It's been several months and my marriage has been up and down, but this time I feel pretty low. This forum has always helped me gain perspective and focus on what I need to do.
Right now, I'm not sure what's going on in my wife's life. We're together but she's still all over the place emotionally and very hard to read sometimes. She's been lying and covering up things about her drinking and phone use. A lot of this is triggered by how she feels inside and how she sees me as an obstacle.
We're still struggling financially even though she found a part-time job to help. The mess we're in, because of mistakes she's made in the past, has really put a monster load on us and she can't bare it sometimes. She'll dwell on her mistakes and blame and make things much bigger than they really are. I try to get her to open up and talk about it, but it's difficult to do. And because of her new job, she'll skip most of her NA meetings that she needs to go to for herself as well as to get her job back. She needs three meetings a week - logged. She's going to one, most of the time. So that triggers more anxiety in her because she is worried that the nursing board will ask for a time log of her meetings and she won't have what they require. In turn, that triggers even more anxiety because if she doesn't get her license she won't get a job and we will continue to struggle and not have insurance. She is carrying a massive burden and it's held in until I finally pull it out of her.
I'm working, but my salary covers the bills and just a tad for living expenses. We have to miss some bills ever now and then just to make ends meet. That also burdens her.
We had a falling out two days ago that really put me in the dumps. I think she is still in contact with the other man and I caught her hiding alcohol around the house. Heck, I didn't have to snoop (don't want to really) she's not good at lying or hiding. I usually turn a blind eye so we won't fight about it, but not sure what I should do now. I went cold a couple of days ago and this sparked a negative reaction with her. We talked and she said that she wasn't sure what she wanted in our marriage. She actually told me that I've become "too good" and she's not used to it. That I'm not the man I used to be and it's too uncomfortable. Just an excuse really. We did make up eventually and I started working on myself again.
See, to me, I've become lax. I don't really believe in God anymore. I gave up believing. Too many things have put doubt in my mind. We stopped going to church for the most part. We'll go maybe once a month to please my mother. She's a devout Christian - pentecostal. I've been battling desires to have an affair myself but don't have the balls. Women approach me and one in particular really fell for me but I cut that off. Not necessarily because I thought it was the "right" thing to do, but because she's not my type. I really don't know what I would do if a woman found interest in me that WAS my type. Thankfully that hasn't happened.
I feel that if someone came into my life I could walk away and give up on my wife. I'm tired of feeling duped and led on until the right time. I'm tired of working on me and us when she sits and dwells on her mistakes and possibly cheats. This feeling of being walked on has become more than I can stand.
But ... here I am, ready to fight again. That is, if there is any hope. I made a list of how to treat my wife in this time of need. I carry it with me and pull it out from time to time and read over it. I keep it out when I'm on the phone with her to stay focused. I've been journalling again to help me stay focused. Physically, I'm in great shape. I'm constantly training and eating right. I look half my age and that's real motivation. (I'm not bragging, honestly. I just feel that when a person is physically fit that's one-third of a balanced life. Now I need to strengthen myself emotionally and spiritually.) At the beginning of the year I made a list of things I wanted to accomplish to make myself feel better. Several things I'm really struggling with, but I'm slowly coming around. The older I get, the more set I am with certain vices.
One thing that I need help with right now is to not read too deeply into things. I want to see the small, positive things that are going on and let them motivate me. Yes, I want an answer whether or not she wants me in her life, but I have to settle for the simple fact that we are together for now. Is she ready to work on herself? That's something else that is real important. I sat with her one evening and we made a list of things that are deeply troubling her. I pointed out several things to help alleviate her anxiety about them. I hope by this weekend we can start working on them. Seeing that she wanted to do this was motivating as well.
She's working at night the next couple of days. It's painful because I lie and think about what she's really doing; if she's thinking about me, him, or whatever. My daughters slept with me last night and it was comforting. I love both of them so much. My youngest would struggle so hard if we weren't together. She loves her daddy and I think it would draw a line between her and her mother. She shows signs of this a lot. It hurts my wife and really encourage our daughter not to play sides. My oldest, who is also my step-daughter, would hurt but I think at her age and the fact that I'm not her real father would help her get over it. She loves me, yes. And I love her too. I raised her since she was 2. That was 14 years ago.
My wife still think I play favors. Maybe I do but I try so so hard not to because I do love my step-daughter. To me, I work them differently. My youngest is a daddy's girl and I barely have to speak before she's up and running. With my step I have to push and prod and threaten and beg and yell and cut myself and burn witches on a stake before she'll move. It's more of how she is than how I am to her. My wife sees it as favors. Usually I don't argue. I let it be and try to work things differently to keep the peace.
But, I sick and f'ing tired of working to keep the peace now. I'm a much more better man these days - these months. It's been almost 2 years. I feel run over. I'm holding a 50hr/week job, training 10-12hrs/week, holding up my wife, holding up our burdens, stressing over money, who I am, who she is, where we'll be next week (together or not), if she's screwing around, whether or not I want to walk and sow my seed out of spite, or just slit my friggin wrists.
There. That feels better.
After writing this yesterday I started to read "No More Mr. Nice Guy." Early in the book I found how closely related I was to this "Mr. Nice Guy" persona. My whole life I was told how pathetic I was as a kid. My father constantly told me how I was never going to amount to anything and how unmanly I was and how much trouble I caused. I never did anything right. I was put down, punished, and abused often. My mother was treated the same way so I always felt like I needed to protect her and love her and make her feel wanted. This raged my father even more and he would call me a momma's boy or a queer or whatever.
Growing up I was extremely guarded and never wanted to cause problems or confront anyone. Since I was always told how skinny, girly, and weak I was I never thought I could stand up for myself. Kids picked on me at school and in my neighborhood. Even my younger brother picked on me and would get his friends after me. For a good part of my childhood - before high school - that's pretty much all I could remember. Around 10th grade things changed a little and I became someone a few people could relate to. But even then I was always guarded. I did put on a good front, however, and began making more friends, having girlfriends and doing more things to socialize.
Here I am in my early 40s and I all this stuff from my childhood slowly leaks back in. My eyes opened to see how I am as a person, how I've always been really, and what molded me. I'm a protector - especially for women. If I see a woman who is struggling I want to help. My heart aches when I see a woman on the streets, or one who looks tired and abused, one who's on drugs and can't cope with reality. You know who I blame for that? The men in their lives. I see a woman driving a beat up car with a man in the passenger seat and I automatically assume he's lost his license from drinking and driving and she has to cart his sorry butt around everywhere. He's a man who isn't grown up enough to protect his woman and she's suffering because of it.
My wife sometimes sees this as a good thing. But when her mood slips, she uses it against me. For instance, she was really going through a fog the other day and the issue came up about a young girl that is friends with my youngest daughter. This little girl lives in a shoddy trailer with a mom and step-dad. The step-dad, from what I gather, doesn't work. All I want to do is grab that little girl up and bring her to our house and let her live. Twice she's had to skip field trips because she didn't have the money. Well anyway, during an argument with my wife she told me how weird I was for having these feelings for this little girl. My wife didn't really take in consideration the fact that I could relate to this girl in so many ways as a child. During our argument I didn't really say anything. I was pretty put off and angry that she would even think I had some 'weird' feelings for this little girl. A few days later I told her, pretty straight up too. I told her that when I was young my father was gone a lot on drug-fueled benders. He was hardly home and we were pretty poor. Several times I had to skip field trips and couldn't do things because we didn't have the money. We walked every where because we didn't have a car. Many times we didn't have a real meal on the table. We ate pasta with butter or biscuits and jelly - if we even had that. I told my wife that it was real pathetic to say what she said. She felt pretty bad.
Something else. There have been plenty of times where I see my wife as I see my father. Now, my wife is a real, real sweet lady. She loves helping people. She's very creative and smart and funny. But she's an addict. She can't deal with reality. When things don't go her way she turns the table and makes it the fault of someone else. Her words are extremely hurtful when she's upset and she would rather run than fight for what is right. My father was the same. He abused alcohol and drugs. His words were caustic. He made you feel less than human. He was never at fault. Never. He never apologize for anything. Still he's fueled by anger and selfishness. He's a very depressed man. He's never really stood up for his family only for himself.
Strange that after 14 years of marriage I'm really only now seeing this connection. It's like I'm living with my father but trying to protect my mother in this one woman that I married.
Those are really really important and true insights!
Now - have you been to Al-Anon? You need some help with these issues, especially since you are dealing with an active alcoholic wife. Your history explains why you were attracted to her.
It sounds like your wife really needs to go to rehab. Is there any possible way for that to happen?
I read Al-Alon books. My wife goes to NA meetings, and Aftercare meetings. She really tries to control her addictions but I think that's her problem. Control. She accepts that she's an addict but tries to push these feelings and failures down. Not many times will she really open up to her sponsor, to me, to friends, to family. She bottles up and hides. The anxieties, fears, and guilty feelings become way more than they are and begin to cloud her judgement. So, in turn, she wants to drink to feel good for a moment or talk to some other man. Eventually it'll come out and her guilt will turn to anger, resentment and blame. Then she'll start thinking that she's unworthy of being a wife or mom or friend and want to escape. Where's her escape? A drink or another man.
See, she has to be drug tested so hard drugs are off the list. Drinking is something different. Several times she's decided to stop - even picked up another White Chip to begin anew. But before long she'll get the urge and justify it by saying that if it's ok to smoke or drink coffee it should be ok to have a drink sometimes. I agree that there is a double standard in the NA community with nicotine and caffeine or even abusing OTC stuff. But I try to tell her not to look at what others are doing but look at what you feel is right - deep down inside.
I think you would really find the support of an Al-ANon group helpful. My best friend goes and I see how helpful it is to her.
Also - as to being Mr. Nice Guy - I think you really hit the nail on the head as to the origins of those impulses in your childhood.
I'll just say, one of the reasons "nice guys" aren't as attractive to (some) women, is because we're often hard-wired to like the alpha males. I guess because in primitive times, they could protect us. I'm a strong woman, but I really like a guy who projects the sense that he can and will take over the wheel, who'll call me on it if I'm being overbearing, a guy who won't let me run him over. It's not about chest-beating macho behavior - it's more the strong guy who stands his ground and deals with things, who I feel I can lean on in an emergency, that gets my heart going.
Thank you for your insight. I'm going to look into a local Al-Alon group. The problem is time management. With everything going on in my life, I'm pretty swamped. I may see if going on Sunday afternoons could be done.
Also, I'm learning more to be a stand-up sort of guy instead of worrying about confrontations. But I'm nowhere close to where I need to be for my wife and kids yet.
I do take charge more now. I think she's noticed that. But when I slip and don't take her side in something she'll let me know that I "NEVER" support her or stand up for her. Never.
Her thoughts are so absolute. I never help. I never support. I never treat the kids the same. I never do what I should. Never. Never. Never. And if I ask, "Never?" She'll say, "Yes, Never." In her mind I'm either completely on the left of things or completely on the right. I'm bound by absolutes in her mind. That is frustration.
Not sure how to act day to day. My wife is so hard to read. There is clearly tension between us since the last fight and her telling me she's not sure exactly what she wants. She says things through anger and/or guilt in hopes to cover those feelings and get my attention.
We're together and she likes to be close. She likes touching and feeling. She likes kissing and necking. But it could be that I'm close by and easily accessible. Or it could be that she does love me and wants me above all.
I've pulled back. This has caused the tension. No longer am I the gentleman who comes how and immediately goes to her and kisses her lovingly on the neck, hugs her and tells her how beautiful she is, holds her tight and tells her how glad he is to be with her. I come home and make it lukewarm. It's a cordial greeting, a smile, maybe a light hug if she comes up to me, but it's not like before. When we sit together, like last night, I sit on the end of the couch and be myself. I act happy and content. I'm nice and sweet, but I'm to the point and direct.
I fear this may be pushing her away. Fear guides our actions a lot. As a "Mr. Nice Guy" these current actions are a paradigm shift. Clearly, they are not what my inner-self is telling me to do. The strong voice is telling me that I will lose her if I continue these actions. The division will be so vast that eventually I will not see her across the chasm. She'll run to the other man and I'll be left with an ersatz smile and broken heart.
On the other hand, I'm hoping that if I pull away she'll eventually see what she's missing and what she really needs. This will draw her to me and open up.
We need counseling. She needs counseling. I need counseling. But we're pretty broke right now. I want her to see that regardless something needs to be done however. It's us (the whole family) that is important. Not just the money thing.
My questions to anyone listening; Should I continue to be slightly pulled back until she draws close to me? Should I pull back even more until she breaks and starts opening up? Should I pursue and romance her until she falls in love even more? Heck, I was even thinking about leaving until she really sees what it is she wants.
God, I miss grabbing her up in my arms and laying into her when I get home. I miss putting my face on the back of her neck and smelling her when we're in bed - her skin against mine. I miss the playfulness and smiles. I miss the comfort in knowing we had each other and could gripe about our teenage daughters, our dumb dog who we love so much, and talking about the things we enjoy so much together. Things we going so great and we were really drawing into one another's being.
Then she pulls away again. Her emotions rocked by reality and the guilt and blame. Her shame telling her how much she needs something new - a new beginning with someone else possibly. And here I am left ripped open as the part of her that was so intertwined with me gets yanked out.
Perplexing day, yesterday. I went out early in the wind and cold and trained for about 3 hours. My wife got up and went to work for a few hours to catch up on things. She had a full week working two shifts practically and barely getting any sleep. Plus she still managed the children's things at school and after. I told her how proud I was of her that she did everything she needed to do and barely uttered a sigh.
When I got home around noon I did a few things around the house and laid down. My daughters asked to rent a movie and watch it with their friends. By all means.
Later that day we were going to have a family meeting and talk to the daughters about a recent incident involving them, their friends, our car, and being really spoiled and unappreciative. Right now one of our cars (from an earlier incident) has battle scars where it had a fight with high speeds on a pitted dirt road. In the current situation we're in, it's hard to buy parts for expensive German cars.
When I got to my room I flipped on some mindless sports and rested. I so need rest. For several weeks I've been battling a nasty sort of cold and have been knocked on my backside. Competition is within a week and I'm nowhere near ready physically or mentally - or even emotionally right now. Guys I had been training with that day were coming up to me and asking if I was going. Last year I almost won the first race of the season - losing by inches. This year I figure that I've lost already. I'm not prepared at all. The sickness that I've encountered, the emotional attacks from my marriage, my spiritual dimming, etc. have all drained me and my desire to "toe the line" as it's called.
On the bed all I could think about was my wife. What was she doing, really? What was she thinking about while she was working? But as a paranoid man, I could actually picture her spending her time with someone else. In a less clouded reality though I didn't really buy into it. I turned on a fan, covered my head with a pillow, and faded to sleep for a moment.
One thing I'm battling with right now is outside expectations. My friends, my teammates, and others see what I'm capable of. They know my strengths and see what I can accomplish. Ironically I'm as weak a man as they come. Growing up and constantly being told that you won't amount to anything, how weak you were, how girly you were adds so much to your weakness that no matter how many times you hear otherwise you cannot buy into it. Even when you prove to yourself how good you are, you can see it as a once-in-a-lifetime moment or luck. Over and over you can see your strengths for a time. Soon, however, it's dashed against the rocks of past voices. I have this anxiety to prove myself to everyone and, honestly, I don't want to. I don't want to compete right now. I don't think I'm ready. I don't think I'll be ready for a while. But, we'll see.
As I rested my wife did call. Her voice was sweet, "Hey, Baby." See told me that she was heading into her next store and it shouldn't be too much longer. I told her that I understood and just to let me know if something comes up. Soon, I was off to dreamland again.
Jolted by something, I awoke and noticed it was getting late. The game I was watching was almost over. Home team was winning. But my wife wasn't home yet. It seemed late. The kids were still watching their movie - the sound of the loud TV booming off the wall near me. Anxiety began to fuel me again. She doesn't want to be home. She's might be meeting someone. Whatever my paranoid addled mind could make up spun out of control. Before long though she opened the bedroom door and stepped through.
She had this beautiful red shirt on. She looked so beautiful - always has. Yeah, she's put on a few pounds. To me it all went in to the right places. Her new jeans fit just right and her hair is getting longer again. I remained on the bed and smiled. "I didn't know you were done with work yet." She usually calls when she's heading home."
"I told D12 that I was coming home. Did she not tell you?"
"Uh, no."
"Well, what do you expect?"
"I know." She walked over to her side of the bed and crawled on, shuffling her shoes off at the same time. Sliding over toward me she started snuggling. My head immediately went to her neck and took in a deep breath. I kissed her and held her for a moment taking her all in with all my senses. The comfort of her being there was overwhelming. This. This is what I want. I want us to meld together in love and never separate. A connection that could never torn apart. Life though. Right? Life has a way of disassembling everything you put together, like a toddler with a hammer and a fragile model car within striking distance. Somehow I knew this won't last. But for the moment it did.
The evening went pretty good. We needed groceries and household things so together we went out. It was nice. It was normal. But I could still feel a coldness about it. We aren't right. We just aren't at a good place.
We got home, put the things away, and straightened up. Then we made a nice meal for us and our D12. D16 was gone with friends. Eating we watched our favorite show and my wife started drifting off to sleep. She had such a hard week. Soon, we went to bed and passed out. Three of us and a dog in bed. My thoughts rolled and tossed and crashed. Sleep wasn't coming soon - or late. My body was doing the same as my mind.
My wife slept a lot yesterday. She really did need it working double shifts and caring for things while I'm at work. I took care of the house and chilled out most of the day. When she did get up she decided to go to a meeting with her home group. I encouraged her to go.
Nothing really normalized until around 3pm when she got back home. By then we were talking about what dinner was going to be and what show we'd all watch.
At one point I did lose it with my youngest daughter. She as messy as they come. Every room she enters becomes a disaster and it would be easier just to cone them off and put up hazard signs, never to be used again. Constantly I was on her heels telling her to pick this up or clean that up. I looked down once and saw a spoon she had used earlier to eat peanut butter with. There it was, on her bedroom floor. Oh. And there's my flashlight she used, on her sister's floor. Oh. And there's her clothes from last night, in the floor of her closet. And her food dishes. And her cups. And her papers. Etc. Etc. Etc.
She 12 so it's not like I'm following a 3 year old around. This girl, however, makes enough messes for a full daycare facility.
Anyway, I finally lost it after the eleventy-billionth time of telling her to clean up after herself. I told her I was done hearing her "sorries" and wanted to see some action. My wife was there and when I walked into the kitchen she sort of gave me that look like, "See?" I nodded in agreement and asked if she needed any help with dinner. She had it under control so I just started washing the dishes she was done with.
Later we ate together and watch some TV together. Or oldest girl was out shopping for Valentine's Day and text that she was heading home. We were having a family meeting about some things that happened earlier in the weekend and wanted to hear their side of it too.
The meeting went pretty good. We aired our differences and talked about certain things that were bothering us with the family. The main point that came out of it all was, Respect. Respect each other, respect us, respect your friends, and respect all our belongings.
After that my wife and I went to bed and she started working on her first step in the NA book. This will be the second time she started this. She lost the first one, though really didn't get through it too far. We've decided to write up a plan for her to get to more meetings and finish her 12 steps. I told her I would help her only by encouragement and being with her as she does it. I believe she worked on it for about an hour. After that she watched some Housewife show then we clicked of the TV.
Neither one of us could sleep. Sundays have always been a problem for me to get to sleep. I guess thinking about getting the work week going again and early morning training. I mentioned that I had had a headache most of the day. She asked why. "Stress, I suppose."
"Stress? From what?"
I really think she's clueless sometimes. Does she not know that just a week or so ago she was once again telling me that she didn't know if we should stay together? That she doesn't know what she wants exactly? About her constant lying? About her highs and lows? About the bankruptcy? About the house? About the cars? About the kids? About me and how I can possibly mask the absolute pain my heart's riddled with? "Just stuff. I'll be fine. Good night." Good grief.
Even though I've been scaling my emotions back, I wrote a short story for my wife and kids for Valentines. In a kid's book fashion, it's a tale about two cute robots trying to hide their flaws. But when they meet, they actually don't notice each others flaws but their beauty. When I was done reading it they told me that they had to hold back tears. They all loved it.
I don't know if that was a good thing to do or what. My wife is tough to read. Should I romance her or step back. They both work sometimes and it puts me in a state of confusion.
Right now I'm trying to accept things as they are, myself included. But I'm working on things I can change about myself. Confidence is one of them. Also, a willingness to step back and give my wife space, encourage her to do things on her own, and get things accomplished that she's put off for too long.
Sunday, she worked on her first NA step. Tonight she'll continue. I'll be with her physically because we find that she does work on it and it sets her mind at ease.
One thing I'm really struggling with is racing. The season has started and I'm sort of ready to get in the mix of competition. But time management is rough. Also, knowing what is really on her mind about it. She tells me that she wants me to go, but I've heard it before only to get knocked over the head with it when her mood strikes.
"No. No. Go and race. It's what you love and I don't want to ever take that away from you," says the emotionally stable wife.
"YOU PUT THAT <bleeping> BIKE AHEAD OF EVERYTHING! ALL YOU WANT TO DO IS TRAIN AND RACE. SOMETIMES I WANT TO THROW THAT BIKE AND TRAINER IN THE WOODS!!!!!" Says the unstable wife when guilt or fear or trouble sneaks in her heart.
To let you all know, I train first thing in the morning during the week while my family sleeps. I get up, train, then get ready for work. I also, straighten the house, clean the dishes, get them up, get them what they need, do laundry, etc. Before I go to work. When I get home I'm hands on without complaint or thinking I need anything in return.
Saturdays I train with a group early in the morning and try my darndest to be home by noon. Heck, they are just getting up by then.
So ... I really believe it's more about jealousy and something to fall back on when she brings it up. Jealousy because she has a tough time motivating herself to find something she likes to do and doing it - with or without friends. I'm a motivated person. I get stuff done. I don't quit often. She hates that about me sort of, even though she says it's one of my best traits as a person, husband, and father (that's the stable wife's words).
But when she's hit by hormones, guilt, anxiety, and/or anger it comes out as the most troubling thing in our marriage. She'll tell me how much it's ruined things in our family. I listen while she continually pelts me with cheap jabs. Then I sulk away like a scolded pup who just had its nose rubbed in piss.
To let you all know, I train first thing in the morning during the week while my family sleeps. I get up, train, then get ready for work. I also, straighten the house, clean the dishes, get them up, get them what they need, do laundry, etc. Before I go to work. When I get home I'm hands on without complaint or thinking I need anything in return.
tpc,
Wow, you do an AWFULLY lot around the house. You may have already covered this in another post, but do both you and your wife work outside the home? What does your wife do around the house to help out?
Starsky
But, I sick and f'ing tired of working to keep the peace now. I'm a much more better man these days - these months. It's been almost 2 years. I feel run over. I'm holding a 50hr/week job, training 10-12hrs/week, holding up my wife, holding up our burdens, stressing over money, who I am, who she is, where we'll be next week (together or not), if she's screwing around, whether or not I want to walk and sow my seed out of spite, or just slit my friggin wrists.
There. That feels better.
TPC....I feel you pain! Truly. Hang in there....my H's thing has been going on since late 2008. Sometimes it feels good just to vent here when there is no one or no place else to do it.
Best, A.
Thank you, Abbey.
I blog because it helps me organize my thoughts and motivates me to keep going.
Last night my wife made a wonderful vegetable beef soup with cornbread. It was really delicious. I ate way more than I should have and threw down a piece of coconut cake as well. Valentine calories don't count, right?
Anyway. We sat together and watch one of favorite shows with one of our girls then decided to retreat to the room. I've been trying to get her to continue working on the first step of her NA book. Last Sunday she did it gleefully and worked on it a while. We wrote down a plan to work on it at least twice a week. So, last night I told her she should spend a few minuted on it so it's out of the way and the rest of the week was free and clear.
I could tell immediately she didn't want to do it. Over and over I tried to let her understand that I wasn't forcing her to do this. This was something she needed to do and I wanted us to approach it together for a while to help it become a habit. But she kept telling me that it did feel like work and I was making her do it. Her initial feelings in situations like this are to rebel. Softly but unmoving I continued to try and get her to see beyond her rebellion and just do it.
Eventually she did. But I swear, it's like I've got three kids at home. I have to fight all of them to get their chores done or do their homework or work on the NA steps or go to meetings or just do what has to be done.
She worked on it for a few minutes but really didn't put a lot of thought into it. These questions are intrusive. If you really wanted to open up you could spend a lot of time on one question alone. THAT is why she doesn't want to get into it. She cannot open herself up. She cannot give in to spilling herself all over the table for others and herself to see. It's what will keep her from breaking this curse. Unless she strips down and shows herself for what she really is nothing will really be accomplished. She told me that she just didn't have the motivation to do it.
Motivation to become transparent is her problem. It's easy for all of us to hide behind the shroud of dishonesty and plastic happiness. I don't know how to approach her about this but I have to at some point. Finding the appropriate time is going to be tough.
It's good to know her sponsor is a tough lady. She doesn't play into BS, but she's also my wife's good friend. I'm not sure if she will beat my wife over the head until she gives in or let's her just go about her business of continuing to fool herself.
The night did end with a bit of hanky-panky so ...
Now me. I'm still struggling with a desire to race hard this year. I want to move up in ranks to eventually race with the Pro-Ams. It's been a goal of mine for several years but when my marriage went to hell, so did my goals. It seems like the last two years right before the season started I get hit in the gut and have to rethink my goals and what I can and cannot do.
Last year I missed upgrading by just a few points. This year, I have no clue what's going to happen. I have to miss the first two races of the season because of a family thing - which I'm not really complaining about. My family needs all the gathers we can get to make us stronger. But I'm always looked at like a selfish prick if I want to take a Saturday to race.
My mother will guilt me. My wife won't until it benefits her in an argument. My kids will when they want to manipulate me. I listen and keep my trap shut most of the time. But one day I'm going to tell them to take a hike if they don't like it. Hobbies keep men sane. Male companionship is beneficial. Competition is a good way to relieve stress. Plus, I'm extremely fit, I have a sound mind because it doesn't get too clouded, I've learned to cope with forces against me because of it. I guess the stereotypical male is sitting on the couch, maybe cutting the grass on Saturday, watching sports, becoming fat and lazy. That's what they want, huh? Welp ... I'm here to tell you. It ain't happening.
Starsky,
I try to do as much as I can before I head to work. She gets up and helps the girls get ready for school. I want her to be at ease as much as possible so she can go to the gym (which I encourage) then go to work (part time).
But she taxis a lot and runs errands. Usually she gets home by 3 then has to turn around and pick someone up from cheerleading practice or something. Then she'll come home a straighten up and start dinner.
I want to be more active in the house duties than I used to be. It's become habitual now to do stuff before I leave for work.
Pitching in and doing your part is a GOOD thing.
Treating her like a princess, or putting her up on a pedestal . . . ehh, not so much.
If this is a "180" for you, then it's probably good. I just see a lot of supplicating behavior from you, and I'm betting that she doesn't see it as being attractive. I'd advise pulling back, JUST A LITTLE, and I think you've already identified where you might be able to invest the extra time.
Starsky
Tonight, if we get the time, my wife and I will be having a little chat. I want to set some boundaries. She's in this perky, little, happy-go-lucky, ain't-nothing-wrong, fine-with-the-world, mood. So, if I'm thinking clearly within a few days or weeks she should bottom out and tell me she doesn't know what she wants. If we're working on us then we need to work on us. We need to decide what it is we want from this and move forward.
For days now I've stepped back and treated her with a straight forwardness but with respect. She makes the phone calls. She comes to me. She pursues. I'm chilling the (blank) out and trying to right myself with myself. I'm trying to gain the strength I need to cope with whatever waits down the dark, cold path of reality.
She seems so nonchalant and carefree. To me it seems like she's under control and has it in her mind that no matter what I'm here working on us. If I'm doing it why does she have to bother. She can do whatever she pleases and I'll just puppy-dog around her with my tail wagging.
One of the dark matters here is, if she really is dealing with personal stuff that is not being addressed and I walk out just to get her attention I could clearly see her dropping so low that no one knows what she may do. She may sink deeper than ever and give up on everything - go back to drinking and taking pills. Her attitude would go back to where it was and hate herself and everyone around her. If that happened she would never work again and have to rely on someone else - if you know what I mean. The kids would suffer. Her family would too. And I would as well.
I feel like I need to hold her up, lead her even though she kicks and screams. But I have to put on this front. I have to be this stoic bag of bones. I have to give up on knowing anything that's going on behind the scenes.
This path is lonely. I have severed ties with God completely. Right now I'm doing everything on my own without help from anyone. No family. No friends. No God. The only good that has come from becoming agnostic or atheistic is that I don't have a weighty guilt on me that used to hold me back. Being pentecostal comes with a massive load of guilt, unworthiness, unrighteousness that keeps you from thinking anything good could happen. You pray, then make excuses as to why God told you, "No." You'd beg and ask for mercy only to continue hurting and telling yourself, "God's grace is sufficient." Constantly, your inner voice - or subconscious - would poke you with a sharp needle and tell you how unworthy you were for God to even hear your cries.
"Look at you. You don't tithe. You don't help others. All you do is think of your own problems. You don't go to church anymore. You aren't worthy of anything. You suck at being a Christian. You suck at being a husband. You suck at being a father. You're a lustful, selfish, self-centered, egotistical, worthless waste of a shell."
Endlessly I would pray for a feeling of worthiness. I would pray and ask God to tell me He loves me. And not just something lifeless like a quote from the bible or a stupid sign on a church billboard. Something personal. And it never came.
I came to a place where I thought, if my daughter ever came up to me suffering to know whether or not I loved her what would I do? I would gather her up in my arm and look her dead center in the eyes and tell her with the utmost honest loving voice I could muster. Why would I let my daughter suffer not knowing? I wouldn't. But God does. God makes you wonder. God makes you suffer. God steps away and acts lifeless, distant, and uncaring. As a God of infinite strength and understanding how could he not (as a personal God) tell you He loves you in the deepest most secure way?
It makes me wonder how many of his children took their own lives because of the emptiness they felt not knowing if God loved them. Is this the separation we hear about in the bible? Are we living it now? God has stepped away and we're really without his Spirit and love. He's testing us. Maybe this is Hell. We are all living without God's love. The chasm is boundless. We cannot reach God anymore. He's taken his people and we're what's left.
Sometimes my mind wanders to a place where it cannot understand - where it cannot find a purchase to hold. I'll think of such bleak loneliness that even I start to get sick on my stomach. Sometimes it's a place in which I try to understand the vastness of our universe, the insignificance of our existence in it, or the melding of timelessness and boundless space we float in.
There may be upwards of 500 billion galaxies in our universe. 500 BILLION!!!! Within each galaxy it's estimated that 10% of the stars contain a solar system. That means about 20 million could exist in each of the 500 billion galaxies. 20 million x 500 billion chances that there are other lifeforms. Directing my mind toward that makes me wonder if God is the God of all then He is the God of all we live in. If He is the one and only God then why is our one planet the only planet out of this unfathomable expanse that needed a savior? God's ONLY son. Only! Meaning, there was no other son to which God needed to put on a cross anywhere else in this cosmos for the sins of that world. And on that one speck of blue we've come to decide that only about 2.5 billion of us are going to heaven in this century. Now that's a pretty large number. But think of this. If we sliced the denominations down to the core beliefs then I would summarize only a handful of that number would go. How many people would actually profess Christ as their one true savior? A third? A third of the people on this one planet in 200 million x 500 billion solar systems are going to heaven because God decided to birth a savior from the womb of a virgin.
I wonder and question all this and try to place our mythologies in a cosmos that has no bounds and possibly no end to bearing life and no end to thoughts and discoveries. What makes our infinitesimal belief system the one true way? Then I just want to put a bullet in my head because my mind can't tap into all the possibilities that we're oh so wrong.
tpc,
That's why we are told to "trust in the Lord with all of our heart, and lean not to our own understanding."
Our puny minds cannot fathom the depth of God's intelligence, nor His love for us.
I'm sorry you're hurting. Instead of asking Him to SHOW you things, just ask Him to HOLD you . . . that always worked for me in my darkest times.
Starsky
TPC,
I have been off the boards for awhile and a little bird told me you were back here posting.
Good to hear from you.
Let me start by saying that I think that you are moving through a process currently and it is more about YOU than your wife or your marriage.
Your wife, your marriage and even your kids are the lens through which you are viewing YOUR LIFE right now. You are evaluating your life, your faith, your mental state, YOUR HAPPINESS through the people around you........
Try to stop that or at least shift it for a while.
So much of what you are communicating about YOU is external to you but yet you are internalizing it and letting it knock you off course.
I am going to paraphrase from a book I recently read that helped me. (BTW, No More Mr. Nice Guy is similar) The book I recently read is "The Way of the Superior Man" by David Deida. In his book Deida describes that as a man you should have some sort of ultimate purpose in life....and that should set your course in life, much like a ship in the ocean.
So Deida, says that we are the ship on the ocean and the ocean or more specifically the waves are our wives (girlfriend for me). Yeah guess what.....its no lala land of endless, magnificent adoration, affection, and sex out here in single land. I too still struggle with relationships with my current girlfriend, whom I love.
Anyways, the women in our lives are constantly trying to knock us off course. They do not do it consciously but make no mistake about it.....IT IS A TEST to see if they can change your course.
Case in point......you ride competitively. Sometimes your are encouraged by your wife.....sometimes not. You ride for you, for the benefits of health, mental and male bonding.....BRAVO!!! Congratulations on KNOWING what is good for you. WHY WOULD YOU EVER BE DETOURED FROM THAT?????? You go out of your way to not have this most important thing in YOUR life not impact your family. This is good also, however you are letting their TESTS effect you.
STOP. Do not listen to their words, watch their actions. Sometimes the actions take a couple of days to come out.....be patient.
More later.....have to run now.
Hang in there.
Cheers
Thank you guys. I really do appreciate your words - all of them.
I AM battling some internal stuff and externalizing them. I believe I'm reflecting all this inner torment onto those, and those things, around me.
This morning I got up to train and felt like hell. Last night I had a falling out with one of my daughters who is "growing up" at the moment. I was put in the middle of something because others don't think I'm treating all parties fairly and evenly. A bolt popped out and I went ape. Not physically. I just said a word I've never said to either of my children. After that I started kicking myself and had a horrible night.
In my life, things are out of whack. My training is suffering because I haven't found a proper balance of recovery and efforts. Racing starts this weekend and I'm no where near being ready physically or mentally.
I'm in the pit emotionally because my wife is so closed off and I don't know what she's thinking or doing sometimes. I'm trying to hold her up and motivate her to stay on course with her 12 step program, her meetings, the fear about losing our house, whether or not she's going to get her license back for nursing, staying on course with our marriage, etc.
I'm trying to find a balance with our daughters to treat them fairly the way I know how and the way they want me to. Both of them are growing up and becoming women and now I have three women who will be cycled together and I'm fearful of what may happen each month.
Both our cars need major repair. My daughter wrecked our Passat and it needs body work. My Audi needs new brakes. Since we lost 1/2 of our income we cannot afford major things and we sometimes wait until the last minute. All I can think about is what next with the cars. When will a timing belt snap? When will my brakes go out completely? When will one of the fuel pumps go out? When will a O2 sensor go out - Mine cost 300 to replace because they decided to hide it deep in the darkest regions of the engine where you actually need a portal to go through and find it.
Anyway ... as you can tell, I'm pretty baked in my head right now. So the God thing is just one element of what is really happening up there (taps noggin).
Sometimes I cannot render enough layers of protection to protect me from all the negative forces - internal and external. Yesterday I just wanted to give up and be mean and ugly to everyone. I didn't but I was constantly on the verge.
We had a great party the night before and I think I was really tired. The only downside was my wife wanted to have a few drinks. When she came home with beer it immediately put me on edge. Then several other people came in toting beer. I really didn't want to monitor everything going on but I surely didn't want my wife going overboard. Honestly, she shouldn't be drinking at all but I cannot really force her. So I decided to share one with her then keep an eye out every time she opened another. I believe she only opened one more, but slammed it so I wouldn't get my hands on it.
Here's a major problem I have when she drinks. This is how it effects us. When she has a few her attitude really changes. Her moods can swing violently. She gets real frisky and wants to get it on. But if things don't go as planned she gets angry, then starts crying, then starts talking about how bad things are between us. She'll bring up how it's always about me when we have sex. She says as long as I'm pleased then that's all that matters to me. And that's how it's always been. Always. She puts up massive walls and won't budge on her globalized statements.
My problem is, when she gets this way I don't want to be intimate. Not at all. She doesn't care if the kids are there or how loud she gets. It can get a little embarrassing sometimes. One time we were going at it - because, damn it, I better - and our daughter started crying because she didn't know what we were doing. I kept telling my wife to keep it down but she wanted to get louder and stuff. If we're alone, I don't care. Blow out your wind pipes. Go for it. When the kids are in the other room, let's keep it civilized.
If I don't perform to her standards then she'll let me know. We'll fight, she'll cry, everything I worked to fix will come crumbling down and she won't realize what she has done or even think that she did anything wrong. Her actions were justifiable.
So when she started drinking Saturday I knew we were going to have a problem. Then when the party started winding down I brought up the fact that I was tired. "You better not be tired!"
"Crap." I knew what that meant. My butt was on the line. I think I'd rather have several cameras around me with a live audience watching. Heck, even if it was my first time ever with the most beautiful woman I've ever seen. The pressure of making sure I do everything she wants to the standard she's expecting and finishing on queue is more than I can handle. Especially when I'm already mentally off because I know what's on the line.
I've tried bringing this up before and she doesn't listen. Her reasoning is, like I said, justifiable. So what if she gets a little frisky if she drinks. What's wrong with that? So what if she expects something out of me. It's always been about me anyway and she deserves something better. Oh no, I'm wrong about the emotional part. It's just that I upset her and that's what gets her angry then crying. And if she wants to have a drink she can. She's old enough to make her own decisions and do what she wants. What's the difference from drinking and/or smoking and/or indulging in coffee? If other drug addicts have vices she can have one too.
Today, it seems that she's a bit low. I want to lift her up to make her feel better but not sure how to. I'm trying to approach this relationship the right way. I've backed off a bit and trying to let her make the moves. But today I wish I could do something to make her feel close to me and good about her self.
Any suggestions?
I think she's low because she feels like she hasn't done much the past few days. She hasn't went to the gym, she hasn't worked her NA steps, she hasn't went to a meeting yet. I could be wrong. But it's what I feel.
Also, and I hope it's my problem, it's times like these that I feel like she wants to contact the OM - if she isn't already.
You sound like an empathetic guy, so the heart's in the right place. My first thought is - how are you doing taking care of you? If you're doing well physically, emotionally, spiritually, socially, etc... then you are in a healthy place to love her well. If you're struggling to stay afloat, take some action to get yourself in a better place.
My ears always perk up when I read someone's goal is to "make her feel..." something. We don't have that kind of power, so give yourself some space here. Offering her love, support, and encouragement is healthy. But it is an offer that she may refuse, so don't take it personally. What has felt loving to her in the past? You may want to start there.
Thank you.
And I agree, I can't make her feel anything. I need to keep that in mind at all times.
As for me, I'm doing OK. My only problem is confidence in myself and learning to change things that don't work. I tend to stick to things far too long. Things become habits quickly and then they become hard to let go of. Right now I'm in a transition period with a few things in my life - one of them is my approach to training. And I hate it. I fear change. It keeps me up at night.
There is a connection to this fear and my lack of confidence. If I change something I have it in my mind that it won't work and I'll fail.
I guess that's about it for me. I'm eating good. I'm sleeping good. I'm still training almost every day. Job's good. Got rid of this cold I had for a while. There are a few things I need to get done around the house however. Those are always on my mind.
It's fairly common to resist change, fearing that I might fail. What if you knew you would fail, even that you HAD to fail, ten times before you got it right. But, after the ten trials your growth was more amazing than you ever dreamed. How would you approach these ten failed attempts? You might dig in, get the trials over with to taste the success!
Remember, change is inevitable, but growth is optional! Go get em!
That was motivating. Thank you.
It reminds me of another quote I've read somewhere:
"Remember that one guy who gave up? Neither does anybody else."
For the past several days there has been tension. I'm told it's just me. But I don't really know.
Yesterday was my first race of the season. I got 5th. In my sport, that's pretty good. But the. Else ration was short lived. My wife was in a horri le mood all day. She was out with the girls shopping and you could here frustration in her voice any time we spoke. Then after we were all home she was sneaking off to drink. I could tell when her demeaner changed and later we her speach changed. She says certain things that I've noticed only when she's feeling the effects of alcohol.
It really. Brought me down. All night I tossed and turned trying to figure out whether or not I can deal with this the rest of my life - her drinking, lying, and talking to someone else behind my back. I'm losing hope and motivation.
If anyone is reading this and. An give me some insight, hope, motivation, whatever, I'd love it. I want to leave her, but I love her. I want her to come to a decision about us, herself, her career, our family, but it's not going to happen if I'm allowing her to do what she wants with a big smile on my face.
Sorry about the above mistakes. Typing on an iPhone.
tpc...have you ever tried an Al Anon meeting?
I've read books and was thinking about joining a group. Right now I can't wiggle one in, but I'm hoping to soon.
My real issue is her depression, guilt, and indecisions. One day she wants to be close and work on us and herself. The. next she wants to be alone or with someone else. We cannot afford a doctors help right now, but she does need it.
I do too. I have so much bottled up tension that I feel like I could explode. I started crying in the shower today. First cry I've had in a while.
I need some hope.
Should I 180 when my wife is having a tough time with depression? Sometimes I feel like this would make the situation worse. When she's like this she wants to drink (She did Saturday night behind my back), she doesn't know what she wants with our marriage, she's very snappy, and probably finds time to talk to OM.
I feel so alone right now. I cannot do anything to make her happy. This is something she has to work through herself. All I can do, and what I am doing, is try to make her comfortable while she fighting this. The thing is I cannot do anything right when she's like this. I was suppose to race Sunday but called it off because of the money. She acted like she was disappointed - and I know why. Or I assume I know why. There would have been a window for her to text the OM.
I am so ripped apart right now I don't know what to do. I want to leave her so bad just to get her attention. But I'm afraid it wouldn't work, Plus I don't have any place to go or the money to do it. There is so much going on in my life - our lives - that we're pretty much stuck. That fuels her to want us to separate even more. Her rebellious attitude totally goes against what needs, or has, to be done. If we have to stay together she doesn't want to. If we have to work on our marriage it makes her not want to. If she has to work her steps she won't do it. If she needs to stop drinking it makes her want to even more.
This is a terrible place she's in right now. It could be temporary. It could last a long while. I don't know. I just know that she's in a dark place like before. Her mood shows it. This hopelessness she shows sticks to me as well. I'm trying so hard to keep my chin up and show her a happy man but I've lost it right now. I need motivation to do it now. I need to know that if I can 180 she will take notice and want to work to get out of her funk. She wallows in it and she looks at me like I'm in the way of her happiness. I'm the roadblock. I'm the trap in the path toward her perceived better life.
The nursing board told her she needed to keep going to After-Care another 6 months and choose a different course. The one she was going to wasn't board certified. We didn't realize this. So ... I guess they knew it all along and decided to wait to tell us.
My wife was pretty bummed. I'm worried this will trigger another episode of depression. She expressed that she really didn't know why she had been feeling this way for the past several days. Maybe hormones, she said. I think it has to do with guilt and lack of confidence.
Coincidentally, I decided to change my approach yesterday even before she called me with the bad news. So I hit her with several key pieces of advice that, I believe, hit home. I'm really trying to stand tall for both of us. I'm really trying to be a positive influence on her regardless of how she is toward me or how she feels about me for the moment. I say "moment," because her moods change with the tides.
She continually tries to find happiness from external sources. This does nothing but either helps her for a minute or keeps her in the dark hole she's sunk into. She cannot change anything that happens to her, but she can change how she reacts to every situation.
Regarding the bad news, I told her that this could be a motivating factor in her life. For 2 years now she has only slightly fulfilled her requirements the nursing board laid upon her. I told her that the path is open for another 6 months and she can slowly develop a new game plan to attack this the right way. He NA meetings can be something extremely beneficial if she chooses to attend more than once a week. She can develop a better, more open, relationship with her sponsor. There is hardly a soul on this earth that she really opens up to and this lady is perfect. She is to the point, no holds barred, punch in the gut, in your face about everything. I totally dig her. My wife, I think, finds it tough to open up to her for those reason alone.
This time also gives her the opportunity to keep at her steps that she won't work on. I laid out a plan for her and told her that I fully support her time that it takes to work on this and will be there for anything she needs. Unfortunately, these steps delve into deep places within her and she hates it. I've helped her plan out a lot with these steps, with her sponsor, with her meeting, but I cannot force her to go. I can only encourage and support her. Once I start forcing her she immediately goes into rebellion-mode. So ... I plan it out the step back. That's all I can do.
With my training and racing I plan out day to day what I'm doing on and off the bike, in the kitchen, when I go to bed, when I nap, everything. I love lists and guidelines. My wife doesn't. She has always gone about this spur-of-the-moment. She procrastinates. She waits and hurries. If it doesn't work, F* it! Move along and find something else that will. I try something for a while then decide if it works or not. I can spend weeks or months on a program before moving to something else if I feel it isn't what I need. If my wife doesn't see results within days, it ain't working. Which is odd because she quite patient with things, while I'm let's get this done now type of guy.
Yesterday, after lunch, I sent her tidbits of advice and heart-felt quotes to help keep her from going down the hole. I think it worked - yesterday. She seemed a bit upbeat closer to the time I was leaving work to meet her at our daughter's school event. She was close to me when I was there, touching and looking at me.
As for me, my approach is a little different to her. When I 180 it seems she walks away from me emotionally most of the time. She shuts herself off. When I treat her as a guy trying to seduce her, so to speak, she really opens up to me and lets me in. If I'm a bit romantic, yet mysterious, she is accepting. If I show a general interest but not act overly pathetic she responds. When I'm strong and confident and act like I'm pursuing her a bit she acts like it's what she wants. She seems to want to be seduced. She likes playful banter. She likes to see interest and genuine smiles. She likes the occasional touch or kissing or neck rub.
Last year when she was visiting relatives I sent her a love quote or poem every morning when I got up. She responded positively to this. When she got home we were closer than ever. But it wore off after a while. Reality, you know? When you're home you're forced to face your life and all its ugliness. I tried to stay positive and supportive. Eventually though, she started going dark again.
I think I need to slowly seduce her again to get her to see how important she is to someone. She needs to see how full her life is and that this outside BS doesn't change the fact that she is a living miracle and that her blood - her life - flows in two other living, breathing, miracles as well. I told her yesterday that, just for a moment, she needs to see all the beauty and perfection in our daughters. She needs to witness all the joy and happiness the exude. Look at their creativity and majesty as life produced from her. Remember their smiles each day. Remember their tears. Remember their pains and anguish. That is life. A life we gave them. The blood that warms them each day came from the same wonderful, beautiful, creative, living creature. Her daughters are reflections of who my wife really is. It's not the dark ugliness her mind tries to manifest when things don't go her way. Our children have a freedom to express themselves without remorse or fear. They can laugh and cry and spit fire all in a matter of minutes based on what life throws at them. But generally they jump and cheer and laugh and have a peace we need to recognize and should attain.
This is a freedom adults forgot to hold on to. That happiness our children have should never be squashed. It is a happiness not from an external source. It's internal. It's based on a freedom to live with a peace knowing not what lies ahead but what "is" at that moment.
My wife admitted to her drinking problem. Honestly, she doesn't drink much, but she does hide it and lie about it. She opened up and talked about the viscious cycle she keeps herself in with constantly trying to find external sources to make her feel better, then feeling guilty for it, then putting herself back into a dark place and looking for something to feel better.
The past two days she's been upbeat. Last night I went with her to celebrate her sponsor's 9 year clean date. The speaker that night gut-checked her. We talked about one key point on the way home: opening up and laying it all out to someone and accepting help.
It's our 14th year anniversary.
Things have been going pretty smoothly lately. After confronting her about hiding bottles and her drinking she's been more open.
Me on the other hand, I've been a bit ill-mannered. Especially yesterday. But that was yesterday and yesterday is over. Today is a new start. Some of it has to do with everything I've got going on and dieting to get back to my race weight.
This morning I set roses on the coffee table with some of her favorite snacks and three cards. One for her and one for each of my daughters.
tpc,
Try not to go overboard with the mushy stuff. Best to have small gifts from your kids, and keep yours to maybe a funny Shoebox card and a small gift card for something practical.
You're pursuing.
Starsky
Hey, tpc,
Continue to do what has worked - a bit romantic, yet mysterious; strong and confident - this is THE GUY that has drawn positive responses from her. You've obviously dones some things well, to give her a safe place to be honest. Keep doing what recharges your batteries to have fewer "ill-mannered" days!
This road is tough to travel because it seems I've got to have game-on all the time. There is no time to relax really. I'm constantly working.
I've been working on me a ton, bettering myself in tons of ways. What I'm really trying to do is break the attachment between my good feelings and how she is.
Update, since it's been awhile.
We're still together, still working on things. We both have our ups and downs and both agree that life sometimes just gets tough and it ain't all rainbows.
Yesterday we got into it but I tried to ease us off the blame game. I was scheduled to train that morning with several guys but opted out because of the rain. (What I told them.) Actually, it was all the stuff going on at home. Our dryer died, my yard is a mess from a ton of rain, my weed eater died, we just got a new lawnmower because that broke as well, my daughter's room is in shambles from a full-on renovation we're doing, my wife got a hand-me-down table and chair set that needs sanding and refinishing, plus the house is just a mess. That morning it all came to the top and just beat me over the head. I couldn't check what broke on the dryer because my multimeter broke. I couldn't finish the yard because it was raining off and on. I couldn't finish my daughter's room because there's so much more to do. I couldn't finish the table and chairs because I need to borrow a good sander. Then on top of all that the brakes on my car started grinding. No warning. Just went from good to screw you.
My wife saw that I was in a mess mentally. Yes, I was ill. Not at anyone just at the situation. I like to compartmentalize things and finish them. I couldn't because it seemed that there was at least one thing holding me back from getting the job done. She thought it was because "I" was ready to work and "I" wanted everybody else to be ready. Nope. I told her she was wrong then she basically called me a liar. I then went on to blatantly state that our conversation would not continue if every time I stated one things she told me flat out that it wasn't true. Either she believes me or she can walk away.
Then she told me that I was ill because I had to cancel a training ride and that if that was the case I should have gone so I wouldn't be this way. I told her I cancelled it because I would have felt like hell if I was out riding while all this stuff was piled up. But then she told me that I didn't consider anything yesterday while I was racing. I said that nothing really bothered me until I noticed my brakes were grinding then when I got home and noticed the dryer stopped working. Things went from bad to worse and this morning it really hit me.
I also told her that yesterday when I got home we immediately went to work but I wanted to take her out to eat then a local NA meeting. I'm glad I did. We both enjoyed our time together.
She was in her mode. The I'm not buying it mode. So I cut us off from going at it and went back to work. Eventually things settled down and I finished a part of the room then went outside to work on the yard with the family. We started making headway, then it started raining. Sheesh. We continued a little more until I saw a snake and everybody but me went running. I believe it was a baby black snake. I could tell by the color - or lack of color. So I went searching through the area we were working to find it. But the rain kept coming and we went in to work on something else.
We started sanding the table by hand for a while but I really started getting tired and laid down to watch the race and take a nap. But no sooner had I laid down then the sun came out. Being the person I am (not letting anything go undone) I got up to go back outside. The grass was wet but it needed cutting, so I pulled out the lawnmower and went at it. Over by the area we were pulling weeds earlier I spotted the baby snake - I guess warming itself. Quickly, I darted over and cornered it. I asked me wife to throw me a glove. The little fella coiled its head to strike but I laid my gloved hand on it and picked it up. He didn't even try to wriggle free. So I walked him over to the edge of the woods and let him go.
The end of the day seemed more cheerful. We did get a few things done. We took our clothes up to the laundry mat and dried them while we went next door to get some groceries. We cleaned the house. I called me father in-law who used to own an appliance center and he left me some parts to try on the dryer. That'll be worked on tonight. I finished all the trim in the bedroom and pulled the tape. We only have one wall left. Then it's onto the floor where I'm pulling all the carpet up and we're going to do something crazy to the concrete slab.
We did make up eventually. All day I just acted normal and not huffy about anything. Yes, there was a lot on my mind. At a certain point when I get overwhelmed, I get serious.
For the past several days though I have been suspicious about my wife's behavior. I couldn't put my finger on it, but we did talk about it. I keep mentioning honesty and how I really want "us both" to be open. I also told her that if she feels the need to drink, then let me know. I'd rather know when she wants to then later when she's sneaking off and getting drunk. She agrees. There were a couple of times I couldn't tell whether or not she was just going hormonal on me or drinking. Sometimes when she gets in one of her down-moods she can almost act strange in a sense. She never acted drunk, just spacey. I dunno.
On the plus side, I've raced several times and have come home with money. I also go my upgrade to race in the Pro-Am field. It's been a goal of mine to get there. Now that I'm there it's kind of scary. These guys (kids) are just crazy fast. The races are a lot longer, the speeds are ridiculous, but the payouts are great. My first race was an eye opener. At one point I did think I could pull off something spectacular then reality hit me with two sledge hammers to the legs and told me to back off. But I loved it.
I couldn't finish the table and chairs because I need to borrow a good sander.
tpc,
Have you looked on CraigsList for a used orbital sander? A decent new one is only $75 - $100 or so, but my wife and I found one on CL for $20. It's a DeWalt, and in decent shape. It didn't have the dust bag, but I found one online for like $8, and it all works perfectly. My wife has gotten the refinishing bug, and is doing our game room coffee table, two end tables, and a cheap table we bought at a garage sale for $5, just so she could practice on it. She's wanting to get good enough before she tackles our kitchen table.
Starsky
Thank you. I will look for something like that. Nothing listed yet, though.
We had a pitfall yesterday. I showed her how upset I was knowing she has not been up to date with her calls for testing. Even though I'm not pushing her to get her nursing license back (honestly I want her to do what makes her happy in her career choice) I do want her to continue to do the easy things so it will remain an option. She's shooting herself in the foot by not calling, not going to meetings regularly and not staying on top of her NA steps. She's basically given up - or gotten to a point where she doesn't care.
Should I talk to her about it? Maybe if I fully understand where she's coming from I can be less upset. But right now I figure she's not doing even enough for the board to look in her general direction.
Plus, I think she's going through one of her spells or something. She's become distant and moody. Or uncaring. Could she be in contact with OM? I don't know. Maybe. I don't chase her down to find out. I tell her where I stand on it and that's all I can do. She's a liar though. A big one. She'll hide things and lie to cover her tracks. Usually I can tell. I'm in limbo right now - not know what's going on. Just that she's distance herself from me.
The ups and downs and stress (and not showing my stress) is really getting the best of me. I feel it all the time. Suppressing it makes it worse sometimes. Being in a constant mode of cheerfulness is a struggle. What does she want? What should I do? Where should I turn?
I want to be settled and comfortable for a moment so I can recover from this battle-ridden fatigue. She's in control of our situation and she knows it. She can manipulate the path we're on. I need to get off this path and be me. I'm tired.
Plus, I think she's going through one of her spells or something. She's become distant and moody. Or uncaring. Could she be in contact with OM? I don't know. Maybe. I don't chase her down to find out. I tell her where I stand on it and that's all I can do. She's a liar though. A big one. She'll hide things and lie to cover her tracks. Usually I can tell. I'm in limbo right now - not know what's going on. Just that she's distance herself from me.
The ups and downs and stress (and not showing my stress) is really getting the best of me. I feel it all the time. Suppressing it makes it worse sometimes. Being in a constant mode of cheerfulness is a struggle. What does she want? What should I do? Where should I turn?
I want to be settled and comfortable for a moment so I can recover from this battle-ridden fatigue. She's in control of our situation and she knows it. She can manipulate the path we're on. I need to get off this path and be me. I'm tired.
tpc,
You cannot control her moods, and it's not your job to cheer her up. You are still WAY too focused on HER, and not on your own life, your own goals, what makes YOU happy and fulfilled. I realize -- we all do -- that "a happy, faithful marriage, with my wife" is likely one of your BIGGEST goals, but it cannot be at the sacrifice of all the others. That's not happiness; that's
co-dependency, and it's not healthy or good.
Leave your wife's career goals to your wife, and set out on an aggressive improvement plan for YOURSELF. Your mode with her should be "How can I help?" and to listen and to validate -- nothing more. She will let you know what, if anything, she needs from you.
What I'm recommending carries the double benefit of making YOU happier/healthier, and also BUILDS ATTRACTION.
I know you already know all this, but I hope maybe it helps to have an outside perspective.
Starsky
It does. And that's what I kept trying to tell myself this morning. I guess sometimes it all flies back into my face when I fear that I'm losing her.
I write a lot - almost everyday. I journal and try to focus on what I need to do to be happy. And as much as I see it, I usually go back to what I can do to help her. Sheesh. I do need to separate my happiness from what she's feeling at the time.
Thank you
How do I work on anxiety related to trust?
I'm constantly seeing things through tinted glasses now. Just about every instance where my wife is doing something unusual I question whether or not it's because of the OM. Some days it's better than others, but lately it's been pretty bad.
Last night we were outside doing yard work and she went in to do something and get us some water. When it took longer than I thought it should I automatically figured she was texting or talking to him.
Today she said she was staying home to get some things done, again, I thought it was to talk to him.
How do I stop letting this get to me negatively? I mean, I know these thoughts will creep in, but I need help to not let them control me - and ultimately unnerve me.
Tell me if this is a wrong approach:
I've been doing a lot of self-evaluation. I realize I can come off as needy, clingy, paranoid. These attributes would never work in the dating scene. Why would I think they would work in making my wife want me more than anything else?
If I'm weak, she senses it. If I'm not attractive in every aspect of my life she will not pursue. I need to be on top of everything in this. I need to be alpha - of sorts. It's my choice to be confident or not, attractive or not, strong, decisive, funny, calm, soft-spoken, etc.
In becoming all these things it becomes her loss. I should become such that I think, is she even worthy of me? Look at everything I have to offer. It's my power and I won't give it to her - or no one for that matter.
No longer will I let paranoia control my thoughts. No longer will I let anxiety rule my actions. She will do what she wants to do and if it's lie and cheat then that's her choice. If I'm not in "Game On" mode then she has no reason to do otherwise. I have to want it so bad it hurts. It's my goal to make her need me, not the other way around. I have to be everything she would hate to lose.
But by being needy, clingy, soft, she really has no need to change or pursue me. I'm there in her face. And when she sees me she sees a weakling.
No longer.
I'm stepping back and starting over. Worry, doubt, fear, paranoia will be weakened by starvation. When I feel these emotions creep in I will do everything in my power to starve them. I will not feed them any longer. Today I am going to walk a little taller, sit up straighter, shoulders pulled back, chest out, with a slight smile, be a little funnier, speak a little softer, be more conscious of my surrounding, be a people person, a guy others are drawn to. I will dress better, smell better, eat better, work out better, sleep better, BE better.
In the end, it's her loss if she chooses to lie and cheat. Ultimately, I will gain more by being a true bad-*ss in all of this than anything.
Oh ... don't get me wrong, my goal is to make her want me than she's ever wanted anything - ever. But it isn't going to happen unless I become the "IDGAF" guy. I need this more for me though. Right now.
Had a big talk with the wife a few days ago. It did make me feel better for the moment.
I've been fed up living like something is going on behind my back. I don't need to stay in a marriage where on one end it's open because I'm too much of a door mat to do anything about it. My wife and daughter were talking about the wife of my daughter's boss. Apparently she messed around on her husband and doesn't take her issues seriously. She flirts and jokes around about it.
For some reason when my wife and daughter were talking nothing really came up about how wrong she was for doing it, and it sounded more like a joke as well. Sort of, "Ha Ha ... Oh well." It kind of put off and after my daughter left I confronted my wife about it. Is infidelity of any kind a joke? Do you not see what kind of pain this puts on the spouse? Or how it corrupts trust and breaks down the structure of marriage?
She claimed that she was never really thinking about it like that during the conversation. Maybe not. Maybe I'm too weakened by it and it's a subject I don't toss around jokingly. Maybe I'm too paranoid and read it wrong.
But then I said something. It sort of just spilled out and I didn't fight it back. I told her that if there is still something going on, whether it was physical or even phone texting then F! you. I said it with authority. I told her that I didn't need to just hang around while she F's around until she makes up her mind. I need to get my crap and leave if that's the case. Tears started welling up and my voice started cracking. It was either from fear or anger or both - I don't know. A whirlwind of emotion surrounded me.
A while back she said one reason she couldn't move on was because of our financial situation. It held her to me because she couldn't get a decent job and support herself.
I mentioned this and how it played on my mind a lot. What she had said triggers these fears of her just waiting for the right time to move along while I wait and wonder. She tried to assure me that wasn't the case. Also, she was set aback and a bit upset that I spewed all this and made accusations based on not much at all.
After we cooled down, I did feel better. Today I'm trying to continue to work on myself and be a great man regardless. Though I struggle continually with paranoia. This has been the toughest battle. It's been a tough battle all my life actually.
My wife and daughter were talking about the wife of my daughter's boss. Apparently she messed around on her husband and doesn't take her issues seriously. She flirts and jokes around about it.
For some reason when my wife and daughter were talking nothing really came up about how wrong she was for doing it, and it sounded more like a joke as well. Sort of, "Ha Ha ... Oh well."
Isn't this a little inappropriate of a conversation for a mother to have with a 12-year old???
Starsky
I agree, starsky... I think it might have been with SD16 but I think it is a little inappropriate at that age, as well...
I adopted my D14 when she was 2. My W and her already had a well established co-dependency by the time I met them. It has been a long, uphill struggle to build a healthy, independent relationship with D14 over these years, but within the last few years things have really got better...
But in the mean time, my W has really had very... at best I would say, lax boundaries... when it comes to D14... through all the years...
Whether it be music or movies that were rated well above D14's age... or whether it was inclusion of D14 in "adult" conversations or my W not being careful about conversations when D14 might be in ear shot...
Sure, it's part of growing up... being with your parents at an adult party and hearing or seeing stuff that is a little too adult for our young years...
And I will tell you, it is hugely frustrating when I saw or now hear that my W is having these types of conversations with D14 (and even D9, sometimes; although with D9, there are more mature boundaries)... that my W's morals and ethics do not match my own... and there is nothing I can do about it...
So the only thing I can do is, when possible and appropriate, engage D14 (and D9) in conversation and pay attention to what their moral compasses might look like... if I feel they could use a little adjusting, then I give my thoughts on a subject such as infidelity or love and commitment or judgement of others or lying... you get the idea...
From what I read above, you reacted in a sitch based on a context that you perceived... all that tells me is that you might work on your detachment some more...
and also, tolerance...
While you may not agree with your W's morals and what she is instilling on your kids... All you can do as a father is to share your own belief systems with your kids and hope that a good balance sticks... but that even without the influence of you and your W, your kids will come to their own morals and so tolerance will be important to maintain your relationship with them...
Make sense? I hope that helps, in some way...
I just want to add that you want to be careful and clear that what ever you DO say to your kids, it does not get twisted into (or is not intended to be) a judgement or offence against your W...
Not good if your kids think you are attacking their mom...
f.t.r., I think 16 would be inappropriate as well.
Kids have no clue as to what happened or is currently going on.
I think my youngest daughters suspected something early on when my wife was texting secretively.
As for now, though, we talk when we're alone. We never argue about this stuff in front of them. I want nothing more than to know they are comfortable knowing we are together.
Ah, what to blog here?
About my weaknesses? My paranoia? Subtle clues my wife leaves that spur on the paranoia? The fact that I wish I was strong enough to leave because I don't want to deal with it any longer? What?
I had a four-day weekend. Most of the time was home improvements and training. My wife and I were hardly alone. Kids are home for vacation and it's tough to get a moment of peace. But that is life of a family and it's good to just appreciate the fact that we are all together.
I'm really trying to work on strengthening my mind. As long as I can remember I've always been sort of a paranoid person. Always. Slam me with some drugs and I become Super Paranoid Man. That's one reason I stay away from them. At one point this weekend I tried to make the decision to not look too deeply into what my wife was doing and whether or not she's leaving a trail of evidence behind her leading me to see her infidelity. Honestly, the evidence is subtle - but sometimes subtly can scream like a Howler Monkey. Other times, she wants to be real close to me. She wants to snuggle up to me and relax. Sometimes she wants to lay her head on my lap while we watch TV for a moment. This draws confusion to me. Does she want me and us, or does she want out?
She says things that makes me feel like our marriage should always remain open to whatever happens. Stuff like, "Whatever happens to us, I'll always love you."
"Whatever happens to us?" Whatever do you mean? I'm at a point where I desperately need some verification - or just tell me that's it's over. I'm sick of the games. One hand on us. One hand on something else.
My wife likes to run from her problems. She's not one to stay and fight. She blames herself for failures, yet she does nothing to change or break the habits. In her mind, she's failed at nursing because she lost her job due to drug abuse. But she didn't work hard enough to make it right when she had the opportunities. She failed at another job opportunity because she didn't work hard enough to keep the door open. She was too worried about rejection when she had to make phone calls day after day. She failed NA (sort of) because she doesn't want to go often enough to make it work for her or continue her "steps." She's failed our marriage because she doesn't want to let go of the things that keep a wedge between us. She's failed herself.
And here I am trying to sugar coat all of it to help keep her chin up. But as much as these things scream at her in her mind, they scream at me as well. They tell me to run - the exact thing she does when things get tough. The exact thing that I hate about her.
If I had the opportunity. No. If I had something, maybe someone, to get my attention and take it away from her I would probably jump. All I see is a cloud of discontent over me for the rest of my life if I stay with her. So far, nothing I've tried has really worked to get her attention off walking away and/or someone else. It's been almost 3 years and I'm still wading through the same murkiness that I did the first year. Oh, I've changed. I've changed drastically and whatever happens to us I'm staying like this. Whoever grabs my heart is going to find a great man. That's all I can say about all this right now. I see things in me that I would have never guessed I'd be doing several years ago.
Her loss, I guess. But how long to I stick around? What do I need to gain the strength to walk away? I don't have that strength yet because I still love her deeply. And that sux more than anything else.
Today, I really hate myself.
If I had the opportunity. No. If I had something, maybe someone, to get my attention and take it away from her I would probably jump..
tpc,
Can you see the unhealthiness of that? You'd be jumping from one relationship to another, and in each one looking for SOMEONE ELSE to "make" you happy.
Only YOU can learn to become happy. Otherwise, it's not love, it's co-dependency.
Somehow, you've got to find tpc again. What makes him tick, what makes him fulfilled, what makes him happy. That is the "meat" of your life; your wife (or some other future relationship) should only be the "gravy."
Starsky
I don't think I've ever found him. That may be the problem.
I am finding new thing in me that I've never seen before. But, me as a whole, not sure who he is.
Most of that was just trying to find an escape plan. In a way, I want out. I want to leave her until she figures herself out. She's not happy and relies on a lot of other things to make her happy temporarily. Coincidentally, I guess I'm the same way of sorts.
I need someone to talk to outside my marriage, but I have no one. Most of the guys I know are competitive cyclists and this type of stuff bounces off of them. They have no time for it. I dare not speak to anyone close to my family - or my family for that matter. No one needs to judge me or my wife for what happened in the past or is happening now. I don't want anyone treating either one of us differently. As for counseling, we can't afford it. Not right now at least. Her car just went into the shop and I don't think we can even afford to get it out. It's going to cost a couple grand. I almost lost my head when the shop guy called.
Anyway. I totally hear what you are saying. And believe me, I agree whole-heartily. I'm still looking for tpc. Still looking.
Thank you.
Do you have any sort of an EAP (Employee Assistance Program) thru work? Those often have free counseling benefits attached to them. The Catholic diocese in your area (and probably others) may have sliding-scale counseling as well, and it's not religious-oriented (unless you want it to be).
You are a very introspective guy (that's good!!), and I think you need someone to talk to.
Starsky
I need someone to talk to outside my marriage
Al-Anon - really, you need to go. Try a different group if you didn't like the one you went to.
Do you think this will help me cope with my marriage problems or just my wife's problems?
Your wife's problems ARE your problems and your marriage problems. When dealing with an addict, you have to address that part first - and Al Anon is all about learning to put the focus on YOURSELF, and what you can and can't do. It will give you support, and better tools for dealing with her. My friend has gone off and on for years, I see how it has helped her, and when my H left (no addictions on either side) my friend lent me her Al Anon book, The Courage to Change, which was still very helpful to me.
OK. Thank you.
Looking for local meetings right now.
I sent an email to an Al-Anon rep in my area. It looks like there's a meeting held on Monday during my lunch hour. It would be perfect. I just want to make sure it's still being held there.
Hi! I go to them regularly and it has helped me tremendously!
One thing I noticed today ... something I'm suffering and just now noticed. Usually I notice things right off the bat. I'm pretty keen on changes in my body and such.
But, I'm having heart palpitations. Which I believe are stress related. I've really been holding a lot of things in, trying to look and act calm and "with it." Inside, though, I'm a mess.
I need to relax and deal with this a bit more productively. There are times when I look at my situation and shrug it off. The day goes by and I'm just fine. Other times, like now, I live with the fear up front and in my face. I don't show it, but it's there. For some time now it's been heavy.
I need the "screw it" attitude back. I want to shrug it all off and go on with my life as if none of this is going on. This past week has been difficult.
I did receive an email from a local Al-Anon rep telling me that the meetings here are still on, once a week at 12pm. If I get the nerve I'm going to go next week.
Why has it been so tough the past several weeks? Why do I feel so insecure? Why do I think she's lying about her drinking, or drug use, or talking to someone?
Why can't I see her for what she is and what she's done? Why can't I just walk out and be happy by myself?
I'm hurting pretty bad tonight. Cried a couple of times even. I'm alone tonight. They all went to visit family down in Florida.
After work, I ate then went straight to the yard to cut grass, edge, and make it look nice. The rain has really helped make my grass thick and green. My push-mower is on it's highest level and sometimes I still need to go over sections twice just to mulch all the clippings.
While listening to music I got a call from my daughter. My wife lost her phone so she's been borrowing ours until we can get her one. I though maybe it was her, but it was my daughter. She's a daddy's girl, through and through. She's so much like me and wants to please me in so many ways. Sometimes it's frustrating because she never needs my approval, but she's constantly trying to get it. Ironically, I try to do the same thing to my wife sometimes.
She sounded tired on her way to Florida. My wife's father was taking them and a couple of cousins down to visit my wife's sister and her family. The Florida trips are always memorable. My wife's sister is pretty well off and she always makes the visits pretty awesome. At the time, my wife was driving so she didn't get on the phone. I chatted with my little girl for a bit and let her go as I was getting back on the yard. I cranked up the music and went at it again.
After putting all my equipment away, I went inside, straightened up a bit, and took a shower. I stood there in the shower for a while not doing much. The water was extremely hot and it felt real good. Outside the temps were dropping and the wind was picking up. I was just wearing shorts and a t-shirt so I was actually getting cold. The heat from the water was soothing. Then I just started crying. Not long. Just a few seconds.
This heaviness has been on me for a few weeks now. It just seems my wife has given up on so much with her life. Since she was denied her nursing license for another 6 months she really has no reason to continue to try. And because of that she may spin into a cycle of "not giving a sh**" about trying to maintain anything; her NA meetings, her NA steps, her Aftercare meetings, her calls to get tested, her drinking, her drug use, her marriage.
Through all her giving up, if that's what will happen, I feel I'll be given up on too. As much as I've tried and changed and worked on me and us, I feel like I've failed.
After the shower, I stopped in the bathroom and cried a little bit more. I need a good, deep cry. I don't cry much - if any - and I'm due a good one. Being home alone I should just belt one out, but I can't. It's not in me to really cry. After a bit I settled down on the couch with my good bud (my dog) and watched some food shows. When I'm maintaining a race weight this is usually what I'll watch since I can't eat much fattening stuff.
My weight is the lowest it's been in decades. Veins are popping out all over my mid-section and on my legs. This is when I know I'm real thin. Skinny, I should say. It's motivating to keep at it. Through the week it's small meals and a gallon of water. On the weekends I'm a little more open to eat anything since it's when I race or train longer and can burn up the calories pretty easily.
After settling in my wife called and seemed distant. Damn it, this is not what I needed right now. I need a little something to pick me up. I could tell the conversation was going no where so I told her to call me around 9pm to let me know how they were doing. It's usually the time I start fading since I'm up at 3:30am to eat, train, then go to work. She told me to call her if I hadn't heard from her because she may forget. "Yeah, right." I ain't calling her. I don't want to come off desperate or needy. So we said goodbye and hung up. I took a half of a sleeping pill, watched people eating awesome food and faded out on the couch.
About 12am I got a text that they arrived. I looked at it and went back to sleep.
This morning I feel different.
tpc,
I know you are a man of faith. After a friend sent this to me (last nite), and after reading your post here this morning, I felt led that I was supposed to share this song with you:
"Lead Me" It's powerful.
You are not alone in this,Starsky
I guess you're wanting me to make a fool of myself at work, right?
;-)
My eyes started welling up immediately because I know the song and I know what it stands for. Sheesh ... I'm sniffling right now.
Thank you for thinking of me. No, I'm not alone.
Sowwy.
I'm trying to play it cool today. While she's off on her vacation with her family I'm not calling or texting. When she did call I acted real cool and happy. I tried to keep it short and sweet.
Even though I want to talk to her bad right now. I'll just let her make the move.
Tonight I'm going home to start laying down more tile in my daughter's room. I hope to have more than half done before they get back. But my weekend will be real busy. I be doing 2 or 3 races, plus going to a big one downtown with my teammates (maybe).
Still a little panicky this morning.
Last night she called, we talked briefly. I stayed focused, trying to keep an upbeat and confident voice. When the conversation seemed to start dying out I ended it.
I guess if I really knew what she was thinking about our marriage, about me, about her, about our future, I'd feel better. She says a lot of things to keep me at peace. It really doesn't work. She lies a lot. It's easier that way, you know. Instead of feeling the guilt associated with the truth.
I need to just find peace within myself. I need to relax and take it in strides. But I'm a fixer. When something's broken I'm on it to make it work again.
Also, I hate being led on. If she's leading me on until a better time then I would love to know now and leave.
tpc,
You are waaaaayyyyyy too focused on yoru wife.
You're a fixer? GOOD. (so am I). Work on yourself for the forseeable future, without looking over your shoulder to see if she's following you. If she DOES follow you, you win. If she DOESN'T, you still win, because you'll be a much better/stronger/happier tpc.
Starsky
Something I don't understand though...
One of the reasons my wife checked out was because I didn't focus enough on her. Especially when she was going through such a rough time. Now I'm too focused.
I love her dearly. I could lose her very soon. That's my fear and fear of failing her again.
Love that movie! and why is that? They come back when they know you forgot about them (GAL??)
Push/pull dynamics. Basic human instinct.
Starsky
tpc,
I know you are a man of faith. After a friend sent this to me (last nite), and after reading your post here this morning, I felt led that I was supposed to share this song with you:
"Lead Me" It's powerful.
You are not alone in this,Starsky
Sorry to intrude here but I had never heard this song before. Thanks for posting. This is my failing in a nutshell.
Well, I raced twice yesterday. First race I placed in the cash payout. Second race, the Pro-Am, I held on for dear life. All that, plus setting up and breaking down the event since it was our team's hosted race.
I was up at 4:30am. Got home at 6pm. I tried to get back on the floor tiling but kept screwing up because my brain was mush. I wanted to get up and race again on Sunday but I opted out for a long, fun ride. Long was spot on, 105 miles. But I was hurting from racing the day before so it wasn't fun.
My wife and her dad were suppose to leave Florida around 5am this morning. Her father had a bad nights rest so they didn't get up until later. I think they left at 8. I've spoken to her several times and she told me that she's been missing me. Ok. I've been really trying to be scarce the past few days. I want her to need me. Being too available hasn't been good.
Can I be honest and up front about something? Good.
There is a younger lady that is showing a lot of interest in me. It's flattering and it's a confidence booster. She too is an athlete on my team and we were paired together yesterday during the race. We were handling the timing chips and payouts for all the cyclists. So when I wasn't racing I had to be at the tent with her. I was sort of uncomfortable because I can tell and I'm trying to keep it at bay.
Feeling a little better today. My stepping back helped a little. Yesterday we both stayed home and I worked on the floor a little more and it seemed like she really wanted to be close.
One thing I forgot to mention. When her father came to drop her and my daughter off, he told me that my wife was telling him a lot of good things about me.
Do what? Ok.
We got our other car back but it cost us all we had left at the time. With her working part-time right now we're in a pretty bad pinch. We're making it through and I tell her that over and over. But it really depresses her.
The problem is, she knows what it will take to get her back into nursing and making good money but she won't do it. She rocks back and forth between being motivated to do everything and to not do anything at all. This in turn has kept the nursing board from giving her the go ahead. She mentioned taking a second job at nights. I was pretty steamed (but didn't show it at all). I just listened and told her that if she wants more money why doesn't she find a full time job during the day? It's like she wants to step backwards anytime she really needs to step forward.
Here's a related issue. Our youngest little girl didn't make the cut for cheer leading. She's been cheering since she was 4. Now she's 12. It devastated her. In all honesty, she's good, but she isn't top notch. And when you're going against 75 other girls to fill a 12 position slot you have to be top notch. Her older sister is top notch and she wants to be just like her. Unfortunately she won't put in the hours of stretching and practice she needs. So when it came time to compete, she was off a little.
We all took the news pretty badly. Our little girl was beside herself and couldn't understand why they picked girls they passed on last year when she made the cut. She was also crushed that all her close friends made it and she was the only one who didn't. We encouraged her to move on and try something new ...
Now she's in track and here's the big dilemma; She scared to tears every day knowing she has to compete at two events she's not good at. She runs the 1600 and 800. The two longest runs for track. She absolutely hates it. She tells us that she feels like throwing up when she gets to the line. She wants to quit and tells us that other friends of hers are going to.
Nope.
I'm doing everything in my power as a dad to motivate her. She's going to stick this out and do it. At first, I could tell she was really upset about it but the longer I talked to her the more I could tell she was forcing out the tears. I told her that as many times as I've gotten to the starting line I still feel nervous, it's natural. Everyone feels nervous. But the more you do it the less nervous you get.
The biggest thing is your character, I tell her. See her biggest fear is what her friends think about her since she isn't at all fast. Most of the time she's last. I'm trying to work on her understanding that not giving up is the biggest win she could ever get. Since I started racing the Pro-Am category I've been almost last a lot. But I don't quit. Guys pull out of the race all the time because they can't keep up. Even when I fall off the pace I continue. It'll help me to improve because I treat it like training. Go hard and stick with it.
And there are tons of people watching. I have teammates watching me get last. Oh well, I said. They may watch me get last, but they will hardly ever see me give up. Not saying it will never happen. It will. There are tons of reason why I could pull out of a race but not because I lake the will. I've even puked during a race in order to continue. Hell, I eventually got 5th place and lapped the field with 4 other guys during that race.
The thing is, my wife feels the same way about our daughter not giving up. But she's tormented by the fact that she's given up on several things after she lost her job. She's bounced around for trying this to trying that and never stuck it out when things got tough. She has lost so much motivation over the years. Even now she's giving up on NA, her nursing license, and sometimes I think me and her.
She absolutely hates it. She tells us that she feels like throwing up when she gets to the line. She wants to quit and tells us that other friends of hers are going to.
Nope.
Wow. TPC ... reread that.
... and your reaction ... "suck it up sister. it builds character. do it my way, (cause your way is working out so well)" It may build character ... or it may break her spirit ... brainwash her enough that if she just pushes through the bile and deep dislike - she'll be a champ???? And that will make her life better, how?
Do you love your daughter? or do you love what you think she should achieve? Do you love your wife? or the paycheck she could bring in if she'd just get with your thinking?
TPC, do you have an IC? You need to do some work on control and expectations. It is a fine line between teaching our children values and commitment - but when a child is telling you she is feeling physically ill and "hates" something, and you don't take some time to find out what's going on with her before launching into the Coach-Dad routine .... in child protection, they have a name for that.
DB her TPC. The prinicples can be applied to every relationship in your life - and they will rock your world.
V
Here's the thing; I know my daughter. I know exactly what she's capable of and what she's not. My daughter ran a 5K (3.2mile) race once in under 36 minutes. She's run three of them actually. One by herself and 2 with me.
I also know that since my daughter was an infant that she has the idea in her head that if she really cries hard enough she can MAKE herself throw up. We'd go to restaurants and if she didn't want to get in a highchair she'd cry until she threw up in front of everyone. Even at the age of 12 she thinks this is a way of getting her way. She is really really stubborn It's been an issue for as long as I can remember. I know it. Her mother knows it. Her sister knows it. Everyone does. It's also caused a lot of problems at home because when we tell the oldest daughter to do something she does it - though with a little agitation. When we tell this little girl to do something ... excuse, complain, cty, kick, beg, cry, throw up ... get out of it. Because of this the oldest girl has built a lot of resentment over the years saying that her younger sister gets out of everything she doesn't want to do.
Now I'm in the middle of it trying to get my youngest to understand that she will eventually have to face reality. No longer are there going to be tears and gagging to get out of things she doesn't want to do.
How does this make me feel? Horrible sometimes. Mainly, because she can really whip one up and make it seem like your hacking off an appendage.
For two days now I have talked to her about facing her fears - no matter what they are. Her fear this time is what people think of her because she usually gets last. I told her that I do too now that I've moved up in Category. It's not what others think, it's what you think of yourself and how hard you're working on making yourself better at what you do.
Last night I came home with hand-written quotes on perseverance, giving it your all, fear, and character. I told her to pick two quotes, cut them out, and when it's time to get ready to race, stick one in each shoe. Then when you're done with your events we'll pull them out and look at how you crushed them under your feet. She liked the idea. Also, I gave her one of my Team's water bottles, two gel packs, and a protein bar. I told her to slam a gel pack before her first race, then immediately after drink and take another to prepare for the next one. Once that one was over drink again and eat the recovery bar. I get a ton of stuff from our sponsors so I'm going to give her a little gift pack each day she has an event. I'm also going to give her some of my DeFeet socks. They may do nothing for her but I want her to wear them and know that I'll always be with her - even when she feels like she's out there running all by herself.
When it was time to go to bed last night she asked me to pep talk her again. So I did. She fell asleep peacefully and happy.
So ... "suck it up, sister." Yeah. She's going to suck it up and face her fears. She's going to learn to cope and adapt. She's not going to get out of things the way she used to anymore.
Parents are a bunch of weaklings now. We don't want to ruffle our little kid's egos or make them feel distress in any way. So when they grow up and stub their little toe in the real world they don't know how to cope. We cover their ears, cover their eyes, but never teach them to cover their mouths. So when they complain the least little bit we try to protect them - from what I don't know.
I've taught both my girls that once you're in something - especially if YOU decided to get into it - there's not giving up. I don't want them bouncing around from this and that until their comfortable. Comfort is this world's God now. You don't want it? Screw it, move on. You don't like it? Find something else? It doesn't taste good? Throw it away and get what you want. Oh, it's a little tough? Stop and we'll find something easier. I'm sorry you feel discomfort let me do it for you. And here's a piece of cake,go sit down in front of the TV and turn on your favorite show. No. It's ok that I was watching something. You go ahead and run things the way you want. I'll cower down and make sure everything is comfortable for you. Sheesh.
Oh and the wife and paycheck thing.
My wife and her paychecks is my wife's problem. Not mine. Yeah, we're in a pinch but I've told her countless times that if the current job she has is nice and she loves it, stick to it and show everyone how awesome you are. She loves her current job. It doesn't pay much but she grabs every opportunity to do more when called on. She's also been told that she's one of their best recent hires.
The nursing thing was her giving up - again. She's given up on several high prospects because it was too difficult to maintain. Too many phone calls, too many meetings, too many situations where she could possibly be rejected.
And to be honest, it's killed her. She knows exactly what she should have done. And no, I'm not hammering her with it at all. She's hammering herself about it. That's enough. I'm on the sideline watching her beat herself up about it and I'm trying to clear her head.
She's a scatter-brain and can't stay on course with things. So what do I do? I help lay out plans - on paper. I make them simle and straight forward. She gets motivated and starts. Then ... eventually gives up. We laid out plans for NA and the nursing. They were very simple and I told her that I would be right by her side helping her. Then when the day came to start, she didn't want to. Why? Because it felt like I was forcing her.
So I wonder where my youngest gets her stuff from?
I keep falling prey to my weaknesses. I'm simply not strong enough yet to not be suspicious. And because of it, there is a constant divide in our marriage. I need to let go of this whether or not she's talking to someone else because it is doing more harm than anything.
When I ask for reassurance the road for us gets rough and she actually tells me that she doesn't know if we can continue. It happened last night. And I'm ashamed of myself.
There are so many areas in my life that I've strengthened. So many areas that I've become confident and strong, but some of the most important areas I've yet to tackle.
It's been a while. Here's where I am right now.
I made it a goal not to speak of anything concerning her infidelity for a month. So far I've marked 27 calendar days with acting cool about it.
My next goal is to fight all doubt, insecurity, etc that is associated with what happened. There are days (like this morning on the way to work) where I expect to find her still fooling around and I need to walk out. I get real anxious and angry sometimes. I start working things out in my head with how it will end and what I will do - when, not if, it happens.
I also need to work on my suspicion. This is also a tough one because I easily read into a lot of things that are somewhat out of character for her. If she texts instead of calls, I assume it's because she's not where she should be. If she says she going someplace or to meet someone out of the norm I assume she's seeing her old flame. Paranoia. It [censored]. And it [censored] a big part of my energy.
But! I try to show only positive attitudes towards everything she does. I'm trying to show that I want her to have her space and be a person outside of our marriage. Today she is going to visit family. Did I wonder? Hell yeah. This isn't a person she usually visits. This is the second time going there. But I will let her and not question. She can do what she wants and I will not put a leash on her at all. I will be upbeat and tell her she needs to get out more.
The problem is though I start feeling extremely anxious. Trying to control these doubts and fears should be my next priority. I need to force them out and be happy for what's going on between us. We are together. We have some really good days together. We still kiss and cuddle and make love. We still hold hands and slow dance on occasion in our living room. We still take walks together and talk about our weekend plans. Sometimes she's genuinely passionate to me. When we fight about something we make up.
One day when the girls were gone I made the suggestion to go out and walk on the railroad tracks up to the store. It was a couple of miles away and the tracks snaked through the woods. We didn't have a clue if they were the same tracks that go to where we wanted but we did it anyway. We were wrong. The tracks took us out of the way and we had to backtrack and find where the branched off. We found the right ones and heading in the right direction. By the time we got to where we wanted to go it was getting dark. So we walked back on the roads. It was an adventure. It was fun. But the whole time I felt like my wife was out of it. She had been this way for days now and my heart was aching for a closeness I wasn't getting. She wasn't as approachable as she can be so I had to keep my distance and give her the space she needed.
That night we made a decision to create a family bucket list. We wanted everyone to write down things to do together that are close by and didn't cost much - if anything. Two of my suggestions were camping out, even if it's in the back yard first. And to walk this local trail that's about 8 miles long.
If you've read all this and can help me, I do have something on my mind about this current situation.
If she is seeing someone else, or at least talking to someone else, would she still want to be close to me and as affectionate as she is sometimes? I mean, sometimes she wants me real close and touching and kissing. Sometimes she asks me to lay my head on her lap while we watch TV. Sometimes she wants me to just hang out with her while she's working on one of her projects. I always comply and never make it negative in anyway. But I wonder if it's because she's really needing me because of love or because of guilt.
If you've read all this and can help me, I do have something on my mind about this current situation.
If she is seeing someone else, or at least talking to someone else, would she still want to be close to me and as affectionate as she is sometimes? I mean, sometimes she wants me real close and touching and kissing. Sometimes she asks me to lay my head on her lap while we watch TV. Sometimes she wants me to just hang out with her while she's working on one of her projects. I always comply and never make it negative in anyway. But I wonder if it's because she's really needing me because of love or because of guilt.
Could be guilt. Could be she's conflicted, and still trying to keep both "plates" spinning on both sticks, unsure as to which of you she wants. Could be she's cake-eating. Could be she broke up with OM, and is slowly warming to you. Could be she's playing you. Could be a LOT of things, which is why I'm so pro-intel, as I'd much rather fly on good instruments than thru the fog, blindly.
As you can tell, I'm not big on the whole "ostrich" approach. Sure, it reduces conflict, but at what cost if your gut is still churning all the time, because you're assuming the worst anyway?
Starsky
That's why I need to either find out the total truth or keep it as it is and stop the internal noises.
She seems genuine with me though. That's the problem. With how I read into things it doesn't seem that I would think her affection was genuine. But then again, I could totally be blinded by it because it's what I want.
I'll give it some time and see if I can shut down the voices of doubt. In the meantime I'm working on bettering me.
I'm confused, tpc. How does this:
But! I try to show only positive attitudes towards everything she does. I'm trying to show that I want her to have her space and be a person outside of our marriage. Today she is going to visit family. Did I wonder? Hell yeah. This isn't a person she usually visits. This is the second time going there. But I will let her and not question. She can do what she wants and I will not put a leash on her at all. I will be upbeat and tell her she needs to get out more.
jibe with this:
That's why I need to either find out the total truth or keep it as it is and stop the internal noises.
Those seem to contradict each other. Either you need to find out one way or another (because continued infidelity is a dealbreaker for you, and/or because the suspicion is making you crazy), or you don't. I don't get it?
Reasonable people around here disagree on strategy and tactics, but I'm just trying to understand YOURS.
Starsky
If I start snooping it will mess up what I've built. Either I'm going to do that or stay on the course I've taken.
I'm not advocating "snooping" (it's anti-DB). I'm just trying to understand your goals. Hypothetically, if what you call "snooping" turned up that your wife was NOT in contact with OM, and WAS being genuine with you . . . how would that make you feel?
Starsky
It would make me feel pretty good. Maybe it's not my style. I dunno.
It's been almost a year and a half. Still being in "a state of confusion," or a stance of "I dunno" seems kinda "just-newly-bombed" to me, tpc. WHATEVER strategy you want to use, all I'm saying is, HAVE THE COURAGE OF YOUR CONVICTIONS, and JUST DO IT. You should be feeling much more certain of your APPROACH after this length of time, even if the RESULTS aren't always there (and of course, we never have any guarantee that they WILL be).
Just something to think about. Not a criticism, but an observation.
Starsky