My wife had a tough childhood, with an abusive Mom at home, and being made an outcast in school. Because of her childhood situation she has always been very shy and reserved, preferring to avoid most social interaction. We met young, 16 her and 18 me, dated exclusively for 4 years, and now have been married for 29. We never had kids and always got along well. When her Mom died last December, she began to analyze her entire life, then gave me the ILYBINILWY speech in March this year. She now has decided that she needs to leave our marriage to find out who she is, and find the passion she doesn't feel for me with somebody new. Up until this point, I thought we had a great relationship and a lifelong commitment to each other.
She says we were too young and married for the wrong reasons, (she just wanted out of her dysfunctional home) and is convinced she never was truly happy. She has given me several reasons why I never measured up, and how I can never change. Most of all though, she believes she never felt any sexual attraction for me, and never will. My perception is we had a hot first 3 years, and then she cooled off quite a bit. After fighting over our mismatched sex drives for a brief period many years ago, we reached a balance where we both were satisfied for years. Until now that is. Now she wants more passion, but not with me! She considers us like brother and sister, or "really good friends". I need her to be my lover.
We still live in the same home but now sleep in separate bedrooms per her request, and she has cut off almost all physical contact. We still get along good, but there is often tension between us due to the mismatch of our desires for our future. There doesn't appear to be another man in her life at this point, but "To find real passion at least once in my life" is a stated goal. Ugh.
Immediately after the bomb drop in March, I started working on myself and our relationship with [*edited by dbmod, specific references not recommended nor allowed], Divorce Remedy, I Love you but I'm not in love with you (Andrew Marshall) and a few other books. Following the advice given has helped. Not pressuring or pursuing her caused her to relax her rush to make a hasty exit, and we still get along well day to day. I'm (mostly) being pleasant and positive as I work on building up our already decent connection. Even so, after 5 months of this I'm beginning to feel discouraged by our lack of progress, as she still sees no hope for us to ever be lovers and barely lets me touch her. I'm working feverishly and it's starting to wear me down.
I feel like I can't go on like this for much longer, which is why I am posting here looking for support to help me stay on course or try something new. I feel I may soon blow up and throw down an ultimatum, and I doubt that will help me reach my goal to build a passionate sexual relationship with my life partner. Please help!
Last edited by dbmod; 08/28/1212:38 AM.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Welcome to divorcebusting.com. As you will see in Divorce Remedy ... an ultimatum is the AFTER THE LAST RESORT technique...and while you have READ a lot, it doesn't mean you have necessarily TRIED a lot in a productive manner.
We are here to help you brainstorm some solutions and give you support, you will find some really great advice.
Be patient. Work through it. Begin as if the problem were new and you've had no advice. It will be worth it.
On a side note, a couple of your references have been edited, as in the specific references are known to be contrary to DB advice.
What I really am hoping for from fellow DB forum members is support to carry on working on myself and our relationship, when things are feeling so hopeless. I’m doing good at GAL (actually felt I already had a good life outside of our relationship, unlike her who did very little on her own) and acting as if everything is ok is easy for me to do. Even so, we seem to be at a standstill.
She is trying to pull away from me, and plans and does things on her own instead of with me. I have never held her back from trying new things or going out with friends, in fact I always encouraged it. But, because of her recent admission of wanting to find love elsewhere, I’m now quite uncomfortable with her staying out late at night or going on vacations without me. She also just signed up on Facebook for the first time. More fun on her own.
Obviously I still need to let her do her thing, but I also need her to spend fun time with me if I ever expect her to want to re-commit. How should I proceed? Should I voice my concerns? I can see how doing so may cause her to feel controlled, but keeping it inside me doesn’t seem a very good long term strategy either. For true passion to exist, both partners must feel comfortable enough to confide in each other. I feel she is still confiding everything with me. I’m still her best friend.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Sorry to find yourself here. But you've come to the right place to set your M back on rack.
So to answer your questions.
"Obviously I still need to let her do her thing, but I also need her to spend fun time with me if I ever expect her to want to re-commit."
No because she doesn't want to be around you right now.
"How should I proceed? Should I voice my concerns?"
No and no.
"I can see how doing so may cause her to feel controlled, but keeping it inside me doesn’t seem a very good long term strategy either."
Is this about her or you? She left you remember? So unfortunately for the time being it has to be about her needs and what she wants.
"For true passion to exist, both partners must feel comfortable enough to confide in each other."
To an extent. Confiding in one another is not the same as intimacy which is what drives passion. Intimacy is when both people trust enough to expose themselves physically/spiritually/emotionally to one another. With your W confiding in you (which you think) is like her talking to a girlfriend.
"I feel she is still confiding everything with me. I’m still her best friend."
There's a difference between a best friend and a lover. Right now she set up a clear boundary with you.
What have you done so far in terms of GAL? What were the main issues in the M? Be as detailed as possible. What were her gripes?
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
What were the main issues in the M? Be as detailed as possible. What were her gripes?
The main issue is she says she is not attracted to me sexually. Even claims she never truly was. But this only came out after her Mom’s passing. Physically I’m in great shape, am very active, and look much younger than my age. Of course attraction is more than just physical, so obviously I've been doing something that made me unattractive in her eyes.
Other issues that have been mentioned by her are: “I feel like I’m driving the boat” “you’re a boy, not a man” and “I want someone to show me the world” which I understand as she feels she’s been running the marriage, and I've just skated along for the ride. She probably wished I would have taken more charge of things and lead the way. It’s hard for me to do this now when she wants less to do with me.
She also complained that I didn’t support her properly through Mom’s final year and funeral. (fair enough, but I did my best) Honestly, it seems she is mostly upset with choices she made in her life, and the things she didn’t do that she now wishes she did. Watching her Mom deteriorate and die brought her own mortality to the forefront. Now she feels her life is almost over, and she must rush to make changes. There were very few issues brought up of discontent with me, or her life in general, before Mom’s passing, and certainly not any nagging. The more I analyzed it, the more everything points to her going through a MLC. Of course I wasn’t perfect, and need to improve myself, but there is no way she can justifiably blame me for everything she’s unhappy about now.
There were a few other small items mentioned that were quickly corrected by me in short order. She notices, but probably isn't sure my changes will stick.
Quote:
Is this about her or you? She left you remember? So unfortunately for the time being it has to be about her needs and what she wants.
I agree it has to be about her needs, and that’s how I’ve been approaching things as I move forward. I understand I can’t pressure her in any way, but on the other hand I'm afraid if I back off too much, we will only lose our connection and drift further apart.
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With your W confiding in you (which you think) is like her talking to a girlfriend. There's a difference between a best friend and a lover.
Agreed! This is what I’m trying to change!
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What have you done so far in terms of GAL?
I run a small martial arts class in my home every week. I joined a weekly meditation group. I still do other physical training. I go out with friends more often than before. I have taken two courses at the local community college, and I’ve been reading books and the forums like crazy. Maybe even too much for my own good.
Thanks for listening.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Her saying this...“I feel like I’m driving the boat” “you’re a boy, not a man” and “I want someone to show me the world”
is not what you think or at least not entirely.
Yes she's been running the M, but most importantly she wanted you to take charge. Of the household, of the bedroom all of it. She wants to go back to the way the M was before when there was the unknown and nothing but you leading the way.
Is your W the adventuresome type? Time to shake things up a little. She sounds bored and wants a change from the status quo. Do the two of you enjoy travelling? How about trying something new? You can start off small. The two of you are still living together which means you share meals. When the two of you are out running an errand together, how about spontaneously go to a restaurant neither of you had been to before. Try something new to shake things up.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
No, but that is starting to change. Because of her childhood experience she had low self esteem and was always afraid of being judged as a failure, so she avoided social interaction or trying new things as much as possible. She was always very critical of herself and would easily get discouraged and give up if things didn’t go quite right. Then she would avoid those situations even more in the future. I’ve always supported her and tried to build up her confidence, with very limited success. Early on we started doing everything together, and didn’t spend much time with others. This allowed her to remain in her comfort zone. (and I now see allowed her to fall out of love with me) Now she is starting to do more stuff, but doesn’t want me to join her. She wants to be independent and "discover who she is".
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Time to shake things up a little.
Agreed. But it's hard because now when we do spend time together things feel awkward, as neither of us are as comfortable around each other as we used to be. I want to show her the world, but she's backing off. Recently, I planned a boat tour for us to go on together. Her concern was "I don't know what we would talk about for that long"
The way I understand it, people in a MLC are searching for meaning and purpose in their life, and until they find it they will remain unfulfilled.
What are the odds that we can turn this around and be lovers again? The long running stories in the MLC forum sure don’t seem to offer much hope. I'm 8 months in now. Thanks.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
You do understand that if this is MLC that it could last a number of years. You say you've read alot of the literature. Have you actually practiced and understood them?
As I said before ... She sounds bored and wants a change from the status quo. Do the two of you enjoy travelling? How about trying something new? You can start off small. The two of you are still living together which means you share meals. When the two of you are out running an errand together, how about spontaneously go to a restaurant neither of you had been to before. Try something new to shake things up.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
You do understand that if this is MLC that it could last a number of years. You say you've read alot of the literature. Have you actually practiced and understood them?
Yes, yes and yes.
Last weekend I asked for what I wanted. (step #3, DR) Told her I would like it if we had more physical contact. Nothing big, I said, just hold hands, scratch backs, brush hair, maybe a hug here or there. She said "I can't do that, and you know why". I asked her why, and she was reluctant to answer, but I (foolishly?) pressed her and she eventually dropped the whole "I'm not attracted to you" bomb again. As the discussion progressed, she started to fire up and brought up all kinds of reasons she was done with us. Knowing much of this was rationalization and rewriting of history, I was getting quite upset and decided it was best to no longer hold back. (brave, I know)
"At least half of this situation is your fault too. If you truly were not in love with me all this time why didn't you ever say anything? Why did you just keep it inside you for years and act like everything was ok?" Her eyes lit up as I let loose. She started to meekly offer an excuse, but I didn't give her a chance to continue until I was done.
The rest of that night was uneventful, but the days following actually seemed like we made some progress. No, she didn't agree to more contact, (I didn't expect she would, but I decided I had to tell her what I needed anyway) but I am feeling more respected. She always let me know if she was staying late at work or going out with her girlfriends, but this week she asked me. Also left the house with her ring on, which was something I mentioned I liked a few days earlier.
Eye contact while talking has noticeably picked up too, and when I was lying on the bed naked after my shower today, she came and talked to me without as much apprehension or eye aversion as she had previously. Let the monitoring continue, but I think our lack of arguments over the years may have been a problem.
Last night I joined a Zumba class that was offered at my work. I was the only guy to show up, and when I did all the ladies cheered! I also discussed the possibility of running a martial arts class on site with the HR person in charge of these events.
M: A really long time. Crisis: 5 years. She's still worth it.
Life is never made unbearable by circumstances, but only by lack of meaning and purpose. -Viktor Frankl
Last weekend I asked for what I wanted. (step #3, DR) Told her I would like it if we had more physical contact. Nothing big, I said, just hold hands, scratch backs, brush hair, maybe a hug here or there.
That's where that (step #3) should have ended. It doesn't say, "ask for what you want and then negotiate how it might work")
Originally Posted By: ForeverYoung
She said "I can't do that, and you know why". I asked her why, and she was reluctant to answer, but I (foolishly?) pressed her and she eventually dropped the whole "I'm not attracted to you" bomb again.
What you can take away from this is, asking for what you wanted felt like pressure to your W. Again, once she indicated she "can't" (which is code for "I don't know what I want, please stop pressuring me"), there really was nothing more that you needed to do, in regards to step #3.
At that time, you move forward to step #4, avoiding cheeseless tunnels. That being, stop trying to get what you want because that's not working.
So then you move to step #5, which is experimenting and monitoring results. This includes 180s, acting "as if", doing something different... or even doing nothing...
What do you think the "positive results" between the two of you was caused by? Who do you think initiated the positive results, and why?
