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#2240674 04/25/12 04:07 PM
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zig Offline OP
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me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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zig Offline OP
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me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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copied my last post into here - for continuity
thanks
zig


so a strange thing happened yesterday with h. strange in the way that i recognized a pattern within myself that i was unaware of. it has to do with him being responsible for his part - how i let him off the hook, without even realizing it.

so if anyone can help me to figure out how i can rectify this, i would be really grateful.

2 weeks ago we had our first therapy session with the child counselor. h and i agreed that we would go in 2 weeks again and he would make the appointment. i didn't hear from him about this for the whole of the first week, and finally sent him a simple email "haven't heard from you about what time the appointment is, could you let me know please"

no reply. i decided that i wouldn't force the issue or ask - was in a whatever happens, happens state of mind.

yesterday (the day we had agreed to have the next apptmt - he said that well i suppose we should have been going to this appointment today - but i haven't made it yet - i tried to call 3 times and no one picked up the phone (???????)

i guess i didn't realize how "angry" i was that 1. he hadn't made the appointment and 2. hadn't acknowledged my email and 3. basically pretended nothing was happening

my reaction during the phone call was basically - well, it doesn't seem as if you want to go so there isn't much point in going is there - he did try to suggest that maybe we should go, but then let himself off the hook by adding - well it's probably better we should talk a lot together and define what we are doing before we go.

afterwards - i realized i had done several things inadvertently
1. let him off the responsibility of making sure s was okay
2. letting him make it seem as if going to this therapist is about us and not about son
3. being sullen, myself, and reacting with the attitude of well if you're not going to try, i'm not going to either

#3 is something i definitely did during the M when i got fed up. funny i haven't seen it until now

so i need help with

1. i'm considering emailing him and saying that after thinking about it, i realize that it is very important that we continue to go see C and that we should make the appointment for sooner than later

2. am i pressuring him? - yes i know the answer to that - when it comes to the kids, they are first priority

3. i have agreed to talk with him one on one, but am really wondering today whether that is a good idea - i feel he uses these conversations to keep us in a state of chaos. his evasive way of speaking makes me really nervous and i keep thinking that there is a hidden agenda. we don't really get anywhere, and because i don't want to push him, i get frustrated

i think i'm trying to figure out here whether there is any point in talking with him at all. if i say no - would i be losing the opportunity to make things better between us, or is that just wishful thinking on a large scale at this point

i'm thinking of saying - "the only issues we need to resolve are those concerning son - and we need to do that within the structure of the therapy sessions. there is really nothing else that we need to talk about as you have made your plans very clear"

thanks for the help

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Hey zig. i'm gonna aske what some one asked me. Are you and introvert/extrovert? Is your H an introvert/ extrovert. Not sure if I have asked this before.

"3. being sullen, myself, and reacting with the attitude of well if you're not going to try, i'm not going to either"

This^^^definetly sounds passive/aggressive. i'm guilty of that too. It destroys relationships.


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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zig Offline OP
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i know - i saw that only yesterday - trying not to beat myself up over it too much, but to understand what i'm doing and to stop doing it

i think, in spite of the changes that i have made, my biggest challenge here i that i have EXPECTATIONS!

even though i keep saying that i don't - i still do.

i've been inspecting what i have been going through, and the reaction that i have been having during this last week and a half after he told me about buying the house.

it's very sad that i am still following a pattern that was deeply ingrained in the relationship. it goes like this.

"i am trying to do my best to make things better for us, no matter what i do, there seems to be no effect, and then when there's proof that nothing is better, i get mad and act a bit sullen and off hand - fine if you're not going to try , i won't either" -sort of scenario.

for the last couple of weeks i have found myself thinking - there are still lessons to be learned here for me,i don't see them yet but they will come one after the oterh, and i need to be open to them .

so this is one of the things that i needed to find within myself that needs to be rectified.

as for introvert/extrovert.

i've always thought i was the extrovert and him and s are the introverts - emotionally. i don't know if i'm getting the interpretation correct - i'm all for splaying my feelings in the open and getting through and resolving them (as evidenced in my posts, grin), while the 2 of them have a really painful time even acknowledging that they HAVE feelings

what are your thoughts on that, ces? any advice on how to handle h when he is painfully unable to express his feelings?

thanks
zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Ahhh....


Since we have been talking about communication styles, and triggers for you that leave you in a reactive state ( and not very good at it BTW )


My x was an extrovert, very outgoing ( Italian, you know what I mean ). Over the years, I had patterned myself to dealing with myself in terms of communicating with her. I am somewhat an introvert . So the only way I really ever expressed myself, or interpreted myself in the relationship, was what I knew.

I dealt with her like she was an introvert, because that is the way I communicated. I didn't understand the difference in the two. Hell, maybe I would go as far as saying that I didn't know there was a different way.

When we would talk, HER answers were right there. I missed a LOT of them though, because I expected her to communicate with me on my terms. That led to a LOT of unfulfilled conversations from me. It led to frustrations because it was not the way I communicated. My frustration would lead to anger, much the same way you have described.

My partner now, is an introvert. And what I learned (the hard way ) , was the difference between the two communications styles. It wasn't until I met her, that it even occurred to me.

I would ask a question on my time, and expect an answer on my time.

What I learned was, that with communication with an introvert. (especially if you are an extrovert). We can ask questions on our time, although the answers come on their time. Sometimes I wait for days for an answer.

What I was doing with her was....I was asking these questions, and she would feel "pushed" for an answer, because she wasn't ready. And in time, she would feel over run, because the questions would stack up in her brain. One after another, before she could answer the first one....

This also led to some very frustrating times, until I learned to ask one thing...then wait for the answer. I pour a tall glass of STFU, until her answers come to her.

What this did, was allow me to step back, and relieve a lot of frustration on my end, because I was eliminating my expectations.

I removed MY triggers for frustration turning towards anger at her....by simply recognizing and removing those expectations.



Just something to think about.....



Zig Mach1 posted this^^^^ to me a while back. Look at it and see if it helps. I'm a loed extrovert grin


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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thanks so much rick - and i have to confess that i read this months ago, and forgot!!!

but here's the question - in the situation which i described above - how do i wait for an answer when he was supposed to make the appointment and didn't in the time frame we had decided on together?

do i still wait and when he "tentatively" asks me on the day we are supposed to go whether he should make it or not? do i call him up on it - point out that i had set the time aside for this important thing and then not even been informed.

or do i graciously agree and so yes, at your convenience?

i'm not being sarcastic but i guess on some level i viewed his actions as passive aggressive too. staying passive by not doing what was agreed or answering my email and then getting slightly aggressive in shifting the focus to being US needing to talk rather than going to the therapist.

i would love to hear your opinion on how should handle the above situation. and thanks again for posting this - i will remember it now, that we do have different styles

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Aug 2011
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Zig maybe I'm confused. But if the therapy is for your son why don't you make the appointmnet and let H know of the date? Usually an appoinment is made at the end of a session for the next session. How come this didn't happen? You guys sound very similar as to how my W and I did things. usually ended in an arguement.


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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zig Offline OP
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well - i work at home and h works at the uni - and has a crazy schedule that is different every week. even if i make the appointment, i would have to call back and forth 2 or 3 times to get the time right for him.

at the end of the first appointment - i watched the following:

we came out, and h was definitely struggling. he was trying to swagger and be all confident and when he paid, she asked him if he wanted to set up the next one. he said yes, and as she pulled up the calendar he got all anxious and sputtered something about how could he possibly make the appointment , he didn't have his calendar etc., he would have to call back. i calmly told him in a reassuring voice that that was perfectly ok.

in the car - i wrote the details in a post on my last thread - but he basically said that he wanted to go every 2 weeks and he would call and make the appointment.

i trusted him to do that - and you know the rest.

i see the pattern from earlier - last week i was thinking that, sh$t i shouldn't push him - his not calling me back is his way of telling me he doesn't want to go.

should i force it or let it be?

he knows (because he told me) that this is going to bring up stuff his words - "we should go, this will teach us a lot about ourselves. "

i think 2 weeks ago he was a bit braver and after he found out that the C picked up on the "real "picture right away, that he needed to work on himself in order to help son, and he heard some of the things that the rest of the family have witnessed with son's pain, he pulled back and freaked out a bit.

he's like a skittish horse these last 3 weeks - and i'm trying to tread carefully here - right now he's "safe" in terms of s doing well - he's got s all excited about his house and how it's going to be such a great project fixing it together this summer (he's reliving the good times with his father - they did that every summer since he was 5)

it was VERY significant for him - that when he was young his father moved out for 4 months how badly it affected him - in fact i don't think he is really aware of how badly. he remembers it as having happened when he was 10, but i found out from his mom after the sitch started that he was 16!!!

his mom told me that a couple of years ago he cam and said to her "thank you so much for staying together - i know you did it because of us kids and i am so grateful that you did"

his BIGGEST reason fro leaving is that son is doing GREAT and soooo much better and he talks that up non-stop. it is really transparent to me that as long as he can stay convinced of that then what he is doing is just fine.

didn't mean to go off on the side - but i was giving you some background - this is why i think he doesn't really want to go. he doesn't want to find out the real deal of how this will affect son. if he had to hear it especially from a therapist - he'd have to rethink what he's doing and he's not ready for it yet.

so do i push and make sure this happens. all my friends and both families are adamant that we should go for s's sake. i agree too

thanks for helping me out here rick - really appreciate it

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 1,855
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" Does it change any of your goals? Does it make you question them? IMO, the external should not direct the internal. Or, what goes on outside of us shouldn't direct who we are on the inside. The internal drives how we respond and relate to the external. Keep focus on yourself and who you want to be and how you want to heal. "

this written from ces a couple of weeks ago.

after going through what i realize was my panic mode as reaction to h buying a house, i feel i have calmed down and found one more layer of strength and refocus here.

my challenges for myself
1. to stop letting the external direct the internal - i'm suddenly much more aware of how much i let what others are doing and saying affect me. i'm seeing now how i get resentful and blameful in retaliation and even though i "act" as if i'm okay, it comes through

so i am focusing on only myself and feeling good no matter what is going on around me

2.forgiveness: i'm really working on forgiving myself as well as h. thinking a lot about what unconditional love means and how my perspective needs to change on that. i',m starting to be more aware that forgiveness is for myself and will bring me peace

3. continuing to work on letting go - i'm getting better at it - and as i get better at it , it is getting easier to be around h and s

i know my biggest challenge is my reactivity. i'm really much better now at the smaller less important things, but need to work a lot on how i react with h.

so today is a good day as i continue along my path. i am already in the process of "separating" myself from the marriage and starting to really feel like my own person. not just the LBS - which is what i've felt all these months..


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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