is this normal?

[strongerthanever]

Oh gosh guys…I don’t know if I’ve detached too much, gone too dark or what…but my mind is flip flopping. My 180s are working, but I don’t even know if I want H anymore. Has anyone else gone through this?

I was a WAW, for so many reasons. While we have been separated for 6 months we have reversed roles, leaving him having a full blown PA with his married boss. Through my DB strategies, he has come around and is texting me 3 times a week. He’s called me “wifey”, admitted to being confused and wanting his family back. Granted, that SAME night he was camping with OW and filed for D 3 days later.

Here we are 1 week later and he wants to turn our weekly child exchange into a dinner date. At first I was so excited to see my baby steps, but guys, idk anymore……I’m really thinking of just showing up to get my girls and then leaving, no dinner.

My inner dialogue is saying “he has not worked on a single thing that caused you to walk away. Why do you even want him back? For more of the same?”

I don’t guys. I can’t go back to that life. An unchanged man means an unchanged relationship. That, I just can’t do.

I’m not going to go into the details of the bad (not drugs or anything like that), because they don’t really matter. What I’m REALLY wondering is have any of you ever felt like this? Is this normal?

[~ kd ~]

First and foremost, jg333... it is WAY too early for you to think that you have even begun to get over being a WAW...

I would suspect that you have not yet moved from that mind set. Only (from briefly reading your post in newcomers) that you went into pursuit mode because your H was detaching from you and was entering a R with someone else (regardless of whether his OW was M).

It is unlikely that anything... any changes you made... are good and stuck on you.

We say change ourselves to change the M. Waiting for him to change FIRST... well, that's not going to happen unless he's DBing... or he has an epiphany. You need to have changed yourself for a long enough time so that he cannot continue on as he is BECAUSE of your changes.

If you wish to move on, then move on.

If you simply feel you can not "take it" anymore... well, for better or worse, DBing is generally called a marathon because it generally takes longer than a few months for any real, long lasting, beneficial changes to occur.

[strongerthanever]

So true, it is a marathon. I give everyone so much credit. Do you really think I'm not over being the waw? Never thought of that. I think I need to continue pulling back and just focusing on my life.

[~ kd ~]

Just some things you said, jg333. Hints, if you will.

During these times in our lives, we go through many of the processes of grieving. Similar to the death of a loved on. I'd recommend looking up information on that.

One of the significant and little considered stages is negotiation and another powerful one that could be misinterpreted is anger.

Anger is obvious enough, although as I mentioned, it can be misinterpreted. What that means is, anger generally comes from a root of fear. What ever the cause of that anger though, it is our choice of where and how to direct that anger. Some point at themselves, others point at their spouse or nuclear family, others point at pressures of work... The reality is, the anger is simply IN us. We can work through it without putting blame on someone or something.

A person who is dying will "negotiate" with doctors or even God or themselves. "Just one more month" or "what about trying some untested therapy". In a M, we may again negotiate with our selves. But we often negotiate (not always directly or overtly) with our spouse. "If only THEY did this or that." We can't control what others do. But we definitely know that changing ourselves, changes the relationship.

So rather than directing anger at our spouses and accusing them of not doing something or doing something that we don't like... we change ourselves... and in doing so, the relationship changes... which often can create change in our spouses behaviours.

I see anger and negotiation in your posts. Those can often be indicators associated with a WAS.

Here is something that might help you out. There can be very little difference between the LBS and the WAS. We simply use those two terms to indicate the person's current behaviour. More often than not, it appears the LBS is here.

In my M, my W would be considered the WAS. Yet in reality, I was twice the WAS. Once, prior to the "bomb" from my W and once afterwards. I would still consider an attempt to reconcile the M. But my W has yet to (openly) consider and suggest that option. Until then, I am considered the LBS here and my W the WAS.

Even though I am likely to be "the one" to completely give up on the M and file D.

IF you would like to R, then you are the one that needs to do "the work". Have no expectations that your H will do anything or make any changes actively. Any changes in him will likely be the result of changes that you make for yourself, that are consistent over a long period of time. An amount of time that makes them a habit and permanent in yourself.

Hope that makes sense.

[strongerthanever]

You are so right. More like negotiation | anger. At first I was the WAW, then LBS. Now I find myself reminded of why I was the WAW to begin with. I go through so many conflicting emotions it isn't even funny.

And yes, there is so much fear there. I fear the R for everything it out had the potential to be and I fear how ugly it could get. I honestly get this awful feeling in my gut when I think of H. From your reply I would suppose it is fear/pain/anger.

I wonder why that is?

My bad physical reactionhad caused me to go dark on him. I feel safest and happiest when he is far far away, dead to me, as you could say.

gal has made me happy on my own. I have moments where I cry but then I poesy to God to take the pain away. I allow myself to feel it and then let it go. But being around him...smelling him, his smile, his hug allows those feelings to resurface which reminds me of the reality that he is still with ow. So now I have connected seeing him = gut wrenching pain.

Last encounter I was lovingly distant, though I wish our interaction would have ended quicker. 5 min into it he was bragging about their weekend. At least I held my own and recovered well.

real long term changes in us = an eventual change in the R. As of right now he still isn't respecting women. He's having a pa with ow who is also m. Ow is not able to get pregnant do she plays out her m Mommy fantasy with my d2 and d3. And yet he still talks about r with me and sex. He can't even stay faithful to the woman he's cheating on me with! Ironic huh? So I just stay away and don't posy him any attention while he's still acting like a.selfish boy who thinks the world and women revolve around him.

Yup, there's that anger again

Thanks for your reply, it really means a lot to me

[~ kd ~]

You are so right. More like negotiation | anger. At first I was the WAW, then LBS. Now I find myself reminded of why I was the WAW to begin with. I go through so many conflicting emotions it isn't even funny.

Yes, that stuff in bold is called "the roller coaster", here. In your case, it appears combined in some ways with changing roles of pursuit / distance. Look that up on this board if you can, although the info should also be searchable on your favourite search engine.

Many WAS go through that and the LBS gets sucked into it until the LBS stabalizes and actively works DBing (in the case of the roller coaster, it is GAL and Dark that works best).

And yes, there is so much fear there. I fear the R for everything it out had the potential to be and I fear how ugly it could get. I honestly get this awful feeling in my gut when I think of H. From your reply I would suppose it is fear/pain/anger.

I think they all feed into the WAS mindset. Pain which becomes persistent might lead to fear that it will continue if the M is not ended and the anger which is directed at the spouse quite often because the WAS does not initially understand that they have the power of their own happiness, even within a bad M. And by using techniques like DB, the WAS can change the M for the better, by changing themselves, learning to be happy, and those consistent changes can change the behaviour of the LBS... thus the M can possibly be saved...

It starts with one of the spouses beginning to do the work. In this case... you...

My bad physical reaction had caused me choose to go dark on him. I feel safest and happiest when he is far far away, dead to me, as you could say.

I intentionally struck out the physical reaction as a cause of anything.

First, let me explain that I understand what you mean. How you felt and therefore why you chose to go dark. We say here that the WAS has detached from the LBS (in advance of the LBS learning to detach from the WAS). Again, that's fairly "script" for a WAS. Completely understandable so don't feel bad about what happened.

Here's the thing. I stress it was a choice, not a reason or cause. Yes, you had a bad physical reaction... but it was a choice to go dark. You did have other choices, but in that moment you decided on going dark. It does not make it right or wrong. It is just what it is. But it was a choice, as opposed to discussing it with your H... which maybe you feared doing because it would only prolong the inevitable... only you know.

Let me stress and I hope you can understand... notice how... by changing yourself (choosing to go dark) the M changed... your H changed... that's what we work on in DBing... just in a productive and positive way... making positive changes in ourselves to cause positive changes in the M and our spouse... hopefully... but without expectations...

gal has made me happy on my own. I have moments where I cry but then I poesy to God to take the pain away. I allow myself to feel it and then let it go. But being around him...smelling him, his smile, his hug allows those feelings to resurface which reminds me of the reality that he is still with ow. So now I have connected seeing him = gut wrenching pain.

Yes, as bolded, that IS the purpose of GAL. To begin to focus on other things and learning that we make our own happy. But not that we make our happy by partying or avoiding. And you're learning that. You DO cry so you are NOT avoiding. You need to work through that pain of loss.

Often, we'll mention to the spouse who is here to understand that their old M is dead. Often, we need to start from a new beginning, with a beginner's mind. And we cannot do that, intentionally. We actually have to get to that place where we really are OK with being alone. Being D. And at that point in time, we can consider a new R with someone. Which might consider the spouse NOT here as an option.

Last encounter I was lovingly distant, though I wish our interaction would have ended quicker. 5 min into it he was bragging about their weekend. At least I held my own and recovered well.

Your rebound has created a fresh, emotional attachment to your H. You should work on detaching, without using the WAS scripts this time (the anger / blame). So yes... lovingly distant.

And it is up to you to end any interactions as quickly as possible without being rude or curt. In that way, you protect yourself from getting into convo too deep and you begin to hurt. Practice staying detached longer and longer and soon those topics won't bother you.

real long term changes in us = an eventual change in the R. As of right now he still isn't respecting women. He's having a pa with ow who is also m. Ow is not able to get pregnant do she plays out her m Mommy fantasy with my d2 and d3. And yet he still talks about r with me and sex. He can't even stay faithful to the woman he's cheating on me with! Ironic huh? So I just stay away and don't posy him any attention while he's still acting like a.selfish boy who thinks the world and women revolve around him.

Yup, there's that anger again

Yup. And good you notice that because then you can do something about it. While what he is doing is considered socially inappropriate, first be careful not to lay blame on the OW. Her choices are also inappropriate, but do remember that your H is CHOOSING to be with a M woman.

Also, remember that while one can point at him for having an A, the reality for him was that you considered the M dead and so he is moving on. That doesn't make it right, but it is probably something that he is thinking or saying and he's probably hurting and so is seeking to get his ego stroked by the OW.

I will continue to respond to you here if you'd like. I'm not really active on this board now as I am working on my own GAL. So seek out support and continue to post in your thread in the newcomers forum (I've bumped it up). Any member can certainly support you in working on yourself with DB and possibly help you save your M.

[strongerthanever]

Kaffe,

How are you doing? It has been a while my friend.

A week after our last encounter H stepped up his game, twirling me around, hugging me, even kissed me and told me how much he loved me as the mother of his children. I was so excited afterwards to see the connection still existed. Stayed dark and realised the importance of not getting too excited on his "up" days.

Dark is my new normal, though it feels very light for me, not dark at all. Distance = a healthier happier future focused me. In fact, I see his brief weekly bursts of emotion as his new way of cake eating. Some people would see it as progress, but he quickly retreats into hiding with OW 'till the next week. Yeah, I'm over that. Not really the kind of girl to get excited over a few crumbs being thrown my way every Sunday. So I put an end to it.

He knows how I feel in my heart. I beat that horse to death. If he wants to come back he will own that feeling and honestly approach me. Did I tell you he filled for D on June 4th? I'm not even phased by it. Funny huh? I know I'm going to be ok. I'm not ever planning on seeming him in the future except for our initial status confrence July 2nd.

I'm not only not scared of D but I'm embracing it. The finality of it may shake/wake him up. I honestly see his filing as a way of beating me, or score keeping. I mean he did follow it with 2 weeks of increased emotion/physical affection. But I'm not scared of it.

I can't possibly see myself setting goals for the new R or M. Wondering if that comes with time? I'm actualy just really enjoying my newfound respect and love for myself. GAL and letting go is liberating once you fully embrace it.

[~ kd ~]

Yes, dark helps remove us from environments which are distressing to us. Combine that with GAL so our mind does not dwell on the negative and we find ourselves (at least eventually) becoming happier. The mind would rather not focus on negative.

Again, remember to use dark and GAL not as a way to avoid the negative, rather to create the positive. It might seem like semantics. It is different in that we have our mind focused on positive (GAL) rather than negative (avoid hurt / pain).

When our spouses are involved with others in EA / PA ways, that relationship can often transpose to their behaviour with us. They distance when the OP is around and are focused on the OP. Their behaviour is based on that context. If they are happy with that R, they seem to relate to us in positive ways and when their R is not so good, that negativity can transfer to us. When the OP is not around and they are focused on us, they might begin to remember the past, negative R with us and they may start to project on us, again.

So when there is an OP, often their behaviour and relationship with us is tainted with the EA / PA relationship and has less to do about us.

Do try to stay out of his mind. What I mean is, you indicate you believe he knows how you feel. The reality could be far from what you believe. His feelings might be, now that you are no longer expressing your feelings to him and are dark, he may actually feel that you are moved on and no longer feel anything for him or have any desires or hopes for the M or R between the two of you.

He can only come to solid conclusions based on his experience of you. What might your behaviours be telling him?

As far as setting goals for the new R or M... that will come with time, yes. How long will be entirely up to you. There may actually be nothing that comes to you as the status quo will be all it ever will be. This is your starting point. You could choose less or more and take steps towards that in time... or you can just let it be...

What do you think you MIGHT want in the future?

[strongerthanever]

KD,

What might my actions be telling him?[/b
]-That I am done with this situation. I deserve better (than his 6 months of waffeling) and I am not scared anymore to let go. That I love myself enough to let go of an unhealthy situation. That because I love myself I hold myself to a higher standard-I still treat him with the upmost respect and fuffil my responsibilities DESPITE his continous negative actions. That I am capable of being completly happy on my own.

[b]What do you think you might want in the future?
-My future focus right now is on me and my girls. I don't think about H or another possible R. It is way too early for that (another R), I have some serious healing that needs to happen first.
-Focusing on rebuilding my life/future I have established goals that I am happily persuing...

1. Gain back the 20 pounds I lost post role reversal
1. Cook regular meals like I use to
2. Bring healthy snacks with me
3. Increase physical activity to increase hunger
4. Drinking protein shakes (they can be yummy!)
2. Improve over all health
1. IC/pastoral suport
2. Taking vitamins
3. Going for walks when I feel down, talk with family
4. Started cardio kickboxing and zumba
5. Drinking way more water
3. Regain self worth
1. joined church
2. volunteer in community with my church
3. Full time student
4.*practice unwaivering forgivness & love, while releasing
5. Did the 2012 relay for life w/ D2/3!
6. plan bi-weekly solo adventures to new places
7. new haircut/clothes for me
8. nuture healthy relationships w/ friends
4. Upcoming goals
1. Upcoming white water rafting trip in July
2. Enroll d 2/3 in gymnastics or dance
3. plan outing with dif friend every month
4. darker hair color in July
5. plan trip to visit my family

Yup, it is all about me. The love that I had been wanting to give to H all this time, and been so desperatly wanting to receive from H is there, just kinda floating out there. As I look to my future I'm wrapping it around myself and focusing it inward, like a big emotonial snuggi I'm learning that I alone can fill my emotionial needs and that it is unhealthy to expect others to do it for me.

[strongerthanever]

wow that came out looking jacked up and confusing, sry if it makes for a hard read