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#2949552 03/13/24 07:22 PM
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This post should have been written months ago. Many reasons why not, some peculiar to me, many for the reasons often discussed here - fear, inertia, etc...

Why now? I’m not sure but to let it out perhaps. I tend to be very self-contained. Or maybe so others can read, just like I have been to others stories, and not feel alone like I did at first. I forget when I found this forum while googling for answers. Likely around DB2. The regulars through the years, the welcome post resources, Sandi’s rules, etc… have truly been a lifesaver to my heart and mind and soul as I read, synthesize, and internalize. Though I’m not the type to ever physically self-harm, I now understand, to the core of my being, exactly why men suicide. Alternatively, for me it was a possibility there would just be a shell left on this earth with my name, but “I” wouldn’t be present in any real sense.

Bitter ashes, Grief, ... ... Gratitude
Grief, Bitter Ashes, Gratitude
Grief, Gratitude, Bitter Ashes

Right now? making moving myself along the journey. I am a better man almost a year later. I will continue.

Gratitude, Grief, ... ... Bitter Ashes

Though still, almost a year later, every day at random times it feels like a mountain fell on me. I can't breathe, can't see, can't think, my hands shake, I feel flattened to nothingness and tears fall ... and then the world starts again. Talking with my father and his experiences with hurt and failure - he described it as the world goes black and you can see no way out of the darkness. Then eventually you see bits of light that offer hope for the future.

I deliberated on naming myself Grief or Gratitude or now Grok as I always seem to seek understanding before I can react or process. (from Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land") Now perhaps I will just be G, as I am all three at the same time. I hadn't ever understood that you could feel multiple opposing emotions like this.

I wondered where my anger was for a long time. W did ask me early on if I was angry and hated her. No, I find it difficult to hate, I am a calm and collected person by nature and don't anger easily. Perhaps a suppression from childhood when I figured out with my intellect and capacity, I could really wreak harm to all around if I did not stay controlled. I knew where my anger was residing after coming across this quote, for I can see all the wonderful branching futures closed off and deleted as she chooses divorce rather than healing a family, and that loss grieves me to the core of my soul. Anger resides in a WTF of grief for me.

“I sat with my anger long enough until she told me her real name was grief.” ― C.S. Lewis

Nov 2022 –
W: H, we have to talk. I’m not feeling “in love” the way we should be and used to. I feel attracted and a connection to a man at S12’s athletics (also one of D18's bosses at her work).
G: Always rational me - OK W, this is troubling but seems part of the normal troubles in marriages by the 20 year mark. The burdens of life leave not enough US connection time and all of us will eventually come across people we connect with during life. What shall we do about it? I’m at a loss since you schedule the family busy for 6.5 days of the week and have given you all excess budget and it is all spent, admittedly on good things. … tears as I felt helpless on what to do with beloved who is obviously unhappy. In retrospect, I was not very knowledgeable on female communication patterns and male / female dynamics.

Christmas 2022 -
Travel to see her family and my family in other states. Because of pet care etc..., me + kids for ~ a week at my parents and then fly her in for a combined ~ a week at her family. W seems grumpy and irritated. W doesn't seem to want to be close. I don't understand. But I am patient and await when she can say. I saw, but didn't understand the effect of seeing her parents bicker. One of several MLC triggers.

End of March 2023 -
The night of infamy. PTSD generator. In house separation begins. ILYBINILWY

W: We have to separate. I have "feelings" for another man. We haven't been maintaining our relationship and I feel like roommates. My heart is hard and I don't think you can reach me anymore. My feelings are REAL!!
G: I can't sleep at all. Up at before dawn, go walking in a local preserve. She is suddenly so cold, walled off, and dressing as such. Pray, write, think, in shock... come home after walking around until evening. Awake for ~40 hours.
DB1, Day after Easter, April 2023 -
W: I want a divorce. "I have to burn it all down and start over." I thought it would be not right to do this on Easter.
G: I don't and don't agree with any of this in dealing with our problems. I will not deny you agency in any way however and will not obstruct you.

DB1 rescinded, May 2023 -
Still in a tail spin, trying to orient and right myself. I had found a web site/guy who had a program to help men in separations. It was very helpful in focusing me on what I can control along with dos and don’ts that align with DB principles. I thought for a while this is what I was dealing with, a WAW, since that was how W described herself. I had been posting a song daily to FB representing something I felt meaningful to me. I had kept it mostly about me and not blame or provoking anger. Almost no one else knew at this point. This day though I was cranky and publicly posted a song link and lyrics on the way to work:

Watching the mistakes go down
Something inspires the things I do yeah

You left me here face down
Spilling blood on the higher ground


I get a call just before passing through vehicle entry security on the way to work. W: What are you doing? Our parents don't even know. I'll take it back. I'll not divorce you. G: Um, What?! We'll talk about this later. After a few weeks she demands her own place to live, but no divorce. I agree in the interests of giving time and space.

At the same time, finding out more about OM, both what she is telling me and yes, snooping. Crazy enough, I was just about the person she felt she could tell about what she was doing and experiencing! The experts here are right about snooping. Generally don't do it. The pain of seeing that dialog about me and our life distorted to someone else.... It did clarify what she was NOT telling me. She never directly lied though.

OM is -
- Married for 5 years
- Has a 2 yr old and a newborn now
- Is one of D18's bosses (for swim lessons she teaches)
- Is part of what was S12's sports (swim)
- They had constructed plans of how to leave their families
- W refused a PA, but doesn't believe an EA is a real thing, though in the middle of one.
- OM did something with her phone so he can see the messages when she texts herself. OM replies by modifying her Spotify playlists, anon replies on social media platforms, etc... trying to be hidden and non-attributable. She accepts this as well and good so OM can see how genuine she is... W: "Oh, he's just protecting his family" WTF?! He's wonderful for putting all risk on you? From my line of work, I know you cannot hide this from even a limited forensic analysis. Four separate acquaintances, including IC and ex-FBI agent, independently described this as a control mechanism.

DB2 6/2023 -
In the process of taking a hard look at myself and her accusations and hurts (I was still taking them very literally at this point. I have had so much trust in her judgements and opinions, it is very difficult to detach and look from outside.) I told the pastor of my church I needed help. I went to meet him and told him little of the things W had said to me, but that I needed to renew myself as I was in a rut and in trouble. After the meeting I walk out into the parking lot to find W parked there also.

W: What are you doing here?!
G: Well, I considered what you said and decided I will work on my spiritual aspects as I have been slacking for some years.
W: What did you tell him about me?!
G: Very little, but some since this crisis is revolving around you. My conversation with him was focused on me and where I'm at. I can do something about me and he will help.
W: Oh! OM told me not to be mad when I came over here.
G: Um, right. Lets talk about this...
After a long conversation about us, W devolves into talking about OM's wonderful qualities, realizes what she is doing.
W: Oh G! I can't do this anymore. I love HIM!
W: I will be the villain to everyone. The children will take your side and won't understand. My brother will never speak to me again. My parents like you, not me. No church in their right mind will accept what I am doing. I HAVE to do it like crossing the invisible bridge by Indiana Jones for the Holy Grail.

Weeks later -
It really sinks in I have a WW, not just a WAW. The EA has given her the out for the WAW feelings she had. I wonder if she really wanted me to be the bad guy and reject her/divorce her to give her the freedom she believes she wants. The Christian values we had shared would not allow divorce for the reasons she has given so far. Repair of relationships would be demanded. M suicide by EA?

G: I am not your enemy. Don't let this be a legal fight and the state determine outcomes. I give zero support to divorce, but I will not block you. I will not restrict your access or contact to our children.

Mediation 1 8/2023 -
Mediator: W, you are still living in the same home?!
WW: Yes
Mediator: G, do you feel comfortable with this?!
G: No. (this was a reply on gut instinct and not thought out)
Afterwards I told W directly, "Any complaints you have directly with me are fine. I will take them and you may stay here. But you have brough another man into MY HOME even virtually. That is incredibly disrespectful and I am not OK with it."

Vacation 9/2023 -
As my workplace is transitioning support contracts, I must take my accumulated leave or will lose all leave. Instead of the annual trips to see family around Christmas, I take the three kids and me to the other side of the USA to see my family for about two weeks. WW drops us off at the airport and unexpectedly gave me a hug. First contact since separation. She feels thin. Has lost a ton of weight. She had been trying to shed it for 10+ years without success until now. The "why now" bugs me. I feel odd and don't know what to make of it. Try to keep to my no expectations and attach no meaning. Adventures galore with parents and hang with my two sisters who have been my touchstone rocks while I work through this. I don't message or contact WW. Head feels more clear.

After return, each day, I post on FB pictures and the adventure we had with my family. This is the first time WW can see what we were doing. I discover the home in some disarray with dog poop on the floor where she didn't bother to clean it up. She asks me to take a drive with her before the next mediation session.

WW: G, you know I've been feeling in a bad place. If I wasn't around anymore everyone wouldn't feel so bad. Not that I would ever do that. Everyone’s emotions are too much for me.
G: That sounds very hard.

I check bills and credit cards and discover WW spent an $7,000+ more than normal in little chunks all over the place. I ask for joint cards back and take her off bank accounts. I pull from emergency accounts to pay overages. WW: Fine. It's time anyway.

She moves out 10/2023 -
WW: unexpectedly via text "G, I'm staying at the local state campground X in a tent until I find a place to live. I'll come back during the day to see the kids"
G: "you will do as you chose. sleep well, and stay safe"

She finds a place 11/2023
WW has been texting me properties and land for many months now. Never a clear direction. Wobbling all over the place. I had promised early on to pull from investment accounts to pay for any affordable place. The cost would come from her side of any settlement. She figures out finally she has no job so can get no loan. To be clear, she has a masters degree, is working on a second masters degree and could make as much as me if she chose that life style. I'm not helping as I said early on "if you chose this, I will not be some sort of half-husband to you." Finally, without warning...

WW: G, I need $20,000 on this property three days from now. I decided on this Fifth Wheel RV with only $600/month lot rent as my temporary housing. It even has a shed. Yay!
G: Um, $20k completed wire transfer in three days?! We don't keep that kind of cash around. Typically, 3 days to sell some investment and another 3 days to transfer funds if you are lucky. Let me think.
WW: Oh, I didn't think about how it would work. I might lose me $3,000 deposit! That is my foolishness (hands shaking). I don't have any money left. I spent the $8,000 my parents left me. No one is giving me dog walking jobs on Rover like they claim!
I did get it done by taping a home equity line of credit I had established.

Thanksgiving 2023 -
The kids and I whip up a great feast. We plan and cook together. We are starting to bond as our own unit. At the end of the prep S12 says "when is mommy going to come? I asked her and she said it is up to you daddy." I hadn't said a thing to WW.

G: S12, tell your mom she is welcome at XX o'clock

I do this for my children. I was calm and respectful. I asked the blessings on all of us as we need it and gave thanks for all the good things in our lives. I went for a walk by myself later to feel crushed and shake for an hour.

Christmas 2023
Her parents come out to our state in their RV. They visit and help her some. They refuse to give what she thought was her inheritance money. Her RV need work as I don't think she had a good inspection done as I suggested she do. She continues to intermittently come over most weekdays to be with kids as I had agreed to. First snoop in a long time finds "I am going over weekdays to make sure the kids don't feel like I abandoned them." Her parents and I get along well and they come over many days to visit with kids and me, play games, etc... Whenever they propose an event with WW also, I have plans. We all go out together to a hibachi grill once before they leave in Jan (WW included). Her and her parents had Christmas Eve at their RV with the children. I had Christmas morning and day with my children. It was a good day. I had enjoyed taking each one on trips to buy the gifts for each other and select “Santa” gifts for each other.

January 2024
Now? Routines with running a household and three kids alone takes a lot more out of me. I have discarded most entertainment habits I use to have, and it is to my and the children’s benefit. WW comes over most weekdays while I am gone for between 1 - 5 hrs to educate and visit D17 and S12 as we have homeschooled always. This put a real wrinkle in our futures, but I agreed for it to continue as it has been very good for the children. WW doesn't seem to do anything besides scroll social media on her phone/laptop or work some kids education while she is there. I suspect looking for secret OM contact or emotional fix. I installed a doorbell cam and a couple indoor cams to check up on kids since I am not there and she is often not either. I think that made her mad several times. Now I just am bemused at her occasional upset. I’ve had some of the NG habits that I am shedding slowly.

More to the back story and future story to come in other posts.

H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded (WW: "I know it's wrong") 5/2023
DB2 (WW: "I can't do this, I Love HIM") 6/2023
G: I am not your enemy. Don't let this be a legal fight and the state determine outcomes.
Legal Mediation 1-4 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
1 member likes this: Catman19
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So far in this past year - I have Gratitude to the forum members who constructed various reading lists.

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061092&page=all

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483893&page=all

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1969358&page=all

https://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2061094#Post2061094

By the end of this week, I'll have completed these. Putting into practice is harder...

Infidelity:
• Harley, "Surviving an Affair"
• Janice Spring, "After the Affair"

KIDS
• Elizabeth Marquardt, Between Two Worlds The Inner Lives of Children of Divorce
• Neuman, Helping your kids cope with divorce: Sandcastles

Relationship
• Gary Smally, If Only He Knew
• MWD, Divorce Busting / *Divorce Remedy
• Chapman, One more try
• Gary Chapman, The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts
• Dobson, Love Must Be Tough
• Gary Smally, Winning Your Wife Back Before It's Too Late
• Paul Tripp, Marriage (Repackage): 6 Gospel Commitments Every Couple Needs to Make
• Harley, His Needs Her Needs
• John Gray, Mars and Venus Starting Over
• John Gray Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus.
• John Gray Why Mars and Venus Collide
• The art of seduction abreviated

MAN UP
• Robert Glover, No more Mr nice guy
• Wayne M. Levine, "Hold onto your N.U.T.S."
• Grover, Relentless
• Cloud, Boundaries, Updated and Expanded Edition
• David Deida, The Way of the Superior Man

Life
• Adams, How To Fail At Everything
• Voss, Never Split the Difference


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
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Welcome to the forums, sometimes posting ones story and hearing other similar ones isnone of the best forms of therapy. As men we rarely have people we don't want to bother and talk about things. Stay on the path you are, she seems very confused and lost and is letting her emotions run her life. Focus on your children and yourself and continue being as indifferent in your communications with her.

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Hello grok

Welcome to the board.

Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.

The first thing you should do is be sure to read the Divorce Remedy (DR) book by Michele Weiner-Davis. The following link is the first chapter:

https://www.divorcebusting.com/sb_the_divorce_remedy.htm


A few other books by MWD:

http://divorcebusting.com/sample_book_chapters.htm


And Michele's articles.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/articles.htm


Once your registration to the site has been completed you can post and start a thread. Please have only one thread active at a time (per forum); it keeps your situation organized and is easier for those following along and posting to you. There are a few forums which help categorize posters’ situations.

When your thread reaches 100 posts, it will be time for you to start a new thread. It is a good idea to link your old thread to your new one, and even link the new one back to the previous one. That makes it easier for the folks following your story. (There is a help thread on linking in the sticky threads at the top section of the forum’s display.) A moderator will “close” your full thread which prevents further posting to it. It is still available to read.

Post in small frequent replies on your thread. Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity can be very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down.

Post on other people’s thread to give support.

Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!

Get out and Get a Life (GAL).

DETACH.

Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.

Have NO EXPECTATIONS.

Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.

Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.

Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:

I would start with Sandi's Rules
A list of dos and don'ts for the LBS (left behind spouse)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553072#Post2553072

Going Dark
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=50956#Post5095

Detachment thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2538414#Post2538414

Validation Cheat Sheet: Techniques and tips on how to validate (showing your walk away spouse (WAS) that you recognize and accept his or her opinions as valid, even if you do not agree with them)
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2457566#Post2457566

Boundaries Cheat Sheet
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2536096#Post2536096

Abbreviations
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2553153#Post2553153

For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife by sandi2
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2545554#Post2545554

Resource thread
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forum...ain=57819&Number=2578224#Post2578224

Stages of the LBS
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1964990&page=1

Validation
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=191764#Post191764

Pursuit and Distance
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2483574#Post2483574

The Lighthouse Story
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2484619#Post2484619

Your H or W is giving you a GIFT.
THE GIFT OF TIME.
USE it wisely.

Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Thanks catman, DnJ,

I've tried journalling intermittently. Posting may be better. I have trouble getting time to write all the many thoughts running through me. By the time I write one down I have gone through five more threads internally. I often seem to think in terms of concepts, not necessarily words. To write things down, or talk for that matter, I must make an effort to translate meanings into words. Just like any translation, meaning and intent can be lost along the way.

I do have the typical male trait of not talking about things, I just think about them. This is also a personal trait as I can be very self-contained. When younger I did a fair amount of backpack camping. Some of these events had three-day solo time as part of the program. I was fine and felt three days solo to be peaceful. It seemed to drive most others crazy. I’m also in the process of rebuilding male friend networks I had lost and not maintained over the last years. A symptom of my own problems. When this kicked off I realized I did not have anyone to talk to about it.

In retrospect, this trait has not helped my M communications. Along with everything else this past year came a litany of complaints and previously unknown hurts from W. She cast it almost all on me, which I accepted at first. With some detachment comes more clarity. We met as new military officers. Training and experience gave us both the ability to push aside issues that don’t seem to matter in the moment and “get things done” anyway. Now we are paying the price for pushing things aside.

Gratitude for daughters yesterday –
It is oak tree pollen season here. My little truck and D18’s cars are coated in yellow. Yesterday after work – “hey D18, lets go wash our cars.” She starts sobbing while laying in bed “Daaad! I can’t! I’m sooooo tired! I have to nap now! DON’T start without ME!”

D18 has a job working before and after school care for 3 to 15 year olds. She is one who emotions just flow out of. I have learned a lot this year on how to accept and process these female expressions. This is a difficult space for me. I just pat her on her head and say “OK, not having a break after work FEELS hard I know, I’ll be back in a little bit.” Validation? She goes to sleep.

On to D17 who is laying on the couch watching reels and ask her to come help wash cars. “Daaaad! Do I have to?!” “No D17, but I would like your help and enjoy your company.” I go out and start and D17 joins me. “Give me the good brush, I want yours Dad.” “HA, looks like you got wet Dad, you should be more careful…LOL” Grumpy turns to laughs.

D18 comes out to wash her car. “Don’t you spray me or I WILL punch you!” “Give me the good brush Dad!” “Stop doing it for me, I WANT TO DO IT” But like D17, ends in laughs despite wanting to stay grumpy. They both end up scrubbing their white Crocs with car wash stuff while disputing who gets their feet sprayed first.

D18 and I go in to make Mexican rice together. She has been picking meal items for us to make together. Tastes great.

10:30p after W has come, said goodnights for 40 min to kids and left, I find D18 and D17 downstairs after lights out. “What are you two doing?” D18 is over tired and starts sobbing again. “I’m sorry and I want to go to bed but I didn’t eat enough and now I have to toast the bagels and find the cream cheese and still have to brush teeth and I’m sad and I’m tired and want to go to bed and I have to get up early again and ….” D17 rather than be her critical self says it’s OK we’ll help you and makes D18 laugh at something. Then mock criticizes her for laughing while she is momentarily depressed. This makes D18 laugh more and say stop it! S12 comes downstairs at the commotion. Rather than criticize, I just say S12 do you want to join us in making sad D18 laugh? I make D18 mint tea and shoo them upstairs to bed after rule breaking snacks are complete. Then visit with each one in bed as a new habit I am building to support them through this.

Grief reminders yesterday –
Kids don’t know all the things WW has told me over the last year. I’m not sure she even remembers saying them. Ringing in my head still is:

“It’s ok I won’t be in the home, they need their dad more now anyway. Because D18, D17 are older and S12 is a boy.”

“How do you feel W, now that you have your own space?” “It’s wonderful because I don’t have everyone demanding something from me. Whenever the kids demand anything, I feel like I have to drop everything of mine and do it for them. It’s time for me and I can finally get some things done like my second masters degree and the craft business I want to start up.”


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,645
Likes: 472
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Good Morning g

I’m glad you posted and are sharing your story. It is wonderful to hear that you’ve found the resources and fellow posters’ hard-earned wisdom soothing to heart, mind, and soul. And yes, you are not alone.

Originally Posted by grok
I’m not the type to ever physically self-harm, I now understand, to the core of my being, exactly why men suicide. Alternatively, for me it was a possibility there would just be a shell left on this earth with my name, but “I” wouldn’t be present in any real sense.

(((Hug)))

I hear you man. I’ve writhed in the abyss of depression and despair. I know first hand how it feels and how it seems like it will last forever. Yet, it really is temporary. Fleeting.

Strange to say fleeting, for I struggled in that crucible for months and months. However, looking back, that is how it now feels.

And yes, getting that close the precipice of ending things brings a - to one’s core understanding of certain things. Utilize that understanding. Pay it forward. Speak a kind word to a stranger. You never know what a completely life altering effect you may have on someone who is silently suffering in utter agony.

It’s the little things, the little moments - a kind word, a smile, a hug - I find are really misnamed. For they are the big moments in people’s lives. Much bigger, and longer remembered and cherished than what is often perceived and sought as grand.

Sharing some of one’s time is the most precious thing there is.

Originally Posted by grok
Though still, almost a year later, every day at random times it feels like a mountain fell on me. I can't breathe, can't see, can't think, my hands shake, I feel flattened to nothingness and tears fall ... and then the world starts again. Talking with my father and his experiences with hurt and failure - he described it as the world goes black and you can see no way out of the darkness. Then eventually you see bits of light that offer hope for the future.

Very nice to see your Dad sharing his wisdom.

Like a mountain falling and crushing is very apt.

A suggestion:

We all need to feel our grief. And you are. However, presently it strikes at random times throughout the day. Your feelings build and then release. You feel better for a while. Then repeat. Perfectly healthy and normal.

Now, the suggestion. Schedule this feeling and release.

Depending on how many times a day you experience this, schedule the appropriate number of sessions. For example.

In the morning, when you first get out of bed, you likely are doing pretty well. By the way, I hope you are getting a good night sleep. Well rested is super important. This scheduling helps with that too. So, after awakening a bit, set an alarm (yes use an alarm) for 5 or 10 minutes. Once you get proficient and experienced in this scheduled time, 5 minutes will likely be enough.

Anyhow, sit by yourself, and feel your loss. Cry, feel the pain and sorrow, let it wash over you. When the alarm goes off. Stop. Get up. And go about your day.

Schedule these sessions. You can then ensure you have convenient places and times (like an empty room or your car during coffee break) to feel and release the building emotions.

Taking such control over your actions influences your emotions. You experience them, and you slowly start to ween back the needed amount of time and number of times a day. Maybe it starts 5 minutes six times a day, then 5 minutes four times a day, then only morning and night, then three minutes. Eventually, you reach only one time needed, maybe just mornings. And then you’ll need no scheduled outlet. You can consciously defer to later as needed. (Just ensure you do allow yourself to feel later.)

Don’t fret over length of time or numbers of times. Find the balance that works for you. Then move forward towards the goal of zero times. We are all pretty much fixers, and it’s surprising how motivated and competent we actual are at solving things and reaching a set goal. Problem is, in our situations we try to solve things that are not within our control or power to solve. Yet, focus on you. Focus on something directly controllable. And it is amazing how quickly we do overcome.

Your W certainly sounds all over the place. And her descent is pretty wild. So, she’s currently living in her RV at a campground? Do the kids stay with her? What is your custody schedule?

I see your signature line states a draft settlement in March this year. What are the details (if you wish to share)? Did you utilize a lawyer? Ensure you always have a L look over anything before you sign.

W’s has burnt through a lot of cash it seems. $7000 on credit card, $3000 deposit, spent the $8000 her parents gifted her, and $20,000 of investments to purchase the RV.

Quote
[W:] No one is giving me dog walking jobs on Rover like they claim!

No job, no employment, and spending lots. Unfortunately, that is a pretty common script. Be cautious and watch your finances. I agree with your wise decision to get back her joint credit card and remove her from accounts.

W’s emotions will be cranked to eleven and she just has no bandwidth for you, the kids, or anyone or anything else. Toss in an OM and affair, and she has quite a pile of pain, regret, shame, guilt, to get through, along with her own inner work. Sorry g, an EA seldom remain just that. A PA is highly likely.

Affairs are a symptom of a deeper problem. The AP means nothing. They are a band-aid. Affairs are built upon lies and deceit, and require constant and enormous energies to maintain for they are build upon a horrible foundation - like building on sand. Very unstable.

W needs to feel the loss. Feel the consequences of her choices. And that’s a long road.

Focus on you and the kids. GAL. Give plenty of time and space. And you are right - no snooping. smile

Start new hobbies. Or pick up old one’s you had to put down due to the pressures of marriage and life.

I look forward to conversing with you.

Have a great day.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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Thanks DnJ,

W is living in her RV at an RV Park 15 minutes away. It does have resale value (though I don't think she had it inspected well and it needs expensive maintenance) and at $600/month lot rental is much less than half the monthly cost of an apartment here of the same size. She views it as a temporary transition place to live. She has spoken to me and the mediator of her plans to purchase land nearby and build a house for her with space for the children in the future. I said nothing. She has no idea of how real estate or home construction works and how long it will take. I mentioned these plans to my tough blue collar type sister, who just snorted and quipped "f'n five years MAYBE." By that time D18 and D17 will be out on their own and S12 will be almost ready to graduate high school.

Her near-term rationale is not bad but her ability to honestly view the future is ... warped right now. She has never been the one to deal with the realities of making it on your own. She went from supported at college, to almost immediately through officer training, to military, to married.

Custody?
Well, the children live with me full time in our home. At one point early on I told her if she wanted me move out I would be very angry. Also it is better for the children to have zero disruption in their home, routines and rooms. She agreed. I said and meant that I would not block or restrict her access to the children. They may go to her anytime they or she want. When asked by the mediator last time, she let it slip "the kids don't ever come over because the don't like it there." The notional parenting plan she drew up reflects this reality. I accepted her use of the home during the weekdays while I am at work to continue to homeschool D17 (almost self schools now) and S12. She also takes those two to sports and kids activities.

Draft Settlement
The draft settlement needs a L to look it over for my interests now. We used an independent impartial mediator who walked her though all the financial and procedural parts and then drew up a draft based on what we had agreed to. I read the law early, knew the financial parts, and understood most of the rest but figured she needed someone to walk her through it and I needed it all put in the correct legal terms. She paid for it. Children will live with me. She can option something like 100 nights a year if she chooses. I will not pay her child support. I will pay her ~20% of my income as alimony for 18 months (until D17 graduates and has her drivers license). This alimony is predicated on her claiming the need to spend 30 hours a week on kids home schooling and activities, preventing a normal job…. After the 18 months it is presumed W has the ability to fully support herself. Assets are split 50/50 with two exceptions. I will trade conventional investment accounts to buy her out of our home. We also have a rental house in another state with a property line issue which prevents easy sale. I will continue to manage this rental house in which we both have 50% interest.

g


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
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Support comes when you release Fear

I felt very alone and afraid of telling people anything for a long time. Most of what I knew came from W telling me things in confidence in an odd sort of trust. Shall I tell others and have it circle around breaking this limited trust? Would the information be used by others in cruel or heavy handed ways causing further damage? Eventually I figured out how to tell people just the basic facts in a without coming across as … being out to cause W deliberate injury.

“Hi D17’s gymnastics teachers. I need to change out the payment sources. No, I’m not removing her. Her mom left me this year and told me she is “In Love” with another man and wants a divorce. I have to make a bunch of changes and adjustments.” To my surprise, both ladies behind the counter turned to me and the first thing they said was, “OH! G are you OK? Do you need anything?” I was shocked. I don’t know what I was expecting. They know W and D17. They don’t know me really.

As part of GAL, I’ve been going to a local brew house for trivia night. A couple of the regulars I got to hang out with know but some of the others did not this last week.
“What you looking at on your phone G? Shouldn’t be work so seriously…” I turn the phone around and show the title “Marital settlement agreement.”
“Was this a surprise G?”
“When she told me she was in love with a married guy who apparently promised to leave his wife for her and he has a 2 yr old and a newborn it was a surprise.”
Mostly from the married ladies around the table: “WTF G! Like that would ever f’n happen G! F that G! That never works in real life G! ” along with snorts of disgust. I felt better.

g


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
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Posts: 15
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Thoughts on disconnects, oddities, and detachment

I'm an analytical type. It has been very hard for me to stop reading all the clues, release hope, let go of expectations, and live in the present. I have all the typical male “fix it” and from work I have “solve complex technical problems” instincts. I kept seeing all these discontinuities along the way of W’s mind and heart crisis and familiar patterns overlaid. I think it took six months to get to releasing expectations and really moving to detaching. The advice here against in home separations is right. I could not truly detach until her presence and internal disconnects were not in the same home with me every day.

Disconnect of the first six months when in the same home - When W was tired or caught up in what she was saying she would still refer to me as “honey.” I don’t think she ever noticed she was doing it. It is REALLY hard to detach when terms of endearment get thrown into conversations. How can my heart deal with or detach from this earnest familiar face I have been beside for half my life calling me “honey” and then telling me about her plans to leave?

This week’s oddity - We have three dogs. Two little ones and one large who is just about one year old now. Primarily I and D18 and D17 take care of them. When W is not too busy with work, classes, helping other people, or feeling sick, she will take the two little dogs overnights to her RV. The large dog is just growing out of being a puppy and still has a fair amount of energy. A few days ago when stopping by to pick up D17 for gymnastics she comes into the kitchen and says “G, I found a free! dog training class a 45 minutes drive away (an hour for her). Do you mind if I take large dog on Saturday mornings? His barking is bothering D17 and S12.” I just say “OK W, I have no issues with you taking him for training. I agree free is good!” She popped in today (Sat morning 9am and I didn’t know it was going to be today) as I’m making breakfast for me and kids, leashed the large dog, and went off to the training class. Contact with kids was a short “Hi D17, Love you S12” and off she went. S12 didn’t even look up from his computer game but just yelled “Love you more!” What sort of blended home is this? She is training a dog she likes but rarely takes care of and lives only with me? How much of this am I OK with?

Two weeks ago oddity - W has slowly been removing items from the home she is confident the kids and I will not want or use. “Hey G, I’m going to take the KitchenAid machine attachments that you and D18 don’t use. I’ll take the grain grinding attachment and to the 50lb sacks of wheat and corn, etc… if you aren’t opposed. That way we can be prepared and make bread and all kinds of stuff right through emergencies or supply breakdowns.” I just said “That is fine with me W.” Internally I’m asking who is “WE?” She distinctly said “WE will be prepared.”

I can get confused by these disconnects, have an impulse to try and figure out what they mean, and many months ago would have given me hope. I did read and have tried to internalize all the repeated advice on NOT reading into what she says and does. i.e. DON’T think any of this means she has decided or feels any diffently. I just note them as signs of internal issues and struggles she has and the journey she is on. One time early on I figured out through a course designed for men undergoing separations…. I told her directly “I understand through all this pain and destruction you are only trying to seek what you believe will make you happy.” She looked a little surprised and whispered, “Yes.”

g


H:54 W:50
D18, D17, S12
ILYBINILWY 3/2023
DB1 4/2023
DB1 rescinded 5/2023
DB2 6/2023 ("I can't do this, I Love HIM")
Legal Mediation 1-4 & W moves out 8/2023 – 2/2024
Draft settlement 3/2024
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Good Morning g

Cool user name by the way. smile

I loved the car washing story. Such times are long remembered.

I’ve no pollen here yet. Everything is still under a blanket of melting snow.

Originally Posted by grok
“How do you feel W, now that you have your own space?” “It’s wonderful because I don’t have everyone demanding something from me. Whenever the kids demand anything, I feel like I have to drop everything of mine and do it for them. It’s time for me and I can finally get some things done like my second masters degree and the craft business I want to start up.”

Asking W about her feelings is not that helpful. Sure, it gives you a window into her current mindset. For that moment in time. And perhaps it assuages some doubts as it allows you to see and understand her path a bit.

However, she answered like one would suspect she would. And that, reinforces her position within herself. She is already surrounding herself with people who reinforce and encourage her viewpoint, don’t add yourself to that entourage.

Yes, validate her feelings if/when those times come up and it is appropriate. That’s validating her feelings not the situation.

She needs time and space. She needs to feel something other than her euphoric high about her shinny new life. Loss, shame, regret, guilt, etc. Time and space can give her the chance for such emotions to bubble up to her surface. Emotions that are more helpful to your goal.

The draft separation proposal sounds reasonable. Given the kids ages, they do have a say in where and whom they live with. It sounds like they would agree as well.

W’s future plans of acquiring some property and building a house sound less reasonable. Also, you don’t want to get tangled up in such a venture. Ensure your financial liabilities are secured and limited before any such wild course occurs.

Usually there is a window when the leaving spouse is more generous in negotiating. A time when their emotions are running high and they are more “happy”. This reverts or disappears as more time passes. Just something to consider while thinking over the business side of your journey.

Originally Posted by grok
I felt very alone and afraid of telling people anything for a long time. Most of what I knew came from W telling me things in confidence in an odd sort of trust. Shall I tell others and have it circle around breaking this limited trust? Would the information be used by others in cruel or heavy handed ways causing further damage? Eventually I figured out how to tell people just the basic facts in a without coming across as … being out to cause W deliberate injury.

As a general rule, sticking to the basic facts is good. I totally get how alone and afraid you felt. And wondering how much you should you let that cat out of the bag.

Some advice: Never demonize W.

Demonizing W will alter you. It also will affect your kids. Your kids are half W. Half their genetic make up comes from their Mom. They know this. Any demonizing or such will be reflected / absorbed by them. Believe me, they already have many question of if they are destine for a similar fate as Mom.

It’s perfectly ok, and needed, to discuss the situation with the kids. Answer their questions openly and honestly - age appropriate of course. And some topics can be, are, none of their business. Which is still an answer.

Originally Posted by grok
I'm an analytical type. It has been very hard for me to stop reading all the clues, release hope, let go of expectations, and live in the present. I have all the typical male “fix it” and from work I have “solve complex technical problems” instincts.

I hear you man.

Consider solution vs resolution. Solving vs resolving.

Lots of problems situations - wording choice here. Like can, will, cannot, won’t, try, do, our mind is always listening and will craft one’s reality as one asks it to. For example, cannot means impossible. And very few things are truly impossible. I, DnJ, cannot get pregnant is one of those impossibilities. However, most stuff is will not or won’t, not can’t.

So saying problem defines and crafts things/situations into problems. This is our usual default to see life’s challenges as problems and we engage our problem solving abilities and mind. “Problem” is, haha, Saturday day humour. Thing is, life’s challenges can be opportunities when we don’t predefine or pigeonhole them as problems.

Resolving a challenge is different than solving a problem. Some problems do not have solutions. Yet everything can have a resolution.

This week’s oddities are not solvable. You wisely have realized this. It’s a matter of control, for the oddities lay with W. You control only how you will respond.

Originally Posted by grok
What sort of blended home is this? She is training a dog she likes but rarely takes care of and lives only with me? How much of this am I OK with?

Good questions.

These behaviours of her’s do illustrate her internal struggles. However, you may want to consider saying no to some stuff.

Dog training is basically training the owner. Bonding dog and owner. As dog doesn’t live with her, such training will have less benefit. I’d likely say such duality of mastership will confuse said dog, depending on how seriously W takes it.

The removing of appliances and supplies is more troubling in my opinion. She moved out, without a signed legally binding separation agreement, let her furnish her new digs (more or less). Not being mean here, rather you and the kids need stuff.

When my W left she utilized my house and pantry as a shopping mart for a while. Eventually I said this is my and the kids house, not a grocery store. She stopped after that.

It’s difficult to know how to proceed when situations are first going along. Treat W as a roommate. Or as a friend as she doesn’t live there. Of course, she not a friend as your friends don’t treat you that way. Point is, you’d likely not let a roommate or friend do what W is presently doing.

So how much of this are you ok with? Likely far less than you realize. Or you’d not be bringing it up. Right?

You don’t have to solve this, just resolve it. And that opens up a lot more possibilities.


W: G, I found a free! dog training class a 45 minutes drive away (an hour for her). Do you mind if I take large dog on Saturday mornings? His barking is bothering D17 and S12.

g: Oh, I didn’t realize. I’ll speak with them. And I’ll look into the barking.


Training is an option. As well as anti-bark collars, more exercise, etc. Ensure you give yourself ample time before responding to W or her requests.


W: Hey G, I’m going to take the KitchenAid machine attachments that you and D18 don’t use. I’ll take the grain grinding attachment and to the 50lb sacks of wheat and corn, etc… if you aren’t opposed.

g: Actually, I want to keep the machine and its attachments. Are you looking to get one for yourself?


That being said, don’t sweat over a few pots and pans. Yet, don’t let it all leave the house either without some acknowledgment or agreement. Precedence is being set. Best to do it well, IMHO.

“Hmmm, let me think about that and I’ll get back to you” is a perfectly acceptable immediate response for W’s sprung upon you, ideas of her’s.

Like detaching. 24-48 hours before responding to texts or emails to ensure your reply is not emotional and it’s what you’d like to say. Similarly, buy yourself some time when it’s in person.

Hope you have a great weekend.

D


Feelings are fleeting.
Be better, not bitter.
Love the person, forgive the sin.
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