Divorcebusting.com
Posted By: lodo Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/11/07 06:29 PM
Hi all,
Have been finding it very helpful to read these boards and wanted to post my own dilemma. We've been together 12 years, M 5. Bomb dropped near the end of Oct - ILYBNILWY. W moved out immediately because she was extremely stressed from work & graduate school and didn't want to work on or think about a problem relationship. She agreed to MC, though.

Since then, we've had productive MC sessions, set goals, and she has followed up on action items, like asking me to do something and initiating a hug. I've been GALing and doing 180s and she has noticed. But now we're in a limbo period. She says she keeps thinking and saying to herself that she just wants to be alone, but she has put her wedding ring back on and we've had some really good, relaxed (and non-R-discussing) evenings. She also has admitted (in round-about fashion) that she still senses the deep connection we share. But she doesn't want to think about it.

So what do you do in these in-between periods? Last night she stopped by to get some clothes and we talked in relaxed but circular fashion until she said "We have a lot of things to work out, but we have time." She still hasn't committed to working on the R (though she obviously is by going to MC), so don't know how I should take this. I'm now trying to pull back and give time and space, but it's hard when our conversations are always in my head. I guess I feel like we've started piecing, but not really. Any advice to someone trying to maintain hope?
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/12/07 01:35 AM
Hi lodo, welcome to Hopefulness!
Quote:
she said "We have a lot of things to work out, but we have time."
Do you know what things she is thinking about? Other than her stress at the time think about her reasons for leaving you and her home. It sounds like she was pretty busy with things, were you able to help and support to take some of the pressure off of her?

Try and be a friend even while you are doing 180's and GAL. See if you can give her enough space to see if she will miss you and let her come to you.
Good luck!
Posted By: sgctxok Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/12/07 03:15 AM
Watch her actions. Following through with counselling and action items speaks volumes of her love for you.

I really encourage you to get the KLA tape/CD series because it will encourage you to focus on t he positives.

Because WHAT YOU FOCUS ON EXPANDS.

Please feel free to join us in the KLA forum with or without the tapes.

It will keep you solution-focused.

Keep up the good work.

In the meantime, the in-between times...build your life...have fun...enjoy it. Life is short. But life is GREAT.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/12/07 04:33 AM
Originally Posted By: WCW
Hi lodo, welcome to Hopefulness!

Thanks WCW - I hope this is really where I should be posting \:\)

Quote:
she said "We have a lot of things to work out, but we have time." Do you know what things she is thinking about?
I don't know if she intended that to mean that we had to sort out living arrangements (right now she's at her aunt's, but we've talked about renting a place for her) or our relationship. She's very approachable until it comes to the R and then she puts up a wall, though will talk about it in MC and has been willing to do things suggested in MC. We both are pursuing grad degrees on top of full-time jobs and our M has been nothing more than roommates for awhile as a result. Since the bomb, I can feel myself GAL daily (though I've had big slips), but she doesn't see that.

I'm trying to be a friend, but it's hard to balance being a friend with giving space and focusing on myself. Still new to this and can't figure out where her boundaries are. Guess I need to be more patient!
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/12/07 04:40 AM
Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Watch her actions. Following through with counselling and action items speaks volumes of her love for you.

Thanks for the support sgctxok. Do you really think this is love? Because of the quick separation and her unwillingness to talk, I felt like this was just a way for her to part without feeling guilty. I guess I should give her more credit, but the last few months have been so painful.

Quote:
I really encourage you to get the KLA tape/CD series because it will encourage you to focus on t he positives.

I'll check them out - I have gone through DR several times now.

Quote:
In the meantime, the in-between times...build your life...have fun...enjoy it. Life is short. But life is GREAT.

Thanks - I'm trying! Some days are easier than others and I've had a really hard time meeting friends where we currently live. I appreciate the postings and support on the board.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/15/07 02:09 AM
This is hard. More encounters this week and more of a roller coaster ride between extremely positive conversations and then sudden pull-back.

I've left the house for a long weekend so she can be there, but was feeling extremely low and wondering if the relationship was even worth pursuing. After all, it's been 2 months and even though we connect really well, she gives so little in return. Keep re-reading the boards, though, and need to remember to stay positive. Went for a long run and felt much better.

Maybe part of it is the time of the year. Everywhere I go, everyone seems so happy and I feel so outside all of that. And it gets dark so early.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/17/07 05:48 AM
Man, maybe hopeful was the wrong place to post. Talked to W tonight. Good conversation, relaxed. I asked if we could talk about R and she agreed - was very forthcoming. I told her what I appreciated so far and what I hoped we could work on in the future. She responded to most stuff, but ended by saying that she just wanted to be alone, she didn't want to think about the R, and she didn't feel like working on R but she thought things were comfortable between us and didn't feel bad about being around me. I tried to stay confident and positive, said that her willingness to participate in MC and to do action items spoke loudly to me that she still cared and I realized it would take time. I also said I needed to show her a supportive side to our relationship so that she had somewhere to turn besides herself. The thing is, she has this great ability to just completely shut down her emotional side and concentrate only on herself and her rational side, so this could go on for months and months.

Also found out that she is planning a dinner party at our house for a bunch of our friends tomorrow. That sucks. I guess I don't really care who knows and who doesn't, but a party? And this after she made a big deal about who we tell?
Posted By: sgctxok Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/17/07 08:02 AM
Iodo-

Don't get discouraged. Spouses often feel put on the spot when the R is b rought up and focus on the negative.


"The thing is, she has this great ability to just completely shut down her emotional side and concentrate only on herself and her rational side, so this could go on for months and months."

And so you have information now that a Relationship Talk is not a good idea for the both of you. It actually isn't how relationships are built anyway. Just build the actions, build the friendship.




Stay the course, keep b elieving, stay focused, on the high road.
Posted By: GFI Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/17/07 10:17 AM
Hi Iodo-

Even without the great advice in DR/DB and from fellow DBers I found pretty early on post-bamb that R talks were pretty fruitless and if anything usually resulted in very negative outcome. They could send me heading down, down, down for days on end.

When I switched onto this fact I found that what benefited me and hopefully W most at that stage and still is, was giving space for us both to just "be" and get on with normal stuff. For me this was done in a heightened, more self aware way. At first it felt like every move and word could be analysed and judged but even so it was better than the big events R talks had become. It also gave me an opportunity to try tweaking my life and actions / reactions and get my analytic head on - seeing what worked / works and what doesn't without too much being invested in any one single action. When you enter a R talk there is so much riding on it, one false move can put you in Check and then it can be a job to recover.

For me this approach has given me the opportunity to shine a selective spotlight on GFI the guy, the wonderful guy I can be and am becoming, to work on the back-story and get it developed and honed into something that is as irresistable as possible.

I think this is same tack as mentioned above. R talks are pursuing and everyone here will advise laying off them, despite evry sinew in you wanting to brings your R up at every opportunity you can in order to penetrate S's shell.

Best - GFI
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/17/07 02:11 PM
Thanks guys -

I knew I shouldn't bring R up after all the reading I've done, but she seemed willing to discuss and had acted very positively around me lately. Learned that lesson the hard way. Not that it was all bad - it was a pretty good conversation I guess. I just don't understand how she can completely shut down her emotional side. She is the first to admit this.

Friendship, right. Guess I better start divvying up my goals into smaller baby steps.

thanks for the support! Lodo
Posted By: sgctxok Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/17/07 08:40 PM
Ok this one's free. Next time I'll smack you. \:D
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/18/07 05:04 AM
Originally Posted By: sgctxok
Ok this one's free. Next time I'll smack you. \:D


I consider myself smacked \:\)
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/20/07 02:24 PM
Whoa.

Intense, unintended conversation the other night. We were supposed to have dinner and I kept things calm and friendly but W started crying and talking about R - said we can't stay in limbo. We talked about a lot of things, but I stayed consistent in my message that the only thing I felt I could do right now was work on myself and our friendship. I said eventually I'd have to move on, which meant selling the house, but I wanted to remain friends.

Walked outside and I held her hand on the way back to her car. She completely broke down and spent the next hour sobbing on my shoulder. Said she felt she had a problem with deep emotional attachments. Said she wanted to come home but just couldn't - couldn't figure out what she was scared of. Said she just couldn't make the next step. I should have told her that I thought the next step would be spending the day together rather than moving in, but didn't. She said she knew we had a connection that was unique and felt that if she couldn't make our R work, she wouldn't be able to make any work. I just held her, answered her questions, but tried not to say everything I was feeling. Eventually I told her it was time for her to go home. Walked her to the car where she cried more. I kissed her goodnight and left.

Now am trying to sort it all out. I feel like we have definitely turned some sort of corner, but don't know what's next.
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/20/07 03:55 PM
It seems like she was feeling a lot of uncertainty and very emotional about it. Stay steady and be her support and probably expect some withdrawal from her now too. It's not you, it's a pattern for many WAS. They get too close to be comfortable and then swing far away again.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/21/07 02:39 AM
Hi WCW,

Good advice that I'll follow. I felt good that I was able to not completely let myself go during our conversation. Just trying to focus on myself and being a good friend. But 4 emails from W today - not about anything in particular, but quite a difference after the last 2 months.

I can definitely feel myself really shedding some illusions about how Rs work. Still a long road ahead. lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/21/07 04:38 PM
As expected, W is pulling way back. Brief conversation yesterday before she leaves for the holidays. Conversation was okay and relaxed, but reserved. Hug goodbye that she pulled out of and then stood with arms behind back. So, I wished her a good christmas and got out. Pretty depressed once home, but am just going to accept it as a low spot in what has been overall improvement. I guess I'll pull back again and let her choose when to approach.

Played hookey yesterday, taking the afternoon off and going for a long hike. Felt good to not be so consumed with work. I realize that the small improvements have allowed me to not be so consumed with thinking about the R - have cleared my head out a little.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/26/07 05:18 PM
Hi everyone,

Hope your holiday was a good one. I went to see my family - little quiet this year but still enjoyed the visit.

No contact from W. Thought she'd call to wish me a happy holiday, but nothing. Trying not to think about it. We'd left things a couple weeks ago with her initiating contact, so I'm trying to hold true to that. As Michele says, I'm trying to stay back so that W can fill the space. Pretty hard, though, after what I thought was a corner turned.

Too cold to run so am feeling a bit trapped as well. Isn't it strange how exercise can suddenly become so important to your peace of mind? Ever since bomb, it seems like getting out is the only thing that can settle me down.

Have a safe and happy new year! lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/27/07 08:35 PM
Okay, just plodding along here. Man, I look at all the great advice other people are able to give and I wonder if I'll ever be able to think that clearly about myself in a R again, but I'm trying. PMA (finally figured out what that meant).

Latest is W stayed in the house while I was away. She finally called the day after christmas to wish me a happy holiday - better than nothing. I was getting back pretty early in the AM and asked if she'd be at the house - long silence and then, "no." I asked if she was still willing to do an all day hike, per our last MC session and she said yes. Conversation seemed stilted though.

So, got home and she'd left a note. About a month ago I'd planned a ski trip by myself as part of my GAL. I asked if she'd want to join me for a day (no hotel room pressure) but she said NO. Anyway, in the note she left she said it was supposed to rain all weekend and how about if we went to dinner instead of a hike and then she could join me for a day of skiing.

So, feeling pretty good. Bad part is that the all day hike was supposed to be a chance for us to really have some time together to talk. Can't do that skiing, but I'll take whatever time I can get.

Been thinking about something Jeff223 wrote in another forum about recapturing and balancing your good male energy - planning, follow-through, leadership, creativity, mentoring, as well as compassion and sharing, etc. I'm trying to think about that - I've definitely been lacking in male energy with my tendency to want to be clingy, though I've fought that tendency hard.

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/27/07 09:04 PM
lodo, you might try creating some mystery. Change your cologne, get a new hairstyle, grow a mustache. Don't always be available to her if she contacts you. Ask her to watch the house again while you have an 'out of town' trip, don't tell her any details.
Can you do that? It is hard, it is totally against anything I ever tried to build with my H - an open and honest R with him. He changed the rules.
I think the thing that made him flip out the most in this many years is the day I loaded up 2 horses and left to go camping by myself. I left him a voice mail after I was on the road. That started a flurry of txts from him and he was ANGRY so I did get his attention.
What can you do for some 180's and changes?
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/28/07 01:17 AM
Mystery, huh? I don't know but I can try. I feel more like telling her I need a break from her mood swings than asking her to watch the house, but maybe I'll give it a shot. Guess I've been thinking of 180s more as fixing things rather than anything more dramatic.

Wish I had a horse to take out - I'm a southwesterner transplanted to the city. Heck, I'd be happy just to see some good stars again!
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/29/07 03:01 PM
Just journaling. Movie and dinner with W last night. Movie had one scene with a discussion of whether people can stay together and be happy - that was a little uncomfortable.

Afterwards, had our usual relaxed conversation. W has taken off her wedding ring again and seemed very removed, even though we were happily talking away and laughing. She told me she's swamped herself with work through April, which means little time for anything else. I guess any sort of movement in R, positive or negative, is going to be a long time coming.

Best I could do on creating mystery was to tell her I'm going to Mexico (no details) and that I'm selling the truck. She seemed a little surprised with the truck, which is funny since I never drive it. It was our vehicle for camping and for her to use in her work. We mainly drove the car her parents gave her.

At end of evening I said thanks for dinner and turned quickly to go. I noticed she hesitated and looked at me a moment like she expected a hug, which I've usually been doing but decided not to since last time she pulled away.

Feeling not so hopeful today. She is supposed to join me skiing on tuesday, but already started putting down a lot of caveats about needing to leave early so she can work. I feel like telling her that the trip was meant for me to have fun and if she wants to join me, great, but if she needs to work, she shouldn't come. Or I can just ignore it and try to have fun as a friend. I'm also thinking about telling her, before she leaves to drive back home, that I am done feeling stuck in trying to relate to her and don't know if I want to keep trying - give her something to think about on the way back. Problem is that she has always needed a shock to make an emotional decision, but I don't want to have to do that because I don't know what her response might be.

lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/30/07 09:22 PM
Well, not sure how to feel. After W stayed at the house while I was gone, I went to wash the sheets and found stains on her side of the bed that, well, left me feeling pretty sure she'd slept with someone.

I didn't want to jump to conclusions, so called. She vehemently denied that she'd sleep with anyone in our bed, and then quickly got off phone. I don't know what to believe - guess I can't do anything but assume she's being honest. I don't have any other reason to doubt her. At this point, it probably doesn't matter anyway if she's sleeping with someone else and I shouldn't have called - especially since the distance thing was at least making things better between us. Now I feel like I'm back at square one.

bummed, lodo
Posted By: GFI Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/30/07 10:06 PM
Hi Lodo

You're way off Square 1 i think! Maybe a little backslide there but not as dramatic as it feels. IMO you can and need to regroup and get a grip on your GAL activities and PMA again - go with the creating a bit of mystery as suggested above. You're right - you can do nothing other than assume she's being truthful - save for finding some incriminating evidence - and I guess you've looked and there isn't. So, how would it play out if you said sorry for jumping to conclusions then back-off quick and calm down - you were doing great and I reckon you can recover your position.

Oh, and get yourself signed up for your first tri - I'd suggest giving yourself approx 6 week lead-in if you can find one reasonably close - that should give you enough time to get your training schedule sorted but close enough for you to have it in your sights!

Best - GFI
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/31/07 12:31 AM
Hey GFI,

Thanks - just feeling tired right now. I do okay with GAL and PMA but whenever I see W it feels like such a dance that I end up analyzing again. I think I need to remember how it was when we first got together and I just accepted her more.

Found a couple of tris in March so am going to aim for one of those. Thanks for the encouragement!
Posted By: GFI Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/31/07 01:24 PM
Hi Lodo

Perhaps look at your sitch like a metaphorical dance - you're usually tempted to join in, but you don't quite know the right moves for this one so best to keep out of it, dancing your own dance if you will - through your GAL activities and rising PMA. Detaching is hard - really hard - I can appreciate that through my sitch but once you can keep your focus on your path, and this is not to take an approach to life that is selfish or disrespecting of your W - just a focus on recreating the kind of guy you were or would like to be, then the potholes in the road are easier to dance around.

What you want to do is make your dance look appealing enough for W to be tempted to take a closer look at your moves!

Check out: http://www.tritalk.co.uk/training/articles.php

Best - GFI
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/31/07 02:57 PM
lodo, a good practice when something bad happens is to give it the 24 hour rule. Don't react for at least 24 hours, and then see if you feel the same.

Have you read DR? I loaned it from the library, I should get my own copy for handy reference. I sure do need it!

Anytime you want to take a horse you be sure and ask me. I can provide!

I was wondering too which one of you guys posed for pic on that tri site. ;\)
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 12/31/07 07:08 PM
Hi guys,

Thanks for the input. Guess I better learn some new dance steps! Thanks for the link GFI. I'm heading up to the Sierra tomorrow for skate skiing (can't wait), but next week will figure out a workout.

WCW, I've read DR 2x now but still am having to think through the advice. Easy in theory, hard in practice. Time is on my side, though. I emailed W and apologized if I came across as accusatory for thinking she may be in PA, but explained I needed to make sure we were being honest with each other. She responded well, though has maintained her distant tone that she's had since the major meltdown before christmas.

The lean, rugged-good-looks guy on the tri site is me - how'd you guess? ;\)
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/01/08 01:31 AM
Okay - things happened faster than I thought they would. First, thanks everyone for advice. It works! Granted, my W and I are still taking baby steps, but the positives sure feel good after the distances.

So, W had agreed to come skiing for a day and needed to come get her stuff - we're driving separately. I was cleaning the garage when she got here - we chatted, then she went in to get her stuff. I kept working and she stayed inside a LONG time. Finally I went in and she was puttering. Said the house looked really nice, noticed I'd gotten fresh flowers (not a usual guy thing, I know, but they're cheery and I knew she was coming over), and said everything felt bright and sunny. I said the day was beautiful so why not sit outside for a little bit. She agreed.

Well, we talked about a lot of stuff and a lot of experiences we have shared came up. I tried to just talk about them briefly and move on. Told her I was going to Mexico and could she stay at the house and watch the cats (mystery!). I finally said I should get some other things done and stood. She grabbed my hand and held on to it until I sat again. We just sat together in the dying light. I started to crack jokes like I used to and she smiled. Then she said she was sorry for being distant. I told her I knew she was busy. She said she felt like she was just spinning her wheels. I told her she'd hit her stride again.

I stood again and stuck my hands in my pockets - didn't want to be hurt again by her pulling back from a hug. She looked at me a moment and then hugged me! I walked with her out to the car and we started talking about what to do with the yard/garden (!). Finally said goodbye and walked back in. She stayed in the driveway a long time before leaving.

So, I think I'm finally starting to get it. PMA, GAL, mystery, patience, consistency, offering her things that let her choose to have fun together, finding the line between taking care of myself, being distant, and being a friend. Time is definitely on my side - and tomorrow we head up for what promises to be a great ski day! She even told me how much she was looking forward to it and I feel like she wishes she had agreed to stay longer. I know I'm getting excited about small steps, but hey - they feel really good.

lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/02/08 04:49 AM
Just updating. Things didn't end up quite as positive as I'd hoped, but they weren't bad. W very distant, but I was afraid she wouldn't show up at all. I acted as if and after a very long time she relaxed. Had great fun skate skiing, but she's much better than me. I figured, hey, friends don't care about who is better, so I didn't apologize for her having to wait for me. Best part was that most of the time she was smiling when I caught up to her.

Conversations were okay - not the best we've ever had, but they're all tending towards shared memories now, which surprises me. She is still behind a wall though. Guess it's a fear thing - she recognizes my changes but doesn't want to really accept them. She really started snapping at some little things, like "do you want an apple?" but I just ignored.

I was hoping she'd come back to my lodge, take a shower, and have a relaxing dinner before heading back, but she wouldn't. Oh well. I think the most important thing is that she chose to drive up here even when she has a lot of work to do (work is her choice - she's snowed herself under). I guess that's because I had a definite plan and let her choose to join or not.

No plans for the future - no dinners, no MC, nothing. Don't know what happens next but I'm going to let her choose. In the meantime, I'll plan my own activities. lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/04/08 02:44 PM
Got home yesterday. Have pretty much decided to pull way back.

Email from W informing me of something she thought I'd be interested in. Later, a phone call just to ask how the rest of my skiing went - that surprised me. Conversation was okay, I was cheerful and she seemed tired but okay. From caller id I noticed she was still at work. After we hung up, I called back, letting her know that I had to drive some stuff into work and could bring her some dinner if she hadn't eaten. She got really annoyed and short with me, so hung up, feeling like I'd made a big mistake in calling.

Thought about it afterwards. Just like the annoyance at being offered a snack for the road, she seems to get angry whenever I do favors or try to do nice things for her. Maybe she feels this intrudes on her independence - she's always been very independent. Maybe she thinks I'm going out of my way to do things, even though I'm not, and it annoys her that I'd do that. In any case, guess I need to stop offering to do anything for her unless she asks me something specific.

But realistically, things have softened between us and I need to concentrate on those positives. I just feel concerned that it also feels like any romance is fading too. When we hugged during the initial S, it felt electric. Now it just feels wooden, and even though she's been initiating, last time we hugged she put a hand up to keep me from getting too close. Guess that's better than pulling away.

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 02:04 AM
What kind of skiing are you doing? I downhill but am not very good, my knees get so tight that I can't flex and bend and then I wipe out when I hit icy patches. Not pretty!
I've skied behind a horse too, and a snowmobile. That is not easy!

Hugs are my soft spot. I love to be hugged and hug back. As hard as it may be for you, next time she initiates a hug do a 180 and make it real quick or just touch her shoulder when you part. In other words, do something that will make a lasting effect on her as she is doing to you.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 03:07 AM
Hey WCW,

I was skate skiing - great fun, but it kicks your butt. I also cross country and snowboard. I have a snowboard that breaks down into tele skis so I can go backcountry. I've always lived in the middle of nowhere, so going to a resort for downhill wasn't a convenient option.

Got back from the Sierras just as they were getting walloped - man it can snow up there! They're supposed to get another 10 feet tonight.

Yep, you're right. I should do a 180 with hugs. In some ways, though, I feel like these 180s are shutting down the only places where W and I connect emotionally. Yet she seems to be softening (though swinging back and forth) so I guess they're effective. Part of our problem is that I wasn't showing her enough, i.e. any, attention, so it just feels wrong to show her LESS attention right now. Same with contact - I feel like I should be making an effort to contact her rather than pulling back. But, I'll see what happens and judge whether it's effective or not. Have I mentioned that I had no idea this could be so hard before?

lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 03:09 AM
Forgot to mention - I've skied behind a horse too! We called it joring. I've also gone snowboarding behind a snowmobile which is tremendous fun - try it!
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 03:52 AM
I didn't think anyone here would know what joring was so I didn't use the technical term. I haven't tried snowboarding, it's crazy enough to tie two boards to your feet and slide down a hill but it seems even worse to tie your feet to one board. Skate skiing looks so elegant and graceful.

I know what you mean about not wanting now the exact thing they say they never got and now they don't want it and we want to give it. How ironic!

Do you have any GAL things to keep you busy and interesting that does not include your W? One of the things for me more recently is watching so much stinkin news I even see the repeats. It does give me more topics of interest to talk to H about other than just horses and house stuff. It might be working too, H saddled my horse for me one night and gave me tips while I rode. See? he'll go to extremes to keep me from yackin at him! ;\)

If you live in the middle of nowhere too we must be neighbors!
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 04:40 AM
Originally Posted By: WCW
I didn't think anyone here would know what joring was so

Well, I'm guessing you're a westerner. Let me ask you this, how many cows have you hit? I've launched 3 - one landed in the bed of my truck.

Quote:
Do you have any GAL things to keep you busy and interesting that does not include your W?

yep - just not enough friends to do stuff with. I'm a country boy who's ended up in the city and all anyone does around here is work. That's okay - I have my fiddle.

Quote:
One of the things for me more recently is watching so much stinkin news I even see the repeats.

So I guess who said what to who in the latest debate/primary/caucus is a big topic of conversation in your household?

Quote:
H saddled my horse for me one night and gave me tips while I rode.

Wow-quite the gentleman! Question is, would he pack your mules?

Quote:
If you live in the middle of nowhere too we must be neighbors!

Alas, not any more. I'm in the big city trying to make a living. Where I used to live, though, was named the darkest place in America! I do miss seeing stars.

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 02:44 PM
LOL. Westerner on the inside but planted in the midwest. I'd be labeled more of the midwest farmers daughter. No free range here so I've been lucky not to hit any cows. My cows would fair well on free range though 'cause they sure aren't fence friendly.
Quote:
I'm a country boy who's ended up in the city and all anyone does around here is work. That's okay - I have my fiddle.
Now wait a minute. You're saying that city folk work all the time? WORK? or stay busy? I feel like all I do is work because I have a town job all day and then come home to work all night at home with livestock, horses, fences, repair and maintenance, etc.... But it is my choice, and it is also cash flow too, flows in one hand and out the other! It is also a lot of my GAL with folks coming for lessons and looking for help to better their horsemanship.
Do you really have a fiddle or are you hosing me? Go do something with that fiddle! Play in the park and you'll draw a crowd, find a fiddling group to join.
Quote:
So I guess who said what to who in the latest debate/primary/caucus is a big topic of conversation in your household?
I can keep up pretty good but I get tired of the same old same old. Even if the best candidate get elected it's still that one person can't change the country. I watched football last night. \:\)
Quote:
Question is, would he pack your mules?
EXCUSE ME?? that's a pretty personal question! he hasn't lately but I wish he would!! LOL. Ok, seriously, he could and would use his experience from when he was a guide in remote mountain terrain. The real issue is whether I could get him on the same trip with me! He's been softening some but it's still all about him. To set the record straight, he rarely saddles my horse but did that time due to my 'restrictions' yet. I don't want to be labeled a total wuss!

Darkest place in America? Nevada?

What about your W? is she a county girl too? are you blending lifestyles and cultures?
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/06/08 09:39 PM
Originally Posted By: WCW
You're saying that city folk work all the time? WORK? or stay busy? I feel like all I do is work because I have a town job all day and then come home to work all night at home

LOL - okay, work in an office. Where I used to live everyone had 3 jobs but they still made time for friends. Where I'm at now it just seems like people will only make time for work.

Quote:
Go do something with that fiddle! Play in the park and you'll draw a crowd

You bet I'll draw a crowd - along with the police to arrest me for disturbing the peace! At my skill level, I'm better off practicing inside.
Quote:
He's been softening some but it's still all about him.

Same with my W (who is a country girl but both of us blend in well in the city). At least I thought she was softening - looks like we've started down another stretch of no contact. I'd been planning to do that anyway, but hate it. lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/09/08 06:32 AM
Big change tonight.

It feels pretty darn negative, but maybe not. W contacted me - we had agreed we didn't like MC before xmas. I hadn't brought it up since. She asked if I'd like to join her for dinner tonight and also asked what I thought about MC. Said she'd go if I wanted to continue going, and that she was going to IC next week.

We met for dinner - small talk. She was clearly avoiding bringing it up. I finally asked her to walk around. Started to hold her hand and she snatched it away. Back to small talk and I finally got her to sit down for a minute. She said she just felt trapped whenever she thought about coming home. I said I understood. She said she didn't know what she wanted. I said I was confused too. She said we could still be friends and do stuff together. I agreed.

Finally I said, why don't we stop seeing each other for awhile. She got teary and said she was impossible. I told her she wasn't - she should do what she wanted to be happy and I was doing the same. I held her hand and she let me. I said if she wanted to continue counseling we could go to someone else, otherwise it might be best if we just not see each other, but it was her decision. Then I stood and said I needed to go. She stood and I hugged her and then kissed her. She let me. I turned to walk away and she said she'd let me know her decision after meeting with IC.

So. Not what I wanted to do, say, or hear after what I thought was a LOT of small positive steps. Yet this is really that letting go step and part of me says this is a good thing.

I don't know. PMA. lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 01/16/08 02:11 AM
Well, goodbye to all my friends in hopefulness. I'm posting over in Infidelity now. Guess what I found out today.

separated and sad, lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 07/15/08 03:39 AM
Hey lodo, I dug this up for you. Don't leave loose threads or anything dangling. ;\)

In all seriousness, I moved to this forum for myself. I wanted to be positive about finding hopefulness for my life and where I wanted to go with me. It's been MY journey of baby steps to move forward and put my life on the track I desired.
Posted By: lodo The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 03:42 AM
LOL - you beat me to it! I was wondering if you'd do it or not.

I knew you would, you damn cowgirl!

If I remember correctly, it was your hopefulness that first inspired me to post. And then you were the first to post on my thread. As luck would have it, I only got 4 pages into it before I moved to infidelity - ah what a naive fool I was. Live and learn.

How was the horsey weekend?

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 03:52 AM
I've got no shame or pride, I just keep hogging threads started by someone else. I don't think I've started my own thread yet this year!!

The weekend...well, most of it I will have to say in private because I don't want a slander suit started against me for saying what I think about this particular clinician.

On the other hand, there were a lot of positives including H. It was nice waking up with him 2 mornings in a row. Then my little helper friend went back home so the couch was available for H again. ggrrrr. Little helper friend even commented how hard H works and he stays up so late and gets up so early. I didn't burst any bubbles.

Ok, so is your other thread locked yet?
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 03:55 AM
Nope - thread isn't locked yet. But I'm thinking after it locks I might take a break for awhile.

Sometimes you spend so much time concentrating on yourself that you lose focus with your life. I think I'm there. I love everyone here but the relentless march of pain gets to me. I need to be out in the sun again. But you know how to find me.

lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 03:56 AM
BTW - this looks like it might become the top secret WCW thread!
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 04:11 AM
Hey, knock off the drama stuff like 'the march of pain'. Do you serve whine with that? I'll have to come whack you with a hammer from my new tool belt and then sit on your patio waiting for you to recover.

I know it hurts, I know it isn't easy, but find some rays and get reenergized. You'll need it for Scotland.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 05:08 AM
Don't whack me with a hammer! Just let me stay between your safety cones! LOL \:D

I'm fine, just tend to get caught up in the daily drama. Don't have many other distractions right now, so ....

So, tell me a story that has meaning to you.

lodo
Posted By: NNP1965 Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 10:50 AM
OMG this thread is 4 pages long and I had no idea it was here!

I will be reading for a bit to catch up and then I'll be back.
Posted By: NNP1965 Re: The NEW WCW thread - 07/15/08 11:37 AM
okay well now I get it... way to fly under the radar. This will be like a treasure hunt to find your threads :-)
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/15/08 12:44 PM
A good treasure hunt is always fun! I remember H and I went on a treasure hunt on horseback, it was a competition and we were a team. Ah yes, the good old days....
Funny memory from that ride, another couple went with us that day. I think they each had affairs, started the D, the lady ended up pregnant from her lover and moved her and the other 2 kids in with him, that didn't work out so good for her, she lost her house and her business. She finally got her life together and is now recently remarried and her new H bought her a horse. She keeps it by me and comes out to ride, and just the last few weeks her H has been borrowing my BIG gentle giant horse and they ride together. Sweet.

lodo, was that a good enough story? are you going to lock up this thread or do I have to do it for you? I suppose I should be a big girl and start my own again. Should I stay here or move to MLC? Decisions, decisions, tapping fingers....
Posted By: NNP1965 Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/15/08 12:48 PM
I vote stay here. Hopefulness is a good home for us.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/15/08 01:17 PM
Originally Posted By: WCW
are you going to lock up this thread or do I have to do it for you? I suppose I should be a big girl and start my own again. Should I stay here or move to MLC? Decisions, decisions, tapping fingers....

Well, I have no reason to own a thread in Hopefulness, so if you want to see this old thing locked you'll have to take it over for yourself. After you're through with this one, you can lock up my old thread in Piecing - only got 8 pages into that one.

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/15/08 02:15 PM
Well, your other thread just locked up.
Quote:
I have no reason to own a thread in Hopefulness
Ok Eyore, whatever you say. You're not hopeful about anything?

NNP, I agree, this is a good home. I wonder though if another forum would generate more input and if that would be good for my sitch. Seems like no matter what it's all about H and his schedule and his time.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/16/08 03:13 AM
Hey WCW - how'd the haying go?
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/16/08 05:14 AM
Done for the night. H even showed up by 9pm and came to help but I had it covered, so he went to the indoor arena to ride a couple colts.

H didn't know hay was coming tonight, my phone buttons froze up again so I couldn't let him know. That means he showed up all on his own at home earlier than usual. It's REALLY nice to see him riding and showing interest again.

I went to watch and finish up chores and H told me about a phone call he got today from a friend we showed with A LOT a few years ago. The guy told H that he was inspired by having to be so good to show against H and try to beat him that it was the catalyst to get better. Now this friend and his daughter are going to World shows and winning! isn't that ohso cool?? H was very flattered.

A cold shower sure felt good tonight before crawling into bed. Now I have wet hair, an ice pack on my sore foot, and the fan blowing. Do ya think I'll end up sick?
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 12:54 AM
so did you get sick?
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 03:04 AM
Sure did! sick enough to hallucinate that H will love me again the way I want and need to be loved!

How do I adjust the brakes on my bike? the front brakes work real good and the back brakes hardly grab at all.

No tornadoes here today but strong straight line winds and lots of rain again. I lost part of my wood rail fence and part of the hickory tree, and stuff scattered everywhere. Sure am getting tired of this stuff.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 03:28 AM
take it to someone to adjust the brakes. It'll be a whole lot easier.

otherwise, you just twiddle the little screws.

No tornadoes?! Jesus - i forgot what the midwest is like!
Posted By: smartcookie Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 04:17 AM
lodo, so this is where you hide now ? \:\)
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 04:25 AM
hi SC - no, i'm over in surviving. This was my first thread, but I was only 4 pages in when I found out about OM and abandoned this thread to move over to infidelity.

but my pal WCW needed a thread to crash on - kind of like sleeping on the couch instead of getting into bed and making passionate love with your W - so she revived the thread and is posting here.

how are you sweet cookie? lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 01:51 PM
Take it somewhere? come on buddy, I'm a doityourselfer. I'll end up paying more to have someone adjust them than I paid for the bike!

For the record - I am helping my friend lodo lock up this old thread to help him get some closure in his life. He's got threads and participles hanging loose all over these forums. ;\)

I really should start my own thread but I'm tired and busy but mostly I don't want to jinx myself and post too much about how good I feel lately. I know...cowgirl up!!
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 02:46 PM
Well, in that case just do a google search for "adjusting bicycle brakes" - you'll need to find instructions for your specific type of brakes but there are a ton of websites and videos out there.

yeah, i'm DAM - leaving my threads dangling.

Hey, we want to hear about how good you feel!

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/17/08 02:58 PM
Originally Posted By: lodo
Well, in that case just do a google search for "adjusting bicycle brakes" - you'll need to find instructions for your specific type of brakes but there are a ton of websites and videos out there.
lodo
I did a google search and it came up with Ask Lodo.

I am so good.... \:D \:\) but when I am bad I am better!!!
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/20/08 04:55 AM
Hey WCW - where the hell are you?! You didn't wreck your bike because your brakes were adjusted wrong, did you?

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/20/08 01:09 PM
Yup, that's what happened! I went to AskLodo.com and I couldn't figure out how to get the adjustment quite right and I ended up hitting a cow that wouldn't stay in the fence I've been fixing all summer and now I am black and white and read all over just like a newspaper! (that's a joke, BTW)

The other thing is I've been having phone trouble so I get all screwed up and can't post. What does my phone and posting have to do with each other? absolutely nothing! it's just a poor excuse!

Mostly I have lot's to say that has not much to do with DB or H or R or M so I am not sure where to say it! It's just feeling pretty fine and doing GAL stuff and enjoying the things I love to enjoy - minus the bad cows escaping and the negatives I ignore about H. I'm sure some day soon I'll explode it all over on one of these forums.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 12:07 AM
Originally Posted By: WCW
Mostly I have lot's to say that has not much to do with DB or H or R or M so I am not sure where to say it!

That hasn't stopped the rest of us. Or are you worried about your DB legacy and don't want to dirty up your threads with rambling?

Bad cows? Are those the ones in leather jackets who hang out in the corner of the pasture and smoke?
Posted By: Sara Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 04:29 AM
OK, I think I am set on the menu for book club. It will be fruit cobbler, based on what looks good at the store, bread pudding with a whiskey sauce, and baked apples. And I will have the can of whipped cream available for the cobbler, the apples, the coffee or whatever. But they won't touch it. And I will put a little grand marnier in my coffee before they come.
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 07:18 PM
Originally Posted By: lodo
Originally Posted By: WCW
Mostly I have lot's to say that has not much to do with DB or H or R or M so I am not sure where to say it!

That hasn't stopped the rest of us. Or are you worried about your DB legacy and don't want to dirty up your threads with rambling?

Bad cows? Are those the ones in leather jackets who hang out in the corner of the pasture and smoke?
Bad cows - hard to tell which ones are the worst because they are all in leather jackets and on grass. Get it?? cows = leather and pasture = grass? jeesh, I am so dang funny I can hardly stand myself!
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 09:52 PM
lol - you missed your calling, WCW. Thought you'd laugh at this:

Reasons Why Your Retired Derby-Winning Stallion Isn't Siring
- - - -

Potential mare shampooed with Herbal Essences instead of Mane 'n Tail.

Lack of selectively lit barns with low-priced drinks leading to spontaneous neighs and whinnies in a herd situation.

Older, experienced mare turned out to be a cougar.

Stallion wants to use a proper riding crop during intercourse, while mare prefers a dressage whip.

Breeding shed not candlelit or properly scented.

Spooked from piņata incident.

Stud fee makes him feel cheap and used.

Mare's tail is giving mixed messages.

Monetary stress due to betting on horses with cool names.

Just realized all horses have teeth like that.

He's fallen in love with the barn cat.
Posted By: NNP1965 Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 10:05 PM
I'm anxious to see if/when this thread locks will WCW start one of her own? I vote she chooses someone to start one for her... I like going on treasure hunts to find her thread...
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 10:12 PM
maybe she can leave little clues on other people's threads as to who started her thread, what forum it's in, and what it's called \:\)
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/21/08 10:54 PM
Having a winning stallion that breeds mares I can verify that the mare's tail DOES give mixed signals! and then she backs up what she is saying with her hind feet! yoowwzzerrr! Those poor stallions are pretty vulnerable and exposed while they are on their hind feet.

I sort of miss yacking on my own thread, but I also enjoy the irresponsibility of not having a thread. Go figure. Maybe I really having my own MLC and H is the sane one!
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/22/08 08:41 PM
Originally Posted By: WCW
I sort of miss yacking on my own thread, but I also enjoy the irresponsibility of not having a thread. Go figure. Maybe I really having my own MLC and H is the sane one!

Do you mean yacking=talking or yacking=puking?

Weird! What if WCW suddenly wakes up and this whole chat board and all our sitches was part of a dream and her loving H walks in and asks "Did you have a nice nap? Wanna boink?"

Posted By: Bridgestone Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/23/08 02:40 AM
boink????
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/23/08 02:42 AM
?s, try urbandictionary.com
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/23/08 03:15 PM
Originally Posted By: lodo
Originally Posted By: WCW
I sort of miss yacking on my own thread, but I also enjoy the irresponsibility of not having a thread. Go figure. Maybe I really having my own MLC and H is the sane one!

Do you mean yacking=talking or yacking=puking?

Weird! What if WCW suddenly wakes up and this whole chat board and all our sitches was part of a dream and her loving H walks in and asks "Did you have a nice nap? Wanna boink?"

I must still be dreaming. I'm still here, you're all still here, and no loving H trying to boink me. <sigh>

Ok, so I made a deal with myself that I have to finish a project for work before I start my own thread. I have been the Queen of Procrastination about it so I figured if I confessed it then maybe I will do it and get it over with. Or I can assign it to someone else to do for me. ;\)

All my people scheduled to ride canceled last night so I had a night to do things I hadn't gotten done for a while and then I also worked with the young guy that comes to help me with stuff. I tease him that I will make a good farmer/rancher out of him yet! He teases me that I am his hero that can drive a all the equipment we have and am teaching him so it looks good on his resume. We had some great talks, he had just found out a senior classmate is pregnant and he was shook up about it. (no it's not his) This kids parents had him just out of high school and never married, had joint custody and he spent his time swapping between homes every few days. I asked him how that affected him. He said it was how his life always was so it wasn't bad, but if he had known it any different he thought it would have been hard to adjust. He lives full time with his dad the last few years after his mom couldn't stand him anymore because he drank too much milk and ate the last of the cereal and she yelled all the time. Wow.
Life changing events - teenage pregnancy and drinking all the milk.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/25/08 12:08 AM
Hey cowgirl, how come you're selling your cows?

delegation is a fine art - give your project to someone else ;\)
Posted By: Phoenix_spark Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/25/08 04:49 PM
Hey WCW, just checking in to say Hi. Sad about your employee who had to leave his Mom because she was so uptight about the milk and cereal. I'm sure there are a few parents looking to adopt who would love to have someone come eat their cereal and drink their milk. Some people's parents!

On the NAP = BOINK concept, you would find me constantly trying to catch a nap on the couch. (If I were you).
Posted By: WCW Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/25/08 06:34 PM
Hey PS, where ARE you sleeping lately? is W on the couch yet?

H and I will load cows for the sale tomorrow. We will both be glad. No matter what I/we do they are out again as soon as my back is turned. Yesterday H saddled up to go find them, they had escaped during the night. There are a few that are runners and just look to crash the fence. They lead the pack thru the belly deep grass to get out and eat somewhere else. It's frustrating, irritating, tiring, expensive, and liability so we will cull them out and keep what is hopefully the good cows . It's way past time to move them off our place. H was going to do it a few months ago and wanted my approval and I said sure. He didn't do it. Then he said they were too skinny to sell. I said that's because we can't keep them on the belly deep grass plus they still have their (way too old) calves sucking them. I weaned the calves into a different pen, and the cows are in good shape now.

The difference this time about selling the cows.....ready????this is a real big baby step to me.....H said he wants to get replacement cows!!!!!!!!!! I know, I know. That doesn't guarantee anything but it reflects a definite change in H.
Posted By: lodo Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/26/08 12:38 AM
Those damn cows-gone-bad. always getting out and now they're outta here!

replacement cows?! Is that a technical cowboy term? you know us lay-people just don't understand the lingo ... \:\)
Posted By: NNP1965 Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/26/08 11:10 AM
Good luck with the sale!
Cows gone bad! I'm seeing the Far Side, here.....
Posted By: Jeff223 Re: The NEW WCW revived lodo thread - 07/28/08 03:21 PM
Quote:
Cows gone bad! I'm seeing the Far Side, here.....

LOL!!!
Posted By: WCW Re: The clean up after lodo thread - 07/28/08 07:21 PM
WAAAAAA, talk about gone bad! this thread has gone bad and I'm turning it back over to lodo to clean up after himself!
Thanks for letting me stall up here for a while! ;\)
Posted By: lodo Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/05/08 05:45 AM
Here I am in the mood for a late night ramble and no thread to post on. I could start one, but WCW says I should clean up after myself.

Somehow it seems fitting to come back to Hopefulness. At first I was hopeful for my marriage, now I'm hopeful for myself. Surviving just wasn't a nice place to be, so maybe I'll move back in here if I feel like keeping a thread.

But, that isn't what inspired me to post. It was actually an oldtimer - einstein - who reposted after a long time away. That, combined with my own sitch, combined with others I read, combined with emails and chats with friends and family. It's all swirling around in my head and I start to sort out my beliefs and the whole tangled thing refuses to unwind. So here I am.

I guess it all comes down to accepting another no matter what they do. Am I really willing to do that? Unconditional love. Patience. Understanding. Blind determination to show support and care no matter how poorly you're treated.

Life is short. Why put up with that crap? You can leave tomorrow and probably find someone else that you're equally as compatible with. Well, maybe after a few attempts. Of course the history won't be there, but new history awaits.

But that isn't what DB and Dr. Phil and Marriage Builders and all the others tell us. Fight to right the wrongs. Show that patience and love and understanding no matter what they do to you, no matter how deep the hurt. And according to the success stories, it can work.

But that leaves me feeling like a failure. My XW refused to address anything, would only consider divorce, refused to give up OM. Now I'm supposed to DB after the legalities are finished instead of moving on and re-establishing a life with someone who cares for me and supports me?! I want to think that I should keep DBing, but others tell me to end contact, go dark, move on and refind myself.

So, there it is. I think many of us are struggling with the same issues. I'm finding I care less and less about XW - she certainly didn't show me much support despite my support of her. So why does DR make me feel guilty? Why does it make me feel more of a failure because I want to get on with my life? Yes, I could ignore the incredible pain and hurt my XW intentionally did to me. I could ignore the fact that she would immediately chuck a long term relationship in favor of a fleeting attraction. I could ignore that she did everything in her power to prevent us from reconnecting. But I won't. I don't want to because I wouldn't never accept that kind of behavior in anyone else, so why should I accept it in her?

So, there it is. I'm a DB failure, but in that failure I find hopefulness, because I can grow past the limits my XW imposed on me, grow past the emotional scars she left.

lodo
Posted By: Sara Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/05/08 06:00 AM
Not the way I see it. I see DB preparing people to withstand divorce if it is inevitable, but to be the best version of themselves so that they are attractive to the WAS if he/she should happen to change his/her mind. And if not, then you have centered yourself and strengthened your independence and are ready to go out in the world and begin again with more knowledge about human relationships than you had the first time around. And I think you have done that Lodo. I think you are a DB success. Now your wife is another story....
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/05/08 06:05 AM
Thanks sara - gee, it's great to interact with you in a way other than word twist!!
Posted By: Sara Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/05/08 06:15 AM
Yeah, especially since I seem to always lose.
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/06/08 05:01 PM
Hi lodo, welcome home. \:\)
I was hoping you'd find your way back here. You're a bit like me in that I am hopeful about my life and what I am doing to make it better. What I don't know is if that will include H. Right now that part is not hopeful.
Quote:
My XW refused to address anything
Do you want to compare frustration? I understand that people are conflict avoiders, I am too when it comes right down to it. But, to bury things so deep that you can't get in touch with reality to even consider improvements...I don't know...it just doesn't make sense to not even try.

I think that is why you and I feel so helpless and at a loss what to do when it comes to dealing with a WAS that won't even look at issues. They just want to cut slack and run. It's easier for them, and they can move on without ever dealing with themselves. Staying in the R and doing the hard work to make it prosper doesn't seem to be in their genes (Wranglers for my H).
Quote:
So, there it is. I'm a DB failure, but in that failure I find hopefulness, because I can grow past the limits my XW imposed on me, grow past the emotional scars she left.
You're not a failure, the woman who left you is. I bet it feels great to have scars now instead of open gaping wounds. See how far you've come already?

I have a love/hate R with WT.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/06/08 07:06 PM
Hi WCW!

Good to be back in a forum with no DRAMA and where people don't spend their energy making fun of those they don't like.

Yes, I know you're frustrated and I'm sorry for that. I can understand avoiding an issue when you only have limited investment in it, but a marriage is different. It seems to me that a spouse should be willing to commit to a little bit of a opportunity to mend things, especially when they were part of the problem! I guess it's that last bit that they don't believe - they try to shove everything on to us so that they feel justified.

I don't think my XW is a failure - I just don't think she'll ever be willing to compromise herself for the good of a R. Maybe that's selfish, maybe not. Whatever the case, she doesn't want to change. I do.

I do feel like I've come far. I wish I was further along. It was funny, I got an email that included an accidental (?) forward of an email she had sent to a mutual friend, in which the friend expressed support for both of us. There wasn't anything bad in her email, but she did mention that it had taken her awhile to get over thinking of herself as a divorced person.

Awhile? The divorce isn't legal for 3 more weeks?! We're on different timescales, obviously. That's okay, I'm more and more able to get her out of my head.

BTW, as I watch the economy sink into the toilet, have I mentioned how glad I am that I didn't try to take over the house mortgage? Think she'll be able to refinance that jumbo loan all by herself in the next 6 months? I'm not backing down on that one - if she can't get refi'ed, the house goes up for sale.

lodo
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/07/08 02:35 PM
lodo, if you're concerned about not having to worry about a mortgage I'd be happy to oblige and let you worry about some of mine. Just list your percentage and I'll bill you. \:\) Thanks!
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/08/08 05:41 AM
No thanks! Hey, WCW, why don't you put some of your money in the stock market to instill a little confidence ... or do you hate america?

nothing much to say. Posting to lock out this thread ... my first. I think I'm ready for the DB chapter of my life to be sealed. I'm finding new comfort and a new routine. I don't want to be reminded anymore of where I came from. Only where I'm going.

lodo
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/11/08 04:20 AM
Here I am again. Took 45 mins to get through all the sitches of all my friends here. I've spent so many hours on this BB since my sitch began.

And here I am on my thread, thinking about those others who have left. Girlfromipanema doesn't post, gForce is pretty much gone, bridgestone has begun withdrawing, I've left, AG was forced out. Whatever happened to peaches40, or whitneypinch?

Strange, these people you interact with here, sharing your innermost thoughts, and then you sort of drift on. Your wound scars over and becomes numb, and in a way you become numb. And the scar tissue is there and real, and it will never be the same.

We can all move on and be positive and make a life out of our lives, but that scar tissue is a hard reality, isn't it? It's the reminder. But in that reminder, at least for me, or as I'm coming to realize, is the future. The scar tissue means you've survived and recovered, not good as new but wiser and more experienced.

lodo
Posted By: Sara Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/11/08 05:12 AM
Yes, it leaves a scar. Just like physical wounds do. Good thing it does heal though. I sometimes think how gruesome we would all look if we had to go through the rest of our lives with all our injuries showing -- broken arms and legs, broken teeth, red inflamed eyes, etc. I guess we wouldn't have to worry about finding love anymore. People would run away at the sight of us!
Posted By: gForce Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/11/08 07:48 AM
Hey, I'm not gone -- just a lot less active. There are still a few threads I check on every day. It's impossible to be so emotionally intimate with a group of caring people and just shut it off. At least I don't think I'm that emotionally sterile.

Anyway, you sound so down. I think you have learned a lot about yourself, relationships, and what you want from a life partner. When you are ready, I am confident you'll find someone that appreciates you and gives you back what you deserve from her. Hang tough. Chicks dig tough.
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/12/08 05:38 AM
Hey g,

you're gone, and that's okay. That's the whole point. Not saying you're emotionally sterile, but there's real life and then there's online life. Real life is the more satisfying.

I'm not down. Just come on here to vent. I won't be ready for another relationship for awhile, but that's okay. I feel lonely, but maybe I need that time to reinvest in myself.

Chicks may dig tough, but that doesn't mean I'll change who I am. Chicks can either dig me or ditch me, I am who I am - a sensible person with a keen feeling to understand the role of self within society.

lodo
Posted By: SunnySeason Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/12/08 05:33 PM

Good Morning Lodo,

I was just getting ready to post you something about Maggie Scarf when you moved. Can't remember exactly what I was going to respond to since it's been a while now, but I do find her outlook & analysis to be pretty informative.

Especially interesting is her theory on why triangles (affairs)develop, which is "part of a natural effort to preserve the emotional system as it is--to counter changes which may menace it or lead to its eventual demise."

She does add that the triangles do prevent the system from changing in either direction, becoming better as well as getting
worse.

So, in some ways it makes it easier when the R moves out of that stuck stage. It's unfortunate that your W didn't choose to address your M. Her loss, b/c a man like you " a sensible person with a keen feeling to understand the role of self within society", isn't easy to find.

Sarah says this well;


I see DB preparing people to withstand divorce if it is inevitable, but to be the best version of themselves so that they are attractive to the WAS if he/she should happen to change his/her mind. And if not, then you have centered yourself and strengthened your independence and are ready to go out in the world and begin again with more knowledge about human relationships than you had the first time around. And I think you have done that Lodo. I think you are a DB success. Now your wife is another story....

Take Care & have a great Sunday,

Sunny
Posted By: Kalni Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/12/08 06:46 PM
Originally Posted By: lodo
So why does DR make me feel guilty? Why does it make me feel more of a failure because I want to get on with my life? Yes, I could ignore the incredible pain and hurt my XW intentionally did to me. I could ignore the fact that she would immediately chuck a long term relationship in favor of a fleeting attraction. I could ignore that she did everything in her power to prevent us from reconnecting. But I won't. I don't want to because I wouldn't never accept that kind of behavior in anyone else, so why should I accept it in her?


My feelings/thoughts exactly. Now, if you throw in the last few confusing actions of stbxH (which I didnt even post here so my friends wouldnt tell me to think about it...), you probably can understand the GUILT I feel I am pushing this to the end.
Some of my friends here, still very much DBing, dont get me. I can see that. Some that have turned "that" corner understand.

We may be/have been in slightly different situations but the end is the same. And the scar is the same/similar. And it makes me feel ugly. And I wish I didnt have it even if that meant I was still that "mean" person, ignorant about human relationships. But I guess, too late for wishing. I might as well use some make up to cover it, or just flash it around as a trophy from a war well fought but lost. You know what? Maybe our scars lodo, will add to our "charm" (especially to men, you are lucky). Maybe someone will love this scar on us... I bet when that happens, we will forget it is there...
K
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/13/08 10:55 PM
Hi everyone,

Sunny, thanks for sharing that.

Kalni! Thanks for finding me. I feel bad that I haven't been checking on old friends but am swamped. Thanks for your thoughts. I'm sure someone will love us, scars and all!

Decided to post because I spent a lot of time thinking this weekend. I find that I've moved into a new mental place and feel good about that. I still have lingering thoughts of XW but that's more out of habit than anything else.

Next week marks the 1-year anniversary of bomb. What a whirlwind ever since! I've spent so much time feeling like a failure, but it wasn't just me. W was too focused on her own career to prioritize fixing a slumping M. Looking back, I realize what she meant when she said certain things. Probably most importantly was when she told me that she knew I supported her and was willing to work hard to make the M work, but asked whether it was fair of her to come back to the R with conditions. She then said she wasn't good at sustaininig LTRs and hadn't followed through on our promise to get through the period of graduate work together. And to think she asked for a D 5 weeks after moving out!

I think that sums it up. Her conditional return would have been to ask not to be involved with each other, so she'd have time and space to completely focus on herself. In other words, no R regardless. I guess I should appreciate that she was honest with me and I just didn't hear or understand completely. The A wasn't the cause, it was simply a symptom of the kind of person she is and the state of our M in relation to other events.

I sometimes feel bad because she seems to have so completely moved on, has little need of me or our former life, is surrounded by friends, and is succeeding at her work. I'm still trying to catch up after the shambles of events leading up to D, I've made a few new friends but not many, and I miss times spent with my XW. But, like I said initially, I AM finding a new mental place to be in and I know that what I focus on expands. It just takes time and I'm comfortable with that.

I'm also okay with not pursuing friendship with XW. I know she doesn't appear to understand that, but I'm comfortable with it. I find it hard to think of relying or confiding in her the way I'd want to do with a friend. I miss her and our conversations, but I don't need them to be happy. She has always left people feeling like she keeps them at arms length; she's better at surface relationships. That is nothing I look for in a friend.

So, long post. But baby steps do help you move forward. I forgive XW; I always have. But that doesn't mean I agree with her or respect her decisions.

Hope everyone is well. lodo
Posted By: RMG77739 Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/16/08 11:00 PM
Lodo,

It is good to hear you are doing well... I think you are right in staying away from exW.... My exW wanted initially to be "friends"... I nipped that in the bud...... I did NOT want her holding me back from moving on with my life.........

I hope things continue to improve for you...

Take Care,

RMG
Posted By: GFI Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/17/08 07:08 AM
Hey there Lodo - think this "I forgive XW; I always have. But that doesn't mean I agree with her or respect her decisions" sums it up well for you.

Different folks take different paths at this stage and this one is clearly right for you. That's the most important thing.

Best - GFI
Posted By: Lyn Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/19/08 12:21 AM
Hi Lodo, I'm a sporadic poster so not one of the ones you probably remember. I found your sitch early on by accident, and always look for you, you inspire me a lot. I feel so much like you in my sitch. Hope I can forgive like you and remember my baby steps. Good luck, wish you all the best, you deserve it!
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/24/08 05:01 AM
Hey RMG, GFI, and Lyn,

thanks for checking in on me.

Haven't posted for awhile. Won't post much in the future. Guess it's just reaching that level of acceptance, you know?

Have been feeling really positive lately. Went to Vancouver for a conference and that went really well. Got back and suddenly felt motivated to deal with all the stuff I've been letting slide. And then I suddenly crashed again. And I began to realize that this is reality - at least until I establish a new R.

But that isn't what motivated me to post again.

What motivated me was something more intense, more personal. In a weird way, I guess it was the feeling of community.

Family, friends. The support we receive. There's something about it. We take it at the time, critique it even. And maybe rightfully so. But it's given freely. By people who care about us. And it's easy to lose sight of what that really means. Sometimes we become so obsessed with our own lives and trials, we lose sight of where the meaning in our life is flowing from.

I'll be honest - at this point I find it surprising that I was really in a relationship for as long as I was. Who is this woman?! She's not someone I care about anymore. But the people who do give me energy are those who care about me. In the long-term. I may not agree with them, but I do value them. That's an important distinction.

This is a weird post, I know. I wish I could put each of you inside my mind right now because I think you'd get it. But, not possible. And maybe I should go out for a walk instead - some fresh air. But I hope everyone is okay. There's a big world out there and we are but small pieces of it - vital pieces, but small. We deserve to enjoy what our years on this earth offer. If someone doesn't want to be with you, let them go.

lodo
Posted By: Purple Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/24/08 06:07 AM
So what happens if they say they do want to be with you but seem to keep putting off the hard work that needs to be done to ensure that we dont' end up in the same yucky place that led me to these types of forums?
Posted By: WCW Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/24/08 07:23 PM
Quote:
This is a weird post, I know.
That's the most sense you put in that whole post! ;\)

lodo buddy, you're still lost and feeling out your future. You're single again and have all the opportunities in front of you to make your life full of your dreams. I remember when I had that opportunity and I jumped back into the fire. duh.
Quote:
We deserve to enjoy what our years on this earth offer. If someone doesn't want to be with you, let them go.
You sound like a WAS. But hey, that's ok because of where you are in life right now. We all deserve to enjoy our days here, but I think the key to being able to enjoy it with someone is keeping communication open. You might think they don't want to be with you because they think you don't want to be with them. That feeling feeds and builds because no one ever just stopped and said 'hey, what's up?'

The question I really want to ask you is - If someone doesn't want to be with you how do you get rid of them?

How soon will you be skijoring?

Do you hang up your bike in the winter? oh wait, you don't get winter. Too bad so sad. You'd love it all over again (not).

How's that, did I match your weird post?
Posted By: lodo Re: Hopeful but unsure what's next - 10/27/08 02:59 AM
Hey,

Just stopping by my old thread. Felt like I should post today. It's the end. I don't really understand why the judge said the D wouldn't be legal until today, being a sunday and all, but there it is.

In some ways it's a relief. I've been waiting for this day for what seems like forever. Everything I read always said that the healing begins once the D is final. And here I was in in this stupid waiting period. I haven't even spoken to W for a month. I'm waiting to be able to say, "I haven't even spoken to XW for 6 months."

But. a friend posted some old college pics on fb last night. Made me laugh - who the heck was I back then?! So I went to pull out some old college pix to scan and post as well. And almost all the pix I've got are of XW and I. We've done a lot in the past 12 years. Been a lot of places, experienced a lot of different things.

There were also letters mixed in. I didn't realize they'd be there. When I moved out of the house I was just throwing everything in boxes. There was a letter to me from as recently as 3 months prior to bomb - "I love you more each day, your wife."

right.

It was hard because these things mean so much to me. Those experiences formed who I am. I'm not particularly nostalgic, but I draw meaning from where I've come from to help inform where I'm going. And XW is constantly burning bridges in order to move forward. I don't understand. I never will.

And that's okay.

So. Just a post. I'm doing okay. It'll all be fine. I looked at those old pictures, saw myself smiling in them, and wondered if I'd ever be happy like that again. But it's started to come in bits and pieces. Time. It takes time. And I still have a lot to address within myself.

Okay. I'm rambling now. take care everyone. Thanks WCW for always being there. Thanks Kat and karen for making me laugh. Thanks g for relating. Thanks Lyn for saying hi. Thanks puppy, h4h, lwb, neecy, sara and the other sara for always posting to me. Thanks to Mike for being Mike. And kerry for being kerry. Kalni, I think of you in the golden light of sunset. GFI, I've hoped for so long that things would resolve for you. RMG - thanks for the great advice. AG - thank you as well for providing insight and opinions. Sweet cookie and Bridgestone, a special hug for both of you because you deserve it.

I'm sorry if I left anyone out. In case it wasn't obvious, this is my goodbye. And how fitting, that it will end on the thread that started it for me. Weird, huh?

Take care everyone - you deserve the best.

lodo
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