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#2180519 08/24/11 11:53 AM
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tpc1977 Offline OP
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New thread since the other is getting over 100 posts.

It was inevitable. Since we were flying high, there was bound to be some turbulence.

All day I could since something in my wife's voice and attitude. I wasn't going to press it because I knew where it would go. In the past I would push and push until she exploded and bashed me left and right with everything I've done wrong, doing wrong, and will do wrong. I would try and stand my ground and fight back. Eventually, we would both give up and try to get over it. Nothing was settled, however. We never really worked things out or tried to find a solution. It just ended and we tried to forget it.

Here recently though the way she's been arguing has become almost toxic. She throws up this wall and becomes really infantile. It's a whole new things that I've never seen from her until last year sometime. Her looks, her attitude, her voice, the whole nine. It's so different and so corrosive. And it's like I have to find a new way to battle it.

Last night was a prime example. I kept asking her to talk to me but I wasn't being real pushy. I just wanted to get things out in the open and find out what she's feeling so it wouldn't building and torment her. When we finally started talking she started telling me that I NEVER showed her that I loved her. My words were paper thin and meant nothing (or that's what I gathered). She told me that I only thought about my needs and not hers and nothing has changed in all the years of our marriage. When I tried to bring up examples of how I'm trying to show her she basically told me that none of it happened. When I gave her specific examples of things I had done she denied them or told me I was just trying to keep score.

I was really trying to keep cool, speak soft, speak gentle, but speak with a firmness. Every so often, however, I would lose it but quickly try to get back to where I needed to be. Her attitude was really pulling me in. It was tough. Several times I told her I didn't want this argument to go this way and we weren't going to gain anything by bickering and blaming and being petty. Then she'd argue that I was acting like I was something special because of it. I felt hopeless - just really hopeless.

Her walls were getting higher. Her defenses were up and though somewhat weak she would hit me over and over and over with the same useless things and shatter any of my progress.

"You NEVER do anything to make me feel good."

"You ALWAYS think only about you."

"You will NEVER change."

At one point in our quietness, after she settled down and I didn't feel like bickering, I would ask her to stop with the globalizing remarks and telling me that I NEVER will or ALWAYS have. She blew up and told me she never said it. I mean, it was just a few minutes prior she was telling me that throughout our entire marriage that I was a certain way. Now she's denying that she even said it.

And you know what? I honestly think she can't remember much of what she says after she says it. Several times in the past after one of these tumultuous arguments she would forget most of what she said. She would just remember us fighting and that she was in a certain mood that brought it on. She has this glazed look when we start fights like this. During most of the day I can see it in her face and after the battle begins she almost puts on a Mr. Hyde complex. It's really freaky.

In the end I told her that I understood a lot of what she said. She was crying by this time - it always happens now. I also told her several times that I truly loved her and that when she has issues that hurt her I want to help resolve them. When those things are about me I want them to become top of my list and work on fixing them. She wasn't really listening and it was getting late. Slowly, I started closing the house down. One child was at a friends staying the night and our oldest wasn't home yet. I asked her if she would like to go to bed and I would love to hold her. She said no and that she was going to wait up for our oldest.

I walked over to her and kissed her gently on the head and told her that I loved her. She was sobbing with her face in the couch pillow with a blanket wrapped around her. I walked into our room and closed the door. Outside the room I could hear her start crying a little louder. So I walked back out and asked her if I could do anything to help and that I didn't like her alone out here. She said, "I'm alone all the time anyways so what's the big deal."

I asked her if she would mind if I picker her up and carried her to the room so I could lay with her and comfort her. She didn't respond. I put my left arm under her legs and asked her to place her arm around my neck so I could lift her. She did and when I lifted her up my back cracked like I was some ninety year old man. And it hurt like the dickens. My wife is a petite lady but I'm petite too. It was almost comical as I did my best to take her through the door into our room. I accidentally slammed her into a shelf, then I banged my elbow into the door frame. Finally I got her in bed and snuggled with her. She was full-on sobbing and huffing by this time, shaking the whole bed. Every time I started drifting off she would start again. Eventually though, she started warming up to me and we held hands and she draped a leg over me. I think I got 4 hours of sleep. I feel like hell.

One thing though that got me about last night. Paranoia again, I think. She was going to the bathroom a lot to pee. Maybe she had something to drink and it helped to bring this on or she's getting ready to have her period. I've noticed several times in the past that her moods really shift a few weeks before she starts. More now than I've seen in the past.

Age?

Pre-menopausal?

Drinking?

a Combination?

I don't know. All I do know is that when these things hit they hit real hard and can be real nasty. Sometimes it feels like my love bank has been completely emptied out and I have to start from square one again. And that really sux.

(sorry for the length, poor sentence structure, and misspelling. I can't focus too well this morning.)


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
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MHL Offline
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Hey TPC,

First, you guys could have never had any marital problems previously and this sort of thing will happen and your feelings and hers would be the same.

This is where marital problems start........you have to change what you are doing and the way you look at things, otherwise you will end up back in a crisis.

You have basically come through the storm and you have identified many things about you that you need to change and have changed....

Right????

You have done alot of work......

You have been a faithful, forgiving, compassionate husband....

You are showing your W love.....

You should not have to "work" on YOU anymore........WRONG

Now is the time to do things differently than before......

yes you have all this knowledge and you understand YOU and YOUR W better......

However you still need to put it in to practice......

You still need to "Work" on being a better husband......

ALWAYS.........it never ends.

Originally Posted By: tpc1977

I kept asking her to talk to me but I wasn't being real pushy. I just wanted to get things out in the open and find out what she's feeling so it wouldn't building and torment her.


I am going to hit you with a 2x4 here......(that is what we do to each other because we like you smile )

That up there in the bold.........

That is the problem.........that is what needs to change.

You pressed her because of what you wanted.....right????

Did you need to acknowledge that you notice that something is not right with her?????

certainly,

that is what she was communicating with her behavior.

However, you wanted to "get it out into the open" for you not for her.

Yes, you wanted to avoid a "marital" problem......

But that was only because YOU did not want the uncomfortable crap that goes along with the problem........that is all about you and what you want and your feelings.

Lets think of your W for a moment........

While her form of communication is not ideal, (pouting, moody, etc) , it is communication none the less......right????

Women are wired this way......they expect us to "mindread" them and their feelings and cousrse correct what we are doing wrong that is pissing them off.......right?

SUX.....but that ain't never gonna change brother......so get over it...........we have to start doing something different.

It does not matter what happened.......or whether what she says is true or not........

WHAT MATTERS is

HOW SHE FEELS

That is what you are missing........you see when you press and she finally opens up........you try to point out in a very logical, smart, court like way that she should NOT feel the way she is feeling.

It may make sense, you could ask 100 reasonable people if they agree with YOUR logic and they all agree......but at the end of the day........

IT DOES NOT CHANGE THE WAY YOUR W FEELS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STOP TRYING TO FIX HER FEELINGS........there is nothing wrong with them........

and

When you try you are in essence telling her that she should not feel that way.

That is why she was crying last night......that is why she gets confused.......that may be one of the reasons she turns to substance abuse........(sorry if that stings.)

Don't feel bad this could have started way before you came along.

She may understand your logic but can't reconcile her feelings and then she feels like there is something wrong with her. Try as hard as she may to change her feelings.......she can't and then the hopelessness sets in...........you know the rest of the story.

Women really just want to be understood.

They want their feelings validated.

They want to be able to share their feelings without judgement or being told how to change their feelings.

This is why affairs happen, someone else starts to listen without judgement.....and it is easy.......they have no dog in the fight.

The other thing that you need to understand is that your "need" to snuggle and be close is the absolute last thing that she feels like doing during these times.

The paradoxical thing is that it is the thing that reassures you that everything is okay........so therefore it would work for her.........right??????

WRONG!!!!!

I would highly recomend reading 2 books...........

I don't think MWD would mind that I recomend these to you, be aware that she also has a series called "keeping Love Alive" also.......I have not read that yet.

I have read the 2 I am going to recomend, one of which MWD has put in her bibliography......they both say very similar things.

The first is "How to Improve Your Marriage without Talking About It" by Steven Stonsy and Patricia Love.

I think this book does a great job of pointing out exactly what you dealt with last night and how to approach it differently. They also discuss how men and women are wired differently.....once you understand the differences you will be able to modify the way you do and say things.

The other book I recomend is "Love and Respect" by Emerson Eggerichs. This is a Christian based book and will help you understand from a biblical perspective how you should treat your W. You will see God's plan for marriage and the relationship that YOU should foster between YOU and your W.

If I were going to give you some short term advice for the time being moving forward, I would give you the advice that was given to me by Mach1......

When you communicate with your W, try to take everything "you want" out of your communication. Think only of her needs, her wants and her feelings........this is hard to do but when you do it..........watch her reaction.

It happened for me...........it was profound.

Hope this helps.

Cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
MHL #2180612 08/24/11 06:17 PM
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tpc1977 Offline OP
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Thank you so much.

You made a lot of sense and I totally see where you are coming from. I wanted to put out the fires last night for me. It had nothing to do with her and I'm ashamed of that.

Thanks for the 2x4s. And the book recommendations. I love reading and these will be so helpful.

Again. Thank you.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
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Hey TPC,

How was the weekend?


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
MHL #2182017 08/29/11 05:20 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 197
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tpc1977 Offline OP
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Pretty good weekend. Just your normal, every family-type weekend. High School football Friday. Cookout/Birthday party Saturday. Church (first time in a long time) Sunday.

It's the week days that I'm struggling with. The kids are back at school and that leaves my wife home alone dealing with things by herself. She's began to struggle with things again. Being home alone makes it worse, I think.

I try to stay connect with her and help her as much as I can without being pushy or overbearing. What I need to do is realize that I need to help her for her and not for myself. This has been a problem of the past - as you probably know. And I can see it coming back to me.

I worry that she'll fall back into the trap of talking to this guy again on the phone or computer if she gets real down and real bored. So I want to be at her and talk to her all the time. But I'm not. I'm really trying to give her the space she needs to learn how to deal with these things. I always tell her to call me whenever and for whatever and I'll stop what I'm doing to listen and talk.

The next few weeks may be tough as we transition from summer, when the kids were there to keep her occupied, to the fall where she'll be home alone.

Any suggestions to help me and to help her?


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
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MHL Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,350
Hey TPC,
Glad you had a good weekend!!

You can support her as she works through and fixes her own problems.

however, you can not fix HER problems for her.

She has to do that and you have to be strong enough to let her do it for herself.

You are tying YOUR happiness to her success at overcoming HER problems.............

SO, talk that one out.......

You support her, you love her, you treat her in the manner that God would perscribe for any husband to treat his wife......

and she still fails...........falls of the wagon, contacts the OM, finds a new OM....etc, etc, etc.

then what?????

Your fear is that you will not be happy unless someone else does or does not do something.

that does not sound very healthy to me??????? how bout you????

Be the MAN that she won't want to loose.

Be the MAN that she will want to be a better woman for.

It could be that she does not want to come to you for support in certain areas of her life........all you can do is offer your support and make sure you offer it in the way she wants it not in the way you want to deliver it.



Don't try to make her live up to YOUR expectations of HER......she will never meet them and you will come off as the rescuer to which she will run from when she feels that she can not live up to those expectations.

The other thing to do is PRAY for her, but make sure to pray for her and not what you want from her or what you want her to be.

I think that the best way for you to help her is becoming a better you.......seek to understand yourself better......you have identified the behaviors in yourself that you either have changed or are trying to change........

Seek to understand WHY were doing or not doing things before.+

Understanding the WHY's will speed the changes and make them more permanent and less likely for you to fall back into old ways. Those books that I recomended were good. I can give you others if you are a voracious reader.........I read a ton of material during the storm.......

What I found was a better understanding of ME and why I did the things I did in my marriage.

Hope this helps

Cheers


Formerly "missherlove"

Me49 XW49
M17 T19
S16 D20

Expose yourself to your deepest fear; after that, fear has no power, and the fear of freedom shrinks and vanishes. You are free.

~Jim Morrison
MHL #2182574 08/31/11 05:59 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
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tpc1977 Offline OP
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Thank you. I take all of this to heart. Really.
You guys are so helpful. I don't know what I'd do without you all.

An update:

She finally got a little job to help keep her busy a few days of the week but not take away from her other duties. She's pretty excited. And I'm excited for her.


Me:42
W:43
M:03/08/98
SD17, D13
Found out about affair:12/16/10
Found out again: 06/22/12
Split: 06/22/12

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