Here's my story from the Newcomers forum.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1846787#Post1846787 To sum up, bomb was dropped on me Labor Day weekend. 2 weeks later I discovered emails that point to an EA (at least). W denied, denied, denied. During our 1st MC session 2 weeks ago, W denied again & claimed to have sent a "no contact" email to OM so we can work on our M.
W giving no effort in MC & during our 3rd MC session yesterday, said she wants to move out. This morning, I find out W never stopped contacting OM...sent him at least 3 emails this past Monday.
My question is...based on your experiences, what are the pros/cons of contacting OM's W?
The con's are:
1. Your wife will be FURIOUS, and will spew all kinds of things at you like "Now you've just blown ANY chance of working this out with us!" This is typical script; they all say it. It soon blows over, but there WILL be blowback.
2. I can't think of any more "con's."
Pro's:
1. It will hasten the demise of the affair. Affairs thrive in secrecy, and in the romantic, taboo "mystique" of it all. Shining the light of day on them shows their warts more quickly, and usually (not always) kills them much quicker.
2. It shows your wife you're willing to fight for her. Women tie their feelings of "respect" very closely to their feelings of "love," and when a man sits by passively and doesn't fight for them, they often lose respect for them and -- therefore -- love starts to slip as well.
3. The OM's wife has a right to know, and to make her own family decisions accordingly. How fair is it that she be the ONLY one of the four affected -- seriously, life-alteringly affected -- that DOESN'T know the truth?
There are other valid pro's and con's, but I think those are the most important ones. There are those who will say "it will only drive them together," but I think that's a bunch of hooey, since -- guess what?? -- they're ALREADY together, and cheating on their spouses!
One important cautionary note, however: you should ONLY use exposure as a tactic, and part of an overall strategy to SAVE your marriage. If you're "done", and only doing it out of SPITE, then you shouldn't do it.
Puppy
I say expose to the OM's wife.
Absolutely.
I confronted the OM during my W's affair on two occasions. When he dumped my W, changed all of his numbers and got a new GF, my W flew to see him. I rang OM's GF to warn her and OM himself.
No regrets. My W was furious but then, if she were proud of what she did she would have shouted it from the rooftops.
Expose.
You will not make the situation any worse by doing this.
Do not fear your wife's anger!
I too think it is the fair thing to do for the other betrayed spouse.
I remember a female friend who notified the H of the OW her H was having a PA with. He refused to believe her so she took him for a ride to follow the 2 cheaters during lunch. The poor guy broke down in tears when he saw the truth.
Telling the OM's W will be extremely difficult for you. Be prepared for various reactions from her and approach it with compassion. Tell her your reasoning for getting the A out in the open is to help with its demise.
After finding condoms in my W's glove compartment this morning, I'm really considering contacting OM and OM's W.
I agree completely with exposing to OMW. But I wouldn't contact OM. First, he's scr*wing your wife, do you think he's going to care what you say to him? Second, if he gets word of your plan to contact his W, he's going spin some b.s. story to her before you do and then you've lost that ally.
And if you're going to expose to OMW, do not, DO NOT, tell your W you're going to do it ahead of time.
And like Puppy said, SHE WILL BE LIVID. You need to remain calm. Just remember this line as she spews things like you'd never believe at you....."She deserved to know what was going on in her life". And when she bit*hes some more, say "She deserved to know what was going on in her life". And then walk away.
It's one of the hardest things I ever did, but it was the beginning of the end of the A. I had to finally expose to my grown children which was the final nail in the A coffin. And yes, it took her a long time to get over what she considered my betrayal of her by telling OMW and the kids, but oh well, we're recovering nicely now and our marriage never would have made it without exposing, IMHO.
Good luck.
E,
"Ditto" what H4U said about NOT forewarning, and NOT talking directly to OM!
YES -- expose to his wife; she deserves to know. But if you talk directly to him, it:
- will elevate his status. Think "the President of the US negotiating directly with some rag-tag terrorist." He's not worth it.
- will make you look WEAK in your wife's and OM's eyes, believe it or not. In fact, they will probably have a good LAUGH at your conversation with him, as he'll try to puff himself up to your wife;
- will yield NO useful information.
On that last point, think of it this way: this man, by definition, is a PREDATOR. And ALL CHEATERS LIE -- period. So what information could he possibly give you that would be useful? At best, he's going to lie to you, and at worst, he's going to tell you something that you're going to TRY to believe, and it will be nothing but smoke and obfuscation.
And I haven't even touched upon the whole subject of "do you think you could remain calm and control yourself in such a confrontation?" Even if you DO, I have heard of OM/OW calling the police and trying to make it look like you're harrassing them, and turning everything against YOU.
Nope -- nothing good from contacting OM. If you want to confront someone, confront your WIFE, and expose to the other man's wife.
Puppy
etrain. were there condoms missing? like, they usually come in a 3 pack or a dozen. was it an incorrect number that you found?
Found 3 loose condoms hidden away in the difribillator kit in her glove compartment. No box or anything.
After finding condoms in my W's glove compartment this morning, I'm really considering contacting OM and OM's W.
Etrain, my heart goes out to you. It really does - so sorry that you have to be here but you're in the right place.
Expose.
Tell OMW what you found. Do so calmly, factually and without expressing too much emotion.
She will be in a state of numb shock and disbelief. You need to do it. If I were you I would email or mail any correspondence between your W and OM to her so that she is left in no doubt.
Remember Rule #1 -
ALL CHEATERS LIE and it comes as natural to them as breathing an going to the toilet. You will harldy ever get them to admit an affair unless they're confronted with incontrovertible evidence that it's ongoing. Condoms in a glove compartment would not qualify. Intercepting correspondence referring to sexual acts is.
This is what you ideally need to send to OMW if at all possible.
Don't warn your W or OM about it.
Just do it. The affair will begin a natural demise from when you expose
and OMW has the right to know the truth, even if, and especially if it's an unpleasant truth.
Please stay in touch and let us know how you're doing.
Just sent an IM to OM's W through Facebook. It's the only way I know to contact her, short of calling their home phone.
It was a very difficult thing to do but, after discovering that my W and OM went on a "date" 2 nights ago, I had to do it.
I'll let you guys know when/if I get a response from his W.
OK. Just be sure to tell her "I'm sorry to have to tell you this" and STICK TO THE FACTS. Don't embellish. Don't come across like you're doing this out of spite, or trying to grill her or blame her and her husband for this. Stick to "I thought you should know, so that you can plan accordingly" and "I'm really sorry to have to tell you this, but if the situation were reversed, I would certainly want to know."
Also, respect her privacy and tell her something like "If you don't want to discuss this with me any further, I will respect that; just let me know."
Prepare for your wife's wrath; steel yourself. As Coach would say:
"You can handle it."
Puppy
P.S. You may find that she already knows -- or at least suspected -- and you may also find out that this isn't his first time.
OK. Just be sure to tell her "I'm sorry to have to tell you this" and STICK TO THE FACTS. Don't embellish. Don't come across like you're doing this out of spite, or trying to grill her or blame her and her husband for this. Stick to "I thought you should know, so that you can plan accordingly" and "I'm really sorry to have to tell you this, but if the situation were reversed, I would certainly want to know."
Also, respect her privacy and tell her something like "If you don't want to discuss this with me any further, I will respect that; just let me know."
Prepare for your wife's wrath; steel yourself. As Coach would say:
"You can handle it."
Puppy
Did you read my email to her?
That's almost word for word what I typed.
Just sent an IM to OM's W through Facebook. It's the only way I know to contact her, short of calling their home phone.
It was a very difficult thing to do but, after discovering that my W and OM went on a "date" 2 nights ago, I had to do it.
I'll let you guys know when/if I get a response from his W.
No response from OM W yet. She either doesn't check her Facebook regularly or didn't feel comfortable sending me a reply.
Still waiting for my W to flip out when word of this gets back to her.
Oh, you'll know when she's gotten it. Just look to the east (or whichever direction) for the mushroom cloud.
Oh, you'll know when she's gotten it. Just look to the east (or whichever direction) for the mushroom cloud.
Listen to Puppy, E.T. (ha, that sounds better than etrain), he's exactly correct.
When I exposed to OMW, my W came in, sat down on the couch and you could almost see the blood boiling up in her eyes. I let her go for about 15 minutes and then said "I figured you'd have something to say" and man, oh man, that opened the tsunami....
When it happens, and it will, just remember your line. "She deserved to know what was going on in her life". You'll get the chit storm of the century. Let it slide off your back. You just wrecked the little fantasy and she will be LIVID with a capital L. My W actually said "don't you think it was up to OM to tell his W?" I cooly responded "it's been going on for 9 months, when was he planning on telling her?" And then I got the "I was going to give you a chance, but boy oh boy, not now. You just wrecked any chance we had".
Pay it no attention. It's all gaslighting. Trying to get a response from you. I read on another site that when this one guys wayward wife was spewing at him for exposing, he said "she deserved to know the truth, would you like some chips?" And then he walked to the kitchen, got the chips and sat down to eat some. That will make her even more furious.
But it's ok. Your marriage can survive her anger, it can't survive a third person in it.
Keep your chin up.
Bring on the mushroom cloud. I don't really care. My W has been a liar & a cheater and I don't owe her any type of explanation.
The crap must've already hit the fan at OM's house because he's no longer on my W's Facebook friends list. His W must be laying down the law.
And then I got the "I was going to give you a chance, but boy oh boy, not now. You just wrecked any chance we had".
I never had an OM W to inform, but I had stupidly communicated with W's brother (who told her mom). I heard the "We are Done" spew from W the next day. And she also said that she had planned to do things as a family just that very day, but now I had "destroyed her life and she was going out clubbing to F herself up and then live out on the street. Strangely, I had no pity for her at the time and thought it a bit humorous on how she could get so darn angry.
Dont believe anything your W says when she is in a rage. Just make sure there are no guns, knives or baseball bats nearby.
The crap must've already hit the fan at OM's house because he's no longer on my W's Facebook friends list. His W must be laying down the law.
Perfect, Etrain ... perfect.
I'm proud of you.
I have to agree with the above. Her angry script is coming, hang tough as you have no chance while OM is around.
The removal of a 'friend' from facebook could be damage control with OMW, so a good sign. She may have been sold a version and she might not know what to believe. I have a hunch you will be hearing from her when you least expect it.
Today would most likely be the day my W finds out since she & OM are back at work so it would give OM opportunity to contact her via work IM or email.
I'm torn on whether I should contact OMW again...just to confirm that she got my first message. But I don't want to come across as too pushy.
I would send her one more, reminding her that you will respect her privacy if she doesn't want to talk about it, but to just please let you know that she got it "so that I can handle things accordingly on my end."
Do you even know if she is on FB regularly? Maybe a phone call?
Puppy
Really weird. Neither OM or OMW come up on Facebook when I'm logged in & search their names. But they're both still on Facebook if I log in under a different account.
I wonder if OM somehow intercepted my message & blocked me from both of their Facebook accounts?
I'm not aware of FB having that capability, although I guess if they both delete you as a "Friend" that would be the net effect?
I hadn't thought of it, but your explanation is very reasonable. Cheating spouses tend to be very paranoid, and the guy might have been monitoring his wife's account to see if she was e-mailing anyone about being suspicious of her H.
I'd suggest contacting her either in person or by phone right away. She very well have never gotten the note, and now your W and OM are just doing the "Saint" routine, and driving things underground, thinking they have averted the incoming missile.
Puppy
I set up a new Facebook account & sent OMW a follow-up. I just received a reply.
I received your note - thank you for letting me know. We had a long discussion this past weekend about it and "OM" said the email and dinner were inappropriate and that he would cut contact with her immediately. He assured me that this would go no farther. He and I have a lot of things to talk through now.
"OMW"
Maybe some good will come of this...unless this is actually OM replying under his W's account (okay, now I'm getting paranoid).
It very well could be. I'd suggest contacting her ONCE in person, and confirming that she got the e-mail, and letting her know that is the only reason for your second contact. Remind her that you will respect their privacy if she wishes and all she needs to do is say so, and you'll never contact her again. However, if she WANTS to stay in touch, that you may "each be able to help each other with transparency."
My gut tells me your note was from her husband.
Puppy
This is so tough. Really, the only other way I have to contact her is to call their home phone number. With everyone having Caller ID & not knowing what time of day she's home, it would be hit or miss.
I really don't know what to do now. Maybe I'll give it a day to see if my W mentions anything.
Do you know when her husband is likely to be at work? I know what you're saying, but I would call their home phone, but not leave a message. Or you could send her a letter, certified return receipt.
I would expect him to be at work right now. My W has work. Only catch could be that it's Columbus Day so maybe his office has the day off.
Maybe I'll send her another IM expressing my concern & ask her to call my cell. Either that or the letter.
I just don't feel comfortable calling her home phone.
The problem with sending her a message to call your cell is if you get a WRITTEN response, then what? You still won't know it's really from her.
Do you have a mutual friend who could be trusted to pass along a sealed message from you?
They live in another state so I don't have any mutual friends or any way to contact in person.
I sent the "please call my cell" message a couple hours ago...No call yet.
I'm still considering calling their home phone this evening.
Oh, and it is possible to block someone from finding you on Facebook. That leads me to believe my theory is correct...that OM intercepted my IM & blocked me from finding him or his W on Facebook again. Makes it more likely he responded under his W's acct. He's an IT guy. I'm sure he know how to get her acct info.
Sounds fishy to me also.
Send her a certified letter that only she can sign for and you get a receipt that says she picked it up (the P.O will know which one you mean when you describe it).
In that letter, say "Please let me confirm, you are Mrs. xxx, wife of Mr. xxx. I sent you a note via FB. If you received my note via FB and it was truly you that replied to me, accept my apologies for bothering you, but I am suspicious it was intercepted by your H. If you did not receive my note on FB, there is some information I feel I need to share with you".
And go on from there.
That's what I had to do with OMW in my sitch. I couldn't find a phone number for her (she lives 1000 miles away) and I had to hire a PI to get her address. Sent a note certified and was able to go to the P.O. where they confirmed she'd picked it up even before I got the receipt back. She called me that night.
H4U.
OM's W just called me. Said how difficult it was to call me, verified that she got my messages & asked if we could "just drop it". I said sure & apologized for bothering her. I feel bad now. But at least I know.
You did the right thing by letting her know.
She may want to put her head in the sand for now or she does not want to deal with her marriage problems with another party or she has castrated her husband.
Dont feel bad about it.
And if the EA continues, you may not hear the last from her.
I feel bad now. But at least I know.
KerryK is right.
Feeling bad is OK. Avoiding doing the right thing is not OK.
You absolutely did the right thing by letting her know - I know it took some courage. The first time I confronted my wife's OM it took some courage but I was glad I did.
In time she will be grateful that you let her know. She is able to proceed forward based on reality and not an illusion ... and so are you.
Things in your situation will assume a different dynamic from here on.
Thanks Kerry & GH. It was a difficult decision & one I wish I never had to make. I don't know if this will squash the A, but at least I can say I did all I could.
E,
Well done. I know it's just about the toughest thing you've ever done.
Just be prepared for it to NOT end the A right away. Very rarely does exposure like that cause some miracle turn-around. What it does do is put pressure on the A.
You think your W and OM are having lovey dovey conversations right now? Nope. They're probably cussing your name and trying to figure out just what they're going to do now. And I would bet my next paycheck that your W is going to be putting a whole lot of pressure on OM. Kind of a sick, see what I've done for you kind of thing and if he's like a lot of OM, he's going to drop your W like a hot potato.
The key for you now is to DB your butt off. No angry outbursts. When she starts in on you for telling OMW, remember your line, "she deserved to know". And give her SPACE. Let her process what's going on. It may take a while, but your exposure to OMW will knock the fantasy of the A completely out of the ball park.
Then once the reality of it hits her, she'll come to see it for what it is/was and that's when your M has a chance. But again, it could take a while.
Patience, Patience.
What does she mean by 'drop it'? Not contact her anymore? Either this guy is a serial cheater or she is in shock. What's the over/under when she calls you back.
You don't need to contact her. But I will tell you me and OMW still occaisionally talk to give each other support and to help make it difficult on them.
My bet is she's a doormat, and this isn't her first time.
Puppy
She doesnt want to get involved with you. Probably figures you will want to meet for coffee and talk. YUCK!
Like puppy said. This isnt the first time. If it was, she'd be in complete shock then be more interested in details on what you know.
When OMW said "let's just drop it", I took it as her not wanting me to contact her about it anymore...which is fine. She sounded very upset (naturally)..maybe a little shocked...& I got the impression she didn't want to discuss her M with a complete stranger (me).
I have no idea what's going on w/ W & OM right now. I'm sure OM must have let my W know what I did. W is hiding it well because she hasn't reacted or said anything to me about it.
Still no reaction from my W. But she did attempt to contact OM last night while I was out...sent him an IM through her work account.
Nothing else new to report. My W is a brilliant actress.
How do you know all this? What intel do you have in place?
Puppy
How do you know all this? What intel do you have in place?
Puppy
keylogger.
she accessed her work account through our home PC.
Very good. Make sure to save/get screenshots, where appropriate.
You sound like you're doing much better.
Still no reaction from my W. But she did attempt to contact OM last night while I was out...sent him an IM through her work account.
Nothing else new to report. My W is a brilliant actress.
Perhaps she has not yet confronted him with what she knows as she has to make the same decisions we have all had to with respect to how SHE wants to handle it in her own M... Not clear to me that your W is hiding anything (unless you have recon that tells you that OMW has confronted OM)... FWIW...
OMW contacted me & said she has discussed the A with her H.
OMW contacted me & said she has discussed the A with her H.
An den?
OMW contacted me & said she has discussed the A with her H.
My bad... I missed that...
OMW contacted me & said she has discussed the A with her H.
My bad... I missed that...
No problem. These threads are sometimes hard to follow.
Follow-up: W has still never mentioned me contacting OMW.
Maybe it's over. Maybe they're keeping it "underground" until my W moves out. I just don't know.
Maybe she's one of those "don't want to give him (you) the satisfaction" types.
Usually, an exposed cheater is livid, and you'll feel their wrath. But about 15-20% of the time, I have seen what you're experiencing. I think it's some combination of what you said (still don't want to admit to it/drive it underground) and what I said (don't want to give their betrayed spouse the satisfaction of knowing you've upset them).
Puppy
I think that there could be another explanation. It's possible that OM has not told your W the truth about what's going on right now. His W may not have said how she knew.
When my H was in the thick of the A, he tried to play both ends against the middle. Telling me that she knew everything about the state of our R, but she knew nothing. When I finally called her, she was completely floored.
Your W may not know what's really going on. Believe me when she does you'll know. Like everyone else said, the anger is intense.
W sent OM another email last night. Thank you, keylogger.
Something innocent followed by..."I'm at home so you better not reply. Have a wonderful night!" Plus smiley faces galore.
They're obviously communicating at work only these days...but my W can't help herself & still has to send the occasional email from home.
Now, should I let OM W know about this?