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Hi all,

I've been posting over at talkaboutmarriage forums but whilst those guys are great sometimes they aren't the most positive.
My wife (Me:37, W:34, 3 years married, 7 years together, no kids) dropped the bomb on 18th may after a stupid (on my behalf) repeating argument we had been having about her family. At the start of May I thought we were doing well as a couple. We were trying for a family (even though she didn't want to she was doing it for me) so she had come off the long term injection, had lost loads of weight and was really happy. We had just been to a 3 michelin star restaurant and joked about how miserable the couple next to us were and life seemed good.

Then a few days later her period was late and she flipped out. She didn't want kids ever, she would have an abortion if she could but wouldn't as it was mine. Turned out to be a false alarm but she then said she wanted to see her family for a christening. I didn't really want to go so she said it would be ok if I stayed at home. I escalated it, threw it all back in her face (including the abortion comment) and we barely spoke for two weeks after. I decided to make the first move and prepared a nice dinner for friday night. She rang to say she was just going for a few drinks with work, so I said ok, I'll put dinner on later and she said no don't worry I'll come home.

Before I could even plate up she dropped the bomb, IDLY & we should separate. I paniced, I begged, I apologised, I got angry, I demanded she left immediately (I was not violent in any way and have never been but I was shouting). Eventually her dad who was on the phone at this point called the police and she was escorted away. I've since found out she stayed at some friends and she is now in a flat back in the city.

We spoke on the phone a few days later and she said she needed time to think. Two weeks later we met for coffee (I did not contact her in this time as she asked). I was really hopeful, had practically run to councilling to start sorting my issues out, lost loads of weight by being in the gym etc and then we started talking and she just vented at me for 2 hours solid.

The grass is greener without me, she feels young again, she has all these opportunities now she doesn't have to worry about me, I can never change, she will always have to worry about me and her family. A letter I wrote pointing out good times angered her (emotional blackmail). Things have always been slightly wrong. She can now work 12 hour days and is loving her job. We don't approach problems the same way. She wants to sell the house, draw a line under things and whilst there is no one else now (she got quite angry about this when I asked) and won't be for a long time (several reasons but she wouldn't tell me what they were) we should be allowed to move on and it shouldn't be bad. Lots of MLC sounding things. She demanded I apologised for making her leave even though she said she hadn't intended to return that night anyway. I listened, said I understood, apologised a lot, didn't defend myself even though she was really hurting me and said she had to do what she thought was right.

We then walked back to my car and had a really nice chat about how things were family-wise, work, as if nothing had actually happened at all! She thanked me for being so nice about it all and then hugged me goodbye.
Yesterday, I left her a phone message with details of our cable TV online service so she can watch TV because she doesn't have one in her flat. She rang back but I missed it...
I am absolutely in pieces. I've read DR cover to cover three times. I'm desperately trying to GAL, I'm learning to sail next week, I've been to shows, I'm as fit as I've been for 15 years. I've been contacting old friends. The thing is I can't focus at work at all though as all I can concentrate on is how to stay in touch with her once the house has gone. We don't have mutual friends, we work in different parts of town and I just don't think a 180 is going to work in this situation at all. She'll probably just take it as if I'm sulking or am happy about the situation. I desperately want to get our marriage back and build a better one. I'm just scared to contact her in case I annoy her. Can anyone give me some advice?

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mab1 Offline OP
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I also forgot to put that she had only spent one week deciding prior to bomb dropping. She had told noone except her mum two days before. She had no plan as to what she would do after.
Am really struggling with the no boundaries demand she has made. I don't know how to deal with it and am scared to contact her just in case I make things even worse

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Mab1 very sorry u find yourself here but it is a great place to be in this sitch. You will get diffident opines and suggestions. Everyone means well and wants u to save your marriage. Sojetimes u will get conflicting ideas. Some did not save their m but they are successful. Give this time. I've been here a year and it has save my sanity. So post often.

Homework next. Have u read DR? If not above on the beginners threat dbmodso ingeniously poste Sandis 37 rule. Start with them until you get he book.?


M 53
D 20
Separated 6/22/11 moved out 10/24
Together 26 yrs
Married 16
W Filed for D 7/21/11
Served 9/6/11
D final 8/28/12

“Failure is not fatal, but failure to change might be.”

John Wooden





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mab1 Offline OP
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Yeah, DR was one of the first books I bought and its become daily reading. My biggest concern at moment is that if everything about me is wrong in her eyes then going dark or a 180/lr will be wrong too. Plus the longer i leave her alone the more she (and annoying mum/single friends) will convince her she has done the right thing. Our marriage had become stale but how can i show her change if we are separated? Am thinking of asking her to go to a music festival as a surprise when I get back from learning to . What do you guys think?

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mab1 Offline OP
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Went to see my IC today. Sounds like I have some serious issues which have added to the relationship break down. Being Mr Nice Guy not being the least of them. If this is so, how do I know whether this marriage is actually worth fighting for? I know I don't want to divorce but why am I clinging onto a reality that doesn't exist any more?
Is this where I want to get to? Do you have to totally give up/let go before things can progress? Or do you have to keep a tiny bit of hope alive whilst almost completely letting go?

The IC has made me have to take begin taking stock of everything I believe in and now I've realised that I can now see that she is going through the same process. The difference being that her taking stock involved (I think)having a MLC and detaching from me in order to pursue a fantasy world and mine involves trying to grow as a person with or without her in my life. How is it possible to keep it all together when both people are so in flux?

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mab1,

Welcome to the Divorce Busting Forum -- take a deep breath! First some basics: you can turn this around, but it will not be easy, and it will not be fast, in fact, it will be the hardest thing you've ever done and it will take 10x longer than you're probably thinking it might. The first thing to do is decide if you're "in" for that level of effort and that amount of patience. If not, that's OK, only you can decide, it takes a "gut check" about what you really want.

Here are some facts -- although your W only "spent one week deciding" prior to dropping the bomb, I guarantee you she was unhappy and felt trapped for a LONG time. She was wrestling with a situation where her needs were not being met and she didn't know what to do about it. Leaving a relationship is scary -- stereotypically women value security, and leaving is giving up a lot of security. Therefore, to leave, things had to be REALLY bad for her, this was not a spur of the moment decision despite how it may seem.

Why am I telling you this? To set your expectations -- you and your W have "trained" each other over the course of your relationship about what to expect from each other. She feels she knows you better than you know yourself, and knows exactly how you think about things and what to expect from you, and those things weren't working for her.

You cannot change those impressions and learnings quickly, physiologically, it has actually created neural pathways in her brain. To change them requires retraining, and retraining requires time and repetition -- a lot of time and repetition.

So what do you do?

First, your W wants space right now. Despite how impossibly painful it feels, and how counterintuitive it seems, you must give her the space she wants. What does that mean? Do NOT pursue her in any way -- don't make overtures, don't discuss your relationship, don't send her letters, don't call, don't e-mail, don't text. For now, leave her alone. If she wants to talk to you, she knows where to find you. Ironically, the strongest thing you can do right now is to step back.

This is very hard for someone in your situation to do, so let me explain why it's important:

Your wife wants space -- pretend she wants to be separated from you by eight feet. When you pursue her, you threaten to reduce that distance, the only choice you give her is to move farther away -- to retreat more -- to protect the eight feet of space. The further you push her away, the farther she'll need to come back later, and every inch will be hard won.

Now, if instead of pursuing her, you move in the OPPOSITE direction, increasing the distance to TEN feet, you give her EXTRA room, or 2 feet that she can move back toward you while still remaining comfortable, and moving toward you is what you want.

Please read this carefully -- pursuing never, ever works -- NEVER. You will not read one case where someone "convinced" their spouse to come back by arguing, begging, pleading, buying gifts, or enlisting the help of their spouse's family. The ONLY thing that has a chance of working is giving your wife what she wants right now, which is space.

The second thing that you must do is work on yourself -- you must find a path to being a husband that only a fool would leave. What does that mean? As the book says, consider your W's complaints about you seriously and do a 180 on them. Whatever she predicts you'll do that bothers her, do the opposite. You have to make her WONDER if her preconceived notions about you are true, or if she has you wrong. To convince her, you cannot TELL her, you have to SHOW her, through action, and you need to repeat positive behavior again and again and again. She will be skeptical and slow to believe, so you must be consistent.

That's a lot for tonight, but I'll give you more more piece of advice -- your situation right now is fragile as I'm sure you can appreciate. Your W believes that your vision of marriage and hers are not aligned -- that you want things she does not want, and that your demands are putting her in a no-win situation. Don't make MORE demands!

Everything you do in the near future should be measured against a yardstick of "resentment" -- will this action, conversation, facial expression, etc create MORE resentment, or LESS? Your goal is not to make things worse! What will make your wife resent you?

-- NOT giving her space, by pursuing
-- Making her responsible for your feelings, by telling her how sad she's making you, or demonstrating that by being sad around her
-- Chastising or scolding her, telling her she's wrong
-- Enlisting the help of HER family or friends to argue on your behalf

You need to stay away from all that.

YOU can turn this around, but you need to start by taking a hard look at YOU, educating yourself, and making yourself a better person and a better marriage partner -- that will serve you well no matter what happens with your wife.

If you've read DR, I recommend the following;

"The Five Love Languages"
"How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It"

Read those two.

Deep breath mab1, things WILL get better

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
In a New Relationship: 3/2015
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Accuracy, that post was stunning. Bless you for taking the time to help. Mab, her words are gold. Take them seriously and have hope. Take care.

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mab1 Offline OP
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OK, interesting update. I rang to tell her that she had a parcel and an official looking letter had arrived. I then asked whether she was ok. At that point she started crying and said she'd had a terrible week. She was saying that she couldn't cope with work any more, that she knew she was acting weird (I resisted the urge to say 'huh, you noticed too eh?' at this point) and she missed talking to me. Her friends and family were all supportive but they weren't helping her. Basically, it all sounded a bit like she was starting to realise this wasn't some teenage boyfriend/girlfriend thing but was real. She admitted the child commitment issue had freaked her out. I did point out that being married was a commitment as well which she took well. Turns out she had done something similar in a previous relationship when her boyfriend was going to propose she bolted. I pointed out that this was quite a lot different but didn't push anything.
I told her that I understood this would take time and that I thought if we could resume the relationship we would have to get some counselling and that she can't move back in any time soon. She agreed, said she has booked appointments to see flats for the weekend but that she now doesn't want to sell the house. She also said she is struggling to interact with people and is going to buy a cat. So she has gone from totally focussed workaholic to aspiring cat lady in 4 days!

She told me she couldn't remember being single for any length of time, now she realised why (because she was very unhappy) but is challenging herself to deal with it on her own. As such I have no idea where I stand. She obviously wants my support because she sounded loads better after talking to me but she is completely confused as to the future. Throw in some commitment issues and I'm left in a really tough spot. I also think there may be a hormonal imbalance from coming off her birth control but have no evidence at all to support this and am reluctant to say anything.

She is going to see her own IC but said the MC was too soon.
Basically, she wants to be married, but also be independant and will only reconnect when she is happy with herself. Cake eating I think. She was at particular pains to point out how there was definitely no one else, that I'd misunderstood about the removal of boundaries in the marriage (I'm sure she's gaslighting there). She said she could see us starting again through dating.
So maybe the fog is starting to clear? However, I'm not sure she's got any clue as to my feelings in all this. I'm determined not to be her caretaker anymore. I also have to really think whether I can cope with this sort of breakdown on a regular basis. It sounds like she needs a lot of help but at least she is starting to realise it.

We had a good chat after all this and there was a little flirting going on but I thought it may be a bit much and said I should go. I'm a bit concerned I may have given her too much support? After all my goal is to save my marriage, not to give her an emotional crutch to lean on whilst she splits us apart. She's supposed to be coming round on sunday to collect her mail. Any advice?

I think I may well keep GALing and keeping up a 180 for now as this will be going on for a while I think. Tonight is a New Orleans blues band, I've got sailing next week, then some japanese taiko drumming on Wednesday and I just booked an hour in a flight simulator!

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Great post, Accuray. I'm copying this one and putting it in my collection to be read again and again!

Have courage, mab1! This is a great place to get support and help!


Me54/H47
'08 H is "done"
March '12 H moved out
Brink of D, December '12
2014 totally reconciled!
......
"I firmly believe in the...absolute possibility of marriage renewal."
Jim Conway
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