I can't move forward and it's driving me nuts

[AntoniaB]

I'm starting a new thread because my feeling of being stuck has persisted now for a month or more. I'll try to be brief and just am here to ask for advice.

XH and I are not in any contact at all.

My psychiatrist and family and friends have all agreed (and I agree too) that my biggest problem is not being able to visualize my future with anyone but my XH, and since he's unavailable entirely, and because he did so much damage and has no remorse, it seems totally pointless to be holding out for him. So I move on with my life. I agree with that.

I have moved on in every way and am doing some great things and taking care of myself. But my connection to him seems unbreakable. It doesn't matter that I don't "need" him anymore to rescue me. It doesn't matter that I am now supporting myself in every way and have a good life. I am still deeply irrevocably connected to him and still love him despite everything. I love the him I knew, of course, as I don't know him at all now nor do I have any contact with him, and friends have stopped telling me anything about him. It's like he does not exist at all.

My doctor told me that until I can learn that there are other fish in the sea, I won't break this tie to him and I'll be stuck. So on her recommendation, I joined eharmony for 3 months. My subscription is about to renew and I want to cancel it. I have been matched with 200 men at least. I have to FORCE myself to interact with them. I don't find any of them attractive at all, physically, as I'm sure I'm looking for one who looks like XH. I find some compatible, yes. So I've gone on 2 dates with guys who probably are "right" for me in more ways that XH and I were for one another.

But I feel nothing. I treat the date like I'm just meeting a new colleague at work. I have good conversation and I laugh. Then on my way home, I feel like I have betrayed my marriage and my XH. All I've done is TALK.

I feel very stuck. I feel like I want to enjoy life, and enjoying life certainly means having romantic fun relationships and dates. I also feel like I am sabotaging myself from doing this, and for what? To pine for and think about a man who is gone, who did the most unimaginable thing to me. Who burned EVERY bridge to me and my family and friends. And I know that if he came back, that he is NOT good for me, because there are tons of ways I never grew or cared for myself in that marriage that I do now. I think in many ways we brought out the worst in each other.

But I can't get him out of my head, and I am sick of it, and what in the heck is the point? What is the point of having a finite amount of time on this earth and having this absurd level of connection to someone that is unbreakable when he has clearly moved on?

I think part of the problem is that in the divorce, I got everything (I paid for it, but I got it). I am in OUR house, on OUR land, where EVERY item in the house was OURS but for some things I've bought since. What does he have? A handful of pics in a new apt. He has virtually nothing to remind him of our life. I have it all. Sure I've put everything with his face on it away, or even pics of places we've been. I've rearranged my house a hundred times, I've painted, etc. But he's still "here." And I know these are just things, he's not in them, he's in my HEAD. And because he's in my head, I can't move on.

I feel like I've regressed a major amount to where I'm back to thinking of him almost all the time. And I'm back in depression, and I'm back in that area where I think I need to give up and that scares me.

I am trying SO hard to move on and I can't. And I don't understand the point of carrying this torch for a "dead" man, and I feel convinced I will carry it for the rest of my life.

So...please advise me what to do.

[25yearsmlc]

Antonia,

You are so articulate!

Unfortunately I cannot reply in full at this time but wanted to touch base and "track" the thread. You will get some good advice I'm sure.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but some time ago, didn't you post a letter FROM your h to you?

If I recall correctly, it was bittersweet "goodbye for now" letter, in which he explained his reasons and hopes for the break. That you'd both benefit and that he "had" to do it.

You also said he made valid points. You seemed to gain some clarity from it.

Can you read it again and see if any of it rings true or hollow now?
Can you repost it?

Regardless, you are facing the dilemma of a widow, in effect. Your h, the man you knew OR THOUGHT YOU DID...is gone from your life.

We all have to wonder that very thing--Were we blind to the "real them"? OR did they simply change dramatically?...

I think both happen in life.

But you are too smart to have been fooled for long.

IMO, your h changed.

Regardless, the old h is gone and there is, as you said, no reason to expect the old h to return. Plus, even if he did, you say too much damage has been done anyhow.

Which means you are, in effect, a widow.

Let that sink in.

Give it time...and thought...for real.

And then see if looking at it that way, yields fruit with some forward movment.

(And see if you can find that old letter!)

Hang in there.

The first step to getting unstuck is knowing it's all up to you.

It'll happen. You will move forward. You don't have a choice...


((( )))

[crushednstuck]

Antonia, I read your post and feel much of the same. I, too have vascilated between the hope and optimism of a new life and the despair resulting from a seemingly unbreakable bind to my W. My "handle" has really summed up my thoughts for a while. The financial impact has really yet to be felt as we are still married and just running up credit cards to finance her lifestyle.

The notion of being stuck is always recurring as I attempt to move forward. I am aware of many friends who have women they want to introduce to me. But, I feel as though any conversation which could lead me away from focus on my M is a distraction. Contrast this feeling with two years of loneliness and lack of companionship and we are rightfully depressed.

I have reconnected with friends and made new ones, but there's nothing like the security of M or a relationship which offers that comfort. I think until we are capable of truly letting go, only then will we have a chance at redemption. With our spouses or without.

[AntoniaB]

Thanks 25 years and crushednstuck! It helps to hear from both of you.

I looked back and found he wrote me two "explanatory" emails that I think you were referring to:

#1: Thank you for your kind words. I really hope that you have come to a place where you are at peace with what has befallen you. I do not deserve such kindness but it does make me feel better to hear you speak this way.

I realize now more than ever that I did a horrible, horrible thing to you both times that I walked out. I am truly sorry for handling things the way that I did. I'm not making excuses for myself but to use your poem at as metaphor, a drowning person will do whatever thay have to to get to the surface. A drowning person is not thinking about anything but survival.

I have regrets about the way our marriage ended but I don't know that it could have happened any other way. I wasn't thinking rationally and nothing you could have said would have gotten through to me.

This next part is tricky. I don't want to upset you. Just as you feel you are in a good place NOW, I am feeling the same way. I am not "steering the ship" as you say but I feel like I have a say it where it is going. To be honest sometimes that is a scary feeling. I'm not used to having to decide where I want to go but I least now I've come to feel like I am responsible for the things that happen in my life. I feel clear. I feel good.

I'm not going to say anymore but rest assured that I have the same well wishes for your future and fond memories of our past as well. I hope a time will come where we can be in contact with each other and not find it upestting for either one of us."


This was our last conversation face to face:

" He said several times that he has doubts all the time. But that she is "good for him" and calls him on his flaws. I said "I did too." He said "but I had shown you a new side of who I wanted to be when I left the first time and you wouldn't accept it." I said this was true. He said "so I came back and tried to just be the old guy I was, and to be perfect for you, until I couldn't do it anymore. Then I just wanted to give up. But I wasn't going to leave you. I didn't have the guts. I didn't want to be the bad guy. So I tried to make you hate me. My anger and rage and my way of treating you, I was trying to make you kick me out. I thought it was the only way. But you wouldn't do it."

I said "you had to know I wouldnt'." He said, "I didnt' know it at first. I thought I could make you hate me enough to kick me out. But you didn't."

And I said "and you resented me for that."

He said "No I didn't resent you. I just wanted out."

I said "why did you want out?" He said "I felt trapped. I felt like I didn't have feelings of love for you and I didn't know what to do. Then I met her and I was powerfully attracted to her. Other women didn't exist in my world when things were good between us. When they weren't, I noticed one."

I said "but you could have said something. You could have said you weren't feeling love for me. You could have said we have a serious problem. We need help."

He said "I didn't want to try." I said "why?" He said "because I didn't want to do the work to try because I didnt' think the outcome would be any different. I didn't think things would ever change."

I said "but when you kissed her and confessed, and I said I'd still take you back if we just went to counseling and you stopped seeing her, you still bailed. Why?"

He said "because you had never shown the ability to forgive me last year when I left the first time (this is true, a week or so before he kissed her I had said I hadn't fully forgiven him and was still harboring anger) and I figured that you would say it but it would never happen."

So I said "so you were afraid you'd lose her if you tried with me, and you might lose me anyway, so you hedged your bets and tried with her instead as she was more of a sure thing."

He said "no. she is less of a sure thing. You were much more the sure thing. I chose her because I have never gambled in my life. I took a gamble. I was trying to do the opposite of what I always do. I plan. I think of the future. I chose to stop doing that. That's why I chose her."

So with that "settled", I asked about the anger. I said "now that you're out of the marriage, has your anger and such gone away." He said "no." I said "but you blamed our marriage." He said "I know." I said "and it's still there." And he said "at times." I said "where does the anger come from?" He said "any time I don't feel in control of my life."

He says that OW has seen the anger several times. He says he feels he can recognize when it's coming on and keep it in check sometimes. I said "you have two types of anger: anger towards yourself and anger towards your partner. Has she seen anger towards her?" He said "not really." I said "don't you think she will?" He said "I recognize when it comes on and I stop it."

I said "doesnt' this still make you a pleaser". He said "I'm working on that." "How?" I said. "I just am," he said.

I said "are you going to regress (because he is maintaining that he is better now)?" He said "I don't know."

He said he is happy with her and she is good for him. He said he isn't happy with the situation and has regrets. He said he feels horrible many times about what he did and then his brain tells him that's the cowards' way, living in fear, and that he needs to get past those feelings and live in the present and not in the past or let the past affect his present.

He said that many times other men tell him he should be happy he is divorcing and try to run me down, and he says "I don't understand these people. This was a failure. I'm not happy about it." He said that he has no more friends than before, that he has only her and two other women friends from before. He said he doesnt' want more friends, particularly guy friends, because they are rude and obnoxious and say insensitive things about divorce. I said "you're putting all your eggs in one basket--one person." He said "yes." I said "and isn't that what got us both into this mess?" He said "that's who I am."

There was a final email from him where he said that he was aware that he realized he could have started his own Greek tragedy if this all fell apart on him but he was taking that chance, and that he didn't regret the years with me and that most were happy.

So I don't know what this tells me in looking over it now, other than that in a way I couldn't have stopped anything once that affair began, but I do feel like I am the architect of the demise of my marriage--at least, I was co-architect. I had very high standards for him that I would not relax when he went into MLC, and I feel like my own ignorance or lack of personal growth or whatever created the environment where he felt trapped. Sure he had a choice to make, and he chose the immoral path, but if he felt then the way I have felt now--like he was drowning--I get it.

I feel like I've gained so much insight too late for it to ever matter. Sure it matters if I ever get involved with someone again...but I am so tied to him in my own head that I feel I will stop that from ever happening.

I didn't say this on the other email but I feel like I'm afraid for someone to touch me. I honestly think I will recoil if a man ever tries to kiss me because it's NOT HIM.

I feel like I'm a really messed up chick some days. I have ALL MY ACT together as a professional with a career and a book contract and I'm becoming a writer as we speak, which was a dream from WAY back before I ever met him...and I have great friends and family, and I appear to be handling it all and most people would say I am very lucky to have what I have. Some days I think I don't deserve the home I have bought from him or the yard or possessions. I have gotten so far on my intellect, and yet I can not handle one of the most simple things known to mankind, a relationship. I couldn't keep my marriage together, and now I can't even go on a date without feeling like I'm doing something wrong. I am really a mess inside and no one would ever know it and the pressure to keep it together is really getting to me.

And yes, I'm calling my doctor tomorrow. I know when I'm headed to the dark place and I have to put the brakes on.

You know it's killing me to not talk to him ever, to be this widow, and I chose it. I cut him off, because I couldn't handle talking to him. I made him act this way. The guy can't talk to me if he wants to as I've blocked him. And talkign to him tears me apart. It's a terrible catch 22.

I know I'm rambling, I'm just really a wreck. I'll get it together. I have to.

[beatrice]

Antonia, these are really very early days. What people do not give themselves is time to heal. We grow in that time, even in the pain.

First of all you are very in touch with your feelings, so you aren't pretending things are other than they are. You had a long and happy marriage, and it fell apart. IMO it was mainly a MLC, and your husband changed. A deep connection however doesn't go away quickly or easily. Also research shows unequivocally that man and women differ greatly in how they mourn. Studies of widows and widowers indicate that women take much much longer to get together with someone else, as a rule. [Read Persuasion again if you are doubt about this].

If you accept that you are sad, and that you do not want to be with anyone else right now, it will take the 'people pleasing' pressure off you. There is no need to add feeling like a failure to your pain!

I too was bewildered by the continuing sense of connection, bewildered by the fact that i couldn't 'get over' my xh. I realise that in some ways I never will, he is part of who I am, but I am OK with that. This may sound bleak, but I have come to like being on my own, and having good friends. Doesn't mean you won't meet someone else, but perhaps not yet. I have worked through it slowly, I have come to accept that at times I will be lonely. And curiously enough having accepted these hard truths, am both happier and much more at peace. And no I am not waiting for my h to 'wake up'

You are not abnormal, and I got a little tired of society's expectations that we ought to be OK in a matter of months or a year or too, after a very very long relationship. Just because some people feel OK, and meet new people, or get their marriage restored ignores the fact that many people on these boards go on hurting, not because they want to, not because they don't try to move on, but the human condition, for most of us, is that we love for a long time after the object of our love has gone away, or died. Life is about more than happiness [and I am not knocking happiness!]- it is about spiritual growth and development, and I suspect that comes through pain as well as pleasure.

These are people who 'hang on' but i do not think you are doing this. You are processing your grief, and without the terrible closure that death brings.

My elder sister dies when i was 17. My parents continued to live a good life, but never really recovered from her loss, and no-one thought they should. Many widows do not remarry. You cannot replace one person with another, It doesn't work like that for us. Sometimes we meet someone else, but while i do not think there is 'one person' for us, I do not necessarily think there is an infinite supply! So I would say take your time.

I would suggest that you might consider selling your house and/or changing some of your furniture. I did that and then rented for a while, then shared, and am now back in a new house which needs a ton of work doing, but I love it. It is wholly mine.

[AntoniaB]

Thanks Beatrice, I feel like the healthiest thing for me is to try to come to terms with just accepting being alone. It's like I do accept it but when I do get lonely, I feel like I should be trying to find someone even just casually. It's a jealousy thing in many ways. I'm jealous that other people have what seems to me an easier life, someone there when they need them. I am very annoyed anymore at my married female friends who complain about the tiniest effort that they have to put out. I feel like saying come live a week in my house and take care of my acre yard and all the stuff that I have to mow and weed and whatnot, and all the groceries I have to haul, and all the things I have to handle when they break. I don't get to push it onto my husband like you do! And I think wow, am I setting myself up for a lifetime of "doing it all on my own 100%" because I can't stop loving him and only him even though he's gone, and the enormity of that gets me down.

I feel pressure from others, yes. A friend said I "had" to date because if I let too long go by I'd "get out of practice and NEVER be able to do it again." She also told me "friends and family are great, but nothing can replace romantic love and you NEED that to be happy." I actually tore her a new one over that...ha ha...because I think that's absurd.

I think people are afraid of me getting stuck living in the past in my head, which is why they push me to date. But you know when the happiest time was in the past month? I went on vacation with a girlfriend and was in a town where I had been once with my XH. I felt at peace there. We didn't go to the same places except for one. But somehow knowing I'd been there with him made me feel at home. Is that bad or good, I don't know. It's not like I look at old photos or videos at all. I never do. But I guess that the idea of eradicating him from my head feels threatening, which is why I feel guilty if I pay attention to any other guy.

So I guess that means I'm not through grieving and I have to just accept that I'm still processing it.

I cancelled my eharmony subscription earlier tonight. If I'd never gone on a date I'd say I was just being a scaredy cat, but I did it, and it still felt wrong. So I'm just going to accept that it's too early and people need to back off and let me grieve and STOP feeling sorry for me because I'm alone.

Beatrice can I ask what do you do to get through the lonely times? You said you have come to accept that at times you will be lonely, so how do you handle that?

One thing I feel in my skin is the absence of touch--I don't even mean sexual, just hand-holding or hugging or whatever. I miss it so bad it hurts. But the thought of just putting myself into a situation with some guy I don't feel for just to get that really is worse than the feeling of not having that in my life.

[25yearsmlc]

Antonia,

Beatrice's post has a lot of good ideas in it. I esp think you may want to sell the house (when the market allows...)

but of course, you don't have to decide anything today.

I'm glad you are making the appt with the doctor. Bless you for seeing the signs and doing something about it THEN!

I recall being very sad after my dad's death. 6 weeks after, I was clinically depressed but didn't quite know it. I mean, I felt I SHOULD feel like crap as a situational response.

The kids were small and so kind to me. H told them at one point I could not play on the floor (4th night in a row) b/c "mommy's sad right now" and d4 asked me, with love and a little fear in her eyes,

"Are you going to be sad Every night?"

Both kids stared at me, waiting for my answer. I said, "no, I'm going to be happy again."

I saw a shrink the next day. Got on ADs and for me, they were a miracle.

I bought a copy of "The Power of Now" also on audio. Found it VERY soothing and comforting to listen to at night.

You may want to try it. For me, it's cognitive behavioral work on getting us

ways to THINK healthier and happier.

Carry on, A, it DOES get better.

And I hope you'll take the hair shirt off soon.

Even if most of the divorce were your fault

(NOT Saying that, just hypothetical)

once you own your part and work on it as a self improvement task,

what's the use of more self flaggellation?

Keeps you in the darkness. Go to the light and enjoy the sun again.

((( )))

[beatrice]

OK, my take on this is that grieving is a necessary part of all of this. If the connection was deep then it may take a longer time. I garden, and some plants have very deep roots and will not even survive transplanting. So I think we heal at different rates. Just as we do physically. I heal from cuts about twice as fast as a friend of mine, same age, for example. It isn't wholly within our control, although we can help ourselves.

And yes, I have been through the stage of getting upset with friends who do not value their spouse and marriage. But that is actually their problem, and their loss.

But you do not need an acre yard, if it is more than you want to take care of. We have to think in terms of us, otherwise we are actually waiting for a rescuer from all of this. Someone who will ride in and make us all right again. Since you are a smart lady, you have rejected this.

I miss the touch too.

Is dating a social skill? And do you want to be with someone for whom it is? A very dear friend of mine met the most amazing man having been on her own for a very long time, and is blissfully happy. Curiously enough we had lunch a few months earlier and talked about settling for second best, and decided against it! She met him quite by chance, and he had been widowed for several years from a very happy marriage. Well worth waiting for I would say. Oh yes and she is about 5 years older than him - and he is very attractive

I think you are wise to recognise that you feel threatened by eradicating him from your head, but actually eradicating doesn't work - because it is a reaction, not a response. The response is to face the sadness as much as you can. Feel the pain [like you do in yoga] and work through it. Not all at once, but gradually, and it goes. Or it did for me. Now I have good memories, and see my most of my marriage as a blessing. He is still around but in a good way, at least for me.

And ADs and therapy are good if you have an understanding therapist.

Antonia, I relate so much to what you posted as the stage you are now at in time terms. All I can say is that it really does get better, and we truly do not know what is around the corner. It is a sign of depression when we cannot imagine it being better or different from what it is now. When you feel get that, please get help for the sadness. A relationship, as you know, is not a cure-all, and it is a problem in society that we think it is. A soluiton that even professionals buy into.

[cat04]

Antonia,

You have come such a long way. I like that you are able to look at yourself and others so honestly.

Grieving is a process, just like everything else in life.

Moving on, other people's advice to just date, sort of reminds me of when I wanted to have my tubes tied. I have one child. The doctor didn't want to do it "what if something happens to your son?" My first and only thought was "jackass, he is unreplaceable and not a part of this discussion".

Parents who lose a child, have another when the time is right. Not to replace, but because they are ready.

When you are ready, you will meet someone. And it won't feel wrong. That is something I can guarantee.

Be patient with yourself and just continue working on you.

[kara]

Hi Antonia

I haven't been on in a while but check in periodically to see how everyone is doing.

It is only natural to feel stuck at some times. This is how you feel and where you may be today. It is not your final destination.

I have come to the conclusion that some people will always feel a deep connection and even love for their ex. We don't all subscribe to the disposable way of life and love that so many others do.It is possible, given time, to feel that connection and love and still move on with someone else. The heart has room for many types of love. You can't rush the process of "moving on" or put it on a timetable. It will happen when it happens.

I understand what you say about missing touch. A friend of mine grew up in a household where her parents were emotionally divorced from each other and their children. It was an extremely cold and loveless atmosphere where no hugging ever took place and no soft words were spoken. She was always happy to get a hug from her friends and would say "You don't know how good it feels to touch somebody". There are many sources of love and touch in the world. Friends, animals, relatives - there is usually something we can tap into. I'm not implying that you don't know this and I am not making light of the type of love or touch we get in itimate adult relationships.

I don't think your ex will always be in your head to the extent that you can't have another relationship. You are obviously just not ready but that doesn't mean you never will be. Life is ever evolving. We are ever evolving.

We all have to face loneliness, whether married, unmarried, living alone or in a house full of people. It is possible to feel lonely in a crowd. It is possible to feel lonely when you are married. I know several married women with children who complain of feeling lonely and not having needs met. God created us to interact with each other and we will always crave human contact on several levels.

Continue to be good to yourself.

((( )))