Snodderly left a wonderful link to her posts in regards to an MLCer friend she had years ago. Thank you Snodderly for sharing that with us. Wow, that was such an eye opener for me, as to the turmoil this man went though. Also it was a comfort to me because I saw some characteristics in her friend that I do see in XH.
I wanted to start a thread about the MLCers and certain changes that might be noted that may signal their "descent to inevitable crash and burn", or AKA hitting rock bottom as we say.
I think this could be happening with XH....the beginning that is. Whether he truly crashes and hits reality hard, well it depends on how well he can stay in denial at this point guess. But on the other hand, we all know that the trip through the tunnel can and will happen to some of the MLCers in our lives. I would like to open up on what we can expect from the MLCers during this time, in order to better prepare ourselves for the next cycle.
You know I've felt kinda silly at times coming here to the boards now that Im 4 months "freshly divorced" and a free woman. But honestly, in my experience, these MLCers never really do let go. Maybe temporarily, but they don't. Now that the fog has cleared for me (but the sting still there) I can objectively look back at this last year and see that XH really has hung on....with claws out! Back to the Feral Cat scenario... !!! We talk about us having to detach, but really do these MLCers ever really detatch in a healthy way? It sure doesn't look like it, at least in my sitch.
To open things up, I've gathered some interesting facts over time. Knowing XH the way I do, and the facts I know, I think reality is hitting XH in the head now....and of course he's angry so I still get spew.
Ok... So Ex is the main bread winner not only for himself, his OW, and his children and ex wife.
He blew thousands of dollars duing major replay stage and has nothing to fall back on.
His wages are attached for child and spousal support, so his paychecks are much less than he's used to.
He now relays the message often to the girls, that their cell phones may be turned off and the netflix access may be shut off because he may not be able to pay the bill. I wouldn't be suprised thathe hopes this will get back to me in hopes I will offer to pay it. Not gonna happen considering he makes double my wages, I can't afford it, and I don't feel sorry for someone that hides a substantial amount of money under his family's nose just to serve himself. Time to wake up to reality.
OW works part time but apparently isn't helping with much or I would think this wouldn't be an issue. Ow still purposely stays home everytime XH takes the girls outside the house to do something or go somewhere. This is going on 8 months now? Obviously she has no iterest in becoming a blended family, and I half way wonder if she's lining someone up to be her next bread winner. XH can't blow money on her anymore, cause he blew it trying to keep it from me.
A month ago he completely went bezerk and tried to send the police over to my house over D12's ipod touch missing. I was then insulted relentlessly for not doing what I should've done and call the police myself, therefore he had to do something because I wasn't doing it.
XH over time seems to be getting a little relentless with the power and control issues. WE live on the West Coast. D12 wanted to have a beach party for her birthday next week. XH told her is was not a good idea because we could get radiation from debris being washed up from Japan!
D12 told me that when they take walks, he warns the girls not to pick up bird feathers because they could get rabies.
It was relayed to me that Xh feels he can't take his camping trip with the girls because the girls and I have alot of other things going on this month, and he just doesn't know what to do for his birthday or camping now.
Overall I have a sense that reality is showing it's ugly face to XH. This is good.
At the same time...Im wondering "what's next with XH"?
It's been my experience that they do not let go in a healthy way. They also act from fear from what I've seen and heard and learned. Hard to imagine, but to them fear is very real.
It doesn't seem odd to me that he is passing his fears on to his girls. Likely seems normal, protective and fatherly to him. To an outsider, we wonder if he is walking down the street talking to himself and the aliens
What's next? Could be anything. I wouldn't worry about it. Be still and you will know
AJ
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter" MLK Put the glass down... "Yesterday I was clever so I wanted to change the world Today I am wise, so I am changing myself."
Kimmerz, There are a number of things I see going on w/your xh:
1. He wants control and how best to keep that control than to threaten the cutting of the cell serivce as well as the other things that he pays for? He wants to feel like the "white knight" as well as a victim in all of this. I wouldn't offer to pay one thing...it's control and manipulation.
2. Paranoia is very strong during mlc. OCD may become stronger during this time as well. I'm going to assume he's not washing his hands a thousand times a day or your girls would have said something about it.
I honestly do not think he's any where near hitting bottom. He's got a long way to go and if the ow is still in the picture, she is the one that is still helping to hold him together. Until he loses everything, he will not hit bottom.
Reassure your girls about everything. You do not want them walking around and being afraid to do or try new things in life.
Hang in there!
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Hey Kimmer... are you wanting to get into discussion about how a MLCer transitions from replay to depression? Just curious. I've always wondered how one would know that, myself... Although from what I've read and seen, as it's stated, it's not necessarily linear so replay and anger and denial can be seen in further stages... so... IDK...
Anyhow, I wanted to put something out there that kml pointed out regarding your H's apparent OCD / paranoia / WTF???
My W is doing things now that she never did prior to 2 years ago... things like driving a big RV on a crowded, 2 lane highway... going places and doing things such as getting dirty on a farm or going bumming around in a bush or going to concerts she'd not have gone to (IMHO), etc, etc... for all I know she's pumping her own gas and using public washrooms without wiping the seat...
MLCers often do complete opposites of what they've done before... was your H like that "before" his apparent MLC, regarding radiation at the beach or rabies from feathers?
Kimmers H is freaking out in my sitch too. More and more people are just telling me he is crazy! I think the more they lose control the more they freak out!!
AT BD: WH 41, J 43; Bomb 2/5/2012 Two kids, one dog D Final 6/18/14 J marries OW 1/24/15 "No matter where you go, there you are"
Great to hear from you! And thanks for chiming in!
KML....yes Xh was a tad OCD...but it would kind of come in waves. My favorite one was making the BBq grill surgically clean before we could ever BBq on it. It was to be soaked in 409 for hours. Washed off. Then scrubbed with and SOS pad in hot soapy water. Then rinsed off. Then after that it was to be sprayed down with bleach. Then after it was rinsed and thoroughly drived with a towel, then it was ok to put in on the BBq and light it on fire. And I was the one that did that a few times for him.
He was also strange about certain messes. He would create many of them but acted as if he was "above" cleaning it. Actually as time went on I realized he was really scared about certain germs more than anything. But I don't think he'd verbalize it because he knew I would think something was weird. He used to be a slob but became and neat freak after he moved out.
AJM.....thanks for that insight. I never stopped to think that he would pass on his fears to the girls, it only being natural and fatherly to him. I guess we all pass our fears down to our kids whether we want to or not. I know I've done that from time to time, but I also embrace my girls are individuals, and I want to teach them to be self sufficient and self confident.
Snodderly....Oh boy howdy he's on a power trip, that's for sure. Hells bells Im not paying for cell phones for the girls, I can't afford it. Their cell phones and the netflix account was the only thing he agreed to keep paying after he moved out. I forgot that hitting rock bottom with OP isn't likely. I do reassure the girls when they tell me such things. Today D9 cut the bottom of her foot. It was pretty traumatic for her because she was scared to death she'd have to go back to the hospital! It was just a small cut and I took care of it just fine. D9 finally admitted the sight of blood terrfies her. About an hour later XH literally starts blowing up the girls phones. They got appx 15 texts from him on each of their phones saying "Hi". I asked D9 if she told her Dad about her foot. Her response " no because if I do he won't leave it alone and I will never hear the end of it". My D12 says to me " Dad is demanding attention because we haven't text him in a few days". Well glory be people, the man has barely text his own kids in 3 days? WTH happened to phone calls to your children?
Kaffe....Well I guess I was wanting to know the path from replay to depression, but you know I guess it isn't really linear when I think about it. See the way I remember it, XH has gone through EVERY STAGE these past few years EXCEPT replay. Is that possible? Depression...oh yes. Withdrawal...He's been withdrawn for 2 years up until he moved ou. Denial...Yep. He thinks he's in good shape, yet couldn't barely walk after work. And why oh why guys...Why do the guys start shaving their private parts? Is this part of replay, denial, or just having an affair? Is it to make them look bigger? That was another weird "ocd" sort of thing was him shaving himself and locking the bathroom doors.
In regards to him being opposite, the only thing that's opposite of him now is that he's such a hands on father, which is good. The radiation from Japan and rampid rabies from bird feathers is more of an excerbation of his normal OCD, which would come in waves. I swear at times he seems more bi polar than anything. But it sometimes seems like he teeters from being a great involved father, to crossing over in getting a tad controlling. However unless that proves to be a serious problem with the girls down the road, I will not interfere. I stand firm in that their relationship with him is theirs ad theirs alone. I will not step in unless it's very necessary. I don't think Xh felt the same way about my relationship with the girls, but I did set him straight on that...at least I hope I did.
The other that's opposite is the spew. He never in all our days together, good and bad, did he EVER speak to me in such a tone, with such venom and such hatred as he does now. And another thing that's opposite is him pursuing that damn "BFF's" for so long. I mean the man was willing to do all these things for me in between venomous spew, and then telling me he was sorry I didn't want to be friends?
meh... The scripts are the same but the behaviours can be sooooo different...
My W does many opposites yet does many exaggerations, as well. I joke about the bathroom seat, because she surely has OCD tendencies, her more recent was a rant at the school regarding lice as my D9 had 4 cases of it last school year. Basically wanting the school to go back to a no nit policy. Her anxiety has been through the roof on some things... yet... she can drive a 27' RV on a two lane highway with no shoulders at highway speeds... when she couldn't drive on a 4 lane, divided highway in a car when the wind was lightly drifting snow across it.
But in regards to transitioning from replay to depression...
HB described the visible symptoms of depression as follows: "They will be on the verge of tears, most of the time, pacing the floor, losing sleep, afraid of the dark-or maybe what's in it; unable to escape negative thoughts, cutting themselves down in word and action. Extreme guilt may compound this stage, and there is so much pressure, they become forgetful, irritable, want to be left alone, somewhat argumentative, sometimes unresponsive-want to take long drives, sit looking out the window-their silences are long and painful, as they don't want to talk about it preferring instead to think and brood."
I think it might be easier for the LBS of co-habiting spouses to observe the depression. Those who aren't, I suppose might see it as further distancing (if they aren't leaning towards or are the "Vanisher" types) and perhaps back to that empty stare... expressionless faces... or even wild mood swings...
Hmmm... Ok well what HB described is what XH was like the last month and a half he was here. When he said he needed to leave because he felt like he was losing his mind, I flat out believed him because he was acting very bizarre like that. It seemed to carry out into him being alone for his month and a half.
*****I just went through and re read this. Sorry guys this is a big Vent coming on here.... his behavior has just been so crazy!
It was horrible. He couldn't sleep but a few hours every night. I could feel his pulse through the sheets. He would come home for lunch and not eat but sit at his desk and close his eyes and nap, totally silent. He normally would eat and plug into his video game with head phones on. Normally he'd socialize with us. But then as he became angry, other times he wouldn't say a word and walk out and leave. Other times he'd say good by an hug the kids.
The last few weeks he was angry, haughty and arrogant. Then when he told me he was unhappy he decided to rev up the sex life. That was nice for a week. Then after that he fell silent again looking as if he had lost his best friend. Guess he knew he was about to because then he told me he had to leave because he thought he was going crazy. He said couldn't figure out if it was him, if it was me or if it was something else, but figured it was him.He said he didn't know if it would take 2 days, 2 weeks, 2 months or 2 years to figure himself out. Then he asked me if he should get a motel or an apartment. He then fell into tears, just sobbing about what a failure he was and that he failed me and the kids and he just couldn't do it anymore, and that he tried as hard as he could. At the time I couldn't tell what he was trying to tell me. I couldn't figure out if he was saying he was leaving for good and he was sorry about it, or that he just felt like a flat out failure...but for what I didn't know! I was just blown away but tried hard to keep it together. My mind was spinning. Then after a while when we were in the bedroom talking he fell into tears again, rocking himself back and forth talking about what a failure he was, and he knew he needed psychiatric help but he had to go and find his "happy". When I mentioned us getting help together I got the " it's too late" line. He calmed down and then all the sudden his attitude changed after I agreed he needed to leave. It changed almost like a kid that throws a tantrum to get his way. All the sudden he was happy. Was this all a show just to get me to agree to leave instead of him walking out?
Two nights later he tore into me verbally by text like he had never done before in our lives together. The next day he asked me out for Mother's Day Dinner because he'd "never leave a friend alone on Mother's day". On Mother's Day he called his mom and told her he was divorcing me! 3 days later he was wanting my help in him getting a certain apartment. During the next 2-3 weeks moved out most of his stuff in the house but was texting me constantly. Spew here, BFF there. Then he turned around and invited me and the kids to his apartment for dinner.
Ok Im rambling here... Im just saying his behavior is so bizarre, I truly wonder if he's bi polar! The girls say he goes through spurts of talking alot, and they can't get a word in edgewise, then after a few weeks he slows down and doesn't say much.
I don't know guys...Im still in relationship autopsy but able to do it objectively now. His moods still swing and the girls are now noticing it and are expressing frustration with the OCD stuff. I guess he's now prone to mean joking with D12 now. As much as I had hoped I didn't have to deal with his antics anymore, when the girls come home frustrated and wondering why the heck he does certain things, I can't ignore that! I need to listen to them and comfort them without coming across as judgmental or critical towards him, but be truthful at the same time.
Oh another thing he's pulled lately...he didn't allow D9 to bring home a mathbook they purchased at the library book sale because he felt our cats would just ruin it so it has to stay at his house. Now D9 is saying she's going to start sneaking stuff home in her back pack! D9 is upset because she does her homework here at home most of the week during school and wants to study it here.
Do I encourage the girls to assert themselves with him? that's the only thing I know to do because if I step in cetainly it's nothing but another venom spewing fight coming on...of course depending on what mood he's in.
!!! We talk about us having to detach, but really do these MLCers ever really detatch in a healthy way? It sure doesn't look like it, at least in my sitch. 
