I have been reading and monitoring the boards fpr some time, I have posted on her before.
I truly believe my W is having an affair, She got a new cell phone through her mother and I don't have access to it. on 2/13/14 My w came home announcing she filed for divorce, took her rings off and had the new phone, she stated it was because I was too controling, took her for granted, drank to much and had a strained relationship with her son.
I admitt to all of it. I have completely changed all of these things, My w has noticed and even called me a fantastic man, however to little to late, I have been DB for a little over a month and I have had some really good interactions with W.
W came home one night around 11:30pm usualy gets home around 5:30 and said she workd late however went right into the shower smelled like a weird smoke from a fire place. She didn't work late because I drove to a store near her work and she wasnt there. I confrontedher and simply said if your seeing someoneits not a deal breaker and she said she worked late, I then said well i drove by and you werent there, she then got really defensive and stated now your stalking your wife and she said she was done with the conversatin I did continue she the said she went to a bar with some girls from work. She didnt want me to see hr getting out of the shower and I noticed a really weird scratch on her hip almost like some lines from something, maybe a watch or braclet. she saidi dont't know how it happned. I then let it go. and she became a little nicer towards me. I smelled this same smoke smell on her the aturday before when she said she was at her girlfriends house cleaning from noon to 12:45 am and we got home around the same time she went right into the shower. she never does this. since these to occurences I havent smelled the smoke again.
I believe she has gone into a deeper hiding with it. I did come early from work yesterday around 11pm and heard her laughing in the bedroom, she didn't know I was home and when I went into the room she immediately had herphone under the covers hitting buttons to end the call, she asked your home early and I said what are you laughing at and she said what, i said what are you doingwith your phone, she said I was talking with GF, I said you just hung up on and never said bye, yes I did in a angry voice. I again told her this is not adeal breaker and asked again she got real defensive. I changed the subjectreal fast and of course she calmed down, this is common when someone lies, the focus comes off andthey follow the new question, a person not lying would go back to the original question. weended up in an argument with her blaming me for all my wrong doings and I agreed with her, and told her I was sorry etc... See she won't admit it and puts blame on me. I know when she talks with him she aks really nice to me for that day etc..
I think I blew all my chances with getting back with her, I think this argument pushed her right into his arms. See w wants me to keep quit and not tell anyone about our divorce pending. I only have maybe another 6 days to pull this off but she is pushing me for the house equity etc.. so she can get out and be on her own with her son.
I need some expert advice her. I plan to continue DBing, I have done good she even cried one day that it looked like I was fine etc..
I sent her anpology for last night and all my wrong doings and she sent me this "I know you are sorry. I appreciate that you recognize all this...I just wish it didn't take me filing for a divorce to get you there. I accept your apology and I forgive you. I need to so that I can heal. I hope for the best for you."
I sent back I can only pray for us both and let God have his will with this.
a few days ago she was sobbing in my arms and all I did was hold her. She has told me she doesn't trust the changes and fears I will go baack to the way I was.
I was married before and I cheated On my first W, I know how torn I was inside with guilt but all i did was follow my heart, what a bad move that was then. Its Jerimieh 17:9 "the heart is more deceitful than anything else, and it will pursue what feels right at the moment"
She told me last night that she will have to call her lawyer and tell him that I'm harrasing her. Because I asked if she's having an affair.
I have about 40 to 60 days left until the divorce is final. we don't have children together.
Is your current W the one that you cheated on your first W with?
Is your current W the one that you cheated on your first W with?
I was going to ask this very same thing. Beat me to it, Bond.
I cheated on my first wife.
We get that, but our question is, was your current W the one you had the A with?
No. I met her my w now who I believe is having an affair, 2 years after I was divorced.
I just confirmed the affair, I had picked up a digital voice recorder and put in our bedroom and heard his voice which was a man suprising how that picked him up.
I listen to this conversation and it started out about how was work etc... hows son etc... and there is a code name for me FG because she was on the phone with me when son asked if FG was being a D, and W asked whats a D he said a Douch. They laughed. They then went into the conversation About the settlement agreement w and I had last night when she called me. She actually was wanting me to give her my agreement in five minutes, I said I would need some time to process this and get back with her and of course she got mad, and I said I would rather stay married and she said she had to go. anyways she tells him about this and she says he says he dont want a D and she told him I'm giving you one and she laughs, she tells him if it wornt for her we wouldnt have any of this first of all I make double the money and she was great with finances, we never argued over it. She then gets in her soft voice with him and she says oh yes I desrve it and will take it and the she calls him a coocoo she did the same thing to me when I would tell her what i'm going to do to her sexually. I could actually her his voice. She did ask him when he went through his D did they agree on everything. So not sure if he is still going through it or if its done etc... it amazed me on how it was all about me, but then again I remember when I had my affair I did the same thing vented with the new girl and the new girl pressured me to get D.
I just don't know who he is, I'm actually a bit relieved that I found this out and I'm not going crazy, like she wants me to believe. I'm wondering how long this has been going on. Now I see why she wants this done so fast. She even tol OM that he is taking in all this drama and she said something like your suppose to listen to me. So how long is this thing going to last and do I expose it to family and friends etc... like on marriage builders says to.
I just can't believe she is doing this,and if you met her you would never suspect it. I have been working afternoons shift for over a year and I now look back it played a significant roll on our M.
She goes out every weekend and now I know why she got mad at me when I subscribed to familywhere on tmobile which shows eachother our phone locations, I like the idea nice safety thing for daughter who is 11.
So not much I can do at this point, I'm going to continue my DB ways and continue to work on me. I did let w know that infidelity was not a deal breaker for me.
It amazes me how they re-write history and say it was all big mistake getting married. I did the same thing to my exw when I had the affair, told the new girl how we should of never gotten married it was for all the wrong reasons etc...
I woke up one day and told myself I will never ever cheat on another person in my life, due to the pain it caused my EXW and the 9 years of pain it caused me in the relationship with the women I cheated with. I carried that pain the whole relationship with other women, I have know idea why I did. I do know the ow was 10 years younger than me and im sure that played a roll, plus my own insecurities.
My w is now on this ride and she now has to go through her journey. God spoke to me a few times. The first he had me go to church and I didn't know which church the cathloic one or this new assembly of God that just opened near me. I wavered with my Daughter back and forth almost turning around and I decided the the assembly God one. I pull up and they are having amarriage confrence, we go in and the scripture was all about fighting for your family, Nehemiah 4:14b Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes." I was amazed he told me to fight, so I have been DBing and she was on the fence and now it seems she has jumped to the other side.
God spoke to me a second time. W called me tuesday because she forgot her lunch and work jacket at home and asked if i could bring it to her, I sid sure, I put alitle stationary card in her lunch and it said The little things in life make the big things in life. I wrote in it W(name) Have a great day with smiley face Love (name). along with a cofee. I meet her in the lobby and she smiling like usuall and she seemed akward and seems like she wants to give me a hug and she says I hate this lobby, ay other time we would of been in the fire stairs kissing. I leave and she calls me ten min later that was so sweet you got me that card and coffee. I tell her thank you. She then says didn't you feel akward at my work I said no not really, obvisouly she did not, I'm not sure how many people not situation or if OM. So we chat for a second and then I let her go. She then calls me back again telling me she doesn't know how to take the card and coffee, she then says she just wants to run away from all of it, I suggest maybe we need to seperate and she goes on to say "I have to follow my Heart" I tell her we need to take our anger and resentment and put it in an envelope and put it away for awhile and focus only positive things she says who told you to do that, I said I've done some reading etc.. she then continues to say I don't know if I can and says again "I have to follow my heart" we end the call. I go into the book store and go to the spirtual books I look and look and then I see the love dare book, I pick it up and sit down I read the first page and in it says Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than anything else", and it will pursue what feels right at the moment. I didn't think to much about it it until later on, I said oh my God he just told me she is pursuing her heart and its not your fault H(name). I then go and read Matthew 14:29 on peters faith, I continue to read into Matthew 15:17,18&19and one again "for out of the heart comes evil thought-murder,adultrey,sexual immorality,etc.." So God is telling me. I just don't know how to continue thcan get is fight especially after hearing herconversation with OM.
I do have to say W does have anxiety issue that gets real bad at times, she is constantly putting herself down, low selfesteem,and she is ocd with cleaning etc.. I have never stopped loving her even with her imperfections,
I continue to pray to God for his wisdom and his will.
So what do I do and what is my course of action?
need some help.
"It amazes me how they re-write history and say it was all big mistake getting married. I did the same thing to my exw when I had the affair, told the new girl how we should of never gotten married it was for all the wrong reasons etc... "
Some would call this karma.
So since you've been on that side of it, you should know that trying to convince her of anything won't work. What do you think would have worked on you when you were in your A?
How is the relationship with your XW?
I truly believe if my ex would of exposed it and faught harder for me. I would of snapped out of it. I had no faith in God then and I was living a fantasy then. I lived with guilt for 9 years with the A girl. It become coveince and very toxic relationship. I wish I would of seeked counceling for my issues of being alone or abandon as a child. See my w has anxiety, depression and self esteem issues...she needs help. She said she has a great relationship with God. Sorry to say God doesn't like affairs and divorce. I know this affair won't last long. She has a very soft heart and she also is very sensitive. I know she has a ton of guilt. I'm not sure I really know what to do at this point.
"I truly believe if my ex would of exposed it and faught harder for me. I would of snapped out of it."
That never works.
"I had no faith in God then and I was living a fantasy then. I lived with guilt for 9 years with the A girl."
See it all stems from you and selfishness. That's how your W is right now. If you start guilting her or giving her more pressure, she will leave even faster. Plus because you cheated on your first W, your current one can always throw that at your face.
"See my w has anxiety, depression and self esteem issues...she needs help. She said she has a great relationship with God."
You're not her therapist. Stop trying to be one to her.
"Sorry to say God doesn't like affairs and divorce."
Didn't stop you.
"I know this affair won't last long."
I'm sure that's what your first W thought about yours.
"She has a very soft heart and she also is very sensitive. I know she has a ton of guilt."
Mindreading.
"I'm not sure I really know what to do at this point."
You have to let go of what you can't control. Obviously you've see what doesn't work, and despite what you may think, fighting even harder for her won't work.
What were the primary issues that the two of you had in your M?
Didn't have a good relationship with her son. I tried to bond with him and he never would warm up to me.I He doesn't like his dad's w. We did go to counseling with step son about 2 years ago and w stopped because she thought the counselor was to hard on him. My w does every thing for him. She does his hair organizes all his homework and he plays video games from morning to night non stop. so by the time we had time together she was exhausted. She also said I ruled with an iron fist. The rules were never followed. I stopped any discipline a year and a Hal ago.
The second was I was drinking to much which caused me to take her for granted at times. She told me it is ok for me to drink but don't drink to much
I stopped all the drinking two weeks prior to her filing D. I haven't drank since. I have been going to church and it's been what's been saving me..
You're right on everything above its all counter productive. I just have to keep on being the best me.
My w did tell me if she could still pick my daughter up on Fridays because I work afternoons and that's what she doeS now. She would like to keep her for a few days when we're divorced. I have to ask my daughter she is 11-
Should I go dark on her?...just for the record I know what she suffers from and I have never tried to fix her or tell her what was wrong with her. When she would knock herself down I would always try to build her up by telling her how beautiful she is. When she had anxiety I would hold her.
I do love her and I do know she's on her own journey and it's out of my control. I can only control me.
You never answered the question about how your relationship is with your XW.
"Didn't have a good relationship with her son. I tried to bond with him and he never would warm up to me.I He doesn't like his dad's w. We did go to counseling with step son about 2 years ago and w stopped because she thought the counselor was to hard on him. My w does every thing for him. She does his hair organizes all his homework and he plays video games from morning to night non stop. so by the time we had time together she was exhausted. She also said I ruled with an iron fist. The rules were never followed. I stopped any discipline a year and a Hal ago."
It's not his fault. Sorry but that's what happens to kids when their family get broken.
"The second was I was drinking to much which caused me to take her for granted at times. She told me it is ok for me to drink but don't drink to much
I stopped all the drinking two weeks prior to her filing D."
So in other words, you've only stopped your drinking habit for a month. I wouldn't trust your changes either right now.
As for your W's first marriage, what caused the breakup of that one? Did she call it quits or her ex?
I haven't seen my EW in years. we don't have a relationship. I know what happens to kids from divorce. I came from a divorce family. My w called it quits and yes he was drinking. She did tell me he drank a lot more than I ever did and he also was always partying etc..
My w has noticed all my changes and even called me fantastic. She did say she is scared and don't know how long they will last. I told her I understand why she would think that way.
I did get divorced and I made the worst mistake of my life when I divorced my EW. I lived with a lot a pain and that A was a bad R. I stayed for convience and I never felt I worth anything more because my EW was a great wonderful women. I got caught up in the addiction of it. I was so stupid then.
I know this is out of my control. I just know what I am doing now with God in my life and I plan on staying this way for me.
You may not think your XW has anything to do with your current sitch, but believe me she does. Is your D from your first marriage or your affair?
" I lived with a lot a pain"
Despite how much "pain" you thought you were in, it probably didn't compare to what your XW went through.
"I never felt I worth anything more because my EW was a great wonderful women."
And yet you told your girlfriend that your XW was rubbish and that you shouldn't have gotten married.
"I got caught up in the addiction of it. I was so stupid then."
But it didn't make you change. You continued to drink and even drank while in a relationship with your current W who left her XH because of his drinking.
These are the hurdles that you are confronted with. The problem was that you focused so much on her A, that you glossed over your own issues.
Let me just say this I just discovered this A. I was dbing the day she dropped the bomb. I believe this A may have been going on before the D was dropped . I thought something was up but couldn't put my finger on it. I accidentally came across the A. I understand my wrong doings and I'm addressing them for me.
Daughter is from affair. W still wants to pick her up and help with her care while we're divorced.
I know I hurt my XW. I called her after the break up of the affair and apologized for my actions and she forgave me. She did remarry and had children.
I know I made mistakes with my current W and we both are paying the price. I would love to reconcile with my W with us being lead by God. If it doesn't happen I wish her happiness. We both know she is looking for happiness unfortunately she has to have happiness from within not from someone else. We know a lot of people are searching for the right person to fall in love with, when you have to learn to love the person who is imperfect.
"I know I hurt my XW. I called her after the break up of the affair and apologized for my actions and"
So it took you 9 years until you apologized? And you only apologized because your affair didn't quite turn out the way you intended? That's pretty selfish.
"she forgave me."
She had no choice. Plus I'm sure it made you feel better. All selfish and only serves to make YOU feel better.
"I know I made mistakes with my current W and we both are paying the price. I would love to reconcile with my W with us being lead by God."
Sorry if it sounds extremely hypocritical. Especially if you just found God when you thought your W was cheating on you. Doesn't sound sincere. That's why she doesn't trust you.
This plus your record of the affair doesn't show that you won't do the same to her again. I mean, what assurances does she have that you're not going to go back to the way you were if she leaves this new guy?
"unfortunately she has to have happiness from within not from someone else. We know a lot of people are searching for the right person to fall in love with, when you have to learn to love the person who is imperfect."
That really sounds like you're taking the "I'm righteous" approach. Especially since you were the one who had the history of cheating and drinking.
I know it sounds like you're being bashed and to a certain degree, you probably deserve it. However all this contributes to your current situation. Just because you "suddenly" found God doesn't mean that you're better than anyone else and you've got alot of repenting to do. And it especially doesn't mean that just because you've been suddenly enlightened doesn't mean that your W needs to share your newfound faith.
When you tell her stuff like the affair doesn't matter and you'll still take her back, sounds extremely "holier than thou". I'm sure when you were with your XW, you treated her like dirt and blamed everything under the sun on her. That attitude isn't going to serve you well here.
So again, what guarantee does she have that you aren't going to do this again? Have you gone into deep IC? Aside from going to church, what things have you done to try and correct the damage you had caused?
"Let me just say this I just discovered this A."
Yes we all read that.
"I was dbing the day she dropped the bomb."
Which was only a few weeks ago. It wasn't until she was leaving that "suddenly" you learned what you were doing was wrong.
" I believe this A may have been going on before the D was dropped ."
And your bad behavior was going on before the A.
"I thought something was up but couldn't put my finger on it. I accidentally came across the A. I understand my wrong doings and I'm addressing them for me. "
This is where you are wrong. In your case, you really do need to address them for your W and ESPECIALLY for your D. Not you. Everything you've done in your last M and now has been to satisfy YOUR needs and not those of others.
"Daughter is from affair. W still wants to pick her up and help with her care while we're divorced."
Then I feel sorry for your D. She has to live with the fact that she was part of a relationship that destroyed a M. Sounds harsh, but it's true. That's why if you're going to stop drinking and carousing, then you do it for her, not you.
I see your point. I was selfish. I don't want to be selfish and yes I know I said I'm addressing my issues for me which in fact will be for my W and D. I want to be a good husband who is loving and caring to his w and father to his D. I know my wrongs doings. I know what I've done wrong, yes your right it's only been a few weeks which I have made changes, I want to show my W, D and step son they deserve a great loving family. I get your point I have been selfish.
So being that you have this knowledge what do you think is my best course of action?
So being that you have this knowledge what do you think is my best course of action?
"So being that you have this knowledge what do you think is my best course of action?"
....first things first....if I were you I'd get off the booze....that means total abstinence; 24 hours at a time...you may or may not get your wife back; that outcome is uncertain...but I'll tell you what is certain...if you go back to hitting the bottle your life will get worse; MUCH worse in fact.
....I drank and ran around on my first wife; those two behaviors go hand in hand....after 9 years she rightfully dumped me over it and I don't blame her one bit...I told her later she did me a favor because it made me get off the booze...and after I was off the sauce and the fog started to lift; I was glad to be divorced from her...you might feel the same about your run-around wife after you get off the booze too....I've been clean and sober for 34 years and have seen that happen a lot.
....if you don't get help and try to quit on your own; you'll probably go back to drinking....go to AA...it's free and it works.
Good luck!
3/23/2014, I did some investigating and found out who W has been having an affair with, he was on her facebook page, a person who must do some business or was a patient of hers where sh works. when I seen him the first time on the facebook page I thought maybe. You know that gut feeling. I did some more and sure enoug its him. I confronted my W and politely asked her if she was having an affair and of course she said no. I told her I know she is and I have proof. She denied it along with being defensive. It really made me sad. I then noticed all his contact information was removed from his facebook page.
The one thing I don't like is how My W tries to get all friendly and even flirt with me after this conversation. trying to throw me off. I did read when an A is found out it causes it to no longer be a secreat and tends to make it fizzle. I have know idea how long its been going on. I have been working the aftennon shift for a year now. I do remember getting a text from W in last August her telling me that my behavior was suspicious. I reassured her that nothing was going on. Just makes me wonder if she was projecting. The one thing I can say is yes I made mistakes and yes I was selfish, was it all the times no. I seem to always try to connect with her. I remember for the first 4 years of our R we were really a great couple. I know I drank which did cause a problem.
My W asked me about a book that I bought and it was in my drawer, The Love Dare for couples. She asked if she could look at it and what was it about. I gave it to her and she read Day 1, There are 365 days and you read eachone and it gives you a task to do to streangthen your M. She then went and got her Daily pray book and read that prayer, we discussed the bible and I read to her some versus. I bought her almond cookies and she had a huge smile on her face, she said are you trying to win me over with the cookies, I said I have a better chance with this pointing to the bible and she said I kind of laughed and she you have a better chance with the cookies we laughed. I didn't like that, its not funny, I didn't tell her this I thought. I take God and the bible very serious. We had a good faith at one time and we fell away from God and I can tell you this, Our M took a nose dive. I went back to God recently and he has carried alot of this burden and I'm thankful for him. My W told when she dropped the D bomb on me that God had given her the streangth to do it. That is nonsence, God does not want D, I didn't tell her that.
I pray for her everday and that God softners her heart so she can knock them walls down.
You didn't answer my question as to whether or not you waited 9 years until your A broke up that you apologized to your first W. It's important because if it took you that long to apologize to her, what makes you think that your current W will be back any faster?
Right now all the self-righteous behavior isn't going to help much. Neither is all the concentrating on the A itself. Again, you've only been "right with God" for a few weeks. Hardly what most would consider as life-changing.
" I did read when an A is found out it causes it to no longer be a secreat and tends to make it fizzle."
It didn't in your case with your first W. And in fact you probably treated your XW worse when it was outed or you really didn't care about her feelings and just carried on.
What I find interesting in your case is that you were in your current wife's shoes, yet you expect her to act differently. It wasn't that you lost your "faith" along the way of your relationship, it was that you took the relationship for granted and drank. Period. Changes take time and patience. To be honest, these were traits that weren't exactly prevalent in your past. Are you really willing to stick it out for the long haul even if your current W treats you the way you treated your first W? Be honest here.
Yes it took me 9 years to apoligize to my first W once the A ended, I was fobidden to talk to her and I thought abought her an awful lot, I actually felt I was not worthy of her and I didn't deserve her. I felt like I deserved all my pain I had in me. That A was such a horrible internal battle for me.
I began to drink during the end of that A. I used it to make me numb to all of it. I binged drank. When I met My current W she was just unbelievable, we connected and we were inseperable fora very long time. I did drink off and on during my M. When I drank is when I had some issues. I was a jerk at times. The big issue is how I tried so many different ways to connect with her son and he just wouldn't. I let my W handle all the discipline with him the last year and half. she wanted that.
I always wanted a stronger R with God and yes I'm having one now. I know I didn't have one in the past. My changes are going to be permenent. My W really hasn't treated me all that bad. She is a very kind hearted person. I do know after yesterday me telling her I know about OM, she seem to warm up to me and when I say warm up showing some interest, like asking me questions about church and how do I like it actuall conversation. W even was telling me stories when she was a teenager about some church stuf. W was even curious about the Love Dare Book, she asked if she could lok at it and what it was about. We read day one together and read some other bible stuff, so some positive baby steps. I am in it for the long hall I know its only been a short time and I don't have much time left before this is final. So even if we do Divorce I will continue with my change and DBing, How long I don't know, it may even take us getting D. How long will her A last don't know 9 years, I hope not, but you never know. I do believe he is the reason she filed for divorce, I believe he pressured her.
My w has noticed all my changes and even called me fantastic. She did say she is scared and don't know how long they will last. I told her I understand why she would think that way.
Perfect answer.
Starsky
Let me just say this I just discovered this A. I was dbing the day she dropped the bomb. I believe this A may have been going on before the D was dropped .
I would say that's about a 99% certainty. Women
rarely drop the bomb before they've arranged what they at least perceive to be their "safe landing spot."
Starsky
apparently w just came home and found out through someone in my family that I had a recording device in our bedroom, She began to flip the bed around etc.. I know this is not DB principal to snoop, but I had to know what was going on exactly.
I told W yes I did do it and her A is not the main focus of this M falling apart, it had to do with my issues and I did snoop so I can save this M. She then continued to call me crazy etc.. for doing this. I said PI do it and she said thats different. Im like what. She said if there is even a glimmer of hope its gone. W also said I'm bad mouthing her to her to my family, I told her, I will not do that and I haven't done that, I even told my sister that My goal is to save this M. I told W that our M is dead and the only thing left is to divorce or rebuild, I believe sheis taking the Divorce. The weird thing is I got her to calm down, I know she is angry but it will pass.
W did tell me I don't know the whole thing reffering to the A and I said I'm her to listen, not judge or get mad. I explained to her I was in her shoes once, I know what it feels like to have pain knotted in your stomach and not know which way to turn. I reassured her that I played a role in this A, that what was going on or missing in our M did contribute to it. She is worried now on what everyone thinks, I told her that I would be there to defend herif anyone says anything. this was not suppose to have gotten out like this, however it did, now I have to deal with it.
apparently w just came home and found out through someone in my family that I had a recording device in our bedroom, She began to flip the bed around etc.. I know this is not DB principal to snoop, but I had to know what was going on exactly.
I told W yes I did do it and her A is not the main focus of this M falling apart, it had to do with my issues and I did snoop so I can save this M. She then continued to call me crazy etc.. for doing this. I said PI do it and she said thats different. Im like what. She said if there is even a glimmer of hope its gone. W also said I'm bad mouthing her to her to my family, I told her, I will not do that and I haven't done that, I even told my sister that My goal is to save this M. I told W that our M is dead and the only thing left is to divorce or rebuild, I believe sheis taking the Divorce. The weird thing is I got her to calm down, I know she is angry but it will pass.
W did tell me I don't know the whole thing reffering to the A and I said I'm her to listen, not judge or get mad. I explained to her I was in her shoes once, I know what it feels like to have pain knotted in your stomach and not know which way to turn. I reassured her that I played a role in this A, that what was going on or missing in our M did contribute to it. She is worried now on what everyone thinks, I told her that I would be there to defend herif anyone says anything. this was not suppose to have gotten out like this, however it did, now I have to deal with it.
You're taking this WAY too far, in my opinion.
You should simply say "I understand you're angry, and may not agree with everything I'm doing, but understand this: EVERYTHING I'm doing is to try to save our marriage, and our family."
And then leave it.
It's not your job to protect your wife from the consequences of her infidelity, just as you have had to live with the consequences of yours. Should she decide to end her affair and return to the MARRIAGE, however, THEN your position should be "I will defend you to anyone who says anything."
This is what I did, and my wife found me to be just as (if not more) strong in my defense of her decision to try to repair our marriage, as I was in my full-out assault on her affair.
Starsky
P.S. The "Now you've REALLY blown any chance you had" thing is #1 on the Wayward Spouse Hit Parade script, you do know that . . . right? Mine said EXACTLY the same thing when she found the VAR in her car (which I replied with "I have no idea how that got there . . . maybe OM put it there, have you ever considered that? -- always fun to use their own paranoia against them
)
In general, I'm only in favor of snooping when:
- you’re initially trying to confirm an affair;
- as a gathering of evidence for a "cause" legal action of adultery, or to help you make a decision about custody;
- to confirm no-contact, as part of a MUTUALLY-AGREED-UPON transparency plan;
- you are concerned about dissipation of marital assets, or a drug, gambling or alcohol addition, or some other behavior that might prove harmful to the family.
If you can handle it, if you can detach yourself to such an extent that you are more "hovering above" the marriage than emotionally in the MIDDLE of it . . . almost like a "game-playing" mode . . . then the information you can gather is invaluable.
However, if it's only going to serve to beat you down, and defeat you, then it's probably best not to do it.
Starsky
thanks your right, I appreciateyour wisdom starsky, you said you were in a full-out assault on her affair, what do you mean by this?
She is really pissed but she comes in the room and ask me if her shirt is to small, its like wtf, one thing about my W she has been telling me about my changes and notices them. She told me that my D has noticed I stopped drinking and that right there meant alot to me that this 11yr old sees me changing.
I will no longr snoop on this affair, I'm not sure if its going to die or not, if she continues then its on her, I don't have a lot of time beformy D is final, we haveto agree on property settlement. I did notices she grabbed some paperwork of my retirment, annunity and D college fund. She told me she wasn't going after it, but it looks like she might.
W did tell me to get on the phone today and call to have the hous refinanced into my name, she wants it done now or shes going to put the house up for sale. Demanding for sure, I know she is mad. I will not do anything rash, yes we are in divorce proceedings, and I will continue to DB.
I did notices she grabbed some paperwork of my retirment, annunity and D college fund. She told me she wasn't going after it, but it looks like she might.
W did tell me to get on the phone today and call to have the hous refinanced into my name, she wants it done now or shes going to put the house up for sale. Demanding for sure, I know she is mad. I will not do anything rash, yes we are in divorce proceedings, and I will continue to DB.
Assume the best, but PLAN for the worst.
And don't do ANYTHING major (like changing who has title to the house) without first consulting your attorney!!Starsky
thanks your right, I appreciateyour wisdom starsky, you said you were in a full-out assault on her affair, what do you mean by this?
Meaning I believe (as tons of research confirms) that affairs are ADDICTIONS, and the first course of action is to separate the addict from the source of their addiction before anything else meaningful can be accomplished. I also took a very strong legal and financial stance with my wife, while DBing to make myself a much better man and husband.
You can find me story here:
Puppy Dog Tails' posts My username used to be "Puppy Dog Tails" (and "Chocolateeyes" before that). Since there are a TON of posts there, you may want to find May-Aug 2007, as that's when my wife was in the throes of her affair.
Starsky
"MY" story, not "me" story, lol. Wish we had the ability to edit posts!!
Also, I gave you the wrong link -- those are my posts as Chocolateeyes. Here's the correct one:
Puppy's posts Sorry 'bout that.
thanks, I know we are told to believe nothing they say and only 50 percent on what they do. I can tell you her emotions do seem to be all over the place. I will continue with my changes for this family thats for sure, and by the way I have been going to AA through my church.
How do I get the addict seperated from the drug?
The STORM has Begun, W came home and boy is she pissed at me, I had my wedding ring on the dresser after I took a shower and she threw it down the hall way, just so childesh, She flips me off, WOW! her it comes. I'm leaving out for the evening, W sees me getting ready and said to me you got a hot date, I just said yep, and she ask why are wearing new clothes I said I like them. I walked into our Bedroom and she tells me to get out of her bedroom, I replied, its my room also and I walked out. I was just putting some shoes away. She keeps checking my finger to see if I have my wedding ring on, Whats the point in wearing it anymore she doesn't and hasn't worn hers sinse 2/13/14. She was also on the phone witha guy I think a lawyer, I just don't seem to care right now, is that bad of me to think this way. I would love to keep this marriage, but it appears she wants out. Maybe I should send her a text like puppy dog tails poster did, he cut her off and went dark on her. any thougts or imput is great. I appreciate all this help.
Do NOT be the one to leave the marital bed, nor the marital home, WHATEVER you do.
There are very, very few things around here that are near-100% unanimous opinion. This is one of them.
Starsky
//How do I get the addict seperated from the drug?//
You don't. You remove yourself from her life until (and that may be never) she works through her own issues.
Of course that is easier said than done. Personally I failed miserably at it. But with hindsight being 20/20, here are some lessons that I learned the hard way:
1) Ask her to leave and find a new place to live until the affair is over. It is unreasonable to ask you to move out of your bed, or to live with a spouse who is engaged in an affair. If she is unwilling to leave or end the affair, then I would file for D immediately.
You will be told not to give ultimatums. I disagree. At some point, you have to draw a boundary and say "This is something I am not willing to accept". I wish I had the courage to say "I am not willing to live with you while you are engaged in an affair. If you are not willing to end the affair, or move out, then I need to begin the legal process required to enforce this boundary; that legal process is called divorce"
I cannot overstate how emotionally abusive it is to live with someone you love who is actively engaged in an affair. It will create lots of conflict that will counter most of the things you are trying to achieve with DB'ing. I don't recommend doing it.
You should never tolerate an affair, or live in an emotionally abusive environment in hopes that you can "wait it out".
2) Get away. While this is working itself out, I would make myself scarce. Just leave the house. Go for walks, hang out at the mall, get away from her. Of course, constructive GAL is better than wasting time, but I would do whatever you can to avoid contact with her.
3) Bite your tongue. There are so many things you want to say, and probably have the right to say. You probably have logical arguments for what is in her best interest and what you deserve as her husband. Explaining anything to her right now is a total waste of time. Save your energy and avoid the conflict that talking to her will cause.
This includes getting drawn into petty mind games about ring-wearing and other such distractions. Let her behave like a child and just walk away. Do not engage with her.
4) Start moving on. Actively begin thinking about what your future without her will be like. Where will you live? what will your budget look like? How will you spend your time? Start putting plans in place to transition into this new life. Specifically, I would consult a lawyer and start separating/protecting yourself financially.
One of the mistakes I made was to pay all the household bills. I established a precedence that forced me to continue paying all the bills throughout the whole divorce process. It is a minor thing, but make sure you have good legal council and are proactively making these kinds of decisions.
I really feel for you. I know exactly how hard what you are going through is. These are just my thoughts. Take them into consideration. listen to the advice of others. In the end, there are no right answers.
Above all - do not beat yourself up for making mistakes. We all make them. Moving on, doing 180's, detaching, keeping slient, etc... are incredibly difficult things to do. Just keep moving forward.
//How do I get the addict seperated from the drug?//
You don't. You remove yourself from her life until (and that may be never) she works through her own issues.
Of course that is easier said than done. Personally I failed miserably at it. But with hindsight being 20/20, here are some lessons that I learned the hard way:
1) Ask her to leave and find a new place to live until the affair is over. It is unreasonable to ask you to move out of your bed, or to live with a spouse who is engaged in an affair. If she is unwilling to leave or end the affair, then I would file for D immediately.
You will be told not to give ultimatums. I disagree. At some point, you have to draw a boundary and say "This is something I am not willing to accept". I wish I had the courage to say "I am not willing to live with you while you are engaged in an affair. If you are not willing to end the affair, or move out, then I need to begin the legal process required to enforce this boundary; that legal process is called divorce"
I cannot overstate how emotionally abusive it is to live with someone you love who is actively engaged in an affair. It will create lots of conflict that will counter most of the things you are trying to achieve with DB'ing. I don't recommend doing it.
You should never tolerate an affair, or live in an emotionally abusive environment in hopes that you can "wait it out".
2) Get away. While this is working itself out, I would make myself scarce. Just leave the house. Go for walks, hang out at the mall, get away from her. Of course, constructive GAL is better than wasting time, but I would do whatever you can to avoid contact with her.
3) Bite your tongue. There are so many things you want to say, and probably have the right to say. You probably have logical arguments for what is in her best interest and what you deserve as her husband. Explaining anything to her right now is a total waste of time. Save your energy and avoid the conflict that talking to her will cause.
This includes getting drawn into petty mind games about ring-wearing and other such distractions. Let her behave like a child and just walk away. Do not engage with her.
4) Start moving on. Actively begin thinking about what your future without her will be like. Where will you live? what will your budget look like? How will you spend your time? Start putting plans in place to transition into this new life. Specifically, I would consult a lawyer and start separating/protecting yourself financially.
One of the mistakes I made was to pay all the household bills. I established a precedence that forced me to continue paying all the bills throughout the whole divorce process. It is a minor thing, but make sure you have good legal council and are proactively making these kinds of decisions.
I really feel for you. I know exactly how hard what you are going through is. These are just my thoughts. Take them into consideration. listen to the advice of others. In the end, there are no right answers.
Above all - do not beat yourself up for making mistakes. We all make them. Moving on, doing 180's, detaching, keeping slient, etc... are incredibly difficult things to do. Just keep moving forward.
There is much, much wisdom here. ^^^
Starsky
Thanks, M wifealready filed for Divorce. She filed on 2/13/14. I accidentally found the affair. I felt something was off for sometime and I just couldn't put my finger on it. I look back at a text from her in August that just past and she actually accused me that something was going on. I immediately reassured her nothing was, it makes me wonder if thats when this thing began. My brother has been staying with me for sometime and Iasked him if observed anything he said he does remember on the Fridays we didnt have our kids she seem to not be at home, but he just thought it was the weekend she was out shopping or something. I don;t know. I do know earlier today she did say she was loyal to me and I don't know half the story, I told her I'm her to listen. she stopped.
I just came home and she was a bit talkative to me, one minute flippingme off next minute talking to me. I need a break from all of this.
I told W that I was going to bed in our bed she got so pissed that she grabbed me by my shirt and pulled me off the bed, I got up and told her not to put her hands on me again that this behavior is unacceptable. she then began cursing me and so focused on how I found out about the A,I just told hr I'm sorry your feeling this way, I went into the spare bedroom, I'm not going to get into a physical confrontation with her. I went in the room and began reading on the board here.
W came into the the spare room I'm and asked If I needed my pillows, I said no thanks and thanks forasking. About 3 minutes pass and she comes into the room and takes the daily prayer book. I have been really focused on God since this Bomb was droppd, one of W complaints on how we fell away from God and she was right when we went to church and prayed together Our M was much better.
I remember telling W in the mist of today that this M can survive this and she said you will just throw it in my face, I reassured her that we would have to let it out and talk about it.
I have really listen to what she is saying when she spews her anger at me.
I believe she wants me to fight for this M, some how some way.
//I got up and told her not to put her hands on me again that this behavior is unacceptable//
Yet you accepted it, and she got what she wanted. I hope tomorrow night that you go back to your bed.
I would like to say thanks RockJc. I work afternoon shift, so I usually get home around 12:45am. I will get into bed tonight.
W came into the room I'm in this morning and apologized to me for grabbing me and pulling off the bed and for being angry.
I simply said ok.
I read somewhere in these boards, "The one who least cares has all the power" makes alot of sense.
What I find ironic is my W has been lying to me and she denys the affair, but she pulls her FB down and OM pulls all his contact info off, when I told her I know about the A.
I get that pitted knotted feeling in my stomach.
My W best friend from childhood is a really big spirtual person and a big influene in my W life, should I let her know whats going on? It appears only my family knows about this. Not sue if W mother knows, I know her father doesn't.
I just feel real sad right now. Why do I still love her, why can't I shut it off! I've lost about 25lbs in little over a month. I have t o start working on me. I d know W said yesterday you sure seem ok being happy etc.. little does she know fake it till you make it.
//Why do I still love her, why can't I shut it off!//
Because it takes time for these feelings to go away. The death of your marriage will require you to go through a grieving process. It takes time. If someone's wife died, only a fool would tell him the next day to "just get past it and start living your life."
There are people on these boards who act like this is a simple decision you can make. It is not. What you can do, however, is accept the reality of your situation and start moving forward REGARDLESS of how you feel. The feelings will lag the action.
I think the decision to talk to your friend depends on the motivation. If the intent is to expose the affair as some kind of leverage to win back your wife, to shame her, or to spite her, then I would say absolutely not.
If counsel from your friend helps you move forward, or gives you peace then I would say to have the conversation. Just keep in mind, that the more people who know about the affair, the harder it will be for your wife to reconcile.
Personally, now that I am divorced, I am glad that the truth of our failed marriage is known. It helped protect my reputation and helped to keep the relationships that I had with my relatives strong. I also think it will make it harder for my W to re-write history as my kids get older.
Again, exposure makes reconciliation almost impossible. Since you clearly desire this, you may want to consider keeping these things private.
One last comment, when someone starts living a secret life and covering it up with lies, they do strange things. As they go further down this road, the lies compound and the person begins to change. At some point, you don't even recognize them anymore.
Watching someone transform in this way is scary. If I didn't see it for myself, I wouldn't believe it.
You really need to get away from her as she goes down this road. You don't want to be around to watch it. It will tear you up emotionally.
"P.S. The "Now you've REALLY blown any chance you had" thing is #1 on the Wayward Spouse Hit Parade script, you do know that . . . right? Mine said EXACTLY the same thing when she found the VAR in her car (which I replied with "I have no idea how that got there . . . maybe OM put it there, have you ever considered that? -- always fun to use their own paranoia against them "
what does this mean when they say you blew your only chance you had??? what are they thinking???
Wife just text me. "I f@#$ up my back and neck yesterday thats what I get". Not sure why she is telling me she hurt her back and neckthis tex came. Right at the end of my IC appointment. I don't think I will text her back. I'm going dark on her. She knows I go to IC every tues at noon.
I don't think I will text her back. I'm going dark on her. She knows I go to IC every tues at noon.
I think you just answered your own question.
Wife called me 2 times and text 3.times. text 3 more times. She said I guess were not talking. Text 2 after she called it said I take that as a no. Text 3..there are a couple things I need to discuss with you calmly. So now what is she trying to bait me into a conversation. First of all I have been nothing but calm during any conversation unlike her. What do I do about that last text?
Wait about 2-3 hours, and then respond with an upbeat "Sorry, just got these. Been in appts. all afternoon. Wassup?"
(or something similar)
Call. Easier to pull off the "upbeat" thing (IF you can pull that off? If she sends you spiraling when you talk to her, then text it, but include a winky face or smiley face or something).
I called W back, I was upbeat and told her I was in a working meeting all afternoon and now we hav an arrest blitz tonight so I told it going to be pretty busy tonight, and she said she was still at work and couldn't talk, the funny thing is she never answers her phone at work because there not allowed to. I asked wassup and she really didn't seem to have anything to say, so I said I have to go and told her good bye.
she did send me a text an hour prior to me calling her back and this is what it said. "Fine (my name)...F U! I'll remember that when you need or want to talk to me. I won't be available for anything anymore. Be ready!" Sounds like she wants to punish me. because I didn't answer you on the first text or call you back right away.
This is not the first type of text i get and I use to fall for them.
"the one who cares the least has all the power"
She said THAT an hour before you called her back, and you still stuck to that script????
Oooh boy. (((smh)))
Starsky
I didn't even acknowledge that text, she really had nothing to say. She gets off at 8:00pm so I will se if she calls me. She did seem down when I talked to her. I didn't stay on the phone long it was about 30 seconds according to my call log.
I'm assuming it was good sticking to my script???
I have to make this clear.
Your behavior throughout this thread is exactly as your wife said, it's SO CONTROLLING. It's all about what SHE is doing wrong.
Nothing about you being lousy to her, OR to her precious son, which is HUGE- and for me, and many women, that itself a deal breaker.
QUESTION --what on earth do you mean when you say you are divorce busting?
You're still snooping, which DB says NOT to do, and you even say an affair is not a deal breaker. Then what is the point? Oh, to make her "wrong" and you "right" and therefore you don't have to work on YOU??? Is that it?
Hey, You still snoop AND still do the opposite of DBing...so again I ask, what DB efforts are you claiming to be making? I don't see any.
I will cross out the parts of this I think are NOT HELPING YOUR SITUATION like mind reading, projecting, judging, and weird snooping...
.I just confirmed the affair, I had picked up a digital voice recorder and put in our bedroom and heard his voice which was a man suprising how that picked him up.
I listen to this conversation and it started out about how was work etc... hows son etc... and there is a code name for me FG because she was on the phone with me when son asked if FG was being a D, and W asked whats a D he said a Douch. They laughed. They then went into the conversation About the settlement agreement w and I had last night when she called me. She actually was wanting me to give her my agreement in five minutes, I said I would need some time to process this and get back with her and of course she got mad, and I said I would rather stay married and she said she had to go. anyways she tells him about this and she says he says he dont want a D and she told him I'm giving you one and she laughs, she tells him if it wornt for her we wouldnt have any of this first of all I make double the money and she was great with finances, we never argued over it. She then gets in her soft voice with him and she says oh yes I desrve it and will take it and the she calls him a coocoo she did the same thing to me when I would tell her what i'm going to do to her sexually. I could actually her his voice. She did ask him when he went through his D did they agree on everything. So not sure if he is still going through it or if its done etc... it amazed me on how it was all about me, but then again I remember when I had my affair I did the same thing vented with the new girl and the new girl pressured me to get D.
I just don't know who he is, I'm actually a bit relieved that I found this out and I'm not going crazy, like she wants me to believe. I'm wondering how long this has been going on. Now I see why she wants this done so fast. She even tol OM that he is taking in all this drama and she said something like your suppose to listen to me. So how long is this thing going to last and do I expose it to family and friends etc... like on marriage builders says to.
I just can't believe she is doing this,and if you met her you would never suspect it. I have been working afternoons shift for over a year and I now look back it played a significant roll on our M. You mean never seeing her, so she was lonely? So, are you changing your shift?
She goes out every weekend and now I know why she got mad at me when I subscribed to familywhere on tmobile which shows eachother our phone locations, I like the idea nice safety thing for daughter who is 11.
So not much I can do at this point, I'm going to continue my DB ways and continue to work on me. I did let w know that infidelity was not a deal breaker for me. WHAT DB WAYS?? YOU ARE STALKING HER, SNOOPING AND JUDGING AND NOT DOING A DARN THING DIFFERENT.
YOU ARE NOT WORKING ON YOURSELF, WHICH IS THE ONLY PERSON YOU CAN CONTROL...
It amazes me how they re-write history and say it was all big mistake getting married. I did the same thing to my exw when I had the affair, told the new girl how we should of never gotten married it was for all the wrong reasons etc...
I woke up one day and told myself I will never ever cheat on another person in my life, due to the pain it caused my EXW and the 9 years of pain it caused me in the relationship with the women I cheated with. I carried that pain the whole relationship with other women, I have know idea why I did. I do know the ow was 10 years younger than me and im sure that played a roll, plus my own insecurities.
If you still do not understand WHY YOU did this all those years ago, then what did you learn from it? And what chance do you have of understanding your wife's choices, since you seem to think she's exactly like you?
My suggestion is simple but radically different than the road you are taking. I say make this ALL about your role in your present marriage, leave the past alone (unless you agree only to look at your own behavior & learn from it. And when I say "learn from it" that means changing behavior, not excusing it).
You may be able to turn this around. I don't know. But I DO KNOW you're not giving DB a chance when you snoop, and confront and then snoop some more. If your wife sees nothing from you but confrontation, snooping, stalking, (the eavesdropping is so unhealthy, I cannot stress that too much) and self righteous indignation and suspicion
here are my 2 questions: 1) why would she believe it's NOT a deal breaker?
and 2) What's DIFFERENT about the marriage or how you treat her or her son, with all this energy directed at the snooping?
I think ^^This is just more of the old you. It's confirming her choice to leave.
The rest of your post is more of that, too.
But you asked for help here, so see my notes below.
My w is now on this ride and she now has to go through her journey. God spoke to me a few times. The first he had me go to church and I didn't know which church the cathloic one or this new assembly of God that just opened near me. I wavered with my Daughter back and forth almost turning around and I decided the the assembly God one. I pull up and they are having amarriage confrence, we go in and the scripture was all about fighting for your family, Nehemiah 4:14b Remember the Lord, who is great and awesome, and fight for your brothers, your sons, your daughters, your wives, and your homes." I was amazed he told me to fight, so I have been DBing and she was on the fence and now it seems she has jumped to the other side.
God spoke to me a second time. W called me tuesday because she forgot her lunch and work jacket at home and asked if i could bring it to her, I sid sure, I put alitle stationary card in her lunch and it said The little things in life make the big things in life. I wrote in it W(name) Have a great day with smiley face Love (name). along with a cofee. I meet her in the lobby and she smiling like usuall and she seemed akward and seems like she wants to give me a hug and she says I hate this lobby, ay other time we would of been in the fire stairs kissing. I leave and she calls me ten min later that was so sweet you got me that card and coffee. I tell her thank you. She then says didn't you feel akward at my work I said no not really, obvisouly she did not, I'm not sure how many people not situation or if OM.
So we chat for a second and then I let her go. She then calls me back again telling me she doesn't know how to take the card and coffee, she then says she just wants to run away from all of it, I suggest maybe we need to seperate and she goes on to say "I have to follow my Heart" I tell her we need to take our anger and resentment and put it in an envelope and put it away for awhile and focus only positive things she says who told you to do that, I said I've done some reading etc.. she then continues to say I don't know if I can and says again "I have to follow my heart" we end the call. I go into the book store and go to the spirtual books I look and look and then I see the love dare book, I pick it up and sit down I read the first page and in it says Jeremiah 17:9 "The heart is more deceitful than anything else", and it will pursue what feels right at the moment. I didn't think to much about it it until later on, I said oh my God he just told me she is pursuing her heart and its not your fault H(name). I then go and read Matthew 14:29 on peters faith, I continue to read into Matthew 15:17,18&19and one again "for out of the heart comes evil thought-murder,adultrey,sexual immorality,etc.." So God is telling me. I just don't know how to continue thcan get is fight especially after hearing herconversation with OM.
I do have to say W does have anxiety issue that gets real bad at times, she is constantly putting herself down, low selfesteem,and she is ocd with cleaning etc.. I have never stopped loving her even with her imperfections,
Does this^^ seem like an achievement to you? To me, that comment is terribly revealing.
So Tell me more about what you meant when your first post said you "took her for granted" b/c that's so vague, I don't know what it means.
And you did not get along with her son. Well how old is he? How destructive was the relationship? Do you now see how VITALLY IMPORTANT that relationship is, to your w?
A lot of people just stop dating a person who doesn't treat their potential step-children well enough. I mean it when I say it'd be a deal breaker for me if a man didn't truly like my children enough to believe they'd come to love each other.
I'd jettison the man at the first inkling of a critical interaction between him & any of my children.
I continue to pray to God for his wisdom and his will.
So what do I do and what is my course of action?
need some help.
If you really want to use the Div Busting approach, read the books and APPLY THE SUGGESTIONS.
That means you Stop the snooping TODAY....it does NOT help you at all. Be a better man to her son, b/c that's way way bigger than you seem to realize, or care to admit.
You want to project your own past onto her present and though there may be similarities , it's very dangerous. Very destructive. You presume you know her heart and mind, but you do not.
You keep making this about YOUR PAST...well if there's Karma involved, so be it.
But that is no excuse for you to take your eye off the ball thinking it's pay back from the past. You need to look in the mirror and begin your real search internally.
The real journey in life, is an inward one. Be the better choice and stop doing the opposite of DB. Be a man only a fool would leave.
If the affair is not a deal breaker, stop throwing it in her face every chance you get.
She'll never believe you can let the affair go, let alone to move "From this day forward" and frankly, the way you stalk her and buy surveillance equipment 
(I can't tell you how scary that makes me feel for your w),
In any case it's sure seems you are NOT the forgiving type. SEEMS TO ME,
If you were the forgiving type, you'd stop bringing up and focussing on the affair.
It's as if you think that the A is the only issue here, but it is the symptom. Oh, b/c YOUR PRIOR AFFAIR was all about you, or not about your prior marriage, does not mean a thing to your wife, today.
I think your wifes affair is about your marriage. And you play a role in that.
Very few women have affairs for purely physical reasons. It's almost always b/c of their emotional needs NOT being met, either due to their own issues AND OR b/c of interactions inside the marriage. Maybe she needs to communicate her needs better, etc.
You are not off the hook just b/c your first marriage ended b/c of your affairs. That's really off base & a red herring.
It's not as if you are in your first w's position-- and that is why I don't like seeing someone project themselves onto someone else's situation the way you keep saying 'it's just like ME in the past"...b/c she's NOT you.
Stop equating your previous cheating with your present wife's affair. I don't think you wanted to leave your first w, did you?
Well, your present wife wants out of her present marriage. So change the marriage you have NOW and stop stalking your wife for an affair you claim is not a deal breaker.
It just reeks of someone wanting revenge, or obsessing. I would bet That's how your w is going to read it, so that needs to stop NOW. It's absolutely NOT helping you. Here's a tip.
Your wife will not return to the marriage, unless
she believes marriage to you, can be better/different than before.
So, how are you SHOWING (not saying) that you are changing?
Be the best step father to your stepson that you can be. It's CRUCIAL for you to do this!
MANY women stay with a man, solely because he's a good father/stepfather.
The last thing you need to do is ignore that relationship now.
What are your GAL? And what 180s are you doing? You must do these to detach and detachment is mandatory...or you'll keep blowing it.
She has noticed my changes even called me a wonderful man, when I took her for granted, it was not spending time with her and drinking beer, not helping with house work. I would do it occassionally. I have been doing house work everyday, stopped drinking and have been giving her tons of affection, affermation etc.., I stopped being selfish and have been helping out more with step son. I even had a talk with him letting him know how much I love him etc... I'm not a looking for revenge and I do want to reconcille with her. I snooped to find out. yes its against DB principal, so I should be a door matt as she is out having an affair and she did file for divorce. I did ask if she was seeing someone and she denied it. When I got proof she stilled denied it. I did not argue with her or even yell at her, I did it with respect, calm etc...Marriage builders states expose the affair etc.. we have to do something different etc... I stopped snooping.
My question then is do what at this point go home crawl in bed with her and tell her I'm sorry. What is my course of action.
I requested to go to day shift its suppose to happen in the next couple of weeks.
I haven't been consumed with this affair, I found out about it and exposed it. It might work, it might not work. I undersatand DB doesn't want the affair exposed thats there principle, I understand.
i would like help. I talk to a coach and I was giving her all kinds of attention but her biggest complaint is I don't know if your changes will last. I told her I understand why she would feel that way.
" I undersatand DB doesn't want the affair exposed thats there principle, I understand. "
I don't believe it means that. I think it means that you don't make the affair the sole focus of your situation.
I'm not. I told w. I am responsible for 50% of the issues in M and it has caused her to go for affair, but I don't take responsible for her affair and our M can be restored.
I'm getting a little confused with different methods I need some help...advice I will follow it.
Well what's done is done and you have to live with the consequences one way or another. Aside from the A, your changes have only been going on for a few weeks, so it is too early to see if you've actually changed. Slowly you're going to have to find a way to regain your W's trust.
I agree on the trust in my changes. I pull away and she seem to blow my phone up today. I have been going out and having coffee meeting my friend studying the bible. I've been acting as if. And she sees me doing this and sometimes gets upset saying things like I'm moving on she gets upset like crying etc.. I was giving her tons of attention and affermation she liked it but wasn't really
Doing anything back towards me..Wife just called me back I talk to her she told me about her back and neck hurting . She then started talking to me about boundaries because she got angry last night and pull me out of the bed. She said she shouldn't act like that. I told ok. She then said I need to stop annoying her. I asked her how was I annoying her she said because you look at yourself in the mirror a few times before you got etc.. I told her I will be going to days shift. She said that will be good for D. I said yes it will be for her. She said our marriage has been destroyed I told her she is right it is dead, we only have two choices rebuild it or divorce. I also said I know the things I did she doesn't agree with but I did it to try and save this family. She said she has to fix hers reffering to her and step son. I said I understand. She said she has to take care o0f her and she didn't She did say I'm glad your doing good because I'm not and I need to take care of me. I said I understand. She said I'm glad your doing good and I'm the one who helped you by her filing for divorce, it was said in sarcastic tone . I didn't say anything. Didn't know what to say. Her whole ton sounded down. I was upbeat. That was the conversation she said she had to go. I never mentioned A. It looks like she is done with this M. Not sure what to do
I feel so helpless when she tells me she has to fix herself and there is nothing I can do. She also talk about not being able to be with my D and if she ever wants to come over, she said I probably won't let her. I don't know how to handle that. I'm just lost right now. I should just go dark and mind my own business and don't know what to make of it. I just agreed with her. How do I fight for this family.
25yearmlc, I'm actually a very forgiving person. I did snoop, it did not consume me, I did it for a few days. the funny thing is my W was going through my phone in the bathroom, she locked the door and went through. I had no problemwith it. Sh ekeeps hers locked, since I have been on the boards, I don't ask her where she goes, who she talks to, who calls her or who text her, she usually tells me, volunteers the information. When My phone goes off she always ask who are you texting etc.. I tell her when she ask.
Today I got a text from google with a new code for email account, I'm sure it was w. I have know problem sharing my email etc.
25yearmlc, I read your post ten times. First her son, I met this boy when he was 8 years old. remembered hanging out with him in his room watching this kid whaleon guitar hero, he fantastic. I even told him. He wasn't a very talkative kid, to this day he still isn't. As our relationship progressed I noticed this boy was running the house, he was still sleeping in his mothers bed, watching t.v. till 10:30-11:30 on school nigts, seperate meals and and W doing his homework.
If I would spend the night he would bang on tedoor because he wasn't in his mons bed etc.. We eventually broke him of sleeping in her bed. My wback then said was the first man who showed any concern for him. As our relationship progressed he seem to distant himself, because he wasnt getting his way, when he would go to his fathers house he would come back really moody and we would have to adjust back to our home. He would play grand theft auto and all these killing games at 8years old at his dads. This boys only passion was video games. I would take him outside for biking, playing catch and I even would do squirt gun fights with them, being my Daughter. All this stuff was short lived andhe didn'twantto do anything, except video games, I even played video games withhim. I an only play for so long, He would play from time he gets up until he goes to bed. I addressed these concerns with W and she would enforce the rules for a little bit and give up, I backed her up and enforced them. My wife was affraid he would wat to live with his dad and she would lose him. I tried a million things to connect with him, he just didn't want to. He respects me an if I ask him to do something he does it and sometimes he test he's 14 so I know that will come.
I can tell you he has been manipulating his mother for a long time. He still does and she says she knows it but her she is spending hours getting im ready for school, going over homework, organizing his planner, while he sits there playing on his i-phone as W gets stressed out. She threatens him to take it away but never does. When I say something about this, she says he needs help he has ADHD, he is on meds for it.
I love this kid, even went to counseling so we could find out what is going on. W stopped the counseling b/c she thought counselor was to mean with him, she just didn't tolerate his behavior and new he was manipulating. I find out by W he isalot like his father very moody etc..which is fine. I actually stopped any discipline because W wanted me to. Now all I do is hey buddy you might want to listen to your Mom after she called him 5 times to come to her.
Step son did tell me he wants his mother all to himself.
were there times I got frustrated absoultely, just like I get frustrated with my daughter at times. Did I handle things always right not at all, parenting you learn as you go.
I have racked my brain on trying to have a relationship with him. I even try to just chat with him on what he likes, and he just never opens up. I believe he may feel he is betraying his father if he has a friendship with me. I have read articles that it can take as long as 20 years for a step child to finally except you.
W has told me that this is a major issue and I have ben trying to figure this one out. He is the first kid who has put up a wall with me, I usually attract kids with my sill behavior. I'm going to be silly again and see if that works.
before I came home last night, stopped off at meijer and bought my W this little easter chic that lights up the rubber gooy kind.
I came home, went into the bedroom and told her, Wife, I brought home this chic and she is lonely, I said your not mad she says no in a odd voice like what is he talking about, I then said she will give you good company and fun, I then said her she is I give it to her flashing she starts laughing saying to me your
your funny and where did you get this, still laughing, she said thank you, she even said the last time you gave me a farm animal I ended up marrying you. On our first date I told her a friend of mine was stopping up and she got real concerned, I let this go on for about an hour and then I made her look the other way and said oh her he is and put pig pez candy dispencer on the table and she looked and just laughed and told me that was sweet etc.. the rest is history.
I then gave her a back massage and she let me touch her back butt massaging it, with out a problem and this has been going on this whole time she dropped the bomb. When I was done she tells me Thank you and you can sleep in the bed tonight for giving me a massage, I actually laughed and I mean I thought it was funny and I told her I always appreciated when she makes me laugh. I wasnt laughing at her I truly thought it was funny.
About an hour goes by and she seems to be tossing and turning, so she got up and went to sleep in the other room, Not sure what to make of that.
I use leave her little notes around the house put them in her car etc.. and yes that stuff faded as we got busy with kids work etc. I took her for granted by not being there for her, emotionally and I'm know I just did't just listen to her, I know I try to fix it for her, I drank to much, I just need to be a better person and stop being selfish, I really know what I have done wrong in this M, even When it was happening, I just felt like zi will never make he happy, so I withdrew myself at times, and then I would do nice things for her and she wouldsee it, and then pattern would start over, so now I know why she is afraid of my changes.
I do notice when I pulled yesterday she was blowing my phone up, but when I give her attention she takes it. so if i withdrew in the M and if I withdraw now isnt that more of the same? and if I do what I did last night isn't that pressuring persuing?
Maybe my wife feels she can fall back on me at anytime, do I need to make myself less available, because it sure looks she drew me right back in, by setting me up with back hurts, she wasn't expecting the chic though. LOL. I give her back massage, fed her some affection. Wife did tell me she is a very needy person. I'm just confusing myself.
I'm not. I told w. I am responsible for 50% of the issues in M
Stop this^^^ asap. This is 1) NOT accurate and 2) NOT helpful.
It's pure score keeping. And YOUR score card, is NOT hers. Trust me on that.
You think a woman in an active affair, believes SHE is half responsible for the state of the marriage? I highly doubt it. Lose the scorecard. It always hurts the marriage.
OWN ALL OF YOUR SHORTCOMINGS, 100% of them...they are YOUR flaws...
and say nothing about hers. First, NOW is not the time for you to be measuring her flaws and comparing...good grief.
Second, It's not your job to correct her or to tell her what her flaws are. You are the last person she needs to hear that from. It does not make you more attractive to her, OMG just the opposite. The OM makes her feel good about herself. You think your "half wrong, half right" theory helps?
That sentence just rubs so many WAWs the wrong way it's really a NO NO (per my DB coach as well). Model the changes you want to make in you, and let that be what she learns from IF she wants.
and it has caused her to go for affair, but I don't take responsible for her affair and our M can be restored.
I'm getting a little confused with different methods I need some help...advice I will follow it.
^^^That's your biggest problem, you are mixing approaches. If you want to use the other approach, go ahead.
But mixing these approaches always fails, b/c they contradict each other.
IT's very confusing and just not helpful. How would you know which part of what, is helping?
Make a choice and a plan and implement it. Don't keep mixing up the approaches.
The DB books says NOT to snoop. It also defines "exposure" as a spouse confronting the wayward spouse, and DB does not suggest it, but says it can, sometimes in certain situations, help.
But that would be an interaction between you TWO, not involving anyone else.
And there is no room for snooping. If I were concerned that my h was having an affair AND IF I KNEW IT WAS A DEALBREAKER, then I could see snooping just to confirm the affair, and then ending the marriage.
But snooping "just to know" and then to confront and hear a denial, and then snoop some more, to repeat the same "confrontation/denial", is NOT constructive.
This seems obvious to me. And I think it's part of why DB says not to do it.
It also makes reconciliation much harder and not just b/c of how it makes YOU feel. But how it makes the spouse feel....
No matter what you SAY, if you continue to snoop, it will NOT make your w feel that reconciliation is more likely....how could it?
before I came home last night, stopped off at meijer and bought my W this little easter chic that lights up the rubber gooy kind.
I don't know what this^^ means, (or most of the next paragraph below).
Just saying, I'm a bit lost here.
I came home, went into the bedroom and told her, Wife, I brought home this chic and she is lonely, I said your not mad she says no in a odd voice like what is he talking about, I then said she will give you good company and fun, I then said her she is I give it to her flashing she starts laughing saying to me your
your funny and where did you get this, still laughing, she said thank you, she even said the last time you gave me a farm animal I ended up marrying you. On our first date I told her a friend of mine was stopping up and she got real concerned, I let this go on for about an hour and then I made her look the other way and said oh her he is and put pig pez candy dispencer on the table and she looked and just laughed and told me that was sweet etc.. the rest is history.
I then gave her a back massage and she let me touch her back butt massaging it, with out a problem and this has been going on this whole time she dropped the bomb. When I was done she tells me Thank you and you can sleep in the bed tonight for giving me a massage, I actually laughed and I mean I thought it was funny and I told her I always appreciated when she makes me laugh. I wasnt laughing at her I truly thought it was funny.
About an hour goes by and she seems to be tossing and turning, so she got up and went to sleep in the other room, Not sure what to make of that.
Sounds as if she wasn't sleeping well. Read nothing into that. IT'd be mind reading. Don't bother. IF it is important or significant, she'll let you know.
I use leave her little notes around the house put them in her car etc.. and yes that stuff faded as we got busy with kids work etc.
You have to decide if you are going to pursue her to win her back,
OR you want to detach and let her see your changes somehow, without pursuit,
OR going dim on her. IF she is saying she notices your changes for the better, then you tell me, what is working and what is not?
I can't get an accurate reading on her behavior yet.
I took her for granted by not being there for her, emotionally and I'm know I just did't just listen to her, I know I try to fix it for her,
that OFTEN comes off as a form of criticism of the wife, as if the h cannot believe she is stumped by the problem b/c HE can solve it with two sentences or a 10 second "solution"...
OR when a h says "w, you say X is bothering you at work? Tell him you'll quit the job if he won't shut up", as if the thought had never occurred to her. Telling someone off is usually NOT the solution anyhow but more importantly
To the wife, it ends up sounding like her h is saying "I gave you the solution so stop talking about it now. Since I solved it for you, now let's talk about MY favorite subject..."
In short, it comes off more like a "okay shut up now" than any loving suggestion. Sometimes we simply want to be heard and supported emotionally. Not fixed...
I drank to much,
Drinking too much is a big deal. It's not merely the act of drinking itself. That looks bad enough.
Drinking too much means you are less available for intimacy (the more enjoyable kind), less available to help with the children or the home or yard, and a pretty mediocre (at best) role model for the children...it means hang overs the next day, which affects your behavior and relationships.
It seeps into so many things other than merely being in the chair looking mentally absent.
My dad was a brilliant, educated, hard working alcoholic. He never lost his job and our bills were paid and when he was sober, he was a good dad. But he got drunk every night for 15 years and that ruined a lot of family memories. It permeated every holiday...every single one.
I just need to be a better person and stop being selfish, I really know what I have done wrong in this M, even When it was happening, I just felt like zi will never make he happy, so I withdrew myself at times, and then I would do nice things for her and she wouldsee it, and then pattern would start over, so now I know why she is afraid of my changes.
consistent changes + sufficient time = changes she can believe in.
I do notice when I pulled yesterday she was blowing my phone up, but when I give her attention she takes it.
I don't know what this^^ sentence means.
so if i withdrew in the M and if I withdraw now isnt that more of the same? and if I do what I did last night isn't that pressuring persuing?
I can't tell what is helping and what is not, and I cannot tell partly b/c I don't understand your comments. Just curious, is English your second language?
If not, maybe you can write a bit more specifically, so I know what "blowing a phone up" means. I have teenagers but I asked and none of them have heard that phrase unless it means someone using up minutes...
The more she denies the A, imo, the better. Would you prefer her admitting it and saying "I LOVE OM"??
B/c that's what your pushing her about it, could lead to. It's a lot like demanding an answer from her, that you don't really want to get.
25yearsmlc, I picked up a toy easter chic that lights up from meijer last night. I came home with it and told her I brought home a chic because she was lonley, so I thought the chic would give you some company, I created some suspense with this chic coming over to our house. I then said her she is an I gave it to her and it was flashing and she started laughing and told me that was sweet etc.. She then told me the last time I gave her a farm animal she married me. I did something like this when we first met, with a candy pig pez dispenser, she loved it back then. I was using my sense of humor. I believe it went over well.
She was blowing my phone up with text and calls when I didn't answer it right away yesterday. It seem like when I pull away she wants to pull me back in.
When she tells me she notices my change, she tells me its like I'm some new man and she even called me fantastic. I was giving her attention affection, affermation, helping around the house, listening more to her. When she would talk about the M, I would just listen and show empathy etc.. I did notice thats when she noticed my changes. I stopped drinking completely. I even tell her if she would like an extra hour of sleep, I would drive step son to school. I have actually helped out with this more. I even get up in the morning just to talk with her about anything. I even talk to my DB coach chuck who said the same thing that its ok to persue her some. When ever she talks about my shortcomings I tell her she right I did take her for granted by doing XYZ etc.. I still do it. I'm trying to remember how I was when we first met. I had the more I don't care attitude until she won my heart over which didn't take to long. She has this personality that just draws you in. We did everything together, she loved riding on my Harley. I gave her alot of attention. I'm trying to really figure out how to break the ice with step son.
For example last week W forgot her lunch at home and she asked if I could bring it to her, I brought it to her, I put a card in her lunch box it said on the front "the small things in life make the big things in life" Inside I wrote "W Have a great Day with smiley face, love H". I left and about 2 minutes later she called me, saying that was really sweet of you. She then asked me if I felt uncomfortable at her work I said no. When I dropped the lunch box off to her, she appeared to want to hug me but she hesitated and didn't. She then said she hates the this lobby. We ended the conversation and then ten minutes later she called me back. She said to me she didn't know what to think of the card I gave her and she then started telling me how she just wants to run away from all of this and just go with her heart, being alone etc.. I told her I understand why she would think this way. She then had to get back to work.
So it does seem she likes when I do nice things like this, however it looks like she gets cold feet or is it a test.
The next day I tried to stay dim and she had mentioned to me she didn't here from me all day and its funny how you get me a card the day before and the next day nothing.
She has told me several times she is confused and has asked my why are you doing this now and that it makes her angry about my changes. I continue to be this way. I just need to figure out a plan and some balance with this
Why do you say you have to "balance this"? If it's working, and it seems to be giving her second thoughts, (Which is great) then keep at it. Is it really that hard to be nice to her? I mean, where is it "costing" you?
Also, I didn't know you were being coached by Chuck. I would NEVER tell you to Not do what a DB coach says to do. They have all the facts; we don't.
If you are mixing approaches, why bother with a coach? If you have a coach, follow their advice. I had a DB coach and her words always always helped. She was a Godsend.
I hope you'll stick with what Chuck says, b/c the coaches are very good at this, better than just cherry picking advice.
The "rules" for newbies are guidelines and are really meant for those who don't have a coach, and are more in line with "until you get better help, this is a GUIDE"....but you DO have better help, i.e. Chuck.
I'm really glad you have him. You want your w to doubt herself.
Also I found that if my h revised the marriage a LOT, which he did, but if there was ANY truth to it and he'd been hurt, I had say things like "H, I'm sorry that hurt you. If I had it to do over again, there are lots of things I'd do differently".
and if he said something I could swear was a lie or just did not happen the way he said, I'd say "Wow, h I sure don't remember it that way but I'm sorry if you were hurt. IF I had it to do over again, there are many things I'd do differently"..
Neither approach escalates and both statements show change on OUR end.
The WAS has to know WE are working on ourselves b/c
the only way they will return to the marriage,
is IF they believe marriage to us can be better/different than before.
It's up to us to SHOW that, with actions not words.
Make sense?
PS
Stop snooping, please.
And consult Chuck if you can't wrap your brain around what I'm telling you.
Seriously, you need to tell him what you have said HERE...to process it. B/C it has to stop.