I know this is a marriage saving site and I promise to update this thread later with all the db mistakes I made during labor.
I am asking for prayers please for Lillian. She arrived at 2:32 this afternoon and was transferred to another hospital and placed in the NICU. I am grateful they released Mr so I could go be with her.
Awww, sweetie, I hope she's doing okay. Sending prayers.
Twinmom,
Thoughts and prayers for your daughter Lilian and yourself. Hope the both of you are doing ok. Sending positive thoughts your way!
Dev
Labour is a great excuse, to look after twin mom first, not your hubby.
Thoughts & prayers with u & Lillian!
Prayers for you both.
Agree, DB is irrelevant when you're birthing a baby.
Keep us posted.
Prayers just sent your way, Twinmom! Wisdom for her caregivers, and healing for her little body!
And COMFORT for you.
Starsky
Thinking of you and Lillian, and prayers are being sent your way, twin.
Keep us posted!!!
Sending good thoughts your way
HUGE guilt, can't stop sobbing/being slightly hysterical right now. Lilly is going through withdraw symptoms from the zoloft and ativan I took because I couldn't handle the situation between me and H.
I stopped taking it about a month ago so this wouldn't happen but it still did. They are treating her for the withdrawals and she will be here minimum 5 days.
We are not at the hospital where I delivered so I was "discharged" after 2 hours and no room to sleep in here just a waiting room.
They won't let me nurse her because they want to measure everything so I have to pump and give a bottle when all I really want to do is hold her close to me. We aren't allowed to hold her at all. H has not held her at all yet, I was allowed to immediately after birth but only for a few minutes till they took her away.
I hurt my baby because I couldn't handle stress, worst f'ing mom ever. I can't even look at her knowing I did this to her.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME????
I realize you are postpartum and worried sick about your baby, feeling guilt and everything else. But:
THIS IS NOT ON YOU.
Did you choose to walk out on your H? Did you choose for him to go to OW? Did you choose to introduce this chaos in your home at a time when any healthy woman has extra needs? OR:
Did you choose to do the best you could with the hand you were dealt? Did you take steps to make sure she was given the healthiest start you could give her? Did you have to balance your, and her, needs against the needs of the other four children in your home?
YOU DID THE BEST YOU COULD. You are NOT the worst mom ever. She deserves the love and care you have for her. She is getting the care she needs right now and that is what a good mom does. You haven't left her alone in the hospital, you are sleeping in a f-ing waiting room hours after giving birth because you care that much. You are a DAMN GOOD MOM.
I'm sending you extra prayers. No one should have to go through everything you've been through and will continue to endure. Call someone you trust to come and help care for you. YOU DESERVE THAT AND YOUR DAUGHTER NEEDS YOU TO BE WELL-SUPPORTED RIGHT NOW.
Keep us posted. I know it's not going to happen, but try to lay off blaming yourself. Give her the best start you can by caring for yourself.
HUGS.
Continued prayers, Twinmom. I cannot even imagine what you're all going thru right now.
Regardless of the past, YOU ARE THERE NOW. Be the best mom you can be, and love her with all your heart. Mamabear will know what to do, and it WON'T be cutting and running (like someone else in her life!).
I pray you can get some peace today and tonite.
Starsky
twin,
No. Just no.
Maybell is spot on. You are an amazing mom. And you KNOW this. We all do.
You hang in there, lil mama. Lillian will be just fine. And so will you.
Continued thoughts and prayers ...
Ok so I think I might really lose it. Nurse just told me social services is on their way to talk to me. That I am not allowed to leave the nicu till they talk to me because of the "drugs" in her system.
It's a formality, Twin -- they're just doing their job and following their standard procedures, I'm sure. Take a deep breath, express remorse and let them know you'll be BOTTLE FEEDING when you take her home if you have to. Just explain that what you took was a short-term thing because of what your husband did to you -- they may even be sympathetic.
Starsky
I hope everything goes well with social services. Please stop blaming yourself!! You needed to do what you had to do to deal with the situation. If you hadn't, Lillian may have been born much sooner. They know what they are dealing with and I'm sure will give her the best care possible. I am praying for you and Lillian.
Social services need to tick there boxes and make sure Lilly is not in danger.
You have legitimate reasons, but there is no doubting the huge ar$e mess the whole thing is.
My prayers for both you and Lillian. God's peace to you.
Hoping you and Lillian are doing all right. Just wanted to let you know I'm still thinking of you.
Sweetie -
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I want to make you aware of something that may be useful.
As I understand it, they called social services because the baby tested positive for the drugs? But if you were off of them for a month there's no way they should show up in her system (or yours).
Except - some people have weird enzyme defects in how their liver processes drugs. I remember hearing a lecture at a medical conference a few years ago, and a case was mentioned in which a breastfeeding baby suffered an overdose of narcotics. Turned out the mother had abnormal metabolism pathways, and her normal dose of vicodin for postpartum pain resulted in extremely high concentrations in her breast milk.
If you haven't had the drugs for a month and they're showing up in your system or the baby's, you may have some similar quirk that makes you very slow to process medications out of your system. And you might need testing to prove this.
Thank you! I will ask the Dr about this. My mind is hardly functioning and I can barely remember what day it is, anything the nurses or Dr has said to us I have just believed and not questioned at all.
quote=kml]Sweetie -
I'm so sorry you are going through this. I want to make you aware of something that may be useful.
As I understand it, they called social services because the baby tested positive for the drugs? But if you were off of them for a month there's no way they should show up in her system (or yours).
Except - some people have weird enzyme defects in how their liver processes drugs. I remember hearing a lecture at a medical conference a few years ago, and a case was mentioned in which a breastfeeding baby suffered an overdose of narcotics. Turned out the mother had abnormal metabolism pathways, and her normal dose of vicodin for postpartum pain resulted in extremely high concentrations in her breast milk.
If you haven't had the drugs for a month and they're showing up in your system or the baby's, you may have some similar quirk that makes you very slow to process medications out of your system. And you might need testing to prove this. [/quote]
I was under the impression that some ad can stay in your system for weeks. Up to 4 or more. They way I understood was they build up and wear down slowly.
Social services wanted the name and phone number of my therapist and a release form to speak to the therapist to make sure I was "stable"
That's hard to take. But if you were a third party in a stable place looking at your situation from the outside, you'd also think it's reasonable. What you are going through IS earth-shattering.
I am so sorry that this special time has been damaged so horribly. I really hope that some time in the not too distant future that it's just a blip in a happy life. Sending more hugs & prayers.
Ok so update first. Social services = no problem, contacted my therapist and then ed told everything ok....
Lillian is off the oxygen and they are lowering her iv fluids and I get to nurse her tonight.
DB mistakes during labor....... told H I loved him right after an intense contraction. Asked for a hug when they told us they needed to transport her to another hospital to go to the NICU (he didn't say no to the hug but didn't hug back and he was crying)
LOTS of physical touching by H during labor (hugs/pulling me in close) calling me sweetie.
Sooooooooooooo much time spent together, we have not been apart more than an hour or so (go grab food to bring back) since Wednesday at 4ish
I know emotionally I am going to be taking huge giant steps backwards in the detach area....
First off, really really glad Lillian is improving and Social Services is resolved.
Secondly, nobody should ever expect to have sufficient control in labor and delivery to DB with the baby's father. Give yourself a break. You behaved the way a woman in labor behaves. That was right and true and it's ok.
Thirdly, you have a newborn baby. Recover, bond with her, take comfort in her. Whatever happens or doesn't with you H is temporary compared to that.
More hugs, more prayers, more support for you. Be well and find peace.
Thank you everyone! I have been able to nurse her 2x this evening.
Emotional blow (grrrr I knew I was taking huge steps backwards) H filled out birth certificate information and he didn't know a few of the background prenatal questions so left it for me to finish. I saw he put his new address :-(
Yep, shouldn't matter but it was a deep breath and telling myself I won't cry in front of the NICU nurses over this.
OW dumped him..... he was told to get his stuff out today. I told him to leave hospital if he couldn't act like everything was normal because I don't need to see him moping around here.
I bet she takes him back but I really don't care right at this moment
I told him to leave hospital if he couldn't act like everything was normal because I don't need to see him moping around
Good. for. you, twin!
Thank you, I slightly slipped on "saving him" when he asked for a favor. He is taking the twins to a picnic for father's day and wanted to borrow my van as his jeep is filled with his clothes and he didn't want to have to tell his family (he told his mom but no one else) that she kicked him out.
I agreed (I am just sitting at the hospital anyway).......
Second guessing myself that I should have said no and made him face up to his family.
No, you did ok. Stick to the high road.
that was awesome. He needs to get his $hite together and decide.
Things might be on the improve for you.
Thanks, right now I am having a hard time with the pursuit/distance thing as we are having SOOOOOOOOOOOOO much contact. If he isn't here at the hospital he is texting asking how things are going or chatting about something.
I'm still astounded that you are doing all this from the NICU. Hats off, and sending hugs and warm wishes.
Lillian is nursing every 3 hours, no more oxygen, no iv, no monitors. Her blood sugar is good. She might come home tomorrow
Do you think I should take H up on offers to help with the older boys or should I just tell him I am just fine?
Do I still try and make minimal contact with H or do I meet one of his needs and stay in constant communication?
Who is looking after the other children?
Maybe It sold be good for him to have them. As for contact do what works, but for you, not him.
twin, accept his help right now. You just had a baby. Accept ANY help right now from those you trust with your children.
Now isn't the time to "prove" anything to yourself ... or anyone else.
Just keep your expectations low re: your marriage. If you accept help with the kids, just keep reminding yourself *it's help with/for the kids*. But, yes, accept help.
Sooooo happy to hear things are improving with Lilly!
Big hugs!
Who is looking after the other children?
Maybe It sold be good for him to have them. As for contact do what works, but for you, not him.
I got "lucky" and went into labor on a Wednesday afternoon. The older boys are with their dad from Thursday morning at 7am till Sunday at 11am. But because it was father's day he wanted them all day. So I have not even had to worry about them.
What works for me as far as contact..... hmmmmmm when I fall into "fantasy happy family land" or reality check he is still an a$$ that has shown no remorse/wanting anything different...........
Mentally I know I need to stay away but the hope inside of me doesn't want to.
I know where your head is at, I've got some issues with my h.
It's tricky, one of the messy things he created, but as It fall on my child and our side of the street I need to sort it. He's saying he's not punishing the child by taking the road he is, but it does.
One part of me wants to scream, your a fing arse stop it. The nice side is like ok, I've played the game before so we will play and move chess pieces untill I get what I want or he admits he's lied to the child.
Will post long update and beg for advice later tonight after the kids go to bed but need some quick advice if anyone is online and can help out.
H is staying here and I need to know if I should ask him to discuss how long he is going to be here or just keep my mouth shut??
Don't borrow trouble. Get your rest and sccept the help for the moment. Plenty of time later to tell him he can't just move home because OW kicked him out; he would have to DO THE WORK before you let him back. But for now just accept it for what it is.....temporary help....and enjoy some sleep.
Don't borrow trouble. Get your rest and sccept the help for the moment. Plenty of time later to tell him he can't just move home because OW kicked him out; he would have to DO THE WORK before you let him back. But for now just accept it for what it is.....temporary help....and enjoy some sleep.
He doesn't want to be here. And it's hard on me. I honestly don't know which is worse being alone or knowing someone is only here to help you because they have no where else to go
He doesn't want to be here.
Don't make ASSumptions. You don't know that. He probably DOES want to be there, at least so that he can be sure his new baby daughter is safe and his kids are cared for. And he probably cares about looking like a good guy. And yes, it's probably convenient that he doesn't have to figure out where to live today.
You need SOME HELP of SOME KIND right now. If you have someone else you can call that can come help, then do that and tell H you've got it covered. Or if you think you'll be ok at night so long as he takes the kids in the day so you can nap, tell him he can't stay there but you would welcome him coming for a few hours during the day so you can get rest.
You have to separate out your irritation with him, your desire to push for a confrontation (in the vain hidden hope that he'll blurt out "but no! I love you and want to be with you forever, I was wrong!"), and your absurd resistance to accepting help from anyone. These are all separate issues and need to be treated separately.
Also, remember to keep in mind, this is not a guy in MLC, this is a serial adulterer, who made you his OW without your knowledge, who is likely going to repeat his pattern again and again through his life, and unfortunately cannot be the husband you deserve without a lot of therapy and help, which he's not too likely to get. Just use him for the temporary help you need and let go of the rest.
Don't forget twin, be kind to twin. You have a lot going on hormones new daughter, your number one, he's a complete ar$e.
He should help, in fact he is obligated to for his children. Due to his adultery, even good neighbour status is almost too good for him. Although it does sound harsh.
Take as many naps as you need take as much as you need, DO NOT worry about him, birth is a time when the man should step up without question.
Ok, so I finally turned on the computer to make it easier to type such a long update and beg for advice.
OW was sent screenshots (not by me)of text conversation with H flirting like crazy with another person. She kicked him out on Sunday. H stayed the night sunday at my house (I was at the hospital with Lillian) and then on Monday Lillian was released. Monday night H stayed on the couch again.
H has taken a weeks vacation, he goes back to work next Monday. He has just "jumped" back into our lives like he never left. Besides physical affection with me/sleeping on the couch and some cold/sad moods(OW won't talk to him and he keeps texting her that he loves/misses her and begging her to work things out)it's like nothing has changed.
My S8 is crawling into his lap again to watch tv, S13 is asking for help with math homework(yes, his school requires weekly summer online homework)and he is joining us for all activities, even when I tell him I got it covered. He joins us for all meals, and takes the older boys to run errands.....
His conversation with me has ALMOST returned to what it once was, with him asking where I am if I don't come home and texting for no reason at all. Just no sexual conversation. Yesterday he offered to take the boys to basketball but cut his hand as he was leaving so I took them telling him I wanted to get out of the house anyway. Camp is 2hrs and I usually come home inbetween drop off/pick up. Well yesterday I had Lillian with me and was talking to some other moms and didn't come home. After about an hour I get a text asking how Lillian is, ummmmm she is fine it's only been an hour and a half since we left. I responded that she was being social and H wanted to know where we were. Then H asked if I was going to Target and I replied that I might go later after the kids were in bed and he was like 'oh, I kind of wanted to get out of the house'.... well, leave then duh!(didn't say that just thought it)
After dinner I told H I was taking the kids to feed the ducks at the lake downtown(about 15min walk, 5min drive) I got the kids ready and grabbed a loaf of bread. H starts to get in the car too, I told him it was ok I could handle it myself. He said no, it's ok I will go.
Today I had a dr. appointment and H went with. I don't know why as I am not pregnant so it was just making sure I was ok (swelling in my legs/feet and possible high blood pressure but everything is fine)
I told H I was needed to go to Orland Park (little over an hour drive) to get another bra.(too big for regular stores, have to order online or go to speciality store)I said I wasn't going today as they close at 5pm and Lillian had a dr appointment at 3 so I wouldn't make it but I might go tomorrow. H asked if they were open on the weekends and I said yes,and asked why. He said the his mom wanted to visit with Lillian tomorrow at noon. I am ok with that so I told him no problem I will go saturday morning. H has a charity event saturday morning for work, he asked for me to wait til the afternoon so he could go with. I told him it was ok I could handle it and he said no he would go.
Tonight I asked the boys if they wanted to go see How to Train Your Dragon 2 and they did. H started getting everyone ready and again I told him he didn't have to go I could handle it. He said no, it's ok I will go.
He calls me sweetie on a regular basis. I make sure to not say it back.
When I first asked him if he wanted to go to Day out with Thomas he agreed and I told him that it was a long drive and asked if he wanted to stay the night before. He said no, he didn't care how early we had to leave. Today he brings up the topic and asks me if we should get a hotel room.
OW sent me a text this morning "I am so sorry"
Here are my concerns/problems/what should I do/just give me some advice PLEASE
H wants OW back/he still loves her. If she were to call right now he would be in her bed before I could even shut the door behind him.
I am afraid that the boys will be hurt again by him "coming home" and then leaving.
I am hurt that he is fighting for her/their relationship when he didn't even open his mouth to tell me anything was wrong much less fight for our family.
I know I will be hurt when he leaves again.
I am afraid I will start wanting the physical affection (which he sure as hell doesn't show any signs of wanting)
Sweetie, all I'll say is:
1. Accept his help as long as you need it and are emotionally able to do so without becoming attached to him/his behavior.
2. See how OW is acting toward your H?
3. See how your H is pining over her?
4. Any more questions?
*If* your H is ever going to come around (and that's a BIG "if"), it's going to be when YOU drop the rope (as OW apparently has) and HE does some serious work on himself. My fear is that, considering his history, even if he's acting "like normal" at home, it's just a matter of time before you're right back where you were. History tends to repeat itself when what CAUSES the history is not addressed and changed. It's HIS to change. Nothing YOU do will create change in him. But you may be able to *influence* his change by dropping the rope and not denying him the dignity of his own struggle. Give that to him.
Hugs to you and the kids.
Sweetie, all I'll say is:
1. Accept his help as long as you need it and are emotionally able to do so without becoming attached to him/his behavior.
2. See how OW is acting toward your H?
3. See how your H is pining over her?
4. Any more questions?
*If* your H is ever going to come around (and that's a BIG "if"), it's going to be when YOU drop the rope (as OW apparently has) and HE does some serious work on himself. My fear is that, considering his history, even if he's acting "like normal" at home, it's just a matter of time before you're right back where you were. History tends to repeat itself when what CAUSES the history is not addressed and changed. It's HIS to change. Nothing YOU do will create change in him. But you may be able to *influence* his change by dropping the rope and not denying him the dignity of his own struggle. Give that to him.
Hugs to you and the kids.
This. ^^^Starsky
My fear is that the kids will get hurt. That is why I am not so sure about allowing him to help and join in family activities.
I plan on leaving him with the twins (I can't leave Lillian anyway) in the evening and doing whatever I want even if it just means going to a park and sit in the cast and read.
I can ask him to leave but can't force him to legally. And yes, I am a wimp and feel badly he has no where to go.
So yesterday after H's family left (which was a very nice relaxing afternoon grilling out) he tried to kiss me. I backed away and said I didn't want to get hurt.
On our way to Day out with Thomas (over 3hr drive) I asked him why he tried to kiss me. He said it was out of comfort, that his feelings have not changed he doesn't love me.
I saw a text from him to OW begging her to go to therapy with him to work things out.
What a POS!
Stand tall and stand firm, twin.
Thanks, I am trying very hard.
Kinda journaling but if anyone wants to throw their 2 cents in I am very open to that.
I feel like I am starting at square one. On one hand I want to ask him to leave. I am so angry at him for what he is doing but on the other hand I want him to get help and to save our family. I do love him but I think a lot of my issues are really with me.
I feel like I am not worthy enough, I feel like why is he begging her to go to therapy with him but had no desire to do so to save our marriage? Why am I not good enough for him? These are the questions that keep running through my mind.
We had a good time at Day out with Thomas. The kids had a blast and there were lots of smiles. We hardly ever fight, that's never been a problem with the two of us. I think H is so conflict avoidant that he just goes along with whatever I want or ignores me if he doesn't want to do something.
I have already fallen for him emotionally again, it's just a matter of putting up a false front until I can gain back the steps of progress I had made in detaching.
I know it's supposed to be easier to DB with H at "home" but he has already seen and acknowledged my 180's and said how wonderful they are but it changes nothing for him.
We discussed the topic of divorce again, he had brought it up at the dr office on Wednesday, talking to the baby telling her he didn't want to put her in daycare and doesn't she want to stay home with mommy........
H says that I "jumped the gun" with filing and he doesn't want to finalize things for a while. He won't give me a time frame though. I am trying hard not to read into these comments.
Last night H tried to be intimate (obviously not sex, but darn close) I don't want to fall for his games and as soon as we got home tonight I took out my copy of The Solo Partner to reread the chapter on pursuit. I need to be reminded of the rules.
I don't know if asking him to leave is the right thing, how do you "go dark" with him living here? I know I need to as it's destructive to my own mental health to engage with him. I know one text from her and he is gone so DETATCH is the name of the game.
Do I tell him that I only want to talk if it's about the kids? Do I just leave and not make myself available?
Do I stay in my room for the evening?
Going to reread DB and The Marriage Remedy. Anything to keep me from falling into his games.
Wow that must be tough, but trains right.
Stick to your guns, would you let a person you hardly knew grab you and make out?
I would back away, as gracefully as you could.
I have no advice on being dark while together, maybe dim? Is the option.
H just took the twins for a haircut at the mall. He asked me to go with, it took a lot to say no. Baby steps for me right now. This morning I stayed in my room till Lillian woke up to eat which was about 10 min before H left for a work/charity event. I didn't speak to him.
He sent me a text about the event (just making small talk) I didn't resound.
He sent a text asking if 2pm would be ok for haircuts. I responded immediately yes.
He sent another text talking about the event and telling me what time he would be leaving. I didn't respond.
He called on his way home, I answered and was very quiet/didn't elaborate on any of my answers. He asked me if I was going with him and I said no. It was a short conversation.
I kept myself busy while he was here, I fed the twins lunch and got them ready to go. Then I went in my room.
I feel like I need to hold myself accountable for every interaction right now
your ex is a serial cheater...he obviously even cheated on the OW with someone else
I think this goes beyond any sort of DB saving your marriage kind of thing
You need to save yourself and your kids....
he will not change unless he wants to and he clearly doesn't want to
Yes. You have to ask yourself...if you "win" him back, what have you won? A serial cheater that you will continually be looking over your shoulder, waiting for the next bomb drop.
Get a clear image in your mind of what a truly remorseful husband would look like. Someone who would go to IC, marriage counseling, give you access to his phone and email etc. . Don't settle for less. And don't hold your breath.
I'm all about saving marriages and families, twin. I'm all about forgiveness. For your own sake.
But your H is not worthy of you or your efforts. Not right now.
I think the question is: what makes you think or feel that he's all you deserve? Don't you know you deserve better? Because you do.
Hugs
Twin Mom,
Congratulations on the baby! I hope she is doing well.
Let's see...how can I say this....Your h is a mega tool. He got kicked out so he's trying to eat cake with a quadruple layer of frosting, ice cream and whipped cream. He is taking advantage of you and that is way wrong. Yes, he should help you. However, trying to roll up on you after cheating and lying to you is vile. Not to mention he did all of this while you were pregnant!!!
He would have to do serious work on himself and it doesn't sound like he has the skills nor desire to do this. He just needs a place to stay since OW kicked him out. Take care of yourself and the kids.
I know everyone is right. He really is not a good person. He is not what I thought I would choose for myself or to be the father of my children. But I am embarrassed that I am not even good enough in his eyes. I know there were things that I wasn't happy with during our marriage but it seems as though the only changes needed were with me.
He was not willing to go to ic/mc for me but he IS willing to do it now to get HER back. That right there is the most hurtful thing ever.
First off, really really glad Lillian is improving and Social Services is resolved.
Secondly, nobody should ever expect to have sufficient control in labor and delivery to DB with the baby's father. Give yourself a break. You behaved the way a woman in labor behaves. That was right and true and it's ok.
tell you the truth, you sound a lot nicer than some of us do while we are in labor...I mean, I recall a few harsh words at my h when he 'rubbed me the wrong way!!" and that, unfortunately, is an actual example. And we were not doing any DBing then!
you have issues to work on for sure, but THIS^^ labor behavior, is just NOT one of them, sweetie.
Thirdly, you have a newborn baby. Recover, bond with her, take comfort in her. Whatever happens or doesn't with you H is temporary compared to that.
More hugs, more prayers, more support for you. Be well and find peace.
this^^^
Oh dear. Please stick to your guns on this.
He is a POS. He is using you , his post partum wife, with hormones all over for HIS needs with no regards to your feelings.
He is a serial cheater and a liar. He lied to his ex wife, he has lied to you, and he lied to OW. He's got serious issues. And who knows if he has an STD?
DBing in this case should be for you, not him, because he has serious issues he desperately needs to fix. And he hasn't even come close to attempting it.
To me, right now what he is trying to do is disgusting. Please don't give into it. You are a strong woman, you can do this. Keep it to the the kids.
this^^^
Also, instead of going to "couples" therapy with OW,
to whom he's NOT married(!!), why not suggest he get his a$$ to a therapist for himself?
Does he know that you now know you were an OW too? God, what a weak little man with a huge character flaw.
So sorry Twin.....so so sorry.
Oh, I posted on your other thread but then saw Lillian's troubles at the start, (the CPS thing might have thrown me over the edge so I say BRAVO to you x 1000)
and I was worried. I see that you are in "phase 2" of this now.
Thank God you are both alright!
Yes, he knows that I know. Any conversations are about my flaws and how I have changed but that he still doesn't love me. I am trying to avoid any and all conversations right now.
At this point I think I want to "win" him back so he will get help. Even if I do decide to divorce him anyway I want him to get help.
Annnnnnnnnnnd, he asked to "slow down" the divorce...
Is now the time to demand ic for him?
Sounds tough twin, but some of these men just seem so broken its hard to know what is the right thing. Unless they want to work on change its unlikely to work or to change.
Twin mom,
Even if your h went to IC, he would have to be honest (something he clearly struggles with) and be willing to do the work. Otherwise, it's a waste of money. I know some folks who have been going to IC for years and have no movement. It's because they can't handle those 2 requirements.
twin,
Are you really comfortable making demands anyway? Demands have implied ultimatums: "Do this ... or ELSE."
Would you have what it takes to carry out the "or else"?
Because let's face it: you can make all the demands you want. And he can say no. Anddddd ... you're allowing him to live with you while - right in front of your face - he is trying to work things out with the woman with whom he cheated on you ... while you were carrying his child.
Not trying to be harsh, but he wants to slow down on the divorce because he clearly can't be alone. He overlaps all his relationships. He's telling you that you are Plan B. You know, in case OW doesn't work out.
You deserve better. Treat yourself better than he's treating you.
Run, Twinmim. Run very fast. He's a POS.
There will come a day when little Lillian will need you to reach her how Mamabear protects herself and her cubs. You may as well learn to start now.
Starsky
The only way IC works, in my view, is if you walk in and say "I accept that I have problem X, I know it's negatively impacting the people around me, and I want you to help me develop and implement a plan to fix this problem."
Anything short of that will only give him the excuse to say "I tried."
So demanding IC for him isn't what you want. He can fake his way through that.
What you want is him to recognize that he has a problem, and that he cares enough about you to want to fix it.
From all indications, that is going to be a very tall order for your H. He doesn't seem that connected with the consequences of his actions beyond himself. Unfortunately, you can't force anyone to recognize their flaws, let alone take responsibility for them.
Accepting anything less on your part though is just setting unrealistic expectations, and we know disappointment follows that.
I told him that he needs to move out, that he has issues he needs to work through on his own before I even THINK about delaying the divorce much less there be a chance for anything between us.
I told him that once he realizes his issues a good ic would be beneficial.
Bravo, twinmom. That is self respect. Doesn't that feel GREAT!
Way to go. I'm sure it's hard to face that but you did the right thing. Hugs to you!
High five, twin!
YOU will be okay, mama. Trust that.
Wisdom from zew... ^^^^
(Is there a place we we can start a "BEST OF" quotes/posts that appear on this board?
There are so many wonderful things being said, and although I cut and save the ones I find, it's too hard to keep up with them all. )
I have read your thread, twinmom.
You have my utmost respect and my support as well.
I can't begin to imagine what you are going through.
---GG
Bravo, twinmom. That is self respect. Doesn't that feel GREAT!
Much as I hope it does feel great, something tells me Twin, that YOU do not feel great. I think you are terrified of being divorced with 5 kids, and I DO understand that. (I swear I do).
But imo, there is a much worse scenario...staying with this man as he is now. Or anywhere near what he's like now. He's a terrible example for your sons and daughters to see as a man/mate. Don't let this cycle repeat.
What evidence is there that he's willing OR able to change? iS there any?
Twin, him SAYING he wants to "slow down the divorce", is hardly a serious commitment to deep personal reflection, coupled with courageously facing of one's character flaws...and then making the needed changes.
I cannot imagine even trying to reconcile with him in the next year.
And if his pattern continues (why wouldn't it?) that is far too long for him to not have a woman on his arm. Any woman...really.
So back to the first question, what evidence is there that he's willing or able to really change?
Run, Twinmim. Run very fast. He's a POS.
There will come a day when little Lillian will need you to reach her how Mamabear protects herself and her cubs. You may as well learn to start now.
Starsky
YES...and from a legal perspective, what advantages are there to staying with him? If adultery is a ground for divorce in your state, then taking him back means 'condonation" and you'd have to catch him again cheating to use it. Not that you should use that but I DO believe in knowing your legal rights.
For now I would not forget the text messages about your bad mothering, and how you trapped HIM with the pregnancy, etc.
Twin, I preach forgiveness a lot around here. I don't know how to stay married without each partner doing a lot of it. And in time, there would be some "amnesia" exercises for you two to really reconcile.
But there are times when too much water has gone under the bridge and then, I'm not saying you cannot or must not forgive...but I DO SAY
that a heck of a lot of work on his end, needs to be done and over enough time, --- before I'd THINK of reconciling.
For now, accept all the child care help you can get from him, and all the child support too. That belongs to the kids...
but also give yourself 5 MINUTES to think about the types of things you would really need from him to earn back the trust, and how long that effort would take,
Now, can you honestly see him even trying to do those^^? Won't he take the path of least resistance?
I think he has a pattern that shows he prefers starting fresh every time a relationship takes work. And ALL relationships take work.
Your h reminds me of someone who prefers getting a new car, instead of learning how to change the spark plugs and oil in the car he was driving...and never learning what the blinking red lights mean...
Just my .02
Twin, Big hugs to you, and your babies.
spot on 25
I was married to a bad bad man. He cheated on me several times (which I didn't know about until much later) I was the OW in his marriage (which I also did not know about until I divorced him)
I loved him...or rather...who he said he was. I was in love with who he said he was and who I wanted him to be
The actual toad he is, was much different than the person I thought he was.
I believed I deserved it
that I must suck hardcore
he even tried to move his OW into our house with us (telling me she was a battered woman...well...girl, she was so young)
and when his world came crashing down and mine did not, boy did he try calling me back and sweet talking me
but
I had worked on me
and I knew I was worth so much more
I was
strong
beautiful
smart
courageous
caring
loving
and so far above the person I was that "needed" him
I was whole, all on my own
I felt like a failure in the beginning...He was my 2nd marriage, I felt like he defined masculinity to me and he was so unwilling to work on things with me...he called me ugly and stupid and old (he was older, by the way) He preyed on all my insecurities
And...when he called me, after a year and was saying how wrong he was and how he had made a mistake and how he wanted me back and how he would do anything...that I was his soul mate and completed him...I only hesitated for a second
long enough for me to inhale and exhale before I told him absolutely not and to lose my number
I didn't engage in any asking why...why he cheated, why he lied to everyone and told them I was cheating on him, why he lied about everything...
Because his whys had nothing to do with me and everything to do with him
he doesn't cheat because of you
he cheats because of him
and if he lies to you about cheating, what makes you think he would really go to counseling for her? He is a liar
You need to remember that you are more than his lies...you are more than that...what would you say to your daughter if she came to you in the same situation? What would you say to your sons? What kind of men do you want them to be?
Listen to this ^^^.
That's an invaluable voice of experience.
My 1st H (my big girls' dad) was also a POS. At 20 years old with two kids, I thought my life and "love life" were over when he left me high and dry. Fig's words literally just brought me to tears. (Thank you for sharing that part of your life, fig.)
twin, listen to these people. I know you are hurting so badly right now. You must feel so lost and alone and confused.
But you are better and stronger than you know right now. You proved that today. Hang tight, knowing the best is yet to come for you and your sweet babies.
You're a remarkable mom, and you're doing what goes against YOUR current feelings for what you KNOW is in their greater good. People don't find a better momma than that.
Thinking of you often and much ...
25, your right it doesn't feel good. I feel horrible right now. Lonely, sad and just hurting. I do things because mentally I know it is the right thing to do but emotionally I hate it.
I want nothing more than to bury myself in his arms and make the pain go away (for the moment)
I will keep going because I know it's what I have to do.
H is taking the day off work Thursday to take the twins to the zoo with his parents. He invited me to come with.
God I want to go so badly, (love taking the kids these kind of places)
It's killing me to stay home alone with Lilly :-(
Twin:
Thank God and praise Him for your blessings. When things slow down for you, GAL and don't stop the divorce process girlie. I ditto Figgeroni. Wow. Many of us know that these S (H & W) have many of the situations and you need to focus on healing yourself and be the best parent you can be. You can't depend on that H of yours. When he crashes he may not be able to be there for any of you and you will be the one holding the F together. In the meantime, accept his help, if little or not, and plan on being a mother and a great friend to other women/moms you should find out there to relate with when you don't have the children and you do have the children. You need a strong support group. Not just us DBing bloggers.
H is taking the day off work Thursday to take the twins to the zoo with his parents. He invited me to come with.
God I want to go so badly, (love taking the kids these kind of places)
It's killing me to stay home alone with Lilly :-(
You sure about the fantasy you are creating here? You are post partum, you want to bring a NEWBORN to the zoo? With the twins...? Hmmm...yeah I'm not sure you are being realistic
And if your plan was to have a babysitter, I have to say that leaving the baby at home the first month often is harder than we expect...we call every hour, we feel distracted and we are TIRED...God, I think you're brilliant to stay home with Lilly.
When I think back on how I felt when I had our children, it gets fuzzy b/c of extreme sleep deprivation, and feeling some physical pain too.
If I were you, and if I could, I'd want a baby sitter AND then
I'd take a 1) bath, AND OR 2) a Nap... or maybe get a massage/your hair done.
Just shaving my legs was a real effort that first month..
Give that some thought and adapt to whatever breaks you may get. Take them!
We took the twins to Day out with Thomas last Friday. When the twins were born I think they were 5 or 6 days old when they visited Navy Pier children's museum with their brothers.....
I just put the baby (or babies) in a Moby wrap and go. I can nurse while they are wrapped so it's no big deal.
quote=25yearsmlc]
H is taking the day off work Thursday to take the twins to the zoo with his parents. He invited me to come with.
God I want to go so badly, (love taking the kids these kind of places)
It's killing me to stay home alone with Lilly :-(
You sure about the fantasy you are creating here? You are post partum, you want to bring a NEWBORN to the zoo? With the twins...? Hmmm...yeah I'm not sure you are being realistic
And if your plan was to have a babysitter, I have to say that leaving the baby at home the first month often is harder than we expect...we call every hour, we feel distracted and we are TIRED...God, I think you're brilliant to stay home with Lilly.
When I think back on how I felt when I had our children, it gets fuzzy b/c of extreme sleep deprivation, and feeling some physical pain too.
If I were you, and if I could, I'd want a baby sitter AND then
I'd take a 1) bath, AND OR 2) a Nap... or maybe get a massage/your hair done.
Just shaving my legs was a real effort that first month..
Give that some thought and adapt to whatever breaks you may get. Take them! [/quote]
"no big deal"? Okay, so you're a Super mom, and or some sort of Frontierswoman.
I still say, try to be gentle with yourself.
You don't really NEED to do things like take a newborn to, well, actually, to
anywhere at this point.
I'm also suggesting that you not create expectations of yourself (or fantasize about things based on hope alone),
b/c I think you're setting yourself up for a fall. And I relate to that.
Just so you know, when I was in law school, it was hard, AND in my last year, I began working on Capitol Hill. Then I learned we were expecting our first child,
(5+ years before we "planned".)
I worked as hard as I could before the baby because I "heard they take up energy"...
I had to take a subway really far into the city and even in the winter, and walk some icy streets. Then I began the bar review course at night, and of course, I* was still in law school with a full schedule, which most married people did NOT do. I was also job hunting. That got a tad harder when I began to show...
My "plan" was to finish law school in May,
have the baby in June,
take the bar exam in July and
start my new job in August.
My h was so proud of me, he told everyone the "Schedule"...and it sounded great to ME too...
I was a fool. Why did I set myself up that way?
By April I was so exhausted that I'd fall asleep by 8pm, and I could NOT study for all my classes. So I failed an exam and could not graduate on time (too few credits).
I was so floored, embarrassed and so very sad! But I was also resilient and
my favorite law professor said the most helpful things:
"So You'll finish law school in December (6 months less of being a lawyer) and
then do the rest, so that means the first 9 months of your baby's life, you will be at home with your new baby.
What a blessing that was, forcing me to SLOW DOWN.
But I was a slow learner! I repeated this type of insane schedule for my 2nd pregnancy...working full time in the military as a JAG Corps officer, (oops, there's a war! Let's turn our lives upside down...)
and my h was in medical school, with unrelenting hours, and so I kept going full time with a trial schedule and a baby at home and one on the way...
I ruptured a disc in my lower back, pregnant, so no surgery was authorized for me until after the baby and it hurt a lot...it also sidelined me except at work b/c of course, I KEPT WORKING...so then I got pneumonia. Then I went into premature labor and was hospitalized for the pneumonia and the premature labor was medically delayed... and my OB/GYN said the most insightful thing...
"not sure why you think you have to have it all,
at the same time, but this is your body's way of telling you to STOP! Go take care of your body, & baby, or you may literally kill yourself" --
We do this trying to live up to some belief, like that commercial where the great looking woman is sexy & brilliant and earns a big salary, walking in her pretty home with her brief case --she's wearing heels and perfect make up, with a TIGHT but somehow professional looking suit, with long wavy hair)
(Insert music from 1980s commercial) 
"she's cooking up the bacon, frying it up in the pan,
never letting HIM forget he's a MAN... because she's a woman, W-O-M-A-N!!!"
I tried to play Superwoman. It worked for some years, but gosh I was tired. And frankly, I found it very unrewarding...at times downright unhealthy.
Sometimes I think we women (and society??) overcompensated for women being held back in previous generations, like my mom's.
In your case Twinmom, all I can think is that your h demands so much attention from a woman (and sadly, maybe, from
any woman...)
that the more you take on by yourself, the less likely you'll have time to focus JUST on him, 100%.
NO I AM NOT blaming you for ANY of his choices...because he's selfish and deceitful and btw, this is a pattern for him...and while
WE all "get" that -- babies need more attention than grown men... I fear that
your h does not.
PLEASE Delegate -and Be so very kind and gentle ---- to YOU.
You and your babies deserve that.
And just FYI from a medical standpoint -
If a newborn under 2 mos of age gets a fever - even a little one - they need a spinal tap and a whole sepsis workup. An argument can be made for NOT exposing your newborn to too many people until they're safely past that 2 month point, to minimize the risk that they'll have to undergo a spinal tap for a garden-variety cold.
25 I think your right. My h loves the attention and the more I try and do on my own the less energy I have for him. Right now I guess I am not supposed to be giving him ANY attention.
I told him this morning that he needs to move out, that I can't do this roommate thing. In an email later this afternoon I explained myself a little better and ended it by saying IF he decided he wanted our marriage that we could discuss that later but that I was worth more than being plan B.
And just FYI from a medical standpoint -
If a newborn under 2 mos of age gets a fever - even a little one - they need a spinal tap and a whole sepsis workup. An argument can be made for NOT exposing your newborn to too many people until they're safely past that 2 month point, to minimize the risk that they'll have to undergo a spinal tap for a garden-variety cold.
Not saying there isn't a risk but have you ever seen or used a Moby wrap? The baby is wrapped so close to you, head facing your chest they aren't "exposed" to anyone else. I nurse in the wrap and changed her diaper in the car. She is exposed to more germs at the Dr office when I take her for well baby visits.
So I have now asked h to move out 3 times and he ignores me.. He acknowledgs what I am saying to him but then acts like I never said anything.
Legally I can't make him leave, do I let out go or get more confrontational about it and basically not stop till he leaves?
Sorry, twinmom, to read your story.
You really are a trouper!
I wish I had something helpful to say, but all I can offer are my warm thoughts of support for all you're going through.
Keep hanging in there, I know it's rough.
---GG
How about having another adult in the room the next time you ask him to move out?
Pack his things change the locks?
I'm guessing that would be action vs talking of the cheeseless tunnel? Which hasn't worked so far
I don't believe it is legal to change the locks on him at this point. But I think having another adult in the room when you tell him he really has to move, then puts some pressure on him not to look like a wuss by staying.
Packing might show serious intent too, and it's about actions to show your words mean something. With another adult it could work, same way the ow threw his stuff to the curb.
So what have you decided to do twin? Is another adult going to come be witness to your instruction to move out? Make sure when you address him about it that you don't form it like a request or a hard demand. It's an instruction. You are doing this not as a punishment to him as much as it's to protect yourself and your heart from further damage from him. Simple? NO. Necessary? YES!
Good luck.
I explained to him this isn't an easy decision but it's too protect myself and the kids from getting hurt again when he decides to walk away. He actually got angry and said it's his house too and he pays for it. I remained calm and explained that he walked out and this house isn't a hotel.
His mom will be here Thursday, I will talk to her about it.
He has been coming in my room every morning and kissing me good bye (I am half asleep). Otherwise he hasn't tried to kiss me in a few days.
Whoa! Full stop.
Do not talk to his mother about it! This has nothing to do with her and, trust me, blood is thicker than water. She will jump to his side at some point even if she is sympathetic to you. Do not drag family members into your R, it only leads to more heartache.
Second.....lock your door! He can't come in and disturb you in the morning if he can't access your room.
Do you have any way to move out of the house yourself? If he refuses to leave and is throwing the 'I pay for it' at you then you are left with only one option and that is to take your kids and leave. If this means being homeless, then there is no way you can do that. If this means finding an inexpensive apartment that may even be too small for all of you, it may be the difference in keeping your sanity.
Twinmom, I'm sorry your H is treating you so disrespectfully. Really sorry.
Don't bring his mom into it. You need someone not connected who he will respect.
I am right outside Chicago so even a small apartment would run me $1500 with electricity and water each month. Can't swing that and the moving/all the kids crammed into a small place/no yard would make me go crazy.
There is no adult that 1. Would not scream at H to get out 2. That he respects besides his family.
The reason why he has access to my room is because for now he has been helping with the baby. He will get up with her during the night and brings her to me to nurse during the night and when he leaves for work he brings get cradle into my room and puts it next to my bed so I don't have to get up till the twins are up.