So, it seemed H and I were making some good positive progress. Unfortunately big setback tonight. Multiple times we have discussed the need for a transparency plan but have never gone into specifics. H has asked a few times to hear them so I agreed to meet him today to discuss details. Things went South from item #1. Specifically, I told him that there is to be absolutely no contact with OW. This, of course, is infidelity recovery 101, which he darn well knows. Well, did that sure open a can of worms! H and OW work at the same company but she is at an office 2 hours away. Originally I thought that they never worked together but it turns out that apparently they DO work together on occasion. Apparently they were both on a conference call together just a few weeks ago. A couple of months ago they worked on a little project together. I was SHOCKED to hear this. Truly, felt blindsided YET AGAIN.
I told H that this is all news to me and I’m not sure I can live with knowing he could be in contact with her at any time due to work, even if he is honest about it. I said I have to think about things but I may need him to find another job. He totally balked at this. Needless to say, things are NOT looking good. Once again, he is saying that he wants to reconcile and will do ‘whatever it takes’ (literally stated exactly this). But when it comes down to brass tacks he just will not put his money where his mouth is.
Fortunately I happened to have an appointment with my DBing coach just a few hours later. I told her I am starting to feel like I cannot stomach spending time with him anymore. Emotionally, it is just too devastating to hang out, have a fantastic time, have him SAY all the right things only to be let down again and again. This has happened now multiple times pretty much from d-day 4 months ago. So I’m planning to step away from H and send the letter below. HOWEVER, there is one wrinkle, prior to our discussion today H had invited me to a concert this weekend with him and his older son and older son’s fiance. DBing coach thought it might be worthwhile, if I feel comfortable, to table things for a few days and still go to the concert with H. THEN send him the letter below. That way he would (hopefully) be left with a positive memory of us having fun before I back away. I’m still trying to decide if I feel comfortable with this idea.
Here's the letter I'm planning to send to him:
“I’ve been thinking a lot about our conversation last Wednesday. It seems that you are still unwilling to prioritize our marriage and do what is needed to save and protect it. As you know, I have suffered tremendous pain through this whole ordeal. At this point I feel I need to take steps to protect my heart as much as possible from any more suffering.
As much as I will miss connecting and spending time with you I feel I now need to step back and keep a distance. If for some reason you feel I have misunderstood anything from our conversation please let me know. Otherwise going forward I will have to keep our interactions focused on the kids.”
Any thoughts/feedback much appreciated. I am mulling things over the next day or two. I’m starting to feel more and more like H is just never going to come fully around. It’s an awful feeling.
Before you send the message (which I think is a bad idea), have you and your H discussed MC?
I would suggest you do that first before telling him he would need to change his job. YOu have to understand that that is a big step. Not so easy to find a job nowadays in this economy. The MC should be able to relay to him your concerns in a way that maybe you haven't been able to.
We went to a MC during our prior reconciliation attempt and the MC actually told us to separate because it was clear then too that H was not really committed to working on the marriage. It feels like this is more of the same.
My issue with H is more his reaction. If he were to say something like 'Ok, I will do whatever it takes and if you need me to brush up my resume and start job hunting that's what I'll do but I'm concerned I might not find another job' then that I could certainly understand. But the fact that he balks and does not (IMO) seem to 'get' what infidelity recovery takes is deeply concerning to me. He knows that no contact is a requirement. The MC told him that, he and I read an infidelity book together and a few articles that all say the same thing. I'm truly shocked that he is continuing contact with her. He knows better and he has a staff, I can't imagine that someone else on his team can't handle this woman! Also, he has accused me of making my job too much of a priority above him/the family (which I've really pulled back on). I can't tell you how many times he's said 'its just a job'. So his reaction also feels very hypocritical.
I'm curious why you think the message is a bad idea?
So utterly confused what to do next. Go to the concert with H, don't go to the concert. Give him the letter, don't give him the letter. Go to the concert THEN give him the letter as discussed with DBing coach. Or scratch the letter and do something else entirely. Maybe go dark (or as dark as one can go when co-parenting). Or do something really crazy like give him a call and try to actually talk to him about what went down yesterday. Now that would be novel!
I am just so shocked that he would think any contact with OW is ok in any way, shape or form. Just goes to show that once again I have been too trusting and naïve about where his head is REALLY at. I'm totally baffled by his behavior of late, we had been connecting so much. For this to come out now seems just so crazy. I don't get it at all.
mdu - haven't been where you are yet, but I'm in agreement with Bond.
Changing jobs is not to be taken lightly, especially at your H's age. It's a big, big, thing.
It would be ideal if you could always have absolute NC, but you may have to think through how much you can bend this, and whether you can trust him to honor the spirit of NC. As you said, you will have to judge whether he understands why you need NC and if he can meet your requirement without leaving his job.
For example, if I were to insist on absolute NC between OM and W right now, (not that we're at that stage, but she does seem to have left him for now) she would have to quit the volunteer job that she does for the school activity. They attend a meeting together twice a month. That would potentially ruin the season for a hundred kids. Would I do that or trust W? Mind you it's only for a few months, but you see what I mean.
Now only you know your H and whether he is in this or not, but at some point, you are going to have to trust.
I would go to the concert.
I would not send the letter yet; you have some thinking to do about how you are going to manage trust going forward.
mdu, I think you are being really unfair with your husband.
"More of the same" ??? Really? Have all of his efforts counted for NOTHING with you?
This is why I'm in favor of CLEAR no-contact & transparency plans, openly communicated and clearly understood by both betrayed spouse and wayward spouse. You guys never did that, and you can SAY that "he clearly knows I needed no contact!" or whatever, but the fact is that you guys left this issue unbuttoned-up.
I'm NOT saying that reconciliation can work if he continues to have contact with her -- I believe that it almost certainly can't -- and I'm not even saying he's not being totally insensitive to your feelings (he is), or that he's not underestimating how much he's playing with fire (he is!).
But I wouldn't start painting any ultimatums about a subject left so tenuous.
Starsky
MDU,
Girl...get a grip and focus on the positives.
I advise people to ask themselves this question throughout the DB process:
Will this action bring me closer to the goal?
To me, the letter you're wanting to send to H, will not accomplish that goal. In fact, it will turn him off and set yourself & the M back in a big way.
Your H is:
-spending more time with you
-making plans with you
-attending events with YOU
-said he want to "do whatever it takes" to make the M work
Now to the XOW at work. I've seen situations where the WAS move to a different departments, buildings or units. From a practical standpoint, I am not sure if H is able to do those things due to his position in the company.
Focus on the big picture. The XOW works in another place as you say here. They come only for projects that involve other people. Doesn't mean that the affair is still going on. I believe that H is in a grit and bear situation here that he has no control over.
It is all about your fears and that fearful thinking has caused you to write the letter as a way to regain some semblance of control over the M. Not good.
Trust. But trust and verify.
I think it would be a good time to discuss your triggers with H about the XOW to make him aware of how it affects you. This will give him an opportunity to step up and take some actions to reassure YOU that he's protecting you and the M.
You just don't know until you give him the opportunity to do so.
I think it would be a good time to discuss your triggers with H about the XOW to make him aware of how it affects you. This will give him an opportunity to step up and take some actions to reassure YOU that he's protecting you and the M.
You just don't know until you give him the opportunity to do so.
Great advice, Wonka.
Starsky
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the feedback. I was starting to come to the conclusion on my own that I should give H a little more of a chance here, at least to discuss his POV on NC and the potential job change. So I'm glad I'm starting to line up with you all, albeit a bit slower to get there ;-)
The contact through work really threw me. It really freaked me and made me worry and wonder what else I don't know. I'm sure there's a butt load.
I do have a question, though. I get trust but verify...but how can I possibly verify a work situation? For example, let's say that we agree he stays at his job but must completely minimize any contact with her (e.g., have one of his employees handle whatever she needs instead of him). How can I possibly verify that he is actually following through on this? And what about if/when they HAVE to work on something together. How can I possibly verify that they really kept it 'just about business'? It just seems like an impossible situation. It's a small company and he's high up in it so there's no place else for him to move within.
Bond,
I am curious as to how you and W handled her XOM who was her boss at that time. What was the process back then? How did W disengage from the XOM at the workplace? How did you handle that particular aspect from your end?
I'm thinking that your experience with the XOP at the workplace might help MDU here.
Thanks!
In my case, since he was her boss, I didn't have any choice but to let it go. She worked for a large organization and if she lost her job it would have been devastating to her reputation and future job prospects.
I let it go, continued to GAL while maintaining a civil friendship with her for the sake of the kids.
Things came to a head 3 years after the BD when her boss came to my working place and threatened to have me fired for some negative comments written about him online which I had nothing to do with. Evidently he messed around with other people at work and someone had found out that he had lied about his service record so he thought it was me. He went so far as to threaten my W's job and my family. Then he called me a coward for not confronting him at work about my W.
For some reason, an overwhelming feeling of calm came over me and I looked at him dead in the eye and told him that he meant nothing to me. That he wasn't worth my time W. But this time, a large crowd of my coworkers had gathered and I announced loudly to them that this was the guy who fooled around with my W which caused her to leave me. I had nothing to hide and people hiding secrets hate being drawn out into the open.
Needless to say he was incredibly embarrassed and demanded that I go out to face him. I looked at him again and told him that he meant nothing to me and that if he still considered himself a godly man (he is a pastor too), that he should go home to his wife and pray that his soul isn't thrown into hell for adultery.
Now normally I wouldn't have told anyone about my M problems as they were my problems. But he pretty much threw that out the window. After that, I called my W and asked her if her boss had returned to the office and she said he had. I asked her how he was acting and she said he was ignoring her. By then, the initial attraction was gone and they kept things strictly business.
Moral of the story is that there are some things you can control and some you can't. There comes a point where you will have to trust your spouse to a certain degree. Even if it comes to working with an AP. I have seen many people who have had affairs with one another and ended it, yet are still able to maintain a business relationship. Same goes for people who work together and previously had a relationship together.
The way society is nowadays, it's hard to avoid.
More developments…
So H and I ended up talking again about the NC/work sitch. It started out tense but he ended up suggesting ‘I can tell her to not ever call me directly and have her contact someone on my staff’. I was like ‘you would do that?’ He’s like ‘yes, I don’t want to have to quit my job but I can tell her to never contact me directly again and if she ever does I will let you know immediately’. I said ‘Ok, that helps a lot but how I can verify this?’ He said he can see if he can get work phone records. He said there wasn’t much he could do if someone invites her to a meeting he is attending. I tend to agree, but am less concerned about this type of situation since she is long distance and it would be a conference call with others on the phone. He wouldn’t actually see or directly interact with her.
We decided to keep it relatively short since these convos are so tough and agreed to discuss the rest of the transparency plan sometime late next week. I said ‘when are we going to do something fun again?’ He mentioned the concert on Saturday and asked if I still wanted to go, I said yes. He said he was a little anxious because he did not want ‘something to happen’. It’s clear that he is watching my emotional reactions VERY closely. I think I’m realizing that it’s not JUST my anger that bothers him but being overly emotional reactive in general. I explained to him that something I am working on (which I’m sure is not at all apparent here since I let it all hang out when I post!) is setting some of my strong emotions aside, especially about the affair, and just having fun with him. I said I did not want it to rule and taint all our time together and a really important part of our healing is just having fun because we had really lost that pre-A. I said I felt confident I could table it for the concert. I think he’s skeptical but I’m determined to prove him wrong!!!
Need to do some more shopping! Oh, and Wonka, I think it was you who suggested perfume. I am actually NOT a perfume wearer but brought some body spray and H has commented MULTIPLE times how good I smell. Any other suggestions, especially for the concert, please share!
MrBond, you will be very pleased to hear that I got a referral for an IC and will be calling for an appointment tomorrow. Realizing that I need to learn to manage my emotional reactions in general made me finally tip over to yeah, I need some face-to-face professional guidance on this one. H is actually going to see an IC too, he wants to understand better why he chose to have an A and work on speaking up when he’s unhappy about something. That’s been a big issue in our R as well as in other aspects of his life.
So I think we are getting back on track again. We may even meet up tomorrow afternoon in addition to Saturday, a little walk on the beach or something.
Wow, thanks for sharing MrBond. Impressive
In my case, my H is the ExOW's boss, she still works there.
They see each other regularly, and since many of their hookups took place in empty rooms/storage closets in the company buildings during regular work hours (I know, classy, right? Real romantic.), it's kind of hard to "trust" that nothing is going on now.
As for the "no contact" that we "agreed" upon initially, it had to be explained to H that "no contact" didn't just mean "no sexual contact". (Seriously).
They were going to ride to a meeting an hour away together two days later, and he says to me, "Well, it's not like we'll be alone in the car, Miss J. is driving..." !!!
So they'll be sitting in the back seat together, what--not looking at each other all goo-goo eyed?
Come on.
But he complied, no more calls/texts... I caught him with another phone that he'd stopped using and for some reason started again, hidden in his truck. It might have been legit, but there was one email to her saying"
"WORK QUESTION! (Heading) Call me tomorrow..something Miss J said."
I got really pissed, said, why can't she just answer the email with an email? Why does she need to CALL YOU?
Later that night when I was yelling at him over the phone about clearly breaking the no contact rule, he said "F-U!!!!!!!"
(Of course this was pre-DBing days.)
Over the last ten months I saw ONE call to her re: a closing due to weather. It was a one minute call.
But it showed me that he had NOT deleted or blocked her number as he's said.
True, I didn't see any other calls or texts, but even that upset me.
I think he mostly stood by the NC rule, but he wasn't about to let me tell him what to do.
The funny part is, when i looked at the call logs, it sure as heck looked like they'd already stopped calling/texting each other before I found out.
Later I found out H had exposed her to a blood-borne illness...he knew and didn't bother to tell her so she could protect herself.
Nice guy. That's REAL LOVE right there.
From what he said, I think she dumped him over that.
So she's not totally clueless.
But I don't think there is anything happening, at least at the moment.
H says "We're separated, so it doesn't matter anymore." Yeah, right. You filed, so it just washes away all my pain.
Well, it mattered to me VERY MUCH when I first found out.
I bothers me less now, but every now and again I get that *twinge*.
Supposedly she's been "looking' for another position, but clearly, not very hard. It's been almost a year....
She's back with her H... I know it's not DBing but I find out it's still going on I'd have half a mind to out the whole thing to her H and be done with it.
At that point, I'd have given up on my marriage anyway.
Ugh.
Sorry.
I had a "moment".
Anyhow, this is just food for thought.
----GGG
I was like ‘you would do that?’ He’s like ‘yes, I don’t want to have to quit my job but I can tell her to never contact me directly again and if she ever does I will let you know immediately’.
I am so happy you came here to discuss this before sending that letter!
mdu,
I could hug your neck. LOVED your latest post. YES!!!! You are BOTH doing what's yours to do in that post. Most promising one I've read yet.
Your H is LEADING the discussion/suggestions of how HE will put OW out of the picture, where she belongs. He came up with a solution all on his own! And you are LETTING HIM LEAD. Doesn't that feel awesome?!? Liberating?!? Better than if YOU had suggested a solution??! I'm feeling light-hearted FOR you!
I'm also so glad to read that you have identified what's "littering" your side of the street and are making plans to deal with that. Good on you.
(And Bond, for the record, wow! That took balls! My hat's off to you!)
Well done, mdu. And a pat on the back (from me) is reserved for your hubs, too.
Feelin' happy for y'all. Relax. Breathe. And - most importantly - enjoy the concert!
Oh and for the concert: same advice as the beach ...
Pretty new sundress/outfit, wedges and - important!! - cute jewelry! And maybe - to switch it up *just a little* - a different (but similar) fragrance this time ... since H seems to take notice.
Be the good ol' mdu: flirty, fun and beautiful! You already have it. Just flaunt it! As Wonka told me once: be the OW to the XOW.
Indulge a little. And enjoy yourself!
Thanks zew & train. Definitely feeling good that I seem to be making some progress in terms of applying the brakes a bit, as you said zew, coming here and posting the letter before sending. Now I'm surprised that DBing coach supported sending the letter. Maybe because I was pretty admanant in the moment. I guess it goes to show that no one source has the 'right' answer.
And no worries GoatGal, vent away any time. We all need to sometimes!
One very important thing I need to remember, which I noticed in some of the DBing notes, is to never discuss an issue with H when I'm upset. Not just angry, but upset at all. Too high risk of me turning it into anger and doing damage. She suggested doing a 48 hour hold before I speak to him. That seemed long to me but now I think it's about right.
Things came to a head 3 years after the BD when her boss came to my working place and threatened to have me fired for some negative comments written about him online which I had nothing to do with. Evidently he messed around with other people at work and someone had found out that he had lied about his service record so he thought it was me. He went so far as to threaten my W's job and my family. Then he called me a coward for not confronting him at work about my W.
For some reason, an overwhelming feeling of calm came over me and I looked at him dead in the eye and told him that he meant nothing to me. That he wasn't worth my time W. But this time, a large crowd of my coworkers had gathered and I announced loudly to them that this was the guy who fooled around with my W which caused her to leave me. I had nothing to hide and people hiding secrets hate being drawn out into the open.
Needless to say he was incredibly embarrassed and demanded that I go out to face him. I looked at him again and told him that he meant nothing to me and that if he still considered himself a godly man (he is a pastor too), that he should go home to his wife and pray that his soul isn't thrown into hell for adultery.
Now normally I wouldn't have told anyone about my M problems as they were my problems. But he pretty much threw that out the window. After that, I called my W and asked her if her boss had returned to the office and she said he had. I asked her how he was acting and she said he was ignoring her. By then, the initial attraction was gone and they kept things strictly business.
Wow, Bond -- much respect, man. I love that.
Starsky
More developments…
So H and I ended up talking again about the NC/work sitch. It started out tense but he ended up suggesting ‘I can tell her to not ever call me directly and have her contact someone on my staff’. I was like ‘you would do that?’ He’s like ‘yes, I don’t want to have to quit my job but I can tell her to never contact me directly again and if she ever does I will let you know immediately’. I said ‘Ok, that helps a lot but how I can verify this?’ He said he can see if he can get work phone records. He said there wasn’t much he could do if someone invites her to a meeting he is attending. I tend to agree, but am less concerned about this type of situation since she is long distance and it would be a conference call with others on the phone. He wouldn’t actually see or directly interact with her.
We decided to keep it relatively short since these convos are so tough and agreed to discuss the rest of the transparency plan sometime late next week. I said ‘when are we going to do something fun again?’ He mentioned the concert on Saturday and asked if I still wanted to go, I said yes. He said he was a little anxious because he did not want ‘something to happen’. It’s clear that he is watching my emotional reactions VERY closely. I think I’m realizing that it’s not JUST my anger that bothers him but being overly emotional reactive in general. I explained to him that something I am working on (which I’m sure is not at all apparent here since I let it all hang out when I post!) is setting some of my strong emotions aside, especially about the affair, and just having fun with him. I said I did not want it to rule and taint all our time together and a really important part of our healing is just having fun because we had really lost that pre-A. I said I felt confident I could table it for the concert. I think he’s skeptical but I’m determined to prove him wrong!!!
Need to do some more shopping! Oh, and Wonka, I think it was you who suggested perfume. I am actually NOT a perfume wearer but brought some body spray and H has commented MULTIPLE times how good I smell. Any other suggestions, especially for the concert, please share!
MrBond, you will be very pleased to hear that I got a referral for an IC and will be calling for an appointment tomorrow. Realizing that I need to learn to manage my emotional reactions in general made me finally tip over to yeah, I need some face-to-face professional guidance on this one. H is actually going to see an IC too, he wants to understand better why he chose to have an A and work on speaking up when he’s unhappy about something. That’s been a big issue in our R as well as in other aspects of his life.
So I think we are getting back on track again. We may even meet up tomorrow afternoon in addition to Saturday, a little walk on the beach or something.
This post made my day!
Starsky
Thanks Starsky, really appreciate all the support from everyone!
Had an amazing afternoon with H. Played hooky together and met at the house. First, made long sweet love. It wasn't our first time since the separation but it was probably the best. Then had some lunch and went for a walk on some trails near our house. Chatted and chatted. Finished our time together off with an ice cream. Although I had my moments when OW flashed in my mind, I kept my emotions 100% in check and just completely enjoyed the time. Things I am trying to do to make sure things go well when we spend time together (and that are working!):
-make the time fun and light, no heavy discussions!
-really pay attention when H talks, I try to remember details so I can ask questions later
-make sure I look and smell good from head to toe. Wear flirty things
-let H do some leading (although this one truly is tough, he really does not seem to like to decide, I'm really trying to stand back!)
-laugh and smile a lot, be flirty
-keep my emotions and expectations in check. There were moments when I wished H would tell me he loved me, when he didn't I just brushed it off and told myself it will happen when the time is right.
Tomorrow we have the concert with his older son and fiancé. Apparently they don't even know yet that I'm coming too but I didn't say anything when H mentioned that. I assume they won't have any issue with it, even though I really haven't seen them much through the separation.
And tonight I am going on the full moon canoe tour I signed up for a few weeks ago. Going by myself and looking forward to it, weather looks like it will be fantastic tonight.
Canoe trip was really nice. Started out a bit awkward because I was the only one alone but they ended up putting me in a canoe with a state guide so ultimately it worked out fantastic because it was like I was on my own private tour! And, I didn't even have to paddle at all. Just kicked back and enjoyed the ride.
I am realizing how very much I love to do things on my own. I love spending time with friends too, of course, but it's so empowering to know I can go plan something all by myself and have a fantastic time. Not only do I not really need H but I really don't particularly NEED anyone! When I think back, I've always enjoyed alone time, I guess with kids and all it's just been such a long time since I've had to occupy this much time by myself. I definitely feel like I'm rediscovering things about myself I'd lost along the way.
Thinking about getting up early tomorrow and finding someplace really awesome to go for a run. Then some shopping, then the concert trip with H. Feeling really good!
Last night was concert with H and his son and fiancé. Concert itself was a blast but there were a few moments when I paused and felt kind of confused about my feelings for H.
First, I realized how many times he has gone to see this band and never invited me. It really made me feel badly and made me feel a bit frustrated that H seems to point the finger at me quite a bit that we are 'disconnected' yet really, he hasn't made much effort himself in years. He has said that was because sometimes we would go out and argue so he stopped wanting to plan dates. And while that did happen it was really quite rare. I don't know, for some reason it seems a little unfair/lame excuse.
Second, H and his older son drank quite a lot at the concert. H wasn't sloppy drunk or anything but somehow it took me a bit by surprise and I didn't especially like it. He does drink on occasion and I've never had a huge issue with it. Now for some reason I'm wondering if he actually drinks more than I realize. I'm not really sure what to make of my feelings. Obviously, H is a grown adult and can drink if he wants. Maybe it's that controlling side of me that's getting set off? I mean obviously he made a horrible, stupid choice by having an A and alcohol in general encourages stupid choices (and the first night they hooked up they were drinking). I also have this fear that H has had a lot of secrets from me over the last few years. Like I said, I really don't know what to make of these feelings, maybe it's all just my fear running wild.
I was able to put these things aside and have a really good time. I realized I did not need to sort it all out right then and there and obviously any kind of 'talk' with H at that moment would be disasterous! So, here I am trying to think it through now.
Finally, H and I made love when we got back to the house. I actually was not that into it initially, which worried me a bit. I was able to get into it but not nearly as much as other times we've done it recently. I don't know if it was the things above that were on my mind or if it was simply exhaustion (we got home at 4am), or both. I worried a bit because very infrequent sex was a big issue for us, primarily driven by my low interest. I hope this was just a little dip as opposed to a downward spiral. I'm sure I'm worrying too much but unfortunately that's one of my many flaws!
Just thinking some more about my feelings/concerns regarding H last night, particularly around the drinking. And realizing how judgemental and critical I can be of him. Fact is, he didn't do anything wrong and was just having a blast. Also, it's not like I don't enjoy a few drinks on occasion --- and actually have over done it a few times. Why am I criticizing him? I think whenever I feel like judging something he's doing it's a signal that I need to step back and take a good hard look at myself. I think I need to just accept him for who he is, I'm sure he has often felt I don't. I think I need to think about whether I CAN accept him as is and if I can't then instead of trying to control/change him then move on! I don't really want to move on but I do think I need to change my perspective on aspects of H that sometimes bug me.
MDU,
Sounds like you had a good time at the canoe ride and at the concert with H.
A few things to bring up here for discussion.
First, I realized how many times he has gone to see this band and never invited me. It really made me feel badly and made me feel a bit frustrated that H seems to point the finger at me quite a bit that we are 'disconnected' yet really, he hasn't made much effort himself in years. He has said that was because sometimes we would go out and argue so he stopped wanting to plan dates. And while that did happen it was really quite rare.
I am not sure about being a rare occurrence since it has been posted here that you blow up at H. It is an issue and you really, really need to be mindful of HOW your thoughts influence your actions/words.
Second, H and his older son drank quite a lot at the concert. H wasn't sloppy drunk or anything but somehow it took me a bit by surprise and I didn't especially like it. He does drink on occasion and I've never had a huge issue with it. Now for some reason I'm wondering if he actually drinks more than I realize. I'm not really sure what to make of my feelings. Obviously, H is a grown adult and can drink if he wants. Maybe it's that controlling side of me that's getting set off?Not so much controlling as being overly judgmental for something that is a way for H to bond and have fun at an event with his W and son and DIL. Where do those thoughts come from? Was it a learned behavior? Something to do with your FOO issues?
Sometimes our FOO issues spill over in the marital R.
Finally, H and I made love when we got back to the house. I actually was not that into it initially, which worried me a bit. I was able to get into it but not nearly as much as other times we've done it recently. I don't know if it was the things above that were on my mind or if it was simply exhaustion (we got home at 4am), or both. I worried a bit because very infrequent sex was a big issue for us, primarily driven by my low interest. I hope this was just a little dip as opposed to a downward spiral.There will be times when sex isn't what we all expect. We all have had those moments. Nothing to worry about unless it is an ongoing problem which I don't think it appears to be in your case here.
Just thinking some more about my feelings/concerns regarding H last night, particularly around the drinking. And realizing how judgemental and critical I can be of him.Can you imagine how that must have made H feel? Very inadequate around you. What can you do to change those thoughts? How can you influence your interactions with H that are much more relaxing and positive-oriented?
I think I need to think about whether I CAN accept him as is and if I can't then instead of trying to control/change him then move on! I don't really want to move on but I do think I need to change my perspective on aspects of H that sometimes bug me.What are you really looking for? The perfect partner without any inherent flaws? Then go and date Santa Claus!!
Our spouses will ALWAYS have their own quirks and idiosyncrasies. It is up to us to learn to accept them and not resist them for it is futile to do so. By accepting them, then it will all wash over you and even laugh at them at times.
Had a noteworthy morning.
Woke up feeling really insecure and unsure about things with H. Just feeling down in general and unsure about my feelings towards him. Made myself get up and go for a run and that helped some but not much. Decided that I should work on getting back in shape (I’ve gained back much of the weight I lost on the LBS weight loss plan) and the thought of having a personal goal made me feel a bit better. Journaled a bit, which also helped some. Then drove into work and happened to meet up with H in the parking lot. He was going to drop off a few of the kids things in my car and we just happened to arrive at the exact same time. We ended up chatting a bit.
I’m not sure what it was but despite my initial negative mood this morning I was able to just be really light, casual and chatty with him. Maybe the few things I did to try to alter my mood helped just enough to get me mentally in the right space. I complained a bit about work (I think actually that maybe contributing to the decline in my mood, I think I do worse during the work week) and he was very receptive and a good listener. In the past when I’ve complained about something like work I’ve always felt like it didn’t go over too well but I think the difference this time is I wasn’t super cranky or attitude or taking my work problems OUT on him. Just chatting. It was really nice. He has a lot of big changes going on at his work as well, he promised to update me later. I got a lot of smiles from him. His smiles are really expressive and mean a lot to me. I felt very much we were in the ‘good relationship’ zone and both really enjoying our little interaction. I love when we have these times, even if very brief. I need to figure out exactly how to keep them going!
The other thing I need to figure out is how to deal with getting over the affair. I feel like the aftermath is constantly looming and dragging me down. In a lot of ways it feels like the pain and insecurity is getting worse rather than better. I feel like as a self protection I really minimized things in my mind initially, and now I’m realizing that this was WAY bigger than what I initially tried to convince myself. Just the fact that it is taking him so long to get over her is proof – he admitted the other day that while his feelings are declining he still thinks of her. I think the first step is getting through discussing the transparency plan. I am thinking of suggesting to H that I email the remainder to him and then we can set aside time to discuss. By emailing it might take away some of the risk of initial bad reactions (from either of us). I am learning that H really needs time to process things. His initial reactions aren’t always what I would ideally want but he tends to come around. This approach might mitigate that dynamic so he has a chance to digest and I won’t be tempted to start immediately reacting badly if he doesn’t wholeheartedly agree 100% to every item instantly.
Other than discussing the transparency plan I’m not sure what else we should be doing at this point regarding dealing with the affair? We had discussed some details previously (when/how it started, how long it lasted, how they carried it out --- txts, email, phone, meeting in hotels when he went to her office for work, once at her house). I know some folks really get into asking all sorts of details but I don’t seem to be one of them. I have asked some really pointed questions and inevitability it just hurts me terribly and haunts me so I stopped. But I worry/wonder if there’s more I *should* know? I really prefer to move forward but worried I am making a mistake. Thoughts?
Kind of a tough day yesterday. In general I just felt really down about things. Spoke to H last night and it was a good chat (lots about his work and changes happening there) but I must say, I didn’t feel a big spark between us. Maybe that’s ok, as that’s more the reality of a long term mature relationship. But I worry that is what he is looking for since that’s what he had with her. And at this point, I think it would be impossible for us to replicate. We had that time and it’s long over now. It comes in spurts on occasion but certainly not like the beginning. I hope that he is willing to ‘settle’ for the reality of a long term connection. And in my mind it’s not really settle at all but I fear in his mind it is. I wish I understood more of what he was thinking. I struggle with how much to probe, things are still so tenuous and probing him for what he’s still looking for/needing in order to come home feels like pressure. He is supposed to have an appointment with an IC but I’m not sure when. For now I’m trying to sit back and see if he shares anything about it. I’m sure if I don’t hear anything about it by next week I’ll start going bonkers but I’m going to try not to worry about that right now and just get through this week. I am going to speak to him later today about when exactly we can discuss the rest of the transparency plan. I think it will be good for me to get that off my chest and know that he has that info clearly and now it’s up to him. I’ll have done my part. Right now I feel good and strong about the transparency plan so let’s hope I can keep that feeling going.
Had a couple of sucky interactions about the A. Was at a friends last night and she basically started talking about it with me right in front of some lady I did not even know. I just kind of walked away. Folks are so into the ‘gossip’, they don’t seem to get this is my and my children’s LIVES, it’s not titillating entertainment! Then this morning I spoke to my sister a little about things and she got into the typical “I could NEVER do what you are doing, not after how involved he got with that woman, I could NEVER!” I just said “you really don’t know what you would do until you are in it, there’s a lot more to consider than just me or him, there’s the kids, his older kids, it’s not as black and white as people like to think.” Then she continued while adamantly shaking her head “Oh I KNOW I couldn’t” I just dropped it. I have to be choosier about who I speak to about things. It’s amazing how much your circle of support shrinks in this situation. Interestingly, rather than make me doubt my choice to stand by my M her attitude actually made me more adamant that I WILL work it out.
Although last night was kind of tough I was able to turn it around a bit by having some fun with the kids. S was in a weird mood and crying a lot so we did some meditation together (well, as much as a 7 year old can realistically do). It felt really good to be teaching him a healthy way to manage some of his moods. He’s quite moody like me! Then we downloaded The Hobbit and I started reading it out loud to the kids. I love to have a great book to read together with them. Tonight they are back with H and I’m going out with friends. Hopefully the time with friend will be fun. If they ask any question about H, and I know they are all VERY curious, I’m going to be vague and deflect. People just don’t really understand and I’m not interested in trying to get them to. It’s my life, only I know what’s best for it. I need to stop looking to others for approval.
MDU,
I love Tolkien!!! Read all of his books. I have the DVD collection of the trilogy movies.
Here I am starting to notice a pattern. When you are anxious, you tend to want to push the transparency plan on H. Hmmmm...am I warm here? If yes, I'd suggest that you hold off on the plan for the time being.
As in DBing, I stress that context and timing are important aspects of piecing as well. Bug, Bond, Starsky, 25, and others who have successfully reconciled would probably agree with me here.
Right now, the pair of you are in a fragile state and I do not think foisting the transparency plan on H now would be a good idea. You have made great strides with H. You might not like the pace...however, you are in PIECING. Sure, it is slow going and it should be that way if there's anything to be learned from your previous mistake in taking back H too quickly.
This isn't The Notebook, but real life. It will ebb and flow. There will be times it can be downright mundane and other times will be passionate, fun, and exciting.
It's your anxieties and fear of the unknown that's tripping you up. Take a stock of positive baby steps that have been happening over the past 2 to 3 weeks. That was a BIG change from a month ago.
For now, I'd suggest to table the transparency plan for now.
Trust us here...we will be able to tell when it's time to pull it out.
"Here I am starting to notice a pattern. When you are anxious, you tend to want to push the transparency plan on H. Hmmmm...am I warm here? If yes, I'd suggest that you hold off on the plan for the time being."
Hmm...I can see where you'd think that but I'm not so sure this time. H has been asking about it for weeks now and I've sort of been avoiding sharing more of it because I am so afraid that he will not agree to it So I don't think this go around I'm pushing it due to anxiety. If anything, I've been avoiding it due to anxiety. We had agreed last week that we would discuss it further this week, I feel like if I don't address it then I'd be avoiding. And I know he is waiting for me to initiate further discussion because last week I specifically said to him that I needed a break from the heavy stuff. We had previously agreed that if anyone needs a break then it's their job to come back to initiate further discussion when they are ready.
My plan for the transparency plan is to email it to him and then agree to discuss it in a few days. That way we hopefully can mitigate any strong immediate reactions (on both sides).
What do you think with that added info?
MDU,
How do you plan to approach the email? How would you word it? Thoughts?
First, I am going to suggest to him that I would like to email the transparency plan to him and make a plan to discuss it if there are any questions about it in a couple days. So first I want his agreement on this approach so I don't just spring it on him. Then the email will be very straight forward about what I need and include some comments around what we already discussed and I believe agreed to. Something like:
Following is what I need to begin feeling safe in the marriage and to begin rebuilding trust:
• Absolutely no contact with the other woman ever again. If there ever is any contact, even if initiated by her, I need you to let me know immediately so we can deal with it together. This includes work related contact. Agreed 7/10: If she reaches out to H will ask her to never directly contact him again. If it is a work related issue he will direct her to one of his employees.
• Totally transparency regarding your whereabouts and who you are with
• Total transparency with all electronic communications including:
o List of all contacts in your phone and who they are
o List of all communication apps on phone and computer (facebook, snapchat, email, etc) and all passwords
o Freedom to review your phone or computer and anything on it at any time
MDU,
I would suggest that you give H a heads up by phone or in person that you'll be presenting a transparency plan to H sometime this week for the two of you to discuss in person at a later time.
Meanwhile, you will have some time to work on this here with input from other DBers.
My initial thought is that you might want to let go some of the conditions. For me, the following two are overly stringent:
• Totally transparency regarding your whereabouts and who you are with
• Total transparency with all electronic communications including
You don't want H to feel like he's on a short leash with you. If he feels that way, boy he'll build up resentment so fast that he'll be out of the door once again and possibly for good. I am not saying this to come down heavy on you...just telling it as I see it.
You cannot possibly monitor every movement H makes or every communication H makes with family, friends, and colleagues. That shows him that you DO NOT trust him to step up at all. Not the way to go in beginning the re-building process.
Let's review your list here:
• Absolutely no contact with the other woman ever again. If there ever is any contact, even if initiated by her, I need you to let me know immediately so we can deal with it together. This includes work related contact. Agreed 7/10: If she reaches out to H will ask her to never directly contact him again. If it is a work related issue he will direct her to one of his employees.
It looks like H has already addressed this part and is forthcoming with you on this particular request. Do you feel this is the case?
• Totally transparency regarding your whereabouts and who you are with
Can you please explain your reasoning behind this request?
• Total transparency with all electronic communications including:
o List of all contacts in your phone and who they are
o List of all communication apps on phone and computer (facebook, snapchat, email, etc) and all passwords
o Freedom to review your phone or computer and anything on it at any time
What is the plan here? How often do you plan to check them? For how long? At some point you will need to let go of them and begin to trust H. It would not bode well for the M if H feels that you're constantly breathing down his neck.
"It looks like H has already addressed this part and is forthcoming with you on this particular request. Do you feel this is the case?"
Yes, this was from our discussion last week but I wanted to include it just to be 100% sure we agree and there's no misunderstanding.
"Totally transparency regarding your whereabouts and who you are with
Can you please explain your reasoning behind this request? "
I feel I should know who he's spending time with especially if it's female colleagues. I didn't realize how much I did NOT know previously. Maybe I should rephrase it though because it's not like I'm asking for a daily/hourly calendar but rather if I ask, I expect totally honest answers.
"• Total transparency with all electronic communications including:
o List of all contacts in your phone and who they are
o List of all communication apps on phone and computer (facebook, snapchat, email, etc) and all passwords
o Freedom to review your phone or computer and anything on it at any time
What is the plan here? How often do you plan to check them? For how long? At some point you will need to let go of them and begin to trust H. It would not bode well for the M if H feels that you're constantly breathing down his neck."
The A was carried out primarily electronically so this is a big one to me. I would offer him all of my info if he wanted so don't feel I am asking for anything I wouldn't do myself. I don't like secrets in a M and felt that way even pre-A. I don't plan to check with specific regularity but I want access so that if I start getting that yucky gut feel that something is off I have the freedom to verify. I assume I will stop checking when I start to feel more confident and safe in the M, I don't think there's a specific timeline.
P.S. Wonka, I keep totally cracking up at your The Notebook references...H happens to love Rachel McAdams, lol!
H just texted that he needs to discuss something with me. We are going to talk after he drops off the kids at camp in about an hour. We'll talk over the phone, which is good so I have a way to quickly get away if I start getting too upset.
I strongly suspect he is going to share that he and OW have been in contact. I honestly don't know what else it could be and just have a gut feel. I know I shouldn't assume but feel I need to brace myself for that. As much as that will suck, I do realize on the bright if he is forthcoming that's a big positive step for him --- he's talking to me about something really tough and he's abiding by the transparency plan (at least the parts we've discussed thus far). I know it's a big moment for me to show that I can handle this and not freak, so here's my plan:
*remain CALM, get off the phone at the first signs of feeling too much emotion or any anger. Say "I need to process things so would like a break, I'll let you know when I can talk again"
*know getting off the phone is an option but try to muscle through and show him that you can handle this. I don't want to let her threaten me and get me upset.
*thank him for being honest and forthcoming.
*force myself to ask specifics - usually I get too anxious and avoid, I think I'd be better off knowing it all, whatever it is, rather than hiding from it.
*resist badmouthing her. Just let him judge for himself what kind of person she is for continuing to pursue a married man with small kids (assuming that is what's happening).
*know that whatever happens I can deal. I can get off the phone and calm down. I can go to work and talk with one of my colleagues who has been really helpful. I will have the kids tonight and can focus on doing fun things with them. I can get through this.
*no matter what, as long as I remain CALM, I WIN!!!!
Omg, she is going to be working in his office a few days per week. Apparently she moved closer to his office!!!!
I have no idea how to handle this
Best thing in the world. They will think it is fun for a couple of days. Then being around each other for that much time every day only exposes the things that will drive them apart. Don't worry about it.
I totally suck, I must ask that everyone please do not reprimand me. I realize that I have totally screwed up and am beating myself up like crazy already, sick to my stomach. I don't need more beating. I ended up totally freaking out on him. I just can't believe that she is moving closer to us and going to be in his office multiple times per week. I can't see how we can possibly get over this. I have no idea what to do next. I am having a hard time imagining that she is coming here and he hasn't somehow been giving her hope that something is going to work out between them. She is coming NEXT week. What do I do? Please help!
mdu:
Wow. Not the best news, to be sure.
Did your H provide any more information/details?
What else did he say? How did he say he is feeling about this move?
I imagine you must be feeling absolutely sick right now. But there IS a glimmer of hope in that your H is being forthcoming.
Sending warm thoughts your way today.
I responded before I read your most recent response.
Step One: BREATHE.
Nothing has to be decided today.
But what did you say to your H? And where is his head at right now?
Journal here today. And keep journaling. But don't lose it again on your H. Just breathe and vent here.
I seriously need someone to tactically tell me what to do. I thought we were reconciling & now I am devastated again. I don't see how we can get through this. How can I possibly cope with him being around her? Not to mention how can he possibly control himself? He is not even firmly re committed to me. This could not have happened at a worse time. It's not like he's saying I'll do whatever u need to make u feel safer. I imagine he's thinking seriously about the possibility of being with her now.
mdu,
Until someone with a lot more experience chimes in, I'll just keep reminding you that you don't need to DO *anything* ***right now***. Because anything you do will be reactive.
Just like in your post up there ^^^, where you promised yourself if you felt overwhelmed you would take some time to cool off and process, I think you owe that to yourself right now.
I'm trying to find out your H's reaction to you blowing up to help you figure out how to do a little damage-control in that area specifically.
Can you tell us more about how he seems to be handling the news about OW's move? And tell us more about your latest communication with him. I don't think anyone's gonna beat up on you over you losing your cool this time. This is devastating to you, I know. But remember: OW is moving closer to your H. He isn't moving closer to HER.
I know that doesn't help your wound right now. But just know that your H may have had nothing to do with this. Let's give him the benefit of the doubt for now.
Well, H did not react well to my blowing up. He, of course, started getting annoyed and defensive. I did call back a little while ago and said that was I sorry for getting angry, that I know it doesn't help anything, that I just was so thrown by this and don't know what to do or believe. And obviously I don't trust him right now. He said 'I know'. His tone was kind. Then I said 'Do you have anything else to say right now?' and he said 'No' and so we said goodbye and hung up.
I'm honestly not sure how he's handling this news or what he's thinking. I think he's trying to figure that out for himself. He said that he just found out yesterday and is trying to process it himself.
Part of why I freaked out is because I had NO CLUE that this was even remotely within the realm of possibility! I asked him so many times if they had some sort of plan given that she lived 2 hours away and he said no. But apparently the truth is there was some discussion about her moving closer and coming to work at his office. He did claim the move was to be closer to her sister but I can't imagine that their relationship wasn't a factor at all in the discussion. And it seems very fishy that she is following through with this with NO thoughts of getting H back? It makes me think that at a minimum there's been some contact that has given her some hope to go through with this move.
Now I'm fully expecting that she is going to not only show up in his office but be 6 months pregnant to boot.
I feel as lost as I've ever been in this whole process. I had to leave work, I am home crying all morning. I am just so blindsided.. AGAIN!
Part of my anxiety with H right now is that I feel like it's not even clear if he's fully recommitted to the M and we're working to reconcile. I want to ask him that directly. I want to ask him if we're on the same page and trying to work to reconcile or if that's still up in the air for him. I want to tell him that I will still work with him and try to see this as a setback rather than a dealbreaker if he's still willing to work with me. I also want to tell him that I think he should agree to the transparency plan and come home ASAP. I really feel like being physically separated is putting us at HIGH, HIGH risk with her being in the office starting next week. It's a small office, there will absolutely be NO avoiding her.
mdu, hang in there. I'm on my phone in a parking lot, waiting for my daughter to get out of the store. Will be here with you, and will write, as soon as I'm home.
One thing quickly, though: there's this pattern about you. Your fears and anxieties slowly creep up. Something happens. The roof blows off. And you immediately see where *you* responded poorly. You apologize. And in a day, you're thinking more clearly and are soooo centered and focused.
You're going to get there again; I'm sure of it.
Let this anxiety and fear wash over you today; it's going to anyway because it's hard to control. But don't act on it. Tomorrow (or sooner), you'll be back to mdu. And we are all here for you in the meantime.
When you said your H got defensive, what did he say? You're doing an awful lot of mind-reading in your post (which equates to unnecessary pain and anxiety for YOU). What, specifically, is HE saying about his *feelings* re: OW's move? Have you asked him about how he FEELS about it?
He has not said how he feels about her move.
I can ask him but am not sure I trust I would get an honest answer or much of an answer at all. I know my blowups don't help but he truly has a really difficult time communicating, it's an issue across the board with him (colleagues, other family members, etc). Also, what would I do with the answer? Obviously I might not like the answer :-( I mean if he says something to the effect of 'well, it really stirs up my feelings for her' WTH am I going to do about that...other than torture myself every day with the knowledge??
I appreciate your observations, it's a good reminder to give it a day or so to cool down. I'm glad you think that I *can* think clearly...eventually ;-)
All I keep thinking is that the solution to this problem is H and I uniting as much as possible. Him agreeing to the transparency plan and coming home ASAP and then discussing every detail of their interactions and possible interactions and coming up with a strategy to minimize them. I really don't see any other solution? I fear if he does not come home and commit to me 100% then the risk is too great that he will slip into getting involved with her again.
I texted him and let him know I would like to talk about this some more. I said to him that I ideally I would have liked a few days myself to think things through but since things are happening rather quickly that maybe we shouldn't wait. I said I know he's still processing things and asked him when he thought he would be ready to talk again. He said he would like to speak tomorrow night.
So between now and then I need to get a grip and get a plan..
mdu, I'm sorry for this latest blow. I'm glad you two are talking about it openly and honestly at least.
Personally, I'm less concerned about the contact itself than I am with the combination of your husband's either lack of concern for your feelings on the matter, and/or his utter lack of awareness that makes him think his currently-still-fragile marriage can survive such an arrangement.
He's either uncaring or a fool, THAT'S what concerns me.
Pyromaniacs shouldn't work around matches and kerosene.
Starsky
MDU,
Breathe!! I can see that you feel quite gutted about the recent developments at H's work with the OW being transferred to the office.
It's no use running around like Chicken Little acting like the sky is falling. Try to find a way to get yourself centered and grounded. Truthfully, the M is not blown apart by this new development. It is one of those bumps that you two need to figure out together to navigate together successfully as a team.
In previous posts, it has been pointed out and you've jotted down as well that blowing your gasket has not been helpful at all. What can you do to rein back that tendency? Let's take a look at this from H's perspective.
If I try to open up even a bit, the W is gonna scream at me like a shrew. Why bother?! It isn't worth the hassle so I'll stay quiet. Not out of secretiveness, but to protect myself from the verbal onslaught from W.Gee whiz...that's not the way to go, right? You want to present yourself as the calm and serene person that can handle hearing some tough topics and being totally present to hear H's thoughts, perspectives, and feelings on this new development. Because of your blow-up, you've missed out on a golden opportunity to hear out H. How can you two build on emotional intimacy if you keep blowing up at H?
How you react to any event is how you manage your emotions. Self-mastery means being centered and taking charge of your reactions. It is within your total, complete control. You are not a victim of external circumstances. Remember that, sweetie.
MDU, you even wrote yourself a pep-talk prior to the talk:
*remain CALM, get off the phone at the first signs of feeling too much emotion or any anger. Say "I need to process things so would like a break, I'll let you know when I can talk again"
*know getting off the phone is an option but try to muscle through and show him that you can handle this. I don't want to let her threaten me and get me upset.
*thank him for being honest and forthcoming.
*force myself to ask specifics - usually I get too anxious and avoid, I think I'd be better off knowing it all, whatever it is, rather than hiding from it.
*resist badmouthing her. Just let him judge for himself what kind of person she is for continuing to pursue a married man with small kids (assuming that is what's happening).
*know that whatever happens I can deal. I can get off the phone and calm down. I can go to work and talk with one of my colleagues who has been really helpful. I will have the kids tonight and can focus on doing fun things with them. I can get through this.
*no matter what, as long as I remain CALM, I WIN!!!!
You broke pretty much every one of your "tenets" here. All because of your reactive tendencies.
Work on this issue and pattern with the IC. Another suggestion is to count 10 (or even up to 100) before responding to H.
I am going to break this post up so it is not a super loooong one like our dear friend, 25, here.
Okay, I think rushing things is the absolute worst idea. Why? Because you seem to be suggesting that you guys being together is going to somehow control him/his impulses. How do I know that's ineffective? Because he was having an A while you guys were living together. Right?
Also, your entire first paragraph, at least to me, sounds like control. And the simple truth is that you have none over your H. If I'm being honest, reading your first paragraph made ME feel rushed and suffocated. Moving him in, discussing every detail and telling him he needs to commit to you 100% comes across as SUPER-controlling. And it's really not going to work in the long-run. That's like applying a band-aid on a wound to stop the bleeding. It'll work for a minute. But the wound is still there.
Let's look at this from YOUR eventual perspective: OW starts her job with your H. You're living in anxiety every, single day. She's with him. You're not. What's going on? Are they having lunch together? Are they talking RIGHT NOW? What's she wearing? Is she trying to lure him today? We've already identified that your anger and anxiety - and the feeling of you having no control - seem to cause you to make spontaneous (and oftentimes unhealthy) choices. Can you imagine living EVERY DAY with that anxiety? Can you handle that, mdu?
Let's say your H moves back in. You guys discuss every detail (if he's not a communicator, as you say, then this is *already* a bad idea), and you develop strategies to minimize his interactions with OW. Are you gonna sit back every day at work and relax, knowing they're together at work but you've got a plan in place to control their interactions? Think about three weeks down the road; how are you feeling? How about three months down the road?
Fact is, mdu, the two of them working together puts your reconciliation-attempts - and your relationship - at VERY high risk for as long as they're in the same building. There's no sugar-coating that.
***
Can you clarify something for me, mdu? You've said your H has said he's "willing to do whatever it takes" for y'all to work things out. But then, you seem to suggest that the transparency plan could really cause a bad reaction. And you've indicated that you guys haven't "cemented" your decision to reconcile. So give me a brief synopsis of exactly where you guys are. It's important because advice is different when you're piecing from when you're trying to work on yourself to re-attract your spouse and gently pull them out of the arms of OP.
And here's the $21 million question: Is your H working in the same building with OW - who is *your* biggest trigger - a deal-breaker for YOU?
Let's start from there.
Reinforcements! Hallelujah! Hey, Starsky and Wonka!
No, I can't handle it. They will work in the same building, on the same floor, possibly just feet away from each other. It's a SMALL company. So I guess we're back to job change as the only possibility. Which honestly, I think will push him right out the door. And maybe that's the way things should be. I don't know what to think or how I feel, honestly.
I honestly don't know where the reconciliation is at, whether H is 100% in it or not. He has yet to fully agree to the transparency plan but (coincidentally) I only just gave it to him yesterday and we had agreed to discuss it tomorrow night. Actually, the first point on the transparency plan is no contact with OW ever again and I'm sure that's why he called to tell me this.
Having said all that, I cannot emphasize enough how much of a horrible, horrible communicator H is. So he may very well THINK we are 100% committed to reconciling, even though it's entirely unclear to ME. Who knows
All I know is the roller coaster is killing me.
Honey, I am writing two posts and look out for them soon. Hang in there!
Reinforcements! Hallelujah! Hey, Starsky and Wonka!
Good job holding down the fort, Train! mdu (and the board in general) is lucky to have you!
My opinion probably wasn't going to do much in the way of lessening mdu's anxiety any, I'm afraid. I do think this is a really important crossroads for her and her husband, and how they BOTH handle it is going to be very telling.
Sorry for talking about you in the 3rd person, mdu. LOL -- just realized how that sounded. YOU CAN DO THIS!!!
Starsky
No, I can't handle it. They will work in the same building, on the same floor, possibly just feet away from each other. It's a SMALL company. So I guess we're back to job change as the only possibility. Which honestly, I think will push him right out the door. And maybe that's the way things should be. I don't know what to think or how I feel, honestly.
OK, then one option is you calmly tell him "I'm afraid that doesn't work for me. At all. Looks like we both have some big decisions to make."
The GOOD news is? You don't HAVE to take that approach. You need to think it through -- along with with what the alternative approach would be -- and you (with our help) get to calmly (do try to stay calm!) work out what the likely consequences of each would be. For YOU. For YOUR KIDS.
And then YOU get to decide. No one is going to force you into something you don't want to do, and you know you'll get a ton of support here either way, mdu.
You may not be able to control the OUTCOMES, but you do get to be in charge of the DECISION, mdu. Maybe you can find some comfort in that.
Starsky
We've got your back, mdu!
And before I post again, I'm waiting patiently for the rest from Wonka, whose rational, centered approach helps calm ME.
MDU,
I've been thinking a bit on how to approach this and here is my thought. This post will be devoted to dissecting your posts and the next one will be fleshing out an action plan. Mind you, not a game plan, but ACTION plan.
Alrighty....off we go!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Omg, she is going to be working in his office a few days per week. Apparently she moved closer to his office!!!!Okay. It's a fact. Check. Not sure about moving closer to H's office. Yet to be determined. File under "mindreading."
I ended up totally freaking out on him.This is being reactive based on your emotions that you allowed to run amok. Use your head. Perhaps next time, take a 15 minute break and walk outside your work (or just go to the nearest place if it's raining). Talk to yourself..."okay, okay...this is news that I need to process. Apply the 24-hour rule to sit on this and then talk with H when I am calmer."
There's a reason for implementing the 24-hour rule (or in some cases 72-hours!) here in DBing. It forces one to STFU and prevents one from saying things they cannot take back.
I just can't believe that she is moving closer to us and going to be in his office multiple times per week. I can't see how we can possibly get over this.Yes it can be done. When there's will, there's a way. In fact, there have been some DBers who have had their WAS engage in affairs with their co-workers and they've successfully reconciled. Have faith in the DBing principles.
I am having a hard time imagining that she is coming here and he hasn't somehow been giving her hope that something is going to work out between them.
This is pure speculation and stinkin' thinkin'. It is our internal critic that is our worst enemy. Use whatever methods to stop those types of thoughts...rubber band, neon red stop sign, looking at pristine beaches on the 'Net, whatever works for you.
I thought we were reconciling & now I am devastated again. I don't see how we can get through this.NEWS FLASH: You are in the beginning stages of reconciling. This is the positive part you NEED and MUST focus on. The OW moving is just a nasty wrinkle that you can get ironed out in collusion with H.
Not to mention how can he possibly control himself?Wow. Not even showing some smidgen of faith in H at all here. You make it sound as if he is a 10-year old. C'mon! Give H credit where it's due. H has given you every indication that he is doing whatever it takes to work on the M.
I imagine he's thinking seriously about the possibility of being with her now.There you go with that awful mindreading and needless speculation. That is a waste of head space right there.
Well, H did not react well to my blowing up. He, of course, started getting annoyed and defensive.I curious to know what was said prior to your blow up. Did H start to open up to you? What transpired right there? I think this is the KEY to recognizing your patterns and his reaction to them. Did he shut down afterward?
I'm honestly not sure how he's handling this news or what he's thinking. I think he's trying to figure that out for himself. He said that he just found out yesterday and is trying to process it himself. Of course. All of this is new to both of you and H. Allow him the dignity and respect to process his emotions and thoughts about this new development. Give him the respect here.
He did claim the move was to be closer to her sister but I can't imagine that their relationship wasn't a factor at all in the discussion. And it seems very fishy that she is following through with this with NO thoughts of getting H back? It makes me think that at a minimum there's been some contact that has given her some hope to go through with this move.Needs some more information from H. It seems not to be all based on facts. Give him the opportunity to discuss with you on how this move transpired.
Now I'm fully expecting that she is going to not only show up in his office but be 6 months pregnant to bootReally?! Gotta stop those thoughts. It does you and H no good to be in that negative frame of mind.
I also want to tell him that I think he should agree to the transparency plan and come home ASAP.Hmmm..it is all on your insecurities about H and the M that is outwardly manifesting as a "demand" ^^. Not good at all. Work through them for they are your internal fears speaking out as anxiety and insecurity. Sit on the fear sofa and talk with the scared MDU to the other side.
He has not said how he feels about her move.I can only imagine that he's feeling a whole gamut of emotions as well. Allow him time and space to process them.
Him agreeing to the transparency plan and coming home ASAP and then discussing every detail of their interactions and possible interactions and coming up with a strategy to minimize them. I really don't see any other solution?There are other solutions.
I said to him that I ideally I would have liked a few days myself to think things through but since things are happening rather quickly that maybe we shouldn't wait. I said I know he's still processing things and asked him when he thought he would be ready to talk again. He said he would like to speak tomorrow night.Then back off and don't contact H between now until tomorrow night. Show him your respect for his process.
They will work in the same building, on the same floor, possibly just feet away from each other. It's a SMALL company. So I guess we're back to job change as the only possibility. Which honestly, I think will push him right out the door. And maybe that's the way things should be. I don't know what to think or how I feel, honestly. I can see that you're most probably feeling a jumble of roiling emotions now. That's okay. Allow yourself some time and space to process them.
I honestly don't know where the reconciliation is at, whether H is 100% in it or not. He has yet to fully agree to the transparency plan but (coincidentally) I only just gave it to him yesterday and we had agreed to discuss it tomorrow night. Actually, the first point on the transparency plan is no contact with OW ever again and I'm sure that's why he called to tell me this.Reconciliation and piecing is filled with fits and starts. A lot of the times the WASes do not verbally state that they are 100% in it because they still struggle with doubts, uncertainty, confusion and experiencing OW/OM withdrawals.
If H is reaching out to you to discuss the contact with the OW, that is a good move on his part. I think he's wanting to collaborate with you on how to face it together as a team. I sense it is what H's coming from...and was going to explain it to you until you blew up at him and he shut down.
Having said all that, I cannot emphasize enough how much of a horrible, horrible communicator H is.And you've been married for 8 years. Something is good in there somewhere, right? You can do your part to gain some clarity with open-ended questions.
I hope you've taken away some valuable insights here. The next post will discuss an action plan for your discussion with H tomorrow night.
Hang in there!! We're surrounding you with love and support right now.
Still here. Thx so much for all the posts. I desperately need them. Just met with IC for first time & she was utterly useless, literally stared at me baffled half the time. Oy
Ready to work on an action plan. I feel so beaten down right now, I desperately need to find & reclaim my power again. What do u guys need from me to help me sort it thru?
Maybe you could start by carefully reading what everyone's already posted to you, digesting it, and asking questions. There's a lot of good MEAT up there. ^^^
Starsky
MDU,
Here is the section that will attempt to flesh out an action plan for your meeting with H tomorrow night. Of course, you do have a lot of say in this process. After all, it is your process and you do have a say in this.
First of all, I do want to make an important point here.
It is
essential to remember that this is H's own mess, it is for him to fix himself, and not enable him by cleaning it up after/for him.
Remember how it didn't work the first time around when H came back after the first affair. Because he did not do the hard work on understanding the why's of the affair, recognizing the emotional fallout on the betrayed spouse--you, and the pair of you sweeping it under the rug. You were desperate to have him back at all costs and I am starting to see that at play again by your 'demand' in your recent posts to have him back at home ASAP.
It's time for the new and confident MDU! Let's showcase that new gal to H!
I want to circle back to Bond's comment a while back about the WAS working in the same place as the XOM/XOW. As he stated before, due to today's tepid economy, it may be more difficult for H to move out of the company. It is certainly an option on the table if it is economically feasible for H to do so. More on this later.
Starsky reminded you that you do not have control over the outcome. I agree with him to a certain degree. What you do have control over is how you react and respond to H. In a way, you can influence the outcome. There's a huge difference between trying to control the outcome and influencing it.
Please keep this in mind each and every time you interact with H. This is for you, H, the M, and your children.
Now let's view your sitch under the microscope or a magnifying glass.
Here are the facts:
-OW is moving to H's company facility
-OW is moving next week
The rest is just white noise. We will need to work around this fact and it's what we need to work with at the moment. This is where your focus needs to be at this very moment. Things could very well change down the road.
As Train said, this new development presents a challenge to your reconciliation process. You will need to view it as a
challenge that you and H can work through together. This isn't necessarily an obstacle to the R. Again, two very different things: challenge and obstacle. Can you rise to the challenge? Yes, I think you certainly can!
Before you talk with H, you might want to contemplate over several items and think about your position in relation to your interactions with H.
First things first, you need to acknowledge and recognize your triggers. Having the OW in proximity to H is clearly one of them. This dredges up bad memories for you about H and the OW. It was a very serious breach of your martial R and trust has been broken.
When you speak with H, I would urge that the FIRST and most important act of love you can do is to center/ground yourself prior to the discussion. My suggestion to you is that you do not go into the transparency plan right off bat.
The first thing is to ask H how he's feeling. Be sure not to make this all about YOU. He is a part of the marriage equation too. Then ask questions using "how", "what". By asking open-ended questions to H, he will open up to you. You want to avoid saying “you”, “why do” for they are accusatory and will put H on the defensive. And BE SURE TO CHECK your impulsive, angry responses at the front door of the house. It has no place in your meeting with H.
You would want to give H the opportunity to step up and explain how this came about. By asking how and what questions, you'll get the answers to some of the questions you've asked in previous posts.
"How did this come about? Could you tell me a bit more about this decision process?"
"What is the set up at the company? How would that look like when she arrives in the office?"
"How do you feel about this?" Let H talk it all out without interrupting him or injecting your thoughts.
"This is helpful in understanding this and I appreciate you sharing it with me here. As you probably can see, it is incredibly difficult for me because it is presenting many triggers for me." Perhaps use this time to apologize for your angry responses and that you desire for H to feel comfortable in opening up to you.
PLEASE, PLEASE no interrogation of H!! It will cause him to shut down.
After a while, then you probably can state your needs to H.
"H, what I need from you is your reassurance that you are making every conscious effort to have zero to minimal contact with the OW at work. This is your mess and you do need to clean it up. How do you plan to address this?"
Sit back and listen to him.
And one last important tool for you is using validation techniques. To make it easier for you, I'm attaching the link for you here.
Validation: Cheat Sheet You got this, baby!!!!
MDU,
Several pick-uppers for you here.
-Put on a nice outfit
-Smile when you greet H
-Be sure to break the heavy discussion with light, fun comments and jokes as appropriate
-Be sure to focus on working together as a team--"how can we face this together? what are your thoughts/ideas?"
-H can come up with some solutions
-Be sure to have the spotlight on YOU two not on the OW
-Calm, cool, and collected
At the end of the convo, I would give H the
After The Affair book by Janis Abrahms Spring and ask that he read it as a part of "doing whatever it takes" to work on the M. I'd suggest that you buy the book at the local Barnes and Noble store if you can.
Use this ^^ approach only if H has shown openness about the OW and the office move. If not, then I would hold off on giving him the book.
One other thing for your benefit is you might want to buy the book How Can I Forgive You? by Janis Spring.
It is for YOU to read for your own healing purposes.
Okay, trying to answer various questions in recent posts. Hopefully I did not miss anything!
“I curious to know what was said prior to your blow up. Did H start to open up to you? What transpired right there? I think this is the KEY to recognizing your patterns and his reaction to them. Did he shut down afterward?”
I think what specifically sparked the blow up was when I asked H when she would be moving/coming to his office and he said next week. That just threw me over the edge. I was just SO overwhelmed (still am) how we can possible handle this and reconcile. And the fact that it’s NEXT week gives us so little time to sort this out. I think the trigger for ME was just feeling completely overwhelmed. I guess H shut down after that. I don’t know, the conversation is frankly a bit of a blur after that. I oscillate between getting angry and calming, he did say a few things during my calmer moments like “I don’t know what to do” and “I just found out yesterday and I’m trying to process this myself.”
“Remember how it didn't work the first time around when H came back after the first affair. Because he did not do the hard work on understanding the why's of the affair, recognizing the emotional fallout on the betrayed spouse--you, and the pair of you sweeping it under the rug. You were desperate to have him back at all costs and I am starting to see that at play again by your 'demand' in your recent posts to have him back at home ASAP.”
Just to clarify, this is not my sitch. H has not had multiple affairs. I think you might be confusing me with Train. H and I separated and he came back home after 10 days wanting to work things out but then really wasn’t up to the work and that’s how we separated again. Looking back, I think he was either still in contact with OW and/or experiencing withdrawals. Either way, he just did not have her out of his system enough to let me back in. That’s obviously why it’s such a huge problem with her coming to the office --- it’s all going to churn up again.
"You would want to give H the opportunity to step up and explain how this came about. By asking how and what questions, you'll get the answers to some of the questions you've asked in previous posts.
"How did this come about? Could you tell me a bit more about this decision process?"
"What is the set up at the company? How would that look like when she arrives in the office?"
"How do you feel about this?""
He already explained how it came about. Apparently she had been contemplating moving closer to H’s office to live near her sister. Apparently she has gone and done it and so now will be working in his office. It’s not a career move or something the company imposed on her. It’s something she is choosing supposedly to be closer to her sister. I obviously think she has other motives.
The company is very small, there is maybe 15 people in his office, all in a small space. They will literally be feet away from each other.
I have not asked him how he feels about it. I agree, that will be important to ask. Although truthfully, the answer will surely make me flip. I know I need to get a grip on that, just being honest.
"H, what I need from you is your reassurance that you are making every conscious effort to have zero to minimal contact with the OW at work. This is your mess and you do need to clean it up. How do you plan to address this?"
This sounds good in theory but honestly, I can’t imagine what H will say to this. Given that it’s a very small company as I described there will be NO getting away from her. Other than quitting his job, which we already know he does not want to do, I can’t imagine what he could possibly offer to get away from her.
MDU,
What are your plans to get grip on your trigger-fast angry responses?
I have not asked him how he feels about it. I agree, that will be important to ask. Although truthfully, the answer will surely make me flip. I know I need to get a grip on that, just being honest.
You've been through the worst already. Why would you flip again? Really. This isn't Anne of the Green Gables, honey. This is right in the trenches. No bones about it...this is rough stuff recovering from affairs.
"H, what I need from you is your reassurance that you are making every conscious effort to have zero to minimal contact with the OW at work. This is your mess and you do need to clean it up. How do you plan to address this?"
This sounds good in theory but honestly, I can’t imagine what H will say to this. Given that it’s a very small company as I described there will be NO getting away from her. Other than quitting his job, which we already know he does not want to do, I can’t imagine what he could possibly offer to get away from her.
How to you know? Did you read the crystal ball already? You just.don't.know.until.H.is.given.the.opportunity.to.step.up.
You will need to hear H out here and allow him to figure out his chit.
I would also ask H in a nonjudgemental way if he experienced any lingering feelings about the OW and if her move might stir them up.
YOU want to open up the windows with H and allow him in. That is what Shirley Glass spoke about in her book, Not Just Friends, where the window opened up between the affair partners that started with their emotions regarding their marriages...then it got deeper and deeper.
You need to the the person that allows H to open up and confide with as his equal partner.
"What are your plans to get grip on your trigger-fast angry responses?"
Honestly, at the moment, I haven't got a clue. All the things I've been taught would be useless. Generally the idea is to get AWAY from the troubling sitch until you can calm down. There is no getting away from this.
"I would also ask H in a nonjudgemental way if he experienced any lingering feelings about the OW and if her move might stir them up."
Let's assume he says yes to this. Then what? What do I do with this info other than torture myself knowing it when they spend all day together in the office next week? I know I probably sound flip but I seriously don't understand how having this information will help me at all. I assume that it WILL stir up feelings for him. I can't imagine how it couldn't. Just a few days ago he told me he still thinks of her.
Wonka, to your question about why I would flip when I’ve already faced the worst. I honestly don’t feel that I’ve faced up to the worst. The worst would be we D and he goes off with OW and together they take my kids 50% of the time. That’s the worst and while I’ve contemplated it here and there for the most part he has kept giving me hope since BD that we will work it out. Knowing that she is coming to the office and will be right under his nose makes this seem like an impossible situation to me --- and that the worst is just a matter of time. I do not want this, I do not want this at all. I can’t believe how far this has gone.
"What are your plans to get grip on your trigger-fast angry responses?"
Honestly, at the moment, I haven't got a clue. All the things I've been taught would be useless. Generally the idea is to get AWAY from the troubling sitch until you can calm down. There is no getting away from this.
Mnuh...no...no. You're not getting off easy here. I'm holding your feet to the fire right there. You DO have control over how you react. It is ALL ON YOU.
Let me tell you about an actual experience IRL.
Back when I was in college, I lived in an co-ed dorm with co-ed on the same floor with boys in one wing and the girls in the other one.
My roommate and I were open about our sexual orientation. Remember this was right where the AIDS crisis was just starting to spread and the 80's wasn't a fun time for gays. We got all sorts of harassment from unknown individuals who scrawled some nasty stuff on our door and what not. I had my suspicions about who might be the instigators.
I didn't react angrily or lash out. What I did one day was to calmly walk to the other wing and knocked on the interlopers' door. Then I told the guy in a firm and calm voice that if he and his roommate didn't stop their activities, they would be reported to the Dean of Student Life.
Presto! All of the nasty stuff stopped immediately and we did not experience any more of silly, sophomoric antics from them or anyone else.
I used my head and took a firm control of my inner anger at their blatant homophobic actions toward me and my roommate.
You can do this, MDU. Yes, there is no escaping the OW move but face it head on like a grown-up that you really are.
Wonka, to your question about why I would flip when I’ve already faced the worst. I honestly don’t feel that I’ve faced up to the worst. The worst would be we D and he goes off with OW and together they take my kids 50% of the time. That’s the worst and while I’ve contemplated it here and there for the most part he has kept giving me hope since BD that we will work it out. Knowing that she is coming to the office and will be right under his nose makes this seem like an impossible situation to me --- and that the worst is just a matter of time. I do not want this, I do not want this at all. I can’t believe how far this has gone.
Stop it! Stop this nonsense! Your stinkin' thinkin' is very self-defeatist. That's not the new MDU we want to showcase to H.
Ok, help me figure out how to change my thinking. I can't be optimistic about things with H right now, I just can't. But maybe something like reminding myself that I can and will be happy alone if that's the way it goes? I know I need to turn this around, just struggling to get there (clearly!).
P.S. Thx for hanging in there with me Wonka. I'll get there, I promise!
I'm just going to echo what Wonka has said (and what I've said before):
TRY YOUR HARDEST, mdu, to start with a beginner's mind. You THINK you know what your H is going to say and how he will respond and how he's feeling. And perhaps your assumptions are correct. There's also a 50% chance they're not.
Until you've heard from him - literally HEARD him - you don't know where he is or what he's thinking.
And if you snap and lose your cool, he's going to shut down.
A tip: think of a mantra. You can use it every time you feel you're about to explode. You can say it out loud. Or say it to yourself. Train your mouth to close even when the thoughts pop in your brain.
You have self-control. I see it in all your posts.
Now embrace it and use it. Now. It's never been more important.
Let your H clean up this mess.
Ask him:
1. Whether he feels having OW so close in proximity is going to bother him, personally.
2. Whether be believes having OW so close in proximity is going to harm your reconciliation attempts.
And listen to what he says. Not what you THINK he's saying. What he's *actually* saying.
Enter this *believing* he wants to be with YOU. Because he's said he has. Enter this *knowing* you and your H are the team. OW is not on y'all's team. So, for this conversation, she's almost irrelevant.
This is about you and your H.
Go back to the concert. Go back to the day at the beach.
He chose YOU.
Screw those insecurities! Don't give him a *reason* to re-think his decision to choose you, mdu.
You're the one, baby. Now act it! Be the OW to the XOW!
Oh, and even though I feel it'd be next to impossible for you to be happy if H stays at his job, I'd keep that talk in your back pocket for now.
Wait to hear what he has to say. Ask the open-ended questions and listen without judgment or criticism.
Then come back here, and let's all talk about your next move.
You can do this!
Thanks, Train. I think my plan is relatively simple at this point (although will be very challenging for me to execute).
First, I need to control my anger and emotions when I speak to H on Thursday. Not sure how I am going to get there but I'm working on it.
Second, I need to ask H two things:
“How do you feel about having her in the office?”
“What are your thoughts around what we can do about this situation?”
Then listen, validate and don’t react. Probably end the convo with something like “Ok, thanks for your thoughts, I need some time to think about things”
I think if he asks me anything, like my opinion on how to handle it, I need to deflect with something like “I really don’t know.”
And I think that’s about it for now.
The only additional thing I wonder if I should ask him first is if this latest development has changed his interest in reconciling or if that's what he still wants to work towards. And then let him know that I am hoping we can find a solution together
Thoughts?
MDU,
I really, really hope you can find a way to get yourself centered and calm before, throughout and after you talk with H.
The only additional thing I wonder if I should ask him first is if this latest development has changed his interest in reconciling or if that's what he still wants to work towards.
Nope. This is your anxiety coming out here and it comes across as pressure to H if you ask him about it. Your mindset is that you two are already on the path of reconciliation. Keep the focus on how to address the OW moving to H's company facility. This is just a new wrinkle and you two need to figure out a way to face it together.
Try to keep an open mind on what H says and/or brings up. Try to go with the discussion flow.
So, am I 'acting as if' we are reconciling?
Because truly, I feel like I don't know and that seems like something I ought to have clarity on, no?
So, am I 'acting as if' we are reconciling?
Yes, YES....yesssss. You got this one right, baby!
Ok, I think I am getting you. I hope.
I don't know if this is helpful (or healthy for that matter) but here is my dream: I reach a point where I so do not care about OW and she is such a non-entity, non-threat to me that I strut into his office right by her (looking absolutely FABULOUS, of course), all smiles and happy. Give her a little once over (maybe, but probably don't even acknowledge her at all) Grab H by the hand and walk out right past her together without a care in the world, both totally focused on just us.
Yep. On second thought, don't ask him if he believes having her close is going to impact your R attempts.
You've got it: go in and act as if you're reconciling.
The two of you are on the same team. OW doesn't have a jersey.
Please please please keep that in-the-office visual while you're talking to him, mdu.
"Oh, and even though I feel it'd be next to impossible for you to be happy if H stays at his job, I'd keep that talk in your back pocket for now. "
I think you may be right, Train. And it scares the poop outta me. Because I really feel unsure about H leaving his job. I mean if he quit immediately that would be a huge problem, we need his income to cover the mortgage. Not to mention the potential emotional consequences of him being unemployed (i.e., home alone all day, getting depressed and potentially resentful, etc.) I mean let's face it, unemployment can be very emotionally challenging -- as if we don't have enough emotional challenges to deal with right now! If he stays for some period of time and tries to secure something else before leaving that could easily take months (he has a high level job, not easy to find around here), so we'd still have to deal with her for some period of time. Also, he just got a huge opportunity at work so he'd be giving up a lot. I'm not saying he shouldn't be willing to do that but it does start to feel like a recipe for major resentment if I force his hand. It's really a tough, tough challenge and that's why I'm freaking out. I really can't see ANY good solution.
Wait. Wait. Shhhh, everybody! What's that I hear???
Oh! It's that ol' mdu we know and adore!
You're getting that focus back, sista! (And so soon this time!)
Thoughts about this:
I mentioned I called earlier to apologize to H about getting angry, etc.
Often H and I will text each other a little something about the kids and then maybe a good night. Not always but often enough.
Wondering if I should text him a little something about the kids and then say something like 'I know all of this is tough on both of us, I'm thinking of you and hoping we both can get some good rest tonight'
A little more damage control from getting upset earlier and trying to get us on a more positive path again. Thoughts?
Found her head in a ditch and claimed it right back. MDU isn't the headless horsewoman after all!
Thoughts about this:
I mentioned I called earlier to apologize to H about getting angry, etc.
Often H and I will text each other a little something about the kids and then maybe a good night. Not always but often enough.
Wondering if I should text him a little something about the kids and then say something like 'I know all of this is tough on both of us, I'm thinking of you and hoping we both can get some good rest tonight'
A little more damage control from getting upset earlier and trying to get us on a more positive path again. Thoughts?
Shush! Sit tight. You're just temp checking.
Show your H respect by allowing him time and space to process his feelings. C'mon....get out for a walk or something! Or take the kids out for some ice cream. You need a distraction now.
K, sitting tight.
And am I really starting to sound more rational now? I don't entirely feel it just yet, but encouraged that I might seem it a bit. Maybe I'm 'acting as if'!
You're sounding MUCH more grounded and centered, absolutely. And you're thinking through things instead of projecting all knee-jerk negativity.
You just have to remember this in the heat of the moment. Breathe. STFU. Give yourself time.
remember...she is a bandaid...they get thrown in the trash when they aren't necessary anymore.
You are doing the work to make her unnecessary.
trust that
remember...you are the real deal and she is the imitation...don't let her control your mood and your progress forward.
Don't give her any more power.
trust your husband...
he gave you this information knowing how you might react.
sometimes there is no plan...you have to embrace this idea...deep breathes...
why should your husband leave his job...perhaps she really did move closer to be by her sister (maybe she is ill or something)and what is to say when she sees that she no longer has her claws in your HUSBAND (remember...that is what he is) SHE will move or quit?
stem your insecurities
trust your husband...
he gave you this information knowing how you might react.
Hi mdu, been a while since I've had anything to add but I have been following and you've come a long way. I think this quote from figgeroni hits the nail on the head. You seem to post a lot without seeing what you're posting. By now, you KNOW that you flipping out is a deal breaker for him and he STILL came to you with this information. That's big! That's positive. See the positive, feel the positive and act positive.