That Was Then, This is Now - DivorceBusting.com

NM, all I can tell you is that if my W decides that she wants to live with me and work on our M, I'm pushing all my chips to the middle of the table. For me, the risk is worth it.

You've wanted to be in this place for a long time, and now you're talking yourself out of it.

NM, please check in if you can.

Hey all, thanks to GH, Muddle, White; Ellie; RB; NNP for all your responses. I haven't been able to get on here much, but I have read them and appreciated them and used the info - just didn't get any time to reply.

It's been a whirlwind week, that's for sure. Emotionally draining; chaotic. Don't know where to start.

Yesterday saw SO breakdown. I mean, really. Crying, to the point of shaking & hyperventilating. Kind of scary to watch, yet, somehow necessary, I think. He's always kept his emotions so far inside that to see this was crucial. For him to allow me to see him this way, is a better way of putting it, perhaps. He kept saying "don't make fun of me." His fear of looking vulnerable to people, I would guess. I think it also had to do with how he thought I'd react to some of the things he was telling me. But I didn't "react"; I listened; talked when I needed to; answered what I needed to; asked questions when I was unclear....even with him being so emotionally distraught, it was an encouraging and enlightening talk. A step - more than a baby step, not a giant step...maybe a toddler step. And when he was saying depressing things about us, I pointed out that things do change - as seen in how we were talking with each other without blame and criticism and harsh words. I think he was very surprised in his realization of that.

He states that he doesn't want to be with OW. And then at the same time, that he knows somewhere deep inside he loves me - but that he's scared it's not the right way. (my translation is he doesn't feel those in love feelings so he doesn't believe that he really loves me.) Said he knew it wouldn't work out with OW; fed her what she wanted to hear and misled her about a lot of things. Said why do I think he hid her from his family and from the kids. Why didn't he stop seeing me.

He says that he told OW (this past Monday) that he wanted to come back home. Wants to come home more than be with her. So, it's funny - he tells me he doesn't know if it's the right thing to do, but yet, that's what he wants. Or, rather - that's what he is choosing. Very confusing. Very confused person.

I know my sitch is a little weirder than some out there, lol- but yesterday I finally got it. "It" being - it doesn't really matter what he's saying right now. He's been here every day this week; asking if he could stay over Wednesday night. He's making the steps. Actions. He's put an end to OW. Action.

So what if it's not my ideal reconciliation scenario. That was MY fantasy - a romanticized, ILY and can't live without you kind of thing. But ya know what - my name isn't Cinderella. And fairytales are merely idealized stories created for little girls. And, what you guys said in your responses also echoed in my head, as well.

I was going to recount everything he said; everything that's happened, but why? {Yeah - including OW calls; along with her freaking mother calling, none of which I took, BTW } SO finding out OW lied to him - says she called here and talked to me 3 weeks ago (when I was out of the damned state!) - but I'm beginning to find it all tiresome. Or, maybe it's finally detachment at it's finest - but whatever it is - none of the crap; none of the drama; not even some of the things he disclosed - really bother me anymore.

And ow's behavior (and her mothers!) - pathetic. Makes me soooooo glad I never found a need to go that route (call OW). And if anyone out there reading is thinking about getting in touch with OP - I suggest NOT! It's kind of sad, really. Pathetic. Pointless. Only makes you look like an ass.

Anyway - I know the road is probably going to get a little rougher before it gets better. Our talk didn't "settle" anything; but, it's a start. He's going to move back in.

And I know this could still go either way. But this time - my eyes are open. I'll be OK if for some reason this doesn't work out.

And, sorry GH - somehow at the same time, I have to say no to the status quo. Things have to change instantaneously. If we fall back into that trap - that old comfortable rut - I fear it will never change and or issues won't ever get resolved.

I know he needs time. So, I'll give it. Give our new R time. Give us time to get past the awkwardness of all this. Hell, I don't even really consider us "back together" or anything. Just working on it. For now, it's a matter of getting thru the withdrawal of OW. Who knows what comes next. Time to set some goals, I guess. Figure out what needs to be worked on most. Helping get his "loving feelings" back towards me.

Where to start, where to start!

Hello all

Not sure what to say. SO moved most of his things back in on Sunday. Things have been incredibly difficult; awkward. He's been talking to me a lot more often, which I see as a good thing. Even if some of the stuff is about OW; his confusion about his life and "us".

Saturday, he told me he had to call OW and did it from here. To me, it was another one of those moments where I had to make sure I didn't mess it up. I didn't say anything other than "OK". He made his call from the bedroom, which was pretty short and I made no comment whatsoever. Later that evening before he was leaving for work, he said that he had tried to get in touch with his mother, if she had come over I could have gone with him to the bar. That shocked me. Not sure if it's true or not, but at least he made the offer. That night when he got home, he woke me, we were in the kitchen and the 1st thing he said to me was "How come you didn't freak out when I called OW".

We've had several talks at his insistence. Mostly about his general confusion. I hate to sound like I'm advising him or whatever, but he's always asking me for advice. He says I'm his only true friend. I told him I was biased (laughingly) towards my cause and I probably wasn't the best person to offer advice. I've tried to point out that no matter "Who" he was ending things with, he was going to go through withdrawal; need to change routines; have regretful feelings; all things associated with a breakup. Sympathizing with his feelings re: OW; while also trying to indicate it would probably be the same if it were me he ended it with. He says it would be worse if it were me & the kids leaving.

I've been plagued with calls from OW - I've asked him why she wants to talk to me. He said because of all the lies he's told her she believes I'm standing in their way. (No comment from me.) I told him I won't take the calls, and I won't. Not sure how much contact they are still in, I'm sure (know) they still are to certain degree, and I told him he wasn't on a time clock and I wasn't about make myself nuts worrying about what he was doing.

The only thing that has me real worried is his deep-rooted confusion. Sometimes it seems as though he wants me to make his decisions for him. Re: our R. Me moving out. He's still so unsure and negative about us. It makes me lose confidence - in myself. I know he's moved back and I didn't force him to do that. He could very have easily stayed where he was or moved in to OW's mothers house, and he chose to come back here. So that's a positive. But, sometimes, when he's so negative - I get negative and just want to throw in the towel and move out. I have to keep myself in check when he starts talking negatively.

One thing he did say, and this totally shocked me - was that he's thinking about seeing a C. I piped in, lmao, and said, make sure it's a SBT!. LOL He asked what that was, and I said it's someone that doesn't dwell too much in the past but helps you find the answers now. We talked about him seeing a C some more, and previously he's said he's prone to telling people what they want to hear - so, because the conversation was not so "deep" and we were laughing a little, I said to him, you know you can't tell a C what you think they want to hear - you're going to have to be honest about everything. He said "I know."

Oh - another thing HE said - and I'm encouraged (?) by this. That OW wasn't the problem. That we have to find out why he did what he did that led to the OW. I was glad that he was the one to recognize this. Not that it really helps when he now has feelings for OW, but, at least he recognized this. He's admitted that no one knows how "involved" we were through all this. That the one or two people he has talked to, he's led them to believe something other than the truth (let alone the lies he's told OW). And, what's worse, is I don't think he's going to admit the truth to anyone.

On top of it, he's still sick. Stomach starting to bother him real bad again, so much that he didn't work his bar remote last night. He's going to the doctor today, but I really hope he doesn't end up back in the hospital again. The doctors had pretty much said they believe it to be a disease that is aggravated by stress. So I don't know what's going to happen.

Me, well I'm trying to live my life for me. Trying to make decisions for me. Trying to keep doing what I was doing when he wasn't living here. It's important that I keep doing that. I have no intention on falling back into the same old, same old. And it's very hard. I need more confidence that I don't have. And I don't know where to find it.

NM,

Can you just treat yourself for everything you've been through and how you've held up? You totally deserve a professional massage or something -seriousely!!!

Blue ribbon to you girl. Those kids have an awesome role model!

NM, I am glad to see your update. As always you are in my prayers.

NM, honey! You are doing FANTASTICLY in the face of a lot of strange, new weird stuff. WOW, a gold star for you today. Remind yourself how far YOU have come. You validated and didn't react sarcastically/b*itchy about any of this. I am really proud of you, and make sure you are too!

\o/\o/\o/ THREE CHEERS FOR YOU!

Well, seeing these posts, I feel like such a failure. Short version - SO has asked me to move out. Insisted, quite frankly. And I've agreed. I'm too tired to fight anymore. My spirit is gone. My will is gone. I could have given a little more, if he was willing. But, he's not. So I can't give any more.

I feel worse this time around. Much worse for some reason. But, moving will be good. I can't stay here. I won't force myself where I'm not wanted. What should have been the happy place we raised our family has turned into a Fun House, complete with rooms of Illusions; tightropes; rollercoasters and the echoes of lies.

Moving will be the better choice for me & the girls. Starting over somewhere else without all the crap. We'll be close to family that can help me out (both his & mine); I've got friends there; we won't be so isolated - for a minute or two I can almost make myself look forward to it.

I thank you all for following along with me. I'm sorry I don't have a happier outcome. But everyone here are amazing people, helping others through the tough times when they themselves are going through similar things. I'm so glad I found this site...it's helped me learn so much.

I'll update my details as I know them. He'll probably have all the money for me that I requested within 2 weeks. School starts at the end of August where I'm going, so this is all going to happen pretty quickly. I hope so anyway. No use dragging it out any longer.

Thanks all.

F--k. That's the first word that comes to mind. NM, I hate this. I hate seeing you suffer but you know what? This outcome, HIM actually stepping up and making a decision in a way gives you all the personal satisfaction (strange choice of words I know but I don't know another) that you tried all you could. YOU didn't give up on this when there was still something not to give up on, and I suspect you understand that this is not necessarily the end, even if in your heart it is. I don't say that to sugar coat anything, just to remind you once again, that at the very least, he's likely to flip on YOU again, even if you don't with him.

I have been thinking a lot about how it would feel if things got to that point in my sitch and I am like you, I can make myself feel ok about it for a bit, but in the end NM, I fully understand your sense of failure. Of course, I don't believe you ARE a failure but I can understand that after all these months, really YEARS of trying, it has to be so hard to just have it end.

NM, please don't be a stranger. Please let us know how things are going. Vent, cry, celebrate, whatever. I've come to know you as such a wonderful, powerful, strong, passionate, caring, loving, peaceful woman and I don't want to lose you to the part of your life that maybe doesn't include "us" anymore.

Just check in, and maybe someday that a$$hole (pardon me) will realize once and for all that he made the biggest mistake of his life letting you go.

My heart goes out to you today NM.

GH

NM, I know it doesn't seem like it, but I really think this is for the best. If you and SO are ever going to have the relationship that you want, he's going to need some space to figure himself out. Best of luck! I know this is going to be hard.

Damn, GH, you had to go and make me cry.

Yeah, SO is really messed up. I can't help him, he has to help himself. And, while I intellectually know this, it still hurts. And, you're right too - that in some way, I have a (very small) sense of relief that he made the decision and didn't dump it on me to make.

However, this is my line in the sand. And he doesn't understand that. I know, don't rule anything out - but I have to. For MY sanity. For MY peace of mind. For the best interests of moving forward and letting it all go so I can begin a new life without always wondering about the woulda, coulda, shouldas.

I know I'm not a failure. It's just feels that way sometimes. As far as checking in here, lol, I feel the same way. Even if I don't post much to others, I read along and empathize and maybe, with a different perspective now, lol, I can offer more. Coming here to learn became a little part of my life.

Good Lord, this man is a MESS. Best to extricate yourself before he reels you back in - hey, I have been verrrrrrrrry impressed with you. NOT a failure in any way. I would have given up way before, had I been you, and you can go now knowing you gave it your very best, and he was not up for the challenge.

Please don't stop posting here, we would miss you! Let us know what's up. Likely he will change his mind again as he sees you packing up, he's such a screwball right now.

NM,

I am both very sad and very excited for you, as strange as that sounds. As usual, GH beats me to the punch and sums up my thoughts pretty well, but I want to say that you have given everything that you can and now you must move on to rebuilding your life. Obviously, you are not a failure and throughout this whole process I've always looked upon you as a very strong person (with a great sense of humor to boot!) who was grounded in reality. Although I don't post very often anymore, I do follow everyone's sitch, so please post updates as they become available. Take care of yourself and your wonderful children.

Rob

You guys crack me up! GH, RB, PARob, BI43, WL....I'm so glad you're all saying this stuff so I don't have to! Please, feel free to add some more!

Seriously, I'll be OK. I was never worried about ME being OK. The girls & I have pretty much lived on our own for 2 years. Not much will be changing for us, just the closets where we hang our clothes.

I really am beginning to wonder just how deep his mental issues are. I really hope he gets the professional help he so apparently needs.

But, for the record I have to say that I swear - for the 8 years we were together (I'm not counting these last 2 years as us being together) - he wasn't like this. They must have been casting for Invasion of the body snatchers one night when I wasn't looking! And he got the lead role!

The worst part about this NOW is the waiting. Waiting for $$, keeping an eye out for jobs & a place to live. Since I've accepted this into my mind, I don't want to wait any more. I can't deal with his sad sack emails, calls, etc anymore. I just want to be gone already. And done with the whole thing and moving forward. Pretty sad, if you think about it.

NM, I'm just checking in, let us know how you are and what is going on.

NM, Is SO planning to sell the house you guys bought?

How are you doing?

Yes,

I'd like to know what's going on with the house, cause I don't like how SO moves back in under the guise of wanting to be with you and then asks you to leave. Was this a convenient way to get the house for himself? I have 0 trust and respect for this guy and do not put anything beyond him.

You need to make sure to protect yourself legally from this mental case.

OK, I know you care about him. But I care about you and he makes me mad!

Ditto Whitelight!

GH

Yeah! What they said.

Thanks NNP, WL; GH; PaRob....

So, what do you say when there's nothing new to say? It's been the same old around here. SO has been here every day ...and coming home every night after his bar remotes. Claims he's not involved with OW any more. Tells me he's going to be devastated when we move out, yet doesn't want to seem to do anything different. He has hinted about me staying, but as far as I'm concerned, he needs to say something out right to me. He didn't have any problem asking me to leave, so if he wants me to stay, he should be able to say so.

I keep searching for rentals, yet nothing but 2 BR's seem to be available. I have no idea what will happen if I don't find something shortly. I did tell him that I would cut off my search by 8/15. That's just putting it too close to when school starts.

That's all for now.

Well NM, I don't know what to say. I think you are right that in this instanace it would be in order for him to verbalize whether he wants you to saty put.

What is the plan if you can not find a place my 8/15? Could you not make a 2BR work for you and the girls? Granted it would not be ideal, but it would not be forever.

Thanks Sara

The thing is, and maybe I'm wrong, but because he has issues, he's throwing me & the kids out of our home. So, for me to settle for a 2 bedroom apartment (we're moving out of a 5 BR, 3500 sq ft house and most of its contents) - I guess it just pisses me off. I mean, I don't think it's unreasonable to want a 3 BR place - even with that, 2 kids will be sharing a room...maybe it's my pride. Who knows.

We had a blazing argument just before. All this stress is getting to me. I asked him if he was working Saturday night, he said no, so I said "Good. You can watch the kids. I'm going out." That started a whole can't you wait until you move out of here, then you can go out when ever you want argument. And, never argue with a woman scorned who's PMSing - I blasted him. I'm starting to believe he IS nuts.

OK, so I'm going to look at a 3 BR place tomorrow afternoon. How come I feel like I've been kicked in the stomach?

And, going on a hunch, I checked SO's email, well - I don't have access to all of them. But, I see he's been emailing OW - begging her to talk to him. That he's doing all this to make her happy because she asked him to. Blah, blah. That's great. Do all this for a relationship with a girl that you've been lying to and cheating on. Oh that's right, and he'll even admit this, she doesn't know. About any of what's gone on between him & I. How lovely.

And what bothers me the most, is even knowing this, knowing he's sent those emails, I still love him very deeply. Well - not this nut job that's been around lately, but the other guy I used to know. Would most likely consider staying if he asked. What the hell is wrong with me? Why can't I just hate him and make this easier on myself?

Regardless, I'm resigning myself to moving out. He feels I'm in the way here, feels I'm in the way of his R with OW. He'll sacrifice our family to start anew with OW (as long as me & the kids are gone, according to her, it seems), even though he's never been truthful or faithful with her. So, then let it be so.

I'm beginning to believe the kids & I will have a more fulfilling life where we're moving. The only thing missing will be him, and, in reality, he's been missing for a while now. So, the kids will be able to see their aunts, uncles, cousins & grandparents almost daily. Fair trade for their father, I guess. Their father doesn't bother too much with them these days anyway. Always too busy; too tired; too much drama with OW - always too something.

And me. Well, I know never say never. But, once I've moved out, it will be very, very difficult for me to ever be able to look at him the same way. To know it was more important for him to give that *other* R another chance and not ours. So much so that the idea of being a part-time dad with a full-time girlfriend is more important. All the while knowing what I know about his honesty and integrity towards OW. Do you know he even had the balls to say to me "Who knows, six months down the road I may find that I want to marry you". Then, another one: "If you are still in love with me in a few months, you can always move back." Argh.

I mean, the thing is, and I can say this honestly. Had he ever once said he was really in love with her; stopped doing the things with me that he was doing, etc - it would have been a different ball of wax. I could have understood a little better. But, he's telling her one thing - me another. It doesn't make sense. Or, maybe it makes too much sense. Whatever. I suppose it doesn't really matter.

(((((((nm)))))))))

NM - we've come so far together haven't we? What a crazy year it's been.......

May you find the peace and happiness you so richly deserve....

NM, on one hand I surely do agree with you that you and the girls should not have to get a really small place. I was looking at it more from the stand point of just wanting you out of that situation.

What is up with these men of ours!?!?!?

Any news? How did the 3BR look?

TJ...You are such a sweetheart. Thanks for stopping by my neck of the woods. (And the hug -- right back at ya!)

Yeah...we've been through a lot....I just realized my year "anniversary" for being on here has just passed. Everone having a drink right now, raise a toast to me! (insert BIG eye roll).

OK...Sara...I know what you mean. At this point, I think we would all be better off just getting the eff out! Today he tells me - don't worry about it, you don't have to go - just stay here. My reply: "How can I stay here knowing you want me gone?" He says: It will be fine. I say: "No, it won't be fine. I will do whatever I can to find a place. I'll give it another 2 weeks and see what happens." He wanted to say more, but, being on the anti-DB roll I was on - I put my hand up to stop him from saying anything further and said "Let's just leave it alone and see what happens. No need to talk about it anymore right now."

Yesterday was actually hell before I got to leave here. I had to wait until after 1, to time it right to get to my 1st sisters house (just to visit for a bit)...she lives 5 minutes from where Sister #2 works....I was bringing my truck & kids to SIs #2, and taking her truck while she went on to her house with the girls. (Side note, SO still refuses to mention anything to the kids and family about all this.) But anyway - SO spent the entire 2 hours we saw him (before we left) laying on the couch crying. I finally got PO'd and told him to knock his crap off. He said he couldn't help it and why was I acting cold & mean. I told him not to take it personally, but if I didn't start acting like this wasn't bothering me, I would be crying as well. I told him I was hurt and bewildered and didn't understand all of what he was going through. I also asked why he was crying when this was his decision and all I was doing was respecting his wishes. I told him if I acted like a bitch to him now, he perhaps wouldn't feel so bad when we left. This just made him cry all the more. I know there was more a lot more talk between us, including me at one point bringing up OW. I actually asked him, asked if he was in love with her and if he wanted to be with her and wanted to have our kids involved with her then he needed to tell me. He denied it. Also denied being in any kind of contact with her. I again stressed to him that if that was what he wanted then he should just tell me so it would make things easier. Denied, denied, denied. Ok, WHAT ever.

When I left, he asked if I was coming back and I told him I didn't know. Which, I really didn't have any idea what I was going to end up doing. I threw a couple of things in a bag, but hadn't made up my mind because I was just so sick about the whole thing. I did end up staying at my sisters overnight. He called my cell numerous times throughout the afternoon/evening, but I hit ignore each time. Then he called my sisters house around 7 this morning wondering why I never called him. Whatever. He had also left 2 VM's on my cell and emailed.

So, the rental. The house was actually promising from the outside. Inside, not so great. I thought ceilings were supposed to be at least 8 ft? LOL This one was only about 6 or 6 1/2. And I'm not kidding - I'm tall - 5'10" {without heels} and I was ducking my head the whole way through. The landlord even made a comment about it. Anyway - he had 5 other people there looking at it besides me, plus took 2 calls while he was showing it, then stated he was showing it through Sunday. ....And, it wasn't available until 9/01, which is a problem as school starts 8/28 in that district. It didn't really sit well with me anyway - the inside was from 1950 and has never been updated - and I'm not kidding. I don't think I'd even take it if it was just ME and not with any kids. But, I sent the application in anyway.

And so, I keep looking. And I'll keep looking until the 15th or so. By then, it will be cutting things too close for the start of school. But, until that time comes - one day, one newspaper, at a time. I even had SO here earlier, had him sit right behind me while I was on the computer looking at the rentals in the papers. Don't want him to think I'm bullshit!ing him in my efforts or anything.

Next week, I'll be gone most of it. Going to my sisters again. The county fair is going on - we take the kids every year. She took a vacation week so we're going to take the girls school shopping (her D7 and my D7); one day to the fair, and another day either to a zoo or something. While I'm up there I'll look around for more rentals as well.

And that's it for today. I'm sure the weekend will bring more from SO.

I think it is highly likely that once you find a place and begin to move that he will "break" and beg you to stay. That would be just empty words though unless he is ready to give up the OW compeltely and do the work needed to repair your relationship.

I fear that you are not going to find a place and then be trapped there, with him in limbo and instead of him realizing what he needs to do he will be able to continue to blame you for everything.

I think it is nuts that he wants you and your (both of your) children to move out of your home. What is he thinking with? How can you guys afford for all of you to live somewhere else any better than you can afford for him to live in his apt?

NM, any new developements? Is today your deadline?

WOW, more than 2 weeks since I've been on here. Hope everyone is doing well...I have to spend some time catching up.

Recap of "events":

Big blowup Sunday, 8/6 - complete with OW calling, demanding to speak to me & telling me she doesn't have "a problem" with me; me making SO leave the house that night - sheer craziness - very ugly scene

Monday 8/7 - Another blowup - OW calling again, me packing up the kids and leaving for sisters one day early.

That week, SO says he found a 3 BR duplex - is going to look at it for me - it's a couple hundred more than what I would feel comfortable with on rent; he says the place is great but it's out of D7's school district - begs me to tell him what to do. I refuse - tell him to do whatever he wants. If he thinks it's suitable for us, then take it; if not, pass. He asks me "can you come back home tonight". I refuse.

I eventually come back...3 days after I originally planned; timing it so that we arrived when I knew he had to leave for a wedding. He was all over me; no words of missing me or anything, just trying to get me into bed. Denied.

During the next week, I keep looking in papers; not finding anything. On the 15th, lo & behold a place in our current town pops up. It's expensive, but not as much as the other one. We look at it. It's fabulous - nicer than our own home...lol. I tell him it is still a little more expensive than I'm comfortable with (his reply - then you can just move back here!!!). So far, I've told him to move forward with the paperwork, and he hasn't. I see the rental app sitting downstairs. Shrug.

Yesterday, I found a place back in our hometown. Made an appointment, told him to watch the 2 younger girls and went to look at it. Left a deposit. There is another person with a deposit on it as well; and the house is also for sale. Which has me very uncomfortable. But, I don't feel like I have much choice.

I've also been on two job interviews - both have actually been offered to me. They are around here where I currently live - so far, I've not done anything. I have a little time to make a decision, and quite frankly - neither one of them pays enough for me to make it on my own, so I don't know what to do.

Oh, and, more drama. THE icing on the cake. I just found out that OW is now claiming pregnancy. Jeez, who would have thunk it (dripping sarcasm.)

This all becoming too much to handle. I feel like SO has really turned crazy. on one hand, I love him deeply. But, I'm starting to wonder what the hell is wrong with him. He literally is changing his mind; says one thing, then the polar opposite - in a split second. He goes from one extreme to the other. Tells me he knows he loves me; but then the next says he knows it's best for us to split up. Says he's not involved with OW; then sneaks out to call her.

He doesn't know I heard about the pregnancy thing; I'm keeping that to myself.

Anyway - have to go now. I know this update isn't too well written. I'm hoping SO works tomorrow night (he's been letting others handle his bar remotes for the last 2 weeks) so that I can have some time to myself and perhaps give a better update and also check up on others.

Sara, GH, RB; PARob; whitelight - hope you all are doing well. Oldtimer - if you're still around - hope life with Newcomer is going well! FYI - I think of your advice to me (in the past) very often!

I am just so happy to see you have not fallen off the face of the earth! just kidding.

This is so bizare. Did you talk to OW when she called? Was SO there with you while that was happening?

You have so much up in the air right now, I hope you are taking care of yourself.

NM, what an ugly scene for you (and the kids! do they understand what the heck is going on?)

I'm so glad you posted, please keep it up when you can; we miss you, honey! You are doing the best you can in some crappy circumstances.

TMW,

You are making some strong steps forward. I'm really happy for you.

I think that's really mean of SO to tell you you can always come back to the house. Just keep moving forward like you're doing, he'll try to drag this out as long as he can.

OW Pregnant? She's not too sharp is she? Who would want to get pregnant during this whole escapade???

You can do soooooooo much better. This guy is seriousely mentally ill.

And the more you get your own new life established, the more clarity it will bring and the better you will feel.

Plus, I think there's a really great guy out there for you. You're so great, I just know that other people must see it too.

NM,

What can I say....I really think that you know what's best for you in this situation and from all appearances, you seem to be handling just right. Its tough, I know, but you have got to do what is best for you and your children. SO seems a bit unstable and, quite frankly, just downright confused. I'm really sad for you that it has worked out this way, but judging from your character (at least to the extent that character can be evaluated via cyberspace, lol) you seem to be very strong.

Again, sorrry to see you in this place, but I think that in some ways, it has allowed you to finally come to terms with "what is" and allowed you to make rational decisions. Good luck in anything you do and make sure you keep us posted!

Rob

How's this for mentally ill?

Last night a phone call came in after 10. In our house, no one calls after 9 unless it's an emergency or trouble.

SO got the call while I was in the bathroom. I eavesdropped and heard him say a bunch of "yeses"; "OK's"; "I moved back home" and "she's already called me a couple of times today". After he got off, I came out and asked "who was that?". D7 was still up and he looked at her and said "I'll tell you later."

D7 goes to bed; SO goes to the bedroom. I go in and ask again who the call was from. He says he doesn't want to talk about it. I ask again. Again he says to just let it go. I go check the caller ID and see it's the County Sheriff's Office. WTF??? I go back to the bedroom and ask "Is she pressing charges against you or something? What's going on?" He finally says he's been acting nuts. Called her a whole bunch of times, etc, etc. I let him talk a few minutes, then I didn't know what to say. I say "I'm going on a cigarette run (guaranteed at least 1/2 hour for me to collect my thoughts) need anything?"

I go and come back. He gets up for a few minutes; we are in the kitchen. Only talked very little - I really didn't know what to say to him. He goes back to bed; I make a sandwich.

As I'm heading to the living room, he tells me to come to the bedroom and sit with him. Asks "Am I that crazy? Am I that bad that I push people to this?" I said "Yes. You never stop." He asks, "Do I get mean?" I said "Yes. Remember when I called the cops on you? You wouldn't stop, SO. You just wouldn't stop. And you go on until you break someone." He started crying. Says "No reason for you to move out now." I say - "Yes, there's still every reason for me to move out. Especially now."

Anyway - none of that really matters. Today, I see that his mother's account has an email. We set up an account for her years ago for when she's here; she rarely uses it, I usually go in and delete the junk out of it - usually when I see there's mail or whatever. Not very often - usually every couple of months.

Today, something tells me to check it. The previously stored password has been changed. (Eyebrows go UP) Now, don't freakin' ask me how I did this, but a hunch gave me an idea and I typed in a guess at a password (that SO has used in the past) and it worked. I check the old/deleted/sent boxes. From what I can figure, SO emailed OW last night while I was out...from his mothers account, pretending to be the mother and asking what was going on. The OW answered her this morning, saying she'd write more this afternoon; requesting her phone # to call her and speak with her directly. The, ahem, "mother" then emails back with a song & dance about not giving it and a bunch of other blah, blah, blah - even so much as including that he's not acting right and wasn't sure if it was because of her (ow) or me & the kids moving out. (I unsent this, BTW.)

My point here, I guess, is what the hell do I do???? Has SO gone that far over the edge?? These are the actions of someone with some serious mental issues. Besides the fact that last night, even after the call, and today - he's trying to get me into bed with him!!

And, I swear guys, the last few months - this was never the SO I used to know. I don't know what's happened to him. The double life, the lies, the stress contributing to his physical illnesses - I don't know what to do. I'm beginning to get scared. Not scared for my life - but scared for him. His mental balance is disintegrating rapidly. Should I intervene somehow? Do I let him crash & burn?

I have no idea what to do.

Oh - and PS - I'm pretty sure the whole pregnancy thing was just bullsh!t from OW - used as some kind of scare tactic. I did some checking, call it snooping, but whatever - I needed to know some things, and there's pictures of her on her friends website drunk, and with pix of alcohol in her hands. I doubt she's pregnant. Just another immature kid stunt.

Who knows - the mentality of these two nut jobs - maybe they really do belong together. Crazy is as crazy does.

OK, how terrible is this. SO is gone for the night and I am so relieved I don't have to deal with him tonight.

I'm sitting here wondering what MY problem is. I unsent the earlier email, with the thought that I was doing something good. Perhaps helping to "save" him or something- from being arrested, losing his job, looking utterly insane - who knows - but that was my thought when I did it.

All day I've been wondering - should I call his mom and question her? The email he sent said something about him having been admitted to a hospital when he was a teenager for psych problems. Something I never knew. I have no one to talk to about this. I'm afraid if I talk to his mom, she's a blabbermouth - I don't want it getting back to him until I'm ready for it. Nor do I want the rest of his family to hear it. At least not yet.

But, is any of this MY business? That's what I'm questioning. I see he took the rental application tonight when he left (for the house here in D7's school district). Do I just move out - wash my hands of all this whole mess??

Do I try and help him? Do I have some kind of co-dependent, must help everyone syndrome myself? Am "I" the crazy one for thinking he's in desperate need of help instead of seeing him as a lying cheating bastard and just walking away from him? Am I any better having snooped in the email account? And, he's not said one word about "us"...other than he's confused, doesn't want to make any of the decisions, and doesn't know what to do.....

Again, last night in our talk, I asked him "Do you love her and want to be with her?" He says no. I mean - he won't take me out; makes no promises about a future with me - but, oh yeah, he'll sleep with me. And still, when given every opportunity to admit to wanting to be with OW - he won't do it? Why not? Is he afraid to hurt me? But he knows I know what's going on. Is he afraid of looking bad to me? Well, duh. Is he really that confused? Or just a schmuck?

Then - there's our kids. I have to deal with this man for the rest of my life. As long as we share kids - there's no real way to have him out of my life completely. No matter whether I love him or not. Do I try and help for the benefit of our kids? Stop the interference (from today, is what I'm talking about) and let the chips fall where they may, knowing the OW isn't stupid and she's going to see "his" mannerisms (and spelling errors) in the emails he's sending? Perhaps he should be arrested and lose his job. However, that will ultimately result in me & the kids being homeless as I would never be able to afford the mortgage on our house (that is if I were to stay here.)

And that's another thing. Seeing how unstable things are (HE is) - do I continue to find another place to live??? Or should I stay put?

Again - is this is any of my damned business???????? I don't know who to talk to. My friends - they'll all say GET OUT while you still can. His mom - I'm terrified she's going to run her mouth. My family - they'll tell me to get out, too.

God, this is so difficult.

My take?
- Ask his mom if H ever was treated before for any psych issues. Don't tell her about the email, just say he's been acting strangely and you're worried about him. If he attempted suicide as a teen, or had a psychotic break, that might be important to know in light of his current sitch.

- If you're really worried about him, just ask HIM what he wants. Say "I can see that you're not doing very well and I'm worried about you. Are you going to be okay if we move out? Would you prefer that I postpone moving out for a while?" What's another 3 or 6 months if it keeps him from suicide?

Ellie

NM, as the husband of a bipolar woman (who in November of 2004 was convinced that she was Satan), let me strongly advise you not to ask him about any past problems. I also wouldn't ask his mom. It really doesn't matter, because an affair is really a kind of mental illness in itself.

My advice to you is the same as it's been for months: get some distance between you. I really think that SO will change, but he's going to have to face reality, which will not happen until you are gone.

You cannot "rescue" him from his sitch, NM. He's going to have to want help before you can give it to him. Read this page if you're worried about him being suicidal or something. Don't be manipulated by his weirdness.

Detachment page at coping.org

NM, I don't know what to say. SO is certainly not acting like a rational person and the OW sounds just as goofy.

When does D7 start school?

Well, to be honest with you guys, I'm doing nothing. Looking at it today, I don't feel it's my problem. I will talk with his mom or dad, next chance I get, but I'm not going out of my way to call so as not to raise any alarms.

Ellie, thanks for your input, as always. RB, thanks for the web site. I spent a lot of time reading over it last night. NNP - thanks for your continued support.

I think it is time for me to be tough. I will move out. If God wishes it - I.E., if either of the rentals are offered to me, I will take the 1st one. Should they fall through, I will continue on as if I will be moving out locally and go back to work - just like I would be doing when living on my own. I'm going to keep looking for a rental in D7's school district (which starts 9/6) and enroll D3 into pre-school (which also has a deadline & runs the same as the school district schedule).

I can't keep up this seemingly eternal limbo life. I need to make the best decisions for me and the girls; today I strongly believe it to be for us to move out . SO needs to deal with his demons and his problems on his own. At this point, while I still love him and care about him very, very deeply, I don't think I'd be able to "get back" with him (not that he's indicated that or anything) unless he starts some kind of therapy. And, I really don't think he'll do it. So, what's that say?

And, I am very worried about him and his mental state. I also worry what will happen when we do move out. He was crying the other night saying he can't be alone; doesn't know how to be alone. So - yes, I am worried about that. I'm not a shrink - I don't know which is the best thing to do - move or stay.

When I read the detachment page, something jumped out at me:

"Being detached seems so cold and aloof. You can't be that way when you love and care for a person. It's either 100% all the way or no way at all."

I've struggled with this for such a long time and have not been able to figure out the correct formula of detaching without losing the love.

Well, as I'm typing this, the realtor (from my hometown) just called and said the owner decided to go with the other man who looked at the house, and she even said it was because of the fact that the house is for sale and this was a single man as opposed to a family. Damn.

I also see the rental application and credit report are back on the kitchen table - not filled out by SO (for the local rental). Guess I better get on it.

I'm so damned frustrated.

One Flew Over the CUCKOO'S nest is the subject line, did you know that movie one best picture in 1975?

NM,

I'm so sorry you are in this position. And once again I am amazed at your take charge attitude.

All right - opinions needed. The more I read, the more I believe SO to be suffering from major depression - most of the criteria are there. Yet, most everything I read says he won't listen to me if I suggest anything like therapy,
etc. Is this correct? Do I just sit back and watch him continue to spiral downward?

I know I'm probably going to get blasted because the following admission is one of complete anti-DB behavior on my part. I couldn't help it - *I* am almost to the end of my wits. But anyway - here goes:

Last night I actually did yell at him - yeah yelled. Told him he needs to get help for his obsessive compulsive manic behavior. Sometimes, it seems like he listens. I say this because he started questioning what I thought he did that was crazy behavior. I said "you harassed this girl until she called the cops on you"; and "You've done the same things to me". Pointed out some of the irrational behaviors he has been displaying (no - I didn't admit to knowing he's using his mothers email to pretend to be the mother to OW); pointed out his repeated comments on how he wishes he was dead (he says this to me at least once a day).

I also told him I had been thinking about him being in therapy and how I wasn't even sure that he would be able to do it. I said - if it's a man (counselor), I said I don't think you'll open up to a man - you'll be afraid to show him your weaknesses - you'll be afraid of looking like a lesser man than he is. Then I said, well, if it's a woman, if she's hot - you'll probably hit on her. So, what if it's an older woman? You'll see her as a motherly type and how he despises his own mother and mother figures. Quite frankly he was stunned when I said this to him.

So, yeah - I said all the wrong things. He said again he just wishes he was dead and doesn't know how to go on or why he should. I told him he has the 3 best reasons in the world to go on (our kids) and they should be his guiding light.

OK - this always happens, lol. His mom called a little while ago. I broke down and told her everything I knew. Her response - nothing nice; nothing helpful and nothing good to say about him. Gosh, and I wonder why he is the way he is. With a mother like that. Dammit all anyway.

Guys, I don't know what to do. I am so emotionally wrecked, I can't think straight. SO went away for the weekend at my suggestion. Presumably with a MF. Well, SIL called and said the OW was there. OK whatever, but I lose it with him. Ugly scenes have occurred, complete with W calling here and speaking with me last night where I proceeded to tell her everything I knew. Now, remember, she called the cops on him last week, he broke into his mothers email and was corresponding with her as his mother.

Well, none of this matters - because I was so anti-DB and did everything that I shouldn't have. He's pushed me and verbally abused me to the point I feel like I am going to crack. Seriously. I can't take it anymore. I can't take any of this anymore and I don't know what to do.

He's due back here sometime this afternoon and I'm to the point that I want to put a restraining order against him - that's how bad all of this has gotten. I have no money to leave; my Explorer is broken and needs to go in the shop for repair (no brakes) - so I don't have a vehicle big enough for all 3 kids and me to go stay anywhere.

I fear when he gets back, he's going to verbally start in on me. He's reduced me to tears, to the point of hyperventilating this weekend - he's being cruel and mean and spiteful. He won't just leave me alone. And I don't know what to do or how to handle this. I've already pushed him back into the arms of OW; and that's fine at this point. I can not compete with his feelings that *I* am standing in the way of their happiness. Yes, that's what he's told me. And so did she.

I have an application in on a rental - but haven't heard anything yet. I am willing to move out - I've not tried to hamper that in any way - but he's still being emotionally vindictive. In the meantime, until I find another place to live so they can be "in love" with me "out of the way" - I can't take his physical presence anymore. Or the phone calls, or the texts, or him sleeping next to me in bed. I can't do it.

The restraining order will completely infuriate him. But I'm more concerned with my OWN sanity at this point. I'm so emotionally distraught, it's difficult even for me to care for the kids. As far as any R with him goes, I know now that I need to completely remove myself from his life or he will just continue to blame me for everything bad that he perceives that I'm the cause of.

I know no one can help me make this decision. But advice & opinions are desperately needed.

I've seen similar actions in my WAW...and I am also concerned like you are, and wrestling with what to do. If I intervene, I play into the hands of, "the controlling husband." If I do nothing, she will crash eventually...I just hope nothing serious happens. I worry about my kids as well...and the impact her behavior has on them. Just requires a lot of love and patience. I wish you luck...he does need professional help (good professioinal...because there are many bad ones out there, as I've learned).

Thanks DA13

Right now I'm so torn....I'm making myself sick. On one hand, I've reached the end of my rope. I can't take the emotional & verbal abuse any more. To stop that, I have involve the police.

On the other hand, I'm petrified of doing that. Why, I guess because I know it will be "the end".

This is what I've been reduced to. Being fearful of doing ANYTHING.

I am not saying involve the Police, but maybe the police being involved would wake SO up enough to see his part in this and that he needs help.

I am very worried about you and the girls. You have no job no means to support your self at this time. I honestly do not understand how you are supposed to move out of your home and live somewhere else. Won't SO be paying for that too? In which case won't he feel he has the right to be there when he wants?

I am sorry I can not offer any real advice. I am very worried about your health, mental and other wise. I wish I could do something for you.

Have you looked in to what kind of support he will be paying once you are really seperate? I really hesitate to say this NM, but have you looked into what kind of services may be available to you as far as assitance?

I jsut do not see how you can do this on your own. If you are truly fearful of him you do need to contact some authorities, maybe even a call to a woman's center . Atleast find out what is available.

NM,

I am praying for you. I do not use the following word lightly. Insane - that is what your SO is right now.

I am praying.

Well, made it through the afternoon and evening unscathed. I did call his father, and explained everything that happened over the weekend and up to this point. His father told me that SO told him I was moving out this weekend and he couldn't bear the pain so that was why he was there. Also told him I had a job already and some other BS. Explained OW as a "good friend" helping him through a tough time. Ick. His father urged me to just leave him - any way I can. Said he had been like this before I met him, then thought SO had changed when he met me. Explained that a previous girlfriend (before me) also had to run away from him, got a protection order against him which he violated and was put in jail for a night. More info I never knew before.

I also called both the sheriff's dept and state police - both of whom told me I can't have him evicted from his home - at least not by them, but would have to go through NY Family Court.

OW called here tonight as well. 1st time I answered - she must have gotten a new # and I didn't know it was her. uh - it jsut hit me, of course she got a new # last week after calling the cops on SO. Anyway - she asked for SO, I said can I take a message and she said she would call back. I still didn't know it was her until she called later in the evening and SO took the call. I just stayed in the kitchen on the other side of the house while he was on the phone. And, wouldn't you know it, he came in and accused me of eavesdropping - even though he saw me sitting in there. Whatever. I didn't argue the point. Just let him rant - then he said "I'm not having this conversation" and he walked away.

When he went to bed, he said he "had" to sleep in "our" room at least one more night. He asked if I was sleeping on the couch. I asked back, "Do you want me to sleep on the couch?" He said no. I have a raging headache (go figure) and he gave me one of his pain pills for it earlier so he asked if I still had it (the headache). I told him I wasn't sure where I would be sleeping, but probably in the bedroom. He said OK and went to bed.

I'm trying to just let everything go. JUST LET IT GO, NM! I asked him if he heard from the realtor and he said she was supposed to let him know today. Nail biting until then. In the meantime, I'm staying away from him and out of his line of fire. I only speak to him when spoken to.

All day long I kept thinking about how badly I've regressed since he moved back in. Holding everything in today took all the strength I possessed. This weekend felt like "the bomb" all over again for some reason and it hit me (and hurt me) just as badly as the first time around.

I wish I could find my DB book. I've packed it somewhere and can't figure out where I put it. I just have to remember to retreat back to dark. Let him go - it's all about him. He sees me as the root of all problems right now and I won't be able to do anything right in his eyes, so I need to stay out of his eyesight.

As a matter of fact, perhaps a new 180 for me would be to encourage his R with OW.

NNP - I don't see how I'm going to be able to do this financially either. My intent is to go back to work, but that's barely going to cover childcare expenses. And, when I point the finances out to him, he tells me I'm just making excuses. Never mind that he had difficulties paying the $750/month on his apartment - my rent's going to be more. But, I can't argue with him because he views it as me being difficult and trying to find excuses not to move out. We do have some money set aside for rent and daycare, but of course it will run out. Even with me working and adding to it, it will only sustain me for a few months. I will have to go to court and get child support in place.

Whitelight - thanks for your prayers. I hope you're including SO in them because I think he needs it more than I do right now.

NM, this is breaking my heart for you that you don't have the resources to get out of there. Can family not help you financially, or loan you a car? Where are your parents (forgive me for not remembering if you've posted about your R with your family before). You need to take advantage of the kindness of people right now who can help you. How are your kids? Please try to call some agencies there for help (I KNOW, nobody wants to do that but I think you NEED to at least for the short term). I am worried about you and the kids.

NM,

You mentioned you wish you could fine your dbusting book etc.

You can't dbust with an insane person. Trained Psychiatrists can't even cure people with personality disorders which it sounds like your SO has.

You are an amazing dbuster and an amawzing person and mother. I don't know how much more of this you can take.

Yeah, wasn't it an option to move back home for awhile? WHy not do that?

Even in your hard times you ask for me to pray for SO? You are soooo loving.

Not much to add from me NM. I just wanted to give you a ((((NM)))) and tell you to hang in there. I really hate that things have come to this, but I KNOW you will be ok. You are a fighter and this is one battle you WILL win... to have your kid's/your happiness back that is. Everything else will come.

GH

Thanks all....

Thanks for the hug GH, I needed that!

So, my new perspective - one of letting it all go, so far is working. Working for me, I don't really care if it works for SO or not. And, I call him "SO" loosely, lol, not quite ready to use XSO yet, and can't come up with any better acronyms - if ya'll have any ideas let me know. Besides AH (a$$hole) lol. Kidding. See, I CAN bounce back!!

Good news - I have decided to get my real estate license again. I got it in 2000, but let it expire with my last employer as I didn't need it in that field and she (my boss, the owner) wasn't comfortable with me having my license in any other office that was a direct competitor. Understandable at the time; stupid of me in the long term. Oh well, it's just another $350 of SO's money (lmao) and I can get it in less than a month. So, I will. WTH do I have to lose?

And, D3 is enrolled in pre-school. Yeah! Although SO wasn't happy with the amount of the check I wrote. HAH! Although my reasons for putting her in this school are because it's cheaper than any daycare I could find. He just doesn't comprehend how much this stuff costs. Even when it's right there in B&W in front of him. Her school is only going to cost $290 per MONTH, and daycare would cost $175.00 per WEEK! So, I wrote a check for 2 months; plus the registration fee, book fee, insurance fee - came to almost $800. I thought he was going to faint. I'm laughing, but too damned bad. He can write it off on his taxes. He wants me out - this is what it's going to cost. It ain't cheap, baby! (Just my bitchy side coming out here, I calmly showed him the paperwork for both school and daycare; asked if he wanted me to pull her out of the school and enroll her in the daycare - he said no.)

Also, you guys know I'm not the best DBer here. Not by a long shot. I try to admit when I've done things completely wrong. I packed my book away because the damned thing always gives me hope when I read it. I guess, looking back over the weekend, and the time since SO moved back in, I was trying to give him the benefit of the doubt about the reasons "WHY" he was moving back. I mistakenly took it, even though he only hinted at wanting to get back with me - well, I guess I took it too much to heart. So, when OW stays in the picture, well - this past weekend, SO bringing OW to "our" place - the place where we first fell in love; the place where we've been able to go by ourselves; well - it was like MY last "thing" that I had to hold on to was taken from me. And spoiled by OW being there. It hurt me far deeper than anything else he's ever done with her. I guess maybe because all the memories he's had there were, up until now, with me; now he's always going to have memories of her there as well. That cuts me.

I know I shouldn't let it get to me, but it did. Coupled with all the lies he told everyone; the things I found out that I didn't know about him; the stress of trying to find a place to live (in 3 different areas). All of it damn near caused me to blow. I regret now telling his father everything; I regret telling his mother what I told her. Not because SO has found out; but - well, I don't even know why.

If I was truly DBing - none of where he takes OW; what he says to OW; or even what he says to his family should really be of any concern to me. But it all got to me. I'm dealing with a man who is part MLC; part plain old WA. He's got his anxiety attacks and physical illnesses partly brought on by the way he handles problems. Perhaps manic; obsessive; or even (God-forbid) narcissistic tendencies.

I realized that every time there was a crisis in our R, I've always stepped up to the plate when things got out of control. I would let him go until he couldn't fix things on his own and then I would take over. I haven't done that this time. I didn't step in and make demands or give an ultimatum about OW. I haven't tried to assist in his financial difficulties (I mean managing the money as opposed to going back to work). I haven't repaired his damaged friendships or family ties because of the problems caused by his R with OW. I haven't done any of that stuff - the "fix it" stuff, anyway, that he had previously relied on me to do.

As far as OW, I'm resigned to the idea that "they" will continue to have a fantasy of what things will be like until "I'm out of the picture." If I were to continue to live here, it will just keep their R in fantasy-mode. And I can't compete with that. So, I will do my best to - I hesitate to say "encourage", but at least take away the clandestine, taboo, illicit status that they had previously.

And, I may even go out on a date!

Well, not really a "date", but an "I've got a friend I want you to meet" kind of thing my friend suggested to me the other day.

All right - D2's up from her nap, so, back later with the rest that's running through my head. I need to get it out. LOL And SO will be at work tonight, so perhaps my kids will let me get on here for a bit!!

Still nothing about the rental. This has me so on edge.

And, I guess because the R with OW is supposed to be flourishing, now I'm dealing with her calling here. Can I say *%^$@#! I'll say it here, because outwardly towards SO I'm acting calm and serene. To the point that he mentioned how different I've been these last few days. Fine, let the naive little fool call here if she wants. Let her put demands and pressure on SO because I'm not. And yeah, he's still sleeping in "our" room, and exerting effort into getting me to ML with him.

I'm trying to get this out of my system here. SO saw OW called, but has made no attempt to call her back. That means she'll probably call again. He's out in his garage, and I'm not answering. Let her wonder.

Talked with SO's step-mother last night. I explained to her in more detail what I thought was going with SO - mentally, anyway. I really have no idea how much should be left to the depression he's in; whether it's MLC - which I think is some of it - or WTH is going on with him. He has stopped taking the xanax.

I suggested he get it refilled. This was after he tried to take a nap and came out after an hour saying all he could do was lay there shaking and crying. I could see his eyes were red; but made no comments.

Oh, found my DB book last night. After ripping through every box I had packed, it wasn't in any of them. So, I looked in my "usual" hiding place and there she be. Duh!

Oh! While typing this - just got an email from a local real estate company. Yeah, they want to interview me! Who-hoo. And, I believe they pay for half the tuition costs!

Well, last night was excruciating. OW calling here several times. Didn't leave any messages. SO was in the garage each time she called. When he came in, the phone rang again. He looked at the ID, then looked at me and asked how many times she called. I shrugged, said I'm not sure. He didn't pick up.

After D7 was in bed, he went to the computer and said "if she calls again, I'm going to have to take it." I said "OK". He asked, "you're being very calm about this." I said "Well, if I have to accept it, I have to accept it. If I have to accept her in your life, then I have to. No big deal."

He gets online, I watch TV. At one point, I looked over and saw he was chatting with her online. No comment, I just laid in a position where I could NOT see him or the computer.

While dually chatting with her, he was talking out loud with me. Asking me if I had plans for the weekend. I said I may go out with some friends. Who? Where? When? Etc, etc. I remained vague. He asked if there was going to be any men there. I said perhaps, I didn't know all my plans yet but when I had something set up, I would let him know. He went on & on demanding details. I said, "SO, when I don't live here anymore you aren't going to know, so why the need to know now? I have nothing concrete yet." I kept trying to change the subject, pretending to be completely absorbed in the TV.

He asked something about me moving out along the lines of "Is it going to be OK for me?" (Not sure what he meant). I said Yes, it will be fine. He asked about what I was going to do about work. I relayed the info about the realty company interview. He was quite surprised. He said it would be "no big deal" if the rental fell through. I asked, "Why don't the two of you just get your own place together?" He said, "I tried that and it didn't work. I hated it. I hated not being here. This is what I've worked for and where all my things are." I said, OK, just asking. He asked, "You don't think I'm going to have her move in here, do you?" No response from me. Pretending to be engrossed in TV. Finally got the subject changed.

He heads to bed, asking "Are you coming?" I respond, in a little while.

This is so crazy. And still no word yet on the rental.

NM can you call and check on the rental? I think I would be calling everyday just to make sure they know how interested you are.

Thanks, NNP.

The rental is co-broked thru 2 real estate companies. So, calling the listing agent is a no-no. Doesn't help that our agent is on vacation, however, she knows we're waiting to hear.

Today's festivities brought SO coming home with lunch; checking the caller ID and asking why the agent from the other house called here. I told her she called about a rental that may be coming available and asked him where the town was, because I didn't know. He asked if I wanted to move there because "that's where my boyfriend is?". WTH? Ah, yes, I mention I may go out with friends this weekend and all of a sudden I am "spitefully" going out with other guys. Once again, I reiterated I still had no concrete plans for the weekend yet.

A little bit later he asked me again about jobs, working, having enough money. Most of my answers were "I don't know." He asked why all of a sudden now are you going to get your license again? And how is that going to work with the kids when you could never get it to work before?" Again, I said "I don't know yet." He responds with: "Lately there's been so many 'I don't know' answers. Why? " (I don't think I have it exactly the way he said it, because I got out of it that HE has "I don't know" answers as well and wasn't happy with either of us answering that way. Although, WTH knows, maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I took it.) I said, I don't have all the answers, I don't even want to have all the answers." Then I left him to nap.

When he got up, he came and sat with me & the girls at dinner....and it seemed like every few minutes he would ask me what was wrong. I think because I've been acting so devil-may-care lately (finally); I wasn't doing anything other than being happy and upbeat with the kids. He then questioned again - if the rental is going to be OK; do I want to move out or not; and what I'm thinking. I acted blase; never directly answered anything, then he says "we're going to have to have a serious discussion one of these nights with all bullsh!t aside." I said "all right."

Yeah, I'll say it - inside I was thinking YOU are the one with the bullsh!t problem - not me! And these days you don't know the facts from the fiction that you've told - but, yes, yes - I kept that all to myself!

One day at a time....

Can anyone out there translate "Alienspeak" for me? The only languages I was offered in high school were French, Spanish and Latin...lol.

It's 4 AM when his alarm goes off. I'm laying there, in a sleepy fog, he squishes up against me and starts kissing my ear. ????? I ask, what are you doing (sleep talking - not my consciousness, although perhaps my subconscious?) Anyway, after saying it, wishing I could take it back. He mutters something unintelligible. I drowse, he keeps hitting snooze, finally gets up, showers, leaves.

Awake to email saying he'll take 2 older girls with him this afternoon to pick up my Explorer. My response: "OK".

Next email: "Even though they are my kids too, but since you have plans already, I would like to Take D7 and D3 to B's Sunday afternoon and camp in the trailer, just the 3 of us, D2 will be too much, and i wont be able to do anything w/ the other two. I'll bring their 4 wheelers, I need to do something like that w/ them before its to late"

Me: OK (This is different for me, normally I would ask details)

Next: Where will D2 be?
Me: Probably with me, my plans fell through for the weekend.

Then me, with apprehension, Was I having weird dreams again this morning or did you kiss my ear?
Him:I was having a weird dream, kept hearing you wanted me, I prob did that, I think I remember, sorry
Me: Don't be sorry. However, if there's ever a next time, make it count.
Him: What do you mean?
Me:Well, I think I asked what you were doing. Sorry if that was mean. I was in a sleepy fog and I didn't know whether I was awake or dreaming. I didn't want to make an ass out of myself if I was only dreaming. Had you continued and broken though my fog, well, my wall probably would have come down.
Him: (re: taking kids) Prob not this weekend, maybe next weekend, way to rainy and cold for the little ones, they will be sick for the 1st week of school

I'll fig something else out. I still cant figure out your last "Make it count email"
Me: ok....about the weekend.
My last email....hmmm, well, I would have liked you to do more. *I* would have liked to have done more back. I was mostly asleep and wasn't sure what was going on. And I get scared of you. And so, I do nothing and wait for YOU to do something.
These days I often think of anything between us as perhaps the "last". The last we'll do 'this'...or the last we'll do 'that'. So, I guess I want to make sure it's done right. If you're going to kiss me, don't stop with my ear.
And, yes, sometimes I need to be drawn out of my shell. Because I've gotten used to keeping a wall up between me & everything going on.
Don't know if this helps explain anything or not.

He finally leaves work and calls... Evidently the potential landlord wants to meet with us prior to deciding on renting. SO calls and asks me "Should I say OK?"
I say "OK."
He says "What's wrong?"
Nothing, why?
Goddammit what are you thinking? You need to tell me what you're thinking and what you want!!! (screaming at the top of his lungs)
I'm afraid to tell you what I'm really thinking.
You've always been like this - don't you think you need to start talking to me? My eyes are going to explode right out of my head from all this (Still yelling at the top of his lungs). I thought we agreed you need your own place.
I feel as though I'm just along for the ride. I don't think what I feel or what I want matters right now.
What do you mean along for the ride? Isn't this what was decided?
OK, SO.
What do you mean, OK??????
OK, it will be fine. I just worry about the amount of the rent.
Why? I'm paying the rent. You'll need to get a job ASAP and you'll only have to worry about bills and diapers.
OK, SO.
End of convo - cell breaking up.
Then, text:
What the hell, NM?
I text back I'm sorry to have angered him. That this is what he wants and what I feel doesn't matter right now.

It's taken every ounce of my being to state I'm not comfortable moving into this place. I'm not. The rent is way too high. I just don't feel as though I have a choice. I have no idea what HE really wants; plus I have no idea what I should do anymore. Everything seems so cloudy; no answers; I don't know which direction to go.

I feel if I state what's really going on inside me, he'll say I'm being difficult, causing trouble, etc. Actually, he's already said that. I keep it in, force him to make a decision - then he says I'm the same old NM and don't tell him what I'm thinking. He asked, "Now that it's down to the wire do you not want to go? Why not - I thought we decided on this?"

Sometimes it seems like he's begging me to say I won't go. But if I hint at that, he flies off the handle. Or, am I just projecting what *I* want to hear into what he's saying?

I'm so damned confused.

NM, I have a couple of questions if you don't mind. Is your name going to be on this lease or is SO's? Is he planning to pay the rent or is he paying you a monthly sum?

I just get the feeling that he plans to still be in control of you because of money. Maybe I am way off base and I apologise if so, but it worries me.

No, NNP, I don't mind the questions.

Quote:

Is your name going to be on this lease or is SO's? Is he planning to pay the rent or is he paying you a monthly sum?

He's going to be listed as the Guarantor, with me as the tenant. He'll pay the rent, as well as putting additional money in my account, as it is now. He's got money direct deposited from his paycheck into the account for me.

Incidents like yesterday are what drives me to want to get out of here. When he got home from work, it was already around 1 PM. He also had to work last night, from 8 to 4. But, my truck was at the dealership, fixed. So, he decides he's going to go get it. But, in order to go get it, he's got to take the trailer and tow it back. Now, if we had another vehicle that fit all of us, (instead of the 2 pickups and sports car that he's got), this wouldn't have to be. We could have just drove up there and one of us driven my truck back - like normal people. But, whatever. So, the whole time he's bitching that he's going to lose sleep because he's got to get "my" truck. I suggested we postpone it until morning, while I tried to find someone to watch the kids, this way he could just drop me off at the dealer as he's on his way to the wedding he has to DJ. Nope. He insists he's going right then. Well, OK, whatever then - lose sleep. It's one hour to the dealer - one way. So, he wouldn't be back until at least 4. Which is what happened.

When he gets back, he's griping about losing 3 hours of sleep for "me". See, NM, I'll do anything for YOU. Checks caller ID, (yes, OW called, didn't leave message), but he didn't call her back. Just asked that he be woken up at 6:45. I said OK. He went on that he probably wouldn't be able to sleep anyway.

He goes in; comes back out after about 45 minutes, says he's just laying there shaking. Goes back, calls me in, hints at ML; I tease about it; reminding him all 3 kids are up, etc, leave the room. Around 5, while I was in the kitchen finishing the kids dinner, the phone rings. I can hear a man talking into the answering machine and go in to see who it is - it's his dentist saying he can't keep prescribing "analgesics" for him, that he needs to get his procedure done (the rest of his root canal.)

I wake him up for work; he asks if anyone called. I remember the dentist and tell him. He GOES BALLISTIC!! Screaming why didn't I wake him up; he NEEDS his vicodin!! (OK - so now I'm thinking, you've been on vicodin since being in the hospital back in June - can we say addicted??) Anyway - he starts yelling that all I want is to cause trouble for him; how can he go through the weekend without pills; blah, blah. He gets on the phone and gets the dentists answering service. Flips out on them. Yelling, cursing, etc. The doctors office calls back and explains that the doctor didn't know he has an appointment (for this coming Thursday) and that a prescription is called in to the drug store.

He still comes out and asks why I was trying to wreck his weekend for him. In the midst of this, he thinks he lost a contact (my fault because I made him mad) has me look in his eye for it; at the same time his stepmother calls (WHY is she calling you? Me: probably something about D7's upcoming birthday, phew, good one, NM)

While all this bellowing & ranting (by him) was going on, D7 just looks at me, like "WTH's wrong with Daddy?" She wasn't scared, but I could tell by the look on her face she couldn't figure out what he was so mad & yelling about. I just looked at her and shook my head no, as if to say, not now, we'll talk later and she went to the den to watch TV. After he finally left for work (Yes, late, which was my fault because he had to spend time on the phone needlessly) and angry (my fault because I got him all worked up by not waking him to take the dentists call); I explained his behavior by saying he needed his medicine for the pain in his mouth and that he was upset because he didn't have much sleep and was late for work. I really didn't know what else to say. Through the whole thing I just stayed away from him and let him roar. I only said to him that I didn't hear the whole message from the doctor and apologized because I thought he needed to sleep rather than take the call.

This morning I wake up to a message saying it was 3:30 (Actually the caller ID says 2:30) and he was still at the bar and would be staying over "here". Would be home around 9 AM to get ready for his wedding this afternoon/night. Whatever. I actually had a peaceful night sleep and glad I left the phone in the bedroom unplugged so I didn't have to speak with him.

So, anyway, incidents like the whole dentist thing (besides wondering if he's now addicted to prescription drugs) gives me another check mark in the "Con" side of moving out. Yeah - I started a list - Pro's & Con's of Moving/Staying. Plus, I couldn't tell by the message if he was drunk or not last night, but does it matter? Evidently he found a better offer than coming home. Shrug.

Days like today I wish I could just go somewhere and get out of here. But, it's cold & rainy, Ernesto's effects - going to be rain for days. Where would I go? Everyone's houses are smaller than ours, kids would be cooped up no matter where we went. And, He wants to spend time with them tomorrow. Sigh. I guess me leaving would be running away. Perhaps tomorrow I will go somewhere for the night and come home Monday. Leave him with the kids. Although I can see it already - I'm going out all night for spite, what guy am I with, blah blah.

It's gonna be a long weekend.

My conundrum....move out or stay?

It's coming down to the wire; I need to make a decision THAT I DON'T WANT TO MAKE!

I feel all this pressure - from SO to get out. I'm terrified of the financial situation more than anything else, although I admit to some fears about "us". When I really think about though, it's more the money issue. I'd feel more secure with a job in place - I have none right now. If I get my RE license, it won't be until October. Thus, no income at least until then. SO is very, very untrustworthy when it comes to money these days. He couldn't even afford his $750 month rent on his apartment, so how the hell is he going to be able to pay this rent, which is $500 more? Plus daycare, dual bills, etc.

When I try to talk about this, he sees me as being "difficult". And trying to cling to him. But my goodness - doesn't he see? Or, am I just supposed to go. Take the kids and hope and pray that he does what he says he's going to do?

Do I make a stand; I'm not comfortable with this decision yet? I'd feel much better about it if I had a job secured. And, if all the money currently in the bank wasn't going to be gone when the check for the security, 1st, & last months rent is written? And then what about incidentals? There'll be no $$ for that; curtains, garbage cans, pots & pans, etc. I mean, I plan on taking all the big things, (furniture, TV, beds microwave, etc) but we don't have dual stuff like that. I believe OW brought (and took back) that kind of stuff for his apartment. Or, he just went without them. Or are these just stupid excuses I'm coming up with?

Can anyone help me sort out the these pro's & cons and to be able to make a fully informed, completely aware decision?

I would speak to an attorney about getting a child support order - that way at least you have the option of garnishing his wages if he doesn't pay his share.

Ellie

Well, Ellie, from what I've been able to find out, as we are not married I first have to go through paternity testing. This requires him being notified, so nothing I can do without his knowledge. Then, once paternity is established, then comes the child support issue. And trust me - I argued about this because he'slisted on their birth certificates. With 2 of 3 kids being born in NY, he had to sign an affidavit of paternity right in the hospital and have it witnessed before he could be put on the birth certificates. It appears, though, that NY doesn't even recognize their own paperwork as I was told I STILL had to go through the paternity testing for all 3. ( D7 was born in FL and yes, she's on the birth certificate as well, and yes, we went through something very similar down there. )

Of course, he has pleaded with me to keep it out of the courts. The amount in NY that I could find as average child support i 28% for 3 kids. We did a calculation and this would be equal to what he would pay in rent and some of the daycare costs. Of course, I have no intention of NOT taking it to through the courts if I move out. I hadn't done anything yet due to not wanting to alienate (?) infuriate (probably more accurate) him, because, like I said, due to the paternity testing he will be contacted.

Perhaps not the smartest decision I've made (of many, but who's counting

); it seemed rational at the time. I'm living here; he's paying everything; plus puts money in an account for me. It didn't seem necessary to begin any of this court process. Until now, it seems.

I would think paternity testing would only be necessary if he CONTESTS it, right? You can't tell me they are doing lab tests on every single couple out there???

I might get another legal opinion. I can't believe he can't just admit they are his and have it be over. Seems wacky.

If you move out and DON'T have an order for support, then you are depending on him in his current state to manage his money well enough to provide for you and woo OW at the same time? Seems really risky.

I would get all that paperwork ready to file before you move out.

Ellie

I know what you mean, Ellie. This is what I was told when I called the court house. To bring copies of the birth certificates and any other paperwork I had (which I had them make copies of everything we signed at the hospital, knowing what I went through in FL - not becasue of any difficulties in the R) and I would have to file (& pay) for a Petition of Paternity. I did argue with them as it did sound wacky to me as well, but that's what they told me. I will call again Tuesday to verify.

In the meantime, we run to the convenience store before and my D7 starts singing a Kid Rock song. OK, SO does "country!!"; I'm the rock & roll aficionado around here.

Anyway...I ask her where she heard it and she says Daddy keeps playing it over & over whenever we're in his truck. Says he feels like this is his song.

Only God Knows Why

I've been sittin here
Tryin to find myself
I get behind myself
I need to rewind myself
Lookin for the payback
Listen for the playback
They say that every man bleeds just like me
And I feel like number one
Yet I'm last in line
I watch my youngest son
And it helps to pass the time
I take too many pills it helps to ease the pain
I made a couple of dollar bills, but still I feel the same
Everybody knows my name
They say it way out loud
A lot of folks f*ck with me
It's hard to hang out in crowds
I guess that's the price you pay
To be some big shot like I am
Out stretched hands and one night stands
Still I can't find love

And when your walls come tumbling down
I will always be around

People don't know about the things I say and do
They don't understand about the sh!t that I've been through
It's been so long since I've been home
I've been gone, I've been gone for way too long
Maybe I forgot all things I miss
Oh somehow I know there's more to life than this
I said it too many times
And I still stand firm
You get what you put in
And people get what they deserve
Still I ain't seen mine
No I ain't seen mine
I've been giving just ain't been gettin
I've been walking that there line
So I think I'll keep a walking
With my head held high
I'll keep moving on and only God knows why

Ah, yes, SO's life in a nutshell. It makes me sad my daughter correlates this song with her father. It makes me want to cry.

I am THE most unlikely Kid Rock fan you will ever find! lol As a mattter of fact I call myself a closet Kid Rock fan.

Only God Knows Why and Midnight Train to Memphis are my two fav songs by him (I have to fast forward through some of Midnight Train though... my virgin ears ya know) ROFL

NM, I am still very worried about this arraingement. He will still be in control financially and you will be at the mercy of his moods and whims.

Most divorce attorneys will give free inital consultations, and even though you aren't married, it seems that many of the issues are the same - shouldn't you speak to one before you move out? I just can't believe there isn't some way around the DNA testing if he agrees he is the dad - just seems like an unnecessary expense.

Perhaps once you consult with an attorney and find out the best way to do this, you could get him to go with you to have the papers filed before you move out. Just approach it as "even though we aren't married, this is the same as a divorce in regards to child support and visitation. We both need to be protected - I need a guarantee of child support, you need a guarantee of visitation rights - so let's get that done now before I move so there won't be any confusion".

That way, he would A) have to face reality a little bit more about what all this means, and B) you'd still have some leverage to get it done (as in, I'm not moving until the support order is in place). Once you're out of the house, what motivation would he have to do his part of the paperwork??

Ellie

Watch out about moving out before contacting a lawyer - you may be hit with an abandonment charge... Get all your ducks in a row, before you move one inch!!!

NNP - a closet kid rock fan! Who would have thought!

I don't particularly care for him, but if I had to pick one song I liked, it would be Picture. Yeah, more parallels to my life.

Anyway - today, I'm getting the hell out of here!! I don't care where I go, probably last minute back to school shopping for the kids, but I'm outta here. Leaving SO with the kids and don't plan on coming back until 8 PM (when the race starts!) That is, unless I find somewhere else to watch it! LOL

Ellie, thanks for your input. I plan on calling the courthouse again Tuesday, just to verify the notes that I took. Yes, I'm kind of anal that way - took notes while talking to them.

SO got home around 8 last night from work, earlier than I had anticipated. Him & his friend worked in the garage until 11 or so. I had actually gone to bed, but he came in and woke me. Clearly expressing his surprise that "I wasn't up waiting for him."

He mentioned something about "He has to meet with those people Tuesday". My response, "MmmmHmmm." Ok, so maybe *I* can get out of it. I don't want to go. I think I've decided to discuss this further with him; just not sure when. I'm simply not comfortable with the lack of $$$. No job, etc.

On the personal level - well, I don't know what would be best. I know when he had his apartment, we seemed closer. But, he seems to go through that whole "when he's with me he wants to be with OW; when with OW wants to be with me" thing. You know - wanting what you don't have. I think my greatest fear is staying here and making it worse between us. Not for anything I do or don't do, but rather that *I* will be perceived as the last thing standing between Romeo & Juliet's "in love" happiness.

(boy, I wish they had a thowing up smiley face that I could insert here - Lol) Know what I mean?

He also initiated ML last night. Yeah, I did. For good or bad, who knows. To me, it signifies his continued confusion. Maybe not the best reason in the world to do it, but, WTH. Maybe not even accurate, maybe I'm just a warm body, who knows. I've given up trying to figure it out.

Well, SO ended up taking D3 & D7 to the camper. I ended up going with the baby to my sisters for the night. Today, he got back before me, so took the kids bowling. I like that he's doing these things with the kids; but it upsets me that he would never make time before, as a family unit. Oh that's right - we were never a family, as he says. I feel so excluded - especially when he's taking them to do the things "we" did and like to do.

I also don't like when he forgets he has a 3rd child ~ counting on me to take her so he can have an easier time with the other two. But, I keep it to myself. Rather, I've been trying to encourage his time with the kids; validating his efforts in spending time with them that he does.

He said something on the phone before about the meeting with the landlords tomorrow. I didn't say anything. He asked what was wrong; didn't I want to do this? I said no. He asked why not; I said I was very worried about the money and not having a job yet. He actually didn't yell or anything - that surprised me, that he didn't freak out. Just said he'd take care of the money and we'd talk later when we were both home. Great, something to really look forward to tonight.

SO has betrayed me again. Ysterday, he took the kids bowling. Last thing he says to me (I didn't ask, either and thought this was a non-issue for the time being) - that it was just him & the kids. Well, D3 starts talking about this other "kid" who was there. I asked what? She said Daddy's friend OW (says her name).

I'm spitting nails. What do I do? I thought we were clear that the kids weren't to have anything to do with her for the time being. Now he's gone and done this behind my back - again.

This is such selfishness. I know I most likely don't have any means of stopping him bringing OW around the kids, but, sleeping with me at ngiht, bringing kids around OW - isn't this going to screw with their heads?

NM have you called a lawyer yet?

SO "says" he will not take the girls around OW. But he only says that to placate you. He does what he wants.

SO "says" he will take are of the rent. But, what about when he does not feel like it? or gets mad at you about something?

I am so worried about you moving into a place that you can not afford and then having to rely on the goodness (and saneness) of SO for the roof over your head.

Call a lawyer, get a support order in place, then find a place that you can afford on your own. You can not rely on this man especially in the state (of mind) he is in.

Well, met with the potential landlord. Not sure what to think of it. It didn't go bad or anything, I just couldn't get a read on the lady. Said she'd get an answer to us within a few days.

SO got into it with me about OW being with them yesterday; I said he needed to be up front about things and not sneak around. He still insists there's nothing wrong with urging the kids to keep quiet about those things because "there's nothing going on" and nothing to hide. Yeah, OK.

He also states that I'm being difficult about the whole rental thing. I asked him if it were a smart thing for a person to move into a place they can't pay for and with no job. His answer "Get a job immediately. This is some kind of last desperate attempt for you to hang on to me. I'm tired of doing things for other people. It's time I did things for myself and I'm going to and I don't give a damn what anyone thinks. Why would possibly want to live here when I'm dating someone else and don't want you. How could you want to live under those circumstances?"

So, I'd say that about sums it up. There was some more, I told him I plan on getting the child support paperwork in place. That PO'd him again. Then he started threatening that he'll take ME to court for custody of the kids and he'll win. And that the amount he plans on paying for rent/daycare is more than I'll get in child support.

I'm so tired of this. Everything I do or say is viewed as antagonistic and always comes back to trying to "ruin his happiness with ow". Not that I ever even bring up "us" - he does. As a matter of fact, when he directly asks me things about "us" I do my best to divert the topic.

It just comes down to this. Nothing I do or say, whether nice, polite, validating - no matter what the subject - is taken as anything other than "trying to hold on to him" and he's "not coming back" and this is "his house" and I need to "get out of it and his life" so he can "finally have the happiness he deserves." Yes, they are direct quotes screamed at me after voicing my concerns about no job/no money.

OK, then. I'll go, if the landlord accepts. It won't be available until Oct 1st anyway - that gives me time to secure employment and get the routine going with the kids in school.

I spent the morning calling the custody and support offices; put in calls to some lawyers. And, yes, looks like I'll still have to go through the paternity stuff because I don't have copies of the paperwork from FL for D7. I think what I'll do is wait and find out what's going to happen with the rental 1st. Then file everything after. Anything I do while still living here is only viewed negatively by SO, so I'll just keep it quiet until such time I know what's going with everything.

As for him personally, I told him I wanted him out of the bedroom. Told him he needs to get moved into the other room tomorrow (he's got to work tonight). Sleeping next to him doesn't do me any good. It messes with my mind and I need all the clarity I can get.

Although I do think I'm getting better at detaching. None of the things he said; accusations, even the whole OW thing with the kids - hasn't caused me to be anything other than polite and courteous towards him. I think THAT is pissing him off, that I haven't reamed him out or anything. Merely stated my concerns quietly and respectfully.

Right now I have to worry about the well being of me & the kids. Romeo & Juliet see me as the final roadblock to their happiness. <Insert nasty gagging sound here.

> So, I'll get out of the way of their "happiness". But I'll be damned if the kids & I are going to suffer because he doesn't pay the rent.

Romeo & Juliet see me as the final roadblock to their happiness. <Insert nasty gagging sound here. > So, I'll get out of the way of their "happiness". But I'll be damned if the kids & I are going to suffer because he doesn't pay the rent.

you crack me up! Okay, he's lying cheating and insane. He's not playgni by any any any fair rules. Do not try to reason with him. Do not show him the cards in your hand. He is only looking out for himself. He will manipulate this anyway he can to get the most. I truly believe he's lying about giving you any money at all. Sincerely. Talk to a lawyer before you move out. I think he needs to move out. I think you have a right to that house. You are the one living there with his 3 kids. He has another place.
Why did he come back?
He must have spoken to a lawyer who told him too. Seriousely. He's jsut tricking you. He's such a snake. I can't stand this man. I have no, 000000 that's 00000 respect for him.
He cares only about himself and he is insane.
Please talk to a lawyer, get him out, get as much money as you can and support.

He is so good at lying. He has absolutely no problem doing so. He is only looking out for numero uno.

I can't wait for you to meet someone new. Your life is going to be soooo much better. You're going to look back on him and wonder what you ever saw in him.

Honey, he's fcuking crazy. And I'm so sorry about that. And for your kids. Getting them away from the crazy man in the house will do them a world of good, but please tell me again why you can't go live with your family? Why incur this debt that you cannot pay and surely he will not help with, because he is absolutely batsh!t? Please call in all your favors and get some financial help or stay with relatives for a short period. Get OUT of this man's way while he heads pell-mell into self-distruction.

NM, I typed out a very short post to you after catching up on your sitch yesterday. I deleted it, but I will retype it. Won't take me that long...

FU-K HIM!

There. That about sums it up, and just so you don't misunderstand, that is not advice for you, lol.

Seriously NM, I hate that he's being this way but commend you for taking the high road. Eventually it will pay off for you and your kids that you are not stooping to his level of petty, childish behavior. I know it's hard, but please stay strong and realize that no matter what, you have a place here, and people that really care about you to lean on. Do it whenever necessary.

GH

NM,

PLEASE listen to Ellie and see a lawyer before you move out -- you may be giving up more than you know by moving out.

Now, quit caving into him -- he is toxic right now, just stay away from his bed. And, document the things he is doing. He should not be having the kids lie for him -- this is a no brainer that may be important if custody becomes an issue.

Finally, try to step out of the victim role. YOU betrayed YOURSELF again by sleeping with him when you knew he was confused and not committed to you. It was a risk you took that didn't pay off. That hurts, but it was your choice. It doesn't sound like any more of those risks are worth taking right now. Now is a time to make sure that you and your kids will be OK. He has no interest in doing this. He will try to get away with as little as possible. And, in my experience, he will keep finding ways to reduce this "little" to "less" as time goes on.

I agree with Ellie that he probably moved back in so he could not be accused of abandonment. He is trying to position himself well for court. You should do the same.

Again, DON'T MOVE OUT without talking to a lawyer. If you have no money, contact a women's center, check out the many resources available through google, etc...

Figure out your rights and don't let SO bully you into giving them up.

If he won't move into the other room, you move there. The important thing is to put some distance there, forget about trying to be "the winner" in that battle.

Take care,
Many hugs,
Oldtimer

@ OT.

Nice as always. How are you doing?

GH

Survey says:

WL; BI43; and GH all say FU SO...
Ellie always with wise words to protect one's self...
..and OT comes out of the closet! I mean, nursery.

Thanks all of you for your input and thoughts. It means a lot to me.

Busy day today. D7 - back to school, 3rd grade! Yeah. Even better, D3's 1st day of pre-school. She loved it! And, it's a Christian Academy. I thoroughly expect her to come home one day and point out to her father exactly which commandments he's breaking! LOL

And, I really don't feel like talking about SO today.

Simply cut & paste yesterday's interactions here, as it's pretty much more of the same. Yelling one minute; almost normal the next. Waking me up when he got home last night. Why, you may ask? To tell me how early he got home; then to start asking questions about moving. I feigned deep sleep. That worked.

I didn't really have to deal with him too much today. Had a doctor appt (normal thing, no worries), so I was gone most of the day while he watched D1 and picked up D3 (let him get used to it). He's just left for a meeting with a client and won't be back until 8-9.

Tomorrow, I'll get back on the phone to lawyers as the one's I called yesterday have not called back. None of them. Nice. Legal Aid won't help me - they "don't do Family Court issues" in my county, so they referred me to the Public Defenders office -- who may or may not be able to help, according to their case loads. The system is something, I'll tell you. I feel bad for people who don't have the tenacity (like moi) to get the answers they need.

I will also look into calling the NY hospital (damn - I was THERE today! why didn't I think of it.) - as well as FL for copies of paternity paperwork they may be able to provide me. That will circumvent the tests, and avoid hassles & delays from the child support office. They told me if I could bring them to their office it would make things go quicker. So, I'll see what I can do.

And, no, he didn't do a damned thing about moving into the other bedroom. Worked in his garage instead. I hadn't ever really given it thought to ME moving over there. That would mean moving all the furniture out of the master bedroom. (He had other furniture from the spare room that he taken when he moved out. That's all still downstairs in the basement.) The thing that bothers me is the spare room is clear across the other side of the house, away from the baby's room. Right now, she's directly across the hall from the master bedroom. Yeah - I know what you'll tell me. Buy another baby monitor.

As for documenting things; well, I have here as a journal. I also FWD all the emails/texts he sends me to another email account I set up for that purpose. Started that at least 1.5 years ago.

All in all, I actually feel good. Probably has a lot to do with the kids being back at school! Job prospects are looking good, too. Calls to make tomorrow on them, as well.

And, SO has his dental procedure tomorrow. That means he'll only have vicodin for a few more days. Wonder what the withdrawal from that is going to be like.

Did the lawyers ever get back to you yet?

Hope your doing okay.

Well, I got the rental.

NM,

What state do you live in? Do you know your right with respect to your current abode/support/etc...?

Oldtimer

New York - I'm still working on getting all that info.

Nothing's been signed yet or anything, we have to meet on the 20th to do all the rental paperwork, etc. He is going to be listed as the Guarantor on the lease, meaning he's responsible for payment, with me being listed as the tenant.

I know this is probably for the best, yet, it still stings. And I feel as though *I* didn't do enough and somehow failed my kids.

Dear Lord woman, the man is a FRUIT LOOP. How can you make something work with a moving target? YOU didn't fail anything. He is FUBAR (f'ed up beyond all recognition). Get OUT, but get all your legal ducks in a row FIRST.
{{NM}}

I needed that. Thanks, BI.

I can see it now, I'll be cruisin' through the cereal aisle tomorrow morning and I am gonna bust out laughing when I see Toucan Sam.

Thank your lucky charms that you are a strong woman. You DIDN'T fail your kids. You DID do all you could, and are still doing all you can but at some point that means you have to look out for you first. Do that and maybe then you can take one more look at Count A$$ula in the rear-view mirror.

GH