Saving my marriage by focusing on ME (Part 2)

Saving my marriage by focusing on ME

^^^^^^^^^^
Last thread

Mr. bond you are correct and for this thread I will try my hardest to forget about OM...

I guess where I obsess is that last week even when OM first got to town WW kissed me goodnight every night and kissed me goodbye every morning.

This week since Sunday not one kiss at all. She went from cheek to lips to nothing...
It could because she's exhausted but you have to admit it's hard for a guy to figure this out.

You're getting there. Keep plugging along..
Don't worry, it's hard for most everyone to get their mind off of a situation like your situation. You will get there.

Find something you are passionate about that puts a hop in your step.
Learn to laugh. Laughter is a great medicine...

Call and set up another appointment with your Coach, Chuck.
He is an expert and TRAINED in these things. The rest of us are just rank amateurs compared to the experts.

Get your advice from the experts. It will be money well spent. That's why Michelle is kind enough to have this site for us. Don't mistake the advice on here for Professional advice from an expert.

Chuck will set you up with a plan specifically for your situation and help to get you on track and keep you on track.

Make sure you keep reading DB and DR to go along with Chuck's advice.

Good luck....

That's why FB recommends no mind reading and having no expectations. And ... You're still focusing on her .... and what kinds of kisses you're getting..... And on her .......

Originally Posted By: unbidden

That's why FB recommends no mind reading and having no expectations. And ... You're still focusing on her .... and what kinds of kisses you're getting..... And on her .......

Good point.

What I have done for myself is really focused on my control issues.
I know I slip up sometimes but I have gotten a lot better.

My anger is pretty much gone. I don't find myself getting angry anymore.

I have to focus a little but more energy in self control around S16.
He had an appointment last night and I was having a hard time getting him moving.

When I got upset with him he commented that it was because I was loosing my wife.
Then he tells his mother dad is nuts.

I know he is getting upset with her but to make it about her is bad for me.

We were passing a carnival in town when she it all up about how cool it was.
My S16 says " oh wow it's so cool I can go there with my boyfriend"

Everything in the car got eerily silent after that.

Is your son in counseling? Ox, I have to be honest, I feel for you but there is a lot of dysfunction in your household. Your son needs to be supported, and right now you and your W have trouble doing that because you seem very focused on yourselves and your own drama.

He may have just said that to see how you would react/get some attention. Or maybe that is his way of opening up to you. And if he's gay? So what? How would the NEW, IMPROVED, NOT-CONTROLLING Ox respond?

Think on that one a lot. Do some reading. Your son needs you. This is a wonderful opportunity to take a step forward and step up like a mature, responsible, caring dad.

Originally Posted By: claire7

Is your son in counseling? Ox, I have to be honest, I feel for you but there is a lot of dysfunction in your household. Your son needs to be supported, and right now you and your W have trouble doing that because you seem very focused on yourselves and your own drama.

He may have just said that to see how you would react/get some attention. Or maybe that is his way of opening up to you. And if he's gay? So what? How would the NEW, IMPROVED, NOT-CONTROLLING Ox respond?

Think on that one a lot. Do some reading. Your son needs you. This is a wonderful opportunity to take a step forward and step up like a mature, responsible, caring dad.

NO NO NO NO....YOU ARE OVER THINKING WHAT HE SAID.
HE'S NOT TALKING ABOUT HIMSELF...HE WAS MOCKING HIS MOTHER, SHE WAS DRIVING THE CAR HE WAS SITTING NEXT TO HER ( oh I'm not yelling I'm laughing)

The thing is my son has had lots of counseling. He had a lot of anxiety issues starting at 9 years old. He is pretty much cured. Likely going to an IVY league or Tier -1 university.

His issues were the straw that broke the camels back in our marriage. My WW could not handle all the stress anymore, this OM promised to take her away from it all..

As an aside if either of my sons were gay it would have no effect on my relationship with them.

Originally Posted By: unbidden

That's why FB recommends no mind reading and having no expectations. And ... You're still focusing on her .... and what kinds of kisses you're getting..... And on her .......

I guess it's just that I am trying to see where I stand...

Your right I need to focus on OX!

Originally Posted By: JCred

You're getting there. Keep plugging along..
Don't worry, it's hard for most everyone to get their mind off of a situation like your situation. You will get there.

Find something you are passionate about that puts a hop in your step.
Learn to laugh. Laughter is a great medicine...

Call and set up another appointment with your Coach, Chuck.
He is an expert and TRAINED in these things. The rest of us are just rank amateurs compared to the experts.

Get your advice from the experts. It will be money well spent. That's why Michelle is kind enough to have this site for us. Don't mistake the advice on here for Professional advice from an expert.

Chuck will set you up with a plan specifically for your situation and help to get you on track and keep you on track.

Make sure you keep reading DB and DR to go along with Chuck's advice.

Good luck....

Thanks for reminding me. I need to call and set up another appointment.
I am seeing my MC tonight. What's great about her is she seems to be on the same page with MWD and DB.

She also has done a lot to help me fix myself.

What I realize I sometimes do is post my thoughts, opinions and feelings, but these are not actually what is taking place in real life .

The great thing is I get the feedback on the forum and I am even better behaved the next time ( because I have blocked the thoughts).

Thanks

Would this be considered Mind Reading or Focusing to much on WW:

WW was wearing our wedding band, first weekend OM was her no band.

I noticed last week it was back on.

Today I noticed it was home.

I assume she forgot to take it off and he saw it and gave her hell.

Would it be prudent to not ask why shes not wearing it?

Would it be Ok to ask once hes left and shes at home?

I think you already know the answer to all of this, Ox. C'mon.

I will say that I am not pursuing, I am not "initiating" any conversation.

One thing I have learned is that I am pretty good at all the DB principles except the one about thinking to much about what she's up to.

But this always has been my nemesis it's hard to break that habit really hard.

That's why we're here to smack ya around when you forget.

And forget the rings.

My W makes a point of wearing hers when she leaves our house, then immediately takes them off in her car, then puts them back on when she comes home.

It's all meaningless at best, or an attempt to jerk your chain at worst.

When she's back, you'll know it. You won't have to guess by whether or not she's wearing a ring.

Originally Posted By: zew

And forget the rings.

My W makes a point of wearing hers when she leaves our house, then immediately takes them off in her car, then puts them back on when she comes home.

It's all meaningless at best, or an attempt to jerk your chain at worst.

When she's back, you'll know it. You won't have to guess by whether or not she's wearing a ring.

BINGO.

Originally Posted By: Starsky309

I think you already know the answer to all of this, Ox. C'mon.

Yup!

SHUT UP!!!!!
DON'T ASK!!!

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Originally Posted By: Starsky309

I think you already know the answer to all of this, Ox. C'mon.

Yup!

SHUT UP!!!!!
DON'T ASK!!!

Yea what happened to buying that duct tape?

So here's a new one . Someone put an ad on Craigslist and used my work cell phone number.

The add starts out about personal goods for sale etc. Then gets into some pretty raunchy stuff, stuff my WW would not even know about.

It also uses a modified version of my wife's name and claims she's making me sell all our stuff from my man cave.

It lists the address as a town the OM was hoping she would have rented an apartment in if we were S or Ding.

I find this all very interesting especially since the advertisement was placed about 5:30 last night when she was on her way home from work.

It could all be a coincidence or could it..Dunn duh. Dunn

Had an interesting conversation with the MC about control.

She said that the word controlling is extremely over-used in marital situations.
Even in a good marriage it can be over used.

Also pointed out that a lot of men don't realize they are being controlling.
a perfect example is when your wife won't tell you certain things because she is afraid you will get angry...that's not control.

But when your wife won't DO certain things because she's afraid of how you'll react to that, that is control. ( she does not mean with OM or even girlfriends)

Controlling is telling your wife that

I won't stay here all day in the motel while you sleep, and ruin my expensive over seas holiday.

It was no holiday, it was a trip to burry my nan and that gem was the day after! Supportive not, or threatening if I could not open my mouth and get my chit together he would force us in a plane to go home.

It's both controlling and punishing from the ic perspective. When I told her that story she pointed it out.

It depends on why and how you say things. If its all your way, then it's control. If your wife has a choice and you can go with her choice then that's not so much.

If I've explained that well enough.

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

Controlling is telling your wife that

I won't stay here all day in the motel while you sleep, and ruin my expensive over seas holiday.

It was no holiday, it was a trip to burry my nan and that gem was the day after! Supportive not, or threatening if I could not open my mouth and get my chit together he would force us in a plane to go home.

It's both controlling and punishing from the ic perspective. When I told her that story she pointed it out.

It depends on why and how you say things. If its all your way, then it's control. If your wife has a choice and you can go with her choice then that's not so much.

If I've explained that well enough.

You have explained it well.

My plan the next week is to be on my best behavior.

I am avoiding starting any and all conversation with WAW.

The biggest thing I have to avoid is shifting the focus to me. I realized that sometimes the WAW has a thought about what is happening, I comment on it and the focus ends up now being on me instead of on what she's doing or what the OM has her doing.

I guess I was trying to illustrate in a story, if you expect total compliance with out question on your choices, then you are trying to control.

I wouldn't comment on her om or turn the spot light onto you, if you turn the bright lights on you she can focus on your faults. Just be a friend. Let her lead and talk on anything other than those 3^^^^ up there.

Weather, ice cream, kids, work shopping etc.

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

I guess I was trying to illustrate in a story, if you expect total compliance with out question on your choices, then you are trying to control.

I wouldn't comment on her om or turn the spot light onto you, if you turn the bright lights on you she can focus on your faults. Just be a friend. Let her lead and talk on anything other than those 3^^^^ up there.

Weather, ice cream, kids, work shopping etc.

That exactly what I am doing. She got home around midnight last night. I was sleeping. This morning she went to our basement gym to work out I was up but faked sleeping ( really not to bother her etc..). Then when I got back from the gym she and S16 were gone to work.

What worries me is that she took clothes to go out during the day. This tells me she's cutting out of work AGAIN...I can't afford her to get fired.

The other thing is , I know she changes into street clothes in her office, but she changes back to work clothes when she comes home....where does she do this?

I know she has already made an appointment for a lie detector test at the MC office after OM leaves for his country.

She changes her clothes because her knickers get in knots?

Or they become Russian up her bottom!

Think crazy, he's nuts, she's nuts they're both nuts.

You cant control her job, but you can get ox another job. Or a second job or a third job.

Think what is my plan a if she is gone or fired?
Plan b?

The emergency life raft should all those go to custard?
Step one is get the little ducks all lined up, so ox is ok.

Steps to take with children should she leave the country? Ask all the questions is get on the front foot.

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

She changes her clothes because her knickers get in knots?

Or they become Russian up her bottom!

your right. It's just that she never ever cut out of work for me. Could never stay up past 10 always wanted to be home by 12AM. I know I am still to focused on her. But Ox has for to get more of a life. It's like I am the only responsible adult at this time.
Think crazy, he's nuts, she's nuts they're both nuts.
you are so correct even the MC says there is something so dysfunctional about this A
You cant control her job, but you can get ox another job. Or a second job or a third job.

Think what is my plan a if she is gone or fired?
Plan b?

The emergency life raft should all those go to custard?
Step one is get the little ducks all lined up, so ox is ok.

Steps to take with children should she leave the country? Ask all the questions is get on the front foot.

I doubt she's leaving at least not until S16 graduates high school.

If she decides to go to his country right now then she's absolutely nuts. If she tells me she's going again I am filing for divorce and getting a restraining order. My s21 says he's done with her at that point and S16 is goin to become an emancipated minor .

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

even the MC says there is something so dysfunctional about this A . . .

On so many levels.

I start out the day in a great mood then end up
On an emotional roller coaster!

"I know she has already made an appointment for a lie detector test at the MC office after OM leaves for his country."

I don't get it. Your W asked for a lie detector test? For who? You? Her?

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"I know she has already made an appointment for a lie detector test at the MC office after OM leaves for his country."

I don't get it. Your W asked for a lie detector test? For who? You? Her?

It's actually both . For some reason she wants to prove to me they never got physical and that she never went near his hotel.

She wants me to prove I had nothing to do with her Cheaterville posting!

She's going to attempt to prove to you what "is" is, Ox, by pretending that a DEEPLY-entrenched EA -- even one that her husband knows about, is anguished about, her own SON knows about, but yet she refuses to give it up -- is somehow morally okay so long as it's not a PA.

Starsky

Originally Posted By: Starsky309

She's going to attempt to prove to you what "is" is, Ox, by pretending that a DEEPLY-entrenched EA -- even one that her husband knows about, is anguished about, her own SON knows about, but yet she refuses to give it up -- is somehow morally okay so long as it's not a PA.

Starsky

You are so correct that my head hurts!

So I have not spoken to WW since before work Tuesday Morning.
I got a text on Tuesday afternoon asking how I was and telling me she was going to dinner.
I texted back that if she's exhausted when she gets back please call me and I will pick her up at her office and drive her home...
No response

This morning I only saw her as I woke up but she did not see me.
I recieved a Text at 12:30 :

" at lunch with S16, I am going to go food shopping tonight "
( I am thinking this is her way of telling me she will b home by 5 or so)

I texted back "do you want company, I will be home between 4:30 and 5 PM?

She texted back about two hours later
"Whatever u want to do is fine with me..."

Not sure what that means or what I should do?

I responded "K". But still not sure what I should do?

Ox...

I feel for you, I really do. But I have to be honest that I am flabbergasted at how little of this sinks in for you.

Unless you are baiting us and playing a game?

I know very experienced, busy people will take time out of their busy lives to berate you.

Can you try answering your own questions? What have you learned here in all the months you've been here?

What did you do wrong? What should you have done instead? How would you interpret her responses to you? You can't be that thick-headed...can you?

I'm sorry, I know that is harsh, but it's frustrating to see everyone go around and around in circles with you.

Originally Posted By: claire7

Ox...

I feel for you, I really do. But I have to be honest that I am flabbergasted at how little of this sinks in for you.

Unless you are baiting us and playing a game?

I know very experienced, busy people will take time out of their busy lives to berate you.

Can you try answering your own questions? What have you learned here in all the months you've been here?

What did you do wrong? What should you have done instead? How would you interpret her responses to you? You can't be that thick-headed...can you?

I'm sorry, I know that is harsh, but it's frustrating to see everyone go around and around in circles with you.

Claire:

I am fully in control of my control and anger issues. My MC says I am 180 degress from where I was. I am really at a loss here with this.

I really needed answers not to be berated.

I feel like my chance for R is 50/50, I just have to wait for her to tire of OM.

Can you just answer my questions?

Leave her alone. That is the answer, be gone from her life and don't concern yourself with what she is doing or try to do friendly things with her. MOVE ON and let her get that you have done so. She will either follow, if she believes you have truly given up, or she will continue on her own journey. Right now, you are both just spinning in place. You've been told this over and over and yet you still claim you don't understand. With an Ivy league or similar education, everyone knows that you do understand what you are supposed to do. They are just tired that you are not doing it or listening. Really, it seems to me that you don't really want to do the work, you are too afraid so you really just want your hand held. You are better than that. Stop wasting your time and everyone elses. Man the f_ck up and handle your business like a boss. It's time. Fear is not your friend. Rid it from your existence and grow a set.

"I really needed answers not to be berated.

I feel like my chance for R is 50/50, I just have to wait for her to tire of OM.

Can you just answer my questions?"

Wow what a rude post. You really don't get it do you? You are trying to control the posters' responses to you just like how you're STILL trying to control your W. Your post about your interaction with your W is full of controlling and mindreading behaviors.

You do understand that claire7 and others take time out of their busy days to offer their SUGGESTIONS to you with no benefit to them, don't you? They don't deserve rude responses.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"I really needed answers not to be berated.

I feel like my chance for R is 50/50, I just have to wait for her to tire of OM.

Can you just answer my questions?"

Wow what a rude post. You really don't get it do you? You are trying to control the posters' responses to you just like how you're STILL trying to control your W. Your post about your interaction with your W is full of controlling and mindreading behaviors.

You do understand that claire7 and others take time out of their busy days to offer their SUGGESTIONS to you with no benefit to them, don't you? They don't deserve rude responses.

I was not trying to be rude.
The food shopping is for my family home. we were sharing this responsibility. I was under pressure because she literately just asked me to go to dinner with her as well.

Its very hard to cut someone completely out of your life when you live in the same house.

I apologize to claire7.

And what was so rude and controlling about my response to my wife. I was told that she is very passive aggressive. The best way to respond to her is with simple one word responses.
The "K" was how I was told to respond when she does not give me a definitive reply.

I did not mean to be rude or controlling. What I needed was an answer in desperation.

Sorry if I offended you.

Originally Posted By: unbidden

Leave her alone. That is the answer, be gone from her life and don't concern yourself with what she is doing or try to do friendly things with her. MOVE ON and let her get that you have done so. She will either follow, if she believes you have truly given up, or she will continue on her own journey. Right now, you are both just spinning in place. You've been told this over and over and yet you still claim you don't understand. With an Ivy league or similar education, everyone knows that you do understand what you are supposed to do. They are just tired that you are not doing it or listening. Really, it seems to me that you don't really want to do the work, you are too afraid so you really just want your hand held. You are better than that. Stop wasting your time and everyone elses. Man the f_ck up and handle your business like a boss. It's time. Fear is not your friend. Rid it from your existence and grow a set.

I guess the difficulty comes from the fact that we live in the same house and have a son that lives with us. The shopping is for food for the house etc..

How do people lovingly detach when they live in the same home?

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Originally Posted By: claire7

Ox...

I feel for you, I really do. But I have to be honest that I am flabbergasted at how little of this sinks in for you.
....
Can you try answering your own questions? What have you learned here in all the months you've been here?

What did you do wrong? What should you have done instead? How would you interpret her responses to you? You can't be that thick-headed...can you?

I am really at a loss here with this.
...
Can you just answer my questions?

^^^ Is it really true that you are at a loss as to how to answer your questions? Then, my recommendation would be to re-read carefully ALLLL the posts and replies you've had from this board. The answers are there.

We all make mistakes and slip up and have setbacks. But if you really feel, still, at this point, that you have NO idea what you are doing wrong, then I'm not sure anyone will be able to help you. You have to be willing to help yourself.

As an experiment, could you take a stab at answering your own questions? That would show where you've gotten some growth, or what you are misunderstanding about all the advice you are getting.

Ox, you live in the same home but not in the same bedroom and I assume that it's a pretty big house, no. You don't need to be a jerk to her, but just go about your own business. That's it. It's really that simple. Why are you making this so hard? Ask yourself that.

Originally Posted By: unbidden

Ox, you live in the same home but not in the same bedroom and I assume that it's a pretty big house, no. You don't need to be a jerk to her, but just go about your own business. That's it. It's really that simple. Why are you making this so hard? Ask yourself that.

Addiction to her?

Originally Posted By: claire7

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Originally Posted By: claire7

Ox...

I feel for you, I really do. But I have to be honest that I am flabbergasted at how little of this sinks in for you.
....
Can you try answering your own questions? What have you learned here in all the months you've been here?

What did you do wrong? What should you have done instead? How would you interpret her responses to you? You can't be that thick-headed...can you?

I am really at a loss here with this.
...
Can you just answer my questions?

^^^ Is it really true that you are at a loss as to how to answer your questions? Then, my recommendation would be to re-read carefully ALLLL the posts and replies you've had from this board. The answers are there.

We all make mistakes and slip up and have setbacks. But if you really feel, still, at this point, that you have NO idea what you are doing wrong, then I'm not sure anyone will be able to help you. You have to be willing to help yourself.

As an experiment, could you take a stab at answering your own questions? That would show where you've gotten some growth, or what you are misunderstanding about all the advice you are getting.

You just woke me up. Its like I regressed.
I remember as a sophomore in college one of my professors in my major accused me of asking manipulative questions as a way to get him to answer his own questions or do the work for me.

Its what I seem to be doing here.

Funny thing is I have become one heck of a salesman probably by using these techniques...but I can see how I make people nuts..Sorry,,,

But, you're still not answering your own questions like you've been asked repeatedly. Why don't you do that since you've had this epiphany.

I texted back "do you want company, I will be home between 4:30 and 5 PM?

I realize now I should not have responded to her text and I should not have asked this question at all. If I did respond I could have wrote, have a nice lunch say hi to S16 for me.

She texted back about two hours later
"Whatever u want to do is fine with me..."

Not sure what that means or what I should do?

If I did not ask her this would not be a question. If when I got home she asked if I wanted to go at that point I could have said yes, if she asked me to dinner (which she did) again I could have said yes at that point.
If I just came out and said no it would have seemed passive-aggressive or manipulative.

I responded "K". But still not sure what I should do?

The answer I gave was one I learned to give when she gives me a passive aggressive response or question, however had I NOT ASKED in the first place then I would not be replying.

Originally Posted By: unbidden

Ox, you live in the same home but not in the same bedroom and I assume that it's a pretty big house, no. You don't need to be a jerk to her, but just go about your own business. That's it. It's really that simple. Why are you making this so hard? Ask yourself that.

I do this at home. I do not pursue her at all. I give her all the space she needs.

She still shares the master bathroom with me, so when she uses it I stay far away. There is a dressing room between the Master Bed-room and the Bathroom. she will usually slide that closed if I need to get into the bedroom (to get to sleep or if I already am sleeping).

Last night she did this for example. When I walked in the bedroom she was complaining out loud about something.
I made the mistake of asking if shes alright and I got one of those snotty "I am fiiiinnneeee Ox'. I know shes exhausted etc..This is something I need to 180 big time. Our entire marriage that question would set her off when something was bothering her.

Here is why I realize that I have to detach more:
To protect Ox!

Last night at Dinner S21 came into the conversation.

She said she knows hes upset about what is going on, but

"He has to grow up"

"Don't I deserve to be Happy"

I looked at her and commented " So all that matters is your happiness? not the boys or mine or our family"

All she said was "Come-on your Happy Ox"

I have been warned that with WW its all about them but this was proof in the pudding.

Also gives me reason to really avoid most conversation with her. Not in a Jerk type of way.

Put the snark away!

It's not helping, you need to let go.

Come share jokes with us in new comers, you might be able to change your focus.

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

All she said was "Come-on your Happy Ox"

And you had a perfect opportunity to say "Explain how you think a man could be happy to watch his wife sleep with another man. Well? I'm waiting."

But I'm sure you didn't. Because you're afraid to make her mad.

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Here is why I realize that I have to detach more:
To protect Ox!

Last night at Dinner S21 came into the conversation.

She said she knows hes upset about what is going on, but

"He has to grow up"

"Don't I deserve to be Happy"

I looked at her and commented " So all that matters is your happiness? not the boys or mine or our family"

All she said was "Come-on your Happy Ox"

I have been warned that with WW its all about them but this was proof in the pudding.

Also gives me reason to really avoid most conversation with her. Not in a Jerk type of way.

My wife made some similar statements during her affair. When told by her brother how horribly upset her parents were about the whole thing, she coldly said "Well they just need to get over it." And similar statements about the older kids, who knew about her affair.

It's entitlement. Affairs are initially ignited by resentment, and then FUELED by entitlement.

Originally Posted By: catperson

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

All she said was "Come-on your Happy Ox"

And you had a perfect opportunity to say "Explain how you think a man could be happy to watch his wife sleep with another man. Well? I'm waiting."

But I'm sure you didn't. Because you're afraid to make her mad.

I did not want to push it in the middle of a restaurant.
She already got angry and almost put her hand over my mouth.

I also don't know if saying that is a DB way.

Originally Posted By: Starsky309

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Here is why I realize that I have to detach more:
To protect Ox!

Last night at Dinner S21 came into the conversation.

She said she knows hes upset about what is going on, but

"He has to grow up"

"Don't I deserve to be Happy"

I looked at her and commented " So all that matters is your happiness? not the boys or mine or our family"

All she said was "Come-on your Happy Ox"

I have been warned that with WW its all about them but this was proof in the pudding.

Also gives me reason to really avoid most conversation with her. Not in a Jerk type of way.

My wife made some similar statements during her affair. When told by her brother how horribly upset her parents were about the whole thing, she coldly said "Well they just need to get over it." And similar statements about the older kids, who knew about her affair.

It's entitlement. Affairs are initially ignited by resentment, and then FUELED by entitlement.

Now I get the entire entitlement thing I keep seeing on these DB boards.

Someone told me for some reason all my WAW resentment over her own life her own shortcomings are directed at me.

I think if she spills coffee on her blouse while in Antarctica she would blame me!

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

Put the snark away!

It's not helping, you need to let go.

Come share jokes with us in new comers, you might be able to change your focus.

Is there a JOKE thread?

Yeah, my thread in new comers, I started a different thread. There is little hoeing in my sitch. My z attitude is good! I need to share and keep in touch really, it gives me a place to reflect. So come share in my joke of the day method.

I called it the fleas.

And yes, both your wife and my h would blame us for spilling coffee in Antarctica!

^^^^ and some of that will make more sense once you read the thread.

Had another discussion with my DB Coach and we worked on some of my concerns and questions.

I have a real strategy right now and I will be applying it the next few weeks and then touch back to see where I am.

One thing I worked on was how to stop worrying so much about WAW and OM.

The other was how to handle her Passive-Aggressive behavior.

My hardest thing is going to be to not let WAW believe that what I am doing is Punitive. That it is actually being done by me to help me, not to punish her.

I was thinking of you last night when listening to this in the car on the way home.

It's a detachment song, more about death, but it's fairly true.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFFq31fBoeI
Ms delta goodrem. Australian but maybe known in the USA.

Originally Posted By: Ggrass

I was thinking of you last night when listening to this in the car on the way home.

It's a detachment song, more about death, but it's fairly true.

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tFFq31fBoeI
Ms delta goodrem. Australian but maybe known in the USA.

Thanks
I could use a good video

For some reason I am all anxious today!

Yeesh.

Sad song , reminded me of a girl I grew up with whose son died as the result of a car accident a few years ago.

She posts on her FB page every year songs etc on his birthday.

Oh Ms Delta Goodrem is a sight for sore eyes!

I could not listen to the entire video because my spirit is really broken.

I guess the closer it gets to the OM leaving the more anxious I seem to be getting.

I wonder if it's anticipation of how things go when he leaves.

Originally Posted By: unbidden

Ox, you live in the same home but not in the same bedroom and I assume that it's a pretty big house, no. You don't need to be a jerk to her, but just go about your own business. That's it. It's really that simple. Why are you making this so hard? Ask yourself that.

I have decided to set a Big 180 for when she " returns" after OM leaves.

I realize that she is exhausted mentally and physically and has really fallen behind at work.

So my 180 is based on detachment but it's more to give her all the space and breathing room she is going to need.

- I will not pursue her
- I will not start any conversation
- I will listen to her with all my undivided attention
- I won't talk about my issues or problems.
- I will give her all the space she needs to catch up on work

The biggest is to allow her to clear her mind and think....

I know I used "I" a lot but since the OM has not given her any time to herself and she used to accuse me of being intrusive and a pain in the arse, the items I listed will help her as much as me.

I also am not going to shut her down when she wants to tell me where she went the places she ate etc...I need to help her to keep moving the OM into the BFF zone...
Most of the woman I know feel that WW and he are like two girlfriends except WW does not know it....

Yes, it's sad song, but it really talks IMHO about feeling associated with death grief.

It shows that after years, there can be feelings, so don't think this has to be solved today. Feelings aren't rational or logical.

"The other was how to handle her Passive-Aggressive behavior."

Really? Can you not see that you are the one with the Passive/Aggressive behavior?

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"The other was how to handle her Passive-Aggressive behavior."

Really? Can you not see that you are the one with the Passive/Aggressive behavior?

Actually the MC says we are both Passive Aggressive but mine comes from defense. It's a defensive stance.

I am really trying to be the best man I can be. The OM has left, the WW is completely exhausted.

I refuse to bring up OM to her, I am just going to. E there for her.

My S21 is moving home this weekend and we will have a full house again.

My passive aggressiveness comes from fear. I seam to be afraid to make my wife upset with me. So instead of being blunt or direct I act passive aggressively towards her.

This is a big 180 for me to not let myself be " afraid" of her angry outbursts.

it doesn't really matter where it comes from

it needs to stop

it is detrimental to any relationship

Originally Posted By: figgeroni

it doesn't really matter where it comes from

it needs to stop

it is detrimental to any relationship

Yes yes yes!

I agree.

Where I find I still do it is when she triggers my concern that she may have been physical with OM.

What happens is we are having a nice conversation...

- she says something very positive
" I told the MC how he would keep me for hours talking and talking and over emphasizing his point and the clock would tick tick tick, then I would drive to drop him off and he would repeat himself for another hour " " whereas you were worried about my safety, you did not want me to drive home alone late at night, he did not seem to care as long as he got his point across"

Me--- I was wondering why a dinner at a Diner took 4 hours....

" don't even go there, don't"

Me--- oh what do you think, I think you were having sex, you already told me you had no interest in any man that way right now...( passive-aggressive I assume)

" I said not to go there" ---gritting her teeth and being visibly angry...

That's the one thing I really can't shake from my brain. In any other way I have been really good.
I guess I just don't want to be lied to, that's the issue...

But I am not going to even touch on the last two weeks and if she brings it up I am not going to do anymore but listen...

Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23

Why are you listening to the details of the places she's been on dates? I just don't get it. And they ARE dates.

By actually listening about her dates with OM, you are sending yourself into the friend zone , not him.

And how in gods name to reconcile with someone who remains BFF with their AP? Saw you wrote that too. That she will become BFF with him.

I'm just not grasping this.

I am not listening to what they did. She wanted me to know that they were places he was Famularo with.
The MC said to be very careful about saying
" please don't tell me where you went with..,,"
She said to word it right so it does not come off Passive Aggresive.

That's what I struggle with how to word it just so

Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23

But it isn't for me to grasp I guess. But you might want to think how that's going to work for you?

I am pushing her to end this BFF thing. It's Gounod to take time.

How hard can I push it?

Originally Posted By: gabbysmom23

Why are you listening to the details of the places she's been on dates? I just don't get it. And they ARE dates.

By actually listening about her dates with OM, you are sending yourself into the friend zone , not him.

And how in gods name to reconcile with someone who remains BFF with their AP? Saw you wrote that too. That she will become BFF with him.

I'm just not grasping this.

You're not the only one, Gabbs. You're not the only one.

Starsky

I am not really listening she volunteers the info and when I walk out I the room she continues to tell me.

The fact that your wife thinks it's okay to discuss her boyfriend with you, and their dates, speaks volumes about your stance throughout this long ordeal, Ox. Now that you are at this stage I guess you're going to play out the hand your counselor is advising you to play, but this is all just SO wrong, on SO many levels.

I get into some pretty spirited debates sometimes on this forum with people who contend that the best time to lay and enforce boundaries is LATER, after you've made your improvements and after the poster is "better prepared" to deal with them. I always STRONGLY disagree, saying that if you don't lay them early, then their wayward spouse's actions will become acceptable and tacitly agreed to.

Crap behavior is crap behavior, and should ALWAYS be addressed early on.

Starsky

Gay Boyfriend

Gay Boyfriend

Gay Boyfriend

An excellent read, Ox, is a book called "Love and Respect," by Eggerichs and Eggerichs. It goes into great detail about how a woman's feelings of love for a man are very closely tied to her feelings of RESPECT, and how if she loses the latter she will slowly lose the former.

It's written from a Biblical/Christian perspective, but I think it's spot-on even just physiologically and culturally. I learned a TON from it.

Starsky

Ox,

I don't really have any ideas on how to help you stay out of the friend zone. I hope you find a way.

Like Starsky says above it is probably better if boundaries are set earlier than later.

In my case, my W is not talking to me so it is hard to set boundaries. I would love to but it may be too late so I have to figure out something new.

You and your W cancelled the D and are talking. I would think this is makes it much easier to express to your W that a little respect is in order and please don't mention OM because that shows a lack of it.

About six weeks ago my W and I were discussing(she was yelling)some things about her probable A and every time she kept getting madder and madder because I handled it wrong.

I asked her why she was getting upset and she said I was harassing her. I said no, it is because you got caught and it p**ses you off.

I should have left it at that but I screwed up and said If you lose the OM, I still love you and we can work this out.

I guess what I am trying to say is maybe instead of walking out of the room when your W talks about OM.

Maybe stay and look her right in the eyes and tell her it is not going to be acceptable for you to keep talking about OM anymore. Then walk out.

Just my .02

Hey nit this a great idea.

Wonka, I am not so much the Gay Roommate as I feel like her brother.

I am going to start pushing my boundaries. I also will get the book Starsky recommends.

I thinks what drives me nuts is the OM is so much more controlling etc.

If ww and I are in a car and I ask her anything or I lay down a boundary, she's trapped and tells the MC I trapped her in the car.

If OM does it and she admits to MC badgers her and yells at her and tells her how to act she hates it but says it's because he loves her.

Maybe she believes abuse is love , I just don't get it...

I really will be careful about not discussing the affair, not talking to her about OM ( I may vent here a little) and just work on us.

We are even going away this weekend to move S21 home.

This morning she was talking to me about all these complex issues at work...I am sure I am the only one in this
Love triangle she can even talk to about this...

I will get it.

I guess I am afraid if I push to hard she will leave.

She does constantly remind me that she's not leaving her house.

It's just that OM seems to badger her so much that she starts thinking about it. Then when he's gone for a few days she changes her mind and stays.

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I will get it.

I guess I am afraid if I push to hard she will leave.

She does constantly remind me that she's not leaving her house.

It's just that OM seems to badger her so much that she starts thinking about it. Then when he's gone for a few days she changes her mind and stays.

a) If you are basing your actions on your fear of her leaving, you will never succeed at this. Work instead, always, from a standpoint of "what is the RIGHT thing to do in this situation?"

b) Based on your comments above, you know very, very little about setting and enforcing boundaries. They are NOT about controlling, and in fact if done properly they totally LIBERATE the other person to do whatever it is they want to do (so long as they are not hurting YOU).

If I could recommend two books to you, they'd be "Boundaries" by Townsend & Townsend, and "Love and Respect" by Eggerichs and Eggerichs.

Starsky

Ox, If she leaves she leaves, YOU can't control HER in any way. She is on her own journey no matter what she says.

I know you don't want her to leave, but if she stays my fear for you is she is going to cake eat till you get fed up enough and blow up thus justifying her position as a WAW.

I am not saying to force her out but don't do things that make you look like you cant be without her in the house.

In my sitch, I don't want my W to leave but if she does I am not stopping her for a couple reasons first, The space might help me to stop mindreading so much and maybe projecting a wrong aura. Second, she will have to live with her actions and the consequences that come with living the life she wants.

Third, by moving out, it takes pressure off of me and puts it on OM. My hope is that the true colors show through and my W sees that the grass ain't greener. Or then OM has to stand up and be a real man and do all the things he has probably promised her to drag her into the fog, maybe he will but my hope is he wont.

Then if W feels like coming back, I have regained some power in the relationship, Not control, but power.

I can then decide to take her back if she is truly remorseful and wants to work on things or I can say I am just fine with the way things have been since you left.

Hang in there!!

Ox,

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I will get it.

I guess I am afraid if I push to hard she will leave.

Okay..it looks like you prefer to stay in the gay boyfriend zone forever. From my perch, I do see that you just don't want to set boundaries, enforce them, and step up as a leader in the M.

You've been given great advice in all of your previous threads.

What makes me despair about your sitch is this:

You won't do a single jot about it at all!!

Let me tell you something here. I have NEVER, EVER acknowledged Ms. Wonka's OW for over 9 years...not even brought up her name or GASP talk about her with Ms. Wonka!

Toward the tail end of our email convo back in March 2014, Ms. Wonka pretty much came right out and "demanded" that I acknowledge the OW.

My response?

I said that I do acknkowledge her (said the OW's name for the first time in 9 years!! Barf)...but it does not necessarily mean I have to respect her. Also stated that I have never respected her before, not now, nor ever will. And I ended it by stating that "there will be some subjects that we will not be able to talk about freely and this is one of them. It is just the way it is."

Complete silence from Ms. Wonka. That's ok with me. Because I'd be damned to even acknowledge or talk about the OW!!!

Ms. Wonka's feelings/thoughts/reactions about my comments are hers to own. It's all on her. I was being authentic when I told her this.

This is MY boundary. And I suspect that Ms. Wonka is clear in understanding it. No, I am not mindreading here. The hard evidence is her total silence. Meh.

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

This morning she was talking to me about all these complex issues at work...I am sure I am the only one in this
Love triangle she can even talk to about this...

Okay. I'll play here.

What happens when you remove a right angle from the triangle? It collapses..right?

Your choice.

Good metaphor, Wonka.

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

This morning she was talking to me about all these complex issues at work...I am sure I am the only one in this
Love triangle she can even talk to about this...

Okay. I'll play here.

What happens when you remove a right angle from the triangle? It collapses..right?

Your choice.

Excellent!

Thanks

I have the book boundaries on my IPad I should finally read it.

Good one Wonka!!

Originally Posted By: nit84

Good one Wonka!!

Actually if I was the Gay roommate she would not hide herself from me.

That's why I say I am more like the brother!

Originally Posted By: Wonka

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

This morning she was talking to me about all these complex issues at work...I am sure I am the only one in this
Love triangle she can even talk to about this...

Okay. I'll play here.

What happens when you remove a right angle from the triangle? It collapses..right?

Your choice.

Well now the big experiment!
We are going to move son 21 home from Vermont this weekend...it will be me S16 and WW sharing a room.

She said she's going to sleep with s16. She's not and has not shared a bed with any man.

The MC says the OM has her so convinced that it is me she can't trust!

I have ro just keep my boundaries up this weekend. Even the promise that I will not engage in conversations about her "dates"

The issue is how S21 treats her.....

You know, all you do in your posts is complain about your W and the OM. Then you go to other people's threads and complain to them about your W and the OM.

I understand you need to vent, but even your C said you need to stop fixating on the A. How about starting to post about what is going on that's POSITIVE in your life right now and post HAPPY things.

wife...I am your husband and I find it very disrespectful to try and talk to me about your dates.

this ^^^^^^ is not passive aggressive

if you can't be whole on your own, why would your wife want to be with you???

oh...and by the way....you don't need to explain the above comment to her or have a discussion with her about it or anything else...

just the statement in a calm voice and then done

Originally Posted By: MrBond

You know, all you do in your posts is complain about your W and the OM. Then you go to other people's threads and complain to them about your W and the OM.

I understand you need to vent, but even your C said you need to stop fixating on the A. How about starting to post about what is going on that's POSITIVE in your life right now and post HAPPY things.

Ok so your right! It's enough venting in my part .

Actually my son and his fianc�e are moving to our house for their jobs in NYC.
We will have a full house and I think nothing but good could come of it.

We always wanted a daughter and mybsins fianc�e is very sweet and helpful.

Originally Posted By: figgeroni

wife...I am your husband and I find it very disrespectful to try and talk to me about your dates.

this ^^^^^^ is not passive aggressive

if you can't be whole on your own, why would your wife want to be with you???

oh...and by the way....you don't need to explain the above comment to her or have a discussion with her about it or anything else...

just the statement in a calm voice and then done

Well put. I have memorized this sentence and will use it.

Ok I followed the advice in what to say when "dates" are brought up.
So now we saw a commercial for a restaurant and her comment was oh that place is great I ate there last week we should go together.

In these case I just don't say anything...I don't see anything wrong with going to a restaurant she enjoys.

Things are well this morning... It's kind I like a 1950's sitcom.
We are in a hotel in separate beds.

She never changes etc in front of me, but she has no problem if I am in boxers and a shirt. She likes when I don't have a shirt on and commented on it last night.

It's like we are married in every way except for physical contact.

I have heard if WW's that don't want to be anywhere near their BS.
In my case I am just trying to figure out what to do next.

We talks about things to do together all the way to next summer.

We have intimate conversations about the children etc. It's all good stuff...

The but is that I just can't break the hold of the OM.

Still talking about your W and the OM.

You can't seem to stop.

Originally Posted By: MrBond

Still talking about your W and the OM.

You can't seem to stop.

How do I discuss how things are going with me without her if she's such a big part of why I am here?

In terms of me I am excited that my 21 year old son has moved back home for now.
He's a great son and he and I plan on doing some of the things we used to, like fishing, camping etc.

My thing is to get some rest after driving home all day in a large Uhaul while the rest if the family where in their luxury cars.

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

Ok I followed the advice in what to say when "dates" are brought up.

Like what?

So now we saw a commercial for a restaurant and her comment was oh that place is great I ate there last week we should go together.

In these case I just don't say anything...I don't see anything wrong with going to a restaurant she enjoys.

I must be missing something. Why would you have ANY problem with a commercial or her comment? I am confused.

Do you ASSUME she ate there with OM? Is that it? So, then you assume that she also decided to comment on that, to YOU? Really?

Things are well this morning... It's kind I like a 1950's sitcom.
We are in a hotel in separate beds.

So they ARE or are NOT "Well"? ^^^ What' are you saying?

She never changes etc in front of me, but she has no problem if I am in boxers and a shirt. She likes when I don't have a shirt on and commented on it last night.

It's like we are married in every way except for physical contact.

I'm sure that is difficult but hey, it's temporary. It really is.

You guys either work this out and restore/recreate your marriage so that it's truly close, or it ends --in TIME.

But for now this is how it is.

As hard as it is, don't forget there are many of us who have been there
or even those of us who were military---we've been apart for months to over a year at a time - and more than once.

It will pass, one way or the other. You are Not powerless.

I have heard if WW's that don't want to be anywhere near their BS.
In my case I am just trying to figure out what to do next.

What does "don't want to be near Their BS" mean?
and what is there to figure out if things are going smoothly right now?

We talks about things to do together all the way to next summer.

We have intimate conversations about the children etc. It's all good stuff...

Indeed it is "ALL GOOD STUFF" ^^^^

The but is that I just can't break the hold of the OM.

it was all good stuff UNTIL YOU brought up "the hold of the OM".

Do you mean the hold HE has on YOU? OR what? I"m lost b/c you say all these signs of progress and you and your w are getting along but you keep on going back to OM.

why? B/C your w is not ready to be intimate with you?

That MAY HAVE NOTHING to do with him.

Do you get that? He was never the "Cause" of your problems, so even his absence won't fix things.

That part is up to YOU and your w. How are your GAL and 180s going?

What are they now?

"How do I discuss how things are going with me without her if she's such a big part of why I am here?"

Because she SHOULDN'T be a big part of you being here. That's the point. Are you here to complain about your W and OM or are you here to save your M? Concentrating solely on your W and OM shackles you from doing anything else.

The only way to improve things is to focus on yourself and the GOOD things that are coming out of it. In fact, you even said your C told you you focused too much on your W. When are you going to catch the hint?

Originally Posted By: MrBond

"How do I discuss how things are going with me without her if she's such a big part of why I am here?"

Because she SHOULDN'T be a big part of you being here. That's the point. Are you here to complain about your W and OM or are you here to save your M? Concentrating solely on your W and OM shackles you from doing anything else.

The only way to improve things is to focus on yourself and the GOOD things that are coming out of it. In fact, you even said your C told you you focused too much on your W. When are you going to catch the hint?

ahh thanks for clarifying . I guess I thought that I was supposed to be including things between W and me. I understand that the OM was supposed to be ignored I just did not get the not getting help with my wife .

"it was all good stuff UNTIL YOU brought up "the hold of the OM".

Do you mean the hold HE has on YOU? OR what? I"m lost b/c you say all these signs of progress and you and your w are getting along but you keep on going back to OM.

why? B/C your w is not ready to be intimate with you?

That MAY HAVE NOTHING to do with him.I realize this, but maybe you can help me understand what this is about

Do you get that? He was never the "Cause" of your problems, so even his absence won't fix things.I am 180 degrees different then I was at the start of our issues. I don't get angry anymore. I have learned how to calm her down when she gets angry.

I don't let things out of my control upset or make me nervous (except for the marital crises

That part is up to YOU and your w. How are your GAL and 180s going?

My 180's are going great. I really am showing Myselfthe man I can be.

The GAL is as good as I could get it until now. I mean I go to the Gym without her during the week. I am not however able to do a lot of things completely away from her. We have been busy with moving my S21 and his Fiancee home and setting up his apartment etc..I was supposed to spend a couple of days on a boat fishing with a bud, but we had to delay that because of his kids.

What are they now?

My big 180 now has been to not talk about the future, to not pursue her.

One big one I have to focus on is not getting into conversations about whats she did unless she starts them. For some reason my w believes if a husband asks anything about what his wife did, its for one reason only "Control"

So I really have to let her start those conversations.

Another 180 is to try and spend less time thinking about my sitch.

_________________________

Ox, I was in a similar S as you months back. My W admitted that she let me come back too soon and was not over OM yet. I drove myself crazy looking at the phone records and knowing that she was still texting him all day every day. It wore me down and caused me to act in a way that was counterproductive to what I was trying to accomplish. My W would lie to my face and tell me there was no contact at all. Luckily she had been able to see the positive changes that I had made which seems to be the case with you.

During this time, when my W would see me acting down and stand offish and she would tell me I was only pushing her away. It was the hardest thing I've ever done to come home from work and act happy when I knew what she was hiding from me. I knew that I could not go on like that anymore. Thanks to the tough love on here from starsky and mr. bond I finally grew a set and told her it was either NC with OM or I was gone.

This was not easy for me to do, but I realized the pattern we were in would never make me happy or get our M on a good track. My W agreed and changed her phone number, gave me access to her email and took the pass code off her phone.

W did go through some what of a withdrawl for a month or more. During this time it allowed me to show her the man I had become knowing there was NC with OM to bring me down. I can now say we are the happiest we have ever been. Had I not finally taken a stand, I have no idea where we would be today.

Will you're W get pissed at you and fight it at first? Most likely yes. Will she gain respect for you and not see you as so much of a weak push over? I'm sure the answer to that is yes as well. I cant tell you what you think is the right move for you, but the dynamic you have now is getting you nowhere from what I can see.

And the whole we are just friends crap and I will not stop talking to him is complete BS. My W tried the same crap with me. He needs to be completely out of her life if things are ever going to work for you.

I thanks you! This is where I am at.
My S21 and his fianc�e are here and are supporting me doing this as well.

I have a timeframe in mind and fully intend to put my foot down.

Is your wife a strong willed person?
I guess because my wife is I have been afraid if pushing her to hard to soon.

How do you know when your in the last mile of the Marathon.

Ox,

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I have a timeframe in mind and fully intend to put my foot down.

^^ You've been saying this for eons. Chit now or get off the pot.

Bond
Starsky
Indigo
Train

All these four DBers put in healthy and firm boundaries on the OM/OW. They consistently enforced it day in and day out. Their outcomes? Affairs busted and happily restored marriages.

Are they all wrong here??!!

Originally Posted By: Oxford1

I have a timeframe in mind and fully intend to put my foot down.

You know what Admiral Stockdale said about timeframe's?

Stop waiting for some arbitrary point of time.

And Ox, I was scared to death to do what I did. I just knew that the way things were going we could not successfully give our new relationship a chance to succeed. I also knew that I personally could not live in a situation like that. You have been putting up with this for too long in my opinion, but everyone is different.

Originally Posted By: indigo1

I also knew that I personally could not live in a situation like that. You have been putting up with this for too long in my opinion, but everyone is different.

Yep, exactly. To me, that's the beauty of boundaries, or -- as I like to call them -- "My Boundaries of Personal Integrity." Only YOU know what they are, but they should be a very short list; your "dealbreakers," as it were . . . those things that you, as a person with your values, morals and ethics, simply CANNOT ABIDE.

And this is how it works, in practical application: If you decide that "I will not live in an open marriage," and you state that as a boundary to a cheating spouse, and if that drives them away from you, and toward the other person? Well, then that's THEIR CHOICE, and them cheating -- and staying with me -- wasn't an option for me anyway, based on my own authenticity and values, so what have I lost?

All I've lost in that instance is something that I could not have abided anyway.

"You must choose between her or me" is an ULTIMATUM. It's about THEM.

Boundaries should be about YOU -- "I will not live in an open marriage." It's then up to the other person to decide what to DO with that information you've now shared with them.

Starsky

Thanks everyone

Thanks for the 2x4's you all make a ton of sense!

And the line from Starsky is perfection!

Ox,

Thanks, but this isn't about who has the best "lines" or pithy retorts. It's about the proper and healthiest overall ATTITUDE, and what kinds of CORE BELIEFS you need to decide that you have . . . and then learning how to project those and, when necessary, enforce them.

Your CORE BELIEFS come first, and then your STRATEGY should flow from that, and then finally your TACTICS flow from your strategy. I don't think you've ever really figured out the first part of this, and if you ever do, I think you're obviously a really bright and personable guy -- I really think the strategy, tactics and "lines" will flow naturally from you.

You need to LOSE THE FEAR, and figure out what it is that really IS non-negotiable in your life, and in your marriage.

Starsky

Quote:

You need to LOSE THE FEAR

This. It was my biggest obstacle. And the more stories I read on here, the more I realize that it's something with which most everyone struggles when a M is on the brink.

That feeling of fear is REAL. We don't want to lose our spouses.

But we've already lost them. So what more do you stand to lose by dropping the rope, refusing to accept unacceptable behavior and moving on with your own life, knowing you'd LOVE to have your W back ... but also knowing you'd be okay without her?

Once you realize that, you will begin to naturally stop acting out of fear.

Ox, you've been getting essentially the same advice every forum you've visited. You just need to take action.

Thanks bud

These are the things I have needed to hear and yes there is a lot of fear.

This weekend I fell back in love with her to the point that I really need to figure out what I want and just go for the gusto.

I have never been afraid if anything in my life until my Sitch.

Originally Posted By: Train

Quote:

You need to LOSE THE FEAR

This. It was my biggest obstacle. And the more stories I read on here, the more I realize that it's something with which most everyone struggles when a M is on the brink.

That feeling of fear is REAL. We don't want to lose our spouses.

But we've already lost them. So what more do you stand to lose by dropping the rope, refusing to accept unacceptable behavior and moving on with your own life, knowing you'd LOVE to have your W back ... but also knowing you'd be okay without her?

Once you realize that, you will begin to naturally stop acting out of fear.

I think part of my fear has been that I did not want to mess things up for S16 and S21 especially with S21's fianc�e moving in.

The thing is it should be the opposite all of them are very supportive of me and if me trying to save Our Marriage.