I'll start a new thread.
Update...H continues the affair he started back in August 2011. We decided to separate in early January 2012 (after several months of DB-ing by me but H being unwilling to give up the affair and unable to make up his mind)
Since then, H continues to travel to OW's city for work. His work schedule has been insane as well. H has been increasingly reaching out to me and he is trying to be nice when he is home (offers to take the kids places, gives me back rubs, says he loves me, etc) He has made no move to leave the house although we told the kids we are separating.
4
I'm fed up with the situation and I feel "done"...I'm actually not sure if I want my H back at this point. I've lost a lot of respect for H through this process.
I've been having a great time with friends and also met a very nice guy. He's also going through a divorce. Great dad and very patient to see what happens with my situation. Not a great idea to be "dating"...but I believe he was sent into my life to show me why I shouldn't put up with a cheating husband. Life is too short and we are all worth too much!
M: 43
H: 45
Married 12 years
3 daughters: 11, 8, 4
H in affair since August 2011
I've known since 9/15/11
Does your H know about the other guy?
Yes, MrBond, he does - which is why he's suddenly paying a bit more attention to his wife, if you ask me!
Yes, there's something to be said for realizing we deserve to be treated well, isn't there?
I would caution you - don't judge your H just on his behavior in the last year. Even the best of men do absolutely freakin' crazy stuff when they are in the grip of these affair hormones. If he was always a great husband before, there's still a chance he might return to being a great husband later.
BUT - if you're realizing that you've been putting up with unacceptable behavior all along, and the affair was just the icing on the cake - that's a different deal. Sometimes it takes an affair (or two, or three, in the case of my ex) for us to open our eyes and realize what has been wrong with the relationship all along.
Yep, H knows about the other guy. I met him after we decided to separate. I've only gone on 4 dates with him over 6 weeks...but H knows about all of them. H has had some sleepless nights fretting about it, but not enough to stop his affair. It's not all bad...H's main issue with me has been not enough intimacy and I've been the lower desire spouse...so, the fact that I'm generating some interest and may be interested in a guy is a bit eye opening for him.
You have nailed my dilemma. H is kind, very funny, great dad, very successful, and fun. However, he's also a workaholic and there was rarely a night he was home for dinner. He is constantly on technology devices. He's also a big kid at heart which can be charming, but sometimes challenging. And, we are both avoiders...so we have had a very hard time addressing issues. (I'm not sure we've ever had a real fight...even during his affair). I've also realized we might be better friends than lovers. H is very high desire and has a fairly unrealistic view on relationships and great relationships not needing a lot of work. We've always been very comfortable friends rather than passionate lovers.
I've been pushing him to work on things and I've mostly kept the way home smooth...I've told him numerous times that I understand why he did this and I have taken ownership in my role in his affair. (I can understand his anger and frustration with me...I dismissed his sexual/intimacy needs in the craziness of our lives--two big careers, 3 kids under 10, etc. To me, we were like everyone else I knew...) I've shown him that I'm reading books like "when good people have affairs". I've told him I just want him to be happy and I'm also focusing on making myself happier.
Part of me thinks we should split and work on being great co-parents/friends after the divorce. Or, split and see if we realize we should get back together.
Most of me thinks we should try again now. We have never really done counseling and if we put any energy at all into our relationship...it'd be interesting to see where it could go.
But, the problem is, I have continued to lose respect for H and I'm now losing my attraction towards him. I know a lot of it is related to the affair craziness...and all hope isn't lost. I just look at him now sometimes and he is like a shell of who he used to be.
H really wants to remain on a fence with me. He denies he wants a divorce...but he just isn't willing to give up the affair and the potential that it could work out.
The other hard factor is that OW is 2,000 miles away...and so is H's job. He's sort of built a new life for himself away from his family. Part of that is great for him...makes it easy to have an affair. Part of that is very hard...will he eventually realize he wants to be close to his kids? If so, the affair will probably die (OW is very established with 3 kids and a separated husband in her city).
I feel lucky in some ways that I have a great job, good friends, a supportive family and three wonderful daughters. I also have an H who still says he loves me and can't figure out his life. He's been secretly horrible during the affair (taking vacations with OW), but never to my face.
For those who have been following me, I think they generally understand where I am and why I have "lost it". I'm not doing everything right and I'm no longer as concerned about perfectly divorce busting. I guess I've read a ton of stuff and I just feel like I need to follow my instincts. I'm also living more for myself right now.
Thanks for listening...and I don't mind if people challenge me. I know I've lost it compared to some of the people on this board who have put up with a lot more for a lot longer.
Quick update,
H came back this weekend and I had plans on both Saturday and Sunday with friends. I did stop by H's parents house on Saturday and helped the girls deliver a cute Valentine's gift to H's mom. On Saturday night, I got home late with D11 and H came in to D8's bedroom (she was in bed with him) at least 3 times to check how I was doing. H tried to be affectionate with me a bit this weekend, but I didn't reciprocate. I'm not unfriendly, I just don't feel like we should be romantic at this point.
H and I talked briefly again before he left this week. He's not sure what he wants. He doesn't like our lack of intimacy. He doesn't feel like it's fun and warm when he's home. He also feels like we're like two ships passing in the night. It is still all about him and what he needs from me. However, I can tell he isn't thrilled with how life is evolving.
I asked H to go look at places on Sunday to start his plans to move out. He wanted me to go along, but I had plans with a couple girlfriends. He looked, but again, made no actual move towards moving.
I believe I have two options:
--Be warmer and friendlier--however, I had been doing this for like 5 months and all it did was help H feel better about his affair and coming home.
--Continue on my separate life path and push him for a separation unless he gives up the affair and is willing to work on our marriage.
I'm still leaning towards option 2. And, it'll prepare me better for a new life if he doesn't change his mind.
H also continues to text a bit from OW's city. He can't seem to let go.
I believe I have two options:
I think you are correct in your assessment. You already had several months of showing him how good things could be if he came home. Now you're showing him what life is gonna be like when he can't have his cake and eat it too. Interesting, isn't it, how they're drawn to what they can't have? So so predictable.
Agree. Funny that when I'm not really watching for baby steps, they may be happening. Asked H if he wanted to have dinner last Sunday...ended up falling through because D11 was with him...I said she could join us...H said, "I was hoping to just have dinner with you."
H is coming home Thursday this week, "Do you want to have lunch on Thursday?". Turns out I can't because of work.
If I read the LRT chapter, he is showing some signs of being more interested in me and seeming more concerned about what is happening while he is gone. He called me tonight after the kids went to bed on my cell phone...which is rare. He just seemed to want to talk.
Still, hard to know his motives and if we could make things work again.
I believe I have two options:
I think you are correct in your assessment. You already had several months of showing him how good things could be if he came home. Now you're showing him what life is gonna be like when he can't have his cake and eat it too. Interesting, isn't it, how they're drawn to what they can't have? So so predictable.
Yep. Basic human dynamics. Fascinating, ain't it??
Starsky
Still, hard to know his motives and if we could make things work again.
Nb,
It's impossible to judge "motives." DB teaches us to monitor ACTIONS, not motives or intentions.
Do you know what your list of "dealbreakers" are, ahead of time, should your husband come to you and ask for reconciliation? Now would be a good time to put together that list, while your mind is clear.
Starsky
Good point, and I doubt he knows his motives.
Great idea to make a list of dealbreakers:
--End the affair, no further contact.
--Agree to go to counseling. I also think we'd have to be able to establish realistic goals.
--Open records around credit cards, cell phone, etc.
The one I'm not sure about is work travel. He does now need to be in OW's city for his job...but, that will be very hard. However, I think quitting the job he loves and asking him to end the affair could be too much all at once.
Something does have to change with his job though, it's too demanding and takes away too much from the marriage and family.
Good point, and I doubt he knows his motives.
Great idea to make a list of dealbreakers:
--End the affair, no further contact.
--Agree to go to counseling. I also think we'd have to be able to establish realistic goals.
--Open records around credit cards, cell phone, etc.
The one I'm not sure about is work travel. He does now need to be in OW's city for his job...but, that will be very hard. However, I think quitting the job he loves and asking him to end the affair could be too much all at once.
Something does have to change with his job though, it's too demanding and takes away too much from the marriage and family.
Well, the good news is, that RIGHT NOW, you cano't need to demand ANYTHING, because he's not asking back into the marriage. You're not at that pivotal "What would it take for me to come back?" stage. When you ARE, though, I think the FIRST item on your list pretty much takes care of the LAST item. Either "no further contact with OW" is a dealbreaker for you or it isn't (it sounds like it is, and good for you!), and either HE will be serious about making you feel safe in the marriage, and restoring your trust, or he won't. When that time comes, HE will need to demonstrate to you that he can maintain his current job, and its duties, and still meet your "no contact" boundary.
Make sense?
Starsky
Yep, I'm not overly concerned about having this list ready too urgently. I think a huge issue for me is him making our marriage a priority.
H is on his way home now...sending me a lot of text messages.
I'm pretty sure he's fighting to stay on his fence. I don't think he's at the point of being ready to completely recommit. And, until he is...I can't judge whether or not I'd be willing to try.
My friend was watching Dr. Phil yesterday...he told the wife in an affair situation..."why are you waiting for someone else to decide YOUR life?". That's a great perspective!
My friend was watching Dr. Phil yesterday...he told the wife in an affair situation..."why are you waiting for someone else to decide YOUR life?". That's a great perspective!
I couldn't agree more.
The way I heard it phrased once was, "Why are you letting the ONE person who DOESN'T have the marriage's best interests at heart right now, decide its COURSE?"
That's not to say you can control the outcome (you can't). But you can certainly control YOUR end of it, and adopt a "This is what it would take for me to even BEGIN to think about taking you back, but in the meantime, I'm moving along with my own life", confident, GAL stance. It doesn't mean you have to FILE or anything (altho, eventually, that day might come when you have to, if he continues to cheat). It just means you've adopted an air of "I've moved on, emotionally."
Us men want most what we have to
pursue.
Starsky
My problem is that I told him I needed him out of the house back at the beginning of January. I can't live like this. He's done nothing. I think I'm stuck because for my H--it's easiest and keeps his options open--if he stays in the house with me. I think I may need to file to push him...but part of me hates doing that because it may put us on too much of a path towards ending things.
Last night, he's home...acts nice. Crawls in bed and falls asleep. This morning, he's giving me backrubs and probably wanted a bit more. (He didn't get anything romantic from me) But, when he leaves to go to work...I gave him a quick hug and instinctively tried to kiss him. He turns his head to avoid the kiss.
Honestly, I think I just want him out of here. I want to be able to move on. He knows he has to give up the affair for us to work on the marriage but he doesn't seem capable of that. And, as I keep saying, I'm also not sure I want to be here waiting to be his second choice if the affair falls apart.
This is very hard...I can seem little glimmers of him in there somewhere...but I know we are both very unsure of next steps.
Thanks Starsky!
Still, hard to know his motives and if we could make things work again.
Nb,
It's impossible to judge "motives." DB teaches us to monitor ACTIONS, not motives or intentions.
Do you know what your list of "dealbreakers" are, ahead of time, should your husband come to you and ask for reconciliation? Now would be a good time to put together that list, while your mind is clear.
Starsky
^^^wisdom
This:
This morning, he's giving me backrubs and probably wanted a bit more. (He didn't get anything romantic from me) But, when he leaves to go to work...I gave him a quick hug and instinctively tried to kiss him.
Doesn't say this:
Honestly, I think I just want him out of here. I want to be able to move on. He knows he has to give up the affair for us to work on the marriage but he doesn't seem capable of that. And, as I keep saying, I'm also not sure I want to be here waiting to be his second choice if the affair falls apart.
DB teaches us to judge their ACTIONS, and not their WORDS (the ol' "Believe none of what they say, and only half of what they do"). Well, that works both ways.
Starsky
Damn Starsky....use your commas correctly! So intelligent, but damn on your punctuation LOL ...like so many here!
Starsky ....<<<;-)>>>
Drives me nuts. Read Strunk & White.
Starsky ....<<<;-)>>>
Drives me nuts. Read Strunk & White.
Why? Maybe you should read "Miss Manners." It's a HELP FORUM, not an English class. Since inflection can't be heard on here, I use punctuation phonetically, to include pauses that I want to include in my inflection. (I also, from a technical standpoint, overuse dashes and I sometimes either begin or end sentence with ellipses, does it really matter?)
You're always free to ignore my posts.
Starsky
Damn Starsky....use your commas correctly! So intelligent, but damn on your punctuation LOL ...like so many here!
btw,
four elipses isn't proper form, MZ. Just sayin.'
Starsky
This is funny.
But's Starsky's point is excellent, and IMO, even more useful for women.
Encourage the behavior you want, not the behavior you don't want.
H is leaving tomorrow morning. He was not happy with me this weekend. He didn't get affection from me and I wasn't very responsive to his conversations. (I was actually in a bad mood this morning and was grumpy with him...I apologized when he got back from a run). A couple times when things didn't go well with the kids...he swore under his breath at me. I can handle it...but it's annoying. I still think he's in such a selfish place that it's hard for him to deal with the family.
He went to look for places today. He doesn't seem to have thought through the finances yet...he seems to be in a bit of a fantasy world about us both being able to continue to live in nice places. (We live in an expensive area and I can continue to rent the house I'm in...but if he is required to pay child support...which I expect he will have to do...he can't afford an equally nice place)
I may file for separation sometime in the next couple weeks. I have some income that I want to protect. Also, it'll protect me from H spending down our money. H said that was okay with him.
I'm still really struggling with things...but, again, it's been 7 months of this crap. Also, he has plans next weekend and won't tell me what they are. From past experience, the vibe I get is that he has plans with OW. He claims it's not a vacation this time...but what's the difference if he's in her city and they are doing fun things.
Yeah, the affection from him is hard. I'm not into it anymore (just done trying to compete)...but, he can still be nice and he still says he loves me...so it can be hard not to let him give me a backrub or hug me. It is an interesting test though to try to kiss him and have him turn his head...
I may file for separation sometime in the next couple weeks. I have some income that I want to protect. Also, it'll protect me from H spending down our money. H said that was okay with him.
I'm still really struggling with things...but, again, it's been 7 months of this crap.
Then I would say you're about 6 months since the time you should have had some formal financial protections in place. People who are actively wayward typically demonstrate off-the-charts senses of ENTITLEMENT, as well as other addictive behaviors, and you'd be wise to protect your finances, Nb.
And if you're refusing to be his bootie call now, he may lash out financially. (He may not, but it's best for you to protect yourself).
Starsky
I talked to a lawyer early on. Most of our assets are real estate or in a separate account of mine. I'm ok....but, I have a bonus payable this month that I would like to keep.
H and I make similar money and I can see his account online. It isn't out of control. H is pretty cheap and OW is rich.
I do appreciate the concern though...
I talked to a lawyer early on. Most of our assets are real estate or in a separate account of mine. I'm ok....but, I have a bonus payable this month that I would like to keep.
H and I make similar money and I can see his account online. It isn't out of control. H is pretty cheap and OW is rich.
I do appreciate the concern though...
OK.
Sorry Starsky,
I was in a punchy mood and meant to be sarcastic and funny and I wasn't. My bad!
MZ
Sorry Starsky,
I was in a punchy mood and meant to be sarcastic and funny and I wasn't. My bad!
MZ
That's OK, MZ. We need a sarcasm font around here.
It's all good! And I DO use commas way too much (and improperly)!!!
Starsky
MZ and Starsky, and you guys are using my affair thread to discuss grammar! I have bigger problems here! :-)
Humor is all good.
H is floundering around. He is freaking out that I'm going to talk to a lawyer about money and about him trying to buy a house right now. "That's going to put us on the path to divorce." I was in an airport today for business travel and was in a crowd of people saying things on the phone to him like, "I didn't put us on the path for divorce...your affair over the last 8 months did!" My friend I confide in about this stuff found it kind of funny.
He is saying "if we reconcile" more often...but I keep asking him if he'll try or what he wants and he can't say.
I'm still texting quite a bit with my new guy "friend". We're going out for drinks on Friday. I'm sure I should feel worse, but this guy is great support for me and I'm having fun.
I'd love to know what OW is thinking these days...H is working very long hours and I can't imagine she'd be thrilled if she knew what he was saying to me about his indecision.
H is floundering around. He is freaking out that I'm going to talk to a lawyer about money and about him trying to buy a house right now. "That's going to put us on the path to divorce." I was in an airport today for business travel and was in a crowd of people saying things on the phone to him like, "I didn't put us on the path for divorce...your affair over the last 8 months did!" My friend I confide in about this stuff found it kind of funny.
Good "truth dart." You can't really teach a wayward, WHILE they're wayward, but you can land little "truth darts" from time to time like that, and let them sink in.
You can also tell him "I haven't decided anything yet, but I thought it would be wise, considering the state of our marriage, to better understand what my legal options and rights are right now."
Notice you DON'T reassure him ("Oh don't worry, I'm not going to do anything ..."), nor do you threaten him. Just a calm "I haven't decided anything yet," etc.
Look, you've got two VERY strong basic, human dynamics that you are putting in play on your behalf, Nb:
One is that
"Men value most, what we have to pursue." The other is that
us humans are, really at the end of the day "path-of-least-resistance" creatures. The ol' "body at rest tends to remain at rest, until acted upon by an outside force" thing. It's sad, but also likely that your husband isn't going to do ANYTHING regarding a move back towards your marriage unless placed into some sort of crisis, fear-of-loss mode. Now that you have him there, be civil -- even courteous -- but
don't rescue him.Oh, and be careful with the OM stuff -- you're playing with lit matches there, kiddo.
Starsky
Like playing with matches when your house is already on fire? I agree. I am thinking I need to cut it off with OM until I have more clarity on H.
Yeah, interesting and very hard to push forward...but H doesn't like his world being rocked. He seems to be fighting in all directions. He was joking with me some on text msg later in the day...seemed friendlier than the past. On the other hand, feels like he is on a date tonight...silence.
My struggle is that I need to know at some point if H and I can set mutual expectations for what we want going forward if we were to try. I know that is a premature statement...but goes back to me not being sure I would take him.
The huge thing my OM friendship is giving me is some strength and more understanding of H. I know that is a bit demented.
The urge to rescue him is there...agreed...I need to be nice, but firm.
The huge thing my OM friendship is giving me is some strength and more understanding of H. I know that is a bit demented.
No, it's not demented - it makes perfect sense actually.
The admiration of another man rescues your self esteem and helps you detach. And seeing how easy it can be to slip into another R, makes you understand a little better how H slipped into his affair.
But yes, it's dangerous, because you might get your feelings involved and then not be able to go back to your marriage even if H wants to try. Or your H could come back and you could end up hurting OM.
That's why I sometimes advise people in your position to create the APPEARANCE of dating (going out all dressed up, being mysterious about where you're going, buying yourself flowers and leaving them around as if someone sent them)- without really dating - so as to provoke the WAS into feeling exactly what your H is feeling now, but with the ability to deny in the future ever being with another person.
Unfair though it is, if you were to sleep with OM and then reunite with your H, odds are that he would continue to hold that over your head and resent you for it.
Kml,
I agree and my feelings are involved. I think all those reasons apply and OM is also a really solid guy and that is so refreshing after H. He doesn't want to be in an affair so he is being careful we don't get too serious before I am done with H.
That said, I am getting attached to him and even though he knows there is a chance I will reunite with H...I think he is getting attached too. I don't want to hurt him.
I would think you would have to stop seeing OM. You're going to lose the attraction for you husband the more time you spend with the OM. It's not fair to you or him (OM). Make a decision, and stick to it. We are strong women, right?? Life is too short. If you make a plan and stick to it, by filing for divorce, it puts the ball in his court and he has to fight for you. And if he doesn't, who wants a man like that? You seem to have done your fair share of fighting. How long do you want to fight? It's exhausting.
I filed for divorce on Friday. I informed H last night when he got home. He initially said, "ok" and acted like it was no big deal. We then got "into it" and had a couple hour conversation.
Lots of the same stuff came up. It feels like he has such a lack of understanding of what his guilt is making him feel and say. I can tell he isn't sure what he wants and he admits he will probably end up wanting me back later. However, he doesn't like when I say that working on our marriage will be a long process and it's hard to know how it will turn out. He feels like he can't give up his affair for that. I told him that's fine with me and I'm at the point where I need to move on. He basically likes the affair for how it makes him feel (I felt like saying, "Yes, I know...that's what every book says".) He also claims he never compares me and OW. I told him maybe he should start if he's really concerned about making a decision between us. He still feels like he can't talk to me about his affair because he thinks it will hurt my feelings or I'll throw things back at him. I said that was fine.
I freaked out at him a couple times when he tried to put things back on me or say I haven't been willing to try. He can tell there is a deep under current in me of anger and pain.
He said the one night he knew I was out with OM was the first time he realized (after 6 months!) that his affair could mean our marriage could end. I told him I feel like I was too patient with him and I should have filed and lost it sooner. He didn't agree or disagree.
Again, he can't really tell me what he wants or what he'd want me to do in an ideal world. He knows he has to end his affair for things to work out between us.
I also don't think he's comfortable that I appear to be strong and appear to be moving on. I told him how I've been working on detaching...he's only one person out of billions on the planet and even though he's my husband and the father of my kids...I have to live my own life.
It's really hard not to try to make him feel better or rescue him...but I'm not going to.
Interestingly, I've had a couple people ask why I seemed so happy on Friday. I think taking some control of the situation feels very good. Also, I've processed a lot in the last 8 months...I agree that life is too short.
Also, I've processed a lot in the last 8 months...I agree that life is too short.
This is true. My good friend almost died this last week (42, husband and father, generally in excellent health) and it does make you think (he's doing fine now, thank goodness).
You've done a lot to try to save your marriage, and you're even giving him the chance now to give up the OW and work on it. If he can't step up to the plate, I think it's ok to say you're entitled to move on then.
It's really unfortunate for the kids, but it sure sounds like he's been such a part-time dad, that they might not react as badly as most - since they are already used to him not being around that much, that part of their lives won't change much.
He said the one night he knew I was out with OM was the first time he realized (after 6 months!) that his affair could mean our marriage could end.
That does reveal the fantasy world most adulterers are living in, doesn't it??
Our kids (sadly) are used to him being gone. If anything, they are excited he may get a new place. I don't think they'll get it until he actually moves out.
I had drinks with a friend of mine on Saturday. She said her kids are actually very happy living with her as a single mom. Their dad visits occasionally from another state but he's a "fun dad" and they now as teenagers can see that they've been better off with the stability of their mom.
I continue to believe that things have to "hit the fan" for anything to change. (told H that last night) I let him sit on his fence for too long.
I've detached and am okay with whatever happens...at this point, I need to do this.
H is losing it. He's not sleeping, he left today but was in and out of our bedroom at least 6 times last night.
H is mad I filed for divorce and retained an attorney. I told him I needed to protect myself financially...and the filing truly protects both of us. It seemed like seeing the filing hit him between the eyes.
He was also trying to tell me he hasn't spent that much on OW and she actually pays for a lot of their travel. I got sick of hearing about it and told him to "f*** off". He came back later and I said I still just can't understand how he could go on vacation while I'm home with the kids.
He was in our bedroom the night before last. He said he just needed to hear my breathing..."it's comforting".
He's losing control. And, he's realizing I'm moving on.
For anyone who gave me the advice to stop putting up with this--it was the right advice! But, I had to get to this point where I'm detached and willing to take the risk.
Stay tuned...
If it wasn't so sad, this would be hilarious! They are SOOOO predictable.
H is losing it. He's not sleeping, he left today but was in and out of our bedroom at least 6 times last night.
H is mad I filed for divorce and retained an attorney. I told him I needed to protect myself financially...and the filing truly protects both of us. It seemed like seeing the filing hit him between the eyes.
He was also trying to tell me he hasn't spent that much on OW and she actually pays for a lot of their travel. I got sick of hearing about it and told him to "f*** off". He came back later and I said I still just can't understand how he could go on vacation while I'm home with the kids.
He was in our bedroom the night before last. He said he just needed to hear my breathing..."it's comforting".
He's losing control. And, he's realizing I'm moving on.
For anyone who gave me the advice to stop putting up with this--it was the right advice! But, I had to get to this point where I'm detached and willing to take the risk.
Stay tuned...
nb,
Try not to get sucked into these convos with him anymore: don't "jump into the pit" with him. When he brings up anything legal or financial, just say something like "Unfortunately, this is now a legal situation and I guess the lawyers and the courts will have to sort that all out, from our financial disclosures. I really don't understand how it all works, but I'll be relying on my attorney for that." Or, shorter, just "I guess we'll have to discuss all these things with our attorneys now."
I know it's hard, but try to remain unemotional -- no more "f*c* off" comments, missy!
Much better to say "I'm really sorry you feel that way," or just "smile and wave" as we used to say around here.
You're doing well, tho.
Starsky
Update...so, D11 lost her cell phone over the weekend. She went on to my ipad to track it...and guess whose phone she tracked? "Mom, why is Dad's phone in Mexico?" Yep. Texted him and told him the kids had tracked him. He had told me he had "plans" this past weekend so I wasn't overly surprised. But, he's been all about being honest with each other...so the fact that he went to Mexico with OW is a little different than "having plans".
He told me to tell the kids he was at a meeting. I responded via text and said I wasn't going to cover for him. (In reality, I ended up telling the kids he was in Mexico with friends...)
This was all actually good verification that I'm going down the right path for me. Just ridiculous.
There was also a tragic death in his family this weekend and his dad called him in Mexico crying. H texted me about it. So, I think between him knowing our kids know he was in Mexico and this death...he couldn't have had the best weekend ever.
He comes back Friday. I am going to let him know he can't stay in the house. (In the end, he may stay in the guest room...because he's only home for a day and a half and he needs to swap out his clothes, etc.)
I got Dobson's book Tough Love this weekend...very good and very fitting for where I am.
He told me to tell the kids he was at a meeting. I responded via text and said I wasn't going to cover for him. (In reality, I ended up telling the kids he was in Mexico with friends...)
So, you told him you were no longer going to cover for his affair, and then you covered for his affair. Got it.
Starsky
Ha ha, I know.
I just didn't tell him that I covered for him. I just wasn't going to tell the kids a story that he was in Mexico for business.
Above all, I'm putting the kids first. I would not tell 4, 8 and 11 year olds that their dad is with his new girlfriend on a vacation.
Ha ha, I know.
I just didn't tell him that I covered for him. I just wasn't going to tell the kids a story that he was in Mexico for business.
Above all, I'm putting the kids first. I would not tell 4, 8 and 11 year olds that their dad is with his new girlfriend on a vacation.
And I wouldn't recommend that you do. I am glad that you're not giving him any
reassurances in that regard, tho.
Starsky
wow...Mexico huh??....the absolute, well, ill use the nicest word I can think of, NERVE, these men (and Im useing that word loosely) have is unbelievable to me.....
selfish...spineless...cowards....
also the nicest words I can think of right now...
ITM, I know...it's beyond ridiculous. Especially given he freaked out that I filed and acted like I was rushing us towards a divorce outcome that he didn't want.
I'm actually not using much emotional energy on him. This was the last straw in my book. I don't want to deal with this anymore and I'm truly happier right now by myself and focused on the kids.
I'm very glad I filed for divorce (almost 2 weeks ago now)...in California we have a 6 month waiting period and I'm glad that's started.
I am in CA also and am 4 months into our "6 month waiting period"...he has hired a lawyer and is fighting me on a divorce that HE wanted so it looks like its going to be a looooong ungly battle...sad ....
You are distrupting his path of least resistance. Of course he is losing his mind. Let's all take a moment and feel sorry for him...ok! Over it. Move on.
BTW...are you keeping track of all this money he has been spending on ow??? In CA that can factor into your settelment...
He claims he will reimburse me...but if it gets ugly...I may need to subpoena his credit card bills, etc. (He has set up a couple new cards that I can't see)
I can tell from my online access to his bank account that it isn't totally out of hand...but also not good or fair.
He claims OW (keep in mind, she is rich) is reimbursing him for some of the costs. I had to laugh to myself at that...what a treat...dating a crazy married man and paying for the privilege!!!
Thanks guys...
Nb,
You will both have to release full financial disclosures as part of any divorce action. It's standard stuff. Any "squandering of marital assets" in your checking account, by him, is going to show up, and a family court judge isn't going to look too kindly on it.
Starsky
H is on his way back here today. He sent 3 or 4 emails last night. I'm making him stay at his parents house tonight with kids. He sent a couple nice notes about trying to "figure out" weekend plans...I think he was hoping I'd back down and let him stay here.
He then sent a note asking if I wanted to look at houses with him (he may buy a place to move into). Another note, should we buy season ski passes for the family next year? I responded to that note to say I thought that was fine.
I could tell from his notes that he got at most about 3 hours of sleep. I responded to tell him we can talk about this stuff when he's back...and he really should get some rest. He said he can't sleep anymore.
He's only here until 6 am on Sunday...then he flies back to OW's city for work. I feel like he's at risk of some kind of breakdown...but, I'm not going to jump in with reassurances or try to help.
I think he's very good at compartmentalizing too. He knows he's coming back here and he's trying to re-engage with me so that there's a nice little family waiting for him.
As for me...I feel really strong and actually happier than I've felt in a long while. I have a ton of pressure/stress with work and the kids...but I also think we're getting into a good routine. Hoping to do a couple things for myself this weekend when he's back...
I think he's very good at compartmentalizing too. He knows he's coming back here and he's trying to re-engage with me so that there's a nice little family waiting for him.
This ^^^ is very typical, in my experience. It helps explain how otherwise-heretofore-high-principled people can also engage in such seemingly OUT-of-character destructive behavior.
Starsky
Blow him off about the house hunting. Or just do not reply on that. You have mentioned before what works and what does not. Let him compartmentalize that. It is all part of building an acceptance. Let him go figure it out for himself. And keep strong.
I am sorry that you do not know me. I have been away a long while from this site. I did read up on your stitch before I posted.
You got a good person in Starsky helping you out.
Thanks, Hutch.
I've had a stressful day at work and H had also been texting about his weekend plans. He comes back on Friday and will take the kids until at least Saturday (to his parent's house). Sunday is our D4's birthday, so he offered to be gone until Sunday but I said I would like her to be home that day.
I don't think H understands that I really can't deal with him being in the house anymore. I'm fine coparenting...but the thought of him trying to be nice to me or acting sad/conflicted about me filing for divorce is so hard. He acts like he cares, but time after time...does worse things with OW.
I saw some of his emails to OW last weekend. (I've been amazingly non-snoopy...but had the opportunity and took a look last weekend when he was home). I saw their back and forth on planning their romantic WEEK in Mexico a couple weeks ago. They were reserving the rooftop romantic suite, planning dinner on the sand, etc. I also saw he was emailing her about next Christmas and taking all of the kids (his and hers) to Hawaii. (to the resort I had mentioned to him as a place I knew the kids wanted to go). Also saw a couple stupid emails about sex/drinking. No surprises, but just further reinforced how dishonest he has been.
I really do think I'm better off moving on...I have a sense of piece when he's not home and when we aren't in contact.
I sent him the following email.
"If you want to be here next week, that'd be fine. You could sleep in the guest bedroom or with one of the kids.
I do really need to move on with my life at this point. I can't live like this anymore and I'm happier being alone than dealing with you and the drama.
You can do what you want, but wouldn't it be easier just to rent a place here for awhile until you figure out more of what you want to do? I think the kids will be happy wherever you are."
Snooping is inevitable but always more painful when you learn more about the relationship that is not yours. I am sorry you have had such pain but think you have really gotten to a good place to be able to move on.
I have vowed not to be the one to file for the divorce but don't really know if I can keep that promise. My H seems content to live as roommates and expects me to find my own happiness - which I am working on but it doesn't happen overnight. H has already found his happiness.
Yep, I definitely don't recommend snooping. You are much better off focusing on yourself and not on the affair. However, for me, it was very helpful to see the evidence of his A as he slinked home acting like everything was fine.
I've just really gotten to the point where I've realized that my H is the one having the affair. I should be the one filing for divorce. I'd feel worse if he continued in the affair and then eventually filed for divorce himself.
I'm truly at the point where I need to move on. I think my H hates the fact that I filed...but if all of this still isn't enough for him to change course? I feel like I'm saving myself a lot of wasted months.
I would have also wanted H to come back because he really wanted to...not because his affair ends and he "might as well". We all deserve to be first choice.
I've been feeling horrible about my marriage for 9 months and have known about his affair for almost 7 months. That's enough for me. And, I felt a wave of relief when I filed and no regrets...that's a big sign I was ready.
I found an old book of mine last night "Play to Win". It's more about career...but also has some applicability to life. It's all about conquering fears and living your life to "win" versus "not to lose". Applies well to my situation..
Nblost..
How are things with you?? have been thinking of you lately and just wanted to check in...
Thanks for reaching out ITM.
I'm okay. No real change in my situation. H signed that he had been served the divorce papers last week. He still seems in denial that I'm moving ahead with this.
For me, I'm continuing to try to do positive things:
--Focus on the kids
--Exercise, eat healthy, get rest
--Think about what I want my life to be like in the future
--Do things with family/friends
--Go to church
--Travel--taking the kids on spring break for 4 days next week
--Redecorate a bit in the house
I'm still in contact with the guy I met after H and I decided to separate. Probably not ideal but we see each other every couple weeks and we have fun. It's been great for me to know I can have fun again and there are other fish in the sea.
H continues to travel and work non-stop. He's been back the last three weekends but we've lived pretty separate lives. He still stays in the house but claims he's looking at places (he isn't really). He's gotten the message that we aren't physical or sleeping in the same bed anymore. He is gone this upcoming weekend. If anything, he's "friendlier" and more respectful with me than he's been since this all started last July. He seems very excited when I text him a photo or something about the kids. I do think there might be a chance he's emerging a bit from the affair fog...although even if he does, we have issues and I'm not sure if I want to work on our marriage again or not. I think I only would if he was willing to make some major changes.
I know it bothers H that I'm moving on and pushing him off his fence. It's been hard to stay strong and not "be nice". I'm basically just thinking I'm done and if anything, following the Tough Love advice from James Dobson.
What a journey!
M 43, H 45
D11, D8 and D5
H affair started 8/1/2011
Discovered 9/15/2011
Affair continues
Decided to separate 1/2012
Divorce filed 3/2012
Tuesday was a very hard night. H teed up that he thinks he needs to be back this weekend to meet with a lawyer. He's clearly upset/mad that I filed and now he needs to respond to my divorce filing. I told him I thought he had more time and he kept sending me little "digs".
He then asked when OW can meet our three daughters. He's implying that since I set the divorce in motion, he now needs to move ahead on his end which includes introducing her to them. As the conversation progressed (via text), I got the clear impression that OW isn't pushing for this and I believe H is using it as a threat against me now that I've set the wheels in motion to divorce.
I told him I don't trust his judgment right now and I don't feel like he's acting rationally. He claims he has no idea what I'm talking about.
Every few texts, he'd comment about how he appreciated my opinion and values our family.
Anyway, the conversation really shook me. I made it very clear to him that in my opinion, our girls should absolutely not meet OW until we have finalized the divorce and a reasonable period has elapsed. From what I've read, this could have a devastating impact on his relationship with them, they won't like OW, and they could also turn on me. (Let alone their own feelings of abandonment when they discover he hasn't just been working in OW's city).
I'm seeing an ugly side of H. I think he's truly desperate to stay on the fence. I continue to be glad I filed and glad I'm pushing ahead. I can see that I would have waited a long time for this affair to end.
I'm really working on not being impacted by H's irrational behavior. Just hate that he is involving the kids.
Hi Nblost
I've been reading you since you started posting, but I think this is the first time I've ever posted to you.
I have been so impressed with your clarity, your ability to maintain your self-esteem during a very difficult time and your ability to be honest with yourself in terms of where your at, the things you are doing to cope and your realism about his attitude … it is pretty amazing for someone who is really in the very early stages of separation.
I've never admitted this on this board, indeed I've only admitted it to 2 people in the whole world, but a couple of years after my x and I separated, I entered a relationship with a man in circumstances very similar to what you describe about the relationship your H is in with OW.
He was a liar and a cheat – but I had no idea of that at the time. He was working and living in my city and only went home “to see his children” every second or third weekend. I was busy and constantly travelling, so I didn’t really notice any inconsistencies in his story. I bought his crap hook line and sinker. I was into him and I trusted him. He told me he and his wife were separated, but because he was away there was no point getting another house for himself in town and when he went in his ex stayed with friends and family and he stayed with the kids. I had no reason to disbelieve him ….
Turns out, his wife didn’t share his opinion that they were separated. As far as she was concerned, he was working away to make money to support his family and they were very much a couple.
Eventually she found a text or e-mail or something from me and rang me. She told me her side of the story. I’ve never been so embarrassed, ashamed, humiliated in my life and I immediately ended the relationship.
A year or so later, he called me and told me what happened after that (not sure why I took the call, but maybe so I can tell you this story – I’ve never taken another call from him since). Apparently, she begged him to stay, she flipped out and was threatening suicide. She collapsed really (I still feel shame thinking about it). But she kept hanging on to him. This man who had betrayed her, she clung to him like a limpet and he felt so guilty and concerned that he let her. Eventually his shame (and that’s my interpretation) and his inability to communicate his needs and desires meant that they did break up.
I heard through the grapevine recently that she is still calling him and asking him to come home (it’s now 2 ½ years later) … and he’s onto women number 3 or 4.
He was such a weak man, if she had have just played it straight, kicked his ar$e out and told him his behavior was unacceptable … he’d still be there – he was too immature and unselfaware to make any major changes to his life of his own accord – and lets face it, men who are unhappy in their marriages have some obligation to make their feelings known to their partner so they have some hope of figuring things out, BEFORE they start sleeping around.
You are doing the right thing and you are amazingly calm. Which is the absolutely perfect attitude whatever happens. If you reconcile, there won’t be all the history of drama and clinging and if you divorce, you’ll be able to co-parent appropriately.
I can almost guarantee you that OW knows very little about you or your circumstances. I can also almost guarantee you that if you or someone else told her the true story, she’d be horribly embarrassed and very hurt. She’d have no option but to end the relationship.
…. However, I don’t think you need to go there do you NBlost? You are one strong lady and you get it. This isn’t about you – it’s about him and he needs to travel this journey on his own, or he will never grow up.
You keep being amazing. ((y))
Walking, you are so nice. I definitely don't feel like I am as strong as you think I am! I guess I am finding my way. I really do feel more empowered now that I'm taking action. I couldn't handle living like this anymore. I think everyone gets there at different points. I'm far from perfect though.
Your perspective is so interesting. H claims OW knows the truth, but I can't believe she does. He got the most angry during this "ordeal" when I said I should just call and talk to her about how she's feeling about things. I agree it's hard to know where this will end up...but I do feel good that I've mostly taken the high road. H has recently viewed me as taking "the offensive" against him...and I have gotten more angry at him recently. But, I also think he's trying to get me to back down and be nicer again.
What's interesting is that through my detaching from H...I really don't feel like I care about them anymore (until my kids are at risk for getting sucked in).
I have really felt like contacting OW at moments...but I am above contacting her. I just feel like I don't want to stoop to their level. At Christmas I told H that I felt like I was in a group of three losers and I was going to be the first one to get out.
I guess the more I see H acting like this...the more I think she can have him!
Thanks again for your note! It means a lot.
He got the most angry during this "ordeal" when I said I should just call and talk to her about how she's feeling about things.
Guilt and fear always seem to manifest in men as anger ... anger is always a good tip that there is a whole world of stuff he is worried about you finding out!!
You're a classy lady. Keep at it.
V
That was the first thing my STBX threatened me with when I found out about the ow....he immediantley started talking about introducing our S15 to her, because he knew I wouldnt like that. I also knew that it would damage there relationship most likely beyound repair. Our son was 14 when it started and is totally capable of putting 2x2 together and figure out that this ow was an affair...and not just a new girlfriend like STBX was playing her off to be.
I insisted on him NOT knowing and then helped STBX cover it up for the next 4 months until it became obviouse by his behavior that something was going on and S15 started to ask questions and get angry at ME for not answering them. I eventually made his D come over and speak to him and come clean....and it HAS damaged there relationship...S15 has zero respect for him avoids seeing him as much as he can...and still has not met ow.
They are still going strong and STBX continues to spend alot of time that he COULD be spending with his son, with this ow instead and that is a choice HE makes. but insist that it is not....Its so funny how they all are so predictable in there behavior and actions.
Be prepared...I filed first, and tried to work WITH STBX to make this as easy as possible on myself and my S15...he finally got his own L and came after me with a sledge hammer...and my situation is different then the above...this ow knows the situation (I think it was obviouse when I caught them in our bed by my reaction and the fact that most of my things were still in our home) If she didnt know before she certainly knew then, and I get the distinct impression that she is the one pushing for the D to go threw as fast as possible and for her to meet S15 asap.
and there is a bench in hell with people like thats name already on it....
He then asked when OW can meet our three daughters. He's implying that since I set the divorce in motion, he now needs to move ahead on his end which includes introducing her to them. As the conversation progressed (via text), I got the clear impression that OW isn't pushing for this and I believe H is using it as a threat against me now that I've set the wheels in motion to divorce.
I told him I don't trust his judgment right now and I don't feel like he's acting rationally. He claims he has no idea what I'm talking about.
Every few texts, he'd comment about how he appreciated my opinion and values our family.
That's your opening; AGREE with him, and say "I appreciate that you want what's best for the family, and I'm sure neither of us what to do anything to unnecessarily harm the kids emotionally. These are important issues, and we're going to have more of these, and I'd like us to sit down with a good family therapist to talk about how to play this with the kids. Are you okay with me getting a couple of names for us to consider, and then we can pick one?"
or some such.
It is NOT a good idea for kids to meet OW this soon, and your husband's either not thinking straight right now, or as you say he's merely trying to use this as a weapon against you. Best to let a good MC/FT deal with it, as ANY of them worth their salt will tell them that he should wait at LEAST six months before he introduces any other women to your children.
Starsky
Your perspective is so interesting. H claims OW knows the truth, but I can't believe she does.
Based on my experience studying literally thousands of affairs, I can state with about 95-99% certainty that she DOES NOT. He's probably giving her outright LIES, at worst, and "trickle truth," at best.
Starsky
I bet she doesn't know the truth either. His life gives me a headache.
Starsky, that's a good way to approach the kids/OW issue. I do think it was a bit of an idle threat. He seemed to be willing to listen to me (via text message). And, OW is 2,000 miles away so it isn't like he can easily introduce the kids (and my divorce filing dictates he needs written permission to take the kids out of state) I told him at least 6-12 months after the divorce...
Thanks everyone.
Quick update.
H was back again this weekend...acts very friendly. We had a discussion last night.
--He doesn't think we can work on the marriage, it's been "run into the ground".
--His affair seems to be going well. He asked again about having OW meet our kids. I think if he had his way, they'd go with him to her city for the month of August. I told him I'm not comfortable with that.
--He thinks I'm all about dating and having an affair of my own. This past weekend, he took the kids and I was mostly alone except for lunch with some girlfriends. He seemed suspicious about that.
--He said he was open to talking, so I asked him a couple questions about OW and the affair. He refused to answer. "You'll just use the information against me later".
He still hasn't found a place to live. I'm encouraging him to find a rental.
More of the same. And his work is crazy so I know he's stressed and tired. He loves his job, so even if we were staying married, I'd have the travel and work hours to deal with.
I continue to feel like I'm ready to move on. I have had some valleys of depressed feelings over the last couple weeks...I'm trying to just live through it...I know it's a process.
On a bright note, the kids and I had a great week last week on vacation! Kids were well-behaved and ran around the hotel/pool. I was able to workout every morning and get some "me" time by the pool with a magazine (especially because my little one fell asleep a couple times on the chair next to me). I really didn't miss H at all. That was a huge sign for me...
NB,
Your thread is one I keep up with, although I don't think I've ever posted to you before. I wanted to say I admire your strength and grace in dealing with a very difficult circumstance. I, too, dealt with infidelity in my sitch, and I had to take a strong stand as well. I wasn't the one who filed for divorce, but I did tell my h he had to leave the house as long as there was ow. I knew I very well might lose my marriage (which the old one needed to be lost anyway), but I couldn't live with knowing my h had something on the side. I'm happy to say that we are reconciling, but it took a long time and a LOT of DB'ing to get here (after a LOT of heartache). In my case I knew that even if we didn't reconcile, I'd still be okay and happy...better. I can tell that about you, too.
I'm so very glad you and your children had a good vacation. I took my kids to the beach last summer on my own while separated and when things were VERY ugly between h and myself. I will always be proud of myself for doing that. During a time of heartache for my family, I helped provide lots of smiles, laughs and memories for my kids. You did the same for your family.
Anyway, just wanted to tell you that someone out there in DB land checks in on you, hopes very good things for you and supports you in your decision. Hang in there and stay strong!
hugs, ncl
Ncl,
Thank you.
I can look at your postings, but were you at the point like me where you felt like you didn't really want to be married anymore? I feel like I'm beyond where many people are on this forum. (which makes me wonder if I should leave...although I hope someone may find something of value in my postings)
I feel sick when I think of what a divorce means to our kids and about some of the social side of getting divorced (no longer doing some of the things we used to do with couples/friends). But, between H and I? I feel somewhere between detached and "dead".
I guess maybe we keep going down this path and we see if there is ever a "reawakening" with either of us.
Again, the Tough Love principles are really resonating with me. I think I should have applied them sooner.
Nb,
Reading over your post to me, I see SO much of myself in it! Did I feel "done" at times? You better believe it! I have been put through humiliation that was beyond my worst possible nightmares. I have had to hold my head high and put a smile on my face when I knew people were discussing my marriage around me and all I wanted to do was crawl in bed and pull the covers over my head. I went from hating my husband at times to feeling sorry for him to just not caring about him at all. When I finally REALLY detached, my only goal was to co-parent effectively with him. I had accepted the fact that we were going to be divorced. It was tough getting to that place (and took me a very long time), but I did it. I didn't know what my future held, but I knew it would be good for the children and me.
We, too, are a very "social" family, and early on I saw friends and couples slip away and a decline in invitations to couple and family events when our problems became public knowledge. That was hurtful to me, but at the same time I could understand that they didn't want to be caught in the middle of our drama. In our case, ow lives in our town, runs in the same social circle and has children the age of ours. The ongoing affair caused not only our families hurt but also so many of our mutual friends. Our true friends are the ones who stayed through thick and thin, and I'm very grateful for them. We are also starting to socialize again as a couple, and while at first it has been a little uncomfortable, slowly things have become "normal" again.
Additionally, I HATED that my children would be shuffled back and forth between 2 homes (which we did for some time). All my dreams of how they would grow up in our great family "dream home" we built and live in and one day come back to visit with their own children were destroyed. I felt so very terrible for them, but in time I gained my strength and vowed to raise them the very best I could and offer them the most healthy life I could.
Also like you, I had a very nice gentleman express interest in me...he made it apparent that when I was ready to dip my toe back in the dating pool, he'd like to be the first to know. It felt great to get such positive attention! I knew that wasn't something I would be ready for until after my divorce was final (and probably a good while after that), but it felt good knowing there was someone out there who believed I was a beautiful and caring, kind and smart woman and that my husband was a FOOL for letting his attention drift elsewhere. I truly had become the woman only a FOOL would leave, and I had done it for ME, not for my husband.
So, when my husband came back to me (and this was the 3rd time he had filed for divorce, 2nd time he'd moved out...not to mention countless times he went back and forth between ow and me - some times I know about, no telling how many I don't), I was VERY hesitant and extremely guarded at first. BUT, as a DB'er, I had left the door to possible reconciliation cracked just a bit. I will admit in large part I did this because we have young children, and I believed I owed it to them to give the marriage another try. I can't say for certain that if we didn't have children or if they were grown that I would've done the same thing...I was so very tired of going through all the drama by this time. However, I can say with complete certainty that I'm SO very glad I did give our marriage another shot.
Piecing and reconciling hasn't always been easy, but the work has been so very worth it. Complete honesty and transparency is a must. No more phone and computer passwords, no more slipping away without letting me know where he is, etc. Total forgiveness is also a must...you have to let the past go and only concentrate on the here and now. Establishing and respecting boundaries is very important. It can't be assumed what is okay and what isn't...it must be stated and then honored. Additionally, we have started practicing true giving and gratitude to one another, and I can't describe the joy that brings to our marriage. Again, it's not easy and we certainly hit some bumps early on, BUT I feel like for the first time, we are really getting it right and that our marriage is getting stronger and better than ever before.
I will also say this...I know with certainty that if we had gone ahead with a divorce, I would be okay...not just okay, but fantastic. The kids would be great too. We would just have a new normal. My husband? I guess he'd have carried on just fine (but he wasn't my concern). So if you do decide to go forth with the divorce, know that you, too, will be okay...fantastic.
Only YOU know when you are truly done and the door to possible reconciliation is closed. I and others here will respect your decision either way. You have been through an extremely tough time, and again, I admire your strength and grace. I also admire your courage to put your foot down and say enough is enough of status quo. Whatever you do, I encourage you to stay on the boards. The support here has been so very important to me, no matter what place I have been in.
My advice isn't worth much...I did so much wrong so many times before I really started DB'ing, that actually I'm probably a great example of what NOT to do! However, I will say that detaching from the emotional drama (stepping off the roller coaster), going very dim (only communicating about what is absolutely necessary and not responding when it was ANYTHING else), GAL (as hard as it is with little ones, it's so very important you enjoy your life to the fullest!) and focusing on making you the very best you possible is what worked for me. My faith is also very important to me, and I couldn't have found true strength, forgiveness and grace without it . These things may not be what saved my marriage (it's absolutely essential your husband give up the affair for good, and only he can make that decision), but it did save me....and that's what DB is all about!
hugs, ncl
Thanks ncl,
We do sound a lot alike in many ways...although your situation sounds tougher than mine (at least "my" OW is in a different city and my H is consistently ambivalent...ha ha). Hearing your journey was very helpful to me...thank you!!!
My H also knows I've gone on some dates and is very suspicious/jealous of me. I think he's partly upset and partly using his anger to lash out at me and justify what he's doing. Looking back, I shouldn't have gone on any dates yet, although...in a way, I also think it forced some reality on H. I agree it's also nice to have other men confirm that your husband is a FOOL for leaving you. You can't get overly dependent on it...but like I've said....very valuable to learn there are other fish in the sea and you can have fun again.
I'm not sure there's much of anything you can do while the affair is ongoing. I think everyone makes mistakes along the way. I guess it is just focusing on yourself and making yourself happily detached that's the key no matter what happens.
I have a very hard time seeing my H coming back. I can see him eventually waking up from the affair (or more likely, getting dumped). But, he's never been very realistic about long-term relationships and the work that's involved. One of my fears is that even if he came back...we'd get 3-4 months into tough counseling and he'd want to bail again.
That said, my H can be a very fun, loving, sweet guy. I just don't know that he values me enough to go through the effort or make me/the family a priority.
The good news now is that I'm at the point where I continue to care less and less what he thinks or does.
I agree that hopefully life is fantastic no matter what happens. I think some people on this board lose sight of how good life can be when you are alone. :-) (especially versus putting up with all this crap!)
Thanks again!
H came back again for last weekend. He took the kids a bit. Overall, it's just become awkward when he's in the house. He tries to act friendly and I am sort of friendly, but there's so much between us.
While he was back, I found a receipt that he and OW had been to "my" city while I had the kids on spring break. I don't think they visited the house...just stayed in a couple nice hotels. But of course he lied about it and told me he had been here looking at houses...wanted to respect me and not stay in "my" house while he was here if the kids weren't around. (Ha ha...)
I was very upset with H yesterday. He has the following logic chain going...luckily I have the divorce filing so he can't do any of this without my permission.
I filed for divorce.
I've now asked him to move out.
He needs to buy a house (doesn't think he can afford rent??) to grant me my wish.
The house he can afford needs a lot of work.
He won't be able to have the kids there for several months while work is being done.
To see the kids, he then wants to bring them to OW's city.
The kids can stay with OW for the month of August while he works/takes vacation days.
I told him I'm not comfortable with that. We're still married and I don't want my three girls involved with OW until we're divorced.
He's now pressuring me to send him proof of funds so he can make an offer on this house. I'm not comfortable.
So ridiculous. I'm meeting with my counselor tonight.
Put it in the divorce agreement that the kids cannot be in contact with OW until such and such conditions are met... I am sure someone can come along with some examples.
Other ways are kids are not allowed to travel more than x KM from the house without approval.
OR - just accept that they are going to meet her and that you really can't prevent this. Yes, them meeting her before you all divorce carries the risk that they'll figure out he was cheating and may hurt their image of their father - but that's his problem to deal with. And truthfully, by August, if they already know you're divorcing, they may not even connect the dots.
Did you ever see the movie She-Devil with Rosanne Barr? For some reason, I am envisioning the scene where the kids go to stay with her ex and his mistress, Meryl Streep - too too funny.
NB,
I suggest seeking advice from both your therapist and your attorney on this matter. I would NOT want my young children to go stay with my husband and OW either before the divorce was final. Do you think your husband is serious about this, or is he using this as a manipulation tactic to get something he wants?
When he starts demanding/asking/pressuring on matters you do not feel comfortable discussing, refer the matter to your attorney and tell him you have done so. I don't mean for you to do this as a way of causing more drama, but rather as a way for you to not have to be the bad guy and to take the pressure off of you. Attorneys are paid the big bucks for this very reason (at least that is what my attorney always told me!). Until the court orders otherwise, you don't owe him a darn thing. Remember that.
Also, it doesn't hurt to remember that August is still a good bit in the distance, and that your husband has some serious reality checks (with going through separation and divorce and shared custody and split finances) before that time. His fantasy land of being able to escape with OW is about to have some rude awakenings. Sure, right now it is really easy for them to carry on in la la land, considering they don't have kids, mortgages, bills, family, friends, etc to consider. Things change DRASTICALLY when it's no longer an undercover affair. I speak from experience on this matter!
Again, I am in awe of your strength and grace during this time. Just keep standing up for what you believe is best and healthiest for your children and you. I know that you are in a very tough and stressful position. I will be praying for you. Keep us updated as you can.
hugs, ncl
Part of me is with you kml...I know there is a piece of me that's just being a bit petty/jealous.
H is also pushing my buttons too. From what he's saying now, he would take the kids to OW's city (where we lived for 14 years prior to moving across the country about 2 years ago). He would take them for the MONTH of August. They would would stay with OW. She would take care of our three girls while H works. I'm sure her three kids (similar in age to my oldest) would be around a good chunk of the time.
I don't know her. So I told H that even if I did approve, I would want to meet her before she stayed alone with our kids.
OW lives in a multimillion dollar house and I'm sure it's very "fun". H thinks they'd have a great time. So, am I also insecure about them wanting to live or move there? Yes.
If he was talking about taking them out to dinner with OW some evening in August? I still wouldn't like it...but okay, it's manageable.
I'm also not crazy about H sleeping with OW while the girls are in her house. He sort of agreed that was a bad idea...but then later said it wouldn't be reasonable for them to sleep apart for a month. Keep in mind our girls very frequently like to crawl in bed with us.
He can't take them under the divorce filing...I have to give permission for them to go out of state.
It's just a very stressful, hurtful distraction.
I don't know her. So I told H that even if I did approve, I would want to meet her before she stayed alone with our kids.
I'm also not crazy about H sleeping with OW while the girls are in her house. He sort of agreed that was a bad idea...but then later said it wouldn't be reasonable for them to sleep apart for a month. Keep in mind our girls very frequently like to crawl in bed with us.
He can't take them under the divorce filing...I have to give permission for them to go out of state.
It's just a very stressful, hurtful distraction.
NB,
Your concerns are not selfish, petty ones. They are valid.
The ball is in your court; as you mentioned, he needs your permission to take them out of state. Until you are comfortable with that, hold tight to your boundaries and standards.
This is still very early in the D process (even though your sitch has been ongoing for some time), so don't feel rushed to make any decisions right now.
Believe me...I know this is VERY stressful and VERY hurtful, but you are doing great. Hang in there.
((( )))
Quick update,
I went on my women's retreat and it was fantastic. Great chance to bond with a mix of women and share experiences. It was interesting to hear a range of perspectives. In some ways, definitely a lesson that no one's life is perfect (married, divorced, widowed, single). And also a lesson in that we can all make it through very challenging situations and make it out the other side in a better place.
I came out of that with a renewed sense of calm and that I am on the right path. I am really feeling like I'm done with H and ready to move on.
That said, I get home and H is nice/friendly. He's still in the house and stayed with the kids for a couple nights this week while I had work travel. I doubt anything has changed with his affair situation, but he does seem more involved with the kids and maybe less in his "fog". He still seems in denial that I've filed or that I want him to move out. For example, this weekend, he's back on Saturday morning and wants to go to my parents place for the weekend as a family.
I guess I'm just tired of dealing with him and I'm feeling like I'd be happier if I moved on.
You do what you have to do.
NBlost I think we all get to that point. I have come to believe that there is much more in life than crumbs....
And don't we deserve the whole cake??
I have come to believe that there is much more in life than crumbs....
And don't we deserve the whole cake??
Amen Sista!!
And to think it only took you 3 months and less than 90 posts to figure that out!
You a fast learner girl. U the Queen of Detachment - a very important DBing tool.
Keep at it ... and use this time to invest in loving yourself - thats what this journey is ultimately all about!!
Ha! It's been almost 9 months and 250+ posts on this website...amen is right!
I'm still very challenged by H. He sends mixed signals and I think he is still conflicted. He's also very overwhelmed by work so I'm not sure he's even willing to think about his personal life.
I'm just living life--staying active, trying to be present for the kids, focusing on work, etc. It's powerful to realize that I'm not even sure I want to be married...this single life is kind of nice! (I think I'm burned out!)
Hi Nblost. It has been a couple of weeks since your last post and I hope you are OK. I have followed your thread since the beginning and marvel at your great strength and patience. Please let us know you are doing.
Best regards,
Rogerio
Thanks Rogerio!
I've been very busy the last couple weeks. Went to my parents for Memorial Day weekend (H flew back on Sunday night and joined us, but I left after a couple hours to return home with my oldest D). I had a great trip this week for work.
No real update. H told me he misses me a couple times this past week. I've been cordial to him, but pretty "dim". It isn't really a strategy...I continue to feel detached and I also don't really enjoy our interactions. He says some nice things, but until he's willing to say his affair is over or there is any change...I just don't believe anything he says.
H also has a very unpredictable travel schedule that's becoming very annoying. I think one lesson through all of this is that H is a workaholic and I've never been very happy because of that. I had put a lot of my life on hold around his work and work schedule (not all his fault, I should have realized what was happening and made changes myself)
Kids are doing well. They really aren't very clear on what's happening because H is still in the house. (I've continually asked him to move out but he won't...his latest excuse is that rental prices here go down in September so he'd like to wait until then)
I think H may be starting to realize what he's losing...but sadly, he can't verbalize anything and he won't do anything brave to try to save things with me or with the kids.
I did find evidence (found an old phone bill in the bottom of a pile) that showed H was texting with OW a year ago at this time. Their PA didn't start (I don't think) until early August of 2011...but the EA probably started a year ago from now. Doesn't really matter except to highlight how long this has been going on and how many chances H has had to try to make things right.
I'm keeping in touch with the guy I met in January...we've seen each other about once a month. We're taking things slow and both have major schedule issues with our kids (and are both prioritizing kids over anything else right now). I've also continued to meet a range of new friends. I can honestly say that for the most part--life is good. I feel lucky to have a great family, friends, career, my health, etc.
There is light at the end of the tunnel!
Today will be "interesting". H is back for a couple days and has been continuing to push on the idea of our kids meeting OW.
We are seeing a family counselor today to discuss this. I've told him I will only allow the kids to meet OW if we work with a counselor and they convince me it's a good idea. We are seeing a counselor recommended by my counselor who works a lot with kids.
H and I still haven't clearly communicated to the kids that we're divorcing. He is still in the house and besides his extensive "work travel"...hard for them to tell things are different. He thinks it'd be fun to take the kids to OW's city or have her travel here with her three kids to meet my kids.
She has three kids and is not yet divorced either.
I think it's too soon and our kids need their dad...not a whole new family. I would accept this if we had been divorced 6-12 months at this point.
He also told me he thinks it'd be good for the kids to see an example of a good relationship.
We haven't had an R talk for a long time and I told him how I think I've been incredibly patient with this situation and I have never bashed him in front of the kids. He's putting a lot at risk for a fun summer trip.
He's told his parents about OW. Interesting because I've also opened up to my parents about her as
well. I don't consider it "exposing" as much as being fair to our parents on why we are in a very difficult place. Plus, after a year, I'd argue it is what it is at this point...
He also told me he thinks it'd be good for the kids to see an example of a good relationship.
I cannot BELIEVE you didn't sock him in the jaw right then and there!
kml, I basically told him they likely do have a better relationship than us because he's making an effort with her. I then broke down and left the room. H called after me and I know it bothered him that I was upset.
We saw the counselor. H said he believes we're on the path to divorce and he wants to introduce the kids to OW and her family so they can start making some fun plans as an integrated family.
Our counselor was great. He said H needs to get out of the house NOW. I've been enabling him too long and men will take advantage for as long as they can. I've been trying to say this to H for several months but it was great to have the counselor say it.
Our kids need to adjust to H being in his own place for 4-6 months before he should even think about introducing OW to them. They need to understand that we're splitting...otherwise, they could blame/hate her.
H and the counselor both said I've been amazingly calm and supportive through all of this...H said I've been "fantastic". ("great"...really glad I'm hitting it out of the park as a betrayed spouse)
H left and the counselor said it'll be very interesting to see how he reacts to truly separating from me. He hasn't had to face the reality of having his own place. I think H is a little scared. Counselor also said he needs a schedule and it's been unfair to me that he comes and goes as he pleases.
H seemed to accept what the counselor said, but I am guessing he's upset. I felt happy after the session...finally getting some movement on this. But, I'm also sad. However, I can tell trying to work on anything with H would be wasted effort and I'm truly not sure I want him back.
Very glad we got the counselor's advice.
Dear Nblost
I have been married twice. In both marriages i was cheated on. In the first marriage, which was a total of 5yrs,(affair was 4yrs into m) my h told me he would not give up the OW so I kicked him out. We had a 1 yo son. He moved in with OW for awhile I think and then with his parents. Later the affair ended and I gave him a chance to work towards the marriage. For starters, to get a job. He had a poor work history and lied about things. Well he lied to me and said he was going to school and even wore a lab coat over to my house and gave me a big story about school which turned out to be false. This was over the course of about a year. By then I was done.
In the second marriage which is my current one (23yrs) my husband is going thru a MLC. He insists he is not seeing OW now. If I was to find out that he was, I would have him leave. I would NOT introduce my children to her. But you know what? My husband did introduce 2 of my children to her at her old historic church where she is on the parish counsel (what a great gal!) She also happens to be a coworker and H said he this was before he had the affair. Also introduced me at a christmas party which he said was before the affair.
I think your counselor is spot on. Your H must leave.
I am dealing with an MLC who had an affair and still lives in the house. I was thinking the same thing about crumbs. As far as his time and attention, thats what I am getting. My bomb came in Feb. So I am going to give it more time, but I so feel this way about the whole cake!
Nblost:
So good to hear from you - my thoughts often turn to you and your situation and my heart aches. I'm very glad your counselor spoke to your husband of the harm in having your children meet this other woman: what a piece of work she is. Not only is she damaging her own kids by pushing them to meet your husband, but she would intentionally do harm to them in wanting to meet them so soon.
But I sit back and think (this is my opinion only) that a part of the difficulties you and your husband experienced in your marriage was due to his frequent and extended absence from home. Will this change in the future if and when he decides to go ahead with this OW? I doubt it. He will continue to travel and this OW will then experience what you have to put-up with over the years - being a single parent: and I highly doubt she will enjoy it as she has been use to his undivided attention and presence.
Not only will she be looking after her own 3 children (I am surmising the husband will not have full-time custody [though for their well being he should]) but may also be looking after your three children at the same time. In future you children could be visiting with them, your WH goes away on business, and she is now watching after 6 children. The bloom is certainly off the rose.
She will very likely blow-up at him for 'leaving' her to fend for herself, and their 'now perfect relationship', will be come as mundane and everyday as the rest of us: mortgage payments; bills; day-to-day living. This scenario was not what they expected when they began their illicit relationship one year ago.
I hope for you and your children that the forcing of your WH husband from your home causes him to have a reality check and realize what he is losing-out-on. I'm also very certain your daughters will not look on him quite so kindly when they realize that he has abandoned not only you, but them. He will face hostility from them and be forced to realize his 'pipe dream' of a perfect ending is nothing more than a bunch of hooey.
At that point you will be in a better position to decide the outcome of this situation. It seems right now, that he is making all the decisions. It is time he has a very rude wake-up call.
I continue to wish you all the best and keep you in my prayers. Continue to enjoy the time you spend with your male friend and work on making yourself happy.
Rogerio
Thanks Rogerio,
I think H's life will come crashing down around him at some point. I feel like I need a huge break from relationship drama and he's got to be feeling a lot of it. He's trying to bridge directly from me to her thinking there won't be any problems.
The super annoying thing about my H's OW is that she's got a lot of money (from her father being a CEO of a large company and her husband's family founding a company you've all heard of). She is staying in the multimillion dollar house she lived in with her H. So, she has help with her kids and I'm sure would get help if my kids are ever there. H is also now full-time employed in her city...so he'll travel less for work...but he'll still need to come back here to see the kids (because I'm not going to move and make life easy for him)
H got his own place! His lease starts July 10. I am so happy that's finally happening. Our counselor thought that was a huge reality that had to happen.
I see my male friend tomorrow...I think it's been a month. Honestly, I'm spending most of my time with a few great girlfriends. Nothing serious for now and I have seen a couple guys at church that might be intersting to date at some point. But, I know I need some time to breathe and get stable again before I go into a new relationship.
The kids and I also got a new dog! She's been great and a good stress reliever. H actually really likes her too.
So, I have periods of sadness, fear, rejection and loneliness...but I'm surviving. I just try to keep focusing on myself and knowing that I have to experience the pain to get to the other side.
Nb,
I'm glad to hear that you are doing well. When I come to the boards, I always check to see if you've updated. I am always inspired by your strength under incredibly difficult circumstances.
There's no doubt in my mind that eventually your husband's fantasy world will come crashing down. I don't care how wealthy his ow is; money doesn't buy happiness. But that will be his problem and not yours to deal with, so just keep enjoying your own life and the time with your precious children. They are too young to understand what is going on now, but you are setting a fine example for them.
The tough times are to be expected, but it sounds like you are getting through them with a healthy perspective. Once you get to the other side, I have all the confidence in the world that AMAZING things will be in store for you!
Take care, ncl
H has been gone two weeks and won't be back until Sunday. On Sunday, his new place is available and he is going to start moving. He talked to the kids about it and they are excited. I was thinking it'd be a conversation we'd have with them together, but oh well. His new place sounds fun (of course...everything with him is) and I think he'll have them pick out some new furniture, etc.
I'm assuming he didn't talk to them about divorce.
I'm trying to stay strong. Tomorrow, I'll take the kids to a 4th of July event and then out to our lake house. We'll likely be alone to hang out and watch fireworks. We'll just stay a night and then come home. I need to go to a meeting/work on Friday. The 4th is hard because I feel like we've always done something fun as a family...this is the first year I'm alone with the kids.
H continues to feel so selfish to me and in his own world. I am just choosing to let it go. We have barely talked since we went to the counseling appointment.
I'm continuing to try to make plans with friends and work out. I think the new church I started going to is really a blessing. Some women from there invited me out on Sunday to hang out...one of the women is going through a divorce right now too and seems like a potential friend.
Any way, I guess life is quiet but pretty good. I really need to keep remembering how blessed I am.
Happy 4th everyone!
Your H has been around so little, I think that if you emphasize how little things are going to change from their current situation, the kids will deal ok with it.
They may struggle some once the novelty of going to dad's new place wears off, but really - how much will their lives change? He's already been "gone" for so long.
All you can do is be strong, let them see that you can cope and they can count on you, and that you can still have fun adventures as a family even without their dad there.
Great perspective kml...
The kids spent their first night with H last night at his new place. The oldest was with me until about 10:00 pm and I dropped her off. He has a lot of work to do to make his new place a "home"...but making him do it himself. He texted this morning that the kids were having fun...he lives near the ocean so they'd caught a crab and were having breakfast at a restaurant.
I feel good taking this next step. I think I should have forced it sooner...but maybe this route has allowed the kids to adjust better. Hard to know. I think I'll enjoy having the house and some time to myself (recognizing that I doubt H will really be here that often)
H texted me last night after I dropped off the oldest to say "I appreciate you". That was nice.
I think its impressive how you are handling this situation. It takes real strength and courage to move on with your life. I hope your rough times are few and your happy times continue to increase. It sounds like you will be able to adjust to your new life.
Hi NBLost,
How much contact do you have with your H?
Can't you take charge and tell the kids yourself that you're getting divorced? I know you've said you're an avoider and that will be hard but your H won't tell them because he isn't interested in divorce. He wants you and that piece of junk he's involved with.
You will do whatever you're going to do but I think pitch darkness i.e. uttermost blackness is in order, like Dr. Harley's Plan B. Lovingly tell him there will be no contact of any kind at all until/unless his antics end, then back it up.
Take the legal measures to get it all done, have all of his stuff moved, set up an intermediary for all communication relating to the kids, change phone numbers and email addresses then go dark and silent. Uttermost darkness.
His secret, 2nd life in the other city made this diaster possible. If there's hope for you this would need to stop, permanently.
My heart really does go out to you.
GH31
Also, I avoided telling my kids about my divorce from their father for months because I was so afraid of hurting them. In the end, it was much easier than all the fear that I'd built up about it and it really was a relief to have that over with. Just a thought.
Thanks for the input.
We had told the kids we were separating in January and H would be moving out of the house. He then proceeded to push off moving out even after I filed.
He finally moved last weekend. He took some random stuff and I anticipate will take more this weekend. He won't take everything because his new place is small (yet on the water in Southern CA so don't pity him too much...ha ha)
I think the kids are starting to understand and we now need to tell them. I think we both have a seed of uncertainty in us that's made us hesitant. And, I think deep down, we both don't view ourselves as people to give up on marriage.
But, we're here and I agree that his actions (and attitude) mean divorce. I have to keep moving ahead.
Our family counselor (who I loved) said he thinks H needs three months of living alone to know for sure what he wants. The earliest we can officially divorce is September so that will give him a chance to see what his new life is like.
I agree though that we need to say the D word to the kids. H should want to...it's the next step he needs to start building towards introducing them to OW.
We're pretty much at "no contact" now except around kid logistics. Although, last weekend when he was moving out, we were actually laughing together over some of the crappy stuff he was taking to furnish his new place.
I think the good news for me is that through this board, some smart things and some dumb things I've done...I've detached pretty well. I'm sad over the marriage ending, but I feel like a weight has been lifted. I feel free.
Also, H travels 2,000 miles away to OW's city for work. He's gone at least 5 days a week. Recently, he was gone for 2.5 weeks straight. We go for 2-3 days with no contact very often, and usually only connect via text about the kids.
So, it's pretty dark. He doesn't get any emotional or physical support from me anymore.
Nblost,
I just got caught up on your thread. I don't know what to say except my heart goes out to you. I so, so relate to what you are going thru and what you are feeling.
I am so sorry about this, but I also understand that at least having some movement in your sitch (H moving out), is a relief IN SOME WAYS.
I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers and I admire your strength.
I understand how you feel like a weight has been lifted. You have gone thru a lot.
(((hugs)))