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#2227749 03/05/12 07:49 PM
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Well, dear friends, I had a long lapse again, not talking to you for a while. I don't think it was necessarily a bad thing per se to be away for a while, as I was spending more time working on my own issues, particularly anger issues, and just didn't have the time to stay on the board. However, I find there are times when I could have used the support, and find that, whatever my reasons for being away for a while, I really need to be here.

OK, so, for those who are interested, here is the link to my last thread:

http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2208358&page=1

Since that time things have gotten worse. A LOT worse. I don't really know how to sum it all up without writing a novel, which I don't have time for (and I don't know if anyone has time to read), but I will try.

W is pregnant, which had things going a little better, as we had something positive to look forward to. In fact, there had been some positive stuff going on for a while (how d'ya think she GOT pregnant?). But all this positive stuff was shaky at best - one day things would be a little better, the next we would hardly be speaking.

A few things happened that set the stage for the current mess, although I think these things just set things in motion that had already been ready to collapse. One time when we were ML, I was very clumsy, and when W responded by telling me it hurt, I tried to change what I was doing. Nothing changed, she told me it felt the same, I tried to change again, didn't work, I panicked, tried to change again (repeat cycle several times) until she finally told me to stop. I had kept trying to change; it never occurred to me to just stop until she said so. I felt completely stupid, and apologized, but it gave her the impression that I don't listen to her, despite my explaining that I had been in "panic mode," and she lost trust. Whenever we are in MC, she brings that up, and my explanations don't matter - the impact the event had on her is what it is, and my explanations don't change her feelings. I've finally learned to realize that - what she feels is what she feels, and her feelings are not "wrong."

Another major turning point was when W and I were discussing this issue. She was in tears, telling me how much I had hurt her, broken her trust, and how she saw my behavior signifying that she didn't matter to me, and then talking about all the other ways that my behavior suggested that I was disregarding her. She wouldn't let me near her to comfort her, and her statements of how bad I had been to her kept piling up, and there was nothing I could say or do. I wanted so badly to do something to make her feel better, and I felt so guilty, and I was overwhelmed!

I had what is called a "meltdown." At least that is what people informally call it - there isn't a technical term I am aware of.

You see, I have Asperger's Disorder. It's related to Autism, but usually people can manage a career, and a regular life. Some people with Asperger's can become overstimulated or overwhelmed with circumstances, intense emotions, etc., and then they lose control of themselves. It's called a meltdown.

I started slamming my head against a wall - hard. I shouted out about how bad I was, and asked God to end my life. As childish or bizarre as this behavior seems to you when you read it, that is how embarrassed I am to put it out there. How embarrassed I felt when, moments later, I caught myself and forced myself to stop, and apologized to W.

It wasn't the first meltdown W had seen. In fact, this one was unusually short, and I was able to catch myself much earlier than those I had experienced in the past. But it was still too late.

At our next MC, W told me that she does not feel safe with me (although I would never dream of becoming violent toward her), and that she does not want to talk to me anymore, as she is afraid to talk about anything serious, for fear it will cause another meltdown. She feels that she has exhausted all her emotional resources to remain in this M, but she is willing to continue to live in the same house, for the sake of the kids.

We worked out an arrangement - we don't talk when we are alone. Only speak on functional topics (who's going to drive the kids to karate, etc.). Now I am sleeping on an air mattress on the floor of a crowded basement. This is the state of our M, with a baby on the way.

I don't know how coherent that all was - it's kind of a jumble in my mind. If you have any questions, I'll gladly answer them. I'm just hoping for someone to talk to. I feel really alone.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
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Someone challenged me about the feelings of shame. What are you ashamed of? I have had my own meltdowns mostly in anger. Let me ask you, can u control you meltdowns? When I got angry, I felt out of control, but TBH I gave myself permission, I wanted to be angry and have a meltdown. I don't have Aperger's DX.


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Rick,

Thanks for responding to me so soon.

Honestly, I don't feel in control when I am having a meltdown. I can say that there have been times in the past when I can remember, as you say, "Giving myself permission," but this last time it didn't feel that way. It seemed like there was too much, and I freaked out.

As for the shame - well, right now, I feel ashamed of my meltdown. I also feel ashamed of my failure to control myself enough that W can feel safe, failure to maintain a normal M with a woman who obviously was willing to give me hundreds of "second chances..." I can't even say how many things I am ashamed of.

Where exactly were you going with that?


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
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Shame says to me that you have more control over your actions. Is like having an A and feeling bad afterwards. Maybe I am wrong I dunno. If you had psychosis and didn;t remember the stuff you said while psychotic you probably would have no shame. I have also noticed that when DBers don't post for a while they get into trouble. It tells me that they think they got it under control, but they come back and things are always worse. just some things to think about


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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Thanks, I appreciate the food for thought.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
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"Another major turning point was when W and I were discussing this issue. She was in tears, telling me how much I had hurt her, broken her trust, and how she saw my behavior signifying that she didn't matter to me, and then talking about all the other ways that my behavior suggested that I was disregarding her. She wouldn't let me near her to comfort her, and her statements of how bad I had been to her kept piling up, and there was nothing I could say or do. I wanted so badly to do something to make her feel better, and I felt so guilty, and I was overwhelmed! "

i don't know your whole story,only read the posts here on this thread - am so sorry you are going through this.

i don't have asperger's but what i have had and come out of recently is post concussion syndrome. all neuro conditions share similarities and i think that one of them is getting overwhelmed and is probably one of the most challenging to deal with. even now after all this time, it is the one i battle with the most.

i don't know if this would help you, but what my therapist taught me when things started getting really bad - (my meltdown's involved a lot of shouting and anger and a couple of times breaking things) was that by the time i realized i was overwhelmed and started acting on it (you banging your head, me shouting) , i was already at a 7 or 8 on a scale from 1 to 10. and that by then it was too late.

she taught me to recognize the signs when it was at a 1 or 2 - if you inspect what you're feeling more closely as the discussion proceeds, you WILL learn to recognize it earlier and earlier.

and when you start to recognize the trigger, MAKE yourself stop right there, tell your spouse that you are going to get overwhelmed and you need time and space to let your brain calm down, and WALK AWAY! you are no good to yourself or anyone else after you hit a 5 or 6 , much less an 8.

my therapist told me also that to let my spouse know beforehand that this is what i was going to do.

sadly in my case, with my H - even though i explained and explained, and actually really got very good at recognizing right away that i needed the space, stating it and walking away, H did not even once allow it to me - he would give me a minute and then come after me and start up agin - i would say once again "i'm overwhelmed, give me some time" and he would once again repeat the same thing - this would go on until i "lost it"

when i look back, i see the pattern - it had always been there, even before, but got really exagerrated with my health issues.

what i didn't see at the time and which i see much more clearly now is that H used this to his advantage - he could see i was overwhelmed - badly, but wanted to make his point so much that he was willing to push me over the edge, and then turn around and say - see i was right - you always lose it and you are oh so angry and put all the blame on me, and the actual issue became hidden in the chaos

i wish i had had the presence of mind during those moments to actually walk out of the house, get in the car and drive away. but my brain would be so overwhelmed and on some level, i actually kept trusting that H would help me out rather than attack me

i'm sorry to be blunt and i hope you don't mind me saying this, but to me it sounds as if Wife KNOWS your triggers really well and is using them against you. do a 180 with this, if you can and as soon as she starts berating you in the way you described in the post - find what will suit you - if in the past you stood there and had a meltdown, find the courage and strength to get your car keys or your bicycle or whatever and walk out the door, saying we can talk about this, when you want to talk about the real issue, but not if you keep going on about the same thing

another thing the therapist taught me is that this is associated with flight or fight syndrome. when the brain gets overwhelmed and it does very easily in neuro conditions the amygdala (primitive part of our brains) kicks in, and it has only two options available to it - stay and fight (that's the reaction we are having that seems out of control) or fly (get away from the danger - in this case the pressure form the other person)

i wish you well - it took me a long time to retrain my brain to recognize the beginning stages of getting overwhelmed - i was lucky that my therapist could teach me this


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Zig -

Thanks. I don't really know if W is deliberately "pushing my buttons." Her tears seem too sincere when she talks about how hurt she is, and I have no signals that she actually wants to end M.

But the rest of the stuff you said was spot on. I have been told to do that before, but some things got in the way. First, one of the features of Asperger's is that a person has difficulty recognizing their own emotions, so you can see how that would make things difficult. Secondly, I was impatient. Partly it's my own impatience, wanting to find a solution that would work right away, but it was also my situation. By the time I started looking for a solution, things had already gotten pretty bad, and W had gotten skittish about approaching me for any serious conversations, so I didn't get many opportunities to practice my skill of recognizing my "warning signs." And, since learning a skill like that is something of a trial and error process, I was bound to fail the first few times. The problem was that each time I failed, W would wait longer before I would ever get a chance again - and each time I failed, she would feel more profoundly hurt, causing what I now see to have been crushing damage to our relationship. So, even when I did try to work on myself, it just wasn't enough.

Now I am sleeping on an air mattress on the basement floor, where it just barely fits between the desk and the furnace. W doesn't talk to me, and has said explicitly that she doesn't want me to talk to her except minimal functional communication, and that only when others are present. But, oddly enough, all this actually has some upsides. At least, with no demands to maintain a relationship, I have some extra space to take the time to work on myself - to try to learn my "warning signs" for loss of control. I don't have much to make me angry such that I would get a chance to observe these, but I can reflect, learn more about myself, and try to get a better sense of myself, so maybe I will be more secure if we ever come back together. Otherwise, I guess it's not a waste of time to just try to be a better person.

I appreciate your sharing - and I'm so sorry to hear what H did to you (read in your signature). Sometimes it makes me so angry to hear that guys will throw away a R with a W who loves them and wants to try to make it work, when I would be heart-rendingly grateful to just have another chance with my W. Like a starving child looking at others thowing away food. I'd just like to smack him upside the head and tell him what he's throwing away.

OK, I'm done ranting. Thanks again.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
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i'm glad that my sharing what i experienced with you has helped in anyway - and i'm sorry about the sleeping sitch you're in.

though your positive outlook on it giving you space and time to work on yourself is a great thing to read - and helps me. my H has left town for a month, and i really need to use the time and space to work on myself.

btw - my H was really sincere too, when he told me repeatedly with much sympathetic emotion,for the last 2 years how disabled and helpless i was (because he chose to see me that way)

if she is so hurt, then why is she controlling the sitch now by "not allowing "you to speak with her? sorry to be blunt, but if you're saying that she isn't showing any signs of wanting to end the marriage - why is she controlling the sitch by not allowing you to talk to her, and what does that mean for you, and what are your boundaries for her setting the rules?

as for what H has "done to me" - thanks for your sympathy - but it works both ways - and i really feel that both H and I brought our relationship to that point together. i'm definitely NOT responsible for his decision to solve problems by having an affair and leaving, but i am half responsible for the sorry state our relationship got to, when it happened

hope your day is going well - btw - i don't know if this would work for you, but meditation really helped me to solidify the ability to stay calm while dealing with H - it helps to rewire your brain to a much calmer state.


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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hey psych77 - i think the tone of my last message to you was a bit hard and uncompromising- i'm sorry about that - terribly sorry. i should have waited until i was in a better mood to write back to you - it was my own mood coming through, frustration at my H and my own sitch - that was shading my reply

please forgive me - i am sure, as you say that your W was genuine in her hurt - and inciting you to be mad about the way she is dealing with it, by not allowing you guys to talk, - was suggesting the wrong way to look at things

i guess it triggered off my own experience where, whenever my H or I were hurt about something, instead of staying open and vulnerable and working through it, we would just shut down and it was so frustrating


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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Zig - No problem. If we were all in our best emotional place, I guess none of us would be here. I'm just glad that there is someone here I relate to, to talk with.

W has a long history of abuse from her family of origin, and I think that is a part of what has her shut down now. I think she sees cutting off communication as a form of self preservation, because the fear caused by me losing control is too much for her.

I think that the best thing I can do for both of us is to give her space, and respect the boundaries she has put up.

I don't like sleeping in the basement, but I would like it less if we had to live separately - I think of what the impact of that would be on our kids...including one on the way. Wow, it's overwhelming to even think of that. Anyway, at least their life is less disrupted if we can be "separate" while living in the same house. I love them, and really don't want them to be hurt while we go through this.


Think about it...if you met a potential mate who was nothing but a bundle of needs, would YOU be attracted to them?
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