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Geez, can't believe I have to start another thread already! Here's a link to the previous one (Stillme's Last Chapter?): http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1070715&page=2&nt=8&fpart=1 and a

BRIEF Recap:

IDLY Bomb: end/Oct.'06
D Bomb: end/Nov.'06
H was to move out Jan.07, but Dbing begun 1/5/07 &
H stayed in home (as friendly roommate w/occasional benefits).
In mid-March '07, b/c of disagreement/control issues re: my getting a FT legal sec'y job (H's want) vs. (my pref) pursuing Pilates instructor career, I told H he needed to move out & he left that wkend (moving into an apt across the street).
Since that time, H has been consistently angry & ugly, or avoids/ignores me (with a FEW minor breaks for 'nice' interactions).
H's anger is financially-based.
To date No D Papers have been filed

**************************************************************

So, I told my C today about H's anger which DB Coach believes is from H's financial stresses which he feels I am not only not validating but the cause behind. She agreed. When I gave examples of what I said/what H said in some recent negative interactions, she said she sees me doing alot of "stating" (ex., "H, if you leave the lawnmower [where I can get to it], I can/will mow [instead of him]" & even, when I THOUGHT I was wording it well! "H, I know you said you were going in to work today, but I thought I'd call to see if you wanted to keep S w/you b/c he'd rather not go shopping w/us") and this is a form of attempting to control him. She's right!!! And, okay, this is "just the way I am" and certainly not (usually) meant in an aggressive/controlling waiy - but, at least in this sitch, it's not the best way to go as it only fuels H's anger - obviously. Who knew??!

So, instead of Stating, she wants me to put question marks after almost every thing I say (or at least every new subject, or first few sentences of our interactions). "H, would you like to keep S today?" or "H, should I try & mow the lawn while you're away?" - There's less opp. for him to have an ugly response, and may SHOW (duh! more DBing) that I'm trying to work WITH him on this sitch instead of AGAINST him.

When C & I talked about H's financial stress issues, she wants me to Question H along the lines of, "What can I do to help the sitch [financially] for right now?" "What is something that can help us (yes, US!) financially?" and, after I crunch some numbers, give him some info & figures re: my P.career projections (as 'positives' rather than the 'negative unknowns' he only has to work w/).

A few things she said to be cautious about:
(1) If H is as "all about getting HIS 50% of the kids' time per month" is may be b/c he is looking to have the child support become a non-issue. She says (tho I don't remember reading this in my research) that if we each have the kids for 50% of the mo., there is no child support paid by either party to the other, & being Primary Caretaker has its benefits (not the least of which is $). (Something to ask L about on Mon.); and

(2) Do not tell H if/when I decide I don't want to live in the house until I (at least) talk to my L. She talked about how my 'giving up' the house w/o a S Agreemnt or b/f D may be looked on negatively by the Courts; that if I (as kids' Primary Caretaker) don't want the house, it must be sold & the proceeds divided; & mentioned more than once about single-mom apt-living is not the safest place & "locks me in" for a long time ($ down the drain basically) . . . I don't know about all of that either, but it's best to check it out w/L b/f going public w/any decisions I may make.

So, I'm crunching numbers. . .Working on getting as many new clients as I can in the next wk or 2, so I can (hopefully) have some really good positives to show for myself in the financial dept., take some of the weight off H (He even this morning said, "Do you want me to pay this?", holding up the cable/phone bill he'd just opened; and I'd said "Yes" thinking 'well, yeah, that's waht you said you were going to do. Why are you asking me?') Okay, I'm looking at it diff. now. (In my favor, I did pay my cc bill yest. instead of leaving it for H. . .) Am I selfish or what? I was (was!) so concerned w when/if H would stop the checks to my account for food/gas/etc & say I would have to be resp to pay x + y + whatever as well . . .

OT, is this what you meant by your post? I took it that you meant I shouldn't have felt entitled to $uppport after D. . .

So, lots of thinking today/tonight.

Last edited by stillme; 06/07/07 02:18 AM.

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

Me: 45 - WAH: 36
S8; D6
M: 11 yrs 07/06
Initial Bomb 10/06; D Bomb 11/06 - DBing begun 1/5/07 - H moved out 03/16/07
To date: No papers filed; H not seen a L; trying to convince me to MUTUALLY file for D
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Sounds like you have some good thoughts and plans going on.

Can I ask why you don't want to stay in the house? I know that in my case, I am not particularily attached to my house, but I know H doesn't want it. If I can handle it financially, I will keep it. The thought of the upkeep by myself sort of scares me, but that kind of thing can get figured out. The main thing that makes me want to keep the house is to keep as little upheaval in the kids lives as possible. I was just curious why you didn't want to keep yours.


Me(34)
H(36)
M for 11 yrs
S4
D1.5
Bomb 9/2006

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Hello still:

So that's what a "Brief Recap" looks like. ;\)

Originally Posted By: stillme
In mid-March '07, b/c of disagreement/control issues re: my getting a FT legal sec'y job (H's want) vs. (my pref) pursuing Pilates instructor career, I told H he needed to move out & he left that wkend (moving into an apt across the street).


I don't remember that. Why did you ask him to leave the house? Any details you could cut & paste here again? I'm curious about that.

Originally Posted By: stillme
Since that time, H has been consistently angry & ugly, or avoids/ignores me (with a FEW minor breaks for 'nice' interactions).
H's anger is financially-based.


Is his anger also about being "asked to leave the house"? I mean the connection to the financial stress is obvious, but maybe the "being asked to leave" is more important. Just thinking out loud. What would it take for him to move back in (assuming he wanted to)? Do you think he would feel the need to be invited back (not that you could/shoul)? Or do oyu think he would be comfortable just telling you I am moving back in or I want to move back in?

Originally Posted By: stillme
When I gave examples of what I said/what H said in some recent negative interactions, she said she sees me doing alot of "stating" (ex., "H, if you leave the lawnmower [where I can get to it], I can/will mow [instead of him]" & even, when I THOUGHT I was wording it well! "H, I know you said you were going in to work today, but I thought I'd call to see if you wanted to keep S w/you b/c he'd rather not go shopping w/us") and this is a form of attempting to control him. She's right!!! And, okay, this is "just the way I am" and certainly not (usually) meant in an aggressive/controlling waiy - but, at least in this sitch, it's not the best way to go as it only fuels H's anger - obviously. Who knew??!


Not me. \:o

Originally Posted By: stillme
So, instead of Stating, she wants me to put question marks after almost every thing I say (or at least every new subject, or first few sentences of our interactions). "H, would you like to keep S today?" or "H, should I try & mow the lawn while you're away?" - There's less opp. for him to have an ugly response, and may SHOW (duh! more DBing) that I'm trying to work WITH him on this sitch instead of AGAINST him.


I like it.

Originally Posted By: stillme
When C & I talked about H's financial stress issues, she wants me to Question H along the lines of, "What can I do to help the sitch [financially] for right now?" "What is something that can help us (yes, US!) financially?" and, after I crunch some numbers, give him some info & figures re: my P.career projections (as 'positives' rather than the 'negative unknowns' he only has to work w/).


I like this too.

I though she gave you solid advice on the two things to be cautious about.

Originally Posted By: stillme
So, I'm crunching numbers. . .Working on getting as many new clients as I can in the next wk or 2, so I can (hopefully) have some really good positives to show for myself in the financial dept., take some of the weight off H


btw, I'd like to order 57 private P sessions for the weekend of 8/11, and I will prepay. ;\)

Nomopo


M 39
W 39
M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs
S7 D4
Bomb 5-8-05
W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22
DB 4-10
S 6-11
No more C
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No, I wasn't talking about alimony.

It was more the tone in the discussion you described in that other post more than anything else. The sense that the man is the paycheck, that you are entitled to the paycheck, and your financial input is optional in some way. I'm not saying that's how you feel, but that is how it sounded. I think that yes, you are getting at some of the stuff I was hearing.

But, please talk to your L first before you take ANY action that affects your financial sitch.

DBwise, I think it is a TERRIFIC idea to show H a pilates biz plan with projections. That is really stepping up and showing that you are willing to share in the financial burden. But legally, I don't know if it would hurt your alimony if H's L had your financial projections.

What about some other things? Can you cancel cable? Where else can you save money? Can you find $100 a month to save and ask H what he thinks of those ideas?

Imagine you told H: "H, I just can't handle things at home, I'm losing it. There are so many activities, the housecleaning, plus X,Y,Z. There is a lot of heavy lifting, there are repairs that only you can make, I'm really overwhelmed. My quality of life sucks, I can't do this alone. I really need some help with some of this. I want other things now that the kids are a bit older, I want to be able to spend maybe 10% of my time on this Pilates thing. It means a lot to me."

How validated would you feel if H said: "Gee honey, I can understand why that would be stressful, you've always been such a great housekeeper. It must be hard to feel overwhelmed. But no, I really can't take out the trash. Maybe I'll work on some of those repairs next year."

And then the next day you say: "H, you walked in the door, got mud all over the carpet, and threw your clothes all over the place. Do you want me to clean up after you?"

H replies: "Yes" while looking at you like you are crazy. You are the SAHM after all.

You see?


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Wow Still,

Just read new post & it's right along the lines of what I was wanting to talk about.

S-teenager is after me to get off so he can complete HW, so I'll get back to you tomorrow,

Sunny


M-7 yrs
together-8 yrs
S-4yr
S-15yr

Bomb-4/25/07
Sep-same day
me-49
H-49

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1510033&page=0&fpart=1



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stillme Offline OP
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Quote:
Nomo: I don't remember that. Why did you ask him to leave the house? Any details you could cut & paste here again? I'm curious about that. ... Is his anger also about being "asked to leave the house"? I mean the connection to the financial stress is obvious, but maybe the "being asked to leave" is more important.

Nomo, wkend b/f Thanksgiv. H dropped the D bomb & said he was moving out & filing after the holidays. Xmas morn. I told H he needed to move out the day after his mom left (she was visiting 12/8-1/5) b/c I was crazy-emotional then [holidays, crying, angry, hiding from his mom/H -who was camped out on the couch from his knee surgery 12/5...]. From xmas nite thru 1/4 H initiated long heart-to-hearts, some very pos for our sitch, but always ending in him saying he was still "done" & moving out. DBing began 1/5 &, after a pos family-interaction wkend, H propsed that, if I 'let' him stay in the house for a few months, for financial reasons [he could 'chunk down' my Yukon, save for rental costs (He had used almost all oru savings on a boat just b/f Bomb), etc.] - altho I think even at that time he wasn't ready to really let go...

Jan./Feb I assumed I'd get work as a legal sec'y (the only thing I'd ever done) - bought $400 in office clothes (which H didn't bat an eye at), redid my resume, looked into jobs. . . and came on wall after wall. At the same time, gym was asking me to sub Pilates & to become the P.Personal Trainer there until they were ready to dev. a class for me (I had gotten cert.last Sept [pre-bomb] thinking it would be a good suppl-the-fam-income-get-me-out-of-the-house-alt.-to-FT-job-etc]. So....when I shared w/H (remember: we were 'friends' then) my excitement about P., he shut down the friendship & we couldn't go a day w/o fighting over the sitch. (He has since said he believes I 'blew' the 1 interview I went on b/c I NEVER didn't get a legal sec'y job when i wanted it...It doesn't matter that the firm has still not filled the pos...). So, friends were telling me H was cake-eating, I felt H had been using me & now trying to control me, we were both stressed & arguing in front of the kids...& I told him it wasn't working out & he needed to leave. (He did say he had been planning to move out after S's b'day 4/2 anyway...)

We had another heart-to-heart the night before he left, and I posted that it seemed to have let some light shine on our sitch. He borrowed my car; I gave him the coffeemaker, towels, pics of the kids for his apt; He even returned the next morn. & we talked like normal (I posted: What couple chats the morn after the H moves out?!) But by Mon. he was ugly, and has stayed that way since.

Quote:
Nomo: What would it take for him to move back in (assuming he wanted to)? Do you think he would feel the need to be invited back (not that you could/shoul)? Or do oyu think he would be comfortable just telling you I am moving back in or I want to move back in?
I really think he NEEDS to be on his own. He'd been looking forward to it since at least last July (H admits to deciding on the D back then), and there were 2 times during our heart-to-hearts that he brought it up as a not-necessarily-bad thing, including "The only thing I can think of that may help is if we S for a while & really think about if it's [D] what has to happen."

Quote:
Nomo: btw, I'd like to order 57 private P sessions for the weekend of 8/11, and I will prepay.


You nut!

Last edited by stillme; 06/07/07 12:25 PM.

Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

Me: 45 - WAH: 36
S8; D6
M: 11 yrs 07/06
Initial Bomb 10/06; D Bomb 11/06 - DBing begun 1/5/07 - H moved out 03/16/07
To date: No papers filed; H not seen a L; trying to convince me to MUTUALLY file for D
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Kat, about why I don't want to keep the house. . . mostly financial (the mtg+equity loan + homeowners dues is close to $2K/mo, and I can see myself being 'house-rich-dollar-poor very quickly, esp. after whatever period of alimony is over), plus the cleaning, maintenance, upkeep - if something major happens/needs repair/replace, I'm sunk, . . . the lawn (the time alone! 1 stoopid tree in the front yard keeps threatening to die, and to replace it [a must in our dev.] is $500 alone) . . .besides the fact that I never liked the house in the first place (we considered it an 'apt' house & something that we would upgrade when we had settled a bit) plus the memories (for me) and unrealized plans/dreams . . .

Yes, the kids love their neighborhood friends but I really don't consider them moving to another place w/me an upheaval or neg. change - after all we upheaved them just 2 yrs ago when we moved from TX to FL. I don't see much diff in this instance, esp if it's handled as NOT a neg thing.

I'm not enamoured w/the kids' school & had actually been considering putting them in my church's private Christian school (to be completed next yr) anyway, so tho I'd really not have to change schools, again, they'd do it anyway if it was what was best for them or the fam. W/H's apt where it is, the kids will still go to their same school no matter where I lived (tho I wouldn't move out of town).

Plus, if H takes it over, the kids can keep "their" house, rooms, neighborhood, school, etc. He's the handyman, he makes lots more $ than I ever will so the $$ doesn't frighten him as it does me, he needs the garage (boat, hobbies, car-guy stuff) & he hates change.

So, lots of reasons NOT to keep the house. I'm still not 100% there, tho.


Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

Me: 45 - WAH: 36
S8; D6
M: 11 yrs 07/06
Initial Bomb 10/06; D Bomb 11/06 - DBing begun 1/5/07 - H moved out 03/16/07
To date: No papers filed; H not seen a L; trying to convince me to MUTUALLY file for D
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Okay, still working thru responses. . . Thanks everyone for your input, and questions appreciated. Got less than 10 min. b/f I need to leave to teach a class [last-min. sub. Yay!], then more blood work [seems my thryoid is wonky], but I'll be back late-aft. to check on y'all! ;\)

OT, I am coming to believe I am one of those know-it-all people who really, uh, don't. I almost always 'listen w/o hearing' Ex., when C was sitting in front of me saying those things about asking Q's Re: helping the finacnial/stress sitch, I was listening but thinking "But H is the one who set up this financial stress sitch! But why should I make it easy for him? But why should I make it harder for me? But H is only gonna say Get a legal sec'y job!" But I listened & didn't disagree or argue and, by the time I got home (hrs later), w/o even knowing I had really been thinking about it, I had made a 180 & couldn't wait to post my revelation! Duh, me!

So, thanks for putting the initial thoughts out there for me. I can read them diff now, and see what you meant really. Actually when C first started talking about 'validating H's financial stress' I thought of your post.

I will talk to L b/f any decisions or showing H the P.projections/plans, but I will certainly prepare them - at least for myself for right now.

Shoot - gotta run. There's more to respond to. Some good ques. there - plus when I read that 'hypotehtical' you wrote, my first thought was "WHAT???!!!" (didn't get the irony. No smiley face, I guess.)

AKKK! I'm gone! bbl


Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.

Me: 45 - WAH: 36
S8; D6
M: 11 yrs 07/06
Initial Bomb 10/06; D Bomb 11/06 - DBing begun 1/5/07 - H moved out 03/16/07
To date: No papers filed; H not seen a L; trying to convince me to MUTUALLY file for D
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Thanks for the detail on H's moving out. One more question.

Originally Posted By: stillme
So....when I shared w/H (remember: we were 'friends' then) my excitement about P., he shut down the friendship & we couldn't go a day w/o fighting over the sitch.

[. . .]

we were both stressed & arguing in front of the kids...& I told him it wasn't working out & he needed to leave.


How much time between these two pieces?

Nomopo


M 39
W 39
M'd 10 yrs; T 14 yrs
S7 D4
Bomb 5-8-05
W not working on M 1-22-07; EA 2-22
DB 4-10
S 6-11
No more C
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Before I get to the "money" stuff & thoughts I've had on that, I want to urge you to proceed w/ caution on the house/schooling, etc.

Definitely talk to a L before making any moves. My trip thru family courts 8 yrs ago before my XH became one of my best friends taught me a lot;

1)The parent who stays in the family home has an advantage. Whether it's the mother/father makes no diff. It's all about the kids, period, & they're looking out for their interests only.

2)Your H has prob been counseled to keep a daily log of time spent & any interactions around that w/you. If you haven't already been doing this, best to start immed. By appearances, his wanting to make sure he doesn't lose any hrs from his 50%, it looks like he's setting precedence & will have no problem making the case for as little child support as possible.

3)If your H moves into the family home & has the kids going to their school, living in their home, etc. You might be the one who pays him ch. support. It could also be that if you wanted to send them to new school, you would have to get his agreement & then have to pay for it.

I'm not an attny, so don't really know all, just wanting to give you a heads up, so to speak, before you make any moves. A flight attendant I know ended up having to work more to pay ch. support to the H who left her for his secretary while they lived in the family home w/ her in an apt.

My XH tried to get me to sign a paper at one time for something else (SS?) that stated he was the primary care taker of our son & I only had him 1/3 of the time. I told him I was sorry, but I couldn't help him out by signing something that wasn't true. When we ended up in court (he moved to Hawaii & tried to keep S after his 4 week visit), I was more than glad I never signed.

Just things to keep in mind & perhaps try to "think out of the box" at options other than giving up home.

Best,
Sunny


M-7 yrs
together-8 yrs
S-4yr
S-15yr

Bomb-4/25/07
Sep-same day
me-49
H-49

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1510033&page=0&fpart=1



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