Month 13: telling kids and going public

[adinva]

After a year of in-home separation in which H was basically hiding and waiting, we've reached the point where the secrecy is only protecting his own comfort level.

So we're now making decisions about telling the kids and having H move out to begin his life as a separated guy.

In our state he can now file for divorce and he's interested in starting mediation and splitting everything up.

I'll provide links to my previous threads.

[adinva]

Hoping Friends Can Return To Lovers
Hoping 2
Hoping 3
Hoping 4
Living With No Expectations
In-Home Separation, One Year Point
In-Home Separation, One Year Point 2

[adinva]

This was my last report in the previous thread, copying it over here:

DB Bootcamp Progress:
- This morning I asked and got agreement for a weekly 1/2 hour or so that we walk or go to Starbucks and start figuring out some of the decisions that need to be made. We'll do Saturday mornings and started today.
- This morning we walked the dogs to Starbucks and talked about sleeping arrangements, the reason for secrecy, and telling the kids, plus some of the financial stuff. I'm going to write it all down here. We didn't make any decisions today but agreed that next week we'd come back with more thoughts about telling the kids and sleeping arrangements. Then after that, we'll tell the kids.

So, here's how it went...

All through we were calm and free of outbursts. I was a little emotional in terms of a tight voice but did not cry at all. Sometimes we talked about other stuff like what the dogs were doing.

I said that I had felt it was important to protect the kids from emotional turmoil in case we were able to work things out. I was certain they knew something was up, and with him now sleeping in the guest bedroom (third time last night) I was questioning whether we were protecting them for a good reason or, if he's decided to leave for sure, if we're just not letting them talk about something that is big and obvious to them. It goes against my values to have something like this that no one can talk about.

He said he is decided, no question. So I said we're no longer protecting our kids then, and we need to explain to them what's happening. He said he wasn't sure what to say. I said I had been told it's best to tell them together, to tell them that it is not their fault, and to tell them that we'll both still be their mom and their dad. I said that I wished we would have more answers for them about where they'll live and where we'll be but it seemed like we could explain what's going on and that some of these things are not yet figured out.

H said of course they will live in the house with you. If you want me to come there when it's my time with them I will, or if you want them to come where I am, that's up to you. They can do whatever they want or whatever makes sense for their schedules. I said in my opinion they should not get to decide what they want, that's too much responsibility for a kid - they need to know we're still in charge and not put these decisions on their heads. I also thought their schedules were changeable and their relationship with their dad was important enough to make a priority. I was concerned about him being a visitor or having them visit him - I have no experience with that but I know that he does and wondered how it affected him or how he felt about it. He only said well, his dad is not a good person so it's not the same.

I suggested that I do not know if it makes the most sense to keep the house, or how we'll handle him staying on as an owner, or if I can buy him out or should. He thinks this is all very simple; he'll contribute to the house and when we sell it in five years or whatever then he gets half. I told him I still felt I needed financial advice to understand the ramifications of these decisions. I told him about the options of mediation, collaborative divorce, or just paying a financial advisor to help with mediation.

I asked him how much he thinks all this would cost, and he guessed $2K. I told him about the study that suggested about $6K for mediation, about twice that for collaborative divorce. I told him that we would necessarily be adversaries in this even if we're not looking to hurt each other and I will not be able to just rely on his knowledge to protect my interests.

He said that he thought it made sense for him to keep living in the house, since he's still going to be helping pay for it and he's doing lots of valuable needed work like fixing the garage door that I shouldn't have to go hire someone to do. He said that he shouldn't have to have all his stuff out. I told him I didn't see us being "friends" and me keeping some of his stuff for him and having him come and go whenever and live in the house as a single guy. I clarified that I really wasn't sure of my feelings and tolerance and what was best for the kids or best for me, and that I needed to think about it more before I really knew what my opinion is, but I felt it would be less confusing if there were a point where he moves out and the kids begin living with him sometimes at his place and his stuff is all there.

I told him he's been sort of backing into all of this and it's been very confusing for me and probably for the kids seeing the distance grow between us and him staying out overnight more and more. Now he's sort of backing into staying in the guest bedroom, sneakily. He said he agreed he'd been backing into things but that was to make it as easy on all of us as possible. He said notice how we're not fighting and mad at each other, and we're going to be fair to each other. He claims credit for that because of how he's withheld information from us to avoid hurting us and making things difficult. I told him that we're not fighting because "I" am not a person who is going to fight with him but I certainly could have been...he hasn't been making anyone comfortable but himself, don't kid himself. I told him if he said at the beginning "I'm gay and i can't live this life anymore," this would have been done a long time ago. If he said "I'm in love with someone else and want to be with her," this might have been done a long time ago. Instead he hasn't given any real information about what's wrong or any idea of what he wants, so we're left confused and hurt and angry. He's only worried about his own comfort and pretending it's for us.

I told him I was disappointed that he didn't seem interested in learning how this would affect the kids, ie the book he didn't read. He said, "well when you wanted me to keep it out of sight I forgot about it. What does it say we should do?" I told him I hadn't read it but that my psych friend who recommended it said it would give insight into ways we might mitigate some of the problems. It followed many kids of divorce and found a strong link between that and around the age of 40 or later having trouble with longterm relationships. I told him that the financial stuff might be easy to figure out but i think it's important to think about how the kids are feeling and how we can help them. And it's important for them to think their dad wants to be with them. I don't know how it is for a boy to go "visit" his dad, but I worry that he's not planning for them living wtih him at all.

He is planning to live with his friend for a while. He has no plans yet to look for an apartment. I asked if he'd look for something in their school district so he has a chance to really parent them. We talked about his friend's morals and if it would be acceptable for his friend to not have overnight women when the kids are staying with him. I don't think it's reasonable to expect the friend to change his lifestyle to accommodate our kids' needs but maybe he's willing to do it short term. We discussed the recent situation where this friend slept with another friend's girlfriend setting off a dispute with his own girlfriend that got the police involved. Does he want this around his boys? H said the friend didn't sleep with her he just saw her naked (different story from what I was told by our friend) and it occurred at a different house.... I suggested that these particular details don't matter as much as the environment our kids are in and if it is healthy for them.

We talked about finances. H said it's simple because we started with nothing and don't have much to split, and nothing complicated. We'll split the house and 401(k) and bank accounts 50/50, he takes his car I take mine, and he doesn't want the furniture and stuff. All he wants is his guns, his car and his money. I said, and your kids...? I worry about the tax implications of different decisions, and how I'll set up a future when I may need to be spending money that was supposed to be for retirement.

I asked him what he was hoping for, what was the life he wanted that was worth spending all this and giving up all this, and hurting so many people for? He said, I don't know. I said, that can't be. You must have some idea of what you wanted to achieve out of this. He said, he was just "uncomfortable." He said he doesn't want to say because then it would just be harder but the result would be the same. I said no it's equally hard either way because the result is the same, but it's harder on us trying to guess what happened to us. This didn't go anywhere but this may have been where we had the discussion of how this was all orchestrated to save HIM from discomfort.

I'm frustrated but not surprised that he's written this as he's the good guy for being so nice about this and making it non-acrimonious. No mention or appreciation for how I've contributed through the year of patiently waiting and working with him despite the great pain I was in. This is just typical.

Finally, I said that I felt sad that he thought his feelings were set on this and not worth looking at or seeing if they could change. After all, they changed to what they are. I had hoped we might be able to say we really tried to fix this, but he did not, not at all. When we met with our minister before our marriage, we asked him what was the secret for a long and happy marriage, and he said among other things, that you have to understand, sometimes your feelings won't be there and you need to know they'll ebb and flow and you get through those parts. He seems to have forgotten that, and to give up after 18 years without looking into that and giving a try, that is sad.

That's all I can remember. I don't say I'm done DBing, but I don't want to keep enabling him. I don't think we're being fair to the kids. I don't think he's willing to be real with me and he's not looking back. Making our exterior match our interior seems necessary to me now.

[bustingout]

Hi advina, am thinking about you over he and sending you a huge hug. You are so strong and resilient and amazing.

And man, talk about kick a$$ just reading how to do that pyramid thing was a work out in itself!

((( )))

[adinva]

This is my bootcamp-style self prescribed goal setting effort:

Bootcamp Knockoff! I don't feel worthy of asking for help since I've been here over a year and get lots of help from vets and not-vets, but I do like the bootcamp idea so I'm sort of doing it in parallel. I've been reading the other people's bootcamps with great interest and decided that my weak area is goal setting. So I'm going to write to myself in my own thread to kickstart my goal setting into higher gear and get better at it by focusing on it. If anyone comes to help coach me that's great.

So. I started by telling my IC today that I want to get more consciously solution focused and get some more concrete things to do and monitor. I have two weak areas to start with and they're pretty broad. 1. Physical fitness, and 2. Setting boundaries.

Physical fitness, my goal is to get more disciplined with WW tracking and to work out more regularly, so I broke that down into the following:
- From now to next Friday, I will track all meals and snacks 5 out of 7 days.
- From now to next Friday, I will do a mile swim 3 days, an hour walk/jog 3 days, and a sit-up/push-up pyramid up to 5 and back 3 days.
- By next Friday I'll sign up for either a meetup hike or a 5-K during the month of July.

Setting Boundaries came up because I have done really well (I think) with GAL and with letting my H have space and not pursuing or pressuring him, and I'm a little lost in terms of where I stand or how I really feel about what's happening and all the decisions that will need to be made. I'm so used to accepting whatever H does lately, staying out all night, leaving everything about the kids to me, not talking about things, that now that I need to think about whether I even want him in the house, I barely know my own opinion. So IC suggested I try putting in outline form my boundaries in specific areas such as where we stay (am I ok with him moving into the guest room and for how long will I be ok with that? What do I expect for ground rules), what we'll do with the kids (am I ok with taking on all the childcare during our separation? what should I reasonably ask of him? How will this be different if/when he leaves the house?). It's a little fuzzy to me now but it seemed really clear at the end of IC and I felt like I had a good solid charge. To make it more concrete:
- This week I will ask H if he'd be willing to meet with me once a week for 30 minutes so we can start talking about the things that are up in the air, without feeling like we're being ambushed in the hallway or bathroom. For example, AM coffee at Starbucks every Saturday. Assuming the answer is yes...
- This week I will meet once with him to ask him his thoughts about explaining to the kids what is going on. I believe the kids are aware that he's (sneaking) into the guestroom at night, and they definitely have an idea what that means, but no one is talking about it. That goes against my values. If H is in any way working on our marriage and possibly in flux on the decision I can support keeping it quiet, but if not, I'm not in favor of the sneaking around and not talking. I want to broach this subject with H and consider both of us thinking about it until next weekend.
- I will start an outline in my journal examining my feelings on at least one issue like sleeping arrangements. I feel all over the map. I don't want to kick him out, I don't want him in the guest room, I'm tired of keeping this secret if it isn't in flux, and then I don't know anything and want to go hide. I'd like to save the money he'd have to spend on rent, but when I think about having him stay in the guestroom I feel like I'd be taking care of another kid, all the bad parts of marriage without any of the good. My IC said I'd know where to draw the line when I get a yuk feeling, and I kind of feel that about the guest bedroom arrangement, and yet I feel guilty making the kids' dad move out. So if I can crystallize my thoughts on that one issue this week, even just wht my thoughts are at the moment, that would be a step forward.

So. are these enough goals? are they focused enough?

Today I accomplished my 2nd and 3rd goals under Boundaries and got a couple of hours hiking in just going back and forth to Starbucks for the wi-fi (East coast storms last night knocked out our cable). More to do still, and need to get a start on cleaning out the garage too, a commitment made to H last weekend.

I'm feeling ok. Pretty strong, and occasionally grateful that I'm a lucky person to be getting a 'do-over', and then occasionally feeling a little tearful and afraid. When that happens, it's easy enough to acknowledge that is borrowing trouble from the future and so I stop and note that right now I feel good.

I thought of an important thing to add for Crazyville - on why and how I keep my focus on the bright side of things. I wanted to mention that I have a regular and conscious habit of filling up m y cup at every opportunity. Like a camel I guess, knowing that it may be a while. I get joy from sunsets, and no one's crap can take that from me. I'll drink deeply at the experience of a glorious sky with the beams radiating from the sun through the clouds and the colors just overwhelming. And so grateful to get that almost every day. I also love to catch my favorite constellation, Orion. I love to see my eyes reflected in a car window at night when I'm a passenger. I love to see the moon follow me as I drive. Love clouds in the daytime - finding shapes or just the 3-D outrageous puffiness of them. Happy when I put on polarizing sunglasses and look around at the colors. Happy when I pet my dogs and goof around with them. Happy when I see my boys, awake or sleeping. The scent of a flower - I planted scented flowers all around my yard and cut them to bring inside in huge boquets - roses and roses, peonies, daffodils, gladiolus, phlox, and iris. That fills my cup. The smell of grinding coffee, mmmm. A campfire or a fire pit in my backyard. Savoring a glass of wine.

I really don't need anybody, and I can live with a whole lot of crap, because I have these things that no one can take from me or reduce my pleasure in. And filling up with those, lessens the impact of things that might bother me more.

It may seem trite, but it works for me, really.

[bustingout]

I just love this. You are so right. No one can take that away.

I needed this tonight advina. I was doing exactly that most of the day...borrowing troule from the future.

Right now I am good. I am good.

Thanks.

((( )))

[breakdownbill]

Adinva - you are so strong. I love the way you stick to your guns (boundaries, morals), no matter what's happening in your sitch or what criticism you may get on here.

I could do with some of your courage & conviction right now, you really are an inspiration.

Bill

[Accuray]

Ad,

I read your long post with your update. It was bittersweet to read because it's obviously a big change in your sitch. You've been in limbo for so long -- in some strange way it must be a relief to see some movement of any kind.

H's assertion that the improvement in your relationship was due to his non-efforts is laughable and at the same time infuriating. I also found it interesting that he admitted he's been keeping secrets "to protect you", but he's still not willing to divulge what they are -- did I read that right?

Are you going to press that point or do you really not care? I know you've historically said it doesn't really matter to you because it is what it is. For me, I would HAVE to know, I'd be tortured by it. Particularly if there is something going on (like an affair) that would block the effect of all your efforts to date. I firmly believe that if there is OM/OW involved all you can do is tread water and not make things worse, no matter how sharp your DB skills are -- and you've gotten quite expert at it.

I have no real advice to offer as it seems you're taking the bull by the horns, but I did want to chime in and offer my support and encouragement. Watching you is like watching a "Rocky" movie, you're going to have the whole place chanting your name in awe of your spirit.

Accuray

[Crazyville]

Thanks, Ad, for the visual. I do the same thing. I was out on the deck this morning watching the yellow finches pluck seeds from my verbena, hanging upsidedown, chatting amongst themselves. And clouds are one of my favorites. Years ago, I wasted an entire roll of film taking pictures of clouds (photos don't do them justice, btw.) My dad thought I was nuts. So I get that, I really do.

I really don't need anybody, and I can live with a whole lot of crap, because I have these things that no one can take from me or reduce my pleasure in.

But this is where I lose it. I don't really need anybody either, and oftentimes am happiest alone. At this point, my logical brain kicks in and I think to myself, "I can either sit here watching the finches pluck seeds while my H cr@ps on me, or I can leave and watch the robins hunt worms without his cr@p spoiling it," and I would choose to leave. What is your motivation for staying and putting up with the cr@p, at least when there's an option? I get it when there's no choice (annoying person at work, for example.) But life offers so many options. When your H consistently does something problematic (figuratively, take food off your plate,) how do you choose to expose yourself again when you don't have to?

Your sitch is so fascinating for me. I relate to so much. Some of it from your side, some of it from your H's side. I also see my H in both of you in many ways. But the boundaries are all blurred.

[Rick1963]

AD going public is a big deal. It really helped me feel free. It kind of gives you some power over your life. It forces you to accept the reality and move forward. You will feel uncomfortable at first. You may find yourself defending H. But it will get easier and the shame starts to go away. You don't have to give details but if people ask just say yes we are separated/ divorcing however you want to phrase it. Good luck let us know how it goes