help out.
JESUS. We had it out today. She found out I knew that she had a "Match.com" profile created, that she lied about 2 days ago. She told me she's not looking for someone else. She also stated she's not going anywhere (leaving the house). She mentioned that she knew the relationship was going to head this way since last summer (apparently, she talked to her cousin about it). Instinctivly, I dont believe that. She isnt' a great liar, and she can't pretend for 6-7 months that well. Honestly, after 6 yrs of dealing with this on and off, as you all know, you get quite good at being perceptive about whats going on around you. She stated she thought the chat she had the other night (where she said "she couldn't tell me what to do or not to do" implied that she wanted me to leave the house. I told her today, that I have no intention of leaving. All she said was "than you're going to have a very long term comfortable stay." Y'know what gang? That's okay. We shall see how this detachment will start affecting her. She attempted to defend the OM's thoughts "how do YOU know he doesnt care about what's happening in our home?" DUH, he got involved and continues to do so knowing it affects a family.
Why (after I've seen a few glimmers of hope (her anger when I went out) and NO definitive "GET OUT" or "I'm leaving") does it feel hope sits at zero. @#$%# day.
Why (after I've seen a few glimmers of hope (her anger when I went out) and NO definitive "GET OUT" or "I'm leaving") does it feel hope sits at zero. @#$%# day.
Precisely why I warned you about this, and said:
You seem a little manic, bro. Relax. THIS IS A MARATHON, NOT A SPRINT. You have NO IDEA how firm (or not) her EA is -- totaL MINDREADING.
Slow and steady, wins the race.
Starsky
Us men are fixers, and that's OK. But some fixes require you to
play the long game, not just short-term magic bullets.
Is "paranoia" part of the EA? She say me talking to my oldest today (who's having a hard time) and thinks I'm feeding him 'bad information' out of spite or vindictiveness.
Well, she just came downstairs and freaked out. She said she has no intent on leaving, her home day care is here, our kids are here, and I should find a place to live. I told her I would be going nowhere, that she wants what she wants, thats fine, but she can take the action to do so of her own valition. Now I hear her muttering upstairs to herself "now I'm @#$%^ stressed". Too bad.
Is "paranoia" part of the EA? She say me talking to my oldest today (who's having a hard time) and thinks I'm feeding him 'bad information' out of spite or vindictiveness.
Yes, absolutely very much wayward
SCRIPT. Perfectly normal.
She is PISSED. Wow. I expect next, she'll attempt to make me seem like a bitter old man and attempt to take steps to make me look abusive, or cruel in some way. Heard on the phone with someone, heard her mention the facebook post I put up about her having an affair.
Don't pin your hope to her mood. It has very little bearing on your long-term success (or lack thereof).
Formulate a plan, and stick to it. What are your long-term marital goals? What can you do THIS MONTH to get you there? What can you do THIS WEEK -- TODAY -- to get you there?
If you found drugs in your teenager's bedroom, and grounded him for a month, and he was PI$$ED . . . would you base the wisdom of your parenting decision on his reaction to it? Or would you withstand the blowback with a "I'm doing this because I love you, and I'm fighting for you here" mentality?
Starsky
I'm basically having my chat with her the other day (where I told her how I felt) thrown into my face. She told me she doesnt know how I can be this way...from telling her I love her and wanting things to work out, to being "mean" and "bullying" her since I have no intent to leave the house. She told me somone who loves someone else doesnt do this to her. She said I'm living in a dream, and that I went from nice to mean. I told her, no, I just decided not to be a doormat. She said she has wanted to go since the summer...I told her that maybe instead of the pretending she admitted to, that she should have been open to me and talked. She said she couldn't for fear I'd be mad, but that maybe I was right...so, I told her, her pretending and lack of communication got us to this point, that it would've carried on all nice nice if I didnt find her on the phone, she'd still be pretending. She said she would've. J
Just came down again, crying, asked if she could take the boys to see her family this weekend. I said no problem. I'll be letting her know that if she doesnt come back though, I'll be getting an injunction for their return. (if thats a good idea) After all, I cannot trust her.
Im unsure if Im doing the right thing. This doesnt seem like it can be solved, even in the long run. I feel...guilty.
And then I have concern over the "support" she'll be offered by her Aunt/Uncle/Cousin she'll be with. I'm certain (as she lies to me, and I can assume her parents at this point) that she'll give her version of what's going on...skipping things like the EA and replacing it with "I just dont love him". It will be easier to tell a story, than to admit a truth. How does one battle that? Phew this is hard. She admitted today (I've been getting text by my female boss at work about mine, AND her similar situation) that she checked my msgs this morning "Oh is JULIE now giving you advice??? Unbelievable.
What do you feel guilty about? Taking a strong stand that makes her cry?
Try to adopt a mindset of -- and even TELL her this, calmly and lovingly when she spews at you -- "I'm sorry you feel that way. Everything I'm doing, I'm doing to try to save our marriage and our family."
Im unsure if Im doing the right thing. This doesnt seem like it can be solved, even in the long run.
Wow, you've given it 10 whole days. Do you fight for EVERYTHING you care about this tenaciously?
I did. She said theres nothing to save. And that all of you, counselors I talked to, are full of $hit and dont know what you're talking about. A bunch of guys that lost and are pining away for their wives and wont give up hope on something hopeless.
I've been getting text by my female boss at work about mine, AND her similar situation) . . .
This is so inappropriate, on SO many levels . . .
I know, I can't believe its hopeless. It's just all unwravelling as I'm typing.
No no no, not like that. She hasn't been at work for a month, and heard that I was having difriculty at home, asked if I needed time off. She just got out of a bad relationship. I havent told her anything about my sitch, she was just asking. I've had all my bosses send me something.
I understand what you're saying though. For my WIFE its a huge hit.
She told me if I move out, she promises she will participate in "shared custody" Up here in Ontario, it basically means, each parent has the children an equal amount of time each month. She wants me to spend as much time with the kids as possible. (Interesting considering today I'm World's Biggest A$$hole).
I know, I can't believe its hopeless. It's just all unwravelling as I'm typing.
No, it's not. You're basing that assessment on your wife's EMOTIONS, and how she's TREATING you.
Don't make the mistake of leading with your FEELINGS. Lead with your PLAN.
Starsky
She told me if I move out, she promises she will participate in "shared custody" Up here in Ontario, it basically means, each parent has the children an equal amount of time each month. She wants me to spend as much time with the kids as possible. (Interesting considering today I'm World's Biggest A$$hole).
Keeps you "on the hook". Plus it keeps you in her reach, so she will be able to communicate with you. She gets to do her side stuff with OM(s) often enough, and split it up so that it's cleanly done within the system.
Sorry, didn't think this would happen today. It so bad at the house right now.
You think she's got anything positive or "what have I done?" thinking going on in her head (I know, its mindreading) or just seething with anger right now. Don't these wives think?
I know, I can't believe its hopeless. It's just all unwravelling as I'm typing.
No, it's not. You're basing that assessment on your wife's EMOTIONS, and how she's TREATING you.
Don't make the mistake of leading with your FEELINGS. Lead with your PLAN.
Starsky
Be strong.
You think she's got anything positive or "what have I done?" thinking going on in her head (I know, its mindreading) or just seething with anger right now.
Sure. She probably waffles back and forth a dozen times a day.
Not rationally if they're in an A. It's all emotionally driven, with anger, resentment and entitlement thrown in. Add in any addictive aspects fueled by the A and you're looking at a mess. Don't expect much.
And it can go on for months and will drive YOU insane if you let it.
So Starsky's hinted a few times now... What is YOUR plan to detach from the crazy train so that you can deal with this objectively over the long term and have the best chance of coming through this in better shape than when you arrived?
All I can do is be gone..out trying to better myself, finish the police dept testing process, enjoy the company of other people, go to work, hit the gym. Im not intending on leaving the house, even tho for her it would set her up well (my lawyer told me NOT to leave), and spend time with my kids being a dad. Upon the verbal assaults, react calmly, and yet, put money aside in case something unexpected happens.
I was talking quietly to my son this morning. He didn't speak to her, so, of course, after dropping him off at school, she wants to know what I said that "made" him ignore her. While she was talking, I got 2 texts...she noticed. My youngest was downstairs, she told him to leave, he took my phone with him. Next thing I know she's checking my phone and in my face wanting to know who and why I'm talking to someone. I tried something I thought was appropriate, and said something like "at this point do you seriously think I need to give you answers to your questions?"...set her off even more
Mac00, hang in there. I remember my W picking up my phone and going through it in front of my face. I politely asked her what she thought she was doing and since I had looked at hers to verify the PA, she said turnabout was fair play. I smiled and said since I have nothing to hide, enjoy looking at my phone. She handed it back. I still haven't put a password protection on it as I truly have nothing to hide.
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
I guess , even with how WAY out of control the switch was at home this morning, I'm surprised she still HAD to check. Nothing to hide here either. And honestly, I'm happy she did, even in this chaos right now, its a good sign.
The waffle back and forth....I truly hope so. I've come (very quickly) to the realization things will get much worse before they get better.
God Mac00 I need to go back and read yours from the dead beginning. The above sounds like we are married to the same cheating W. All she has done is threaten me "then if that is what you want, then file" but has no plans to do anything, never has. Isn't leaving, isn't helping around the home and keeps running constantly in my sitch. Yet thinks we are the devil for bringing up reality. The audacity right?
Preaching to the choir my man. The reality for mine, perhaps may be sinking in, after this a.m. I'm not lifting a finger to enable her behavior. I'm hurting the kids? No, I'm trying to be honest with them, prepare my oldest and keep the family together. If you loved me like you say you do, you'd just go! No, I stay BECAUSE I love you. You're being an A$$hole! No, I understand where I went wrong, identify and take ownership of the role I played in your emotional detachment, understand and FORGIVE you for going where you mistakenly think things will be better, and am here when the chips fall; and they will. I'm being a husband.
If we file, it's easier for them when we're gone. Another thing "we" did to "them". A means to allow them NOT to take ownership. And they need to to start the healing process.
I tried something I thought was appropriate, and said something like "at this point do you seriously think I need to give you answers to your questions?"...set her off even more
Mac00, hang in there. I remember my W picking up my phone and going through it in front of my face. I politely asked her what she thought she was doing and since I had looked at hers to verify the PA, she said turnabout was fair play. I smiled and said since I have nothing to hide, enjoy looking at my phone. She handed it back. I still haven't put a password protection on it as I truly have nothing to hide.
Love this ^^^^.
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
One thing I'd encourage you to do is NOT feel like you need to have an answer for every one of her questions, or even necessarily a response. And if you do respond, there's always stand-bys like "I'm sorry you feel that way." or "Yes, I have heard you that you feel ________. I get it." Or, shorter, "Yes, I get it" or "Yes, I hear you." Or just shake your head, stare at her incredulously, and say "Wow."
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
btw, this ^^^^ shows she's
SPINNING. This is GOOD.
She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. . . . Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this..."
A: "I'm sorry that you didn't think this through, and that your choices are causing you stress. No matter what you might feel about be right now, I do NOT enjoy seeing you stressed. You're a bright woman though -- I'm sure you'll figure it out."
See, now she's mad and I'm the A-hole. She was under the impression I was doing everything regarding step/divorce. She didn't do anything, nothing at all. She's been taking with the EA like there's no tomorrow, happy. After all, "I" was the bad guy, "I" was the one "doing" something to her. She now is coming to the realization "she" has to get her hands bloody..SHE is going to be the disruption in our kids lives. SHE is going to have to spend time away from her "everything is going so well for me" life. And that [censored].
I love the "wow".
That's next.
She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. . . . Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this..."
A: "I'm sorry that you didn't think this through, and that your choices are causing you stress. No matter what you might feel about be right now, I do NOT enjoy seeing you stressed. You're a bright woman though -- I'm sure you'll figure it out."
Oh that's good.
yes yes yes. Now don't worry about her making you the A-hole. She's going to do that because it's easier to point at you than to turn that wrist to point at herself. Don't buy into what she's saying, and no need to argue it.
Just don't be the A-hole - I mean give her no reason to make you the bad guy. At least you'll feel better about yourself.
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
btw, this ^^^^ shows she's
SPINNING. This is GOOD.
Good. Maybe she'll put at least a small amount of thought into this.
yes yes yes. Now don't worry about her making you the A-hole. She's going to do that because it's easier to point at you than to turn that wrist to point at herself. Don't buy into what she's saying, and no need to argue it.
Just don't be the A-hole - I mean give her no reason to make you the bad guy. At least you'll feel better about yourself.
No worries, I'm her husband. I have zero concern about what her friends and family think of me. She's going to her cousins house for the weekend. I'm sure the story will be ridiculously skewed. She'll get some emotional support from them "That A-hole", ect...its unfortunate, but, I don't care. She will know the truth.
No worries, I'm her husband. I have zero concern about what her friends and family think of me. She's going to her cousins house for the weekend. I'm sure the story will be ridiculously skewed. She'll get some emotional support from them "That A-hole", ect...its unfortunate, but, I don't care. She will know the truth.
btw, even though I'm very pro-exposure, there are ways that "Wow" line can work even without exposing. Say the relatives then come to you and ask you about the marital problems, indicating CLEARLY that she has told them NOTHING about OM. Say they even point to something totally different (and totally your fault, naturally). You can just look at them, shake your head, and say "Wow. Is that really what she told you was the reason? Wow."
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
btw, this ^^^^ shows she's
SPINNING. This is GOOD.
I noticed the complete change immediately. It was like a complete slap back to reality. As soon as I made the decision to be the LEADER as opposed to DOORMAT, in that moment, she was devastated and in tears.
No worries, I'm her husband. I have zero concern about what her friends and family think of me. She's going to her cousins house for the weekend. I'm sure the story will be ridiculously skewed. She'll get some emotional support from them "That A-hole", ect...its unfortunate, but, I don't care. She will know the truth.
btw, even though I'm very pro-exposure, there are ways that "Wow" line can work even without exposing. Say the relatives then come to you and ask you about the marital problems, indicating CLEARLY that she has told them NOTHING about OM. Say they even point to something totally different (and totally your fault, naturally). You can just look at them, shake your head, and say "Wow. Is that really what she told you was the reason? Wow."
Absolutely. Her mom and pop are in BC. The family she's going to see she's seen less than a hand full of times since we've been married. Maybe, ohh 3-4 times. The day after I exposed it on FB though my mom got a call at her house from (we believe) her mom. My mom never returned the call. I, as well as my mom believe the marital issues should not be discussed amongst spousal families.
I'm not saying it's good because I want to see her devastated and in tears. I'm saying it's good because perhaps she's QUESTIONING the path she is on, and because -- as they say -- the opposite of love isn't hate, it's APATHY.
The depth of her passion on the subject shows that she's still in love with you, and the erratic behavior and poor decision-making shows me that she does not have a well-thought-out plan.
AllenA used to very cogently point out how a wayward's decision-making options are pretty much boiled down to:
1) Keep having my affair, and keep my husband/wife as Plan B until I decide for sure what I want to do;
2) End my affair, and return to work on my marriage with my spouse;
3) Keep having my affair, and make the decision to END my marriage over it, because my affair partner is more important to me than my spouse is.
What you want to do with an early, strong "I will not live in an open marriage, and I won't wait forever" stance is remove #1 as a viable option for them, forcing them to choose between #2 and #3.
The RUB is, however, that many (most?) people are so co-dependent and so TERRIFIED that their spouse will choose #3, that they are afraid to remove #1, and therefore they stand no chance of their wayward spouse ever choosing #2.
Is it a risk? Sure, but unless you're willing to live with the SHEER HELL of #1 -- "limbo" -- it's a risk worth taking, in my opinion. Because limbo will kill you ... especially us men.
Starsky
I'm not saying it's good because I want to see her devastated and in tears. I'm saying it's good because perhaps she's QUESTIONING the path she is on, and because -- as they say -- the opposite of love isn't hate, it's APATHY.
The depth of her passion on the subject shows that she's still in love with you, and the erratic behavior and poor decision-making shows me that she does not have a well-thought-out plan.
AllenA used to very cogently point out how a wayward's decision-making options are pretty much boiled down to:
1) Keep having my affair, and keep my husband/wife as Plan B until I decide for sure what I want to do;
2) End my affair, and return to work on my marriage with my spouse;
3) Keep having my affair, and make the decision to END my marriage over it, because my affair partner is more important to me than my spouse is.
What you want to do with an early, strong "I will not live in an open marriage, and I won't wait forever" stance is remove #1 as a viable option for them, forcing them to choose between #2 and #3.
The RUB is, however, that many (most?) people are so co-dependent and so TERRIFIED that their spouse will choose #3, that they are afraid to remove #1, and therefore they stand no chance of their wayward spouse ever choosing #2.
Is it a risk? Sure, but unless you're willing to live with the SHEER HELL of #1 -- "limbo" -- it's a risk worth taking, in my opinion. Because limbo will kill you ... especially us men.
Starsky
I'm pretty sure she knows #1 is gone. She said the other day, even yesterday that she feelsvno tension in the house at all, that she was fine. Today, before she lost it she said "fine then, have fun living with the tension for a very long time". When she lost it, she said " do you really think its good for you to be here causing all the tension in the house, letting affect the kids?
My thought? Take a good long look in the mirror lady, THERES your tension.
And the in-love part? Christ I hope so.
Tension came to visit when she made the unilateral decision to invite a third person into your marriage, without your consent.
And the in-love part? . . . I hope so.
I should have said "clearly still loves you." The IN-love thing is feelings-based, and obviously that's not where she is right now. But if she no longer loved you, I don't think she'd be this upset.
I'm not saying it's good because I want to see her devastated and in tears. I'm saying it's good because perhaps she's QUESTIONING the path she is on, and because -- as they say -- the opposite of love isn't hate, it's APATHY.
The depth of her passion on the subject shows that she's still in love with you, and the erratic behavior and poor decision-making shows me that she does not have a well-thought-out plan.
AllenA used to very cogently point out how a wayward's decision-making options are pretty much boiled down to:
1) Keep having my affair, and keep my husband/wife as Plan B until I decide for sure what I want to do;
2) End my affair, and return to work on my marriage with my spouse;
3) Keep having my affair, and make the decision to END my marriage over it, because my affair partner is more important to me than my spouse is.
What you want to do with an early, strong "I will not live in an open marriage, and I won't wait forever" stance is remove #1 as a viable option for them, forcing them to choose between #2 and #3.
The RUB is, however, that many (most?) people are so co-dependent and so TERRIFIED that their spouse will choose #3, that they are afraid to remove #1, and therefore they stand no chance of their wayward spouse ever choosing #2.
Is it a risk? Sure, but unless you're willing to live with the SHEER HELL of #1 -- "limbo" -- it's a risk worth taking, in my opinion. Because limbo will kill you ... especially us men.
Starsky
That's what I was hoping for as well when you said it was good. I hated seeing her like that, team s in her eyes, even I wanted to cry, but I can't. Not now. I just want her to think long and hard, to at least start that process.
Tension came to visit when she made the unilateral decision to invite a third person into your marriage, without your consent.
Exactly!
And the in-love part? . . . I hope so.
I should have said "clearly still loves you." The IN-love thing is feelings-based, and obviously that's not where she is right now. But if she no longer loved you, I don't think she'd be this upset.
Well, way I see it, its she still loves me, or, I'm not "allowing" her to be with OM
And the in-love part? . . . I hope so.
I should have said "clearly still loves you." The IN-love thing is feelings-based, and obviously that's not where she is right now. But if she no longer loved you, I don't think she'd be this upset.
Well, way I see it, its she still loves me, or, I'm not "allowing" her to be with OM
That would be the icing. She asked me today. "And how do YOU know he doesn't care what's happening to our family? Hint lady; he's not helping when he's interacting with my wife behind my back.
That would be the icing. She asked me today. "And how do YOU know he doesn't care what's happening to our family? Hint lady; he's not helping when he's interacting with my wife behind my back.
Oh, and he's just " helping" her through this tough time.
I don't think she'd be this upset either. Oh, no problem, I'll file...and 7 months to 'plan' and then have nothing to go with? Fail to plan, plan to fail the Army taught me.
That would be the icing. She asked me today. "And how do YOU know he doesn't care what's happening to our family? Hint lady; he's not helping when he's interacting with my wife behind my back.
Oh, and he's just " helping" her through this tough time.
A lot of these OM have other ladies they bed. A Wife or GF is just an easy lay. They don't care, and they are glad they have a supportive husband or bf to send them home to.
An easy way to blow it up is to show that he undeniably has other women.
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
btw, this ^^^^ shows she's
SPINNING. This is GOOD.
I noticed the complete change immediately. It was like a complete slap back to reality. As soon as I made the decision to be the LEADER as opposed to DOORMAT, in that moment, she was devastated and in tears.
It's a swing of power, and if it's quick enough will cause her physical pain and spin her around. Thing about it if you don't do it to her she is doing it to you if you pay her any mind.
I commend you on your strength. You can be stronger.
That would be the icing. She asked me today. "And how do YOU know he doesn't care what's happening to our family? Hint lady; he's not helping when he's interacting with my wife behind my back.
Oh, and he's just " helping" her through this tough time.
A lot of these OM have other ladies they bed. A Wife or GF is just an easy lay. They don't care, and they are glad they have a supportive husband or bf to send them home to.
An easy way to blow it up is to show that he undeniably has other women.
He was a friend of mine. I was army, he was local bartender. He introduced us. Used to brag about sleeping with all the wait staff behind husband and boyfriends back. She knows this, but is 'in love'. I told her today, he IS no different,vthat he'sccheating now. She just defends him. So I say nothing. I'll be honest. I can't see him coming to our province to live with her and my kids. I seriously doubt it. And if he did? The bliss would last only so long I'd think...once my kids started rejecting him cuz daddy had to leave...or he cheated on her.
During her spew, she told me she thought I have a lawyer and was going to start the divorce process, and would be the one leaving the house. I calmly told her I had a lawyer, yes, so I knew my legal rights and obligations, but I had no intent on filing for or paying for a divorce that I never wanted. She freaked and says now SHE'S $%&#@+- stressed over 'what I'm doing' and that I'm hurting the kids by making her be the one to file and find a place to live, away from a house their comfortable in. (I guess dad is suppose to accept the A, find a place to rent, pack, move, find money to buy furniture, ect.) Then she tells me she's been planning to leave since June/July, followed by "I don't have a plan to deal with this...at least I confirm my own thoughts, she had no intent to leave, until she got caught. She even said, that yes, if I didn't find out, she'd still be pretending we're good until her plan was ready...like I said tho, there was no plan. Got caught, now freaking out.
btw, this ^^^^ shows she's
SPINNING. This is GOOD.
I noticed the complete change immediately. It was like a complete slap back to reality. As soon as I made the decision to be the LEADER as opposed to DOORMAT, in that moment, she was devastated and in tears.
It's a swing of power, and if it's quick enough will cause her physical pain and spin her around. Thing about it if you don't do it to her she is doing it to you if you pay her any mind.
I commend you on your strength. You can be stronger.
Your right. Now I continue to detatch, and avoid consenting to conversation. She knows where I stand. That's it.
She'll be at home now. Maybe on the phone, maybe not. But I would hope after the row this a.m., she's got a lot to think about...well, until they talk tonight. He may not be supportive if she tells him SHE has to file, and SHE will have to find a place to live.
She'll be at home now. Maybe on the phone, maybe not. But I would hope after the row this a.m., she's got a lot to think about...well, until they talk tonight. He may not be supportive if she tells him SHE has to file, and SHE will have to find a place to live.
And maybe she'll (in time) come to realize that his involvement in our lives wasn't such a great idea. For now she knows, unequivocally. She has to $hit, or get off the pot, and live with whatever decision she makes.
She'll be at home now. Maybe on the phone, maybe not. But I would hope after the row this a.m., she's got a lot to think about...well, until they talk tonight. He may not be supportive if she tells him SHE has to file, and SHE will have to find a place to live.
And maybe she'll (in time) come to realize that his involvement in our lives wasn't such a great idea. For now she knows, unequivocally. She has to $hit, or get off the pot, and live with whatever decision she makes.
MINDREADING.
He was a friend of mine. I was army, he was local bartender. He introduced us. Used to brag about sleeping with all the wait staff behind husband and boyfriends back. She knows this, but is 'in love'. I told her today, he IS no different,vthat he'sccheating now. She just defends him. So I say nothing. I'll be honest. I can't see him coming to our province to live with her and my kids. I seriously doubt it. And if he did? The bliss would last only so long I'd think...once my kids started rejecting him cuz daddy had to leave...or he cheated on her.
Right. Wife could blame you... That's cracked up she knows she is stacked up with other ladies and doesn't care and defends him. That's how it is.
They say in the fish realm that in some species the brighter and livelier fish is the most attractive. In the case of two equally bright and lively fish the female fish will be more attractive to the fish that is the most promiscuous.
[quote=Mac00
Your right. Now I continue to detatch, and avoid consenting to conversation. She knows where I stand. That's it. [/quote]
WAS are attracted to strength and power...
Be strong and powerful by building yourself up outside of her. Do what you have to do as a man. Whatever that may be. Do it for you.
She'll be at home now. Maybe on the phone, maybe not. But I would hope after the row this a.m., she's got a lot to think about...well, until they talk tonight. He may not be supportive if she tells him SHE has to file, and SHE will have to find a place to live.
And maybe she'll (in time) come to realize that his involvement in our lives wasn't such a great idea. For now she knows, unequivocally. She has to $hit, or get off the pot, and live with whatever decision she makes.
MINDREADING. Right. Instead of reading into it, we can worry about ourselves. Continue to strengthen and put the onus and focus and priority on ourselves.
The less attention we give a WAS the better. Not even a "nugglet" of attention...
She'll be at home now. Maybe on the phone, maybe not. But I would hope after the row this a.m., she's got a lot to think about...well, until they talk tonight. He may not be supportive if she tells him SHE has to file, and SHE will have to find a place to live.
And maybe she'll (in time) come to realize that his involvement in our lives wasn't such a great idea. For now she knows, unequivocally. She has to $hit, or get off the pot, and live with whatever decision she makes.
MINDREADING.Oh, no, I know she's at home with the kids. And they do talk every night since the dbomb. True tho, I donk 'know' what will be said, and sure, its wishful thinking, but hopefully someone will turn on a light.
She told me if I move out, she promises she will participate in "shared custody" Up here in Ontario, it basically means, each parent has the children an equal amount of time each month. She wants me to spend as much time with the kids as possible. (Interesting considering today I'm World's Biggest A$$hole).
Keeps you "on the hook". Plus it keeps you in her reach, so she will be able to communicate with you. She gets to do her side stuff with OM(s) often enough, and split it up so that it's cleanly done within the system.
I didn't see this earlier. 'On the Hook'. You know, I'll be honest. Yes, I neglected her emotions, I didn't even understand that until I started researching MW's Divorce Busters videos, ect. But, I have somewhere, the thought that if we two were actually living apart, and I wasn't around everyday, even just to 'see' or know what I was up to, she honestly would at some point " miss" me enough to send a msg about making a mistake. Not right away, not 'soon after' but, eventually. She knows no matter what, we're in each others lives, until we both die.
She knows deep inside that I love her every bit today, as the day I said my vows. She knows I'd never let anything hurt her or my kids.
The other thing (mentioned it earlier) was the match.com she signed up for a week ago. This is just supposition, I clearly don't know one way or the other. But, I checked the account. She created only a profile name, the actual profile was never completed, ergo, not visible to anyone, no incoming/outgoing, Nada. She mentioned the other note, she's not actively looking for someone, in fact asked me 'do you really think its a good time to look for a girlfriend?'. She has this EA going on, so, is "happy". But, she confirms a match.com profile she doesn't fill out. She told me today, she was in a different mood when she signed up. Could it be, she couldn't proceed, not because of the EA attachment, but because after the " confirmation" of the profile, there was a moment of clarity? Just a thought.
I understand I shouldn't believe everything I hear and only have of what I see. She's actually looking up apartments right now, and my god, jobs. Small ones, but jobs. She hasn't worked in a 'regular' job for 6yrs. Must be feeling the stress of going out on her own. She applied for the RCMP 7-10yrs ago, got thru the process, and decided not to continue as she (her words) didn't have the personality to be a cop. For 2 months, she's been talking about it again. I honestly hope she doesn't apply. It's extremely tough, physical/mental testing just to apply. She's very, well, "homebody" and I dont want her hurt if she doesn't make it. She decided to apply originally because I was applying and wanted to see if she could "beat" me in. It was a little friendly wager we had. So guys...question. She does this, she actually moves...how much does that dimish the possiblity that this could still work, or, on the other hand, does it possible INCREASE the chance it'll work, is that possible?
It's the same town, regardless of where, I'd say 10-15 min max driving distance.
