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Continuing from part 6

Okay, so my answers to my questions.

Why would that stand out for me? What does that mean? That I really am not comfortable getting close to him.
Do I really hate him that much? No, it isn't hate, it's fear.
Is my sadness and desire about the M really about the M and not about him/us? No, it is about us, about what I believe a R between man and wife should be.
Maybe I just really don't want to salvage my M. No, I do want to, I don't know that I believe it can be.
Maybe I just really don't love him anymore. I do.
Maybe I don't have any other answer to my H's email because there is nothing that can be done. Maybe.
Maybe it was over a long time ago and I'm only trying to revive it because we're still legal, and I don't want to be carrying his dead-weight. I still want the happy M, maybe it was over a long time ago.
Maybe that's why none of the suggestions are setting well with me, because I just don't want to. I really don't want to.

I do want to be happy. I find I'm happiest when I'm not around H. Why is that? Because he isn't a safe person for me. When he's not around, I can be me without condemnation, without the imposition of his thoughts and feelings over mine. I can stretch and breathe.
If it's something about ME, then why am I happiest when I'm not around HIM? Because I'm safe with me.
What is wrong about me that only comes out when I'm around him? I do not feel safe around him.
Where does "it" go when he's not there? The lack of safety goes with him.
Why don't I find the same dissatisfaction/unhappiness in my other R's? I feel safe around other people. Other people haven't proven to be unsafe for me.
Why does my generally happy self disappear when I get with him? Because I'm afraid.
Do I just dislike him to my core being and that taints everything? Not dislike, fear. And it does taint everything.

I recognize that I'm a sensitive person. Am I too sensitive? I don't think so. I've certainly weathered some painful exchanges here, with grace and dignity I believe. Yet I'm still here, still listening, still trying. I've also had incidents with friends, but a few incidents don't define someone as unsafe.

I've had this note on my laptop for months. It really struck a chord with me back then. Curious how it's tying in with this post as well:
Quote:
When a spouse walks away, it isn't usually a spur of the moment decision. The groundwork for her desire to be out of the relationship was laid bit by bit over many years.

She started out trusting you and believing in you. She started out knowing that you would love her and desire her presence in your life.

As the years went by and she found out time and again that what she believed was in fact not true...well...it changes people inside. She didn't wake up one morning and decide to go. She talked herself in to this being her only suitable response to life with you.

It boils down to the fact that I trusted H, fully and deeply, and he has hurt me in every imaginable way, repeatedly. There is no longer anything that I could unequivocally state about him, about what he would or would not do morally or ethically. I almost feel like I don't even know him, certainly not from the man he claims.

I have stripped my needs of him to be nothing more than basic courtesy and respect, the same thing he would freely offer to a perfect stranger, yet that seems too much to ask. I want to rebuild trust, but he seems incapable of accommodating the simplest request (eg. not eating food off of my plate.) If I can't trust him with the simple things, how can I possibly trust him again with my heart? My H isn't acting like an LBS. He isn't doing any 180's. He isn't listening and affirming what I say and validating my feelings. He defends his actions and discounts my feelings instead.

How does one build a R without trust? How does one build trust when it is continually broken? How does one rebuild trust when the other person really isn't doing anything to try?

I can't extend myself, I can't invest, because I'm too afraid to try, too afraid of getting hurt yet again. Too afraid of losing myself completely and becoming nothing more than a shadow of H, because the only thoughts and feelings I'm allowed to have are ones that match his. I've already lost so much of myself, I've only just begun to find me again, and I'm afraid if I go back to investing again, I'll sink back into that depression that I just climbed my way out of. I can't do that again, because if I do, it will literally be the death of me. And I am much more afraid of that than I am of H walking away.


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wow, crazyville - you're still the WAS here?

and because your've read this board and possibly the books, you're EXPECTING your h to be the LBS and follow all the stuff - do the 180's etc

i thought you HAD BEEN the WAS and now he was the WAS

i think there are two WAS's here - both you and him.

your quote that you've had for months - reading it everyday - you've kept the WAS idea and mentality completely alive in your mind and stuck to it, and still tried to "work on your marriage"

it's okay , if that is really how you clearly feel, and that you have to find out for yourself.

what i hear from your post, isn't that you really want to walk away - what i hear is that you are hurting really bad and looking to your h to make it better.

there's co-dependency there and the first thing you have to work on is realizing fully that h is not responsible for your happiness, you are, and all his actions do not need to extract a huge emotional response from you.

sounds more and more to me as if you really do need to go talk to a professional that can help you see these things and put them into perspective.

i hope sincerely that you can do that for yourself

zig


me 46 H 38
M10yrs T 11
S10
BD ow 8/11
h filed 9/25/12


"if i could define enlightenment briefly, i would say it is the quiet acceptance of what is"

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You seem to be ok with your level of sensitivity but I wonder how he has hurt you in every imaginable way so that you feel so unsafe with him that he is now the epitome of unsafe-ness to you, while other people get the benefit of the doubt. This seems so extreme that I think there's a component of your own emotional stability that is playing a role.

For example, why are you constantly devastated that he eats off your plate? Why not just deal with his habit? Why read more into it? I know you will be able to say why, but really, ultimately, does it matter? Can you let that go and just a) not go to restaurants with him, b) not sit next to him, c) slide your plate away or cover it when you see him reaching out, lovingly reminding him of your need for food privacy. It is your need you're trying to meet, not his behavior you're trying to control. Why does this become such a violation to you?

You have demonized him to the point where it seems like it's not all him, part of it is possibly going on within you.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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CV,

I like what you wrote, it's very genuine and honest, and I "get it". Honestly previously I was seeing the anger and frustration without the pain and fear, and it's the pain and fear that make so much of your sitch make sense.

My MC, as you know, told me that my W doesn't feel safe in our marriage either. How am I to feel about that? What am I doing exactly to make her situation unsafe? When you think about someone feeling unsafe, I think you right away assume they are the victim of abuse -- but I don't abuse my W, so why does she feel unsafe? In my case, it was a combination of her innate feelings of inadequacy, coupled with my expectations, both real and imagined, that lead her to believe that nothing she could do would be good enough, and therefore she just doesn't try.

I honestly believe your H doesn't feel safe either, so you are on two sides of the same issue.

I obviously don't have answers for you, the problem is not easily solved.

I can tell you that I ran across an author who kind of specializes in this "unsafe" dynamic and maybe her books can help.

The author is Mira Kirshenbaum and two of the books that might be worth a read are:

"I love you but I don't trust you"
"Too good to leave, too bad to stay"
and
"Our love is too good to feel so bad"

Maybe check those out, see if any resonate with you, and if there is any guidance there that may be of value.

Accuray


Married 18, Together 20, Now Divorced
M: 48, W: 50, D: 18, S: 16, D: 12
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 7/13/11
Start Reconcile: 8/15/11
Bomb Dropped (EA, D): 5/1/2014 (Divorced)
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I don't know how to respond to anyone's posts without being told I'm being argumentative.

So applying SBT, can someone please answer the following questions:
How does one build a R without trust? How does one build trust when it is continually broken? How does one rebuild trust when the other person really isn't doing anything to try?


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One starts with oneself, with learning why they have trouble trusting, and becoming emotionally independent so their happiness is internal. JMO.


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Hi CV,

I admire your courage in being honest and posting here.

I wish that my W had that type of courage, to ask the questions you are asking, instead of just running away.

I love what Accuracy said about feeling safe. I did not read your whole thread, but do you think that might be what is going on? you both feel unsafe and thus, no one takes the risk to love?

thank you again for your openness..


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Pardon my density. No surprise I'm sure.

Could you play out a hypothetical example of what you're suggesting .... say, if you were speaking to someone else about the same trust issue, and their spouse was being unfaithful?


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That's a good question. I'll use me as an example.

My H is or may be being unfaithful, regardless he is acting very cold and is not coming home nights, has said he doesn't love me and doesn't want to be with me. So what do I do to rebuild a relationship when there is no trust, how do I build trust when it is continually broken, and how do I rebuild trust when the other person isn't doing anything to try?

I tell myself, focus on yourself. I look hard at how I've become in the marriage and I work on that, I stop looking at him and I give him space and more space. We're not at the point where I would work on him and is problems. I'm working on being a happy person in the middle of a rotten situation. I'm working on finding joy inside instead of absorbing low self-esteem and low value from my H. I'm working on why I was so emotionally reactive to him, and I'm working on handling each opportunity with him better and better. I'm analyzing how he pushes my buttons and what I do in response and whether that helped me or not.

I'm using this experience with him to propel me in self-exploration and self-improvement. I may end up with him, or I may end up without him, but I already know how to set and negotiate boundaries with him and I'm already more happy from within than miserable from outside. I'm already going to be a better partner later on.

I could be focusing (ok sometimes I am) on how he said something mean or how he isn't there for the kids, or how thoughtless he is about me, or how his hair is thinning, or he sees my clothes on the floor but not his. I'm trying to think of my parallels to your 'eating food off the plate.' But right now he isn't even interested in appealing to me so my focus is on me.

It is a win-win. I end up married and healthier or divorced and healthier. That's what I'd like for you, and that's what I would advise someone else. Also, I would encourage you to be strong and face the 2x4s because it helps you to bounce your thoughts off others. We're not all here to agree with each other, necessarily. Hang in there & be tough! Best regards,


Adinva 51, S20, S18
M24 total
6/15/11-12/1/12 From IDLY to H moving out
9/15/15-3/7/17 From negotiating SA to final D at age 50
5/8/17-now: New relationship with an old friend
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Happiness is a warm puppy.
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Originally Posted By: adinva
That's a good question. I'll use me as an example.

My H is or may be being unfaithful, regardless he is acting very cold and is not coming home nights, has said he doesn't love me and doesn't want to be with me. So what do I do to rebuild a relationship when there is no trust, how do I build trust when it is continually broken, and how do I rebuild trust when the other person isn't doing anything to try?

I tell myself, focus on yourself. I look hard at how I've become in the marriage and I work on that, I stop looking at him and I give him space and more space. We're not at the point where I would work on him and is problems. I'm working on being a happy person in the middle of a rotten situation. I'm working on finding joy inside instead of absorbing low self-esteem and low value from my H. I'm working on why I was so emotionally reactive to him, and I'm working on handling each opportunity with him better and better. I'm analyzing how he pushes my buttons and what I do in response and whether that helped me or not.

I'm using this experience with him to propel me in self-exploration and self-improvement. I may end up with him, or I may end up without him, but I already know how to set and negotiate boundaries with him and I'm already more happy from within than miserable from outside. I'm already going to be a better partner later on.

I could be focusing (ok sometimes I am) on how he said something mean or how he isn't there for the kids, or how thoughtless he is about me, or how his hair is thinning, or he sees my clothes on the floor but not his. I'm trying to think of my parallels to your 'eating food off the plate.' But right now he isn't even interested in appealing to me so my focus is on me.

It is a win-win. I end up married and healthier or divorced and healthier. That's what I'd like for you, and that's what I would advise someone else. Also, I would encourage you to be strong and face the 2x4s because it helps you to bounce your thoughts off others. We're not all here to agree with each other, necessarily. Hang in there & be tough! Best regards,


This is golden. Thank you so much for this. It is all about us trying to survive and become the better person.


AT BD: WH 41, J 43; Bomb 2/5/2012
Two kids, one dog
D Final 6/18/14
J marries OW 1/24/15
"No matter where you go, there you are"
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