Hello,
I apologize but there is no way for this post to be short. I deployed in January of 2014 my W of 4 years begged me not to go. I actually had to choice to stay or go. I ended up talking her into being ok with me going. I thought this was best for us and my career. Things seemed to go as good as they could while there. I missed her terribly, in June she flew to Italy and we toured Venice and then Croatia. Things where perfect. In august she asked me if she could start doing acrobatics with a guy she worked with at the gym. I said baby go for it if it takes your mind off of me being gone.biggest mistake ever!!!! She started doing acrobatics daily. She became distsntand she started hanging with her friends allot. Around September one month before I was set to come home she called me crying sayin she missed me so much and she was tired of feeling so sad, lonely, and empty. She said she felt vulnerable. But at that moment I did not know what I could do about it. I asked her to be strong and know that I will be home in a month. I SaiD just continue to do things to take your mind off the time. Things seemed to get better. I returned home October 25th. My wife seemed like the same amazing loving wife At first but when I met her at the airport she hugged me a sobbed a little more than I expected, I felt like somthing was off but I didn't say anything. two days after I came home I was playing on her tablet and OM sends her a text saying he misses her and was hoping to hear from her. I instantly was like what is this and what is going on. She admitted that her and brian had been texting back and forth and it had crossed the line. She was just so lonely and it felt good to get attention. I instantly did the wrong thing. I made demands that she stop talking to this man all together and only see him at work and acro. She agreed to my face but the very next day emailed him about the incident and told him to just email from now on. Man this hurt. I could tell by the emails things were more than friends. And there is problem #2 for me i spied on her emails and texts. We went on a trip for Halloween that same day I was angry and hurt and I let it show. We had a major fight that night. In the morning we talked and she admitted to kissing him once and she felt horrible about it and they talked. And knew it could never happen again. We made up and went on my post deployment R&R trip for almost 3 weeks. Everything was amazing and seemed to get back to normal. She was her normal self. But as soon as we came back eveything changed. OM sent her an email saying he loved her and wanted her to leave me. This started the true downward spiral. We would fight often and I would get hurt and angry because she would do everything behind my back. She changed all her passwords and everything. She started seeing a psychologist and so did I with the intent of also going together. Her psychologist convinced her that he felt this man was just an emotional attachment because I preyed on her while she was extremely vulnerable. She decided to have no contact with him for an entire month and see how she felt. During this time she admitted to me to sleeping with him in september. She went through extreme depression the first few days, but she seemed be getting better. But she refused to avoid her part time job where he works as well. She claimed if she didn't talk to him it wouldn't matter. And no matter what myself or anyone said she wouldn't hear it. We made it less than two weeks. On the 15th of Jan. She bought him a birthday card. My birthday is the 18th his is the 16th. I did not receive a card and i found a receipt on the 19th while cleaning she lied at first then came clean. I decided I had to leave even though we were not done with the one month. We met two days later and had a nice talk. Although she blamed it on me saying i gave up on the month thing and that it was only a card. When asked if she felt anything everytime she saw him she said yes. So i said so we were doomed from the start because you knowingly continued to see him even if it's not talking. She got really angry at that. But She had broken her promise. So we decided that if we had not talked within two months we would meet and see were we are at. She Said she needed space to fix herself and find herself. Within 3 days she was back to talking and going to acrobatics with brian. I talked with her on the 23rd and she asked if we could at least keep the lines of communication open and be cordial. I asked her what her plans are and if she is planning on finding how things would Be with brian she said no I'm just trying to take care of myslef and try and find a way to be happy again. That night she stayed with brian and she has been with him ever since. I am at a lose on what to do. I just need help to see me through this. We were always inseparable and best friends. A few weeks ago she was crying harder then I have ever seen. And she said baby why didn't you listen to me about deployment. I needed you here and I wish you never would have gone. Then she said how can we ever get back what we had. Thank you in advance for your advice.
Hello,
I apologize but there is no way for this post to be short. I deployed in January of 2014 my W of 4 years begged me not to go. I actually had to choice to stay or go. I ended up talking her into being ok with me going. I thought this was best for us and my career. Things seemed to go as good as they could while there. I missed her terribly, in June she flew to Italy and we toured Venice and then Croatia. Things where perfect. In august she asked me if she could start doing acrobatics with a guy she worked with at the gym. I said baby go for it if it takes your mind off of me being gone.biggest mistake ever!!!! She started doing acrobatics daily. She became distsntand she started hanging with her friends allot. Around September one month before I was set to come home she called me crying sayin she missed me so much and she was tired of feeling so sad, lonely, and empty. She said she felt vulnerable. But at that moment I did not know what I could do about it. I asked her to be strong and know that I will be home in a month. I SaiD just continue to do things to take your mind off the time. Things seemed to get better. I returned home October 25th. My wife seemed like the same amazing loving wife At first but when I met her at the airport she hugged me a sobbed a little more than I expected, I felt like somthing was off but I didn't say anything. two days after I came home I was playing on her tablet and OM sends her a text saying he misses her and was hoping to hear from her. I instantly was like what is this and what is going on. She admitted that her and brian had been texting back and forth and it had crossed the line. She was just so lonely and it felt good to get attention. I instantly did the wrong thing. I made demands that she stop talking to this man all together and only see him at work and acro. She agreed to my face but the very next day emailed him about the incident and told him to just email from now on. Man this hurt. I could tell by the emails things were more than friends. And there is problem #2 for me i spied on her emails and texts. We went on a trip for Halloween that same day I was angry and hurt and I let it show. We had a major fight that night. In the morning we talked and she admitted to kissing him once and she felt horrible about it and they talked. And knew it could never happen again. We made up and went on my post deployment R&R trip for almost 3 weeks. Everything was amazing and seemed to get back to normal. She was her normal self. But as soon as we came back eveything changed. OM sent her an email saying he loved her and wanted her to leave me. This started the true downward spiral. We would fight often and I would get hurt and angry because she would do everything behind my back. She changed all her passwords and everything. She started seeing a psychologist and so did I with the intent of also going together. Her psychologist convinced her that he felt this man was just an emotional attachment because I preyed on her while she was extremely vulnerable. She decided to have no contact with him for an entire month and see how she felt. During this time she admitted to me to sleeping with him in september. She went through extreme depression the first few days, but she seemed be getting better. But she refused to avoid her part time job where he works as well. She claimed if she didn't talk to him it wouldn't matter. And no matter what myself or anyone said she wouldn't hear it. We made it less than two weeks. On the 15th of Jan. She bought him a birthday card. My birthday is the 18th his is the 16th. I did not receive a card and i found a receipt on the 19th while cleaning she lied at first then came clean. I decided I had to leave even though we were not done with the one month. We met two days later and had a nice talk. Although she blamed it on me saying i gave up on the month thing and that it was only a card. When asked if she felt anything everytime she saw him she said yes. So i said so we were doomed from the start because you knowingly continued to see him even if it's not talking. She got really angry at that. But She had broken her promise. So we decided that if we had not talked within two months we would meet and see were we are at. She Said she needed space to fix herself and find herself. Within 3 days she was back to talking and going to acrobatics with brian. I talked with her on the 23rd and she asked if we could at least keep the lines of communication open and be cordial. I asked her what her plans are and if she is planning on finding how things would Be with brian she said no I'm just trying to take care of myslef and try and find a way to be happy again. That night she stayed with brian and she has been with him ever since. I am at a lose on what to do. I just need help to see me through this. We were always inseparable and best friends. A few weeks ago she was crying harder then I have ever seen. And she said baby why didn't you listen to me about deployment. I needed you here and I wish you never would have gone. Then she said how can we ever get back what we had. Thank you in advance for your advice.
Sorry for your loss.
Welcome to the board
Get out and GAL.
DETACH.
Believe none of what she says and half of what she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
You are on moderation right now on the forum.
SO post in small frequent posts until you get off of it.
Your W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
broken,
I'm going to shoot real straight with you, right out of the gate, because I can tell - by the way you handled this right from the jump - that you're strong and a fighter. That's good. You're going to need those qualities - BIG time.
I instantly did the wrong thing. I made demands that she stop talking to this man all together and only see him at work and acro.Okay, careful what you see as being "wrong" and "right" right now. I like your INTENT in the "demand," but the delivery was all wrong. Understand there's a difference between being controlling and setting boundaries to protect YOURSELF. You SHOULD be convicted and decisive with your W right now. But instead of saying, "stop talking to him" - because you can't control that - you could say, "I will not live in an open M. And until you have ended all contact with OM, I will x, y and z. If you continue speaking to him, I will x, y and z." Does that make sense, broken?
You may feel right now, since it sounds like you two are S, that you won't need to create boundaries. But you probably will, so keep that in your back pocket.
And there is problem #2 for me i spied on her emails and texts.I don't see this as a problem. Your W was lying to your face. You were looking for confirmation/proof of an A. You found it. But NOW you can stop. There's nothing you can snoop for that's going to do you a bit of good. It will only hurt you from this point forward, as long as W is in an active A that you have exposed and addressed with her.
During this time she admitted to me to sleeping with him in september. I'm thankful you have this knowledge, because those of us who have been around here for a long time knew her A was physical by about, oh, your third sentence. She used all the standard "script." Dead giveaways.
She Said she needed space to fix herself and find herself.Script for a WAW.
she asked if we could at least keep the lines of communication open and be cordial.Script. This would make her feel better about herself and her actions. If you decide to be her "friend" even while she's disrespecting you to your face, it will soothe HER while YOU suffer.
I'm just trying to take care of myslef and try and find a way to be happy again.Again, script. Are you seeing it?
And she said baby why didn't you listen to me about deployment. I needed you here and I wish you never would have gone. Then she said how can we ever get back what we had.Script. And deflecting blame to make YOU feel at fault for her indiscretions. Don't buy it, broken. Not even for a second.
broken, you came out of the gate, swinging, as soon as you uncovered the A. And then it seems you lost steam when it appeared your W wasn't going to put an end to it right away. You slowly started losing your resolve and kept giving your W chance after chance after chance to change her mind.
I don't fault you for that. We've all been there. But especially for a man, if you start to act as though you're okay with an A - if you start acting like you are okay being strung along while your W cheats on you right in front of your face - she's going to lose respect for you ... and fast.
I read a lot of posts here, broken. But I don't often sense "strength and honor" coming off of men's posts when they first land here. That usually comes far later. There's something about your post that makes me realize you are head and shoulders above OM. (And not just because he's an a$shat that clearly doesn't have a moral compass because he's sleeping with another man's W.) It's going to be hard to watch your W carry on with OM. But a woman is attracted to a man who is confident and strong and decisive. I think you have those qualities. The trick is to not become a doormat, thinking it will draw your W back. A doormat isn't attractive.
Right now, your job is to GAL so you can start feeling better about YOU. Be upbeat and positive when you know you may see W. Always look your best so that you FEEL your best. Work out. Hang with the guys. Do fun, adventurous things. Act as if you are moving on with your life, regardless of what your W chooses to do with HER life. (Have you read sandi's rules here on the boards? They're gold.)
Acting upbeat and confident when you're the lowest you've likely ever felt is hard work, broken. But it's the ticket out of this hel1 you're in.
Starsky hangs out here a lot and gives the best advice for men. (I'm, for the record, not a man. Lol.) Anyway, Starsky hasn't been around for a bit because of a death in his family. But when he comes back, he'll have all kinds of amazing advice for you, including how to financially protect yourself while your W may be spending family money to carry on an A. (Which is NOT okay.) By the way, are you paying her bills - like her cell phone bill - while she's wayward? What's your financial arrangements with W?
A lot of what you'll be advised to do here feels completely counter-intuitive. It seems it'll push your W further away. As Starsky once told me, sometimes you have to take an immediate hit in the "nice" department for the greater good.
You just HAVE to trust the process, broken.
Keep posting here. You are likely on moderation, which means you will hit "submit" on your posts, but it'll take some time for them to post. That means you'll have to wait a while to correspond with people here in "real-time." The more you post, though, the quicker you'll come off of moderation. So keep talking to us, okay?
Also, the next time you post, you may want to consider adding paragraph breaks. That just makes it easier on the readers' eyes ... and more people will read your posts that way.
Train,
Thank you for all the advice. Today was a good day. I have not talked to W in 3 day's. But I have been working a shift that requires me to see her once a day. No talking nothing just her driving by. The past two days I was really depressed sad and angry. But after seeing with my own eyes my W staying with OM a massive weight has left my shoulders.
Just like you said I realized that I already knew in my heart she was staying with him. I resolved to stop all worrying and just do me. So today I woke up happy and energetic for the first time in forever. The past two days she would drive right by me and I would sulk. But today I was happy smiling and laughing. She instantly changed lanes and would not drive by me.
Oh and she was wearing the jacket I bought her for christmas. Our only communication is a dry erase board on the fridge of the house. I said if you need something write it there. I said other than that go find yourself, get clarity and become happy. And I am going to live my life. Was that the wrong thing to say?
I forgot to mention that I have filed a investigation against the other military man. For adultery and un-becoming of a non-commissioned officer. So she is not happy about that! Was this a bad move. Soon the no contact order will be in force.
I have been contacted by a few members of the acrobatiks group and they all figured out on their own what is happening. They think that I make a great base for smaller women to do Arial stunts..
My question is,do you think it's too soon, and would this mess things up if wife finds out or see's me.
broken,
Seems like you are on the right track, detaching. I don't think you are wrong for the investigation. I'm prior service, Army, and adultery is unbecoming of a NCO in my opinion. Hopefully, it'll result in OM shedding some of that rank into the E1 - E4 pay. That'll make him less the OM for your W. What branch of service are you in? Are you and OM in the same company, battalion, brigade, etc.? I'm assuming you're a gate guard since you have to see your wife come to work. Hopefully, you'll get a shift that doesn't merry up with when she has to come through. I'm no vet on these boards, but detaching is one thing, but I can only imagine what its like to possibly see wife with OM constantly. Stay strong.
I said if you need something write it there. I said other than that go find yourself, get clarity and become happy. And I am going to live my life. Was that the wrong thing to say?
When you said, "Go find yourself ... become happy," is that what you really meant? Because as a woman with one foot out the door, I read that as: Okay, he's giving me permission to go find myself and find happiness, which he hasn't given me. Awesome! My H just gave me PERMISSION to go sleep with OM! Yay!
Is that the message you were trying to give her? If not, then yes, you sent the wrong message.
Listen, broken, there's a fine line between being tha man and being THE man. There's a huge difference between being cocky and confident.
As a woman, and when I put myself in your W's shoes and read the words, "I am going to live my life," I honestly scoff. Actually, I LOL. Because if you were going to "live your life," you would have never taken time to write that to me. You would have just done it.
Your WORDS don't mean a thing. Your *actions* DO. Make sense?
I forgot to mention that I have filed a investigation against the other military man. For adultery and un-becoming of a non-commissioned officer. So she is not happy about that! Was this a bad move.
To me (and one or two others here)? Nope. Not a "bad" move, per se. We did it, too. Did it bring our spouses back to us immediately? No. Again, sometimes you take a hit in the "nice" department for the greater good. (Exposure of an A to employers, for the record, is absolutely NOT in line with DB/MWD's philosophy. There are other techniques that encourage it, but DB doesn't.) Starsky can speak to this once he's (hopefully) back soon, because God knows I can't replace his wisdom right now ... even though I'm trying a little in his absence. Lol (sigh). It was a risky move. Possibly a "fruitless" move, actually, at least in the short-term, for your M. It was maybe even a move that will push your W further away for a bit. But if you're going to fight for your M - and be CONSISTENT in the fight (and by that, I mean TRULY consistent, using the same tough-love approach with little-to-no wavering) - I wouldn't call it a "bad" move. My H, once he returned to our M, thanked me for fighting so hard for our M when I made moves like the one you made. Starsky's W, from what I read and he has said, said the same thing to him when she returned to their M.
I have been contacted by a few members of the acrobatiks group and they all figured out on their own what is happening. They think that I make a great base for smaller women to do Arial stunts..
My question is,do you think it's too soon, and would this mess things up if wife finds out or see's me.
If I understand this correctly, you're asking if you should join the same group your W and OM are involved in? If that's the case, my advice would be a big, fat NO! Do NOT do that.
Are you trying to win your W back? Or push her further away?
What's your goal here, broken?
I sense a lot of ego and testosterone. And I LIKE that we're working with that. But pull it in and don't let it get the best of you. Make it work FOR you. Not AGAINST you.
Capeesh?
Ok, deep breath... I am struggling detaching and still staying invested. As far as the go find clarity, at that time it was on the premise she was staying with a friend and she just needed time and space to decompress. not him, I did not want to give the impression of "go do what you want including him." So my question would be how to correct this. As far as the acrobatics thing they only want to work with me on Mondays. Days that W and OM are not there. If this really is a bad idea I will stop. I want to do what is best to get my marriage back.
I have begun to make my GAL in hopes that it will keep me occupied and excited for the future. I am going out this weekend to buy new outfits and that cologne she loves. I am hurt, resentful and angry but I still immensely love my wife and I know that this happened in a moment of weakness. But now she is acting without any regard for anyone's feelings but her own. I will continue the tough love approach. Thank you very much.
He is a E-6 airforce. And I am in the Army. I am on gate guard only this week then it's back to my real job. thank you for the encouragement.
Another question I have is should I split our financial accounts to show independence or just continue with our things joined. I want to show that I am capable of moving on but I don't want her to think I gave up and we are completely finished. Thank you in advance.
I forgot to mention that I have filed a investigation against the other military man. For adultery and un-becoming of a non-commissioned officer. So she is not happy about that! Was this a bad move. Soon the no contact order will be in force.
I think this is a good move, and I did the same thing pretty much. My wife's OM was in the police academy, studying to become a police officer. I found out that as part of the "public review" process, I could write a letter and have it put in his file and considered as part of his overall fitness, and "moral turpitude" was one of the disqualifying criteria. Unfortunately, they still named him to the police force, but I felt better that I had done the right thing.
Starsky
Good morning,
To recap what happened lastnight. I got home and she had left me a massage on the fridge saying she needed time to pack for her school trip this coming week. I said that Wednesday is the only day good for me, because I will be out a little late so she could have her time. Because at this moment she and I are not on seeing terms, guidance from her psychologist. i did not leave any room for debate, I was not rude but I just didn't leave it open ended; was this ok.
The post I made about acrobatics was cleared and posted too late. I accepted the invite on the premise she would not be there. But what I didn't know was one of them informed her that I was going to be there just trying to get out of the house. I didn't see anything wrong with this approach because the person I was with is very neutral party and very nice. W and OM did not show up. Let me know how you all feel about that decision. If advised against I will drop instantly. saving my marriage is #1.
How would I go about expressing to my W my expectations and my displeasure with her being with OM while she is supposed to be finding herself. Or should I just let it be and let my actions show her I am able to move on without her.
Whew. Happy to see you, Starsky.
I replied to those posts and I'll await your responses
I am struggling detaching and still staying investedYeah. In the thick of things, the two don't seem to go together, do they? I understand. But it helps to understand that detaching doesn't mean giving up. It's simply a way for you to maintain your sanity while your W is running around, acting INsane because she's being led on a wild goose chase by out-of-control brain-chemicals. Detaching isn't saying, "I don't care." It's saying, "I care *too much* to allow your current behavior to deter me from working on myself and trying to salvage our M." If you continue to have expectations of your W during this time (i.e. if you can't find ways to detach from her words and/or actions), you will be disappointed and - worse - discouraged. And angry. And sappy-sad. We want you to stay so busy GAL - which leads to detachment - that you don't have time to feel any of those negative emotions right now. Your W's behavior is going to send you spinning if you don't detach - and THAT is where people screw up and take major steps back in the process.
So, see? Detaching has little-to-nothing to do with your W, actually. It's for YOU and your peace of mind so that you can be the best broken possible. You will need as much peace of mind as you can get.
I did not want to give the impression of "go do what you want including him." So my question would be how to correct this.This wasn't a "make it or break it" moment, so don't sweat it. You could have written about elephants in a three-ring circus, and she would have found a way to make it say what she *wanted* it to say. In other words, she was going to do what she wanted to do, with or without your permission. Your words didn't make her go. They just gave her some "justification" to use against you, if that makes sense. (But again, she would have found justification in *any*thing because she was LOOKING for it.)
Don't worry about "correcting" anything. This wasn't a big deal; you just asked if it was the wrong message, and I replied to that question. Don't sweat the small sh!t. And don't go trying to correct yourself if/when you step in a pothole. A wise friend once told me: "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging."
As far as the acrobatics thing they only want to work with me on Mondays. Days that W and OM are not there. If this really is a bad idea I will stop. I want to do what is best to get my marriage back.Is this something you've picked up just since W and OM hooked up there? Because if so, I would encourage you to leave it behind ... and quickly. Why? Because it looks like you're trying to compete with OM, by doing something he does. He's NOTHING. A symptom of your marital problems and not the problem itself. He's scum on the bottom of your shoe. So seems to me that he (and anything he does) would be the last person on the face of the Earth you'd want to be (or "emulate.") Also, W is going to feel stalked if you just joined this after knowing OM was involved in it ... even if you're going on different days.
Drop any pressure you're putting on your W. She will respond to pressure by running away, at best, and lashing out. The less pressure she feels from you, the better.
I know that this happened in a moment of weakness.I wouldn't bet on it.
I will continue the tough love approach.This is very wise.
should I split our financial accounts to show independence or just continue with our things joined. I want to show that I am capable of moving on but I don't want her to think I gave up and we are completely finished.
I will defer to Starsky for a final word on this, because this is one of his specialties.
Fwiw, I would split the accounts asap so that you aren't helping fund her A. Forgive me if you've mentioned it and it is slipping my mind right now, but does she have a job?
If you do decide to split the accounts and if W balks, I would put my hand up and say: "W, this is not what I wanted, but I will NOT live in an open M, and I will NOT help fund your A." And then walk away.
She does have a rather well paying job. That is why I have kept account joined so far cause she usually makes plenty for herself and more. Most of mine goes to bills lol. Almost all of mine as a matter of fact.
How would I go about expressing to my W my expectations and my displeasure with her being with OM while she is supposed to be finding herself. Or should I just let it be and let my actions show her I am able to move on without her.No words. Only actions.
She has fired you as her H. She knows you're not happy about that. There's nothing you can say to make her change her mind right now.
I'm glad you're buying some new clothes. Looking your best will help you feel your best. Saw where you said you're buying a cologne your W loves. Re-consider: Think about buying a NEW cologne. You want to be "mysterious." You want to leave her with a "question mark" or two in her mind. Why would you buy a cologne SHE loves when you're out, creating a NEW life? If you KNOW she loves a certain cologne and you start wearing it again all of a sudden, she's going to know you're after HER ... or, at the very least, *thinking* of HER. Nothing wrong - in fact there's *everything* RIGHT - with making your W wonder why you switched colognes all a sudden. You want to leave her guessing about what you're doing. You are moving on with your life, remember? This is a new chapter. Out with the old (cologne); in with the NEW!
Confident, assured, decisive while being upbeat and "neighborly" to W.
I got home and she had left me a massage on the fridge saying she needed time to pack for her school trip this coming week. I said that Wednesday is the only day good for me, because I will be out a little late so she could have her time ... i did not leave any room for debate, I was not rude but I just didn't leave it open ended; was this ok.Yes. I think you handled that perfectly. The reference to "being out a little late" - and leaving it at that - was brilliant. Any chance you could be home when she first gets there? In your new clothes - and new cologne - looking like a million dollars - upbeat - excited about your "plans" - smiling a lot - and in a hurry to get to a mysterious place where you will be "out a little late"? (I don't care if it's just to the gas station or a friend's house while W is at the house. But don't return until you know she's long gone! You want to leave HER guessing about where you're going ... and even who you're getting all dressed up for.)
Also, what's the arrangement with the house? You said she is staying with OM while she says she's "finding herself" (pfft). But she obviously has her things at the house because she has to stop by there tomorrow to pack for a school trip. You said she left a note for you on the fridge last night. Is she coming and going as she pleases even though she's spending the nights in OM's bed?
That wouldn't sit well with me. First, you shouldn't feel you have to leave the house you're paying for when she needs to stop by. A level of discomfort is a natural consequence of her actions. YOU don't need to create an upheaval in your own life and schedule to accommodate her "comfort" anymore. (But I wouldn't want you sitting at home when she stops by, either, since you're out GAL with mysterious people at mysterious places ... and enjoying your new life.)
I dunno. When my H left, I packed all his sh!t and put it on the front porch. And I immediately changed the locks. I don't know if you are ready to go to that extreme, or even if it's the smartest move. (It was the smartest move for ME at the time, but it might not be in every case, obviously.)
If your W just "dropping by" ends up being a problem, let's be sure to revisit this. I mean, let's think about this: if YOU had left ... and W was living in the house, carrying on her shenanigans with OM ... she wouldn't want YOU just dropping in on a whim. You might bust up on her "private time"! Why shouldn't you demand the same courtesy? She at least should be asking you if she can stop by on a certain day, at a certain time. You said she asked about Wednesday. But the note-on-the-fridge last night is throwing me off. Can you clarify how you two are working all that?
She does have a rather well paying job. That is why I have kept account joined so far cause she usually makes plenty for herself and more. Most of mine goes to bills lol. Almost all of mine as a matter of fact.
Okay, so is she still putting all of her money in the joint account? Which of you actually sits down to pay the bills each month? If it's W, do you know all the information to be able to access the account?
If your income has been paying most of the bills and she, therefore, has the "extra" money, it wouldn't surprise me if SHE ends up splitting the accounts. (She obviously isn't going to want you having access to what she's spending "her" money on.)
Again, I just don't feel qualified or experienced enough to advise you on this. So take this for what it's worth. Seems to me that if you're paying all the bills and you split the accounts, or she yanks her money from the joint account, you are left with all the bills and little extra income while she's going to end up with an abundance of money - and no bills - while she's having an A.
If you guys are living apart, seems to me you guys should be splitting the bills, proportional to your pay??? But I could be thinking about this from the perspective of a PARENT and not a spouse with no kids ...
All I know is you need to protect yourself financially and be sure that if W pulls her money, you will be okay.
Starsky!!!! (Lol.)
Train, Thank you so much for the good advice I never thought of it like that. I have just the cologne I'm gonna wear. Your right out with the old in with the new. I have to say this whole ordeal has done wonders in the body department. I came back thick benching 380 lbs and weighing 220 now I'm 193 and trim, I'm in cloths I have not been in since we first met. Super excited about that. I will do my best to be home that day or " " leaving for my out late night. Great idea.
We have a set time every day she is allowed to come over. We have two dogs and they adore her. So from 5-6 she is allowed there but she does come and go while I am at work. Never pops in when I am home. Should I change that up? I did take our pictures off the walls and moved into my man cave instead of our bedroom still.
She has kept her money in a shared account with me. I can complete access of all accounts and credit cards. So far things seem the norm. I will post about my day today in a few thank you so much.
Today was a super tough day. some stupid glitch with our phone accounts started sending her texts to my phone. OM was all emo telling her he was to spend forever traveling and doing acrobatics with her. And other sexual things, and I could stop them from coming in. Right when I thought it was over and things were calming down I got the news my half siblings dad passed today. So super tough day.
I sent W an email about it and she said she wished she could go with me to visit them. (That really hurt to read) she then said just give her the dates and she will book my flight. I said that is ok I will book it myself just let me know what credit card you want me to use since your traveling for school as well. I asked her if she was still following through withvour previous plans to hit Vegas and Seattle after her required school time. She said Vegas no but yes to seattle. I said I hope you have a blast and eat tons of chowder and crab salad for me. And that I was thinking about using our timeshare and hitting Vegas on the way back from the family. she was responding to emails until this last correspondence.
Do,you think I crossed the line.
Also a little background on W and I, we met in Seattle. And we go every year to visit and reKindle that feeling we get when we are there together. Why would she be going alone. Then I realized the Seattle trip is from Friday to monday. And he is probably going to meet her there. not sure if it's good or bad. We have so so many memories there. Is she really going to try and replace them?
At a total loss for that one.
Thank you
Yes, I do think you crossed over into "PURSUING" territory there. Stand down, soldier!
A great piece of advice once given to me: Don't seek comfort from the very person who's causing you the most pain right now.
Thanks, didn't even intend to. This stuff is tough when your just getting going.
Just gotta keep My eye on the end result. I want my best friend and love of my life back! I need to move back to alpha zone and dig in for the long haul.
Just gotta keep My eye on the end result. I want my best friend and love of my life back! I need to move back to alpha zone and dig in for the long haul.
If best friend was a male, and he conspired with another male and had you robbed. You were robbed of some hard work and dignity that you had along the way.
How easy would it be to regain trust? This is what is going on here. Friends can make mistakes, but they will not keep making mistakes that are detrimental to you.
Communication..... when it comes to email, texts or calls should I always defer to letting her make the effort. I might have slipped up yesterday on that note. She came through the gate and smiled and waved at me I nodded back
Afterwards I sent a really short email that said the color yellow always looked good on you and it was nice to see you smile, have a great day. She responded with it was really good to see you smile as well and thank you for the compliment. What do you think... too far!
A general rule of thumb is that any communication initiated by you right now is seen as pursuing.
Think about this: Does W know that YOU know she's staying with OM, broken? If so, think about things from her perspective: H knows I'm sleeping with OM, and he's STILL showering me with compliments! I have TWO men interested in me, and both are begging for my attention. This is toooooo easy! I love the attention! I think I'll just keep doing things the same way for a while ...
Now, if you see her in person and notice she looks nice - especially if you, yourself, are feeling confident about how YOU'RE looking - I, personally, don't see anything wrong with a passing, "Dang, W. Still lookin' good in yellow!" And just keep walking, without expecting a response.
The fact that she can see you walking away after saying it, upbeat and carrying on about your business, makes a compliment like that preferable to be said in person than in text.
You definitely don't want to come across as desperate or trying to "lay it on thick" while she's in an active A.
Just my .02.
Ok thank you for clarification, I will refrain from contact unless she initiates or it is very important. Luckily I'm a strong man and I love my W unconditionally becuase this stuff is so so so hard to handle and achieve without going too hot or cold.
I believe she knows I know I have not come out and said it to her. Do you think I should at least a dress that elephant in the room! Or let it play out. She told me she was at a friends while getting herself right. I.E. OM. Thank you for everything.
Today has left me feeling vulnerable and sad. Gonna try and pick myself up.
A general rule of thumb is that any communication initiated by you right now is seen as pursuing.
Think about this: Does W know that YOU know she's staying with OM, broken? If so, think about things from her perspective: H knows I'm sleeping with OM, and he's STILL showering me with compliments! I have TWO men interested in me, and both are begging for my attention. This is toooooo easy! I love the attention! I think I'll just keep doing things the same way for a while ...
Now, if you see her in person and notice she looks nice - especially if you, yourself, are feeling confident about how YOU'RE looking - I, personally, don't see anything wrong with a passing, "Dang, W. Still lookin' good in yellow!" And just keep walking, without expecting a response.
The fact that she can see you walking away after saying it, upbeat and carrying on about your business, makes a compliment like that preferable to be said in person than in text.
You definitely don't want to come across as desperate or trying to "lay it on thick" while she's in an active A.
Just my .02.
Make that .04.
Starsky
I believe she knows I know I have not come out and said it to her. Do you think I should at least a dress that elephant in the room! Or let it play out. She told me she was at a friends while getting herself right. I.E. OM. Thank you for everything.
Today has left me feeling vulnerable and sad. Gonna try and pick myself up.
YES, I think it is imperative that you confront her with a "I know all about you and ______, and I will not live in an open marriage" boundary if you have not already done so. Be sure to do it upon ROCK-SOLID evidence, or a rock-solid 100% sure she's lying to you at that moment, moment.
You can say something like "Look, I don't want a divorce, but make no mistake -- I will NOT live in an open marriage, and I will NOT wait forever. Looks like we both have some decisions to make."
Imperative.
Starsky
how do I go about discussing this topic if she has already moved out of the house also do I need to do it in person or can I email to avoid any other conference confrontation
In person. You can't demonstrate "strength, honor and resolve" thru an email.
should I just get straight to the point and talk about nothing else tell her how I feel what I expect and leave it at that or do you suggest a different alternative
How long has she known that you know, and that you've failed to say anything to her about it?
It needs to come up IN CONTEXT (like immediately when she next lies to you about OM, for instance) . . . otherwise it will only seem like a tactic to get her back.
Be sure to do it upon ROCK-SOLID evidence, or a rock-solid 100% sure she's lying to you at that moment, moment.Yep. broken, don't think you need to break your neck to throw that boundary out there RIGHT NOW. I mean, yes, I agree, it's imperative that you state to your W that you will not live in an open M. If I were you, I would commit to memory exactly the "sample statement" that Starsky gave you. Practice it if you have to. You don't want your voice to shake when you say it.
This isn't as hard as it may seem. You decide what your non-negotiable, core beliefs and values are. Sounds to me like living in an open M goes against your non-negotiable values. So, essentially, you place boundaries around YOU and your heart to protect YOURSELF from living in an open M and from compromising your non-negotiable, core beliefs and values. Does that make sense?
Be strong and firm and resolved when it comes to that. You're not being *mean*. You're being *resolved*. That side needs to come out any time W, as Starsky said, is outright lying to you. But you don't have to bring it up, out of the blue, TODAY. There's a certain urgency about putting your boundary out there. But don't bring up a R talk just to tell her that you won't live in an open M. I am a firm believer that your moment will come to NATURALLY put that out there, and you will know when it does.
Then, go right back to being neighborly and upbeat. You're not trying to control your W. You're trying to protect yourself and also be the best version of yourself. In time, that could re-attract your W. If it doesn't - and I know you don't want to think about this right now - you'll eventually re-attract someone who will treat you better. And, whichever is to be, you'll have a whole new "emotional toolbox" and skill-set to work with to make your relationships much better.
And THAT is how it works.
How long has she known that you know, and that you've failed to say anything to her about it?
Good question.
I don't think she knows about her being there now. I mean the initial sleeping with him EA yes. But now she is supposed to be at a friends place fixing herself. But I know she has been with him off and on. Splitting nights. Don't think she is aware I know.
Ok thank you so much. I actually wrote it down verbatim. If and when we talk I will express myself. And then leave it at that. And if she still continues do you suggest I file for D?
Okay. Just know that once she KNOWS that you know (the moment she lies to you, and you put down your boundary), you gotta put on your game-face for the long-haul.
Is your evidence that she's currently spending time with him ROCK-SOLID?
Don't think she is aware I know.
If you're SURE of this, then there's no hurry. Just wait for the next time she lies to your face about the OM and the affair. However, if a cheating spouse -- particularly a wife -- knows that her husband knows, and he doesn't be unequivocal in his boundary, I personally believe that deep damage is done.
Women tie their feelings of love for a man very closely to their feelings of RESPECT, and if he loses that, she will quickly lose attraction and love for him.
Filing for D? That's a biggie. Let's cross that bridge if/when you get there. I'd think you have a way to go before you add THAT worry onto your already-full plate.
I generally would say: Don't file for D unless you're ready and willing to deal with the natural consequences of that. But if you are sure of your non-negotiable, core beliefs and values - and your W continues to live in an A and stomp all over your stated boundaries about living in an open M - then the next obvious step is to file for D.
Starsky went that route. I filed for legal S. (In NC, we have to wait 12 months after being legally S to file for D.)
I don't want to jump the gun on that quite yet, though. Sometimes, it DOES take some pressure off the WAS ... and sometimes it really seems to be the kick-in-the-pants they need. But I'd never file to get a reaction out of my WAS. I'd only file if/when I was willing and ready to be D.
However, if a cheating spouse -- particularly a wife -- knows that her husband knows, and he doesn't be unequivocal in his boundary, I personally believe that deep damage is done.
Women tie their feelings of love for a man very closely to their feelings of RESPECT, and if he loses that, she will quickly lose attraction and love for him.Bingo. This woman agrees completely.
That is the tough part of all this. Fighting all this way just possibly put in the D papers so soon. Thanks for everything
Rock solid, pictures at 2am of my car at his place a few days ago
Rock solid, pictures at 2am of my car at his place a few days ago
Does he know you know about him? Call the car in stolen, and then notice that the car is over there.
Ok thank you guys, this such a bad situation and to still love and want my W is painful. Especially knowing I have a very long road Ahead.
So this morning I saw her coming through the gate and she didn't look happy at all, actually really pissed. I know I have done or said anything to her besides that little flirt email yesterday. And then I get a cordial email this morning about me going to see my family for the funeral and how she still wants to book it for me cause she uses paypal.
I accepted this and thanked her for the help during this rough time. She then responded with thanking me for setting aside time today for her to come back to the house and pack. Baby steps and at least communication happened.
I just wonder if I should talk with her while she is there about the open thing M thing. Maybe ask a few ice breakers and if she lies state those feeling and boundaries. I know I am leave for about a week and so is she. Would it be good timing to make her think. Or just let her go on trip and when we are back address it the next time she lies to me.
Ok thank you guys, this such a bad situation and to still love and want my W is painful. Especially knowing I have a very long road Ahead.
So this morning I saw her coming through the gate and she didn't look happy at all, actually really pissed. I know I have done or said anything to her besides that little flirt email yesterday. And then I get a cordial email this morning about me going to see my family for the funeral and how she still wants to book it for me cause she uses paypal.
I accepted this and thanked her for the help during this rough time. She then responded with thanking me for setting aside time today for her to come back to the house and pack. Baby steps and at least communication happened.
I just wonder if I should talk with her while she is there about the open thing M thing. Maybe ask a few ice breakers and if she lies state those feeling and boundaries. I know I am leave for about a week and so is she. Would it be good timing to make her think. Or just let her go on trip and when we are back address it the next time she lies to me.
Go on a vacation and don't talk to her for a week. During this time it's great for her to lose her emotional support from you and depend upon the OM for it. Also it is best that she pay her own bills or let the OM do it.
Not talking to her will be good for your emotional state as you focus on the things you need to be doing.
Baby steps and at least communication happened.
A word of caution: Careful what you consider "improvements" - or "baby steps" - when your W is having an A. (I had a problem with this, too, when my H was wayward.) A lot of times, a WAW who is in an A will be nice to "temp check" you - to see if she still has you on a string. This leads to "cake-eating." That is NOT an improvement. In fact, it's a big step back. You want your W to RESPECT you, not PLAY you. If you're acting all happy and pleased with the crumbs she's throwing you to keep you hooked, she will lose respect for you very quickly. And that is the ONE thing you cannot afford for your W to lose if your goal is to save your M.
I just wonder if I should talk with her while she is there about the open thing M thing.
You are going to try to split this hair a million ways, and you'll convince yourself that your situation is unique. How do I know? Because your situation is not all that unique. And pretty much everybody here, when they first arrive, tries to reason that their situation is different and requires a "different" strategy. You'll still get the same response from us, and it's right out of the DB book: NO R TALKS! Do not instigate this talk. Do not get yourself trapped in one if W instigates one. Your ONLY job is all that's already been detailed. If W, while she's at the house, says something like: "Well, I've been staying with (insert friend's name) to 'find myself,'" you look her dead in the face, lock eyes, put your hand up and say, "W, no. You and I BOTH know you're lying to me right now. I know all about you and OM. What you're doing is disrespectful to me and to our marriage." And WALK AWAY. Do NOT get suckered into any further R talk.
This is also important: Do not tell her what you know. Do not tell her HOW you know. That information is for you and you alone.
Be mindful that until your W lies to your face - on her own accord, without you trying to prompt it - your job is to look nice, smell nice, have mysterious places to be with mysterious people to meet. Be positive and upbeat and NEIGHBORLY-friendly to W. But don't get into chit-chat with her. Don't stand around and offer to help her. Don't look like a lost puppy-dog or a wet noodle. Be MOVING, at all times.
If SHE mentions where she's been staying - or something of that nature - THEN pull out "strength-and-honor" broken ... who, to W, is not gonna look so "broken" all a sudden.
Trust the process.
Ahhhh ok I was not understanding. Now I see. Bring it up only and only if she brings something up and lies about it. I will follow that plan. I need to get the book and read it. Guess I need to change my amazon p/w so she will not know what I am reading. Thanks for everything. Any time she sends me a email I am polite but short sweet and to the point. Nothing emo or personal. Just validation, appreciation for an action and being polite and too the point.
I will trust the process and follow through.
(Oh, and in that statement you make up there, when W lies to you, that's when you'd also tell her that you will NOT live in an open M.)
Right on thanks so much for the advice. I fly out Friday if she offers to take me should accept or find my own ride.
Correction she just said let me know if you need a ride....! I'm thinking get my own ride. Keep her guessing. Any thoughts T.
Good instincts.
You got this.
I would get your own ride - and respond breezily "thanks, but I have a ride.."
I did exactly that thank you
So today came a major change in my life in the near future. I received Orders to move to Oklahoma and work. I pondered not letting her know that i got them but my report date is august 10. I sent her the orders so that she is aware that on this date i will be leaving. i have not said with or without her. i just said. I received my orders here are a copy i just wanted you to know. Did i do the wrong thing? or should i ask her to talk so we can discuss them. any input would be greatly appreciated. ASAP this is a tough one
My second question is do i leave this place without filing for D if it comes to that. i have heard how hard it is to actually complete once you are in different states. im at a total loss on this one. as of yet she has not even mention divorce, she actually said she doesnt want to leave me she just needs to figure out what is going on inside herself. I.E. be with OM. this has really stressed me out right now, but i also see this as a guiding light. if things are not headed in the right direction maybe a change like this is needed i do not know. Not only am i broken at this moment but i am lost as well. thank you
These are questions for a good attorney, Broken. Sorry, above my pay grade!
that is what i was thinking. I come back in two weeks and i think i will talk to one. this is truly a sad day for me that i knew would one day come. and i honestly dont see my W coming with me. She loves Hawaii too much and has allot going out here including OM. a sad day indeed
LOTS of cards still left to play, Broken. Lots.
Time to change your username. You need something that doesn't imply "defeat" so much. "Bent Not Broken" ?
Starsky
LOTS of cards still left to play, Broken. Lots.
Time to change your username. You need something that doesn't imply "defeat" so much. "Bent Not Broken" ?Indeed. Indeed.
All of that.
Do you realize how freakin' AMAZING your life is going to be by August?!?
Stick around, brother. We're just gettin' started!
Hello everyone, so today was the scheduled time for my W to come by and see the dogs and pack for her school trip. I was outside putting things in the bike to leave. I see her pull around the corner and she stops because she sees me. I see her, and she backs up and leaves. We have not been separated but a week. It did not end on bad terms and this A was not about me neglecting her or her neglecting me for an extended period of time.
I was gone 10 months she found friend OM and that turn into I might love friend OM. So why is she treating me like I did something totally wrong. I sent her a text that said "wow I did not know you were that angry with me." instantly realized that was a mistake and followed it up with "next time do not show up early please." not sure I recovered but it was something.
I am hurt and angered by her reaction to not even look at or see me. What is that all about. I left in such a hurry I left my ID. Had to go back and get it. While I waited for her to answer the door. I saw her get up off the couch and wipe her eyes. I did not even go inside my own house. I said I left my Id she asked where I told her she got it. I said thanks and left. Did I just take a giant step back?
update.... lastnight after I left around 5pm I ended up doing acrobatics at the park with a friend. Had a good time, and didn't let much bother me about W or OM
I headed home around 830 I had said to the W I would be out most of the night, so she couLd pack for her trip. when I went to turn on to my street she was still there So I kept driving. She stayed until 9 and then left. It's just Strange she never misses Wednesday late night acro with her OM and I mean never. I silently chuckled thinking she was trying to wait around to see when I came home to get one last knife in me and reel me back in a bit.
But I was not going to let that happen. I sat up on a hill enjoying the stars until I saw her leave. I know I did the right thing. And it felt good to be a little aloof.
Hello everyone, so today was the scheduled time for my W to come by and see the dogs and pack for her school trip. I was outside putting things in the bike to leave. I see her pull around the corner and she stops because she sees me. I see her, and she backs up and leaves. We have not been separated but a week. It did not end on bad terms and this A was not about me neglecting her or her neglecting me for an extended period of time.
I was gone 10 months she found friend OM and that turn into I might love friend OM. So why is she treating me like I did something totally wrong. I sent her a text that said "wow I did not know you were that angry with me." instantly realized that was a mistake and followed it up with "next time do not show up early please." not sure I recovered but it was something.
I am hurt and angered by her reaction to not even look at or see me. What is that all about. I left in such a hurry I left my ID. Had to go back and get it. While I waited for her to answer the door. I saw her get up off the couch and wipe her eyes. I did not even go inside my own house. I said I left my Id she asked where I told her she got it. I said thanks and left. Did I just take a giant step back?
Hey bro. A lot of times when they cheat on you they will hate you so they don't hate themselves. It's normally not intentional, but the human mind does it as a way to protect itself. She will validate her choices and in by doing so invalidate you.
That's why you can't really talk to them and shouldn't try to appease them.
You can let them go on and discover they made a bad decision or not.
I tell you, we had one guy on this board who was being cheated over a period of time and he got tired of being alone, so he got a girlfriend.
The WAS was livid, at how could he do something so despicable. It was a huge double standard. But it got her to see how "dirty" the thing she was doing was, and it wasn't as exciting or interesting once her LBS was doing the same thing.
They are now talking, relationship not fully mended, but it got her mind to open up...
I spot a name change.
I agree with this:
Hey bro. A lot of times when they cheat on you they will hate you so they don't hate themselves. It's normally not intentional, but the human mind does it as a way to protect itself. She will validate her choices and in by doing so invalidate you.
That's why you can't really talk to them and shouldn't try to appease them.
You can let them go on and discover they made a bad decision or not.
I just wrote about this on twinmom's thread; I'll pull it over from there for you:
And, fwiw, H and I had a discussion about this just last weekend. He said essentially this (all, btw, which we here already know, but it's good to hear it from the mouth of a XWAS, especially one who doesn't read the literature enough to know what it all says about how a WAS operates; in other words, these are H's own thoughts, uninfluenced by any literature on this subject):
Waywards in As are typically not "in love" with their A partners. At least not at first. They're in love with how the A partner makes them feel about THEMSELVES. Eventually, once the AP has stroked their ego for so long, the LBS looks worse and worse. Anger and resentment build and grow. Still, the WAS knows what s/he is doing is wrong. So they say mean, unfair - and outright UNTRUTHFUL - things to and about their LBS in an effort to ... here's the money shot ... make THEMSELVES look better for doing what they're doing.
An observation I hope you'll take to heart, dwnnoto: Read back through your two most recent posts. In one, you detailed seeing W. And it sent you spiraling. In the second, you saw she was still at home, and you decided to go off and wait until she left. And you felt good and even, I would imagine, a little powerful. You were in control of YOU. That feels good.
Do you see how easy that is?
Remember that feeling of being in control of yourself. And what it took to feel that way. Rinse and repeat.
Oh, and I would encourage you not to shy away from entering your own home while W is there. It's your home. You aren't the one who left.
I spot a name change.
I agree with this:
Hey bro. A lot of times when they cheat on you they will hate you so they don't hate themselves. It's normally not intentional, but the human mind does it as a way to protect itself. She will validate her choices and in by doing so invalidate you.
That's why you can't really talk to them and shouldn't try to appease them.
You can let them go on and discover they made a bad decision or not.
I just wrote about this on twinmom's thread; I'll pull it over from there for you:
And, fwiw, H and I had a discussion about this just last weekend. He said essentially this (all, btw, which we here already know, but it's good to hear it from the mouth of a XWAS, especially one who doesn't read the literature enough to know what it all says about how a WAS operates; in other words, these are H's own thoughts, uninfluenced by any literature on this subject):
Waywards in As are typically not "in love" with their A partners. At least not at first. They're in love with how the A partner makes them feel about THEMSELVES. Eventually, once the AP has stroked their ego for so long, the LBS looks worse and worse. Anger and resentment build and grow. Still, the WAS knows what s/he is doing is wrong. So they say mean, unfair - and outright UNTRUTHFUL - things to and about their LBS in an effort to ... here's the money shot ... make THEMSELVES look better for doing what they're doing.
An observation I hope you'll take to heart, dwnnoto: Read back through your two most recent posts. In one, you detailed seeing W. And it sent you spiraling. In the second, you saw she was still at home, and you decided to go off and wait until she left. And you felt good and even, I would imagine, a little powerful. You were in control of YOU. That feels good.
Do you see how easy that is?
Remember that feeling of being in control of yourself. And what it took to feel that way. Rinse and repeat.
Oh, and I would encourage you not to shy away from entering your own home while W is there. It's your home. You aren't the one who left.
Control yourself powerfully during this phase so she cannot even make her self look better so she gets a real good taste of reality.
Dress good, look clean, find somethings you've been interested in doing.
Like I said, I found that partnered dancing, for me it's Salsa and Merengue allowed me to feel a great deal of my masculinity without having to physically consummate with someone. It's good for your soul.
Thank you so much I am actually trying to change it to RRysinMn because I have been so far down only placecto go is rise.
This morning I got an email from W about the assignment email I sent to her. She said "don't you think this is something we should discuss." how do I approach this? I do think we need to since we areally still married but what input should she have, she has chosen OM over me. Or should I say this is what it is. And your either with me or we both move on. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
Hi,
I am sorry for the situation you are in. I like the name change! The question regarding speaking with her about the assignment is a big one!
The best advice I can give you is to speak with a Divorce Busting Coach today. Divorce Busting coaches will give you the best guidance on how to save your marriage and get things moving in a more positive direction. There is much that can be done. Please call me to discuss our coaching program 303-444-7004.
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Resource Coordinator
The Divorce Busting Center
303-444-7004
thank you and i will give a call. i appreciate everything!
W just sent me an email saying she tried to call me to talk about the moving to another duty station. I said this is not something that i am willing to talk about over the phone. and if you want to talk we can meet someplace neutral after work. Was that a good move.
how do you react. If W asks for divorce do I avoid the convo. Or do I acknowledge her feelings and counter offer? Anything to help would be appreciated
I believe it was starsky who gave me this line "I do not want a divorce but I won't stand in your way"
W showed up and gave me no warning. Said she felt betrayed for what I did to OM in reporting him. I was like I am not sorry about my actions. She said you just took the choice away from me and I don't know if I can forgive that betrayal. Hmm what to do now.
Nothing! Continue on as usual. You didn't force OM to do what he did, she is just mad things aren't all roses.
Oh and funny that SHE feels "betrayed" ummmmmmmmmmmmmm HELLO!
Continue on with your day and do something nice for yourself.
Stay true to you, and expect her spew.
She knows you still love her and want her home. She will use that knowledge to try to manipulate your actions and decisions. She wants to make you feel guilty so you stay out of her way. She also wants justification for continuing her A. It makes it easier for her to be angry with you.
Remember, though, she will continue her A - no matter what - until SHE decides to end it. And she will find justification in ANYTHING she wants. Elephants in a three-ring circus, even.
Stay strong.
Ok I will, I am leaving for a week today so will be a great break. I need me time without having her around. She did try pushing to divorce her, she told me to man up and divorce her. I Said, I am not filing becuase I still see hope. I said if you want the divorce you file I will not stand in your way. She had nothing to say. So I told her look in august I'm going to Oklahoma with or without you. The choice is yours so it seems we both have alot to think about and decide. And I left her with I know i have done things to push you farther away but there are things I am glad I did and pressing charges on OM is one of them. That's when I got thE I bet you are happy speach. And then the betrayal comment.
W showed up and gave me no warning. Said she felt betrayed for what I did to OM in reporting him. I was like I am not sorry about my actions. She said you just took the choice away from me and I don't know if I can forgive that betrayal. Hmm what to do now.
A good response to use here is "Everything I'm doing, I'm doing to trying to save our marriage." (or " . . . trying to save our marriage and our family," where children are involved). "I understand that you won't always agree, and I'm okay with that."
Starsky
Yep. Expect her to lash-out like a toddler who just had a lollipop pulled out of her mouth. Poor baby. It really blows when you learn that you can't have your cake and eat it, too.
You've just shifted things. And she's not going to be happy about it. This is the part where you "take a hit in the nice department." My H lashed out at me, too, after I left flowers and a card for him and OW at a hotel I knew they would be staying at one night. I left there and took a folder full of evidence to OW's H and told him about the A. And then I called OW's boss, because the A had started, and was being carried out, primarily on company time.
H pulled out all the stops to try to get me to D him and leave OW alone. He even PROMISED he would "start being nice" to me - lucky ME, right?!?
- if I would just leave OW alone. I mean, wow! Way to pull on my heartstrings, right?! Pfft.
Anyway ...
It's important to understand how imperative it is for you to stick to a tough-love stance once you have decided on it. She will be watching you like a hawk and likely waiting for (and even pushing for) ONE sign of weakness. And if you fall for it, it could cause quite a bit of damage in the respect department. Remember: Strength and honor. You're not doing this to hurt your W. You're doing it because you respect your M and your commitment to her. And you're the only one fighting for that right now. No matter what, I PROMISE you that a woman respects a man who is strong and confident and decisive (please notice I didn't say: "an as$"). She finds those qualities ATTRACTIVE.
You sound really good; that's a great way to kick-off a week-long break. I think it's really good timing and will do you both a lot of good.
I agree train, this break is amazing timing. Now other service member "OM" has a no contact order from her. The best part about it all for me is he is showing his true colors, although she doesn't see it yet. This man continues to go to gym and acro and told her she cannot go because of the no contact order. I was stunned. And of course she blames me forcit. Although this dude is choosing himself over her she can't see yet. But it will come to light one day. I just have to be strong. Hold to my convictions and stand my ground. You guys/gals can't forget you train, have been amazing.
But for now I'm going home to my family and support, for a not good reason but just to be with them will be great.
Safe travels, bro. (Sorry for your loss.)
Thank you very much, enjoying a good beer before u leave
Only one?
Oh no no no no. More like 7. But a beer sounds better. Gotta say I'ma sleep like a baby. Can't wait to land and get home to family. It's been too long.
I agree train, this break is amazing timing. Now other service member "OM" has a no contact order from her. The best part about it all for me is he is showing his true colors, although she doesn't see it yet. This man continues to go to gym and acro and told her she cannot go because of the no contact order. I was stunned. And of course she blames me forcit. Although this dude is choosing himself over her she can't see yet. But it will come to light one day. I just have to be strong. Hold to my convictions and stand my ground. You guys/gals can't forget you train, have been amazing.
It will take a while for her to get these lessons so I wouldn't wait around for it. But I'm glad you understand the process and how the world works.
Many WAS are very hard headed and will go back after it even harder next time, they cannot simply have been wrong...
Enjoy your family.
Thank you, I will still struggling with this being alone thing. Have not been alone in 8 years this is a bit tough. I did hold down the urge to email the W. A small Victory but a victory none the less.
That's no "small" victory this soon in.
You're doing great.
thank you Train,
I just have to stay strong. I am really running through a ton of emotions, at one moment i want to divorce her and give her what she wants because i know she will soon see who and what the OM really is. then there is that fighter in me that wants to hold onto what i love and fight for her and be strong until she sees her errors. so many emotions coming and going its tough to digest and focus. lol... anyone have any ideas to cope besides GAL. cause at this moment i cannot GAL!
I am really running through a ton of emotions, at one moment i want to divorce her and give her what she wants because i know she will soon see who and what the OM really is. then there is that fighter in me that wants to hold onto what i love and fight for her and be strong until she sees her errors.There.
Look, buddy, step back for a minute and see if you follow me: You are doing exactly
all of the above (minus the D part; that's why it's struck now
),
right this very minute!! You are going to tell her that you know about the ongoing A. You are backing out and letting OM meet all her needs. Those things could very possibly lead to the A ending sooner than it otherwise would have.
I wrote about this on someone else's thread recently, I think. There's this really cool thing that happens when you expose the A to your WAS and then back wayyyyy out to let OM meet your W's needs. First, the A loses its main appeal: Risk and secrecy. And then the two people in the A start to see each other for the people they really are, warts and all. They start feeling the weight of stress instead of the bliss of forbidden ecstasy. They start seeing how the other person deals with real-live stress. And keep in mind that cheaters are fundamentally selfish people, and relationships between two selfish people - for obvious reasons - usually don't work out.
In other words, once the veil of secrecy is lifted off the A, the APs start having real-life problems ... the same kind of problems that your M had. If you are completely backed out, W isn't focusing on YOUR "warts." She's focusing on OM's. (Now, if you start acting silly and staying up in W's face, then you put the focus back on YOU, which just prolongs the time it will take her to notice OM's warts.
And with all her focus on OM - who's a fundamentally selfish person who obviously cares more about himself than your W - your W *might* start to realize that maybe you (and your M) weren't so bad, after all.
So let's circle back to this:
I am really running through a ton of emotions, at one moment i want to divorce her and give her what she wants because i know she will soon see who and what the OM really is. then there is that fighter in me that wants to hold onto what i love and fight for her and be strong until she sees her errors.Do you see, now, how you're doing BOTH at the same time? You are fighting for her BY backing out and giving her what she thinks she wants. Two purposes, one action: Couldn't be more simple.
anyone have any ideas to cope besides GAL. cause at this moment i cannot GAL!Yes, you can. I know you don't feel like it, but it will be your saving grace. I promise. FORCE yourself to go do something fun or daring or adventurous. It can be alone or with friends. Fill up your calendar. This will give your mind a MUCH-needed distraction from your circumstances. It will make you feel better, and it will make you more optimistic. That, in turn, will help you be more genuinely optimistic around W. It is also KEY to helping you detach from your W's actions right now. And if you can't detach, you're going to end up spinning ... and W is going to notice ... and then you will effectively turn W's attention back on YOUR warts.
No bueno.
Keep going, buddy. You can do this.
I am really running through a ton of emotions, at one moment i want to divorce her and give her what she wants because i know she will soon see who and what the OM really is. then there is that fighter in me that wants to hold onto what i love and fight for her and be strong until she sees her errors.There.
Look, buddy, step back for a minute and see if you follow me: You are doing exactly
all of the above (minus the D part; that's why it's struck now
),
right this very minute!! You are going to tell her that you know about the ongoing A. You are backing out and letting OM meet all her needs. Those things could very possibly lead to the A ending sooner than it otherwise would have.
I wrote about this on someone else's thread recently, I think. There's this really cool thing that happens when you expose the A to your WAS and then back wayyyyy out to let OM meet your W's needs. First, the A loses its main appeal: Risk and secrecy. And then the two people in the A start to see each other for the people they really are, warts and all. They start feeling the weight of stress instead of the bliss of forbidden ecstasy. They start seeing how the other person deals with real-live stress. And keep in mind that cheaters are fundamentally selfish people, and relationships between two selfish people - for obvious reasons - usually don't work out.
In other words, once the veil of secrecy is lifted off the A, the APs start having real-life problems ... the same kind of problems that your M had. If you are completely backed out, W isn't focusing on YOUR "warts." She's focusing on OM's. (Now, if you start acting silly and staying up in W's face, then you put the focus back on YOU, which just prolongs the time it will take her to notice OM's warts.
And with all her focus on OM - who's a fundamentally selfish person who obviously cares more about himself than your W - your W *might* start to realize that maybe you (and your M) weren't so bad, after all.
So let's circle back to this:
I am really running through a ton of emotions, at one moment i want to divorce her and give her what she wants because i know she will soon see who and what the OM really is. then there is that fighter in me that wants to hold onto what i love and fight for her and be strong until she sees her errors.Do you see, now, how you're doing BOTH at the same time? You are fighting for her BY backing out and giving her what she thinks she wants. Two purposes, one action: Couldn't be more simple.
anyone have any ideas to cope besides GAL. cause at this moment i cannot GAL!Yes, you can. I know you don't feel like it, but it will be your saving grace. I promise. FORCE yourself to go do something fun or daring or adventurous. It can be alone or with friends. Fill up your calendar. This will give your mind a MUCH-needed distraction from your circumstances. It will make you feel better, and it will make you more optimistic. That, in turn, will help you be more genuinely optimistic around W. It is also KEY to helping you detach from your W's actions right now. And if you can't detach, you're going to end up spinning ... and W is going to notice ... and then you will effectively turn W's attention back on YOUR warts.
No bueno.
Keep going, buddy. You can do this.
And THAT, folks, is how it's DONE.
When my wife and I are interceding with a couple coping with infidelity in our church there are times the wayward spouse will indicate that my wife told her x,y and z and such was NEVER indicated by my wife. We try to remember to forewarn the betrayed spouse that they can double check with us if their wayward spouse indicates we advised or told her to do something and it doesn't seem consistent with the overall plan. It's not always because they are flat out lying....though that is typically why it happens as they use whatever they can to manipulate the situation while they are still covered in sin, however sometimes they just hear what they want to hear.
Also, informing the military of OM's behavior is precisely what needed to be done. Adultery is still illegal in the military so all you've done is report a crime. It's your duty to report the crimes of fellow servicemen. OM is jeopardizing his unit and the honor of his command. This is bigger than just you and your wife. No matter what they they SHOULD, at the very least, order "No Contact".
Ok I agree, thank you. I see that you are right. She needs to see things in,her ownctime. And as long as I prolong this it will drag on. From today forward I am stepping back. Thank you train
Good morning everyone,
Today I am sitting at my brothers house watching Dora Dora with my amazing and beautiful niece. But I might as well be a million miles away. I woke up missing W more than anything. And I feel that hurt and anger and feeling of lose and defeat start to creep up in me. I try and tell myself W is not herself right now and she is just as lost as I am actually probably more, but I still can't pull myself out. Last night a friend told me W and OM were out with a group even though there is a no contact order on him. I finally had to say "hey just have to let her figure herself out and step back" but its so hard when everything I have done for the past 8 years I had my W/best friend with me. And it doesn't help my entire family loves her and continually asks about her. I am struggling this morning and i hope I can climb out of this funk.
Good Morning RysinMn,
I have been following your thread and I am sorry you have to deal with your sitch. When I was where you are, I experienced the same onslaught of emotions. Here are some of the actions I took to ease my mind: If we have common friends, I asked them to not bring M or W. I stopped following her on social media. I kept conversations with W brief. These simple actions, over time, helped sooth the idea I no longer have a W.
Having that mindset, GAL was easier. Getting to a confident version of yourself requires you to want to be that person and I found that there is no faster way to being that guy than wanting to be attractive to someone new. I am not condoning having an A of your own, but there is something to be said to having that feeling again when you want to be in the chase again. GAL and having that mindset will make all the tools you will learn here easier to execute. Let the A your W is having play out. In the meantime, I will suggest you use this time to grow, get to know your self and figure out what you want for you.
We all love our Ws or we would not be here. However, if the M is going to end, we need make sure to become the person she will regret to had let slip away.
It will be a hard road. It will take time. You will have setbacks. Most importantly, have an outlet.
Good Luck.
Yeah, I remember well the occasional "sightings" of H and OW that my friends would tell me about. I've often wondered what in the world they think that they are "helping" by running straight to a wounded spouse to tell them that they saw their spouse with their affair partner. I HAVE to believe the friends are well-meaning, because some of my dearest friends were the guiltiest of all; I just can't figure out WHAT they mean by it. Or why they would even think it's a good idea.
As much as your curiosity is going to make you wonder what your W is up to, each time you see it with your own eyes (snooping) or hear it from others, it's going to set you back to Square One when it comes to detaching.
This is one case when ignorance truly is bliss ... and curiosity really does kill the cat.
Take mental notes about what you were doing when you felt better at certain moments ... and then what's causing you to "sink and spin." Keep a journal, if you need to. Over time, you'll be able to link what you're doing that helps you feel more in control ... and what's happening when you feel OUT of control. And that can help you to really stay focused on doing the things that are WORKING for you.
Tell your friends, as soon as you think they're about to say something about W, that you'd rather not hear it. There are many ways to say this. Find one that feels authentic to you. But take steps to tell your friends that it only hurts you to hear about W's shenanigans with OM.
And, Rysin, I'm just going to put it out there again: Force yourself to GAL. It will help. VOLUMES.
Big hugs today; I know the "low" days are so, so tough to get through.
Thank you all for the support, I think the biggest contributor is Facebook. Even though I have blocked my W all my photos are of us. I am struggling on a daily basis with not looking at the pictures. I do not want to delete my account because it's my only contact most days being in the military. I am trying my best to GAL, the first week was actually not bad, but it seems like it's getting harder as time goes by. I hope at the month mark I will find it easier. Each day. I have started learning the guitar. Again thank you everyone. You are all a life saver! I felt the spin begin but your have helped pull the Ebrake. Now I gotta breathe and survive.
Hi RysinMn
you can temporarily deactivate your account without deleting it
Deactivating a facebook account Obviously be careful and check if its what you want to do but I did this at the begining of my sitch when I needed down time and not to see what w was doing while i got myself together.
I am thinking I'm gonna leave it up
Just gotta be strong. I can do this.
I am thinking I'm gonna leave it up
Just gotta be strong. I can do this.
I wouldn't be "reading" FaceBook ( FB ) right now. However if you are going to be doing your GAL program in an expeditious fashion, you can post a bunch of pics showing you happy and doing fun things.